Interview with Lenore Ruth Greenberg

Interview with Lenore Ruth Greenberg

Greenberg, Lenore ; Gashurov, Irene

Harpur College – Seventies alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni on Harpur Law Council Board; Harpur College – Alumni in New York City; Harpur College – Alumni living in Connecticut; Harpur College – LGBTQ Alumni

After earning her degree at Binghamton, Lenore earned a master’s degree in library sciences from SUNY Albany. She worked in records management at numerous companies, including Iron Mountain LLC. She was also adjunct professor of records management at Nassau Community College in Garden City, NY. Partners since 1985, Ms. Greenberg and her wife Ms. Roberta Treacy were early champions of marriage equality. They met while working at Anchor Savings Bank in Brooklyn. 

2018-10-18

In Copyright

Lenore Greenberg.mp3

2018-10-18

Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni

53:35 minutes

Alumni Interviews
Interview with: Lenore Ruth Greenberg
Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov
Transcriber: Oral History Lab
Date of interview: 18 October 2018
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(Start of Interview)

LG: 00:02
So, my name is Lenore Greenberg. I am a 1972 graduate of Harpur College. I have been- I left Harpur and got a master's at SUNY Albany, (19)74 in library science, and I am now happily retired, we are sitting in Malvern having a discussion about my memories or recollections from the (19)60s, and I hope other things too,

IG: 00:30
Very good. So where- just tell us a little bit about where you grew up, what your parents did, what your upbringing was like.

LG: 00:40
Okay, I grew up on Long Island in Great Neck. My father was an account executive, and my mom was a quote and quote, homemaker. When I was in seventh grade, she started again, working outside the house, starting with the with the Girl Scouts. And I had two siblings. We lived in a one family house with the dog and the two parents and the three children. And my dad had gone to college. He had a degree in chemistry. My mother, who was very bright, had not gone to college, and I do not know what else I should tell you about that.

IG: 01:27
Well, that gives us a sense so you were encouraged to pursue your studies. I take it.

LG: 01:40
No, I was not discouraged. Certainly, my brother did not go to college. My sister and I both did. And yeah, I guess I was supported to go to college, not with a particular career path in mind, because I did not know what I wanted to do, and so I wanted to get a good general education, which is part of how I ended up at Harpur and then subsequently made a career path. But my parents were supportive, and they were proud of me for going to school and going to a good school and graduating.

IG: 02:22
Good, so why did you decide on Harpur College? Did you look at other schools?

LG: 02:29
I did, certainly look at other schools. I transferred into Harpur after my freshman year. I was at a local school, and I just did not feel it was giving me enough of what I was looking for, I applied to several of the SUNYs happily got into them, and the program at Harpur was more to my liking. I went to visit. I am not going to mention the other ones. I went to visit, and I liked what I saw more at Binghamton. Then when I saw at the other schools, part of what I liked was the size of the school, and I think it is a lot bigger now, from what I have been reading, but I looked at some of the different university centers, and Binghamton seemed a nicer fit for me.

IG: 03:16
Right. So, and what year did you enter Binghamton? What was the when you transferred? What year was that?

LG: 03:24
My sophomore year, and which would have been (19)69, (19)70.

IG: 03:29
(19)69. So, what did the campus what was the campus like? What was the environment like when you came in?

LG: 03:35
In terms of the buildings, they were not it was they were not too pretty. They were utilitarian. And certainly, most of the time it seemed like there was snow on the campus, but the I think educational opportunities were outstanding, and I then had a school experience to compare it to. And in fact, one summer, I also took a course at the local community college because I wanted to get some more credits under my belt. And I just thought Binghamton was a nicer intellectual environment-

IG: 04:23
Right-right.

LG: 04:23
-than the others I had experienced.

IG: 04:25
Right. So, and what were the- your fellow students like this was a time of great change and ferment on campuses, on college campuses, what did you experience of that?

LG: 04:45
And-and I had a sense that Binghamton was a little bit more out there than some other schools, too.

IG: 04:51
Yeah.

LG: 04:53
A lot of the other students, I knew. It was when I was at Harpur. And I am using the terms kind of interchangeably obviously, a lot of the other students were down staters were predominantly but not in all Jewish Americans. And there was certainly a diversity, but it was a disproportionately white down state school environment. I think I lost the rest of your question.

IG: 05:23
So just what were the students like? So, you are describing that, that they were kind of more out there, and it was-

LG: 05:31
I will give you a perfect example out there. Perfect example. It was not until my senior year of school that I had spring finals, because every other year the school closed down for protests against the Vietnam War.

IG: 05:46
Wow, that is great.

LG: 05:47
And one year I remember going to Washington by bus. One year I remember going to Washington in somebody's Volkswagen, but we went and we marched, and 1000s people left Harpur to go protest the war.

IG: 06:04
Okay, so did your parents- were your parents politically inclined? Were they?

LG: 06:10
Not until Kent State, my parents were-

IG: 06:13
They reacted to it.

LG: 06:14
Yes, my parents were not enthusiastic. I was going off on these various marches and that that school was closed for us to go protest the Vietnam War after Kent State, my father, who was even more conservative than my mother, said he supported the end of the war and understood what we were doing, remembering, of course, that There was a draft at that point and so, a draft for young men, and so all young men were being caught up in that it was not a volunteer military, and that made a huge difference. So, there was the-the political and economic reasons, and there was the draft reasons. People certainly did not want to get involved. I knew people who went to Canada rather than get drafted if they had a low draft number. So-so there was a politically active environment. I still went to school and I still learned things, but there were a lot of politics going on. I saw- you might be thinking about things like women's rights and gay rights. There was some early Inklings when I was at Harpur, but I would not say a lot. There was a gay association meeting, but I do not think there were a lot of people who showed up for it. I do not know for sure. I for sure. And feminism was something that, philosophically, one believed in, but there was not a lot of consciousness raising yet. So, it was really on the cusp of a lot of these things.

IG: 07:53
I think, I think that that is the sense that I have gotten from other alumni I have interviewed. So, I am just curious, where did your obviously, you were very engaged in the politics of the time. Where did you politicize- how did your politicization come about? Was it from high school? It was, did it happen at Harpur College? Do you remember how that happened?

LG: 08:22
It is a good question. I would have to say kind of yes and yes. In high school, lots of people were concerned, involved doing things about civil rights, and think there was an evolution to the, to-to world view. And of course, a disproportionate number of the soldiers of American soldiers in Vietnam were minority soldiers, so it was a likely evolution. As an example, when I was in high school, Martin Luther King spoke at my synagogue, and he spoke about civil rights, [crosstalk] yeah,

IG: 09:04
I did not know.

LG: 09:05
And he spoke about, of course, civil right. And I remember one of the congregants said to him, "What about the war in Vietnam? What is your stance?" His answer at that point was, I am paraphrasing wildly, was basically, "I have enough on my plate trying to deal with civil rights at home." This was before the Voting Rights Act had been passed. Shortly thereafter, he came out against the war in Vietnam, because it is all interrelated. And so, from high school, there were political issues going on at Harpur, it was even more so. There was more of an awareness. And whether it was other students or some of the faculty or articles in the newspaper, the campus paper, or information on the news, there was more of an awareness. And I think virtually everybody I socialized with, if not literally everyone who I considered friends would were equally involved and motivated to do something specifically about the war and then about other issues as well.

IG: 10:17
So-so, you know, I mean, it was, it was you were, you were in the I do not know how many marches on Washington there were, but you were, you were there. Could you describe how you sort of rallied together as a group and went on one of these marches?

LG: 10:40
I have been to Washington many times for different marches

IG: 10:45
As a Harpur College student?

LG: 10:46
Right-right. So, there were things having been there even before on other marches, there were things I was used to, things I would look at. And I have also been to Washington since then for other protest marches. So, I remember one year going down, and I think that was the year we took the bus. We all busses out of Binghamton, and we stayed more or less as a group and followed the route that had been set. But I remember the following year when we were in cars, and this was salient to how I traveled, because we came into the city by a different route, and seeing tanks and soldiers with guns, machine guns, on top of federal buildings. And whereas that certainly was both meant to and accomplished intimidation. It was meant to intimidate us. It also redoubled our spirit that we were there for a reason to tell the government what they had to do, not agree, just to let things go on as they are. So, we marched this group. I do not remember if we launched behind any banner that said SUNY Binghamton or not, but there were 1000s, or 10s of 1000s, certainly, of people protesting the war. And when we read about it the next day in the paper or we saw it on the TV news, we felt we were trying, we were accomplishing something to get our voices heard that this was an inappropriate action by our government.

IG: 12:21
That, you know, it must be a tremendous experience to have a sense that at a young age, your actions can actually influence world politics, world you know, I do not know that this generation has the sense.

LG: 12:39
Which generation you are talking?

IG: 12:40
Well, the current, you know-

LG: 12:41
I think-

LG: 12:42
I think, for example, on gun control, the people, I hope, are at Harpur now, I think are more involved in trying to get some sane gun laws passed, because they were feeling more impacted by it. The baby boomers definitely impacted what was going on in Vietnam and definitely impacted foreign policy. That is huge thing. I expected my generation to keep doing things like that, and I think we have done some other things, but not as dramatic,

IG: 12:42
-certainly-

IG: 13:14
Not as dramatic as (19)60s.

LG: 13:16
Well, you have to have something dramatic to fight against to have some dramatic results. And-and

IG: 13:23
As we do now.

LG: 13:24
And so, for example, we have gone to the women's march in DC, and

IG: 13:32
But that was after your time at Harpur. This was-

LG: 13:35
Yes, two years ago. I am saying, for example,

IG: 13:37
I see.

LG: 13:39
So, there is a continuity of social activism.

IG: 13:42
That is wonderful.

LG: 13:44
Or we have gone to some gun-gun control rallies. So, I think there is a continuity. And I know I am in touch still with a couple of people who I went to school with, and I know one was a lawyer who deals with immigration rights, so she has made it her career to help people. And another one, who was, who was an artist also does social or volunteer work, I think is the best word with a very diverse group. So, I think there is a thread that is followed through. I feel from my time at Harpur, I think other people probably do too.

IG: 14:33
I think, you know, it is certainly true, but they express their engagement with the-the world in different ways, you know, they may not have been, as the people that I have spoken to, you know, continue being participants in group protest. I think that this is, you know, this is your-your path. This is

LG: 15:01
One of the famous quotes out of early feminism. Is the personal is political. So however, you take it, to implement it if you have an emotional or political stance that something should be this way or that way?

IG: 15:15
Yeah, well, let us talk about this a little bit. Because, you know, in the late (19)60s, certainly, you know, this is a time of rethinking roles and in the household, and you know you were, you were brought up, maybe in a certain way, and you know, maybe to, I do not know, I do not want to put words into your mouth that, you know, maybe your parents expected you to get married, you know, to have a family or not. But you know, how did that sort of, you know, expanding of consciousness take place, and was it at all at college or?

LG: 15:59
Certainly, I think it was expected that I would, I would have the more traditional life path and find a husband and have some kids and follow that path, which obviously I have not. I think more of the consciousness raising was post Binghamton years more so when I was in graduate school, I think feminist movement got more of its legs under it, or at least I knew more about it at that point.

IG: 16:29
What years did you go to graduate at-

LG: 16:31
I graduated in (19)74 and this is from SUNY Albany.

IG: 16:36
Yeah, so, but-but sort of, you know, feminism, the feminist movement. When did it start kicking in in the late (19)70s, or, you know, I mean-

LG: 16:49
Oh no, early-early, way earlier. Sidebar, I was at a dinner at which Gloria Steinem spoke and I rifled through some of my old stuff, and I found my first copy of MS Magazine, and I took it to her and got her to sign it my prized possession. And she looked at the cover, and it shows Wonder Woman striding over the land and saying, health care for everyone and food for everyone and end the war. And Gloria Steinem said to me, "Would not it be wonderful if we could have accomplished that in these years?" And I said, "Who was still working for it?" And so, there is things do not happen overnight. And we still keep looking for them.

IG: 17:36
Yeah. But it is, it is, it is tremendous how you know, what a sea change mores, you know, norms, yes, social norms have undergone, you know, and since you graduated.

LG: 17:54
Yes, absolutely-absolutely, most of the- I was an English Lit major.

IG: 18:01
Yeah, tell us, we need to talk about it.

LG: 18:03
Okay, most of the authors whose works I studied were men.

IG: 18:10
Yes.

LG: 18:13
With very few exceptions. And so, one could graduate at that point and think that the only literature had been written by men.

IG: 18:25
Well, with the exception of Austin and Brontes.

LG: 18:28
Yes, I said, yeah. [crosstalk] But really, far fewer than-

IG: 18:33
Far fewer, of course, of course.

LG: 18:36
-just a whole different world, and not only men, but European men.

IG: 18:39
Yes.

LG: 18:40
So, the voices we heard were very different than what a curriculum is now. And I have, I have spoken to friends of mine who are either professors or even high school teachers, and asked them and gotten book record. Asked them what-what their curriculum is, what-what, who was- what authors they are reading, got recommendations and follow through on things like that. Because I feel that my education, although wonderful, was very stilted/ We did not know it. Then, of course

IG: 19:12
We did not know that. We did not know that.

LG: 19:13
We thought, we thought, well, these are the voices, whereas, obviously they were some of the voices.

IG: 19:15
There were some of the voices right.

LG: 19:24
Even I took a course specifically in American Jewish fiction. And I was thinking about this the other day when I knew-

IG: 19:35
Bella Roth.

LG: 19:37
All-all of the writers we studied exactly-

IG: 19:41
Were men.

LG: 19:42
-were men. Now, subsequently-

IG: 19:45
Yeah, subsequently.

LG: 19:46
-I know that there have been women writers, and fine women writers. Should have been included. It was just, shall I say, an assumption, yeah, this is who you would study. So, there was built in by. Bias that I believe has been rectified in coursework these days, but when I was there, it was not.

IG: 20:09
So, was it frightening? Was it frightening to kind of go against the grain in some way, or I mean, what was the emotional impact of that?

LG: 20:21
In terms of?

IG: 20:23
In terms of, you know, of siding with siding with the activists, the feminist activists, and-

LG: 20:32
Certainly, being an activist against war in Vietnam was something that virtually everybody at Harpur did, so that was siding with, siding with, with people who were there, yeah, becoming more feminist was, is, and still is somewhat challenged by people. But when you, when something is, you do it, right choice. It is the right thing.

IG: 21:04
Right. So, but that is that is looking at the past, you know, that is looking at the past from the perspective of now, but it might have been, you know, anyway. I mean, it is just, it is interesting to consider that, you know, you still probably have to go through some kind of emotional journey, right?

LG: 21:24
Sure-sure.

IG: 21:25
Yeah, okay, so-so, you know, let us How did you, you know, let us talk about your easier subjects, your-your coursework, and some memorable professors and-

LG: 21:41
Coursework professors. That is been a few years. So, I may not come up with names as readily. Because it just, you know, other things that I am thinking about. There were some very large lecture halls, and then we would have teaching assistants who might do some follow up classwork with us. I do not know if that is still a structure in use.

IG: 22:03
Probably.

LG: 22:04
As the years went on, the classes got smaller because they were more specialized. They were less generalized. And so that one class I mentioned was, I am thinking, two dozen students, an off the cuff guesstimate, and I remember some of the professors and the outstanding ones I thought were extraordinary. I thought they were wonderful. But I do not know that I am going to come up with any of their names.

IG: 22:35
It does not it does not matter what were some of the classes that you took that still have maybe an impact, that they open something for you.

LG: 22:46
So certainly, some of the Shakespeare classes were wonderful, and American literature I found meaningful and in which way, in which way, learning about new things, learning about new subjects, topics, issues that I had not known about. I mean, as a kid, I did not know about them, Shakespeare, in terms of all he brings to any of his plays in human aspects and how people deal with one another. I took a course in the Bible is literature, yeah, and I had not occurred to me that that even could have been taught that way, and learning the-the logic of the flow of the Bible was just a mind expansion for one of description and so and so. What I think I got out of a lot of it was not only new thoughts, but ways to think of things, not necessarily the ways I had thought of them before. That it was that anything I was looking at were opportunities to think about them in a different path.

IG: 24:01
That is very interesting. Okay, so returning also to campus. So, you-you were very involved in the anti-war movement, but you know how and-and your classes, obviously, how did you spend the rest of your free time on campus was, was Harpur College? Was it still Harpur College a party school? Did? Were there parties? Were there? I mean, how did-

LG: 24:40
I would not think of it as a quote, unquote party school, because my definition of a party school is that-that is the main reason some people are there. Now I had one friend who was absolutely partying all the time, but she never graduated. And yes, I would have to say there were parties, but um, not capriciously, people, by and large, did also study or go to school, and that was the main reason we were there. I remember one night, somebody said we should have a party, and somebody else said, “We need an excuse. What is the reason?” somebody in this group looked at the calendar and said, "Oh, it is Arizona Statehood Day." So, we had an Arizona Statehood Day party that went on for several years. [crosstalk] the dorm [crosstalk]I have no idea if it continues. It was an excuse for a party, but I do not think of it as primarily a party school. There was great camaraderie, there was great socialization. Sometimes just walk down the hall and fall into somebody else's dorm room and, you know, talk for hours and hours. But it was not specifically a let us go out and drink school when I was there.

IG: 25:52
And there were, in particularly, a lot of bars to go drinking.

LG: 25:56
I do not recall a lot of bars in the neighborhood at all.

IG: 25:59
Well, you know, and Binghamton, I mean, you come from Great Neck, so you were, I mean, Long Island was different when you were growing up, right than it is now. So, you probably had seen sort of, you know, pockets of more rural life around you in Long Island. But how did Binghamton strike you; did it give you a sense that America is very different than your particular, you know, New York experience.

LG: 26:31
Hmm.

IG: 26:33
Did- I mean? What? What did you think of Binghamton?

LG: 26:37
We have already discussed what I thought of the weather, so that was not a selling point. And the area, I did not think the city was too sophisticated. Trying to get a good bagel was virtually impossible. We had a friend who was a Vietnam vet, and his job was to drive down to Monticello and come back with his Volkswagen filled with bagels to be sold on the weekend in Binghamton. But any other time of the week, if you wanted to get a bagel, it was a hard thing to find a decent bagel. So obviously not a problem on Long Island at that point or this point either. So, Binghamton seemed a lot more, a lot less sophisticated than the island at that point. And that may be snobbery from where I grew up, or it may be a reflection of the times. But speaking of the times, you could not get the New York Times easily in Binghamton. You pre order it, but it was not readily available.

IG: 27:48
You mean the library did not carry it.

LG: 27:49
I do not know if the library got it, but you could not get your own copy. I know that. Whereas, couple years later, when I was in Albany, there were new stands where I could get the times. So, BMW was not the most sophisticated area. But I was not there for-for museums or theater, for example. I was there for the school. So, although I do remember Roberson Gallery, I do not know if it is still there.

IG: 28:15
It is. It is.

LG: 28:16
That that that plate that I had given to my parents, the one on the bottom there.

IG: 28:20
I can see it from-from-from here. Yeah, yeah, it still exists. And there is a wonderful art museum also that you know has sort of astonishingly good, surprisingly good exhibitions. It has, I do not know if you know the photographer, Jay Jaffee, they are all photo, you know, I mean, it is the entire collection. I have them on my iPhone because I sent them to friends. It is New York in the early (19)50s. It is wonderful-wonderful.

LG: 28:43
No, I remember going to that gallery specifically to get, kind of, shall I say, a fix of art, to see some art. thinking it was a very accessible size, right? Metropolitan in New York, and it was overwhelming, but we could go to that one and really, get a good night that we could appreciate of the artwork.

IG: 29:13
Yeah, I mean their pockets, their pockets of culture, you know, theater, for example,

LG: 29:18
And-and there was a lot of music, a lot of music, music, yes, at Harpur, when I was there, both live music, there were some wonderful concerts and a range of artists

IG: 29:30
On campus?

LG: 29:31
On campus, yes, a range of artists. And then people were always playing music on their phonographs to drink that story. But when I was at Harpur there, Ella Fitzgerald came,

IG: 29:44
Oh well.

LG: 29:44
Grateful Dead were there Sha Na Na. And then smaller venues, smaller performers like Dave Van Ronk, so there was a wide swath of live music. And, and we went, you know, you would go, you get a ticket for a few bucks and have this wonderful performance. outstanding. So that was part of the social life too.

IG: 30:13
That was part of the social Yeah, very much so, and probably greater participation from students then than now. I do not know how many students go to the concerts now, so you mentioned that you earlier that you did not really spend the summers in on campus because it was going there was a tri semester-

LG: 30:37
Yes.

IG: 30:38
-system, so you return to Long Island during the summer? Did you work? Or did you just kind of kick back?

LG: 30:48
One summer, I went to one of local colleges to get some more credits. And the other summers, I worked basically as a waitress for restaurants-

LG: 30:58
Right-right-right.

LG: 30:59
to get some cash.

IG: 31:01
Right-right-right. So, you know, issues of the time, we talked about the war, we talked about the civil rights. Were there any did you notice that there were any minority students on campus?

LG: 31:17
Absolutely, absolutely, and it was not segregated.

IG: 31:22
No.

LG: 31:23
People I considered my group of friends were different backgrounds, different races, um, although, as I said before, it was clearly majority white, downstate students there, a mixed community.

IG: 31:47
You know, in on campus, you are probably just a handful.

LG: 31:51
I do not, I do not think there were a lot of minorities.

IG: 31:54
There were not a lot of- any international students, do you remember?

LG: 31:57
I remember one student from, from Iran,

IG: 32:01
Oh!

LG: 32:02
And but I do not remember students right other places

IG: 32:08
Right. Okay, that is fair enough. Okay, so have you been going back to Binghamton for any of the homecoming celebration?

LG: 32:19
I have not gone back to Binghamton. In fact, we were discussing before, how is I worked as a consultant for quite a while. At one point I had a client upstate, and we drove by. And I thought, well, I could stop in, but the place in my mind is set in my mind, and it is very much different place now. And I have not gone to homecoming because the people I was friendly with, I have not seen their names listed as they were going. And just to see other people my age, I can do that anywhere. So, I have not gone back to the school.

IG: 32:59
I was surprised that there were at least 1000 you know, names. I do not know how many showed up for this particular homecoming.

LG: 33:11
Now, I will say, just interrupt you a second. A couple of years ago, I did. We went into the city, met a couple of friends who had been on my dorm floor. They had recently had a lunch with another friend who had come up from Florida. I was not able to make that and I said, but let me know if there was another opportunity we got together, and I have kept contact with one of them, although the other one has gone away. So, it is a more personal self-development, if you will, without going to the campuses.

IG: 33:43
Okay, that is fair enough. So, you know you graduated, and could you give us a sense of your career trajectory after-after graduation, you went to library schools, right?

LG: 33:58
So, I got my master's two years later from SUNY Albany school library science. And my personal goal was to help people find information. And first job I got was in a not for profit for people with severe physical disabilities. And had a research program. I was helping the research get done and involved in some of the research activities, a wonderful program, and it ended when the federal grant ended, and it was not a good economic time. And I had-

IG: 34:32
Was this in New York City, or this is-

LG: 34:35
Long Island. I had applied all over the country, and ended up getting something within 10 miles of where I lived. When that grant ended, I looked very hard to find a new job, and could not find anything at that point within the library field, and I was open to other opportunities because I wanted a job, and I got a job in records management with a bank in Brooklyn. And they wanted somebody who knew how to handle information. And it was a small bank that grew dramatically during the decade or so that I was there, not just because I was there, obviously the way it was managed, but when we would acquire another bank, it meant, what information did they have. How were they managing and how did they control it? How did they get rid of the information when it was time? Did they have a role for what to keep and what to get rid of? And so, I was involved in those merger activities. From there, I went to the music industry. So, it was kind of a pun on records management, because they music industry has to deal with records and sound records and informational records. And I did that for about a decade.

IG: 35:49
What was the did you work for a company or organization?

LG: 35:53
Worked for a Performing Rights Society. So, we had to track when different songs were performed and the audience who had the opportunity to hear them, a Binghamton station has a smaller audience than a New York City Station, and then royalties would be paid out to those performers, specifically the writers and the publishers and the music, rather than the performers, per se. And I did that for, as I said, about a decade, and then segued back into more of a business world and into consulting, where I did work for a company, so I had his salary and benefits and all that, but had different clients and helped them develop or implement records management program.

IG: 36:41
And also, the field changed with automation.

LG: 36:46
All of all these fields change, whether we are talking library science or records management. For example, you have your primary copies of information the-the way a record is initially developed, and then when it is digitized, it is secondary copy, but it is available to more people, so we would do the same sort of things. I had a client who was a big real estate company headquartered in New York City, and they wanted to take their various leases and legal documents and digitize them to safeguard the originals, but have access to the information. And you know, sure your library is doing similar things with original yes versus secondary copies.

IG: 37:31
And when did the records management, you know, industry become automated? Was it in the early (19)90s, or do you rem-

LG: 37:43
Again, things evolve. Formats evolve. So, you had microfilm going back decades, and it is a wonderful archival format. People do not like to use, and when I went to the bank in the early (19)80s, we were micro filming right mortgage documents. So, and then that evolved to digitizing documents or the microfilm into searchable databases that are more accessible. So, it is an evolution.

IG: 38:18
An evolution. And so, you have been a consultant for how long? And just tell us about your consulting work.

LG: 38:29
I consulted for well over a decade. and I got clients. I was not a salesperson. I got clients who were in industries that were heavily regulated or and or heavily litigated. So, most of my clients were interstate, national or sometimes international companies in for example, insurance, pharmacy, financial services. And if they did not manage the information, they would just be keeping too much. That would cost them too much, in terms of litigation, could be researched for too long. So it was too much to handle, and they had to know what to keep, how long to keep it, when to get rid of it, when to track, all right, all of that, what was their reasons for keeping or reasons for getting rid of information which are both based on corporate needs and based on legislative needs.

IG: 39:39
So, what kind of where did you consult? What kind of companies or whom did you consult for? You know, what type of businesses?

LG: 39:51
Yeah, I am purposely not going to tell you the names [crosstalk] Okay, agreed. So, a lot of banks. A few some insurance companies, health care related information. And each of these industries has different rules and regulations, and from state to state, the rules are different with international clients, and I had clients, both in Canada and Europe. The rules, again, are different and what can be kept and what can be what information should be gotten rid of, and where it can be kept, change from place to place. So, we had a legal team that we worked with to help us come up with the recommendations back to these companies, and then also, I should say, on occasion, I did some pro bono work. I did a program for a local not for profit that did housing for low-income people, because I thought it was the right thing to do, and I had the knowledge and ability and time to do it

IG: 40:59
Wonderful.

LG: 41:00
So, there was a variety of kinds of clients. From fortune 25 to this company with fewer than 25 people on staff.

IG: 41:11
Right-right. So, would you say that you have been happy in your career?

LG: 41:20
By and large, I had liked my career. There was certainly ups and downs, but I found it. I found the work I did both challenging and reinforcing. And when I was consulting, I got to do a lot of traveling on somebody else's dime. [crosstalk]I love to travel. And so not only would I get to meet new people, but I get to see new places. And even when it was a city that one would not necessarily pick as a vacation spot, I had a client in Winnipeg, Canada, I had fun there. I met new people; I saw new things. They have a Chinese restaurant at their baseball stadium. It is called, who is on first, terrible [inaudible], but it was funny. It is a good story. So, and I got to meet some wonderful people in other places. So-so, yes, by and large, I liked my career a lot. Yeah.

IG: 42:21
Could we ask you how you met your wife? What [crosstalk] more personal?

LG: 42:29
More personal. So, I mentioned that I went to work for a bank, after my stint as a librarian, and I was hired to be there, I became their records management officer. I was hired

IG: 42:41
This was how many years ago?

LG: 42:44
I joined the bank, in 1982.

IG: 42:46
Okay.

LG: 42:49
And so, I was in charge of the records management program and dealing with all the different branches and corporate offices and corporate functions. And Roberta came in to be one of the trainers, and so we were both in fields or functions. We have to understand the operations that are going on right and communicate the information. And we started working together. She was doing a program for interns, basically coming into the bank and getting them trained. And one of the areas was for them to learn about what information records to keep and how to keep them. So, we had some-some meetings. Eventually started carpooling, because although the bank was in Brooklyn, our-our office were both in Brooklyn, we both lived in Queens at that point. So, we started car

IG: 43:40
Where in Queens?

LG: 43:42
Near St, John's University.

IG: 43:43
Oh, I know.

LG: 43:45
So, we started carpooling and-and we became friends, and then it developed into a relationship, and we have celebrated our 32nd anniversary.

IG: 43:58
That is wonderful.

LG: 43:59
And we have been married three times because when we first got married, we were married in a synagogue. Reformed Jewish movement said we could get married. We were the first gay couple congregants who got married at Temple, but our rabbi had to make a statement it was not a legal marriage because we were not allowed to be legally married. And then we went out to San Francisco. We got legally married. If you recall when the states were doing marriages here and there, several years after, then the third time, we got married in our current synagogue, and it is legal in New York, and now it is Supreme Court decision, legal everywhere. So that is all good. Anything else? [laughter]

IG: 44:46
[crosstalk] taking it in, because it is so interesting. So that must have been tremendously satisfying to have the Supreme Court decision allow you to-

LG: 44:58
The Supreme Court. at that point, made a decision and said, all Americans can have equal rights. You know, we, of course, had to draw up extra legal documentation. Even just a handful of years ago, we drove down to Florida, and as we were driving through the Carolinas, we were mindful that we had to have documentation in case, God forbid, one of us got sick, to say the other one is to say the other one has legal rights to say what our health care decision should be, because in Carolinas at that point, they were not in agreement. So, but I will tell you another story that I also thought was very satisfying when we got married in temple in 2004 my mother walked us down the aisle, and she was at that point, 91 she was, I think, the oldest congregant in temple at that point, and the potentially the longest-term congregant at that synagogue at that point. And it was such a statement to everybody, not only that the rabbis and the cantor were there for our wedding, but that my mother was-was literally walking us down the aisle and-and loving us both, as she had been at my brother's wedding, my sister's wedding. But this was in the same part of the synagogue where they had each been married. But it was a different thing, and it was a, to me, a huge statement. And it certainly had not always been that way. My mother was-was certainly very loving and supportive, and the three of us were wonderful friends, Roberta and my mom and I, but that turned evolution also so, so I am laughing because Roberta is doing some show and tell that was-was at our wedding, and that is my mom in the middle. And we decided to-to have these wonderful hand painted jackets that were just-just we are here. This is a wonderful statement, and it was a wonderful event, and um-

IG: 47:20
What do you think are the most important qualities to really weather an evolution in your lifetime? I mean patience, of course, but-

LG: 47:34
I have a sense of humor, yeah, and I also am tenacious, so you can just lie down. Do not worry. So-so although I can concurrently keep the long-term view in mind and the immediate details in mind, itis a skill I used in and honed in business. What is the end goal of where I want to be, but what are the steps I have to take to get there now, it is something that I do now in my volunteer work, approving expenses through the budget now, but also saying, “Where do we want to be in five years and 10 years?” So it is that kind of view, and I do think having patience and having a sense of humor are very good skills to help accomplish anything and to keep a perspective, because there are days that get very distressing with-with different news items that come along with different things we hear about. But progress, I think, is on a positive bend, a positive arc, that things are better for people. We were sitting at Temple last Friday, and one of the women we know came up to tell us that her daughter has a new girlfriend. And she was very happy to tell us that, and she was telling everybody sitting at our table a dozen or so people, but this is something that would not have happened a decade or two or three or more ago.

IG: 49:07
No, this is, I think, that this is very inspired advice for you know, current students, for example, listening or, you know, to these conversations. What advice would you give to, you know, I mean, students in the future will be very different. But you know, what are, what are some of the lights you have given you know, you have given advice right now of how to live through an evolution of change. What other, what other sort of, you know, career advice, for example, would you give a young person listening to this conversation?

LG: 49:51
One of the thoughts I had when you were speaking was, I am not sure that the students are different, per se. Uh, students are in school because they want to learn.

IG: 49:57
Yes.

LG: 49:58
And they want to they are learning because they want to end up going somewhere.

IG: 50:06
Yeah, they may have different-

LG: 50:06
Different technologies, you know. So where is, where is? I went to class with pen and ink to-to take notes. Very different technology. It is very-

IG: 50:08
But I think also the economy dictates the type of focus that a student has, because when I was going to school, I imagined that I could have a career in liberal arts. Now, students are much more sort of professional minded and so but that is another conversation.

LG: 50:38
Yeah, different career paths and different opportunities based on things we said, like feminism. When I was in school, most lawyers, most people going to law school, were men. Ditto medical school. Now the numbers have changed. Same with nursing school, most of them were women. Now there is good representation, very different numbers. I personally, I think having a big picture view of where you want to be going is important. Being willing to change that picture, is important. Being tenacious little bumps in the road, even if they seem big at this point, right, can generally be surmounted or walked around, gotten around one way or another. I do not feel old enough to be giving sage advice, but experience tells me that tenacity is really important. Wanting to keep going is really important. Not letting other people stop you is really important. Continuing to learn is really important, continuing to grow, continuing to do things, continuing to be open to new things, is important. And I think that is that is key tools in anybody's toolkit for a career or for evolving into a better citizen, a better person.

IG: 52:13
This has been very lovely and-and moving.

LG: 52:18
Thank you.

IG: 52:19
Any concluding remarks?

LG: 52:24
Well, you came. You came. You contacted me. You came from Binghamton. I have to tell you that I consider Harpur and Binghamton to have been a wildly important time of my life. And I was not a great student. I was not an A level student, when I was there, I was an okay. I was good student. I was an average student, I think. But what I learned was that I could, not only did I learn how to learn which is more important than little facts, I knew how to get information when I needed it, but I learned that I could manage with the best and the brightest. I learned that in an environment with phenomenally intelligent, witty, wonderful other people, I could hold my own, and that is a life skill that when I got to college I did not have, and it certainly has served me well, and so I think that is a good concluding remark.

IG: 53:28
That is wonderful. Thank you very much.

LG: 53:32
Thank you.

IG: 53:32
Thank you.

LG: 53:33
I have enjoyed this.

IG: 53:34
I have to-

(End of Interview)

2018-10-18

Irene Gashurov

1972

Lenore Ruth Greenberg

After earning her degree at Binghamton, Lenore earned a master’s degree in library sciences from SUNY Albany. She worked in records management at numerous companies, including Iron Mountain LLC. She was also adjunct professor of records management at Nassau Community College in Garden City, NY. Partners since 1985, Ms. Greenberg and her wife Ms. Roberta Treacy were early champions of marriage equality. They met while working at Anchor Savings Bank in Brooklyn. 

Audio

Harpur College – Seventies alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni on Harpur Law Council Board; Harpur College – Alumni in New York City; Harpur College – Alumni living in Connecticut; Harpur College – LGBTQ Alumni

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Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in library science; Harpur College – Alumni from Great Neck, Long Island; Harpur College – Alumni living in Malverne, Long Island; Harpur College – LGBTQ Alumni