3 10 75 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23179c8a8baf3cc960bdbca0d862d340.mp3 67bde3bbfe236be6f80e1051611c3ced Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Burns, John B. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-06-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:34 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55877">Interview with Dr. John B. Burns</a> Subject LCSH Burns, John B. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Elmira (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Immunization; Vaccination; Medicaid Pediatrician; Vitanza, Dr. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. John B. Burns Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 16 June 1978 Dan: Doctor, why don't we start out with the—you tell me your date and place of birth and the reason that you came to Binghamton and your life and experiences in the community. Dr. Burns: OK let’s see, I was born on June 9th 1903 in Elmira, New York and ah my Mother died 3 weeks after I was born and the reason I mention that is because she died with an embolism which is quite unusual at this day and age to have that happen. Ah I went to the schools in Elmira and graduated from Elmira Free Academy in 1922 and then I went from there I went to the University of Buffalo in the College of Arts and Science and the Medical College and I graduated from there in 1928 with an M.D. Degree and a Bachelor of Science in Medicine. Ah I interned at the Myer Memorial Hospital which at that time was called Buffalo City Hospital and ah after leaving there, I went to New York to the New York Nursery and Child's Hospital which is the oldest children’s hospital in America and it was Cornell's Pediatric Department and that’s where I did my pediatric training and after I left New York I went to Baltimore to Johns Hopkins and finished my pediatric training there at Hopkins and it was from there that I came to Binghamton in 1931. Ah you wondered why I came to Binghamton—well when I was in high school at Elmira Free Academy I used to come here to Binghamton to play football and basketball against Binghamton Central and ah I always, when every time I was at Binghamton, I always was quite impressed with the city. Ah at that time the big rivalry was between Elmira and Binghamton—ah Endicott, Vestal and Johnson City, of those weren't in it at all—it was between Binghamton Central and Elmira Free Academy. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And as I say that's the reason that I happened to come here or to think about it. When I was finishing at Hopkins, Dr. Park, who was the Professor of Pediatrics there asked me where I was going to practice and I told him I was thinking of Binghamton and he knew a Dr. Chittenden here ah who had taught him when he was a medical student at P. and S. in New York so he said, "Well I'll write to him and see what the prospects are." Of course this was at the bottom of the Depression. Dan: Uh huh Dr. Burns: And he wrote to Dr. Chittenden and I think it was Chittenden who suggested that I come up and see him and talk with him—so I came up one holiday I, I can't remember whether it was the 4th of July or Memorial Day or when it was and ah visited with him and he ah referred me to four different doctors here that I should go around and see and I went around to each one of the four of them but I didn't get any encouragement from any of them—not one. They all said, "Well if you can wait 6 years why you can probably make a go of it or not," but anyway ah I decided to come here to try it out anyway and we had some exciting times at that particular period. I tried to borrow some money from a bank in Elmira and they wouldn't loan me any and ah I finally borrowed $1500 from an uncle of mine and I went to the bank in Elmira to deposit it before transferring it to Binghamton and ah I asked them about what bank I should go to here and they said, "They're all all right, go to any of them," so the man that we rented the apartment from here at 124 Murray Street said the bank, I think it was called the Citizens Trust ah was a bank that would give you a loan easier than anybody else—so I figured that's for me, that's what I want—so I, I went down to the Citizens Trust and made arrangements to have the money transferred from Elmira and then we went to visit Marion's brother over the weekend and came back on Tuesday—was a notice on the bank that it had failed—it had gone under and ah so it's a wonder I didn't have a heart attack right there. Anyway I called Elmira and ah Elmira said that ah that they had gotten wind of it and they had held it up. We, as I mentioned, we lived at 124 Murray Street—rented an apartment there, we paid $55.00 a month and that included a garage and ah all the utilities and everything and ah Mrs. Burns finally got them to cut the rent down to $50 a month because our money was going pretty fast. At that time that I started here in Binghamton, you couldn't put an announcement in the paper that you were opening an office—it was unethical to do it nor could you—that you were moving your office anywhere I mean. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: And now of course you can put it in which they should have allowed it anyway but you couldn't then and also we had another ah bad situation and that was that the ah telephone book had just come out so I couldn't get my name in the telephone book and of course it was ah as I said, the bottom of the Depression ah anyway I opened an office on the 25th of September 1931 and I never had a patient for the first 6 weeks and the interesting thing is that the first patient that I had came from Hancock—didn't come from from Binghamton at all. I never had more than one patient a day until the first of April, 1932 and on that day, I had four patients call me in the morning and from there on it began to break and to build up. Ah there are several interesting things about Binghamton at the time that I came here—as a matter of fact there were very few specialists—there was no one who did pediatrics exclusively—there were 3 or 4 doctors who were general practitioners who did a lot of pediatrics but none of them that just did it exclusively and other than the nose and throat men and ah the surgeons, although a great many of the surgeons ah did general practice too ah there were no specialists—they had a dermatologist here before I came but he died just before I came here. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: We had no urologist and no neurosurgeon, no dermatologist at all and no child had ever been cystoscoped here before I came here and I finally got one of the young surgeons to buy a child cystoscope and that was the first one that was ever cysticoped in this area. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns : Now of course we've got lots of urologists and ah the specialty that you need. Ah we, they had a situation at the City Hospital at that time when if you had a patient with say meningitis or scarlet fever or polio, you send it into the hospital, you lost control of it completely because this one doctor, who was a General Practitioner ah had charge of that contagious hospital.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And that irritated me quite badly because I mean I didn't see any reason why I shouldn’t be able to take care of my own ah patients with contagious disease because I’d had special training in it—so after I had been here about a year, I got ahold of this doctor one morning and I told him that ah I was going to get a lawyer and if necessary, I was going to go to court to see why it was that I couldn't go in and take care of my own patients. I think that upset him a little bit because he said, "Now if you ah just don’t say anything about it, I’ll let you take care of your patients when they go in.” Well of course it was just a question of time when the other doctors saw that I was going in, that they went in too. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And the arrangements that they had was that they had—the door was locked and the nurse had the key to it and she was the only one that could let you in or out so she knew those that had permission to go in, see, and ah but that, that was overcome. Had another interesting situation in Binghamton and that was ah the it was a great center for certified raw milk, which was ah a very excellent milk but it was raw.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And of course I had been ah brought up in the hospitals where I was in using pasteurized milk. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Ah I was even accused of using dirty milk in my patients ah when using pasteurized milk—anyway eventually this dairy who did the, made the certified milk did pasteurize their milk too so that they finally had a certified pasteurized milk and then of course eventually why pasteurization took over completely but ah, ah, ah let’s see here—Oh I one ah factor that was ah helped me quite a lot when I came here was that I did have an opportunity to give some anesthetics for ah nose and throat men and for surgical patients ah I fortunately had had some experience at that at Nursery and Child’s so while I never enjoyed giving anesthesia, I mean it did help to keep me going.  Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: I also used to do quite a little lab work here ah for example if a doctor thought he had a child with an appendix and wanted a blood count done why I would go out and do the blood count for him of if they thought a child has polio, I would go out and do the lumbar puncture and examine the spinal fluid and call him back and give him the report on it.  Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And I remember one very interesting ah ah day—I don't know whether this was would be interesting or not but ah there was either the 4th of July or Memorial Day ah that one of the doctors had a little girl in Lourdes that had a bloodstream infection and of course in those days you didn't have any sulfa or penicillin or any of those things, see and she had to be transfused or rather they tried to transfuse her but they didn't have anyone apparently available at that time that could do typing and crossmatching so I don't know how many hours I spent typing and crossmatching ah donors until finally we got one that they could use on the girl but it didn't do any good, she, she didn't survive anyway. Dan: Umum—would that be the what they call the RH factor? Dr. Burns: No—that one was not RH. This was a septicemia bloodstream infection with a strep infection. No, the RH factor of course when I started we didn't know that RH factor—we used to call it Icterus Gravis in the newborn. We knew that it was a very serious condition and a lot of them were deaf afterwards and a lot of them were mentally defective afterwards and a number of them died. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And it wasn't until the RD factor was discovered that we could really do something and Dr. Vitanza and I did the first exchange transfusion on one of her patients here in the city ah whether it was done, others done in the area or not, I do not know but ah it took us 7 hours to do the first exchange transfusion—now after that we got so that each individual could do it in an hour or hour and a half. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But this child survived anyway even though it took that length of time to do it ah it was interesting in being able to practice before the advent of sulfa and penicillin because practice of medicine is entirely different after the advent of those drugs—it just made it entirely different. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Let’s see what else—in 19, I spent even three years in the service from 1942 to 1945 and ah then when I came back, there was already another pediatrician that had come in. Dan: But you were the first pediatrician in the area. Dr. Burns: I was the first ah pediatrician first one that did it exclusively and first one that was certified by the American Board of Pediatrics. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: Especially ah as you probably know, because you had to have it done when you were young, had to be vaccinated against smallpox before you could go to school—you also had to be protected against diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus and I think one of the most interesting things today is the fact that it's no longer—you do not have to be vaccinated against smallpox—smallpox has been eradicated throughout the world. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And the same thing will probably happen with polio if they can only get the people to cooperate well enough. Now of course you not only have to be inoculated against whooping cough and diphtheria and tetanus but you also have to be immunized against measles and rubella, that's 3 day measles ah mumps ah those three. Yes, measles, mumps and rubella ah they have to be done before they could go to school now. So there’s been a big advance in the immunization ah let’s see what else is there? Dan: Now you spoke it took you almost a year to get ah started. Dr. Burns: That's right. Dan: You went from what, 6 patients or something like that you had at the end of the year. Dr. Burns: Well, I don't, I had after my first patient, I say I never had more than one a day until April Fools Day—the last day of April.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And then I had four and from then on I didn't keep track of them. I—know one thing that when I filed my first income tax return that the Federal Government got after me and wanted to know why it was I hadn't previously filed it—they thought that there was something funny about it. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: When they found out that I had just started in practice I mean why it turned out to be all right. Dan: Uh huh—Now when you retired, how many, how many patients did you have approximately, Doctor, that is in a year? Dr. Burns: Oh gee I haven't any idea how many I had. Dan: Can you figure just a guess?  Dr. Burns: In a year—in the course of a year? Dan: Yeah in the course of a year when you knew—just, just round figures. Just give you an idea how you built up your practice from nothing. Dr. Burns: Well I know I used to work ah in the morning from—I’d give anesthetics from eight o'clock, from seven o'clock until about 8:30 and then start in the office at nine and work in the office all day and then go out and make house calls from about 8 o'clock at night ‘til midnight but I can't remember the ah when I look back now I don't see how I did it. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Gee I—Marion? Marion: Yeah. Dr. Burns: Do you have any idea—what do you mean a day how many I saw in a day or— Dan: No about—you know how many patients you had in about a year’s time, you know. Marion: I don't have any idea. Dr. Burns: Do you have any idea how many patients I had a year before I had to retire. Marion: Oh Lord no—how are you this morning? Dan: Good, Mrs. Burns. Marion: Did you have a nice trip? Dan: Very nice. Marion: No, John, I haven't to be honest. Dan: How many patients did you see on the average a day, Doctor? Marion: Oh— Dan: Would you know that? Marion: Get out one of your books and I'll count them up just for fun. Dan: No, no, just, just a guess. Dr. Burns: Well we'd see them every fifteen minutes from 9 o’clock in the morning and take about a half hour out for lunch and finish up at 6 o'clock at night. Marion: If you were lucky—it usually was later than 6 o'clock at night. Dan: You saw one every fifteen minutes? Dr. Burns: Yes but we worked others in between—emergencies we would have to bring in between too and inoculations I mean that we gave in between, see, so even with that, we figured 15 minutes but we had others coming in also. Dan: Yeah—I know you were awfully busy—your office, your waiting room was packed—we used to try and ask for the first appointment after lunch so we could get in a halfway decent hour, otherwise we had to wait 2 or 3 hours. Marion: (laughter) Sit there and wait—how true. Dr. Burns: Well. Dan: Now the—I think Doctor there's something that you ah left out—we'll see. Ah polio vaccination program, immunization program when they introduced the Salk vaccine—you participated in that program—could you tell me a little about that? Dr. Burns: Well ah it was just the fact it was ah it was a killed vaccine and it was given by injection.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: In contradistinction to the Sabin vaccine which was given by mouth and ah course when the Salk vaccine first came out as I remember correctly, I think we discontinued our regular practice for several days and did nothing but immunize the children against polio. Dan: Yes, I know that Alice, our oldest daughter participated in that program and in other words in administering that in order to see how effective it is was or get a control on it, why you kept either they didn't know whether they were getting the real vaccine or else a placebo. Dr. Burns: Oh we, that must have been done experimentally because we always gave the regular vaccine. Dan: Yeah but this was when it was first introduced. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: To see how effective it was. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: But Sabin—there was a Sabin vaccine but that was a live virus wasn’t it?  Dr. Burns: Sabin is still live and it's a live vaccine and is given by mouth and ah of course they're both two good vaccines. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But the Sabin is probably a little superior and much easier to administer too. Dan: The Sabin is. Dr. Burns: Yes, of course just given by mouth. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But there have been some cases of polio resulting from the Sabin vaccine. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: They're rare but there have been cases discovered and there's been just recently a case of a father who picked up polio from after his child was immunized with Sabin vaccine. Dan: Umum, yeah, so ah you of course didn't always make house calls did you—you had to terminate those as your practice advanced didn't you? Dr. Burns: Well I made house calls right up until after I came back from the service and of course when I came back from the service, the practice of medicine had changed considerably because the doctors weren't able to make house calls and people got in the habit of going to the doctor' s office. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: So I continued to make house calls up until I quit practice on certain instances. I mean sometimes I mean just obligated. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But ah ah before I went into service I mean, I'd make house calls from the NOB down in Endicott up to Chenango Bridge and I've been even to Sayre, Pennsylvania to make a house call. Dan: Gee. Dr. Burns: Ah but I remember one down near Chemung one Sunday, of course we used to tie these up going out for a ride or something on Sunday too—we thought, “kill two birds with one stone.” Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: But Bingharnton has been very good to me ah I'm glad that I came here to practice—I've enjoyed it—I think Binghamton is an excellent city. Dan: That's good. Dr. Burns: And ah I think I would do over again. As I say I'm certified by the American Board of Pediatrics; member of the American Academy of Pediatrics; Central New York Pediatric Club; of course the Broome County Medical Society and the State Society and the AMA. Happen to be a life member of those—also the Academy of Pediatrics ah I don't know much else that ah. Dan: Now when you retired didn't they honor you by over to Lourdes Hospital by the Maternity section over there? Dr. Burns: Yeah, they donated ah ah incubator in my name over there it's one of the latest incubators and not only that but they gave Mrs. Sabini a pearl necklace and then they gave me this (pointing to mantle piece) over here which is worth over $300—that thing, that there. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And in addition to that they had $300 left over and ah they called and wanted to know what to, what to do with that so I suggested that they give that to Lourdes too.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Which they did—to the pediatric department. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: When I came here of course Lourdes Hospital had no pediatric department at all. It really wasn't until after I came back from the service that Lourdes had any pediatric department to amount to anything and the one at the General is when I came here was very unsatisfactory—I mean it wasn't a good setup at all but I have in the past been head of the Pediatrics Department at both the General and at Lourdes and I did work at the General probably 90% of my 25 years over there. Now they both have excellent pediatric departments—very well run, excellent nurses and everything. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: It’s entirely different from what it used to be. Dan: Umum. Now of course I have to transcribe this and some of this spelling here I’d like—this Icterus Gravis, how do you spell that? Dr. Burns: I-C-T-E-R-U-S. Dan: I-C-T— Dr. Burns: —E-R-U-S G-R-A-V-I-S. Dan: Gravis, OK, and in your internship, what ah what school was it in Elmira—you went to some school there in Elmira. Dr. Burns: Well just the Elmira Free Academy. Dan: But there was an intern— Dr. Burns: No—interned in Buffalo. Dan: In Buffalo. Dr. Burns: At Myer Memorial Hospital. Dan: That was it, what was it, Elmira? Dr. Burns: No no Myer—M-Y-E-R. Dan: Myer, OK. Dr. Burns: It was Buffalo City Hospital is what it was then—now it's the Myer Memorial Hospital. Dan: Umum and you retired in what year Doctor? Dr. Burns: 1942.* Dan: ‘42. Dr. Burns: September 13th. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: Not by choice. Dan: Not by choice. Dr. Burns: No. Dan: Unfortunately—OK well is there anything else that you’d like to add? Dr. Burns: Well I was just trying to think whether there’s ah I’ll have to admit one thing and that is that I am sure in the 41 years that I was in practice that I saw a few miracles.  Dan: You saw a few miracles. Dr. Burns: I think, I think most doctors will tell you that they've seen some miracles too. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: Great. Dr. Burns: Of course we got credit for a lot of things and all that ah the Lord took care of. Dan: Oh sure, well we know that we got to work together. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: OK Doctor, well if there isn't anything else why I’ll turn this off. Would you like me to play it back for you? Dr. Burns: I can 't—do you have any other questions that ah. Dan: No I think you've covered it very well. Dr. Burns: At least I told you all the hard luck that we had (laughter) that you wanted, history, that's history. Dan: Oh that, that makes it interesting because it gives you an idea in other words most of our interviews why the people starting out you know were making $3.00 a week and when people realize that you try and raise a family on $3.00 a week why they're squeaking on 20 or 30,000 incomes a year why you wonder how they ever made it. Dr. Burns: Well, I had patients, one I’ll never forget, used to bring me a chicken. Poor old fellow he was a dirt farmer from out near Montrose and he’d bring in the skinniest, scrawniest chicken that there was but his heart was in the right place. Had another one bring in a rabbit—I’d never eaten rabbit before in my life but we were glad to get ‘em. Dan: Oh sure. Dr. Burns: Well another thing that we did which, I, I’m kind of sorry it isn’t that way today and that is we took care of the charity patients for nothing—like I would serve 6 months on and 6 months off at the General Hospital and ah I’ll say one thing that those charity patients got just as good care as your wealthiest patients got. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Wonderful care. See, now with Medicaid and Medicare and all of that, that’s a thing of the past and I think sometimes it's too bad. We never got a penny for taking care of any of the charity patients from the City of Binghamton and the Town of Union used to pay us a dollar a day for the hospital calls that we made and that was the only thing that we ever got. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: I think ah sometimes it's just too bad that they didn't, the way it was of course welfare is so—Marion—can she listen to this when you play it back? Dan: Sure. Dr. Burns: I think it's too bad the way welfare is today, I mean it’s not like it used to be. Dan: No, no. Marion: Well he used to be on call for all the welfare, so-called “welfare patients.” Dr. Burns: That's what I said. Marion: There was no pay given at that time a t all. Dr. Burns: That's just what I told him. Marion: The doctors took care of them free of charge. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Marion: And he used to be on seeing them at a time. Dr. Burns: 6 months. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Marion: Never less than 4 months out of the year. Dan: Yeah, yeah, well things have changed an awful lot with the Medicare and Medicaid—some of them have gotten rich. Marion: They sure have. Dan: Yeah when you read about some of them that are collecting a quarter of a million dollars a year just from Medicare. Marion: It's ridiculous isn't it? Dan: Isn't it? Dr. Burns: I have one other interesting thing that I feel pretty proud of and that is I have the smallest baby that ever lived at Lourdes—she only weighed one pound and 12 oz when she was born and she went down to one pound and 7 oz and she's graduating this June as a Registered Nurse in North Carolina. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: I feel pretty, pretty proud of her. Her mother— Marion: She's a beautiful girl. Dr. Burns: —was convinced, was convinced she was going to live and I was convinced as much that she wasn't going to make the grade but she did. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And the best part is she is right mentally. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And that’s the nice part, she writes to me 2 or 3 times a year and she's going to send me an invitation when she graduates. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Burns: But those are things that make the practice of medicine worthwhile. I can't think of anything. Dan: Well if you can't think of anything else, Doctor, I'll turn this off and play it back for you. Dr. Burns: OK, maybe I better not listen to it. [PAUSE] *Dan: Dr. Burns would like me to make a correction in this interview—he retired in 1972, not 1942 as stated. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. John B. Burns Subject The topic of the resource Burns, John B. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Elmira (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Immunization; Vaccination; Medicaid; Pediatrician; Vitanza, Dr. Description An account of the resource Dr. John B. Burns talks about his birth in Elmira and how he later opened the first certified pediatrician's office in the city of Binghamton, NY. He discusses his professional achievements in exchange transfusion combatting the RH factor, how sulfa drugs , penicillin, vaccination and immunization affected the practice of medicine. He also describes the evolution of his practice and struggles with accepting little or no payment before the advent of Medicare and Medicaid. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 10 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Burns, John B. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-16 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 30:34 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23842505feefe51458d3dce4f3d537d9.mp3 9079349578dde0823149fc7574b3ff10 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d40ccc2a4e5cf0143d1136749f4b477c.mp3 2c7a09830f8fdfb27e02507cd08f78b7 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/76b3edbaf863909cb6f59e259ec9cc69.mp3 6a9bf4b3e39f278bc1ba461dcd923665 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a423f2f60a67f06de5336aa1819db4c8.mp3 02418e6b9cfccb47f506f28ab133cf82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 ; Link, Marion Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-09-18 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:35 Minutes ; 33:15 Minutes ; 16:07 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55970">Interview with Edwin and Marion Link</a> Subject LCSH Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 -- Interviews; Link, Marion -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Cortland (N.Y.); Aeronautics; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974; Earhart, Amelia, 1897-1937; Link Aviation; Cortland Airport; Billy Brock; Clarence Chamberlain Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Edwin and Marion Link Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 18 September 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Edwin Link at 10 Avon Rd., Binghamton, NY. The date is the eighteenth of September, 1978. Mr. Link, we'd like to—a have you tell us some of your recollections of early aviation in Broome County, if you would. Mr. Link: All right. I first started to fly down at the old Bennett's Field off DeForest St., which isn't a field anymore. And—a I soloed in 1926 and been flying ever since. There were previous flyers here in Binghamton that might been interesting to have on record, for instance Basil Rowe, Pan-American's first pilot, flew here of of Bennett Field years ago. Another very well-known pilot that's been in this vicinity and, and recently died in Waverly was Earl Southee. They were both ahead of me and—a then there was Dick Bennett, of course, as he was pretty well-known after those two. Wanda: And he was the one the field was named for, right? Mr. Link: Ahh—Dick Bennett—a probably gave me most of my instruction though I'd had some previous instruction in California by—a Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother, back in—in 1919 and 1920, but I didn't complete it. I was just going to high school then. I didn't have enough money to continue, and besides my father forbade me to fly at that time. So… Wanda: But that was your first experience in flying—was in California? Mr. Link: Yes. Wanda: Do you remember what sort of plane you learned in? Mr. Link: Well my first plane that I flew in was the old Curtis Jenny. It was a World War I training plane and—a the second plane I was training in—I had to get it at various places and this was at Binghamton—was a Curtis Oriole. It was really a, a newly-designed Jenny. It was like it but really a new one to take place. It was designed new in 1919, that was our Curtis Oriole plane. I took some instruction in that in California also in 1919. Now what more can I say? Wanda: Well it takes a lot of imagination to—a try to think what it was like when you started flying. What was it like when you actually got into a cockpit in a plane? What did it look like? Mr. Link: Well it didn't look like much. There was only a tachometer in the cockpit. That was the only instrument we had. It tells the revolutions of the engine.  Mrs. Link: No compass? Mr. Link: Ahh—we didn't have a compass in some of 'em. Compass was a new-fangled—a idea. But—a that—an air speed and a compass were usually added. But the original planes first, only had a, they had the engine instruments—tachometer, oil gauge, oil pressure and—a oil temperature and water temperature because they were a water-cooled airplane then. And that was a out all and they were all at that time stick-controlled, not with the little wheel like most of the planes use today. Wanda: And your two foot controls...? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: ...your two foot pedals? Mr. Link: Two foot pedals. That's all they used to have—or rudder bar, actually they weren't pedals then. They had just a stick across and you could put your feet on each end of that. We called it a rudder bar—so that was all there was in an airplane in those earliest days. And then—a later when some of the other instruments were invented they were added, but it came along 19—a 30 before the other instruments, or instrument flying had even a remote start, that is, flying without vision. Mrs. Link: Well in 1930 you had to have, by that time, you had to have an altimeter and a compass. Mr. Link: I had a turn and bank indicator and that was just invented about then, the turn and bank indicator. Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer… Mr. Link: What? Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer it had those instruments in it. Mr. Link: It had a... the first trainers had the essential instruments in of the day, which was the turn and bank indicator, the compass, the air speed and a rate of climb indicator. That was all of the instruments in the first… That was considered a well-equipped instrument flying airplane. And the first trainers had those instruments in it to teach them how to use them because there was quite a lot said in the day that you...didn't need instruments to fly. Most of those pilots died shortly. They said they could fly by the feel of the airplane better. As I say, most of them didn' live very long if they did that. As a matter of fact, before I invented the trainer a man out in Wright Field—this somewhat gave me some of the ideas to invent the trainer—a Major Ocker took a seat and put it on a stool that would revolve, and then he'd blindfold the people and twist them around in this seat a few times, then ask them which way they were turning. And they invariably said the wrong way. And that was one of the things that gave me the idea that you could make a whole airplane to train a pilot to do everything. He was merely demonstrating just what I repeated: that you couldn't tell where you were going by sight or feel. You had to have an instrument that told you where you were turning and whether you were flying straight or level and so forth, that we had no natural ability like a bird, to do so. And even birds haven't, it's been proved later, 'cause they sometimes fly right into a building and things by accident or at night when they scatter. So they don't have much either. That was the way the early flying was. And then, along in the thirties came in these instruments and—a people were beginning to learn how to use them, including myself, and then I thought that—a you could build a machine that would… a trainer that would teach you, rather than going out in the air which was expensive, and slow, and you had to have the weather to do it in—that you could learn most of it on the ground, which some…which most people wouldn't buy at that time. They just thought that was silly, but—a time has proved differently. Wanda: It certainly has. Mrs. Link: It might be interesting, Ed, if you'd tell about how flying was taught back when you learned to fly, and how much longer it took, and—a how much more difficult it was. Mr. Link: Well it was taught, and of course it's still taught that way to a limited extent—but it's a very expensive way—is to get in a… Now they get into a small airplane with a pilot and—a try to fly the airplane…and fly it with the pilot until he—a takes it away from you for reasons of mistakes and so forth. And you can… They still don't know how to fly. And primary flying is learned that way. But there's very little flying, instrument flying, learned in the air nowadays, because you can't simulate the…some of the conditions of instrument flight which is done in bad weather and you've either gotta fly instruments or else. So that's why a trainer proved to be valuable—because you could fly anytime you wanted and the weather didn't have to be bad to get instrument training. It could be simulated in a trainer. That’s—a the main thing, in that I, of course, after we built the first trainer—which was built almost simultaneous to the time I was, had learned, after I'd learned to fly—'29, wasn't it? Or ’28-'29. Mrs. Link: '29. Mr. Link: And that was built at the old Endicott airport where I was flying—a commercially. Most of the money that I made flying, I used to help develop the trainer. Mrs. Link: You built the first one down in the Link Piano Company on Water St. Mr. Link: That was not an instrument-flying trainer. Mrs. Link: Oh, you're talking about the instrument trainer. Mr. Link: The first instrument, the first instrument-flying trainer we built in Endicott. The first primary-flight trainers were built in the old Link Piano Company factory on Water St., which has now been torn down. Wanda: That's gone. Mr. Link: It's interesting to note that the, that I've got one thing in common with IBM. Bundy Time Recorder Company started in the same factory that I started in—in the same building, which later turned out to be IBM, as you know. Wanda: Well you both accomplished your purpose very well, didn't you? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: You both accomplished your purpose… Mr. Link: Yeah. We were both, we both started in the same building anyway, which is interesting. Mrs. Link: You know, it's the fiftieth anniversary next year of the Link instrument trainer and—a they will be celebrating next year. Wanda: Good. Good. That's good to know. You had a sign, a plane that carried a sign for night flying, didn't you? Mr. Link: Yes, I had several planes that—the main thing in the early thirties was to try to make a living to eat, because that was the time of the big crash of money and everything. So—a there wasn't any jobs of any other type and I was—the only thing I knew, other than piano and organ building which I'd learned in my father's factory, which was down there on Water St., was—a flying an airplane. So I—a used an airplane to earn a living with because that was one thing you could still—a sell, was rides in an airplane, what we called barnstorming in those days—go around to small towns in various places and fly over the town at about fifty feet and get everybody out. And then they'd come out to the field and then you'd sell 'em rides in the airplane. Most of 'em were…just cow pastures, ordinary cow pastures and—a… Wanda: So you'd get your crowd that way and then… Mr. Link: ...started that way, yes. Then the sign that Marion was speaking of—I thought there, there was coming along things that—a needed advertising. Advertising, there were still companies trying to sell products like Enna Jettick shoes, Dunn-McCarthy, and I sold them a… Mrs. Link: Spaulding Bread and Utica Beer—Utica Club Beer— Mr. Link: ...and so I constructed a sign that had—a what you'd call universal letters under the wings on an airplane. And I used a roll like a piano roll to—we'd call it a programmer nowadays, but we just called it a, a roll—that would form the different letters under the wings of the airplane and say, "Drink Utica Club Beer," or, "Enna Jettick Shoes are the most comfortable," and various things like that, short messages. Then I would fly it over town at night and earn better rates of pay than I could get riding a student around all the time. I put the students in the trainers and I took to the air, to teach them. Mrs. Link: Well in those days they didn't have lighted airports and—a they had to put out these little pots along the runways that they put on areas of the road, you know, when there's a hole? Mr. Link: Just open-flame pots, to mark it. Mrs. Link: And that was all they had to take off and land. Mr. Link: Well they were called cow pastures, practically, and you couldn't call Bennett Field more than a cow pasture. You couldn't call the old Endicott Airport—a, which is now built up completely with houses—previous to the field that they have there now—more than a, a cow pasture either. 'Course Broome County Airport wasn't built. Tri-Cities Airport wasn't built and Binghamton Airport—which is still in existence—is out in Chenango Bridge and that was actually a cow pasture. It belonged to a farmer by the name of Haskell. Mrs. Link: Wanda took some flying lessons there, she said. Mr. Link: Did you? Wanda: Yes. Mr. Link: Oh, from the Johnson brothers? Wanda: The Johnson boys, yes. Mr. Link: From the Johnson brothers, did you? Wanda: Yes. Mrs. Link: She said she lives just in back of Pete and Mildred Dougherty, out there. Mr. Link: Oh. Oh. Well, we lived there, too, for a little while on the river bank, but our house floated away one time. Wanda: Is that a fact? In the '35 flood, or the ’36? Mrs. Link: Yes. Let's see...well we lived there in '31. That's the first year we were married and Ed was flying out of there. And—a, but the flood came after this, we weren't living there when the flood came. Wanda: Oh, fortunate for you. Mrs. Link: But it was a little cottage there on the Haskell farm that was on the river bank—lovely spot. And Ed had his—a, used to take up parachute jumpers there on that field and they'd put on the night shows. Wanda: Well they had some marvelous air shows around here in that age, didn't, weren't there? Big—a… Mrs. Link: They did a lot of things. Mr. Link: Well, air shows were always an idea to make a little money flying, when you could get a crowd out, but Marion made more money selling hot dogs than I did flying airplanes…to the crowd. Mrs. Link: That was when we were up in Cortland. Ed was renting the Cortland airport, after they closed the Endicott one. Wanda: Well there were a number of small airfields around here, weren't there? Wasn't there one at Conklin when... people first started really getting— Mr. Link: Oh, they were, they were, you couldn't call them an airport. They were really just cow pastures that they chased the cows off from. Mrs. Link: Little strips, landing strips. Mr. Link: But—a they were used as airports. We called them an airport. Wanda: I suppose any place that you could sell gas from you could use. Mr. Link: Yeah. Yeah, it was just a question of having it big enough to take off from. Those old airplanes didn't need very much room because there weren't airports. Aircraft were made to take off in short, small spaces. And of course they wouldn't go very fast either. If you had an airplane that went…80 or 90 mile an hour, that was quite a fast airplane. Wanda: Well it must have been interesting taking cross-country flights in those times, too—when you first started out. Mr. Link: Well there wasn't very much cross-country done for passenger work. There was a—start of the first airline in Binghamton was called the Martz Airline and they were, they started, it was by the Martz Bus people that started it. And they were flying from Bufflo to New York in an eight passenger airplane. And—a they were really the first airline there in New York. Mrs. Link: Did they have to have intermediate stops? Did they stop here? Mr. Link: Oh yeah, they stopped at Elmira, Corning, and… Mrs. Link: I don't remember that, even. Mr. Link: Oh—it was before your day, I guess. Mrs. Link: Oh—they really had an airline going that far back? Mr. Link: Yeah...it was ticked as an airline. Mrs. Link: That would have been in the twenties. Wanda: Do you remember what kind of planes they were? Mr. Link: Well, they were Bellanca, the same type that—a Clarence Chamberlain and Ruth Elder tried to fly across the ocean in. They were—when they didn't have…full of gasoline, you could carry eight passengers for a couple hundred miles before you had to get gas again. Wanda: No overnight flights, I don't suppose, either. Mr. Link: Oh no. No night flying at all 'cause there were no lighted fields. And then the government, to help these—there were a number of 'em started all over the United States—to help them find their way at night, to start at night, put in a system of beacon lights in between airports. So that's all you had to guide you from one airport or another, was a beacon light every twenty miles. If you couldn't see 'em you couldn't get there. So it was all...visual flying…with these beacon lights. So that's early aviation in Broome County. Wanda: What—a, what about this—a Endicott Aero Club? Mr. Link: Well it was the… Wanda: Was that the first such thing around here? Mr. Link: It was the first aero club formed in Broome County, which I was a member of and—a it was just a group of people that were interested in flying and probably a good share of the Aero Club was made up of my students that were...and it was just like any other club. It was because they were interested in flying. They'd meet once a month or something like that—what we would call “hangar fly.” They would talk things over, their flying and so forth. Wanda: And that field was across from where the Enjoie Country Club was? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: Was that across from where Enjoie Country Club is now? Somewhere down in there? Mr. Link: Well the original Endicott Airport was right across from the golf club there. It's built up now with houses. It was along the railroad tracks there. That was the...there were only two fields. The first two fields was that field and the Bennett Airport field—a down by DeForest St. Then a man by the name of Rowe started the, what he called the Binghamton Airport, and that was at Chenango Bridge. And later—while I flew out of all of them extensively, 'cause we were right around here for one reason or the other—later I based at the Binghamton Airport and then after that I based at the Endicott Airport, the original one, not the present one, and continued the work of developing the trainer there. I'd use my students, sorta, as guinea pigs on the trainer. Wanda: Was that part of your flying—a lesson? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: Was the use of the trainer part of your course in flying? Mr. Link: Yes. Yes. Actually one of the reasons I was so interested in teaching flying was because I felt that I, it was a good proving ground more to learn how to build a trainer, than teach, because I could teach them on the ground and then I took 'em up in the air and found out what they didn't learn and then maybe improve the trainer to take its place, make it better. Wanda: Iron out the problems that way. Mr. Link. Uh huh. Mrs. Link: Well Ed had the whole school set-up and the whole course, including solo, for $85. Wanda: Amazing! Mrs. Link: And it was $35 for the ground school and the trainer. Mr. Link: And $50… Mrs. Link: And then when they had suffcient training time and he felt they were qualified to go in the air, then the other fifty dollars applied to the air time until they soloed. And it didn't make any difference how many hours it took them. $85 covered the whole thing, through solo. Mr. Link: I'd guarantee to teach them to fly for $85 then. If they didn't, I'd refund their money. That's the deal I put on. Mrs. Link: And he had one class a week at night in, in ground school, and they had to pass that before they qualified to go in the air. Mr. Link: And I used the trainer in the class to, to find out. The reason I didn't have very many refunds is, I discovered when they cou—that they weren't able to fly in the trainer, so I'd kick them out of the school, I'd flunk 'em out. So if I hadn't… Mrs. Link: Well, they were pretty, most of them qualified, though. It took a different… Mr. Link: Well most any normal person can qualify to fly. It isn't… Mrs. Link: —it might have taken them a longer time. Mr. Link: —walking or riding a bicycle or driving an automobile. Wanda: I think that's true. Mr. Link: Sometimes we'd have—a people that are a little mixed up and they can't drive a car either. So, if they drove a car pretty well they could learn to fly an airplane. Wanda: That's a wise way to do it. Umm... What else do we have down here? Mr. Link: Is your recording machine working all right? Wanda: Seems to be going. Mr. Link: Let's don't do a lot of talking if it isn't. Wanda: No. It's doing fine. I just wondered if there's anything you could think of that I didn't have down here on the, on the list. Mr. Link: Well, let's see what you have here. Wanda: Mrs. Link, you were part of this, all through the career—his flying career? Mrs. Link: Well actually I met Edwin, I came to Binghamton in 1929. That was the year that the trainer was first completed. And—a, and I met him soon after that. We were married in 1931, and as he said, it was during the Depression years, so we, I worked with him all through those years. And I took care of the office work, and the typing and the, all the background things. [Telephone rings.] Excuse me. Mr. Link: She learned to fly also. Wanda: And she learned to fly? Mr. Link: Yes. At that time, she learned to fly up there. Wanda: She mentioned that she does the, the navigating, or did the navigating quite often for you. Mr. Link: Yes. 'Course we didn't have regular air maps as they have—then. We just had an ordinary map, where now they have air maps, you know. Wanda: You mean you, when you first started, you used like a road map? Mr. Link: That's all. Yeah. [He is called to the telephone.] Trainer I mentioned is the Jenny. That's the JN-4. That was the World War I training plane. And then I flew a Sikorsky wing Jenny, which Igor Sikorsky—the inventor of the helicopter—decided that to make a training plane he could put a more modern wing on the, on the airplane. And so I flew that some. And then I flew OX-4 Waco, which was a biplane of early days. And then I flew the OX-10 Waco, which was a newer one that was brought out in about '35, considered a very wonderful airplane. It was…quite a laugh when you think of it now, but it was a biplane. And then I bought the Number'Cessna, the first Cessna that Cessna ever built that was eligible, that he could sell. He'd built a...couple of haywire models before, but this was the first one that was ever built that he, that would really...was engineered through. Number 1. Mrs. Link: I said I thought it was one of the very first cabin-type monoplanes. Mr. Link: Cantilever? Mrs. Link: Ca—cabin-type. Mr. Link: It wasn't the first, no. Mrs. Link: One of the first then. Mr. Link: One of the early, first. Mrs. Link: And a monoplane. Mr. Link: But it was Number One Cessna that—a flew, other than, you might say he built some rough, crude models of airplanes before that, but this was the first one that was really—of his airplanes—that was a complete airplane. And—a of course the Cessna company has been a very successful company and they've built thousands and thousands of airplanes since then. I went out in Wichita with Dick Bennett, who was flying here at Bennett Field, and we flew it back to Binghamton. Wanda: Oh...that must have been an adventure. Mr. Link: That was quite a long trip in those days. And—a then I had the OX—Travel—the OX is the old war-type motor that they used at that time mostly—Travelaire, and then later I got a Sieman's Halske, which was a German motor. We didn't build a suitable motor in this country at that time. Wanda: What was the name of that? Mr. Link: Sieman's Halske, it's the German electric… Mrs. Link: H-a-l-s-k-e, S-i-e-m-a-n. Mr. Link: Well there were no small engines built in this country at that time for us, suitable for us. Wanda: Is that a fact? Mr. Link: So we had, my Number'Cessna had an Anzani, which was a French engine, in it. And the OX5, it was an American-built engine, but it was built during the war, and it was not a modern engine as of...that day. Mrs. Link: You said, when you were talking about the OX10 and you said 1935, you meant 1925, didn't you? Didn't you say there were two OXes? Mr. Link: Well the Waco-9, OX5 engine, Waco-9 was built in about '25. And then afterwards Waco brought out a later model, which they called the OX10. Mrs. Link: Mmm, but that was in the '20's, not in the '30's, wasn't it? Mr. Link: In the late '20's, that was, yes. Wanda: Well, how about this old Ford Tri-motor that you had? Mr. Link: Then I had various other—I can show you a picture of it back here. Mrs. Link: You had an Eaglet and you had a Curtis Pusher. Mr. Link: Had—a various other planes, all kinds of planes in between. Wanda: That Curtis Pusher, was it open, open cockpit? Mr. Link: That was what they called the Curtis Jr. Mrs. Link: Yes. Mr. Link: Wacos, Travelaires— Mrs. Link: —Stinsons. Mr. Link: Swallows, Stinsons. Those were all early airplanes that I owned at one time and flew or—owned several because I was running a flying service then, and a school and I had—a more than one airplane. Wanda: Now this Tin Goose that you owned, it, what was that used for? Passengers, mail? Mr. Link: Passengers, yes and then I put a sky sign underneath it. Wanda: Oh, that was one of 'em. Mr. Link: One of 'em that I put the sign under. I'm trying to [leafing through a book on the Johnson Flying Service] Johnson book—82, I guess it is. I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service, that's how I happen to be looking up one, and then somebody got a picture of it in… Wanda: And it's still being flown? Mr. Link: So far as I know it's still being flown. The account of the Johnson Flying Service is here in this book. Wanda: Must have quite a few hours on it. Well, this was one of the first… Mr. Link: Here it is right here. Wanda: ...passenger planes as such, wasn't it? Oh, my. [looking at the photo in the book] Mrs. Link: Yes, for its size. The Tri-motor was a very unusual airplane. Mr. Link: Afterwards I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service. I carried thousands of passengers in that plane. Wanda: And where did you… Mr. Link: It carried eighteen people, if you wanted it—sixteen to eighteen. We could crib a little bit and carry eighteen. Wanda: Well, where did you fly that, out of Binghamton? Mr. Link: Out of Binghamton, yes. And then I flew it, I barnstormed it around the country, too, taking it… They were a very high performance airplane. We call them STOL airplanes now, an airplane of that type, but—short take-off and landing airplane. They were sort of redesigned then. Mrs. Link: And people got a real thrill out of flying in one of those big tri-motors. Mr. Link: That was the biggest airplane of its day, the—a Tri-motor Ford. That was considered a huge airplane. It was an all metal airplane, too, one of the first. Wanda: Oh, it was? Mr. Link: Yes, one of the first. Wanda: Did you have a regular route that you took passengers on? Mr. Link: No, I didn't carry passengers then. Later I, because… Mrs. Link: You had a pilot, too, that did a lot of the flying. Mr. Link: I had a pilot working for me then. I had a whole flying service, too. I had four or five airplanes, including the Tri-motor Ford. Then I had mechanics working for me rebuilding aircraft and keeping my airplane up, or our airplanes up. I probably had as many as ten or twelve people, total, out in, in—a…that was at Tri-Cities Airport. Wanda: Oh yes. Mr. Link: The building's still there that—a I used. Mrs. Link: That was after Cortland, that was after Cortland, wasn't it? Wanda: You operated out of Cortland for quite a while, didn't you, too? Mr. Link: Yeah, well they had, I was in at the Tri-Cities first. It wasn't Tri-Cities called then. It was called Endicott Airport. In a little wooden building, and that's the place where the houses are all built up now. And then because Cortland built a better airport and they had a, a hangar that you could even put a Tri-Ci, or a Tri-motor Ford in, I went there because I needed the hangar and I didn't have the money to build one. I built— Mrs. Link: Oh, Edwin, remember the... that was when George F. decided he didn't want an airport there any longer, in Endicott. Mr. Link: Well, we… Mrs. Link: That's a good story for these Binghamton records. Mr. Link: Well, what—we were flying there and George F. didn't believe in flying. Wanda: Is that a fact! Mr. Link: And George F. was—word was law around here at the time. But—a Charlie Johnson and—a— Mrs. Link: George W. Mr. Link: —George W. Johnson both liked to fly and they would—a usually sneak down in the, to the airport in the morning and fly with me. They were always good for an airplane ride and I was, I needed the money and they'd take a flight with me. And then George F. heard about this and he says, "You're not, my sons aren't going to fly and you're not going to fly out of Endicott—our field. I'm going to close it down." And I went to see Mr. Johnson to, I said, "Well, one of the difficulties is I've got about ten or twelve men working out there and if you close the field down it puts me out of business and it puts about ten or twelve people out of business." And I said, "There is a possibility I could move to Cortland but,” I said, “that's going to cost me—a some money, five or six hundred dollars that I don't have and can't afford to bear it.” He says, "How much is it gonna cost you?" And I said, "Five hundred dollars." And he sat down and wrote me a check and gave me five hundred dollars to move. Wanda: Oh, that's rare! Mrs. Link: So then in the years— Mr. Link: So I went to Cortland. Mrs. Link: In the intervening years while he was in Cortland, then the Tri-Cities Airport got its start, because the other flying that was occurring in this area had to have a place to go, too. And—a so they finally started the other airport. Wanda: Well, but he didn't actually close the field, did he? Mrs. Link: Yes. Wanda: He really did. Mr. Link: Yes he did—it's never been flown off since. Later they built the Tri-Cities, the village built the Tri-Cities Airport, but the field originally was his...property. Wanda: Oh, I see. Mr. Link: It was right alongside of the road across from the golf club. Oh yes, he closed the field and it's never opened, it's always been closed. But then later, they built the field—a the Tri-Cities Airport which is there now, but the original field— Wanda: Well, it's probably just as well, this would have been… Mr. Link: —but the original field, usually Chambers of Commerce pay people to come to town, but this, this time I was paid to get out of town. And I took most of my employees with me. Mrs. Link: Well in Cortland, in Cortland they got a real start for the—a trainer, with the Army and all. And then when he came back here, the airport had been built down there at Tri-Cities, so he had a place to come to. And—a then he started manufacturing the trainer here because the war years were about to start, you know, and there was a lot of interest in training, training airplanes at that time. But not with the United States so much. It started in Japan and in Russia and in other outside countries. And it wasn't until after we got back here and settled on Gaines St. that they— Mr. Link: Well the first six… Mrs. Link: —started to have an interest in—a… Wanda: That's where the first factory was for the trainer? Mrs. Link: Mmm, Gaines St. Wanda: Gaines St. You had a number of moves, too, didn't you? Mrs. Link: Mmhmm. Wanda: As the business expanded? Mr. Link: Yes. And of course, we kept growing and we outgrew our buildings almost before we could move in. Mrs. Link: There while we were on Gaines St., that flood of—was that 1936? I guess it was. Wanda: The big one? Yes. Mrs. Link: Yeah, that wiped us out there again. Mr. Link: And fire, with it. Mrs. Link: And what? Mr. Link: And a fire occurred in it. That whole block burned up there. Mrs. Link: So then we moved over to—a, what's the name of that—a? Mr. Link: Montgomery St. Mrs. Link: Montgomery St. Over there on, in back of the highway. Mr. Link: And that was a big building for us then, but we outgrew that in a short time. Then we went up to Hillcrest, which was, had been the old Larrabee-Deyo Truck place, originally built by Nestle's during the war. Then Larrabee-Deyo took over the building, and then later we took it over and we still own it. We still build trainers there. But we have another factory, of course, in—a, up at—a Mrs. Link: Conklin area. Mr. Link: And another one in England, too. Wanda: Mrs. Link said—a, while you were out, that you might have something to say about some of the old pilots that came around here, a—landed around in these airports and that you knew. Mr. Link: Well, of course I being the principal aviator around this area at the time, any new people that came to—a town, I would meet and all, and some of them were well-known people of the day. Clarence Chamberlain was one of the first to fly the Atlantic; Billy Brock who was the first one to fly around the world in a land plane; and—a I also met Lindbergh at that time, when he landed down here in Choconut. And there were numerous other of those. Wanda: He was forced down, wasn't he? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: He was forced down? Mr. Link: Yeah—bad weather. He landed in a field down here, like we always did in those days. And he couldn't get his airplane started the next morning to get out, he and Major Lanphier. So I flew down with Dick Bennett to help him get it started, which we did. They got started eventually and left. There's a picture of, of that was in the paper with Lindbergh and myself. Wanda: Yes. Mr. Link: There’s also one over in the gallery of—a— Mrs. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin. Mr. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin, downstairs there they’ve got one someplace. Mrs. Link: I also mentioned the women pilots, Ruth Elder and Amelia Earhart. Mr. Link: Ruth Law was one of, was one of the first pilots here, and she came here before I was flying. And it must have been... oh, I can’t say, around 19—a ‘16, ‘18, and landed out here on what was Kilmer’s place there, then, the horse-training track. And she was one of the first pilots to—a ever fly out of Binghamton. [Tape'ends.] [Tape 2] Mr. Link: They put up a prize for the first airplane to fly from New York to Chicago, or Chicago to New York, I forget which way, and she flew an old Curtis Pusher there, where you sat out in front. There wasn’t any cockpit around it, but she and Lincoln Beachey were the first two pilots—Lincoln Beachey was the first one I know about. A—Ruth Law would be the second and then after that came Basil Rowe and those that I’ve ment—already mentioned, Earl Southee, you know. There was also Catherine Stinson. She landed someplace out in Chenango, not Chenango Bridge, but Hillcrest. And she cracked up three times tryin’ to, or while she was here—was here about two months rebuilding the airplane and then she’d crack it up again. Wanda: Typical woman driver, right? Mr. Link: Well it was the airplane’s fault, I think. She was pretty good to fly it. Mrs. Link: What about Amelia Earhart? You came up from Washington, she came up with you, didn’t she? Mr. Link: Yes. Amelia Earhart was just, recently had learned to fly and she was, wanted to learn to fly instruments. And I had one of the early instrument-equipped planes. I was down in Washington and some way or other I got connected, I don’t know, and she flew from… Mrs. Link: I was thinking that it was—a, that it was Captain Weems. That she was down there getting some navigation instruction. Mr. Link: No, that was another woman. I don’t remember just how I got connected there, but I was flying from Washington to New York City and she wanted to go up, and I said, “Well, come ahead and get in and I'll show you what l know about instrument pilots and instrument planes, what you need.” And so she did. And then she went out later, to Paul Mantz out on the west coast who—in the meantime these trainers were taking hold and people were buying trainers—and took instrument flying time to fly the instruments, from Paul Mantz in a Link trainer, to start with. Wanda: Oh. So she originally had her instrument training from the… Mr. Link: Well, I didn't, I couldn't exactly say I taught her anything about instrument flying, but I did show her how it was done. Wanda: Yeah. What—a, what was she like? Mr. Link: She was a very nice person. I was well-impressed with her. She was one of the most retiring of the women aviators. Others that came along afterwards, they were somewhat—a— Mrs. Link: Careful. Mr. Link: —noisier and so forth. Like there was this woman that… Mrs. Link: Never mind. Mr. Link: OK. Let's get off the women pilots. But I didn't have too much respect for most women pilots, at the time. Wanda: Well, they were… Mr. Link: But I did Amelia Earhart. She was a very nice woman, very modest, very quiet and very able. Wanda: I always got the impression that she really loved flying. Mr. Link: And she really loved flying, yeah. Wanda: What was it fascinated you about flying? Do you remember your first incident with an airplane? Do you remember the first time you saw one, or… Mr. Link: Well the first time I flew was out in California. I was out there—a and I flew and then started taking lessons with Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother. Then I couldn't continue that because I didn't have money to and my family stopped me, when they heard about it, but I—a always enjoyed flying. I felt there was a future in it. Wanda: And you were right. Mr. Link: At that time there were no airlines, no—hardly anything for flying schools except something like Charlie [sic] Chaplin. He established it out there where the Ambassador Hotel is now, in California. Wanda: Is that right? Mr. Link: And—a the movie actors and actresses had more money than anybody else and they were a little more interested in learning to fly, so he started an aviation school out there. And that was the first flying lessons I took, was in 1920, but it was 1926 before I really got into flying and seriously went through it and soloed an airplane. Wanda: Well, can you think of anything else you'd like to put on here for… Mr. Link: I don't think of anything. Wanda: I think I've taken up quite a bit of your time. Mr. Link: And that was a long time ago. Mrs. Link: You've got a lot of—record there. Wanda: Yes, and I certainly want to thank you for all of your time and our recollections, both of you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Edwin and Marion Link Subject The topic of the resource Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 -- Interviews; Link, Marion -- Interview; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Cortland (N.Y.); Aeronautics; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974; Earhart, Amelia, 1897-1937; Link Aviation; Cortland Airport; Billy Brock; Clarence Chamberlain Description An account of the resource Edwin Link talks about pilots in Binghamton before and during the time when he learned to fly, flight instruction under Sidney Chaplin and Dick Bennet. He details the beginnings of instrument flying, his invention and development of the instrument-flight trainer, and the invention and use of the sky sign.. He talks about night flying, early years of aviation, the beginning of airlines in the 1920s, and the many airplanes he has flown over his lifetime. He also discusses his reasoning for initially  basing himself at the Cortland Airport and recounts stories of male and female pilots who came to work in the area, including Billy Brock, Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 41A ; Recording 41B ; Recording 41C ; Recording 41D Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 ; Link, Marion ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-09-18 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:35 Minutes ; 33:15 Minutes ; 16:07 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1aeb294c91bee71a0ca670da812d0913.mp3 afae3c031339f9f4a3ca708a4be26075 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hladik, Elizabeth Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-02-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:59 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55944">Interview with Elizabeth Hladik</a> Subject LCSH Hladik, Elizabeth -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cigar industry Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Elizabeth Hladik Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 27 February 1978 Anna: I am Anna Caganek: the interviewer. I am talking to Betty Hladik. 24 Isabel Street, Binghamton, New York. The date is February 27, 1978. Elizabeth: Take your boots off. Anna: Tell me, tell me about your experiences. Elizabeth: Yes. Anna: Uh, Betty…in the community. Elizabeth: Okay, is it here? Is it started? I don’t know. I’m Elizabeth Hladik. Eh, born in 1910 of immigrant parents, Frank and Mary Konecny. They came here from Gbely, Czechoslovakia, in 1904 to Ellis Island in America, bought a home on Berlin Street in the First Ward and lived, uh…let’s see, lived there all their lives. They bought it for $2400 in 1912. And I lived there most of my life…ah, ha-married, had two children and two grandchildren. My father at 15 [years] was an apprentice to a shoe cobbler, and lived in Vienna two years. So he naturally went to Endicott-Johnson area here to find work after trying out in the coal mines in Lansford, Pennsylvania, he decided he wouldn't spend his life underground even if the pay was higher. He was content with making shoes and raising a family of six children. Yeah. He inspired me to do domestic work for good families, which he claimed would be more rewarding than to take a homemaking course in high school. I never went to school higher than the 8th grade, and I was quite content, but at times frustrated. The pay wasn't ideal at the time. At least I got around and got an insight of how people of worth live. Why did you have that around? Oh, I see. So at least I got around. At 15 and a half, I started as a domestic with Mrs. Murray, 206 Main Street in Binghamton. She was the widow of an Admiral, and she entertained elegantly, having a Swedish cook, and I learned a lot early in life. Also worked for the Chamberlains of Lathrop Avenue—he was an editor of Binghamton Press—and the Gails—butter and egg people, and meat. Then a Mr. Clement Bowers, dad who was an inventor, lived on Main Street—I worked for them. Mrs. Daniel Dickinson of South Mountain—her husband was an ambassador of United States to Turkey. Then for a while I worked for a Mrs Frank Harris, he was in the extract business and also the 5-cent doughnut shop on Court Street. And the Edwin Link family, the inventor. And also for a time did restaurant work: the G & H Diner, helping with many chores: the dishes, counter work, and also the diet kitchen in the old Broome County Infirmary on Front Street, and Vail-Ballou book bindery. Then I worked in E.J.’s in the very early years in the Jigger Factory on Willow Street making tennis shoes. And also in Dunn McCarthy Factory as [chuckles] fancy stitcher. Then for a time I went to New York, worked on 5th Avenue and Park Avenue. I didn’t like the cockroaches. Even in wealthy homes, the bugs appeared now and then in old buildings. I had $75.00 a month pay and room and board. That was in 1939, about. I always liked Binghamton—I think it’s nice to travel around, but here is where I like to hang my coat. Especially [laughing] I’ll always remember our great neighbors. Minnie and John Murphy of 3 Berlin Street, who helped mold my childhood. Actually, Mrs. Murphy, who had no children, was a great help to my mother. She taught my mother the American way of life and came over to show her how to make pumpkin pie, custard puddings, and beef vegetable style, and corned beef and cabbage, and doughnuts. She had been a cook in the Waterfleet New York Hotel in her days, and she was quite a cook. And of course my mother exchanged apple strudel and kolachky for some of her cooking. She used to bring over, to us kids when we came home at lunchtime, some hot meals. Not many people do that today to help out. She was a great neighbor. My mother worked in the cigar factory, couldn't be home to get our lunches. Mrs. Murphy brought over many times, how I remember. Baked potatoes, especially, and creamed cod fish—I loved that. Anna: What did your mother do in the cigar factory? Elizabeth: She was a bunch maker, and she rolled cigars—that’s what she did, and sometimes she made more than my father did in the shoe factory [laughs]. And Mrs. Murphy made real molasses cookies, and mince pie with beef in it, and she inspired my parents to go to night school, and both my parents learned to read. Mrs. Murphy was not a habitual churchgoer, but she was a respected individual and will always live in the hearts of all who knew her, because to live in hearts we leave behind is not to die, and God will always bless America as long as there are people like the Murphys and the Konecnys that can help each other and set a good example for generations to come. And in the face of the high cost of living today, a good word and a helping hand will create the necessary boost we need to encourage us to go on, no matter what life holds. Anna: Did you ever, what did you do for amusement? Elizabeth: Oh, well. When I was very young I used to go out to pick berries up in Ely Park, that was our favorite pastime—when we were kids, that is. And, ah, after I grew up to be a teenager, I did a little dancing in the Pavilion, and met—and saw some of the great band leaders and all. Anna: What were some of the—could you remember some of the band leaders? Elizabeth: Well, of course Benny Goodman, and all those. I didn’t I go too much but I saw some of the greats: Johnny, Johnny Greene, and his band, and—oh dear, who is it? Now that I can’t think. Anna: Did you ever go to the Woodrow Wilson alumni— Elizabeth: Yes, I went to the Woodrow Wilson School here in Binghamton, up to the 8th grade, and we had wonderful teachers there as I remember. Miss, ah—Miss, ah…she taught us English—oh dear, she’s dead now. Mrs., Miss Stone was the principal, of course. Anna: Miss Berzel? Elizabeth: No, Miss Merzel was in Jarvis Street School. I went part-time to Jarvis Street School too. And Woodrow was very nice but we had to come home from school every lunchtime. It took us an hour, I mean, to get back home and eat and do the dishes up and then go back to school. We had an hour to walk all that distance and then go back again. Snow, raining, or shine, no buses, no cafeterias, but we made out [laughs] because as I say, Mrs. Murphy always gave us a lift there—she had no children. Her husband was a blacksmith here on Hawley Street where the old police station used to be—yes. He was one of the last of the, ah, last of the blacksmiths in town, and he died in 1930. So he was a great man. He also bought an old Ford, old Tin Lizzie [laughs]. He never had electricity in his house, he didn't believe in it—they used kerosene oil. Although we had electricity in our house next door to him. And, ah, our childhood was much different than today, yes it was, and we did more chores around the house than kids think of today. We had all the chores to do because our parents worked—we had to scrub clothes on a washboard, and I remember standing on a little stool just so I could reach the washboard and do my stuff, because my older sister did housework outside. And I had to carry on and do the cooking at 12—I was quite a cook—so I learned, because our parents were both working. That’s how it is today too, both parents are working, but the children, I guess, do not do much cooking. aside from (laughs) hamburgers they can get around the corner, and potato chips and Coca-Cola. I was raised up on different type of food and I'm glad I have that to remember, and I try to keep up as much as I can. Maybe that’s what keeps people young in their outlook on life, and what they've had in the past makes up for a good life. You have to eat good, sensible food in order to live a long life and be healthy—and do your share of work. It’s all fun in the long run. But it can’t be all play in life, you can’t expect to be loafing around and playing games or cards—I wasn't much for card games, it’s a waste of time, or bingo [laughs]. I suppose that’s all amusement, but I have a simple way of life, and I like to walk an awful lot and see nature. That’s my amusement–and my grandchildren now. Anna: Do you like to do anything by hand? Elizabeth: Oh, I used to do a little crocheting and patchwork and embroidery, and some painting pictures on the side. That was my hobby. Oh, but I have not been so interested in it lately, it’s too much hard work. I don’t like the idea of being gummed up with paint and get my house all plastered up, I just don’t care for it anymore. But it’s a great hobby; they told me I did well. I have a few pictures I did, but I don’t expect to sell them for a great deal, so I [laughs] keep them. And don’t have them hanging on the walls, either. But someday, I’ll get back to it and enjoy painting once again. Because—maybe when I get older [laughs]—I’m too young—I’m too young to get old. Anna: You’re retired now? Elizabeth: Now I’m retired, I’m 67, yes. And I expect I’ll like to live to be 85, at least. And if I keep going the way I have and no setbacks, no real ill health, why, then I’ll probably make it and try to help other people that are in worse condition than I am, or—here in the building where I live, there’s some that need help and don’t have too much money to pay for a nurse. Why, you could give a little of your time, but don’t be taken advantage of to the full length. Just a little here and a little there, it’s good to help people along the way, and that’ll make your day. So I am glad to have had this opportunity to talk and tell a little about my life. But at any rate—well, I think I missed out on saying all of the places I worked at. I worked in E.J. Jigger factory and in Dunn McCarthy, I said that before, and the Links—oh—Broome County Infirmary, did I mention that? And Vail Ballou in the book bindery, and—I think I mentioned that, yes. But anyhow, it pays—my father gave me a good example in life, always not to be money mad but to do a job where your heart is in it and to like your work, no matter how much you got paid. Of course, my trouble was I never got much money, but I think I was happy in life, and that’s the main thing. Thank you. Anna: Oh, thank you, Betty. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elizabeth Hladik Subject The topic of the resource Hladik, Elizabeth -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cigar industry Description An account of the resource Elizabeth Hladik talks about her parents' emigration from Czechoslovakia and being the only one of six siblings to attend school, up until the 8th grade, after which point she was employed as a domestic. She worked at Vale Ballou, Dunn McCarthy, Endicott Johnson, and in New York City. She speaks of a Mrs. Murphy who was very helpful to her mother in adapting to the American lifestyle. She also discusses how her parents attended night school to learn the language, her mother's employment at the Cigar Factory, and her father's employment at the Endicott Johnson Corporation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. 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Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Planck, Elodia de Hoyos Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-08-14 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:06 Minutes ; 4:11 Minutes ; 14:48 Minutes ; 36:19 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56002">Interview with Elodia de Hoyos Planck</a> Subject LCSH Planck, Elodia de Hoyos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees - -Interviews; Cigar industry; Nearly New Shop; China Painting; Patronesses Ladies of Charity; Mexican culture Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Elodia de Hoyos Planck Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 14 August 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Elodia de Hoyos Planck of Glenwood Road, Binghamton, NY, on August 14 ,1978. Elodia, will you please tell me about life and experiences in the community? Elodia: I came to the United States in 1931 with my parents, two brothers and sister and we came to San Antonio, Texas. We lived there three years and then a friend of my father's that lived in Endicott asked him to come here because he thought, that during the Depression, and he thought it would be better for us to be here and we, he sent a taxi, a limousine taxi after us. We started to work, my sister worked as a nurse's aide, I started to work in the cigar factory and my brother worked in the restaurant. My dad worked wherever he could, and of course, he worked for EJ for a while. I met my husband in 1933 and we got married in 1936, and since then I have been living here in Binghamton, for, since 1931. What would you like to, what else would you like to ask me, Nettie? Nettie: At this point, I would like to ask you, you say you had worked in the cigar factory, what did you do there? Elodia: I used to be spotter—they used to call them spotters. I used to spot the bad cigars and, then, throw them out and see that they were perfect. Nettie: How did that procedure go about? Elodia: They had boxes with trays on them, and each tray consisted of so many cigars, 24 cigars, and then I would see that every one was perfect and then they, of course, would send to different parts of the world, you know, United States and even out of the United States. Nettie: I mean, what would you do if you saw something wasn't just right? Elodia: I throw it away—we usually, they would sell them for as not perfect, imperfect. Nettie: All you would have to do is to spot them if they are good or bad, right? You didn't actually have to fix the cigar? Elodia: No, no. Nettie: Just have to spot them. Elodia: Just to spot them. Nettie: Where was that located? Elodia: That was on Emma Street where later on—ah—ah—Ansco took over because the cigar factory—ah—ah went out of business. Nettie: What was the name of the cigar factory? Do you remember? I asked several people and they just cannot remember the name. Elodia: I could find out for you from a friend, her father was a foreman there—I can't remember the name of it. I go back and look at my records. Nettie: Did you work there very long? Elodia: No, I think I worked there three years and then, of course, when they closed why then I went to work for EJ. Nettie: I think most people did that, didn't they?  Elodia: Yes, that was a Godsend—EJ was a very good place to work for, at those times. I worked at different jobs—stitching and different jobs. Then let me see—I was going to tell you—I went to school in Endicott—night school for a year and after that I taught myself to read and write. My mother and dad lived in Binghamton, then, of course, when I got married and lived in Binghamton, since then. Nettie: How many children did you have? Elodia: I have three children. One is in Ann Arbor and he is an engineer, and then, I have one is in Mexico City who work for—sh—someone some company who is connected with United States they sell hospital things—he's like a market researcher and my youngest son, Ernest, is an engineer—he worked for Ansco. He was laid off and now works for Universal Instrument. He has two children, also and let's see I became involved after—I became involved after my children left home. I became involved with the Ladies Patronesses—Ladies of Charity is an organization that helps the community—especially the First Ward—and we do various things like—ah—we have a store, clothing store, that we help the poor with also we give good to the needy, and we do eye exam—not examinations—but it's the—ah—we go and test the children in schools for eye defects, among other things, that's we do we help—we are associated with Catholic Charities. I was president in 1972 and then I became involved with china painting and I do that as a hobby, also, sometimes I sell it in order to get more china. I enjoy that very much. Nettie: Elodia, how did you get involved in this china painting? Elodia: Well—friend of mine asked me if I would like that. There was a teacher in Hillcrest, Mrs. Gregory of Gregory Avenue and she is 87 years old. She is one of the best in the country. I took probably between four and five years with her and she is unable to paint now but she's one of the best. Nettie: What is the procedure of your china painting? How do you go about this china painting? Elodia: OK—china painting—I get the green china—it is not the green china—I get the china from the different factories—stores, rather out of town. First, I put my pattern on with a special pencil, then proceed with painting. Some patterns you have to fire them three or four times or more and china is getting very high price now—of course, gold is very expensive, so we are trying not to paint with gold—the way they used to do years ago. It is very intricate work and of course, we like to say that we are porcelain artists not china painters—we are porcelain artists because we do it—on porcelain. I go to seminars, you know, in different places like Syracuse or wherever they are near once a year to see other teachers paint and it is a very lost art which is coming back quite rapidly, which is quite interesting. Nettie: Elodia, where was this started this art from England—the history about this? Elodia: Well, as far as I remember it was started in England in 1500s—I think it was (if you could give me a minute I can look it up). Nettie: No, we do not need to know exactly. Elodia: All right—what they used to do—they used to be very secretive about it—they didn't want anyone to know about it and they started to do china painting mostly with decal and then they would gold it or paint shadows on it and they they would gold it—and then there was one vase that Louis XV had—even when he died it was worth like $2200 and that has been—since then, of course, there had been lot of painters that have come mostly from England and France, Germany, but we are rapidly becoming one of the first in this business—Americans, we are really going strong on that. Nettie: Now, when you make your paintings, do you do this free hand or—? Elodia: I can—most of the times I do—lot of times—sometimes if I want to copy some very old pattern—I can—put some, you know, from that pattern I want. I rather have my own patterns because then it is so much easier than if I am trying to copy it—copying is much harder than doing it yourself. Nettie: When you do it yourself, it is more you, right, or it is original. Elodia: Yes, yes—authentic. I am very interested in doing lamps. I'm trying to match old lamps, painting the globes. I have had very good success with making four of them and I find that some of the colors are very hard to copy—there isn't the color as they used to be—because some of those red colors require lot of gold in them so they are very hard to fire—if you fire them to a higher degree than your cone specifies you can have a disaster—they'll melt with even 50° over it—so it is very complicated when it comes to glass. Nettie: When you are painting—are the paints made out of vegetables? Years ago they did— Elodia: No, the paints are—isn't that funny I read it when I was studying—it's gotten away from me but they are in powder form—then we have a special oil that we mix it with then we paint with oil and turpentine along. Ah—let me see what I can tell you anything else about it—painting— Nettie: Is this lady, Mrs. Gregory, originally from England? Elodia: No, Mrs. Gregory was born here, right on Gregory Ave. They had a farm there—her and husband—and let me see—she started when she was 14 years old and she's 87 years old now—so, she painted up to about two years ago when her heart—she had a heart attack but she still paints. Every once in a while—she still paints and she took lessons from—ah—ah—Mrs.—again I have to look in my notes—anyhow this woman that she took lessons from went to NY and took lessons from Mrs. Provost, her name was, she took lessons from a woman in NY—she stayed a week and it cost her $500—at that time—which was about 65 years ago, something like that. When he came to Binghamton, Mrs. Gregory took two year lessons and she is—she is just an artist—a very gifted person and could draw very good without getting any education. The same teacher had her paint—you know—whole sets of dishes, painted a whole lot of sets—now she put patterns on two of my set of dishes. One is in—the boy in Mexico City has it—he had it—now it’s for 7 er 8 place setting and of course, platters sugar, creamer, etc. He had it appraised and they offered him $8000 in Mexico. He was so proud, he wanted to insure it and but he wanted to know just what it was worth and he insured it—they told they would gladly give him $8000. So I'm very proud of that. I have three sets myself—you know, of course my other son has a set that I did for him. Nettie: Sounds interesting. Elodia: It is—and of course it is very relaxing like some people relax with crochet and others with you know, knitting, you know and I relax with china painting. Nettie: Elodia, since you came from Mexico it is always intriguing to me to ask something about the customs of Mexico. Elodia: Well, let's see we have three—uh—three kinds of people—elite, middle class and poor. Even today, they still have the same customs and I know some foreigners, some people, think we are cruel because we had maids—but we always take care of the maids—my mother never had less than three maids—of course, at the time when we were there—why they were very cheap to have—like $20 a month plus room and board—but my mother always saw that they were taught to read and write and she always gave them a day off—she clothed them—she made clothes for her whenever she could or bought clothes for her—at those days most of them were done by hand—the sewing and that’s one of the customs—they are much harder to get now because they are going to factories—but the factories are taking advantage of them because knowing they are ignorant—you know—they take advantage of them and really they are much better off being a maid in people's houses. Now, my son has a maid—she made the mistake by having a child out of wedlock but my son built a little room for her with a shower and, you know, shower and bedroom—he takes care of the child—same time she is—maid in his home. So, you know, some of the poor are alleviated that way—now you know, people go to Mexico and they say, "Oh, there is so much poverty,'' but it isn’t true because in a sense this government cannot instruct them or get through to them that they will help them if they need help. They'd rather beg than accept government help. Now in the past 20 years Mexico has progressed in education very well—the universities in Mexico are free—like universities—like the college here like SUNY and Broome—and they are free but naturally they have to still pay room and board but free tuition. Now—there still—especially in the small cities they're still ten years behind United States. Of course, we have imitated you in a lot ways because of course, your ways are better. I find Americans are very willing to help us—to help the Mexican people. One of the things—I admire about the Americans they are not selfish—they are very unselfish and well we have learned a lot from you and I think—I—we have a lot better relationships than we had years ago. Customs—let's see we still have the elite—still marry with the high class of people—sometimes for convenience, not all time—I think they're changing too—where the girls couldn't go out without a chaperone, now they could go—alone—now and they're no more lenient towards that—but we still have a lot the customs we had before—like we still wear black if someone dies for two or three months according to relative—we are very close families—we always have uncles, aunts, cousins, second cousins, third cousins—we are very close together—we keep track of each other—usually when we have gatherings, we—it’s usually just the family—because it’s so big—because we always say, “oh well, it’s the third cousin—we have got to have him.” Now let me see—Northern Mexico is very arid—very hot—the middle part which is Mexico City and up to the coast of Acapulco is very lush—then you have Yucatán and Degalt, also very arid—is very hot and lot of poverty—a lot of poverty in that region—they're trying to—you know—make life better for them—well, it takes years and years especially, the Indians, they still live in little huts, you cannot make them change because they think the hut since it is made with palm hedged roofs—why they think it is much cooler and they go through the same thing that their grandfather, their great grandfather taught them to do and they till the land with such primitive tools. You just can't change them—they just don't want to change—some do come to the city, they're miserable when they come to the city—people will say, "Gee, look at those poor things”—they're not poor—they like to be themselves—this is the way they were taught by their parents—they just don't know any other way. If they have enough to eat and a roof over their heads they don't care for anything else. Nettie: Elodia, tell me something about the social life. Elodia: Of the government or of the people? Nettie: The social life of the people. Elodia: Well we have, of course, the fiestas like you have—like the 4th of July—this comes in which is 16th of September, there. We have fireworks, we have parades, we have almost the same things that you have. Our most important time is Christmas time, of course, Easter time too. They are two special events for us. They are, Christmastime 16th to 24th, we have a custom that we go from—different families get together and we go to Mass at 6 o'clock—we have special ceremonies and then after that we have a late supper—a 12 o'clock supper—like a 12 o’clock supper—that goes on until the 24th and on the 24th we have, of course, have a big feast like we have here. Now we have trees but before we had altars because it was hard to come by. It is very religious time. Even now they have about 80% are Catholics—there is quite a few Protestants now but predominant are Catholics. We have—in the part that I come from they have a little celebration 5th of May—it is the beginning of the crops—and all the Indians or the poor people there's a group of people, just like the Knight of Columbus, they get together, dress like the Indians used to, they have a Mass—in fact my mother donated like a little grotto to the out of town so they could have their feast there—and they still dance all those dances—they are colorful—this is only for the 5th of May and they bring their bread and some of the legumes, some of their crops to be blessed by the priests. All day long they have different dances—they have like a carnival atmosphere—you know, this is very important—they have mariachis which—a mariachi is a fellow—is group of young men or men who play different tunes of Mexico—usually they are primitive dances, you know, primitive dances—primitive music. They still are going on with all that. Nettie: For social life— Elodia: We still have dances at home or in halls, always with music. They still have serenades. They still serenade their girlfriend and if they are engaged why they bring three or four musicians and they sing under the window. Then of course, is is the custom the parents ask the young man and the musicians in for chocolate or something like that. Nettie: It Is romantic! (Laughing). Elodia: It's romantic—and it's always two or three o'clock in the morning because by then they had two or three drinks and are, of course, feeling gay and romantic and sing to them. Of course, we have the bullfights. Some people think it’s very cruel—but those bulls are trained just for that—they trained them—they bring them from Spain, sometimes—they train them to be very ferocious—a man has to know what he is doing in order to defend himself from the bull—of course, it is customary to kill the bull. The meat is always sent to the prisons which if there is another— (interruption). So anyhow the custom—oh—the meat goes to the jails—which is another thing another disgrace in Mexico—the jails are bad—but in each nation something has to be bad, that is one of the things that are bad in Mexico which has been in the papers lately, you know, how bad they are but I tell you they don't have the vandalism, murders that they have here—because when they say that they—shoot them if they find them in an act of vandalism or act—like abducting somebody—or stealing or killing somebody—they kill them on the spot, they don't have a trial for them—in this way America is very lenient. I'm very sorry, it is a very bad mistake—so, we have very bad conditions in the jails but believe me they think twice before they go to jail. Before, they, you know, commit something like when they started here to rebel, all those student started to rebel in Mexico City—also they wanted to do the same thing they did here. The President said, “OK, if you do that we'll start with cannons we will not fool around—we'll start fighting right away and they did—and they killed a few of the protestors and there never was another demonstration. It isn't that Mexico has a dictatorship—yes, they had quite a few presidents, bad presidents—that is the one of the reasons why we came here—the government was corrupt—my father got into politics—that's another story but they have had a very bad governmentship—how do you say—government and we have had ups and downs, past history revolutions and all that—what is better? To be strict with the people and show we have authority or let people get away with things? Nettie: That's right. Elodia: I may be wrong but now the politicians here are not any more corrupt than in other countries—in fact, I think that they are not as corrupted as in other countries. They are doing the best they can—I find that people demand too much from the politicians—they're human beings like we are—sure, they get big salaries but on the other hand look at the risk they—taking—they are our leaders, they should be able to make more money—as they are the leaders—they take a lot responsibility—oh well, so they find this politician that politician took a little money from this or that—well, maybe they don't get enough money to represent the people like the people want to represent them—like, for instance, it takes money to be dressed the way supposed to be dressed, to live in luxurious homes—they have to live in luxurious home—they are the representatives of United States. I do think they should be—the people that have beautiful homes so that other countries will say—well look—all right, I think they should be treated equally in some instances but they also are to be treated with respect because we are the people who elected them so, they should have a certain kind of aura towards them, you know, something like, not that they are better than we are but they do have a better position because that's the way we want them to be—they have to be. Is there anything else? Nettie: Well, Elodia, I'm always interested in foods and recipes of Mexico. Elodia: In the first place, the Indians taught us to use the maize—the corn that is the staple in Mexico—they would, the kernel of the corn, they would grind, now, years ago, they used to grind by hand in a stone made for that purpose with, sort like a rolling pin but made of stone. Now, of course they have machines that grind the corn and make into dough—that dough is made into a tortilla, like a pancake, and is cooked like a pancake and from the tortilla we make, we stuff them we call it a taco because, “let's call it a bite to eat"—the tortilla can be cut into 5 or 6 or 8 pieces—could be used as like a piece of bread to eat with a meal. Now the tortilla is very essential in Mexico. The scientists have found out that Mexicans have very good teeth because the corn when is eaten does not leave a residue that is left by bread—so, that is why they think the Mexicans have good teeth. Now, beside the tortilla, like I said, we have chili which is very hot, we use them in sauces. We don't—the restaurants cook very spicy with very hot peppers but the people don't have that hot stuff—they make a sauce, of course, it is up to each individual to use it—now we have the tacos—tacos are fried, beans are fried, the meat is made into a like a stew—you put in tortilla and you then roll it—you call it a taco—also, we use that for an enchilada. The enchiladas have another procedure—we put them through with a sauce made of chili powder which is not hot—chili is made with dry peppers for that purpose and then sometime we use it as they are but it's ground to the powder—the tortillas pass through the sauce and then you put the fried onions with cheese, roll them and bake in the oven 10 minutes—you call them enchiladas. The tamales are a very long—intricate procedure—it takes a long time, it’s not complicated but takes a long time. The tamale is made into ah—right—the meat is cooked with garlic and spices and ground and then the dough is made with meat juice—broth—soup. You make it into a stiff dough and then you make it into a corn husk and then put your meat in the middle, roll it, and then you cook it—probably for one half hour because the meat has been cooked already. The masa, which is the dough, is cooked in about 20 minutes—which is called the tamale because it is cooked in the cornhusk—and it is a tradition which comes from years and years. We eat very little pastry. They do now, in Mexico City, you find the most famous bakeries in the world—they use a lot of pastries, but only at night. The Mexicans have a very good breakfast which consists of sausage, eggs, sometimes pork chops and even steak. Then the meal, main meal, between 2 and 3, they have a big meal first comes the soup, then comes rice—we fry our rice—then comes the meat, it’s either made into roasted charcoal or in the oven. After the meat comes the vegetable or the salad and we very seldom have pies or cakes—we have fruit piece for dessert, it’s plentiful there. This is 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock now at night when people come to visit you it is usually between 4 and 6 and the custom is to serve chocolate and little bit hojarasca—which is a cookie made very rich—that's what we offer them, you know, between 4-6—now the supper which we call dinner here is very light usually is a sweet roll and hot chocolate or milk or coffee—it is always 8-9 o'clock—a very light meal, of course, they have their meal at noon. That's it. The spices we use are entirely different than the Italian or Americans use. We use cilantro—which is cardamom seeds—no—I can't think of the name in English—we have cumin seeds—we use in rice or meats—we use a lot of almonds to cook with our meats which is cooked into a paste, thickened like meatballs or like in stew. The chili con carne which is so popular is not done as it is done here—probably it is Americanized. The way I was brought up I was cutting tiny little pieces of pork or beef, we fry that then of course, we cook the pinto beans which is cooked ahead of time and then when the meat is done we put the pinto beans along with chili powder, garlic & onions and then we simmer for a long time and that is our chili con carne, which is a little different than they make here. It's good here too, but I mean, but it has been changed some, but that was the original chili con carne. We use pork in our tamales—when we make our tamales—or we make like you would call a stew with green peppers and sauce of green peppers entirely—for pies and cakes there are few recipes, we use flan, quite a bit, which is like a custard only is a little bit sweeter, it’s almost like a custard, we have it at night, sometimes, when we do that. We also make, here we go again, buñuelos—it's a very thin like a pancake—put one over our knees—put on knees—proceed to pull—until it becomes very, very thin—and we fry that out—sprinkle with sugar and cinnamon. This is the custom that we usually make them at Christmas because the weather is hot—now Christmas it is cooler so we make them that time of year so we call them buñuelos. What else could I tell you about Christmas? We take a roast beef—you know—you say, “what am I going to do with a roast beef?”—so you make it into a loaf, hash, or meat patties. Our meat patties or croquettes as you call it, we use them different, we take the leftover meat, grind it—then put into—eggs with peaks—beaten egg whites with a tiny bit of flour—then we fry and using leftovers we make a sauce with tomato, garlic and onion—put sauce on top of croquettes—(meat patties leftovers with)—we always have—most of our meals are with rice, meat and beans—even on the hottest day we have soup. The soup consists of a bone with meat, throw in whole carrots, a half cabbage, cut into quarters, pear, apple, tomato and onion. We don't use garlic on soup—soup of the day—sometime—we have corn soup and cream soups—but this is our popular one. Nettie: Elodia, this sounds interesting—sounds like a cookbook. Is there anything else you want to add to this? Elodia: No, unless you want to go into custom dress— Nettie: That would be interesting to know. Elodia: I'm, all right, making too many ahs—I've got to make my thoughts together. We, every state in Mexico has different custom—costume. The custom of the whole country, whole republic, is embroidered blouse which is white, very pretty embroidery—skirt is made of green—because the flag is green, white and red and we have an eagle in the middle of our flag—usually custom of the whole country—colors are exactly like the flag on we painted by hand or embroidered by beads and very colorful—as I say, each state has their own costume—towards the Yucatán Peninsula—they have entirely different like a muumuu—not too white—like a muumuu embroidered on top, then they have a skirt embroidered with white and then they have another with lace and that is the custom of Indians—they usually, even now, they dress all the time. Now—toward the Tampico—Veracruz—which is another port is near the Gulf—they have all white made of very tiny plants—and is in layers—one after another. We have folklorico—a group of dancers—dance of every state—it's different—when it comes to New York, if anyone hears about it should see it—it's beautiful, colorful being handed down from generation to generation—it's authentic—from the primitive stage to now. The poor people of Indian people still have a custom to put their shawl around their shoulder and then cross it and they carry babies on their back. Now I can see the Americans with their carriages on their back—carriers, almost like that—child sleeps and is  comfortable because next to mommy or when carried in her stomach when they're tiny—that's only the poor people. Naturally, rich people have maids to carry babies like that in a carriage. Now we are clothes conscious—now we might not have a beautiful furniture or the house elegantly furnished—but we are careful how we dress, for instance, like in the afternoon when we go to the plaza which is a circle, its middle made of concrete. The middle of plaza there is a band concert—always a band—since we have hot days, at night we go and listen—government pays for that. Gee, I have been getting away from everything, Nettie—I have told you so much and yet I didn't accomplish as much as I wanted to—my mind goes from one thing to another thing. Nettie: You told me quite a few things. I understand you belong to a charity—sounds quite interesting. Elodia: Patroness Ladies of Charity that is a group of ladies of charity that—uh—is an association of charity of ladies of the United States. It was formed in 1960 and became one of the 43 countries in the world to have its own association. We—the Patronesses are devoted to do good for the community—right here in Binghamton. We have a store on the corner of Jeanette and Clinton St. Anybody in need of clothing can come with a letter or note from either their priest, minister or social worker. Even though we are Catholics we serve everyone that comes or anyone that come and says, "Look, I am in need of clothing," or, "I'm in need of groceries—because either my husband is sick or is not working,” and we try to help all we can. We have—we also sell clothes and other articles—with the money that we acquire from sale we put back in to buy shoes for the needy children as they start school. Sometimes, we help people in need that have no money—we help them for one week or so until they can go to their own church or social services or go to Catholic Charities to be helped. We have done this quite often—we have a Sister Genevieve who works with us—she is tremendous help—she goes to houses when she finds out they are in need of something—sometimes we pay the electric bill so the electricity is not turned off—or the gas bill or other necessities or we buy their drugs because, maybe they haven't gone through Medicare and like that for them.  Nettie: I say you have an interesting project that you are in. What was the name of the store? Elodia: Patroness Lady of Charity, Nearly New Shop, Clinton Street, 797-2033. If you have no way to come down, sometimes we can delegate someone to come after you and you can pick out clothes you need. They, also, take you home—it has to be—people who can't get there—we try not to emphasize this because so many people have a cousin, nephew or a niece who can bring them down. Now we have certain hours—we close Saturday in the summer. Other days, Tuesday and Thursday 10-3 o'clock. Now if by some reason or other you have to have clothing, as I say, you can call the shop and we'll send someone after you and we'll get you there, somehow. Nettie: That's wonderful work you're doing for the people. Well, Elodia, I must say that was a wonderful interview. Thank you very much. Elodia: You're very welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elodia de Hoyos Planck Subject The topic of the resource Planck, Elodia de Hoyos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees - -Interviews; Cigar industry; Nearly New Shop; China Painting; Patronesses Ladies of Charity; Mexican culture Description An account of the resource Elodia de Hoyos Planck talks about her birth in Mexico, arriving in the U.S. with her family and eventually arriving in Binghamton, NY. She discusses working in the cigar factory as a spotter, in the Endicott-Johnson Corporation as a stitcher, getting married and having three sons who became engineers. She speaks about her hobby of china painting, her volunteer work in the community, membership in the Patronesses Ladies of Charity and as an volunteer in this organization's store, the Nearly New Shop. She also explains customs, dress and food of the Mexican culture. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 50A ; Recording 50B ; Recording 50C ; Recording 50D Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Planck, Elodia de Hoyos ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-08-14 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:06 Minutes ; 4:11 Minutes ; 14:48 Minutes ; 36:19 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8aa1b23d7d3bdd596d3f5c460a77d70a.mp3 2a0260da93d78c3b9951300fc4d08294 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Parsons, Elsie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-08-21 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:51 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55992">Interview with Elsie Parsons</a> Subject LCSH Parsons, Elsie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; LeRayville (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Teachers -- Interviews; Funeral homes; Women -- Societies and clubs; Titus-Parsons Funeral Home Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Elsie (Atwood) Parsons Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 21 August 1978 Susan: Mrs. Parsons, could we begin this interview by having you tell us where you were born and something about your early childhood, your parents and what they did? Elsie: I was born in Le Raysville, Pennsylvania, and came to Binghamton at the age of three and at that time of course a IBM was International Time Recording where my father worked and my mother was a wife and homemaker. I had one sister. I went to the public schools of Binghamton. I graduated from Binghamton Central High School and a my last year in high school I worked at Cornell Dibbles Funeral Home just answering telephone and helping as sort of a receptionist then I went to a Potsdam State Normal School. When I came back I was hired by Dr. Daniel J. Kelly whom we all loved in the 5 & 10 to be exact well I suppose that everything had been taken care of at the board meeting naturally but that was the first announcement before the letter came to tell me that I had been hired as a kindergarten teacher in the public schools. I taught in Benjamin Franklin School and in later years I came over to teach in Horace Mann because the principal of Horace Mann School was the one I went to when I entered kindergarten and he asked Dr. Kelly if I might come and teach for him so my friends all said, “Oh no, they won't transfer you.” But somehow I found out they did so, I came over ‘cause a people thought I wouldn't want to leave a new building to come to an old building because that was before the new one was put up, Horace Mann, but a I enjoyed my life very much. I taught until—I taught half days after my first child came and then I taught a I had stopped teaching entirely when the boy came so that a I could stay home all the time and just be a housewife and help with the business here. Susan: Do you recall how much you made when you first started teaching? Elsie: I think it was $1,100 and I thought that was an awful lot of money and my parents did, really, today it doesn't sound like very much but a I think that's about what I got, that or $1200, somewhere around that neighborhood when I first started in but after three years of course I didn't marry until after the three years were up although I did meet Mr. Parsons before that time but I wanted to be sure that I had my permanent certificate for teaching so if I wanted to go back and teach and I did teach until the children came so I had quite a long career as a public school teacher in Binghamton but a my husband went in business in 1928.  Susan: ‘28. What did he do before he got into this business? Elsie: A he worked for E-J before that.  Susan: Oh did he? Elsie: Uh huh. Susan: That's interesting. Elsie: And in 1928 he went in business with a Mr. Titus and we had the Titus Parsons Funeral Home on the southside and then we bought—we moved over here to the westside of Main St. so that we were across the street at 86 Main for four or five years. Then we bought this house.  Susan: It's a beautiful home. Elsie: Yes, J. Stewart Well owned it but he wouldn't sell. We wanted to buy it sooner but he lived here all alone with just one servant which wasn't enough to properly take care of a home and he just wasn't interested in selling. We had sent people to inquire of him but he said, “What would he do with the money if he did sell?” So, we couldn't buy the house next door which was the carriage house, the white house with the red blinds at that particular time, but my husband bought it later for a friend of ours who is single and wanted a place in this area so she could be close to us. Her father was a minister and she doesn't have any close relatives so we bought the house as soon as it was make use of to a nephew. Susan: Can you recall some—some little things that you did when you were growing up that you did that was many years ago? Elsie: Yes, I agree with you. I a, well skating was what I enjoyed the most, I think. Of course I did all the other things too. But I think skating and playing tennis were my favorites when we were in high school and ice skating course I did rollerskate. Susan: What were some of the biggest changes that you saw in the community as you were growing up? Elsie: Well you mean in the buildings or the business or what? I know when we moved to this funeral home and went in business here I think a great many people besides myself we did it in all due respect we used to call Monsignor "Father" McLean and I can see even today the gorgeous arrangement of flowers that he sent when we had our opening and he was always very nice to us. And we had a girl in every room when we had the opening to tell people about the room. We'd give them a little history of the house because of course it is a—a very beautiful building and that added, I think, a great deal to our opening and the girls who did it enjoyed it and a they were always very very nice to us. We enjoyed a lovely friendship between the sons and Father McLean of course that dates back a good many years which you can't remember I'm sure but a and— I don't know, I think that I enjoyed even grade school as well as high school a lot more than people do today. It seems to me we had good times and we had more parties and things like that when we got together in groups and sororities and things like that—that we enjoyed it. Some of the youngsters today don't get quite the pleasure out of it that we did, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. They want a little extra to have what they call a good time from what people did when I was young. Susan: How many children did you have? Elsie: Two. Susan: Two. Do you want to tell us about your daughter? Elsie: Oh my daughter lives in California and her husband works for Farm Food Machines Co. He is a comptroller and she is a wife and homemaker and they have three lovely children. My son is single. He's a bachelor by choice and so I don't think he is going to give me any grandchildren, I don't know. He's in Denver, Colorado. Susan: Where did your daughter study her painting? Elsie: She studied in he local schools and then she went to college and took it up in a—oh I'm sorry—but she does do nice work, I think, I enjoy it very much. Susan: Do want to go into your activities with the local clubs here in town? Elsie: Well, I'm the past President of the Civic Club of Binghamton, an organization that of course was for many years ago and is for the interest of the community and of course I am also a past officer of Monday Club but of course Monday Club has a different object. It's more of a lecture club and I also belong to Zonta Club International and I'm active still in that and that is for businesswomen, of course, Zonta Club International, and I enjoy that very much. I belong to West Presbyterian Church and I'm active there still. Susan: You’re active in the business, which we know with all these phones ringing. Elsie: Yes, Yes I still am active in the business—stay active in that and I really enjoy it. If there is something you can do for people when they are going through three of the most difficult days of their—maybe first time they've met with death and it's very difficult to accept and if you can do something to help guide them and help them out a little bit over those three days, I think it's well worth while. Susan: There has been a lot of talk about how old fashioned we are in the way we take care of our loved ones. Do you see any a improvement of that in the foreseeable future? Elsie: Now I don't quite understand the work improvement—a you know at the time of death a one in the past has always wanted to have a funeral service and have the friends come and some people like to have their friends view the body—others like to have a closed casket, others like to have the casket open for the calling hours and closed for the funeral service which of course I think is the natural way to do things but a there is a change the younger people of today. Susan: They have—they have been cutting the hours. Elsie: That's right.  Susan: Which makes it easier on the family. Elsie: Yes, it does make it easier on the family and I notice a considerable difference because we used to have at least three sessions of calling hours and now we have not more than two and a I think that if you have a notice in the Binghamton Press and the Binghamton Sun your friends always make it a point to find time to come at the time you stated in the paper. If they really are a good friend and they want to come they make it their business to get here whenever the family sets the time so that it is easier on a family to have only two hour sessions of calling hours rather than three or four but some people particularly, Armenians and Polish people still insist on about three or four.  Susan: The old fashioned way. Elsie: Uh huh. But now some people have only one. A few people and a if there is sufficient notice in the Binghamton Press and the Sun I think that covers it very nicely for a family. Susan: Let's get on to something else. Is there anything more that you would like to a— Elsie: I haven't given it much thought a—I've told you where I've taught, of course I taught Sunday School too. Susan: Are you concerned? Are you concerned for your grandchildren that there are so many articles written about “why Johnny can't read” and “what's wrong with our school system today?” Elsie: I'm very concerned about that, yes, and I think it's going to be corrected. I think people are becoming aware of it but it has taken a long time for the general public to wake up that children have been pushed on from the second to the third, fourth, fifth and sixth grade and through high school without really properly covering the work that should be theirs to do during that period of time. I'm very concerned about it, yes. Susan: And it is sad when we have so much to work with these days than we had when you were teaching school. Elsie: Very true. Very true and there is more to cover too than there was when I was teaching a—a great deal more to cover and children should become aware of it in the early years of schooling. I formed the habit of doing things and doing them and earning their promotions—not having them just passed on which is really what has been happening and the general—I think we’re really just waking up to the fact, I think other than teachers it hasn't been very well recognized. Susan: And really the teachers haven't had too much to say about what— Elsie: That's very true, they haven't a they have been sort of promoting this let them go in the next grade. Susan: So that people in years to come will know that a lot of us haven't been satisfied with the way things have been going bu we have to go along with— Elsie: And on the college level it's too bad they are no longer held to cutting classes. It's just that they cut them there is nothing really serious happens about it. They just go when they feel like it, do as much work as they care to and sometimes even when they have four years of college they just go on for a year or two if dad and mother want to support them which is tragic really. It’s a, children should grow up to know that they're going to be responsible for themselves at a certain age. Take care of themselves that way.  Susan: Well, thank you Mrs. Parsons, it's been very nice talking with you. Elsie: Well I've enjoyed talking with you. It's been a pleasure I assure you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elsie Parsons Subject The topic of the resource Parsons, Elsie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; LeRayville (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Teachers -- Interviews; Funeral homes; Women -- Societies and clubs; Titus-Parsons Funeral Home Description An account of the resource Elsie Parsons talks about her birth in LeRayville, PA and her move to Binghamton, NY at the age of 3. She received her education at <a href="http://www.potsdam.edu/">Potsdam Normal School</a>, and was a schoolteacher for a short time. She speaks about her husband's funeral business, Titus Parsons Funeral Home. She also mentions her memberships in several civic clubs. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 47 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Parsons, Elsie ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-08-21 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:51 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/3d73c341e8f198d0ac3aa4e95f354756.mp3 9d7a36a2fde45db28cbdf7dfaafe5444 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Goundrey, Eunice Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-06-22 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 42:08 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55931">Interview with Eunice Goundrey</a> Subject LCSH Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Eunice Goundrey Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 22 June 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Miss Eunice Goundrey of 17 Esther Avenue, Binghamton[, New York]. The date is 22 June, 1978. Eunice, you've, um, been a dancer most of your life. And we'd like to, ah, hear some of your viewpoints and experiences in that line. Also, anything else that you want to put on tape for this historical project. To begin with, where were you born, and what was your family background? Eunice: I was born in Binghamton, ah, in the old city hospital which is now General Hospital. Ah, my mother and father were both Binghamtonians. Ah, my mother's family was the, ah, S.J. Kelley engraving company and my father's family…ah, my granddad was Glen Goundrey. And, ah…at one time, he was a blacksmith in the area. And he went into building custom truck bodies and eventually, as he got older, was in charge of the Spaulding Bakery, ah, garage. And that's where he retired from. Wanda: Did he have his own business, this truck building? Eunice: Yes. On Noyes Island. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The Goundreys were originally from the Elmira area—Watkins Glen—and then they, they moved to Binghamton. Wanda: So your early years were spent right here on Esther Avenue, were they? Eunice: Yes. Wanda: And you've been here ever since? Eunice: I think I'm one of the very, one of the very few people that is still living in a home that she was brought to as a baby. [laughter] Wanda: That's true, in this day and age. Eunice: I've gone away and come back and decided this is where I wanted to stay. Wanda: Well how did you get started with, with, ah, dancing? What was your, who influenced you the most on that? Eunice: My mother. Wanda: Your mother. Eunice: My mother was a dancer. Ah, she had had dance training, and though she didn't go on professionally with it, everybody that I have ever talked with, ah, said that, ah, she…had that something extra special that, ah… I never saw my mother dance. And I'm sorry I didn't, but by the time I came along, you see, she had retired and had started to teach, but I—ah, there were no movies at that time for us to capture her, but, ah, she apparently was the darling of Binghamton as far as dance was concerned, and, ah, not so much now because most of her contemporaries are gone, but, ah, people while I was younger would say, "Oh your mother was absolutely, you know, just a beautiful dancer." So she started to teach, anyway, and as my sister and I came along she felt that dance was very much a part of every person's education—whether you used it or not—you benefited from it. So when we were three, four, five years old she had ballet classes and we were expected to take them. So we, ah, did our duty. And you know, Mommy was the teacher and, ah…as we got older, she felt that we should have other training besides just what she could give us. Wanda: Was she mainly a ballet dancer? Eunice: Yes. She did very little tap dancing, but, ah, some people come to town—ah, Lou Fields and Jack Evans, which she felt—um, were of good caliber and so she enrolled us in their school for the tap dancing and continued the ballet with us and from then on, you know, we went on. But she—ah, Mommy was the biggest influence. She never pushed either of us into the dance, but she encouraged us, and I think there's a difference. Wanda: And did your sister continue…to dance? Eunice: Through high school she did, but she didn't care anything about going on further with it. And, ah, when I was in high school, I was teaching for Fields and Evans and had made up my mind I definitely was never going to be a teacher. I was off to New York to perform and that's all there was to it. Well, I knew I had to go to school, you know, to get added training and so forth, but, ah, I never dreamed I would come back and be a teacher and find the fulfillment in it that I have found. Wanda: That's marvelous. So, so where did you continue with your dance lessons after you…? Eunice: I went to the—um, Ballet Arts School in Carnegie Hall for ballet and I also went to the Roy Dodge school, for tap. Jazz was just, just beginning to come in, so that it was just one of those things, you don't know whether it's going to take hold or not and my interest was in the tap and, and the ballet anyway, so that was where I fitted. [Interruption from a motorbike] Wanda: Then—ah, how long—did you live in New York while you were going to these two different schools? Eunice: Yes—um, Shirley Lewis was a former neighbor of mine and she was at NYU at the time, and she was looking for a roommate at the time that I was looking for a place to stay. And—ah, so our mothers got together and decided that the two of us should be roommates. Wanda: And how old were you at the time? Eunice: Eighteen. [laughter] Wanda: Whee—alone in the big city, eh? Eunice: Yes. Yeah. So I went to school and—ah, for a year. Just about. Yes. And then I took the audition at...well, I decided it was about time I made some money and that was a laugh. Um—I—but I wanted to do theatrical work as opposed to nightclub work. So I took an audition at—ah—the Latin Quarter, and also at Radio City Music Hall. And the Music Hall audition came first but—ah, they said they would let us know, which is normal, and then I got a recall from Music Hall. There were about a hundred girls in the first call—in audition—and then they asked a few of us to come back again. And out of that there were another hundred that were all there for audition. And out of—well, what turned out to be about two hundred girls, six of us were chosen. And at the time that acceptance came through, ah, the day before the acceptance had come from the Latin Quarter and I was really upset because I, I didn't really want to do the nightclub work. And I thought—but, you know, I really should do something. And then the Music Hall acceptance came, so I—that's the one I took—and I've never been unhappy. Nightclub work is different than theater—ahm—it's very often—ahm—at the time—ahm—a case where you, ah, must sit down with the customers and, you know, mingle a little bit. Nothing beyond that, but…ah, between shows, I wanted the time to myself. And, you know, I wanted to be a dancer, period. And in the theater you get that—ahm, in nightclub work, you're not so apt to. Wanda: The Latin Quarter has folded, hasn't it? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: And Radio City Hall has nearly folded. Eunice: Yes, it's on its last legs. Yes. Yeah. Ahm—this, ah, last season. Where as I understand it, the state has taken over the payroll and will keep it open at least for another year. Wanda: And with the Rockettes. Eunice: Yes. And the Rockettes now are being starred as they ought to be. Wanda: Good. Eunice: Ahm—I had a notice from the alumni association saying that in this last show that they're doing, the girls are doing three different numbers instead of just one appearance, as they usually do. So the girls—I'm sure they're not getting any more money—but they are at least, you know, coming into their own. Because whenever anybody speaks about Radio City, ahm, Music Hall, it's the Rockettes that come to mind. Wanda: Naturally. Eunice: So, ah…but they were always kind of played down as part of the production. And now they are the featured ones. Which is good. Wanda: So the publicity hasn't been bad. Eunice: No. No. It's a shame, though. Now the last show before the supposed closing, the crowds were around the blocks again and, you know, people were standing in line two and three hours to get in, waiting to get in the way it used to be years ago. And since the reprieve (chuckle) has been given—ahm—the crowds are down again and, ah, so I don't know whether it's the fact that, ah, Music Hall has outlived itself. I know other large theaters in New York…got to that point, but, ah, if it has outlived itself, I will feel better that they have had a year to think it over. Ah—I was told that in December they had gotten all their union contracts signed and were breathing a sigh of relief because that gave them all another two years, you know, before this hassle would start again. And then in January the management announced that the Hall would close. So everybody was panic-struck. And—ah, you know, to me they, they were going to make a major decision with not enough time to think about it. They, to me they will never be able to replace a building like that. The—ah, it was built during the Depression when labor was cheap. Ah—it has facilities in it that probably never could be re—ah—produced, you know, this day and age. Ah—so—to have it torn down and then three or four years from now say, “Gee, you know, we don't have any facility like this." I feel in a year's time they will have at least had a chance to think it over. If then they decide to do it, I will—I will not be happy, but at least I'll feel that they have followed through. Wanda: Do you remember the physical layout? Was it built especially for the theater? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: It was probably quite revolutionary at the time, then, wasn't it—when it was built? Eunice: Yes. That stage, Wanda, is half of the size of a football field. And—ah, you know, beside all the mechanical things that I, I don't know anything about, you know, but—just to lift that huge—big—ah, front curtain took systems that were almost unheard of at the time that that was built in ‘32. So it's, uh, it was… Wanda: What were the living facilities like in the—in the theater? Didn't you have a place— Eunice: No, you never lived in the theater. There was an infirmary and there was a—well, like a, a den sort of thing for the girls to relax in. There was a cafeteria downstairs. That was for all the Music Hall force. Ah, anyone employed there was, you know, could eat there. Ahm…but it was, it was a glorified backstage life. Ahm—primarily dressing rooms and rehearsal halls. There is a rehearsal hall above the theater, ahm, that is, has the same dimensions as the stage. So that the 36 Rockettes, for instance, could, could get in the rehearsal hall, you know, to do a complete rehearsal…with no problems…with spacing and everything else. Wanda: Were there backup girls to—ah, in case somebody couldn't go on? Eunice: There were always thirty-six on stage and twelve on vacation. So if there was a problem then one of the girls on vacation would be called back in. Now you were called—ahm—it was three weeks on, three weeks on stage and one week off, but of that one week off you had to rep—I think—as I recall the week went from Wednesday to Tuesday. So you were required to be back in there on Sunday to find out your spacing from the week that you were coming in. So you didn't really have a full week off. You weren't dancing on stage, but you were, you know, required to be around. Ah—no—many a girl went on stage feeling—very badly, but ahm, the shoes went on and costume went on and the dance went on and you went off and you laid down between shows and you started all over again [chuckles] for four or five shows a day. Wanda: And how often did they change the theme of the, the show? There was always a terrific thing about the Easter show and the Christmas show and the seasonal— Eunice: Well, the holidays—ahm—governed the change of that particular—of the holiday shows, but basically it was the attraction of the movie that governed the stage show. If people were not coming to see the movie then we might run three weeks. If they were piling in, we might do the show for five weeks, because the, the stage show never changed unless the movie changed. So…and then, ah, we would have a week's notice because the, the planning—the preliminary work—is done far in advance for a show, but for staging it, it's all done within a week's time. So Mr. Markert, the Director of the Rockettes at the time, said that if you couldn't learn a routine in a week he couldn't use you. So you're learning one routine while you were dancing on stage doing another one, and—ah, it's an experience but it's, it's, ah… Wanda: Must have been a fast pace. Eunice: It was. I enjoyed it very, very much. I was also very glad to get out of it. [laughs] Wanda: What do you suppose the average, ah, time was that a girl would stay with the Rockettes? Eunice: I don't know the average. Ahm—some of the girls were there for years, and years and years. Ahm—one of the girls, I know, opened the Music Hall and she retired about ten years ago, you know, and I'm sure that was the exception, but—a lot of the girls stayed for a long, long time and there were others that didn't, and I was one of them. Wanda: Do you keep in touch through this alumni association that you have? Eunice: Yes. Ahm—during all this furor of Music Hall closing, ahm—of course there was a lot of publicity in all parts of the country. And, ah, I made a couple of phone calls to girls that I had…I knew their names but I, you know, had long since lost touch with them...but—ahm—when they wanted to interview me here on the radio, I wanted to be sure my facts were up to date, so I got in touch with one and she put me in touch with another one and—it was very interesting. There is a bond from having worked at Music Hall .. that is lasting. It doesn't make any difference whether you knew that particular person at the time or not. Ahm—the fact that you were somebody that worked in the, in the Hall, that, that makes it. So—I have a great big family that's spread all over the country. Wanda: A very exclusive club, I would say. Eunice: Yes. Yes. We're all very proud to have worked there and been part of it. 'Cause it's—ahm—well, it's unique. Ahm, there's no other house in all the world like that. The seating capacity is, think it's 6200. That's a lot of seats to fill every day—four times a day, and that's what it really should be doing, you see. And that's the problem now, that, ah, they're not filling those 6200 seats. Wanda: Well, New York itself has changed so much and so people are a little reluctant to go, just for— Eunice: I am a little reluctant to go, even—these days, ahm. If I am in the City for a dance convention or something of the sort I always go to Music Hall. I, you know I like to go and I know that's one place I can take any of my students and not have to worry about what they're going to see, but we used to always go to the last show—the nine o'clock show—and then go back to the hotel. Now we never wait for the last show, we go to the early evening, you know, six-thirty, seven o'clock, so I can get those kids in off the street. Wanda: Sad. Eunice: It is. So—and I know the people around the New York area itself are worse than I am. They won't, and they won’t go on the streets of New York after dark. So if that's the feeling in the metropolitan area, nothing's going to…I don't think, you know, be a great big moneymaker until the climate of the city changes. People going to theaters will get a hotel and—ah, take a cab and get a cab outside the theater and go back to the hotel. They're—ah, very much afraid to be on the streets. And when I was living down there I felt just as safe as anything. No qualms at all. I walked the streets completely by myself and—no worry at all, but I, I don't have that feeling now. And I don't think it's all me, having gotten older and looking at things differently. Ahm—when my brother-in-law was alive, ahm—and Dick was Assistant Chief of Police here, and he used to warn me, and when he and my sister were first married he never said a word. But he would say, you know, "You just—be careful where you go," and from him that was enough, because, that was enough warning. He was not an alarmist. Wanda: So you're very lucky to be there at the time that you were, weren't you? Eunice: I think so. Yes. Yeah. Wanda: It would be an entirely different thing now. Eunice: I don't really encourage my kids—ahm—to think theater and professional dance. Wanda: Your students. Eunice: Mm-hm. If they want to, you know, I would not discourage them, but at one time, you know, the only reason you danced was so that you could be on stage or—or—ah, continue with the dance part of it in some way and, ahm, I have felt or a long, long time and perhaps because of my mother's influence again, ah—dance should be a part of everybody's education. If, if you dance you will appreciate it, you'll also understand it better and you gain from the discipline that is required from it, as well as the grace and the poise that comes, you know, from having pursued it a little bit longer. But, ahm, I think more and more people now are looking at it that this will add to a child's education. From…as they get older what they do with it is their own business, but it's still, it's like taking piano or an instrument or it's part of the artistic education…for the youngster. Wanda: It builds confidence. Eunice: It does. It does. Wanda: And poise, as you say. Eunice: I…one of my favorite stories is, um…a dear little girl that I had years ago. Her mommy, ahm…she was a preschooler and this was such a shy child. Just, she would not come out of her little shell for anything. And we had her in class—we started in the fall, and by springtime that child was flower girl in a wedding, and the mommy said she just pranced down that aisle and nothing bothered her. And she said, "I have to thank you, because it's the dancing class that has done it." So it, you know…little things like that, ah, make it worthwhile. Wanda: Not a little thing, really. Eunice: Well, no. If you can bring a child out...yes, it's…it's a good feeling. You know that you've done something. Wanda: Have you dealt with, ah, children with physical problems that dancing has helped? Eunice: One of the reasons that I am in business right now is that, ah, when I first came back from New York, my mother got a call from a friend of hers saying that—ah, the lady's grandchild had been run over by a car and both her legs had been broken. Her doctor had taken her as far as he could, and now she needed some exercise—supervised exercise. And he recommended dancing. And would, this lady asked my mother if she would take this child. And Mommy said, "No.” She had hung up her dancing shoes for the last time. But she said, "Eunice is home and maybe she would do it." Well, when I came home I didn't want to teach. That was not—I didn't know what I was going to do, but I wasn't going to teach. So I thought it over and I thought, “Well, I'll take this child with the idea that, you know…if I decide I'm not going to do this, ahm, I will warn the grandmother ahead of time.” Well, that was perfectly Okay. So I took the child, and we began to see the improvement in her. And she was with me for quite a while, and then they moved away, and— Wanda: How did you start with her? What did you do to begin with? Eunice: Basic ballet exercises because the ballet will tone all muscles, and it makes them work, and…ah, with this youngster I had to be careful that she, ah…we didn't push the muscles too hard, because they were in a weakened state to begin. But, ah, she gave me back as much as I was giving her. And I found this reciprocation was apparently what I needed. The applause was not enough - performing, and I knew. I would sit in the dressing room...there had to be more to life than applause and backstage dressing rooms, and so forth. And, ah…so the more I got involved with the kids, the more satisfied I was. Wanda: And from that one student you started taking others? Eunice: Uh huh. And I started that child right here in the living room right in front of the fireplace. We used a dining room chair as a bar, you know, for support for her. And, ah, then the following year, ahm, I sub-leased space in the Masonic Temple from another teacher, and the year after that I was on my own. Still in the Masonic Temple, and I'm still there. Wanda: Oh, still there? Eunice: Yep. We did twenty-ninth year this year. In March I was teaching twenty-nine years. Wanda: How many recitals is that? Eunice: About twenty-eight. Wanda: Yeah? Eunice: Mm-hm. And I have no idea the number of children I've handled, you know, in that length of time. Ahm…I would say probably close to 3,000. That doesn't seem possible! (laughter). But I'm getting, now, some children of—of students of my own, you know, that I had when they were young. It, ahm— Wanda: Amazing. Eunice: Yes, it it's very amazing to me because I don't feel that much older. You know, how can  these girls have babies of their own that they're bringing to me? [laughter] Wanda: Well, it's been good for you physically, too - this sort of work, hasn't it? Keeps you young. Eunice: I've been very happy in the business. Yes. I think anybody dealing with children...stays young. And of course the dance business is an active profession. I'm not one that can sit in a chair and teach. I'm up working with the kids and—ahm, so that does keep me physically active and I hope physically young. Wanda: When do you start with them, what ages? Eunice: I don't take them before they're three and a half. There are, there are teachers that will take them younger than that, but I feel that's glorified babysitting. Wanda: Oh. Eunice: I want them to have an attention span where I can work with them. Ahm—they are not going to be ballerinas or tap dancers—well, I don't put them in tap classes 'til they're five—but they aren't going to be little ballerinas, ahm, by the time they're four and a half. But they will at least know what it is to take a—a dance lesson, and they know that, ahm, we work for a while and we also play, but we work first and then we play. And it's, it's very nice to see these children, ahm, learn the patterns that are expected of them. And I find even with the older ones that...maybe some of the problem in today's society is that kids are not given enough responsibility. When we did recital last weekend, I had no adults backstage at all. And I never have had to have. I ask my teenagers if they will take over a group of younger children and be responsible for them so they are where they're supposed to be. And when the teenagers dance, then the little ones have to stay and watch and—ah, no hitches at all, and I have never had any problems. The older ones assume the responsibility and they know I expect it of them and, ahm…they don't let me down. So I—ahm—I wonder if, if maybe we're doing too much for our kids, rather than… Wanda: I agree. Eunice: …rather than, you know, making them, ahm, letting them grow up and do the things that they ought to do as young people, if we are not trying to do too much for them ourselves. Wanda: And accept the responsibilities as they grow into it. Eunice: Mm-hm. Wanda: Then—ah, have you had—ah, some special students that you'd like to talk about—that made a career of it or anything like that? Eunice: No, ahm—one of my students—ah well, we had two of the girls…audition for, ah, one of the Roxy Theater lines. That was for one of the touring lines, and they both made it, and I was naturally very proud and the kids were pleased. So they were to go to New York for rehearsal and, ah, I think they worked for maybe three or four weeks. Ah—that's the way it was when I was working for them—and then they would go on tour. And the girls were there one week and one of them got homesick, and the other one wouldn't stay without her and so that was the end of that. (laughter). But none of my other kids have been really professionally inclined. My niece is a fine little dancer, but she has done it and completely enjoyed it, but doesn't want to follow it. She thought when she started in at Harpur last year, she might want to be a lawyer—ahm—she's not so sure she wants to do that now—ahm—she's, you know, just taking a liberal arts course, but it's—ah, there again, it's her life. She must do what she wants to with it that will satisfy her, not her mother or me or anybody else. Wanda: The dancing has been a good discipline along the way. Eunice: Very good...very good. Ahm—and she has a real flair for it. Ahm—it's—you know, I think she could do something with it if she decided she wanted to, but apparently that's not going to fill her life for her. She wants something different. And she has taught with me, you know, on a part-time basis, and she has a great way with the kids, so—um, if she ever decides, you know, that she wants to teach as a sideline for whatever profession she chooses, she can do that and, and still, you know, enjoy her dancing. But she continued this, this year even though she has been to college and, and I have no reason to think that she won't stick with it another year or two. So it's—ah, there's a lot of self-satisfaction that comes out of it as well as satisfying somebody else. It's, it's…I, I think it's, it's a two-way street. Wanda: Do you have any preference for, for teaching ballet or tap? What other types of dancing? Eunice: There is modern jazz, too. Twenty years ago I would have said yes, very definitely, that I had a choice—ahm—the tap was always my favorite, but if, now, if somebody said, "You may teach one or the other," I would feel that I had lost one arm or the other if I couldn't do, you know, everything. Ah—it becomes—each is a different expression and you're able to bring different things out of different people with different types of dance. Wanda: Modern music seems to fit in with the jazz type of dancing. Eunice: Yes. Now...the...young teenagers—they love the jazz, and, ahm—that—a ballet background helps in that. And a little bit of tap doesn't hurt either, but—ahm—the jazz is, is an expression for the young people. Wanda: More than an interpretive thing, isn't it? Eunice: Well—uhm—interpretive to a point. When you're doing modern jazz you're always interpreting somebody else's choreography. In my studio it's my choreography. Ahm—the way I would choreograph a routine. I do encourage the kids to, you know, to give to me what they're feeling with what I'm also giving to them, and—ah, it's very interesting—you get different styles coming out. But I—now there are other schools that there is one style and if you study there, you know, you must have—everybody looks alike…like they came out of a machine. And I, I, I feel that—ah, you know, the kids should be encouraged to express themselves, too. If I see something I don't like, I'll tell them. But I also, if I see something I do like, I tell them. Wanda: Do you teach—a precision routine in your classes? Eunice: Yes. That is...I have two precision lines. The junior line I call the Goundrey Girls and the senior line are the Eunettes. And—a—so that the younger kids are working to make a place for themselves in one of these two lines. So we always close the recital with the Eunettes. That has been forever and ever and ever, and it probably will be until they roll me out in a wheelchair. [laughter] Wanda: With a high kick, huh? Eunice: But it's—you know we all have our, our own thing that we do, and our studio crowd now expects the Eunettes to close the show and so we do. The thing that is difficult these days is to find music for a line routine. Now that sounds strange, but the disco beat is not a precision line beat, and it's very difficult. And this year we went back to—ah, a version of “In The Mood” for the Eunette number. Wanda: Is that a fact! Eunice: It was a new recording, but it was in the old style and it worked beautifully. In fact the Boston Pops recorded it and so we had a fine orchestra behind us...(laughter) by recording—yep. (Phone rings) Excuse me. Wanda: Um—could you tell us something about the connection with the Roxy road shows? Eunice: Yes. After I left Radio City Music Hall…ehm, I, you know…went back to school for a while and—um, I decided that I still had to make some money. I was also working at Wanamaker’s in New York and—ah, I—so I took the audition and—at the Roxy—and at the time they were hiring for dancers that they sent out on the road to do State and County Fair work. And so I—they were hiring, you know, like a hundred girls. There was no competition there, not really. And so I went out on the road the first year and during the summer and, ah, thoroughly enjoyed it. However, my family was not very happy at all. When I said I was going to work in the fairs all they could see was a 'girlie' show. And—I—my grandfather, who was very influential in my life, and when I told him, he just had a fit. And I said, "Grandpa, we will play Elmira," and we were playing in front of the grandstand, which would be an arena-type—today an arena-type show. And, ahm—the Roxyettes did five numbers in the show and then there were vaudeville acts in between. It, it was a very lovely stage show—outdoor presentation. So, ahm, I knew what I was doing, but my grandfather was far from convinced, I'll tell you. And when I came, got to Elmira, he was there waiting. (Laughter). I had made the agreement with him that he would see the show and see the set-up, and if he did not approve then I would leave, I would give my notice. Well he was there—we played Elmira for the week, and he was there the first day and he met the company manager and approved of him, which was one step, and he met everyone else and I think he was there three—or four times during that week, really checkin' this thing out for his grandchild. And—he was there to see us leave on our way to Ottawa then, which was our next stop, and he kissed me and he said, "You have a good time sweetness, you're, you're in good hands." So I got back in after, off that tour—we got back in on a Sunday, and on Monday the theater called and said, "We are doing one of the routines that you did on the road and we need a replacement. Will you please come in?" So I was there then, ahm, you know, for the rest of the time that I was in New York. So, you know, that was a case where they—ahm—apparently had had good reports on me, you know, so I walked right into that—into the theater line, there was no problem. And very much enjoyed it there, but it was there that I began to wonder, you know, is there something more to this life than applause and dressing rooms and what have you? Wanda: Was that four or five shows a day? Eunice: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. And then you rehearsed the one you were going to do, you know, prior to that, in the morning and between shows. But I made some awfully good friends there and I'm, I'm so glad I had the opportunity for those things. And then when I did come home and started to teach, ahm, the Roxy called me back and wanted to know if I wouldn't work summers for them. So I really had the very best of the two lives that I was leading. During the summer I would do the professional work for the Roxy, and I would come back home and open the school in October and work through until June and go into New York and do the same thing over again. And I did that for about seven years. So I finally decided, you know, you must make your choice—one way or the other—and the teaching meant more to me than the performing. And of course when, these days when you're teaching you can still perform with the kids. And so I, I've ended up doing exactly what I wanted to do. I'm so glad somebody didn't say to me, "You must work in an office the rest of your life." (Laughter). Maybe there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to teach dancing, but— Wanda: Well, how about the costumes? Um—I happen to know that you're a pretty good girl with a sewing machine. Ah—have you always been involved in making and designing the costumes for these recitals? Eunice: Yes. When I first started to teach we had to make all the costumes and—ah, the years have gone by, so costume business has become very commercial, and by sending measurements to various companies we are now able to buy most of the costumes at a fairly reasonable price. By the time you would figure materials and labor and, you know, having to have someone make them, ahm...at least when you order them they come...they're all alike. There are very few alterations have to be done on them. They are done with elastic backs or elastic sides, you know, for the heavier child and the slimmer child—to compensate. Ahm, and from the standpoint that I am doing the direction o the show, then I choose the costumes to go with what I feel, you know, is needed. Ah—the parents all pay for the costumes and then the youngsters have them. Ah—there are always a few that I make each year. Ahm, I think I did eight or nine of them this year that—ah, well I wanted a certain thing and I didn't find it, and in one case I had three little boys in, in a tap class, and they were going to be cowboys. And the girls’ costumes that I had found were white and they were trimmed in blue and white gingham. And they were to wear the little white western hats and, you know, have a few blue spangles. So I asked the mommies of the boys to find some gingham shirt. And they scoured this town. And one of the mommies said, "The only thing we have found is a size 8 for twelve dollars." And I said, "No way." So I made them. And we came out much better financially—ahm—and I had exactly what I wanted them to have and—ah, you know, but it, it's a rare case like that, these days, that you can't really find what you're after. Ahm—but there are so many costume houses now that there's usually a pretty good variety, and I purposely don't order from one house because then it gets to be all the same style. But, ah, costuming is a lot easier now than it was twenty years ago. Wanda: How fortunate! You'd have to have an attic overflowing. Eunice: Yes. Ohhhh. I do have one set of Santa Claus outfits that I made for my Eunettes, and—ah, that was to be an extra number at one time, so I, I made the big coats, and the girls wear red tights, you know, because for a dancing girl you have to be able to see their legs, so—ah, the Santa Claus jackets and caps I kept myself. And at Christmas time when we go around to the nursing homes and so forth, then I bring these out and whoever happens to be in the line at the time wears them—there's no real fit to them—and, ah, that makes a very nice closing to our Christmas program, see. But—ah—yes, there are many things in my attic! [both laugh] Wanda: Well, and a lot of memories in your head, too, and I thank you very much— Eunice: I've enjoyed this. Wanda: —for telling us about it. Eunice: It's fun to reminisce! Wanda: It certainly is. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eunice Goundrey Subject The topic of the resource Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Description An account of the resource Eunice Goundrey talks about her family's past and her mother's encouragement of her dance career from her childhood through her training at Ballet Arts School (New York, N.Y.) and the Roy and Jane Dodge school and her career as a Rockette at Radio City Music Hall. She discusses the impact of being a Rockette and later touring with the Roxyettes, a travelling dance group. She discusses her years teaching dance to children, methods of teaching, dancing as therapy, and highlights specific people and students that affected her in particular. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 29 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Goundrey, Eunice ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-22 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 42:08 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/4f4d3c26a75d5d6b7911195034803c16.mp3 5fb0d0acb87fcf5b55069604eaf4d676 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56948">Interview with Eunice L. Davidson</a> Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:58 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Subject LCSH Teachers -- Interviews; Davidson, Eunice L.-- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cheese factories; Syracuse University; Mathematics; Washington (D.C.); United States Army Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Eunice L. Davidson Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 11 October 1978 Susan: Miss Davidson, could we start this interview by having you tell us something about where you were born and, ah, anything that you'd care to tell us about your parents? Eunice: Well, I was born up in Chenango County, in Tyner, NY. My father had come from—his folks had come, rather, from Saratoga and lived up there, and he owned a cheese factory there. My mother had come from down in Pennsylvania, and they married and then, ah—this cheese factory he had bought really was one of the very first, ah, cheese factories in this side of, ah, the—ah, the ah, Hudson River, and it really was historic. And it was called the Deer Spring Factory because there was a very cold spring there that, ah—and it was deep and they kept it—at that time they kept their milk down in cans, and the cheese in the spring, which they didn't have the modern equipment, but it was the way they kept it in those days to keep it from souring and to keep it just right. Then, ah, when I was four years old my mother died and we—my brother and my sister and I were left with my father. My brother stayed with my father while my sister went with another aunt over at, in—in the town of Smithville, and I was adopted by a man in Greene, NY. We lived in Greene. I start—my sister came down and lived with us, and we lived there and started in school. When I was in the eighth grade we moved to Binghamton and, ah, at about six months after we moved to Binghamton, we moved down here on Tremont Ave. and my mother and my sister or I—I have lived here ever since. Now, I didn't always live here, because I've been away to school and work. When we moved here, there was, this part of the city was, well, it had been farmland, and the barns from the farms were still here. There were one over here next door to us and there was one across the street, and the one that had the barn over there across the street had horses, and I can remember his bringing—if we wanted anything brought, we didn't have taxis, but he would bring it to us with that horse and carriage or horse and wagon, and of course there weren't so many buildings. I can remember when they tore the old barn down and then built up around here. They built the apartment houses over at #1 Tremont and, ah, then, ah, next door they tore the barn down, but they didn't rebuild in there but there was quite a little land with that building, a little farmhouse, and they had divided it up, built an apartment house at #7, and they built another house above that and, ah, we of course went to school here, it was, of course our schools were different than they are today. We didn’t have to have flat (one story) without walking upstairs. When I first came here, I went over on Washington Street to the eighth grade. I was in the eighth grade when I came down here and, ah, had classes over there. Then the next year, when I finished the eighth grade, they were starting to build the new high school—the Binghamton Central High, which is there now, and then of course we went to school over here at, ah, it's where the Abraham Lincoln School is. It was the old New Street School, and we had our classes half a day. The New Street School children came half a day and, ah, we went there two years in that school before the high school was rebuilt. Susan: When you went away to school, Miss Davidson, where did you go? Eunice: I went to Syracuse University and put in four years there. A little incident that tells of how the times have changed, maybe, is, once—I was, of course we traveled back and forth on the train, and not by bus or cars as they do now, and we were stuck in the snow one day when I was coming down, up at, ah, just a little above Cortland, and there was a snow belt through there, and the train was stopped and we were there hours before we came through. Susan: What did you study in Syracuse? Eunice: Well, I studied Liberal Arts—I studied, Mathematics was my major and Latin was my minor. Then, ah, after that, of course, I taught for a while. Susan: Which schools did you teach in? Eunice: Well, I taught up at, ah, Crown Point, NY, and I don't want to go into all—and over here, a year in Central High. Susan: Oh, at Central. Eunice: I decided then to get out of teaching and do something else, so finally after several years in which I did different things, I went to Washington, D.C. to work for the government. I worked in the Army Finance and we—which was very interesting, interesting in Washington, but of course we, ah, didn't—it wasn't the same Washington that it is today, but let me go back in when—I was in school, our education, I think we had a wonderful education, because they taught us how to find things, how to change. We weren't taught just one thing, how to do it. We were taught that learning was living, and we should really find out and think how to change, and of course mathematics is great for that because you can't solve your problems unless you think of all the angles, and that helps you in living today. Susan: Miss Davidson, would you like to go back and tell us what life was like, ah, when you were living out in the country? Eunice: Well, when we were in Greene we had some wonderful neighbors. They did things for us. I remember in, ah, my first Christmas tree—one of the neighbors brought it and left it at our back door, and Mother, that was my adopted mother, was left alone. She had my sister and I there and she was trying to bring us up, and the neighbors really helped to do it, and when there was snow the boy over in the, ah—neighbor—one of the neighbors’ boys came over and shoveled out, I can remember shoveling out all around the house one day because he didn't know which door we wanted to go into when we came home, and another thing that was different in those days, I think the whole town knew who people were. They respected them and they helped one another. The churches worked harder. They were interested in the people and we had, ah, parties. I can remember a sleigh ride, going from Greene down to Chenango Forks for a sleigh ride. It was three sleighs, of course they were small churches. Once we went to another church and had a party down there and then came back, and it was things like that—that made life really interesting. One day we took some popcorn, went over to a neighbor’s and we had popcorn—ate it, and I think neighbors helping one another really helps. It makes life so much different than it is of today. Now we don't know our neighbors, they come and go, especially in the apartment houses around here, they change so often that we don't know them, and we have had some trouble with children. Well, one day we had a—they would pull up the—our posts that we have to help us come up the railings out there, and they keep pulling them up ’til one of the neighbors said, "Well, we needed that to come in.” And the children left it alone. I think that they don't realize what they're doing. It is the neighbors and knowing people, and then too, we didn't have to be educated to one thing. I think it all helped in growing up and well—then, of course, things were different, we—we had to do more things for ourselves. We didn't use taxis. I can't remember when we first, ah, used the taxi, of course when we came to Binghamton there was a trolley car that went. I can remember its going up to Ross Park, and we used to ride up there, although as a child I think we walked up there and we took hikes and beyond. We enjoyed that. The neighbors, not—there was a neighbor girl in school with me right next door, and we would, really enjoyed life in those days. Is that what you want to know? Susan: Well, that's fine. Are you sure there isn't anything more that you'd care to add? Eunice: Well, probably there is a lot of things. There were so many things that happened that were interesting, but of course it came out in the Sunday paper about—that about the fires over town that weekend, remember those fires? Susan: Yes, the Overall Factory. Eunice: Yes, yes, we remember that when it happened. Susan: Were you there? Eunice: We were overtown, Mother and I—were overtown, but ah, we didn't go to it or anything. We could just see the smoke and all from that. Susan: Thank you very much, Miss Davidson. Eunice: You’re welcome. Susan: It's been nice talking with you. Eunice: I hope it helps. There's so much that could probably have been said, but I just cannot think of it today. Susan: Well, thanks again. Date of Interview 1978-10-11 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Davidson, Eunice L. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eunice L. Davidson Description An account of the resource Eunice Davidson speaks of her father's cheese factory, the first one west of the Hudson, called the Deer Spring Factory. She discusses her experience growing up on Tremont Avenue in the city of Binghamton, watching it grow from farmland into an urban community. She studied math and Latin at Syracuse University and became a teacher, before moving to Washington, D.C. to work for the Department of Finance for the Army. She shares her experience watching farmlands change into more urban areas where she lived. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-10-11 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 74 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Davidson, Eunice L. ; Dobandi, Susan Subject The topic of the resource Teachers -- Interviews; Davidson, Eunice L.-- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cheese factories; Syracuse University; Mathematics; Washington (D.C.); United States Army Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Extent The size or duration of the resource. 24:58 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0f2f717588a27b8de477567116398046.mp3 e70149249db6fe61300777d462564aab https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/479dab3c16426a44282d18dd17d3af4f.mp3 ccbc935f875e9dcb33bd2613988ee3fd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Isenburg, Florence Parsons Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 49:06 Minutes ; 10:58 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55947">Interview with Florence Parsons Isenburg</a> Subject LCSH Isenburg, Florence Parsons -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms; Teachers -- Interviews; Cortland (N.Y.) Normal School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Florence Parsons Isenburg Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 12 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood: interviewer. And our respondent is Mrs. Florence Isenburg of 1216 Poppy Avenue, Warrington, Florida. The date is 12 January, 1978. Florence: I have been asked to record some of my memories of my early life. I was born May 14, 1889, so I will soon be 89 years old. Marge [Florence’s daughter]: Go. Florence: —to a farm family living at Chenango Bridge near the Chenango River. Our family consisted of my father and mother Herbert and Emma Parsons and one sister. The house we lived in is still standing and occupied, but is very old as it was owned by my grandparents and perhaps built or partly built by my grandfather, as he was a carpenter. My father loved the farm, which he purchased from his mother when he married. He raised vegetables, including potatoes, sweet corn, tomatoes, onions, beans, melons, berries and had many fruit trees.This produce he carried to market with a team of horses and wagon to sell to the grocery stores, hotels and hucksters or street peddlers. On the farm we also raised pigs, cows, chickens and had two horses to do the farm work. With all of these vegetables and animals we had plenty of good, nourishing food. We had a grocery store but were not able to buy any baked goods or fresh fruits or vegetables, so we practically lived off the farm. Mother made butter from the cows’ milk. After straining it in the milk cans, it was set in the cellar until the cream came to the top, when it was skimmed off into a large pail. After a few days it was poured into a wooden churn with a dasher by plunging the dasher up and down for a few minutes until the butter was separated from the sour milk, which was then called buttermilk. The butter was taken out in a wooden butter bowl, washed, salted and packed in jars. Most of it was sold, but we used all we needed. Mother worked very hard as she had no household appliances, no running water, no electricity. She made all of our clothes, washed using a rubbing board after heating the water on the stove. We had a refrigerator cooled by large blocks of ice which was stored in an ice house after being cut on the river in the winter and stored for summer use. The refrigerator didn't keep the food very cold, so most of it was carried to the cellar. But one advantage of having the ice was that we had homemade ice cream, which was delicious. It was a good life. We did not miss the things we had never had. Everyone did his share of the work. Summers were very busy, but in winter we had time to sit around the fire, or visit with a neighbor, occasionally. Of course usually when we went to the neighbor's home in the evening they popped corn and brought big red apples from the cellar for our refreshments. Mother canned and pickled hundreds of jars of fruits and vegetables which were stored in the cellar for winter. Dad butchered a hog, making sausage and ham for our own use. There was always a ham for Sunday dinner or for company. People now are complaining about their utility bills which are high—are high. We had no utility bills as we had no electricity, no gas, no telephone, no garbage collection, no running water, no mail delivery. And yet, we did not feel depressed or poor. The church was the center of social life. We looked forward to Sunday when we could wear our one best dress and see all our friends. Occasionally there was a church supper when everyone took a covered dish and enjoyed a meal with friends. There were also simple church socials in the summertime. The principal event of summer was the Sunday School picnic, which was held at either Ross Park in Binghamton or at Lily Lake. At the park were animals in cages and a merry-go-round. At the lake were boats and we could go bathing but the water was so cold so the children all preferred to·the park—to go to the park. A bountiful dinner was supplied by all who attended. The one-room rural school which I attended from ages 6-14 was on a lot adjoining our farm. My sister and I had only to walk across the garden to get to school. That had advantages and disadvantages. It was very easy to get there even in winter when the snow was deep, but in good weather Mother insisted that we come home for lunch, which in our house was called dinner, the main meal of the day. That took too much of our noon hour when we wanted to play with the other children. There were usually 15-25 pupils of all ages and grades from 1-8 with one teacher. This teacher was also the janitor, sweeping the floor, hanging the flag, getting the pail of water, building the fire unless she engaged one of the boys to do it. She received about $8.00 per week and usually boarded with one of the families. In earlier days the teachers boarded around, that is, stayed a week in a place with some of the parents where they paid no board. Then when they paid board it was $2.50 per week. We sometimes boarded—we sometimes boarded a teacher. There were two doors at school—they were two doors—two doors from a hall—one for the boys, one for the girls. In the center of the room was a large pot-bellied stove, which burned wood in summer and coal in winter. There were four rows of double seats in graduated sizes. The teacher's desk faced these with a large recitation bench between. As the class recited they left their seats and sat on the recitation bench. While one class recited the others were supposed to be preparing their own lessons. With so many classes they were necessarily short and pupils had to do much of the work for themselves without the teacher's help. That had some advantages. Teachers were allowed to punish the disobedient ones—and usually did so to keep order. I well remember several of my teachers and know I had a feeling of fear and admiration for them. They believed in the adage “spare the rod and spoil the child,” so they didn't spoil the child. It would seem that under these conditions education would have been poor, but we were obliged to memorize tables, to memorize spelling, to study maps and to learn many facts from our reading which are not required today. [Parents] were obliged to furnish the children's books, pencils, and papers. Some slate pencils were used to save paper. Every year the teacher was allowed to borrow 25 books from the state library for use during the year. It was an exciting day when the books arrived to see what we were getting to read. There was a bookcase in our room but very few books. Our blackboards were boards painted with black paint which soon wore off. After a time, one progressive trustee had some real blackboards installed. In the rear of the building—on either side—was a small outhouse or privy, as they were called. One for the girls, one for the boys, with a very high board fence between. In the hall, on a high shelf, was a water pail and dipper from which everyone drank—no fear of germs in those days! I credit my 8th grade teacher in preparing me to take the Regents Exams which must be passed in order to enter High School. They came from the State and were uniform, used in all schools. I had to go to Chenango Forks on the train to take them, and as I had never been to a strange school, I was frightened. There were exams in all subjects which took two days, but I passed them all due to my very good teaching. Now I had finished our rural school and there was no high school nearby—what was I to do? The high school in Binghamton was the nearest, but we had no way of getting back and forth. We found that there was a train service going north to Whitney Point 15 miles away, so my parents decided to send me there. The train returning at 4 P.M. was a freight train with a small coach for passengers in the rear. It was slow, but it allowed us to do our homework. The D.L. & W. Railroad issued special monthly tickets to students. I well remember my first day at high school in Whitney Point. The building looked very large to me. The lower grades were on the first floor and high school on the second floor. I climbed the stairs and straight ahead of me was the large auditorium where pupils were sitting. Mother had made me a new dark blue dress and I had a dark blue hat. Everyone wore hats in those days. I did not notice the cloakroom at the left, so walked right into the room with my hat on my head. I was so embarrassed as the others laughed, so I have never forgotten about it. High school in those days did not provide so many subjects as they do today. There were no easy subjects like Shop, Bowling, Homemaking, etc. Everyone must take Math, English, History and a foreign language or two—later Geometry, Physics, Science, etc. I remember we had a small laboratory where we dissected several small animals. I did not enjoy that. On finishing a course we were obliged to pass a Regents Examination sent by the State, and after completing a certain number of subjects we were graduated. I was then 18 years old in 1907. Someone asked me recently why I became a school teacher. I really had not thought about it before. I believe there were several factors which brought it about. My grandmother Parsons had nine children, and sometime during their life, eight of them taught school. I also had several cousins who taught. As I have said our home was the old farmhouse where the nine Parsons children were brought up. In the upper hall and attic were shelves of books they had used and left. I used to enjoy looking at them and reading them. I think these things influenced me to become a teacher, besides I always have loved school. There were several Normal schools in New York State. They are now 4 year colleges. Cortland was the nearest to us and I had some cousins living there.Today it is an easy drive on a good road of about 40 miles. In 1907 it was a long journey on a train. My parents bought me a trunk, which I still have to pack my clothes, as I didn't expect to come home often. I got a room near the college building and took my meals at a home nearby with about 20 other girls. Our studies consisted in methods of teaching, psychology, and review of all other grade subjects. Later we had observed model teaching using students from the grades who attended school here. During one last term we did the teaching under supervision of the Normal teachers. This was the most difficult, as we knew we were being criticized. I joined the sorority Clionian. We had a meeting room in the building and had many good times, however I was very homesick much of the time I was here. Nowadays a student could drive home every week if they desired. My first teaching experience was in a small rural school similar to, in many ways, to the one I had attended as a child. It was on Upper Front Street, then called Christian Street. I had 12 or 15 pupils in several grades and received $10 per week and did the janitor work. As it was about 2 ½ miles from home, I often drove a horse and buggy in summer or a horse and sleigh in winter. If Dad needed the horse I walked. Sometimes the snow was about to my knees, so I arrived very wet and had to build a fire in the pot-bellied stove before I could get dry. As the children arrived they were also cold and wet, so they sat or stood around the stove much of the forenoon. I can still smell the wet mittens and scarves as they were drying. We opened the school in the morning by a Bible reading and repeating the Lord’s Prayer. Books were hard to come by, but many times some second-hand ones were to be found by an older child who had used them. By using the blackboard it was possible to start work in Arithmetic and Spelling, supplemented by books I had selected. Most parents were willing to provide supplies for their children. The teaching was largely individual as the children were all at different levels of learning. A few subjects could be taught to the whole group at one time, such as Writing, Health and Physiology. I do not remember having any problems with the children as to discipline. In those days children respected their teachers and looked up to them. What the teacher said was right. How different it is today! At noon we used to go out and ride downhill—there was a hill nearby—and then in the evening, after school was out, we used to go skating. That was great fun. Most of my 20 years of teaching was done in my home district where I had attended school. For several years I taught in the same small one-room building until the population grew—until there were about 40 pupils, just too many for one teacher. A new building was erected and two teachers hired. The salary had greatly advanced from $10.00 per week to $40.00. I taught grades 5 to 8 in the new school. It seemed that this would be sufficient for many years, but in a short time the town had grown so that a larger school was necessary and also a high school. I will tell you a little more about our neighborhood. We had a few near neighbors whom we saw often in the evening, or if anyone was sick. We seldom called a doctor, but neighbors came to help and always brought food. There was a doctor who made house calls, so in that way we were more fortunate than people are today. Midwives delivered the babies, doctors were not needed. My grandmother delivered dozens of them.The threshers came once a year to thresh the grain and we always had husking bees in the evening which were lots of fun. Mother always had a big dinner for the husk—or for the threshers. At the end of the bridge—farther end of the bridge on the right was a blacksmith shop where Dad took the horses to be shod. I used to go along and watch. On the left was the tollhouse where the man lived who collected the toll from the Chenango Canal, which ran along close to the river. I do not remember when the canal was being used but in winter it froze and made a wonderful skating pond. Hiram Johnson had a small grocery store near the depot and railroad. Near the door on the left were about 30 boxes for mail. That was our post office. He also sold stamps. We had no daily paper, but a weekly Binghamton Republican came once a week. Dad liked to go to the store in the evening to sit around the stove and hear the news. His excuse was to go for the mail. Nearly every home had a hitching post and horse block in front at the roadside. Callers usually came with a horse and wagon, so the hitching post was necessary. The horse block was a large stone or else a lot of little stones piled up. It was necessary because the wagons were much higher from the ground than our cars are today. Women wore long skirts so it was quite difficult to get into them. By standing on the horse block and taking a step that extended from the wagon, they could climb into the wagon seat. Our kitchen was the most important room of the house. It was a large room with a hard pine floor which Mother cleaned and oiled to keep it shiny. A black iron cook stove kept us warm and cooked and baked much delicious food. There was a reservoir attached to one side which we kept filled with—to provide the hot water. It was all the hot water we had except for the tea kettle, because we had no bathroom. A large extension table had many uses. We ate on it often, although Mother liked to set the table in the dining room. The table also provided a place for us to study, to read, and to sort beans in the winter. Dad raised shell-beans, but before he could sell them they had to be looked over to remove any poor ones and shells. The table was lighted by a kerosene lamp. Often in the evening we had to help Mother sew carpet rags. The only carpets we had were woven on looms—made of rags. They were woven in strips about one yard wide, and sewed. Aunt Celia had one room where she had a large loom. She wove carpets for us and for many other people. At the end of the room was a black iron sink and pump—which—the pump raised water from a cistern. Our drinking water came from a well and bucket in the backyard. Behind the stove was a shelf which held a row of kerosene lamps, which had to be cleaned and filled frequently. On the shelf was a very old clock with wooden works and two heavy iron weights. Father wound it every night as he went to bed. Bedrooms were very pleasant in summer but very cold in winter. Our house was heated by two stoves—cook stove in the kitchen and a parlor stove in the parlor. As we had no bathroom, bedrooms had a wash bowl and pitcher and a washstand which in the bottom had a little door which held the chamber pot. We had to be sure no water was left in the pitcher in winter as it would freeze. Some of the older beds were called cord beds—instead of springs, a heavy rope was woven across between the side rails to hold up the mattress. The mattress—the mattress was a pad and then ticking filled with corn husks or dried straw and on top of that a feather bed—filled—a bed filled with feathers. Sheets were not bought ready-made—as they are today. Some were made of muslin, often unbleached muslin which was a yard wide, so the sheet always had a seam down the middle. When they began to wear thin women turned the sheet sewing the outside edges together so that they would last longer. Other sheets were made of linen. Linen is made from flax—stems of the flax plant. This was another task that colonial women had to do. There was a small flax wheel and a larger spinning wheel which made the fibers into threads. The thread was then woven on a loom to make linen cloth. Sheets and pillow cases, tablecloths and napkins were made of the linen cloth. The sheets also had a seam down through the middle. I think sometimes the linen was used for fine underwear, such as for a bridal outfit. Sheet-blankets made out of cotton or wool were also used in winter with many bed quilts. Quilting bees were another social activity. When a quilt top was finished the neighbor women were invited in to help put it on the quilting frame and to quilt it with many fine stitches. There are many quilt patterns. Some of the most popular were Wedding Ring, Double Irish Chain, Dresden Plate, Necktie, and Log Cabin. A bedspread or coverlet called a counterpane was woven on a loom using white cotton warp and navy blue, or occasionally red wool for the woof. There were many beautiful patterns. They were reversible and often had the weaver's initials woven in the corner. They also were seamed through the center. People dressed differently in those days. I have already stated that women's skirts were long. They were also full, covering two petticoats. In winter everyone wore long underwear, that is the long legs and long sleeves of heavy knitted cotton. In summer the underwear still covered much of the body, but was of a lighter weight. Women wore corsets laced in the back and it was the style to lace them tight to have a small waistline. Over these was worn a corset cover, a garment without sleeves and low neck to cover the corset. Bras and shorts had not been invented. Some men working outside in the cold weather wore felt boots extending to the knees and over them a rubber arctic with buckles. My father wore rubber boots with sock slippers inside. Blue jeans did not have the popularity they have today. They were worn by farm laborers and those doing menial jobs. It was unheard of for a girl to wear pants of any kind. Children’s clothing was somewhat like their parents’. Girls’ dresses were well below the knees. I had one best dress for winter made of wool, and one summer best dress for Sunday. The winter dress just before—was made just before Christmas and the summer dress for Children's Day, which was celebrated with a program in our church on the second Sunday of June. Of course we had several other dresses for school but not too many. We were—we wore them until they were—we grew out of them or they were worn out. Bathing suits have made the greatest change of all. How shocked my mother would be to see a present day, bather! Ladies' bathing suits were bloomers to the knees, often with black stockings and sneakers below. The blouse often had a sailor collar. They were made of a material called brilliantine. Oh yes, we also wore a cap to cover our hair. Children wore an old dress and a pair of underpants. Men's shorts—men’s suits were knitted cotton which came to the knees and covered most of the body. We really went “bathing” instead of “swimming,” as it was difficult to swim with so many clothes. The first sewing machine we had was a Howe, propelled by a pedal, but much sewing was done by hand. Ladies would not think of making bed quilts on a machine. They were all sewed by hand and quilted. Only one home in our town had a bathroom. It was very different from today's bath—baths. The tub was zinc—in a wooden case like a coffin. The water to flush the tub—the toilet—was in a wooden box near the ceiling with a chain extending from it, which was pulled to release the water. Marge: I don't know what happened here, Wanda, but there's more, so just let it continue to play. Florence: In summer quite often we had the company of bees and in winter our stay was short because of the cold. Father's farm lantern made a cheery light if necessary to make an evening call. These were called backhouses or privies, and on Hallowe'en it often happened that the backhouse was overturned by celebrators. Speaking of baths—the rest of us who had no baths—bathrooms, used the wash bowl and pitcher in our bedroom in summer, but in winter we filled a washtub half full of water and bathed in front of the kitchen stove on Saturday night. Father planned an ambitious project to have running water in our house. Our farm extended on the north up a very steep hill where here was a natural spring of water. In order to pipe the water down a ditch had to be dug through a very stony hard soil. It also had to cross over a, quite a long—a big hill which we called the knoll. To avoid freezing, this ditch must be at least 4 or 5 feet deep. Today it would be done by machinery, but at that time it had to be dug with pick and shovel, and with lots of muscle and perseverance. A small lead pipe was placed in the ditch and although the pressure was weak—we at last had cold running water in our kitchen sink. It was several years after that before we had a bathroom. As population increased, telephone and mail service became necessary. A stock company was formed called the Chenango Valley Company, in which interested people bought stock and a line was constructed with a central office in the little village—at first in a private home. By calling through central we were able to talk to Binghamton. Eventually a rural mail delivery—R.F.D. #4—was inaugurated, but we still, even today, have a post office in Chenango Bridge. Electricity came later, when I was about 25 years old, as I remember giving up my kerosene lamps and having electric lights put in the house. We finally had radio. It was an Atwater-Kent, the first one we had. The program I remember best was Amos and Andy. Here is a little more about my school-teaching days. You may be sure with 15 or 25 pupils in about 5 or 6 grades, the teacher was very busy and classes had to be short—about 15 minutes each. About the time of World War II some department in education hierarchy decided that Physical Training should be taught in all the schools. In order to teach it, the teachers were obliged to take lessons. So we had several classes where we learned to give the commands for daily drills similar to those given to the soldiers. These we were obliged to do at least twice a day. This was required for several years and then discontinued. I am sure the children got all the exercise that they needed at recess and noon hours. Most of them had a long walk home—there were no school buses in those days. There have been many changes in schools since my school days of 80 years ago, not in just the buildings, but in the many other ways. There's no doubt that the present buildings are much finer, more convenient, conducive to the health and welfare of the children. Also there is no comparison in the cost of the two buildings, and in the cost of their upkeep. A teacher today may receive in one day what a teacher in an early rural school received in a month. But are the results in proportion to the cost? Are children today so much better educated? I grant that young people are now better informed than in early days, but I attribute that partly to the various ways that news is disseminated, such as radio, television, magazines, newspapers and not entirely to their formal education. Perhaps I'm not qualified to judge the education of today as I have not taught in nearly thirty years, but I have grandchildren who have gone through the grade schools, through high school and two have been to college, so I have had some contact with present day schools in Florida. I know schools differ from state to state, so perhaps what I say about our Florida schools may not apply in Broome County. However I think in a general way all states have their problems in education. There has been a universal complaint that high school students and even some college students cannot read as they should. Recently all students here about to graduate from high school, had to take a literacy test in order to receive a diploma. What is the cause or causes of this deficiency? It cannot be laid to the teachers entirely, as it is so widespread. I may be wrong, but I think I can see at least partly the causes. About twenty or twenty-five years ago the word method of teaching reading in the primary grades, was introduced. A child was taught word for word by repetition of that word in the stories he read. He was helpless to learn new words until they appeared in his reading lessons. Formerly, children were taught phonics, learning the sounds of the letters so that when he encountered a new word, he had the ability to sound it out and pronounce it. The textbooks used were written to teach the word method, so unless the teacher taught it on her own, they did not learn phonics. Many teachers did use the sound method, and that—pupils became better readers. I saw examples of this in my own grandchildren. At last the phonics method is being taught in many schools, so hopefully there will be an improvement in the reading ability of pupils. As I see it, another cause of poor readers is the fact that with the popularity of TV children do not read for themselves. Many children haven't read such classics as Black Beauty, Gulliver’s Travels, Prince and the Pauper, Alice in Wonderland and so forth. It is easier to watch a TV program than to exert oneself to read a book. TV has its place and children learn much from it if they watch the right programs, but not for several hours every day to the exclusion of exercise and reading. I discussed the school situation with one of the teachers. She informed me that one of the problems was the lack of interest of the parents. Parents, in many cases, consider that they have no obligation to see that the children are doing well in school or doing their homework or if they have—that they do not have any duty to help the teacher. Instead of taking an interest in the homework, they prefer to watch television. Many children need the encouragement of the parents to do their best work. As a teacher is not allowed to use any physical means of discipline, and pupils know this, the discipline becomes a problem. In olden days we were allowed and expected to give a child a sharp slap with our hand or ruler, if they deserved it. Now a teacher could be sued or brought to court if she did such a thing. Consequently, like the doctor, she needs to carry insurance to protect herself. And very often a child reports an injury was—caused by the teacher when she had no part in it. One example: a boy was angry with his teacher for correcting him. He had some scratches on his arm, which he told his mother was done by the teacher. After a conference by those involved in the principal's office, the boy finally confessed that the cat had scratched him. In olden days many parents told their children, “If you get a whipping at school, you’ll get another at home.” That was going too far the other way, but it was a help to the teacher. Some teachers sent their children out in the backyard  to get a switch off from a bush out there to bring in to whip themselves. They tried real hard to find a real small switch. The subject of English also includes grammar. Most teachers require the reading of books and the writing of book reports, but some neglect the teaching of grammar, which I consider very important. How can a person use good English if they do not know the parts of speech, and the declensions, parsing and diagramming of sentences? This may not be true of all high schools, but ours here have had what I consider too many fancy specialized courses, which take time that should be devoted to something more important. Under the name of Physical Education they take pupils on school buses to bowling alleys, golf courses, roller-skate rinks, swimming pools for exercise. So much time is consumed in going and returning that very little time is left for the activity. Also parents are required to pay for their children's use of the equipment. If a child does not have the money for these things, he gets a failing mark on Physical Ed. Homemaking and Woodworking are two other easy courses which are good in their place, if they do not detract from the basic academic subjects. Girls are required to take the Homemaking, but boys are not. A few years ago a subject called New Math, complete with new textbooks, was introduced in the schools. I have examined the books and have talked with interested people about the subject, but I am not able to intelligently criticize it. I think I understand the underlying principle. It is to give pupils the real meaning of a number. Five is not just a symbol, but means five articles, and “five times five equals twenty-five” is not just an equation, but means five groups with five articles in each group. In other words, to understand what numbers stand for, some of the methods to prove it are time-consuming. So after demonstrating the real meaning of a number, I think tables should be memorized. Ah—now some teachers are combining the old methods with the new. I understand that the New Math carries over into Algebra and Geometry and perhaps makes the three subjects— I well remember the first automobile I saw. One of the progressive farmers, Eugene Chamberlain, bought it. It looked much like a farm wagon on wheels. It was very high up—it even had a whip-socket. The wheels were hard—no rubber tires—and it traveled rather slowly. My sister and I ran along beside it and had no trouble keeping up with it. It was several years before my father felt that he could afford a car, which was then a Ford. As he has always driven horses, so when he tried to drive the car, he was looking both sides of him to see what was going on along the roadside and when he wanted to stop he said, “Whoa, whoa back," just as if he was talking to the horses. Marge: And then he went in the river! [laughter]. All right, go ahead. Florence: Only one home in our town had a bathroom. It was very different from today's bath. The tub was zinc in a case like a coffin. Water to flush the toilet was in a wooden box near the ceiling with a chain extending from it, which was pulled to release the water. The lavatory was of real marble. The rest of us had to visit a little building at the rear of our houses. These contained three holes, one smaller than the others for small children. Instead of toilet paper, which had not been made yet, we used Sears-Roebuck catalogs. That made a trip interesting, as there was always something to look at in the catalog. In summer quite often we had the company of bees and in winter our stay was short because of the cold. Father’s farm lantern made a cheery light if necessary to make an evening call. These little buildings were called backhouses or privies. Now on Hallowe’en it often happened that the backhouse was overturned by celebrators. Husking bees was another chance for neighbors to get together for a social evening. Corn had to be husked so it could be fed to the chickens. On a warm evening young and old gathered at one of the neighbors' barns, and as they visited and told stories they husked the corn. If a man found a red ear he could kiss any girl he pleased. Usually the hostess served some refreshments, perhaps homemade doughnuts and cider. As I said before the husks were dried and used to fill the bed-ticks. After the corn was husked, it had to be shelled and the corn cobs made wonderful kindling to start the fires in the kitchen stoves. So nothing was wasted. Bands of gypsies traveled around the country in summer and I remember once when they came to our town. In those days they had covered wagons, gaily colored and drawn by fine-looking horses. Now they travel with cars. They stopped and set up camp on a river flat where there were no houses nearby, but the neighbors were alarmed, fearing what they might do. So the man who owned the property was asked to have them moved on. They unharnessed the horses, started a fire to cook a meal, and several women in gay dresses, lots of beads and long braids, with very dark skins, ah—came knocking at doors asking to tell our fortunes. If they did not move that—as they did not move that night, everyone locked doors and shut up the chicken coops, as they had a reputation of stealing anything they could find. They left the next day. Gypsies originally wandered around—were wandering tribes in Europe, but now they have come to this country and there are quite a few tribes of them around. Dad had a sleigh with a long box. Once he took our school for a sleigh ride. We had a string of bells on the horses. He covered the floor with a—of the sleigh with straw to sit on. Some of the boys got out and threw snowballs at the ones in the sleigh. Riding downhill on our sleds was great fun, and also skating. Skates in those days were fastened on by straps around the toes and ankles. They did not stay on very well. Later we had skates fastened to our shoe—our shoe soles, but most people couldn't afford them. Skating was my favorite sport. When the young couples had sleigh—sleigh rides they usually went to a hall for an oyster stew supper and then square-danced and played such games—kissing games. Those days are gone forever, for even if there were any horses and sleighs, the snowplows have cleared the roads of snow. Of all the seasons, perhaps winter was the one most enjoyed by the young people. The first snowflakes were hailed with delight. It meant sliding downhill, skating on the ponds, sleigh rides, parties, and best of all—Christmas. Preparations for Christmas were made well in advance as there was little money to spend and even if people were able to go to the stores there was not much—so much—in—ah—many inviting things to buy as there are today. At school, with the teacher's help and suggestions, pupils made gifts for their parents such as pot-holders, needle books, pen-wipers and so forth. Also soon after December first the school began preparation for a Christmas program to be given on the Friday before Christmas when school was out for vacation. First they began practicing Christmas carols and songs of which “Jingle Bells” was perhaps the favorite. The teacher was busy hunting up Christmas poems and plays as every one must have a part, either to speak a piece or sing. Then for busy work on cold stormy days, colored paper was cut in strips and pasted together to make paper chains for decorations. Stars were pasted on the windows and snow scenes were drawn on the blackboards. On the last day of school, everyone cleaned his desk to be ready for the guests to arrive. The mothers came to hear the program. Small gifts, mostly from the ten-cent store, were exchanged. Teachers received handkerchiefs, writing paper and pretty—maybe a pretty dish or some homemade article or candy. She gave each child a gift—perhaps something they could use in school, like a box of colored crayons or a pad. Everyone went home happy and the teacher was relieved that it was over. Christmas is celebrated today in the schools, but in a very different way. One thing is— [TAPE 2] Marge: On. The main thing that's lacking—in the schools. Florence: The meaning of Christmas or any religious reference, is forbidden by law. If children do not go to Sunday School, many of them never know what Christmas is all about. Our town had one church, the Methodist, and there was always a Christmas tree and program—some evening just before Christmas. The Sunday School teachers were responsible for preparing the program, so the children were assigned parts and met after school and on Saturday to practice. Parents brought presents for their children so that, so when Santa arrived he could call each child's name. The tree had no electric lights, but was decorated with the packages which the parents had brought and strings of popcorn and cranberries. Santa always presented each child with a bag containing an orange and some ribbon candy. Oranges were quite a treat as we seldom had any in winter. The best part of Christmas was that spent at home or with our families. I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, but my sister and I hung our stockings and always found something in them in the morning. Dad went up on our hill where there were many trees and brought us a lovely hemlock which we decorated with paper chains, popcorn and hung all small packages on the branches. Some people used candles, but Mother thought they were too dangerous. As we had two families of relatives, aunts and uncles and children living nearby, we all got together at one of the houses for a big Christmas dinner. After the dinner, gifts were distributed. Gifts in those days were different than today. They didn't cost so much and they were a surprise. Nowadays everyone tells what he or she wants and expects to get, even if it is too expensive. I liked the old gifts much better. One Christmas I received a Bible and on another a gold ring. Mother always made us doll clothes for our dolls, and they were beautifully made of scraps of material and lace left from her sewing. Marge: One thing that Mom didn't bother writing about that—or talk about the church is that—oh—the church was a very important part of our lives. Oh—you didn't just graduate from one department to the next just 'cause you got that age. Ah—my group, when I was comin' up through, we had to go to Viola Noye's and we had to learn the Beatitudes and the books of the Bible and a lot of other memory work and then we had to go during the eleven o'clock service and recite all this in order to get promoted to the next department. And a—I think this is something that children nowadays aren't expected to do in school or Sunday School and that is to do memory work. And that—is a real shame because it doesn't prepare their mind to remember things. Florence: When I was a child, a lady by the name of Ada Hall had all the young people come to the church, on Sunday afternoon, where she taught us many, many facts about the Bible and we memorized many things in the Bible. These things have always stood by me and been a great help to me in teaching Sunday School class, which I have done for many, many years. I have tried to recall how our life many years ago differed from our life today. It was a good life and had some advantages over life today. I shouldn't have repeated there. People tried to live within their means. They rarely bought things they did not have the money to pay for. There was not so much worry about debts as there is today. Installment buying was unheard of. Old people were cared for in their ho—children's homes. There were no nursing homes. Very poor people had to go to the poorhouse, which was supported by taxes. Neighbors were more neighborly. If anyone was sick they did not go to the hospital, but were cared for in the home. Doctors made house calls. There is no comparison in the cost of living today and that of eighty years ago, and although wages are much higher today, expenses have increased proportionately. Of course people today buy things that in olden days would not be considered, even if they were available. Luxuries have become necessities. I have criticized the schools and some phases of education, but school buildings of today are beautiful, teachers are well-educated, much money is spent on the educational system. Children are required to attend school. Much of the material used is furnished, so, on the whole, I think we can be proud of our school systems. One thing I didn't mention about schools was the writing. As far as I know most teachers do not have any formal penmanship classes. Some children write well, but many do not. Our teachers were obliged to take lessons with Palmer Method writing and have regular penmanship classes in school every day. Palmer Method involves using the muscles of the arm while holding the pen or pencil with the fingers, instead of using the fingers to guide the pencil. On my father's farm is a peat bog which I believe is the only one in Broome County. Peat represents the first stage in the development of coal, from vegetable matter under pressure. It consists of a brown substance, fibrous and woody, saturated with moisture and can be cut easily. My father cut it out in square blocks, dried them on a rack and ground them up. He then sold the peat for horse bedding. In those days there were many horses in Binghamton and peat moss made a desirable bedding material. Today people buy it as a mulch around shrubbery. Where the peat had been cut out, a little pond formed where we used to skate in the winter. Occasionally the peat area would accidentally get on fire. It burned with an acrid smoke that was very annoying to everybody living nearby. It burned very deep and we had no way of quenching the fire. Finally it burned itself out. Women's apparel has changed greatly. Just imagine a well-dressed woman walking to church on Sunday morning. She has on a hat or bonnet and shawl or cape for a wrap, a long dress, high-bottomed shoes and black cotton stockings. Her hands were covered with hand-knitted mittens or gloves. Little girls were a small edition of their mothers. Mother's hair was long and twisted in a knot on her head, while the child's was in braids down her back—no bobs or short hair in those days. There are many other things I could tell you about the good old days, but I think I've done pretty well to remember as much as I have, so I think we'll call this finished. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Florence Parsons Isenburg Subject The topic of the resource Isenburg, Florence Parsons -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms; Teachers -- Interviews; Cortland (N.Y.) Normal School Description An account of the resource Florence Parsons Isenburg talks about her family farm in Chenango Bridge, NY and the crops they raised, social activities, and her upbringing. She describes how things were done on the farm, including tasks and chores, methods of cleaning, cooking, and farming and what the neighborhood was like. She discusses how farming changed with the advents of installed water systems, bathrooms from outhouses, mail delivery, the first telephone, and electric service. She describes her education and notes that she attended the Cortland Normal School. She discusses her first teaching positions, how the local school system changed while she was there. She details how methods of teaching changed over the years, as well as, how lifestyle changed over time. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recordings 34A; Recording 34B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Isenburg, Florence Parsons ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 49:06 Minutes ; 10:58 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0c8848de3376827a12c5948050203bf2.mp3 c84fbc024164e2c82a6da5440831ec12 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5bf812daa036adaec7594d4ea4c8ba5b.mp3 dfe6b0cabc4d858f37c0bad08841c7fd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kuryla, Frances Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-01-13 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:42 Minutes ; 00:24 Seconds Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56074">Interview with Frances Kuryla</a> Subject LCSH Kuryla, Frances -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Frances Kuryla Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 13 January 1978 [This interview concerns Mrs Kuryla's father, Michele Gallo, and her Uncle, Nichola Gallo, hereafter referred to as Uncle Nick. The third voice in the interview on tape is Barbara Gallo, Mrs Kuryla’s sister.] Dan: Frances, will you relate to me the immigration of your father and your uncle to this country and their life and experiences in the community, and start right there in Italy where they were born? Frances: Well, they were born in a little town, Padula, in Salerno and my uncle, as an elderly brother, came to America first at the age of seventeen, ah. Dan: That was your Uncle Nick? Frances: My Uncle Nick. Dan: OK. Frances: And ah, the reason I suppose they did come was their trade, that they thought they would have more of an opportunity to practice their trade, which was stonecutters, and ah, my uncle came in 18— Dan: —87. Frances: 1887, and he settled, well, he settled in, ah, Glen Falls. I think it is very difficult— Dan: When did he come to Binghamton? Frances: Well, he came to Binghamton in 1897 on a job on the Courthouse. He was employed by Carlucci of Scranton, and he was foreman on this work on the Courthouse. In the meantime he met a young woman, widow woman, who had a business on Chenango Street in the Moon block, and they married and they started this business from then on. Dan: Now, what business did they start, Frances? Frances: Candy, candy business. Dan: Canning? Frances: Candy store. Dan: Oh, candy store, OK. Frances: And then he decided that, ah, to go into a bigger business—he opened up a wholesale grocery and, ah, then on he, ah, chartered his own private bank—the first Italian bank in the area and, ah— Dan: Where was that located? Frances: That was on 138 Henry Street. Dan: 138 Henry Street. Frances: And what I can remember of it, and it was there until 1926 when they liquidated it. Dan: And when did you say he started? Frances: In 1912 it was chartered, in 1914 actually licensed, and ah, I said he had a wholesale grocery, and he also was involved with the steamship agency and money exchange—that was all involved in his business. Then as far as my uncle, as I said, he kept that until he retired in 1926—he gave it all up and he retired to Italy, returned to Italy. He stayed there for a year and then came back to this country. He retired and he was fifty years old when he retired. Dan: When did he come back? Frances: In 1927. Dan: Well, he only stayed in Italy two years, then, and then he came back here and retired. Frances: He lived at 119 Henry Street. Dan: So until, 1897 to 1926, let’s see, that’s only thirty years he retired. Frances: Yeah—he was fifty years old. Dan: Now you say that he worked on the Courthouse as a foreman? Frances: Now I understand that he was a foreman, now, this was his trade. Whether he actually did the work there, I don't know. Dan: Now what building do you know that he worked on? Frances: Supposedly the Courthouse. Dan: Another building? Frances: No, what all I remember that my father and my other uncle worked on other buildings in the area. Dan: Oh, I see, OK. Frances: Then my father came in the 1900—he followed his brother here, and I, he, guess he landed in New York and stayed there a while with the family. Then also worked through Carlucci—they had this job to build the Press Building and my father came here as an employee of Carlucci contractors as a stonecutter. He did all the artwork on the doorway, the archway. Dan: On the— Frances: Of the Press Building—it took him months to do that. He also told me about the lion heads—there were six of them up on the top and he also told me that each lion had a tooth as long as your arm. I can remember these little things that he told me and how they had to make their own scaffolds—there was no rig, this carving, they also had to do their own scaffolding, you know, and I remember him telling me also, back in those days, in 1904, at that time as a stonecutter, he was making $7.00 a day, which was a big thing back then. Dan: It was good money in those days. Frances: In those days. Dan: Right. Frances: This is what he used to tell me about it. Then Dad, I guess he got what they call, almost like a miner's, you know, a spot on the lung. Dan: Yeah, yeah, a lung disease. Frances: Yes, so he had to give it up and he went back to Italy in 1909 or 1910—he went back to Italy, supposedly to get the cure or whatever it was. So when my Dad came back to America, which must have been about 1910—he was only there for about a year in 1910 and, ah, he gave it up and he went into business with my Uncle Angelo Sessani, they had, like a hotel. Then he met my mother and they decided that he would pull out of that and they got married, in 1915 he married my mother, and they opened up their own store on Fayette Street in the Serafini building. Then in 1921 my dad moved his little store to the building at 9 Fayette Street, you know, where they are now—where Mike was born in 1921. Then he went into the wholesale grocery business and dealt with all the Italian import business—he used to distribute to, like the Arlington and all that. Then when my Uncle retired in 1926, my dad took over the steamship agency and the money exchange—he expanded his business to that, and then Dad retired when—80 years old. Dan: Until he was 80. Frances: Yeah, he died in 1971. Dan: Ah, did this bank, now, that your uncle established—-what was the reason for establishing that? Now, this was an Italian bank, right? Frances: Yeah, it was a State of New York, but it dealt with the immigrants to be able to help them to speak English. They couldn't speak, you know. Dan: And then, also—what was the steamship end of it? Frances: Like the Broome County Travel. Dan: Just like the Broome County Travel Agency. Frances: Yeah, it was a travel agency by boat—there was no air. Dan: That was started in what year? Frances: I suppose along that time, too—I mean, I can't pin it down. Dan: He got out of that in 1926 and it just closed. Frances: He got out of that in 1926 and it just closed, the City Bank, the City Bank, what do you call it where they came in and checked up? And they closed up—you know, that’s when they liquidated his bank. Dan: Yeah—now, when he established the bank, I mean, did he have to have so much assets? Do you know how much assets there were? Frances: I don't know how much there were. Dan: You know, I checked some directories dating back to 1880, 1890, over at Roberson Library, and they had quite a few banks listed and they boasted of capitals of $100,000. Which is—that was a lot of money, you know. Of course, today it’s peanuts. Frances: Well my cousin Annie, Annie Sassani, I was talking to her yesterday—of course she worked for my uncle, you know, until they liquidated his bank—and she said that very day, that last day when the investigators or whatever came in, they checked it all out or whatever it was, and it came right to the penny—everything—you know, the license was removed as part of it. It had to be licensed. Dan: Do you know what was the reason why it closed? Frances: Because he retired. Dan: Oh, just retired. Frances: He didn't need to anymore—there was no other reason, he just retired. And then my cousin, she was over there, he took his daughter over there and she married over there. Dan: And then he came back here. Frances: And then he came back here. Dan: And then he was just in retirement after he came back here. Frances: Yeah. Dan: But your dad carried on the wholesale grocery. Frances: My dad—he did not start my father in the wholesale business, he had nothing to do with it. My dad only took from my uncle was the steamship agency and the money exchange, but as far as the business, the wholesale, that was my father’s establishment, not my uncle’s, see what I mean? Dan: What was your father's? The steamship was your father’s. Frances: The grocery store was my father’s. Dan: The grocery store was your father's. Frances: Yes, but when my uncle closed up all his business, my father took over his steamship agency and money exchange. The bank was not transferable—that was licensed. Uncle Nick had a grocery. Dan: But you say the money exchange—this was for—? Frances: Foreign exchange money orders, people who would send money over here. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Frances: Well, that’s about it, of course they were property owners, no doubt about that.  Dan: Yeah, yeah, but your dad, outside of his affiliation with the bank there, was primarily in the grocery business, right? Frances: Forty-some years. Dan: You say he worked on the Kilmer Building? Frances: The Press Building my father worked on. Dan: The Press Building. Frances: Of course there was a Kilmer building, too, but they, ah, they used to say the one up near the Arlington was actually the Kilmer building. They called that the Kilmer building—the Landers. Dan: The Landers, yeah. Frances: But the Press Building was actually a Kilmer building, he owned it and Dad actually worked on it, I know that for a fact. In fact to look is like, well, it will be there forever. I hate the thought of ever tearing it down. Dan: In essence, though, Frances, the reason that your uncle came to Broome County was because the contractor down in Scranton had the job for him here, and ah, your dad—having the same trade, he came over too. Frances: Yeah, you see, they were apprentices—my dad was, in Italy—to the trade. They actually came up from Pennsylvania, but when my dad landed in New York, he had a sister living in New York and he stayed with her for a while. Then he went to Scranton. Dan: So he did have relatives in the States already. Francis: Oh yeah, in New York—evidently they came before Dad, but Dad was younger. Eventually all the family resided in Binghamton. Dan: Yeah, and how about the language barrier? How did they overcome that? Frances: My uncle spoke fluently, English fluently. Dad still, he was, of course he was hard of hearing, so what—ah, when he first came, whatever he learned in the beginning, that sort of stood with him, so he still had the accent, but Dad read. Dan: Did he have to attend any schools here at all? Frances: No, but they were educated in Europe—they both had, like a high school education. Uncle Nick was more with the English speaking than Dad was—like, like he was a great friend of Harvey Hinman, the man who used to be the Chancellor of the State of New York, and Senator Clark. I've got pictures of my uncle with Senator Clark—they used to be buddy-buddies with Senator Clark in my day. You know the ones who had Senator Clark over on the old Vestal Highway, that had the farm there—well, ah, I have pictures of my uncle—he mingled more with the political element. He did quite a bit, like during the election time—took the Italian people to go out and vote—like a leader, like you know. People depended on him a lot for help in translations and stuff. He was like my mother. My mother did a lot of that—of course Mother was American-born. She was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, but Mother did a lot of, for instance, my dad's trade or my dad's business. Dad didn't come in contact with the others in his earlier days, he dealt more with the immigrants. Like when they came, showing them the way to get around and handling a lot of stuff. Now my mother would do a lot of interpreting for these people who couldn't speak English, although she was American-born but she spoke fluent Italian. So this is what, their contribution toward, you know, the Italian community—helping the immigrant when they came, you know. They didn't know which way to turn and the store was there and they, it was like home to them—it was that area where the Italians all sort of settled. Dan: Right—that was down— Frances: —on Fayette Street. Dan: Fayette Street. Frances: I don't know whether my dad's store was actually the first store. I'm not sure. Dan: Now, in that neighborhood, of course you had not only Italians’ nationalities, but you had Irish and you had Jewish. Frances: Yeah, Irish, Jewish, and Italians, and that’s it. Dan: In that particular area. Frances: And there wasn't nothing else but that particular area where Dad’s store was, was of Italian extraction, almost everybody there. The only Italian church was there, most functions were right around, so—as I said, as far as my dad, Uncle Nick was more political, more social than my dad. My dad was more of the business element of Italian people, so he therefore spoke English, but it was broken, you know—he could write. Dan: But of course the clientele he dealt with, I mean, probably couldn't speak anything but Italian. Frances: Right. Dan: And of course your mother was an interpreter. Frances: Yeah, many of the new citizens. Dan: And you say what year your Dad retired? How many years was he in business down there? Frances: Ah— Dan: Just approximately. Frances: Wait a minute, when did Kennedy get shot? Dan: About fifteen years ago. Frances: That’s when Dad retired, so Dad would be 90, ah, he died in 1971. About 1966, he closed because he got sick. Dan: 1966. Frances: I think that’s when he quit. He opened his business in 1915. Dan: Now this bank that your uncle established, ah, that was the only Italian bank—there hasn't been one since, has there? Frances: I think there was, ah, I'm not quite sure. [To Barbara, her sister] Was Mr. Buono—? [Back to Dan] I don't think there was, actually. It might not have been licensed, actually, I couldn't say—Mr. Buono had something to do with savings or something like that, but Uncle Nick was actually a licensed, a private bank, you know, like First City. From 1912 to 1926. Dan: But he was a very, very astute businessman. Must have been—you figure coming here in 1887, coming to Broome County in 1897, and going back to Italy in 1926 is only about 30 years and he's made, he's made his fortune. Frances: He owned some property like my dad did, and buildings like that and investments, whatever they were. Like I say, he always said when he was 52 he was going to retire, and he did—actually, he was 50. Dan: He was 50 years old when he retired. Frances: And he lived to be what, about 82. Dan: No Social Security in those days, either. Frances: No, they did it all on their own. If they had anything, they worked hard for it and they saved for it. Dan: Yeah they must have, working at $7.00 a week—a day, rather, $7.00 a day. Frances: That was high pay, because I can remember my mother saying that she worked for $7.00 a week and my dad was getting $7.00 a day.  Dan: $7.00 a day, so you figure that times five, that was pretty good money. Because EJ, I mean, they were $4.00. $3.50 or $4.00 a day or something like that. Frances: In those days. Dan: Well, that was back in the early part, well, you know in about 1935, something like that, ‘36, they were getting about $35.00 a week—that would be about $7.00 a day. Frances: Mother said that she worked in a cigar factory for $7.00 a week. Dan: Your mother did. Frances: When she came from Pennsylvania. Dan: Oh yeah, what factory did she work in? Frances: It was down there near the old EJ factory there in Johnson City. Wasn't there one in Binghamton—a cigar factory? Dan: This was at one time the cigar factory of the world. Frances: Yeah, almost everybody worked there—she said they came up from Pennsylvania. They took the train down to Lestershire, they used to call it. Dan: Yeah, that was the forerunner of Johnson City. Frances: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of little details, like right now I could say—your mind is gone. We had one session before you started this and I went blank, really. Dan: Now, this paper that Barbara has here goes into detail. Frances: More in detail about my uncle. Dan: Your uncle, how he was knighted, etc. If I could take or borrow that, Barbara, and have it Xeroxed and return it to you and that would be sort of a memorabilia that would go along with this transcription—? Frances: Actually, my uncle was the head of the Italian community at that time. I mean like everybody has one person and he sort of was the overseer of a lot of Italian doings, like the Church—the beginning of St. Mary’s Church—my uncle was involved. Dan: Was he one of the founders of the Church? Frances: In fact, there was a lot to it that we don't go into details—the facts are, he was a trustee for a long, long time but he, ah, I think he had a lot to do with, actually, of the building of St. Mary’s Church and money raising, fundraising at that time, and being a man like you say, position, he had a lot of influence and social work like fundraising during World War I. See, Dan, I have this thing. This is, my mother had it all these years, ah, it was in the Binghamton Press. I kept it—I like to put it in a frame so it don't— Dan: Oh, it’s your uncle. You might get that laminated, Frances. Frances: I don't know the date that’s on it—19—what is it? Dan: 1923. Frances: He was knighted in ’22. Socially and politically, he was a very well-known man and I think he did great service. Dan: But your dad, you know, worked on the Courthouse. Frances: I know he worked on the Press Building, not sure of the Courthouse. Dan: But your uncle— Frances: Our uncle worked on the Courthouse. Dan: You don't know where, I mean. Frances: He was a foreman—he had men under him. Dan: He had men under him when it was built. Frances: Whether he actually worked on it, I don't know—whether that thing says anything. No, he was a foreman, now, whether he did actual, as he was engaged as a stonecutter on that building until its completion. Dan: Well then he did—probably a working foreman. Frances: Yeah, that’s probably what they had, more like, today you’re a foreman you don't do the—but I also remember my uncle saying that he worked on a house on Riverside Drive—supposedly over a doorway, and you know, to this day, I think I know the house but I never ventured up to look and see what kind of work is on that front door. Dan: You know there is a house on Riverside Drive that’s made out of stone, completely out of stone, and that was the Pratt mansion. Frances: Is it the lower part of Riverside Drive towards the bridge? Dan: Right, right, right. It’s on the right hand side as you're going toward Johnson City and it’s on the right. Frances: That might be it. He said he worked on, over the doorway of one of those houses and I never took the time. Dan: That’s the only one there to my recollection, the only one there that’s all stone. Frances: Does it have a porch on the right hand side? Dan: On the right hand side I think there is a porch and there’s a breezeway on kind of, you know, on the left hand side. Frances: I'll bet my dad—that seems to be the one, but he never showed me, he told me, so I can't really say that’s the one. Dan: That’s your dad? Frances: No, that’s my uncle. Dan: Your uncle, your uncle did more of the stonemasonry than your dad did, didn't he? Frances: No, I wouldn't say that. My dad was more of a tradesman. Dan: I thought he was more in the grocery business. Frances: No, no, my dad was more so, as I say, just working on that particular building, on the Kilmer, on the Press Building, was really the big thing because that took a number of years, 1904 to 1910—before 1904. Like he told me four months over the archway. No, I think my uncle was more of a businessman, rather, that was a trade and most of these, my father and his two brothers—that was a way of life in the area that they came from—it was something the whole people in that community, that they were all stonecutters—they were some of the best in southern Italy. Dan: Now this is the homestead of your dad? Original homestead? Frances: Well, we've been here for fifty-some years. You mean on Court Street? No, we used to live on Fayette Street. Dan: Oh, did you? Frances: Sure, when I went to St. Mary’s School, where did I go? Dan: I don't remember. Frances: Don't you remember the box of macaroni I used to have to bring to the main altar? Mother and Dad used to reside on Henry Street. The greatest part of our life was on Fayette Street and here. We've been here since 1928. So I would say that a good length of time. But Dad went into the grocery business, I guess, I mean his own grocery business, when he married Mother in 1915. Dan: 1915. Frances: And he built, saved his money and built that building in 1916 when we went into 9 Fayette Street, and that’s when really his business started to, you know, he went into big scale. Dan: In wholesale he probably sold to a lot of stores around. Frances: He sold Arlington, and he supplied a lot of restaurants around here with Italians and the Arlington. You see, Dad also had his own name brand—the Gallo Brand Macaroni, the Gallo Brand Olive Oil, tomatoes. So they used to come in big trucks and deliver macaroni like they do now and Dad used to go, like the Arlington Hotel—he used to be the salesman and my mother would take care of the store. Community Coffee Shop used to buy from him—remember that? Dan: Sure. Frances: But way back even, like I say, I don't know whether the Mohican, but oh, yes, I remember delivering, ah, one of my boyfriends at that time, we delivered some macaroni to the Mohican. They bought my dad's name brand, Gallo brand. Dan: So what did he have, a jobber that processed this stuff for him? Frances: He had his own seal on it—the rooster, which, that was the symbol. “Gallo” means a rooster. Dan: I see. Frances: So the sticker on it would show the rooster, a Gallo name brand, but Dad had his own wholesale. He was a good salesman and then, as I say, he always felt, he said he never wanted to work for anyone—he wanted to be an independent person and that’s what he did. After, you know, after years of wholesaling, of course his health didn't permit him to go on—he had that miner's lung, but that was his trade in Europe. They must have thought that Binghamton was the place for opportunity, because they remained here and all their ancestors came here. Dan: Well, that’s fine. Frances: I don't know how much we helped you on this. Dan: Well, you helped a lot and as you say— Frances: Well, I think my dad, more than my uncle, my dad's life was limited, I mean he was a businessman—he dealt in real estate. Dad had quite a bit of real estate. Dan: Yeah, but the fact that he did have the wholesale part of the grocery trade and sold the different places which we are all familiar with. Frances: Oh, they knew, my dad had, I have people in Endicott today, many with grocery stores, and they said, “Oh, I remember your dad, we used to buy from him,” because he had all the imports, see, like Italian cheese and that smelly dried-up—remember? You don't remember, I went to school smelling like crazy—but you know, that dried cod fish, you know, things like that, it was all import stuff and you couldn't get it anyplace else except from my father in those days. Now, maybe there was a man on Susquehanna Street. Milasi, now that was another businessman, really, but what they contributed, I don't know. Dan: Yeah, but he came after your dad, ah, long after—your dad was probably the pioneer. Frances: I guess they were, there were a few of them—you know, Danny, another thing, my Uncle Jerry Lombardi—when you think about it, he was even before my father, but God bless his soul, he's dead now but you know Susquehanna Street where they used to have the dog pound? They used to have a hotel there and they had a grocery store way back in those times. Mary must be seventy now, isn't she, and my uncle had this hotel, like a hotel and a grocery store and all that back in those days. Well, you could combine things—in those days you could do that, you know. But there were quite a few Italian people who contributed, you know, in the early days. I think my uncle was the one as an old-timer, and then there were a lot in the time of my father, you know, who contributed, and I said the only thing that my dad can stand out in my mind was, he was a good businessman but that’s all I can say. Dan: That’s good, I appreciate you taking the time out and coming all the way from Endicott. I hope the weather is good going back. Frances: Danny. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Frances Kuryla Subject The topic of the resource Kuryla, Frances -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade Description An account of the resource Frances Kuryla relates the immigration of her father, Michael Gallo and her uncle Nichola Gallo from Italy. Kuryla's father and uncle believed that they would have a better opportunity to practice their trade as stonecutter, in the United States. Nichola Gallo arrived in 1887 and started as a stone cutter. He left this profession to charter the first Italian bank and was involved in assisting immigrants with his steamship travel agency and money exchange program. On his retirement he closed the bank. Kuryla's father immigrated later (1900) and also worked as a stonecutter. He then opened a wholesale grocery business and had his own line of food under the Gallo label. He later took over the steamship agency and money exchange program from his brother, Nichola. The two brothers often assisted Italian immigrants with financial and personal issues. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 69A ; Recording 69B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kuryla, Frances ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-13 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:42 Minutes ; 00:24 Seconds https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2e518e208d685ab02bf32ae0ed51a5a6.mp3 4ee989a8bf59c3494103a5622d242387 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tedeschi, Frank J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-01-31 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:52 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56036">Interview with Frank J. Tedeschi</a> Subject LCSH Tedeschi, Frank J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Grocers -- Interviews; Italians; Politics Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Frank J. Tedeschi Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 31 January 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Frank J. Tedeschi of 327 Hill Ave., Endicott, NY on Jan. 31, 1978. Well, Frank, will you start with some of the recollections when your mother and dad came from Italy and reasons for coming for coming here? Frank: Ok, my dad, Joseph, came from Albrobello which is the province of body Italy back in 1908—back to New York City, of course, and went to a small community called West Winfield, near Utica, New York. And there upon hearing about the Endicott Johnson factories there, they came to Endicott where he got a job in Endicott Johnson in the early 1900s. Prior to that, he married my mother who had come from Italy about one year after he did and they had their first child in West Winfield near Utica, my sister, Florence. She was approximately year old when they moved to Endicott. After being in EJ for number of years they opened up their first business on front of Oak Hill Ave. and at that time was called Green St. which is now known as Watson Blvd in 1907 er—1917. From there they moved to Odell Ave, 215 Odell Ave., had a store there and then they bought the property where it stands now—corner of Odell Ave. and Watson Blvd. 101 Odell Ave, that was back in 1919, has been there ever since. My dad had his trial and tribulations same as any immigrant at that time—not knowing the language—and few miss and miss—some of them stories being kind of in the rough—awful time can't get started in this country. The family grew, they grew with the business, of course. In 1946 he retired. At that time I took over with my sister, Florence as a partner. He was a partner, also, but he was an inactive partner, he is what you call today a silent partner in the business. Now I can stop there—you want something else— Nettie: Now, tell us what you said about trial and tribulations—some of trials he had when he first came to Endicott Johnson, here in Endicott. Frank: Of course, not knowing the language they were picked on by some of the colleagues called the big Irish people at that time. They picked on the Italians, Poles, Russians, Slavs and they used them as a kicking stick, you might say, for doing all the dirty jobs and got credit for them. He had three or four different jobs and finally decided he'd go into business for himself. One particular instance, he said he was going to bite one of the fellow's nose off, because he bugged him so much, he wasn't going to get violent to the degree where he was going to hurt him physically just to bite his nose. One particular instance. Just that time were many instances but I can't remember all of them, of course, it's hard to say. Meanwhile, he started a business, kind of hard for him he didn't know the language very sparingly at that time. Most of the people on the North Side were either from the Italian extraction, Slavish [Slavic], Polish or Greek. He got so he could speak a little of each language he picked up as he went along—having got by. He raised a family of ten kids—5 boys and 5 girls. I'm the oldest of the boys and the other brother of mine is in business also, in Vestal Center, my brother Marty. The time he retired he wasn't feeling too well, that's the reason why he got out of the business. He liked the business, he enjoyed meeting the people, talking to the people. And it's a pity that sometimes people don't appreciate what you do for them especially when they're in business because many many people took advantage of them. The details, of course, are too long and complicated to go into now, something like that. [to wife] —want to talk? (laughing). Nettie: You are doing well— Frank: Now since my sister and I took over the business in 1946, of course, the old time type of business we changed to a degree because my dad opened the store 7 o'clock every morning—closed at 9 o'clock at night—closed Friday night at midnight—closed Saturday at midnight—Sunday up to 1 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon. When we took over we closed early—we closed Sundays and holidays. We don't have that type of business. We feel it's not worthwhile sacrificing life. They had the business, they enjoyed it they worked, they enjoyed taking care of the people they knew as friends. Now our type of business today is also different what it was years ago, where it was strictly Italian, of course, now we take care of to specialities—to groups of people like Greek, Armenian, Lebanese, all types of people, Chinese, Italian, English— Nettie: Frank, can I interrupt right now? I know that's the thing I found interesting when I was in your store—I noticed you had so many different things in your store—I looked all over for a special kind of wheat and I found it in your store? What other things do you have in your store that the Armenians, Greek—specialty kind of things? Frank: The kind of wheat, I believe you wanted, was cracked wheat—called bulgur—OK—then we have buckwheat groats, also which for the Russian, Polish people, Slavic people, which not many people handling it in the area. Some of the other items that the Lebanese use is—mixture called—falafel which is a mixture of ground fava beans and spices—then there's the—tahini which is ground sesame oil and then there's the Greek shortening—called minerva—funny name for it—Greek shortening—came from Greece—special wild onions called—volvoí packed in oil and vinegar is Greek. For the Lebanese, also, we have the Lebanese spices called—mahaleb and za’atar—two special spices they’re always looking for. And pine nuts, of course, are the Greek and Italian—of course, they are going international now—pignoli nuts come from Spain. Some of the other foods, of course, are Greek cheeses—and and the Lebanese cheeses—are special cheeses in themselves. The Greek cheese is packed in brine—some of them—Lebanese cheese are a basket cheese—Russian cheese used at Easter time—used to put in their baskets to be blessed—yeah—ok—some of the other items I, of course, imported Italian foods that we have—which hard to find—the St. John bread, we used to call—dried bananas at one time, carobs—we call—real name—are from Portugal—3 or 4 varieties of figs—Turkish figs, Greek figs, California figs—dried form or string form—then we have a variety of many other foods such as dried garbanzo lentils, things like that are dried legumes. Mrs. Tedeschi: Greek pastries too. Frank: Yeah, of course, the Greek pastry—which are the phyllo leaves from the prepared Greek pastry, which is called tiropita, spanakopita. We have the dessert, the sweet stuff, baklava which is very delicious. We also have a variety of Far Eastern breads—leavened breads which is called ma’arouk—then we have sesame bread which is flat leavened bread which is Lebanese and Armenian type of bread—then we have the folded dough—folded dough used for pizzas. These are some of the items we have. We have some others, of course. Nettie: Sounds interesting! I didn’t realize you had that many. Frank: We have all types of imported kind of candy, spumoni, terrone—we have chocolates. We have imported cherries and brandy, butter cakes which are called qatayef—brandy or rum. Nettie: I didn’t realize you had all that. Frank: We also carry a variety of porcelain goods such as demitasse cups and sets (demitasse) and we have large spaghetti bowls of all sizes, have different type vegetable strainers, meat choppers and sausage makers for home use. Nettie: What are some of your recollections of the Italian People? You know, some of the customs—that would be interesting— Frank: As far as the eating habits are concerned? Nettie: Well, eating habits, maybe some of your customs—holidays— Frank: Well your Christmas Eve customs in the Italian line are the fact they have to eat, or not have to—but the custom to eat 21 different types of food. In other words—mostly non-meat items, Christmas Eve. Usually they have 7 or 8 or 9 varieties of fish, cooked different ways, different kinds of vegetables, nuts, cheeses, different kinds of wines, beverages of all kinds, of course, to get loaded—have to have alkaseltzer (Laughing). Of course, the traditional Italian fish which is a dried codfish, baccalà which comes whole, which it comes boneless or skinless which has to be freshened soaked day or two, soaked 3-4 days with the bone in—then there's a Swedish stockfish, also is original Italian dish mostly for people from Calabria—lower Italy—Calabria, town which is on lower end of the boot of Italy, they eat that fish—it is very expensive this time of year—$6.50 a pound—that what they asked for two weeks ago. Nettie: Is it a salty fish? Frank: Very strong aroma—some people call disastrous—has a very distinct odor to it. Those all traditional—people fish—that they eat—want. Also, there are English pilchard, called—aringa—which is a smoked dry sardine which is also a traditional type of fish and the dry smoked herring—(put a jug of wine) after you eat a couple fish which you would be thirsty. Something, like the Russian people have their pickled salt herring - the Italian people have their dry smoked herring called aringa. Of course, the Italian spaghetti sauces, numerous different kinds of spaghetti sauces with the Italian seasonings and cheeses from Italy, called romano pecorino— Nettie: What was that? Frank: Romano pecorino—which mean—made from sheep's milk—pecorino means sheep's milk—pecora means, means “sheep” in Italian. Now the people in northern Italy which are the Piedmonti's people, citizens of northern Italy they use the parmigiano cheese—parmesano—is strictly from cow's milk. They don't like the sharp violent cheese—that cheese is mostly for white sauces and cream sauces—types of spaghetti—made from piselli—for example use butter, use parmesano cheese, but to make piselli fettuccelle use romano cheese. Nettie: Never heard of those—that sounds good—though— Frank: Different types. And of course we have the variety of Italian olives—some consider Italian, some consider Greek, we used to have them in barrels, now they come in plaster tubs, about 30-40 each—they have a flavor of their own, don't compare with the ripe olive different taste to them—there is a Sicilian type, there is a Greek type. Nettie: Is that right? I didn't realize that. Frank: There are varieties of olives—those we specialize in them, also. Now the other strictly Italian food that we find in our place which I don't believe, of course, the English and American people, well I haven't seen the Russian or Slovak person buy, that's cornmeal—used for cornmeal mush, polenta—that's called in Italian. Nettie: I think I had that in Spain. Frank: It is cooked and boiled down in water and you put a sauce over it, with homemade meatballs or homemade sausage—my wife eats the corn and I eat the sausage—but that's also a strictly Italian. In this country they used to make, you know, muffins or fritters, things like that. There's strictly polenta—which is cornmeal mush—made with rich tomato sauce. Others, are of course, you know is pasta and beans and pasta and lenticchie which is lentils, pasta and ceci ceci which is chick peas. Nettie: All kinds of foods, I imagine you are a cook from what you are talking about— Frank: You know, I give lot of women a lot of recipes—I never cooked any in all of my life. Nettie: Is that right? Frank: I know the ingredients are and how to cook them, because I've seen them cook in our house. Alright, what else should we talk about? Mrs. Tedeschi: About hospitality— Nettie: I would say—all these things—all this is interesting. Mrs. Tedeschi: —the way they were. Frank: The way they are—they are—still are—the foreign people, the people coming from Europe, we also are a nationality, are a lot more hospitable—than the people of this country are. Nettie: Yes, yes. Frank: You walk in a Italian home, or Slavic home or a Greek home and if they are eating dinner they will insist you sit down and eat with them, otherwise they would be insulted. If they don't have anything, middle of the afternoon, they will insist on putting on a pot of coffee, take out some cookies or cake or something. Nettie: It's very true. Frank: Those are things we find that the active people, the Italian people, the Slavic, the Polish people are very, very famous for. They are also, very persistent, asking you to sit and join them. Nettie: Yes, very much so. Mrs. Tedeschi: Yes, they are. Frank: You know the traditions we had in the past every once in a while, I think about it. They're forgotten. The younger generation don't know anything about it.  Nettie: That's what I'd like to have— Frank: OK—back years ago, now we’re having Palm Sunday coming and Easter Sunday with Lent, our parish priest, at that time, would go around on Palm Sunday and bless the homes with his holy water—along and his assistant and a altar boy carrying the holy container to bless the homes. That particular priest that we had here, used to stop, how he did it I don't know to this day, stop and eat everyplace he went. He usually would go around, you know, at meal times, you know at about twelve to one o'clock, everybody—sitting at the table—eat something for about five or ten minutes—then they would question him all over again—you could tell by looking at him he enjoyed it. Those are some of the traditions that are gone—we miss—and back, even days before television, before radio, before restaurants, and beer gardens we have today—it used to be more of a family affair— Nettie: It's true. Frank: Families used to get together and enjoy themselves—sit, talk, chat, eat and drink, play cards—that was really happy occasions to play cards when you bring a bottle of wine—the old fellows, us kids used to watch and we were chased off to bed. Nettie: True. Frank: But those are missing now, now everybody has got their own new world, they live in. Now I come home, as tonight, watch television for two or three hours and go to bed. That didn't happen before—before you would talk with the family, I'd visit my sister, my brother would visit me—I'd visit my dad—that type of thing—that's missing today. Nettie: That's too bad, too. Frank: Then the old feast days are gone—the atmosphere is gone like when they celebrate St. Joseph's or St. Anthony's or St. Cosmo’s one of those things, St. Mary's. They'd have their procession down the street. Saints, bands—5 o'clock in the morning they'd wake you up with their fireworks—ups! it's time to get started you know, then they get end up for the affair, they had at night, food, drink and everything else involved. Those are all gone. Those are what everybody misses. As I say, things have changed, the world is changing, the people changing. I like to keep those traditions—I find, right now, though in our area here especially, we've got quite an influx of immigrants that had stopped for a while—there was a period for anyone to come in—they stopped for a while—they had quotas as they were strict to have anyone come in but the last few years they lifted—ooh—we have about 50 families, have come. Nettie: ls that right? Frank: Between the Italians, Slavic and some of the Russians—not too many of them—not too many Russians—guess they're not letting them out. (Laughing) They're keeping them there. But there's quite a few coming in—so traditions will remain as long as these people keep coming in the European tradition—they'll bring them here. I'm glad to see that. Nettie: I do too—I really like to see that. It's nice to be able to enjoy those things. Frank: Well, are there any other recollections—I do remember the parades collecting and all that—it was very interesting—of course, in those days, too, if you remember—you weren’t old enough— Nettie: Gee—thanks— Frank: Back, years ago before refrigeration—remember that? Nettie: Oh, yes, I remember. Frank: Before the 30th—the ice boxes? We had to open up the store—my dad had, in those days, anyhow, at 6 o'clock in the morning—for the factory workers who stopped to buy their lunch meat to put between two slices of bread, so that it didn't spoil during the day. They picked their lunch in the morning—that's right—walk down the street—were no such thing as cars in those days—nobody owned cars—very few people own cars—we'd walk—see all the neighbors, talked to the women—they'd have the coffee klatsches at 6 in the morning—got their washing done at 5—everybody greeted each other, everybody knew everybody else. I don't know my next door neighbors are now. Things are entirely different. Things were a lot calmer in those days. Now anybody screams—WHO CARES! Nettie: That's right. Frank: Before if you heard somebody yelling, you asked, “What is going on here?” So the comradeship is gone like it used to be. Now, this is what made it more interesting—seeing your neighbors—go out back—talk to them—make it interesting—get together—backyard—then you invite other neighbor—then the neighbors came over—I remember holidays—you got out—pay a visit to everybody and then you get home, you are ¾ loaded. (Laughing). Everybody has to give you a drink—all those relations are gone. Nettie: Well, Frank, now we can go into your political life— Frank: Well, my political life started by a fluke—really—I had no intention of ever getting involved in politics until 1956. And then again one of the village board came up with—which I thought very, very asinine idea of making the North Side—one way streets. Part being in business and being the fact we had the Fire Dept. next to the business, and the fact that our streets were narrow, I thought there isn't enough traffic to warrant one way streets. The other solution was to be—widen the streets one at a time—two at a time whenever we could afford it. Then one of the trustees came up to me and told me I was stupid—I didn't know what was going on—they were going to push it—they were going to push the one way streets. So at that time, I was head of a group of North Side Businessmen—there were roughly about 40 involved—40 Businesses. I happen to be President of the group so we went to the board meeting made—enough commotion and fussed—they forgot about the one way streets. But, directly after that, one of the fellows came home and asked me if I wanted to run for trustee—they needed somebody on the board to make a little noise occasionally. I said I was really green in politics, you know what I mean but they said I shouldn't worry about that, “we will take care of you. We'll do things for you." OK—do things.  Nettie: If you can have some help. Frank: Right. Then I appreciated my being in the primaries, something of 60-65 votes. The following year I ran again and I was successful in being elected—I was in for 14 years. Nettie: Is that right? I didn't realize it was that long— Frank: In 1968—I asked my party to run for mayor—ran against astute politician Mr. Caldwell—and I was beaten and then I ran the following year again for trustee and was elected two or three times. After that I decided I had enough politics—during the years—my wife was home alone—she missed her dolly—her husband. (Laughing). So that is enough for politics - 14 years is enough for any person to be a service to the community. Nettie: That's a long time—of course it takes you away from home too—quite a bit. Frank: Yes, home and away from the business, I didn't mind it—it was interesting work and I was instrumental in some of the changes in Endicott—successful ones— Nettie: Like what? Frank: Well, I pioneered originally for the soot control— Nettie: What was that—sud control? Frank: Soot control—air pollution. We were successful in getting that cleaned up. Then the pressures involved in the buying of the airport, the sewage treatment plants and some of the major improvements in the village, village parks—North Side park—swimming pool—those were all under my regime. I'm not satisfied or very happy with my regime—we made some good roads—I think the village is a good place to live. Of course, right now I could find some fault with it—some of the spots not too good—I'm used to that part of it. We've always enjoyed living in the village. In fact, we originally lived next door—next door to the store—when we first got married—my wife and I—like in 1935—we lived on 107—right over top of the EJ shoe store—at that time—we had two bedrooms—after the third child we didn't have enough room so we bought a place in Endwell—home on Hoover Street. We didn't like it up there—we came back down to North Side. After two years we sold it and bought this property right here. We're very happy with the North Side—own type of people—Italian people, Slavic— Nettie: It's right—once you've grown with your own— Frank: It's hard to get away from. Ever since—we will be married 43 years this year. Nettie: Is that right? Oh my goodness— Frank: Yep—five kids—oldest boy will be 40 years old—he's in the Post Office—second boy is out of town in Saratoga, teaching school—third girl—teaching school down here—she's married with 1 ½ kids—other daughter works in Endicott Trust Co.—Binghamton branch—youngest son is in school, yet. Nettie: Gee, you have a fine family! Frank: Yes, five very nice children— Nettie: Years go by fast. Frank: Well, in a couple of years—if you know anybody who wants to buy a good business—we'll sell it to them—I've been in it for most of my life—that's been quite a few years—will retire— Nettie: Looking forward to retire? Frank: Take a trip to Rotebella, maybe and see where our folks came from—where our roots began—OK. Nettie: That sounds interesting—Frank, do you have any more recollections that you would like to add to that? It’s very interesting—am really listening with awe. Frank: Really all I could say. Nettie: Well, this has been very enjoyable—and I want to thank you very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Frank J. Tedeschi Subject The topic of the resource Tedeschi, Frank J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Grocers -- Interviews Description An account of the resource Frank Tedeschi speaks about his upbringing in Endicott, NY and later works as a local grocer, inheriting the business from his father. He describes the various types of exotic and imported foods sold at the grocery. He details traditions and recollections from Italian people, as well as, his political experiences on the Village of Endicott Board of Trustees. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 59