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Interview with Barry Polsky
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Contributor
Polsky, Barry ; Gashurov, Irene
Description
Barry graduated with a degree in Psychology from Harpur. His career spanned different professions. He worked as researcher for a pharmaceutical firm; as a software engineer after earning a graduate degree in computer science. He drove a cab and before retirement worked as a high school math teacher.
Date
2018-01-03
Rights
In Copyright
Date Modified
2018-01-03
Is Part Of
Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni
Extent
64:47 minutes
Transcription
Alumni Interviews
Interview with: Barry Polsky
Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov
Transcriber: Oral History Lab
Date of interview: 3 January 2018
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(Start of Interview)
BP: 00:03
Travel will be difficult.
IG: 00:04
Travel will be difficult tomorrow. It is the snow is starting at four o'clock in the morning.
BP: 00:10
Right. Four or five.
IG: 00:11
Four or five. We will figure it out. So, for the record, please tell us your name, your birth date and where we are.
BP: 00:35
My name is Barry Polsky. I was born on November 25, 1946 and we are in Somerville, Massachusetts.
IG: 00:48
Where did you grow up?
BP: 00:50
I grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
IG: 00:53
And tell us a little bit about your upbringing and what was the occupation of your parents?
BP: 01:04
Yeah, so my parents were both immigrants from the Soviet Union. They both came here in the 1920s separately, I was amazed when I found out, when I was young that they met here and they were both from the Soviet Union. And my- neither of them had much education. My father eventually became the manager of what we used to call an appetizing store, which is a little grocery store that sells smoked fish like lox and herring and kippered salmon. And he had these big jars of candy and big blocks of halva and cheese. It was a wonderful store. It was on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and he managed the store for 25 years, and when he was 60, he bought the store from the owner, and he owned it for six years, until he passed away. My mother was a housewife when we were out of the house. I think my mother got some jobs here and there, but basically, she was a housewife and raised us, and we were, I would say, lower middle class.
IG: 02:22
Where did you go to high school?
BP: 02:23
Midwood High School in Flatbush.
IG: 02:26
I know where that is. Did your parents encourage your pursuing a college degree?
BP: 02:36
It was mandatory.
IG: 02:38
Mandatory.
BP: 02:39
Yes. It was just assumed. Unlike my two older sisters, who could have done whatever they wanted, my parents did not push them in any direction. I was assumed. It was assumed I would go to college, and in fact, later on, when I left graduate school, my father said, I will be disappointed if you do not get a PhD.
IG: 03:01
So, is this what you did?
BP: 03:03
Yes, I went to University of Rochester for graduate school in brain research, psychology and brain research.
IG: 03:11
Oh, my goodness.
BP: 03:12
And I got a master's degree. And then at some point, I decided that graduate school was taking too much out of my personal life to continue, and so I just left after a master's degree. And actually, you may not, you probably do not know this, I came back to Binghamton, and I was a laboratory teaching assistant in psychology for a year and a half at Binghamton.
IG: 03:41
So, what was your occupation, throughout the years?
BP: 03:46
I have had many careers, several careers. So, after I was the teaching assistant at Binghamton for a year and a half, I went back to New York City, and I was briefly a programmer, computer programmer for AT&T.
IG: 03:49
Tell us about it. What years were the-
BP: 04:05
1970 I believe. And then in (19)71 I got a job as a research assistant at Hoffmann-La Roche [F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd], the big pharmaceutical company. And I worked there as a research assistant for eight years, laboratory research. Then I went to Israel for 10 weeks, and when I got back to New York, yeah, when I got back to New York, I realized I just did not like New York City anymore, and I knew some people in Boston, and I just up and went to Boston. I decided I want to live in Boston, and I have never regretted it. I love it here. And I kind of bounced around. Did not quite know what I wanted to do. I was a bus boy. I was the- I did various things. And then I settled into being a full time Boston cab driver for about five years. And when I was approaching 40, I decided that I needed a real career, and I read a book called 90 jobs for the (19)90s, and it said that computer programmers would be in great demand. So, I went back to computer programming. I went to Harvard Extension School and got a computer science degree, and then I worked as a computer programmer for about 15 years.
IG: 05:36
Can I ask what area I mean, did your programming in-in-in the (19)70s, in the early (19)70s, [crosstalk] inform your, did you do-
BP: 05:47
I did cobalt programming in the (19)70, business programming, cobalt program, right in graduate school, in the program at Harvard Extension, I learned C, not C plus-plus just C.
IG: 06:01
Just C.
BP: 06:03
And I got a job with a firm in Rhode Island doing kind of customer service and a little programming. So, what was their niche?
IG: 06:10
I see.
BP: 06:10
I did that for about a year and a half, and then I was offered a job up here in Cambridge with a company called Computer Sports Systems. And they were very interesting company. They had an interesting niche. They invented automatic scoring for bowling alleys. If you go bowling-
IG: 06:34
Yeah.
BP: 06:34
You do not have to score by hand.
IG: 06:36
Oh!
BP: 06:37
There is a machine that detects the number of pins you knock down, and it projects your score overhead, and that is on all with software. And this company invented that software that did the automatic.
IG: 06:50
So, what was your role in [crosstalk] helped design.
BP: 06:53
I helped design and maintain those programs.
IG: 06:56
Oh! That is very interesting. Who were some of your clients?
BP: 07:03
Oh, well, we worked with Brunswick, which was the main, one of the main manufacturers of bowling equipment. I think I heard of- Yeah, and actually bowling alleys, big bowling alleys, would be our clients. And after a while, there was not a lot of business anymore for that. So, they tried a big project to get the company going again. The project petered out. And when that project failed, they laid off just every programmer, except one, and I was laid off. And-
IG: 07:40
And what year was this?
BP: 07:41
19- Let us see, I think 2003,2003 or (20)04, and I did not have another an appetite to pound the pavement looking for another job where I looked at a computer screen all day.
IG: 08:01
Right.
BP: 08:02
And so, I wanted more interaction. So, after doing a couple of stops and starts, I decided to become a teacher. And eventually I landed a job as a high school math teacher at Everett High School, which is a suburb of Boston.
IG: 08:19
Did you go through a special program?
BP: 08:21
I tried to get into a couple of training programs, and I could not get in. But in one of the interviewers said, you know, you have an interesting resume, just send your resume out to people; do not go to a training program. So, I- the Boston Globe had an ad for Everett High School wanting math teachers. I sent in my resume, and two weeks before the years begin, they dropped me in for an interview, and they hired me the next day.
IG: 08:47
Oh, wonderful.
BP: 08:48
So, I sort of started right off the street, and I worked there for 10 years.
IG: 08:55
Did you enjoy the experience? I did. I thought was very rewarding. It was stressful, and it was the hardest job that I have ever had, especially the first year, because I was checking homework one day, and I, you know, somebody was not getting it. And I said, "Well, did you read the book?" And he said, "I cannot learn from the book." So, I decided the book was not good enough, and I wrote my own book of notes for all the lessons that year that I distributed to the students. So that I was working, you asked my wife I was working day and night, but I got it done, and later on, it became less and less work as I had my lessons planned. Lesson plans- what grades did you teach?
BP: 09:40
Pre-calculus, juniors and seniors.
IG: 09:45
And what kind of neighborhood is Everett?
BP: 09:47
Very diverse.
IG: 09:49
Very diverse.
BP: 09:50
Working class.
IG: 09:51
Working class.
BP: 09:51
Yeah. Um, basically working class and diverse in terms of their Haitians and Brazilians, and Central Americans and African Americans, and, you know, probably maybe 50 to 60 percent white, and then the rest very diverse. And it was very rewarding, but toward the end of my 10 years, it became more and more stressful, and I think the main reason was cell phones in the classroom.
IG: 10:24
Was what?
BP: 10:24
Cell phone.
IG: 10:25
Oh, yes.
BP: 10:27
You just could not get the students away from their cell phones. And I would have a rule.
IG: 10:33
Right.
BP: 10:33
But it would be very hard to enforce it, because if they start, if they finished their work, I would- they would- cell phones would come out. I would say, no cell phones. They would say, I finished my work.
IG: 10:43
Right.
BP: 10:43
It was very hard to control.
IG: 10:45
Yeah.
BP: 10:46
So, I was- when I retired after 10 years, I had a small pension.
IG: 10:50
When-when- so when did you retire?
BP: 10:51
Okay. Yeah. So, I was hired in 2006 and I worked until, I guess, June of 2016.
IG: 11:01
So that is very recent.
BP: 11:03
Yeah, I am retired about a year and a half, almost two years.
IG: 11:06
So how are you enjoying retirement?
BP: 11:10
I love it.
IG: 11:11
You love it.
BP: 11:12
I love it. Mainly. One of the main reasons I love it is that I found the perfect retirement job.
IG: 11:19
Which- what is- and what is that?
BP: 11:22
I am a big baseball fan and I am a Big Red Sox fan.
IG: 11:26
Yeah.
BP: 11:27
I have become a tour guide at Fenway Park.
IG: 11:30
Oh, wow.
BP: 11:32
Fenway Park gives tours to thousands of people a year.
IG: 11:36
How wonderful.
BP: 11:37
And I am one of the tour guides there.
IG: 11:42
That is wonderful. That is wonderful that you found it.
BP: 11:45
And then to make some extra money, I drive Uber.
IG: 11:48
Oh, good for you.
BP: 11:50
So, I am enjoying retirement.
IG: 11:52
Yeah.
BP: 11:52
Not quite as much money as I was making when I finished teaching.
IG: 11:56
Yeah, you have a beautiful home. You live in a lovely area.
BP: 12:00
Well, I lucked out in many ways. When I married Randy, she had a first husband, and she was able to buy this home in the 1980s when it was affordable.
IG: 12:11
Right.
BP: 12:11
So.
IG: 12:12
Where did you meet your wife?
BP: 12:15
We were acquaintances for a number of years in a Jewish congregation of the persuasion, called Jewish renewal. It is kind of like an alternative.
IG: 12:25
Where is it based?
BP: 12:27
When we met, it was based in Watertown, but we meet in rented spaces. Currently, we are based in Waltham.
IG: 12:35
I know.
BP: 12:38
And we were acquaintances for quite a while.
IG: 12:40
Yeah.
BP: 12:40
And in 2004 Randy and another friend, Mary were going to New Hampshire to canvas for John Kerry-
IG: 12:49
Yeah.
BP: 12:50
-and they asked me to come along if I wanted to come along. And I did. And at one point, Mary took a walk, and Randy and I were left in a diner talking, and we hit it off and started dating. And-
IG: 13:02
That is wonderful. So, it is a relatively recent marriage.
BP: 13:07
That is right, we were married. Actually, we were together for eight years before we got married. Oh, so we were only got married a little over three years ago-
IG: 13:17
Only three.
BP: 13:18
-and it was my first marriage at the age of 67.
IG: 13:21
It is what?
BP: 13:21
My first marriage at the age of 67.
IG: 13:26
Bless your heart.
BP: 13:27
Thank you.
IG: 13:27
It is wonderful.
BP: 13:28
Thank you. I am very happy.
IG: 13:32
Wonderful. That is, that is really it. It warms my heart. So let us return a little less backtrack and return to your college days.
BP: 13:47
Yes.
IG: 13:47
So, I mean, do you still keep in touch with your classmates from Binghamton?
BP: 13:54
There is one small group of classmates that I have always kept in touch with.
IG: 13:58
Right.
BP: 14:02
We were in the same dorm. We were in Whitney together.
IG: 14:06
Right.
BP: 14:07
And there were like three or four couples that we keep in touch-
IG: 14:20
Yeah.
BP: 14:20
Since then, it is not a wide range of students-
IG: 14:25
Not a wide range [crosstalk]
BP: 14:26
But-
IG: 14:26
Do you ever get together?
BP: 14:28
Um, maybe on big reunions, like I get together with them on big reunions. I think I saw them on the 50th and the 40th reunion. The union now passed its 50th.
IG: 14:41
Yeah, I remember you at the reunion.
BP: 14:44
Yeah.
IG: 14:45
On campus.
BP: 14:46
Yeah. But they get, generally get together on New Year's Eve in Pennsylvania, at somebody's house. But I usually do not make that. But we said, you know, holiday- [crosstalk]
IG: 15:00
-together with the Strauss's?
BP: 15:01
Yes.
IG: 15:02
We interview them.
BP: 15:04
Yes-yes, wonderful people.
IG: 15:06
Because I- they mentioned a New Year's tradition in Pennsylvania.
BP: 15:12
Right.
IG: 15:12
That is, that is why I thought, Okay, so tell me about the campus when you first arrived. What was it like?
BP: 15:24
Well, I love say, I always tell people when I got there, it was Harpur College.
IG: 15:31
Yeah.
BP: 15:32
And it had 1600 students. When I left, it was State University of New York at Binghamton, and it had 6000 students. There was mud and construction everywhere all during those four years. Tt was really an explosion.
IG: 15:49
So, it really went through not even an evolution, but a revolution-
BP: 15:54
Yes.
IG: 15:54
-for four years that you were there?
BP: 15:56
Right.
IG: 15:57
What did you study at Binghamton?
BP: 16:00
I went in thinking I wanted to be a math major.
IG: 16:03
Right.
BP: 16:04
But I took calculus, AP calculus in high school, so I did not take- have to take math the first freshman year. And during the freshman and sophomore year, I kind of had an intellectual awakening, and I decided that people were the most interesting things to study. So, I majored in psychology. Now I expected to study Freud and abnormal psychology and things like that, but the program at Binghamton was primarily experimental psychology, so I studied rats.
IG: 16:11
Right. But that really-
BP: 16:39
It was okay.
IG: 16:41
Awakened your interest in the in the dis, in the subject.
BP: 16:45
That is right.
IG: 16:46
Who were some of the- do you remember some of the names of the faculty-
BP: 16:52
Oh, that [crosstalk]
IG: 16:54
-awakened this interest in you?
BP: 16:55
Yeah. Well, my friend- my first psychology teacher, was Andrew Strouthes. Um, but I had been awakened even before I started taking psychology.
IG: 17:10
By whom? By what?
BP: 17:12
Well, I know that during the summer before my sophomore year, I read William James' psychology. I would get a book on psychology, and this one was called Psychology, so I decided to read it. And I was reading some philosophy. I took philosophy in my sophomore year, and loved it, and I decided I wanted to be a therapist. So, this kind of psychology that I was studying as a sophomore was not really what I was expecting.
IG: 17:46
Yeah.
BP: 17:46
But I still liked it. Then at some point around my junior year, when I- during my-my sophomore year, things got difficult emotionally for me. I struggled with depression some, and I- at one point decided that I had too many of my own problems that I could not figure out to help somebody else with their problems. So, I went from wanting to be a therapist to wanting to do brain research [crosstalk]
IG: 18:23
That is pretty self-aware, I would say, for a young person.
BP: 18:32
Mm-Hmm.
IG: 18:32
So, did you feel supported by the community at Binghamton during the harder times? Or did you have friends that you could reach out to?
BP: 18:45
Um, I was not good at reaching out.
IG: 18:48
No.
BP: 18:49
I was not good at getting support. I think I pretty much carried things on my own. Yeah.
IG: 18:59
So, do you see yourself during those years as a loner, or were you, you know, in a group of friends? And...
BP: 19:11
I would say I had friends; I had a small group of friends.
IG: 19:17
And-
BP: 19:18
And I was- there was something that was not quite a fraternity. It was more like a social club. It was called STO.
IG: 19:26
what was that? Tell us about that?
BP: 19:32
I think there were fraternities, and this was like a fraternity light.
IG: 19:37
Yeah.
BP: 19:39
And it was a little easier to get into a little less prestigious, a little less, you know, rules, and I liked hanging out with those folks.
IG: 19:52
So, what would you do? Would you just, you know, hang out.
BP: 19:57
Wow. Uh, I do not really remember too much else about that. Just go meetings, yeah, just meetings and talk.
IG: 20:08
You had meetings and talks.
BP: 20:09
Right. With uh, my- this girl, close group of friends that I had-
IG: 20:13
Yeah.
BP: 20:15
I remember going out to Sharkies and having speedies.
IG: 20:19
In town?
BP: 20:20
In town.
IG: 20:20
In town. And did you have a car? Did you- did somebody have a car?
BP: 20:26
Somebody must have had a car.
IG: 20:27
Somebody must have had a car.
BP: 20:28
Yeah, I did not have a car in college.
IG: 20:30
Yeah.
BP: 20:30
So, somebody must have had a car.
IG: 20:34
You know so-so what were what was recreational? What was recreation for you, outside of Sharkies and the fraternity, or were you studying all the time?
BP: 20:48
I was studying a lot.
IG: 20:49
You were studying a lot.
BP: 20:54
One thing that comes to mind when you say what was recreation is the first time that I was introduced to smoking grass. [laughs] Now you have to know that Binghamton was kind of like a-
IG: 21:09
Party school? No?
BP: 21:11
No, it was a druggie school [crosstalk] as its reputation was as a druggie school.
IG: 21:17
That is interesting.
BP: 21:18
And a lot of us had our first exposure to grass and acid at Binghamton.
IG: 21:25
Was that kind of inspired by Timothy Leary?
BP: 21:30
Yes-yes.
IG: 21:30
And that was connected to your interest in psychology, right?
BP: 21:35
Probably, I mean, it was more of interest in just having- wanting more experiences, wanting different experiences. I did have- I was not an acid head. I had one trip that was pretty intense, and one time when I took like a half a dose that did not do very much.
IG: 21:59
Excuse me.
BP: 22:00
I took like, a half a dose of acid.
IG: 22:02
Yeah.
BP: 22:03
And it did not do very much.
IG: 22:04
Yeah.
BP: 22:05
So, I would say I had one experience.
IG: 22:09
And what was the experience like, if you do not mind sharing.
BP: 22:12
Not at all. It was pretty-pretty interesting. It was, it was, it was good. At one point, I just felt like, this is great. I just felt so good. And colors were very-very vibrant. And I remember-
IG: 22:30
Were you sitting, standing, walking? Do- Where were you walking?
BP: 22:32
Both I would, I would mostly walking. I remember- I remember going into a room.
IG: 22:40
In resi- in their residence?
BP: 22:41
In the dorm, right. With a rug kind of looking like this.
IG: 22:45
Yeah.
BP: 22:46
And the pattern of the rug looked like it would rai- it raised up and started swirling around. [laughs] It was a psychedelic experience. But some of my insecurities were exacerbated, also. I remember walking during the trip, walking with a friend, and saying to him, you know, I am afraid. I am really boring you. So that was [crosstalk]
IG: 23:13
Yeah, that is interesting. I never heard that. So, in the aftermath, what do you think of this experience? I mean-
BP: 23:25
I am glad I had-
IG: 23:26
Yeah.
BP: 23:27
I am glad I had it. I do not think it did any damage.
IG: 23:29
No.
BP: 23:29
I did not do it enough to really do any damage. And I smoked several times, listened to music, but I never really developed a desire to make it a lifestyle or do it a lot, and now, as an adult, the few times that I have smoked with friends over the years, I do not like the way it makes me feel at all, so I do not do it. I am trying to remember whether we used to go to basketball games. We might have gone to basketball games.
IG: 24:02
So-so, you would get, you know, I mean, you would get together with your friends. Do you remember some of the conversations? Would you talk about politics, the war? You know, the war must have been present on everyone's mind.
BP: 24:17
The war was a big thing. The war was a big thing. I remember either as a sophomore, as a junior, reading a book about the history of the War of Vietnam, and just deciding right then and there that it was unjust. It was a really terrible war. And I remember a group of us drove down to Washington, DC for one of the marches. And we were, we were very against the war, and there was a bond there. We-we...
IG: 24:51
Do remember- what year the protest in Washington? Do you remember?
BP: 24:55
I am guessing 1966. I am guessing.
IG: 25:00
And you know, was it many students, or just your friends, or who went from Binghamton? Do you remember?
BP: 25:09
Well, we were in a car, so [crosstalk]
IG: 25:12
It must not [inaudible] so large.
BP: 25:14
-very much, but there were other people that definitely went down.
IG: 25:18
Right-right.
BP: 25:19
I do not remember whether any busses of students went down, I am not sure. But I mean, I can feel the emotion of that and even now, how against the war we were and how much we wanted to fight it.
IG: 25:34
How was it like being in Washington with this sea of young people, I imagine.
BP: 25:39
Yeah, it was great. It was really energizing, and it felt like we had to express our opposition. But it was frustrating also, because we did not really know whether this was going to make have an impact, although, in retrospect, it certainly had an impact in Johnson not running for a second term.
IG: 26:02
Right.
BP: 26:03
So, we had sudden effect there.
IG: 26:05
Do you feel that you were politicized during your undergraduate career? Do you think you are a political or was it just that one instance?
BP: 26:22
That is a good question. I certainly am very interested in politics. I mean, I met- I got together with Randy going up to New Hampshire to Canvas for John Kerry. So, when it- when I am and I am very energized about the 2018-
IG: 26:42
By the way, went to a fundraiser for John Kerry.
BP: 26:45
Oh, right.
IG: 26:48
Yeah.
BP: 26:49
I am very energized about the 2018 midterms and the 2020 election. I want to do everything I can. But I would not say that most of my life, I have been that political, you know, I have had my views and I have contributed money at various times, but I cannot say that I have participated in a lot of organizing.
IG: 27:13
So do you think that Binghamton was kind of a foundational experience for you, or it was just something that you went through to get a degree.
BP: 27:25
I certainly think it had an influence. I mean it, it put me in the direction of brain research and experimental psychology, and got me headed off and in that in that direction for the first 10 years of my life.
IG: 27:51
Even though it was not really the psychology, you know, direction that you-
BP: 27:59
envision of beginning.
IG: 28:00
Yea.,
BP: 28:00
That is right.
IG: 28:03
So, you know, there were women at Binghamton. [laughter] You know, did you date anybody?
BP: 28:19
Well, this is, yeah, this is, this is very important part of my history.
IG: 28:27
Yeah.
BP: 28:28
So, I remember walking along near Whitney in my freshman year, thinking, you know, I am really, really happy, as long as I do not think about girls like I must have had some fear, some insecurity, that-that was troubling me. But, I mean, I was basically a pretty happy person. There was something called "Winter Weekend."
IG: 29:08
Yeah, what was that?
BP: 29:09
It was something that I think the fraternities and the social clubs ran. It was the middle of the winter term, and it involved parties and stuff, and it was organized over- around the weekend, and people had dates for it. So, I decided I wanted to go to that. And I had been hanging around a few of people, and I asked one of the girls I was hanging out with to go. Her name was Mary Jean and so we went. had a pretty good time. I did not much, have much a dating life in high school, so I during that week. I made out for the first time. But at the end of the weekend, we were on the way back to the dorm, and I decided that was it. I did not really want to see her anymore.
IG: 29:09
You did not what.
BP: 29:12
Did not really want to see her anymore after that weekend. So, we get up to the door of the dorm, and before I say anything, she says, "Would like to have lunch tomorrow?" And I ended up saying, "Well, okay." And I ended up saying, "Well, okay," for the next six months-- always feeling like I did not really want to be in this relationship, but not knowing how to break it up.
IG: 30:41
Right.
BP: 30:43
And that lasted until, I guess it was trimester. So summer was in the end of June- was that that semester, that trimester, and then summer was July, August, September, October. So, I finally did say- she was from Buffalo, and I was from New York, so I finally did say at the end, "I do not think I want to see you when we get back."
IG: 31:07
That what
BP: 31:08
That when we get back, I do not think I want to continue dating, yeah, and she accepted it, but then over the summer, much to my surprise, to start to miss her, and when we got back, we sort of hung out for a little bit, and then we started going out again. But this time it was very different. I came, kind of became dependent on her.
IG: 31:33
Yeah.
BP: 31:34
And it did not really work well. And during this time, I find myself getting depressed. And so, this whole-- I think when I look back on it, one of the reasons I became depressed is that during that time, when I was with her, in the first semester, I was not really being myself, I was not being true to myself, and I kind of got out of sorts that way.
IG: 31:59
How? I mean, how did you it is a hard question, but I mean, how did you being yourself, meaning-meaning that you were not telling her what you felt
BP: 32:11
Right and sort of like being who I thought you wanted me to be.
IG: 32:16
Yeah.
BP: 32:16
Instead of being who I was,
IG: 32:17
I see, I see.
BP: 32:19
And I did not really date anybody else that seriously for the rest of the college.
IG: 32:24
Did you part as friends? Or did you never speak to her again, or when you finally parted company?
BP: 32:32
You mean in the sophomore year? It was somewhat acrimonious. I think, you know, I, I think we were civil to each other after that, but never close. And as far as you know, I dated here and there the rest of the time, but never really-
IG: 32:35
Yeah. Yeah.
BP: 32:59
-hooked up with anyone.
IG: 33:01
Do you think that she was very career oriented, or was she, your former- that first girlfriend? Was she looking for a husband?
BP: 33:13
[inaudible] yeah. I think she was looking for a husband.
IG: 33:19
Do you think that these were the expectations of young women at the time, even those who had gotten into Harpur College, or were they looking toward- well, I mean, you cannot say, you cannot generalize-
BP: 33:36
Yeah, I cannot generalize exactly.
IG: 33:39
But she was looking-
BP: 33:39
I think she was looking for a husband.
IG: 33:41
Yeah.
BP: 33:42
And I think that it was a time when expectations were changing for women.
IG: 33:46
Were changing.
BP: 33:47
You know-
IG: 33:49
Well, you mentioned that, you know, there was an expectation from your parents. That you would go on-
BP: 33:54
Right.
IG: 33:54
-with your studies, but your sisters could do anything that they liked.
BP: 33:54
Right.
IG: 33:54
So that -that-that is my answer, really.
BP: 33:54
Right. That is right.
IG: 33:56
At Harpur College, which is, which, I mean, had an excellent reputation, or, I mean, it had a reputation of being a very rigorous school. I do not want to put words into your mouth. [laughs]
BP: 34:18
No, it was yes, it was.
IG: 34:21
It was.
BP: 34:21
I mean, once my- one sister did not go to college.
IG: 34:25
Right.
BP: 34:26
And one sister went to college for one year and then met someone and got married.
IG: 34:31
Right.
BP: 34:32
But, you know, the women that were at Harpur College already-
IG: 34:36
Right.
BP: 34:37
I think we are a little more career origin.
IG: 34:39
A little more career origin, but not much.
BP: 34:42
Yeah, I think not. That is right, they still were kind of transitioning from looking for a husband to thinking, "Oh, maybe I can have my own career."
IG: 34:56
So how do you think- how did the transition manifest for women that you noticed during that time? Were they becoming- what more career oriented? Were they more, you know, did they, I mean, did kids have sexual relations at the time?
BP: 35:23
I would not know. [laughs]
IG: 35:24
You would not know. You would not know. You would not know. So, your-your-your buddies and you were not talking about that?
BP: 35:30
Oh well, yeah, I had one-one friend of mine definitely talked about his kind of conquests. And I think I had a roommate who had a girlfriend, and they were sleeping together. Oh, you know, it reminds me of the Rule of, you know, a book in the door-door had to be open the width of a book, yes, and one foot on the floor.
IG: 36:03
Yes-yes-yes. I have heard.
BP: 36:06
And-
IG: 36:06
So, did you witness that at all?
BP: 36:10
Well, we talked about those- Yeah. -those rules. But I-I mean, I never attempted to sleep with someone while I was in college. I see so I would not know. I never tried to bend those rules, but I do, I am sure that there were other my friends that did.
IG: 36:31
I see. So-so how did your girlfriend from that time, and does she have a name?
BP: 36:40
Mary Jean.
IG: 36:41
Mary Jean. How did your girlfriend and you spend time together?
BP: 36:48
Well, we would have almost every meal together.
IG: 36:50
Yeah.
BP: 36:52
And we would study together.
IG: 36:53
Right.
BP: 36:54
And, you know, we would make out.
IG: 36:57
Yeah.
BP: 36:58
Uh, and maybe occasionally see a movie if somebody had a car, or maybe if there was a movie shown on campus.
IG: 37:12
Did you mention Mary Jean to your parents? I mean, did you-
BP: 37:16
Oh yes.
IG: 37:17
Yes.
BP: 37:19
Mary Jane was not Jewish, and I did mention that I was going out with her, and again, my father was not happy.
IG: 37:36
Yeah.
BP: 37:36
Yeah, that was uh-
IG: 37:39
That might have had an influence.
BP: 37:42
Could have had an influence, yeah.
IG: 37:44
When you went home to- for the summers, what did you do? How would you spend your time?
BP: 37:48
I would get a job.
IG: 37:50
Yeah. Where would you work?
BP: 37:51
I mean, it was an advantage that it was a trimester with July, August, September and October, because I- you generally lied and said I was permanent. So let us see. In (19)64 I got a job at the New York World's Fair.
IG: 38:10
Oh, I remember that.
BP: 38:11
Yeah, and I had the most boring job in the world.
IG: 38:15
What did you do?
BP: 38:16
I was a Pinkerton Guard, and I was stationed between two escalators, and my job was to push a button if anything happened in emergency. So, the most interesting part of my day was when every once in a while, somebody asked me directions to go somewhere, but it was very pretty boring job.
IG: 38:37
What other, what other jobs did you have?
BP: 38:40
The next year, I worked in a purse factory. I was like stock boy, and I worked there for several months, and then when I told my boss that I was leaving, he said, "Oh, I am really sorry. I was about to promote you." So, they wanted me to stay, but they did not realize that I was a college boy.
IG: 39:04
I did not ask you an important question, why did you choose Binghamton to study?
BP: 39:12
Basically, it was my third choice. It was my [crosstalk]
IG: 39:15
What were your first two choices?
BP: 39:16
Cornell and University of Rochester. So, Cornell, I did not get into and Rochester, I was on the waiting list.
IG: 39:23
So, were these known as math schools?
BP: 39:28
No-
IG: 39:29
[crosstalk] programs?
BP: 39:29
They just were-
IG: 39:31
Well, I mean, Cornell is for everything.
BP: 39:33
Right-right, and, but I did know in my senior year in high school that I wanted to leave New York. I did not want to go to Brooklyn College. I did not want to stay at home, and so I figured out a way to pay for everything myself. So, I walked into the kitchen in my home to my parents and said, "These are the three schools I am applying to, Binghamton, Rochester, Cornell." I did not give them a choice of Brooklyn College.
IG: 39:50
That is fantastic.
BP: 40:00
I just knew I could pay for it. I got a regent scholarship that paid for tuition totally, which was all of $400 a trimester.
IG: 40:00
Yeah, times were different.
BP: 40:01
Right. Right. I got a federal loan that basically paid for my room and board at school, and I did summer work to pick up, make my expenses, so I really was not dependent on [crosstalk]
IG: 40:25
That is very enterprise. But what did they say anyway? I mean, What-what? I mean, you kind of put your foot down, and this is my-
BP: 40:36
They did not have much of a choice. They-they said, "Are you sure?"
IG: 40:42
What can they say?
BP: 40:48
But I was very glad I went to Binghamton.
IG: 40:53
So-so had you had your parents heard of Binghamton before you announced that you were, you know, this was your third choice.
BP: 41:07
I do not think they knew much about Binghamton Harpur College at the time.
IG: 41:13
Yeah, Harpur College.
BP: 41:14
Right. I do not think they knew much about it. But by the way, you know what? I tell people that I went to Harpur College- They would say, "Harvard?"
IG: 41:22
Yeah. Yeah.
BP: 41:22
I would say, "No-no, Harpur College, it is in Binghamton." And they would say, "Way down in Alabama?"
IG: 41:35
Yeah, I know I when I told my daughter I was accepting a job at Binghamton. She thought, "Birmingham?"
BP: 41:43
Yeah, yeah.
IG: 41:45
But Harpur College had a reputation, and before I mean, do you know that it was you know, what were its strengths? What-what-what did you know about it before you- why did you apply to Harpur College rather than to SUNY Buffalo, for example?
BP: 42:06
I think it had the reputation of being the best state school. I think that was the reputation, and I did well in high school.
IG: 42:15
Yeah.
BP: 42:16
And I was fairly sure I could get in, but I thought that I was worth the best state school.
IG: 42:25
Yeah.
BP: 42:26
You know.
IG: 42:28
Did you visit before- did you visit Harpur College before your acceptance or, I mean, did you first arrive to campus on the first day of school?
BP: 42:41
I do not remember visiting.
IG: 42:42
You do not remember visiting.
BP: 42:43
I think, I think I just [crosstalk]
IG: 42:44
You just went into it cold.
BP: 42:46
Yeah, I think I did.
IG: 42:48
And how did it strike you? I mean, you were a city boy. How did the country strike you? What did it look like?
BP: 42:58
Well, my, one of my memories of the first day of being there, my parents brought me up there, and I remember my parents leaving the dormitory, and I think I looked out the window and saw them, and they saw me as they were leaving. My father went. So, you know, they were, it was hard for them to-to-
IG: 43:34
Because you were a tight knit family?
BP: 43:36
Yeah.
IG: 43:37
Yeah.
BP: 43:39
And uh, but I think I adjusted pretty fast. And uh, hmm-
IG: 43:51
I mean, what? I mean, it is a country, it is fresh air, it is, I mean, it is-
BP: 43:57
Well.
IG: 43:58
-pretty, it was pretty rural at the time.
BP: 44:01
Yes, it was. It was not until I was at Binghamton before I had any understanding of why people took hikes-
IG: 44:09
Yeah.
BP: 44:09
-you know. But until then, I really just did not understand. Did not get it. But the friends that I made were from Buffalo.
IG: 44:18
Yeah.
BP: 44:19
And they had more of a non-city, um, feel a non-city. They understood what it was like to not be in a city, and so they kind of introduced me to walks in the country, but it was I had to get used to it, but I understood that I was in college and I was not in the city anymore. I was there to learn, and I think I adjusted pretty fast.
IG: 44:52
You adapted very quickly.
BP: 44:54
Yeah, and I liked my roommate, that was very important too. Sort of bond with my roommate.
IG: 45:02
Did you stay with the same roommate for four years?
BP: 45:05
No, I was with him for at least the first year, and possibly two years. Yeah, possibly two years that I was in a suite with several people.
IG: 45:21
With how many people?
BP: 45:23
I think probably four or five.
IG: 45:25
Yeah.
BP: 45:26
Yeah.
IG: 45:27
So, did you have your own kitchen? And-
BP: 45:30
Yes, I think so.
IG: 45:31
You think so. So, did that mean that somebody with a car went to town to buy groceries?
BP: 45:40
I am not going to be much help here.
IG: 45:41
Okay, you do not remember. Do you remember- but you-you would go to the cafeteria?
BP: 45:46
Yes, definitely.
IG: 45:47
So maybe there was not a kitchen?
BP: 45:49
Right. Could be. And I do remember liking hanging out in the student center.
IG: 45:55
At the Student Center?
BP: 45:56
Right.
IG: 45:57
And what- where was that, and what was that like?
BP: 46:02
That was by what we call the esplanade. Is it still the student center now? The student union. That is called the student union, right.
IG: 46:14
I see.
BP: 46:14
But we called it the student center. We would go down and get a snack.
IG: 46:19
Yeah.
BP: 46:20
Get a burger or something. And uh-
IG: 46:24
Did people, you know, I am just getting, you know- did you know- the outside time, the you know, the political climate, the issues of the day-
BP: 46:41
Yeah.
IG: 46:41
-did you discuss them?
BP: 46:44
Yes-yes.
IG: 46:44
So, what-what were some of the things that you were discussing-
BP: 46:47
Well, mainly the war.
IG: 46:48
The mainly the war.
BP: 46:49
Yeah. Now I remember being in the student center when the Six Day War in Israel broke out, but I know the timing is right, because I think that was in June (19)67 and I graduated in (19)67 and I must have graduated in- I do not know why I would have been there in June (19)67 but I remember-
IG: 47:27
Maybe for the graduation ceremony?
BP: 47:29
Could be, could be, but I remember feeling like I want to go over to Israel and fight. You know, I remember SDS.
IG: 47:35
Yeah. Right.
BP: 47:41
And-
IG: 47:42
But you were not part of it.
BP: 47:42
I was not part of that, and I was not as radical as that.
IG: 47:45
Yeah. Are any of your friends part of SDS?
BP: 47:50
Not I remember. No, I do not think so. Um-
IG: 48:00
Was there an anxiety about being drafted among your friends?
BP: 48:04
Yes, definitely.
IG: 48:07
Right. So, were a lot of your friends thinking of going on to graduate schools?
BP: 48:15
Uh huh? Definitely.
IG: 48:17
Yeah.
BP: 48:18
Definitely.
IG: 48:20
So, you know what- I am just wondering also the student composition were- you said you mentioned that, you know, there were students from Buffalo, but would you think that the majority were from New York City, Long Island?
BP: 48:37
And yes, I think the majority were from New York City, Long Island, definitely.
IG: 48:45
But you- did you gravitate to the New York City and Long Island kids, or to the Buffalo kids?
BP: 48:52
Well, my friends turned out to be from Buffalo.
IG: 48:56
Oh, that is just happened to be.
BP: 48:58
Yeah. I am not sure why.
IG: 49:00
Yeah.
BP: 49:01
They were in my dorm.
IG: 49:02
Yeah. Did you ever visit their family's house?
BP: 49:07
No.
IG: 49:09
Did anybody visit your family? Do you think?
BP: 49:13
No, I do not think so.
IG: 49:14
No. Well, do you remember any of the- how are we doing for time we still have it is, it is only 4:20.
BP: 49:28
Yeah, we are fine.
IG: 49:29
Rather, 4:20.
BP: 49:30
Yeah, we are fine.
IG: 49:31
Um, did your parents have any expectations of you going on to get a job after college or...
BP: 49:42
No, they wanted me to get a graduate degree.
IG: 49:45
A graduate degree.
BP: 49:46
Yeah.
IG: 49:49
So, did you get any direction from your advice- did you have a faculty advisor? Did you have a mentor who advised you about where to apply or you know, what was your interaction like with, sort of the academic community, I mean, with the faculty?
BP: 50:10
Oh, another faculty member that I remember-
IG: 50:13
Yeah.
BP: 50:14
-was Peter Donovick.
IG: 50:15
Yeah.
BP: 50:17
And I think he encouraged me to go to graduate school in physiological psychology. Now there was another faculty member, Dan Fallon, but I do not remember whether I came- I became, I became close with him, but I do not remember whether it was as an undergraduate or after I had come back and was a graduate- I was a laboratory assistant.
IG: 50:42
Yeah.
BP: 50:43
I am not sure which period.
IG: 50:45
But these three-faculty member, these three professors, had an impact.
BP: 50:50
Yes.
IG: 50:51
Did you ever stay in touch with them after graduating?
BP: 50:54
No.
IG: 50:55
No.
BP: 50:58
Jim- trying to remember whether-
IG: 51:04
What-what do you think you know? Why did they advise the schools that they did? I mean, what you said this, that one of the professors advised you to-
BP: 51:16
[crosstalk] to go on, to pursue-
IG: 51:17
To go on. Yeah. I mean, what do they think of your work?
BP: 51:22
I think they thought it was that I was had a lot of potential.
IG: 51:25
You had a lot of in-in research?
BP: 51:29
Right in research.
IG: 51:30
In psychological.
BP: 51:30
Right. Because that is what the track that I was on.
IG: 51:32
Yeah, I understand. And so, were there any small victories that you remember of as you know, a research assistant during those days. Where would you conduct the research?
BP: 51:49
Well, I did a senior project.
IG: 51:51
I see.
BP: 51:52
And that was, that was really uh-
IG: 51:55
What was a senior project?
BP: 51:57
I studied the circadian, circadian rhythms of rats. And it was an ambitious project.
IG: 52:06
Yeah.
BP: 52:08
What I did was I had rats in an activity wheel.
IG: 52:14
Right.
BP: 52:15
So, they could, they could step out from their cage and run in an activity wheel whenever they wanted.
IG: 52:20
Right.
BP: 52:20
And if you tracked the activity, you noticed-
IG: 52:25
Right.
BP: 52:25
-that they had more activity, I think during the-[inaudible] nocturnal or not.
IG: 52:33
Right.
BP: 52:34
But they might have been more active at night.
IG: 52:38
Right.
BP: 52:38
And less active during the day-
IG: 52:40
Yes.
BP: 52:42
-or and then I tried to manipulate the lighting.
IG: 52:44
Right.
BP: 52:45
So, I put the lights on when they were most active.
IG: 52:48
Right.
BP: 52:49
Took them off when they were least active.
IG: 52:51
Right.
BP: 52:51
And they gradually switched.
IG: 52:53
Yeah.
BP: 52:54
And I did that for quite a while.
IG: 52:55
Yeah.
BP: 52:56
And then I-I put the light on all the time-
IG: 53:01
Yeah.
BP: 53:02
-and I saw, I tried to see whether the activity would revert back to the original cycle.
IG: 53:07
Yeah.
BP: 53:08
And I think it did. And I wrote about that, and I defended the thesis-
IG: 53:09
It did.
BP: 53:13
-stuff like that.
IG: 53:13
Right.
BP: 53:13
Yeah, it was, it was.
IG: 53:13
Right.
BP: 53:14
It was very good research experience.
IG: 53:16
It was well received. Do you remember any of the accolades that you got from your faculty?
BP: 53:29
No.
IG: 53:30
You do not remember. So, when you went to the University of Rochester for your graduate degree, did you feel that Binghamton prepared you well?
BP: 53:41
I think it did, and I must have done well, because Rochester is an excellent program.
IG: 53:46
Yeah.
BP: 53:47
It is a complete Center for Brain research.
IG: 53:50
Right.
BP: 53:50
And if I had gotten a PhD, I would have taken neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, neurophysiology, neuropsychology and neurochemistry.
IG: 54:00
Right.
BP: 54:01
Which, I think I did take all those courses.
IG: 54:03
Right.
BP: 54:04
And I was- I felt like I was being held back emotionally for my tendency to be depressed from-
IG: 54:14
excuse me [inaudible]
BP: 54:16
A tendency to be depressed-
IG: 54:18
Yes.
BP: 54:18
-held me back emotionally from really doing my best intellectual work.
IG: 54:23
Right.
BP: 54:24
But that if that had not been there, Rochester would have been an excellent program for me to get a PhD.
IG: 54:32
Right.
BP: 54:33
And I had a friend who got there who got a PhD and then worked at the UCLA brain research and had a very successful career.
IG: 54:49
I am kind of taking it all in and uh-
BP: 54:54
But Binghamton definitely prepared me for it.
IG: 54:56
Yeah. Do you feel um, a greater affiliation for Binghamton or for Rochester?
BP: 55:06
Binghamton.
IG: 55:07
Binghamton. Why is that?
BP: 55:08
I spent more time there.
IG: 55:10
yeah.
BP: 55:11
It has been four years there.
IG: 55:12
Yeah.
BP: 55:13
I have, no I- there is, there is one friend from Rochester that I have kind of kept in touch with, but I have many more relationships from with Binghamton students. And there is just something about your undergraduate experience. There is more spirit there and more identification.
IG: 55:38
I absolutely agree. Yeah. Were there any, I mean, you had a very tight knit circle of friends, and at Binghamton, do you remember- and they were all- what, you know, white middle class-
BP: 55:57
Oh, yeah.
IG: 55:58
Were there any, you know, students of color? Were there any international students going to Binghamton to Harpur College at the time? Do you remember that?
BP: 56:10
I do not remember them.
IG: 56:12
So, it was pretty-
BP: 56:15
Pretty vanilla.
IG: 56:16
Pretty homogeneous.
BP: 56:17
Yeah.
IG: 56:18
Pretty vanilla.
BP: 56:19
Yeah.
IG: 56:24
You know, did you care about, did you read about- what did you think about, you know, civil rights movement that was kind of really sweeping through [crosstalk]
BP: 56:35
That is true. (19)64 is civil rights legislation.
IG: 56:38
Yeah. So, did you know about that? Did you kind of- were you aware of that or not really?
BP: 56:47
You know, I must have been, but I do not remember.
IG: 56:49
You do not remember.
BP: 56:50
I do not remember being aware of it, like I was aware of the war crosstalk]
IG: 56:53
Of the war because it affected you directly.
BP: 56:56
[crosstalk] yeah.
IG: 56:56
You know the war.
BP: 56:57
Yeah.
IG: 56:58
So how did you follow the events of the ward. Were you watching television? Where was the television at the Student Center?
BP: 57:08
I think there was a television in the lounge of the dorm.
IG: 57:12
Oh, I see, I see.
BP: 57:14
Because I remember watching Kennedy's funeral on that television.
IG: 57:17
That must have been a shocker.
BP: 57:18
Oh my gosh. It is one of those things where you never forget where you were.
IG: 57:23
Did you think that, you know what we were under threat, or, you know what did you think?
BP: 57:29
Oh, no, I thought it was just so very, very sad.
IG: 57:33
Yeah.
BP: 57:33
We loved Kennedy.
IG: 57:34
Yeah.
BP: 57:35
We just loved him.
IG: 57:36
Right.
BP: 57:37
And to have that taken out from under us was very sad, and his funeral was on my birthday.
IG: 57:44
Oh.
BP: 57:47
That was the worst birthday I have ever had.
IG: 57:49
Yeah.
BP: 57:52
So, I remember that very well. I remember Kennedy's assassination, and following-
IG: 57:58
Why did you love Kennedy?
BP: 58:00
He was- he had such a great sense of life, you know, and sense of humor. We loved his wit. We loved his press conferences, and we thought that he would- he had his heart was in the right place.
IG: 58:30
How do you mean?
BP: 58:36
I-I think he uh- I think I remember him doing things that made me feel like he would care about minorities. I do not remember exactly what he did, but I mean, probably Johnson did more for the civil rights movement, even Kennedy might have had power to do because Johnson was so good with Congress.
IG: 59:07
Right.
BP: 59:09
And one question that we always debated afterwards, after he was killed, and then later on-
IG: 59:16
With your fellow students?
BP: 59:17
Yeah.
IG: 59:18
Fellow, I mean, with your friends.
BP: 59:19
Right. Was- would Kennedy have dragged us into the war like Johnson did? And you know, our sense was that probably he would not have.
IG: 59:32
Yeah.
BP: 59:33
But who knows? We just do not know.
IG: 59:36
Right.
BP: 59:38
But the war is definitely what dominated our thinking [crosstalk] my thinking. I do not remember. I think I must have followed the civil rights march in (19)65 and Martin Luther King's famous speech, but I do not have as much of a recollection of that as I am the war.
IG: 1:00:01
Did you talk about politics at home at all? Was that something that was talked to the dinner table? What-what were your parents? Republican demo?
BP: 1:00:12
They were Democrat.
IG: 1:00:14
Definitely Democrat.
BP: 1:00:15
Yeah.
IG: 1:00:17
Yeah. So-
BP: 1:00:18
I do not think we talked too much about it, but they were definitely Democrats.
IG: 1:00:26
Well, you know, do you have any recollections more that you want to share with us about Harpur College and your experience and the impact that you had that it had on you rather.
BP: 1:00:44
Uh-huh, yeah.
IG: 1:00:52
What-what lessons did you learn from this time in your life? Maybe, as you put it.
BP: 1:01:09
I think somehow the whole intellectual atmosphere of college gave me a real conviction that it was important to be intellectually honest, to really study something and be able to and just learn enough about it to really have an informed opinion.
IG: 1:01:37
Just beautiful. Yeah.
BP: 1:01:41
Yeah. I mean-
IG: 1:01:42
And this was a principle that guided you through your life.
BP: 1:01:51
Right.
IG: 1:01:53
Did you impart this to your students when you were teaching?
BP: 1:01:57
I tried to.
IG: 1:01:59
What did you tell them? How did you translate that into terms that they could understand?
BP: 1:02:06
Well, I was a math teacher.
IG: 1:02:08
Yeah.
BP: 1:02:09
And I would make- I would tell them, you know, do not take what I am saying just because I am saying it. Really try to understand where this rule or this law comes from. Make it your own. You know, nothing is true just because I am saying it. It all comes from logic and reasoning. And try to reason it out for yourself so that you understand it like I understand it.
IG: 1:02:43
So are there any you know and you think that that you know Binghamton-
BP: 1:02:54
Oh, yeah.
IG: 1:02:56
-formed you in that way to be intellectually honest,
BP: 1:03:02
Right. And I mean, I felt like my opinion about the Vietnam War was the most reasoned and intellectually honest opinion I have had almost about almost anything, because I read a whole book on it. I really learned about it, but where-where it started, and who was involved, and when I decided that I was against the war, I just felt like I had really-really good intellectual reasons for-for being against the war.
IG: 1:03:37
I really like that. Are there any concluding remarks, as you have?
BP: 1:03:53
I think Binghamton has a great reputation, and so I am very proud to be a graduate. Um-
IG: 1:04:06
What would you say to future students who are listening or to this recording 10-20, years down the line? What would you say to them?
BP: 1:04:18
I would say that going to Binghamton gives you an opportunity to dive into a great intellectual atmosphere and really exercise your mind and learn all kinds of things and make the most of the opportunity.
IG: 1:04:37
I think that is wonderful. Thank you so much.
(End of Interview)
Interview with: Barry Polsky
Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov
Transcriber: Oral History Lab
Date of interview: 3 January 2018
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
BP: 00:03
Travel will be difficult.
IG: 00:04
Travel will be difficult tomorrow. It is the snow is starting at four o'clock in the morning.
BP: 00:10
Right. Four or five.
IG: 00:11
Four or five. We will figure it out. So, for the record, please tell us your name, your birth date and where we are.
BP: 00:35
My name is Barry Polsky. I was born on November 25, 1946 and we are in Somerville, Massachusetts.
IG: 00:48
Where did you grow up?
BP: 00:50
I grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
IG: 00:53
And tell us a little bit about your upbringing and what was the occupation of your parents?
BP: 01:04
Yeah, so my parents were both immigrants from the Soviet Union. They both came here in the 1920s separately, I was amazed when I found out, when I was young that they met here and they were both from the Soviet Union. And my- neither of them had much education. My father eventually became the manager of what we used to call an appetizing store, which is a little grocery store that sells smoked fish like lox and herring and kippered salmon. And he had these big jars of candy and big blocks of halva and cheese. It was a wonderful store. It was on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and he managed the store for 25 years, and when he was 60, he bought the store from the owner, and he owned it for six years, until he passed away. My mother was a housewife when we were out of the house. I think my mother got some jobs here and there, but basically, she was a housewife and raised us, and we were, I would say, lower middle class.
IG: 02:22
Where did you go to high school?
BP: 02:23
Midwood High School in Flatbush.
IG: 02:26
I know where that is. Did your parents encourage your pursuing a college degree?
BP: 02:36
It was mandatory.
IG: 02:38
Mandatory.
BP: 02:39
Yes. It was just assumed. Unlike my two older sisters, who could have done whatever they wanted, my parents did not push them in any direction. I was assumed. It was assumed I would go to college, and in fact, later on, when I left graduate school, my father said, I will be disappointed if you do not get a PhD.
IG: 03:01
So, is this what you did?
BP: 03:03
Yes, I went to University of Rochester for graduate school in brain research, psychology and brain research.
IG: 03:11
Oh, my goodness.
BP: 03:12
And I got a master's degree. And then at some point, I decided that graduate school was taking too much out of my personal life to continue, and so I just left after a master's degree. And actually, you may not, you probably do not know this, I came back to Binghamton, and I was a laboratory teaching assistant in psychology for a year and a half at Binghamton.
IG: 03:41
So, what was your occupation, throughout the years?
BP: 03:46
I have had many careers, several careers. So, after I was the teaching assistant at Binghamton for a year and a half, I went back to New York City, and I was briefly a programmer, computer programmer for AT&T.
IG: 03:49
Tell us about it. What years were the-
BP: 04:05
1970 I believe. And then in (19)71 I got a job as a research assistant at Hoffmann-La Roche [F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd], the big pharmaceutical company. And I worked there as a research assistant for eight years, laboratory research. Then I went to Israel for 10 weeks, and when I got back to New York, yeah, when I got back to New York, I realized I just did not like New York City anymore, and I knew some people in Boston, and I just up and went to Boston. I decided I want to live in Boston, and I have never regretted it. I love it here. And I kind of bounced around. Did not quite know what I wanted to do. I was a bus boy. I was the- I did various things. And then I settled into being a full time Boston cab driver for about five years. And when I was approaching 40, I decided that I needed a real career, and I read a book called 90 jobs for the (19)90s, and it said that computer programmers would be in great demand. So, I went back to computer programming. I went to Harvard Extension School and got a computer science degree, and then I worked as a computer programmer for about 15 years.
IG: 05:36
Can I ask what area I mean, did your programming in-in-in the (19)70s, in the early (19)70s, [crosstalk] inform your, did you do-
BP: 05:47
I did cobalt programming in the (19)70, business programming, cobalt program, right in graduate school, in the program at Harvard Extension, I learned C, not C plus-plus just C.
IG: 06:01
Just C.
BP: 06:03
And I got a job with a firm in Rhode Island doing kind of customer service and a little programming. So, what was their niche?
IG: 06:10
I see.
BP: 06:10
I did that for about a year and a half, and then I was offered a job up here in Cambridge with a company called Computer Sports Systems. And they were very interesting company. They had an interesting niche. They invented automatic scoring for bowling alleys. If you go bowling-
IG: 06:34
Yeah.
BP: 06:34
You do not have to score by hand.
IG: 06:36
Oh!
BP: 06:37
There is a machine that detects the number of pins you knock down, and it projects your score overhead, and that is on all with software. And this company invented that software that did the automatic.
IG: 06:50
So, what was your role in [crosstalk] helped design.
BP: 06:53
I helped design and maintain those programs.
IG: 06:56
Oh! That is very interesting. Who were some of your clients?
BP: 07:03
Oh, well, we worked with Brunswick, which was the main, one of the main manufacturers of bowling equipment. I think I heard of- Yeah, and actually bowling alleys, big bowling alleys, would be our clients. And after a while, there was not a lot of business anymore for that. So, they tried a big project to get the company going again. The project petered out. And when that project failed, they laid off just every programmer, except one, and I was laid off. And-
IG: 07:40
And what year was this?
BP: 07:41
19- Let us see, I think 2003,2003 or (20)04, and I did not have another an appetite to pound the pavement looking for another job where I looked at a computer screen all day.
IG: 08:01
Right.
BP: 08:02
And so, I wanted more interaction. So, after doing a couple of stops and starts, I decided to become a teacher. And eventually I landed a job as a high school math teacher at Everett High School, which is a suburb of Boston.
IG: 08:19
Did you go through a special program?
BP: 08:21
I tried to get into a couple of training programs, and I could not get in. But in one of the interviewers said, you know, you have an interesting resume, just send your resume out to people; do not go to a training program. So, I- the Boston Globe had an ad for Everett High School wanting math teachers. I sent in my resume, and two weeks before the years begin, they dropped me in for an interview, and they hired me the next day.
IG: 08:47
Oh, wonderful.
BP: 08:48
So, I sort of started right off the street, and I worked there for 10 years.
IG: 08:55
Did you enjoy the experience? I did. I thought was very rewarding. It was stressful, and it was the hardest job that I have ever had, especially the first year, because I was checking homework one day, and I, you know, somebody was not getting it. And I said, "Well, did you read the book?" And he said, "I cannot learn from the book." So, I decided the book was not good enough, and I wrote my own book of notes for all the lessons that year that I distributed to the students. So that I was working, you asked my wife I was working day and night, but I got it done, and later on, it became less and less work as I had my lessons planned. Lesson plans- what grades did you teach?
BP: 09:40
Pre-calculus, juniors and seniors.
IG: 09:45
And what kind of neighborhood is Everett?
BP: 09:47
Very diverse.
IG: 09:49
Very diverse.
BP: 09:50
Working class.
IG: 09:51
Working class.
BP: 09:51
Yeah. Um, basically working class and diverse in terms of their Haitians and Brazilians, and Central Americans and African Americans, and, you know, probably maybe 50 to 60 percent white, and then the rest very diverse. And it was very rewarding, but toward the end of my 10 years, it became more and more stressful, and I think the main reason was cell phones in the classroom.
IG: 10:24
Was what?
BP: 10:24
Cell phone.
IG: 10:25
Oh, yes.
BP: 10:27
You just could not get the students away from their cell phones. And I would have a rule.
IG: 10:33
Right.
BP: 10:33
But it would be very hard to enforce it, because if they start, if they finished their work, I would- they would- cell phones would come out. I would say, no cell phones. They would say, I finished my work.
IG: 10:43
Right.
BP: 10:43
It was very hard to control.
IG: 10:45
Yeah.
BP: 10:46
So, I was- when I retired after 10 years, I had a small pension.
IG: 10:50
When-when- so when did you retire?
BP: 10:51
Okay. Yeah. So, I was hired in 2006 and I worked until, I guess, June of 2016.
IG: 11:01
So that is very recent.
BP: 11:03
Yeah, I am retired about a year and a half, almost two years.
IG: 11:06
So how are you enjoying retirement?
BP: 11:10
I love it.
IG: 11:11
You love it.
BP: 11:12
I love it. Mainly. One of the main reasons I love it is that I found the perfect retirement job.
IG: 11:19
Which- what is- and what is that?
BP: 11:22
I am a big baseball fan and I am a Big Red Sox fan.
IG: 11:26
Yeah.
BP: 11:27
I have become a tour guide at Fenway Park.
IG: 11:30
Oh, wow.
BP: 11:32
Fenway Park gives tours to thousands of people a year.
IG: 11:36
How wonderful.
BP: 11:37
And I am one of the tour guides there.
IG: 11:42
That is wonderful. That is wonderful that you found it.
BP: 11:45
And then to make some extra money, I drive Uber.
IG: 11:48
Oh, good for you.
BP: 11:50
So, I am enjoying retirement.
IG: 11:52
Yeah.
BP: 11:52
Not quite as much money as I was making when I finished teaching.
IG: 11:56
Yeah, you have a beautiful home. You live in a lovely area.
BP: 12:00
Well, I lucked out in many ways. When I married Randy, she had a first husband, and she was able to buy this home in the 1980s when it was affordable.
IG: 12:11
Right.
BP: 12:11
So.
IG: 12:12
Where did you meet your wife?
BP: 12:15
We were acquaintances for a number of years in a Jewish congregation of the persuasion, called Jewish renewal. It is kind of like an alternative.
IG: 12:25
Where is it based?
BP: 12:27
When we met, it was based in Watertown, but we meet in rented spaces. Currently, we are based in Waltham.
IG: 12:35
I know.
BP: 12:38
And we were acquaintances for quite a while.
IG: 12:40
Yeah.
BP: 12:40
And in 2004 Randy and another friend, Mary were going to New Hampshire to canvas for John Kerry-
IG: 12:49
Yeah.
BP: 12:50
-and they asked me to come along if I wanted to come along. And I did. And at one point, Mary took a walk, and Randy and I were left in a diner talking, and we hit it off and started dating. And-
IG: 13:02
That is wonderful. So, it is a relatively recent marriage.
BP: 13:07
That is right, we were married. Actually, we were together for eight years before we got married. Oh, so we were only got married a little over three years ago-
IG: 13:17
Only three.
BP: 13:18
-and it was my first marriage at the age of 67.
IG: 13:21
It is what?
BP: 13:21
My first marriage at the age of 67.
IG: 13:26
Bless your heart.
BP: 13:27
Thank you.
IG: 13:27
It is wonderful.
BP: 13:28
Thank you. I am very happy.
IG: 13:32
Wonderful. That is, that is really it. It warms my heart. So let us return a little less backtrack and return to your college days.
BP: 13:47
Yes.
IG: 13:47
So, I mean, do you still keep in touch with your classmates from Binghamton?
BP: 13:54
There is one small group of classmates that I have always kept in touch with.
IG: 13:58
Right.
BP: 14:02
We were in the same dorm. We were in Whitney together.
IG: 14:06
Right.
BP: 14:07
And there were like three or four couples that we keep in touch-
IG: 14:20
Yeah.
BP: 14:20
Since then, it is not a wide range of students-
IG: 14:25
Not a wide range [crosstalk]
BP: 14:26
But-
IG: 14:26
Do you ever get together?
BP: 14:28
Um, maybe on big reunions, like I get together with them on big reunions. I think I saw them on the 50th and the 40th reunion. The union now passed its 50th.
IG: 14:41
Yeah, I remember you at the reunion.
BP: 14:44
Yeah.
IG: 14:45
On campus.
BP: 14:46
Yeah. But they get, generally get together on New Year's Eve in Pennsylvania, at somebody's house. But I usually do not make that. But we said, you know, holiday- [crosstalk]
IG: 15:00
-together with the Strauss's?
BP: 15:01
Yes.
IG: 15:02
We interview them.
BP: 15:04
Yes-yes, wonderful people.
IG: 15:06
Because I- they mentioned a New Year's tradition in Pennsylvania.
BP: 15:12
Right.
IG: 15:12
That is, that is why I thought, Okay, so tell me about the campus when you first arrived. What was it like?
BP: 15:24
Well, I love say, I always tell people when I got there, it was Harpur College.
IG: 15:31
Yeah.
BP: 15:32
And it had 1600 students. When I left, it was State University of New York at Binghamton, and it had 6000 students. There was mud and construction everywhere all during those four years. Tt was really an explosion.
IG: 15:49
So, it really went through not even an evolution, but a revolution-
BP: 15:54
Yes.
IG: 15:54
-for four years that you were there?
BP: 15:56
Right.
IG: 15:57
What did you study at Binghamton?
BP: 16:00
I went in thinking I wanted to be a math major.
IG: 16:03
Right.
BP: 16:04
But I took calculus, AP calculus in high school, so I did not take- have to take math the first freshman year. And during the freshman and sophomore year, I kind of had an intellectual awakening, and I decided that people were the most interesting things to study. So, I majored in psychology. Now I expected to study Freud and abnormal psychology and things like that, but the program at Binghamton was primarily experimental psychology, so I studied rats.
IG: 16:11
Right. But that really-
BP: 16:39
It was okay.
IG: 16:41
Awakened your interest in the in the dis, in the subject.
BP: 16:45
That is right.
IG: 16:46
Who were some of the- do you remember some of the names of the faculty-
BP: 16:52
Oh, that [crosstalk]
IG: 16:54
-awakened this interest in you?
BP: 16:55
Yeah. Well, my friend- my first psychology teacher, was Andrew Strouthes. Um, but I had been awakened even before I started taking psychology.
IG: 17:10
By whom? By what?
BP: 17:12
Well, I know that during the summer before my sophomore year, I read William James' psychology. I would get a book on psychology, and this one was called Psychology, so I decided to read it. And I was reading some philosophy. I took philosophy in my sophomore year, and loved it, and I decided I wanted to be a therapist. So, this kind of psychology that I was studying as a sophomore was not really what I was expecting.
IG: 17:46
Yeah.
BP: 17:46
But I still liked it. Then at some point around my junior year, when I- during my-my sophomore year, things got difficult emotionally for me. I struggled with depression some, and I- at one point decided that I had too many of my own problems that I could not figure out to help somebody else with their problems. So, I went from wanting to be a therapist to wanting to do brain research [crosstalk]
IG: 18:23
That is pretty self-aware, I would say, for a young person.
BP: 18:32
Mm-Hmm.
IG: 18:32
So, did you feel supported by the community at Binghamton during the harder times? Or did you have friends that you could reach out to?
BP: 18:45
Um, I was not good at reaching out.
IG: 18:48
No.
BP: 18:49
I was not good at getting support. I think I pretty much carried things on my own. Yeah.
IG: 18:59
So, do you see yourself during those years as a loner, or were you, you know, in a group of friends? And...
BP: 19:11
I would say I had friends; I had a small group of friends.
IG: 19:17
And-
BP: 19:18
And I was- there was something that was not quite a fraternity. It was more like a social club. It was called STO.
IG: 19:26
what was that? Tell us about that?
BP: 19:32
I think there were fraternities, and this was like a fraternity light.
IG: 19:37
Yeah.
BP: 19:39
And it was a little easier to get into a little less prestigious, a little less, you know, rules, and I liked hanging out with those folks.
IG: 19:52
So, what would you do? Would you just, you know, hang out.
BP: 19:57
Wow. Uh, I do not really remember too much else about that. Just go meetings, yeah, just meetings and talk.
IG: 20:08
You had meetings and talks.
BP: 20:09
Right. With uh, my- this girl, close group of friends that I had-
IG: 20:13
Yeah.
BP: 20:15
I remember going out to Sharkies and having speedies.
IG: 20:19
In town?
BP: 20:20
In town.
IG: 20:20
In town. And did you have a car? Did you- did somebody have a car?
BP: 20:26
Somebody must have had a car.
IG: 20:27
Somebody must have had a car.
BP: 20:28
Yeah, I did not have a car in college.
IG: 20:30
Yeah.
BP: 20:30
So, somebody must have had a car.
IG: 20:34
You know so-so what were what was recreational? What was recreation for you, outside of Sharkies and the fraternity, or were you studying all the time?
BP: 20:48
I was studying a lot.
IG: 20:49
You were studying a lot.
BP: 20:54
One thing that comes to mind when you say what was recreation is the first time that I was introduced to smoking grass. [laughs] Now you have to know that Binghamton was kind of like a-
IG: 21:09
Party school? No?
BP: 21:11
No, it was a druggie school [crosstalk] as its reputation was as a druggie school.
IG: 21:17
That is interesting.
BP: 21:18
And a lot of us had our first exposure to grass and acid at Binghamton.
IG: 21:25
Was that kind of inspired by Timothy Leary?
BP: 21:30
Yes-yes.
IG: 21:30
And that was connected to your interest in psychology, right?
BP: 21:35
Probably, I mean, it was more of interest in just having- wanting more experiences, wanting different experiences. I did have- I was not an acid head. I had one trip that was pretty intense, and one time when I took like a half a dose that did not do very much.
IG: 21:59
Excuse me.
BP: 22:00
I took like, a half a dose of acid.
IG: 22:02
Yeah.
BP: 22:03
And it did not do very much.
IG: 22:04
Yeah.
BP: 22:05
So, I would say I had one experience.
IG: 22:09
And what was the experience like, if you do not mind sharing.
BP: 22:12
Not at all. It was pretty-pretty interesting. It was, it was, it was good. At one point, I just felt like, this is great. I just felt so good. And colors were very-very vibrant. And I remember-
IG: 22:30
Were you sitting, standing, walking? Do- Where were you walking?
BP: 22:32
Both I would, I would mostly walking. I remember- I remember going into a room.
IG: 22:40
In resi- in their residence?
BP: 22:41
In the dorm, right. With a rug kind of looking like this.
IG: 22:45
Yeah.
BP: 22:46
And the pattern of the rug looked like it would rai- it raised up and started swirling around. [laughs] It was a psychedelic experience. But some of my insecurities were exacerbated, also. I remember walking during the trip, walking with a friend, and saying to him, you know, I am afraid. I am really boring you. So that was [crosstalk]
IG: 23:13
Yeah, that is interesting. I never heard that. So, in the aftermath, what do you think of this experience? I mean-
BP: 23:25
I am glad I had-
IG: 23:26
Yeah.
BP: 23:27
I am glad I had it. I do not think it did any damage.
IG: 23:29
No.
BP: 23:29
I did not do it enough to really do any damage. And I smoked several times, listened to music, but I never really developed a desire to make it a lifestyle or do it a lot, and now, as an adult, the few times that I have smoked with friends over the years, I do not like the way it makes me feel at all, so I do not do it. I am trying to remember whether we used to go to basketball games. We might have gone to basketball games.
IG: 24:02
So-so, you would get, you know, I mean, you would get together with your friends. Do you remember some of the conversations? Would you talk about politics, the war? You know, the war must have been present on everyone's mind.
BP: 24:17
The war was a big thing. The war was a big thing. I remember either as a sophomore, as a junior, reading a book about the history of the War of Vietnam, and just deciding right then and there that it was unjust. It was a really terrible war. And I remember a group of us drove down to Washington, DC for one of the marches. And we were, we were very against the war, and there was a bond there. We-we...
IG: 24:51
Do remember- what year the protest in Washington? Do you remember?
BP: 24:55
I am guessing 1966. I am guessing.
IG: 25:00
And you know, was it many students, or just your friends, or who went from Binghamton? Do you remember?
BP: 25:09
Well, we were in a car, so [crosstalk]
IG: 25:12
It must not [inaudible] so large.
BP: 25:14
-very much, but there were other people that definitely went down.
IG: 25:18
Right-right.
BP: 25:19
I do not remember whether any busses of students went down, I am not sure. But I mean, I can feel the emotion of that and even now, how against the war we were and how much we wanted to fight it.
IG: 25:34
How was it like being in Washington with this sea of young people, I imagine.
BP: 25:39
Yeah, it was great. It was really energizing, and it felt like we had to express our opposition. But it was frustrating also, because we did not really know whether this was going to make have an impact, although, in retrospect, it certainly had an impact in Johnson not running for a second term.
IG: 26:02
Right.
BP: 26:03
So, we had sudden effect there.
IG: 26:05
Do you feel that you were politicized during your undergraduate career? Do you think you are a political or was it just that one instance?
BP: 26:22
That is a good question. I certainly am very interested in politics. I mean, I met- I got together with Randy going up to New Hampshire to Canvas for John Kerry. So, when it- when I am and I am very energized about the 2018-
IG: 26:42
By the way, went to a fundraiser for John Kerry.
BP: 26:45
Oh, right.
IG: 26:48
Yeah.
BP: 26:49
I am very energized about the 2018 midterms and the 2020 election. I want to do everything I can. But I would not say that most of my life, I have been that political, you know, I have had my views and I have contributed money at various times, but I cannot say that I have participated in a lot of organizing.
IG: 27:13
So do you think that Binghamton was kind of a foundational experience for you, or it was just something that you went through to get a degree.
BP: 27:25
I certainly think it had an influence. I mean it, it put me in the direction of brain research and experimental psychology, and got me headed off and in that in that direction for the first 10 years of my life.
IG: 27:51
Even though it was not really the psychology, you know, direction that you-
BP: 27:59
envision of beginning.
IG: 28:00
Yea.,
BP: 28:00
That is right.
IG: 28:03
So, you know, there were women at Binghamton. [laughter] You know, did you date anybody?
BP: 28:19
Well, this is, yeah, this is, this is very important part of my history.
IG: 28:27
Yeah.
BP: 28:28
So, I remember walking along near Whitney in my freshman year, thinking, you know, I am really, really happy, as long as I do not think about girls like I must have had some fear, some insecurity, that-that was troubling me. But, I mean, I was basically a pretty happy person. There was something called "Winter Weekend."
IG: 29:08
Yeah, what was that?
BP: 29:09
It was something that I think the fraternities and the social clubs ran. It was the middle of the winter term, and it involved parties and stuff, and it was organized over- around the weekend, and people had dates for it. So, I decided I wanted to go to that. And I had been hanging around a few of people, and I asked one of the girls I was hanging out with to go. Her name was Mary Jean and so we went. had a pretty good time. I did not much, have much a dating life in high school, so I during that week. I made out for the first time. But at the end of the weekend, we were on the way back to the dorm, and I decided that was it. I did not really want to see her anymore.
IG: 29:09
You did not what.
BP: 29:12
Did not really want to see her anymore after that weekend. So, we get up to the door of the dorm, and before I say anything, she says, "Would like to have lunch tomorrow?" And I ended up saying, "Well, okay." And I ended up saying, "Well, okay," for the next six months-- always feeling like I did not really want to be in this relationship, but not knowing how to break it up.
IG: 30:41
Right.
BP: 30:43
And that lasted until, I guess it was trimester. So summer was in the end of June- was that that semester, that trimester, and then summer was July, August, September, October. So, I finally did say- she was from Buffalo, and I was from New York, so I finally did say at the end, "I do not think I want to see you when we get back."
IG: 31:07
That what
BP: 31:08
That when we get back, I do not think I want to continue dating, yeah, and she accepted it, but then over the summer, much to my surprise, to start to miss her, and when we got back, we sort of hung out for a little bit, and then we started going out again. But this time it was very different. I came, kind of became dependent on her.
IG: 31:33
Yeah.
BP: 31:34
And it did not really work well. And during this time, I find myself getting depressed. And so, this whole-- I think when I look back on it, one of the reasons I became depressed is that during that time, when I was with her, in the first semester, I was not really being myself, I was not being true to myself, and I kind of got out of sorts that way.
IG: 31:59
How? I mean, how did you it is a hard question, but I mean, how did you being yourself, meaning-meaning that you were not telling her what you felt
BP: 32:11
Right and sort of like being who I thought you wanted me to be.
IG: 32:16
Yeah.
BP: 32:16
Instead of being who I was,
IG: 32:17
I see, I see.
BP: 32:19
And I did not really date anybody else that seriously for the rest of the college.
IG: 32:24
Did you part as friends? Or did you never speak to her again, or when you finally parted company?
BP: 32:32
You mean in the sophomore year? It was somewhat acrimonious. I think, you know, I, I think we were civil to each other after that, but never close. And as far as you know, I dated here and there the rest of the time, but never really-
IG: 32:35
Yeah. Yeah.
BP: 32:59
-hooked up with anyone.
IG: 33:01
Do you think that she was very career oriented, or was she, your former- that first girlfriend? Was she looking for a husband?
BP: 33:13
[inaudible] yeah. I think she was looking for a husband.
IG: 33:19
Do you think that these were the expectations of young women at the time, even those who had gotten into Harpur College, or were they looking toward- well, I mean, you cannot say, you cannot generalize-
BP: 33:36
Yeah, I cannot generalize exactly.
IG: 33:39
But she was looking-
BP: 33:39
I think she was looking for a husband.
IG: 33:41
Yeah.
BP: 33:42
And I think that it was a time when expectations were changing for women.
IG: 33:46
Were changing.
BP: 33:47
You know-
IG: 33:49
Well, you mentioned that, you know, there was an expectation from your parents. That you would go on-
BP: 33:54
Right.
IG: 33:54
-with your studies, but your sisters could do anything that they liked.
BP: 33:54
Right.
IG: 33:54
So that -that-that is my answer, really.
BP: 33:54
Right. That is right.
IG: 33:56
At Harpur College, which is, which, I mean, had an excellent reputation, or, I mean, it had a reputation of being a very rigorous school. I do not want to put words into your mouth. [laughs]
BP: 34:18
No, it was yes, it was.
IG: 34:21
It was.
BP: 34:21
I mean, once my- one sister did not go to college.
IG: 34:25
Right.
BP: 34:26
And one sister went to college for one year and then met someone and got married.
IG: 34:31
Right.
BP: 34:32
But, you know, the women that were at Harpur College already-
IG: 34:36
Right.
BP: 34:37
I think we are a little more career origin.
IG: 34:39
A little more career origin, but not much.
BP: 34:42
Yeah, I think not. That is right, they still were kind of transitioning from looking for a husband to thinking, "Oh, maybe I can have my own career."
IG: 34:56
So how do you think- how did the transition manifest for women that you noticed during that time? Were they becoming- what more career oriented? Were they more, you know, did they, I mean, did kids have sexual relations at the time?
BP: 35:23
I would not know. [laughs]
IG: 35:24
You would not know. You would not know. You would not know. So, your-your-your buddies and you were not talking about that?
BP: 35:30
Oh well, yeah, I had one-one friend of mine definitely talked about his kind of conquests. And I think I had a roommate who had a girlfriend, and they were sleeping together. Oh, you know, it reminds me of the Rule of, you know, a book in the door-door had to be open the width of a book, yes, and one foot on the floor.
IG: 36:03
Yes-yes-yes. I have heard.
BP: 36:06
And-
IG: 36:06
So, did you witness that at all?
BP: 36:10
Well, we talked about those- Yeah. -those rules. But I-I mean, I never attempted to sleep with someone while I was in college. I see so I would not know. I never tried to bend those rules, but I do, I am sure that there were other my friends that did.
IG: 36:31
I see. So-so how did your girlfriend from that time, and does she have a name?
BP: 36:40
Mary Jean.
IG: 36:41
Mary Jean. How did your girlfriend and you spend time together?
BP: 36:48
Well, we would have almost every meal together.
IG: 36:50
Yeah.
BP: 36:52
And we would study together.
IG: 36:53
Right.
BP: 36:54
And, you know, we would make out.
IG: 36:57
Yeah.
BP: 36:58
Uh, and maybe occasionally see a movie if somebody had a car, or maybe if there was a movie shown on campus.
IG: 37:12
Did you mention Mary Jean to your parents? I mean, did you-
BP: 37:16
Oh yes.
IG: 37:17
Yes.
BP: 37:19
Mary Jane was not Jewish, and I did mention that I was going out with her, and again, my father was not happy.
IG: 37:36
Yeah.
BP: 37:36
Yeah, that was uh-
IG: 37:39
That might have had an influence.
BP: 37:42
Could have had an influence, yeah.
IG: 37:44
When you went home to- for the summers, what did you do? How would you spend your time?
BP: 37:48
I would get a job.
IG: 37:50
Yeah. Where would you work?
BP: 37:51
I mean, it was an advantage that it was a trimester with July, August, September and October, because I- you generally lied and said I was permanent. So let us see. In (19)64 I got a job at the New York World's Fair.
IG: 38:10
Oh, I remember that.
BP: 38:11
Yeah, and I had the most boring job in the world.
IG: 38:15
What did you do?
BP: 38:16
I was a Pinkerton Guard, and I was stationed between two escalators, and my job was to push a button if anything happened in emergency. So, the most interesting part of my day was when every once in a while, somebody asked me directions to go somewhere, but it was very pretty boring job.
IG: 38:37
What other, what other jobs did you have?
BP: 38:40
The next year, I worked in a purse factory. I was like stock boy, and I worked there for several months, and then when I told my boss that I was leaving, he said, "Oh, I am really sorry. I was about to promote you." So, they wanted me to stay, but they did not realize that I was a college boy.
IG: 39:04
I did not ask you an important question, why did you choose Binghamton to study?
BP: 39:12
Basically, it was my third choice. It was my [crosstalk]
IG: 39:15
What were your first two choices?
BP: 39:16
Cornell and University of Rochester. So, Cornell, I did not get into and Rochester, I was on the waiting list.
IG: 39:23
So, were these known as math schools?
BP: 39:28
No-
IG: 39:29
[crosstalk] programs?
BP: 39:29
They just were-
IG: 39:31
Well, I mean, Cornell is for everything.
BP: 39:33
Right-right, and, but I did know in my senior year in high school that I wanted to leave New York. I did not want to go to Brooklyn College. I did not want to stay at home, and so I figured out a way to pay for everything myself. So, I walked into the kitchen in my home to my parents and said, "These are the three schools I am applying to, Binghamton, Rochester, Cornell." I did not give them a choice of Brooklyn College.
IG: 39:50
That is fantastic.
BP: 40:00
I just knew I could pay for it. I got a regent scholarship that paid for tuition totally, which was all of $400 a trimester.
IG: 40:00
Yeah, times were different.
BP: 40:01
Right. Right. I got a federal loan that basically paid for my room and board at school, and I did summer work to pick up, make my expenses, so I really was not dependent on [crosstalk]
IG: 40:25
That is very enterprise. But what did they say anyway? I mean, What-what? I mean, you kind of put your foot down, and this is my-
BP: 40:36
They did not have much of a choice. They-they said, "Are you sure?"
IG: 40:42
What can they say?
BP: 40:48
But I was very glad I went to Binghamton.
IG: 40:53
So-so had you had your parents heard of Binghamton before you announced that you were, you know, this was your third choice.
BP: 41:07
I do not think they knew much about Binghamton Harpur College at the time.
IG: 41:13
Yeah, Harpur College.
BP: 41:14
Right. I do not think they knew much about it. But by the way, you know what? I tell people that I went to Harpur College- They would say, "Harvard?"
IG: 41:22
Yeah. Yeah.
BP: 41:22
I would say, "No-no, Harpur College, it is in Binghamton." And they would say, "Way down in Alabama?"
IG: 41:35
Yeah, I know I when I told my daughter I was accepting a job at Binghamton. She thought, "Birmingham?"
BP: 41:43
Yeah, yeah.
IG: 41:45
But Harpur College had a reputation, and before I mean, do you know that it was you know, what were its strengths? What-what-what did you know about it before you- why did you apply to Harpur College rather than to SUNY Buffalo, for example?
BP: 42:06
I think it had the reputation of being the best state school. I think that was the reputation, and I did well in high school.
IG: 42:15
Yeah.
BP: 42:16
And I was fairly sure I could get in, but I thought that I was worth the best state school.
IG: 42:25
Yeah.
BP: 42:26
You know.
IG: 42:28
Did you visit before- did you visit Harpur College before your acceptance or, I mean, did you first arrive to campus on the first day of school?
BP: 42:41
I do not remember visiting.
IG: 42:42
You do not remember visiting.
BP: 42:43
I think, I think I just [crosstalk]
IG: 42:44
You just went into it cold.
BP: 42:46
Yeah, I think I did.
IG: 42:48
And how did it strike you? I mean, you were a city boy. How did the country strike you? What did it look like?
BP: 42:58
Well, my, one of my memories of the first day of being there, my parents brought me up there, and I remember my parents leaving the dormitory, and I think I looked out the window and saw them, and they saw me as they were leaving. My father went. So, you know, they were, it was hard for them to-to-
IG: 43:34
Because you were a tight knit family?
BP: 43:36
Yeah.
IG: 43:37
Yeah.
BP: 43:39
And uh, but I think I adjusted pretty fast. And uh, hmm-
IG: 43:51
I mean, what? I mean, it is a country, it is fresh air, it is, I mean, it is-
BP: 43:57
Well.
IG: 43:58
-pretty, it was pretty rural at the time.
BP: 44:01
Yes, it was. It was not until I was at Binghamton before I had any understanding of why people took hikes-
IG: 44:09
Yeah.
BP: 44:09
-you know. But until then, I really just did not understand. Did not get it. But the friends that I made were from Buffalo.
IG: 44:18
Yeah.
BP: 44:19
And they had more of a non-city, um, feel a non-city. They understood what it was like to not be in a city, and so they kind of introduced me to walks in the country, but it was I had to get used to it, but I understood that I was in college and I was not in the city anymore. I was there to learn, and I think I adjusted pretty fast.
IG: 44:52
You adapted very quickly.
BP: 44:54
Yeah, and I liked my roommate, that was very important too. Sort of bond with my roommate.
IG: 45:02
Did you stay with the same roommate for four years?
BP: 45:05
No, I was with him for at least the first year, and possibly two years. Yeah, possibly two years that I was in a suite with several people.
IG: 45:21
With how many people?
BP: 45:23
I think probably four or five.
IG: 45:25
Yeah.
BP: 45:26
Yeah.
IG: 45:27
So, did you have your own kitchen? And-
BP: 45:30
Yes, I think so.
IG: 45:31
You think so. So, did that mean that somebody with a car went to town to buy groceries?
BP: 45:40
I am not going to be much help here.
IG: 45:41
Okay, you do not remember. Do you remember- but you-you would go to the cafeteria?
BP: 45:46
Yes, definitely.
IG: 45:47
So maybe there was not a kitchen?
BP: 45:49
Right. Could be. And I do remember liking hanging out in the student center.
IG: 45:55
At the Student Center?
BP: 45:56
Right.
IG: 45:57
And what- where was that, and what was that like?
BP: 46:02
That was by what we call the esplanade. Is it still the student center now? The student union. That is called the student union, right.
IG: 46:14
I see.
BP: 46:14
But we called it the student center. We would go down and get a snack.
IG: 46:19
Yeah.
BP: 46:20
Get a burger or something. And uh-
IG: 46:24
Did people, you know, I am just getting, you know- did you know- the outside time, the you know, the political climate, the issues of the day-
BP: 46:41
Yeah.
IG: 46:41
-did you discuss them?
BP: 46:44
Yes-yes.
IG: 46:44
So, what-what were some of the things that you were discussing-
BP: 46:47
Well, mainly the war.
IG: 46:48
The mainly the war.
BP: 46:49
Yeah. Now I remember being in the student center when the Six Day War in Israel broke out, but I know the timing is right, because I think that was in June (19)67 and I graduated in (19)67 and I must have graduated in- I do not know why I would have been there in June (19)67 but I remember-
IG: 47:27
Maybe for the graduation ceremony?
BP: 47:29
Could be, could be, but I remember feeling like I want to go over to Israel and fight. You know, I remember SDS.
IG: 47:35
Yeah. Right.
BP: 47:41
And-
IG: 47:42
But you were not part of it.
BP: 47:42
I was not part of that, and I was not as radical as that.
IG: 47:45
Yeah. Are any of your friends part of SDS?
BP: 47:50
Not I remember. No, I do not think so. Um-
IG: 48:00
Was there an anxiety about being drafted among your friends?
BP: 48:04
Yes, definitely.
IG: 48:07
Right. So, were a lot of your friends thinking of going on to graduate schools?
BP: 48:15
Uh huh? Definitely.
IG: 48:17
Yeah.
BP: 48:18
Definitely.
IG: 48:20
So, you know what- I am just wondering also the student composition were- you said you mentioned that, you know, there were students from Buffalo, but would you think that the majority were from New York City, Long Island?
BP: 48:37
And yes, I think the majority were from New York City, Long Island, definitely.
IG: 48:45
But you- did you gravitate to the New York City and Long Island kids, or to the Buffalo kids?
BP: 48:52
Well, my friends turned out to be from Buffalo.
IG: 48:56
Oh, that is just happened to be.
BP: 48:58
Yeah. I am not sure why.
IG: 49:00
Yeah.
BP: 49:01
They were in my dorm.
IG: 49:02
Yeah. Did you ever visit their family's house?
BP: 49:07
No.
IG: 49:09
Did anybody visit your family? Do you think?
BP: 49:13
No, I do not think so.
IG: 49:14
No. Well, do you remember any of the- how are we doing for time we still have it is, it is only 4:20.
BP: 49:28
Yeah, we are fine.
IG: 49:29
Rather, 4:20.
BP: 49:30
Yeah, we are fine.
IG: 49:31
Um, did your parents have any expectations of you going on to get a job after college or...
BP: 49:42
No, they wanted me to get a graduate degree.
IG: 49:45
A graduate degree.
BP: 49:46
Yeah.
IG: 49:49
So, did you get any direction from your advice- did you have a faculty advisor? Did you have a mentor who advised you about where to apply or you know, what was your interaction like with, sort of the academic community, I mean, with the faculty?
BP: 50:10
Oh, another faculty member that I remember-
IG: 50:13
Yeah.
BP: 50:14
-was Peter Donovick.
IG: 50:15
Yeah.
BP: 50:17
And I think he encouraged me to go to graduate school in physiological psychology. Now there was another faculty member, Dan Fallon, but I do not remember whether I came- I became, I became close with him, but I do not remember whether it was as an undergraduate or after I had come back and was a graduate- I was a laboratory assistant.
IG: 50:42
Yeah.
BP: 50:43
I am not sure which period.
IG: 50:45
But these three-faculty member, these three professors, had an impact.
BP: 50:50
Yes.
IG: 50:51
Did you ever stay in touch with them after graduating?
BP: 50:54
No.
IG: 50:55
No.
BP: 50:58
Jim- trying to remember whether-
IG: 51:04
What-what do you think you know? Why did they advise the schools that they did? I mean, what you said this, that one of the professors advised you to-
BP: 51:16
[crosstalk] to go on, to pursue-
IG: 51:17
To go on. Yeah. I mean, what do they think of your work?
BP: 51:22
I think they thought it was that I was had a lot of potential.
IG: 51:25
You had a lot of in-in research?
BP: 51:29
Right in research.
IG: 51:30
In psychological.
BP: 51:30
Right. Because that is what the track that I was on.
IG: 51:32
Yeah, I understand. And so, were there any small victories that you remember of as you know, a research assistant during those days. Where would you conduct the research?
BP: 51:49
Well, I did a senior project.
IG: 51:51
I see.
BP: 51:52
And that was, that was really uh-
IG: 51:55
What was a senior project?
BP: 51:57
I studied the circadian, circadian rhythms of rats. And it was an ambitious project.
IG: 52:06
Yeah.
BP: 52:08
What I did was I had rats in an activity wheel.
IG: 52:14
Right.
BP: 52:15
So, they could, they could step out from their cage and run in an activity wheel whenever they wanted.
IG: 52:20
Right.
BP: 52:20
And if you tracked the activity, you noticed-
IG: 52:25
Right.
BP: 52:25
-that they had more activity, I think during the-[inaudible] nocturnal or not.
IG: 52:33
Right.
BP: 52:34
But they might have been more active at night.
IG: 52:38
Right.
BP: 52:38
And less active during the day-
IG: 52:40
Yes.
BP: 52:42
-or and then I tried to manipulate the lighting.
IG: 52:44
Right.
BP: 52:45
So, I put the lights on when they were most active.
IG: 52:48
Right.
BP: 52:49
Took them off when they were least active.
IG: 52:51
Right.
BP: 52:51
And they gradually switched.
IG: 52:53
Yeah.
BP: 52:54
And I did that for quite a while.
IG: 52:55
Yeah.
BP: 52:56
And then I-I put the light on all the time-
IG: 53:01
Yeah.
BP: 53:02
-and I saw, I tried to see whether the activity would revert back to the original cycle.
IG: 53:07
Yeah.
BP: 53:08
And I think it did. And I wrote about that, and I defended the thesis-
IG: 53:09
It did.
BP: 53:13
-stuff like that.
IG: 53:13
Right.
BP: 53:13
Yeah, it was, it was.
IG: 53:13
Right.
BP: 53:14
It was very good research experience.
IG: 53:16
It was well received. Do you remember any of the accolades that you got from your faculty?
BP: 53:29
No.
IG: 53:30
You do not remember. So, when you went to the University of Rochester for your graduate degree, did you feel that Binghamton prepared you well?
BP: 53:41
I think it did, and I must have done well, because Rochester is an excellent program.
IG: 53:46
Yeah.
BP: 53:47
It is a complete Center for Brain research.
IG: 53:50
Right.
BP: 53:50
And if I had gotten a PhD, I would have taken neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, neurophysiology, neuropsychology and neurochemistry.
IG: 54:00
Right.
BP: 54:01
Which, I think I did take all those courses.
IG: 54:03
Right.
BP: 54:04
And I was- I felt like I was being held back emotionally for my tendency to be depressed from-
IG: 54:14
excuse me [inaudible]
BP: 54:16
A tendency to be depressed-
IG: 54:18
Yes.
BP: 54:18
-held me back emotionally from really doing my best intellectual work.
IG: 54:23
Right.
BP: 54:24
But that if that had not been there, Rochester would have been an excellent program for me to get a PhD.
IG: 54:32
Right.
BP: 54:33
And I had a friend who got there who got a PhD and then worked at the UCLA brain research and had a very successful career.
IG: 54:49
I am kind of taking it all in and uh-
BP: 54:54
But Binghamton definitely prepared me for it.
IG: 54:56
Yeah. Do you feel um, a greater affiliation for Binghamton or for Rochester?
BP: 55:06
Binghamton.
IG: 55:07
Binghamton. Why is that?
BP: 55:08
I spent more time there.
IG: 55:10
yeah.
BP: 55:11
It has been four years there.
IG: 55:12
Yeah.
BP: 55:13
I have, no I- there is, there is one friend from Rochester that I have kind of kept in touch with, but I have many more relationships from with Binghamton students. And there is just something about your undergraduate experience. There is more spirit there and more identification.
IG: 55:38
I absolutely agree. Yeah. Were there any, I mean, you had a very tight knit circle of friends, and at Binghamton, do you remember- and they were all- what, you know, white middle class-
BP: 55:57
Oh, yeah.
IG: 55:58
Were there any, you know, students of color? Were there any international students going to Binghamton to Harpur College at the time? Do you remember that?
BP: 56:10
I do not remember them.
IG: 56:12
So, it was pretty-
BP: 56:15
Pretty vanilla.
IG: 56:16
Pretty homogeneous.
BP: 56:17
Yeah.
IG: 56:18
Pretty vanilla.
BP: 56:19
Yeah.
IG: 56:24
You know, did you care about, did you read about- what did you think about, you know, civil rights movement that was kind of really sweeping through [crosstalk]
BP: 56:35
That is true. (19)64 is civil rights legislation.
IG: 56:38
Yeah. So, did you know about that? Did you kind of- were you aware of that or not really?
BP: 56:47
You know, I must have been, but I do not remember.
IG: 56:49
You do not remember.
BP: 56:50
I do not remember being aware of it, like I was aware of the war crosstalk]
IG: 56:53
Of the war because it affected you directly.
BP: 56:56
[crosstalk] yeah.
IG: 56:56
You know the war.
BP: 56:57
Yeah.
IG: 56:58
So how did you follow the events of the ward. Were you watching television? Where was the television at the Student Center?
BP: 57:08
I think there was a television in the lounge of the dorm.
IG: 57:12
Oh, I see, I see.
BP: 57:14
Because I remember watching Kennedy's funeral on that television.
IG: 57:17
That must have been a shocker.
BP: 57:18
Oh my gosh. It is one of those things where you never forget where you were.
IG: 57:23
Did you think that, you know what we were under threat, or, you know what did you think?
BP: 57:29
Oh, no, I thought it was just so very, very sad.
IG: 57:33
Yeah.
BP: 57:33
We loved Kennedy.
IG: 57:34
Yeah.
BP: 57:35
We just loved him.
IG: 57:36
Right.
BP: 57:37
And to have that taken out from under us was very sad, and his funeral was on my birthday.
IG: 57:44
Oh.
BP: 57:47
That was the worst birthday I have ever had.
IG: 57:49
Yeah.
BP: 57:52
So, I remember that very well. I remember Kennedy's assassination, and following-
IG: 57:58
Why did you love Kennedy?
BP: 58:00
He was- he had such a great sense of life, you know, and sense of humor. We loved his wit. We loved his press conferences, and we thought that he would- he had his heart was in the right place.
IG: 58:30
How do you mean?
BP: 58:36
I-I think he uh- I think I remember him doing things that made me feel like he would care about minorities. I do not remember exactly what he did, but I mean, probably Johnson did more for the civil rights movement, even Kennedy might have had power to do because Johnson was so good with Congress.
IG: 59:07
Right.
BP: 59:09
And one question that we always debated afterwards, after he was killed, and then later on-
IG: 59:16
With your fellow students?
BP: 59:17
Yeah.
IG: 59:18
Fellow, I mean, with your friends.
BP: 59:19
Right. Was- would Kennedy have dragged us into the war like Johnson did? And you know, our sense was that probably he would not have.
IG: 59:32
Yeah.
BP: 59:33
But who knows? We just do not know.
IG: 59:36
Right.
BP: 59:38
But the war is definitely what dominated our thinking [crosstalk] my thinking. I do not remember. I think I must have followed the civil rights march in (19)65 and Martin Luther King's famous speech, but I do not have as much of a recollection of that as I am the war.
IG: 1:00:01
Did you talk about politics at home at all? Was that something that was talked to the dinner table? What-what were your parents? Republican demo?
BP: 1:00:12
They were Democrat.
IG: 1:00:14
Definitely Democrat.
BP: 1:00:15
Yeah.
IG: 1:00:17
Yeah. So-
BP: 1:00:18
I do not think we talked too much about it, but they were definitely Democrats.
IG: 1:00:26
Well, you know, do you have any recollections more that you want to share with us about Harpur College and your experience and the impact that you had that it had on you rather.
BP: 1:00:44
Uh-huh, yeah.
IG: 1:00:52
What-what lessons did you learn from this time in your life? Maybe, as you put it.
BP: 1:01:09
I think somehow the whole intellectual atmosphere of college gave me a real conviction that it was important to be intellectually honest, to really study something and be able to and just learn enough about it to really have an informed opinion.
IG: 1:01:37
Just beautiful. Yeah.
BP: 1:01:41
Yeah. I mean-
IG: 1:01:42
And this was a principle that guided you through your life.
BP: 1:01:51
Right.
IG: 1:01:53
Did you impart this to your students when you were teaching?
BP: 1:01:57
I tried to.
IG: 1:01:59
What did you tell them? How did you translate that into terms that they could understand?
BP: 1:02:06
Well, I was a math teacher.
IG: 1:02:08
Yeah.
BP: 1:02:09
And I would make- I would tell them, you know, do not take what I am saying just because I am saying it. Really try to understand where this rule or this law comes from. Make it your own. You know, nothing is true just because I am saying it. It all comes from logic and reasoning. And try to reason it out for yourself so that you understand it like I understand it.
IG: 1:02:43
So are there any you know and you think that that you know Binghamton-
BP: 1:02:54
Oh, yeah.
IG: 1:02:56
-formed you in that way to be intellectually honest,
BP: 1:03:02
Right. And I mean, I felt like my opinion about the Vietnam War was the most reasoned and intellectually honest opinion I have had almost about almost anything, because I read a whole book on it. I really learned about it, but where-where it started, and who was involved, and when I decided that I was against the war, I just felt like I had really-really good intellectual reasons for-for being against the war.
IG: 1:03:37
I really like that. Are there any concluding remarks, as you have?
BP: 1:03:53
I think Binghamton has a great reputation, and so I am very proud to be a graduate. Um-
IG: 1:04:06
What would you say to future students who are listening or to this recording 10-20, years down the line? What would you say to them?
BP: 1:04:18
I would say that going to Binghamton gives you an opportunity to dive into a great intellectual atmosphere and really exercise your mind and learn all kinds of things and make the most of the opportunity.
IG: 1:04:37
I think that is wonderful. Thank you so much.
(End of Interview)
Date of Interview
2018-01-03
Interviewer
Irene Gashurov
Year of Graduation
1967
Interviewee
Barry Polsky
Biographical Text
Barry graduated with a degree in Psychology from Harpur. His career spanned different professions. He worked as researcher for a pharmaceutical firm; as a software engineer after earning a graduate degree in computer science. He drove a cab and before retirement worked as a high school math teacher.
Interview Format
Audio
Subject LCSH
Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in secondary education; Harpur College – Alumni living in the Boston area
Rights Statement
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Keywords
Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in secondary education; Harpur College – Alumni living in the Boston area
Files
Citation
“Interview with Barry Polsky,” Digital Collections, accessed June 27, 2025, https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/967.
