Interview with Sergey Gendelman

Interview with Sergey Gendelman

Gendelman, Sergey ; Gendelman, Allan

Gendelman, Sergey Peter.--Interviews; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Soviet Union—History; Communism and culture--Soviet Union; Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; City and town life--New York (State)--New York

Sergey Gendelman is a first generation immigrant in America. His roots are in Moscow, Russia. He received a degree in electronic engineering. He went on to further his education in the Soviet Union as a programmer. He immigrated to New York City in 1993 and he worked a few odd jobs until becoming a programmer once again. He continues to live in New York City area with his family.

2016-04-10

In Copyright

Sergey Gendelman.m4a

2016-04-13

Ukrainian Oral History Project

61:26

Ukrainian Oral History Project

Interview with: Sergey Gendelman

Interviewed by: Allan Gendelman

Transcriber: Allan Gendelman

Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:41am

Interview Setting: 2636 East 23rd Apt. #2 Brooklyn, NY 11235

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(Start of Interview)

Sergey Gendelman: I was born in 1959 in Moscow in Soviet Union.

Allan Gendelman: And uhh, (is it, is it) how was your childhood? Happy memories? Good memories? Or more of a negative?

SG: My childhood, it's mostly happy. Probably everybody's childhood—when you are a kid, it's, everything is good. You have parents, you have someplace to live, you have food. So you are happy. You have friends to play with. So, you are happy.

AG: So, tell me a little bit more about that. Where exactly did you live? Which neighborhood did you live in?

SG: Okay, it was Moscow. It's the capital of the Soviet Union. It was not downtown, but it's some sleepy area of Moscow.

AG: So, pretty quiet?

SG: Yeah, pretty quiet. It used to be pretty safe. So, we could walk around and play around by ourselves, without parents. Just with friends. We have yards around our houses. I mean, not houses, buildings. Most of us have buildings. So, we have yards. And we have place to play. So that's how we spent our childhood.

AG: It was more of an urban setting, right? More of a city, not a village, right?

SG: No, it's a real city. Moscow is a huge city. It's just one of the sleepy areas of Moscow.

AG: Sort of how Brooklyn is to Manhattan? We all live in New York, but Brooklyn is a little bit quieter.

SG: Yeah, kind of.

AG: So, tell me about the building you grew up in. How was that? Describe it to me physically. How big was it? How many floors? What did it look like?

SG: Okay, it was a five story brick building. No elevators. We lived on the third floor. We had two rooms. When we moved in—we got lucky, we moved in a separate apartment, because most of the people lived a few families together in the same apartment, just one room, and shared a kitchen, and bathroom, and other common places. So we got lucky when I was born, my family got a new apartment. It was two rooms, and it was six of us living in two rooms.

AG: So are you saying that at some point you did live in a communal area where you had to share the kitchen and other amenities?

SG: Actually for myself, personally, I had never lived with other people in the same apartment. So, as I said, I got lucky. We got, we got a new apartment when I was born. It was too many people for our old apartment. It’s, so—and six people in two rooms. I don't know how—by Americans’ measure, it’s probably still too much.

AG: It’s actually interesting that you said that. So you didn’t grow up in a communal setting, and you’re saying that’s how people usually lived?

SG: Yeah, I would say 50 to 60% of the people live together, a few families to the same apartment.

AG: So would you say you living in an apartment that you didn't have to share with other families in a non-communal setting—do you think that had any impact on you, growing up? Because I would think that if everyone else is growing up with other families, maybe the way they—not just the way they lived, but the way they grew up, the principles they grew up with could be different.

SG: It’s difficult to say, because I didn’t have, actually, other way to live, so— So it's the only way I— I don't know what to say. I never lived in other conditions, so it’s what it is.

AG: That’s true. Well, do you think you grew up a little bit differently than the people around you? The kids around you?

SG: I would say that my condition was a little bit better than some of my friends. I visit them, my friends, and we play together, and I saw how they lived. My condition, it was better. Yeah.

AG: Not just conditions, really. What I'm really asking is—so, you're my father, I've obviously known you growing up, and it seems apparent that—your friends and a lot of your family stayed in the Soviet Union and Russia, and you moved. And from what I know, this is something you always wanted to do growing up.

SG: No, it’s— At my childhood, when I was a teenager, I was thinking I am living in the best country in the world. So, I didn't have any problems when I was a teenager. It happened later, when I understand what's going around me in other countries. And it's—most of what we know is just a lie, and it's not true, and I'm pushed to do what I don't want to do. And my understanding, it happened, probably, when I was about 15, 16, when I got more information outside. It was difficult to get this information back then. I was trying to listen to some foreign radio. It was not allowed. First I started listening because of music—foreign music—I loved it and I love it now as well. And also I listened to the news and I started thinking, “Most of what our government said to us, it's not true.” It's how it started, my different view on my country. But when I was a child, I was thinking, “I'm living in the best country in the world.” It was my belief.

AG: You said you were pushed to do something you didn't want to do. What do you mean by that?

SG: Uhh, okay. When you are in school, you have to be in Pioneer Organization. It's like Young Communist [League], you have to do certain things—

AG: Like Boy Scouts?

SG: Yeah, like Boy Scouts. But it's not your choice. You have to do it. Otherwise you will be like—umm, umm.

AG: A traitor?

SG: Yeah, a traitor. So it's going to be much more difficult for you to be in school, to be in a community. Like all people. And you will not have any future, if you do not follow what everyone else is following.

AG: Your career choice, your school choice, the profession you chose to pursue in the Soviet Union: was that largely your choice, or do you feel like you were pushed to do that?

SG: No, it was my choice, but it was a choice with a lot of limitation for some reason. First limitation because I am a Jew. And not all colleges accepted Jew people. And if they accept, it was just for a limited percentage, very very limited percentage. So—and you have to be a Young Communist to have more possibility to get into college. So it was my choice, but it was limited choice.

AG: Why don't you tell me about what you did pursue? What did you actually study and what did you end up working as?

SG: I graduated as an engineer. Electronic engineer. So what I studied was a lot of math, a lot of physics. Automatization systems. What else—and of course I have to learn some Communist Party history, and that was probably the most important subject in college. There's a special test for that, and if you fail it, you will not get a diploma of engineer.

AG: And what did you go on to become? What was your job?

SG: My first job, I was a construction engineer, so I developed some schematics for automatization system for agriculture. So I was obligated to work three years for some company I was sent to work. So there were some choices, but not many, and I had to work for at least for three years. After three years, I had a choice to quit and find a new job. So I quit, and moved to a new job in the field.

AG: What was that field?

SG: It was—I just—I was, special tools for auto manufacturing. It was electronic devices that I had to adjust. It was like mini computers so it was more interesting for me. So it's like work in field. I was not sitting in one place, but I was moving to different companies to help them to adjust the tools.

AG: Was that the last job you held in the Soviet Union, or were there more?

SG: No, I had then—when computers started to introduce in our environment, I started learning programming. It's how I started programming. So my last job was programmer, so it helped that when I moved to the United States I had some background to start with.

AG: I want to come back to that, I want to ask you right now about your second job. You said you had to travel a lot for that job, right?

SG: Yeah, I travelled in Soviet Union—cities, towns, different places, yeah.

AG: So outside of Russia, right?

SG: Mmm…Outside of—

AG: —the Russian Federation.

SG: Outside of the Russian Federation, yeah. Yes.

AG: Was that common? Were people allowed to do that, or was that a special privilege that you got?

SG: No, you could travel anyplace in the Soviet Union. What wasn't allowed was to travel outside of the Soviet Union. It was a real privilege, so to leave the country for travel, for business, for whatever it is, so it’s— So you couldn't just go wherever you want to go outside the Soviet Union. You had to get an out visa, not a visa to get in the country, but a visa to get out of the Soviet Union. And it was really difficult. Very limited people could do it.

AG: Would you say it was feasible—would you say it was possible for people to travel the way you traveled for your work? Or were they too impoverished to do that? 

SG: Uhh—

AG: Because—

SG: No, people travel, but what we earned, it was, it wasn’t big money. It’s money to feed yourself and your family, and it’s what you mostly spend your money for. I said I lived in Moscow in Soviet Union, and Moscow is absolutely different than other Soviet Union territories, because it was difficult in Moscow to buy some foods, but there still—there are foods in stores in Moscow. But from other regions, people come to Moscow to buy something: clothes, food, something. It was much much more difficult to buy something outside of Moscow. I was lucky, again, to be living in Moscow, not other regions of Soviet Union. I got to see how other people lived. Sometimes people were happy when I could come and bring some food with me and share it with people. They were very happy.

AG: Tell me more about that. Did you learn anything while you travelled and you got to see how other people lived? Did that impact you in any other way?

SG: Yeah, I saw people live much, much worse than people in Moscow and it—sometimes it was real poverty. Because in Moscow, I didn't see actual poverty. Everything was—most of, 90% of the people was—equally, I would say, not poor, but they couldn't afford any car, they couldn't buy any apartment, any—that was just, government could just give it to people, and if you don't have a good apartment or any… Everyone had an apartment. It wasn't, maybe, good, it was maybe overcrowded, and people didn't have money to buy something new; and a car was…a real, real luxury, to use a car. But you had public transportation, it was pretty much good, and I didn’t think—I never thought that I’d need a car, because it was beyond my possibilities, beyond my actual wishes. It’s not—

AG: You're saying it was too luxurious?

SG: Yeah, yeah. It was too luxurious. Only people who were in crime could buy a car. Or some famous people—academics, famous artists, some—

AG: You're saying criminals could buy cars.

SG: And criminals, yeah. Criminals could always buy cars, yeah. Because they steal something from other people. Or people actually who work for, actually, for government, or for Communist Party. They had more possibilities to buy a car.

AG: What did you—so you’re saying you saw a lot of poverty when you left Moscow. Do you have any particular memories of your travels, any particular story you want to tell? Do you remember what kind of foods you ate, something like that? Something unique that you encountered that you didn't before?

SG: Some trips were very good. I would say Georgia, I remember, it was a very nice country, very nice people, very kind. And so, food was interesting, it was different. It was a nice experience to go to Tbilisi, it was the capital of Georgia. But some region was very poor and I couldn't buy anything in stores and I had to use some cafeteria in places I worked for, and it’s, it was, I couldn't eat what they fed me. So I was trying to do my job, instead of a week, let’s say for two days, and just leave, because it was not a pleasure to stay there, so I worked fifteen hours a day, just to leave the place.

AG: What did you eat in the cafeterias? Describe the food.

SG: Oh, ok. I don't know. It was some cutlets. And okay, if you don't have bread to, to not taste of the—or smell whatever you're eating—I don't know what it was, but it was something not edible. And always, when I went on a trip, I always had some food with me, so I could have my breakfast in the hotel room, so—and some late dinner in hotel again. So in some places, I just didn’t eat anything at all during the day—just worked for twelve, fifteen hours and ate just early morning using my own food I brought from Moscow, and late, late dinner. And just, my dream was just finish the job I had to do and just leave it, leave this town I stay in. 

AG: How long did you do that job for? How long did that last for?

SG: It's about six years, I’d say. Six or seven years. It was, it's not for the same company. I used to work for one company, for—then I moved to other company, this offers better conditions, but still the same kind of job. And then I move to some plant and I start actually to study programming, and that's how I start as a programmer. I start actually fixing computers first, learning the hardware part of the computers, and then study programming and converted to programmer.

AG: What made you do that job for six years? It sounds like you weren’t happy doing it—what was the motivation? Did you not have the opportunity to find another source of employment, or did you just not think about moving?

SG: No, I didn’t say I wasn't happy about the job. I was happy about the job; I liked it. But I wasn’t happy in some places I visited to do my job, just because of conditions I lived in. But the job itself, I liked it, it was good.

AG: Why don't you tell me about how you got started in programming? So you said you started studying hardware first, but then you moved on to learning programming?

SG: Yeah, it was—I was working for some company to—adjusting their tools for, uh—tools with controllers. So it was an electronic job. And then the company start—they created a department of, a computer department—it just started in Soviet Union. So—and I was, at the beginning, I actually helped the company to choose computers, to buy computers, to set it up, and fix if any problem happened. And parallel, I learned how to program, and I went to college again to get some programmer diploma, but it’s at the same time I was working for the company. So, and that's how I started programming. When I come to America, actually it’s not the same kind of programming I did in the Soviet Union, but—and I also went to school to learn something new, and—but it was much, much easier for me to be in the field, because I already had some basic knowledge and knew how to program.

AG: Do you remember exactly how you started programming? Did you just discover it? Did someone tell you about it? Do you remember the day you decided to become a programmer?

SG: No, it wasn't a day. It was, as I said, I just started to know something new, and it’s, I learned more and more and more, and I did some projects creating some software. And at the same time, I was responsible for supporting computer hardware, so I did both jobs, so that’s how my knowledge—that's how I gained more knowledge. So I create more—some, create more software.

AG: Was it someone in particular that opened you up to programming? No?

SG: Not really, as I remember, no. 

AG: You were just interested in it?

SG: It was interesting. It was something new to learn, so I started learning.

AG: You said you went to school, and you worked at the same time when you were learning programming. Was that challenging? Because I would imagine having a full time job and going to school is always challenging.

SG: Oh, I don't remember if it was challenging; it was interesting. It was about thirty years ago, so I don't remember. It was interesting. When you are interested in something, it's much easier to be successful in it.

AG: So you said you came to America and you eventually became a programmer, and you said it was a lot easier for you to do that because you were in the Soviet Union and you already had some sort of training, some sort of education, some sort of experience in the field. Did you come to the United States and right away become a programmer?

SG: It actually was my third job. I am not, um—when I was a student in United States, I did some jobs, you know, just temporary jobs, just to feed my family. And you just was born, and so—and so we didn't have much money, so I had to do some temporary job just for small money, but it was very helpful.

AG: Tell me about those jobs. Tell me about those temporary jobs.

SG: It's something, I distributed some advertising—

AG: —flyers?

SG: —Flyers, yeah. What else? I can't remember now. [Pause] Ok, it’s—

AG: You don't recall?

SG: I don’t recall, it was— It wasn't the happiest days of my life.

AG: No, you didn’t like it, so you—

SG: It was difficult and it was, I mean, not what I would like to do. It’s—it wasn't the reason I came to America, to do this kind of job. But it was a good experience, to—and it's what I had to do for my family. So it’s not good, it’s not bad, it’s what happened. I knew immigration is—when I moved from Soviet Union to America, I knew it was difficult to absorb a new style of life and, uh, to start speaking in English, it was most difficult, probably. To understand what people are saying, to speak myself, to explain what I would like to other people. So it was difficult times. But I did not regret I did this move.

AG: So you are saying the language barrier is what was the most difficult part—not understanding what people are saying. 

SG: Right.

AG: Was there anything else that was difficult? Was it culturally different? Were people different here than they were back where you were from, from the Soviet Union? Or are people just people everywhere?

SG: Most of the people are people, as you said, everywhere. And I had my close relative here, my uncle, who helped me a lot with—he explained to me a lot of things, what’s going on around me. And so for all my questions I could call him and ask, “What does it mean? What should I do with it?” and how to behave. So I was open for new relationships, for new people, for everything new, so—so, I was open for it, so I accepted it as it is.

AG: Was there any cultural shock? Anything in particular that surprised you?

SG: Usually when Soviet people come to America first, what they’re shocked about is when they go to stores and see how many foods in stores and how many clothes in store—it’s mostly what [made] people shocked. It didn’t shock me because I was prepared for this, because I had some information from people who lived here already, so—and I communicate with them before I left the Soviet Union—so I was prepared for that. It was interesting, but I wasn't shocked. What actually—I was not shocked, but very pleased with, is that people smile, on the streets, on transportation. Whatever you are going to, you see people smile to you. Not as in the Soviet Union. It's not in the behavior of Soviet people. Probably still they don't smile.

AG: Smiling. That was big for you?

SG: Yeah. Smiling was actually the most—most—[pause]

AG: —positive—

SG:  —positive, yeah, impression that I got.

AG: So was it your first time in America when you immigrated here? Did you immigrate straight here and this was the first time you’d ever been here, or had you been here previously?

SG: No, first I went here in 1990, just for travel. My uncle sent a special invitation to me, because otherwise I couldn't leave Soviet Union. It was already opened up by Gorbachev for people to go around the world, but it was still limited, so you had to get some special invitation from other country to be allowed to go. So my first experience, I went in 1990, I said. So I spent a month here in America, in New York. My cousin got me around to other countries—other cities—so I fell in love with America, so I decided, “so I am going to leave Soviet Union for United States.”

AG: Was it—that month you spent in America, was it like you expected it to be from the information that you got from the American radios in the Soviet Union, or were you surprised at the living conditions? Tell me. Tell me how it was for you.

SG: Surprised? Actually, I already had information, so I wasn't surprised too much, but I loved New York itself, I mean, Manhattan, how it’s—I was happy to see it with my own eyes, not on television, or some other image, some other sources. But I was—maybe I was shocked when I saw, first time, Manhattan, so I was—felt in love. I came as a tourist, so it's different when you live in a country and when you just travel. You see a different side of life. Everything was good. People were nice to me. It was a pleasure. I knew if I am going to move in permanently here, it will not be so easy to be part of this country, these people. So I knew it was challenging, but I was ready for that, for these difficulties. When I moved in permanently, I was open for all difficulties I met.

AG: Why do you say that you knew it was going to be challenging? What led you to believe it was going to be challenging?

SG: Because my English was very, very, very limited, and I knew to do some job I had to speak fluently—I had to understand people, what they’re saying, what I’m supposed to do, as my responsibility of some job. So I knew it's always difficult, because when you live in one country and everything is familiar to you, and people speak the same language and you knew all habits, everything around, everything, how it works… New country, absolutely new country with different culture, different people, language and everything—it's always difficult. But it's a good experience. But I'm happy you don't have to get through it because you were born here. It's your country—and it's my country too, but it’s your country from the beginning, and you don't have to get used to it.

AG: What kind of other difficulties did you face when you came here? Was poverty an issue?

SG: You mean in the United States?

AG: In the United States, yeah.

SG: Poverty…I mean, yeah. I had some money to pay for my rent and for food, but I learned how to do shopping so I knew where sales, I knew how to buy things so I could save a lot of money by doing it. I didn't have a lot of money to buy any extra, it was okay. I knew it was just temporary for some period of time. My goal is to find a job I would like and everything would be changed.

AG: When you came here, you grew up eating kotleta and borscht and all of that really Russian Soviet Union stuff. Is there anything that you came here and you were really—you really liked or you really didn't like, out of the foods?

SG: Actually, I like to try new food. First when I saw sushi, I couldn’t try it because I'd never eaten raw fish before and it was really strange for me. But my friends showed me how to eat it, so I tried and I didn’t like it, first time. In some period of time I tried it again, and it was a little bit better. And now I love it. I miss it if I don't have it for a couple of weeks. So I miss it. So, I love to have—to go to different restaurants to try new foods, and to different country and different style food. So—I’m open for that, I like it.

AG: Did you buy any frozen food, anything in the supermarkets? I mean, if I lived in a country where I was really limited in the cuisine I had and the kind of food that I had, and I came to a country where there’s all these different foods, I think I would just buy everything. I would just want to try all this strange new food. Is there anything—did you do that? Or did you only try to buy food that you knew or were familiar with?

SG: I buy mostly what I knew. I don't buy new food because I don't know how to cook it—maybe very rare, some… But, most of—to try new food, I just go to some specific restaurant: Turkish, Lebanon, or maybe Indian. So—and actually, with Indian food as well, when I first tried, first time trying Indian food, I couldn't eat it. It was very spicy, I couldn't eat it at all. But now, again, I get used to it, and time to time I like to have Indian food. But actually I'm still trying, as I start—when I came to this country and I tried to save money for shopping, I still do it. I try to save money and to buy most of the food on sale and save this money for, actually, what I really would like to do all my years when I was living in the Soviet Union, to travel to different countries. Because I was real, real, actually limited to see the world. Now I enjoy it, and so I’m trying to explore as many countries as I could.

AG: Yeah, we just came back from Italy, so it’s interesting that you said that. We do travel a lot. Do you think that the way you’re living your life now—what you just described, saving every penny that you can so you can get the things that you want—do you think that's something uniquely Russian? Do you think that’s something you do because you were taught to do it? To save every penny? Because from my experiences here in the US, people aren't so conscious about their spending, what they spend their money on, and they don't wait for sales. If they want food, they just go buy it.

SG: I don't know why I do it. Maybe it's in my nature to not overpay for something if I could actually save money. It's like for me, sometimes it's like sport, you know? If I see something I could buy for half of the price, it’s— So I'm looking for bargains. I prefer to visit two, three different supermarkets to buy food on sale and save money than just go in one place and buy whatever I see. I don't know. Maybe it's in my nature. Not because I’m from Soviet Union, because I know other Russian people, and they actually don't save money for food and buy whatever they want to.

AG: I guess it depends from person to person.

SG: Yeah, I think so.

AG: So, you came here. You handed out flyers. You didn't live in the best conditions. What was the first apartment that you lived in? Or the first place that you lived in?

SG: It was an interesting experience. We just start looking, and first we stay with our relatives for a couple of weeks and start looking for apartments, and what we saw, it was killing us. It was dirty, it was with cockroaches and with—it was something with awful smell. Actually, it’s because we had little money to spend, we were looking for very, very cheap apartments, so— My wife was crying and she said, "Okay, I would like to go back. I don't want to live in those apartments." Because in Moscow, it was a small apartment, but it was clean—it belongs to us so we care about that and it was clean, and okay, it smelled good— Okay, but when we saw an apartment which was just renovated, and that it was clean and no smell, and so we loved—it was small, it just was studio with kitchen. So we loved it and we moved in—it was just two of us, it was more than enough for two of us. It was in the Bay Ridge area, a good safe area in 1993 when we moved to America. So that's how we started. But then, when you were born, we had to move to a new apartment, a little bit bigger. But I already worked at that time, so we could afford it. It wasn’t a good apartment. It was two bedrooms, a two bedroom apartment, but it was small and not as good. So in a few years, I keep working, and we moved again to a much better apartment, still in Bay Ridge.

AG: And you liked that apartment?

SG: Yeah, we liked that apartment. And the best part of that was the view. It was a view on Downtown and Midtown Manhattan, Statue of Liberty and Hudson River, and the view was just amazing. It was so I could look at it every day for a long time, and it always was different because of how the sun is—

AG: —shining—

SG: —shining through, yeah, and nighttime, so it was very good. And I was—so enjoyed it, probably, until 9/11. Because when I saw everything that happened on 9/11, it actually really changed me. Because I had been working very, very close to the Twin buildings. I saw it just from a very, very close distance, how it happened, how the building collapsed, how the planes hit the buildings. It was a nightmare.

AG: You worked close by there?

SG: Yeah. Not quite about a mile, I would say less than half a mile from the Twin buildings.

AG: Would you say that changed your view of America in any way?

SG: Not America itself, but something really changed. It was like, you know, you lived in some sunny conditions, and then clouds came. It's like everything is the same, but something is different, and you couldn't explain, actually, what’s changed, but it was.

AG: Did it impact your view of how safe you felt in America? Did you feel safer before 9/11, or the same? Do you still feel safe? Do you feel safe?

SG: Pretty much, I do feel safe, but before 9/11 I didn't think about safety, actually. The Bay Ridge area was very safe, and so we could walk around at midnight without, actually, to be afraid of people around us. Because in—when I left Russia, when I left Moscow, it was the 90s and it was very, very dangerous there, so—it was very dangerous just to walk around. If you don't have to go out, it's better to not go out. But when I came to America, it was very—I was so impressed, I don’t feel any dangers around me.

AG: Did you—so you had this really safe view of America, and you could go out and it was much safer in your eyes than it was in Russia when you left. Did you think about going back to Russia to live there because—

SG: No, never. 

AG: Never?

SG: Never again.

AG: You didn’t feel like the dangers of another terrorist attack warranted going back?

SG: Whatever could happen, now it's my country. Whatever will happen, now I will be part of that. So I'm not thinking about to go back, whatever it is.

AG: So would you say you identify as an American now? If someone asked you what you were, would you say you’re an American, or—

SG: Definitely.

AG: You wouldn't say you were a Russian?

SG: Nope. 

AG: Interesting.

SG: My roots are Russian. I still speak in Russian, that’s…[inaudible]

AG: What do you think it means to be an American? What is an American? 

SG: I don't know. 

AG: What does it mean to you?

SG: I just live in a great country. It doesn't mean I like everything that is happening to our country, and it could be much better, and it's probably getting worse than it used to be in the 90s. But I believe in America and I believe we could—but I believe we could do better.

AG: Do you think it's worse than when you came here?

SG: What do you mean?

AG: You said you think it's not as good as in the 90s, right?

SG: Yeah, and because of, it's because of economy, because of, actually—probably it started from 9/11. It's how the country started changing, and—we are not so open as we used to be, and that's what I liked about America.

AG: What do you mean by open?

SG: Open to—ok, open to do things we would like to do. We are not limited to anything by, but by law only. And—so I understand, some things are done for our safety, and I understand it, and I agree with it. But it’s—it is different now, than it used to be. So when you go somewhere, and now when you—we just came from Italy, and when you go to airport, it’s a few checkpoints when security screens you. I remember days when we just go to the airport and sit on the plane and go to another country without any screening. As I said, I agree it needs to be done and it's for our safety, but it’s different.

AG: So you're saying when you went to the airport before 9/11, there wasn't any security? There was no—?

SG: There was security, but they didn’t check actually your luggage. They didn’t check you, so you just pass by on your flight.

AG: Really?

SG: Yep.

AG: Do you feel confident in America’s future. Do you feel like I will have as future—a good as life as you did? As better, or worse?

SG: I don't know. It looks to me that the labor market is much worse than it used to be in the 90s. And I see a lot of young people who graduated in colleges, they couldn't find a job. But I believe America could change something about that. To create more workplaces—so for your future, as well.

AG: Yeah, a lot of people in my school, in my college, they are very cynical about their futures, and from what we talk about in class, a lot of them feel like their futures won't be as good as their parents’. Granted, their parents, a lot of them weren’t immigrants like mine, so they didn't have to go through as rough conditions, but they don't seem as hopeful for the future as perhaps I do, or you do. Do you think I'll earn as much as you, or have as good a job as you? Do you feel confident in that?

SG: Not so comfortable. Not so confident. But I still believe in America. America could do something about that. I believe in it.

AG: Do you think hard work—if you work hard in America, you will be successful here? That you will achieve your dreams here?

SG: Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah. If you work hard, if you have knowledge, if you have ambitions. You could do whatever you want to do, you can achieve whatever you want to achieve.

AG: Where do you think that attitude comes from? Do you think—we were taught growing up that that’s the American dream, an American idea. But I seem to think that that’s a Russian ideal. That if you work hard, you will succeed. That you have to work hard, that you have to, that you really have to try. You really have to hustle, that you really need to bust your ass to do everything you can and go to sleep tired.

SG: I don't think it's a Russian idea. In Russia, you could work hard and you could be very smart, but to be successful, first of all, you have to have connections. Only connections could help you with some goals, not yourself. There are some exceptions, but I mean for a majority of people, it's just by connections, not by your talent. And again, in Russia, back in my time, if you’re Jewish, you are very limited in the position you could obtain, so… A lot of limitation for Jewish people. At least used to be.

AG: From what I know, maybe not you, maybe not Mom, but my grandparents—your parents—had to do two or three jobs on the side just to earn money. Right?

SG: Most of the people just work one job. We didn't pay for much, we didn't have mortgages, so we don’t have to pay. We didn’t have to pay for mortgages, just for food. Just save some money for vacation. It was actually the purpose to earn money. Salary wasn't big, but you didn't have to pay for education, you didn't have to pay for medical service. Medical service wasn't good, but you didn't have any choice. And probably you—you didn't have to pay for that, but you had to give some gifts, something meaningful to get good medical service. And sometimes you had to bribe to get into college as well.

AG: To give bribes, rights?

SG: Yeah.

AG: You'd say you are a hard worker. You and Mom work hard, right?

SG: I think so.

AG: Why do you think you do it? What makes you work hard?

SG: First, I like my job. And actually, I have to earn money. I don’t know, if I had enough money for all my needs, maybe I would afford early retirement and travel, and go spend my life, maybe more interesting than just work, sometimes much more than eight hours. But I have to earn money to pay my mortgage. It’s just twenty-six years left to pay off my mortgage. I hope I will still be alive at that time. So I had to do it. And I like to do it. Sometimes it’s difficult, and it’s a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. But it’s—what is it? What it is.

AG: So you do it for your family? You do it so that you can afford the things you want in life?

SG: It's for my family, to be able to travel, to be able to pay for your education. For other things. To go to restaurants sometimes. To afford things I would like to afford.

AG: I think we could do this for many, many days, weeks. It's been an hour, and I did learn a lot about your life. Is there anything else you’d like to tell me? Anything in particular about your experiences in life or here? Or anything you’d like to share with people? Maybe some hopeful message?

SG: I don't know, actually.

AG: Any advice you would give for people to be successful?

SG: Be a good student. Learn a lot. Be a hard worker. To be ambitious. And you could achieve whatever you would like to.

AG: Thank you very much, Sergey Gendelman. That was a great interview. Thank you for that.

SG: You’re welcome.

(End of Interview)

2016-04-10

Allan Gendelman

Sergey Gendelman

Sergey Gendelman is a first generation immigrant in America. His roots are in Moscow, Russia. He received a degree in electronic engineering. He went on to further his education in the Soviet Union as a programmer. He immigrated to New York City in 1993 and he worked a few odd jobs until becoming a programmer once again. He continues to live in New York City area with his family.

61:26 minutes

English

Binghamton University

audio/mp4

Sound

Ukrainian Oral History Project

audio

Gendelman, Sergey Peter.--Interviews; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Soviet Union—History; Communism and culture--Soviet Union; Russian; Jews; Migrations; Ethnic identity; City and town life--New York (State)--New York

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Interviews; Russians; Immigrants; Soviet Union