7 10 75 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f96dd7fa17305c122d51c5736a4f517c.mp3 6c435750b2c14a4c6c6584b33ff00adb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gruss, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-01-30 Subject LCSH Gruss, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.) Willis Sharpe Kilmer; Swamp Root Medicine Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 12:35 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56071">Interview with Michael Gruss</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael Gruss Interviewed by: Anna Caganek, Dan O'Neil, Joe Newcomb, Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 30 January 1978 Dan: Okay. Uh, when will this be, uh…? Joe: Oh, it’ll be, uh…it’ll be a little while. We’ll let you all know when it’s gonna be out; it’ll probably be a couple’a weeks. Dan: Couple’a weeks? Joe: Couple weeks we get to…permission. That, We’ll have a couple more to talk with, eh…some other people [unintelligible] Michael: And then you’re all through with that. Joe: Yeah, we’re all done for now. Michael: Yeah. Joe: Yeah. Dan: [chuckles] Nettie: That was really interesting, Mr. Gruss. Michael: Now, I thought maybe you’d want a picture there taken of that shrine in the back. Joe: Uh, what’s that? Michael: Huh? Joe: Shrine? Michael: You go toe - go through the- Dan: Y-y-you can show - yeah. You can show him the, the, the shrine; it’s right through the back door there. Michael: Wait, you go right, straight through - you look through that window there. Nettie: Through that window. [Cut to a bit later] Michael: In the town, Vixen. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: And that [unintelligible] was desperately, you know, against anything like that. Because yeah, he was one… [Background noise interruption] Dan: Huh, huh, go ahead. Yeah, it’s on now. Yeah. Yeah… Joe: Yeah, we’ll be going back to the, uh… Annie: Thank you very much. Joe: Back to the office. Annie: I appreciated hearing this story so - Endicott Johnson, especially. History. Michael: How did you like that in the back? That shrine? Annie: That’s part of your handiwork, huh? Joe: That’s very nice. Very nice. Annie: It’s a powerful tree. Michael: You know, I thought maybe if one wanted a picture of that sometime, they could go down and take ‘em. Joe: Yeah, okay. We- [Unintelligible mix of voices] Dan: Have you, eh…have you got any more of these here I could give to Joe? One to Joe? Joe: What’s that? Dan: This is a, this is a pin of the s-Johnson City Arch. Joe: Oh, yeah. Yeah, you got any of those? Nettie: We all got pins, but we all got one, yes. Dan: Yeah. Joe: Oh, did you? Good. Nettie: So you have to have one, too. Michael: There’s you. Dan: That would be for a man. Nettie: For a man, you gotta have the rum. Michael: And, and you just got the one head over, the other head [unintelligible]- Nettie: The rum, Mr. Gruss. Michael: You have to have one of those. [clears throat] Dan: Nah, that’s just- Nettie: This one here. [Unintelligible mix of voices] Michael: No, the, the other [unintelligible]. Mm-hm. Nettie: Oh, yeah. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Yeah. Michael: You got one? Nettie: Yeah, I have a small one. Yeah, I have a small one. Michael: That’s all I get out of 22 pounds. Dan: Yeah [laughing]. Michael: No, I see it. Eh, eh, I’d have to get it for, for every room. Well, anyway…they cost - you see that…it cost, er, the shoes and [unintelligible]- Joe: We don’t know if they can touch. Dan: Brass, isn’t it? Michael: Huh? Dan: Brass, isn’t it? Michael: No. Dan: Brass, probably. Michael: No, it was bronze. Dan: Bronze? Joe: Oh, yeah. Dan: I imagine you could take- [Unintelligible mix of voices] Michael: And I have to get from every room - for all the ages - how many male, how many female. Go to each room, and I put it in an envelope, and put mark that down there, and that’s - put on my suggestion: 10 cents a piece. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And that, that’s what it cost, ebeh, when I, eh, had to mail. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And that’s, everybody got ‘em because everybody was 100 back then for, eh, you know…E. J. Well, you know what they did years ago. My job was, eh - during the wintertime, they - every week there’d be two cargos of oranges or fruit. And, and we had four rows in, eh, Florida, you know. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: E. J.’s. Dan: Yeah. Michael: Yeah, so we, eh…I was down there. Well, Patterson. He used to be the market master. And, eh, they sent two cargos here: One for Endicott, one for Binghamton. Joe: Right. Michael: So they sold the tops. Joe: Right. Michael: 50 cents a pack for your oranges. Three if it was all, all right there on the tree. Because if it was on every car, there had to be two men. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: See, when your left floor - they’re in Florida, when they loaded, they had to put ice in there. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: But, when you got to the cold country, you had to dump the ice. And, uh, light these kerosene lamps to decide - so they wouldn’t freeze. Joe: Do you remember anything about the Kilmer, eh…Swamp Root factory? Michael: The what? Dan: Kilmer Swamp Root? Do you remember anything about the Kilmer Swamp Root? Michael: Oh, yeah. Willis Sharpe Kilmer? Dan: Yeah. Michael: Oh, yes! I knew him good. Dan: Hm, did you? Michael: Everybody said he was a mean - he had that, um…place there, eh…bought up [Route] 17…uh…Sky Lake. Joe: Mm-hm. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: Yes. See, my son was doing some floor work up in there, and I had to have some more tile. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And there come up - drove up in there. And Willis was up in there. And, eh…he said, “You got any business here?” I said, “I sure have.” Said, “I’m bringing some tile up here for my son.” He said, “Who?” I said, “John.” He says, “Is that your son?” I said, “Yes.” “Ooooh!” He grabbed, he said, “Let’s goin’ up in there.” He helped me to carry it there. He had four buildings here and two lakes. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: He said, “Gee.” He says, “I’m glad to meet you. I got every - take ‘em.” He says, “Anytime you wanna come in here, come.” And he said, “The place is yours.” Dan: Uh-huh. Michael: Yeah, he was awful, awful nice. Dan: George, George Ely was his Treasurer. Michael: Huh? Dan: George Ely was his Treasurer. Michael: Yeah. Well… Dan: As I understand it, there was- Michael: I think there was a, eh…wh-where, uh, there’s whatcha call there…? That Slovak cemetery. That whole place, all the way up to the top - that’s where his barns were for his horses. Joe: Did he have a race track there? Michael: Yes - big race track. Dan: That was on Riverside Dr., though? Michael: Riverside Dr. Dan: Yeah. Michael: There was no Riverside Dr. at that time because that was all fenced in up ‘till that hill there. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And there was all barns up in there. You take for instance, eh, the horses. [clears throat] You can see today, they’re all in bronze. Was you ever up to the Kilmer Ceme-Cemetery? Dan: Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s, uh, LaFrance Cemetery on Morgan Rd. Michael: Where? Dan: LaFrance Cemetery on Morgan Rd. Michael: Right. Yeah. Dan: They’ve got a monument to Exterminator. Michael: Exterminator. And the other one there is, eh… Dan: Sun Briar. Michael: Sun Briar. Dan: And, yeah. Michael: That was the fastest horse. That, that, the horse brought him money. Dan: Exterminator won the Derby. Michael: Yeah. Dan: That was a last-minute switch. Michael: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Michael: He was, he was, you’ll see, you’ll see there’s other animals in there: Dogs, and cats, and everything. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Michael: Am I right? There’s monuments all around there. Dan: [clears throat] He’s got one big plot. Michael: Yeah. Dan: There, it’s very well-kept. Michael: Yep. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: You know, uh…everyone said he was a mean guy, and this and that. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: Well, I didn’t find him that way. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: What other association did you have with him? Michael: Wi’im? Joe: Yeah. Michael: Not - no kind of a personal association at all. Joe: I see, I just wanted to- Michael: It was just that way. Joe: Yeah. Michael: Meet him that way, and I always found him very, very good. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: Because you see, uh, here, when he died? Everybody was, yelled that there were out, said this and that. They told me, they said, “Well, why don’t you put your name in there? You’ll get something, anyway.” I said, “No, I don’t want anything.” Nettie: [laughs] Michael: “Don’t want anything that don’t belong to me.” But I’ll tell you, as far I was concerned? I thought Willis Sharpe Kilmer was a very good man. Dan: Yeah. Joe: Now, did he found the company or was it his father? Michael: Huh? Joe: Did he found the company or was it his father? Michael: Well, I’ll tell you the truth about it. He had a brother. And his brother, ah, eh, made that swamp root medicine. Dan: Right. Michael: Am I right? Dan: Right. Michael: I mean, he stole the patent. Dan: That’s right. That’s, that’s where he- Joe: Who, who did, now? Michael: Willis. Dan: Wi-Wi-Willis and his father- Michael: [chuckles] Dan: -stole the patent from [chuckles] the uncle. Michael: Am I right? Dan: Right. Joe: Well, wa-was it his father or was it Willis? Michael: It’s his brother. Joe: Yeah. But, who stole the patent? Michael: Willis stole it from his brother. Joe: I see, alright. Okay. Dan & Nettie: [chuckles] Michael: You see, they had to, whatcha call it…? Had it, eh…you know, to have, eh, have patents made, it’s quite tricky. Nettie: Right. Joe: Yeah. Now, who’s - who was Dr. Kilmer? The one they used in the advertising? They called it, “Dr. Kilmer.” Now, that was- Michael: That was Willis Sharpe. Annie: Thank you. Joe: Oh, was that Willis? Dan: Yeah, the thing- Annie: -we can talk to you then. Dan: Okay. Annie: Thank you very much for letting us- Michael: Yeah, it was nice here. Annie: Thank you. Michael: Yeah. Good talking to you. Annie: We’ll talk to you soon. Joe: Thank you. Annie: Bye, nice to meet you. Joe: We’ll let you know if there’s good - we’ll let you know if this is going to be on so you can watch yourself. [Shared laughter] Annie: We’ll tell you when. Okay? Michael: Well, that’s, that’s the whole story. [Unintelligible voices] Dan: I, I, uh, I’ve got, uh, I’ve got that on another tape. Uh, uh, about the, uh… Joe: Do you? Of Kilmer? Dan: Kilmer, yeah. Joe: Oh, okay. Dan: Stealin’ that, stealin’ that- Joe: Alright. Dan: -eh, patent. But, eh, as I understand, of course, in those days- Michael: You didn’t know it was a swamp root, did you? Dan: Eh, yeah, yes, I knew it was not a swamp root. But, eh, in those days, advertising was such that it was, eh, eh, it was, it was shady. In other words, somebody would send me on, and would advertise a yard of soap for 10 cents. Michael: Yeah. Dan: So you’d send in your 10 cents and they’d send you a, a yard of soap thread. Michael: Well… Joe: Yeah, it was- Michael: The thing is, know you take places like the First Ward. That’s where everybody came here to do their shopping. Everybody from whole [sic] Binghamton. Dan: Mm-hm. Michael: ‘Cause they had the stuff they needed. And you take for instance Dr. Mary Ross…she was 100%, she was, uh, as I said before, on maternity cases. Joe: Yeah. Dan: Mm-hm. Joe: Well, I think we- Michael: And I couldn’t turn anybody down. I couldn’t, you know? People were poor. There was a lot of poor ones who, they- Dan: [clears throat] Michael: But, I still say what they love - what we need over here…we need a good shopping center and a good drug store. We have no drug store. Dan: No. Joe: You keep plugging that. Michael: Huh? Joe: You- [Tape cuts to sometime later] Dan: This concludes a televised interview with Mr. Michael Gruss of 10 Phelps St., Binghamton, New York. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Gruss Subject The topic of the resource Gruss, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.) Description An account of the resource Michael Gruss speaks about Willis Sharpe Kilmer, his horses and the Swamp Root Medicine he produced. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 68 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/c4e1b2f45a3538a0a3df2c8127d6b867.mp3 cfb3d3213cf049b88dfaa6613f77705d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Harendza, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna ; O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-12-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 48:03 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55941">Interview with Michael Harendza</a> Subject LCSH Harendza, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Musicians -- Interviews; Organists; Slovak Americans Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael L. Harendza Interviewed by: Anna Caganek and Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 15 December 1977 Anna: This is Anna Caganek: the interviewer. I am talking to Professor Michael L. Harendza. 69 Colfax Ave, Binghamton, New York. The date is December 15, 1977. Uh, Professor? Tell me about your life and experiences in the community. Professor Harendza: Well, my mother brought me here from, ehm, Austria. It’s now Czechoslovakia. The name of the town that I was born in was, uh…Storcin [Stojčín]. S-T-O-R-C-I-N. Storcin. It’s in the northwestern part of Czechoslovakia, in the small Carpathian Mountains. My father died—he traveled extensively, he came to America about four times. He traveled to South America. And, uh, he came back home, and my mother got pregnant again. And I popped out. [chuckles] I was born on June 29, 1901. My father died, so we buried him. And we stayed there. I had an older sister: Rose Harendza. She came to America—I don’t know how, I don’t know what year, around 1904 I think—and she married John Kukol and they had twelve children, they kept on coming. Then we came, and I shall never forget, I was very happy on that boat. Mother said we naturally got bad steerage, they couldn't afford to get us a better class ticket and—but I got acquainted with the Captain and the attendants on the boat. They let me run around, and I always had a feeling then that I had a good voice. I would sing Hungarian folk songs and Slovak folk songs. And I would get a lot of loose change—I brought home that and I gave it to my mother. They also gave me a lot of fruit, which Mother appreciated very much, because being down in that steerage, as a matter of fact she was sick all the while. It took us two weeks to cross from Hamburg, we went on this boat [for] two weeks. We arrived in Ellis Island sometime in the early part of November, and we had to go through all the various requirements—shots and medicine, everything else. And then good physical procedure to see that you were alright, and so they let me pass. Mother was sick all the while. And then they took the address and put a tag on my mother, and a tag on me: Binghamton, New York. [laughs] And they brought us down here, and the train arrived at about 5 o’clock in the morning, and my brother-in-law John Kukol met us there, and we couldn't get a taxi or anything, so we had to trudge all the way from the old station down to the other folks there. We stayed around—our first Christmas and first Thanksgiving was that year here, as far as I know now—not too much, rather hazy, because I was just past five years old—and I did things a boy would do. [chuckles] Anna: My bad habit— Michael: As I said, when I got to the school, then they—in January I went to the Jarvis Street School, there is an office building now. I went there and I’ll never forget Miss Perkins, the first grade, I went, and, ah, Miss Stone—a saintly woman, a wonderful woman, she did an awful lot for the Slovak people of this neighborhood and Slovaks in general. I got in a little jam one time, my mother had to come down to prove something. Well it wasn’t so, I just tried to get away from being punished after school, and she brought an interpreter with her—I never thought Mother would be that fussy—and so Miss Perkins and I and my mother and Helen Takac and Miss Stone. I lost a pair of shoes, and she knew—they cost a lot of money, these shoes—and she knew the other children going to school without shoes—I didn’t see why I shouldn’t go, they were clumsy on me anyway. So I used to take them off and then hop to the corner house on Grace and Jarvis—remember, Anna, where Connie lives now? There were some people there, a place where I could put my shoes during school, and you know I got away with it for quite a while, but when I—one time, when I came from school for my shoes, they weren't there, somebody stole them. And so naturally Miss Stone and they wanted to know everything, in the school, and Mother wanted to know too, because two or three dollars was an awful lot of money to her—she had to work in Dunn McCarthy almost a week for it, for it. Of course I tried to earn some a little bit later, sold papers and things to help out every possible way. She went along and somehow—I took—found out they didn't steal my shoes, because my, I put my shoes in there, and—they did steal them, but it was really my fault for leaving my shoes there. And also after I got the whole interview through, she came from Miss Stone. [Imitating his mother] “Please, give me stick.” You know, like a little pussy willow. Wooo! I got a good royal licking. She said, “Michael”—in Slovak, she said to me, “I'm not punishing you for the shoes—they’re lost, they’re lost—but the shame that you gave me, that I had to come here to this good woman and show my son was a liar.” I shall never forget that, and when she went and left Miss Stone took me upstairs to her office. “Michael,” she says, “you have a very, very wonderful mother.” Imagine it, five years—fingers stay on my head all the while. She said, “I don’t have to worry about you because you will make your way in the world all right.” I shall never forget, they were always so nice to me, everybody. And I went through—when I got to the 5th grade, St. Cyril School was built and they opened up in 19—it was built in 1910, but they couldn't get any Slovak Sisters to teach there, so they rented out to St. Patrick’s, and they used it for high school for girls there for about two years, and then in 1912 got four Sisters from Danville, Sisters of St. Cyril & Method. And from there I went to the 5th grade—6th, 7th, 8th grade I put in there, and everything went very nicely. And in the summer I would get a job somewhere else—remember Deyo Farms? I would go there picking cherries and strawberries, and weeding, you know, earn a little extra money, because naturally, poor Mom couldn't go alone and do everything. She gave me everything, l never had to be ashamed about my dress or anything. Imagine—I was the only one that used to wear shoes, and that’s why the shoe subject was such an important thing. And l went to St. Cyril’s School, and l stayed there until l graduated in 1916, from the 8th grade. Then l went down to St. Patrick’s, the high school there, and did my regular work. l took care of the paper route in the summer, in summer the Press, and in the morning I would get up early enough to go and pick up the Herald—remember the old paper? I’d be around the corner there, so—and we got along pretty good. My brother was a very fine [inaudible], like on the wall, like on the— Anna: Plastic— Michael: Plastic. And he was very good to us, especially to mother, and I know l got my first shoes from him, and he was good to me. We stayed up to my sister’s—she was very nice too—I roomed with my brother, and she had her own. And then he had to go to Albany, they had a big hotel or something. ‘Cause he was flying to meet—he took me to hear Paderewski in the old high school. Anna: What? Michael: Paderewski—the pianist, Ignacy Jan Paderewski, the world’s greatest pianist. And that was my first contact with coaching. They took me over to the State Armory over there, John McCormick sang—an enormous amount of people came, they got across to that old State Armory, where the Forum is now, that old big State Armory. l was just as big a rascal as anybody, let me tell you that l was no angel but l didn’t know better things, and then l went to high school, and l went for two years, after that Mother got very sick. After that l got work in Dunn McCarthy's as office boy, taking the cripples around the room and and later on got 15 dollars a week, then got 20 dollars a week, which could carry us on very nicely, and l worked there and kept on singing. Then we had a little money and l asked mother if I could go and study voice, I had a lot, l had two years of piano with Katherine O’Brian—you remember her—she used to give piano lessons by the Post Office. Bill Danek and a few others took piano lessons, l had two years of piano, and when I was working and had a little money I went to see Cecil Masten. Cecil was an awful good teacher, he was a very fine baritone and he used to do a lot of State work. He was on the corner of Main St. and Crestmont Rd., and it went along pretty good and, but my brother again went out and we didn't have too much of an income, and she got sick so I had to quit school. I was already 17, and I would sing in different choirs every time I got a chance to get in some hotel or something, I would get 4 or 5 dollars Saturday & Friday but we, I didn't know other things, so I continued my piano and after a while—St. Joseph Rangers were still here, and Miss Katherine Vinceyas, she was the organist. She had to have an operation on her appendix and she had to be out quite a while, so Father Scripo called Father Casmir, said, “Michael, you can play while she is out. Take over the job while she is out.” And that would give me 25 dollars a month, but that was pin money for me because I had my regular job. I went on and on, and after a while I was playing there on one second Easter, I was playing. And then they tore down the old church and built another one, and it wasn't painted or anything, and they had a mobile organ there, I was singing there and then Father Martincek—remember him? He left, and the Franciscan Fathers came to Father Cyril and Father Florian Billy, and I sang once in a while, but I sang in a little church which was Lithuanian, made a little money there, so I did this and Easter 8 o’clock mass, I played and sang in Lithuanian. I was very active in Languages, I sang, Father Scripo came from the altar, so Father Cyril was going to have the next mass, each had one mass because a lot of people in St. Cyril, Glenwood Ave., our Parish extended to Stella Ireland Road. He said to Father Cyril, “Who is that boy? He has a good voice, plays nice too but very good.” I went home and he shot right up to my house, which was right up the hill, and wanted to know why I didn't go to St. Cyril’s. I said, “Well, Father, they pay me and every penny counts, cost money, I like to study and it costs money, voice lessons and piano lessons. Father send Father Billy to ask me to take the job, then I said, “I know what, I’ll play for three months during the summer, I'll play and be an organist when school starts, 30 dollars a week.” The organist said he will pay the most, 75 dollars a month, 5 dollars for funerals, 3 dollars for weddings and 1 dollar Requiem mass—getting 75 dollars, that would bring the total to 150 dollars a month. All summer long I played, then when school started, I said to Father, “I got my old job in the factory, I was sample operator in the office, I was my own boss, I had to do them, nobody else could do them but me. That’s when I was making 35 to 40 dollars a week then,” I told them. “$75 a month,” Father Florian said. “How about it, Mike?” he said, “We will give you the job,” and on New Year’s Day $75 a week, 75 dollars. All the while I got active in the chamber of the concert staff, singing of concerts Dan: You said you studied under Cycil Masten, but you also heard Ignacy Paderewsky? Michael: Paderewsky, yeah. And also John McCormick, and also Anna Pavlova, and also the New York Philharmonic, Dr. Walter conducting. I took them all in, I took them water as favors, and I saw one thing, I would have to advance my education if I will get anywhere, and also keep on studying with Cecil Masten. I would take a lesson, once in a while, then Dr. Harold M. Neiber, organist in Christ Episcopal Church years ago—well anyway, he was the organist there, so I studied first organ with him, then I studied piano. Then he got a good job in New York, in a cathedral. I went to—Francis— [pause] He lived on, Saint, St. Mary’s Church—after 30 years I can’t think of his name. He lived on—what’s that street, on the corner of Main, where that church, that St. Mary’s church is? Dan: Fayette. Michael: Fayette. On the third house down. He had two daughters that were teachers. Dan: It wouldn’t be O’Brian, would it? Michael: No, no. I know Mr. O’Brian. Dan: He had two daughters. Michael: Yeah. Well he taught piano and his daughters [inaudible]. Well I went and studied with him, piano. I had two years with Dr. Harold Neiber, and then I had four years with—mmmmm—Francis? Frank? He was a very famous man in the ward. Right in your territory. [laughs] Dan: Right in my territory and I can’t remember it. It was probably before my time. Michael: No, that was about 1927. Dan: I was pretty young then. Michael: Francis, Francis. Dan: I remember Casey. Michael: Casey, he was an organist at St. Mary's Church, and he took Francis’s place, then he played in Endicott in St. Andrew’s, and Mr. Johnson paid for it. Well anyway I studied with him. And then— Mrs. Harendza: Mr. O’Connor. Michael: Francis O'Connor. [laughs] Thank you, Mama, very much. You best see him, you probably know more about it than I do. Then summer came along, I told Father Cyril, “I am going, Father. I am going to be an organist.” Sacred Heart in Manhattan. I’d spent four years and five summers—all summer courses—I came twice for my examination to get my certification, my license. And we got along very nice, [inaudible], I specialized in that. We got along fine, I was able to do a lot of nice things, we organized a nice choir at St. Cyril’s. We had, ah—I can show you all kinds of pictures, where are they? I continued working. I joined the American Field of Organists, and I was 16 in 1933 to 1936, we put on several concerts. We also, on Civic Music, over for the Board at the Chamber of Commerce. [inaudible] So we all worked together. There were very nice women there, and so I went. [inaudible] And ever since then I have been very active, even to this day [inaudible] and I tell Helen, I said, “Helen, I'm not working and I’m not doing anything or teaching.” I said, “They gave me my bread and butter, and they made me the man that I am, and I got a good reputation.” I think you know that. Dan: I do. Michael: I don’t have to tell them. I always admire the Opera—the Tri-Opera Chorus and Symphony, the Ballet at Roberson I love, and also all the cultural things, I like them, they seem to do things for me. I went there for three summers, I got my supervisor thing down for three years, twice each, time down in St. Cyril’s, then I am going up in June ‘til the end of August. I took my examination and I got my first certificate, which was for teaching from 1st to the 5th grade, and I earned the 2nd year certificate, from 6th to 9th grade. That’s as far as I am going, because I didn't go to high school much. Dan: Where did you get these Certificates from? Michael: Pius X school in Manhattanville and Pius X . ‘Course we know these colleges, they know these schools, and this was connected with Manhattanville College in New York. This was Catholic, down all from Rome, and later on could earn [inaudible]. That was, I kept on working right along. Gave concerts, gave numerous concerts. I was active. [inaudible] And now that I am 76 years old I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, but I still, as you can see how my hands are, but I still, every Sunday at 7:30 I play the mass—by the altar I got a little Conn organ—and I sing with the people. The old Slovak hymns. And they sing and I love it. Dan: Where is this? Michael: St. Cyril’s, even now. Then Monday and Tuesday we have Novena's, and I play the 12 o’clock mass, and then we have the Novena's for Blessed Virgin Mary. Tuesday I play the 12 o’clock mass and Novena to St. Anthony. That’s the amount of work I do now, but before— Mrs. Harendza: You play the funerals, too. Michael: Huh? Mrs. Harendza: You play the funerals. Michael: [inaudible] Can you think of anything else? Anna: What do you think of the changes in the church? That’s what I wanted to ask you. Michael: The changes…well, I’ve been brought up on the very, very strict rules. If I dared and played the songs that we are singing now, I'd be excommunicated, but now it’s perfectly all right. What they want, the Church wants them to participate, [inaudible]. In some churches the Priest goes up and down, and that way they all do a little bit of it, but I got a good strong voice. [inaudible] I don’t agree to a lot of things on that score, because I am a Gregorian chant man all the way, and to me there's no music more beautiful than Gregorian chant. And these hymns—some of these Hymns are very beautiful, and I enjoy playing them, and these people never heard of—they’re practically all taken from the Methodist Hymnal, and all through the Presbyterian Hymnal and the Lutheran Hymnal. [inaudible] Dan: At what age did you come over, did you immigrate, Professor? What age? Michael: 5 years old. June 29th 1901, and 1907 we came. Dan: And now do you carry the ethnic customs in everyday life that you brought over from the native land? Michael: Yes, I think so. The younger generation, they don’t—there is no question of that—but where the family is…and they think of their past heritage, what they had in Europe…you can’t take that out of them. Dan: No. Michael: Any more than we could take the Irish out of you. Dan: That’s right, that’s right. Michael: And we feel the same way. And that is the reason that I’m playing there yet. You can’t get anybody that can sing and play the Slovak languages at the same time. Dan: Right, right. Michael: That’s about the only reason. I love my work very, very much. Dan: Well, I’m glad that you are keeping active. Anna: You still go to the old customs of Christmas and everything? Michael: Yes, [inaudible]. And my daughter, she teaches in MacArthur School, and she graduated from Marywood. Her Bachelor’s Degree, and her Masters Degree was from Ithaca College. She teaches 7th and 8th grade in MacArthur School, and Michael, my son, he is studying in Catholic University. Here is his picture when he was in the Navy—pianist for the Navy, and accompanist, and also a concertmaster. So he's got his B.A. in—the, ah, Catholic University. He got his Masters in Composition, and now he is working for his Doctorate. But he’s got— Mrs. Harendza: Perpetual student Michael: He’s got maybe one or two visitations left, and maybe one or two concerts. [pause] Well, I told you. Well I got a couple of nice sins I have [laughs], and I won’t admit that to nobody. Dan: We are not in a position to forgive you those, so you better tell those to a priest. [laughs] Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to add? Michael: Did I cover the ground pretty good? Dan: Very, very good. What ethnic customs do you carry on in your everyday life, Professor, you still carry on in your life? Anna: Yeah. Mrs. Harendza: Well, like Christmas Eve, and things like that. Michael: We have the traditions. Anna: You still go for the old tradition over the, ah— Michael: We have the old tradition. We say our Grace in Slovak for each meal, and—naturally, being here so long already, they are more Americanized. They haven’t the love of the past that I have, because I was born there, and that’s why I am so loyal to that. But I want you to know that the people of St. Cyril’s treated me wonderful. They gave me a chance. Now I had the chance to go to St. Patrick’s as organist, and several other good prominent churches, but I couldn't—Father said, “You would get three times as much as I give you.” “Father, when I was as green as green could be, you accepted me, the Franciscan Fathers accepted me, and our Slovak people accepted me also,” because I had a good voice and I was able to sing anything. I said, “Now that I got my credentials, I could go flying wherever I want.” Anna: Professor, you know what I wanted to tell you. When I told somebody that I am going to interview you, they said, “Please tell the professor that there'll never be another one like him.” Michael: Well, you see— Anna: That’s right—I agree. Michael: [inaudible] Mrs. Harendza: Yeah, but you don’t really meet that kind of organist these days. Dan: No you don’t. Not one that is dedicated, that—you got fine memories. Michael: We used to have five hundred children in the school, they would march in every morning to the school—you’ve seen them, Anna. Anna: Yeah. Michael: [inaudible] We had those big masses, you know, and they’d get all the schools together, and I was the district manager and director. [inaudible/crosstalk] This would happen once every month. Anna: Thank you, Professor Harendza. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Harendza Subject The topic of the resource Harendza, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Musicians -- Interviews; Organists; Slovak Americans Description An account of the resource Michael Harendza talks about his family's emigration from Storocin, Czechoslovakia and the conditions of the boat they took from Hamburg to Ellis Island and then their experience after arriving in America. They were placed in Binghamton, NY where he and his family learned to make do with little money. He talks about his first piano teacher, Cecil Masten, dropping out of school to take care of his mother, and singing in choirs and playing the organ to make money. He discusses his continued training as an organist and the variety of church jobs he held, as well as, concerts he participated in and the students he taught music to. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 32 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Harendza, Michael ; Caganek, Anna ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 48:03 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7de22e694bb21a5f6e7a43dfcb9a779d.mp3 bce9c63c7d9128252c4e4bf8abefc29e https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8881fcd0ab9d15c042aaef388c0b889e.mp3 544e6fe8a1a040be96df98f7592d9782 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hanifin, Michael J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-12-13 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:25 Minutes ; 40:27 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55934">Interview with Michael J. Hanifin</a> Subject LCSH Hanifin, Michael J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Police -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Prohibition; Endicott-Johnson Corporation; Willis Sharpe Kilmer; Binghamton City Mayor; Charles Kress; Stickley Furniture; Crandall, Stone & Co. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael J. Hanifin Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 13 December 1977 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil: interviewer. And I am interviewing Michael J. Hanifin. 95 Murray St, Binghamton, New York. Mike is a former police chief here in the city of Binghamton. The date is December 13, 1977. Mike, being a retired police chief in the City of Binghamton, tell me about your life and experiences in the community. Michael: Well, I was born on Pine St. At the age of one year, my parents moved to Liberty St, where I lived and went to the Robinson St school. I graduated from the Robinson St school. The high school, but did not go all, went to work instead at Crandall Stone's on Court St at the salary of $4.50 a week. I got a raise, I believe at $6.00, before I left there and went to Stickley’s and Grant Chair Factory, where I took a job as stock clerk and in a little over a year I was superintendent of the finishing department. Well I was making $1500 a year then, straight time, but the police department was the only place where they had a pension system, and thinking of the old days, I decided to take the examination. I turned the job down three times because I'd have to take a cut in pay of about 50%, and also work seven days a week. So in 1917 I decided to apply and was appointed. I worked six years as a patrolman on duty and two years on a motorcycle when I was appointed Sergeant, and a couple of years later, I was appointed Captain, and, ah… the title was changed to Assistant Chief at a later date, and then finally in 1942 I was appointed Chief of Police. In regard to my appointments, the examinations I took, I passed first for Detective, first for Sergeant, first on the list for Lieutenant, and first for Captain, and of course the only three jobs I was appointed to was Sergeant and Captain. The wages of a patrolman was $65.00 a month, and they deducted, ah, your pension payments from that amount. You had to work a year in order to get two weeks vacation. In other words, I worked 17 months before I was entitled to pick a vacation due to the old men picking first. That, as I say was, in 17 months that was the first night I had off duty—all night work and the only assistance you had was a police whistle. If you got in trouble you had to handle it yourself—no police boxes, no radios or any of those things they have today. The most important case that I was involved up—involved in, rather—was a holdup of the streetcar place on the upper State Street, when three holdup men with guns held up the place around 3 o'clock in the morning and got part of the day’s receipts. So I was just getting through duty when the call came in and, ah…I, ah, ordered them to get four or five officers from their posts and I—one officer earlier had seen a car parked on ah Thorpe Street, so with the other officers I went down there and I went to the door. There was a light in the house, it was a twin house and I ah rapped the door. The lady came and she said, I asked her, "Is there any trouble around here?” and she said she was setting up with a sick baby, but she insisted on me going up and see the baby, which I did. I asked her who lived in the other part of the house and I believe it was her father-in-law. So then we started knocking at that door—it was a bitter cold morning, December 15th and, ah, I had the officers placed around the house at important points, and all of a sudden I went out to see if there was any footmarks in the snow leading into the house, when all the lights in the house went on and the officers called from the side to me to come around, and as I was going by, I saw they had one of the holdup men in the kitchen sitting in the chair and the officer standing over him with a gun, and then I went around to the rear and here's two more of the holdup men coming out of the cellar with their hands over their heads. So, in my opinion, it was a very very important arrest. There was two unsolved holdups in the city—the Kroehler Manufacturing payroll and the Gotham Shoe payroll—and out of that arrest, they cleaned up both of those incidents, and, ah, while the officers was going by the cellar window where the men were, they saw them with their guns in their hands and they hid three revolvers in the cellar. So I took them to the Police Station, where I questioned them at some length and they, they sent two officers over to search the cellar and they found the three guns up in the rafters of the cellar, and, ah, in the course was locked up and, ah, District Attorney Gold was elected to take office the first of the month, and that morning he started on December 15th, and the men were tried and convicted, but in my opinion in my 46 years in the Police Department and I believe in the history of the Police Department, that was probably one of the most important arrests that was ever made. Dan: That was in what year, Mike? Michael: 1933, I believe. Dan: 1933. Michael: Yeah. Dan: That was…you mentioned a streetcar holdup. Michael: Yeah, but the streetcar—they had the day’s receipts. Dan: Oh, I see. Michael: That, the barns up there and they, you know where the streetcars started out, where State Street, up there by the garbage place, and, ah, as I say, in those days when I was appointed Sergeant, there was no such things as cars like they have today. The Sergeant went to work at eleven thirty at night and the particular night shift, the officers went to work at eight and got through at four. Well, as a Sergeant, they used to take a different route each night, but the only assistance I'd get was a ride when I’d take the streetcar up to the East End to start and get out near East Junior High School, see the officer in that area, then I'd have to walk over to Chenango Street up as far as State and Chenango Streets, then I'd see them between there and the viaduct. I had to see two there—they alternated on the corner there, one would walk around his post one hour while the other stayed there, then the other would do the same thing the next hour. Then I'd have to walk over to Clinton Street, see two officers over there, and then from there down to Glenwood Avenue and Clinton Street, see the officer there, then across the Main Street and walk up and generally see the officer there at ah Main and Jarvis, and then from there up to Main and Front Street where they alternated there, one walking around his post one hour while the other one was on the corner, then I'd have to go over town, walk over into the 5th Ward, see the officers there, then up to the 6th Ward, see one there near Crowley's Milk Plant or in that area generally, and from there over to Liberty and Court and see the officers there, and down through Court Street and see the officers on the different corners. Then I'd have to do that before 3:30 in the morning and then I'd have to take the officers that was going out to their posts, while there wasn't too many then, maybe a dozen officers—the most of them were on nights. Then I would have to go around and see them on their posts before reporting off duty. If I had a car like they do today, I could do most of it in an hour and a half. Dan: Did you have to walk all that distance? Michael: Walk it. Dan: Didn’t you even have a bike? Michael: No, no, walk it. And seven days a week. Dan: No days off? Michael: No, no days off. You got two weeks vacation and you had to work a full year before you got it. Now, today they allow you so much for so many months you work, you know, in that first year. And they get a month and a week for holidays or so as I understand it—why, there’s no comparison. One of those, why and I must say that officers in those days demanded respect. There’s no young hoodlums walking around up to them and saying, “Oink, oink,” like there is today and getting away with it. No wonder there's no discipline. Dan: You were Sergeant at the time you had to go make all those calls? Michael: Yes, yes. Dan: And that was what year, Mike? Michael: Oh, I was appointed Sergeant in 1925. Dan: 1925. Michael: And I passed First for Detective, but the, the Commissioner has a choice of the first three, and, ah, a fellow named Casey got it but—which was all right, he was on a long time—he was friends of, to pick any of the first three. Then I passed First for Lieutenant, but in the meantime they were changing Chiefs when Hunt was Chief, and, ah so they ah appointed Abel to Captain, Chief, and to my surprise they sent for me one day and said, “We might as well do this all at once—we're making you the acting Captain.” I was first on the Lieutenants list, but they didn't appoint me because they intended to appoint me Captain, and as a matter of fact I was working as an acting Captain drawing a Sergeant's pay, and I was over the Lieutenants was drawing more pay than I was. That’s the way it was—you had to be appointed permanently before they gave you the money—today they make you acting, they pay you the money. So as, ah—was appointed Chief in 1942, and, ah, Chief Abel took a position with Remington Rand when they came here and started a plant in Johnson City, and he took over the protection duties down there, and, ah, then I worked from then until I was 70 years old, when I retired. Then of course in those days, ah, ah, we had of course naturally the petty little places where workers used to go to gamble, but never know that gambling as they’d try to make it out one time, and, ah, I know places where the so-called big shots were gambling, but you never hear any complaints about that—but the poor working man, why, they raided the place, you put the players in too in those days. And then as far as disorderly houses, there was one on Wall Street, and I wouldn't want to mention some of the guests that they had there cause it would surprise most of the people in the city. Dan: Was that run by Dora Warren? Michael: Yes. and, ah, I used to have to question them after we marked the bills and give them to what we call the stool pigeon to go up, to go in there, and then the police matron would take money from the girls when they'd be brought to the Police Station, and when you showed them the numbers on the bills, they knew they were sunk and they'd generally admit. Dan: Were you on the force, Mike, when there was a troop? The troop was here from either the CCC or else they were training here for some reason or another, and they, one of the fellas robbed Dora and they had to call the Police. Could you tell me about that? Michael: I don’t remember too much about that. They raided it while they were here, I know, but the details—why, it’s been so long ago. They were camped up there, I believe up near Deforest Street for a while, but ah, at the time I know there was, you know, an interesting story, but I cannot for the life of me remember the details. But, ah, to me that was one of the most disgusting things that I had to do, was to be questioning those, because I could not see them at all—no how. Dan: Now, during Prohibition days, Mike, what about—did you have to conduct many raids or anything? Michael: Yeah, ah, they had a vice squad that would raid now and then, but, ah…they always had places, naturally. That was a law that never should have been passed, the Volstead Act—and get arrested, but they would be right back in business again. Dan: What are your recollections about the Chapman Hotel? Are you acquainted with that? Michael: Well, ah, that was quite a place, ah, but ah it was just working people went there—they, you know, at the corner of Liberty and Henry Streets. And then later one of the Chapman boys owned the hotel, it was the old McDonald Hotel on Lewis Street. Dan: That’s the one I have reference to. Michael: and, ah, as I understand it, they did pretty good, but I cannot remember anybody that was in the bootlegging game as they called it—even those who was supposed to make quite a sum of money—that didn't die broke. Not a one. I can’t remember one that really, you know, so there must be some curse to the liquor. and, ah, also there were several of them on the North Side—their wives died young. It seemed that there was a curse to it. I don't know what it is, but ah I’ve known too many cases, you know, where they all had hard luck. Dan: I know they used to refer to it as 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock Mass up at the Chapman Hotel, and they thought the Irish used to go to church up there. Michael: Yeah, years ago, too, you know, when—well, even before Prohibition, they had a ladies’ entrance, you know, to most, you know, “high class places,” they'd call them that—ah, the lady would look up and down the street for 5 minutes and then duck in. You know, she'd be so ashamed to go in there—today they go right in and push the men away from the bar. Well I, in those days it was a rare thing even to see any promotions in the Police Department. The superior officers, they'd work until they were ready to drop dead, and they were all fine husky men and as I say you work all night on the post—wherever you lived, you had to walk home in the morning at 4 o'clock, so you got plenty of exercise, and as I said before, the only real protection you had was a whistle. If you got in too much trouble you might blow that, somebody might hear you—and phones were scarce. There wasn't too many in a particular neighborhood, but somebody might call the police station and ask for help, but that’s the only way. Today they have radio, walkie-talkie and all the different communications. Dan: When were firearms first introduced for the policemen? What year? Do you know, Mike? Michael: Oh, of course they were. They had always…I imagine they always had firearms. Dan: Well you mentioned that all they had was whistles on the beat for protection. Michael: Oh, they had firearms too. Yeah, I mean like having another officer there like they do now, come in the car and what have you. Oh they always had firearms, always you had the firearm, but I mean that without using your firearm, I mean the only protection you had for the calls for assistance would be a whistle. Dan: I see. Now you had an affiliation with Bob Stephenson on the Detective Bureau? Michael: Well, Bob had retired a year, I think. I knew him real well before I got there. Yeah, he was quite a detective. Dan: Now you, ah, mentioned Crandall & Stone, where your first job. What were conditions there? What did— Michael: They made automobile hardware. Dan: Automobile hardware. Michael: Yeah, I finally got a job, that is what they call a promotion there. They have about 2 days a week, or 2 afternoons, rather, where you would, ah, what they call Japan, ah, brass nuts what were on bolt sockets—they had touring cars. You got a cent and a half for doing a gross, on piecework. And as I say you really had to work—the boss was right over you all the time—although I enjoyed it. I used to see how much I could do, but ah, how strict they was at night. The whistle blew and I forgot my cap. There was another young fellow named Griffin that lived near me on Liberty Street, and he was in the packing room, and I used to run out and get him and walk across the tracks home, but forgetting my cap, I had to go back after it and here's this big boss standing there and I'm running on my own time, and he gave me the devil. He says you run here in the morning the same way when the whistle blows. I said if they did that to an employee today, they'd have him locked up. Dan: Now what about Stickley’s? Now they were manufacturing what? Michael: Furniture. Dan: Furniture. Michael: Yeah. Dan: Is that a forerunner of Kroehler’s, now? Michael: No, no, Kroehler’s came later. They were up at Abbott Street. Levinsons bought Stickley’s out, but they later went out of business, and— Dan: What did you do at Stickley’s, Mike? Michael: Well at Stickley’s I thought I’d learn upholstering, but then this job came up, ah, stock clerk, and they asked me if I’d like to take it, and I did, and in no time at all I was superintendent of the finishing department. I was boss over fellows that was working there before I was born, at the age of 19. Dan: But the reason you went on to the Police Department was because of the pension plan— Michael: The pension, yeah. Dan: —and you were appointed in 1917? Michael: Yes, yeah. Dan: Were there Civil Service Exams then? Michael: Oh yes, yeah, yeah. The Commissioners then, I can remember Bennett, Brown, and Barnes—the three B's—and Frank Truitt was Mayor, and, ah some people thought he was narrow-minded, but he was one of the finest fellas that ever was. That Truitt—you know, that Truitt Shoe Company?—a very fine man. In those days, the people that worked officially at City Hall like Councilmen—they were generally businessmen. They didn't do it for the money, they did it for the good of the City, but at one time on the Common Council was Tom Behan, President of the 1900 Washer; Ed Sweet, ah, who with his brother owned Sweet Foundries; Romey Whiting, East End, who owned the feed mill; John Delavan, who operated Titchner Iron Works; Michael Sweeney, who owned half of Davie & Sweeney Laundry; Dr. Maddi. Them type of men, you know, were Councilmen. Dan: Very prominent. Michael: And when you went up there to spend 10¢, you better show them you were going to get 11¢ in return—not like today. Dan: Now you, ah, recall the Overall Factory Fire? Michael: Oh, yes. That happened on my 20th birthday. And, ah, I let the fellas go home early that day. Ah, a fella named Benchley was Treasurer of Stickley & Grant, and he came back at once, told us about the terrible fire downtown. My sister at the time was working at Hull's Cigar Factory—she was what they called a roller, you know, roll the cigars. That was about a block away. She saw some of the poor victims falling from the fire escapes—you know, the blazing, the fire blazing around them. It was horrifying, but I didn't see it ‘til after. You know, when the fire was out. I went down later. Dan: That was located where, Mike? Michael: On Wall Street. Dan: On Wall Street. Michael: Next to the Post Office. Dan: Post Office. Michael: The Post Office was on the corner in those days. It was a terrible thing, happened on my 20th birthday. Dan: You were…let’s see, on the Police Department at the time? Michael: Oh, no. I was a boss in the chair factory. Dan: Oh, you were a boss in the chair factory. Michael: Yeah. And, ah, as I say, I let the fellas go home early,. They wanted to go down because it was something unusual. Yeah, and it was a terrible, warm day. Terrible…I can remember that. Dan: Now you mentioned your sister. Now, which sister worked in that tobacco factory? Michael: My oldest Sister. She's a year older than I am and her name's Conrad. She lives in our old homestead on Liberty Street yet. Dan: On Liberty Street. We're trying to find out as much as we can about the tobacco factory. Were you acquainted at all with her job in the Hull's tobacco factory? Michael: No, that was there at the corner. This was quite a tobacco center in those days. Dan: Oh, it was the tobacco center of the world at one time. Michael: They had General Cigar on Wall Street, they had Hull’s at the corner of Water and Henry, they had Kent’s on Chenango Street—my father worked there, next to where the Greyhound Bus is today—and they, ah, had another one, I can't remember the name, up at the corner of State and Chenango Street, and then on Water Street they had Barnes, that later got the Red Dot Cigar out, and they built an addition or rented a place over on Clinton Street. They did such a business there, but it all seemed to fade away, you know, at once, and also the furniture factories. The only thing left around here, they had Stickley & Grant where I worked, they had Binghamton Chair on the other side of the factories, and they had cine or two small ones down at the end of Carroll Street there, and there’s nothing around today, and as I say, in those days and then EJ had two trains leaving the Erie Depot every morning taking employees to Johnson City and Endicott. They’d make stops on the west side, at Oak Street and Jarvis, and then they'd come back every night at 6 o'clock and they'd park all the railroad cars down near Liberty Street and, ah, jeepers. One night, this same fella that worked over later—the Griffin fellow, we both were selling even newspapers then, and we used to take the EJ train down as far as Liberty Street and walk up to our homes. And there was a train #14 that was late this night, and the kids was fooling around, and he thought he was getting on the EJ train. Gets on and he's laughing away that he got away from the other kids, and they went by Liberty Street, hell bent for election—took him to Susquehanna! and, ah, as I say, EJ at that time was employing around 20 or 25 thousand people, and how those people used to get up early in the morning to be down there and then late at night, and I believe they worked 6 days a week—I worked 6 days a week at Stickley’s. 10 hours a day. Dan: You don't know what year Stickley’s went out of business, do you, Mike? Michael: No, no. I really can't. Dan: But they were furniture manufacturers. Do you suppose Kroehler’s bought them out? Michael: No, no, I remember when Kroehler's came here…and, ah, when they built it. There was, ah, a fellow in charge of the finishing department, you know, came over to see me—I was working at Stickley’s, you know, and I knew him. They were quite an outfit there for a while. ‘Course a lot of things have been improved upon, like at Stickley’s. One thing about Stickley’s, the furniture was 100%—if it was oak, it was 100% oak. It wasn’t veneered. And of course naturally they had to get a price, you know, we couldn't with their costs and their profits, and the other factories’d come out and put a veneer on the front. To the ordinary purchaser, one looked just as good as the other, but one was much cheaper, so that competition got pretty tough—that was the Mission furniture and, ah, the brothers, the Stickley Brothers up in East Syracuse. They were quite an outfit, and then later, ah, Stickley out of there, his son has the Stickley photograph place there on Carroll Street. Dan: That’s still going. Michael: Yeah, yeah. Dan: They moved over, of course, to the Vestal Plaza. Michael: You remember Carl Stickley? Dan: No, no I don't. Michael: He was a cripple or something—I forget what was the matter with him, but he did all right, he certainly did alright. Dan: Mike, if you worked seven days a week, what did you do for recreation? Michael: Oh boy, I’m telling you, you didn’t go out nights running around like they do today, don't you know. What a change, that's what I say, of course, ah, the inventions and everything, they'd make things easier to build and manufacture. Some of these persons I say, a lot of people I talk to, I wish for 6 months that this entire country could be put back to those early days and have them work the way they had to work, save the way they had to save like the other things, and then they would appreciate, you know. Now of course, when I was a kid, I thought the only time they had eggs was at Easter. As I say, if you got up in the morning— [interruption—someone at the door] Dan: You were born, brought up on Pine Street? Michael: I was only a year old when they moved up, ah, on Liberty Street. Dan: Oh, from Pine Street to Liberty Street. Michael: Yeah. Dan: And how was Pine Street in those days? Of course, you were a little young at the time. Michael: They were fairly nice neighborhoods, you know, for ordinary folks like my parents, were immigrants from Ireland, hard working, and one thing I'd like to say—all the people were alike. They were just ordinary people, and someone, once in a while, would have hard times, be out of work or in debt, have you. There was no such thing in those days as relief, and I'm just as sure as I'm sitting here, if there was such a thing as relief, they wouldn't accept it because they'd think it’d be a stigma for the rest of their lives. And in addition, then what they would do, they would take in washings and wash and iron clothes—a large basket for a dollar and a quarter, and there was no electrical appliances then, like electric washers or—it didn't make much difference how much money you had, and they would scrub those clothes on a washboard, and boil them, and then hang them out to dry, and then iron them, and they'd do, as I say, a large basket for a dollar, or a dollar and a quarter. That’s what some of these people should be made to do today, also. Dan: Right. Michael: They could learn the value of the dollar. Dan: That’s right. Now, were there mostly Irish up there on Liberty Street at the time? Michael: Yes. It seems peculiar—like on Pine Street and Henry, there was almost all Irish extraction at one time, and, ah…then the Italians came and they moved in there, and the Irish moved up on Liberty Street. They got along all right, they were all fine people, both the Italians and the Irish, but that’s the way. Then over in the First Ward all the Slavic, Lithuanian and other ethnic groups moved over there, very fine people, and always kept their homes up nice, you know, worked hard, and worked, most of them in the shoe factory, and they made real good citizens. But I don't know, the way things are today, and then there was Jewish people would be down around, ah, Susquehanna Street and South Street. They'd be rag pickers, they'd have a horse and truck going around picking up bones and everything, and some of them men were the fathers of some of the finest lawyers that was ever, you know, in the City of Binghamton. Dan: Sure, sure. Michael: And, ah, there was Jake Smith that I could remember him—he was a fruit peddler and he'd tell the policemen he'd leave his cellar, he'd leave the door open, he says, “If you want something during the night,” he says, “you go down and help yourselves.” About 3 o'clock in the morning sometimes you could go down, get a piece of pineapple and stand at the corner of South Street all by your lonesome nippin’ on it. Oh I'm telling you, believe me, when that Sergeant came around in those days you’d better be there. Dan: Was Charlie Kress in office at the time that you were on the Police Department? Michael: Oh, Charlie Kress, you know, ah, he was a peculiar individual, but he was a very bright fella and he thought at one time that I was giving news to the Scrantonian, which used to write him up once in a while, and, ah, so one time he changed me—I was Assistant Chief then—he put me in from midnight ‘til eight in the morning. He couldn't take me out of circulation entirely. He told Abel he'd have to work from eight ‘til four, and Sheehan from four ‘til midnight. I went looking for him one night when he was Mayor. Had a little Model T Ford in the Police Station then, and the first two times I went around in front of City Hall, I could see him in there, he'd even be in there at night, and there was cars parked, so I couldn't stop and I kept going around the block, and the third time around, it was in darkness and I looked over and I see him walking up the street—no hat, you know—in front of Resnick’s. I pulled up in front of the Courthouse—that Model T, I don't know, somebody knows if it stopped when I got out of it, because I couldn't, and I went over and said, “I want to see you.” Well him and I went at it, he walked away from me, you know, and over to the Courthouse, and me right after him, he finally threw up both hands—says, “Work any hours you want.” And, ah, from that time on, I never had a better friend. Oh, I had a great letter out here, but some way the Chief'd read it, boy could he write a letter. And, ah, one time he was running, and of course some of the politicians didn't like him too well. And, ah, of course the Sun supported him but the Press was against him, and, ah, he put a piece in the Sun one morning—he says if there was a skunk under a porch and you threw the Binghamton Press in there, the skunk would come out. He was a smart cookie, believe me. Dan: Yeah, he was. Michael: And he got more, in my opinion, for every dollar spent out of City employees than any Mayor in my memory, and I remember a lot of them. He had a way about him, and down in Washington, he had friends in both parties. He was really clever. Dan: Now, the Police Department at one time used to wear the uniforms like the Bobbies in England. Michael: You mean with the helmets? Dan: Yeah. Michael: They got rid of them just before I went on. That's one thing I didn't want to wear, that large helmet. Yeah, they just got rid of them just before I went on. But boy, not bragging, maybe with an exception here and there, policemen in those days were real, good, dedicated, and believe me they commanded respect. There was nobody went up to them and said, “Oink, oink,” and got away with it. Dan: That’s very interesting, Mike. Michael: In fact, I got a book here, not in 1925—it was just before I was appointed Sergeant. Get that off for a minute, I just want you— [Michael leaves the room to get a book] Dan: I want to watch this [tape recorder] for a minute, so it won't run down. [tape resumes] Dan: Do you remember Willis Sharpe Kilmer and the Sun Briar Court on— Michael: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Dan: Could you tell me a little about that? Michael: Well, nothing. Only it was quite a place where they bred horses and what have you. And, ah, I know I was on the motorcycle—they invited me down there one day, but ah, yes, I remember when George Ely was the Secretary. Yes I remember Willis Sharpe’s father. He'd come—the Press was printed right up at the corner in the Swamp Root building—and he'd come out of there night, and I'd used to sell papers a penny apiece. You get two for a cent and sell them for a penny apiece. He'd always give you a nickel for the paper, and he could have picked it up right in his office, don't you know. Dan: Right, right. Michael: He was a short fellow, but—Willis was a big strapping fella, but the father was short, and, ah they used to say they got the business away from the father's brother. [Tape #2] Michael: He was supposed to be the one that had the ingredients that went into swamp root, but don't know how the Father got it away but they manufactured up there, but then over in England also, but after a while over in England they made, you know, like you know in advertising, what have you, change their methods, and they finally sold out. I think some outfit that took it up in one of the New England states. But during Prohibition, some people used to drink that instead of the other stuff they used to be able to get. There was some Palmatier fellows, nice fellows, up there around Deforest Street that were bosses there—I remember my sister-in-law worked there. They made a pretty good dollar out of it, you know, when it was going. They used to tell the story, I don't know how true it is, that he was a good friend of mine, too, real good, gave me my first plane ride. I was always scared to death to ride a plane, and, ah, there was a local contractor here named Lawrence Kane, was a friend of mine, he was a friend of this Ralph Sweet and, ah, had Sweet’s plane up there at upper Glenwood Ave. He had that airport, and, ah, he offered me to take a ride and, ah, finally they asked me so much, I was a Captain then, and, ah, I said to Lawrence, I says if he wants to take me up to see my boy at Notre Dame, I'll consider taking a ride, thinking that'll be the end of it. So in a couple of weeks, he calls me and says, “You got a pencil?” I thought he was giving me a riddle or something, and I said, “Yeah.” He says, “Mark this date down: June 26th.” I says, “What about it?” “It's the day you're leaving this earth.” I pretty near left then. “He's taking me out to Notre Dame to see your boy.” Well we told Father Lynch, who was at St. Patrick’s, and, ah, “Gosh,” he says, “I'd like to take a ride.” Well Lawrence says, “I'll see if there'll be room enough,” and they told him yes. He told his mother and his mother put her foot down—no. “Well,” I says, “if I'm up there with a clergyman I'll be all right,” but when his mother said no, I thought sure we were going to come down. So I started out that morning with him—Lawrence picked me up, I didn't even tell my wife—I told her I was just taking a ride with Lawrence Kane. Then I went up to see my mother, Lord have mercy on her, and, ah, she said, “Where are you going so early?” I said, “just take a ride.”  We drove around Front Street and a black cat, and I made him stop the car and turn around–go around another street. So when I got up to the airport, the Sweet airport, all that feeling had left me, and he had his own private pilot. So we get in, he said to me, “We might come down in Cleveland to stretch our legs.” I said, “If we get me up there, stay there until I get out to something,” but after I got up there it got so monotonous, you know, going along, I was glad to come down in Cleveland. So we went out and we met—oh, ah, what’s his name?—Father Connerton, I think, and, ah, he took us around the University and showed it, and that afternoon, in the morning rather, my boy finished his studies for the year, so he asked Ralph, how about bringing him back home? So he asked the pilot if, you know, he'd be too heavy a load or anything. He said no, it'd be all right, so we brought him home with us. We left here around 7 o'clock or 8 o 'clock in the morning—I forget which. I went out there, we had lunch, went around the University, started back around 4 in the afternoon and, ah, left there, brought my son with me, and was to work that night at 7:30. So that was my experience, and Sweet always got a great kick out of, you know, telling of how he gave me my first plane ride. After that I’d have taken off right in the middle of the road out here, you know, the, I overcame that fear. Dan: That was quite an experience, Mike. That Sweet…what business was he in, Mike? Michael: Well he was, he worked in the Shoe factory originally, and I don’t know how he got in there. Several fellows around, they used to—they had medicine of some kind too over there, but I can't tell you what—but they used to tell the story, but I don't know how much truth there's in it. He used to have an ad in the paper—you could advertise anything in those days—says, “Send 10¢ and get a yard of silk.” They'd send ‘em a yard of silk thread. Whether that was true or not, I was never able to find out. But he, he really would, at times his knees was through his trousers when he’s going to work, but he was a millionaire afterwards. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And, ah, I was one of his pallbearers when he died. But he really got a great kick thinking of—oh, and then later he got a plane, was a Beechcraft, and, ah, I think he sold his to the Government. Then later, the wings was falling off some of them. Oh boy, was I scared then. Then he got a new one out, a smaller one, and he called me up one afternoon and he says we might as well go up, and we went around Watkins Glen and then we came down in Ithaca. It snowed or something, I forget now, but that day I got airsick, it was bouncing around like a rubber ball up there. Dan: Now he ended up in what business, was it Swamp Root? Michael: No, no. No, I don't know, I don’t know what he was interested, but he had, he had a lot of money. Dan: Dabbled into a little bit of everything, huh? Michael: I guess so, yeah. Dan: Was it his daughter that married one of the Johnsons? One of the Sweets married a Johnson. Michael: No, no. I'll tell you, where he lived at one time was in that red house on Walnut Street that sets back in with the big fence around there, for years there. And, ah, to tell you the truth, I really don't know exactly, but you know it was lots of businesses like Swamp Root, and didn't advertise anyway like that, but later on, they started tightening up later, but he had a lot of money all right, there was no question about that. Dan: Do you know of any reason why the cigar manufacturers kept dwindling down and eventually went out of business? Michael: I really don't know, I really don't know, unless it was like the General Cigar Factory came here and everything was like things are, like the machines, don't you know. Well you see, they made what they call bunches—that’s the inside of the cigar. It took two of them to keep my sister going. She was real fast—what they call a roller. They rolled, you know, the outside, and it was all done by hand, but the General I understand, you know, more mechanical, and I would imagine like everything else, making things by machines instead of by hand. Dan: Now your sister, Mrs. Conrad you said—where does she live? Michael: She lives in the old homestead, 99 Liberty Street. Dan: 99 Liberty Street. Do you suppose she would mind giving me her experiences in the Cigar Factory? Michael: Oh, no. Dan: You see we have very scant information about—we know about the cigar factories, but not the people that worked in them. 99— [interruption] Michael: Yeah, yeah, 99 Murray. Dan: 99 Murray—that would just be up the street here. Michael: No, 99 Liberty. Dan: Oh, Liberty. Michael: She's 86 years old. Dan: 86. Michael: Now I'm 84; I'll be 85 in July. Dan: Well, you're going strong, Mike; keep that lamp on. Michael: Oh, I got the back separated back there, and it’s, and it’s causing—last year I didn't feel any older than I was when I was 50. Now I feel like 150, and the doctor that operated on me, Dr. Gold, he said, “You're going to make 95.” I said, “Geez, I think he made a mistake.” I think he meant 9:00 that night. Do you know Dr. Gold? He's in with Wescott. Dan: Not personally. I've heard of him. Michael: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Well is there anything else you would like to tell me about the Police Department that sticks out in your mind at all? Michael: Well there's some things I could tell you, but they'd think I'd be bragging though—this isn't on, is it? Dan: This is on, yeah, but as far as bragging is concerned, this is not going to be published—it’s not for publication. Michael: No, no, but they’re different today than—it’s easier to find a law abider today than it is not, to tell you the truth. I get more complaints here than I did when I was working. Believe it or not, I know every move they make. Dan: Yeah, ought to get a police scanner so you can get all their calls. Michael: No, anything that plays, anything on television, I turn, I says, “I seen enough,” that—they tell us about three being in, down, two of us got to be in violation of the rules and regulations. Anyway, when you left the Police Station, you walked in those days, of course, you had to go directly the shortest distance to your post, as fast as possible. Stop in—ah, what’s that place? Woolworth’s—have coffee. I was there, too, when three of them would be on their way home, but especially two would be off their post, even. One of them of course would be working their post about 2 o’clock in the afternoon. They'd see three coming out of the building there on Court Street, where the bus starters have their room. Boy I’m telling ya, they're getting great money today really. Did you ever hear of any of them quitting and getting another job? Dan: No I think they’re starting out at 10 or 11 thousand dollars today, and a very good pension plan after 20 years. Michael: Oh yeah. Without bragging, the best, Sullivan, Gillen, O’Dea—his sister is married to my son. I bet I did more work than the three of them put together. Dan: Yeah. Michael: Sullivan, he sat around newspaper men, what have you—his wife’s more of a man, acts more like one, walks more like one. When in church, he'd be behind her like a little kitten. She’s put him into the pew. Fact, she was designed the uniforms, and after she got through, they threw them out, as I understand, around the locker room over there, ‘cause, like an Eisenhower Jacket. The taxpayers paid for that. When I went on you had to pay for your own uniform, you had it made by a tailor. You had to buy the cloth from the City, and I was the first one that got them a uniform allowance, $50.00. They'd have to grain that uniform, that’s their part, if it’s that’s replaced—into their Assistant Chief, and have them see it, get his permission, go and have it made and come back before he'd send it up there. Now I understand they're getting around $150 in January and $100 in July. I haven’t, I’m going to check up to see it. The taxpayers and the, eventually the renters too, had to pay that time then. Taxes for things like that, now like that. It's terrible, absolutely terrible. Dan: Well, back in the…after the repeal of the 18th Amendment, you used to get quite a few winos. Could you tell me something about when you used to take and, ah, put them up for the night at the Police Station down in the basement—the old Police Station? Michael: Oh they used to, the fellas came in like, ah—”lodgers,” they called them. Take their name down and release them in the morning. The poor fellas would go out and the first thing, they'd be looking for cigarettes and, you know, stubs that was thrown away. I’d have them even stop me in the street when I would be going to the office, you know, extend me for a quarter. Then I'd tell them who I was and some of them would pretty near drop dead. But I’d give the poor devils a quarter, don't you know. Dan: Didn't they have boards downstairs where they could—? Michael: Yeah, they slept on them, yeah, on the boards—even the prisoners slept on boards. Boy, I’m telling ya, and then as I say, not bragging, I'll bet you I got more statements out of more law violators for felonies than anyone in the 42 years that I was working there. Of course I wouldn't get away with it today. Dan: What were some of the principal violations in those days—breaking the law as far as Prohibition was concerned? Michael: Well, no, burglary and things like that, and you know, felonies. You know, if they could outtalk them it was OK, but the minute they started giving me snide remarks… The only time that I really come close to, ah, getting into difficulty—ah, Abe Gold, Dr. Maddi, and myself were like three brothers. Abe was District Attorney at the time, but they got a call one night over on the south side, and, ah I don't know whether it was a drugstore or what was being burglarized. When they caught the young fella, 24 years old, and, ah they brought him in to talk to me to question, to try to get a statement out of him. Finally he turned his rear end to me, then I got up and turned him around and I forgot my ring, and gee, I cut him over the eye here and couldn't take him to court for three days. Took him over to the hospital there. Dan: [laughs] Michael: When he got there, Richardson was the judge, and you know his southern accent. He says, “What happened to you?” Given his due, he says, “I was chopping wood and a piece came up and hit me,” but when he went home, he told his mother the true story, so she goes to the District Attorney. Abe says to her, “You’re lucky your son is not on his way to Attica.” So she was satisfied then, but that's the closest I’ve ever come. But you bet your life they generally signed faster, you give them, as I say, you couldn't get away with it today. Like some of these decisions—and they're split decisions too, 5 to 4—the Supreme Court made a short time ago. There was two officers went after a fellow in a neighboring state where they picked him up, and, ah he had killed a young girl, and on the way back, they were very nice to him, but they didn’t tell him that he didn’t have to say nothing unless he had a lawyer and all that. and, ah I’ll be darned, a 6 to 5 decision—I think it was that they threw the statement out, you know. I was going to write ‘em that time, but I didn't. I was going to say if I was in charge of a Police Department in the district where you're living, I'd leave orders there, if you or any member of your family called up and said that you were being attacked by these thugs, to tell you that we’re were busy and to take care of it yourself—making heroes out of them and that Kuntsler, that lawyer. Dan: You mean of the American Civil Liberties Union? Michael: Yeah, boy. I don't mind giving a person a break or two breaks, you know, if they’re entitled to it or something like that, but some of those thugs that’s out there that’s— Dan: Well they're protected, you know, with the Miranda. Michael: Well, they kind of doctored up that decision now, you know, it’s not as strict as, you know, just because they didn’t rap on the door or something. Dan: Yeah. Michael: They're sitting on the old perches out there, up there. They're not out there taking, you know, this stuff from these thugs. Dan: You were on the force when George Weslar was killed, weren’t you? Michael: Yes, yeah, I was acting Chief that time. Charlie Kress was Mayor. They called me here, ah, and went over there on Water Street, and I think that was the first time we ever used gas, and poor George, he was, he wasn't working, but this fella, I don’t know, was having trouble with his wife or something, but anyway, so George goes over and goes to go up the steps, and he was up there with a shotgun—killed him. Some other fella that was going with him, and he killed him too. Dan: That boy was going to school with me, I forget his name right now—he was from St. Mary’s. Michael: Is that so? And anyway, they called me over there, and finally Joe Varsick, the detective, you know, we shot the gas up in there so we figured, well, can’t be that he was escaping then because wasn't getting any response or from out back. Charlie even climbed the pole out there, Charlie Kress, and Varsick went up and he shot himself—the fellow, you know. Dan: Committed suicide? Michael: Yeah, yeah. But there was enough gas up there that he had been immobile, anyway. Yeah, I can remember that right well. Oh, there’s probably a lot of other places, but they don't come to my mind fresh now but ah, I see once in a while they put in the paper something I can never remember. They said, ah, Captain Abel and Sergeant Hanifin, how they raided a disorderly house on Court Street—I can never remember a thing about it, said later we both became Chiefs, you know, like that. Another time they had up there about me chasing kids off the ice near Rogan’s Mill up there, tell them if I catch them out again they'd go to jail. I couldn't remember it at all, didn't you know. You know, a lot of interesting things if a person could remember them. Dan: WelI remember the Chapman Hotel. They used to call 11 or 12 o'clock Mass down there—that used to be a scream, ‘course they'd be going down there. Michael: Yeomans—that’s how they appointed Casey, to tell you the truth. In those days they thought that they was—I have no definite proof, you know, of any acts of these—they used to call the little Brothers. But if you was a Catholic, you know, and Yeomans was Commissioner, see. Dan: Commissioner of what? Michael: Of safety. So ah, he ah, we had an examination in those days, they'd detail you to a job and they'd give you an allow for experience but they don't allow you today, or go in there either. So Casey got so many points on the examination for experience. “Oh,” he says, “so I am going to take it anyway.” I beat him by 5 points, even with his number first, so Helen Brick—do you remember her? Dan: No. Michael: Lived on Pine Street, she was a Commissioner's Secretary, and I'm on a motorcycle and I dropped in the office early on a Monday morning, and Kress didn't like me much—he had quite a piece. He got the tipoff on a Saturday’s paper that Yeomans was out of town, trying to put him in the middle. I knew Casey’d get it, even if he was, he had the right to appoint the first three anyway, and he told him about the civil service commission found me to be the best qualified and all this—a lot of blarney, not so much for me, just a lot of politics. So I came in on the motorcycle at half past nine Monday morning and Helen Brick walked down the hall to the main office. She says, “Congratulations.” I says, “Yeah, that’s all the good it'd do me.” She says, “Oh, he didn't appoint him already did he?” That’s what burned me up. I come over here and I never felt anything, but Dr. Day had me come in—my stomach was upset and he cured it, you know, upset stomach. I came over here and got a little drink, stick of gum in my mouth, back I'd go and I go into his office, and he says, “Mike, I was going to send for you,” and I says, “I came in to see about that job that I know the appointment was made upstairs.” Now he says, “I haven't got a thing against you, Mike.” ‘Course there was two or three made, well I always promised Frank that I would make him a detective and, ah I promised him, you know, he was a great one. [interruption] Michael: Before I got off these places, he was a death on boozer’s driving. Had me in front of Chapman's on Henry Street to make arrests if they had signs out, but never arrested anybody. They took me out of there and put me up to the Arlington Hotel and put Casey down there, you know, so to patrol something. Said to him, “Now, Commissioner, you tell me if it’s anything I've done, and I'll try to correct it—if you tell me if it’s anything I'm doing, it’s wrong and I'll stop it, but if it’s my religion, I'm doing nothing.” He says, “Here, here, here, and, ah so ah, you knew that,” says there'll be other examinations. I says, “You can't expect me to be passing first,” and it was, generally in those days there wouldn't be an exam. The guys would stick in there ‘til they dropped dead, you know, the old fellows, and, ah Kelly, this Sergeant, you'll see his picture in there, he was just able to shuffle along, you know—wouldn't have an examination. So I took it, and, ah Tommy Broughton was working in front of the Courthouse there, corner Chenango and Court traffic, when I'd go by in a motorcycle—stopped me one day. John McDonald, don't know whether you knew him or not, he was President of the Civil Service, and, ah he's got a kid that’s a lawyer with IBM, I guess he's down in Washington. One of his sons now is City Assessor. Dan: Oh, I know him. That McDonald, yeah. Michael: and, ah so ah, Ralph New, he was with McTighe’s grocers—the founder—and he stopped me, wanted to know if the papers been marked. ‘Course he took it too, so ah, yeah, said they're marked, but he wouldn't tell him who was ahead. He says it’s a smart redhead, he says was ahead. That’s all he told him, so Tommy stopped me, I said—of course his brother's hair was pure red, but my head was, you know, was never red—got a blond in it. I says, he says, “By God I think you're the one that’s on top,” and l sure enough I was. Jeepers, I got an old paper up there somewheres, you know there’s so much discussion about the thing right across the Sun, used to get out the Bulldog at night. Big headlines across: “Hanifin Sergeant.” You'd think I was President of the United States. Dan: The Bulldog was out on Saturday nights, wasn't it? Michael: Oh, every night. Dan: Oh, every night—a Special. Michael: Yeah, and I made him talk so much that day. I never, with my right hand up, I don't believe theres another one in the Police Department could say they never asked a politician or anybody to intercede for me in any way for any job. I knew they did, but not by asking them for me. They did it on their own or somebody else asking for them—I don't know, and, ah as I say, every examination I took, I passed first. Sergeant—first was Detective, Sergeant, Lieutenant, and Captain. Dan: When did they first introduce motorcycles in the beginning when you first went on the force? Michael: I think they were there before, I couldn't tell you, but they used to have horses when I was a kid. Had three horses, and, ah Lewis, Bucky Lewis was a cop then, Hillegas, and God I can't think of the other one. In fact, there was a murder up on Liberty Street one day, they was a couple of Italians, he was a nice fellow too, I often wondered, everybody thinks, it might have been named Maggio because he left here, he went out. I think that was his name, and he lived down near the Patch Pond, what they called it. There was a block there near Liberty Street, you go down the hill and there’s a little house down back, and he lived there and he worked on the railroad. But he had an argument with another Italian, and the Italian kept following him up to get rid of the party. He kept telling him to go back, and he showed him the gun—he had it, and the Roundhouse was there at Liberty Street near Eldridge, and just as they got there, he turned around and let him have it. Killed the guy. Up he comes and he’s coming up the street on a Sunday afternoon. The kid that lived in the neighborhood with me—I was 12 years old—his name was Dow, and there was a cemetery there on the corner of Eldridge and Liberty and it took in all of Wales Avenue all through there, and we run up in the cemetery when we see him coming up the street. It was a hot one. Pretty soon them mounted cops come, they drove the horses down the hill in to that house, but the guy was a nice citizen, you know, as far as that was concerned, but he got out of it. They didn't convict him, and when he left here shortly afterwards, he went to California. Lot of people thinks, you know, maybe he was one of Maggios or offspring from out there but I don't know, and that cemetery, we used to go down there as kids, pick coal along the tracks—people were poor in those days, you know. And there was an icehouse down there, and they used to cut, jug cut the ice in a patch pond, and they'd be taking the big cakes out and some pieces would fall, you'd put in your little cart and take ‘em home, and as I said before, there was no electric refrigerators. The rich people had to buy ice the same as the poor, but we only had those little chunks to put in ours, and the kids would pick up bones and sell them to the rag pickers. Oh, but the way things are today, why those people, as I, without being repetitious, I do not believe that anybody that lived on Liberty Street those are, if there was such a thing, which there wasn't in those days, as relief, that they would accept it. They'd think it would be a stigma the the rest of their lives, but today those people knock you out of the way up the stores coming out them, having a cab outside to come home in. So there is no incentive to work and save today, and if you do work and save then the government wants to take the money away in taxes. I just got a nice dividend from General Motors and I had to give $600 to the Government. They declared a nice fat dividend this year. Dan: Taxes amounted to 600 dollars? Michael: Yeah, they, years ago I had 200 shares, and God, I had to sell it, coming down. They kept calling me over to Baches and I finally had to sell 100 at a loss, and it went down, was only 100 I had left. I borrowed money off Mike Reardon, my brother-in-law, my mother, Lord have mercy on her, to keep that 100 I had left. I was in the hospital with a broken hip, was the only thing that made me feel good. It had split 2 for 1 before that and later, for every 20 you had, you could buy a share for $75, so I bought 10 shares which I was entitled for $750, and at that time it was selling for $94 so had 220 later, it split 3 for 1. No, 210 I had, split 3 for 1, so then I had 630 and I still held on to it. I'd have 1260 if I didn't have to sell that other. This past year, last year they paid 85 cents and they only made a nickel a share—they cut it down to 60 in one of the quarters, but the end of this year, they gave a dollar, which was 630 for regular dividend, two and a quarter extra. I got a check the other day for $2047.50. Dan: Wonderful, wonderful. Michael: Took me out of the red. Dan: How long have you lived here, Mike? Michael: Oh, I've lived here since I was married. I only lived in the three places—where I was born on Pine Street, on Liberty, and then over here, and when George was District Attorney, he was the one got me to buy this place. Dan: Dad was Assistant District Attorney. Michael: Assistant, yeah, and do you know what I paid down on this? $1300, and I gave, was it fifteen something? Dan: Now you say, Mike, you paid $1300 down on this. Michael: Yeah, and, ah the Binghamton Savings Bank had the mortgage five something, and then when ah Andrews was Commissioner, he liked me, you know, even to Frank Newell it take it over for five, and they they want to reduce the Savings Bank at that time, but he made arrangements with Newell to take it over, and, ah of course I paid it off some time ago, but I don't get within $30 or $40 of what I should be getting. ‘Course I get a break on the Veterans, but I should, like $135 is the highest I get here. About three years ago my gas used to cost me $800 a year, now they want $1848 to get it on the budget. Dan: ‘Course, the higher you put the rents, the more turnover you're going to get. Michael: Well that’s it, but you know at one time I had 5 widows, only one of them, your pardon, and the two of us—seven. Now there's, they're up there, and she has a lady taking care of her there and a man up on the top floor, he’s pretty good, used to take care of the apartments somewheres—he does a lot of work around here. Dan: Well, Mike, I certainly appreciate your taking your time. I’ll play this tape back for you if you'd like to hear it. I'd like to ask you one more question. You mentioned about a cemetery on the corner of Eldridge and Liberty—what ever happened to it? You were twelve years old at the time. Michael: Yeah, they dug the graves up, and a fellow named Lloyd, he lived on Liberty Street, old Lloyd had two sons—I forget their names now—and, ah when I was going to school at Robinson Street and I used to stand around. Some they only get a few bones out of there—everything had deteriorated and gone, you know what I mean, even the box. Dan: Do you know where they moved it to? Michael: Yeah, over to Spring Forest. Dan: Oh, Spring Forest. Michael: Yeah, they took everything out of there, and my uncle bought a lot at the corner of Liberty, and my father…Lord have mercy on both of them. My father bought a lot there, where the Bus company later had built a garage, and my uncle, he was ah, he was…ah, Jack Hanifin, they used to call him. There was three brothers, Mike lived on Henry Street—I was named after him—he was a grandfather to the Fire Chief that got drowned, and, ah he got wind they was interested in the garage, and he comes up and buys my father's lot off him, you see. And there was a murderer, I forget his name now, that was buried in the part where it was, up in the area where my uncle owned. Of course when they dug it down even with Liberty Street and all that dirt, but there was a murderer buried there, and, ah as I say, they made Water Ave and sold the lots out. There was only one row of houses on Robinson Street, and then there was two or three on Emmett, then all the rest of that area was cemetery. We'd go up there, as I say, and see it in little boxes, they put whatever they got in and then they took them over and buried them in Spring Forest. Dan: Right. A common grave, then? Michael: Yeah. Dan: I think over in Spring Forest is where all of the victims of the fire in the overall factory are. Michael: Yeah, they had services over at the Stone Opera House on a Sunday. Unidentified, don’t you know, after that fire. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael J. Hanifin Subject The topic of the resource Hanifin, Michael J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Police -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Prohibition; Endicott-Johnson Corporation; Willis Sharpe Kilmer; Binghamton City Mayor; Charles Kress; Stickley Furniture; Crandall, Stone & Co. Description An account of the resource Michael J. Hanifin talks about his upbringing, neighborhood he lived in while growing up in Binghamton, local businesses, cigar industries, and Endicott Johnson Corporation. He worked at Stickley Furniture and Crandall, Stone & Co., before applying to join the City of Binghamton Police Department. He worked as a patrolman, Sergeant, Captain, Assistant Chief, and in 1942 became the Police Chief. He describes his experience working through the ranks in the police force. He discusses important arrests and cases that were particularly memorable to him. He mentions notable people such as Willis Sharpe Kilmer and Binghamton City Mayor, Charles Kress. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 31A; Recording 31B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hanifin, Michael J. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-13 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 45:25 Minutes ; 40:27 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f47d0e5b73bb5d65fe2d0e3fbaa7fd5f.mp3 386f7e04bf514426c5a9cfafac14db1c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/45ec1e7f01012ee3ed7ec53d4c179a4e.mp3 633094c42297d285387d7a16a60e1c3c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Perhach, Michael M. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-07-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:51 Minutes ; 6:25 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55995">Interview with Michael M. Perhach</a> Subject LCSH Perhach, Michael M. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pharmacists -- Interviews; Albany College of Pharmacy; National Association of Retail Druggists (U.S.); New York State Board of Pharmacy; Junior High Pharmacy; Binghamton Exchange Club; Binghamton Recreation Commission; Kalurah Temple; Russian Orthodox Religion Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael M. Perhach Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 12 July 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, talking to Michael M. Perhach of 17 Crary Ave., Binghamton, NY, on July 12, 1978. Michael, will you tell us about your life and experiences in the community? Michael: Where do you want me to start? Do you want me to start with my mother and dad, where they were born and everything? Good. My father was born in Varinov, Austria-Hungary on March 4, 1877 and he came to America in May 4, 1894a—went to American schools—went right to Wilkes-Barre and became a choir director in Wilkes-Barre in 1896—at the salary of twenty dollars a month. I happen to see some old notes here that he wrote about 65 or 70 years ago and I translated. It is written in the Russian language, very nice handwriting, and I translated it from the Russian to the English. He was ordained a Reader in 1905 by the late Patriach Tihon—ordained a deacon May 22, 1909—and the following day, May 23, 1909 he was ordained a priest by Metropolitan Platon of New York City in New York City. The reason he waited until 1909 he was serving with Archpriest Toth who was one of the first who accepted Orthodoxy in America. Father Toth was a priest in the Wilkes-Barre parish, at that time, and he made the remark at one stage, I know, my dad used to tell me that he said, "I don't want you to be ordained a priest until after I die." Well, Father Toth wanted him to remain to be as his psalomshchik or his choir director and reader. But, Father Toth died on May 9 and sure enough, two weeks later my father decided then to be ordained a priest. He received many many nagradi or promotions what we call for his services to the Orthodox Church. His first parish up in Canada—Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba. In fact, at the time he was ordained he had three children, my oldest sister, Alexandra, Nicholas and John - and my sister, Lydia, was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba and then from there we went to Jacob's Creek, PA. That's where I was born—that's some 66-65 years ago and from Jacob's Creek we went to Brownsville, PA. He had parishes at, then, at Bayonne, NJ, and finally in Binghamton, NY, where he had his last parish—when we came to Binghamton, NY, why, that is the reason why I am in here. I came to Binghamton back in 1927. My mother, however, was born in America—was born in Wilkes-Barre Sept. 26, 1887. She just passed on last November at the age of ninety. My dad passed on will be 25 years this August, August 29. I started to talk about my dad's various promotions, now he received the Bereda, soft Bereda in 1916, then the hard Bereda or the kamilavka, as we call it, in 1917 and became an Archpriest in 1925 and he received a Palitza in 1938. The Palitza is one of the great honors given typical profound zeal for faith and for work for Orthodoxy and is conferred on the record, more or less on the record of honor. I told you, I have two brothers and two sisters and I am the youngest of all of them. We came to Binghamton, of course, because of this parish. My dad then retired. I went to grammar school in Brownsville, PA, then we went to Mingo Junction. I skipped Mingo Junction, Ohio, where I went to grammar school—then we went to Bayonne, NJ—we were there for a period of nine months. I went for one year of high school then came to Binghamton in 1927. I had two years of high school here, graduated from Binghamton Central in the year of 1930. I stayed out of school a year—in fact, I worked at the Carlova Perfume Factory and while working at the perfume factory—why—my dad wanted me—first he asked—if I wanted to become a priest. I said, "No," I said, "I'll think about it"—although I was close to the church—and all—I was directing the choir at the church when I was fifteen years old and I had a fairly good voice, so, I was singing in the choir, also. My dad said, "All right, stay out of school a year and then decide what you want." In the meantime, my uncle, John Yosack, in Wilkes-Barre was a undertaker. He wanted me to be an undertaker, so, I was to choose between an undertaker and a priest. Well, I stayed out of school a year—got a job with Carlova Perfume Factory and going to work at 7:30 o'clock in the morning till 4. One morning (winter) when I was going to work in the snow I decided, I said, “Well, this is not for me.” So, I came home told my dad–well, incidentally, my brother, Nick, was a pharmacist—”I think I will go into—pharmacy.”  The following September I went to Albany College of Pharmacy. In that time that was a three year course and I graduated Albany College of Pharmacy in 1934. I was born in Jacob's Creek, like I said, I was graduated from Albany College of Pharmacy in 1934. I came to Binghamton, naturally. I was living in Binghamton. I worked for one year and a half at the Junior High Pharmacy, at the time it was owned by Everett Crone—Crone Pharmacy and after year and half I bought the store, that's in 1936 in February. I've been in business—since 42 years or 43 years. I've been very active in the pharmacy profession. I was a member of Alpha Theta Chapter of Phi Delta Chi Fraternity. In 1949 I took a partner, Charles Jakaitis, we call him, Chick, as a junior partner. One time we had two stores, then three stores, then two stores and now, we just have one store, Junior High Pharmacy. I was president of the New York Pharmaceutical Society in 1953 and 1954, I think it was, and was member of the Executive Committee for about 12 years, and then decided to go to the National Pharmaceutical Politics so, I was a member of the National Association of Retail Druggists Executive Committee became its president 1968-1969. The National Association Retail Druggists is a organization composed of independent pharmacies, some 32 to 35,000—which took me away from the business for a while—for a whole year—was making trips to various pharmaceutical state conventions and also to other meetings and all with the association. The headquarters are in Chicago—at the present time the headquarters are in Washington, D.C. I'm past president, I've also active with the Federated Russian Orthodox Clubs, commonly known as the "R" Club. I was president of the Federated Russian Orthodox Clubs in 1941-1942 for two years. I was also about three or four years later a member of the Metropolitan Council which is the council of the composed of a priest and three lay persons in the Orthodox Church of America. At that time, the late Metropolitan Theophilis was the Metropolitan. I was also active with the Exchange Club and a past president of Binghamton Exchange Club, past Exalted Ruler of the Elks No. 852 in Binghamton. In the city, I was on the Recreation Commission appointed by the late Walker Lounsberry some 30 years ago—I served on that commission for about 24 years, and four different times I was its chairman, active in many of the civic and community projects. I’m a member of the Binghamton Lodge Masons #177, Otsiningo Consistory and the Kalurah Temple (Shrine). Also, this marks my 50th year singing in our choir in the St. Mary's Assumption Church on Baxter street. Also, I sang with the Otsiningo Quartet for 10 years. I found in addition to this, I found time to run my business and all and I might say a very successful business. I have one son who is 26 years old now, like his dad, also, went to Albany College of Pharmacy—graduated in 1975—he's a licensed pharmacist and he is taking over most of the management of the business, now. Nettie: Michael, I think you wanted to add something to this— Michael: Yes, I married the former Julia Sabol on February 27, 1949. I mentioned we have one son, 26 years old. The story goes—I was married on February 27, 1949 and our son was born on February 21—that was three years later—I am happily married. Is there anything more you want to hear? Nettie: I was asking you what you think of the generics they are talking about these days. Michael: Well the generic substitution law, I think you mean, that went into effect April 1st. Nettie: Yes. Michael: Well, the generic substitution law was a law that was supposedly, a consumer-oriented law, hoping to save the consumers—pharmacy, drug—consumers—money. But, really, it doesn't work out that way. It is added a burden on a lot of pharmacies because they have to duplicate the inventory and it's true, some of the drugs you might be able to buy some of the drugs for $7.50 per 100, you can get a generic for $2.50. But there are good and bad generics. There are some generic houses, in fact, the health department came out with a book—a green book—about 30-40 pages, in which they said these drugs are permissible to substitute and yet, they are not obtainable. Manufacturers, we never heard of, some of the manufacturers—some of the "bathtub"—so-called "bathtub" manufacturers—now some of the drugs don't even dissolve in the system—they’re not absorbed in the system. And the reputable stores, like our own, we handle about 20-25 of the most commonly generic drugs. For example on the diuretic which would be Diuril—hydrochlorothiazide. We handle Park Davis, which is a reputable company, and there is a saving of about 1/3 on what you would pay for your regular brand of the Diuril. The same is true on Librium—chlordiazepoxide. We do have generics on that, and which is quite a saving—where the physician now on all these blanks he has a permission granted for generic substitution or not—if he signs on the left—you must dispense as written and if he signs on the right—then we must substitute. The physician is supposed to discuss this with the patient, of course, physicians are busy. A lot of them do, some do and some don't. However, if they do sign on the left we must dispense as written—if he signs on the right it's not our choice, it's not the customer, patient's choice, we must substitute—if its substitutable and if we don't have it in stock we just have to give the prescription back and have to go to a store where they can obtain it.  It brings to my mind, a man came in with crutches just got discharged from a hospital—he had a chipped bone in the ankle or so. He came in with prescription for a pain pill—the doctor said to substitute—at that time I didn't have a generic—cheaper generic—he said, “I'm in PAIN, I don't care what it is—I want my medicine—I'm not going to go from store to store." Well, I had him sign on the prescription, which is illegal, sign on the prescription, he said, "I’m in pain,” said, “I told the pharmacist to give me the brand drug"—which I did. It only cost him $2.50, how much could he have saved when the man is in pain? So, the generic law, really, isn't all what it ought to be—it has its good points and but it also has its bad points. Now there are some ah—ah—pharmacies, I don't think we have them in our county—somewhere in New York City and other cities who will use the cheapest drug and they still charge for expensive drug—that has been happening—we find that out time and time again. I'm a member of the New York State Board of Pharmacy appointed by Board of Regents. We had many many cases that come before us when we have—5%, maybe less than that, who ruin a profession like just like it’s true of any profession. There are less than 5% of the doctors are bad and 98% are good and that's true with the dentists or any profession—and it’s too bad that is true but it's happening—to be a fact way of life. But as far as the generic law—then the interpretation of the law when it was first passed, April 1st—the Board of Pharmacy interpreted the law to mean in the event we did not have the drug we can could give another, we can give the brand name. Well, Rosemary Pooler who was very consumer oriented, in fact, she is on the payroll, and a fellow by the name of Haddad who was on Assemblyman Stinegood's payroll and consumer oriented—they said, the Board of Pharmacy is trying to protect the pharmacist and not the public. So, with all of the ballyhoo they said it was not the intent of law, Assemblyman Stinegood said it was not intent so it was not written in the law right so, as long as it was not the intent—why we then interpreted that in the event we have a pharmacist does not have the generic—why then of course, they have to refuse the prescription which is a hardship on the consumer, themselves. But that is the way they want us to interpret. Now, if you have any questions on the law itself— Nettie: Michael, I think you covered pretty much about everything I asked you to. Is there something you want to add? Michael: Well, as I said I'm on the Board of Pharmacy and my term expires next June 1979. It is very interesting work and we have hearings in New York City and Buffalo—most of them are in New York City. It is very interesting—talking about three or four days a month. Incidentally, since the first of January, why we have two consumer members on the Board of Pharmacy and one of them happens to be Jim Staley, Legislature right here in Broome County and the other consumer member is a lady from down Long Island. They sit in with us, except they sit in with us on the Board of Pharmacy everything except with the Board Examination and all, which is of course they know nothing about. They, Board of Pharmacy, we do give exams for candidates, I think, this last June we had, it would be a shot in the dark, they had 800 candidates for Pharmacy. Pharmacy is now a five year course and after a pharmacy student, after third year they apply for internship and he had to have three months between his third and fourth year, three months between his fourth and fifth year at which he will be eligible to take State Board. The State Board is divided into three parts—Part 1-2-3. Part 1 is a written examination—a lot of it is multiple choice—that is made out by the State Education Department of Testing. Part 2, combination of laws and also pharmacy and pharmacology, and that is made up by members of the State Board. Part 3, practical application which you are actually in a laboratory all and it also has to deal with interaction—drug interaction, telephone prescriptions, anything pertaining to the practice, itself. Parts 1 and 2 can be taken without before you can take internship, immediately after graduation, but Part 3 you have your 6 month internship. If you pass your exam, you of course become licensed in the State of New York. Being licensed in the State of New York you, then after practicing for one year you can reciprocate with any state in the United States except Florida, Alaska, Hawaii or California—those are the four states. However, someone, like myself—I took the Florida board ten years ago—I'm licensed in the State of Florida, also by examination. Examinations are according to the candidates—seemed to be rather tough, but they're not—a lot of them pass and a lot of them don't. After all we have to—Board of Pharmacy, of course, for the protection of the health citizenship state—not for the protection of the pharmacist or for the students. Have you any other questions? Nettie: No, that's quite interesting, I think very much so. Michael, I just have one more question—I'd like to have you explain the differences in pharmacy, say 20 years ago or so and now.  Michael: Yes, it was quite different when I went into business some 42 years ago. At that time we used to make our own capsules and pills and powders. I used to make a lot of different solutions—some stores even made their own citrate magnesia—we'd make our alexo-phenobarbatal and all, and now of course we buy those in gallons—capsules and tablets in the hundreds or in thousands. We depend on manufacturers on these. At the time, of course, there weren't the number of drugs that we have now. Now we do have so many drugs and with all the new ones coming up chances of interaction is greater—what I mean of interaction is that you taking one drug and if the physician prescribes another drug why either will inhibit the action of this one drug and might in some cases cause death or bleeding. An example is coumadin, which is blood thinner—one person cannot take aspirin with coumadin because they will bleed more. There are cases on record where they have taken aspirin with coumadin where they bled to death. So, there's other interaction between various drugs that we have to know, the more drugs that we have the more naturally there is a possibility there are of interactions, that what our pharmacologists in various laboratories and various manufacturers have to contend with. When they come out with a new drug, the pharmacologists have to test it against all the drugs that are out to see whether there will be any interaction or any danger in taking the drug in conjunction with another one. Of course, the pharmacy itself is a pharmacist’s—the old drug stores, we knew it was a common meeting place where all people meet and everything and they carried all their first aid supplies in addition to lot of sundry items. Nowadays, of course, your larger pharmacies especially our chain stores they have everything, even paint, pickles and everything which, of course, I don't approve of—but we do have a lot of pharmacies that just do stick to the first aid supplies, prescriptions and over the counter items, drugs—but they do have good nice cosmetic outlets—also, good card section, good candy sections, boxed candy and all which of course goes with a neighborhood pharmacy, especially in all. So, the difference of course, in the practice of pharmacy is really changed, we counsel patients now where we did not before. Prescriptions, forty years ago, cost 35¢—you just ring it up, say goodbye, and that was it—and now the same prescription cost is $1.85 in all, but the pharmacists in most good pharmacies talk to the patient and ask them if they are taking any other drugs and warn them for example—tetracycline—you should not stay in the sun too long when you take any tetracycline, which is Achromycin—any tetracyclines. Also, penicillin should be given on an empty stomach either 1 hour before meals or 2 hours after meals—should not take any milk or any dairy product with tetracycline—least 1 or 2 hours apart and all these things—we counsel the patients and customers what to do where years ago that was never done. We’d talk to them and ask how the family is—but as far as discussing the drugs itself, why—it was not done, of course, with Labeling Act we have to label all our prescriptions now and everything is labeled and everybody knows the name of the drug that they are taking—so years ago why when we made four or five ingredients to make one preparation, one powder, why we could not label the drugs and say what was and all. That's about the difference then and now. Nettie: Thank you, Michael. Michael: You’re welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael M. Perhach Subject The topic of the resource Perhach, Michael M. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pharmacists -- Interviews; Albany College of Pharmacy; National Association of Retail Druggists (U.S.); New York State Board of Pharmacy; Junior High Pharmacy; Binghamton Exchange Club; Binghamton Recreation Commission; Kalurah Temple; Russian Orthodox Religion Description An account of the resource Michael M. Perhach talks about being involved with the church during his youth as his father was an Archpriest in the Russian Orthodox church. He talks about the many places his family lived before moving to Binghamton.  He graduated from Albany College of Pharmacy and operated the Junior High Pharmacy in Binghamton. He speaks of his involvement in the community organizations such as the Binghamton Exchange Club, Binghamton Recreation Commission, and the Kalurah Temple.  He speaks of professional organizations he is a member of, such as, the National Association of Retail Druggists and N.Y.S. Board of Pharmacy. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 48 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Perhach, Michael M. ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 25:51 Minutes ; 6:25 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/da72ea754a74362c1913594f9f88b0cc.mp3 089c47ef19e54958e11e3bc3a885bcc0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fawcett, Beccye Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-01-05 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:55 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55904">Interview with Mrs. Beccye Fawcett</a> Subject LCSH Fawcett, Beccye -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; New Orleans (La.); New Orleans University; Key West (Fla.); Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Underground Railroad; Race discrimination; Binghamton Public Library; Trinity M.E. Zion Church Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Beccye Fawcett Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 5 January 1978 Dan: OK, now, Mrs. Fawcett, why don't you relate your life experiences from the time that you were born up until the present date? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, the daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Herbert Boyd Sr. I received my education in the public, early public education in the public schools of New Orleans. I graduated with a major in Education from New Orleans University. I married the late Reverend A. Luther Lightford, and he was assigned to the ministry of a church in Key West, Florida. We went there, he served as the spiritual leader of the church—I taught school for two and a half years. He was then transferred to the parish here in Binghamton, NY. His ministry here was rather short-lived in that he died after a year and a half of service. I was then ordained a local preacher to carry on the work which he had begun. I served the church from October 1933 to June 1934. In June of 1935, I took the Civil Service Examination for a worker in the Binghamton Public Library. I was the first Black person to take the examination and to be appointed by the City as a worker in one of the City departments. It wasn't easy even though, ah, I was here in Binghamton in the North. I ran into quite a bit of prejudice, quite a bit of discrimination, sometimes very disheartening. Ah, I remember so vividly, ah, the first check that I received after two weeks of work. I knew it wasn’t in keeping with the salary set by the Civil Service Commission, and when I received it I went into the secretary’s office and said to her rather meekly, because back in ’35, you had to speak meekly, believe it or not, even though you were in the North, and ah, I said, "I think something is wrong with my check," and she said, "Well I have nothing to do with it, you will have to speak with the librarian.”  So, believe it or not, I stood around trying to get to the librarian. When she came in—she was out to lunch, probably, but before I could get to her, the secretary had already gotten in to her, and she said to the secretary, “Well tell her she can take it or leave it—she doesn't have to stay." It was quite a blow to me, it was quite a shock. I went down to the Ladies’ Room—I shed bitter tears over such cruelty, over such a reaction, and I said, “Lord, should I stay, should I leave?" He answered me and said, "Stay, because if you leave, the feeling that exists will be there will never be another Black person employed in the Binghamton Public Library.” So, with all the courage that I had, I went to her, the secretary, and I said, "I am staying now," and I did, and in July of 1974, I finished 36 years of working as a servant of the public and community. I, ah, would like to make a quote because I think it is so apropos of the struggle that I had, and this quote is from a letter that I received from Mr. M. Charles Miller on July 2, 1974 when I was, ah, retiring, and he said, and I quote, "You overcame handicaps and finished your career with a significant position on the staff. In so doing, you not only served the library but you served the Black community as proof its members could and would take their places as leaders and doers in the fabric of our Social, Educational and Economic society," unquote. I have seen many, many changes in our community. I recall when the first Black girl tried to get into the school system. She went into the Superintendent’s office—spoke to his receptionist, who said to her, “The Superintendent is in a conference and you’d have to wait," and so she did. She waited all morning—she went out to lunch—she came back—she waited all afternoon—she left when the office closed. She went back the second day, same thing happened. She went back the third day and they decided this girl is determined, and so the Superintendent saw her. She was then employed and became the first Black woman to become a member of the Board of Education. She is still a member. That was back around in the early forties and she has served the school system well. But times have changed—today, I don't know the exact number of black teachers but it is quite a considerable number of teachers in the system. In 1954, when the New York State Commission came into being, of which I am a charter member, the pattern of thinking, ah, the community thinking was a bit changed, because up until that time, there was only one Black person employed at IBM, one at E.J. Shoe Factory, and this one was there because his great grandfather had worked for the Johnson family as a butler, so they kept him on as a token of appreciation of what his grandfather had done for the family. But all of that has changed now, ah, all of the industries and out of Broome County are employing large numbers of Black people. If you are capable, if you have the qualifications, if you have the training, I am very happy to say that today, 1978, Black people can find the job, the position wherever there is an opening that they meet the qualifications, and ah, I think of the housing situation—I remember very well that before the Urban League and the NAACP came into being into our community, I was one of the lone voices crying in the wilderness for people to open their hearts and, as Christians, to make way for Black people to live and to have decent places to live. Today, if a Black person has the money, he can buy and live anyplace in Broome County. And so, ah, through the 47 years I have seen so many changes, not only economic, educational, social, that you can barely think in terms that 40 years ago a Black person was as much discriminated against here in Binghamton as he was in the deep South. As a child growing up I frankly didn't, ah, encounter any discrimination. We lived in a mixed neighborhood. We were probably considered a middle-class family—my mother never worked outside of the home—she stayed in near her family. My father was the breadwinner of the family—he was an accomplished blacksmith and at that time horses and wagons and all were in style. So as a child, I grew up in a very well rounded Christian family. And so through my life, I have, after coming to Binghamton, experienced more discrimination and more segregation than I did as a child in New Orleans. Dan: Is that right? Now you speak of more segregation—in what respect? Down south were you not restricted to where you could ride on the bus, and etc.? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes. Dan: You know, in the public restrooms. Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes. Dan: Which you didn’t find up here. Mrs. Fawcett: Well no, we didn't find it here to a degree—it was more subtle. For instance, ah, you could get on the bus here in Binghamton and get your seat and you could ride all over the city, and no one, not a white person, would come and take the seat next to you, so you rode there alone, and, ah, Black people have a certain sense that they know when someone is deliberately discriminating against them. And, ah, so in the South there were signs saying “White People,” “Negroes Only,” “White People Only.” You saw those signs so you knew this is where you go, but here there were no signs, but you knew that they didn't want you. Dan: The inference was there. Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right, that’s right, and ah, even in restaurants, you probably could go in but if you didn't check, ah, make a very close check on the bill when it was handed to you, ah, you .would find that it had been upped—increased so that, ah, you realized, “I'm not going there, because on their bill of fare it was so much, but when I get my check, it’s a different price.” Those subtle ways of saying. Dan: At the time that you first got your paycheck, you said there was discrimination as far as the amount? Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right. Dan: Now wasn’t there a Labor Board or anybody that you could go to to complain rather than to your immediate supervisor? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah no, there was no Labor Board, and ah, I might clarify that, ah, in those years, the City fathers would make out a large check covering all of the expenses for the year of the Libraries—the book sales, the equipment and the supplies, the salaries, and then the librarian and the Board could sit down and say who’s going to get what and how much, and that is what happened in my case. And it wasn't ’til a year later, when I felt that I was on a little more solid ground, that I went in and spoke to the librarian and I told her that I had worked a whole year without receiving the salary that the Civil Service job called for, and she said "I don't think that was right," and I said, “Well, you have your canceled checks, though,” and I said, “I am going to go to the Civil Service Commission and find out why I am not receiving what I am supposed to get,” and she became very much upset and she said, ''Oh please don't do that, don't do that, ah, we will see that this is corrected.” Well then the following year, ’36 or ’37, I was then, my salary was then put on the basis for which the job called for according to the Civil Service. Dan: Were you ever paid retroactive to this? Mrs. Fawcett: I never was. Dan: Never paid retroactively? Mrs. Fawcett: There was a time when I thought, well, maybe I should, and then I said, No, ah, it would just merely create a feeling and a lot of unfavorable publicity, ah, for the library, for the librarian and probably for me. Dan: Now you, ah, when you retired, what position did you hold as far as the library? Mrs. Fawcett: I, ah, was principal clerk and head of the overdue department with a full-time assistant and two part-time assistants. Dan: This is the Binghamton Public Library? Mrs. Fawcett: This is in the Binghamton Public Library. Dan: Now going back to when you first came here, Mrs. Fawcett, you said your husband was—took a parish here in the city? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: But he only lived for a year and a half. Mrs. Fawcett: A year and a half. Dan: What church was he— Mrs. Fawcett: That was the Trinity M.E. Zion Church. At that time it was located on Sherman Place over in the 7th Ward, it has since moved in to the 1st Ward at Oak and Lydia. Dan: And he only lived a year and a half. Mrs. Fawcett: A year and a half, and ah, he had begun such a fine work in the community until he must have felt I was capable of carrying on his work until the end of his conference year, which was in June and, ah, which I did. Of course I had studied for the ministry. Dan: You were ordained to the ministry yourself? Mrs. Fawcett: I was ordained as a minister to carry on, and when we went to conference, the Bishop of the conference decided that there were other things that I could do and that he would send a man here. In the meantime I had taken the examination, ah, for the, this job in the Library, and so in leaving the church I went into this program. But my experience has been, and it probably still exists today, a Black person going into any new job or being the first one in that job, still has butterflies—still seems to be concerned as to whether he will be received appreciatively. Dan: Well do you think it is because of the color of their skin or their education? Mrs. Fawcett: It is definitely because he is a Black person. Dan: You have had, ah, a very sound background, educational background—you’re going to school and everything—more so than the average, I think today you will agree, no matter where you go, you could go right in and get a job. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh yeah. Dan: With your educational background. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: Whereas, ah, today of course things have changed. I mean that, ah, you are not required to have as much educational background. At the same time whereas the more you have the more opportunities prevail—the chances of getting a position, but ah, you certainly had a very—you were well educated before you came north. Now did you ever have any children, Mrs. Fawcett? Mrs. Fawcett: No, no children. Dan: No children—that’s too bad. Of course you were only married—how long were you married? Mrs. Fawcett: Well I remarried, now. Dan: You're remarried? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, we were married, ah, a year and a half, and we were in Key West, Florida, two years and a half. We were married around 4-5 years when he passed, and then I remained a widow until 1941, when I married my beloved husband Claude, and he was in the Service at that time, and ah, speaking of that, it reminds me of the attitude of people right here in Binghamton in 1941, when it was, ah, publicized in the, ah, newspapers that a troop of Black soldiers would be stationed at the Armory here, ah, on Washington Street, and the reverberations, the newspapers and the statements of the people and, ah, they just did not want a Black troop here, that it was going to destroy the community. Now these men were serving their country—they were in the Army to serve their country but there was quite, ah, quite, ah, disgusting to say the least of feelings among the white community, but they came, they proved themselves. Dan: Well I know when I was inducted—ah, not when I was inducted, but when I took my basic training—I think Dr. Dorsay was in at the same time, although I am not personally acquainted with the Doctor, but I knew that he was at the same base as I was—it was at Camp Lee, Virginia. Mrs. Fawcett, are you acquainted at all with, ah, Underground Railroad stations? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, to a degree I am. Dan: I mean, to your knowledge or hearsay. Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes, because you see there is nothing in the history. Now when I did this documentary on Deep Are the Roots, I tried to trace many of the Underground stations in this area and, ah, I know that, ah, out in the town of Maine there was one and at the Gonzales home, and after doing much research through the library, I found this home. I contacted the Gonzales, and when WBNG did the shooting of this documentary, ah, most of it was done at her home, and ah, you see so many of, and, and this is going to be interesting because, ah, in the school system, so many of those of the young people do not realize that the Underground Railroad was not a railroad such as we know it. Dan: Not per se. (chuckle). Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right, but it was a sort of follow the drinking holes, ah, when these slaves would escape and, ah, through some way, they travel mostly by night and most of them by streams, and they would always be able to make some contact with some white family who would be on the lookout. Dan: They were more or less places of refuge. Mrs. Fawcett: Places of refuge. Now, ah, Montrose has a large home that was one of the Underground sites and, ah— Dan: Do you know of any in Binghamton? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, I understand that where the old Federal building is, there used to be a building there, a home there on that site that was one time, but this I have never been able to, ah, really make something that would be a fact. Dan: Of course that was quite a few years ago. Mrs. Fawcett: But, ah, I do know that this home in Maine, and from Maine into Lisle, there was one, and Owego there was another, and then into Ithaca, Elmira, and then we went on north into Canada, and you know, it is rather interesting, ah, how the terminology “Underground Railroad” came about. Ah, according to history, ah, in Virginia there was this large slave owner, and this particular day one of these men, a slave, jumped into the river to lead to the other side, and ah, he immediately called the other slaves and some of his help and they got into a boat, and by the time they got to the other side of the river, they searched the ground all around and they couldn’t find this slave, and when he went back, ah, to his plantation, when they said "Did you get him?" and he said, “No, he must have gone underground.” Dan: That’s how the term originated, huh? Mrs. Fawcett: That’s how the term originated. Dan: Now is Mr. Fawcett still living? Mrs. Fawcett: Oh yeah, ah, it’s funny you don't know him, because he was in the catering business here in Binghamton for over 25 years, matter of fact he still does some catering. Dan: Is that right? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, but he is retired from this, ah, to a large degree, but he did catering for some of the finest families, weddings and what have you in this community, Montrose, Ithaca and all around. He is now working for the State at the new State Building. He is the night supervisor of the housekeeping department. He's been there since the building opened. Dan: So most of your time here in Binghamton was spent with the Library. Are you acquainted with Mr. Newcomb, who is a retired librarian from the University? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: You do know him? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: Well that’s fine, he's on vacation right now. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh he is. Dan: And I imagine he will be interested in this interview when he returns. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: He is helping us out with this program. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh, marvelous. Dan: Yeah, so is there anything else you would like to add, Mrs Fawcett? You're affiliated with what church now? Mrs. Fawcett: Trinity M.E. Zion Church. Dan: The same church. Mrs. Fawcett: And, ah, I am a member of the Urban League and NAACP. I am the founder, which I am very proud of, of the Semper Fidelis Women’s Club. And it is the affiliate of the Empire State Federation of Colored and we do a very fine job, communitywise, on all levels of community life. I have received all types of plaques. Last year I was the first Black woman to be honored by the Broome County Statehood of Women, which I am quite proud to receive for my work in the community. Dan: Would you care to tell me how old you are, Mrs. Fawcett? Mrs. Fawcett: I am 74. Dan: 74—that’s wonderful. You've been retired just about two or three years? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, three years. Dan: Three years. Mrs. Fawcett: I retired in 1974. Dan: I see—well that’s fine. Mrs. Fawcett: I thank the Lord I am still active and capable of carrying on. Dan: Well I certainly appreciate your calling us and consenting to this interview, and I've enjoyed it very much. Mrs. Fawcett: Well I've enjoyed doing it. I like to talk of—it’s rather encouraging to see the change that has taken place in our community. Dan: As long as it is a change for the better. Mrs. Fawcett: It is, it definitely is a change for the better. Dan: That’s good. Mrs. Fawcett: Because now people can go about living their lives. Black people can, ah, with a feeling of security with the, what shall I say, with a feeling you are definitely a part of the community structure, and that you're not just something standing on the sidelines waiting to be given a handout, and that is very reassuring to the Black people of the community. Dan: Well that’s wonderful. Mrs. Fawcett: And I might add this, that unlike, ah, most people think, white people in the community think that there is a dense concentration of Black people in the community—there isn't. Ah, the, ah, like to refer to the Susquehanna area and all, but you find as many white people in that area— Dan: Oh yes, definitely. Mrs. Fawcett: —as Black people. Even before they began to move them out, and now Black people are scattered all throughout Broome County, Binghamton, Endicott, Endwell, Vestal. Dan: I remember my grandparents—their first home was down on Tudor Street. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, yes. Dan: In fact years ago, it was Irish and just as many Jews down there. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, because the Rosefakys were there. Dan: Sure, a lot of them originated down there. Mrs. Fawcett: And, ah, the Koffmans moved now, with the Loan Company I believe. Dan: Well I thank you very much, Mrs. Fawcett. Anything you'd like to add before I turn this off? Mrs. Fawcett: No, I think that is about it. Dan: Okay. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Beccye Fawcett Subject The topic of the resource Fawcett, Beccye -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; New Orleans (La.); New Orleans University; Key West (Fla.); Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Underground Railroad; Race discrimination; Binghamton Public Library; Trinity M.E. Zion Church Description An account of the resource Mrs. Fawcett details her life from her upbringing in New Orleans, LA, through her education at the public high school, then getting her degree in education from New Orleans University, to her relocations with her husband, who was a Reverend that worked in New Orleans, then Key West, Fla. and finally in Binghamton, NY, where he passed away. She describes her work for the Trinity M.E.Church and her application to work at the Binghamton Public Library, as well as being the first Black woman to be appointed in one of the city departments. She discusses the discrimination she faced in the workplace and how she stood her ground for equal treatment, as well as the changes in treatment of Black people in the community during her years in Binghamton. She discusses her interest and knowledge of the Underground Railroad. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 20 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fawcett, Beccye ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-05 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:55 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/500ade25491ee66ea64f6a2c83693d96.pdf 06c621f0e5bd0e3b8eb4370e38d95515 PDF Text Text 1\ctio:· 1 for :·11,:cr Pcr:::o:1s, I.1c. :,roo:!2 Cou11tY l:ourt '.'.ou::;...:, :t-,. Court ·.. ou::2 :; <; t,.-irc :'.:.i11�:1;u ;to:-i, : :21: Yo1-':� lJ V)} Tden:rnne: ( :,,)7) 7 :2-12:.il JJ0',.i, i..ISTO?,Y PIWGilA!i Jurinp, t 1e pnst ye2.r, you uere intervi(!\IC:l ::i:1 ?. person froi;i our 0r2l 1.istory �ro:ram, so that a tape recordin: of vour recollections could :.12 :JaJe. ·i:,e t.:J:)CS .1ill be available for ye2rs to cor!e to persons 1.1:10 ,.risil to l,:�Jerst2ncJ Dore about \-':�.:it life \Jas like :Jec:ides af;o. 1 . ·. c .:ire >la:-ini:1: to place t.1esc tape rccordin�s, alone 1. ith ,:Titten tr2;1scri;)ts of ti1�r.,, at ti1e litrary of s·:./f{/�inr.:;h:1,Jton 2nJ at t,1c ::roone Count? i:istorical Society. 1 '.:ould ou \:inclly si:_::n and retu·r:1 to us the authorization forTJJ belo11 so that 1-;e uay do this, and so t,1at ot:1ers T'lay uencfit fro:J :1earin�. t'.1cse iT'lportant recorclinr;s. I'lease enclose t:,is s:1eet of p2per in the return cnv.2lope t:1at 2cco;_1�)anics t!1is letter. TnanJ.: you ap,ain for :;our 1.1illin�:1.css to participate in this rro�ra�.1. ;'c �·:. J :1'"ro2u:· .Juthori:::e i�ction for Older Persons to place t:1e recording of r:iy cunv�rsatiou Ll.:ide unJer the Oral i:istory Procrarn nt local libr.:iries, so that i.t ::10.:' i e listcneG to (or t'.1e transcript read) by persons uis"iin� to !:now ·.,urc o.�,out t.1e i1istory of our area. (Date) tl�� /\_,,; vv "� c-·t 'V�C----0 �� , -:,, ·: ..) �ACTION FOR OLDER PERSONS BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT ABSTRACT Mrs Clara Bell was born in Hawleyton, N. Y. near the Pennsylvania line on a farm in 1888. She was raised in a poor but kind home and mentions the hardships of having parents with failing health. She accepted the Lord at an early age and the church played an important role in her life. Mrs. Bell went through the 10th grade and later attended a business college. pastor of a church. She has a son who is a She had a great desire to become a writer and has and still writes poetry. Mrs. Bell is a resident of the Good Shepphard - Fairview Home where she is happy and secure. �ACTION for Older Persons, Inc. Independent, Membership-based, Non-profit Broome County Court House, Room 307 Court House Square, Binghamton, New York 13901 Telephone (607) 722-1251 BROO:ME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview Transcription Interviewer: Susan Dobandi Address: Date: 5/178 Tape No: 1 295 Front St. Binghamton, N. Y. Person Interviewed: Mrs. Clara Bell Address: Good Sheppard Fairview Home 80 Fairview Ave, Binghamton, N. Y. Date of Birth or approximate age: 90 Mrs. Bell: Could you tell us a where you were born, something about your parents and any work experiences that you've had in the community and any of your recollections of your Childhood? I was born in Hawleyton just this side of the Pennsylvania line the seventh child in the family born to a mother that was really an invalid that shouldn't have born a child at that time and we lived on a farm. I was born in 88 - 1888 and a we were what would be considered poor - OFFICERS Board Members R,·, ,, h \,Hgclft'l Hourt·n 1\\r, llt•\ l'I I\ /\ l\f(l\\ 11 /\ C1·org1• Cub., PrP\/dcnt ,\\r, I l11,1lwth �lut,,,•r V1cP-l'r<•'1rlpn/ 1\\r l<>s1,il1 I Nt'\\!Ornb V1cc-/'reS1<ic111 1\\r, I lor .. 111 ,. ( r.ilt �C'CrC'/ar\ ,\\1 1)011.ild I 1 r(' i hurcr llrm\11 I{,·, w I ( ,1111plwll ,\\r ll1•11r\ I C,1110".1\ ,\\r ll1•rn.ird ( .old" 111 ,\\r R,1lph I l,111 1\\r, lrt•nt• 11.irtung ,\\r, I ''" I !,•,1th R,•, I r,·dt•rn, I lop,,· ,\\r V\ ill.ird I ,1ud .. rh,1! h I{,,, Member. Agency United way i\\r 1\\r Mr RP, 1\\r 1\\r, 1\\r 1\h ,\\r, 1\\r J,11111•, C I 1•1·111•1. J1 VVill1,t111 I 1•1gl11011 I ho111c1.., I I oughlm v\ ,ll1.u11 ,\\ /\It I ,•,111 C h,,rl,•, I i\\urn I ho1n,1, /\\ P,irkhur,t I c1v1o1 rt•ric (') l'oltt.•r. Ir lo,Pph W l'ugl,,, 1\L1uritt' ()u\1111 C,111 RPPdPr C1.. 1111 /\ <;l,1t1•r \r l',HJI I oll,·,011 1\\r, 1\\.iry lo /urnhuhl Execulive Direclor llt-11'011 ll I "h<•r Assistant Director lanl(•, ( l\n•-,n <1h c l11 �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 2 people we really did have hand-me-downs that would help us. One year I had to be kept from school because there wasn't a proper coat - warm coat for me to wear, and but it was a kind home but a very poor home and I think my father and mother tried always to cover up the poorness of it and dwell on the richness of it and there was a heap of richness there when you look over other homes today - and I was a unwanted child and a homely little runt of a child and born to people that had some nice looking children but very early in life I began to feel the conscious�� of God and I hope nobody misunderstands that it's nothing freakish at all but it was the sense of God and the dependence upon him and there was really nothing in the home life that would have made me that way but I was very conscious of it. I still remember the lay of the land and the spring in the pasture lot and to put things every contour of that place. It seemed as though God was in it with me and I think that �e must have known that I needed him so much because I was naturally a sour disposition child and my mother just could not - she could not CJ-- ('(\Q ) I (: (' ..:i, feel towards me and that's w " ·ve and so - love and so that has made me think that perhaps that had something to do with the queer child that I was and a when I - I went to Sunday school with neighbors and wanted to join the church and I told my parents that I - that I wanted to join the church well they told me that there would be a time when I was old enough but the time wasn't yet for me to join so that was alright with me - and I can remember reading the Bib le and the scorn of my eighteen year old brother because I was reading a Bible because of course he had no use for such a thing by the way I did have five sisters \Jr\ L)� and-a one very dear to me like a mother and -a-it was so beautiful that 1 at the time that I joined the church which doesn't mean becoming a �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 3 a Christian at all but it does to many peoples mind but not to mine. My mother had the feeling well if one of her children joined the church and I will say if one of my children accepted the Lord - mother felt that she should and I as a child was so ashamed that I didn't love her and I didn't love her and I had no reason to feel that she loved me but my mother joined the church but my mother became a Christian and if nobody else believes in Christianity I would have to for the change that was in my mother and she and I over and over again have thanked the Lord together that he spared her that time and we had that mother daughter experience. It was beautiful for quite a few years and she mean't so much to me. My people because of father's failing health and mother's of course u� had been we moved to Binghamton when I was sixteen years old and a my a father was a janitor in the school here not able to do that work at all and I fought desperately to get work of some kind. I may have had a foolish pride to be ashamed of but I - I still know the roots of it. I couldn't bring myself to go into one of the shops. It didn't seem as though it belonged some way to me and so there was a twitter twitter well my sister told me that her husband would lend me the money if I wanted it to go through business college so I did and very foolishly which is up to my way of thinking. When the time was up there was no offer made to me to get a job so I just simply left without interviewing the man who was head of the thing at all. Well I - one of the women who had gone through girls with the school �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 4 with me she said if I find a job at all that you can do why she said I will let you know - she did - she found a job in the a - a bookkeeping branch of the shoe factory here and she let me know and at the same time she did my mother said found out that my sister in Deposit her husband was bookkeeper at the Outing Publishing Co. she was ill and my mother said that was my duty to go there and so I went and a then three months Outing moved to New York and a many people went with it but I - I came home vY\ then and a-was engaged to be married at that time and so by - I took in washings to earn the money for I couldn't get a job and my mother was too ill to leave and I was married in April and a in three years and about a half the Lord blessed our home with a little girl who was so very dear and precious to us and we had her for forty-two years but the 'r Lord has taken her home and� she was the wife of a pastor who established a camp in Michigan and then a 10 years afterwards I always said that I'd like to have six little girls but I wouldn't want any boys at all but the Lord sent me a little boy and oh I never knew the treasure that had been witheld from me and I can say it today he will be 58 tomorrow. He has been one of the greatest blessings of my life. He is pastor of a church in Cincinnatus and he has I think that we are compatable let me say. Life looks funny to us at times riduculously so and yet we love the Lord so dearly. ;q Well in my life after my husband died and -a 12 years ago I had - we had a home in Port Dickinson and oh we had a lovely, lovely lot - extra lot and lovely flowers and shrubs I had and I worked until I was too weary to enjoy it and I so I decided to come here to the Fairview Home and one of the greatest blessings that I have found since being here and I have �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 5 found a heap of them is - I am not afraid anymore. there ever was one. I was born a coward if There were breakings in all around me when I was home and there was nothing that gave me that sense of security even though we put on these aluminum screens I thought nobody could get in - well people did get in so I came to Fairview. There is some people that would say they were false in Fairview and a I don't have to acknowledge it so I'm not going too. have found kindness. I have found grea.t-.blessing in this home. I I have broken my hip, fractured my hip and I have broken my wrist and the joint in it and I had to be in the infirmary here which many people say they would rather die than go into the infirmary to the - in the infirmary I found more grand-daughters and they were just so good to me and yet today when I see them there is just that warm�th feeling about it and while I can say that I can see improvements I couldn't be critical because I have been treated so kindly and the Lord is with me and I feel that I am one of the most fortunate people in the world and I praise the Lord for it because he has gone with me through some pretty deep troubled waters but he has always been there and led me out and on and it's good - it's good. the Lord leaving me here. I can't see the advisability of I thought when I came here I would be able to go to the infirmary and help and bless some lives there maybe and I now I don't do any of those things I go with a walker oh once in a while I get down there I love the folks there but I don't see where there is one particle of use of me taking up the place on the earth that I do. I have thought now it's so near the time I would like to wait till I was ninety but after that I don't dare to tell the Lord that I think so I think it's the time for me to be taken because I am a useless person really as far as being a blessing to anybody else oh I wanted to do such things. I wanted to go through college. �1 Mrs. Clara Bell Page 6 I wanted to write and I wanted you see the Lord couldn't trust me with that I'd probably would have gotten very cockey and puffed up and all of that - he had to keep me down - but oh he has been down with me and he has been up with me. The Lord is to be praised. ( Tell us about the poetry that you write. ) About - beg you pardon. ( The poetry) Oh - well that was a was a happy outlet even in my childhood and a - of writing poetry and then in Binghamton I was - oh I had a poem published by Lucia Trent and in her western anthology. dont't know how I ever got the idea of sending there. I There must have been something in my head or something that made me send it and that was accepted which was a real puff to my vanity and there was a write-up in our paper and a picture of me and another woman who had two anthology poems well that had brought me to the notice of our local poetry class that Miss Herrick a retired English teacher at high school was established that and so I went to that and of course I learned a great deal and awaited to write more properly perhaps but it was - it was a great "' 11\ 1i cU pleasure as long as it I think it just disbanded if I rcember or for some reason I had to give it up but it has been a pleasure and a few well the course and the class she sent out our work good deal to colleges in their books or whatever they call them and we had quite a few published in them and then I had I was very fond of Woody Magazine because both of my children went through school and I had two poems there and - and some other places some other mostly Christian magazines they had been but I think that my writing has tended to be along the line of nature very much - very much and it hasn't been anything sumptuous but I shall always feel that if it had been the Lord's will for me �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 7 to have had an education that I could have written for I had the feeling ,n I have the en� and he's blessed me perhaps with an appreciation that they don't all people feel. That's just - just splend�d to see who has - has a written and who has arrived and can do it and so I have been wonderfully blessed by them. ( Could we go back to when you were a 1.itt 1e gir � and see the ch anges in . 1 J"\ . \ the community a as far as transportation the way you were brought up?) We lived 2 miles from the school and we lived up a dirt road and a that was real steep over half of the way there and so that we - when wintertime often times it would be with great difficulty that we would get to school and once in a while we would have a hired man that would come for us �h when it was impossible to get home and -a we - we learned the reading, writing and arithrnatic and I had dear teachers that helped me a in my desire for more. (It was probably a one room schoolhouse wasn't it?) Yes, uh hu and a so that one teacher very kindly offered to stay on in the school and teach 10th grade which she didn't have to do and she did and I was I had my certificate for having passed that and then that is the formal educat ion that this poor soul has had but in heaven I'm going to be one of the smartest women there and we did have a - a yoke of oxen in my childhood and a they were larger than any of the others that I saw at the time - � �� very large red steers I called them red and a but they my a they seemed to adore my father and I think he did them and they'd be so obedient to him but he would leave me to - to ride them - to sit by them while he went for an errand or to get a drink and I would be so frightened I can �Mrs. Clara Bell Page 8 fee1 it yet those great oxen would no more of paid attention to that peeping weening voice and anything under the sun and most of our neighbors 1L I think had more of the worlds goods than we did but I do think much of our I can't say poverty because we were not poverty people at all because there was too much within and people coming and living in our home and coming - coming to us so much but - - - - - there was peace and goodness and joy in our home and I lost my train of thought that I was on and that's what 90 years old does to you. ( Well, you're doing very well. ) vh ,J And� so that a we had - we had such a desire for a what they call a II\ platform wagon that was a good size larger than a carriage and-a but we never had the money to get it so if we had to be a need for something like that we had to use a lumber wagon and a I tnow that a ride in that lumber wagon and look down on those horses scar�ed the liver right out of me as a kid. It seemed as thdgh I was up as high as heaven and they were elephants or something and a that was the way we were then and finally my people were able to get a horse one horse and in time my brother came back home and they got two more horses, and things moved more swiftly but not better - not better at all I think it was a leadCJ re of r 1 .,, ' 1 -1 . '' ing of what was coming to town and my brother-inlaws got a gramaphone /\ gramaphone I think it was called. Oh we just swarmed that 11ouse every night we'd go and we were so thrilled with that it was so wonderful and then another brother became affluent enough to a buy a Ford car and that was just - just immense to us. In - I was - I had been a member of Calvary Church for nearly 60 years and through those years from the �o time I was 16 until oh maybe - maybe I better say 10 years or-m0-Fe I �Mrs Clara Bell Page 9 don't think it was that long I taught Sunday school and from every grade I even caught - taught a college choir - class ignorant as I onward. am and enjoyed them and a there was so many things in the church you can do and love to do and people to love and I - that was a dear church and is a dear church but there in difference in the church I was in things progress. I learn everything progresses but old women 90 years old they don't progress but it's good - it's good. regret. I have no feeling of I had such a desire to be good looking and I was such a homely child and always had been and I had some beautiful sisters b�t it just didn't happen to mother the seventh child they tell about as favorite but this one wasn't much in health and to think - to think I had so much to thwart my growing up and my strength and I'm the only one of those other children who are living and the husbands and wives are gone too. Even now the nieces and nephews are going some an still the Lord is having me stay on here. must be. I would never quite dare to ask him Lord please take me out of my body and take me home. to do. It's his will and his will is good I just don't quite think it's the thing He has got the program he knows and it's very wise that he doesn't let us know. ( No, it would be very difficult to get through from one day to the next if we knew what was ahead of us. ) It surely would - it surely would I do pray the Lord if it's his will that I shall never have any more broken bones. They are difficult in a way but you know the way the Lord went with me through those hard yeilds is just unbelieve able and even now this sounds boastful too dear but this is the Lord iht, I'm boasting in the when I was in this insumary- infirmary the - the nurses did praise the progress that I made they thought it was �l. .. Mrs. Clara Bell Page 10 remarkable and a once in a while a dear one just doesn't try and that is too bad. - - - - ( Well thank you very much Mrs. Bell for taking the time to talk with us is there anything more that you would like to add to this interview? ) No, I don't think so only if I may add this I wish that everyone who might ever hear this would love the lord and depend on him as much as he's caused me to depend on him. ( Thank you. ) � https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/50a3a941c5076b4b54f360d0cd5e4de4.mp3 89d809b026880d5cddb53ce3ae68a231 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9884896bf5ee8132e0143ba7f0948428.mp3 89d809b026880d5cddb53ce3ae68a231 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bell, Clara Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-05-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:32 minutes Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Subject LCSH Bell, Clara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Authors -- Interviews; Hawleyton (N.Y.); Cavalry Church; Poetry Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55362">Interview with Mrs. Clara Bell</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Clara Bell Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 1 May 1978 Susan: Mrs. Bell, could you tell us, ah, where you were born, something about your parents, and any work experiences that you've had in the community, and any of your recollections of your childhood? Mrs. Bell: I was born in Hawleyton, just this side of the Pennsylvania line, the seventh child in the family, born to a mother that was really an invalid that shouldn't have borne a child at that time, and we lived on a farm. I was born in ’88—1888, and ah, we were what would be considered poor—people, we really did have hand-me-downs that would help us. One year I had to be kept from school because there wasn't a proper coat, warm coat, for me to wear, and but, it was a kind home but a very poor home, and I think my father and mother tried always to cover up the poorness of it and dwell on the richness of it, and there was a heap of richness there, when you look over other homes today. And I was a unwanted child and a homely little runt of a child and born to people that had some nice-looking children, but very early in life I began to feel the consciousness of God, and I hope nobody misunderstands that, it's nothing freakish at all, but it was the sense of God and the dependence upon Him, and there was really nothing in the home life that would have made me that way, but I was very conscious of it. I still remember the lay of the land and the spring in the pasture lot and to put things, every contour of that place. It seemed as though God was in it with me, and I think that He must have known that I needed Him so much, because I was naturally a sour disposition child and my mother just could not—she could not feel towards me, and that's a mother’s life, and so—love, and so that has made me think that perhaps that had something to do with the queer child that I was, and ah, when I—I went to Sunday school with neighbors and wanted to join the church, and I told my parents that I—that I wanted to join the church, well, they told me that there would be a time when I was old enough but the time wasn't yet for me to join, so that was all right with me—and I can remember reading the Bible and the scorn of my eighteen-year-old brother because I was reading a Bible, because of course he had no use for such a thing. By the way, I did have five sisters and, uh, one very dear to me like a mother and, uh, it was so beautiful that at the time that I joined the church, which doesn't mean becoming a, a Christian at all, but it does to many people’s mind, but not to mine. My mother had the feeling, well, if one of her children joined the church, and I will say if one of my children accepted the Lord—Mother felt that she should, and I as a child was so ashamed that I didn't love her, and I didn't love her and I had no reason to feel that she loved me, but my mother joined the church, but my mother became a Christian, and if nobody else believes in Christianity I would have to for the change that was in my mother, and she and I, over and over again, have thanked the Lord together that he spared her that time and we had that mother-daughter experience. It was beautiful for quite a few years and she meant so much to me. My people—because of father's failing health, and mother's, of course—had been, we moved to Binghamton when I was sixteen years old and, ah, my, ah, father was a janitor in the school here, not able to do that work at all, and I fought desperately to get work of some kind. I may have had a foolish pride to be ashamed of, but I—I still know the roots of it. I couldn't bring myself to go into one of the shops. It didn't seem as though it belonged some way to me, and so there was a twitter-twitter—well, my sister told me that her husband would lend me the money, if I wanted it, to go through business college, so I did, and very foolishly, which is up to my way of thinking. When the time was up there was no offer made to me to get a job, so I just simply left without interviewing the man who was head of the thing at all. Well I—one of the women who had gone through girls with the school with me, she said, “If I find a job at all that you can do,” why, she said, “I will let you know.” She did—she found a job in the, ah—ah, bookkeeping branch of the shoe factory here and she let me know, and at the same time she did, my mother said, found out that my sister in Deposit—her husband was bookkeeper at the Outing Publishing Company—she was ill, and my mother said that was my duty to go there and so I went and, ah, then in three months Outing moved to New York and, ah, many people went with it, but I—I came home then and, ah—was engaged to be married at that time, and so by—I took in washings to earn the money for I couldn't get a job and my mother was too ill to leave, and I was married in April and, ah, in three years and about a half, the Lord blessed our home with a little girl who was so very dear and precious to us, and we had her for forty-two years but the Lord has taken her home, and she was the wife of a pastor who established a camp in Michigan, and then, ah, ten years afterwards, I always said that I'd like to have six little girls but I wouldn't want any boys at all, but the Lord sent me a little boy, and oh, I never knew the treasure that had been withheld from me, and I can say it today, he will be fifty-eight tomorrow. He has been one of the greatest blessings of my life. He is pastor of a church in Cincinnatus and he has—I think that we are compatible, let me say. Life looks funny to us, at times ridiculously so, and yet we love the Lord so dearly. Well in my life, after my husband died and, ah, twelve years ago I had—we had a home in Port Dickinson, and oh, we had a lovely, lovely lot—extra lot, and lovely flowers and shrubs, I had, and I worked until I was too weary to enjoy it and I so I decided to come here to the Fairview Home, and one of the greatest blessings that I have found since being here, and I have found a heap of them, is: I am not afraid anymore. I was born a coward if there ever was one. There were breakings-in all around me when I was home and there was nothing that gave me that sense of security, even though we put on these aluminum screens, I thought nobody could get in—well, people did get in, so I came to Fairview. There is some people that would say they were false in Fairview and, ah, I don't have to acknowledge it so I'm not going too. I have found great blessing in this home. I have found kindness. I have broken my hip, fractured my hip, and I have broken my wrist and the joint in it and I had to be in the infirmary here, which, many people say they would rather die than go into the infirmary, into the—in the infirmary I found more granddaughters and they were just so good to me, and yet today when I see them, there is just that warmth feeling about it, and while I can say that I can see improvements, I couldn't be critical because I have been treated so kindly and the Lord is with me, and I feel that I am one of the most fortunate people in the world and I praise the Lord for it, because he has gone with me through some pretty deep troubled waters, but He has always been there and led me out and on and it's good—it's good. I can't see the advisability of the Lord leaving me here. I thought when I came here I would be able to go to the infirmary and help and bless some lives there, maybe, and I, now I don't do any of those things, I go with a walker, oh, once in a while I get down there, I love the folks there, but I don't see where there is one particle of use of me taking up the place on the earth that I do. I have thought, now it's so near the time, I would like to wait ’til I was ninety, but after that I don't dare to tell the Lord that I think so, I think it's the time for me to be taken, because I am a useless person, really, as far as being a blessing to anybody else—oh, I wanted to do such things. I wanted to go through college. I wanted to write and I wanted—you see, the Lord couldn't trust me with that—I probably would have gotten very cocky and puffed up and all of that—he had to keep me down—but oh, He has been down with me and He has been up with me. The Lord is to be praised. Susan: Tell us about the poetry that you write. Mrs. Bell: About—beg your pardon? Susan: The poetry. Mrs. Bell: Oh—well, that was a was a happy outlet even in my childhood, and ah—of writing poetry—and then in Binghamton I was—oh, I had a poem published by Lucia Trent and in her western anthology. I don't know how I ever got the idea of sending there. There must have been something in my head or something that made me send it, and that was accepted, which was a real puff to my vanity, and there was a write-up in our paper and a picture of me and another woman who had two anthology poems, well, that had brought me to the notice of our local poetry class that Miss Herrick, a retired English teacher at high school, was established that, and so I went to that and of course I learned a great deal and awaited to write more properly, perhaps, but it was—it was a great pleasure as long as it—I think it just disbanded if I remember, or for some reason I had to give it up, but it has been a pleasure and a few, well, the course and the class, she sent out our work a good deal to colleges, in their books or whatever they call them, and we had quite a few published in them and then I had, I was very fond of Woody Magazine because both of my children went through school, and I had two poems there and—and some other places, some other, mostly Christian magazines they had been, but I think that my writing has tended to be along the line of nature very much—very much and it hasn't been anything sumptuous, but I shall always feel that if it had been the Lord's will for me to have had an education that I could have written for, I had the feeling I have the in and He's blessed me, perhaps, with an appreciation that they don't all people feel. That's just—just splendid to see who has—has, ah, written and who has arrived and can do it, and so I have been wonderfully blessed by them. Susan: Could we go back to when you were a little girl, uh, and see the changes in the community, uh, as far as transportation, the way you were brought up? Mrs. Bell: We lived two miles from the school and we lived up a dirt road and, ah, that was real steep over half of the way there and, so that we—when wintertime, often times it would be with great difficulty that we would get to school, and once in a while we would have a hired man that would come for us when it was impossible to get home, and—ah, we—we learned the reading, writing, and arithmetic, and I had dear teachers that helped me, ah, in my desire for more. Susan: It was probably a one room schoolhouse, wasn't it? Mrs. Bell: Yes, uh huh, and, ah, so that one teacher very kindly offered to stay on in the school and teach tenth grade, which she didn't have to do, and she did and I was, I had my certificate for having passed that, and then that is the formal education that this poor soul has had, but in Heaven I'm going to be one of the smartest women there, and we did have a—a yoke of oxen in my childhood and, ah, they were larger than any of the others that I saw at the time—very large red steers, I called them red and, ah, but they, my, ah, they seemed to adore my father, and I think he did them, and they'd be so obedient to him, but he would leave me to—to ride them—to sit by them while he went for an errand or to get a drink, and I would be so frightened I can feel it yet, those great oxen would no more have paid attention to that peeping weaning voice than anything under the sun, and most of our neighbors, I think, had more of this world’s goods than we did, but I do think much of our—I can't say “poverty,” because we were not poverty people at all, because there was too much within and people coming and living in our home and coming—coming to us so much, but—there was peace and goodness and joy in our home, and I lost my train of thought that I was on, and that's what ninety years old does to you. Susan: Well, you're doing very well. Mrs. Bell: And, ah, so that, ah, we had—we had such a desire for a, what they call a platform wagon, that was a good size larger than a carriage and, ah, but we never had the money to get it, so if we had to be, a need for something like that, we had to use a lumber wagon and, ah, I know that a ride in that lumber wagon and look down on those horses scared the liver right out of me as a kid. It seemed as though I was up as high as Heaven and they were elephants or something, and ah, that was the way we were then, and finally my people were able to get a horse, one horse, and in time my brother came back home and they got two more horses, and things moved more swiftly, but not better—not better at all, I think it was a leading of what was coming to town, and my brother-in-laws got a gramophone—gramophone, I think it was called. Oh, we just swarmed that house, every night we'd go, and we were so thrilled with that, it was so wonderful, and then another brother became affluent enough to, ah, buy a Ford car and that was just—just immense to us. In—I was—I had been a member of Calvary Church for nearly sixty years and through those years from the time I was sixteen until, oh, maybe—maybe I better say ten years ago, don't think it was that long—I taught Sunday school and from every grade onward. I even caught—taught a college choir—class, ignorant as I am, and enjoyed them, and ah, there was so many things in the church you can do and love to do and people to love, and I—that was a dear church and is a dear church, but there is difference in the church I was in, things progress. I learn, everything progresses, but old women, ninety years old, they don't progress, but it's good—it's good. I have no feeling of regret. I had such a desire to be good looking, and I was such a homely child and always had been, and I had some beautiful sisters but it just didn't happen to Mother, the seventh child they tell about as favorite, but this one wasn't much in health, and to think—to think I had so much to thwart my growing up and my strength, and I'm the only one of those other children who are living, and the husbands and wives are gone too. Even now the nieces and nephews are going, some, and still the Lord is having me stay on here. It's His will and His will is good, must be. I would never quite dare to ask him, “Lord, please take me out of my body and take me home.” I just don't quite think it's the thing to do. He has got the program He knows and it's very wise that He doesn't let us know. Susan: No, it would be very difficult to get through from one day to the next if we knew what was ahead of us. Mrs. Bell: It surely would—it surely would. I do pray to the Lord, if it's His will, that I shall never have any more broken bones. They are difficult in a way, but you know, the way the Lord went with me through those hard yields is just unbelievable, and even now this sounds boastful, too, dear, but this is the Lord I'm boasting—in the, when I was in this insumary [sic]—infirmary, the—the nurses did praise the progress that I made, they thought it was remarkable and, ah, once in a while a dear one just doesn't try, and that is too bad. Susan: Well thank you very much, Mrs. Bell, for taking the time to talk with us. Is there anything more that you would like to add to this interview? Mrs: Bell: No, I don't think so. Only if I may add this—I wish that everyone who might ever hear this would love the Lord and depend on Him as much as He's caused me to depend on Him. Susan: Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Clara Bell Subject The topic of the resource Bell, Clara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Authors -- Interviews; Hawleyton (N.Y.); Cavalry Church; Poetry Description An account of the resource Clara Bell talks about her childhood growing up in Hawleyton, NY on a farm with her family. She discusses the hardship of her parents' declining health and the importance of the church in her life, as well as her experience in college and desire to become a writer and poet. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 2 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bell, Clara ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:32 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5a7ca79f6c28232519f43ea9ff3a60ea.mp3 2222f151915507ddbafbde6a29b56bcd https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fbba950c6bb0ca2b022b79349df76a43.mp3 b2654f72c2f3b97491557a5b0dc4fcb6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fenson, Mary Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-04-25 ; 1978-06-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55907">Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck)</a> Subject LCSH Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Interview with: Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Dates of Interviews: 25 April 1978 and 20 June 1978 [Interview #1: 25 April 1978] Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Mrs. Simon Fenson, 2121 Farm to Market Road, RD#2, Johnson City, NY, on Apr. 25, 1978. Mrs. Fenson, will you start telling me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting with your date and place of birth? OK—start. Mary: What shall I say? Nettie: Start—where you came from. Mary: I come from Austria. I was 16 years old. I come to this country 1906—September 28. My father was here. They take me to factory, then I got a job up there—then I work in a cotton mill. Nettie: When you came from Austria—where did you go first? What city or town did you go first? Mary: Oh, I come on the town called Crampton, but now they don't call that Crampton—they call it Warwick—but before, they call it Crampton, Rhode Island. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: I go to factory, I make—I work in machine, made thread—they call it spinning. Nettie: Do you remember how did the job—the procedure of the job? Mary: My father go and ask the boss, and they don't wanna take me in because I was still very young. I had to wait two months before I was the age of 16, then they took me in the factory to work. I worked on the machine, where they made thread—thread—that's all. Nettie: How did you make this thread? Mary: The machine did the work—the machine did the work— Nettie: Did you have to feed it? Mary: You have to take one thread and another thread and feed it into the machine—and out of the two twined together makes the one strand of thread. This is called a spinning machine. Nettie: After you left Rhode Island, did you come here? Mary: No, jobs were scarce, pretty strict, my husband had a friend in Taunton, Mass. He went there for a visit and they suggested he come here. There is work here. So, we went there—true, he got a job—and I got a job—all was pretty good. Nettie: Where was this? In Endicott? Mary: No, no, no—Taunton, Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Nettie: What did you do in Massachusetts? The same thing? Mary: Same thing, same thing—just a different company—same thing, same job on the machine. Let's see—and then we stayed there a long time. My husband got a job—was not the greatest job—just holding on—later on he got a job in the silk factory, he was an inspector looking over silk cloth and I was still working. Later, I had an uncle living in Binghamton. My uncle had written me a letter and told me to come to Binghamton—as “Here, we have the EJ factories, lots of people are working here and getting overtime pay. Come here.” We quit our job and came to Binghamton.  Nettie: What did you do? Did you work for EJ, too? Mary: No, I couldn't work - just my husband worked. I was looking for a job but couldn't find one—because—don't need it. I work in Dunn McCarthy five weeks. Nettie: Where? Mary: Dunn McCarthy. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: Oh—when they were wearing shoes with the buckle on the side—I sewed the tongues onto the back. I worked 5 weeks but could not work any longer as our daughter was—let's see, about 6 years old and was about to enter school. We did not find living quarters so my husband bought a house. I had to stay at home—I was at home. We lived in this house—I cannot how long—I guess, from ’17 up to 1920. Then later, we traded the house for a farm. Nettie: Where's the farm located? Mary: Right over here. Nettie: What's this street? Mary: Oh—just next door! Nettie: What is your address? Mary: R.D. #2, Johnson City! Nettie: OK. Mary: Yeah, from 1920 we came on this farm, we were poor—hard life—dilapidated farm—ah little by little—my husband was working in the factory—there there wasn't much work so he had to quit—decided we would farm—he didn't know anything about farming and I didn't understand farming, but we were young so we figured we would get along. Nettie: You would learn. Mary: Yeah. I was in town occasionally and saw every once in a while, a farmer would come into town with his horse and wagon and bring in the different things to sell. I was thinking, I, too, will try—take the horse and wagon downtown and sell something, also. We owned three cows—so, I made cheese, butter and took it with me. Many customers bought these from me. One time, ah—people bought from me but few paid for it. Times were bad—we were poor—no money coming in from anywhere. Once as I was out delivering butter, cheese—I do not know the name of the street at this time—I was about to deliver some butter to a customer—to one of the Polish ladies—when this man, an insurance man named Bay—I didn't know his first name but last name was Bay, a John Hancock Insurance man—stopped me and asked, “Housewife, how is business?" (Laughing.) “Business is good—people are buying but nobody is paying anything.” Nettie: Free. Mary: Yes, they buy my cheese and butter but make—tell me will pay next week as now I have the electrical bill, all kind of excuses not to pay me. He told me, "Stish, why do you go and knock on doors to sell your wares? Why don't you go to the Johnson City Public Market?" Bay, I have never heard of that market—never had. He said, "Listen, I'll make a map for you." So he proceeded to take out his little book and on a piece of paper he drew a map with directions to get to the market. He said at the market people come to you, buy your wares and pay cash. I thanked him so next week not to go to my house customers, as I'll not receive any money, anyway. That night, I was telling my husband—the next week I will not go to my cheese and butter customers as Mr. Bay told me to go to the market—Johnson City Public Market. My husband replied, "Oh, you are foolish to listen to people—you got good customers—take care of them." I said, "What good are they? I never get paid for my labor—that's the business!” (Laughing.) Also, it just happened I was so fortunate to have a large crop of peas, such beautiful peas, that I picked two bushels, took along cheese, butter, etc., and was on my way to the market with my horse and wagon. I had no idea where I was going. I looked over the directions on Mr. Bay's map—up to Broad Street, Johnson City, straight through the tracks until I hit Main Street, Johnson City—there, directions continue—to ask someone for further directions to Johnson City Public Market. I rode, sure, as he instructed, not to Broad Street but Main Street—there I came upon a green light and stopped, not knowing which way to turn. A policeman across the road hollered for me to go on. I waved "No"—I really could not speak much of English. He came up to me and asked me, "What is the trouble? Why don't you go on?" I told him I didn't know where to go. He asked again, "Where are you going?" I said, "Johnson City Market." He then proceeded to tell me to go straight to the light—turn right—go a quarter block and then you will see the market. I did as he told me—arrived there—knowing it was the market when I saw the horses and wagons, as at that time we had no trucks or cars. I arrived at the front—seeing all the people—was a bit flustered—not knowing where to park my horse and wagon—as it was, here came Mr. Patterson, manager of market—he said, "Welcome, welcome new producer!" I didn't know what to tell him. He said, "Turn the horse around this way."  I said, "I can't, I don't know how." He said, "All right, you sit and I'll turn the horse around." I got down and waited. After taking care of the horse, he glanced at my wares and said, "Good! Good! Good!" Again, he asked, "Do you know how to sell?"  I said, "No." (Laughing.) He was very obliging—says, "Good.” He took some tags from his pocket—saw my peas and came around with a quart basket—says, "This basket is 18¢ a basket or 2/35¢.” All right, when I started selling—by Gosh! I couldn't believe the people at my stall—buying my wares—I couldn't keep up with all the customers—I didn't have to have bags as the people paid for my peas and told me to dump my peas into a basket they carried on their arm. I sold everything. The manager approached me and said, "Come again next week." "Good," I said, "I'll be back." I came back every week—brought anything I had to sell, and everything went and I received cash! I looked around and saw what people were selling to give me ideas. I just couldn't get over it—anything I brought in, it was sold for cash—nothing trust! I raised vegetables—vegetables, very little profit—yeah—too much work and not much good of it. I had vegetables like carrots, onions, beets, etc., on a bench—but being outdoors, they wilted in the sun. One summer day, a lady of 65 or more, who had a stall nearby came to chat with me. As we were talking, she pointed to my vegetables and said, "Lady, you had beautiful vegetables there but now they are wilted—people will not buy wilted vegetables.”  I answered, "What should I do?" "Forget the vegetables," she advised, "why don't you raise flowers?"  I replied, "Flowers! Who needs flowers?" I didn't believe her—she continued telling me that anyone who owned a home and had a small plot of land in back, they always grew vegetables for their own use, but flowers, they have no room to plant. If you sell flowers you will have a good business. I don't know how to go about this new venture. The lady proceeded to tell me that as soon as the snow melts in the Spring and the ground is not too wet—plant some sweet peas and they will grow nicely. I did just that. I wanted to buy flower seeds, my husband laughed and said, "Foolish lady, who is going to eat your flowers?"  I told him, “I'll try it.” (Laughing.) I spent one dollar on flower seeds. After a short time, I told my friend, “My sweet peas are growing so beautifully, such beautiful flowers, can't get over that. What shall I do with them? I don't know.” I had, at no time see arrangements of flowers. She replied, "What? Get scissors—cut them and make bouquets." I thought to myself—how do you make bouquets? The next time I went to the market, I cut some flowers, brought them in to the lady friend and again, asked her to show me how to make bouquets. She was very obliging—showed me the how to, and later said, “Use your head, too,” because if you make a beautiful bouquet you will have many sales, but if you just bunch them they will not be appealing and you will not have a sale. I tried the best I could—so, I continued to plant sweet peas—first a quarter pound, later one pound of seeds—I had flowers—but it was a job—especially the cutting and making bouquets. Now, I started to plant other flowers, even planted the flowers my customers requested. I tried. I noticed a seed catalog—I ordered flower seeds and had such a beautiful assortment of flowers. My customers were pleased—I had asters, zinnias, gladiolas, they didn't like the scent of marigolds. The glads—I had so many—but I sure found success with my flower sales. Many people did not believe me that I could earn more money at the market than the lady who works in a factory. I found if you have the will, strength, you can do very well. Nettie: Do you have to pay for your booth? Mary: Oh yes, we had a nice place now, the market was under cover—beautiful, lot of space, clean—we paid $12 a week but it was worth every cent—before that, we had a open market, that was free, then, they paid us $2.00 to come and sell—always reminded us to come back. As I said, after a while, George F. Johnson built a new market—we liked that very much as summer and winter it was a pleasure to be there. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, how did they sell meat? Did they come in with chickens, pigs? Mary: We sold many chickens—we never had less than 100-125 chickens sold on Saturday. We killed and defeathered chickens at home and at the market so dressed them as to customer's choice, whole—cut up—free service. Nettie: How much were chickens at that time? Mary: They were 35 cents—nice young fryers (4-5 pounds) at 48 cents a pound. Nettie: How was the meat business? Mary: I don't know—some brought in half a cow—cut into pieces—oh, yes, there was a Mr. Baxter, he had all kinds of meats—big place with about four people working there—all people lined up to buy—all sold by noon. Another man, Truman, sold lamb and calf. Nettie: Did you know to make change? Did you understand how to do that? Mary: Yes, Mr. Patterson showed me how—asked me where I would put the money and I told him in my pocketbook. He gave me a basket (quart), put a newspaper around—he said, "Don't put your money in pocketbook—put your money right here, because when people come up to you have chance to give change." He show me how, then I did like he showed me. He was a very nice man, nice person—he helped me—everything—he said, "When people buy from you, you have to be very nice to them. Always say, ‘Thank you.’” (Laughing.) He teach me—I don't nothing about anybody. (Laughing.) He said, "When anybody come to you—they buy from you—be very pleased—when you give change back—say, ‘Thank you—come again!’” That's what I did. But it was a nice place. Nettie: Any more interesting stories about the market? Mary: Lots of people come up—they find out market—little by little come up, lots of them. These days they was no cars—1921—they was no cars, everybody come up with team or one horse. Nettie: How did you get down in the winter? By sleigh? Mary: No, I just go with the market wagon—that's all—and wintertime, I go once a week. Nettie: Did you go, yourself or with your husband? Mary: No, he didn't want to go—I went myself. Nettie: You're the businesswoman. Mary: I did, sure! That's the first thing—you know. I say to my man, I say, the next week I go to the market because, I hear Mr. Bay, told me market people pay cash. He said, "Don't fool yourself, you got steady customers.” Yeah—those steady customers take everything but they got—nobody pay me a nickel. Well, I went like Mr. Bay told me, my man was so mad he no want to put—he no want to hook the horse to wagon. He put harness in—horse was a big one—I was short—I can't put harness—he put harness in—he don't want to hook horse to wagon because he said I should not leave my customers—but after that he don't say nothing—little by little— Nettie: He saw you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Yes, he find out I don't do nothing wrong. I know this Bay, he don't want me to go—I sell my peas—and for what I got them—I got the cash—I got $16—see, $16 I never see in years. I know my man, he was worrying—he got horses—they need—horses, when you go on field work—horses need oats—we had no money to buy oats. When I got this money I go home—farmer store and I stop and I ask the farmer store's man, I say, "Mister, I got one horse but want to buy a little grain for horses, anything I needed—can that not be too heavy for horse to go?" He said, "No." (Laughing). “How much do you want?" I say I want it, at least two bags—that's 200 horse feed. He said, "That's not heavy—at all—he can take a lots more." Then I take it—two bag horse feed, one bag cow feed, and I got myself pork loin, I like that, 12 cents a pound—he sliced for me, this storekeeper, then I pay everything cash and I come home. I got $4 cash—beautiful! Beautiful! When I got home, my man he said, "What you got in those wagon?"  I said, "Why don't you look over." He see, boy, he grabbed the bag—he said have to go on field—the horses don't have nothing to eat. Then afterwards, he don't say nothing to me. You wanna go—go—you wanna—go— Another thing, at old market there was a man from Owego, who sold all dressed chickens. I decided, I wanted to sell chickens, too. The next week I took with me a crate of live chickens—sixteen chickens in a crate. At the market, people went by, looked, said, "Nice chickens. Nice chickens," but were not buying my chickens—so, one of the following days, it was rainy weather and my husband could not work in the fields, told me he was going with me to the market, as company. He helped me bring out my wares plus the crate of live chickens. I am thinking all the time, I have such beautiful chickens, how can I make that chicken dead? (Laughing.) Nobody is buying my chickens. I am still thinking, thinking, and all of sudden, I got an idea. I looked around and saw my man talking, smoking, smoking—with a couple men. I took a market basket—they don't have that kind these days—and it, I put two roosters and a hen. I tied, covered the chickens so my husband would not see them. As I was leaving, I told my husband to take care of my business, and I'll be back soon. He told me to go—but asked "Where are you going?"  I told him I'm going to go on Main Street, but I didn't go on Main Street—I went to Mrs. Philipso. I arrived at Mrs. Philipso's and called, "Hey kuma, put a pot of water on stove." She then replied, "Do you want to take a bath?" (Laughing.) “No, just get a pot of water ready—I have some chickens here I want defeathered.”  She asked, "Who will kill the chickens?"  I replied, "I don't know," but we finally agreed that since both of us cannot do it, we asked the neighbor. She was obliging—"Get me the knife—I'll kill them." Finally the chickens were defeathered and I returned—to the market. I saw my husband as I left him talking with the men—I asked, "Did you sell anything?"  He replied, “No, no one stopped by." Now, I put my dressed chickens on the bench—still out in the open market. Before long, a Slovak couple come by and stopped to look at the chickens and asked if they were fresh—I said, "They are shaking—are warm." The lady answered, "My God, they are warm.” Man answered, "Oh, the sun warmed them." (Laughing.) I convinced them my chickens were fresh, so they bought the largest rooster for baking. I was beginning to worry if we’ll sell all the chickens, but as it was, another couple came along, another person came along, so within thirty minutes my dressed chickens were sold. I figured if they could sell dressed chickens inside the market I could sell outside, on the bench. Before long, the man from Owego—who had the dressed chickens—reported her to the manager—saying, “That lady is taking my business away—get rid of her.” In all fairness, Mr. Patterson replied, "Harry, you take care of yourself and she will take care of herself.” As time went by, my chicken business grew from twenty to thirty chickens every Saturday, also, kept growing to 120-125 chickens—at holiday time I included ducks, geese—at times we had to buy chickens to keep up. Finally, I had such a business, my husband wanted a picking machine but it cost $360—he figured if someone has one I'll have one—so with pieces of wood, metal, he made one of his own which worked beautifully. The chicken business was a lot of work and a lot of fun—so that was our life going to end—35 years at the market—from beginning to the last. Nettie: What was the year of the closing of the market? Mary: 1953. We sold our farm that year, as raising vegetables, chickens, glads were not necessary if I did not have a market to sell them at. When I sold glads—that alone was good money, but instead of selling each flower I made bouquets for $1.00—medium size 50 cents—people bought for cemeteries. I had beautiful flowers that I kept fresh in pails of water—people were standing in line to buy them. My flowers were sold every time but if had a few left, I gave it to people for their church. They were a good profit for me—I remember—year 1939—it was a fantastic year—sold so many chickens—assorted flowers—glads—gladiola sales alone, I made $135—was pretty good. I always kept track of my sales—always sold everything. Nettie: I must say—you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Oh yes. Nettie: How did you learn to be such a terrific businesswoman? Mary: I don't know! I had neighbors, Bobby, June, they grew many things in their garden. I like planting new things. I planted some new things that my neighbor planted. I don't see why I can't have new plantings even though my neighbor has. They asked me, "Where do you get all those things?"  I replied, "Where? In my garden—growing!" I saw different people asking at June's for rhubarb—I didn't want to invest in seeds, at first, so waited, thinking someone will give me some. One day my husband sent me to Union Center to buy seed because he was going to plant oats. I took my horse and wagon—along the way passed a farm that had a beautiful growth of rhubarb. A lady of the house was passing by—I called to her, "Hey, Mrs., I see you got very nice rhubarb." She answered in Slovak, "Oh, that thing—throw it out to the devil." I then asked, "Maybe, you could sell me some because I do not have any." The lady called her husband to dig out a clump. He did, put it in my wagon and told me to separate the roots, as they will grow thick. I had six plantings from that. Later on, I stopped at another farm—they, too, gave me rhubarb. I, sure, had a lot of rhubarb in my garden—by gosh—I had a lot of rhubarb. Boy! Oh boy! They call it strawberry rhubarb—the pink variety. When I saw the different interesting plants or vegetables—I always wanted to have them, too—I feel if I wanted to take the trouble to plant, take care of it—why not? I had everything! I loved to work—in Europe I remember when I was very young—I worked for a few pennies for this landlord—by gosh! Nettie: Did you sell jam at the market? Mary: No, no, no. At the beginning, I sold cookies—sugar cookies. Nettie: Did you bake them? Mary: Yes, you never believe it—25 pounds on Friday—I use everything for sugar cookies—they was 20¢ a dozen. (Laughing.) Honest to God—people stand in line—want a cookie—almost all lady in market, they ask me, "How soon you gonna have the sugar cookie?" That was lots of fun! Nettie: Did you make cakes? Mary: No, just cookies. They was not enough time—because every time our chicks were small—we had the small chicks, that needed attention, you have a little time so you have to work fast—we had the calves, chickens—so we had a lot of work—God knows. Nettie: Did you sell butter and cheese at the market? Mary: Oh—that just from in the beginning—because we had only three cows—we didn't have that much milk. Later, little by little we bought more cows—we had milk—the milkman picked it up—the milk—at beginning we didn't have that much—just enough to make cheese and butter. Oh yes, when I had her [daughter Nadine] 20th of May—Friday—I made 12 pounds butter and honest to God—20 pounds cheese—we had enough milk. My husband took it to the market—he sold it all. Nettie: You made a businessman out of him. Mary: Oh yeah, funny thing! Nettie: Do you have any more experiences? You did have many interesting experiences. Mary: Yeah. (Laughing). Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, Where did you go to school? Europe? Where did you get married? When you got married you probably went to work. Mary: When I was in Europe—we didn't have much schooling—my dad always said, "You'll never get bread to eat by going to school—you have to go out in the fields to work to have bread." I went to school—very little—they didn't give us a chance to go to school—Polish officials were against us—in attending school. Nettie: What did you learn? Mary: I learned Russian and Polish languages—we had to learn both languages. We attended school 8 to 11 in the morning. Later, work in the fields—that's all. [Interview #2: 20 June 1978] Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, will you continue telling me more about your life on the farm? Mrs. Fenson, let's go back to the flowers you used to raise on the farm—will you tell me more about it? Mary: Well, I raised just what I could sell at the market—see—various vegetables and anything that the customers requested, she accommodated them, and earned a good income. Nettie: You can go on. Did you ever have trouble with the disease that the gladiola had? Mary: No, never, because before you plant gladiolas you should soak them in the water at least 36 hours and then plant it. Nettie: Oh! first soak them— Mary: Oh, yeah—now people don't do that, but before, yes—uh—forgot what you put in the water—can't remember—-if gladiolas get the trips it is very hard to get rid of—just like if a person gets very ill and it is, is hard to get healed—from the trips— Nettie: Well, Mrs. Fenson, when you were on the farm, you told us the last time about how you used to drive the team of horses—did you ever learn to drive a car? Mary: No. Nettie: Did you ever try to learn? Did your husband teach you? Mary: Well, from the beginning we owned a truck. My husband said, "Why, the truck—let's buy a car.” He bought a car—Pontiac—nice car—brand new one. He told me, "Right away I will teach you and then you can drive a car.” All right, good—we bought a car—drove home to the farm and in the driveway—side of house—had to drive on the upgrade. He said, “Sit on this side, I'll tell you how to back out of the driveway.” I drove several feet—stalled the car—he said, “Oh! Oh! That’s all! You'll never learn to drive because if you gonna drive the car you gonna kill yourself—you gonna kill lots of people, you no good.” (Laughing.)  I was mad but they don't do no good—that's about how much I learned to drive the car. I asked, "All these years I used to go with the horses, now I can't go with the car.” He said, "You do not have any nerve to drive the car.” After that I just didn't want to learn anymore—there! As for being retired—we were not really retired that we wanted to—no—it was because my husband was very ill. What to do? Could not work in the fields or garden, noplace, because he was in the hospital most of the time. I got us thinking—to sell the cows and just live like that on the farm. So, we were going to live on the farm with nothing to raise, so we decided to sell the farm. We sold the farm, which is located across the road, and this land on which this house is built was empty—we decided to build a home on this land about the year 1953. Now we thought we could live fairly well, as they say, our business was in order, we saved a little money, no debts and just live—but then my husband started ailing—really ailing—and then just left me—passed away. Yes—it’s terrible—suffering—working—and then— [pause] He—if only he didn't smoke that much. He was a wonderful man—he wasn't a gambler, no drunk, no woman chaser, like they say, he was a wonderful man—he worked—did everything—did not have to have someone doing his work—just smoked endlessly since he was a young man. That's why he got emphysema and heart trouble, left everything. [Pause]. We also had a beautiful home in Florida—I thought that weather would agree with him—oh—but that did not help him. Nettie: Is the cigarettes that really got him? Mary: The cigarettes did that to him—the worst thing during the end, he had in the bedroom by the bed an oxygen tank—he had to inhale the oxygen in order to breathe—it was very difficult for me because he had to lie in bed and I had to apply this mask on him and see that he inhaled the oxygen, otherwise he would choke. That was really awful—God be with him—he just could not get well. Nettie: That's bad—cigarette smoking. I don't smoke—but many do and I don't think it is good for them. Mary: I have a daughter, Olga, I don't know if you knew her, she smokes constantly. I've talked, pleaded with her—nothing helps—just keeps on smoking—that's all. Nettie: Some people are like that. Mary: Yes, some men turn to smoking, some to drinking—you could live without this—live like God intended them to—but people don't look at it in that way. Nettie: I think if people want to indulge they can do so moderately. Mary: Oh—more I know—third of July will be 57 years that we came on this land—57 years. Nettie: Here on the farm? Mary: Yes—57 years. Here—the road—it was such a narrow road which was difficult to have two cars drive on it at one time—dirt road—no electricity—no, no, it was difficult living here. (Laughing.) We had kerosene lamps— Nettie: Where did you have the kerosene lamps? Mary: In the house. You put a kerosene lamp on a table and just sat around—there was no television, no radio, no nothing when we bought the farm, but we lived and everything was all right. Nettie: What did you do for water? Mary: Oh, we had a well near our house. We had to go out and pump our water when we needed water—see, in the house we did not have running water, only a well which you had outdoors to pump and get water. If I was in need of hot water, I had the stove with which I burned wood—that's how we got along. Nettie: That is a big change for people nowadays— Mary: Oh yes—nowadays—it is just like a day and night. People have all the conveniences—like washing machines, etc.—machines for everything—for people this is the life. I used a washboard. Nowadays, many people with conveniences tend to get lazy. Nettie: They don't want to work! No! Mary: I have an example. Look at my daughter, next door—she has a washing machine and dryer. Why does she have to pay for electricity for a dryer? Why, we have the beautiful outdoors where in no time her clothes can be dry and smell ever so sweetly—but no, she puts her clothes in one machine then another, that— (Laughing.) Nettie: This is an age of progress. Mary: Oh yeah, I didn't even have a decent electric iron to iron clothes—I only had a iron that you put on the stove, heated it and then did your, your ironing—heating constantly. Nettie: I had forgotten—how did you iron in those days? Mary: You took this iron—heated it—and with clamps you picked up the iron—then you iron. Nettie: This was a continuous heating? Mary: Yes, constantly. I had three of them heating—when one was cooled, you returned to the stove and took next one—you picked them up with a clamp that fitted on these irons. That's the way I ironed, but, you got used to it—that's all. Nettie: That's right. Mary: People have to get used to everything—if a necessity arises—people get used to it. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, did you ever do needlework? Mary: I did cross-stitch—oh, how I loved to do that. That is how I spoiled my eyesight—I always loved to do the cross-stitch. Nettie: What did you do? Mary: Oh, everything! Shirts—I worked cross-stitch on shirts which they used on theater plays on Baxter Street (St. Mary's Russian Orthodox Church). I really loved that type of needlework! Nettie: Yeah. Mary: Oh, needlepoint I didn't do that—crochet—I didn't do that. I didn't have enough nerve—you work, work, and nothing is appealing—but embroider-work, you have flowers, birds, etc. Nettie: Did you ever knit? Mary: No, cross-stitch is all I did—that was my life! Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, you must’ve been a pretty good baker. Did you make breads, cakes? Mary: Nothing much—I only made sugar cookies—cookies. Nettie: Oh yes. Mary: Other times—Friday was my day to bake cookies—I sold them on the market at 20¢ a dozen. Nettie: What kind? Mary: White sugar cookie—some people asked for molasses cookies, but it would not pay. I would make sugar cookies with lemon flavor—people sure loved them. I remember for a long time many elderly people would stop and ask, "When are you going to make cookies?" I told them, no more cookies—I had too much work in the fields. Later, we raised chickens, we had our own incubator for the chickens. When we came on the farm there was only one house and barn, no other buildings. Now we had a big new hen house, brooding house, raised own chickens, 3,000 of them, 14 cows. We had enough work—we had to milk cows— Nettie: Didn't you have any machinery? Mary: We had machinery at the time but did not have money to buy the machinery! All right—after a time we saved some money, were doing better. My husband said, "Now, let's buy a new machine." The machine cost $350—that is for a milking machine. It was wonderful—didn't need to milk by hand. All right, then came the harvest time—who is going to help you with the hay? My husband is older—cannot work—I could not do it—children scattered to many cities. So, again, who is going to work? At that point my husband decided, "Let us sell the farm." So, that is our retirement. There was no other way—before that, we were younger, able to work the fields or garden, milk cows, tend to the chickens, but after a person gets older, loses strength— Nettie: You should have had some help, right? Mary: My son-in-law worked in EJ until 4pm—later during daylight he would help my husband put the hay in bales, put it in the barn, and even on Saturdays and Sundays, he helped us. That's true, you can't find people to work on the farm, as industry is not too far off. They'd rather work in industry and not work such long hours on the farm. As I said, we finally sold the farm. My husband just did not want to along with the farm as, although we did get a nice sum for the farm, he started ailing. It was a constant procedure, to the hospital, home, operations, back and forth—back and forth. Must be that was our fate! It was bad, too—one of our daughters, Olga, had an operation—then the other daughter, Nadya, had an operation—they had appendicitis. Olga did not cost us too much but Nadya's operation cost quite a bit more as she had a rupture. She was in the hospital much longer. Nettie: Nadya—is that Nadine? I am Nadya, also. Mary: Yeah, that is Nadine. That is a beautiful name. When Nadya got ill they took her to the hospital. The doctor did not operate, at first, but told my husband it will cost you $500. We didn't have $500, so my husband went up to see his brother, Steve, for a loan. We paid the bill, doctor’s bill, at Lourdes Hospital. It was very hard for us to pay the hospital bill but the Sister of Lourdes Hospital were very sympathetic and made a deal. They told us, “You live on the farm, so try and pay us with produce, poultry and eggs—anything you can spare—in this way you can take care of the bill.” Nettie: This was a good deal because the hospital needs produce, chicken and eggs. Mary: Oh yeah, they always took 30 dozen eggs, 1 dozen cut up dressed chickens. They appreciated all this, as this is what they had to go out to buy, anyway. Nettie: This is a good example for this kind of barter now, since prices and taxes are so high. Mary: Oh no, not now—everything is different now—as day and night. People have changed—most are mixed up. (Sigh). Life has passed with all tribulations—as I said—times were tough, first one daughter had an operation, then the second daughter had an operation, and in 1940—all of sudden our house burned. Yeah, I was working with my daughter Olga in the garden and my husband was in the henhouse. I had not been in the garden very long when my husband yelled, "Ma, the house is on fire." Our garden was quite a ways from the house, therefore we did not see anything. Immediately, Olga ran up to the house and yelled, "Come on, come on!" I finally hurried to the house—by gosh, after we looked around the house was burning blaze. This was about 2pm. Nettie: What happened? Mary: Short circuit—what we had, everything perished. As for insurance, all we got was $500—because they had no fire stations, therefore we could not get more money. Nettie: What could a person do with so little as $500? Mary: That is right. We wanted to build a new home—but, what to do for money? Mr. Beckwith of Beckwith Lumber Company was also a person who was sympathetic to our needs. When he heard of our bad luck he came to see us. He asked, "Simon, do you have enough insurance?" My husband replied, "I hate to tell you we have only $500."  He said, “You can't too much with $500, but don't worry—find yourself a carpenter, have him measure how much lumber, etc., is needed and notify me. Everything will be taken care of.” That is exactly what we did, and the next day a truck from the lumber company arrived with the lumber. (Laughing.) We bought our lumber from Beckwith's during the years, whether to build a barn, henhouse, and paid our bills well. We eventually built our new home and paid our bills—somehow God sent us strength and business was good at the market—whatever we brought, we sold everything! It was just good luck—although everything was perished in the fire, but God gave us strength to work so that we came out—all right. Nettie: I think Mr. Beckwith was a good man to do that for you. You could see that he had a lot of respect for you—knowing you will pay your bills. Mary: Yeah, Yeah. Nettie: Nowadays situations are different. You would not find anyone who would trust a person like that. Mary: That is right, if you live a honest, clean life, people don't forget. Nettie: That is true, that is true. Mary: It will be 57 years that we lived on the farm—on July 3 or 4 was Sunday and people celebrated Monday. It was so cold— Nettie: 57 years ago? Mary: By gosh, when we moved up on the farm from Binghamton we had no lights, we could not see anything. I couldn't see my husband and he couldn't see me. (Laughing.) Here we wanted to connect our stove, but since we couldn't see what to do we decided to do just—wait until morning. The next morning we connected the stove, put the coal on the wood, and were warmed up—it was so cold that whole week that we thought we would have a frost—July 1920. Even with all of life's tribulations—if I had to relive my life, honest to God, I would relive it the same. Nettie: You would relive your life the same? Mary: I would relive it. If God told me to relive what I had been through, I would! Only give me back my strength—I just love to work in the fields, in the garden—that was my love, the outside, to work. I'm not like the ladies who get together for a coffee klatch or the ones who get together for bridge—theirs is a different life—I loved the outdoors. Sometimes, during the winter weather the snow was so high, you could not see very far, my husband would start off for the woods and say, "Do you think you could leave the children alone and go to the woods and help me?" (Laughing.) We had about 35 acres of woods—you could get a lot of lumber out of them—but some of the trees needed a cross-cut saw, so I would go with my husband and help to hold the saw as he cut the lumber. Nettie: Did you go out in the bitter weather? Mary: Sure, I'd put on boots and go in the deep snows. When you are out in the snow you don't realize you are cold—because you are working. When times are tough you get used to do everything. Nettie: I think when you are in the woods or working in the garden it gives you such a peace of mind—such a peaceful atmosphere! Mary: Yeah, while my husband is cutting the wood I'm piling the wood—helping him in any way I could. We worked all the time—we had enough of wood for our home use. We had a country schoolhouse down the way to which we sold several cords of wood, too. Nettie: Do you still have it? Mary: No, no, we sold it with the farm—that's all. We sold everything with the farm but two acres—there it lies dormant—I can't work it anymore—the land is idle—when I was able to work I had everything, raspberries, vegetables, etc.—even flowers. Here we get a lot of traffic passing our home, we were able to sell all of our produce and flowers. Now, I look at the idle land—I can't walk— Nettie: It must make you feel bad, doesn't it? Mary: It hurts. It pains me to know you have the land but I can't walk, I can't even bend—it's right there—you can't get to it—I see it—that's all. I've been to many doctors—upper body is fine but my feet and knees, arthritis. I have X-ray after X-ray, but it does no good because all they tell me is I have bad arthritis. I know all of this and it is frustrating. You could have all the money in the world, but, if you don't have good health—it is not good. My husband tried to see that all of our debts were paid, we saved a little money, and since our children have grown up, married and moved to distant places, we would just enjoy life together—but look what happened. He became ill—very ill—left this world—that's all—only I am here—left alone on this earth—that's all. (Laughing.) We came to live on this road 57 years ago—this road leading to the airport. No one is left—they have all passed away—only I am still living. Oh no, there is one man, a Slovak man who lives in a small white house near the school. His name is Valenta. Nettie: We were talking about the holy day called Troitsa. Do you recall how they celebrated that day? Mary: Our church parishioners go to the cemetery on that day to have services, memorial services for the deceased of the parish. Many of the people put branches on the graves to commemorate the day. Nettie: Do you remember how they used to decorate the homes on that day? Mary: Yes, Yes everybody had branches of trees on the doors, windows on that holy day, Troitsa. They also strewed large blades of greens—someone told us it is called cattails—on the floors. In Europe they used to bring large trees and dig them in the ground around the doors—greens everywhere—every niche in the house, roof, etc. Nettie: What was the reason for that? Mary: It was a such a holy day that they all did that and believed in it, I don't understand. (Day of the Holy Spirit). Also, on that day we used to go to the marshes to pick the cattails which grow there. This Troitsa (Pentecost) is a big holy day and I also, remember when I was a young girl in Europe we used to make bouquets of cattails, greens and May flowers. All girls of my age, we took the bouquets to church—filing in twos we would walk down the aisle and have our bouquets blessed by the priest. Also, another custom was celebrated 3-4 weeks later on another holy day was, we made wreaths and also took took them to church to be blessed and then, about a week later, about of August 19 we took fruits of all sorts to be blessed—thanking God for a good harvest of fruits. Nettie: What place did you come from, Mrs. Fenson? Mary: Austria. Nettie: Austria—that must have been on the border of Poland or Russia. Mary: Yes, on the border of—uh—Wolynskia Gubernia [Volhynian Governorate]. Nettie: Was the name of the town? Mary: Selo Wisosko was what it was called—we call it Brody. Nettie: My father was from that city. Mary: You mean it?! (Laughing.) The Wolynski boys used to come to our town, just to our neighboring selo [town]. They said they liked when the Wolynski boys came because they were nice gentlemen who brought candy, cigarettes, tobacco, and even brought liquor. (Laughing.) The Austrian girls made pirohys, so there was always a party. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, thank you very much for telling me more of your life and experiences—I really appreciate it. Mary: You are welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Subject The topic of the resource Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Description An account of the resource Mrs. Fenson continues to talk about her life on a farm in Johnson City, NY and the day a fire destroyed her home and how the Beckwith Lumber Co. assisted in rebuilding. She also discusses the customs of her culture on Pentecost (Troitsa). Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 21; Recording 22 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fenson, Mary ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-25 ; 1978-06-20 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/b95df1eaf662d4e4f881efde7fa32246.mp3 9e4263b73886217b4e37fc51f8a62be5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Riggins, Olga Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-04-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 27:45 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56008">Interview with Olga Riggins</a> Subject LCSH Riggins, Olga -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees; Hotels -- Employees Carlova Perfume Factory; Hotel Billingshurst; Christ the King Church Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Olga Riggins Interviews by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 27 April 1978 Anna: I am Anna Caganek, the interviewer, talking to Olga Riggins. 302 Kent Ave, Endwell, New York. On April 27, 1978. Okay, so…now you could tell me about your life and your experiences. Olga: Well, my parents were born in Europe. See, my father came from Uhersky Brod. He was born in 1884, and my mother was born in Holicek [sic], 1896. Her maiden name was Konecny. They had a 5 year courtship in Europe, before they were married. Then they settled down and had a grocery store. Two children were born in Europe and my father came to this country in 1910. And one of his first jobs was working in the Fairbanks for about 7 dollars a week. And they moved in with some relatives - I remember that. It was very reasonable - I remember that. And let’s see…after that… I don’t know his other jobs, but…oh, one boy was born in America, he lived to be about a year old. And there was a cholera epis-epidemic at the time. So he died. And then about a year later, I was born. And I was born right on Glenwood Ave. And downstairs was a grocery store and that my mother was working there, too. What else for now…? No? [foreign] Well, let’s see…where else do we go from there? Anna: Take your time. Olga: Well, my father had an education in Europe - a business course. So he was a businessman, even in Europe. So when he came to this country, he started up a store on Clinton St. I think the number was 186 at the time…and then I think at that address, two more brothers were born. And he had the store, and he framed pictures, and he sold religious articles, and all kind of foreign cards in all the First Ward, very popular store. And then much later, he had another store on 60 Glenwood Ave. And at that address, my sister was born; she was the last of the six children. Let’s see, after she had six children, um…yeah, my parents not only had a store - they also had an icehouse. And that was very interesting because all the children helped, including myself. I almost forgot about that…that was really good. Yeah, and everybody came with their cars and wagons, business was good. We really, really enjoyed it. It was a gold mine. Anna: How much was the ice then? Olga: Oh! Well, the ice? 50 cents for 100 pounds, and I think 10 cents for 25 pounds. I used to enjoy working there. That was really fun. Anna: A time when there was no refrigerators? Olga: Yeah, there was no refrigerators at the time, so that was good. And you, there was a nice hotel across the street from us, a, a hotel. Hutta’s Hotel. That was really nice; I remember that. And where a beautiful garden there was around there. And the people across the street would get their beer, they go with pitchers, buy their beer across the street. That was really nice. Now there’s a gas station. Let’s see, after that? I’m trying to think…well, I got married when I was living on Glenwood Ave. I met my husband in a shoe factory, and we have one son. Let’s see…I think I stayed about 3 years in E. J.’s [Endicott Johnson]. And then, um…before then or afterwards, I worked in a restaurant as a short order cook for about 2 years. And at one time, I put in a couple years at Carlova Perfume Factory. That was interesting. Anna: What did they do there? Olga: At Carlova’s? Anna: Mm-hm. Olga: Well, we were packing things. Some of them filled powder boxes, some filled the perfume bottles. I remember packing bath salts, packing bath salts and putting them in boxes. That was interesting work, but that was just part time. And I was also a maid in a Hotel Billinghurst, which is gone now. That was interesting work, too. Anna: What were you doing? Olga: I was a maid. I was a maid in the Hotel Billinghurst for a couple years. And I spent a lot of time working in a store. See, I enjoyed selling things; I helped a lot in the icehouse and in a store. That kept me pretty busy. And let’s see, what else? Dan? Dan, my husband, was a furnace man - he installed furnaces. That was good work. And he retired…oh, I guess he was, you know, 62. Only 62 years old, he retired. Anna: And what does your son do? Olga: Oh, yeah. Our son has a good job. He works in the Gas and Electric Company. He went to Broome Tech. for 2 years; that was his education. And he is doing doing very well working for the Gas and Electric Company for the last, about 11 years now. Anything else now? Um, that’s our tape, our tape. What about my sister? Well, we don’t care about her - she getting [unintelligible] Anna: You could tell ‘em. Olga: Well, let’s see…should I tell ‘em about my brother’s [unintelligible]? They don’t care about that. Let’s see…the second oldest brother died. He worked in Links. He died about 5 years ago, and then almost 2 years ago, a younger brother died. He worked for the printing company: Hall Printing. He died. The rest of us live. Anna: And you could say that! Olga: And the rest of us live. Well, only 2 died and there’s 4 out of 6, so that isn’t so bad. Anna: How many children did your mother have? Olga: 6 - well, one died, so that was actually 7. 7. Anna: 7. Olga: There was 7, so there’s 4 survivors. And my father had interesting work. when the people want to send money to Europe, he was very handy. He had a business with a bank in New York, and the people would bring their money. He was a very good, experienced man - a good writer and a businessman. So they would pay him a small fee and he would send their money to Europe. That was a good service for the people in the First Ward. They enjoyed sending a little money to Europe and he liked to do that for them. And he was one of the first people to have a car. We lived on Clinton St. Nobody else had a car. His first Ford…boy, that was, everybody liked that. They would go for a ride. Anna: You don’t know what year, right? Olga: Oh, I’m trying to think if it was 1923? Anna: Mm. Olga: About 1923 ‘cause I’m standing on the train and I was born in 1916. Let’s see…he did that, what else did he do? Of course, back to Europe again, it’s too late for that. Anna: No. Olga: Too late? While my mother was in Europe, her father had a good job.  He was like an overseer, sort of like a plantation, and my mother was a young girl. And she used to weed out the sugar cane. I remember her telling me that. Anna: Mm. Olga: She was very active and liked liked to help out, so she enjoyed weeding out the sugar cane; that was one of her jobs. And then her mother wanted her to learn how to be a good cook and learn outside things, so she was hired out to a school teacher in Europe. So she cooked for a school teacher and lived in a very nice place. They had peacocks and everything there - I remember that. And lot of these fancy dogs. So my mother was, um, learning how to cook. And she was housekeeper and cook in this nice home. And after she got married, and my father told her she can’t work there anymore, so she enjoyed that. And when the school teacher took sick, my mother took over the class. She let her take over. This must’ve been a lower grade, I guess so. Any, elementary school. So my mother was smart enough to take over when the lady couldn’t make it. Anna: Mm-hm. Olga: That was a good job. There’s a lady here in Binghamton that worked for the same household: Mrs. Mizule. [sic] She worked for the same household. Yeah…and I always thought I could go to Europe sometime, but I don’t know…still hoping. And I, well, they don’t have to know about that cousin that, she died. She was the one that encouraged me to come. Yeah, she encouraged me to come. My cousin, Anna Kocecny. She really wanted me to come and the poor soul, she died Easter Day. She told me if I came to Europe, she’d show me where my grandparents lived, where they’re buried, all the interesting things. And especially, I’d like to see that castle where she had been working as a hostess. Someday, maybe I’ll still get there. ‘Cause I still have a few cousins there. Anna: About the baths? Olga: Oh, they have these mineral baths in Europe that, a lot of the Americans go there. And I heard so many people that go to Europe tell me about those mineral baths - the Health Baths. Now, that’s one of the places I’d like to go. The Health Bath…that would really be something. Anna: Is, is that the one that’s in Carlsbath, or…? Olga: No, that’s, uh…the one, um…it’s near Trnava. It’s, um…who has - Trnava, and what’s that other town? Oh, oh, I’ve heard of them. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: No, no, no, I’ve heard it because they’ve been there. I can’t think of it now. [unintelligible] You know, those mineral baths, and it’s…their climates are so different there, their summers come early. And Americans come to this castle to be entertained. Someday, I gotta go there, see for myself all the things I hear about. And the same cousin said if I don’t get there, that our children and her children should get together and look over our European country where our ancestors came from. Anna: Mm. Olga: Gee, that’s a long tape. Anna: Yeah, it’s some [unintelligible] gonna say [unintelligible] Olga: Goodness. What else is new? Anna: And about your husband, what does he do? Olga: Well, he’s retired now. Anna: No? Olga: Well, he’s retired, but yeah…Dan’s re-Dan’s retired. Anna: He never worked in - oh, yeah! He worked in E. J. Johnson, right? Olga: Oh, yeah; 20 years. Yeah, Dan worked in E.J.’s 20 years and he got no benefits at the time. There was no Social Security, nothing. No retirement. 20 years for nothing. Very, you know, cheap labor, yeah. He put in 20 years. Then he worked for the various different, um, heating companies: Glenwood Heating and Statewide Heating. He worked for all of them. So he was very well-experienced with the, all kind of heating problems. Anna: Mm-hm. Olga: And he was very efficient around the house ‘cause anything breaks down…yeah, he could fix everything. Anna: And what, what did you do for entertainment? Olga: For entertainment? Not much. Anna: [laughs] Olga: Watch TV. No, I’m the kind that likes to go places and do things. I do a lot of volunteer work, I go to state hospital every month… Anna: Tell me about that. Olga: What, the state hospital? Anna: About when you come there and… Olga: What we do in the state hospital? Anna: Yeah. Olga: Well, I enjoy it because every month, we do something different. Now, I have lot of fun there because I never bowled in my life, and now I went bowling again. That was fun. And, uh, I’ve never been to a hayride. You go to the state hospital as a volunteer, I really enjoyed doing the things that the patients do. And they get to know you after a while. Then I go to Western Broome, made a lot of friends within the year. I got lot of friends in Western Broome because we have trips, and dinner dances, cover dish. And we have a lot of good times and I met a lot of nice people there. Anna: What ch-? Olga: Oh, and of course - what church? Anna: Not, no, what church did you go to? Olga: Well, I belong to Christ the King in Endwell, and I belong to Legion of Mary, Altar Rosary, uh, Golden Age. Very busy lady. Anna: [chuckles] Olga: I really enjoy being with people, and helping people, and being useful. Helping out anybody that needs help. And I know the senior citizens get phone numbers for all these things, so I tell people, “You can get help here, you can get help there.” So it’s good to be a senior citizen. Anna: Mm-hm. Olga: How long is the tape? [chuckles] Anna: Oh, God. Olga: How much longer? Anna: We got a lot more. Olga: I see like a, oh. I thought, I thought, oh… Anna: 90 - 92 minutes. Olga: Oh, I’m talking too fast. Oh, ours is only one hour, see. One hour. And you got, like, 10 minutes. This is a really, really big one. We talk a lot. Something else that won’t be blank? Anna: No. Olga: Let’s see…all the interesting things…well. We, we have a s-grandchild, my husband’s grandchild. Anna: Where do they live? Olga: Oh, the grandchild? They live in Littlestown, Pennsylvania. I married a widower who has 2 sons. The older one is a widower, and the younger one is remarried and has this, only grandchild that we have. Of course, our boy is still single, still looking. And he’s a very good boy - helps his parents any way he can. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: Oh, lots of properties. Yeah, he’s a young fellow, but he likes to invest, so…he’s got investments for his old age. Let’s see… Anna: What were some of the most interesting things you like to do? Olga: My most interesting? Oh, nothing. Anna: Traveling, huh? Traveling. Olga: Traveling? Well, I enjoy going to, um, these religious - I enjoy going on these religious trips to Fatima near Canada because that’s the only way I got to Canada - by going with the church group. Anna: How about a place where they, where the people were dressed differently? Olga: I didn’t go there, you didn’t take me to such a town. You didn’t take me there, you didn’t take me. Now, where was I? I was talking about something…about my trips. Anna: Yeah. Olga: Yeah, if the churches and senior citizens didn’t have these trips, I probably wouldn’t go anyplace. My husband likes to drive, but not too far. I don’t know. He likes to go for a ride but not too far. So by going on these different excursions and bus trips, I’ve been to a lot of places like Mount Airy Lodge. I probably never would have got there if it wasn’t for the Senior Citizens - it was very reasonable. And I went to Niagara Falls, I think 2 or 3 times already. He never took me - I had to take myself to go to Niagara Falls. Let’s see, where else do I go…? Anna: You like animals? Olga: Oh, animals? Oh, yeah. I like animals. Yeah, we have a cat - she must be 12 or 13 years old. Florence, she’s such a nice cat kitty. Anna: [chuckles] Olga: She’s really a pleasure, and she’s so smart like a dog. You walk out the house, she follow you. And she’s a lot, a lot of pleasure. ‘Course, we used to have a dog, but that’s old stuff. Anna: You ever go to the circus? Olga: Oh, that? Yep. We care about that? Anna: Yeah. Olga: I thought just history - this ain’t history. Well, I enjoyed the circus, and I used to go when they had ‘em in the tents, Stow Flats. Anna: Well, it’s history in a way. Olga: [laughs] Anna: ‘Cause you go there and, you know… Olga:  Yeah. Well, they had, uh, circus in a tent. But now they have an arena, it’s so much nicer, and cleaner, and easy to get to. Buses run. We have very good, very good bus travel here - I enjoy riding the buses. And now that I’m a senior citizen, I get a discount. That’s nice, too. That discount, I enjoy that. And, let’s see..I guess they’re going to improve our Ross Park. I’ve been going there practically all my life, and it is better than it was before, but they’re making improvements all the time. That’s one of the places I love to go. Anna: Did you ever go there on that, on a streetcar? Olga: Yep, I went on a streetcar, but I must have been about 10 or 12 at the time. Because I remember the streetcars, vaguely. And Recreation Park, I passed it the other day. And I used to take care of my sister, and walked with a carriage, I loved Recreation Park. That hasn’t changed - that’s still nice. Anna: Mm-hm. Olga: Oh, I do love our parks. And I’ve been to state parks since that’s changed over. State park has changed over, and what’s nice is that senior citizens don’t even have to pay now. If you go on a weekday - not a, not a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday - you don’t even have to pay. Which is very nice. Anna: You worked in E.J., didn’t you? Olga: Yeah. Did I say that? 3 years. Yeah, I said 3 years E. J.’s, and 2 - yeah. I’m a dander. Anna: Oh. Olga: 3 years in E. J.’s and 2 years in P. J.’s. [chuckles] P. J.’s Restaurant. Anna: Well, how much, you weren’t - how much were you making then, when you first started? Olga: Oh, good heavens. It was a day work job, I don’t even know. I was working day work - I didn’t put in that many years to compare. Anna: You weren’t making much income? Olga: No, I don’t know how much, but it wasn’t much. Anna: You wanna tell ‘em about E. J.’s? How nice they were. Olga: How nice were they? In what way? Anna: They held, they gave the parties, and… Olga: Oh, E. J.’s? Well, while I worked in E. J.’s, I went - when my department, everybody went in, whoever went into service were all, they had a party, went to all the parties. That was nice. Anna: Mm-hm. That was for a dollar, you would say… Olga: Oh, the banquet? Well, E. J.’s was a very nice company. I will never forget ‘em because they had the E. J. banquets and I went to quite a few, and my gosh. For a dollar, you got your money’s worth. That was really something. Anna: Mm. Olga: Dad didn’t go, but I used to go with the other people. I really enjoyed going. And our son has a cottage - we like to go there. You know, being senior citizens, it’s a nice place to go, and it’s so quiet, it’s so nice there. And Dan’s pretty smart; he fixed up, um, a motor, and he hooked on to a car battery. And you don’t have to row the boat - it just takes you for a ride. The boat goes around the lake, and it’s so nice and so peaceful. All white birch trees - a lot of ‘em. That’s why it’s called White Birch Lake. White Birch in Windsor; nice place to visit. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: Well, everybody else has been there, yeah. We haven’t been around, we go. Yep. And it’s…Joey modernized it: He has a little water bed there now. And one bedroom is all finished; the other bedroom isn’t finished yet, but it’s really nice. And when the blackberry season comes - I went once, I’d like to go again - people can pay, I forgot, not very much, and you can pick your own blackberries. So a couple years ago, I was picking blackberries there. That made it nice. Anna: Did you ever pick blackberries way back when you were a kid? Olga: Not, not that I remember. Oh, a little bit. When Tommy was small, I took care of Tommy. He used to go picking things. [unintelligible] Anna: When we went to the [unintelligible] play. Olga: Oh, that? Well, I don’t know what year, I don’t know what year that was, but a friend of mine - should I talk about this? Anna: You could. Olga: Well, Anne Cagenek, my friend from way back, we had a chance to be actresses on a stage. They had a Passion play, and we were Jewish ladies - Arabian or Jewish ladies. And we even had costumes, and make-up, and we played for 3 matinees. 3 matinees - that was something. Imagine being on the stage. Anna: And you were in the Passion show? Olga: The Passion show. Yeah, it was the Passion play, and we were on a stage. We played for 3 matinees. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: Before the, just before the Capital Theatre was torn down. So we certainly miss, uh, that Capital Theatre. We miss it because that was such a show. Being on a stage, that’s once in a lifetime thing. And I enjoyed going there with my mother because they had vaudeville. Now, that was something. We don’t have vaudeville anymore - I do miss it. Wish we had the Capital Theatre, but now there’s a big parking lot for the bank. Theatre is gone. And, let’s see…oh, I used to belong to St. Cyril’s Church way back. And that was remodeled and torn down. Now, there’s a brand new church there. I went there all my life. And of course, now I go to Christ the King on Davis St. It’s a very small church, but very friendly - you get to know half the church. And, uh, we have Monsignor Frieze [sic] there and Father Walsh. So, it’s…oh, and our church, uh, once a month, we have this Golden Age which is very nice. It only started a few years ago, and I’m one of the members. Also, my husband is a member. We all bring a cover dish, and, um…first, we have our mass. And then we go downstairs and have our dinner. And then we have entertainment. Sometimes musicians come in and play for us, sometimes we have bingo, and they do give door prizes. And it’s, it’s very nice for the older people to get to. And we didn’t have that too long, so…we like that. And Dan isn’t a church member, but this, he does go with me. It’s one way to get him to church. He really likes that. group it’s very nice I belong there, I started a few years ago I belong there, I’m one of the members also my husband is a member. Anna: You’re, you’re a young senior citizen. Olga: I am? Anna: Aren’t you? Olga: Well, the bus driver says, “Senior citizen?” I says, “Yeah, I’m not ashamed to say I’m young senior citizen - 62.” I said, “Being a senior citizen, you do have a lot of nice breaks that I didn’t have before. I’m gonna go to Phase then, I understand that if you, lot of card, you can get a discount on any Phase products. I didn’t know that. You go to Kent’s? You don’t get a discount - only on the prescription - because anybody that walks in says that it’s already marked down.” No, you can only get a discount only on the prescription. With Phase, you can get a discount on anything in the store has the Phase label. You know, there’s washing supplies and cleaning things, or whatever you wanna buy at Phase, you do get a discount - you look into that. And what else? I was smart enough to get some of my mother’s receipts, I have a whole book of my her recipes. So [clears throat] a lot of the things she cooked and baked, I could read the book and do it just like my mother did. That’s something. Yep. Anna: How long did you live in Binghamton? Olga: How long have I lived in Binghamton? Well, all my life; I’ve never lived anyplace else. Binghamton’s my hometown. Born in Binghamton and probably die here [chuckles]. Anna: And where do you go? Olga: Yeah, well, I go on little visits - not big ones. But, yeah. Binghamton is my hometown. And I’m watching it change. Some of the things are pretty good. ‘Course, the old-fashioned things we miss, but [clears throat] we’re having a lot of little, nice improvements. Walking through Court Street, I see all the buildings get a new front. I see the work - oh, they’re cleaning up Binghamton. It’s really nice. I like the little park they have around by by the river: Benches and trees. They’re really improving Binghamton - I could see it change in all these years. Well, we’ve been here 62 years, that’s quite a while. I don’t think I’d like to live anyplace else…yep. I really care about Binghamton. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: About our cemetery? Well, we have a nice cemetery. It’s, uh, Saint Cyril’s Cemetery. Saint Cyril’s. Anna: And is that where your family…? Olga: Yeah, your family. Don’t I know…Well, I’m looking forward to May 18. I’m going to Rochester. I hope the lilacs are open by then. In Rochester…I did do go there a couple years ago. We went to the Kodak Mansion, where the first cameras and the first pictures were made. That was really, really interesting. And then we went to a conservatory, saw all kinds of Oriental plants. And, uh, Hawaiian plants that we don’t even see around here - hope I go there again. And of course, we always stop at some nice restaurant. Those trips are really - I’m looking forward, I expect to go. Spring is here, but I’m gonna be traveling all summer: Every chance I get. So May 18 is my first trip. And maybe I’ll go to Canada again…I like that, too. And Niagara Falls, you never get tired of that. They don’t care that I went to [unintelligible] Anna: What? Olga: That I went to [unintelligible]. That I’m very lucky. You gonna put all that in the book? Anna: Well, there’s something worth saying there. You can tell ‘em. Olga: Well, they call me lu- they call me lucky. I don’t know why because I win this and that. Not everything, but almost. Anna: Almost. Olga: Even at the Senior Citizen, we have bingo. And I won yesterday, and I won last week. And when I went to the dinner dance, I won a door prize there. It won two fancy handkerchiefs. Anna: Oooh. Olga: It was 300 people, or not…was it 300? 125 people and only 6 people won. It was 125, and I was one of the 6. [chuckles] They see me walking to the thing. [clears throat] Anna: You went to the WMBF? Olga: Oh, WMBF? Let’s see, they didn’t give me a television. WMBF? Anna: But you won a lot of things. Olga: Well, I won that AM/FM radio I won on WMBF, and WNBR, a black and white television. And when the Oakdale Mall opened, I was lucky I won a television in the Citizens’ Savings Bank. And then a long time ago…we won - or actually, Dan - the BB store had a grand opening, so that actually, that was Dan’s television. Hm, they call me lucky. I wonder why? I must live right. That’s what they tell me. Every time I turn around, something nice happens. Yeah, I guess there is something to it: If you live right, it really pays off to live right. Anna: [unintelligible] Olga: [chuckles] God bless America. [laughs] Anna: And that’s it. Thank you, Olga, for the interview. Olga: You’re welcome, Anne. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Olga Riggins Subject The topic of the resource Riggins, Olga -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees; Hotels -- Employees; Carlova Perfume Factory; Hotel Billingshurst; Christ the King Church Description An account of the resource Olga Riggins talks about her parents' courtship and emigration from Europe to the U.S. She talks about her father's store and the ice house he operated. She tells of her variety of jobs - the Endicott Shoe Corporation, Carlova Perfume Factory, Hotel Billingshurst as a maid, and working in her family's store. She speaks about how she occupies her time, dedication to her church, Christ the King, and the various church activities she is involved with. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 51 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Riggins, Olga ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-27 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 27:45 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7fcf306abba8625049aecb011e883118.mp3 1db667c6348d5691415fdc3994fda77b https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dd6195e9c010d10fcbb8bc10a2ed354d.mp3 accd3d49c918dd10514dfe25dfc6e6eb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed McNamara, Regis C. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:54 Minutes ; 14:35 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55981">Interview with Regis C. McNamara</a> Subject LCSH McNamara, Regis C. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); University of Notre Dame; University of Notre Dame -- Football; Rockne, Knute, 1888-1931; World War--1939-1945; Engineers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; International Business Machines Corporation; Binghamton City Engineer Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Regis C. McNamara Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 27 April 1978 Dan: OK, Reggie, would you start out telling me about your life and experiences and working experiences in the community starting with your date and place of birth? Reggie: Well I was born in ah Pittsburgh, PA, February 2nd, 1908 and ah I lived, I lived there very shortly and I came to ah Binghamton, NY, during ah the First World War, about 1918 and ah all my preliminary education was in the Binghamton School system—I went to Thomas Jefferson School, grade school, and Binghamton Central High School and ah— Dan: Pardon me. [checks tape recorder] OK, go ahead. Reggie: I played ah ah I played ah football for the Binghamton Central High School and then from Central High School, I went to the University of Notre Dame and ah at that time ah Notre Dame had a ah worldwide reputation as a ah football school as well as a good educational school and I, I matriculated at the University of Notre Dame ah I can remember I paid ah my first year’s tuition out there which took care of my board, room and tuition was $800. I’d earned the $800 ah myself ah working as a newsboy for the Binghamton Press and as workin summers on various laboring jobs. Laboring jobs were mostly to keep in shape for football, were in the fall seasons. Ah while at Notre Dame ah my course was, I took up Civil Engineering and ah by playing football at Notre Dame, I played in two National Championships football teams in 1929 and 1930—that was under Knute Rockne. Dan: And who were some of your teammates, Reggie? Reggie: Ah the team ah some of my teammates were ah ah Frank Carrideo— Dan: Right. Reggie: —who was ah an All American and was one of the ah ah best ah place kickers and punters that I've ever seen in my career of watching football. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: Better than professional football like and ah I don't say that just because ah I knew Frank but for a long time in professional football they never believed in kicking out of bounds. Now, professional football has got back to kicking out of bounds but Carrideo had perfected it while he was at Notre Dame and he was a real professional when it came to kicking the ball out of bounds. Ah Marchie Swartz was another ah ah one of my players on that team. Marty Brill who was the ah—Swartz was the left halfback and Brill was the right halfback and ah we had a center was Tim Monahan and we had a couple of ends by the name of Cord and ah Marty Beezy and ah then ah I also played with what they called the shock troops during those days. Rockne had introduced the shock troops to football which was something new ah to football. The idea of the shock troops was that they would go in and play the first half, the shock troops, and try and wear down the opposition—then the other team would come in and try to score on the opposition. The shock troops were back in the third quarter with and the same idea in mind was to wear them down and then the other team would come in the fourth quarter with the hopes of scoring. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And it worked successfully for ah two seasons because we were National Championship in 1929 and 1930. Dan: Uh huh—they didn't have the platoon system at that time? Reggie: No, there was no platoon system, you played ah both ways. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: You played on offense and defense. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah one of the things that ah I really believed in those days and I think they should change in the ah back to it and that was the leather helmet. The ah leather helmet was safe and it gave you plenty of protection to any blows to the head.  Dan: Umum. Reggie: As a matter of fact, in those days, they used to allow the opponents to hit you on the head. Today you can't hit your opponent on the—it's been ruled out and still they have these ah plastic helmets which do more damage than do good. The point of ah the opponents use the plastic helmets to ah to hit your opponent on the arms or legs or in the stomach and oftentimes you can bruise a muscle that would put a player out for maybe a month or two or even break an arm or so with a plastic helmet and to me I see no reason why they should use a plastic helmet today, ah. Dan: What position did you play, Reggie? Reggie: I played left tackle. Dan: Left tackle. Reggie: Left tackle and ah the other player that played right tackle on the shock troops was Frank Leahy, who later became ah the coach of Notre Dame and was the second coach ah in the history of football that had a record similar to Rockne's. Rockne, as far as I'M concerned and it maybe ah it may be a football record—Rockne was the first coach and then I believe Leahy was the second, had the best record in football. I'm not sure of that but ah that's my recollection remembrance ah Frank was ah ah a fella that got hurt very easily. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: He ah I believe his first year at Notre Dame he was a center and he ah got hurt—he got hurt and was out most of the season and when he played ah tackle, he got hurt too and ah ah and when his football days were over, he spent some time at Mayo Clinic with Rockne and they were both in the hospital at the same time and ah I believe that’s where Leahy got the desire to become a coach and also got a lot of Rockne's ah secrets. Dan: Now Rockne died in 1931. Reggie: It was 1931. Dan: 31. Reggie: Yeah when Rock— Dan: And who succeeded him? Reggie: Hunk Anderson. Dan: Hunk Anderson. Reggie: Succeeded Rockne—Hunk at the time was the ah was the ah was one of the assistant coaches that coached the line. Dan: I see. Reggie: And then he succeeded Rockne and they had another player there—was a backfield coach, Jack Sheven, who was later killed in the World War II ah Jack was a great player and also a great coach at Notre Dame. Dan: Uh huh—what kind of a man was Rockne, personally? Reggie: Rock was a, he was, he was a nice guy to ah, ah to meet. Matter of fact everybody, everybody liked him when they met him but he was a real tough man when it came to teaching young guys on the football team—in other words you were only out there for maybe an hour and a half or two hours practicing and it was all, all work—there was no such thing as play—it was all work. Dan: Now you spoke of your first year—it cost you $800 room and board, did they have such a thing as scholarships in those days? Reggie: They had scholarships in those days but not, not too many. I can remember ah—I didn't have a scholarship when I went out there—I went out there because I heard of Notre Dame's reputation—well I thought I'd take a chance. Dan: I see. Reggie: And ah the first day when we were supposed to report to football, it was on a Sunday and to get our uniforms and so I think there was something like ah a thousand guys in line to get a football suit and ah I finally, I was, was told to get over there early and ah I was about 50th in line and ah—No, I was about 10th in line. I, I and then the coach, Rockne, came over with the Freshman football coach and ah he said, now ah our Freshman football coach that year was Bo Poliski—he had been a tackle on the Notre Dame team the previous year and he told Bo, he says, “Bo, you go up and down this line and pick out some fellas you think can ah make your Freshman football," and ah Rockne picked out one guy himself and says, "Some guys like this," and then ah Bo started to ah pick the men out and ah there must have been 50 guys in the next line. Bo finally picked me out—I think that's the only way I got a uniform because he picked me out. Dan: Yeah—you played football all four years you were there? Reggie: Ah yes, yes I did—I played Freshman and my 3 years as Sophomore, Junior and Senior, then I was later—ah I didn't graduate when I was supposed to in '32 so I had an extra year and ah I was, I helped coach the Freshman team out there. We ah we taught, we had in those days—the Freshmen used to play just one game—it’s like a reward for them ah efforts of being banged around by the Varsity all year long. Today I think they do play a schedule—in those days, they just played the one game. Dan: Umum. Now after your graduation from Notre Dame, where did you go, Reggie? Reggie: Well ah I went ah, my father was living in Pittsburgh at the time and I went home to Pittsburgh. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And ah that was in 1932, ‘33, 1933 and that was at the height of the Depression and ah I had no, I had no job or anything—no prospects of getting any job ah but at about that time the ah the professional team of the Pittsburgh Steelers was formed and ah I ah I had a tryout with the Steelers. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah I didn't, I didn't make the team but—[Wife reminds him of 3 o'clock appointment]—I didn't, I didn't make the team but ah ah I remember the salaries that they paid. They used to pay $50 a game. If you had made it, of course you'd get paid $50 a game and they had I think they had three stars on the team that were under contract—what they got I don't know but the rest of the fellows, it was $50 a game. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah course today the Pittsburgh Steelers is quite a team. Dan: Oh they are, they are. Reggie: But ah then I, I as I say, I couldn't, I couldn't get ah work in Pittsburgh, I finally came back to Binghamton and my first job was ah working for ah IBM and ah as I say I was a graduate engineer from the University of Notre Dame. I couldn't get a job as an engineer and there was a, I was able to ah talk my way in with the assistance of some friends and I got a job with IBM for $20, or what did I tell you I was getting. Dan: 50, 40 or 50. Reggie: Ah let’s see now, $2.00, I was getting $2 an hour, that was it. Dan: $2.00 an hour. Reggie: $2.00 an hour, yeah I think that’s what I got, I think. Dan: Was it a forty hour week? Reggie: Yes it was a forty hour week. Dan: So you were getting $80 a week? Reggie: Something like that. Dan: Yeah—that was what year, about '34 or '35, Reggie? Reggie: Ah I think it was around '34. Dan: '34. Reggie: ‘34 or ‘5. Dan: Was—what job did you do down there? Reggie: Oh I was what you call a pickup boy—I picked up material, putting them on a truck and delivering to one department and delivering them to another department. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Reggie: It wasn't my profession as an engineer. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: Well I finally the ah I got a job in the ah the New York State Department at Chenango Valley State Park as an engineer.  Dan: What year was that? Reggie: That was about 1935, I believe. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: I worked along with the CCC boys. Dan: Oh yes. Reggie: Teaching them surveying and then also doing design work for the Parks Department and then ah after that ah I would ah—I'd some work for the Army engineers and then after that I worked for the City of Binghamton. Dan: What year did you start with the City? Reggie: Ah I think it was 1922 that I first started. Dan: Ah, no. Reggie: Oh wait a minute, not ‘22 ah was just before the War, 1942. Dan: 1942. Reggie: 1942, yeah—I worked for the City as Deputy City Engineer and then ah later on I became the City Engineer. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And I was 16 years City Engineer of the City of Binghamton. Dan: Umum. Now all told how many years were you with the City? Reggie: I think it totaled up something like 22 years. Dan: 22 years. Reggie: 22 years I was with the City. Dan: Uh huh. Did you go into Service at all? Reggie: Yes, ah ah I left the, I left the City when I was Deputy City Engineer to ah join the Navy and ah I took my indoctrination at Harvard University and ah I was assigned to Corpus Christi ah flying aviation field and ah from there I ah, I, I wasn't in what they call a construction battalion at that time but later joined up with the construction battalions and from there ah from Corpus Christi I was sent overseas as a Lieutenant in charge of what they call a CBMU, that's a Construction Battalion Maintenance Unit, that was five officers and 200 men and ah I was the Commanding Officer, and I spent time in the Pacific area in Wallace Island and ah ah British Samoa. Then after I came out of the Pacific, I spent time with ah ah down in New Orleans ah as a Public Works officer down there. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And then I was honorably discharged and ah I came back to Binghamton and ah I started a consulting engineering business and I worked at that for a while and then I was ah I became a City Engineer. Dan: City Engineer. Reggie: City Engineer of the City of Binghamton. Dan: Uh huh, but you were an assistant at first—right? Reggie: I was the Deputy City Engineer. Dan: Deputy. Reggie: Yes. Dan: Uh huh and that was prior to the War and right after—you got a leave of absence to enter the War? Reggie: That’s right, yeah. Dan: OK, yeah, and what was your salary starting out as a Deputy, Reggie, if it's not too personal? Reggie: No, it's not too personal. I'm trying to think ah it wasn't very much ah it seems like it was around maybe $8000 a year, something like that. Dan: And then as a Civil Engineer at the time of your retirement, what had it gone to? Reggie: Well ah as a even as City Engineer I think I only made ah as high as 12 or $13,000. Dan: Is that right? Now was this a Civil Service position? Reggie: No. Dan: You didn't have to take— Regrie: No it was an appointive position. Dan: And you were appointed by who? Reggie: I was appointed by Don Kramer who was the Mayor at that time. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And I think that was in 19, 1955, I believe. Dan: 1955 and you retired—what year? Reggie: Ah well I didn't retire—I was the ah the ah opposition party that had control of ah City Hall I think it was in 1960. That would make it about 16 years anyhow or ‘66, something like that, ‘66, 1966 and ah they appointed their Engineer so then I went back to my consulting engineering business. Dan: I see, yeah. Reggie: And then I worked at that for a while and from there I ah I had various positions ah with the New York State—I worked in the New York State Office of General Service. I worked on the, as an engineer, on the Municipal or State Office building over here in the center of Binghamton and from there I ah worked on various ah ah buildings like the new Post Office building—I worked for an architect on that and then I worked on for the Broome ah up here on Glenwood Avenue. Dan: Oh yeah, the retarded to the Broome Developmental Center. Reggie: No. Dan: Or was it BOCES? Reggie: No not BOCES, it’s the school for the— Dan: The retarded. Reggie: The retarded children. Dan: Yeah—that's Broome Developmental. Reggie: Oh is that what it is? Dan: Yeah. Reggie: Well I worked on that ah for one of the contractors I guess and then later after that I worked for the New York State Housing and Community Development ah ah as a Code Engineer. Dan: I see—did you work in conjunction with Dorothy Titchner at all? Reggie: No. Dan: You didn't? Reggie: No. Dan: Because she was the Housing Authority. Reggie: She was the Housing Authority and ah no my, you see my area working for the housing ah people were in the Code Sections. Dan: Code Sections. Reggie: Yes and I used to travel the ah western section of New York State to visit building inspectors to ah answer any questions they may have concerning the New York State building code. Dan: I see. Reggie: And then after that I ah, I retired. Dan: Uh huh—that was in what year would you say? Reggie: Well let’s see about 3 years now ah. Dan: 3 years—'75. Reggie: About '75. Dan: Yeah but as a civil engineer, what was your duties—the City Engineer? Reggie: Well as City Engineer you were responsible ah to see ah that the streets were properly paved, new sewers were put in ah repairs of ah of ah structures and also the building of new structures, the letting of contracts for incinerators, water filtration plants, sewage disposal plants. D an: Uh huh so you worked probably with ah Charlie Costello. Reggie: No ah ah at that time the Water Superintendent was Cy Carmen. Dan: Oh is that right? Reggie: Yeah Cy Carmen was the Water Superintendent and I worked a lot with Cy. Dan: I see. Reggie: But ah— Dan: Did you have anything to do with the downtown urban renewal? Reggie: Oh yes ah as one of the officers in the City Administration ah the City Engineer was on the ah board—it was called the Urban Renewal Board and there was the City Engineer, the Mayor first, the Mayor was the chairman and the City Engineer, the Corporation Counsel, the Comptroller and ah I believe there was one other—there was 5 altogether that was on that board and ah we had to, we had to make certain decisions for urban renewal and ah I remember at the time ah the ah, ah the regional man, I can't remember his name now, he wanted me to take over the urban renewal and I, I turned it down. I didn't want any part of it although some engineers in other cities throughout the State did have both jobs—the City Engineer and also the Head of the Urban Renewal. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: I think Bill Green was the one that got the job—he took it over as Head of Urban Renewal. Dan: Yeah but you were in office when the ah Urban Renewal built the new Post Office. Reggie: Ah. Dan: That is the Brandywine Highway and new Post Office and all of that. Reggie: Well I was in office when all the ah I would say a great, a great ah majority of the construction was done during my 16 years. The arterial highways were all built during that time, ah the new Water Works was built, incinerator was built, the sewage disposal plant was built, the intercepting sewers were all built during my time as we built the ah we built a couple—we built one fire station, we built the Ely Park ah clubhouse up there so ah I remember it was a very active building time. Dan: It was because since then, it has been dormant. Reggie: “It has been dormant,” is correct. Dan: And what do you think of the prospects of Mondev—do you think that's going to go down the tube? Reggie: I really believe so. Dan: You really believe so. Reggie: I believe so, I think. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: I ah I don't think Mondev is sincere and ah the reason I say that is because ah Mondev has been trying to get every possible inch that they can and of course if I was in Mondev's shoes and was a builder, I would ah maybe do the same thing because they are trying to get every possible thing that they can get. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: And I think it's about time the City of Binghamton realizes that is all they're interested in and if they don't get everything that they want they'll just drop it like a hot potato. Dan: Well of course they have diminished the plans to the extent now that it doesn't make much difference whether they take it or leave it. Reggie: That's correct, that's correct. Dan: Of course in the meantime all the business has gone out to the Mall. Reggie: Right, right. Dan: Ah Reggie you mentioned that you were born in Pennsylvania. Reggie: Pittsburgh, PA. Dan: Pittsburgh, PA, and you came here in 1918 and for what reason did you come to Binghamton? Reggie: Well my father was connected with ah ah a tire company. Dan: Oh I see. Reggie: He ah it started out in Gallipos, Ohio, this tire company, and then it moved to Binghamton—it was called Achilles Rubber and Tire Company—it was located at the north end of Floral Avenue. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: Matter of fact it was the first tire company in the world or in the country that guaranteed their tire to go 10,000 miles. (laughter). Dan: So, so he stayed here then. Reggie: He stayed in Binghamton. Dan: And then you went, you went to Central and all your grammar school and everything. Reggie: Right. Dan: Your education was here in Binghamton. OK and do you belong to any clubs at all Reggie? Reggie: Yes I belong to the New York State Professional Engineers ah Society and also belong to the Knights of Columbus and of course the Notre Dame Alumni and also the Notre Dame Monogram Club. Dan: Umum. Reggie: I think that’s about the extent. Dan: That’s about the extent and you're married and how many children? Reggie: Married and I had two boys ah my youngest son was ah killed in an automobile accident and my oldest boy, John, is a professor at the University of Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. Dan: I see. Reggie: He's a clinical psychologist. Dan: Oh. Reggie: Doctor of Clinical Psychologist. Dan: Wonderful, wonderful, fine and you had your first grandchild this ah— Reggie: Just ah, let’s see, just a couple of weeks ago. Dan: Just a couple of weeks ago. (laughter). OK now is there anything else you would like to include in this interview Reggie before I terminate it? Reggie: No I don't think so. Dan: I think you have covered your working experiences quite well. Reggie: Yes I think I have. Dan: Uh huh but you were in office during the height of the building ah development of downtown. Reggie: Right, right. Dan: And since you left, why, it's and it was a politically appointed position. Reggie: I was, yeah, uh huh. Dan: OK fine—well thank you very much Reggie—would you like me to play this back for you? [Pause] Dan: Reggie you mentioned you wanted to make some corrections in the interview especially starting now with the starting salary you got when you first went to IBM. Reggie: Yes ah I mentioned I got $2.00 an hour well that was a mistake, I got 20 cents an hour at that time. Dan: OK and then you ah at Notre Dame. Re ie: Yes the other player I would like to mention I played with out at Notre Dame was ah ah Jumping Joe Savoldi who was an All American at Notre Dame and later he played with the Chicago Bears as a football player and then after that he went into wrestling and became the World's heavyweight champion wrestler and ah he defeated ah Strangler Lewis for the championship and that ah and in those days ah that was a regular championship match—as you know today wrestling is more of a— Dan: —a show. Reggie: —a show more than anything else but not in those days, they were championship matches. Dan: Right, right. Thank you Reggie. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date of Interview 1978-04-27 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Regis C. McNamara Subject The topic of the resource McNamara, Regis C. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); University of Notre Dame; University of Notre Dame -- Football; Rockne, Knute, 1888-1931; World War--1939-1945; Engineers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; International Business Machines Corporation; Binghamton City Engineer Description An account of the resource Regis C. McNamara talks about his education at the University of <a href="http://www.nd.edu">Notre Dame</a> and playing football under Knute Rockne.  During World War II he was a Lieutenant in the Construction Battalion Maintenance Unit. He worked for IBM and then as an engineer for New York State at Chenango Valley Park. He held the position of Deputy City Engineer for Binghamton before being appointed City Engineer by the then-mayor of Binghamton, Donald Kramer. He later held various positions with the State of New York and also as a private consultant. He discusses construction projects he worked on, such as, the Brandywine Highway, post office, a sewage disposal plant and a new water plant. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 44A ; Recording 44B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McNamara, Regis C. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-27 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:54 Minutes ; 14:35 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d70193fa64eba7966d0f5bde51a60dd1.mp3 d6c758aaf2037b7083f54c97eac3da93 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Burbank, Sarah Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-07-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 15:52 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55874">Interview with Sarah Burbank</a> Subject LCSH Burbank, Sarah -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Home economics teachers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Drexel University; Radio programs; Radio stations; Cooking School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Sarah Burbank Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 12 July 1978 Susan: Mrs. Burbank, could we begin this interview by having you tell us something about your early beginnings? Where you were born? Something about your parents, what they did, and your early life in the community? Sarah: Well, let’s go back a little further to my mother. Ah, Mother was ah, one of twelve children, Welsh, all Welsh, and ah, she went to, ah, Bloominburgh to a school to be a teacher and ah, my grandfather and grandmother were very interested in the Church, Congregational Church, and they used to entertain the, ah, minister, you know. Well, one day they had him at the house for dinner and, ah, he said to my grandfather, he said, "Oh, Mr. Jones, you have a wonderful family,” and my grandfather said, "But you haven't seen our Gertie." That was my mother, and as soon as Gertie came home he married her—I mean, not as soon, but they—they fell in love and he married her. Well, he was a Minister from Wales. He, ah, got his degree from Yale and ah, he got very sick. He died before I was born, and so mother of course went back to my grandmother's and, ah, she taught school and so my grandmother raised me. So that was the beginning, of course, of a spoil, because there were a lot of aunts and uncles and, ah, I loved my grandmother. I didn't like my mother much because she did discipline me. She wouldn't have me spoiled when she was home but grandma used to teach me things, and one thing—this table, which is a marble top table, she taught me how to dust it. I was dusting it, you know, just back and forth any old way and she said, "Oh look, you must go into those little holes there and dust it thoroughly,” that's one thing, and then she let me iron but I had to get the—the handkerchief straight and iron them straight, fold them perfectly straight, and I remember those things and I think they've stuck by me. Maybe made me a little prissy, I don't know, but I don't see the youngsters doing it nowadays, but ah, anyway mother married again and took me away from my grandmother, and at the time I didn't like it one bit but I can see now that it was better for me, and so ah, my father—I called him “Father”—stepfather was as good and better than some fathers I know. He was a wonderful man but, ah, Mother took out an insurance policy for me to go to school ’cause she had gone to school, and if I remember what she told me, it cost her $500 to go at her time. You're smiling. It doesn't seem possible, and then when I went she took out this policy for $1,000, which would come due when I was of age to go, and I went down to Drexel when I went to school. Susan: Drexel. Sarah: Drexel, Philadelphia to take Home Economics. At that time, I went in ’18 and I think—1918—that was a new course, and it wasn't thought too much of right then, cooking and sewing, you know, you could learn that at home. Well anyway I went there, and ah, I don't know whether I got through, ah, for a thousand dollars or not, but I know I helped to wait on table, ah, to make a little more money, and in those days I made $4.00 a week but it seemed like a fortune to me and, ah, well, that was in 1919. I had two years and then I went to teach in Pennsylvania, and Cockinville was the name of the place, down there near Philadelphia, and ah, I went for $1,000 a year, that's what I was paid, nine months, and then I moved up to, ah, Brooklyn, Pennsylvania, which was another little small, but then I taught this Home Economics, that was three years, and then I came to Binghamton, and I taught one year here, but then I was married and our daughter was born and I stayed home. Susan: What did Mr. Burbank do? Sarah: He was an insurance man for Prudential and ah, I, ah—I stayed home about five years, I think, until one day Mr. Maston, who was manager of WNBF here, the only radio station we had then, ah, called and asked me if I'd be interested in doing a cooking school of the air. I didn't know what it was all about, but you know youth, well I say, they're brash but they don't have any nerves and they're not afraid of anything. I wasn't then, but I said, "Well we'll try it," and we had to go through voice tests and reading tests and things like that, and finally we started. I thought it would be for, oh, a few weeks, because they had cooking schools in the schools. I mean they would have a woman come—Home Economics, and she would do it for two or three days, I don't know if you knew that or not, but then ah, I started and went on for a year and, ah, then they decided to just have it radio, and so from then on, well, I think I was doing that for twenty-one years. Susan: That long? Sarah: I thought it would be for about two years, but in the meantime of course my daughter was growing, but I was very fortunate to have a woman come in and take care of her when I was gone, you know, and I was able to do the work, ah, for the week. I mean, she would come clean through, you know, and if Rachel, my daughter, was sick, why, she would come over and stay with her while I was gone, but I wasn't gone too long doing radio, you know. Ah, well, the Cooking School of the Air finally went into television, and I didn't want to do that. I'd had—that's a lot of work. (Chuckle.) I don't want to do a lot of work, but you know—- Well, did you ever do any? Susan: No. Sarah: Well, you know what you have to do. I did it because I wanted everything to come out right. I had a girl helping me on the cooking school, and she'd help me here. We'd make something what we were going to do that day. We'd do it, oh, quite a few weeks ahead, because ah, we made a recipe folder to give out and they had to be printed and I had to try them first, then ah, we'd go down there the morning of the school—go down to the store. It was in McLean's Silver Salon up on the fifth floor. I'll bet you don't remember that either? Susan: No. Sarah: Well, they had their fashion shows and all sorts of things there, and then we'd do that in the morning again so the women could have it to taste, and then in the afternoon we'd do it in front of everybody, so it was too much work for the few of us who were doing it, you know, but of course we had sponsors, too, and we had to, well, we had to give them quite a bit of time. I think some days I'd have as many as seven or eight. Susan: You did your own commercials? Sarah: Yes, yes, and they would send them to me, the material, and then I could do it whichever way I wanted to, and that went through all the time I was on radio, but ah, it was very interesting. I enjoyed it very much meeting the people, you know, and I had guests on the—on the air, I had them on the cooking school, too, but it was a lot of fun. Susan: What was the name of your program? Sarah: The Sarah Burbank Show. Well, Mr. Maston thought that was best. I left it all up to them, I just did what they thought would be better, and that was, I can see now that was better, because we changed time, sometimes it would be fifteen minutes, and again they'd make it twenty minutes and change the format a little bit, but during that time my daughter, ah, grew up, graduated and from high school and from college. She went to St. Lawrence and then she married. Susan: What did she study? Sarah: Well, she studied business—business administration, but, but never did work at it, she got married, ah, she graduated in June and was married the next February, and ah, has two children, and I enjoy them so much, the grandchildren, they’re wonderful. We've had a very full life, my husband and I—we, ah, didn't do extensive traveling, but we went to Florida after we both retired, out to California, Canada, and just have a cottage, and so it's been a very full life—very enjoyable, and it's been wonderful. Susan: Are you active with any of the local clubs? Sarah: Not now, I was, ah—I was on the board of the YWCA for a while, and on the board of the Civic Club, too, and of course PTA when Rachel was in school, but ah, no others and not now, not too much now. Well, you know, you give over to the younger people and let them do the work now. It's only fair. Susan: True. Sarah: Yes, I think so, and ah, I don't feel as though I could do very much, that is, to keep on, you know, like I used to for the different clubs. Susan: Mrs. Burbank, it's been very nice chatting with you, and if you don't have anything more to add to this, why, I think we'll close the interview. Sarah: Fine. Susan: Thank you very much. Sarah: Thank you for coming. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sarah Burbank Subject The topic of the resource Burbank, Sarah -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Home economics teachers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Drexel University; Radio programs; Radio stations; Cooking School Description An account of the resource Sarah Burbank talks about her childhood and her fathers death prior to her birth, her education at Drexel University in Philadelphia, PA, and her experience teaching home economics in Binghamton, NY. She discusses her project 'Cooking School of the Air' by Mr. Marston, the manager of WNBF radio station that lasted 21 years. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 9 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Burbank, Sarah ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 15:52 Minutes