1 10 18 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/c6e6e039fa2e63eb99318b3e3224a102.jpeg 3de3f6acae74084ef2a291834e526c2c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/ebd1aac58bd71decc5144562bf6354d2.m4a ce5530381a7bceae723f391c1d114945 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. URL <strong>http://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/viewer/viewer.php?cachefiles=Wasyliw.xml</strong> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website http://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=Wasyliw.xml OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=ZenonWasyliw.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Zenon Wasyliw Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dillon Eggleston and Grace Palumbo Biographical Text Zenon Wasyliw is a professor of History at Ithaca College. He is a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church here in Johnson City, New York. Both of his parents emigrated from Ukraine at the end of World War II after his father had been offered a position in the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Binghamton as a choir director. He and his wife live together in Ithaca, and make the hour long drive to Johnson City each week to attend mass, although his wife is not of Ukrainian descent. He has traveled to Ukraine and Russia multiple times to tour the hometowns of his parents and do dissertation work at Kiev University. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 54:15 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Language English Subject LCSH Wasyliw, Zenon. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Culture; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Soviet Union; Ethnicity; Historians ; Ukrainian Orthodox Church; Ukrainian Catholic Church; Ethnic identity Digital Publisher Binghamton University Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Zenon Wasyliw Interviewed by: Grace Palumbo and Dillon Eggelston Transcriber: Grace Palumbo and Dillon Eggelston Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 12:00 pm Interview Setting: St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Dillon Eggleston: Good afternoon, it's Sunday April 10th, 2016. I'm Dillon Eggleston. Grace Palumbo: And I'm Grace Palumbo. DE: And we're interviewing -- Zenon Wasyliw: Zenon Wasyliw, or Zenon Wasyliw. DE: And we're at Saint John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Johnson City, New York and we'd like to begin our interview. So Professor Wasyliw, could you tell us when and where you were born? ZW: I was born not far from here on the north side of Johnson City. My parents came from Ukraine. DE: Can you tell us where in the Ukraine your family comes from? ZW: Well my father came from Stryi, which is in the Galician or Halychyna part and my mother came from the Volyn region, which was more in the northern part and that's where the both of them met and actually lived before living is in the Volyn region, in the northern region of Ukraine. GP: When did they come over to the United States? ZW: They came in 1948, along with my brother who was born in 1946. They lost three children before coming here. Two daughters died in a carpet bombing and a son who had died in a refugee camp. And so I'm the American- I was the American in the family because I was born here. DE: Did your family first settle in Binghamton or was this a later move? ZW: No, they first settled in this area. DE: In Johnson City? ZW: Well first in Binghamton, the area of Downs Avenue. And then they worked at Endicott Johnson and bought an Endicott Johnson house, an E.J. house. You've heard of that? DE: Oh yes yes, I had a maternal grandmother who worked for EJ as well. Did your family consider elsewhere before leaving the Ukraine? ZW: What's interesting is, though my dad came from a very poor family, to finish his education he went to a religious seminary but never got ordained. But he made a number of friends who told him they were leaving for the United States and that they would help sponsor him if he ever wanted to leave. And so it happened and they had become priests, Basilian Fathers, and so they filled out the paperwork and he was brought to Binghamton to be a choir director at the Ukrainian Catholic church. And so it was kind of a link of former friends. GP: Did you have any relatives here when your family came over? ZW: No, nope. Almost all the relatives stayed behind in Ukraine. An aunt and uncle did settle in Chicago. DE: You mentioned that your father was at the Ukrainian Catholic church. ZW: Yes. DE: But today we're at an Orthodox Church. ZW: Yes. DE: Can you tell us a little about that? ZW: Sure! You know in Ukraine, even now, it's very pluralistic religiously. You even have three Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdictions. And so my mother was born Ukrainian Orthodox but became Ukrainian Catholic and I grew up in the Ukrainian Catholic church. But there's always this pull, you know, with the Ukrainian Orthodox and I was hired at Ithaca College in 1989 and another lovely person was put into my office who became my wife -you met her in the social hall- and a very good friend of ours, he was the chairperson of the communication department and was also a Greek Orthodox priest. And so we decided to become Eastern Orthodox and it was important to maintain the heritage. And so we joined this parish. But I grew up with friends with both churches. But I kind of like with this parish, how can I put it, it's-- not to be unfair to the other parish, but it's a little less nationalistic and very accepting. I mean you have, most of the parish have, you know, non-Ukrainian spouses. We have people who aren't even of Ukrainian background who are members, the Parish president, Brian Baxendale. So in a way, it was a number of things, a very good friend of ours being an Orthodox priest, but also leaning toward -we had our issues with the Catholic Church too. And granted, and so we joined the parish, and then when our daughter was born in 1995, she was baptized here. And we would take the one-hour drive almost every week, and she went to religious instructions, and it was a very warm and accepting parish. So I don't know if that explains part of it, but yeah I mean, there are other issues too, where you have congregational control of finances, for example and a little bit more of a democratic spirit. But my brother still goes to the other church, I have many friends. DE: Have you visited the Ukraine since your family has come to America? ZW: I have. My area is East European history, Soviet history, and I first went in the summer of 1984 with a group of Canadian educators. And it was the first time, I met all of these distant, even you know, cousins, uncles and aunts, they gave me a very nice welcome. I had never met them before, but I used to write letters to my aunt and uncle in Ukraine. But I have a much larger extended family, and so that was really very, very interesting. But then I returned again in 1986 to do dissertation research and so I was at Moscow State University and Kiev State University. And then I returned in the 90s and 2000s, but to be honest since my mom passed away - my dad passed away '86 and then my mom passed away about ten years ago- I really haven't kept up with the family. DE: Can you tell us what it was like to meet these people for the first time? You had mentioned you had correspondence with them. ZW: Yeah, I had correspondence, more with my mom's side of the family, but less so with my father's. And they all started crying and you know they were us telling stories, it was a rough life. And my mom had actually visited there back in 1977, but you know when she told them about losing three kids and surviving and-- I mean it was. I had one uncle who was in the Soviet Army, who died and never found out where he was. I had another uncle I met, who was in the Red Army, in the Soviet Red Army. He was captured by the Germans, he escaped. He was a part of the French Resistance but then he got arrested because he was in France. But then he was a veteran, and then I had another uncle who fought for Ukrainian liberation. But you know, a number of them were taken away as slave laborers by the Germans as well. But they got me drunk a number of times. So it was interesting, it was more intentional, in 1984, type of stuff so. I should have been better in keeping in touch with them, so. GP: Was it difficult to get there because they were under Soviet rule at the time? ZW: Well, by 1984 things had opened up and I just didn't want to go as a tourist. So I went together with a group of Canadian educators, I was the only American in the group. And it was Ukrainian language and literature seminars in Kiev University, and then traveling around. I was still a member of the other parish and people had thought I'd become, you know, that I'm betraying whatever, but in a way it made a big impact, traveling there. So I learned a lot too and I picked up more of my language and became very fluent and kind of got a real flavor for it. And then in 1986 I was there from 86 into 1987, living in a dorm at Moscow State University, surviving on 350 Rubles a month, and it was after Chernobyl. And so I was in Kiev in December, but I'm glad I did it both times, because now when I teach, I have these great stories for my students. In terms of how my experiences, staying ahead of the authorities when making photocopies of documents or microfilms because I had a faculty mentor, who was from SUNY Albany, whenever I would make copies, he would take them from me and take them to the US embassy. And it would take them for a while to find out what I was photocopying. They would start restricting it and then I would go to another place to make microfilm and stuff like that. And my faculty mentor did the right thing because the materials were sent out by diplomatic pouch, 'because the authorities would never look at the stuff. So it was interesting. DE: Quickly, what was 300 Rubles, how much would that be in today's, do you know? ZW: Well, the problem at the time was, there wasn't stuff to buy using Rubles. But they did have specialty stores, for hard currency, but I didn't want to do it. And you know, to be honest, there were other people who were on an exchange who came from more affluent backgrounds. I was from SUNY, I didn't have, I did not have disposable income and so I tried to live like everyone else did. And so, I survived. In Moscow my uncle and cousin came up and they brought me dried fish and goods and stuff like that, which was an experience, which was nice. But you know, there were people that differentiated by us too. If you were a member of the party you were pretty well off. I made a number of British friends who were doing research, and we found out that one academy of sciences library archive had a good cafeteria. We would go there for lunch, I could go on and on. I tell my students these stories. DE: Do you have a strong sense of Ukrainian identity, despite being in the US and do you feel as though that's a different identity than the Catholic Church, which you mentioned was more nationalistic? ZW: Well, I mean, there are people related, distantly, between the two parishes. You know, I've lived in Ithaca where we're a very progressive community and for example the revolution that took place in Ukraine I see as very, very positive. Because it deals with building a civil society and an identity based on citizenship, not on nationality. And so in Ukraine, you could be Ukrainian background, you could be Russian background, you could be Jewish, you could be Muslim and you're a citizen of Ukraine. And so for me it's really a cultural identity. And you know, the more the merrier. And in a way this parish really represents this because it's more identity based and kind of sharing a culture, you know, if you've looked at the hall, you've looked around here, people are very proud of their heritage. Even though there isn't a strict lineage of Ukrainian, you marry Ukrainian. But to me it's more of a cultural affinity. And my wife is not of Ukrainian background but she really likes the parish, she's a member of the sisterhood, I sing in the choir, can't make it every Sunday. But our daughter, you know, loves this parish. Her name is Victoria, she decided to take her Ukrainian name, Vika, V-I-K-A. She's a third-year student at Northeastern, electrical engineering major. Pat and I are historians, but to her, the identity is really important, and people from the parish send her letters. You know, they give little scholarships for college students from here. And so it's a nice -do you see what I mean? It's beyond just identity, but it's a community, centered around this cultural identity that's still very important to people. GP: How long have you spoken Ukrainian? ZW: Since I was born. It's an interesting situation, where my parents would start talking to me in English, but I refused to speak to them in English. I would speak to them in Ukrainian because to me, I knew that was their native language. And so we had the Giant Market, you remember the Giant Market? DE: Yes. ZW: They would start talking to me in English and I would respond to them in Ukrainian. It was probably why I became a historian, kind of a contrarian type of person. Of course when I was in Ukraine, I really worked on picking up more of the literary language, so I'm pretty fluent in it. GP: Does your daughter speak Ukrainian as well? ZW: Oh she's angry at me that I didn't teach her any. I started to, but you know, she might pick it up. But do you see what I mean, identity is wide open. But you know it also comes up with January seventh is when we celebrate Christmas, Ukrainian Christmas and Easter follows an Eastern Orthodox calendar and you know, we do a number of other traditions as well. DE: What smells remind you of Ukraine? ZW: Cabbage. DE: Cabbage? GP: Cabbage? ZW: Otherwise known as Kapusta. You know it's a very durable food, that and potatoes. Actually when I was living in the dorms, back in the 80s, there was always plenty of cabbage and potatoes, I mean, it's like the Irish. I don't know if you know a little Irish history, they had their famine, and everyone had to leave and they had to deal with the English. And with the Ukrainians it was the same thing, they had this traumatic famine, people had to leave, they had to deal with the Russian Empire. When they made food to sell they do cabbage rolls, and the pierogis out of potatoes. GP: I was reading about that online, looked good. ZW: Well, you should come. GP: How do the cultural values of people in the US seem to differ from those of the Ukraine? ZW: When you have a community like this, there's a sense of watching out for one another and even though, you know, we're not related by blood, there is this feeling of an extended family. And I think that's becoming less and less common in the US. People are kind of more atomized, kind of go off on their own, and so that I think is very nice. And in Ukraine it's more pluralistic and one of my areas of study is sociology of religion and in Ukraine there's Ukrainian Greek Catholic church, there’s a Roman Catholic church, there are three different Ukrainian Orthodox churches, because we argue. I mean, do you see what I mean? It's more fluid. There's a strong Jewish community there. A Muslim community. The fastest growing religion is Mormonism. So, part of it is, because even with Poland, you have the Catholic Church, in Russia it's the Russian Orthodox Church under the Patriarch. And part of the Ukrainian culture is there's this strong identity and feel of attachment, but this kind of, probably why we haven't had political independence as much. Because you kind of have this real diversity of thought and attachment. I hope that makes sense. GP: Yeah. ZW: And in a way Ukrainian Orthodox, Ukrainian Catholic, and there are Ukrainian Protestants in the area too. Pentecostalists. DE: So, you mentioned that your wife wasn't Ukrainian but she's since been accepted into the parish. ZW: Oh very nicely. DE: How has this differed from other marriages that have been within the parish itself? ZW: This parish is very, very welcoming. I think most of the marriages are Ukrainian non-Ukrainian, actually. You read the liturgy; most of it is in English. But people still maintain the other traditions, I think it was a long-term priest here, Father Lawryk and his wife, who really had this "Let's welcome everyone in but share the culture." So, you know, the deacon who was serving today, he's not of Ukrainian background, but he married someone from the parish. And then there's another example, I'm forgetting his name, his last name is Baxter, where as a kid, he kind of he got into trouble and one Ukrainian family kind of adopted him and he started going to dance and rehearsals and everything else. He became a Ukrainian Orthodox priest. Not one little iota of even Ukrainian background. So I mean it's this kind of fluid, more fluid identity, which is nice. But I think looking at community and having shared cultural values, and with this family you have these core families, larger families, and you know attendance can vary. When they all come together at Easter, the place fills up. Hope I'm not giving too long answers. GP and DE: No, no these are the are great. DE: Did your parents have trouble assimilating to American culture when they came over? ZW: Well, in some ways yes, because the parish became the center of their life and you know, my father was the choir director and my mom volunteered a lot with preparing food and raising funds and with organization. But you know, they also had friends beyond the community as well, I think as time went on. And you know with my brother and me, that kind of bring things out, but clearly the focus -you know, what would happen is since many people at Sacred Heart had to leave quickly and many of their relatives stayed behind, you would have a system of Godparents. And so my Godmother, Yechyk, I became closer with that family. My mother was Godmother of Stephan and then my brother had -you see what I'm getting at? There are ways of kind of creating another form of an extended family. They're always going to feel like I'm a member of that parish, which is fine and I still stay in contact with them. So we kind of have this interesting cultural adaptation with Godparents and making those kinds of relations as well. I think in this parish -because this was formed in 1926- you're already getting into fourth generation members and a bit at Sacred Heart. You have a number of people who are interrelated as well but extended families are pretty strong here too. GP: Are there any elements of American culture that you prefer over Ukrainian culture or vice versa? ZW: Well, you know American culture is so different. I've lived in Ithaca since 1989, and we have our own culture there! And so both my wife and I were, Ithaca is a very caring and open-minded community and so that's kind of our view of American Ithaca culture. And I think American culture is changing a bit and even in Ukraine it depends what region of Ukraine you go to you'll find differences as well. What I think is still important is this sense of having some kind of identity, having a community. I mean, when the parish puts on their Ukrainian Days Festival, it's amazing. Everyone just comes together, volunteers, no one gets paid. People come together, they volunteer, their time, the choir sings, there are dancers, you know they make $30,000 to $35,000 to help support the church. And so do you see it's kind of this volunteerism, caring for one another; people aren't really talking American politics here either, because that could be pretty lethal. That's the one thing missing at Ithaca, because you don't have these ethnic communities. There's so many university students. Sometimes we'll go to the Greek Church, but it's nothing like here. And so, in a way, you know, it's very accepting, but still it's nice to have a community and our daughter really benefitted a lot by it. Because you know, coming here every week when my mother was still alive, she got to see her grandmother. But it has this other alternative community that she can look forward to. And her friends don't always understand this. Members of the Sisterhood sent her a box of cookies and wrote her a personal letter, and she put it up on her bulletin board. She says "Look, people care." And so, I think that's a big thing. And you know, the communities can vary in identity, this is a far more assimilated parish because the founders, there are very few people who were born in Ukraine here. Then at Sacred Heart it's a different situation, but even they're kind of adapting and you know they have an English liturgy there too, so it depends. But I'm warped by it, actually I'm a little critical, I don't know if you've ever heard the term "ten square miles surrounded by reality." That's what defines Ithaca, and I just see these bumper stickers. And when you have an Ivy League university and Ithaca College, which is a private university, it kind of brings in a lot of wealth. And you can kind of live this lifestyle, believing you know a lot of stuff being out of touch with the rest of the world. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. And Universities can be real bubbles too. DE: Can you tell us how you and your wife met? ZW: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny because we were both grad students at Binghamton University, but she was Medieval and I did East Europe, so we knew of each other but then, we were both hired at Ithaca College at the same time and put in the same office, [laughter], and it was, in a way, what also happened is a lot of older faculty, but they really liked us. And that's the other kind of thing that there's less of, they would have dinner parties and we would be invited, and as I've mentioned, part of the group was a Greek Orthodox priest who later became a metropolitan, archbishop, but he loved to party. And, you know, we said; well let's have Gus perform the ceremony, so we kind of had our own little group as well. But since he was a good friend of ours, we had the wedding there [in Ithaca]. But there was a priest here, Father Myron, who I would stay in touch with and he kept sending parish bulletins, and when our daughter was to be born we decided, well, you know, we want to give her all of this, and it was the right move. Now, in the mid-1990s, the latter part of the nineties, Ithaca College let go of a bunch of people, and my wife was one of them, but then she got a job at Cornell. She's an assistant dean for admissions and advising, but she does international admissions for the liberal arts school. So she's been to, just last year she's been to India for two weeks, through a full break, Armenia in the fall, Japan in January. She's been to Australia, then China a couple of times, different places in Europe, nice places in Europe. I laugh because, a little over ten years ago, as part of a grant that sent me to less favorable parts of Eastern Europe, not the capitals, but these other places, so we make the commute here, [to this parish], whenever we can. When our daughter was still going to classes here, and my mother was alive, we almost made it every week, but now it's more like once or twice a month. DE: Was your wedding based in Ukrainian culture? ZW: No, it was a Greek Orthodox ceremony in English, though my best man, Mike Lowa, did a few things in Ukrainian. He's belonged to three different parishes, but it was really a very, met a few Ukrainians from Sacred Heart, but it was professors, and family who was there, along with a few faculty members who were there. So, there weren't many [Ukrainians], that wasn't as important to us. It was important to have friends there, and friends performing the ceremony. And we had an open bar. [Laughter]. And it was all in Ithaca, which was neat. GP: Do you think your Ukrainian heritage influenced you to become a historian? ZW: Oh, definitely. You know, I had, because my grandparents were in Ukraine, I had replacement grandparents, and I heard so many stories from them, and they came from different regions of Ukraine. And, my dad and mom would tell a lot of stories, and a lot of people in the community would push for their children to get degrees in engineering, and medicine, and stuff like that, but they just didn't have people who would study history, because what do you do with a degree in history? But I was also thinking of going into high school teaching. Things just kind of-- you know how they can build, you know, here I am at Binghamton, okay, I'll become a history major, I'll get an MAT, though, I went to Harvard summer school when I was a junior, and they said you should keep getting a PhD, you know this stuff really well. And I said, well there so much work in a PhD, so instead I got an MAT to teach high school social studies, and I did that a little bit, but then people said you should keep on going and I got another master’s, and then a PhD. And, in a way, I was trying to look at Ukrainian history form a larger perspective, and it was in the spring of 1989, we were going to Cornell to do some research, and we were passing Ithaca College. I looked to the right and I said, I would like to teach here. Two weeks later, a job opened up, and they hired me. So, it was meant to be. But, I'm always careful. My research was on Ukrainian history, and as when the Soviet Union fell apart, suddenly there weren't many people who knew about this part of the world, because the idea was, well, you study Russian history, because that's the "empire," and you didn't have as many people looking at other parts of the Soviet Union, in part to employability. But at Ithaca College, I really liked it; because I taught a variety of courses and then when they found out I had an MAT, they asked me to coordinate the social studies teacher education program. SO, I have this whole other community. We put out 3-5 people a year, and we have this closed Facebook group of graduates who are social studies teachers or administrators. And I was chair of the history department for six years, and interim director of the gerontology institution. So, I do a lot of different things, and teach different courses, but in a way, being interested in the family past, and trying to make sense of really tragic histories all around, and so, here we are. DE: What was your thesis? ZW: I was planning to do a dissertation on secular rituals, and to replace sacred rituals. But they hired a new dissertation director, and she was Heather's [DeHaan] dissertation advisor at Toronto, but her name was Viola, and what Viola basically said was, well pick a topic on peasants or peasants. And so, I decided to look at the status of the Ukrainian countryside in the 1920s. It was very interesting because, in the 1920s, with the Soviet history, they actually became much more liberal. They didn't have collective farms, and they had a policy of nativization, where they were pushing, and teaching in native languages. And so in was in the 1920s that for the first time-- because during the Russian Empire, they banned Ukrainian-- they had a number of decrees where Ukrainian was not only not to be taught, but it was not even allowed to be written. And so, you could get in trouble. The portrait of the poet Taras Shevchenko on the right, [on the wall of the room], was a serf, and he was, his freedom was bought, and he started writing poetry. He was in St. Petersburg as an artist, but they sent him off to Siberia, and he started writing in Ukrainian. But his Ukrainian became kind of a social history because he wrote about the struggles of everyday people and stuff like that. And he was always repressed, and there was always this pressure on the language. The Ukrainian part that was in Austria, they were allowing for more. But then, in 1921, the Soviet government said, in order to convince people to be Communist, we have to teach them in their native language. And so a decree went out, 'everyone is now going to learn Ukrainian.' They also created a separate Ukrainian republic, Soviet Republic, and you had the first president of Ukraine, independent Ukraine, coming back and the danger was that in the Soviet Union, you had a very strong Ukrainian identity. People were speaking Ukrainian, and so I'm looking at this period where, suddenly, people are speaking in their native language, literacy rates are improving. But on the other hand, they're not taking on a Soviet identity, they're taking on more of the Ukrainian identity. And so, when Stalin takes power in 1928, all of this is just going to be crushed. So, to make a long story short, that's it. The areas that I'm studying, neither of my parents come from really, but I thought it was a good social history. So the challenges to get the voice of the people up, and very often, people didn't write, but it was a period of even Soviet history that was more relaxed, up until Stalin came. GP: What were your parent's experiences in Ukraine, or in the USSR even? ZW: Well, my dad was older, and he was born in what was the Austrian Empire. The memoires of that era were better, but, I mean, it was during the First World War, and as a child he remembers different armies coming and going and coming and going. And then Ukraine became part of Poland, which was kind of difficult, because if you were of Ukrainian background, you kind of couldn't really get jobs. My mother was a bit younger, but he grew up in a city, which was much different. And that probably impacted me too, because you had Poles and Jews living in the city, and so, she never learned how to embroider, she never did the Easter eggs. Do you see what I'm getting at? A lot of this [the culture] is still pretty much a village culture, and so, in a way, I may have been advantaged. My dad came from a very, very poor family, but at the time the Austrian government stated opening up gymnasiums, kind of schools, that carried on, and when it was time to continue the education, it was difficult. With thirteen kids in the family, my father couldn't afford it, and then he found out that you could go to school for free at a religious seminary, and so he went off, and finished his degree there. Then, he studied Latin, among other things. He never became a priest, but kind of came back and was pretty much unemployed. Eventually, he was hired to be a choir director, and stuff like that. When the Soviets came in, because he was literate, he actually got a job, helping edit a newspaper. People around here wouldn't like to hear that, of course, but, you know, there are different stories. Then, they asked him to teach because my father, by this time, knew seven languages. But, there was always this threat, they [the Soviets] would say, 'we know you have a religious background,' and that was always going to hang over his head. So, I think he was able to stay neutral when he was teaching, and then when the Nazis came in, he just stayed teaching in the school there. Aunts and uncles were taken away as forced laborers, Eastern workers, but he hung in there. Towards the end of the war he had to decide, 'do I stay, even though I have these friends in the United States who might sponsor me? Or, do I chance it with the state?' You know, he never held a gun. It's a very unique story, you would laugh. He was in the Soviet army for three days, and they kind of had him take notes on supplies, and then he was in the Polish army for three hours or something. But throughout the entire experience, he never was part of any military, which is very unique, I think. And so, trains were leaving for the West, and they had to decide, and they ended up going. And, they lost two kids in a massive bombardment. They ended up in a refugee camp, and then a son passed away. You know, it kind of reminds me of all of the stuff going on in Syria now. But, sure enough, they got to New York City. His friends from the seminary met him at the boat, at the dock, and then put him on a train to Binghamton. The people here were very nice, very supportive. What was interesting, when I got back in 1984, my aunt was telling me that the Soviet authorities kept bugging her to talk my dad into coming back. I mean, in a way that means he probably wasn't in as much trouble as others. But you know, you couldn't have trusted that. But, my aunt was very outspoken, and she said 'I told them, I wouldn't trust you, you guys are liars!' And her poor husband, who was a veteran, was like 'quiet, quiet, don't say anything like that!' DE: Why didn't your parents stay in New York City? ZW: Because part of my father's justification for coming here, was that they needed a choir director in Binghamton. GP: Did your parents ever go back to Ukraine? ZW: My mother did, in 1977. What happened was, when they got here, my father went to work at Endicott-Johnson, and my mother worked at Don McCarthy shoe factory. Much later, when my father worked in the factory, and he worked second shift, my mom worked first shift, so someone would be home. During dinner breaks, my dad would read books. So one day, his friend said 'Bill, listen.' He went by Bill because my parents were Visil and Maria, and when they got citizenship, they changed it to William and Mary, and my dad went by Bill. They gave me my name because it was very historic. But anyway, his friends would say 'Bill, you can be a teacher,' and towards the end, before he retired, he got certified to teach German and Russian, and he taught for a few years. And that kind of had an impact on my brother and I. My brother is ten years older, but he ended up going to SUNY Cortland, a PE major, but went on to get a PhD in anatomy, and a medical doctor, and just retired from practicing orthopedic surgery in this area. I mean, life is more complex, because you'll say 'oh, first generation college' and whatever else, but it's kind of muddled that way as well. DE: What were the seven languages that your father knew? ZW: Gee, well, we have Ukrainian, Polish, Russian, German, Latin, Greek, and I'm forgetting what other one. Because he knew the Slavic languages, he would've picked that up. But, you know, that would be the thing. There were other like him, who were educated, but in the US, people hear you speak with an accent and they think you're stupid. But that wasn't the case. But it's a nice community here, or at least it was. It's kind of scary when you now have this Islamophobia, and Dearborn, Michigan has a large concentration of Muslims, but they're very assimilated, and acclimated. People would come here because they saw opportunity. It's in Europe that the Muslims weren't as accepted as well. This area has had a lot of refugees come in. But one of the differences is that when my parents came, there was already an established community, and people were helping them out. DE: Have your children been to Ukraine? ZW: No. But at some point. You see, my wife's the good travel organizer, and she's looking to at some point arrange the right time. I have a step-daughter, who's older now and who just got back to Ithaca recently. She has a library science degree she got from Michigan. She was working at SUNY Potsdam and then met a web developer who's at St. Lawrence University. To our great fortune, he got a job at Cornell, and she got a job at Ithaca College as a librarian. Our younger daughter is at Northeastern, and they require three six-month co-ops, and that means she works form January until the end of June. This summer she's off to Italy, taking two four-credit classes. So, it's a matter of timing and money, as to when we'll go there. But, you know, I have a conference in New York, Association for the Study of Nationalities, and my wife has already planned out, there are a number of Ukrainian restaurants. And, you know, we visited the Ukrainian museum, and we support the church as well, so, kind of aligned, but we're not professional Ukrainians. I mean, it's important, but, it's part of our multi-faceted life. GP: What's your favorite Ukrainian recipe? ZW: My wife a great cook, but being in Ithaca, I prefer more vegetarian options, so the cabbage rolls with either rice and mushrooms, or buckwheat kasha. When I was over there, other Americans who were in Russia or Ukraine couldn't handle the buckwheat kasha, and I love that stuff, so I think that's also differentiated. But there's a lot of foods that I like. We had pierogies last night, and what's nice is that, when they make them here, if there's leftover dough, they let people take it home. So my wife made some potato pierogies. But usually I like the sauerkraut filling. DE: Can you tell us about Ukrainian music? ZW: Oh, yeah. It's lyrical. Often, Ukrainian will be compared to Italian. It's a very kind of lyrical language; it's kind of a sing-song language. I sang in the choir in the basses today and, you know, a cappella is the way the liturgy works, and everything is sung. Although at Sacred Heart they recite more often now. But, you know the choral music is nice, the folk music as well. It's a very, very rich musical culture. They had a priest and his wife here for decades, who did a really nice job in terms of all of the folk arts that were here, and putting in a folk choir, and stuff like that. But you know, in Ukraine, they have reggae, Ukrainian reggae, and other types of similar music. I don't' know if you've heard of 'Gogo' or there's another group as well, with very kind of a blend of new age and folk music. So there's a lot of different varieties. But I do admit, I like singing in the bass section of the choir. DE: Would your parents have listened to the reggae Ukrainian music, or was that not around yet? ZW: They didn't know what it was. So, I mean, you hear different musical styles, but I'm a reggae fan, or old music. DE: I think we've got a lot of information so thank you so much. GP: Thank you so much. ZW: You're welcome. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Zenon Wasyliw Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wasyliw, Zenon ; Eggleston, Dillon ; Palumbo, Grace Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Zenon Wasyliw is a professor of History at Ithaca College. He is a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church here in Johnson City, New York. Both of his parents emigrated from Ukraine at the end of World War II after his father had been offered a position in the Ukrainian Catholic Church in Binghamton as a choir director. He and his wife live together in Ithaca, and make the hour long drive to Johnson City each week to attend mass, although his wife is not of Ukrainian descent. He has traveled to Ukraine and Russia multiple times to tour the hometowns of his parents and do dissertation work at Kiev University. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Zenon Wasyliw.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 54:15 Subject The topic of the resource Wasyliw, Zenon. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Culture; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2e59527ded2e9601aee5939924d74b81.mp3 5bd4fad5db616f38e418cced94cc7f69 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Adrianna Watson Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Biographical Text Adrianna Watson is a college student majoring in Law and&nbsp;<span>is a second generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born</span>&nbsp;in Johnson City. She&nbsp;<span>lives in the Southern Tier of New York with her large, extended family.&nbsp;</span> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 71:36 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Watson, Adrianna. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Ukrainian folk dancing; Ukrainian cooking; Summer camps; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=AdriannaWatson.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Ethnicity; College students; Holidays; Binghamton (N.Y.) ; Ukrainian Catholic Church Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. 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Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Oral History Project Interview with: Adrianna Watson Interviewed by: McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Transcriber: McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:00 AM Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) McKenna Hage: OK, so would you mind just stating your name and date of birth where you're from for us? Adrianna Watson: Adriana Watson, Umm1/14/97 and I am from Binghamton New York right here. I am born in JC Wilson Hospital, so right here. MH: And can you just tell us a little about yourself? AW: Yeah, I am a college student at BCC. I actually just changed my major to law, I'm going for to become a lawyer. I am Ukrainian, very proud to be Ukrainian. I come from a huge, huge, huge family [laughs]. Church is basically all my family plus some, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't know what else you wanna know? MH: You said you're proud to be Ukrainian, what are some of the things that you really take pride in and how has it shaped who you are? AW: I take pride in that I can say that I am Ukrainian, that I've been given this so and so freedom, since Russia is always there trying to take over the country and what not. Being an independent from and being an independent country, even though I was not from Ukraine, I am American born, I take-- it is very -- it is very important to me to always share my heritage to everyone, no matter who they are. And I take very much pride because my family rose me Ukrainian. My first language was Ukrainian even though I was American born. So but I am not as fluent as I used to be, but it is still a lot of fun. Holidays always around Ukrainian, Easter is ridiculous, Christmas is even more ridiculous. We have about oh! a good 100 people over at the house. MH: Woo, that's a lot. AW: Yes it is, we have dinner there. We have a whole bunch of the certain meals that we have to eat a certain way and we pull the hair and we tap the spoon on the head with peas and what not, it is a lot of fun. All home-made food, my grandma makes all the food, it is ridiculous and then we go to midnight mass, and then we go to my priest's house with caroling. And it's a lot of fun. Easter is a lot of fun too. I just, my friends have always been, want to know so much about me being Ukrainian just because I am so open about it. I am very open about who I am, where I come from, I like to explain to people. I like to tell people how proud I am to be Ukrainian. Actually, in fourth grade I was in the paper. My teacher saw how proud I am of my heritage, and I was in the paper for it. It was, it was a lot of fun and I've been very open about it and just, it's just been around me my whole life. My whole family, here obviously, is just so into it. So I've grown to be into it as well. MH: Now, when did-- were your parents born here? AW: My parents were born here. My grandmother was born here. My grand-father wasn't. So that's where I am second, I am the second generation and my great-grandparents were or my grandmothers grandparents were born in Ukraine, so that's where I am the third generation, kind of confusing I know, but that's where I am from. MH: What were-- what brought your grandparent over from Ukraine? AW: Which, my grandfather? MH: Yes. AW: Okay, my grandfather because he was in such turmoil in Ukraine, and he was separated from his family when he was very young, at my age around 18/19 years old. He was actually from Ukraine, separated from his family, taken to I believe Germany and that's where he was pretty much raised. So he kind of spoke a lot more German than Ukrainian, because that's where he was living, so then his family was moved to Poland. So my grandparents' family is in Poland right now instead of Ukraine, but they are Ukrainian. Another confusing kind of thing. But then he came over here because Germany was in such turmoil with the World Wars and whatnot so he came over here though I think Parris Island? No not Parris Island, what am I thinking. Ellis Island. My friends are from Parris Island. Ellis Island, I actually went to Ellis Island, his name is there, it's very touching, very cool. It's very cool you know to see your grandfather's' name, he died of cancer but that's another story. So that's how he came over here. My great grandparents came over here I believe to get married. I am not 100% sure because I never met them, and my grandmother just always tells me how wonderful and good people they were. "titka" means "aunt" in Ukrainian by the way, just a Ukrainian term. They were like the first of the church, and brought up through the church and knew the old church so I think that's what they were. They help built it and stuff like that, my grandfather did, my great father did at least. MH: Did your grandfather, since he grew up in and spent a lot of time in Germany, was he still able to maintain his Ukrainian heritage? AW: Yes, oh yes. He came over here and was like we're raising my kids Ukrainian, that is it, end of story. No matter how long he was in Germany, he did teach my mom and my aunts a little German, because you know it better to know more languages, right? So, but he was definitely hardcore Ukrainian just like the rest of my family is. MH: Did he settle right in Binghamton? AW: Oh, yes. He settled right here in Binghamton and that's how he met my grandmother, yeah. MH: Wow. AW: Yeah, yeah. MH: Do you know of any struggles or hardships he might have faced? AW: Oh, man, in Germany? MH: In Germany and here in Binghamton. AW: Okay, in Germany, I know one story my grandmother would always tell me was, he remembered bombs and he remembered being in a ditch for days, because bombs kept going off off and off. And I think that was his last straw to come over here. Over here he met my grandmother right off the bat so they got married rather quickly, and they started having kids. My grandmother was raised on the farm so she was kind of independent, she was the oldest. Very independent, you know, I am my own woman but we're going to get married. They raised four kids, and it was very hard, they were poor, they did not come from wealth at all. So they raised their own name, and through the church- the church really helped bring them, you know- give them family, give them more purpose kind of thing. So religion was very important to them. My grandfather, when he became ill, was when the hardship really happened and my mom was I think nine when he passed. So my grandmother was basically left alone to raise four kids by herself, she had two jobs, so really they came from nothing. They did it! And my uncle is a doctor, my aunt's a nurse, you know, very successful, but they did it. It's- it's amazing how, you know, they came from literally nothing and he came from such distraught and torn away from his family and he comes over here but still had nothing. But family was really important in the Ukrainian heritage, extremely important. I can't even emphasize that enough because without family-- it's just-- It's very prominent. Kevin Hiller: So, what are your favorite kind of family traditions that you have? AW: Oh, I love these, Oh Christmas is just the best time of year, I love Christmas that are just all-around family. We invite everyone over that is family, even non-family you know, we just bring everyone in. Another tradition is making pysanky. I love making pysanky at Easter time; Ukrainian Easter eggs. Ukrainian dancing-was just a lot of fun; I graduated so I kind of had to end that. But it was just a ton of fun. Man, everything about being Ukrainian comes with it, eating food, making paskas, making food, learning how to make food-amazing. Because I get to experience that and not a lot of people do, you know. And I am very grateful for that and I take that to heart for me, because my grandma is passing on her traditions on to me which is amazing, it's just a lot of fun. MH: Do you have any other family stories that really stand out or mean a lot to you as a Ukrainian that you've heard? AW: Oh boy, let me think-- my grandmother, other than being strong, my grandfather coming from absolutely nothing--oh boy. I know a lot of.. Another one of my other cousins Hegoslavka, I think you guys interviewed her. Did you guys interview her? MH: This is my first time-- KH: Yes, this is my first interview too. AW: Oh cool, ok, so another group interviewed her last time, so they might have a little more detail, but she went through hell and back. Excuse my French. But it was, she went through everything. Literally in Ukraine, didn't know where to sleep, didn't know where she was going to eat. She didn't know, she would sell coats, she would wear five or six coats, she would just sell them for money, for anything. She sold everything. She had a whole family she had to provide for, and she did. She did it. I mean through bombing, through raids, through you know witnessing shootings right in front of her eyes. Witnessing her family being killed. It was horrible, but she survived it, again family really is what brought her to America and what really kept her alive- her providing for her family. And her trying everything she can to keep her family alive is- that amazing and it's an amazing story. She's gone through, I don't know, a lot. I only know little snippets because she becomes very emotional obviously talking about it, but ugh, she-- Ukrainian women and men are just so strong, they have been through literally everything. So even as little as going to the doctor and admitting that they need help is just so hard for them because you know they don't want to do it, they're strong, you know what I mean? It's just ugh, it's just amazing, you know, what you're capable of when you are put in those situations. And she did the impossible. She literally came and didn't know where to sleep, slept on the road, slept on different couches, just knocked on doors and just asked to sleep and eat. They ate bread and that was it, another reason why there is bread everywhere [Laughter]. Why we eat so much bread, but yeah, her story is amazing, I only know snippets, but it is an amazing story. MH: Have you ever been to the Ukraine or would you like to visit one day? AW: Oh, I have never been, but I am dying to visit, when, once I graduate college, and get my feet together, I definitely want to travel the world, and my first place would be Ukraine. And Poland because to visit my family. But I have been offered many times to go to Ukraine, money wise, it's hard because I'm only a college student, so you know what it is. [Laughter] But yeah, definitely one day. Definitely. MH: Do you know where in Ukraine your family hailed from, was it rural was it in the city? AW: It was more rural, really, it was villages, umm the villages they came from are not there anymore. So, if I told you, it would be- you'd be like "What? Where?" So, it's more in Western Ukraine, near Poland, that's why Poland was the best route for them, they were more near the border. Kiev, I have family from Kiev, I know people from Kiev, which is the capital. But yeah, more western Ukraine. Southern-Western, something like that, I'm trying to look at that map [points to a map on the wall] but yeah that's where they're pretty much from. MH: Have you ever faced any sort of discrimination being Ukrainian here in Binghamton or was there ever a period where the church came under fire for anything in the community? AW: Umm, I personally, I've experienced some kind of, you know, hesitance for being Ukrainian. To be honest I really- it was an awful situation and someone was like "oh well you're Ukrainian so it doesn't matter what you say". Something kind of like that. That kind of was just a sentence but it kind of was like really? Really? Really? We're in America, we live in such different ethnicity, like come on. But I have, but I still say I'm proud. I don't care what people say, I am Ukrainian, if you don't like it, get on with your life, that's pretty much me. What was your other question? MH: I think you pretty much covered it. But in contrast to that, what are some of the good things that you have experienced? AW: Just reaching out to the people and, you know, connecting to people, you know. I drive down the high way. I've a Tryzub which is the Ukrainian symbol on the back of my car and you know, seeing other people Tryzubs, I honk [Laughter], I say "hey what's up, we were like connected," you know. At BU, I mean BCC, even at BU, I met Ukrainians and stuff like that. There is a lot of Ukrainian out there I didn't know about, I mean they came over from Ukraine and they're starting over at BCC and stuff like that. So, I met a lot people there which is very cool because we connect obviously. I mean I reach out to every Ukrainian I can and I say "oh, you're Ukrainian? Alright, cool, we're new best friends." Like that kind of thing. I've um, I just-- it is just a lot of fun. I go to Ukrainian camp in Ellenville, New York, and I do that my whole life and I've met whole many amazing, amazing friends over there. It is a like a whole new network of friends. Just kinda weird we talk about how my American friends and I met my Ukrainian friends because they're totally different. They really are. How we act together is just totally different, it is a lot of fun. I definitely reach out to other Ukrainians and I definitely, you know, say "Hey, what's up? Let's talk" and stuff like that. Because why not, you know? I mean we're pretty small. I mean Ukraine is pretty desperate and you know not very rich so, might as well reach out to other Ukrainians and see how their life is and see what they've gone through, and what I've gone through and stuff like that. MH: Can you explain how your American friends and Ukrainian friends are different? AW: My American friends, they're very interested but--they are not as religious, and I don't want to put that as how different they are. But they're not as, like, family oriented. Like for example, my one friend, she's an only child, she barely spends time with her family. She's kind of out of the house doing whatever she wants. Me, on the weekends, I am family, 100%, all the time. Literally, I sleep over at her house, eight o'clock in the morning have something to do, always something to do. And so I leave, I go to my family, Ukrainian stuff, obviously, and then church obviously on Sunday, so that's another thing. My Ukrainian friends were very- we're all the same. We're all around family, we're all around religion, we are very--we just kind of act the same too. We have like a different--persona about ourselves, you know what I mean? So, it just, it's just different in that sense of how family means to one another. Not to be like, "Americans don't think family means anything to them", because they do. But it's just the difference of celebrating certain things like holidays and stuff like that. Like how we celebrate Christmas and Easter. You know, my American friends really don't celebrate as in depth as I do. And my Ukrainian friends, we do. Or when we go out, we have zabavas. Zabavas' dances. It's totally different being Ukrainian. All we do is Ukrainian dance. That's it. So Ukrainian dancing is another huge thing that is just different. I polka. I polka and waltz. So, my friends, they're not used to polka-ing or waltzing, so when they come to our zabavas, our dances, they're like "What the heck is this music? This is like from the 1930's". I am like, "It's okay, you just go with it, it is just one two three, you just go". But yeah, it's different in that kind of aspect, just how we live life and stuff like that, which is okay. It's definitely okay. I definitely have a big influence on my American friends' lives and I definitely bring them into my life since it is so different, but I definitely make it work at the same time, so it's a lot of fun. KH: What are some common misconceptions that people might have about Ukraine and what would you like them to know or what people think of the community here in Binghamton? AW: I think sometimes people think that we are too hard headed, that we're too- we don't, I smile a lot because- but I know a lot of people from Ukraine they don't really smile. They don't really want to get to know other people, you just have to let them in. Once you go ahead, and you're in, they are so heartwarming. They're so caring, because they have been through hell and back, excuse my French again. [Laughter] But they're very hard people. They're very hard to read, very hard to crack a smile with. You know, you have my uncles who are from here, they've been through- they have been through it all too and they really sometimes it's like- I'll even be like "Oh, well should I say that? Should I not say that? I don't know what to say", you know what I mean? But once you get to know a Ukrainian, men or women, they are very caring. They will do anything for you because they know what it is like, and they know that if you go through something that they'll help you. I think that's the most- that's hardest thing for other people to get in on with Ukrainians. I smile a lot because that's just my personality. I'm a very open person, very open minded, but a lot of Ukrainians just cut it off and just don't want to get hurt from other people, because they have been. So I think that is the most--yeah. MH: Do you think that's changing all with the younger generations? AW: I do. Me, personally, I do. My generation has been very open and honest. I think it is just the older generation because they did come from Ukraine and did come from just distraught and what not like that. MH: Do you know how the community here in Binghamton has changed since your grandparents and great grandparents immigrated? Do you know how the history has been influenced? AW: We try to keep the history of Ukraine to the history of Ukraine. We know that it's changing. We know that the language is changing, with the new dialects are whatnot. We are considered, what my grandmother likes to say, the "old regime language", which means that sometimes when we communicate with other Ukrainians it is difficult to understand them because they're more, I don't want to say "Russianized" because they are from Eastern Ukraine. They come over here and we're like, "Wait what are you talking about?". So, it's difficult to communicate anymore with other Ukrainians but we still do it, we accept it, we are very open about it because we understand that it's always going to change. The community is changing to be more open minded and more open to other people coming to our heritage. We understand that we can't have all Ukrainians here in this church, we can't have all Ukrainians everywhere. I mean, we're going to marry other people, it's not going to always be Ukrainian. And I mean you just gotta open up and make the community wide. Any, you know, my father's not Ukrainian, he' English. My mom married him, and he came to the church and he considers himself Ukrainian because we're so open about it. We bring 'em in and we're like "Listen, you're part Ukrainian now". He was baptized in this church. Yeah, he was baptized in this church and everything. And he is now a Ukrainian dance teacher, I mean he literally never knew anything Ukrainian a day in his life before my mom, so-- [Laughter] That's a lot of aspect to how it is changing, bringing more people in and trying to introduce our culture to theirs. MH: Do you know what your father really found shocking at first or what he sort of loves most about becoming this new Ukrainian? AW: Family. MH: Family? AW: He really does. I mean, his family, it's not perfect, no family is perfect, but it's very kind of just distraught. They are not very close, they're not very like "Oh, let's hang out every holiday". Our family, doesn't matter what holiday it is. Thanksgiving we have a huge party, big family comes over, everyone comes over. So, I think that is what he really likes the most is how he has made so much family here, that he considers family, even though he's not. He has made so many new friends too, I think that is what he takes much for granted with being Ukrainian and being introduced into the family. It's just family. KH: Was he religious at all before? AW: Yes, he was Christian but he didn't go to church every Sunday like he does now. So that was a big aspect about being baptized, which was huge and amazing and hopefully maybe I'll find someone like that someday because it is hard. It is difficult nowadays. But yeah, he is amazing, he is awesome. MH: You said before that even though this community is more open and changing. Is it still considered more conservative than others? AW: Yes. MH: And in what ways, you know what sort of practices are still rigid in structure? AW: Like religious-wise? MH: Yeah, also culture-wise. AW: Definitely church. Going to church on time. Being there every Sunday. Going for holidays and stuff like that. We go for every holiday. Thanksgiving eve. We go to church. It's a big thing. It's huge for our family to be at church on time and to be there every Sunday, every holiday. It's good though, it really is. It brings up a lot of things. It is conservative, it brings up a lot of morality wise and stuff like that. It teaches you a different side of what other people are thinking or whatever. It's really good to be on both sides, because I've seen both sides. I understand both sides. My dad's and my mom's. I think that church really what makes us that way. MH: Do you know when your great-grandparents immigrated, what their immigration experience was like? AW: My great grandparents, I think they also came through Ellis Island, I believe so- either that or they came on a boat, I'm not sure. But their experience was very hard. It was extremely difficult. It was not easy coming over here from nothing, from a different country, it's difficult. Even nowadays for immigrants it's hard. But back then definitely with all of the turmoil, and the war, and that possible terrorists out there and what not. It was difficult for them to come over here to improve their lives, and their name and become an American citizen, but they did it. It was a long journey, but they definitely did it and thank god for that because I wouldn't be here. MH: Do you know what their occupations were? AW: I honestly, my grandfather was a farmer and my great grandmother did nothing. They raised, on the farm that I live on today actually, he had a little shop that my great grandmother, worked at as well. They did that in Binghamton actually. Do you know where St. Michael's is? Right around the corner there used to be a little shop, and that was their little shop. And they literally built it and did the best they could, like a little hardware shop or whatever. At my house there was actually a little gas station. Right in my front yard, it was kind of weird- just one pump. And they also lived off of that. They lived off of selling their meat, their eggs, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's how they raised farmers. My whole family was farmers. My grandmother and all of her brothers and sisters, there was nine of them, so they were all farmers, raised on the farm, and working hard. My grandmother stayed home, my uncles went out to college and stuff like that. My grandmother I don't believe even went to college, she worked jobs her whole life trying to support her family, and support even when she was living with her parents. So, farming that's it. MH: So you said you live in the same house, I think that is so cool. AW: Yeah. It's 140 years old. MH: Oh my gosh! KH: Wow! AW: It's an old house. It's amazing. I mean, you can just feel- sometimes you can feel the presence of my great grandparents which is just amazing. Still the same barn across the street, just a red barn. We don't raise cattle anymore and stuff like that but back then, you know, seeing where they would slaughter them, where to keep them, where the horses were, were the chickens were, we have a chicken coop in my backyard too, so we use that now for storage. But it's really cool living in the same house my grandparents raised and built their name. MH: Are there any sort of specific objects in the house that have a story or some importance? AW: Oh, boy! My-- we actually have my great-grandparents wedding cake still. MH: Wow! AW: So that's in the house, which that is really cool because that thing is like-- I think it is like 100 years old to be honest with you, very old. But it is really cool to have, you know, that presence there. And we've changed a lot of it, we used to have old wallpaper that they had, oh man was wallpaper was just horrible. [Laughter] When they talk about horrible, I'm talking about horrible. So, we repainted that but we've redone the whole house basically. The barn is really what we kept alone, obviously we use it for storage and whatnot. But there's still hay up in the barn, so it's really cool to, you know, feel the hay from when they were alive, you know what I mean? I mean, it connects me to them since I never got to meet them, which I would have loved to have met them. But yeah it is cool, it is cool. MH: Can you explain the significance of the wedding cake and in Ukrainian tradition? AW: It's like a regular wedding cake. We do not cut it, we shellac it, so we keep it forever. It is the meaning of the bond of a marriage because you keep it forever, you shellac and keep it. We have a party to make it with all our cousins. The bridal party, we invite whoever- it is usually women who make it- we invite the women over, we sit there, and we all make the dough. The center of it is paska. Paska is like sweet bread, have you ever had Day of the Dead bread? No? It's like a very sweet bread, very light. Oh, my grandma makes the best paska- again bread is huge. [Laughter] We make that first and then we make little chotchkies which are like little birds, and like flowers and stuff like that and then we shellac them, we all lay them out separate after the shellac and let them dry, and then we take toothpicks and we just stick it on the cake and we add like branches and stuff like that and then we stick them on with ribbon, and we make it whatever design you want. There's so many different designs out there, I mean my grandmother knows all of the designs, I have no idea. But, whatever you want. You can have three stories, my moms' is four stories high, it is like this big [motions with hands], with those flowers coming out everywhere, ribbon, birds, everything, it is really cool. KH: So, you have your mother's wedding cake as well? AW: Yes, my mother's' too. So she, even though my parents are divorced, she keeps it because it is of such significance, it's beautiful, it really is, and it sits up on the corner, next to my grandparents. So it's cool just to see both generations kind of just sitting there. It's really cool. My grandmother has hers at her house, but hers is huge. But it's amazing. KH: Are there any objects, you mentioned the Easter eggs before, can you just explain the significance and the process of making them and what it means? What it signifies? AW: Yeah, making Ukrainian Easter eggs is an Easter tradition, obviously with eggs. Like Americanized eggs, but we just add more designs onto them. It's a process, a very long process, but a very fun process. We take the egg, we put wax on it, we dye it, and then put more wax on it, light it with a flame, then we take the wax off it, and we have an Easter egg. It is really cool to be in that tradition and have that. I introduced it to a lot of my friends, my friend have made Ukrainian Easter eggs before, it's a lot of fun, we have a good time. But we display them over the house. We have two different displays at my house, personally. But at Easter time we put them all over. We have little stands that they stand on, and we just put them in the entrance or in the family room or up in my room, I have a few eggs of mine that I've made and we definitely show people, we kind of show them off because it's part of our tradition and it's part of who we are, and you know it's a good thing to be around. You know I want to introduce it to other people and I have and obviously they made some with me and it's really cool that I can put it on and tell other people who I am and where I am from and have them make it and be part of it. It's a lot of fun, lot of fun. MH: What were some of your friends' reactions, you said before that you loved to show them and tell them all about it, what were their reactions when they did it? AW: Well they were frustrated. They really were. For some of them it was their first times making them, and they sat there and just wanted to throw the egg and just be done with it, which is very understandable. But they went through it and in the end when they saw their end result and they got their egg, I think one of my friends almost cried because he was so excited to make an Easter egg. Their reaction to their finished product and all the frustration they've gone through trying to finish the egg is just priceless, it really is. They love it, they really do and it's really cool to see how much they actually love it. MH: Were there any other traditions that you introduced them too and how did they react to those? AW: Ukrainian dancing. They've seen my Ukrainian dancing. I dance at the festival, so they've come and seen that and are just like "can you teach me some of the steps". They just want to know and be so involved. The language. I've taught them little words and they're like "Oh I know what that is". So I've taught them, you know, little things. Like paska, they have eaten paska. And hren which is like horseradish and beets put together and my grandma makes it-it's the best- we put it on paska and they eat it and they love it. They love Ukrainian food. We actually pierogies, homemade ones and they loved doing that. Halupki, pigs wrapped in a blanket, they loved doing that too. So food, a lot of food, dancing, language, and stuff like that we've introduced to them. KH: So you seem to talk a lot about Ukrainian foods-- AW: Uh, yes-- KH: -- do you have any favorites? AW: Oh boy! What is my favorite? Kielbasa and kraut. I love kielbasa and kraut. We get our kielbasa from New York City, called Baczynsky's, from this place called Baczynsky's. They have the best meat, it's so out of this world, it's amazing. All Ukrainians work there, so we go there and all talk in Ukrainian. It's really cool to have that, you know, little shop in the corner. It brings me back to wondering what my great grandparents would be like because that's kind of what they did. So, it is really cool, and they knew my great grandparents, I mean the owner, we knew them for many years. So, it is really cool to see. I love pierogies [pronounces in Ukrainian] with onions [more Ukrainian], it is so good. I like it all to be honest with you. Obviously, I was raised food is food, you have to eat, and you eat it all or else it is rude. You have to literally eat everything on your plate and everything at the table. [Laughter] So you would have third or fourth helpings because my grandmother just says, "you're not done, you're still hungry", she just puts it on your plate and says, "you're eating it". That's what you got to do. You got to do what you got to do, right? But food is huge, huge in the community. I love Ukrainian food, love it. It's better than, honestly, most Americanized food, because it's homemade, everything is homemade, nothing's store bought other than like Kraut and stuff like that. But my grandparents would- another story- my grandmother would come home; my great grandmother would be sitting there making pierogis all day long. She had to feed like nine boys. MH: Oh, my goodness! AW: Yeah! And they ate a lot. So she just sat there all day long just making pierogies all by herself. Homemade. Just a ton of them every day, that's all they'd eat. It's also just dough and potatoes. So, they'd home grow the potatoes and they had the dough and it was just easy. And they weren't rich, they were very poor so that was just the cheapest and easiest way for them to eat, so it's cool. And knowing how to make them is just really cool. MH: I find it interesting, we interviewed a gentleman of Russian descent and he said that food is not a big deal in Russia-- AW: Really? MH: --so do you know of any other difference between Ukraine and Russia? AW: I'm not an expert on Russian culture. I'm really not. I do know that we share a lot of like the same- pysanky, we both do I believe. And I believe we both make paska, I believe. And Ukrainian dance is another thing. Ukrainian dance is huge, like we both dance very similarly, knowing other Russian groups. We've danced with them, we dance at the same concerts as them and stuff like that. We connect, and we talk, but they do dance very similarly to us which is another thing that's big. That's pretty much it that I know. Our languages are pretty similar too, that's why it is becoming Ukrainian-Russian kind of thing in more Eastern Ukraine right now. But other than that I don't know. MH: But here in the community, you do mix? You do have some interaction with Russian groups? AW: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially in dancing mostly. We just go to the same festivals and the same kind of concerts and stuff like that. Someone will ask us to dance and sometimes they have Russian dancing, sometimes Ukrainian dancing, and you know, sitting back and comparing Russian to our kind of dance is kind of dance is very similar, it really is. We have a lot of the same steps, but it is also very different with costumes and stuff like that. We have different costumes, which is cool to see. Other than that and the community, that huge in comparison. MH: What is the attitude towards what's going on in Russia and Ukraine now? AW: It's hard, it really is. I mean, it's hard to see. We, as Ukrainians here in the community we understand that what's going on is not every Russians fault, it really isn't. So us reaching out to other Russians is not the problem. It's just when they make it prominent that they want our country is when we have the problem. You understand? So, we, here in the community, a lot of Russians here really don't want this turmoil that is going on in Ukraine. They really don't. And so we connect with them and we, we talk about it and they're very supportive of us and, you know, some of them understand and want Ukraine to be a part of their country which is also understandable because we became independent, we were part of Russia first, but as we became independent, we want to stay independent. So that's why I think, for me, being Ukrainian is so strong. Like I'm so proud to be Ukrainian, I'm proud to say that I am a Ukrainian, whether we become part of Russia or not, I will always say I'm Ukrainian. You know? So, I think sometimes it brings tension but most of the time we just talk about it and we just things out, which is important. It really is. KH: So did your strong- oh what's the word I'm looking for -- your strong inheritance of Ukrainian values, did that come with how you were raised? AW: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. If I was not raised how I was raised I'd never have these values really. I was raised Ukrainian, my first language is Ukrainian. So Ukraine was always part of my life. I went to Ukrainian school, Ukrainian camp. So, it really was-- it really is a huge part of my life which is also why differentiates me from my American friends because it is just so-- it just consumes my whole life. It really does, and I am so proud, so proud to be Ukrainian. I mean, I don't know if this important but I've a tattoo of the Tryzub on my ribs to signify that I, no matter-- who try to take my heritage away from me, no matter who try to take my country away from me, I always have that and it is always gonna be mine permanently. So, I am very outspoken to be Ukrainian even though people sometimes get annoyed with it. I understand but like in fourth grade I was in the paper for being such a strong heritage from the beginning. It was just so strong. KH: Do you plan to stay in the Binghamton community here? AW: That's a good question. [Laughter] I would- I understand why I would like to because I have such a community here being Ukrainian and having the strong community I do here, but wanting to become a lawyer and what not, it's kind of more maybe I might travel. I do know many other Ukrainian communities, like Washington D.C., I know a Ukrainian community down there that I'm close to, I have friends down there. Wherever I go I will find a Ukrainian community, I will find a Ukrainian church. I mean this will always be my church. I want to get married in this church, no matter where I live. This is just, my church. But, wherever I go, I will go and try to go to a Ukrainian community, and join another Ukrainian community because I know we are all open and we all just want to be family. So, I probably will move, even though I know it's going to be difficult, but I will always carry that with me. MH: Is your family and community supportive of the fact that you know you might have to leave? AW: Yeah. My family is pretty- they, they understand. They know that I want to go on and travel and live my life and, you know, become successful and become who I am. And they know that I will carry on my traditions wherever I go. I mean if I marry and American, sorry, you're going to become Ukrainian. Like that's just how it is. You know what I mean? They are very supportive, they really are. They know that I have valued this my whole life and I will always value this. So it's just how it's going to be. MH: I probably already know the answer to this, but do you plan on raising your children and your family similarly to how you were raised? AW: Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes. Definitely. They will be raised, I will try to teach them as much Ukrainian as I know. But tradition wise and church wise they will be raised Catholic, they will be raised with always going to church on holidays, always celebrating Christmas. Christmas I will always come back here, for Christmas no matter where I live, no matter how big my family is. My grandma will always have Christmas, as long as she's living, at her house. And if she dies and they stop tradition, I'll start it up in my house, you know? So, it will always carry with me, through my kids, through my spouse, whatever. I'm very headstrong on this. MH: You just talked a lot about religion, how has religion influenced you in, you know, morality or just making life choices? AW: Very greatly. I have been raised Catholic literally since birth. So I portray that even in my friends' life. I'm not the type to try and convert them, but I am the type that says "I have to go to church, I'm going to church". You know, I have to wake up on Sunday at 8 o'clock in the morning, I'm going to do it, I have to go. So church and religion is very important in my life. I'm the more tame of my friends. I do do some "crazy" [air quotes] stuff, but religion is always in the back of my mind, morality is always there with my friends. I even try and like, not convert them, but try and teach them some ways. My friends have come to church with me and I've, you know, introduced them to my heritage and my religion and who I am. And it's part of who I am, I'm not going to hide it from the world, you know what I mean? So religion is a huge part of my life as well. MH: So how does Russian Orthodox differ from--? AW: Ukrainian Catholic? MH: Yeah. AW: Russian Orthodox Church, they have different, like, ways to baptize, different ways to do other things. They're kind of the same thing but they just do things differently than we do. So in desperation if we can't find a Ukrainian Catholic church if we go out of town we go to a Russian Orthodox because they're pretty much the same thing, they just do things differently. So it's comparable but it also has some differences to it. MH: It sounds like the communities is accepting of them even though you're different. So, there isn't any sort of [motions with hands to suggest conflict]--? AW: No, no, no. Not that I know of at least. I don't know. Not that I know of. We, as I said, we go to Russian Orthodox when we're out of town and at the beach or something like that. We still go to church on vacations, that's another thing, when we're out of town. So, yeah. KH: So what's your favorite part of the Ukrainian Community in Binghamton? AW: Oh, how big it actually is. Meeting other Ukrainians that are a part of the community that I didn't even know about. You know, I mean, I have a pretty big family here and I have pretty big connections, like outwards, even in Binghamton that don't go to this church and what not. But knowing other people that are a part of the community that I didn't know of beforehand is really cool. It's really cool to meet other people and bring them in and stuff like that. MH: You said you knew of a Ukrainian community in Washington D.C., how did you meet them? AW: SUM, up in my Ukrainian camp, literally, all across the country they come and you know it's cool to see other people from like, California, even Texas, I don't know- crazy. Philadelphia- huge, huge, Ukrainian community in Philadelphia. Washington D.C. I was in a debutant, as well. It's part of the tradition. And they had one down in D.C. and I know a lot of friends, my friends, who go down to D.C. and go to that debutant too, which is a very Ukrainian tradition. So that's how I know other Ukrainian communities and they're all over the world. MH: And how does Binghamton differ from these other communities or does it? AW: We--sometimes they go to other churches and we celebrate other religions and stuff like that but other than that we're really quite similar and that's why I've made so many friends because we have so many similarities. One of my kind of cousins, she's married, well not married, she's adopted into the family, from Ukraine actually. There's two of them, brother and sister, they are not brother and sister by blood, but by adoption and their story is just- man what they went through to come over here. Do you want me to tell you a little bit about it? MH: If you're comfortable. AW: Yeah, that's fine. My- I consider them my family- my cousins. They're very close to me, I consider them my siblings, you know, my sister and my brother. Their names are Tereza and Mykola. Tereza was very young when she was adopted, I believe she was three? Two or three? But Mykola was more six? Seven? Eight? Something around there. So he remembers a lot more. When they, when my cousins went over there to adopt them, they saw that he had scratches, he had bruises, he was beaten. They were both beaten over there in the adoption homes. So they saw both of them, and they saw them just curled up together. They were actually together, they meet each other and they said we just can't separate them. How can we separate them? We are taking them both, because they only wanted one. So they said how we can separate these two kids who connected a bond trying to protect each other. He did everything for her. She was behind him, he was in front and they were just cuddling. They were just holding on to each other, basically for dear life, and he had just so many bruises and so many- you know they were verbally, verbally- it was ridiculous what they would say to them. So they adopted them and they came over here, and Mykola, he does have a lot of problems now because he does remember a lot of it and he used to have nightmares and he's on a lot of medications and stuff like that, but he has actually become a personal trainer. He's very successful. She is going off to become a doctor. So they're very successful. They're normal, very normal. He's the one who more has problems, per se. He's had a lot of, a lot of life issues, but they've solved it and you know, they just have to go with it. You can't- you just have to- you know, you can't push them away. They both are very close to me, they're also from SUM, I know them from. They're from Yonkers. Yonkers is where their SUM group meets. But they're from Port River. So they live far away, but we still keep in contact. They are both amazing, amazing people. What they came from, how they, I mean, my cousins they really are amazing for saving them and taking them both in and with all the hardship they knew that was coming with both of them is amazing. They, they're just, it's incredible, it really is. MH: Wow! That's amazing. AW: Like the stories you hear of, you know, of terrible adoption horror stories. It really is true and you know, they're living proof of it but they're so successful. They're going off and I mean he's had problems his whole life, but look at him, he's a personal trainer. I'm so happy for them. They're very Ukrainian as well, both of them are like me. They're very outspoken about it, very open people, which is amazing too because you'd think they'd be closed off from the world, they're not. They're very open, very--want to bring everyone in and just talk to them about it, you know what I mean? So, which is amazing for them and it's- I don't- I don't even know half the stuff they both went through over there, but to see them now is just truly, truly amazing. MH: So even though they had, you know, such a hard experience there, they're still proud to be Ukrainian? AW: Oh yeah. MH: Do you think that comes more from your family and you know, how-- AW: How they were raised? --They were raised? Yeah, definitely. I mean, they understood just because they were in a bad situation and a bad home, I mean adoption companies and adoption homes over there and you know, foster homes over there are very different from them over here, even to this day. They're very poor countries so they, they really don't have a lot. So, but, they just were in bad home. I mean even over here in America that happens, they're just in a bad home and there was a lot more bad homes back then when they were first born then there are now in Ukraine, but they- amazing that they were saved and they're over here now and they, they understand the difference of a bad home and Ukraine. They don't- they don't connect the two. So they, which is awesome because that means they can celebrate that and I wouldn't be as close, I don't think that I could be as close to them, you know? They'd be more cut off, just more conservative about their life, but they're very very proud to be Ukrainian, just as I am. MH: When your cousins were looking to adopt, did they specifically choose Ukrainian because of their own history? AW: Yes. Yes. And they understood what was going on in Ukraine with adoption companies over there. So they understood what, um, they could possibly go through, adopting from Ukraine back then. But they, they did it and I'm so happy they did and they're happy they did. They are the two-honestly it's crazy- they look like their parents. It's so weird. They all look together and it's like "are you sure you're not born here, like are you sure you're not born from them?" But they're not and they look like each other, even though they're not. So how they grew up together, I think it was just a match made in heaven to be honest with you. It was perfect. Yeah. MH: Wow, that's amazing. AW: It is amazing, it's really cool. MH: Going back to the Ukrainian communities around the country, and you said you could go to D.C., do you think most communities would be open-- AW: Yeah. MH: Are they all very open? AW: I believe so, I can't tell you one hundred percent because I'm not- I don't- I've gone to other communities but I've never really associated that much into the communities. But if I went to other Ukrainian communities across the country I'd probably know someone, so I'd probably be brought in very quickly. But other than that they're very open, just like us, they're very open to everyone and even in SUM sometimes we have Americans that are there that just want to know the culture, you know? Just want to get involved and we accept them, they're there and we just deal with it, you know what I mean? It's cool. It's cool. KH: So going back to your cousins, what part of Ukraine did they live in before they were adopted? Or do you not know? AW: More middle. Middle East. From there, I believe. MH: Do you know how location in Ukrainian influences cultural identity? AW: Oh yes. Eastern Ukraine is more Russianized. Western Ukraine is more Polandized and then the middle of Ukraine is kind of both. So, since Russia is, you know, such a big influence, that's where Russianized Ukrainian comes from. Since Poland is kind of an influence where a lot of people fled from Ukraine to Poland, there, Polish is also Ukraine, Polish-Ukraine is also a thing too. And middle Ukraine is kind of both. It's more Eastern, more Russianized, that I know of. But, Ukrainian, the old old regime Ukrainian language still is huge in Ukraine. It's just not- it's just kind of going away since everything's becoming new with, you know, bringing up with Russia and Poland and stuff like that. So, that's pretty much the differences of how Ukraine can be and that's why it's hard to understand other people because sometimes they're speaking Polish-Ukrainian, sometimes they're speaking Russian-Ukrainian. You don't know, so that's pretty much the difference. MH: What is- where does the majority of the community members here in Binghamton hail from, Western or Eastern? AW: Western. Yes, Western. MH: So, what sort of practices distinguish them from Eastern? AW: It's not really practices, it's just the language. So they language is really what differences everyone from where they come from. I mean, like we said before hutsul, pysanky Ukrainian eggs, even there's hutsul dances, there's a lot of very- sickle dance is more from Western Ukraine, hutsul dance is more from Eastern. So there's different kinds of dances, songs, writings and stories from different parts of the country, kind of like our country, you know very- it's different, you know, wherever you go. So I think that's what--yeah. MH: Do you know when this community was sort of established, around what period and what brought them to Binghamton? AW: Oh boy, it was early nineteen hundreds. And they came to Binghamton--I think because so many people from Ukrainian descent were here so, um, they just kind of saw the potential and just made the community and built the church, and the church was in a different part of Johnson City, I believe. I forget what the old church is, but there was an old church that was made first and that's what-it was kind of- it was small. So they decided we needed a bigger church. We need- we have more people coming in, coming from Ukraine and more immigrants and stuff like that, so we built this church and that was a little later on, I think it was 40 years after the first church was built, I believe so, don't quote me on that, I'm not sure. But then we built the new church and that's when all these people who are now American born, they're bigger families and obviously my grandparents because they had a farm, they had a huge family and then other people in this church also had nine, ten kids, so that's why we built this church. MH: What sort of differences do you see between the older generation here and the younger, Americanized, American-born kids? AW: Obviously because we were born with such technology and such knowledge and what we were open too and what they weren't. They weren't born with all of the technology we have so that's a huge part, I mean we're all on our phones and they're like "why are you always on your phone?" you know. Kind of the normal older people kind of questions and stuff like that, but how they- how they tell their stories is different than us. I mean, they have such heart into how they talk even, they have such pain too and how they talk about certain things and sometimes you shut up and just listen, you know? They definitely--just how the media has been brought up, we brought up around the media, how they're brought up around the media too, which is a huge impact in how we are both raised and how we both communicate to each other because we were brought up with the openness of Google, you know, the news and whatnot like that, and they had no idea half the time. I mean my grandparents didn't have a TV, they had a radio. So that was it, that's all they listened to. So that's just the technology and media difference really is what is kind of hard about communicating with them but they're pretty- they understand and work with it, so it's becoming easier to be honest. MH: Is there anything you could learn from them? Or what you'd be interested in learning? AW: Oh I have learned a lot from my grandmother. She is an amazing amazing woman and I learned how to cook from her, I've learned how to write in Ukrainian from her, how to speak. I mean she was my babysitter so she's the one who really put all her traditions and all her knowledge into my brother and I. I have a little brothers turning sixteen and we both were raised Ukrainian, raised one hundred percent by mostly, kind of her. My parents both were at work so she had us all day long, so she kind of almost raised us in a sense. So her impact on how to cook, clean, how to act and stuff like that really is a big- what has made us who we are today. Another thing about Ukrainian is-it's not sexist but- the women stayed home and they cleaned and they cooked and they took care of the kids because that's what they had to do. The men went out and worked and were farmers and stuff like that, that's how she was raised. So that- she tried to put that in my brother and I's kind of brain, but not in going off to college. Going off to college was for- she wanted all of us to go to college. She wanted her kids to go to college that was her biggest thing, was just go to college, I don't care what you go for just do it. And so in that sense the women got to kind of do their own thing and become their own person, but it's still the expectation that they're going to stay home and cook and clean all that kind of stuff after their job and stuff like that. I am more of the person of I'm not going to stay home cook and clean. I'm going to obviously become a lawyer. So I'm going to have a lot of late nights and you know studying and stuff like that so I am more- I do understand her ways and I respect her ways, which I actually do take into some consideration in my life. When I have kids I want to stay home with them their first couple of years until they go to school and then obviously put them in daycare or whatever I need to do, or until whenever I come home or whatever, and even if I don't have to work and I marry someone "rich" [air quotes] then I'll stay home with the kids, you know? So--having her opinion in that way kind of, I respect it a lot and I take it in my life, you know, it's good to be around your kids and I understand it but also at the same time I want to become my own person and I want to become independent and successful first. So yeah. MH: Is this sort of the typical thinking still among the Ukrainian community here? AW: Yes. The older community, yes. It's how they were raised and that's how they think everyone else should be raised. And it's difficult for them to see all these, like, teen pregnancies and see all these young couples getting married. I mean, she was young, but like, getting married for no reason and getting just- kind of- throwing their life away kind of thing. It's hard for them to see and my grandma sometimes doesn't understand it as much, but she tries to- that's why I think she tries to so much teach us how to- how it should be and stuff like that. But I- I am my own person and I understand both ways and so I think that's why the community is so- that's how the older community is. MH: You mentioned you have a brother. Is he as passionate about Ukraine as you are? AW: Not as much to be honest with you. Really to be honest, he's really not as passionate. He's passionate though he just doesn't speak it as much, but he does understand it. He does, I mean, he portrays to his friends. His friends come and make pysanky too. So he, I mean it's not like he holds it off from the world but he's definitely open about it and he wants to tell people about it, he's just not as--into it as I am. So, I'm the one who's just Ukrainian all the way. He the one who "if I marry someone English, Ukrainian, whatever I'll decide that later on", you know that kind of thing. Yeah he'll bring them too obviously to Ukrainian traditions and stuff like that but he's more of an "I'll just go with the flow whatever, I mean, they're English, I'm Ukrainian, okay." That kind of thing. I'm more, "yeah you're going to be Ukrainian and we're raising my kids Ukrainian whatever". He's more just laid back about it. MH: I just wanted to get this straight for the record, so you, your first language was Ukrainian? AW: Yes. MH: And is it still spoken in your house? AW: Yes. MH: Can you read it and write it? AW: I can speak it, I can read somewhat, I can write somewhat. I can definitely write my name, I can write the date and months and stuff like that. I'm not fluent in reading, writing, or speaking it. I used to be, obviously. My first language was Ukrainian, I lost it after going to school. My counselor told my parents "You need to teach them English, not Ukrainian, because they're struggling". I wish my counselor didn't do that, because I would love to be more fluent in it, I really would. I've always thought about going in college and taking a course and becoming more fluent or something like that because it's really important to me. But yeah, speaking, reading, writing, is kind of difficult, but I make do and I can communicate with other Ukrainians, yeah. MH: Was is hard for you when you were small, having to learn English or, you know, was there a language barrier between you and the other kids? AW: I really don't remember, but I do know that it was, I believe it was difficult. There was a little bit of a language barrier, I was kind of slow learning English. English was always my hard- back in elementary school it was always hard for me. And even in middle school it was difficult for me. English was my worst subject. So learning English was always- I never understood- I never really understood it. Now I do, obviously. But I never really understood how the language works and stuff like that back then. So teachers would be frustrated with me, they'd say "oh you're never going to get very far with English" or "you're not going to do very good", "your essays are always going to be horrible" and stuff like that. So I mean they worked with it, but they became frustrated with me because I just didn't understand it and they didn't know why. I said "my language is Ukrainian" like "this is where I come from", like English is second to me so learning all the -oh man it was so difficult learning all the little words and what they mean and different-- MH: -- prepositions -- AW: Yes, oh my gosh, don't even get me started. It's still confusing to me, so it's- it was difficult, it was, but I made do and I mean obviously I wish Ukrainian was more promoted in my house. I mean my dad didn't speak Ukrainian, he kind of does now, he knows somewhat but he really didn't speak it so that was another thing. My mom, my grandma was really the one to enforce it. I wish they pushed it more because I would have made do but it's okay, it worked out, obviously it worked out fine. MH: You mentioned you went to Ukrainian school? AW: Uh-huh. MH: Can you explain what that was? AW: Yeah it was here, through my church-- MH: OK, so like a Sunday school? AW: Yeah, kind of like that, yeah- it was on Saturdays and it was in the morning and it was also corresponding with SUM [also known as CYM] and for SUM we have to do- there was different camps throughout the summer, so one week was dance camp, one week was like history camp. I mostly went to the all-around camp where we did kind of everything. So we had to recite poems and stuff like that in Ukrainian, so that was part of Ukrainian school was preparing ourselves for something called "zlet" up there, which is something kind of like- it was Memorial Day weekend so we all did like sports and we all recited poems and did all these things and we got points and we got medals at the end and trophies too, that was also really fun, being brought up like that. But speaking it was part of that, so I guess that Ukrainian school was preparing for SUM, which is Ukrainian camp, and speaking it. So that was kind of- it was all in one. MH: Where was SUM located? AW: Ellenville, New York. Which is about two hours away from here, so not that far away. It's a lot of fun. I'm going there obviously Memorial Day weekend. I don't participate anymore because I'm too old, but I just go to see all my friends and we all just hang out and just have the weekend there, we just go to vatra, which are bonfires, and we go to the dances and it's just a lot of fun, we just chill and hang out. Now it's cool because I don't have to do anything. I'd don't have to you know, learn all these poems, which was so stressful back then, but it was worth it, it was a lot of fun. I mean, it helped make me who I am today, going to Ukraine camp and having that diverse friend connection is really cool. Yeah. MH: Just going back to your father's family, I find this so interesting. We've talked about your mother's family and, you know, her Ukrainian heritage, but do you know anything about your Father's English? AW: He's American-born, his whole family was born here. He, I believe he said something about being of Indian descent, I'm not sure, one time he said that it might be possible. They- we're not as close to them. He really made family here, so. I mean we celebrate birthdays and stuff like that with them, I mean when my parents were married they celebrated a lot more with us, like Thanksgiving we celebrated with them, it was a big family thing. And, you know, first holy communions or like birthdays, they'd come, still, to my birthday parties, or whatever. Birthday parties are another huge thing. We have a party for every birthday, it's ridiculous. But, they--they're Christian so they still go to church and stuff like that so we have that kind of connection and that kind of, we can compare like that, but other than that we don't really see them as much so they just kind of do their own thing, we just kind of do our own thing. I mean, bringing them into the family through my mom and them getting married, they obviously took part of some of the Ukrainian traditions because obviously we are very contagious, [laughter] so we call on other people and they take part in it, and they miss it, they really do. But it was cool seeing how they came from just being English and not knowing any other culture and coming and marrying into this family and you know they even took some Ukrainian with them. They have pysanky around their house and things like that. My brother, not my brother, my father has a brother and a sister, and they're closer to the sister than he is to his brother and his sister has Ukrainian pysanky and embroideries from my mom's wedding and stuff like that that they have taken with them and display in their house, which is cool because we are not very close to them, but it's cool. MH: So how does it feel seeing, I like the word you used, "contagious", you know, seeing your Ukrainian history spread? And are you excited about that? AW: Oh yeah, it gets me so excited. I love talking about how I'm Ukrainian and I just like to portray onto others who I am and where I come from and how Ukraine is. I mean, you hear a little about Ukraine on the news, about being Russia trying to take over or whatever, I mean, some people have this certain opinion that- we are a poor country. I mean we're a pretty big country, but our population is pretty small. So, I like to introduce to other people, "Hey, I'm Ukrainian, you want to learn more?", "Obviously, yeah let's go", you know what I mean? So, I love to talk about, like, who I am and where I come from and really introduce the Ukrainian tradition to others because I think it's important. I want to hear about other people too. I love to hear about who other people have become and what other cultures are compared to mine, like Polish, they're different but they're similar. It's really cool to compare and meet other people and stuff like that. So I do the same and I want to know other people's, bring it on, like I want to compare I want to switch notes and stuff like that, but I definitely- it's so much fun talking about my heritage to others because we're so different. We really are, but we are also so much the same. It's cool. It's a lot of fun. MH: Just to conclude our interview, we have a few sort of general questions. AW: Yeah. MH: What is your favorite part about being Ukrainian? AW: My favorite part? Boy, that's a good question. I love talking about Ukrainian heritage and I love celebrating it. I love being with family and just having all of the traditions and really still practicing them. Because I know a lot of other people don't really practice their traditions. We practice every single one. We love our traditions. So traditions basically is my favorite part of being Ukrainian and celebrating them with family. MH: Do you have a favorite tradition? AW: Christmas. MH: Christmas? AW: Christmas. Because we just bring every family member from all across the country, even- we have family in Australia now, they come back-- MH: Wow! AW: Yeah! So it's really cool. I remember when she went away she spoke English and she had this thick New York accent, she went over there now she has an Australian accent. I'm like "wait, what's this, hold on, backup, reverse, wait, what?" [Laughter] So it's really cool to have them come over here, and she's actually getting married in June? July? Which is really exciting because we're going to have people from Canada, Australia, and America-- MH: Oh my gosh! AW: So yeah, it's going to be a big wedding. Seven hundred people. Crazy. Yeah, weddings are another thing that's a lot- Actually weddings is another thing that I love about being Ukrainian because the tradition of a wedding is totally different. The ceremony is about an hour and a half, two hours to get married, and then we basically party all night and party all day. So before, let me explain the wedding, so before you go to the mother's house, the bride's mother's house and you get the blessing of the godparents and they put a rushnyk, which is an embroidered cloth over your head and they pray with you and they wish you the best. And the groom is- well I don't know where the groom is honestly. But this is all at the bride's parent's house, bride's mother's house, and then they go to the church and they get married. The service is so beautiful. It's so long but so worth it, so beautiful. And they- after they get married we go to the reception and the reception lasts until we are done dancing to be honest and dancing is just all night long and then the next day we go to the parents' house and we have another party to celebrate their marriage and we just- we just chill and take the day to actually kind of regroup each other but we invite the whole family, so it's another hundred, hundred-fifty people over at the house. Every holiday, there is at least a hundred people that we celebrate with. So a wedding is another thing that I love. I love going to Ukrainian weddings because it's just so different than, like, an American wedding. You get married in like ten minutes and then you say your vows in like ten minutes and you're married and you go to the reception, you know what I mean? It is totally- there is so much more. And the reception, we do dances, certain dances with the mother and stuff like Ukrainianized dances and stuff like that that we partake in the wedding as well. Which is cool to introduce to Americans, they've never been to a Ukrainian wedding, they don't know what they're in for. I'm telling them, "You don't know what you're in for if you go to a Ukrainian wedding because there's a lot more to it than you think". So it's really cool, yeah. MH: You mentioned you now have family in, or at weddings you'll have Ukrainians from Australia, Canada and the U.S., do you know how their communities differ from communities in the U.S.? AW: Canada, I know more about in Canada than I do about Australia. Australia, she moved there like five, six years ago so I've never been there. Obviously I'd love to go there, and I will go there, because that's awesome. But I think the communities are pretty much the same in Canada and they are here, I think they do a little different tradition wise, different like, things, and stuff like that. It depends on their religion as well, that's another huge part of it. But, yeah they definitely- it's cool to see how others, like, their weddings might be a little different, so when they come to our wedding we're going to see how they react to certain things with the reception and stuff like that, but I think it's pretty much the same and stuff. MH: What's one thing you want everyone to know about Ukraine and being Ukrainian? AW: Oh, how, how spiritual we are. How open we are. How generous and kind and sweet we are. I want people to know that we are open to everyone and we just want to tell you about our culture. We just want everyone to know that we're Ukrainian and we're proud of it and we're not stubborn and hard and closed off as some people might think Ukrainians are. I just want people to know that we are very open and we want- we just want to tell you about our culture and just, open it up and have you come in and celebrate with us, as well as us celebrating with you. MH: Okay, is there anything else you'd like to add or want us to know? AW: I think that pretty much covered everything that I at least know as being Ukrainian. Other than food, lot of food, dancing, the language-- Obviously there are so many other stories that are out there of Ukrainians and stuff like that. Definitely being American-born but being raised Ukrainian has been a blessing and really, I'm so proud to be Ukrainian even though I am American. It's just amazing. It's an amazing feeling to have this background, it really is. MH: Do you identify more with Ukrainian or American? AW: Hmm. I- depends on what--certain things. I identify with being more Ukrainian, but then again I am very proud to be an American. I really am. I hold proud. I, honestly, I might become a politician one day, you never know, maybe President, you never know. Hey, why not? You go big or go home right? [Laughter] So, but being Ukrainian is just so strong for me even though I do love being an American. I really do. I celebrate everything, Fourth of July, and everything like that. I love it. It's an amazing feeling as well to have both cultures and really celebrate both. I mean it becomes extremely busy, but it's okay and it's a lot of fun having both backgrounds. MH: Kevin do you have any other questions? KH: Nope. MH: I think that just about covers it. Thank you so much. AW: Thank you. MH: That was amazing. AW: Good. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Adrianna Watson Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Watson, Adrianna ; Hage, McKenna ; Hiller, Kevin Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Adrianna Watson is a college student majoring in Law and is a second generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born in Johnson City. She lives in the Southern Tier of New York with her large, extended family. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Adrianna Watson.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-03 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 71:36 Subject The topic of the resource Watson, Adrianna. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Ukrainian folk dancing; Ukrainian cooking; Summer camps; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/26752b39606ee1ffd92c2d8333d03c9e.m4a 09154d91ec02ab8d659dea8b2e8aa8d7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Sanyshyn Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kevin DeLuca and Kayla Jermansky Date of Interview 6 April 2016 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 59:19 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Biographical Text David Sanyshyn is a retired engineer and is a third generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born in the Binghamton area. He is a Vietnam War veteran, having served two terms in the Navy, and is active in the Ukrainian Catholic Church. He met his wife, a second generation Ukrainian, in the United States. They have 3 children together and 4 grandchildren, and reside in Binghamton. Digital Format audio/mp4 Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Sanyshyn, David. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Church; Ukrainian--music; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=DavidSanyshyn.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Ukrainians; Immigrants; Catholics, Ukrainian; Veterans; Ukrainian diaspora; Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Ethnicity ; Ukrainian Catholic Church Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: David Sanyshyn Interviewed by: Kevin DeLuca and Kayla Jermansky Transcriber: Kevin DeLuca and Kayla Jermansky Date of interview: 6 April 2016 at 10:00 am Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Kevin DeLuca: Hello, my name is Kevin DeLuca, and this is Kayla Jermansky, and we are here today at Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church on April 6th to interview David Sanyshyn. David Sanyshyn is a 3rd generation Ukrainian immigrant. He has agreed to speak to us about his personal experiences growing up as a Ukrainian, and we are interviewing him in order to learn more his personal experiences and cultural identity. We will also be discussing his childhood, what he considers to be his national identity, what influenced his grandparents to come to America, as well as any other insight he chooses to share with us. Kayla Jermansky: So, you said you were born here in Binghamton. Specifically, you were born in this community? David Sanyshyn: Yes, I grew up two houses down from the church. KD: Is everyone in this community a Ukrainian immigrant? DS: When I was born it wasn't unusual to hear Polish, Slovak, Russian or Ukrainian anywhere in the community. There was a lot of households that actually spoke all of them. KJ: Do you still hear those languages today? DS: Not really, most of the immigration has moved out along with the jobs. KJ: Is there a reason you chose to stay instead of leaving? DS: I like the area and it's just a beautiful place to live. KD: What do you like most about it? DS: The scenery and the change of seasons. Also, the mountains. My grandparents came from a place very similar to this in geography. KD: Do you know why your grandparents came here? DS: Jobs. My mother's side came to work in Syracuse and actually went back to Ukraine which was uncommon at the time. Then he came here with the intent of working. This was around 1910 and she saw that changes in the political atmosphere was getting pretty bad. So, she wrote him a letter and said if you can work there and make enough money to live then maybe there is a better place to live. Then he sent her money to have her transported here. My other grandparents came during WW1 and settled in New Jersey. KJ: For more background info, can you tell us when you were born? DS: 1950. KD: What do you do for a living? DS: Right now, I'm a retired software engineer. KJ: What is your educational background? DS: I have a 2-year degree that I got after I got out of the service. KJ: How old were you when you joined the Navy? DS: 18. KD: What influenced you to serve in the Navy? DS: The draft. The war was going on; if I didn't join the Navy I would've been drafted in the Army. KD: Can you tell us a little more about your experience in the Navy? DS: I made 2 tours in Vietnam and learned electronics. I saw a lot of different sights, a lot of different places: Guam, Hawaii, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Japan. KJ: So, you are very well traveled. DS: Yes, well they say join the Navy, see the world. It was interesting to see all of the different cultures. KJ: How long did you serve? DS: 4 years. KD: Do you have any children? DS: Yes. KD: How many? DS: 3 children and 4 grandchildren. KJ: Did you meet your wife here? DS: No, she's from Utica. KD: Is she also Ukrainian? DS: Yes, she's also Ukrainian. She is 2nd generation, her parents came after WW2. KD: When did you start coming to this church? DS: Right from birth. I was baptized here. Actually, before this church was here, my grandmother used to have a little Chapel in her house and a Brazilian priest used to come around once in a while and have masses. KJ: How religious would you say you are? DS: Pretty religious. KD: Would you say this church helped you acclimate to Binghamton? DS: Yes, because we always had a very close tie to the Church and being Ukrainian we always had a close tie to the traditions also. We still carry out all of the traditions. I still host Christmas Eve at our house and we've had as many as 52 at a sit-down dinner for Christmas Eve. KD: How many brothers and sisters do you have? DS: I have 5 sisters and 2 brothers. KJ: How was that growing up with so many kids around? DS: There was always a lot of people around, so it was always good. Plus, both of my parents came from big families. There were 9 or 10 kids in both of my grandparents' houses so there were always a lot of festivities, a lot of music and a lot of get together. KD: Do you think having a big family is a Ukrainian tradition? DS: It was a tradition because back then you wanted more hands to work the fields. At the turn of the century that was how you lived; as soon as spring hit you were working from sun up until sundown. KD: What kinds of games did you play as a child? DS: You know, just the regular kickball or baseball or basketball. Some type of ball. KJ: Are there any specific Ukrainian games that your parents brought over? DS: Not really, my parents weren't big game players. There was always a lot of work to do with the farm. KJ: What was it like growing up with your parents, were they strict? DS: I wouldn't say they were strict. They helped instill important values. They always practiced what they preached. KD: How do you think your experience would be different if you grew up in Ukraine instead of here? DS: It definitely would have been more of an agricultural society. There would also be a lot of different cultures. KJ: We have learned that Ukraine is known as a "melting pot". DS: Yes, my mother's side of the family, I believe, are actually Ukrainians living in Poland. It actually used to be part of Ukraine at one point. KD: Did your grandparents always identify as Ukrainian? DS: Yes. KD: What would you identify yourself as now? DS: Ukrainian American. KJ: Have you ever visited Ukraine? DS: No. KD: Did you ever plan to? DS: I think it would be interesting just to see it. Of course, now you can just look on the internet. KD: Is there a reason that you didn't? DS: Well, for one thing, the border was closed for a long time. It wasn't until 1992 that they opened it up. We did have some visitors, though. My wife's cousin came from Ukraine. KJ: Was it difficult for your grandparents to find work here? DS: No, I don't think so. My mother's father worked here on the railroad and after he moved here the second time he was working in EJ. I don't know if you've ever heard the term "which way EJ". Both: No. DS: That was because Endicott Johnson employed people and he needed people to work in the shoe factory. So, that was the saying for immigrants once they got off the boat, they'd say "which way EJ". The idea was they were going to come here to work in this area; that's how a lot of people got settled here. KJ: How would you say your grandparents' experience was first coming here? DS: It was difficult but that's why they hung in different communities. My grandfather actually lived up on a hill here and he used to grow vegetables. They bought some farms up here and started farming, which is what they did best. They raised their kids and they all went off and did things. KD: Do you have any remaining family members still in Ukraine? DS: I'm not sure. From what I understand my grandfather was from a family of 16 and we haven't kept up with all of them. KD: Has your family brought over any Ukrainian traditions that you still practice today? DS: Oh yeah. Christmas Eve supper, a 12-course meal, and we put hay on the table. There's always a dish with barley or wheat and honey and nuts or raisins. Then, we had Barsch which is a type of fish. We had sauerkraut and some lima beans. And there are a couple of other smaller dishes. KJ: Are there any other smaller traditions that you guys have? DS: Well on Easter in Ukraine they would perform these dances and songs and the kids would all join in. They still do it around here but not as much, it's not as practical as it used to be. They also used to have water fights the day after Easter. The girls would go after the guys and the guys would go after the girls. KJ: Have your parents passed down any traditions to you that you still do? DS: We still do Christmas Eve dinner and on Easter we will have a big breakfast. There's eggs, ham, pasta, potato salad and stuff like that. KD: Are there any daily traditions or just ways of living that could be different from someone that isn't Ukrainian? DS: Well my kids have always told me that we were different because for one thing I have a large piece of land- I have 40 acres and I built my own house. Then they got to college and were surprised that nobody builds their own houses anymore. My father worked carpentry for quite a while and there are a lot of things that he showed me. As a matter of fact, when I got out of the service that is what I wanted to do. You know, build a house and sell it, build a house and sell it. I saved money up when I was in the service and then when I got out of the service my parents had built a house next to the one we have up here. My father came to me and said, "You see that house, you can't build it and sell it for enough to make money on it." So, I said, well I know electronics, so I got hired in GE and worked there for about a year then I worked for IBM for a while. They had this last layoff in 2009 and that's when I retired. KJ: So, you would say you had a good career path? DS: Yeah, it's interesting because now my sons are growing up now and working, and with all of the costs and student loans it's hard making ends meet. I don't mean to scare you but that's what a lot of people are experiencing. KD: Where did your children go to school? DS: Whitney Point. KD: Is that in the community? DS: Whitney Point is up I-81 about 20 miles. KJ: So, they stayed local. Did they ever consider leaving? DS: My son is still here, and my 2 daughters are back in Raleigh. Both of them are teachers down there. My older daughter was actually working at IBM when they started making the layoffs. So, then she went down there with my younger daughter. KJ: So that's Raleigh, North Carolina, right? DS: Raleigh, yes. KD: Have you ever thought about leaving Binghamton? DS: No, when I got out of the service I bought my aunt's share of my grandparents' farm and I got 33 acres out of that. Then my parents had more that they split up between me and my brothers and sisters. KD: Did all of your siblings stay in Binghamton too? DS: I have 2 sisters and 1 brother that stayed in the area. I have a brother in Ryder, New York and a sister in Queens. Then I have a sister in Cary, North Carolina, and I have another sister in Austin, Texas. My brother lives next door to me and my sister lives around the corner. KJ: Very close family. DS: Yes, we all experienced everything together. Even when we are apart we still remember our roots. KJ: Do you have any particular memories from when you were a kid? DS: Just the area. We used to go sledding around the roadside here, it's called Old Dale Hill Road. We would start up here at the Church and sled down the road. This area is loaded with fruit trees: plums, cherries, apples, peaches. Like I said my grandfather had tons of fruit, strawberries too. He would always get them out earlier than everyone else, like 2 weeks, and he'd always make out well on the strawberries with people, being the first one of the season. KJ: That sounds like an interesting childhood. DS: Yeah, I was a country boy because this is the outskirts here. This was all farm area around here still. I was an early riser, gone early morning, my mother would yell at me "Where'd you go?" KD: Do you think if your parents had settled in a bigger city your childhood would have been different? DS: Yes. We've had several different relatives that grew up in big cities and it seems like most of the kids got messed up. Maybe a couple of them were okay but most of them really had problems. KD: What do you think the biggest difference is living in the city? DS: It's hard to be as cultural in the city. You seem to have a lot less, I mean you have a small community here, where you knew the people and your parents knew who you were playing with and stuff like this, and in the city, you don't know where you're going. KJ: That is true, yeah. I think you could consider us both city kids, right Kevin? Do you consider yourself a city kid? KD: Yeah. KJ: Yeah, we grew up in the city. DS: Where did you grow up? KJ: I grew up in Brooklyn. D. Brooklyn, okay. I had relatives in the Bronx. KJ: Yeah, it's a different atmosphere. D. Yeah, we visited down there, somewhere in Jersey City, and the others are in the Bronx. KJ: It's a very different change coming to Binghamton from the city, I'll tell you that. DS: Yeah from Whitney Point, where you're driving a tractor to work. KJ: So, you said that there are/were multiple ethnic groups within the community, right? How would you say that affected your life growing up, or your perspective? D. Well, we were always aware of who we are, of who we were and who they were. And it was something that was respected too, okay you're this, you're that, and people identified with what they were. Today, everybody wants to mold it to a mold; you're not this, you're not that, you're not anything. KD: So, does that help you stay connected to your culture? DS: Yeah, and also a lot of the same interests. Music was a common interest, and we had close ties to music. My grandfather actually when he came to this country was a musician and all my--he played the cimbalom and the sopilka. The cimbalom, I don't know if you've ever seen it, it's like a trapezoid instrument, it's played with two sticks. And the sopilka is a flute, so he used to play the flute, and all my mother's brothers and some sisters actually played instruments, so that's why you could say there was a lot of music around. KJ: Are you a musician? DS: I played the accordion. I used to play in an ethnic band, a Ukrainian band from Syracuse. KJ: Do you still play it? DS: When I can. When my arthritis doesn't hurt. My brother plays too, and my sister played piano, and my mom, actually, two of my sisters, played piano. KJ: That's nice. So, music had a very big impact in your life then? DS: Oh yeah. KJ: Was that something that your parents brought over or was that just an interest of yours? DS: I think it was an interest because of how I was exposed to it, because they played, and I mean, my uncle actually, Geraldine, my uncle, he would, he played the piano and the accordion. He could play the piano at the concert level, I mean he could do show panel, you know what I'm saying? He used to just show her off because he was an appliance repair man, and he'd go to somebody and fix their refrigerator and there'd be a piano there and he'd sit down, and it'd be a show. [Imitates show music] And his family was a big influence, he influenced, that's where I got the accordion interest from, and he also turned out to be our choir director in Church. And now his son is the choir director, he died a couple of years ago. KD: How would you say your children's experiences have differed from your own here? DS: The children's experiences? Well they grew up in a different time, there wasn't that much. I mean they were tied here locally at the Church, but not as you know, because you know when this was local, all the kids you went to school with were your neighbors here. And now as we moved out, now you're in a country area. My son was the first group to ride the bus on our road, because it was originally just a field access road, I think there was barely enough room to get the horse and wagon through. And then they finally widened it when they opened the park up there, because the Binghamton Greenwood Park, is right down the road from us. My grandparents' farm went right up to the park, actually my father used to, I used to go there in the wintertime for the milk house. And so, they, they weren't as connected there, they were more just connected in the Church, but they had a different time like I said. They kind of grew up in something different because of the property and the fact that I built my own house, did all my own work. But now they're out on their own. KJ: So, you've seen Binghamton go through some pretty big changes from then, how would you say, what do you think are the biggest changes Binghamton's gone through? DS: Loss of jobs. Loss of jobs and the moving out, you know the children moved out. The people that had left the area, and the industries had left the area all by design. KD: So, if your grandparents were coming to America now, you don't think they would come to Binghamton? DS: No, what would there be for them? KD: Where do you think they would have gone instead? DS: If they were coming now, I don't know what, well for one thing it'd be a different reason why they were coming, right? Okay, things were very, life was very hard there. There was this idea of hey jobs, you could get jobs, you could better yourself, that's why they came. You're coming now, I don't know why they'd come. I mean although there is, there are people that are coming now, but I'm not sure, I don't know that many from Ukraine that are coming. KD: Is there anything about American culture that stands out to you? From all the places you've been when you were in the Navy? DS: Well my answer's quite different between here and like the Philippines. Totally different. Philippines gets a lot of rain, actually I was in some of the same places my father was during World War II. It was on in that there, the people are totting rice paddies, flood's going on. They're standing there with their little Coke, Coca-Cola, on the corner. You know there's this much water up there. KJ: That's really interesting. Is there anything specific that you remember from the War, like in any of the places that you've been to? Any good memories that you have? DS: Oh, they were all good memories. The only thing, I made two Westpac cruises to Vietnam, and the squadron I had, I was assigned to, had just came off of their training cruise. And I wish I could've done both, because it sounded like they had a totally different experience, because we were always going into ports and there was a ship you know, carrier coming in every week, 5000 guys. They had been talking to some of the guys that had come off the Mediterranean Cruise. They went on a cruise that no American ship had been on in like 5 or 10 years. And he says you go in there and the people would invite you in, they'd invite you right in their house. Certainly, a suburb. You'd drink, it was just totally different. Barcelona, Mediterranean, area there. It was quite different. KD: That's a really interesting experience. Most people, I would think, don't have as positive of an experience coming from the War. DS: I was on ship, I worked in the radio pool and I was actually in the Navy for two hours. That was the only time I actually spent on the thing, but we had planes coming up shot up, stuff like that. So there was actually a fire on our carrier one time, plane came in and the main mount broke, so when it landed and the main mount broke it tilted up, and when it tilted up it came loose from the cable that catches it, cause when it lands it catches the cable, and when it did that it reared off and crashed against a bunch of planes on the bow and started a fire. But, they had the fire out in 20 seconds. They had this guy in his vest suit, and he has this nozzle with PKB powder, wet water they call it, and they just go in there and just gut the fire out and push the plane through the other side. KJ: That's amazing. Was anyone hurt? DS: They lost 5 people, 1 was the pioneer on the plane that crashed. He had ejected, but when he ejected he was at an angle, so instead of going up and going down, he fell off that way. KJ: That's terrible. Are you still close to any of the men that you worked with during the War? Do you speak to any of them? DS: No, the only one I ever met, and this was years later, was actually in Owego. I looked over and there was my Chief that was my Chief on ship. I had a bench across from his office, and I looked over and he remembered me. Chief Chancy. He was preparing a training manual for the helicopters that they build here. That was about the only one I've ever met. KD: So, you weren't able to retain your ties with them? DS: No, at that time, I mean, I am buddies, but we weren't that close to where we corresponded or anything. Course there wasn't e-mail or anything like this, you know, so you don't know where in a couple of years, you know they're someplace. KD: So, you must have all came from different areas then? DS: Yeah. George was from, George Brown was from Texas, another guy from Nebraska, and there was a guy from New York here, Utica area. KJ: How do you think that changed your experience, meeting people from different areas? DS: It was, it gave me a great deal of, what's the word I want to use, confidence. That I could be myself, be with all these other people, and still be myself and my identity. You knew this guy and what he did, and they knew you and what you did and where you were from, and nobody says well I can never associate with you because you're from here, or because you're that. So, in that sense it gave me a deep set of confidence, and also learning because I was in Old Giants program, the aviation. That was a tough one. Because I had the, where I went to school in Memphis, after I got out of boot camp, they had the top 20, they would give you a test, the top 25 guys would go on this accelerated course. Well there was me and another guy were the only 2 guys that only had a high school education. There was guys in there that had Masters in physics or a Masters in Math. One guy had a Masters in sociology. So, me and this other guy, we were, they lowered the score to get us in the same class. That was tough. KJ: What would you say is one of your biggest life accomplishments? DS: Biggest life accomplishments? Probably building my house. Making it through. KJ: I would say that's a pretty big accomplishment. ` DS: And it continues on today now that I've retired, and I got a big orchard with over a 100 blueberry plants, 50 strawberries, not strawberry, blackberry and raspberry plants. Make my own wine, make my own sauerkraut. KJ: That's amazing. Did anybody teach you how to do that, or you learned on your own? DS: I looked online. I still can make some wine because I got all these blueberries, so I looked it up and okay, you know, they tell you to prepare it. Put these tablets in and you know here's the yeast, you got to get some yeast, you put the yeast in. Well I put the yeast in and it bubbled a few times and stopped. So, I said, oh, so I went online again, and it said 10 reasons why fermentation stops, and well, one thing was my temperature where I had the wine was too low. It's got to be between 70 and 75 so I kind of made this incubator so to speak, I had one of my electric thermostats, because I put electric heat around the house, I put it in there and plugged it all in. Set this for 75 and that blew up, then I also found out that the blueberries, or wild berries, everything about making wine is geared towards grapes. Grapes have natural enzymes and stuff, so I found out that you had to add these enzymes and also there isn't that much sugar, because you can't use just all berries, because you would get too much undesirables, so you diluted it. I think it was 5 gallons of berries that mashed down to about 2 gallons and I did the rest of it with water. So, you have to add these nutrients back in to get it to fermented. Once I did that and tried it again it took off and made a good batch of wine. So, every year for Christmas I have that wine. KJ: Do you sell it ever? DS: No, you can't sell it. KJ: Oh wait, do you need the license? DS: You'd need a license. In fact, in different years we have berries. I'm getting my own berries and so does my cousin, he has other plants too and the guy that lives across the street had 165 plants. But nothing had been done to them in 35 years, so they weren't able to grow. I mean his brother was 6 feet 6 and he couldn't reach them. He had to get in there and you couldn't walk through them. We actually, my cousin and I, went over there after season and we went in and trimmed them, where you couldn't even walk between the rows. We had them, so you could drive a tractor through. So that's, that I would inherit to my, well no I was going to say from a different point of view, that I attribute to my upbringing, doing don't worry about how to do it, go ahead and do it, you'll figure it out one way, some way or the other. I mean cause not only did I build my house; I did all of my own plumbing, all of my own electric, all the deciding, all that stuff. KJ: That's very strong values to have. DS: Yeah now my son's doing it. He's doing a little bit of stuff, actually I have a saw mill too, I cut my own logs. The addition I put on my house was all done in pine and I actually made the flooring for it too, done in ash. KJ: That's amazing. All the houses I see are brick so that's quite a different perspective. DS: Yeah that was an experience too because I had these logs and I had to get them cut up and then I saw an advertisement for a saw, but it was kind of small, so I expanded it after I bought it and then I expanded it again, so I could get a much bigger log out of there. But now I harvested quite a few trees and ran them through the still, not the still, the kiln. I had a solar kiln that I built, somehow, I had maple, ash, cherry, oak, spalted beech. KJ: So, what else do you spend your time doing, other than all of that? DS: I'm still doing some remodeling. I just finished the pantry and I'm getting ready to do hardwood floors on the rest of the house. KD: So, do you see your family living here for a long time in the future? DS: As long as they got something to do, some place to, you know, some place to, that's one of the problems you know as people move out, finding when they come back they have to have a place to stay, otherwise they won't visit. Okay it's like you, if you were back in your hometown and you could stay at your parents' house, you know even after you get married. Go visit them, you'd probably might visit them. KJ: So, what would you say that you value the most in life? DS: Value the most in life? My religion. KD: So, would you say you're proud of identifying as Ukrainian? DS: Yeah. KD: In what ways does that make you most proud? Like what are the specific? DS: Well I don't think it's a matter of pride, it's a matter of who I am. And I'm okay with that. You want to be something else, be something else. But you know this is what I am, you know I'm not, I'm not a mixture, somebody else is going to build their own house, plant berries, that's what I like to, that's what I do. Somebody else has different interests, that's them. KJ: It seems like you have a very strong sense of identity. How would you kind of categorize what your identity means to you? Like what exactly does being Ukrainian mean to you? DS: It's the Church practices, the religion, the traditions. There's many different, one of the things growing up as being Ukrainian is you have to know who you are and how you're different from everybody else. So, you have a more stronger sense of where you came from, why these things are your traditions, what they are. Why you have certain feelings, you know I have certain feelings. I mean one of them, I have a great love for mountainous area. I mean that was one thing when I went across country and you know everything's flat until you hit Ohio. When I drove home from the service, when I got out, being in flat land makes me nervous. It's like I'm on a big hill but I can't see the edge. But I love the mountains and you know when I look where my grandparents came from, my wife's father always talked about finding the mountains which are a lot taller than New York. But he also had the same thing, he loves mushrooms that was the other thing I, I have a dilemma when I go to the woods because I like to hunt, and I like mushrooms, and I did the logging. So, I'm in the woods and I go well that's a nice tree, I could make a, oh look at these mushrooms, oh wait you're hunting! KJ: Sounds like you have a very busy life going on. DS: Yeah, I just never was one to sit around and do nothing. KD: So, you mentioned that you have a strong sense of who you are and how You're different from other types of cultures. What would you say makes you the most different from any other culture? DS: The most different from any other, I don't think there's that much difference, I think in every culture you have people who are stronger, people that value time and are always producing something. You know I wouldn't see myself as being different, different in a sense that I'm different from everybody else. I just have these values that I worked towards, and some people have other values that they worked towards. KJ: So, we're coming towards the end of the interview. We have like 8 minutes left. KD: How do you think your opinions would be different if you came here by yourself? Like if you were the one that came to America? DS: How would my opinions be different? I don't know if my opinions would be different, what I would face would be different, and how I would have gotten here would be different. My grandparents faced what was going on in that time, and in this country isn't the same as it was 100 years ago when they came here. The situation's not the same as what they came under 100 years, it's a lot different from when I was born. I mean I could still remember my one channel on TV, no microwaves, and it was strange that we were cleaning out my mother's house, she died here on Easter, and we were cleaning her house and there was this thing. And my brothers and sisters didn't know what it was, and it was the floodlights they used to use for making video cameras cause your video camera now, you don't need it, but they used to have 4 big floodlights and they used to walk around to make a 50 minute, a 50-foot reel thing. So, there's a lot of things that are different there, but they're both different here and different from where I had come from, if I was to just come here by myself. KD: Did your parents ever tell you anything about coming over, travel wise? DS: My parents didn't come here, my grandparents, when you talked to them it was the equivalent of going from here to Philadelphia with whatever you had on your back or whatever you could carry. And maybe that trip to get to the boat and come over here, when you're on the boat. KD: Did they ever go back after they came here? DS: Well my grandfather did go back at the time, the one grandfather, my mother's father. The others they never went back. Of course, most of it was that they were from Ukraine, so it was closed up after World War I, after Stalin, Lenin, overtook Ukraine and they corresponded and it was very sporadic. KJ: Did they have good experiences, like do they remember Ukraine fondly or is it more of a bittersweet memory? DS: It's probably bittersweet. They liked some of the things, but life was hard over there, it was. You worked all year and all summer long, morning to night, to survive. KJ: Yeah, it's a very difficult lifestyle. Did any of your grandparents fight in the war? DS: I don't believe so. My father was in the war, my wife's father, he was in World War II. He actually fought in UFA, which was the Ukrainian army. He actually fought in most of the service, and the communists. Well they actually fought against the communists because Ukraine at the time saw communism just as bad, worse, than they say Nazism. There was a lot of guys that came over here that did fight for them and they were scared. They were scared for a long time that someone was going to come for them. KJ: I can imagine. So, we have a couple minutes left, so is there anything that you would like to add to the interview that we didn't already discuss? DS: It's good to see you doing this. I mean it's always good to share what you know. That's one of the things that I think, one of the worst things now is I built my own house, I have all these other things I've done, but there's not anybody really to take any of that knowledge. I mean either from there's nobody that has an interest, which is a problem. I mean we're looking at my parents' house and there's nobody that wants a fixer-upper. They want to go in, give me a TV and internet connection and let somebody else do the work. That's not a good attitude to have. KD: So, have you had a chance to share your story with anyone else? DS: Not directly like this, I mean I always shared with my kids, I mean they know a lot of the stories and stuff and they remember what they grew up with. And my son now, he's on his own, he's doing stuff to his house. He's picked it up and thought oh I want to do this and do that. So now he's doing it. He was just at my place making his own molding for his house. He told molding out and was exchanging it for pine molding. KJ: That's nice. I mean you could consider this your legacy, which is pretty cool to have. You know you're going to go into the records, people will be able to see what your life was like. It's very interesting. Well, thank you for speaking with us. KD: Thank you for your time. KJ: This was very informative. DS: Oh, you're welcome. There's lots of things that people used to have, even driving in this area and what used to be here and what isn't. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with David Sanyshyn Subject The topic of the resource Sanyshyn, David. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Church; Ukrainian--music; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sanyshyn, David ; DeLuca, Kevin ; Jermansky, Kayla Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource David Sanyshyn is a retired engineer and is a third generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born in the Binghamton area. He is a Vietnam War veteran, having served two terms in the Navy, and is active in the Ukrainian Catholic Church. He met his wife, a second generation Ukrainian, in the United States. They have 3 children together and 4 grandchildren, and reside in Binghamton. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-06 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context David Sanyshyn.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-20 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 59:19 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/79d496f0c5af508d2d1c28c99eb611da.m4a 09ec821dc466fa4700bc20f49a171e35 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dennis A. Kalashnik Biographical Text Dennis A. Kalashnik is a Russian-Ukrainian Immigrant and business owner. He was born in Krasnodar Krai, Russia and came to the States in 1991 when he was four years old. Both of his parents are Ukrainian. He is currently married and resides in Endwell. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 52:20 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-13 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Kalashnik, Dennis A. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia -- History; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=DennisKalashnik.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. 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If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Dennis A. Kalashnik Interviewed by: Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Transcriber: Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Date of interview: 13 April 2016 at 3:00 PM Interview Setting: Starbucks, 904 W Front Street, Binghamton, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Logan Bretz: [Music playing in background throughout the interview] Hello Dennis, my name is Logan and this is Heaven. We are going to ask you some questions today. First, we would like you to introduce yourself. What's your name? Where are you from? What do you do for a living and what do you like to do for fun? Dennis Kalashnik: My name is Dennis Kalashnik. I live in Endwell. Here. Locally. Uhm. I ah came here to the States in 91 from Russia but I am Ukrainian. My parents are both Ukrainian. Uhm. I like to fix cars. Eat out. Pretty much. That's about it. LB: You said eat out-- DK: Make money [Laughter from all]. LB: Make money! Where is your favorite place to eat? DK: Uh, probably the Japanese Hibachi places. Either Fuji San, Fushimi or Kampai. One of those. LB and Heaven Germann: Ah okay. LB: Okay. So, where were you born? DK: I was born in what is now Russia. It was Soviet Union back then. Uhm. It's Russia, Krasnodar Krai, which is Southern Russia, near the Caucasus. Yeah, it's a little warmer than here. LB: Do you remember anything from growing up? DK: Yeah. A few moments uh because I was about four and a half when I moved here. So I remember some like highlights I guess, like you know, events, birthdays, stuff like that you know? Cute little scenes from my childhood. LB: Would you like to share any? DK: Uh, well I remember I had ah my appendix removed when I was little. So I remember that. I was like almost three years old. I remember having the surgery, going under and I remember, you know, family meeting us and getting gifts and stuff like that. And I remember ah, in ah where we grew up, we had a lot of people immigrate to the states so it was kind of like a tradition to go to the railroad station and you know, wave people off. And like. HG: That's really cool. LB: Yeah, that's really neat. DK: Yeah. So people would take the train to the nearest bigger city and then take the airport from there to Moscow and then fly out of there to JFK. LB: That's so neat. DK: Yeah. LB: Uhm. So what are your parents like? DK: My parents? LB: Yeah. DK: Ah, my dad is, ah, well he came here. He was 27 and my mom was about 24 years old so they were relatively young. Uhm. Really hardworking. I think they have a strong work ethic. I think that's probably what they taught me the most. Uh, my dad and mom are from ah, well we all go to the Baptist Church here so kind of the main reason why we moved here was because they used to have religious persecution during the Soviet Union so once the uhm, you know, the iron wall was removed, they were able to immigrate and they took advantage of that. ASAP, I guess. LB: Do you remember anything about your grandparents? DK: Uhm, well when I moved away, both of my parents’ side of their mothers passed away when they were younger. My dad was like twenty years old when his mom passed away, so his dad remarried and uhm my mom's mother passed when she was four years old. So I only got to meet my grandfather's. They came here to the states to visit us when we already lived here and I visited them as well, a few times when they lived there, so. It wasn't really a close relationship because they lived so far away. LB: Okay. Uhm. Which family member would you say influenced you the most? DK: Uh, hard to pick one. They're really. We are actually from a really tight knit family where family is like means a lot in our family, so. Uhm. I think they're, both parents were actively involved in our upbringing and you know, so I wouldn't be able to pick one I guess [He chuckles]. LB: And also, what part of Ukraine did you or your family come from, [correcting pronunciation] come from and who do they most identify with? DK: Uh well, my, both of my, my parents' side are uh from like suburbs of Kiev. So, kind of like this from Cherkassy. Which is uh, I don't know, maybe 100 kilometers South of Kiev which is the capital of the Ukraine now. Uhm, and by identify. What do you mean, like? LB: With Ukraine or Russia? DK: I think I would identify more with Russia. I think I'm more sympathetic toward Russia because uhm, I don't really speak Ukrainian. I only speak Russian. During the Soviet Union, everybody spoke Russian there, so only, like during, in small villages people spoke Ukrainian. All the central towns and cities is more Russian. HG: And that was one of our uhm other question was what language did you primary, primarily speak when you were growing up? DK: Russian. Yeah. So kind of more like eastern Ukraine. You know, like everybody there speaks Russian pretty much. Although, I got married. Now, my wife is from Western Ukraine and she learned Russian actually in the states, here. When she moved here, she did not speak Russian at all. HG: Oh, that's really cool. DK: So, I uh remember she said like when she was growing up she would have some visitors come from Russia and they were like looking at them like they were you know, totally aliens or something. They would make of their language because it was so odd for them. LB: Was your family originally from Kuban? DK: Uh, yeah. LB: And when did your parents migrate? DK: When? LB: Yes. DK: Uh, ninety, ninety-one. LB: Ninety-one? DK: Ninety-one. Yeah. It was October sixteenth or something like that. Ninety-one. LB: Did they, did they migrate back to Ukraine and then come back? DK: Uh, well, my dad got married and my mom already lived in uh, Kuban so they got, my dad got married for like a year together in Ukraine and then there's just better opportunity for them and in the Russian area so they moved there. LB: And what did your parents do? DK: Back there? LB: Yes. DK: My dad was a shoe smith. Back there. He owned his own uh, store. He'd make custom made like stilettos and stuff like that that he would specialize in, women's shoes. High heels and that sort of thing. He had his own little gig doing that. Uhm, he went to school for that then started his own business. It was really hard having your own business back over there because you had to pay off a lot of bribes and try to order supplies and stuffs to run your business. It's not like here you can just go and call any warehouse or what not and get what you need. There you have to like pay somebody off to get, you know, supplies for your business, taxes, and all that stuffs. It's hard to run your own business. LB: That's really interesting. I did not know that. Uhm. Do you remember any stories they told you about when they came to America and when you moved to America? DK: Uhm, well. That's, I would say is pretty fresh in my mind too, when we moved here. It was kind of just, everything was so new. You know, you were really, really like aware of what was going on. Uhm so, I mean I remember just from landing here in Binghamton uh, you know, all of our relatives were greeting us that were already here in the states before we were. Uhm, back then it was the only way to get into the states; was the immigration was first open up to Jews. So like our cousins, they had to prove that they had some kind of Jewish roots and they were able to immigrate through Italy and then come here. And we were the first, I think one of the first ones that were able to immigrate directly from, you know, Russia to these to the states without going through some kind of middle country or uhm. So I remember them meeting us here. I remember going to Chuck E. Cheese and stuff. That was like a celebration. That was fun. That was like totally different. You know, jumping in the, you know, big arcades there, and they have the balls of the, with the, all that stuff, that was, that was cool. LB: Uhm, do you have any classic family stories, jokes or songs? DK: Uhm. Well like I said, we are from a Christian family so we have a lot of us when we get together a lot of our uh I guess uh conversation and we would sing a lot of Christians songs, you know and a lot of Russian food. And uhm, so. The games we played as kids growing up here would be mostly like you know, American games, freeze tag and uh, you know, uh stuff like that. Soccer, basketball, even though that was more like we were kind of I'd say we were more like intertwined with American culture pretty quick. Because you go to school, public school and nobody wants to stick out, so [He laughs]. HG: Yeah, and that was uhm, going into that, can you tell us like your school experience here? DK: Uh, well, when I moved here I was four and a half so like within half a year I went to kindergarten. Basically the next following school year in September, I was started kindergarten. At that point I wouldn't, I wouldn't say like I had that much exposure to the American society here until I went to school. And I had I think a hard time at first uh because I had like, you come to school, you don't understand anything. Like what everybody is asking you. I mean like you know, you want to go to the bathroom, you can't explain yourself, you know you want to eat you can't explain yourself. You just hope they can figure out your sign language, I guess you know or you just get frustrated. My, my first, uhm first day of going to school. I was so excited to go and then I remember I came to school and I guess I didn't have the proper vaccination or something like that and they called me out on the speaker, pulled me out of gym class in front of the whole school like made me seem like I was like some kind of you know diseased kid or something like that. They put me in a taxi and sent me home. So, from that day on I hated school. They ruined it for me [He laughs]. L & HG: Awe! DK: First day in. So. Uhm, I mean I just kind of did what I needed to do to get by and. I remember I got lucky actually. There was one girl in my class who was Ukrainian and she was there I think a year before we were and she knew some English. So she would like kind of translate and because of her, I was able to pick it up a lot quicker. LB: That's nice. Did you have any memorable teachers? DK: Uhm, yeah. I remember there was some uh when I moved to Vestal. I went to vestal from second grade until I graduated. Uhm, I remember uh Mrs. Smith, Ms. Smith. Uh, she was really nice like when I just moved there, she was like, just welcomed me very well into that class that I was in. I remember making her project and stuff like that, and you know, dedicating it to her and then, what's funny is I moved to Endwell after I got married and she's my neighbor now. So [He laughs]. DK: So I got talking to her. I'm like oh she has a familiar name. So, we're actually next-door neighbors now so. Yeah, she was the nicest teachers that I had when I was growing up so, that was cool. LB: What is one of your favorite memories from your early schooling? DK: Well, like I said, that one getting kicked out of school. -- I don't know. My family, let's say like some families are very oriented toward education and they push their kids to you know; get a degree and what not. Our family wasn't really like that. They were more about I guess working hard and -- just being decent humans. You know, they would instill good morals in us. We were very --involved in church. -- That was -- that, I think that's the most centric thing in our family, is religion. I think. -- And if like school work or school activities took time away from that, that was supposed to be, I guess placed on, you know, a second priority. So we weren't really involved in too much -- after school activities or anything like that. Did our work. Did what was asked of us and went home. Helped out around the house. -- Went to church. I had a lot of friends around the church and, a lot of kids there, so. LB: What were your friends like? DK: -- There's all of us are pretty similar. Like to play American sports--. Like to, I personally like to fix cars. They all had hobbies around cars, being boys and all. -- Just very active. Just normal childhood. LB: And going back to your school experience, did being Russian/Ukrainian affect the way you were treated? DK: -- I don't, I don't know if it was. Well, we try to stick with our own I guess. When we went to school, at least because we're not even. Although I'd say we are kind of first generation American, but I mean we aren't really. Because--Just being like, kind of growing up in a really big like Slavic bubble protected us I think from too much American influence at once. So when we went to school we would have friends that were you know were just like us that knew our culture. We kind of hung out together so that kind of made us I think stick out a little bit at school so. Kind of, they protected our back you know in school fights and stuff. And nobody really messed with you because you had a group of loyal friends and stuff like that. So that was kind of neat in a way but I also think it's kind of not really good because you didn't really intertwine too much too. HG: Going back to what you said earlier how there was the one girl in your class that was Ukrainian. Did you remain friends with her? DK: --We kind of, lost track after I moved to Vestal, when we were little. But, I mean now, like, growing up I still see her around town here and there. I think she got remarried, got married to a Bosnian guy. So, I see her and I recognize her face but I just say hi or whatever. But not really close friends, yeah. HG: So, you said earlier that religion was very important to your family. Do you mind if we talk about your religious aspects now? DK: Mhm. Sure. HG: So what is your overall religious background? DK: -- Christian protestant which is -- a church that separated from the Orthodoxy churches. -- That being -- kind of based on Martin Luther's theses and stuff that he posted and all so basically that you're saved by faith. And it's not like an Orthodox church is when you're small you get christened into the faith and you're kind of a nominal Christian. Here, you grow up and you have to choose it at your own time. So, when you accept Christ, you get baptized in the church and then. You live, you know, based on your faith and not feel like, because of your parents were Christian and what not. So, that's kind of the basis of it, so. HG: -- Would you say that your religious beliefs have changed or adapted in any way to like American society or is it still? DK: No -- I would say they're probably the same as when people like used to live in the Soviet Union. Probably the same style church here. Hasn't changed much. All the values are the same, all the traditions are, I would say that pretty much all of the traditions back from Russia or Ukraine. Just, when I go back there to visit, I go to the churches there, it's, it's the same thing. HG: So, how many times have you gone back to like Russia since being here? DK: -- Five times maybe? Five times? Our mom would send us back there -- for the summer. So, we'd go there and visit our relatives. Hang out there in the summertime and that would help us preserve the language, the culture, traditions. HG: That's really cool. DK: For our parents, that was important for us to remember the language and so they tried and made an effort for us to go there and -- my mom taught me I think, how to read and write here. When we were at home, she would just take the -- alphabet book and I mean taught us how to read and practice our writing. We also have like a Russian school which is within our church -- on Saturdays. They have -- classes. They get all the kids together and they teach them how to read and write in Russian. So that helps too. LB: So when you would go back to Russia, is it, did it change over the years? DK: -- Well, it's more westernized. You know. During, when we just left -- the Soviet Union fell so there's a lot of poverty there and a lot of -- corruption stuff like that. And ever since the president there changed, it's kind of been normalized and things gotten, there's a lot more order there. Well, you see a lot of the style of shopping for instance, they used to be markets and stuff and now they have malls like we do here too. So, they got rid of all that stuff. And, so you go to the mall, there's ice skating rinks in the mall, there's carousels in the mall they have McDonald's they have, you know Asian restaurants, they have American food, you know. So it's very similar, you know. The transportation system is the same. Cars are the same. They import everything. So it's just like a normal place. The only thing different is you come there and everybody speaks Russian. That kind of startles you. First of all you're like oh that's weird! Everybody understands what you're saying and stuff like that so it's kind of. You get this homey feeling too when you go there. So, that's cool. HG: Do you have like any, like favorite memories from going back to Russia when you would visit your family or just being there? DK: -- Well, when we went there like the last time I went there was in 2009. I got married in 2010 so then it was harder to go and travel because it's more money now and you got bills to pay. HG: Yeah. DK: But in 2009 when I went, --, my mom's side is, --, the relatives that all live there and they're very hospitable so when we go there they make an effort to, you know, treat us to, you know, all kinds of places and take us to the, uh, Black Sea there for instance. We got to go to Sochi where the Olympics were, um, all the resorts there. And one of my uncles made uh like uh a euro trip sort of thing for us. He paid some guy to uh take a van and just take us down to the sea, he took us to Moscow, took us to Saint Petersburg. We got a lot of tourism done. And he kind of made it possible for us to experience the culture there so that was really neat and interesting. We weren't just stuck sitting at our grandma's house or something like that you know, something boring. We actually got to see the country so that was fun. LB: Mhm. Back there do they follow different traditions than you do here? DK: -- like it's just a different way of life. The people are different a little bit. -- Here, everybody smiles I would say, and but you leave maybe behind your back they would say something different. There they just say it straight up to your face if they don't like something. People are more blunt and I think up front; less political correctness there -- kind of like Donald Trump. [Laughter] So we can relate to him I guess. You'll go to a store, you know, if you want to touch something and just look at it they'll flip out on you. Why are you touching it? Are you going to buy it or--? That's one thing is like, customer service is like nonexistent there. They just don't want to waste their-- You know they see if you're wasting their time. Their actually, if you have money, they can tell by the way you're dressed or what not and they'll-- They, they judge you right automatically if they can make money off you or not or you're just going to waste their time and beat around the bush. They'll just tell you, you know, don't-- get along. LB: Going back to, going back to religion, can you describe a holiday mass at your church? DK: -- well, we have-- like I said, our-- our-- origins are from an orthodox background so there's some influence from orthodox churches. Like some of their traditions, for instance, we just celebrated Easter-- the Orthodox Church gets up really early and they go to-- go to church. -- celebrate their holiday-- like we still have that tradition too. Like we'll get up really early in the morning, and we have service at 6 am. You know, we get up with sunrise and go-- our typical service there would've been like-- like we have bands playing. We have a lot of kids programs and stuff. They learn a lot of verses for the holidays. They dress up-- everybody dresses up special. And -- so we even have like food afterwards, so. LB: What kind of food would you have? DK: -- well you get halupki which everybody knows that. So you get that. A lot of mashed potato -- different salads. So-- barbecue going on. Shashlik, which is like a chicken spiedie sort of thing. So a little grilling going on. HG: That sounds good. LB: As you were growing up, was the food different? DK: --, like right now I prefer more American food. Like when I go out-- I like to go out because at home I would eat Russian food and stuff like that and I kind of like American food more, because it's just variety. For me it just feels like if I want to go out somewhere I don't want to pay for something that I could eat at home. Although our food is good, I just want something different. LB: What kind of food would you eat that you didn't like as much as American food? DK: -- I like-- well I like steak and stuff like that like they have-- they cook meat on like barbs but it's not like steak. They do like pork and they'll chop that up and put it like on spiedie sort of thing which is good too -- and I like-- I like burgers too [Laughs]. DK: I like American classic cheeseburgers. Sometimes you want that and you can't get that at home. I mean you could cook it but I'm lazy to do that so. HG: You said growing up how your family would keep like the-- some of the traditional Russian like dishes and stuff. What were some that you remember like growing up? DK: -- We get a lot of canned-- canned vegetables and stuff during the fall. My mom would do a lot of canning like jam, and -- she really likes that. Mushrooms. I really like mushrooms and mashed potatoes and I like-- smoked fish, so. That's kind of-- like if I was to eat at home that's what I'd prefer. And then there's crepes too. You know, your Russian version of crepes with strawberries and put Nutella on it too and what not, so. HG: -- So going back to uh, religion and your church, are you like involved in like any of your church activities? DK: Yeah. HG: Because you were telling us about the Russian stuff on Saturday. DK: Yeah I'm actually a youth leader in our church so I get all the younger kids together and we organize camps. --We organize a lot of trips, like this weekend we are going to go visit another Russian church in Wilkes-Barre. So we do a lot of communication between our Russian network that exists here in the states. So I helped organize that. -- I'm also involved with the choir so I help conduct music. We learn choir music and um I preach in church too. So we have-- in our church we have a tradition where we have like 3 preachers so everybody gets a chance, in our church all the like-- all the men, young and old, so I'm involved in that. And I help out with cleaning and all that stuff in church too when need be. I cut the grass around the building if need be. I plow the snow because I lived the closest [Laughter]. DK: And everybody wants to borrow the key from me because I have it and people forget the key to the church they'll knock on my house to bail them out [Laughter]. HG: So um, is there any like maybe Ukrainian aspects you kind of hold on to or is it just more like Russian? DK: Uh well, you know, Russia and Ukraine are considered two brotherly countries, so. What I mean with that is, all the culture is so intertwined, uh, I really don't even know a difference personally, besides the language. It's just like a different dialect kind of like we have here in the states; southern and northern dialect. It's similar; theirs. All the culture is the same. The food is the same. Maybe they'll have a specialty dish that you know we don't have or something like that or vice versa but everything is-- I really personally do not see a difference. HG: Um, also when you travel, you said you've gone to Russia, have you ever gone back to like your hometown to visit there? DK: Yeah where we moved from all our, my relatives still actually live in that town -- so I got to, when I go to visit--. A few times, I went to see our house there where we used to live. Like, my dad built that house so it was kind of neat to go on that street and you know remember, a few memories come back. I mean you remember playing in the yard, because it has changed since we were. It was a new house when we built it and so the neighborhood was kind of vacant. It was just all new building lots -- now it's all developed. So it's changed a little bit over the times and it's interesting to see where you lived and walk around the streets, familiar places. HG: Yeah, I would agree that would be kind of cool just to go back and like-- DK: Yeah. HG: Look at everything and just see it now. HG: We are at a half an hour. DK: Yeah. HG: Help! HG: Okay, so which relatives or so would you have left like in Kuban, Ukraine, or Russia? DK: Uh like, well all my dad's side is from, while they lived in Ukraine. Umm my dad and one of his brother's moved to Russia. So all his side moved to the states, immigrated here in the 90s. My mom's side, she has two sisters that moved here and one brother. So she has another four brothers with big families there that refused to move here. So they're uhh nationalists, so they didn't want to come here. They consider us traitors for leaving. So, but just like in a friendly way. They're still very nice to us and all that, but they refuse to leave cause. Umm in Ukraine it was a lot harder, so anybody who lived there they tried to get out of there. Umm like Russia, had a little bit easier I think. They had a little bit more job opportunities, so a lot of the people were fine off there. Especially, after the 90s when umm Vladimir Putin became the President in the early 2000s. People the economy did better, umm granted they have more resources to thrive off of. But that did help develop the country, like economically and people just had more opportunity there and they were fine off there. Basically, if you have your own house there that's paid for you're all set, you know. And there's not as much taxes as you have here. Income taxes is like non-existent almost, real estate taxes are almost non-existent. The only thing you may have to pay is car insurance and that's kind of a new thing too. So if you have your home there you're all set pretty much. You don't have to worry about it. All you have to do is to make some money to put food on the table, its close. It's relatively doable. LB: So when you would go back and visit Russia. Where was one of your favorite places? DK: Well uhh, the town that I lived in is Kurganinsk, which is maybe like a 60,000-population town, so it's not that big, maybe like Endwell, here in New York. Umm so there's not much to do there except see your family. A week of that was good for me, then I'd try and split from there and go you know to the resort area or the beach. Places that were more busting and. Uhh so I think that Sochi was probably my favorite time spent. That was the best place to go. You can go skiing there and umm uhh go the beach. Like in the summertime you can go up to the mountains. 30, 40-minute drive from the beach and you got snow on the tops and then you go down it's just like 90 degrees' weather next to the beach, which is just kind of a cool place to see. And very beautiful. You got the mountainous area with like a bay and stuff like that. It's a fun place to go visit. You've got a lot of restaurants and you know beach life there. LB: Have you been back with your parents? DK: Uhh I went with my mom and dad, the first time, which was for a funeral for my grandfather and the second time I went with my mom. She really wanted to go and see her family. And the other times we left everybody at home and just went with my brother, because it was funnier that way. LB: When you would go with your parents would they reminisce with you? DK: Uhh. Not really. Everybody is. It's fun when you are visiting there but when you have something to compare like I mean I could live there if I had to, if I was forced to. I would be able to survive there, like I would probably have it easier than my parents, when they immigrated here because umm I know the language, which at least I can you know communicate with the locals there. Here they had to start from scratch, so I got that heads up if I had to live there. Umm but just the way of life here in America, everything is just more tuned in, for I think the way people live here is more comfortable. Just simple like shopping, like you go online and you can buy anything you want and they'll just like deliver it to your house. There if you want something specific you just got to scratch your head at where to get it. Like they have generic things but umm there's just so much shipping. Easier, the infrastructure here is uhh just more developed then there. They're a little behind in that. Like here you got UPS that'll come to your house you know, just drop it off. There you got to like wait for shipping forever and it's just easier I think here. LB: Interesting. HG: You said some more of your family also came over to America? DK: Yeah. HG: Did you stay in touch with them? DK: Yeah. HG: And have you visited them all around? DK: Everybody moved here first, initially to Binghamton. So uhh, my dad's brothers, my mom's sisters that were here before us. They lived here too and umm half of them moved away. Down South or to the bigger cities like Philadelphia, Charlotte, North Carolina, California. Umm I still have a few families that live here. We have a lot of cousins and stuff. I still have a lot of family that I keep in touch with. And my mom always made an effort for us to visit at least once a year all our relatives so we would keep in touch still. HG: Do you remember having any like big family gatherings while you were here? DK: Yeah. Well we have the Thanksgiving, like not that it's a Russian holiday or anything like that. It's just an opportunity to get together. Everybody has got those days off so, we took advantage of that, to meet up at one of our cousins' houses or our house. That was also crazy times, because you have so much people. Everybody has a big family and the houses aren't that big, so it was really crowded but it's fun. So we did that. And I think we occasionally get together with all the ones, all the relatives that still live here. Umm sometimes after church, for a BBQ or something like that. So we're kind of close, still intertwined and because we go to the same church too. I think that helps. We see each other all the time and I think every relative's family has you know somebody your age. So you got cousins your age and somebody to be friends with and you know it's when you get together, there's not a dull moment. LB: Mhmm. Who do you get along most with in your family? DK: Uhh. My immediate family? Well I have three brothers and I have no sisters. And all of us are like two-three years apart. I'm the oldest. I'm twenty-eight and my youngest brother is twenty-one. Uhh I work together with all my brothers right now so I get my social fill at work with them. I'll see them on the weekends too sometimes, when I go to my parents' house. So I'm very close with my brothers. LB: Within your family were there heirlooms passed down? DK: Uhh. No. Not really. Like when we moved away from there. We just kind of like traveling to the unknown sort of to America. Cause nobody's really been. We had one of our cousins, came here first. They were telling us how it was here. Don't bring anything with you. You don't need anything. They'll give you everything here you know. You got welfare, what-not. T' help you out the first time. So we sold everything we had. We left there. We just grabbed our clothes literally and we came here. So we didn't really bring anything. Just pictures from the old country, relatives and stuff. That's it. Nothing with real sentimental value, anything like that. LB: No. Do you remember what your house looked like? DK: Uhh, yeah, a little bit. It's changed a little bit over the years because we sold it uhh, it was almost done, but there were still a few places that weren't finished. So uhh when I went to visit I could see the changes. Garden in the back, a little bit gazebos, you know, stuff like that. We had an outhouse, when we used to live there and they made a bathroom inside, so those little things. So there is like uhh grape vines on, somebody planted that so. They got like a patio out in the front area and grapevines covering that so you can see like people set up outdoor tables and stuff there. So little changes. LB: And can you tell me about the floor plan on the inside? DK: It was a one-story house. There was like, walk-in, a kitchen. Uhh I think there was like two bedrooms. And there was like a living room-area. Umm we had uhh like a cellar, which was not finished. It was like a hole in the ground, where you could keep your canned food, there's some shelves. It' like different from our basements here. It's kind of like a third-world looking home. The ceiling or uhh the roof was uhh like made of metal sheets. It's not like, you have shingles here stuff like that. Just a little. Small little home. There was only two of us when, two of us uhh kids when we left there so it suited us fine. I remember the backyard had, like uhh big garden and so our backyard was connected to the neighbor across, who had a garden too, so they were adjacent to each other. Everybody lived like that. In the south people planted a lot of their own vegetables and stock up for the winter. LB: Hmm. Were you close with your neighbors? DK: Umm not really. Because it's kind of like when we lived there, we were uhh like Christian-Protestant and that was uhh looked down upon cause everybody, that country, the Soviet Union was based on atheism. And if you were Christian, you were looked at, like the enemy of the state. So all your neighbors kind of treated you bad. Cause they didn't want to kind of socialize with you. You were kind of looked at as outcasts of the society there. HG: So when you came to America, did you guys feel that you fit in better here and weren't like so out casted here, while still keeping in touch with your Russian roots and everything? DK: Well we felt, outcasted here a little bit because you were of a different culture, so it's just kind of a different umm segregation you could say. It's not like uhh you're going to get a hard time getting a job or anything like that but you couldn't get a good job, because you can't speak English and you're kind of weird. They put you somewhere in the back of the office you know. Less paying job. So, you couldn't get a good opportunity - you know good paying job unless you, you know had to get a, uhh you know go to school, get a degree in something. And that's like for my parents' generation that was kind of really hard to do. Because you know, you got two little kids in your arms that you just came here with. You got to pay the bills, so you ended up taking some crappy job somewhere. It's a hard laboring job and you work hard long hours to pay the bills and provide for your family. So we couldn't really move up. The only way to move up was kind of get your own business. Some kind of self-employed opportunity and then you could make some decent living. LB: Who did you get your hardworking attitude from? DK: Umm. My dad was hardworking but my mom's side is like more uhh. Well my dad had his own business there, so he came here with kind of entrepreneurial spirit. He had that. My mom's side is better at keeping money and managing it, so I kind of got a little bit of hybrid from both. So I got the work ethic from my dad but I'm more business savvy, I think from my mom's side. More strategic I think. My dad is just a hard-working guy. You know, try not to be a busy guy. Not to be a busy fool. You know, try to make money. LB: You said you brought over pictures. What was one of your favorite pictures? DK: Umm. I have this one album which is like only pictures of like uhh gatherings and just random day-to-day life. I think that's my favorite album. I have a wedding album that's brought. It's kind of cool to look at. I like the other one because it's got pictures of all our relatives. Umm like our dog we had there. My dad's motorcycle that he had. Just like cool little stuff like that. So I think that's my favorite one. LB: So in reference to weddings, how would they compare to weddings here? DK: Uhh well, for example from uhh if you're in a Christian background, you don't drink, there is no wild parties at your wedding. You have wild parties there too. Like people get drunk. You know make a big mess at the wedding. Or uhh the weddings over there are crazy, like if you are secular. So there's a lot of dancing uhh maybe wedding fights and stuff like that. It gets a little Jerry Springer over there. Umm but our weddings are you know more civil. So uhh like a typical wedding would be go to the cer- ceremony at the church. Then afterwards go to the reception. Umm you have a lot of songs, people wish nice things for you, bring you gifts, and umm we have the cutting of the cake and all that. Which is the same as over there too. HG: Umm going back to your religion, could you kind of give us a background on like your church? DK: Mhmm. Umm when our family immigrated here, there was one or two families that were Russian speaking. They were from the same uhh umm denomination as we were. And we used to visit American churches and uhh it was kind of hard for them to understand so they're like okay. Then a few more families started to move in here. And we were like okay why don't we start our own. So my dad was actually the one that organized the Russian-Ukrainian Baptist Church here. And he uhh him and our relatives and a couple friends, they joined up. And all the families had a lot of kids, like 8, 10 kids. So the church grew rapidly and you get families moving in. The 90s there was a lot of uhh immigration. The church kind of grew to a couple hundred members. And you know kids there, maybe up to like a hundred kids and stuff. So, like 40 to 50 people. So umm that's how it started. We were renting it first and for probably 15 years. Till we bought our own building, which was uhh Farmer to Market Road, across from Maine Endwell High School. The Spartan High School. It used to be Barrion Baptist Church, now it's the Russian-Ukrainian Baptist Church. There's a Presbyterian Church on the corner of Hooper Road and Farmer to Market. We're the second church. It's like that red brick building. HG: I think I've seen it because I've gone by that way before, so I probably have seen it. That's really cool. DK: We get uhh all the city gets together there to watch the fireworks and stuff on July 4th. So a lot of visitors. So uhh yeah that's how it started. Then we had people move to different places and then new people came moved from different states. We really-you don't really have a lot of immigration now. I mean we have a couple families that just moved from Ukraine. Uhh where Donetsk, Lugansk where the war is going on. So uhh they were uhh immigrated there as refugees. But otherwise there is no really big immigration going on anymore. Umm people uhh just kind of moving from different states, trying to look for a better opportunity I guess. Binghamton doesn't have too much opportunity here so people try to get out of here as soon as possible. My dad just moved here there was Endicott-Johnson it was in you know its dying days but it was still working. And he was a shoe smith so he got a job there. He worked there for a few years, then they moved to Texas. Umm, so just kind of, IBM was gone you know not a lot of tech jobs. You didn't have Locke Martin, BAE, umm but. Better opportunities elsewhere we're kind of stuck here cause family's here, the longer you live here, the more rooted you get, you know, you got a you got a house, you got a church, you got a business here. Umm so it's you know like the two lights on. HG: So you said earlier how you also went to SUNY Broome. DK: Mhmm. HG: What did you study there like get your degree in? DK: I was an aspiring dentist at first. Uhh I came here in 2005, I started to 2008 I got my Associates in Liberal Arts or Liberal uhh Associates in Science in Liberal Arts Degree. Did that and then I transferred to Binghamton University. Uhh I went there for one semester, then I got married, and then it was just hard to work and go to school and all that. So I quit that. Umm I wanted to be a dentist at first, like I said. And I think I just wanted to do that; it was to... I thought it was kind of a social status. Being a doctor here is cool. And they're respectable and they make decent money. And that's why I think, I wanted to go into that field. I started shadowing a lot of dentists, who worked in the dental office. And then uhh I kind of changed my mind on it. It wasn't the only way to make money. It wasn't worth all the student debt they're all in. I realized, you can make same digit doing other things. So I started my own business. Uhh I kind of fell back to dental laboratory. So I make uhh dental appliances, like dentures, crown-bridge, partials. Umm so it's kind of related to the dental field but minus the student debt. HG: Umm you also said earlier how you just you got married. Have you ever gone back to Russia with your wife? DK: No I would really like to but it's uhh kind of like a dream of mine. Umm it'd be really nice to, take my son. I have one son. To go there and just introduce my wife to my side of the family and meet her side of the family there. Her side's in Ukraine still. So uhh it would be really nice to do that. Yeah so, it's just a lot more money now. When I just left with my parents, you know you'd have to worry about the bills coming back and waiting for you. Uhh probably you'd just buy your ticket, which was like a thousand dollars and you know just some fun money. Because your relatives you know got everything else, you know the living expenses covered. Like 2 grand, is like more than enough to have fun there. Now it's gonna be like two tickets for my wife, for me, for my kid. So it's like 3 grand there, you know. Then we've going to have to travel to Ukraine and Russia now. LB: Hmm. DK: Uhh so. I need at least 5 grand to go there plus all the bills that wait for me when I get back. And all the time lost at work. You can't go for a week, you know. You need at least 2 weeks and that's Russia and everything. And that's not enjoying you time there. 3 weeks would be nice but working you can't afford to take 3 weeks off here and you might not have a job when you come back [Laughs]. LB: Can you tell us more about your wife? DK: Yeah she is uhh 5 years younger than me. Umm I meet her in New York. She's from Minneapolis. She uhh she moved there in early 2002 or something like that. She came here. I met her at one of the church events, one of the camps so. They came with their youth to our camp like I said our church network communicates. So they came here. Umm I met her after one of these typical camps. Started talking to her. We had a fairly quick wedding. I met her in our church and she left. Then in like two or three days later, I found her number on Facebook, started talking and chatting then texting, calling. Then a month later I went there, met her family. While I was there I figured I would propose while I'm there. LB: Aww! DK: So, I knocked it out in a month. And three months later, we had a wedding, which was here, in uhh Vestal. She moved here. And been married 5 and a half years now. LB: What was her family like? DK: Her family is very similar. She has a bigger family. We only have four kids in our family. They have seven kids. So she was one of the older ones. I'm the oldest in my family. She's the second oldest. So she had a lot of younger siblings still. Umm also very similar. Very hard, you know their dad's a painter, just typical trade work. Umm very close just like us. So she had a hard time moving away. She you know wasn't able to be as close with her sisters anymore because everybody is so far away. But her sister is getting married now, and moving here. LB: Oh wow. DK: Yeah, So she is going to have a buddy to hang out with. She can go shopping. I can do my guy stuff. HG: So you said you had, that one of your hobbies was that you like was working on cars? Why do you like working on cars so much? DK: Umm. Well one of the things is uhh my dad did them. For like that was one of his side jobs. He would fix cars, do body work. So I picked that up from him. Umm I don't think I-- I will correct myself, it's not really working on cars, it's flipping cars. Like buying and selling. So I like to buy cars and I don't know. I just like making money. And I think that's my thing. I found uhh I found my passion in life. Just so I can spend it and have fun you know? Get some enjoyment out of life. LB: I'm hoping I find that after college [everyone laughs]. DK: Yeah Yeah. HG: 12 minutes. LB: Is there anything else that you would like to add, that we didn't cover? Any interesting stories. A story about why your parents decided to emigrate? DK: Umm. Well, so I think my dad just got fed up with, the way of life there. Just the corruption, umm just wanted. Oh also now that I think about it everybody, all the guys have to go to the army there, when your 18 years old. So it was like a like a mandatory thing. Here you only go voluntarily if you want to. So my parents were kind of worried about that. My dad had a lot of brothers, and he knows how that life is. So he can, there is a lot of you know conflicts going on with Russia being involved militarily in campaigns, here and there. So they didn't want us to be stuck somewhere, and have to go serve, you know. Uhh so they kind of avoided that. Uhh nobody wants to raise their kids, to see them go die somewhere you know for some stupid cause. LB: Was your father in the military? DK: Yeah. He was uhh. Like I said when you're 18 you have to go serve for two years. But then basically every. You can, up until you have two kids or up until you're thirty years old or thirty-five years old. You can be drafted back in and be retrained and you have to update your knowledge. So there's always like you always get a letter. Come, go to the military post and go serve for another year or two. So like he was always trying to avoid that. Hiding out in relatives' house. And he moved from Ukraine, which helped. They kept sending mail there. So he was able to avoid that for a while. Till he had kids. Till he split from there. LB: Did he have any stories about the military? DK: Umm. Uhh. Like I said cause of religious persecution that kind of uhh. That that was affected in the military too. Like you were sent to the crappiest jobs there. You had to go like clean and like toilets or dig ditches and do the hard work. Nobody trusts you with a weapon anywhere. You were kind of sent to those kinds of jobs in the army. It's kind of more like a National Guard sort of style is where he was. Umm so, when you were there, people mistreated you, sent you to do hard work. But once he was there, after a while people realized you know, they're honest people, you can trust them and umm he had it fairly easily afterwards. He had uhh a good job where uhh he fixed boots and stuff for soldiers. He had it made afterwards. People would give him you know like gifts and stuff so he gives them nice boots, so they could go home and see their parents. He had a nice little sweet spot he found I guess. LB: Mhmm, he found his niche. HG: So did your dad only serve the two years that he had to? DK: Yeah. HG: Or did he serve longer? DK: Yeah he served the two years. Umm every time they sent him a letter, he was able to avoid it somehow. Some people try to get married early and have two kids before you're 18. I've heard stories about that. Avoid, find a loop hole. HG: It's like 9 minutes. So. DK: I'd say life in the states is good. Fairly. I like it here. Umm still have a sense of patriotism too. So it always kind of sucks when you see, you know, our government's conflicting. There is always this. Russia's trying to inspire to be a world power too and you know, America has its own interests. And it's always kind of worrying, when you hear rhetoric like that. So it'd be nice to get along [everyone laughs]. HG: It would be. Well thank you so very much for taking time to uhh let us interview you. We found it very informative. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dennis A. Kalashnik Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource Kalashnik, Dennis A. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia -- History; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kalashnik, Dennis A. ; Bretz, Logan ; Germann, Heaven Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Dennis A. Kalashnik is a Russian-Ukrainian Immigrant and business owner. He was born in Krasnodar Krai, Russia and came to the States in 1991 when he was four years old. Both of his parents are Ukrainian. He is married and resides in Endwell. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-13 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Dennis Kalashnik.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-20 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 52:20 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/cc6414cb847b92615528f12f157e893b.m4a 360ef79440082a875907dd9be6ef6bae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sarah Joy Hutcher and Erman Sahin Tatar Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Geraldine Czebiniak Biographical Text Geraldine Czebiniak is a Ukrainian immigrant who left Ukraine at the age of seven during the Second World War. She went to Germany with her family and stayed in a camp for displaced people. She migrated to the United States when she was 13 years old. She is&nbsp;currently a member of Sacred Hearth Orthodox Church and resides in Binghamton with her family. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 50:09 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-06 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Czebiniak, Geraldine. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; World War, 1939-1945—Prisoner-of-war camps; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=GeraldineCzebiniak.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Germany; Refugee camps; World War, 1939-1945; Immigrants; Ukrainian Catholic Church Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Geraldine Czebiniak Interviewed by: Sarah Joy Hutcher and Erman Sahin Tatar Transcriber: Sarah Joy Hutcher and Erman Sahin Tatar Date of interview: 6 April 2016 Interview Setting: Sacred Hearth Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Sarah Hutcher: Okay so, my name is Sarah Hutcher. Erman Tartar: And my name is Erman Tartar. SH: And we are here with-- Geraldine Czebiniak: Geraldine Czebiniak. SH: And we are here at Sacred Heart Catholic Church and we are interviewing Geri about Ukrainian life in Binghamton. ET: And first we want to start with how old were you and when did you immigrant to the United States? And how old were your parents and grandparents? GS: I was thirteen years old when I came to the United States I was seven years old when we left our Ukrainian village, our town that we lived in, my father was the principal of a boys school because they had a school where boys and girls were separated, he was the principal of a boys school and we had to immigrate because of the war, going back and forth, so we ended up in Germany when the war ended, World War II, than um so we were displaced persons as we were called then and we lived in a camp, they were schools made into a camp, we lived there for several years and the United States and other countries would take people into their countries to immigrate and that's why we immigrated to the United States after the war and there was a man here that my father's friend and he went to New York and saw this man at some kind of concert in New York and we had to have immigration, you had to have a job over here and a place to live and so this man signed papers saying he had a job for my father and a place to live. SH: Wow. That's crazy. GS: And that's how we came. ET: Yeah-- GS: Not like the way to do it now. SH: Right! GS: So, this friend of my father's found this friend from Binghamton actually. SH: Okay. GS: He was here and he said that he had a job and stuff so that's why we came. SH: What kind of job was it? GS: Actually my father was washing dishes at the old hospital, but it was okay because we were so happy to come here, we didn't care where he worked. SH: Yea, it was something. ET: Yeah, absolutely. GS: And then my mother got a job in the factory and it used to be a shoe factory, antigenic, but not anymore, it's not what it used to be and it was me and my two sisters that was my family, yeah. SH: That's sweet. And so, I know there were a lot of people working at the cigar, like the cigar factory, do you have any memory of that? GS: No, nobody that I know. SH: No? No one that you know? GS: No no one I know of-- ET: And you said you stayed at a camp after the war? GS: Yes, we-- ET: What was that like? GS: Well after the uh, actually, we stayed, at several camps, one camp was run by Germans and we were very worried that we were going to get killed cause that's when Germans were killing Jewish people and we thought that we were in the crowd that we were one of them so our lives were very always worried about living, that's all you worried about, living. Yeah, know? And um, so that camp was-- **Pause because the lights in the room when out.** ET: and your camp? GS: and the camp after the war, when the United States took over they organized all these people, and they had no place to live, they made the camps out of schools, building schools that was very nice because the United States treated us very well. There was no question about it, especially the children, we had extra, special care packages and things like that. SH: Yeah. GS: The children were um, SH: Treated well. GS: Treated very well. SH: And I mean, how old were you when? GS: When we lived there? ET: Seven years old right? GS: I was seven years old. SH: Okay seven. GS: We lived, when we left Ukraine, I was seven and when we left I was thirteen, August time was during the war and Germany and other countries right from Ukraine all the way to Germany. We moved from place to place to get away from the Russians. ET: Woah. GS: And so it was a rough, it was a very rough. ET: This is amazing, you're remembering, you were only seven years old, yeah. GS: I don't remember too many things about when I was little, you know, I don't remember, but the war and hiding, and running to the shelters all the time and I was little and I just, didn't want to leave sleep, I didn't want to go to the shelter but you know. SH: Even just going through that, even if you don’t remember it, still--. GS: Yes, yes, okay, any other questions? SH: Let's see what we got--um so when you got to Binghamton what was it like being Ukrainian here and um you know, did you notice a difference in your upbringing than like compared to like the kids that lived here? GS: I was, well, I didn't know English very well, I knew a couple of things yeah know in the camp you learn how to sing songs and stuff like that, I didn't understand the language, so um I was put in sixth great but I went to second grade to learn how to read and write and stuff, but it doesn't take long, when you're young you learn very fast. ET: Yeah, very fast. GS: A couple of months I was okay, you know? I was right where I belong, you know, and then I went to St. Patrick's and then I graduated from there. SH: Wow. GS: So I was okay, it was okay. SH: Wow. ET: I was just wondering when you came here did you, all family came here? GS: Yes, except my oldest sister, because she was older, she came like three months before we did. SH: Oh okay! GS: We were separated because she was of age. SH: Right. GS: I was the youngest of the three. ET: She have to wait here? GS: She had to, her visa came, her paper came three months before ours did, but it was okay because we knew she was coming here too, she was included in our family package, but she came three months before we did. SH: wow okay. So at least you got to be all together. GS: Yes, yes, we were very lucky because we used to ride together because there were many people, lost their parents or their children during the war, it was terrible. SH: Oh gosh. GS: So, SH: Thankfully you don't have too much memory of it. GS: I know, because it's amazing, my kids, I have four of them, SH: That was one of the questions. GS: Oh yeah? And they just are amazed we're as healthy as we are mentally, yea, but you live through that and your kind of forget, it's like a dream, a bad dream. SH: You got to keep moving forward. ET: Definitely. SH: I've met other survivors, and they have the same mentality. GS: That's right, you have to survive. SH: Just push forward. GS: That's right, no matter what country you are or nationality or the all lived through things, you survive it. SH: Yea, alright, so, where were your parents born? GS: My parents were born. Oh you mean city? SH: Yeah. GS: It's Ukraine, um, my parents, my father and my mother was from Stanislav, which is now called Ivano-Frankivsk, it was a city that they lived in, they were born there and then they, my father he went to school and he became a teacher and then a principal and then he moved to a smaller city and he became a principal of a smaller school it was a smaller city, it was not Stanislav. SH: And I mean there is a pretty decent sized Ukrainian population here in Binghamton, did they know anyone coming over here? GS: Well the person who signed that paper, he was Ukrainian, and he brought a lot of people over and then right away we joined the Church because we were Catholic and they communicant welcomed us so to speak. SH: That's great. GS: It was very nice. SH: Like a home away from home. GS: Yes yes, that's it. SH: It's easier to settle. GS: You have the church, you know. Right away and the church has the same language which was the same so that was very refreshing so to speak. ET: We are wondering; your friends are also Catholic? GS: Yes, that's right, they were, brought up from way back. SH: And so when you had kids was religion something. GS: Yes. SH: That was emphasized. GS: Yes, we were very active in our church and religion is very important to me, to us, and they all go to our church and I'm lucky because all four of them live locally. SH: Oh that's great. GS: So, we see each other at least once a week. SH: That's good. GS: They're all married. SH: Do they enforce it [religion] in their homes? GS: Yes they do. SH: Look at that. GS: So far so good. ET: Yes. GS: One of my daughters, the kids they used to go to the church and now they kind of broke away a little bit SH: They'll come back, they'll come back. GS: They'll come back, I hope so. SH: Maybe they just need a little time, they have to discover their own thing so-- SH: Yeah, very cool. ET: Did you have any household items or relics from the Ukraine in your home? GS: No. ET: Anything you remember from when you were a child? GS: Not anything, nothing because at one time or place where we lived it was bombed so all we were left were what we had on ourselves. ET: Yeah. SH: Wow. GS: We had nothing left so, nothing nothing that reminds me of home. SH: Wow. GS: Yeah so. SH: Have you ever visited Ukraine? GS: Pardon? SH: Have you ever visited Ukraine? GS: Oh no, but I've always wanted to, with four children and my husband, well he passed away, but I've been busy and never had the finances. I never had the money, when I had my husband we had to work because he says, you know, that's our family and we're to bring them up the way, you know, as you should be home which I did, I stayed home for eleven years and then worked, and then you know, we couldn't really afford to go back, I'd love to go but now now I'm too old and I can't walk too good, I have problems, too late too late. SH: You never know! Hopefully. ET: Your husband also Ukrainian? GS: Yes he was Ukrainian but he was born here, he was born here, we got married in our church because he was part of, he belonged to this church, and when I came you know. SH: How'd you guys meet? GS: Oh, in the choir. SH: Oh did you? That's sweet! GS: And I was quite a young bride but you know that was okay. SH: How old were you? GS: I was 19, 20 when I got married, I was young. SH: My cousin just got married at 18. GS: Oh yeah? SH: Which is very young. GS: Very young nowadays. SH: Nowadays, oh my gosh. GS: Because everyone gets married later. SH: My other cousin got married at like 37 so, it's different, definitely different. GS: To each his own. SH: Yes, but yea 19 is young. GS: Yup. ET: Do you think that there is a problem or an issue if they are not from the same culture? Like if not Ukrainian or Catholic Orthodox and want to marry at this time? GS: No I font think there would be any problems, no. SH: Do you think it would have upset you parents if you wanted to marry someone that wasn't Ukrainian. ET: For example, if you didn't want to marry-- GS: No not really. SH: Wow that's cool. GS: I don't think so. SH: I thought maybe they would. ET: Because sometimes a minority wants to protect their culture. GS: Right right, I never felt that, well you know I never felt that they would forbid it or anything like that they just, I got married to a Ukrainian and so did my sister and it just went on, my other sister also, it never appeared, it never became a problem so no. SH: Did you, you know, raising your four children, did you ever have special Ukrainian things in your household that you did, special holidays. GS: Yes we have lots of embroidered Ukrainian pillows, we did a lot of Ukrainian Easter eggs, I font know if you know of those. SH: We just saw them downstairs; they are so cool. GS: Yea they all know how to do those. They're very ornate. GS: they're very very, takes hours to do one, but they like to do this. SH: So your whole family does that? ET: Yeah, it's very cultural. GS: Yea, we love the American ways too but we have our own. SH: That was a question too! GS: As long as, I font have anything against living in the United States, they allow us to do this, to have your own culture, we you know so, we're very lucky, we love the United States, they gave us a life. SH: that's awesome, you keep answering our questions, you're doing awesome! ET: Very good. GS: Oh no! SH: No that's okay, that's a good thing. ET: How long did it take for you to feel at home and comfortable in Binghamton? GS: Um, I would say probably a couple of years. ET: A couple of years, I can understand that. GS: You know when we left there completely different kind of life. We had our own apartment, completely different kind of life, I would say a couple of years to feel at home. SH: Do you think it took your parents and your older siblings a little longer. GS: I think so cause younger people, they adapt. SH: Right. ET: A lot quicker. SH: They're flexible. GS: Yes, they are. SH: How long would you say, did they ever feel totally comfortable you think? GS: My mother, she didn't speak English very well, she went to the factory to work and she worked with people who spoke Ukrainian and Polish, so she didn't. SH: She didn't have to learn. GS: She didn't have to learn English. SH: Did she--. GS: My father did, he knew how to speak English. SH: In your household did you feel like you used Ukrainian more. GS: Yes, I font do that now. SH: I was going to say, are you still fluent? GS: Yes I am actually. SH: That's really cool. GS: My kids when they were little I used to speak to them in Ukrainian and once they went to school that changed a little and in the neighborhood they learned English, and they speak English at home now. ET: Right. SH: Do you think any of it stuck with them? GS: Oh yes. SH: Oh wow. GS: My grandchildren, Steven, has one of my grandsons he wants to learn Ukrainian, at school they're going to give classes so he wants to learn. SH: That's great. GS: It's great. SH: I was going to ask, and, I know I keep asking, did your husband speak? GS: Yes, he spoke it. SH: Oh wow so everyone. GS: We all spoke Ukrainian in the house and you know then they went to school and-- SH: It's hard to enforce it because everyone is speaking English. G: And the neighborhood, big influence. SH: Did you go to college? GS: No I didn't. SH: No? GS: I got married, I finished high school and I got married, I was almost 19 when I got out of high school because I was losing time during the war I didn't go to school, for almost four years I didn't go, it was like no life. SH: did you friends? Did any of your friends go to college or was it more common to just work? GS: Far more common to just work, you know. SH: And just settle down. GS: My children it's a different story, they all went to college, but that's different. ET: We were both wondering at this time did you feel any disconnection from social life when you came here. GS: not really I didn't not really, I never really felt that and maybe it was because we were amongst our own but then when you work, I worked in a hospital, I never felt discriminated against, I font know but I never felt that way. SH: That's good, probably ‘cause it seems more common, it such a large community up here. GS: Could be could be. SH: Now just out of curiosity, with the church population, is everyone Ukrainian? Is there a mix? ET: All different? GS: Oh no, some are married to English people or other nationalities, they come, they want to come they can, and some of them do come, some of them are married and are from different nationalities want to come and do come and they want to be a part of our church, and they're welcome to, and they feel comfortable, wife or husband they are connected in that way. ET: We want to ask, which culture do you feel has shaped you, Ukrainian or American, because you are so young when you come here, you are just seven years old. GS: Yeah, I would say American more. ET: What do you observe in yourself that is more American culture? GS: I don't know. ET: It's a hard question. GS: It's a hard one, American culture well maybe my other question, probably I should change it, because I'm more Ukrainian than American because we keep our own culture more or less so I, but American. SH: You could say both. GS: Yeah well both, that's the best way because a little bit of English and a little bit Ukrainian SH: Yea I mean one of my questions was um did you feel comfortable or I guess assimilated enough to celebrate, oh well I mean did your parents celebrate things like thanksgiving? GS: Oh yes. SH: All that stuff? Wow! You felt comfortable right away. GS: Absolutely yes, cookouts and Thanksgiving. SH: Your generation seems I think more grate than my generation to live where we live. ET: It's true, it's true. ET: Do you see the differences between your generation and the younger generation with faith maybe? GS: yea with the faith maybe a little different, the younger generation doesn't seem to be as connected as or as how you say it connected, definitely not as connected. They're more Americanized, which is okay you know there's nothing wrong with that but I feel like. ET: Are there any differences between the Ukrainian catholic culture and American catholic culture? Also catholic Ukraine orthodox? GS: No, the culture is different than the religion, the Ukrainian catholic orthodox is the same, we have the same services and everything it's just that the Catholic Church belongs to and is connected with the pope and that Vatican as the orthodox does not. That's the difference, but the services are not the same but similar, let's say it's similar. ET: What kind of things are similar. GS: The church service is what time talking about the service itself when the priest dresses the same as ours does even some of the prayers the same but they are font, the orthodox church does not recognize the pope as we do, that's the big difference like the catholic church. SH: and I'm not catholic, what does recognize the pope mean? Do they just not see him as being? GS: Head of the church. SH: Oh okay. GS: Because the Catholics are Latin right Catholics and recognize the pope as the head of the whole church, excuse me, the catholic church has a lot of right and we're byzantine rights and there are 22 right, 22 ways of serving God but they're still connected with Rome with the Vatican, so that's the differ and the orthodox font recognize him as the head of the church. SH: Okay and did you ever have a confirmation? GS: We are confirmed when we are baptized. SH: And what's when yours little? GS: Yes. SH: Oh I was going to say, did you have a confirmation in America? Ukraine? Germany? GS: No no. SH: So you don't remember? GS: That happened in Ukraine when I was little. SH: Little little, that's probably smart too. GS: Yeah. SH: Get that done early. ET: I was always wondering when I was a child I saw some Armenian Orthodox Church, Ukrainian orthodox church. What they are different? Why are they not the same Orthodox Church? GS: Why font they go to? Probably the language, I would imagine probably the language because I think if it was all in English it wouldn't all be different. ET: Yes yes. SH: anything you want to ask? You're like good, you're sticking to the script. GS: I'm glad you're asking questions cause to think about what to say. SH: It's probably so much. GS: I wouldn't know what to tell you. SH: I mean what has happened in your life in the first ten years is more than my 21. ET: I really wondered about this, did you remember the Soviet Union years. GS: Oh yes, I remember those few incidences when the soviets came to our town and our house , I remember we had holy picture on the wall and they threw them on the floor and that kind of stuck in my mind so much and I remember my mother had watches and jewelry and they took everything, and my parents we were just standing there and you couldn't do anything cause they would shoot you, if you say 'don't touch your something like they, when they came it was like ' just take whatever you want' and it was bad, it was bad, yes and then the Germans would move them back and the Germans would take over, and when the Germans would take over my father was arrested by the Germans. ET: Oh whoa! SH: For how long? GS: For a couple of months but the reason he was imprisoned because my uncle had a store and he was helping the Ukrainian underground army, fighting and trying to keep Ukraine independent and they were trying he was helping them and eventually and giving them food and the Germans wanted to know where the main office was and my was uncle arrested and my father, they had him in the next cell and they would beating my uncle to death because they wanted to know, they wanted my father to tell my uncle where is the main office? And where is the army the underground army and my father told them he couldn't tell him, my uncle what to do. So-- SH: Wow, so how old was your uncle, do you remember? GS: He was like in his early forties, like forty-two. SH: Oh my gosh! GS: And you know those boots the Germans had, I'm talking about Nazi's, I'm not talking about German people. SH: Yeah, no, oh definitely. ET: Definitely definitely. GS: Those boots, they kicked him so much he died. SH: Oh my gosh! GS: Yeah, it was terrible, so we have, and then the front would move back, we we under the Russians, we kept moving from one town to the next to keep away from, from being over our enemies. ET: Okay so. GS: That's why we ended up in Germany. SH: Yeah. GS: Because Ukrainian and Germany are quite a few countries, we were in Poland ya know we kept moving so that's what, that's how we ended up in Germany when the war finished and that's when the Americans took over and also when the we stayed in an underground shelter for two weeks. SH: Wow! GS: We couldn't get out because we were being bombed so much that, America bombed so much, it was the end of the war that we had to stay in the bunker for a solid two weeks, we didn't get to change our clothes, my toes were rotting in my shoes, so yea, you know it was a bad time but you know some how you survived, and when they stopped bombing we came out and we didn't know how the Americans were going to treat us. ET: Oh yea yeah yeah. GS: cause we didn't know but they treated us very well, ohhh they were so nice to us and they and like I said the organized the schools, like one room classroom there was like 35 people in one class room, different families and they would give us blankets and there was one family there was another family because they had to put us all together, and you know we had to live like that and little by little different countries would different people, I font know Belgium would take people Britain took people, displaced people and you know like now we have refugees and so that was yeah. SH: I'm like wow. ET: That was amazing, that was really amazing, yeah. SH: I font know, that really moved me. ET: How many friends your family have? GS: Friends? ET: Oh I'm sorry, sibling? GS: My father had my aunt, my uncle, three-- there was four of them, four total, he had a brother and two sisters. SH: Did any of them come over here? GS: Yeah, one of my aunts came. SH: Oh that's great. GS: Yes and she was here living with us but she passed away, once he found out that his siblings, because he didn't know where they were but somehow she got to the United States, and my father found out that she lived here he made sure she came here, you know bring the family together as much as you can. SH: Did you feel like your parent's kind of you know like? Did you feel like-- GS: Yeah, my uncle. SH: Did you feel like your parents sheltered you from that or did you find out later in life? GS: Yeah, they sheltered that. SH: They didn't want you to know that. GS: I know this is terrible but when the Germans came and were going after the Jewish they were throwing babies up against the wall to kill them, because they didn't want to use the ammunition to kill them this is terrible, I get goose pimples so my mother wouldn't let us go see anything that happened like that cause she protected us from seeing things that people and stuff like that, she protected us as much as she could. ET: Did you lose any of your friends? GS: No we didn't we were so lucky, so lucky, my mother had a blessed mother picture and God saved us, that's what she felt you know, that God saved us cause a lot of times. SH: You're so cool. ET: Yes! GS: Because a lot of times the way things looked my father worked even during the war he had to have a job so he worked the railroad station and when the bombs started alarm came, we ran to hide he would hide in one place and we would hide in another and you know chances are we might have gotten killed, but so far, I font know we always got together somehow. SH: That's amazing. GS: that's where we're, very religious because we feel that God saved. SH: He brought you through so much. ET: Yes, yes. SH: So much. GS: The whole family, there's five of us and we didn't lose any, I didn't lose any. SH: That's amazing. ET: Amazing. GS: A lot of people lost their parents during war, ya know bombs and stuff, we were very lucky, we were very fortunate. ET: I know this time was very hard, but did you miss anything about these times about Ukrainian life? GS: To be honest with you I font, I font remember too much to, yea, I was seven years old when we left so I just started school I didn't, you know I can't say that I missed too much for Ukraine. ET: Yeah, I understand, you had a friend before we came here. GS: Oh in Germany I did. ET: Do you remember? GS: I don't remember anyone in Ukraine but I remember people in the camp because we lived there for a few years, about four years. SH: Were there Jewish people? GS: No there were, they were all displaced people. SH: Oh yes you said that. ET: Yes, displaced. SH: It wasn't like. GS: No. SH: Okay. GS: Just a place to stay and from there we came to the United States, no no it wasn't a camp, like you talk about Jewish camps, it wasn't a concentration camp. SH: It wasn't like like that okay. GS: No it wasn't. SH: I think you would've mentioned that by now. ET: So, on one side you have Germany and the other you have Russia. GS: Yeah they kept going back and forth, Ukraine. ET: Oh my gosh! GS: They, the front, they would move back and forth so that happened a few times to us we kept moving back and that's how come we ended up in Germany. SH: Now here in Binghamton, do you feel, not to totally change the subject but do you feel like there are any other, cause I'm not sure, I know the Ukrainian population is pretty prominent do you know of any other populations here. GS: oh yes there is a Polish Community, there's a Slavic community, there's you know, other nationalities that kind of hung together. SH: Do you think they came here around a similar time. GS: Well you know it depends, some of them came after the war sometimes some of them were born here. ET: Yes, because Poland like Ukrainian, also with Germany and Russian. GS: Yes, because the fronts, the immigration more or less. SH: I was just curious, I wasn't sure. GS: Yeah yeah. ET: So, you are saying ethnicity and religion are not important, they tried to save all the displaced people, this is amazing. GS: That's right, that's right, it didn't matter. We were already in camp we had services, they had one room set aside like a chapel, orthodox had their service, catholic had their service other religions whatever had their services this was like in the camp so we got along with everybody, you have to, you have to help each other, that's what it is, when you're in trouble you help each other, it didn't matter who you were as long as you could help. You know, so-- ET: What about your mother's side, we know your father's side, but what about your mother? She's Catholic. GS: Yes yes. ET: She came here-- GS: Well my mother and father, no, none of them were here, my grandmother, she died before we came here so, and my mother had, the uncle who I said was killed by Germans, he was my mother's sisters’ husband so it was that kind of family, but none of my mother's family was here at all, my father's family was here but none of my mothers, they died before they got here. ET: All of them or? GS: Yeah, it was just the father died long ago when she was just a little girl and the mother was older and the sister, the sister was left behind but she died shortly after when we came here, my mother didn't have any family here at all. S: That's hard. GS: Yeah. SH: Do you feel like she had a preference? I know my mom's family came from Ireland and before they were able to get into the country they stayed in Canada for a little bit and she was always really mad they didn't stay in Canada. Do you feel like your mother had a preference? GS: Eh not really. SH: no she was just happy you guys were all safe, alive and well. GS: Yes that's it, right. SH: I'm sure you don't get too picky after what happened to you guys. GS: That's right, that's right after you lose your home and your place. ET: I was wondering after all these hard years, did your father try to go back or ever want to go back because it's hard to adopt here after. GS: No no, this is how, we said, no he never tried to go back. ET: I can understand. GS: No he was happy to be here because it was a free country and you had the freedom which we didn't have for years, no he never expressed that he would like to go back or anything like that. ET: Yes, yes, are you watching the television and news about Ukraine right now? GS: Sometimes. ET: Do you follow the Ukraine? GS: Yes, yeah I do, we do, we do; we keep up. We have a collection for the soldiers you know in our church we have a bake sale and we donate the money we've collected and send it to Europe because we have to help them. You know Russia is not very nice to us, you know Putin is not very nice taking, they're stronger than we are so they're going to take advantage of us but you know, Putin is something else, that's all I have to say. ET: Do you think Ukraine and Russia is close to each other, I'm just wondering. GS: Well I think maybe now because Ukraine was under Russia for what, seventy years, under Russian rule but I think, I'm talking about over there not here. ET: Okay. GS: I imagined inter marriages, maybe there is some mixed up, I really couldn't tell you for sure, because they were close, they lived together so to speak, but we still wanted our independence you know. ET: Absolutely. ET: Do you have any other hobbies here? GS: I love to cook and bake, you know so, I do that for sure, I worked for 38 years at Wilson hospital and not a nurse, I was a secretary. SH: My mom did that when I was younger! GS: Oh really? SH: Yeah, she was a secretary, she loved it, at a hospital; you see a lot. GS: Yeah, um I did, so I worked for 38 years, I retired when I was 69. SH: That's a long time, a long while, very cool. Just out of curiosity, where did you work in the hospital, like a certain? GS: Surgical floor mostly, orthopedic surgery. ET: Just another thing, did you feel assimilated enough to celebrate holidays like Independence Day and Thanksgiving? GS: Yes yes I do. SH: You seem pretty pro America. GS: Yes absolutely, absolutely I'm both. SH: A lot of people are pretty down on the United States right now. GS: No no not me. I mean there’s politics and stuff but I mean that will blow over. ET: Yes. SH: I think it will blow over, I think things are going to get better, it's been weird for a few years. GS: Ehhh it comes and goes, you know. SH: Yeah, it does it does so I think it will, we'll see, we'll give it a few years, oh that was my question. ET: Yeah. SH: Oh okay so I've been to Israel a few times and then I'll come back to America and try Israel food and I'm like ugh this is horrible, do you feel that way? Is there any Ukrainian food around here? Um or do you have to make it. GS: I have to make it! ET: I'm sure it's much more delicious. SH: Any restaurants for it? GS: I hear there's Ukrainian Restaurants around Binghamton, on Court Street or something, but I've never been there. SH: You've never tried it out. GS: No no never tried it out. SH: What is Ukrainian cuisine? Because I've never. GS: Well you know-- SH: Because you like to bake and cook? GS: Okay, one thing is tortes, we call them tortes, they're eight layers of pastry that you bake and you have to put filling between each layer, there's a walnut torte, you know, different kinds of tortes we make, and that's baking most of the time and food wise pierogi and all kinds of soups, you know nothing specific. SH: Yeah, I know Israeli food is very similar to the countries around it, you know like Lebanese food, do you think it's probably similar to that. GS: I think a lot of those countries are Slavic polish, the foods are more or less the same because they're all so close together, they kind of borrow from each other, you know. ET: You know I am coming from Turkey there is a lot of the same food. SH: You guys have a lot in common. ET: Yes Ukraine and Turkey are so close, and they support each other. GS: That's right that's right, yeah right on the border. SH: Are your languages similar? GS: No no. ET: Not much. SH: I was going to say you could like try and talk-- ET: The same basics are for the Russian and Ukraine? GS: What? ET: For the languages? GS: The alphabet is the same but the, you know I speak Ukrainian but I don't understand Russian, some words I might understand but hard Russian, no they are not similar. ET: Actually we really want to say thank you. GS: Oh is that all? Oh wonderful. ET: We appreciate it. SH: You answered all our questions really well. GS: I hope you get something out of it. SH: I feel like I learned a lot. ET: It really affected me. SH: I know I teared up. ET: I almost cry. SH: That was awesome, Thank you very much. ET: We want to say thank you very much. GS: Oh you're welcome, no problem, I hope you do well in school, I know you do. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Geraldine Czebiniak Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource Czebiniak, Geraldine. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; World War, 1939-1945—Prisoner-of-war camps; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Czebiniak, Geraldine ; Hutcher, Sarah Joy ; Tatar, Erman Sahin Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Geraldine Czebiniak is a Ukrainian immigrant who left Ukraine at age seven during the Second World War. She went with her family to Germany to stay in a camp for displaced people. She migrated to the the United States when she was 13 years old. She is a member of Sacred Hearth Orthodox Church and resides in Binghamton with her family. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-06 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Geraldine Czebiniak.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 50:09 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/30c618a53d0a06f84348e0577494274a.MP3 eb5ff021c35eb0ee83efbb42cb2b4002 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Biographical Text Irina Kirichuk was born in Kurganinsk, Russia and moved to Ukraine when she was 3. She is of Russian, Ukrainian, and Armenian ancestry.&nbsp; She is hearing impaired. She came to the United States in 1993, works as a hairstylist, and lives with her family in Binghamton. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jonathan Gurewich and Andrea Esposito Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Irina Kirichuk Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 59:45 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-11 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Kirichuk, Irina. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Armenian; Russian; Ethnic identity; Ethnic--food; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=IrinaKirichuk.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Russians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Binghamton (N.Y.); Deaf ; Hairstylists Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Irina Kirichuk Interviewed by: Andrea Esposito and Jonathan Gurewich Interpreter: Dee Davis Transcriber: Andrea Esposito and Jonathan Gurewich Date of interview: 11 April 2016 at 3:30:00 PM Interview Setting: Bartle Library, room LSG 552 at Binghamton University, Vestal, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Andrea Esposito: Okay, it's recording--Um, so if you wouldn't mind just stating your name and where you were born if you don't mind. Irina Kirichuk: Okay, sure, my name is Irina my last name is Kirichuk I was born in Russia the name of the town is Kurganinsk. It is a small town, and then when I was three years old we moved to Ukraine and I grew up there in a big city called Kiev, and four hours up from there was a small town called Berdychiv. It's a small town. AE: So you grew up in Berdychiv or Kiev? IK: Uh, actually I grew up in Berdychiv. It's like here, it's kind of like New York State. You know how you have upstate where the small towns are. AE: Mmm that kind of what it was like. It's almost the same idea. Jonathan Gurewich: And uh, as a kid did you spend a lot of time with your parents? Did you um-- IK: I spent a lot of time with my parents and my grandmother. And I have two neighbors who are Russian, and another one on my father's side of the family. My mother's side of the family there were some and my father’s side of the family had Russians and then also my father had Ukrainians who had escaped and gone to Russia. And so that is how I was born there in Russia, and then we moved to the Ukraine. AE: Um, so could you tell us about um why they like escaped? Um, to go to Russia? IK: My mother-- I don't remember exactly. My mother had told me the story when I asked and it was a little confusing, but my mother had a different last name, and I said it wasn't, it didn't seem apart of Russian, and my mother explained to me that the family was from Armenia and then the family all moved because of the war. And it just got very messed up so they escaped and moved to Russia, and then that's how she met my father. My father had been in the army. She met him and then she was pregnant with me. And I was born there in Russia and when I was three then we moved to Ukraine because my father had a lot of family there on his side. They begged him to move there. My mom also had a big family in Russia, so where should we go? They decided to move to Ukraine, but every year they would visit the family members who were in Russia. So we'd go back and forth, but I love the Ukraine side of the family more. I don't know why. Why they picked Kiev, but I did. AE: Um, so at your visits to Russia what type of experiences did you have there versus in Ukraine? IK: Oh-- hmm. Well, the two places were different. It was a beautiful city in Russia, and they spoke differently, but a little bit differently. There was a different, there were different words that they used. It was the same types of sounds, but their food was a little bit different also and I just felt as though. Ahh, people were cool (Everyone laughs). My family was cool; we both got along together in both countries really. So in both countries, so in Russia the world seemed different than Ukraine, and I picked Ukraine that I liked better. I don't know why Russia was nice, but it was more hmm, not at friendly, hmm didn't seem as friendly; their habits were more-- how should I say it-- For me, they seemed very strong but Ukraine seemed more friendly. You know like every time you saw someone they said good morning that was different than it was in Russia. So, stuff like that-- Russia wasn't bad, you know it was cool. It was a beautiful city. Everything was there but from my perspective; they were two different places, and I grew up until I was fourteen years old there, in Kiev. Or near Kiev and then I, we moved here, so, and every year I would fly there, to Russia and Ukraine, and just recently I went to Ukraine, but I couldn't fly to Russia because of the war and the problems that are between Ukraine and Russia now. So, I couldn't go visit my family even though they begged me and I told them I can't. So, my family in Ukraine had told me you really can't go there, and I decided myself that I would not go to Russia, so I was disappointed in that. It's not like I support one side over the other; I said I don't care about Putin leave him out of this I love the people and my family. That's all, so it was just different between the two places. AE: Um, so you said you couldn't go back to Russia, how long was that for, like um time period wise? IK: Now, this was just very recently, last December 2015 I flew to Ukraine to visit my family, but I couldn't go to see my family in Donetsk. I couldn't visit them because of the war, they were like right in the middle of it in Russia and I have a big family that I could have visited, but-- I, I, I can visit them because I have the birthright to get there, so there is no big deal for me to actually go there, but what if something were to happen while I was there and we discussed it with my family they were all concerned. They were all very worried. And my father said to me no, and so I respected what my father said to me so I didn't go-- And my Russian family members were upset and I told them, “Well once you get to some peace there then I promise that I will come visit”. So, hmmm. JG: So do you remember uh any activities that you would do uh that were maybe different, traditions that were different between your Russian side of the family and Ukrainian side of the family? IK: Oh yeah, they were very different traditions. Um, hmm, like for Easter the tradition was different we would always go to church and it would be overnight, and then they would make the holy water, and bless us, everyone there and have eggs and cakes and pierogis, and that was a tradition in Ukraine and also we had apples for celebration that was the tradition there. And Christmas time was you know January 7th, was the tradition of Christmas in Ukraine. In Russia it was December 25th for Christmas, but now before the tradition had been the same but it changed around. And, let's see the differences here Russia, now understand that Russia we never followed the tradition there because my grandmother's traditions were from Armenia and my mother, my grandmother and mother came from Armenia so there was that and I was a little bit confused because it is Armenian is it Russian is it Ukraine? I couldn't figure out which one it was. On my father's side of the family they said you had to pick one and I said, but I love them all. I love all the traditions. It doesn't matter to me I love them all (Everyone laughs). I love all the traditions it doesn't matter to me I love them all, so I was just fascinated with everyone's tradition. So like the Armenian tradition was you must when we move to Russia you had to have nice clothes you had to have to show everything polite have food traditions that were handed down that had to be proper and all the family had to get together and stuff like that so. JG: So, when did you uh decide to come to America? IK: Well, I never thought about that it, was my mother who did she had made all the plans and my mother flew to Russia and filled out some forms there, and then my mother said to me we're going to, well we're planning to go the US and I was very excited I thought for a visit oh yay! We're going to the US I was so excited. Oh, I loved traveling and then my mom planned this, and something happened and we couldn't make it, and then my mom met. Bush's Father who was the president before. Dee: Oh, you mean the president before Bush? -- Yeah, yeah he was, he was George too. IK: My mother met George Bush and begged him to let us in and I remember I was very small and I met him, I didn't know who he was I didn't know he was famous and my mother said this man is from the United States and I said, “well, oh it's nice to meet you” (everyone laughs). I couldn't hear anything so I just shook his hand and my mother explained and begged him and said please let us come to the US, and he signed the papers; we needed to do that in 1993. So that's when we moved here, and then a few years-- I thought we would be here for a few years and then go back and my mother said no we're going to live here and I said what? I was so upset at that time I was very upset, but and plus I asked my mother why is it that we moved I don't understand why we moved; don't you like Russia, and she said no what she wanted me to see me have a good life for myself here because of being deaf there; were more opportunities here in the US. There are interpreters. In Russia and Ukraine, it is very different it is very different, it is very difficult there for deaf people it's more oppression by hearing people of deaf people there which means they tell you, you can't do this you can't do that and you don't have any freedom like you do here. Here, we have so many more opportunities to do whatever; it is you want and in Russia they tell you, you can't. Like I wanted to be a doctor and they said you can't be a doctor; you're deaf. Here I could've if I wanted to and so my experience. Here, there is a very good life here I could have a good job here, get good money here and earn a good living, but it's a little boring for me right here it's like well-- Let me explain a little bit um, good job, and family, and it's always like very family oriented. With uh in Russia you have good friends and family and you enjoy yourself so much, and once you're done with work you meet up with family and friends and do things and money is not so great. Would have been better there if we had the money with the family. For my perspective, I like Europe because it is more active, there are more things to do. You can keep busy, you can enjoy yourself. Here it's a little bit different. I think I've lived here for twenty- let me see here--yea, twenty-four years I've lived here. When I recently flew to Ukraine I was so excited to go there I know times have changed but I was still just thrilled to being, doing things and being there that time just flew for me. I was there just a week and I said there's no way! You know, I wanted to be there three weeks. I wanted more, it just seemed like not enough time, and here I feel like ehhhh, and (everyone slightly laughs). You know I try to be positive about things and keep busy and have my kids, do things with my kids. So it's a different feeling. AE: Um, you said that your first few years here you didn't want to be here like is there any particular reason why you didn't like America at first? Or-- IK: Well the first time when I moved here I didn't know how to speak English and I didn't know any American sign language so I couldn't communicate, and with my friends I felt like what do I do and my father told me just be patient give it a couple of years, two or three years and then we'll move back to Ukraine and my father said I promise and I said fine. So I was patient, I went to school it was a mainstream school it was not a deaf residential school it was a mainstream school so I went to the school and it was hard to try to lip read and try to learn English and every day I cried and I'd ask my teacher I don't understand can you repeat. And just went along for three years and after that my dad said are you ready to go back to Russia and I said yes dad come on let's go I was so excited I was jumping for joy, but for some reason something happened with my family to try to fly there and my sister was here as well and my mom stayed so it was just my father and I. So my mom wanted to stay in the US with my sister and I didn't want to I wanted to go back, and then I realized and my father said to me, we'll go visit if you decide that you want to stay, you want to move back we'll do that so we visited and realized wow I could see that--I decided I didn't want to stay I had to come back to the US because I, I, I don't know why it just hit me all of a sudden cause deaf people had warned me from Ukraine that you should stay in the US. Because they could see that I was happy. And they were grumpy all the time, and it's not that they were not happy before they were very frustrated with things they were very stressed; they didn't have enough money to pay the bills there was so much going on. There were problems with doctors and I realized that oh my goodness I asked my family and they'd say are you okay? And they said please you should go back. Visiting is fine, but living here is not good for you and I realized after came back I realized that I just have to stay positive and stay here. That was the same with my husband. I married my husband, he's from Ukraine, and he moved here and it was the same sort of thing he was very upset, he was not happy being here he didn't want to stay here he wanted to go back, and he begged me, and begged me and I promised him just be patient we'll see what will happen after one or two years. And I said now this is for me, it's for me, if you love me you should be patient to stay here for a while my husband said okay and he stayed and I felt bad, but I decided if you want to move back to Russia we will or the Ukraine. My husband decided no thanks, I can't, it would be better to stay here so we've been happy here ever since. It's just given me very much opportunity better life here than I could have there. Better job and for me being deaf in the community it was a good opportunity, I had interpreters I had everything I needed here and hmm-- it's just more free, like whatever I want I can do. There they were constantly telling me I can't do things. I tried to learn and they said no, you can't you can't do that you. They would limit me and now it is more free, but it is not as free as it is here, it's not. JG: So when your parents first came to the United States did they decide to come to Binghamton or did you move to Binghamton later? IK: No, Um, it's funny, the government had given us tickets for the family to move and because it was through the government's assistance they were giving this away to people who they would say here is where you have to go, and my mother did not know what it was and I was hoping to stay in New York City, that's what I was hoping because I had flew in there and I was just fascinated with that place I loved it so then we stayed at the airport to wait, and they had to check our names and make sure everything was in order, and there was a huge line of people and they'd said where are you going to be going and they told us we were going to Binghamton. So we got on the airplane, little teeny airplane and came here it was so small I had never seen anything so small, but um so we moved here. And we had an apartment, and they, we had everything, it was new because the government helped subsidize it for us and they had apartment, food, and clothes, everything was there the bed, it was furnished! So we were, I was really lucky. And my friend who just recently moved did not get an apartment had to do all of this for themselves, they had to look for themselves, they had to buy the food for themselves, like when I moved here in 1993 they provided everything to me, but now my friend who just recently moved did not get that. And immigration has become much harder it was easier uh when I came, but um and the government told me where to come and I came here and I've never gone anyplace else, I've always been in Binghamton the whole time. My life until I got married, my children were born here in Binghamton, so we're all here. Because I realized I wanted to go to New York City, and I'm realizing now that it's more quiet here it's more comfortable here, I can afford things better here than in New York City. New York is very expensive because I've asked my friends what do you think do you like life there and they said yea but we have to work so much to afford everything so I'll go traveling and have my enjoyment that way. AE: Um when you uh moved here what did your uh parents do for a living, was it hard for them to find a job or did the government help? IK: No, uh actually my parents moved here and started going to school. Yea my parents went to school they went to BOCES and studied English first of all to learn English, and then the government helped with everything, and my parents and my family for money they started, they gave us food stamps. Uh, we had Medicare we had all the assistance until my father was ready then. My father wanted a job, but he didn't know how to communicate in English yet, so my father got pretty grumpy about that. I think he studied for two years and then he started working from BOCES; he got work as a mechanic he would fix lights he was very happy with that. He went along with that, but he felt it wasn't enough, he wasn't satisfied. And I was in my school, just being in high school main-stream here and then a few years later they brought an interpreter for me, my father was working very hard and then went back to school because he wanted to study to be a truck driver, a long-haul trucker, so he was successful at that and now it's been about fifteen years, oh maybe seventeen years now he's been that kind of work. He's very successful, he's very happy. My mother never did have a job she stayed home and took care of her children, me and my sister, and my father was the only one who ever worked. And that was all-- And also we didn't have any family here me my sister my father and my mother just the four of us that was it when we moved here we didn't have any other family here, we didn't have any friends we started to build our group of friends, but in the start, at the beginning it was it was very we were very lonely, we were very grouchy, we didn't understand things. But then slowly things built up, and now I have many new friends, and my circle has just grown. And no other of my family has moved here, it's just been the four of us, and my father wants to try to bring my grandmother here and she doesn't want to. She wants to stay there she said my blood is in Ukraine period. This is where I stand. AE: Um, when you were building up your circle of friends did you find them to be more Ukrainian immigrant or people from just around Binghamton in general? IK: Well, actually I had friends from school from all over the world, Vietnam, Africa I met a lot of people. My first experience when I moved here, I had never seen colored people, people of color ever. Never ever, people from Vietnam, people who were black, people from the world I had never seen. I thought, I said to my father where are these people from their skin is black my father said because really in Ukraine and in Russia it was only white people we're all very the same, very homogeneous. And then I moved here and my jaw would drop you know, it's cold here you have to wear long sleeves and you know I had never seen this sort of thing like fruit in the winter we never had that, they have fruit here in the winter like I said how do you get fruit in the winter, how do you get strawberries in the winter, it's winter, how do you do that!? And my father said, well he was also shocked by this. Oh this stuff is good even though it was winter and there were all these things that were new to us, the clothes that we were weird, we had never seen things like this, my eyes were always popping out my head, you know, he'd say it's not nice to stare at people with your mouth open so close your mouth. Yea, but now I know how it is. And I have friends from Ukraine, there are a lot of people from Ukraine here, a whole lot of people and uh Russia too. So I've gone through becoming friends with them chatting with two of the Russian church's they have, they have a Ukrainian church as well they have lots of different religions from Russia and they don't match me too much. And mine was its, O-R-C-H-E-N, Orchen was the name of the church, and that's the one that I had gone to and they have two languages, they would speak Russian, and they would speak English, it was better for me to help me learn. AE: So, you went to church when you were a kid and when you got older you stopped going or was it something else? IK: Hmm, Anytime, in Europe I would go to church any time whenever I wanted to, I could go or not go. Then when I moved here I went regularly it was every Sunday I went, and I was grouchy about that (everyone laughs). But I had to attend church until I said to my mom why is it I have to go to church, I don't believe in what they teach, and my mother said that's not nice to say, and I said I'm just being honest with you. I believe in Jesus Christ but the church is not helping me at all they tried to explain all these different rules and I feel like what are they. Because my grandmother, my grandmother had told me always you have to believe in Jesus Christ and one God, it's not the church, it's Jesus Christ and she would explain when they tell you these other things, blah blah blah -- All these different religions, different stories and my mother said it's called like a tree. It's like a tree, there's a catholic church, there's a Baptist church, there's all this and I'm not against them it's just my mother and my grandmother told me what's important is in your heart and talking to God and that's it. That's what I follow, so I was patient to go to church until I asked my parents and said to them. Because I can't hear or understand what they say anyway so I would stand around for nothing, it was very boring for me until they brought in an interpreter and then I was more inspired there because I could understand what they were talking about and the topics they were talking about it didn't matter if they were speaking Russian or whatever. I couldn't hear what they were saying, but I tried my best to lip read but it was very hard for me because the priest would you know moving around, couldn't read his lips as he was changing his position and it was until it was I was 1993, I graduated I stopped going to church after graduation. That's when I had stopped, then I went once and while for Easter services or Christmas or some sort of special event or if we needed to pray for my family or if there were problems with the war. We would go to church to pray for that, and I still have the faith. I'm never rude to people, I don't mean to insult anybody about church, just want to let you know. AE: No. JG: No, not at all, so overall how would how, how was your childhood influenced by your Ukrainian and Russian and Armenian heritage, and how did that uh come with you to America? IK: Hmm, good question. I grew up, I had a lot of experiences growing up and also I was confused and language was confusing, but I'm really very thankful to my mother and my grandmother for teaching me three languages-- I just grew up the same in all three places in Ukraine, Russia you know. I don't remember all of it. You know I was always playing outside a lot and did that sort of thing and learning how to communicate, but my family, my whole family knew that I was deaf, and so they would teach me a lot, every day they would teach me the three different languages and now I feel like I can speak all these languages, and my two kids as well are learning I'm teaching them as well too. Like how to speak those languages. DD: You mean-- let the interpreter make this clear, do you mean Ukraine--Ukraine and Russian? IK: Yes. JG: And have you ever visited, uh, Armenia, or have you ever engaged in your Armenian side of the family? IK: No I never have. I never visited there, but, it, I've never gone to visit. I've always visited Russia and Ukraine. It's been-- hmm-- I moved here and we would go back every year, and then I didn't visit for ten years and finally I just recently went in December. I flew there and I was very thrilled because I was so far behind seeing people and Ukraine has changed a lot because I haven't seen it in ten years! There were many changes there-- Yeah it's different now. It wasn't like it was when I was there, it's not like my Ukraine, I liked how it was before. Now with the changes-- Hmm-- It just feels like-- It's confusing, it's startling, because it's changed. Now they have mixtures of uhh people of color, people intermarry with people of color, so that's a big change. It's more expensive to live there now-- and people seem all grouchy all the time, it's like-- and I realize that, oh, I do not want to go back, I'll go to visit, and that's all, and that's just my opinion. Yeah, I don't want to go back. But, I do have a house there and I miss my family there, but just to visit, and see everybody and do that, and then come back here. When I came back home I missed it here so much it's like the opposite of how it used to be, I don't know. AE: Umm did you take your family with you, when you visited Ukraine recently, or? IK: No, I went by myself. I went by myself. Next year we're definitely going with the family. My kids have never been to Ukraine, my daughter's never been to Ukraine because it was ten years ago. My son was two years old, eh, or, no he was nine months old when we went, or, we went when he was nine months and eighteen months and he doesn't remember anything of that, so we've decided that next year, we are, I am going to go with my husband and my two kids and we've decided we are going to fly there to get this experience for them, to get this exposure for them. And also-- I'm hoping that Ukraine and Russia will have ended the war by then and they'll be at peace, so that we can go to Ukraine and then go visit Russia to Donetsk back home. I hope you know I'm hoping, I've I've promised my family we're going to go there. And, and also to go to my family in Armenia, my mother has a huge family there in Armenia, and-- and, also, some have gone-- to, to Israel and I've never visited there either-- so they keep saying, "when are you coming? When are you coming" I say I will-- but-- yeah-- my only tie is really to Ukraine, I feel pulled there, that's my favorite place. I don't know. Hmm. AE: You can go. JG: Have you been to other parts of Ukraine? Uhh, in other regions, maybe in the east, or the west? IK: Uhhh-- I have gone a lot to the east, in Ukraine, umm, hmm, the name of the town is-- Zhytomyr. It's a very small town, and I would go to Kiev, which is the big city, and also-- Lviv is a big city there as well, that is very strongly, Ukrainian, people's traditional dress, and it's more like the countryside-- it's more like the countryside-- so I've gone travelling there, and on my father's side there are a lot of people who live there-- in Donetsk, and also part of Ukraine also, so I've travelled to visit my family there, and also-- it-- let me see what's it called-- oh, Crimea-- also in the Crimea. Do you know about Crimea? JG: Yes. IK: Yes, that's, I went there, and that is part of Ukraine but it's already been stolen by the Russians. But yeah, and I would always travel in different cities, in different cities around big cities a lot, I would go to my father would always take me travelling with him, a lot. JG: And, when you would travel all over Ukraine did you notice a very big difference in the culture of these different places? Or was it mostly the same? IK: It was a little different-- like, the buildings would be different, the architecture, but it was the same food, it was the same clothing, but the buildings were different the churches were different they had different shapes in the different places. And also museums were a little bit different in the different places. And you know, cars would be different (laughs) sometimes they'd have the older cars that I'd never seen (laughs) before-- And the houses were beautiful, they were like, they looked like museums themselves. They were just-- I don't know what to say just amazing houses, and some I've I've never seen I said, "dad is that a museum?" he said, "No people live there." I said, "What, really? The house would look like a museum." He said "no really it's a house, really." But yeah, they're beautiful. And also-- they had an old house like from-- what would you call it-- uhh what's it called-- outside where they cut the plants, a house, where they it was like old fashioned, it was very fascinating that people still lived there, and I asked my father about this "Do you mind asking them?" because people don't understand me when I speak sometimes so I asked my father to ask,. He said "hey, my daughter wants to know how you live, how you protect yourself from the, oh, from the water coming through the roof that was made from plants?" And they would cut down trees and use this for their roofs and it was amazing to me, it was very old but still was working so it was very cool-- yeah. AE: Umm, did you travel other places besides Ukraine and Russia? IK: (long pause) Uhh-- yes I have gone to Poland, ummm where else-- Germany-- hmm where else-- Germany-- and well here I've gone to like the Bahamas the Dominican Republic, things like that, but in Europe, growing up when I moved here at 14, I moved here, so, what I'd done is more travel around the U.S. and in the U.S. I've gone to Puerto Rico, I've gone to the Dominican Republic; I've gone to the Bahamas, Mexico, things like that, on vacation. Always like during the summer. But, I still travel, I love traveling, I love learning about different places, I love all the differences of how they are and the different countries. Now last year were supposed to we were planning to go to-- Italy, we were planning to go to Italy but it never happened. IK: because everything got messed up, we had a lot of conflicts. So again we're hoping, we're hoping that we'll go sometime maybe during the winter we'll see. But, I, I really want to go to Spain. Yes, I, I have promised that I'm-- and so we'll see, we'll see when that will happen. Because my kids have school, and their sports and all that I can't ignore my kids I want to leave once they finish school we can go as a whole family. So-- AE: Umm, so, h- for your kids-- umm-- how have you been exposing them to-- the culture that you may have grown up with, or do you go, like, go more towards the American culture, or a hybrid of both? IK: I use both, we have a mixture of both that we teach them. Sometimes my kids will be like-- they'll find out something they'll see a picture they'll say that's really cool I've never seen a house like that and then I'll explain to them that it's like well that was like from my grandmother and grandfather's time you never met them they had died and they'll say if they had different clothes back then and I'll explain that, and the food, I explain about the food sometimes my husband and I still speak Ukraine at home. We and my kids will listen say what is that so we teach them that too, and always when we go out we speak English, but at home we speak Ukraine my husband and I talk abo- talk all the time in that and my kids don't if we don't want them to know some of the words sometimes-- We'll speak and they don't get it-- So I'll hide what I'm saying with my husband sometimes by them not understanding and also I'll speak to them and they'll understand but I want them to be able to speak back to me in it and they're not so good in that. They just know a little bit, of, of speaking back to me. If it's something difficult they can't do it, but uh I've been thinking of setting up, maybe, because I have umm my mother-in-law and my uncle, they're willing to have my children stay with them for three months during the summer and learn how to speak the language there so I've been thinking about that and uhh we have the food we have the culture sometimes though they'll ask me, "how did you meet dad? How did you meet?" And I said well he's from Ukraine and they love listening to that story they love hearing about other countries and also my father also explains to them as well, and he'll tell them about his experience and his history in Ukraine, and all that, because he had more experience than I did, so he can explain everything and my kids are just fascinated they'll ask him questions forever they're fascinated with this and then they say now how the toys are different than they are here they don't have these kind of dolls, like, different kinds of toys, and they'll ask my dad about that. And cars that are different, and I have dolls from I have twelve dolls and my kids would say wow why do you have them I've never seen these kinds of dolls and I would explain well this is is a tradition from where I grew up and it was cool. So now, I allow them to play with them. They've noticed the cars are different and-- you know, like, valuable silverware and cups and from Ukraine I show them and they say "oh so this is from Ukraine it's very decorative" it's like clothes also that have a lot of stitching on them from Ukraine, a lot of embroidery, and they say now why's that? And I say it's a tradition that they have in Ukraine for that. And sometimes they'll find something in school and say "hey mom look what I have there's a book from Ukraine it's talking about a story from Ukraine and they will read that a little more. And I've explained everything to them they ask me if they want to know I explain to them because they love it and sometimes I'll say to my father "can you explain to them in more detail about what they're asking (Andrea laughs) and they're just, huh, wrapped attention to him, and it's, I'm shocked how many questions they have about it and he always explains everything they ask, he's always done that he always explains and sometimes I try to bring them to church to see how it is-- how they have Ukrainian eggs, things like this Ukrainian art, at the church, things that are different and they'll say this is really cool oh these are all Ukrainian? I say yes they are they say why this is why they have the building this way because? And they have very popular wooden eggs and wooden spoons and things like this that they have in Ukraine. AE: Umm did family from Ukraine ever visit you at Binghamton? IK: No, hmm. We've tried, we tried to get a visa for them but it's not easy to do. So, we've tried, huh, we tried to bring them here we tried to bring family to visit and one problem, this biggest problem is the visa. I don't know why that is, you have to put down you have a job you have to fill out all this stuff and they still denied them a visa so I don't know why I don't know why there are many times; I think maybe about thirty times we've filled out a visa application so it's been every year and it's never been accepted, never been approved. And, so we're always the one's to go there and visit, and I don't mind, I don't mind, I'm not complaining about it, that's how it is. Also, they can't really afford to come here. Like for example, here if you have $100, there it's like 2,500, so, it's-- they work and they earn like $20 a month. So, there's no way they can afford coming here. Hmm. And it's uhh the different economy, we have very different economies-- many Europeans or Russian or Ukrainians want to come here and get jobs here to earn the money, they don't want to live here they want to get the jobs here, and-- (Dee clears throat) the problem is having no one can speak English. So-- and also, I'd ask my family how can you eat how can you afford to eat they said Well first we have to buy food we don't have anything left for clothes, or for their electronics things like that, but thank God that I'm here and this is good here and I always support them I will give my family things they need I will give them what I can what they need. AE: Umm what do you and your husband do for like employment here? IK: My husband-- well was laid off two years ago. He used to work for Pepsi he was the manager at Pepsi. And he was laid off. So I now am a Hairstylist and Cosmetologist, and I love it I love my work. JG: Have you always wanted to be a hairstylist? IK: Uhh umm when I was little, I'd would always go to the salon and watch and learn how they did things with nails and dream that when I grew up I could do this, but what I really wanted to do was become a doctor. That was my dream to become a doctor. And then, I was told no; you can't you can't you can't you can't. It's a long story but I decided to change and try for my second path, which was hair styling and I love it was really my dream, has always been to be a doctor growing up. I told my parents I want to be a doctor I want to be a doctor; I promise I'm going to be a doctor but then life just messed me up. Hmm. But, I love doing hair, I get to meet a lot of people, all the people who I work with know I'm deaf, they know I can speak somewhat, and, if they speak quickly I don't understand I have to say "can you slow down?" and then I understand them but uhh me and my boss, we get along very smoothly. Everything works out and the customers who come in works very smoothly we've never had a problem (knocks on table) and I have to knock wood after I say that. Of course! But I'm very happy with that. Now before, I had worked as a teaching assistant and this was for kids this was for three years and I had to quit that, and then, I went back to school, to study Cosmetology, and I've become certified and licensed and so now I have my job and I'm very happy with that. And before I-- just stayed at home and watched my children and my husband had worked for Pepsi for many years and once he was laid off he tried to find a job and he was unable to. So we're waiting to see if he finds a different job. AE: So how long have you been working as a hairstylist and Cosmetologist? IK: Ahh let's see it hasn't been long time, it was just recently let me see-- let me see-- hmm-- four months, four or five months four or five months-- hmm-- since licensed, since being licensed. AE: So, umm, you said it was a, uh, cool story about you and your husband met? So, like, you care to share? IK: Hmm, ok! I was here, and my best friend was getting married, and she sent me an invitation said you have to promise to come back to Ukraine for my-- to be the maid of honor for my wedding. And so I flew to Ukraine, and I stayed there for one month and a half. I stayed with my grandmother that time, and my grandmother was ill, also she had a stroke so I was taking care for her. I was going between her and my friend's house, and then my friend had her wedding, and I asked her who that guy is over there? And my best friend said "Oh my, he's a handsome guy!" I said yeah, but who uhh, do I know him?" "No you've never met him." "I said fine, but, that, was my husband." And my best friend said that they said to her, who is that girl over there? She said, she's beautiful. I said Well yeah, (all laugh) so that's kind of how it went. And I had a boyfriend already at that time, so, it just happened my best friend's wedding and I met him. We looked at each other it was very nice; we chatted and he spoke very fast and I said now uhh speak a little more slowly so that I can understand you. So that's where I met him at the wedding and then we just fell in love right away, it was very quick, and then-- he didn't know that I was from the U.S., because I didn't tell him, and he knew that I visited my grandmother all the time, he knew where I lived there with my grandmother every day he would come to visit and help and do that. And then, at the very end, we'd been dating maybe I'd say, oh, two months, no no no, two weeks, two or three weeks; we were dating, and I said to him, "you know I do have a boyfriend." He said I don't care; I do not care where's your boyfriend he's not here right? I said "Right! I just want to tell you the truth you don't care? Ok fine." So we dated, and-- he showed me around new buildings and things that I'd never been. So, I got to learn about these new places; I'd never visited before and finally I said goodbye I won't see you and he said what are you talking about you're teasing right? And I said no, I'm not! I won't see you again! This is it. And he thought I was joking. And I said no, I'm not joking I'm telling you the truth. And he said yeah right sure; I'll see you tomorrow and I said no, I'm going to be, going I'm flying away tomorrow and he said no no, I don't believe you, you're teasing so, he gave me a kiss I flew away. And, he stopped by my grandmother's house and says "where's Irina Where's Irina where is she?" she says well she doesn't live here she was just visiting she lives in the U.S. and my husband was shocked, but I had I had already told him he didn't believe me (Dee laughs) he thought I was teasing. So, ok fine. So, he decided to ask my best friend whose wedding I went to he said do you have Irina's address. Do you know how I can contact her? She said Well fine and she gave him my address, so he kept in contact with me he would write to me back and forth and while I was here-- the boyfriend I had here-- I mean-- it-- I really had forgotten about the man who's become my husband, I'd really kind of forgotten about him. I got his letter and I thought hmm-- who's that? Huh-- that name I don't quite remember. So, I, so I wrote to him I said "I'm sorry I don't know who you are" and he got very mad. So, then he sent me a picture and then I said, "huh it looks so unfamiliar, oh shit! Yeah I know who that is, yeah" So we kept in touch, we kept in touch, and, he told me he wanted to date me he wanted to keep in touch and it happened that my grandmother became sick again; we were very worried and my father was supposed to fly there but he couldn't make it. He had to work, he wasn't allowed to take time off, so he asked me if I wouldn't mind going. So, I said sure and I went and I stayed for two months with my grandmother and took care of her after her stroke she was in the hospital and I had to pay for her bills and do all the stuff involved with that I took care of her and then the man who became my husband, he uh, he came to visit again, kept in touch, and he asked me to get engaged with him after three months of dating. I turned him down, second time he asked me I turned him down. And my grandmother said to me "I like him!" and I said "I know, I know" and my grandmother said "I want to see you married, I'm still alive I want to see you married before I die" I said "I know grandma I know I know but don't rush me I need to have the right guy, I need to find the right man who I love!" and she said "he seems like a nice man" and my grandmother said to me "remember, don't think about money" I said "no I'm not looking for money I'm looking for love. My grandmother said to me, when she, you met him, I met my husband and we were married in two weeks. I said Grandma that was a long time ago; it's different now she said you have to follow your stomach do you have butterflies there? You have to follow your heart do you feel love there, then do it! And I thought hmmm, but, I decided go ahead and get engaged. And so I got engaged with my husband and married him very quickly. And then, he stayed in Ukraine, it's funny, umm it was like, we were married, we didn't, I didn't have the dress or anything it was just the two of us went signed the papers and that was it. And, there were fifty people who were there, the same age as me, had a party, we didn't have any family at all. And my parents had no idea that I was married, my father knew I was engaged but he didn't know we'd actually gone in and signed the papers and made it legal, so, when I flew back, he said well why didn't you-- why did you go back to the U.S., he wanted me to stay in Ukraine, I said hang on a second I have to go there I have to talk to my father, so I flew back and I told my boyfriend uhh-- we're broken up that's it he was mad and I said well ohh uhh ohh well I love this other man. So, that's how I told my father that I'm married my father said "you're supposed to wait, you're supposed to have the dress, you're supposed to have everything." I said, "ehhh, doesn't matter" he said OK fine. Next year, we'll have the family, we'll have the wedding; we'll have a huge affair when you get married. And I told my husband well, you're going to have to come here to the U.S. and my husband said no he wanted me to stay in Ukraine! And I said but, but I'm going to college I'm going to be stuck he said I don't care you can start here in Ukraine and so I was very angry at that-- and then I told him Well fine, we should get divorced he said "what! We just got married!" You want to get divorced? I said because, I love you but I don't want to stay here. So, I said if you love me, then you'll come with me. He said ok, so he came with me here, and he was grumpy for a while, but as it went on like after a couple of years, I said I will always be there with you we were always helping each other I would help him translate things he would go to school and he'd say he wanted a job I said you have to be patient you have to focus on school first he didn't want to do that and finally he's the smart guy but after two or three months he would pick up English just like that and he got a job and he just took off and-- like my father (snaps fingers) it was like my father just right away didn't care about the schooling. Who cares, just get the job and he picked up English very well and now he does very well he doesn't write so well in English but he speaks very well; he knows how to speak. So, it's very amazing. So we've been married sixteen years now hmm. Yeah. And-- also I, I was thinking about my grandmother had said see? You're still married, and she was there when we were married and then it was a few years after that my grandmother said I want to see grandchildren! I said we're trying! We're trying! And then I was pregnant and my grandmother died, so, I always promised my grandmother-- grandchildren but I was very very close with my grandmother and grandfather there, very close to them, but, my mom's side of the family my grandmother was, I would see her, she was very sickly I never met my grandfather on my mother's side. My father's side I saw more often my grandmother and my grandfather and all the family there. Anything else? JG: I think we're uhh I think we're uhh-- good? AE: Uhh yeah, I think we're good. Thank you so much. JG: Thank you so much. IK: Mhmm you're welcome. JG: It was very nice to hear your story. AE: It was very nice thank you. IK: Well thank you! (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Irina Kirichuk Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kirichuk, Irina ; Gurewich, Jonathan ; Esposito, Andrea Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Irina Kirichuk was born in Kurganinsk, Russia and moved to Ukraine when she was three. She is of Russian, Ukrainian, and Armenian ancestry. She is hearing impaired. She came to the United States in 1993, works as a hairstylist, and lives with her family in Binghamton. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-11 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Irina Kirichuk.MP3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-21 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 59:45 Subject The topic of the resource Kirichuk, Irina. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Armenian; Russian; Ethnic identity; Ethnic--food; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9063d5632ca0f5cc2ea6282025b4d6df.m4a 010afa648dbfa2043e31c1e40669d1cc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ege Konuk and Tyler Sherven Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ivan Synevsky Biographical Text Father Ivan Synevsky was born in Western Ukraine region in 1982. He lived in Ukraine until 2001, when he moved to Canada. He lived in Canada for six years, then got married in the United States in 2007. He attended Holy Cross Greek Theological School in Boston from 2008 to 2010, then was ordained in 2010 in Rhode Island. He had a parish in New Jersey for two years and in 2012, he was transferred to the local parish. He resides in Johnson City with his wife and three children. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 60:24 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-06 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Synevsky, Ivan. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian—Canadian; Ukraine—History; Soviet Union--History; Eastern Orthodox Church; Priest; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia-- History; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=IvanSynevsky.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Priests; Soviet Union; Canada; Ukrainian Orthodox Church Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Father Ivan Synevsky, Priest Interviewed by: Ege Konuk and Tyler Sherven Transcriber: Ege Konuk and Tyler Sherven Date of interview: 6 April 2016 at 10:00 am Interview Setting: St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Tyler Sherven: Hello, today we are interviewing Father Ivan on April 6, 2016, 10am at Binghamton's St John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church. How are you doing Father? Father Ivan Synevsky: I'm doing good, thank you. TS: We're Binghamton students Tyler and this Ege, it’s a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak with you in your lovely place of worship. For your discretion, you are not obligated to answer any of these questions. If there are any topics you find uncomfortable, please inform us to move on. Ege, would you like to begin with your question Ege Konuk: Hello again, Father Ivan. Like my friend said before, it is a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak with you. First of all, Father Ivan, could you introduce yourself to our audience. Could you perhaps offer us some information, such as where were you born, when were you born, career, and size of family? IS: Sure, I was born in Ukraine, 1982. Western Ukraine Region. I lived in the Ukraine until 2001, when I moved to Canada. I lived in Canada for 6 years, then I got married in the United States, 2007. At that time, I was also considering going to seminary school. Even though there was one already in Canada that I already applied to, I decided to go to one in the United States. So I went to Holy Cross Greek Theological School in Boston from 2008 to 2010. Then I was ordained in 2010 in Rhode Island. I had a parish in New Jersey for 2 years and in 2012 I was transferred to this parish. I, as I said, I am married and have 3 kids now. I also work for the main office of our church in the United States as editor of the magazine. It is called Ukrainian Orthodox Word and I also do other publications, some of the website publishing as well. I published the main calendar of the church; I also am taking care of this parish. TS: You said you lived in Ukraine until 2001. Could you possibly detail the community you grew up in, while you were in Ukraine? IS: Sure, when I was born, at that time, it was still the Soviet Union. In 1989, the Soviet Union started to break up. In 1990, Ukraine proclaimed its independence. The schools have started to change as well. During the Soviet Union, we learned Russian language, Russian literature. After Ukraine became independent, we started to use more Ukrainian language, less Russian. I believe after 2 years, we stopped even learning Russian at all. We started to use all the Ukrainian books, since everything was in Russian. In the area I grew up, my father was a priest, he had a parish in the village, and so we grew up in the village. After my parents passed away when I was 9 years old, we moved to the city where my aunt took us. I had 5 more siblings, there was 6 of us, so we all moved to her apartment. But slowly, we went to school and kind of broke up that number, because when she took us she had her own 4 children, 6 of us. My sister soon after went to look after grandmother and my sister went to the other grandmother, then we kind of shifted in different ways, making work easier on my aunt. But we also come from a large family, where my mother's side, there were 12 kids, 3 died when they were young, so there were 9 left. They were all helping us when we were without parents, which was a great help. Even in that case, when we moved to Canada, we moved as adopted children to Canada-- our relatives took us to Canada, 4 of us, 4 boys and 2 sisters were still in Ukraine, but four boys went to Canada. EK: Well, I wonder how you and your family decided to immigrate to America. I mean that, what motivated this decision? IS: Well, I was in Canada, and my second parents had took us to Canada. He was also a priest, so he moved to the United States, as a priest. And I was visiting them during the Ukrainian festival and I met a girl during the Ukrainian Festival, and I started to air travel from Canada to Oregon State. But where my girl was at the time was Seattle, Washington, because I was traveling to both places. Then not too long, I met my future wife in October and we married in July. Then, like I said, I already applied to theological school in Canada, but since I married in the United States, we decided to stay in the United States, so we applied to Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Theological School, and we moved there. We were there for 2 and a half years, because I expedited using summers. I guess my reason to move to the United States was, simply, more opportunities here and also there were some immigration papers that were involved at that time, so we decided to move to Canada and not stay in the United States. TS: Has your perspective on America evolved since arriving? Did you happen to have a certain idea of what America was, while you were in Canada or Ukraine? IS: Well I certainly had a different imagination when I was in Ukraine, because I guess all we learned was from movies, and you cannot really learn America by movies. When I moved to Canada, Canada is much like America, it was a big difference when I moved from Ukraine to Canada. Many things were new. But when I moved from Canada to the United States, I guess the only difference that I noticed was that America is much larger, and there are many areas that are occupied more. Whereas in Canada, there are some empty spaces in between the bigger cities, where you can travel 6-7 hours and see nothing on the side. Whereas here, 1 or 2 hours there is something. Even though there is a highway, you can certainly see outlets that you can go and stop somewhere. I haven't been in South America, I don't know what it's like there, but certainly in the North part of the United States, I have some experience. EK: At this point, I want to ask you another question. Does your immediate family hold different views on this country? TS: Different views, as in let's say, when your family was in Ukraine, did they hold different views on perhaps what they saw through movies and other sorts of media and then did that shift? IS: Oh, my family in Ukraine? TS: Your family in Ukraine and Canada, perhaps. IS: I would say the family in Ukraine may still have different views because of our constant communications, I believe they have a better idea how it is in Ukraine. And my siblings in Canada, they've been in the United States too, so I don't think there is much difference. I think the only difference, is that it is a much larger community here. And also in Canada, French is the second language and here Spanish is almost the second language. I guess that is the only difference you have. But everything else looks very similar or the same in the United States and Canada because they share products along the border. TS: I mean they have such a close economic relationship and everything. It's really had to shift between there-- Well, you must have a really strong religious identity, being an Orthodox priest, of course. What happened to inspire you to take on this path and, more broadly, what inspires people to enter your religious community? IS: Well, as I have said before, I am from the priest family. And I grew up in the church, so all the feast days, all the services, we were in the church. Not only my father, but also my six uncles from my mother's side were priests. One was cantor, the whole family was really in the church, so anytime we had celebrations friends, priests that would come. From my very childhood, my dream was to become a priest. Even though that dream dissipated, later on, when I was a teenager because in Ukraine there were times, after Ukraine became independent, there were times of disturbance in the Orthodox ways, where national churches would start to rise up without canonical. There the Byzantine Catholic Church that started to invade the churches. I witnessed many invasions of the church, where people would come to the church and expel the Orthodox people and change all the locks and stuff. So that was happening in 1990-1996, during that time. TS: Could you perhaps elaborate on the transition of the Orthodox Church between the time in the 80s, with the Soviet Union and the 90s? IS: I believe the church decided to separate from Russia completely. When the country, itself, proclaimed its independence, the church wanted to have independence as well, because they were under the patriarch of Russia. They wanted to have their own patriarch so they could have no relationship with Russia because of that long bond that they had and also some stories that the Russian Patriarch was under control of the KGB, and so they wanted to separate for many reasons. There were many attempts, some were at the very beginning, and they were very healthy if everybody said we want the Ukrainian church, let's separate. Even though there were, at times, those of that kind, but yet there was some hesitation from some bishops. Many of them said no at the very end before the meeting, so that didn't happen all together. They had to break up into smaller groups. So that didn't really work well because we orthodox started to be divided. Some wanted to be canonically correct so they would stay with Moscow. Some wanted to be separated from Moscow completely, so they created their own group and started to serve their own services. Outside, look, you cannot see any difference. All Churches are the same. All icons and everything are the same, as I've said before, you cannot tell the difference what group you're on. There's not really a separation of something or making new religions. There is just a separation of governance, governments that wanted to create their own, so they would be completely separate from Russia. So the decision was to separate from the Soviet Union completely and be its own, self-governed in all regions. TS: So there was major push to establish and strengthen the Ukrainian identity after the fall of the Soviet Union? IS: It's really hard, because look, during the Soviet Union, there were times many people would be forcefully moved from one area to another area. Just simply, even my grandparents, they were moved from their village. Simply they load them, bring whatever they can take, and load them on a truck, move them miles, miles away to the city so they could they work and build the cities. They wanted to move the businesses and stuff because everything was owned by the government, so they wanted everyone to work for the government. All the mineries, all the shoe factories, and every business they owned, they wanted people in. So it was a forceful thing to move people around and also they were not just moving in the small country or region, they were moving country to country. They would move people from Russia to Ukraine and Ukraine to Russia, and every nation they had under their control, they would move them in between inside the Soviet Union, and they wanted to make against the mix of nations inside so they could not separate as easily because you would have your own people, people of different religions, nations, so they would always be opposite to the greater community. So that was one part of their politics at the time. I think it worked and in some ways it still works today because many people still are of different nations, but yet what people look now, is, actually, am I happy to be here? Happens to be that Ukraine is a happy place to live for many nations, whether it is Tatars in Crimea, they're really trying to put their voice in, they're unhappy under Russia, so forth. Even Russians themselves, that were living in Ukraine and working in Ukraine, have showed their voice on the TV and elsewhere that they are happy to be in Ukraine, that they don't want anything to do with Russia, since they are still really totalitarian minded because Ukraine started to move toward more democratic ways, more toward the west, they wanted to have things done differently because in Russia you still have that totalitarian view where you'd force someone to do something for you and they didn't want to have that. TS: Considering all the totalitarianism, especially within the Soviet Union, how did the Soviet Union, perhaps, control the Orthodox Church? I mean, from what I understand, the Soviet Union wanted to promote atheist values and I was curious, as to whether how they would, perhaps, control the church? IS: As far as I can see, they started to create different feast days, which were not Christian. Those would be the 8th of March, as they called it Universal Women’s Day, which in America, very little people know about 8th of March, and there's also other, like new year because the church new year would be 14th of January because the church didn't switch the calendar, even though, under the Soviet Union, we have changed the dates to the new calendar, but yet we are still following the old calendar. So our new year was after nativity. Whereas if you take the new calendar, it's a week before because there are thirteen days difference between the two calendars, Julian and Gregorian calendar. The feasts differentiate and so the first of January, for us, is still during lent when we're not really allowed to do any music or any fat foods and so forth. But they started to celebrate that feast a lot. There were also other feasts, they would march, celebration of victories from war and some other stuff. They would make up different names to do at a certain time, when we would do a certain feast. When we would have Pascha, our romaine feast for Easter, they would do something or make people to go and do work outside. Basically, you had to do it, it was a really forceful command, "go and do flowers by the city hall", and you would have to go, otherwise they would release you from your work and so people did differently. Some were obeying whether, but yet, at the times when they didn't work, they would come to church. Some would say no and just simply go to church and see what happens and people did other things. EK: Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask a question about your childhood. I wonder, did you frequently attend Orthodox Church events as a child? If so, could you give examples of these events? IS: Yes, we grew up in Church. Most of the time the priest lives by the church, so we would participate in all the feast days, where there was nativity, Easter, or any other. The main feast is Easter and twelve major feasts, but also every Sunday. I guess Pascha or Easter is the greatest feast for us; we would definitely do many things during that time. The Ukrainian tradition is also that during Easter we would, especially fun for young kids, because during Easter boys and girls would make circles, like chains, they would hold each other, and there was another smaller layer if they can, and walk around the church. That was something for young kids to show their strength and abilities, but it was also nice for other people to look for something. There was mostly boys doing it, but the girls would participate as well, but for the smaller kids or girls there were other activities done at that time. They would sing different songs and play different games during that time; I guess everyone was occupied by doing something. It was a great feast, they would celebrate in such a way that they would really enjoy because Easter is spring time, in spiritual terms as well, so we would really enjoy eating a meal, but also wearing all the bright colors during that time, so it was really amazing. TS: It seems that your church is a really good community builder. Could you, perhaps, go into more depth about the different ways the church strengthens community in all parts of the world? IS: Well, I guess the church itself is actually meaning the communion, and even our main service, liturgy, from the Greek, means work of the people. Even the priest cannot celebrate liturgy by himself, he would have to have more people, at least 2-3 people to celebrate the liturgy with. Even the governments of the church, in all Orthodox Church, is not governed by a bishop or a patriarch, it is governed by all the bishops. Even though we have countries with their own patriarch, but yet, they among themselves are equal. Even though we have a canonical patriarch in Istanbul, but yet he is considered to be first among equal. Anytime we would have certain main things done, they would be done in a Sabor or a council. In the Early church, we had eight canonical councils that had impact on the whole church. They would come, representatives from all churches, whether it was an issue of the holy trinity, issue of the icons, how we venerate them and so forth, and there were other major issues in the church, as they grew up spiritually, they had some difficulties because people started to interpret things differently, they started to create their own groups and so forth of their own teaching. But yet the church, as a whole, put their stand, here's what it is, here's how it is supposed to be after learning and researching the issue. Even today we have that sense, in the United States we have, every 3 years, the Sabor council, where we get all the clergy from the United States and laity and they would all participate in different groups, different questions that we need to decide for the country, for the United States. There is one Greek Orthodox council, which is planned in Crete this year, where all the Orthodox come for the council, so they are going to decide on the issues of whether it is a liturgical practice, whether it is issues of marriage or the calendar, or other things, or governments, so we have some problems that we need to decide. But no one can decide on those questions unless we all come together. TS: So you were saying how the Istanbul patriarch is equal in the eyes of the other bishops, so is equal voices in the council a very significant value of the church? IS: It was from the very beginnings, so even though the church does not claim that, or we do not say that we are democratic or so, we have our own style of governance. But it many ways, it looks like it is democratic because we unite all together to decide certain questions and then it applies to everyone else. Although there are some local, we allow local traditions, but they have to be on a different level because there is a bigger tradition that involves everybody. There are smaller and local traditions that involve just the local communities. EK: You have been, as a priest for a long time. I wonder what training or education you completed to become a priest. IS: Well, I went to Boston school, Greek Holy Cross Theological School, and it was Master of Divinity. Before that I graduated from computer Science College in Ukraine. So basically you would have to have undergrad before you went into the Master of Divinity. Those that did not have, the school has a program in its place. I believe it is called Hellenic college, where you could take any other undergrad area in their school, or elsewhere, and just come to and participate in the higher level there. TS: Are there any experiences outside of your structured education that you consider to be incredibly valuable to your experience as a priest today? IS: Well, definitely, I would say all the experience I have received, whether it's in Ukraine or Canada, or in United States, outside of the church has place in the church as well. I graduated from Computer Science College, so now I able to do things for the church that we didn't have to call other people or pay people for that job. So basically whether it's a website, a publication, computers, I am able to do that so we have many clergy of different backgrounds. Some are doctors, some are known in woodwork, some are known in different ways so we have different and really rich background of clergy that can do different things, which, I guess, helping the community like the previous priest would have different, father Loric, during his time the church rectory was built and the memorial center. He was very well known with his music, he was known for his musical talents, so he would read and write music, he would play music, so he had that talent. The church now uses his music and now a days we still hear all this, even up to today, so it didn't lost value or anything like that. Anything you can do, you can apply in a good way to the church. TS: Studying computer science, you obviously must have a lot of skills in that area. How do you apply that to modern Orthodox Church today, and also, you mentioned that you are part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Word Magazine, so I would imagine that you would have a lot to offer with your computer skills. IS: Well, you may probably know that you have to constantly learn in the computer science because I graduated with computer science in 2001, right just before I went to Canada. Since then many things have changed. What I learned then is different today so I had to completely update myself and learn new languages, learn new programs, and stuff. But at least it gave me a base that I can then jump from there, elsewhere without much hesitation or struggle. I wasn't a publisher, where I didn't know what publishing program before, but there was opportunity to do something with publishing and I, within a short period of time, was able to accommodate the program and learn how to do things. I guess it's easier for a person that has some underground in computers to learn things than to say someone that did not have experience with computers to learn this program. I guess in that way it makes my life easier, it makes the main office life easier. And I started to learn with many things I started to do at the office, were not the things you learn in school. In school you learn basics, but when you go to the workplace, you have to really adjust yourself and learn more things and specifics of certain things you can adjust. And it's also good for publishing books because I'm also on the liturgical commission that I help publish the books and lay out. Since we do it in two languages, English and Ukrainian, so I have to make sure that we have two sides on each page, but there are programs that can do that. I guess we use our talents to simplify and make life easier for many people not just ourselves and use our talents for the glory of god and basically the goal. TS: Further expand your message-- and then you also mentioned, in regards to schooling, you went to Greek Orthodox School for your studies. I was curious, as to if you can elaborate on the differences between Ukrainian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox? IS: The differences? TS: Possibly the similarities? IS: I guess the theology is the same. We are all Orthodox and now we are all in communion. The differences between Greek Church, and Ukrainian, or Russian is that we are in different calendars. They, in 1922, the Greek Church switched to new calendar, whereas the Slavic church did not. So, we still keep the old calendar and so the calendar is the difference. What unites us is the Easter, the Pascha because that is the only day that we have or period of days that we have the same. We would celebrate the Great Lent before Pascha, before Easter, so we have this period the same. There is some specific dates that are different and the calendars are different, yet the Pascha, itself, is the uniting feast day that we all celebrate, as Orthodox. EK: I also wonder your opinions about American traditions or customs. Are there any American traditions or hobbies, activities, large-scale cultural events you find interesting, fun, or rather odd? IS: Well, certainly, the church integrates itself in the community and of course people come from the community and bring, I guess, the American tradition with them. You cannot really do anything with that and some of them are not harmful. Whether it is a tradition has something to do with the Christmas, even though the story maybe, I guess, completely different from the Christian stories, yet there are some Christmas songs or other things they do similar or for Easter they use bunnies, which that has nothing to do with Pascha itself, yet, I mean it's spring, it's first animals running around. You just accept them, they're not really harmful to the faith itself. We try to explain that to people, they know but it's something nice and it's available in stores. I guess the egg hunt is something unique that I did not know in Ukraine, but here in the United States and Canada, it's really popular among the kids and they love it. Even at home they play egg hunt all year. I guess people like to search things out, the feeling of searching something and finding. You give them hints or you don't give them hints and they like that feeling "I can find it, just give me one hint and I'll try to find it. Something Red. What's red?" Everything red is starting to flicker on! I guess there is some fun in the church as well, it's not that bad. And I guess what's unique in Canada and the United States from Ukraine and Russia is that the churches are built in a smaller communities. And so they started to build those memorials or cultural centers beside the church, so they would have those cultural centers, social clubs, which is not present in Ukraine or Russia. In Russia and Ukraine you would only have the church and you could have some other buildings, but they are not necessarily be a cultural center because the whole church, the whole country, or majority of the country or citizens is Orthodox or Christians. You would have one whole for everybody else and Ukrainian language is the number one language, everyone would use different clubs established for that purpose. There was no need to establish that beside the church, whereas here everybody tries to preserve its own language, community, and so they want to have a place where they come and do things together, so they had to build those cultural centers, so I think that's a unique and also after services, we'd go and have a coffee, have meals and there were often times we'd do other things. Even this parish, in particular, has a strong tradition of raising money from the catering services at the hall to build this church, build this rectory and to sustain itself. Whereas in Ukraine, you don't have that. People just donate their time, talent, and money for the upkeep of the church itself, but there was nothing else for upkeep. And then we have the parish we have in Ukraine, certain Orphanages, certain nurseries and stuff, but here it has a little different shift because the church and the community kind of gather together in one thing. TS: So that's sort of something that appears to be unique here in America. For instance, church is the epicenter of all the activities and everything. Also with universities, they include all the activities and in most parts of Europe that is generally not the case, whereas in university it is meant for strictly educational purposes. Do you have any thoughts on these differences? IS: Yeah in America and because of that vast variety of traditions and languages and nations that you have possibilities to have different areas in the universities in the nation. Some, especially some larger universities would have areas of Russia and different European languages so they would study just that area. Whereas in Ukraine, you may have such schools in the capital city where they would learn something like that, but in the majority of the county you don't have that. And also in Ukraine because it's a mostly Christian country, the government itself has certain things already done for its people, so it's not the church doing the thing, it's the government has done it. And I'm sure it's similar in turkey when they do things or elsewhere when the government does something for the people, even though it does not necessarily have to recognize it, that's the only thing we recognize, yet they will build something for the community that they can use it for the benefit of the community. TS: And you also mentioned a lot of large-scale cultural events here in America. Are there large-scale events in the Ukraine? IS: Yes, but I guess the difference between here and there would be the organizers here would be the parish or the national office. Whereas in Ukraine, you would have regular schools doing things. I guess the shift is who is organizing and who is teaching. In Ukraine, you have religious class in each school, where you would learn something about its Orthodox religion in school. There is one class, where the priest or some lady would come and teach the class to the smaller kids. Whereas here, the church has to or the parish has to teach them in Sunday school. Even though we did have Sunday schools in Ukraine, I believe it was during the Soviet Union, my father would gather all the kids in church and would do a class and explain what icons mean, give them a better outlook on what we have so they can better understand. But now it's done more in schools in Ukraine, whereas here, you don't learn that in school. You have to go to church school to learn that. Also the difference is if you participate in different sports, which nowadays is during the Sunday, kids do not participate in the church so they do not get to Sunday school classes because during the week it's impossible to get them because they have different things going on anyway. But on Sundays has been taken away here so we struggle with the way it's been managed in the community. I know many communities have gathered together and asked those big associations "do not do anything until 2 o'clock on Sunday" so they can have those kids in those services and Sunday school but it's still a big problem. EK: Maybe we can prepare more general questions for the rest of our time. I wonder how you describe America to people of your home country. IS: Well, it's a free country where you can express yourself without much limitations, as in Ukraine they have so much oppression. Whoever is in charge of Ukraine land would do certain things we would not allow in Ukraine land, but you would have to learn Russian or in Poland, you would have to learn polish language and so forth. Whereas here, you're free to use your own language without being scared and so forth. I guess the feeling of being free to do things without followed by people that you're doing something wrong. I mean it's a simple thing that you can express yourself that doesn't have to be punished for. TS: With the increasing Russian totalitarianism with Vladimir Putin, what do you think of his rationale to invade the Crimea and other sort of invasions in the Ukraine? IS: Well there was a, they call "Russian World" or certain organization to compile the same or similar Soviet Union that they had before but they would have different ideas of how to do it. Like they would use Orthodox Church, use Christianity itself as a base. Even though they would not necessarily be Christian, they would not necessarily hold Orthodox values, but they would use it for their own benefit. Now it's being recovered in many cases, where there are still people, even in the Ukraine itself, where they would still wanted to say Byelorussian and Ukraine are Slavic nations that need to be held together and be one nation so that they claimed that everyone tries to separate us so let's be together so we can be a strong nation and so forth. So they manipulate in many ways not to have many countries, but have something strong as the Soviet Union because Russia itself is composed of many different countries and they're not Orthodox, they're of many religions as well. So the Orthodox in Russia, if I'm not wrong, I believe Ukrainian popularity of Orthodox is more popular than Russia itself of Orthodox. This is why Russia has so much pressure on Ukraine because it has so many involved in there. They don't simply want to release it because it is a great manipulation for the government if they use it to manipulate the people. If you have control over certain things, it is really easy to manipulate and press the higher authorities to make lower authorities do something else. TS: And Ukraine is also considered the historical birthplace of that Slavic culture too and Russia is trying to-- IS: Because Russia, in Ukrainian eyes, is the daughter country, but many would say that mother Russia and daughter Kiev, they try to flip things over, but they try to rewrite history and make it a different way. I guess for especially Ukrainians, it's really offensive and they don't like to hear that. [Laughing] TS: Nature of totalitarianism, right? [Laughing] EK: I wondered what possessions you took with you. What important things, if any, did you leave behind? Is there anything you regret leaving behind? IS: Certainly the greater community, as everybody, Ukrainian and Orthodox is sad that I left. I guess you didn't have to worry about your language, you didn't have to worry about your religion. You just go and have fun with whoever you meet, whereas here in America, you have to be careful, not careful but you will not make friends if they don't have the same values as you are or I guess the same traditions. It will be hard to live together if you are not of the same background or at least, if you try to preserve the tradition and language, it will be hard to live with someone who doesn't care about it. They would have to be respective of the traditions and faith that you're, so the two accommodate. TS: So, when you arrived in North America, were there certain core aspects of your life that had changed? Such as your diet, your activities, and your social life? IS: Well there is certainly, I can feel on my body the less I move, it gathers more [laughter]. I have to be careful, in Ukraine that was not the case. We did not have our own vehicles, so we would always travel by bus or other transportation. But most of the time you would walk distances, whether it's church, school. There are no school buses, so most of the time you would walk to school. You would be fit in that way, whereas in America, you have to use vehicle to go to the store, you have use vehicle to go to school, to go elsewhere, and moving less because of that makes you, you have to spend more time in gym and other physical activities to compensate that. So I would see that as a big difference because you don't notice at first, but then over time, you see oh "I have to watch my diet now". I guess the food here is different is as well because many things are really fabricated and done in different ways and uses different ingredients. Whereas in Ukraine, for most of the part, it's done locally from good ingredients. Even though nowadays they use new technology, they use the same things that they use in Europe and America, but yet they will still keep the tradition to use just simply bare products without any chemical interactions or GMO or stuff, so they would really, in that sense. And also in Ukraine, many people own a land. They don't have to own the whole farm like we have here in America where person owns a big area of land where they cultivate and make money from. In Ukraine, everybody has a small, they would have a big area, but at least it is small compared to United States, area where they would have their own potatoes, have their own vegetables, and fruits. You would build yourself, using all those natural sources. Even water, many people in Ukraine still use wells, especially in the villages you would have wells, you have to have. If not, your neighbor has it, so you share it and so forth. Whereas in America, it is not allowed because of bacteria and stuff. TS: What do you think about how America is sort of very fixated on their diet and other things to combat these sorts of diseases that come with increased obesity? Do you think America could benefit from the Ukrainian transportation services and more locally based communities, such as small farming that you mentioned, and other sorts of things that seem to occur in urban planning over in that area? IS: Well, I think it depends where how you look or from what angle you look. Of course, the more you sustain yourself and have your own produce, it is beneficial for the person has those sources, but of course it is damaging for the businesses that have been doing the great business for many years. But I think it is beneficial for a person, and community in general, where a person is active and doing things to support itself without looking into something crazy. Sometimes people are really bored because they don't know what to do, but you always have something to do, you have to cultivate your land and stuff, and the result of it is something to do so there is no time that you can just say there's nothing for me to do here. In that way you don't have as many crazy ideas on what to do with your life and the obesity rates will be lower. But also, the Orthodox faith itself has a great practice of fasting. We have 4 major fasts during the year. One great fast is before Easter, so it's forty-nine days before Easter, forty days major, and then there is a week before Easter. So in that time, we would not have meat or milk products and in some communities even oil isn't allowed on certain days. So if you don't eat those products during this time, your body cleanses, you really see the difference and you can literally get from 5 pounds and more. If you are really into the fasting, you can have 20 pounds just like that during the great lent. We also have other smaller Lents that last for weeks, two weeks and one is variation depending on the Pascha. So, if you use those days, you certainly lose your weight, whether you want or not because you're fasting. But it was also during the year, Wednesdays and Fridays also are fasting days, even though they're not as strict, but yet, in some communities, they are really strict during the Great lent. So you would fast during those days, you have two days per week of fasting and if you're preparing for the communion, there is also a certain fasting period beforehand that you have to prepare yourself. We have certain, life itself in the Orthodox faith makes you, if you're really participating, you're not going to be obese because if you really follow it, it will not happen. At least you will not be as obese, maybe a little extra weight but not as bad. The faith itself teaches Christians how to control yourself, how to set limits on food, how to set limits on other things, and how to control yourself not to get in trouble using those bad habits, smoking, drinking, drugs, and so forth. So I believe, in that area, the church really benefits the community because it will help control all those negative things in the community if you really try to help people because it's really helping. It's not something damaging. TS: And also it seems to show how people value their food and where it comes from and everything during those times of fasting. There's also those health promotional events. IS: Yeah, and also the food itself is for all the Orthodox. It's something we considered that god provided even though we can purchase that food, someone can donate the food and so forth, we consider it as something that god helped us sustain ourselves. So we pray before each meal, we blast the food. In Pascha, we blast the meat and dairy products for us to eat. It's not that it's evil for us to eat during lent and period, but it's a blessing done so everyone can eat but also to have limits for us to work on all those but to also be wise enough not to overcome those limits. EK: We are almost out of time for the interview. I would like to ask one more question before we finish the interview. I wonder that do you ever feel homesick. IS: Well, not really because I have so many things to do and I constantly have things to do so I don't really have time to think about it. But I do sometimes, I guess during the winter, it's snowy all the time and you cannot really even go outside that makes me sometimes wonder to go south somewhere and enjoy some sun a little bit, warm up. Since we have so much frost here, my hands sometimes get numb and stuff. But other than that-- TS: Just want to go down south where it's warm [laughing]-- Well it's been a very productive interview. Thank you so much for volunteering your time and providing us this opportunity. It's been fascinating to learn about your experiences, culture, and the great Orthodox Church. IS: Sure, anytime. EK: Thank you for your contributions to the interview and thank you for your sincere answers to our questions. IS: You're welcome. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ivan Synevsky Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Synevsky, Ivan ; Konuk, Ege ; Sherven, Tyler Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Father Ivan Synevsky was born in Western Ukraine region in 1982. He lived in Ukraine until 2001, when he moved to Canada. He lived in Canada for six years, then got married in the United States in 2007. He attended Holy Cross Greek Theological School in Boston from 2008 to 2010, then was ordained in 2010 in Rhode Island. He had a parish in New Jersey for two years and in 2012, he was transferred to the local parish. He resides in Johnson City with his wife and three children. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-06 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Ivan Synevsky.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-20 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 60:24 Subject The topic of the resource Synevsky, Ivan. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian—Canadian; Ukraine—History; Soviet Union--History; Eastern Orthodox Church; Priest; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia-- History; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fe20f845a4a198b9e735f270b5562e93.mp3 f061f0566fa36e01cf75ea18785de5f9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Alexandra Kiosse Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Julia Kiosse Biographical Text Julia Kiosse was the daughter of a Russian native and a native Moldovan. She immigrated to the United States in 1998 with her daughter, but without her husband as he could not get the proper documents in time. She lived in a small apartment in Brooklyn for one year before she moved back to Moldova to be with her husband. She moved with her family to the United States in 2000 and settled in Brooklyn. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 59:48 minutes Date of Interview 2016-03-26 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Kiosse, Julia. --Interviews; Moldovans<span xml:lang="en" property="madsrdf:authoritativeLabel skos:prefLabel"></span>--United States; Russians<span xml:lang="en" property="madsrdf:authoritativeLabel skos:prefLabel"></span>--United States; Diaspora, Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Moldova -- History; Glasnost--Soviet Union; Migrations; Communism; City and town life--New York (State)--New York OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=JuliaKiosse.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Immigrants; Soviet Union; Russians; Moldova; Volleyball players Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Julia Kiosse Interviewed by: Alexandra Kiosse Transcriber: Alexandra Kiosse Date of interview: 26 March 2016 at 11:00 am Interview Setting: Julia's kitchen in Brooklyn, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Alexandra Kiosse: Can you please tell me your full name, what year you were born, where you lived as a child, and when you moved to America? Julia Kiosse: Alright my name is Julia Kiosse, I was born in December 12, 1975. I was born in Liv in Moldova, one of the ex-Soviet Union republics until twenty-two/twenty-three years old. AK: So, what year did you move to America? JK: It was in 2000, so I was actually twenty-five. Twenty-five years old. AK: And, what is your profession? JK: Here, I become actually a freight forwarder, and I'm working in the logistics industry. AK: I will start from the past and move to the present. So, we learned that the 90's were hard economically for the former Soviet Union. Were you, and how were you, affected by this? JK: Yes, of course. I remember these years. I was about to graduate school. It was time when the Soviet Union were splitting apart, all republics, and it was very difficult economically wise situation. It was time when the government didn't pay any salaries to their employees, to the people. My father worked for a sports school, he was the coach, and he was not receiving his salary for three, four, five months. So, it was a big deal. It simply affected our eating habits; simply. So I'm not talking about something, you know, specific but simply food wise it was difficult. AK: So, what was the common food, what did everyone eat? JK: You know, we are from Moldova so it's a lot of vegetables, but it's also seasonal vegetables because [if] it's still winter in affect so basically, you know, potatoes, very common beets, cabbage, onions. Very common vegetables. And of course cereal, pasta, you know, this is most common. Milk, bread, something like this. AK: Was there a noticeable change in the society when the Soviet Union fell? So, from '90 or '91 to 93' for example? JK: Yes of course. You can feel it, you know, it was difficult time for everybody. Everybody was scared. At the same time we got some feeling of freedom, but we didn't know what to do with this freedom because it was like we were always living in certain frames. So all of a sudden we hear about freedom and democracy, we didn't know what to do with this. You know, it was very broad-some kind of term that we heard, but we didn't know how to eat this democracy. So people were kind of scared, puzzled, hungry, and angry also. Because some people were very conservative when we lived building all our lives communism and all of a sudden, you know, this idea falls apart. It was also a lot of disappointment because all of a sudden we realized, so, what's next? It's kind of like a target that all of your life, all of a sudden disappeared. So it was very difficult time. AK: So you said it was confusing. What did you hear on the news? What did the news tell you? JK: You see, I was still very young girl. For me it was, you know, news I didn't watch much news. But they were saying a lot about democracy, glasnost, you know it was very common term Gorbachev implemented. Which means that, glasnost¸ you can say whatever you want to say. Which is big deal because, you know, before we lived and we know that we have to filter whatever we're saying. You can say something inside of your family, in the kitchen, but god forbid to say it somewhere out loud. So glasnost, and these were the major terms that were on the T.V. Democracy, what to do, who killed what, what's going on, and it was more friendly relationships with other countries. All of a sudden, we start hearing some stuff that we never heard before on the T.V. That, all of a sudden America become more friendly, or other countries exist and what people do there, and how they're living, and showing some T.V programs about life overseas. It was kind of you know very interesting because we never saw this before. It was kind of eye-opening situation. AK: When you were in school what did you learn about America, or what were your impressions about America? JK: It was something at the same time strange, forbidden, and also magically interesting, because we didn't know much about America. We just knew, as a kid, as a child, I knew Levi jeans, I knew some chewing gums, Coca Cola. This was very trendy. And it was, you know, it was not in the stores. You couldn't buy this stuff in the stores, you could only buy it on the black market, it was very expensive. So regular people would not even have, so it was something not reachable, you know, like desirable. So this was. As a child, I remember this America. But otherwise we knew that, you know, it's a lot of bad stuff in America. Like discrimination of black people, they always showing us very scary picture of American life. You know, so we didn't know much. We knew that people living much better there but we didn't know exactly what's going on there. And one of my favorite characters from the United States was Samantha-Samantha, what was her last name I cannot recall- but she came with the Gorbachev time. She was one of the girls that we had exchange program as an open-mind program. So we sent some girl to United States, and Samantha came to us as a peace visitor from the United States. Very cute, very nice-looking girl, so we kind of realized that oh Americans are actually nice-looking people. AK: Why do you think that they had this exchange program? JK: It was after a certain period of time, so when Gorbachev actually announced this glasnost and democracy, and you know it was more open to all of us to American people and Russian people. So it was one of the first steps on the normal-people level to exchange views. And you know simply to basically say "hello" to each other. AK: About America, what did people around you say? Like what did your family say about America, was it nice or did they criticize America? JK: You see, our family is a Jewish family. So, we have some Jewish roots and we knew, I knew even as a child, for a long time that we will immigrate from this country, from Russia. Because it was, we all understood that this was not normal life that we're living. It is not normal that people with education (like chemical engineer, my mom, and my father who was a coach with a Bachelor's degree) barely making to exist, barely making money to exist. So, it was always some kind of drugging, it was always a terrible situation that we lived. I cannot say "terrible" but we know that people can live better, and we don't understand what we can do in order to do it. You know, you cannot work more, you cannot work harder. It would not help you, you know, it's just the situation that you were living. No matter how hard you were working you still get the same salary. So we were planning to immigrate long time ago, and I knew it as a child, so we were always looking toward America or Germany, and the third option was Israel. So we were always looking to United States as our potential new home. So we didn't know much. We heard a lot of minuses from life in the United States. We understood, of course, all benefits of living in United States, but we didn't know exactly what's going on because we'd never been there. AK: What about the United States appealed to you? What appealed to you while you were living in Moldova, why did you choose the United States? JK: I saw already that it will be my potential, my life. I knew that my mind was already programmed that I'm going there to live another life, better quality life. So, I somehow on intuition level I knew that it is better there. AK: Tell me about your childhood, what did you do in your free time as a child? JK: We were playing outside a lot. Most of time we were spending outside playing ball, climbing on trees, playing hide-and-seek, bicycling. You know, outside games mostly. AK: So, you disappeared in the morning and came back at night? JK: On Saturday and Sunday yes, and then mom periodically was screaming from the window "go home it's time to eat, go home you need to clean up." And then I would clean up or eat and then go again outside, so it was always a lot of kids outside because there was not a lot of toys at home and then because we were very active so it was always pleasure for us to be outside. AK: When you were younger, elementary school or middle school, did you have a childhood hero or someone you looked up to? JK: I don't recall. I think it was probably elementary school and probably part of middle school, it was very communist heroes. First of all it was Lenin, because we tried to get this little znachok, how do you call it, pin on your school form with Lenin's portrait, a little star and inside it was Lenin's picture. We were told that best kids would get this pin. Not everybody-you have to behave, you have to be a good child. It means that you have to, besides school you have to treat other people well, you have to give your seat in the bus to the elderly and pregnant women. You cannot throw garbage on the street, you cannot do this and this and this. We were trying to behave basically. Then, because children are more, you know you can give them idea and they easily take this idea. So, they kind of following this. And then of course we had the pioneer, we tried to be good pioneers. It was a big deal. So you behave, and everything. You know if you do something wrong, people would say "no, you cannot do this because you will not be a pioneer! So, it was a big deal. And then we had also a lot of movies about war and about some children, patriotic children, that were killing Nazi people and we try also to be the same kind of hero. Some kind of propaganda I would say. It was not Snow White or something like this. No we didn't have something like this. AK: Would you say the feelings toward communism were positive? JK: Yeah it definitely had some positive moments. It's like a religion, it's basically putting you in some behavior frame that you have to behave, especially when the propaganda is working so well, for so many years, that you believe in this. And yes, it disciplines you, especially children, I remember this very well. I would say the scariest part for me was that I would not be a pioneer if I would not behave well. So, it was very motivated reasons to be a good person. Of course there was some positive moments. I can say it for sure. AK: Do you think communism ultimately failed because of what it was as a system or because of something else, maybe because of some leaders or how they led the system? JK: No, I think it's the idea. The older I become I understand that this is all baloney, all these ideas. You see in reality when you grow up that yeah you become a pioneer, but a bunch of other bad people become pioneers too. And actually these bad people can play against you just with some kind of secret report that you didn't behave as a proper communist, or something like that. Or basically when you grow up and you go out of college, you get the same salary that person who was fooling around. So it was this, everybody was equal. And then at certain point you got disappointed because it's like, "what is this? I work hard, I study, I tried, I'm working hard, I'm trying to be a good employee but by the end nobody will notice this." They would only give you some piece of paper saying that you're the best employee, but you cannot deposit this into your bank account. By the end it's just like when you have hundreds of these notes, they already cover your bathroom, but you don't have paper towels. You have no money. It works great for small children, but when you grow up and you need real life you understand that something is not clicking together, something is missing here. AK: What was your education after high school? JK: I went to college and I started my education in college. I graduated in three years in college and then we decided to immigrate. I got married and we were going to the United States. So I quit basically college. AK: So did you continue on your education here? JK: Yes, I went right away here. I got into college and I got my Associate's degree then I moved to Bachelor's degree, and I was working on a Master's degree but I never graduated. I have to come back and finish. AK: What was your first job after graduating from college? JK: Here in the United States, my first job that I used my education was job in the airport. I was working in the freight department of Virgin Atlantic, handling import and export of Virgin Atlantic in JFK. AK: Do you think that your education in Moldova or your education throughout your whole life, from elementary school to high school to college, do you think that affected how you studied or how you learned in America? JK: Definitely, definitely. We had very good, I think, level of education in [Moldova]. It was a lot of people in school, teachers and counselors that were full of ideas to educate the pioneers. They treat their job pretty well and level of education system was not bad at all. I like it and I see that when I came, I feel that my background was much more ahead of people that I worked with, people in JFK airport who only had high school diploma or a little more. I saw that there were many things they did that they had no idea of. Their education level was behind mine. AK: What differences do you see, whether they are culturally, educationally, behaviorally, between kids in Moldova, when you were a child, and kids now in America? JK: It is a difference. I think that in Moldova, education was much better. Much better. It's much more wider, it's much more serious, deep. Even though I was surprised that kids here start reading much much earlier than in Moldova. Both of my daughters started reading here at age six. At six in Moldova, you were still running with a ball outside, have no idea about books or reading. So, we started at seven or eight, my first grade I was eight because I was a December child. AK: The same question, but what do you think about kids socially? How do you think kids are different in the former Soviet Union than they are now here in America? JK: It has nothing to do with the Soviet Union or the United States now. It's just the technology level, I think now no matter what, even in Moldova now, it's different because technology is killing, unfortunately, social skills. Kids are growing from toddler age with iPads, phones. They like to play games and it has also a lot of pluses but it's also a big minus towards social skills unfortunately. So we were much more open in the old times because we had no devices. Toys were not so sophisticated, so even if you had a doll you better take it out and play with your girlfriends outside, making some dresses together because there weren't many dresses for girls, you had to do it yourself mostly with some colored paper, construction paper. It was a lot of fun, you were sharing ideas of how to do it. Some kids were more creative. It was cool. AK: Your dad was a coach, so how did sports affect your life as a child and adolescent and how was that affecting your social life as well. JK: It affected me a lot. It basically formed my character because volleyball is a team sport and as any sport it requires to have some basic character to be able to perform, to be able to fight no matter what's the reason. Basically once you're on the field you playing for the ball, fighting for the ball, winning ball. But then it becomes your life and you're fighting for your interests in this life, in a good way of course. You're not hitting anybody; you're not hitting your partners on another team. So you are just fighting to reach some goal in your life. AK: So again, what difference do you see between athletics when you were a kid in Moldova and athletics here? JK: I see a big difference. I think its connection of educational approach here and over there. It's a different mentality, people have a different approach. Here sports clubs are more hobbies. When kids are coming if child is overweight, they taking the girl to gymnastics or ballet just to fix this weight situation. In Moldova or Soviet Union, nobody would get the idea to bring an overweight girl to a ballet class, because it was just not acceptable. It's a different approach, first of all. There, kids are going to play sport and they see that they have to win, they have to perform, they have to give some results. Here it's more parents' drive that their children will be playing or doing some sports, and its more hobby, it's more for pleasure. It's not so serious as it was in Soviet Union, and I think that they still have the same approach there. So here coach would never criticize your child seriously, never treat it seriously. Over there it's a job, sports activity was a job. AK: So, what were you striving for, what was your goal when you were playing sports? JK: I wanted to be a good athlete, I wanted to achieve something. We had category of sportsmen, we had some kind of achievements in sports. You can be a candidate, we called it candidat mastera sporta and master of sport. We had category one, category two. So through your sport career you achieve, step by step, better and better category. And of course volleyball is a team job so you have to try to get into better team. First it was on the republic level, because it was Moldova Republic. Then you have to try to get on the Soviet Union team, and then perform on an international level. So, it was always some kind of goal, because it was a chance to live a little bit better life. To get out of this equality of the people. AK: What was your biggest achievement in volleyball? JK: I was playing for Republic of Moldova team, as a member of the Republic of Moldova team. AK: Who did you play? JK: I was playing, how do you call it, passuyushey, how do you call it. AK: Setter. JK: Yes, setter. As a setter. My height is not tall enough as is required for volleyball, so best position for me was to be a setter. I was running fast and setting tall girls to hit hard. AK: Who did you play, like what countries or what other teams did you play? JK: Normally it was a competition through the Soviet Union, between Soviet Union republics. So, all fifteen republics we played. Again, Moldova is normally not such a tall people like Russia or Ukraine, so we were not achieving some big results as these republics, but we were pretty good. We also performed on international level, but all this international level was only in the frame of the Soviet camp countries, like Romania, Poland, who was next to us. Yeah Romania and Poland were the biggest competitions. I don't think we participated in any other levels. It was only our neighbor countries. AK: Do you still talk to your former teammates or your former friends from Moldova? JK: Yes sometimes, sometimes. They are still living there and you know we lost connection, close connection I would say. Our normal conversation is ending up "How's everything, everything's fine. How's people, how's family." And to go somewhere deeper it doesn't have any sense because were so far away from each other. They're living their lives, they have their own troubles, problems, and achievements. Here is different approach so. I don't think it makes sense to go deeper into problems that each of us have. We just say everything is fine, okay good good. AK: Do they ever ask any interesting questions about America? JK: Not much, I think everyone knows about what's going on here so it's not a crazy country or something. But sometimes you can hear from people living there, especially now with all this brainwashing from Putin's regime. They think that we are acting this way against Putin because we have a propaganda here, and we not allowed to talk openly or whatever we're writing them, they think that we have to write it because our Facebook and Skype is controlled, and we have to do it. So they kind of whispering to us "it's fine it's fine, we know that you cannot say anything, its fine." It's kind of funny. AK: What do you think about Putin's regime? How does it affect America, and how is it affecting the Russian people? JK: It affects a lot. It's kind of sad because living here we kind of see the situation in Russia a little bit outside. I'm not normally watching even American news, I'm watching local American Brooklyn channels just to see what's going on in my city but I'm not much involved in politics, or propaganda because it just doesn't interest me. I'm not watching news, so I cannot say that I'm brainwashed by Americans that Russia is bad or something like that. I just see from outside that whatever we have been living with, not everything is right. We have to look at the problems or situation differently. And people who still continue living there, they looking at the problems differently. So mentally we are already from different camps. So I see that people are relying a lot on the T.Vs, the main channels that work in Russia, and they taking it really seriously and truly that this is reality. They don't want to even bother to go to internet and do some kind of research, and compare and analyze. They're taking it as it was during Soviet Union time, as they said. So they taking it without even analyzing and then they believe whatever they hear on the T.V, and this is kind of sad. AK: So, we interviewed a Russian student in Binghamton on Wednesday, and she mentioned that, not here friends, not her generation, but the generation above her (parents and grandparents), when they found out she was coming to America they told her “Tell Obama what we think of him." So what do you think they meant by that, what do they think of him? JK: Yeah, again they are victims of propaganda. My husband, when he travelled five years ago to Moldova, he was actually shocked. I think he still has some kind of homesickness but when he visited last time, he was very disappointed that even close relatives start asking him why did Americans torture Russian kids. Because apparently, it was a big topic on Russian T.V that few American people, few American families adopt Russian children from foster house, and something happened unfortunately to these children. And I think that it's thousands of kids been adopted, but only, let's say, five families screwed up. They didn't do their job properly, unfortunately you cannot control people. Sometimes it's really not good families that these Russian children, or any other children getting in. So, it's a tragedy, but it's tool for propaganda to switch this fact and show to Russian people that "you see how Americans torture Russian kids, on purpose." It's funny for us because this family, if they are idiots and they didn't treat their child properly, it's not because [the kid is] Russian it's just because they are sick for some reason. It's not because it's a Russian child, or Brazilian, or Japanese or something like that, they just sick people, they don't know how to treat kids. But Russian propaganda use it in their own advantage to show Russian people that "Look, look what they did." And relatives of my husband when he visits, they specifically seriously asked him "why do you do this, what's the reason? Why do you torture Russian kids?" And he's like "What kids, what are you talking about?" and they say "Yeah on the Russian TV its so many cases, you cannot now adopt Russian kids. We truly understand this and we're against Americans to adopt Russian kids." My husband was first shocked, and then he started laughing because this is ridiculous. It's grown-up people, people he knows. It's not some idiots, it's people from his family that he knows are nice, kind people. But they're asking really ridiculous questions, and we see that it's because they are victims of this propaganda, it's nothing else. It's not because they really think about it. Another question was "why did you invade Yugoslavia, why did you bomb Yugoslavia? Get out of wherever, some islands. Get out of Poland." And these are people who work hard, they have much more troubles in their lives to discuss than discuss this situation, political situation. And they didn't see my husband for at least five, seven years. And one of the questions that was important that they decided to ask was why Americans are doing something. I think its poor brainwashing. People are so preoccupied with these ideas that the T.V is sending them, that they cannot even hold it. This is one of the first questions they ask their relative after not seeing them for five, seven years. AK: When you came to America, did you have anything like that happen to you here? Did people have any funny questions or biases towards to you because you were Russian, or you spoke Russian, and had a Russian accent? JK: No, I was actually surprised that Americans are very friendly people, very open people. I think especially people from Latin America, all this mix that United States has with nationality and races, it's kind of making this cute combination and most of these people are immigrants so they kind of treat us very well. Surprisingly well for us because our language was very bad. I remember situations on the street when you tried to get somewhere and you're trying to ask on your broken English how to get somewhere. And when you hear these instructions, directions where to go and you're confused because you don't understand anything, people simply walk you towards some direction so you can find your own path. For me it was big surprise because in Soviet Union we were not tolerant at all to some accents or some bad Russian language. So it was not accepted. We would probably turn around, or laugh out loud on the level that this human being is talking. AK: When you first moved to the United States, what were your biggest worries and concerns? What was the hardest part? JK: Language of course. You feel yourself like a dog, that understands with smart eyes, understands what's going on but cannot say anything. It was one of the scariest parts; that you trying to survive, you're trying to make money, but you simply cannot talk. So it was very depressing and hardest point. But then once I started talking, even in my bad language, I understand that people are willing to listen to you. They see that you can do something, that you are not a bad person that you are cooperating, and Americans will work with you no matter how bad your language is. AK: What about economically when you first moved to the United States? JK: I think that it was a blessing for me especially, because when we came to the United States, simply the welfare that I was getting from the government, it was a much better financial situation than I was living in Moldova. Because I was a student, and then I got married, I didn't work so I depended on my husband, and my husband was making money but it was basic needs. We were able to save some money on a car and this and this, but here I start living my own life, trying to bring my own money to family. I was surprised that I was getting from the government every month Food Stamps that allowed me to eat very well and some cash amount. It was not covering my rent, but still it was a big help toward my life. I cannot say that I feel bad economically, it was a good help for me to start my American life, to go to school and everything. AK: Looking back now, what was your greatest accomplishment in America? JK: I'm still working on my accomplishments, and I think that that's why I love America. It never stops, no matter what age you are, what is your social status, or anything like this. You can always achieve something, whatever you're dreaming of. I'm talking about achieving some goals financially, and just whatever your dreams are. Let's say if you, you know, I'm still playing volleyball and I'm enjoying this, so I have to opportunity to play after my business hours. It's also small achievements because I'm doing stuff that I like to do. I'm still working on my professional level, I have a plan to graduate my Master's degree. I'm not afraid, in Russia I'd probably be puzzles to go to school when I'm forty. Here I know that no matter what is my age, I still can do it online, I still can accomplish, it is not a big deal. So I like it, I see my future full of plans, full of achievements. I think it's a lot of possibilities. You can take a lot of classes, I'm planning one day to improve my English, I'm still thinking when my children grow up and I don't have to spend money on them, for their education, maybe one day I will take some tutor that can instruct me and teach me to speak English better. Maybe some other language. So it's a lot of things that you can improve yourself, and I like it. AK: So you spoke about getting your Master's, what do you expect to get from getting a Master's degree and where do you want to be in twenty years let's say? JK: I'm getting older so I'm hoping to maybe get some job that will pay me even more, but have more benefits toward my pension. Maybe less working hours, or something flexible. It's hard to say, I'm very happy right now so I can't complain. That's why I'm probably not rushing to graduate my Master's degree. But I think that it will give me more potential to find something better, just simply. It's just an additional skill that I can put on the table, if I need it. AK: This is a hard question; how do you identify culturally? Would you say you are American, Russian, Moldovan, Transnistrian, or some combination? What would you tell people if they asked you? JK: It is hard to identify. Definitely I'm Russian-American, so I'm American with Russian background. I would not even identify myself as Moldavian, maybe Soviet Union because it was still time that it was Soviet Union in affect and it was a part of everything. Even though we were living in Moldova, it was more pro-Russian than Moldavian. It's a combination, it's definitely not American yet, it's definitely not Russian already, but it's some kind of Russian-American heritage. AK: Something in between. JK: Something in between, that's right. AK: How do you define your culture? Is it by music, by food, by language, by religion, by politics? JK: Mostly by background, Soviet Union background. Because it was major time that I lived there, so food and culture and education mostly affected me when I was a child during the Soviet Union time. There was no religion, I would say almost no religion at all, so I would say it's mostly by the place that I was living, the Soviet Union. AK: You are from Moldova, but also from Transnistria, Pridnestrovie, so how would you say that affected your life growing up and your culture? What was the difference? JK: That's very interesting also because when Transnistria become as a new republic in 1992, we truly believed that it happened for a reason and it's a good reason for all people that living there. Again, it was tool of propaganda. We were told that we had the right to create our own republic, our own country, and I believed in this 100%. I was a strong believer in this, and I didn't understand Moldavian government, why they acted so aggressively by entering with weapons and bombing people, innocent people. I was against this, and I was a truly pro-Transnistrian citizen. But when we immigrated here, and I start looking at-- first of all I started living here differently. I started learning American language, American culture. I saw tolerance to other people, I saw big part of America by going toward the rules and traditions. All of a sudden it hit me that stuff that happened in Transnistria is not right. Its only, in my opinion, it was only done because someone on the government level decided to do this. They basically brainwashed people and guide them toward this craziness. And people who live there they still suffer from this decision, most of them not realizing that it was a bad decision. But they are separatists and they now living very separate lives from entire world because nobody announced them as a country. They still kind of isolated from entire world, it's just crazy. It's not right and its one of the, unfortunately, Russian, I think in my opinion, it's one of the Russian government decisions. AK: Why do you think people wanted to separate from Moldova? Was the culture different, what was it? JK: No, it was an idea that someone gave us in this time, and it's the same kind of idea happening in Crimea and Abkhazia. In Soviet Union time what happened, students after graduating from the colleges, they were sent to different republics, normally in most poorest economically republics basically to build up economy of these republics. Russia, central of Russia, was always active. But Moldova, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, traditionally were not very educated countries because like Moldova is a very agricultural country, so people were normally farmers. All students after college were sent to these republics. My mom, for example, is very bright example of this situation. She grew up in Russia, she is a Russian citizen, and she spoke only Russian language after graduating from her chemical university. She was sent to Moldova, first to Azerbaijan but she ended up in Moldova working as a chemical engineer in one of the plants that the Soviet Union time on purpose built in this republic. Then all republics were exchanging materials. For example, Moldova nothing to do with chemistry in Moldova, but it was convenient big places and locations and they have to employ people so they were building these huge plants to create labor and everything. So my mom ended up in Moldova. Moldova of course, their language was Moldovan or Romanian because culturally wise they used to be part of Romania long time ago. But in Soviet Union time everything was so centralized and so coming from Russia, majority of people on the government level and big manufacturing level were speaking only Russian. My mom was very comfortably feeling there, and all her life after she moved to Moldova, it was the 70's until the 90's, she was speaking only Russian. She was very successful; whatever she achieved everything was fine. When the Soviet Union started falling apart, each republic of course started announcing their independence because Moldovan people all of a sudden feel their culture because of glasnost and democracy, they said "hey we're not Russian, we're Moldovan. We want to speak our language!" They are dominant there, so it is normal that Moldovans want to speak their language. They announced that all people who are working in certain people, they have to speak Moldavian language too, which is normal. In United States we have the same thing. If you want to work somewhere, you have to first of all speak English. You can also speak Spanish or something, but if you are achieving something and working you have to speak English. So now it sounds to be very normal, but when I was in Moldova in '92 for my mom and all of us it was very shocking because all of a sudden we had to start learning Moldavian. It just historically happened, it's not the fault of Moldavian people or anyone else. If you want to continue to live in this country, you have to learn Moldavian language. But all of a sudden, somebody feel this situation and the propaganda started spreading around these people saying "hey you're Russian, you have to speak Russian. Why are they pushing you to learn Moldavian? It's not good. You have to protest this. You work hard here, you have to be able to speak your language. You don't need Moldavian language." And of course these people, like my mom and family, they feel very comfortable with this idea because it eliminates the problem to learn another language when you're forty and after forty of course it's not easy. That's why my parents, as well as many other families, supported this idea to create this kind of republic. Yes we created it and we are all of a sudden we announced to Moldova that we're not part of Moldova anymore, we want our own state. It sounds funny right now, but for us with all this propaganda and all these thoughts that we were receiving from Russia, plus Russia give us citizenship immediately of Russia, and also the possibility to travel to Russia without any visa. People who retired were getting extra cash toward their pension. Of course it was very convenient for us, economically wise and idea wise because it eliminated the problem to learn another language. Now living here in the United States I realized that it was kind of a utopia, it was unpleasant and not really comfortable idea but I came to United States and I have no idea, I have never had the idea to pronounce here on Brighton Breach independence of United States. I understand that if I want to perform here, I have to learn language and tradition. It would never come to my mind to protest here on Brighton Beach and say "hey I'm Russian I'm proud to be Russian and only Russian." It's just funny, it's very childish. But I guess because those times somebody supported us on a government level from Russia, we felt support and financially wise we just went to this idea, which was not right apparently. AK: Would you ever like to go back to Moldova to visit? JK: Maybe, maybe but it's quite far away. I see that my friends, we have different mentality level. It's also a lot of places in the world that I never visit before. So it's not my destination in my dreams or something like that. I guess one day I will be there, I guess. But it's not my dream destination. IN fifteen years, I've never visited and I cannot say that it's on my travel list. AK: Do you feel a connection to your birthplace, or do you feel that you have a duty to go back? JK: I have no duty to come back, my mom is living with me here in the United States. My father is there but he can travel, we talk on Skype, he has his own family, thank god everything is fine. So, I would rather invite him to visit me, than to go there. Especially I have two kids so I cannot go myself, it's kind of complicated. Definitely no duty there, and I have no other connection to go there. With technology, when you can always reach your friends and family over Skype and talk to them, it's good enough for me at least. AK: Earlier you mentioned religion and how there was no religion in the Soviet Union, so how did you transition from this atheist place to America, which has so many religions and cultures? What does religion mean to you, and how do you identify? JK: I also grew up so I became a more mature person, but in the 1990's when the Soviet Union fall apart I already got the feeling that I should belong somewhere, I should belong to some kind of idea. Communism fell apart for me so it was not very desirable dream to build communism. But I understood that person has to have some kind of frame and some kind of rules, but some kind of interest in this life to behave in. I think religion in certain ways, not strict one, but something kind of fusion because I belong to Jewish roots and some Russian Christian, so it's hard for me to identify myself that I'm Jewish or I'm Christian. I feel that I cannot say that whatever Jewish people saying is against Christian, or that Christian is in conflict with Jewish principles in religion. So I'm trying to create some kind of fusion, especially here in Brooklyn it's a lot of Jewish organizations and Jewish centers that I kind of like. I like their idea, again I'm against to go deeply into religion because it's very hard to be strictly religious in this crazy society, because you have to do a lot of things. I don't think anybody needs this kind of strict, unless you have some kind of inside call that you have to be this way. But I think it's some kind of mixture of everything, whatever you feel comfortable with, whatever giving you some peace. Whatever you want to do, I think it's great. That's why I love the United States, nobody criticizes anybody. If you're Jewish and want to go to the Synagogue everybody would respect whatever you do. If you're going to Russian Orthodox Church, it's also good. I'm going sometimes to both. I cannot see anything wrong about this. I mean it's great, this is typical United States. This is why I love about United States. AK: Okay my last question, also kind of a hard one. Do you have any regrets, or do you think that if you could go back, you would do something differently in your life and in moving to the States and how you live here? JK: So far, I cannot see anything I did wrong or I would do differently. Again I guess it's coming with some kind of maturity or longer time to look back. I'm pretty happy with my life. I guess if I would immigrate early, it would give me even more opportunities. Probably my transitional period from Soviet Union mentality to American mentality would've been much quicker and faster. But I'm very happy, I cannot say that I have any inside conflicts or something. I think I have some harmony in my soul in my life. AK: Okay, thank you so much! JK: You're welcome. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Julia Kiosse Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kiosse, Julia ; Kiosse, Alexandra Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Julia Kiosse was the daughter of a Russian native and a native Moldovan. She immigrated to the United States in 1998 with her daughter, but without her husband as he could not get the proper documents in time. She lived in a small apartment in Brooklyn for one year before she moved back to Moldova to be with her husband. She moved with her family to the United States in 2000 and settled in Brooklyn. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-03-26 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Julia Kiosse.wav Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-05 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 59:48 Subject The topic of the resource Kiosse, Julia. --Interviews; Moldovans--United States; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Moldova -- History; Glasnost--Soviet Union; Migrations; Communism; City and town life--New York (State)--New York Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d6a19fd785b1d092b0c36c68f8793d76.jpeg 8ef99edb98dd0ae1c6597004ad5d87b9 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/906a8ed5320d036b07a41532ace33917.m4a 179319acbb012691aba9ce6a0a7a90a1 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9671362edf0dd60a52389b737ab770d9.m4a 179319acbb012691aba9ce6a0a7a90a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Constantine Markotsis and Russell Brown Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Michael Gulachok Biographical Text Michael Gulachok is a third generation Ukrainian American who has lived in the area for his entire life. Natalia, Michael’s wife, is a first-generation immigrant from Chernivtsi, Ukraine and has lived in the United States for two decades. Natalia lived in Brooklyn until marrying Michael and moving to the Southern Tier. Michaelis a retired insurance salesman and lives in the southern tier of New York with his wife. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:23 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-12 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Michael Gulachok. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=MichaelGulachok.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainian Americans; Ukrainians; Immigrants; Ukrainian diaspora Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Michael Gulachok Interviewed by: Russell Brown and Constantine Markotsis Transcriber: Russell Brown and Constantine Markotsis Date of interview: 6 April 2016 at 09:52 am Interview Setting: St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Russell Brown: Hello, I'm Russell Brown, and I am here today with Constantine Markotsis. Today is April 6th, 2016 and the time is currently 9:52 AM and we are here at St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Johnson City, New York to interview Michael Gulachok to find out more about the history of the Ukrainian American Community of the Southern Tier. The two of us aim to explore the complexities of your past as a couple with first generation and third generation immigrant backgrounds. Michael Gulachok: I'm a 3-rd generation Ukrainian, my grandparents came over in the early 1900's. They first came into Pennsylvania and then up to this area. My grandfather wanted to be a farmer, and my grandmother wanted to stay in town. So, they opened a restaurant, which I think started around 1928, and it is still over here on Harry L Drive the Oasis Restaurant, but it has been out of the family hands for quite some time. RB: Could you please tell us a little bit about where you are from? MG: I/m from this area, I was born in Binghamton at Lourdes Hospital 65 years ago, or maybe that was 56, no (chuckles), 65 years ago, and I grew up mostly in Candor and Owego and I graduated from Owego Free Academy, SUNY Binghamton and pretty much lived in the area all my life. Constantine Markotsis: If I could just interject, where in Eastern Europe are your roots from? MG: What would now be the southeastern most part of Poland, it's a small village outside of a town called Sanok, the village name is Ulychne, there is a great website Ulucz.com and it comes in English, and that'll tell you all about the village. There you can read all about the village. The history is actually quite interesting, just a little place and it seems to have great significance, and also on top of that, many of the people in this church came from that small village. CM: And so, I guess that some of the original migrants came and told their families and neighbors to come here for work? MG: Yeah come here to the EJ factories and IBM. A lot of people would come here over Scranton because that is mostly coal mining down there. For instance, I had a great Uncle who died in a coal mining accident, I think it was 1932, so I feel it was a little bit of a better life up here. RB: Can you tell us a little bit about where your wife (Nataliya) is from? MG: My wife Nataliya is from a town which is very close to the Romanian border, and it's called Chernivtsi. It's really quiet a nice city, it has a cultural component, there is a university there (Chernivtsi University). If you look at a picture of Chernivtsi (university), it looks like the architects were on psychedelics or something. I mean it is just so many different designs. If you ever get a chance look up Chernivtsi. She (Nataliya) is from there and her family lived in a small village outside of Chernivtsi. Her mother is still alive, plus she has her son, granddaughter and brother were still there. Her brother was living in the United States for 10 years or so, but he went back. And she had another brother who passed away. RB: Could you describe your family's life in Ulychne? MG: Well you see right now the Ukrainians were pushed out of Ulychne in 1946 by the Polish government. They were mostly resettled in what is now western Poland on the border of Germany and/or Ukraine. So Ulychne now and it has been since '46 or '47 is basically Polish, there are some Ukrainians still left but mostly Polish. And it is kind of isolated, there is a foot bridge as one place you can use to get to it (Ulychne). Then there is a bridge as another way and then there is a ferry. It's on the Sand River and I have been there twice. RB: How did you like it there in Ulychne? MG: Oh, I loved it! I couldn't live there. But there was a church there that is the oldest existing wooden Carpathian style church in Poland, and it's on a hillside looking over Ulychne. It dates from about 1620. It is a museum now and they don't have services there now. But if you go on the website you will see pictures of it. Also, I have to say when the Germans came through in '42 or something, a lot of the village either by the Germans or the Polish was burned. Basically, they destroyed it. We have a map, but I don't know if it is here, but there is a map from the early '30's of Ulychne it actually shows where everyone lived. There is a legend and numbers on the houses and you can actually see where my great grandparents lived. CM: You say that the Ukrainian community was kicked out in '46, but your family left ways before that when it was still Austrian? MG: Yeah, it was a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, and we had relatives there when they were kicked out. Supposedly there is a family legend where we had a relative who had a grocery store there and when the Germans came though they shot her on the spot because of her protesting. We had relatives there when the Poles relocated them. But my relatives came over around 1912. My grandfather was 16 and my grandmother was from the same village. Her last name was Mareyko, Julia Mareyko and she came over two years later. RB: Can you tell us a little bit about why your wife came over? MG: She had relatives over here, she had an uncle who was a banker over in New Haven. By banker I don't mean he had money, he just worked as a banker (chuckles). He sponsored her, and she got a green card out of the lottery system and so did her brother Wassel and they both were living in Brooklyn. That is how she came over about 18 years ago. RB: When your grandparents lived in Ulychne do you know how they felt about the quality of life there? MG: It wasn't very good. There were land barons who controlled basically everything, and they only thing they did there was wood, vegetables, meat, cattle, and things of that sort. They would have to give a lot of it away to the barons. RB: Do you know why your wife decided to move over? MG: A better life. It's rough over there. The economy for a long time has not been very good in the Ukraine. CM: Just to clarify, what year did you say your wife moved to the US? MG: I am only guessing it was 16 or 18 years ago. I met her 15 years ago this May. She had been in the country for about two or three years at that time. CM: So right around 2000 basically? MG: A little before that yeah. I think '98. CM: So, then she lived through a lot of the Soviet Era? MG: Oh yeah. For instance, I took her to see Baryshnikov at the Anderson Center, and we had great seats and we were sitting right in front. And when I was telling her "Oh we are going to go see Baryshnikov, she really didn't know who he was, and I asked myself why she did not know. He defected in the '70s in Toronto before coming to the United States and you know the Soviet Union is not going to be allotting Baryshnikov over there. So, she really didn't know her story. CM: So, you could say in America you were able to learn more about Ukrainian history perhaps more than someone who actually lived there? MG: Oh yeah. Everything was Sovietized and it's basically what the Russians wanted them to know and learn. So, they had very limited knowledge of the United States and we were always portrayed as the devil. CM: Do you think the people bought into that, or was her family consciousness of the fact that something wasn't right? MG: I wouldn't say that about her parents, but, her contemporaries and her peers probably got that after a while because you can listen to radio for a year or get a bootleg movie and then they question why the US has such nicer things over there. You know the story: A Soviet athlete would walk into a supermarket and see 30 different types of shampoo and it was just mind blowing to them. RB: Based on your own experience what do you think sets 1st generation and 3rd generation immigrants apart? MG: Well, as far as 3rd generations go I did not have to embrace my history or my past, but I did. A lot of people just let it go and become Americans, and that is what our grandparents wanted really. They never really talked about the old country that much. They wanted us to be Americans, but there are so many people I know who are 3rd generation and they have no relation to their past, although it is up to each person. CM: I guess I may be able to relate as a 3rd generation and I don't know if this relates to your experience, but My dad's father was born in Greece and he would always say "Don't play soccer, play baseball because that is what the Americans play!" And then as my generation rolled along we want to know more about where we came from. I don't know if that kind of sounds kind of similar to you. MG: Yeah although I never really let it go. I was always into it, but I don't speak Ukrainian fluently, I know words and phrases. It is like that for so many people now, people are trying to find out more about their roots with places like Ancestry.com. For instance, the church of Latter-Day Saints has a big collection of genealogical resources. For instance, if I had gone to them before going out on my own trying to find family history I would have saved a lot of money. CM: I guess going off that, you said you speak some basic Ukrainian. I know we have Greek school, in this church is there a Ukrainian school? MG: There used to be in the 50's and 60's. There hasn't been one for quite a long time. CM: Do the kids speak Ukrainian? MG: Sometimes, it depends on their parents and whether or not they speak it at home. There are a lot of people in this church who don't speak it and some that do. I wish we could recruit new generation Ukrainians here. For instance, there is a Pentecostal Ukrainian church over in Conklin in Berkshire. They actually have been getting VISA's because they say they don't have religious freedom in the Ukraine and that has been their entry point into the United States. CM: This community is based on an older generation of immigrants than some of the other southern tier communities? MG: Yeah, the wave of immigration from this church and this area basically in the early 1900's or the first 40 years of the 1900's. RB: Now do you know why most people decided to live here in the southern tier of New York? MG: Well wherever they have relatives or sponsors. I know that whenever the 1st generation peoples came here they looked at the hills and the weather here and they were just like "god this is just like home." (Laughter) It isn't very different here and there. I went to Sanok and it felt just like Berkshire, NY. The houses and the utilities are a little different obviously, but it basically looks the same. It depends where you have family, there are other Ukrainian churches in Florida and southern California. RB: Just a little bit more about yourself, do you currently work? MG: No, I am retired, I have a seasonal NY state job with the gaming commission. And I work 61 days a year at (Job). RB: Could you tell us what your wife does? MG: My wife is a sales associate at the men's clothing department in Macy's. She has been there for 14 years. RB: What lessons has your work life taught you and your wife? MG: To be honest, to be hardworking, I always intended to get their 15 minutes early. I liked getting to work and having time to prepare and not just jump right into things like wham! I like getting there like 20 minutes early, having a cup of coffee, and then when it's 8 or 8:30 get into it. I have seen so many situations where people got in at 8:30 and start working at 10 after 9 (laughter). So, for my wife she is conscientious and very hard-working. She is probably the most hard-working person I have ever met. This woman works even when she is on the telephone she will be cleaning the house. She'll be doing yard work after the sun goes down and I'll tell her to come on in you know it's dark out there (laughter), you've done enough today. They are just really really driven. RB: Do you believe that is because of the culture she was brought up in the Ukraine? MG: Yeah, you know kind of strict and hard-working. I know her father worked in a factory and he never missed a day, they are all pretty hard-working. RB: Do you know what family was like for her and for yourself? MG: As I said I have been to her village and her city a couple of times. It is a beautiful city, she is in a village just outside the city along the Prut River. Prut means swift in Ukrainian. I have seen her schools and where she went to school, the schools are fairly nice. It's kind of idyllic area, I swear to god it's like a fast-moving river, I mean you can still go into it and swim in it. There are also evergreen hillsides rising up and it is like you are in Deposit, NY. She had a fairly good life there. And I had a good life here. My parents bought land along the Susquehanna River. So, you know I didn't have a Huck Finn life (chuckles) but I had boats all my life. I still have land on the river and a house, but we were flooded twice and now we live in Endwell on a hill (laughter). CM: You said the schools were pretty good where your wife came from. If I remember correctly, while the Soviet Union had a lot of hardships, it always had a good education program. MG: Yeah, she went to a university. She went to Kiev University, she got a business degree. You know it is kind of difficult for people from other countries. They come over here and they are highly educated, and it is difficult translating that education experience into the mainstream of this country. I've known doctors, chemists that have come over here and are driving taxi cabs. They never achieve success they would have achieved if they were born here. Because their language is not that precise, and I know I couldn't do what my wife did. My wife came here and had to learn a new alphabet, a new language, new customs, how to do things like an American, so it's very difficult. CM: So, your wife didn't speak any English when she came over? MG: No, she went to class for English as a second language. CM: ESL? MG: Yeah. I also help her everyday with her language and she doesn't teach me any Ukrainian (laughter). RB: That's a good segway into the next question. Do you know how well she assimilated to the United States? MG: She is very assimilated, although she hurts easily. Working in merchandising you meet all kinds of people, nice people, people of different backgrounds. And she talks to customers who can't understand her, and she feels offended or hurt. But she has acclimated pretty well. RB: Could you tell us about your grandparents when they came here? MG: My grandfather's name was Mike Gulachok, although it was probably Mykhailo, but it got changed in Ellis Island. I don't know if it is in there (referring to the binder on his family) but there is a boat manifest and a lot of information in there depending on what they put in. I think that DeDe (grandfather in Ukrainian) I think he started in a coal mine down in Scranton and then moved here for a shoe factory and then he opened up the restaurant. They learned English pretty well, they learned to read, write and speak English well. They had a good life and they loved their family. They had 4 children and they are buried up here. RB: What were some things your grandparents taught your parents and your parents taught you in terms of values? MG: (laughter as he is pointing to the picture of his grandparents in front of the Oasis Restaurant) CM: Just for the interview we are looking at a picture of his grandparents in front of the Oasis restaurant. That was the family business. MG: This is Baba's (grandma in Ukrainian) birthday party, and I think this is around 1956 and this is me (points to himself as a kid) and this is my mother, and all these are family and friends. That was in the Binghamton Press. You know the cover of SGT. Peppers (Beatles album)? CM: Yes. RB: Yes. MG: Well this is the family SGT. Peppers (laughter). CM: You have a very large extended family for sure. MG: Now do you want to ask me on how I met my wife? RB: Absolutely! MG: Oh, because this is a crazy story. May 15 years ago, I was spending a long weekend in NYC, and I'm staying in a hotel up in the theatre district. I decided to go down to the East Village to see what's happening down there, so I took a bus down Second Avenue and I got off at 7th street. The street was closed off because there was a Ukrainian festival and that is where I met here. RB: Oh wow. MG: I gave her my phone and address and she wrote to me and I wrote back and yeah that's how we met. RB: That is amazing. MG: Doesn't that make you believe in fate? I mean if I wasn't in NYC or decided to take the bus I would have never met her. CM: Yeah, a lot had to happen for that, for sure. I wrote down here that you mentioned in your family history that your family worked in the coal mines and moved to the shoe factories. From what Stephan and the Father told us it seems like your story and the Parish story are very similar. MG: Oh yeah, very similar. You know some people became engineers, some became doctors, some were bartenders, some were restaurant owners, some farmers. Not everyone is a doctor or lawyer, some people have to cook the bread or stir the paint. CM: It seems though that now when you compare it to the 1920's that the Parish seems to be a lot better off now the quality of life seems much better. MG: Yeah around the 60's and 70's this area was quite booming. I mean it's been in decline but there were a lot of opportunities here. One-time IBM had employed 16,000 people, but now they employ like 2,000. There were a lot of opportunities here, the value of opportunity. RB: what was your daily life like when you first met Natalia? She is a first-generation immigrant, so she still has to get used to the country and everything-- MG: Well that was interesting, she was living in Brooklyn and I was living in the country outside of Owego on the river. I proposed, and we got married in New York City at the marriage bureau in Manhattan, had many of her friends from Brooklyn for the reception and got a U-Haul [for her belongings]. Then I brought her up here. She grew up in the country-- RB: [the Southern Tier was] as close to home as possible MG: She went from living in NYC to living in the sticks up here. She liked it here, she learned how to drive a car, etc. and I've unsuccessfully tried to talk her into moving back to Brooklyn. CM: I imagine in Brooklyn that she lived in an ethnic Ukrainian community? MG: Actually not, she lived in Sunset Park, which was mainly an orthodox Jewish neighborhood. It really had all kinds of people there. There was this one commercial center close to where she lived, and I remember that there was a Chechen night club near it, and we'd walk by and the owners would say "come on in! Come on in!" But we'd say no thanks. There were really all kinds of people there. CM: I imagine that she had to assimilate pretty quickly, and assume that she spoke some English by the time you guys met? MG: Oh yeah, she had been taking some ESL courses, and while I writing to her, she would share [our correspondence] with her uncle, who told her “This is what you need, you need exposure to the language". While she lived in Brooklyn, all of her friends were Ukrainian, which led to her being pretty insular, and she didn't speak to many people in English other than when she went to a store for instance. When she came up here, she really got immersed. RB: I imagine it'd be easier to do so up here (the southern tier), than in the hectic city. MG: If you don't, talk to anyone in a language, you won't learn it. CM: I agree, my experience has been such that I think you could take 80,000 of those (ESL) classes, but the real way to learn a language is just by being forced to speak it. MG: Yeah, you can even learn English by just watching TV, especially situational comedies. Sometimes I hear things coming out of her mouth, and I think gee whiz, are we on law and order? CM: Going off of that, have you noticed differences in Ukrainian and American mannerisms? Inter personal quirks perhaps? Such as how far away you should stand from the person you're talking to? MG: Yeah, I've noticed that she is superstitious. If you look at pictures from the old country, you'll notice that no one is smiling. RB: I have noticed that. MG: Another example of this is when I go to buy clothes at the Salvation Army, she'll say that we shouldn't buy it since it was certainly owned by dead people, which we all know is not necessarily true or important if it was. She is also afraid of the cellar, I haven't the slightest idea why, and whenever she goes down there to wash something, I always have to check in on her and ask if she is ok. They (Ukrainians) certainly have their ways of acting, behaving and thinking, which we might not be familiar with. RB: One of my Ukrainian friends told me that in his home he isn't permitted to whistle or to leave his keys on the table, is that a superstition that sounds familiar to you? MG: I've never heard that one! [Laughs] CM: If I recall, our friend also mentioned that his family told him not to smile too much, since that would lead to wrinkles in old age, does that sound familiar to you? MG: I haven't heard of that one either. However, I have noticed that Ukrainian culture tends to be less relaxes, far more formal. If you go to someone's house you are expected to kiss all of the women's hands, bring flowers, food, wine, or something. Which I feel is nice. CM: In general, that seems more formal than American culture, how do you feel that large holidays compare for instance? MG: All gatherings certainly had a larger religious aspect to them, as opposed to pagan. Our Christmas and Easter are almost exclusively based on Christianity. As you know, our Christmas and Easter are celebrated at different times than other Christian denominations. CM: Just to clarify for the recording, your church follows the old calendar correct? MG: Correct, we follow the Julian calendar. CM: And Easter coincides with Passover [in Eastern Orthodoxy] MG: Yes, and this year our Easter will fall on May 1st. CM: And do the other local Ukrainian churches in the area follow the same religious calendar? Such as Sacred Heart (A catholic parish) or the Pentecostal church? MG: No, Sacred Heart's calendar is in line with the rest of the catholic calendar, and I'm not really not sure what the Pentecostals do. RB: What made your grandparents chose this church over the others? MG: Well my grandparents were founding members of the church and were very involved in it: one of grandparents even became church board president. It was a very important parcel of their history, their culture. CM: Of course, as in many ethnic Eastern Orthodox denominations, I noticed while I was upstairs that this church has a Ukrainian flag next to the altar, and I feel that we can safely say that this doesn't function merely a place of worship, as opposed to the Catholic Church for instance. It is a national church that embodies the ethnic history and cultural values of the community here. MG: It is, and no matter what variant of orthodoxy one practices, be it Serbian, Greek, Ukrainian, or otherwise, is still the same orthodox faith. I personally feel that it shouldn't be hung on an ethnicity or an ethnic background, because religion is universal. The semi separation arose from linguistic barriers and we should always aim to appeal to and include members of all other nations who wish to pray. I do remember that very recently we had a Binghamton University student who had come from Ethiopia, and he prayed with our community while he was here. I like the idea that you can come here regardless of what your heritage is. CM: I absolutely agree with you. I do feel that this view is more widespread now in 2016 than it would have been historically. MG: I would also imagine that earlier generations wouldn't have felt that way. I feel that people have become more thoughtful, open, and progressive than they were in say the 1930s. CM: It seems that if you had an Ethiopian who felt comfortable here that we could characterize the parish itself as progressive and open one. MG: Yes, we were happy to have him here. RB: Just going back to your relatives, what sort of things did your parents teach you to regard as important? Such as the values they imbued in you? MG: Honesty. Honesty, and hard work. I can't say love of family; don't get me wrong we loved each other, but we didn't really reach out to far. I started to get more involved in the church as of the 1990s and am happy to have seen society as a whole become kinder, and more well informed. RB: Going off of that, as a 3rd generation Ukrainian American and a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, what do you feel best defines being "Ukrainian American", [as a Ukrainian immigrant would see it] and with regards to how you yourself would define it? MG: Pride and love of heritage. My family came from an area of the world that had been persecuted, repressed, and that made heritage all the more important to hold onto-- I consider myself an American first and a Ukrainian American second. I value passing down our culture to the next generation, especially given the hard times that we [Ukrainians] have faced. Ukraine has been in the geopolitical crosshairs for centuries. Ukraine itself means "borderland" in Russian, which is evidence of its struggle through the millennia. That being said, I saw an online map of the changing borders of Europe over time, and we certainly aren't the only people to face such issues. Going forward I want to see the Ukraine succeed, and to be able to provide a better and more prosperous life for the Ukrainian people. You didn't happen to see the frontline documentary about Putin did you? CM: No, but the two of us have managed to keep current as to the basics of the current situation in the Ukrainian [i.e.: Russian invasion of Crimea in 2014], and the country certainly has had a rough few years recently--. CM: We could also ask you this: The Ukraine itself isn't a monolith: Many Ukrainians belong to different religious sects, such as the Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Orthodox churches, Judaism, the Pentecostal church, etc. Some Ukrainians speak Ukrainian at home, other Russian, others Slovak, etc. I suppose we could say that there are many potential elements that can come together as part of a Ukrainian identity. MG: All of those elements can vary, at the end of the day it is identifying with your heritage. If you were to google my name (Michael Gulachok) online, you'd find that there aren't any aside from me. I am proud of my name, and moreover my heritage. It feels like I'm one of the last Mohicans in a way, because I am probably the last one. CM: I suppose Gulachok is a rare family name then? MG: Yes. An interesting fact is that the word "Gula" in my last name had its origins in the Catholic Church and related to debauchery [laughter]. CM: My own last name translates to smuggler, so you never know [laughter]. MG: For all we know I had a drunken dancer as the family founder [laughter] RB: Given that you are a 3rd generation Ukrainian, and your wife is 1st generation, what sort of values are emphasized in your household? What do you find most important in the household? MG: Well, when my brother visited us recently he said "You know, this smells like Baba's (Grandma's) house." Meaning the food that we cook, the icons that we have, and our artwork aren't very different from what my parents and grandparents would have had. When you step inside you instantly get the impression that you're in a Ukrainian enclave. I had a beautiful watercolor painting of the church that was ruined in the flood in Owego, and I still have it in the abandoned house. Now it seems sort of impressionistic. CM: I guess it morphed into a Kandinsky [laughter] M; Yeah either that or a Polack. RB: How does your religion shape your Ukrainian identity? MG: It is very much a part of who I am, when I had once physically left the church, I hadn't spiritually done so. The sermons here, and the liturgy are nowadays roughly one-half Ukrainian, and one-half English. It is a very integral part of who I am and who we are. CM: In my own experience, it seems like an uncle of mine who wasn't too religious, but the church was always a part of the Greek identity. I feel as though the same applies in this community, and I feel in every sect of Eastern Orthodoxy, that the church life is integral in shaping the ethnic identity. MG: Yes, I would agree. RB: Would you say that you are more American, or more Ukrainian? MG: I am more of an American, while my wife is more of a Ukrainian. CM: Your wife of course lived there, and you mentioned that you've revisited Eastern Europe a few times. MG: yes, I have been to Poland three times, Ukraine twice, Slovakia once, Russia once. CM: Over the course of your visits, did you notice any change over time. MG: Yes, especially in Poland, which is doing very well. Ukrainians look over the border at Poland and think "wow, the Poles are doing so well, if only we could do that". That and Ukraine is still struggling under the thumb of Russia, the people just want a better life for themselves and their children. Poland is truly doing very well. The first time I flew into Warsaw, which is actually pronounced "Var-SHAH-va", the airport was very substandard, it was a dreary and dilapidated cinderblock building, and then just a few years later in the early 90s, the airport and the city itself had rapidly transformed. CM: Just to clarify, when did you make your first visit? MG: I first visited Russia and the Ukraine in 1992. CM: So, the USSR had just fell. MG: Correct, and the people were very excited for the future, Ukraine was free. CM: So the general feeling wasn't a more apprehensive "what do we do now?" It was more of a "finally! We can't wait, Thank God! This is the best thing that could've happened! MG: I never like to travel in a tourist bubble, when I went to Russia and the Ukraine for the first time I traveled with a peace group, so it wasn't a sightseeing itinerary-based trip, we were able to really immerse ourselves and met a lot of people. We travelled extensively, by train, taxi, boat, plane, horse. People were excited, they didn't know what would come next but they were excited and hopeful. RB: I recall you saying you and your wife travelled together to your wife's village. Did she ever say how it has changed if it has at all? MG: There is definitely more building going on, newer/ more modern homes have popped up. Keep in mind these are single family houses, I'm not talking about multi story towers. The town looks like the old country aside from some new housing. The school especially looks very modern. CM: You said that during the interlude between your visits, the area had changed quite a lot. Perhaps you could touch on the change in culture, and access to the outside world? MG: They want to become more like the west, and it is not as closed as it used to be in Soviet days. The people now know about what is going on in the world. RB: Do you feel that the Ukraine is becoming more Americanized. MG: I would say maybe more Europeanized. After all Europe is right next door. RB: Going back to the home, what sort of traditions do you retain from the old country in the home? What sort of things, such as Ukrainian Orthodox history matter a lot in your home? MG: Well it goes back to the holidays; Stephan could probably articulate this better than I. But we try and keep our holidays in line with our Ukrainian Orthodox traditions, and our house. RB: If I recall you speak some Ukrainian? MG: yes "У вас є сестра?" (Do you have a sister?) [Laughter] "принести мені пиво" (Bring me a beer) [laughter] C; All of the practical terms I suppose MG: Of course, "Вибачте, де туалет?" (Excuse me, where is the toilet?) CM: Yeah that'd definitely be good to know [laughter] RB: Do you and your wife speak Ukrainian at home? MG: Well she does when she swears at me [laughter] she swears in Ukrainian. We have Skype, and she'll speak Ukrainian on Skype with her friends from Brooklyn and New Jersey who don't speak much English. She does have Skype connections with some people back in the Ukraine, but unfortunately none of her relatives live close to someone with access to Skype. So she isn't able to look at and speak with them. But it is definitely nice that she can keep in touch with some people in New York and the Ukraine with it. CM: Would that be because her friends are from a developed urban center like Kiev, or Odessa, etc. MG: Yes, those people are certainly more prosperous, and have greater access to the globe. CM: So it seems that there is a much greater disparity between urban and rural Ukraine than urban and rural America. MG: Oh yeah, the cities have become very cosmopolitan and cultured, there is also certainly more economic activity going on in the cities. It is amazing to see horses and wagons. CM: So you still see that to this day? MG: Oh yeah, there are a lot of cars, but yes. The first time I went to Poland I was amazed by the sheer number of farmers using horses and wagons. After ten years had passed there were substantially fewer. RB: Even within ten years a country can certainly change a lot, and I believe we have just about exhausted our time. CM: Yes, right now though if there is anything you would like to add, or something you feel we didn't cover please add it in. MG: As is I'll probably think of it as I walk out the door. [Laughter] RB: Thank you very much for sharing the stories of you and your wife. CM: Thank you very much, we enjoyed it a lot. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Gulachok Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource <p>Michael Gulachok. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Broome County (N.Y.)</p> Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gulachok, Michael ; Markotsis, Constantine ; Brown, Russell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Michael Gulachok is a third generation Ukrainian American who has lived in the area for his entire life. Natalia, Michael’s wife, is a first-generation immigrant from Chernivtsi, Ukraine and has lived in the United States for two decades. Natalia lived in Brooklyn until marrying Michael and moving to the Southern Tier. Michael is a retired insurance salesman and lives in the southern tier of New York with his wife. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-12 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Michael Gulachok.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-06 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 58:23 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/71ae87a5cd1744c9575d68e564205975.jpeg 23b9b3b0526d5eca637485b644c9ecd3 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2f7dec43aa1994e5a82686ebddf39b68.mp3 a5b219f8ae3e8b0f1e3c31a9714833bb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Heather DeHaan and Aynur de Rouen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Peter Hatala Biographical Text Dr. Peter Hatala was born in Johnson City, NY and he is a first-generation Ukrainian American. His father was an immigrant from Ulychne, Ukraine. Dr. Hatala is a retired orthodontist. He is married and resides in Vestal. He has six children and two grandchildren. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 81:41 minutes Date of Interview 2016-06-23 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Hatala, Peter. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Church; Ukrainian folk dancing; Broome County (N.Y.) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Peter Hatala Interviewed by: Heather DeHaan and Aynur de Rouen Transcriber: Marwan Tawfiq Date of interview: 23 June 2016 Interview Setting: St. John’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Heather DeHaan: So, first I want to thank you Dr. Hatala for agreeing to be interviewed. We are on Thursday of the 23rd of June 2016, and we are in the basement of St. John’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Johnson City– Peter Hatala: In the boardroom– HD: In the boardroom. PH: Right. HD: In the boardroom where we also have at our disposal a number of collections of family histories for members of the congregation um that were gathered at the initiative of doctor Hatala. So, could you begin by giving us your full name? PH: Uh, my name is Dr. Peter Hatala. I was uh born in Johnson City in New York on the North side, August 16th 1932, and uh I am a uh Johnson City Graduate, but uh before that um of course my roots have been my father Nicolas Hatala was from Ulychne in Austria-Hungary and uh he was born in 1882 and passed away I think in (19)73. HD: So, 1882 to 1973. PH: Right. HD: Okay, so um, first of all when did your father come to North America? PH: He came in uh 1910. I have his Ellis Island uh certificate, I do not have it with me, and my mother, I do not know when she came in, I was thinking around 1912 with her uncle or with her brother actually. There is only three in the family. So, she came with one of the brothers and actually here is the family trees signed by … that on the website and of my mother, right there. HD: Ok, so your mother was her name– PH: Kankavich? HD: So, we have it, Maria. PH: Yes. HD: Okay. So, Maria came with her older brother, her younger brother and a parent? PH: Josephine, yeah, her mother was Josephine. HD: Okay. PH: Came with an older brother and, they came through Ellis Island also but I could not get her Ellis Island certificate and a lot of it was the wording of the name or how it was spelled. I had a hard time getting my dad’s until I saw his name spelled in Polish with a J on the end, and his name was Nicolas. So, I never put a J on the end. But it was that is how I got his. So, I am going to try to get my mum’s too. I belonged to Ellis Island before, long time back and I am going to join again because I want to go there. My daughter lives in Long Island. And uh so I can hope over to Ellis Island very quickly when we go to visit them you know. I was going to do it this time over the July 4th weekend but it was not such a good time because it was going to be so busy and probably the safety part of it she said is not that good either you know, so– HD: Yeah, I want to go back to thinking about when your parents came through Ellis Island, do you know why they came, and did they come directly to Johnson City? PH: No, actually the reason why they came was just to have a better life from what they had and the fact at that time, this was in the early 1900s, you know, the lifestyle there was a lot different than it is today. So, I am sure they had hard times and they wanted to better their lives and everything that is why they came over here. My dad first came through Ellis Island and was in the Scranton, Olyphant area in Pennsylvania, and I did have an uncle in Olyphant but since then he has passed away so I have not really followed that that lineage there. But he worked in the coal mine for a while, did not like that so he heard about uh “which way EJ [Endicott-Johnson Shoe Company]” and decided to come to Johnson city and actually that was part of it but he had a farm outside of Windsor for a while and then left that and was in an apartment in Binghamton and then that is when he started working for EJ’s. HD: Okay, so he sold the farm then, in order to work at the factory? PH: I would think that he did but you know it was like 258 acres that they had but the funny part about it is, you know, all the EJ workers were building their own homes in Georgia for foot to mortgage and everything else you know. He was a phenomenal person and he built this area up you know really Johnson city but my dad bought a house on Harry L drive and it was just like a two-family house. He put an addition on, how he did it I have no idea, and but it ended up where he paid for that house too. So, I do not know where there a mortgage to EJ’s or not I do not really know. HD: Is the house still here? PH: Yes. In the corner of Harry L drive in Pearl Avenue. That is where I was born and raised. There is a little story about that house I will have to tell you afterwards, or I can tell you now. HD: Actually, tell us now I am very curious. PH: When I was probably about 12 years old or so. There is an empty lot next to our house and the Oasis restaurant. It was bout and the whole side of the building came a part like this and you know all the glass and everything and the glass in our house was gone and everything, and I remember that, you know. HD: I bet, I think anyone would… that must have frightened you. PH: But the reason why was he was still selling bears for five cents a glass and had to be the mafia or something and after that he you know followed the rules I guess. HD: Raised the price. PH: Yeah. HD: Wow. Was the Oasis Restaurant owned by a Ukrainian? PH: Yes, Mr. Golitruck. HD: Okay, I heard… We interviewed Mike, one of my students did so– PH: But we grew up with that family actually, you know, so he was very instrumental and keeping the Ukrainian traditions going because he loved the dancing and the plays that they used to have and he brought in student teachers then was Avramenko who was well-known and everything and he gave a class here that my brother and my sister were in that first class. So, this I think was before our church was even built. HD: This is a class in Ukrainian dance? PH: Ukrainian dance right, and plays and– HD: So, what was the name of the instructor again? PH: Vasyl Avramenko. HD: Avramenko, okay. PH: Yeah. HD: Okay. Very interesting. Um– PH: I never met him [laughs]. HD: [laughs] PH: I had the pamphlet that they had though, you know, so. HD: So, your mother’s family; are they also from former Austria-Hungary? PH: Yes. HD: From the same region? PH: Actually, if you are looking at Poland now; here is Poland here is Ulychne right here and down about, you know, I do not know maybe fifty miles or less maybe ten miles, I do not know, is Tara Vavruska. That is where my mum was from. HD: Okay. PH: So, it is the same area; Austria-Hungary. HD: Okay. Further south. PH: I do not know when they met, where they met, anything of that nature, you know. And during the war, before the second World War and a little bit afterwards my mum always kept correspondence with her family, you know, and in the late forties is when all correspondence stopped. So, she could not get a hold on them anymore and this was because the Polish and the Russian government split up the families and their whole family was split up. So, actually I ended up meeting my uncle Leon Gancevich when I was over there with my daughter Pan. And he lived right next to the German border, so that is where he was transported from one side of Poland and they split up the whole families. You could not go two people from one family going to the same place. Split them all up. HD: So, this was deliberate then? PH: Yes, yes yeah! HD: Wow! Um go– PH: But actually, a lot of it was the Russian influence too not only the Polish influence you know, but um, yeah. HD: But now you are… are you in touch with anyone else on your mother’s side apart from– PH: I was with Leon in fact, my two granddaughters when they came and met us he brought us his brother and, no must be his son. And then two granddaughters and they had just taken two years of English. So, they were the interpreters because I could not speak Polish, I could understand a little bit of Ukrainian but, and that is a different story too. HD: That means they grew up speaking Polish not Ukrainian? PH: Yes. HD: Okay. That makes sense. PH: Well actually, you know, like my mum or my dad was Ukrainian but he could speak Polish. My mum was Polish but she could speak Ukrainian, so they talked both languages there. HD: Okay. PH: Possibly even, you know others too, I do not know. But they wanted to learn English especially my mom because my dad working in EJ’s, you know, got a lot of that so he was a citizen already and my mom was not. So, I used to teach her, you know, all the questions and everything that had to be done and that was great. HD: Did your mom learn Ukrainian? PH: Was she what? HD: Did she learn Ukrainian because she grew up she was Polish? PH: She knew Ukrainian, yeah. No, she… You know I would think that she was Ukrainian. I never thought that she was from that side of the, you know, from Polish. But the name of course is a Polish name, you know. So– HD: Very interesting– PH: But I always thought she was Ukrainian. AD: What was the language in the house when you were growing up? PH: It is very interesting because both my parents wanted to learn English and of course, you know, my growing up I could not really do too much with them but my brothers and sisters did too while they were still living there. So, I kind of grew up by myself because by the time I was 12 or so or younger my brothers and sister had already been married and moved out of the house. So, they were stuck with me [laughs]. HD: How many of them? How many children were there in your family? PH: Five; two brothers and two sisters. Yeah, in fact this year, my two older sisters passed away; one at 92 and one at 96, and one in February and one in April. Yeah, so we came back from Florida a little bit quicker, than what we wanted too, you know, and my first sister Annie passed away in February, so I came back and you know went through all of that and they were sharp as tacks, really, you know, unbelievable. And my sister Mary especially, you know. But I spent some time with them before and I came home about a week before my sister Mary passed away so I came home on a Sunday. I spent a whole day, Monday with her, she lives in Port Crane and we talked for about two hours, you know. And she says I am getting better every day. So, you know, and I talked to her every day, went up there a couple of times and talked to her on Saturday before she passed away. So, it was nice. HD: Did everyone stay in this region, so your brothers and both of your sisters? PH: Yes, both of my brothers did, both of my sisters did. HD: And are they all members of this church? PH: Yes, well no my two brothers married couple of Polish girls from St. Stanislaus so, that was the church that they went to, you know. They stayed with their wives. HD: Okay. PH: But we are a family we are still very close. HD: Yeah, and I guess my other questions do you all in your homes maintain Ukrainian or Polish right, some sort of homeland tradition and practices? PH: Mostly Ukrainian. HD: Okay. So, this is intriguing to me. Why the Ukrainian when you also have Polish in your heritage? Do you have any idea? PH: I think a lot depends on the traditions, you know, as far as our immediate family it was always Ukrainian, and actually my wife was Catholic, Roman Catholic, we got married in a Roman Catholic Church but I stayed with St. John’s and she stayed with Saint James and at that time the Catholic religion was changing a little bit you know, it went from Latin to English, and then they had music in the churches and everything else too, you know, so she was kind of disenchanted with that, so I think about three years into our marriage she, we sat with father and Pani and uh she decided to change. So, she did. She is a great Ukrainian, Polish– HD: [laughs] PH: And Slovak. [laughs]. She was Polish and Slovak, yeah. HD: Okay, that makes sense, um now with your wife’s family, was she also born in Johnson City, did she grow up in Johnson City? PH: I did not, she did. HD: And her parents worked at EJ? PH: Actually, her dad worked at EJ’s first, her parent her mom they had eight kids so she was a stay-at-home mom. Then he left EJ’s and worked for IBM. He worked evenings because he was an avid golfer so he would golf during the daytime and worked at night. HD: Wow! [laughs]. So, before I wanted before I talk about your own family, you know, raising kids, I am really curious about um life on the street, near where you grew up because you know there was Ukrainian quarter store, the Oasis is Ukrainian restaurant, there are two, now there are two Ukrainian churches on this hill, there must have been a lot of Ukrainian people living on the same street, what was it like when you– PH: Yes and no. They were kind of spread out all over the place. I mean there is a couple of families on Myrtle avenue, there is, there quite a few on Pearl avenue, some on Harry L drive, you know right in that whole section on the North side primarily. And it was because there was a church there and the church originally was in a grocery store. It was Kiriam’s grocery store on Harry L Drive that was where they had services to begin with. And then they went from there when the church was built they went from there and right up to the church on Virginia Avenue. And that was in, the church was built in 1929 but the church itself was started like in 1926 that was when they had a Ukrainian community there, you know. And my parents were one of the founding families also. So, there were you know quite a few families and it was interesting how they started though, you know, so– HD: So, when you had time to play as a kid, did you mostly play with your siblings, did you go on the street and play with other kids on the street, did you go to the church? PH: Not my siblings were– HD: They were older– PH: Yeah, they were older so, and actually none of them graduated from high school. I was the first son to graduate from high school. HD: Interesting– PH: So, in those days, you worked, you know as soon as you could you support the family and help the family and both my brothers worked for Endicott Johnson. They both had Endicott Johnson homes, you know. So, that was one of the things too, you know. Maybe my brother Nicks was not in an EJ home, I do not know but my brother Joe’s was. He was the oldest one anyway. But my growing up we had about 20 or 30 guys in that whole neighborhood but like over two or three streets and everything, and very active but especially sports, you know. But we did not, you know, twelve years old when father and Pani came here. That’s a different story I will get into that after, but actually our neighborhood was just strictly, you know with the boys we played Kick the Can in the street and other things you know. Hide and go seek, kids I do not think do that anymore [laughs], except maybe in the house. HD: [laughs], yeah-yeah. PH: But it was a great growing up, you know. And my parents were fantastic, I mean we had no car, did not have a car we walked every place, you know. And they were great parents. HD: So, your father walked to work? He worked to EJ? PH: Yeah. Walked to EJ’s. I walked to high school. I walked to Harry L Drive; I walked to Johnson City High school to see Fred. You know, so I did walk. HD: Wow! PH: Getting little tears in my eyes. HD: [laughs]… What about, how much was the church a center of social life beyond just Sunday? PH: For me it was and anybody in that age range really was more when father and Pani came when I was 12 years old, but there was a lot before that because I was an altar boy at seven that was usually when you can become an altar boy and we had, we did not have Ukrainian dancing then. I mean there, I think there was an older group but we also were very instrumental and singing our Christmas Carols on the seventh of January, and we used to go from house to house when I was a kid you know we started Ukrainian school at the age seven and it was five days a week from four to five o’clock in the afternoon. I hated every minute of it, because that was when we played in the neighborhood, you know after school. So, as a consequence our teachers were not that good and probably was a priest or somebody else I remember, you know, and as a consequence I did not learn very much Ukrainian and my parents did not teach me Ukrainian. They wanted know English. So, you know I spoke to them in English and they spoke to me in an Americanized Ukrainian, you know, so that is how we got along. But, you know, like I said at that time like when I was seven, I think my sister Annie maybe still home but my two brothers and older sister were not, you know, so, but I feel badly about that now because I started in a choir when father and Pani came I was under a couple of other priests as an altar boy but when I came when I was 12 when they came in he wanted to start the choir so he put me in the choir and took me of the altar because he had a lot of altar boys. So, I started singing tenor in a choir now I am a bass [all laugh] but since I was 12 so I am still, you know, I have been singing almost 72 years. HD: You are still there. Wow! PH: In a choir so. HD: And I have heard your choir, it is beautiful. PH: It used to be a larger choir than what it is now, but you know and it was great, all my kids sang in a choir too in order once; my son Mark, my daughter Pam and the other ones did not sing too much there but they know all the Christmas and carol’s and things. So, when I was seven they had a children’s choir that we went. We used to walk in Johnson city just couple of streets in a winter time in a snow and that is how we did it, you know, they had another regular choir from our church choir that went around and you know to all the houses and things and they had an adult choir. They used to go to all the Oasis’ and night clubs, not the night clubs but the other beer joints or whatever restaurants… so we had three choirs back in those days. HD: So, I am curious because you know this hill that the churches on, there are a lot of EJ houses and the streets go straight up the hill. Did you walk up those hills? PH: Oh, yes. HD: How did you have enough breath to sing [laughs]? Wow! PH: You know it is funny because growing up we had the CFJ pool, you could swim there for nothing. We did not do that. We used to build dams in a creek you know, and we had that were six and eight feet deep. That was how they were. So that is what we did. That was kids growing up but we still went to the CFJ pool too. But that is where we played in the creek you know. We used to play under water tag and you know water was clear so we would get side throw it in, dirty the water up so you could not see anything. That is how we played. [all laugh]. HD: Most people want clean water, right? PH: Well, you know, we did not so we could not see each other you know. HD: Yeah, that is great. PH: That is great and then, as far as walking up to hills, we used play in the hills all the time, and we would also go up Stella Island Road to, it used to be a dairy farm up there that had a little pond. So, we used to, we even built a damn that far up in a creek you know, so that was up until I was like 12 years old or so, you know. So that is what we did. HD: So, the rule was you could play until supper time? PH: Uh Actually, when I was going to the Ukrainian school from like about 7 until 10 I think, I think after that I do not know what happened, maybe it was more than that, you know, tough to remember back [all laugh] that time, you just remember the good things in, but else happened you know. So, the neighborhood itself really very-very, you know, it was just really a good bringing up, you know, kids do not do that anymore. And right on the corner across the street from us was Collis’ grocery store and a gas station there. So that was always the headquarters. We would always be sitting there. So, my mother came out about 9 o’clock at night and say, she would say, Peedie come home [laughs] and I would get embarrassed all the time. So, I was probably one of the youngest ones in that group, you know, of the 20 or 30 that we had. So, I was the all-time center in a football team. I get killed all the time, and we used to get on a bus in Johnson City on Main Street travel to Endicott with our football gear on, play an Endicott team and come back on a bus. The parents never took us anywhere, of course my parents did not have a car but the other parents did not take us anyplace either, you know. So, this is how we grew up. HD: Did your wife grow up in the same neighborhood? PH: She grew up on Reynolds Road which was kind of the Oakdale such in a Johnson City. That is where she went to school; Oakdale. All of our group went to Harry L Drive. So that is what it is now. It is an apartment house or a nursing home now. HD: So how did you meet your wife? PH: That is a good story [laughs]. It had to be I think about 1956 because I got home from the service then and I was tending bar at Saint Jon’s social club and some of the girls from our church were good friends with her. And they came down and I think it had to be when she was 18 because I think I made her, her first screwdriver, so you know, I remember that and she remembers that. So, that is when we met, you know, we just met to say hello that was it, you know. And a couple of the girls from my church were in her same little group in school. So that is how I met. So, I became interested and uh actually I was about uh 26 when I got married and she always she was thirteen. [all laugh]. But she was not. So, a couple years after that we got married. I think the following year it had to be, no it had to be let us see more than maybe (19)57 is when I went to Georgetown and second year is when we got married, my second year after Georgetown. HD: So, why did you go to Georgetown? PH: Dental school. HD: Okay. PH: At first, I, actually I got out of the high school in 1950. I worked for a year I did not go to college, and I worked as a bookkeeper and truck loader at Douglas Collins Supply Company for a year. And then I went to Broome which was not Broome then it was New York State Institute of Applied arts and Sciences. So, I went there for two years in Chemistry. I thought I was going to be a chemical engineer. And I got interested in Dentistry after I have got out of service. But before that there is no reason why I would become a dentist as a youngster and we did not have regular dental care or anything, you know, so I went to the EJ dental clinic and I had three first molars extracted– HD: Not a great experience! PH: So, how would I want to be a dentist you know– HD: Oh, no. [laughs]. PH: So, those teeth actually came in, my third, my second and my wisdom teeth came in, three of them and I just had one wisdom tooth that I have had taken out eventually. But that was it. HD: So, when were you on service? PH: 1954 to 1956. HD: Okay. PH: I was in a Signal Corps, and I went to a foreign country, Puerto Rico. HD: Oh. [laughs] PH: For two years. HD: Was it a good experience? PH: Yes, very much so. HD: So, anybody else, I do not know how it works in military, is there anyone else from this region that went with you, signed up at the same time, ended up in the same area? PH: There were two that came from this area that went to… we had to go up to Syracuse for a physical, and once we went through there, we went to basic training together but then we got split up during basic training. HD: Okay, and then you met your wife after you came back? PH: Yes. HD: You said was the Saint John’s social club? So, tied to this church? PH: Yeah. HD: Interesting. PH: That is in the memorial center, still is there. HD: Okay, so was it open every evening or once a week? PH: Well, I think it was open every evening back then, yeah. HD: And they had a bar you said? PH: They had a bar, yeah. And of course, I would be in the bar we did not get paid or anything but you know that is how it was. HD: And did a lot of people come including people from outside the Ukrainian community? PH: When I was a bartender we had, we made the most out of anybody there that whole month. HD: [laughs] That is great. PH: Because I got all my friends in, you know so. HD: Yeah. So that whole crowd of 20 or 30 you hang out with, did they all come? PH: Well not that many but a few, yeah. HD: Okay, that is really good. So, now you met your wife, in that interlude between meeting your wife and actually marrying your wife, for instance when you brought her home, I mean your parents are already Ukrainian-Polish mixed, so they must have been thrilled, did they care what her background was? PH: My mother said why you do not marry a nice Ukrainian girl. HD: What [laughs], okay? PH: But my wife Phyllis was fantastic, you know. HD: Yeah, they could not… what about her family? Did they want a nice Polish boy? PH: No, not really. I just taught her mother a little Ukrainian saying, and once I told her what it was that was it you know. So, she loved me from that time on. HD: What was the saying? PH: [all laugh]. In fact, I told Phyllis this too, so she memorized it, I did not tell her what it was. [speaking Ukrainian] HD: Okay, and can we have the quote? What does it mean? PH: “How are the chickens shitting?” HD: Oh. [laughs] PH: So once her mother knew that, that was it. HD: That is very funny. [laughs] PH: [speaking Ukrainian] HD: Yeah. So, now– PH: So actually, I met her that first time after my first year in dental school, so the second year is, or it had to be the first year that I met her because then we start going out through now like, she would not go out at first and then we did go out for like two weeks and that was it. And I was wearing a new outfit just about as much as I could so after first week or a week and a half so I had to go back to what I wore before actually and she did not but I did not know she was borrowing clothes from her girlfriends. HD: [laughs] Oh, that is great. PH: Yeah, she had a different outfit on all the time. So, we went for two weeks we had such great time. We went out every night after the first date. You know. HD: Where did people go? PH: We went to, first date, we went to Schnitzel bank which was a restaurant on upper Court Street, and they had these little straws and we used to break them and it would fly up to the ceiling so we kept doing that we just had such a good time and good dinner and everything, and then after that we went to one of the pick stands in Endicott and that was it we had such a good time. HD: So now you… after you went to dental school, you got married– PH: I got married after my second year of dental school. HD: After your second year? PH: Yeah. HD: Okay. PH: During the second year. HD: When you finished dental school, did you work for someone else? Did you set up your own dental office? PH: I was already accepted to Ortho-school when I was a senior I had applied and we had our first child then, and it was like in May of the year I was supposed to go up to Buffalo for an interview, Pam was being born, she was born in April but she was. It was still, you know, was not ready to… it was the first part of April. I was in the middle of the final exams and had no money to go from Washington D.C. to Buffalo, so I called and told them, and said I cannot do it. So they put me on an alternate list and so when I got out of school, when I graduated, I worked for another orthodontist, Dr. Orchard in Binghamton and of course they wanted me to come in to the practice and everything too you know, but I was only there a couple of weeks and set up a preceptorship program and at that time you could do it that way but it had to be approved by the American Orthodontic Association. So, it was approved but the problem was I set up the program and you know, so I did not get much input from Dr. Orchard. So, I knew I could not get the education I needed so I was there like two months and it was approved and everything and I called Buffalo again and they said well come up for an interview which I did, and when I, they said well we will accept you the following September. So, when I went back and told Dr. Orchard he was not very happy but I told him why and I said, it is changing and everything and you just have to have the education. So that is what happened. But he still had me on a payroll and everything, you know I was getting 75 dollars a week and that is what kept us going so, that was really you know. That is how it was. So, when I came back after that of course during that first year with Dr. Orchard is when Dr. Mark was born and we went up to actually I went up to Buffalo myself for three months, my wife came up after about three months or so, and she was expecting then and that is where Jeffry was born in Buffalo. So, Pam was born in Washington… right where one of the Kennedy’s was born at the same time so, I met him there when I was… We watched him coming to the hospital, you know and everything. Pam was interesting because that was our first born and we did not know what was up or down and the OB guy we had was fantastic, you know, he did not charge us a nickel and the… he wanted to know what kind of anesthesia you wanted, you know, and my wife did not want any pain she said I do not want to feel any pain or anything baba so we had a general anesthesia, believe it or not they do not do that anymore. HD: No! PH: So Pam’s first breath was taken after about 12 minutes after she was born and I have it right on her medical records and everything and I did not get that until Pam became, she went to nursing school at Georgetown, So I said pull up your record and make a copy for, you know, so she did 12 minutes underlined in red first breath, so of course they did not cut the umbilical cord anything you know but that is what happened. HD: So, now we asked before the interview, but I am looking at the information again now how many children do you have? PH: Six. HD: Six. How many boys, how many girls? PH: Three boys, three girls. HD: Okay, and do they all still live in this area? PH: All live in the area except my daughter Pam who, not Pam but Nicole who married a boy and from Massapequa park in Long Island and they came here, they lived in New Jersey for a while, they came back here and he got his MBA at SUNY Binghamton and so they lived here for a while then at that time he was working after that he worked for IBM for a little bit of time, then once his friend from Wall Street was a managing director up in stockbrokerage firm in Boston and he took a job up there. So, you know they got them a free ride up there and everything else and he became actually a managing director himself while he was up there. So, she is in Boston my other daughter Christie when Nicole got married another boy from Massapequa park was in the wedding ceremony too so he kind of liked Christie so they were going back and forth and they got engaged and disengaged and got engaged and then finally got married, so then she moved to Massapequa park. That is where she is now. The other four stayed here. HD: And what events… I think you said that they come… everybody comes and they gather here for Ukrainian Christmas? PH: Ukrainian Christmas right, on the 7th of January– HD: And the Festival, in mid of July. PH: Oh, the ones that can, make it from out of town. But they usually do and we do it on Easter, so our Easter is always… so it is different from American Easter, they would all come in the town on Easter. And my wife does all the cooking. AD: Ukrainian? Does she cook Ukrainian? PH: Yeah. Well we have Haluski and Pierogi and you know. HD: So also, how many grandchildren do you have? PH: Nineteen. HD: And how many great grandchildren? PH: One and a half. [all laugh]. One year old, she is like fifteen or sixteen months. She is unbelievable. You know, she calls me Beepa. Well, Pam called us Meema and Beepa, she could say Grandme and Grandpe, so my wife is a Meema, I am a Beepa. We used to have that on a license plate, but we do not have it anymore. HD: So, raising you children, was important to you that they knew something about Ukrainian tradition? PH: Well they were involved in a church all the way through their young life, adult life and afterwards. HD: So, what is it…? What aspects of Ukrainian culture are particularly valuable you think for your children and grandchildren? PH: Well we have to go back to when father and Pani came in 1945 because they were a big influence on us, and they had the ability to be a member of everybody’s life, you know. Everybody thought that you know, they were part of their family which is really true. So, we used to say to our kids, if you do not behave we are going to tell father and Pani. So that was kind of a hammer over their heads you know, but they were fantastic people. And they instilled the traditions, you know the caroling, the dancing. They started the dance group when they first came. And I was 12 then but she said to the boys then and there was a couple of thirteen, fourteen look you do not have the dance with any of the girls, you just do the sort dance and the woodcutters and bluh-bluh … So, then we did that for a little bit of time and then she kind of introduced us to the female aspect of it with dancing, you know we did not dance with girls then, you know. It is different in today but that is what happened. So, we had a great dance group. We probably gave pretty close over that ten-year period time that I danced probably over 100 premises you know all over the country. We used to do it for the EJ dinners and stuff that they had there too. We would have dancing there. We also had an Andrews Sisters act that we put on too myself, George Stasko and John Milwaukee and we did that for a while too but somewhere in those books. HD: So, when you were raising your children, and it might not be even a Ukrainian thing, right what were some of the… what are some of the traditions that brings your children seem to cherish and really want to hold on to, the things that really brought your family together? PH: Well I think it has to be the main stays for the Ukrainian music, you know, the Christmas Carols, the choir carols and things. It had to do with the dancing because they all grew up when they were, started dancing, at two to three year of age and they still do. And it had to be the Christmas celebrations, the Easter celebrations, so and then on January the 7th we used to carol from house to house. And we still do that today, and right now we go… we used to go by cars all the time you know, in the snow and sometimes all the cars would get there sometimes they would not, they get lost or whatever. Now we have a bus, and we all get on a bus and you know, even the young ones and we go. HD: That is great! PH: Yeah. HD: So, do all your children go to Ukrainian Orthodox Churches? PH: Uh-huh. Yep. HD: Great. PH: My daughter goes to… there is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Boston but we go also to an Albanian one. It is the same divine liturgy and everything so, because it is close by and the Southern one is you quite a distance yeah when we go up there we go to Albanian Church. But we have gone to the Ukrainian Orthodox too, so. HD: So, this is something I am curious about too; and it is not necessarily though Ukrainian history per say because the liturgy is shared even though the language changes from one church to the next an Orthodox tradition, do you find you can go to any Orthodox Church and feel very much at home. PH: It is the same Divine Liturgy that may put in a few of the ethnic languages in there but it is all the same Divine Liturgy, you know, and actually Orthodoxy was before Catholicism. So, that is how it started, you know. And so, it goes back, you know that far. HD: That is right. PH: But it has not changed. It is the same Divine Liturgy, you know. HD: What about icons, do you have icons at home? PH: Uh-huh HD: Okay, and are they for religious purposes or are they art? PH: Well, as far as icons are concerned, in our home themselves, we have some but it is not like you would have a lot of them, you know. There was a church in Dover, Florida that a monk built himself. He was actually a doctor and worked in University of Tampa, and that is the most icons I have ever seen in any place. He brought them back from Ukraine and you know, and it was just fantastic, it was a small church almost like almost like our old Church on Virginia Avenue, and he built a rectory actually it was a monastery and he built a memorial center with his own money and I have been there quite a few times and actually whenever the metropolitan, at that time he was a bishop and an archbishop but now he is metropolitan but, would come in to town there so he would always call us and say you got to go to Dover you know because I will be there. That was when we went to Dover. And it was about an hour plus drive from where we were and but I am talking about the young canister, so that is the most I have ever seen. I have been to Ukraine a couple of times and I have been to some of the museums there and everything. Iconography, was you know, was very big there. So– HD: I mean my question was in part whether very traditionally in you know Ukrainian peasant homes or Russian peasant homes they would have an icon corner for instance, right? PH: Yeah. HD: And so, I am wondering if anything of that was carried over to North America an antique in contemporary homes? PH: Well I think it has in a lot of the homes and things. It was not necessarily in ours to begin with. And the iconography, Andreov who lives in Lisle or Whitney Point one of those places was the one that was instrumental and did our iconography behind the altar here, so and that actually was… I was on that iconography committee and it almost split the church in half because of what was happening, Andreov was actually Russian iconographer and it was not so much him as it was the priest we had at that time father Zaroski and who was from Lviv in Ukraine and I have been in Lviv which is a beautiful city and that is a whole different story there but the thing is, the iconography seemed to divide the church because of things they were happening and what they wanted to put up there and what they did not, you know, we had a committee and the committee decided which… what we should have and during like in the middle part of the thing the iconographer wanted to put in a couple of seraphym and cherabum and just we did not want have that in there. So, we took that part out of it, out, and then what happened is that we got a call and I got a call and one of the other guys on the committee called said you know, you got what you wanted now. You wanted these angels on each side of the icon wall and that is where he wanted on the outside of the icon wall, not on the inside where the icon is. You know, so they put it, he put it on the inside without telling the committee or doing anything and you know that kind of you know really made it hard and half the church was okay with-it half was not, you know, so that is really what happened. HD: I do have to say as someone who is not a member of the church and who is not really well-versed in iconography it is a real pleasure to come into a church like that, and I grew up Calvinist, there were no images, and so it is a particular… it brings joy, you know to see it. PH: Right, it does. Icons actually do that. They really do. HD: Yeah. So, we have been talking for over an hour and I do not want to– PH: We have been talking that long? HD: Yeah. So, is there something that I did not ask you that you really wanted to share or were hoping I would ask you? PH: I had somethings here that not about my… but I did on jobs and things I do not think that is really important although I had some very unusual once. Growing up we used to pick beans on a daily basis, peas and beans and a truck would pick us up right on Harry L drive, we go to the fields pick the beans, used get fifty cent a bushel, and it took you a long time to do a bushel. [laughs] HD: Oh, yeah. PH: So, and then drop you off at night. Well one summer, they slogged it, some of the guys in our group, we went up to Norwich and we stayed there for like two, almost three months during the summer. No parents, no parental control, nothing you know, just us, but it was our same group from the area, you know, plus they had other people too, you know but so we pick beans and peas for almost two and a half months. HD: Where did you stay? PH: We stayed in shacks that they had, you know it was kind… like you would see in the movies– HD: Shacks without houses? PH: Shacks with you know bedroom and then they had an outhouse and everything you know. But that is where we used to stay in. AD: How old were you? PH: I had to be probably, probably I was in thirteen, fourteen, 12, 13, 14 area range. HD: This is interesting too, so you worked. This would have been a summer job. PH: Yeah, a summer job. HD: Did you keep your wages or you expected to contribute to the family? PH: Actually, if I remember right I kept my wages. And I remember buying a very colorful sweater and that was it, you know [all laughs]. And when my mother saw that she said, you know, how much did you pay for this, you know, so but we did not make a lot of money, you know, but it was more of… we used to go swimming in a river there, you know, so it was just that was what we did here too, you know, we swam in a river in the Susquehanna many times. HD: How did you find that job? Like did someone come to your high school was– PH: No, this was the job that they did during the summer. These trucks would come and if you wanted to work, that is how you pick peas and beans. HD: Oh, you just went down to Harry L and– PH: yeah, they would just pick us up, you know– HD: Interesting. PH: we probably had 10 or 12 guys went, you know from our area here. And– HD: Did women ever go? Was it mostly young people? PH: Mostly I do not remember too many women going, no. There were no women at the thing in Norwich, they were just men. HD: Oh, yeah, very interesting. Is there anything else? PH: I took Chemistry, you know at Broome, and I was hired by Columbia Gas in Pittsburgh because my next-door neighbor worked for Columbia Gas here, so he said why you do not see what they have, you know. They have an opening there. So, I called and two of us from the class went there and we were accepted. We were building a Chemistry lab, took us two weeks to do that, got all the equipment and everything for testing corrosion on a gas pipeline. Okay, so we had that all done in two weeks. I get a call on entry office and the bus wants me to Willing West Virginia in charge of a 26-inch gas construction line, and you do the corrosion on it too. So, I said I do not know anything about construction or anything he said well, just check with the supervisor, that was it, you know. So went myself by myself, you know I went in for the power wagon and things drove all the way down from Pittsburgh to Willing, West Virginia. It was the first time I was in a power wagon [laughs] had no idea what to expect but anyway a good old redneck all-timer took me under his wing and we got the job done. I am sitting in the dugout where the pipeline is going, you know, and I am checking, putting in some test wires and things and I get up to go out and here is the pipeline up above and a cable snaps bang right where I was sitting– HD: Oh, wow! PH: So, that was I remember that experience very clearly, so yeah. That was kind of-of unusual, you know, then another one I had to do as I had, after that was done, I was put me on another job there was just the two of us from Broome tech and four engineers and I went with this one engineer to Cumberland, Maryland to put in a six foot carbon thing in a water tank, you know these big water tanks you had to climb up and everything. So, I was with this engineer who was afraid of heights. So, I had to carry everything up on that back and forth, a settling torch and all through you know put it on the well into the tank and everything and that was probably one of the worst jobs I have ever had. You know, that was– HD: yeah, so who was sending you on these jobs? Who was your employer, who was sending you on these jobs? PH: It was the guy who was in charge of the corrosion, the department. He was in charge of, he and four other engineers, and the two of us that set up the… and the other guy went with was the guy who was testing the corrosion lines in lab but I did not do that [all laugh]. HD: So, you did this and then before you went to the service? PH: Yeah. HD: Very interesting. PH: After, in fact I came home and worked for six weeks at home, putting in corrosion lines from where Quaker Lake is from that area north for about six weeks, so I put in all the corrosion lines along that pipeline. And then I went back to Pittsburgh and I got drafted. So, they wanted to keep me out, I said no I am going to go in, not knowing– HD: Where– PH: You know, so I was like had to be like about 22 years old. HD: So, was it the experience of having to climb up that water tank that made you decide to be a dentist? PH: No, [all laugh]. I got interested in dentistry after I got out of the service really, and I checked into it and I needed one-year biology in order to get in to the criteria that I needed for dental school. So, I checked with one of the dentists who was a New York State president, New York State Dental Society Dr. Irvy and he said do not go to dentistry. He said it is changing so badly that you know and of course I did not know anything about orthodontics then either but I said well, I still thought being your own boss and you know and doing everything you know that would be the thing to do, so that is what I did. AD: So, your son took over your practice, he is the only other one who studied orthodontics? PH: My youngest son is also a general dentist. AD: Okay. PH: And I let him make up their own mind, I did not push him into dentistry or anything else. So, he did about the same thing that Mark did. So, to get into Eastman Dental you usually have to have two years of general practice, general dental practice and so, Mark and Peter both went to general practice residency in Eastman, first year, second year they took a TMJ, temporomandibular joint course for a year and then you could get into orthodontic school. Right now, I have a grandson Patrick who just graduated from Buffalo Dental. He is accepted to the Orthodontic program at Eastman. He started in 27th of this month, without any experience. That was probably because Mark was on the staff of Eastman Dental, because he still goes up there and teaches up there. So, that is great and Patrick could come back in maybe go take over Mark’s practice. HD: Do you have any family members who work in the practice like behind the desk? PH: Oh, yeah. Well, my wife took care of the pay rolling, when she was when I was working. Both Mark worked in the lab in fact when he was a senior in high school. I sent him up to Buffalo for a week to learn how to all the models and retainers and things, ok, so that was his experience there. All my other kids who worked in the office do as much as I could get them… Mark’s kids do too. AD: Was your office like his office, because we call his office like Disney world? PH: I was in a home. It was Doctor Orchard’s practice, and actually there is an apartment upstairs, and it was a small, you know, we had four operatory and it was tiny but we used all the space that you could. So, Mark was in there about ten years. And I was there when three years after Mark took over. So, that is where it started. It was not like Disney world but we did a lot of nice things you know. We started the scholarship things he gives out every year; ten scholarships, ten or twelve. AD: Yes, he uses a lot of character work is that from you? PH: Well that is when we were together, yeah, we started that. And but he is the entrepreneur too, you know. That is really good. So, he takes a school, you know at least one student from each school is gets a scholarship, you know, so. In fact, he just got something from the Binghamton School system too because we give things to the health area you know and some other things there that he has been doing all that time too. You know so. It is we started way back when… So, it is nice. Yeah. HD: It is great. AD: I always ask this question, so I will ask you too. So how do you identify yourself? PH: How do I identify myself? AD: Yes, like when people ask let us say you are somewhere they do not know you, and how would you say I am American– PH: I am Peter Hatala, you know. I am Ukrainian. AD: So, you say I am Ukrainian? PH: Yeah. AD: Okay. PH: I mean if you get into that conversation, yes. AD: Of course, like when you get in. So, being Ukrainian is part of your identity? PH: But usually I say oh, I have six children and 19 grandchildren. [all laugh] AD: Of course. PH: I do not say one and a half grandchildren. So– AD: So how about your children? Do they identify themselves as Ukrainian or American-Ukrainian? PH: I think they would say Ukrainian also. Of course, American-Ukrainian, you know. Yeah, I think they would. AD: So that is still, that is really important; that it is still continuing that– HD: Did your children marry Ukrainians? PH: No. Pam married an Irish man. Actually, when they came back to this area, they came back here. They continued dancing in their adult lives, Bill was Irish and he did Ukrainian dancing, you know. HD: Especially there is a lot of work for the men– PH: I remember singing at Robinson and putting on, not only the singing, you know the choir, but also, they were dancing and both Pam and Bill were dancing at the time there, so yeah. That is Pam; Mark married a redneck from West Virginia [all laugh]. And they still talk to it; she was from Pittsburgh, West Virginia. One red light in the whole town, okay, so we went into this one establishment. There a restaurant and I think they still talk about it, you know. Yeah, that was quite a party. It was interesting because Mark likes to do things unusual too, so when we had the dinner, you know after the ceremony and everything in this one building we found an old black coffin. So, we put Mark in the coffin and carried him in for the dance. HD: Wow! [laughs] PH: Yeah, opened up the coffin and he comes back out and… [laughs] that was a fun time. That was Mark, let us see. The next one would be Jeff who married a Slovak girl from, actually, no she was from Saint Michael’s. That is right. So, she was Slovak Russian I think. And Next one is Nicole she married the Massapequa Park so, and then Christie married the Italian boy from, they are both Italian boys from Massapequa Park. And Peter married a nice girl from Vestal. So– HD: But all their spouses what is interesting if I understand correctly they all participate in Ukrainian traditions? PH: Yeah, all of four peter’s kids they live about three houses up from us, are all dancers now. They are in that book, so, it is great. AD: That is wonderful. So how did you get interested in working with these– PH: Family history? AD: Family, yeah– PH: One of our friends I grew up with was George Stasko left a church after he got married. He did a family history on his family. They had twelve kids in the family. So, you know that was a nice book, I said boy that was a great idea, you know, I am going to do that with my family and I think for the church it would be super. So that is how it started. And I think it started like about I do not know, 19 2011 is when I first got the idea to do it. And we had about fifty families, and these are the families that we have right here, you know and who I gave the books to and everything else. So, but you know we get a few more. I got one from a gal who used to be a dancer in Saint John’s Paticarium; got married and moved out of the area and they are in South Carolina or Virginia someplace like that. She sent back a book, and just recently her husband had some cancer problems and things so, she wanted to get the book back, you know, and she actually she gave it to me to begin with so, I had to copy that whole book [laughs] and you know send back the original to her. So, you know, but that was… but she said is it okay if I, you know keep the copy and everything, she said yeah that would be fine. So– HD: It also looks like you have been doing research into your own family history. PH: I am sorry? HD: It also looks like you have done a lot of researching into your own family? PH: Actually, what happened, Zenon … was instrumental in this? Each year he gives a speech in New York city, they have a seminar, it is all week long in the evenings and everything, and he talked about you know whatever is interesting at that time but one of the people from Poland came over and gave a talk on Ulychne. So, after the program he went up to her and he said you know our church has a lot of people from Ulychne, and she started crying. She was so happy to hear that, you know, so because that was her job in a Polish, I think she works for the Polish government. She is checking on all those people that came over during that time and everything so, I got her name. I emailed her and did not hear anything. About three months later I get a call and it is this Eric and I do not know I cannot remember the last name, it is a good Polish name called me and he… Phyllis would not let him talk to me. And then he says well I want to talk about Ulychne. So as soon as he heard that name I got on the phone. We talked for about an hour at least you know, and he said he wants to start a website on Ulychne and he heard that I was doing you know of that people from our church came so I sent him all that information and everything you know and he did set up the site. www.ulychne.org and this is where I got these things from. And he went, and found both families like this. And I know my father had two brothers and one sister and I knew the sister was in Paris since then she has passed away which I did not really get a chance to talk to her. That is another story anyway but. So that is those are from Ulychne site right there. So, I did get all the rest of my father’s family and I got a lot of my mother’s family, and you know. HD: And is this site is in English, in Polish. PH: English and Polish. HD: Okay, excellent. PH: Yeah. HD: Excellent. So, do you have more questions? AD: No. PH: There is a couple of other things that I did. The timeline on our church with all the priests, the organization and the timeline from 1926 to the current thing. We I still have to finish the last page or so but that is all way up to our current father Evan. HD: And you keep, you mentioned several times father and Pani. PH: Lawryk. HD: You mentioned as someone a Pani Julia. Got it, okay. PH: Yeah, Pani Julia. That is there book over there I would know if you had a chance to look at it– HD: No, not yet. PH: I can pile that one. Right there. He was as close to the Saint as I will ever see. HD: Really? PH: Really, unbelievable. HD: Was he born here or in Ukraine? PH: Oh, that’s father Zolachetski. She has got the one Father Lark. HD: Was he born here? PH: No. I think he was born in Ukraine. His mother was an Obstetrician and he actually was in a Marine Corps before becoming a priest and I just like the front part here was one part but back here is, and this is Pani Lawryk actually. What is a priest is fantastic; I always put that in there. And that is what he wrote into one of our books and everything. But Pani, you know, after he passed away, she moved to Texas where there actually Minneapolis she moved to. Her daughter lived in Texas who passed away. She had an anemia type a thing. And died very early but she went to Minneapolis because that is where she was from and her brother was still out there and everything. And our whole family went to visit her, I been out to her couple of times visit her you know actually with my wife and then we were going to take the whole family for her birthday. So, we did, we all went there all our kids, you know and we came in and did not talk to her that evening. We got in there like, you know afternoon or evening. So, we were going to meet all the next day with her family. So, we were going to have a birthday party for her. She passed away that night. HD: Oh, wow. PH: And we did not know it until the next morning. So, we still went on with the party too you know. HD: You could still celebrate her life. PH: Yeah, that was tough. AD: You mentioned life story of a woman like you said 43, 50 pages long a story right at the beginning of the interview, you were talking about somebody and then you said– HD: They brought up their story. AD: –Am I exaggerating the page numbers? PH: Oh, this is the… no…. Pani Lawryk interviewed her mom while she was still alive. AD: Okay, yeah. PH: And she was born in 1904 and it is in that book, the biography… That is fantastic; I mean it tells how she lived and how they lived in those days and everything. HD: So, I am looking at this book, just looking at the images from father and Pani they seem very charismatic. PH: What? HD: Very charismatic. PH: Yeah. HD: You know a lot of energy. She is very striking actually. AD: She is like an actress, right? HD: Yeah. PH: She was a great dancer too. Yeah. HD: So, we should stop the… Thank you, I want to thank you so much– PH: Okay no problem. AD: Thank you so much. HD: That was really wonderful. PH: Yeah. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian Americans; Immigrants; Ukrainian diaspora; Vestal (N.Y.) ; Ukrainian folk dancing Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Peter Hatala Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource Hatala, Peter. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Church; Ukrainian folk dancing; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hatala, Peter ; DeHaan, Heather ; de Rouen, Aynur Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Dr. Peter Hatala was born in Johnson City, NY and he is a first-generation Ukrainian American. His father was an immigrant from Ulychne, Ukraine. Dr. Hatala is a retired orthodontist. He is married and resides in Vestal. He has six children and two grandchildren. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-06-23 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Peter Hatala.WAV Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-23 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 81:41