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Dublin Core
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Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
An account of the resource
The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
Identifier
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2
Rights
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In copyright
Contributor
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
Coverage
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1977-1978
Relation
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gallo, Barbara
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-01-24
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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34:15 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55925">Interview with Barbara Gallo</a>
Subject LCSH
Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Transcription
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Barbara Gallo</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 24 January 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK, Barbara, will you relate to me the life and working experiences of your father and uncle from the time of their immigration to the retirement in the community?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: My uncle Nick Gallo came over here in 1889 at the age of 19 years and he landed in New York and stayed there for a few months and then went to Scranton, PA, where he went into the, ah, stone cutting business with Mr. Frank Carlucci, who did a lot of work like that, and ah, one of the buildings that they, ah, were contracted to build was the new, the Courthouse, which now stands, ah, since the old one was burned own and Uncle Nick was the foreman on the job and, ah, I'm not certain whether he did much of the cutting there, but ah, later on, ah, then, ah, my dad, who was also had the trade as a stonecutter, ah, worked on the Press Building. On the doorway, and also, ah, did the work on the lions’ heads that are way up almost to the top of the building there, and his pay at that in those days was around $7 a day, which was quite high, and Uncle Nick, ah, after, gave up the work of stonecutting and married, ah, my Aunt Gussie Arrigoni, who owned a small store in the Moon Block, which was across from the Arlington Hotel. Then in 1914 he started this bank which was chartered by the State of New York—it was more of a savings bank than a commercial bank, which we now know. Ah, it was primarily for Italian immigrants—they had, ah, great trust in my uncle and would ask him to hold their money for them, and so with this he formed this bank, and then I guess he had the bank for about 12 or 14 years, and in 1926 he retired to Italy and gave up most of his assets that he had here, with the idea of staying, remaining in Italy. Then he did return to, ah, the United States, into Binghamton—he was involved politically with, ah, Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the State of New York at the time, and he did much in the way of getting people to, the Italian citizens here to get out and vote so they would exercise their American citizenship, and he was, ah, a member of the Elks Club at the time and also ah Knighted by the King of Italy in, after, ah, World War I for his, whatever help that he contributed at the time towards—what would you say?—a better world, anyway, and then, ah, in 1930 or something he retired again.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Did he do anything when he came back after—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No, he remarried. He was retired—it was only, you know, politically, ah, involved.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Politically involved—in other words, in 1930 he just, ah, severed all relations entirely.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: With the business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: But he did have, also, at the time that he had the bank, he did have a wholesale grocery and, ah, this steamship agency, which, when he did retire, turned the steamship agency over to my dad, Michael. Ah, Michael came here in the later 1800s, around 1896 or so, and he worked, as I say, on the Press building there, but then—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: When did—he came directly from Italy to Binghamton?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No, he went to Scranton also.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, he went to Scranton and worked for the same contractor your uncle did?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Then the reason he came to Binghamton was the Press building job?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Right, right, but because of the—he had to give that up because of, ah, physical, ah, ailments that he acquired through, I guess, ah, the dust from the stone there, I suppose.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barhara: He then gave that up and, ah, returned to Italy for a matter of just probably a couple of years or so, and he came back here in 19, ah, 1915, I believe it was. He married my mother, Rose Arrigoni, and they together had this wholesale grocery, and after a few years he was able to, ah, put aside some money and built the building there on Fayette Street, and they moved their grocery store over to that building there and that’s where it remained for about 40-some years, and together with that he had this steamship agency and the money exchange, which was a great help to the Italian community at that time. Mother, although she was American born, was very fluent in the Italian language and, ah, was often used as an interpreter for a lot of these Italian people—especially like going to the doctor or for legal purposes. Many times she would go to the, ah, where they would get their citizenship and, ah, help them in that way and explaining things to them, and she was quite active in church too. Which, going back to my Uncle Nick, was instrumental in getting the Italian, ah, Church of St. Mary’s of the Assumption here, ’cause there was a need for it at the time, see, and this community was increasing and therefore they, ah, worked with some other Italian people and was able to get the church started here.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now you mentioned, ah, Barbara, that your Uncle Nick married your Aunt Gussie—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Arrigoni—there were two sisters married to two brothers.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That’s what I was going to ask you—two sisters married two brothers, and was Gussie a native of the United States, or was she born—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: She was, she was the only, ah, the only child that was born over there—all the rest of the Arrigonis.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, she was born over there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes, but she came here like two years old or—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, I see. They got married here, though?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes, yes, they were married here.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And Rose was your, ah, was your mother—ah, she had her own store, her own business, is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No, no, my Aunt Gussie.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, Gussie, Gussie had it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Gussie had a candy store—they made candies and things. That’s where I guess they used to see each other.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: But she gave that up when—ah, did she retain that when your uncle had the bank?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: She gave that up?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Then they had a child.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: She was, you might say, more or less retired in that business there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see. So your dad, primarily, outside of the job he did on the Press building, did most of his—most of his time in the wholesale, in the retail—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Eventually went into the retail business because he used to go around as a wholesaler, he used to supply, ah, some of the restaurants and even places out of town with Italian food.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Like macaroni, which were all imported, and he did have his own brand on the merchandise—tomatoes, macaroni, and oil—called Gallo brand, which represented the—the label was a rooster, which meant Gallo.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And he used to have that for quite a few years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And your dad retired at what age, Barbara? Or what year, do you know?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: He retired about the age of 82.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: About 82.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: About 82, because he was sick for about 8 years. He was 90 when he died.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And how old was your uncle when he died, remember?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: My uncle was 83 and he died around 1954 in Italy—he retired, he was there when he died.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, he went back to Italy then. Oh, then he died over there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Ah, in, after WWII, 1942 or 1943, when the war ended, his daughter, who had resided there in Naples, Italy, came back here and, ’cause they were on in years and, ah, ah, she was wanted her parents to be with her, and it was so logical for them to go there, so they gave up their home here and retired there, and the only—my aunt died the same year, I think.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Over there, and my uncle died the following year.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh so your Aunt Gussie is, ah, and your uncle are buried over in Italy. OK, now you say your dad worked on the, your uncle worked on the Courthouse as a foreman, and of course I guess they, prior to that they had a fire at the Courthouse.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I believe it was sort of a wooden structure in the early times.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Something like that—I saw a picture of it in the </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susquehanna</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;"> this past week or so, and ah, I suppose it had to be restored.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Like the columns and all are, see, are all stone, and they needed to be shaped. Things, I don't believe, in those days, were brought in already made.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: No—true, true.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: ’Cause, ah, like I say, my dad always talked about the work on the Courthouse. ’Course he did other work, you know, in other places. This was one of his pride and joy, I guess, and ah, like grapes around the archway, and then up above are the lions’ heads, which are rather large and he had to do it up there from a solid piece of granite.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And, ah, it was all done on scaffolding, which they had to put up.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: So it’s all by hand.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: All by hand and chisel.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Gee.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It was their trade from Italy and their reason for coming here was just, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: How long did it take him to complete that archway on the Press building?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It took him about four months to complete that archway on the Press building.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You don't know how long, as far as the lions’ heads—it probably took longer to do that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Oh, it was longer than that, because like you say, they, ah, just, they were, if you could see them, their fangs or whatever they had are real long, like the length of an arm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah, uh huh. Did he work on any other Kilmer property at all?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I don't recall—-ah, this was just, you know, what they would tell us from time to time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh. And your dad took over the steamship agency and the money exchange from your uncle after he retired, and the bank was just closed.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: The bank had to be dissolved.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah, OK. Now the, in the building of St. Mary’s Church of the Assumption—ah, that, of course, was a National church, and your uncle was instrumental in getting that started.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: In getting that started.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: As a fundraiser, or—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: As a fundraiser and in other ways, you know.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: This is going back before your time, Barbara—you don't know who built the church, do you?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: You mean, you mean, ah, the architect?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No, I don't off hand.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, Father Pelligrini was the first Pastor.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barhara: The first Pastor, and remained so until 1951, I believe. He was the one and only man and the Italian community used to, ah, hear Mass with him as Pastor down in the basement of St. Mary’s on Court Street until our church was finished—completed—but there was, way back, we used to have what they call the August 15th celebration, which for St. Mary’s, which was a fundraising thing. It was known throughout the Southern Tier.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You mean the Bazaar?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well, it wasn’t really so much a bazaar as it is now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: It was the Feast of the Assumption.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It was a feast, but it was called a Field Day.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And it was done out and they used to have people from all over come, and fireworks and things, but it was primarily a fundraising to help complete the cost of the building.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is there any occupation in particular that the, ah, Italians indulged in more than anything else? Did they have a particular trade that they brought over with them? I mean, in other words—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: You mean the Italians.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: The Italian community, in other words.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Most of them were contracting.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Contractors.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Must have been the majority of them were contractors—that was what they knew best.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, it seemed to be that barbering was quite a popular trade too in Italy, because a lot of the barbers that I know and acquainted with have all been Italians.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: There were probably a lot of cities like, you know, they learned that trade, of course there’s a lot of roadways in Italy and they were good at it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: As a matter of fact, like, ah, Dad’s uncle and his dad were, ah, worked on the Amulfi Drive in Italy, which is famous now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Where is that? Is that in Salerno?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It runs along the, along the coast of Italy. Sorrento all the way down, I don't know exactly where it starts—it’s below Naples somewheres it starts.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And it’s all along the mountainside.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see, and you say it's famous, you say, for what particular reason?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Because of the way it’s built.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It’s sheer mountainside and there isn't much room for cars to go through, especially the present day cars. If there are two cars coming, one will have to back down.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: In other words, it was built for a horse and buggy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Probably, but it overlooks the ocean—you can see that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now you spoke of an uncle—ah, how many brothers were there in the family?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Now I'm not certain of it, I thought there, ah, I thought they said there was ten brothers.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Ten—large family—and were they all stonecutters?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Now are you referring to my dad's family itself, or just uncles? They started, but the uncles, his uncles.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, it started with his uncle, I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And his father.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: How many, how many worked on the roadway of the family, including not just brothers but also relatives of your uncle?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: That I don't know.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: That goes back quite a way.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: But you say there was ten in your uncle’s family or your dad’s family.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: My dad's father had quite a few brothers.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, I see, I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: But my dad's family, there was three brothers and five sisters, and they all came, all but one, one brother, immigrated to the United States.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And one to South America.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Were they all stone masons, stonecutters? Did they all take up that same trade?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: That was a trade there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah. OK, well is there anything else that you can add, Barbara, looking over your notes, you might have overlooked?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: This is all, like I say, just what we can remember from their talking about it at times.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now the bank was located where, ah?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Ah, at 168 Henry Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: 168 Henry, and ah, your dad's grocery store was on Fayette Street, right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: At two different locations. The final one was where he remained for forty-some years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: In other words, the one that is standing now at 9 Fayette Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I think for the, ah, they did quite well, considering, you know, ah, you might say the handicap at first, you know—the language—but my Uncle Nick, ah, spoke English well. They were both educated, I mean, they had as far as high school in Italy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: When your uncle was Knighted, that gave him a title?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Gave him a title of Cavalier, which at that time was quite something to have.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, did you tell me what year that was he was Knighted, Barbara? I don't know whether I have that down here or not.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It was after World War, World War One. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: WWI.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara : Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: So it was after 1918, 1919, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: They had quite a banquet there for him—some of the civic leaders there, which was nice, but Uncle Nick was a great help to the, ah, as I say, the Italian community.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Well that’s good, I mean when the immigrants came over, you know, and especially, you know, don't know the language, why it’s nice to have somebody they can fall back on.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Dad, during the Depression, was a great help to people, because they were in need and many, many times he, ah, would let them, you know, run up bills because they just didn't have the funds.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Sure.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And people were very good—they trusted him and then they appreciated it, and ah, I have even people now that come, sometimes I meet them and they'll, you know, have a great fondness for my dad. Like I say, he helped them when they needed help, which is a sort of joy for me to hear that, you know, he is still remembered in that way.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right, right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I think that was when he was 90, but I don’t know what else.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK, Barbara, well I certainly appreciate your taking your time out to be interviewed. Would you like me to run it back for you?</span></p>
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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Interview with Barbara Gallo
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Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse
Description
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Barbara Gallo discusses her father's and uncle's emigration from Italy, their moves from New York City to Scranton, PA and their work as stonecutters on the Press Building and the Broome County Courthouse. Her uncle established a private bank primarily for other Italian immigrants and a steamship agency to aid immigrating Italians. She details her uncle's return to Italy and his later re-immigration to Binghamton, NY where he became politically involved with Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the New York State [Board of Regents]. He worked with Italian immigrants assisting them with voting, and was instrumental in establishing St. Mary's of the Assumption. He later retired and returned to Italy. Gallo's father established a wholesale grocery store and later took over the steamship agency.
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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Recording 27
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Gallo, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan
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1978-01-24
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2016-03-27
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Broome County Oral History Project
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34:15 Minutes
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
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Broome County -- History
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Binghamton University Libraries
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Oldwine, Barbara
Interviewer
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O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-03-01
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes
Streaming Audio
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55985">Interview with Barbara Oldwine</a>
Subject LCSH
Urban League; Planned Parenthood; Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Barbara Oldwine</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 1 March 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Barbara, would you tell me something about your life and working experiences in the community starting from the time of birth—OK?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I was born in the City of Binghamton at Binghamton General Hospital and the first place that I could call home was 20 Front Street, which was on the corner of Front and Riverside Drive. It would be interesting to know that the old Memorial—the Memorial Bridge that we now know in 1978 was not up then, so in order to get to the west side, you crossed Court Street Bridge. I stayed there as a girl until I moved to 24, pardon me, 41 Broad Avenue, which is in the 12th Ward. My education began at Alexander Hamilton School—kindergarten—it was Miss Manning as the principal. In Junior High I went to West Junior. I there had a half a term at Central and graduated from North High in February, 1941—we had midterm graduations at that time. I left Binghamton then and went to Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee where I earned my Bachelor’s Degree, magna cum laude. My degree was History and English and like many women at that time, I was married to a serviceman who was at many places never dreaming that we would live back in Binghamton. When it was his decision to go to school under the G.l. Bill, we moved back to Binghamton in the house of my parents at 41 Broad Avenue—stayed there until we bought the home on Gaylord Street. Following his education, my husband became associated with IBM. He was the third Black man ever hired by that corporation. My career began with the Department of Social Services ah then known as the Welfare Department. Lounsberry was the Mayor and Mr. Robinson was the Commissioner and our office then was at 71 Collier Street which is now a big City parking ramp in 1978. I worked continuously for the Social Services Department for some 32 years and it was merged with the County under the direction of Mr. Libous and Mr. Crawford. When we talk about what I faced in the community as a member of the group of Black Americans and what minority problems we might have had, it might be interesting to know that one of he first things to happen while I was a Field Worker in the Department of Social Services—an applicant recipient called the agency and decided that they did not wish to be interviewed—to participate in a cash grant—if the interviewer was going to be a Black American. Mr. Robinson informed them that the interviewer was fine, based on ability and they were needed in the program that they must be interviewed, and that ended that confrontation or that problem, handled directly by the Administration. The most difficult time Neil and I faced was a returning couple to the community needing a place to live, having made a decision to first live with parents while he was getting the Degree and Percy Rex was Rector of my church—Trinity Memorial Episcopal—corner of Oak and Main at that time and he appealed to landlords who had been people who owned property that were members of our church, to give an apartment to this young couple—returning G.I. and veteran and his wife and we wouldn’t be strangers because I had been baptized in Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church in infancy and gone to that entire church, to the church school—my husband and I had married there and it had been our first child—it had then been ah born ah baptized there but no one came forward to give us a house and that was rather scarring and very hurting. Our decision then that we would move into the Veterans’ temporary housing, which was on the McArthur Tract and these people will recall was just the old quonset hut—McArthur School is now standing there—but they were operated by the City of Binghamton and although discrimination had first been observed in Veterans' Housing ah the first group of veterans who tried to move into the housing over on the Webster Court area and I think if you would recalled one—the veterans had to pitch a tent on the Courthouse lawn—that man was John Scanks and he too had served in WWII but he had broken the barrier so when Neil and I moved into temporary housing for veterans on McArthur ah Tract, we did not face any problem at that point. Our then goal was to face sufficient money to use the G.I. Bill and get a loan and purchase a home since renting was not possible. Well it wasn’t an easy task to purchase the home—the small down payment that we had at Binghamton Savings—I'm sure the loan people or the people of the accounts there wondered what Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were doing because we kept drawing $500 out on one day and putting it back on the next. What was happening was we were taking the money in good faith when we had gone with the real estate broker to look at property to try to purchase a modest home and the owner would decide then that even though they were not going to reside in the home themselves, they were going to sell and move away, that their neighbors would not want to have a young Black American couple there and of course at that time we did not have the laws against discrimination on the books of the State of New York and this was exercised several times against Neil and I and I think I have to give credit to a man by the name of Mr. Balin, who was a real estate dealer in the locality who came upon a home which we now still occupy, that was in an Estate and we were able to purchase this modest home at 24 Gaylord Street without any difficulty and we were given the ah G.I. Loan though the Binghamton Savings Bank—Mr. ah Cornelius is the President and we faced no discrimination in getting the loan at that time. An interesting thing happened to us as we became residents of Gaylord Street, 12th Ward Bingahmton—had two small girls then—one 6 and one 4—oldest girl was Eileen, our youngest daughter was Valerie and I went to business and I had a wonderful woman, Mrs. Stringham, as my housekeeper who came each day to assist me with the children and part of her plan was to take our 4 year old at 10 o'clock in the morning—walk and entertain her and let her have fresh air and one of my neighbors across the street had a 4 year old, whose grandmother was the loving, caring person but when Mrs. Stringham would bring Valerie out to play, this other grandmother would take this other 4 year old back in and I thought badly about that because what do 4 year olds know? They probably would have just played dolls and pushed carriages and Mrs. Stringham, who was my trusted housekeeper, ah was really concerned about that because she was a white American who was helping me to care for my children and the neighbors who always took their children in, were also white Americans—but you know that soon passed ’cause the children started playing and it didn't matter how the adults felt. They transcended that misunderstanding. We've lived on Gaylord Street now approximately 20 years and I couldn’t have better neighbors or more caring people. We are doing things together now that all neighbors do—help with the snow, get cars unshoveled—particularly conscious of that in this weather, take collections when somebody dies, cook a cake when a baby is born and rejoice and those things that were so terrible for that neighborhood in 1952, when Black Americans first came, really passed. They found out that Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were going to work, make a living, mow grass, raise children, have sadness and happiness, and we've really become a strong unit on Gaylord Street and with people loving and caring about each other.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Fine ah now you mentioned that when you first got married you moved in with your ah parents?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And ah did they own their own home?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes they did.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Did they have any trouble acquiring that?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Unfortunately the story about my father and mother acquiring the house on Broad Avenue ah is rather gruesome. My father and mother ah came to Binghamton in 1920 and it’s an interesting story because ah they were living in Manhattan and had to catch the Ferry and had to go to Hoboken and get on the old D.L. & W. so indeed they were immigrants. They were coming from Brunswick County, Virginia, and had worked in Manhattan but after that, placed in the mail by Mrs. Dunn—Mabel Dunn ah guess it was Mabel Dunn Eggleston, because she had been married to Dr. Eggleston who was a psychiatrist that had passed. The plan was that my parents, Mary E. and William A. Harris, would be the caretaker and housekeeper for her at 20 Front Street, because she was going to go abroad and she made an interesting plan. She would pay the way from Manhattan to Binghamton—they would work the year—they were satisfied they could stay—if they were dissatisfied, she would give them the fare back to New York and they could seek other employment. Well, needless to say, my parents came in 1920 and my dear father passed in 1973 and my mother is still alive and they made Binghamton their home. Now when he took a job with Mrs. Welden, part of your wages was to have ah quarters as caretaker but my father was an ambitious man and knew this was a satisfactory plan but you needed to have your roots and roots were acquired by property. He had come from a farm family that owned ground in Brunswick County, Bracey, Virginia, and he was able to save and he sought to purchase the house on 41 Broad Avenue approximately in the year 1931 and everybody will remember Mr. Bauman as a great real estate dealer ah Sec—located in Security Mutual and his wife—his son is now the surgeon Dr. Bauman here locally and ah he found no harm in taking my father's hard earned money that had been saved and purchased 41 Broad Avenue—but it came to the attention of my father that the neighbors in that community wrote a letter to then Mr. Benjamin F. Welden, who was the President of Sisson Brothers, Welden Company. Mrs. Eggleston had been married to Mr. Welden and they had suggested that Mr. Welden would make certain that my father would cease and desist in purchasing the property on 41 Broad Avenue. Well, of course, Mr. Welden had no such plan as my father’s earnings and conserving his savings and ah Mr. Bauman had made the arrangement as a real estate dealer so my parents then did purchase the home. Now we did have some unpleasant circumstances in that neighborhood in that ah people again didn't wish to speak, and I don't know why that was, but when WWII came by—many young men left and went to the Service. My Father was called in the draft but not assigned and people found out what a wonderful man he was because when young sons and young husbands were away, he could help women that were left alone and ah this became very very important for his role in the neighborhood as a caring, loving person. My Mother was rather in a quiet, reserved woman and her whole life was her family and her home and she had it beautiful and that’s what women cared about and they found out that she was just like they were. She did all the things—she baked cookies and she got her daughter ready for Girl Scouts and she sang on the church choir and she went to the ah church association that women went to—the Altar Guild—and ah she my mother always was an employed woman as a team with my father—just so special and so and people had to learn to understand and love people being Black and they had not understood yet—maybe it was their fault.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum—have you found things changed now?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: You know, it is rather insidious the way there is still a great deal of misunderstanding for people and people are sort of scrambling for their own rights and not really understanding that you can't have human rights for yourself if you can't have human rights for everybody. I want to talk about having my ah children come to the Public School system of the City of Binghamton. I consider that they got an excellent education because they were both equipped and prepared to go on to the University. Ah my daughters ah both became ah part of the band at North High and Eileen was a Standard Bearer for the banner that said North High Standard Bearer and my daughter Valerie played in the band and came home one day—“I'm not going to do that anymore, I'm going to do that anymore, I’m going to carry the American flag, I'm 5’9”, I’M the tallest girl”—and that gave us great pleasure to see young Black American women walking in front of the band. That only began with the generation that was represented by my daughter. You heard me talking about Mr. Scanks—his daughter Constance really opened that up at North High for young Black women to be a part of that and then ah other young women that came by ah—Kennedy family had a wonderful young daughter that was in that and Mrs. McGill had a young daughter Carmine and these young women—generation with my daughter, just broke that down that at North High. At Central, it was a little different ah Allan Cave was our President or Principal at McArthur School—his sister June was one of the first gym Black women to be ever selected to be Queen of all the students like at the Senior High level ah and that’s a breakthrough. Now sororities, good or bad—young people have them - I don't recommend them because it excludes people but you know young people make that decision and my daughter Eileen pledged for a sorority and didn’t make it and that rather broke her heart because the sorority hadn't taken young Black women in but then they came along with Valerie and Valerie became Miss New York State Teenager and every sorority wanted Valerie. So what she did, she said, “I will pledge if you pledge my sister,” and then that broke that down and then all sororities started pledging and all fraternities started pledging. That passed with children in that generation which was about the year ah let’s see our children should have been pledged in sororities ah—late ’60s and ah it’s hard to understand why young people and older people can't relate—can’t really understand what our goals are which is to be human beings, seek jobs, live a fair honest life of quality, but there is ah some insidious, insidious discrimination in this community that can 't be controlled by Law. Give you an example—my husband going to work at IBM. Now here's a man who's been in the Army 5 years and he's been away at college and he's home with one baby and he wants to start his life again—he is ah 28 years old—not a boy. In the first year he worked at International Business Machines, other than his manager and setup man, men did not say, "Good morning," or ask about the ball scores or, “how is your wife and the baby?” Now that is pretty tough for a man to go do any assignment because you’re awake there more than you are at anyplace else and the way we face this as a team because Neil’s goal at IBM was a cross to bear. Everybody wishes to be liked but his was to do a good job, receive and advance in promotion to provide for his wife and child and that took some doing because Neil, probably if he went now with the opportunities that are at the International Business Machines and their fair employment practice, he would be a manager. He was born too soon for that but it afforded a good living, and later on they began to find out what a magnificent man Cornelius Oldwine was—how well he did his job and how he was always prompt and quiet and prepared and frank—willing to help another man—a caring person and now it’s really different.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is he still working there?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes—he hasn't retired yet. We started to work very early ah and ah Neil’s 58 but he feels that he will continue to work perhaps until he is 60 or 62 and he, God has been good to us—we are in fine health and he is at the lab in IBM and he loves his job. Similar to my job—now I have been with Social Services ah see if I went in ’46 and this is '78, I have to have 32 years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: 32 years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And you know with the Government, after 55 years of age, you can retire but I love my job.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan : And how old are you Barbara?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: 55.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: 55.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And I feel well respected. Mr. SanFillipo is our current Commissioner, Mr. Dimitri was our immediate past Commissioner and I feel very well respected by the people that I work for and people who work with me and that’s and that’s a privilege.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: What’s your, what’s your title with the Social Sec—Social—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Social Services Department—I'm a Supervisor.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Supervisor.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: But in Medicaid only.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Just for Medicaid?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Only.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That’s right, I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Big assignment—right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Sorry—you’re working.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Ah, now when you first went to work there 32 years ago ah how did the ah—Do you know how Social Services began and how it has changed up to the present date, for instance what services were available?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well in 1932, under Mr. Robinson as the Commissioner, as I said, Mr. Lounsberry our Mayor, we had all categories which is known as Old Age, Aid to the Blind, Aid to the Disabled and Aid to Dependent Children and of course now you know man—a great deal of that has been transferred and is now in the Social Security system and of course the City of Binghamton was by itself at that time—the Town of Union was alone and Broome County was alone and we had three distinct offices—three distinct commissioners all serving the areas of the County as they did divide employees and then under the direction of Mr. ah Libous, our Mayor, and Mr. Crawford, it was found more at interest of the taxpayers and the serving of the County that we should merge and come under one head and that has been for approximately the past 6 years was one Commissioner and I think they are doing that a lot in Government now, trying to get one head so’s you don’t have it divided because it’s much more economical.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: So in other words the funding is under the Broome County.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: It’s now called the Department—the Broome County Department of Social Services rather prior to that it was City of Binghamton, Town of Union and a small section—it was just the town was under Broome County.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now are you under Federal Regulations?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Oh yes ah Medicaid is a Federally sponsored program and ah we are reimbursed ah 80% and then 20% from the County and State and some titles are 60-40, 40 you know 60-40 which amounts 20 County 20 State. You know that, you're probably working for the Action for Older Persons—you know there’s quite a bit in the ah funding.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now have you noticed any change in the attitudes of recipients in the benefits?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I seldom see the applicant now because what has happened is I have been promoted and I'm in administration so I work, I work more with the Social workers than the Examiners but ah the right to receive Public assistance ah the mind of some people is changing all that and I think that came about from the 1937 Social Security Act and the Social Security has moved forward and we've gotten SSI and the people have been included but interesting though ah people still wish to have their right to maintain their own lives and the integrity of being an American citizen or citizen of the United States first—you can decide for yourself and I think respect is still commanded and I wish we were doing more for the older people ah there just doesn't seem to be time and that’s why at Social Services we're so grateful for organizations as Action for Older People and Services for the Aging because we may have the fund but sometimes we don’t have enough people to give the services.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see ah now could you—I don' t know whether this is outside of your realm or not but do you know how the relocation of the people of Susquehanna Street was accomplished due to Urban Renewal?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Disaster—absolute disaster.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Absolute disaster—in what respect?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: In the fact that they didn't care about people and l they made promises, promises, promises which you know have never been kept.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Well where have they gone?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well fortunately some families were able to buy small modest homes but the promise that they were going to rebuild that area which held many people has never materialized, you know, Woodburn Court, what is it going to have? A few houses now for Senior Citizens and they're not going to take that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Going to have a big parking lot.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I guess they need that. I feel—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: —someplace to put the snow.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I just feel that that’s devastating and urban renewal has done that throughout this country to minority persons and poor people and I they have warehoused them and ah we haven't been responsive as citizens to people who—the house might not have met the standards for somebody who was doing urban planning but it had roots and growth and love and care and the curtains may have needed to have been mended but it was starched. It was beautiful and you could sit around and have your coffee or your tea or your cakes and where we sat people—I think we are moving over to the mausoleums—don't start me on that—I feel terrible about it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK, I won't pursue that any further ah now I think you will agree with me Barbara, that ah we're living in a promiscuous society today with ah young couples living together without regard for marriage.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I think that’s the at—you know my feelings are.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dam: No.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I—“promiscuous” is your adjective.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Not one I would use because that says that I'm placing a value judgment on someone else’s decision.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And one of the things that has been a tenet in my life—that I may have a standard set for Barbara Oldwine and I may wish to keep that high—then it becomes a standard that Cornelius and I set together—a family standard and I wish to transfer that and the beauty of that in the growth of my Church and the love of my community to my daughters but I have never felt that I could place a value judgment on someone else's decision so I, I totally using that adjective.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You don't like that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No I can't use—well it's all right for you, I, I would defend with my life your right to use it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh—well the only, the only reason I asked is that in such an arrangement of two people living together and one—say the girl becomes pregnant and the boy figures that “I've had enough,” and he moves out—has this had a bearing on the welfare rolls?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I think a lot of people want to think that but I don’t think that’s ah been ah documented and we just want to look at that like that and are not really willing to look at why we have increased the people that have support and assistance in our society and the reason we have increased is that we are in such a high society of technology that people would, could come to America and not speak English but could become a farmer or do the hardest labor on the railroad or become construction people and not need all this refinement—they could go ahead and build from the bootstrap. All that has disappeared and it’s I think it’s the technology of this country that it constantly, you goad the simple jobs that people could get that didn’t have a lot of training and this is why we are in a great bit of difficulty of people not being able to find work and the other thing I think that I’m not sure that people still care about people, that we are really serving, want to help. We're a society that’s always proved ourselves, that always have to have someone as an underdog on the bottom—stepping on them. We proved that when we went to Vietnam, we proved that when we had the Civil War, so I really don’t want to talk about a person's decision to share their life with another person and create a life, which is an act of God, and then decide that they can’t face that responsibility means that the welfare rolls have increased, because I don't know that, because there are women who have been left alone where this decision has been made, have gone on and done great things and provided for that young life that they created and that they decided to keep. So we don't have the statistics.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You don't have the statistics?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: No and we mustn't draw that out as that’s the reason. I feel the welfare rolls have increased because technology of this country has moved simple jobs out of the contact for people, you know we are not educating people to get the technological jobs—there are more people than there are jobs.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And every time you, say, put it on a printout—use it on a computer, maybe you eliminate an individual who maybe could have done a simple job.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And we're starting to warehouse people and that’s very frightening and I don't think we should base it on what the moral decision is. The fact that as human beings, we can't cast the first stone against someone else's decisions because if we had done that ah God would never have been close to Mary Magdalene.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: And He loved this woman and reminded us, be without sin ourselves before we cast the first stone. But when He went to the well for the water, the woman said to Him, “Why do you ask me to fill the pitcher to serve you?” because she was different in Gentile and Jew and He didn't care. He was going to drink from the pitcher that would be sweet because it had been blessed out.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umum—now what clubs have you belonged to Barbara?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: OK—I feel very privileged to say that I am a Life Member of American Association of University Women and I have served as a Secretary for that organization and then I'm proud to say I’m a member of Semper Fidelis, which was founded by Mrs. Beccye Fawcett—this is part of the National Negro Conference of Women who are original founders with Mary McCloud McLew—a beautiful woman who established Bethune-Cookman College on nothing—what an inspiration—and then ah I'm a member and ah immediate Past President of Broome County Urban League Guild, a member of the Monday Afternoon Club—that was an exciting thing. The Monday Afternoon Club was 100 years old. These beautiful women decided that all women should have a right to belong to that organization and ah you know at Monday Club, you have to be sponsored by a woman and then two women cosponsored you and Mrs. Fawcett and I were both selected and I have loved my association with these women—there is so much beauty there and of course you know our home has been listed as ah one of the outstanding architectural homes in this country—in the State—it was owned by Mr. Phelps first and there is a lot of loving, caring there for women and we do a lot of great things there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: It was owned by Mr. Phelps?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is it the banker?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I'm not quite sure.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: E.Z. Phelps?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I think so—that’s in the history, all right and then ah lets see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You belong to—do you still belong to Episcopal—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church—oh I was baptized there and now it’s really wonderful. Neil and I were married there. Our daughter Valerie was married there and we baptized her first baby there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah—how many children do you have?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I have just Eileen, my oldest daughter, who is associated with the ah State Department in Washington as a Foreign Service officer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Wonderful.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Really exciting job and of course we have our daughter Valerie Oldwine Barnes who is married to John C. Barnes with their little daughter Amera and of course you know the new baby is coming any day.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yes (laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: We were rather delayed with this and John and Valerie are both associated with IBM as her father is.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Well that’s fine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: I must tell you about Valerie—she’s 29 and she’s a manager of Finance in the Lab and I’ll tell you a little about the girls’ education, if I may.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Surely.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Eileen went to Fisk University.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Your Alma Mater.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: My Alma Mater so that’s always very important for Mother and then she went on to go to the University of Michigan to do her Masters in Public Health Administration. Valerie chose to go to Howard University, then she went on to do her Masters at the Wharton School of Finance at University of Pennsylvania. I’d like to point out here that my daughter selected the predominantly Black University for the undergraduate program. Having been raised in Binghamton, they had not had a great deal of opportunity to associate with the peer group because our population here you know is very small—approximately now about 3000, which is a small number in the total community and both girls needed that kind of identity and we feel very fortunate that they were able to obtain that in ’59 then when they were ready to go further into their development professionally. They then sought the University that would offer the ah choice Degree for which they settled and ah we're really excited when we say Valerie finished Wharton because it is—she was one of the first 10 Black women to receive her India World honor.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see—OK she went on for further studies at Wharton.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Yes the MBA Wharton School of Finance, University of Pennsylvania and it has been a great deal to her career and ah it’s interesting to know all industry is accepting women and men and giving them promotions based on ability and that’s what this is all about.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: So ah in Beccye Fawcett’s mind, anyone who has the education and the opportunity, can go out and get a job—no matter what the color of his skin is today—right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I guess there you know—nothing can be overall and a lot of young Black people will feel that they may get in the door and that’s a very important step, getting in the door. Now we have to worry about where they're going once they're in the door—are they going to move up? We have to acknowledge that in bib business and in finance, we don't have too many Bank Presidents yet who are Black and we don't have too many high level managers ah who are Black and this is still the goal that young Black people are trying for—ah Patricia Harris, who is in the Cabinet with ah Mr. ah Carter—she’s an exception. Vernon Jordan directs the Urban League—outstanding man now—I can’t think of the young woman that was just appointed as the Executive Director for National Planned Parenthood—but she's 34, she’s from Dayton, Ohio and she’s going to earn $7,000 a year. She was a nurse first and then got her M.Ph in Ohio. Now our young Black people are having to really strive to get promotions and move into the top level of management. We’re faced with the Backey case for admission to the ah medical schools, which is being heard by the Supreme Court, because if they're talking about reverse discrimination, Civil Rights have to look at that. I believe in preparing but they're, they're still a fuzzy area. Ah I'm not satisfied that it’s a—besides it not all to a degree for anybody anymore—one is this technology that is requiring more and more training. Why don’t, why don’t white or black interests think of the number of teachers that are just not admitted to the school districts because we don’t have the money—we're cutting down, we're consolidating Junior children.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: We have declining enrollment at the moment.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right—well Barbara, is there anything else that you would like to add?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I would like to stress that I ah feel that education and preparedness should play a great part in the lives of people but there has to be a certain amount of human understanding and we have to transcend that and have people recognize people for the working people and it’s going to be very difficult in this society for what I call the dominant part of the society which is the white American male to understand that perhaps he is going to be threatened by the Black American and by women. He has always been the Chairman of the Board—that he is going to have to move over to make room.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: So you're an advocacy of women’s rights.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Oh definitely.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK, I’m not going to dispute that either. (laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Thank you Dan—well what do you think?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Fine—do you want me to turn it off and I’ll turn—play it back for you?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Oh to hear a little bit of it, I don't need to hear it all.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">[PAUSE ON TAPE]</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Can you tell me any special honors you have received as a citizen of the community, Barbara?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: Well I think the most beautiful honor I have received was at the time of the Bicentennial and I was selected by the commission to be Woman of the Year for the City of Binghamton and that meant a great deal to me because it was based on my contribution to the community as a loving, caring person and I think it was afforded to me because of my work with ah the United Way—I've been on the Board of Directors there and ah I've been on the Board of Directors for Planned Parenthood and at the present time, I'm a national Board member for the YWCA of America—have 91 women on that governing Board and reach that plateau because the women of your own community nominate you for the work you have done and my work with the “Y” here. I was the President of the Board of Directors so none of these things would have been possible for me if the people of the community hadn’t respected me and knew that we cared about each other.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Thank you Barbara.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Barbara: OK.</span></p>
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Dublin Core
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Interview with Barbara Oldwine
Subject
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Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association
Description
An account of the resource
Barbara Oldwine talks about her life in Binghamton, NY beginning with her childhood, her education at Fisk University, and her position with the Department of Social Services. She discusses her working experiences, the merger of welfare facilities, and her husband's experience at IBM. She discusses her views on racial discrimination in education and work fields, as well as the discrimination her family was subjected to. She discusses her community activity, such as the Urban League, American Association of University Women, Planned Parenthood and the YWCA.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/mp3
Language
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English
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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Recording 45A ; Recording 45B
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Oldwine, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan
Date
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1978-03-01
Date Modified
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2016-03-27
Is Part Of
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Broome County Oral History Project
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37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
Identifier
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
Coverage
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
English, Charles
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-04-28
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
34:08 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55901">Interview with Charles English</a>
Subject LCSH
English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Charles English</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 28 April 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Charlie, would you start out giving me your life and working experiences in the community, ah, starting with your date and place of birth?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, I was born, ah, July 18, 1930 in Binghamton and, ah, ah, my father was E.C. English. My mother's name was, ah, Edna L. Zimmerman, maiden name—she was from Johnson City. Ah, I was brought up in Windsor and lived here more or less all my life except for the time I was in the service of the United States during the Korean War and, ah, my two jaunts at college—ah, I attended, ah, Harpur College after graduation from Windsor High School—graduated from Harpur in 1952 with an A.B. in Foreign Languages—Spanish, ah, was the Major—and shortly thereafter, of course, was drafted into the Army and, ah, was led to believe that I was going to be a Spanish interpreter, and you know how that goes. (laughter). Ah, ended up being an Infantryman—sent to Korea with a bunch of, ah, Puerto Rico soldiers at the time—my only interpreting was, ah, trying to translate orders from the American officers of these Puerto Ricans. Well after, ah, in Korea, I ended up in, ah, the Signal Corps and worked in the troop information and education and ah, ah, raising the, ah, educational level of soldiers after, when the war ended and we came back to the United States. My dad and I had a conference about the drugstore, ah, and I decided that I would go back to Pharmacy School, so we went four years to Albany Pharmacy and, ah, had our B.S. Degree in 1959, so I'm now the third generation of the pharmacists here in the English family in Windsor, and I believe probably we're the oldest, ah, pharmacy, ah, being in one family in Broome County.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: When was it first established, Charlie?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: My grandfather took it over in April of 1900 and, ah, the same pharmacy had been operated prior to him by, ah, Dusenberry and Lyons for a few years, and prior to them, ah, by a man named T.V. Furman, who ah, also was a prominent local official, ah, politician, and ah, I don't know but what I remember, a Board, ah, member of the Board of Supervisors of Broome County, and I understand Mr. Furman, ah, went into business as a result of buying out Dr. A.B. Stillson.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Doc Stillson's father.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Um.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Doc. Stillson's.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: So, ah, it's been in the same locale—the drugstore’s been in the same location for about a hundred years and, ah, 78 of those years now in our family.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Ah, then ah, along with this, ah, we, we bought the building—joint owners—Marine Midland Bank and myself (laughter), and ah, we rent out two apartments upstairs and we rent out another section on the ground level to, ah, the Government, for it's been a Windsor Post Office in that location for as long as I can remember. Matter of fact, ah, I guess that was the location of the Post Office way back in the 1830s—before that building existed it was still in the same spot, so ah, we haven’t changed too much.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie:· Ah then, ah, ah, I, ’cause, ah, I live here, ah, in what you call the Hotchkiss House or Old Stone House—I guess it’s the only stone house in Broome County, ah, to my knowledge.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And this was built sometime between 1823 and 1825 by a man named Stiles Hotchkiss. His grandfather, David, is an original pioneer for the, ah—let a tract of land here in the village of Windsor, that he received, ah, from the Government, and he came here in about 1789 and settled on this tract. He divided some of the tract up among his, ah, six or more sons—I forget how many right off hand, and of course they in turn subdivided among their sons. David Hotchkiss was, ah, credited with, ah, being the person who designed the Village of Windsor—laid out the streets, ah, much as they are today. Main Street, Chapel Street, Grove are all part of his original plan and, ah, also he's a founder of the local Presbyterian church, incidentally, the same Presbyterian church that's here today. He, his family also you might credit with the, ah, one of the families who helped found the first, ah, public school here in Windsor also. Well this stone house, incidentally, was originally built for the purpose of being a distillery, and up in back here they have a series of three falls on what is now known as Hotchkiss Creek—originally the Hotchkiss family called it Falls Creek.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And they had a mill over, ah, near the Village, ah, constructed by, ah, M. Raphael Hotchkiss, Stiles's father, and about 1825 they moved that, ah, mill over here and built here on the creek and, ah, well, according to the 1885 Broome County Histories on the purest whiskey, ah, known to man, was manufactured here, and sometime or another after that, the family did move into the house and used it jointly as both the business and as a residence.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: The house is, ah, I guess what you call typical, ah, Federal period. There's two or three houses around town here that were built by, built by the Hotchkiss family. All of them, although this one is stone, there is another house down on the corner of Kent and Main, which is a wood clapboard house built on the same style, and they were copied after patterns in the Hotchkiss family up in Connecticut.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh, very interesting. Now, ah, Charlie, how did you get started in your special interest here—your Civil War memorabilia?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, ah, I guess probably that results from, ah, joining the American Legion, ah. L remember, ah, when I got home from Korea in '54, ah, I been traveling for off and on, I guess about 3 weeks before I finally was able to get from the west coast to east coast due to, ah, storms and poor airplanes, as a matter of fact. When I got home, why, I went to a local barber—had a haircut, and ah, right then and there he talked me into joining the Legion, and ah, the following Memorial Day—some of the World War I vets, who for years had gone around and put flags out on the veterans’ graves all on, asked some of us newer, ah, Legionnaires if we'd go along and assist. In a sense, that was a mistake, because that first year started me on a project I've been doing every year since 1954, but we’d go around to, ah, a lot of the cemeteries here in Windsor, of which I believe there are 17 and with the exception of about 4 or 5, all of them are so-called abandoned cemeteries the town takes care of. Ah, they, ah, tombstones of some of the old Civil War veterans were beginning to fade away and became hard to read, so I became interested in, ah, making a record, and I did visit each cemetery and start copying down these names. Ended up, though, before I got done, I compiled a list of all the war veterans in the town of Windsor from the American Revolution through Korea—I haven't tackled the Vietnam era yet—and, ah, ah, then I began to do a little research on the men because I couldn't help but notice that a goodly number of the men in the Civil War, for example, either belonged to the 137th New York Volunteers, the 89th New York Volunteers, the 29th Infantry, or the 16th Independent Battery, which made me, ah, come to the realization they must have joined as a unit. Then, ah, began the historical research, and ah, the interest continually, ah, snowballed of course. The Museum, I guess, started because I decided I needed a few artifacts that maybe some of the men carried, and as a result we've gone from, ah, a couple of muskets, which I originally purchased, to, ah, the 45 by 40 building we have now to have our museum.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh—how many muskets do you have now?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, I—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Just guessing, I mean, you don't have to be exact.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I don't know—probably, ah, oh, 50 or 60 or more.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah—so in other words, it's been within the last 24-year period that you have accumulated this?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Yes, and another thing, too, about it is that, ah, a lot of people—of course, ah, the collection here, ah, due to inflation and so on and so forth, has become quite valuable. Where you used to be able to pick up a Civil War musket maybe for $25, it's at least ten times that now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And ah, I can't stress the point, ah, any stronger than that. Ah, yes, it does have monetary value, but that's not my interest—my interest is its historical value.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I, ah, just like so many others I'm a temporary, ah, caretaker of these artifacts, and ah, after me, who knows who the next caretaker will be? But over there is a French and Indian War Brown Vest musket, for example, manufactured about 1765, and incidentally it has a Dublin Castle marking on it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Of interest to you people of Irish Descent (laughter), but I do know that musket was used in the French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, probably the War of 1812. It was converted from percussion, from flint to percussion, about 1840, judging from the age of the hammer, and ah, it's been here in Windsor for I don't know how many years and, ah, here it is, ah, well over 200 years old, and like I say, ah, it probably had six generations of temporary caretakers.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That's terrific, that's terrific. Would you, would you, ah, hazard a guess as far as your—the monetary value today of your full collection here?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, I really can't.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Have you counted it at all?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I probably could determine it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Just roughly.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, of course another thing—I don't usually divulge, ah, ah, the general public what I think it might be worth—for insurance purposes, let us say that, ah, it's insured for approximately $60,000.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right? It’s, it's wonderful. I was, I'm sure everybody that comes through here is very impressed with the extensive collection—I've never seen anything like it before.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, from—there, again from the historical standpoint, ah, we do receive visitors from ah, ah, many areas that come through here that have heard about it, ah, fact, ah, here's a communication from, ah, a gentleman that is affiliated with the House of Commons of Canada, in Canada, who happens to be, like myself, a Civil War nut—he was an over-the-weekend guest with us here a couple of weeks ago, and it's surprising, here's a gentleman from Canada who, ah, knows all about Windsor, NY. He's related to the McClure's, who of course took part in the Clinton-Sullivan expedition, and ah, ah, early settlers over here just, ah, three miles up the road.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Revolutionary War veteran. We have people from, ah, Virginia visit us frequently—ah, this house, in the year 1828 a man by name of Jed Hotchkiss was born, of which we have a picture or two here on the wall. Jed Hotchkiss, ah, went to his, ah, went to school here in Windsor and graduated from Virginia Academy—the one which his folks helped, ah, found, and after graduation he, ah, became a school teacher. He didn't need a college education in those day's—a High School certificate. To make a long story short, he ended up being, ah, in, a Founder of a boys’ academy at Mossy Creek, Virginia, along with a gentleman who had been one of his professors here at school, and he also, ah, ah, started another boys’ academy down there, down there near Churchville, ah, which he called Lock Willow, of which there are some pictures in the Library of Congress and the University of Virginia. Civil War broke out and his boys all enlisted in the Confederate Army and, ah, Jed Hotchkiss himself was approached by, ah, the Southern forces, ah, ah, to join them. His hobby had been for years mapmaking—his whole family around Windsor here had been surveyors and mapmakers, and some of the original roads and so on are laid out by members of his family. He did join the Confederate Army, and ah, shortly thereafter he, ah, joined them, as a civilian incidentally, ah, he was assigned and worked with Stonewall Jackson, and most of his life in service, ah, with the Confederate Officers who, ah, defended the Shenandoah Valley and, ah, he became a close personal friend of General Robert E. Lee, General Jubal Early, so on and so forth, and ah, I guess you might also say he became the unofficial, ah, Historian of Virginia, ah, ah, part in the Civil War. After the War he wrote the volume for the Confederate history on the State of Virginia and also collaborated with several other Confederate Officers who wrote histories on that, but the fact is he was born here in this house like I say in 1828, and some of his avid fans from Virginia have to make a trip up here now and then, you know, to check out his birthplace.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh. Now according to the, ah, information here about the architectural aspects of your home, it was also listed as an Underground Railroad, at one time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: That's true, that's true.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Do you have any particulars on that at all?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: They have been unable to determine who owned the house at the time the Underground Railway was here, ah, I don't know if the Hotchkiss family still owned it or not. There is no question that there was a tunnel in our cellar—the rear of the, ah, house is a, ah, laid stone entryway with a hewn beam for a header over it, and ah, that was the entryway to the tunnel. My wife's father, who used to be a miner, is the last one that was, that I know of, that was in that tunnel. It was unsafe, so they strung wire across the entryway and then boarded it up. The tunnel left, ah, the rear of the house and came out someplace up here, ah, on the creek and, ah, every year or so we find indentations in our back lawn where something caved in and we have to fill it in, but as far as the particulars itself, all I've been able to gather is hearsay from some of the older residents around town.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now was this—your museum—this building here, built the same time the house was?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: No, I built the museum here in 1970, and I faced it with stone in order to match the house.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That was a good idea, that was a good idea, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: This collection used to be in our cellar and we sort of outgrew the cellar.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm, yeah. Of course this represents, ah, all purchases, or do you get some donations?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Oh no, no—purchases. A lot of the items are purchased, a lot of them are donated and a few of them are on loan.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And of course we carry insurance on everything regardless of whether it's ours or what, and ah, some of—it's surprising, when I first opened the museum, there was very little in here, but on the other hand, with some of the donations, when people saw it was going to be a serious venture, then they—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Then they wanted a part of it—be a part of it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: They, they contributed.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And ah, ah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: What are the hours that you're open, Charlie?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well usually, ah, since I have to be at the drugstore a good share of the time, ah, it's open mainly on weekends.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Weekends.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And, ah, I advise a lot of the people who are interested in seeing it, ah, if they will contact me at the store, make an appointment, I will be glad to open it for them evenings or whenever it is convenient for both of us, but other than that I say, primarily during good weather—the weekends.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah. Ah, getting back to your pharmacy, ah, did you notice a, quite a change, as far as the dispensing of prescriptions from the date of your dad and your grandfather up to the present date? In other words, there wasn't the repackaged generic and, ah, packaging there is today, but you really had to mix your own drugs.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: That's true, and ah, when I was a youngster, I used to help my dad and grandfather—we used to make up, ah, ah, liniment for the athletic squad at the school, you know, and it was done by hand and, ah, ah, there were very few things that were not compounded. I remember when things like achromycin and terramycin came out and what a marvelous thing it was to add a little water to a bottle, shake it up, but ah, ah, ‘course today, we have, ah, medicine you couldn't buy for any kind of money—some of it as long as ten years ago, and as granted, there isn't much compounding, but on the other hand I don't think my dad or my grandfather, either one, would be very happy with, ah, today's, ah, method of operating a pharmacy. Ah, a lot of that I blame on the government, but it's, ah, ah, there's as much paperwork or more than is the actual work that, ah, you do along the line of pharmacy, and ah, there’s a great deal of regulations that never existed even ten years ago that, ah, it may be good, I don't know, but ah, I personally feel there's too much government interference, not only in my business but everybody else—so some politician can perpetuate his job, you know. (Laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right—ah, going up the road a little ways, ah, the road to Ouaquaga, are you acquainted very much with the Shaker Barn?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Yes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: The Shaker Sect—how long ago were they, ah, active?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Ah, I would guess, ah, probably the latter part of, ah, the last century was their high point here in Windsor. Matter of fact this stone house, I find in some of the records, was ah, the mortgage was held by the Shakers when they were here. There's a man, I believe his name is Levi Shaw, who was a Shaker who operated a sawmill right down here, ah, near the river bridge, and ah, they all tied in together.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Ah, the ah, Shaker Museum, incidentally, in ah, Chatham, New York, now, ah, Gary Hinman, ah, is, ah, working up there, and he's tied in a few strings that were loose here, regarding the Shaker history.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah—it's very interesting. Do you happen to know what the significance is of having an entrance and an exit to the Shaker Barn?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Matter of fact, I don't. Do you? (Laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: No I don't. I saw it mentioned, you know, or ah, read about it mentioned someplace, and I just wondered what the significance was. It was probably part of their religious background, you know?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: No I don't.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Do you have any children, Charlie?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Oh yes, we have, ah, a boy who is eighteen, then we have a girl that is eleven and a boy that is, ah, ten.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And of course the, ah, our oldest son's out on his own, so to speak, now—he went to BOCES and learned plumbing and heating, and ah, he’s doing quite well with that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That’s, that’s a good trade.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Then, ah, my younger ones here—they're my helpers, you know, here at the museum—yeah, when we need the glass cleaned.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Do you hope to get a pharmacist out of one of them?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I don't know—to tell you truthly, I'd like to discourage it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You'd like to discourage it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Uh huh. I can't, ah, I don't care if it's pharmacy or whether it's buying a new car or what—consumerism is a big thing today, and ah, I think it's nice that, ah, people are able to buy things as economically as possible, but on the other hand I think the—not only the American workman but the, I suppose the workmanship from our friends across the seas, is terrible.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: You, yourself, probably back in 1936—if you bought a new car, it lasted you ten years or twelve years, right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: They're only built to last a couple of years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: They're built to sell, period, and the same way in, ah, the ah, pharmacy business, ah, everything is aimed at consumerism, not quality.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right, right—yeah, I know my, my car is rusting out and it's only a ‘73.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Oh that’s, I, ah, I don't think I would encourage my son to be a retail pharmacist—maybe if he wanted to be a pharmacist in another field.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: There's too much competition, too much junk for sale.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right, right, it's no longer a drug store—perfect example is Eynon—call themselves Eynon Drugs and sell everything.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Yeah, true.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Well, is there anything else of interest that you think you would like to add on to this, ah, interview, Charlie, before I terminate it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, I can't think of any.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: What clubs do you belong to?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Oh gee, let's see. I'm trying to get out of things instead of get in them, ah, always like that. I've been a member of the American Legion, member of Chamber of Commerce here, ah, I ah, worked with the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, in fact, I'm on the, presently on a Boy Scout committee here. I guess at one time or another I belonged to almost every organization we've had in town. Church groups, ah, and Civic and, ah, now they do have the museum. I try to, ah, spend a little more time here and a little less time out, ah, in some of the organizations, ah, and ah, along of course, Fire Company, and ah I'm still a part-time policeman here, we have a—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh, are you helping out John Gray?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Yeah, I do that, and ah, ah, ‘course I've been Town Clerk, too, for—I've been in the Town Clerk's office, so to speak, as a Deputy or Town Clerk for 25 years now. That takes a little time also.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yes, yes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: So I limit my outside activities. I really enjoy the museum and, ah, especially the Civil War part and the part that Broome County men played, and ah, I can completely lose all my problems or cares I might then, I have had during the day by getting involved in this business of Broome County History.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: It’s wonderful, that's great, yeah. Well, I certainly appreciate your taking the time off, Charlie, to permit me to come up and interview you.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: By the way, I was just going to mention it—we were talking a little while ago about, ah, the immigrants idea and so on, so forth, established here, and this is a tidbit of Civil War history you might not know. You know where the IBM homestead is now?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Well, that belonged to my great-grandfather Eli Crocker.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: OK, that was his farm. Now the fellow he sold it to is the one that, ah, apparently bought the—sold the land to IBM for their Country Club, because Eli never got a thing out of it—my grandmother was born down that way.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: And, ah, if you recall, a couple of years ago Tom Cawley had an article in his column in the </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Binghamton Press</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;"> here, the tree that was cut for the keel of the Monitor—that, ah, in the Battle of the Monitor and the Merrimac, came from this area. Well it was Eli's farm that shipped that lumber up the canal down the Hudson River to Brooklyn Navy Yard, you know, when the keel of the Monitor, but ah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Very interesting.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I just thought that was a little, little sidelight from there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah that's great, great—those little sidelights you don't find in history books.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Eli, incidentally, you know he joined the 8th Regiment in Broome County, and he had a manservant, negro—you know, wasn't a slave, manservant. OK—they called him Old Bay Tom, and, ah, funny part of it was, Old Bay Tom enlisted too, and I have a picture of him over here in his Civil War uniform, Negro. I don't know what Regiment he belonged to, I've never been able to find out—that was never in the Family Bible or anything, right—I imagine probably the 54th Massachusetts—that was one of the first Negro Regiments, but ah, one ironic thing about Old Bay Tom was, after he came back to the Binghamton area, he ran for Mayor of Binghamton.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: He knew that he didn't have a chance of winning, you know, but ah, just the idea of, probably, it was the first case of a, of a negro, ah, taking a step forward, asserting himself, trying to get in something that was, ah, a white man's haven, you know, and he drew a lot of votes, believe it or not.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You don't recall what year that was, do you?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: I did know, but I can't recall right now. Fact, I think there is a painting of this gentleman either down at the Courthouse or down at Roberson Memorial now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: But very few people knew that he was a candidate for Mayor of Binghamton, I guess in the 1870s.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: 1870s—that’s great.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: But, ah, we got a couple other—that picture up in the corner, incidentally, Colonel Walton Dwight—remember, heard of him?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: No, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Remember when, ah, a couple of weeks ago, they had an article about those, ah, buildings on upper Front Street? They’re falling down—they weren't fit for even the welfare families.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Oh yeah—Dwight Block, you mean.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Dwight Block.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Ah, this Walton Dwight was the Mayor of Binghamton, and that was his home up in there, see. That, oh gee, that was a fabulous place. Well, Walton Dwight originally came from Windsor, West Windsor, and he wanted to become an Officer in the Union Army, and ah, of course they appointed a lot of their Officers, right. So he applied to New York State, but they wouldn't give him a Regiment so he went down here below Great Bend, in Pennsylvania, and they—he went into the lumber business. Well, it ended up that he and a whole bunch of lumberjacks signed up to get in and they got a Commission off of Governor Curtin in Pennsylvania, and they went in as the 2nd Pennsylvania Bucktails. Mr. Dwight, ah, became, ah, almost an instant hero ‘cause shortly after he, ah, became an Officer, he got involved in the Battle of Gettysburg and he got shot in the arm on the first day of the Battle—so naturally he goes to the hospital and all this, and he comes back, wounded hero in the Battle of Gettysburg, big thing, he comes back to the Binghamton area and they have the parades and everything and parade him around, what a wonderful fellow he is, you know, and sooner or later, ah, he got talked into running for Mayor and he became the Mayor of Binghamton. According, there again, to some history books, ah, while he was Mayor of Binghamton he ran into a number of financial difficulties—some of it was public money and, ah, but the big thing he did when he was Mayor of Binghamton—it seemed the Great Chicago Fire occurred during his term. He's very famous for the amount of money he was able to raise in Binghamton to send to the fire victims out in Chicago.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That’s very interesting, and now the Dwight Block, they're thinking about tearing that down—moving all the tenants out of it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie: That's right, and that was his, that was a very prominent place in Binghamton history at one time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Well, Charlie, can I play this back for you?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Charlie : Sure.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: OK.</span></p>
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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Interview with Charles English
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English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk
Description
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Charles English discusses his upbringing in Windsor, NY, graduating from Harpur College, and serving in the Korean War. He worked as a third-generation family pharmacist and served as the Windsor Town Clerk. He discusses the Hotchkiss home and this family's involvement in the founding of Windsor and their contributions during the Civil War. He expresses his deep knowledge of the Civil War, detailing the museum he operates and its Civil War artifacts. He discusses his grandfather, Eli Crocker, who, along with his manservant, enlisted in the Civil War. After his discharge, Crocker's manservant, ran unsuccessfully, for Mayor of the City of Binghamton, NY. He also mentions that his house was used as an underground railroad stop.
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/mp3
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English
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Recording 19
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English, Charles ; O'Neil, Dan
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1978-04-28
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2016-03-27
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Broome County Oral History Project
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34:08 Minutes
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Broome County Oral History Project
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Broome County -- History
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Binghamton University Libraries
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
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Celeste, Daniel
Interviewer
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O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-04-11
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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33:12 Minutes
Streaming Audio
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55880">Interview with Daniel Celeste</a>
Subject LCSH
Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Daniel Celeste</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 11 April 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan O’Neil: OK, Danny, if you will tell me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting from where you were born.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Daniel Celeste: Where I born, I born in Faeto, it’s in the town of Faeto, Province of Foggio–that’s the province of the, like the state, like you say, the—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: In Italy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, in Italy, and then we—Dad came here because he was here before, and ah, he brought me and my brother with him. We emigrate then from Faeto to Naples, and from Naples we come right into United States.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What year was that, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 19—1908.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: 1908.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 1908, and we came to Binghamton. We had some relatives here—some cousins and relations, so Dad went, ah, laboring around whatever, he got a job and I went to school for a couple of months that, that year, and then I went, we went on, ah, on, ah, construction work, and took me along with him and I was waterboy there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And ah, in Fabius—Fabius, NY, that’s where we—first job, ah, I really worked, and ah, we lived in a shanty, was in the camp, you know what I mean, about a couple hundred people that were in there—Christ, camping outside—and Dad didn’t want to stay in the shanty. We built a little setup there under the tree and, ah, we slept outside. (Laughter.) Well, then as I’d grow older I would come back, and, and he used to take me down to Pennsylvania and he used to work in the mine in the wintertime, had some cousins there, and ah, I used to go to school—I’d go to school for a couple of months of the winter, and ah, in the spring we’d come do the same thing, go construction work, and I was waterboy. Finally I got a job as in a transfer, trucking, freight, things like that. I stayed home with—we lived on Henry Street, we came on Henry Street and, ah, I then went to work in the freighthouse, and trucking, that’s about, oh, about two years I work in the freighthouse.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What freighthouse, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: The Lackawanna.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: The Lackawanna.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, Lackawanna Transfer, they used to call it. Transfer, Lackawanna Transfer, and ah, from there I went to the, I went to Dunn McCarthy. I got a job in Dunn McCarthy and worked there for a little while, 1914, 1915. I went away for a little time—I went to Chicago—I spent six months there, stayed with a friend of mine. I couldn’t get a job then, then hard times, them days. Came back home, I got a job in a shoe factory afterwards, ah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: E.J. [Endicott Johnson]?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No, not E.J.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Dunn McCarthy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Dunn McCarthy. I worked there for about a year, then I went to E.J.’s, got a job in E.J.’s. Then 19—late 1915, I joined the Battery C, National Guard.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: The following year we got called in the service and went to the Mexican border in 19—1916, and ah, after we come back from the border, we were home for about three or four months, then the War was declared.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: This was the First World War.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: First World War. Then we went on active service in ’17, May ’17. ‘18 we come home, we got home in March, March 12 from overseas duty.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: After I come home from service, I started the restaurant in, ah, I think it was in June—I opened up that restaurant Henry Street and I spent the rest of my life in the restaurant business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Now this, what year was it you started up in, ah—?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 1919.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: 1919, OK.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 1919. Then of course we didn’t have no license them days, you know—just the restaurant, but we did bootlegging at first—(laughter)—sold a little wine, a little whiskey.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Did you make your own wine, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah—oh God, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Was it the “Dago red” wine?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: “Dago red,” what they called “Dago red.” One year I made 100, 107 barrels of wine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Is that right? Where did you get the grapes for all that?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: California.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: California.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: A fella used to, John Morelli, used to bring it in from California, and he was a cousin of mine so I made all this wine, and a short time later, got it made—I put a little here, a little there. They raid me—they took about thirty barrels away from me but I got a lot more left.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: So I followed up that business and stayed right in the business—when the License came back, why, ah, I got the restaurant and liquor license and beer license and got in the right business and was there until 1919-1960 when the State bought Henry Street out, you know, to put that overhead.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, right, Brandywine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Bought part of Henry Street and they had to take me down.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Right, right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Goddamn thing, my, my poor wife got sick over it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Then she, ah, we were doing good business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, you did a fine business down there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Did a good business down there, and I had the whole family—my daughter was married and living upstairs and we live on the second floor—had all the accommodations we want and we lived fine and, ah, no complaint. Came here on Court Street—we bought the place and remodeled.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What was it called then, Danny? The place on Court Street?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: What was it called?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, was there a restaurant there before?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: It was a grocery store.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, a grocery store.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: It was Buck’s Grocery.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, Buck’s—-yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And then, ah, so we torn down everything inside and built it up new and everything. I put in over $100,000 in the goddamn place.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Why, I wanted to buy my son-in-law a liquor store, but he liked the restaurant business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: That’s bad today, like the restaurant business. That’s all right—the hell, one thing is as good as the other.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: He liked the work and poor Bill had to get sick.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Of course when Bill give up and I stayed a little while myself—I couldn’t take care of it, know what I mean, then.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Got in trouble with my eyes and started putting me down a little bit. After my wife died in ’68, I hang around the place a little bit with other boys, you know that I—-it wasn’t just right, I didn’t feel just right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: So when I sold the place—the first time I sold it—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What year was that?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: ’60—1960, sold the restaurant on Court Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: ’60—1960.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: OK.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah, 1960, and then I stood around town—didn’t do too much. I used to hang around the restaurant, help Jim—-I can’t think of his last name now. Was Jim—oh God almighty, Jim, Jim—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: No matter.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Just ah, well, he spent, Jim spent about three years in there then and left his son in there, and his son run the business himself and then, ah, somebody else took it over then there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Was that LaMonica?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Jim—no, not LaMonica. He’s from Endicott. Jim, ah, Capullo, Jim Capullo.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And he’s in there for about three or four years, and boy did and then they run the place down—then they sold it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah, get started again, and that’s the end of it for me. That’s when these other guys come in, laid around and operated a Greek restaurant.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: The Retsina now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Now when did you—now from the time that you were—your place was torn down on Henry Street, didn’t you go to the Community Lounge?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What year, what year did you go there?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh, I had still run on Henry Street at the time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, you still had the place on Henry Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, yeah, I went in there with Bill Viglione. Remember Bill?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What year was that, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: ’47.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: ’47.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I just spent a couple of years there—I didn’t stay there. I went back to Henry Street there, came back to Henry Street and stayed there until after we sold—changed over then, you know.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: ’47 or ’48, ’49, I forgot who, then somebody else went in there—well, they operated, anyway.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Now, who was the prior owner of the Community—he had an Irish name—what was his name? You took it over from him—he died, do you remember his name?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Just can’t think of his name now. His brother used to run the place on Water Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Remember those places—one on Chenango Street, used to run—took Yannuzzi’s place?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh God, I forget.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Quite a nice fellow.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, we took it from this fella—I can’t think of his name now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Why did you, why did you leave the Community, ah, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I, ah, I didn’t like too much confusement with, with other confusement.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah. When you were working there, did Liberace, was he—did he come?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh yes, yes, Liberace played there. Sure, sure, the Community.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: In what year was that, did you recall?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Well, I say Liberace played there in ’47, ’48.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: ’48—about a year or so after you took over.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Any other, ah, ah, big names play there in the Community that you can recall?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I can’t just, ah, geez—you remember more than I do. (Laughter.) No, I don’t, to tell you the truth—we always had a band there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah, of course, Liberace was quite an entertainer there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah—do you remember what he was paid a week at that time?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh, couldn’t have, about $100, not more than $150 a week.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: He’s a multimillionaire today.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Right, yes—well, we passed it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Now, what were some of the main restaurants in town, Danny, during your era? What would you say were the main restaurants in town? We had quite a few of them.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Garvey’s.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: That was up on the north side.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No, Garvey’s was on Chenango Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: On Chenango Street, but on the north side, though, wasn’t it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, towards the—no, not on the north side—right on the, near the bank.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, was he?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, Garvey’s and Hodge.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Steve Hodge.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Steve Hodge—on State Street was a nice restaurant.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Pitch’s.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Pitch’s.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Pitch’s Oyster House.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Well, Pitch’s was on State Street, I think.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Pitch’s on State Street, yeah, I think they got State Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: And then they had a restaurant in the Bennett Hotel.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh yeah, the Bennett Hotel, they had a restaurant.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah—San Souci Grill. (Laughter.)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: You tell me, you remember all those things—I should remember, but anymore.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: How old are you, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I’ll be 80 in July.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: 80 in July, OK, and how old were you when you emigrated from Italy?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I was 10 years old.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: 10 years old, uh huh, so your education is—what would you say was the highest grade that you went to?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: In the third grade in Italy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Third grade in Italy, and over here you went to school.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I went to school about four or five months over the time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: All the time?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And I went to night school later in the years, you know. I took up a little night school.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: That’s nights I went to school.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh—now, when you started on Henry Street, ah, did you buy a building to start your restaurant?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: We lease it first, but I put the business, we bought the building, in 1919 we bought the building.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: But you leased it at first.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, we leased it first—we rented from, hooo, geez—a good Irish name, too, Irish family, very nice, ah, the boy’s still walking around—Danny—I can’t think of his last name now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: But you leased it when you came back out of service after World War I?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: After World War I, so about 1918.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 1919.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: And started in business for yourself? And you leased the building, is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh, we used to live there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, you used to live there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: We moved in there in 1911.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, but was it a brick building then or did you remodel it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: We remodeled the front.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I put the—I remodeled the front.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: It was around 1930, ’31 that I remodeled the front.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Just before, before the beer came back.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, but from the time you opened up until the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment, why, you made your own wine, is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, oh yeah, made—Christ, made all kinds of wine. (Laughter.)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Probably made more money on the wine than you did on the spaghetti, huh?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh God, yes—-well was 25¢ a bottle.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: 25¢ a bottle, $1.00 a gallon.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh. Well, they raided you when—raided you one year and took thirty barrels?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: They raided me the year they took thirty barrels away from me.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Left you better than seventy barrels left, huh?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: That Slocum son of a bitch—they still call him a son of a bitch.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Slocum?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What was he, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: He was, ah, squad, ah, him and, ah, a Polish fella they got—he’s still, ah, retired now. I see him once in a while.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah—it don’t matter.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, ah, Barvinchak.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Barvinchack.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, they come in and said they just wanted to see the place, you know, just, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah, they had a party upstairs—well, this was upstairs, well, you know, before had some upstairs and downstairs—ah, they come upstairs, they wanted to see what was in there, and Christ, I had a supply of beer for the night, you know, stuff, wine and things like that—said, “We’ll have to take it, you can’t drink.” They took it all with them, broke it later—I don’t know if they broke it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Did you make beer too?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Christ, beer. Boy, my wife used to make beer and she made a damn good beer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: One lady came up to me—show her how to make beer. My God, and she improved every time she made beer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: She made a damn good brew. Very, a lot of people used to come up for that brew.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, ah, up to 1929-30, we had our own beer, our own wine, you know how it is.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: But we got the [inaudible] back of beer, when the regular beer came back, then I took everything out—give it away, most of the stuff was left. Whatever was left I give my, “Why here, here’s a case of beer.” I didn’t want to be implicated in, ah, you know, mean, find fault for coming back and say, “He’s still bootlegging,” and things like that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: So I started to live a very clean life from that time on—nice business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: I know you had a real good business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Had a nice business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Had a good chef—couple of chefs, used to put on a good feed.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And I helped in the kitchen lots of the time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Used to get in the kitchen, and then after my daughter got married and my son-in-law took over, I just hanged around the place—I didn’t have much to do.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: That’s how I happened to go in the Community that time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: But I was glad to get back home again.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I had a place on Henry Street right next to the morning </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Sun</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;">—you know there used to be a morning </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Sun</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;"> and used to be on the corner of State. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And just that building next door, there, and ah, on the second floor we had the, we had a restaurant there, had a—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What year was this?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: In 1928 or ’29.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: So you had two of them going at the same time, and ah, how long were you in that business, or how long had you retained that?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh, was in there—this friend of mine, John, he was quite a card player—he liked to gamble and he used to go out. Well, we broke up—we didn’t. You know, lot’s of times you came in and bought a drink and I took the money, I ring the money, “No sale.”</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And, and put the money in there, ’cause I didn’t want those people to think marked “Liquor” on the register, and John said, ah, “Why don’t you ring the—?” I say, “John,” I say, “lots of time the inspectors come in—the food inspectors, and they like to check.” I didn’t want to show what we sell because we wasn’t supposed to have any beer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: But anyway, we broke up—we couldn’t get along no more—I couldn’t trust him no more, he didn’t trust me, and I, I had to quit.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: When a person don’t trust me, I don’t like to be involved, to think that I was gypping him and other things.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Finally applied for—used to work up up at the tax office in the city—it’ll come to me sometime when I don’t want to—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Hennessy.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Not Hennessy, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Sheehan.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: What awards have you had in—had any awards at all, Danny? Militarily or in the restaurant business or anything like that?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Any clubs you belong to?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Oh, I belong to the Eagles, belong to the Elks for quite, ah—joined, belonged to the Eagles, the Moose them days—I used to join them and get acquainted with the people.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Used to go down to the Veterans’ Clubs, you know, VFW and Legion.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh—were you pretty active in the Legion affairs?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I was very active, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh, did you hold any offices in the Legion?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No no, was a Sergeant in the Drum Corps and that’s all when it first started, and then, ah, I done a lot of work that I should have done that I used to go to the Legion a lot.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Help the Legion out that way.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Is there anything else of interest, Danny, you would like to tell me? Can you think of anything else?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: God, I think I’ve told you everything you wanted to know.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: You can ask me, I mean, if I can—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah. Yeah, ah, when you went into service, of course you had already been in the service—you joined up so you weren’t, you didn’t have to go through any Draft Board or anything in World War I?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: No—was in Battery C.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah—in Battery C.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I joined them in 1915, just before 1916. Then the War broke out and they organized it—they called the guards out—they shipped us down to the Mexican border there in (McClellan trucks) and we were down there for five or six months and, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Now the Retsina building—you still own it, don’t you now, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, I still own it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: So you just lease it to the—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Lease it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: And it’s a Greek restaurant, I guess, now.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And I got that parking lot over on the corner of Pine and Carroll Street.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Oh, do you lease that out to Dietzsch, Dietzsch Pontiac and Cadillac?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: That’s good, that’s good.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, I want to sell it. I got a little mortgage still going on, but I want to sell the restaurant—get rid of it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah—Giant made you any offer or anything else, or are they interested at all?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Well, I don’t think those boys there got any money. I don’t know who’s backing them up, but, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Well, they’ve got a lot of money. (Laughter.)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Think so. I hope so, I hope so.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: ’Course, there’s quite a bit of property between you—well, not an awful lot—not an awful lot.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: I think someday that, that corner will be torn down for a little hotel. You know, that’s a fine sport for a little hotel right in center part of the city.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And I wish somebody would start it and promote, I mean, I’m not in the real estate business, but I mean, I can see a hotel on that corner better than I can see where the hell, down out of the way where transient is, not, you know, I mean, like on Water Street, where the ah—what’s the hotel there on—the big hotel they got?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: You mean the Treadway?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Yeah, the Treadway.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: That’s out the way and you can’t even see it. Here’s one in the center of the city where traffic, transient business all, all the way around.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: And I think that it’d make a swell spot for a hotel.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: OK, and what church do you belong to, Danny? Still belong to—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: St. Mary’s Church.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: St. Mary’s—still go there. Yeah, OK, well if there isn’t anything else that you can think of, Danny, why—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Just ask me.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Well, we’ll terminate it on this note.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: Anything, anything that you like to.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: Well, I think we’ve covered everything that I, we want to—I mean, I can think to ask you. you’ve been in the restaurant business all your life and been very successful at it. You retired in what year?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: ’60, ’69—1970.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">O’Neil: 1970, OK, well would you like me to play it back for you, Danny?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Celeste: (Laughter.)</span></p>
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Interview with Daniel Celeste
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Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building
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Dan Celeste talks about his emigration from Italy at age ten, his various jobs before joining the National Guard, and opening a restaurant in post-WWI Binghamton. He discusses raids and difficulty with business during the depression and prohibition age, then his acquisition of the Community Lounge in the Security Mutual Building.
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Recording 11
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1978-04-11
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Celeste, Daniel ; O'Neil, Dan
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2016-03-27
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Broome County Oral History Project
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33:12 Minutes
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Broome County Oral History Project
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Broome County -- History
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
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2
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
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Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
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Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
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Cinotti, Dominick
Interviewer
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Politylo, Nettie
Date of Interview
1978-06-08
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Streaming Audio
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55889">Interview with Dominick Cinotti</a>
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24:24 Minutes
Subject LCSH
Endicott Johnson Corporation Housing Program; Cinotti, Dominick -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Dominick Cinotti</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 8 June 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Nettie: Dominick, will you give me some recollections of Endicott, please?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dominick: Well, I can start with my grandfather when he had first come here the first time—and ah—two of his older boys, my father and my Uncle Dan—ah—they usually came to pay some debt off—you know—in the old country or to make things better for 'em at the time, and ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">When they got here, my grandfather was always telling stories about how they had to, ah—get from one section to another and depend on the railroad, you know, to get them there, either by hand cars or hop rides. Most of the time—[chimes ring]—they’re these, they were what they call section hands—like, between Apalachin, Vestal and into Lestershire where it crossed the Susquehanna River—time, most of this was done, as I say, with a hand car. If they had to get up there, usually on Sundays for Mass, they would start either from Apalachin or Vestal all the way to Lestershire on Main Street, Johnson City, ah—St. James Church—is the one—was the only Catholic church around, I guess, at the time, outside of Binghamton, and ah—they would go back and forth and there was stories, like sometimes, if they happen to walk the rails there and there were two fast freights or whatever coming through—they would have to stand sideways and just about be blown off the track and miss. That's one of his favorite stories, and how he could’ve gotten killed—and ah—there was quite a few accidents that way there—you know—you never watch them because when the trains would pile down on you. I remember—well, something that just came to my mind now, like our Oak Hill Ave. crossing was very dangerous—with the same effect there—cars were becoming numerous, and there was—later on they had watchman going on there—and ah—then there was quite a few accidents—you know—just by these darn crossings at the time, which was another thing—at the, say—ah—like they had to get from different places, and they spent time on the Lehigh railroad, which was another one between Owego, Newark Valley and Ithaca, and this Ithaca, there was a small town they would call Caroline—I guess it's still there today, outside, it’s between Richford and Ithaca—I guess, when you get off that area—there's been stories of these railroads—this is long before Endicott even existed, I guess, you know, a few years.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">It might’ve been a trip back to the old country that they would come back, because I guess they would try and the money ran out and they would try and get and make a life for themselves. So, with the two boys when they got interested in this and that. I remember my grandfather working on Washington Ave., and I mentioned the casino, I think, there they used to—call was put out by the, what they called “The Binghamton Railway Company” at one time, and they did this so they could get people to ride the trolley cars, which was another fascinating thing, you know, trolleys between Binghamton and all the way down to Ideal Park. Everything—you know at the time—there, before Endicott Johnson there, they had a pavilion that I could remember. The funny thing about these pavilion attractions, they had mirrors that would be squatty or elongated—I guess every kid in the Endicott area would remember this stuff. Well, going back to my grandfather, and my uncle and my father, when they first started to build Washington Avenue, it started from scratch—which was meadowland—and then they put that street in—originally Washington Avenue, the business section was supposed to be McKinley Ave.—this is why McKinley Ave. is wider than any other streets—coming through there, and this, the trolley tracks were supposed to come up to the North Side—believe or not—over that viaduct they had there—it was the only viaduct, I just remember that—so they did put the business district more to the west than it happened to be—ah—Washington Ave.—they ran that spur right down Washington Ave.—trolley spur would go all the way into McKinley Ave., and that was it. About that time is where, this was where IBM or the original Bundy was being built then—my uncle, I remember one of them, was running wheelbarrows up the second floor and up to the sections there, just loaded down—where they could just put that concrete up—it was all done by hand at the time—this is the way he always mentioned, you know, about working on these darn planks—a lot of people—just a lot of wheelbarrows would just hurl down—because they couldn't make it, and this is the original IBM—if you say, this is a little off the corner—wasn't really on North Street, just a little further in—then across, where the Laboratory is now, in the building there, there was a Peerless Dairy—I guess at the time—that, I guess most of the kids could remember that part of that burned down at one time, and then along North St., I remember, there was a old garage, they used to fix cars there in that section—but that is all changed now. In fact, I'd say—Endicott today, if it ever got any bigger there I'd wouldn't like it—I don't think, most of the natives don't. It's getting to be like a city—traffic—whole Triple Cities area. More people are finding it's a good way of life here, especially the New York City people. In fact, I think I'm responsible for a couple of doctors moving in this area. My brother gave me a call from Georgetown, once, right before graduation. There was a white doctor, so as to speak—reason I say “white,” because Wilson Memorial was getting all these foreign, Indians, and—not Koreans, but in that Filipino like the rest of these two—come up and intern so—ah—Ernie called me up one afternoon, he said, "Show them the Triple Cities," which I did, you know—and he liked it. He was from Staten Island—he had a child—and his wife was ready for another one, I guess, and he was graduating and he took one look at this area, from Staten Island, you know, he liked it very much. He's a prominent doctor—physician, in fact he went right into EJ—went into residence, he's a good internist now—his name is Dr. Ponterio, and he came up because through, my brother would tell him stories about the Triple Cities, and through him—there's been another doctor—another dentist, I guess, was Dr. Cargoza, that came right up from that Staten Island area, so you can see the influx of the Triple Cities—by these city physicians and professional men that are getting out of New York City—to come up in this area. That's very prominent—I noticed—oh—what else can I say?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Can I talk about, about EJ? Now I'll start right in. The way we started off with EJ—I know I spent 47 years with the company. I can say that we were treated fairly well—outside the knowledge—that people—you know that they might knock the company. I can say for their medical program, and if it wasn't for Endicott Johnson, I guess, I, because my father died young—I was left with two sisters, two brothers and a mother. During the Depression there—we had a hard time—through this EJ Medical program, you know, you couldn't really look for a job in any way—then most of the people in the area, you know, it was a program, free dental, free medicine. In fact, I know people who were flown down to St. John Hopkins—then they had something like, well, TB, was years ago very prominent, if you will recall. They even had a place outside of Saranac Lake, over there, where they used to send workers, which was quite prevalent—I'd say, where some of the workers were down there—it was nothing to spend thousands of dollars on them—whatever it was. I remember one case—I'd say, a girl on Murphy Ave—wasn't it? Or somewhere where a young girl was burned almost—I'd say about 60% of her body, and it was through plastic surgery—thousands, thousands of dollars—on these hospitals—it’s things like this that are unheard of—I know it will pass through records—you know, people will forget very easily.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, say, well, when my father first come—we'll get right back to, ah—the way they built their house—was on Endicott Johnson. Now this is before they gave EJ homes—I mean—before they got that started—they gave away land, and through Endicott Land Company. Outside corner lots—you had to pay $100 per corner lot—anything else was free—we lived at Odell Ave., behind the school near Witherill St. When I was born in Italy—I was about eight or nine months old, and my mother, when we came here—my father was already building the house on Odell Ave., which went down after a while, I guess, after many years my mother was very sorry about that—to see the house go down because they had to have a playground for the kids.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, the only thing we had to play on rocks really—on the side of the school—North Side School—before they built it. I know I was saying something about Marko's having a window there—it was a good target for baseball or football or anything, and this window, you know, being broken—say—times everything—that was my cousin, my brother and another boy—we had to split this charge about, I'd say about 13-something a piece to pay for the window—this Marko, he was a, he had a heart of gold but he could only do so much. He was very good about it—I remember him knocking on the door and he said, "Dom, I know it was your brother”—you know, everything like this and that—“You want to pay for the window? I just can't get any more insurance.” That was a week's pay as far as we were concerned—stuff like this. If you want to ask me anything else—possibly how we entertained ourselves?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Nettie: I think that would be interesting—how you entertained yourself.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dominick: At the time, we used to play dankeeper [</span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">sic</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;">]—and I wouldn't tell kids today, they had to open water tanks—that is something else I remember—follow the arrow—they used to have a ladder, and iron ladder, going up these things, and we'd start swinging around these darn ladders that go into the inside of these things they are 30-40 feet deep. We'd go down the ladder—we’d have to follow the arrow and cross it off and come up the ladder and swing around and follow the arrow down and see—and these are well protected. We just used to shimmy up old low wooden things that we used to hide—and they had a door, we never broke the lock on the door, but we used to go over it and get down and things like that—you often wonder today.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">For Halloween—we used to take rosin and a piece of string and, say, about 150 feet or so away from the house, and attach with a rubber washer and a screw—make a lot of noise, and that was the—oh—that was the—thank God—I didn't say about the entertainments and our curfew—which was another, and they took off the list. Maybe it is still a law as far as Endicott is concerned—it might be still on the record.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">A nine o'clock curfew—going down to the movie, I'll never forget. There were six of us on our street and our parents wanted to impress us, I guess, about this </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dante's Inferno</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;">. We all went down to Washington Ave., and we got into that movie—it was about 6 o'clock at night, and we never realized the movie was long, it can happen with—I can still remember the time because it was a little after we used to have the town clock there—it was about ten after nine—six of us were walking across the street, about where Burt's might be now, or they had the fire station right there and police station was there—and one of the policemen, he didn't have anything else to do, whatever, and he came right there and took us in. Our parents had to come down for us—there was no phones to call them up—they got word for them and they had to walk down as there was no transportation for us. And that was it, that was the event.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Nettie: Then you got home and you got the devil.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dominick: No, no, we were sent by our parents to see the movie—there was nothing, you know, that they could do—as I said—kids today should appreciate what they have—as far as freedom—because that 9 o'clock curfew is, just wrought-iron. I wouldn't be surprised that that</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">wasn't still on the books.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Nettie: Well, you had some really interesting recollections, Dom.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dominick: I could go through a lot of them, the tanneries. [Bells chime]. We used to run between the pits, mostly down at the tanneries—anyone that's familiar—they had vats that were about 6 feet or 8 feet deep with acid or with stuff, and we'd do down for wax or whatever it was you have, we’d start running it between the darn vats and just that first thing—probably ten inches wide—one of those with an acid bath—splinter there—this was our fun in the tanneries. Then they would have a stacks of bales upon the thing—we would play King of the Hill—right on these darn bales of leather they had outside on some of these, lower Oak Hill Ave. or in freight houses in that stuff there. We were used to that smell—it was just part of—right by the tanneries. I can always remember talk about putting people on the spot—you know, I might have been a young brat—your father might have been one of them who bought magazines or smelly like perfumes like that that we would turn in for prizes of a movie camera or projector that you'd never get what they would take, or sell them some bottles of some sort of cologne—some had enough of them, but they all chipped in. Oh, they were a great bunch of people—we would go there to have our lunch—they would have fun themselves, because they were Russians, Italians, Czechoslovakians, it was a great—they had fun there—made fun of each other in a kidding way—like on Christmas especially, because the Julian calendar—like the Italians or any of them who had Christmas would come around—then the Russian Orthodox would come with umbrellas—especially if it was raining and there was no snow—this was a great, great thing, and January 7—I can remember that on January 7, that they would have snow but we would always get even with them on Easter—because I can remember my parents, they used to go in their shirtsleeves even if it was bitter cold, just to show that Easter come late. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">It's talk about exchanging recipes, the Italians were great on greens and fried peppers and all that stuff, and they would exchange on holubkys. I remember eating holubkys when I was growing up because of the Russians—whoever—exchanged sandwiches—when we would have lunches—coming back from Henry B. Endicott or high school.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">And another thing I can remember, really, when IBM took advantage of the diner—if you can remember, for 15¢—sometimes EJ workers wouldn't get in because IBM was there—I can go a step further—where it got to a point where most of my friends were IBM-ers. I remember one asked me, "Dom, it's my turn to entertain—can you get me eight tickets for a banquet?" Well, that does the line—I finished them off, because for $1.00 you could wine, dine and have a great time with a band—got to a point where EJ workers, themselves, were not attending—a lot of IBM friends—but what the heck, I could not blame them for doing this—but this was where Charlie Johnson was trying to be a good Joe. He could never keep with George F. He wanted to be liked—he tried many ways—but he just couldn't.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Another thing, if they wanted to know something—I played golf for 25¢. You go around the country—I've been to quite a few places, you tell them this stuff about playing golf for 25¢, they wouldn't believe you—if you had a course on there—this is well known that were no hazards on it, he said, “I don't want my workers climbing hills and everything after a day's work,” which was true—not on a golf course—for 25¢—we used to play, that was another thing, they wanted to borrow our cards—people didn't work for Endicott Johnson just to go down there and play for a 25¢. Then if I remember there were quite a few stories, like lots of the time we wanted to go to the IBM’s neighboring golf course, you couldn't get on there—you had to almost sign your life away to get on there as a guest. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">So, this is the part of the difference between EJ and IBM—which is true. IBM is a great company—there is no getting around it, but they were a lot stricter—’cause EJ, what happened to EJ was their own fault as far as management—as far as anything else, because the workers—in the first place they were too lenient and then they were too generous. But, IBM, as a company, you can see, they do a lot for their workers today and then a lot more than Endicott Johnson could ever manage. Well, there might be a few more stories—there might be a few stories to think about to my recollections. You came to interview my wife—and—I—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Nettie: Dom, thank you very much. It has been interesting. [Pause]. Dominick Cinotti is the husband of Angelina Cinotti.</span></p>
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Dominick Cinotti
Subject
The topic of the resource
Endicott Johnson Corporation Housing Program; Cinotti, Dominick -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service
Description
An account of the resource
Dominick Cinotti of Endicott, NY talks about his grandfather, father, and uncle's emigration from Italy. He discusses the railroads and trolley cars as their means of transportation, the development of the downtown and business district of Endicott. He worked for the Endicott Johnson Corporation and mentions the medical and home ownership programs provided by the company. He also tells anecdotes from his childhood.
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Binghamton University Libraries
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/mp3
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English
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Recording 14
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Cinotti, Dominick ; Politylo, Nettie
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1978-06-08
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2016-03-27
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Broome County Oral History Project
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24:24 Minutes
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Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
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2
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Chase, Doris
Interviewer
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Dobandi, Susan
Date of Interview
1978-05-08
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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23:01 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55883">Interview with Doris Chase</a>
Subject LCSH
Chase, Doris -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; Librarians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Lowell School of Business; Broome County Courts
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Transcription
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Doris E. Chase</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 8 May 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Miss Chase, could you start by telling us where you were born, something about your parents, and any recollections you have of your early childhood and later on your work experiences in the community?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Doris: Yes, I was born in Windsor, NY, on February 11, 1914. I couldn't have had better parents. They were good Christian people and they welcomed me into the home. I had two brothers, eight and ten years older than I was, and they had been praying for me for eight years, and here the little girl comes to town. A little offset would be nice to tell you that when, ah, brother Ronald, when he knew that I had arrived at one o'clock in the afternoon, he went and rang every doorbell in Windsor to tell them he had a little baby girl Doris, and I can say he still loves me as much which is wonderful. Well I went to school in Windsor ’til I was in the, ah, sixth grade, and then I—we moved to California ’cause my father thought he wanted to get out of the undertaking business and work out there with my aunts and uncles, and I went to a school—first the Menlo Avenue School, which was very interesting. My people sort of put me on my own, at the time I thought I was desperate, because I thought to go in, I was a little girl from Windsor and I was scared to death, but they put me in what you call an “opportunity class” that find out what you can do. From Windsor to Los Angeles was quite a stride but every day I walked by the famous Coliseum and played around there, which I—now you have your big football games and your—but I was there a whole term and I worked myself so hard, I was so worried about not making good, that I skipped a whole grade.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then I was over to Angeles Massus School where we bought a home there in Los Angeles. This was very interesting to me, too, because in those days I didn't know about Spanish homes and this was a Spanish type of school, and you played handball all winter long and you rollerskated to school in the middle of the blocks that's—was the way it was set up, so it was a great thrill and a great experience. Well, after a year my dad decided to return, and we came to Binghamton and he bought the funeral home on Exchange Street in 1924. Well I spent my days going into high school at the age of 12, which was an early age, and I graduated at 16 and I took college entrance, where it was of great value to me ‘cause I still reiterate that Latin and French are very good, especially Latin, for people today, and I stress it with my students in the library now. Then I was to go for Physical Ed and was accepted at Cortland State College, but I had an operation which changed my life around, which I think the Lord did do this because he had something else better for me, so I went to business school here in Binghamton at Lowell’s, and I graduated from there and the first job I had, they got for me down on Susquehanna Street in a plumbing company. Well I was only there two weeks, and for this reason—my mother played in a bridge club where Walker Sherwood, the County Treasurer, his daughter played in it, and she asked my mother if Doris had work. She said, “Well, yes, but she didn't want to stay there." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">So she said that he wanted somebody to type the tax sale, and we'd be there a month. The job would be a month’s job, and I said to Mother, "I'm going to take it. I'm going to get my foot in the door on the Courthouse.” So on July 3rd in 1933 I entered the Courthouse, and I'm still with it now. This is in 1978 through many jobs, but Walker Sherwood was the president of the bank here in the city and he was appointed by Governor Charles Hughes to take over the County Treasurer, and he taught me everything I knew in banking. It was a delightful thing to start working with him, ’cause I remember the first day I was very scared and he said, “Just get on the job and make good, ‘cause I was told that when I became a runner in the bank and worked up to President.”</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">We didn't start the tax sale that day. It wasn't quite ready, so he said, "I've got—I'm gonna have you sort checks." Again, I was so scared that I sorted all the checks in one day and it was quite a standing joke in the office. (Chuckle.) Well, I progressed, of course, and ah—ah, Walker Sherwood died, and then I was appointed Deputy County Treasurer by Ralph Page, the new Treasurer, and I had five girls under me. It was much fun and a lot of hard work. I got into court with trust funds, mortgage taxes, et cetera—made trips to Albany and had many friendships.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, my life went along, and then I did go to Houston, Texas, for a short time. I was married and I worked in an interesting place there. The man we bought our home from was the—the City Treasurer of Houston and also the Chief of the Civil Service, and the uncanny part of it, I, he said—he said, "Where are you from?" and I said, “Binghamton, you've never heard of it." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">And he says, "Oh yes I have,” because the Chief of Police, Joe Sullivan at that time, he said, “I went to the FBI School with him,” and he said, "Well, why don't you come—come to work for me?" And I said, "Well, I wouldn't know the Texas laws." And he said, "Well, we need help,” and he says, "We're really in dire straits because we are just beginning to put the IBM payrolls on—on machines, and we don't just know how to do it.''</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, I began to laugh. He said, "What are you laughing at?” I said, “We were the guinea pig of the whole United States when the IBM started that." So he says, "Come to work Monday.” So that was an experience that I had working there. I worked there six months, and then my husband drove out the driveway and left me and I have never seen him since and that was twenty-six years ago now, but life was still open. God was seeing his way, opening—closing doors and then opening another for, and so when I came home in May, Judge Brink called me up. He says, "I hear you’re home, Doris," and I said, "Yes," and he said, "Well I have an opening the first of September. You are going to come and work for me as—in the county judge." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">And I said, "Well, I don't know that work." He says, "Well I will teach you." That was the most delightful ten years I have—he was a very honorable man, he taught me so many things. He taught me how to read briefs, how to take decisions. I had pistol permits, which, everything is divided now in different departments—called the Jury Commissioner, I did that where, and it was—it was really an experience and it was gearing me for my further life coming on.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">So the, the librarian died—Miss Lee, who had been there fifty years—and Judge McAvoy came to me and he said, "I would like to have you come and take over." Well, again I reiterate I didn't know the work. He said, "I don't know it either, but I know that you will get in there and work hard." So, it was quite a time to take over everything, because everything was behind and the Library was closed down for several days because just everything was—supplements were back and everything needed attention, so until we could get straightened around, why, it—it took quite a while, but I did go to visit—well, the first library I visited was the United States Supreme Court Library—a very interesting man, Dr. Hurdon was delighted when I told him my story. He said, "Anybody will do this." He said, "You sit right down and I will talk with you a whole afternoon, get you straight on your treatises and so forth." And he really gave me a great start to come back to set up the library and there were many other, ah, libraries that I did go to, and then I took the courses that were offered by another fine man who was the Appellate Division Librarian. He was also a teacher out of Chicago in his earlier days, and he taught us in New York how to do the Law Library—catalog work, and many, many things, so that, people have always been helpful in my life and I now I'm getting in the stage where I want to leave for posterity. I want to help the students I have, the SUNY students and I have the teachers from Cortland State Teachers College, you see I have volumes there that in this area the State provides, and they don't have it in other libraries, only in Cornell. Not everybody can go to Cornell University to look these up.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">But, getting back to the men in my life, they have always influenced me, but the greatest influence was my father, for every morning we had prayers, even from a little girl I remember him down there reading his Bible, and he always had such wonderful thoughts to offer you and I know it—it's influenced my life greatly, and he said, "Doris, if you keep your faith He'll always stand by you." And it's so true, even in the library work I have my New Testament in my desk drawer, and if I lack wisdom I look up in the Book of James for help and God has never failed me. It might not be that moment, it might not be that hour, it might be next week, but He's always—always helped me, and I'm so grateful for that kind of background, that’s what everybody needs to get through this life, and I'm just so thankful that I have had these fine men and everybody, and I do love my lawyers. They know I'll do anything for them and people would be happy if they really gave her the life. Money isn't everything. It's—and another thing, ah, character is important, not that I'm so good, but I've tried to fill the principles that they taught me. So now, and I'm in my church work at St. Paul’s Lutheran Church and I enjoy the class, and we have an adult class, which is really—we enjoy, and we are helpful to many, many people that we reach out to them and if they need groceries or if they need help in many ways, we talk with them and it's a very satisfying life. I think, of course, the older you grow, the more you turn your thoughts to God, I guess, but in my own life I can't say that. I'm always—always going to church. I've tithed. I've done it from a little girl up and I have never lacked for anything—I might get down to my last penny, but I've always been supplied with everything in this life. It's hard to think of so many things that have happened, ah—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, I've been honored, which is very nice. I—way back, I hadn't been in the Library too long. It was in October of 1969, and I got a letter from the Bar Association and they asked me to come to their dinner as their guest, and I really—I couldn't think why they'd want me there, but anyway I soon found out. They honored me with two beautiful corsages, and for bringing the Library back to life. It was—it was certainly a tribute—a standing tribute. It was almost too much for me, but then I stood on my feet and I thanked them for what they did, and then I said, "There are a few things that you’ve left out." And they of course looked surprised, and I said, "Well—I, there were things that I'm called upon to do by all of you when you go into court, and this is true, I've sewed on many buttons on coats and blue suits and have had to go there. I've had to call wives. I've had to read things back on the telephone when you were desperate. You have keys and you come to my house nights and Sundays and everything else, so I guess I sort of mother all of you." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well, later on in life I had another honor, which I was very, very pleased. I went home one day and I had a letter from the Women of Status Council, and I—I didn't really know what it was. I started reading and they said they wanted me to come to a dinner again and that they wanted a brief biography of myself, and this was held in the Ramada Inn and my honor was for my work in the community in Law, not as a lawyer, but being helpful to the people and the students trying to—going way beyond my line of duty to—to give something, and as I say, if I know something I try to impart it. There's one other thing, too, when—well, judges, I have them and they come in and ask me and I say, “I don't know why you're asking me?” They said, "We came because we don't know and when we'll work." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Well I said, "I know I don't know, that's one thing I've always said if I don't, but there's a great big but—but I will start looking. We'll keep searching ’til we find it." I can't think of any other honors that I've had, but I love life. I love people. It's very evident I love people, because so many people say, "Well, it's so much fun to come in there, ’cause we always, it's not just like work, it's play." Well, I've had students, too, that it's been a—ah, I'll never forget, I remember one boy that I worked with, very hard with, in—in federal taxes and things like that, and he went on to, ah, Hastings College in California, and it was several years later that I looked up, and here he was in my library, and he said, "I was near Binghamton and I just had to come back and tell you,” he said, “how much you did for me,” and he said, “You know you made my life very easy in Federal Taxes when I went to college, because,” he said, "you went into great depth to, ah, to teach me." And as I say, “When you didn't know, I used to call David Sterns, ’cause he's tops in that field. I never called him until we got to the, until when we—we just didn't know where we were going." And so I felt very pleased about that. There have been many rewarding things that have, and you—you can help students.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">I remember one boy, too—he came in, and a professor had brought his class up, and he was going to show him, and he was trying to save me and he was trying to show what the library—how to look for things. Well, he went so rapidly that this poor boy, he sat down and he says, "I will never be a lawyer, I—I just can't grasp it this fast." And I says, "Don't worry, I'll talk with you afterwards." So after it was over with, I said to him, "When you have time, you come up and make an appointment with me here in the Library,” and I said, "I will take time and I will show you what we have here and you can ask me any questions, and you take notes because I know that your father wants you to become a lawyer." And I said, "Don’t get discouraged by just this little." He never got over it and I didn't either, but it—these things in life that count that are worthwhile. It's just wonderful to be able to be—well, I think I'm privileged to be in this position of being with these men working under them and God. I can't say but what He really planned my life and it's opened up as I've gone along, and as I say I gave this speech, "The Men in My Life," to the Exchange Club, and as I—I prepared for it—it took me about two months because I wouldn't get up and speak in front of men if I didn't know what I was talking about, and I realized then for the first time that I never applied for a job. So I'm happy, and I'm just glad to do this for you for posterity.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Well, thank you very much, Doris, for taking the time out to come up and talk with us. I knew that, ah—about your background, but it is a story that only you could tell us and I appreciate it very much. Thank you.</span></p>
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Doris Chase
Subject
The topic of the resource
Chase, Doris -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; Librarians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Lowell School of Business; Broome County Courts
Description
An account of the resource
Doris Chase talks about her Christian upbringing in Binghamton, NY. She attended the Lowell School of Business and worked as the Deputy County Treasurer. She moved to Houston, TX for a short time. She returned to Binghamton and was employed with the Broome County Courts first under Judge McAvoy and later as the librarian. She discusses her revitalization of the library, service to the community and honors from the Bar Association.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Format
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audio/mp3
Language
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English
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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Recording 12
Contributor
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Chase, Doris ; Dobandi, Susan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1978-05-08
Date Modified
Date on which the resource was changed.
2016-03-27
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Broome County Oral History Project
Extent
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23:01 Minutes
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
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The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Titchner, Dorothy
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-03-15
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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33:54 Minutes ; 11: 28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56042">Interview with Dorothy Titchener</a>
Subject LCSH
Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity
Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics
Accessibility
Copy/Paste below:
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Dorothy Titchener
Subject
The topic of the resource
Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity; Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics
Description
An account of the resource
Dorothy Titchener speaks about her life including her marriage to Paul Titchener, the founder of <a href="http://www1.sunybroome.edu/">Broome Community College</a>, and working twenty years as chairman of the Housing Authority. She mentions her affiliation with the Business and Professional Women's Club and their efforts to nominate <a href="http://www.aauw.org/2013/11/21/judge-sarah-tilghman-hughes/">Judge Sarah Hughes</a> as Vice President during the Eisenhower-Taft election. She lists among her acquaintances individuals, such as, President and Mrs. Franklin D. Roosevelt and <a href="http://www.hallofgovernors.ny.gov/NelsonRockefeller">Governor Rockefeller</a>. She also details her achievements with the Girl Scouts Council and purchasing a lake, named Amahami, as a camp for the Girl Scouts club. She mentions her affiliation with the Junior League and Business and Professional Women's Club, as well as other local organizations.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Rights
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/m4a
Language
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English
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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Recording 61A ; Recording 61B; Recording 61C
Contributor
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Titchener, Dorothy ; O'Neil, Dan
Date
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1978-03-15
Date Modified
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2016-03-27
Is Part Of
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Broome County Oral History Project
Extent
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33:54 Minutes ; 11:28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes
-
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�ACTION FOR OLDER PERSONS
BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
ABSTRACT
Dr. Carl S. Benson whose approximate age is 80 was born in
Binghamton, N. Y.
He graduated from Binghamton Central High
School, Colgate University and studied medicine at Buffalo,
tL
Y.
ur. Benson mentions working in the Erie Penitentiary during
World War I - later operated a sanitarium in Dansville before
coming back to Binghamton.
He was a memoer of the cardiology
department at Binghamton General, Lourdes and tlancock Hospital.
ue is well known and has been honored for his charitable work for the
Lions Club, American Legion and ti1e Shriners.
�ACTION for Older Persons, Inc.
Independent, Membership-based, Non-profit
Broome County Court House, Room 307
Court House Square, Binghamton, New York 13901
Telephone (607) 722-1251
BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Interview Transcription
Interviewer:
Susan D obandi
Address:
Person Interviewed:
Address:
Date: 6/8/78
Tape No.:
1
295 Front St., Binghamton, N. Y.
Dr. Carl S. Benson
109 Murray St., Binghamton, N. Y.
Date of Birth or approximate age:
80
(Dr. Benson, could we start this interview by having you tell us where
you were born, something about your parents and any of your recollections
of your childhood?)
That's easy.
the westside.
I was born on 5 King Ave. between Walnut and a and it's on
It's between a Walnut and St. John.
came from Sweden.
My mother and father
My mother from the north of Sweden and my father from
the south of Sweden.
Mother talked very much about having come from the
place where the King used to spend his summers out in the open and my
grandfather I realize now was the man that insulated an fortified the
iron mines of Sweden so that if anybody attempted to take over they merely
blew up the bridges andthey had so much trouble getting the iron ore out
that they never did.
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
2
They met here in Binghamton my father being from the south of Sweden
and my mother from the north.
I always kidded mother about stealing
her sisters girl - boyfriend but they had a rather happy life together
till mother over did and showed herself to me as a medical problem
which I had a lot of fun solving.
As for me I went to St. John Ave. School.
I had only one sister
Ruth who was five years older than I was and followed the same trail
and the thing I think you would enjoy the most was that I was constant
ly reminded that I wasn't supposed to be relying on somebody else I
was supposed to dig it out for myself and I was supposed to keep
going no matter what happened.
My father was a tailor so called
merchant tailor at a time when there wasn't any such things as ready
made clothes and part of the fun was that I in the early grades in
school wore tailor made clothes and often got in trouble with the
teachers because they couldn't understand why the clothes I had on
made so much noise with the!: corduroy knees banging each other and
actually asked me if I didn't have any other clothes I could wear to
school.
Today I'd like to have such good clothes back.
Work - I can remember the very funny things that happened there was
the time somebody stole our Thanksgiving dinner that we had carelessly
put on top of the refrigerator on top - on the back porch at 5 King
Ave. We didn't get much to eat that day.
It was a lot of fun.
We
had a lot of time trying to find it.
One of the stories that might interest you was that the man on the
corner who was a horse tailor got after me to prove that he knew more
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
3
about the things then 1 did and my father did and said "Of course we
grew horses and horses barns."
He said "Didn't 1 realize if 1 plant
ed a cigar box and watered it regularly every day in about six weeks it
ought to come up and show me a horse barn that 1 could be proud of."
So 1 tried it and at the end of four weeks he told me "Didn't 1 know
the top from the bottom"
So 1 dug it up and turned it over and it
wasn't till the six weeks were well up that he never admitted just said
1 got the wrong kind of cigar box."
You see these queer things for
instance his office - his where he fixed leather and did all this stuff
was on State St. behind Sissons and in front of it was the old canal.
My father lives on - worked on the other side in the Bosket Block and
that was the way life was treated.
They were both equal - now do we
get a rest.
1 started school at St. John Ave. school and 1 can still see our
kindergarden and our first grade where Bill and Ed Keeler and some of
the - the rest of the boys were sure that if they took their hands and
folded them around the side ways they could see what was going on the
room and it was just as good as having them sit as well as having
them sit on the edge of the stage - of the desk.
One of the boys
Doff Kane just followed one of the girls out of the kindergarden and
it wasn't till two days later that we found out that he had gone on and
supposed to have been promoted anyway because he was older than the
rest of us.
the desks.
Third grade was fine cause of the exercises we got up on
We gathered up books as being bricks, stones and we went through
all the stories of llliad, the Romans and their troubles and threw
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
4
the books on the floor just with a grand abandon that made it a great
life.
We really enjoyed Mrs. Tillapough's teachings.
I could go on teach
and tell you about each of the other kids each of the other teachers
just as well of course.
Miss Hunt was the principal but we never had
any trouble with her we didn't know enough·· to.
She kept us busy and
we kept her busy and that's all that was necessary.
nephew in the class with us.
Course we had her
Maybe that helped us stay out of trouble.
From the sixth grade we moved over to Laurel Ave. under old Professor
Johnson for out 7th - 7th grade and that was when I used to ride a
bicycle across to school.
over to Laurel Ave.
It was quite a ways down from where we were
But that was when we had all the fun nobody knew
what to do, nobody cared.
Then we went on to high school.
8th 9th and 10th 11th and 12th over in high school.
We had the
No not the high school
you people know about but in the same place until we wore the building out
or they thought we did or said we wouldn't get a new one if they didn't
stop using it and then I remember when they decided to close it up.
They
put the letters the colors and the letters of the class on the school.
We
got up on the fourth floor on the fire hatches handed two by fours to
through down if the other class got in our way or started to come after us.
Instead one of the boys got the fire hoses out of the Front St.
fire
department and we had a grand time watching them walk up and chop those
hoses to stop the water so they could get at us.
Now I got to get back to teaching at our school.
It seems to me that
I must have been along about the ,{th or 5th grade when I started to
�Dr. Carl g. Benson
Page
5
to doing some work on the outside.
Maybe it was younger but I was
delivering flowers for Oshier up on 148 Court St.
shag I got 10¢ for it.
If it was a long
If it was a short shag I got 5¢ and he always
used to kid me on how much money I took down at the end of the week
for a guy that was just riding around on a bicycle.
I would almost get
I think on the average of five dollars maybe a little less maybe a
little more depending on how business was.
I got shipped down to Graham.
Then he disappeared and
Graham's Florist Shop was in Wally
Websters Drug Store which was 45 Court St. next door to the corner of
Walnut - uh uh Washington St. and Court.
Wally said the smart thing
to do is to buy buildings next to the corners or where if anybody was
going to increase the size of their place they'd have to take your
place in.
In that way you'd make money on any enlargement of the
town without having too much invested that was where I learned that
if you stole old time tombstones and you poured a little acid on them
that make pretty good soda and that's what you gave people in place of
soda on their ice cream.
sometimes less.
Ice cream was worth 10¢ or sometimes 5¢
Those were in the days when we used to see these
special men come through.
The automobile stage was just starting to
grow and there was one man that had a small two seated or one seated
buggy but he had his wheels on his pulling whee�s on backwards and
therefore the horse twas behind you and pushed you foreward and he tooktook that I tmagine he'd go pretty fast too but he was just advertising
a new kind of ice cream or a new kind of softdrink.
Made quite something
to work with.
Then, I got interested in other work.
The morning newspaper came along
�Dr. Carl�. Benson
Page
6
course the business be+onged to Carl Legg's father and then he sold
it and that brought it out in the open.
When I used to go to dances in
high school I'd used to have to get up before 2'o'clock and we didn't
get home much before that in order to get over and roll the singles for
the old morning paper.
I'd roll about 50 of those and then lay down
on the bags - the mail bags then get up and carry the longest route up
to the top of Mount Prospect and into the old tavern up Front St. next
to Prospect St.
That's where they give you the description of the real
early things that happened here in Binghamton.
My father and I used to argue a lot about Court St. bridges, boats and
spent a good many nice days in the summer pushing a roeboat up and down
the Chenango River borrowing it from Mr. Ritz or renting it rather from
Mr. Ritz at the corner of Laurel Ave. and the river.
just what you were going to get into.
Violet Island.
We had one island that we called
We had another island that was a littlebit tough to get
at but you went out where the 4th Ward sewer came in.
a little bit dirty.
island.
You always got
You went out rode up then down and landed on an
Dad and I always called our island.
other way.
You never knew
Then we had to hunt up the
There was always something to think about.
If you went up
the Chenango and I've tried and took my canoe later up to Port Dick and
all the way to Lilly lake and right up the river right back down.
left it in Port Dick for a whole summer.
I had a lot of fun.
I
We'd sneak
around behind a barn loosed up underneath the barn drop it into the
water then climb in then go around the landing to show that we were there.
It's a wonderful thing and always we worried about the Chenango River
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
7
and then we remembered that there was an old man named Mr. Whittemore
that got my interest first in steamboats because he told me about the
steamboat that used to come up the Chenango River - Susquehanna River
and Chenango River from Owego every spring did it for a number of years
and the people came up and went down but in my early days we usually
caught tlte train at about 8 o'clock on Saturday night went down to
Owego and then took the boat up as far as Ouaquaga as Hiawathia Island
or on up further to the endings in Hickory Grove.
stretch in those days.
That was a beautiful
I've heard them talk about it a good many
times before my time but I was too busy working to pay much attention
to riding around in it.
Court St. bridge.
Then I remembered what Dad had told me about
It seems that the boats used to come up and stop
against those big trees that used to be back of McDevitts so I had to
find out about it.
Find out what it was what was happening and why
the end of it there was so little not big enough and I did I stuck
my nee¥, in it.
Before ti1e bridge was finis lied or built there was a
ferry that used to come across there and that tied up just above where
the bridge came in and came across the river almost straight and stopped
about where Main St. or Court St. is and you could load and unload to
catch the bridge er to catch the ferry.
The next thing that happened
was that they cornmensed to fuss about wanting to do something and it
was because they didn't like the way in which things were done.
I
know my Dad at that time said he had a chance to buy the old farm
that ran all the way down to about where the Lourdes Hospital is and
up as far as Leroy St. and down to the river and down to the junction
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
8
and back up to about Leroy St.
Can't remember the name of the farm
right now but Dad was very seriously interested in buying it and he
was going to get that land for $2,000.
over toQuaker Lake.
The people that sold it went
They had a place over there too but I don't
remember the name.
Then we had to worry about why all these strange things were set up
around Main St. and when I checked up Sam Wear said his father had
a bar there for years in fact he said there were five bars between
Front St. and the Chenango River.
Maybe that accounts for their
going after the law because I understand that's when they got to
work - that's when they got to work and built the church at Wal at a Front St. and Main St.
It took me a long time to figure it out
then I found the ruling any territory with a church in it cannot
have a saloon or a bar within a hundred twenty-five feet of the front
door of the church now that old rule has been in for a long time an
probably accounts for why 4 of the 5 things disappeared unless some
body has forgotten the laws.
The thing that counts in rememberance
is that when we came to building the Sheraton, the Ramada and the
rest of the new hotels that were wanted to be near the water just
across the bridge they all of a sudden stopped and moved them a block
away.
I think I know the reason because I looked up some of the deeds
on lower Main St. and over on Front St. and they all contained this
record that no building can be put across south of Main and Front er Court St. unless it's far enough away and unless there is an opening
through it left down to the river so that people can take their
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
animals to the ford and across the river.
Page
9
That's why you'll find that
big mark in the bottom of the Treadway building.
I remember also that we
built a very lovely little park on the end of Wall St. and Wall St. was
connected with this other stuff but people all forgot it and it disappear
ed.
I wonder how many people remember its name.
It was Carmen Park and
while I'm speaking about parks we had one over on the southside wherein
there was a tree for every man killed in World War II and a nameplate on
it but I was over there the other day and God if we can go through big wars
like World War II with no more losses than that we better stick up in
the first ranks because I assure you I couldn't find enough trees or
enough plaques to justify our even having been considered as being in
World War II.
Now I think we ought to look up and see whether this new business about
extending the high school and shutting off the ford with kids coming
from high school and with a parking lot and with some other things like
that can be done any better and any more legally than shutting it off for
hotels and places to eat particularly when the city is kinda short of
money
It was during these times when I was wondering around town that we all
got wrapped up in cigar bands and we used to argue as to whether it was
smarter to stop in the cigar factories which were on Wall St., Water St.,
State St. was solid from Court to Henry and see if we couldn't buy beg or
steal a few cigar bands that were out of the ordinary so we could make
money.
As a matter of fact there was a lot of them that were so out of
the ordinary that if you found the owner and he had a smile on his face
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
10
he would give you half a dozen and then your collection would be way
way above your friends.
We had as many as 56 cigar factories around here
then they commenced to get into the factory kind where it wasn't made
by hand it was made by machinery and the last one I remember being here
into this part of the country was the General Cigar factory down on
Court St. - er Main St. down near Johnson City that worked for a few
years.
The problem was that we got much poorer tobacco for a while.
If you've traveled up through Canada and seen the various shades of
tobacco and seen the various kinds you realize that it's not a bad
crop to grow.
It's quite nice and if you've hunted around the old
barns down below Owego and seen the openings in the sides of the barns
where they drain and let the tobacco leaves dry you will quickly get
established in your own mind what a handy comfortable thing it is but it
requires a lot of work and we had just the people to roll them and not the
people to grow them maybe thats why we lost it and then we had to get so
many of our women folks had to get tied up in cigaretts and anxious about
cigaretts and they could buy them all rolled so they didn't look different
a lot cheaper or rather a lot more expensively than we could cigars.
High school and schools in Binghamton it seems funny to talk about them.
There was a little girl named Alice VanMoon and she beat me by 1/2 point
when we went up to St. John er to Laurel Ave. and on down into high school.
I know I could have caught her but she went and moved away.
Oh so I had
to go on and I graduated as :valedictorian I think when I graduated from
high school.
It was a big problem to remember because I was working all
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
11
the time on the side and despite the fact that I worked from 2 o'clock in
the morning up till school time.
I worked after school until 7 or 8 o'clock
at night I thought I was pretty darn lucky when I got in twelve - thirteen
dollars a week as an adult maybe after I got into college I realized more
about it.
I had $285.00 in my pocket when I left for college.
If I hadn't
been fortunate enough to find some friends up there who knew where the
cheap places to eat were because I remember the chap that went with me he
was a teacher afterwards at Cornell. We paid a $1.60 apiece for two rooms.
One to study in and one to sleep in and around the corner we paid $4 and
then $4.50 and then $4.60 and then $4.90 for a place to have our three meals
a day in comfort.
Of course it was the crowd that was there that made it
interesting because many of them were inclined to head for the ministry
and many long were the sermons that got preached at us while we sat there
waiting to see what was goiy,g to happen but if anybody was hungry they were
taken care of and you could buy a roast beef sandwich for 10¢ - you could
buy
We w�re lucky from Binghamton. We could go over to the Candy Kitchen
and Jimmy the Greek would say "I remember you."
thirsty."
We'd say, "Yes, and were
"Wait a minute" and he'd give us an ice cream so we wouldn't
feel too bad about it and we appreciated his kindness.
ial.
Fifteen cents would take you to the movies.
from somebody if you needed to.
Money wasn't essent
You could always borrow
There wasn't enough girls but what you
had a good alibi that there wasn't any girls to get so you didn't have one
and I think maybe that's the thing that made life worth while because it
certainly made us study a lot more than we would have otherwise.
Then we
would go on and I still remember even at my decrepit old age that my first
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
12
year in Colgate from the time I left in September to go till I came back
in June having finished one year cost me $496.16.
I think maybe that's
a record because I remember my last year in medicine cost me over $1100 or
pretty damn close and I know that's not counting the fact that I worked
in the fraternity house and I took care of the animals.
amimals for both physiology, biology.
The research
That's why I had to wear a
moustache because one of them got mad and caught me on the upper chin er
upper lip and it was a lot better having it covered by hair than not
having it covered at all.
There are many stories I could tell you about the faculty of Colgate.
It
was one of the grandest bunch of men I ever knew despite the fact there
were a lot of wonderful queer characters.
There was Johnny Green who
always bobbed around at us, flashed his eyes back an forth and said that
if he excercised his eyes enough that he wouldn't have to wear glasses
and then he had a man who was his assistant very big dignified fat man
that always put his paws down in front of you as though he was going to
bite you Spencer but he wouldn't.
He'd scare hell out of you.
could go on and talk about the rest.
Then I
My particular sidekick in these
days was Bill Turner six foot tall a big base voice, a bachelor.
He
took care of his mother and sister and always acted as though something
was going to push him around into something.
He was so afraid that
people would misunderstand him get him into trouble.
He even came to me
once and said, "I'm going to quit and " I said "Well let me look
things over a bit for you."
And I says, "No, you're not going to quit.
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
13
You're going to work a little harder than you have worked and you're gonna
do it more this way and you aren't gonna get mixed up with so many people."
And when he came to me five years later and said "I'm gonna quit."
"Yep, youre gonna quit now but not before.
I said,
You hadn't finished your job."
It's a wonderful feeling to be able to say I helped a professor as much
as they helped me but I didn't because he and his mother and his sister
fed me Sunday nights dinner for a good many years.
God knows I couldn't
sing I couldn't do anything else but I traveled with the Glee Club with
the sublimed feeling that I didn't have to worry because he told me, "Make
your mouth go big, smile good and for God's sakes if anybodies out of
tune shut up.
Now lets stop a minute.
It seems that along about my sophmore year in
Colgate I got on the pan and I never blamed them.
I suddenly decided
figuring closely that they were going to let me have my degree in three
years why couldn't I do three years work in two and a half - get the
.:,a
degree and talon I made the mistake that so many young fellows do and
old fellows maybe of thinking that rubber stamping something and throwing
it over your shoulder makes it get in your head.
It doesn't and I
remember when Dr. McGregory and Dr. Bryant and Cookie Cutter and a few
of the others Brigham looked at me point blank when I said, "I wanted to
get through in three years and they argued that it wasn't for my benifit
to get through in three years.
I'd do better if I stayed four and I
decided that eating those last year was kind of important and much more
important than just getting through so when Hog said that "He wouldn't allow
for it and he was objecting to it."
I said, "OK Dr. McGregory just for
that I'll major in your subjects and give you every opportunity to flunk
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
me you can get."
instead.
Page
14
He tried to talk me out of taking a couple of subjects
But I got through in three years and they were probably the happ
ist three years I have ever spent because Colgate is a beautiful, wonder
ful institution.
I'm glad Craig went there.
Afterwards I was tempted or persuaded and almost sure that I was going to
go to Cornell in order to get my medicine but I looked around and I saw
that Cornell started a class at Ithaca and a class in New York and at the
end of the year without saying anything you just became half out and half
as big as you were before so I didn't think that was very good and then
Sukie Higgerman said "I was nuts."
And I started for Buffalo where John
Dr. John Lappious had helped me get registered.
Well I arrived out there
on the train then went up the street to High Street.
I went in they were
very nice to me but I still don't know who saw me - who had anything to
do about it what happened to me and I think maybe it was the fact that
my class instead of being 76 succeeded in rounding up nineteen for our
first year.
So, you see if they do raise the requirements there is a
very definate reason for it.
get a job.
Then I had to snoop around and see if I could
Didn't get anywheres on that till somethin happened down
in the so called jail and the Erie County Penitentiary because of the flu
because of the - because of the and in came the flu - a most gorgeous mess.
So, I had to eat and live so John took me down to the penitentiary and
they looked at me and took off my soft hat - my a cap insisted I wear a
soft hat and I was fully signed in as a doctor in the Erie County Penitentiary
which became famous afterwards - after having had three weeks of medicine.
Well the first thing I did was told I oughta clean up the drug room - so
I started to and got some nice little country boy.
Didn't know why he
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
15
was in jail but he did the cleaning with me and helped me and he'd
light my cigars and gave me his tobacco.
God it was awful - couldn't
touch it but he was very proud of being an associate of mine.
That was
when I had my funny time when I met the Diamond Lill fame - when I met
lot of other unusual people.
Diamond Lill was an operator in a carnival
and in her teeth she had two diamonds - above and one below so that she
could smile as she did the loop the loop on a bicycle and hoped that she
was sober to keep on the track.
I always remember when they - Dr. Frost
who was in charge said "Why hello - when did you - how long you've been
back?" and she says, "Why doctor - why you know - I haven't been out yet."
This was the kind of stories we would hear.
Then we found out if somebody got into a mess that they were more afraid
than we were so we went on and enjoyed it and that's when I made a
reputation because the waiter who was a prisoner leaned over my shoulder
one night and wanted to know if I had any good cathartics.
I said, "Yes"
and rolled him off a half dozen of c.c. pills asked if he knew how to
take them and he said, "Yeah" so I went on back to quarters.
The next day
I didn't have anybody waiting on me as a waiter and the day after I didn't
have anybody waiting on me as a waiter but on the third day when I sat
down in my chair I noticed that I was taken care of when the chief wasn't
andover my shoulder came a faint whisper saying "You sure do handle powerful
drugs, sir.
•
II
Buffalo - That's the place where I was supposed to learn medicine.
guess I did.
I
Leastwise I'm still studying it to find out if I didn't.
It's hard to understand the study of medicine.
My sidekick the first one
had been a chemist in Canada got chased down by the police so on and so
forth so he taught me chemistry and I was supposed to teach him well I
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
guess the rest of the stuff.
Page
16
Another chap took the anatomy.
I took
physiology, pharmacology and that's the way we divided up our work so we
all had the chance to pile in as much as we wanted to and learn from
each other.
My class in medicine started out as nineteen.
We lost a
bunch and brought a bunch up from Fordham University our sophomore
year and then we stayed about the same and only lost one making it 25
instead of 26 our senior year but then the fight came for internships
and what an interesting story it was.
They wanted me to go to the
Evertt Marme Memorial in Buffalo and I said "No, I wanted the General
and if I couldn't have The General, I was going down to Blackley in
Philadelphia of course I didn't know anybody in Blackley - I never did
get there - I never saw the inside of the place but Dr. Ryman from our
class from the class ahead of me went down - Tape II
They gave me a royal ride also on internship because they handed me a
faternity pin when I was already wearing a faternity pin and asked me if
I had lost that in the nurses home and would I please tell them which
room it belonged in for sarcasim.
Oh the full money that we were to recieve
for one year of work starting at about 8: 30 or 8 o'clock every morning
and maybe getting one or two evenings after seven out but otherwise know
ing that we were on call all night long was a very valuable swaping
proposition.
We got three suits of white clothes.
I don't imagine they
would bewould be worth something today.
I think they were linen but in
those days we didn't think much of them.
No socks, no underware - we
had to find that from someplace else and four meal - three meals and a
lunch and we went on pretty well living but it was damned embarrising.
You didn't have any money to spend.
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
17
You didn't have any cigars unless you inherited them or somebody gave
them to you.
Cigaretts were out of question and the nurses got more money
than we did but it was fun.
I always remember that at 10 o'clock at
night they came around with lunch usually big pieces of chocolate cake
and after Mary Storm the night superintendent had gotten in wrong the
second time we posted ourselves in very advantageous positions and when
we saw her coming somebody yelled and we all ran out in the hall looking
back - looking the other way and turn around suddenly and we actually hit
her broadside with no less than nine out of the 12 pieces of chocolate
cake.
Nice treatment for a supervising nurse.
I got the blame for the
whole thing and rightly so.
Then we had to have some parties.
Course we were learning a lot and at
the parties we took yes we took the big machine TV - we took it upstairs
to the private operating room and we had a dance and a lovely concert and
a lovely time.
We pushed the thing out on the roof to hid it and the
only thing they got mad at was they were afraid we were trying to start
a fire to roast some hot dogs on the roof and they couldn't see the sense
that we could stake the fire out.
Then I got caught riding down the aisle
with so and so on my shoulder when I walked into Mary Storm the night
supertendent of course the fact that we had stolen the liquor from the
training school office the day before didn't make any difference.
She
wanted to talk to the girl so I put her down in front of her and let her
talk.
When I heard she was sending the girl home the next day I went to
the training school office and said "Dant blame the girl blame me - she n�d
nothing to do she was just sitting on my shoulder."
So, it was fun.
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
18
The next year - my second year I went out to Marme Memorial and what a
glorious time I had.
I was supposed to have three months of contagion,
three months of TB and six months of medicine especially cardiology.
What did I end up with?
I ended up with one month added on of veneral diseases.
I ended up with two months off from contiagous diseases.
I ended up with
particular care on pediatrics which is a whole lot of kids and I ended
up with most of the rest of my time on cardiology and doing it all oh yes
one month I was in Boston.
It was a lot of fun but you never knew what
was gonna happen to you the next day and then I finished and the big scramble
came.
Dr. Green said I was getting hospitalized.
I was having too good
a time in hospitals and time I got out and earned a living.
The rest of
them didn't dare disagree with him because he was the chief so I did and
the first thing I knew I was running a sanitarium in Dansville that belong
ed to doctors.
That was when they looked at me and said that anybody
could vault over the cushions and seats and chairs and couches in a
fashionable place or turn summersaults over them certainly couldn't know
medicine.
Of course I lost those patients but I made up for it and travel
I did back and forth all around and finally I came back to Binghamton.
Thats when I had my big surprises even my father seemed to think it was
time I went to work and mother couldn't understand why I took two weeks
of sitting on the hills around the town thinking figuring out what I
uanted to do and how I wanted to do it and how I was going to do this
and how I was going to do that.
Oak St.
I started to set up an office on 104
I well remember to this day.
My mother decided that a in as
much as they had helped educate me and do things for me that I was going
to supply her with ammusements for the rest of her life because she was
going to sit and watch me work of course that didn't work.
She got mad
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
19
at me because I tried.
Then Harry came down from Buffalo tried to give me a check for $50,000
to set up the kind of an office I wanted.
I could easily have spent the
money but I didn't think I should because after all so far all I had
recieved from running the sanitarium was a couple of three four blank
checks asking me to please put my amount.
They were all signed down
and tell them how much I wanted for my work.
Nobody ever raised any
questions about it and I went over the stuff in the kitchen every day to
see if there was anything better I could eat.
Didn't do much good
though cause Dr. Goodell's wife was with me as superintendent or some
thing and then W. George left me and the fellow that come in his place
was supposed to be trained as a hotel man happened to be a Christian
Scientist and I've heard that I had the ability to drive anybody nuts
but the next day when I watched him plunge from a six story building
down onto the ground and splatter around the floor I wasn't too happy.
I hated to think it was my fault.
It really wasn't but it's something
I'll never forget by the fact in that time I had an all - all american
swimming instructor.
She didn't like me and I didn't care very much
for her but I had one and I had a staff that was quite remarkable.
The old place had established the Boulaire Baths.
I had a training school
office of about twelve and I was supposed to teach physiotherapy massage
and the various things I don't know - I think it was just something to
keep me from being lonesome but then I went on home just because they
were unkind enough to try to move my folks up to the sanitarium and give
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
20
them private quarters just to be with me.
")nJ (d/
Now we ready to start the practice of medicine,
When you start to
think about it I remember the first thing I did was to talk to the man
at Norwich Pharmacal and he came up and he said, "Well you'll need a lot
of this and a lot of that and a lot of this and a lot of that."
said, "I've got a wife that's sick.
He
I want you to take care of her."
And I did and we both fared pretty good.
I fared better than he did.
His wife died and I still found some medicine from there the other day
when I shut the place up and my office died.
Then I became facinated in studying the various things that happened.
never did find out where I got all the degrees I got after my name.
I
I
know there two others I can't even think of but somebody told me if you got
enough of the alphabet dearanged never had to know any of it because you'd
say, "Yeah I think so and that would be more important than trying to be
smart.
Yes I've spent a lot of time hanging around Rochester trying to
learn somethin and even when I was out in the west out to Ann
Arbor and
when the man that was supposed to have this nice course in electrocardo
graphy looked at me and said, "What the hell do you want to take it for
you know more about it than I do now?"
I didn't agree with him or it
made me feel awful good to hear him say it.
Money - they tell me I've made a lot of it, lost a lot of it.
I think
the funniest thing was in World War II er World War I when I got back from
World War I Uncle Sam wrote me a letter and said, "We don't think you're
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
P�ge
21
able to afford to put as much of your money into insurance as you are
doing."
I never argued with them.
I think he was right but the
funny part is that insurance has all disappeared and then the other
batch that I had that's disappeared so maybe someday somebody will
find a way to have me put away insurance as they say I can't now.
Nobody ever had more fun in medicine than I did.
any harder.
It's not a plaything.
Nobody ever worked
It's a real honest to God tough
job but the satisfaction of knowing that you're doing something for
other people to help them is the greatest satisfaction in the world.
Yes, here in town I had the cardiology at the Binghamton General Hospital.
I was on cardiology at Lourdes.
man at Wilson and at the General.
I was offered the job of laboratory
I was a cardiologist at Hancock but
the fun was in trying to diagnose and make up the things when nobody else
knew what to do and how to do it.
What you did for the cases was easy
but trying to understand them was difficult.
I don't know if I had it
to do over again I thinkI propably do the same damn fool thing.
Thank you.
Uh, by the way I have had a couple things that have kept me busy one of
them for the last nineteen years.
I took care of the blind for the Lipn's
Club yeah for the club (Lion's Club) - Lion's Club or rather I took care
of Mrs. DeWitt because I started back in the beginning when she lived
downstairs under me in my home.
Then we had a disagreement not Mrs. DeWitt
but I and the Lion's Club so I disappeared and after that out of a clear
sky after having spent sometime in the Masons and gotten up into the Shrine
back around in 1928 I was suddenly got told that I was no longer Medical
Director but I was in charge of the Charities and what a surprise that was
for me that mean't that I had to hunt up the kids that might be damaged
by burns and believe it or not one of the hospitals that I represent is
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page 22
the only hospital in the world that ever brought back a child 91% burned.
The rest of them think they're damn lucky if they can bring back 50 or
35%.
I've made many trips to Boston and to some of the other hospitals
and I've had them all do work for me on the burn kids and then before
that we had 19 orthopedic hospitals.
That didn't seem enough to me anyway
no matter what I found that was wrong I usually was able to decide it
was orthopedic and you'd be surprised how much my training taught me to
make the other fellow think twice.
I haven't made as many trips this
year but a little while ago I kept track of them.
I think I've gotten
stuck in the snow down around Boston at least six times.
I think I've
been down through over the Hudson when it was frozen solid four or five
times and I get to the clinic once a year and most people can't understand
why my hobby is helping to spend forty-nine million dollars a year and
I don't think it keeps me busy.
I'm willing to have some help but the
thing that interests me is that very few people understand that this
isn't just a patch me up stuff.
This is a thing of building people kids
and trying to make them live happy and enjoy things.
Sure it takes longeer
than it does if you're going to just give them a kick up and let them
startle them but I think it's the greatest charity in the world.
What
do you think about it?
(Well, I think it's remarkable what you've done and I think you oughta
mention thdt you have several awards for your work and that you were man
of the year in 1973 - was it?)
All right if it will make you any happier.
They're urging me to talk about awards.
- (Well you deserve some credit.)
I don't know whether I told you
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
23
I have 21 - 22 letters dearanged after n.,y name.
It isn't enough to make
an alphabet but some of the letters I've got so many of I don't know
what to do with.
The other thing they ked me about is brass plaques.
Yes, I've got a bunch of them.
When you're young they're important,
when your old you wonder if you're worth it.
I've yes this last year
I received the award from the American Legion - Man of the Year then
found out that on 73 I had the Shriner of the Year from Kalurah then I
got a whole lot more of them but the thing I think you ought to get is to
come along and see the fun and find out how much fun work is when you do
it right.
(Well thank you very much Dr. Benson.
It's been very enjoyable talking
with you.)
Well now there is a lot more if you want it, so if you get stuck just
call me.
(Fine)
And we 1 11 try and see if their because I don't know a
for instance somebody might get somewheres like taking a film like this why I enjoyed being a doctor - (That's right.)
Why I don't want to be a lawyer do you see what I mean.
And I think you might get further ahead with such ideas.
(Right)
Put down a list
and then half a dozen of us go through what we can add or take off of it
on each one and then go ahead and get it dictated by someone that you
can pick out as being the person that will do the best job because that's
what you gotta do.
(Well certainly if I know someone in trouble your the man to call
Dr. Benson.
Thank you again.)
�Dr. Carl S. Benson
Page
24
Your entirely welcome.
This is Susan Dobandi interviewer and I have been talking with Dr.
Carl S. Benson who lives at 109 Murray St., Binghamton, N. Y.
The date is June 8, 1978
�
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/ff3332aa443b300f60d6fcd8d50afc2c.mp3
5c2eee48a3c8c97326c1de601cab050d
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/42607e87dfe531aec07be626b10d3ffc.mp3
04e0be1c08a8c0c397d5569e9040fd4c
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Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
An account of the resource
The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
Identifier
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
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Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
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Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Benson, Carl S.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Dobandi, Susan
Date of Interview
1978-06-08
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Subject LCSH
Benson, Carl S. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Colgate University; World War, 1939-1945; American Legion; Binghamton General Hospital; Lourdes Hospital; Hancock Hospital; Shriners; Lions Club International
Streaming Audio
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55822">Interview with Dr. Carl S. Benson</a>
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<p><b>Broome County Oral History Project</b></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Dr. Carl S. Benson</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 8 June 1978</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Dr. Benson, could we start this interview by having you tell us where you were born, something about your parents, and any of your recollections of your childhood?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: That's easy. I was born on 5 King Ave., between Walnut and, ah, and it's on the west side. It's between, ah, Walnut and St. John. My mother and father came from Sweden—my mother from the north of Sweden and my father from the south of Sweden. Mother talked very much about having come from the place where the King used to spend his summers out in the open, and my grandfather, I realize now, was the man that insulated and fortified the iron mines of Sweden so that if anybody attempted to take over, they merely blew up the bridges and they had so much trouble getting the iron ore out that they never did.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">They met here in Binghamton, my father being from the south of Sweden and my mother from the north. I always kidded mother about stealing her sister’s girl—boyfriend, but they had a rather happy life together ’til mother overdid and showed herself to me as a medical problem, which I had a lot of fun solving.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">As for me, I went to St. John Ave. School. I had only one sister, Ruth, who was five years older than I was and followed the same trail, and the thing I think you would enjoy the most was that I was constantly reminded that I wasn't supposed to be relying on somebody else, I was supposed to dig it out for myself and I was supposed to keep going no matter what happened. My father was a tailor, so-called merchant tailor at a time when there wasn't any such things as ready-made clothes, and part of the fun was that I, in the early grades in school, wore tailor-made clothes, and often got in trouble with the teachers because they couldn't understand why the clothes I had on made so much noise with their corduroy knees banging each other, and actually asked me if I didn't have any other clothes I could wear to school. Today I'd like to have such good clothes back.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Work—I can remember the very funny things that happened, there was the time somebody stole our Thanksgiving dinner that we had carelessly put on top of the refrigerator, on top—on the back porch at 5 King Ave. We didn't get much to eat that day. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of time trying to find it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">One of the stories that might interest you was that the man on the corner, who was a horse tailor, got after me to prove that he knew more about the things than I did and my father did, and said of course we grew horses and horses’ barns. He said, didn't I realize if I planted a cigar box and watered it regularly every day, in about six weeks it ought to come up and show me a horse barn that I could be proud of? So I tried it, and at the end of four weeks he told me, didn't I know the top from the bottom? So I dug it up and turned it over, and it wasn't ’til the six weeks were well up that—he never admitted, just said I got the wrong kind of cigar box. You see these queer things, for instance his office—his, where he fixed leather and did all this stuff was on State Street behind Sissons, and in front of it was the old canal. My father lives on—worked on the other side in the Bosket Block, and that was the way life was treated. They were both equal—now do we get a rest?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">I started school at St. John Ave. School, and I can still see our kindergarten and our first grade where Bill and Ed Keeler and some of the—the rest of the boys were sure that if they took their hands and folded them around the side ways, they could see what was going on the room and it was just as good as having them sit, as well as having them sit on the edge of the stage—of the desk. One of the boys, Doff Kane, just followed one of the girls out of the kindergarten and it wasn't ’til two days later that we found out that he had gone on, and supposed to have been promoted anyway because he was older than the rest of us. Third grade was fine ’cause of the exercises, we got up on the desks. We gathered up books as being bricks, stones, and we went through all the stories of the </span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Iliad</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;">, the Romans and their troubles, and threw the books on the floor just with a grand abandon that made it a great life. We really enjoyed Mrs. Tillapough's teachings. I could go on, teach and tell you about each of the other kids, each of the other teachers just as well, of course. Miss Hunt was the principal but we never had any trouble with her, we didn't know enough to. She kept us busy and we kept her busy and that's all that was necessary. ’Course, we had her nephew in the class with us. Maybe that helped us stay out of trouble.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">From the sixth grade we moved over to Laurel Ave. under old Professor Johnson for our seventh—seventh grade, and that was when I used to ride a bicycle across to school. It was quite a ways down from where we were over to Laurel Ave. But that was when we had all the fun, nobody knew what to do, nobody cared. Then we went on to high school. We had the eighth, ninth and tenth, eleventh and twelfth over in high school. No, not the high school you people know about, but in the same place until we wore the building out, or they thought we did or said we wouldn't get a new one if they didn't stop using it, and then I remember when they decided to close it up. They put the letters, the colors and the letters of the class on the school. We got up on the fourth floor on the fire hatches, handed two-by-fours to throw down if the other class got in our way or started to come after us. Instead one of the boys got the fire hoses out of the Front Street fire department, and we had a grand time watching them walk up and chop those hoses to stop the water so they could get at us.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Now I got to get back to teaching at our school. It seems to me that I must have been along about the fourth or fifth grade when I started to, to doing some work on the outside. Maybe it was younger, but I was delivering flowers for Oshier up on 148 Court Street. If it was a long shag I got 10¢ for it. If it was a short shag I got 5¢, and he always used to kid me on how much money I took down at the end of the week for a guy that was just riding around on a bicycle. I would almost get, I think, on the average of five dollars, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, depending on how business was. Then he disappeared and I got shipped down to Graham. Graham's Florist Shop was in Wally Webster’s Drug Store, which was 45 Court Street, next door to the corner of Walnut—uh, uh, Washington Street and Court. Wally said the smart thing to do is to buy buildings next to the corners or where, if anybody was going to increase the size of their place, they'd have to take your place in—in that way you'd make money on any enlargement of the town without having too much invested—that was where I learned that if you stole old-time tombstones and you poured a little acid on them, that’d make pretty good soda, and that's what you gave people in place of soda on their ice cream. Ice cream was worth 10¢ or sometimes 5¢, sometimes less. Those were in the days when we used to see these special men come through. The automobile stage was just starting to grow, and there was one man that had a small two-seated or one-seated buggy but he had his wheels on, his pulling wheels on backwards, and therefore the horse was behind you and pushed you forward, and he took—took that, I imagine he'd go pretty fast too, but he was just advertising a new kind of ice cream or a new kind of soft drink. Made quite something to work with.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then, I got interested in other work. The morning newspaper came along, ’course the business belonged to Carl Legg's father, and then he sold it and that brought it out in the open. When I used to go to dances in high school I'd used to have to get up before two o'clock, and we didn't get home much before that, in order to get over and roll the singles for the old morning paper. I'd roll about fifty of those and then lay down on the bags—the mail bags, then get up and carry the longest route up to the top of Mount Prospect and into the old tavern up Front Street next to Prospect Street. That's where they give you the description of the real early things that happened here in Binghamton.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">My father and I used to argue a lot about Court Street bridges, boats, and spent a good many nice days in the summer pushing a rowboat up and down the Chenango River, borrowing it from Mr. Ritz, or renting it, rather, from Mr. Ritz at the corner of Laurel Ave. and the river. You never knew just what you were going to get into. We had one island that we called Violet Island. We had another island that was a little bit tough to get at, but you went out where the Fourth Ward sewer came in. You always got a little bit dirty. You went out, rode up, then down, and landed on an island. Dad and I always called it our island. Then we had to hunt up the other way. There was always something to think about. If you went up the Chenango, and I've tried and took my canoe, later, up to Port Dick and all the way to Lilly Lake and right up the river, right back down. I left it in Port Dick for a whole summer. I had a lot of fun. We'd sneak around behind a barn, loosed up underneath the barn, drop it into the water, then climb in, then go around the landing to show that we were there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">It's a wonderful thing and always we worried about the Chenango River, and then we remembered that there was an old man named Mr. Whittemore that got my interest first in steamboats, because he told me about the steamboat that used to come up the Chenango River—Susquehanna River and Chenango River from Owego every spring, did it for a number of years and the people came up and went down, but in my early days we usually caught the train at about eight o'clock on Saturday night, went down to Owego and then took the boat up as far as Ouaquaga, as Hiawatha Island, or on up further to the endings in Hickory Grove. That was a beautiful stretch in those days. I've heard them talk about it a good many times before my time, but I was too busy working to pay much attention to riding around in it. Then I remembered what Dad had told me about Court Street bridge. It seems that the boats used to come up and stop against those big trees that used to be back of McDevitt’s, so I had to find out about it. Find out what it was, what was happening, and why the end of it there was so little, not big enough, and I did, I stuck my neck in it. Before the bridge was finished or built, there was a ferry that used to come across there, and that tied up just above where the bridge came in and came across the river, almost straight, and stopped about where Main Street or Court Street is, and you could load and unload to catch the bridge, er, to catch the ferry. The next thing that happened was that they commenced to fuss about wanting to do something, and it was because they didn't like the way in which things were done. I know my Dad at that time said he had a chance to buy the old farm that ran all the way down to about where the Lourdes Hospital is and up as far as Leroy Street and down to the river and down to the junction and back up to about Leroy Street. Can't remember the name of the farm right now, but Dad was very seriously interested in buying it and he was going to get that land for $2,000. The people that sold it went over to Quaker Lake. They had a place over there too but I don't remember the name.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then we had to worry about why all these strange things were set up around Main Street, and when I checked up, Sam Wear said his father had a bar there for years, in fact, he said there were five bars between Front Street and the Chenango River. Maybe that accounts for their going after the law, because I understand that's when they got to work—that's when they got to work and built the church at Wal—at, ah, Front Street and Main Street. It took me a long time to figure it out, then I found the ruling, any territory with a church in it cannot have a saloon or a bar within 125 feet of the front door of the church—now that old rule has been in for a long time and </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">probably accounts for why four of the five things disappeared, unless somebody has forgotten the laws. The thing that counts in remembrance is that when we came to building the Sheraton, the Ramada, and the rest of the new hotels that were wanted to be near the water just across the bridge, they all of a sudden stopped and moved them a block away. I think I know the reason, because I looked up some of the deeds on lower Main Street and over on Front Street, and they all contained this record that no building can be put across south of Main and Front—er, Court Street, unless it's far enough away and unless there is an opening through it left down to the river so that people can take their animals to the ford and across the river. That's why you'll find that big mark in the bottom of the Treadway building. I remember also that we built a very lovely little park on the end of Wall Street, and Wall Street was connected with this other stuff but people all forgot it and it disappeared. I wonder how many people remember its name. It was Carmen Park, and while I'm speaking about parks, we had one over on the south side wherein there was a tree for every man killed in World War II and a nameplate on </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">it, but I was over there the other day, and God, if we can go through big wars like World War II with no more losses than that, we better stick up in the first ranks, because I assure you I couldn't find enough trees or enough plaques to justify our even having been considered as being in World War II.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Now I think we ought to look up and see whether this new business about extending the high school and shutting off the ford, with kids coming from high school and with a parking lot and with some other things like that, can be done any better and any more legally than shutting it off for hotels and places to eat, particularly when the city is kinda short of money. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">It was during these times when I was wandering around town that we all got wrapped up in cigar bands, and we used to argue as to whether it was smarter to stop in the cigar factories—which were on Wall Street, Water Street, State Street was solid from Court to Henry—and see if we couldn't buy, beg, or steal a few cigar bands that were out of the ordinary so we could make money. As a matter of fact, there was a lot of them that were so out of the ordinary that if you found the owner and he had a smile on his face, he would give you half a dozen and then your collection would be way, way above your friends. We had as many as 56 cigar factories around here, then they commenced to get into the factory kind where it wasn't made by hand, it was made by machinery, and the last one I remember being here into this part of the country was the General Cigar factory down on Court Street—er, Main Street, down near Johnson City—that worked for a few years. The problem was that we got much poorer tobacco for a while. If you've traveled up through Canada and seen the various shades of tobacco and seen the various kinds, you realize that it's not a bad crop to grow. It's quite nice, and if you've hunted around the old barns down below Owego and seen the openings in the sides of the barns where they drain and let the tobacco leaves dry, you will quickly get established in your own mind what a handy comfortable thing it is, but it requires a lot of work and we had just the people to roll them and not the people to grow them—maybe that’s why we lost it and then we had to get, so many of our women folks had to get tied up in cigarettes and anxious about cigarettes and they could buy them all rolled so they didn't look different, a lot cheaper, or rather a lot more expensively than we could cigars.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">High school and schools in Binghamton, it seems funny to talk about them. There was a little girl named Alice VanMoon, and she beat me by half a point when we went up to St. John, er, to Laurel Ave., and on down into high school. I know I could have caught her, but she went and moved away. Oh, so I had to go on, and I graduated as Valedictorian, I think, when I graduated from high school. It was a big problem to remember because I was working all the time on the side, and despite the fact that I worked from 2 o'clock in the morning up ’til school time. I worked after school until 7 or 8 o'clock at night, I thought I was pretty darn lucky when I got in twelve-thirteen dollars a week—as an adult, maybe after I got into college, I realized more about it. I had $285.00 in my pocket when I left for college. If I hadn't been fortunate enough to find some friends up there who knew where the cheap places to eat were—because I remember the chap that went with me, he was a teacher afterwards at Cornell. We paid $1.60 apiece for two rooms—one to study in and one to sleep in—and around the corner we paid $4, and then $4.50, and then $4.60, and then $4.90, for a place to have our three meals a day in comfort. Of course it was the crowd that was there that made it interesting because many of them were inclined to head for the ministry, and many long were the sermons that got preached at us while we sat there waiting to see what was going to happen, but if anybody was hungry they were taken care of, and you could buy a roast beef sandwich for 10¢. You could buy—we were lucky from Binghamton. We could go over to the Candy Kitchen and Jimmy the Greek would say, "I remember you." We'd say, "Yes, and we’re thirsty." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">"Wait a minute," and he'd give us an ice cream so we wouldn't feel too bad about it, and we appreciated his kindness. Money wasn't essential. Fifteen cents would take you to the movies. You could always borrow from somebody if you needed to. There wasn't enough girls, but what you had was a good alibi that there wasn't any girls to get so you didn't have one, and I think maybe that's the thing that made life worthwhile, because it certainly made us study a lot more than we would have otherwise. Then we would go on, and I still remember even at my decrepit old age that my first year in Colgate, from the time I left in September to go ’til I came back in June, having finished one year, cost me $496.16. I think maybe that's a record, because I remember my last year in medicine cost me over $1100 or pretty damn close, and I know that's not counting the fact that I worked in the fraternity house and I took care of the animals—the research animals for both physiology, biology. That's why I had to wear a mustache, because one of them got mad and caught me on the upper chin, er, upper lip, and it was a lot better having it covered by hair than not having it covered at all.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">There are many stories I could tell you about the faculty of Colgate. It was one of the grandest bunch of men I ever knew despite the fact there were a lot of wonderful queer characters. There was Johnny Green, who always bobbed around at us, flashed his eyes back an’ forth and said that if he exercised his eyes enough, that he wouldn't have to wear glasses, and then he had a man who was his assistant, very big dignified fat man that always put his paws down in front of you as though he was going to bite you, Spencer, but he wouldn't. He'd scare the hell out of you. Then I could go on and talk about the rest. My particular sidekick in these days was Bill Turner, six foot tall, a big bass voice, a bachelor. He took care of his mother and sister and always acted as though something was going to push him around into something. He was so afraid that people would misunderstand him, get him into trouble. He even came to me once and said, "I'm going to quit," and I said, "Well, let me look things over a bit for you." And I says, "No, you're not going to quit. You're going to work a little harder than you have worked and you're gonna do it more this way and you aren't gonna get mixed up with so many people." And when he came to me five years later and said, "I'm gonna quit," I said, "Yep, you’re gonna quit now, but not before. You hadn't finished your job." It's a wonderful feeling to be able to say I helped a professor as much as they helped me, but I didn't, because he and his mother and his sister fed me Sunday night’s dinner for a good many years. God knows I couldn't sing, I couldn't do anything else, but I traveled with the Glee Club with the sublime feeling that I didn't have to worry because he told me, "Make your mouth go big, smile good, and for God's sakes, if anybody’s out of tune, shut up.”</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Now let’s stop a minute. It seems that along about my sophomore year in Colgate I got on the pan, and I never blamed them. I suddenly decided, figuring closely that they were going to let me have my degree in three years, why couldn't I do three years’ work in two and a half—get the degree? And to go on, I made the mistake that so many young fellows do, and old fellows maybe, of thinking that rubber stamping something and throwing it over your shoulder makes it get in your head. It doesn't, and I remember when Dr. McGregory and Dr. Bryant and Cookie Cutter and a few of the others, Brigham, looked at me point blank when I said I wanted to get through in three years, and they argued that it wasn't for my benefit to get through in three years—I'd do better if I stayed four—and I decided that eating those last year was kind of important and much more important than just getting through, so when Hog said that he wouldn't allow for it and he was objecting to it, I said, "OK, Dr. McGregory, just for that, I'll major in your subjects and give you every opportunity to flunk me you can get." He tried to talk me out of taking a couple of subjects instead. But I got through in three years, and they were probably the happiest three years I have ever spent, because Colgate is a beautiful, wonderful institution. I'm glad Craig went there.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Afterwards I was tempted or persuaded and almost sure that I was going to go to Cornell in order to get my medicine, but I looked around and I saw that Cornell started a class at Ithaca and a class in New York, and at the end of the year without saying anything you just became half out and half as big as you were before, so I didn't think that was very good, and then Sukie Higgerman said I was nuts. And I started for Buffalo where John, Dr. John Lappious, had helped me get registered. Well, I arrived out there on the train, then went up the street to High Street. I went in, they were very nice to me but I still don't know who saw me—who had anything to do about it, what happened to me, and I think maybe it was the fact that my class, instead of being seventy-six, succeeded in rounding up nineteen for our first year. So, you see, if they do raise the requirements there is a very definite reason for it. Then I had to snoop around and see if I could get a job. Didn't get anywheres on that ’til somethin’ happened down in the so-called jail and the Erie County Penitentiary because of the flu, because of the—because of the, and in came the flu—a most gorgeous mess. So, I had to eat and live, so John took me down to the penitentiary, and they looked at me and took off my soft hat—my, ah, cap, insisted I wear a soft hat—and I was fully signed in as a doctor in the Erie County Penitentiary, which became famous afterwards—after having had three weeks of medicine. Well the first thing I did was told I oughta clean up the drug room—so I started to, and got some nice little country boy. Didn't know why he was in jail, but he did the cleaning with me and helped me, and he'd light my cigars and gave me his tobacco. God, it was awful—couldn't touch it—but he was very proud of being an associate of mine. That was when I had my funny time, when I met the Diamond Lill fame—when I met a lot of other unusual people. Diamond Lill was an operator in a carnival, </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">and in her teeth she had two diamonds—above and one below, so that she could smile as she did the loop the loop on a bicycle and hoped that she was sober to keep on the track. I always remember when they—Dr. Frost, who was in charge, said, "Why hello—when did you—how long you've been back?" and she says, "Why, Doctor—why, you know—I haven't been out yet." This was the kind of stories we would hear.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then we found out if somebody got into a mess that they were more afraid than we were, so we went on and enjoyed it, and that's when I made a reputation, because the waiter, who was a prisoner, leaned over my shoulder one night and wanted to know if I had any good cathartics. I said, "Yes," and rolled him off a half dozen of C.C. pills, asked if he knew how to take them and he said, "Yeah," so I went on back to quarters. The next day I didn't have anybody waiting on me as a waiter, and the day after I didn't have anybody waiting on me as a waiter, but on the third day, when I sat down in my chair, I noticed that I was taken care of when the chief wasn't, </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">and over my shoulder came a faint whisper saying, "You sure do handle powerful drugs, sir.”</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Buffalo—that's the place where I was supposed to learn medicine. I guess I did. Leastwise I'm still studying it to find out if I didn't. It's hard to understand the study of medicine. My sidekick, the first one, had been a chemist in Canada, got chased down by the police, so on and so </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">forth, so he taught me chemistry and I was supposed to teach him, well, I guess the rest of the stuff. Another chap took the anatomy. I took physiology, pharmacology, and that's the way we divided up our work, so we all had the chance to pile in as much as we wanted to and learn from </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">each other. My class in medicine started out as nineteen. We lost a bunch and brought a bunch up from Fordham University our sophomore year, and then we stayed about the same and only lost one, making it twenty-five instead of twenty-six our senior year, but then the fight came for internships, and what an interesting story it was. They wanted me to go to the Edward Meyer Memorial [Hospital] in Buffalo and I said "No.” I wanted the General, and if I couldn't have The General, I was going down to Blockley in Philadelphia—of course I didn't know anybody in Blockley—I never did get there—I never saw the inside of the place, but Dr. Ryman from our class, from the class ahead of me, went down.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">[End of Tape I]</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">[Tape II]</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: They gave me a royal ride also on internship, because they handed me a fraternity pin when I was already wearing a fraternity pin and asked me if I had lost that in the nurses’ home and would I please tell them which room it belonged in, for sarcasm. Oh, the full money that we were to receive for one year of work, starting at about 8:30 or 8 o'clock every morning </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">and maybe getting one or two evenings after seven out, but otherwise knowing that we were on call all night long, was a very valuable swapping proposition. We got three suits of white clothes. I don't imagine they would be, would be worth something today. I think they were linen, but in those days we didn't think much of them. No socks, no underwear—we had to find that from someplace else—and four meal—three meals and a lunch, and we went on pretty well living but it was damned embarrassing. You didn't have any money to spend.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">You didn't have any cigars unless you inherited them or somebody gave them to you. Cigarettes were out of question and the nurses got more money than we did, but it was fun. I always remember that at 10 o'clock at night they came around with lunch, usually big pieces of chocolate cake, and after Mary Storm, the night superintendent, had gotten in wrong, the second time we posted ourselves in very advantageous positions, and when we saw her coming, somebody yelled and we all ran out in the hall looking back—looking the other way—and turn around suddenly, and we actually hit her broadside with no less than nine out of the twelve pieces of chocolate cake. Nice treatment for a supervising nurse. I got the blame for the whole thing and rightly so.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then we had to have some parties. ’Course we were learning a lot, and at the parties we took, yes, we took the big machine TV—we took it upstairs to the private operating room and we had a dance and a lovely concert and a lovely time. We pushed the thing out on the roof to hide it, and the only thing they got mad at was, they were afraid we were trying to start a fire to roast some hot dogs on the roof and they couldn't see the sense that we could stake the fire out. Then I got caught riding down the aisle with so and so on my shoulder when I walked into Mary Storm, the night superintendent—of course the fact that we had stolen the liquor from the training school office the day before didn't make any difference. She wanted to talk to the girl, so I put her down in front of her and let her talk. When I heard she was sending the girl home the next day, I went to the training school office and said, “Don’t blame the girl, blame me—she had nothing to do, she was just sitting on my shoulder.” So, it was fun.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">The next year—my second year I went out to Meyer Memorial, and what a glorious time I had. I was supposed to have three months of contagion, three months of TB, and six months of medicine, especially cardiology. What did I end up with? I ended up with one month added on, of venereal diseases. I ended up with two months off from contagious diseases. I ended up with particular care on pediatrics, which is a whole lot of kids, and I ended up with most of the rest of my time on cardiology and doing it all, oh, yes, one month I was in Boston. It was a lot of fun but you never knew what was gonna happen to you the next day, and then I finished and the big scramble came. Dr. Green said I was getting hospitalized. I was having too good a time in hospitals, and time I got out and earned a living. The rest of them didn't dare disagree with him because he was the chief, so I did, and the first thing I knew, I was running a sanitarium in Dansville that belonged to doctors. That was when they looked at me and said that anybody </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">[who] could vault over the cushions and seats and chairs and couches in a fashionable place, or turn somersaults over them, certainly couldn't know medicine. Of course I lost those patients, but I made up for it, and travel I did, back and forth, all around, and finally I came back to Binghamton. That’s when I had my big surprises—even my father seemed to think it was time I went to work, and Mother couldn't understand why I took two weeks of sitting on the hills around the town thinking, figuring out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it and how I was going to do this and how I was going to do that. I started to set up an office on 104 Oak Street, I well remember to this day. My mother decided that, ah, in as much as they had helped educate me and do things for me, that I was going to supply her with amusements for the rest of her life because she was going to sit and watch me work—of course, that didn't work. She got mad at me because I tried.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then Harry came down from Buffalo, tried to give me a check for $50,000 to set up the kind of an office I wanted. I could easily have spent the money but I didn't think I should, because after all, so far all I had received from running the sanitarium was a couple of, three, four blank checks asking me to please put my amount—they were all signed down—and tell them how much I wanted for my work. Nobody ever raised any questions about it and I went over the stuff in the kitchen every day to see if there was anything better I could eat. Didn't do much good, though, ’cause Dr. Goodell's wife was with me as superintendent or something, and then W. George left me and the fellow that come in his place [who] was supposed to be trained as a hotel man happened to be a Christian Scientist, and I've heard that I had the ability to drive anybody nuts, but the next day, when I watched him plunge from a six-story building down onto the ground and splatter around the floor, I wasn't too happy. I hated to think it was my fault. It really wasn't, but it's something I'll never forget by the fact in that time I had an all—all-American swimming instructor. She didn't like me and I didn't care very much for her, but I had one, and I had a staff that was quite remarkable. The old place had established the Boulaire Baths. I had a training school office of about twelve, and I was supposed to teach physiotherapy massage and the various things, I don't know—I think it was just something to keep me from being lonesome, but then I went on home just because they were unkind enough to try to move my folks up to the sanitarium and give them private quarters just to be with me.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Now we ready to start the practice of medicine. My God, when you start to think about it, I remember the first thing I did was to talk to the man at Norwich Pharmacal, and he came up and he said, "Well you'll need a lot of this and a lot of that and a lot of this and a lot of that." He said, "I've got a wife that's sick. I want you to take care of her." And I did, and we both fared pretty good. I fared better than he did. His wife died, and I still found some medicine from there the other day when I shut the place up and my office died.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Then I became fascinated in studying the various things that happened. I never did find out where I got all the degrees I got after my name. I know there are two others I can't even think of, but somebody told me if you got enough of the alphabet dearranged, never had to know any of it because you'd say, "Yeah, I think so,” and that would be more important than trying to be smart. Yes, I've spent a lot of time hanging around Rochester trying to learn somethin’, and even when I was out in the west, out to Ann Arbor, and when the man that was supposed to have this nice course in electrocardiography looked at me and said, "What the hell do you want to take it for? You know more about it than I do now," I didn't agree with him, or it made me feel awful good to hear him say it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Money—they tell me I've made a lot of it, lost a lot of it. I think the funniest thing was in World War II—er, World War I—when I got back from World War I, Uncle Sam wrote me a letter and said, "We don't think you're able to afford to put as much of your money into insurance as you are doing." I never argued with them. I think he was right but the funny part is that insurance has all disappeared and then the other batch that I had, that's disappeared, so maybe someday somebody will find a way to have me put away insurance as they say I can't now. Nobody ever had more fun in medicine than I did. Nobody ever worked any harder. It's not a plaything. It's a real honest-to-God tough job, but the satisfaction of knowing that you're doing something for other people to help them is the greatest satisfaction in the world. Yes, here in town I had the cardiology at the Binghamton General Hospital. I was on cardiology at Lourdes. I was offered the job of laboratory man at Wilson and at the General. I was a cardiologist at Hancock, but the fun was in trying to diagnose and make up the things when nobody else knew what to do and how to do it. What you did for the cases was easy, but trying to understand them was difficult. I don't know, if I had it to do over again I think I’d probably do the same damn fool thing. Thank you.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Oh, by the way, I have had a couple things that have kept me busy, one of them for the last nineteen years. I took care of the blind for the Lions Club, yeah, for the club—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: —Lions Club—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: —Lions Club, or rather I took care of Mrs. DeWitt, because I started back in the beginning when she lived downstairs under me in my home. Then we had a disagreement, not Mrs. DeWitt, but I and the Lion's Club, so I disappeared, and after that, out of a clear sky, after having spent some time in the Masons and gotten up into the Shrine back around in 1928, I was suddenly got told that I was no longer Medical Director, but I was in charge of the Charities, and what a surprise that was for me—that meant that I had to hunt up the kids that might be damaged by burns, and believe it or not, one of the hospitals that I represent is the only hospital in the world that ever brought back a child 91% burned. The rest of them think they're damn lucky if they can bring back 50% or 35%. I've made many trips to Boston and to some of the other hospitals and I've had them all do work for me on the burn kids, and then before</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">that we had nineteen orthopedic hospitals. That didn't seem enough to me, anyway, no matter what I found that was wrong, I usually was able to decide it was orthopedic, and you'd be surprised how much my training taught me to make the other fellow think twice. I haven't made as many trips this year, but a little while ago I kept track of them. I think I've gotten stuck in the snow down around Boston at least six times. I think I've been down through over the Hudson when it was frozen solid four or five times, and I get to the clinic once a year, and most people can't understand why my hobby is helping to spend forty-nine million dollars a year and I don't think it keeps me busy. I'm willing to have some help, but the thing that interests me is that very few people understand that this isn't just, ah, patch-me-up stuff. This is a thing of building people, kids, and trying to make them live happy and enjoy things. Sure, it takes longer than it does if you're going to just give them a kick up and let them startle them, but I think it's the greatest charity in the world. What do you think about it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Well, I think it's remarkable what you've done, and I think you oughta mention that you have several awards for your work and that you were Man of the Year in 1973—was it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: All right, if it will make you any happier.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Well, you deserve some credit.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson:They're urging me to talk about awards. I don't know whether I told you, I have 21-22 letters dearranged after my name. It isn't enough to make an alphabet, but some of the letters I've got so many of I don't know what to do with. The other thing they kid me about is brass plaques. Yes, I've got a bunch of them. When you're young they're important, when you’re old you wonder if you're worth it. I've, yes, this last year I received the award from the American Legion—Man of the Year—then found out that on ‘73 I had the Shriner of the Year from Kalurah, then I got a whole lot more of them, but the thing I think you ought to get is to come along and see the fun and find out how much fun work is when you do it right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Well, thank you very much, Dr. Benson. It's been very enjoyable talking with you.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: Well, now, there is a lot more if you want it, so if you get stuck just call me.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Fine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: And we’ll try and see if they’re—because, I don't know, ah, for instance, somebody might get somewheres, like taking a film like this—why I enjoyed being a doctor—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan:That's right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: Why I don't want to be a lawyer, do you see what I mean?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: And I think you might get further ahead with such ideas. Put down a list and then half a dozen of us go through what we can add or take off of it on each one, and then go ahead and get it dictated by someone that you can pick out as being the person that will do the best job, because that's what you gotta do.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: Well, certainly if I know someone in trouble, you’re the man to call, Dr. Benson. Thank you again.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Benson: You’re entirely welcome.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I have been talking with Dr. Carl S. Benson, who lives at 109 Murray Street, Binghamton, NY. The date is June 8, 1978.</span></p>
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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Interview with Dr. Carl S. Benson
Subject
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Benson, Carl S. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Colgate University; World War, 1939-1945; American Legion; Binghamton General Hospital; Lourdes Hospital; Hancock Hospital; Shriners; Lions Club International
Description
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Dr. Carl S. Benson talks about his upbringing and education in and outside of his hometown of Binghamton, NY. He attended Binghamton Central High School, Colgate University, and studied medicine in Buffalo, NY before working at the Erie Penitentiary during WWII then moving back to Binghamton to work as a cardiologist at Binghamton General, Lourdes, and Hancock Hospital. He also discusses his charitable work.
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Binghamton University Libraries
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/mp3
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English
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Recordings 3A, 3B
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Benson, Carl E. ; Dobandi, Susan
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1978-06-08
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Broome County Oral History Project
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34:00 minutes ; 23:38 minutes
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
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Broome County -- History
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Description
An account of the resource
The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
Identifier
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2
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In copyright
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
Coverage
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1977-1978
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sargent, Clealand A.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
O'Neil, Dan
Date of Interview
1978-04-26
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56011">Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent</a>
Subject LCSH
Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination
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Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Transcription
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<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Broome County Oral History Project</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Dr. Clealand A. Sargent</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 26 April 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Doctor would you give me ah your life and experiences, working experiences in the community, starting back to when you were born and where you were born?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well I was born in Richford, Vermont. R-I-C-H-F-O-R-D, Vermont—it's right on the Canadian border. My father was took before the Customs, that's how we happened to be there. I graduated from Richford High School in 1912, June 1912 and entered the University of Vermont that fall in 1912 and I graduated in Medicine there in June, yeah in June 1918. Served my internship at the Mary Fletcher Hospital in Burlington, and ah that was during the War, I came—then I started in private practice at Orwell, Vermont. Orwell, Vermont, which is on Lake Champlain. They asked the college to send a physician there because they had lost two, so I went there and had 5 towns to cover in the practice, practice of medicine and ah I certainly enjoyed it and expected to stay there but in December in 1923, I had pneumonia and it was a very bad case with many complications and eventually from December 11 to April, I didn't do anything and then discovered I had pulmonary tuberculosis so I didn't—I had to quit private practice entirely. I received a fellowship with the Rockefeller Foundation. Now briefly, the Rockefeller Foundation was started in 1919. John D. Rockefeller gave 200 million dollars for public health service from the advice of his minister. He read the Bible and said the next time he came to Heaven—what did I do, so he told him just start out—do good with your money and that's your home. So he established the Rockefeller Foundation with 200 million dollars ah and also with that they named, they established a training station for physicians to go into preventive medicine. They built a medical school in Peking, China—they built the finest Medical College in University of Chicago and ah this fellowship I started on my birthday, January 13, 1925. I started as a fellow of the Rockefeller Foundation in Andalusia, Alabama ah my first I was there under training by men who had, doctors who had worked various stations throughout the world from the very beginning—in fact, in fact they had the United States. My first experience was with the control of malaria. For a boy born in Vermont, we didn't see very much malaria. I, we were thoroughly trained by men who very well experienced it. Ah as an illustration we started out in the morning - we were given a dose of Atabrine then we were given a thing to put on our wrist like a wristwatch but it had no bottom to it. You were supposed to catch mosquitoes—crawl under houses and what not, get mosquitos and put them under here (pointing to wristwatch) have ‘em eat.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Incubate?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Feed on your, feed on your skin to keep them alive until you get back to the laboratory because they had to determine what type of infection they had and ah after malaria experience, I was taught to control the hookworms disease and hookworm disease starts by a worm that burrows through the soles of the feet goes up into the bloodstream coughed up and swallowed and attaches itself to the intestinal tract—causes slow hemorrhage. We have taken, while I was there, we as a team—a nurse, a doctor, a nurse and a clerk and go in this school and we got feet for examination and ah if found hookworms, got permission to advance and treat these children and we have taken away as many as 2000 hookworms from one individual.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And it is a very serious affair. Well from that, the State passed, they assigned somebody to help establish school health programs in the northern part of the State of Alabama. I was sent up there with a very well trained public health nurse—Rockefeller Foundation and then there was an outbreak of diphtheria at Muscle Shoals and I was sent up to work at Florence, Tuscumbia, Columbia, Sheffield, Ford City in control of diphtheria and while I was there we let the water through the flues to start with—the electric power for the State of Alabama—it was very interesting work there. Well ah we did some roundworm control later and then I was assigned to the City of Montgomery, Alabama diphtheria control and while I was doing that, there was an outbreak of smallpox at Columbus, Ohio and I was sent to Oberlin to establish a control program for the outbreak of this smallpox and we were there about 6 weeks because after we vaccinated several thousand people ah against smallpox and things bought under control, they asked me to stay and help the Health Officer with diphtheria control program. Well being nice about it—children against diphtheria and then they asked me to go to the State of—well they gave me a choice of either going to to Panama or to West Virginia—black lung disease area or Springfield, Ohio or to the State of Delaware and in checking the various areas I chose Delaware because they had several serious and interesting health problems—one of the most interesting was infant mortality. Nearly, at that time, nearly a fourth of all the babies died before they got to be a year old and when we—course the first thing to do when we got there was to study the situation and find out why this occurred and we found that outside of Wilmington, 90% of the babies were delivered by illiterate midwives. Most of them could not read or write. They were either colored or from the southern borough, whatnot. Well after we made our study and got the information we needed, we went to the State Legislature and asked for authority to establish a code and ah they gave us that authority and we examined and tested all the midwives and as a result, we eliminated about 50% of it. They couldn’t read nor write and every midwife was under the direction of one of our public health nurse—she had to report to us when she was engaged on a case. The public health nurse followed the case until the delivery and we brought the infant mortality down to 20-25 per thousand we brought it down to 20 but while we were doing this, the State Health Commissioner asked me if I would do something about diphtheria control because they had it typed over 400 for 1000 population—so we set up clinics—I have a picture of one of them right there where I was working (points to photo) Wilmington, Delaware and we immunized 80,000 against diphtheria—practically eliminated it. Then they had a bad typhoid situation and we started in on a sanitation program—building pit privies and whatnot—sanitarians to control typhoid. Well it was all very interesting ah but I had an opportunity then to go to Johns Hopkins with the Rockefeller Foundation and take some courses in public health that was the school of hygiene and I have two Diplomas from Hopkins besides one I have from the University of Vermont. Well then I, after leaving, got a ride into New York State and I didn't know it at the time but Commissioner Moses of the Parks—State Park Commission was working with Canada to establish the seaway, St. Lawrence Seaway and I had charge of syphilis control along Erie, Lake Erie from Canada to Pennsylvania. Had headquarters in Buffalo and ah it was the most interesting experience. We eventually had about 70,000 blood tests which were recorded by Russel Soundex. We worked at all the hospitals—blood donations and things like that. I worked at Erie County penitentiary which was as large as most State prisons—worked with the Doctor there with control among the prisoners. Then and I also</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">worked at Attica prison every Wednesday—Erie county every Tuesday—only had a day but Wednesday. Attica was most interesting because ah at that time the United States Public Health service had a representative in 150 different foreign cities and if we found a ah sailor or another person there from jail who had syphilis and could name the prostitute or contact in any city of the world, we would notify the State Health Department who would notify the Public Health Service who would notify his representative and we found active cases a far away as Hong Kong.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Then ah—I can't remember what happened then, I ah, Oh there's a series of disease known as titseal. They're caused by a bug that burrows in the skin and ah causes a disease like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Well there’s a disease known as "tutsi magutsi" which is a titular disease imported from Japan and it appeared on Long Island and ah I was taken out of, well we've been about 5 years in the census control program and we had clinics well established so on and so forth. I thought my assistant could carry on so they put me down on Long Island and we hired hunters to kill rabbits so we could get the ticks out of the ears of the rabbits and we hired donkeys to roam the countryside, then we catch the donkeys at night and get the, get somebody to get the ticks out of the donkey's ears to bring to our laboratory.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That was the source of the disease?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: To determine what kind of ticks we had.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: There's different kind of diseases caused by various ticks. Well, while I was there ah the man who, the Doctor who had charge of the State Regional office in New York City retired and they asked me to take it over—the State—that’s how I came to being employed by the State of New York and I had supervision over all of Westchester County and all of Long Island and also a $400,000. The State paid New York City for its child health clinics—we had to check that to see if it was spent properly. Well then I got, I got some requests for training assignments and the State gave me permission to take and it was extreme interesting because I think I learned more than I gave my students. I, because on Wednesday nights I went to University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, gave a 2 hour lecture every Wednesday night and many of the students were from foreign countries and they had a lot of experience—I had run into that at Hopkins so that I was made aware of some of the problems of foreign countries. Well then on Thursday mornings I gave a 2 hour lecture at New York University Medical School out there. Thursday evenings I gave a 2 hour lecture at the school of Administration and that was interesting at Washington Square. Then Friday morning I gave a 2 hour lecture for University of Columbia and I had my area covered—everything from Montauk Point top of Westchester County and it was farther from Montauk to my office than on up to Albany, so I had all city driving—I lived in Ossining and commuted 6 days a week in the worst traffic in the world. 9 o'clock in the morning to 5 o'clock at night. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Gee.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And ah I thoroughly enjoyed it but then I got tripped up—I got a coronary.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">an: Uh huh—what year was this Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: That was in 1921 and ah I didn't work from August until April at all ‘cause I had other complications along with other complications and when I had pneumonia, I got collapse of the lower lobe of my right lung and this is tuberculosis—so everything stacked up against me. So the State assigned me, after I could get back to work, they assigned me to the City of Syracuse. First as District Officer which included 5 of the counties upstate. Simply—supervision over the work of the local health officer. Well then the Mayor of the City of Syracuse asked me to take over the job as Commissioner of Health of Syracuse—I didn't want any part of it and</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">said I wouldn't take it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: A little too strenuous?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Pardon?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: A little too strenuous?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No—too much politics.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Too much politics. (laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And ah I said I’d have no part of it at all. When I left his office—came out on television that (I have a hiatal when I talk too much—it chokes me) ah it came out on television that I was going to be the next Health Commissioner and ah I said I didn't want it—so I called the Mayor said, "I'll do it as long as I'm in it because my son is in college; when he gets through, he and I are going to run our apple orchard up in Vermont and I'll do it until he gets straightened around," because I thought I’d last just about that long. He's got some real problems and I wasn't going to stand for it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Now somebody watching it—straighten out some of their problems. Well I took the thing over and found out that first of all—well I wrote to the census bureau and Syracuse has 32 census tracts and in my work you have to know conditions before you can have any programs or do anything. Well I had heard rumors—I knew roughly what the situation was but I wanted facts. So I wrote the Census Bureau and I got the last 5 census figures for the 32 census tracts and asked to name the population as of that date. Then we figured the various for date mortality rates by census tracts and we centered all of our working 10 census tract 5 all downtown—all bunched by downtown and ah first thing which we did was start a housing program which had not been done in this State except in the middle of New York City. I went to Washington and discussed it with them and they assigned a man by the name of Traboney, who had a lot of experience in that field and he came to Syracuse and established a school in the health department to teach sanitary units how to do good building inspections—home inspections and of course we trained our own inspectors—we had several men from other cities come there so we did quite a bit in housing and then they—we got some trouble with food outbreaks, which we didn't like at all and we traced it largely to a salmonella infection from poultry. Then we went at the poultry business ah after the poultry business and ah as a result we were the only place in the State which barred New York dressed poultry and New York dressed poultry in those days all they did was kill the bird and pick the feathers off. Sold it to you with the intestines and everything in. Well that was where we were getting in trouble, so we stopped the sales of New York dressed poultry and then salmonella stopped ah but ah we then, they had a tuberculosis case funding program in which each year they x-rayed all employees of various factories over and over again year after year and it cost about $4500 to find a case of tuberculosis that way—so we went into the tuberculosis problem and we studied very carefully by census tracts, by age groups, by occupation and we found that the bulk of our cases were in the middle age group among food handlers and bartenders—so we stopped examining the factories—we required all food handlers to have chest x-rayed at our expense every year and we, our case load then was quite heavy to find new cases cost us less than $500 against $4500 other way. We also x-rayed all the people once a month at the Onondaga Penitentiary because they had drifters from everywhere. When we found a case that didn't belong to us we notified their Health Officer and we worked our local jail, x-rayed people down there for the same reason. We picked up people we had and gotten away from us and weren't under treatment—so we had intensive tuberculosis control program and housing program. Then we went into air pollution control and again working with Washington, set up an air pollution control program—I think we were the first in the State outside of New York City that was doing that and ah I tried to get rid of meat inspection because they weren't inspecting meat for anything—that we'd be infected by—I couldn't, there's too much influence through the meat people I couldn't—there's some big ones up there. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: This is all in Syracuse now?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yeah and ah there's an interesting thing—I don't want to take your time though.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: No, you're not taking my—I've got all the time in the world so you go right ahead Doctor.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well let me illustrate what I meant by wanting to get rid of meat inspection. We had eight slaughterhouses when I worked there and I went to the mayor—was Costello and ah said, "I don't want anything to do with meat inspection—that's Ag and Markets business." I said, "Don't look for anything that infects human beings anyway"—it was just a lot of headaches. The meat men had too much influence and too much money, I couldn't do it. But anyway, I found that every inspector in every plant was working for the guy he was supposed to be inspecting.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is that right? In cahoots with the slaughterhouse. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: So, I, I started raising hell about them, said, "Well if you don't pay me enough money so I can live"—I’ll cite one instance—a burly fellow came to me one day—he need, now we needed another inspector because one of them quit so he asked for the job and I gave it to him and he had a little experience and one of the sanitarians came one day and he says, "You know what your inspector is doing up at such and such slaughterhouse he's a buyer." Well he had only seen me once—he didn't know me very well so I thought I'd go up and see if it was true. I went up—instead of being on the kill floor watching the slaughtering like he was supposed to, he had a straw hat on and a long white coat and was in this little cubby hole—so I recognized him, he didn't recognize me. I went over to him and said, "If I had a load of pigs to sell, who would I see?" He says, "See me, I'm the buyer." Well I said, "I'm your boss—now you don't have a job." Well he hemmed quite a ruckus anyway. Finally I got that straightened. I got, fortunately, there was a Doctor Jackson who had worked for public health for the Ag. and Markets in Washington for years as Veterinarian and ah he was retired. He lived in Syracuse—people lived there—so I asked him if he'd come back to work for us.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And ah first he said "No,” said, "I worked in Syracuse." Well he did eventually come back to work for us. But anyway we had a rendering plant in Syracuse that made an awful lot of smoke and bad odors and so forth and so the inspectors said, "We can't do a thing with them." So I always followed up inspection work and I went down to this particular rendering plane and I told them we had a lot of complaints and ah asked if they wouldn't stop it—they would do something to stop it but he didn't so I went back again about a couple months, I said, "Now if you don't stop it we’re going to have to close the plant," and he kind of smiled, said, "I'd like to see that." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">"Well,” I said, "I don't think you would." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">"Well what I mean,” he said, "I'd like to see you try it." Said, “Do you know who owns this plant?"</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">I said, "I don't give a—" </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">“Well,” he said, Swift and Co owns it." </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">I said, "Well I've already arrested Swift and Company's men 2 or 3 times a year for bumping meat.” Now do you know what bumping means? They get federally inspected meat—they have a stamp on it - beet juice stamped. Circulars going up to Newark to an uninspected slaughterhouse and buying quarters of beef—bringing them down—bumping them against the one that was federally inspected—now you couldn't tell which one, both marks were smeared.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You mean, you mean transferred from one carcass to the other?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yeah and hang two together like this—just put the good one with the bad one and bump them together and this would come off on the bad one and you couldn't tell which was which so we arrested them for that and then another time they sold 1800 pounds of pork shoulders and shaved off the Federal mark and my inspector called on a Sunday morning, he says, “What'll I do?” I said, "Tell the storekeeper he has a choice of one of two things—one, he can pour kerosene on them in his store or out in the yard.” So he said he thinks he wants it done out in the yard so he had to do that but ah I'm glad.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Pretty rough.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And the milk inspection was even worse, so when they had change of change of administration ah they didn't want me around anymore.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: How many years was now that you spent up there—you went there in 1941?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well I was up there from ‘41 to ‘54.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: ‘54.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: But part of the time I was with the State and part of the time as Health Officer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well I wanted to go to the farm and work with the boy but I—my orchard wasn't developed to the point where I—I wanted to be the guy to solve the problems—let the boy run the farm but they hadn't reached that point—later it did, we were shipping 20,000 boxes of apples but then it didn't so I was mulling things over and ah Dr. Dickson, he's dead now, used to be here. Remember him? </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: He was acting Health Officer—Dr. Tudor had left and we were at a meeting in Syracuse and Dickson said ah, "Well if you aren't going to stay in Syracuse, why don't you come down to Binghamton—we need somebody badly." Well I looked things over and came down. I think I better do something, I can't go to the farm, I’m too young to sit around and do nothing, so I came down and saw Kramer and he ah offered me the job and I took it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: He was Mayor at that time?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Umhm. John Burns was his assistant.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well we had some of the same problems as we had up there ah but ah it wasn't as bad. The thing that we did have down here—I came here in ‘54 and ‘56 had a bad outbreak of polio and I had quite a lot of experience in polio because the City Hospital in Syracuse and had a lot of cases up there—so we started a vaccination program here—we got excellent cooperation from everybody. We had two former school teachers who came in and offered their services as clerks at teen clinics—my wife went down to help them file away the records and all of our nurses, not exception, volunteered to work on our clinic teams. Every Monday and every Thursday night we had a polio clinic—vaccination clinics. We didn't use the—I never liked the, in fact I used Salk vaccine which you had to inject instead of a drop on sugar for this reason—Salk vaccine was a killed virus and would do no damage. Sabin vaccine was a live virus and had started as epidemics. In institutions, they would give it to kids and in the sewer system the live virus would come through and they'd get trouble. The Sabin never has done that so I stuck to polio Sabin vaccine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You stuck to Sabin?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Oh, No, no.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: To Salk.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Salk—I wouldn't touch the Sabin with a ten foot pole.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now which one is it you have on a lump of sugar?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Sabin.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Sabin.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Salk is the one. Salk came out originally—it is a killed bacteria.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah—were you Health Officer at the time that they had that testing program? I think you were?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Sure.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Where all of the ah ah participants—the children were vaccinated and they were vaccinated they didn't know whether they were getting the real vaccine or a placebo.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No I don't think I was here that time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You were never here then?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: I probably.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: ‘Cause I know that my oldest daughter participated in that program—now she's 31 now and—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: I think it must have come after we left because we vaccinated—oh gosh I forget how many but we used to do 15 to 1700 a night and nobody was barred. A third of our cases came from Pennsylvania and we had some we had one family came from Wales—we had some families from California and we never barred anybody because clinical disease doesn't know any boundaries for one thing.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Another thing was I was under State aid—in other words the State paid half of my salary and half of all my nurses' salaries. All the city had to pay was one half of what it cost and all vaccine was paid for by the Red Cross so I didn't hesitate taking anybody.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: So we did that and ah we had oh so many requests from school people and ah people under unemployment for the vaccination records that people asked us—we had very complete records. In fact it stopped it—we haven't had a case since. So that was interesting and then—remember the salt?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: General Hospital, yes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: I don't like to—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: It's all right it's confidential.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: I'll say this—I had a director of nurses and her assistant I had an agreement with them—one of them stayed there all day long watch that nurse—all day—the other would stay all night and watch her.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: What we saw and learned—I asked the State Health Officer—I had no authority to do anything better—I asked the State Health authority we wished to be privileged—they wouldn't take away that person.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: They wouldn't? That made—that was nationwide publicity it got—</span><i><span style="font-weight: 400;">Life</span></i><span style="font-weight: 400;"> magazine and everything. Yeah, that was a terrible thing.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yeah, of course what happened—they disobeyed all regulations and the colored maid went down to the kitchen—instead of getting the sugar in the sugar barrel, she got into the salt barrel.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: They got the salt—it wouldn't have happened if they had helped me out but they wouldn't.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Everywhere you turn you have to deal with (tarb)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Umhm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And sometimes if you get the cooperation of the community, you can get along very nicely.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Ah Tom Corcoran, in Syracuse, was one of the nicest men I ever knew and he never turned me down on anything I wanted to do and when I wanted to stop the sale of New York dressed poultry ah I told him among other things I said, "These poultry people are putting water into the breasts of turkeys and freezing it so they'd weigh more but they aren't too careful and are infecting the turkeys and people who cook them take care of them—now I want to stop salmonella infection I've got to stop that too. Well he hardly believed me he told me afterwards he was taking his daughter up to Rochester to a party. Her boyfriend was with them—he was telling him this as a joke cause that's no joke, "That's my job, why I inject turkeys with it.” So Tom helped me in every way to bring this end about. It was very interesting but we did air pollution control. First we started out we hired a young lad with a tractor to mow all of the vacant lots in town—we asked to mow them all down. We mowed so to get rid of the ragweed and then we had the ah physician in town to cooperate with us to do pollen counts—published everything in the papers and ah I think our best bet was the centering our problems right in the central part of the city the 10 census tracts and our nurses concentrated their efforts there. When I went there, a nurse visited every home where there was a newborn baby, regardless of whether they got a million dollars or no money—so we stopped that. We had them visit people in 10 census tracts then we sent postcards to other people saying if you want the nurse, all you have to do is let us know. But it let the nurses concentrate their work in the 10 census tracts where our problems were and ah it had its effect very definitely and very interesting.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: How about the mortality rate as far as the infants were concerned—did that go down?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yes it went down and then wasn't awfully high but it was higher we wanted. It’s always too high.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah, that’s true.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: But the thing that concerned us the most in Syracuse ah was the sloppy way the inspectors were operating and the tuberculosis control program wasn't wanted at all and this salmonella infection thing in poultry gave us a lot of things to—in other words, in my field of work, there are plenty of problems to look for but sometimes it's difficult to get the authority to handle it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: What year did you retire Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: ‘63.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: ‘63 so outside of the ah few years you were in private practice, all your life has been devoted to public health service.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: That’s right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And in your private practice days, I suppose you made house calls.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Uh absolutely—I was the local health officer.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: (Laughter) So what would you say would be the difference in the practice of medicine today as compared to when you first started out?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Please—don't.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Please don't get you started, huh? (laughter) It's the age of specialization.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well I could show you some—I've kept information every few days at Johns Hopkins and University of Vermont and so forth—publications and the older men I think are pleading, pleading so as to teach medicine. Pleading with them. This one fellow graduated at same time I did at Johns Hopkins—he had a letter in recent publications says, ''Why can't you go back to teaching medicine?"</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah—wasn't it true though in your day too that you had your own pharmacy—no such thing as drugstores?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well there was drug stores.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: There weren't too many of them though.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: We dispensed a lot of medicine.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Dispensed a lot of it yourself.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And we didn't have—I have a nephew who is the Vice President of (inaudible) Drug Company. They started, they were American boys and they went to London because they were the first ones to put powders in paper and wrap them up but these boys put them in custom made pills and they went to London to do that and were very successful so they came over here and started a branch station New York Burroughs Co. Well he went to work for them when he was a young pharmacist just out of Temple—he's now Vice President. His job is to fly to Switzerland where all this monkey business comes from through drugs—I don't have the faintest what it is today, I'm taking drugs I haven't the faintest idea what the devil they are—I don't think the Doctor knows either. But ah when there's something new they think is startling comes out. He thinks company policy goes over to Switzerland and talk and see if he thinks it's any good but I guess he's a pretty good pharmacist because he goes over and he twists an arm to find out really ‘cause my job depends on what I tell my people.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: So if he thinks it's good then he goes to London, where the headquarters really are for his offer and he gets their approval to go on with it. Then he flies to Washington to get approval down there to OK to make it—then he has to fly to his home office here and tell everything is OK to go ahead and make the pills. But ah he tells me—I asked him one day I said, "Why can't you do something so the Doctors know what they're giving their medicine—more about it," said, ''Why we spend a million dollars a year putting into every package of tablets we send out just exactly how we spend our money and how it comes out."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: You know I think the public today are getting so confused that every day it comes out in the paper that no matter what you're eating, soft drinks or anything else, it's causing cancer. Now I've got sugar myself and I 'm not supposed to eat sugar but I'm substituting saccharin—now they come out and say saccharin is going to cause cancer so what am I supposed to do—crawl in and cover up? (laughter).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Well this cancer thing is ah humm.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Now what medical school did you go to Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: University of Vermont.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: University of Vermont Medical School and the University of Vermont.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: For pre-medical work.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uhhuh and how old are you now Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: I was born in 1893</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: 1893.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: 85 years old last January.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: And how many children do you have?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Two.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Two—boy and a girl and the boy is up in Vermont.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No the boy is in Watertown—he and his wife have quite a busy ceramics business.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And the girl lives in Fairport and teaches in East High School in Rochester.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: I see.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: She's married and has three daughters and ah she has—I've asked her to quit many times. She has a class, I think they're idiots—they're assigned to her by the Courts—they can't get along in school or anything else and they kick them out of school so the court makes them go to our daughter's school. Well she's been hit in the face by them, she’s had her foot broken by stomping on her feet.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: My God.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: But she—I think she enjoys it because she gets hold of these—most, a lot of them are colored and she says she had one big bruiser the other day, I think 18 or 19 years old and ah he threatened to haul off and paste her—if he did he might have killed her but ah she likes it because she thinks that's worthwhile. All of them can't read a thing as high as 18, 19 years old—that's about the limit. So whatever she does is clear gain and she has to visit their homes and ah she thoroughly enjoys her work—she's going to retire in June.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: That is good—so you never got the farm up in Vermont with the apple orchard?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No, no so sold it—no we sold it ah my wife, my son's wife came from Syracuse and she got kind of homesick up there in the country—she lived there 16 years. She wanted to go back to Syracuse so they left for Syracuse and I sold the farm but ah it got to be a very productive farm—sold 20,000 boxes of apples a year.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Gee.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And they—the man we sold it to told me 1st summer, told me, "I was offered twice what I paid for it."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Uh huh.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: And ah it's 150 acres and said for 70 acres he was offered $100,000 no buildings, but it is a very good productive orchard. But the kids, my wife didn't want to stay there and I'm too old to handle it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Sold it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Have you received any awards in your work through the years Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yes, I've got one from Syracuse, honorary, ah fraternity from Syracuse School of Medicine, Maxwell School in Citizenship and I'm an honorary come out and I’ll show you (goes out on side porch and shows Dan diplomas)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Is there anything else you'd like to tell me?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: If you shut that off, I'll tell you. (meaning tape recorder)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: Ah well for the record I'll shut it off, sure but I mean is there anything else that you can think of as far as your career is concerned before I shut it off?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: Yes I had some wonderful opportunities. In the State of Oregon, when I was doing syphilis control work in Rockwell County. State Health Commission asked me to go to New York City at the annual meeting for the entire country and sell our program, with our nurses and all—so what we were doing. Twenty-three States asked for our records and so forth and the State of Oregon asked me to come there. They said they'd give me a month’s salary—they'd pay all my expenses and so forth if I'd come up and set up a program there. They wouldn't let me go because I was—had nobody to replace me and ah they called Remington Rand—the stinkers patented my records and one day six or eight months afterwards, a young lad came into my office—spread out some records looked very familiar to me and he says, "Of course you can use these all you want to," says, "I am using it," says, "You can't let anybody else use it—they're ours—they're patented." They patented my own records.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: (Laughter) My God. Well would you like me to play this back for you Doctor?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dan: No.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Sargent: No.</span></p>
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent
Subject
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Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination
Description
An account of the resource
Dr. Clealand A. Sargent speaks about his upbringing in Richford, Vermont, premedical and medical education at the University of Vermont, and his private practice in Orwell, Vermont and why he had to give it up. He discusses entering the public health field, relating his experiences with different diseases and control programs in states in which he was a health officer. He also describes taking advanced courses at Johns Hopkins Medical School and teaching classes at various New York universities, and notes the differences in medical practices from the start of his career to the current day. He discusses his position and experiences as the Health Commissioner in Syracuse, NY.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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audio/mp3
Language
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English
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Recording 52A ; Recording 52B
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Sargent, Clealand A. ; O'Neil, Dan
Date
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1978-04-26
Date Modified
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2016-03-27
Is Part Of
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Broome County Oral History Project
Extent
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33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Broome County Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Broome County -- History
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Description
An account of the resource
The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. <br /><br />In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed.<br /><br />See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information.<br /><br /><strong>Acknowledgment of sensitive content</strong><br />Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. <span>Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community.</span> However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared.
Identifier
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2
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In copyright
Contributor
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Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer
Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist
Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee
Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian
Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant
Jamey McDermott, Student Employee
Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives
David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies
Coverage
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1977-1978
Relation
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<a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a>
Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription
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Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Smith, Jean
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Wood, Wanda
Date of Interview
1978-05-02
Collection
Broome County Oral History Project
Date of Digitization
2016-03-27
Duration
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33:40 Minutes ; 18:44 Minutes
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56022">Interview with Dr. Jean Smith</a>
Subject LCSH
Smith, Jean -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Women physicians -- Interviews; Syracuse University; World War, 1939-1945; Vaccination; Chenango Valley Central Schools; Chenango Valley Medical Group; State University of New York at Binghamton Clinical Campus; Polio
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Transcription
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<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Broome County Oral History Project</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interview with: Dr. Jean Smith</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Interviewed by: Wanda Wood</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Date of interview: 2 May 1978</span></p>
<br />
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Dr. Jean Smith of Highover Rd. in Chenango Bridge. The date is the second of May, 1978. Doctor Jean, you've recently retired as a family physician after twenty-some years in—a our community and we're interested in your life experiences in—a this Broome County area. A—would you begin by telling us where you were born?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well, I was born and raised in Syracuse, but both of my parents came from Broome County and they were born and raised in Windsor, New York, where my grandfather was a dentist. My mother and father both went to Syracuse to—to—a college and—a they later settled there. And I spent my summers in this area, so that I was always interested in coming back here. And when I finished my training I came to Chenango Bridge and started practicing in family practice with my brother, who was already here in family practice. Ah—I wanted to be a doctor as long as I could remember. I do remember when I was in—a high school, we had to write a paper on—a “My Vocation” and I wrote about nursing, but I looked into nursing schools and decided that I wouldn't be an ordinary nurse, I would be the very </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">best</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">, so I told my brother I was going to Yale and get a Master of Nursing and—a so he said, "Well how long will </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">that</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> take?" (Laughing) I said "Six years." And he said, ''Well in seven years you could go on to medical school, you—" and so that </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">clinched</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> it. I knew that's really what I preferred. But I went to school at Syracuse in—a during—it was during the war years. And there were four girls in the class and about forty-five fellows and they were all in the service, except one. And—a so they were on the gravy train. They had their tuition paid and their books and their microscopes and—a a nice fat check which they used for gambling! (chuckles) We told them that if they used that money they could pay our way through too, but they didn't like that idea too well. But we </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">did</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> have a good class and we had lots of fun and—a people ask me today if I had trouble—being a woman in medical school or in medicine. I guess I was just too naïve to know that if there was trouble I didn't find it. But I hear the women libbers today and realize that I wa—probably was discriminated against in many </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">small</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> ways, but I just ignored it and it was no problem at the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">time</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">, but I am sympathetic with the girls who are trying to get real equality today and opportunities.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well, when you came to—to this area, how many women physicians were in practice?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr.Jean: There were five or six here at the time and I can think of six of us now who are retired and—a I'm not aware of more than two or three in the area that are practicing now. There's a real—I think there's a real need for women physicians in the area now. But surprisingly enough there were about five or six at that time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Dr. Mary Ross was one of them, wasn't she?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yeah—Dr. Mary Ross was a—family physician for a lot of people in the area; Dr. Myrtle Wilcox who just recently retired; and—a Dr. Florence Warner who retired a few years ago, but she's still doing the Well Baby Clinics; and Dr.Connie Vitanza came just after I did in pedia—pediatrics—she retired last year; and there was an allergist, Dr. Vencko I think her name was. She's still around but I don't know if she's doing allergy or not. Her husband's a surgeon.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: So when you—when </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">you</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> came here your brother who was known as Dr. Bob, and you are known as Dr. Jean—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: That's right.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: —a—he was, he had already—a—been in practice for a couple of years, wasn't it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yes. He graduated from med school about six years before I did, but he was in the service for a while. He'd started practicing in Chenango Bridge—was only here about a year, when Pearl Harbor occurred and he went in the Navy and then came back to Chenango Bridge after the war. So he'd only been back about a year—or maybe two—when I finished and joined him. But we both liked the area a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">lot</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. I think one of the reasons was—a it was a mixed practice of rural and suburban. We had the feeling that we (were) really needed in the country—the farmers and the country people—and—and yet we had the stimulation of suburban people. And—a—a—we both enjoyed our work with the school because we made friends and a good percentage of the administrators and the teachers were our patients and friends and that was very stimulating, and has been over the years. I've enjoyed that.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Now you speak almost casually about this rural practice, but (laughs) I seem to remember a lot of your calls were done in the back hills, so to speak.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well, we made a lot of house calls in those days and—a we got to know the families—a real well—traveled in a lot of snow and a lot of mud. I remember it was always a challenge and fun to drive up in the country in all kinds of weather but I did have to rely on friends every now and then in the middle of the night to help out. I used to call on Bruce Russell or Ron Brown or somebody to drive with me on some bad nights. I think they enjoyed it, too. Sometimes we had to call the ambulance and the ambulance drivers would complain and say what a terrible time they had getting up there, and they'd suddenly realize that we were there too, and had </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">been</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> there (laughs) for a while. But it was—it was an exciting time. It was just the beginning of antibiotics then, too. I remember going up into the country and giving some of the first shots of penicillin in the area. Nowadays they give about a million units of penicillin a day and we used to—a have little tablets of ten thousand-unit penicillin and we'd dissolve 'em and put ‘em in the syringe and (laughs) we used to get good </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">results</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. We'd cure pneumonia with just a little bit of penicillin. It was terrib—pretty expensive at that time, too, so we didn't use much. It was hard to get. In fact it was <span style="text-decoration: underline;">so close</span> to the beginning of antibiotic—era—1947 was when I came to Chenango Bridge—penicillin had not been out long. I think it was about 1940 or 1942 it was </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">first</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> used. And—a in the thirties was the first that they had sulfa even. Before that I remember neighbors that died of pneumonia and infections and a lot of the kids I knew had big mastoid operation scars because they didn't have any other real way to </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">cure</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> their infections. And—a in fact my brother's wife died when he was a medical student from—a infection that today would be considered just a—a—</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">a nuisance</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">, post-operatively, and a shot of penicillin or a few antibiotics would take care of the situation. And—a so when you think that all—all of this—a advance in medicine that has come in, not only in my </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">lifetime</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> but in the few years that I practiced—it's pretty amazing. And—a—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: How about—a polio? Was that—at the time you started practice there was no—a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">nothing</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> that could be done actually to prevent it, was there?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: No—every summer we used to dread—a summer coming on when the kids first started to have symptoms of headache and vomiting and th—it was always a big worry as to which ones were going to develop polio—and there were always a few </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">every</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> summer. Some summers there were </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">more</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> than a few and I think it was about 1954 that—a we had our first—a program for polio vaccine and the kids were called polio pioneers 'cause only half of them got the real McCoy and half of them got a placebo-type of shot, and they were just doing—a their </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">first big</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> public health studies in—to the value of polio vaccine and it was so successful that—a I </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">think</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> it was 1955 that we—a had another project where we were giving the real McCoy and—a to just as many youngsters as we could reach. I remember—a we had—a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">large</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> clinics at the schools through Broome County. It seems to me with the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">shots</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> it was all done through the schools then later when we had the oral vaccine, it was—had big polio Sundays where the entire population could come. But that first year it was just available for a certain age group, um, kids that were most susceptible and—a it was just done through the schools, it was </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">not</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> available for adults in that year.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Now at that time—a you were probably—had been appointed the school physician for Chenango Valley, hadn't you?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Um-hmm, yeah I was Chenango Valley School Physician—most of those years. That was the same year that I got polio myself in—a, I think it was—a September or October. I—a was treating a little five months old baby at home and—a about—a few days later I came down with polio and I was laid up for a few months and went back part-time on—with—a crutches and braces, but kept at it—a my physiotherapy and got along real well and now I have practically nothing—to show for it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Nothing to show for it ... (both chuckle) that's the way to do things... Is there anything else you'd like to say about—a the school—um health programs?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr.Jean: Well one of the—a—a most satisfying parts of my work in the school was working with the school nurse—teachers who were—a all very well trained and very dedicated people and our school administrator—a Mr.Galloway, was very interested in school health and we had a—</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">good</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> program where we really tried to identify youngsters who needed special attention and special services and see that they got them. And the nurses were given the time and the help to work with the families and see that they followed </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">through </span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">with any recommendations that we made. I really enjoyed that part of my work.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: You've—a—probably the—the larger part of your practice has been with a—obstetrics and pediatrics, hasn't it? You've always enjoyed working with babies and I think that's what you're remembered for mostly around here—is your excellent care—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well, I've probably delivered well over a thousand babies or maybe fifteen hundred babies in that—a length of time, and—a took care of most of them and—a yes—I took care of the whole family and I enjoyed knowing the whole family and—a I—a I like to think that I—that I </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">am</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> a family physician, and I'm really proud that I've always belonged to the Academy of General Practice, which is now the Academy of Family Practice. And it was one of the first groups that required post-graduate—a—a courses to maintain your membership. Right from the beginning I've always taken a lot of—a courses. We've had to have a hundred and fifty hours, at least, every three years and that—a—I'd combine that with travel. I'd go to different medical centers throughout the country and get acquainted with them and keep up to date on things and—a in 1971 I took the two-day board examination to become a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">specialist</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> in Family Practice. That's the most recent specialty in the United States as far as having—a a specialty board and special certification, and happily many of the younger physicians today are beginning to go into that specialty, since it's taken on—a little more respectability. And many other specialities in some states now are requiring—a approved post-graduate hours and—a followed our leadership in that. I've been active over the years, too in the American Women's Medical Association and on their scholarship committees. It's interesting going over the scholarship applications today. The budgets of the girls in medical school are—it costs ten or twelve thousand dollars a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">year</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> now, to go to medical school. And I used to beg, borrow or steal—two hundred dollars four times a year to pay my tuition (laughs) and I lived at home, so that wasn't any problem. But—a it's amazing that—a these youngsters are not </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">discouraged</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. They go right ahead and do the same thing—beg, borrow or steal, I guess. There are ma—many of them, their parents aren't supporting them anymore in graduate school and they're going in debt for 20 or 30,000 dollars in—a—with government loans and scholarships and they're just thinking nothing </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">of</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Would you—a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">advise</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> young people to go into this—general practice rather than a specialization these days?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well I think it depends a lot on the—a the individual and where their interests lie. I would say it would be one of the most </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">rewarding</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">—a—a specialties certainly because—a you're dealing more in the—in the—</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">breadth</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> of problems—the family problems, the medical problems rather than the—than going </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">deeply</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> into one area, but it involves the, the emotional health and the social well-being of the family as well as their medical problems and it's—it's really fascinating and very, very rewarding to get to work with the family as a whole. And—a I—it's a whole new ball game in medicine today, however. There's so many new special </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">areas</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">—a that one </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">needs</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> to be familiar with and a lot of social changes that—a necessitate changes in the way one practices, and it—a—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: So the Family Physician is—</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">is</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> a specialty in this age?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yes. It really is, yeah. A family physician has a lot of special </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">knowledge</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> about the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">family</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">—about the individual problems of families and various ages and various kinds of problems that families have that a specialist—a wouldn't be </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">expected</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> to know. So a family physician has a lot to offer now—a that a specialist in—a, for instance surgery or neurology or something else—a—a would really be out of his bailiwick.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Do you want to tell us something about the development of the Chenango Bridge Medical Group? A—first there were you and your brother—Dr. Jean and Dr. Bob—and—a practicing in his </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">home</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Um-hmm. That's right. Then—a we had—a, Dr.Howard came and joined us, and there were </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">three</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> of us practicing from—a Bob's home. Then Bob went back to take his specialty training in surgery and—a Dr.Peterson, I think, was the next one to join us. Anyway, over the years we've gradually </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">enlarged</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> the group, but we've tried to keep it—a, basically a family or primary care—a group and just added specialists as we felt there was a need for them.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: When you first—a went into the building on Chenango Bridge Road—when was that built?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: (laughs) Gee, I don't remember, I should have checked on some of the dates—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well, it was shortly after the two of you had taken on another doctor in the group, wasn't it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yeah. I think there were four of us when we built—a the original building and we've added on to that twice and—a now with the most recent addition there are facilities for twelve physicians. We've never had that many. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Plus the X-ray and the medical lab.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: X-ray, lab, physiotherapy and—a with room for expansion—a. As I say, we could take probably—a two or three more physicians, as far as the space is concerned. But the offices—a—the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">business</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> office takes up quite a little space now, too, with all the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">paperwork</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> involved in the practice of medicine. We need a secretary for various special areas. We have one who does almost all Workmen's Compensation and on that does mostly—a Welfare and Medicare and Medicaid, and there's all kinds of billing machines and things that our professors never told us about when </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">we</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> were in medical school!</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: That's </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">another</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> specialization, isn't it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yes. Yeah it </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">is</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. We have a full time business manager and he's in charge of—I don't know </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">how</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> many employees—eight or ten, anyway.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well this—a group has—a filled a great need in this community because—a when Dr. Bob first came here, of course there was no physician in this particular area of the Town of Chenango and—a with the post-war </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">growth</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> of housing around here and the consequent </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">baby boom</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">—a your services were greatly appreciated in this community, I remember.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well, we've enjoyed trying to </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">provide</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> that service and enlarging the Group as we needed to. I was thinking about the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">switchboard</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> at the office. It has—a, of course, many extensions and—a we have to have—a a girl at our switchboard all the time and I remember when we first </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">started</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. Remember the old town switchboard and Lilian Pierson was the operator? And we'd—I'd go on a house call up around Chenango Forks, a—ten o'clock at night and before I'd left there the phone would ring and the switchboard—I mean the—a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">telephone</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> operator down in Chenango Bridge—where was it, over the old railroad station or post-office? Somewhere down there—</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Yeah.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: —anyway, she—she'd follow me around the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">country</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> and tell me the next—a, next—a house call to make, 'cause somebody'd call in and she'd know right where I was, I didn't have to tell her. And—a that </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">was</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> kinda fun to keep in touch that way. And of course we didn't have anybody at night—other than the doctor's wife usually, that answered the phone.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: How about emergency services? When—when you started and—and compared with what they are today with our present set-up in the Town of Chenango? </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well, when there were two of us we alternated nights and weekends, all year round there was always one of us on—a—</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">hopefully</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> available. We tried to be available. And—a with the Group, we have rotated the various specialities. There's always been a surgeon and a medical person on call in addition to the general physician on call, but—a in recent years the—a ambulance service and the hospital emergency rooms have been </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">very</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> well staffed with medical people and paramedical people. And so I'm sure the service is very much better than it was at that time—a, but they have a lot of sophisticated equipment to work with, which—a of course we didn't have, we did the best we could. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: It was simple but it was good.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Some of the new sophisticated equipment is—a raising some ethical questions that are going to be very difficult to deal with and—a I can see that we're going to need a lot of help from other fields—a beside medicine, in solving the ethical problems that are arising. A—for instance, I myself carry a card—a which states that I </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">don't</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> want to be kept alive by all of our fancy equipment </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">if</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> there’s no reasonable hope of recover—recovery physically or mentally. And—a this is not a legal document but—a—it—it lets my family and my physicians know how I feel about it and—a—a—I'm very much concerned about some of the so-called advances in medicine which are </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">miraculous</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> and </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">really great</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> where they're—where they </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">should</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> be applied, but the question is when and where should they be applied?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: (Would that) be in any particular case, such as older patients who are—have lived their useful years and are </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">ready</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> to go?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Right. We used to say pneumonia is the friend of the aged, and—a I can think of a number of elderly people who—a died fairly quickly, quickly and easily at home with pneumonia, after various other problems, but today we're almost </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">forced</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> to use antibiotics if someone has pneumonia because it's something we </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">can cure</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. But—a I'm—it's very difficult to make decisions as to a—when to—a limit your treatment in an older person or a terminal person. These are some of the things that the younger physicians—a are having to face and—a are—a… These kinds of things are beginning to be incorporated in the medical curriculum to realize that—a physicians </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">aren't</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> gods and—a we don't have the answers and we need </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">help</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> in making decisions. One—a thing that I am quite pleased about recently—it seems to me that people in general are beginning to take more responsibility for their own health care, both preventative medicine and in deciding what they—how far they want to go in treating their illnesses, and I think that's as it </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">should</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> be. Physicians should present—a the available resources and—a the family and the patient and the doctor together should decide what they want to do with the things that are available.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: How about this—a modern craze, it seems, on—a health foods and natural—a nutrition. What do you think about that? Do you have any thoughts about it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Yes. It's a—there are two sides of it that—a, it seems to me, that the young people today—a who are interested in taking care of their bodies and eating properly and exercising and—a taking some responsibility for themselves—a that, that's very </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">good</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">, but I'm really alarmed at some of the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">information</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> that they are getting from faddists and—a—a all the books that are being written for profit, and—a where it's very difficult for—a people to make up their minds as to what is legitimate and what is 'quacky.' And—a I think we have to rely a lot on the—a whole scientific community and their—a the dietetic associations and people that have really </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">studied</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> nutrition over the years, instead of just picking up the first book on the newsstand and thinking it sounds like it's gonna be the answer to everybody's prayers.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Can you remember any instances—a during your practice when you—a had problems with people who were trying to cure themselves?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: No, not too much, I think they probably didn't—a—a—confide in me what they were doing if they—if they did. I remember running into a few·mushroom poisonings, where people would go out and get a beautiful batch of mushrooms and get a couple—a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">bad</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> ones. That always—a was rather alarming, but I've noticed today there's a lot of courses in mushroom identification, so maybe people know more about it than they did.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well now that—a you are retired, what are your…what are your activities going to be in the next—a few years?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: Well I retired—a not because I </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">planned</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> to, but for health reasons and—a I had many interests and hobbies in photography and traveling, and taken up some new ones—sculpture, and been going to some—a workshops in counseling and—a personal growth and so I've got a lot of interests. I had </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">thought</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> that I might do some volunteer work in medicine, but I have discovered that there are a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">lot</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> of other areas in this world that I never even <span style="text-decoration: underline;">heard</span> about before, that are </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">well worth looking into and—a I'm really enjoying </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">exploring</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> new areas. Never had time for it </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">before</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;">. So I—some of the volunteer things in the medical field are—are having to wait at the moment; I don't know whether I'll get back into that or not.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: You are involved with the—the new medical program at SUNY?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: I have been on—a the curriculum committee for the new clinical campus. The clinical campus at SUNY is a—a new development and they’ve appointed—a—faculty already. We have a Dean, Assistant Dean, and some educators that are planning a program. What it actually is, is half of the junior and senior medical school classes from Syracuse will be coming to the Binghamton area for their clinical training and—a they're not coming until, I believe 1980. There will be twenty students. We already have some Fifth Pathway students that are working in the hospitals here. These are students who have had—a their medical education overseas and are fulfilling some special clinical work here. And we're developing the faculty and—a hopefully we'll have some training in </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">teaching</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> for our local people. Um—these programs are being set up now, well ahead of the time the </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">students</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> are going to arrive. And it's been a </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-weight: 400;">real</span></span><span style="font-weight: 400;"> stimulation to the medical community here and I'm sure it'll continue to be now. Um—the emphasis, I think, is going to be on primary care, although all the specialties will be involved and—a I…it seems to me that it's getting off to a very good start. There's some good people involved in the program.<br /></span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to have put on this tape while we're at it?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: I think we've covered quite a little ground here already. Maybe another day we'll come up with some special topics.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Wanda: Well if you have anything to add later on we can still—a do that, however I want to thank you for the time you've taken this morning and for your service to this community.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;">Dr. Jean: It's been fun.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-weight: 400;"><br /><br /></span></p>
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Interview with Dr. Jean Smith
Subject
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Smith, Jean -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Women physicians -- Interviews; Syracuse University; World War, 1939-1945; Vaccination; Chenango Valley Central Schools; Chenango Valley Medical Group; State University of New York at Binghamton Clinical Campus; Polio
Description
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Dr. Jean Smith speaks about her motivations for becoming a physician and why she settled in Chenango Bridge, NY. She received her education at <a href="http://www.syr.edu/">Syracuse University</a> during World War II and went into practice with her brother, Dr. Robert Smith. She discusses several aspect of her career, including house calls and early use of penicillin and antibiotics. She also discusses working with <a href="http://www.cvcsd.stier.org/">Chenango Valley Central Schools</a> as a school physician and in the field of family practice, the development of the Chenango Bridge Medical Group, and emerging ethical questions in regard to modern medicine. She describes her interest in current medical practice and natural food, some of her post-retirement interests, as well as the beginning of the clinical campus program at the State University of New York at Binghamton.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Rights
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This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
Format
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audio/mp3
Language
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English
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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Recording 55A ; Recording 55B
Contributor
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Smith, Jean ; Wood, Wanda
Date
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1978-05-02
Date Modified
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2016-03-27
Is Part Of
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Broome County Oral History Project
Extent
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33:40 Minutes ; 18:44 Minutes