2 10 75 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/87ed9fdce623c4a63ee05dcd361a6d5f.jpg 07197e87f19bc3e6d8086a6f4f2bf605 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/cf046d8614425cdedfc4caedea4295e0.mp3 a1b73960d267b156d6d9784eb6ebfea7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gallo, Barbara Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-01-24 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:15 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55925">Interview with Barbara Gallo</a> Subject LCSH Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Barbara Gallo Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 24 January 1978 Dan: OK, Barbara, will you relate to me the life and working experiences of your father and uncle from the time of their immigration to the retirement in the community? Barbara: My uncle Nick Gallo came over here in 1889 at the age of 19 years and he landed in New York and stayed there for a few months and then went to Scranton, PA, where he went into the, ah, stone cutting business with Mr. Frank Carlucci, who did a lot of work like that, and ah, one of the buildings that they, ah, were contracted to build was the new, the Courthouse, which now stands, ah, since the old one was burned own and Uncle Nick was the foreman on the job and, ah, I'm not certain whether he did much of the cutting there, but ah, later on, ah, then, ah, my dad, who was also had the trade as a stonecutter, ah, worked on the Press Building. On the doorway, and also, ah, did the work on the lions’ heads that are way up almost to the top of the building there, and his pay at that in those days was around $7 a day, which was quite high, and Uncle Nick, ah, after, gave up the work of stonecutting and married, ah, my Aunt Gussie Arrigoni, who owned a small store in the Moon Block, which was across from the Arlington Hotel. Then in 1914 he started this bank which was chartered by the State of New York—it was more of a savings bank than a commercial bank, which we now know. Ah, it was primarily for Italian immigrants—they had, ah, great trust in my uncle and would ask him to hold their money for them, and so with this he formed this bank, and then I guess he had the bank for about 12 or 14 years, and in 1926 he retired to Italy and gave up most of his assets that he had here, with the idea of staying, remaining in Italy. Then he did return to, ah, the United States, into Binghamton—he was involved politically with, ah, Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the State of New York at the time, and he did much in the way of getting people to, the Italian citizens here to get out and vote so they would exercise their American citizenship, and he was, ah, a member of the Elks Club at the time and also ah Knighted by the King of Italy in, after, ah, World War I for his, whatever help that he contributed at the time towards—what would you say?—a better world, anyway, and then, ah, in 1930 or something he retired again. Dan: Did he do anything when he came back after— Barbara: No, he remarried. He was retired—it was only, you know, politically, ah, involved. Dan: Politically involved—in other words, in 1930 he just, ah, severed all relations entirely. Barbara: With the business. Dan: OK. Barbara: But he did have, also, at the time that he had the bank, he did have a wholesale grocery and, ah, this steamship agency, which, when he did retire, turned the steamship agency over to my dad, Michael. Ah, Michael came here in the later 1800s, around 1896 or so, and he worked, as I say, on the Press building there, but then— Dan: When did—he came directly from Italy to Binghamton? Barbara: No, he went to Scranton also. Dan: Oh, he went to Scranton and worked for the same contractor your uncle did? Barbara: Umhm. Dan: Then the reason he came to Binghamton was the Press building job? Barbara: Right, right, but because of the—he had to give that up because of, ah, physical, ah, ailments that he acquired through, I guess, ah, the dust from the stone there, I suppose. Dan: Right. Barhara: He then gave that up and, ah, returned to Italy for a matter of just probably a couple of years or so, and he came back here in 19, ah, 1915, I believe it was. He married my mother, Rose Arrigoni, and they together had this wholesale grocery, and after a few years he was able to, ah, put aside some money and built the building there on Fayette Street, and they moved their grocery store over to that building there and that’s where it remained for about 40-some years, and together with that he had this steamship agency and the money exchange, which was a great help to the Italian community at that time. Mother, although she was American born, was very fluent in the Italian language and, ah, was often used as an interpreter for a lot of these Italian people—especially like going to the doctor or for legal purposes. Many times she would go to the, ah, where they would get their citizenship and, ah, help them in that way and explaining things to them, and she was quite active in church too. Which, going back to my Uncle Nick, was instrumental in getting the Italian, ah, Church of St. Mary’s of the Assumption here, ’cause there was a need for it at the time, see, and this community was increasing and therefore they, ah, worked with some other Italian people and was able to get the church started here. Dan: Now you mentioned, ah, Barbara, that your Uncle Nick married your Aunt Gussie— Barbara: Arrigoni—there were two sisters married to two brothers. Dan: That’s what I was going to ask you—two sisters married two brothers, and was Gussie a native of the United States, or was she born— Barbara: She was, she was the only, ah, the only child that was born over there—all the rest of the Arrigonis. Dan: Oh, she was born over there. Barbara: Yes, but she came here like two years old or— Dan: Oh, I see. They got married here, though? Barbara: Yes, yes, they were married here. Dan: And Rose was your, ah, was your mother—ah, she had her own store, her own business, is that right? Barbara: No, no, my Aunt Gussie. Dan: Oh, Gussie, Gussie had it. Barbara: Gussie had a candy store—they made candies and things. That’s where I guess they used to see each other. Dan: But she gave that up when—ah, did she retain that when your uncle had the bank? Barbara: No, no. Dan: She gave that up? Barbara: Then they had a child. Dan: I see. Barbara: She was, you might say, more or less retired in that business there. Dan: I see. So your dad, primarily, outside of the job he did on the Press building, did most of his—most of his time in the wholesale, in the retail— Barbara: Eventually went into the retail business because he used to go around as a wholesaler, he used to supply, ah, some of the restaurants and even places out of town with Italian food. Dan: Uh huh. Barbara: Like macaroni, which were all imported, and he did have his own brand on the merchandise—tomatoes, macaroni, and oil—called Gallo brand, which represented the—the label was a rooster, which meant Gallo. Dan: I see. Barbara: And he used to have that for quite a few years. Dan: And your dad retired at what age, Barbara? Or what year, do you know? Barbara: He retired about the age of 82. Dan: About 82. Barbara: About 82, because he was sick for about 8 years. He was 90 when he died. Dan: And how old was your uncle when he died, remember? Barbara: My uncle was 83 and he died around 1954 in Italy—he retired, he was there when he died. Dan: Oh, he went back to Italy then. Oh, then he died over there. Barbara: Ah, in, after WWII, 1942 or 1943, when the war ended, his daughter, who had resided there in Naples, Italy, came back here and, ’cause they were on in years and, ah, ah, she was wanted her parents to be with her, and it was so logical for them to go there, so they gave up their home here and retired there, and the only—my aunt died the same year, I think. Dan: Oh, is that right? Barbara: Over there, and my uncle died the following year. Dan: Oh so your Aunt Gussie is, ah, and your uncle are buried over in Italy. OK, now you say your dad worked on the, your uncle worked on the Courthouse as a foreman, and of course I guess they, prior to that they had a fire at the Courthouse. Barbara: I believe it was sort of a wooden structure in the early times. Dan: Something like that—I saw a picture of it in the Susquehanna this past week or so, and ah, I suppose it had to be restored. Barbara: Like the columns and all are, see, are all stone, and they needed to be shaped. Things, I don't believe, in those days, were brought in already made. Dan: No—true, true. Barbara: ’Cause, ah, like I say, my dad always talked about the work on the Courthouse. ’Course he did other work, you know, in other places. This was one of his pride and joy, I guess, and ah, like grapes around the archway, and then up above are the lions’ heads, which are rather large and he had to do it up there from a solid piece of granite. Dan: Yeah. Barbara: And, ah, it was all done on scaffolding, which they had to put up. Dan: So it’s all by hand. Barbara: All by hand and chisel. Dan: Gee. Barbara: It was their trade from Italy and their reason for coming here was just, ah— Dan: How long did it take him to complete that archway on the Press building? Barbara: It took him about four months to complete that archway on the Press building. Dan: You don't know how long, as far as the lions’ heads—it probably took longer to do that. Barbara: Oh, it was longer than that, because like you say, they, ah, just, they were, if you could see them, their fangs or whatever they had are real long, like the length of an arm. Dan: Yeah, yeah, uh huh. Did he work on any other Kilmer property at all? Barbara: I don't recall—-ah, this was just, you know, what they would tell us from time to time. Dan: Uh huh. And your dad took over the steamship agency and the money exchange from your uncle after he retired, and the bank was just closed. Barbara: The bank had to be dissolved. Dan: Yeah, yeah, OK. Now the, in the building of St. Mary’s Church of the Assumption—ah, that, of course, was a National church, and your uncle was instrumental in getting that started. Barbara: In getting that started. Dan: As a fundraiser, or— Barbara: As a fundraiser and in other ways, you know. Dan: This is going back before your time, Barbara—you don't know who built the church, do you? Barbara: You mean, you mean, ah, the architect? Dan: Yeah. Barbara: No, I don't off hand. Dan: Yeah, Father Pelligrini was the first Pastor. Barhara: The first Pastor, and remained so until 1951, I believe. He was the one and only man and the Italian community used to, ah, hear Mass with him as Pastor down in the basement of St. Mary’s on Court Street until our church was finished—completed—but there was, way back, we used to have what they call the August 15th celebration, which for St. Mary’s, which was a fundraising thing. It was known throughout the Southern Tier. Dan: You mean the Bazaar? Barbara: Well, it wasn’t really so much a bazaar as it is now. Dan: It was the Feast of the Assumption. Barbara: It was a feast, but it was called a Field Day. Dan: Oh. Barbara: And it was done out and they used to have people from all over come, and fireworks and things, but it was primarily a fundraising to help complete the cost of the building. Dan: Is there any occupation in particular that the, ah, Italians indulged in more than anything else? Did they have a particular trade that they brought over with them? I mean, in other words— Barbara: You mean the Italians. Dan: The Italian community, in other words. Barbara: Most of them were contracting. Dan: Contractors. Barbara: Must have been the majority of them were contractors—that was what they knew best. Dan: Yeah, it seemed to be that barbering was quite a popular trade too in Italy, because a lot of the barbers that I know and acquainted with have all been Italians. Barbara: There were probably a lot of cities like, you know, they learned that trade, of course there’s a lot of roadways in Italy and they were good at it. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Barbara: As a matter of fact, like, ah, Dad’s uncle and his dad were, ah, worked on the Amulfi Drive in Italy, which is famous now. Dan: Where is that? Is that in Salerno? Barbara: It runs along the, along the coast of Italy. Sorrento all the way down, I don't know exactly where it starts—it’s below Naples somewheres it starts. Dan: I see. Barbara: And it’s all along the mountainside. Dan: I see, and you say it's famous, you say, for what particular reason? Barbara: Because of the way it’s built. Dan: Oh, I see. Barbara: It’s sheer mountainside and there isn't much room for cars to go through, especially the present day cars. If there are two cars coming, one will have to back down. Dan: In other words, it was built for a horse and buggy. Barbara: Probably, but it overlooks the ocean—you can see that. Dan: Now you spoke of an uncle—ah, how many brothers were there in the family? Barbara: Now I'm not certain of it, I thought there, ah, I thought they said there was ten brothers. Dan: Ten—large family—and were they all stonecutters? Barbara: Now are you referring to my dad's family itself, or just uncles? They started, but the uncles, his uncles. Dan: Oh, it started with his uncle, I see. Barbara: And his father. Dan: How many, how many worked on the roadway of the family, including not just brothers but also relatives of your uncle? Barbara: That I don't know. Dan: Yeah. Barbara: That goes back quite a way. Dan: But you say there was ten in your uncle’s family or your dad’s family. Barbara: My dad's father had quite a few brothers. Dan: Oh, I see, I see. Barbara: But my dad's family, there was three brothers and five sisters, and they all came, all but one, one brother, immigrated to the United States. Dan: Is that right? Barbara: And one to South America. Dan: Were they all stone masons, stonecutters? Did they all take up that same trade? Barbara: That was a trade there. Dan: Yeah, yeah. OK, well is there anything else that you can add, Barbara, looking over your notes, you might have overlooked? Barbara: This is all, like I say, just what we can remember from their talking about it at times. Dan: Now the bank was located where, ah? Barbara: Ah, at 168 Henry Street. Dan: 168 Henry, and ah, your dad's grocery store was on Fayette Street, right? Barbara: At two different locations. The final one was where he remained for forty-some years. Dan: In other words, the one that is standing now at 9 Fayette Street. Barbara: I think for the, ah, they did quite well, considering, you know, ah, you might say the handicap at first, you know—the language—but my Uncle Nick, ah, spoke English well. They were both educated, I mean, they had as far as high school in Italy. Dan: When your uncle was Knighted, that gave him a title? Barbara: Gave him a title of Cavalier, which at that time was quite something to have. Dan: Yeah, did you tell me what year that was he was Knighted, Barbara? I don't know whether I have that down here or not. Barbara: It was after World War, World War One.  Dan: WWI. Barbara : Umhm. Dan: So it was after 1918, 1919, yeah. Barbara: They had quite a banquet there for him—some of the civic leaders there, which was nice, but Uncle Nick was a great help to the, ah, as I say, the Italian community. Dan: Well that’s good, I mean when the immigrants came over, you know, and especially, you know, don't know the language, why it’s nice to have somebody they can fall back on. Barbara: Dad, during the Depression, was a great help to people, because they were in need and many, many times he, ah, would let them, you know, run up bills because they just didn't have the funds. Dan: Sure. Barbara: And people were very good—they trusted him and then they appreciated it, and ah, I have even people now that come, sometimes I meet them and they'll, you know, have a great fondness for my dad. Like I say, he helped them when they needed help, which is a sort of joy for me to hear that, you know, he is still remembered in that way. Dan: Right, right. Barbara: I think that was when he was 90, but I don’t know what else. Dan: OK, Barbara, well I certainly appreciate your taking your time out to be interviewed. Would you like me to run it back for you? Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Barbara Gallo Subject The topic of the resource Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse Description An account of the resource Barbara Gallo discusses her father's and uncle's emigration from Italy, their moves from New York City to Scranton, PA and their work as stonecutters on the Press Building and the Broome County Courthouse. Her uncle established a private bank primarily for other Italian immigrants and a steamship agency to aid immigrating Italians. She details her uncle's return to Italy and his later re-immigration to Binghamton, NY where he became politically involved with Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the New York State [Board of Regents]. He worked with Italian immigrants assisting them with voting, and was instrumental in establishing St. Mary's of the Assumption. He later retired and returned to Italy. Gallo's father established a wholesale grocery store and later took over the steamship agency. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 27 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gallo, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-24 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:15 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/56ce5f2c788fdf9d73e62f12ae496f20.mp3 3e2c53337634d51aca368e593735ba3f https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/891a8806e0849d4530d520736ae203e1.mp3 1384271b0d6df0532d82cbd51cef6b8f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Oldwine, Barbara Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55985">Interview with Barbara Oldwine</a> Subject LCSH Urban League; Planned Parenthood; Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Barbara Oldwine Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 1 March 1978 Dan: Barbara, would you tell me something about your life and working experiences in the community starting from the time of birth—OK? Barbara: I was born in the City of Binghamton at Binghamton General Hospital and the first place that I could call home was 20 Front Street, which was on the corner of Front and Riverside Drive. It would be interesting to know that the old Memorial—the Memorial Bridge that we now know in 1978 was not up then, so in order to get to the west side, you crossed Court Street Bridge. I stayed there as a girl until I moved to 24, pardon me, 41 Broad Avenue, which is in the 12th Ward. My education began at Alexander Hamilton School—kindergarten—it was Miss Manning as the principal. In Junior High I went to West Junior. I there had a half a term at Central and graduated from North High in February, 1941—we had midterm graduations at that time. I left Binghamton then and went to Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee where I earned my Bachelor’s Degree, magna cum laude. My degree was History and English and like many women at that time, I was married to a serviceman who was at many places never dreaming that we would live back in Binghamton. When it was his decision to go to school under the G.l. Bill, we moved back to Binghamton in the house of my parents at 41 Broad Avenue—stayed there until we bought the home on Gaylord Street. Following his education, my husband became associated with IBM. He was the third Black man ever hired by that corporation. My career began with the Department of Social Services ah then known as the Welfare Department. Lounsberry was the Mayor and Mr. Robinson was the Commissioner and our office then was at 71 Collier Street which is now a big City parking ramp in 1978. I worked continuously for the Social Services Department for some 32 years and it was merged with the County under the direction of Mr. Libous and Mr. Crawford. When we talk about what I faced in the community as a member of the group of Black Americans and what minority problems we might have had, it might be interesting to know that one of he first things to happen while I was a Field Worker in the Department of Social Services—an applicant recipient called the agency and decided that they did not wish to be interviewed—to participate in a cash grant—if the interviewer was going to be a Black American. Mr. Robinson informed them that the interviewer was fine, based on ability and they were needed in the program that they must be interviewed, and that ended that confrontation or that problem, handled directly by the Administration. The most difficult time Neil and I faced was a returning couple to the community needing a place to live, having made a decision to first live with parents while he was getting the Degree and Percy Rex was Rector of my church—Trinity Memorial Episcopal—corner of Oak and Main at that time and he appealed to landlords who had been people who owned property that were members of our church, to give an apartment to this young couple—returning G.I. and veteran and his wife and we wouldn’t be strangers because I had been baptized in Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church in infancy and gone to that entire church, to the church school—my husband and I had married there and it had been our first child—it had then been ah born ah baptized there but no one came forward to give us a house and that was rather scarring and very hurting. Our decision then that we would move into the Veterans’ temporary housing, which was on the McArthur Tract and these people will recall was just the old quonset hut—McArthur School is now standing there—but they were operated by the City of Binghamton and although discrimination had first been observed in Veterans' Housing ah the first group of veterans who tried to move into the housing over on the Webster Court area and I think if you would recalled one—the veterans had to pitch a tent on the Courthouse lawn—that man was John Scanks and he too had served in WWII but he had broken the barrier so when Neil and I moved into temporary housing for veterans on McArthur ah Tract, we did not face any problem at that point. Our then goal was to face sufficient money to use the G.I. Bill and get a loan and purchase a home since renting was not possible. Well it wasn’t an easy task to purchase the home—the small down payment that we had at Binghamton Savings—I'm sure the loan people or the people of the accounts there wondered what Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were doing because we kept drawing $500 out on one day and putting it back on the next. What was happening was we were taking the money in good faith when we had gone with the real estate broker to look at property to try to purchase a modest home and the owner would decide then that even though they were not going to reside in the home themselves, they were going to sell and move away, that their neighbors would not want to have a young Black American couple there and of course at that time we did not have the laws against discrimination on the books of the State of New York and this was exercised several times against Neil and I and I think I have to give credit to a man by the name of Mr. Balin, who was a real estate dealer in the locality who came upon a home which we now still occupy, that was in an Estate and we were able to purchase this modest home at 24 Gaylord Street without any difficulty and we were given the ah G.I. Loan though the Binghamton Savings Bank—Mr. ah Cornelius is the President and we faced no discrimination in getting the loan at that time. An interesting thing happened to us as we became residents of Gaylord Street, 12th Ward Bingahmton—had two small girls then—one 6 and one 4—oldest girl was Eileen, our youngest daughter was Valerie and I went to business and I had a wonderful woman, Mrs. Stringham, as my housekeeper who came each day to assist me with the children and part of her plan was to take our 4 year old at 10 o'clock in the morning—walk and entertain her and let her have fresh air and one of my neighbors across the street had a 4 year old, whose grandmother was the loving, caring person but when Mrs. Stringham would bring Valerie out to play, this other grandmother would take this other 4 year old back in and I thought badly about that because what do 4 year olds know? They probably would have just played dolls and pushed carriages and Mrs. Stringham, who was my trusted housekeeper, ah was really concerned about that because she was a white American who was helping me to care for my children and the neighbors who always took their children in, were also white Americans—but you know that soon passed ’cause the children started playing and it didn't matter how the adults felt. They transcended that misunderstanding. We've lived on Gaylord Street now approximately 20 years and I couldn’t have better neighbors or more caring people. We are doing things together now that all neighbors do—help with the snow, get cars unshoveled—particularly conscious of that in this weather, take collections when somebody dies, cook a cake when a baby is born and rejoice and those things that were so terrible for that neighborhood in 1952, when Black Americans first came, really passed. They found out that Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were going to work, make a living, mow grass, raise children, have sadness and happiness, and we've really become a strong unit on Gaylord Street and with people loving and caring about each other. Dan: Fine ah now you mentioned that when you first got married you moved in with your ah parents? Barbara: Right. Dan: And ah did they own their own home? Barbara: Yes they did. Dan: Did they have any trouble acquiring that? Barbara: Unfortunately the story about my father and mother acquiring the house on Broad Avenue ah is rather gruesome. My father and mother ah came to Binghamton in 1920 and it’s an interesting story because ah they were living in Manhattan and had to catch the Ferry and had to go to Hoboken and get on the old D.L. & W. so indeed they were immigrants. They were coming from Brunswick County, Virginia, and had worked in Manhattan but after that, placed in the mail by Mrs. Dunn—Mabel Dunn ah guess it was Mabel Dunn Eggleston, because she had been married to Dr. Eggleston who was a psychiatrist that had passed. The plan was that my parents, Mary E. and William A. Harris, would be the caretaker and housekeeper for her at 20 Front Street, because she was going to go abroad and she made an interesting plan. She would pay the way from Manhattan to Binghamton—they would work the year—they were satisfied they could stay—if they were dissatisfied, she would give them the fare back to New York and they could seek other employment. Well, needless to say, my parents came in 1920 and my dear father passed in 1973 and my mother is still alive and they made Binghamton their home. Now when he took a job with Mrs. Welden, part of your wages was to have ah quarters as caretaker but my father was an ambitious man and knew this was a satisfactory plan but you needed to have your roots and roots were acquired by property. He had come from a farm family that owned ground in Brunswick County, Bracey, Virginia, and he was able to save and he sought to purchase the house on 41 Broad Avenue approximately in the year 1931 and everybody will remember Mr. Bauman as a great real estate dealer ah Sec—located in Security Mutual and his wife—his son is now the surgeon Dr. Bauman here locally and ah he found no harm in taking my father's hard earned money that had been saved and purchased 41 Broad Avenue—but it came to the attention of my father that the neighbors in that community wrote a letter to then Mr. Benjamin F. Welden, who was the President of Sisson Brothers, Welden Company. Mrs. Eggleston had been married to Mr. Welden and they had suggested that Mr. Welden would make certain that my father would cease and desist in purchasing the property on 41 Broad Avenue. Well, of course, Mr. Welden had no such plan as my father’s earnings and conserving his savings and ah Mr. Bauman had made the arrangement as a real estate dealer so my parents then did purchase the home. Now we did have some unpleasant circumstances in that neighborhood in that ah people again didn't wish to speak, and I don't know why that was, but when WWII came by—many young men left and went to the Service. My Father was called in the draft but not assigned and people found out what a wonderful man he was because when young sons and young husbands were away, he could help women that were left alone and ah this became very very important for his role in the neighborhood as a caring, loving person. My Mother was rather in a quiet, reserved woman and her whole life was her family and her home and she had it beautiful and that’s what women cared about and they found out that she was just like they were. She did all the things—she baked cookies and she got her daughter ready for Girl Scouts and she sang on the church choir and she went to the ah church association that women went to—the Altar Guild—and ah she my mother always was an employed woman as a team with my father—just so special and so and people had to learn to understand and love people being Black and they had not understood yet—maybe it was their fault. Dan: Umum—have you found things changed now? Barbara: You know, it is rather insidious the way there is still a great deal of misunderstanding for people and people are sort of scrambling for their own rights and not really understanding that you can't have human rights for yourself if you can't have human rights for everybody. I want to talk about having my ah children come to the Public School system of the City of Binghamton. I consider that they got an excellent education because they were both equipped and prepared to go on to the University. Ah my daughters ah both became ah part of the band at North High and Eileen was a Standard Bearer for the banner that said North High Standard Bearer and my daughter Valerie played in the band and came home one day—“I'm not going to do that anymore, I'm going to do that anymore, I’m going to carry the American flag, I'm 5’9”, I’M the tallest girl”—and that gave us great pleasure to see young Black American women walking in front of the band. That only began with the generation that was represented by my daughter. You heard me talking about Mr. Scanks—his daughter Constance really opened that up at North High for young Black women to be a part of that and then ah other young women that came by ah—Kennedy family had a wonderful young daughter that was in that and Mrs. McGill had a young daughter Carmine and these young women—generation with my daughter, just broke that down that at North High. At Central, it was a little different ah Allan Cave was our President or Principal at McArthur School—his sister June was one of the first gym Black women to be ever selected to be Queen of all the students like at the Senior High level ah and that’s a breakthrough. Now sororities, good or bad—young people have them - I don't recommend them because it excludes people but you know young people make that decision and my daughter Eileen pledged for a sorority and didn’t make it and that rather broke her heart because the sorority hadn't taken young Black women in but then they came along with Valerie and Valerie became Miss New York State Teenager and every sorority wanted Valerie. So what she did, she said, “I will pledge if you pledge my sister,” and then that broke that down and then all sororities started pledging and all fraternities started pledging. That passed with children in that generation which was about the year ah let’s see our children should have been pledged in sororities ah—late ’60s and ah it’s hard to understand why young people and older people can't relate—can’t really understand what our goals are which is to be human beings, seek jobs, live a fair honest life of quality, but there is ah some insidious, insidious discrimination in this community that can 't be controlled by Law. Give you an example—my husband going to work at IBM. Now here's a man who's been in the Army 5 years and he's been away at college and he's home with one baby and he wants to start his life again—he is ah 28 years old—not a boy. In the first year he worked at International Business Machines, other than his manager and setup man, men did not say, "Good morning," or ask about the ball scores or, “how is your wife and the baby?” Now that is pretty tough for a man to go do any assignment because you’re awake there more than you are at anyplace else and the way we face this as a team because Neil’s goal at IBM was a cross to bear. Everybody wishes to be liked but his was to do a good job, receive and advance in promotion to provide for his wife and child and that took some doing because Neil, probably if he went now with the opportunities that are at the International Business Machines and their fair employment practice, he would be a manager. He was born too soon for that but it afforded a good living, and later on they began to find out what a magnificent man Cornelius Oldwine was—how well he did his job and how he was always prompt and quiet and prepared and frank—willing to help another man—a caring person and now it’s really different. Dan: Is he still working there? Barbara: Yes—he hasn't retired yet. We started to work very early ah and ah Neil’s 58 but he feels that he will continue to work perhaps until he is 60 or 62 and he, God has been good to us—we are in fine health and he is at the lab in IBM and he loves his job. Similar to my job—now I have been with Social Services ah see if I went in ’46 and this is '78, I have to have 32 years. Dan: 32 years. Barbara: And you know with the Government, after 55 years of age, you can retire but I love my job. Dan : And how old are you Barbara? Barbara: 55. Dan: 55. Barbara: And I feel well respected. Mr. SanFillipo is our current Commissioner, Mr. Dimitri was our immediate past Commissioner and I feel very well respected by the people that I work for and people who work with me and that’s and that’s a privilege. Dan: What’s your, what’s your title with the Social Sec—Social— Barbara: Social Services Department—I'm a Supervisor. Dan: Supervisor. Barbara: But in Medicaid only. Dan: Just for Medicaid? Barbara: Only. Dan: That’s right, I see. Barbara: Big assignment—right? Dan: Sorry—you’re working. Barbara: Yes. Dan: Ah, now when you first went to work there 32 years ago ah how did the ah—Do you know how Social Services began and how it has changed up to the present date, for instance what services were available? Barbara: Well in 1932, under Mr. Robinson as the Commissioner, as I said, Mr. Lounsberry our Mayor, we had all categories which is known as Old Age, Aid to the Blind, Aid to the Disabled and Aid to Dependent Children and of course now you know man—a great deal of that has been transferred and is now in the Social Security system and of course the City of Binghamton was by itself at that time—the Town of Union was alone and Broome County was alone and we had three distinct offices—three distinct commissioners all serving the areas of the County as they did divide employees and then under the direction of Mr. ah Libous, our Mayor, and Mr. Crawford, it was found more at interest of the taxpayers and the serving of the County that we should merge and come under one head and that has been for approximately the past 6 years was one Commissioner and I think they are doing that a lot in Government now, trying to get one head so’s you don’t have it divided because it’s much more economical. Dan: So in other words the funding is under the Broome County. Barbara: It’s now called the Department—the Broome County Department of Social Services rather prior to that it was City of Binghamton, Town of Union and a small section—it was just the town was under Broome County. Dan: Now are you under Federal Regulations? Barbara: Oh yes ah Medicaid is a Federally sponsored program and ah we are reimbursed ah 80% and then 20% from the County and State and some titles are 60-40, 40 you know 60-40 which amounts 20 County 20 State. You know that, you're probably working for the Action for Older Persons—you know there’s quite a bit in the ah funding. Dan: Now have you noticed any change in the attitudes of recipients in the benefits? Barbara: Well I seldom see the applicant now because what has happened is I have been promoted and I'm in administration so I work, I work more with the Social workers than the Examiners but ah the right to receive Public assistance ah the mind of some people is changing all that and I think that came about from the 1937 Social Security Act and the Social Security has moved forward and we've gotten SSI and the people have been included but interesting though ah people still wish to have their right to maintain their own lives and the integrity of being an American citizen or citizen of the United States first—you can decide for yourself and I think respect is still commanded and I wish we were doing more for the older people ah there just doesn't seem to be time and that’s why at Social Services we're so grateful for organizations as Action for Older People and Services for the Aging because we may have the fund but sometimes we don’t have enough people to give the services. Dan: I see ah now could you—I don' t know whether this is outside of your realm or not but do you know how the relocation of the people of Susquehanna Street was accomplished due to Urban Renewal? Barbara: Disaster—absolute disaster. Dan: Absolute disaster—in what respect? Barbara: In the fact that they didn't care about people and l they made promises, promises, promises which you know have never been kept. Dan: Well where have they gone? Barbara: Well fortunately some families were able to buy small modest homes but the promise that they were going to rebuild that area which held many people has never materialized, you know, Woodburn Court, what is it going to have? A few houses now for Senior Citizens and they're not going to take that. Dan: Going to have a big parking lot. Barbara: Well I guess they need that. I feel— Dan: —someplace to put the snow. Barbara: I just feel that that’s devastating and urban renewal has done that throughout this country to minority persons and poor people and I they have warehoused them and ah we haven't been responsive as citizens to people who—the house might not have met the standards for somebody who was doing urban planning but it had roots and growth and love and care and the curtains may have needed to have been mended but it was starched. It was beautiful and you could sit around and have your coffee or your tea or your cakes and where we sat people—I think we are moving over to the mausoleums—don't start me on that—I feel terrible about it. Dan: OK, I won't pursue that any further ah now I think you will agree with me Barbara, that ah we're living in a promiscuous society today with ah young couples living together without regard for marriage. Barbara: Well I think that’s the at—you know my feelings are. Dam: No. Barbara: I—“promiscuous” is your adjective. Dan: Right. Barbara: Not one I would use because that says that I'm placing a value judgment on someone else’s decision. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And one of the things that has been a tenet in my life—that I may have a standard set for Barbara Oldwine and I may wish to keep that high—then it becomes a standard that Cornelius and I set together—a family standard and I wish to transfer that and the beauty of that in the growth of my Church and the love of my community to my daughters but I have never felt that I could place a value judgment on someone else's decision so I, I totally using that adjective. Dan: You don't like that. Barbara: No I can't use—well it's all right for you, I, I would defend with my life your right to use it. Dan: Uh huh—well the only, the only reason I asked is that in such an arrangement of two people living together and one—say the girl becomes pregnant and the boy figures that “I've had enough,” and he moves out—has this had a bearing on the welfare rolls? Barbara: I think a lot of people want to think that but I don’t think that’s ah been ah documented and we just want to look at that like that and are not really willing to look at why we have increased the people that have support and assistance in our society and the reason we have increased is that we are in such a high society of technology that people would, could come to America and not speak English but could become a farmer or do the hardest labor on the railroad or become construction people and not need all this refinement—they could go ahead and build from the bootstrap. All that has disappeared and it’s I think it’s the technology of this country that it constantly, you goad the simple jobs that people could get that didn’t have a lot of training and this is why we are in a great bit of difficulty of people not being able to find work and the other thing I think that I’m not sure that people still care about people, that we are really serving, want to help. We're a society that’s always proved ourselves, that always have to have someone as an underdog on the bottom—stepping on them. We proved that when we went to Vietnam, we proved that when we had the Civil War, so I really don’t want to talk about a person's decision to share their life with another person and create a life, which is an act of God, and then decide that they can’t face that responsibility means that the welfare rolls have increased, because I don't know that, because there are women who have been left alone where this decision has been made, have gone on and done great things and provided for that young life that they created and that they decided to keep. So we don't have the statistics. Dan: You don't have the statistics? Barbara: No and we mustn't draw that out as that’s the reason. I feel the welfare rolls have increased because technology of this country has moved simple jobs out of the contact for people, you know we are not educating people to get the technological jobs—there are more people than there are jobs. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And every time you, say, put it on a printout—use it on a computer, maybe you eliminate an individual who maybe could have done a simple job. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And we're starting to warehouse people and that’s very frightening and I don't think we should base it on what the moral decision is. The fact that as human beings, we can't cast the first stone against someone else's decisions because if we had done that ah God would never have been close to Mary Magdalene. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And He loved this woman and reminded us, be without sin ourselves before we cast the first stone. But when He went to the well for the water, the woman said to Him, “Why do you ask me to fill the pitcher to serve you?” because she was different in Gentile and Jew and He didn't care. He was going to drink from the pitcher that would be sweet because it had been blessed out. Dan: Umum—now what clubs have you belonged to Barbara? Barbara: OK—I feel very privileged to say that I am a Life Member of American Association of University Women and I have served as a Secretary for that organization and then I'm proud to say I’m a member of Semper Fidelis, which was founded by Mrs. Beccye Fawcett—this is part of the National Negro Conference of Women who are original founders with Mary McCloud McLew—a beautiful woman who established Bethune-Cookman College on nothing—what an inspiration—and then ah I'm a member and ah immediate Past President of Broome County Urban League Guild, a member of the Monday Afternoon Club—that was an exciting thing. The Monday Afternoon Club was 100 years old. These beautiful women decided that all women should have a right to belong to that organization and ah you know at Monday Club, you have to be sponsored by a woman and then two women cosponsored you and Mrs. Fawcett and I were both selected and I have loved my association with these women—there is so much beauty there and of course you know our home has been listed as ah one of the outstanding architectural homes in this country—in the State—it was owned by Mr. Phelps first and there is a lot of loving, caring there for women and we do a lot of great things there. Dan: It was owned by Mr. Phelps? Barbara: Yes. Dan: Is it the banker? Barbara: I'm not quite sure. Dan: E.Z. Phelps? Barbara: I think so—that’s in the history, all right and then ah lets see. Dan: You belong to—do you still belong to Episcopal— Barbara: Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church—oh I was baptized there and now it’s really wonderful. Neil and I were married there. Our daughter Valerie was married there and we baptized her first baby there. Dan: Yeah—how many children do you have? Barbara: I have just Eileen, my oldest daughter, who is associated with the ah State Department in Washington as a Foreign Service officer. Dan: Wonderful. Barbara: Really exciting job and of course we have our daughter Valerie Oldwine Barnes who is married to John C. Barnes with their little daughter Amera and of course you know the new baby is coming any day. Dan: Yes (laughter). Barbara: We were rather delayed with this and John and Valerie are both associated with IBM as her father is. Dan: Well that’s fine. Barbara: I must tell you about Valerie—she’s 29 and she’s a manager of Finance in the Lab and I’ll tell you a little about the girls’ education, if I may. Dan: Surely. Barbara: Eileen went to Fisk University. Dan: Your Alma Mater. Barbara: My Alma Mater so that’s always very important for Mother and then she went on to go to the University of Michigan to do her Masters in Public Health Administration. Valerie chose to go to Howard University, then she went on to do her Masters at the Wharton School of Finance at University of Pennsylvania. I’d like to point out here that my daughter selected the predominantly Black University for the undergraduate program. Having been raised in Binghamton, they had not had a great deal of opportunity to associate with the peer group because our population here you know is very small—approximately now about 3000, which is a small number in the total community and both girls needed that kind of identity and we feel very fortunate that they were able to obtain that in ’59 then when they were ready to go further into their development professionally. They then sought the University that would offer the ah choice Degree for which they settled and ah we're really excited when we say Valerie finished Wharton because it is—she was one of the first 10 Black women to receive her India World honor. Dan: I see—OK she went on for further studies at Wharton. Barbara: Yes the MBA Wharton School of Finance, University of Pennsylvania and it has been a great deal to her career and ah it’s interesting to know all industry is accepting women and men and giving them promotions based on ability and that’s what this is all about. Dan: So ah in Beccye Fawcett’s mind, anyone who has the education and the opportunity, can go out and get a job—no matter what the color of his skin is today—right? Barbara: Well I guess there you know—nothing can be overall and a lot of young Black people will feel that they may get in the door and that’s a very important step, getting in the door. Now we have to worry about where they're going once they're in the door—are they going to move up? We have to acknowledge that in bib business and in finance, we don't have too many Bank Presidents yet who are Black and we don't have too many high level managers ah who are Black and this is still the goal that young Black people are trying for—ah Patricia Harris, who is in the Cabinet with ah Mr. ah Carter—she’s an exception. Vernon Jordan directs the Urban League—outstanding man now—I can’t think of the young woman that was just appointed as the Executive Director for National Planned Parenthood—but she's 34, she’s from Dayton, Ohio and she’s going to earn $7,000 a year. She was a nurse first and then got her M.Ph in Ohio. Now our young Black people are having to really strive to get promotions and move into the top level of management. We’re faced with the Backey case for admission to the ah medical schools, which is being heard by the Supreme Court, because if they're talking about reverse discrimination, Civil Rights have to look at that. I believe in preparing but they're, they're still a fuzzy area. Ah I'm not satisfied that it’s a—besides it not all to a degree for anybody anymore—one is this technology that is requiring more and more training. Why don’t, why don’t white or black interests think of the number of teachers that are just not admitted to the school districts because we don’t have the money—we're cutting down, we're consolidating Junior children. Dan: We have declining enrollment at the moment. Barbara: Right. Dan: Right—well Barbara, is there anything else that you would like to add? Barbara: Well I would like to stress that I ah feel that education and preparedness should play a great part in the lives of people but there has to be a certain amount of human understanding and we have to transcend that and have people recognize people for the working people and it’s going to be very difficult in this society for what I call the dominant part of the society which is the white American male to understand that perhaps he is going to be threatened by the Black American and by women. He has always been the Chairman of the Board—that he is going to have to move over to make room. Dan: So you're an advocacy of women’s rights. Barbara: Oh definitely. Dan: OK, I’m not going to dispute that either. (laughter). Barbara: Thank you Dan—well what do you think? Dan: Fine—do you want me to turn it off and I’ll turn—play it back for you? Barbara: Oh to hear a little bit of it, I don't need to hear it all. [PAUSE ON TAPE] Dan: Can you tell me any special honors you have received as a citizen of the community, Barbara? Barbara: Well I think the most beautiful honor I have received was at the time of the Bicentennial and I was selected by the commission to be Woman of the Year for the City of Binghamton and that meant a great deal to me because it was based on my contribution to the community as a loving, caring person and I think it was afforded to me because of my work with ah the United Way—I've been on the Board of Directors there and ah I've been on the Board of Directors for Planned Parenthood and at the present time, I'm a national Board member for the YWCA of America—have 91 women on that governing Board and reach that plateau because the women of your own community nominate you for the work you have done and my work with the “Y” here. I was the President of the Board of Directors so none of these things would have been possible for me if the people of the community hadn’t respected me and knew that we cared about each other. Dan: Thank you Barbara. Barbara: OK. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Barbara Oldwine Subject The topic of the resource Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association Description An account of the resource Barbara Oldwine talks about her life in Binghamton, NY beginning with her childhood, her education at Fisk University, and her position with the Department of Social Services. She discusses her working experiences, the merger of welfare facilities, and her husband's experience at IBM. She discusses her views on racial discrimination in education and work fields, as well as the discrimination her family was subjected to. She discusses her community activity, such as the Urban League, American Association of University Women, Planned Parenthood and the YWCA. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 45A ; Recording 45B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Oldwine, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/25821fb6fe0c54b12f91d2f50edecd42.mp3 49f89e172981d85d2df3779883f51659 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed English, Charles Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-28 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:08 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55901">Interview with Charles English</a> Subject LCSH English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Charles English Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 28 April 1978 Dan: Charlie, would you start out giving me your life and working experiences in the community, ah, starting with your date and place of birth? Charlie: Well, I was born, ah, July 18, 1930 in Binghamton and, ah, ah, my father was E.C. English. My mother's name was, ah, Edna L. Zimmerman, maiden name—she was from Johnson City. Ah, I was brought up in Windsor and lived here more or less all my life except for the time I was in the service of the United States during the Korean War and, ah, my two jaunts at college—ah, I attended, ah, Harpur College after graduation from Windsor High School—graduated from Harpur in 1952 with an A.B. in Foreign Languages—Spanish, ah, was the Major—and shortly thereafter, of course, was drafted into the Army and, ah, was led to believe that I was going to be a Spanish interpreter, and you know how that goes. (laughter). Ah, ended up being an Infantryman—sent to Korea with a bunch of, ah, Puerto Rico soldiers at the time—my only interpreting was, ah, trying to translate orders from the American officers of these Puerto Ricans. Well after, ah, in Korea, I ended up in, ah, the Signal Corps and worked in the troop information and education and ah, ah, raising the, ah, educational level of soldiers after, when the war ended and we came back to the United States. My dad and I had a conference about the drugstore, ah, and I decided that I would go back to Pharmacy School, so we went four years to Albany Pharmacy and, ah, had our B.S. Degree in 1959, so I'm now the third generation of the pharmacists here in the English family in Windsor, and I believe probably we're the oldest, ah, pharmacy, ah, being in one family in Broome County. Dan: When was it first established, Charlie? Charlie: My grandfather took it over in April of 1900 and, ah, the same pharmacy had been operated prior to him by, ah, Dusenberry and Lyons for a few years, and prior to them, ah, by a man named T.V. Furman, who ah, also was a prominent local official, ah, politician, and ah, I don't know but what I remember, a Board, ah, member of the Board of Supervisors of Broome County, and I understand Mr. Furman, ah, went into business as a result of buying out Dr. A.B. Stillson. Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Doc Stillson's father. Dan: Um. Charlie: Doc. Stillson's. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: So, ah, it's been in the same locale—the drugstore’s been in the same location for about a hundred years and, ah, 78 of those years now in our family. Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Ah, then ah, along with this, ah, we, we bought the building—joint owners—Marine Midland Bank and myself (laughter), and ah, we rent out two apartments upstairs and we rent out another section on the ground level to, ah, the Government, for it's been a Windsor Post Office in that location for as long as I can remember. Matter of fact, ah, I guess that was the location of the Post Office way back in the 1830s—before that building existed it was still in the same spot, so ah, we haven’t changed too much. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: Ah then, ah, ah, I, ’cause, ah, I live here, ah, in what you call the Hotchkiss House or Old Stone House—I guess it’s the only stone house in Broome County, ah, to my knowledge. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And this was built sometime between 1823 and 1825 by a man named Stiles Hotchkiss. His grandfather, David, is an original pioneer for the, ah—let a tract of land here in the village of Windsor, that he received, ah, from the Government, and he came here in about 1789 and settled on this tract. He divided some of the tract up among his, ah, six or more sons—I forget how many right off hand, and of course they in turn subdivided among their sons. David Hotchkiss was, ah, credited with, ah, being the person who designed the Village of Windsor—laid out the streets, ah, much as they are today. Main Street, Chapel Street, Grove are all part of his original plan and, ah, also he's a founder of the local Presbyterian church, incidentally, the same Presbyterian church that's here today. He, his family also you might credit with the, ah, one of the families who helped found the first, ah, public school here in Windsor also. Well this stone house, incidentally, was originally built for the purpose of being a distillery, and up in back here they have a series of three falls on what is now known as Hotchkiss Creek—originally the Hotchkiss family called it Falls Creek. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And they had a mill over, ah, near the Village, ah, constructed by, ah, M. Raphael Hotchkiss, Stiles's father, and about 1825 they moved that, ah, mill over here and built here on the creek and, ah, well, according to the 1885 Broome County Histories on the purest whiskey, ah, known to man, was manufactured here, and sometime or another after that, the family did move into the house and used it jointly as both the business and as a residence. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: The house is, ah, I guess what you call typical, ah, Federal period. There's two or three houses around town here that were built by, built by the Hotchkiss family. All of them, although this one is stone, there is another house down on the corner of Kent and Main, which is a wood clapboard house built on the same style, and they were copied after patterns in the Hotchkiss family up in Connecticut. Dan: Uh huh, very interesting. Now, ah, Charlie, how did you get started in your special interest here—your Civil War memorabilia? Charlie: Well, ah, I guess probably that results from, ah, joining the American Legion, ah. L remember, ah, when I got home from Korea in '54, ah, I been traveling for off and on, I guess about 3 weeks before I finally was able to get from the west coast to east coast due to, ah, storms and poor airplanes, as a matter of fact. When I got home, why, I went to a local barber—had a haircut, and ah, right then and there he talked me into joining the Legion, and ah, the following Memorial Day—some of the World War I vets, who for years had gone around and put flags out on the veterans’ graves all on, asked some of us newer, ah, Legionnaires if we'd go along and assist. In a sense, that was a mistake, because that first year started me on a project I've been doing every year since 1954, but we’d go around to, ah, a lot of the cemeteries here in Windsor, of which I believe there are 17 and with the exception of about 4 or 5, all of them are so-called abandoned cemeteries the town takes care of. Ah, they, ah, tombstones of some of the old Civil War veterans were beginning to fade away and became hard to read, so I became interested in, ah, making a record, and I did visit each cemetery and start copying down these names. Ended up, though, before I got done, I compiled a list of all the war veterans in the town of Windsor from the American Revolution through Korea—I haven't tackled the Vietnam era yet—and, ah, ah, then I began to do a little research on the men because I couldn't help but notice that a goodly number of the men in the Civil War, for example, either belonged to the 137th New York Volunteers, the 89th New York Volunteers, the 29th Infantry, or the 16th Independent Battery, which made me, ah, come to the realization they must have joined as a unit. Then, ah, began the historical research, and ah, the interest continually, ah, snowballed of course. The Museum, I guess, started because I decided I needed a few artifacts that maybe some of the men carried, and as a result we've gone from, ah, a couple of muskets, which I originally purchased, to, ah, the 45 by 40 building we have now to have our museum. Dan: Uh huh—how many muskets do you have now? Charlie: Well, I— Dan: Just guessing, I mean, you don't have to be exact. Charlie: I don't know—probably, ah, oh, 50 or 60 or more. Dan: Yeah—so in other words, it's been within the last 24-year period that you have accumulated this? Charlie: Yes, and another thing, too, about it is that, ah, a lot of people—of course, ah, the collection here, ah, due to inflation and so on and so forth, has become quite valuable. Where you used to be able to pick up a Civil War musket maybe for $25, it's at least ten times that now. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And ah, I can't stress the point, ah, any stronger than that. Ah, yes, it does have monetary value, but that's not my interest—my interest is its historical value. Dan: Right. Charlie: I, ah, just like so many others I'm a temporary, ah, caretaker of these artifacts, and ah, after me, who knows who the next caretaker will be? But over there is a French and Indian War Brown Vest musket, for example, manufactured about 1765, and incidentally it has a Dublin Castle marking on it. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: Of interest to you people of Irish Descent (laughter), but I do know that musket was used in the French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, probably the War of 1812. It was converted from percussion, from flint to percussion, about 1840, judging from the age of the hammer, and ah, it's been here in Windsor for I don't know how many years and, ah, here it is, ah, well over 200 years old, and like I say, ah, it probably had six generations of temporary caretakers. Dan: That's terrific, that's terrific. Would you, would you, ah, hazard a guess as far as your—the monetary value today of your full collection here? Charlie: Well, I really can't. Dan: Have you counted it at all? Charlie: I probably could determine it. Dan: Just roughly. Charlie: Well, of course another thing—I don't usually divulge, ah, ah, the general public what I think it might be worth—for insurance purposes, let us say that, ah, it's insured for approximately $60,000. Dan: Is that right? It’s, it's wonderful. I was, I'm sure everybody that comes through here is very impressed with the extensive collection—I've never seen anything like it before. Charlie: Well, from—there, again from the historical standpoint, ah, we do receive visitors from ah, ah, many areas that come through here that have heard about it, ah, fact, ah, here's a communication from, ah, a gentleman that is affiliated with the House of Commons of Canada, in Canada, who happens to be, like myself, a Civil War nut—he was an over-the-weekend guest with us here a couple of weeks ago, and it's surprising, here's a gentleman from Canada who, ah, knows all about Windsor, NY. He's related to the McClure's, who of course took part in the Clinton-Sullivan expedition, and ah, ah, early settlers over here just, ah, three miles up the road. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: Revolutionary War veteran. We have people from, ah, Virginia visit us frequently—ah, this house, in the year 1828 a man by name of Jed Hotchkiss was born, of which we have a picture or two here on the wall. Jed Hotchkiss, ah, went to his, ah, went to school here in Windsor and graduated from Virginia Academy—the one which his folks helped, ah, found, and after graduation he, ah, became a school teacher. He didn't need a college education in those day's—a High School certificate. To make a long story short, he ended up being, ah, in, a Founder of a boys’ academy at Mossy Creek, Virginia, along with a gentleman who had been one of his professors here at school, and he also, ah, ah, started another boys’ academy down there, down there near Churchville, ah, which he called Lock Willow, of which there are some pictures in the Library of Congress and the University of Virginia. Civil War broke out and his boys all enlisted in the Confederate Army and, ah, Jed Hotchkiss himself was approached by, ah, the Southern forces, ah, ah, to join them. His hobby had been for years mapmaking—his whole family around Windsor here had been surveyors and mapmakers, and some of the original roads and so on are laid out by members of his family. He did join the Confederate Army, and ah, shortly thereafter he, ah, joined them, as a civilian incidentally, ah, he was assigned and worked with Stonewall Jackson, and most of his life in service, ah, with the Confederate Officers who, ah, defended the Shenandoah Valley and, ah, he became a close personal friend of General Robert E. Lee, General Jubal Early, so on and so forth, and ah, I guess you might also say he became the unofficial, ah, Historian of Virginia, ah, ah, part in the Civil War. After the War he wrote the volume for the Confederate history on the State of Virginia and also collaborated with several other Confederate Officers who wrote histories on that, but the fact is he was born here in this house like I say in 1828, and some of his avid fans from Virginia have to make a trip up here now and then, you know, to check out his birthplace. Dan: Uh huh. Now according to the, ah, information here about the architectural aspects of your home, it was also listed as an Underground Railroad, at one time. Charlie: That's true, that's true. Dan: Do you have any particulars on that at all? Charlie: They have been unable to determine who owned the house at the time the Underground Railway was here, ah, I don't know if the Hotchkiss family still owned it or not. There is no question that there was a tunnel in our cellar—the rear of the, ah, house is a, ah, laid stone entryway with a hewn beam for a header over it, and ah, that was the entryway to the tunnel. My wife's father, who used to be a miner, is the last one that was, that I know of, that was in that tunnel. It was unsafe, so they strung wire across the entryway and then boarded it up. The tunnel left, ah, the rear of the house and came out someplace up here, ah, on the creek and, ah, every year or so we find indentations in our back lawn where something caved in and we have to fill it in, but as far as the particulars itself, all I've been able to gather is hearsay from some of the older residents around town. Dan: Now was this—your museum—this building here, built the same time the house was? Charlie: No, I built the museum here in 1970, and I faced it with stone in order to match the house. Dan: That was a good idea, that was a good idea, yeah. Charlie: This collection used to be in our cellar and we sort of outgrew the cellar. Dan: Umhm, yeah. Of course this represents, ah, all purchases, or do you get some donations? Charlie: Oh no, no—purchases. A lot of the items are purchased, a lot of them are donated and a few of them are on loan. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And of course we carry insurance on everything regardless of whether it's ours or what, and ah, some of—it's surprising, when I first opened the museum, there was very little in here, but on the other hand, with some of the donations, when people saw it was going to be a serious venture, then they— Dan: Then they wanted a part of it—be a part of it. Charlie: They, they contributed. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And ah, ah. Dan: What are the hours that you're open, Charlie? Charlie: Well usually, ah, since I have to be at the drugstore a good share of the time, ah, it's open mainly on weekends. Dan: Weekends. Charlie: And, ah, I advise a lot of the people who are interested in seeing it, ah, if they will contact me at the store, make an appointment, I will be glad to open it for them evenings or whenever it is convenient for both of us, but other than that I say, primarily during good weather—the weekends. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Ah, getting back to your pharmacy, ah, did you notice a, quite a change, as far as the dispensing of prescriptions from the date of your dad and your grandfather up to the present date? In other words, there wasn't the repackaged generic and, ah, packaging there is today, but you really had to mix your own drugs. Charlie: That's true, and ah, when I was a youngster, I used to help my dad and grandfather—we used to make up, ah, ah, liniment for the athletic squad at the school, you know, and it was done by hand and, ah, ah, there were very few things that were not compounded. I remember when things like achromycin and terramycin came out and what a marvelous thing it was to add a little water to a bottle, shake it up, but ah, ah, ‘course today, we have, ah, medicine you couldn't buy for any kind of money—some of it as long as ten years ago, and as granted, there isn't much compounding, but on the other hand I don't think my dad or my grandfather, either one, would be very happy with, ah, today's, ah, method of operating a pharmacy. Ah, a lot of that I blame on the government, but it's, ah, ah, there's as much paperwork or more than is the actual work that, ah, you do along the line of pharmacy, and ah, there’s a great deal of regulations that never existed even ten years ago that, ah, it may be good, I don't know, but ah, I personally feel there's too much government interference, not only in my business but everybody else—so some politician can perpetuate his job, you know. (Laughter). Dan: Right—ah, going up the road a little ways, ah, the road to Ouaquaga, are you acquainted very much with the Shaker Barn? Charlie: Yes. Dan: The Shaker Sect—how long ago were they, ah, active? Charlie: Ah, I would guess, ah, probably the latter part of, ah, the last century was their high point here in Windsor. Matter of fact this stone house, I find in some of the records, was ah, the mortgage was held by the Shakers when they were here. There's a man, I believe his name is Levi Shaw, who was a Shaker who operated a sawmill right down here, ah, near the river bridge, and ah, they all tied in together. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: Ah, the ah, Shaker Museum, incidentally, in ah, Chatham, New York, now, ah, Gary Hinman, ah, is, ah, working up there, and he's tied in a few strings that were loose here, regarding the Shaker history. Dan: Yeah, yeah—it's very interesting. Do you happen to know what the significance is of having an entrance and an exit to the Shaker Barn? Charlie: Matter of fact, I don't. Do you? (Laughter). Dan: No I don't. I saw it mentioned, you know, or ah, read about it mentioned someplace, and I just wondered what the significance was. It was probably part of their religious background, you know? Charlie: No I don't. Dan: Do you have any children, Charlie? Charlie: Oh yes, we have, ah, a boy who is eighteen, then we have a girl that is eleven and a boy that is, ah, ten. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And of course the, ah, our oldest son's out on his own, so to speak, now—he went to BOCES and learned plumbing and heating, and ah, he’s doing quite well with that. Dan: That’s, that’s a good trade. Charlie: Then, ah, my younger ones here—they're my helpers, you know, here at the museum—yeah, when we need the glass cleaned. Dan: Do you hope to get a pharmacist out of one of them? Charlie: I don't know—to tell you truthly, I'd like to discourage it. Dan: You'd like to discourage it? Charlie: Uh huh. I can't, ah, I don't care if it's pharmacy or whether it's buying a new car or what—consumerism is a big thing today, and ah, I think it's nice that, ah, people are able to buy things as economically as possible, but on the other hand I think the—not only the American workman but the, I suppose the workmanship from our friends across the seas, is terrible. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: You, yourself, probably back in 1936—if you bought a new car, it lasted you ten years or twelve years, right. Dan: They're only built to last a couple of years. Charlie: They're built to sell, period, and the same way in, ah, the ah, pharmacy business, ah, everything is aimed at consumerism, not quality. Dan: Right, right—yeah, I know my, my car is rusting out and it's only a ‘73. Charlie: Oh that’s, I, ah, I don't think I would encourage my son to be a retail pharmacist—maybe if he wanted to be a pharmacist in another field. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: There's too much competition, too much junk for sale. Dan: Right, right, it's no longer a drug store—perfect example is Eynon—call themselves Eynon Drugs and sell everything. Charlie: Yeah, true. Dan: Well, is there anything else of interest that you think you would like to add on to this, ah, interview, Charlie, before I terminate it? Charlie: Well, I can't think of any. Dan: What clubs do you belong to? Charlie: Oh gee, let's see. I'm trying to get out of things instead of get in them, ah, always like that. I've been a member of the American Legion, member of Chamber of Commerce here, ah, I ah, worked with the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, in fact, I'm on the, presently on a Boy Scout committee here. I guess at one time or another I belonged to almost every organization we've had in town. Church groups, ah, and Civic and, ah, now they do have the museum. I try to, ah, spend a little more time here and a little less time out, ah, in some of the organizations, ah, and ah, along of course, Fire Company, and ah I'm still a part-time policeman here, we have a— Dan: Oh, are you helping out John Gray? Charlie: Yeah, I do that, and ah, ah, ‘course I've been Town Clerk, too, for—I've been in the Town Clerk's office, so to speak, as a Deputy or Town Clerk for 25 years now. That takes a little time also. Dan: Yes, yes. Charlie: So I limit my outside activities. I really enjoy the museum and, ah, especially the Civil War part and the part that Broome County men played, and ah, I can completely lose all my problems or cares I might then, I have had during the day by getting involved in this business of Broome County History. Dan: It’s wonderful, that's great, yeah. Well, I certainly appreciate your taking the time off, Charlie, to permit me to come up and interview you. Charlie: By the way, I was just going to mention it—we were talking a little while ago about, ah, the immigrants idea and so on, so forth, established here, and this is a tidbit of Civil War history you might not know. You know where the IBM homestead is now? Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Well, that belonged to my great-grandfather Eli Crocker. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: OK, that was his farm. Now the fellow he sold it to is the one that, ah, apparently bought the—sold the land to IBM for their Country Club, because Eli never got a thing out of it—my grandmother was born down that way. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: And, ah, if you recall, a couple of years ago Tom Cawley had an article in his column in the Binghamton Press here, the tree that was cut for the keel of the Monitor—that, ah, in the Battle of the Monitor and the Merrimac, came from this area. Well it was Eli's farm that shipped that lumber up the canal down the Hudson River to Brooklyn Navy Yard, you know, when the keel of the Monitor, but ah. Dan: Very interesting. Charlie: I just thought that was a little, little sidelight from there. Dan: Yeah that's great, great—those little sidelights you don't find in history books. Charlie: Eli, incidentally, you know he joined the 8th Regiment in Broome County, and he had a manservant, negro—you know, wasn't a slave, manservant. OK—they called him Old Bay Tom, and, ah, funny part of it was, Old Bay Tom enlisted too, and I have a picture of him over here in his Civil War uniform, Negro. I don't know what Regiment he belonged to, I've never been able to find out—that was never in the Family Bible or anything, right—I imagine probably the 54th Massachusetts—that was one of the first Negro Regiments, but ah, one ironic thing about Old Bay Tom was, after he came back to the Binghamton area, he ran for Mayor of Binghamton. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: He knew that he didn't have a chance of winning, you know, but ah, just the idea of, probably, it was the first case of a, of a negro, ah, taking a step forward, asserting himself, trying to get in something that was, ah, a white man's haven, you know, and he drew a lot of votes, believe it or not. Dan: You don't recall what year that was, do you? Charlie: I did know, but I can't recall right now. Fact, I think there is a painting of this gentleman either down at the Courthouse or down at Roberson Memorial now. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: But very few people knew that he was a candidate for Mayor of Binghamton, I guess in the 1870s. Dan: 1870s—that’s great. Charlie: But, ah, we got a couple other—that picture up in the corner, incidentally, Colonel Walton Dwight—remember, heard of him? Dan: No, no. Charlie: Remember when, ah, a couple of weeks ago, they had an article about those, ah, buildings on upper Front Street? They’re falling down—they weren't fit for even the welfare families. Dan: Oh yeah—Dwight Block, you mean. Charlie: Dwight Block. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: Ah, this Walton Dwight was the Mayor of Binghamton, and that was his home up in there, see. That, oh gee, that was a fabulous place. Well, Walton Dwight originally came from Windsor, West Windsor, and he wanted to become an Officer in the Union Army, and ah, of course they appointed a lot of their Officers, right. So he applied to New York State, but they wouldn't give him a Regiment so he went down here below Great Bend, in Pennsylvania, and they—he went into the lumber business. Well, it ended up that he and a whole bunch of lumberjacks signed up to get in and they got a Commission off of Governor Curtin in Pennsylvania, and they went in as the 2nd Pennsylvania Bucktails. Mr. Dwight, ah, became, ah, almost an instant hero ‘cause shortly after he, ah, became an Officer, he got involved in the Battle of Gettysburg and he got shot in the arm on the first day of the Battle—so naturally he goes to the hospital and all this, and he comes back, wounded hero in the Battle of Gettysburg, big thing, he comes back to the Binghamton area and they have the parades and everything and parade him around, what a wonderful fellow he is, you know, and sooner or later, ah, he got talked into running for Mayor and he became the Mayor of Binghamton. According, there again, to some history books, ah, while he was Mayor of Binghamton he ran into a number of financial difficulties—some of it was public money and, ah, but the big thing he did when he was Mayor of Binghamton—it seemed the Great Chicago Fire occurred during his term. He's very famous for the amount of money he was able to raise in Binghamton to send to the fire victims out in Chicago. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: Umhm. Dan: That’s very interesting, and now the Dwight Block, they're thinking about tearing that down—moving all the tenants out of it. Charlie: That's right, and that was his, that was a very prominent place in Binghamton history at one time. Dan: Well, Charlie, can I play this back for you? Charlie : Sure. Dan: OK. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Charles English Subject The topic of the resource English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk Description An account of the resource Charles English discusses his upbringing in Windsor, NY, graduating from Harpur College, and serving in the Korean War. He worked as a third-generation family pharmacist and served as the Windsor Town Clerk. He discusses the Hotchkiss home and this family's involvement in the founding of Windsor and their contributions during the Civil War. He expresses his deep knowledge of the Civil War, detailing the museum he operates and its Civil War artifacts. He discusses his grandfather, Eli Crocker, who, along with his manservant, enlisted in the Civil War. After his discharge, Crocker's manservant, ran unsuccessfully, for Mayor of the City of Binghamton, NY. He also mentions that his house was used as an underground railroad stop. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 19 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource English, Charles ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-28 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:08 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/600a1e85c69a527c1c0afe6b6c3e812f.mp3 86f7bca1c9b7fb3660e28cf5af15bd6a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Celeste, Daniel Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-11 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:12 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55880">Interview with Daniel Celeste</a> Subject LCSH Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Daniel Celeste Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 11 April 1978 Dan O’Neil: OK, Danny, if you will tell me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting from where you were born. Daniel Celeste: Where I born, I born in Faeto, it’s in the town of Faeto, Province of Foggio–that’s the province of the, like the state, like you say, the— O’Neil: In Italy. Celeste: Yeah, in Italy, and then we—Dad came here because he was here before, and ah, he brought me and my brother with him. We emigrate then from Faeto to Naples, and from Naples we come right into United States. O’Neil: What year was that, Danny? Celeste: 19—1908. O’Neil: 1908. Celeste: 1908, and we came to Binghamton. We had some relatives here—some cousins and relations, so Dad went, ah, laboring around whatever, he got a job and I went to school for a couple of months that, that year, and then I went, we went on, ah, on, ah, construction work, and took me along with him and I was waterboy there. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And ah, in Fabius—Fabius, NY, that’s where we—first job, ah, I really worked, and ah, we lived in a shanty, was in the camp, you know what I mean, about a couple hundred people that were in there—Christ, camping outside—and Dad didn’t want to stay in the shanty. We built a little setup there under the tree and, ah, we slept outside. (Laughter.) Well, then as I’d grow older I would come back, and, and he used to take me down to Pennsylvania and he used to work in the mine in the wintertime, had some cousins there, and ah, I used to go to school—I’d go to school for a couple of months of the winter, and ah, in the spring we’d come do the same thing, go construction work, and I was waterboy. Finally I got a job as in a transfer, trucking, freight, things like that. I stayed home with—we lived on Henry Street, we came on Henry Street and, ah, I then went to work in the freighthouse, and trucking, that’s about, oh, about two years I work in the freighthouse. O’Neil: What freighthouse, Danny? Celeste: The Lackawanna. O’Neil: The Lackawanna. Celeste: Yeah, Lackawanna Transfer, they used to call it. Transfer, Lackawanna Transfer, and ah, from there I went to the, I went to Dunn McCarthy. I got a job in Dunn McCarthy and worked there for a little while, 1914, 1915. I went away for a little time—I went to Chicago—I spent six months there, stayed with a friend of mine. I couldn’t get a job then, then hard times, them days. Came back home, I got a job in a shoe factory afterwards, ah. O’Neil: E.J. [Endicott Johnson]? Celeste: No, not E.J. O’Neil: Dunn McCarthy. Celeste: Dunn McCarthy. I worked there for about a year, then I went to E.J.’s, got a job in E.J.’s. Then 19—late 1915, I joined the Battery C, National Guard. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: The following year we got called in the service and went to the Mexican border in 19—1916, and ah, after we come back from the border, we were home for about three or four months, then the War was declared. O’Neil: This was the First World War. Celeste: First World War. Then we went on active service in ’17, May ’17. ‘18 we come home, we got home in March, March 12 from overseas duty. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: After I come home from service, I started the restaurant in, ah, I think it was in June—I opened up that restaurant Henry Street and I spent the rest of my life in the restaurant business. O’Neil: Now this, what year was it you started up in, ah—? Celeste: 1919. O’Neil: 1919, OK. Celeste: 1919. Then of course we didn’t have no license them days, you know—just the restaurant, but we did bootlegging at first—(laughter)—sold a little wine, a little whiskey. O’Neil: Did you make your own wine, Danny? Celeste: Yeah—oh God, yeah. O’Neil: Was it the “Dago red” wine? Celeste: “Dago red,” what they called “Dago red.” One year I made 100, 107 barrels of wine. O’Neil: Is that right? Where did you get the grapes for all that? Celeste: California. O’Neil: California. Celeste: A fella used to, John Morelli, used to bring it in from California, and he was a cousin of mine so I made all this wine, and a short time later, got it made—I put a little here, a little there. They raid me—they took about thirty barrels away from me but I got a lot more left. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: So I followed up that business and stayed right in the business—when the License came back, why, ah, I got the restaurant and liquor license and beer license and got in the right business and was there until 1919-1960 when the State bought Henry Street out, you know, to put that overhead. O’Neil: Yeah, right, Brandywine. Celeste: Bought part of Henry Street and they had to take me down. O’Neil: Right, right. Celeste: Goddamn thing, my, my poor wife got sick over it. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Then she, ah, we were doing good business. O’Neil: Oh, you did a fine business down there. Celeste: Did a good business down there, and I had the whole family—my daughter was married and living upstairs and we live on the second floor—had all the accommodations we want and we lived fine and, ah, no complaint. Came here on Court Street—we bought the place and remodeled. O’Neil: What was it called then, Danny? The place on Court Street? Celeste: What was it called? O’Neil: Yeah, was there a restaurant there before? Celeste: It was a grocery store. O’Neil: Oh, a grocery store. Celeste: It was Buck’s Grocery. O’Neil: Oh, Buck’s—-yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Celeste: And then, ah, so we torn down everything inside and built it up new and everything. I put in over $100,000 in the goddamn place. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Why, I wanted to buy my son-in-law a liquor store, but he liked the restaurant business. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: That’s bad today, like the restaurant business. That’s all right—the hell, one thing is as good as the other. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: He liked the work and poor Bill had to get sick. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Of course when Bill give up and I stayed a little while myself—I couldn’t take care of it, know what I mean, then. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Got in trouble with my eyes and started putting me down a little bit. After my wife died in ’68, I hang around the place a little bit with other boys, you know that I—-it wasn’t just right, I didn’t feel just right. O’Neil: Right. Celeste: So when I sold the place—the first time I sold it— O’Neil: What year was that? Celeste: ’60—1960, sold the restaurant on Court Street. O’Neil: ’60—1960. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: OK. Celeste: And, ah, 1960, and then I stood around town—didn’t do too much. I used to hang around the restaurant, help Jim—-I can’t think of his last name now. Was Jim—oh God almighty, Jim, Jim— O’Neil: No matter. Celeste: Just ah, well, he spent, Jim spent about three years in there then and left his son in there, and his son run the business himself and then, ah, somebody else took it over then there. O’Neil: Was that LaMonica? Celeste: Jim—no, not LaMonica. He’s from Endicott. Jim, ah, Capullo, Jim Capullo. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: And he’s in there for about three or four years, and boy did and then they run the place down—then they sold it. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: And, ah, get started again, and that’s the end of it for me. That’s when these other guys come in, laid around and operated a Greek restaurant. O’Neil: The Retsina now. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Now when did you—now from the time that you were—your place was torn down on Henry Street, didn’t you go to the Community Lounge? Celeste: Yeah, yeah. O’Neil: What year, what year did you go there? Celeste: Oh, I had still run on Henry Street at the time. O’Neil: Oh, you still had the place on Henry Street. Celeste: Yeah, yeah, I went in there with Bill Viglione. Remember Bill? O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah— O’Neil: What year was that, Danny? Celeste: ’47. O’Neil: ’47. Celeste: I just spent a couple of years there—I didn’t stay there. I went back to Henry Street there, came back to Henry Street and stayed there until after we sold—changed over then, you know. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: ’47 or ’48, ’49, I forgot who, then somebody else went in there—well, they operated, anyway. O’Neil: Now, who was the prior owner of the Community—he had an Irish name—what was his name? You took it over from him—he died, do you remember his name? Celeste: Just can’t think of his name now. His brother used to run the place on Water Street. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: Remember those places—one on Chenango Street, used to run—took Yannuzzi’s place? O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Oh God, I forget. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Quite a nice fellow. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Yeah, we took it from this fella—I can’t think of his name now. O’Neil: Why did you, why did you leave the Community, ah, Danny? Celeste: I, ah, I didn’t like too much confusement with, with other confusement. O’Neil: Yeah. When you were working there, did Liberace, was he—did he come? Celeste: Oh yes, yes, Liberace played there. Sure, sure, the Community. O’Neil: In what year was that, did you recall? Celeste: Well, I say Liberace played there in ’47, ’48. O’Neil: ’48—about a year or so after you took over. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Any other, ah, ah, big names play there in the Community that you can recall? Celeste: I can’t just, ah, geez—you remember more than I do. (Laughter.) No, I don’t, to tell you the truth—we always had a band there. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah, of course, Liberace was quite an entertainer there. O’Neil: Yeah—do you remember what he was paid a week at that time? Celeste: Oh, couldn’t have, about $100, not more than $150 a week. O’Neil: Is that right? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: He’s a multimillionaire today. Celeste: Right, yes—well, we passed it. O’Neil: Now, what were some of the main restaurants in town, Danny, during your era? What would you say were the main restaurants in town? We had quite a few of them. Celeste: Garvey’s. O’Neil: That was up on the north side. Celeste: No, Garvey’s was on Chenango Street. O’Neil: On Chenango Street, but on the north side, though, wasn’t it? Celeste: Yeah, towards the—no, not on the north side—right on the, near the bank. O’Neil: Oh, was he? Celeste: Yeah, Garvey’s and Hodge. O’Neil: Steve Hodge. Celeste: Steve Hodge—on State Street was a nice restaurant. O’Neil: Pitch’s. Celeste: Pitch’s. O’Neil: Pitch’s Oyster House. Celeste: Well, Pitch’s was on State Street, I think. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Pitch’s on State Street, yeah, I think they got State Street. O’Neil: And then they had a restaurant in the Bennett Hotel. Celeste: Oh yeah, the Bennett Hotel, they had a restaurant. O’Neil: Yeah—San Souci Grill. (Laughter.) Celeste: You tell me, you remember all those things—I should remember, but anymore. O’Neil: How old are you, Danny? Celeste: I’ll be 80 in July. O’Neil: 80 in July, OK, and how old were you when you emigrated from Italy? Celeste: I was 10 years old. O’Neil: 10 years old, uh huh, so your education is—what would you say was the highest grade that you went to? Celeste: In the third grade in Italy. O’Neil: Third grade in Italy, and over here you went to school. Celeste: I went to school about four or five months over the time. O’Neil: All the time? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Is that right? Celeste: And I went to night school later in the years, you know. I took up a little night school. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: That’s nights I went to school. O’Neil: Uh huh—now, when you started on Henry Street, ah, did you buy a building to start your restaurant? Celeste: We lease it first, but I put the business, we bought the building, in 1919 we bought the building. O’Neil: But you leased it at first. Celeste: Yeah, we leased it first—we rented from, hooo, geez—a good Irish name, too, Irish family, very nice, ah, the boy’s still walking around—Danny—I can’t think of his last name now. O’Neil: But you leased it when you came back out of service after World War I? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: After World War I, so about 1918. Celeste: 1919. O’Neil: And started in business for yourself? And you leased the building, is that right? Celeste: Oh, we used to live there. O’Neil: Oh, you used to live there. Celeste: We moved in there in 1911. O’Neil: Oh, but was it a brick building then or did you remodel it? Celeste: We remodeled the front. O’Neil: Oh, I see. Celeste: I put the—I remodeled the front. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: It was around 1930, ’31 that I remodeled the front. O’Neil: I see. Celeste: Just before, before the beer came back. O’Neil: Yeah, but from the time you opened up until the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment, why, you made your own wine, is that right? Celeste: Yeah, oh yeah, made—Christ, made all kinds of wine. (Laughter.) O’Neil: Probably made more money on the wine than you did on the spaghetti, huh? Celeste: Oh God, yes—-well was 25¢ a bottle. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: 25¢ a bottle, $1.00 a gallon. O’Neil: Uh huh. Well, they raided you when—raided you one year and took thirty barrels? Celeste: They raided me the year they took thirty barrels away from me. O’Neil: Left you better than seventy barrels left, huh? Celeste: That Slocum son of a bitch—they still call him a son of a bitch. O’Neil: Slocum? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: What was he, ah— Celeste: He was, ah, squad, ah, him and, ah, a Polish fella they got—he’s still, ah, retired now. I see him once in a while. O’Neil: Yeah—it don’t matter. Celeste: Yeah, ah, Barvinchak. O’Neil: Barvinchack. Celeste: Yeah, they come in and said they just wanted to see the place, you know, just, ah— O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And, ah, they had a party upstairs—well, this was upstairs, well, you know, before had some upstairs and downstairs—ah, they come upstairs, they wanted to see what was in there, and Christ, I had a supply of beer for the night, you know, stuff, wine and things like that—said, “We’ll have to take it, you can’t drink.” They took it all with them, broke it later—I don’t know if they broke it. O’Neil: Did you make beer too? Celeste: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Christ, beer. Boy, my wife used to make beer and she made a damn good beer. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: One lady came up to me—show her how to make beer. My God, and she improved every time she made beer. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: She made a damn good brew. Very, a lot of people used to come up for that brew. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah, up to 1929-30, we had our own beer, our own wine, you know how it is. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But we got the [inaudible] back of beer, when the regular beer came back, then I took everything out—give it away, most of the stuff was left. Whatever was left I give my, “Why here, here’s a case of beer.” I didn’t want to be implicated in, ah, you know, mean, find fault for coming back and say, “He’s still bootlegging,” and things like that. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: So I started to live a very clean life from that time on—nice business. O’Neil: I know you had a real good business. Celeste: Had a nice business. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Had a good chef—couple of chefs, used to put on a good feed. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: And I helped in the kitchen lots of the time. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Used to get in the kitchen, and then after my daughter got married and my son-in-law took over, I just hanged around the place—I didn’t have much to do. O’Neil: Yeah, Yeah. Celeste: That’s how I happened to go in the Community that time. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But I was glad to get back home again. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: I had a place on Henry Street right next to the morning Sun—you know there used to be a morning Sun and used to be on the corner of State.  O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And just that building next door, there, and ah, on the second floor we had the, we had a restaurant there, had a— O’Neil: What year was this? Celeste: In 1928 or ’29. O’Neil: So you had two of them going at the same time, and ah, how long were you in that business, or how long had you retained that? Celeste: Oh, was in there—this friend of mine, John, he was quite a card player—he liked to gamble and he used to go out. Well, we broke up—we didn’t. You know, lot’s of times you came in and bought a drink and I took the money, I ring the money, “No sale.” O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And, and put the money in there, ’cause I didn’t want those people to think marked “Liquor” on the register, and John said, ah, “Why don’t you ring the—?” I say, “John,” I say, “lots of time the inspectors come in—the food inspectors, and they like to check.” I didn’t want to show what we sell because we wasn’t supposed to have any beer. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But anyway, we broke up—we couldn’t get along no more—I couldn’t trust him no more, he didn’t trust me, and I, I had to quit. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: When a person don’t trust me, I don’t like to be involved, to think that I was gypping him and other things. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Finally applied for—used to work up up at the tax office in the city—it’ll come to me sometime when I don’t want to— O’Neil: Hennessy. Celeste: Not Hennessy, no. O’Neil: Sheehan. Celeste: Ah— O’Neil: What awards have you had in—had any awards at all, Danny? Militarily or in the restaurant business or anything like that? Celeste: No, no. O’Neil: Any clubs you belong to? Celeste: Oh, I belong to the Eagles, belong to the Elks for quite, ah—joined, belonged to the Eagles, the Moose them days—I used to join them and get acquainted with the people. O’Neil: Right. Celeste: Used to go down to the Veterans’ Clubs, you know, VFW and Legion. O’Neil: Uh huh—were you pretty active in the Legion affairs? Celeste: I was very active, yeah. O’Neil: Uh huh, did you hold any offices in the Legion? Celeste: No no, was a Sergeant in the Drum Corps and that’s all when it first started, and then, ah, I done a lot of work that I should have done that I used to go to the Legion a lot. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: Help the Legion out that way. O’Neil: Is there anything else of interest, Danny, you would like to tell me? Can you think of anything else? Celeste: God, I think I’ve told you everything you wanted to know. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: You can ask me, I mean, if I can— O’Neil: Yeah. Yeah, ah, when you went into service, of course you had already been in the service—you joined up so you weren’t, you didn’t have to go through any Draft Board or anything in World War I? Celeste: No, no. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: No—was in Battery C. O’Neil: Yeah—in Battery C. Celeste: I joined them in 1915, just before 1916. Then the War broke out and they organized it—they called the guards out—they shipped us down to the Mexican border there in (McClellan trucks) and we were down there for five or six months and, ah— O’Neil: Now the Retsina building—you still own it, don’t you now, Danny? Celeste: Yeah, I still own it. O’Neil: So you just lease it to the— Celeste: Lease it. O’Neil: And it’s a Greek restaurant, I guess, now. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I got that parking lot over on the corner of Pine and Carroll Street. O’Neil: Oh, do you lease that out to Dietzsch, Dietzsch Pontiac and Cadillac? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: That’s good, that’s good. Celeste: Yeah, I want to sell it. I got a little mortgage still going on, but I want to sell the restaurant—get rid of it. O’Neil: Yeah—Giant made you any offer or anything else, or are they interested at all? Celeste: Well, I don’t think those boys there got any money. I don’t know who’s backing them up, but, ah— O’Neil: Well, they’ve got a lot of money. (Laughter.) Celeste: Think so. I hope so, I hope so. O’Neil: ’Course, there’s quite a bit of property between you—well, not an awful lot—not an awful lot. Celeste: I think someday that, that corner will be torn down for a little hotel. You know, that’s a fine sport for a little hotel right in center part of the city. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I wish somebody would start it and promote, I mean, I’m not in the real estate business, but I mean, I can see a hotel on that corner better than I can see where the hell, down out of the way where transient is, not, you know, I mean, like on Water Street, where the ah—what’s the hotel there on—the big hotel they got? O’Neil: You mean the Treadway? Celeste: Yeah, the Treadway. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: That’s out the way and you can’t even see it. Here’s one in the center of the city where traffic, transient business all, all the way around. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I think that it’d make a swell spot for a hotel. O’Neil: OK, and what church do you belong to, Danny? Still belong to— Celeste: St. Mary’s Church. O’Neil: St. Mary’s—still go there. Yeah, OK, well if there isn’t anything else that you can think of, Danny, why— Celeste: Just ask me. O’Neil: Well, we’ll terminate it on this note. Celeste: Anything, anything that you like to. O’Neil: Well, I think we’ve covered everything that I, we want to—I mean, I can think to ask you. you’ve been in the restaurant business all your life and been very successful at it. You retired in what year? Celeste: ’60, ’69—1970. O’Neil: 1970, OK, well would you like me to play it back for you, Danny? Celeste: (Laughter.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Daniel Celeste Subject The topic of the resource Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building Description An account of the resource Dan Celeste talks about his emigration from Italy at age ten, his various jobs before joining the National Guard, and opening a restaurant in post-WWI Binghamton. He discusses raids and difficulty with business during the depression and prohibition age, then his acquisition of the Community Lounge in the Security Mutual Building. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-11 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Celeste, Daniel ; O'Neil, Dan Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:12 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/07c4c8a4b1609520e55c0cfb6abe7a74.mp3 53eb0d9ce9b50b064ba89b7340c5a939 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cinotti, Dominick Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-06-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55889">Interview with Dominick Cinotti</a> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:24 Minutes Subject LCSH Endicott Johnson Corporation Housing Program; Cinotti, Dominick -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dominick Cinotti Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 8 June 1978 Nettie: Dominick, will you give me some recollections of Endicott, please? Dominick: Well, I can start with my grandfather when he had first come here the first time—and ah—two of his older boys, my father and my Uncle Dan—ah—they usually came to pay some debt off—you know—in the old country or to make things better for 'em at the time, and ah— When they got here, my grandfather was always telling stories about how they had to, ah—get from one section to another and depend on the railroad, you know, to get them there, either by hand cars or hop rides. Most of the time—[chimes ring]—they’re these, they were what they call section hands—like, between Apalachin, Vestal and into Lestershire where it crossed the Susquehanna River—time, most of this was done, as I say, with a hand car. If they had to get up there, usually on Sundays for Mass, they would start either from Apalachin or Vestal all the way to Lestershire on Main Street, Johnson City, ah—St. James Church—is the one—was the only Catholic church around, I guess, at the time, outside of Binghamton, and ah—they would go back and forth and there was stories, like sometimes, if they happen to walk the rails there and there were two fast freights or whatever coming through—they would have to stand sideways and just about be blown off the track and miss. That's one of his favorite stories, and how he could’ve gotten killed—and ah—there was quite a few accidents that way there—you know—you never watch them because when the trains would pile down on you. I remember—well, something that just came to my mind now, like our Oak Hill Ave. crossing was very dangerous—with the same effect there—cars were becoming numerous, and there was—later on they had watchman going on there—and ah—then there was quite a few accidents—you know—just by these darn crossings at the time, which was another thing—at the, say—ah—like they had to get from different places, and they spent time on the Lehigh railroad, which was another one between Owego, Newark Valley and Ithaca, and this Ithaca, there was a small town they would call Caroline—I guess it's still there today, outside, it’s between Richford and Ithaca—I guess, when you get off that area—there's been stories of these railroads—this is long before Endicott even existed, I guess, you know, a few years. It might’ve been a trip back to the old country that they would come back, because I guess they would try and the money ran out and they would try and get and make a life for themselves. So, with the two boys when they got interested in this and that. I remember my grandfather working on Washington Ave., and I mentioned the casino, I think, there they used to—call was put out by the, what they called “The Binghamton Railway Company” at one time, and they did this so they could get people to ride the trolley cars, which was another fascinating thing, you know, trolleys between Binghamton and all the way down to Ideal Park. Everything—you know at the time—there, before Endicott Johnson there, they had a pavilion that I could remember. The funny thing about these pavilion attractions, they had mirrors that would be squatty or elongated—I guess every kid in the Endicott area would remember this stuff. Well, going back to my grandfather, and my uncle and my father, when they first started to build Washington Avenue, it started from scratch—which was meadowland—and then they put that street in—originally Washington Avenue, the business section was supposed to be McKinley Ave.—this is why McKinley Ave. is wider than any other streets—coming through there, and this, the trolley tracks were supposed to come up to the North Side—believe or not—over that viaduct they had there—it was the only viaduct, I just remember that—so they did put the business district more to the west than it happened to be—ah—Washington Ave.—they ran that spur right down Washington Ave.—trolley spur would go all the way into McKinley Ave., and that was it. About that time is where, this was where IBM or the original Bundy was being built then—my uncle, I remember one of them, was running wheelbarrows up the second floor and up to the sections there, just loaded down—where they could just put that concrete up—it was all done by hand at the time—this is the way he always mentioned, you know, about working on these darn planks—a lot of people—just a lot of wheelbarrows would just hurl down—because they couldn't make it, and this is the original IBM—if you say, this is a little off the corner—wasn't really on North Street, just a little further in—then across, where the Laboratory is now, in the building there, there was a Peerless Dairy—I guess at the time—that, I guess most of the kids could remember that part of that burned down at one time, and then along North St., I remember, there was a old garage, they used to fix cars there in that section—but that is all changed now. In fact, I'd say—Endicott today, if it ever got any bigger there I'd wouldn't like it—I don't think, most of the natives don't. It's getting to be like a city—traffic—whole Triple Cities area. More people are finding it's a good way of life here, especially the New York City people. In fact, I think I'm responsible for a couple of doctors moving in this area. My brother gave me a call from Georgetown, once, right before graduation. There was a white doctor, so as to speak—reason I say “white,” because Wilson Memorial was getting all these foreign, Indians, and—not Koreans, but in that Filipino like the rest of these two—come up and intern so—ah—Ernie called me up one afternoon, he said, "Show them the Triple Cities," which I did, you know—and he liked it. He was from Staten Island—he had a child—and his wife was ready for another one, I guess, and he was graduating and he took one look at this area, from Staten Island, you know, he liked it very much. He's a prominent doctor—physician, in fact he went right into EJ—went into residence, he's a good internist now—his name is Dr. Ponterio, and he came up because through, my brother would tell him stories about the Triple Cities, and through him—there's been another doctor—another dentist, I guess, was Dr. Cargoza, that came right up from that Staten Island area, so you can see the influx of the Triple Cities—by these city physicians and professional men that are getting out of New York City—to come up in this area. That's very prominent—I noticed—oh—what else can I say? Can I talk about, about EJ? Now I'll start right in. The way we started off with EJ—I know I spent 47 years with the company. I can say that we were treated fairly well—outside the knowledge—that people—you know that they might knock the company. I can say for their medical program, and if it wasn't for Endicott Johnson, I guess, I, because my father died young—I was left with two sisters, two brothers and a mother. During the Depression there—we had a hard time—through this EJ Medical program, you know, you couldn't really look for a job in any way—then most of the people in the area, you know, it was a program, free dental, free medicine. In fact, I know people who were flown down to St. John Hopkins—then they had something like, well, TB, was years ago very prominent, if you will recall. They even had a place outside of Saranac Lake, over there, where they used to send workers, which was quite prevalent—I'd say, where some of the workers were down there—it was nothing to spend thousands of dollars on them—whatever it was. I remember one case—I'd say, a girl on Murphy Ave—wasn't it? Or somewhere where a young girl was burned almost—I'd say about 60% of her body, and it was through plastic surgery—thousands, thousands of dollars—on these hospitals—it’s things like this that are unheard of—I know it will pass through records—you know, people will forget very easily. Well, say, well, when my father first come—we'll get right back to, ah—the way they built their house—was on Endicott Johnson. Now this is before they gave EJ homes—I mean—before they got that started—they gave away land, and through Endicott Land Company. Outside corner lots—you had to pay $100 per corner lot—anything else was free—we lived at Odell Ave., behind the school near Witherill St. When I was born in Italy—I was about eight or nine months old, and my mother, when we came here—my father was already building the house on Odell Ave., which went down after a while, I guess, after many years my mother was very sorry about that—to see the house go down because they had to have a playground for the kids. Well, the only thing we had to play on rocks really—on the side of the school—North Side School—before they built it. I know I was saying something about Marko's having a window there—it was a good target for baseball or football or anything, and this window, you know, being broken—say—times everything—that was my cousin, my brother and another boy—we had to split this charge about, I'd say about 13-something a piece to pay for the window—this Marko, he was a, he had a heart of gold but he could only do so much. He was very good about it—I remember him knocking on the door and he said, "Dom, I know it was your brother”—you know, everything like this and that—“You want to pay for the window? I just can't get any more insurance.” That was a week's pay as far as we were concerned—stuff like this. If you want to ask me anything else—possibly how we entertained ourselves? Nettie: I think that would be interesting—how you entertained yourself. Dominick: At the time, we used to play dankeeper [sic]—and I wouldn't tell kids today, they had to open water tanks—that is something else I remember—follow the arrow—they used to have a ladder, and iron ladder, going up these things, and we'd start swinging around these darn ladders that go into the inside of these things they are 30-40 feet deep. We'd go down the ladder—we’d have to follow the arrow and cross it off and come up the ladder and swing around and follow the arrow down and see—and these are well protected. We just used to shimmy up old low wooden things that we used to hide—and they had a door, we never broke the lock on the door, but we used to go over it and get down and things like that—you often wonder today. For Halloween—we used to take rosin and a piece of string and, say, about 150 feet or so away from the house, and attach with a rubber washer and a screw—make a lot of noise, and that was the—oh—that was the—thank God—I didn't say about the entertainments and our curfew—which was another, and they took off the list. Maybe it is still a law as far as Endicott is  concerned—it might be still on the record. A nine o'clock curfew—going down to the movie, I'll never forget. There were six of us on our street and our parents wanted to impress us, I guess, about this Dante's Inferno. We all went down to Washington Ave., and we got into that movie—it was about 6 o'clock at night, and we never realized the movie was long, it can happen with—I can still remember the time because it was a little after we used to have the town clock there—it was about ten after nine—six of us were walking across the street, about where Burt's might be now, or they had the fire station right there and police station was there—and one of the policemen, he didn't have anything else to do, whatever, and he came right there and took us in. Our parents had to come down for us—there was no phones to call them up—they got word for them and they had to walk down as there was no transportation for us. And that was it, that was the event. Nettie: Then you got home and you got the devil. Dominick: No, no, we were sent by our parents to see the movie—there was nothing, you know, that they could do—as I said—kids today should appreciate what they have—as far as freedom—because that 9 o'clock curfew is, just wrought-iron. I wouldn't be surprised that that wasn't still on the books. Nettie: Well, you had some really interesting recollections, Dom. Dominick: I could go through a lot of them, the tanneries. [Bells chime]. We used to run between the pits, mostly down at the tanneries—anyone that's familiar—they had vats that were about 6 feet or 8 feet deep with acid or with stuff, and we'd do down for wax or whatever it was you have, we’d start running it between the darn vats and just that first thing—probably ten inches wide—one of those with an acid bath—splinter there—this was our fun in the tanneries. Then they would have a stacks of bales upon the thing—we would play King of the Hill—right on these darn bales of leather they had outside on some of these, lower Oak Hill Ave. or in freight houses in that stuff there. We were used to that smell—it was just part of—right by the tanneries. I can always remember talk about putting people on the spot—you know, I might have been a young brat—your father might have been one of them who bought magazines or smelly like perfumes like that that we would turn in for prizes of a movie camera or projector that you'd never get what they would take, or sell them some bottles of some sort of cologne—some had enough of them, but they all chipped in. Oh, they were a great bunch of people—we would go there to have our lunch—they would have fun themselves, because they were Russians, Italians, Czechoslovakians, it was a great—they had fun there—made fun of each other in a kidding way—like on Christmas especially, because the Julian calendar—like the Italians or any of them who had Christmas would come around—then the Russian Orthodox would come with umbrellas—especially if it was raining and there was no snow—this was a great, great thing, and January 7—I can remember that on January 7, that they would have snow but we would always get even with them on Easter—because I can remember my parents, they used to go in their shirtsleeves even if it was bitter cold, just to show that Easter come late.  It's talk about exchanging recipes, the Italians were great on greens and fried peppers and all that stuff, and they would exchange on holubkys. I remember eating holubkys when I was growing up because of the Russians—whoever—exchanged sandwiches—when we would have lunches—coming back from Henry B. Endicott or high school. And another thing I can remember, really, when IBM took advantage of the diner—if you can remember, for 15¢—sometimes EJ workers wouldn't get in because IBM was there—I can go a step further—where it got to a point where most of my friends were IBM-ers. I remember one asked me, "Dom, it's my turn to entertain—can you get me eight tickets for a banquet?" Well, that does the line—I finished them off, because for $1.00 you could wine, dine and have a great time with a band—got to a point where EJ workers, themselves, were not attending—a lot of IBM friends—but what the heck, I could not blame them for doing this—but this was where Charlie Johnson was trying to be a good Joe. He could never keep with George F. He wanted to be liked—he tried many ways—but he just couldn't. Another thing, if they wanted to know something—I played golf for 25¢. You go around the country—I've been to quite a few places, you tell them this stuff about playing golf for 25¢, they wouldn't believe you—if you had a course on there—this is well known that were no hazards on it, he said, “I don't want my workers climbing hills and everything after a day's work,” which was true—not on a golf course—for 25¢—we used to play, that was another thing, they wanted to borrow our cards—people didn't work for Endicott Johnson just to go down there and play for a 25¢. Then if I remember there were quite a few stories, like lots of the time we wanted to go to the IBM’s neighboring golf course, you couldn't get on there—you had to almost sign your life away to get on there as a guest.  So, this is the part of the difference between EJ and IBM—which is true. IBM is a great company—there is no getting around it, but they were a lot stricter—’cause EJ, what happened to EJ was their own fault as far as management—as far as anything else, because the workers—in the first place they were too lenient and then they were too generous. But, IBM, as a company, you can see, they do a lot for their workers today and then a lot more than Endicott Johnson could ever manage. Well, there might be a few more stories—there might be a few stories to think about to my recollections. You came to interview my wife—and—I— Nettie: Dom, thank you very much. It has been interesting. [Pause]. Dominick Cinotti is the husband of Angelina Cinotti. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dominick Cinotti Subject The topic of the resource Endicott Johnson Corporation Housing Program; Cinotti, Dominick -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Endicott (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service Description An account of the resource Dominick Cinotti of Endicott, NY talks about his grandfather, father, and uncle's emigration from Italy. He discusses the railroads and trolley cars as their means of transportation, the development of the downtown and business district of Endicott. He worked for the Endicott Johnson Corporation and mentions the medical and home ownership programs provided by the company. He also tells anecdotes from his childhood. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 14 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cinotti, Dominick ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-08 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 24:24 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fdc4cb7ba71dbc535100154fc9329b61.mp3 903077c458e84ae22693206c66d8f337 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Chase, Doris Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-05-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 23:01 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55883">Interview with Doris Chase</a> Subject LCSH Chase, Doris -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; Librarians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Lowell School of Business; Broome County Courts Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Doris E. Chase Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 8 May 1978 Susan: Miss Chase, could you start by telling us where you were born, something about your parents, and any recollections you have of your early childhood and later on your work experiences in the community? Doris: Yes, I was born in Windsor, NY, on February 11, 1914. I couldn't have had better parents. They were good Christian people and they welcomed me into the home. I had two brothers, eight and ten years older than I was, and they had been praying for me for eight years, and here the little girl comes to town. A little offset would be nice to tell you that when, ah, brother Ronald, when he knew that I had arrived at one o'clock in the afternoon, he went and rang every doorbell in Windsor to tell them he had a little baby girl Doris, and I can say he still loves me as much which is wonderful. Well I went to school in Windsor ’til I was in the, ah, sixth grade, and then I—we moved to California ’cause my father thought he wanted to get out of the undertaking business and work out there with my aunts and uncles, and I went to a school—first the Menlo Avenue School, which was very interesting. My people sort of put me on my own, at the time I thought I was desperate, because I thought to go in, I was a little girl from Windsor and I was scared to death, but they put me in what you call an “opportunity class” that find out what you can do. From Windsor to Los Angeles was quite a stride but every day I walked by the famous Coliseum and played around there, which I—now you have your big football games and your—but I was there a whole term and I worked myself so hard, I was so worried about not making good, that I skipped a whole grade. Then I was over to Angeles Massus School where we bought a home there in Los Angeles. This was very interesting to me, too, because in those days I didn't know about Spanish homes and this was a Spanish type of school, and you played handball all winter long and you rollerskated to school in the middle of the blocks that's—was the way it was set up, so it was a great thrill and a great experience. Well, after a year my dad decided to return, and we came to Binghamton and he bought the funeral home on Exchange Street in 1924. Well I spent my days going into high school at the age of 12, which was an early age, and I graduated at 16 and I took college entrance, where it was of great value to me ‘cause I still reiterate that Latin and French are very good, especially Latin, for people today, and I stress it with my students in the library now. Then I was to go for Physical Ed and was accepted at Cortland State College, but I had an operation which changed my life around, which I think the Lord did do this because he had something else better for me, so I went to business school here in Binghamton at Lowell’s, and I graduated from there and the first job I had, they got for me down on Susquehanna Street in a plumbing company. Well I was only there two weeks, and for this reason—my mother played in a bridge club where Walker Sherwood, the County Treasurer, his daughter played in it, and she asked my mother if Doris had work. She said, “Well, yes, but she didn't want to stay there."  So she said that he wanted somebody to type the tax sale, and we'd be there a month. The job would be a month’s job, and I said to Mother, "I'm going to take it. I'm going to get my foot in the door on the Courthouse.” So on July 3rd in 1933 I entered the Courthouse, and I'm still with it now. This is in 1978 through many jobs, but Walker Sherwood was the president of the bank here in the city and he was appointed by Governor Charles Hughes to take over the County Treasurer, and he taught me everything I knew in banking. It was a delightful thing to start working with him, ’cause I remember the first day I was very scared and he said, “Just get on the job and make good, ‘cause I was told that when I became a runner in the bank and worked up to President.” We didn't start the tax sale that day. It wasn't quite ready, so he said, "I've got—I'm gonna have you sort checks." Again, I was so scared that I sorted all the checks in one day and it was quite a standing joke in the office. (Chuckle.) Well, I progressed, of course, and ah—ah, Walker Sherwood died, and then I was appointed Deputy County Treasurer by Ralph Page, the new Treasurer, and I had five girls under me. It was much fun and a lot of hard work. I got into court with trust funds, mortgage taxes, et cetera—made trips to Albany and had many friendships. Well, my life went along, and then I did go to Houston, Texas, for a short time. I was married and I worked in an interesting place there. The man we bought our home from was the—the City Treasurer of Houston and also the Chief of the Civil Service, and the uncanny part of it, I, he said—he said, "Where are you from?" and I said, “Binghamton, you've never heard of it."  And he says, "Oh yes I have,” because the Chief of Police, Joe Sullivan at that time, he said, “I went to the FBI School with him,” and he said, "Well, why don't you come—come to work for me?" And I said, "Well, I wouldn't know the Texas laws." And he said, "Well, we need help,” and he says, "We're really in dire straits because we are just beginning to put the IBM payrolls on—on machines, and we don't just know how to do it.'' Well, I began to laugh. He said, "What are you laughing at?” I said, “We were the guinea pig of the whole United States when the IBM started that." So he says, "Come to work Monday.” So that was an experience that I had working there. I worked there six months, and then my husband drove out the driveway and left me and I have never seen him since and that was twenty-six years ago now, but life was still open. God was seeing his way, opening—closing doors and then opening another for, and so when I came home in May, Judge Brink called me up. He says, "I hear you’re home, Doris," and I said, "Yes," and he said, "Well I have an opening the first of September. You are going to come and work for me as—in the county judge."  And I said, "Well, I don't know that work." He says, "Well I will teach you." That was the most delightful ten years I have—he was a very honorable man, he taught me so many things. He taught me how to read briefs, how to take decisions. I had pistol permits, which, everything is divided now in different departments—called the Jury Commissioner, I did that where, and it was—it was really an experience and it was gearing me for my further life coming on. So the, the librarian died—Miss Lee, who had been there fifty years—and Judge McAvoy came to me and he said, "I would like to have you come and take over." Well, again I reiterate I didn't know the work. He said, "I don't know it either, but I know that you will get in there and work hard." So, it was quite a time to take over everything, because everything was behind and the Library was closed down for several days because just everything was—supplements were back and everything needed attention, so until we could get straightened around, why, it—it took quite a while, but I did go to visit—well, the first library I visited was the United States Supreme Court Library—a very interesting man, Dr. Hurdon was delighted when I told him my story. He said, "Anybody will do this." He said, "You sit right down and I will talk with you a whole afternoon, get you straight on your treatises and so forth." And he really gave me a great start to come back to set up the library and there were many other, ah, libraries that I did go to, and then I took the courses that were offered by another fine man who was the Appellate Division Librarian. He was also a teacher out of Chicago in his earlier days, and he taught us in New York how to do the Law Library—catalog work, and many, many things, so that, people have always been helpful in my life and I now I'm getting in the stage where I want to leave for posterity. I want to help the students I have, the SUNY students and I have the teachers from Cortland State Teachers College, you see I have volumes there that in this area the State provides, and they don't have it in other libraries, only in Cornell. Not everybody can go to Cornell University to look these up. But, getting back to the men in my life, they have always influenced me, but the greatest influence was my father, for every morning we had prayers, even from a little girl I remember him down there reading his Bible, and he always had such wonderful thoughts to offer you and I know it—it's influenced my life greatly, and he said, "Doris, if you keep your faith He'll always stand by you." And it's so true, even in the library work I have my New Testament in my desk drawer, and if I lack wisdom I look up in the Book of James for help and God has never failed me. It might not be that moment, it might not be that hour, it might be next week, but He's always—always helped me, and I'm so grateful for that kind of background, that’s what everybody needs to get through this life, and I'm just so thankful that I have had these fine men and everybody, and I do love my lawyers. They know I'll do anything for them and people would be happy if they really gave her the life. Money isn't everything. It's—and another thing, ah, character is important, not that I'm so good, but I've tried to fill the principles that they taught me. So now, and I'm in my church work at St. Paul’s Lutheran Church and I enjoy the class, and we have an adult class, which is really—we enjoy, and we are helpful to many, many people that we reach out to them and if they need groceries or if they need help in many ways, we talk with them and it's a very satisfying life. I think, of course, the older you grow, the more you turn your thoughts to God, I guess, but in my own life I can't say that. I'm always—always going to church. I've tithed. I've done it from a little girl up and I have never lacked for anything—I might get down to my last penny, but I've always been supplied with everything in this life. It's hard to think of so many things that have happened, ah— Well, I've been honored, which is very nice. I—way back, I hadn't been in the Library too long. It was in October of 1969, and I got a letter from the Bar Association and they asked me to come to their dinner as their guest, and I really—I couldn't think why they'd want me there, but anyway I soon found out. They honored me with two beautiful corsages, and for bringing the Library back to life. It was—it was certainly a tribute—a standing tribute. It was almost too much for me, but then I stood on my feet and I thanked them for what they did, and then I said, "There are a few things that you’ve left out." And they of course looked surprised, and I said, "Well—I, there were things that I'm called upon to do by all of you when you go into court, and this is true, I've sewed on many buttons on coats and blue suits and have had to go there. I've had to call wives. I've had to read things back on the telephone when you were desperate. You have keys and you come to my house nights and Sundays and everything else, so I guess I sort of mother all of you."  Well, later on in life I had another honor, which I was very, very pleased. I went home one day and I had a letter from the Women of Status Council, and I—I didn't really know what it was. I started reading and they said they wanted me to come to a dinner again and that they wanted a brief biography of myself, and this was held in the Ramada Inn and my honor was for my work in the community in Law, not as a lawyer, but being helpful to the people and the students trying to—going way beyond my line of duty to—to give something, and as I say, if I know something I try to impart it. There's one other thing, too, when—well, judges, I have them and they come in and ask me and I say, “I don't know why you're asking me?” They said, "We came because we don't know and when we'll work."  Well I said, "I know I don't know, that's one thing I've always said if I don't, but there's a great big but—but I will start looking. We'll keep searching ’til we find it." I can't think of any other honors that I've had, but I love life. I love people. It's very evident I love people, because so many people say, "Well, it's so much fun to come in there, ’cause we always, it's not just like work, it's play." Well, I've had students, too, that it's been a—ah, I'll never forget, I remember one boy that I worked with, very hard with, in—in federal taxes and things like that, and he went on to, ah, Hastings College in California, and it was several years later that I looked up, and here he was in my library, and he said, "I was near Binghamton and I just had to come back and tell you,” he said, “how much you did for me,” and he said, “You know you made my life very easy in Federal Taxes when I went to college, because,” he said, "you went into great depth to, ah, to teach me." And as I say, “When you didn't know, I used to call David Sterns, ’cause he's tops in that field. I never called him until we got to the, until when we—we just didn't know where we were going." And so I felt very pleased about that. There have been many rewarding things that have, and you—you can help students. I remember one boy, too—he came in, and a professor had brought his class up, and he was going to show him, and he was trying to save me and he was trying to show what the library—how to look for things. Well, he went so rapidly that this poor boy, he sat down and he says, "I will never be a lawyer, I—I just can't grasp it this fast." And I says, "Don't worry, I'll talk with you afterwards." So after it was over with, I said to him, "When you have time, you come up and make an appointment with me here in the Library,” and I said, "I will take time and I will show you what we have here and you can ask me any questions, and you take notes because I know that your father wants you to become a lawyer." And I said, "Don’t get discouraged by just this little." He never got over it and I didn't either, but it—these things in life that count that are worthwhile. It's just wonderful to be able to be—well, I think I'm privileged to be in this position of being with these men working under them and God. I can't say but what He really planned my life and it's opened up as I've gone along, and as I say I gave this speech, "The Men in My Life," to the Exchange Club, and as I—I prepared for it—it took me about two months because I wouldn't get up and speak in front of men if I didn't know what I was talking about, and I realized then for the first time that I never applied for a job. So I'm happy, and I'm just glad to do this for you for posterity. Susan: Well, thank you very much, Doris, for taking the time out to come up and talk with us. I knew that, ah—about your background, but it is a story that only you could tell us and I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Doris Chase Subject The topic of the resource Chase, Doris -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Broome County (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; Librarians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Lowell School of Business; Broome County Courts Description An account of the resource Doris Chase talks about her Christian upbringing in Binghamton, NY. She attended the Lowell School of Business and worked as the Deputy County Treasurer. She moved to Houston, TX for a short time. She returned to Binghamton and was employed with the Broome County Courts first under Judge McAvoy and later as the librarian. She discusses her revitalization of the library, service to the community and honors from the Bar Association. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 12 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Chase, Doris ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-08 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 23:01 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0679fd5183c56f0e3a93eaff7f9bf3e9.mp3 52e24382258e130cb44e03fd7faa8c0a https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/87ef3c21a573d0ab7b2fef20f461b624.mp3 aa9b63d384f73252bca20899177233b2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d883ca1daa761ad52df58c07cb695190.mp3 effebd5b659aa58b01be01c9a9279639 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Titchner, Dorothy Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:54 Minutes ; 11: 28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56042">Interview with Dorothy Titchener</a> Subject LCSH Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dorothy Titchener Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 15 March 1978 [Tape #1] Dan: Mrs. Titchener, will you tell me about your life and working experiences in the community starting with your place of birth? Mrs. Titchener: Well I was born, I do remember that and I had to look up ah I didn’t have to look up when because I’m 80 years old and that was a shock to me—I couldn’t believe it. I was born in Washington, D.C. in 1897, Washington, D.C., and ah my father was the 2nd cousin of ah Mark Twain—Samuel Clemens and so I presume I would be 3rd cousin because his mother, Mark Twain’s mother, was a Jane Lampton and that was my maiden name was Lampton. In England, they came from England, and it was spelled Lambton but with the nasal quality of the American voice why it was translated to Lampton. I went to school in Washington, D.C., a French school, and I majored in French and Dramatics and Writing. It had started in kindergarten—marched down and informed them that I was coming to school because it was on the street where I was born and the later went to ah Bennett Junior College for 2 years and graduated from there and I studied Drama under Charles M. Kennedy and ah Edith M. Mathewson. They were old time ah artists in that field and I was offered a part in The Blue Bird ah Betrothal which was a sequel to The Blue Bird really really to offer, whereupon my mother snatched me back to Washington. I’m very glad she did because I never would have met my husband Paul, who was in the Army then and came to Washington and it was there I met him and I have 3 children—James, my son is a psychiatrist and he is attached to the University of Cincinnati and he is a research psychiatrist and also he is lately by the Government—he’s a Fellow which is supposed to be as high as he can go. I know he gets $1000.00 every time he opens his mouth and I get $1000.00 if I shut mine, I think—I guess the general feeling of my family but anyway he’s done very very well and he was a rather shy child and I’m sorry that Paul didn’t know how famous he has become. He’s traveled all over the world because he is the head member of the disaster group and what they do is to go around and try to improve people’s morale when these terrible disasters happen, such as mine disasters and this horrible fire in Kentucky nightclub and so forth, and I have a daughter, Ann, and she is head of one ah private school in Maryland and was one of the first integrated schools in Maryland—she’s just recently become—she worked there as a teacher and they have a great many, ah, both Black and white students and teachers. It’s completely integrated and they say that any child can take any kind of course. They will offer anything the child needs or wants and so she has many of the Congressional children in the school. They bus them in—it’s outside in near her home in Maryland, and then I have a second daughter, Jean, and she lives in Salt Lake City and she works considerably in civic affairs there in Salt Lake and also she teaches in a Presbyterian kindergarten school both morning and afternoon with children. She perhaps is more like me. Ann is like her father—Ann has a good business head and I should say after Jean, is more like me. Well that about wraps up my family—oh I have eleven grandchildren—mustn’t forget all those and they’re ah they’re all—I only have one married—one girl married and ah this is kind of interesting because she was ah a very independent person and I’m very fond of her and they’ve decided, she married a man in the forestry service and they are now living in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, in a summer cabin 5 miles from Bonners Ferry with no utilities whatsoever, not even water and they think it’s wonderful and they’re trying to buy 20 acres of land there and grow all their own food and then she’s going to be ah she’s studying her biology and she’s going to be a doctor and heal everybody with herbs and she grinds all her own food. Now she was a girl who was brought up on New York City—her family moved to Salt Lake and then I have another daughter in New York, granddaughter who’s trying to go on the stage and naturally that’s a very difficult field to enter. I’ve tried to persuade her to do radio or something else and creep in but No she’s decided that’s what she wanted to do so that’s about, that takes care of the family, I guess. Now ah you asked me about different clubs I belong to. I had to list them because I couldn’t remember what I did belong to—what I didn’t. Some I think I just went and some I belonged to—anyway I belong to Monday Afternoon Club, the Civic Club, Shakespeare Club—this is local, the League of Women Voters—now that I had trouble with because they study everything and I’m a person of action because if somebody tells me I can’t do it—that’s the one thing I do. In, in civic work, I can’t wait for them to mess around with the red tape and so on and so I had trouble with them because they sent me out to do some speaking for a certain proposition that they wished to have the people know about and I thought I was supposed to get them to ah pass it. So I came back jubilantly to tell them that these three places I’d been had all voted on it and agreed to do it, whereupon ah they almost invited me out of the organization, because they were supposed to study it two more years or something. I think they’re one of the best clubs in the city, I really do, and think they do a great deal of good. It simply was not my nature to go along that way—I’m not criticizing them in any way. I belong to the American Civic Association, I’m an Honorary member of Zonta, I belong to the Business and Professional Women’s Club, where I have been very active and the Junior League, the Girl’s Club, the YMCA—I was on the Board of that, then the Children’s Services Society and the Girl Scouts Council and the Housing Authority ah for 20 years and ah I’m going into detail but these are the main and I was the first, one of the first, for three years the first organizing group of Opportunities for Broome, when it was first organized, I was on that Board, so I think that takes care of that part. Well now I have something that I say, this was personal and I think I’ll take that for last because I would like to go into what I have done, special events that I have done and I have to start probably with the Junior League because that’s the first organization I joined when I came here and we were—I was never President of the Junior League but I was on the Board because I was always ah was theater chairman and I wrote ah children’s plays and acting in it and then I directed several children’s plays that we had and then I think one of the most exciting things we did was we wanted to raise some money, when we took over the ah day nursery as a project. As you know, the Junior League is an all volunteer work and we took this over as a project. We wanted to raise some money to do some good work there and really improve their facilities—so we ah I suggested we take the Binghamton Press for one evening and ah sell the papers and do all the advertising and get the money from the advertising and so forth and I was editor of it and then with other members of the League, we did and we sold the papers on the street and Jim Farley happened to be in town that day and I sold him one for $10.00 and I said, “You mean your boss isn’t worth more than that?” but anyway he gave us $10.00 and we raised about $1500.00 to $2000.00 and incidentally, we paid the newsboys their regular fee—we didn’t cut them out of the money they received that day—so we did that for two years and I went down to Washington where I—because I knew more people still in Washington—I know many of the older ones now—the new ones I don’t know very well, but I did know because my father was interested in politics and really enjoyed it—he never was a politician—he was a sort of a politician at home but he wasn’t in politics but he loved them. So I got in to see President Franklin Roosevelt and he gave me a perfectly beautiful letter congratulating the Junior League on doing this which of course made the front pages of the Binghamton Press and the second year we did it, we couldn’t go back to him again so we went to Governor Lehman, he was Governor of New York State and we had a letter similar to the one ah Franklin Roosevelt wrote and so that enhanced the sale of the papers of course. These two letters were very important and we did make around $2000.00-$2500.00 each time. $1500.00 first and then money kept coming in and we did as I said get all the money from the advertising we solicited—so that was quite successful. So that was one thing in Junior League that had not in—also I, I like to add that several plays and I went to many conferences with this Junior League and I enjoyed it thoroughly and I won the first ah Silver Cup that Esther Couper, Mrs. Edward Couper, was then President of the Club but her mother gave a Silver Bowl—not a cup, it was a bowl—and it was given to the person who had done the most for the League in that year. I think probably Esther should have had it but because it was her mother’s cup, I fortunately won it and it’s still in existence and people are still winning it year after year. I think that it has so many names on it I thought they ought to give me the old one because I was the first but they didn’t do that. They bought another bowl and they’re going on with it so that was that and then let’s see, I think the next thing that I did was Scouting—that was really coincidental with the ah Junior League because I hadn’t been in town more than a month when Paul and I were both put on the ah Council—the Girl Scout Council and ah it seems that they needed a Commissioner, they called the President a Commissioner and ah so they appointed me—elected me I guess it was, about the month after I went on the Board so that was fun because I had always—I love the out of doors. I’ve been to girl’s camp, I taught dancing and was always for the outdoor things—hiking, swimming, and I loved the out of doors, so I liked Girl Scouting and I forced my two girls to naturally to go in. But they were trying to find a camp and they had been trying for 10 years to find a site. So one Sunday, Paul and I said, “Let’s go out and buy a camp”—so without telling anyone, we went out, we took a flat iron—we heard there was a little lake off out of Deposit in the hills there and we trudged up there and ah sure enough there was a lake and so we had an old leaky rowboat sitting there by the dock—we got in it and rode out and dumped this iron in—it went down so we said, “This is a beautiful lake, just beautiful, we’ll buy it,” so we went down to Deposit, found out who owned it and put a deposit on it, personal, and then came back and told the Council that we had bought this lake and it was perfectly beautiful. We built it up to the point where they couldn’t say it wasn’t. It was a very nice camp and they since enlarged it and to name it we ah both first how, how to build the thing, we had a cocktail party and we had it 3 days before the big blowup in the ah stock market and so we told everyone if they would give us $500.00 for a cabin, their names would go on the cabin and we raised $29,000.00 at that cocktail party and it was 3 days after that, that we took all their checks to the bank and they were all broke—not really but I mean everybody lost money as you know—so that’s the way we built the camp and then later they had enlarged it and they’ve done wonders with it—it’s beautiful. Dan: What was the name of it? Mrs. Titchener: We named it Amahami and this was funny too. Ah, Charles Curtis was Vice President of the United States and he was part Indian, so I wrote him a letter and asked him to sent us some Indian names—he was to come up the night we actually named it but he couldn’t make it, however we selected Amahami—much to my sorrow—because they always called it “I’M a mommy” and blamed it on me but anyway that’s just one of—it isn’t very and I, this is ah sort of an offshoot—the other night I spoke at the Business and Professional Women’s Club about past things and this very young looking girl steps up to the rostrum and she’s making a plea for the Girl Scouts and she said, “I don’t suppose any of you know much about them,” and I’m sitting next to her and I poked her and said, “Well I was Commissioner for 7 years,” then later she goes on to say, “Well at Carlisle Housing Project, sometimes the girls can’t pay their registration,” and so again I, she said, “I know none of you here probably know much about what Carlisle is—it’s a Public Housing Project.” I said, “Well I only ran it for 20 years, but that’s all—here’s 2 bucks for a kid for Carlisle,” but that has nothing to do with the work but anyway it was funny after all these years—of course she’s very young—she never heard of me. Anyway I was commissioner for 7 years and then I retired from that. Well then I guess the next thing that I did was to get into ah I didn’t from housing to that did I, Yes I guess I did. I think I was—I didn’t know there was such a thing as public housing in Binghamton—had no idea there was but all of a sudden one day the telephone rang and it was ah Mayor Kramer and he said, “Would I come on the ah Housing Authority as a member?” and I said, “What is it?” He said, “Well we have these housing projects and I’ll take you around and show them to you,” and I said, “Well I’ll come on,” so I came on and ah soon as I, again I always seem to fall under these things without anybody’s knowledge or desire but anyway all of a sudden they had no head of the housing, no commissioner there for head of the housing, so all of a sudden they had this meeting and Paul was sitting there and he said, “I don’t want Dorothy to do this”—they had both men and women on the council then. All right, all of a sudden I’m elected and I’m chairman of the Housing Authority. Well I think that was probably the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me because I loved it, I just loved it and they had just the two then—they had Saratoga Terrace which is on the south side and they had Carlisle which was at the East end. Dan: Moeller Street? Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, Moeller Street. Anyway, I went to a meeting at the—I was taken up there and looked at the place—it looks like a college campus because it’s quite pretty—it was and so I go. I come to this meeting and I had told everyone that I was to meet them all so please, if they could get off from work, I’d like to meet the men as well as the women, well come. Well the place was jammed. So I stand up there and I said, “I’ve come to give you some news,” and from the back of the room, rose this great burly guy and he said, “Who the blank do you think you are?” and I said, “Well that’s a good question and maybe I came here to find out.” Well that sort of settled them down. What I really came to tell them was, it seems that they had a painting cycle of the apartments every 3 years and they went down the north side in yellow and the south side in green—period. And I thought that was horrible because any woman who has a home, reacts to color and it isn’t theirs unless they can have what they want. So I had arranged with the State Division of Housing, that is the State operated ah housing—the Saratoga Terrace is and I had arranged with them early to try this—of picking out the number bedrooms and the number of colors they wanted from a chart that happened to be pastel colors and they said I was crazy but finally they agreed with me I could do it. So I told them I had come to really announce that—that they could but I had 3 weeks to get in all their colors—all of their choices and they couldn’t change them once they started because I would order X number of blue, be all of this stuff you see. So they came and in less than 4 days every member there—there were 254 apartments and everybody had come and picked out in 4 days the colors they wanted and the Division, New York State Division was just astounded and the painter said it was, it was the easiest job he ever had. Once in a while he got chicken and he did change some of the colors—well because he had some but that made a great difference. Well then I, well then I found myself an interior decorator because they all came and said, “Well look, ah, Mrs. Titchener, now we don’t know, we have this and that then we put this new color on, would you help us, we can get some.” So I went to the different stores and got bolts of material—I got somebody who knew how to sew, to come up and help them and we had meetings at night and they made new curtains and they made and they covered their furniture and they went at it in a big way and the material was all donated by various stores—bolts of material, not expensive but nice and clean. So the place really did look just beautiful and they were—well, from there on I had them, you know what I mean because I had been, I had done something unusual for them. Dan: You gained their confidence. Mrs. Titchener: Yes and I gained their confidence, and so there I was right on top of the heap and I really loved it and it was funny because it was the first time in my life I had seen like 50 kids all the same age playing together. We did put a little fountain in the front yard in memory of one of the ah managers who had died and when we put that in—it ran water, you know—constantly over and over the same and little Catholic children all came out and blessed themselves with it. It was a real cute little fountain but they, they didn’t pull up—we planted ah flowers, we had flower boxes and they didn’t pull them up, they really didn’t and we had a baseball team and we had it in our front yard because it was the only place we had that was level enough to have a field and we couldn’t buy them uniforms or anything and, ah, it was ah, I think Rockefeller when he was Governor, Nelson Rockefeller came down and came to visit it and he played ball with them and so instead of asking for his autograph, we gave him an autographed baseball of our team, which was a switch and they were thrilled with that and they were very excited and a very nice thing happened then. He went for coffee at a house, one of the apartments, a very nice girl and she had a child who had a growth on his eye and ah Nelson Rockefeller looked at it and he said, “I think that should be attended to.” She said, “Well I don’t know who to go to,” and he said, “Well I do and I’ll arrange for you to come up to Albany and see this man.” Well the child had a malignant growth there and it was removed and he was fine. So I like to tell that because it was such a nice thing for him to do and ah he noticed things like that. Well then also ah I think that, that’s about the only time he ever visited but we did many many things for them. We had art classes, we had dances, we had teas and when Jim Gaynor was then head of New York State Housing and he came up—we had a tea—and everybody was very much dressed up and I asked them please to wear their best clothes to serve the tea in the afternoon and I took all my stuff over—I had silver and napkins and lace cloth and all of my stuff and I lugged it over there. We fixed the place all up and we have a nice recreation room there, very nice, large and really very nice, so he said to me afterwards he said, “Who are all these girls, are they Junior League girls?” so I thought that was a nice compliment. We also had people come—Tony’s Hair Parlor, they came once in a while to show them how to do their hair and improve their looks, how to wash it. We had people come it—one thing that was very difficult when they went over, became over income and had to move—they would go out and get some well I would say fly-by-night realtor, someone who wasn’t expensive and he would just take all their money and end up it wasn’t what they wanted and then they’d lose it and then by that time, the place was full and they couldn’t come back. So we did start this, ah, evening course and we asked the Real Estate Board to send different people—I couldn’t pick out one realtor but they would come and give them some advice and then where they could get someone who would not mishandle them and it would be satisfactory. We had a banker come to teach them how to ah take care of their money—in fact one ah little girl who was married very young and her mother came and she brought all her monthly money in little packages. This was for this and this was for that and I was to give them out to her. Incidentally, I want to make it crystal clear that in the 20 years that I worked for Housing, I never was paid one solitary cent except for traveling that I did at their bequest and no one would believe that because I took the role of the Executive Director at many times and most of the time and I had ah that gave me a wonderful weapon because I could go to both the State and Federal Divisions and march in and say, “Now you owe me about $15,000 now and I’d like to put storm windows on,” or I’d like to fix this up and then I really had Mr. Gaynor blow a show when ah I asked was going to put—oh we built the second edition but that was the first thing that I had anything to do with the building and that was Saratoga Heights and ah up there we have, that’s up built on a hillside and I had to first I went to all this elderly groups here in town to say whether they, that we had one small group for the elderly, whether they would like to look at the parking lot or the beautiful view down the valley of the River. Well they chose the parking lot to have their, the community. They wanted to see what’s going on so that’s the way we built it but we did put a little garden that was walled off, not walled but had a fence around it and we had a greenhouse and Jim Gaynor said to me, “Dorothy, that greenhouse will not have a window in it 3 days from the day you put it up.” Well for 6 years, it was filled with flowers—we had one broken window by the wind—and it seemed that all the tenants used it. They came down—the elderly ran it and they’d come down and bring their plants they got for Christmas and that would be nice and they would put them in there and we went to all the greenhouses around in town and they have us seeds and plants and things and they were smart enough to go to all the funeral homes, because most of them used geraniums all through the summer and they’d go and get them and cut them and have slips and they had enough geraniums to cover their place and all three places, Carlisle and Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights—so that was very successful. I understand now that’s not in use but I don’t go there now. After I retired I just leave—I don’t want to talk about it at all. I mean I, I don’t feel I should say anything because people would simply comment that I was being bitter or something. Dan: What years were you— Mrs. Titchener: Well I was there in 1939 and 20 years, what would that be 20? Dan: ‘59. Mrs. Titchener: 30. Dan: ‘39 to ‘59 would be 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: ‘39 to, oh no no, I didn’t go in ‘39, what’s the matter with me—that’s when I ah yes it was, that’s when I was on the radio, I’m sorry. No I’m sorry that’s a mistake—I don’t know when I did go. Dan: When did you retire? We’ll go back 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: Well I went down, retired in ‘74. Dan: ‘74. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ok, so that would be ‘54. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, that’s better, that’s better, thank you. You can see I’m very good in arithmetic. No, 39, I, I had my profession with the very end what I did to make money—well that was really a great thing. Another thing they offered the Authority—we had 5 members—I had a marvelous Authority—there were 5 of us on it, including me and the State offered us ah, ah I think it was $1500 a year, if we wished, for traveling expenses and we turned it down every year because we felt that this was too good. People would want to come in to make that $1500. It would mean something to them and we refused it, although there were a couple of members on our authority who could well have used that money and I always felt they were so brave and fine not to take it because we felt it put us in a different category and this way we could say we are volunteering this—we were giving out time and energy. Another thing, it was a little difficult to run, in this respect, the people whom we hired could not make the going rate because we couldn’t afford to because our rentals were based on the person’s income and it wasn’t great I can tell you that, so we had to give them extra—I used to call them “bingebellet benefits” because we would let—we would close the office and all go to a party and go out for lunch and things like that and in some ways we were a very cohesive group and ah worked well together that way and it, a Bill Johnson, when he was the Master of Ceremonies when I retired and I always remember what he said—he said, “Dorothy would, her her opinion was—let’s do what we want to do, then tell them afterwards.” That’s about the way we did. We went on to, when we built the ah—the next thing we built after the Heights was the ah housing for the elderly on Exchange Street—the two high rise and I didn’t want them named because I though, I think that’s what some owner’s people know—Carlisle Hill you know instantly that’s public housing, I said, “Why shouldn’t they have an address just like I do?” Like Exchange Street and Isbell Street a number is the number of your apartment. So, after much consideration, I knew Ken McKenzie who has since died—he was on the authority and he said, “Well ah let’s call it the Senile Silo”—so we had a lot of bright ideas like that. Well we hired a man from New York because nobody had built high rise here—we had architects local for the other buildings but here no one had built high rises at that time. So ah a high rise built for ah one of the housing divisions was different from building it privately because you are, actually it is much better built than this building for instance because of the regulations and all the things that are there to help them—it’s very well built. Well anyway we had someone from and incidentally that was the day that we hired the contractor, the ah the ah architect I mean, for building of the high rise—it was a luncheon and ah that was the day my husband died that afternoon, very suddenly. Dan: What year was that Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Well when did he—don’t ask me dates like that—he died—he’s been dead 14 years. Dan: 14 years. Mrs. Titchener: February, 14 years this February so you can subtract that again. I flunked arithmetic, maybe you guessed that already. Dan: Well that’s all right— Mrs. Titchener: I’ll tell you 2 and 2 don’t make 4, especially if you have guinea pigs. Dan: For anyone who flunked arithmetic, you’ve certainly been successful. Mrs. Titchener: Well I ran, I often say that ah people didn’t realize what they were getting into because I ran about a 4, 5 or 6 million business you know with the total. Now I have something here that I’m going to read from because it does give you a really meaning account of what, what the public housing is and what I said about it and if you don’t mind I’m going to read it because I could go off on a tangent but this is when I went in ah took over the ah money raising for PAL and I didn’t really like that. I like PAL but I had nothing to say in that—it was all Tony Ruffo—wouldn’t—he ran it really. They used my name is what they did and any ideas they had why and unless I can—I’m not an artist but I’ve created, I have ideas and I put them through and I won’t I don’t stop until I finish them and this he didn’t like I think and so I didn’t enjoy that because and another thing I didn’t enjoy was that he went to the newspaper and he got my Obit and printed it—had it printed. It didn’t say I was dead but it did leave that off but the rest of it was pretty and this is what was taken from that really but it’s ah—I had many experiences in housing that were very exciting and very different. Incidentally ah once I ah was sitting there and ah we had an Executive Director there at that time, a woman and she was very good and I was sitting there when ah this Black man came in and he said he’d seen in the paper a Black woman had died there and he wanted that apartment and ah she very kindly told him that we had a waiting list and you had to put your name down and the gentleman that he brought in was very very inebriated—he was holding him up—so he finally looked at me and he said, “Oh I know who you are,” and I had a Cadillac at that time and he said, “I’m going to burn your Cadillac if you don’t give this gentleman this apartment,” and I called him by name and I said, I’ll say Joe but it wasn’t, I said, “Joe, go ahead,” and I flipped him some matches I said, “It’s right outside the door here and here’s the matches.” He disappeared with the gentleman immediately. That was one thing that happened and another night we had a meeting at Saratoga and I had two men there and we had tenants meetings once a month to make it—tell all their grievances and we had the various ones try and answer them and help them out and so forth and we had ah, ah, I had a word from the Society, oh, what do you call it? Ah, dope. What do you call ‘em—have names, I can’t think anyway. Dan: Narcotics. Mrs. Titchener: Narcotics—that’s what I’m trying, that’s the word I’m trying to think of, anyway the head of the Narcotics Division here called me and said he understood there was an apartment there that they were dispensing it and they didn’t know exactly where it was and asked me to try and find out. Well I had a suspicion so I did find out and they later proclaimed that that was right and the sister of this woman who lived in this apartment knew that I had found out and she came blazing in and her eyes were very red. She pulled a switchblade on me but fortunately it was across a card table—it was like that (referring to table in apartment) and it just got within about 3 inches and everybody ran out, we had elderly there, they all moved out when I said, “Please leave, just leave and be quiet,” and I turned to this woman, whom I liked very much and still do—I like her very much but she was really high on something, what, I do not know—could have been alcohol, could have been drugs—I don’t know that but she was high anyway so I got out of that all right but when I walked out of that room, she was still behind me and I can tell you right now, I felt that blade between my shoulder blades all the way to the door but the men, they disappeared, everybody disappeared but I’ve seen her lately and she’s a very fine woman and she’s completely all right and I, she’s a very pretty—she’s a Black woman but very nice woman and has done a great deal for the community. So it was, those were some of the incidents. Oh and one other, back at Carlisle which is similar. Ah, I put a woman out who had lived there and they had been trying to get her out and nobody had the courage enough to do it and I did put her out. So she had some of her relatives and her friends call me and say that if I came to this meeting, she would shoot me—that she had a gun, so I said to my husband, “What will I do?” and he said, “Well you either go or give up your job, you can’t let them do that to you. You have to accept it—now you do one or the other, that’s all.” Well I was furious, because I thought well that’s a fine thing so I got in my car and all the way up, I tried to decide what how I’ll leave Paul, you know, because he’s so mean and I got up there and get in the meeting and everything and the rest of the tenants cheered because they had wanted her out for a long time and nothing happened, so when I came out, this gentleman, police car came up to me and said, “Mrs. Titchener, we have been here all along—your husband called me,” so you see that spared me getting a divorce. (laughter) It was really funny though because I thought, well, dear me, what, what is going on? Well now I better get down to this because this I think does say something about—it says, “Dorothy Titchener is color blind, sympathetic and empathetic to be administrator of 612 housing units for which the Housing Authority has responsibility. She dislikes the term ‘Housing Units’ as a merciless, bureaucratic phrase which does not reflect the essential human factors which exist in 612 families from lonely old oldsters to 14 member households. She has the reputation among most of her tenants of being warm hearted, hard headed, fair and tough. Her principal problem is—there is always some 300 families seeking apartments which are not available. Mrs. Titchener feels that she administers a society of microcosms, a society embracing any society’s proportion of success, failure, love, hate, happiness, despondent, culture, and delinquency. She considers law enforcement of prominent importance in any society. She feels that many otherwise astute citizens do not understand the so-called housing under the edicts under the Housing Authority. A highly paid executive with 12 children, she said, can readily be considered a poor man but richer or poorer than the Viet, the Vietnam veterans with no skills, a wife and child. The State sets the income limits which must be instituted by an applicant’s payroll deduction forms. The authority counts the dependents. Mrs. Titchener and her colleagues must then measure all other human factors relating to their interest.” So that gives you a rather hard line view of what it is and I do feel that people misunderstand it because they used to say and this is why we didn’t name the other place and another thing we did when they moved in, we gave them one sheet of paper with their address in an envelope—it was in their apartment when they moved in a we moved in all the families in 2 days, who were eligible. Dan: That is for Isbell and— Mrs. Titchener: Yes, Isbell and Exchange Street. Dan: 45. Mrs. Titchener: Well then we made our Central Office there—that’s what it became and in a sense that was in a way more difficult because I saw less of the other 2 places because my office was down there and that seemed to be much more and I knew them all and when I retired, they gave me in dimes, nickels and dollars and quarters $375.00 from the elderly tenants down there and I didn’t know what to do with it. I could think of nothing I could buy that would be meaningful so I asked if anyone else wished to contribute to it, though I didn’t do it myself, but Mr. Johnson said if anyone wanted to. I came up with almost $1000.00 of additional money that was given and I gave that to the Fairview Home for fun parties. They were not to buy equipment—they were to bring movies in that were real, have sherry parties, they were to entertain with it and have fun because my life has been one of great enjoyment and fun. I just really love it. Well now to get to ah to go back on some of the things that I didn’t leave you—different awards that I’ve had ah some are in this room. I’ve had 18 scrolls or plaques or something in my life which I consider quite something because I don’t deserve hardly any of them but anyway I, I thoroughly enjoy them. I had a War Certificate for raising, this was when I had—well my profession was radio and television, as I told you and I was on radio then and I sold War Bonds. Dan: This was for WWI? Mrs. Titchener: Yes—no it must have been II, I think it was II—yes because I had moved. WWI I was still in school and I came here. This was in WWII. But we wanted to get—buy a bomber. They needed bombers and so ah we raised $310,000.00 in one night and ah Thomas Watson paid for a program for us so we didn’t have to pay for that and so and he gave me a check for $1000.00 because we had 20—this friend of mine, who was a public relations director later of Housing, but she helped ah she had 10 or 20 phones coming in with money coming in and she would bring out the money and Dottie Baker who was then, had been on WNBF as a commentator and she did the commentary for this program and then it was coming in so slowly that he had a fit because anything he was connected with, you know, must be successful, you know he had that feeling of success and that was it—so what was I doing and I kept sending back why, why get it—well the phones were clogged—it took us until the next day really so he gave me a check for $100,000.00—he had already purchased a $10,000 bond, so had Mrs. Watson and I took the check and tore it in pieces and dropped it in his hand, which was the biggest thrill of my life to do that and we did raise $310,000. We bought the bomber and we called it “Broome Sweeps the Air,” something like that. Well that was an award that I got from the Government, then I got the Girl Scout National Thanks Badge, which is a pin and I got a certificate for founding the Camp at a later date. Then the thing I liked the best is the American Legion Award, Post 80, because my husband got it just 10 years before I did and then after he was gone, why I received it and I and Dr. Mary Ross is the only other woman to ever receive this award and I’m the second women and of course she is not alive so I’m the only woman now who has received it and I—it was in 1967 that I got that and then I got a Senior Homes Plaque when we built the—from the Housing Authority—I got a plaque for that and then I got a certificate for that from the tenants themselves with giving them a home and so forth at Exchange Street and both of them I got in 1968, that was. Then Sertoma Club gave me an International Award for exceptional service to mankind—that sounds kind of big—I don’t know who mankind are but anyway this was in 1969 and then the Local Sertoma also gave me an award the same year and the Ladies of Charity for Exceptional Community Service in 1969, the New York State President of Housing and Urban Renewal in 1970. I got into that, I was State President of that and ah that was ah for outstanding work and then I got this one which pleases me greatly for outstanding management of Public Housing from the Management Association—I thought that was pretty good because I never considered myself a manager—I’ve managed but I always did it so, you know, iffy—I thought so, anyway that pleased me, that was in 1971 and a 20 year award for Housing and Renewal accomplishments in ‘72 and a New York State award of Good Management from the State Public Housing in New York in 1968 and then just recently in 1977 I was the Woman of Achievement award and that isn’t a plaque, that’s a I don’t know, it’s a scroll and then ah I told you about the newspaper and I got an award for that—doing the newspaper for the Junior League. Now in business and Professional Women, I have several offices. I was local Vice President—I never was President of my Club because they always said I didn’t fool around with little things so I went on—I was Regional Director and then I was State President, then I was National Radio Chairman and then I was International Radio and Television Chairman and as International Chairman of that, I broadcast from Canada on BBC to welcome a new club in England—welcome them into the Federation and incidentally along with that, the founder of the Business and Professional Women’s Club was a Lena Madison Phillips and she was going away and she asked me to take her place on the Security Council in ah United Nations Security Council in New York for one day so I had the thrill of doing that for her and she incidentally died on that trip so I never saw her again. She was a great friend of mine. Another great friend of mine among a woman who I admired greatly was Eleanor Roosevelt. I knew her very well and I, and she was very, very good to me and gave me a great deal of good advice—fine advice. I knew her in her late years after the President died. Then ah, I told you International—oh I opened, when I was State President of Business and Professional Women’s Club, I opened the first State Office here in Binghamton in my house of Riverside Drive and the first Secretary worked for me—we called her the Secretary of State, so we had a lot of fun with that. I was ah I told you TV and International Chairman, I opened office. I, also the first State magazine. I like to write and so ah a lot of my work has been done in writing—I’ve never done anything—I’ve never tried to publish anything because I don’t, I never wanted anyone to see it but I write a lot and I oh did write a pageant that we gave at the State Convention and that was I have that several other places too and ah then our big thing was when we put up Margaret Chase Smith as for Vice President and I didn’t know her then but I just called her and got her. Well, on the phone, I was astounded—it was like calling the White House, you know, sometimes you get ‘em, mostly don’t but I did get her and then Judge Hughes was, has been National President of BPW and she was in Texas and Margaret of course came from Maine. All right, we went to this Convention and it was a wow, because, I told you about taking the handkerchief back, there was just three of us, this is the Democratic Convention. [Tape #2] Mrs. Titchener: …but on the floor there it had been tried. I had to bull my way on the Democratic (fly) so I had a very good one. She called me, I didn’t go to the Republican Convention and she called me at home and it was all on TV, I could look at it and she said, “I think we have a winner here,” and we had ah, Clare Booth Luce to nominate and Margaret Chase Smith. Senator Smith couldn’t come because her mother was dying in a Maine Hospital and at the last minute she had to decline coming. So it was all set though that Clare Booth Luce was to nominate and she got up and she stood there when someone came up and handed her a small piece of paper, whereupon, she read, “Oh this is a great surprise, Senator Smith has withdrawn her name.” Well we all could have flopped—well you can imagine what her real manager did to me—he called me up and said, “What are you doing, she did not withdraw her name.” Now they, they’ve made an investigation of it and they know the two people who did it—I won’t tell them it’s none of my business but he really gave me Goddy because what was I doing to take her name and smear it all over. We ran it—we sold bricks at the National Convention—we called them bricks—a buck for a brick and we raised $1010.00— Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: —for that, and ah we divided that equally between, ah, between Senator Smith and Judge Hughes and so we ran that whole campaign and we had about 4 million dollars worth of publicity because it was such a unique thing for women to do then, you see, you couldn’t do it that way not of course but we were very naive about it and I happened to know Drew Pearson through my work in radio—I was a member of the American Women in radio and TV, I forgot that—I used to go with them once in a while—the men would come to that and we’d go to theirs, their convention—the men—so I knew him and he was going to run, they had 8 people running for Vice President of the Democratic ticket, among them F.D.R. Jr. and a lot of people were running. So I went down to see him and he said he was going to run a contest Sunday night and ask people to phone in their choice because he, he thought that would be [an] interesting feature. So ah, Leona Wallace, this friend of mine, ran a, a small advertising agency and she was running the publicity for our group so I called her and I said, “Get every State President and send to them this notice,” and said that to for them to get every club in their State to send in votes for Judge Hughes. So the whole thing ended with Judge Hughes getting 390 votes and the rest of them got 10, 11 and 12 and 14, like that and I went down the next day and poor Drew Pearson was all slumped over and he says, “Hey Dot what’s going on?” and I said, he says, “Who in blank is Sarah Hughes?” So that was quite an event anyway and she was nominated and the two reporters from ah it was Woody Fischette and ah who later wrote a very fine column about me which was in the Congressional Record—I’ve been in that twice—through Senator Smith’s efforts and anyway he was one and ah McManus who later worked with Rockefeller was the other one and they were furious because they were required to stay over the next morning and see Judge Hughes nominated for Vice President and we only had—they kept asking me how many votes I had. I said, “Oh a block.” Well we called, we called 12 a block see—anyway we ah—she withdrew her name, she just wanted to be nominated. Dan: What Presidential election was this, Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Ah when Eisenhower was running against Taft. Dan: All right. Mrs. Titchener: That was the reason we got all these things. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: That’s the reason the Republican people worked to embarrass them—the Taft people wanted to embarrass ah Eisenhower—they wanted to get someone in there to embarrass him if Taft was not going to win so that’s why we had such success there and we really, really got in on that. We had one funny incident because ah the Democrats put up that woman who had been a party worker for many years—I can’t think of her name now, but it doesn’t matter, anyway she had a big dinner and she didn’t invited Sarah Hughes as a candidate, so I went to her and said, “What are you doing? She’s a candidate.” “Oh,” she said, “I don’t think she is going to get anywhere,” and I said, “Well whether she gets anywhere or not, you invite her.” So she went but she was seated way down nowhere near the, the head table. So we went to a cocktail party, a huge one the Pennsylvania group were giving and the reporters, some of them were in there and this reporter said, “I hear some dame’s running,” another dame besides this one who was really well known and I said, “Yes,” I said, “She’s going to win, I’M telling ya so you want to meet her?” So I, we march in and so there’s one seat left at the head table—at the end of the head table so we march in—this girl with me was a reporter and we see Sarah. “Come on, Sarah, you have been invited up to the head table.” So she gets up to the head table, so he’s taking pictures of her and this other woman is raging and Vickie Levene, incidentally, Victoria Levene, was running this other woman’s candidate, was helping with it. She was furious too of course, because here I was with, just sashaying up there with, with Sarah. Well it all ended all right because Sarah finally gave up and didn’t do anything about it. So I told you about selling the bricks and ah I told you about the different things that we did for the tenants and all the places we had dances and teas and then finally I retired from Housing in 1974 and I worked briefly at Roberson Memorial Christmas Shop for a while and then I was on the ah lay Board of the State Hospital and there they didn’t care much for volunteers because they were, they felt that ah volunteers didn’t know anything and so I, I, I stayed on about a year and then I retired from that and then I was on the lay board of the Board of Education—that was even worse (laughter). NO, no they wouldn’t they didn’t want us—all they wanted us to do was to—they made me publicity chairman and all they didn’t want me to do any publicity unless it was saying how great they were. When I told the truth of things that I saw, they blacked it out—so that was useless. So now I have retired in grace and am having a wonderful time and I love my life and I do what I please now for a change. Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: And I think I told you about my profession was, and oh I acted as a Persia Campbell—was head of the consumer’s department for New York State under Harriman and I worked as a consultant for her. Now these are things where I had made money and I got $25.00 a day to go around to ah clubs in this county—nearby clubs and consult with them about consumer problems, knowing nothing about them. I, I’ve never been very good at that but anyway I can, I can falsify. Dan: Well most of your life has been volunteer work, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: It’s been entirely volunteer work except I did make money. I did teach dancing once—I did write a column for the Press once for which I received money and I got money for this and of course I had that radio program and I had very good money when i worked for—I worked for 8 years for McLean’s—I ran a contest there and I worked there 8 years and then I went to ah down to WENE and there I would not—I persuaded ah Tom Watson, Mr. Watson that he needed me very badly and that I didn’t want to go under the name of IBM because I would have to be so, you know, so strict about what I said so he just gave me a little note to Charlie Curtin and he says, “Give Dorothy what she wants for money,” and we put it under the Endicott Chamber of Commerce and I worked there almost 9 years and I made very good money there and I was sent all over doing things and ah then I told you about oh and I was also on this Empire State Housing and Renewal Board for 3 years that ah Rockefeller started and they built Ely Park, they were—I was on that Board for a while and I guess that’s all that I did and— Dan: Now when you ah took over ah the ah—you were Chairman of the ah Housing Board, is that right? Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Was that your title? Mrs. Titchener: Chairman of Housing Authority. Dan: Of Housing Authority. Now Carlisle and ah Saratoga Heights had already been built but you were instrumental in building 25 Exchange Street and Isbell? Mrs. Titchener: Yes, yes it’s 45 Exchange. Dan: 45 Exchange, yes. Now the funding of the housing units, is that ah on a percentage basis—so much by City, so much by the State? Mrs. Titchener: Well the State, the State furnishes ah moving for the State problems, the State division and the State ones are Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights are both State— Dan: Funded. Mrs. Titchener: Funded, but the funding is in this matter—you are the first year because you hadn’t made anything yet and you’ve got very low income and you can’t possibly pay all your debts so you were given a subsidy but then you cut that down every year. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And finally at the end we weren’t getting any subsidy—we were self-sufficient and when I left the Housing Authority, we owed $13.00 and I understand now from the papers that they owe some 37 or 47 thousand. Dan: You better get back in it. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, any day. Dan: Now the same thing is applied with Isbell and Exchange Street. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: So that was subsidized— Mrs. Titchener: And we cut it down every year and we do pay taxes to the City of Binghamton. Dan: In other words diminished ah diminishing subsidization. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, right and we do pay taxes but because we pay ah 10% of our rent with the utilities subtracted, because we give them utilities. We take the total cost of utilities at the end of the year, the telephone is not provided but their gas and their heat, electricity—that’s all provided. We take the cost of that and then what is left from that we take 10% of the balance and pay to the City in the form of a tax. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And I argued with ah always had my picture taken presenting them with a check for the newspapers because everyone said, “Oh we’re paying for all this.” Well now that is not necessary if you have good management. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: And I had such a marvelous board—it was not—I was the one who sparked them—who did things because I just can’t wait to unfurl about 20 yards of red tape—that annoys me so I just do it and tell them afterwards. That was really true, but the Board was so good. Dan: Isbell Street and Exchange Streets went so smoothly. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ah is so much so that in contrast with Woodburn Court—now everything has been torn down and— Mrs. Titchener: Now Woodburn Court, I really was against doing that. What I wanted in Woodburn Court and tried very hard to get it—in fact I had a personal check from a large industry in this community of $100,000 as seed money and I tried very hard to get them to make it—if you say Halfway House, you think of something alcoholic—I wanted an intermediary place where some of the elderly people who live in Exchange, who can no longer care for their apartments, could move with some care ah have ah have their meals prepared and have a dining room and have their meals prepared and have it a transition from that to going into some home which they ultimately have to go to or else a hospital or something of that nature. So that’s what I tried very hard to have Woodburn Court and they turned me down and of course I had to fight with City Council for everything we got. We had to put on a floor show and just ram it down their throats. Dan: Do you think the delay has been the lack of communication between the Mayor and City Council? Mrs. Titchener: I really don’t know that I have a—I did not fight for Woodburn Court because when I lost interest I had, I gave the check back to the organization because it was nearing the end of my time and I worked very hard and I’ve had fights and fights and fights with the City Council and I was expecting my paper, my picture in the paper upside down or something. Dan: There seems to be so much of wasted land there on Susquehanna Street with no provisions made for the future. Mrs. Titchener: I think that Woodburn Court probably will be successful but I think the Exchange Street is going to suffer by it because everybody from there who can go into Woodburn Court is going to move there. Dan: Yeah, will the tenants of Woodburn Court, ah, have to meet the same qualifications? Mrs. Titchener: No they have—that’s on another Federal program—that’s a Federal project and that’s on another program—I can’t tell you the number ah they’re always talking numbers to me and then I would have to go to my little Bible and look it up because I was too old something you know but they are being subsidized partially—their rent is being subsidized by the Federal people and they are paid for the for the ah the person who is building it—the builder can’t afford of course—things have gone up so now. Dan: Sure. Mrs. Titchener: If that had been built 7 years ago it would have been better but it wasn’t and I really don’t know why. I know there were all sorts of reasons probably but I never pushed it. I never, I had nothing to do with Woodburn Court, in fact I hoped it wouldn’t be built because i thought, I think that ah Exchange Street is having trouble enough now. Dan: Yeah. Mrs. Titchener: They’re always advertising for apartments and we had a waiting list of 300 people and they were so jealous of that waiting list, they’d call, you know, ask where they were on it and we really, we really stuck to that but I don’t know I, I really don’t know as I say I don’t go down there. I thought that I would have a lot of fun because I had many friends there and I would visit them but I was told to stay out and I have stayed out and I don’t know I think there may have been some sort of personal jealousy, I don’t know, but I know everything with my name on it, even little things that said, “Please don’t put your garbage in the hall,” even little notices like that have been destroyed—anything that had my name attached to it. That, I don’t know why but I guess I’m that controversial type of person and they didn’t want any part of it—that’s it—but I did love it and it gave me the greatest satisfaction next to my own children and then the last thing I have done is my book. I have to get that in because I’ve had so many, so many honors and so one day my daughter called me up one night and she said, “You know, Mother, you’re gonna die.” I said, “Are you figuring on tonight or something like that?” She said, “No, I thought you’re always writing poetry and you stick it around and we’re going to drop it all down the incinerator,” so that made me mad so I decided to do this and I’ve been trying to think of some way to repay this community for the wonderful things they have done for me so I dedicated my book—I call it Seasoning and dedicated it to Jim, Ann and Jean and their families who have seasoned my life with joy and then I said Foreword: “This small book is a gift. It is my way to say Thank You to the many agencies for whom I have worked, who have so graciously honored me in the past and hopefully will bring some pleasure to my countless acquaintances and warm personal friends.” So I didn’t sell the book—I had it printed at my expense and then gave it to these organizations to sell for their own charities and Sertoma took some and BPW and Zonta and the church had some and various other organizations asked for them and I ordered a hundred and I thought I could never get rid of a hundred and the printer said to me, “I have to do the whole thing alone”—my children were going to help me and they all left and so I had to pick out the design and I had to do the printing and the paper and you know, pick the whole thing out and put it all in and I had my children all in here—they had all done something—they’re all here in the back. Anyway I had a lot of fun doing it and then I have it and they had made enough money, lots of them, to do really fine things because they were selling them for $5.00 and I was not, at my age, going to start out selling books. So anyway this is the way I did it and I feel in a way that I had paid back some of the wonderful things that really I, I just can’t say enough about how much has been done for me. Dan: Well everything has been deserved, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: I don’t know, I don’t know. Dan: On one last note—the naming of Titchener Hall? Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes. Dan: At Broome Community College. Mrs. Titchener: That was wonderful. Ah Paul, of course, was the organizer, he was the founder and went to ah Governor Dewey and persuaded him that this would be necessary and that was fine and then he was the first Chairman of the Board there and he was Chairman for many years. So when he retired ah he asked to be able to name a successor—to name a couple of people and that’s when Darwin Wales went on as Chairman because he was a great friend of Paul and is a great friend of mine. So they gave this dinner and in the meantime they had a painting painted of Paul by ah ah, next door—what’s his name ah you know the man next door—the artist—his wife Mae, he runs Roberson? Dan: Martin. Mrs. Titchener: Martin, anyway he painted this portrait of Paul and he painted without Paul knowing it and they showed it at this dinner. Well it was very stern and ah Paul wasn’t too pleased with it nor I because—but he did allow us to make some changes and we did make changes and now it is very fine and so they named Titchener Hall for him and that was in January, that this party was in January. They had a big party and Paul was very happy but we were going around the world. We had our way paid all the way around and I like to tell this because of the kindness of people. We had reservations in almost every country we went to in several places because Paul liked very much—he was a very man who wanted everything right and he always had to just get it right. Dan: Uh huh—very methodical. Mrs. Titchener: Excuse me, the point was that ah I wrote to all of them when he died very suddenly, without any warning whatsoever on the Wednesday before we were to leave on Friday. So I wrote all these places and I received every cent of money back even from—the last ones to give it back were the fares from the who was here right in this country but Cooks was the last ones to pay back. They said, they called me said, “It’d have to be something final,” and I said, “Well if death isn’t final, would you kindly tell me what is?” and they sent the money and so I got— Dan: Isn’t that a shame? 3 days before you were ready to leave. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, we were all packed and everything else all ready to go but in a way he would have been miserable because he was a very active man. He had a job—he was going to run Housing for the City and he had a job in City Hall and when he came back he was looking forward to doing this—that’s one reason I went into this so wholeheartedly after he died because I thought maybe I’m left to do the things that he never had the opportunity to do. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: Because he really was, he was a very—some people were afraid of him because he had a rather severe, austere appearance but he had a great sense of humor and from, when I became President, nominated President of the State, I asked him if he wanted me to do it because it meant I would have to be away nights quite a lot to travel around to the various clubs for dinners and he said, “Well Dot, I’d rather have dust under my bed than dust in your head”—just was a cute remark. Dan: It ah it was a blessing in disguise that it didn’t happen while you were— Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes, not only that but he would have been, he had ah really a hemorrhage very similar to what ah Franklin Roosevelt had—it was completely devastating and he would have been a vegetable had he survived and that would have not been for such. Now this book is a very personal book—it’s simply about my family and about the things I love out of doors. It’s not anything that anyone although people have been very kind to say they like it but and I have ah something from Karen Schmitt—I have one from each family—something that they have written. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And ah that’s very nice. I have my own self portrait here and then I have something, mostly written to my family and ah things of that kind and that’s what I did with it and the BPW on my 80th birthday gave me a birthday party and they told me they had given all the money they have received from this book to the ah New York State Scholarship Fund which pleased me a great deal. Dan: From what was that? Mrs. Titchener: Received from this book—the Business and Professional Women’s Club. So they sent that, sent the money that they received from selling their books. So I thought that I had accomplished something for both of us that I have the pleasure of having done it and this is purely personal—I have my children, none of them live here, none of them so I’m always alone holidays. So I decided on my 80th birthday, I’d have it at Thanksgiving, which would be better weather and I brought them all here and I brought them from 7 states and they were here 4 days and I had to put some up in motels because obviously haven’t room here and I had them for 4 days and we had breakfast and lunch here and then dinners we went out. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And it happened to be my youngest grandson’s birthday on Thanksgiving, so we had his birthday party and mine at the ah restaurant and had a marvelous time. I don’t think I went to bed for 4 nights because we stayed up and talked and laughed and I have, I have a controversial family I say they have inherited more of me than their more conservative father and we just ripped the roof off—completely (laughter). So will that simple note unless you have something more to ask me. Dan: Well you’re a very remarkable woman Mrs. Titchener, I certainly appreciate your consenting to this interview. Mrs. Titchener: Well I’ve enjoyed it. I like to do things if it, it will be helpful. Dan: It certainly will be. Mrs. Titchener: And thanks loads. I’ve enjoyed, I’ve enjoyed doing it very much and I want to thank the Action for Elderly for thinking this up. Dan: Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dorothy Titchener Subject The topic of the resource Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity; Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Description An account of the resource Dorothy Titchener speaks about her life including her marriage to Paul Titchener, the founder of <a href="http://www1.sunybroome.edu/">Broome Community College</a>, and working twenty years as chairman of the Housing Authority. She mentions her affiliation with the Business and Professional Women's Club and their efforts to nominate <a href="http://www.aauw.org/2013/11/21/judge-sarah-tilghman-hughes/">Judge Sarah Hughes</a> as Vice President during the Eisenhower-Taft election. She lists among her acquaintances individuals, such as, President and Mrs. Franklin D. Roosevelt and <a href="http://www.hallofgovernors.ny.gov/NelsonRockefeller">Governor Rockefeller</a>. She also details her achievements with the Girl Scouts Council and purchasing a lake, named Amahami, as a camp for the Girl Scouts club.   She mentions her affiliation with the  Junior League and Business and Professional Women's Club, as well as other local organizations. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/m4a Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 61A ; Recording 61B; Recording 61C Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Titchener, Dorothy ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:54 Minutes ; 11:28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/ff3332aa443b300f60d6fcd8d50afc2c.mp3 5c2eee48a3c8c97326c1de601cab050d https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/42607e87dfe531aec07be626b10d3ffc.mp3 04e0be1c08a8c0c397d5569e9040fd4c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Benson, Carl S. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-06-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Benson, Carl S. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Colgate University; World War, 1939-1945; American Legion; Binghamton General Hospital; Lourdes Hospital; Hancock Hospital; Shriners; Lions Club International Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55822">Interview with Dr. Carl S. Benson</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Carl S. Benson Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 8 June 1978 Susan: Dr. Benson, could we start this interview by having you tell us where you were born, something about your parents, and any of your recollections of your childhood? Dr. Benson: That's easy. I was born on 5 King Ave., between Walnut and, ah, and it's on the west side. It's between, ah, Walnut and St. John. My mother and father came from Sweden—my mother from the north of Sweden and my father from the south of Sweden. Mother talked very much about having come from the place where the King used to spend his summers out in the open, and my grandfather, I realize now, was the man that insulated and fortified the iron mines of Sweden so that if anybody attempted to take over, they merely blew up the bridges and they had so much trouble getting the iron ore out that they never did. They met here in Binghamton, my father being from the south of Sweden and my mother from the north. I always kidded mother about stealing her sister’s girl—boyfriend, but they had a rather happy life together ’til mother overdid and showed herself to me as a medical problem, which I had a lot of fun solving. As for me, I went to St. John Ave. School. I had only one sister, Ruth, who was five years older than I was and followed the same trail, and the thing I think you would enjoy the most was that I was constantly reminded that I wasn't supposed to be relying on somebody else, I was supposed to dig it out for myself and I was supposed to keep going no matter what happened. My father was a tailor, so-called merchant tailor at a time when there wasn't any such things as ready-made clothes, and part of the fun was that I, in the early grades in school, wore tailor-made clothes, and often got in trouble with the teachers because they couldn't understand why the clothes I had on made so much noise with their corduroy knees banging each other, and actually asked me if I didn't have any other clothes I could wear to school. Today I'd like to have such good clothes back. Work—I can remember the very funny things that happened, there was the time somebody stole our Thanksgiving dinner that we had carelessly put on top of the refrigerator, on top—on the back porch at 5 King Ave. We didn't get much to eat that day. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of time trying to find it. One of the stories that might interest you was that the man on the corner, who was a horse tailor, got after me to prove that he knew more about the things than I did and my father did, and said of course we grew horses and horses’ barns. He said, didn't I realize if I planted a cigar box and watered it regularly every day, in about six weeks it ought to come up and show me a horse barn that I could be proud of? So I tried it, and at the end of four weeks he told me, didn't I know the top from the bottom? So I dug it up and turned it over, and it wasn't ’til the six weeks were well up that—he never admitted, just said I got the wrong kind of cigar box. You see these queer things, for instance his office—his, where he fixed leather and did all this stuff was on State Street behind Sissons, and in front of it was the old canal. My father lives on—worked on the other side in the Bosket Block, and that was the way life was treated. They were both equal—now do we get a rest? I started school at St. John Ave. School, and I can still see our kindergarten and our first grade where Bill and Ed Keeler and some of the—the rest of the boys were sure that if they took their hands and folded them around the side ways, they could see what was going on the room and it was just as good as having them sit, as well as having them sit on the edge of the stage—of the desk. One of the boys, Doff Kane, just followed one of the girls out of the kindergarten and it wasn't ’til two days later that we found out that he had gone on, and supposed to have been promoted anyway because he was older than the rest of us. Third grade was fine ’cause of the exercises, we got up on the desks. We gathered up books as being bricks, stones, and we went through all the stories of the Iliad, the Romans and their troubles, and threw the books on the floor just with a grand abandon that made it a great life. We really enjoyed Mrs. Tillapough's teachings. I could go on, teach and tell you about each of the other kids, each of the other teachers just as well, of course. Miss Hunt was the principal but we never had any trouble with her, we didn't know enough to. She kept us busy and we kept her busy and that's all that was necessary. ’Course, we had her nephew in the class with us. Maybe that helped us stay out of trouble. From the sixth grade we moved over to Laurel Ave. under old Professor Johnson for our seventh—seventh grade, and that was when I used to ride a bicycle across to school. It was quite a ways down from where we were over to Laurel Ave. But that was when we had all the fun, nobody knew what to do, nobody cared. Then we went on to high school. We had the eighth, ninth and tenth, eleventh and twelfth over in high school. No, not the high school you people know about, but in the same place until we wore the building out, or they thought we did or said we wouldn't get a new one if they didn't stop using it, and then I remember when they decided to close it up. They put the letters, the colors and the letters of the class on the school. We got up on the fourth floor on the fire hatches, handed two-by-fours to throw down if the other class got in our way or started to come after us. Instead one of the boys got the fire hoses out of the Front Street fire department, and we had a grand time watching them walk up and chop those hoses to stop the water so they could get at us. Now I got to get back to teaching at our school. It seems to me that I must have been along about the fourth or fifth grade when I started to, to doing some work on the outside. Maybe it was younger, but I was delivering flowers for Oshier up on 148 Court Street. If it was a long shag I got 10¢ for it. If it was a short shag I got 5¢, and he always used to kid me on how much money I took down at the end of the week for a guy that was just riding around on a bicycle. I would almost get, I think, on the average of five dollars, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, depending on how business was. Then he disappeared and I got shipped down to Graham. Graham's Florist Shop was in Wally Webster’s Drug Store, which was 45 Court Street, next door to the corner of Walnut—uh, uh, Washington Street and Court. Wally said the smart thing to do is to buy buildings next to the corners or where, if anybody was going to increase the size of their place, they'd have to take your place in—in that way you'd make money on any enlargement of the town without having too much invested—that was where I learned that if you stole old-time tombstones and you poured a little acid on them, that’d make pretty good soda, and that's what you gave people in place of soda on their ice cream. Ice cream was worth 10¢ or sometimes 5¢, sometimes less. Those were in the days when we used to see these special men come through. The automobile stage was just starting to grow, and there was one man that had a small two-seated or one-seated buggy but he had his wheels on, his pulling wheels on backwards, and therefore the horse was behind you and pushed you forward, and he took—took that, I imagine he'd go pretty fast too, but he was just advertising a new kind of ice cream or a new kind of soft drink. Made quite something to work with. Then, I got interested in other work. The morning newspaper came along, ’course the business belonged to Carl Legg's father, and then he sold it and that brought it out in the open. When I used to go to dances in high school I'd used to have to get up before two o'clock, and we didn't get home much before that, in order to get over and roll the singles for the old morning paper. I'd roll about fifty of those and then lay down on the bags—the mail bags, then get up and carry the longest route up to the top of Mount Prospect and into the old tavern up Front Street next to Prospect Street. That's where they give you the description of the real early things that happened here in Binghamton. My father and I used to argue a lot about Court Street bridges, boats, and spent a good many nice days in the summer pushing a rowboat up and down the Chenango River, borrowing it from Mr. Ritz, or renting it, rather, from Mr. Ritz at the corner of Laurel Ave. and the river. You never knew just what you were going to get into. We had one island that we called Violet Island. We had another island that was a little bit tough to get at, but you went out where the Fourth Ward sewer came in. You always got a little bit dirty. You went out, rode up, then down, and landed on an island. Dad and I always called it our island. Then we had to hunt up the other way. There was always something to think about. If you went up the Chenango, and I've tried and took my canoe, later, up to Port Dick and all the way to Lilly Lake and right up the river, right back down. I left it in Port Dick for a whole summer. I had a lot of fun. We'd sneak around behind a barn, loosed up underneath the barn, drop it into the water, then climb in, then go around the landing to show that we were there. It's a wonderful thing and always we worried about the Chenango River, and then we remembered that there was an old man named Mr. Whittemore that got my interest first in steamboats, because he told me about the steamboat that used to come up the Chenango River—Susquehanna River and Chenango River from Owego every spring, did it for a number of years and the people came up and went down, but in my early days we usually caught the train at about eight o'clock on Saturday night, went down to Owego and then took the boat up as far as Ouaquaga, as Hiawatha Island, or on up further to the endings in Hickory Grove. That was a beautiful stretch in those days. I've heard them talk about it a good many times before my time, but I was too busy working to pay much attention to riding around in it. Then I remembered what Dad had told me about Court Street bridge. It seems that the boats used to come up and stop against those big trees that used to be back of McDevitt’s, so I had to find out about it. Find out what it was, what was happening, and why the end of it there was so little, not big enough, and I did, I stuck my neck in it. Before the bridge was finished or built, there was a ferry that used to come across there, and that tied up just above where the bridge came in and came across the river, almost straight, and stopped about where Main Street or Court Street is, and you could load and unload to catch the bridge, er, to catch the ferry. The next thing that happened was that they commenced to fuss about wanting to do something, and it was because they didn't like the way in which things were done. I know my Dad at that time said he had a chance to buy the old farm that ran all the way down to about where the Lourdes Hospital is and up as far as Leroy Street and down to the river and down to the junction and back up to about Leroy Street. Can't remember the name of the farm right now, but Dad was very seriously interested in buying it and he was going to get that land for $2,000. The people that sold it went over to Quaker Lake. They had a place over there too but I don't remember the name. Then we had to worry about why all these strange things were set up around Main Street, and when I checked up, Sam Wear said his father had a bar there for years, in fact, he said there were five bars between Front Street and the Chenango River. Maybe that accounts for their going after the law, because I understand that's when they got to work—that's when they got to work and built the church at Wal—at, ah, Front Street and Main Street. It took me a long time to figure it out, then I found the ruling, any territory with a church in it cannot have a saloon or a bar within 125 feet of the front door of the church—now that old rule has been in for a long time and probably accounts for why four of the five things disappeared, unless somebody has forgotten the laws. The thing that counts in remembrance is that when we came to building the Sheraton, the Ramada, and the rest of the new hotels that were wanted to be near the water just across the bridge, they all of a sudden stopped and moved them a block away. I think I know the reason, because I looked up some of the deeds on lower Main Street and over on Front Street, and they all contained this record that no building can be put across south of Main and Front—er, Court Street, unless it's far enough away and unless there is an opening through it left down to the river so that people can take their animals to the ford and across the river. That's why you'll find that big mark in the bottom of the Treadway building. I remember also that we built a very lovely little park on the end of Wall Street, and Wall Street was connected with this other stuff but people all forgot it and it disappeared. I wonder how many people remember its name. It was Carmen Park, and while I'm speaking about parks, we had one over on the south side wherein there was a tree for every man killed in World War II and a nameplate on it, but I was over there the other day, and God, if we can go through big wars like World War II with no more losses than that, we better stick up in the first ranks, because I assure you I couldn't find enough trees or enough plaques to justify our even having been considered as being in World War II. Now I think we ought to look up and see whether this new business about extending the high school and shutting off the ford, with kids coming from high school and with a parking lot and with some other things like that, can be done any better and any more legally than shutting it off for hotels and places to eat, particularly when the city is kinda short of money.  It was during these times when I was wandering around town that we all got wrapped up in cigar bands, and we used to argue as to whether it was smarter to stop in the cigar factories—which were on Wall Street, Water Street, State Street was solid from Court to Henry—and see if we couldn't buy, beg, or steal a few cigar bands that were out of the ordinary so we could make money. As a matter of fact, there was a lot of them that were so out of the ordinary that if you found the owner and he had a smile on his face, he would give you half a dozen and then your collection would be way, way above your friends. We had as many as 56 cigar factories around here, then they commenced to get into the factory kind where it wasn't made by hand, it was made by machinery, and the last one I remember being here into this part of the country was the General Cigar factory down on Court Street—er, Main Street, down near Johnson City—that worked for a few years. The problem was that we got much poorer tobacco for a while. If you've traveled up through Canada and seen the various shades of tobacco and seen the various kinds, you realize that it's not a bad crop to grow. It's quite nice, and if you've hunted around the old barns down below Owego and seen the openings in the sides of the barns where they drain and let the tobacco leaves dry, you will quickly get established in your own mind what a handy comfortable thing it is, but it requires a lot of work and we had just the people to roll them and not the people to grow them—maybe that’s why we lost it and then we had to get, so many of our women folks had to get tied up in cigarettes and anxious about cigarettes and they could buy them all rolled so they didn't look different, a lot cheaper, or rather a lot more expensively than we could cigars. High school and schools in Binghamton, it seems funny to talk about them. There was a little girl named Alice VanMoon, and she beat me by half a point when we went up to St. John, er, to Laurel Ave., and on down into high school. I know I could have caught her, but she went and moved away. Oh, so I had to go on, and I graduated as Valedictorian, I think, when I graduated from high school. It was a big problem to remember because I was working all the time on the side, and despite the fact that I worked from 2 o'clock in the morning up ’til school time. I worked after school until 7 or 8 o'clock at night, I thought I was pretty darn lucky when I got in twelve-thirteen dollars a week—as an adult, maybe after I got into college, I realized more about it. I had $285.00 in my pocket when I left for college. If I hadn't been fortunate enough to find some friends up there who knew where the cheap places to eat were—because I remember the chap that went with me, he was a teacher afterwards at Cornell. We paid $1.60 apiece for two rooms—one to study in and one to sleep in—and around the corner we paid $4, and then $4.50, and then $4.60, and then $4.90, for a place to have our three meals a day in comfort. Of course it was the crowd that was there that made it interesting because many of them were inclined to head for the ministry, and many long were the sermons that got preached at us while we sat there waiting to see what was going to happen, but if anybody was hungry they were taken care of, and you could buy a roast beef sandwich for 10¢. You could buy—we were lucky from Binghamton. We could go over to the Candy Kitchen and Jimmy the Greek would say, "I remember you." We'd say, "Yes, and we’re thirsty."  "Wait a minute," and he'd give us an ice cream so we wouldn't feel too bad about it, and we appreciated his kindness. Money wasn't essential. Fifteen cents would take you to the movies. You could always borrow from somebody if you needed to. There wasn't enough girls, but what you had was a good alibi that there wasn't any girls to get so you didn't have one, and I think maybe that's the thing that made life worthwhile, because it certainly made us study a lot more than we would have otherwise. Then we would go on, and I still remember even at my decrepit old age that my first year in Colgate, from the time I left in September to go ’til I came back in June, having finished one year, cost me $496.16. I think maybe that's a record, because I remember my last year in medicine cost me over $1100 or pretty damn close, and I know that's not counting the fact that I worked in the fraternity house and I took care of the animals—the research animals for both physiology, biology. That's why I had to wear a mustache, because one of them got mad and caught me on the upper chin, er, upper lip, and it was a lot better having it covered by hair than not having it covered at all. There are many stories I could tell you about the faculty of Colgate. It was one of the grandest bunch of men I ever knew despite the fact there were a lot of wonderful queer characters. There was Johnny Green, who always bobbed around at us, flashed his eyes back an’ forth and said that if he exercised his eyes enough, that he wouldn't have to wear glasses, and then he had a man who was his assistant, very big dignified fat man that always put his paws down in front of you as though he was going to bite you, Spencer, but he wouldn't. He'd scare the hell out of you. Then I could go on and talk about the rest. My particular sidekick in these days was Bill Turner, six foot tall, a big bass voice, a bachelor. He took care of his mother and sister and always acted as though something was going to push him around into something. He was so afraid that people would misunderstand him, get him into trouble. He even came to me once and said, "I'm going to quit," and I said, "Well, let me look things over a bit for you." And I says, "No, you're not going to quit. You're going to work a little harder than you have worked and you're gonna do it more this way and you aren't gonna get mixed up with so many people." And when he came to me five years later and said, "I'm gonna quit," I said, "Yep, you’re gonna quit now, but not before. You hadn't finished your job." It's a wonderful feeling to be able to say I helped a professor as much as they helped me, but I didn't, because he and his mother and his sister fed me Sunday night’s dinner for a good many years. God knows I couldn't sing, I couldn't do anything else, but I traveled with the Glee Club with the sublime feeling that I didn't have to worry because he told me, "Make your mouth go big, smile good, and for God's sakes, if anybody’s out of tune, shut up.” Now let’s stop a minute. It seems that along about my sophomore year in Colgate I got on the pan, and I never blamed them. I suddenly decided, figuring closely that they were going to let me have my degree in three years, why couldn't I do three years’ work in two and a half—get the degree? And to go on, I made the mistake that so many young fellows do, and old fellows maybe, of thinking that rubber stamping something and throwing it over your shoulder makes it get in your head. It doesn't, and I remember when Dr. McGregory and Dr. Bryant and Cookie Cutter and a few of the others, Brigham, looked at me point blank when I said I wanted to get through in three years, and they argued that it wasn't for my benefit to get through in three years—I'd do better if I stayed four—and I decided that eating those last year was kind of important and much more important than just getting through, so when Hog said that he wouldn't allow for it and he was objecting to it, I said, "OK, Dr. McGregory, just for that, I'll major in your subjects and give you every opportunity to flunk me you can get." He tried to talk me out of taking a couple of subjects instead. But I got through in three years, and they were probably the happiest three years I have ever spent, because Colgate is a beautiful, wonderful institution. I'm glad Craig went there. Afterwards I was tempted or persuaded and almost sure that I was going to go to Cornell in order to get my medicine, but I looked around and I saw that Cornell started a class at Ithaca and a class in New York, and at the end of the year without saying anything you just became half out and half as big as you were before, so I didn't think that was very good, and then Sukie Higgerman said I was nuts. And I started for Buffalo where John, Dr. John Lappious, had helped me get registered. Well, I arrived out there on the train, then went up the street to High Street. I went in, they were very nice to me but I still don't know who saw me—who had anything to do about it, what happened to me, and I think maybe it was the fact that my class, instead of being seventy-six, succeeded in rounding up nineteen for our first year. So, you see, if they do raise the requirements there is a very definite reason for it. Then I had to snoop around and see if I could get a job. Didn't get anywheres on that ’til somethin’ happened down in the so-called jail and the Erie County Penitentiary because of the flu, because of the—because of the, and in came the flu—a most gorgeous mess. So, I had to eat and live, so John took me down to the penitentiary, and they looked at me and took off my soft hat—my, ah, cap, insisted I wear a soft hat—and I was fully signed in as a doctor in the Erie County Penitentiary, which became famous afterwards—after having had three weeks of medicine. Well the first thing I did was told I oughta clean up the drug room—so I started to, and got some nice little country boy. Didn't know why he was in jail, but he did the cleaning with me and helped me, and he'd light my cigars and gave me his tobacco. God, it was awful—couldn't touch it—but he was very proud of being an associate of mine. That was when I had my funny time, when I met the Diamond Lill fame—when I met a lot of other unusual people. Diamond Lill was an operator in a carnival, and in her teeth she had two diamonds—above and one below, so that she could smile as she did the loop the loop on a bicycle and hoped that she was sober to keep on the track. I always remember when they—Dr. Frost, who was in charge, said, "Why hello—when did you—how long you've been back?" and she says, "Why, Doctor—why, you know—I haven't been out yet." This was the kind of stories we would hear. Then we found out if somebody got into a mess that they were more afraid than we were, so we went on and enjoyed it, and that's when I made a reputation, because the waiter, who was a prisoner, leaned over my shoulder one night and wanted to know if I had any good cathartics. I said, "Yes," and rolled him off a half dozen of C.C. pills, asked if he knew how to take them and he said, "Yeah," so I went on back to quarters. The next day I didn't have anybody waiting on me as a waiter, and the day after I didn't have anybody waiting on me as a waiter, but on the third day, when I sat down in my chair, I noticed that I was taken care of when the chief wasn't, and over my shoulder came a faint whisper saying, "You sure do handle powerful drugs, sir.” Buffalo—that's the place where I was supposed to learn medicine. I guess I did. Leastwise I'm still studying it to find out if I didn't. It's hard to understand the study of medicine. My sidekick, the first one, had been a chemist in Canada, got chased down by the police, so on and so forth, so he taught me chemistry and I was supposed to teach him, well, I guess the rest of the stuff. Another chap took the anatomy. I took physiology, pharmacology, and that's the way we divided up our work, so we all had the chance to pile in as much as we wanted to and learn from each other. My class in medicine started out as nineteen. We lost a bunch and brought a bunch up from Fordham University our sophomore year, and then we stayed about the same and only lost one, making it twenty-five instead of twenty-six our senior year, but then the fight came for internships, and what an interesting story it was. They wanted me to go to the Edward Meyer Memorial [Hospital] in Buffalo and I said "No.” I wanted the General, and if I couldn't have The General, I was going down to Blockley in Philadelphia—of course I didn't know anybody in Blockley—I never did get there—I never saw the inside of the place, but Dr. Ryman from our class, from the class ahead of me, went down. [End of Tape I] [Tape II] Dr. Benson: They gave me a royal ride also on internship, because they handed me a fraternity pin when I was already wearing a fraternity pin and asked me if I had lost that in the nurses’ home and would I please tell them which room it belonged in, for sarcasm. Oh, the full money that we were to receive for one year of work, starting at about 8:30 or 8 o'clock every morning and maybe getting one or two evenings after seven out, but otherwise knowing that we were on call all night long, was a very valuable swapping proposition. We got three suits of white clothes. I don't imagine they would be, would be worth something today. I think they were linen, but in those days we didn't think much of them. No socks, no underwear—we had to find that from someplace else—and four meal—three meals and a lunch, and we went on pretty well living but it was damned embarrassing. You didn't have any money to spend. You didn't have any cigars unless you inherited them or somebody gave them to you. Cigarettes were out of question and the nurses got more money than we did, but it was fun. I always remember that at 10 o'clock at night they came around with lunch, usually big pieces of chocolate cake, and after Mary Storm, the night superintendent, had gotten in wrong, the second time we posted ourselves in very advantageous positions, and when we saw her coming, somebody yelled and we all ran out in the hall looking back—looking the other way—and turn around suddenly, and we actually hit her broadside with no less than nine out of the twelve pieces of chocolate cake. Nice treatment for a supervising nurse. I got the blame for the whole thing and rightly so. Then we had to have some parties. ’Course we were learning a lot, and at the parties we took, yes, we took the big machine TV—we took it upstairs to the private operating room and we had a dance and a lovely concert and a lovely time. We pushed the thing out on the roof to hide it, and the only thing they got mad at was, they were afraid we were trying to start a fire to roast some hot dogs on the roof and they couldn't see the sense that we could stake the fire out. Then I got caught riding down the aisle with so and so on my shoulder when I walked into Mary Storm, the night superintendent—of course the fact that we had stolen the liquor from the training school office the day before didn't make any difference. She wanted to talk to the girl, so I put her down in front of her and let her talk. When I heard she was sending the girl home the next day, I went to the training school office and said, “Don’t blame the girl, blame me—she had nothing to do, she was just sitting on my shoulder.” So, it was fun. The next year—my second year I went out to Meyer Memorial, and what a glorious time I had. I was supposed to have three months of contagion, three months of TB, and six months of medicine, especially cardiology. What did I end up with? I ended up with one month added on, of venereal diseases. I ended up with two months off from contagious diseases. I ended up with particular care on pediatrics, which is a whole lot of kids, and I ended up with most of the rest of my time on cardiology and doing it all, oh, yes, one month I was in Boston. It was a lot of fun but you never knew what was gonna happen to you the next day, and then I finished and the big scramble came. Dr. Green said I was getting hospitalized. I was having too good a time in hospitals, and time I got out and earned a living. The rest of them didn't dare disagree with him because he was the chief, so I did, and the first thing I knew, I was running a sanitarium in Dansville that belonged to doctors. That was when they looked at me and said that anybody [who] could vault over the cushions and seats and chairs and couches in a fashionable place, or turn somersaults over them, certainly couldn't know medicine. Of course I lost those patients, but I made up for it, and travel I did, back and forth, all around, and finally I came back to Binghamton. That’s when I had my big surprises—even my father seemed to think it was time I went to work, and Mother couldn't understand why I took two weeks of sitting on the hills around the town thinking, figuring out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it and how I was going to do this and how I was going to do that. I started to set up an office on 104 Oak Street, I well remember to this day. My mother decided that, ah, in as much as they had helped educate me and do things for me, that I was going to supply her with amusements for the rest of her life because she was going to sit and watch me work—of course, that didn't work. She got mad at me because I tried. Then Harry came down from Buffalo, tried to give me a check for $50,000 to set up the kind of an office I wanted. I could easily have spent the money but I didn't think I should, because after all, so far all I had received from running the sanitarium was a couple of, three, four blank checks asking me to please put my amount—they were all signed down—and tell them how much I wanted for my work. Nobody ever raised any questions about it and I went over the stuff in the kitchen every day to see if there was anything better I could eat. Didn't do much good, though, ’cause Dr. Goodell's wife was with me as superintendent or something, and then W. George left me and the fellow that come in his place [who] was supposed to be trained as a hotel man happened to be a Christian Scientist, and I've heard that I had the ability to drive anybody nuts, but the next day, when I watched him plunge from a six-story building down onto the ground and splatter around the floor, I wasn't too happy. I hated to think it was my fault. It really wasn't, but it's something I'll never forget by the fact in that time I had an all—all-American swimming instructor. She didn't like me and I didn't care very much for her, but I had one, and I had a staff that was quite remarkable. The old place had established the Boulaire Baths. I had a training school office of about twelve, and I was supposed to teach physiotherapy massage and the various things, I don't know—I think it was just something to keep me from being lonesome, but then I went on home just because they were unkind enough to try to move my folks up to the sanitarium and give them private quarters just to be with me. Now we ready to start the practice of medicine. My God, when you start to think about it, I remember the first thing I did was to talk to the man at Norwich Pharmacal, and he came up and he said, "Well you'll need a lot of this and a lot of that and a lot of this and a lot of that." He said, "I've got a wife that's sick. I want you to take care of her." And I did, and we both fared pretty good. I fared better than he did. His wife died, and I still found some medicine from there the other day when I shut the place up and my office died. Then I became fascinated in studying the various things that happened. I never did find out where I got all the degrees I got after my name. I know there are two others I can't even think of, but somebody told me if you got enough of the alphabet dearranged, never had to know any of it because you'd say, "Yeah, I think so,” and that would be more important than trying to be smart. Yes, I've spent a lot of time hanging around Rochester trying to learn somethin’, and even when I was out in the west, out to Ann Arbor, and when the man that was supposed to have this nice course in electrocardiography looked at me and said, "What the hell do you want to take it for? You know more about it than I do now," I didn't agree with him, or it made me feel awful good to hear him say it. Money—they tell me I've made a lot of it, lost a lot of it. I think the funniest thing was in World War II—er, World War I—when I got back from World War I, Uncle Sam wrote me a letter and said, "We don't think you're able to afford to put as much of your money into insurance as you are doing." I never argued with them. I think he was right but the funny part is that insurance has all disappeared and then the other batch that I had, that's disappeared, so maybe someday somebody will find a way to have me put away insurance as they say I can't now. Nobody ever had more fun in medicine than I did. Nobody ever worked any harder. It's not a plaything. It's a real honest-to-God tough job, but the satisfaction of knowing that you're doing something for other people to help them is the greatest satisfaction in the world. Yes, here in town I had the cardiology at the Binghamton General Hospital. I was on cardiology at Lourdes. I was offered the job of laboratory man at Wilson and at the General. I was a cardiologist at Hancock, but the fun was in trying to diagnose and make up the things when nobody else knew what to do and how to do it. What you did for the cases was easy, but trying to understand them was difficult. I don't know, if I had it to do over again I think I’d probably do the same damn fool thing. Thank you. Oh, by the way, I have had a couple things that have kept me busy, one of them for the last nineteen years. I took care of the blind for the Lions Club, yeah, for the club— Susan: —Lions Club— Dr. Benson: —Lions Club, or rather I took care of Mrs. DeWitt, because I started back in the beginning when she lived downstairs under me in my home. Then we had a disagreement, not Mrs. DeWitt, but I and the Lion's Club, so I disappeared, and after that, out of a clear sky, after having spent some time in the Masons and gotten up into the Shrine back around in 1928, I was suddenly got told that I was no longer Medical Director, but I was in charge of the Charities, and what a surprise that was for me—that meant that I had to hunt up the kids that might be damaged by burns, and believe it or not, one of the hospitals that I represent is the only hospital in the world that ever brought back a child 91% burned. The rest of them think they're damn lucky if they can bring back 50% or 35%. I've made many trips to Boston and to some of the other hospitals and I've had them all do work for me on the burn kids, and then before that we had nineteen orthopedic hospitals. That didn't seem enough to me, anyway, no matter what I found that was wrong, I usually was able to decide it was orthopedic, and you'd be surprised how much my training taught me to make the other fellow think twice. I haven't made as many trips this year, but a little while ago I kept track of them. I think I've gotten stuck in the snow down around Boston at least six times. I think I've been down through over the Hudson when it was frozen solid four or five times, and I get to the clinic once a year, and most people can't understand why my hobby is helping to spend forty-nine million dollars a year and I don't think it keeps me busy. I'm willing to have some help, but the thing that interests me is that very few people understand that this isn't just, ah, patch-me-up stuff. This is a thing of building people, kids, and trying to make them live happy and enjoy things. Sure, it takes longer than it does if you're going to just give them a kick up and let them startle them, but I think it's the greatest charity in the world. What do you think about it? Susan: Well, I think it's remarkable what you've done, and I think you oughta mention that you have several awards for your work and that you were Man of the Year in 1973—was it? Dr. Benson: All right, if it will make you any happier. Susan: Well, you deserve some credit. Dr. Benson:They're urging me to talk about awards. I don't know whether I told you, I have 21-22 letters dearranged after my name. It isn't enough to make an alphabet, but some of the letters I've got so many of I don't know what to do with. The other thing they kid me about is brass plaques. Yes, I've got a bunch of them. When you're young they're important, when you’re old you wonder if you're worth it. I've, yes, this last year I received the award from the American Legion—Man of the Year—then found out that on ‘73 I had the Shriner of the Year from Kalurah, then I got a whole lot more of them, but the thing I think you ought to get is to come along and see the fun and find out how much fun work is when you do it right. Susan: Well, thank you very much, Dr. Benson. It's been very enjoyable talking with you. Dr. Benson: Well, now, there is a lot more if you want it, so if you get stuck just call me. Susan: Fine. Dr. Benson: And we’ll try and see if they’re—because, I don't know, ah, for instance, somebody might get somewheres, like taking a film like this—why I enjoyed being a doctor— Susan:That's right. Dr. Benson: Why I don't want to be a lawyer, do you see what I mean? Susan: Right. Dr. Benson: And I think you might get further ahead with such ideas. Put down a list and then half a dozen of us go through what we can add or take off of it on each one, and then go ahead and get it dictated by someone that you can pick out as being the person that will do the best job, because that's what you gotta do. Susan: Well, certainly if I know someone in trouble, you’re the man to call, Dr. Benson. Thank you again. Dr. Benson: You’re entirely welcome. Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I have been talking with Dr. Carl S. Benson, who lives at 109 Murray Street, Binghamton, NY. The date is June 8, 1978. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. Carl S. Benson Subject The topic of the resource Benson, Carl S. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Colgate University; World War, 1939-1945; American Legion; Binghamton General Hospital; Lourdes Hospital; Hancock Hospital; Shriners; Lions Club International Description An account of the resource Dr. Carl S. Benson talks about his upbringing and education in and outside of his hometown of Binghamton, NY. He attended Binghamton Central High School, Colgate University, and studied medicine in Buffalo, NY before working at the Erie Penitentiary during WWII then moving back to Binghamton to work as a cardiologist at Binghamton General, Lourdes, and Hancock Hospital. He also discusses his charitable work. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recordings 3A, 3B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Benson, Carl E. ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-08 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:00 minutes ; 23:38 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/97c02042ed74f06130a242024fe5d37e.mp3 d3bcb433718454073e81d409357d62e7 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/faf1d380697d97db773ca15507e3ff25.mp3 0e5b4abcee1e8e7e7aa2e49fd4426c8d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sargent, Clealand A. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56011">Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent</a> Subject LCSH Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Clealand A. Sargent Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 26 April 1978 Dan: Doctor would you give me ah your life and experiences, working experiences in the community, starting back to when you were born and where you were born? Dr. Sargent: Well I was born in Richford, Vermont. R-I-C-H-F-O-R-D, Vermont—it's right on the Canadian border. My father was took before the Customs, that's how we happened to be there. I graduated from Richford High School in 1912, June 1912 and entered the University of Vermont that fall in 1912 and I graduated in Medicine there in June, yeah in June 1918. Served my internship at the Mary Fletcher Hospital in Burlington, and ah that was during the War, I came—then I started in private practice at Orwell, Vermont. Orwell, Vermont, which is on Lake Champlain. They asked the college to send a physician there because they had lost two, so I went there and had 5 towns to cover in the practice, practice of medicine and ah I certainly enjoyed it and expected to stay there but in December in 1923, I had pneumonia and it was a very bad case with many complications and eventually from December 11 to April, I didn't do anything and then discovered I had pulmonary tuberculosis so I didn't—I had to quit private practice entirely. I received a fellowship with the Rockefeller Foundation. Now briefly, the Rockefeller Foundation was started in 1919. John D. Rockefeller gave 200 million dollars for public health service from the advice of his minister. He read the Bible and said the next time he came to Heaven—what did I do, so he told him just start out—do good with your money and that's your home. So he established the Rockefeller Foundation with 200 million dollars ah and also with that they named, they established a training station for physicians to go into preventive medicine. They built a medical school in Peking, China—they built the finest Medical College in University of Chicago and ah this fellowship I started on my birthday, January 13, 1925. I started as a fellow of the Rockefeller Foundation in Andalusia, Alabama ah my first I was there under training by men who had, doctors who had worked various stations throughout the world from the very beginning—in fact, in fact they had the United States. My first experience was with the control of malaria. For a boy born in Vermont, we didn't see very much malaria. I, we were thoroughly trained by men who very well experienced it. Ah as an illustration we started out in the morning - we were given a dose of Atabrine then we were given a thing to put on our wrist like a wristwatch but it had no bottom to it. You were supposed to catch mosquitoes—crawl under houses and what not, get mosquitos and put them under here (pointing to wristwatch) have ‘em eat. Dan: Incubate? Dr. Sargent: Feed on your, feed on your skin to keep them alive until you get back to the laboratory because they had to determine what type of infection they had and ah after malaria experience, I was taught to control the hookworms disease and hookworm disease starts by a worm that burrows through the soles of the feet goes up into the bloodstream coughed up and swallowed and attaches itself to the intestinal tract—causes slow hemorrhage. We have taken, while I was there, we as a team—a nurse, a doctor, a nurse and a clerk and go in this school and we got feet for examination and ah if found hookworms, got permission to advance and treat these children and we have taken away as many as 2000 hookworms from one individual. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Sargent: And it is a very serious affair. Well from that, the State passed, they assigned somebody to help establish school health programs in the northern part of the State of Alabama. I was sent up there with a very well trained public health nurse—Rockefeller Foundation and then there was an outbreak of diphtheria at Muscle Shoals and I was sent up to work at Florence, Tuscumbia, Columbia, Sheffield, Ford City in control of diphtheria and while I was there we let the water through the flues to start with—the electric power for the State of Alabama—it was very interesting work there. Well ah we did some roundworm control later and then I was assigned to the City of Montgomery, Alabama diphtheria control and while I was doing that, there was an outbreak of smallpox at Columbus, Ohio and I was sent to Oberlin to establish a control program for the outbreak of this smallpox and we were there about 6 weeks because after we vaccinated several thousand people ah against smallpox and things bought under control, they asked me to stay and help the Health Officer with diphtheria control program. Well being nice about it—children against diphtheria and then they asked me to go to the State of—well they gave me a choice of either going to to Panama or to West Virginia—black lung disease area or Springfield, Ohio or to the State of Delaware and in checking the various areas I chose Delaware because they had several serious and interesting health problems—one of the most interesting was infant mortality. Nearly, at that time, nearly a fourth of all the babies died before they got to be a year old and when we—course the first thing to do when we got there was to study the situation and find out why this occurred and we found that outside of Wilmington, 90% of the babies were delivered by illiterate midwives. Most of them could not read or write. They were either colored or from the southern borough, whatnot. Well after we made our study and got the information we needed, we went to the State Legislature and asked for authority to establish a code and ah they gave us that authority and we examined and tested all the midwives and as a result, we eliminated about 50% of it. They couldn’t read nor write and every midwife was under the direction of one of our public health nurse—she had to report to us when she was engaged on a case. The public health nurse followed the case until the delivery and we brought the infant mortality down to 20-25 per thousand we brought it down to 20 but while we were doing this, the State Health Commissioner asked me if I would do something about diphtheria control because they had it typed over 400 for 1000 population—so we set up clinics—I have a picture of one of them right there where I was working (points to photo) Wilmington, Delaware and we immunized 80,000 against diphtheria—practically eliminated it. Then they had a bad typhoid situation and we started in on a sanitation program—building pit privies and whatnot—sanitarians to control typhoid. Well it was all very interesting ah but I had an opportunity then to go to Johns Hopkins with the Rockefeller Foundation and take some courses in public health that was the school of hygiene and I have two Diplomas from Hopkins besides one I have from the University of Vermont. Well then I, after leaving, got a ride into New York State and I didn't know it at the time but Commissioner Moses of the Parks—State Park Commission was working with Canada to establish the seaway, St. Lawrence Seaway and I had charge of syphilis control along Erie, Lake Erie from Canada to Pennsylvania. Had headquarters in Buffalo and ah it was the most interesting experience. We eventually had about 70,000 blood tests which were recorded by Russel Soundex. We worked at all the hospitals—blood donations and things like that. I worked at Erie County penitentiary which was as large as most State prisons—worked with the Doctor there with control among the prisoners. Then and I also worked at Attica prison every Wednesday—Erie county every Tuesday—only had a day but Wednesday. Attica was most interesting because ah at that time the United States Public Health service had a representative in 150 different foreign cities and if we found a ah sailor or another person there from jail who had syphilis and could name the prostitute or contact in any city of the world, we would notify the State Health Department who would notify the Public Health Service who would notify his representative and we found active cases a far away as Hong Kong. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Sargent: Then ah—I can't remember what happened then, I ah, Oh there's a series of disease known as titseal. They're caused by a bug that burrows in the skin and ah causes a disease like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Well there’s a disease known as "tutsi magutsi" which is a titular disease imported from Japan and it appeared on Long Island and ah I was taken out of, well we've been about 5 years in the census control program and we had clinics well established so on and so forth. I thought my assistant could carry on so they put me down on Long Island and we hired hunters to kill rabbits so we could get the ticks out of the ears of the rabbits and we hired donkeys to roam the countryside, then we catch the donkeys at night and get the, get somebody to get the ticks out of the donkey's ears to bring to our laboratory. Dan: That was the source of the disease? Dr. Sargent: To determine what kind of ticks we had. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: There's different kind of diseases caused by various ticks. Well, while I was there ah the man who, the Doctor who had charge of the State Regional office in New York City retired and they asked me to take it over—the State—that’s how I came to being employed by the State of New York and I had supervision over all of Westchester County and all of Long Island and also a $400,000. The State paid New York City for its child health clinics—we had to check that to see if it was spent properly. Well then I got, I got some requests for training assignments and the State gave me permission to take and it was extreme interesting because I think I learned more than I gave my students. I, because on Wednesday nights I went to University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, gave a 2 hour lecture every Wednesday night and many of the students were from foreign countries and they had a lot of experience—I had run into that at Hopkins so that I was made aware of some of the problems of foreign countries. Well then on Thursday mornings I gave a 2 hour lecture at New York University Medical School out there. Thursday evenings I gave a 2 hour lecture at the school of Administration and that was interesting at Washington Square. Then Friday morning I gave a 2 hour lecture for University of Columbia and I had my area covered—everything from Montauk Point top of Westchester County and it was farther from Montauk to my office than on up to Albany, so I had all city driving—I lived in Ossining and commuted 6 days a week in the worst traffic in the world. 9 o'clock in the morning to 5 o'clock at night.  Dan: Gee. Dr. Sargent: And ah I thoroughly enjoyed it but then I got tripped up—I got a coronary. an: Uh huh—what year was this Doctor? Dr. Sargent: That was in 1921 and ah I didn't work from August until April at all ‘cause I had other complications along with other complications and when I had pneumonia, I got collapse of the lower lobe of my right lung and this is tuberculosis—so everything stacked up against me. So the State assigned me, after I could get back to work, they assigned me to the City of Syracuse. First as District Officer which included 5 of the counties upstate. Simply—supervision over the work of the local health officer. Well then the Mayor of the City of Syracuse asked me to take over the job as Commissioner of Health of Syracuse—I didn't want any part of it and said I wouldn't take it. Dan: A little too strenuous? Dr. Sargent: Pardon? Dan: A little too strenuous? Dr. Sargent: No—too much politics. Dan: Too much politics. (laughter). Dr. Sargent: And ah I said I’d have no part of it at all. When I left his office—came out on television that (I have a hiatal when I talk too much—it chokes me) ah it came out on television that I was going to be the next Health Commissioner and ah I said I didn't want it—so I called the Mayor said, "I'll do it as long as I'm in it because my son is in college; when he gets through, he and I are going to run our apple orchard up in Vermont and I'll do it until he gets straightened around," because I thought I’d last just about that long. He's got some real problems and I wasn't going to stand for it. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: Now somebody watching it—straighten out some of their problems. Well I took the thing over and found out that first of all—well I wrote to the census bureau and Syracuse has 32 census tracts and in my work you have to know conditions before you can have any programs or do anything. Well I had heard rumors—I knew roughly what the situation was but I wanted facts. So I wrote the Census Bureau and I got the last 5 census figures for the 32 census tracts and asked to name the population as of that date. Then we figured the various for date mortality rates by census tracts and we centered all of our working 10 census tract 5 all downtown—all bunched by downtown and ah first thing which we did was start a housing program which had not been done in this State except in the middle of New York City. I went to Washington and discussed it with them and they assigned a man by the name of Traboney, who had a lot of experience in that field and he came to Syracuse and established a school in the health department to teach sanitary units how to do good building inspections—home inspections and of course we trained our own inspectors—we had several men from other cities come there so we did quite a bit in housing and then they—we got some trouble with food outbreaks, which we didn't like at all and we traced it largely to a salmonella infection from poultry. Then we went at the poultry business ah after the poultry business and ah as a result we were the only place in the State which barred New York dressed poultry and New York dressed poultry in those days all they did was kill the bird and pick the feathers off. Sold it to you with the intestines and everything in. Well that was where we were getting in trouble, so we stopped the sales of New York dressed poultry and then salmonella stopped ah but ah we then, they had a tuberculosis case funding program in which each year they x-rayed all employees of various factories over and over again year after year and it cost about $4500 to find a case of tuberculosis that way—so we went into the tuberculosis problem and we studied very carefully by census tracts, by age groups, by occupation and we found that the bulk of our cases were in the middle age group among food handlers and bartenders—so we stopped examining the factories—we required all food handlers to have chest x-rayed at our expense every year and we, our case load then was quite heavy to find new cases cost us less than $500 against $4500 other way. We also x-rayed all the people once a month at the Onondaga Penitentiary because they had drifters from everywhere. When we found a case that didn't belong to us we notified their Health Officer and we worked our local jail, x-rayed people down there for the same reason. We picked up people we had and gotten away from us and weren't under treatment—so we had intensive tuberculosis control program and housing program. Then we went into air pollution control and again working with Washington, set up an air pollution control program—I think we were the first in the State outside of New York City that was doing that and ah I tried to get rid of meat inspection because they weren't inspecting meat for anything—that we'd be infected by—I couldn't, there's too much influence through the meat people I couldn't—there's some big ones up there.  Dan: This is all in Syracuse now? Dr. Sargent: Yeah and ah there's an interesting thing—I don't want to take your time though. Dan: No, you're not taking my—I've got all the time in the world so you go right ahead Doctor. Dr. Sargent: Well let me illustrate what I meant by wanting to get rid of meat inspection. We had eight slaughterhouses when I worked there and I went to the mayor—was Costello and ah said, "I don't want anything to do with meat inspection—that's Ag and Markets business." I said, "Don't look for anything that infects human beings anyway"—it was just a lot of headaches. The meat men had too much influence and too much money, I couldn't do it. But anyway, I found that every inspector in every plant was working for the guy he was supposed to be inspecting. Dan: Is that right? In cahoots with the slaughterhouse.  Dr. Sargent: So, I, I started raising hell about them, said, "Well if you don't pay me enough money so I can live"—I’ll cite one instance—a burly fellow came to me one day—he need, now we needed another inspector because one of them quit so he asked for the job and I gave it to him and he had a little experience and one of the sanitarians came one day and he says, "You know what your inspector is doing up at such and such slaughterhouse he's a buyer." Well he had only seen me once—he didn't know me very well so I thought I'd go up and see if it was true. I went up—instead of being on the kill floor watching the slaughtering like he was supposed to, he had a straw hat on and a long white coat and was in this little cubby hole—so I recognized him, he didn't recognize me. I went over to him and said, "If I had a load of pigs to sell, who would I see?" He says, "See me, I'm the buyer." Well I said, "I'm your boss—now you don't have a job." Well he hemmed quite a ruckus anyway. Finally I got that straightened. I got, fortunately, there was a Doctor Jackson who had worked for public health for the Ag. and Markets in Washington for years as Veterinarian and ah he was retired. He lived in Syracuse—people lived there—so I asked him if he'd come back to work for us. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: And ah first he said "No,” said, "I worked in Syracuse." Well he did eventually come back to work for us. But anyway we had a rendering plant in Syracuse that made an awful lot of smoke and bad odors and so forth and so the inspectors said, "We can't do a thing with them." So I always followed up inspection work and I went down to this particular rendering plane and I told them we had a lot of complaints and ah asked if they wouldn't stop it—they would do something to stop it but he didn't so I went back again about a couple months, I said, "Now if you don't stop it we’re going to have to close the plant," and he kind of smiled, said, "I'd like to see that."  "Well,” I said, "I don't think you would."  "Well what I mean,” he said, "I'd like to see you try it." Said, “Do you know who owns this plant?" I said, "I don't give a—"  “Well,” he said, Swift and Co owns it."  I said, "Well I've already arrested Swift and Company's men 2 or 3 times a year for bumping meat.” Now do you know what bumping means? They get federally inspected meat—they have a stamp on it - beet juice stamped. Circulars going up to Newark to an uninspected slaughterhouse and buying quarters of beef—bringing them down—bumping them against the one that was federally inspected—now you couldn't tell which one, both marks were smeared. Dan: You mean, you mean transferred from one carcass to the other? Dr. Sargent: Yeah and hang two together like this—just put the good one with the bad one and bump them together and this would come off on the bad one and you couldn't tell which was which so we arrested them for that and then another time they sold 1800 pounds of pork shoulders and shaved off the Federal mark and my inspector called on a Sunday morning, he says, “What'll I do?” I said, "Tell the storekeeper he has a choice of one of two things—one, he can pour kerosene on them in his store or out in the yard.” So he said he thinks he wants it done out in the yard so he had to do that but ah I'm glad. Dan: Pretty rough. Dr. Sargent: And the milk inspection was even worse, so when they had change of change of administration ah they didn't want me around anymore. Dan: How many years was now that you spent up there—you went there in 1941? Dr. Sargent: Well I was up there from ‘41 to ‘54. Dan: ‘54. Dr. Sargent: But part of the time I was with the State and part of the time as Health Officer. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: Well I wanted to go to the farm and work with the boy but I—my orchard wasn't developed to the point where I—I wanted to be the guy to solve the problems—let the boy run the farm but they hadn't reached that point—later it did, we were shipping 20,000 boxes of apples but then it didn't so I was mulling things over and ah Dr. Dickson, he's dead now, used to be here. Remember him?  Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: He was acting Health Officer—Dr. Tudor had left and we were at a meeting in Syracuse and Dickson said ah, "Well if you aren't going to stay in Syracuse, why don't you come down to Binghamton—we need somebody badly." Well I looked things over and came down. I think I better do something, I can't go to the farm, I’m too young to sit around and do nothing, so I came down and saw Kramer and he ah offered me the job and I took it. Dan: He was Mayor at that time? Dr. Sargent: Umhm. John Burns was his assistant. Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: Well we had some of the same problems as we had up there ah but ah it wasn't as bad. The thing that we did have down here—I came here in ‘54 and ‘56 had a bad outbreak of polio and I had quite a lot of experience in polio because the City Hospital in Syracuse and had a lot of cases up there—so we started a vaccination program here—we got excellent cooperation from everybody. We had two former school teachers who came in and offered their services as clerks at teen clinics—my wife went down to help them file away the records and all of our nurses, not exception, volunteered to work on our clinic teams. Every Monday and every Thursday night we had a polio clinic—vaccination clinics. We didn't use the—I never liked the, in fact I used Salk vaccine which you had to inject instead of a drop on sugar for this reason—Salk vaccine was a killed virus and would do no damage. Sabin vaccine was a live virus and had started as epidemics. In institutions, they would give it to kids and in the sewer system the live virus would come through and they'd get trouble. The Sabin never has done that so I stuck to polio Sabin vaccine. Dan: You stuck to Sabin? Dr. Sargent: Oh, No, no. Dan: To Salk. Dr. Sargent: Salk—I wouldn't touch the Sabin with a ten foot pole. Dan: Now which one is it you have on a lump of sugar? Dr. Sargent: Sabin. Dan: Sabin. Dr. Sargent: Salk is the one. Salk came out originally—it is a killed bacteria. Dan: Yeah—were you Health Officer at the time that they had that testing program? I think you were? Dr. Sargent: Sure. Dan: Where all of the ah ah participants—the children were vaccinated and they were vaccinated they didn't know whether they were getting the real vaccine or a placebo. Dr. Sargent: No I don't think I was here that time. Dan: You were never here then? Dr. Sargent: I probably. Dan: ‘Cause I know that my oldest daughter participated in that program—now she's 31 now and— Dr. Sargent: I think it must have come after we left because we vaccinated—oh gosh I forget how many but we used to do 15 to 1700 a night and nobody was barred. A third of our cases came from Pennsylvania and we had some we had one family came from Wales—we had some families from California and we never barred anybody because clinical disease doesn't know any boundaries for one thing. Dan: Right. Dr. Sargent: Another thing was I was under State aid—in other words the State paid half of my salary and half of all my nurses' salaries. All the city had to pay was one half of what it cost and all vaccine was paid for by the Red Cross so I didn't hesitate taking anybody. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: So we did that and ah we had oh so many requests from school people and ah people under unemployment for the vaccination records that people asked us—we had very complete records. In fact it stopped it—we haven't had a case since. So that was interesting and then—remember the salt? Dan: General Hospital, yes. Dr. Sargent: I don't like to— Dan: It's all right it's confidential. Dr. Sargent: I'll say this—I had a director of nurses and her assistant I had an agreement with them—one of them stayed there all day long watch that nurse—all day—the other would stay all night and watch her. Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: What we saw and learned—I asked the State Health Officer—I had no authority to do anything better—I asked the State Health authority we wished to be privileged—they wouldn't take away that person. Dan: They wouldn't? That made—that was nationwide publicity it got—Life magazine and everything. Yeah, that was a terrible thing. Dr. Sargent: Yeah, of course what happened—they disobeyed all regulations and the colored maid went down to the kitchen—instead of getting the sugar in the sugar barrel, she got into the salt barrel. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: They got the salt—it wouldn't have happened if they had helped me out but they wouldn't. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: Everywhere you turn you have to deal with (tarb) Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: And sometimes if you get the cooperation of the community, you can get along very nicely. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: Ah Tom Corcoran, in Syracuse, was one of the nicest men I ever knew and he never turned me down on anything I wanted to do and when I wanted to stop the sale of New York dressed poultry ah I told him among other things I said, "These poultry people are putting water into the breasts of turkeys and freezing it so they'd weigh more but they aren't too careful and are infecting the turkeys and people who cook them take care of them—now I want to stop salmonella infection I've got to stop that too. Well he hardly believed me he told me afterwards he was taking his daughter up to Rochester to a party. Her boyfriend was with them—he was telling him this as a joke cause that's no joke, "That's my job, why I inject turkeys with it.” So Tom helped me in every way to bring this end about. It was very interesting but we did air pollution control. First we started out we hired a young lad with a tractor to mow all of the vacant lots in town—we asked to mow them all down. We mowed so to get rid of the ragweed and then we had the ah physician in town to cooperate with us to do pollen counts—published everything in the papers and ah I think our best bet was the centering our problems right in the central part of the city the 10 census tracts and our nurses concentrated their efforts there. When I went there, a nurse visited every home where there was a newborn baby, regardless of whether they got a million dollars or no money—so we stopped that. We had them visit people in 10 census tracts then we sent postcards to other people saying if you want the nurse, all you have to do is let us know. But it let the nurses concentrate their work in the 10 census tracts where our problems were and ah it had its effect very definitely and very interesting. Dan: How about the mortality rate as far as the infants were concerned—did that go down? Dr. Sargent: Yes it went down and then wasn't awfully high but it was higher we wanted. It’s always too high. Dan: Yeah, that’s true. Dr. Sargent: But the thing that concerned us the most in Syracuse ah was the sloppy way the inspectors were operating and the tuberculosis control program wasn't wanted at all and this salmonella infection thing in poultry gave us a lot of things to—in other words, in my field of work, there are plenty of problems to look for but sometimes it's difficult to get the authority to handle it. Dan: What year did you retire Doctor? Dr. Sargent: ‘63. Dan: ‘63 so outside of the ah few years you were in private practice, all your life has been devoted to public health service. Dr. Sargent: That’s right. Dan: And in your private practice days, I suppose you made house calls. Dr. Sargent: Uh absolutely—I was the local health officer. Dan: (Laughter) So what would you say would be the difference in the practice of medicine today as compared to when you first started out? Dr. Sargent: Please—don't. Dan: Please don't get you started, huh? (laughter) It's the age of specialization. Dr. Sargent: Well I could show you some—I've kept information every few days at Johns Hopkins and University of Vermont and so forth—publications and the older men I think are pleading, pleading so as to teach medicine. Pleading with them. This one fellow graduated at same time I did at Johns Hopkins—he had a letter in recent publications says, ''Why can't you go back to teaching medicine?" Dan: Yeah—wasn't it true though in your day too that you had your own pharmacy—no such thing as drugstores? Dr. Sargent: Well there was drug stores. Dan: There weren't too many of them though. Dr. Sargent: We dispensed a lot of medicine. Dan: Dispensed a lot of it yourself. Dr. Sargent: And we didn't have—I have a nephew who is the Vice President of (inaudible) Drug Company. They started, they were American boys and they went to London because they were the first ones to put powders in paper and wrap them up but these boys put them in custom made pills and they went to London to do that and were very successful so they came over here and started a branch station New York Burroughs Co. Well he went to work for them when he was a young pharmacist just out of Temple—he's now Vice President. His job is to fly to Switzerland where all this monkey business comes from through drugs—I don't have the faintest what it is today, I'm taking drugs I haven't the faintest idea what the devil they are—I don't think the Doctor knows either. But ah when there's something new they think is startling comes out. He thinks company policy goes over to Switzerland and talk and see if he thinks it's any good but I guess he's a pretty good pharmacist because he goes over and he twists an arm to find out really ‘cause my job depends on what I tell my people. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: So if he thinks it's good then he goes to London, where the headquarters really are for his offer and he gets their approval to go on with it. Then he flies to Washington to get approval down there to OK to make it—then he has to fly to his home office here and tell everything is OK to go ahead and make the pills. But ah he tells me—I asked him one day I said, "Why can't you do something so the Doctors know what they're giving their medicine—more about it," said, ''Why we spend a million dollars a year putting into every package of tablets we send out just exactly how we spend our money and how it comes out." Dan: You know I think the public today are getting so confused that every day it comes out in the paper that no matter what you're eating, soft drinks or anything else, it's causing cancer. Now I've got sugar myself and I 'm not supposed to eat sugar but I'm substituting saccharin—now they come out and say saccharin is going to cause cancer so what am I supposed to do—crawl in and cover up? (laughter). Dr. Sargent: Well this cancer thing is ah humm. Dan: Now what medical school did you go to Doctor? Dr. Sargent: University of Vermont. Dan: University of Vermont Medical School and the University of Vermont. Dr. Sargent: For pre-medical work. Dan: Uhhuh and how old are you now Doctor? Dr. Sargent: I was born in 1893 Dan: 1893. Dr. Sargent: 85 years old last January. Dan: And how many children do you have? Dr. Sargent: Two. Dan: Two—boy and a girl and the boy is up in Vermont. Dr. Sargent: No the boy is in Watertown—he and his wife have quite a busy ceramics business. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: And the girl lives in Fairport and teaches in East High School in Rochester. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: She's married and has three daughters and ah she has—I've asked her to quit many times. She has a class, I think they're idiots—they're assigned to her by the Courts—they can't get along in school or anything else and they kick them out of school so the court makes them go to our daughter's school. Well she's been hit in the face by them, she’s had her foot broken by stomping on her feet. Dan: My God. Dr. Sargent: But she—I think she enjoys it because she gets hold of these—most, a lot of them are colored and she says she had one big bruiser the other day, I think 18 or 19 years old and ah he threatened to haul off and paste her—if he did he might have killed her but ah she likes it because she thinks that's worthwhile. All of them can't read a thing as high as 18, 19 years old—that's about the limit. So whatever she does is clear gain and she has to visit their homes and ah she thoroughly enjoys her work—she's going to retire in June. Dan: That is good—so you never got the farm up in Vermont with the apple orchard? Dr. Sargent: No, no so sold it—no we sold it ah my wife, my son's wife came from Syracuse and she got kind of homesick up there in the country—she lived there 16 years. She wanted to go back to Syracuse so they left for Syracuse and I sold the farm but ah it got to be a very productive farm—sold 20,000 boxes of apples a year. Dan: Gee. Dr. Sargent: And they—the man we sold it to told me 1st summer, told me, "I was offered twice what I paid for it." Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: And ah it's 150 acres and said for 70 acres he was offered $100,000 no buildings, but it is a very good productive orchard. But the kids, my wife didn't want to stay there and I'm too old to handle it. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: Sold it. Dan: Have you received any awards in your work through the years Doctor? Dr. Sargent: Yes, I've got one from Syracuse, honorary, ah fraternity from Syracuse School of Medicine, Maxwell School in Citizenship and I'm an honorary come out and I’ll show you (goes out on side porch and shows Dan diplomas) Dan: Is there anything else you'd like to tell me? Dr. Sargent: If you shut that off, I'll tell you. (meaning tape recorder) Dan: Ah well for the record I'll shut it off, sure but I mean is there anything else that you can think of as far as your career is concerned before I shut it off? Dr. Sargent: Yes I had some wonderful opportunities. In the State of Oregon, when I was doing syphilis control work in Rockwell County. State Health Commission asked me to go to New York City at the annual meeting for the entire country and sell our program, with our nurses and all—so what we were doing. Twenty-three States asked for our records and so forth and the State of Oregon asked me to come there. They said they'd give me a month’s salary—they'd pay all my expenses and so forth if I'd come up and set up a program there. They wouldn't let me go because I was—had nobody to replace me and ah they called Remington Rand—the stinkers patented my records and one day six or eight months afterwards, a young lad came into my office—spread out some records looked very familiar to me and he says, "Of course you can use these all you want to," says, "I am using it," says, "You can't let anybody else use it—they're ours—they're patented." They patented my own records. Dan: (Laughter) My God. Well would you like me to play this back for you Doctor? Dr. Sargent: No. Dan: No. Dr. Sargent: No. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination Description An account of the resource Dr. Clealand A. Sargent speaks about his upbringing in Richford, Vermont, premedical and medical education at the University of Vermont, and his private practice in Orwell, Vermont and why he had to give it up. He discusses entering the public health field, relating his experiences with different diseases and control programs in states in which he was a health officer. He also describes taking advanced courses at Johns Hopkins Medical School and teaching classes at various New York universities, and notes the differences in medical practices from the start of his career to the current day. He discusses his position and experiences as the Health Commissioner in Syracuse, NY. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 52A ; Recording 52B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sargent, Clealand A. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/224373b701eafe101745b3af2ab1f633.mp3 877e5b79914363ff4cea8024ec22a1eb https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/881c7eeeaaa83d369c667aa26d8e89f6.mp3 b7ff858c65c2996ce4df1b4c80e76612 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Smith, Jean Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-05-02 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:40 Minutes ; 18:44 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56022">Interview with Dr. Jean Smith</a> Subject LCSH Smith, Jean -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Women physicians -- Interviews; Syracuse University; World War, 1939-1945; Vaccination; Chenango Valley Central Schools; Chenango Valley Medical Group; State University of New York at Binghamton Clinical Campus; Polio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Jean Smith Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 2 May 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Dr. Jean Smith of Highover Rd. in Chenango Bridge. The date is the second of May, 1978. Doctor Jean, you've recently retired as a family physician after twenty-some years in—a our community and we're interested in your life experiences in—a this Broome County area. A—would you begin by telling us where you were born? Dr. Jean: Well, I was born and raised in Syracuse, but both of my parents came from Broome County and they were born and raised in Windsor, New York, where my grandfather was a dentist. My mother and father both went to Syracuse to—to—a college and—a they later settled there. And I spent my summers in this area, so that I was always interested in coming back here. And when I finished my training I came to Chenango Bridge and started practicing in family practice with my brother, who was already here in family practice. Ah—I wanted to be a doctor as long as I could remember. I do remember when I was in—a high school, we had to write a paper on—a “My Vocation” and I wrote about nursing, but I looked into nursing schools and decided that I wouldn't be an ordinary nurse, I would be the very best, so I told my brother I was going to Yale and get a Master of Nursing and—a so he said, "Well how long will that take?" (Laughing) I said "Six years." And he said, ''Well in seven years you could go on to medical school, you—" and so that clinched it. I knew that's really what I preferred. But I went to school at Syracuse in—a during—it was during the war years. And there were four girls in the class and about forty-five fellows and they were all in the service, except one. And—a so they were on the gravy train. They had their tuition paid and their books and their microscopes and—a a nice fat check which they used for gambling! (chuckles) We told them that if they used that money they could pay our way through too, but they didn't like that idea too well. But we did have a good class and we had lots of fun and—a people ask me today if I had trouble—being a woman in medical school or in medicine. I guess I was just too naïve to know that if there was trouble I didn't find it. But I hear the women libbers today and realize that I wa—probably was discriminated against in many small ways, but I just ignored it and it was no problem at the time, but I am sympathetic with the girls who are trying to get real equality today and opportunities. Wanda: Well, when you came to—to this area, how many women physicians were in practice? Dr.Jean: There were five or six here at the time and I can think of six of us now who are retired and—a I'm not aware of more than two or three in the area that are practicing now. There's a real—I think there's a real need for women physicians in the area now. But surprisingly enough there were about five or six at that time. Wanda: Dr. Mary Ross was one of them, wasn't she? Dr. Jean: Yeah—Dr. Mary Ross was a—family physician for a lot of people in the area; Dr. Myrtle Wilcox who just recently retired; and—a Dr. Florence Warner who retired a few years ago, but she's still doing the Well Baby Clinics; and Dr.Connie Vitanza came just after I did in pedia—pediatrics—she retired last year; and there was an allergist, Dr. Vencko I think her name was. She's still around but I don't know if she's doing allergy or not. Her husband's a surgeon. Wanda: So when you—when you came here your brother who was known as Dr. Bob, and you are known as Dr. Jean— Dr. Jean: That's right. Wanda: —a—he was, he had already—a—been in practice for a couple of years, wasn't it? Dr. Jean: Yes. He graduated from med school about six years before I did, but he was in the service for a while. He'd started practicing in Chenango Bridge—was only here about a year, when Pearl Harbor occurred and he went in the Navy and then came back to Chenango Bridge after the war. So he'd only been back about a year—or maybe two—when I finished and joined him. But we both liked the area a lot. I think one of the reasons was—a it was a mixed practice of rural and suburban. We had the feeling that we (were) really needed in the country—the farmers and the country people—and—and yet we had the stimulation of suburban people. And—a—a—we both enjoyed our work with the school because we made friends and a good percentage of the administrators and the teachers were our patients and friends and that was very stimulating, and has been over the years. I've enjoyed that. Wanda: Now you speak almost casually about this rural practice, but (laughs) I seem to remember a lot of your calls were done in the back hills, so to speak. Dr. Jean: Well, we made a lot of house calls in those days and—a we got to know the families—a real well—traveled in a lot of snow and a lot of mud. I remember it was always a challenge and fun to drive up in the country in all kinds of weather but I did have to rely on friends every now and then in the middle of the night to help out. I used to call on Bruce Russell or Ron Brown or somebody to drive with me on some bad nights. I think they enjoyed it, too. Sometimes we had to call the ambulance and the ambulance drivers would complain and say what a terrible time they had getting up there, and they'd suddenly realize that we were there too, and had been there (laughs) for a while. But it was—it was an exciting time. It was just the beginning of antibiotics then, too. I remember going up into the country and giving some of the first shots of penicillin in the area. Nowadays they give about a million units of penicillin a day and we used to—a have little tablets of ten thousand-unit penicillin and we'd dissolve 'em and put ‘em in the syringe and (laughs) we used to get good results. We'd cure pneumonia with just a little bit of penicillin. It was terrib—pretty expensive at that time, too, so we didn't use much. It was hard to get. In fact it was so close to the beginning of antibiotic—era—1947 was when I came to Chenango Bridge—penicillin had not been out long. I think it was about 1940 or 1942 it was first used. And—a in the thirties was the first that they had sulfa even. Before that I remember neighbors that died of pneumonia and infections and a lot of the kids I knew had big mastoid operation scars because they didn't have any other real way to cure their infections. And—a in fact my brother's wife died when he was a medical student from—a infection that today would be considered just a—a—a nuisance, post-operatively, and a shot of penicillin or a few antibiotics would take care of the situation. And—a so when you think that all—all of this—a advance in medicine that has come in, not only in my lifetime but in the few years that I practiced—it's pretty amazing. And—a— Wanda: How about—a polio? Was that—at the time you started practice there was no—a nothing that could be done actually to prevent it, was there? Dr. Jean: No—every summer we used to dread—a summer coming on when the kids first started to have symptoms of headache and vomiting and th—it was always a big worry as to which ones were going to develop polio—and there were always a few every summer. Some summers there were more than a few and I think it was about 1954 that—a we had our first—a program for polio vaccine and the kids were called polio pioneers 'cause only half of them got the real McCoy and half of them got a placebo-type of shot, and they were just doing—a their first big public health studies in—to the value of polio vaccine and it was so successful that—a I think it was 1955 that we—a had another project where we were giving the real McCoy and—a to just as many youngsters as we could reach. I remember—a we had—a large clinics at the schools through Broome County. It seems to me with the shots it was all done through the schools then later when we had the oral vaccine, it was—had big polio Sundays where the entire population could come. But that first year it was just available for a certain age group, um, kids that were most susceptible and—a it was just done through the schools, it was not available for adults in that year. Wanda: Now at that time—a you were probably—had been appointed the school physician for Chenango Valley, hadn't you? Dr. Jean: Um-hmm, yeah I was Chenango Valley School Physician—most of those years. That was the same year that I got polio myself in—a, I think it was—a September or October. I—a was treating a little five months old baby at home and—a about—a few days later I came down with polio and I was laid up for a few months and went back part-time on—with—a crutches and braces, but kept at it—a my physiotherapy and got along real well and now I have practically nothing—to show for it. Wanda: Nothing to show for it ... (both chuckle) that's the way to do things... Is there anything else you'd like to say about—a the school—um health programs? Dr.Jean: Well one of the—a—a most satisfying parts of my work in the school was working with the school nurse—teachers who were—a all very well trained and very dedicated people and our school administrator—a Mr.Galloway, was very interested in school health and we had a—good program where we really tried to identify youngsters who needed special attention and special services and see that they got them. And the nurses were given the time and the help to work with the families and see that they followed through with any recommendations that we made. I really enjoyed that part of my work. Wanda: You've—a—probably the—the larger part of your practice has been with a—obstetrics and pediatrics, hasn't it? You've always enjoyed working with babies and I think that's what you're remembered for mostly around here—is your excellent care— Dr. Jean: Well, I've probably delivered well over a thousand babies or maybe fifteen hundred babies in that—a length of time, and—a took care of most of them and—a yes—I took care of the whole family and I enjoyed knowing the whole family and—a I—a I like to think that I—that I am a family physician, and I'm really proud that I've always belonged to the Academy of General Practice, which is now the Academy of Family Practice. And it was one of the first groups that required post-graduate—a—a courses to maintain your membership. Right from the beginning I've always taken a lot of—a courses. We've had to have a hundred and fifty hours, at least, every three years and that—a—I'd combine that with travel. I'd go to different medical centers throughout the country and get acquainted with them and keep up to date on things and—a in 1971 I took the two-day board examination to become a specialist in Family Practice. That's the most recent specialty in the United States as far as having—a a specialty board and special certification, and happily many of the younger physicians today are beginning to go into that specialty, since it's taken on—a little more respectability. And many other specialities in some states now are requiring—a approved post-graduate hours and—a followed our leadership in that. I've been active over the years, too in the American Women's Medical Association and on their scholarship committees. It's interesting going over the scholarship applications today. The budgets of the girls in medical school are—it costs ten or twelve thousand dollars a year now, to go to medical school. And I used to beg, borrow or steal—two hundred dollars four times a year to pay my tuition (laughs) and I lived at home, so that wasn't any problem. But—a it's amazing that—a these youngsters are not discouraged. They go right ahead and do the same thing—beg, borrow or steal, I guess. There are ma—many of them, their parents aren't supporting them anymore in graduate school and they're going in debt for 20 or 30,000 dollars in—a—with government loans and scholarships and they're just thinking nothing of it. Wanda: Would you—a advise young people to go into this—general practice rather than a specialization these days? Dr. Jean: Well I think it depends a lot on the—a the individual and where their interests lie. I would say it would be one of the most rewarding—a—a specialties certainly because—a you're dealing more in the—in the—breadth of problems—the family problems, the medical problems rather than the—than going deeply into one area, but it involves the, the emotional health and the social well-being of the family as well as their medical problems and it's—it's really fascinating and very, very rewarding to get to work with the family as a whole. And—a I—it's a whole new ball game in medicine today, however. There's so many new special areas—a that one needs to be familiar with and a lot of social changes that—a necessitate changes in the way one practices, and it—a— Wanda: So the Family Physician is—is a specialty in this age? Dr. Jean: Yes. It really is, yeah. A family physician has a lot of special knowledge about the family—about the individual problems of families and various ages and various kinds of problems that families have that a specialist—a wouldn't be expected to know. So a family physician has a lot to offer now—a that a specialist in—a, for instance surgery or neurology or something else—a—a would really be out of his bailiwick. Wanda: Do you want to tell us something about the development of the Chenango Bridge Medical Group? A—first there were you and your brother—Dr. Jean and Dr. Bob—and—a practicing in his home? Dr. Jean: Um-hmm. That's right. Then—a we had—a, Dr.Howard came and joined us, and there were three of us practicing from—a Bob's home. Then Bob went back to take his specialty training in surgery and—a Dr.Peterson, I think, was the next one to join us. Anyway, over the years we've gradually enlarged the group, but we've tried to keep it—a, basically a family or primary care—a group and just added specialists as we felt there was a need for them. Wanda: When you first—a went into the building on Chenango Bridge Road—when was that built? Dr. Jean: (laughs) Gee, I don't remember, I should have checked on some of the dates— Wanda: Well, it was shortly after the two of you had taken on another doctor in the group, wasn't it? Dr. Jean: Yeah. I think there were four of us when we built—a the original building and we've added on to that twice and—a now with the most recent addition there are facilities for twelve physicians. We've never had that many.  Wanda: Plus the X-ray and the medical lab. Dr. Jean: X-ray, lab, physiotherapy and—a with room for expansion—a. As I say, we could take probably—a two or three more physicians, as far as the space is concerned. But the offices—a—the business office takes up quite a little space now, too, with all the paperwork involved in the practice of medicine. We need a secretary for various special areas. We have one who does almost all Workmen's Compensation and on that does mostly—a Welfare and Medicare and Medicaid, and there's all kinds of billing machines and things that our professors never told us about when we were in medical school! Wanda: That's another specialization, isn't it? Dr. Jean: Yes. Yeah it is. We have a full time business manager and he's in charge of—I don't know how many employees—eight or ten, anyway. Wanda: Well this—a group has—a filled a great need in this community because—a when Dr. Bob first came here, of course there was no physician in this particular area of the Town of Chenango and—a with the post-war growth of housing around here and the consequent baby boom—a your services were greatly appreciated in this community, I remember. Dr. Jean: Well, we've enjoyed trying to provide that service and enlarging the Group as we needed to. I was thinking about the switchboard at the office. It has—a, of course, many extensions and—a we have to have—a a girl at our switchboard all the time and I remember when we first started. Remember the old town switchboard and Lilian Pierson was the operator? And we'd—I'd go on a house call up around Chenango Forks, a—ten o'clock at night and before I'd left there the phone would ring and the switchboard—I mean the—a telephone operator down in Chenango Bridge—where was it, over the old railroad station or post-office? Somewhere down there— Wanda: Yeah. Dr. Jean: —anyway, she—she'd follow me around the country and tell me the next—a, next—a house call to make, 'cause somebody'd call in and she'd know right where I was, I didn't have to tell her. And—a that was kinda fun to keep in touch that way. And of course we didn't have anybody at night—other than the doctor's wife usually, that answered the phone. Wanda: How about emergency services? When—when you started and—and compared with what they are today with our present set-up in the Town of Chenango?  Dr. Jean: Well, when there were two of us we alternated nights and weekends, all year round there was always one of us on—a—hopefully available. We tried to be available. And—a with the Group, we have rotated the various specialities. There's always been a surgeon and a medical person on call in addition to the general physician on call, but—a in recent years the—a ambulance service and the hospital emergency rooms have been very well staffed with medical people and paramedical people. And so I'm sure the service is very much better than it was at that time—a, but they have a lot of sophisticated equipment to work with, which—a of course we didn't have, we did the best we could.  Wanda: It was simple but it was good. Dr. Jean: Some of the new sophisticated equipment is—a raising some ethical questions that are going to be very difficult to deal with and—a I can see that we're going to need a lot of help from other fields—a beside medicine, in solving the ethical problems that are arising. A—for instance, I myself carry a card—a which states that I don't want to be kept alive by all of our fancy equipment if there’s no reasonable hope of recover—recovery physically or mentally. And—a this is not a legal document but—a—it—it lets my family and my physicians know how I feel about it and—a—a—I'm very much concerned about some of the so-called advances in medicine which are miraculous and really great where they're—where they should be applied, but the question is when and where should they be applied? Wanda: (Would that) be in any particular case, such as older patients who are—have lived their useful years and are ready to go? Dr. Jean: Right. We used to say pneumonia is the friend of the aged, and—a I can think of a number of elderly people who—a died fairly quickly, quickly and easily at home with pneumonia, after various other problems, but today we're almost forced to use antibiotics if someone has pneumonia because it's something we can cure. But—a I'm—it's very difficult to make decisions as to a—when to—a limit your treatment in an older person or a terminal person. These are some of the things that the younger physicians—a are having to face and—a are—a… These kinds of things are beginning to be incorporated in the medical curriculum to realize that—a physicians aren't gods and—a we don't have the answers and we need help in making decisions. One—a thing that I am quite pleased about recently—it seems to me that people in general are beginning to take more responsibility for their own health care, both preventative medicine and in deciding what they—how far they want to go in treating their illnesses, and I think that's as it should be. Physicians should present—a the available resources and—a the family and the patient and the doctor together should decide what they want to do with the things that are available. Wanda: How about this—a modern craze, it seems, on—a health foods and natural—a nutrition. What do you think about that? Do you have any thoughts about it? Dr. Jean: Yes. It's a—there are two sides of it that—a, it seems to me, that the young people today—a who are interested in taking care of their bodies and eating properly and exercising and—a taking some responsibility for themselves—a that, that's very good, but I'm really alarmed at some of the information that they are getting from faddists and—a—a all the books that are being written for profit, and—a where it's very difficult for—a people to make up their minds as to what is legitimate and what is 'quacky.' And—a I think we have to rely a lot on the—a whole scientific community and their—a the dietetic associations and people that have really studied nutrition over the years, instead of just picking up the first book on the newsstand and thinking it sounds like it's gonna be the answer to everybody's prayers. Wanda: Can you remember any instances—a during your practice when you—a had problems with people who were trying to cure themselves? Dr. Jean: No, not too much, I think they probably didn't—a—a—confide in me what they were doing if they—if they did. I remember running into a few·mushroom poisonings, where people would go out and get a beautiful batch of mushrooms and get a couple—a bad ones. That always—a was rather alarming, but I've noticed today there's a lot of courses in mushroom identification, so maybe people know more about it than they did. Wanda: Well now that—a you are retired, what are your…what are your activities going to be in the next—a few years? Dr. Jean: Well I retired—a not because I planned to, but for health reasons and—a I had many interests and hobbies in photography and traveling, and taken up some new ones—sculpture, and been going to some—a workshops in counseling and—a personal growth and so I've got a lot of interests. I had thought that I might do some volunteer work in medicine, but I have discovered that there are a lot of other areas in this world that I never even heard about before, that are well worth looking into and—a I'm really enjoying exploring new areas. Never had time for it before. So I—some of the  volunteer things in the medical field are—are having to wait at the moment; I don't know whether I'll get back into that or not. Wanda: You are involved with the—the new medical program at SUNY? Dr. Jean: I have been on—a the curriculum committee for the new clinical campus. The clinical campus at SUNY is a—a new development and they’ve appointed—a—faculty already. We have a Dean, Assistant Dean, and some educators that are planning a program. What it actually is, is half of the junior and senior medical school classes from Syracuse will be coming to the Binghamton area for their clinical training and—a they're not coming until, I believe 1980. There will be twenty students. We already have some Fifth Pathway students that are working in the hospitals here. These are students who have had—a their medical education overseas and are fulfilling some special clinical work here. And we're developing the faculty and—a hopefully we'll have some training in teaching for our local people. Um—these programs are being set up now, well ahead of the time the students are going to arrive. And it's been a real stimulation to the medical community here and I'm sure it'll continue to be now. Um—the emphasis, I think, is going to be on primary care, although all the specialties will be involved and—a I…it seems to me that it's getting off to a very good start. There's some good people involved in the program. Wanda: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to have put on this tape while we're at it? Dr. Jean: I think we've covered quite a little ground here already. Maybe another day we'll come up with some special topics. Wanda: Well if you have anything to add later on we can still—a do that, however I want to thank you for the time you've taken this morning and for your service to this community. Dr. Jean: It's been fun. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. Jean Smith Subject The topic of the resource Smith, Jean -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Women physicians -- Interviews; Syracuse University; World War, 1939-1945; Vaccination; Chenango Valley Central Schools; Chenango Valley Medical Group; State University of New York at Binghamton Clinical Campus; Polio Description An account of the resource Dr. Jean Smith speaks about her motivations for becoming a physician and why she settled in Chenango Bridge, NY.  She received her education at <a href="http://www.syr.edu/">Syracuse University</a> during World War II and went into practice with her brother, Dr. Robert Smith.  She discusses several aspect of her career, including house calls and early use of penicillin and antibiotics. She also discusses working with <a href="http://www.cvcsd.stier.org/">Chenango Valley Central Schools</a> as a school physician and in the field of family practice, the development of the Chenango Bridge Medical Group, and emerging ethical questions in regard to modern medicine. She describes her interest in current medical practice and natural food, some of her post-retirement interests, as well as the beginning of the clinical campus program at the State University of New York at Binghamton. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 55A ; Recording 55B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Smith, Jean ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-02 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:40 Minutes ; 18:44 Minutes