Interview with John Ellis

Interview with John Ellis

Ellis, John ; Gashurov, Irene

2019-11-08

In Copyright

John Ellis.mp3

2019-11-08

Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni

38:59 minutes

6b87342d-7733-4e98-ae04-520bac72a364

Alumni Interviews
Interview with: John Ellis
Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov
Transcriber: Oral History Lab
Date of interview: 11 August 2019
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(Start of Interview)

IG: 00:02
Okay, we are on.

JE: 00:04
My name is John Ellis. I graduated from Harpur College in 1970 in the political science department, and in 1971 I went to graduate school in the history department for a year. We are conducting an interview of my home on 43 Lathrop Avenue in Binghamton, and Irene is here doing an interview, and then she is going to explain to me a project she is working on for the library.

IG: 00:31
So, tell us a little bit about your upbringing. Where did you grow up, and who your parents were, what they did for a living?

JE: 00:40
Okay, I was born in Binghamton. I grew up in Chenango Street in Hillcrest. My family ran a furniture store there, and from 1971 until 2016 I also worked there. And my father's name was Nelson Ellis, and my mother was Catherine Ellis.

IG: 01:01
And were you the only child?

JE: 01:04
I had two older sisters.

IG: 01:06
Uh huh. And did your parents encourage education and your higher education? Were there expectations of your going on to college?

JE: 01:21
Yes, [inaudible] was a school teacher before she helped my dad in the family business, and I went to a small Catholic school after graduating from Catholic high school for a year, and after that I transferred to Harpur College, and I was able to go to school and work at the same time at our business.

IG: 01:41
So, you were so you were studying full time or part time?

JE: 01:46
Full time.

IG: 01:46
Full time, and you were working as well.

JE: 01:48
Two nights and Saturdays. Yeah.

IG: 01:50
Yeah. So, what was the reputation of Harpur College? Was it Binghamton or Harpur that you attended?

JE: 02:01
I started at Harpur College.

IG: 02:02
Yeah.

JE: 02:02
For a very short time, it was the State University of Binghamton, or SUAB.

IG: 02:06
Right.

JE: 02:06
And then I graduated from SUNY Binghamton.

IG: 02:09
Uh huh.

JE: 02:09
So, it was when we were there. It was really going through a transition.

IG: 02:12
Right.

JE: 02:13
From really a small liberal arts school to more of a university center.

IG: 02:22
Um. So-so what was the reputation of Harpur College back then?

JE: 02:27
It was considered, I think, to be, you know, one of the better private schools for liberal arts, and we had heard it called the public Harvard. Then my son went to Tulane, and that was considered the Harvard of the South. So apparently there are a lot of offshoots of Harvard that are compared, but it had a very good academic reputation. At that time, the student body was largely from the New York City and Long Island area.

IG: 02:57
Right.

JE: 02:57
So, there was a, I would say, there was a little cultural conflict in the early days that I was there between the community and the campus.

IG: 03:07
But this is a cultural conflict that you overcame by knowing-

JE: 03:12
Oh, I think so.

IG: 03:13
-these students,

JE: 03:14
And then, oh yeah, I mean I did not have that feeling, but then also myself and some of my classmates ran a teen center on Clinton Street, so that got people involved in the community that gave them a little different view of the town, I think. And then I worked two years at Upward Bound in the summer, so we worked with high school students at that time too, with a very illustrious alumni, Sal Vizcarrondo.

IG: 03:45
Who?

JE: 03:46
Sal Vizcarrondo. I have his contact information. He would be a very interesting

IG: 03:51
Vizcarrondo.

JE: 03:52
V I Z C A N D O, I think. I can give you his phone.

IG: 03:58
Yeah, later on. Is he also in Binghamton?

JE: 04:00
Yeah, he worked here for years in Upward Bound, and now works in the Binghamton school system.

IG: 04:04
Okay, there is somebody else whom I interviewed who worked in Upward Bound, but I forget his name right now.

JE: 04:12
John Doherty. He was the director.

IG: 04:14
No.

JE: 04:15
McCormick.

IG: 04:16
No.

JE: 04:17
I do not know who might be.

IG: 04:18
Yeah, I will look.

JE: 04:18
Yeah.

IG: 04:19
I will look it up. I just it is not. It is not on the top of my mind. So-so what was your experience of academics at Harpur at first? You know, when it was still smaller.

JE: 04:36
I loved it from the first day I walked on campus.

IG: 04:38
You loved it from the first day. So-

JE: 04:40
I had been at a very rigid system of Catholic high school, Catholic college, and I found the atmosphere there, you know, very welcoming. And the professors I had were just outstanding, especially my advisor Otto Ulc in the political science department. He was a brilliant teacher and a very humane and nice man, so I had a very good experience.

IG: 05:04
Who were some of the other? Do you remember any faculty that really made an impression on you?

JE: 05:12
Well, Dr. Ulc, also Dr. Walter Filley from the Political Science Department, Paul Smith, Professor Huggins [Nathan Huggins] in History, and Dave Makowski in sociology, and Rebecca Grajover in political science too. But she was only there my first year.

IG: 05:30
How do you think that they- do-do you think that any one of these professors opened your mind in in a in a way that was significant?

JE: 05:40
I like to say that Dr. Ulc taught us not what to think, but how to think, and I think he really did that. He was very, very, very encouraging. Can I get that just a second here?

IG: 05:54
Okay, so we are back with John Ellis.

JE: 05:59
And I had mentioned Dr. Ulc as an influence, and also, I would say David Makowski in sociology was a very creative and engaging teacher.

IG: 06:11
Do you remember anything that you started to see differently as a result of your of being under their tutelage of somehow of-of seeing things differently?

JE: 06:26
It is hard to differentiate seeing things differently because of their influence or just because of the time frame I was there, which was 67 to 70. So, it was a time of a lot of change at the school in (19)68; I was in student government, and so because of that, there was a lot of political activity and involvement. And at that time, of course, the anti-war movement was very strong, and that included both faculty and students, and kind of culminated-culminated in the in the closing of the university before my finals in 1970 because of the moratorium. So, I never took my finals my senior year, nor, I might add that anybody else. So.

IG: 07:18
So, I mean, but you were still given-

JE: 07:22
Everybody was given credit up until that point that-that they did not take the last few days of finals.

IG: 07:28
So, but-but everybody got their degrees.

JE: 07:30
Right. If you have to be in a course, you got to be without the final, etc.

IG: 07:34
So-so you know, opening your mind. So, what were the events? What, you know, are responsible for opening? I mean, it is, it is a gradual process. You mentioned that you were involved in the student government. You know, did you protest? Did you protest? Did you-you know go to Washington? Did you protest on campus? What-what-what was the nature of your activity?

JE: 08:03
A lot of there were several buses that were sent to the march on the Pentagon, but I did not echo. But there was also a large rally where Julian Bond and assorted people spoke at the courthouse in Binghamton, and I think there were several 1000 people probably that walked from campus to the to the Binghamton courthouse, and that would have been in the spring of 1970, I believe.

IG: 08:28
You know, it is incredible that your generation actually did make a change, and you must have felt that, you know, your actions would translate into some kind of difference, right?

JE: 08:46
There was a spirit of it was you know, a terrible time in some ways because your friends were in the service and getting killed, but there was also a feeling of optimism that things could be changed, and we took, you know, we took ourselves not only seriously, but way too seriously. After every Wednesday student government meeting, on Thursday morning, somebody would type up the minutes and mail them to Lyndon Johnson. And I always had the image in my mind of him calling an aide in and saying, "Were those minutes from Harpur College? I cannot wait to." So, we did not lack for a sense of purpose.

IG: 09:23
Yeah. So, what-what you know? You were protesting the Vietnam War. What were some of the other causes that you supported?

JE: 09:35
Well, at that time, especially in student government, also at the teen center and Upward Bound, Upward Bound at that time had a sister school in Jackson, Mississippi. So maybe 20 of the students that stayed on campus in the summer were from Jackson. So, there was a strong African American component in that program, and there was a lot of, as well as the war in Vietnam, there was a lot of civil rights protests, activity, and I think it was at that time maybe the beginning, or not the beginning, but the strengthening of the women's movement, and then also gay liberation, and they had a- the first big rally at SUNY in my senior year, and things were really changing in that regard as well. So, it was not, you know, it was a cauldron of different activities, and there was always something going on.

IG: 10:32
It is, it is tremendous because all of these movements, you know, had had consequences. Consequences, and they really changed society. And you were-they have completely, you know, changed society. I mean, it took a while for, you know, the gay rights movement to, you know, to be accepted, and now, you know, we have in New York City the gay parade, and which was so embraced and attended, and so. But-but you know how-how did you feel about all of this? How did you?

JE: 11:19
That was intoxicating. But looking back, though, I think what happened is we-if I use the word "we" just in my own discretion, I guess-but things change. We won the culture war, and a lot of things changed with sexual mores and with the people's opinion about drugs and you know more freedom for personal activities, but we lost the political war because, in one way, all these demonstrations, although they served a good cause and eventually ended the war, for example, but it also elected Richard Nixon, and it was not just in this country. In France too, there was a huge student movement in (19)68. And that ended up reelecting De Gaulle. So, a lot of times cultural victories were assured, but I think there was a reaction politically, and we can still see that that is evident in our time now.

IG: 12:20
You mean kind of-

JE: 12:22
Trump.

IG: 12:22
-a backlash to Obama's reforms and just this person.

JE: 12:27
Yeah.

IG: 12:27
And um-

JE: 12:29
Yeah, I think a lot of. I mean, this is getting off the subject of 1970, but I think that a lot of the support for Donald Trump comes from pent-up racism, and-and I think that might be a reaction to Obama being elected. And you know, I think the vested interests want to roll back health care and a lot of different things. But that is just my opinion.

IG: 12:57
Was there an anxiety that you felt that you and your friends felt about the draft?

JE: 13:05
Yeah, every day I would pick up a friend of mine, and we would drive to school together. And as 1970 was drawing full and before the draft lottery, I mean, people talked about the draft all the time. What they were going to do? Were they going to enlist in what they would consider to be a safer branch of the service? Were they going to go to Canada? Was there a deferment or a medical deferment they could get? And at that time, then the draft lottery came along. I believe it was in the fall of 1970, but I am not sure of that. And then some people, of course, came out on the losing end of that with a low number, and some people got a high number, and that resolved some of their anxieties. But it was a difficult time. I mean, all through (19)68, (19)69, (19)70, different high school friends of mine were killed in Vietnam, and that was always, you know, an albatross in the air. That is for sure.

IG: 14:00
Did these? Did you feel that you were kind of in a, in a privileged place-

JE: 14:07
Absolutely.

IG: 14:07
-by going to university? And did these high school friends also? Did they go to college?

JE: 14:15
Well, some of them some of them enlisted, [crosstalk] and then one of my better friends went to St. Bonaventure, but was asked to leave after a semester and was drafted and killed. But where I went to high school, a fair amount of people enlisted, so they bought the whole, you know, yeah-

IG: 14:34
They bought the

JE: 14:34
-country and flag thing. Yeah,

IG: 14:36
I know. I know, actually, one who enlisted of all the people that I spoke to, one enlisted.

JE: 14:46
Well, I think less of-

IG: 14:48
But in the merchant marines, so he was-

JE: 14:50
Safe. Yeah, that is considered a safe alternative. But I think too, it is, it is depending on where you live, because I know a lot of my classmates that went to the really good high schools in New York and whatever-I do not know if this is a fair thing to say-but it seemed like not as many of those kids got drafted, where more people in small towns and rural areas seemed to get the brunt of the draft, and people of color.

IG: 15:18
Yeah.

JE: 15:18
You know, so I do not know. But that is one thing. When I first you asked me about when I first went to Harpur, and I did feel very welcome there, but I was also a little intimidated with how much the kids that had gone to like the you know School of Arts or the Bronx School of Science or whatever, just how much they knew, and how they had a head start, you know, from but you know all things being equal, it worked out very well for me.

IG: 15:47
I do not know. Do you, in hindsight, see that maybe that was a little illusory, or did they?

JE: 15:54
No, they knew more. Yeah, they had a better education. Yeah, my first day at Harpur, for some reason, I was in the Psych 101 course, and by a miracle, it was a big thing. There were probably 300 kids in a lecture hall, and by some miracle, I was called on to read, and I came across the word P L A C E B O, and unfortunately, in my experience, I had never heard that word, so I pronounced it Plackaboo instead of placebo. And three years later, when I was a senior in college, people would still make comments about it-good-natured comments.

IG: 16:24
Yeah, I-I am very interested. Did you were your parents politically conservative or liberal?

JE: 16:35
They were Democrats. They were New Deal Democrats.

IG: 16:37
Okay, so it did not. It is, it is not like you went an about face from the politics of your home. Okay.

JE: 16:44
No.

IG: 16:44
All right. So that that is that is interesting.

JE: 16:48
We were talking earlier about the difference between cultural change and political change. The political thing was not a problem. The cultural thing, with like long hair and people smoking dope and things like that, was a much harder pill for my parents to swallow. Yeah, but-and but the political thing-they were they were liberal Democrats.

IG: 17:09
I see, I see. Was that unusual growing up in Binghamton? Where-

JE: 17:18
No.

IG: 17:19
-you know, you would assume no.

JE: 17:20
The city of Binghamton had at that time elected Democratic mayors. John Burns was a liberal Democrat who later was an aide to Robert Kennedy, and there was a strong sense of that. An allegiance, really, from I think from the New Deal. Binghamton was made up of a lot of immigrants who were factory workers, and they had they had unions that were strong for the Teamsters, not for the factory workers for EJ. And but it was it was there was a lot of liberalism, political liberalism, New Deal liberalism.

IG: 17:57
However, many of the immigrants that I know, a lot of the Slavic immigrants here, are quite conservative in their politics.

JE: 18:08
I think it has gotten more so, and I think I do not know.

IG: 18:11
You think you think it was different in your time?

JE: 18:13
Well, not- I mean, I do not think that they were red diaper babies or something, but I think that there was there was not polarization was just starting in (19)68, and I think the polarization now is worse because when I graduated from my school, if you did not want to go to college and you did not enlist in the service, you would get a job, and it was the kind of job that might not have been your dream job, but it was the kind of job you could support a family and buy a house and go on a vacation to the Jersey Shore or whatever, but those factory jobs now have really dried up. So, I think that economic sense of insecurity has drawn the line. I think that plays right into the Trump reaction.

IG: 18:54
Yeah, that is very interesting. Actually, the-the Slavic immigrants who came to Binghamton could not have been red diaper babies because they came at the beginning of the 20th century, you know, before the revolution, before the Russian Revolution. Anyway, it is all very interesting. So, how did you spend? I mean, you were in all these, you know, government and protest groups, but you know, how did you spend? How did you relax on campus? Was Harpur then a party school? What kind of music did you listen to?

JE: 19:32
It was not really a party school.

IG: 19:34
No, it was not.

JE: 19:35
I mean, you know, I like to think I had fun, but there was not like places where people would bar that people go and drink up that much, and then they opened when I was in student government the campus pub, and at that time the drinking age was still 18, so you know that became kind of a congregation for different things. We went to the movies a lot, I think, and I worked at the teen center. I mean, I worked two nights a week in my family business, and then I worked at the teen center three nights a week.

IG: 20:05
At the teen center?

JE: 20:06
Yeah, there was a teen center that a group called the Community Involvement Project, funded by the Broome Council of Churches, ran on Clinton Street.

IG: 20:17
And what was that?

JE: 20:18
It was a place just for looking back. It was odd because it was a place that was run by 19-year-olds for 17-year-olds, so there was not that much of an age difference. It was just some place they could go and-and hang out, get out of their houses, and we had a jukebox and pool table, and people would just congregate, you know. So, it was fun, and I think people enjoyed it.

IG: 20:42
What about women? You know, female students-not women, but female students. Did you feel that, you know, it was the beginning of the women's rights movement? I think in the early (19)70s, but in the late (19)60s, you know, what was, you know, what was your assessment of how women felt about them? I mean, probably women at Harpur College had greater ambitions, right? Everybody expected to have a career, but do you think that they were otherwise liberated, or did everybody expect to get married by a certain age?

JE: 21:29
I think both things are happening, and I think in the early days of women's liberation, when I was in college, it really worked. Even though it was women's liberation, it probably worked more to the advantage of the male students. But-but people, you know, I mean, I think that the women were academically driven, you know, it was a very competitive place, and I think everybody thought they would get a career. A lot of the people, though, it was a little different because people did not come out with huge student debt, so a lot of people would go into-

IG: 21:59
Graduate school.

JE: 22:00
Yeah, a lot of people went to graduate school or became teachers or social workers. A lot of the people I know seem to gravitate toward that, and they could do that because they were not saddled with enormous debt. You know, but a lot. Yeah, graduate school is a big draw too. Yeah, yeah. I am trying to think of my friends and.

IG: 22:20
So-so. Can I ask where did you meet your wife? Did you meet your wife on campus?

JE: 22:28
My wife and I were high school classmates.

IG: 22:30
Oh.

JE: 22:31
But we never probably spoke to each other. And then here is a little romantic interlude. Her best friend was a stewardess who died in a plane crash, and they were family friends with my parents, and I was a pallbearer. And Maureen was living in New York, and she came back for the funeral. And the night after the funeral was our first date.

IG: 22:51
When-when was the crash?

JE: 22:52
Gosh (19)73 maybe yeah (19)72 something. So, she was not somebody I dated when I was in college. I had a long-term girlfriend when I was in college, who moved to California and became a teacher.

IG: 22:59
So, what were your ambitions when you were a student? Did you did you foresee what you would do in the future? Did you think that you would just, you know, kind of very comfortably going to the family business, or what-what did you? What future did you envision?

JE: 23:25
Well, I think that people can think more than one thing at a time, and I think that at one level, you know, I was happy to help my parents and whatever. At another level, I was very politically involved, but that, even though I did not go into politics to run for office, but I have always been kind of politically active here, and we used to sit at a table in the student center for lunch, and of the 10 people that might have sat around that table, two of them became mayors of Binghamton.

IG: 23:55
Oh wow!

JE: 23:55
So that would be Juanita Crabb and Matt Ryan. So, there was always that too, and then I think I feel like I was involved in the community, and I was in like a youth. I ran the I was the president in the youth bureau for a while, through county government and an arts board in the schools, and so it was kind of a varied thing. I- if I- it is hard almost to look back and think, like what did I do? Did I have a plan that either did not happen or happened? Because you know, there is that great John Lennon line that "Life is what happens when you are making other plans."

IG: 24:32
Yes.

JE: 24:32
So here I am, 70 years old. You know, it is almost hard to look back at it that way.

IG: 24:38
It was a different time, I think, that you know, people might not have been so career focused.

JE: 24:44
Well, yeah, I think there was some of that, but there I had a lot of a lot of the people I knew at Harpur were very motivated to do something, you know, to and a lot of them did, you know. So-so I think that, and it was it was an ambitious place. I mean, it was also an extremely competitive school, you know. Like if you came back to a table in the lunchroom and somebody said, "What did you get in the political science session? said, "Oh, I got an A." Faces would kind of fall at the same time, you know. But so, but it was, you know, in generally in good spirits. But it was, you know, it was a different time.

IG: 25:21
Are you in touch with any of the- of your fellow students?

JE: 25:25
Yeah.

IG: 25:26
You are.

JE: 25:27
Yeah.

IG: 25:27
Yeah.

JE: 25:29
Yeah. Probably 20 people.

IG: 25:31
Oh.

JE: 25:32
That I knew then that I still am in contact with, and another person you might want to talk to is a really interesting person from our time was a woman named Carol Rosen who lives up on Seminary Avenue by the park, and she has had really interesting life experiences. She was also an Upward Bound counselor and an interesting person. You know, else was in our class. Did I mention Camille Paglia?

IG: 25:56
Yes. Yes, I-I think that a lot of people have spoken to her. A lot of people know of her. She is one of your most famous alumni.

JE: 26:08
Probably. Yeah.

IG: 26:11
So, but it seems like you know you were involved in both the college, the campus community, but also in the Binghamton community, which is quite, you know, unusual. I have met with a couple of other alumni who worked, you know, in the one doctor, for example, in I met who was involved in the psychiatric hospital that you had-I do not know-I forget what it was called. But for the most part, you know, people kind of stayed within the campus community. So, I was really-

JE: 26:53
I was from here, from here, and I think that made a difference. And then there was a conscious decision when I was on student government to try to outreach into the community a little bit, because we mentioned it a little bit in the beginning, but there was a real dividing line between the community and the school. I mean, a lot of people in the community looked at the campus as an outside presence from New York City that was stuck in the middle of our little ideal valley here, but there used to be a show called "Speak for Yourself, which was a talk radio show, and we would sit-sit in the student center and lunchtime or whatever, and listen to people call up and say how horrible we were.

IG: 27:35
How horrible who?

JE: 27:36
The students were- us. So, you know, there was a- so all those community outreach things. The purpose was to make people, and we would bring the kids in the suit from the teen center to the gym, and they would very kindly let us use the pool and the facilities. So, try and upward bound was the same thing to try to make it more integrated into the community, and I think it worked, and then the admissions changed. So now there, I think there are a lot more local students there.

IG: 28:06
Right.

JE: 28:07
We were kind of a rarity at that time.

IG: 28:10
I think I think that is wonderful because the way of, you know, changing change changings it is, it is, it is by integrating, you know a different a different population and integrating them into your life, into your into your world. So, give us a little sense. So, you graduated. Give us a little sense of the trajectory of your career. What did you do?

JE: 28:42
Well, when I first graduated that summer after graduation, I finished my second year at Upward Bound, and then I worked at our store and also went to graduate school part time, and I did that, I think-

IG: 28:57
In history?

JE: 28:58
-in history. I did that, I think for three semesters, and then honestly, it just got to be too much, and I had to either work or go to graduate school, and I decided to work, so that is how that happened.

IG: 29:12
And what did you do exactly for your family's business?

JE: 29:16
Well, I was a- furniture store, which just we closed in 2016, but so originally, I sold things as a salesman, and then eventually ended up running it. You know, after my father passed.

IG: 29:31
We are back with John Ellis.

JE: 29:37
And so, we were talking about when I went to work, and then eventually I ended up running the furniture store, and then we closed the store in 2016. I retired, and then at that point, I became a substitute teacher for the Binghamton school system, which I am still doing.

IG: 29:55
So, during this time, you know, you saw. Of course, the-the city change, and you we also did not talk about how you experienced the change of, you know, the campus from being a small liberal arts college to becoming

JE: 30:20
The university.

IG: 30:20
-the university that it has become now, but even in those few years, how did it, how did you perceive that change?

JE: 30:30
Well, when I go to campus, you know, for events now, for film society things, and sometimes for sports or whatever, but I love it there. But it does seem like it is a completely different school. I mean, it is just a lot bigger, and I am a lot older. I do not know that many students there. It seems like it is, and I am sure not just this university, but they have really gone into a focus on STEM, you know, science, technology, and I think that that is much different than when I was there. I mean, there was science courses and stuff. Although I tried never to walk past the science building, but I think the focus has changed that way. And it was just-I mean, you knew almost everybody. It was really small, and now it was really big. However, having said that, which might have a negative connotation, the growth of the university has been just wonderful for this town, so I hope I hope they have 100,000 students in 10 years. But so it was, it was different, but it was it was great then in one way, and it is great now in a completely different way. I think is it a more conservative place? Do you think? Of course, you do not. I know you were not here then, but at that time, it was like I do not know Madison, Wisconsin, into a lesser, maybe a much younger brother to Berkeley. But it was very liberal, and I do not know if that is the case now. Although I have a friend who is active in alumni things, and who also was an Upward Bound counselor and worked at the teen center, and he feels that if it has become-

IG: 32:07
More conservative.

JE: 32:09
No, I do not even know if conservative is the right word. I think maybe more just like career-oriented.

IG: 32:13
Exactly, that is perfect. That that is that that that is what I was going to say. It is much more career oriented. I think that, well, I cannot. You are getting also a lot more international students, you know, and this is something that you did not have right when you were attending Harpur College.

JE: 32:32
There were a handful, although interestingly enough, there were more African students when I started than there were African American students. So, it was, you know, it was a pretty white place. There were also some amount of students from Taiwan, and then maybe a mixture, but not very much, not very much at all. And then they had, you know, the program that I was not involved with, but the TAP program, and-and that-that really improved things, I think, at the university for the recruitment of minorities.

IG: 33:07
For-for the recruitment, we have- it is called something different. It is called EOP.

JE: 33:11
That is right. Yeah.

IG: 33:16
So, you know, what I always ask my interviewees what you know were the most what-what qualities would you say were most important for you to succeed? What-what you know, and especially those qualities that were encouraged by the university.

JE: 33:46
Curiosity. I think probably, you know, just to be not to just accept what you heard-a questioning, skeptical attitude, and the curiosity to want to learn what is going to happen and why- and I think that is probably, and the motive. I mean, there was- you were motivated by your fellow students because everybody was taking it seriously. Like I had friends that went to other schools, and the academics were downplayed, you know, but not-not at Harpur.

IG: 34:18
You lament the-the-the-the-the how should I put it the lesser importance given to the liberal arts. I have this sense.

JE: 34:32
Not so, yeah, maybe, but not so much just liberal arts, but I mean, and I am I could very well be wrong- but I just think, in general, the lack of political commitment. I mean, it is a big place now with a lot of students who are, you know, could be active, and it is also a lot of voters, you know. So, they could really change the outcome of elections in this area if they registered here while they were living here. And in a couple of campaigns, we did some canvassing. You know, I mean, it was okay, but it could be a lot better. But I do not know. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe there is a strong political commitment, but it does not seem so.

IG: 35:09
It- there is some, but there is nothing in-in comparison to your generation. I think that your generation is really distinct in its passion.

JE: 35:21
Well, do you think the draft had a lot to do with that?

IG: 35:23
Of course.

JE: 35:24
Yeah.

IG: 35:24
Of course.

JE: 35:25
That was a big motivator. Yeah.

IG: 35:26
A big motivator. But there are big motivators now, without the same passionate response, I think.

JE: 35:32
Yeah. Kids have terrible problems with student loans now. You know how much it cost me my last semester to go to Harpur College, except for my books, and I lived at home, so those are two things to exclude from it. It cost me $150. I mean, people really could work part-time jobs and pay for their education.

IG: 35:49
Right, right.

JE: 35:50
And know that, you know, Binghamton University is a very good value, but it is still a chunk of change for people.

IG: 35:58
Exactly, it is, it is, it is a lot more expensive now, although there are, you know, programs, of course, that make an education affordable. I mean, there, but you know, I of course I understand what you are saying. You know, do you think your generation's experience has something to say to the generation now? What could they learn from your- from the (19)60s, from the early (19)70s?

JE: 36:40
I do not know if it is a lesson, but I think it is. I think I wish I knew that change comes more slowly than you think, and when you make progress and take a couple steps forward, you have to be ready to take a couple steps backwards. Sometimes as a reaction, but that if you want to kind of change things, it is a lifetime commitment to activity. So, you know, we will see what happens in this election. It should be interesting. I do not know if there is anybody. I think President Obama motivated younger people, you know. Then I do not know that Hillary Clinton, despite her qualifications, which were she is probably one of the most qualified people ever to run for president. I do not know that she captivated people's enthusiasm as much. Maybe she did in some demographic circles. Maybe a lot of women were very motivated, but then again, there were a lot of women that were very reactionary to her to her campaign, so I do not know.

IG: 37:42
Yeah, it is hard to say. Do you have any concluding remarks? Anything? Any words of wisdom that you would like to impart to students who will be listening, as well as to your fellow alumni?

JE: 37:58
Well, I do not know about, but I think the one thing I would say that it was one of the best decisions I ever made. When in August after my freshman year, when school was almost starting, I drove out to the campus to talk to a fellow named Scanlon in the admissions office about transferring, and we talked. I did not have my transcripts or anything. He said, "Well, you know, it sounds good." And he said, "You know, you could probably transfer in January." And I must have had a long face because, oh my God, you want to transfer in September? And he worked to make that happen. And I think that my transferring to Harpur College was one of the best things that happened to me. And I love the school, and I love the friends I made there, and I love the professors, and so I have a lot of residuals feeling about it.

IG: 38:47
It is wonderful.

JE: 38:48
And I hope a lot of the other alumni that you are talking to feel the same way.

IG: 38:51
They do.

JE: 38:52
Good.

IG: 38:53
Thank you.

JE: 38:54
And it has been a pleasure. Thank you.

IG: 38:55
It has been a- likewise. It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

(End of Interview)

2019-11-08

Irene Gashurov

1970

John Ellis

John Ellis of Binghamton graduated from Harpur College in 1970 with a degree in history. While at Harpur, he participated in the Outward Bound program and later pursued graduate studies in political science. He went on to work for his family's longtime business, Ellis Furniture in Binghamton, eventually becoming president. After the store closed in 2016, John retired from the business and later began working as a substitute teacher in the Binghamton school system. He continues to live in Binghamton with his wife.

Audio

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