5 10 75 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0b036aa709027d62ffc94983e980e496.mp3 0a72b745cf136821f127f2341fc6852a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-03-03 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:02 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55919">Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus</a> Subject LCSH Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 3 March 1978 Jenny: I came here in 1914, I was about 12 years old and I came to Ellis Island. They kept me there for three days until my aunt put up a $500 bond for me— Anna: Go on. Jenny: —Then I came here, then I went to school for a while and I liked it, and I said, “I'm going to work for Endicott Johnson,” and I started working. I was 14 years old in E.J., then I went to the cigar factory for $2.00 a week, and I was doing a little housework for 50 cents a week and it was, kind of hard, so then—what do you want me to say? Anna: Where. Jenny: I worked in the shoe factory, then when the work was slow I went to the cigar factory. It wasn’t hard to get a job. When it was bad in the cigar factory we went back to the shoe factory and work like that, and I was young, I got married and then I had the children one after the other, but I was working in E.J. Anna: How many children did you have? Jenny: Four children, and well, we had to go to work for 8 and 9 dollars a week. That, and then my husband died, I was 28 years old and I had 4 small children, then I was working, and then I got so sick that the doctor put me out from the factory, and so I make a living home. I had baseball players, roomers, and took care of the kids on the street, and made a living like that, and everything. I was a widow for 14 years, and I got married again, and then I had operations, one after the other, and have half of my stomach out and all those things, and a Pacemaker, and now they took my both feet off, amputated, and I—one was maybe below the knee at two year ago. And a year ago they had to take the other one off, so I am in a nursing home paying $2500 a month. Is it going? Anna: Yes, go on. Jenny: It was kinda hard and it is hard now, I had one boy that was killed in 1942, in a car accident with another boy, and then my other son died, was 49 years old. I have one son in Arizona. A daughter is here living on Front Street, and she's not well either, she don’t come up to see me much, she can’t. And well, I'm in a bed most of the time, and in a wheelchair. They put me on about 1:30 and then I stay in the wheelchair about 2 hours or so, and then they put me back in bed, and so I'm in bed most of the time. Anna: You were saying that you liked sports. Jenny: Baseball. I used to have the baseball players living up to my house, and I used to cook for them and do their washing, and then they had a write-up about the baseball park, how they—once in a while I went to the ballgames, and they had fights there. And wrestling, I used to like to go and see that, and I play Bingo a lot. Even we play Bingo every Monday here. (Cough). Anna: And when you were young, what did you do for amusement? Jenny: I didn't have time, I had washing and then ironing to do all the time. Anna: Did you ever go dancing? Jenny: No, I didn’t. I would sneak out and I went to Bingo. Anna: Did you ever go to Ross Park, or to the band concert? Jenny: No, I didn't have time for that. I used to play Bingo. I used to take care of the children and the chickens, and garden and canning, all day. Anna: How much did you can every year? Jenny: About one thousand quarts, everything from the garden—pear trees, cherry trees. Anna: That’s the way people lived those days. Jenny: Yes, those days that’s the way you did. We didn't make much money. It was better for me to stay home than have somebody to take care of the children and I every way, different ways. Anna: Your children are all grown up, anyway. Jenny: Now, yes, one son is in Arizona, going to have open heart surgery, yes, and I don’t know when, maybe next week, someday. Anna: Could you remember, think of anything else? Jenny: No, was busy all the time with cooking and baking, and I worked in the Johnson City Legion for about seven years, had had charge of the kitchen there and I worked there for fifty cents an hour. Anna: Can you think of anything else? Jenny: No, that’s it. Anna: Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Subject The topic of the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Description An account of the resource Jenny Tokos Gaidorus talks about immigrating through Ellis Island and then moving to Johnson City, NY where she worked in a cigar factory and the Endicott Johnson Corporation. She discusses being a widow and raising her children alone. She supported herself by renting rooms in her house to baseball players. She discusses her medical conditions and operations she underwent, which resulted in moving into a nursing home. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 25 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-03 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 24:02 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/669a47054fde83aa900d3d8045b2c49b.mp3 777d85c2963cd6e029a9f93e038d12cb https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dcae8cb5a12052e457724e4d47cad181.mp3 a05fd0ec38da06260cbeecc347133da5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Polansky, Joe Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-05-30 Subject LCSH New York State Athletic Commission; Jack O'Brien; Jack Sharkey; Johnson Field; Kalurah Temple. Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:14 Minutes ; 5:31 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56087">Interview with Joe Polansky</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Joe Polansky Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 22 February 1978 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil, and I’m speaking to Joe Sheppe Polansky. 54 Glenwood Avenue, Binghamton, New York. The date is February 22, 1978. Okay, ah, Joe, would you, ah, relate to me your life and working experiences in the community with emphasis on your affiliation with the boxing profession? Joe: Well, the boxing profession? Dan: Yeah, you can start out with that. [Referring to outline that he had been given earlier] Joe: Well, first I want to say that I was born June 18, 1902 in Coaldale, Pennsylvania in Schuylkill County in the coal mining fields and, ah…at the age of 16 my Father died and being the first - the oldest - boy of the family, nine, I went to work in the mines. And, eh, my education consisted of first year High School and then I had to go into the mines. I worked in the mines for one year and during that time I was boxing as an amateur, and boxing as an amateur at that time was 1918, during the War, and we had amateur fights all throughout the coal regions and I participated in all of them. They had, ah, community sings which consisted of boys being draft- eh, asked to get into the service, and they had boxing bouts at all those meetings, and I participated in every one. And I was very successful in the amateur ranks, knocking out a number of  boys, and, ah, at one time, I had two fights in one night. The first fight and the last fight. Because winning them both - knocking both boys out and, ah, my employment at that time? Well, I worked sporadically, learning the barber trade which I worked at time and time again because I was busily training for the fights, and I started my career in Tunakwa, Pennsylvania Hall. I scored four knockouts in a row then I, at that time, I met a lot of tough coal region boys. I was trained by the Chief of Police of my home town Coaldale, P.A. His name was James Foagallagher. He took great interest in me and at one of the fights I knocked out a soldier boy, and the soldier boy was very popular at that time so I wasn't so popular myself by knocking him out, however, that night Tiny Maxwell was the principle speaker at the banquet and Tiny Maxwell was a great sportswriter of the Philadelphia newspaper, and after I knocked both those boys out, the following week I was in the Philadelphia - Jack O’Brien’s gymnasium in Philadephia - training. I stayed there for 10 days, taking my training course from the great Philadelphia Jack O'Brien. And, ah, after I got through there, I boxed in Allentown, Pottsville, Lansford, Flagstaff, P.A., Nesquehoning, P.A., and a number of others - Reading and on to Philadelphia. Again, to box. Ah…that was what I called my employment at that time, was boxing and ah…(will ya shut that off now?). After I got through boxing in Philadelphia, I came to Binghamton for a 10 day vacation and, ah, I was working out at the YMCA and Smut Smith, who was Sports Editor of the Binghamton Sun, came over to the YMCA to watch me work out and he told, after watching me work out he says to me, he says, "What do you weigh?" I said, "135 pounds." He says, "Would you like to fight next Friday?" Here I'm in town only 5 days and Friday night was the big Binghamton Sun Community, ah, Contest that was run every year by the Sun Bulletin for, ah, some charitable affair and, ah, he says, "You're on to fight next Friday night." I said, "OK." So, Friday night came and there’s, the Kalurah Temple was packed to the hilt and that night I knocked out a young fellow - a very popular Binghamton boy by the name of Billy Kinney - and that night was one of the most notable nights in my career because I met George F. Johnson. I met Mayor Tom Wilson and that time Senator Billy Hill - those were the three men I met that night I was in my, my first night in town. I, ah, and it was a great entry for me into the City of Binghamton. [inaudible] And, ah, at that time, I was living in Johnson Field right across from the ballpark and every morning I used to run around the ballpark to get my exercise and, ah…from then on, I kept boxing here in the City of Binghamton; Endicott; Johnson City; Syracuse; Rochester; Buffalo. And that was the start of my, my, ah, entry into Binghamton. Talking about George F. Johnson, I met George F. Johnson a week later. And, ah, I says to Mr. Johnson that I would like to buy one of the E.J. homes. Mr. Johnson answered me, and he says, "Joe, the only one man, people can buy an E.J. home, are people who work for Endicott Johnson." And I said, "Well, I'm sorry, Mr. Johnson," but I said, "I'm thinking I know a man who wants to sell me their home and, ah, on Carlton Street, and I'd like to buy it." Three days later, Mr. Johnson called me to his office and he says, "Joe." He says, "You asked me about buying the E.J. home." I says, "Yes, I'd like to get my Mother up here and my family." "Well,” he says, "you have a sister working for me, haven't you?" I says, "Yeah, she's been working for ya for the past 20 years." He says, "Well, have her sign on the Deed and you can buy the home." And that’s how I bought the home at 40 Carlton Street, Johnson City - where we lived for many, many years. [inaudible] Dan: Ah, what year did you come to Binghamton, Joe? Joe: May 16, 1921. Dan: Okay…and, ah, the reason was to, to…what was the reason you came to Binghamton, was for vacation, and you came to visit your sister? Joe: That’s right. [inaudible] Her name is Mrs. Anna Gavula. Dan: Gavula? Okay. Joe: She lived on Broad Street, right across from the ballpark. Dan: Okay, so you bought the house on Carlton Street? Joe: That’s right. Dan: Okay, and then from where then, then what did you do? After you bought the house - I mean, did you continue boxing? Joe: Yes. Oh, I continued boxing until, uh…until 1929. Dan: Until 1929. And that’s when you retired from actually, from actually- Joe: That's right. That’s right. Dan: Uh-huh. And then, wha - and then what? Joe: I retired from boxing, and then I became the boxing instructor of the YMCA. Dan: I see. Uh-huh. Joe: And after - during that time, though, I was a boxing commissioner - ah, no, a boxing commissioner, ah…the boxing commissioner at that time was, um…Tom Farley. Dan: Tom Farley? Joe: Jim Farley. Dan: Oh, the Postmaster? Joe: Brother of the Postmaster General. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And I was interested in getting on the boxing commission, however it didn't get on there for awhile. But from 1930 until 1933, I was a New York State referee of boxing and wrestling, and after 1933…in 1937…I was, ah, boxing instructor at the old Binghamton Police gymnasium. Then Senator Lehman appointed me as Boxing Commissioner, ah, Inspector of the State Athletic Commission. Dan: That was in 1937? Joe: That - 1937. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And I was on it, nine - from 1937 until 1972. Dan: Mm-hm. As a boxing commissioner - er, boxing instructor, rather? Joe: That’s right. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: That’s what I think is 35 years altogether. Dan: Mm-hm. Now Joe, as a boxing referee, were the bouts that you refereed locally or were they all over? Joe: All over New York State. Dan: And, and what, eh-? Joe: Buffalo, Utica, ah…Auburn, Elmira, Binghamton, and all the other cities that had boxing bouts at that time. Dan: Mm-hm. And, uh, in your travels, did you, ah, meet any, ah, notables? Joe: Well, the most notable was the, the boxing bouts that I had was some of Carmen Basilio's Championship fights in Syracuse. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And, ah…what'd I say? Well, Jack Sharkey was my famous, my favorite, ah, ah, man that I met in New York City at all the fights ‘cause he came down from his, ah, place in Boston, and I met him at all the fights in New York. And, ah, we always went out together, and we've been wonderful friends ever since. And, ah…Sharkey, to me, was a great fighter. He should, uh, when he was boxing Jack Dempsey, he was beating Jack Dempsey until Jack Dempsey really fouled him, and the he looked away and the first thing you know, Jack Dempsey hit him on the chin and knocked him out. Dan: In what year was that, Joe? Joe: 1928 or -29, I'm, uh… Dan: Uh-huh. Joe:I’m not sure. Dan: Yeah. Joe: I can't tell. Dan: Now, now Jack Sharkey's given name was, what? Joe: Za k- Z-A-U-K-A-U-S-K-A-S.[sic] Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: Zukauskas. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: Joe Zukauskas. Dan: And they lived on the lower end of Clinton Street. Down, ah, where…where that shop is now. I can't think of the name of it. Dan: And how did, did, Joe happen to, ah, or Jack happen to get into the boxing, ah, profession? How did Jack Sharkey happen-? Joe: Jack Sharkey was in the Navy. And that’s where he learned to box. And, uh…after he got out of the Navy, he, he was one of the first boxers to box Harry Wills. Jack Dempsey was Champion at the time and the color line was drawn pretty close, and Jack Dempsey would not fight Harry Wills. Dan: In what year was this, Joe? Joe: In, uh, the early - the late 20s. Dan: Late 20s. Joe: And, ah, Jack Sharkey fought Harry Wills despite the color line and beat Harry Wills at the time, and that made him very popular because Jack Dempsey wouldn't fight Harry Wills, yet Sharkey did and beat him. It wasn't whether Dempsey was afraid of him or what, but Sharkey fought him and beat him. And that's what made him a very popular fighter at that time. And, ah…Jack Sharkey visited here immediately after he got out of the Navy in 1924, I believe, -25, and he was my guest at, uh, the Carlton Hotel at that time and, ah…we went out on dates together at the time. And, ah, he was boxing under the name of…well, I think it was “Jack Sharkey” at that time, too. And, ah, he fought in Syracuse. He fought in Syracuse, eh, I don't know, I think it was -26, -27 in 1927. And, ah…Sharkey was not the most popular guy in Binghamton at that time because of something that happened previous to when he went into the Navy, which I don't know anything about. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And, ah… Dan: Now, was - wasn’t he known, eh, as the Boston Gob? Joe: That’s right. that’s right. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Yeah. Yes, he was. Dan: And he retired in what year? Do you remember…Joe? Joe: After the, in the…late 30s, I think. Dan: In the late 30s? Joe: Sometime after  the - after 1930. Dan: Uh-huh. And what do you recall of, uh - the Max Schmeling training here for his fight with Jack Sharkey? Joe: Well, at that time he, uh, uh, as I just said, he wasn't the most popular, and that’s why George F. Johnson invited Max Schmeling to train in Endicott, and he trained at the old dance hall in Endicott. And, ah, I went down there quite often to watch him train because, ah, I knew his manager and some of his trainers through, ah, being on, ah…in boxing in New York. And, ah…I already knew him pretty well. I…I didn't get to meet, ah, Schmeling very often, but I met him a number of times down there and we talked. But the greatest athlete I think I ever met was a football player, and a baseball player, and a great Indian. And you know who he is? Dan: Jim Thorpe. Joe: Jim Thorpe. I met Jim Thorpe in Kalurah Temple. He came here with a wrestler by the name of Indian, Indian…Stock, I think his name was. and Bill Irving, who was one of the fi - allplayers here at that time…ah, was an old friend of Jim Thorpe. And we three of us sat in Kalurah Temple for two hours in the, the, ah…in the dressing room talking about old times, when Jim Thorpe played with the, with the baseball team in, in Ohio with Bill Irving. Ah…his early, ah, training in…at the…ah, University he attended at that time. And, ah, he was telling us about coming to Philadelphia for the ge - for the, eh, All-Star track events in Philadelphia, which was a yearly, was one of the, the biggest attractions throughout all, uh, colleges. And they waited, waited for the team to come in with Jim Thorpe from, uh, his university. It was an Indian School. Dan: Yeah. Joe: And, ah, I just can't think of the name- Dan: Carlisle? Joe: Carlisle College. And they waited for Carlisle College to come in on the train, and Erie, the Princeton team come in - they had 24, ah, runners. The Yale team come in, they had about 36 participants. And when the Carlisle team come off the, off the train, there was just 4 Indian runners and Jim Thorpe was one of ‘em. And he, that day, at the Philadelphia races, he won all the track events. And here they waited for ah ah the teams to come in and this team come in with only 4 men on it: Jim Thorpe and three other Indians - but Jim Thorpe was the main one that won most the race - all the races - all the track events that, that afternoon. So, it was a great day for me because I knew Tiny Maxwell - Tiny Maxwell was a sports editor of the Philadelphia Ledger, I believe it was at that time. And he was a personal friend of my manager's. My manager was a, a man who run a restaurant in Philadelphia and ah, and ah, him and Tiny Maxwell were very close friends, and that’s how I, I happen to…happen to know him.  Dan: Mm-hm. Now, who were some of the, ah, ah…fighters that you instructed here, locally? Joe: Well, Joe Banovic was one of my, my boys that I worked with, Johnny Haystack, Joe Zinck and, ah, and I- Dan: Ya have anything to do with Phil Shay - Phil Vanderbeck? Joe: Vanderbeck, I was his trainer when he went to, to, ah…New York to fight in the Golden Gloves. Tommy Curry was one of the trainers and I was the other trainer. And, ah…we stayed in New York that, that night, and Vanderbeck boxed the next day. And, ah… some of the other participants were, were, ah…well, I got a picture of ‘em there but I just can't think of any of them, but Vanderbeck was the outstanding one at the, Joe - I think Joe Matisi boxed in that- Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: -tournament, too. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Although, he didn't do too good at the time, but he showed up very well. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: But he didn't win any championship. Dan: Mm-hm. Did ya - how ‘bout, di - Joe Taylor? Did you have anything to do with him? Joe: Joe Taylor? No, I never - I refereed his bouts after I got through boxing, but I never had much to do with Joe Taylor outside of him being a, a member of our old-time boxers association - of which I was Secretary - and that was the only contact I had with Joe Taylor. Dan: Mm-hm. Ah, outside of Jack Sharkey, Joe, uh, who would you say would be the best, ah, fighter to come out of this area? Joe: Out of this area? Dan: Yeah, outside of Jack Sharkey. Joe: I would say Joe Banovic; Joe Matisi. Between those two… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: I would say. I, ah, go ahe - the reason that I picked them was because, because they were heavyweights, more or less. Dan: Yeah. Joe: Or in that heavyweight class, which is one of the most popular classes. Tommy Curry, myself - we were of the lightweights - the lightweights were not too popular at the time… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Because a heavyweight is always…a heavyweight match is always… Dan: Now, from the time up until you retired in 1929, most of the boxing matches locally were down at the Kalurah Temple, right? Joe: No, Johnson Field. Dan: Johnson Field? Joe: Johnson Field is where most of mine were and, eh, and Kalurah Temple. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: But, ah, during the summer, there was always 5 or 6 fights during the, uh, summer at the Johnson Field. Dan: Mm-hm. I recall one fight in particular, ah, involving a local boxer - I believe it was in Johnson Field. Did Jake LaMotta fight here at one time? Joe: Yes he did, yes he did. But I really can't think of who he boxed. Dan: I was under the impression that it was Joe Taylor. Joe: No, Jake LaMotta never boxed in Binghamton - he boxed in Syracuse. Dan: Oh, in Syracuse. Joe: And he boxed Joey Taylor. Dan: Oh, I see. Joe: Joey Taylor put up a wonderful- Dan: Yeah. Joe: -fight against Jake LaMotta. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: I was at the fight - I worked there as an Inspector at the time. Dan: I see. Joe: For the New York State Athletic Commission. Dan: Uh-huh. So, uh, outside of Jack Sharley and, ah, who else did you, uh, who, who of the other heavyweights did you know?  Joe: Well, Jim Braddock was one of my great friends and everybody knows his history of how he became Champion. And, ah, Mickey Walker was, was another great, ah, friend of mine, and Mickey Walker came here the night I boxed Billy Kinney. And thats how I happened to go back to Newark, New Jersey with Mickey Walker. And I trained in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and, ah I boxed in Newark twice at the old Newark Airdrome, I believe they call it, or an Airdrome…and, ah, Mickey Walker's manager at that time was Jim Bulger (B-U-L-G-E-R), and he’s the man that took me to Newark and trained me there. But at that time, I broke my hand and I had to come back to Binghamton. Dan: Mm. Joe: A year later, I went, went out to Cleveland, Ohio, and I boxed in Cleveland, Akron and Mansfield. And at that time I was under the na - management of a, of a Cleveland man. And, eh… Dan: The [inaudible]. Joe:That’s where I met…can’t think of, uh…another great fighter. A heavyweight out there in Cleveland and I can't just think of his name. And I stayed out in Cleveland for a year. For a whole year. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And I boxed in those different… and I, I boxed in a place called Highland Park. Highland Park was a, was a racehor - racetrack, and they had a big gymnasium there, and they held bouts there at that time. Dan: Mm-hm. Now, you started to, to box when you were in the coal mines, um- Joe: That’s right. Dan: - in Pennsylvania. Now, when did you turn professional, Joe? Joe: Oh, I had about…56 amateur fights… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Before I turned professional. And then, I believe I had about 55 professional fights after that. So- Dan: You don't know what that year was that you turned professional. Joe: Around -20. Around 1920. Dan: Around 1920. Joe: Because I, I boxed amateur. But I had more, more 56 amateur fights and only 55 professional fights, so- Dan: Yeah-huh. Joe: I had more experience as an amateur that I did as a professional. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: But that’s what helped me out because I was a good puncher. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Had a good right hand and I scored a lot of knockouts. Dan : Mm-hm. And out of the 55 professional fights, how many did you win? Joe: Well, I only lost two. Dan: Only lost two. Joe: Yeah. Only lost two. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: But, the others, uh, at that time there was a lot of no-decision fights. So. if you were on your feet at the end of 10 rounds, there was no decision. You either won or you…either knocked your man out or you beat him very bad, at, or you win…but, uh, most, uh, in those days, there were no Boxing Commissions. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: in the early 20s. Ah, no boxing, ah, commissions to, uh, say that you had to make a decision, so there was no-decisions on many occasions. Dan: Mm-hm. Now, have you pursued the, ah, your barbering trade at all, Joe? Joe: Pardon? Dan: Have you pursued your barbering trade at all? Joe: Not much after, after, I just…sporadically. Dan: Just sporadically. Joe: Yeah. Dan: Most of your life has been spent, been spent in the boxing profession? Joe: With the Boxing Commission. Dan: Right. Mm-hm. Now, you, when you bought your house on Carlton Street in Johnson City, I mean, what disposition was made of that, I mean how, how did you happen to move from there to here? Joe: There to here? Dan: Yeah. You say you bought the house from George F. Johnson through your sister, right? Joe: Ye-yes. Dan: And, ah, I was just wondering, you sold that, did you, eventually? Joe: Well, after my Mother died. Dan: After your Mother died. Joe: After my Mother died, then we, we sold the house… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And the children each went their own way… Dan: Yeah. Joe: And that’s how I happened to, I got in business with ah John Cupina, who was First Ward Councilman… Dan: Oh, yes. Joe: Here in the City of Binghamton. Dan: Oh, yes. Joe: I was his partner in the liquor store at 54 Glenwood Avenue for 18 years, where I, we are right now… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: With the liquor store downstairs. And after he died, we got, we…the liquor store was sold to someone else. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And, ah, I was still with the Boxing Commission at the time, so I was kept busy doing my work there. Dan: Mm-hm. So, are you more or less retired as far as the Boxing- Joe: Yeah. Dan: -Commission is concerned? Joe: Well, I still go there on a…I'm still, uh, associated with the Commission - but the trouble is, when you go there, everybody's new, nobody knows ya. Dan: Yeah. Joe: All the ones that I, all the people that I know, I'm 76 years old. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And all the people that I knew are either dead or gone. Dan: [light laughter] Joe: Or not working. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: And that’s quite a thing when you go to New York now and, ah, find one of the people that you know and that's about it. Dan: Uh-huh; uh-huh. Joe: That’s why it's always a pleasure to meet Jack Sharkey down there. Dan: Yeah. Joe: That’s why we always go out together. Dan: Uh-huh. Now, of course you have a banquet every year, don't you, for the old-timers? Joe: Yeah, we have a banquet every year for the old timers, and our next banquet is, is, uh…May 13, 1978 at Johnson City, American Legion. And, ah, at that time, we honor so many fighters who have paid, ah, their dues and, ah, have-did their boxing from the old-timers. They've got to be over 50 years old before we, before we, ah, honor anybody. Dan: I see. Joe: In other words, they, tha…that’s the age limit. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: And, ah, so we honor so many people every year, and it’s interesting. The next one is May 13th in Johnson Field or Johnson American Legion. Dan: Mm-hm. Well, is there anything else you would like to add, Joe? Joe: Well, I, the only thing is, I say I belong to the Holy Spirit Church here in Binghamton, New York. And, ah…as far as club membership is concerned, I belong to the different, ah, memberships in the church, and that’s about all. I, uh, I used to belong to a number of clubs, but I just, uh, got away from it all. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And, ah, I want to say one thing that, one of the main things of my, ah, career was as Scout commissioner - Boy Scout Commissioner here in the First Ward during my boxing days because I was popular at the time and I was able to be a Commissioner, and at that time we had 7 Boy Scout Troops in the First Ward. It took a lot of work it took a lot of time of mine to be the Commissioner and meet each and every one of those seven Troops during the weeks that I was on the Board. And I'm very proud of that because today there is only one Boy Scout Troop in the First Ward. Which means that the work isn't being done. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And that’s why the interest isn't being taken care of as it should be. There should be more Boy Scout Troops because a lot of the boys are being, getting in trouble… Dan: Right. Joe:...they have nothing to do… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe:...and that’s why the interest should be in scouting. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And that’s why I am very proud of what I had done at that time, having, boy, ah…Boy Scout Commissionership. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And, uh, leading and raising a lot of the boys that I meet today are, ah, successful business men that were in my Boy Scout Troop. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: That time. Dan: Mm-hm. Ah, Joe, what, ah…just as an afterthought, going back to when you first started fighting, what did you usually get for a fight? Joe: Oh, $150.00… Dan: A hundreh… Joe: …two-hundreh… Dan: $250.00? Joe:...300. The best, the most money I ever made was $1,650.00. Dan: Is that right? Joe: For a 12-round bout. Dan: And that was at the height of your career? Joe: That’s right. Dan: As a professional? Joe: That was in 1923 - 24. Although $1,600.00 at that time was a lot of money. Dan: That’s right. Joe: If I had only invested it properly… Dan: [light laughter] Joe:...in E.J. or IBM stock… Dan: Right, right… Joe:...I'd a been alright today. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: But, I, as a young fella, you don't think of those things. Dan: Joe: And that’s about the size of it. Dan: Uh-huh. Joe: Or if something come up like some stock that, ah, went world wild, why...I sure remember the 1929 crash here in the First Ward when Horvatt's Bank went up. And all the poor people of the First Ward lost their money. I, ah, I saw people crying down there at the bank. And those, those are things that a lot of the young people today don't, don’t remember because they, they naturally weren't born at the time. Dan: Right. Dan: Even born at the time. But, ah, when you see the way some of them are spending money today, it’s, ah, interesting to me because I've seen the hardships that people went through at that time. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Especially during the, the, crash… Dan: Mm-hm. Joe:...in 1929 and 1930. Dan: Yeah…when you were working in the coal mines, what were you getting a day? Joe: Well, it was, I think it was a dollar, an…close to two dollars a day. That’s about it. Dan: Mm-hm. Yeah. Joe: Yeah. Dan: You went to work at 16? Joe: That was in 19, uh…1918 or 19…1918. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Yeah. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Right during the war. Dan: Yeah. Joe: Yeah, because I was only 16 years old at the time. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: And it was quite…when you think of the wages today… Dan: [light chuckle] Well, inflation’s, er, inflation is eating that up. Joe: It’s hard to believe. Dan: It is, it is. Well Joe, I certainly thank you very much for your cooperation and, ah, ah…if there's anything that you couldn’t remember or anything that should come to mind after I leave, why, don't hesitate to call me - I will be glad to return. Joe: I’ll be glad to do it. Dan: Okay, I’ll… Joe: Thank you. Dan: I'll turn this off here.  Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Joe Polansky Subject The topic of the resource Polansky, Joe -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Coaldale (Schuylkill County, Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Boxing; Boxing matches; Boxer; Boxing referees; Schmeling, Max, 1905-2005; Thorpe, Jim; Boy Scouts. Description An account of the resource Joe Polansky speaks about leaving high school to go and work in the coal mine in Coaldale, (Schuylkill County), PA after his father died. He stayed there for one year. During that year he became an amateur boxer and then attended a training course in Philadelphia under Jack O'Brien. He then had traveled thoughout PA for boxing matches. He moved to Binghamton and began participating in boxing matches in this region. The matches were held at Johnson Field and the Kalurah Temple. He boxed throughout New York, New Jersey and Ohio. He later became a professional boxer and retired from boxing in 1929. He discusses his boxing matches. He served as a referee for boxing and wrestling and was a boxing instructor. He was also associated with the New York State Athletic Commission. He recollects knowing notable boxers such as local boxer, Jack Sharkey, and Max Schmeling. He talks of meeting Jim Thorpe. He was a Boy Scout Commissioner in Binghamton's First Ward. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 72 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8f7c008bfe576da0c3e5a436e77c9ca4.mp3 297878bc8dd73fafb2c5b74afa68be52 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56107">Interview with Dr. John P. Ayers, Veterinarian</a> Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ayres, John P. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-04 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Ayres, John P. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Veterinarians -- Interviews; Farmers -- Interviews; Corbettsville (N.Y.); Agriculture; Food Quality Control Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:16 minutes Biographical Text Dr. John P. Ayres talks about his upbringing in Corbettsville, NY, his interests in agriculture and animals in young age that led him to succeed in the fields of farming and veterinary work. He discusses his experiences in the Army, college, and his professional life. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=Ayers.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. John P. Ayres Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 4 March 1978 Susan: Dr. Ayres, could you start by telling us where you were born, something of your parents and, ah, your early childhood experiences, and then go on with your schooling and how you became a veterinarian? Dr. Ayres: I was born in, ah, Broome County, in Corbettsville, NY, Snake Creek Road, which in those days was a dirt road, and my father didn't own the farm that I was born on, so I presume that makes me a tenant farmer’s son, which seem to make for great relationships and rapport with some people. However, my father had the determination that someday he would own that farm, and he did own the farm and today I own the farm, which is the story that, ah, goes with the majority of people in this country. Ah, my mother was orphaned at—at sixteen and she had, ah, five younger brothers and sisters and, ah, she went to work and supported them and held her family together in turn, so I was therefore blessed with two people that were ideal for parents, because my father was a strong, steady, determined individual, in a rural atmosphere, and had a—had a very happy boyhood on the farm, perhaps the happiest days of my life, and again I emphasize, as a tenant farmer’s son, because ah, having lived 60-plus years I find out that the biggest asset is not being left with money, but being left with pride and responsibility to this government, that we live and enjoy and have the opportunity to develop ourselves to our maximum, and my parents strongly believed that and in those days the farm we had, ah, was primarily a dairy farm, a small dairy farm of a hundred seventy-five acres. Our house had at least four if not five bedrooms, as I recall, and we were, had none of the niceties that we reflect on today. We had three stoves that burned wood, that was our only source of heat and therefore, of course they went out at night and it was a question of my father getting up, perhaps at 4:30 in the morning, as I recall, and getting the first stove started, and then the rest of us coming down one by one and, ah, entering into it. Having no heat in the house, obviously we had no running water. The well for the house was thirty feet from the house, and that was partly the responsibility of us children, to bring the water in—in pails, and the warm water was heated on the tank on the side of the stove, as I recall, and that took care of the acid, of getting the water in. The waste material of the body, the toilet was the common standard privy at the time. It was located twenty feet from the rear of the house, and everything that James, ah, Whitcomb Riley, as I recall he wrote a piece of poetry on “The Passing of the Backhouse,” and that is, ah, one that certainly fills the bill and describes it as accurately as any farmer’s son could. We—ah, my brothers and I had—we were blessed with two brothers and two sisters. We all went to the Corbettsville school, which was a two-room schoolhouse—one floor above the other, and it still stands and is now a residence—and I think that was the first time I realized that I was handicapped. I was handicapped in being left-handed and had a schoolteacher who had one thought, that I would become right-handed and it was a question of wills, and I'm still left-handed today, but I well remember her hitting with the ruler, hitting my left hand with the ruler when I'd use it, and I lived long enough to tell her when I was a fairly successful doctor that—that was the only thing I regretted of that period in school, that she had many valuable assets, but her determination to break me was probably only exceeded by my determination that I wouldn't be broken. That was my first handicap, and there came a time, then, when we left there and moved into Binghamton and left the farm behind, and my father went to work because he couldn't buy that farm for another man at a dollar a day. I remember his wages were a dollar a day, and he was considered to work for that a minimum of ten hours each day, so it was about ten cents an hour he got. Obviously, living in Binghamton and working outside was something couldn't successfully for him, and so he located a job in Kirkwood and operated a feed and coal supply that, ah, took care of the people in the Village of Kirkwood and the farmers throughout there, and it probably was the best thing that period in my life, because again I mention I was blessed with a farmer who could be a businessman, who never thought this country owed him a living. He was grateful for what it offered and he imbued that to us, that we had the opportunity to achieve whatever we wanted. That was a period somewhere between 1925 and 1930 that we were there, and that, in that period, I had many friends there, and I want to emphasize that because I still have, ah, but the outstanding unfortunate thing that happened to me there was in the Kirkwood school, which again was a two room school. I went there and I was the only Catholic boy in eight grades when Al Smith dared to run for President, and I still carry one of the scars over my eye from the beatings I used to take because a Catholic dared to run for President. I laugh now when people tell about minorities and their problems. I don't know what they would do if they were the one in the entire school, ah, but the challenge was there, and today I say, “God Bless it,” because it's the challenges that makes us if we have the guts to rise above them, because of the ones that attacked me in those days, we all lived to forget, though—that period, most of us were kids, we were all kids. We really didn't know what the whole problem was about. It was only what, we were getting it at home and it was through ignorance that we were receiving it, and my side of the question wasn't, of course, was, ah, that someday there was going to be a Catholic President, and I've lived long enough to see one and I'd have to admit that I didn't vote for him when he ran. I—I was one that voted for Richard Nixon [in 1960], so you see, the years have worn off the antagonism that might have developed in my mind so that I would’ve blindly voted for the man of my religion, and instead I voted against him. And of many of those that perhaps were pretty unfriendly at that period, I lived to do their veterinary work, which I think is a challenge to many of us, to overcome the difficulties that we have in our youth. Then I went on from Kirkwood and my father bought the farm I was born on and we went back, we turned to the farm, and from there I—I gradually formed the opinion I would become a veterinarian those years, even when my father had this feed business. I was out working and I bought a horse for eighteen dollars—I bought a horse for eighteen dollars—and I agreed to work for the man eighteen days, and when my father looked over the horse he told me, as a good father should, “You got the horse in effect without my advice. It's not worth bringing it home.” The horse lasted a few months, lasted such a short time that I hadn't earned the payment on the farmer’s farm for it, and my father insisted that I go there after the horse was dead and work it out with the farmer. It was a humiliating thing, but it was the best thing happened to me. If you give a man your word, you keep your word. If you buy something, good or bad, you’re stuck with it. There is no whining, no whimpering or crying out, and I look back and I think that was my first real business transaction that was a complete flop, but I had two parents and neither one relented. I had to go there and pick potatoes in the fields in the fall after the horse was dead until I paid for a dead horse, and so I thoroughly understand the expression about buying a dead horse because I bought one almost dead, with that I formed my opinion on there ought to be a better way to do business that I had done, and I—I think it was a beginning of a challenge to me, because I think each one of these, ah, strengthens my determination to do more. I had dogs in those days, and cats, I always had them as a boy, and ah, we were impoverished, ah, not with the point of pity do I say, but it wasn't considered practical and it wasn't practical to take the dog to a veterinarian in, in those days. So I had a dog with distemper in that town of Kirkwood, and I went and talked with the man about it and he gave me some sulfur to give the dog and he knew it would cure the dog, and well, the dog would throw up, I guess every time I'd push the sulfur down the poor dog, and eventually the dog had fits—he had repeated fits in our home—and the man was corning along that I had talked to, and he was carrying his gun, and I remember as a boy him opening the bedroom window, saying, “That dog has rabies,” and shooting it and splattering the brains over the wall of the bedroom. Of course the dog had distemper and, ah, I guess that again fortified my there must be a better way than this, and— Then we went back to the farm and I raised rabbits. My brothers and I had, at one time, over a hundred rabbits, and we got into other things that—raising calves, and of course we had dairy cattle, and in that transition on the farm from being born there and then coming back years later, I reflect on what a vast difference, how things were changing—when we left that farm we had no running water, we had no inside toilets in the house. We were cold in the winter, we, ah, we had an old broken down car when we left the farm. It was a used car. In the winter when we needed water for the cattle we had a stream, there was a little stream, there was a pipe, brought water outside the barn. The cows would go out to drink, and the pipe would freeze in the winter, so you would have to go down to Snake Creek and cut a hole and drive the cows down through the snow, and they'd slide on the ice and I—I just can't remember any of our cattle breaking legs there, but how many, many cattle I saw afterward did break their legs on the ice trying to get out to drink water where the holes had been cut for them—then when we returned to the farm, all that had changed. We put in a heat within the house, got a new well, added inside plumbing so that my poor mother, for the first time on that farm ever, had running water. We had the same thing at the barn, a well, drinking buckets for the cows, metal stanchions, and the biggest thing of all from the standpoint of quality of milk—and even we could detect that—was, for the first time, we really had electricity and we had the means of quick refrigeration of milk so that we had quality milk. When we left the farm in the summer we had to get ice out of our icehouse that had been put there the previous winter, that we had put there, by cutting it off of the Susquehanna River and hauling it up on big sleighs with the horse. The farmers got together, pooled their efforts and brought this ice home, and then it was covered with sawdust, and then in the summer, piece by piece, it was taken out. It was cleaned off, as best one could, of the sawdust, and put in water to chill the milk down instead—in that period of time of change we had, it was the beginning of quality controlled milk and we had inspectors coming to the farm and the improvement in milk rapidly following. One of my memories there, however, was again the question of veterinary services and a dog I had that would never stay home. He was probably the stud dog of the town of Conklin, and at my end I guess I was sort of proud of him, ’cause he took on many a dog and whipped them. He also got into a bit of trouble, too, of course, got me in and therefore got my family in, and so my family made arrangements for me to take the dog with my oldest brother to this man—now long since dead, so I guess I could tell the story on how the operation, how that dog was castrated—and he took the dog into the barn and he wrapped a chain around the dog's mouth and he told my brother to hold that, and he took out his jackknife and then he deliberately sharpened while I was watching him, and then he just cut the testicles off. There was no tying off blood vessels or nothing, and that dog lingered along for perhaps three or four days before he finally bled to death at our home, and I watched it each day, and my parents didn't know but they thought there was something wrong, but they thought that man had more experience and he assured them that the bleeding would stop, well, it didn't fix it at all. The dog bled to death. So I think that was the final straw in in that aspect of my thinking there must be a better way to do this, and it sort of convinced me that, ah, I was going to do a little more with that, even though I would talk to people about becoming a lawyer, and in due time I went to Cornell, and then I was trying to get one year in and my father had a stroke. He was confined to a wheelchair from then on. The Depression was on us and there was no question about, ah, help in those days. There was no tuition assistance program and again I say, “Thank God there was no tuition assistance program.” I have little respect for the present-day college students who whine for extra money when there are jobs available all over the county for them. I was successful in the veterinarian college. I was given a room in the basement to live in, and I worked for 40¢ an hour and I used to have to sit up nights, watch the mares have colts, and I cleaned laboratory equipment and so forth, and I worked my way through college and I—I came home rarely, because as I say, I, my pride had then, I think, equalled my parents’. I wouldn't ask them for a penny, because I knew they had all the struggling they could trying to maintain the homestead, and with my father in a wheelchair and confined. I learned at that point in life when he had this stroke that—it was interesting, that everyone my father owed money to had it well-documented, people who owed my father, and I knew they did even from the days in the feed business, he didn't have it well-tallied, and many of the people I think owed him never paid him. I think, again, it sort of toughened me to realize life was that way. In fact, I remember one man, he said he owed my father and he said he wanted to work it out in plowing, and he came to our farm and he plowed until he thought the bill was square, and at that time, nor until the time he died, no one ever knew how much he owed my father, and he wouldn't tell us and we didn't know, but it was a question. My father was primarily a dairy man and a smalltime, ah, fellow in this market that we call this outside world, and he wasn't able to cope, so financially, we weren't in a good, ah, set of financial circumstances, not because he didn't work, but because he didn't realize that everything had to be documented. He was, at that point, not businesslike enough in case of catastrophe, which we've all learned we have to be, but it did provide a good basis for me to realize that if I was going to make it at Cornell, I was going to make it on my own, and I did, and I remember the high point of my life in that was when I came home and I gave my mother three hundred dollars, besides going through college, and then I went to New York and worked, and in due time I worked in dog and cat hospitals, and then I came back and went to work for the Dairymen's League—[Clock chimes]---which was a milk company, and I worked for them two years until the Army called me up, and I was five years in the Army. Then I came home and became City Veterinarian of Binghamton, and in that period I had seen the transition, the change that had gone on again, and of course I was then completely on the other side. I was no longer someone from off the farm. I was then a man that had become a doctor of veterinary medicine and served in the ranks of the Army in quality control of foods in general, from the state of Maine to Florida and as far west as Michigan. I served in ranks of Lieutenant and Captain and Major and Lt. Colonel—ah, in fact, when I came home from the Army I was Chief Veterinarian in the First Air Force and I was the youngest veterinarian in it, and the Chief, so I came home with that kind of background to bring about quality control of foods in general in the City of Binghamton and the farms that supplied milk to the city and the milk plants, and found myself pitted to some degree against many of my former acquaintances—I use “acquaintances” rather than “friends” because I, ah—some of them didn't accept change, men who get older, I guess many men don't accept change, especially coming from a younger person—but I remained a city veterinarian for fourteen years before I went with the State. I saw all the changes come about. I saw rabies so bad in Broome County in 1947 that we had over 50 cases of rabies in the city of Binghamton in July of 1947, and I can say in 1977 we didn't have a single case in the city, and the few cases that we do have outside of the city are generally attributed to wildlife, where I'm sure rabies will always exist, but by vaccinations we eliminate that, so that three quarters of the veterinarians in the county have never seen a case of rabies. They talk about it, and we know it's there in wildlife, but we just don't see it. That was accomplished by the use of vaccination, and the same thing is true with the dogs, but I've experienced—in treating my own dog in Kirkwood with distemper and using sulfur, it merely made the dog vomit and had him shot in the head in my bedroom—has changed now by the advent of vaccination, so that no dog need die of distemper, it's a question of, perhaps, our failure to get to the people that can do it. On the other hand, I do think there was a—a stronger character in the people then—if they couldn't afford a veterinarian, they said they couldn't—today many people want the dogs, or want the children, and yet they don't want what goes with them, and so it is part of the work and the responsibility that goes with having pets or having children, you have to have enough responsibility to be willing to sacrifice for them, and sacrifice isn't done by an expression of words, but by acts. Susan: Let's continue, Dr. Ayres, by telling us something about the women in your life. Dr. Ayres: Well, the women in my life start with my mother, and my mother was a school teacher, and in those days it took two short winter courses to become a school teacher and one stayed ahead of one’s students, I believe, and therefore she was the one that instilled into us education was the only way to get ahead in this country, that was the, ah, the best and logical course of events. I can remember when I would be losing the rounds while Al Smith ran for President, this mother of mine’d tell me at home how I could overcome them, and that was only one way, by education, and my mother was proud in the sense of real pride, but she knew that success for our family meant being a partner to my father, and she was that, and many a night and many a morning my mother was with us milking the cows, which today might sound degrading, but my mother, she was the best. Then the next woman in my life was my wife, and my wife, thank God, was a nurse. She was of the generation when the nurse had all the basic training that was needed to inculcate in her mind the willingness to, ah, take care of the patient in all events, so—so it really did never seem to me a difference whether the patient was a human or an animal, and I've been privileged, as a result of having such a partner, to have my practice always contiguous to my house. When I had a heavy practice and my wife could advise the owners of animals as well as I could, and many times, I've had to admit, much better. She had a charm that I didn't have, because I was of the generation that, ah, was pretty practical, and you had to tell someone very bluntly whether the animal would make it or not, and there was an economic value on animals in a large animal practice that there isn't on a small animal practice. My wife had the right background by becoming a nurse, and my wife is first generation from Lithuania. Her father came from Lithuania and crossed over the border and got away from the Russians who had engulfed, ah, Lithuania years ago, as they again did after World War II, and that little country, like the little country that my people immigrated from, Ireland, has stood the mistreatment of a larger power all the time, and my mother dwelt much on history and pride, family loyalty, and knew that her people had come from Nova Scotia and she carefully documented what little knowledge she had, sufficient that even though she never knew her relatives in Nova Scotia, nor did her father before her know the relatives in Nova Scotia, with what she had documented I was able, after a hundred-plus years, to locate relatives in Nova Scotia and develop a genealogy and have composed and written a twelve-page booklet on my relatives from the time that they appeared in Nova Scotia in about the year of 1800. Last fall my wife and I went to Ireland and tried to establish connections there, but in a country that, ah, 50% were either starved to death or forced into immigration by the horrendous laws of England, ah, it is very hard to establish much on genealogy—however, we are pursuing it and we'll follow along on that. But prior to that time, even before I retired and became, in the present-day terminology, the “double dipper”—because, ah, I did continue my Army career in reserve and I continued my work for New York State until I achieved a pension in both, ah, I have kept my private practice—but I did start with my children and, I have a boy and a girl and I started taking them, first to Puerto Rico, and I went on a group tour and promptly left the tour and took my children down to the most godforsaken areas that existed in old San Juan and so forth, where people were living in tin shacks under lean-tos, et cetera, that they had never seen before, and from there we continued taking various trips to Spain, Mexico and Italy, ah, primarily for the children by that time, and I thought back of, ah, when we stood at Rome—when my mother made one trip, and that was into Canada, she always asked me, sometime before I die, to make a trip to Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré Shrine in Canada, little thinking I'd get to the Vatican first—then, ah, my daughter followed the image of her mother, I think, and was inclined at times to become a nurse, but she went into Languages in the SUNY system and she went through college, and in the summer she has worked, just like my son that's in Pre-Med, he worked the last two summers at General Hospital, and again, thank God he started the first summer in the laundry room and I was pleased when his boss told me that fall—that fall he was through, he told me, that's where every doctor ought to start, down there where the towels came down with the blood and fecal deposits and pieces of bones and everything else that goes with a hospital come down, the laundry room, and I think too many people rise too fast out of the basement of life and not realize what's down there, so I was pleased when he got that job, and then last summer he worked as an orderly in General Hospital, and I think that he has now an awareness of, if he is gonna become a medical doctor, of the basic thing that goes with it, the understanding that goes with it, and of course he had all the years with me, because my practice being next to my home, he was able to render first aid, and both of my children helped me on caesarean sections and so forth—rubbed the little puppies and kittens, ah, from the minute they were brought life on into them, when they were overwhelmed with disease or need patrician or something, so they both had the opportunity to learn, and I look back at my life now and reflect on the terrible situation that so many children come up in—the terrible situation of not knowing how their parents make money—not knowing what makes this country tick—and I think they've have had that opportunity. I thank God that they've had as much as they have had, that they realize how money came in this house and how it went out of this house because the business was, ah, contiguous to it, and in so many lives today the check comes in once or twice a month and it has to do, therefore there is a price paid for it. The price is that while we probably have now the most intelligent people graduating from our schools, they may also be the most immature. Susan: That about sums it up, doesn't it? Dr. Ayres: In retirement I enjoy every day, and like any doctor I think I'll probably continue practicing until I cross the divide, if God gives me the strength. Susan: Well, thank you, Dr. Ayres, it's been nice of you to take time out from your busy life to talk with us. Thank you. Date of Digitization 2016-01-28 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John P. Ayres Subject The topic of the resource Ayres, John P. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Veterinarians -- Interviews; Farmers -- Interviews; Corbettsville (N.Y.); Agriculture; Food Quality Control Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 1 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ayres, John P. ; Dobandi, Susan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sedlak, John Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-02-03 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:56 Minutes ; 11:52 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56015">Interview with John Sedlak</a> Subject LCSH Sedlak, John -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Life insurance agents -- Interviews; Shoes; Italians; Russians; Polish Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: John Sedlak Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of Interview: 3 February 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to John Sedlak of O'Day Drive, Endicott, New York on Feb. 3, 1978. John, will you tell us about your life and experiences in the community? John: Well, to begin with I'm the first generation in this country, my folks having come from Czechoslovakia about 1907 and I was born on Oak Hill Avenue and delivered by a midwife, one of seven children with the exception of one, all of us were delivered by midwives—ive of us are living—two brothers died shortly after birth. On my folks when they came to this country they did not come from Czechoslovakia, it was known then, as Austria-Hungary. As a result, they both spoke and wrote Hungarian as well as Slovak. And many times during our youth when they didn't want us kids to know what they are talking about—they would speak Hungarian. They even sang in Hungarian, that he's—I used to remember some of them but I can't say them now because I can't remember them. But, I believe my first recollection I have as a youth, I lived on Oak Hill Avenue up to a age of twelve—here our next door neighbors were Italian. They came on the same boats as the rest of the foreign people those days and yet, our parents, even though they were different nationalities we would have a good relationship with the Italian people by sign language if nothing else or with a few words of English that we learned at work and we had good relationships with these foreign neighbors who, when I say foreign neighbors, we were foreigners, too, or our parents were. And I recall, as a kid, Endicott Johnson was mainstay of this community, they were the biggest, the best and you thought nothing of, rather, you thought, not of going to work somewheres else, your ship was sighted towards gonna work for Endicott Johnson, unless you were going to be a professional person which was a rare thing so—we—ah—ah see what I want to say ah. I just want to recollect that the great benefactor, that the Mr. George F. Johnson, was because, as a youngster it—we were benefited with sleds, wagons, parks, and as I recall every school that went up in the community the Endicott Johnson Corporation or George F. Johnson himself was grant maybe about half the payments for school which reduced the tax for all the people in the community. Christmas time he gave shoes to all the school kids and it didn't make any difference where your parents worked he got a pair of shoes free. Great humanitarian! And occasionally maybe you ought to stop that thing. Nettie: Take your time—relax—we'll just keep it going. John: Well, no, I'm relaxed—the only thing I'm just trying to think what I should inject in your machine and it is picking up our conversation. (Laughing). I was just gonna say that I would recall the honesty of the working people. I have a good example of my own. One day my mother wanted to wash my clothes, I was then about 10 years old, I had picked up a couple of combs at the dime store which I didn't pay for. To make a long story short, my father said, "Take your pants off and give them to your mother to take them to scrub them on a scrub board at that time.” I took these combs out of my pocket and he saw them and asked me, "Where did you get them?" I had to tell him—I stole them. Well, he told me to change my clothes and he took me all the way down Oak Hill Ave, stood in front of dime store and he said, "Now, you go in and put them in—put them back,” and that's what I had to do. Now that was the greatest lesson of "not stealing" that I ever had because it put me in good stead because all my life after that I never had to worry about a job if—I—-handle a lots of money. I wasn't tempted to walk off with any of it because—it just didn't—he put that lesson so clearly to me—that your name meant so much—poverty isn’t that bad—as long as you had a place to sleep and you had enough to eat. I don't care what you ate, you can get by in this world, get by with soup every day of the week. You don't have to have steak, potatoes—so that rubbed off on me so deeply that I am now 66 and I never forgot that incident and haven't touched anything since. I don't mean to throw stones on anybody else—but I certainly used that as a comparison that you can get by—by working and saving and the things of life which you really need first, the other pleasures come when you have the money—if don't have ‘em—don't worry ‘em but enjoy your neighborhood, your friends close by. You don't have to travel the world over—in other words to think you're missing something, if you don't go to Spain, France or something—someplace like that. If you can, fine, like to go and got the money—go—really—but what I'm just saying—the best thing in the world, as far as I can see is to make friends in your immediate neighborhood, your community and enjoy them. And I wanted to mention something else, and we moved on the farm about 1923 because of my mother's health but that didn't work out too well. It was too far for my father to travel to work—Endicott Johnson so we moved back to Endicott on North Street, this time, from there I developed to adulthood. Nettie: Is this about the time you were entering into the insurance business, John? John: No, no I did not enter into insurance business until I worked for about 8 years with Endicott Johnson as a shoe clerk. I started on Washington Ave transfering to Johnson City for 2 years and from there I was transferred to a new store, which opened up on Odell Ave… They needed someone who could speak the Slav languages. Well I didn't like to take the job in the first place because actually there was a reduction in pay—at least they told me there wasn't gonna be—finally it turned out it was and I stood with it—but for five years but after I got there the work turned out to be very, very good, very interesting. The people would speak Slav or they understood me, anyway if they were Russian, or Polish, we would get by. But the greatest thing I can remember from that, that experience, rather, working in that shoe store was mostly this—that I had an Italian lady who recently had come from Italy, I say recently, she may’ve been here a year or so she had been in tie shoe store numerous times and after time she would ask for me and she would always speak in Italian. The manager was Italian but she didn't want him, I guess because of his forceful sales methods, his forceful way of selling a shoe. She didn't like it—she always, when she came in the door—she would tell me in Italian that she wanted me—I can even repeat that—"Beaj ju va" [sic]—and that was a strange relationship because I would talk to her—I knew how to say colors, like I could ask her if she wanted black, brown or white shoe. I'd sit her down, measure her feet and I'd even tell her the price in Italian and I got so, I was, that much I can get by with and she appreciated that much and we got along very well. And the reason I brought up this incident is the fact you show some compassion towards people and they responded in kind and it didn't make any difference what your nationality was as far she was concerned, made no difference to me that she was Italian. I just felt wonderful with that experience, here's a person in that store that speaks as well as good Italian as she could but she preferred me, of a Slav descent and she knew it. Though, that was one of the experiences I had in life there and as time went along I wanted to leave the store and go to the Washington Avenue store which I had started in many, many years back. There was a vacancy there—and it would pay me almost 50% more in pay and I got the OK from the district manager but then he referred me to the vice president of the company, Lawrence Merle and when I sat down and talked with him he said, "We built the North Side Store for North Side people—if I take you from there and put you down on Washington Avenue you’re going to pull some of that trade down there and we can't do that." I got up on my haunches about then and said, "Mr. Merle, most companies pay a person more money because they can speak more than one language and you are penalizing me." He says, "No, no, no." By that time I got up and in spite of this man's vice presidency in that corporation and overall command of all the stores in United States, I FELT PROUD BECAUSE I could get up and say what I thought. About a year later, I left the store because I figured that wasn't the proper treatment. When I gave my notice about a week before I was to have my final days, I got a phone call asking me if I would take the manager's job in Cleveland, Ohio which I refused because I had given Metropolitan a—my OK that I was coming to work for them.  And even, there, I was hired because I could speak more than one language—they needed an agent who could speak other than English, In other words, the Slav language. And there again, it was in the same area as the shoe store. I got wound up with what they used to call it a debit in those days—a debit meant you had accounts, that were weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi or yearly and you collected mostly your money from the people on scheduled calls. I found out when I got the debit it wasn't as much Slav as I thought. I had almost as much Italian accounts but there again those same people were going to the shoe store, and they knew me, and I had a reasonable amount of success in the business of selling, regardless of what nationality there were. As I mentioned before you had we were not in full Depression at that time that, and this was in 1938, and still the country was not in a rosy condition either. We did have to collect some accounts every week, some people paid 2-3 dollars every week, those were big accounts. You try to equate that today, 2 - 3 dollars a week would mean about 20 dollars a week at least and those were pretty good size accounts, when you analyze them on today's market. Some of the experiences there were—oh—let's see I had something in mind, Nettie—and I can't think of what I was going to mention—Oh—I recall—yes—I had a man who I always had a hard time collecting from him—seldom home and drank a lot and lots of times I let his account go—after stopping there—I would let it go until the last day and I would go 2 or 3 times, see if I could catch him home. This one night I decided, well, I've had it, I was going home. I had stopped previously there, he lived on the third floor. Before I came to—on my return trip home which was almost 9 o'clock that night I've had a glass of wine at the last place I collected, and just one glass. I didn't know how to drink too much anyway, I came up to this fellow and he was giving me a hard time and I guess he could smell I had something to drink. We weren't supposed to drink. But this was the case, as I said, where the man—always giving me a rough time and here I was stopping, figuring I was going home, it was on my route home so I stopped because I could see a light on the third floor. I went up, I guess he paid me but don't remember that either except I do recall the next meeting, Friday of that week, we generally have meetings every Friday, the manager got up and he mentioned without mentioning names, he said, “One of you was reported to have been drinking this week. And I don't like that and this man didn't like it.” So I thought, "Ho, I bet they're talking about me." So when the meeting did break up, I did go into the manager·'s office and asked him if it was me. I gave him the circumstances. He says, "Johnny, we all drink but he says we never drink while you work.” He did tell me it was me. He didn't want to mention the man's name and I told him if it's this man and I told him the circumstances and what type of man that man was. We shook hands and that was it, the boss realized he just had a crank situation on his hands and told me to disregard it, he wasn't going to to make no report to the home office on that, so that's the way that situation ended. Now as far as selling the foreign born, most of them came to this country not knowing what insurance was. They didn't have no such things in Europe in those days. If a person passed away there, the village carpenter in the smaller communities, made a pine box and they were buried. However they paid for in those years—in those countries, I don't know. So we had to instill into the minds of people that just came into this country that you had a little different process here—you had the undertaker, you had the priest to pay or the minister as the case may be, because in many European countries the priest or the ministers were paid by the state so they didn't have any of that outside expense. Here, they had to uphold their own churches, and as a result you had to pay the priest, as I said again, the minister so the convincing—was sometimes hard, sometimes these people came were little above average, they had to be, they were pioneers, see—they must’ve been brave, leaving their mother country and come these thousand of miles away, not knowing the language, customs. Just picture ourselves, if we had to do this—even in our country transplant ourselves from here to the west coast, and all our other relations are here. It takes bit of forethought and courage to go out and do it—especially if you are close to your family and that was so in those days, our people came to this country they were close to their mothers and fathers and brothers—and they came from common stock and nobody was actually professional—not as we see the many foreign people come to this foreign country today—have a education, they are professional—it is easier—welcome better and they have a generally—they know there gonna to travel, they try to get books, that they can at least translate and get by until they make up their minds if they will go into further studies and be more proficient in the language. They can at least get by translating or reading the—other book—where our parents, with a limited educations—over there. My father told me he was—he went to school ‘til he was twelve years old and that was it. Here's this man that knew two languages at that time and he went up to the third or fourth grade. So, sometimes I used to, as a young man, take a hold they didn't know nothing. I look back they knew lot more. They knew the land, they knew how to work the land, they knew seasons, they knew what the seasons represented—by that, I mean—ah—if it was gonna be cold—they knew it by looking at things that natures provided—for them—in other words—they had a first hand course of their parents who, that would teach ‘em—all about these things—like for example, grafting a tree—I seen my father doing that as a kid. Here I am a high school graduate, years of experience in this community, I don't know how to graft a tree. That's what I mean. They knew how to put in a good garden—and why it did grow or not grow—they could tell you, without a formal education from nobody—so most of it came from their parents from their experience they were shown and they did. My father, when he came to this country, most people that left school and wanted to be for example, to be a tailor, they would go—work as an apprentice with a tailor. And so many years afterward—before he was granted some sort of a written certificate, I presume—someday he could come out and be a tailor on his own, either be hired in the industries or set up his own shop. That's the way they began life and some of ‘em prospered by it—especially those who came to this country which ways. We knew so little because so little was written about our country. Nettie: John, what kind of policies did they have at first? John: Oh—did digress away from the insurance business. Nettie: Oh—that's quite all right. John: When I began, actually most people paid insurance either by the week or by the month—most people had a hard time if you wrote them a policy to pay 6 or 7 dollars every three months—with the size of their families being large they felt it would be better if you wrote it by the week. But as things improved, you started writing more policies by the month—otherwards—I said, I began in 1938 and I recall that I had a break in there in 1944—I was drafted into military service and even in 1944 the economy had improved and you were writing more insurance that people were paying by the month—but again—that might not run over 5-6-7 dollars a month and it wasn't until after World War II when you started to write people 8-9-10 dollar premium a month plus what they already had—and these plans of insurance vary—most of our people did like to have a policy where they paid all their life. Even though, life policy was less expensive and they were having more protection for their dollar. They didn't feel they should be paying when they couldn't work any more, for example, So they would prefer a 20 payment life. We sell more of that—but the younger generation got better educated—some from service—realizing that—eh—why not be insured for $10,000 instead of let's say, 5 or 6 thousand under 20 payment for practically the same premium. So the people—as you educated people to understand insurance better and telling them—well, look if you take a whole life and can't pay it all your life that doesn't mean you are going to lose that money—say you come to 65 and you want to stop paying and you want to take what they call a reduced paid up insurance policy for over $6000 or whatever the case exact may be, without a rate book I'm just guessing here, but anyway they could see that instead of paying $15 a month for a $10,000—20 payment life they could pay maybe $9.00 for a whole life for the same protection. My company will pay the same whether you pay $9 or $15 but the only advantage was after 20 years you didn't have pay anymore, but again it took $15 instead of $9 out of your pocket. And, if you had a larger family and had other obligations, which most people did, something would have to give, unless income in 70 went up and in those years there wasn't that steady income, that steady increase in wages, as some of the industries are getting today. There was no such thing as every year you got a increase, you could get a decrease for a lack of work. The situation as you see today. Nettie: John, may I interrupt at this time? When you are talking about increases maybe you can tell us the difference between Endicott Johnson and IBM—when it came to wages at that period. John: Well, back in—when I graduated from High School in 1930—you been better off going to work for Endicott Johnson because Endicott Johnson had a full medical program and IBM or at that time known as ITR, did not. They made about the same wages excepting in the tanneries where you made bigger money than working in ITR and ITR as I said, had no medical program, as I recall, but EJ or Endicott Johnson did—you went to a hospital you didn't have to worry about a nickel, went to see their doctors, got a prescription filled, had your eyes checked, the only thing I can remember after after your getting your eyes checked—you had to pay for your glasses if you could afford it. If you couldn't, even there, Endicott Johnson would pick up the tab. I remember instances, where people got hurt in car accidents on the highway and Endicott Johnson would send a plane to pick up these people and bring them back to the local hospital at no expense to these people. I seen people at instances where they needed special medical care that was not furnished locally, again—Endicott Johnson would furnish the plane to the patient as well as a family member to fly ‘em to a destination and when were through with their treatments bring them back. And all this and even the living expense of these people was absorbed by Endicott Johnson. However, after World War II IBM became a different ball game—they started to really prosper—you can't say today that they don't have good benefits—they have tops—Endicott Johnson, of course, is also a good corporation today to work for. Does that cover it? Nettie: John, how about going back to the Slovak people? I think it would be interesting if you told us some of the traditions—I think— John: Oh—well—see—what we can—like Easter? Nettie: Yes that would be interesting. John: Well—of course Easters back in our day—when we were kids, especially bring some recollections of the Lent season. First of all, we did not eat meat—generally on two days of the week—Wednesdays and Fridays at all and that was all during the 40 days then during the—course—also those who were of age were generally from 18-60 were supposed to fast—and that is one full meat meal a day and the other just light lunches you might say but that was just what many other religions did too—the Orthodox probably even stricter than the Roman Catholics in their upholding of their Lent. When Easter came there is a custom we want to bring out is that was I would get the pussywillows and my father would braid these pussywillows in a form of a short switch and it was a custom that on Easter, although they tell me in Czechoslovakia it was on Monday, where the men run around and they sort of whip the women, this is sort of reminiscent when Christ being whipped by the Jews before being crucified. It was done in a playful manner when you whipped the girls and the following day on Tuesday, was the girls’ day·to do the same. And this naturally, being a youngster, you go out to see your relatives and close friends, you switch the women folk even some times, kids your age or some little older—naturally would run from you because they didn't want to be beaten but sometimes you get a little too carried away and hit too hard, and the man of the house would naturally give you an egg or an orange or money—a few pennies but—was fun—was fun—because we didn't have much money if we got a few cents at the end of to go to a movie we thought we did pretty good. Matter of fact, this custom we did every year—I had an Italian friend who was very close to us—and he kept asking us if he could go along, finally, one Easter we took him out, then we got him a whip, and, my dad a few extras and he went with us too. (Laughing).  I can still remember the boy's name, I don't know if you want names—but Tony Fanara—neighbor practically to Helen's there—and I can still recall that. Then another custom was at Christmas time—which we would go out—oh—before I go on Christmas. I just want to mention one thing about the young adults—we sort of switched from that switch—that's going to be confusing now on tape but instead of the kobachis we used to call it—we started to using water—we used—seltzer bottles. So I recall we didn't have too many cases where you could do that but we had, I remember Margaret Gondek's folds—she was up to date on these things—wouldn't want us to miss her house so we get up early Sunday morning—Easter morning—and she'd leave the house open so we'd walk in and we knew where the girl's bedroom was already—so we'd go up daybreak and pull the covers and swish the seltzer bottle— Nettie: Good ol’ days. John: Yeah—yeah—but somebody had a wet bed—you call that good ol' days—but maybe they didn't like it—they say they didn't like it—but again—I'm sure but what would you do with a wet bed? Take days to dry out. Nettie: That was youth! John: But that was the fun of youth—yeah—we enjoyed doing that. Next day the fellow—generally the girls took it over the following day—which as I said—the custom was Sunday and Monday—in Europe it was Monday and Tuesday. No… But other than that—oh—church dances when they used to have festivals—like in October—they would have a harvest festival then they would dance in native costume—native dress costumes of the Czechoslovakia. They were different costumes different, depending of what part of Czechoslovakia you came from, seems as though every town had its own style of costumes—kroys—I think they called them. I even got away from term insurance—I never mentioned that yet— Nettie: Do you want to mention it at this time? John: Well, you’re gonna have this interlaced with costumes and other—so you will have to adjust. Nettie: That's all right—you want to mention this term insurance—it's all right. John: You asked a question about the term insurance as I mentioned a—a—on previous discussion—term insurance is insurance that has no cash value at any time—as long as you pay for it—you have the coverage once you cease paying on it, the coverage ceases and that's not immediately because if you paid the current month you don't pay until the next premium, you have 30 days or 31 days—after that all coverage ceases because you didn't pay the premium. Now very few people at the beginning would buy this type of insurance but back in—oh—I think following World War II it became more prevalent because all these servicemen became acquainted with term insurance because that's what we bought as servicemen from the government, term insurance—and that of course, the government said when you got out you can convert to other forms of insurance—which today you can buy almost any type of insurance you want—even with the government you have been in service, so you can have your policies paid up as at a given time—you know—whole life policies which would build up cash reserves. Now that's mainly the difference—much of your—again—another idea of having to understand term insurance, is insurance most industries carry for their employees—is term insurance—builds up no cash reserves. Those who die along the way—their families would benefit by that and those who live have very little coverage in their older years of their life. Nettie: Now some of these insurances you had—was there a high rate of lapsing? John: No, no—because there again—that depended on the agent and how he explained things and how forceful he was to oversell ‘em—and that's how many agents were overzealous with—talk a man into a large amount than he can pay for. So the man may struggle for with one year—or or maybe a 6 month—and the first thing you know lapsing—his policy and couldn't afford it so I was always watchful of that—because I thought—look—I might better sell this man a smaller contract now with the hopes things, if things would improve for him or he can handle this he would not hedge against buying additional coverage as he got a little older. You might have to pay more—but again he knew what he could handle—in other words it's one step at a time. If you use that philosophy I think you found—I found at least that they did better with their insurance program. I didn't have—I never had a high lapse ratio like some of the agents. I was never the top salesman as some of these men were but amount of lapse. I often wondered how they were rated that high but they—I guess— Nettie: John, you told me quite a few interesting things but do you still have any more recollections toward our interview?  John: Well, I really don't think so—I'm not here to—you can't bring EJ back to life like the way it was—we've seen the community replaced by IBM instead of Endicott Johnson—I believed I mentioned in previous discussion all Endicott Johnson did before and if we could have another benefactor like—Endicott—like George F. Johnson—this community—and every community in the United States—it would be wonderful. This man didn't die forgotten—at least in my mind—I've always thought of this man and I always have prayed for this man. He was just a beautiful man—he's a man more people should try to copy. Nettie: Ok—John—thank you for your interview and it was very interesting. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John Sedlak Subject The topic of the resource Sedlak, John -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Life insurance agents -- Interviews; Shoes; Italians; Russians; Polish Description An account of the resource John Sedlak discusses his upbringing in Endicott as one of seven children of Czechoslovakian immigrants, his work for Endicott Johnson stores as a shoe clerk, where he learned to understand Italian, Russian, and Polish. He tells of his work for the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, including working with immigrants. He compares benefits of Endicott Johnson workers and IBM workers before WWII, and emphasizes the charitable work of George F. Johnson and the Endicott Johnson Corporation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 53A ; Recording 53B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sedlak, John ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-03 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:56 Minutes ; 11:52 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f04f940ad7b25d0c816d222a43dc4cd0.m4a d7ecc4c1ccd4f436a179e129b0ac3277 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f4576cb1911528e1dd7943c4b451f21b.m4a 1a0e1c7ca252b78bad7be9d213b59bf8 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f2403014ac9ed024b9da9ca54253ef75.m4a 618c7bd5ce4b6be7846d8334239e6cdf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Warski, John Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1977-11-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:22 Minutes ; 26:42 Minutes ; 4:42 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56047">Interview with John Warski</a> Subject LCSH Warski, John -- Interviews; Austria; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Jessup (Pa.); Endicott (N.Y.); Immigrants -- Interviews; Carpenters -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; House construction Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: John Warski Sr. Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 16 November 1977 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to John Warski Sr. of Cafferty Hill Rd., Endicott, New York on Nov. 16, 1977. Mr. Warski let us start at the beginning when you arrived in America. John: I came this country–-Beginning from little boy, something. Nettie: Yes, you can start at that time. John: Well when I was a little boy I was interested little bit in carpentry job. We had a little farm, not much. I can't make a living from that, my father dead in job, what they call Carpo now, he go to work over there they been 1907. Nettie: You came to this country in 1907? John: Yes I come in 1907. I come to this country in 1907. My father go to work over there and they kill him in job. I comes over here landed go through Bremen, Germany and landed in Baltimore. From Baltimore they bring us grandchildren, four or five, six people together they come to Pennsylvania, Olyphant. Nettie: Excuse me, did you come to Baltimore by train or boat? John: Oh, we came by boat—ship. Nettie: Did you go to Ellis lsland first? John: No, Baltimore they got Casa Garda in building. New York is different what they call Casa Garda, Baltimore is different. Comes over here brings in May 1907. We go together to Olyphant—those people they have father and cousin over there but I have address to my cousin in the Jessup next place over there. They get out of Olyphant. I go out with them too. I don't know nothing too much about it…how it goes. They go find those people their cousin and when they found out so I get different address I not belong to them. I take a walk about one mile from Olyphant they show me where to go up to Jessup. When I come to the Jessup I walk by the railroad tracks come to Jessup and sit on the bench between the bushes and grass—been thinking—what am I going to do? What am I going to ask for? You know what it is. Then I see man walking by the railroad track inspect the track they got hammer and wrench. I look over there well recognize he been from my village, he work on that track over there. He look on me that I sit over there he don't know me—he know me old country all right been me—been working for the priest been neighbor of the priest. Then after while he looked willow and I starting to call the name Mike! Mihal! Mihal! See I don't know the language, nothing. He stop, look, look stop and start to go again…I start holler again to by the name—he start I started to come to him and he started to come to me, we get together just been in front house where he been living—he rented house by the tracks. I told him who I am—he been surprised what I doing over here. I explain that few people they take up in Olyphant but my address been over here—they tell me to use what got address—I had address fellow been my mother's sister's husband his name Orayko. Well then comes there he takes me in a house he been married been village across river just like Susquehanna that woman been come from there… Well I take wash up every morning come from old country they have to wash themselves wash—all kinds of people, you know. She give me eat this, this. After while that cousin I have address to him he come from work. He live same house just other people rented boarding over there. When they come from work he find out I was over there and he come to me started to talk this, that—then he go to store, buy me some clothing—little bit cheap clothing so—I don't have just—what I had on myself, some shoes like that. Then in about 2 days he ask the boss about the job for me for the breaker, breaker that big building—so breaked the dumped coal in big lumps and when they break in pieces they screen it—they call it breaker, coal breaker. I get a job over there to pick slate—see they got of place. Sitting over there they keep the hands down—chute go down got little bench—piece board over there they keep their feet like that when (pold) roll down—see something—try they got another chute for the rock. I work there 10 hours a day I think so 9 hours a day. $1.00 on a day, yeah. I been working for little while and I ask that cousin, I come to him—figure like same job only different factory—dumped different type of rock. I ask him been needed man for the driver up the colander dump where they dump all rock they give me that job over there for the driver. I been working over there two to three years, maybe 2 years I don't know something like that before I started again to pick slate. I don't know how long that happened maybe one year something like that—I changed the jobs so on the rock. Then after while I don’t know how long I work the breaker burned down. No job. Been working at home. I have to do something. I have two guys been working in a paper mill near Watertown, Dexter, New York near Canada. I wrote a letter and they tell me come on up and maybe you will get a job there. So I come and two days later over there I look around I come later—I had friends and they take me on the board from my village and I wrote to him. I get up in the morning been living by the paper mill, by the factory. I just go there look it over how they make the paper so interesting. I asked them first should can I go inside—yeah, you go in there—nobody bother you. Take a look inside the shop. Then I saw some kind of guy—sport— well find out he been superintendent of that shop. He talk to me and asked—well that happened later, he talked to me and make ask—"You look for job?" Yeah. “Well come afternoon sometime tell me sometime in afternoon, then you come get your job.” I said, all right. Well then he go for a little while, well, half hour—well you better start tomorrow morning. All right—I come tomorrow morning ask—he look, look on me and don't say nothing. I ask him for what happened to my job you promised me yesterday? “Oh! I forgot it—” Well he give job to work down in the basement with water been in machine, lots to explain. Then after while l work I don't know how long I work, I been interesting been recognizing the building the fireman. I like look lots time how they work—Italian Jew boss engage on the boiler, that's all. Just the boss. Then I ask if you remember get the job get another boss in the same company, see. This factory where I go different building. They give me job, said you take the job if you want it. Well then—I want to wheel coal or ashes from the boiler—see they push cart inside boiler, they got regular tracks, open door coal run down, sometimes fireman when visit somebody gets close to boiler, if far away have shovel to them. Then clean fire, put ashes on pile—I have to take the wheelbarrow, my job to wheel like on a dump, other side of boiler. Then I work while I plan how the fireman throw the coal, how they look interesting. Then after a while been chance I ask the boss, I like fireman head per man—headman run all the business and helper get busy, too, work to do. Then after while chance coming somebody quit, something like that, they give me job, helper. I started fireman, started fireman work for little while, I don't know how long, I can't explain, never keep track of maybe year or something like that they been fireman, head man quit. They give me job—head man. So I have to know what start water pump, fill those tanks have outside the hill—they got lots of things, you know. They got to take care of boiler, clean the boiler inside. Every Sunday, I take every second Sunday you got to got go inside the boiler, drain water out, coal out, put cold water something like that… I been thinking this way—Well little while—two guys they telling that paper mill over there—they been working there—they quit—work Bridgeport, Conn.—Bridgeport, Conn.—the shipyard work. They wrote the letter—I think so I going to try it—maybe I'll get a job. I quit over there and go to Bridgeport, Conn. Well, I find some Russian lady from Russia, they board over there—I find board. Next day so I go to shipyards, well, when I come over there, there is a line people that with the tools, everything, carpenter, short wait for the job. Boss coming in the line just take maybe one or two, call us— look what he got, this and that and after while said—no job no more. Everybody pick up tools, mad, swear like hell. (chuckle) Well, I go out—he never ask me even and I go home where I been boarding over there—I think so no use staying over here. Might as well go back to Dexter. When I come back I remember it was like Decoration Day, I see it in Bridgeport—make the parade on Decoration Day. See I don't know what it been, I just know it was Decoration Day. And I come back to Dexter—I ask for job—they give me job for the other boiler room. The company have lot of factory not so far—maybe good size—the block away. They make a clear type of paper—the other one they make a rough paper—something like that. They give me the job for the helper—they wheel coal, yes, that's right, wheel coal just the same thing like before and said you going to get chance you going to get that job. And so some guy somebody going to quit job, helper, been quit, he don't want to work or something I don't know—he put me like helper. That fireman I before work in coal little bit I have change fireman sitting I took the shovel and I throw it, coal, shut the doors, I train myself. He show me how. He like me and he do something so he talked to night watchman been German ‘cause change every week, different shift, one week daytime and one week night time. He told something against those helpers say he don't want to work don't care much to working so he put me on there. One time the helper no come no more, they get fired. I don't know anyhow he no come no more. Last time I work with the helper, last time I work with the helper then those firemen get sick or something, I get head fireman. I been work 2 years or something like that. One time I get argument with the boss with the boiler room, ah, Jessup on account of big pipe—lift those clinkers what they call them they get banded too much to explain—I have on my mind to quit. To come to Endicott—then I quit them over there—I came to Endicott. In Endicott I got work with that carpenter. I don't know his name forgot his name he used to build those Burt Building contractor. So before that he work on houses living by the river, Susquehanna, few houses. After while we started build house get contract to build Cibulsky on Rogers Ave. See The Endicott Lumber Box Co. Make the contract The Box Co. make the contract on Saturday and about middle week U.S. declare war for the Germany. Nettie: What year was that? John: Oh, old country, yeah, U.S. declare war and they just start war business. Then I get job right away with the Box Co. He give me work he give me job carpenter so I work with Cibulsky house, Shefchuk house, and Prosmans… Besides working on other houses way up on other houses where the park (possibly Rabble Ave) pausing—thinking….That all right all right—somebody start talking about IBM—IBM they had just only had one building from that time had little building—supposed to be call ITR. I just try for the luck, so might get it job there. I ask for carpenter job there because IBM make clocks there. I go to office ask them there said maybe you get job but boss on vacation. Come back. You take the job, take anything to get inside, before boss come maybe they could show you job you ask for. I take the job where some kind of parts on machine on little machine they bend it you know. Work a little while then move (spare)—so IBM soon gonna pretty soon close it you know—no business—IBM—no IBM but I—well—Think so like that so I go to EJ—tannery. Before that I worked in the tannery too—forgot to mention see. But I get back the same job in tannery. Little by little IBM started to build up—but that too late. Nettie: Who was your boss in the Tannery? John: Where, EJ? Griffis just name I forgot but been old man but his son been boss too, foreman Lee Griffis I guess, I think so Lee. I work little while there sometime dinnertime had chance to go to boiler room over there to look around—I interesting in the fireman—all the time. I go over there to look around—been short U.S. take all men then for the war. Already they have been short. Asked boss about the job. He said here take this job, maybe few days, maybe so wheel ashes and coal and then I put you for regular fireman—they fire by the shovel at the time then after while they those put automatically. Then I started to work later two days or few weeks I don't know in the boiler room, one time I get sick a little bit—this had flu—start people get the flu— Nettie: Is that the influenza? John: Yes influenza, yes. I don't come to work—nobody been tell the boss, so I no show up—I been living at that new houses on Rogers Ave. See he come in the house—boss engineer room engine and the boiler, forgot his name. And said what is the matter? You sick? Yeah, feel been sick little bit not much well feel little bit. He said please if you can come to work—ain't got no men—all men been over there they take in the army be working on that job. Next day I come back to work. I came to work. I come back back to work until war was over. War was over that man on his job come back and put that man on his job on my place. They put me wheeling coal. I don't want it. Wheeling coal, I quit. I quit and then after a while I did not know what I did. Nettie: After the boys came back from service? John: From service yeah, same fella, they got job back. Nettie: So where did you work? John: I can remember—I guess I work spare time, carpenter and you know lots of steam heat-plumbing but I know little bit. Then I forget the track where I work. Nettie: Where did you live? Did you live with Cibulsky?  John: Yeah, I boarded up to Cibulsky—yeah—then war over—about year or year a half something like that—I take my wife over here and I move it up stairs—remember? Nettie: Yeah. John: I renter up there. Nettie: Your wife came from Europe. Did you get married here or over there? John: Ha! I got married in the old country. In old country before they said maybe I come second time over here—I forgot to mention—see when I come at 22 years—happen have 3 classes to join the army—Austria—I come from Austria. But then, after a while Poland taken—taken that—wife come from Poland because they Polish people, their country. So, I suppose to come before draft, last time, third time, two time no pass but third time pass—if no pass—you can marry—been low all the time. I couldn't come before third—finish it. They draft me to Army—Austria—well no call me—well I come I have to report to village right away. Next day I wait for call—they call me next year for doctor's like that. Nettie: You were in America when they called you? John: Over there old country. When time times got letter to go to doctor—to visit—they draft me that time and in fall or beginning spring. In the Fall they call me to doctor—to army. I been in army 12 months, no 12 weeks—you know why—the other way be 3 years. I make claim exemption—what they call—I make support—mother—They had village secretary they have to care few villages like that—she got voice—"a pull"—yeah, a pull—you just have to go for the training—something if happen bad you have to go just the same. They gave me release. When I come back—I marry after. I leave wife 9 months. Nettie: Then you came with Mrs. Warski to Endicott—is that right? Mrs. Warski and you came back to Endicott after married in Europe? John: Come to Rogers Ave. Nettie: How did you find the village there—not many houses in Endicott or buildings? John: Well, Cibulsky’s—North Side—no be many. Nettie: How about downtown, fire station—on Washington Ave.? John: They have State Bank—fire station—Endicott Trust Co.—fireman—fire— Nettie: Did they have many stores on Washington Ave.? John: When I come from Binghamton on a train—come from old country second time—I be mention to go back to paper mill—remember—yeah, after while I have little little argument with boss so I quit. I have in mind to come over here—I came to Binghamton—from Binghamton take street car to Endicott to Cibulsky’s—living up there. The street car—I told you I go old country back. In street car nothing—just street car—farms, farms, nothing—Johnson City—just little bit houses. I come to Endicott some places—lots of many have sidewalks from the boards—some places have no sidewalks, at all—No (greens). Come to Cibulsky’s rented house on Odell Ave.—they use have Greek Ice cream parlor, Trubach—they make a suit. Cibulsky—I lived up there—kitchen upstairs and two small rooms—Schuler live been with wife, have kids already—John been already there. (Chuckling) They put couch in the kitchen by the stove—he sleeping there, Cibulsky. When I got job with carpenter—I make in few different places—you know, Burt Store—you know they started before I worked there. Then we start talking about houses—Cibulsky, she say, “John, please talking maybe built house because he go away and spend money all the time.” “All right, I gonna try.” One time I talk to him, I say you make house, that no good. Well, if you want I help you. I told him—maybe give him money—I did not mention I gonna borrow money—but I help you. Then we start talk ‘bout plans and houses and lot. No place to build house. He work in Calfskin Tannery that time—I work in boiler room—no, I don't yet—that all right—I don't work in EJ yet—I work in Box Co. building houses—he said he didn't want go go to Sales Building to lawyer asking about lot—give it free. Nettie: Gave lots to workers free? John: Yeah. Sure! Well he says he don't want to go—just told me—just go take a lot—ask for lot. I go and they never ask me, “you work over here or not?” No lawyer ask me. They give me lot by the lot by the Miszaks—Squires Ave… When we start making contract—Box Co. ask for the lot. We give them deed told them where that lot is—he go Sales Building—Box Co. after we come back—later we get letter that lot somebody use it—ain't got no lot. They make plans for house already—just to build the house. They go ask Sales Building to ask to give you another lot. I go Sales Building—I told him—I told him something like that—you give lot to somebody else. They give Rogers Ave—They say Warski, you want that—that is the only place on all Rogers Ave.—they have no sewer but pretty soon they have sewers. We take that where house stands and they start to build that house and I get that job over there—I ask them—I work over there on that house. Nettie: When did you work in the tannery—after you built houses? John: Yeah, after while when they finish the building—something—Box Co. don't have no job—stop the building—so I go to tannery. Then I get fireman that man after while that man come from—I take his place—here I mentioned before. Well I go take—he take—to my job on machine inside tannery. Well, I work until—all you know how it happened—cut out—closed—no more tannery, there. Nettie: No more tannery? What? John: IBM they got.  Nettie: Now, but am I talking about before that?  John: I working ‘til pretty soon near finish—I go to retire—before— Nettie: Before you retired, you did not finish telling me about the time before you were building houses, all? When did your wife come— John: After that? Came from Europe.  Nettie: And you had your own home on Roosevelt Ave? John: My wife come in Rogers Ave. We live it already there—I rent upstairs and I paid board downstairs. Then I tell been in the hall—my wife—we live during winter time, we don't want to move it—people, see, I gonna move it out in spring, this people move out and I move it upstairs. Nettie: Did you have electricity, then, in the house? John: In Rogers Ave.—yes and then when I live it with Cibulsky come late—this and this—I don't want to talk over there about it—you know how it is—decided might as well build own house, have lot already. I hire contractor, dig cellar, put concrete wall, (petition), everythings I do myself, not myself, Cibulsky help me. Somebody else, somebody—some friend help me, plasterman—I have electricity, too well, all finishing work inside I do myself. I work in tannery, night time. Spare time I work house myself. I have no electricity that time like Rogers Ave. Nettie: What did you use for electricity? John: I use, borrow Pizur lamp go fishing before I get my electric. Then I put plumbing heat myself, some little help, myself. Nettie: What church did you attend? John: Well when I comes over to Endicott they have no church, they have Roman Catholic, I been board with Slavic people and they belong that Slavic church and she started, the lady, “What doncha come—to one time—big bunch of men go Sunday church.” Well, we say we try the church—we understand nothing—I do what they do, that's all. We come to here in Binghamton we go to Baxter Street one time and then I come to Endicott—they have there Cibulsky, was there—I started to go Endicott church.  Nettie: Many families or very few familes when you went there? John: Those (Hrodenski) they no like - you know. Nettie: Where they Carpo-Russians? John: No—from Russia—those from Hrodenski gubernia—no can explain—they don't like to go church much and they—we—mostly mostly those (oohorski)—Carpo-Russians—they ruin that church that time—the be boss that church that time—they after while they split. They call meeting, lawyer come, they make a splitting, they have 4 or 5 lots where school is—front of church and half cemetery—they’re take those lots. Nettie: Who took the lots? John: The Carpatho-Russians. See, they have safe—the Carpatho-Russians—those oohorski—like this something—they, Russian put make red ink. Nettie: When do they mean red mark? John: They mark something difference—last heard that, I never see that—they no explain they go to court, supposed to be go to court. That time, Russian priest been Borisoff—he had safe, small safe, in church now. He knows lock in safe and book, Bible, book record, by law. Nettie: Book of By-Laws? John: Yes, he look everything been side—Carpatho-Russian this side no good. Something like that. Take that book—destroy it—that priest—put someplace in the fire. They changed lock in safe and when come open it—you want to open it—try open—they open—they can't open—the leaders—they take those safe to court and courtroom open safe to show proof who boss. (Chuckling) And when come to court, open safe—hire somebody—I never been there—I don't know—then open it, was been surprised—nothing there—they find no record—no record—given to Russian—got be Russian, go away somewhere. After a while got to take safe back to church—I got motorcycle, side car, I take the safe in sidecar. Nettie: Did you put the safe in sidecar? John: I put safe in sidecar and was so heavy that pressed down and take back house. Nettie: Church was built—did they say—about monks built the church? John: Build church, like mostly cheap way, like shack, plaster like that—they don't have nothing much—have have (prestol)—built from the boxes like that—(this part in Russian—translation) lector reads below—the priest Rashtakoff had a book on instructions—he read up on it which told how the altar table should be built. That is difficult—this way, this way, put the top on (ha! ha!) make something like this—then monks hire from monastery—they build the bell and iconostasis—the iconostasis they build but posts—suppose to be—they make different—they have saw and hammer they got—they hire 2 men from Binghamton to make—do that—iconostasis—they just make post—no tsarski dverior royal doors—just opening—then I—left—they left—no finish, complain, don't make no money. Then I think to myself—I make the tsarski dveri—royal doors in garage Rogers Ave. Those posts—come plaster paris—those posts come—they design—they have to make hollow—that caps—lots of work—bottom have to be filled—inside cap hollow—some kind fit to even up—take time. Then I look around—new church—not much old church—repairs—bell—leaking around closet— Nettie: What year new church started? John: I think 1914—1916 been already. Nettie: When you talk of your house, how much to build your house fifty years ago? John: I never keep track because I do work myself—somebody help me—little bit I make checks to pay for material—just like that—pay cash—never keep track—never bother to keep track. One time have time to figure how much cost—I lost and forgot about it. Nettie: How many children did you have? John: Three children. When retire from EJ—66 years—I work—wait when my wife get pension—65 years old. Nettie: Did your wife work? John: No, she work in house—she get half—I had 66 years—77—89 years now. Nettie: After your wife died then you sold your home? John: I live there pretty near 10 years alone—sold 2 years ago. Nettie: Do you live with your son and daughter in law at present? John: Yes. Nettie: Were you glad you came here instead of living in Europe? John: I was glad to be get here what I have there—I got to work for somebody else just like I get eat twice a day—and 30 and 40 cents a daytime. Just like I come first like come go back to old country before—I try it I make one of those carpenter job business, in the house. I figure I work on the land for somebody—I want to make some money. Nettie: Where, here or there? John: Here. And where (spotty) work—I make those furniture—somebody in village give me make table, bed anything like that. I had neighbor work wagon make wheel—wagon—they call it—he know I handy—he need help. He said learn those things. He been good mechanic—hell of lot better than I, needs work on wagon—business then make table something, like that. Better come to help me—3 years—learn make wheel. Nettie: Like an apprentice? John: Yeah. This is better—you make table—something like that—he had store—little store, too—had a farm—little big farm—he can get—take so many jobs—he good mechanic—want to push for that thing it away—people waiting for—You learn it. You have better trade. Then I get neighbor—about block away—when come to work, eat sleep that's all—all right. I have my own bench. When I come to this country—I have been—brothers—they have somebody use—they need repair I make them new one—make new one—sometimes old one they throw away—bench take his house—he got his own if he have time—he got to work on farm—I come—first he show me—he give me job with a knife—to make a spoke. First thing plane on one end—scrape—then round it—give me—came from the farm—he been working farm. Well how wheels you make it on farm—look it over—I just finish it—look it over—I just been finish and he look over and said, “By gosh, you been make than I.” Then—this, this. I stay 3 months—finish my job—times come—I learn my job—I had just time—times come in—I go this country—have no change to work. Besides here I travel, Bridgeport. I forgot to mention—I don't like that job—I can't get into shipyards. I forget—I take walk in street—see sign “Wheel Wright”—make wagon repair. Like that sometime horses pull wagon—wheel go broke—take shop and repair it. They was one German and one Irish. I look them over—there they make ‘em body, first body they see just body of bus—school drived kids—before like taxi—bodies make there—Slovak work there on this body—Body like bus—like delivery—bus big one. We started talking with Slovak we mention—he asked me who I am—explain—what I did old country—this—this we need men like you over here—other man fixed wheel—sometimes broken wheel—sometimes he come to work and sometimes not. Those boss want to push him out but he afraid to push him out because no replace it—used to be got different job—see—like a regular school bus. Say, “Who want to take that job?” Said different work like old country but I fix you up—I show you—it easy—all right—you got a job. Come tomorrow—I have no clothes for that job—I loan you—you buy some. When I came those men no show up—get drunk—they never come. l work about 1 month—have no place to board—sleep like dog—any place—I no like it—I quit. I don’t want—I can’t eat, got to restaurant—something like that went—so many people in Bridgeport because they shipyard—so many workers over there. They say—I tell Slovak—try again—make me restaurant—boarding house—something like that—I take the boarding house—I have nothing left for me. What have nothing pay? I quit. I tell the boss—and he say, “MMMMMMMMMMMM—if I knew—I fire those men—what am I going to do now?” (Chuckle) Then I quit, go back to paper mill. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John Warski Subject The topic of the resource Warski, John -- Interviews; Austria; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Jessup (Pa.); Endicott (N.Y.); Immigrants -- Interviews; Carpenters -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; House construction Description An account of the resource John Warski talks about his interest in carpentry as a young boy after emigrating to the U.S. in 1907 from Austria, and going to Jessup, PA. He describes finding his way in a new country on his own and finding working in the boiler room at a factory where he shoveled coal into the boiler. He tells of leaving to go work in Endicott as a carpenter, and later at Endicott Johnson. He also discusses building his home. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 62 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/b4d90ba1e9c94c5c2e6d1042172dc847.mp3 5c447201f92ca6814b58f595563085ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Templeton, Lena Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-02-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13:26 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56039">Interview with Lena Templeton</a> Subject LCSH Templeton, Lena -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pleasantmount (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Ansco Company -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers Dance class Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Lena Templeton Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 1 February 1978 Susan: Mrs. Templeton, could you tell us a little about your early beginnings, where you were born? Lena: I was born in Pleasantmount, PA, on a little farm. A–and I lived there ‘til I was about seven years old. I started school there and the school teacher used to live with us during the bad winter weather, which we had piles and piles of snow in those days. We lived down there and my father used to hitch the jackass up to a little sleigh and we would go to school through the woods and then he’d have to come and get us and it was a one room school house and uh just sometimes the fire was out and we would freeze ah it was really something. Well, I went to school there a couple of years and and–ah then ah–my family–we moved to Pleasantmount in the village. That was outside about 3 miles where I started school, so we moved to the village and my father was in the livery business–raced horses around to the fairs and ah–I went to school there–a–I went to high school–I was in the eleventh grade and my father he moved to New York State. Ah–was working for a realtor–oh Mr. Hoffman and they had a lot of land up to Conklin and they said they were going to fix it up and that lasted a few years and a when I was–a–18 years old I went to work to take care of twins and I stayed there nine months and then ah Dr. George Fox, a skin specialist in Binghamton on Main St.–ah–he wanted me to come and take care of the office for him. They had no nurses those days, you know. They they took care of their own. So, I went there and I was there for 5 ½ years. So, when I was 24 I was married and still around Binghamton and had four children–had twin girls and I a got married of course when I was 24 years old. And something interesting too, my father-in-law came over from Scotland, Ireland in a boat and I can't tell how many–a weeks or months they were coming over but just in an open boat. They came over from Scotland, Ireland and I never did see him but ah it is ah my father-in-law used to tell about what a rough time it was and that it was a miracle that they made it you know. At that time there was no transportation by water. That was a good many years ago. Well, I brought up my family and went to work at Ansco's. I was 42 years old and it was during the war and I ah loved my work. I did everything. I did packing. I took a man's job at one time as stock girl and I did perforating the film ah but the last 12 years there, I was a group leader and I enjoyed it and I missed it when I retired, very much. I enjoyed the friends I made and a it was a good place to work and it was those days a lot different than it is today. I started out at about $25 a week and when I finished up I was making better than a hundred clear. So–ah–that a was a very a interesting work and I made a lot of friends and I still have them so now I ended up retired and working here 8 years and I–really my life's not too interesting. (chuckle) Susan: Well, it’s nice to–to be useful and that you’re helpful keeping house for this gentleman. Lena: Oh and he appreciates it a lot. You know, one of his daughters is married to Dr. Gilmore. Susan: Oh, did she? Lena: Yes, that’s her coming in now. Susan: Where does he practice? Lena: Oh, he’s had a heart attack. He’s not practicing anymore. They’re in Florida, they’re just up here for business. That’s his wife. That’s his daughter—they don’t come too much. Susan: Mrs. Templeton, let’s continue when you retired from Ansco. What you did with your life? Lena: When I retired from Ansco the first year I was lost for something to do so I took up dancing took lessons for a year and I enjoyed it so much. It was something that I wanted to do all my life and a we traveled around and put shows on here and there and a it was very enjoyable and I use it now I feel so relaxed and free if I go out now, you know, I’m able to do most all the dances. And then I was–a–just a by myself and I thought there is something I can do. So I watched the paper–they wanted somebody to come in to take care of an elderly couple so I started down there and I enjoyed it and a I’m still there. It will be 8 years this month that I have been here and it gives me something to do and it’s very satisfying to think that you’re helping somebody each day. Susan: And now I don’t think you’d mind telling us how old you are? Lena: No. I’ll be 77 April 27th. Susan: Well, that is wonderful. Lena: Ha–ha–But those dancing lessons, I really got a lot out of them. You know my daughters were so happy when I did it. All my life I–I wanted to I could dance, but not really good you know. But a–we went all over Elmira and put on dances. We had a ball. We had dance frocks and I felt so elegant. And you know, if there is something a–a–if there is something in your mind that you’d like to do–you have the opportunity to do it, it’s good to do it get it over with because you’re so satisfied with yourself that you accomplished it you know. Susan: That’s right. Lena: You’d be surprised those senior citizens how beautiful they dance just marvelous and some of those old ladies they’re in their 80s, they can just step around there like a feather beautiful, do all the new dances, the Bump. They do everything not just the waltz and foxtrot and what have you. They do everything. You should see it would be worth it just to go over and see them. Once a month they have a dinner and a dinner dance and they have live music, you know and you’d be surprised to see them, it’s really marvelous. Susan: Well, I think I am going to make a point to go and watch some of the activities since I have been talking with people. Lena: Sure, you just enjoy watching them. I haven’t been up recently. I had a bad knee. I had bursitis in it and I didn’t get–I got into work and back but I didn’t take in any of the you know–activities. I went to the State Hospital every month like that, but a– Susan: Is that part of your voluntary work in the community? Lena: Yeah–uh ha–yeah. Susan: What did you do there? Lena: Where? State Hospital? Susan: Yeah. Lena: We took refreshments there were about five or six of us went up a and that was from the Moose Club. We were members of the Moose Club and we took refreshments, sandwiches and cake and we–a–played bingo ‘til nine o’clock and then Easter we gave them a party, Christmas we gave them a party and in July we gave them a big dinner–half a chicken, watermelon and baked beans and salads. You never saw such a happy crowd in all your life. And we have about 75-80 of them that are able you know enjoy it and play bingo and what have you. It was really–is satisfying when I first went up there it was kind of depressing but now, I wouldn’t miss it for anything because when I go home I feel so good. They are just such happy faces. When you go there they are all waving at you you know and if you have different jewelry on they’ll say where’s your cameo, where is this or where is that you know they really are–they really are so happy to see you and some of them they–they you know aren’t able to come but that picnic–they look forward to it. They are talking about it for weeks before we go up there. If it’s nice we have it outdoors, if not, we have it inside. But that’s a big job. We fix the chickens at the Moose Club you know and take them up in roasters and we fix salads and watermelon usually–they do love watermelon but they have a ball. They feed them good up there but there’s things that they don’t get you know. They get good substantial food you know but not–not any goodies up there that you ordinarily get at home. So, I really was busy before I came to work but it’s like my daughters say to me, you know they kid me a lot they say, “Mother you know what, it’s gotten to the point where we have to make an appointment with you in order to get you on the phone or anything,” because I’m never home. Susan: Tell us about how you go bowling with them. Lena: How I go bowling with them? Susan: At your age. Lena: Oh well I bowl once a week and I bowl with my twin daughters and two granddaughters and we have a ball. I look forward to it every week and I’d miss it if I didn’t go. It really is relaxing and no matter how tired I am when I bowl I feel relaxed. I go home and I feel like a new person. It’s always been that way. I bowled when I was at Ansco’s too you know so I don’t bowl as well as I used to but we’re second place we were last year so we don’t mind. Susan: Well, you certainly have been a very active woman in the community. Lena: Yes, thank you I have and I was active when I brought my family up too you better believe it. I had twins and I nursed them 8 ½ months without a bottle and did my own work and had one 2 years old at the time too so I had three babies. Susan: Well thank you very much for the interview Mrs. Templeton. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lena Templeton Subject The topic of the resource Templeton, Lena -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pleasantmount (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Ansco Company -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers Description An account of the resource Lena Templeton talks about her childhood growing up on a farm in Pleasantmount, PA and her early education, and eventually moving to New York state. She discusses early work taking care of the office of a skin specialist in Binghamton, NY then getting married and having children, and finding work at Ansco's during the war. She details working at Ansco's including tasks she performed. She speaks about her interests and activities (dancing) as a retiree and her volunteer work in the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 60 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f0e311fc930b98671ed9b4925b795b96.mp3 230a47a39051a06ef761d0e05b33eecc https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/658c9267362880e2e70d674158dd629b.mp3 dd5de00e982da20488acc88269486a77 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56941">Interview with Leo J. Payne</a> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:47 minutes ; 7:19 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Material Type Sound Subject LCSH Payne, Leo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview with: Leo J. Payne Interviewer: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 10 February 1978 Dan: Mr. Payne, will you please tell me about your life and working experiences in the community starting with the early days, including the place of birth, education and family life with emphasis on your working experiences? Mr. Payne: Well I, ah, of course was born in Towanda, Pennsylvania, ah, the family moved to Binghamton when I was two years old and ah, we, ah, my father went to work for Cyrus Clapp on ah Chenango Street–19 Chenango Street as a coachman and ah when I was five years old he ah went into trucking business for himself with a cart wagon and ah two horses and he moved to 25 Sherman Place. I was ah just as a small boy when ah he took me up to watch the ah ah the Courthouse burn down. We ah I saw that, that was quite a place and was up on quite a hill at that time. Now let’s see ah I ah I went to ah Carroll Street School until I was around 8 years old and then to ah Washington Street School–now the ah police station, where the Police Station used to be and ah when I was 12 years old, I went to to ah Central High School (Clock Chimes) and ah got my education there. After that I went to Riley's Business School that was oh can't think the name of that little street and ah from there I ah got a position as a Bookkeeper and Stenographer with ah Harry Doherty, who runs one of the first garages in Binghamton selling the Pierce Arrows and the White Steamers–not the Pierce Arrows, the Cadillacs and the Stanley Steamers. Ah business got bad and ah I was ah laid off. I went back to help my father then shovel coal–he used to have a contract with them and the Binghamton Cold Storage company. After about six months, a Professor Riley got me a position as a Bookkeeper and Stenographer at, ah, G.A. Glark Company in Sidney, N.Y. I stayed there until my–I worked too much inside–my Doctor told me I’d have to get outdoors or get a coffin–so the only thing I know what to do, I sold my house in Sidney and came down and bought out ah Rich ah Millard–he had that ah ah trucking business that people put him in business but he didn't want no business and so finally they ah put it up for sale but that was at the same time–so I came down and looked. He had two trucks & ah made a payment on them–I bought them. I went back to ah Sydney to get the ah ah additional loan so I could pay for it as my boss, my boss G.A. Clark's brother was President of the Sidney National Bank. Well I ah got along very good. After a couple years ah Mr. Clark came down, wanted to buy my trucks and ah have me come back to work and then my wife–I got married in between and ah at ah Cynthia Gifford, whose father was President of the ah People’s Trust Company in Sidney–he disowned her for you know ah marrying a colored man and ah we got, we got along very good. We came down to Binghamton and got married at the Centenary Church. I can remember at that time my people were living at 173 Henry Street in Binghamton. Had a, well, I got along very good by industrious working–I done a lot of work myself and I went around and worked up a very good business and finally connected with ah the Kroehler Manufacturing Company in 1930 and ah drawing furniture for them to different towns and ah I worked for them until around 1970, I think, in 1968 or 70 when I an gave ah a tractor and trailer one each to my two brothers, who were working for me and ah told them that they could go for their own as a gypsy as they had no rights–Interstate rights see, which I did have and I continued in a small way ah with a couple of moving vans doing moving jobs around ah near Binghamton as possible and in Binghamton and still doing it. Now that’s about all I ah had two children–one of my sons, Clark Payne, and we named him after my ah earlier boss in Sidney and ah he died here a short time ago and my daughter Doris is still with me and ah looking after me. I've had several heart attacks and ah two years ago I had two heart plants and ah, what you call it, pacemakers. Dan: Pacemakers. Mr. Payne: Put in and at the present time I'm feeling quite well. Dan: That’s fine. Mr. Payne: Now that’s about– Dan: How old are you, Mr. Payne? Mr. Payne: I’m 80–89 years old that 1st of February. Dan: Great, great, great. Now what year did you buy the Richard Millard Company? Mr. Payne: 1917. Dan: 1917 and when did you get married–what year? Mr. Payne: Oh dear, let’s see, 1913. Dan: 1913 Mr. Payne: Well I was married twice. Dan: I see. Mr. Payne: I was married in 1910 the first time. My wife died of childbirth. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: And they had ah close the operation. Dan: I see, did the baby die too? Mr. Payne: They died before. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: So they had to force the operation but they didn’t have no hospitals there in Sidney and they just ah a couple of Doctors and ah they ah charged an operation with car batteries like–yeah they were car batteries some way but ah she only lived two days afterwards. Dan: I see, I see. Mr. Payne: But the second time, I was married in 1913. Dan: In 1913 the second time and when did your wife die or is she still livine? Mr. Payne (to daughter Doris): Oh when did your Mother die, do you remember? Doris: December 7th ‘69. Dan: December 7th ‘69. Now you mentioned that you were kind of disowned by the family because ah of– Mr. Payne: Of racial– Dan: Of racial discrimination there, yeah. Now did you encounter any racial discrimination here, Mr Payne? Mr. Payne: I, I never ah ah had ah any ah racial ah ah trouble here in Binghamton at all–never. Dan: Never. Mr. Payne: I went any place anybody else could go and was received. Dan: Um hum. Mr. Payne: ‘Cause I always tried to live a life that people would respect me. I joined the Masonic Lodge as soon as I could join and I ah was very ah enthusiastic about Masonic work and I finally ah ah rose up until now I am a Past Grand Master of the State Prince Hall affiliation of Masonic work. Dan: What church do you belong to? Mr. Payne: Trinity M.E. Zion. Dan: OK, do you belong to any clubs there at all? Mr. Payne: What’s that? Dan: Do you belong to any clubs there at all? Mr. Payne: Clubs, no I never joined anything else because I’ve always been very active in my Church work. For 15 years I was Chairman of the ah ah church Board. I ah put the church and an apartment next to it in the ah church’s ah lap without investing a cent. Free and clear–I had to use my head a little. Ah the ah State took over the parsonage for forty ah ah they only offered $450.00 for it. Dan: Is that right? Mr. Payne: Thats when they started clearing out for the playgrounds on ah Sherman Place. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: So, being very active in church work, they ah the ah church association here ah heard that I was looking for a parsonage–so the Chairman of the Church Board here called me up said, "Mr. Payne, I hear you're looking for a parsonage.” I said, "Yes, but I can't get ahit [sic] for what the ah anything for what they want to allow me for ah my old parsonage because anything I looked at was from 10 to 12 thousand, 12 hundred dollars.” So I says, he says, "Well how would you like to buy a church and a parsonage?” I says, “I’ll tell you, Reverend, I haven’t got five cents to invest. We are $1100.00 in the hole.” He says, "Well, could you have a couple of your board members meet me at the church on the corner of Lydia & Oak at 2 o'clock?" Yes sir, so I got ‘em, cause I was very active then and ah I looked the place over and ah he said, "Now ah IBM ah not IBM, GAF wants to ah buy the corner and ah put ah ah watering place there and ah Kradjian wants it to tear down and put ah ah development there, he said, but we rather have it for a church–Now it'll have to go up for a bid–could you make me a bid?" I said, "Well listen Rev, the best I could do would he $20,000.00.” He says, "Well I’ll take your bid in–how could you pay for it?” I said, "Cash." He says "What? I thought you was broke.” I am so I says, "I'll take care of it. I'll get in touch with you just within the next couple days.” So I called my head Minister up and I told him I says "You go see the Priest at ah St. Mary’s on ah Hawley and Fayette Street and tell him ‘cause he had asked me once before for a price on my church which was in very bad shape and he offered me $10,000.00 for it." Well I said 10 then 4, all right. I called Mrs. Titchner up–she was the development ah Superintendent here at that time–and I says, “Mrs. Titchner, I've got a proposition–it’s only good for a week. I've got to have at least $8,000.00 for the parsonage." [She says,] “Oh, Mr. Payne, I could never get that much.” I said, "Well I'm going to tell you what I've got in mind. I said I have ah offered the Church to the ah St. Mary’s ah Catholic Church for $15,000.00. I've given them a week’s, ah, option, I said, otherwise I'm gonna rebuild it" and ah (Clock chimes) she said, "Well I'm going to tell you what I'll do, Mr. Payne. I, I, I appreciate what you're doing, I'll call the State and see what I can do for you. I'll tell them the situation.” About three days afterwards, she called back and said, "OK, you can have the $8,000.00"--so I got that $8,000.00. The, the Priest saw my Minister and told him he’d take it, so I got $15,000.00–so I got $23,000.00, see, without a dime invested no place and ah I don't know, it was transacted through ah the First City National Bank and I met there with them. Ah the President of the Bank at that time said, "I don't know I ah Mr. Payne, you' re marvelous, I ah wish we had a Chairman that could work it like you worked it." (Laughter) So I took the $20,000.00 ah ah to them to for the church, I mean to pay for it–I had $3000.00 left, I paid the $1100.00 off that ah we owed and ah cause the ceiling was falling down and ah I had that fixed and that’s what I owed and then I took a couple thousand dollars they ah they ah–the furnace was bad so I put a new furnace in or used one that was in very good shape I bought from Fred Kennedy–at that time he was in the ah ah used building ah business and ah used the rest of the money for decorating the inside and what we could on the outside painting he says and they didn't cost them a dime. (Laughter) Dan: Ah, now what you said, you went to Central High School–did you graduate from ah Central High School? Mr. Payne: I ah ah quit ah ah in the ah eleventh grade to go to ah cause my family was in a little bad shape to go to they had enough money to send me to Riley's Business College and so I, I didn't quite finish ah for that and went to Riley's Business College. Riley's son and I had been friends ever since we was small kids and ah he told me I've ah had enough education for what he can give me so I don't need no more and he'll see that I get a break cause there was a lot of prejudices you know at that time in Binghamton. Dan: Lot of what, lot of what? Mr. Payne: Prejudices. Dan: Oh, prejudices. Mr. Payne: Yeah, I can remember that ah Ralph Hackett was in charge of ah the ah G.F. Pavilion and ah he ah I don't know, I wanted to raise money for the Lodge, see if we could buy a place eventually, so I started ah ah giving some dances around and I went down to see Ralph cause we had been friends ah otherwise and ah I asked him if we could rent it. He says, "Oh, this is strictly ah ah company ah company place of amusement and it’s not for rent to anybody.” I says, “Well you tell ah George F. that I want it at least twice a year–once in the spring and once in the fall for a Masonic dance and I want to improve the colored people in Binghamton as much as possible," and ah so anyhow ah he said to tell Ralph to let me have it once or twice a year– once in the spring and once in the fall, so Ralph and I got to be quite friends. So they was ah bringing name bands here for their dances and ah so ah–oh, I'm trying to think of his name now, oh he was a good friend of mine. He just died. Oh colored ah band Leader–tops–what was his name? Oh dear, he was a composer as well as ah ah– Dan: Wouldn’t be Garner there, would it? Mr. Payne: What? Dan: Would it be Garner, Garner? Mr. Payne: No–Duke Ellington. Dan: Duke Ellington. Mr. Payne: Yeah, he came here. They wouldn't let him, they had 20 people. They wouldn't let his ah ah his group stay overnight in any hotel here. Dan: What year was this? Mr. Payne: Oh God, I don't quite remember the year, but anyhow, let’s see, Ralph called me up and wanted to know if I could find places for them to stay overnight among my friends because you know I you know because I was in top shape and had very good friends. I finally got 'em enough to room so I went back down–he come here on a bus with his band and ah I told him what I had done. He says, "Well listen, ah ah Mr. Payne, I'm I’m very thankful for what vou've done, but these white people in Binghamton do so and so, which I can't ever repeat.” Dan: In other words, in other words, there was discrimination. Mr. Payne: "From now on I'm going to play this engagement and I'm leaving afterwards and they'll get on their knees to get me back here again and they'll do it too.” And they really did and finally ah after many years they got him to come back. Dan: You know the Ku Klux Klan was very active at one time here in this city, wasn't it? Mr. Payne: All right - I had that, at that time when the Ku Klux Klan was active here in Binghamton, had a Convention here, I can't remember the date. It was in the 20s. Ah I was, ah, backed on Centenary Street with my truck, loading some furniture, and it blocked off the street and ah a guy come by with a pickup truck and wanted me to move my truck out of the street londside. Well I told him I couldn't do it because we was getting ready to put a piano in and ah he'd have to wait. Well I ain't waiting but he did ah went up on the sidewalk on the other side and he clipped the front of ah my truck. So I jumped out there boy and I let him have one. So he says, "We got an organization going to take care of you." I says, “Oh you have, well I've got an organization that says you can’t." I was very proud of proud to belong–I didn't belong of of to be a friend of the Mafia, that was here. That was ah at that time I had ah a associate business of welding on Collier Street, which was known at that time as Automobile Row and ah this one particular friend there was a liquor ah ah ah bar room on each side of where I was ah ah I had my welding shop and ah I this is where I met this one of the heads of the Mafia, who became a very good friend of mine. I told him about what this guy said ‘cause I know they was quite strong from talking with them before because there was a lot of Italian people down around that way, see. He says, ''All right, they're having ah ah big time here next year, Ku Klux Klan, I'm going with you and we're going up and see that parade and I want to tell them something anyhow." So we went up and stood on the corner of Chenango and Henry. All right, this ah parade come down and this big shot stopped right in front of us–so right away quick my pal says, "Listen you so and so, this is my pal Leo Payne, I heard that you was ah looking for him and here he is. If you touch one hair of his head, I blow your head off." And then he told me if I, I wanted him at that time, anybody put out of the way, for $125 .00 I could have it done and nobody would be the wiser who done it. Dan: Now you ah did you encounter any other prejudices as far as the white people in the community? Mr. Payne: Never had any trouble at all. Dan: No, no trouble at all. You're an old established family here, Mr. Payne. Mr. Payne: What? Dan: You’re an old established family here–respected family.. Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: You are. Now you said your dad was in business in the piano moving business before you? Mr. Payne: He was in the moving business. Dan: Moving business. Mr. Payne: Moved anything, cleaning out cellars and moving. Dan: How long was he in business? Mr. Payne: Oh dear, uh uh until he died. Dan: Until he died–what year would that be approximately? Mr. Payne: I think, let’s see, he's been dead about 16 years. Dan: lb years. Mr. Payne: Yeah, and my mother died right afterwards–the next year. Dan: About 1961 then, huh? Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: Uh huh, 62. Mr. Payne: They're buried in ah Chenango Valley Cemetery. So when my wife died, I bought five lots up there for my immediate family which I still own. Put a stone up there for both my wife and myself. Dan: Now you worked from 1917, when you started in business, right up until 67–did you say 1967 - 68? Mr. Payne: I quit work ah about ah oh about 4 years ago, myself that is, doing any labor. Dan: Oh you did. Did you that soon, huh? Just 4 years ago. Mr. Payne: Yes that’s all. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: I was good right up ‘til then. Dan: Who's carrying on your business now, Mr. Payne? Mr. Payne: Well I am. Dan: Oh, are you? Mr. Payne: Sure, I just answer the phone or have my daughter, if I can't hear–she answers for me. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: And I have a couple friends of mine that worked with me when I was ah ah driving myself years and years ago. Dan: Now what was the pay scale when you started out down in back in 1917. How much were you making - how much were you making yourself back in 1917? Mr. Payne: Ah, I was getting top pay $20.00. nan: $20.00 a week? Mr. Payne: Yeah. Dan: That’s out of your business? Mr. Payne: No, I ah ah that’s what I got up in Sidney. Dan : Oh, in Sidney. Mr. Payne: At the end. Dan: I see, but when you got in business for yourself? Mr. Payne: I just, whatever I made, I made and that’s it. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: And I improved my business as much as I could until finally I got tired and figured that I had enough. (Clock Chimes). I had a home up on South Washington Street which–when I, I got the first ah heart attack–everything was turned over to my daughter who has taken over since then. Dan: Yeah, how long have you lived here, sir? Mr. Payne: 4 years. Dan: 4 years Mr. Payne: About 4 years, maybe 5. Dan : Uh huh. Mr. Payne: It’s all paid for. Dan: Now ah this Henry Doherty that you spoke of–how do you spell his last name? Mr. Payne: D-O-H-E-R-T-Y.. Dan: Now you remember the Courthouse when it burned down? Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: That was quite a few years ago, because that’s rebuilt. Mr. Payne: I think around, ah, I was about 5 years old. 1904, I think. Dan: 1904 is when it was built, I think, wasn't it or was it? Mr. Payne: Well it was just ahead. I was only just around about 4 or 5 years old. Dan: 4 or 5 years old. Mr. Payne: Yeah, because I know my Father, ah, we were living on Sherman Place only just below there a little ways. I seen so many changes. Dan: And you say you started out in the Cyrus Clapp– Mr. Payne: Yes, working for Cyrus Clapp. Dan: Did this, was the–you worked for Cyrus Clapp? Mr. Payne: That’s right–he sold out where the Press Building is. Dan: I see. Mr. Payne: And that’s where I lived in right behind there in the carriage house when we first moved here. Dan: Is that right? Mr. Payne: Yes, upstairs over the carriage. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: Where they kept the horses. Dan: You're 89 years old now, so it'd be 87 years ago that you lived in back. Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: Before the Press Building was built. Mr. Payne: Oh yes, yeah, there was quite a knoll there, yes. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: Which has all been distributed, I mean taken away, you know. Tommy, I think it was Tommy lived next door–he was rich too. I remember Conklin used to live on the corner of Exchange and Hawley Street and that was up on a hill where the YMCA is now and us kids used to ah get barrel staves and ah make skis (Laughter) and ride down there in the wintertime. Dan: So you were down in Sherman Place, ah, was where your business started or where you moved to–Sherman Place at one time. Mr. Payne: When I come? Dan: Yeah. Mr. Payne: My father was living on Exchange Street at the time. Dan: Yeah Mr. Payne: And I come down and, ah, lived with him for a few months when I moved over on ah ah 35 DeRussey Street. Dan: Is that where you started in business on DeRussey Street? Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: 35–I lived upstairs over Sam Katz. Dan: Uh huh, yeah, South Washington Street (to daughter) right right–I can remember when the DeRussey Street bridge went out. Mr. Payne: Oh dear. Dan: Uh huh. Well is there anything else you would like to add, Mr. Payne, before I– Mr. Payne: Well truthfully I can't think of anything of importance. Dan: You're a very successful business man. Very well respected in your community. Mr. Payne: I have been until just the last couple of months. Dan: Uh huh Mr. Payne: I had very bad luck from vandals–poured some water in the crankcase of my truck and it swelted such, the motor, and I had to have a new one put in and ah it cost me $1635.00 to get another motor put in. Dan: Gee. Mr. Payne: And then I burned up my Cadillac. Dan: Gee, everything comes at once. Mr. Payne: Right out here in the yard. Dan: Now when you first started your business, you got a loan from the Bank in Sidney–is that right? Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: And then you–how many trucks do you own now? Mr. Payne: l've only got ah the one I'm keeping now–I'm using. Dan: OK well, I certainly thank you very much, Mr. Payne–I'll play this back for you so you can hear how your own voice sounds. Date of Interview 1978-02-10 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dan O'Neil Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Leo J. Payne Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leo J. Payne Description An account of the resource Leo Payne speaks of his early childhood growing up in Binghamton and later working as a bookkeeper and stenographer. He owned his own trucking company in Binghamton in the early twentieth century. He discusses his inter-racial marriage and the death of his first wife in childbirth because there were no hospitals in Sidney, N.Y. where his wife had gone into labor. He was active in a Masonic Lodge and in his church, Trinity M.F. Zion, the latter for which he assisted in securing a new church building. He also discusses discrimination and discriminatory business practices in the area at the time, including an anecdote about Duke Ellington being refused a place to stay when he came to Binghamton to perform. He speaks about his experiences with the Ku Klux Klan and the Mafia in Binghamton. At the time of the interview, Payne was 89 years old and still running his trucking business. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Payne, Leo J. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 76A ; Recording 76B Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:47 minutes; 7:19 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/81335c7d2a6badfb36cf09bdaee27381.mp3 9a375623dc7d188412a6e0dfd130d28d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Brotzman, Leonard Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-05 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 79:58 minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55871">Interview with Leonard Brotzman</a> Subject LCSH Brotzman, Leonard -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers -- Interviews; Cornell University; Broome County Grange (N.Y.); Bee Keeping; Canals; Extension Service; Farm Bureau; Farm Machinery; Dairy Farms; Apple Farms; Tobacco Farms Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Leonard Brotzman Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 5 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood, interviewing Leonard Brotzman of Brotzman Hill Road in the Town of Chenango. The date is the fifth of January, 1978. Mr. Brotzman, why don’t we start out with the beginning and—ah—can you tell me something about what life was like on the farm when you were a little boy? Leonard: Well, when I came here it was all farms. You'd be amazed if you could see today the number of the farms there was o'er these hills— Grace Brotzman [Leonard’s wife]: On Front Street, too.  Leonard: —and— Grace: It was all farms on Front Street. Leonard: Oh, well, she don't want two or three of us talkin’ at once. See, she has to transcribe this, and if you talk it balls it up. Grace: Well, I'll keep my jaw straight. (Laughter). Wanda: No, no— Leonard: Well, if you want to say something—heh—hold up your finger, she says. (Laughter.) And in those days it was what we’d call “sustaining farming” now. The farmer's figures could be as near—live off from the farm as they could. So, because money was very scarce—ah—some farmers, especially the small dairies, didn't have enough for them to make a livin’ and so they kept chickens, and every farm that I can remember had an orchard, at least an orchard of apples, and the big crop, outside of hay and grain to support their livestock, was potatoes. Nearly everyone with any size farm raised from three to ten acres of potatoes. And they drew them in to Binghamton with horses—drew them mostly in the fall, because after it got cold, you couldn't take them in or they'd freeze, and the stores, they were mostly independent groceries. The chain stores hadn't come in as we know them today. The A&P was here, but they bought off the local farmers. It was before the days of trucks. And, also buckwheat was quite a crop. And o’er the hills they—I presume there was more farms was run by renters than they was by owners. And they'd raise some potatoes, some buckwheat, and a hog and some beans, and they'd have maybe a team and a cow or two. And they took—they took off. They didn't put anything back. Then the farm got so poor it wouldn’t support them, why, they’d move on and another one would try. That's why we've got so many abandoned farms. And the families were large, and the children would have to look for work elsewhere—and soon that—when we came here in 1906, Binghamton, the cigar factories was the big industry. And then the Endicott Johnson came, and they became gradually built up, and then when World War I came, why, they really expanded. Seems to me about 20,000 workers. And everyone rushed in there to work. Wanda: Do you remember much about the cigar industry? Leonard: No I don’t. I know before my time they used to raise tobacco around here. Down Front Street, on what's now the Quinn place and Ruth Wolfe's—they were tobacco farms. They were a high narrow barn and they had boards on them, hinged so they could open it for ventilation, and o'er on what's 369 then—I don't know who owns the place now—the last I knew, it was Dr. Allerton’s. Hull’s owned it years ago, and they said they grew a lot of tobacco. Wanda: Where the big stone barn is? Leonard: Yeah. Wanda: And the canal was right there,too, wasn't it? Right near by— Leonard: Yeah. And when I was a boy, quite a lot of old canallers left. We used to like to get them telling canal stories. In fact, Grace is a descendant of the canallers. Her grandparents were on the canal. Wanda: Well, maybe we can get her to talk about that? Leonard: She didn't hear you— Grace: I don’t know much about it. Wanda: Don’t remember your grandparents? Grace: All I know is it was the last end of the canallin’ when my grandfather was steerage and my grandmother was cook. Wanda: What were their names? Grace: What? Ah, Palmer. Wanda: Oh—yeah. Connected with the—the family there—the Thomas family. Weren't they relatives of the Thomas family down on Chenango Bridge Road? Grace: I don't know. Wanda: Well, that's— Grace: They might have been. Or, ah—unless she means the Palmers that used to live here, maybe. Wanda: No—ah—it's a—well, that's another story. But she was a cook on the canal? Grace: Yeah, my grandmother was. Wanda: And your grandfather? Grace: She was an Ackerman before she was married. Wanda: Do you remember any stories they told you about it? Grace: No. All I know is every time the Port Crane men and the Chenango Forks men met, they had a fight. Leonard: (Laughter.) Well, what—one question was, “What was the amusement?” That was amusement to the canallers. This isn’t being recorded, is it? Wanda: Oh yes. Leonard: Well, this Palmer that you speak of married John Thomas’s sister, was raised right here. He lived here when we come on the hill. That was Charley, and I understand they were distant relatives of Grace's folks. Grace: Well, my grandfather and their grandfather was cousins, I guess. Something like that. Wanda: Well, I wish some of those canallers were still around. Leonard: There was one, Dick Shaw. When they put the hard road in between the corners— Grace: They was hard people. I mean they were real fighters, some of them. Leonard: I guess all of 'em in the old days were. Grace: Tough, they’s tough. Leonard: Dick was an old canaller, and Stento put this piece of hard road in on Front Street, and Dick drove team for someone and he boarded with a Mrs. Webb—she kept three or four cows, and then he stayed there and done her chores until he died. And he used to tell us great stories about the canal. Wanda: I'm sorry he's gone, aren't you? Well, where were we then? Leonard: We'd got up to where people went to town to work. And that was one thing—that I think changed the face of farming. Well, when I was a boy, it was my father and brother and I at home, and except in haying and such things, we wasn't all needed. And when we was out of school and I worked at whatever I could find, I worked for other farmers. I worked in the ice-houses up to the 'Forks on the railroad. I worked on the road and I worked in the sawmills. And all of us boys done that. We worked at whatever we could get to do. And as the hill farms got poorer, why, it was a poorer living, and then people—they'd see that others in other occupations was making more money—had an easier time—so they drifted away to the cities. And then they has modern machinery come in. One man could do more, why, they begin to buy up the smaller farms. Maybe one man would get four or five of them and work them with the machinery, where it’d give employment to a lot of people before. And another thing that changed farming, I presume, there was as much land used to grow horse feed as there was to feed the people. Well, when the horses was gone, why, there was no market for oats and hay, and that was another thing that caused farming to change. And it gradually went into this trend for bigger farms on the better soils. Wanda: But you stuck right here, didn't you? Leonard: What? Wanda: You stuck right here? Leonard: Yeah. (Laughs.) In those days you took what come along. I dropped out of high school in my fourth year. I had eye trouble. I was going back. Wages got up to three dollars a day—what would I need of an education when I could make all that money like that? (Chuckles.) Wanda: Three dollars a day, oh my. Leonard: Well, I got a Grange scholarship to Cornell one winter for a short course, and when I came back, this farm, fellow that owned it died. His father was over on the “hill”—the State grabbed it and sold it at auction. And my father bid it off and took part of it and I bought the rest. Wanda: How many acres? Leonard: Well, at that time I think—think I had a hundred and nineteen. I’ve bought land since then—got more land, and I’ve sold it and I'm still stuck here. But I won’t be if I ever find a customer with any money. There’s no use having a farm you can’t work yourself, and the house is too big for us. We’d like to sell out here and get a small house and lot, kind of near civilization. Wanda: Well, how—how have your crops changed over the years? Have there been a lot of changes there, except for the things you've said? You—you've always been a dairy farmer? Leonard: Well, when I was at home, my people were market gardeners. They came from Pennsylvania with the idea of raising a truck for the Binghamton market. And they had to cut the cloth according to what they could. They bought here on the hills. Land was cheaper. And the trouble up here was, we was about a month later than they was down on the river. By the time our produce got on the market, why, the other price for early stuff was gone. And I remember when from Chenango Bridge— [Interruption while a neighbor comes to call.] Wanda: Can you remember where we left off? Leonard: No. Wanda: Doesn't matter. Well, I wonder if you could tell us something about the Grange? I know you’ve been connected with it for many years, haven't you? Leonard: Well, to get back to the beginning, the Grange—after the Civil War the farmers were in pretty bad shape, and the Commissioner of Agriculture sent a man by the name of Albert Kelly to the South to look the situation o'er. Well, he was a Mason. He got the idea that the farmers ought to have an organization like the Masons, so he went ahead and organized one. And the first Grange, Number One in the United States, was organized at Fredonia in 1868. I think it's still going, for everything I know of. And o’er the years there was a good many Granges been organized and disbanded, and then there will be others organized. I presume in Broome County, let’s see, I think the first Grange here was at Kirkwood in 1874. And I think Binghamton was organized a few years after that, and then that disbanded and reorganized in 1906. Well, the first I knew about the Granges, the big drawing card was that they got feed and groceries at a discount, and some places there were Grange stores. Well, then after GLF was organized, they kinda dropped the feed business and went out of the merchandise business. It was more a social organ. Wanda: Was it sort of a cooperative venture, you mean, when they had the stores? Leonard: As I understand it. Wanda: Well, there was quite a bit of social life combined with that, wasn't there? Leonard: Yes. It was really—I think—a poor man's organization. It always seemed to flourish best in—ah—Depression times. But it was a farmer's organization, and I think the big trouble with the farm—the Grange in Broome County—is there isn't many farmers left. And I don't know. Us old ones are, ah, passing on, and there's so many other things that the young people don't seem to be interested. One thing, the centralized schools have so much on and then people would rather stay at home and watch television than to go out. I understand that in the states where they're farther away from the big cities the Grange is doing better ‘n it is in the more populous areas. Although Binghamton Grange, I think, is doing good. Sanitaria Springs. A boy from Binghamton Grange—they have a contest, and and one of them was in music. I think he plays the piano, and he must’ve won—been the winner in Broome County and at the State contest, and he went to National Grange down in the Carolinas and won. I think his name is Bob Hall from Port Crane.  Wanda: Was this a scholarship thing, or—? Leonard: No. Not that. Wanda: Oh, just a contest. Leonard: Ayuh. I don't know, there’s a lot of prizes for the winners, what he got. And Missie—what'd Missie Acroni win that time? Do you remember, Grace? That was national, wasn’t it? Grace: Well, yes, sure it— Leonard: Her Afri—how d’you pronounce it? Something—African or something they knit? Grace: Ayuh. Leonard: And I think she got a thousand dollars and her Grange, she’s a member of Sherwood Valley, got five hundred and— Wanda: Do you mean “Afghan”? Leonard: Yeah. Wanda: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's pretty good. Leonard: Well, I’ve heard a lot say that the Grange was the greatest force for good next to the Church. Probably everybody wouldn't agree… Well, here’s something about farm machinery. Well, only the most prosperous farmers in those days—the bigger farmers might have a reaper and binder, and then there was what they called the drop reaper. It cut the grain and deposited it in a bundle on the ground, but couldn't tie it. But the small farmers used the old-fashioned cradle, and then we raked it up with a hand rake and tied it up in a bundle. And believe me, in those days there wasn't a spear of grain or hay wasted. They waste more today on the big farms than we used to have. And then the tractors begin to come in. About the first ones was the old Fordson. An’ I never see a thing I hated like them. You could crank your head off and still they wouldn’t start unless they felt like it. But they were used in those days mainly as a belt power. The tractors didn't really get out in the fields ’til they got them with rubber tires. An’ the way we sprayed, we were about the first ones around to spray an orchard. We had a force pump in a barrel with a rubber hose and a nozzle. One of us pumped and the other one sprayed. Wanda: Was that horse-powered? Leonard: It was man-powered. We drawed it with horses. And we’d spray the apples once or twice. Get nice apples. But now they spray continually, and— Wanda: That was on your father's farm, right? Leonard: Ayup. And there was some equipment here or orchard here when I got the farm. I sprayed that and I bought an orchard on the adjoining farm, but they're all pretty well gone. And we probably set a couple hundred new trees, and the deer killed every one of them. We raise them and then the State sells them to hunters. There was a neighbor, Mose Hatch, was raised in a log cabin. When I was a boy, he'd tell me how his father killed the last deer fifty years before that. Then in 1920 there was a pair up here—people come for miles to see them. Well, I wish that one that Old Man Hatch killed, it had been the last one. I think any farmer will—about, will agree with me on that. Wanda: They say there are more now than there ever were in this country. Leonard: Ayuh, and I think it's because there's so much abandoned land grew up to second growth. Up in the Adirondacks where they used to go to hunt, why, it’s all big timber, nothing for them to eat. And we stored the apples in the cellar, mostly in barrels and crates. You could keep bees. I never did. My brother was a great hand for bees. He didn't care any more about bees stinging him than a fly lighting on him. A mosquito buzzing'd drive him crazy. Wanda: Well, he probably had to have them for the apples, didn't he? Leonard: Well, yes—and we kept 'em. When he was a boy he'd worked where they kept hundreds of colonies. I always thought I'd like to keep bees, but they didn't like me. They say they'll sting anybody that's afraid of them, and they sure knew I was afraid of 'em. But—and that's another thing that's changed—in those days, we got white clover and buckwheat honey. Well, 'bout all you get now is a mixture, mostly of weeds. Back when there was all these cattle o'er these hills—ah—pastures were chewed right down an’ come in to white clover. And everyone raised buckwheat. But we'd plow 'er and put in to potatoes—they winter. I remember when I paid $4.50 school tax on this farm. This year it was o'er six hundred. But the teacher got—I remember six or seven dollars a week, an’ was glad to get a school at that.  Wanda: Where'd you go to school? Leonard: Well, there was a district school right at the foot of the hill. It’s a house now. Wanda: Oh, yes—I remember that—yes. Leonard: And then Chenango Forks was what they called the union school—it was three-year high school—and Grace and I both went there, and then she went to Greene for the last year and graduated. And I started at Whitney Point. But as they say, I “quituated” instead of graduating. Wanda: How'd you go to school? Did you have to board up there? Leonard: Well, I boarded in the winter and the rest of the time I walked to Chenango Forks—went up on the nine o'clock train. And then they came back on the—what they called the “freight and accommodation”—old freight train, a passenger car on it. And that came alone, down anytime it felt like it, sometimes eight or nine o'clock at night. And this was a mud road then, down Front Street and up the hill, and we didn't even have a flashlight in them days. And boy, I was late at home until I sure was a man. And then I got a Grange scholarship and went to Cornell one winter—only vacation I ever had. And that was the last year they gave scholarships. Then they started what they called the revolving scholarship fund. They established the fund and would lend it to the students. And I think they're still doing it. Well—the last complaint I heard was they'd only lend so many hundred to each student a year. And the way expenses went up, they had to look for more money.  Wanda: What did you study that—when you went to Cornell? What were your subjects then? Leonard: Well, we all, as I remember, we had to take a course in chemistry and soils, and one or two other basic things. And then I went in more for fruit growing and poultry raising, and took a course in forestry which was, I think, was the most interesting of any I took. And then I came home and bought this farm and this was more adapted to—in cattle than fruit growing. Wanda: So you—did you go into the poultry business too, or—? Leonard: Well, we used to keep a few hundred. But now it's all specialization. It's all poultry or all dairy, or something of the kind, and mainly because it's, probably one of the biggest things was, the farmers can't afford to hire help to compete with industry. 'Cause of minimum wage laws. So they, they've mechanized. One man produces as much as a lot did in the old days, doing it the way we used to. And about milk—there were all these small dairies. They had a half a dozen or more put together and buy a wagon and put a rack on it. Milk went to Binghamton. One man'd take it one day and one the next, and then they'd go it around again. We done that for years.  Wanda: You mean it was peddled in Binghamton that way? Leonard: No, we took it to the milk companies. Wanda: Oh—Crowley's— Leonard: We'd draw it from eight to ten dairies on one load. They were all small dairies. And then when they got trucks, why, they went to hiring a truckman to take it in. Today—the can—I don't know of a place that buys canned milk anymore. It's all bulk tanks. And that put a good many small farmers outta business, because on the backroads the bulk truck won't go in unless they produce enough milk to pay 'em for their trouble. There we used to—well, take our canned milk to the main road for them to pick it up. And I don't know whether there's anyone in Binghamton taking milk in for the Crowley’s—whether their bulk tanks empty in Binghamton or not. There's a bulk tank, goes up through here every morning—or I see it every day or two. I don't know as it's every day. Picks up Haskell's, and then it goes up to Bob Walker's, and farther up's George Perry's. I think his goes to the Lea [Dairy Lea] and Eddy Smith go to Crowley's. Now there's four dairies where there used to be twenty-five or thirty. Probably as many cows in the four as there was in all of 'em. Wanda: Well, do you think it's better or worse? Leonard: Well—(Laughs)—I kinda think I like the old way best, but I know that it wouldn't be very practical, the way conditions are today. Wanda: Especially for the wages, right? Leonard: But I will say that those small farmers, the ones that owned their farms, the government didn't have a mortgage on them for more'n they was worth. Some of my friends hear that remark, they'll grate their teeth. (Laughter.) We didn't have much in those days, but what we had was ours. One question in here about apple varieties—do we want to go into—? Wanda: Oh yes, I'd love to pick up that—do you remember? Leonard: On the place where I was born, they were—the fences were stone walls. There was apple trees all around it—I think the biggest apple trees I ever seen, and was as nice apples. We never heard of spraying. We—ah—gathered what we wanted, and the rest fell off and laid there. And some of the bigger orchards a little later, the buyers come in and buy them and hire a gang to pack 'em in barrels and send them somewhere, to cities. And then we got all kinds of insects and diseases, and they had to spray. Wanda: Do you remember some of the names of those old varieties that you can't find anymore? Leonard: Well, back in the old days, those old varieties were seedlings—came up themselves and happened to be a good apple, then somebody discovered them and went to propagating them. Today, most of the new varieties are a manmade variety. They cross two or three varieties with—ah—to get the kind of apple they want. O'er to Geneva, they have an orchard with a thousand varieties they use for show and in this business, creating new apples. The old-fashioned apples—I can remember the Yellow Transparent come first and the Red Astrakan, then there was Sweet and Sour Harvest—they're not too well known around here—and Tompkins County King. They were an awful good apple. I don't know where they let 'em slip, but nobody has 'em. One time the Baldwin, there was more of them raised than anything else. And the Northern Spy for years was a main apple. Then there was the Rhode Island and the Northwestern Greenings—they were more cooking apples—and the Roxbury Russet, that used to keep 'til the next summer. And I don't know of where there's hardly a tree or any of them anymore, except the Northern Spy, and they're used more for processing. And we had the Pound Sweet and the Talman Sweet and the Rambo and the Hubbardson Nonesuch. Lord Nelson, the Spitzenburg, Jonathan, Grime's Golden. I think quite a lot of those varieties came from England and Europe. Wanda: The names sound that way. Leonard: And they, ah—the apple, I understand, is a native of the Near East. They were brought to this country. But today—why, the statistics show Red Delicious—there's more of them raised. But in the stores everybody wants McIntosh. They know the name—and I— Wanda: That's about the only two names you hear anymore. Leonard: And I've seen a lot of things sold for McIntosh that didn't even faintly resemble 'em. I was reading the other day, a list of apples that they've developed o'er to Geneva. Some of them I don't know and never seen. But one of the first ones they developed was the Cortland. That's a cross between the—ah—I think the McIntosh an’ the Ben Davis. Cortland's a wonderful apple. An’ the Ben Davis—(Laughter)—oh boy. I'd as soon eat a chip any day. (Chuckles.) But at one time when I was a boy they set out a lot of them. That was the days before refrigeration, and they would keep to send across the ocean. Wanda: (Laughs.) I can imagine so. Leonard: They was too poor to rot! Wanda: Did you ever cook them, Mrs.—ah—Brotzman? Grace: What—the Ben Davis? Yeah, I cooked 'em. Wanda: How did you do it? Grace: I think we—I think we've even baked them, didn't we, Leonard? Leonard: Seems though. Wanda: That's the only way I've ever heard that you could get 'em soft, was to bake them. Leonard: We used to use them when we was short of other apples. Grace: My mother—sometimes the frost would get the other apples and we had just the Ben Davis. We used 'em. There isn't a Ben Davis tree left, is there? Leonard: Why, up on that Hatch orchard there's one that had a few left—last year. And we had a white apple. And the Stood orchard was set for Spitzenburg, but they turned out to be this white apple with the red cheek—I think they called 'em the Belmont—and we sold hundreds of bushels of those. Today, you couldn't get people to look at 'em. But fruit is somethin’ that's particular about the ground. This place is quite clay-ey, and apples don't do good in that. And also the west wind hits in here. I never had too much luck with cane berries. I think because the wind's so cold. Across the road where it's sheltered and in shale soil, fruit done wonders and we raised acres of berries. We used to pick berries—be five or six of us every day, and my brother drawed them to Binghamton with the horses. Wanda: How did he sell them? House to house? Leonard: No. mostly to stores. We never did do too much retail business—took too much time. But we did used to have customers in the fall of the year. They'd put in potatoes an’ apples an’ onions an’ everything like that. They'd last all winter. Where if you'd unload a whole load, why, it paid. But our—most of our customers would be what was called independent grocers. We'd supplied them wholesale an’ then they'd retail 'em. And then—I think the first chain store in Binghamton, the American store came in Washington Street. Potatoes, I know, was $1.75 an’ they brought 'em in on trucks from somewhere. They'd evidently bought 'em cheaper—dollar and a quarter. And that pretty well ended growing the many potatoes around here. Why, in the old days they used to car 'em. Load aft—carload after carload. Chenango Bridge. Whitney Point. You remember Mart Foote? Wanda: Oh—I do. Leonard: Why, Mart was a buyer for some company—potatoes and apples. Wanda: Is that right? Leonard: He used to go out in the lake country and buy a whole orchard of apples an’ hire men to pick 'em and car them.  Wanda: Well— Leonard: I guess that about runs out of questions here. Wanda: Well, we've got a little time left. Leonard: Well—asking about the Grange—and the Farm Bureau—that was organized here in 1911. The first one in the United States—the Chamber of Commerce and the Delaware-Lackawanna, and I forgot what else sponsored it. Wanda: The Farm Bureau, you mean? Leonard: Well, what was Farm Bureau then's the Extension Service now. It was the Farm Bureau for a good many years. John Baron was the first agent. He had Broome County, part of Susquehanna, and he had a horse and buggy. And then it was Ed Minns—he’d been a professor at Cornell, and they did get him a car. He'd bought a place down to Nimmonsburg—I think Carl St. John owned it later. And Baron—he went on. He was a professor at Cornell later, and then there was—Eastman—I think an Eastman. I've known every one of the Farm Bureau men. I was a committeeman for about fifty years. We used to go out and solicit people to join. I think the dues at first were a dollar, and then they worked up—seems to me to five—and then they dropped back to three. And one thing we discovered—the people that could’ve benefited from it most was the ones it was the hardest to get to join. And I think that the Farm Bureau was—well, they brought what—the new things to the farmers. And the better farmers today are the ones that went along with them. And the others are—huh—like the buffalo and the passenger pigeon. Wanda: (Laughs). That's a good comparison. Leonard: And then they got the bright idea of calling that the Extension Service and organizing the Farm Bureau, because it was being supported by public money and there'd be bills come up that they wanted to work for, and they couldn't do that as long as they was supported by public money. So—they called that part of it “Extension Service” and then they organized the Farm Bureau, which could not receive any public money. Although they work for different things. I've always been with the Extension. I belonged to the Farm Bureau for a few years, but when I sold the dairy I dropped out. Wanda: So you have no dairy now? Leonard: Well, I've got one cow and four or five heavy young cattle. The neighbor's got beef cattle here and does the haying. Wanda: Well—that's good. Leonard: I was going to send the old cow to the auction on a Monday, but she freshened on Friday. She wasn't in very good shape to send to the auction, so I've still got her. I tied the calf 'side of her and told him to go to it, but he's lazy—he makes me help. Wanda: Well, you're lucky to have a—one cow, even. Leonard: Well—one cow ties you down as tight as that whole barnful. Wanda: Does it? Leonard: And that's really why I was getting rid of her, too, but—if I can't be here to milk her—Grace’s got past it, and where do you get someone to milk her? Wanda: Well—if you didn't gad so much, you wouldn't have to worry about those problems. Leonard: It ain’t the gadding that worries me, it's trips to the hospital. Wanda: Well, I want to thank you. Have you got anything else you want to put on here? Leonard: No. I've probably put on too much now. Wanda: How about it, Mrs. Brotzman? Grace: I haven't got anything. Wanda: Well, I guess we're kinda talked out, aren’t we? But I do thank you, and I thank you for your hospitality. It's been a pleasure. Leonard: Well, it's been a pleasure to talk with you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leonard Brotzman Subject The topic of the resource Brotzman, Leonard -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers -- Interviews; Cornell University; Broome County Grange (N.Y.); Bee Keeping; Canals; Extension Service; Farm Bureau; Farm Machinery; Dairy Farms; Apple Farms; Tobacco Farms Description An account of the resource Leonard Brotzman talks about sustenance farming through the years of his life, as well as, his ideas on farming practices and the sale and transportation of produce. He also discusses the canals and the Broome County Grange, his education, scholarships and experiences at Cornell University. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 7 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Brotzman, Leonard ; Brotzman, Grace ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-05 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 79:58 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6e6f33bdc43f2cbab131a77825d92ce9.mp3 f84ed1b58756b452d14a5699d7b33ff9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:14 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56033">Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart</a> Subject LCSH Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Interview by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 26 April 1978 Dan: Well Slam, would you give me the—your life and working experiences starting with your date and place of birth? Slam: Well I was born, ah, born and raised in ah, Englewood, New Jersey, quite a few years ago—that goes back to 1914, and of course I, coming up, I went through at least got through High School and ah as far as ah my musical career, I may as well start out by saying that ah who, when I was about ah six years old seven years old, I started out playing the little violin—squeak box—and ah it lasted for a while until I ah got into my first year in High School and ah somehow I didn't care for too much for the little violin—I became interested in the ah big fiddle—the bull fiddle, which they happened to have in the school—in the music room at school and somehow I got around to the point of trying, trying this bass fiddle out and I had to have one of the ah violinists in the orchestra to show me how to even tune it—I didn't even have the ah, didn't have the ah knowledge of the big one so that's the way I started playing my ah bass fiddle—that's what started me ah in my bass fiddle car—well my career, you might say, playing music. After I got out of the High School I went to Boston Conservatory of Music—this was around 1934 and ah studied for a year or two in Boston. At the same time, I was getting quite a bit of experience playing to a couple of nightclubs in and around Boston and that was the beginning of ah, you might say ah my musical happenings. Of course while I was ah playing and working at music around Boston—I wouldn’t say that I wasn't, I hadn't really become a professional at that time until I ah left Boston a few years after I started up there and ah came back close to home around New York City, where I, I made my rounds ah getting into everything I could get into musically, that is ah jam sessions uptown and Harlem and what have you and ah I ah started working on ah 52nd Street. Of course before then—that came a little later 52nd Street—before then, I teamed up with ah a young man ah we ah called ourselves ah this other fella’s name was Slim, Slim Gaillard that is and of course I teamed up with Slim and ah we were trying to get a professional name for me—he'd already more or less had been a professional—so we were trying to get a name for me and ah that’s how I came upon the name of "Slam" ah playing with ah doin our act together "Slim and Slam" for me and so that was really the beginning of my ah professional ah career in, in music—playing the bass fiddle and during this time I, I had developed a style of playing the bass ah in a way that ah no other bass player really in the jazz field had played it. Matter of fact I, I studied ah a technique of humming my hot jazz solos and humming along with ah what I played an octave higher than what I was playing to make this ah, you might say, a unique ah jazz style of playing the bass and it became quite popular. So I kept that in and I’M still, still trying to do it today and enhance upon it of course. I'm always trying to learn something new and ah like I said that was the beginning of my professional career in ah music. After I was with Slim, Slim and I lasted about oh maybe two or three years—something like that. Then ah our team broke up because he had to go into the Army and ah— Dan: This was around the first World War: 1919, 1918? Slam: That's right—no not quite that far back. Dan: No let’s see, that would be 2nd World War. Slam: The second one, yeah. Dan: This goes back to ’41. Slam: ’41 - right. Dan: OK. Slam: Of course Slim and I, we collaborated upon the, a huge, a great big, big hit record which was ah called, everybody I know everybody will remember it, "Flat Foot Floogie (with a Floy Floy)." Dan: Ah that was a big hit. Slam: That was our, our big hit. Dan: Uh huh, in other words did you compose that yourself? Slam: Well Slim and I collaborated upon this, this ah number. Dan: The lyrics and the words? Slam: Yes that's right. Dan: Is that right—that was a big number—I can remember that myself. Slam: That was really it for us. Mrs. Stewart: They buried it in the time capsule at the World's Fair. Dan: Is that right? Slam: Buried in the time capsule—the World's Fair ah 1939. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Yes, in New York so anyway after I broke up with ah—we broke up and I went my way. I ah, I played with ah a couple of groups—that's when I started ah more or less working on the famous ah 52nd Street ah I ah before I went on the street that is, I joined, ah, Art Tatum—the great blind pianist. I joined Art Tatum out in California and ah, we, ah, did quite a few things out on the coast and worked our way back to ah to New York City, that is 52nd Street where I played with ah Art Tatum—this on ah at a place called the “Three Deuces” and that was really ah the beginning of a wonderful career. I ah played there with Art Tatum until, ah, see, ah, Art Tatum became ah, ill one night—he couldn't make our sessions, ah, so I tried to make ends meet by ah—I had heard of a wonderful ah pianist down the street at another club and ah his name was Earl, Earl Garner. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah I had been down to this club listening to Earl once in a while, he was workin’ about the same time on the Street—that's what we called 52nd Street, the street you know. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah somehow, ah, I got an idea—this place the “Three Deuces” where, where I was working ah—it was left upon me really. The manager of the place asked me to see what I could do to replace ah Art Tatum—he couldn't make it and thought for a minute, why didn't I run down the Street and see Earl Garner and see if he can kind of help us out—so that's what I did and ah he ah, his boss, Earl's boss, he was working a place called the Torondelaose an his boss—I asked his boss and Earl, could Earl help me out to play a couple of sets or so with me in the “Three Deuces” while Art couldn't, couldn’t make it and it, it was so nice of his boss to let Earl do this, ah, Earl with—here's what happened—Earl would play his couple of sets in his place and run down to my place the “Three Deuces,” our place and fill in and took Art, Art Tatum's place with what we call eventually my trio and we had on guitar John Collins at the time and so that happened for ah ah few nights. Art wasn't still able to make it. As a matter of fact ah we found out that Art was becoming very seriously ill so he had to go back to California so that ah left it up to me to keep things going at the “Three Deuces” which eventually ah Earl Garner’s boss let him join me ah permanently, you know—it was awfully nice of him to ah to have him to do that, you know—so Earl became a permanent, ah, member of ah my trio. Dan: And you called yourself what? Slam: The "Slam Stewart Trio." Dan: "Slam Stewart Trio." Mrs. Stewart: And you took him into the Strand Theater too. Slam: Yes and I ah I eventually we ah got ah hold of a drummer when made it a "Slam Stewart Quartet" and which my wife just said that ah we went, we played the ah quite a few theaters up and down the east coast especially the ah Strand Theater in New York City and that lasted for quite a while on and off ah let’s see around ’46. Mrs. Stewart: ’45. Slam: ’45 I got an offer from Benny Goodman, who was working down the street not too far from the ah “Three Deuces” on 6th Avenue at the ah theater which was, which was called ah “Seven Lively Arts” I believe it was and ah it was sort of a show that Benny and his sextet was doing at the theater. So I got a call from Benny if he asked me would I play the show with him, which I do it, which I did and ah it wasn't too hard on me because ah the show ah started at 9 o'clock, I think it went from 9 until approximately 10 to 10:30 and at the same time I went and did this show with ah Benny, Benny Goodman and at the same time I had to rush back to the “Three Deuces” to fulfill that ah gig there, you know—so that was the first time I had experience with ah Benny Goodman. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And during that time of course, Earl Garner left me and ah went his way with his own group and ah I stayed with Benny Goodman and that lasted for a year or so. Mrs. Stewart: Two years. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: You forgot to tell him that in the early ’40s you made a lot of movies. Slam: Oh yes I— Mrs. Stewart: You did a Broadway show too. Slam: I did a Broadway show with ah ah Lady Day, Billie Holliday and I also did I think another one—Broadway show, I forget the name of it but anyway I was— Dan: Was this when you were with Earl Garner? Slam: Ah— Dan: Or was this "Slam Stewart Trio"? Slam: Slam Stewart, ah, Trio. Dan: Yes, with Earl Garner. Slam: No, no I was in and out ah in other words it could have been when I was with Goodman. Dan: Yeah. Slam: But ah the one show that I did at the Strand Theater, I had Earl Garner with me then. Dan: I see. Slam: At that time but ah, ah when I went with ah Goodman I, that isn't all that I did, you know, I would ah do a little other things outside of playing ah ah Benny—I was recording, in fact I recorded quite a bit. Dan: Umhm. Slam: During the ’40s, I recorded on just about with everybody you can think of and I must have made ah, which included Benny Goodman Sextet, Lionel Hampton, Dizzy Gillespie—you name them, I— Dan: (laughter) Slam: I made so many recordings I must have made during the ’40s at least up to 200 or more 250 or more sides with ah different groups. Dan: Uh huh—any gold records in there? Slam: Any ah gold records? Mrs. Stewart: Most of it was classics. Slam: Ah most of them—not ah that one the for that I did with Slim—that was a gold record. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: “Flat Foot Floogie.” Dan: Yeah. Slam: And ah let’s see what others—I made so many recordings that I can't remember them. Dan: Uh huh—sure. Slam: You know it is kind of hard. Dan: Where have you been in your travels, Slam? Slam: Well I have, ah, I've been quite a few places in the world. I've been to Europe, ah, I've been to Australia—I've never been to Japan or China, but ah, most, ah, many places in Europe. Dan: Umhm. Slam: And I’ve been to ah not South America—what's the place—the island? Mrs. Stewart: Puerto Rico. Slam: Puerto Rico. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: Hawaii. Slam: Hawaii—that’s right. Dan: Now is this with a group, Slam? Slam: Well ah, ah, I ah, I joined a group on, ah, most of the places. Dan: I see, I see. Slam: You know. Dan: In other words you were a soloist and then you joined a group at each place that you went. Slam: That's right, yes. Mrs. Stewart: He's appeared about 20 times just since we've been in Binghamton. Slam: Oh sure, yes. Mrs. Stewart: And taking your own groups too. Slam: Yeah, well the years have passed and ah, oh, I've been through quite a, quite a few things. Say, for instance, I’ve ah, been with, ah, Benny Goodman again, my second time around with him, and— Dan: Were you with Duke Ellington at any time? Slam: No, I've never been with him—I've sat in with him. Dan: Cab Calloway? Slam: Ah no, I've never—the only large band that I've had experience with is, ah, Benny Goodman's large band. Dan: Yeah. Slam: Which I recorded with, mostly. Dan: Right. Slam: But ah most of my experience with Benny Goodman ever was just with the, ah, small group. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Sextet. Mrs. Stewart: One of the movies you made was with Cab. Slam: Yeah I made one movie with ah which Cab was in. Mrs. Stewart: Fats Waller. Slam: With Fats Waller. Mrs. Stewart: You played the sax in that one. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: But Cab's Band was in the movie—he made more than one movie though—this sounds like he made one—he made a lot of additional—still running too—see them on television. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: This one we’re talking about, ah, was called “Stormy Weather.” Dan: Umhm. Mrs. Stewart: Hellzapoppin’—you were in that. Slam: Hellzapoppin’—I was in that. “Oh Boy What a Girl.” Mrs. Stewart: “Red, White and Blue.” Slam: What have you—oh geez. Dan: Where were these movies made, were they made down in New York? Slam: No, in Hollywood. Dan: Hollywood, uh huh. Slam: A long time has passed. Dan: Well you’re still active, aren't you Slam? Slam: Yes I am, ah, fairly active—not as much as I used to be of course. I have, ah, played with ah symphonies, say for instance with the, ah, Indianapolis Symphony, the Binghamton Symphony of course and Toronto Symphony and I played with the Lincoln String Quartet, ah. Mrs. Stewart: Harpsichordist. Slam: Harpsichordist. Mrs. Stewart: Classical music. Slam: Classical, yes. Dan: Now when did you come to Binghamton, Slam? Slam: I came to Binghamton about 10 years ago. Dan: 10 years ago. Slam: Yeah. Dan: And for what reason? Slam: Well on account of the young lady whom I'm married to. Dan: Well that's about as good a reason as I can think of. (laughter) Slam: Yes indeed and I find it has been my most happy experience in life. Has been wonderful and very good to me all the way around. Dan: Yeah, well it's the—your life has been very rewarding—there’s a lot of memories and everything but you're on the go all the time. Slam: Well yes like I say not as much as I used to I— Dan: Not now but I mean in your prime you were pretty busy. Slam: Oh yes, I had been very busy, which I didn't mind at all you know. Dan: No, no, when you're younger why you can take it. Slam: That's for sure. Mrs. Stewart: Ah Marge Hinman was surprised—remember when you did the historic architecture—this house is in it. Dan: This house is in it? Mrs. Stewart: In the Broome County ah Historical Societies Architecture. Dan : Oh it is. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah and she said she was so shocked when she found out that Slam and I owned it. Dan: Oh is that right. There’s another gentleman, I’m going to Friday to Windsor, another gentleman, his name is English and his house is in the—that same book. Mrs. Stewart: Umhm. Dan: That house was built in 1823 and it also served as an underground railroad station. Slam: Oh yes. Mrs. Stewart: This is 1870. Dan: 1870, uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: And it's all ours. Dan: That’s wonderful. Slam: It's all ours. Dan: Well that’s great, that's great. So anyway you went to High School and you went to the Boston Conservatory of Music. Slam: That's right. Dan: And that’s where you took up the bass viol and, ah, specialized and from there on expanded. Slam: Ah. Dan: Have you been in England? Slam: I've been in England, yes. Dan: Have you played before the Queen of England? Slam: No I— Mrs. Stewart: Played at Royal Albert Hall though. Slam: Royal Albert Hall there and she may have been there during one of our performances there. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Oh I’ve been quite a few places, ah, Italy and Spain, Germany, Finland. Mrs. Stewart: Sweden. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Now is this a tour that you took yourself Slam? Slam: No I— Dan: A tour or was that mapped out for you? Slam: It was mapped out for us—in fact I was with Goodman on quite a few of them. Dan: I see. Slam: Ah tours when I played. I've been to France quite a few times on my own, ah I've done, ah, quite a bit of recording there in France, in fact I was, ah, part, I played part of, ah, background music for a picture or two that were made in, ah, France. Dan: I see—now have you done any more composing at all? Slam: Well not, ah really, no I haven't—I'm thinking very seriously about, ah, taking it a little more easier than I'm doing now and just do some ah some more composing—the Wife and I. Dan: Yeah. Slam: You know I think— Mrs. Stewart: He has a published book though… Slam: I have a book on, ah, bass. Dan: Oh, you have published a book on bass? Slam: The Technique on Bass. Dan: Is that right—when was that published? Slam: Oh that was published back in the ’40s. Dan: 1940s, yeah. Are you a musician too, Mrs. Stewart? Mrs. Stewart: Yes. Slam: Yes she is. Dan: That's wonderful. Slam: Plays a wonderful, ah, piano. Dan: Well that's great—you've got a lot in common. Slam: We've done quite a few things together. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Schools and what have you—in this area too. Mrs. Stewart: I play as little as I can get away with, Dan. Dan: (laughter) Mrs. Stewart: I think maybe if you read his biography in Who’s Who—it might help you. Who's Who in America—I have it right here. Dan: Ah he's been in Who's Who in America? Mrs. Stewart: He is in it and now he's in the next edition—they just sent me a copy of it. Slam: Well yes. Dan: It must make you very proud, Slam. Slam: Oh thank you. Dan: Honest to God it's remarkable. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's played major countries all over the world. Dan: Blessed to have a community like this to have such famous men. Slam: Ah it's wonderful. Mrs. Stewart: He goes out and plays and he's been every country all over the world he's played and he'll come home and I’ll say “How”—you know there's nothing out there—it’s all here. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Were you in service at all, Slam? Slam: No I didn’t make the, ah, service. Dan: Uh huh—well you kept yourself busy, though. Slam: Yes. Dan: Now do you belong to any organizations or anything like that? Slam: Well yes, ah, at the time, I belonged to the Sertoma organization here and outside of that ah— Mrs. Stewart: You’re a member of Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church. Slam: Yes. Dan: Oh you are—Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church? Slam: Yes. Dan: Is that here in Binghamton? Slam: In Endicott. Dan: Oh, it's in Endicott. Slam: Yes. Dan: Yeah—one of our girls belongs to that same church. Slam: Uh yeah. Dan: Yeah—well is there anything else you would like to tell me, Slam, before I turn off this machine? Mrs. Stewart: He has two fellowships—he has one from Newing here and one from— Dan: I think he's being very shy about his accomplishments. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah I always had— Dan: Now he's got these fellowships from where? Mrs. Stewart: He has from Newing College here at the University and he has one from the Yale University. Dan: Yale? Mrs. Stewart: Yeah, we just came back from Yale—he goes back all the time. We've just gotten back last Saturday in fact another beautiful session. He’s very involved in Yale University. Dan: Uh huh, well that's great. Mrs. Stewart: I saw him last week performing with the students and it was— Dan: I suppose you get quite a few requests from the students over at the University to perform. Slam: Oh yes, I have. Mrs. Stewart: You know it's funny—the young students decided themselves, with no help, that they wanted to play their Prom this year. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And he's going to Charleston to play this Filado Festival and that was the same date and about 3 days after they decided they could, I got a call from our University saying their students had decided the same thing. Yeah. Dan: Well you can’t be two places at the same time. Slam: That's right. Mrs. Stewart: No he couldn't be at either one of them, which was sad, because he would have liked to have done this, you know—but he was really thrilled that the kids came up with the idea themselves. Dan: Well I certainly appreciate this interview, Slam. Slam: Oh that's all right. I wish I could remember some more things. Dan: Well with all the places you've been, it's remarkable that you remember what you did. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's probably been to Europe twenty times. Slam: Oh sure. Mrs. Stewart: Closest he's been to Binghamton to Europe. Dan: Twenty times just since he's been here—that's in the last 10 years. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah. Dan: And that's not counting the number of times he's been to Europe. Mrs. Stewart: Before. Dan: Before. Mrs. Stewart: Since he began going in the ’40s. Slam: That's right, sure. Dan: Well that's great. Well I’ll ah turn this off and play it back for you if you like, Slam. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Subject The topic of the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Description An account of the resource Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart, born in Englewood, NJ, describes his young life and education. He studied the  bass violin in high school and after graduation attended the <a href="https://www.bostonconservatory.edu/">Boston Conservatory of Music</a>. He details his professional career, teaming up with <a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301254/">Slim Gaillard</a>, <a href="http://www.npr.org/programs/jazzprofiles/archive/tatum.html">Art Tatum</a>, and later Earl Garner to become "the Slam Stewart Trio." He went on to join the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Goodman">Benny Goodman Sextet</a>, traveling all over the world, developing a distinct style of playing and eventually publishing a book, The Techniques of Bass. He speaks about his big-hit composition "Flat Foot Floogie," which received a gold record and was buried in a time capsule at the World's Fair in New York in 1939. He also describes his numerous recordings and his work in film. He mentions his fellowships with SUNY Binghamton and <a href="http://www.yale.edu%20">Yale University.</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 58 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:14 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/05f31d951592db4ccf6479f943284720.mp3 793cde0fa5cbd7d3ad3d8a6526055461 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cole, Louie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-07-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:28 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55892">Interview with Louie Cole</a> Subject LCSH Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Louie Cole Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 25 July 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Louie Cole, Beers Road, Castle Creek in the Town of Chenango, and the date is the 25th of July, 1978. Mr. Cole, will you tell us where you were born and what year? [Pause] OK. [Pause]. Where were you born? [Pause]. OK. Louie: Well, I was born in Chenango Forks on June 12th, 1889. (Chuckles). Wanda: That's—ah, eighty... [89 years]. Louie: My—ah…father and mother, they'd…had built the house the year before, and had moved down from the farm on the hill. Wanda: So you were born right in Chenango Forks? Louie: Well…the first farm coming west out of the Forks, it was, it was really right in the village, or on the edge of the village, you know. Ummm—and my father had another farm a mile west of that—ah, where they had moved from, down there. Wanda: Well, where did you go to school? Louie: At, ah, Chenango Forks. They had a union school there, Chenango Forks Union School. The—the fire station is right where the school used to be. It was a—a four room school…up to the eleventh grade. If you wanted to high-school-graduate the last year, you have to go somewheres else. Some people, ah, I know—ah, a few went to Whitney's Point…to graduate. My brother, ah, went to Binghamton, and I guess the people from Castle Creek area here, some of 'em went to Binghamton and some of ‘em went to Whitney Point for that last year, ya know. Wanda: So you were a farmer until when? Louie: Well, I was a farmer until I was elected Highway Superintendent for—well, I guess I was elected in the election of 1928 and took office in January 1st, 1929. Wanda: Well you've seen quite a few changes, then, haven't you? Louie: (Chuckles). Oh yeah. Yeah. I couldn't begin to…name ‘em. Wanda: Well, one thing that's changed for sure is the equipment for that department, isn't it? Louie: Oh yes. Yeah. As far as equipment is concerned, ah…what we had and what we, what they have now—we didn't have anything then. (Laughs). Wanda: Hand tools, eh? Louie: We had two—we had two old Dodge trucks and one…K.R. Brockway, and they were, they both were old and were all, well, three of them were old and worn out, really. I finally…after…a few years, got, began to get some new equipment or new trucks that we could work with, ya know. And—ah, drivers not only like to take care of a new truck and use it good, where when it got old, they… It couldn't get old fast enough then. Get rid of it. Wanda: But you probably always had—ah, somebody to maintain them, didn't you? Did you do it yourself? Louie: Do with what? Wanda: Did you maintain the trucks yourself? Louie: Well, mostly, mostly. Yeah, we did, we did all that we could do with them, but the, but the grinding of the valves and if they'd have to have new rings or something like that. Of course now they never change rings in a—in a motor, but—ah, back then that was the proper thing to do after...so many years. And—ah, we didn't have the equipment to do that. Wanda: You had a, a town garage, did you...to work out of? Louie: Well, we had a town barn. Wanda: Umhmm. Where was that? Louie: Well, right...where it's located now. Wanda: In Castle Creek, huh? Louie: The town garage is, yeah. Yeah, there was...it was an old barn with a plank floor...and…and the cracks in the floor. It was colder'n as if it had been outdoors, ya know. (Laughter). Wanda: You probably didn't have any coffee machines either, did you? Louie: (Chuckles). No, that's for sure, or instant coffee, we didn't have either... hoo! Wanda: Well when you started out you had—what, how many men did you have for a crew? Louie: How many men? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: Well there was about...in the...about four regular men that we had all the while. That is...but they only worked when they—ah, when there was work. That is they wasn't—ah, in the summertime they would work right along regular, but in the wintertime, when it come fall, why, then they wasn't any work… Wanda: Until the snow came, eh? Louie: ...until, until we got—ah—some snow equipment, removal equipment, ya know. And the, ah… Wanda: You were telling me you had an old Caterpillar snow plow—way back in those times. Louie: (Chuckles). Yeah, we got, we got a, a Caterpillar tractor with a snow plow on the front with a wing on each side—all hydraulic. That was, that was s'posed to be the...latest thing goin' then. We, we was pretty proud of it. As I said, it was all hydraulic and we, we...in the summertime we used the tractor to, to haul the grader and the hoe, so we could…we'd disconnect the—ah, hydraulic system and then back the tractor right out and we could use it anywheres. That's what we was doin' one spring, 'n’ I know we had it all ready to come out, and I don't know why, but...Roy Cole was a little anxious or somethin' and he poked his head around the, the door to look just as the operator started the motor and the hydraulic oil come out and hit him right square in the face and—(Laughter). Ayuh. Wanda: A good story. You had some, some men that stayed with you, probably the— Louie: All the way through. Wanda: —many years. All the way through! Louie: All the way through. Yeah. There was...there was Roy Cole, no relation, and Nelson Ross and—ah, Earl Jones…and then there's some other men that came on in the spring of the year, ya know, and worked during the summer and, and—ah, worked right straight through during the summer. And there was Howard Strickland and—ah, Les Fuller. Wanda: Umhmm. 'Course you had a lot of mowing to do in the summer, probably, didn't ya? Louie: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did most of the...roadside mowing we did...well, I used to hire a farmer to mow what he could with his mowing machine, along the roads, you know, and then we'd come along and finish it up to the fenceline or the bank. Wanda: With scythes? Louie: With scythes, yeah. Yeah, and of course in the spring of, of the year, to begin with, we, we cleaned the ditches. We pulled all the stone and the mud and the dirt into the center of the road and—(Laughs)—then we spread it out and waited for it to dry and then we, we had a regular drag—a farmer's heavy-duty drag, spring tooth drag. We went over and broke those sods and stones ‘n’ things up, ya know, ‘n’ then we had more men working for a while in the spring. And after we done that, why, they raked the stone out to the side of the road. And then we, we'd come along with our trucks and they'd shovel those stone into the road—into, into the truck. Well years before, well, you'd see places along the road where they'd just pulled off from the road and dumped those stone right off of the side of the road, or they'd... they'd—ah, maybe some farmer wanted some in his barnyard or something like that. And—ah, well, that was all right to give them to him if he...only I thought, “My gosh, why not drive them, draw them a little farther and put them right in the road where they'd do some good altogether, instead of dumping them on the side of the road?” So that's—ah, what we did, we didn't dump any more on the side of the road after that. Wanda: You filled in the soft places, you mean, and like that? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. There was lots of… Wanda: That makes sense, doesn't it? Louie: …places where they would—'course we had to sometimes draw 'em quite a little ways, but—ah, they helped out, and the next year when it got spring, you know, and soft and bad… Wanda: Then you, did you have a steamroller or any kind of roller? Louie: Yes, we had a...we didn't use it, only on those—ah, 320A roads that we used to build. Wanda: Oh, what were they? Louie: Well, they were paid by the...we built 'em for the county. Each town, as a rule, built a mile of road, or if they could they built more, built, say, two miles or something like that, each summer. Well that, that gave more people more work, and of course it helped out the, the towns. It built a better road for the towns. We—what we did—we, we opened up the road and spread the dirt out each way, then we filled it in with field stone... We broke those field stone up, broke 'em up by hand. And—ah, then we—ah, we drew, the dirt that we scraped out of the center we generally used for the shoulder or so on, on each side. And then, we put... We'd draw some finer gravel on top of those field stone, you know, and roll 'em down good. And then we, we—ah, put a layer of crushed...ah, sometimes we had—ah, we had a crusher, too, that we crushed some of those stones for the top and—ah, we'd put those on, 'n’ then put on a coat of oil, and another, another coat of finer stone 'n’ had three, three—ah, three courses of stone on a...they were built, if the base was good—the, the big stone on the bottom—they, they made a good road. They lasted good. They, the asphalt held 'em together, tar, whatever they called it then. Wanda: There's probably still some of those stretches of road around, aren't there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Wanda: So that's how a road is built. Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: And that was funded by the state? Louie: That, that was... they were mostly, mostly built by hand—(chuckles)—you might say. Wanda: The money came from the state and the county? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. They paid the town for the equipment that—ah, we used, and they also paid the labor. Wanda: Well I'd say they got a pretty good bargain, wouldn't you? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. It was a good...it was a good deal for the, for the towns, and it was a good deal for the county and state, too, as far as that goes. Wanda: But it's no longer that way now, is it? We have our own—a separate highway department. Louie: Oh, I think that went out in the—in '33 or ’34. We had started the Brooks road up here. We'd graded it and got about...on that road we was, for base we was usin' a gravel instead of the field stone because there, there wasn't field stone left enough around that we could get, ya know. And I think we were about...we had the base about half done on the Brooks road, when the county come along and took over themselves. And since then...well, since then there's been a, let's see—ah… Yeah, since then there's been a state project, the—ah, that was similar, was similar to the 320A project, and I still, I think they still have it now. That, that's called the Donovan Act or something like that. That... the—ah, towns can work that way, but it's—ah, the requirements are, are so much higher and they have to have—well, they have to have pretty good equipment 'n’...and, and you're under state supervision and—they are, I think, I think now the state pays the whole shot. The county, I don't think, enters into it. Wanda: Yeah. But it's all taxpayer's money, isn't it? Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: Well, let's see—ah—you were telling me about some of these men that stayed with you so long and—ah— Louie: Oh yes, there was— Wanda: —I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me about any of 'em. Louie: Pardon? Wanda: I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me—any things that you remember about working with a crew like that? You must have worked well together to stay that long together. Louie: Well I don't know any, remember any specific... occasions or actions, particularly...more of 'em. They was these men that stayed with me so long. Well there's Roy Cole and Nelson Ross, 'n’ Earl Jones, 'n’ Clarence Shearer, Howard Strickland, Les Fuller 'n’ Lester Brooks 'n’... Seems as though there's another one that I...shouldn't forget. They were all, all good workers and would work regardless of whether I was there or whether I wasn't. Wanda: You said something about the wages being 35 to 40 cents an hour way back then? Louie: Ayuh. They was, they were 35 cents an hour and, and—ah, after a year or two we got it up to 40 cents. And then the Depression of '33 or '32 and '33 or something like that—ah, there was a delegation of farmers came to the town board and complained about their payin' so much to the labor, they couldn't hire anybody on the...to work on their farms. Wanda: To do the hayin', eh? Louie: We—ah, ah, we didn't lower the wages. Wanda: Ah, you told me about working with a...not with a chain gang, not for a chain gang, but with a chain gang, remember? Louie: Oh. Oh. Wanda: That was before you were— Louie: I don't know… This was a state project and...somethin' and they—ah, they brought a bunch of Negro convicts up from…somewheres in the South, and worked on the road, the old—whatcha call it? The old dug road between Chenango Forks and, and—ah, well, Itasca or Whitney Point—on that road. It run up along the Tioughnioga River. Wanda: It was dug right out of the side of the mountain, eh? Louie: They—ah, I worked there with a team of horses with a dump truck. They had a steam shovel and they'd load the…and they had some, they had a couple of trucks. The, they’d load the trucks and my wagon, and we'd drive out where they wanted the dirt and we'd dump it and the Negroes would—ah, would level it off, or maybe'd push it over the bank or widen it out or something and—ah, it was—ah... I don't remember where they, where they housed those Negroes at night. I, I don't seem to remember that. I don't know whether they had—a, a tent compound or not. I… Wanda: Probably wasn't the best of quarters, anyway. Louie: They—ah, I know the shovel operator, when he was swinging around with the bucket and he didn't pay any attention to whether there was a Negro in the way or not, he just kept right on goin', but I didn't see any Negro that got hit or anything, but— Wanda: That's a terrible thing. Louie: —it wasn't his fault that he didn't hit some of 'em. Yeah, that was, that was years before I was Superintendent. Wanda: Yeah. You were—just a real young man then, huh? Louie: Yeah. And I needed a little money and a little squanderin', spendin' money, and my father let me have the horses. Wanda: So you went back to the farm. Louie: Yeah. Wanda: You've always, always kept a farm, have you, so that— Louie: No, no, after I was, after I was elected I kept it one year 'n rented it, and then I traded it off for property in Castle Creek. And we lived, we lived there in Castle Creek until, until ’47. I bought this property here in...I don't know, ’44 or '45 or something like that, with the idea of building, ya know. In '47 we came down 'n’...and built it. Built the new house in…we built the new house in ’49 and we've been here…well... We haven't had, the wife and I only had one son. We had three children and only one survived. Wanda: You were telling me that you went to school in Chenango Forks? Louie: Yeah, I went to school at Chenango Forks. Wanda: What was the old school like? Louie: It was a, it was a union school. I don't…they don't have 'em anymore, I guess. They don't because they're all consolidated, but they...it was four rooms. They went from, went up to the eleventh grade, and if you wanted to graduate from high school you had to go to...some other school. Some went to Whitney's Point, some to Binghamton. My brother, I know, went to Binghamton. Wanda: Well, you didn't—ah, have any special education that helped you out in this job as Highway Superintendent, did you? You just… Louie: No. No. No. There was no, there was no, no school, only hard work and… Wanda: Common sense, eh? Louie: —and a little head work along with it, ayuh. No, it was, ah, I don't know of a superintendent that ever—ah, back then, anyway, that ever had any special construction knowledge. Wanda: Yeah, but you had to know a lot about engines and machinery 'n’... Louie: Well—ah, you say a lot. Yes...you had to have a lot of common sense 'n’ a little good judgement along with it. Wanda: And good health, I would think, too. Long hard hours, right? Louie: Ayuh. Long hard hours. Wanda: You remember any special problems you had from storms? From snowstorms or washouts and rain and all that? Louie: Well...just—ah—I don't remember any...real special washouts or anything. I know one year we had a terrible—it'd been hot a long time like it has this year, ya know? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: And I expected maybe we'd get a hard thundershower—gully-washers, as they call 'em—that washed, filled the ditches 'n’ washed the roads and filled the sluices, ya know. And, but that was just one of those things, it wasn't anything special. We had one one year, and in just about a week and ten days afterward, we'd just got cleaned up 'n’ we had the same thing right over again. That was a little bit discouraging. Wanda: Ohhh. Then snow, you've probably had some, some snowstorms to get through, haven't you? Louie: Oh yes, we always had snow, once in a while. I can remember one winter that—ah, I think it was '55 or '54, we were workin' over on Poplar Hill Road over there, cuttin' brush, widening it out and, and along in February, and you could work all day long without your jacket on, even. It was that...warm enough so if you were workin' a little you didn't get cold. Wanda: You were tellin' me how you, when you first, or way back after you were Superintendent of Highways, you shoveled the roads out by hand and in layers or something? Louie: Oh yes. See, where they…might be in a...a cut, or even in a...right in the open, where they'd drifted so deep that we'd have to shovel a layer off of the top and throw it over and then some men would stay up on top and the men down below would throw it up to them and they would throw it out. That was...that was back-breakin'...work. Wanda: And you had a, a shovel. You said something about having a shovel that was made of, ah— Louie: Yeah. It was a, there was a state project, ah—ah, “Get the Farmers Out of the Mud” was the, um… Wanda: That was the actual slogan? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was the, that was the slogan. So we, we had been, of course, putting gravel in the road where we, when we could and where we could, but we had to shovel it on by hand and, and dump it and work it over again by hand and, and I convinced the Board that we could...do more if we didn't have to do so much of it by hand—if we had a, a power shovel, and we got one. It had a, ah...all it was, was a farm tractor on caterpillar treads and the—ah—circle that let it swing had a boom and a, and a bucket and cables and shivs and—ah, it was a 3/4 yard—no, no, a 1/4 yard bucket. Yeah. And we could load the trucks even, even with that, with…three times as quick as you could by shoveling it on by hand, you know. And…we got, we drew a lot of gravel that fall after that. I remember we started it right in that little, that little creek down on Front Street—ah, that comes down off of the Dorman Road and goes up in the hills there off from… Wanda: Oh yes, Cooley's Falls Road? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Cooley's Falls Road, you mean? Yeah, Dorman Road. Louie: Dorman Road. Yeah. It comes down...years ago it used to be called the McKinney Hill Road. Yeah, Dorman Road. Wanda: And you dug the gravel out of there? Louie: Ayuh. Right down where the state highway is now. Ayeah. Wanda: You never had to buy gravel, did you? Louie: No. No. Not then. It wasn't...not many years before you had to. Wanda: Yeah. Do you remember what Castle Creek was like when you first came over here? Has it changed very much? Louie: Just about like it is now, only... only there was a good, good grocery store there then. They, what's the, what the fire station is now, was the school house. That was open at that time when we came over here 'n’ I think my boy went to school there the first...first year he went to school. Wanda: 'Course there weren't so many gas stations around. I thought—that was one of the first gas stations, wasn't it, on Route 11, up there at Castle Creek school—or store? Louie: Well there was two gas stations. There was one at, where the store is and there was one just down this way a little ways. And then there was another one…up above…well up above where the state...garage is now. Wanda: Oh yes. Right in the woods there, right? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Right along in the woods there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Terrell. Terrells run it. And they'd—ah, Mrs. Terrell was an awful nice lady and, and a good cook, and she had a little restaurant there too, at one time. Wanda: Well, gas stations were kinda friendly places in those days, weren't they? Louie: Yeah. Wanda: My dad had a country store with a gas station, at one time. Well, can you think of anything else you want to put on here? I hope you aren't getting tired. Louie: Oh, probably after you're gone! (Laughter). Wanda: Well if you...think of anything you want to add, you could call me up and we'll do it again. Louie: OK. (Laughs). Wanda: I want to thank you very much, Mr. Cole. You've been patient and good. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louie Cole Subject The topic of the resource Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Description An account of the resource Louie Cole talks about working on his father's farm in Chenango Forks, attending the Union School, his election to Highway Superintendent for the Town of Chenango, the practices and equipment used during that time, as well as the people he worked with, roads built and various advents of the time, such as 'Get the Farmers Out of the Mud' project and the first power shovel. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 15 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cole, Louie ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:28 Minutes