2 10 18 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2e59527ded2e9601aee5939924d74b81.mp3 5bd4fad5db616f38e418cced94cc7f69 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Adrianna Watson Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Biographical Text Adrianna Watson is a college student majoring in Law and&nbsp;<span>is a second generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born</span>&nbsp;in Johnson City. She&nbsp;<span>lives in the Southern Tier of New York with her large, extended family.&nbsp;</span> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 71:36 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Watson, Adrianna. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Ukrainian folk dancing; Ukrainian cooking; Summer camps; Broome County (N.Y.) 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Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Oral History Project Interview with: Adrianna Watson Interviewed by: McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Transcriber: McKenna Hage and Kevin Hiller Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:00 AM Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) McKenna Hage: OK, so would you mind just stating your name and date of birth where you're from for us? Adrianna Watson: Adriana Watson, Umm1/14/97 and I am from Binghamton New York right here. I am born in JC Wilson Hospital, so right here. MH: And can you just tell us a little about yourself? AW: Yeah, I am a college student at BCC. I actually just changed my major to law, I'm going for to become a lawyer. I am Ukrainian, very proud to be Ukrainian. I come from a huge, huge, huge family [laughs]. Church is basically all my family plus some, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't know what else you wanna know? MH: You said you're proud to be Ukrainian, what are some of the things that you really take pride in and how has it shaped who you are? AW: I take pride in that I can say that I am Ukrainian, that I've been given this so and so freedom, since Russia is always there trying to take over the country and what not. Being an independent from and being an independent country, even though I was not from Ukraine, I am American born, I take-- it is very -- it is very important to me to always share my heritage to everyone, no matter who they are. And I take very much pride because my family rose me Ukrainian. My first language was Ukrainian even though I was American born. So but I am not as fluent as I used to be, but it is still a lot of fun. Holidays always around Ukrainian, Easter is ridiculous, Christmas is even more ridiculous. We have about oh! a good 100 people over at the house. MH: Woo, that's a lot. AW: Yes it is, we have dinner there. We have a whole bunch of the certain meals that we have to eat a certain way and we pull the hair and we tap the spoon on the head with peas and what not, it is a lot of fun. All home-made food, my grandma makes all the food, it is ridiculous and then we go to midnight mass, and then we go to my priest's house with caroling. And it's a lot of fun. Easter is a lot of fun too. I just, my friends have always been, want to know so much about me being Ukrainian just because I am so open about it. I am very open about who I am, where I come from, I like to explain to people. I like to tell people how proud I am to be Ukrainian. Actually, in fourth grade I was in the paper. My teacher saw how proud I am of my heritage, and I was in the paper for it. It was, it was a lot of fun and I've been very open about it and just, it's just been around me my whole life. My whole family, here obviously, is just so into it. So I've grown to be into it as well. MH: Now, when did-- were your parents born here? AW: My parents were born here. My grandmother was born here. My grand-father wasn't. So that's where I am second, I am the second generation and my great-grandparents were or my grandmothers grandparents were born in Ukraine, so that's where I am the third generation, kind of confusing I know, but that's where I am from. MH: What were-- what brought your grandparent over from Ukraine? AW: Which, my grandfather? MH: Yes. AW: Okay, my grandfather because he was in such turmoil in Ukraine, and he was separated from his family when he was very young, at my age around 18/19 years old. He was actually from Ukraine, separated from his family, taken to I believe Germany and that's where he was pretty much raised. So he kind of spoke a lot more German than Ukrainian, because that's where he was living, so then his family was moved to Poland. So my grandparents' family is in Poland right now instead of Ukraine, but they are Ukrainian. Another confusing kind of thing. But then he came over here because Germany was in such turmoil with the World Wars and whatnot so he came over here though I think Parris Island? No not Parris Island, what am I thinking. Ellis Island. My friends are from Parris Island. Ellis Island, I actually went to Ellis Island, his name is there, it's very touching, very cool. It's very cool you know to see your grandfather's' name, he died of cancer but that's another story. So that's how he came over here. My great grandparents came over here I believe to get married. I am not 100% sure because I never met them, and my grandmother just always tells me how wonderful and good people they were. "titka" means "aunt" in Ukrainian by the way, just a Ukrainian term. They were like the first of the church, and brought up through the church and knew the old church so I think that's what they were. They help built it and stuff like that, my grandfather did, my great father did at least. MH: Did your grandfather, since he grew up in and spent a lot of time in Germany, was he still able to maintain his Ukrainian heritage? AW: Yes, oh yes. He came over here and was like we're raising my kids Ukrainian, that is it, end of story. No matter how long he was in Germany, he did teach my mom and my aunts a little German, because you know it better to know more languages, right? So, but he was definitely hardcore Ukrainian just like the rest of my family is. MH: Did he settle right in Binghamton? AW: Oh, yes. He settled right here in Binghamton and that's how he met my grandmother, yeah. MH: Wow. AW: Yeah, yeah. MH: Do you know of any struggles or hardships he might have faced? AW: Oh, man, in Germany? MH: In Germany and here in Binghamton. AW: Okay, in Germany, I know one story my grandmother would always tell me was, he remembered bombs and he remembered being in a ditch for days, because bombs kept going off off and off. And I think that was his last straw to come over here. Over here he met my grandmother right off the bat so they got married rather quickly, and they started having kids. My grandmother was raised on the farm so she was kind of independent, she was the oldest. Very independent, you know, I am my own woman but we're going to get married. They raised four kids, and it was very hard, they were poor, they did not come from wealth at all. So they raised their own name, and through the church- the church really helped bring them, you know- give them family, give them more purpose kind of thing. So religion was very important to them. My grandfather, when he became ill, was when the hardship really happened and my mom was I think nine when he passed. So my grandmother was basically left alone to raise four kids by herself, she had two jobs, so really they came from nothing. They did it! And my uncle is a doctor, my aunt's a nurse, you know, very successful, but they did it. It's- it's amazing how, you know, they came from literally nothing and he came from such distraught and torn away from his family and he comes over here but still had nothing. But family was really important in the Ukrainian heritage, extremely important. I can't even emphasize that enough because without family-- it's just-- It's very prominent. Kevin Hiller: So, what are your favorite kind of family traditions that you have? AW: Oh, I love these, Oh Christmas is just the best time of year, I love Christmas that are just all-around family. We invite everyone over that is family, even non-family you know, we just bring everyone in. Another tradition is making pysanky. I love making pysanky at Easter time; Ukrainian Easter eggs. Ukrainian dancing-was just a lot of fun; I graduated so I kind of had to end that. But it was just a ton of fun. Man, everything about being Ukrainian comes with it, eating food, making paskas, making food, learning how to make food-amazing. Because I get to experience that and not a lot of people do, you know. And I am very grateful for that and I take that to heart for me, because my grandma is passing on her traditions on to me which is amazing, it's just a lot of fun. MH: Do you have any other family stories that really stand out or mean a lot to you as a Ukrainian that you've heard? AW: Oh boy, let me think-- my grandmother, other than being strong, my grandfather coming from absolutely nothing--oh boy. I know a lot of.. Another one of my other cousins Hegoslavka, I think you guys interviewed her. Did you guys interview her? MH: This is my first time-- KH: Yes, this is my first interview too. AW: Oh cool, ok, so another group interviewed her last time, so they might have a little more detail, but she went through hell and back. Excuse my French. But it was, she went through everything. Literally in Ukraine, didn't know where to sleep, didn't know where she was going to eat. She didn't know, she would sell coats, she would wear five or six coats, she would just sell them for money, for anything. She sold everything. She had a whole family she had to provide for, and she did. She did it. I mean through bombing, through raids, through you know witnessing shootings right in front of her eyes. Witnessing her family being killed. It was horrible, but she survived it, again family really is what brought her to America and what really kept her alive- her providing for her family. And her trying everything she can to keep her family alive is- that amazing and it's an amazing story. She's gone through, I don't know, a lot. I only know little snippets because she becomes very emotional obviously talking about it, but ugh, she-- Ukrainian women and men are just so strong, they have been through literally everything. So even as little as going to the doctor and admitting that they need help is just so hard for them because you know they don't want to do it, they're strong, you know what I mean? It's just ugh, it's just amazing, you know, what you're capable of when you are put in those situations. And she did the impossible. She literally came and didn't know where to sleep, slept on the road, slept on different couches, just knocked on doors and just asked to sleep and eat. They ate bread and that was it, another reason why there is bread everywhere [Laughter]. Why we eat so much bread, but yeah, her story is amazing, I only know snippets, but it is an amazing story. MH: Have you ever been to the Ukraine or would you like to visit one day? AW: Oh, I have never been, but I am dying to visit, when, once I graduate college, and get my feet together, I definitely want to travel the world, and my first place would be Ukraine. And Poland because to visit my family. But I have been offered many times to go to Ukraine, money wise, it's hard because I'm only a college student, so you know what it is. [Laughter] But yeah, definitely one day. Definitely. MH: Do you know where in Ukraine your family hailed from, was it rural was it in the city? AW: It was more rural, really, it was villages, umm the villages they came from are not there anymore. So, if I told you, it would be- you'd be like "What? Where?" So, it's more in Western Ukraine, near Poland, that's why Poland was the best route for them, they were more near the border. Kiev, I have family from Kiev, I know people from Kiev, which is the capital. But yeah, more western Ukraine. Southern-Western, something like that, I'm trying to look at that map [points to a map on the wall] but yeah that's where they're pretty much from. MH: Have you ever faced any sort of discrimination being Ukrainian here in Binghamton or was there ever a period where the church came under fire for anything in the community? AW: Umm, I personally, I've experienced some kind of, you know, hesitance for being Ukrainian. To be honest I really- it was an awful situation and someone was like "oh well you're Ukrainian so it doesn't matter what you say". Something kind of like that. That kind of was just a sentence but it kind of was like really? Really? Really? We're in America, we live in such different ethnicity, like come on. But I have, but I still say I'm proud. I don't care what people say, I am Ukrainian, if you don't like it, get on with your life, that's pretty much me. What was your other question? MH: I think you pretty much covered it. But in contrast to that, what are some of the good things that you have experienced? AW: Just reaching out to the people and, you know, connecting to people, you know. I drive down the high way. I've a Tryzub which is the Ukrainian symbol on the back of my car and you know, seeing other people Tryzubs, I honk [Laughter], I say "hey what's up, we were like connected," you know. At BU, I mean BCC, even at BU, I met Ukrainians and stuff like that. There is a lot of Ukrainian out there I didn't know about, I mean they came over from Ukraine and they're starting over at BCC and stuff like that. So, I met a lot people there which is very cool because we connect obviously. I mean I reach out to every Ukrainian I can and I say "oh, you're Ukrainian? Alright, cool, we're new best friends." Like that kind of thing. I've um, I just-- it is just a lot of fun. I go to Ukrainian camp in Ellenville, New York, and I do that my whole life and I've met whole many amazing, amazing friends over there. It is a like a whole new network of friends. Just kinda weird we talk about how my American friends and I met my Ukrainian friends because they're totally different. They really are. How we act together is just totally different, it is a lot of fun. I definitely reach out to other Ukrainians and I definitely, you know, say "Hey, what's up? Let's talk" and stuff like that. Because why not, you know? I mean we're pretty small. I mean Ukraine is pretty desperate and you know not very rich so, might as well reach out to other Ukrainians and see how their life is and see what they've gone through, and what I've gone through and stuff like that. MH: Can you explain how your American friends and Ukrainian friends are different? AW: My American friends, they're very interested but--they are not as religious, and I don't want to put that as how different they are. But they're not as, like, family oriented. Like for example, my one friend, she's an only child, she barely spends time with her family. She's kind of out of the house doing whatever she wants. Me, on the weekends, I am family, 100%, all the time. Literally, I sleep over at her house, eight o'clock in the morning have something to do, always something to do. And so I leave, I go to my family, Ukrainian stuff, obviously, and then church obviously on Sunday, so that's another thing. My Ukrainian friends were very- we're all the same. We're all around family, we're all around religion, we are very--we just kind of act the same too. We have like a different--persona about ourselves, you know what I mean? So, it just, it's just different in that sense of how family means to one another. Not to be like, "Americans don't think family means anything to them", because they do. But it's just the difference of celebrating certain things like holidays and stuff like that. Like how we celebrate Christmas and Easter. You know, my American friends really don't celebrate as in depth as I do. And my Ukrainian friends, we do. Or when we go out, we have zabavas. Zabavas' dances. It's totally different being Ukrainian. All we do is Ukrainian dance. That's it. So Ukrainian dancing is another huge thing that is just different. I polka. I polka and waltz. So, my friends, they're not used to polka-ing or waltzing, so when they come to our zabavas, our dances, they're like "What the heck is this music? This is like from the 1930's". I am like, "It's okay, you just go with it, it is just one two three, you just go". But yeah, it's different in that kind of aspect, just how we live life and stuff like that, which is okay. It's definitely okay. I definitely have a big influence on my American friends' lives and I definitely bring them into my life since it is so different, but I definitely make it work at the same time, so it's a lot of fun. KH: What are some common misconceptions that people might have about Ukraine and what would you like them to know or what people think of the community here in Binghamton? AW: I think sometimes people think that we are too hard headed, that we're too- we don't, I smile a lot because- but I know a lot of people from Ukraine they don't really smile. They don't really want to get to know other people, you just have to let them in. Once you go ahead, and you're in, they are so heartwarming. They're so caring, because they have been through hell and back, excuse my French again. [Laughter] But they're very hard people. They're very hard to read, very hard to crack a smile with. You know, you have my uncles who are from here, they've been through- they have been through it all too and they really sometimes it's like- I'll even be like "Oh, well should I say that? Should I not say that? I don't know what to say", you know what I mean? But once you get to know a Ukrainian, men or women, they are very caring. They will do anything for you because they know what it is like, and they know that if you go through something that they'll help you. I think that's the most- that's hardest thing for other people to get in on with Ukrainians. I smile a lot because that's just my personality. I'm a very open person, very open minded, but a lot of Ukrainians just cut it off and just don't want to get hurt from other people, because they have been. So I think that is the most--yeah. MH: Do you think that's changing all with the younger generations? AW: I do. Me, personally, I do. My generation has been very open and honest. I think it is just the older generation because they did come from Ukraine and did come from just distraught and what not like that. MH: Do you know how the community here in Binghamton has changed since your grandparents and great grandparents immigrated? Do you know how the history has been influenced? AW: We try to keep the history of Ukraine to the history of Ukraine. We know that it's changing. We know that the language is changing, with the new dialects are whatnot. We are considered, what my grandmother likes to say, the "old regime language", which means that sometimes when we communicate with other Ukrainians it is difficult to understand them because they're more, I don't want to say "Russianized" because they are from Eastern Ukraine. They come over here and we're like, "Wait what are you talking about?". So, it's difficult to communicate anymore with other Ukrainians but we still do it, we accept it, we are very open about it because we understand that it's always going to change. The community is changing to be more open minded and more open to other people coming to our heritage. We understand that we can't have all Ukrainians here in this church, we can't have all Ukrainians everywhere. I mean, we're going to marry other people, it's not going to always be Ukrainian. And I mean you just gotta open up and make the community wide. Any, you know, my father's not Ukrainian, he' English. My mom married him, and he came to the church and he considers himself Ukrainian because we're so open about it. We bring 'em in and we're like "Listen, you're part Ukrainian now". He was baptized in this church. Yeah, he was baptized in this church and everything. And he is now a Ukrainian dance teacher, I mean he literally never knew anything Ukrainian a day in his life before my mom, so-- [Laughter] That's a lot of aspect to how it is changing, bringing more people in and trying to introduce our culture to theirs. MH: Do you know what your father really found shocking at first or what he sort of loves most about becoming this new Ukrainian? AW: Family. MH: Family? AW: He really does. I mean, his family, it's not perfect, no family is perfect, but it's very kind of just distraught. They are not very close, they're not very like "Oh, let's hang out every holiday". Our family, doesn't matter what holiday it is. Thanksgiving we have a huge party, big family comes over, everyone comes over. So, I think that is what he really likes the most is how he has made so much family here, that he considers family, even though he's not. He has made so many new friends too, I think that is what he takes much for granted with being Ukrainian and being introduced into the family. It's just family. KH: Was he religious at all before? AW: Yes, he was Christian but he didn't go to church every Sunday like he does now. So that was a big aspect about being baptized, which was huge and amazing and hopefully maybe I'll find someone like that someday because it is hard. It is difficult nowadays. But yeah, he is amazing, he is awesome. MH: You said before that even though this community is more open and changing. Is it still considered more conservative than others? AW: Yes. MH: And in what ways, you know what sort of practices are still rigid in structure? AW: Like religious-wise? MH: Yeah, also culture-wise. AW: Definitely church. Going to church on time. Being there every Sunday. Going for holidays and stuff like that. We go for every holiday. Thanksgiving eve. We go to church. It's a big thing. It's huge for our family to be at church on time and to be there every Sunday, every holiday. It's good though, it really is. It brings up a lot of things. It is conservative, it brings up a lot of morality wise and stuff like that. It teaches you a different side of what other people are thinking or whatever. It's really good to be on both sides, because I've seen both sides. I understand both sides. My dad's and my mom's. I think that church really what makes us that way. MH: Do you know when your great-grandparents immigrated, what their immigration experience was like? AW: My great grandparents, I think they also came through Ellis Island, I believe so- either that or they came on a boat, I'm not sure. But their experience was very hard. It was extremely difficult. It was not easy coming over here from nothing, from a different country, it's difficult. Even nowadays for immigrants it's hard. But back then definitely with all of the turmoil, and the war, and that possible terrorists out there and what not. It was difficult for them to come over here to improve their lives, and their name and become an American citizen, but they did it. It was a long journey, but they definitely did it and thank god for that because I wouldn't be here. MH: Do you know what their occupations were? AW: I honestly, my grandfather was a farmer and my great grandmother did nothing. They raised, on the farm that I live on today actually, he had a little shop that my great grandmother, worked at as well. They did that in Binghamton actually. Do you know where St. Michael's is? Right around the corner there used to be a little shop, and that was their little shop. And they literally built it and did the best they could, like a little hardware shop or whatever. At my house there was actually a little gas station. Right in my front yard, it was kind of weird- just one pump. And they also lived off of that. They lived off of selling their meat, their eggs, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's how they raised farmers. My whole family was farmers. My grandmother and all of her brothers and sisters, there was nine of them, so they were all farmers, raised on the farm, and working hard. My grandmother stayed home, my uncles went out to college and stuff like that. My grandmother I don't believe even went to college, she worked jobs her whole life trying to support her family, and support even when she was living with her parents. So, farming that's it. MH: So you said you live in the same house, I think that is so cool. AW: Yeah. It's 140 years old. MH: Oh my gosh! KH: Wow! AW: It's an old house. It's amazing. I mean, you can just feel- sometimes you can feel the presence of my great grandparents which is just amazing. Still the same barn across the street, just a red barn. We don't raise cattle anymore and stuff like that but back then, you know, seeing where they would slaughter them, where to keep them, where the horses were, were the chickens were, we have a chicken coop in my backyard too, so we use that now for storage. But it's really cool living in the same house my grandparents raised and built their name. MH: Are there any sort of specific objects in the house that have a story or some importance? AW: Oh, boy! My-- we actually have my great-grandparents wedding cake still. MH: Wow! AW: So that's in the house, which that is really cool because that thing is like-- I think it is like 100 years old to be honest with you, very old. But it is really cool to have, you know, that presence there. And we've changed a lot of it, we used to have old wallpaper that they had, oh man was wallpaper was just horrible. [Laughter] When they talk about horrible, I'm talking about horrible. So, we repainted that but we've redone the whole house basically. The barn is really what we kept alone, obviously we use it for storage and whatnot. But there's still hay up in the barn, so it's really cool to, you know, feel the hay from when they were alive, you know what I mean? I mean, it connects me to them since I never got to meet them, which I would have loved to have met them. But yeah it is cool, it is cool. MH: Can you explain the significance of the wedding cake and in Ukrainian tradition? AW: It's like a regular wedding cake. We do not cut it, we shellac it, so we keep it forever. It is the meaning of the bond of a marriage because you keep it forever, you shellac and keep it. We have a party to make it with all our cousins. The bridal party, we invite whoever- it is usually women who make it- we invite the women over, we sit there, and we all make the dough. The center of it is paska. Paska is like sweet bread, have you ever had Day of the Dead bread? No? It's like a very sweet bread, very light. Oh, my grandma makes the best paska- again bread is huge. [Laughter] We make that first and then we make little chotchkies which are like little birds, and like flowers and stuff like that and then we shellac them, we all lay them out separate after the shellac and let them dry, and then we take toothpicks and we just stick it on the cake and we add like branches and stuff like that and then we stick them on with ribbon, and we make it whatever design you want. There's so many different designs out there, I mean my grandmother knows all of the designs, I have no idea. But, whatever you want. You can have three stories, my moms' is four stories high, it is like this big [motions with hands], with those flowers coming out everywhere, ribbon, birds, everything, it is really cool. KH: So, you have your mother's wedding cake as well? AW: Yes, my mother's' too. So she, even though my parents are divorced, she keeps it because it is of such significance, it's beautiful, it really is, and it sits up on the corner, next to my grandparents. So it's cool just to see both generations kind of just sitting there. It's really cool. My grandmother has hers at her house, but hers is huge. But it's amazing. KH: Are there any objects, you mentioned the Easter eggs before, can you just explain the significance and the process of making them and what it means? What it signifies? AW: Yeah, making Ukrainian Easter eggs is an Easter tradition, obviously with eggs. Like Americanized eggs, but we just add more designs onto them. It's a process, a very long process, but a very fun process. We take the egg, we put wax on it, we dye it, and then put more wax on it, light it with a flame, then we take the wax off it, and we have an Easter egg. It is really cool to be in that tradition and have that. I introduced it to a lot of my friends, my friend have made Ukrainian Easter eggs before, it's a lot of fun, we have a good time. But we display them over the house. We have two different displays at my house, personally. But at Easter time we put them all over. We have little stands that they stand on, and we just put them in the entrance or in the family room or up in my room, I have a few eggs of mine that I've made and we definitely show people, we kind of show them off because it's part of our tradition and it's part of who we are, and you know it's a good thing to be around. You know I want to introduce it to other people and I have and obviously they made some with me and it's really cool that I can put it on and tell other people who I am and where I am from and have them make it and be part of it. It's a lot of fun, lot of fun. MH: What were some of your friends' reactions, you said before that you loved to show them and tell them all about it, what were their reactions when they did it? AW: Well they were frustrated. They really were. For some of them it was their first times making them, and they sat there and just wanted to throw the egg and just be done with it, which is very understandable. But they went through it and in the end when they saw their end result and they got their egg, I think one of my friends almost cried because he was so excited to make an Easter egg. Their reaction to their finished product and all the frustration they've gone through trying to finish the egg is just priceless, it really is. They love it, they really do and it's really cool to see how much they actually love it. MH: Were there any other traditions that you introduced them too and how did they react to those? AW: Ukrainian dancing. They've seen my Ukrainian dancing. I dance at the festival, so they've come and seen that and are just like "can you teach me some of the steps". They just want to know and be so involved. The language. I've taught them little words and they're like "Oh I know what that is". So I've taught them, you know, little things. Like paska, they have eaten paska. And hren which is like horseradish and beets put together and my grandma makes it-it's the best- we put it on paska and they eat it and they love it. They love Ukrainian food. We actually pierogies, homemade ones and they loved doing that. Halupki, pigs wrapped in a blanket, they loved doing that too. So food, a lot of food, dancing, language, and stuff like that we've introduced to them. KH: So you seem to talk a lot about Ukrainian foods-- AW: Uh, yes-- KH: -- do you have any favorites? AW: Oh boy! What is my favorite? Kielbasa and kraut. I love kielbasa and kraut. We get our kielbasa from New York City, called Baczynsky's, from this place called Baczynsky's. They have the best meat, it's so out of this world, it's amazing. All Ukrainians work there, so we go there and all talk in Ukrainian. It's really cool to have that, you know, little shop in the corner. It brings me back to wondering what my great grandparents would be like because that's kind of what they did. So, it is really cool, and they knew my great grandparents, I mean the owner, we knew them for many years. So, it is really cool to see. I love pierogies [pronounces in Ukrainian] with onions [more Ukrainian], it is so good. I like it all to be honest with you. Obviously, I was raised food is food, you have to eat, and you eat it all or else it is rude. You have to literally eat everything on your plate and everything at the table. [Laughter] So you would have third or fourth helpings because my grandmother just says, "you're not done, you're still hungry", she just puts it on your plate and says, "you're eating it". That's what you got to do. You got to do what you got to do, right? But food is huge, huge in the community. I love Ukrainian food, love it. It's better than, honestly, most Americanized food, because it's homemade, everything is homemade, nothing's store bought other than like Kraut and stuff like that. But my grandparents would- another story- my grandmother would come home; my great grandmother would be sitting there making pierogis all day long. She had to feed like nine boys. MH: Oh, my goodness! AW: Yeah! And they ate a lot. So she just sat there all day long just making pierogies all by herself. Homemade. Just a ton of them every day, that's all they'd eat. It's also just dough and potatoes. So, they'd home grow the potatoes and they had the dough and it was just easy. And they weren't rich, they were very poor so that was just the cheapest and easiest way for them to eat, so it's cool. And knowing how to make them is just really cool. MH: I find it interesting, we interviewed a gentleman of Russian descent and he said that food is not a big deal in Russia-- AW: Really? MH: --so do you know of any other difference between Ukraine and Russia? AW: I'm not an expert on Russian culture. I'm really not. I do know that we share a lot of like the same- pysanky, we both do I believe. And I believe we both make paska, I believe. And Ukrainian dance is another thing. Ukrainian dance is huge, like we both dance very similarly, knowing other Russian groups. We've danced with them, we dance at the same concerts as them and stuff like that. We connect, and we talk, but they do dance very similarly to us which is another thing that's big. That's pretty much it that I know. Our languages are pretty similar too, that's why it is becoming Ukrainian-Russian kind of thing in more Eastern Ukraine right now. But other than that I don't know. MH: But here in the community, you do mix? You do have some interaction with Russian groups? AW: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially in dancing mostly. We just go to the same festivals and the same kind of concerts and stuff like that. Someone will ask us to dance and sometimes they have Russian dancing, sometimes Ukrainian dancing, and you know, sitting back and comparing Russian to our kind of dance is kind of dance is very similar, it really is. We have a lot of the same steps, but it is also very different with costumes and stuff like that. We have different costumes, which is cool to see. Other than that and the community, that huge in comparison. MH: What is the attitude towards what's going on in Russia and Ukraine now? AW: It's hard, it really is. I mean, it's hard to see. We, as Ukrainians here in the community we understand that what's going on is not every Russians fault, it really isn't. So us reaching out to other Russians is not the problem. It's just when they make it prominent that they want our country is when we have the problem. You understand? So, we, here in the community, a lot of Russians here really don't want this turmoil that is going on in Ukraine. They really don't. And so we connect with them and we, we talk about it and they're very supportive of us and, you know, some of them understand and want Ukraine to be a part of their country which is also understandable because we became independent, we were part of Russia first, but as we became independent, we want to stay independent. So that's why I think, for me, being Ukrainian is so strong. Like I'm so proud to be Ukrainian, I'm proud to say that I am a Ukrainian, whether we become part of Russia or not, I will always say I'm Ukrainian. You know? So, I think sometimes it brings tension but most of the time we just talk about it and we just things out, which is important. It really is. KH: So did your strong- oh what's the word I'm looking for -- your strong inheritance of Ukrainian values, did that come with how you were raised? AW: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. If I was not raised how I was raised I'd never have these values really. I was raised Ukrainian, my first language is Ukrainian. So Ukraine was always part of my life. I went to Ukrainian school, Ukrainian camp. So, it really was-- it really is a huge part of my life which is also why differentiates me from my American friends because it is just so-- it just consumes my whole life. It really does, and I am so proud, so proud to be Ukrainian. I mean, I don't know if this important but I've a tattoo of the Tryzub on my ribs to signify that I, no matter-- who try to take my heritage away from me, no matter who try to take my country away from me, I always have that and it is always gonna be mine permanently. So, I am very outspoken to be Ukrainian even though people sometimes get annoyed with it. I understand but like in fourth grade I was in the paper for being such a strong heritage from the beginning. It was just so strong. KH: Do you plan to stay in the Binghamton community here? AW: That's a good question. [Laughter] I would- I understand why I would like to because I have such a community here being Ukrainian and having the strong community I do here, but wanting to become a lawyer and what not, it's kind of more maybe I might travel. I do know many other Ukrainian communities, like Washington D.C., I know a Ukrainian community down there that I'm close to, I have friends down there. Wherever I go I will find a Ukrainian community, I will find a Ukrainian church. I mean this will always be my church. I want to get married in this church, no matter where I live. This is just, my church. But, wherever I go, I will go and try to go to a Ukrainian community, and join another Ukrainian community because I know we are all open and we all just want to be family. So, I probably will move, even though I know it's going to be difficult, but I will always carry that with me. MH: Is your family and community supportive of the fact that you know you might have to leave? AW: Yeah. My family is pretty- they, they understand. They know that I want to go on and travel and live my life and, you know, become successful and become who I am. And they know that I will carry on my traditions wherever I go. I mean if I marry and American, sorry, you're going to become Ukrainian. Like that's just how it is. You know what I mean? They are very supportive, they really are. They know that I have valued this my whole life and I will always value this. So it's just how it's going to be. MH: I probably already know the answer to this, but do you plan on raising your children and your family similarly to how you were raised? AW: Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes. Definitely. They will be raised, I will try to teach them as much Ukrainian as I know. But tradition wise and church wise they will be raised Catholic, they will be raised with always going to church on holidays, always celebrating Christmas. Christmas I will always come back here, for Christmas no matter where I live, no matter how big my family is. My grandma will always have Christmas, as long as she's living, at her house. And if she dies and they stop tradition, I'll start it up in my house, you know? So, it will always carry with me, through my kids, through my spouse, whatever. I'm very headstrong on this. MH: You just talked a lot about religion, how has religion influenced you in, you know, morality or just making life choices? AW: Very greatly. I have been raised Catholic literally since birth. So I portray that even in my friends' life. I'm not the type to try and convert them, but I am the type that says "I have to go to church, I'm going to church". You know, I have to wake up on Sunday at 8 o'clock in the morning, I'm going to do it, I have to go. So church and religion is very important in my life. I'm the more tame of my friends. I do do some "crazy" [air quotes] stuff, but religion is always in the back of my mind, morality is always there with my friends. I even try and like, not convert them, but try and teach them some ways. My friends have come to church with me and I've, you know, introduced them to my heritage and my religion and who I am. And it's part of who I am, I'm not going to hide it from the world, you know what I mean? So religion is a huge part of my life as well. MH: So how does Russian Orthodox differ from--? AW: Ukrainian Catholic? MH: Yeah. AW: Russian Orthodox Church, they have different, like, ways to baptize, different ways to do other things. They're kind of the same thing but they just do things differently than we do. So in desperation if we can't find a Ukrainian Catholic church if we go out of town we go to a Russian Orthodox because they're pretty much the same thing, they just do things differently. So it's comparable but it also has some differences to it. MH: It sounds like the communities is accepting of them even though you're different. So, there isn't any sort of [motions with hands to suggest conflict]--? AW: No, no, no. Not that I know of at least. I don't know. Not that I know of. We, as I said, we go to Russian Orthodox when we're out of town and at the beach or something like that. We still go to church on vacations, that's another thing, when we're out of town. So, yeah. KH: So what's your favorite part of the Ukrainian Community in Binghamton? AW: Oh, how big it actually is. Meeting other Ukrainians that are a part of the community that I didn't even know about. You know, I mean, I have a pretty big family here and I have pretty big connections, like outwards, even in Binghamton that don't go to this church and what not. But knowing other people that are a part of the community that I didn't know of beforehand is really cool. It's really cool to meet other people and bring them in and stuff like that. MH: You said you knew of a Ukrainian community in Washington D.C., how did you meet them? AW: SUM, up in my Ukrainian camp, literally, all across the country they come and you know it's cool to see other people from like, California, even Texas, I don't know- crazy. Philadelphia- huge, huge, Ukrainian community in Philadelphia. Washington D.C. I was in a debutant, as well. It's part of the tradition. And they had one down in D.C. and I know a lot of friends, my friends, who go down to D.C. and go to that debutant too, which is a very Ukrainian tradition. So that's how I know other Ukrainian communities and they're all over the world. MH: And how does Binghamton differ from these other communities or does it? AW: We--sometimes they go to other churches and we celebrate other religions and stuff like that but other than that we're really quite similar and that's why I've made so many friends because we have so many similarities. One of my kind of cousins, she's married, well not married, she's adopted into the family, from Ukraine actually. There's two of them, brother and sister, they are not brother and sister by blood, but by adoption and their story is just- man what they went through to come over here. Do you want me to tell you a little bit about it? MH: If you're comfortable. AW: Yeah, that's fine. My- I consider them my family- my cousins. They're very close to me, I consider them my siblings, you know, my sister and my brother. Their names are Tereza and Mykola. Tereza was very young when she was adopted, I believe she was three? Two or three? But Mykola was more six? Seven? Eight? Something around there. So he remembers a lot more. When they, when my cousins went over there to adopt them, they saw that he had scratches, he had bruises, he was beaten. They were both beaten over there in the adoption homes. So they saw both of them, and they saw them just curled up together. They were actually together, they meet each other and they said we just can't separate them. How can we separate them? We are taking them both, because they only wanted one. So they said how we can separate these two kids who connected a bond trying to protect each other. He did everything for her. She was behind him, he was in front and they were just cuddling. They were just holding on to each other, basically for dear life, and he had just so many bruises and so many- you know they were verbally, verbally- it was ridiculous what they would say to them. So they adopted them and they came over here, and Mykola, he does have a lot of problems now because he does remember a lot of it and he used to have nightmares and he's on a lot of medications and stuff like that, but he has actually become a personal trainer. He's very successful. She is going off to become a doctor. So they're very successful. They're normal, very normal. He's the one who more has problems, per se. He's had a lot of, a lot of life issues, but they've solved it and you know, they just have to go with it. You can't- you just have to- you know, you can't push them away. They both are very close to me, they're also from SUM, I know them from. They're from Yonkers. Yonkers is where their SUM group meets. But they're from Port River. So they live far away, but we still keep in contact. They are both amazing, amazing people. What they came from, how they, I mean, my cousins they really are amazing for saving them and taking them both in and with all the hardship they knew that was coming with both of them is amazing. They, they're just, it's incredible, it really is. MH: Wow! That's amazing. AW: Like the stories you hear of, you know, of terrible adoption horror stories. It really is true and you know, they're living proof of it but they're so successful. They're going off and I mean he's had problems his whole life, but look at him, he's a personal trainer. I'm so happy for them. They're very Ukrainian as well, both of them are like me. They're very outspoken about it, very open people, which is amazing too because you'd think they'd be closed off from the world, they're not. They're very open, very--want to bring everyone in and just talk to them about it, you know what I mean? So, which is amazing for them and it's- I don't- I don't even know half the stuff they both went through over there, but to see them now is just truly, truly amazing. MH: So even though they had, you know, such a hard experience there, they're still proud to be Ukrainian? AW: Oh yeah. MH: Do you think that comes more from your family and you know, how-- AW: How they were raised? --They were raised? Yeah, definitely. I mean, they understood just because they were in a bad situation and a bad home, I mean adoption companies and adoption homes over there and you know, foster homes over there are very different from them over here, even to this day. They're very poor countries so they, they really don't have a lot. So, but, they just were in bad home. I mean even over here in America that happens, they're just in a bad home and there was a lot more bad homes back then when they were first born then there are now in Ukraine, but they- amazing that they were saved and they're over here now and they, they understand the difference of a bad home and Ukraine. They don't- they don't connect the two. So they, which is awesome because that means they can celebrate that and I wouldn't be as close, I don't think that I could be as close to them, you know? They'd be more cut off, just more conservative about their life, but they're very very proud to be Ukrainian, just as I am. MH: When your cousins were looking to adopt, did they specifically choose Ukrainian because of their own history? AW: Yes. Yes. And they understood what was going on in Ukraine with adoption companies over there. So they understood what, um, they could possibly go through, adopting from Ukraine back then. But they, they did it and I'm so happy they did and they're happy they did. They are the two-honestly it's crazy- they look like their parents. It's so weird. They all look together and it's like "are you sure you're not born here, like are you sure you're not born from them?" But they're not and they look like each other, even though they're not. So how they grew up together, I think it was just a match made in heaven to be honest with you. It was perfect. Yeah. MH: Wow, that's amazing. AW: It is amazing, it's really cool. MH: Going back to the Ukrainian communities around the country, and you said you could go to D.C., do you think most communities would be open-- AW: Yeah. MH: Are they all very open? AW: I believe so, I can't tell you one hundred percent because I'm not- I don't- I've gone to other communities but I've never really associated that much into the communities. But if I went to other Ukrainian communities across the country I'd probably know someone, so I'd probably be brought in very quickly. But other than that they're very open, just like us, they're very open to everyone and even in SUM sometimes we have Americans that are there that just want to know the culture, you know? Just want to get involved and we accept them, they're there and we just deal with it, you know what I mean? It's cool. It's cool. KH: So going back to your cousins, what part of Ukraine did they live in before they were adopted? Or do you not know? AW: More middle. Middle East. From there, I believe. MH: Do you know how location in Ukrainian influences cultural identity? AW: Oh yes. Eastern Ukraine is more Russianized. Western Ukraine is more Polandized and then the middle of Ukraine is kind of both. So, since Russia is, you know, such a big influence, that's where Russianized Ukrainian comes from. Since Poland is kind of an influence where a lot of people fled from Ukraine to Poland, there, Polish is also Ukraine, Polish-Ukraine is also a thing too. And middle Ukraine is kind of both. It's more Eastern, more Russianized, that I know of. But, Ukrainian, the old old regime Ukrainian language still is huge in Ukraine. It's just not- it's just kind of going away since everything's becoming new with, you know, bringing up with Russia and Poland and stuff like that. So, that's pretty much the differences of how Ukraine can be and that's why it's hard to understand other people because sometimes they're speaking Polish-Ukrainian, sometimes they're speaking Russian-Ukrainian. You don't know, so that's pretty much the difference. MH: What is- where does the majority of the community members here in Binghamton hail from, Western or Eastern? AW: Western. Yes, Western. MH: So, what sort of practices distinguish them from Eastern? AW: It's not really practices, it's just the language. So they language is really what differences everyone from where they come from. I mean, like we said before hutsul, pysanky Ukrainian eggs, even there's hutsul dances, there's a lot of very- sickle dance is more from Western Ukraine, hutsul dance is more from Eastern. So there's different kinds of dances, songs, writings and stories from different parts of the country, kind of like our country, you know very- it's different, you know, wherever you go. So I think that's what--yeah. MH: Do you know when this community was sort of established, around what period and what brought them to Binghamton? AW: Oh boy, it was early nineteen hundreds. And they came to Binghamton--I think because so many people from Ukrainian descent were here so, um, they just kind of saw the potential and just made the community and built the church, and the church was in a different part of Johnson City, I believe. I forget what the old church is, but there was an old church that was made first and that's what-it was kind of- it was small. So they decided we needed a bigger church. We need- we have more people coming in, coming from Ukraine and more immigrants and stuff like that, so we built this church and that was a little later on, I think it was 40 years after the first church was built, I believe so, don't quote me on that, I'm not sure. But then we built the new church and that's when all these people who are now American born, they're bigger families and obviously my grandparents because they had a farm, they had a huge family and then other people in this church also had nine, ten kids, so that's why we built this church. MH: What sort of differences do you see between the older generation here and the younger, Americanized, American-born kids? AW: Obviously because we were born with such technology and such knowledge and what we were open too and what they weren't. They weren't born with all of the technology we have so that's a huge part, I mean we're all on our phones and they're like "why are you always on your phone?" you know. Kind of the normal older people kind of questions and stuff like that, but how they- how they tell their stories is different than us. I mean, they have such heart into how they talk even, they have such pain too and how they talk about certain things and sometimes you shut up and just listen, you know? They definitely--just how the media has been brought up, we brought up around the media, how they're brought up around the media too, which is a huge impact in how we are both raised and how we both communicate to each other because we were brought up with the openness of Google, you know, the news and whatnot like that, and they had no idea half the time. I mean my grandparents didn't have a TV, they had a radio. So that was it, that's all they listened to. So that's just the technology and media difference really is what is kind of hard about communicating with them but they're pretty- they understand and work with it, so it's becoming easier to be honest. MH: Is there anything you could learn from them? Or what you'd be interested in learning? AW: Oh I have learned a lot from my grandmother. She is an amazing amazing woman and I learned how to cook from her, I've learned how to write in Ukrainian from her, how to speak. I mean she was my babysitter so she's the one who really put all her traditions and all her knowledge into my brother and I. I have a little brothers turning sixteen and we both were raised Ukrainian, raised one hundred percent by mostly, kind of her. My parents both were at work so she had us all day long, so she kind of almost raised us in a sense. So her impact on how to cook, clean, how to act and stuff like that really is a big- what has made us who we are today. Another thing about Ukrainian is-it's not sexist but- the women stayed home and they cleaned and they cooked and they took care of the kids because that's what they had to do. The men went out and worked and were farmers and stuff like that, that's how she was raised. So that- she tried to put that in my brother and I's kind of brain, but not in going off to college. Going off to college was for- she wanted all of us to go to college. She wanted her kids to go to college that was her biggest thing, was just go to college, I don't care what you go for just do it. And so in that sense the women got to kind of do their own thing and become their own person, but it's still the expectation that they're going to stay home and cook and clean all that kind of stuff after their job and stuff like that. I am more of the person of I'm not going to stay home cook and clean. I'm going to obviously become a lawyer. So I'm going to have a lot of late nights and you know studying and stuff like that so I am more- I do understand her ways and I respect her ways, which I actually do take into some consideration in my life. When I have kids I want to stay home with them their first couple of years until they go to school and then obviously put them in daycare or whatever I need to do, or until whenever I come home or whatever, and even if I don't have to work and I marry someone "rich" [air quotes] then I'll stay home with the kids, you know? So--having her opinion in that way kind of, I respect it a lot and I take it in my life, you know, it's good to be around your kids and I understand it but also at the same time I want to become my own person and I want to become independent and successful first. So yeah. MH: Is this sort of the typical thinking still among the Ukrainian community here? AW: Yes. The older community, yes. It's how they were raised and that's how they think everyone else should be raised. And it's difficult for them to see all these, like, teen pregnancies and see all these young couples getting married. I mean, she was young, but like, getting married for no reason and getting just- kind of- throwing their life away kind of thing. It's hard for them to see and my grandma sometimes doesn't understand it as much, but she tries to- that's why I think she tries to so much teach us how to- how it should be and stuff like that. But I- I am my own person and I understand both ways and so I think that's why the community is so- that's how the older community is. MH: You mentioned you have a brother. Is he as passionate about Ukraine as you are? AW: Not as much to be honest with you. Really to be honest, he's really not as passionate. He's passionate though he just doesn't speak it as much, but he does understand it. He does, I mean, he portrays to his friends. His friends come and make pysanky too. So he, I mean it's not like he holds it off from the world but he's definitely open about it and he wants to tell people about it, he's just not as--into it as I am. So, I'm the one who's just Ukrainian all the way. He the one who "if I marry someone English, Ukrainian, whatever I'll decide that later on", you know that kind of thing. Yeah he'll bring them too obviously to Ukrainian traditions and stuff like that but he's more of an "I'll just go with the flow whatever, I mean, they're English, I'm Ukrainian, okay." That kind of thing. I'm more, "yeah you're going to be Ukrainian and we're raising my kids Ukrainian whatever". He's more just laid back about it. MH: I just wanted to get this straight for the record, so you, your first language was Ukrainian? AW: Yes. MH: And is it still spoken in your house? AW: Yes. MH: Can you read it and write it? AW: I can speak it, I can read somewhat, I can write somewhat. I can definitely write my name, I can write the date and months and stuff like that. I'm not fluent in reading, writing, or speaking it. I used to be, obviously. My first language was Ukrainian, I lost it after going to school. My counselor told my parents "You need to teach them English, not Ukrainian, because they're struggling". I wish my counselor didn't do that, because I would love to be more fluent in it, I really would. I've always thought about going in college and taking a course and becoming more fluent or something like that because it's really important to me. But yeah, speaking, reading, writing, is kind of difficult, but I make do and I can communicate with other Ukrainians, yeah. MH: Was is hard for you when you were small, having to learn English or, you know, was there a language barrier between you and the other kids? AW: I really don't remember, but I do know that it was, I believe it was difficult. There was a little bit of a language barrier, I was kind of slow learning English. English was always my hard- back in elementary school it was always hard for me. And even in middle school it was difficult for me. English was my worst subject. So learning English was always- I never understood- I never really understood it. Now I do, obviously. But I never really understood how the language works and stuff like that back then. So teachers would be frustrated with me, they'd say "oh you're never going to get very far with English" or "you're not going to do very good", "your essays are always going to be horrible" and stuff like that. So I mean they worked with it, but they became frustrated with me because I just didn't understand it and they didn't know why. I said "my language is Ukrainian" like "this is where I come from", like English is second to me so learning all the -oh man it was so difficult learning all the little words and what they mean and different-- MH: -- prepositions -- AW: Yes, oh my gosh, don't even get me started. It's still confusing to me, so it's- it was difficult, it was, but I made do and I mean obviously I wish Ukrainian was more promoted in my house. I mean my dad didn't speak Ukrainian, he kind of does now, he knows somewhat but he really didn't speak it so that was another thing. My mom, my grandma was really the one to enforce it. I wish they pushed it more because I would have made do but it's okay, it worked out, obviously it worked out fine. MH: You mentioned you went to Ukrainian school? AW: Uh-huh. MH: Can you explain what that was? AW: Yeah it was here, through my church-- MH: OK, so like a Sunday school? AW: Yeah, kind of like that, yeah- it was on Saturdays and it was in the morning and it was also corresponding with SUM [also known as CYM] and for SUM we have to do- there was different camps throughout the summer, so one week was dance camp, one week was like history camp. I mostly went to the all-around camp where we did kind of everything. So we had to recite poems and stuff like that in Ukrainian, so that was part of Ukrainian school was preparing ourselves for something called "zlet" up there, which is something kind of like- it was Memorial Day weekend so we all did like sports and we all recited poems and did all these things and we got points and we got medals at the end and trophies too, that was also really fun, being brought up like that. But speaking it was part of that, so I guess that Ukrainian school was preparing for SUM, which is Ukrainian camp, and speaking it. So that was kind of- it was all in one. MH: Where was SUM located? AW: Ellenville, New York. Which is about two hours away from here, so not that far away. It's a lot of fun. I'm going there obviously Memorial Day weekend. I don't participate anymore because I'm too old, but I just go to see all my friends and we all just hang out and just have the weekend there, we just go to vatra, which are bonfires, and we go to the dances and it's just a lot of fun, we just chill and hang out. Now it's cool because I don't have to do anything. I'd don't have to you know, learn all these poems, which was so stressful back then, but it was worth it, it was a lot of fun. I mean, it helped make me who I am today, going to Ukraine camp and having that diverse friend connection is really cool. Yeah. MH: Just going back to your father's family, I find this so interesting. We've talked about your mother's family and, you know, her Ukrainian heritage, but do you know anything about your Father's English? AW: He's American-born, his whole family was born here. He, I believe he said something about being of Indian descent, I'm not sure, one time he said that it might be possible. They- we're not as close to them. He really made family here, so. I mean we celebrate birthdays and stuff like that with them, I mean when my parents were married they celebrated a lot more with us, like Thanksgiving we celebrated with them, it was a big family thing. And, you know, first holy communions or like birthdays, they'd come, still, to my birthday parties, or whatever. Birthday parties are another huge thing. We have a party for every birthday, it's ridiculous. But, they--they're Christian so they still go to church and stuff like that so we have that kind of connection and that kind of, we can compare like that, but other than that we don't really see them as much so they just kind of do their own thing, we just kind of do our own thing. I mean, bringing them into the family through my mom and them getting married, they obviously took part of some of the Ukrainian traditions because obviously we are very contagious, [laughter] so we call on other people and they take part in it, and they miss it, they really do. But it was cool seeing how they came from just being English and not knowing any other culture and coming and marrying into this family and you know they even took some Ukrainian with them. They have pysanky around their house and things like that. My brother, not my brother, my father has a brother and a sister, and they're closer to the sister than he is to his brother and his sister has Ukrainian pysanky and embroideries from my mom's wedding and stuff like that that they have taken with them and display in their house, which is cool because we are not very close to them, but it's cool. MH: So how does it feel seeing, I like the word you used, "contagious", you know, seeing your Ukrainian history spread? And are you excited about that? AW: Oh yeah, it gets me so excited. I love talking about how I'm Ukrainian and I just like to portray onto others who I am and where I come from and how Ukraine is. I mean, you hear a little about Ukraine on the news, about being Russia trying to take over or whatever, I mean, some people have this certain opinion that- we are a poor country. I mean we're a pretty big country, but our population is pretty small. So, I like to introduce to other people, "Hey, I'm Ukrainian, you want to learn more?", "Obviously, yeah let's go", you know what I mean? So, I love to talk about, like, who I am and where I come from and really introduce the Ukrainian tradition to others because I think it's important. I want to hear about other people too. I love to hear about who other people have become and what other cultures are compared to mine, like Polish, they're different but they're similar. It's really cool to compare and meet other people and stuff like that. So I do the same and I want to know other people's, bring it on, like I want to compare I want to switch notes and stuff like that, but I definitely- it's so much fun talking about my heritage to others because we're so different. We really are, but we are also so much the same. It's cool. It's a lot of fun. MH: Just to conclude our interview, we have a few sort of general questions. AW: Yeah. MH: What is your favorite part about being Ukrainian? AW: My favorite part? Boy, that's a good question. I love talking about Ukrainian heritage and I love celebrating it. I love being with family and just having all of the traditions and really still practicing them. Because I know a lot of other people don't really practice their traditions. We practice every single one. We love our traditions. So traditions basically is my favorite part of being Ukrainian and celebrating them with family. MH: Do you have a favorite tradition? AW: Christmas. MH: Christmas? AW: Christmas. Because we just bring every family member from all across the country, even- we have family in Australia now, they come back-- MH: Wow! AW: Yeah! So it's really cool. I remember when she went away she spoke English and she had this thick New York accent, she went over there now she has an Australian accent. I'm like "wait, what's this, hold on, backup, reverse, wait, what?" [Laughter] So it's really cool to have them come over here, and she's actually getting married in June? July? Which is really exciting because we're going to have people from Canada, Australia, and America-- MH: Oh my gosh! AW: So yeah, it's going to be a big wedding. Seven hundred people. Crazy. Yeah, weddings are another thing that's a lot- Actually weddings is another thing that I love about being Ukrainian because the tradition of a wedding is totally different. The ceremony is about an hour and a half, two hours to get married, and then we basically party all night and party all day. So before, let me explain the wedding, so before you go to the mother's house, the bride's mother's house and you get the blessing of the godparents and they put a rushnyk, which is an embroidered cloth over your head and they pray with you and they wish you the best. And the groom is- well I don't know where the groom is honestly. But this is all at the bride's parent's house, bride's mother's house, and then they go to the church and they get married. The service is so beautiful. It's so long but so worth it, so beautiful. And they- after they get married we go to the reception and the reception lasts until we are done dancing to be honest and dancing is just all night long and then the next day we go to the parents' house and we have another party to celebrate their marriage and we just- we just chill and take the day to actually kind of regroup each other but we invite the whole family, so it's another hundred, hundred-fifty people over at the house. Every holiday, there is at least a hundred people that we celebrate with. So a wedding is another thing that I love. I love going to Ukrainian weddings because it's just so different than, like, an American wedding. You get married in like ten minutes and then you say your vows in like ten minutes and you're married and you go to the reception, you know what I mean? It is totally- there is so much more. And the reception, we do dances, certain dances with the mother and stuff like Ukrainianized dances and stuff like that that we partake in the wedding as well. Which is cool to introduce to Americans, they've never been to a Ukrainian wedding, they don't know what they're in for. I'm telling them, "You don't know what you're in for if you go to a Ukrainian wedding because there's a lot more to it than you think". So it's really cool, yeah. MH: You mentioned you now have family in, or at weddings you'll have Ukrainians from Australia, Canada and the U.S., do you know how their communities differ from communities in the U.S.? AW: Canada, I know more about in Canada than I do about Australia. Australia, she moved there like five, six years ago so I've never been there. Obviously I'd love to go there, and I will go there, because that's awesome. But I think the communities are pretty much the same in Canada and they are here, I think they do a little different tradition wise, different like, things, and stuff like that. It depends on their religion as well, that's another huge part of it. But, yeah they definitely- it's cool to see how others, like, their weddings might be a little different, so when they come to our wedding we're going to see how they react to certain things with the reception and stuff like that, but I think it's pretty much the same and stuff. MH: What's one thing you want everyone to know about Ukraine and being Ukrainian? AW: Oh, how, how spiritual we are. How open we are. How generous and kind and sweet we are. I want people to know that we are open to everyone and we just want to tell you about our culture. We just want everyone to know that we're Ukrainian and we're proud of it and we're not stubborn and hard and closed off as some people might think Ukrainians are. I just want people to know that we are very open and we want- we just want to tell you about our culture and just, open it up and have you come in and celebrate with us, as well as us celebrating with you. MH: Okay, is there anything else you'd like to add or want us to know? AW: I think that pretty much covered everything that I at least know as being Ukrainian. Other than food, lot of food, dancing, the language-- Obviously there are so many other stories that are out there of Ukrainians and stuff like that. Definitely being American-born but being raised Ukrainian has been a blessing and really, I'm so proud to be Ukrainian even though I am American. It's just amazing. It's an amazing feeling to have this background, it really is. MH: Do you identify more with Ukrainian or American? AW: Hmm. I- depends on what--certain things. I identify with being more Ukrainian, but then again I am very proud to be an American. I really am. I hold proud. I, honestly, I might become a politician one day, you never know, maybe President, you never know. Hey, why not? You go big or go home right? [Laughter] So, but being Ukrainian is just so strong for me even though I do love being an American. I really do. I celebrate everything, Fourth of July, and everything like that. I love it. It's an amazing feeling as well to have both cultures and really celebrate both. I mean it becomes extremely busy, but it's okay and it's a lot of fun having both backgrounds. MH: Kevin do you have any other questions? KH: Nope. MH: I think that just about covers it. Thank you so much. AW: Thank you. MH: That was amazing. AW: Good. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Adrianna Watson Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Watson, Adrianna ; Hage, McKenna ; Hiller, Kevin Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Adrianna Watson is a college student majoring in Law and is a second generation Ukrainian immigrant who was born in Johnson City. She lives in the Southern Tier of New York with her large, extended family. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Adrianna Watson.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-03 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 71:36 Subject The topic of the resource Watson, Adrianna. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Ukrainian folk dancing; Ukrainian cooking; Summer camps; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/33fb307a69f2ffdbe8a82db4dbe70f65.m4a c398f41ccb42a7a33adf0888faffb2cf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Allan Gendelman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sergey Gendelman Biographical Text Sergey Gendelman is a first generation immigrant in America. His roots are in Moscow, Russia. He received a degree in electronic engineering. He went on to further his education in the Soviet Union as a programmer. He immigrated to New York City in 1993 and he worked a few odd jobs until becoming a programmer once again. He continues to live in New York City area with his family. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 61:26 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Gendelman, Sergey Peter.--Interviews; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Soviet Union—History; <span>Communism and culture--Soviet Union;&nbsp;</span>Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; City and town life--New York (State)--New York Interview Format Video or Audio audio OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=SergeyGendelman.xml Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Russians; Immigrants; Soviet Union Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Ukrainian Oral History Project</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Sergey Gendelman</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Allan Gendelman</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Transcriber: Allan Gendelman</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:41am</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview Setting: 2636 East 23rd Apt. #2 Brooklyn, NY 11235</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">(Start of Interview)</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Sergey Gendelman: I was born in 1959 in Moscow in Soviet Union.</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Allan Gendelman: And uhh, (is it, is it) how was your childhood? Happy memories? Good memories? Or more of a negative?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: My childhood, it's mostly happy. Probably everybody's childhood—when you are a kid, it's, everything is good. You have parents, you have someplace to live, you have food. So you are happy. You have friends to play with. So, you are happy.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So, tell me a little bit more about that. Where exactly did you live? Which neighborhood did you live in?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Okay, it was Moscow. It's the capital of the Soviet Union. It was not downtown, but it's some sleepy area of Moscow.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So, pretty quiet?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, pretty quiet. It used to be pretty safe. So, we could walk around and play around by ourselves, without parents. Just with friends. We have yards around our houses. I mean, not houses, buildings. Most of us have buildings. So, we have yards. And we have place to play. So that's how we spent our childhood.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was more of an urban setting, right? More of a city, not a village, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, it's a real city. Moscow is a huge city. It's just one of the sleepy areas of Moscow.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Sort of how Brooklyn is to Manhattan? We all live in New York, but Brooklyn is a little bit quieter.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, kind of.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So, tell me about the building you grew up in. How was that? Describe it to me physically. How big was it? How many floors? What did it look like?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Okay, it was a five story brick building. No elevators. We lived on the third floor. We had two rooms. When we moved in—we got lucky, we moved in a separate apartment, because most of the people lived a few families together in the same apartment, just one room, and shared a kitchen, and bathroom, and other common places. So we got lucky when I was born, my family got a new apartment. It was two rooms, and it was six of us living in two rooms.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So are you saying that at some point you did live in a communal area where you had to share the kitchen and other amenities?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Actually for myself, personally, I had never lived with other people in the same apartment. So, as I said, I got lucky. We got, we got a new apartment when I was born. It was too many people for our old apartment. It’s, so—and six people in two rooms. I don't know how—by Americans’ measure, it’s probably still too much.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It’s actually interesting that you said that. So you didn’t grow up in a communal setting, and you’re saying that’s how people usually lived?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, I would say 50 to 60% of the people live together, a few families to the same apartment.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So would you say you living in an apartment that you didn't have to share with other families in a non-communal setting—do you think that had any impact on you, growing up? Because I would think that if everyone else is growing up with other families, maybe the way they—not just the way they lived, but the way they grew up, the principles they grew up with could be different.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It’s difficult to say, because I didn’t have, actually, other way to live, so— So it's the only way I— I don't know what to say. I never lived in other conditions, so it’s what it is.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: That’s true. Well, do you think you grew up a little bit differently than the people around you? The kids around you?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I would say that my condition was a little bit better than some of my friends. I visit them, my friends, and we play together, and I saw how they lived. My condition, it was better. Yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Not just conditions, really. What I'm really asking is—so, you're my father, I've obviously known you growing up, and it seems apparent that—your friends and a lot of your family stayed in the Soviet Union and Russia, and you moved. And from what I know, this is something you always wanted to do growing up.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, it’s— At my childhood, when I was a teenager, I was thinking I am living in the best country in the world. So, I didn't have any problems when I was a teenager. It happened later, when I understand what's going around me in other countries. And it's—most of what we know is just a lie, and it's not true, and I'm pushed to do what I don't want to do. And my understanding, it happened, probably, when I was about 15, 16, when I got more information outside. It was difficult to get this information back then. I was trying to listen to some foreign radio. It was not allowed. First I started listening because of music—foreign music—I loved it and I love it now as well. And also I listened to the news and I started thinking, “Most of what our government said to us, it's not true.” It's how it started, my different view on my country. But when I was a child, I was thinking, “I'm living in the best country in the world.” It was my belief.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You said you were pushed to do something you didn't want to do. What do you mean by that?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Uhh, okay. When you are in school, you have to be in Pioneer Organization. It's like Young Communist [League], you have to do certain things—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Like Boy Scouts?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, like Boy Scouts. But it's not your choice. You have to do it. Otherwise you will be like—umm, umm.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: A traitor?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, a traitor. So it's going to be much more difficult for you to be in school, to be in a community. Like all people. And you will not have any future, if you do not follow what everyone else is following.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Your career choice, your school choice, the profession you chose to pursue in the Soviet Union: was that largely your choice, or do you feel like you were pushed to do that?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, it was my choice, but it was a choice with a lot of limitation for some reason. First limitation because I am a Jew. And not all colleges accepted Jew people. And if they accept, it was just for a limited percentage, very very limited percentage. So—and you have to be a Young Communist to have more possibility to get into college. So it was my choice, but it was limited choice.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Why don't you tell me about what you did pursue? What did you actually study and what did you end up working as?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I graduated as an engineer. Electronic engineer. So what I studied was a lot of math, a lot of physics. Automatization systems. What else—and of course I have to learn some Communist Party history, and that was probably the most important subject in college. There's a special test for that, and if you fail it, you will not get a diploma of engineer.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And what did you go on to become? What was your job?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: My first job, I was a construction engineer, so I developed some schematics for automatization system for agriculture. So I was obligated to work three years for some company I was sent to work. So there were some choices, but not many, and I had to work for at least for three years. After three years, I had a choice to quit and find a new job. So I quit, and moved to a new job in the field.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What was that field?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was—I just—I was, special tools for auto manufacturing. It was electronic devices that I had to adjust. It was like mini computers so it was more interesting for me. So it's like work in field. I was not sitting in one place, but I was moving to different companies to help them to adjust the tools.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was that the last job you held in the Soviet Union, or were there more?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, I had then—when computers started to introduce in our environment, I started learning programming. It's how I started programming. So my last job was programmer, so it helped that when I moved to the United States I had some background to start with.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I want to come back to that, I want to ask you right now about your second job. You said you had to travel a lot for that job, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, I travelled in Soviet Union—cities, towns, different places, yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So outside of Russia, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Mmm…Outside of—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —the Russian Federation.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Outside of the Russian Federation, yeah. Yes.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was that common? Were people allowed to do that, or was that a special privilege that you got?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, you could travel anyplace in the Soviet Union. What wasn't allowed was to travel outside of the Soviet Union. It was a real privilege, so to leave the country for travel, for business, for whatever it is, so it’s— So you couldn't just go wherever you want to go outside the Soviet Union. You had to get an out visa, not a visa to get in the country, but a visa to get out of the Soviet Union. And it was really difficult. Very limited people could do it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Would you say it was feasible—would you say it was possible for people to travel the way you traveled for your work? Or were they too impoverished to do that?&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Uhh—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Because—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, people travel, but what we earned, it was, it wasn’t big money. It’s money to feed yourself and your family, and it’s what you mostly spend your money for. I said I lived in Moscow in Soviet Union, and Moscow is absolutely different than other Soviet Union territories, because it was difficult in Moscow to buy some foods, but there still—there are foods in stores in Moscow. But from other regions, people come to Moscow to buy something: clothes, food, something. It was much much more difficult to buy something outside of Moscow. I was lucky, again, to be living in Moscow, not other regions of Soviet Union. I got to see how other people lived. Sometimes people were happy when I could come and bring some food with me and share it with people. They were very happy.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Tell me more about that. Did you learn anything while you travelled and you got to see how other people lived? Did that impact you in any other way?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, I saw people live much, much worse than people in Moscow and it—sometimes it was real poverty. Because in Moscow, I didn't see actual poverty. Everything was—most of, 90% of the people was—equally, I would say, not poor, but they couldn't afford any car, they couldn't buy any apartment, any—that was just, government could just give it to people, and if you don't have a good apartment or any… Everyone had an apartment. It wasn't, maybe, good, it was maybe overcrowded, and people didn't have money to buy something new; and a car was…a real, real luxury, to use a car. But you had public transportation, it was pretty much good, and I didn’t think—I never thought that I’d need a car, because it was beyond my possibilities, beyond my actual wishes. It’s not—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You're saying it was too luxurious?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, yeah. It was too luxurious. Only people who were in crime could buy a car. Or some famous people—academics, famous artists, some—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You're saying criminals could buy cars.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And criminals, yeah. Criminals could always buy cars, yeah. Because they steal something from other people. Or people actually who work for, actually, for government, or for Communist Party. They had more possibilities to buy a car.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What did you—so you’re saying you saw a lot of poverty when you left Moscow. Do you have any particular memories of your travels, any particular story you want to tell? Do you remember what kind of foods you ate, something like that? Something unique that you encountered that you didn't before?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Some trips were very good. I would say Georgia, I remember, it was a very nice country, very nice people, very kind. And so, food was interesting, it was different. It was a nice experience to go to Tbilisi, it was the capital of Georgia. But some region was very poor and I couldn't buy anything in stores and I had to use some cafeteria in places I worked for, and it’s, it was, I couldn't eat what they fed me. So I was trying to do my job, instead of a week, let’s say for two days, and just leave, because it was not a pleasure to stay there, so I worked fifteen hours a day, just to leave the place.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What did you eat in the cafeterias? Describe the food.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Oh, ok. I don't know. It was some cutlets. And okay, if you don't have bread to, to not taste of the—or smell whatever you're eating—I don't know what it was, but it was something not edible. And always, when I went on a trip, I always had some food with me, so I could have my breakfast in the hotel room, so—and some late dinner in hotel again. So in some places, I just didn’t eat anything at all during the day—just worked for twelve, fifteen hours and ate just early morning using my own food I brought from Moscow, and late, late dinner. And just, my dream was just finish the job I had to do and just leave it, leave this town I stay in.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: How long did you do that job for? How long did that last for?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It's about six years, I’d say. Six or seven years. It was, it's not for the same company. I used to work for one company, for—then I moved to other company, this offers better conditions, but still the same kind of job. And then I move to some plant and I start actually to study programming, and that's how I start as a programmer. I start actually fixing computers first, learning the hardware part of the computers, and then study programming and converted to programmer.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What made you do that job for six years? It sounds like you weren’t happy doing it—what was the motivation? Did you not have the opportunity to find another source of employment, or did you just not think about moving?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, I didn’t say I wasn't happy about the job. I was happy about the job; I liked it. But I wasn’t happy in some places I visited to do my job, just because of conditions I lived in. But the job itself, I liked it, it was good.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Why don't you tell me about how you got started in programming? So you said you started studying hardware first, but then you moved on to learning programming?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, it was—I was working for some company to—adjusting their tools for, uh—tools with controllers. So it was an electronic job. And then the company start—they created a department of, a computer department—it just started in Soviet Union. So—and I was, at the beginning, I actually helped the company to choose computers, to buy computers, to set it up, and fix if any problem happened. And parallel, I learned how to program, and I went to college again to get some programmer diploma, but it’s at the same time I was working for the company. So, and that's how I started programming. When I come to America, actually it’s not the same kind of programming I did in the Soviet Union, but—and I also went to school to learn something new, and—but it was much, much easier for me to be in the field, because I already had some basic knowledge and knew how to program.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Do you remember exactly how you started programming? Did you just discover it? Did someone tell you about it? Do you remember the day you decided to become a programmer?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, it wasn't a day. It was, as I said, I just started to know something new, and it’s, I learned more and more and more, and I did some projects creating some software. And at the same time, I was responsible for supporting computer hardware, so I did both jobs, so that’s how my knowledge—that's how I gained more knowledge. So I create more—some, create more software.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was it someone in particular that opened you up to programming? No?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Not really, as I remember, no.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You were just interested in it?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was interesting. It was something new to learn, so I started learning.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You said you went to school, and you worked at the same time when you were learning programming. Was that challenging? Because I would imagine having a full time job and going to school is always challenging.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Oh, I don't remember if it was challenging; it was interesting. It was about thirty years ago, so I don't remember. It was interesting. When you are interested in something, it's much easier to be successful in it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So you said you came to America and you eventually became a programmer, and you said it was a lot easier for you to do that because you were in the Soviet Union and you already had some sort of training, some sort of education, some sort of experience in the field. Did you come to the United States and right away become a programmer?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It actually was my third job. I am not, um—when I was a student in United States, I did some jobs, you know, just temporary jobs, just to feed my family. And you just was born, and so—and so we didn't have much money, so I had to do some temporary job just for small money, but it was very helpful.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Tell me about those jobs. Tell me about those temporary jobs.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It's something, I distributed some advertising—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —flyers?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —Flyers, yeah. What else? I can't remember now. [Pause] Ok, it’s—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You don't recall?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don’t recall, it was— It wasn't the happiest days of my life.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, you didn’t like it, so you—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was difficult and it was, I mean, not what I would like to do. It’s—it wasn't the reason I came to America, to do this kind of job. But it was a good experience, to—and it's what I had to do for my family. So it’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s what happened. I knew immigration is—when I moved from Soviet Union to America, I knew it was difficult to absorb a new style of life and, uh, to start speaking in English, it was most difficult, probably. To understand what people are saying, to speak myself, to explain what I would like to other people. So it was difficult times. But I did not regret I did this move.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So you are saying the language barrier is what was the most difficult part—not understanding what people are saying.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Right.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was there anything else that was difficult? Was it culturally different? Were people different here than they were back where you were from, from the Soviet Union? Or are people just people everywhere?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Most of the people are people, as you said, everywhere. And I had my close relative here, my uncle, who helped me a lot with—he explained to me a lot of things, what’s going on around me. And so for all my questions I could call him and ask, “What does it mean? What should I do with it?” and how to behave. So I was open for new relationships, for new people, for everything new, so—so, I was open for it, so I accepted it as it is.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was there any cultural shock? Anything in particular that surprised you?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Usually when Soviet people come to America first, what they’re shocked about is when they go to stores and see how many foods in stores and how many clothes in store—it’s mostly what [made] people shocked. It didn’t shock me because I was prepared for this, because I had some information from people who lived here already, so—and I communicate with them before I left the Soviet Union—so I was prepared for that. It was interesting, but I wasn't shocked. What actually—I was not shocked, but very pleased with, is that people smile, on the streets, on transportation. Whatever you are going to, you see people smile to you. Not as in the Soviet Union. It's not in the behavior of Soviet people. Probably still they don't smile.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Smiling. That was big for you?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. Smiling was actually the most—most—[pause]</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —positive—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG: </b><span style="font-weight: 400;">&nbsp;—positive, yeah, impression that I got.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So was it your first time in America when you immigrated here? Did you immigrate straight here and this was the first time you’d ever been here, or had you been here previously?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, first I went here in 1990, just for travel. My uncle sent a special invitation to me, because otherwise I couldn't leave Soviet Union. It was already opened up by Gorbachev for people to go around the world, but it was still limited, so you had to get some special invitation from other country to be allowed to go. So my first experience, I went in 1990, I said. So I spent a month here in America, in New York. My cousin got me around to other countries—other cities—so I fell in love with America, so I decided, “so I am going to leave Soviet Union for United States.”</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Was it—that month you spent in America, was it like you expected it to be from the information that you got from the American radios in the Soviet Union, or were you surprised at the living conditions? Tell me. Tell me how it was for you.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Surprised? Actually, I already had information, so I wasn't surprised too much, but I loved New York itself, I mean, Manhattan, how it’s—I was happy to see it with my own eyes, not on television, or some other image, some other sources. But I was—maybe I was shocked when I saw, first time, Manhattan, so I was—felt in love. I came as a tourist, so it's different when you live in a country and when you just travel. You see a different side of life. Everything was good. People were nice to me. It was a pleasure. I knew if I am going to move in permanently here, it will not be so easy to be part of this country, these people. So I knew it was challenging, but I was ready for that, for these difficulties. When I moved in permanently, I was open for all difficulties I met.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Why do you say that you knew it was going to be challenging? What led you to believe it was going to be challenging?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Because my English was very, very, very limited, and I knew to do some job I had to speak fluently—I had to understand people, what they’re saying, what I’m supposed to do, as my responsibility of some job. So I knew it's always difficult, because when you live in one country and everything is familiar to you, and people speak the same language and you knew all habits, everything around, everything, how it works… New country, absolutely new country with different culture, different people, language and everything—it's always difficult. But it's a good experience. But I'm happy you don't have to get through it because you were born here. It's your country—and it's my country too, but it’s your country from the beginning, and you don't have to get used to it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What kind of other difficulties did you face when you came here? Was poverty an issue?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You mean in the United States?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: In the United States, yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Poverty…I mean, yeah. I had some money to pay for my rent and for food, but I learned how to do shopping so I knew where sales, I knew how to buy things so I could save a lot of money by doing it. I didn't have a lot of money to buy any extra, it was okay. I knew it was just temporary for some period of time. My goal is to find a job I would like and everything would be changed.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: When you came here, you grew up eating kotleta and borscht and all of that really Russian Soviet Union stuff. Is there anything that you came here and you were really—you really liked or you really didn't like, out of the foods?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Actually, I like to try new food. First when I saw sushi, I couldn’t try it because I'd never eaten raw fish before and it was really strange for me. But my friends showed me how to eat it, so I tried and I didn’t like it, first time. In some period of time I tried it again, and it was a little bit better. And now I love it. I miss it if I don't have it for a couple of weeks. So I miss it. So, I love to have—to go to different restaurants to try new foods, and to different country and different style food. So—I’m open for that, I like it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Did you buy any frozen food, anything in the supermarkets? I mean, if I lived in a country where I was really limited in the cuisine I had and the kind of food that I had, and I came to a country where there’s all these different foods, I think I would just buy everything. I would just want to try all this strange new food. Is there anything—did you do that? Or did you only try to buy food that you knew or were familiar with?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I buy mostly what I knew. I don't buy new food because I don't know how to cook it—maybe very rare, some… But, most of—to try new food, I just go to some specific restaurant: Turkish, Lebanon, or maybe Indian. So—and actually, with Indian food as well, when I first tried, first time trying Indian food, I couldn't eat it. It was very spicy, I couldn't eat it at all. But now, again, I get used to it, and time to time I like to have Indian food. But actually I'm still trying, as I start—when I came to this country and I tried to save money for shopping, I still do it. I try to save money and to buy most of the food on sale and save this money for, actually, what I really would like to do all my years when I was living in the Soviet Union, to travel to different countries. Because I was real, real, actually limited to see the world. Now I enjoy it, and so I’m trying to explore as many countries as I could.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, we just came back from Italy, so it’s interesting that you said that. We do travel a lot. Do you think that the way you’re living your life now—what you just described, saving every penny that you can so you can get the things that you want—do you think that's something uniquely Russian? Do you think that’s something you do because you were taught to do it? To save every penny? Because from my experiences here in the US, people aren't so conscious about their spending, what they spend their money on, and they don't wait for sales. If they want food, they just go buy it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don't know why I do it. Maybe it's in my nature to not overpay for something if I could actually save money. It's like for me, sometimes it's like sport, you know? If I see something I could buy for half of the price, it’s— So I'm looking for bargains. I prefer to visit two, three different supermarkets to buy food on sale and save money than just go in one place and buy whatever I see. I don't know. Maybe it's in my nature. Not because I’m from Soviet Union, because I know other Russian people, and they actually don't save money for food and buy whatever they want to.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I guess it depends from person to person.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, I think so.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So, you came here. You handed out flyers. You didn't live in the best conditions. What was the first apartment that you lived in? Or the first place that you lived in?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was an interesting experience. We just start looking, and first we stay with our relatives for a couple of weeks and start looking for apartments, and what we saw, it was killing us. It was dirty, it was with cockroaches and with—it was something with awful smell. Actually, it’s because we had little money to spend, we were looking for very, very cheap apartments, so— My wife was crying and she said, "Okay, I would like to go back. I don't want to live in those apartments." Because in Moscow, it was a small apartment, but it was clean—it belongs to us so we care about that and it was clean, and okay, it smelled good— Okay, but when we saw an apartment which was just renovated, and that it was clean and no smell, and so we loved—it was small, it just was studio with kitchen. So we loved it and we moved in—it was just two of us, it was more than enough for two of us. It was in the Bay Ridge area, a good safe area in 1993 when we moved to America. So that's how we started. But then, when you were born, we had to move to a new apartment, a little bit bigger. But I already worked at that time, so we could afford it. It wasn’t a good apartment. It was two bedrooms, a two bedroom apartment, but it was small and not as good. So in a few years, I keep working, and we moved again to a much better apartment, still in Bay Ridge.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And you liked that apartment?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, we liked that apartment. And the best part of that was the view. It was a view on Downtown and Midtown Manhattan, Statue of Liberty and Hudson River, and the view was just amazing. It was so I could look at it every day for a long time, and it always was different because of how the sun is—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —shining—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: —shining through, yeah, and nighttime, so it was very good. And I was—so enjoyed it, probably, until 9/11. Because when I saw everything that happened on 9/11, it actually really changed me. Because I had been working very, very close to the Twin buildings. I saw it just from a very, very close distance, how it happened, how the building collapsed, how the planes hit the buildings. It was a nightmare.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You worked close by there?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah. Not quite about a mile, I would say less than half a mile from the Twin buildings.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Would you say that changed your view of America in any way?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Not America itself, but something really changed. It was like, you know, you lived in some sunny conditions, and then clouds came. It's like everything is the same, but something is different, and you couldn't explain, actually, what’s changed, but it was.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Did it impact your view of how safe you felt in America? Did you feel safer before 9/11, or the same? Do you still feel safe? Do you feel safe?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Pretty much, I do feel safe, but before 9/11 I didn't think about safety, actually. The Bay Ridge area was very safe, and so we could walk around at midnight without, actually, to be afraid of people around us. Because in—when I left Russia, when I left Moscow, it was the 90s and it was very, very dangerous there, so—it was very dangerous just to walk around. If you don't have to go out, it's better to not go out. But when I came to America, it was very—I was so impressed, I don’t feel any dangers around me.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Did you—so you had this really safe view of America, and you could go out and it was much safer in your eyes than it was in Russia when you left. Did you think about going back to Russia to live there because—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, never.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Never?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Never again.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You didn’t feel like the dangers of another terrorist attack warranted going back?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Whatever could happen, now it's my country. Whatever will happen, now I will be part of that. So I'm not thinking about to go back, whatever it is.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So would you say you identify as an American now? If someone asked you what you were, would you say you’re an American, or—</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Definitely.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You wouldn't say you were a Russian?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Nope.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Interesting.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: My roots are Russian. I still speak in Russian, that’s…[inaudible]</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What do you think it means to be an American? What is an American?&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don't know.&nbsp;</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What does it mean to you?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I just live in a great country. It doesn't mean I like everything that is happening to our country, and it could be much better, and it's probably getting worse than it used to be in the 90s. But I believe in America and I believe we could—but I believe we could do better.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Do you think it's worse than when you came here?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What do you mean?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You said you think it's not as good as in the 90s, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, and because of, it's because of economy, because of, actually—probably it started from 9/11. It's how the country started changing, and—we are not so open as we used to be, and that's what I liked about America.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: What do you mean by open?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Open to—ok, open to do things we would like to do. We are not limited to anything by, but by law only. And—so I understand, some things are done for our safety, and I understand it, and I agree with it. But it’s—it is different now, than it used to be. So when you go somewhere, and now when you—we just came from Italy, and when you go to airport, it’s a few checkpoints when security screens you. I remember days when we just go to the airport and sit on the plane and go to another country without any screening. As I said, I agree it needs to be done and it's for our safety, but it’s different.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So you're saying when you went to the airport before 9/11, there wasn't any security? There was no—?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: There was security, but they didn’t check actually your luggage. They didn’t check you, so you just pass by on your flight.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Really?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yep.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Do you feel confident in America’s future. Do you feel like I will have as future—a good as life as you did? As better, or worse?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don't know. It looks to me that the labor market is much worse than it used to be in the 90s. And I see a lot of young people who graduated in colleges, they couldn't find a job. But I believe America could change something about that. To create more workplaces—so for your future, as well.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, a lot of people in my school, in my college, they are very cynical about their futures, and from what we talk about in class, a lot of them feel like their futures won't be as good as their parents’. Granted, their parents, a lot of them weren’t immigrants like mine, so they didn't have to go through as rough conditions, but they don't seem as hopeful for the future as perhaps I do, or you do. Do you think I'll earn as much as you, or have as good a job as you? Do you feel confident in that?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Not so comfortable. Not so confident. But I still believe in America. America could do something about that. I believe in it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Do you think hard work—if you work hard in America, you will be successful here? That you will achieve your dreams here?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah. If you work hard, if you have knowledge, if you have ambitions. You could do whatever you want to do, you can achieve whatever you want to achieve.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Where do you think that attitude comes from? Do you think—we were taught growing up that that’s the American dream, an American idea. But I seem to think that that’s a Russian ideal. That if you work hard, you will succeed. That you have to work hard, that you have to, that you really have to try. You really have to hustle, that you really need to bust your ass to do everything you can and go to sleep tired.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don't think it's a Russian idea. In Russia, you could work hard and you could be very smart, but to be successful, first of all, you have to have connections. Only connections could help you with some goals, not yourself. There are some exceptions, but I mean for a majority of people, it's just by connections, not by your talent. And again, in Russia, back in my time, if you’re Jewish, you are very limited in the position you could obtain, so… A lot of limitation for Jewish people. At least used to be.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: From what I know, maybe not you, maybe not Mom, but my grandparents—your parents—had to do two or three jobs on the side just to earn money. Right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Most of the people just work one job. We didn't pay for much, we didn't have mortgages, so we don’t have to pay. We didn’t have to pay for mortgages, just for food. Just save some money for vacation. It was actually the purpose to earn money. Salary wasn't big, but you didn't have to pay for education, you didn't have to pay for medical service. Medical service wasn't good, but you didn't have any choice. And probably you—you didn't have to pay for that, but you had to give some gifts, something meaningful to get good medical service. And sometimes you had to bribe to get into college as well.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: To give bribes, rights?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You'd say you are a hard worker. You and Mom work hard, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I think so.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Why do you think you do it? What makes you work hard?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: First, I like my job. And actually, I have to earn money. I don’t know, if I had enough money for all my needs, maybe I would afford early retirement and travel, and go spend my life, maybe more interesting than just work, sometimes much more than eight hours. But I have to earn money to pay my mortgage. It’s just twenty-six years left to pay off my mortgage. I hope I will still be alive at that time. So I had to do it. And I like to do it. Sometimes it’s difficult, and it’s a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. But it’s—what is it? What it is.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So you do it for your family? You do it so that you can afford the things you want in life?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It's for my family, to be able to travel, to be able to pay for your education. For other things. To go to restaurants sometimes. To afford things I would like to afford.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I think we could do this for many, many days, weeks. It's been an hour, and I did learn a lot about your life. Is there anything else you’d like to tell me? Anything in particular about your experiences in life or here? Or anything you’d like to share with people? Maybe some hopeful message?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I don't know, actually.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Any advice you would give for people to be successful?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Be a good student. Learn a lot. Be a hard worker. To be ambitious. And you could achieve whatever you would like to.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>AG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Thank you very much, Sergey Gendelman. That was a great interview. Thank you for that.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You’re welcome.</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">(End of Interview)</span></p> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sergey Gendelman Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gendelman, Sergey ; Gendelman, Allan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Sergey Gendelman is a first generation immigrant in America. His roots are in Moscow, Russia. He received a degree in electronic engineering. He went on to further his education in the Soviet Union as a programmer. He immigrated to New York City in 1993 and he worked a few odd jobs until becoming a programmer once again. He continues to live in New York City area with his family. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Sergey Gendelman.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-13 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 61:26 Subject The topic of the resource Gendelman, Sergey Peter.--Interviews; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Soviet Union—History; Communism and culture--Soviet Union; Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; City and town life--New York (State)--New York https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/56a6102152e825a88f3ba0b05ff2d45f.m4a 8e1e70b1e761c14b39c9aed30bb2d620 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Zach Nasca and Emily Greenwell Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Stephan Wasylko Biographical Text Stephan Wasylko was born in a displaced persons camp in Austria in 1948. His parents migrated to the United States with him and his sister in 1949 and they lived on a tobacco plantation in North Carolina. They later moved north and found factory jobs first in New Jersey and then in New York. Stephan received a degree from Syracuse University in International Relations and received a Masters from the University of Toronto. Stephan went into the Foreign Service after receiving his master’s degree and traveled around the world. After retiring Stephan and his wife moved to Binghamton in 2010. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 60:37 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Wasylko, Stephan.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Austria; Prisoner-of-war camps; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Labor camps; Broome County (N.Y.) Interview Format Video or Audio audio OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=StephanWasylko.xml Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Refugee camps; Diplomatic and consular service; Auburn (N.Y.) Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Ukrainian Oral History Project</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Stephan Wasylko</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Zach Nasca and Emily Greenwell</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Transcriber: Zach Nasca and Emily Greenwell</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 10 April 2016</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview Setting: at St. John, Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">(Start of Interview)</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Zach Nasca: Hello, so we're here with Stephan Wasylko and we're going to do an interview. My name is Zack and I'm here with Emily. It's Sunday, May 10, 2016 and we're at St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church and we're going to ask you some questions. So first, I was just wondering if you could tell us a bit about yourself and your background.</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Stephan Wasylko: Well, I am a son of Ukrainians, born in a displaced persons camp in Austria, Salzburg, Austria, in 1948, where my parents wound up after the war. In 1949, they immigrated to the United States, landed in Ellis Island and went off to Kingston, North Carolina, where their sponsors, it was a Christian organization, sponsored them. After a year there, a very difficult hard year as indentured servants, they made their way to Passaic, New Jersey where they lived for three years and then ultimately settled in Auburn, New York which is not far from here. That's where I grew up, went to high school there. I went onto Syracuse University where I got a degree in international relations. Right out of university, I was drafted into the US Army. Following my military service, I went to the University of Toronto where I got an MBA in International Trade and Finance. I worked my way to Washington, and I joined the Foreign Service and so I spent over 35 years in the US Foreign Service with postings in Washington, some short time duty in China, served with my family in tow in Prague and Budapest before the wall came down. I worked in Vancouver at the Consulate General there. From Vancouver, we went to Kyiv, Ukraine, which, this was after the Soviet Union imploded. I helped open the US embassy there. After that, I came back to Toronto where I served for five years at the US Consulate and my kids finally had a North American high school experience. They both graduated from high school there. From Toronto, I was assigned to a US embassy in Moscow. From Moscow, we went to London, UK and from London, UK we were assigned to Ottawa and I retired from Ottawa with personal rank of Minister Counselor.</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Emily Greenwell: So you've been all over! How old were you when your family settled in Auburn?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well I was about 4 years old, but I was 9 months old when my family came over. They had basically two babies. My sister is 2 years older, I was 9 months old, so we were a family of four that came to the United States in March of 1949.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: And how long have you been in Binghamton?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Since retiring, since 2010. My wife grew up in this parish, she's originally from Johnson City. We met in Washington, DC, and our two children are grown. They're both working in the city, so aside from having family and her roots here, this is a convenient place for us to retire— my close enough to our kids without actually being in their hair. It's an easy drive there. Our daughter is now a professional fashion photographer in the city, and our son, she graduated from Newhouse School, Syracuse and our son graduated from Ithaca College and he worked with AIG, he's now with Marsh, big insurance companies.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: When your family came over, you said that they went with sponsors, but then did they have any reason they moved to New Jersey, then Auburn? Was it just for work?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, it's an interesting story. My mother and father were the only ones from their families that ultimately came to the United States. The rest all remained in, well, that's a whole different story because they didn't even remain where they grew up because of a lot of turmoil after the war in Europe. People resettled so they were forcibly moved. My father's family was moved to the east, and my mother's family was moved to the north of the Baltics. Both of them were taken as young people as slave laborers by the Germans who were on the farms in Austria. So, you know, around the turn of the century when this parish was founded, there were people coming to work in America in the coal mines, some graduated from the coal mines and into the shoe factories and the next generation was with IBM. My mother's father actually was in America several times, working in Pennsylvania, in Elmira, had a big textile industry there. He would come for a year at a time and then whatever he saved up he would go home. It was basically free movement of labor and the labor was needed here so it was quite open to immigration. A lot of the companies actually had recruiting offices in central Europe at that time. My mother had an uncle who actually came at the turn of the century, 1900s, and remained. He married and had a family there. My mother, just remember that she had an uncle living in Passaic. When they were in North Carolina, it was so difficult for them. They were working on a tobacco farm and from sunrise to sunset, my dad would often say the treatment was worse than what they had under the Nazis working during the war. So he managed to get a ticket, bus ticket, got on the bus, traveled to Passaic, NJ and started walking the streets looking for the copulas on the churches and he came across one church, went there and asked them if they knew Mr. Michael Pinchak. They didn't but they told him to try this other church, so three churches later he actually met people that knew him. He was of that parish. He went to talk to him, had to introduce himself because he had never met him, talked his way into the house, convinced these people he was who he said he was. The uncle had children that were my parents' peers, they were around the same age. My father said, "We need help," and the uncle said, "Well, I'll have vacation next year, I'll come down and see how you're doing." My father said, "By next year we might be dead." So one of the daughters took an interest, hired a small truck and driver, drove my father back to Kinston, NC, and essentially picked up my mother and my sister and me, and whatever major possessions they had, and they moved to New Jersey. They worked there for three years, they found jobs. My sister, I think, was just starting kindergarten, and I wasn't even in school yet. Then my father came up to Auburn, New York, with a friend who was living in Auburn. She was, again, one of the earlier immigrants and found that they had a Ukrainian community in Auburn and met people. While he was away, we were living up above a grocery store. It was a four story building and we were on the third floor. The weekend my father was away, the person living above us fell asleep smoking and the whole place was incinerated. I remember as a child, firemen coming and pounding on the doors. We were back standing out on the street watching this building burn. So when he came back from Auburn, whatever possessions they had at this point were water damaged and ruined, it was terrible. He said, "Forget this, we're going to go up to Auburn." For them, Auburn was much nicer. It was green, it was more, you know, sort of pastoral setting and more like what they were used to back home, whereas Passaic, New Jersey, was urban and quite alien to their experiences. So, a long way but nothing is simple.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So I guess they were kind of fortunate that they had those connections.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, if you didn't have family then the church would be a place where people would go just gravitate because if you're from the same faith and the same nationality, people reach out and support immigrants. Now, we've got a third wave of immigrants coming. Not too many here, but since Ukraine became independent there's been a huge influx of immigrants coming to United States, but they go where there are jobs and opportunities and unfortunately, this area doesn't offer too much.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Now, when you were in North Carolina, were you part of a church community there or not until you moved up?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, there was a protestant church and they were just doing good work. The ladies of the church were very helpful. They'd bring food and clothes, but we were pretty much sort of a welfare case. The farmer they worked for was basically just using them as labor, but the church was Christian and provided Christian help and care.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: How did you and your wife meet? She's also Ukrainian, you said, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: She is. I'm an immigrant, I had a green card until I took the naturalization exam and got my citizenship. She's third-generation Ukrainian, so her grandmother immigrated and settled here and she came in as a 12-13 year old girl when there was a lot of movement. She married here, my wife's mother was born here and all her aunts and uncles were born here. She said she grew up here, very much a part of this St. John's Baptist Ukrainian Orthodox Church community—which is a church, but it was also a social life for them where they did Easter Egg painting, they sang in the choir, did Ukrainian folk dancing, they had Ukrainian festivals. So kids would, after school, grade school or high school, would gravitate here. We had, at that time, a wonderful pastor. He was married, his wife was great. She was very artistic. They were very inspiring for these kids, and are really responsible for a lot of the people's advancement here in this parish that went onto bigger and better things.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Is your wife in the same line of work as you? You said you met in Washington, right?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: She went to the Fashion Institute of Technology and she was working in Washington as a graphic designer. She's an interior designer by trade and profession, but she was working as a graphic designer. I was in Washington looking for my first job, it was 1976, and there was a celebration in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. It was celebrating the first Ukrainian church in North America that established, and I was interested in going to that. I had a friend, I asked him if he was going. He said he was but he was going to go with this young lady that he had met, and I said, "Well great, if she has room for another person, I'll be happy to go with you all. If not, I'll drive up alone." Fortunately for her, she had room in the back seat, so that's how we met. Yeah, so it had a Ukrainian context in that regard. So we met and after that we started dating, and the rest is history.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: When your parents came over, was there anything, any sort of family heirloom or artifact that they brought over with them? Anything that's been passed down to you?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: They brought a tremendous amount with them, but none of it was material. What they brought was, I think first and foremost, their faith, which they shared with us. It sustained them through really hard times because they were removed from their families. They also brought with them these great traditions, how we celebrate Christmas and Easter, which were on a different calendar. We're on the Julian calendar, so we celebrate Christmas on July 7 instead of December 25. In America, again in a good part thanks to Russian propaganda, people call it Russian Christmas. Well it's not, it's the Julian calendar and it's Orthodox Christmas. Then Easter was another tradition we observed. Our Easter this year for example is May 1, so we can be on the same Sunday or up to 5 weeks apart. Ours has a lot to do with Passover, because the last supper was Passover supper, and so that was sort of embedded in us as children and my parents really made it fun and special, so we always felt different. We didn't always have the neatest sneakers or the nicest tee shirts, but we had something no one else had. Plus, our parents were very nationalistic in terms of preserving their language and history, so at home, around the kitchen table when we were eating dinner, and we did a lot of family dinners that was very much a part especially on Sunday, my father wouldn't let us speak English. We had to speak Ukrainian, and for me and my profession it turned out to be a real gift to preserve it. That was very valuable. They taught us how to read in Ukrainian, we went to Ukrainian cultural programs. We participated in various holidays, Taras Shevchenko was the poet laureate of Ukraine, lived in 1860s, sort of the embodiment of what is Ukraine. We would learn his verse by heart, and anniversary of his birth we would have, you know, in our community, these plays. People would come out and recite poetry by heart. A lot of his poetry is put to music. So it was, you know, church and cultural and all these things that we had, and that was basically their legacy. We've tried to pass it on to our children. My son is getting married on the ninth of July to a Ukrainian girl, which I'm sure his grandparents would be very proud of him. My daughter married a wonderful young man from Atlanta, Georgia, but there again he was at the London School of Economics and he did a semester in Ukraine studying iconography. They met at a Halloween party, and I can't remember what he was dressed as but she was the only one that could recognize him, but it's also part of the Ukrainian Gogol Bordello connection. It's sort of that consciousness of being Ukrainian and he went to Ukraine so they immediately had a lot in common and it carried on from there. You know it's just very much a part of who we are. We call ourselves Ukrainian-Americans, and I'm still involved with Ukraine. I'm going to Washington this week. We have a delegation coming in from Washington and I'm working on a USED funded project to help Ukraine develop a national export strategy while they're going through their reforms and trying to get their economy back on a growth cycle after the Revolution of Dignity and all the things that have happened in Ukraine in the past couple years.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You said your son is marrying a Ukrainian girl. Is that something that for your parents was important to them that you marry someone Ukrainian, or do you feel that way about your kids? Or is it just coincidence?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: It was very important to my parents. I have three sisters. They all married Ukrainians. I married a Ukrainian. I have one brother who was in the doghouse for a while. He married a non-Ukrainian but his wife really bought into all the Ukrainian traditions. They observe both Christmases, both Easters, their children go to Ukrainian dance camps, go to Ukrainian schools on Saturdays and all that, so it's very much a part of it. He's just basically expanded the gene pool a little bit, which can't be bad.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Now you said your wife is third generation. Did any of your traditions or celebrations differ from hers or were they pretty much the same?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: They were pretty much the same I think. The only difference we had was Christmas Eve, we had a conflict in our mushroom soups. But other than that, we shared. She brought some in and I brought some traditions in, and we kind of amalgamated and it now has our mark on it.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Does she speak Ukrainian too?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: She sings in Ukrainian. Her language skills are limited. She understands more than she speaks, but we lived in Ukraine for three years, so she picked up quite a bit there but she's not a linguist.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: How about you children? Do they speak?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: They understand. My daughter-in-law-to-be is fluent. Alexander, my son, he was in a Russian language immersion, so he has his Ukrainian from his grandparents and he had the Russian, so he speaks sort of a hybrid Slavic language. But all my nieces and nephews, my sister's kids, my three sisters, they all speak Ukrainian but they grew up very close to their grandparents and that's really where you can get most of it. We were overseas for most of their growing up so our kids went to, my son went to a Czech preschool, my daughter went to a Hungarian preschool, so at the age of 4 or 5 was my wife's interpreter at the markets.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: That's a cool story for them to tell of how they grew up.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I had a question. You said you identify as Ukrainian-American. Would you say you identify as either more? Or is it just a different identity than, you know, separately Ukrainian?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You know, I don't separate the two because that's the beauty of this country. Your composition of, you know, I think President Kennedy said something to the fact that immigrants really enrich this country. So I'm no less American than anyone else, and actually the fact that, you know, I served this country for, including my military, 37 years. For me it was important to give back to the country for opening its doors to my parents and for us.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Do you think either you personally or your parents, did they face any sort of discrimination for being immigrants?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well I think, you know, you do. Some of it is sort of subliminal. That's why a lot of people change their names even, so they can, and I never felt the need to. I was not, in my own development, I was proud I was Ukrainian. In high school, I had a fight because they would call me, like, "You're a Polack," and at that point in time the kids were doing a lot of name calling and stuff. I said, “I'm not,” but at that point in time nobody knew Ukrainian, it was overshadowed by Russian. So I think maybe for some people it had an influence, and I can recount times when I thought there was some prejudice there, but it makes me all the more satisfied that we were able to overcome that and that my kids don't even think of it. My daughter, even though through marriage her name could have been Line, but she retained her name, Nadya Wasylko. Even her first name, Nadya I think has become more known, a little bit more popular, but she's very proud of her name. As is my son too. When my mother-in-law was growing up, I think they felt a lot more pressure to become Americanized. More of a melting pot mentality. But when we were growing up it was not that bad. In the army, they couldn't pronounce my simple seven letter name. When they yelled out "alphabet", I knew they were calling me. But again, it's pretty simple but we're pretty lazy in America when it comes to foreign languages. Canada is great. You know, we spent a lot of time in Canada. I did my graduate work in Canada, at the University of Toronto, we lived in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa. You know, Canadians define themselves as being not Americans. They won't tell you what Canadian is, but it's definitely not American. We are the melting pot, they promote multi-culturalism. The government really supports different ethnic groups. They put in for grants for various ethnic programs and language training in schools and what have you. That's how they differentiate themselves from us and I think that's really a great thing.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: When your in-laws came over, did they change their names at all to be more part of the melting pot or did they keep their name?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, you know, they kept their name. And in this community, pretty much everybody kept their name. There's a few that actually change it. Her grandmother started out as a Czebiniak, married and became a Dobransky. Her first husband died and she became a Kaspryk. They just kept it. And these names became better in the community too. As the family expanded, they kind of just kept their identity.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Now you said with your family, some of them still live in Ukraine?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, my parents came from very, very humble, almost medieval kind of setting. They were born into families that were essentially in agrarian setting. They lived in thatched roofed huts, houses, dirt floors. Very primitive. This was, you know—my dad was born in 1918, my mother 1924. This was just after World War I. Just before they were born it was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. I know your focus is on the Russian Empire, but this was the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. After WWI, they basically drew borders and this Ukrainian enclave wound up in Poland, south-eastern Poland. Then comes World War II and you have the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and they redraw the borders again and it was after the war, there were a lot of partisans that were still fighting in that area and so they resettled everybody. My parents, I travelled there, I visited these areas. They were about, maybe ten miles away, their villages. In the 50s, they resettled all the population there, basically to undermine the base of operations of the partisans and for their own needs. The Russians came in and took all the people of my father's village and moved them east, forcibly moved them east. They had to abandon everything. My mother's family was moved north by the Poles to what was the Danzig Corridor. That ran along the Baltic in what is now Northern Poland. That was all occupied by Germans. After World War II, the Germans were basically moved out of there. Poland got the land going right up to the Baltic and they used the people from south-eastern Ukraine to fill that vacuum. So they were all forcibly moved up there. My father was moved to the east. My parents, after the war, were caught up in the displaced persons camps. They were considered stateless because they were Ukrainians, living in what was formerly Poland, and some areas now occupied by the Russians, so they spent from 45-49 in the camp before they resettled. You know, you see now the Syrian immigrants in the camps in Europe, you know, it's basically that kind of setting with these huge, you know compounds where these peoples lived and managed to survive. And so, your question was family there; yes, my mother’s family was in Poland, my father’s family is in what is near Lviv turn, Western Ukraine, and I’ve, you know, I’ve had contact with all of them in both countries.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Did they stay because they didn't have sponsors like your parents, or did they stay for other reasons?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: They stayed because they had no options, they were under communist control, the USSR at that time was a locked—you know they couldn't, you couldn't even go from one city to another without having a totalitarian government, so under Stalin at that time, it was extremely difficult, and Poland went Communist you know in '49, the communists took over. And restrictions on travel, on movement of people, you know it was the Iron Curtain. It had gone up, and so it was, what Ronald Reagan referred to as the “evil empire” had taken hold and so people were basically prisoners in their own countries. Prisoners.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So, sorry if this is going backwards, but how did your parents manage to come over then, if the rest of the family couldn't? Because of the sponsors?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well, because they were separated by their families, during the war, '39 the Germans came in to the region they were in. And they took young people from different homes and took them as slave laborers to Austria and to Germany. So they—after the war was over, you had the, you know, literally millions of displaced people, you had prisoners of war, you had slave laborers, you had millions of people that were, had been uprooted by the war and had wound up in different locations at the end of the war. So they didn't know what had happened to their families. They were taken into these camps, then there were all these international NGOs, these nations that are trying to sort out. A lot of people repatriated; others like my parents were classified as stateless, there was nowhere to repatriate them, although the Russians came in and tried to take people back, and the people that they did repatriate directly, a lot of them, you know, suffered as a consequence. They were considered as collaborators with the Germans, many were imprisoned, some were killed; others were sent off to Siberia. And some you know, my parents managed to find a safe haven, and they were in an American zone, and eventually there was, it was a long process for them to get resettled. That’s why when you, when you have this big uproar about immigrants coming to America now, you know, it's a lot of rhetoric, but that clearance process is very very difficult and it takes time, and you got to, what is the name of accepting the displaced people until later you know, some kind of treatise to open up more quickly, my parents could have moved out of the camps more readily had they agreed to go to Australia, or to South America, but again, because they grew up hearing about stories about their grandparents going to America, they were more determined to wait it out until they had an opportunity to get on the manifest to go to America. So it wasn't a matter of choice—the winds of war swept people around and my father would always say that, as terrible as the war was, World War II, in many respects it opened up the world for these people who lived in these really beautiful pristine valleys and villages, and very idyllic nice place for tourists to visit, but they were a subsistence economy that, you just couldn't survive you know, had the situation like that continued. They'd have to find a way to find more opportunities.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: You said that your parents kind of held out for America. Do you think that America met their expectations? Did they have the sort of American dream mentality for it?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I think you know, eventually over time they realized the American dream. They came to this country penniless with no education to speak of, you know, they can read, they can write, but they really didn't have, you know, what they were able to give their children. So they raised five kids, we all went to University, they had their own home. My dad got his own car. You know it was just remarkable, and they worked. They worked. They were blue collar workers. They worked in factory. My mom worked the day shift, my father worked the night shift. But when they got to Auburn. When you know, they found the house, put a down payment on it. They managed to pay it off in like five years, paid off their mortgage. And again they just—it was amazing, you know, for them at the same time, you know their brothers and sisters and even their parents in the early years, were still alive, you know, who were living a terrible life behind the Iron Curtain in the Soviet Union. You know, my parents, once things, after Stalin died and there was a little more communication, they sent letters, or they would send, you know, money. They would package, you know, clothing and send it, or there was even services where you could actually do gift packs of food and send it. I went to Ukraine in 1975 with my dad. He had not been back in forty years. And or seen his brothers in 40 years. He had five brothers and they were all young, virile men. When, as he remembered them, in '75 we went back and he was absolutely devastated to see his brothers. How you know, how abused they were. How downtrodden and you know, they, my father looked like a capitalist, and these guys looked like homeless people. And they worked as hard if not harder than my father, but they didn't have the opportunities, their kids didn't have the opportunity to go to education. And in our case, you know, for you know, if my parents didn't get out of that world, there's no way I would have been a diplomat for the Soviet Union or for Poland, you know, unless you were connected, unless you worked the system, unless you were a member of the Communist Party, you had nothing. And so they came here, and basically by their own sweat and toil, and they're, you know, very scrupulous habits, we didn't go out when we were going up, out to restaurants or anything. My parents had their own garden, you know, canned peaches and pears, and they basically took their own training and their way of life, transposed it into an American setting, managed to save money, managed to buy a house, managed to do all these things. And I never felt that, even though we didn't live on the East End of Auburn, where all the doctors and lawyers [lived], but we were not really poor in any way. We had food, we had clothing, we were washed and clean and we were presentable. But that was all basically their commitment and dedication to their family. And again, what they managed to do for them really was a realization of the American dream. I hear about the, all kinds of people use the [word] “American” and I think it means different things for different people. When I was in Moscow we had Secretary Evans, who was a friend of George W. Bush. They were real buddies, and actually Don Evans introduced George to Laura. So they were really good good friends, and he would come out and he would, Secretary Evans would talk about his own life, and how he and his friend George, young starry eyed guys, you know, went out there looking for oil in Texas, and looking to, living the American dream. Well, you know, to me that was great but it's like, just like Trump's thing is living the American dream because he's so successful, he only started with a few million.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Only?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Only. So that was great, great for him, but you know for my parents, it really was you know the American dream, to where they started and what they accomplished, and you know, where they'd gone. And just in a very short, one, two generations. You know it's been great. And they were inspiring, you know, they're inspiring to even my kids, who hadn't experienced, and so, you know I try to instill in my own kids, you know that, and they're familiar with their grandparents’ story. I've seen them go the distance, you know, see where your grandparents started and how far they went, and then how we've gone in the next generation, and for you, and again, it doesn't have to about money, it's just has to do about you know believing and trying to achieve something you know make your life meaningful. And so that's a great story right there.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Now you said neither of your parents got an education but all of your siblings did. Was education important to them—that you got it?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah, but they were, my mother got the report card. You know when a teacher told her, “Well, Stephan is, he's pretty smart but he's lazy.” Well, you know how they dealt with lazy kids back then, you know it was— But yeah, it was very, very important to them. When there were Ukrainians and there was Poland. They were a minority there too, so they suffered a lot of discrimination and abuse in Poland as ethnic Ukrainians, they didn't have their own schools. They didn't have their own language, newspaper or books or anything they were sort of looked down upon and you know they were in this, hills. The foothills of the Carpathian Mountains, and I think they were looked upon and treated as hillbillies. They didn't have a lot of opportunities. Now people that lived in larger cities, that was different. Maybe they had more success, but for my parents it was tough, and so when they came to America, you know the fact that you know they didn't have to do anything special, actually we were required to go to school, so immediately we are in Kindergarten and going to school, and in Auburn we had a parochial school, it was the Ukrainian St. Paul Ukrainian Catholic school, so that's where they sent us. Then we went to the public school system, and then. My parents, my dad in particular, he would ask me, “What, how much education do you really need?” You know, and I said, “Well, I don't know,” but, because after, you know, first of all I'm going away to University, that was something that they weren't really too excited about, because when you go away you go away, you know, and they had gone away, and so they were really very focused on keeping us close. But I went away from Auburn to Syracuse, that's 27 miles away but it was like it was away. And then when I went, after I got out of the military and I said I was going to go for my Masters, again they didn't really comprehend why: “When are you finally going to go to work?” But that was, again, their mindset. It was beyond what they felt one needed.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Did your siblings go away for school, as well, or did they stay close to your parents?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well my oldest sister went to the local community college, it was Auburn Community College at that point in time. Now it's I think, it's like Broome County, BCC, so she did that, and then I went away, my other sisters went away, my brother went away so you know it was sort of weaning you know a weaning process.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So you were the first to leave?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Actually leave? Yeah, which was, you know, but they, you know they were very, you know, proud of the fact, but they'd always say, so what is it that you do? But that went on even here, you know my mother-in-law, when she had just made—at that point my first job was with the US Department of Commerce in Washington, and she'd introduce me as her son in law who works for the Junior Chamber of Commerce, which was not quite the same, but again, people have trouble grasping it if they had never been there and done that.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: So now I want to talk about—you said obviously you traveled a lot, so is there any place that you, specifically liked more than any others, or felt the most at home at, and do you have any interesting stories about your travels?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well, we don't have the time. I'm sure, you know every place, when you, on a foreign assignment representing the US government and doing the kind of work I did, you know, it's absolutely fascinating, and every country has its plusses and minuses, but you know for me, I think probably the most meaningful assignment was to go to Kyiv and, you know, that was from 92 to 95, when we were establishing the US embassy in Ukraine and established diplomatic relations with Ukraine. I had a tremendous sense of actually working for two countries, you know, doing you know our bidding for the US, at the same time, sharing my US experience with Ukrainian government officials and trying to encourage them with their transformation from a central planned economy to a free market economy. And my capacity, I was working as a senior commercial officer so we were bringing the US companies in to basically trade with Ukraine, to invest in Ukraine, and you know to this very day I'm still trying to help that process, so it was very very difficult, it was frustrating. You always wanted things to move more quickly. 25 years later they're still facing some of the same issues. What was particularly striking and interesting was that in places like Kyiv—it's commonly called, it’s “Kiev” in Russian context but “Kyiv” in Ukrainian, you know that was so Russified that you know we were more Ukrainian than they were in many respects. The Ukrainian people living under communism, you know, weren't, it was an Atheist country so they didn't have the kind of religious; you know, faith organizations or engagement as we grew up with. A lot of the traditions were no longer even practiced in Ukraine. In Kyiv, in the big cities, out in the villages I think they were still preserved, but my wife actually, she's in the memorial center now running the Pysanka workshop doing the Ukrainian Easter eggs. She did the same thing in Ukraine for Ukrainians because they had no idea. And actually during the Stalinist years, they would look at children's hands. If you had dyes on your hands, then they knew your family may be doing this evil thing, and doing you know making these Easter eggs which related to a Christian holiday, which could set you back quite a bit or you could even be punished for doing that, so living and working in Ukraine was an amazing experience, and you know, going back now I can see how much has changed, and I can still see how much further it has to go, and you know it's a beautiful country and we actually got to see firsthand you know, some of the things that we read about and heard about. We went to the theatre and you can see, you know, the performing artists, performing well-known Ukrainian operas and plays, Ukrainian dancers, and it's just really all kinds of different traditions that you can actually witness. So that was a great bonus on top of— I never worked harder in any job than there. I always used to tell people, you know, in Ukraine you need to work four times as hard to go half the distance, but it was what it was and it was just a thrill.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: While you were working there, did you hear any or witness any views about what they think about America? Did they have negative views of America, or was it positive?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: While we were there, people had positive, sometimes unrealistic views; you know they, you know everything, you know, in America, you know, money grew on trees and, you know, sort of the land of milk and honey, and they didn't really grasp how hard people really had to work in order to achieve what they got and earned, so you know, growing up in this socialist environment, you know, they say, well if you have it, why can't I have half of what you have, you know? Which is, and even going back to when my father was alive, and I went with him for the first time, they said, well, his family would say, “Well, you have more than one car.” And they go, “Well yeah, you know, like I have a car, Stephan has a car, and has a car,” and so at that point in time, we had three cars and the family [says], “Well, why do you need three cars? Why don't you send us one?” you know, and you know they were always wanting. But not understanding that, you know, it doesn't come that easy. And so I think there's those kinds of misconceptions, there’s, you know, and a lot of that is going into, you know what the biggest issue in that part of the world is now is, the greed is one real problem, corruption is another major problem. A lack of, you know charity, altruistic society, you know, when I was there it was, everybody was just scrambling to get whatever they could get, and that sort of legacy of the Soviet system, of, you know, if you were in line in the supply chain, then you would steal whatever you could, while you had the opportunity to do it. That's changed considerably in the last few years, especially since this Revolution of Dignity, and a lot of people, they are really, these civil society pushing for change. People of your generation who, you know, were born after the collapse of communism. They don't, they really didn't experience what that is. But that hangover is still there, and it really is, you know, a real drag on the country’s development. Now they've signed the association agreement with the EU, people are you know, which is basically a roadmap for them on how they should govern, how they should work, what the world standards are for everything from food products to the legal systems, and so the younger generation says you know like, we need to adopt that, and once we do then we can be competitive with the rest of the world, but there is a lot of vested interest that really depends on the status quo. So, it's a real struggle, and so they're confronting, you know, an external evil with Putin taking Crimea, invading Eastern Ukraine, and then the internal evil forces that are basic corruption and greed, a lack of rule of law that undermines progress and keeps it from moving as quickly as it could.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: When you were sort of like, traveling for your work, I assume you weren't as involved in a Ukrainian community as you were here. Is that, would you say that's true or not?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No, no. You know, it varied—like in Ukraine, you were in Ukraine, so, like everything was Ukraine.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Yeah.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: In Hungary, there wasn't that much, in Prague, you know, I'd meet some people, actually I had Secret Service come at me, through this Ukrainian sort of contact, and befriended me, so you couldn't really trust who is what and what was going on, but in places like Vancouver, you know you had a Ukrainian community there, in Toronto as well. Ottawa, same thing. And so and kind of the community like that, you're on assignment working at the US embassy in Ottawa for example. After you get settled, well, you know, Sunday we'll go to church, and then you meet, you know, other Ukrainians and they'll put you on their mailing list and tell you things that are going on or—so yeah, it's always there, and again, come Christmas and Easter and the holidays, you know, we'd invite our, even though we were American, we celebrated 4th of July, and have a huge reception and parties for that, in my work you know we had trade shows and we'd do all kinds of different events, waving the American flag, but then we had our Ukrainian holidays, we would invite embassy friends, and we'd invite people from the community, friends that we made, and share with them some of our Ukrainian culture in an American setting, and so it was, we're really promoters of things Ukrainian, and I think that just comes from the fact that Ukraine had been so overshadowed for so long, you almost feel like it's an obligation, to do that, to educate people and let them share a little bit of the Ukrainian history and culture.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Now, here would you say that most of the Ukrainian community revolves around the church, or are there other Ukrainian organizations?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">:&nbsp; Here it's, it's pretty much church-affiliated, there's a small group of people that are involved in the political way, the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America has a branch here, so, you know, we do flag-raising on Ukrainian independence day, to get a little press. You know the festivals that we do here, Sacred Heart does some festivals; we do, we try to promote a little bit of the Ukrainian thing, but it pretty much centers around the church. And a lot of it's apolitical—you know, actually, I'm probably more of an agitator than the rest because I want people to be aware of, you know, the plight of others and it's, you know, we're sort of in—sometimes we fade into la-la land, you know, we're just watching baseball and the NCAA tournament, which is great and all that, but we forget, we tend to forget about what's happening in the world around us. Just given my background experience and my work, my career, I think we have an obligation to at least know what's going on.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Would you, do you think the Ukrainian community in Binghamton in general is a close-knit community, do you have a lot of involvement with each other?</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I, you know, I think over time, we are just sort of dissolving into the broader community, and that's a natural thing, you know we have a lot of mixed marriages now. We don't have the language. Our deacon, you heard it in church, he's not even Ukrainian, he married a young lady from our parish and he went to the seminary, and for him to get ordained he has to have, to be able to do the liturgy in Ukrainian. So he's working on his language, but with that one exception, no one really pays attention to it. So yeah we're basically losing it and other communities who have been blessed or have been able to receive the third wave of immigrants. My wife's grandparents were considered the first wave. My family when I came in was the second wave. And now you have the third wave, post-independence. They're coming here and, you know, some places, some cities, they have basically taken over the churches, the organizations and sort of revitalized all of them, and sort of given them sort of life extension that we don't have here. We're having trouble with even supporting this campus that I may have mentioned earlier because we, this church had like 300 people at one point. We're down to 130, and a third of them don't live in the area. Another third are octogenarians, and so that doesn't leave a whole lot of people to sustain this.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>ZN</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Well, I think that's all the time we have for questions, so thank you very much.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: Thank you!</span></p> <br /> <p><b>SW</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: I hope I didn't overburden you.</span></p> <br /> <p><b>EG</b><span style="font-weight: 400;">: No! Not at all. It was very interesting.</span></p> <br /> <p><span style="font-weight: 400;">(End of Interview)</span></p> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Stephan Wasylko Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Wasylko, Stephan ; Nasca, Zach ; Greenwell, Emily Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Stephan Wasylko was born in a displaced persons camp in Austria in 1948. His parents migrated to the United States with him and his sister in 1949 and they lived on a tobacco plantation in North Carolina. They later moved north and found factory jobs first in New Jersey and then in New York. Stephan received a degree from Syracuse University in International Relations and received a Masters from the University of Toronto. Stephan went into the Foreign Service after receiving his master’s degree and traveled around the world. After retiring Stephan and his wife moved to Binghamton in 2010. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stephan Wasylko.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-10 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 60:37 Subject The topic of the resource Wasylko, Stephan.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Austria; Prisoner-of-war camps; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Labor camps; Broome County (N.Y.) https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7fcf63ae9b0cccacc9c02bdbbb3ee648.jpeg 94011bbc9d5d917b17e3f3aee3dae364 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e70ddf94bb04a33ea7b6aeba1cb94dba.mp3 5298a9a7b94af78800b6c70923e24c24 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ann B. Czebiniak Biographical Text Ann B. Czebiniak is a first generation Ukrainian American who was born in Johnson City, NY, and worked for IBM. She is not married but has a large extended family.She is a member of Ukrainian Catholic Church and resides in the Southern Tier with her family. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 62:00 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Czebiniak, Ann.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Russian; Poland; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) Interview Format Video or Audio audio OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=AnnCzebiniak.xml Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Ukrainian Americans; International Business Machines Corporation; Ukrainian Catholic Church; Ethnic identity Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium <p class="first-p">Ukrainian Oral History Project</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_1"></span><span></span> <p>Interview with: Ann B. Czebiniak</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_3"></span><span></span> <p>Interviewed by: Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_5"></span><span></span> <p>Transcriber: Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_7"></span><span></span> <p>Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:15:00 AM</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_9"></span><span></span> <p>Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_11"></span><span></span> <p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_13"></span><span></span> <p>(Start of Interview)</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_15"></span><span></span> <p><strong>Briana Comuniello</strong>: Alright, so good morning.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_17"></span><span></span> <p><strong>Ann Czebiniak</strong>: Morning.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_19"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>We will be doing an hour interview with you today. Umm, just to start off,<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_21">can you state your full name and maybe a little bit about yourself?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_22"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Uhh, my name is Ann Czebiniak and I am one of uhh eleven children. Two of my<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_24">sisters died before I was uhh born and right now there's only my one sister and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_25">a brother. All the rest of them are gone.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_26"></span><span></span> <p><strong>BC and Drew Tenbus</strong>: Wow</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_28"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, and as I say, I was born in America, and in fact it's only, not far away<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_30">from where we are up on the hill. I was born there, and I went to catholic</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_31">school. I went twelve years. Uhh, St. Stanislav which no longer is here and then</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_32">I moved to Saint Patrick's for twelve years on that and they were taught by the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_33">nuns both and they were very strict, and they were good, excellent teachers, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_34">they were very good. And when I started, my first job was in a grocery store,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_35">and then one day at the clothes store I was fortunate, I got a job when I worked</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_36">in IBM, I retired.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_37"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh wow, that's very interesting</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_39"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, I was very fortunate</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_41"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>What did you do at IBM?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_43"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh, I used to work for engineering and I was not an engineer but thank god<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_45">for a lot of brothers, they were electricians, everything and all electrical</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_46">things I understood, so I used to, uhh when computers first came out, those big</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_47">things on there, we were the ones that, I was the one that they failed, I was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_48">the one that had to find out why they failed.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_49"></span><span></span> <p><strong>BC and DT</strong>: Ahh!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_51"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That was my job. So, I, it was very good, and then it was very, and as I say<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_53">the engineers were good but they only had everything on paper.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_54"></span><span></span> <p><strong>AC</strong>:&nbsp;Paperwork</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_56"></span><span></span> <p><strong>DT</strong>:&nbsp;Before paperwork</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_58"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>But I grew up with it. My brothers did those things, so I knew, I<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_60">understood, electricity was easier for me to find the defects. And I was very,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_61">very, I was very fortunate at IBM, they used all my talents that I had. I have</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_62">to say. It was very, very profitable and I'm grateful for that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_63"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's amazing. Umm, do you wanna talk about, uhh your parents? You said<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_65">they came here--</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_66"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well, you ask the questions. Well, what do you want to hear?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_68"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yeah, we'll take it back a little bit. Uhh, your parents are from Ukraine?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_70"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>No, they were from Poland.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_72"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_74"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Let me explain that. They originally under Franz Josef and that was Austria<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_76">and when they had the Austrian divide the section where they lived ended up in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_77">the Polish area.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_78"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_80"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, they originally and when I was visit in uhh 1985, I went to visit the<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_82">village my parents came from and they still, uhh there was a Ukrainian church</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_83">that-- a Ukrainian church there.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_84"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, that's how we got from Poland.&nbsp;</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_86"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's interesting. Umm, when did your parents come here?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_88"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Uhh, I started to tell you before. My dad came here in 1905. My dad was born<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_90">in 1880. And he came here on a work visa in 1905. He worked for five years and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_91">my aunt came. My, there was only two of them- there was three but my uncle died,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_92">and my aunt came with my dad but she got sick over here and she went back and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_93">died. But my dad was here for five years and he worked partly on, in EJs</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_94">(Endicott-Johnson) that they long time ago on there, they worked things.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_95"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_97"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, originally, he started to work on the trains with the trains but then he<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_99">got a job in EJs and that's where he was. After five years he went back to uhh</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_100">Europe, you know, and he got married and my oldest brother which is Adrianna's</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_101">great grandfather (referring to her great-great niece who was also being</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_102">interviewed on the other side of the room) was born there. And he was only like</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_103">four, five months when they had, and my dad decided we bought property and no</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_104">money because in the area where there was, you know, just farming you don't, so</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_105">my dad came to the United States in 1914 and it was late part of 1914 just</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_106">before World War I. He got here WWI broke out and my dad was in America here and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_107">my mother was in Poland and for four years it was illegal, you could not even</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_108">write letters. They had no idea anything about each other. So, after the war was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_109">over, they communicated, and my dad was, he paid the property, you know. My</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_110">mother was very smart and- not smart, wise and she figured that if my dad could</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_111">make a living in America and pay half the property there, things are better here</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_112">than they are there. And other thing that my mother did not like is that after</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_113">the war things got political and unfortunately that the Catholic Church in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_114">Poland, the Ukrainian Catholic Church was pulling. My mother used to call them-</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_115">didn't call them Russians, they called them Muscovites so they're going towards</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_116">Russia and my mother didn't like that so that was one of the other reasons why</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_117">she came to this country. So, they got here, and they, my dad, he built a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_118">property that's for all but my two brothers that were my oldest brother and my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_119">other brother, we were all born there. All of us. All 8, 9 of us. So, and I say</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_120">that my dad got sick and he was truck farming and then my oldest brother, I says</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_121">my oldest brother Mike, that's his name, he was very smart. Not knowing the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_122">language at all when they came here to America, they started a Catholic School</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_123">St. Stanislav and that was just beginning on there and he went to school, and he</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_124">was six years old when he came here but he was so smart that he skipped to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_125">grades in school.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_126"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC AND DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_128"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>He was very, too bad he couldn't finish like, go on to college and that he<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_130">could've had, at that time there was things, but he finished and then he got</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_131">job. He had job as a meat cutter and that at that time meat cutters were making</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_132">more money than the factory people, so he was the one that helped my dad to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_133">raise the farm, the family on there. So, until we got old enough to you know,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_134">the older ones came and we all had our turn to keep our mother and father, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_135">had to do our turn for. And the fact that I was the last one I kept the house up</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_136">and all and I supported them until they died.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_137"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow. How was it growing up with such a big family?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_139"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Excellent. You know what, you don't, if you have a problem, there's always<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_141">someone to ask and in a big family, no matter what your problem is you're gonna</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_142">find somebody who's had that problem. And that is big because you don't have to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_143">decide on yourself, you can make a judgement on what they lived through.&nbsp;&nbsp;I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_144">found it very beneficial and I (stutters) now I miss them because I used to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_145">depend on the brothers and all because, and they're gone. And I say five of my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_146">brothers are, they're gone you know. And they did a lot, and we were a very</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_147">close family. As you see over here, family's all together.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_148"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>(Laughing) Everyone's still here (referring to Ann's extended family who<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_150">came to church with her).</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_151"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, I say, we enjoyed family life and it was very good on there. When we<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_153">uhh, this was just before World War II, my brother, oldest brother, he bought a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_154">farm and the reason why he bought the farm was that they had a little building</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_155">on the corner and my brother wanted to have a little, like we had, the 9/11</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_156">little store over there. And he did have it during WWII. And then, as I say, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_157">had chance the man that he worked for in town, the meat cutter, he had two</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_158">stores, so he, my brother, has chance to buy one of the stores.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_159"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC AND DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_161"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>But during the war times, he couldn't work out in the store because they<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_163">would've all been drafted. I have five (brothers) you know. So, what they did is</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_164">that my brother worked on the farm from Monday till Friday and then Friday;</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_165">Monday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday they worked in the store. My sister, my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_166">oldest sister, she was the one that took care of the store and my brother Andy</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_167">also was attending, he knew how to cut meat. So, they took care that during the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_168">week. So, for that and then, and see, my oldest brother, my brother Pete, I said</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_169">(stutters) four of my brothers were in the service. So, they had, they go, they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_170">all went at different times because they were younger. And then nephews,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_171">Adrianna's uncle, he was in Vietnam and I says I have, what's his name, nephews</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_172">that were all, one that was in Germany, I had like six or seven nephews that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_173">were in the service, so.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_174"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow. Were they all from different branches or--?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_176"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yah, I have a nephew, my one brother and nephew were in the Air Force, and<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_178">one nephew was in the Navy, and he was on the ship in Midway, and I have</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_179">nephews, and the nephews were in different (stutters), served in the army. One</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_180">of, her uncle (referring to her great-great niece) had a good job. He was in the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_181">army. He was drafted but he was drafted already after he went to college. And he</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_182">had a nice job because he used to be a chauffeur for Air Force generals so that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_183">was a nice job. But I unfortunately, I lost a brother-in-law in WWII.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_184"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Really?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_186"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>My sister Pauline, there's only three of us sisters. The two sisters died<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_188">way, way back but three of my sisters that lived, and my middle sister, uhm she</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_189">got married like four months before she was 18 and her husband went to war, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_190">he was killed in the Battle of the Bulge if anybody knows that. And my sister,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_191">she has two girls, she lived with her husband only 35 days. Could you imagine?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_192"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_194"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And the two times they had, as she saw, she got pregnant, and the youngest<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_196">one, the youngest girl was only four months when he was killed.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_197"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC AND DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_199"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And his uncle- his brother tried, he was in the service also and tried to<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_201">find out how he died but his whole outfit was killed. They were at the position</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_202">where they had to keep the place because if they, that area in the Battle of the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_203">Bulge, if they gave in, it could've been, the war could've gone another way. So</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_204">they had to, and they had, and it was a bad time. He died in December in 1944.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_205">So that was about the things. And I say, other brothers are very unfortunate,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_206">they were very good in the service, no problems.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_207"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Were your parents, uhm happy that they joined the service or-- what was<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_209">their feeling towards--?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_210"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>My mother and father-- I gotta tell you about my brother Andy. No, my<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_212">mother, they did not, that's part because in Europe people had to go in service</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_213">too.&nbsp;My brother Andy was in the Korean War and he went into the service and my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_214">mother prayed very, very hard that he would not go to Korea. So he was stationed</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_215">in Texas and the place of demarcation was St. Louis, Fort Lewis in Washington</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_216">State, so they moved my brother up to Washington State. He was supposed to go to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_217">Korea. Well, they lost his records. They lost his records for three months.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_218"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>(Laughing)</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_220"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>It was in the back of the, you know drawer, in the back, and when they found<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_222">that, it was already, they could not send anybody overseas unless they had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_223">(served) a year, and it was less than a year, so my brother did not go. And my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_224">mother, it was through her prayers.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_225"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, all those prayers-- (Laughs)</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_227"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And for that, you could talk about that, my mother made a sacrifice, that<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_229">she would never have any alcoholic beverages as long as she lived, and she</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_230">didn't as thank you for not brother not going in there.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_231"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's crazy!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_233"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>They say have faith up there or something. A lot of people have faith, you<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_235">find out that a lot of people here came from Ukraine, and if you talk to every</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_236">one of them, you find out that each one has a unique story and frightening. It</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_237">is terrible what they went through. It's a wonder that they are mentally ok. So</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_238"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, going back a little bit, both your parents are from Poland or Ukraine or<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_240">around there?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_241"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>My mother was born in 19- 1888. They were born there. My father was all<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_243">Ukrainian and my mother's great grandmother- my mother's grandmother, my great</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_244">grandmother, was Polish on her mother's side. So that was a thing that they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_245">were-- And I have to tell you, it's tradition in the country that if your mother</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_246">was like Polish, you are Polish, you're not another thing. My mother was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_247">baptized and everything in the eastern, in our church, but they always</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_248">considered them as Polish because they're with the mother. That was-- other</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_249">countries had that too. They called them Polish more than Ukrainian.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_250"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>What did your parents identify as?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_252"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pardon?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_254"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>What did your parents identify as? Uhh, Polish, Ukrainian--?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_256"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>No, they were Ukrainian, they were because they on that, they had to come in<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_258">on a Polish visa because if you were born in America, you know, I don't know</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_259">what nationality you are, but your nationality is yours. But where you're born,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_260">that's where your country is. But they were not born there, but since they lived</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_261">in there, and you get a visa, if you get to go out, if you go from America, I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_262">don't care, you (stutters) you could be Irish or whatever, you're still an</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_263">American. When you're born here you're still in America. And we, as we say that,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_264">we respect our background, but we love America. We [stutters] had nothing</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_265">against them. Even like my brothers' serving, all my parents, nobody had. And,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_266">my mother and father, as many times, as long as they've been here, they've never</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_267">even had the desire to go back to visit.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_268"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Really?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_270"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I was fortunate, I went but they [her parents] didn't. I went in 1985. It<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_272">was still under communism, and the area, and I'll tell you something, you don't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_273">realize that, when, you know, we're free over here and all, but when drove into</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_274">Warsaw, and you see guys on the steps with guns up there, it doesn't make you</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_275">feel very comfortable. Everywhere you look there's guns and eyes and that's not</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_276">what we have here.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_277"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Right.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_279"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_281"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow. That's very interesting.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_283"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, ask whatever, you know, you ask whatever you want.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_285"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I don't know what you want to know</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_287"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Uhh, so what language did you speak at home?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_289"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I spoke Ukrainian</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_291"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_293"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>We all, my mother did not speak very good English, in fact, she tried to get<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_295">her citizenship and she couldn't speak well enough. My dad became an American citizen.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_296"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh, ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_298"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>He was an American citizen, on that. But they loved America.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_300"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Your first language was Ukrainian?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_302"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well they spoke at home, my mother didn't speak (English), and when we went<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_304">to school, in fact (stutters), I knew English because the older ones already</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_305">(knew it). Because they taught in school.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_306"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC AND DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh wow.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_308"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>You know, they start in school in English but we at home, we had to speak<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_310">our language. I hate to say it, my mother that is used to say, "Jews, are you</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_311">Jews that you talk another language?" You know.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_312"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>They used to pick on us, but we had at home (stutters) and actually it was<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_314">an asset because when we had any kind of a problems or anything where people had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_315">to talk to my parents, I would translate. I had no problem. In fact, that one of</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_316">our professors from church here many years ago asked me if I think in Ukrainian</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_317">when I speak it, or do I translate it into English and I never thought about it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_318">but I have to say that for me and my brother the same thing. We don't have no</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_319">difference, we think in whatever we're talking. You don't even know that we're</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_320">changing thoughts in a different--We don' translate. We just know two words for</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_321">the same thing.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_322"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Do you dream in both languages? Have you noticed?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_324"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Huh?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_326"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Do you dream in both languages?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_328"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Depends (coughs). Depends on what the dream is. If I dream of like my<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_330">parents, and you had. And one other thing that I'll tell you that lot of people</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_331">don't know, Americans, is that one time when I was working in the grocery store</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_332">a lady come in that I knew but she didn't speak very good English, so I spoke to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_333">her in Ukrainian. And one of the guys who were there was telling me that they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_334">should speak English but I told him, and I'll tell you, now if you go to France</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_335">and you live there for fifty years and you meet an American, you're not gonna</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_336">talk to him in French, you're gonna talk to him in English because that is</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_337">natural for you. To the people that you speak, talk in that language, and you,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_338">and American, I mean you speak American and all that, but people from other</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_339">nationalities you're gonna find out you're gonna speak in different language.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_340">Where you, what you know, what you grew up with.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_341"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC AND DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Interesting.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_343"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And you don't think that but I was confronted with it so I know.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_345"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Have you ever been either discriminated against because of speaking a<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_347">different language or anything?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_348"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>No.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_350"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, you felt very comfortable because there was a lot of Ukrainians here,<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_352">obviously, in Binghamton?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_353"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pardon, I didn't hear you.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_355"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Did you feel comfortable growing up here because, did you feel there was a<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_357">lot of other Ukrainians here that it was like kind of--</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_358"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Uhh, it didn't matter because there was an awful lot of other people. There<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_360">was Polish, Slavic, ehh Slavic people, Czechs, uhh Italians. We grew up there</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_361">was an awful lot of different. It did not make [Stutters]. I think that now</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_362">unfortunately they make this racist, that, and we didn't even know what anything</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_363">like what race has been. That was not and that thing, I think they make bigger</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_364">issue now than they used to. We grew up, it didn't matter. I say, Blacks didn't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_365">matter to us.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_366"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Because everyone back then was very heterogeneous?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_368"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Because everybody was, most everybody was from another place, you know? What<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_370">they did respect was they, I think more for what you really are. I worked, when</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_371">I worked in IBM, I worked with people--the lady from Laos, lady from Korea, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_372">she in fact, she was from the Chinese dynasty, that she was from Korea. And the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_373">only reason why got to America is because her husband worked for the army. And</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_374">once the army left southern, all the people that worked for the army, they took</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_375">them out because the communist would've been taken amnesty against them because</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_376">they were working for the Americans. So, they were sent to either America or</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_377">Australia, other countries. They would not leave them there. And she had, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_378">[stutters] we understood each other because she was talking to other people,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_379">they didn't believe it. But in North Korea, they had all the houses bugged. You</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_380">couldn't talk even in your own home. And you say something they already knew,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_381">and I only knew because they did the same thing in Ukraine, so I understood. But</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_382">regular people that never was come from something like that don't understand.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_383"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Do you have any specific memories of your time working for IBM?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_385"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I was very fortunate, that's all I says. I was very fortunate, I was very<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_387">well-liked. They liked my work. In fact, they didn't like that I was gonna</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_388">retire. In fact, I met a man that was a manager after I retired, and he asked me</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_389">to go back. To go for temporary but I-- I had other things. I'm very active at church.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_390"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Did you go to school to learn all about the electricity or anything?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_392"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I grew up with brothers and it was natural for them. I did, although, my<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_394">brother, my youngest brother was in the service and he learned electricity in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_395">the service, and he was here, he's upstairs, they're singing on that [referring</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_396">to church choir upstairs during mass]. He was fortunate because he was in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_397">Florida after he got out of the service and he was in a lot hot and he worked on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_398">the first missile that went up to the moon. [Stutters] Because he was working on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_399">the electrical parts of that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_400"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow, that's crazy.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_402"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>He used to in the Air Force, his job was, he was named, since he was the one<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_404">that fixed the planes, that take care of them. When the service. This was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_405">already-- And believe it or not, that he still is what they call it, you can't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_406">say that quarantined, that's not the word for it, you can't tell what you were</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_407">doing. He can't talk about the things, even today, and he was in the service in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_408">the fifties, so you talk about, so he, the things that he did, he can't talk about.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_409"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_411"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Now you said you're very active in the church community, you went to<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_413">catholic school. Did you always have a strong presence of religion in the household?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_414"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I had, my parents were faiths. We had a situation with my parents because<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_416">my, for my parents, religion came first, nationality comes second. And many</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_417">years ago, I was real small, I don't remember. But my mother was saying, they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_418">started the Orthodox Church- Ukrainian. And they&nbsp;and so my relatives are there.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_419">And they wanted my mother and dad to go, and my mother and dad were Catholic,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_420">and we don't go there. And, it was so bad that they were even shooting at the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_421">house. In fact, my mother says that one time the bullet came almost, almost hit,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_422">and it was by her leg, by her foot. And they came to the house because they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_423">were-- But my parents knew that religion came first. Uhh, don't get me wrong, my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_424">mother and father were, they're very good people. They enjoyed life, they were</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_425">not the ones that prayed all the time, you know.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_426"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>They lived life. They had a good time, they enjoyed, my dad enjoyed the<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_428">holidays, and they did things happy. We enjoyed, and happiness on that. But we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_429">had certain things that we had, just like [stutters]. Things are a little looser</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_430">now than we did. When I was, when we were young, you, they did not use an</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_431">ironing board, iron on Sunday. That was that. No washing, no nothing. We had on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_432">that, and my folks would not put up with that. No way.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_433"></span><span></span> <p><strong>BC</strong>: Were all the stores closed on Sundays back then too?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_435"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>All the stores were closed on Sunday, and the only, even-- the only thing<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_437">that were open is that movie theaters, you could go to the movies. There was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_438">nothing really. And long time ago, they used to visit, Sundays. We used to go</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_439">visiting with the family, go visit. You just spent Sunday visiting other parts</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_440">of the relatives. You became closer because everybody knew each other, and it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_441">became like one family, you know.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_442"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's nice.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_444"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, we used to go, in fact when my brothers and all lived here, we used to<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_446">go from my house to the other then we have-- In fact, yesterday, we had a party.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_447">My great niece sixteenth birthday. We had a big party in the hall for her. So</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_448">that's a lot of people who didn't make it to church this morning for the first</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_449">one (Laughing).&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_450"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's so nice. So, would you say religion and family are tied?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_452"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Very much. And one of the things that i have to say is we always had at<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_454">least one meal together.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_455"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's so nice.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_457"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>You work all day but usually supper time you had one meal together.&nbsp;</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_459"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, would you say you passed on, you know, this love for religion to your<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_461">own children?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_462"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pardon?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_464"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Would you say religion's important with your own family and your own<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_466">children and stuff?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_467"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I says, I am. I say I'm very, with all the things. I have just three of them<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_469">left. And my, all of them that died, they all received their last rights before</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_470">they died.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_471"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, whatever they did on there. And then I have a brother-in-law that-- I<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_473">have several brothers-in-law that died on that because, I says, my, I say five--</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_474">I have sister. My sister had two husbands that, Pauline. Her first husband was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_475">killed, and she was married again, and she had six children after that, and then</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_476">my sister that's in California, her husband also died. So out of the things, I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_477">have sisters-in-law, but [stutters] brothers-in-law, I don't really have any.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_478"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Did you teach Ukrainian to your own children?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_480"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I have no children. I'm the only one that's not married.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_482"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_484"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>But I'm gonna tell you something. I'm glad. First of all, I was able to do<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_486">things that they (her siblings) couldn't. I am very artistically inclined. And I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_487">used to do things that they couldn't and so-- In fact, the Easter eggs, I was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_488">the one that taught them in the parish how to make them. And I learned from</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_489">books. I'm very good from learning-- I don't have that now, but I can, but I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_490">could, I read books I could do. I did a lot crochet. In fact, my wedding bread,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_491">my sister-in-law came to me. She wanted a wedding bread for my niece, for her</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_492">daughter. I never seen one. She brought me pictures and I, God gave me a gift</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_493">that I was able to do those kinds of things. But I have, I had forty-two nieces</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_494">and nephews, and I only have one nephew and one niece that died. All the rest of</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_495">them of them are living. That's not counting great and great-great. She's a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_496">great-great already. And I don't even know how many great-greats that I have</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_497">because there's so many.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_498"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>God Bless. Do you have any family back in Europe or--</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_500"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yes.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_502"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_504"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yes, there's cousins over there, on, right there. And then I have some<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_506">cousins that are in Ukraine because they were kicked out of Poland during WWII,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_507">that they ended up in Ukraine. And we had a special privilege. Uhh, my brother,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_508">my oldest brother in, and there was seven of us that went. My nephew's wife's</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_509">sister was getting married and they were in Poland, so he went with his two</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_510">children, my sister-in-law and my brother, the parents, and I went. We went to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_511">the wedding over there, on there.&nbsp;So, as I say that, uhh, it was a very</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_512">privileged to see this was during, I told you during the communist times on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_513">there. And we find out (coughs) the difference in the families in all that we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_514">were very grateful on that. See how people live there. And I says I, they were</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_515">shown things that were different from what they had. We were very fortunate</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_516">because they already at that time had, like a, bathrooms. They had bathrooms in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_517">the house. They had bottled gas, which was on the stoves. The only thing they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_518">had were the outhouses and the worst part that we had is that where we stayed,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_519">they, the wedding was, they had to hire a cook to do that. He was cooking right</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_520">next to a whole pile of manure (Stutters). And working in the grove, and they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_521">had a make-shift kitchen. Between the barn and the house. It was-- things out.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_522">And I got-- I don't have the pictures now, my nephews got it. I took pictures in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_523">there and the one wall was so full of flies that you would, you would think that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_524">it was pepper. I'm not exaggerating.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_525"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_527"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And what they did which we didn't like is that they used to make soup, but<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_529">they didn't bring it in a pot to the house. They brought it in their bowls, two</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_530">flies in that one, one fly in that one (Laughs). They brought them in there. I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_531">had a difficult time on that. And the water, as I said, the part with the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_532">water-- We couldn't use the water because the water was from the wells that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_533">right next to-- they had manure piles and that all went down. They--you know</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_534">what, we don't appreciate the laws we have in this country.&nbsp;</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_535"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yeah.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_537"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Because you can't have uhh pump, a water pump next, water by the well, by<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_539">uhh well there's things, you know, there's any kind of, all those you have to be</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_540">so far away. We didn't appreciate until we went there. And then in the towns it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_541">was worse, don't forget. I worked in a grocery store. Everything was, you know,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_542">things you have to be very careful. You come over there to store, they have the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_543">doors wide open and then there's a table, like a double stand. They had beef</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_544">there, pork there, everything. The same flies that visited the privy visit the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_545">food. And I had a very difficult time with that because, I gotta say, because I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_546">grew up, we had beef, you know, clean. In America, we're very fortunate for that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_547"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Mhmm, wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_549"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Have any of your relatives come to America?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_551"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Oh! I started to tell you when we came back from America I have a cousin<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_553">that was here, he died already but he was going because that's my mothers, my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_554">mother's son, my mother's sister's son and he was going back to the village</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_555">where we were. So, he called my brother up, my brother mike, and he asked if we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_556">wanted to give money. So we went through the list of all the people that we met</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_557">down there, and we made a list get money both my brother and I went together and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_558">he gave it to the people, then he got a letter back and they did a very nice</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_559">thing cause they sent that money with an invitation to all the relatives that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_560">they had in there, in Ukraine because they didn't have back and forth all the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_561">time so they did not see those relatives, that means first cousins and all, they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_562">didn't see them since World War II. SO that money we were very grateful that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_563">they used to get the family together. That was the first time that they've seen</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_564">it. We felt very good for that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_565"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's amazing! Nice happy ending.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_567"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So what year exactly were you born?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_569"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I was born in 1933. My oldest brother was born in 1913 so 20 years<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_571">difference. Almost, we're only a couple of weeks apart. He was born November 16</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_572">and I was born December 7th.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_573"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wait so your dad came in 1914, you said.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_575"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pardon?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_577"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Your dad came in 1914, you said?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_579"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yeah, the second time yeah.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_581"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>So, was your brother born in Ukraine?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_583"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yeah, he was four months old. See that's right. And my dad did not take my<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_585">mother he wouldn't take my mother. First time he came here he was like a year</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_586">almost without a job we had relatives here that said I used to wash dishes and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_587">stuff like that but for him to get a job he was afraid to bring family on that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_588">to come here. So that was why he came back the second time and that's my dad.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_589">But my mother had house was there my aunt the one that we went to when we went</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_590">back to Poland and we saw my mother's sister that was the last one of the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_591">relatives we went to see her and she lived in that house where my dad was, but</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_592">right on the hill my mother she had her own house so she lived with my mother</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_593">while my dad was married to her.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_594"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Now, would you say your parents identify themselves more as Americans?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_596"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>They never have, they considered them, I was considered themselves, yes but<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_598">they had respect. Let me explain another way. You're born in America and you</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_599">live here for 20 years just an example. So, when you move to France you're not</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_600">going to talk about childhood in France because you didn't live it there, so you</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_601">have to live it where you were born. So, they talk about old things, but because</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_602">they were born there, and they think of it, but as for that I told you that they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_603">had no desire to go even and visit. They liked America. Very, very, very content here.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_604"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Do you have any interesting stories from Ukraine that you remember?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_606"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>I Umm I have to think about for that--Well I will say that I find that the<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_608">people and we went, and this was in Poland when we went there, my sister in law</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_609">had two sisters that were in Ukraine.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_610"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_612"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>My, her great grandmother was born in America here in, in, in Oliver, that's by<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_614">Scranton. And when she was 3 years old, her parents moved back to Europe. So,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_615">when she was there she was there until she was 19 and then she came to America</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_616">she was American born she had no problems on that. The part is it that she</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_617">already she had difficulty in American language and my brother was born there</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_618">but he had better in the English language. But things were kind of bad, she had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_619">2 sisters in Ukraine and she did not when we were there did not there go to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_620">Ukraine because it was still under communism this was before this was 1985</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_621">before communism broke--</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_622"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Right.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_624"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And we had 2 children with us and my nephew's wife was from there. She just<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_626">got her uhh papers that she was American they call it the card that she's</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_627">American citizen which she's American citizen now. She got her citizen thing,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_628">but we got the papers on Friday, and we had to make the decision on Monday that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_629">we are going because we had to make the you know your plane reservations and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_630">all? And I say that we didn't there go because she was afraid that if we went</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_631">visit and they're not gonna start World War 3 again you know for something like</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_632">that. It was scary and one of the things we had people were kind of livery of</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_633">Americans over there at the wedding. But on the last night that we were there we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_634">all, they had people there must have been like 15/20 people that came to the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_635">house where we were, that was strange of all. One of them was my sister in laws</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_636">half-uncle and he was in prison for 10 years for things that were going on and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_637">they were talking about things how it was bad over there and they told it on the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_638">last day because they knew that nobody would hear it because the next day we are</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_639">leaving because you know what we went one of my, my, my, my nephews wife's god</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_640">parents were there and they owned the bakery.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_641"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_643"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And they asked us not, we spoke, when we were there, when we were in public,<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_645">we spoke only English. And she asked us not to speak in Ukrainian in there</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_646">because they're gonna take reprises on that because they were Ukrainian you had.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_647"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_649"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Yes, it was bad, it was bad on that. My mother says that before 1918 the<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_651">Ukrainians and the polish people got real got along good. They used to celebrate</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_652">according to Christmas according to the Julian calendar. So, they used to come</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_653">to ours and on the 25th ours used to go back and the intermarriages you know</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_654">there was no problem. But once world WWI came, then politics came in. And see</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_655">and politics that come in and that's when the trouble start. Ukrainians had it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_656">very bad in Poland at that time. They're not that now, they're better now, but</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_657">at that time under communism it was bad. You could not admit that you were</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_658">Ukrainian. You had to speak, and they had a say at just how bad it was there was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_659">a Ukrainian church and it wasn't even catholic, it was orthodox and my nephew's</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_660">sister in law was getting married. And she was getting married in a church</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_661">there. But they had to go in because they used to use it as a barn they had all</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_662">the things, they had to clean everything out, they did not let us have any</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_663">electricity or anything while were having the marriage. So, you're talking how</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_664">bad things were, you had to be very careful on that. And when we went to visit</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_665">my sister in laws 2 aunts, we went to visit one and uhh her son in law was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_666">polish, and he didn't know that we understood Polish, so he was coming in saying</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_667">"What are they doing over her? What do they want here?" and all that. And after</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_668">we stayed a while they found out that we are relatives and we that's not the way</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_669">we are changed attitude but they're and it was afraid, you could not do on the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_670">street on that thing and a lot of stuff this food was bad, and everything was on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_671">the black market you know, you had to get things on there. And if you wanted to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_672">go we were, the bride, that was a funny part there. Bride and groom get married</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_673">in America you go on a honeymoon, right? Not there. They drove us all around</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_674">Poland visiting everybody, he had a van and his job he was a mechanic but they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_675">he lived now came to America but hat another story I have to tell you. They're</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_676">in America now and they're in -- can't think -- in Tennessee, I think, it is my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_677">nephew's sister-in-law, she's a professor, she teaches Russian in a college and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_678">he is a mechanic, but he has but he has the thing that most expensive cars what</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_679">are they? I can't think of the name.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_680"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>A sports car?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_682"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pardon?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_684"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Like a sports car?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_686"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>The name of it the real car that they have, he was the one that works on<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_688">them because that's what he did over there, he was a mechanic, so he got a good</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_689">job. But how they got to America. Things were very bad, they went on a tour, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_690">they went visiting another country and they did not stay they did not go back</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_691">with the filler they went to Germany and they were on a thing, and they didn't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_692">know for 2 weeks they didn't know how they were gonna get because they had to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_693">find out to get away they had to go underground to get things, my nephew sent</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_694">money that they were able to get but they had 2 weeks where it was very bad,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_695">they didn't think they were gonna live. But they had to sneak out of the country</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_696">because they didn't allow going to America.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_697"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_699"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's so crazy!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_701"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well you can't believe it unless you live it. I said that I find going there<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_703">has made a complete different opinion of what I thought it was. My parent's--</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_704">oh, funny thing. We went there, and my dad used to talk about a beer garden.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_705">They talk about it, so we came over there and we saw that beer garden; it looks</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_706">like an American outhouse. It was so small! I said you wouldn't think it was, so</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_707">you think something, and you picture, and it was completely different. I'm</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_708">fortunate that we went to see the places that my parents used to talk about. We</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_709">were next to it, we had a bad thing happen to us when we were in Poland is</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_710">because my friends don't live too far away from the San River. And we were going</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_711">to see some relatives on the other side and there, very few places have bridges</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_712">only in the big towns, and they have these floats that you drive on, and they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_713">wait on there and the drive you over on your car and everything, they pull you</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_714">over on the other side so you can go. That's most places how you cross. Yeah!</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_715">You don't know.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_716"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Is it like a ferry?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_718"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>For one car?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_720"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Flat thing and you have that floats, wood on that, so you have on there. And<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_722">what was bad, it was very dry that year in Poland and one of the guys that was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_723">swimming near this nest thing, he tried to go underneath the thing while we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_724">we're going on and he didn't make it out, he drowned. So, we went to visit the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_725">relatives, we came back, and we couldn't use it because they had it closed off.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_726">And I hate to say it; his body was still there on the side because we had to go</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_727">like 15/20 miles down on a bridge to go across on that. So those were the things</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_728">on there. When we went what was an interesting part since you are catholic it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_729">will be interesting, there was a miraculous church, the first one, a Ukrainian</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_730">church that was built in Poland, and it was, and my sister in law lived not too</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_731">far away from there and we went there, and you couldn't believe. You think this</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_732">hill is bad? I have a heck of a time walking. You can't drive up there, I had a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_733">stick we were all walking and the beautiful church there, there were no services</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_734">at the time there, and on that. And they had one of the, we have icons in the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_735">church as you see. And one of the icons in the altar was missing, and they said</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_736">that when the icon comes back, that the church will reopen. Well that church now</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_737">is reopened but it is the oldest church in Ukraine.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_738"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_740"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And what happened during WWII, that church used to have a copper roof on it,<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_742">and when the Germans came, they wanted the roof, copper. So, they asked some of</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_743">the villagers, thinking nobody would but they got somebody from another village,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_744">a couple of guys on there to take the roof off. Well, they start taking the roof</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_745">off, and they died. Not only did they die, but their families did too. So, they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_746">got written in a thing on that, and they went into the cornerstone of that, what</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_747">was written in there. The government had to go and replace the roof because it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_748">was in the thing that they couldn't touch that. I'm not telling you, but I knew</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_749">the people that it happened to you know, you go there. So, things used to happen</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_750">like you don't really realize, on that. But the church was beautiful, icons.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_751">Would you believe I took pictures and I wish I could show you because I have a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_752">lot of pictures, but they had icons on all the frescos, and they're still there.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_753">And they were good enough that I was able to take pictures on that. They had no</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_754">lighting in the church or anything. But in the dark, no sunlight or whatever it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_755">was up on the hill, in the woods like, beautiful place where it was on that. But</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_756">that was I think the most interesting thing we were able to go see.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_757"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Can you speak a little bit about the church here? You said you were one of<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_759">the oldest members--</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_760"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Ok then--We belong to a church which now is Holy Spirit, part of it. Well,<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_762">got to go further. A bad thing happened. We came to America and my dad came the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_763">first time, they were blessing St. Michaels over the church -- it's still there.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_764">But, they built the church in 1904. We had no eastern right bishops in America,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_765">so the attorneys didn't know how to legalize it. So, what they did is they made</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_766">it a corporation; president, secretary, and treasurer had to be in church. So,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_767">they had it ok on that. But see, in that church it was not only Ukrainians, it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_768">was mostly Ukrainians and then there was Ruthenians, like Holy Spirit. They had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_769">the same liturgy we had, but their customs-- that's just like English, England</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_770">and America they're different. So, we wanted our own on that. So, what happened</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_771">is that after WWII, after WWI, Russia started having communism, and they started</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_772">having influence and some of the people, especially the ones that were</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_773">Ruthenians, they were for the Russians. So, what happened is that they had an</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_774">election of the new officers for the church, they got there people, and they had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_775">a filibuster. The Sunday after that, they talked and talked until the people got</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_776">sick and they went home, and then they elected their own people into that. So</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_777">then they confronted the priests and they wanted to do things their way and the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_778">priests could not accept it that way, so they took them to court. So, just one</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_779">step backwards. In 1905, the first bishop, eastern right came to United States.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_780">His name was Ortynsky (Stehen Soter Ortynsku), he was Ukrainian. He blessed the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_781">church, everything, it was legally everything complete. But, when they went to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_782">court, because it was under laws of corporation, they lost. So that's why that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_783">church, I was baptized there on that. In 1939, and my mother said it was a very</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_784">sad day because when they lost they had to, there's a little building on the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_785">corner of Glenwood avenue and --Downs avenue. It was a building, it was like a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_786">cellar and my mother says that they had a precession with the communion from St.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_787">Michaels. I'd say it's about 10 blocks, they preceded it to that church. So we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_788">had the two churches together. So during, this was 1939, it must have been like</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_789">1941 I think around there. We had a mission in that church, but the mission that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_790">we were given were Brazilian fathers, which was Ukrainian. So they had it and we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_791">had a man that used to be a letter writer. He used to write to the bishop</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_792">everywhere he went, we wanted the Ukrainian church here. So when they came in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_793">for the mission, he talked to them, and they said "well we're gonna look into</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_794">that." So, in 1944, and I remember the date it was in September of 1944, he came</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_795">to my brother's house. Now, mind you during the war, my entire family lived up</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_796">to my brother's house. My brother had house, in fact that she lives in there</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_797">(referring to her great-grandniece that was also getting interviewed at the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_798">time) has twenty-two rooms!</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_799"></span><span></span> <p><strong>Both</strong>: Wow!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_801"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>It's a grid so nineteen of us lived there. So the priest, he came with the<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_803">priest and he said that we have a priest, we have a church, and this is our</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_804">pastor. And what got me is that when he spoke, he spoke the same way we did in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_805">the house. It was not dialect on that. So we had a protestant church that they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_806">bought in the hall that they bought that they had on there. And as I say, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_807">going on, and after the war there was not that many, like sixty families to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_808">start with, but then when WWII was over, the people started coming, this was the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_809">only Catholic Ukrainian church in the area so they came here. We have in fact an</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_810">awful lot of people who are from Europe-- even the younger ones, I mean they got</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_811">remarried but they were from Ukraine. So, it was around 1970 we already had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_812">enough money to start building the church. I remember in the old church they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_813">used to, in fact the fathers got the architectural sketch and what the church is</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_814">supposed to look like. So it was as you entered it that church was there for</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_815">five years. So it came time that we had enough money we're gonna build a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_816">church--can't build it. Because there was a steel crunch. No can build,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_817">everything was all steel. So, they're making they had the church committee, in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_818">fact and my brother was one of them that was on the church committee on the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_819">building committee so they going "what should we do?" So one of the other men</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_820">that was on the committee says "well how about a wooden church?" So that's the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_821">alternative. So, I went I was one of them that went to Glen Spay, they're a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_822">small church there's hunter, there's two churches that were wooden. So my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_823">brother, my oldest brother Mike he used to work for a lumber company and he</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_824">wanted to go and see a church because he wanted to find out what are the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_825">problems of a wooden church you know? You don't know. So we come in there and we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_826">were very impressed and they --we had to find an architect that was from Europe,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_827">and we had his name was Osadca (Apollinaire Osadca, [1916 - 1997],</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_828">Ukrainian-American architect) and he come in there and we had a, I can't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_829">remember all of the names of the architects and all that that worked with that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_830">but he had he drew the plans and then, the inside of the church we had local guy</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_831">that had--local umm what's the name, builder that had people that were crafty</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_832">they were specialists and things, in fact they didn't even belong to the union</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_833">and the union could not do anything because they didn't have the workers that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_834">could do this kind of work. So they got the things on there, and then we had one</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_835">man that was from Europe that built the inside, the icons, the screen and all he</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_836">was sick, and in that he built the icon screen for that, so we were very</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_837">fortunate. But if he did not--there never was a steel crunch in the United</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_838">States as I remember and it never--since before then or since then, but it was</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_839">just at that time. And if it was not for that, our church would not have been</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_840">here, this would not been here. So it was like a--the church, god wanted our</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_841">church here. And we've had people here from all over the world we have a ledger</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_842">in church and it's not very big but this is already like the second one they had</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_843">from that place and our church opened in November of 1977. A strange part about</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_844">our church is that our church started in 1944, this one was built in 1977, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_845">our hall was built in 1988 so it seems that the double numbers are all for our</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_846">church on that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_847"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Maybe it worked out for the best because this church is very beautiful.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_849"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>We're very happy on it. When I remember they were building the Orthodox<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_851">Church, its down I don't know if you could see it you can see it if you go down</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_852">the street this way. When I went there inside naturally we went to see it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_853">because it was Ukrainian of course you'll go see it. And I was thinking "boy, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_854">could not, we could never get anything that would be nicer than that." And turns</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_855">out, that we got the thing, and our church has been on television, and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_856">newspapers you name it, all over the world if you'd have that. We've had people</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_857">come down here in fact, one day I came in because I was working in the church I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_858">used to, when I was young do a lot of cleaning and stuff that was you know a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_859">job. Came in and a guys out here and I said "What are you doing here?" he says</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_860">he was from Ohio and he wanted to ask if he could see the inside of the church.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_861">He says well I'm looking into, we want to build a wooden church he'd like to see</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_862">the church. So people all over are very interested. And as I say they've been</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_863">from all countries, you can't believe the countries that we've had, people that</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_864">come to visit us.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_865"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Maybe you're starting a trend!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_867"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well you know what, well the first 15 years when the church was thing, they<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_869">used to have busloads. My sister lived down the street and anytime they used to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_870">go down there and my brother in law had to open the church if father wasn't here</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_871">to open the church for them to see. But we had busloads of people that came to</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_872">see the church.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_873"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>That's impressive! Now umm I see there's a lot of umm decorations around<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_875">here so it's not just the church services that bring people together there's</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_876">more parts of it?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_877"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well, we have where the project is that we're active, we have dancers. So<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_879">they have on that, so they have -- all the traditions. Our weddings are</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_880">traditional I says that on that things on there. So everything is on and they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_881">are, and we have to work, we are very fortunate because one of our pastors went</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_882">to Florida church and they said they had Friday dinners. So he came up here and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_883">festivals, not festivals, bazaars. So he came up, and that's when we started, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_884">started to have making, first it was only the pierogis on that they sold. And</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_885">then he got Friday dinners, and we in fact we just had the festival was just--</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_886">day before Palm Sunday the day before and on that. We made very very good, we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_887">wouldn't be able to keep the church without that, God's very good to us because</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_888">we're making very good money to be able to upkeep. We can't--we had to replace</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_889">the roof on that. And we were able to pay for it full, they did all driveways,</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_890">everything they had to do we had the money, but we had to work on it. We don't</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_891">have money out of our own pockets but we worked for it. And they did too!</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_892">Because when we come in there--if you come in there on when they have Friday</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_893">dinners, the young ones are serving just like the things they have to do just</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_894">like they got their job we got schedules everybody does their jobs. I come in on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_895">Tuesday because I come in Tuesday we make the golabki. On Wednesday morning I</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_896">come in and make the pierogis. We have a schedule for everything for the whole</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_897">week. We have a group that comes in there that hard boils the cabbage. We have a</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_898">group come in there a guy come in there, couples that peel the onions, and we</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_899">have a group that have to get the eyes out, chop the potatoes up for the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_900">pierogis on that. We have somebody that has to see that all the stuff is brought</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_901">there on there. Then we have a guy that comes in a couple of them that come in</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_902">they pack the golabki and the pierogis they pack them on it. We got everything</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_903">all situated for everyday for that.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_904"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>DT</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>What is golabki?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_906"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Pigs in a blanket.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_908"></span><span></span> <p><strong>Both</strong>: Ahh!</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_910"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Golabki, that's what it is.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_912"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>And everyone does this in their free time?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_914"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>This all for volunteer, and they do it for all that. And I say that they<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_916">come in and then they have on Tuesdays they come in the young people they and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_917">father has catechism and they have dance practice on Tuesdays. And then a lot of</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_918">times they've been, dancers have appeared in a lot of other places so they have</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_919">to have extra dancing on that. We've been fortunate we've had dancers from all.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_920">It was fortunate for us that when the people start coming from Ukraine and they</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_921">were in concentration camps, you know in camps? All the Ukrainians came in there</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_922">so what they did is what were they gonna do? There was professors and stuff on</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_923">there, so people went to school. We had, they had choirs, they had dancing and</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_924">everything and people learned! Things on it in there. My sister in law, my</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_925">sister in law her father was a school professor a--the head guy in the school--</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_926">the principal in a high school that's what he had in Europe on that so, and then</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_927">so we were fortunate on things like that. So anything else you need to know, on that?</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_928"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well our time is running out, is there anything else you want to tell us?</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_930"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well I think we about covered whatever on that, everything on there. I can't<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_932">think of anything that would be on there--as I said we're very fortunate we can</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_933">keep up in there and we're very fortunate to have father, father is very good if</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_934">not for father, father's a business man.</span></p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_935"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>He goes on television, you'd be surprised--one of my niece's brother in-law<span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_937">says that he would make a good politician because when he goes, he goes to TV</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_938">station they love him over there, he very good with people on that and things.</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_939">So we're very fortunate. And what's very good to is we do get along with all the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_940">other churches like there's not a lot of things. I don't know if they have it</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_941">anymore, but they used to have--in the city they had a group that used to go</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_942">visit the golden dome churches. So they used to go from church to church to see</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_943">all the different. In fact they didn't come every year but they would come over</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_944">here and father would explain things on it. And what happens when we have a--our</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_945">bazaar, father has to go and people come they want to see he has to go to church</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_946">and explain that the different things we have in church on there. I understand--</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_947">like your point because you're Latin rite? I grew up in the Roman Catholic</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_948">because I went on that. We didn't know I was already on 12th year when the</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_949">church started. So mostly, I went to first holy communion on the Latin rite</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_950">because there was no place for us to go, it wasn't here. And I know more about</span><span>&nbsp;</span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_951">the Latin rite than I do about our rite on that, so--</span></p> <strong><span class="transcript-line" id="line_952"></span></strong> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>BC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Well, thank you so much for your time.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_954"></span><span></span> <p><span class="speaker"><strong>AC</strong>:</span><span>&nbsp;</span>Hey, you're welcome.</p> <span></span><span class="transcript-line" id="line_956"></span><span></span> <p>(End of Interview) &nbsp;&nbsp;</p> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann B. Czebiniak Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Czebiniak, Ann B. ; Comuniello, Briana ; Tenbus, Drew Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Ann B. Czebiniak is a first generation Ukrainian American who was born in Johnson City, NY, and worked for IBM. She is not married but has a large extended family. She is a member of Ukrainian Catholic Church and resides in the Southern Tier with her family. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AnnCzebiniak.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-07-07 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 62:00 Subject The topic of the resource Czebiniak, Ann.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Russian; Poland; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/30c618a53d0a06f84348e0577494274a.MP3 eb5ff021c35eb0ee83efbb42cb2b4002 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Biographical Text Irina Kirichuk was born in Kurganinsk, Russia and moved to Ukraine when she was 3. She is of Russian, Ukrainian, and Armenian ancestry.&nbsp; She is hearing impaired. She came to the United States in 1993, works as a hairstylist, and lives with her family in Binghamton. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jonathan Gurewich and Andrea Esposito Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Irina Kirichuk Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 59:45 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-11 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Kirichuk, Irina. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Armenian; Russian; Ethnic identity; Ethnic--food; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=IrinaKirichuk.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Russians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Binghamton (N.Y.); Deaf ; Hairstylists Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Irina Kirichuk Interviewed by: Andrea Esposito and Jonathan Gurewich Interpreter: Dee Davis Transcriber: Andrea Esposito and Jonathan Gurewich Date of interview: 11 April 2016 at 3:30:00 PM Interview Setting: Bartle Library, room LSG 552 at Binghamton University, Vestal, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Andrea Esposito: Okay, it's recording--Um, so if you wouldn't mind just stating your name and where you were born if you don't mind. Irina Kirichuk: Okay, sure, my name is Irina my last name is Kirichuk I was born in Russia the name of the town is Kurganinsk. It is a small town, and then when I was three years old we moved to Ukraine and I grew up there in a big city called Kiev, and four hours up from there was a small town called Berdychiv. It's a small town. AE: So you grew up in Berdychiv or Kiev? IK: Uh, actually I grew up in Berdychiv. It's like here, it's kind of like New York State. You know how you have upstate where the small towns are. AE: Mmm that kind of what it was like. It's almost the same idea. Jonathan Gurewich: And uh, as a kid did you spend a lot of time with your parents? Did you um-- IK: I spent a lot of time with my parents and my grandmother. And I have two neighbors who are Russian, and another one on my father's side of the family. My mother's side of the family there were some and my father’s side of the family had Russians and then also my father had Ukrainians who had escaped and gone to Russia. And so that is how I was born there in Russia, and then we moved to the Ukraine. AE: Um, so could you tell us about um why they like escaped? Um, to go to Russia? IK: My mother-- I don't remember exactly. My mother had told me the story when I asked and it was a little confusing, but my mother had a different last name, and I said it wasn't, it didn't seem apart of Russian, and my mother explained to me that the family was from Armenia and then the family all moved because of the war. And it just got very messed up so they escaped and moved to Russia, and then that's how she met my father. My father had been in the army. She met him and then she was pregnant with me. And I was born there in Russia and when I was three then we moved to Ukraine because my father had a lot of family there on his side. They begged him to move there. My mom also had a big family in Russia, so where should we go? They decided to move to Ukraine, but every year they would visit the family members who were in Russia. So we'd go back and forth, but I love the Ukraine side of the family more. I don't know why. Why they picked Kiev, but I did. AE: Um, so at your visits to Russia what type of experiences did you have there versus in Ukraine? IK: Oh-- hmm. Well, the two places were different. It was a beautiful city in Russia, and they spoke differently, but a little bit differently. There was a different, there were different words that they used. It was the same types of sounds, but their food was a little bit different also and I just felt as though. Ahh, people were cool (Everyone laughs). My family was cool; we both got along together in both countries really. So in both countries, so in Russia the world seemed different than Ukraine, and I picked Ukraine that I liked better. I don't know why Russia was nice, but it was more hmm, not at friendly, hmm didn't seem as friendly; their habits were more-- how should I say it-- For me, they seemed very strong but Ukraine seemed more friendly. You know like every time you saw someone they said good morning that was different than it was in Russia. So, stuff like that-- Russia wasn't bad, you know it was cool. It was a beautiful city. Everything was there but from my perspective; they were two different places, and I grew up until I was fourteen years old there, in Kiev. Or near Kiev and then I, we moved here, so, and every year I would fly there, to Russia and Ukraine, and just recently I went to Ukraine, but I couldn't fly to Russia because of the war and the problems that are between Ukraine and Russia now. So, I couldn't go visit my family even though they begged me and I told them I can't. So, my family in Ukraine had told me you really can't go there, and I decided myself that I would not go to Russia, so I was disappointed in that. It's not like I support one side over the other; I said I don't care about Putin leave him out of this I love the people and my family. That's all, so it was just different between the two places. AE: Um, so you said you couldn't go back to Russia, how long was that for, like um time period wise? IK: Now, this was just very recently, last December 2015 I flew to Ukraine to visit my family, but I couldn't go to see my family in Donetsk. I couldn't visit them because of the war, they were like right in the middle of it in Russia and I have a big family that I could have visited, but-- I, I, I can visit them because I have the birthright to get there, so there is no big deal for me to actually go there, but what if something were to happen while I was there and we discussed it with my family they were all concerned. They were all very worried. And my father said to me no, and so I respected what my father said to me so I didn't go-- And my Russian family members were upset and I told them, “Well once you get to some peace there then I promise that I will come visit”. So, hmmm. JG: So do you remember uh any activities that you would do uh that were maybe different, traditions that were different between your Russian side of the family and Ukrainian side of the family? IK: Oh yeah, they were very different traditions. Um, hmm, like for Easter the tradition was different we would always go to church and it would be overnight, and then they would make the holy water, and bless us, everyone there and have eggs and cakes and pierogis, and that was a tradition in Ukraine and also we had apples for celebration that was the tradition there. And Christmas time was you know January 7th, was the tradition of Christmas in Ukraine. In Russia it was December 25th for Christmas, but now before the tradition had been the same but it changed around. And, let's see the differences here Russia, now understand that Russia we never followed the tradition there because my grandmother's traditions were from Armenia and my mother, my grandmother and mother came from Armenia so there was that and I was a little bit confused because it is Armenian is it Russian is it Ukraine? I couldn't figure out which one it was. On my father's side of the family they said you had to pick one and I said, but I love them all. I love all the traditions. It doesn't matter to me I love them all (Everyone laughs). I love all the traditions it doesn't matter to me I love them all, so I was just fascinated with everyone's tradition. So like the Armenian tradition was you must when we move to Russia you had to have nice clothes you had to have to show everything polite have food traditions that were handed down that had to be proper and all the family had to get together and stuff like that so. JG: So, when did you uh decide to come to America? IK: Well, I never thought about that it, was my mother who did she had made all the plans and my mother flew to Russia and filled out some forms there, and then my mother said to me we're going to, well we're planning to go the US and I was very excited I thought for a visit oh yay! We're going to the US I was so excited. Oh, I loved traveling and then my mom planned this, and something happened and we couldn't make it, and then my mom met. Bush's Father who was the president before. Dee: Oh, you mean the president before Bush? -- Yeah, yeah he was, he was George too. IK: My mother met George Bush and begged him to let us in and I remember I was very small and I met him, I didn't know who he was I didn't know he was famous and my mother said this man is from the United States and I said, “well, oh it's nice to meet you” (everyone laughs). I couldn't hear anything so I just shook his hand and my mother explained and begged him and said please let us come to the US, and he signed the papers; we needed to do that in 1993. So that's when we moved here, and then a few years-- I thought we would be here for a few years and then go back and my mother said no we're going to live here and I said what? I was so upset at that time I was very upset, but and plus I asked my mother why is it that we moved I don't understand why we moved; don't you like Russia, and she said no what she wanted me to see me have a good life for myself here because of being deaf there; were more opportunities here in the US. There are interpreters. In Russia and Ukraine, it is very different it is very different, it is very difficult there for deaf people it's more oppression by hearing people of deaf people there which means they tell you, you can't do this you can't do that and you don't have any freedom like you do here. Here, we have so many more opportunities to do whatever; it is you want and in Russia they tell you, you can't. Like I wanted to be a doctor and they said you can't be a doctor; you're deaf. Here I could've if I wanted to and so my experience. Here, there is a very good life here I could have a good job here, get good money here and earn a good living, but it's a little boring for me right here it's like well-- Let me explain a little bit um, good job, and family, and it's always like very family oriented. With uh in Russia you have good friends and family and you enjoy yourself so much, and once you're done with work you meet up with family and friends and do things and money is not so great. Would have been better there if we had the money with the family. For my perspective, I like Europe because it is more active, there are more things to do. You can keep busy, you can enjoy yourself. Here it's a little bit different. I think I've lived here for twenty- let me see here--yea, twenty-four years I've lived here. When I recently flew to Ukraine I was so excited to go there I know times have changed but I was still just thrilled to being, doing things and being there that time just flew for me. I was there just a week and I said there's no way! You know, I wanted to be there three weeks. I wanted more, it just seemed like not enough time, and here I feel like ehhhh, and (everyone slightly laughs). You know I try to be positive about things and keep busy and have my kids, do things with my kids. So it's a different feeling. AE: Um, you said that your first few years here you didn't want to be here like is there any particular reason why you didn't like America at first? Or-- IK: Well the first time when I moved here I didn't know how to speak English and I didn't know any American sign language so I couldn't communicate, and with my friends I felt like what do I do and my father told me just be patient give it a couple of years, two or three years and then we'll move back to Ukraine and my father said I promise and I said fine. So I was patient, I went to school it was a mainstream school it was not a deaf residential school it was a mainstream school so I went to the school and it was hard to try to lip read and try to learn English and every day I cried and I'd ask my teacher I don't understand can you repeat. And just went along for three years and after that my dad said are you ready to go back to Russia and I said yes dad come on let's go I was so excited I was jumping for joy, but for some reason something happened with my family to try to fly there and my sister was here as well and my mom stayed so it was just my father and I. So my mom wanted to stay in the US with my sister and I didn't want to I wanted to go back, and then I realized and my father said to me, we'll go visit if you decide that you want to stay, you want to move back we'll do that so we visited and realized wow I could see that--I decided I didn't want to stay I had to come back to the US because I, I, I don't know why it just hit me all of a sudden cause deaf people had warned me from Ukraine that you should stay in the US. Because they could see that I was happy. And they were grumpy all the time, and it's not that they were not happy before they were very frustrated with things they were very stressed; they didn't have enough money to pay the bills there was so much going on. There were problems with doctors and I realized that oh my goodness I asked my family and they'd say are you okay? And they said please you should go back. Visiting is fine, but living here is not good for you and I realized after came back I realized that I just have to stay positive and stay here. That was the same with my husband. I married my husband, he's from Ukraine, and he moved here and it was the same sort of thing he was very upset, he was not happy being here he didn't want to stay here he wanted to go back, and he begged me, and begged me and I promised him just be patient we'll see what will happen after one or two years. And I said now this is for me, it's for me, if you love me you should be patient to stay here for a while my husband said okay and he stayed and I felt bad, but I decided if you want to move back to Russia we will or the Ukraine. My husband decided no thanks, I can't, it would be better to stay here so we've been happy here ever since. It's just given me very much opportunity better life here than I could have there. Better job and for me being deaf in the community it was a good opportunity, I had interpreters I had everything I needed here and hmm-- it's just more free, like whatever I want I can do. There they were constantly telling me I can't do things. I tried to learn and they said no, you can't you can't do that you. They would limit me and now it is more free, but it is not as free as it is here, it's not. JG: So when your parents first came to the United States did they decide to come to Binghamton or did you move to Binghamton later? IK: No, Um, it's funny, the government had given us tickets for the family to move and because it was through the government's assistance they were giving this away to people who they would say here is where you have to go, and my mother did not know what it was and I was hoping to stay in New York City, that's what I was hoping because I had flew in there and I was just fascinated with that place I loved it so then we stayed at the airport to wait, and they had to check our names and make sure everything was in order, and there was a huge line of people and they'd said where are you going to be going and they told us we were going to Binghamton. So we got on the airplane, little teeny airplane and came here it was so small I had never seen anything so small, but um so we moved here. And we had an apartment, and they, we had everything, it was new because the government helped subsidize it for us and they had apartment, food, and clothes, everything was there the bed, it was furnished! So we were, I was really lucky. And my friend who just recently moved did not get an apartment had to do all of this for themselves, they had to look for themselves, they had to buy the food for themselves, like when I moved here in 1993 they provided everything to me, but now my friend who just recently moved did not get that. And immigration has become much harder it was easier uh when I came, but um and the government told me where to come and I came here and I've never gone anyplace else, I've always been in Binghamton the whole time. My life until I got married, my children were born here in Binghamton, so we're all here. Because I realized I wanted to go to New York City, and I'm realizing now that it's more quiet here it's more comfortable here, I can afford things better here than in New York City. New York is very expensive because I've asked my friends what do you think do you like life there and they said yea but we have to work so much to afford everything so I'll go traveling and have my enjoyment that way. AE: Um when you uh moved here what did your uh parents do for a living, was it hard for them to find a job or did the government help? IK: No, uh actually my parents moved here and started going to school. Yea my parents went to school they went to BOCES and studied English first of all to learn English, and then the government helped with everything, and my parents and my family for money they started, they gave us food stamps. Uh, we had Medicare we had all the assistance until my father was ready then. My father wanted a job, but he didn't know how to communicate in English yet, so my father got pretty grumpy about that. I think he studied for two years and then he started working from BOCES; he got work as a mechanic he would fix lights he was very happy with that. He went along with that, but he felt it wasn't enough, he wasn't satisfied. And I was in my school, just being in high school main-stream here and then a few years later they brought an interpreter for me, my father was working very hard and then went back to school because he wanted to study to be a truck driver, a long-haul trucker, so he was successful at that and now it's been about fifteen years, oh maybe seventeen years now he's been that kind of work. He's very successful, he's very happy. My mother never did have a job she stayed home and took care of her children, me and my sister, and my father was the only one who ever worked. And that was all-- And also we didn't have any family here me my sister my father and my mother just the four of us that was it when we moved here we didn't have any other family here, we didn't have any friends we started to build our group of friends, but in the start, at the beginning it was it was very we were very lonely, we were very grouchy, we didn't understand things. But then slowly things built up, and now I have many new friends, and my circle has just grown. And no other of my family has moved here, it's just been the four of us, and my father wants to try to bring my grandmother here and she doesn't want to. She wants to stay there she said my blood is in Ukraine period. This is where I stand. AE: Um, when you were building up your circle of friends did you find them to be more Ukrainian immigrant or people from just around Binghamton in general? IK: Well, actually I had friends from school from all over the world, Vietnam, Africa I met a lot of people. My first experience when I moved here, I had never seen colored people, people of color ever. Never ever, people from Vietnam, people who were black, people from the world I had never seen. I thought, I said to my father where are these people from their skin is black my father said because really in Ukraine and in Russia it was only white people we're all very the same, very homogeneous. And then I moved here and my jaw would drop you know, it's cold here you have to wear long sleeves and you know I had never seen this sort of thing like fruit in the winter we never had that, they have fruit here in the winter like I said how do you get fruit in the winter, how do you get strawberries in the winter, it's winter, how do you do that!? And my father said, well he was also shocked by this. Oh this stuff is good even though it was winter and there were all these things that were new to us, the clothes that we were weird, we had never seen things like this, my eyes were always popping out my head, you know, he'd say it's not nice to stare at people with your mouth open so close your mouth. Yea, but now I know how it is. And I have friends from Ukraine, there are a lot of people from Ukraine here, a whole lot of people and uh Russia too. So I've gone through becoming friends with them chatting with two of the Russian church's they have, they have a Ukrainian church as well they have lots of different religions from Russia and they don't match me too much. And mine was its, O-R-C-H-E-N, Orchen was the name of the church, and that's the one that I had gone to and they have two languages, they would speak Russian, and they would speak English, it was better for me to help me learn. AE: So, you went to church when you were a kid and when you got older you stopped going or was it something else? IK: Hmm, Anytime, in Europe I would go to church any time whenever I wanted to, I could go or not go. Then when I moved here I went regularly it was every Sunday I went, and I was grouchy about that (everyone laughs). But I had to attend church until I said to my mom why is it I have to go to church, I don't believe in what they teach, and my mother said that's not nice to say, and I said I'm just being honest with you. I believe in Jesus Christ but the church is not helping me at all they tried to explain all these different rules and I feel like what are they. Because my grandmother, my grandmother had told me always you have to believe in Jesus Christ and one God, it's not the church, it's Jesus Christ and she would explain when they tell you these other things, blah blah blah -- All these different religions, different stories and my mother said it's called like a tree. It's like a tree, there's a catholic church, there's a Baptist church, there's all this and I'm not against them it's just my mother and my grandmother told me what's important is in your heart and talking to God and that's it. That's what I follow, so I was patient to go to church until I asked my parents and said to them. Because I can't hear or understand what they say anyway so I would stand around for nothing, it was very boring for me until they brought in an interpreter and then I was more inspired there because I could understand what they were talking about and the topics they were talking about it didn't matter if they were speaking Russian or whatever. I couldn't hear what they were saying, but I tried my best to lip read but it was very hard for me because the priest would you know moving around, couldn't read his lips as he was changing his position and it was until it was I was 1993, I graduated I stopped going to church after graduation. That's when I had stopped, then I went once and while for Easter services or Christmas or some sort of special event or if we needed to pray for my family or if there were problems with the war. We would go to church to pray for that, and I still have the faith. I'm never rude to people, I don't mean to insult anybody about church, just want to let you know. AE: No. JG: No, not at all, so overall how would how, how was your childhood influenced by your Ukrainian and Russian and Armenian heritage, and how did that uh come with you to America? IK: Hmm, good question. I grew up, I had a lot of experiences growing up and also I was confused and language was confusing, but I'm really very thankful to my mother and my grandmother for teaching me three languages-- I just grew up the same in all three places in Ukraine, Russia you know. I don't remember all of it. You know I was always playing outside a lot and did that sort of thing and learning how to communicate, but my family, my whole family knew that I was deaf, and so they would teach me a lot, every day they would teach me the three different languages and now I feel like I can speak all these languages, and my two kids as well are learning I'm teaching them as well too. Like how to speak those languages. DD: You mean-- let the interpreter make this clear, do you mean Ukraine--Ukraine and Russian? IK: Yes. JG: And have you ever visited, uh, Armenia, or have you ever engaged in your Armenian side of the family? IK: No I never have. I never visited there, but, it, I've never gone to visit. I've always visited Russia and Ukraine. It's been-- hmm-- I moved here and we would go back every year, and then I didn't visit for ten years and finally I just recently went in December. I flew there and I was very thrilled because I was so far behind seeing people and Ukraine has changed a lot because I haven't seen it in ten years! There were many changes there-- Yeah it's different now. It wasn't like it was when I was there, it's not like my Ukraine, I liked how it was before. Now with the changes-- Hmm-- It just feels like-- It's confusing, it's startling, because it's changed. Now they have mixtures of uhh people of color, people intermarry with people of color, so that's a big change. It's more expensive to live there now-- and people seem all grouchy all the time, it's like-- and I realize that, oh, I do not want to go back, I'll go to visit, and that's all, and that's just my opinion. Yeah, I don't want to go back. But, I do have a house there and I miss my family there, but just to visit, and see everybody and do that, and then come back here. When I came back home I missed it here so much it's like the opposite of how it used to be, I don't know. AE: Umm did you take your family with you, when you visited Ukraine recently, or? IK: No, I went by myself. I went by myself. Next year we're definitely going with the family. My kids have never been to Ukraine, my daughter's never been to Ukraine because it was ten years ago. My son was two years old, eh, or, no he was nine months old when we went, or, we went when he was nine months and eighteen months and he doesn't remember anything of that, so we've decided that next year, we are, I am going to go with my husband and my two kids and we've decided we are going to fly there to get this experience for them, to get this exposure for them. And also-- I'm hoping that Ukraine and Russia will have ended the war by then and they'll be at peace, so that we can go to Ukraine and then go visit Russia to Donetsk back home. I hope you know I'm hoping, I've I've promised my family we're going to go there. And, and also to go to my family in Armenia, my mother has a huge family there in Armenia, and-- and, also, some have gone-- to, to Israel and I've never visited there either-- so they keep saying, "when are you coming? When are you coming" I say I will-- but-- yeah-- my only tie is really to Ukraine, I feel pulled there, that's my favorite place. I don't know. Hmm. AE: You can go. JG: Have you been to other parts of Ukraine? Uhh, in other regions, maybe in the east, or the west? IK: Uhhh-- I have gone a lot to the east, in Ukraine, umm, hmm, the name of the town is-- Zhytomyr. It's a very small town, and I would go to Kiev, which is the big city, and also-- Lviv is a big city there as well, that is very strongly, Ukrainian, people's traditional dress, and it's more like the countryside-- it's more like the countryside-- so I've gone travelling there, and on my father's side there are a lot of people who live there-- in Donetsk, and also part of Ukraine also, so I've travelled to visit my family there, and also-- it-- let me see what's it called-- oh, Crimea-- also in the Crimea. Do you know about Crimea? JG: Yes. IK: Yes, that's, I went there, and that is part of Ukraine but it's already been stolen by the Russians. But yeah, and I would always travel in different cities, in different cities around big cities a lot, I would go to my father would always take me travelling with him, a lot. JG: And, when you would travel all over Ukraine did you notice a very big difference in the culture of these different places? Or was it mostly the same? IK: It was a little different-- like, the buildings would be different, the architecture, but it was the same food, it was the same clothing, but the buildings were different the churches were different they had different shapes in the different places. And also museums were a little bit different in the different places. And you know, cars would be different (laughs) sometimes they'd have the older cars that I'd never seen (laughs) before-- And the houses were beautiful, they were like, they looked like museums themselves. They were just-- I don't know what to say just amazing houses, and some I've I've never seen I said, "dad is that a museum?" he said, "No people live there." I said, "What, really? The house would look like a museum." He said "no really it's a house, really." But yeah, they're beautiful. And also-- they had an old house like from-- what would you call it-- uhh what's it called-- outside where they cut the plants, a house, where they it was like old fashioned, it was very fascinating that people still lived there, and I asked my father about this "Do you mind asking them?" because people don't understand me when I speak sometimes so I asked my father to ask,. He said "hey, my daughter wants to know how you live, how you protect yourself from the, oh, from the water coming through the roof that was made from plants?" And they would cut down trees and use this for their roofs and it was amazing to me, it was very old but still was working so it was very cool-- yeah. AE: Umm, did you travel other places besides Ukraine and Russia? IK: (long pause) Uhh-- yes I have gone to Poland, ummm where else-- Germany-- hmm where else-- Germany-- and well here I've gone to like the Bahamas the Dominican Republic, things like that, but in Europe, growing up when I moved here at 14, I moved here, so, what I'd done is more travel around the U.S. and in the U.S. I've gone to Puerto Rico, I've gone to the Dominican Republic; I've gone to the Bahamas, Mexico, things like that, on vacation. Always like during the summer. But, I still travel, I love traveling, I love learning about different places, I love all the differences of how they are and the different countries. Now last year were supposed to we were planning to go to-- Italy, we were planning to go to Italy but it never happened. IK: because everything got messed up, we had a lot of conflicts. So again we're hoping, we're hoping that we'll go sometime maybe during the winter we'll see. But, I, I really want to go to Spain. Yes, I, I have promised that I'm-- and so we'll see, we'll see when that will happen. Because my kids have school, and their sports and all that I can't ignore my kids I want to leave once they finish school we can go as a whole family. So-- AE: Umm, so, h- for your kids-- umm-- how have you been exposing them to-- the culture that you may have grown up with, or do you go, like, go more towards the American culture, or a hybrid of both? IK: I use both, we have a mixture of both that we teach them. Sometimes my kids will be like-- they'll find out something they'll see a picture they'll say that's really cool I've never seen a house like that and then I'll explain to them that it's like well that was like from my grandmother and grandfather's time you never met them they had died and they'll say if they had different clothes back then and I'll explain that, and the food, I explain about the food sometimes my husband and I still speak Ukraine at home. We and my kids will listen say what is that so we teach them that too, and always when we go out we speak English, but at home we speak Ukraine my husband and I talk abo- talk all the time in that and my kids don't if we don't want them to know some of the words sometimes-- We'll speak and they don't get it-- So I'll hide what I'm saying with my husband sometimes by them not understanding and also I'll speak to them and they'll understand but I want them to be able to speak back to me in it and they're not so good in that. They just know a little bit, of, of speaking back to me. If it's something difficult they can't do it, but uh I've been thinking of setting up, maybe, because I have umm my mother-in-law and my uncle, they're willing to have my children stay with them for three months during the summer and learn how to speak the language there so I've been thinking about that and uhh we have the food we have the culture sometimes though they'll ask me, "how did you meet dad? How did you meet?" And I said well he's from Ukraine and they love listening to that story they love hearing about other countries and also my father also explains to them as well, and he'll tell them about his experience and his history in Ukraine, and all that, because he had more experience than I did, so he can explain everything and my kids are just fascinated they'll ask him questions forever they're fascinated with this and then they say now how the toys are different than they are here they don't have these kind of dolls, like, different kinds of toys, and they'll ask my dad about that. And cars that are different, and I have dolls from I have twelve dolls and my kids would say wow why do you have them I've never seen these kinds of dolls and I would explain well this is is a tradition from where I grew up and it was cool. So now, I allow them to play with them. They've noticed the cars are different and-- you know, like, valuable silverware and cups and from Ukraine I show them and they say "oh so this is from Ukraine it's very decorative" it's like clothes also that have a lot of stitching on them from Ukraine, a lot of embroidery, and they say now why's that? And I say it's a tradition that they have in Ukraine for that. And sometimes they'll find something in school and say "hey mom look what I have there's a book from Ukraine it's talking about a story from Ukraine and they will read that a little more. And I've explained everything to them they ask me if they want to know I explain to them because they love it and sometimes I'll say to my father "can you explain to them in more detail about what they're asking (Andrea laughs) and they're just, huh, wrapped attention to him, and it's, I'm shocked how many questions they have about it and he always explains everything they ask, he's always done that he always explains and sometimes I try to bring them to church to see how it is-- how they have Ukrainian eggs, things like this Ukrainian art, at the church, things that are different and they'll say this is really cool oh these are all Ukrainian? I say yes they are they say why this is why they have the building this way because? And they have very popular wooden eggs and wooden spoons and things like this that they have in Ukraine. AE: Umm did family from Ukraine ever visit you at Binghamton? IK: No, hmm. We've tried, we tried to get a visa for them but it's not easy to do. So, we've tried, huh, we tried to bring them here we tried to bring family to visit and one problem, this biggest problem is the visa. I don't know why that is, you have to put down you have a job you have to fill out all this stuff and they still denied them a visa so I don't know why I don't know why there are many times; I think maybe about thirty times we've filled out a visa application so it's been every year and it's never been accepted, never been approved. And, so we're always the one's to go there and visit, and I don't mind, I don't mind, I'm not complaining about it, that's how it is. Also, they can't really afford to come here. Like for example, here if you have $100, there it's like 2,500, so, it's-- they work and they earn like $20 a month. So, there's no way they can afford coming here. Hmm. And it's uhh the different economy, we have very different economies-- many Europeans or Russian or Ukrainians want to come here and get jobs here to earn the money, they don't want to live here they want to get the jobs here, and-- (Dee clears throat) the problem is having no one can speak English. So-- and also, I'd ask my family how can you eat how can you afford to eat they said Well first we have to buy food we don't have anything left for clothes, or for their electronics things like that, but thank God that I'm here and this is good here and I always support them I will give my family things they need I will give them what I can what they need. AE: Umm what do you and your husband do for like employment here? IK: My husband-- well was laid off two years ago. He used to work for Pepsi he was the manager at Pepsi. And he was laid off. So I now am a Hairstylist and Cosmetologist, and I love it I love my work. JG: Have you always wanted to be a hairstylist? IK: Uhh umm when I was little, I'd would always go to the salon and watch and learn how they did things with nails and dream that when I grew up I could do this, but what I really wanted to do was become a doctor. That was my dream to become a doctor. And then, I was told no; you can't you can't you can't you can't. It's a long story but I decided to change and try for my second path, which was hair styling and I love it was really my dream, has always been to be a doctor growing up. I told my parents I want to be a doctor I want to be a doctor; I promise I'm going to be a doctor but then life just messed me up. Hmm. But, I love doing hair, I get to meet a lot of people, all the people who I work with know I'm deaf, they know I can speak somewhat, and, if they speak quickly I don't understand I have to say "can you slow down?" and then I understand them but uhh me and my boss, we get along very smoothly. Everything works out and the customers who come in works very smoothly we've never had a problem (knocks on table) and I have to knock wood after I say that. Of course! But I'm very happy with that. Now before, I had worked as a teaching assistant and this was for kids this was for three years and I had to quit that, and then, I went back to school, to study Cosmetology, and I've become certified and licensed and so now I have my job and I'm very happy with that. And before I-- just stayed at home and watched my children and my husband had worked for Pepsi for many years and once he was laid off he tried to find a job and he was unable to. So we're waiting to see if he finds a different job. AE: So how long have you been working as a hairstylist and Cosmetologist? IK: Ahh let's see it hasn't been long time, it was just recently let me see-- let me see-- hmm-- four months, four or five months four or five months-- hmm-- since licensed, since being licensed. AE: So, umm, you said it was a, uh, cool story about you and your husband met? So, like, you care to share? IK: Hmm, ok! I was here, and my best friend was getting married, and she sent me an invitation said you have to promise to come back to Ukraine for my-- to be the maid of honor for my wedding. And so I flew to Ukraine, and I stayed there for one month and a half. I stayed with my grandmother that time, and my grandmother was ill, also she had a stroke so I was taking care for her. I was going between her and my friend's house, and then my friend had her wedding, and I asked her who that guy is over there? And my best friend said "Oh my, he's a handsome guy!" I said yeah, but who uhh, do I know him?" "No you've never met him." "I said fine, but, that, was my husband." And my best friend said that they said to her, who is that girl over there? She said, she's beautiful. I said Well yeah, (all laugh) so that's kind of how it went. And I had a boyfriend already at that time, so, it just happened my best friend's wedding and I met him. We looked at each other it was very nice; we chatted and he spoke very fast and I said now uhh speak a little more slowly so that I can understand you. So that's where I met him at the wedding and then we just fell in love right away, it was very quick, and then-- he didn't know that I was from the U.S., because I didn't tell him, and he knew that I visited my grandmother all the time, he knew where I lived there with my grandmother every day he would come to visit and help and do that. And then, at the very end, we'd been dating maybe I'd say, oh, two months, no no no, two weeks, two or three weeks; we were dating, and I said to him, "you know I do have a boyfriend." He said I don't care; I do not care where's your boyfriend he's not here right? I said "Right! I just want to tell you the truth you don't care? Ok fine." So we dated, and-- he showed me around new buildings and things that I'd never been. So, I got to learn about these new places; I'd never visited before and finally I said goodbye I won't see you and he said what are you talking about you're teasing right? And I said no, I'm not! I won't see you again! This is it. And he thought I was joking. And I said no, I'm not joking I'm telling you the truth. And he said yeah right sure; I'll see you tomorrow and I said no, I'm going to be, going I'm flying away tomorrow and he said no no, I don't believe you, you're teasing so, he gave me a kiss I flew away. And, he stopped by my grandmother's house and says "where's Irina Where's Irina where is she?" she says well she doesn't live here she was just visiting she lives in the U.S. and my husband was shocked, but I had I had already told him he didn't believe me (Dee laughs) he thought I was teasing. So, ok fine. So, he decided to ask my best friend whose wedding I went to he said do you have Irina's address. Do you know how I can contact her? She said Well fine and she gave him my address, so he kept in contact with me he would write to me back and forth and while I was here-- the boyfriend I had here-- I mean-- it-- I really had forgotten about the man who's become my husband, I'd really kind of forgotten about him. I got his letter and I thought hmm-- who's that? Huh-- that name I don't quite remember. So, I, so I wrote to him I said "I'm sorry I don't know who you are" and he got very mad. So, then he sent me a picture and then I said, "huh it looks so unfamiliar, oh shit! Yeah I know who that is, yeah" So we kept in touch, we kept in touch, and, he told me he wanted to date me he wanted to keep in touch and it happened that my grandmother became sick again; we were very worried and my father was supposed to fly there but he couldn't make it. He had to work, he wasn't allowed to take time off, so he asked me if I wouldn't mind going. So, I said sure and I went and I stayed for two months with my grandmother and took care of her after her stroke she was in the hospital and I had to pay for her bills and do all the stuff involved with that I took care of her and then the man who became my husband, he uh, he came to visit again, kept in touch, and he asked me to get engaged with him after three months of dating. I turned him down, second time he asked me I turned him down. And my grandmother said to me "I like him!" and I said "I know, I know" and my grandmother said "I want to see you married, I'm still alive I want to see you married before I die" I said "I know grandma I know I know but don't rush me I need to have the right guy, I need to find the right man who I love!" and she said "he seems like a nice man" and my grandmother said to me "remember, don't think about money" I said "no I'm not looking for money I'm looking for love. My grandmother said to me, when she, you met him, I met my husband and we were married in two weeks. I said Grandma that was a long time ago; it's different now she said you have to follow your stomach do you have butterflies there? You have to follow your heart do you feel love there, then do it! And I thought hmmm, but, I decided go ahead and get engaged. And so I got engaged with my husband and married him very quickly. And then, he stayed in Ukraine, it's funny, umm it was like, we were married, we didn't, I didn't have the dress or anything it was just the two of us went signed the papers and that was it. And, there were fifty people who were there, the same age as me, had a party, we didn't have any family at all. And my parents had no idea that I was married, my father knew I was engaged but he didn't know we'd actually gone in and signed the papers and made it legal, so, when I flew back, he said well why didn't you-- why did you go back to the U.S., he wanted me to stay in Ukraine, I said hang on a second I have to go there I have to talk to my father, so I flew back and I told my boyfriend uhh-- we're broken up that's it he was mad and I said well ohh uhh ohh well I love this other man. So, that's how I told my father that I'm married my father said "you're supposed to wait, you're supposed to have the dress, you're supposed to have everything." I said, "ehhh, doesn't matter" he said OK fine. Next year, we'll have the family, we'll have the wedding; we'll have a huge affair when you get married. And I told my husband well, you're going to have to come here to the U.S. and my husband said no he wanted me to stay in Ukraine! And I said but, but I'm going to college I'm going to be stuck he said I don't care you can start here in Ukraine and so I was very angry at that-- and then I told him Well fine, we should get divorced he said "what! We just got married!" You want to get divorced? I said because, I love you but I don't want to stay here. So, I said if you love me, then you'll come with me. He said ok, so he came with me here, and he was grumpy for a while, but as it went on like after a couple of years, I said I will always be there with you we were always helping each other I would help him translate things he would go to school and he'd say he wanted a job I said you have to be patient you have to focus on school first he didn't want to do that and finally he's the smart guy but after two or three months he would pick up English just like that and he got a job and he just took off and-- like my father (snaps fingers) it was like my father just right away didn't care about the schooling. Who cares, just get the job and he picked up English very well and now he does very well he doesn't write so well in English but he speaks very well; he knows how to speak. So, it's very amazing. So we've been married sixteen years now hmm. Yeah. And-- also I, I was thinking about my grandmother had said see? You're still married, and she was there when we were married and then it was a few years after that my grandmother said I want to see grandchildren! I said we're trying! We're trying! And then I was pregnant and my grandmother died, so, I always promised my grandmother-- grandchildren but I was very very close with my grandmother and grandfather there, very close to them, but, my mom's side of the family my grandmother was, I would see her, she was very sickly I never met my grandfather on my mother's side. My father's side I saw more often my grandmother and my grandfather and all the family there. Anything else? JG: I think we're uhh I think we're uhh-- good? AE: Uhh yeah, I think we're good. Thank you so much. JG: Thank you so much. IK: Mhmm you're welcome. JG: It was very nice to hear your story. AE: It was very nice thank you. IK: Well thank you! (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Irina Kirichuk Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kirichuk, Irina ; Gurewich, Jonathan ; Esposito, Andrea Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Irina Kirichuk was born in Kurganinsk, Russia and moved to Ukraine when she was three. She is of Russian, Ukrainian, and Armenian ancestry. She is hearing impaired. She came to the United States in 1993, works as a hairstylist, and lives with her family in Binghamton. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-11 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Irina Kirichuk.MP3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-21 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 59:45 Subject The topic of the resource Kirichuk, Irina. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Armenian; Russian; Ethnic identity; Ethnic--food; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d6a19fd785b1d092b0c36c68f8793d76.jpeg 8ef99edb98dd0ae1c6597004ad5d87b9 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/906a8ed5320d036b07a41532ace33917.m4a 179319acbb012691aba9ce6a0a7a90a1 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9671362edf0dd60a52389b737ab770d9.m4a 179319acbb012691aba9ce6a0a7a90a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Constantine Markotsis and Russell Brown Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Michael Gulachok Biographical Text Michael Gulachok is a third generation Ukrainian American who has lived in the area for his entire life. Natalia, Michael’s wife, is a first-generation immigrant from Chernivtsi, Ukraine and has lived in the United States for two decades. Natalia lived in Brooklyn until marrying Michael and moving to the Southern Tier. Michaelis a retired insurance salesman and lives in the southern tier of New York with his wife. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:23 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-12 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Michael Gulachok. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=MichaelGulachok.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainian Americans; Ukrainians; Immigrants; Ukrainian diaspora Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Michael Gulachok Interviewed by: Russell Brown and Constantine Markotsis Transcriber: Russell Brown and Constantine Markotsis Date of interview: 6 April 2016 at 09:52 am Interview Setting: St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Russell Brown: Hello, I'm Russell Brown, and I am here today with Constantine Markotsis. Today is April 6th, 2016 and the time is currently 9:52 AM and we are here at St. John's Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Johnson City, New York to interview Michael Gulachok to find out more about the history of the Ukrainian American Community of the Southern Tier. The two of us aim to explore the complexities of your past as a couple with first generation and third generation immigrant backgrounds. Michael Gulachok: I'm a 3-rd generation Ukrainian, my grandparents came over in the early 1900's. They first came into Pennsylvania and then up to this area. My grandfather wanted to be a farmer, and my grandmother wanted to stay in town. So, they opened a restaurant, which I think started around 1928, and it is still over here on Harry L Drive the Oasis Restaurant, but it has been out of the family hands for quite some time. RB: Could you please tell us a little bit about where you are from? MG: I/m from this area, I was born in Binghamton at Lourdes Hospital 65 years ago, or maybe that was 56, no (chuckles), 65 years ago, and I grew up mostly in Candor and Owego and I graduated from Owego Free Academy, SUNY Binghamton and pretty much lived in the area all my life. Constantine Markotsis: If I could just interject, where in Eastern Europe are your roots from? MG: What would now be the southeastern most part of Poland, it's a small village outside of a town called Sanok, the village name is Ulychne, there is a great website Ulucz.com and it comes in English, and that'll tell you all about the village. There you can read all about the village. The history is actually quite interesting, just a little place and it seems to have great significance, and also on top of that, many of the people in this church came from that small village. CM: And so, I guess that some of the original migrants came and told their families and neighbors to come here for work? MG: Yeah come here to the EJ factories and IBM. A lot of people would come here over Scranton because that is mostly coal mining down there. For instance, I had a great Uncle who died in a coal mining accident, I think it was 1932, so I feel it was a little bit of a better life up here. RB: Can you tell us a little bit about where your wife (Nataliya) is from? MG: My wife Nataliya is from a town which is very close to the Romanian border, and it's called Chernivtsi. It's really quiet a nice city, it has a cultural component, there is a university there (Chernivtsi University). If you look at a picture of Chernivtsi (university), it looks like the architects were on psychedelics or something. I mean it is just so many different designs. If you ever get a chance look up Chernivtsi. She (Nataliya) is from there and her family lived in a small village outside of Chernivtsi. Her mother is still alive, plus she has her son, granddaughter and brother were still there. Her brother was living in the United States for 10 years or so, but he went back. And she had another brother who passed away. RB: Could you describe your family's life in Ulychne? MG: Well you see right now the Ukrainians were pushed out of Ulychne in 1946 by the Polish government. They were mostly resettled in what is now western Poland on the border of Germany and/or Ukraine. So Ulychne now and it has been since '46 or '47 is basically Polish, there are some Ukrainians still left but mostly Polish. And it is kind of isolated, there is a foot bridge as one place you can use to get to it (Ulychne). Then there is a bridge as another way and then there is a ferry. It's on the Sand River and I have been there twice. RB: How did you like it there in Ulychne? MG: Oh, I loved it! I couldn't live there. But there was a church there that is the oldest existing wooden Carpathian style church in Poland, and it's on a hillside looking over Ulychne. It dates from about 1620. It is a museum now and they don't have services there now. But if you go on the website you will see pictures of it. Also, I have to say when the Germans came through in '42 or something, a lot of the village either by the Germans or the Polish was burned. Basically, they destroyed it. We have a map, but I don't know if it is here, but there is a map from the early '30's of Ulychne it actually shows where everyone lived. There is a legend and numbers on the houses and you can actually see where my great grandparents lived. CM: You say that the Ukrainian community was kicked out in '46, but your family left ways before that when it was still Austrian? MG: Yeah, it was a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, and we had relatives there when they were kicked out. Supposedly there is a family legend where we had a relative who had a grocery store there and when the Germans came though they shot her on the spot because of her protesting. We had relatives there when the Poles relocated them. But my relatives came over around 1912. My grandfather was 16 and my grandmother was from the same village. Her last name was Mareyko, Julia Mareyko and she came over two years later. RB: Can you tell us a little bit about why your wife came over? MG: She had relatives over here, she had an uncle who was a banker over in New Haven. By banker I don't mean he had money, he just worked as a banker (chuckles). He sponsored her, and she got a green card out of the lottery system and so did her brother Wassel and they both were living in Brooklyn. That is how she came over about 18 years ago. RB: When your grandparents lived in Ulychne do you know how they felt about the quality of life there? MG: It wasn't very good. There were land barons who controlled basically everything, and they only thing they did there was wood, vegetables, meat, cattle, and things of that sort. They would have to give a lot of it away to the barons. RB: Do you know why your wife decided to move over? MG: A better life. It's rough over there. The economy for a long time has not been very good in the Ukraine. CM: Just to clarify, what year did you say your wife moved to the US? MG: I am only guessing it was 16 or 18 years ago. I met her 15 years ago this May. She had been in the country for about two or three years at that time. CM: So right around 2000 basically? MG: A little before that yeah. I think '98. CM: So, then she lived through a lot of the Soviet Era? MG: Oh yeah. For instance, I took her to see Baryshnikov at the Anderson Center, and we had great seats and we were sitting right in front. And when I was telling her "Oh we are going to go see Baryshnikov, she really didn't know who he was, and I asked myself why she did not know. He defected in the '70s in Toronto before coming to the United States and you know the Soviet Union is not going to be allotting Baryshnikov over there. So, she really didn't know her story. CM: So, you could say in America you were able to learn more about Ukrainian history perhaps more than someone who actually lived there? MG: Oh yeah. Everything was Sovietized and it's basically what the Russians wanted them to know and learn. So, they had very limited knowledge of the United States and we were always portrayed as the devil. CM: Do you think the people bought into that, or was her family consciousness of the fact that something wasn't right? MG: I wouldn't say that about her parents, but, her contemporaries and her peers probably got that after a while because you can listen to radio for a year or get a bootleg movie and then they question why the US has such nicer things over there. You know the story: A Soviet athlete would walk into a supermarket and see 30 different types of shampoo and it was just mind blowing to them. RB: Based on your own experience what do you think sets 1st generation and 3rd generation immigrants apart? MG: Well, as far as 3rd generations go I did not have to embrace my history or my past, but I did. A lot of people just let it go and become Americans, and that is what our grandparents wanted really. They never really talked about the old country that much. They wanted us to be Americans, but there are so many people I know who are 3rd generation and they have no relation to their past, although it is up to each person. CM: I guess I may be able to relate as a 3rd generation and I don't know if this relates to your experience, but My dad's father was born in Greece and he would always say "Don't play soccer, play baseball because that is what the Americans play!" And then as my generation rolled along we want to know more about where we came from. I don't know if that kind of sounds kind of similar to you. MG: Yeah although I never really let it go. I was always into it, but I don't speak Ukrainian fluently, I know words and phrases. It is like that for so many people now, people are trying to find out more about their roots with places like Ancestry.com. For instance, the church of Latter-Day Saints has a big collection of genealogical resources. For instance, if I had gone to them before going out on my own trying to find family history I would have saved a lot of money. CM: I guess going off that, you said you speak some basic Ukrainian. I know we have Greek school, in this church is there a Ukrainian school? MG: There used to be in the 50's and 60's. There hasn't been one for quite a long time. CM: Do the kids speak Ukrainian? MG: Sometimes, it depends on their parents and whether or not they speak it at home. There are a lot of people in this church who don't speak it and some that do. I wish we could recruit new generation Ukrainians here. For instance, there is a Pentecostal Ukrainian church over in Conklin in Berkshire. They actually have been getting VISA's because they say they don't have religious freedom in the Ukraine and that has been their entry point into the United States. CM: This community is based on an older generation of immigrants than some of the other southern tier communities? MG: Yeah, the wave of immigration from this church and this area basically in the early 1900's or the first 40 years of the 1900's. RB: Now do you know why most people decided to live here in the southern tier of New York? MG: Well wherever they have relatives or sponsors. I know that whenever the 1st generation peoples came here they looked at the hills and the weather here and they were just like "god this is just like home." (Laughter) It isn't very different here and there. I went to Sanok and it felt just like Berkshire, NY. The houses and the utilities are a little different obviously, but it basically looks the same. It depends where you have family, there are other Ukrainian churches in Florida and southern California. RB: Just a little bit more about yourself, do you currently work? MG: No, I am retired, I have a seasonal NY state job with the gaming commission. And I work 61 days a year at (Job). RB: Could you tell us what your wife does? MG: My wife is a sales associate at the men's clothing department in Macy's. She has been there for 14 years. RB: What lessons has your work life taught you and your wife? MG: To be honest, to be hardworking, I always intended to get their 15 minutes early. I liked getting to work and having time to prepare and not just jump right into things like wham! I like getting there like 20 minutes early, having a cup of coffee, and then when it's 8 or 8:30 get into it. I have seen so many situations where people got in at 8:30 and start working at 10 after 9 (laughter). So, for my wife she is conscientious and very hard-working. She is probably the most hard-working person I have ever met. This woman works even when she is on the telephone she will be cleaning the house. She'll be doing yard work after the sun goes down and I'll tell her to come on in you know it's dark out there (laughter), you've done enough today. They are just really really driven. RB: Do you believe that is because of the culture she was brought up in the Ukraine? MG: Yeah, you know kind of strict and hard-working. I know her father worked in a factory and he never missed a day, they are all pretty hard-working. RB: Do you know what family was like for her and for yourself? MG: As I said I have been to her village and her city a couple of times. It is a beautiful city, she is in a village just outside the city along the Prut River. Prut means swift in Ukrainian. I have seen her schools and where she went to school, the schools are fairly nice. It's kind of idyllic area, I swear to god it's like a fast-moving river, I mean you can still go into it and swim in it. There are also evergreen hillsides rising up and it is like you are in Deposit, NY. She had a fairly good life there. And I had a good life here. My parents bought land along the Susquehanna River. So, you know I didn't have a Huck Finn life (chuckles) but I had boats all my life. I still have land on the river and a house, but we were flooded twice and now we live in Endwell on a hill (laughter). CM: You said the schools were pretty good where your wife came from. If I remember correctly, while the Soviet Union had a lot of hardships, it always had a good education program. MG: Yeah, she went to a university. She went to Kiev University, she got a business degree. You know it is kind of difficult for people from other countries. They come over here and they are highly educated, and it is difficult translating that education experience into the mainstream of this country. I've known doctors, chemists that have come over here and are driving taxi cabs. They never achieve success they would have achieved if they were born here. Because their language is not that precise, and I know I couldn't do what my wife did. My wife came here and had to learn a new alphabet, a new language, new customs, how to do things like an American, so it's very difficult. CM: So, your wife didn't speak any English when she came over? MG: No, she went to class for English as a second language. CM: ESL? MG: Yeah. I also help her everyday with her language and she doesn't teach me any Ukrainian (laughter). RB: That's a good segway into the next question. Do you know how well she assimilated to the United States? MG: She is very assimilated, although she hurts easily. Working in merchandising you meet all kinds of people, nice people, people of different backgrounds. And she talks to customers who can't understand her, and she feels offended or hurt. But she has acclimated pretty well. RB: Could you tell us about your grandparents when they came here? MG: My grandfather's name was Mike Gulachok, although it was probably Mykhailo, but it got changed in Ellis Island. I don't know if it is in there (referring to the binder on his family) but there is a boat manifest and a lot of information in there depending on what they put in. I think that DeDe (grandfather in Ukrainian) I think he started in a coal mine down in Scranton and then moved here for a shoe factory and then he opened up the restaurant. They learned English pretty well, they learned to read, write and speak English well. They had a good life and they loved their family. They had 4 children and they are buried up here. RB: What were some things your grandparents taught your parents and your parents taught you in terms of values? MG: (laughter as he is pointing to the picture of his grandparents in front of the Oasis Restaurant) CM: Just for the interview we are looking at a picture of his grandparents in front of the Oasis restaurant. That was the family business. MG: This is Baba's (grandma in Ukrainian) birthday party, and I think this is around 1956 and this is me (points to himself as a kid) and this is my mother, and all these are family and friends. That was in the Binghamton Press. You know the cover of SGT. Peppers (Beatles album)? CM: Yes. RB: Yes. MG: Well this is the family SGT. Peppers (laughter). CM: You have a very large extended family for sure. MG: Now do you want to ask me on how I met my wife? RB: Absolutely! MG: Oh, because this is a crazy story. May 15 years ago, I was spending a long weekend in NYC, and I'm staying in a hotel up in the theatre district. I decided to go down to the East Village to see what's happening down there, so I took a bus down Second Avenue and I got off at 7th street. The street was closed off because there was a Ukrainian festival and that is where I met here. RB: Oh wow. MG: I gave her my phone and address and she wrote to me and I wrote back and yeah that's how we met. RB: That is amazing. MG: Doesn't that make you believe in fate? I mean if I wasn't in NYC or decided to take the bus I would have never met her. CM: Yeah, a lot had to happen for that, for sure. I wrote down here that you mentioned in your family history that your family worked in the coal mines and moved to the shoe factories. From what Stephan and the Father told us it seems like your story and the Parish story are very similar. MG: Oh yeah, very similar. You know some people became engineers, some became doctors, some were bartenders, some were restaurant owners, some farmers. Not everyone is a doctor or lawyer, some people have to cook the bread or stir the paint. CM: It seems though that now when you compare it to the 1920's that the Parish seems to be a lot better off now the quality of life seems much better. MG: Yeah around the 60's and 70's this area was quite booming. I mean it's been in decline but there were a lot of opportunities here. One-time IBM had employed 16,000 people, but now they employ like 2,000. There were a lot of opportunities here, the value of opportunity. RB: what was your daily life like when you first met Natalia? She is a first-generation immigrant, so she still has to get used to the country and everything-- MG: Well that was interesting, she was living in Brooklyn and I was living in the country outside of Owego on the river. I proposed, and we got married in New York City at the marriage bureau in Manhattan, had many of her friends from Brooklyn for the reception and got a U-Haul [for her belongings]. Then I brought her up here. She grew up in the country-- RB: [the Southern Tier was] as close to home as possible MG: She went from living in NYC to living in the sticks up here. She liked it here, she learned how to drive a car, etc. and I've unsuccessfully tried to talk her into moving back to Brooklyn. CM: I imagine in Brooklyn that she lived in an ethnic Ukrainian community? MG: Actually not, she lived in Sunset Park, which was mainly an orthodox Jewish neighborhood. It really had all kinds of people there. There was this one commercial center close to where she lived, and I remember that there was a Chechen night club near it, and we'd walk by and the owners would say "come on in! Come on in!" But we'd say no thanks. There were really all kinds of people there. CM: I imagine that she had to assimilate pretty quickly, and assume that she spoke some English by the time you guys met? MG: Oh yeah, she had been taking some ESL courses, and while I writing to her, she would share [our correspondence] with her uncle, who told her “This is what you need, you need exposure to the language". While she lived in Brooklyn, all of her friends were Ukrainian, which led to her being pretty insular, and she didn't speak to many people in English other than when she went to a store for instance. When she came up here, she really got immersed. RB: I imagine it'd be easier to do so up here (the southern tier), than in the hectic city. MG: If you don't, talk to anyone in a language, you won't learn it. CM: I agree, my experience has been such that I think you could take 80,000 of those (ESL) classes, but the real way to learn a language is just by being forced to speak it. MG: Yeah, you can even learn English by just watching TV, especially situational comedies. Sometimes I hear things coming out of her mouth, and I think gee whiz, are we on law and order? CM: Going off of that, have you noticed differences in Ukrainian and American mannerisms? Inter personal quirks perhaps? Such as how far away you should stand from the person you're talking to? MG: Yeah, I've noticed that she is superstitious. If you look at pictures from the old country, you'll notice that no one is smiling. RB: I have noticed that. MG: Another example of this is when I go to buy clothes at the Salvation Army, she'll say that we shouldn't buy it since it was certainly owned by dead people, which we all know is not necessarily true or important if it was. She is also afraid of the cellar, I haven't the slightest idea why, and whenever she goes down there to wash something, I always have to check in on her and ask if she is ok. They (Ukrainians) certainly have their ways of acting, behaving and thinking, which we might not be familiar with. RB: One of my Ukrainian friends told me that in his home he isn't permitted to whistle or to leave his keys on the table, is that a superstition that sounds familiar to you? MG: I've never heard that one! [Laughs] CM: If I recall, our friend also mentioned that his family told him not to smile too much, since that would lead to wrinkles in old age, does that sound familiar to you? MG: I haven't heard of that one either. However, I have noticed that Ukrainian culture tends to be less relaxes, far more formal. If you go to someone's house you are expected to kiss all of the women's hands, bring flowers, food, wine, or something. Which I feel is nice. CM: In general, that seems more formal than American culture, how do you feel that large holidays compare for instance? MG: All gatherings certainly had a larger religious aspect to them, as opposed to pagan. Our Christmas and Easter are almost exclusively based on Christianity. As you know, our Christmas and Easter are celebrated at different times than other Christian denominations. CM: Just to clarify for the recording, your church follows the old calendar correct? MG: Correct, we follow the Julian calendar. CM: And Easter coincides with Passover [in Eastern Orthodoxy] MG: Yes, and this year our Easter will fall on May 1st. CM: And do the other local Ukrainian churches in the area follow the same religious calendar? Such as Sacred Heart (A catholic parish) or the Pentecostal church? MG: No, Sacred Heart's calendar is in line with the rest of the catholic calendar, and I'm not really not sure what the Pentecostals do. RB: What made your grandparents chose this church over the others? MG: Well my grandparents were founding members of the church and were very involved in it: one of grandparents even became church board president. It was a very important parcel of their history, their culture. CM: Of course, as in many ethnic Eastern Orthodox denominations, I noticed while I was upstairs that this church has a Ukrainian flag next to the altar, and I feel that we can safely say that this doesn't function merely a place of worship, as opposed to the Catholic Church for instance. It is a national church that embodies the ethnic history and cultural values of the community here. MG: It is, and no matter what variant of orthodoxy one practices, be it Serbian, Greek, Ukrainian, or otherwise, is still the same orthodox faith. I personally feel that it shouldn't be hung on an ethnicity or an ethnic background, because religion is universal. The semi separation arose from linguistic barriers and we should always aim to appeal to and include members of all other nations who wish to pray. I do remember that very recently we had a Binghamton University student who had come from Ethiopia, and he prayed with our community while he was here. I like the idea that you can come here regardless of what your heritage is. CM: I absolutely agree with you. I do feel that this view is more widespread now in 2016 than it would have been historically. MG: I would also imagine that earlier generations wouldn't have felt that way. I feel that people have become more thoughtful, open, and progressive than they were in say the 1930s. CM: It seems that if you had an Ethiopian who felt comfortable here that we could characterize the parish itself as progressive and open one. MG: Yes, we were happy to have him here. RB: Just going back to your relatives, what sort of things did your parents teach you to regard as important? Such as the values they imbued in you? MG: Honesty. Honesty, and hard work. I can't say love of family; don't get me wrong we loved each other, but we didn't really reach out to far. I started to get more involved in the church as of the 1990s and am happy to have seen society as a whole become kinder, and more well informed. RB: Going off of that, as a 3rd generation Ukrainian American and a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, what do you feel best defines being "Ukrainian American", [as a Ukrainian immigrant would see it] and with regards to how you yourself would define it? MG: Pride and love of heritage. My family came from an area of the world that had been persecuted, repressed, and that made heritage all the more important to hold onto-- I consider myself an American first and a Ukrainian American second. I value passing down our culture to the next generation, especially given the hard times that we [Ukrainians] have faced. Ukraine has been in the geopolitical crosshairs for centuries. Ukraine itself means "borderland" in Russian, which is evidence of its struggle through the millennia. That being said, I saw an online map of the changing borders of Europe over time, and we certainly aren't the only people to face such issues. Going forward I want to see the Ukraine succeed, and to be able to provide a better and more prosperous life for the Ukrainian people. You didn't happen to see the frontline documentary about Putin did you? CM: No, but the two of us have managed to keep current as to the basics of the current situation in the Ukrainian [i.e.: Russian invasion of Crimea in 2014], and the country certainly has had a rough few years recently--. CM: We could also ask you this: The Ukraine itself isn't a monolith: Many Ukrainians belong to different religious sects, such as the Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Orthodox churches, Judaism, the Pentecostal church, etc. Some Ukrainians speak Ukrainian at home, other Russian, others Slovak, etc. I suppose we could say that there are many potential elements that can come together as part of a Ukrainian identity. MG: All of those elements can vary, at the end of the day it is identifying with your heritage. If you were to google my name (Michael Gulachok) online, you'd find that there aren't any aside from me. I am proud of my name, and moreover my heritage. It feels like I'm one of the last Mohicans in a way, because I am probably the last one. CM: I suppose Gulachok is a rare family name then? MG: Yes. An interesting fact is that the word "Gula" in my last name had its origins in the Catholic Church and related to debauchery [laughter]. CM: My own last name translates to smuggler, so you never know [laughter]. MG: For all we know I had a drunken dancer as the family founder [laughter] RB: Given that you are a 3rd generation Ukrainian, and your wife is 1st generation, what sort of values are emphasized in your household? What do you find most important in the household? MG: Well, when my brother visited us recently he said "You know, this smells like Baba's (Grandma's) house." Meaning the food that we cook, the icons that we have, and our artwork aren't very different from what my parents and grandparents would have had. When you step inside you instantly get the impression that you're in a Ukrainian enclave. I had a beautiful watercolor painting of the church that was ruined in the flood in Owego, and I still have it in the abandoned house. Now it seems sort of impressionistic. CM: I guess it morphed into a Kandinsky [laughter] M; Yeah either that or a Polack. RB: How does your religion shape your Ukrainian identity? MG: It is very much a part of who I am, when I had once physically left the church, I hadn't spiritually done so. The sermons here, and the liturgy are nowadays roughly one-half Ukrainian, and one-half English. It is a very integral part of who I am and who we are. CM: In my own experience, it seems like an uncle of mine who wasn't too religious, but the church was always a part of the Greek identity. I feel as though the same applies in this community, and I feel in every sect of Eastern Orthodoxy, that the church life is integral in shaping the ethnic identity. MG: Yes, I would agree. RB: Would you say that you are more American, or more Ukrainian? MG: I am more of an American, while my wife is more of a Ukrainian. CM: Your wife of course lived there, and you mentioned that you've revisited Eastern Europe a few times. MG: yes, I have been to Poland three times, Ukraine twice, Slovakia once, Russia once. CM: Over the course of your visits, did you notice any change over time. MG: Yes, especially in Poland, which is doing very well. Ukrainians look over the border at Poland and think "wow, the Poles are doing so well, if only we could do that". That and Ukraine is still struggling under the thumb of Russia, the people just want a better life for themselves and their children. Poland is truly doing very well. The first time I flew into Warsaw, which is actually pronounced "Var-SHAH-va", the airport was very substandard, it was a dreary and dilapidated cinderblock building, and then just a few years later in the early 90s, the airport and the city itself had rapidly transformed. CM: Just to clarify, when did you make your first visit? MG: I first visited Russia and the Ukraine in 1992. CM: So, the USSR had just fell. MG: Correct, and the people were very excited for the future, Ukraine was free. CM: So the general feeling wasn't a more apprehensive "what do we do now?" It was more of a "finally! We can't wait, Thank God! This is the best thing that could've happened! MG: I never like to travel in a tourist bubble, when I went to Russia and the Ukraine for the first time I traveled with a peace group, so it wasn't a sightseeing itinerary-based trip, we were able to really immerse ourselves and met a lot of people. We travelled extensively, by train, taxi, boat, plane, horse. People were excited, they didn't know what would come next but they were excited and hopeful. RB: I recall you saying you and your wife travelled together to your wife's village. Did she ever say how it has changed if it has at all? MG: There is definitely more building going on, newer/ more modern homes have popped up. Keep in mind these are single family houses, I'm not talking about multi story towers. The town looks like the old country aside from some new housing. The school especially looks very modern. CM: You said that during the interlude between your visits, the area had changed quite a lot. Perhaps you could touch on the change in culture, and access to the outside world? MG: They want to become more like the west, and it is not as closed as it used to be in Soviet days. The people now know about what is going on in the world. RB: Do you feel that the Ukraine is becoming more Americanized. MG: I would say maybe more Europeanized. After all Europe is right next door. RB: Going back to the home, what sort of traditions do you retain from the old country in the home? What sort of things, such as Ukrainian Orthodox history matter a lot in your home? MG: Well it goes back to the holidays; Stephan could probably articulate this better than I. But we try and keep our holidays in line with our Ukrainian Orthodox traditions, and our house. RB: If I recall you speak some Ukrainian? MG: yes "У вас є сестра?" (Do you have a sister?) [Laughter] "принести мені пиво" (Bring me a beer) [laughter] C; All of the practical terms I suppose MG: Of course, "Вибачте, де туалет?" (Excuse me, where is the toilet?) CM: Yeah that'd definitely be good to know [laughter] RB: Do you and your wife speak Ukrainian at home? MG: Well she does when she swears at me [laughter] she swears in Ukrainian. We have Skype, and she'll speak Ukrainian on Skype with her friends from Brooklyn and New Jersey who don't speak much English. She does have Skype connections with some people back in the Ukraine, but unfortunately none of her relatives live close to someone with access to Skype. So she isn't able to look at and speak with them. But it is definitely nice that she can keep in touch with some people in New York and the Ukraine with it. CM: Would that be because her friends are from a developed urban center like Kiev, or Odessa, etc. MG: Yes, those people are certainly more prosperous, and have greater access to the globe. CM: So it seems that there is a much greater disparity between urban and rural Ukraine than urban and rural America. MG: Oh yeah, the cities have become very cosmopolitan and cultured, there is also certainly more economic activity going on in the cities. It is amazing to see horses and wagons. CM: So you still see that to this day? MG: Oh yeah, there are a lot of cars, but yes. The first time I went to Poland I was amazed by the sheer number of farmers using horses and wagons. After ten years had passed there were substantially fewer. RB: Even within ten years a country can certainly change a lot, and I believe we have just about exhausted our time. CM: Yes, right now though if there is anything you would like to add, or something you feel we didn't cover please add it in. MG: As is I'll probably think of it as I walk out the door. [Laughter] RB: Thank you very much for sharing the stories of you and your wife. CM: Thank you very much, we enjoyed it a lot. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Gulachok Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource <p>Michael Gulachok. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Broome County (N.Y.)</p> Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gulachok, Michael ; Markotsis, Constantine ; Brown, Russell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Michael Gulachok is a third generation Ukrainian American who has lived in the area for his entire life. Natalia, Michael’s wife, is a first-generation immigrant from Chernivtsi, Ukraine and has lived in the United States for two decades. Natalia lived in Brooklyn until marrying Michael and moving to the Southern Tier. Michael is a retired insurance salesman and lives in the southern tier of New York with his wife. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-12 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Michael Gulachok.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-06 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 58:23 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/79d496f0c5af508d2d1c28c99eb611da.m4a 09ec821dc466fa4700bc20f49a171e35 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dennis A. Kalashnik Biographical Text Dennis A. Kalashnik is a Russian-Ukrainian Immigrant and business owner. He was born in Krasnodar Krai, Russia and came to the States in 1991 when he was four years old. Both of his parents are Ukrainian. He is currently married and resides in Endwell. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 52:20 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-13 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp4 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Kalashnik, Dennis A. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia -- History; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=DennisKalashnik.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Russians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Soviet Union; Russian-Ukrainian Baptist Church Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Dennis A. Kalashnik Interviewed by: Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Transcriber: Logan Bretz and Heaven Germann Date of interview: 13 April 2016 at 3:00 PM Interview Setting: Starbucks, 904 W Front Street, Binghamton, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Logan Bretz: [Music playing in background throughout the interview] Hello Dennis, my name is Logan and this is Heaven. We are going to ask you some questions today. First, we would like you to introduce yourself. What's your name? Where are you from? What do you do for a living and what do you like to do for fun? Dennis Kalashnik: My name is Dennis Kalashnik. I live in Endwell. Here. Locally. Uhm. I ah came here to the States in 91 from Russia but I am Ukrainian. My parents are both Ukrainian. Uhm. I like to fix cars. Eat out. Pretty much. That's about it. LB: You said eat out-- DK: Make money [Laughter from all]. LB: Make money! Where is your favorite place to eat? DK: Uh, probably the Japanese Hibachi places. Either Fuji San, Fushimi or Kampai. One of those. LB and Heaven Germann: Ah okay. LB: Okay. So, where were you born? DK: I was born in what is now Russia. It was Soviet Union back then. Uhm. It's Russia, Krasnodar Krai, which is Southern Russia, near the Caucasus. Yeah, it's a little warmer than here. LB: Do you remember anything from growing up? DK: Yeah. A few moments uh because I was about four and a half when I moved here. So I remember some like highlights I guess, like you know, events, birthdays, stuff like that you know? Cute little scenes from my childhood. LB: Would you like to share any? DK: Uh, well I remember I had ah my appendix removed when I was little. So I remember that. I was like almost three years old. I remember having the surgery, going under and I remember, you know, family meeting us and getting gifts and stuff like that. And I remember ah, in ah where we grew up, we had a lot of people immigrate to the states so it was kind of like a tradition to go to the railroad station and you know, wave people off. And like. HG: That's really cool. LB: Yeah, that's really neat. DK: Yeah. So people would take the train to the nearest bigger city and then take the airport from there to Moscow and then fly out of there to JFK. LB: That's so neat. DK: Yeah. LB: Uhm. So what are your parents like? DK: My parents? LB: Yeah. DK: Ah, my dad is, ah, well he came here. He was 27 and my mom was about 24 years old so they were relatively young. Uhm. Really hardworking. I think they have a strong work ethic. I think that's probably what they taught me the most. Uh, my dad and mom are from ah, well we all go to the Baptist Church here so kind of the main reason why we moved here was because they used to have religious persecution during the Soviet Union so once the uhm, you know, the iron wall was removed, they were able to immigrate and they took advantage of that. ASAP, I guess. LB: Do you remember anything about your grandparents? DK: Uhm, well when I moved away, both of my parents’ side of their mothers passed away when they were younger. My dad was like twenty years old when his mom passed away, so his dad remarried and uhm my mom's mother passed when she was four years old. So I only got to meet my grandfather's. They came here to the states to visit us when we already lived here and I visited them as well, a few times when they lived there, so. It wasn't really a close relationship because they lived so far away. LB: Okay. Uhm. Which family member would you say influenced you the most? DK: Uh, hard to pick one. They're really. We are actually from a really tight knit family where family is like means a lot in our family, so. Uhm. I think they're, both parents were actively involved in our upbringing and you know, so I wouldn't be able to pick one I guess [He chuckles]. LB: And also, what part of Ukraine did you or your family come from, [correcting pronunciation] come from and who do they most identify with? DK: Uh well, my, both of my, my parents' side are uh from like suburbs of Kiev. So, kind of like this from Cherkassy. Which is uh, I don't know, maybe 100 kilometers South of Kiev which is the capital of the Ukraine now. Uhm, and by identify. What do you mean, like? LB: With Ukraine or Russia? DK: I think I would identify more with Russia. I think I'm more sympathetic toward Russia because uhm, I don't really speak Ukrainian. I only speak Russian. During the Soviet Union, everybody spoke Russian there, so only, like during, in small villages people spoke Ukrainian. All the central towns and cities is more Russian. HG: And that was one of our uhm other question was what language did you primary, primarily speak when you were growing up? DK: Russian. Yeah. So kind of more like eastern Ukraine. You know, like everybody there speaks Russian pretty much. Although, I got married. Now, my wife is from Western Ukraine and she learned Russian actually in the states, here. When she moved here, she did not speak Russian at all. HG: Oh, that's really cool. DK: So, I uh remember she said like when she was growing up she would have some visitors come from Russia and they were like looking at them like they were you know, totally aliens or something. They would make of their language because it was so odd for them. LB: Was your family originally from Kuban? DK: Uh, yeah. LB: And when did your parents migrate? DK: When? LB: Yes. DK: Uh, ninety, ninety-one. LB: Ninety-one? DK: Ninety-one. Yeah. It was October sixteenth or something like that. Ninety-one. LB: Did they, did they migrate back to Ukraine and then come back? DK: Uh, well, my dad got married and my mom already lived in uh, Kuban so they got, my dad got married for like a year together in Ukraine and then there's just better opportunity for them and in the Russian area so they moved there. LB: And what did your parents do? DK: Back there? LB: Yes. DK: My dad was a shoe smith. Back there. He owned his own uh, store. He'd make custom made like stilettos and stuff like that that he would specialize in, women's shoes. High heels and that sort of thing. He had his own little gig doing that. Uhm, he went to school for that then started his own business. It was really hard having your own business back over there because you had to pay off a lot of bribes and try to order supplies and stuffs to run your business. It's not like here you can just go and call any warehouse or what not and get what you need. There you have to like pay somebody off to get, you know, supplies for your business, taxes, and all that stuffs. It's hard to run your own business. LB: That's really interesting. I did not know that. Uhm. Do you remember any stories they told you about when they came to America and when you moved to America? DK: Uhm, well. That's, I would say is pretty fresh in my mind too, when we moved here. It was kind of just, everything was so new. You know, you were really, really like aware of what was going on. Uhm so, I mean I remember just from landing here in Binghamton uh, you know, all of our relatives were greeting us that were already here in the states before we were. Uhm, back then it was the only way to get into the states; was the immigration was first open up to Jews. So like our cousins, they had to prove that they had some kind of Jewish roots and they were able to immigrate through Italy and then come here. And we were the first, I think one of the first ones that were able to immigrate directly from, you know, Russia to these to the states without going through some kind of middle country or uhm. So I remember them meeting us here. I remember going to Chuck E. Cheese and stuff. That was like a celebration. That was fun. That was like totally different. You know, jumping in the, you know, big arcades there, and they have the balls of the, with the, all that stuff, that was, that was cool. LB: Uhm, do you have any classic family stories, jokes or songs? DK: Uhm. Well like I said, we are from a Christian family so we have a lot of us when we get together a lot of our uh I guess uh conversation and we would sing a lot of Christians songs, you know and a lot of Russian food. And uhm, so. The games we played as kids growing up here would be mostly like you know, American games, freeze tag and uh, you know, uh stuff like that. Soccer, basketball, even though that was more like we were kind of I'd say we were more like intertwined with American culture pretty quick. Because you go to school, public school and nobody wants to stick out, so [He laughs]. HG: Yeah, and that was uhm, going into that, can you tell us like your school experience here? DK: Uh, well, when I moved here I was four and a half so like within half a year I went to kindergarten. Basically the next following school year in September, I was started kindergarten. At that point I wouldn't, I wouldn't say like I had that much exposure to the American society here until I went to school. And I had I think a hard time at first uh because I had like, you come to school, you don't understand anything. Like what everybody is asking you. I mean like you know, you want to go to the bathroom, you can't explain yourself, you know you want to eat you can't explain yourself. You just hope they can figure out your sign language, I guess you know or you just get frustrated. My, my first, uhm first day of going to school. I was so excited to go and then I remember I came to school and I guess I didn't have the proper vaccination or something like that and they called me out on the speaker, pulled me out of gym class in front of the whole school like made me seem like I was like some kind of you know diseased kid or something like that. They put me in a taxi and sent me home. So, from that day on I hated school. They ruined it for me [He laughs]. L & HG: Awe! DK: First day in. So. Uhm, I mean I just kind of did what I needed to do to get by and. I remember I got lucky actually. There was one girl in my class who was Ukrainian and she was there I think a year before we were and she knew some English. So she would like kind of translate and because of her, I was able to pick it up a lot quicker. LB: That's nice. Did you have any memorable teachers? DK: Uhm, yeah. I remember there was some uh when I moved to Vestal. I went to vestal from second grade until I graduated. Uhm, I remember uh Mrs. Smith, Ms. Smith. Uh, she was really nice like when I just moved there, she was like, just welcomed me very well into that class that I was in. I remember making her project and stuff like that, and you know, dedicating it to her and then, what's funny is I moved to Endwell after I got married and she's my neighbor now. So [He laughs]. DK: So I got talking to her. I'm like oh she has a familiar name. So, we're actually next-door neighbors now so. Yeah, she was the nicest teachers that I had when I was growing up so, that was cool. LB: What is one of your favorite memories from your early schooling? DK: Well, like I said, that one getting kicked out of school. -- I don't know. My family, let's say like some families are very oriented toward education and they push their kids to you know; get a degree and what not. Our family wasn't really like that. They were more about I guess working hard and -- just being decent humans. You know, they would instill good morals in us. We were very --involved in church. -- That was -- that, I think that's the most centric thing in our family, is religion. I think. -- And if like school work or school activities took time away from that, that was supposed to be, I guess placed on, you know, a second priority. So we weren't really involved in too much -- after school activities or anything like that. Did our work. Did what was asked of us and went home. Helped out around the house. -- Went to church. I had a lot of friends around the church and, a lot of kids there, so. LB: What were your friends like? DK: -- There's all of us are pretty similar. Like to play American sports--. Like to, I personally like to fix cars. They all had hobbies around cars, being boys and all. -- Just very active. Just normal childhood. LB: And going back to your school experience, did being Russian/Ukrainian affect the way you were treated? DK: -- I don't, I don't know if it was. Well, we try to stick with our own I guess. When we went to school, at least because we're not even. Although I'd say we are kind of first generation American, but I mean we aren't really. Because--Just being like, kind of growing up in a really big like Slavic bubble protected us I think from too much American influence at once. So when we went to school we would have friends that were you know were just like us that knew our culture. We kind of hung out together so that kind of made us I think stick out a little bit at school so. Kind of, they protected our back you know in school fights and stuff. And nobody really messed with you because you had a group of loyal friends and stuff like that. So that was kind of neat in a way but I also think it's kind of not really good because you didn't really intertwine too much too. HG: Going back to what you said earlier how there was the one girl in your class that was Ukrainian. Did you remain friends with her? DK: --We kind of, lost track after I moved to Vestal, when we were little. But, I mean now, like, growing up I still see her around town here and there. I think she got remarried, got married to a Bosnian guy. So, I see her and I recognize her face but I just say hi or whatever. But not really close friends, yeah. HG: So, you said earlier that religion was very important to your family. Do you mind if we talk about your religious aspects now? DK: Mhm. Sure. HG: So what is your overall religious background? DK: -- Christian protestant which is -- a church that separated from the Orthodoxy churches. -- That being -- kind of based on Martin Luther's theses and stuff that he posted and all so basically that you're saved by faith. And it's not like an Orthodox church is when you're small you get christened into the faith and you're kind of a nominal Christian. Here, you grow up and you have to choose it at your own time. So, when you accept Christ, you get baptized in the church and then. You live, you know, based on your faith and not feel like, because of your parents were Christian and what not. So, that's kind of the basis of it, so. HG: -- Would you say that your religious beliefs have changed or adapted in any way to like American society or is it still? DK: No -- I would say they're probably the same as when people like used to live in the Soviet Union. Probably the same style church here. Hasn't changed much. All the values are the same, all the traditions are, I would say that pretty much all of the traditions back from Russia or Ukraine. Just, when I go back there to visit, I go to the churches there, it's, it's the same thing. HG: So, how many times have you gone back to like Russia since being here? DK: -- Five times maybe? Five times? Our mom would send us back there -- for the summer. So, we'd go there and visit our relatives. Hang out there in the summertime and that would help us preserve the language, the culture, traditions. HG: That's really cool. DK: For our parents, that was important for us to remember the language and so they tried and made an effort for us to go there and -- my mom taught me I think, how to read and write here. When we were at home, she would just take the -- alphabet book and I mean taught us how to read and practice our writing. We also have like a Russian school which is within our church -- on Saturdays. They have -- classes. They get all the kids together and they teach them how to read and write in Russian. So that helps too. LB: So when you would go back to Russia, is it, did it change over the years? DK: -- Well, it's more westernized. You know. During, when we just left -- the Soviet Union fell so there's a lot of poverty there and a lot of -- corruption stuff like that. And ever since the president there changed, it's kind of been normalized and things gotten, there's a lot more order there. Well, you see a lot of the style of shopping for instance, they used to be markets and stuff and now they have malls like we do here too. So, they got rid of all that stuff. And, so you go to the mall, there's ice skating rinks in the mall, there's carousels in the mall they have McDonald's they have, you know Asian restaurants, they have American food, you know. So it's very similar, you know. The transportation system is the same. Cars are the same. They import everything. So it's just like a normal place. The only thing different is you come there and everybody speaks Russian. That kind of startles you. First of all you're like oh that's weird! Everybody understands what you're saying and stuff like that so it's kind of. You get this homey feeling too when you go there. So, that's cool. HG: Do you have like any, like favorite memories from going back to Russia when you would visit your family or just being there? DK: -- Well, when we went there like the last time I went there was in 2009. I got married in 2010 so then it was harder to go and travel because it's more money now and you got bills to pay. HG: Yeah. DK: But in 2009 when I went, --, my mom's side is, --, the relatives that all live there and they're very hospitable so when we go there they make an effort to, you know, treat us to, you know, all kinds of places and take us to the, uh, Black Sea there for instance. We got to go to Sochi where the Olympics were, um, all the resorts there. And one of my uncles made uh like uh a euro trip sort of thing for us. He paid some guy to uh take a van and just take us down to the sea, he took us to Moscow, took us to Saint Petersburg. We got a lot of tourism done. And he kind of made it possible for us to experience the culture there so that was really neat and interesting. We weren't just stuck sitting at our grandma's house or something like that you know, something boring. We actually got to see the country so that was fun. LB: Mhm. Back there do they follow different traditions than you do here? DK: -- like it's just a different way of life. The people are different a little bit. -- Here, everybody smiles I would say, and but you leave maybe behind your back they would say something different. There they just say it straight up to your face if they don't like something. People are more blunt and I think up front; less political correctness there -- kind of like Donald Trump. [Laughter] So we can relate to him I guess. You'll go to a store, you know, if you want to touch something and just look at it they'll flip out on you. Why are you touching it? Are you going to buy it or--? That's one thing is like, customer service is like nonexistent there. They just don't want to waste their-- You know they see if you're wasting their time. Their actually, if you have money, they can tell by the way you're dressed or what not and they'll-- They, they judge you right automatically if they can make money off you or not or you're just going to waste their time and beat around the bush. They'll just tell you, you know, don't-- get along. LB: Going back to, going back to religion, can you describe a holiday mass at your church? DK: -- well, we have-- like I said, our-- our-- origins are from an orthodox background so there's some influence from orthodox churches. Like some of their traditions, for instance, we just celebrated Easter-- the Orthodox Church gets up really early and they go to-- go to church. -- celebrate their holiday-- like we still have that tradition too. Like we'll get up really early in the morning, and we have service at 6 am. You know, we get up with sunrise and go-- our typical service there would've been like-- like we have bands playing. We have a lot of kids programs and stuff. They learn a lot of verses for the holidays. They dress up-- everybody dresses up special. And -- so we even have like food afterwards, so. LB: What kind of food would you have? DK: -- well you get halupki which everybody knows that. So you get that. A lot of mashed potato -- different salads. So-- barbecue going on. Shashlik, which is like a chicken spiedie sort of thing. So a little grilling going on. HG: That sounds good. LB: As you were growing up, was the food different? DK: --, like right now I prefer more American food. Like when I go out-- I like to go out because at home I would eat Russian food and stuff like that and I kind of like American food more, because it's just variety. For me it just feels like if I want to go out somewhere I don't want to pay for something that I could eat at home. Although our food is good, I just want something different. LB: What kind of food would you eat that you didn't like as much as American food? DK: -- I like-- well I like steak and stuff like that like they have-- they cook meat on like barbs but it's not like steak. They do like pork and they'll chop that up and put it like on spiedie sort of thing which is good too -- and I like-- I like burgers too [Laughs]. DK: I like American classic cheeseburgers. Sometimes you want that and you can't get that at home. I mean you could cook it but I'm lazy to do that so. HG: You said growing up how your family would keep like the-- some of the traditional Russian like dishes and stuff. What were some that you remember like growing up? DK: -- We get a lot of canned-- canned vegetables and stuff during the fall. My mom would do a lot of canning like jam, and -- she really likes that. Mushrooms. I really like mushrooms and mashed potatoes and I like-- smoked fish, so. That's kind of-- like if I was to eat at home that's what I'd prefer. And then there's crepes too. You know, your Russian version of crepes with strawberries and put Nutella on it too and what not, so. HG: -- So going back to uh, religion and your church, are you like involved in like any of your church activities? DK: Yeah. HG: Because you were telling us about the Russian stuff on Saturday. DK: Yeah I'm actually a youth leader in our church so I get all the younger kids together and we organize camps. --We organize a lot of trips, like this weekend we are going to go visit another Russian church in Wilkes-Barre. So we do a lot of communication between our Russian network that exists here in the states. So I helped organize that. -- I'm also involved with the choir so I help conduct music. We learn choir music and um I preach in church too. So we have-- in our church we have a tradition where we have like 3 preachers so everybody gets a chance, in our church all the like-- all the men, young and old, so I'm involved in that. And I help out with cleaning and all that stuff in church too when need be. I cut the grass around the building if need be. I plow the snow because I lived the closest [Laughter]. DK: And everybody wants to borrow the key from me because I have it and people forget the key to the church they'll knock on my house to bail them out [Laughter]. HG: So um, is there any like maybe Ukrainian aspects you kind of hold on to or is it just more like Russian? DK: Uh well, you know, Russia and Ukraine are considered two brotherly countries, so. What I mean with that is, all the culture is so intertwined, uh, I really don't even know a difference personally, besides the language. It's just like a different dialect kind of like we have here in the states; southern and northern dialect. It's similar; theirs. All the culture is the same. The food is the same. Maybe they'll have a specialty dish that you know we don't have or something like that or vice versa but everything is-- I really personally do not see a difference. HG: Um, also when you travel, you said you've gone to Russia, have you ever gone back to like your hometown to visit there? DK: Yeah where we moved from all our, my relatives still actually live in that town -- so I got to, when I go to visit--. A few times, I went to see our house there where we used to live. Like, my dad built that house so it was kind of neat to go on that street and you know remember, a few memories come back. I mean you remember playing in the yard, because it has changed since we were. It was a new house when we built it and so the neighborhood was kind of vacant. It was just all new building lots -- now it's all developed. So it's changed a little bit over the times and it's interesting to see where you lived and walk around the streets, familiar places. HG: Yeah, I would agree that would be kind of cool just to go back and like-- DK: Yeah. HG: Look at everything and just see it now. HG: We are at a half an hour. DK: Yeah. HG: Help! HG: Okay, so which relatives or so would you have left like in Kuban, Ukraine, or Russia? DK: Uh like, well all my dad's side is from, while they lived in Ukraine. Umm my dad and one of his brother's moved to Russia. So all his side moved to the states, immigrated here in the 90s. My mom's side, she has two sisters that moved here and one brother. So she has another four brothers with big families there that refused to move here. So they're uhh nationalists, so they didn't want to come here. They consider us traitors for leaving. So, but just like in a friendly way. They're still very nice to us and all that, but they refuse to leave cause. Umm in Ukraine it was a lot harder, so anybody who lived there they tried to get out of there. Umm like Russia, had a little bit easier I think. They had a little bit more job opportunities, so a lot of the people were fine off there. Especially, after the 90s when umm Vladimir Putin became the President in the early 2000s. People the economy did better, umm granted they have more resources to thrive off of. But that did help develop the country, like economically and people just had more opportunity there and they were fine off there. Basically, if you have your own house there that's paid for you're all set, you know. And there's not as much taxes as you have here. Income taxes is like non-existent almost, real estate taxes are almost non-existent. The only thing you may have to pay is car insurance and that's kind of a new thing too. So if you have your home there you're all set pretty much. You don't have to worry about it. All you have to do is to make some money to put food on the table, its close. It's relatively doable. LB: So when you would go back and visit Russia. Where was one of your favorite places? DK: Well uhh, the town that I lived in is Kurganinsk, which is maybe like a 60,000-population town, so it's not that big, maybe like Endwell, here in New York. Umm so there's not much to do there except see your family. A week of that was good for me, then I'd try and split from there and go you know to the resort area or the beach. Places that were more busting and. Uhh so I think that Sochi was probably my favorite time spent. That was the best place to go. You can go skiing there and umm uhh go the beach. Like in the summertime you can go up to the mountains. 30, 40-minute drive from the beach and you got snow on the tops and then you go down it's just like 90 degrees' weather next to the beach, which is just kind of a cool place to see. And very beautiful. You got the mountainous area with like a bay and stuff like that. It's a fun place to go visit. You've got a lot of restaurants and you know beach life there. LB: Have you been back with your parents? DK: Uhh I went with my mom and dad, the first time, which was for a funeral for my grandfather and the second time I went with my mom. She really wanted to go and see her family. And the other times we left everybody at home and just went with my brother, because it was funnier that way. LB: When you would go with your parents would they reminisce with you? DK: Uhh. Not really. Everybody is. It's fun when you are visiting there but when you have something to compare like I mean I could live there if I had to, if I was forced to. I would be able to survive there, like I would probably have it easier than my parents, when they immigrated here because umm I know the language, which at least I can you know communicate with the locals there. Here they had to start from scratch, so I got that heads up if I had to live there. Umm but just the way of life here in America, everything is just more tuned in, for I think the way people live here is more comfortable. Just simple like shopping, like you go online and you can buy anything you want and they'll just like deliver it to your house. There if you want something specific you just got to scratch your head at where to get it. Like they have generic things but umm there's just so much shipping. Easier, the infrastructure here is uhh just more developed then there. They're a little behind in that. Like here you got UPS that'll come to your house you know, just drop it off. There you got to like wait for shipping forever and it's just easier I think here. LB: Interesting. HG: You said some more of your family also came over to America? DK: Yeah. HG: Did you stay in touch with them? DK: Yeah. HG: And have you visited them all around? DK: Everybody moved here first, initially to Binghamton. So uhh, my dad's brothers, my mom's sisters that were here before us. They lived here too and umm half of them moved away. Down South or to the bigger cities like Philadelphia, Charlotte, North Carolina, California. Umm I still have a few families that live here. We have a lot of cousins and stuff. I still have a lot of family that I keep in touch with. And my mom always made an effort for us to visit at least once a year all our relatives so we would keep in touch still. HG: Do you remember having any like big family gatherings while you were here? DK: Yeah. Well we have the Thanksgiving, like not that it's a Russian holiday or anything like that. It's just an opportunity to get together. Everybody has got those days off so, we took advantage of that, to meet up at one of our cousins' houses or our house. That was also crazy times, because you have so much people. Everybody has a big family and the houses aren't that big, so it was really crowded but it's fun. So we did that. And I think we occasionally get together with all the ones, all the relatives that still live here. Umm sometimes after church, for a BBQ or something like that. So we're kind of close, still intertwined and because we go to the same church too. I think that helps. We see each other all the time and I think every relative's family has you know somebody your age. So you got cousins your age and somebody to be friends with and you know it's when you get together, there's not a dull moment. LB: Mhmm. Who do you get along most with in your family? DK: Uhh. My immediate family? Well I have three brothers and I have no sisters. And all of us are like two-three years apart. I'm the oldest. I'm twenty-eight and my youngest brother is twenty-one. Uhh I work together with all my brothers right now so I get my social fill at work with them. I'll see them on the weekends too sometimes, when I go to my parents' house. So I'm very close with my brothers. LB: Within your family were there heirlooms passed down? DK: Uhh. No. Not really. Like when we moved away from there. We just kind of like traveling to the unknown sort of to America. Cause nobody's really been. We had one of our cousins, came here first. They were telling us how it was here. Don't bring anything with you. You don't need anything. They'll give you everything here you know. You got welfare, what-not. T' help you out the first time. So we sold everything we had. We left there. We just grabbed our clothes literally and we came here. So we didn't really bring anything. Just pictures from the old country, relatives and stuff. That's it. Nothing with real sentimental value, anything like that. LB: No. Do you remember what your house looked like? DK: Uhh, yeah, a little bit. It's changed a little bit over the years because we sold it uhh, it was almost done, but there were still a few places that weren't finished. So uhh when I went to visit I could see the changes. Garden in the back, a little bit gazebos, you know, stuff like that. We had an outhouse, when we used to live there and they made a bathroom inside, so those little things. So there is like uhh grape vines on, somebody planted that so. They got like a patio out in the front area and grapevines covering that so you can see like people set up outdoor tables and stuff there. So little changes. LB: And can you tell me about the floor plan on the inside? DK: It was a one-story house. There was like, walk-in, a kitchen. Uhh I think there was like two bedrooms. And there was like a living room-area. Umm we had uhh like a cellar, which was not finished. It was like a hole in the ground, where you could keep your canned food, there's some shelves. It' like different from our basements here. It's kind of like a third-world looking home. The ceiling or uhh the roof was uhh like made of metal sheets. It's not like, you have shingles here stuff like that. Just a little. Small little home. There was only two of us when, two of us uhh kids when we left there so it suited us fine. I remember the backyard had, like uhh big garden and so our backyard was connected to the neighbor across, who had a garden too, so they were adjacent to each other. Everybody lived like that. In the south people planted a lot of their own vegetables and stock up for the winter. LB: Hmm. Were you close with your neighbors? DK: Umm not really. Because it's kind of like when we lived there, we were uhh like Christian-Protestant and that was uhh looked down upon cause everybody, that country, the Soviet Union was based on atheism. And if you were Christian, you were looked at, like the enemy of the state. So all your neighbors kind of treated you bad. Cause they didn't want to kind of socialize with you. You were kind of looked at as outcasts of the society there. HG: So when you came to America, did you guys feel that you fit in better here and weren't like so out casted here, while still keeping in touch with your Russian roots and everything? DK: Well we felt, outcasted here a little bit because you were of a different culture, so it's just kind of a different umm segregation you could say. It's not like uhh you're going to get a hard time getting a job or anything like that but you couldn't get a good job, because you can't speak English and you're kind of weird. They put you somewhere in the back of the office you know. Less paying job. So, you couldn't get a good opportunity - you know good paying job unless you, you know had to get a, uhh you know go to school, get a degree in something. And that's like for my parents' generation that was kind of really hard to do. Because you know, you got two little kids in your arms that you just came here with. You got to pay the bills, so you ended up taking some crappy job somewhere. It's a hard laboring job and you work hard long hours to pay the bills and provide for your family. So we couldn't really move up. The only way to move up was kind of get your own business. Some kind of self-employed opportunity and then you could make some decent living. LB: Who did you get your hardworking attitude from? DK: Umm. My dad was hardworking but my mom's side is like more uhh. Well my dad had his own business there, so he came here with kind of entrepreneurial spirit. He had that. My mom's side is better at keeping money and managing it, so I kind of got a little bit of hybrid from both. So I got the work ethic from my dad but I'm more business savvy, I think from my mom's side. More strategic I think. My dad is just a hard-working guy. You know, try not to be a busy guy. Not to be a busy fool. You know, try to make money. LB: You said you brought over pictures. What was one of your favorite pictures? DK: Umm. I have this one album which is like only pictures of like uhh gatherings and just random day-to-day life. I think that's my favorite album. I have a wedding album that's brought. It's kind of cool to look at. I like the other one because it's got pictures of all our relatives. Umm like our dog we had there. My dad's motorcycle that he had. Just like cool little stuff like that. So I think that's my favorite one. LB: So in reference to weddings, how would they compare to weddings here? DK: Uhh well, for example from uhh if you're in a Christian background, you don't drink, there is no wild parties at your wedding. You have wild parties there too. Like people get drunk. You know make a big mess at the wedding. Or uhh the weddings over there are crazy, like if you are secular. So there's a lot of dancing uhh maybe wedding fights and stuff like that. It gets a little Jerry Springer over there. Umm but our weddings are you know more civil. So uhh like a typical wedding would be go to the cer- ceremony at the church. Then afterwards go to the reception. Umm you have a lot of songs, people wish nice things for you, bring you gifts, and umm we have the cutting of the cake and all that. Which is the same as over there too. HG: Umm going back to your religion, could you kind of give us a background on like your church? DK: Mhmm. Umm when our family immigrated here, there was one or two families that were Russian speaking. They were from the same uhh umm denomination as we were. And we used to visit American churches and uhh it was kind of hard for them to understand so they're like okay. Then a few more families started to move in here. And we were like okay why don't we start our own. So my dad was actually the one that organized the Russian-Ukrainian Baptist Church here. And he uhh him and our relatives and a couple friends, they joined up. And all the families had a lot of kids, like 8, 10 kids. So the church grew rapidly and you get families moving in. The 90s there was a lot of uhh immigration. The church kind of grew to a couple hundred members. And you know kids there, maybe up to like a hundred kids and stuff. So, like 40 to 50 people. So umm that's how it started. We were renting it first and for probably 15 years. Till we bought our own building, which was uhh Farmer to Market Road, across from Maine Endwell High School. The Spartan High School. It used to be Barrion Baptist Church, now it's the Russian-Ukrainian Baptist Church. There's a Presbyterian Church on the corner of Hooper Road and Farmer to Market. We're the second church. It's like that red brick building. HG: I think I've seen it because I've gone by that way before, so I probably have seen it. That's really cool. DK: We get uhh all the city gets together there to watch the fireworks and stuff on July 4th. So a lot of visitors. So uhh yeah that's how it started. Then we had people move to different places and then new people came moved from different states. We really-you don't really have a lot of immigration now. I mean we have a couple families that just moved from Ukraine. Uhh where Donetsk, Lugansk where the war is going on. So uhh they were uhh immigrated there as refugees. But otherwise there is no really big immigration going on anymore. Umm people uhh just kind of moving from different states, trying to look for a better opportunity I guess. Binghamton doesn't have too much opportunity here so people try to get out of here as soon as possible. My dad just moved here there was Endicott-Johnson it was in you know its dying days but it was still working. And he was a shoe smith so he got a job there. He worked there for a few years, then they moved to Texas. Umm, so just kind of, IBM was gone you know not a lot of tech jobs. You didn't have Locke Martin, BAE, umm but. Better opportunities elsewhere we're kind of stuck here cause family's here, the longer you live here, the more rooted you get, you know, you got a you got a house, you got a church, you got a business here. Umm so it's you know like the two lights on. HG: So you said earlier how you also went to SUNY Broome. DK: Mhmm. HG: What did you study there like get your degree in? DK: I was an aspiring dentist at first. Uhh I came here in 2005, I started to 2008 I got my Associates in Liberal Arts or Liberal uhh Associates in Science in Liberal Arts Degree. Did that and then I transferred to Binghamton University. Uhh I went there for one semester, then I got married, and then it was just hard to work and go to school and all that. So I quit that. Umm I wanted to be a dentist at first, like I said. And I think I just wanted to do that; it was to... I thought it was kind of a social status. Being a doctor here is cool. And they're respectable and they make decent money. And that's why I think, I wanted to go into that field. I started shadowing a lot of dentists, who worked in the dental office. And then uhh I kind of changed my mind on it. It wasn't the only way to make money. It wasn't worth all the student debt they're all in. I realized, you can make same digit doing other things. So I started my own business. Uhh I kind of fell back to dental laboratory. So I make uhh dental appliances, like dentures, crown-bridge, partials. Umm so it's kind of related to the dental field but minus the student debt. HG: Umm you also said earlier how you just you got married. Have you ever gone back to Russia with your wife? DK: No I would really like to but it's uhh kind of like a dream of mine. Umm it'd be really nice to, take my son. I have one son. To go there and just introduce my wife to my side of the family and meet her side of the family there. Her side's in Ukraine still. So uhh it would be really nice to do that. Yeah so, it's just a lot more money now. When I just left with my parents, you know you'd have to worry about the bills coming back and waiting for you. Uhh probably you'd just buy your ticket, which was like a thousand dollars and you know just some fun money. Because your relatives you know got everything else, you know the living expenses covered. Like 2 grand, is like more than enough to have fun there. Now it's gonna be like two tickets for my wife, for me, for my kid. So it's like 3 grand there, you know. Then we've going to have to travel to Ukraine and Russia now. LB: Hmm. DK: Uhh so. I need at least 5 grand to go there plus all the bills that wait for me when I get back. And all the time lost at work. You can't go for a week, you know. You need at least 2 weeks and that's Russia and everything. And that's not enjoying you time there. 3 weeks would be nice but working you can't afford to take 3 weeks off here and you might not have a job when you come back [Laughs]. LB: Can you tell us more about your wife? DK: Yeah she is uhh 5 years younger than me. Umm I meet her in New York. She's from Minneapolis. She uhh she moved there in early 2002 or something like that. She came here. I met her at one of the church events, one of the camps so. They came with their youth to our camp like I said our church network communicates. So they came here. Umm I met her after one of these typical camps. Started talking to her. We had a fairly quick wedding. I met her in our church and she left. Then in like two or three days later, I found her number on Facebook, started talking and chatting then texting, calling. Then a month later I went there, met her family. While I was there I figured I would propose while I'm there. LB: Aww! DK: So, I knocked it out in a month. And three months later, we had a wedding, which was here, in uhh Vestal. She moved here. And been married 5 and a half years now. LB: What was her family like? DK: Her family is very similar. She has a bigger family. We only have four kids in our family. They have seven kids. So she was one of the older ones. I'm the oldest in my family. She's the second oldest. So she had a lot of younger siblings still. Umm also very similar. Very hard, you know their dad's a painter, just typical trade work. Umm very close just like us. So she had a hard time moving away. She you know wasn't able to be as close with her sisters anymore because everybody is so far away. But her sister is getting married now, and moving here. LB: Oh wow. DK: Yeah, So she is going to have a buddy to hang out with. She can go shopping. I can do my guy stuff. HG: So you said you had, that one of your hobbies was that you like was working on cars? Why do you like working on cars so much? DK: Umm. Well one of the things is uhh my dad did them. For like that was one of his side jobs. He would fix cars, do body work. So I picked that up from him. Umm I don't think I-- I will correct myself, it's not really working on cars, it's flipping cars. Like buying and selling. So I like to buy cars and I don't know. I just like making money. And I think that's my thing. I found uhh I found my passion in life. Just so I can spend it and have fun you know? Get some enjoyment out of life. LB: I'm hoping I find that after college [everyone laughs]. DK: Yeah Yeah. HG: 12 minutes. LB: Is there anything else that you would like to add, that we didn't cover? Any interesting stories. A story about why your parents decided to emigrate? DK: Umm. Well, so I think my dad just got fed up with, the way of life there. Just the corruption, umm just wanted. Oh also now that I think about it everybody, all the guys have to go to the army there, when your 18 years old. So it was like a like a mandatory thing. Here you only go voluntarily if you want to. So my parents were kind of worried about that. My dad had a lot of brothers, and he knows how that life is. So he can, there is a lot of you know conflicts going on with Russia being involved militarily in campaigns, here and there. So they didn't want us to be stuck somewhere, and have to go serve, you know. Uhh so they kind of avoided that. Uhh nobody wants to raise their kids, to see them go die somewhere you know for some stupid cause. LB: Was your father in the military? DK: Yeah. He was uhh. Like I said when you're 18 you have to go serve for two years. But then basically every. You can, up until you have two kids or up until you're thirty years old or thirty-five years old. You can be drafted back in and be retrained and you have to update your knowledge. So there's always like you always get a letter. Come, go to the military post and go serve for another year or two. So like he was always trying to avoid that. Hiding out in relatives' house. And he moved from Ukraine, which helped. They kept sending mail there. So he was able to avoid that for a while. Till he had kids. Till he split from there. LB: Did he have any stories about the military? DK: Umm. Uhh. Like I said cause of religious persecution that kind of uhh. That that was affected in the military too. Like you were sent to the crappiest jobs there. You had to go like clean and like toilets or dig ditches and do the hard work. Nobody trusts you with a weapon anywhere. You were kind of sent to those kinds of jobs in the army. It's kind of more like a National Guard sort of style is where he was. Umm so, when you were there, people mistreated you, sent you to do hard work. But once he was there, after a while people realized you know, they're honest people, you can trust them and umm he had it fairly easily afterwards. He had uhh a good job where uhh he fixed boots and stuff for soldiers. He had it made afterwards. People would give him you know like gifts and stuff so he gives them nice boots, so they could go home and see their parents. He had a nice little sweet spot he found I guess. LB: Mhmm, he found his niche. HG: So did your dad only serve the two years that he had to? DK: Yeah. HG: Or did he serve longer? DK: Yeah he served the two years. Umm every time they sent him a letter, he was able to avoid it somehow. Some people try to get married early and have two kids before you're 18. I've heard stories about that. Avoid, find a loop hole. HG: It's like 9 minutes. So. DK: I'd say life in the states is good. Fairly. I like it here. Umm still have a sense of patriotism too. So it always kind of sucks when you see, you know, our government's conflicting. There is always this. Russia's trying to inspire to be a world power too and you know, America has its own interests. And it's always kind of worrying, when you hear rhetoric like that. So it'd be nice to get along [everyone laughs]. HG: It would be. Well thank you so very much for taking time to uhh let us interview you. We found it very informative. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dennis A. Kalashnik Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource Kalashnik, Dennis A. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Germany; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Russia -- History; Church; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kalashnik, Dennis A. ; Bretz, Logan ; Germann, Heaven Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Dennis A. Kalashnik is a Russian-Ukrainian Immigrant and business owner. He was born in Krasnodar Krai, Russia and came to the States in 1991 when he was four years old. Both of his parents are Ukrainian. He is married and resides in Endwell. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-13 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Dennis Kalashnik.m4a Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-04-20 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 52:20 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/71ae87a5cd1744c9575d68e564205975.jpeg 23b9b3b0526d5eca637485b644c9ecd3 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2f7dec43aa1994e5a82686ebddf39b68.mp3 a5b219f8ae3e8b0f1e3c31a9714833bb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright&nbsp; Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource <span>Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D.</span><br /><span>Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History</span> Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Heather DeHaan and Aynur de Rouen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Peter Hatala Biographical Text Dr. Peter Hatala was born in Johnson City, NY and he is a first-generation Ukrainian American. His father was an immigrant from Ulychne, Ukraine. Dr. Hatala is a retired orthodontist. He is married and resides in Vestal. He has six children and two grandchildren. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 81:41 minutes Date of Interview 2016-06-23 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Hatala, Peter. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Church; Ukrainian folk dancing; Broome County (N.Y.) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Peter Hatala Interviewed by: Heather DeHaan and Aynur de Rouen Transcriber: Marwan Tawfiq Date of interview: 23 June 2016 Interview Setting: St. John’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Heather DeHaan: So, first I want to thank you Dr. Hatala for agreeing to be interviewed. We are on Thursday of the 23rd of June 2016, and we are in the basement of St. John’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Johnson City– Peter Hatala: In the boardroom– HD: In the boardroom. PH: Right. HD: In the boardroom where we also have at our disposal a number of collections of family histories for members of the congregation um that were gathered at the initiative of doctor Hatala. So, could you begin by giving us your full name? PH: Uh, my name is Dr. Peter Hatala. I was uh born in Johnson City in New York on the North side, August 16th 1932, and uh I am a uh Johnson City Graduate, but uh before that um of course my roots have been my father Nicolas Hatala was from Ulychne in Austria-Hungary and uh he was born in 1882 and passed away I think in (19)73. HD: So, 1882 to 1973. PH: Right. HD: Okay, so um, first of all when did your father come to North America? PH: He came in uh 1910. I have his Ellis Island uh certificate, I do not have it with me, and my mother, I do not know when she came in, I was thinking around 1912 with her uncle or with her brother actually. There is only three in the family. So, she came with one of the brothers and actually here is the family trees signed by … that on the website and of my mother, right there. HD: Ok, so your mother was her name– PH: Kankavich? HD: So, we have it, Maria. PH: Yes. HD: Okay. So, Maria came with her older brother, her younger brother and a parent? PH: Josephine, yeah, her mother was Josephine. HD: Okay. PH: Came with an older brother and, they came through Ellis Island also but I could not get her Ellis Island certificate and a lot of it was the wording of the name or how it was spelled. I had a hard time getting my dad’s until I saw his name spelled in Polish with a J on the end, and his name was Nicolas. So, I never put a J on the end. But it was that is how I got his. So, I am going to try to get my mum’s too. I belonged to Ellis Island before, long time back and I am going to join again because I want to go there. My daughter lives in Long Island. And uh so I can hope over to Ellis Island very quickly when we go to visit them you know. I was going to do it this time over the July 4th weekend but it was not such a good time because it was going to be so busy and probably the safety part of it she said is not that good either you know, so– HD: Yeah, I want to go back to thinking about when your parents came through Ellis Island, do you know why they came, and did they come directly to Johnson City? PH: No, actually the reason why they came was just to have a better life from what they had and the fact at that time, this was in the early 1900s, you know, the lifestyle there was a lot different than it is today. So, I am sure they had hard times and they wanted to better their lives and everything that is why they came over here. My dad first came through Ellis Island and was in the Scranton, Olyphant area in Pennsylvania, and I did have an uncle in Olyphant but since then he has passed away so I have not really followed that that lineage there. But he worked in the coal mine for a while, did not like that so he heard about uh “which way EJ [Endicott-Johnson Shoe Company]” and decided to come to Johnson city and actually that was part of it but he had a farm outside of Windsor for a while and then left that and was in an apartment in Binghamton and then that is when he started working for EJ’s. HD: Okay, so he sold the farm then, in order to work at the factory? PH: I would think that he did but you know it was like 258 acres that they had but the funny part about it is, you know, all the EJ workers were building their own homes in Georgia for foot to mortgage and everything else you know. He was a phenomenal person and he built this area up you know really Johnson city but my dad bought a house on Harry L drive and it was just like a two-family house. He put an addition on, how he did it I have no idea, and but it ended up where he paid for that house too. So, I do not know where there a mortgage to EJ’s or not I do not really know. HD: Is the house still here? PH: Yes. In the corner of Harry L drive in Pearl Avenue. That is where I was born and raised. There is a little story about that house I will have to tell you afterwards, or I can tell you now. HD: Actually, tell us now I am very curious. PH: When I was probably about 12 years old or so. There is an empty lot next to our house and the Oasis restaurant. It was bout and the whole side of the building came a part like this and you know all the glass and everything and the glass in our house was gone and everything, and I remember that, you know. HD: I bet, I think anyone would… that must have frightened you. PH: But the reason why was he was still selling bears for five cents a glass and had to be the mafia or something and after that he you know followed the rules I guess. HD: Raised the price. PH: Yeah. HD: Wow. Was the Oasis Restaurant owned by a Ukrainian? PH: Yes, Mr. Golitruck. HD: Okay, I heard… We interviewed Mike, one of my students did so– PH: But we grew up with that family actually, you know, so he was very instrumental and keeping the Ukrainian traditions going because he loved the dancing and the plays that they used to have and he brought in student teachers then was Avramenko who was well-known and everything and he gave a class here that my brother and my sister were in that first class. So, this I think was before our church was even built. HD: This is a class in Ukrainian dance? PH: Ukrainian dance right, and plays and– HD: So, what was the name of the instructor again? PH: Vasyl Avramenko. HD: Avramenko, okay. PH: Yeah. HD: Okay. Very interesting. Um– PH: I never met him [laughs]. HD: [laughs] PH: I had the pamphlet that they had though, you know, so. HD: So, your mother’s family; are they also from former Austria-Hungary? PH: Yes. HD: From the same region? PH: Actually, if you are looking at Poland now; here is Poland here is Ulychne right here and down about, you know, I do not know maybe fifty miles or less maybe ten miles, I do not know, is Tara Vavruska. That is where my mum was from. HD: Okay. PH: So, it is the same area; Austria-Hungary. HD: Okay. Further south. PH: I do not know when they met, where they met, anything of that nature, you know. And during the war, before the second World War and a little bit afterwards my mum always kept correspondence with her family, you know, and in the late forties is when all correspondence stopped. So, she could not get a hold on them anymore and this was because the Polish and the Russian government split up the families and their whole family was split up. So, actually I ended up meeting my uncle Leon Gancevich when I was over there with my daughter Pan. And he lived right next to the German border, so that is where he was transported from one side of Poland and they split up the whole families. You could not go two people from one family going to the same place. Split them all up. HD: So, this was deliberate then? PH: Yes, yes yeah! HD: Wow! Um go– PH: But actually, a lot of it was the Russian influence too not only the Polish influence you know, but um, yeah. HD: But now you are… are you in touch with anyone else on your mother’s side apart from– PH: I was with Leon in fact, my two granddaughters when they came and met us he brought us his brother and, no must be his son. And then two granddaughters and they had just taken two years of English. So, they were the interpreters because I could not speak Polish, I could understand a little bit of Ukrainian but, and that is a different story too. HD: That means they grew up speaking Polish not Ukrainian? PH: Yes. HD: Okay. That makes sense. PH: Well actually, you know, like my mum or my dad was Ukrainian but he could speak Polish. My mum was Polish but she could speak Ukrainian, so they talked both languages there. HD: Okay. PH: Possibly even, you know others too, I do not know. But they wanted to learn English especially my mom because my dad working in EJ’s, you know, got a lot of that so he was a citizen already and my mom was not. So, I used to teach her, you know, all the questions and everything that had to be done and that was great. HD: Did your mom learn Ukrainian? PH: Was she what? HD: Did she learn Ukrainian because she grew up she was Polish? PH: She knew Ukrainian, yeah. No, she… You know I would think that she was Ukrainian. I never thought that she was from that side of the, you know, from Polish. But the name of course is a Polish name, you know. So– HD: Very interesting– PH: But I always thought she was Ukrainian. AD: What was the language in the house when you were growing up? PH: It is very interesting because both my parents wanted to learn English and of course, you know, my growing up I could not really do too much with them but my brothers and sisters did too while they were still living there. So, I kind of grew up by myself because by the time I was 12 or so or younger my brothers and sister had already been married and moved out of the house. So, they were stuck with me [laughs]. HD: How many of them? How many children were there in your family? PH: Five; two brothers and two sisters. Yeah, in fact this year, my two older sisters passed away; one at 92 and one at 96, and one in February and one in April. Yeah, so we came back from Florida a little bit quicker, than what we wanted too, you know, and my first sister Annie passed away in February, so I came back and you know went through all of that and they were sharp as tacks, really, you know, unbelievable. And my sister Mary especially, you know. But I spent some time with them before and I came home about a week before my sister Mary passed away so I came home on a Sunday. I spent a whole day, Monday with her, she lives in Port Crane and we talked for about two hours, you know. And she says I am getting better every day. So, you know, and I talked to her every day, went up there a couple of times and talked to her on Saturday before she passed away. So, it was nice. HD: Did everyone stay in this region, so your brothers and both of your sisters? PH: Yes, both of my brothers did, both of my sisters did. HD: And are they all members of this church? PH: Yes, well no my two brothers married couple of Polish girls from St. Stanislaus so, that was the church that they went to, you know. They stayed with their wives. HD: Okay. PH: But we are a family we are still very close. HD: Yeah, and I guess my other questions do you all in your homes maintain Ukrainian or Polish right, some sort of homeland tradition and practices? PH: Mostly Ukrainian. HD: Okay. So, this is intriguing to me. Why the Ukrainian when you also have Polish in your heritage? Do you have any idea? PH: I think a lot depends on the traditions, you know, as far as our immediate family it was always Ukrainian, and actually my wife was Catholic, Roman Catholic, we got married in a Roman Catholic Church but I stayed with St. John’s and she stayed with Saint James and at that time the Catholic religion was changing a little bit you know, it went from Latin to English, and then they had music in the churches and everything else too, you know, so she was kind of disenchanted with that, so I think about three years into our marriage she, we sat with father and Pani and uh she decided to change. So, she did. She is a great Ukrainian, Polish– HD: [laughs] PH: And Slovak. [laughs]. She was Polish and Slovak, yeah. HD: Okay, that makes sense, um now with your wife’s family, was she also born in Johnson City, did she grow up in Johnson City? PH: I did not, she did. HD: And her parents worked at EJ? PH: Actually, her dad worked at EJ’s first, her parent her mom they had eight kids so she was a stay-at-home mom. Then he left EJ’s and worked for IBM. He worked evenings because he was an avid golfer so he would golf during the daytime and worked at night. HD: Wow! [laughs]. So, before I wanted before I talk about your own family, you know, raising kids, I am really curious about um life on the street, near where you grew up because you know there was Ukrainian quarter store, the Oasis is Ukrainian restaurant, there are two, now there are two Ukrainian churches on this hill, there must have been a lot of Ukrainian people living on the same street, what was it like when you– PH: Yes and no. They were kind of spread out all over the place. I mean there is a couple of families on Myrtle avenue, there is, there quite a few on Pearl avenue, some on Harry L drive, you know right in that whole section on the North side primarily. And it was because there was a church there and the church originally was in a grocery store. It was Kiriam’s grocery store on Harry L Drive that was where they had services to begin with. And then they went from there when the church was built they went from there and right up to the church on Virginia Avenue. And that was in, the church was built in 1929 but the church itself was started like in 1926 that was when they had a Ukrainian community there, you know. And my parents were one of the founding families also. So, there were you know quite a few families and it was interesting how they started though, you know, so– HD: So, when you had time to play as a kid, did you mostly play with your siblings, did you go on the street and play with other kids on the street, did you go to the church? PH: Not my siblings were– HD: They were older– PH: Yeah, they were older so, and actually none of them graduated from high school. I was the first son to graduate from high school. HD: Interesting– PH: So, in those days, you worked, you know as soon as you could you support the family and help the family and both my brothers worked for Endicott Johnson. They both had Endicott Johnson homes, you know. So, that was one of the things too, you know. Maybe my brother Nicks was not in an EJ home, I do not know but my brother Joe’s was. He was the oldest one anyway. But my growing up we had about 20 or 30 guys in that whole neighborhood but like over two or three streets and everything, and very active but especially sports, you know. But we did not, you know, twelve years old when father and Pani came here. That’s a different story I will get into that after, but actually our neighborhood was just strictly, you know with the boys we played Kick the Can in the street and other things you know. Hide and go seek, kids I do not think do that anymore [laughs], except maybe in the house. HD: [laughs], yeah-yeah. PH: But it was a great growing up, you know. And my parents were fantastic, I mean we had no car, did not have a car we walked every place, you know. And they were great parents. HD: So, your father walked to work? He worked to EJ? PH: Yeah. Walked to EJ’s. I walked to high school. I walked to Harry L Drive; I walked to Johnson City High school to see Fred. You know, so I did walk. HD: Wow! PH: Getting little tears in my eyes. HD: [laughs]… What about, how much was the church a center of social life beyond just Sunday? PH: For me it was and anybody in that age range really was more when father and Pani came when I was 12 years old, but there was a lot before that because I was an altar boy at seven that was usually when you can become an altar boy and we had, we did not have Ukrainian dancing then. I mean there, I think there was an older group but we also were very instrumental and singing our Christmas Carols on the seventh of January, and we used to go from house to house when I was a kid you know we started Ukrainian school at the age seven and it was five days a week from four to five o’clock in the afternoon. I hated every minute of it, because that was when we played in the neighborhood, you know after school. So, as a consequence our teachers were not that good and probably was a priest or somebody else I remember, you know, and as a consequence I did not learn very much Ukrainian and my parents did not teach me Ukrainian. They wanted know English. So, you know I spoke to them in English and they spoke to me in an Americanized Ukrainian, you know, so that is how we got along. But, you know, like I said at that time like when I was seven, I think my sister Annie maybe still home but my two brothers and older sister were not, you know, so, but I feel badly about that now because I started in a choir when father and Pani came I was under a couple of other priests as an altar boy but when I came when I was 12 when they came in he wanted to start the choir so he put me in the choir and took me of the altar because he had a lot of altar boys. So, I started singing tenor in a choir now I am a bass [all laugh] but since I was 12 so I am still, you know, I have been singing almost 72 years. HD: You are still there. Wow! PH: In a choir so. HD: And I have heard your choir, it is beautiful. PH: It used to be a larger choir than what it is now, but you know and it was great, all my kids sang in a choir too in order once; my son Mark, my daughter Pam and the other ones did not sing too much there but they know all the Christmas and carol’s and things. So, when I was seven they had a children’s choir that we went. We used to walk in Johnson city just couple of streets in a winter time in a snow and that is how we did it, you know, they had another regular choir from our church choir that went around and you know to all the houses and things and they had an adult choir. They used to go to all the Oasis’ and night clubs, not the night clubs but the other beer joints or whatever restaurants… so we had three choirs back in those days. HD: So, I am curious because you know this hill that the churches on, there are a lot of EJ houses and the streets go straight up the hill. Did you walk up those hills? PH: Oh, yes. HD: How did you have enough breath to sing [laughs]? Wow! PH: You know it is funny because growing up we had the CFJ pool, you could swim there for nothing. We did not do that. We used to build dams in a creek you know, and we had that were six and eight feet deep. That was how they were. So that is what we did. That was kids growing up but we still went to the CFJ pool too. But that is where we played in the creek you know. We used to play under water tag and you know water was clear so we would get side throw it in, dirty the water up so you could not see anything. That is how we played. [all laugh]. HD: Most people want clean water, right? PH: Well, you know, we did not so we could not see each other you know. HD: Yeah, that is great. PH: That is great and then, as far as walking up to hills, we used play in the hills all the time, and we would also go up Stella Island Road to, it used to be a dairy farm up there that had a little pond. So, we used to, we even built a damn that far up in a creek you know, so that was up until I was like 12 years old or so, you know. So that is what we did. HD: So, the rule was you could play until supper time? PH: Uh Actually, when I was going to the Ukrainian school from like about 7 until 10 I think, I think after that I do not know what happened, maybe it was more than that, you know, tough to remember back [all laugh] that time, you just remember the good things in, but else happened you know. So, the neighborhood itself really very-very, you know, it was just really a good bringing up, you know, kids do not do that anymore. And right on the corner across the street from us was Collis’ grocery store and a gas station there. So that was always the headquarters. We would always be sitting there. So, my mother came out about 9 o’clock at night and say, she would say, Peedie come home [laughs] and I would get embarrassed all the time. So, I was probably one of the youngest ones in that group, you know, of the 20 or 30 that we had. So, I was the all-time center in a football team. I get killed all the time, and we used to get on a bus in Johnson City on Main Street travel to Endicott with our football gear on, play an Endicott team and come back on a bus. The parents never took us anywhere, of course my parents did not have a car but the other parents did not take us anyplace either, you know. So, this is how we grew up. HD: Did your wife grow up in the same neighborhood? PH: She grew up on Reynolds Road which was kind of the Oakdale such in a Johnson City. That is where she went to school; Oakdale. All of our group went to Harry L Drive. So that is what it is now. It is an apartment house or a nursing home now. HD: So how did you meet your wife? PH: That is a good story [laughs]. It had to be I think about 1956 because I got home from the service then and I was tending bar at Saint Jon’s social club and some of the girls from our church were good friends with her. And they came down and I think it had to be when she was 18 because I think I made her, her first screwdriver, so you know, I remember that and she remembers that. So, that is when we met, you know, we just met to say hello that was it, you know. And a couple of the girls from my church were in her same little group in school. So that is how I met. So, I became interested and uh actually I was about uh 26 when I got married and she always she was thirteen. [all laugh]. But she was not. So, a couple years after that we got married. I think the following year it had to be, no it had to be let us see more than maybe (19)57 is when I went to Georgetown and second year is when we got married, my second year after Georgetown. HD: So, why did you go to Georgetown? PH: Dental school. HD: Okay. PH: At first, I, actually I got out of the high school in 1950. I worked for a year I did not go to college, and I worked as a bookkeeper and truck loader at Douglas Collins Supply Company for a year. And then I went to Broome which was not Broome then it was New York State Institute of Applied arts and Sciences. So, I went there for two years in Chemistry. I thought I was going to be a chemical engineer. And I got interested in Dentistry after I have got out of service. But before that there is no reason why I would become a dentist as a youngster and we did not have regular dental care or anything, you know, so I went to the EJ dental clinic and I had three first molars extracted– HD: Not a great experience! PH: So, how would I want to be a dentist you know– HD: Oh, no. [laughs]. PH: So, those teeth actually came in, my third, my second and my wisdom teeth came in, three of them and I just had one wisdom tooth that I have had taken out eventually. But that was it. HD: So, when were you on service? PH: 1954 to 1956. HD: Okay. PH: I was in a Signal Corps, and I went to a foreign country, Puerto Rico. HD: Oh. [laughs] PH: For two years. HD: Was it a good experience? PH: Yes, very much so. HD: So, anybody else, I do not know how it works in military, is there anyone else from this region that went with you, signed up at the same time, ended up in the same area? PH: There were two that came from this area that went to… we had to go up to Syracuse for a physical, and once we went through there, we went to basic training together but then we got split up during basic training. HD: Okay, and then you met your wife after you came back? PH: Yes. HD: You said was the Saint John’s social club? So, tied to this church? PH: Yeah. HD: Interesting. PH: That is in the memorial center, still is there. HD: Okay, so was it open every evening or once a week? PH: Well, I think it was open every evening back then, yeah. HD: And they had a bar you said? PH: They had a bar, yeah. And of course, I would be in the bar we did not get paid or anything but you know that is how it was. HD: And did a lot of people come including people from outside the Ukrainian community? PH: When I was a bartender we had, we made the most out of anybody there that whole month. HD: [laughs] That is great. PH: Because I got all my friends in, you know so. HD: Yeah. So that whole crowd of 20 or 30 you hang out with, did they all come? PH: Well not that many but a few, yeah. HD: Okay, that is really good. So, now you met your wife, in that interlude between meeting your wife and actually marrying your wife, for instance when you brought her home, I mean your parents are already Ukrainian-Polish mixed, so they must have been thrilled, did they care what her background was? PH: My mother said why you do not marry a nice Ukrainian girl. HD: What [laughs], okay? PH: But my wife Phyllis was fantastic, you know. HD: Yeah, they could not… what about her family? Did they want a nice Polish boy? PH: No, not really. I just taught her mother a little Ukrainian saying, and once I told her what it was that was it you know. So, she loved me from that time on. HD: What was the saying? PH: [all laugh]. In fact, I told Phyllis this too, so she memorized it, I did not tell her what it was. [speaking Ukrainian] HD: Okay, and can we have the quote? What does it mean? PH: “How are the chickens shitting?” HD: Oh. [laughs] PH: So once her mother knew that, that was it. HD: That is very funny. [laughs] PH: [speaking Ukrainian] HD: Yeah. So, now– PH: So actually, I met her that first time after my first year in dental school, so the second year is, or it had to be the first year that I met her because then we start going out through now like, she would not go out at first and then we did go out for like two weeks and that was it. And I was wearing a new outfit just about as much as I could so after first week or a week and a half so I had to go back to what I wore before actually and she did not but I did not know she was borrowing clothes from her girlfriends. HD: [laughs] Oh, that is great. PH: Yeah, she had a different outfit on all the time. So, we went for two weeks we had such great time. We went out every night after the first date. You know. HD: Where did people go? PH: We went to, first date, we went to Schnitzel bank which was a restaurant on upper Court Street, and they had these little straws and we used to break them and it would fly up to the ceiling so we kept doing that we just had such a good time and good dinner and everything, and then after that we went to one of the pick stands in Endicott and that was it we had such a good time. HD: So now you… after you went to dental school, you got married– PH: I got married after my second year of dental school. HD: After your second year? PH: Yeah. HD: Okay. PH: During the second year. HD: When you finished dental school, did you work for someone else? Did you set up your own dental office? PH: I was already accepted to Ortho-school when I was a senior I had applied and we had our first child then, and it was like in May of the year I was supposed to go up to Buffalo for an interview, Pam was being born, she was born in April but she was. It was still, you know, was not ready to… it was the first part of April. I was in the middle of the final exams and had no money to go from Washington D.C. to Buffalo, so I called and told them, and said I cannot do it. So they put me on an alternate list and so when I got out of school, when I graduated, I worked for another orthodontist, Dr. Orchard in Binghamton and of course they wanted me to come in to the practice and everything too you know, but I was only there a couple of weeks and set up a preceptorship program and at that time you could do it that way but it had to be approved by the American Orthodontic Association. So, it was approved but the problem was I set up the program and you know, so I did not get much input from Dr. Orchard. So, I knew I could not get the education I needed so I was there like two months and it was approved and everything and I called Buffalo again and they said well come up for an interview which I did, and when I, they said well we will accept you the following September. So, when I went back and told Dr. Orchard he was not very happy but I told him why and I said, it is changing and everything and you just have to have the education. So that is what happened. But he still had me on a payroll and everything, you know I was getting 75 dollars a week and that is what kept us going so, that was really you know. That is how it was. So, when I came back after that of course during that first year with Dr. Orchard is when Dr. Mark was born and we went up to actually I went up to Buffalo myself for three months, my wife came up after about three months or so, and she was expecting then and that is where Jeffry was born in Buffalo. So, Pam was born in Washington… right where one of the Kennedy’s was born at the same time so, I met him there when I was… We watched him coming to the hospital, you know and everything. Pam was interesting because that was our first born and we did not know what was up or down and the OB guy we had was fantastic, you know, he did not charge us a nickel and the… he wanted to know what kind of anesthesia you wanted, you know, and my wife did not want any pain she said I do not want to feel any pain or anything baba so we had a general anesthesia, believe it or not they do not do that anymore. HD: No! PH: So Pam’s first breath was taken after about 12 minutes after she was born and I have it right on her medical records and everything and I did not get that until Pam became, she went to nursing school at Georgetown, So I said pull up your record and make a copy for, you know, so she did 12 minutes underlined in red first breath, so of course they did not cut the umbilical cord anything you know but that is what happened. HD: So, now we asked before the interview, but I am looking at the information again now how many children do you have? PH: Six. HD: Six. How many boys, how many girls? PH: Three boys, three girls. HD: Okay, and do they all still live in this area? PH: All live in the area except my daughter Pam who, not Pam but Nicole who married a boy and from Massapequa park in Long Island and they came here, they lived in New Jersey for a while, they came back here and he got his MBA at SUNY Binghamton and so they lived here for a while then at that time he was working after that he worked for IBM for a little bit of time, then once his friend from Wall Street was a managing director up in stockbrokerage firm in Boston and he took a job up there. So, you know they got them a free ride up there and everything else and he became actually a managing director himself while he was up there. So, she is in Boston my other daughter Christie when Nicole got married another boy from Massapequa park was in the wedding ceremony too so he kind of liked Christie so they were going back and forth and they got engaged and disengaged and got engaged and then finally got married, so then she moved to Massapequa park. That is where she is now. The other four stayed here. HD: And what events… I think you said that they come… everybody comes and they gather here for Ukrainian Christmas? PH: Ukrainian Christmas right, on the 7th of January– HD: And the Festival, in mid of July. PH: Oh, the ones that can, make it from out of town. But they usually do and we do it on Easter, so our Easter is always… so it is different from American Easter, they would all come in the town on Easter. And my wife does all the cooking. AD: Ukrainian? Does she cook Ukrainian? PH: Yeah. Well we have Haluski and Pierogi and you know. HD: So also, how many grandchildren do you have? PH: Nineteen. HD: And how many great grandchildren? PH: One and a half. [all laugh]. One year old, she is like fifteen or sixteen months. She is unbelievable. You know, she calls me Beepa. Well, Pam called us Meema and Beepa, she could say Grandme and Grandpe, so my wife is a Meema, I am a Beepa. We used to have that on a license plate, but we do not have it anymore. HD: So, raising you children, was important to you that they knew something about Ukrainian tradition? PH: Well they were involved in a church all the way through their young life, adult life and afterwards. HD: So, what is it…? What aspects of Ukrainian culture are particularly valuable you think for your children and grandchildren? PH: Well we have to go back to when father and Pani came in 1945 because they were a big influence on us, and they had the ability to be a member of everybody’s life, you know. Everybody thought that you know, they were part of their family which is really true. So, we used to say to our kids, if you do not behave we are going to tell father and Pani. So that was kind of a hammer over their heads you know, but they were fantastic people. And they instilled the traditions, you know the caroling, the dancing. They started the dance group when they first came. And I was 12 then but she said to the boys then and there was a couple of thirteen, fourteen look you do not have the dance with any of the girls, you just do the sort dance and the woodcutters and bluh-bluh … So, then we did that for a little bit of time and then she kind of introduced us to the female aspect of it with dancing, you know we did not dance with girls then, you know. It is different in today but that is what happened. So, we had a great dance group. We probably gave pretty close over that ten-year period time that I danced probably over 100 premises you know all over the country. We used to do it for the EJ dinners and stuff that they had there too. We would have dancing there. We also had an Andrews Sisters act that we put on too myself, George Stasko and John Milwaukee and we did that for a while too but somewhere in those books. HD: So, when you were raising your children, and it might not be even a Ukrainian thing, right what were some of the… what are some of the traditions that brings your children seem to cherish and really want to hold on to, the things that really brought your family together? PH: Well I think it has to be the main stays for the Ukrainian music, you know, the Christmas Carols, the choir carols and things. It had to do with the dancing because they all grew up when they were, started dancing, at two to three year of age and they still do. And it had to be the Christmas celebrations, the Easter celebrations, so and then on January the 7th we used to carol from house to house. And we still do that today, and right now we go… we used to go by cars all the time you know, in the snow and sometimes all the cars would get there sometimes they would not, they get lost or whatever. Now we have a bus, and we all get on a bus and you know, even the young ones and we go. HD: That is great! PH: Yeah. HD: So, do all your children go to Ukrainian Orthodox Churches? PH: Uh-huh. Yep. HD: Great. PH: My daughter goes to… there is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Boston but we go also to an Albanian one. It is the same divine liturgy and everything so, because it is close by and the Southern one is you quite a distance yeah when we go up there we go to Albanian Church. But we have gone to the Ukrainian Orthodox too, so. HD: So, this is something I am curious about too; and it is not necessarily though Ukrainian history per say because the liturgy is shared even though the language changes from one church to the next an Orthodox tradition, do you find you can go to any Orthodox Church and feel very much at home. PH: It is the same Divine Liturgy that may put in a few of the ethnic languages in there but it is all the same Divine Liturgy, you know, and actually Orthodoxy was before Catholicism. So, that is how it started, you know. And so, it goes back, you know that far. HD: That is right. PH: But it has not changed. It is the same Divine Liturgy, you know. HD: What about icons, do you have icons at home? PH: Uh-huh HD: Okay, and are they for religious purposes or are they art? PH: Well, as far as icons are concerned, in our home themselves, we have some but it is not like you would have a lot of them, you know. There was a church in Dover, Florida that a monk built himself. He was actually a doctor and worked in University of Tampa, and that is the most icons I have ever seen in any place. He brought them back from Ukraine and you know, and it was just fantastic, it was a small church almost like almost like our old Church on Virginia Avenue, and he built a rectory actually it was a monastery and he built a memorial center with his own money and I have been there quite a few times and actually whenever the metropolitan, at that time he was a bishop and an archbishop but now he is metropolitan but, would come in to town there so he would always call us and say you got to go to Dover you know because I will be there. That was when we went to Dover. And it was about an hour plus drive from where we were and but I am talking about the young canister, so that is the most I have ever seen. I have been to Ukraine a couple of times and I have been to some of the museums there and everything. Iconography, was you know, was very big there. So– HD: I mean my question was in part whether very traditionally in you know Ukrainian peasant homes or Russian peasant homes they would have an icon corner for instance, right? PH: Yeah. HD: And so, I am wondering if anything of that was carried over to North America an antique in contemporary homes? PH: Well I think it has in a lot of the homes and things. It was not necessarily in ours to begin with. And the iconography, Andreov who lives in Lisle or Whitney Point one of those places was the one that was instrumental and did our iconography behind the altar here, so and that actually was… I was on that iconography committee and it almost split the church in half because of what was happening, Andreov was actually Russian iconographer and it was not so much him as it was the priest we had at that time father Zaroski and who was from Lviv in Ukraine and I have been in Lviv which is a beautiful city and that is a whole different story there but the thing is, the iconography seemed to divide the church because of things they were happening and what they wanted to put up there and what they did not, you know, we had a committee and the committee decided which… what we should have and during like in the middle part of the thing the iconographer wanted to put in a couple of seraphym and cherabum and just we did not want have that in there. So, we took that part out of it, out, and then what happened is that we got a call and I got a call and one of the other guys on the committee called said you know, you got what you wanted now. You wanted these angels on each side of the icon wall and that is where he wanted on the outside of the icon wall, not on the inside where the icon is. You know, so they put it, he put it on the inside without telling the committee or doing anything and you know that kind of you know really made it hard and half the church was okay with-it half was not, you know, so that is really what happened. HD: I do have to say as someone who is not a member of the church and who is not really well-versed in iconography it is a real pleasure to come into a church like that, and I grew up Calvinist, there were no images, and so it is a particular… it brings joy, you know to see it. PH: Right, it does. Icons actually do that. They really do. HD: Yeah. So, we have been talking for over an hour and I do not want to– PH: We have been talking that long? HD: Yeah. So, is there something that I did not ask you that you really wanted to share or were hoping I would ask you? PH: I had somethings here that not about my… but I did on jobs and things I do not think that is really important although I had some very unusual once. Growing up we used to pick beans on a daily basis, peas and beans and a truck would pick us up right on Harry L drive, we go to the fields pick the beans, used get fifty cent a bushel, and it took you a long time to do a bushel. [laughs] HD: Oh, yeah. PH: So, and then drop you off at night. Well one summer, they slogged it, some of the guys in our group, we went up to Norwich and we stayed there for like two, almost three months during the summer. No parents, no parental control, nothing you know, just us, but it was our same group from the area, you know, plus they had other people too, you know but so we pick beans and peas for almost two and a half months. HD: Where did you stay? PH: We stayed in shacks that they had, you know it was kind… like you would see in the movies– HD: Shacks without houses? PH: Shacks with you know bedroom and then they had an outhouse and everything you know. But that is where we used to stay in. AD: How old were you? PH: I had to be probably, probably I was in thirteen, fourteen, 12, 13, 14 area range. HD: This is interesting too, so you worked. This would have been a summer job. PH: Yeah, a summer job. HD: Did you keep your wages or you expected to contribute to the family? PH: Actually, if I remember right I kept my wages. And I remember buying a very colorful sweater and that was it, you know [all laughs]. And when my mother saw that she said, you know, how much did you pay for this, you know, so but we did not make a lot of money, you know, but it was more of… we used to go swimming in a river there, you know, so it was just that was what we did here too, you know, we swam in a river in the Susquehanna many times. HD: How did you find that job? Like did someone come to your high school was– PH: No, this was the job that they did during the summer. These trucks would come and if you wanted to work, that is how you pick peas and beans. HD: Oh, you just went down to Harry L and– PH: yeah, they would just pick us up, you know– HD: Interesting. PH: we probably had 10 or 12 guys went, you know from our area here. And– HD: Did women ever go? Was it mostly young people? PH: Mostly I do not remember too many women going, no. There were no women at the thing in Norwich, they were just men. HD: Oh, yeah, very interesting. Is there anything else? PH: I took Chemistry, you know at Broome, and I was hired by Columbia Gas in Pittsburgh because my next-door neighbor worked for Columbia Gas here, so he said why you do not see what they have, you know. They have an opening there. So, I called and two of us from the class went there and we were accepted. We were building a Chemistry lab, took us two weeks to do that, got all the equipment and everything for testing corrosion on a gas pipeline. Okay, so we had that all done in two weeks. I get a call on entry office and the bus wants me to Willing West Virginia in charge of a 26-inch gas construction line, and you do the corrosion on it too. So, I said I do not know anything about construction or anything he said well, just check with the supervisor, that was it, you know. So went myself by myself, you know I went in for the power wagon and things drove all the way down from Pittsburgh to Willing, West Virginia. It was the first time I was in a power wagon [laughs] had no idea what to expect but anyway a good old redneck all-timer took me under his wing and we got the job done. I am sitting in the dugout where the pipeline is going, you know, and I am checking, putting in some test wires and things and I get up to go out and here is the pipeline up above and a cable snaps bang right where I was sitting– HD: Oh, wow! PH: So, that was I remember that experience very clearly, so yeah. That was kind of-of unusual, you know, then another one I had to do as I had, after that was done, I was put me on another job there was just the two of us from Broome tech and four engineers and I went with this one engineer to Cumberland, Maryland to put in a six foot carbon thing in a water tank, you know these big water tanks you had to climb up and everything. So, I was with this engineer who was afraid of heights. So, I had to carry everything up on that back and forth, a settling torch and all through you know put it on the well into the tank and everything and that was probably one of the worst jobs I have ever had. You know, that was– HD: yeah, so who was sending you on these jobs? Who was your employer, who was sending you on these jobs? PH: It was the guy who was in charge of the corrosion, the department. He was in charge of, he and four other engineers, and the two of us that set up the… and the other guy went with was the guy who was testing the corrosion lines in lab but I did not do that [all laugh]. HD: So, you did this and then before you went to the service? PH: Yeah. HD: Very interesting. PH: After, in fact I came home and worked for six weeks at home, putting in corrosion lines from where Quaker Lake is from that area north for about six weeks, so I put in all the corrosion lines along that pipeline. And then I went back to Pittsburgh and I got drafted. So, they wanted to keep me out, I said no I am going to go in, not knowing– HD: Where– PH: You know, so I was like had to be like about 22 years old. HD: So, was it the experience of having to climb up that water tank that made you decide to be a dentist? PH: No, [all laugh]. I got interested in dentistry after I got out of the service really, and I checked into it and I needed one-year biology in order to get in to the criteria that I needed for dental school. So, I checked with one of the dentists who was a New York State president, New York State Dental Society Dr. Irvy and he said do not go to dentistry. He said it is changing so badly that you know and of course I did not know anything about orthodontics then either but I said well, I still thought being your own boss and you know and doing everything you know that would be the thing to do, so that is what I did. AD: So, your son took over your practice, he is the only other one who studied orthodontics? PH: My youngest son is also a general dentist. AD: Okay. PH: And I let him make up their own mind, I did not push him into dentistry or anything else. So, he did about the same thing that Mark did. So, to get into Eastman Dental you usually have to have two years of general practice, general dental practice and so, Mark and Peter both went to general practice residency in Eastman, first year, second year they took a TMJ, temporomandibular joint course for a year and then you could get into orthodontic school. Right now, I have a grandson Patrick who just graduated from Buffalo Dental. He is accepted to the Orthodontic program at Eastman. He started in 27th of this month, without any experience. That was probably because Mark was on the staff of Eastman Dental, because he still goes up there and teaches up there. So, that is great and Patrick could come back in maybe go take over Mark’s practice. HD: Do you have any family members who work in the practice like behind the desk? PH: Oh, yeah. Well, my wife took care of the pay rolling, when she was when I was working. Both Mark worked in the lab in fact when he was a senior in high school. I sent him up to Buffalo for a week to learn how to all the models and retainers and things, ok, so that was his experience there. All my other kids who worked in the office do as much as I could get them… Mark’s kids do too. AD: Was your office like his office, because we call his office like Disney world? PH: I was in a home. It was Doctor Orchard’s practice, and actually there is an apartment upstairs, and it was a small, you know, we had four operatory and it was tiny but we used all the space that you could. So, Mark was in there about ten years. And I was there when three years after Mark took over. So, that is where it started. It was not like Disney world but we did a lot of nice things you know. We started the scholarship things he gives out every year; ten scholarships, ten or twelve. AD: Yes, he uses a lot of character work is that from you? PH: Well that is when we were together, yeah, we started that. And but he is the entrepreneur too, you know. That is really good. So, he takes a school, you know at least one student from each school is gets a scholarship, you know, so. In fact, he just got something from the Binghamton School system too because we give things to the health area you know and some other things there that he has been doing all that time too. You know so. It is we started way back when… So, it is nice. Yeah. HD: It is great. AD: I always ask this question, so I will ask you too. So how do you identify yourself? PH: How do I identify myself? AD: Yes, like when people ask let us say you are somewhere they do not know you, and how would you say I am American– PH: I am Peter Hatala, you know. I am Ukrainian. AD: So, you say I am Ukrainian? PH: Yeah. AD: Okay. PH: I mean if you get into that conversation, yes. AD: Of course, like when you get in. So, being Ukrainian is part of your identity? PH: But usually I say oh, I have six children and 19 grandchildren. [all laugh] AD: Of course. PH: I do not say one and a half grandchildren. So– AD: So how about your children? Do they identify themselves as Ukrainian or American-Ukrainian? PH: I think they would say Ukrainian also. Of course, American-Ukrainian, you know. Yeah, I think they would. AD: So that is still, that is really important; that it is still continuing that– HD: Did your children marry Ukrainians? PH: No. Pam married an Irish man. Actually, when they came back to this area, they came back here. They continued dancing in their adult lives, Bill was Irish and he did Ukrainian dancing, you know. HD: Especially there is a lot of work for the men– PH: I remember singing at Robinson and putting on, not only the singing, you know the choir, but also, they were dancing and both Pam and Bill were dancing at the time there, so yeah. That is Pam; Mark married a redneck from West Virginia [all laugh]. And they still talk to it; she was from Pittsburgh, West Virginia. One red light in the whole town, okay, so we went into this one establishment. There a restaurant and I think they still talk about it, you know. Yeah, that was quite a party. It was interesting because Mark likes to do things unusual too, so when we had the dinner, you know after the ceremony and everything in this one building we found an old black coffin. So, we put Mark in the coffin and carried him in for the dance. HD: Wow! [laughs] PH: Yeah, opened up the coffin and he comes back out and… [laughs] that was a fun time. That was Mark, let us see. The next one would be Jeff who married a Slovak girl from, actually, no she was from Saint Michael’s. That is right. So, she was Slovak Russian I think. And Next one is Nicole she married the Massapequa Park so, and then Christie married the Italian boy from, they are both Italian boys from Massapequa Park. And Peter married a nice girl from Vestal. So– HD: But all their spouses what is interesting if I understand correctly they all participate in Ukrainian traditions? PH: Yeah, all of four peter’s kids they live about three houses up from us, are all dancers now. They are in that book, so, it is great. AD: That is wonderful. So how did you get interested in working with these– PH: Family history? AD: Family, yeah– PH: One of our friends I grew up with was George Stasko left a church after he got married. He did a family history on his family. They had twelve kids in the family. So, you know that was a nice book, I said boy that was a great idea, you know, I am going to do that with my family and I think for the church it would be super. So that is how it started. And I think it started like about I do not know, 19 2011 is when I first got the idea to do it. And we had about fifty families, and these are the families that we have right here, you know and who I gave the books to and everything else. So, but you know we get a few more. I got one from a gal who used to be a dancer in Saint John’s Paticarium; got married and moved out of the area and they are in South Carolina or Virginia someplace like that. She sent back a book, and just recently her husband had some cancer problems and things so, she wanted to get the book back, you know, and she actually she gave it to me to begin with so, I had to copy that whole book [laughs] and you know send back the original to her. So, you know, but that was… but she said is it okay if I, you know keep the copy and everything, she said yeah that would be fine. So– HD: It also looks like you have been doing research into your own family history. PH: I am sorry? HD: It also looks like you have done a lot of researching into your own family? PH: Actually, what happened, Zenon … was instrumental in this? Each year he gives a speech in New York city, they have a seminar, it is all week long in the evenings and everything, and he talked about you know whatever is interesting at that time but one of the people from Poland came over and gave a talk on Ulychne. So, after the program he went up to her and he said you know our church has a lot of people from Ulychne, and she started crying. She was so happy to hear that, you know, so because that was her job in a Polish, I think she works for the Polish government. She is checking on all those people that came over during that time and everything so, I got her name. I emailed her and did not hear anything. About three months later I get a call and it is this Eric and I do not know I cannot remember the last name, it is a good Polish name called me and he… Phyllis would not let him talk to me. And then he says well I want to talk about Ulychne. So as soon as he heard that name I got on the phone. We talked for about an hour at least you know, and he said he wants to start a website on Ulychne and he heard that I was doing you know of that people from our church came so I sent him all that information and everything you know and he did set up the site. www.ulychne.org and this is where I got these things from. And he went, and found both families like this. And I know my father had two brothers and one sister and I knew the sister was in Paris since then she has passed away which I did not really get a chance to talk to her. That is another story anyway but. So that is those are from Ulychne site right there. So, I did get all the rest of my father’s family and I got a lot of my mother’s family, and you know. HD: And is this site is in English, in Polish. PH: English and Polish. HD: Okay, excellent. PH: Yeah. HD: Excellent. So, do you have more questions? AD: No. PH: There is a couple of other things that I did. The timeline on our church with all the priests, the organization and the timeline from 1926 to the current thing. We I still have to finish the last page or so but that is all way up to our current father Evan. HD: And you keep, you mentioned several times father and Pani. PH: Lawryk. HD: You mentioned as someone a Pani Julia. Got it, okay. PH: Yeah, Pani Julia. That is there book over there I would know if you had a chance to look at it– HD: No, not yet. PH: I can pile that one. Right there. He was as close to the Saint as I will ever see. HD: Really? PH: Really, unbelievable. HD: Was he born here or in Ukraine? PH: Oh, that’s father Zolachetski. She has got the one Father Lark. HD: Was he born here? PH: No. I think he was born in Ukraine. His mother was an Obstetrician and he actually was in a Marine Corps before becoming a priest and I just like the front part here was one part but back here is, and this is Pani Lawryk actually. What is a priest is fantastic; I always put that in there. And that is what he wrote into one of our books and everything. But Pani, you know, after he passed away, she moved to Texas where there actually Minneapolis she moved to. Her daughter lived in Texas who passed away. She had an anemia type a thing. And died very early but she went to Minneapolis because that is where she was from and her brother was still out there and everything. And our whole family went to visit her, I been out to her couple of times visit her you know actually with my wife and then we were going to take the whole family for her birthday. So, we did, we all went there all our kids, you know and we came in and did not talk to her that evening. We got in there like, you know afternoon or evening. So, we were going to meet all the next day with her family. So, we were going to have a birthday party for her. She passed away that night. HD: Oh, wow. PH: And we did not know it until the next morning. So, we still went on with the party too you know. HD: You could still celebrate her life. PH: Yeah, that was tough. AD: You mentioned life story of a woman like you said 43, 50 pages long a story right at the beginning of the interview, you were talking about somebody and then you said– HD: They brought up their story. AD: –Am I exaggerating the page numbers? PH: Oh, this is the… no…. Pani Lawryk interviewed her mom while she was still alive. AD: Okay, yeah. PH: And she was born in 1904 and it is in that book, the biography… That is fantastic; I mean it tells how she lived and how they lived in those days and everything. HD: So, I am looking at this book, just looking at the images from father and Pani they seem very charismatic. PH: What? HD: Very charismatic. PH: Yeah. HD: You know a lot of energy. She is very striking actually. AD: She is like an actress, right? HD: Yeah. PH: She was a great dancer too. Yeah. HD: So, we should stop the… Thank you, I want to thank you so much– PH: Okay no problem. AD: Thank you so much. HD: That was really wonderful. PH: Yeah. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian Americans; Immigrants; Ukrainian diaspora; Vestal (N.Y.) ; Ukrainian folk dancing Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Peter Hatala Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Subject The topic of the resource Hatala, Peter. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Ukrainian; Migrations; Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History; Church; Ukrainian folk dancing; Broome County (N.Y.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hatala, Peter ; DeHaan, Heather ; de Rouen, Aynur Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Dr. Peter Hatala was born in Johnson City, NY and he is a first-generation Ukrainian American. His father was an immigrant from Ulychne, Ukraine. Dr. Hatala is a retired orthodontist. He is married and resides in Vestal. He has six children and two grandchildren. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-06-23 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Peter Hatala.WAV Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-06-23 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 81:41