Interview with M. David Graubard

Interview with M. David Graubard

Graubard, M. David ; Gashurov, Irene

Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City

David was an attorney at Kera & Graubard, specializing in bankruptcy, insolvency, Chapter 11, and debtor and creditor rights. He grew up in Monticello, New York.

2018-02-19

In Copyright

David Graubard.mp3

2018-02-19

Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni

50:12 minutes

Alumni Interviews
Interview with: David Graubard
Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov
Transcriber: Oral History Lab
Date of interview: 19 February 2018
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(Start of Interview)

DG: 00:01
And now it is recording.

IG: 00:02
Oh, it is recording. Fantastic-fantastic.

DG: 00:05
Okay.

IG: 00:07
So finally, sorry about that. [laughs] Okay, so um, for the purposes of this interview um, please state your name, your age and where we are and what we are doing.

DG: 00:23
Sure. I am David Graubard, 73 years old, in my office at 7118 Main Street in Flushing, New York. 11367, we are here to work on an all an oral history of the 1960s.

IG: 00:38
Yes.

DG: 00:40
Right?

IG: 00:40
Yes.

DG: 00:41
Okay.

IG: 00:41
Okay, so please tell me, David, where you grew up? Where were you born?

DG: 00:47
Born and grew up in Monticello, New York.

IG: 00:48
Oh. Um-

DG: 00:49
Halfway between Binghamton and New York.

IG: 00:54
Yes, yes. I know where it is exactly. So, who were your parents are they-

DG: 01:01
My parents were-

IG: 01:02
Where did they come from?

DG: 01:04
They- my- they were both- I went to the same high school that my both my parents went to.

IG: 01:09
Oh, really in Monticello?

DG: 01:10
In Monticello. Most of them were raised in Monticello. Cannot say born, but they were raised in months in the Monticello area. My mother was raised in the formative years in White Lake, New York, my father from Monticello itself.

IG: 01:25
And were they, you know, second, first, third generation Americans?

DG: 01:33
My father was a second generation American. Actually, were first generation American. He was born in the Bronx. My grandparents were born overseas. My mother was actually born overseas. She came very as a one-year-old.

IG: 01:48
May I ask, Eastern Europe, or Germany or

DG: 01:52
Eastern Europe. My mother was born in a place called Barandovich, which was in Poland, White Russia depends upon the year.

IG: 02:00
Right.

DG: 02:00
And my father's family came from Romania.

IG: 02:06
Very interesting. So um, did your parents go to college?

DG: 02:13
No.

IG: 02:13
What was their what was their occupation?

DG: 02:16
My father was a salesman. He grew up- interesting. He wanted to go to college to become an accountant. And my grandfather, may he rest in peace, said, you have the family business to go into, which was a wholesale food line and in Monticello. And that is what he did. And my mother was a homemaker and a good one at that, and also bookkeeper in my father's business. And she came, later on, she came a dental assistant, and she works-

IG: 02:42
Also, in Monticello. They stayed there?

DG: 02:43
Oh, yeah.

IG: 02:44
Okay, so were- what were their expectations for you about going on to-

DG: 02:51
They very much wanted. Heard their children to go to college. An older brother who went to Ithaca college on a dramatic scholarship. He did not graduate, but he got into the computer business way back when, when it was in the early (19)60s, when the late (19)60s, when it was first coming into vogue. He worked for Bank of America. And my sister graduated, graduated from [inaudible] college. And my uncle, may he rest in peace, was a lawyer, and they wanted to- I wanted to be a lawyer like he was.

IG: 03:22
The uncle was in Monticello or in New York City?

DG: 03:25
No-no, in New York City.

IG: 03:27
So, you had frequent contact with New York City.

DG: 03:32
Oh, yeah, yes.

IG: 03:32
So, education was valued in your family.

DG: 03:36
Very much so.

IG: 03:37
So, what were your reasons for going to Harpur rather than to City College or, you know, NYU-

DG: 03:44
Uh, we had Harpur was I got a state scholarship, which covered the tuition. It was, you know, within a two-hour drive from my home in Monticello. That was it, basically.

IG: 03:58
But why Harpur College rather than Albany or Buffalo?

DG: 04:03
Harpur has a very, very good reputation, excellent reputation, and guys always fooled around you. If you slur that, people think you said Harvard, but [crosstalk] [laughter]

IG: 04:18
[crosstalk] That is very funny. [crosstalk]

DG: 04:21
Yes, that was really funny.

IG: 04:24
So-so it had- and when did you graduate? Just for the purpose of the interview.

DG: 04:29
1966.

IG: 04:31
In 1966. So, the reputation of the College was established in the early (19)60s, or was it just-

DG: 04:40
Very much so.

IG: 04:41
Very much so.

DG: 04:42
It was, it was, it was a pearl of the state system.

IG: 04:44
And what was it known for Harpur College, before you went there? What-what-what-what did people say about it? It was a pearl of the state system.

DG: 04:55
You got a good education.

IG: 04:57
You got a good education. Did any of your friends from Monticello go there? Or did anybody that you know-

DG: 05:04
Yes.

IG: 05:05
-from New York City go there?

DG: 05:06
Yes.

IG: 05:06
So, you had friends who went there.

DG: 05:07
Yes. I had a classmate, Robert Ethel, who went there. We roomed together-

IG: 05:11
Uh huh.

DG: 05:11
-for a year.

IG: 05:12
from Monticello.

DG: 05:13
Yes.

IG: 05:13
Okay, good. So, when you first-

DG: 05:15
[crosstalk] three rooms, we were two of the three.

IG: 05:18
Oh. So-so when you first arrived to Binghamton, what was your impression that was there such a dramatic difference between Monticello and Binghamton?

DG: 05:30
Well, now this, Binghamton was a city. Was still small townish.

IG: 05:34
Yeah.

DG: 05:35
But the college itself was off, you know, was investor offset, not offset, set off the highway, and it was a unit by itself. It was not within the city like you had NYU in the city. Was part of the New York City.

IG: 05:49
Yes.

DG: 05:49
This was a totally, total unit by itself.

IG: 05:52
Yeah.

DG: 05:53
That was a beautiful place.

IG: 05:55
It was a beautiful place. Um, and so maybe, what was your first impression when you arrived there? Do you remember what it looked like to you?

DG: 06:06
Remember it looked like. Yes.

IG: 06:08
Yeah. So, describe that a little bit to us.

DG: 06:10
[inaudible] came in there was the-the quad that they called it because they had the student center was in one place, and the science of science labs were off to the science was off to the right, as you looked at it. And then they had the- there was a there was a roadway that the left were all the dormitories and the luncheon hall. That is what I remember about the quad. And it had that walkway on top then, until you came down into the quad.

DG: 06:44
So, it struck you as a beautiful place.

DG: 06:49
Yes, physically, very beautiful.

IG: 06:52
So um, just tell us you know about your early experience of the academics there. Did that make an impression on you?

DG: 07:05
I think academics were very good.

IG: 07:07
Very good. So, tell us a little bit more elaborate on that. What classes do you remember? Um-

DG: 07:14
I can tell you. I will give you one, one thing that stands out in my mind. Okay, we took Spanish. Those who took- I took Spanish were the ones Spanish I and II, and there was a fellow there. I will not use a name, but he had, apparently, this is his third or fourth time taking this Spanish class, and he needed it to graduate. And he was a senior.

IG: 07:35
Yeah.

DG: 07:36
-and the professor, doctor, if I remember his name. I could picture his face. Just cannot remember his name. He had--called Rahman this on this, this senior, and when he-he we saw the test booklet of this particular student on this, on his desk after the after the exams, and it was a D with 19 minuses. And I do not think he counted minuses. I think he just gave him a D and then put the string of minuses so they could graduate.

IG: 08:14
So, it was a generous place.

DG: 08:16
Yeah, it was.

IG: 08:17
It was academically a generous place. But it was-

DG: 08:19
I mean, that is it was this particular thing, you know, I remember we had Melvin Shefttz. We had- was a very-very tough-tough history teacher, but it was very good.

IG: 08:31
American history?

DG: 08:33
No, world history.

IG: 08:34
World history.

DG: 08:35
World history and he gave me back a paper, and I remember it was I am sure it was a B minus or B plus. But he said to me, the comment was, you handled some very difficult material quite well, something along those lines. Think I still have that paper. I kept two or three to my papers that were interesting.

IG: 08:58
Was that on your freshman or what-

DG: 09:00
Freshman year.

IG: 09:01
Freshman year, so you were encouraged in your academic.

DG: 09:05
Yes, yeah.

IG: 09:05
Did you know what you wanted to study?

DG: 09:09
Yeah, I know I wanted to study--I loved American history.

IG: 09:12
Yes.

DG: 09:12
And I came to the point where I had to decide whether to do graduate work in American history or go to law school. I chose going to law school, which I probably regretted many years later. I really loved American history and, but I thought, but then, after my first year, they went to the trimester system. So, we were-

IG: 09:30
After your first year.

DG: 09:31
Yeah, after first year. So, we were a little thrown off on calendar wise, but nevertheless, we completed our academic studies within the trimester system.

IG: 09:42
So um, just tell me a little- let us stay on the topic of academics and just tell us more about the faculty that made an impression on you, on your fellow classmates.

DG: 09:55
Well, for American history, we had, we had one professor who took several times, whose name escapes me now, but yeah, that was the days of when you did your papers. He insisted that footnotes at the bottom of each page, and you had [inaudible] and any student because I typed the type, typing, I got back a paper from him in colonial history, and there was an A and some of the papers were wrinkled, and the only comment he made was, my apologies for the tea stains on your paper.

IG: 10:28
Oh.

DG: 10:28
I still have that one.

IG: 10:31
Yeah, you still have that one.

DG: 10:32
I still have that one. And, but I had a friend who was American, who was a history who was a history major, and he managed to avoid taking that professor, I remember, but it was interesting because he did. He- because that professor took- did the period histories mainly colonial and-and civil war, but he [inaudible]

IG: 10:56
So, did you find the classes stimulating?

DG: 11:01
Yes, yeah [crosstalk]

IG: 11:02
You have discussions?

DG: 11:03
I think the class were very good. And I remember it took- I had for history [inaudible] I had Professor, Colonel House [Albert House]. I remember that-that. And one thing he taught me, he says, he says, 'When you are middle of a project and you have to go to supper, or you are going to lunch or you have to do something else," he says, "Do not say, in your mind, wait until I get the end of something. Stop where you are. It will be much easier to pick it up and remember where you are we were from that point and go forward if you middle of something." And I have used that- I have used that quite-quite successfully in my professional career. You do legal research when they would have to go somewhere, stop in the middle of something. It is easier to pick up.

IG: 11:44
It is easier to pick up than-

DG: 11:46
Start and then stop and going to [crosstalk]

IG: 11:48
It down to some symbol conclusion, or?

DG: 11:52
Let us say, at the end attempt in the middle of a case, reading something. And instead of going to the end of the case, if I had to, have to go somewhere. I will stop there. I will come back, come back to it. I am coming back in the middle of something. It is much easier to pick up than they have said, "Oh, at the end of that case-" [crosstalk]

IG: 12:08
How do you remember that where you left off? [crosstalk] Okay, that is very easy. Um, so describe your classmates. Where do you think that the majority, I know that the majority were from Long Island and New York City, and so who were, who were your friends at Harpur? Did you gravitate more to the people from New York City or from upstate? Did it make a difference?

DG: 12:39
Well, I was, I was a member of the Adelphi men's club, so I had friends there.

IG: 12:44
Yeah.

DG: 12:44
Where I would say, mostly from the city, but there were from upstate, upstate as well. Not as many, but.

IG: 12:52
Not as many. Do you, do you- did you feel any cultural differences because you were really straddling [crosstalk]

DG: 13:01
Guys told me, "Graubard, we really consider you [inaudible] city guy."

IG: 13:05
Yeah, because-

DG: 13:07
I spent a lot of time in the city.

DG: 13:09
My grandparents lived in Crown Heights, spent a lot of time as children.

IG: 13:12
Exactly.

IG: 13:12
So-so you were really comfortable in both cultures.

DG: 13:16
Yeah.

IG: 13:16
Do you feel that there were cultural differences between the- you know, students from the New York metro area versus the upstate students?

DG: 13:27
[crosstalk] differences there were.

IG: 13:29
And were these differences bridged, you know and-

DG: 13:32
Yeah, I think there were guys who, guys who started, you know, going-going-going out with girls who had-had friends in, in the social clubs there.

IG: 13:41
Yeah.

DG: 13:42
That the-the Upstate downstate did not.

IG: 13:44
Right. So, what did you do in this Adelphi club? What did you-

DG: 13:48
It is just a matter of guys, yeah, they had social clubs there because they did not allow fraternities-

IG: 13:55
Yeah.

DG: 13:55
So, they allowed social clubs. So, it was-

IG: 14:01
What did you do?

DG: 14:03
I just had friends there. But not that- to me it was not a big deal.

IG: 14:07
It was not a big deal. Where did you meet? At the Student Union?

DG: 14:11
In the Student Union.

IG: 14:14
So, who were your, you know this, this was a time of the, you know, the beginning of great change in America. And, you know, how did you really, how alive were you to the events outside of [crosstalk] So tell us about that.

DG: 14:38
Well, being of draft age. It was Vietnam War. I remember at one point they offered they offered some in the geology department. They offered a course, a new course, aerial photography, which nobody wanted to take. They wanted to have it on their record- the draft board.

IG: 14:57
That is very interesting.

DG: 14:58
Yeah, I remember it, specifically.

IG: 15:01
So, did you feel that the faculty sort of encouraged, or did it protect its students? Do you feel against being drafted to-

DG: 15:13
I think there was one professor I remember who was willing to give, who's suddenly became more lenient with giving out A's. I think I remember that.

IG: 15:26
Yeah.

DG: 15:26
One-one particular problem, his name. I remember who he was, but I remember some discussion on that-that he was and that was to keep-keep students in school.

IG: 15:37
Yeah, so-so. Oh, um, you know, so-so there was this encourage, there was, you know, a desire to protect, maybe this [crosstalk]

DG: 15:50
I think [crosstalk] from that one professor.

IG: 15:53
From that one professor. Did you feel that a lot of your classmates had the intention of going on with their study to avoid the war or?

DG: 16:04
No-no, I think it was an academic- it was a state school was an academic place, so that most people intended to go on to further professional studies.

IG: 16:13
Anyway.

DG: 16:14
Yeah.

IG: 16:14
Anyway.

DG: 16:15
Yes.

IG: 16:17
So, when you discuss the Vietnam War with your friends, what kind of things did you say, apart from being afraid of-

DG: 16:24
You know, the most thing, it is terrible- the most thing I can remember is, you know, guys making comments like, "Okay, so I will take my master’s at Ho Chi Minh, university," or "University of Phnom Penh, " "Are you going next year to University of Phnom Penh? It became, not the joke, but-

IG: 16:46
Yeah.

DG: 16:47
-it was one way to alleviate the seriousness of the situation.

IG: 16:51
What other ways did you alleviate the seriousness of the situation?

DG: 16:54
I do not think there was any other way. I mean, I guess I was a little had a little less tension because my where I lived, there were a lot of guys who came out of high school and volunteered so that the quotas and my draft board were-were-were-were were filled up. They protected me a little bit more.

IG: 17:17
Yeah. So, you know, but you do not remember any political discussions. Did you- do you remember whether, you know-

DG: 17:29
Oh, listen, there were, there were a lot of, there was a lot, there were a lot of peaceniks, yeah, there were a lot of peaceniks on the campus. A lot of the peaceniks on the campus, you know, and they, and they had made banners, and they had sat ins and demonstrations.

IG: 17:43
Tell me a little bit about that.

DG: 17:45
Against-against the war.

IG: 17:47
Yeah. So where did they sit in and do they go?

DG: 17:51
They would have us not, not to obstruct. But you know, they were demonstration in around the campus.

IG: 17:57
Around the campus, around the campus, and was this covered by the student papers or by local papers?

DG: 18:06
Yeah-yeah. and what about the [crosstalk] of this covered by students, certainly by student papers.

IG: 18:10
Did anybody march on Washington or-

DG: 18:13
I think there were people.

IG: 18:15
There were. So, did you participate in any of this?

DG: 18:19
No.

IG: 18:21
No. Why not?

DG: 18:24
Because I was crazy. It was not for the war, but it certainly was. I thought it was something that unfortunately had to be done. It is unfortunate we had to get that with the way we got into it, with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and-

IG: 18:35
Right.

DG: 18:36
They expanded it.

DG: 18:37
And that it turned to be a bog. It was me, a bogged down affair.

IG: 18:37
Right.

DG: 18:42
But it was, it was a sad situation, but, yeah, I guess I believed in the government and-and that is the thing that would was not from Harpur, but the thing that affected me most was at home. There was a fellow at the end of my block who wins in the army, and he came back, who was a changed person, and he would not go anywhere where his back was not against the wall. Or if he went into the restaurant, he made sure that he sat in a booth with his back again, and he was always protecting his back.

IG: 19:15
You knew him after the war. Or when did he come back?

DG: 19:19
He was younger than me, but I saw, I saw.

IG: 19:22
What, when? During your college years.

DG: 19:24
Yeah-yeah.

IG: 19:25
What kind of impact did that have on you?

DG: 19:28
It just brought home the reality of the-the unfortunate consequences of the war.

IG: 19:40
Of the war. But it did not change your mind about America's involvement in the war.

DG: 19:44
Not too much. I thought it was, I feel it was sad the way they ended, you know, that they could not come out, that they got bogged down and they could not it was, it was, it was, to me, it ended to be a useless event.

IG: 19:58
A useless war.

DG: 20:00
A useless war.

IG: 20:01
But when did you realize that it was a useless?

DG: 20:04
Halfway through.

IG: 20:05
Halfway through. So, what year? Tell- remind me, were you in college or?

DG: 20:12
I might have been in law school.

IG: 20:13
In law school. Where did you go to law school?

DG: 20:16
George Washington University Law school.

IG: 20:18
So, and was that right after graduating from Harpur?

DG: 20:23
Yes.

IG: 20:24
So, what- how did you decide on that? Did you have encouragement from your direction- from your professors, or who advised you?

DG: 20:33
No-no, I- we had to go to GW or?

IG: 20:33
Yeah.

DG: 20:35
Well, I applied to, I think eight law schools, got into four of them. I thought GW was the best.

IG: 20:42
I see. I see. Did you have guidance from your professors or not much?

DG: 20:47
I do not think much.

IG: 20:53
What other courses did you take? You taught you took history courses, you know-

DG: 20:59
Social science.

IG: 20:59
-social studies, science.

DG: 21:03
The one required science course, and then never walked into the science building after that.

IG: 21:12
Any literature or language courses?

DG: 21:15
English, literature, I remember a language of Spanish. I took two courses in Spanish.

IG: 21:20
Do you feel that-

DG: 21:21
And also, they introduced- Dr. Levin started a Hebrew course and Arabic course. It took Hebrew courses.

IG: 21:29
When was it- there was a Semitic languages department.

DG: 21:34
He started it.

IG: 21:35
He started it. Uh-

DG: 21:38
A language lab that they tested. And [crosstalk]

IG: 21:44
I remember language lab.

DG: 21:45
-tested with Dr. Levin. We took it seriously. Everyone else, it was a joke.

IG: 21:51
Do you feel that you got a well-rounded education, or was there something lacking?

DG: 21:56
No well rounded.

IG: 21:59
How did that influence the future of your life, of your intellectual career?

DG: 22:05
It broadened my horizons on how to approach things.

IG: 22:13
Okay, so you know, how do you think- well, how do you think that Harper prepared you for your future career?

DG: 22:22
A good academic basis.

IG: 22:25
Uh, huh. Okay. So, we talked a little bit about the Vietnam War, and we talked a little bit about your involvement. You were not involved in any student activism?

DG: 22:41
No.

IG: 22:41
Really. Um, but around you, was there anything- what you know were, was there student activism about, you know, the civil rights movement? That was-

DG: 22:53
Yeah, they, yeah, they had a [crosstalk] The Civil Rights was big at the time, and there was I mean, there were people who were active, who were active in the civil rights movement, I think.

IG: 23:10
And how did that manifest? Was it on campus, or did they go to Washington?

DG: 23:15
Both-both. I think, I think some guys might have gotten involved in the South. I am not sure. But, I mean, they had clubs, they had groups like that, that were [crosstalk]

IG: 23:17
Was this sort of, you know, part of the conversation even, did it reach your circles?

DG: 23:31
I do not think so.

IG: 23:32
No, not so much. Were there any students of, you know, who were not from New York City and essentially white middle class, you know or upstate. Were there any people, any students of color or international?

DG: 23:48
Yes.

IG: 23:49
At the time?

DG: 23:50
Yes.

IG: 23:50
You remember?

DG: 23:52
I remember one fellow from Nairobi, [hos phone rings] and he lost his-his hat in the winter. [he is talking on the phone] Hello. Yeah, okay, I am in the meeting now on and then have to go Lauren. So, I will be back at about 11:45 but then I have [inaudible] with my grandson, so I will have to speak to you about, you know, 12:30 or so. Okay, all right, okay, thanks. Bye. Bye.

IG: 24:27
Okay-okay, so we were talking about a student from Nairobi.

DG: 24:33
Yes, he was a short fellow, and he lost his-his hat. He had a hat with flaps, and I remember he drew a picture of it; he put his name underneath it, and he put lost, and he put it on the board.

IG: 24:43
Was it ever found?

DG: 24:48
So, I remember seeing it on the board

IG: 24:51
Was-was, you know, you-you had traveled to New York City a lot. So, you know, seeing people of international, of different backgrounds [crosstalk]

DG: 25:01
-was that much so also.

IG: 25:03
You had that in Monticello, because Monticello was a summer resort, right?

DG: 25:08
Summer resort, a lot of transients came through the and that was they opened up the racetrack, also [crosstalk]

IG: 25:14
I see, I see. So-so that was not- um, but there were not any international or students of, you know, color, any Hispanic students that you remember?

DG: 25:28
[inaudible]

IG: 25:29
Yeah, no-no, not really.

DG: 25:32
Hispanic?

IG: 25:33
Hispanic, Black.

DG: 25:37
Black, a few, a few.

IG: 25:38
A few.

DG: 25:38
Yeah.

IG: 25:39
Yeah.

DG: 25:40
But it is [inaudible] than I do not remember.

IG: 25:43
No, okay, so did they, did they- did you have, you know, occasions to sort of mix as a larger group, or did you just stay in the class, you know.

DG: 25:57
In the classes, and in the and in the student-student lounge, the cafeteria, not the dining hall, but the cafeteria in the in the Student Union. People are always getting together.

IG: 26:12
How about, you know, women's rights, that probably was too early, [crosstalk] right? Do you remember that expectations for women at Harpur were different than they were for men? Were um-

DG: 26:31
Nothing, no, nothing. I recall.

IG: 26:32
Not that they were, you know, treated differently, necessarily, but were the women on campus? Did they aspire to the same sort of, you know, careers that-

DG: 26:43
I think there was [inaudible]. I think there was no difference.

IG: 26:46
No difference.

DG: 26:47
There were a lot, here were a lot of women there. They were aspiring to the same thing the men were [crosstalk]

IG: 26:47
They wanted to become lawyer [crosstalk]

DG: 26:49
-education, yes, [inaudible] education. And professionals, yeah.

IG: 26:57
And professionals. Okay, so, you know, tell us a little bit about your free time, free time on campus was- do you think that Harpur was a party school?

DG: 27:11
I would not say it was a party- no, not a party school. I mean, there were, you know, the guys in geology, there was always a trip, a field trip.

IG: 27:23
Right.

DG: 27:24
You know and that was a that was always a big joke, because, you know, guys were buying beer, and that was always looked at as a as a fun thing to do, as opposed to an educational trip.

IG: 27:33
Right. But you did not, you know, I mean, how did you spend your time socializing? You know, were there- did you just keep to your group of boys?

DG: 27:45
They had- there were social events on campus.

IG: 27:49
Like what? Describe for-

DG: 27:52
I think, full weekend, spring weekend, [crosstalk]

IG: 27:55
Yeah. So, what happened? I, you know, tell us.

DG: 27:59
I was it was not I was not a big social guy.

IG: 28:02
You were not a big- so you never attended any social events.

DG: 28:05
I cannot remember most of what they were. But things changed at the end too. Trimester had a big effect on some of this stuff, I thin.,

IG: 28:13
Tell us about that.

DG: 28:14
Well, through the calendars of Harpur were off the calendars of other college.,

IG: 28:19
Right.

DG: 28:20
So, people who would want to go somewhere else, you know, find it difficult to synchronize, except-except for Thanksgiving. And for instance, we have right and then we weekend, those were the same all over.

IG: 28:32
So-so these the trimester had a disruptive effect on your social life.

DG: 28:37
I mean, when you if you had to interact with people, friends at other schools, in that in that manner.

IG: 28:42
I see, I see.

DG: 28:43
Internally, it was, you know, there was no difference.

IG: 28:46
So, you know, after studying, did you spend time in your dorm room, or did you go to student union? Where would you spend your free time, even in your first year, you know.

DG: 29:02
[inaudible] mostly just, I think, just staying the room sang about hanging around the student union.

IG: 29:08
Did you date girls?

DG: 29:10
Yes.

IG: 29:10
Yeah. So, tell us, tell us, where would you go on these dates? Did you have a car?

DG: 29:15
No, oh, I not, no, not the first year. Wait a minute. No, not the first I had the older Amber. I do not remember if I had that the first year.

IG: 29:30
Well, maybe the second year you had a car. So-so, okay, so where would you go with your dates?

DG: 29:37
There were not a lot of them.

IG: 29:38
Yeah. laughs]

DG: 29:39
For sure. That is for sure. There were not a lot of them. There were movies in Binghamton, Vestal.

IG: 29:46
Yeah. So, you would go to a movie. Were there any cafeterias or restaurants that you would go to afterwards? Just to the movies?

DG: 29:54
I did not do a lot of dating there. Anything was mostly geared towards, if the- towards events on campus [crosstalk] weekend.

IG: 30:03
So, there were events on campus for students, like the whole, you know, I mean, but that is just once a year, right?

DG: 30:10
Yeah, yeah.

IG: 30:15
Were you were- what about the curfews? You know, a lot It has been said about the curfews for girls.

DG: 30:23
You tell people, these days, students these days, you know, tell, I have. Tell my-my granddaughter is of college age now, and we talked about my-my wife tells she went to Stonehill College. And every single school in the country had curfews for women. You know, you said that you said it to girls now, and they look like you are crazy.

IG: 30:46
Yeah, and the curfews were earlier than curfews for-

DG: 30:50
Yeah, curfews were, I do not know if the men had curfews. I think that was when upon the contention. But I think the girl, I think the girls like the curfews. I really do, I think, because, again, it may, it gave them an excuse for being, being.

IG: 31:10
They liked it.

DG: 31:11
I think the girls liked it.

IG: 31:16
That is very interesting, actually.

DG: 31:18
During the week there was, I forgot what was, it was eight o'clock in the weekend, I think was 11 o'clock, maybe midnight.

IG: 31:26
Would you go? How frequently did you go home during the semester?

DG: 31:31
I went home for the Jewish holidays. I went home for if something happened. It was occurred in the family, a family event, it was easy to get home. So of course, before all the regular recognized weekend, holiday period.,

IG: 31:47
Right. Did you have anything like Hillel on campus?

DG: 31:51
There was, there was a Hillel, yes, there was a Hillel. And I was a member of the Hillel and that was not, there was not a religious aspect to it. There was more social at that point.

IG: 32:08
So, you know, where during the trimester period you had, you know, big breaks in the summertime, did you work?

DG: 32:18
Yes.

IG: 32:19
Did you pay for your school.

DG: 32:21
Yes.

IG: 32:21
Yourself. That is very impressive. So, what type of jobs did you have during this summer? And where were these jobs?

DG: 32:28
Well, for two summers, I worked, I drove a bread truck for stomas bread, which is a bread company in the city, and in the summer there a lot of their customer base moved to the mountains. So, they had five routes in the mountains of two summers, I drove there. Oh, and then they worked in the men's store in Monticello, Jack brands men. So, he had the, he had the men's store there, and then the men's store at the Concord Hotel. Oh, so I worked in the two summers. I worked at the in the men's store in Monticello.

IG: 33:10
Have you stayed in touch with any of your classmates from Harpur?

DG: 33:17
Yes, one, particularly Martin Kera and you know, I became, became law partners after several years.

IG: 33:22
Oh, wow.

DG: 33:23
And to this day, to this day, we are in touch because we still have a common business interest.

IG: 33:30
That is right, that is right. I think I reached out to him as well. So, were there any faculty that you stayed in touch with?

IG: 33:40
How do you think your fellow classmates would remember you from that period? What would they how would they describe you?

DG: 33:40
No.

DG: 33:54
The Upstate Jewish boy, I guess you know.

IG: 34:02
What does that mean, what does that mean?

DG: 34:06
I was upstate, you know, came from Monticello. A lot of them knew Monticello had been up there in the mountains for the summers, worked in the summers.

IG: 34:15
Okay, so that is one description. But would they have said that you are industrious, that you are funny, that you are the class clown. What? How [crosstalk]

DG: 34:23
I think it is just maybe a nice guy.

IG: 34:25
A nice guy.

DG: 34:26
Always help, trying to help people.

IG: 34:31
Any-any stories about how you help your classmates?

DG: 34:33
One-one in particular, I do remember, and I tell my wife [crosstalk] there were guys who took, who would not take a Tuesday night class. In this in the in the spring, in the autumn semester, because they did not want that. They wanted to leave early for Thanksgiving vacation. I had a Tuesday night class, and I had an old Rambler, 1962 Rambler had to push button drive. And this was my-my, probably my sophomore year, I think. And you know these people around who would give rides home, and it was a bitterly-bitterly cold night, really cold. There was snow on the ground, and it was very-very cold by wind chill was probably close to zero, very cool. And I- the girl Beth, I forgot her last names. [inaudible] cut the back road. She was [inaudible] arriving. The [inaudible] was feeling a ride. We had a full car, I think Irene and a young couple with a baby who were going to Newburgh, so the car was full, and it was freezing cold, and it took a long time I let the car warm up even before I would let that baby in the car. So, it took a while, but we packed in. We all came to my house, and then they made calls as to where there were no cell phones in those days, as to people really picked them up at particular times. And my parents made sure they had something hot to drink, something to eat, until they all got picked up from where we were.

IG: 34:34
That is very nice. So, um-

DG: 35:20
Oh, one other time.

IG: 35:48
Yes please.

DG: 35:51
[crosstalk] Ronald Nathan, he was okay, and he called me in a panic that he-he had to do, finish off his social- a paper for a course, and he let it go to the last minute. "What should he do?" So, I typed with, if he, if he, if he wrote it out, could I type it right? I said, "I will be over in the minute." I was over this room with my typewriter. I sat down, I looked him and said, "Talk." He talked his paper. I said, “What are you doing?” I said, “You talk. I am going to type right." We did his paper that night, the whole time we finished, but he talked, and I typed. We got it done.

IG: 36:43
That is fantastic. And you spend the whole night?

DG: 36:46
Probably most of the night, doing that.

IG: 36:48
until [crosstalk]

DG: 36:50
Three in the ming.

IG: 36:51
"That is great. Did you help organize his thinking?

DG: 36:55
No. I just-

IG: 36:55
You just typed.

DG: 36:56
I just typed.

IG: 36:58
Well, that is, that is still, that is a big help. What did you think? What lessons did you learn from this time in your life at Harpur College? I mean, you were at a very formative period, you know, then you stepped out into the adult world in the- in law school, I would think, in a different state and but so how did this form you? What were some of the lessons that you learned from this period?

DG: 37:29
Well, that there are it just it built on what I learned in Monticello that went to public high school, that there were a lot of different people this world that have views and thoughts different than you, and you have to get along with them, and that you can build on your own strengths. I was on the swimming team, and I was not a stupid swimmer, and I remember judge-judge, trying to think the first, the first, the freshman year the coach, Dennis. Last name was Dennis, and he said, "You want to learn to dive?" I said, "Okay," so do it. I was not great at anything, but so he would try and say, when you, when you, when you went to a swimming meet, you had five required dives and then one optional. And they took the optional by putting the five categories in a hat, and they picked one out, and that became the optional dive. So, he, you know, we were not a big athletic school, and we did not go the big athletic schools. St Bonaventure was about the biggest name around from that we went. And he would always say, talk to the other coach and say, you know, you know, "Can we fix the optical dive at the at the easy one going forward?" So, some judges said, "Fine," it was okay. And I remember, one said "No." And I remember St. Bonaventure, the swimming pool was in, was in a downstairs area where the ceiling was, I think, lower than this. When you came off the board, you had to push your hands off the top in order to do certain dives. It was crazy, but-but I remember one particular time he said to me, he says, "David. "He said, "I am putting you in the individual medley." I said, "You know, I cannot." He said, "There were," he said "They are only put there were usually four swimmers, two from each side, and three got points. The fourth one got nothing. He said, "They only have one swimmer in the I am individual middling." He says, "All you have to do is finish and you get third place." He was, "Just finished," and it was, I remember, it was butter, back, breast, free. That was how they ran the butterfly stroke, breaststroke, the backstroke. And I could not do the backstroke to save myself, but I did, and it was, it was fun, but I remember, I swear I must have finished about three minutes after everybody, the second guy.

IG: 39:54
So, what did that particular episode teach you? Did-

DG: 40:01
Just perseverance.

IG: 40:02
Perseverance-perseverance. So you know, and you know, for posterity, for the you know, future students and others listening-listening to these tapes, what do you think what-what were the most important lessons that you have learned in your life that you would like to share with these students who are considering Binghamton or who are at Binghamton? And maybe-

DG: 40:37
I take a very different- I bring a very different perspective. I came from a very strong Jewish background, and I leaned more towards orthodoxy halfway through and I was going to transfer out, and things did not work. It just did not. And so that the last two years at Harpur, I restrict myself to a lot of things in within the Jewish religion that [inaudible] accomplish, such as not going out Friday night. I had a connection with Rabbi Bernard Brazil, who was the author the rabbi orthodox jewel in Binghamton. I told her son, he got me teach a Sunday school class there for a couple of years, which I did, and-and I connect with some of the people in the neighborhood who were, who were helpful to me. And so, I had a different ask- a different view of college the last two years that a lot most students that did not have.

IG: 41:38
But that is wonderful. I mean, you really had a very full life and maybe a more adult life because you were so involved in the community-

DG: 41:51
Yeah-yeah, I was.

IG: 41:52
-in-in really ministering to this community. Could you talk a little bit more about this? Because this is very unusual, I think.

DG: 42:01
Well, it became my own personal journey back to orthodox roots. And so, you know, I did not go out Friday night. I was a dorm counselor. If I had to be on duty on Friday night, I sat and I tried not to do things that would infringe. I restricted my diet there, even in the mess hall, very and supplemented it with my own food for cautious reasons. And just geared myself to going to guiding my life in the future based upon these religious attendance that became more important to me as I went along.

IG: 42:46
And what- why do you think that that happened midway during your undergraduate career? What happened in your thinking?

DG: 42:55
My brother got married, and he was not very you know, he did not have any religious influence. Had very little religious influence in his life. And I said to myself, I went to, went to the wedding in the Bronx. He said, "David, you can get married one day also." And, you know, thinking of my grandparents and their- my grandfather, Rabbi the [inaudible], who's a, I mean, who that is a ritual slaughter of animals. And I said, “You know what? They are really right. That is where I have to go,” and I did.

IG: 43:31
So that is a very- so-so what? What would you tell these young people listening to your interview. What-what is important about that experience?

DG: 43:45
Experience is that for me, as an Orthodox Jew religion, became a very paramount issue, and had to deal with it in the time constraints. I had a Harpur, and I did to the best-best I could. And then once I left and went to law school, I was able to broaden my religious life because I had a lot more freedom as to, as to where I was living, what I was eating, what I was doing.

IG: 44:14
So do you think that the message might be, you know, sort of stick to your guns and do what you feel is important.

DG: 44:22
That is if you want, if you want to generate, if you want to generalize it, yes, that would be a-a generalized comment.

IG: 44:31
Where did you meet your wife?

DG: 44:34
In synagogue in Washington, DC.

IG: 44:36
Okay, that it was not at Harpur.

DG: 44:38
Right.

IG: 44:40
Have any of your children or grandchildren considered Harp- Binghamton?

DG: 44:48
No, not in their scope.

IG: 44:52
No, because it is- they are a different generation.

DG: 44:54
Yeah, my three girls, my three girls, two went Stonehill College. One went to Queens. College. All went to seminary in Israel for a year.

IG: 45:02
Oh, wow.

IG: 45:02
Any of them-

DG: 45:04
They are all married, and they are all really-

IG: 45:07
Any rabbis in your family?

DG: 45:10
I have two sons and [inaudible] the rabbi.

IG: 45:12
Oh, wow-wow.

DG: 45:12
Yeah, but-but they are not pulpit robbers. They are education rabbis. One is, one is head of a school in California, Los Angeles, the other is Dean of Students at Magen and David [Magen David Yeshivah School], which is a Sephardic school in Brooklyn.

IG: 45:26
Wow. Well, do you have this is- it is, it is really a very interesting interview, and I think that we have gotten a very different perspective on Harpur College, you know, experience during the (19)60s, and anything that I have heard from other-

DG: 45:48
I will tell you the-the one of the greatest things about Harpur College was not the college itself but was it stepping on the coat cement ceremony.

IG: 45:58
Tell us about that [laughs]

DG: 45:59
Because it was just wonderful. They had and Richie Walters, you know, and I, you know, to get up there to understand how they did things. Richie got up and he said, you know, we have this, whatever was that great Greek-Greek poet Testiclēs, and that is how that kind of stuff that they were. But it was, it was, it was a fun ceremony. It was the official end of winter, the beginning of spring. They stepped on the one with the coat they brought up ceremoniously up the stairs outside the Student Union, and they put it down. And Kestrel came over, and he stood up, you guys, very seriously, stepped on the coat. You look back and-and, yeah, people were laughing. It was fun, but it was nice. It was, it was a good hearted, fun thing to do that did not step on anyone's toes. You know, it was not, was not race oriented, it was not religion oriented. It was just something that someone thought of and carried out.

IG: 46:56
And kind of brought unity to [crosstalk]

DG: 47:01
Oh, everybody liked it. I you know the faculty too, though everyone, there was not anyone who did not like it.

IG: 47:08
Yeah. Are there any concluding remarks that you have? Do you want to share anything?

DG: 47:18
I can only say that there were turbulent times in the (19)60s. And, you know, we, as far as I know, we all survived. There were guys at Harpur, and I look back now, and there are people who took different directions, because some kind, some guy, some guys could handle being away, and some guys could not. Some guys could handle a breakup with a girl more than others. And was, there were turbulent times, you know, in the whole country, and Harpur was, was part of it.

IG: 47:54
But just-just you mentioned something that, you know, some, some guys could handle breakups and these difficulties, others could not. You know, were there any support systems for this outside of, you know, maybe that that is why, you-

DG: 48:15
I say that because I remember one particular guy, and I think he eventually, I do not think he graduated. I think he had difficult times. Eventually left school. I remember one situation, and he was having a very difficult time, because he was going out with a girl, and something happened, they broke up and-and he took a very-very difficult, very poorly. But, you know, there was no, was no, you know, support system. You know, some would say, of course, see the school psychologist. I guess there were some people. I do not think they had a system at that point, but there were people who felt closer to me, to some professors that they could talk to on a friendly basis, as opposed to academic basis.

IG: 49:04
I see, I see. And maybe they did not have, they did not think of, you know, religion as a support system. Maybe. So- I David, unless you have some, some other gem that you want to share with us. I thank you so much-

DG: 49:24
One thing I do remember Professor, I think his name was Roma. He had a baby face-face, yeah. And he was like a philosophy- philosophy professor, and he looked so young. And one thing he said in class was, you know there was some guys who did something about running, I do not know a woman's garment at the flagpole, but not on, not on campus. I think off campus somewhere. And he said, "Now, if someone like me did it, you know, they throw the book on them, but if the students do it is a prank."

IG: 49:53
[laughs]

DG: 49:53
Yeah. So, I will just leave my closing remarks are. Uh, make the best of your, of your, of your, of your education. Live with your convictions and go forward.

IG: 50:08
Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you.

(End of Interview)

2018-02-19

Irene Gashurov

1966

M. David Graubard

David was an attorney at Kera & Graubard, specializing in bankruptcy, insolvency, Chapter 11, and debtor and creditor rights. He grew up in Monticello, New York.

Audio

Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City

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Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City