4 10 75 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9671ac1c2c5282310cd827553c8f51a0.mp3 0253d71a205ff05105f5180224e433f2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ondrako, Fred Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-04-19 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:43 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55989">Interview with Fred Ondrako</a> Subject LCSH Ondrako, Fred -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Forest City (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Dunn & McCarthy cigar factory; St. Cyril & Methodius Church Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mr. Fred Ondrako Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 19 April 1978 Susan: Mr. Ondrako, could you start by telling us where you were born, something about your parents, and how you happened to settle here in Broome County? Fred: I was born in Forest City, Pennsylvania May 24, 1905. I went to school in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania schools there. My father worked on a railroad for about two dollars an hour. I mean two dollars a day and they're emigrated from Czechoslovakia. Well I never saw my grandmother or grandfather either. Susan: A lot of us haven’t—so continue. Fred: Well I don't know now where to go to.  Susan: Where did you go to school? Fred: I went to school in Forest City— Susan: —talk up. Fred: I went to school in Forest City to school in Pennsylvania at the No. 1 School. Susan: How many years? Fred: Well I just finished 8th grade then I went to work in a grocery store. I worked in a grocery store while I was attending school and from the grocery store I went a to work in a to help out in a silk mill for a couple hours in the evening and I was old enough to go to work in a in the mines in a breaker in the mines. I worked there for 10¢ an hour. That's about what I had there we a— We moved to Binghamton, NY, at 1920. I started I looked an ad in the paper, I got a job trying to sell some salves—salves and medicine which I worked there one day I couldn't make no sales and a I got a for that sale I made I come—I made that—I made that money I picked up for they sent me out for something to deliver that day when I got through there I quit that day. I got 10¢ for that one pick up there and then a I went—I went to work in a cigar factory on Wall St. in Binghamton, NY. I worked there and had a branch office at a by the theater—that theater over there— Susan: Continue, it's all right. Fred: I can't think of that street. I was transferred to a cigar factory up on upper Clinton St. and from there I got a job in Dunn McCarthy’s and I worked there for fifty-one years and one day and that was hard work. I a put on, I had a clock on me on my belt. There was days I walked 18-19 miles a day. I started out with 25¢ an hour and when I built myself up to 40-45¢ an hour I was the happiest man in the world. That was something that's the tops I thought I was doing good which everyone wanted to get that 45¢ an hour an average. That was something we a had slow times during the Depression and I worked about 2 or 3 days a week there made nine-ten dollars for a week for the two or three days we worked and I—I was married I had one daughter. We had a to get along with $9-10 a day (meant to say week). If it wasn't for a break from my mother-in-law, why I could never make it. Susan: Tell us what you did as a child for fun? Fred: When I was a youngster a boy this was when I was just a kid we used to go for in a—we used to go for strawberries first that was strawberry season we have to go for strawberries that was about a few miles out in the woods there get strawberries and then a blueberry season come in we used to go to get up I was seven years old we used to get up about 5-6 in the morning walk up the blueberry mountain there with our pails and a—a the mountain was pretty well infested with rattlesnakes there. Susan: I was going to say that there was a danger. Fred: There was danger there where a we went to when I'd kneel down and tried to pick some berries up I'd make sure I didn't see no snakes around and after we got through why we had to take a bath and a a take our buckets or pails about 2 ten quart pails—2 ten quart pails and take a street car it used to cost us 5¢ to go about 10 miles to try to sell them. We used to take the berries and leave them in a hotel there we asked them if we could leave them there and a we left them there and we tried to get some sales first before we went to pick and see how many quarts they want why we left them there by time we come back we there was a lot of berries missing—there was quarts of berries missing some people stole them on us we'd come back home again we didn't have enough money. My mother would say where the money was well I said, “a I don't know,” I said, “I come back there wasn't all my berries weren't there someone must have stolen them,” so then I—I got a 5¢ for all that work for going up berry mountains, washed up, take a bath and tried to sell some berries. I come back and then I got 5¢ to go to the Nickolet. About the way my parents were— Then a when we done anything—anything wrong my parents a punish us for that. We didn't get away with anything and my father was the protector. My mother wanted to hit us but my father (chuckle) said, “No don't hit them,” after my father didn't want to so my mother hit us—hit me and she a she pushed him on the side and I really got it. We had to obey just what we were taught. We had to obey that if not we got a licking for it. We didn't get away with nothing them days. Susan: How how about your children how did you raise your children? Fred: And a my children I raised my children up I think pretty good. They obeyed good they listened a to what I told them then a when I gave them an allowance. I knew the allowance I was getting. Some other kid might have been getting a dollar or so over a dollar a week and I was only giving my children only 25¢ a week. Susan: And they worked for it. Fred: They done the work my son done the cleaning of the house when we were working me and my wife were working they a my son cleaned the house there he took care of the house. Susan: What is he doing today? Fred: Oh now today he's got a real job. All he went was through high school and a he got a job in Vail Ballou and a they were all picking on him stuff like that. He didn't like the way they were picking on him because they told him he was too young to have the job he had. He was a printer there that was one of the best jobs you can get in a printing place so he had a man that worked in a Vail Ballou. He was a pretty well off there and he was a big boss there so he asked him to come to Vermont to try to get him up there so he went up there for a few months. He was going up there back and forth trying to get that job. He got that job up there and a he as soon as he come up there he—he a came back to see his wife and his two children. He come back to Binghamton here and he got sick so he had been in the hospital for a few weeks there and he wasn't even working and really you know he didn't do any work in that place where he was supposed to start and they paid his hospital bill without even working over $2,000 hospital bill. Then when he came back there well he started to work and they gave him a good job, a guaranteed job. They signed him up with a contract for a job. He got a really good job out of it. The man that gave him the job up there he was a the Vice President of the company. He was the general manager and he gave my son this a job as a superintendent of the place.  Susan: Why don't we go back a bit and tell us what you can remember about that a Mr. Kilmer’s medicine that we were talking about earlier. The Swamp Root, wasn’t it? Fred: Yeah but I didn't work for him. Susan: No but you knew of it when they were selling it? Fred: Yeah. Susan: Do you recall how much it sold for? Fred: No I don't, think it sold for about 10¢ or 12¢ something like that. It was there I remember I got to that was in the paper advertised. I went there before that was near a someplace—near a Symphony Theater, the place near Symphony Theater— Susan: —Symphony Theater— Fred: —there was— Susan: What other changes do you remember that have happened since you have been living in the community? You've been here a long time. Fred: Oh the changes here. Ah there was nothing I knew there was street cars here. Susan: Were you around when they had that big fire on a—? Fred: That was just before we came here. Susan: Just before you came here. Fred: About 1918 or ’19, we came here in 1920. Susan: Have you enjoyed living here in the Triple Cities? Fred: Oh yeah—yeah and I worked hard. Susan: Fifty one years you said. Fred: Fifty years and one day. Well I saved everything I could to have something.  Susan: Well you have a lovely home to show for it. Fred: I was buying bonds there I started first a buck or two for a week then I went up— Susan: Did you—did the war affect your life in any way? Fred: Oh I signed up for the draft but they didn't call me. Susan: They didn't call you. Fred: They didn't pick my number you see. They didn't pick my number. They didn't call me. —Clears as things oh I had this place changed everything is changed here. There used to be street car tracks. Susan: What about here on Clinton St.? Do you remember when they used to call it Russian Broadway when they had all the lights, those beautiful lights that they had? Fred: Oh they did call it—I think they called it Slovak Blvd. or something like that. Susan: Slovak—I always heard that it was Russian Blvd. Fred: I think they call it Slovak. There is more Slovaks down here I think than Russians. In our church why down in Pennsylvania we started going to church in Pennsylvania. We didn't have our own church. There was a Polish church a Polish church a— Susan: What church do you attend now? Fred: St. Cyril’s. Susan: St. Cyril’s. Fred: I've been an usher for 44 years. Susan: Forty-four years. Fred: Yeah Forty-four years. That's a lot of years 51 and now 44 years as an usher I quit, every week every Sunday for 44 years. Susan: That's a long time. Fred: Yeah. Everything is—you can't think of everything that I went through. Susan: No I realize that it is difficult. Fred: I went through and all that stuff I saw, my God, there was, we went down there, was around Easter, Palm Sunday it was. We went by the river. We went down to play baseball. It was nice and warm already and we were playing ball and there was a little girl on the bridge must have been about 5 or 6 years old on the swings you know kind of swings with plans to cross it so she said a little girl fell off the bridge there so we started running around along the side of the river. We saw her going down. We were going to catch up with her but the water was too fast and a that was in spring see so we're looking and looking around there and pretty soon we spotted that dress was caught on oh the limb in the river there you see and that's where we found her. Susan: And that saved her life, or was she drowned? Fred: Oh we didn't save her and we pulled her out and then we put her on the grass there and the way she laid on that grass where her hand and thing was. That grass where she laid down that all dried up— Susan: Strange. Fred: The poor little girl she laid on that grass that grass all they took her away that grass was just like she was like just the way she was laying on it one arm out and we couldn't save her going too fast and we didn't find her maybe about a half an hour later but we saw her dress stuck on the limb there then we got her out that way. Quite a while, I don't know this is a sometime—a you could get going and going with this sometime you're not in order you don't know what to start where to start there are so many things. Susan: Right—it's hard to cover a lifetime in a short while. Fred: Oh, I got more funny things I could tell you. Susan: Well Mr. Ondrako I—I want to thank you for giving us this time for the interview and perhaps— Fred: Well if you want anything else I can think of different things you want me to talk about maybe we'll do it again see like— Susan: Maybe we will when you have a little more time. Fred: This is - all this isn't too much and oh a lot of pranks and stuff we pull off but you can't do that they don't want this on there—(chuckle). We done so many things how we used to used to have wagons buggies you delivered your groceries by wagon—horse and wagon see— Susan: By horse and wagon.  Fred: Yeah—their—everybody had their things behind their store there—they had things where they put their wagons and their horses in there—Halloween we'd take the wagons out—we'd take this wagon from this—this grocery store place put it in and took the other one— Susan: —confuse them. Fred: Turn them around sometimes we let it go down the bank—we were good boys. Oh there’s different things right sometime when you get going it's like when I was talking to you but that's different here and there a part of this and part of that. If you can get it right in rotation everything in rotation— Susan: Right. Fred: That's nice, that's what I was thinking of. Susan: Well thanks for talking to us. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Fred Ondrako Subject The topic of the resource Ondrako, Fred -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Forest City (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Dunn & McCarthy cigar factory; St. Cyril & Methodius Church Description An account of the resource Fred Ondrako talks about his short early childhood in Forest City, PA. He discusses working in a silk mill and a coal mine while living in Pennsylvania. After moving to Binghamton he went to work at the Dunn McCarthy cigar factory and remained there fifty-one years. He also mentions serving many years as an usher for St. Cyril & Methodius Church. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 46 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ondrako, Fred ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-19 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 29:43 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e65665eed6ed35f6286cba4d12321c71.mp3 653fdadaff9cc49f99cc326501fff782 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d6601a42a405c0d053949439a9b06b52.mp3 1e6b427f181b9becca22bf0cd4e3f0a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Macko, George J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-03-30 Subject LCSH Macko, George -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Czechs--United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Politics; Broome Community College; Broome County (N.Y.). Supervisors, Board of; Binghamton Glass Co.; Olum's Furniture Co.; Glassblowing; Clinton Street neighborhood; First Ward; Interpreter; Broome County Airport; St. Michael's Church Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:03 Minutes ; 10:20 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56083">Interview with George J. Macko</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: George J. Macko Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 30 March 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to George J. Macko of 36 LaGrange Street, Binghamton, NY, on March 29, 1978. Mr. Macko, will you tell me about the experiences of your people coming here from Europe—coming here—etc.? George: Ready? Nettie: Yes. George: My dad and mother was born in what they call now Czechoslovakia, a good many years ago. Dad came here to the United States—he landed in Philadelphia in about the year 1888. He walked—he didn't have money enough to pay railroad fare from Philadelphia to Scranton, so him and another man that came over with him, they walked the railroad track from Philadelphia to Scranton—and they got—because lot of our friends is living there—so he stayed there a while and worked in the mines. He stayed at the mines a while—and he come back—he moved into Binghamton in 1890. He got his first citizen papers before that and he worked—hard job, to get a job them days—was putting sewer going down through Clinton Street. They hired you for two days and the next two days you was done—you didn't have a job, and you had to struggle along to get a job—so then he went to work and he got a job with Roberson Lumber Co. He had a job working outdoors piling lumber—when they comes in the cars and get piling it—he worked there, oh, ’til about 19—1907—no, 1906—he worked there 1896—he left there—he had a very bad case of asthma—had it tough. But he used to like to take his drinks, and he worked, but sometimes when it comes Friday or Saturday—boy—that was bad! But it’s one of them conditions—like the old timer used to be—that was nothing new to them. And Mother come to this country about 18—1890. She was a hard worker—she used to keep house. They used to have boarders come to live with us—they had good ones and they had bad ones—they had to make both ends meet to get along the best they could. About the year 1907—Dad come home from work one day and I come home from school, he said, Dad, “I'm not going to work anymore, I'm done—I can't work no more ’cause my asthma got me so I can't do anything." So he died. I was ten and a half years old then when he died, and two years later, Mother was in bad shape—she fell down on the ice in the wintertime on the sidewalk, hit the back of head—she went into a coma. She died two years after Dad died. That left us—I was twelve and a half years old at that time—so what happens—so after they both died—I went to live—my sister, my brother and I—went to live with my uncle, Mr. & Mrs. George Tatich. I lived with them. When I was fourteen years old, I had to quit school to go to work—so I started to work for the Binghamton Glass Co. as a mold boy and snapping-up boy. In 1913 I started apprenticeship of being a glassblower—learning the trade, glassblower. I stayed, worked in the glasshouse until 1924. I quit there in '24 and I went to work and started to work at Olum Furniture Co. on Clinton Street. Mr. Jacob Olum was the owner and proprietor of the business, and I worked for him, and I been working for him continuously until I retired after 51 years working. I come up the hard way with ’em—I met all kinds of people, good and bad—we managed to get along the best I could. I used to talk, go out to be a witness for, witness for people to be a citizen of this country—and used to go out to work selling furniture and go out, help a whole lot on different things—being sort of an interpreter for things for to help them along when they would buy homes, etc.—which we did—and they got going good—and I got to be working in the store. We got in the Slovak people, Polish people, Czechoslovakian people, Ukrainian people—and you meet them all—I could understand them and I could talk with them all—I had no difficulty at all. So, I worked ’til 19—19—after forty years of working for the store—I retired after I was 69 years old on social security. After I retired Mr. Olum wanted me to come back to work two or three nights a week, so I decided—I went back to work three times a week with a salary of $30.00 for twelve hours, and I stayed there, I put in eleven years doing that and I worked there ’til I was taken sick—and with doctor's orders, I decided to give up work, so I haven't been working since. So, my political help, I started to get in politics about in the year 1928. I was elected Secretary of the Roosevelt—Roosevelt Victory Democratic ticket—Secretary of the First Ward Group that we had here—and I kept being in politics, and went along and here of 19—1934—or ‘35, I run to be supervisor for the First Ward—and I was elected to that office, and I was elected continuously to that office from 19—1936 to 1955. In the 1955 election I got beat and that ended my career as a politician. Nettie: Well, tell me more about your politics—exactly what your job was. What was your—trustee, councilman, supervisor—? George: Supervisor. Nettie: Supervisor of what? George: I was county supervisor for twenty years. I was on different committees—I was on a whole lot of important committees on the Board of Supervisors—I spent nine years on the Finance Committee that made up the finances and the budget for the county for the year. I was on that for nine years. I was on the law Legislative Committee about nine years. I was on the Airport Committee from the time we started it, ’til I got beaten in the election. I was on the construction of the airport, and after the airport was finished—then I was on the committee that started when they started going to work on building a new college in Binghamton. The Board of Supervisors elected twelve members to be on the committee about getting a college in Binghamton. We decided to do that and the Board of Supervisors voted to appropriate one million dollars for that new college that we were supposed to have. Things went along smoothly, then all of a sudden things turned around. Lt. Governor—er—er—Lt. Governor of the state, he came down, we had a meeting with the Board of Supervisors. He wanted us to go to work and start another college in the city and at one million dollars that we wanted to appropriate for the state college—to go to work, to put that toward the new community college that, they called it at that time—it wasn't community college, at that time, it was the School of Science. So they took—they—they split the committee of the twelve men—they took three men, Harry True, myself, and Hugh Wheeler to be on the new school that we wanted to open up—which today is Broome Technical School. And I been on that school from the time they started it ’til I got beaten in the election. I still have a lot of faith in that school and I think it is one of the Godsends of our County for having a school like that. That is a very good school. Nettie: Mr. Macko—how about telling me more the airport—how it started—how did it get around? I know it had something to do with the Johnsons—I'm not sure. George: Johnsons? Johnson—what's-his-name was on the committee. Nettie: Charlie Johnson? George: See, they had an airport in Endicott, but they wanted to have a bigger airport because the government would not put any money into that airport because of circumstances in the airport that they didn't think would be feasible to do it. So they appointed a committee—Johnson was on that—ooh—President of the Ansco Co. was on that—quite a few real business people were on that committee. So they come before the Board of Supervisors to see what we can do, if we would be—interested in building the airport—so we had a meeting, and this group of people come and explained to us why we should have a new airport here and so forth, like that. And, ah, ’course I was interested in aviation because my son was a flier. My son is a flier in the Navy. After they got through talking, we heard all sides of the story and the Board was kind of quiet, so I said to this—I can't think of his name now, he used to be a big wheel here—I said, “You people—now you sell up a idea, this here airport, now you should go out, and go out and canvas the city and different parts of the city, kinds of different parts of the county, then come back to us with the report—see what you made on it.” And it went along like that, and they came back and then the board decided that we go along building the airport. Nettie: How did you find that site? Why not another site? George: This committee that was working on it, they had that all located. They showed us the site before we started to do it. We all saw it. It's a good site, but still, it’s a condition of Broome County—when you get fogged, you get fogged in—you can't help it, it's a situation we have here. Nettie: A sort of pockets there, too. George: That's right. The airport did a good thing for the community. Nettie: Yes, business. George: Everything. Everybody. A lot of people come back, come back and objected to me, come up, a lot come up, he said, “George, we gave you the devil for being for the airport, but we're sure happy you done it." Nettie: That's right, that's right. George: I said that's all right—that's the way you got to take it—some good and bad. Nettie: That's right. George: I says I always manage—oh, when—I always manage, when I even voted—when I even voted for anything in the county, on the different budgets, I always went to work—I went to court [inaudible], hard concepts, I listen to ’em—I'm talking—if it's a good thing and they satisfaction me, I voted for it. And if I wasn't satisfied, I'd question them about it—and after I questioned, if the question come out to my satisfaction, I voted for it, if not, I voted against it—and that was always my motto when I voted for anything. Nettie: Other words, you voted, you went along as though it was something of your own, as though that was your private thing. George: Well, the benefit of the people, for the benefit of the people. Nettie: That's right. Your heart was really in it. George: That's right. I didn't want to hold up anything that wasn't, that wasn’t—anybody that was detrimental to the city, I didn't like. Nettie: Did you ever know the Kilmers? Did you ever know anything about the Kilmers? George: I've known of them, but I never had any contact with ‘em. Nettie: How about the Link people? Do you know the Links? George: I know Ed Link, but, ah— Nettie: Just through business? George: Just through business, that's right. Nettie: Nothing personal. Well, how about telling me—where was this Olum's located? On Clinton Street, or was it located— George: —Clinton Street. Nettie: Clinton Street. At that era, say fifty years ago, I know that they had, probably, many stores and probably, I think Jewish people had stores, and things like that. Will you tell me something about that? Other people you got involved with? George: Well, there was different people had businesses there, mostly grocery stores—why, mostly—there were two or three Jewish places had grocery stores. Then they had a dry goods store that they have, that they used to have on Clinton Street, people by the name of Smock’s. They used to have children—children's—and baby dressing, and dresses for the ladies. They was in business for quite a while, but then he died off, she died off—that closed that business up—and then they had a lot of people running the hotel—saloon, drinking places, that so many of them had, some in and some out. Nettie: Wasn't there a Lincoln Hotel at one time? George: Yeah—Lincoln Hotel. Nettie: That's before Ann Kolota had it. George: Well, Lincoln Hotel, Mr. Torony owned it—he used to have a corner on, a hotel on the corner of Charles and Clinton Street. He was doing business there, but he had to get out of there, so then he went to work—took the Lincoln Hotel over. And he’d run that for quite a while—and went along, got along good—we used to go there and I used to meet him quite often—every week, my wife and I’d go there every week. They used to have dances, there’d be dancin’, we'd meet different people and we'd have a glorious time there. So Mr. Torony got down to the point, he says, "George,” he says, “I want to give up—I want to sell.” He says, “I want to sell it to you."  I says, "Steve! Sell it to me?” I says, "I haven't got the money to pay for that."  He says, "What do you care? I'll take a mortgage."  Yes, but I said, "I don't want to worry about a mortgage." But it went along, and a fellow by the name of Maxim come along, he bought it. Maxim had it for quite a while, and he sold it—and I don't know who had it now since the Kolotas had it. I don't know who runs it now. I used to go out, and people who come from the old country had to go, they all had to go and order up cit—get citizen papers. I used to go out, I can't tell you even how many people I went to be—ah—be a citizen, put in for citizen papers for. Well sometimes, ah—they used to make me mad—they wouldn’t come and tell me, "Will you go for me?” but they’d come up and tell me, “You gotta go for me.” And it’s the night—the day before they got to go to court, they’d say, “You got to go with me." So I turned a few of them down. Anyone—anybody that wanted me to be a witness for ‘em and I didn’t like their character, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't go for everyone, because one time I went for a witness with another fella—both of the fellas are dead—one was a witness and one was the man running for citizen paper. We went up—I never had to worry about what I said or done, but I wasn't—I wasn’t—I didn't hear what the other guy had to say, so I was going to be honest—so this examiner, when we got through, he said, he says, "All right,” he said, “I will rest your case, but,” he said, “when you come before the judge and get citizen papers,” he says, “I will put perjury charges against you.” Nettie: Put what? George: Perjury charges. Nettie: Oh, perjury. George: So we had to go from one office to another to sign up. Someone—but this thing was bothering me all the while. And I said to the guy, I says, "Come on back." Ah, he said, "Where?" I said, "We're going back to the examiner, again." He said, "Why?" I said, "He said something I didn't like as far as myself is concerned—I don't know about you, but I'm fighting for myself." So I went in there and saw him. He said—I think his name was Smith—I says, "Smith, did I understand you say that you passed us all right but when it comes to court—before the court to get the papers, you’ll go put perjury charges against us?"  He says, “Yes,” so I says, “Let me tell you, Smith, right now.” I said, "You want to make damn sure that the perjury charges you're going to put against me, that they’re gonna be good, or I'm gonna sue you.” I said, "I will not go to work and stand up to anybody accusing me of perjury when I haven’t perjured myself." Well, we come to court, he never mentioned a thing about it—he just said to the judge, "Pass the guy." But I'm telling you, so—you had some of them couldn't write their names, you know, hard workers—they never wrote in their lives [inaudible]. I had one guy in particular, Harry Terre—Harry Tatiliba. He's [inaudible] junkyard [inaudible] iron all day long—how do you expect a guy to write a letter when he never wrote a letter before? So he had it in there and the examiner called me in and he said, "George,” he says. he says, "I like this guy and all that, but he says he can't sign his name.” I said, "Let me talk to him in his language.” I said, “He'll sign it.” I said, “he'll do it, just let me talk his language.” So I told him in his language, I said, "If you don't sign your name, you're not going to get the citizen papers, so take your time—try to write as plain as you can. Take your time, don't rush it." He did. (Laughing.) Nettie: They have to have someone interpreting for them. George: That's right. I had—I had to ask permission to interpret for him. So—I’d never done that. Nettie: That was interesting. George: Another time I went up for a witness for a man. He was born here—in Scranton—well, he goes outside of Scranton. When the war come along they took him in—pushed. He said he wouldn't go and fight because he wasn’t going to fight against his brothers over there, his father and brothers in the old country. And he was born here, they took him in, but when he got discharged from the Army he got his citizen papers. So I went up to be a witness for his wife for papers, and this examiner—she took her husband's citizen paper with her—and he questioned her, he says, "This is your husband?" She says, "Yes”—and he was born in, near Scranton, and was baptized in Scranton—she said, "Yes."  Well, he said, "He didn't need no citizen papers—he's a citizen in the first place." Well, he said, "The government gave it to him when he discharged, so that's it." So, you see there was wrong in there, too. Nettie: That's right. George: So, she got her paper without a bit of trouble. But most of the people, I never had none of them turned down that I went to be witness for—because I was careful who I went for. I went for Slovak people, I went for American people, I went for Italian people—those that I knew they was all right, I went for ‘em, no trouble at all. And I never tried to charge any of them any money for going—although losing time at work, but never charged any of them—but some of them would give me a donation once in a while. And a friend of mine, I went for citizen’s papers for him and his wife—and they both got it. And I was running for election that year, and he went to work, he said, to some people he said, "Don't vote for George. George has been there long enough,” he said, "get somebody else to run." I said, "That's what I get paid for being his witness." (Laughing.) Nettie: People are comical, aren't they? George: You got ups and downs, I'm telling you. Yeah. Nettie: Since we're on Clinton Street, how about telling me something about that Horvatt Bank that was closed— George: Horvatt Bank was closed by the State Dept. of Banking—they closed it. There was a discrepancy or something, something like that. I don't want to bring in the bi—the other part of it. But it, ah—It hurt the people of the First Ward and hurt the business of the First Ward when that bank went under. There's no question about it. It’s just too bad that it happened. Nettie: Mr. Macko, what kind of people went to that bank? Why didn't they go to Binghamton Savings Bank? Why did they go to Horvatt Bank? George: They went to the Horvatt because he's one of our kind, and he used to have a good reputation. His dad used to run the beer business, which, my dad used to go there every week—had a grand time—and the family was well known, so the people had a lot of confidence in him so they went to the bank. Now, you take all the churches—all the churches had money in banquet—er—Horvatt's Bank. I was elected Treasurer in St. Michael's Church in the July. When the half year was up they elected me for a full year, so, a year and half as Treasurer in St. Michael's Church. After that I was elected for President of the Board from 1923 to '29. In '29, after the year 1929, I didn't want to be on it any longer, so I—I was elected but I refused it, wouldn’t be swore in, so that stopped it. Then, I didn't get elected—got elected again in 1934. In 1934 I took it again amidst a lot of turmoil—church fight was starting in there—which I didn't like, didn’t need in the first place, because I knew the law says, when you got membership laws to go by, that's all you got to worry about—membership laws. Well, St. Michael’s Church was dedic—er—elected—er, appointed by 27 families. They got the charter for St. Michael’s Church in 1920—er, in 1904, and when I was there I tried to keep within the law on everything was done, and the people had confidence in me and they always wanted me in there. So after I served in 1920, er, ‘34, this church fight got started, harder, hotter and hotter, and I tried to calm it down the best I could. I used to tell ‘em, he says, "Look at this—why do we have to fight? Don't go to the left, don't go to the right, but stay in the middle of the road,” and I said, “If you stay in the middle of the road, you're gonna win. And if you don't stay in the middle of the road, you don't win.” Well, it just happened, they wasn’t under membership laws in New York State. Well, the law, the charter said we should have the Greek Catholic Church—Greek Catholic Church rites. That was in the charter. But that was, that was the fight about Greek Catholic Church religion, fighting, that didn't help ‘em any. But if I say, there wasn’t no law to take ‘em out of the—they even sent two lawyers to the old country to check up on the history of the church and everything—Bernie Chernin and another guy. That was a vacation for them. Who paid—and who paid for it? The poor people. So—is there anything else? Nettie: When you were telling me about—you were working—your dad was a glassblower? George: I was a glassblower. Nettie: You were a glassblower. George: I was a glassblower. I was seventeen years old when I started blowing glass. Nettie: Mr. Macko, will you tell me the procedure of blowing glass? I think it is quite interesting—can you explain it? Or if you can’t, you have to show it, is that it?  George: (Laughing.) You know, we used to have thirty-three glassblowers working at the glassworks, but every year they allowed, they’d usually allow them to put one apprentice—to put an apprentice on, so, every year there's men put in for ‘em. I went in for a four-year apprentice—they used to have a five-year apprentice, but when l went in it was a four-year apprentice. We used to have old glass—sand, soda, lime, and potash—and we used to melt it, and we used to have about a hundred tons of glass melted just like molasses, day and night. And you’d have a long pipe, a pipe about that long [about 24”], and you’d put a [inaudible] on the end of it, and you'd go to work and gather that glass, take it and roll it on the stone or iron, and you had a form for the bottle, and you'd go to work and before you closed the bowl you’d blow the bottle out. So they used to make bottles from—anyway, I used to make a bottle from one half ounce up to sixteen ounces—but then, they used to make bottles up to five gallons, but that I couldn't do because that was too big a job for me. Nettie: Is that only bottles, or did you make vases and other things? George: Bottles. Nettie: —just bottles— George: Just bottles. So, in 1923, the year—we closed for the season, and then '24, I started work for Olum. That was the end of my glassblowing business. But that was hard work. In wintertime, half a side you were burning and the other side of you was freezing, and blowing glass all day long was no picnic. You had to go clear round the—you had to work in union—unison. And if you didn't—if you happened to stop—the thing didn't work out for you when you was on, on the kneading board. To divide it, you'd have to holler, “Look out!” because the man would come around with the hot glass and hit you in the rear with it—burn your pants if you didn't holler. So you had to be watchin’ all the time. Had to go day round, day round and round and round. Nettie: Did this have something to do with your respiration after many years? George: Didn't bother me. I used to play in a band, even! Blow glass, play in a band. Oh, no. We, ah—back in 1912, we started a band from St. Michael’s Church. Nettie: Just a few men? George: Oh, there were the few of us—then there was quite a few of them, wound up, but the band went along, gone along good. Nettie: What did you do in the band? How many in the band, and what part did you play in it? George: I played the cornet. I played the cornet, but then I quit that band, and guys asked me to go to work, get a saxophone—and I start blowing, training on the saxophone and I went to work, went to first work for the Slovak Citizens Band. I played in that afterward. But St. Michael’s band—they had a nice band, but they broke up. Nettie: Where did you play? At picnics, things like that? George: Yes. Nettie: Did you have high school? George: My education—I went to school when I was seven years old and I quit when I was fourteen—I got up, er, finished the seventh grade and graduated the glassblower. (Laughing.) Yeah. Nettie: Your education was experience throughout life, right? George: That's right—but thank God I struggled along all right. I can't complain. Nettie: Did you have a son in service? George: Yeah—my older boy. Nettie: Will you tell us about your family? George: I got two sons—and they’re both high school graduates—-and then he started—the War come along—he went to work and started to take night school in Endicott High School to be a pilot, and he went along. They picked ten men out of the class to go to work and take flying lessons in the Endicott Airport—so, he was one of the ten—so then he went to work after that certain length—-certain courses to go through. Then they took, out of the ten—they picked out five others to go for another course of flying, and he went along—he won every one of them because—so things come along, and the report come out from Washington that all the civilians in pilot training have to join the service—and there's ten of them up in Endicott. There were some from Massachusetts, some from New York in the class—so they got together and, “We got to join, we got to join the service”—so they went to the Navy-Army recruiting station here. They wanted to enlist as pilots in aviation in the government—they wouldn't take them, so they decided to go to New York and got the Navy Department up there to see if they could take them in. Well, they had a meeting there, the twelve men, and they said, “We will.” He says, “Gonna take a couple of you, two of you is gonna pass. One is perfect—he's in from right today—he's in.” That was my son. They take him for this one. “From today on, you're a Navy man. Go out and buy a uniform and the government will pay for ‘em—and the government will pay for ‘em.” And the other boy, he's a boy from Owego—they gave him thirty days to fix up his teeth and report back in New York in thirty days, and he was appointed after that—so my son was in there. He trained pilots for the Navy for I think, for two and a half years. So then they went to work—so, they kinda closed down on that after, they went to work—they send them out to be instructed to be fighter pilots, so my son, the older boy, is a Navy fighter pilot, and they laid him off and he got through with the rank of Commander—from Ensign to Commander is quite a step without a big education—so he came back home, and he wanted—to put in full time and part time. He's got 27 years in as a Navy pilot. Nettie: Is he living here—in the Triple Cities? George: He's living here—he's living up above us on this street. He's got two boys, both college graduates. Both work for American Airlines—one works out of the super—vice president's office—the older one works out of the vice president's office as a troubleshooter or something, and the other one, the younger one, works in the accounting office, and my younger boy, Joe, he works, lives with me here—and he's been working ever since he graduated college—er—high school, for GAF for 34 1/2 years, and he got laid off. Nettie: That was sad. George: Yeah. He can't get a job—to get a job for $2.65 an hour—but when you’re making more money than that, try and get a job. Try and get a job. Nettie: I know. It is very hard. George: Them are the situations. Nettie: Mr. Macko, when you worked at Olum's, what kind of wages did you get—years ago, compared to wages now? George: I started there at $25.00 a week—you work from 8 o'clock to 9, 10 o'clock at night. Nettie: Every day? George: Every day, every day. Nettie: How did they deliver furniture? Must have had buggies? George: They had a truck—truck. Nettie: They always had trucks? George: Yeah, I was a salesman, I was a salesman—help uncrate the stuff, crate the stuff, polish the stuff, truck driving. I done everything, even swept the floor in the store. Nettie: For $25.00 a week? That was when? How long ago? George: That was back about 1924-1925. Nettie: Now the wages are different, right? George: Then we got a raise. Then, when Horvatt Bank went under in 1929, we had to take a cut in wages again. Nettie: Oh. George: The boss lost his money—so them are the things. Nettie: How about the charge accounts? Will you explain? George: They have charge accounts—which is a good account—good charge account. They'd have—before, they didn't use to have a charge account, and especially when we had floods. The people that were born here and they owed him more, more. Mr. Olum didn't crowd them—anything—he asked them to go along, “Pay a little as you can,” he said [inaudible] and you work along with ‘em. Then after that, he'd take the furniture and have it fixed for repairs—stuff like that—and then he started a Red Circle Credit Bureau, which you can have—buy furniture—without paying a carrying charge on it for a year. After a year there is a carrying charge, but the carrying charge is about—at that time was, I think, about 10%—that was made on the schedule, that average was 10%. On the electrical end of it, they used to give them ninety days without a carrying charge to pay for it. If they didn't pay for it, then you had to pay a carrying charge—and the carrying is the same way they are today in the store—you're doing business directly with the store, not with outsiders. See, it is a company-owned store. Nettie: Sounds like Mr. Olum was a very nice man to work for. Sounds like he had a lot of compassion for people, the way you tell me. George: He was very good to the people, very good. That's why all the people used to go to him, because he was so nice to ‘em—he was a Jew but he was like one of us, as far as that goes. Nettie: Is he still living? George: Oh yes, he'll be coming home from Florida in April. He's going to be 84 years old and I'll be 83—the same day—yeah. He was a very nice man to work for—-because I lived there—er, worked there that long. Nettie: He sounds like a very nice man. George: Yeah. Nettie: Going back to Clinton Street, do you remember any people or characters who were colorful—someone comical—something outstanding about certain people? George: Well— Nettie: Maybe someone prominent? George: There weren't any too prominent. They was all congenial—all happy, jolly, full of jokes, etc. Nettie: Well, do you want to tell me anything else, Mr. Macko? George: I don't know— Nettie: What social life did you have? George: My social life was very good. My wife—we're married 62 years, will be 62. We got along good—we raised a family of two boys—getting along right now—getting along good right now, thank God. As far as social life, we can't complain—as long as we are healthy and well, that's the main thing, the rest will come gradually. Nettie: Do you belong to any clubs? George: Just the First Ward citizens. Nettie: Do you go out there? Do you have your meals there? George: I haven't been in there quite a while. Look, all winter long I haven't drove my car—from the day—all winter long. The boy, younger boy stayed home, he said, "Stay home. Never mind driving the car, roads are so bad—get off of them," so I stayed home and didn't drive. Nettie: It was a bad winter, wasn't it? George: Oh, it was awful. Nettie: Is there anything you have interesting for our tape? Something on your mind? George: Say, there is one thing. You go down to First Ward Library, there is a library book in Slovak that was made by Mr. Mazar and Paul Sasinek. I saw it four years ago—has the history of the Slovak people in the Ward here. If you get a chance to look it up, you'll see it. Nettie: I think it will be very nice. George: I think you'll get a whole lot out of that. Nettie: Well, Mr. Macko, it was a pleasure of you giving us information for our tape. Thank you very much. George: You’re welcome, I assure you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with George J. Macko Subject The topic of the resource Macko, George -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Czechs--United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Politics; Broome Community College; Broome County (N.Y.). Supervisors, Board of; Binghamton Glass Co.; Olum's Furniture Co.; Glassblowing; Clinton Street neighborhood; First Ward; Interpreter; Broome County Airport; St. Michael's Church Description An account of the resource Macko talks about his father immigrating from Czeckoslavia and settling in Binghamton, NY. Both his parents died when he was young and he and his siblings lived with a relative. At fourteen he left school to work for the Binghamton Glass Co. where he learned the glassblowing trade. He details the operation of the glassblowing. He left there after ten years to work for Olums Furniture Co. on Clinton Street. He worked there for fifty-one years. He describes the Clinton Street neighborhood and the businesses located there. He served as an interperter and assisted immigrants in the community with paperwork for mortgages and citizenship. After retiring he became involved in politics. He served as a County Supervisor for twenty years representing the First Ward. He speaks of being on several committees during his time as a County Supervisor and was involved with the creation of Broome Technical School [Broome Community College] and the Broome County Airport. He also served as a board member of St. Michael's Church. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fa Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 71 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Macko, George J. ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-30 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:03 Minutes ; 10:20 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/67ca71aa8b26b00f1ba56884bd6a019f.mp3 ad65ce184da3527f399520bbd2b14711 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56945">Interview with Gladys Gitchell</a> Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 17:09 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Interview Format Video or Audio Sound Subject LCSH Gitchell, Gladys -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); South Dakota; Department stores Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Gladys Gitchell Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 13 January 1978 Susan: Mrs. Gitchell, could you tell us something about your early beginnings—where you came from, what your parents did, and things like that? Gladys: Well, I was born in Alpoint, South Dakota. My father's name was James Campbell, my mother’s name was Villie. I, ah—he ran, my father ran a department store in a little village and, ah, his—my brothers and sisters and I helped in the store. It was just a country department store. One side was a dry goods store, one side was a bakery, and one side was a grocery store. From there we worked and went to school, which only took us through the seventh grade as we had to be sent to the city to go to high school. At that time I met my husband, Arthur Gitchell, and we were married when I was nineteen. We moved to a ranch outside of Reah Heights, which was a small town, and we raised cattle, horses, hogs and sheep and chickens. We separated the milk and sold the cream and fed the skimmed milk to the calves and pigs. He milked twenty-seven cows. When in 1921, we decided to come east to New York State to visit my husband’s people that lived on a farm in Apalachin. While we were there we visited his uncle in Binghamton, who was Hollis M. Gitchell, Water Superintendent. He talked my husband into taking a job with the city and staying in Binghamton as not only as having a better job, but also having better schooling for our children. So, we sent word back to South Dakota and had our properties disposed of and stayed on. At that time my husband worked in the Water Department and did an east side route for the city water by carrying sand and salt and a shovel and walking the route and digging out the fire hydrants and, whenever finding a frozen one, fill it with salt and making them safe for the fireman. At that time he was making $4.35 a day. Which—we lived on Washington Street at that time, we lived on Washington Street in City property between Hawley and Stuart, and I kept roomers, and in 1927 we decided to buy us a home, which we did, at 43 Andrews Ave. I became interested in the school—parent-teacher work, and did what I could with the other ladies to get new schools and improve our school system on the east side. In ‘21 when—was when the new East Jr. was built—no, that’s wrong, ’27, the new East Jr. was built, and in 1938 the new North High School was built. We called it the North High school because it was the north—the people on the northside wanted the school built in their district. So, we built it and called it North High, which starts the north side of E. Fredricks Street. It was a big piece of swampland and made a—by filling it all in, it made a—a nice football field and recreation field for both of the Central High School and the north side.  At that time I worked, clerked in the different stores in Binghamton. I started in at Fowler’s in the late forties. As the condition of the bus system changed, I found it more convenient to leave Fowler’s and come to the east side and work in a 10¢ store. It was on the corner of Robinson and Moeller Street, where I worked for thirteen years. I try now to keep very active in the senior citizen work, where I volunteer my time—the Greenman Center, where—which is located where the Pine Street school was torn down. Susan: Tell us how many children you had. Gladys: I had eight children—four boys and four girls. They all became active in some business. My daughter has worked—my oldest daughter has worked for the Universal Instrument, which has business in a great many different places—Chicago, Canada, and different—and she has worked for thirty-five years as a cost accountant. One boy works for the Board of Education, one boy works for TV, colored TV repair, and my son James, who lives in Maryland, works for the Metro—Metro 77, which he has worked for them for the past year. Susan: You want to bring out that it's a new concept in transportation. Gladys: —which is a new concept in transportation. It expands—the Metro system will carry millions of riders to offices, schools, stores and recreation centers on both sides of the Potomac River. The automatic fare collection begins with the open of—the Blue Line, with the Blue Line you won't have to carry any extra change. All you need to do—need to do is insert a coin in a fare box— Susan: —fare box— Gladys: —a vending machine in the station itself, and into—you insert it into the slot and it pops right back at you in a half a second, and on you walk onto the Metro train. Date of Interview 1978-01-13 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gitchell, Gladys Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Gladys Gitchell speaks of growing up in South Dakota before marrying her husband and moving, with him, to New York. She discusses her husband's job caring for the fire hydrants in the city of Binghamton and her work improving the schools on the east side of the city. She worked as a clerk at several stores in Binghamton and is now active in her senior citizen organization. She also discusses her children and their current occupations. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Gladys Gitchell Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 75 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gitchell, Gladys ; Dobandi, Susan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 17:09 minutes Subject The topic of the resource Gitchell, Gladys -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); South Dakota; Department stores https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/21aba41edbd6083cdabbd1e9de35a5f7.mp3 6dc71747fd45b780b50d04ec13a399d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Johnson, Harmon; Johnson, Harold Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-31 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:31 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55954">Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson</a> Subject LCSH Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Harmon and Harold Johnson Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 31 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Harmon and Harold Johnson on Airport Road in Chenango Bridge, and the date is the thirty-first of January, 1978. Now, you Johnson brothers have operated the Chenango Bridge Airport since the mid-thirties, and we'd like to know a little something about the history of the operation or any remembrances that you have which you'd like to put down on this tape. So who wants to start first? Harmon: I'll say that I got the flying bug in about 1930. I went for a ride in a an old Tri-motor Ford at the old Bennett Airport, and from then on decided flying was for me and a I saved my money and in 1932 learned to fly with Ed Link at the old Bennett Airport. He had a school there, I soloed out in about the first of May and got a private license in June. At that time it only took ten hours to get a license and the inspector never rode with you. He stood on the ground and watched you. I think he was afraid to ride with you. We didn't have that much time. Wanda: [laughter] That's funny. Harmon: Ah, only a joke, I guess, but, ah…they didn't ride with you. They stood on the ground and watched you. After that I flew along with Ed's airplane and got a limited commercial license, and then a couple of years later Harold and I went—my brother and I went in together and bought an airplane, and we brought it up to the Chenango Bridge Airport. There we carried a lot of passengers. Everybody wanted to ride, and we'd take 'em. I guess a dollar a head. Two at a time. They had the Italian field day over here at the old airport and when they had that these people would come from all over—like a big fair. We'd carry a lot of people—just ride around the field. Wanda: Italian field day here, at this airport? Harmon: Yeah. Umhmm. Harold: They'd have them across the river sometimes, too— Harmon: After that. Harold: —in the pasture there. It was like an island over there they used to have. Wanda: So then, Harold. You started to…fly? Harold: Yeah, I learned to fly on the old American Eagle biplane that we bought together in partnership. My dad helped us out. We didn't have money enough to buy it, so we—the three of us went in. Gave him his money back when we sold it. Harmon: Well I'd say this. We paid $600.00 for it, which was a lot of money then. Harold: I'd forgotten what we paid for it. Harmon: $600.00. Two hundred apiece. Harold: I learned to fly in that and soloed it, and took a private flight test. And I—the inspector came in to Endicott and I went down to take the flight test on that airplane to get a private license and I came in and he was riding with me. He thought I was too high to shoot for a spot-landing on the airport. He grabbed it away from me and slipped it. And I had to put the power right back on, and drag it in because it was gonna hit short of the field, you know. The inspector did that. I always remember that. He slipped it too much. It was down a hundred feet short of the end of the runway if I hadn't dragged it down, but he just laughed. He didn't say nothing. Gave me my license. I met that guy in Washington. Down there when I was flying in there for some—probably E.J. or somebody at Washington International Airport, and the guy came walking out and wanted to know if I was Johnson from Binghamton and talked with me for a while. He was one of the wheels in the F.A.A. at that time. Wanda: Oh, he went up the line. Harold: He's probably retired by now. Maybe he's dead, I don't know, but that was a good many years ago. I got the—I went about a year using a private license. I got the transport in ‘37. That was after we had our C-3 Aeronca. I took that to Ithaca for my transport license. Wanda: Oh yes, we want to put in here about some of the a—different planes that you've handled and owned and so forth here at Chenango Bridge. Harmon: We started out with the old Eagle and we sold that. Or Harold started out, actually—I'll take that back. After we sold the Eagle you bought the C-3 Aeronca,didn't you? Harold: The old Razorback. Harmon: On your own. I didn't have any money. Harold: That was about a 1930 or '31 model airplane. Harmon: And didn't have it any length of time at all and lost it in the fire over here—it burned up. Harold: Probably six months or something like that. Harmon: Yeah, we lost it. And then we went back together and Jesse Haskell, who was the owner of the airport, said, “If someone wants to fly, I'll build them a hangar.” So he knocked together a little 2x4 hangar out there—a cheap thing. Harold: For one airplane. Cheap. Harmon: For one little airplane. Wanda: Oh. Harmon: And nailed some contact supports together and that's—about what it was, a real cheap-built thing. And we started out then teaching students to fly on our C-3 Aeronca. Later on, we got the Aeronca dealership for the Aeronca K, which wasn't much of an airplane. And they changed over in a couple of years and came out with the Aeronca, what they called the Aeronca Chief, which was a good little airplane in its day. It was hard to beat. It was very comfortable riding, very quiet, and good performance for the horsepower that was on it. Wanda: And you paid how much for the first Aeronca Chief? Harmon: First Aeronca Chief was right around fifteen hundred—fifteen-fifty or something like that, if I recall. Wanda: And what are they now? Harmon: Today if that airplane was built, being built today, would be right around $10,000.00, just about. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Maybe even more than that. Maybe twelve? Wanda: So you had dealerships with the Aeronca and the—what's the other one? Harmon: Piper. Wanda: Piper. And then a—how about the students and the teaching part of it? You both were—have been instructors all this time. Harmon: Yes. We got commercial licenses that you have to have to have an instructor's rating and got our instructor's rating as we went along. And, uh, taught for many years. Seems like we always had about all the students we could carry. And I worked a lot of the time at another job, and was always kept pretty busy. Harold: Before we built that office building that's there now, we had a little shack out in back of there for an office. It had a phone in it and a little stove in it and a desk in it and Doris worked there. But we had appointments so far ahead that... There was so many students wanted to fly. You couldn't take care of them, you know. If you wanted a half-hour on a weekend you'd have to book it at least two weeks ahead. To get in a half-hour lesson. Harmon: And the weather was against us too, of course. We couldn't fly students when the weather was bad, and this really pushed them in together and— Harold: Them old airplanes was awful light, you know. You couldn't fly with very much wind with them, with a student. They flobbed around a lot. They was real light airplanes. Wanda: I want to say I admire you for flying with students anyway. There's a certain amount of risk involved there, isn't there? Harmon: Oh there's bound to be. Even if you don't get rattled, and stay with it while you're in trouble. Wanda: And this was mostly during, after the War that you were so busy? Harmon: Yes. Before the War and right up through the War and on beyond the end of it. And then as the economy—after the War everything let down, if you remember right, and— Harold: About '48 it started lettin'— Harmon: '48 it gradually went down. About '50 it was really bad and so I left. I couldn't make a living anymore and I left and went in industry and stayed there until I retired. And we ran the airport as a sideline after Harold left, about 1957 or '58. I continued on with three airplanes. Two Tri-pacers and an Aeronca Champ and it got too much for me. As I stayed and my duties got greater and greater and I got into supervision and I just couldn't handle so much. And I was getting older, too. So I sold one airplane after another and finally wound up with just one airplane that I've run now for the last ten or twelve years. And now I'm down to no students at all and my own airplane. I keep still, a lot of other people's airplanes. Still run the airplane, airport. Mow a lot of grass and plow an awful lot of snow—boy. For nothing, I guess. Wanda: And Harold, you, you tell a little about when you—a—flew for Endicott-Johnson. Harold: Yes. After things got quiet here, in order to help out, I, I flew for G.A.F. for about four or five years. That was just on a monthly retainer. I'd fly when they wanted me to. Sometimes I didn't hear from them for a month and then sometimes I'd make a trip to California and back with their airplane. They had two—a Beach Bonanza and a 180-Cessna. At other times they had Tri-pacers, different things I flew for them, but they kept those two for a long time. Then E.J.’s—Asa Dodge was the pilot for E.J.’s. Wanda: Asa Dodge? Harold: Yeah, and we knew him well—in fact I'd given him some dual years ago. And he was a—he'd been flying for several years for E.J.’s different airplanes. They bought a brand new Aero-Commander-680 with $20,000.00 worth of electronic gear in it. In them days, that was a lot. And they wanted to have two pilots. So I was, I left G.A.F. and went to work for them full time. Wanda: And you're a—are you teaching now at all? Harold: Hmm? Wanda: Are you teaching now at all? Harold: No. I haven't done any flying in ten years. Wanda: ls that a fact? Harmon: I've told him, "Hey, come around and fly my Tri-pacer,” but [he] don't want to do it. Harold: If I could afford a nice twin-engine airplane like a new Aztec or something like that for myself, and afford to operate it, I'd have one and fly it. Wanda: Yes. Harold: But, ah…I'm not much interested in flying little machines around locally. I did that too much. Many thousands of hours of it. Wanda: How many hours do you suppose you, both of you have got logged in this? Harold: I don't know. Got twenty-some thousand—I don't know what it was. Harmon: I have logged around ten-thousand and have flown probably many more than that I never logged. Wanda: Yes. Harmon: For years, I never bothered with log. Too much of a nuisance to make out a log book, I guess. At the end of the day you're tired out, 'n’ you go home…forget it. Harold: Yes, for the first ten-thousand I logged most all the time. Where if I didn't, my wife did it for me. She kept it up, you know.Then hit and miss. When I'd work for E.J.’s we had to—we had time to go to the airplanes, and the same way with G.A.F., they had to have the time, you know, but just—flyin' over here and half the time I didn't bother to log it. Wanda: And, and you've always done your, your own maintenance on these planes? Harmon: Pretty much, yes. Harold: When we weren't flying in the wintertime that's how we got by. We used to build airplanes for other people. We used to build wrecks, and overhaul the engines, fix our own up too, during the wintertime get 'em ready for to keep them during the summer, you know? That was the idea. We had a heated shop, heated to a certain extent, enough so that we could work in it you know.We'd have sometimes two or three airplanes torn apart. I remember one guy that bought a wrecked airplane. He bought pieces here and there. Remember Eddie Walker? Harmon: Yeah. Harold: He made an airplane out of it—and he flew it away. There was some pieces gone. I remember splicing wood spars that was broke right off—splice 'em and glue 'em, you know, clear 'em all up, get them inspected—flew 'em that way. We had the tail end off one airplane, and the front end off another, but as long as we could get 'em and make 'em fly— Harmon: The F.A.A. came in, you know. We had to take the airplane to the F.A.A. inspector and have it inspected by them. And they would approve it— Harold: They had to inspect it before, before it was covered, though, you know. Inside and then afterwards and— Harmon: We'd have to contact them, and they came here to the airport and checked—looked them over, and OK, and then we could cover them. Wanda: Mmm. There's probably a lot more rules and regulations than a—when you first started out. Harmon: Oh, it's terrible anymore. Wanda: Anything interesting there? Harmon: Anymore there's so many rules and regulations that the F.A.A. themselves don't know. They gotta go get the book and get it out and read the book on it. You couldn’t possibly remember them all. No way. It's got to be the most complicated thing that ever was, in my book. Harold: In fact, now I'm miles behind on the regulations. I don't even try to keep up with them. After ten years, the heck with it. Harmon: I'm sure a lot of it I'm not up on, but I, I go to school every two years ah—to a refresher—three days—24 hours of classroom and get my instructor's rating renewed and that—updates me again, to a certain extent, but I guess nobody can remember all the regs that you've got today. Harold: Requirements for a license have changed a tremendous amount since we learned to fly. Wanda: What were the requirements when you first flew? Harmon: In fact, that only—we had to have ten hours to be able to fly around the patch and that was it. Harold: You could carry passengers. Harmon: Yeah. They stood on the ground and watched ya. You took a little written test on the rules and regulations. Ten questions, practically nothing to it, and the— Harold: Write them out with pencil, and throw it away. Harmon: The inspector told you whether you passed that or not, and then he stood on the ground and watched ya. And you went out and did some—figure eights or—I took—I went down to the old Bennett Airport to take my flight test and the guy had, he busted the airplane. He landed so hard, it…that it had spread the landing gear, distorted th—some of the tubing on the bottom side—we couldn't fly it anymore. So my instructor said, "C 'mon, we’ll go to Tri-cities and catch the inspector. He's down there—or he's going there. We'll catch him this afternoon and get you a flight test on another airplane." Which I'd never flown. A pusher-type airplane, Curtis Pusher. So he checked me out in the airplane and we went down there and he let me go in that airplane, and I flew it around the patch and made a few landings and done some turns around the water tower there, where the railroad track went through and they had a little stop there where they put on water. I turned around that tank and something else and came back and landed and he gave me my license. Next day, I took you for a ride. [laughter] Harold: That's the only time I ever flew out of that field down there. I flew with him. Wanda: And that was the Tri-Cities Field—the old Tri-Cities Airport that you’re telling about? Harold: They didn't call it “Tri-Cities” at that time. Harmon: It was known as Endicott Airport. Harold: It was Endicott Airport at that time. It was right along the road—by the—between the Main Street and the railroad tracks on the west side of Endicott. Harmon: The Endicott owned it by themselves. Johnson City and Binghamton were not in on it. It was just Endicott Airport period. Then when they moved to where they are now, some years later— Harold: There was no true runway or anything. It was just a field, you know, just a grass field is all. Harmon: At that time they didn't do any flyin’—they didn't plow the runways or nothing—they just forgot it. Harold: Most airplanes was open airplanes then, you couldn't fly much in the winter anyway—couldn't stand it. They closed 'em. Wanda: Have you ever done any chartering flights? Harmon: Yes. When we were at the airport full time makin' a living, we bought ourselves a nice Stinson. We bought it from Dr. Moore in Endicott. It was almost new. It was $3,000. We did a lot of charter work with that airplane. Harold: We lost that in the fire. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Yeah, we failed to say that in nineteen fifty—five? Coulda been right—we burned out over here. Harold: Four. Harmon: Fifty-four. We burned out over here and lost—practically everything we had. We had no insurance. Harold: Labor Day weekend. Harmon: We don't know actually what caused the fire, but there was a man there working on his air lane and he started it somehow. He never would say and we never made him. Smoking or with a, not covering a light bulb. So we started up again, with one little airplane, built it up again to where I had three airplanes and did—a lot of students then but it got too heavy for me with my job. And I wasn't about to quit a pretty good job and try to make a livin' flyin' again. Not off that airport anyway, so—gradually sold them off to one. Wanda: This airport, after it started in 1923, it was—there was a lot of activity here, wasn't there? Harmon: Yes. As I remember it being a kid coming up here, at times when they had the—like the Ford Air Show and the fly-ins, there was a lot of activity there. And they did a lot of charter work with those old airplanes out of here. I've heard Mr. Haskell, who is long deceased, tell about it. And they were actually good pilots in those days. They had some pretty good airplanes, too. Some of the business men of the area, of Chenango Bridge and Port Crane, put the money in the field and a—do you remember the names? Harold: Macomber was one of them. Wanda: Yeah, Theodore Macomber. Harmon: And there was another one— Harold: There was a fellow by the name of Rowe, R-O-W-E. Carl Rowe. Harmon: He was manager of the airport. Harold: He run the—he was the instigator of it, really. Harmon: And there was a man from Sanitaria Springs who had a lot of money, a lumber dealer. Wanda: Cushman, was it? Harmon: I believe so. Something like that. If it wasn't his name, it was something like it. Used to hear Mr. Haskell— Harold: I don't remember that one. Harmon: —tell us about him, tell his name. Harold: Do you remember Myron Baird? Harmon: Yeah. Wanda: Well what were some of the other activities that you remember about—any special stories you want to tell about it? Harold: You didn't get about Ed Link's flying signs on there, probably. Wanda: No. Let's do that. You said he had a—designed a—an advertising sign that— Harold: A—he'd a—dreamed it up and made, on a high-wing airplane he made a low wing out of square frames, about 8 or 9 or 10 of 'em. Each one would make a letter. And he used a paper roller out of his player piano. He was in the player piano business, his father was, Link pianos they made. He had the holes in that paper set up so that it would make a sign light up any letters that he wanted on it. He'd fly around at night and it would light up. I remember he had a contract with Spaulding's. He had enough letters to make the word SPAULDING across it. He'd light up SPAULDING, when it would go off he'd light up CAKE, go off and he'd light up CRULLERS, and go off. And he’d fly low over the city, see? And he took contracts in Cortland and Syracuse, and Philadelphia, and all around the country. I don't know if he had one for New York or not. But he had three of those airplanes fixed up that way at different times. That's what he was doin' for, for an income. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: The piano business was pretty bad. They gradually closed it up, but then he dreamed up the Link trainer which was half a player piano too. He invented that. Had the bellows that they used out of player pianos. Some bellows that moved different things—he had 'em to push the trainers around. That's what moved them around. He used a vacuum pump with suction and pressure to push them trainers. Harmon: When I learned to fly with Link he still had the piano factory down on Water Street and in this factory he had a room set up where he had ground school. And two of the trainers that he'd built. And they looked a little bit like an airplane. They had wings on 'em and a little fuselage, tail assembly. All worked, and before we soloed out we had to have time in those trainers. And I had so much on the instrument trainer, so much on the—we called it the “bump” trainer. You'd get in and turn it on. It would sit there for a second or two and then it would dive off one way and you had to correct, and on the wall he had a light. And on the nose of the trainer was a—tatting [sic]—what would you call it? Harold: Gun sight. A gun sight. Harmon: Yeah, like a gun sight, or a ring. And you'd look through that ring at that light and keep it in the light. And it would duck off sideways and you'd control it and bring it back and this was how you—it helped you to control an airplane after you got in the air. Harold: You were fightin' rough air to keep this thing on the target. Wanda: Well was it essentially the same feeling that you had in a plane? Harmon: A little bit. Yes. It helped. It…it did. Harold: The nose went up or down and the wings went up or down. It rocked both ways on both axles. And turned also—three axles. Harmon: But it was from the pianos that he designed this. And this—like Harold said—later on was the C-3 'blue box' as the military called it, and they built a tremendous amount of 'em for all the countries in the world used them, that were in the War. Harold: They put a hood over the thing so you couldn't see out, with instruments in it. Simulated instruments. Harmon: I'm pretty sure, certain it was before World War II that Ed Link and his wife went to Japan and the Japs bought some of them. Harold: Yeah, they bought two or three of them. Herb Chamberlain went over there. Wanda: Might have had a pretty good market over there. Harold: It's just hearsay, but they said Herb Chamberlain went over there and the Japs had taken one of them trainers completely apart—every piece out of it, and they couldn't get it back together again. He went over there and worked on it to get it, to get to work again. Wanda: We could have lost the War. Did he make some of those early trainers in Cortland, did you say? Harmon: Yes. He sort of got disenchanted I think, with the city of Binghamton. They gave him a rough time, this area did. Mobil Oil was one of them. He wouldn't buy Mobil no how, for many, many years, because they gave him a rough time. I guess he owed them some money, couldn't pay it and they wouldn't go along with him. But anyway he left here, went to Cortland and was up there several years. He left this area while I was learning to fly and I followed him to Cortland and drove up there and flew his airplane for two or three years in completing what education I got from Link's school. And a—while there he progressed rapidly as we moved into World War Il and made many many trainers there and probably got his first financial footing there. Got really started there. Then— Harold: He moved back down here on the corner of Gaines and Front Street. Wanda: Gaines? Harold: Yeah, on the corner of Gaines St. and Front St. He had that factory in there and that was about—just before the War and they had a big contract. That Casey Jones in New York was involved in it. Sold them a military contract and they were instrument trainers. They were all instrument trainers, nothing else. They made a lot of improvements. They had a fellow by the name of Lokrantz. Gunnie Lokrantz was an electronics wizard and he was from I.B.M., but Link hired him and he had a lot to do with it. I used to go down there nights. I was a sign painter and I lettered their crates for them. Ship them all over the world. He had me put the letters on the crates by hand, you know, to send them out. They had big wood boxes, like piano boxes you know? Big ones with parts of the trainer in 'em. Harmon: That was the old Red Dot cigar factory on the corner. Wanda: Corner of Gaines and Front. Harmon: There's a bar and grill or something in now—now Front St. is off—you couldn't go that way. He moved from there over in—I guess it was the Hubbard, Eldridge and Miller furniture factory. Over on the Brandywine dump. It was built where the dump was or after the dump was in there. It used to go down through the hollow there across the creek and over to that factory. And it was a large flat brick building and he moved into that from Gaines St. and then from there he moved on up to the old—truck factory down here. Larrabee Truck in Hillcrest. Wanda: Oh, that's where Larrabee Truck was. Harold: I remember when they built Larrabee trucks there. I remember seein' 'em. They weren't much good, but they built quite a lot of them. Harmon: Well. We say they weren't much good, but for their day, they were…they— Harold: They had a chain drive on the rear wheel, some of 'em did. Chains—like a bicycle chain only a big one—on the side, you know? Sprockets on 'em. Gwenn [Mrs. Harmon Johnson]: Isn't that one sitting down here on the Brandywine? Harmon: No, that's a Lynn. That's a crawler-type truck. It has crawlers on the back and a—wheels in front. Lynn Tractor of Morris. Harold: World War II vintage, or something like that. Harmon: Lynn Tractor built quite a few of those in World War II and then they stopped. Wanda: Well then, to get back to this airport, have you covered just about everything on activities that went on around here? Do you remember any of the show pilots or stunt pilots, and that sort of thing? Can you speak about the Waco—that was Waco Taperwing? Harold: That Taperwing? Cy Bittner was traveling around the country with that one to all the air shows. Harmon: He was the airline’s pilot—or airmail pilot. Airlines weren't flying yet. He was the airmail pilot and he worked out of Albany. And on his time off he used to go around the country to the air shows doing aerobatics and he had this airplane all fixed up with chrome wires and real fancy. He was an expert pilot. He was—finished himself off long ago. Harold: There's some more of them pilots used to come here. I can't remember their names. I remember that one—with Harold Johnson with the Tri-motor Ford, that I saw perform in Syracuse, but— Wanda: Did you say something about Roscoe Turner—being here? Harmon: Yes. Back prior to our being over at the airport and I was up here on a bicycle, I guess—I was not old enough to even fly yet—they had the Ford Air Tour went across the nation. And it stopped at Chenango Bridge Airport. And it's possible at that time it was called the Binghamton Airport— Harold: Yeah, it was. Harmon: —because there was no airport at Bennett Airport or Tri-Cities either, this was it. It was the first airport around here. And a, Roscoe Turner was in the group flying a Gee-Bee. All of their airplanes were designed to fly out of small airports. Today our airport is awfully small. For the airports, or airplanes that are built, built today, our airport is too small, for most of them. They need concrete runways and a lot of it. Wanda: Yeah. How long are these runways now? Harmon: Twenty-one fifty is our longest runway. Wanda: Mmhmm. That's the East-West. Harmon: Yeah. Harold: You can't do much nowadays with less than Three-thousand or Thirty-five hundred. Minimum, ya know. That's what Tri-Cities is: Three-thousand. 3000. Wanda: There's no way to expand here any more is there, either? Harmon: No. It costs a lot of money. Unless you get Federal money or Federal help, it's pretty near impossible to run an airport today. Many, many little airports around the country are going by the wayside. They can't survive. Taxes are so high on the land and a—they get no help from anybody. It's open to the public but they don't want to put one dime in it, unless it's owned by the public. If it was a—a community-owned airport, like the—if Chenango Bridge or the town owned it, then you could get Federal aid. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: But we can't have—get one dime. And, uh, now that we don't operate it commercially…why, it's almost impossible to make it run. My buildings are in bad shape. My equipment is old and I'm gettin' old. Harold: Boy, how prices have changed on—like aviation gas. Wanda: Oh, yeah? Harold: Boy, we used to buy a barrel for what you can buy five gallons for now. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: Well, not quite that bad, but— Wanda: The gasoline itself has changed a lot, probably, too. Harold: Yeah. We used to buy an aviation-grade fuel. It came in steel, fifty-gallon barrels from Atlantic. Harmon: About $10.00 a barrel. Harold: $10.00 - $11.00 a barrel for 55 gallons. And it was very good gas, wasn't it? Harmon: It was. Harold: Never any water—I can't think what octane it was. Seems like it was 75, or something like that. Harmon: It was low. Harold: It was nothing like nowadays, but a, you could put your hand in it, take it out, it would dry it up white, right quick. Very volatile. It would evaporate fast, you know? Well we'd get it in fifty-gallon drums, and pour it through a chamois with a funnel into the airplane. Wanda: Yeah. Harold: Chance. Harmon: Gasoline today I'm getting 87 cents over here and I'm under some of the other airports around. I guess I'm about 5 cents a gallon under. Harold: Sure. I'm sure down around New York it would bring you a dollar a gallon for fuel. Harmon: Today it's pretty close to that. Wanda: Well, I'm trying to think what we haven't covered by now. Harold: I remember that guy at Atlantic. He, he was the one—Ziegler was his name or something like that? Harmon: Yeah? Harold: He'd order up two or three barrels of gas for us. They'd keep sending it up by truck and he'd set 'em off, ya know. The old big steel barrels. They were galvanized, rounded barrels. They were not like these you see now, that are straight sides, you know. They used to be rounded like a—they were galvanized, they were heavy barrels. But they were a gasoline barrel. I remember being up in Canada with a Sea-Bee and having to go get me one of them with a station wagon and bring it in—hundreds of miles. Back in— Wanda: Is that right? Harold: —for gasoline for a Sea-Bee, you know. Harmon: A good four place airplane today, equipped as it should be, minimum I'd call a good airplane about fifty-thousand. If you've really got the money you can go up—better than a hundred in a little four place airplane. So it's just got outta hand as far as the average man who is concerned to buy his airplane to fly unless it's business, something like that. And that's what the people that are doing most of the flying, I think, in buying airplanes today are small business or business people, because—they write that airplane off. Wanda: There's—there's not the fun for young people, either, to go into it. Harmon: No. No. Harold: So many restrictions in flying now. You gotta have radio gear. You can't even go into Broome County without a radio, you know? Wanda: Is that a fact? Harold: You can't get to New York or Washington or Chicago any more without a lot of radio gear. Wanda: When did you first start getting into the radio a—requirements? When did you—what kind of radio equipment did you— Harold: World War II, they got some of it. Wanda: Mm-hm. Harold: And I was teaching instrument flying on Army and Air Force programs, and the radio was the old-fashioned, low frequency radio. They had a, a radio beam and you, you made instrument approaches and everything with it. That's what I was teaching, you know. After the War they came out with the new UHF, or VHF it was at first. The OMNI which is very popular yet today. There's a lot of big improvements in it, but. That static created—the old ones, when you had a thunder shower your radio went out, ya know. It was real crazy 'cause the static would just drive it right out if you had a thunder shower. Harmon: A little trainer today, just coming out new by Piper and it looks like it was going to be pretty popular, two-place, one hundred and eight horsepower, low-wing, canopy top, nice visibility out of it, comfortable airplane to fly in—the minimum is $20,000.00. Harold: Just a two-place. Harmon: That's just two-place. And it's a very small airplane. Isn't fast. It isn't an airplane that you would buy to go somewhere with, it's strictly a training airplane. Or for someone to fly on Sunday or something if you want to go for a little ride around the airport. But to get up into a good four-place family airplane, fifty grand—about the cheapest. Harold: In about 1954—ah—G.A.F. got a new Bonanza. It cost what—eleven or twelve thousand? Harmon: Twelve thousand. Harold: And it was a beautiful airplane. I flew it four hundred hours, something, for them. I remember a trip to Los Angeles and back with it, but that airplane, today, would be at least fifty-thousand, wouldn't it? Harmon: Uh-uh. It's over a hundred. That airplane today is a hundred and nine thousand fully equipped. I've been reading about it recently. Harold: It was listed like—twelve—thirteen thousand or something when they bought it. It was brand new, they got it from up there to Rochester from a dealer. Harmon: So this is what's happened to the aviation industry. Harold: It's priced itself off the market. Wanda: Yeah, for a smaller operator like you are, you're just not going to be able to survive. Harold: You can't do it. You, you can't—have a hundred-thousand dollar airplane and rent it out. Wanda: Yeah. Just like everything else, it's getting too big. Harmon: You’ve gotta be big business today to—to make a go and we have an example of that. A fellow in Endicott at Tri-Cities Airport was an engineer in IBM Owego. Got interested in flying, got all the licenses and so on. He left—got a leave of absence for the year from IBM. He got money to back him, they built a big hangar at Tri-Cities Airport, he's got a—is a Cessna dealer today. He's doing real well, but he deals in big airplanes. He sells to corporations around. I don't know how he does it, but he—he sold a twin-engine airplane to someone in Washington, D.C.—a brand new one, a 410-Cessna, which runs $300,000. Harold: He's making it in sales, not the operation. Harmon: Right. He's not making it on the operating, strictly sales. He's a salesman, he's got people working for him and somehow he sells airplanes. Harold: An outfit in Reading there, did that and did real well. They—two brothers and I used to know 'em. Wanda: You—you a—rent space in your hangar now? Harmon: Yes. I have ten airplanes on the field, counting my own, and this is how it keeps running. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: If it wasn't for the hangar rent and the little sale of gasoline and so on it would fold up, and Haskell's would plant corn there. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: I have to give Haskell's, of course, more than half of what I take in and I—what's left over, it's pretty hard to make the thing run on that. I have to maintain the buildings and a they don't touch it. Wanda: Mmm. The overhead and all that is your responsibility. Well, I would hate terribly to see the Chenango Bridge Airport go out of business. It's been a landmark for a long time. Harmon: It's been here a long time, and ah— Harold: Sooner or later it's bound to happen. Harmon: Its days are numbered, I'm sure. As we know, Haskell's gave up the retail milk business this year. OK, how long they'll stay at the wholesale, let's call it, that they're in now, no one knows. Ah. They get pretty discouraged and I'm sure all farmers do and have over the years, as anybody else in business does, but a—who knows how long it lasts? Maybe I’ll give up before they do. I don't know. I get pretty exasperated, too, trying to run the place and— Harold: You don't make any money on it and it's foolish to be tied up to it. Harmon: We do an awful lot of work for nothing, you know, for that thing. Gwenn: Find time to go fishing spring and fall. Wanda: Right. But go by plane and enjoy that part of it anyway. Well, I want to thank you. Harold: You and Charlie don't go on fishing trips, do you? Wanda: Not much anymore but I—we're just about of time here. Harold: I just brought some pictures over to show Harm. Wanda: I want to thank you very much, and for your hospitality, and I hope we can maybe do this again. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson Subject The topic of the resource Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Description An account of the resource Harmon and Harold Johnson describe learning to fly in the early 1930s under the direction of Edwin Link. They operated the Chenango Bridge Airport. They discuss the requirements for licensing, and progressing to commercial, transport, and instructor's ratings. The brothers also discuss various aircrafts they have flown, working as pilots for corporate businesses, and how post WWII affected their operation. They operated a dealerships for Aeronca and Piper airplanes. They talk about changes in flying school, air shows and stunt pilots who visited Chenango Bridge, and how the airport's usefulness has declined due to modern developments in aviation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 36 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson, Harmon ; Johnson, Harold ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-31 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:31 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fae5e8c3dc1101b635850789aeb00a19.jpg 48f954797628c95227b50d19fb635186 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5d45b2dac1e54b653beb17f29e3d9d41.jpg b719d032b5af087a359d7a56e9d24c7c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23f6e15657293bc2201a050d6512df91.jpg 58c11caf2deaba314563226eeb766ce2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1fbf0507d143257ccb7f6f9a44cfc07c.mp3 e5fe76f3b65d75f4bb4390a3fa6797f7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bloomer,Harry Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Bicentennial; Uncle Sam; Blinky the Clown Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:23 Seconds ; 33:45 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56063">Interview with Harry Bloomer</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interviewed with: Harry Bloomer Interviewed By: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 03/16/1978 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil, and speaking with Harry Bloomer. 263 Main Street, Johnson City. The date is March 16, 1978. This interview is being, taking place at Wilson Memorial Hospital in Johnson City, where Mr. Bloomer is a patient. Will you start out giving me the, the date and...where, the place of your birth, a little of your childhood days, why you came to Johnson City, and while in Johnson City or in this locale, how you earned your living? Harry: Well, well, I mean, I came to Johnson City when I was a small boy. I lost my Dad and my Dad put me away, and so, ah, my Mother didn’t want me. So, when I got to a certain age, after I got to a certain age, then I got transferred to another institution, and I ran away from that one. And then I, then...then the depression came on, so, I…depression come on, so I was, I couldn’t read, couldn’t write. It was just my own name, so I joined, ah, joined the Army. And, ah, and [cough] after I joined the Army, why, I come out with an Honorable Discharge, and…and I, four years and seven months, I was in the Artillery first, then from the Artillery, I went to, ah, I went to the Medical Corps, and from the Medical Corps, and then I got discharged. And then I come home, and I couldn’t buy a job, so I’ve been a clown all my life. Used to clown up to the soldiers and every day that I could, and after I clowned up and everything. And then one day, they wrote a, couldn’t find the guy that was, that was going to be the Santa Claus. And, ah, so they couldn’t find him, so after, so they’re, so after the Chamber of Commerce, ah, got ahold of me. And after they got ahold of me, said, “I’m gonna make a Santa Claus out of ya.” I said, “Whoa, wait just a minute - difference between a Santa Claus and a difference between Santa Claus, and, eh, difference between, and, ah…a clown is between day, day, ah, day and night. Dan: Right. Harry: So… Dan: Okay. Harry: So, I said, “The difference between day, a day and night,” and ah, “What do you mean, you like children?” Well, I knew how to handle ‘em. “You’ve been a clown. And, eh, you know what…how to act with ‘em.” Stuff like that. I says, “Yeah, I know I do. But it’s, difference between, ah…” I says, “Well, I’ll try it.” So, I says, “You got a suit?” He says, “No, I haven’t got a suit. But,” he says, uh, “we’ll get you one.” And he got me one, and it was the worst one I ever saw. It was handmade, and it was a rubber mask, with a, a hot cotton, batten beard on it. And it was the hottest thing I’d had ever got ahold of. And I begin to like it, and so, happen next year, so I says, “Well," I says, who’ll be it next year?” “Well, you did such a good job, we’re going to let you have it.” Then I found out where this school was in Albion, New York. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And, ah, so I went to Albion, New York, and I, I said, “Is this the place where you get your, your wig and beard?” He says, “Yes, this is the place. But I only got one left - I’m going to New York, but I guess I can wait on you.” So, he says, “You want that wig and beard real bad, don’t ya?” I said, “Sure, I really want it, no matter what the price is; I don’t give a care. I want the suit, and I want the wig and beard.” So, Charlie showed me how to put it on, and he said to me, ah, and he said, and Charlie says, I kept feeling my pocket, looking at the suit; feeling my pocket, looking at the suit. “You really want that,” he says. “Really want it?” “Charlie,” I said, “I’m not married and nobody has to bawl me out when I come home. ‘How much money did you spend?’ And, ah, ‘What kind of, what kind of good time, good time did you have?’ and stuff like that. And if I come home broke…well, that’s my business ‘cause I’m all by, I’m all by myself.” And so, I went then and bought the suit and brought it home. And Charlie says, “If you, if you’re gonna make it your professional out of it, I’d advise you to have two, two suits in case of an accident - the show, it gotta go on.” And I said, “By the way, Charlie, what do you use for your makeup for your face?” He says, “See, you’re a better salesman than I am. Well,” he says, “You, ah, need three things - your powder. Use, ah, a white lead pencil. And, uh…when you use rouge, and then you, then you use your mirror. Mirror. And you take your time putting it on, in mirror - you don’t plaster it on. When, when you take your…you put it over your eyes, you don’t plaster it on. You just go very, very lightly. Very lightly. Like you just come in, out of, out of the cold ‘cause your face been frostbitten or something. And then on your face, you put rouge. And after you rub that all off, you rub that all off because, uh, it makes you look pas- you come in with rosy cheeks. And so, uh…then, then...then I, ah, I floated around. I went 25 years to that school. And one year, 25 years [inaudible], and, well, I, I took sick. I didn’t want to miss the school, but my Doctor said I’d better, I’d better miss it this year, then I might be alright the next year. So, I said, “Okay, whatever you say, Doc.” So, I, I missed it. And the day the school opened, I cried like a baby [begins crying] because I never missed a year. Dan: 25 years? Harry: Yeah. My profession. Dan: And this was the school in Albion? Harry: Albion…it was in Albion, but it was- Dan: Pardon? Harry: It’s in Bay City, Michigan now because Charlie died, see. Dan: Now you talk about - what’s Charlie’s last name? Harry: Charlie W. Howard. Dan: How do you spell that last name? Harry: You know what? I never went to school, so I couldn’t tell ya. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah… Sue: Howard. Dan: Howard. Sue: H-O-W-A-R-D. [spelling] Dan: Okay. Harry: So anyway, through going up there, and he said, “Don’t worry, Harry. You’re not gonna lose any time for it because you’re, you’re a real goodness, professional Santa Claus. And when I mean you do it…you don’t come up here for thanks just to put it on to scare the kids or give them a lot of hooey or stuff like that; you tell ‘em the truth. And, and you’re willing to…what you learn.” So, I went up the year after I took sick and I said this really…I can’t remember her name, but anyway, she was my nurse and she took me all around, and she really stuck by me, and she still sticks by me. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And, ah, then I hear…ah, I called him up again this year one time, and I said, “They’re gonna make me again, Charlie.” “Well, no, you’re not gonna…you’re not gonna lose anything over it because you, you’re always…you know your business.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, anyway, come home…and, ah, when I come home from there, a guy comin’ over, a guy come over to my my house one night from the newspapers. And he wanted, ah, tape…tape a couple of tapes off how, how I got to be a Santa. “Well,” I says, “There’s all my books here, there’s over 35 books of pictures of everywhere I go, everything I take. And when I’m not playing Santa Claus, I’m playing Blinky the, Blinky the Clown at the Pairs.” I used to work at the grandstand and sell apples and peanuts and stuff like that. I sell ‘em, “Here, here comes the lousy peanut man, trying to get rid of them just as fast as he can.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And then one woman said to me one day, “What have ya got?” I says, “I’ve got candy apples; they’re dipped in glue; a couple of worm holes; it’s all up to you; sweet on the outside; sour on the in; the red gets all over your chin.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Then I’d come back the next day: “Hey, you’ve got nothing but popcorn.” “Oh, yes - I have,” says I, [inaudible] and I came to spend my rotten corn. “Last year a kernel, this year a pop; when we get to you, it won’t be so hot.” And, ah…one woman says, “Ya talk like that all the time.” And I says, “Yeah. If I don’t get ya, my voice will; I’ll get your money before you get over the hill.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: And she says, “See? You’re not only a poet like that,” and when you write it in the paper and it says, “He’s not only a poet, but he’s also a politician.” And so, the kids one day, says, “Hey, Santa. How’d you get here with no snow?” “I fly high and I fly low; and I find land; that’s how I go.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Now…[inaudible] And then this family says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I said, Yes, I brought Rudolph.” But I says, ah…hm, “He won’t want to go this year.” “Why not?” “Did you ever see a deer go why, why, without snow?” “No.” “Well, then Rudolph won’t go.” Dan: Hm. Harry: But, I…next year, I told ‘em I’d try to play it again as, as...as sick as I was. And so, ah, I put my outfit and suit on - played, ah, quite, ah…clubs, and the big clubs and stuff like that. And did my best. And then they says, “Hey, did you bring Rudolph this year?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “But I’m having trouble.” “What you mean?” I said, “Tricky Dick won’t give me no gas; I can’t get the helicopter off the grass.” Dan: [lightly chuckles] Harry: And I says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I says, “Yeah. I can’t use, use him, either.” “Well, why can’t ya?” “‘Cause,” I says, “Tricky Dick, he, he shut off the lights; can’t light up his nose…” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: “Can’t see which way he goes.” Dan: “Uh-huh.” Harry: “I, I hope Tricky Dick is out of the office ‘cause next time, everything will be, will be alright.” And this year I tried to play…I said, “Well, don’t gang me this year because Santa Claus is in tough shape.” One little boy came to me: “What do you mean, ‘tough shape’?” I says, “Yeah, I brought Rudolph, but he’s awful mean this year. Terrible mean.” Dan: Yeah. Harry: “What do you mean?” I says, “Awful mean.” I says, “I went up to feed him…when I went out to feed him, he hauled right off from me, and he kicked me. So, I can’t let nobody sit on my lap th-…for this year.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I said, “You’re not mad at Santa because you can’t sit on Santy’s lap?” “Oh, no.” I said, “We’ll find him just the same.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And like that. So, I went through my act the best way I could. And I got bleeding, and… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: …Sick again. And they… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And they put me back in. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And that was my Santa Claus days. Dan: Whe-where were you born, Harry? Harry: I was born in Cortland. Dan: Cortland? Harry: Uh, yeah. I was born in Cortland. Dan: Now, you mentioned your Dad put you away. Harry: My Mother put me away. Dan: Your Mother put you away…away, where? Harry: In a home in Cortland. Dan: In a home in Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Dan: For, for, uh, children? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see. Harry: And then, uh…I started a certain age, they put me up on the Hudson to a feeble-minded home, and people said, “What is that guy? Is he a nut?” “Well,” I says, “If I’m, if, if I’m not, if I’m a nut, I’m a tough nut if I was cracked.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And I said, “I make, what do you make?” I says, “You’re making a lot of noise.” I says, “I…I’m making a buck or two.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “So, make all the noise that’s…and call me anything that you want.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “‘Cause I’m making a buck between as a nut.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “And if you want to learn what I do, I’m a member of a trade.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And so… Dan: Mm-hm. Now, uh, you mentioned the Chamber of Commerce wanted you to play Santa Claus. What Chamber of Commerce? Harry: In, in Johnson City. Dan: In Johnson City - how did you happen to come from - uh, where was this? The…? Harry: This was after the War. Dan: Yeah, but you - where was it on the Hudson that you were…? Harry: Up on the Hudson. Dan: Yeah - how, how did you to-? Harry: That’s good news: I ran away from that place. Dan: You ran away from there, and how did you happen to come to Johnson City? Harry: Well, I worked my way toward home. Dan: Towards Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Yeah, ‘till I found my folks and then my folks didn’t want me. I couldn’t find a job, so I…I picked up my own work. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Mowing lawns, and anywhere I could pick up a penny here or a penny there, and try to make people happy. Dan: Right. Now, you appeared, of course, before a lot of groups and organizations as Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Now, did you go to individual houses? Harry: Mm-hm. Dan: Were you out for hire? Harry: Um-hm. Dan: And what was your busiest season? I mean, was it the week before Christmas? Harry: It…it was, ah, Christmas Eve night. Dan: Christmas Eve night. Now, you weren’t - you, you don’t drive a car, do you? Harry: No, I don’t drive. Dan: Now, how did you get from house to house? Harry: Well, I had a good driver. I decorated my sleigh all up, and I named, and I named him, “Rudolph.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I says, “Well, Rudolph is now all ready for a night.” Then, we keep the same addresses every year. Sometimes we get new ones, sometimes old, younger ones are growed out of it. And so, I always had new ones coming in. Dan: But, I mean, how did you get from one house to another? Harry: In the car. Dan: In the car? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see…uh-huh. And, ah, Harry, would you mind telling me, I mean, how much you got for each one of your performances - I mean, to go to a residence? You know, to play Santa Claus? Harry: Well, sometimes I got nothin’. Dan: Sometimes, you got nothing. Harry: I didn’t get a penny. Dan: Is that right? Harry: But it ain’t, it ain’t for the penny. Dan: It’s, it’s…that’s right - it’s self-satisfaction. Mm-hm. Ah, what awards have you had, geh, Harry? Harry: Well, the highest award I ever had was, ah, was, ah…Red Ruby. Dan: Red Ruby? Harry: Red Ruby. From the Santa Claus school - I went there for 25 years. Dan: That’s in Albion? Harry: Mm-hm. Yeah. Dan: Uh-huh…now, what is the Red Ruby award? Harry: Well, Red Ruby stands for everlasting fire that never goes out. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: For the, for the good deeds you did. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Towards other people. Dan: Uh-huh. Now, during the Bicentennial year, you, as I understand, you portrayed Uncle Sam. Harry: Yes. I went out, crazy enough. I went out, tried, bought myself an Uncle Sam suit. But, I didn’t have no beard at first. Dan: You’ve still retained the beard, haven’t you? [laughs] Harry: Yeah. Somebody, somebody said, “Hey, Uncle Sam’s supposed to have a beard.” I says, “I, I know that.” I says, I says, “Don’t worry about it.” I says, “I’ll put my razor away. And I’ll see what, then I’ll see what Uncle Sam will do.” First thing I know, it come out a perfect white and shaped right up - didn’t have to color it, tie it, or nothing. So, I said, “Here comes Uncle Sam; dirty old man; takes your money as fast as he can.” Dan: [laughs] Harry: “Takes your money and takes your dough - won’t give it back, where you go.” Hello. What do you want? [Interruption over Public Address system] Dan: Um, Harry, is there anything else that you’d like to tell me? You had a banquet here some time ago that the notables of the Triple Cities put on for you, honoring you for your- Harry: Well… Dan: -public service. Harry: Well, when I got out of the hospital. Dan: This was, what? About a year ago? Mm-hm. Harry: And I didn’t know nothin’ about it. Dan: It was a surprise party. Uh-huh. Harry: [crying; words inaudible] -light up the trees. And then they, they presented me with a live Christmas, Christmas tree. Dan: A live Christmas tree? Harry: Yeah, in the park. Dan: I see. Harry: So, then I told ‘em…I says, “Well, I tell you all,” I says, “When the tree gets big and tall, you can come in and decorate it all.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: So, I says, “Now, you’ve got a swing out there.” And I says, “When, uh…when the tree begins to, to grow,” I said…I said, “Out in the…out in my swinging, and now, and I’ll watch it grow.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I told ‘em. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And so, I always had little ditties, little poems here for different people- Dan: Uh-huh. Harry -and stuff like that, you know? Dan: Were there any other characters that you portrayed other than Santa Claus, Blinky the Clown, and Uncle Sam? Harry: Well, the real ones was the…see, I’ve been a clown all, all of my life. And then I came in, in on the Santa Claus deal…and then, then...then I was up, I was up to Albion. Charlie said to me, “You outta, you outta make a good, eh…Easter Rabbit.” “A rabbit?” I says. “Whaddaya mean, a rabbit?” He says, “You make such a good Santy Claus…" Dan: [laughing] Harry: “…And you know how to act…you know how to [inaudible] without breaking into them, and you know not to talk when you don’t have to. So, you outta make darn good Peter Rabbit.” And so, I got the business for, of playing, uh, the Peter Rabbit for, for the Schweiners, and help to count them egg hunt Easter eggs. Stuff like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Sometimes, they’d give me something for it, and sometime they wouldn’t. But it all come from the heart. Dan: Yeah. Well, you, you’ve managed to be self-sustaining over all these, all these years, uh, Harry. Harry: Yeah. Dan: In spite of the fact that you can’t read nor write, I mean, I think you’ve done remarkable. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Is there anything else you’d like to add at all? Harry: Well, let’s see, uh… Dan: Is there any other awards that you received outside the Ruby award at the Albion? Harry: No, not exactly. Uh…some of the boys didn’t like me coming up there quite so many times - it took me 25 years. And Charlie - before Charlie died - he said, “If I know you, you’re gonna be the first man to walk out of this school with that Red Ruby on.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: He says, I said, “No, Charlie.” He says, “I’m telling ya.” He says, “Harry, if you’re not here - if you’re gone before I am - you’re gonna be the first man to walk out.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he says, “It’s because you’re gonna make a good Santa Claus.” Dan: Uh-huh. Now, when you went up there during these 25 years, when you returned, Harry, what did you do - teach the other…? Harry: Well… Dan: Fellas that wanted to, uh…the trade? Harry: Well, I wanted, I wanted to, to portray like that. If I still live and I get better, I might exactly do that. But, I, I never take away anybody else’s trade. Dan: I see. Harry: Never. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: If they wanna learn, they can spend their money like I did. Dan: Yeah. Harry: I’ll always be glad to help ‘em, explain it to ‘em, and tell them where they make their mistakes. If they don’t like it, then they can save their money, and they can, they can go up to the school. Dan: How much did it cost for you to go that school? Harry: Well, when I first went to school there it cost me 20, $125.00. And then they cut it down to, ah, $75.00 - try to get more men to come. Dan: Yep. Harry: That was a refreshing course. Dan: Yeah. Harry: And then they cut it down to 50. And he left it that way - left it, left it down to 50. Dan: I see. Harry: And, ah…and Charlie says, “Don’t let anybody kid ya, Harry, at all: You did this alone.” Dan: Mm-hm. How, how, uh, many weeks was the original course when you went there? Harry: [inaudible] -cost. Dan: When you went, when it was- Harry: Hundred- Dan: $125.00? Harry: Oh, it was about…it was about two weeks, it started. Dan: Two weeks? Harry: Yeah. Because, see, the school was just startin’ to be... Dan: Yeah. Harry: He, he just started buildin’ it. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: It was between Charlie (W-H-I) and, and, ah…and, and May. Maple Jone. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he, ah…got them together. And he, he got them together. And he went to New York, helping him all over. We went to Macy’s, he says, “Oh, my God. I,” he says, “I can’t find better-lookin’ Santa Clauses than that.” Heaven bets. And Macy says, “Why in the world don’t you start a school? And put better-lookin’ men in this, in, in this school?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “Better-looking Santa Claus?” And so I go around and check ‘em. I see a boy – a fellow with brown shoes and black puttees, and I said, “By the way.” I says, “Did you ever go to Santa Claus school?” And he says, “No, why?” Well, I says...ah, “Don’t you want to go to school?” “Do ya have to?” I said, “No, you...you don’t have to. It costs ya money no matter where you go; you’re never gonna take a penny with ya when you go... Dan: Mm-hm. Harry:...But you’ll be...[begins sobbing] Dan: Okay, that’s alright, Harry...ah... Harry: He, he killed that. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: I says, “Please think.” I says, “Playing Santa Claus; there’s not many that are very nice.”  So, what point they need is: “How much money you make playing Santa Claus? I looked at him, and I says, “Is that what you came up here for?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Make a little thing like that – go right back. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, I says, “You’ll never make a Santa Claus.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Says, “You mean to tell me you see a Santa every three or four over there, and some over there, that you hadn’t, haven’t the opportunity to charge...” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “...then you’d never be a Santa Claus?” Dan: Yep; right. Not from the heart. Harry: Right. Dan: Not from the heart. Okay, Harry, you think that’s about all you’d like to tell me today? Harry: Well, you like - that’s how I got to be Santa Claus. Dan: That’s how you got to be Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And sold peanuts and popcorn at the ballpark. Harry: Yeah. And he says, “Come and get your stinkin’, rotten peanuts!”  Dan: [Dan laughing] Harry: And said, “The longer you wait, the rottener they get.” I used to tell them that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: [unintelligible] Dan: Well, for the sake of the archives, ah, Harry, why don’t we get your nurse’s name here on tape? Harry: Um... Sue: Sue Romanaski. Dan: Sue? Sue: Romanaski. Dan: Romanaski. Sue: Mm-hm. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And you’re a nurse, are you, Sue? Sue: Yeah, I’m an RN. Dan: You’re an RN? Sue: Yeah. Dan: At the hospital here? Sue: At Ideal Hospital. I’m- Dan: Oh, at Ideal. Sue: When Harry was having his operation last October, I was a student nurse. Dan: I see. Sue: And I went through the operation with him and everything. Dan: Mm. And you stuck with him. Sue: Yep. Harry: Good. Sue: I used to go over and read his letters to him, write his mail, and take him shopping, and things like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Well, God bless you. Well, Harry, would you like me to play this back for ya? Harry: Yeah. Dan: Okay. Article: Tribute Paid to memory of ‘Mr. Santa Claus’ By: George Basler "God knows the world needs more Harry Bloomers." This statement by Bernard Fionte, news director of WNBF radio, summed up the feelings of many today toward Harry Bloomer, who for 36 years played Santa Claus for thousands of Johnson City children. [Image Caption: 'Mr. Santa Claus'. Depicts Harry Bloomer in his Santa Claus outfit, looking down at a piece of parchment held in his two hands.] Bloomer, 71, who was nicknamed "Mr. Santa Claus" because he played the role for so long, died yesterday at Wilson Memorial Hospital after a long battle with cancer. "He was one of the most irreplacable people I've known," said Fionte, who emceed a tribute to Bloomer at Johnson City High School in 1976. "I think it's a dreadful loss to the community." Bloomer was sick for more than a year, but until the very end he never gave up fighting. Last January he was still looking forward to playing Santa Claus for local children next Christmas. But, for the last week or so, Bloomer knew the end was near, his friends said. "I saw him last Wednesday night, and he had put his trust in God. He said God knows best," said the Rev. Richard D. Christen, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Johnson City, which Bloomer attended for more than 30 years. "He was a man of good faith with respect to the community, and he was a man of real faith with respect to God," Christen added. Another close friend, Patricia Morse, said, "I'm glad it's over. He had suffered too long, and he was too good to suffer.” At his request, Bloomer will be buried in his outfit of Blinky the Clown – a character he created during his years as a circus vendor. He also played Peter Rabbit and in the summer of 1976 appeared as Uncle Sam at area parades and celebrations in honor of the Bicentennial. But, in a recent interview, he said, "Way down deep in my heart, I think my favorite character is Santa Claus. It’s a lot of headaches sometimes, but I like to meet kids." He identified with the role so much that at one time he thought about being buried in one of his Santa Claus costumes. But, he decided against it because he said simply, "Santa Claus lives forever. " Why was Bloomer so dedicated to playing Santa Claus? Christen theorized part of this dedication stemmed from his lack of parental love as a child. His childhood was spent in orphanages where, because of a stutter, he was overlooked by teachers and never learned to read or write. He finally ran away from an institution at the age of 15. "Maybe he felt what he lacked as a boy, he could give to others," Christen said. While Bloomer became a local legend during his years in Johnson City, an Evening Press article in July 1976 discovered that few knew the man behind the gaudy costumes and outrageous trappings. For the last 12 years of his life, Bloomer lived in a small $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. He never married and never had any children. Ironically, the man who brought joy to so many persons at Christmas time usually spent his holiday alone. But, Bloomer never became bitter. He called the testimonial that local residents organized in November 1976 a high point of his life, and added, ''I didn't think I had so many friends, but I have a lot of them.'' Louis Augostini, who organized the testimonial, said he saw Bloomer 10 days ago at the hospital, and "he was preoccupied with expressing thanks to people for everything that's been done for him. “Of course, the real truth is that Harry did a lot for us," Augostini said.  "He was a very unselfish person. Playing Santa Claus was never a money maker for him. Maybe it just gave him a sense of pride to do something for the kids," Augostini added. Bernard Brown, president of the Johnson City Businessmen's Association, said Bloomer was "synonymous with Johnson City." "That was his life[,] to keep people happy...He was terrific. He'll be missed." Jean Kavulich, a friend of Bloomer's for more than 30 years, said simply, "He was the children's idol." Funeral arrangements are being handled by the J.F. Rice Funeral Home in Johnson City. Director James Carey said the home is expecting large crowds during calling hours this afternoon and evening. This evening the Frank A. Johnson American Legion Post, to which Bloomer belonged, will provide a special honor guard. The Last Man's Club (veterans of World War II) will also hold a special service at the home. Bloomer's funeral will be Saturday at 10 A.M. at First Baptist Church in Johnson City. His body will then be taken by a grandnephew, Terrence McCullough, for burial at a cemetery between Marathon and Cortland. McCullough was with Bloomer at the time of his death yesterday. But even though he's gone, Bloomer's memory will live on, his friends said. Morse said, “There is some talk of donating to Roberson Center one of Bloomer's Santa Claus suits and the certificates he received from the Santa Claus School in Michigan (a training school for Santa) that he attended for many years.” [Image caption: Harry Bloomer. Depicts Harry Bloomer facing the camera, garbed in his Uncle Sam costume, and walking up a city street.] For his part, Richard Barrons, curator of history at the center, said he'd welcome this donation. "Harry was a great inspiration to many people," Christen said. Morse noted simply, "He didn't play Santa Claus - he was Santa Claus.'' Article: Blinky the Clown will get the epitaph he wished for By: George Basler Thanks to the efforts of a friend, Harry Bloomer's final wish has come true. For 36 years Bloomer enchanted thousands of area children as Blinky the Clown and Santa Claus. He made a career out of bringing good cheer to others, and in the process became one of Johnson City's most beloved residents. Before he died last April, after a long battle with cancer, Bloomer made two requests: To be buried in his Blinky the Clown outfit because, he said, "As long as I've been a clown there's no harm in going out that way. I just might want to entertain someone on the other side.” And, to have a tombstone placed at his grave, with the simple inscription: "Here lies Blinky the Clown. Doesn't know if he's going up or down. He just has to leave town.” After Bloomer's estate was settled, there was no money left for the tombtone. [Image Caption: Harry Bloomer...in 1976. Depicts a portrait shot of Harry Bloomer in his Uncle Sam costume in a city environment; the white top hat is of prominence.] [Image Caption: Linc Haller polishes the tombstone of his friend, Horry Bloomer. Depicts Linc Haller squatting next to Harry Bloomer’s tombstone in a cemetary, which depicts an artist’s rendition of the character alongside the inscription that Harry wished for.] [Image Taken By: Frank Woodruff] But Howard L. "Linc" Haller, the former owner of the Binghamton-Johnson City Monument Co., remembered a promise he had made to his friend. "For the past 20 years Harry would see me in the post office or on the street, and he'd say, 'Don't forget when I die what I want on my tombstone.' It got to be an old story,” Haller said. “When he had his last sickness, I went up to see him in the hospital and promised him he’d get his wish.” ln July, Haller and Robert Traver, current owner[s] of the monument company, wrote Bloomer's grand-nephew in Syracuse for a picture of Bloomer in his Blinky the Clown outfit so it could be engrav d on the tombstone. They then ordered the tombstone, just like Bloomer wanted it from their factory in Johnstown. The tombstone arrived last week, and next week Haller and Traver will move it to Virgil, where Bloomer’s grave is. Haller made it clear he's not doing this for publicity, but because of the promise he made to Bloomer. He seemed embarrassed by the notoriety. ''Don't play me up too much,'' he said. "I told Harry he would have a marker, and that’s all there is to it.” The granite tombstone has the Blinky the Clown poem and the engraving of Bloomer in his clown costume on one side. On the other side is the simple inscription, “Harry Bloomer. 1907-1978." Haller acknowledged that some people might think the poem is inappropriate for a tombstone, but "that's just what Harry wanted.” And anyone who thinks it's inappropriate didn’t know Bloomer very well. Every Christmas for more than three decades the portly man, dressed in one of his three red[,] velvet suits and a fluffy white beard, walked the village streets handing out candy to the children. He also played Santa Claus for village merchants and clubs[,] and every year visited the Wilson Memorial Hospital pediatrics ward. Besides Kris Kringle, Bloomer also played Peter Rabbit, Uncle Sam during the 1976 Bicentennial, and Blinky the Clown, a character he originated during his years as a circus vendor at fairs thoughout the Southern Tier. He became known as "Mr Santa Claus,” but his own life was far from a fairy tale. A lifelong bachelor, Bloomer worked as a laborer and carnival barker. He spent his early years in an orphanage and his last years in a dingy, $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. Those who knew him said he loved children so much because he was so neglected during his own childhood. Despite the bad breaks life dealt him, Bloomer was a man who enjoyed life, Haller said. “He certainly made a lot of other people enjoy it, kids especially.” Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harry Bloomer Subject The topic of the resource Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Description An account of the resource Harry Bloomer discusses joining the Army as a young man and entertaining the soldiers. Upon being discharged he began working as a Santa Claus for local organizations and continued to do this for the rest of his life. He talks about attending a Santa Claus school annually. He was also a clown and was known as Blinky the Clown. During the Bicentennial he portrayed Uncle Sam. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. 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Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Land, Helen Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-05-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:47 Minutes ; 26:22 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55966">Interview with Helen Land</a> Subject LCSH Land, Helen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Electrification; Citizenship; Trolley cars; Bennett Family; Recreation Park; Ross Park; Dance class Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Helen Land Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 1 May 1978 Anna: Mrs. Land, tell me experiences. Mrs. Land: I was born in Binghamton, NY, 20th of June 1897 at Mill St. I lived there for a few months because the landlord had stipulated that he won't have no children—I think I was very vocal, so then we were asked to find some other place to move. We moved to Walnut St. and there my mother died when I was one year and a half old (1 ½ years) and from there I moved to Lincoln Ave. where my father and I lived with my father's brother and his wife and three children. His wife was a saint to take a year and a half old child in there with her three children and bring me up. I lived on Lincoln Ave. until I was 18 years old, and at that time I had gone to St. John Ave. School up to the 4th grade—then I transferred to Laurel Ave. school which is now Horace Mann. I had gone there to the 8th grade and then I had traveled to Binghamton Central High School where I had my freshman, sophomore years—and from there I went over to my junior and senior years which were spent at the Washington St. School which is now the Police Station, I believe while they were building the new building, which is now the old building.  I just, guess I just led the normal life of a high school girl and everything was very, very circumspect in those days. We had street cars but we didn't patronize them—we walked back and forth—if you had only a couple miles to walk, you didn't bother with streetcars. Our entertainments were very mild. We had parties in the evening but they were strictly supervised—they were generally in homes of our friends, from eight ’til maybe ten o'clock at night. On weekends we were lucky—we could go to Ross Park and see the entertainment over there. They, it was sponsored by the Street Railway Company. It was a beautiful park, up there—they had benches all up in the woods and it was desirable to get there early so you would get a good seat. The benches would hold six to eight people—then there was another bench for our feet, everything was very comfortable. The vaudeville acts—there would be six or seven of them—and they were really very first class entertainment—it was things that people later on became prominent in movies and I think it was probably before any of them became television stars—but, they, we did get some of the movies, also, the Casino was under the sponsorship—was owned by the City Railway. That was a lovely place to go, but that cost more, it was twenty five cents round trip—to go to Ross Park it was only a nickel, one way and we, I was married quite young and we had very nice places to go then to eat. We had our, my friends and I would go to the various places for lunch. I remember Fowler’s had the most beautiful lunch for 60¢, you wouldn't believe it—there was no tipping there and you could go and you could go and get a chicken salad and homemade rolls and butter and homemade chocolate cake. Fowler’s was famous for Emily Napp’s chocolate cake. The Arlington Hotel had a lovely dining room—the Bennett Hotel had a very nice dining room and there was a very nice place known, as the Grill on Washington Street—it was upstairs over the Walter Miller Store. It was a very small place, but the food was excellent and the people use to like to go there after they’ve been to the theater at night.  We had very good entertainment here—it wasn’t every night—it wasn’t like a movie or anything like that. We had Sousa's band, would come here and Walter Damrosch's band—they appeared at the old Stone Opera House and it was quite a nice place to go and very well patronized. When I was in high school there was a dancing class conducted at the Monday Afternoon Club by Professor Lamoreaux and his wife on Thursday afternoon. The girls came with silk stockings on and they carried their dancing in bags because we didn’t dance in the same shoes that we had worn to school—but, you always knew when it was dancing lesson day because the girls changed from the Buster Brown ribbed lyle stockings to silk stockings, and that was a very nice to go—you bought a ticket from them, I think it was $6.00 for 12 lessons—you sat around the floor, there—Mrs. Lamoureaux saw that there were no wallflowers—you would sit there hoping somebody would ask you to dance, and he would be chasing after the most popular girl—Mrs. Lamoureaux would come after him and make him come and dance with you—he was a little reluctant to do—but as I say it was a very quiet period in which to live and there was no, as I remember, there was no vandalism, no anything, people sat on front porches at night—called back and forth across the street to the neighbors, there was no familiarity. We lived in the same neighborhood, as I say, I've lived these for 18 years, as I say there was no moving—everybody owned his own home there, but there was no familiarity, always addressed your neighbors as Mr. and Mrs.—never said, “Hello, Fred,” or, “Hello, Minnie”—it was always, “Mr. and Mrs. Barnum.” We also got in on all the church picnics because there was a very a large church membership, there was Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists and then, one family of Universalists moved in the neighborhood—they were looked down on because they mowed their lawn on Sunday, and that was not considered the thing to do. You mowed your lawn through the week—you did not mow it on Sunday—but we found out they were good Christian people. The father was a lawyer and he was President of the Board of Education so we decided that maybe mowing the lawn on Sunday was not a Cardinal Sin but we got in all on all the church picnics because we would interchange and you would go to the Lutheran Picnic and in turn you would ask them to come to your Presbyterian Picnic and that way our summers were very nicely taken care of. We played croquet in the afternoon and we went skating. There was a skating rink over on Conklin Ave.—it was called Lyons Skating Rink and although we lived on Lincoln Ave. that was probably a good two mile walk to Lyons Skating Rink, it might have been longer, but we always walked—we would never think of taking a streetcar and transfer going up there and sometimes we would go twice a day—we would go on Saturday—we'd go in the morning and for 15¢ you could get a very nice ham sandwich and a bottle of ginger ale, they also, the people who owned Lyons Skating Rink, ran the George Hull Ice Cream Company and Confectionery Store on Court St. but we seldom spent 15¢. We would walk home and get our dinner and then walk back again in the afternoon. Our entertainments were not expensive but they were really very enjoyable. I have one daughter and two grandchildren and one great-grandchild. I have enjoyed having them brought up in the same neighborhood that I was, for as I went to St. John Ave. School, that had turned into Alexander Hamilton, when they went there—they followed us by going to West Junior, which was not in existence when I was young. I had gone to Horace Mann, but then they went to Central High School and my daughter went to Sweet Briar College. My grandson went to Wittenberg College in Ohio. My granddaughter went to Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs and I have one great-grandchild. We are all living approximately the same area that we did when we were brought up and that is very nice because, I have forgotten the generation has gone by so quickly. I think, I really say, I knew your grandmother well, then I'd say it was your great-grandmother that I knew, that I was in school with. My husband died in 1948 and I had my own apartment until I just felt a little inadequate to coping with that. I was fortunate enough to be admitted in the Good Shepherd Fairview Home. I was still ambulatory and able to take care of my own room and make my own bed and change my own bed and I'm getting marvelous care and treatment here, I have a beautiful room, nobody could really find any fault with it. I am a very happy, 80 year old great-grandmother who’s about to be 81. It has not been a very productive life, but it has been an extremely happy one.  I used to go to my grandfather's in Greene. Father took me up there every Sunday on the Utica Train and we would leave here, early in the morning, sometimes very early in the morning, and I can remember traveling with the minimum of fare until I was about seven years old. One day the conductor said to my father, "How old is that child?” Father said, "Seven.” You'll have to pay, half fare for her now—then when I got to be 12 or 13 they discovered that I should be paying full fare. My maternal grandmother, grandfather lived on Wilson St. Father used to take me there Sunday afternoons to call on him. We used to have to cross the railroad tracks at Jarvis St. and I was terrified of those tracks. I don't know how many tracks there were—seems to me there were 8 or 10 of them there. I don't suppose there were that many, but there was a flagman there at Jarvis St., and he, if there was a train coming or going, he would come out with his little flag and wave it. I was not very speedy, I was bowlegged, and it was very hard for me to run and when we got half across I wanted to stay with the flagman until all the flags were clear. We went to Lily Lake which is now State Park—before the days of automobiles, you hired a horse and buggy from Seamon's or Sigler's Delivery Stables and sometimes, there were, I believe there were two four seated ones, but you had to get your name in early if you wanted the four seated ones—you took your whole family up to Lily Lake or a picnic and you took all equivalents for a beautiful picnic up there.  There were no colleges here in Binghamton, such as the Broome Community College and State University but Cortland Normal was near and Oneonta Normal wasn't too far. My mother was a graduate of Oneonta Normal—she taught school—my grandmother, my maternal grandmother taught school. My paternal grandmother went to Cazenovia Seminary and she never taught school. They must have given them a wonderful education in the little school they had then but I suppose the Cazenovia Seminary School was equivalent to a prep school—today a boarding school, because she was certainly a very literate woman and a very accomplished artist. I had no skills, whatsoever. I've always said that if my mother had lived I would have learned to cook and to sew and to do everything because according to legend, my mother was very clever. I always meet with the retort, “but I guess if you wanted to you could have learned how.” Apparently, I let someone else do it for me. I lived a good long life letting somebody else do things, and I'm continuing to do so. Anna: What did your husband do? Mrs. Land: He was the Secretary of Kilmer and Co-Secretary of Binghamton Press—also, he was a Canadian. I did have one jolting experience. I did not know, well in fact, it wasn't true when I married him I didn't lose my American citizenship, although he was a Canadian citizen. L went to be a character witness back in 1940, I guess for a Canadian who wanted to get her American citizenship. I found out I lost my citizenship in marrying an Canadian—I protested vigorously and I had stapled to my Marriage Certificate a notice in the paper that people marrying friendly aliens between April 1917 and October 1922 did not lose their citizenship. I had married at that time—I had been married in October 1917 which gave me a perfectly clear footing but that ruling had been rescinded so, I was voting illegally but I didn't it know it, so, I had to go and be repatriated to the hilarity of all my friends. I think they thought my husband was a Secretary of the Press, they thought it was a good joke to put great big headlines that I was repatriated and all of my friends came to me and said, "What do you mean? You were born here, how come you had to be repatriated?" Miss Eleanor Smith, who was the County Clerk at that time, said, "Don't feel so badly, there are many people voting illegally, they don't realize that the law was rescinded." I said, “Well, it certainly humiliated me very much,” publicized that, as I say I've had a very— At the time I was born was the one, I think McKinley had just come into the office. I remember, although I was between three and four, I think, he was assassinated in 1901. This was before I went to school but I can remember all the publicity about it. Of course, before the days of television and radio and things of that sort, but there were pictures in the newspaper and the assassin had worn his hands wrapped up in a handkerchief. We went around the neighborhood with our hands wrapped in a handkerchief and banged, banged at everybody around there before we went to school. I say, I've been a lifelong Republican, but I'm a kind of freelancer—I vote more for the man than I do for the party. I've been that way all my life. Anna: Can you think of anything else? Mrs. Land: My daughter has been active in all the things I didn't do, she seems to have done. I was on the board of the Girl's Club for many years and I enjoyed that—I was on the health board on YWCA and to the amusement of my family, I was also on the Municipal Recreation Board, they never could understand why I was on that. I was on the, that Family Children Services and I've enjoyed all of these because they were my friends, who were on the boards, and we all thought alike. I've seen many of the people come and go, and here I have many friends, there are 19 members from my church in this home where I live now, the West Presbyterian Church, there are 19 members here. The Circle came the other day and put out a lovely tea for us. I was surprised, to find there was so many members here, but we are really kind of like a family here, and didn't—people said, “It will take you a long time to adjust.” It wasn't a question of adjusting, because I knew many people in here, and I, just felt how lucky I was to have my meals prepared for me, and, cleaning and to have everything done for me. My daughter and grandchildren are very active in the church. They live here, my great-grandson is the 7th generation, in that, church and anyway my daughter is a member here at Fairview. Today, the receptionists came in and brought me a dear little wicker basket, saying, “Happy May Time, Dear Grandma Land,” from one of the Board members whom I love dearly, friend of my daughter’s, Mrs. Williams. Mrs. Williams always remembers to bring me little things, seasonal things. She brought me a beautiful bouquet of forsythias before anyone else got the snow off their bushes, and I watched that flower blossom. Father was born in Smithville Flats and although he had, apparently, only a—the schooling from the Village School, he was, an extremely literate man. He, I'm amazed because his formal education, must have been very limited, but he was an appreciative man. He would appreciate the art, and he always saw that I had the, very best reading material and also being an only child he indulged me, in my sartorial department. I always had beautiful clothes, I think he probably deprived himself to get me all decked out to go. He was 85 and you see he was only 30 years old when Mother died. And he had never remarried, he devoted his life to raising me. And he had the time when he and Mother were married, he was Superintendent of the Prudential Insurance in Oneonta.  I never did know why he came to Binghamton, they came, here before I was born. They were married in 1893 and 1897 I was born. After they came back here he was working for the Prudential as an sgent for, a while, but I think Father never found out what he really wanted to be. I think had Mother lived she would have stirred him more. He was a clerk in a grocery store. Oh I remember that—we never mentioned money, it seemed vulgar to talk about prices of things—but I remember my uncle saying to my father who was, 8 years his junior, “Fred, what did you pay for that coat of Helen’s?” And Father would say, “20 dollars.” My father at that time was making 12 dollars a week and then he got a raise for 14 dollars. He was always very thrifty, very. However when Walter Damrosch or Sousa's Band came here those tickets were 3 dollars, apiece, and he always took me to all the concerts that came along. How he managed it I don’t know but he was a wonderful thrifty man and he could not stand charge accounts, he thought those were the, invention of the devil, and all of my friends in school would go in, and said, “Charge it to Mr. So and So.” Father and I felt very humiliated. I think 14 and 15 year old girls are very sensitive and I felt that it was really very low class, to have to go and pay cash for anything, so I contrived a little system of my own.  The Credit man at McLean’s Department Store was a neighbor, of ours, Mr. Dennis, and he knew Father very well, so one day I went to the Credit Department, said to Mr. Bennett, “Father wants to open an account here,” and he said, “That would be very nice, Helen,” having known me—so he made out the account or put it on the book that Fred Paka of 7 Lincoln Ave. had an account. I knew that, that, wouldn't go over with Father, so I wanted to get some stockings, silk stockings, and Father thought that was an extravagance, all the other, girls wore silk stockings to Dancing School, but he thought the lyle were enough, those were Buster Brown stockings at 25¢ a pair. So I told him that I needed stockings, badly, that I, had to have 4 pair, he gave me a dollar, I had the dollar, I was, always very careful, I had the dollar in the drawer of my dresser, then I went with some friends into McLean’s and I ordered one pair, of silk stockings, which were a dollar, charged to Mr. Fred Paka, of 7 Lincoln Ave. The next day I came home and went to the Credit Dept. and I wanted to pay Mr. Fred's bill and they said, why, he had only been charged the day before, and I said I hadn't realized that but anyway I want to pay the bill, so I put down my dollar, and a couple of nights after, Father said, “Where were those stockings you bought?” And I said, “They’re in my room.” He said, “I’d like to see them.” I think he, was a little suspicious, and I said, “Well they’re like the, other, ones, that I always get.” He said, “Well let me see them,” and I said, “I wonder where which drawer I put them?” And he said, “You didn't by any chance buy a pair of silk stockings with the dollar?” and I said, “Yes I did, all the other, girls have silk stockings.” Well this went on for a year, my going in and charging, things. In fact up to the time when I was married, I went in and charged things to my father, but I always had the money before I charged it. And I think that the bookkeepers in McLean’s must have hated me, because, they would have to post it one day and the next day, I would go in to pay the bill. And I lived in such terror that the bill would be sent to my father, and he would find out that he owed money, because he had a regular sensation about owing money. A druggist neighbor of his—ah—Father lived on Crandall St. last years of his life, and around the corner Mr. Barnam had a drugstore and he told me that Father came in one night to buy a magazine and it was on a Saturday night and Mr. Barnam had locked up and didn’t have, any change, Father gave him a dollar and he says, “you can pay Monday or any time.” Father said, “No I don’t owe anybody overnight for anything,” and he said he wouldn’t take the magazine. Well that’s the way he was brought up, you either had it or you didn't. But I said my poor, father never knew that he had an account in McLean’s from 1911 to the time he died, 1915, so I was scheming. My aunt taught in Central High School and that embarrassed me, terribly, Mother’s sister, and I didn't want people to know, that she was my aunt, she was 17 years younger than my mother, only 11 years older than I was, but in a town like this, everybody knows who’s related to who, and finally people started asking me, if she was related, to me. I said, “No, no, not at all.” Well I was in her Biology class. I think that’s why she resigned and went to Brockport, and taught out there, because I gave her a very hard time, I’d become conveniently deaf and didn’t have my lessons prepared properly, I took full advantage of everything. In fact the principal called me to his, office, one day and said, “Your aunt”—I was very well behaved in everybody’s class but hers—he said, “Your aunt tells me she is, having a little difficulty here with you.”  “My aunt, what do you mean?” And he said, “Look don’t tell me that she is not your aunt, I know she is. I have a sister going to school in here and if you think it’s any, treat to us, to have our relatives going where we're teaching, you got another guess coming.” I don’t know why she should spread a story like that, but I never gave in that I was related to her and at the end, of the year, she resigned and went to Brockport Normal, where she, was very happy. Anna: Why did you deny her? Mrs. Land: Well because she was bossy and she was only ten years older than I, and I didn't think she had any right to push me around. And I was a brat, that was the whole thing, I never had any trouble with any of the other teachers, and, but I just wasn’t going to be pushed around. But I did, I do think that, scholastically what I learned that year, in the 4 years in the Central High, I can’t be grateful enough to the marvelous, teachers we had. Our English teachers, our Latin teachers, our German teachers. We were perfectionists. If your assignment wasn't done you jolly well stayed, after school that night. Anna: Do you remember some of the names? Mrs. Land: Oh yes I remember, them very well. Fraulein Meyer was my German teacher, and Professor Greenwood, Julius Greenwood, was my English teacher, and I owe, I owe him so much, because he was such a perfectionist. And my Latin teacher, I had a teacher that I referred to as Caesar Brown, and then later on I had Miss Rogers, and I had Professor Williams in American History and I had Elizabeth Bump in Ancient History, and Miss Frink in Geometry. I had Professor Dan Mills who was an excellent Mathematician. I had him. I loved German. I don’t know why it seemed to come easily to me, but I knew Fraulein Meyer. Anna: You never—I don’t know if she was teaching at the school then—Minka Beaukmann? Mrs. Land: Oh no, no, Minka Beaukmann wasn’t teaching there when I was there—she came after— Anna: But you, do you remember her? Mrs. Land: Oh yes, certainly— Anna: You do? Mrs. Land: I knew the, the whole Beaukmnann Family. Anna: You did! She was one of my best friends in the world. Mrs. Land: Well, do you know Kathryn Maloney, by any chance? Well Kathryn is one of my best friends in the whole world! It’s a small world, isn’t it? Anna: You could tell her— Mrs. Land: I will! Anna: —that I worked for Minka, and helped her out. She was wonderful— Mrs. Land: I will. Anna: Minka Beaukmann was a wonderful friend— Mrs. Land: When I was a little girl— Anna: —one of the best friends I ever had. Mrs. Land: Well Charlotte Beaukmann, her older sister, I had her junior Endeavor class at West Presbyterian Church— Anna: What school did she teach in? Mrs. Land: She didn’t teach in the school, she stayed home and kept house for Eda and Minka. Anna: Minka taught—what did she teach? Mrs. Land: I’m not sure of that—I didn’t cross their teaching horizons. But Charlotte Beaukmann, and Henry Beaukmann was the only boy, and they lived at 28 Lincoln Ave, and my daughter lived at 29 when she was married. They bought 29, and that’s where my little great-grandson was born. Anna: You knew Minka! Mrs. Land: Oh yes, I know the whole family. And Kathryn Maloney just loved her. Well it’s a small world. And dear Kathryn comes to see me now, and she brought me— Anna: She does! Please say hello to her. Mrs. Land: —I will. And she brought me two pounds of soft-center [inaudible] the other day, and I said, “Kathryn, you just must not do that.” Every time she comes, she’s bringing something, and I said, “It embarrasses me to have you.”  [intermittently inaudible, 39m10s-41m47s] Mrs. Land: When I was little, you see, Davis St. hadn't been cut through, that was the Bennett Estate, and Mrs. Bennett had been left a widow, and I read in the paper today, I didn't realize that her husband was killed in 1900 with one of the very first automobiles we had here in Binghamton. It got out of control, and his name was Fred Bennett, and he left this beautiful Estate which was between Lincoln Ave. and West Seminary Ave., and all of that going down as far as Laurel Ave. was part of the Bennett Estate. But the stipulation was that she was not to be married.  She was a very beautiful young woman, young widow. And she had many suitors, but this home was absolutely beautiful. And finally she succumbed to the wooing of Dr. Wagner, he was the head of our State Hospital here, and she left this home and went to live at the State Hospital with Dr. Wagner. And her children by that time were grown, she had 2 daughters and a son, and they were grown all the way, and that home was allowed to go in just a ruin, this beautiful brick home it was, facing Chestnut St. It was the top of Davis St., but the west side was on West Seminary Ave. You drove in there, and we were forbidden as children to go and play there. There was a picket fence that came down as Lincoln Ave. But we went there, we would go and peek in the windows, and these gorgeous windows and tier glass mirrors from the ceilings to the floor in there and they had a watchman type of man, who would control the Estate. But in those days there was no vandalism, nobody broke in, and nobody desecrated those things. And today kids would be in it, and as a child, when I lived on Lincoln Ave., 6 Lincoln Ave., up until Millard Ave., that was all green houses to show you the beauty of the Estate. Well there was a Mr. Davis here who was a friend of Fred Bennett. And his Father who was Abel Bennett and I believe he was the First Major Of Binghamton, I'm not sure about that. But Mr. Davis who was Paul Titchner’s, Titchner’s grandfather, maternal grandfather, was a great friend of Fred Davis, Abel Bennett’s, son. And they cut through Davis St. and named it for Paul Titchner’s, grandfather, and the other day one of the Paul Titchner’s daughters said to me, “Where was, did the Moreses used to live? What was the name of the street they used to live on?” And I said, “Jean, that street was named after your great-grandfather and don’t be saying, ‘What’s the name of that street?’”  “It was named after my great-grandfather?” I said, “It certainly was.” Davis Street was named for him, but when I was young Bennett Park was a place to go. There was no entertainment over there, like Ross Park, but it was beautiful, the woods were nice, over there and there were picnic tables and you could go over there and, have your picnic lunch and it was a very nice place, for families to go to, to go around, they would sit there at night , and it was a, nice place to go. I lived at Lincoln Ave., 7 Lincoln Ave. We had, wooden sidewalks then there were, were no cement walks then and, between 7 and 9 Lincoln Ave. there was a little lamppost out there and there was a little man, midget man that used to come down the street, every night with a little, ladder over his shoulder and a torch in his, hand, and he would put this little ladder up against this little, lamppost, and climb up on it and light that lamp. That was before, the days of arclights, electric lights or anything else. And I would look over the windowsill and watch for him to come, every night, cause it was really—I was afraid of him, there was something about him, he was as I say a malformed little fellow and he, carried this little ladder over his shoulder with his arm between it, and he'd put this against the lamppost, and I don't suppose the lamppost was more than 6 feet tall, but he would climb up on that and, light that lamp. And oh I could remember, when electric lights went in, that was considered something. We had only gas in the house, that was on the first floor, you used kerosene lamps on the second floor, very few families had them. Although I know that in 1912 some private homes, some families were fixed for electricity, but very few, most of them depended on gas. These Wellspot burners which were very perishable, and if you were sent to the store to get one you prayed you wouldn’t drop it on the way home, but in those days I had a, friend, who had electricity in the house, and you took a basket of burned out bulbs, and took them over to the Electric Light Company on Washington St., and they replaced them with new bulbs. That didn't last very long, that was the days you did things like that. I do remember that the trolley cars went out of existence in 1932—they were replaced by buses—because I was over in Canada for the Summer and I had a letter from my father saying they took a ride on the last trolley. Today we used to ride from Leroy St. and Chestnut St. We took a streetcar on a terribly hot night, it would take us to the State Hospital Hill for a nickel and you would go up there, and they would turn the seats, these were open air streetcars and they would turn, turn the seats, and you'd have to get out, and for another nickel, you would ride back, from the Hospital Hill, down to Chestnut and Leroy Streets. That would give you a real nice outing. Oh our entertainments were very inexpensive. My father was a bookkeeper for Grayson and Carr’s Groceries and Meats at the corner of Main and Edwards St., 106 and 108 Main. After Father died I was going through his desk and I found a statement, that he made up, he used to go to the store in the morning, when in summer the men came in with the produce, with berries, and vegetables like that. Father would go down half past four in the morning to meet them there and then he would ride around with a horse and buggy. Then he would take orders, and he would ride back to the store, and put up the groceries and meat, and go back and deliver it. And some of these people would pay cash, and some had weekly statements, and some had monthly statements. Father would come home at 6 o’clock at night, had his supper and go right up to his desk and sit down, make out these statements, he'd be working ’til 12 or 1 o’clock, the most beautiful penmanship you have ever seen, and he would be making out these, statements. Well I found a statement, I think it was in 1906, and, it had the prices of things there. A pound of butter, 12¢, and coffee was 28¢ a pound, rib roast of beef $1.12 for 2 or 3 pounds. Father was a great coffee drinker up to the day he, died, and all the give away things in those days. Here we have a this-and-that shop, Hershey Bars now, 20 cents I buy 5 of these bars, 5 for a dollar. My father is turning in his grave, oh I just can’t believe it, I do not see how they can feed their families, but that’s now. Anna: I go to the St. Patrick’s Cemetery, it’s near the Slovak Cemetery, and that’s where all my folks, my family are buried. My grandmother Anna Mrlak, my father Stephen Torony, and my dear brother Robert Torony who was injured playing football, he has a monument of his own features carved out of stone.  Mrs. Land: Who did it?  Anna: An old man in Barre, Vermont. He was only 24 years old, he was a wonderful, good boy, loved by all. When he died there were 150 cars at his funeral, and the whole city didn’t work that day—a Tribute to Bob Torony the Great Football Hero, died Jan. 1932. I never got over it. Mrs. Land: Oh no, you don’t. Well Rick Cooper, Edgar Cooper’s son— Anna: Ricky was in the next room to Bob’s in the New York Hospital. And they both died of the same sickness. We knew the Cooper family and we went to see them in New York. He, Rick is buried in the Chenango Valley Cemetery in Hillcrest. My daughter Irene lives near there.  Mrs. Land: That’s very interesting, because you can’t get Vermont granite today for your brother’s monument. Anna: The man that made it said the longer it stays, the more it will look like him (Bob). It sure was a tragedy.  Mrs. Land: Well you wonder why those things happen.  Anna: Thanks for a wonderful interview, Mrs. Land. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Helen Land Subject The topic of the resource Land, Helen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Electrification; Citizenship; Trolley cars; Bennett Family; Recreation Park; Ross Park; Dance class Description An account of the resource Helen Land talks about her birth and upbringing in Binghamton, NY and how the town has changed over the years. She reminisced about growing up in Binghamton, and discusses taking dance classes, attending church picnics, family outings, and attending school. She talks about the Bennett Family, <a href="http://www.rossparkzoo.com/">Ross Park,</a> Recreation Park, old trolley cars, electrification in homes, local businesses, hotels, entertainment, and mentions various people of Binghamton. She also discusses her marriage to a man from Canada and losing her citizenship, and her difficulty in getting her citizenship back. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 40A ; Recording 40B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Land, Helen ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:47 Minutes ; 26:22 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6c3a5911be311ee7d89e4358271ce49f.m4a 80c9c9d748b5d9bf8b9d4788e565d48f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Weaver, Helene Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13:25 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56052">Interview with Helene Weaver</a> Subject LCSH Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America; House of the Good Shepherd; Broome County Office for Aging Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Helene Weaver Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 20 March 1978 Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could you tell us a little something about your early beginnings, your recollection of your childhood, where you were born, what your parents did and that sort of thing? Helene: Well, I was born in Binghamton on Miles Street in the year of 1897 and a my father and mother parted when I was very young and then he had a business in a what was called Lestershire and a he remarried and I lived with—in Lestershire and I had a stepmother who was very good to me and a all her—she was a family of ten children and a I thought a great deal of my aunts and uncles and my father had a business for a good many years. He had to run a meat market in Johnson—in Lestershire and then it was changed to Johnson City in about 1916 I think. And I left school the third year of high school and went to work in a E-J office and while I was there they changed the name from Lestershire to Johnson City and then they christened a boat down in New York—Johnson City and I was one of the delegates to go. There was a delegate from each department E-J's that was taken and there was the ones by Mr. George F. & Mr. Harry L. took the second ones—the second highest and we went to New York and christened this boat. Had a wonderful time. (chuckle) There was a four of us girls together and we had—we didn't get any sleep all the time we were gone because we were having such a wonderful time and I worked until I was married. Then in 1920 and a we had—we were—we were buying an E-J home and when the home was finished we went housekeeping. Susan: Do you recall how much you paid for that home? Helene: $4,000—$4,000 and each month—yes you paid your rent—you paid some on your principal. Well, we—we a lived there 7 years and a my daughter was born in 1927 and in 1928 we sold our home and moved to Binghamton because my husband’s work was in Binghamton then and he had been an E-J worker and then he was working for Crowley Milk Co. is why we moved to Binghamton and he worked there two or three years and then he was—he went to work for Stow Mfg. He worked there ‘til he died in 1955 and a well my father sold his business the year I was married and he retired and he died in 1954. He would have been 83 years old in about two months and he died. (clears throat) Pardon me, then a—and then after my husband died I went to work at the House of the Good Shepherd. I had charge of the dining room and I worked there 4 years and then I retired at 62—and then I was a—they called me in for extra work whenever they needed me and then I knew some different people that they needed some help with meals and I used to go out and help them with their meals and do little things for people and then I took care of my grandson which was—he was born in 1956. I took care of my grandson and did this work and took care of my own home all at the same time and a I had a couple roomers in my home. They helped me with my rent and a then after my grandson was big enough so he could be left—I didn't do that anymore and then about 1965 I stopped doing any work for money and I moved here in the highrise in ‘68 and I got into the—into different things into volunteer work when they started the a Serve the ones that started the volunteer work and I worked for them until the R.S.V.P. took it over and I worked—I worked at the hospital every other week for 7 years and I have worked at the United Way for volunteer work and I have worked for the Office for the Aging and I worked for the A.O.P. Office, The Lawyers Reference and I was a cashier for the nutrition sight at the Y.W. for oh 6 years and a I've had to give it up because I didn't feel able to get back and forth to—to the project and I—the highrise I—I came in here when the apartment was brand new and I have been very happy here and it has given me more a chance to get to meet people and get out to do things and gives me something to occupy my time and help others and a I don't know as I know of anything more that I can tell you unless you have any questions you'd like to ask. Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could we go back a little bit and a tell us a what life was like in Lestershire when you were a little girl growing up and the changes that you have seen in the community since the early days? Helene: Well, when I was growing up it was—it's Johnson City now—but it was then Lestershire and I went to the Hudson Street school and I left my third year high school and went to work in E.J. office but when I was small I had cousins and we—we a had a big family and we were always together. The family was always together. We had good times and a if we wanted to amuse ourselves we had popcorn or pulled taffy or—or something like that we would play the piano and sing and we weren't allowed out at night until I think the curfew rang at 9 o'clock and we were supposed to be in by 9 o'clock and I can remember when if I was up to my cousins’ and I didn't get started home quickly enough and the curfew rang I was scared to death for fear the policeman would pick me up (chuckle) but I never did get picked up but a I always tried to be home. My folks were very strict with me and they tried to give me a good home and I had to mind my parents and I was taught that I shouldn't tell stories—tell fibs and not to lie and I should—should be kind to people and well as I say the—the a those times were so different from now I think but we thought nothing of it. I think that we were happier in our younger days than some of the young people now because before they’re 12 years old they've seen and had everything and we didn't. We went gradually getting things and so that when—and when we grew up there was still more things to take up our mind and our time and to for our enjoyment and a I was brought up to go to church and Sunday school and I thought I couldn't ever miss that was—that was one thing I didn't think I could miss prayer meeting or church or anything. I was brought up to live that way and a then when I worked in the E-J office I worked 10 hours a day 5 days a week that was from 7 to 6 and then on Saturday from 7 ‘til 5 and I got $8.50 a week and I thought I was rich (chuckle) and I gave my people $5.00 a week for my room and board and I used to think that well I was being punished that way but as I grew older I realized that my folks wanted me to know the responsibilities of handling money which I am very thankful for now and a I enjoyed working in this office there was about 50 girls in the office where I worked and I had—I did different jobs. I learned different things. I never was a bookkeeper or anything like that but I did—I did filing and I did orders and I did sample work. They made out samples with shoes and a I used to help on the inventory and when the First World War—I went out in the factories and sold Liberty bonds and I did I don't remember how many I sold at the time but I did very well. I did very well at that time. And a now that I see that E-J's have gone I—I feel very sad at times to think that E-J factories are not working anymore because they did so much for Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson City and a George F. built the libraries and started the libraries and the dinners for people to eat—where they could go eat and they did so much for us and we had our E-J Chorus. I was in that some of the time and a but as I say it makes me feel very sad when I go down to Johnson City which I was down there a couple weeks ago and I see how Johnson City looked it just made me sick. I just said to my sister, “Oh I can't imagine what's ever happened to Johnson City.” But I think it’s just the idea that E-J's have just gone out because the Johnsons are all gone practically and a so though the times have changed so well I'm glad that I'm my younger days were filled with the way they were rather than the times now. I think that my life was—I've had a very sheltered life really because when I hear the things that go on that I never knew existed before and I'm glad that I never did know cause I don't like the thoughts like that (chuckle) so I guess that's about all I can tell you right off hand now of what happened. Susan: Thank you very much Mrs. Weaver, it's been very nice talking with you. Helene: Did I do all right? Susan: Fine. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Helene Weaver Subject The topic of the resource Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America Description An account of the resource Helene Weaver talks about her childhood in Binghamton, NY, her father's meat market in Johnson City. She worked in an office at Endicott Johnson until she married. After her husband died Helene finds employment with the House of the Good Shepherd, in charge of the dining room. After retiring she volunteered at organizations such as, RSVP, United Way, and Office for Aging. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 63 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Levine, Herbert Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-09-15 Subject LCSH Levine, Herbert -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Endicott (N.Y.); Russians -- United States; Jews; Syracuse University; Korean War, 1950-1953; Jewelry trade; Jewelry stores Ruby and Sons; Van Cotts Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:42 Minutes ; 14:36 Minutes ; 21:13 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56078">Interview with Herbert Levine</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Herbert Levine Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 15 September 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Herbert Levine of Hazard Hill Rd., Binghamton, [New York] on September 15, 1978. Herbert: Is the microphone in here? Nettie: Herb, will you tell us about your life and experiences in the community?  Herbert: Yeah, well, let me just use this as a guide. Okay? [clears throat] Um, first, I think we ought to talk about my father's background in, uh…in Europe. My father was born in Kharkov in Russia, actually the Ukraine. And, um…as a youngster, the family later moved to Kiev - where he grew up. My father went to school until age 12 or 13. He went to a Russian school during the day, and at 3:00 in the afternoon went to a Hebrew school where he learned to read Hebrew and to, uh, learn about the, you know, prayers of the Jewish religion. After, um….after leaving school, at about 13 years of age, he  went to work as an, uh, an apprentice to a German jeweler who lived in Russia - and just as we used to read about in the days of Charles Dickens, he lived in this man's place and slept on the floor and ate the food that was left over and that's, that’s what he did. And, ah, it's hard for us today to visualize just how they treated, eh, someone who was an apprentice. But he, he told of how one time he looked over the man's shoulder as he was working on a watch and fixing a watch - and the guy just knocked him for a loop and said, "Lookit: When I'm ready to have you know what I'm doing - I'll show you. Until then, you just sweep the floor and do what you're supposed to do." So, so that's what it was. Um, [clears throat] part of the interesting background that my father's family was that his mother died when he was eight years old, leaving four children. Uh, for a father to bring up four young children in, in Europe at that time was almost impossible, so he married a woman who was a widow. And she had four children. So together, there was, eh, four of our kids, and four, uh…four of my kids, four of your kids [laughs], and then they had three children. So there was a family of 11…uh, let me see…10 of whom came here. 10 children and a mother and father left Russia in 1905 to, uh, come to America. Uh, the reason they left Russia at that time was that, uh, unrest was already beginning. The workers were beginning to march in protest against  the Czar - the seeds of the rebellion, the revolution was starting. There was a  tremendous pressure against the Jewish community. My father tells of meeting out in the woods where they had protest meetings, complaining about the Czar, and what they're doing, and how the Cossacks used to come riding on horses with whips and swinging, uh, whips around their heads and chasing the people through the woods after them, so they used to, used to get out. So the young, Jewish people, at that time, were conscripted into the army - were just drafted into  the army - were put into the army for 20 - 25 years. His grandfather, he  recalled, who lived with them as a boy, 10 - 12 years old was conscripted  into the Russian army and served in the Russian army for 25 years. During  this period of time, on numerous occasions, uh, somebody, I don't know who - whether they be soldiers, whatever - were interested in converting him to Christianity. And to make him bow down to the cross. Well, one of the facets, tenets of the Jewish religion, is that our interpretation of the Ten Commandments is that you don't bow down to anything, and it means don't bow down. So it means Jewish people don't bow. And he - my father's grandfather - used  to show us the whip marks - scars on his back where he was whipped - to try to make him bow down and he just wouldn't do it. Never did. And so, that, that certainly re-enforced their, ah, feelings of religion because if their grandfather suffered through that, there’s something that you weren't going to give up in a hurry. But, he left Russia at the age 15 - together with, uh, with all his family. And they left, came, you know, steerage - they took every, almost all the money they had, um, to pay for their way to come to America. And, um, and to America, they came. They landed in Ellis Island, as did most of the immigrants at that time: 1905. And there was a slight problem with my father's health. They checked his lungs and they weren’t too happy about it; they were almost to send them back  because they were concerned about TB - tuberculosis. But, they finally let  him through. When they came to America, they were greeted by some sort of a cousin, distant cousin or something who was going to set him up in business. And they gave him whatever money they had left and he just ran off with it. So that took care of all the money they had. Like many immigrants at that time, they settled in the lower East Side of New York City. All these people - 10 children and a father and mother - in a little, tiny apartment. And everybody went out to get a job. My father, having worked in a jewelry business, went to work at age 15 in a factory, in a jewelry factory that made watch cases - pocket watch cases. And he was a polisher, just as you see a guy working on shoes in E.J. polishing all day long? That's what he did; he worked on a polishing machine. We have to realize, at this time, that he came here speaking only Russian, Ukrainian and German - those were the only languages he knew at 15 when he came here. So, uh, he went to night school in New York City to learn English to be able to get along as best he could. Incidentally, they never spoke Jewish or Yiddish because the Russian Jews who came to America thought it was nekaltoorne - it was not cultured to speak a low language like Yiddish. So in their homes, they spoke Russian. And they continued to. So at age 15, he, he worked in this factory. And, uh, did for a couple, three years until he started having trouble with his lungs. It was working in the sweatshop with no ventilation and so for forth - it wasn't good for his health. So his father suggested to him he oughta work outside where it's, uh, health, er, healthy and vigorous. So my dad went to a school that was organized at that time by a Baron de Hirsch - was a wealthy Jewish philanthropist - set up a school to teach agriculture in New Jersey. And went to this agriculture school for two years, studying agriculture and  horticulture. He said he didn't do too well in the theoretical parts of it because he did have trouble in the reading and writing, but when it came to the practical year - working with trees, vegetables, and so forth - he was top of his class. After taking this training, he was placed on a farm up near Rochester. And he worked on this farm, but he really found out that the farm life wasn't for him. He could remember that the farmer paid him very little and, and he really didn’t get much to eat. And he tells me how they used to go into the chicken coop and take a little pin prick and pick, prick a couple holes in the eggs, and- Nettie: [chuckles] Herbert: [chuckling] suck out the eggs, and put it back, in the egg, in the egg shell, back in the chicken's nest. Whatever.  But that, that didn't work out too well; he really didn't enjoy being a farmer. And so he went to Syracuse at this time. And his older brother - my uncle - married a woman in Syracuse whose family was in the jewelry business. And they were in the jewelry business such that they did business house to house - face to face with people. Not just in Syracuse, but around the upstate New York area. So my father was given a route and he went out with a suitcase full of jewelry. And he went one day to Rome, to Ilion, to Herkimer - in that general neck of the woods. And he developed a route, just like the Jewel Tea man did. Went to people's homes, and met them, and spoke with them. Now, one of the advantages that he had was his ability with languages because he came to America speaking Russian and Ukrainian very easily. He was able to pick up other Slovak languages enough to get along - Polish and Slovak. Uh, he spoke German because he had a background in German, and it wasn't too long before he was able to pick up Italian. And he was able to get along and, and…and if he didn't know what a word was, he would just show a thing to a person - an earring, necklace, whatever - he had to learn these words, you know. And the people told him what it was, you know. Koletso [sic]. He knew what it was, but in, in Italian they told him what a ring was, what an earring was. So he was able to sell the thing. In those days credit was very important because, uh, these were just working people, really. And, uh…so, they would buy something and pay for it a little bit each week - you would come back  to see them [cough], you were invited in the home - if a christening, a wedding or  birthday or gift was coming up or something, they would say to him, "Ruby, why don't  you bring something next week because I have a special gift coming up?"  My father's name was Rubin Levine - uh, Ruven (R-U-V-E-N), I guess is how it, how it was in Russian. And we have his birth certificate, and it’s interesting to see the name Levine spelled in Russian - because Levine in Russian is spelled with five letters (L-A-V-E-N). “E” is a hard sound; an “e”, a Russian “e,” is a hard sound, “e.” There was a meakhnozak [sic] at the end, you know? Nettie: Yes. Herbert: But anyway, there was a hard “e” sound. And so today, when you see people's names - “Levine,” sometimes it appears as “Levin” (L-E-V-I-N) because they just took one letter from each letter in the Russian alphabet and called it “Levine.” And it came out in English, “Levin.” To make it sound like “Levine,” in our case, they put a [sic] “e” on the end. So it would, instead of…it really sounds like “Leh-vine...” Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: If you pronounce it exactly. Some people spell it  L-E-V-E-N-E, with an “e” on the end. Nettie: Oh, nice. Herbert: Maybe keeping it “Levine.” But I, I've asked him if it ever was Levinsky or anything like it, but it  wasn't Levinsky. It was really Levine, which is an old, old Hebrew word; it comes from the Levites. The Levites, if you read the first testament, they were priests and Levites who took care of the Temple in the early days. And that's where the names Levi; Livi; Levin; Levine comes from - sort of a historic thing. But, [clears throat] where were we? He, he was working in Syracu-out of Syracuse, traveling to Ilion, Rome, so forth, when World War I came along. And, uh, having never served in the Army - boom! - first thing you know - away he went. Uh, let's just see what it was [clears throat] - in 1917, I think, 1917 or 1918 is when he went. So he went into the army at 27 - 28 years of age - no youngster. And, uh, went through training, was assigned to a machine gun battalion, was sent to France. In France, uh, he learned French because he had this ability to pick up languages. Uh, spent some time in France. He was wounded; received the Purple Heart. Spent some time in the hospital in France. And, uh, came back finally. And, ‘bout a year and half later, in 1919. Uh, from the army, a veteran. Decided, well, maybe he would go back to Syracuse where he left off and go into business - in the jewelry business. Uh, lo and behold, he found that, number one: He was replaced. [chuckles] There was a man who was traveling the same route that he was and he told everybody he was Ruby's brother. “Ruby’s in the army - I'll ta-I’ll take care, I’m his brother.” So he stole all of his customers; this guy took all his customers. Secondly, his actual brother, who was  the son-in-law in this business, wasn't that happy with him coming back to settle permanently in Syracuse. So my father heard of the Triple Cities - he heard of this place, you know, eight-80 miles away from Syracuse that was filled with shoe workers, and new immigrants, and workers, and there was, uh, a busy, thriving, growing community. So in the spring of 1919, 1919…he came to Binghamton. And he, uh, had a house - had a room, lived in a rooming house. I guess on Carroll St./Susquehanna St., someplace. And he opened up an office in the Press Building. At that time, there were many jewelers operating out of the Press Building - some with little shops, there manufacturing jewelers, watch makers - and he decided he would start from scratch. And, and as he did before out of the Syracuse area, he went house to house, people's homes- introduced himself; came in; sat down; told them he was a jeweler; he would be happy to sell them things; had nice things - and through his personality and his ability to get along, speaking all of these seven or eight languages…it was easy for him to make contact with, with, uh, immigrants. And, and by treating people fairly and honestly, little by little, his reputation  grew as an honest man. And, uh, and his business became established. He met my mother in  the early 20's…and, uh, [clears throat] let's see…1922, [cough] moved to Endicott. He decided Endicott didn't have anywhere as many jewelers as Binghamton did and perhaps, it  would be better to be in a smaller community and be more important than being  in Binghamton with a lot of jewelers. So, he came to Binghamton - opened a business and still continued to go visiting his customers door to door. However, i-it was difficult- tough on his stomach because in those days everybody made their own wine. And [coughs] when you were invited into someone's house, you had to accept their hospitality, and accepting their hospitality meant drinking whatever they had to offer was. After doing that eight - 10 - 15 times, you came home upset to your stomach and pretty sick. And my mother said, "Hey, you better cut this out. If you’re gonna be in business, these people better come see you. If they're not interested enough in comin’ to see you, then [chuckles] that's just too bad." Nettie: [chuckles] Herbert: So, so he stopped going out house to house. Maybe did on Sundays, but he, uh, but he did…uh, organize his own business and had a business where people came to him. One of his first drivers was a, a young man who liked to drive a car. His name was Sammy Moriello. Now, I don't know if you remember the name. But, he was a very notable youngster in Endicott's history. He was a, a [sic] Air Force ace. He was a pilot and, and an ace - I don’t know how many planes you had to shoot down. I think he was later killed flying. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: But, he was, ah, he used to drive my father from house to house and door to door so that he was able to, uh, have more freedom to take care of his business and his customers. During this period of time, you know, in the early 20s - Endicott was  sort of rough and tumble. There were all kinds of things going on, and it probably wasn’t the most, uh, civil, organized, uh, community way of life. If there was a police chief with one or two policemen, that was probably a lot. And there was a lot of robbery and, and such things going on. [coughs] He told a story, one day, of going to someone's home, he knocked on the door, and the man lets him in - some place on the north side of Endicott - and the man…my father has a little suitcase full of jewelry. The man pulls out a gun and points it to my father, and he says, "You know, Ruby?” He says, “I could let you have it right now.” He said, “But, I'm not going to because they told me that you’re a [sic] okay guy and to leave you alone." And so, that's just what they did. They, uh, they did leave him alone and never bothered him. Throughout the many years that I worked with my dad in 1953 - 1965, uh, I used to ask him about those times and what went on. And of course, he could understand everything everybody spoke: He could understand Italian; Russian; Polish; Slovak. Many people were speaking Italian…but he never repeated stories. I used to ask him  about Barbara and what- Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: -went on in those days, but he never used to talk about it. He said, "Some things you listen and ya, and you don't repeat.” And he said, “That’s how you [laughs] get along in this world." Nettie: [laughs] Herbert: And, and so, that's, that’s what he did. Um, just briefly on my mother's background - she was born in Syracuse. Her family came to America. Perhaps, uh, 20 years before my father's family did, coming from Austria-Hungary. And this family, also, again, 10 children. Her mother and father came and settled in Syracuse, New York…and, uh, were brought up there. These children had much more of an education. My mother went to high school; graduated from high school; worked as a secretary in the Syracuse area before coming to Binghamton. So, uh, culturally, uh, they were on a different plateau. Uh, they spoke Yiddish in their home. Especially when my grandfather died at an early age. But, the grandmother spoke to her Jewish and Yiddish quite often. Um, so my mother certainly had no ability to speak foreign languages other than, uh, a little bit of Jewish and, uh, and English. In our home growing up, the youngsters once in a while, the only time they ever resorted to a foreign language is when they didn't the children to understand. Nettie: [chuckles] Herbert: As happens in, in so many families. From the beginning, I think my father's whole concept of business was to present a feeling of interest in his customers. That he was concerned about them - that he gonna treat them right and be honest. And, and, uh…to his very last year, as I can recall in Endicott talking to people as we stood there, standing beside him - and, and he told customers in whatever language that he was speaking that he wasn't going to leave his children a million dollars, but he was going to leave them an honest name. And, and this was really his, uh, his whole concept. And I think, you know, a very valid one for, uh, for running a business today. Uh, my dad was very much involved in the community. Uh, during the war years, I recall…well, let's go back. He, he became a Mason and was involved in Masonry, which was a, a very big thing. Interestingly enough, although Masonry was a very strong Protestant movement, Masonry did allow Jewish people to belong to it. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: Catholic people didn't, but Jewish people did. And, uh, and so, at Round Hill Lodge in Endicott, my father became very much involved - was in Consistory, a member of the shrine, and took much pride in, in participating. I can recall that, ah, my father always was interested in going to adult education courses in UE High School, way, way back. Uh, courses were given on current events, and world politics, and national politics. And, and, uh, rarely did he miss attending one of those types of courses. Like many people who, uh, came up from nothing, my  father knew very little about hobbies. He didn't play cards, play golf, gamble - he, he really just, uh, worked. Had a little garden - took care of his garden. And, uh, between the energies that he consumed - bringing up his family; being a father; and working; and taking care of his house...that, that took care of everything. Uh, in those days, of course, a six day week existed in a retail business. There was no such thing as a vacation. We never went on a vacation for a week or two because to go on a vacation would’ve meant to close the business and that, that just was never done. So I have to admire greatly those people who came before us, such as my father and,and his many friends and customers. Because, you know, these people were of two worlds and of two cultures. They lived in, in America, in Endicott. And they were able to keep up with the problems of  the community, and the state, and the nation, and so forth. But at the same time, they never lost touch with what happened in the Old World. And they were able to talk with someone about Europe, and what went on there and what is going on there - at the same time as keeping track of what was going on in America. They lived in two worlds. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: And sometimes, we, who have an opportunity to go to college, uh, think that we have it all, but we really don't. We probably have, ah, just a finger, thumbnail full of background of knowledge compared to what these people did who were have enough, you know, to pick up their whole family. 10 children, a husband and wife - go to a place where they couldn't even speak the language and didn't know what was ahead of them. It was, uh, an amazing - it was an amazing chore, but everybody did it in those days. I guess, I guess it, you just took a chance. Today, people are worried about moving to Charlotte, North Carolina; and they’re debating and going - and you know, it's a, it’s a big challenge. Here, people left to go to a new country. And didn't know what was ahead of ‘em - didn't know, didn’t know what was coming  Uh…now, how did I happen to end where I am?  Uh, I went to college in Syracuse University in 1945. And, uh, my parents thought that certainly, anyone who is able ought to go to college and be educated and be something. My father said, "Well, why don't you become an optometrist? Ya know?” Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: “And I'll put a little place for ya in the back of the store. I'll tell all my friends-” Nettie: [laughs] Herbert: “-you know, my son’s here, you’ll take care of him." In those days, Rudolph's had an optometrist - uh, you used to get your glasses in a jewelry store. That was the thing to do. Hilkins, which was one of the oldest - the oldest jewelry store in Endicott - was originally an optical place and a jeweler. That's what Mr. Hilkins needs, an optician; and that's how they got into business. So in those days, at least on that particular point, I didn't argue. So I went to Syracuse University and took the necessary courses to go to study optometry at Columbia University. In those days, you went to college for two years and then studied optometry for two years.  And so, I underwent some courses in math; in calculus; in physics; in chemistry; in scientific German; whatever I needed to do. And, uh, applied to get into Columbia. Just at the time I applied, all the veterans were returning  from the war, and I was a youngster who just went to college at just being, just a little over16 years old…so that I was only 18 years when all the veterans of 24 - 5 - 6 - 8 were coming out of the service. They were given preference and I didn't get in. I really wasn't too sad because I, I really [laughs]…it wasn't my idea in the first place - it was father's. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: So I continued my education, and majored in sociology which I found very interesting, and studied about world population problems and, and ethnic backgrounds and all the things that we’re interested in today. Juvenile delinquency, criminology, and so forth. It, it was an interesting way to, to see life. I was very much involved in the  campus activities, and the dean knew my name, and the chancellor knew my name. And, however, very - hardly a teacher knew who I was. I wasn't the most excellent student. But, upon graduation, I thought certainly the world had - is looking for a guy  like me with all these talents, and abilities, and so forth. And, and I went out to look for a job. During this period of time, I’d met the girl who later became my wife, and, uh, she was interested in seeing me get established and get going. And so, the pressure was on. So upon graduation from college, I had to do something. And lo and behold, there weren't too many jobs available in 1949. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: But, uh, because I helped my father after school, and a, maybe couple summer vacations, in the jewelry business, I ended up getting a job with Kay Jewelers. Which at the time had its headquarters in Washington, D. C. In 1949, Kay Jewelers was the largest jewelry chain in the country. And they had a training  program for young people, such as myself. So, so I went to Rochester, N. Y. where I went to work as a trainee for $45.00 a week. And I worked six days a week; the store was open two nights and we trimmed a window one night. So I worked three nights a week and our manager liked to work every Sunday morning. So I worked every Sunday morning as well. So that was an interesting introduction to how- [Both laugh] Herbert: -how to have to work for a living. I didn't have a car, and I used to ride back and forth on a bus and lived in a room in a rooming house. And many times didn't talk to anybody from the day I left the s-time I left the store ‘till the next morning. Because I'd go to a restaurant and have something to eat, went home, and went to a movie, and that’s about it. But a year later, I was married. My wife and I settled in, in Rochester and she worked across the street in the Girl Scout office, and I in the, in the Kay Jewelers. And there I was until I was rescued from this terrible fate because I really didn't enjoy the level of the business. It was a credit business doing business with, um, uh, the black population. At that time, I felt they were really being taken advantage of - 50¢ down, 50¢ a week, selling things to people who couldn't afford it. It was, uh, it was not a nice thing to get off. But I was rescued by all this by Uncle Sam who said, "You'd better come with  me," because Korea had just started and I was about to get drafted. So I entered the U.S. Coast Guard where I went to Officer Candidate School - later became an officer and skipper of a Coast Guard cutter in Norfolk, Virginia. I stayed in  Norfolk, Virginia for two years. Didn't know quite what to do - maybe I’d go to law school, maybe I’d do something; go back to get a graduate degree in business. When my father wrote me a note one day- Nettie: [clears throat] Herbert: -that he was going to buy a jewelry store - Abraham’s Jewelry and, and Luggage Store - on Chenango St. And said, “You’ll come home - we'll have a second store, you’ll be en [sic], it’ll be terrific.” So we made plans to come to Endicott, and to move there, and to settle. And now we have a youngster: Our oldest son, uh, Rick. And we were all set to come when my dad called to say, “The deal fell through, but come here, anyway.” So come home, anyway, we did. And we lived in Endicott in a, on a house on McKinley Avenue. I went to work joining my father’s business in 1953. I stayed with him, working with him side by side from 1953 until he died in 1965. Our, after our parents died in ‘55 and ‘56, my brother and I remained owners of Ruby & Sons. And in 1969, uh, Kenneth Van Cott had decided to retire. At first, my brother Carl and I were both going to, uh, buy this store and run them together. But, as we worked out the details, it appeared that we would be much better off if, uh, each of us had our own business. So I bought Van Cott's, selling my interest to the Endicott store to Carl. So as of the past nine years, Carl owns Ruby & Sons and I own Van Cott' s, and we're best friends, and it works out, works out very, very good. Um, after getting involved in the jewelry business, one of the first things I did was to  start taking courses in gemology and diamond study because it appeared to me from the very start that, that Mr. Van Cott had the right approach on the, on the jewelry business. He was a professional and he was an expert; he was a registered jeweler in the American Gem Society. And it appeared that that's the kind of person you should be: If you’re going to be a jeweler, be first class in all the way. So we sort of copied everything he did in, in organizing our store and changing it from a credit store to what we call a fine jewelry store. And so we copied everything in Endicott to make our store as close as it could be to Van Cott’s. So now our two stores are similar in character. Uh, Van Cott's still has a tradition that goes way back to the early 1900s as the- Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: -quality store in Binghamton. And we still have customers coming in, uh, as a result of that. But we, I did become a registered jeweler in the American Gem Society, and for a number of years it was just Mr. Van Cott and myself who held this title. Today in our store we have two other young men plus myself who hold the title of, uh, of registered jeweler. Nettie: [coughs] Herbert: At the present time, I am on a board of directors at the American Gem Society- one of 12 jewelers in the whole country who was elected to this post. I am also serving this year as president of the New York State Retail Jewelers’ Association, uh, for the second year in a row. So I think being involved in, in organizations and in the jewelry business is very much important. Incidentally, uh, there's a third generation of Levine’s involved in the, the jewelry. Our son, Bill, who graduated from Syracuse University two years ago, is now in California at the Gemological Institute of America where he teaches  courses in diamond study and diamond grading. People from all over the world come to take these courses. And he's been there now going on two years and enjoys very much what he’s doing. He's become quite a speaker and traveled to Kansas, and to Missouri - addressing retail jewelers’ groups on how important it is to be a professional jeweler and, and have the knowledge and ability that is required to grade diamonds and gem stones. The jewelry business today keeps going on, and will go on forever because from day one - from the very first time when a primitive cave man looked down and saw a shiny pebble that shined just a little bit more than the rest, he put it in his little pouch  and saved it because it looked special. And if he liked someone extra special, maybe he even gave that little, beautiful, polished stone to him or to her to show his feelings. And jewelry throughout the years has done the, just that: It has conveyed people's feelings and emotions. I'm not sure that people even felt stronger about how much they would put into a piece jewelry years ago than today. My father had told me how to give, to be a godparent of a child was a very big  thing a couple generations ago - 50 years ago. When you were named as the godparent of a child, it was an honor that, that you know - above everything. You bought all of the children's  clothes, and you did everything and, and…if he was a boy, you bought him a pocket watch. And my father would tell me how people would buy a beautiful pocket watch - which today are back in style - and people would spend $50.00. $50.00 on a solid gold pocket watch. And these people didn't make good…$20.00 a week. Can you  imagine that? They spent 2 and a half weeks’ money on a christening gift. That’s today like giving somebody - I don't know - a $500.00 christening gift. You wouldn’t think of it. So…I'm not so sure that even though we give jewelry today, I don't think we stretch our, the limits of our involvement as much as we did way back when, when we realized that we wanted to give something extra special. And it would be nothing - I can recall in the early 50s when we did a lot of business with Endicott Johnson workers - for an Endicott Johnson worker to buy a Christmas gift for $50…for wife or husband to give a gift to each other…and in those days, usually both people worked in the factory. And they came in on a Friday afternoon with their paycheck; Friday afternoon, they came in and paid on their account with their paycheck, and they cashed their checks. Rarely was the check over $50.00. And they paid $1.00 on  their account. They paid $1.00. It would take a whole year to pay for their Christmas gift. And they never missed a week because the Endicott Johnson people had this  reputation for being most credit-worthy and being very, very responsible. For, uh, even though they didn’t make big incomes, when they accepted an obligation, they accepted it, uh, very wholeheartedly. And they very rarely backed down on it. One time, though, he, my father told me of an incident where a man didn't - wasn't quite so honest. And he bought one of these big, beautiful pocket watches I'm talking about which was $100.00 with chain and gold chain, a pocket watch. And…he sold it. My father sold it on credit, as he often did - this is without a credit bureau - nobody called the credit bureau, [laughs] nobody called anything. you looked at a guy - he looked honest, he worked at E.J., so you trusted him. What the heck! But o and behold, the next week, a man came in to my father and said, "Ruby, did you sell a pocket watch to such-and-such a fellow's name?" And he said, "Sure." He says, "Well, you know, he's going back to the Old Country for good. He's leaving town and he's not corning back, and he's taking your watch with him." Well, $100.00 is a lot of money, especially in those days. So my father got on the very early morning Erie train at 4 o’clock in the morning, rode all the way to New York City where the man had told him the name of the ship that this man was going to sail on. So he got there to the ship where the people were loading up - and lo and behold! There's the man. My father said, "What's the big idea? Where's my watch?" It was right there in his pocket. He said, "What kind of guy are you to take - steal that watch from me- take it all the way to Europe?" So he got his watch back. Another interesting story he told is: In 1934, one day, he got a call in the middle of the night from the police department that his store was broken into on Washington Ave. So that, uh, they went down and that’s just what happened; the front door was broken, people gained entrance to the store, and many of the rings, watches, and so forth were in trade, were all taken, strewn around. Almost everything was missing. Well, you didn't have insurance - at least, he didn't have insurance to cover himself that day, and he was really sick. However, the next day, he had a visit from a man, friend, a customer. And he said, "Ruby.” He said, "I know who robbed your store." He said, "And I'll tell you who it is." He said, "I was having a drink in a restaurant last night, and I heard these two fellas talking about doing a job.” “They were gonna do a job? Well, what were they gonna do?” And he [the customer] said, “I don’t know nothin’. They never mentioned the name of the place. But he said, “I’m sure that’s the people." So he told him who it was. And they were arrested, and they were able to recover, uh, some of the things. [phone interruption] Hello? Hello? [hangs up phone] So that was just another instance where my father's, uh, friendly relationships with people, you know, was, was such that, uh… Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: It, it really helped him. And, and, and I think that's probably the most important factor, uh, in the life of those people who, like himself, came and settled in a new country in the early 1900s. They came without a formal background, a formal education, but they, they had a sense of pride and responsibility. Um, when the American Legion had a parade, when Fourth of July came, or Veteran's Day, Memorial Day - it was a big thing. It was a big thing in Endicott and everybody was there. And even though these people, uh, didn't have roots that went back to the, to the Declaration of Independence in 1776, or the Civil War, or anything else… Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: I think these new immigrants felt more strongly about the pride in their country. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: And respect to the flag than, than many of  our children feel today. They take it for granted; we all, we all take it for granted. Um, growing up in Endicott was an interesting experience, and quite often I'm approached by people who are studying economics, and they hear about the terrible monopoly that existed in Endicott when the Johnson family took advantage of all the people, and re-surfed them, and became now - wealthy and millionaires. And I disagree with them heartly [sic] because growing up in Endicott as I did, I don't remember depressions or breadlines…I can remember a couple times people came to our house for something to eat, and my mother would say, "Well, why don't you rake up the leaves and do something?" So they didn’t feel like they were beggars. And, and they would do a little bit of work. And for that, in return she would give them something to eat. But, um…yeah, I think it was just a warm, friendly relationship. People used to sit on the front porches. This is a thing gone - of sitting on a front porch and saying "hello" to your neighbors, and talking to people as they wen up and down the street. Across the street from Endicott…ah, ah, in Endicott on McKinley Ave. was a little bend in McKinley Ave. where an alley is. An, an area was set up there where men used to pitch quoits every night. I don't know if you remember a family - Sutton. Sutton owned a drug store and there was a man named Kent who was an IBM’er…and a man named Bradley. Worked in the tannery; his son, Bob Bradley is head of Maine-Endwell. I think, uh, [of its] physical education department. His son, Tom, has a bar - redheaded - has a bar- Nettie: Yeah. Herbert: -on Arthur Ave., someplace. Anyway, they used to pitch quoits every night. And they went to Nanticoke Creek - we used to call that Nanticoke Crick. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: And I still do. And they got clay and they, they made these, uh, pits. And as youngsters, we used to sit there, they used to play, and we would keep score. Well, this was, this was sort of a community get-together. Everybody went there and, and it was just an informal get-together. But, everyone knew everyone. And I can recall as a youngster that you could go from one block - from Monroe St. to Broad St., behind all the houses on McKinley Ave. There wasn't a fence; there wasn't a fence. And little by little, the fences started coming - and the shrubs and the hedges. Whereas today, you know, we live in the backyard society. Now, if you want to have sun you, you sit in the backyard. And when you’re there, you don't see anybody and nobody sees you. That’s the way we live today. But, growing up in Endicott as we did, you sat on the front porch and watched everyone go by - it was a wonderful  institution. But, getting back to the Johnsons…when we went to a band concert on Sun, on Sunday night, as everybody did, and Mr. George F. used to come, sit in the front row and pass out nickels, or shake hands, or whatever he did…um, he didn't have a body guard that I know of. I don't think anybody was worried he would be shot, or hurt, or anything. Because he really, uh…the people had a love and respect for him. Everybody knew that his door was open; if you had a problem, you went to see Mr. George F. And if you wanted to have a church, a handful of families got together and said, "Look: We'd like to pray in our own, certain way.” And he said, "How much money do you need?" And you had a church. And when the people in the  American Legion wanted to have an American Legion, he said, “Here’s, here’s the money. You know? Build one.” And they had one in Endicott, one in West Endicott, one in Johnson City - wherever they wanted. He saw to it that, uh, the people's basic needs were provided for. It’s amazing how he understood people's basic needs. He knew they wanted their own home, a place to raise a garden, a place for recreation - built these beautiful parks and golf courses. I mean, who would ever think that the best golfers in Endicott 40 years ago used to be fellas who worked in the tannery? And they got out at 1 o'clock because they did all their work, and they used to go, and they used to go to play golf. The best golfers in Endicott used to work in the tannery. I mean, it’s unheard of. Today we think of people at a fancy Country Club who are going to be golfers - you know, the millionaires? In those days, it was the big strong fellows that could pull those hides out of the tanks and had all afternoon to learn to play golf. So that it, uh…it was a wonderful heritage growing up in Endicott. Uh, I think it was a melting pot - people of all, uh, backgrounds, uh, felt that they had something in common. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: And, uh, they shared and helped one another. I don't think there was tremendous bigotry. Uh, growing up as a person of the Jewish religion in Endicott, it was  certainly a tremendous minority. One thing I can remember most vividly is that, in eighth grade, we used to take a course called, “civics.” We used to have to take, “civics” and “citizenship.” It, it was always frightening because those were the first two regents things you took before ninth grade. And everybody had to take civics and citizenship. And I could remember in one of the courses - civics or citizenship - the teacher was trying to have us understand that, the concept of a melting pot. How America consisted of all these people from all different backgrounds who sort of came together. And she said, "You know? It would be a fun experiment if we could see right here in our class what countries are the backgrounds people came from.” So she said, “Let's try this: I'm going to mention these countries, and if you have a parent who came from one of these countries, why don’t you stand up and we’ll see what it is." So she mentioned England - a few people stood up. You know, Scotland; Ireland; Germany; Italy; Czechoslovakia. And they finally got to Russia. And she said, you know, "Anybody's parents who’re from Russia, stand up." And I stood up. Along with four, five, or six kids. And these kids looked at me and said, "Why are you standing up? You're not Russian! You’re Jewish." Nettie: [laughter] Herbert: So it was hard for them to understand that in Russia, some people were Jewish, too. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: They weren’t just, uh, Russian Orthodox or whatever church the Russian people belong to. But, uh, our children probably missed this. And they'll never quite understand what, uh, what it meant to grow up in a community where…I guess everybody started from base zero. And where they got, was closer to, to being close together. And now, after a couple generations, uh, perhaps in a sosh, socio-economic level, uh…some people's children are going off to private schools, and colleges, and living in fancy homes. And, and no longer come in contact with a general mixture of people of all different backgrounds. Of course, the people of the second generation greatly resisted their cultural background. I can recall how customers would come into the store with their parents. And my father would conduct the conversation with their  parent - in Italian, Polish, Slavish or whatever it was - and the kids would listen. And my father would talk to them in their native tongue and the kids would answer back in English. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: He said, “Don't you do that.” He said, “You’re going to be sorry if you don't take advantage of learning this language when you have the chance.” But, so many people - second generation - just wanted  to be Americanized. And they didn't want to be identified with anything old; they just  wanted to be identified with the new. In fact, some of the children, I'm sure, were embarrassed a little bit that their parents spoke with an accent and didn't speak perfect English. And, um, it certainly is nothing to be ashamed of. Because as I mentioned in the beginning, these people are heads and shoulders over us. They understand two worlds and we don't do too much of a job, uh, understanding one. As to my, uh, background and club affiliations? Uh, early in my life, probably one of the most important things in my life I ever did was to get involved with the scouting movement - in boy scouting. Much of my time as a teenager was spent concerning myself as a Boy Scout Troop, Sea Scout Troop. Which incidentally met at the First Methodist Church. And I can recall every Scout Sunday, during Scout Week - on Scout Sunday, I marched into the First Methodist Church with all the other scouts and sat and listened to this church service. Which, you know, was very, uh foreign to me. I listened to it; I wasn't 100% comfortable. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: But, I thought it wouldn't hurt if I did that. And then that was…that’s certainly what we did. On returning to Endicott in 1953, I became involved in Endicott Kiwanis Club - which certainly was a, a rewarding experience. Uh, throughout the years, l’ve been involved in many community activities. Uh, at this time, I happen to be serving as a trustee on the Binghamton Savings Bank, as a trustee on the Board of Binghamton General Hospital, I'm on the Board of WSKG TV and Radio as a trustee. I happen to be involved as President of the Jewish Cemetery Association, as a necessary job someone  has to do. I’ve served in the past year as a Vice-President of the Boy Scouts’ Council. Uh, Vice-President of the Temple of Israel. Uh…I, I try to get involved in as many things as I can. Years ago, I was, uh, President of the Endicott, Vestal-Endwell Chamber of Commerce when we had such an organization. I was Chairman of the Merchants’ Organization when I was in Endicott on Washington Ave. Few years ago, I was Chairman of the Merchants’ Association here on Court Street. But, when we opened our new store at the Oakdale Mall, seemed it wasn't right for me to be Chairman of the Court Street Businessmen…well, because I had two stores, perhaps competing with the Binghamton merchants. How much more time do we have on this tape? Do you know? Nettie: [unintelligible] Herbert: Let's just speak for a few minutes about the, uh, the settlement of the few Jewish families who did settle in Endicott. Um, in the early 1920s, there were probably a handful, maybe 10 - 15 Jewish families who settled in the Endicott area. Most of these were small merchants that had small shops. Some even started out on Washington Ave. with a little store front and, uh, lived in the back of the store. Uh, over the store. I think that, uh, Shapiro's did - Shapiro's Men's Shop. And Lachman's - Buddy Lachman's parents had a haberdashery store. I think this is how they started. Uh, with a store and a little house - a little apartment behind a store or above a store. So this little handful of people became very much involved…they were never large enough to have their own Jewish congregation. Although, the women saw to it that they got together on a regular basis - that the children were given Jewish education. Uh, we used to drive to Binghamton in a car pool, to a Sunday school every Sunday. And during the week, we went to religious instruction after school. The Endicott school system used to provide a classroom for the Jewish people to have Jewish instruction. And I can remember I had to go off after school. The other kids wanted to play ball or something. And Nick Paks, and Paul Kominos, and some of the Greek kids were going to Greek lessons and we were going Hebrew school. And, and we both had to do the same things after school. So the, um…the Jewish people did cling together because they had a common, common heritage. Common background. Uh, without a, a permanent place of religion to worship in. Uh, arrangements were made to rent space in the Odd Fellows Hall. And the Odd Fellows Hall - which was on Riverview Drive right next door to the American Legion - had big rooms above it. And so, during the High Holy days on Yom Kippur; Rosh Hashanah; the Jewish New Years, we would hold, uh, our religious services in this building. On those, these three days. Oftentimes on Sunday afternoons, uh, a get-together would be held. And using the social facilities on the main floor of this Odd Fellows Hall, we would have a joint, uh, dinner, or program, or such. And again, the children knew each other; everyone was sort of together. And, uh, it was quite a, it was quite an involved, close, closely knit community. The day finally did arrive - I believe in the late 1940s when Temple Beth-El was built - my father and a number of other people were most instrumental in seeing that a building was built. A permanent house of worship. And, uh, this building was built, uh, Jefferson Ave., in Endicott. Interestingly enough, uh, the St. Paul's Episcopal Church was going to do some remodeling and the  church had to be shut down. So that the two congregations got together and shared the use of Temple Beth-El on Sundays. The Episcopal people came to use the facilities, and on Friday and Saturday, the Jewish services were held. Uh, uh…for me to get totally into a discussion involving the basis of the Jewish religion probably would take three/four hours, and I don't know if I'm the most capable person to do that. But, I think it is interesting to note that, uh, many of these people who started out in this community have, have grown and, and settled in Broome County and found their way in prominence…uh, Herb Kline, son of Jim Kline Men's Store, is now a very prominent Binghamton attorney. Bud Lachman, also an attorney. Uh, happens to practice in Endicott; lives in Binghamton. Bruce Becker, whose father was an attorney - following in his father's  footsteps. He’s, uh, an attorney today, as well. Irvin Shapiro, who runs a very fine men's store - following in his father's footsteps. My two brothers are in Endicott running a jewelry business - it goes back to 1990. So that you can see that, ah, a number of these people came to the community, stayed and settled. Sandy Salerson, whose father was a, a well known figure on Washington Ave. now works at, uh, - had his own business for a while with his father-in-law, now works in Montgomery Ward in the appliance department. So that, many of these people are still here. Uh, Murray Shapiro - whose father was manager of Rudolph’s for many, many years - still lives in this community. He’s, uh, holds a position at IBM. And you can see that from this tiny, little community evolved a very strong background of, of people who were involved in the community, and they stayed here, and contributed to it. And were lucky enough to share in those early years when, when they got to know the community of Endicott, and, and they grew up with all, with kids from all over. You know, in those days, the north side was a sort of a no-no place. Today, the north side of Endicott has the most beautiful homes, the most beautiful golf course; it’s, uh, the most elegant, lovely place. Upper Taft Ave., is, is just beautiful. Nettie: Mm-hm. And downtown, which used to be so terrific is, is [chuckles] where- Nettie: [lightly chuckles] Herbert: -all the decay is. So it took 50 years for the tables to turn, but, uh, but it certainly did. And it’s interesting to look back on. Okay? Nettie: Yeah, that’s- Herbert: That would give us something to do. Nettie: Mm-hm. Herbert: How ya doin’? Nettie: Well, Herb, this was very interesting interview, I wanna thank you very much. Herbert: Good. It’ll be interesting to see what it all looks like when we’re done. Nettie: Mm-hm. Okay. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Herbert Levine Subject The topic of the resource Levine, Herbert -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Endicott (N.Y.); Russians -- United States; Jews; Syracuse University; Korean War, 1950-1953; Jewelry trade; Jewelry stores Description An account of the resource Herbert Levine talks of his father's family and their immigration from Russia to the United States because of the religious persecution against the Jewish people. The family initially settled in the lower East Side of New York City. Levine's father, who had apprenticed with a jeweler in Russia, was able to find work in a jewelry factory, but left due to ill health. He then went to an agriculture school and upon graduating went to work on a farm for a short period of time. He then settled in Syracuse, NY where he went to work for his brother as a jewelry salesman. Being able to several languages was advantageous in his sales. During World War I he entered the armed services and was wounded. As a result he received a Purple Heart. Upon returning home he settled in the Triple Cities where he became a successful jewelry salesman because he spoke several languages. He later married and opened a jewelry business in Endicott, NY. Levine briefly talks about his mother's family. Levine also discusses his own life. He attended Syracuse University and after graduation went to work for Kay Jewelers until he was drafted during the Korean War. After the war ended he went to work at his father's jewelry business, Ruby and Sons, which he continued to operate after his father's death. He later sold his interest in the store to his brother and then purchased Van Cott's. He discusses his life in Endicott, as a child and as an adult, the Jewish population in Endicott and the organizations he belonged to. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 70 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/addca401e9f29ed469e6cac9400cf83f.mp3 79abb94447f7571581ac06b708694b19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed McAvoy, James J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-02-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 26:49 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55978">Interview with James J. McAvoy</a> Subject LCSH McAvoy, James J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Hotels -- Employees -- Interviews; Prohibition; Johnson City (N.Y.); Faatz Brush and Felting Works Company Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mr. James S. McAvoy Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 1 February 1978 James: I think we could pull that curtain down. Susan: No, that's fine. Mr. McAvoy could you tell us something about your early recollections of your childhood—something about your parents? James: Well Mother and Father lived together with six children and they're all—two of us is all that's left. I'm the second oldest one and I have a sister. She's alive yet she is 80, she lives in Binghamton. She is 80 years old. The rest of them has all passed away. My mother—my father he was 93 when he died. My mother was 90.  Susan: What kind of work did your father do? James: Eh? Susan: What kind of work? James: Ah he a well a when we were young we used to run a hotel. We run a hotel over in Four Corners for 30-40 years then after that time Prohibition that shut the hotel up so we lived on the farm there for a while and when he got some kind of work he came down here. I stayed on the farm there for a while and I lost all my dairy in the TB test. I said the TB test. My wife was sick quite a little bit that was the girls’ job so my wife she was sick an awful lot she always was such a great worker. She worked too hard on the farm so she was at Sayre Hospital, so she was up there I came up here and got a job. When she got her out we lived on the farm for about a month and I got a house up here and we moved up here that was ‘48 I think. Susan: How much schooling did you have as a youngster? James: How many? I had a 5 girls. Susan: No, no, schooling—school? James: Oh I never had too much school. We only had a country school about the ninth grade. We never got too far in school we never had money enough to go to college so of course them days the colleges were so far away. They wasn't like they are today so, we ain’t got too much education don't think that. We got away with it in the world of course we made a lot of mistakes along as everybody else as long as the graduated people does but a I often missed it but a—so then after we got up here they was better schools up there so I had five daughters and there is two of them graduated down from Meshoppen High School. The other three graduated from Johnson City High School. A—So they well was—I have one daughter who lives up in Hillcrest and I have another daughter who lives over in Endwell and then I have a daughter who lives over on Crisfield in Vestal and then I have one daughter who lives in Meshoppin, PA. Susan: Well, can you tell me something about some of your jobs that you had? James: Ah I—used to be a foreman on the road for a Tillion coal contractor company. I done that for about 3 years. I was Assistant Foreman. I wasn't a big hot shot but I was over all the grading work and all that kind of stuff and they were leaving town then didn't have no jobs so I didn't want to leave home to go with them because they only had about 6 months work on a job or somethin’. So then I come up here and I got a job with Felters and I worked 20 years there. Susan: What kind of work did you do there? James: Well, I ran a machine. I operated a carding machine. Susan: What did they make? I knew of the Felter Co, but E-J's made shoes. James: They made felt—felt—made all kinds of felt—made, oh, I couldn't tell you all the kinds, at that time there were 25 or 30 different kinds of felt. They made felt for the government, made felt for ink pads and anything you want they made it for shoes felt and all that stuff. They were a nice place to work for. The work wasn't hard. It was steady work. Dusty but otherwise twas a nice job to work and they were a nice company to work for so after I got through there they moved out of town when I quit. I was sixty nine years old when I—when they moved out of town, so I—well I done a little painting around, carpentering and I got tired of that and I quit and I didn't do anything ever since. Then my wife got sick and she had a stroke so we stayed home and took care of her for quite a while. Susan: Can you recall of any of the big changes that have happened here? James: That's right. Yeah.  Susan: —in the area since you— James: That's true. Yeah. That of course is a lot of changes in life since we were born. Susan: Were the trolley cars here when you first came here to—was it Lestershire or had it changed to Johnson City? James: It was Johnson City. Yeah—yeah I used often wonder when I was a young kid I'd often wonder I'd like to go to Lestershire—ha ha ha—but when I got there and I found out it was altogether a different place—ha ha ha. Used to hear people at home out in our country about the doom down here a lot of them worked at the shoe factory they’d be telling about Lestershire and next thing we knew it was about Johnson City. Ha ha ha yeah—yeah, so I don't know. Susan: What about some of the buildings I mean can you recall when you first came here—a what it was like? James: Oh there was a lot of business when we first come here and was a lot of places that started business entirely. You could go most anyplace and get a job then. There was the Robinson Lumber Co. and there was the big Spool & Bobbin, the foundry over where the Philadelphia sales is and another factory right down there in Endwell—a—err—Johnson City Heel & Last ah there is a lot of them here that's gone out of business since I come here. Yeah, you could go out most anytime.  Susan: Were there any—a—important events like big fires or things that you recall when you were younger? James: Oh well not up around here that I know of, of course no not really. Of course down in our country Pennsylvania there used to be they lumber that country over, you know, then somebody started a fire clean the brush ha ha cleared the timber off and they were big fires but there were always fires barns and houses burning one thing or another but the country there was never as big fires as you have up here you know. Susan: We've been trying to gather information from people that have worked in the cigar factories that were here at one time. James: The cigar factory fire—well that was before I came up here. Susan: Oh it was. James: That's the time it burned up all them girls but that was a few years before I moved up here. Susan: I see.  James: Yeah. But my girls they all come up here and they all went to work they got jobs and finally all got married so I'm working now. I have one daughter she lives in Massachusetts I don't know something else what you know what happened around here.  Susan: Well is there anything you can tell us about your parents? When they were growing up or any of their customs? What were your people? What background were they? James: What? What? Susan: What background were they? James: Oh they I don’t— Susan: Well you knew that there were a lot of Polish and Russians here. James: Oh they were just common ordinary people you know the ah—yeah—my mother and grandfather, grandmother my grandfather, Carter, he was about 94 years old when he died. Susan: But was he born in this country? James: He was born in a—New York State. Yeah. He was born up here someplace up here. My grandmother was born down in Auburn, Pennsylvania. Her name was Farley and—and like anything else we're scattered all over the country. What do you do live here in Binghamton? Susan: I—I was born in Binghamton and I was brought up in Johnson City. My family is from here. James: Yeah, well my wife she was born in Binghamton—err Pennsylvania too. Susan: Well the McAvoys are quite—quite a well known name in this community. James: Oh yes. Susan: Don’t you have a some of your relatives? James: Cousins of these McAvoys up here Tom, the judge.  Susan: The judge. When I first heard the name I said, “McAvoy, well you must know quite a few people.” James: Yeah. Oh well I don’t know we were never too close together we were always good friends back and forth but you know yet my grandfather used to all I know is what he told me. He said there were six of them, and their parents died when they were young and they were scattered all over the country. Some of then New York, some of them in Scranton and I don't know where he was and I never knew too much about them because he'd never tell ya too much. He was grown up an orphan of some kind then he went west for quite a while when he went out on that gold hunt you know but I guess he never got too much gold. Susan: Your grandfather did or your father did? James: Yeah, well he was past eighty when he passed away. Yeah—yep. Susan: What—what do you think about the changes? What do you think about the changes from a—a the radio when it first came and now television?  James: Do you like television? Well, I think I'll tell ya some that’s all right some that they've gone a little too far with. I do for a fact. Susan: But you have lived to see a lot of changes. James: But not when we were kids—ah we never had television, never radio. I helped build the first telephone line ever to come in our country. There used to be 52 on one line. Susan: Fifty-two, that's interesting. James: Yeah—ha ha yeah. Susan: How about when you first started working for Felters? Can you remember what you earned? James: Yeah, I started in at 80¢ an hour when I started in but I got through I was getting $1.30. Susan: $1.30. James: Yeah, but I was just as well off at the 80¢ as I was with the $1.30 because everything wasn't so high it didn't cost us any more to live at that than when we were getting $1.30 because everything went up so in prices and everything. Yeah. Susan: Can you recall some of the things you did as a young man for entertainment socially? James: Does what? Susan: Can you recall what you did as a young man? I mean from the standpoint of fun, recreation? James: Oh well we used to winter times—we of course you may think it’s funny but we used to there used to be a lot of quilting bees, tying comforter and lot of us get together if you had a quilting bee we'd tie your quilt and then we played checkers, played cards, a lot of dances. They was we had just good times as they have today at least we didn't know any better—ha. But today we didn't have no way you never got so far away from home because about all we had is a horse and wagon 8 and 10 miles was our limit today they don't mind three or four hundred miles with a car—yeah—we all got along. We was never found any fault. Used to have a lot of nice ice cream socials, oyster suppers, dances and all of that. Susan: Did you ever go to those barn raising affairs? James: Oh God, yes. Oh sure. Susan: —to help one another.  James: We had that right along. Yeah. Neighbor build a barn and everybody turned out and helped him. Yeah—there ain't no more of that anymore. Now it's all done mechanically. Yeah, yet I can remember when they used to go to the woods with a broad ax and cut the frames right out in the woods. The old fellows put them together and they'd go together too. Susan: And they lasted a long time. James: Yeah, oh God, last a long time. Well if they used hemlock or pine they'd last for years. Hemlock or hardwood didn't last so long because the worm eat if you didn't keep the roof on it and keep it dry. Yeah most of us built—Our country there was a lot of hemlock and pine. We used that. Susan: Well, Mr. McAvoy it's been nice talking with you. James, Well I'm glad I talked to you too. Susan: It's a lovely day, after all that snow we had.  James: Yeah. Talk to Lena there she's got a better record yeah. Susan: I will, thank you very much. This is Susan Dobandi interviewer and I have been talking with James J. McAvoy who lives at 15 Park St., Johnson City, NY. The date is Feb 1st, 1978. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with James J. McAvoy Subject The topic of the resource McAvoy, James J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Hotels -- Employees -- Interviews; Prohibition; Johnson City (N.Y.); Faatz Brush and Felting Works Company Description An account of the resource James J. McAvoy discusses his childhood working for his family's hotel for about thirty five years before its closure due to the prohibition movement. He talks about working at the Felters Company. As a young man he participated in a barn raising and discusses social activities. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 43 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McAvoy, James J. ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 26:49 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1101a953fd5e698e3690c61fd46501f4.mp3 09234b1106b08dc37c58f39811a0f4d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Boyd, Jeanette Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-02-10 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:10 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55868">Interview with Jeanette Boyd</a> Subject LCSH Boyd, Jeanette -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Social workers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service; Tuberculosis; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Boy Scouts of America; Medicaid; Clinics; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Castle; Conklin (N.Y.) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Jeanette Boyd Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 10 February 1978 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with Mrs. Jeanette Boyd, who lives at 2 Duffey Court, Binghamton, NY. The date is February 10, 1978. Mrs. Boyd, would you please tell us something about your early beginnings: where you were born, something about your parents, any of your recollections of your childhood? Jeanette: Well, I was born on Prospect Street in Binghamton in 1906, and ah, my father then was, ah, connected with the Broome County Humane Society and Welfare Association, and I went to Jarvis Street School, which is now closed of course, ah, and Laurel Avenue School and then to Helen Street School, which is now Thomas Jefferson. Graduated from high school in 1924 and—  We took street cars wherever we wanted to go, ah—to get to school I walked across, ah—ah, Glenwood Ave., where the trains would be stalled on the—on the crossings, and I would have to crawl through the trains to get to school on time and, ah, but we made it very nicely. I used to go skating down in Endicott. We had to walk to Main Street for a streetcar and go down to where Union Endicott School is now—we'd go skating and get all wet and come home on the streetcar and then walk home all the way in from Main Street. We had no cars then, and these days children would stay home and watch television rather than do all of that. And ah— When I graduated in ’24, ah, I went into the Humane Society and worked there for three or four years, and ah, my mother didn't think it was the place for an 18 year old, and I really had a very liberal education. I, ah—I learned much about the birds and the bees and how everything, ah, worked or didn't work, but I survived it, and I'm sure lots of other people would too, but ah, we ah, we housed at that time the Girls Club. Ah, in fact my father started the Girls Club in that building and, ah, bought a building on the same corner for the Boys Club, to house that, and ah, we had clinics in the building. We had the first eye, ear and nose clinic that Dr. Roe had there, and Dr. Bolt, and we had a tuberculosis clinic and a heart clinic, all kinds of clinics in—in that building, and doctors volunteered their time, they were not paid for it, and of course the welfare work was done by my father and with a lot of George F. Johnson's money. Susan: Give his name now. Jeanette: Ah, Sam Koerbel, and ah, we also had Children's Court in that building and on the top floor we had a children's detention. He would not put the children in the jail, so we made a jail up on the top floor and had delinquent children up there and we had a colored family, a negro couple who ah—who were the attendants up there and, ah, so that the children did not go into the big jails the way they do now with the adults or anything of this kind. They did not go into courts. They went into just their own small Children's Court and the welfare work, as I say, was done there, the ah—ah, people who—the separated couples, ah, the men had, ah, to come in and pay each week, and then the women would come in and get the checks and so that we could know that they were paying their alimony and the people, their families were not going hungry and— Down in the basement George F. Johnson had a—had a clothing bank, and the children came in after school with their sizes that the teachers had written, sizes of clothing, and ah, we would give them coats, underwear, at that time they were wearing long underwear, and they would come in so wet and bedraggled, but we'd fit shoes on them. Then at Christmas time, of course, the school sent in many lists of sizes and we would do them up in bundles and deliver them to the houses. We had an English investigator, a lady, Elizabeth, I don't know what her last—Anderson was her name, Andy, and ah, she would go out and check the families that wanted welfare and, ah, if they were dirty she wouldn't give them one thing. She'd come in storming and she'd say, "Don't give that family one thing. I gave them some soap powder and some soap. Those kids have got to be cleaned up, the house has got to be cleaned up. I'm going back tomorrow, and if they're clean they can have some food and clothing, otherwise they can't have a thing.” So, usually they were cleaned up, and I guess from that I say that families who are on welfare may not have much money, but they can be clean and I have not much use for—for dirty people, and I think maybe that Andy was at the bottom of that and, ah— Susan: I might say they need an Andy now. Jeanette: They do, oh, she was a little spitfire. She was English and she told those people what they could do and what they couldn't do, and they were scared to death of her.  [Telephone rings].  I, ah—I don't know just exactly what, ah—what, ah, you'd like to, ah, hear. We, ah, in the office we also did dog licenses. We had to go through the, ah—the books once a year and, ah, we had to send the men out. Of course we—we had the dogs under our jurisdiction too, dogs and cats, and my grandfather was dog catcher at one time. In fact the way my father got started in the Humane Society was to become the dog catcher, for the first time way, way back, and ah, he ran away from home when he was eleven years old in Waterville, NY, and ah, made his way to Binghamton and worked in a grocery store here, then became dog catcher and eventually was the Humane Officer here. [Telephone rings.] And another thing that might be interesting, ah, George F. Johnson had an office for my father down in the tannery office in Endicott, and out of that he worked welfare in Endicott. Or he would make arrangements for them to come to Binghamton for welfare work, then along in 1923 or ’24, I just don't remember, George F. Johnson had my father buy the Castle on the Conklin Road, and ah, at that time there was a lot of tuberculosis in the welfare families and, ah, July, for instance, they had girls and in August they had boys from these tubercular families, and ah, this was free, of course, and ah, in fact the first time that they had these, ah, little camps, my mother and an aunt had them right in our farmhouse there, where we used to go in the summertime, and ah, turned two or three rooms into dormitories—had the girls, ten or twelve, in July, and boys, and then out of these groups they, ah, had them stay all winter in this castle that they eventually bought, and the garage was made into a school and they had their own school teacher, and ah, there was an underground passage from the Castle to the garage that the children thought was wonderful, and of course the Castle has now been given by George F. Johnson to the Town of Conklin and it is town offices now, used for town parties and that kind of thing, but ah, it had, oh, a great big stove and, ah, of course they had a dining room with a lot of tables in there. It was a real school, and ah, one of the cooks used to bake angel food cakes on the ledge in the furnace and of course the children thought that that was wonderful. She said it was a nice, even heat, and she would put her cake tin right in there on that ledge and, ah, and then the—the, when the children were well and, ah, had been fed and fattened up a little bit, then they went home and the next summer another group would come in, and out of that they would choose the children that needed it the most and then they would stay a year, and this was all with George F. Johnson's money through the Humane Society and, ah, during the Depression. Oh, there, the Humane Society building was an old hotel and it had what used to be a ballroom and, ah, they had soup lines in there and we used to serve the people soup, mostly men as a rule would come, not families but men, and ah, then they—we would cook big—ah, big pots of pork and sauerkraut and, ah, then, of course as I said, they say, ah—they had the Girl Scouts there. They had showers for the girls, some of them never had baths any other time if they didn't take a shower then, and ah, the Humane Society originated, ah, in the City Hall, so I have been very interested in Alice Wales and her committee working to preserve the City Hall, because the policemen were on the first floor and I knew all of them by name when I was along, eight-nine-ten years old, and ah, the Humane Society offices were on the second floor and I used to stay there while my mother went shopping. I'd much prefer playing in that City Hall building so I have felt, ah, very interested in preserving that—that building, ’cause I think it's worth it regardless of the amount of money. I don't know if there is anything else that you'd like to know or not? Susan: Well, I think it would be interesting to compare how the people felt about receiving help in the old days? Jeanette: Well, of course they—they felt ashamed at that point to, ah—to have to go on welfare, although many of them had to during the Depression, but the men did work, uh, and were allowed to work even though they were receiving welfare. They were encouraged to work, which they are not, which doesn't happen these days. They don't encourage them to work at all. If they can get something for free, why, that's just great and, ah, but I think people have lost their—their sense of responsibility towards the public, to ah, they would rather go and collect their welfare checks and their food stamps and, ah, they have big cars and televisions, and in those days they were not allowed to drive up to get welfare with a car, neither did they come in taxis. They came on streetcars and they took their clothing home on the streetcars and, ah, they were given Christmas baskets from Volunteers and Salvation Army and the Humane Society, but they cooperated so that there were not duplicates and I—I think they try these days, but ah, not to have duplicates, but I think that the people are so grabby that they will take two or three baskets if it's handed to them, and I know I have taken, ah, families out just recently to buy things for Christmas, and it's amazing that some women are quite conscious of the price and what she buys for 50¢ or 75¢, while another woman, knowing that it's free, will ah, grab the highest price can of coffee off the shelf until I make her put it back. I don't buy that myself, but let’s buy something else instead of buying the best, you know, but they think they should have the best. Susan: So many of them buy so much junk food and do not cook good nourishing meals for their children. Jeanette: That's right, that's right. This family that I'm helping now is a family of twelve children. She never bakes her own cakes. She was getting a frozen pie and a frozen cake, and I said, "That's ridiculous, I don't buy those, they're too expensive. We'll buy a box cake,”—oh no, she wouldn't have anything to do with that, and I said, “Do you have a cake tin?” “No.” So I said, “Well let’s—let’s buy something cheaper, we'll buy cookies then,” and well, she didn't bake cookies either, and I—I just can't understand this. I—I never went hungry, but I always baked my own cookies and my own cakes and my own pies. Susan: Well nowadays the popular thing is to go to McDonalds as soon as they get their checks. Jeanette: Of course, of course. Susan: Burger King—yes—Kentucky Chicken. Jeanette: But I just couldn't believe it, that she didn't do any baking with twelve children. I said, “You can bake a cake for 50¢ plus two eggs.” Susan: Are you still active in—n some form of welfare? Jeanette: No. I just do—do some through the church. Susan: Oh, through the church. Jeanette: We have a used clothing bank there, and we send to four mission churches in the south regularly and help them at Christmastime, but it is also open to people on welfare in Binghamton, so that is, that's the way I became acquainted with this family of twelve children, that they had heard through the grapevine, I suppose, that we had clothing. Susan: Is she the one you were telling me about the birth control pill? Jeanette: Yes, yes, and she was quite upset—she wanted clothing too, and I offered her several coats but no, she wanted a short coat. She wanted a pants coat, you know, and I said, “Well, of course this is not a store, we have only, ah, what people bring in to us,” and I offered her some dresses and no, she, she'd rather have blue jeans, so she went away with nothing, and her husband did take some shirts and a coat, but ah, some of the things that I offered her, said, oh well, her children wouldn't like that, and I said, well, if it did keep her warm. Susan: They' re very choosy. Jeanette: I think that they should be very happy to have them, but I, they have a car and of course it's the only way that they can get around, I suppose, with twelve children. You do have to buy groceries. They live up on Front Street now, but they've moved four or five times in the two years that I've known them. Now I don't know whether they don't pay their rent or what happened to them. It’s most discouraging when you try to help somebody and, ah, then they—they turn you down with things that would keep them warm, at least. Susan: They're talking about welfare reform and we certainly need it. Jeanette: I'd like to sit on that committee, but I'm sure that I won't be asked, ha ha, but I—I do think that, ah—ah, maybe one with gray hair on that might do some good if they could go back to some principles, at least, and not feel that, well, these people have it due them—well, I don't think that they do if they don't work, I—I don't think that work ever hurt anyone, and I think that we should support ourselves as long as we can and as much as we can and, ah, these teenagers that get married and don't have jobs, I—I don’t think that they should be allowed to marry— Susan: —or live together. Jeanette: Ha. That's right, that's right, and ah, they go in with these food stamps ahead of me in line, college kids, and ah, I don"t think that's necessary, if ah—if they can't afford to go to college then there are loans, and I'm sure that some of their families, ah, are well to do, and yet the kids come up here and get food stamps, and I—I don't think that's right for our county or state to pay for this kind of thing. Susan: For out of state students. Jeanette: That's right, and ah, of course they go around looking like ragamuffins, so maybe that's the way they get their food stamps, but ah— Susan: I think it's a way of getting a little pocket money. Jeanette: It's a way of getting something, I'm just not sure what it is, but I—I think it annoys me because these college kids can get a job. They can work in the summertime, my grandchildren do and, ah, but why should they, when they can get food stamps and have it handed to them? Susan: Is there anything else that you would like to go back over? Jeanette: Well, I—I really can't think of anything else. Susan: Oh, they never gave any, ah, cash to the people when in the early days it was just food and clothing? Jeanette: That's right, we had—we had grocery stores that were available for this kind of thing, and of course they were independent grocery stores then, and food was, or we bought it, wholesale. There were wholesale, well, like Darling & Co., I don't know whether they were, I think they were still in business then, but at least we bought hams and turkeys and all of that kind of thing, wholesale potatoes, wholesale, and ah, then we would make up the baskets ourselves or, I mean at Christmastime, or we would just get an order at a store, and no, the people were not given cash and I don’t give cash to the people who help me—that I am helping. I go with them shopping, and I pay the bill, I—I don't trust them. I'm sorry but I, ha—I just don't. I—I think they would go out and buy beer and cigarettes, all that kind of thing. I don't think that's the way to help people. Susan: Well, the principle that the system is working under now is that they are trying to teach them how to manage their money, but they do not pay for the things that the money is given to them for. Jeanette: That's right. That’s right. Susan: And I would like to see some changes made there. Jeanette: Yeah. No. They won't, not the people these days.  Susan: The majority of them. Jeanette: I—I think before, we had a lot of foreigners, a lot of Slavić people over around the first ward, and I know when my husband died I—I sold real estate for a couple of years, and I went up on the hill, ah, back of Glenwood Ave., and there was an old German, I don't think she was German, at any rate she was foreign, and ah, the woman with me introduced me and she said, “I—I think you, ah, probably knew this woman's father, Sam Koerbel.” Oh, then the woman spoke very brokenly and, ah, she said, “Oh, Sam Koerbel, we just couldn't have lived through the Depression without him,” so you see, it was mostly first ward people that, ah, that we helped for some reason or another. We did others, too, but I—I think my memory is, is more of the foreign class that perhaps came over and couldn't get jobs, or couldn't get enough work for their big families, and ah, some of them were E-J workers and if they didn't have the work, why, then of course we helped them out, but ah, we were busy all day long with the people coming to the—to the, ah, windows there and taking their histories, and it would be all through a child's life until they were up to seventeen or eighteen years old. I know a lot of them now that we had on welfare, I see their names and they're in business and they've made names for themselves. Susan: Made names for themselves, not third and fourth generation welfare— Jeanette: That's right, that's right. Susan: —recipients. Jeanette: Yeah, they were willing to work, and I think, to go back to Andy, maybe her teaching of cleanliness— Susan: —cleanliness— Jeanette: You've got to be clean and you've got to help yourself or you don't have any welfare, and I think that just maybe, maybe they were taught the right way, I don't know, and being helped in the clinics and the delinquents. I know one, one in town who is in business now, was definitely a delinquent. He was on parole for, oh, two or three years. He'd come in every week to, ah—to sign in and tell us what he was doing, you know, but he learned his lesson the hard way. Yeah. Susan: Do you want to comment on the difference in the children in the old days as against the, ah, now generation? Jeanette: Oh, well, the children were disciplined, and they didn't find fault with their teachers and they didn't talk back to their teachers. If a teacher told you to do something, you did it. You, ah, you didn't question it, and it was the same with your—your parents, of course. The one reason that there was welfare, to talk about discipline, I—I think that the men would get their checks and they would go to the saloon and, ah, down on Glenwood Ave. there was a saloon that my father raided periodically and, ah, he would finally have the women come in, and the men would have to bring their checks in to us and then the women would come in to get them, but ah, the ah, I know my grandmother was helping a family right close to us, and they were Slavić and he was a drunk and didn't have any money for—for food, and my grandmother was so mad she went right down, and he was a little bit of a thing and she just shook him, she just shook him practically off—off the feet, ha ha. She came home laughing about it and she said, “Well, I don't think Pete's going to get drunk right away again because I shook so hard,” and he had been beating up his wife, and you know, I don't know whether it did any good, but I often think about seeing my grandmother shake this man, and you don't do that these days, if you went in and shook anybody and tried to make them behave you'd be taken into court. Susan: There are too many rights to be— Jeanette: That's right and that's too bad, that's too bad. I know one night my father had a telephone call around 10 o'clock and they said, “Sam, there is two or three young boys gone up into the cemetery in back of us and they've been trying to get into my house, but I saw them run up in the cemetery,” and my father just casually got out his gun and walked up the road and said, “You fellows come on out, I've got a gun on you,” and they walked out, and you know you wouldn't dare do that these days, you'd get the police force, the FBI, and everybody else out, but he just came down, he called the patrol and they came and got them and took them over to his—his, ah, detention, and the next day he had them in Children's Court. I—I believe they were scared to death of him. “I'm Sam Koerbel, come out, I've got a gun.” Everyone knew him. So they just, ah, they just did it as Sam Koerbel said, and even now my children will say, “Well, I'm sorry that those kids don't have a Sam Koerbel to put them right.” I—I just wish that he was around, I wonder what he'd do. Well, I think he'd put them to work first. I—I don't believe I have anything else. Susan: Well, I think it's been very enjoyable talking with you. We agree on a good many points, Mrs. Boyd. Thank you very much for the interview. Jeanette: You’re welcome, you’re welcome. Susan: Mrs. Boyd, could we go back a little bit and give us a little more information about, ah, after you left your father's office and went on with your own personal life? Jeanette: Well, I was married in 1927 to a man that I had, ah, grown up with from the sixth grade and, ah, they had been neighbors of ours, and ah, we had two children, ah, Richard and Shirley. Four years apart, and ah, shortly after we were married, six months, we discovered he was a diabetic, so for the thirty-five years that we were married, ah, we battled diabetes, but ah, he was the kind that said, “I've got it and we will not talk about it.” So, we never did, so we just lived with it, and of course we had our two children after that and we lived on Floral Ave. at that time, on the second floor of my father's house. During the Depression, ah, my husband was out of work so we went into the heating contracting business, and ah, we ah, eventually, well, he installed oil burners and stokers at that time, and ah, we eventually through the years had an oil fuel oil delivery service, and I did all of his office work and made all my children's clothes, of course. In those days you didn't go out to the store and buy things, and ah, he finally worked into just industrial work and school work within a hundred miles and, ah, in 1951 my mother sold that house, my father died in 1947 and in ’51 she sold the Floral Ave. house, and we built and we went over on Stone Road on the south side, we built a house and she had her apartment on the second floor, she became an invalid, and my children, ah, graduated from Central High and North High. Dick went on to RPI on a scholarship, and ah, he has been an electrical engineer for Stromberg Carlson in Rochester and, ah, for them went to Denver and worked on some government work and into California and back to Rochester, and then he went in with TRW Systems, and he has six children and he has moved ten times in twenty years and, ah, every time they move I go and babysit, since my husband died fourteen years ago. I go wherever they are and I babysit, and so that I've gotten around the country pretty well, and my daughter, ah, married a electrical engineer in Stromberg, went to Rochester and she still lives there and she has two children, and ah, they both have good jobs now, and he went into the printing business and lost a great deal of money, but we pulled out of there after three or four years, and I’ve—he’s had a sick mother, and I’ve gone up for a week or two at a time and helped take care of her and, ah, we are a very close family. Ah, if I hear of bad weather on the coast we call and if, Dick called me the other morning at a quarter after seven, his time, and of course my first question at that hour of the day is, “What’s wrong? When do you want me?” and ah, so that, ah, he's concerned about us too, and I have done Y.W. work. I was on the board with the, oh, Peg Prentiss, and oh, a lot of the women, you would know if I could name them, for twenty or twenty-five years, ah, on and off the board on all kinds of committees through reorganizations, ah, to conventions. I did Girl Scout work when Shirley was working—I, err, was growing up—I ah, had a Girl Scout troop, she didn't have a leader, so I went to their, ah, training sessions and had thirty-five girls for three or four years while she was growing up, and my husband and father-in-law were in Boy Scouts work, I, they made headdresses, and I had feathers all over my house because the boys would come there and work in the living room and in the kitchen and I, I just wondered if I'd turn into a Boy Scout myself, and of course they all went to Boy Scout and Girl Scout camp. Church work, I've done a little bit of everything in, in church work. I've been an elder and a deaconess in the Presbyterian Church and, ah, when Rick and his wife, ah, were in Rochester, they helped start a Presbyterian Church there in Kenfield and it’s still going, and Horky and I gave them their first Communion set, ah, for the church and ah, oh, I don’t know, we've done so many things and, ah, we did a lot of traveling after our children were grown up. We'd take the month of May and just travel, and then when my husband died I took a course in real estate and sold real estate for two years, but that was a little bit rough for me. I—I couldn't quite manage real estate and I answered an ad—a blind ad, of course, in the Press, and ah, got this job at the Herlihy Trucking Co., and I’ve been there now, well, it will be twelve years in September, and shortly after I was there, about a year after I was there, the only other woman in the office, the bookkeeper and everything, was found dead in bed, so I was sort of thrown into bookkeeping and I am still in it, only two and a half days a week, and I tell them I'm really not needed, but they say, “Who would boss us if you weren't here and who would keep us in line?” So I'm still going. Susan: At 72. Jeanette: At 72. Susan: You're going to be 72. Jeanette: I will be 72 next week, uh huh. Susan: Well that's wonderful. Jeanette: And I drive to Rochester, ah, when I feel like it, winter or summer, and people say, “You drove up?” and ah, when my son was in Virginia I drove down there, it was six hours and I’d just pack up and go. I—it never occurred to me that I couldn’t do it. I'd always done it and it just never occurred to me that I couldn’t do it, and ah, I don't know that there is anything else—my daughter is a busy in church work and she, ah, often says in some of her problems and she’ll write or call up and she'll say, “Well, I pulled a Jeanette Boyd today, I just told them what they were going to do.” (Chuckle.) And so I have a real reputation, I guess, even with the bowlers, ah, we bowl on the grandmothers’ team and, ah, one girl that I—I didn't know that she ever paid any attention to me, and ah, we got up from our coffee break and I said, “All right, let’s get going here, let’s get going,” and she said, “There she goes again on her soap box,” so I—I guess I have a reputation of being a boss, but I—l don't mean to be that way. Susan: You're a very active person and you can be very, very proud of yourself, Mrs. Boyd. Jeanette: Well, thank you. Susan: Thanks again, this gives us a better idea of the kind of person I have been interviewing. Thank you. Bye bye. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jeanette Boyd Subject The topic of the resource Boyd, Jeanette -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Social workers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service; Tuberculosis; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Boy Scouts of America; Medicaid; Clinics; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Castle; Conklin (N.Y.) Description An account of the resource Jeanette Boyd talks about her life in Binghamton, NY as an active social worker for the Broome County Humane Society and Welfare Association. She discusses the current welfare system, and the first clinics for ear, nose, heart and tuberculosis. She discusses the "Castle" in the Town of Conklin and its purchase by George F. Johnson to be used as a camp for children of tubercular families. She talks about her family's involvement with the Girls Scouts and Boy Scouts organizations. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 6 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boyd, Jeanette ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-10 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:10 Minutes