111
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1775
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https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a87260e9504b29d0bf72be702705dac5.pdf
81093ffd7fa5bb5798a7e46f2208a412
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BINGHAMTON
U N I A V E R S L T
S TAT E U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
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D E P A R T M E N T
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Friday, September 25, 2009
8:00 p .m.
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�PROGRAM
HINDUSTANI CLASSICAL MUSIC
Note: Indian musicians choose pieces on the spur of the moment
based upon the time of day and the particular mood they wish to
emphasize. Here is a general outline for tonight’s performance:
e The instrumental performance tonight features an extensive
opening solo sarod sequence known as « I+ pJorJh+I+. The ° l° p
is an unmetered improvisation that demonstrates the scale,
mood, and musical rules of the raga. Normally musicians begin
at the mid range of their instrument, and slowly descend to the
lowest notes. Then the « I p progresses all the way up to the
highest octave on the instrument, and then back down to the
middle range.
e In the next section, the jor, the musician introduces a sense of
pulsation through the extensive plucking of a set of 3 drone
strings (cik« re), in alternation with strokes on the melody strings.
e The final part o f the opening sequence, jh I , is a climactic
section featuring extensive strumming of the drone strings often
using sixteenth notes and building up speed to a thunderous
climax. Depending on the skill and mood of the performer, this
completely extemporaneous opening sequence can last from 10
40 minutes (sometimes longer).
e Following the above opening sequence, the artist will play one or
more instrumental compositions known as gat. Gat are
precomposed melodies that are thoroughly developed using
extensive improvised runs that return to the main theme. Gat are
in a tala cycle, and at this point in the performance the tabla
drummer will enter, often with a rhythmic cadence timed to end
on the first beat of the tala cycle. Often the sitar and tabla will
trade rhythmic combinations in a playful question and answer
style. Normally an artist will choose from slow, medium, and fast
speed gats in the same raga, although they may employ different
tala cycles.
oe
Subsequent to the full performance o f the chosen raga, the artist
will choose one or more shorter pieces drawn from folk music,
devotional hymns, or from various ‘Iight’ classical genres to
conclude the program.
W
W
W
The origins of Indian classical music can be traced to the Vedas, a set of four
texts that comprise the foundation o f the Hindu religion, and were passed
down orally until around 1500 BC when they began to be written down. The
texts comprise hymns, which not only aided memorization, but also provide
the foundation of Indian music. In the first few centuries AD, the sage
Bharata compiled a treatise on music, dance, and theatre that provided the
theoretical foundations for future directions in Indian composition. Bharata
outlined the organization o f rhythm and meter into cycles made up o f
groupings of beats now referred to as tala. Every composition is set to a
particular tala cycle made up of stressed and unstressed beats.
Knowledgeable audience members may extemalize the tala by a system of
claps (tali) representing the strong beats, and waves (khali) representing the
weak beats.
Bharata also formulated the concept of raga, which is the melodic system
underlying Hindustani music. A raga consists of a scale, as well as a set of
musical rules governing choice and emphasis of pitches, melodic motion,
and ornamentation. A raga can also be associated with certain times of day
and/or seasons of the year. Bharata related each raga to a specific rasa, or
emotion, such as love, humor, anger, compassion, valor, wonder, or fear.
The term raga means color – a raga should color the mind and stimulate
listeners to emotional awareness of its feeling. After the writings of Bharata,
wandering monks began composing sacred hymns, known as bhajans, using
the raga and tala cycles formulized by Bharata. These sacred hymns provide
the source for many contemporary Indian classical compositions.
From this common historical origin, classical music in India has gradually
become divided geographically into Northern (Hindustani) and Southern
(Kamatik) traditions since the 13” century AD. The source of this diversion
was the occupation of Northern India by successive waves of Muslim
conquerors including Persian, Turkish, Arab, and Central Asian peoples.
During the successive reigns of these Muslim dynasties, Northern India
came to adopt and adapt several instruments, styles, and techniques from
Persian and Arabic music. Hindustani classical music, as we know it today,
took shape in the 16” century AD in the courts of the Mughal emperors as
Hindu musicians began to seek employment as court musicians. At the
Mughal courts, Hindu musicians mixed with Persian musicians, and they
began to develop a hybrid of both musical traditions. They also began to
intermarry, and many contemporary Hindustani musicians have Persian
surnames.
Through time, certain families of court composers established gharana, or
stylistic schools of performance and interpretation. Eventually these schools
took on talented students from outside the family, spreading the influence of
these previously local styles. During the British colonization of India (1850
1947), many of the courts were dissolved and musicians shifted their
performances to the concert stage, where it can now be enjoyed by all.
�ABOUT THE INSTRUMENTS
ABOUT THE PERFORMERS
Tanpura/Sruti b ox
Tanpura is a longnecked lute, unfretted and roundbodied. It has four or
five wire strings that are open plucked one after the other to create a
steady drone ambiance. The strings are normally tuned to the 1 * and 5 ”
scale degrees of the raga. The tanpura articulates a constant drone, to
melodically frame the monophonic improvisations of the musicians.
Nowadays, this instrument is commonly replaced by an electronic device.
called sruti box, which is portable and easier to travel with.
Internationally acclaimed performer, Rajeev Taranath is one of the world’s
leading exponents of the Sarod. A distinguished disciple of Maestro Ali
Akbar Khan, his performances masterfully combine the depth and rigor of
the tradition of Hindustani classical music with an inspired imagination and
emotional intensity.
Sarod
The Sarod, along with the sitar, is the most popular and prominent
instrument in Hindustani Classical music. The sarod originated in
Afghanistan, from a similar instrument called the rebab. Immigrant
musicians brought it to the courts of Northern India in the late 1700s. It is
made of carved teak wood, with the resonator covered with goatskin and
the fingerboard covered with polished nickel. It has up to 25 strings, 10 of
which are plucked by a coconut shell pick; the other 15 strings run below
the playing strings and are sounded by the vibrations from the plucked
strings above them. This gives the sarod a shimmering sound, as each
plucked note vibrates the 15 strings below. The lack of frets and the
tension of the strings makes it very technically demanding to play, as the
strings must be pressed hard against the fingerboard. Normally the
musician uses the tips of the fingernails to press the strings, allowing them
to ring out, and also permitting the liberal use of slides up and down the
neck. The descent of the sarod from the lute family of Persian–Afghani
instruments makes it a distant relative to the European lute.
Tabla
The tabla set is the principle percussion instrument used in Hindustani
classical, religious, and film musics. The instrument consists of a pair of
hand drums of contrasting sizes and timbres. The smaller drum, played
with the dominant hand, is made from a conical piece of wood and is often
called tabla. One of its primary tones is tuned to a specific note of the raga,
and thus contributes to and complements the melody. The larger drum,
played with the other hand, is called b y n and is made of metal. It covers
a lower range than the other drum. The playing technique for both drums
involves extensive use of the fingers and palms in various configurations to
create a wide variety of different sounds. On the bey+n, the heel of the
hand is also used to apply pressure, in a sliding motion, so that the pitch is
changed during the sound’s decay.
l
l
Hailed a prodigy in Hindustani vocal music, he had been earlier trained by
his father Pandit Taranath and other eminent musicians and was a concert
and radio artist before he was twenty.
Rajeev has toured extensively as a performer in India, Australia, Europe,
Yemen and throughout the U.S. He has also composed music for several
nationally and internationally honored Indian films. He is the recipient of the
Indian Government’s highest award in the arts, the Sangeet Natak
Academi Award for 19992000, given in recognition of outstanding
achievement in the field of Hindustani Instrumental music. In 1998 he
received the prestigious national Award, ‘Chowdiah Award for Music’ from
the Government of Karnataka in India for excellence in the field of
instrumental music. He has also received awards from the Indian State
Government of Karnataka for his contribution to music the Sangeet Nritya
Akademi Award in 1993 and the Karnataka Rajya Prashasti in 1996. In
1980, he was the subject of a documentary made for the television in
Eden, Yemen, entitled Finnan MinAlHind (Artist from India).
Rajeev Taranath’s distinctive musicianship demonstrates striking
imaginative power, technical excellence and emotional range. He is
respected for the clarity of musical understanding which he brings to the
unfolding of a raga and the beauty of the tone he evokes from the sarod.
The New York Times (April 14, 1982) described his music by commenting
with great enthusiasm about the exuberance and versatility of his playing,
which ranged from the spiritual to the spirited.
I
Rajeev was a Ford Foundation scholar (1989 to 1992) and researched
during this period on the Teaching Techniques of the MaiharAllauddin
Gharana. Rajeev has also received guidance from Pandit Ravi Shankar
and Shrimati Annapurna Devi. From 19952005 he was a member of the
music department faculty at the prestigious Califomia Institute of the Arts in
Los Angeles, California.
Rajeev Taranath frequently performs and tours throughout India and
internationally with concert engagements for major Indian music
conferences, Universities, western chamber music series, world music
festivals and Indian cultural organizations dedicated to the presentation of
high caliber Indian classical music.
�Nitin Mitta is one of the most s ought after young tabla players of our
generation with rare technical virtuosity and sensitivity. He has
WSKG
performed worldwide with some of India’s most celebrated and honored
musicians such as Pt. Jasraj, D r. Prabha Atre, Pt. Rajan Sajan Mishra,
Pt.Vishwa Mohan Bhatt, Smt. Veena Sahasrabudhe and Pt. Budhaditya
Mukherjee just to name a few. Nitin received his early training in
Hyderabad from Pandit G. Satyanarayana. In his years as a tabla
student, he won many accolades, including the first prize in the All India
Competition held in Calcutta. He was also awarded a National
Scholarship by the Ministry of H uman Resource Development, Central
Govt. His passion for rhythm and his desire to enhance his repertoire of
tablacompositions, lead him to seek the guidance of Pandit Arvind
Mulgaonkar. Both of Nitin’s Gurus are disciples of the late Ustad Amir
Hussain Khan Saheb, legendary doyen of the Farukhabad Gharana.
Nitin has thus received two perspectives upon a single tradition and he
has enriched his inheritance through his own capacity for assimilation
and interpretation.
Public B roadcasting
m a l i a n m a d o
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On moving to the United States in 2002, Nitin received a grant from the
Rhode Island State Council on Arts. He has been on the Faculty at the
Learn Quest Academy of Music in Waltham, MA. Now a resident of New
York City, he is actively involved in teaching, performing, recording, and
conducting tabla workshops. He has recently performed at venues like
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Rubin Museum of Art, The Asia
Society, and The Indian Embassy in New York and The Smithsonian
Museum in Washington DC. He has also conducted lecture
demonstrations and performed at Brown University, MIT, Harvard, UC
Berkeley, U Penn, The University of Chicago and Drury University. Nitin
has performed in some of the major festivals and venues in India, the
U.S. and in Canada, Germany, France, England, Ireland, Finland, Sri
Lanka and the Baltic countries Lithuania, Belarus, and Vilnius. He has
performed at the Purcell Room, London and the India culture centre,
Berlin. In India, he has performed at some of the most prestigious music
festivals and venues, including The Pt. Motiram and Pt. Maniram
Sangeeth Samaroh, Hyderabad, The Pt. Radhika Mohan Moitra Music
conference, Kolkatta, Music Academy, Chennai, SPICMACAY, The St.
Xavier’s’ IMG Music Festival, Mumbai, Surya Festival, Trivandrum, India
Habitat Centre, New Delhi and the Nehru Centre, Mumbai.
His performance in the musical album entitled “Soul Strings” released by
Music Today has been widely appreciated. To learn more about Nitin,
visit his website at www.NitinMitta.org.
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�Bingha m ton Univer sity Music Depar tment’s
U PCO M I N G E V E N T S
idDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Thursday , October 1 ° M
Casadesus Recital Hall
Thursda y, October 8 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Friday, O ctober 9 ” African DanceDrumming Workshop with Kwadzo
Tagboxlo and Pierrette Aboadjx, 1:00 – 3:00 PM, FA 104, FREE
Friday, October 9 ” 3Penny Opera with the Theatre Department and
University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters Theater, $$
Saturda y, October 1 0 ” African DanceDrumming Workshop with
Kwadzo Tagborlo and Pierrette Aboadji, 1:00 – 3:00 PM, Africa House,
50 Washington Avenue, Endicott, NY, FREE
pera with the Theatre
Saturda y, October 1 0 ” 3Penny O
Department and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters
Theater, $$
Thursday, Octob er 15% MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Rectal Hall
pera with the Theatre Department
Friday, October 1 6 3Penny O
and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Walters Theater, $$
Saturda y, October 17°" 3Penny Opera with the Theatre
Department and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters
Theater, $$
Saturda y, October 17°" Paul Taylor Dance Company with the
Binghamton University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Osterhout Concert
Theater, $$
pera with the Theatre Department
Sunday, October 1 8 ” 3Penny O
and University Symphony Orchestra, 2:00 PM, Watters Theater, $$
For ticket information, please call the
Anderson Center Box Office at 777ARTS.
�
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1960's - present
Title
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Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
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In copyright.
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2 sound discs
Duration
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1:06:01
24:48
Streaming Audio
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152845">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152845</a>
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
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North Indian sarod, September 25, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-09-25
Description
An account of the resource
Held at 8:00 p.m., September 25, 2009, Anderson Center Chamber Hall.
Creator
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Mitta, Nitin
Tarananth, Rajeev
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Date
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2009-09-25
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sound
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https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/3aa013464616e45c788fc7d41cae9038.pdf
e2480c1917a24f931f48a84090a9e872
PDF Text
Text
BINGHAMTON
U N I V E R S I T Y
S TAT E U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
D E P A R T M E N T
THURSDAY
MIDD4ay CONCERT
1
M M O PFRA PROGRAM
Dane Skrabalak, PIED 4CCompanisy
Thursday, October I, 2009
1.20 p .m.
Casadasus Keacrial Hal
�PROGRAM
Music for a While
H. Purcell
from Oedipus
(16597?)
Julian Whitley baritone
Ach, ich fuhl’s..........
.W.A. Mozart
from Die Zauberflote
(1756 1791)
Victoria Cannizzo soprano
Where e’er you walk
G.F. Handel
from Semele
(1685 1759)
Daniel Ibeling tenor
Mi Iusinghe iI dolce affetto
G.F. Handel
from Alcina
(1685 1759)
Ashley Maynard mezzo soprano
Quanta & bella.
s
Michael Fries tenor
Frere, voyez!
i
n Donizetti
from Elisir d’amore
(1797 1848)
J. Massenet
Amanda Chmela soprano
Do You Know the Land
from Werther
(1842 1912)
Mark Adamo
Julian Whitley baritone
from Little Women
(b. 1962)
WEVERENN. WLA
. Mozart
Dove sono
“from Le Nozze d i Figaro
Victoria Cannizzo soprano
Dies Bildnis ist bazaubemd schoen.
Daniel Ibeling tenor
Verdi Prati
(1756 1791)
.W.A. Mozart
from Die Zauberflote
(1756 1791)
G.F. Handel
Ashley Maynard mezzo soprano
Zuetgnung
from Alcina
(16851759)
R. Strauss
Michael Fries tenor
A Simple Sailor..
( 1 8 6 4 1949)
.A. Sullivan
Amanda Chmela soprano
from HMS Pinafore
(1842 1900)
NOTES AND TRANSLATIONS
Ach, Ich ftlhl’s...
Pamina, unaware that Tamino is undergoing a special initiation rite within the sacred
precincts of the enlightened of Sarastro’s order, mistakes his reticence for rejection.
She states that, denied the affection of Tamino, she will seek solace in death alone.
Ml Iusinghe ll dolce affetto...
I am enchanted with sweet affection
for the vision of my beloved.
But who knows?
I must fear then I deceive myself
by falling in love again
But if she were to be the one whom I truly adored
and abandoned, then I am but unfaithful,
ungrateful, and a cruel traitor.
Quanto é bella
Nemorino rhapsodizes on the attributes of Adina – beautiful, charming, Ieamed and
wise. He, alas, considers himself an unworthy suitor, being unschooled, oafish, and
simple, and laments his inability to create any kind of affectionate bond with the
superior object of his desires.
Frére, Voyez...
Sophie the evercheerful, encounters Werther the evermorose friend of her family,
and tries to lift his spirits for a Spring celebration, announcing that even the newly
returning birds have declared that God himself declares that it is appropriate and
forgivable to be happy.
Do You Know the Land...
During a debate about the merits of opera and art in general, Jo March asks for a
defining example of what should be considered “proper” art. Professor Friedrich
Bhaer responds by reciting a poem by Goethe (Kennst du das Land).When Jo asks
for a translation Bhaer complies with an ex tempore translation, in which the poem
not only clarifies the sentiment but evolves as a convenient vehicle in which he
reveals his own feelings towards Jo.
Dove sono...
Countess Almaviva first debates the wisdom of her decision to plot with Susanna
and Figaro to teach her errant husband a lesson about fidelity. She then goes on to
lament that the charm and magic of the early days of their affair (cf. The Barber of
Seville) seem to be distant history. She concludes with a resolve to try one last time
to resurrect the devotion that she and her husband once enjoyed.
Dies Blldnls lst bezaubernd schoen...
Tamino has been sent a portrait of Pamina, daughter of the Queen of the Night, by
the queen’s attendant ladies. He falls immediately in love with the image, and swears
to find Pamina and make her “forever mine". He later learns that there is a quest
involved. He must free her from the clutches of Sarastro, high priest of a cult which
he later aspires to join.
�Verdi Prati...
Green meadows, inviting woodlands
you will lose your beauty
Lovely flowers, flowing streams
your charm and beauty will soon be changed.
Green fields, charming woods
your beauty will be lost
and the charming graces will transform
into the former look of bleakness and horror
Zueignung
Yes, you know it, dearest soul
When far from you I suffer
Love can make the heart sick
Have thanks_
Once I, a drinker of freedom
held high the amethyst cup
And you blessed the drink
Have thanks_
And you cleansed the evils from it
Until I, as I had never been before
Blessedly sank upon your heart
Have thanks_
A simple sailor...
Josephine is faced with a crucial decision: Whether to yield to her father’s wishes
and wed the influential and wealthy Sir Joseph, or to follow her heart and accept the
attentions of Rackstraw, an honest, hard working, albeit lowborn sailor. She
visualizes what life for her would be like in both scenarios, and calls upon the twin
gods of Love and Reason to advise her.
Binghamton University M usic D epartment’s
M P C O M l N 4 E V E N T S
M
M
October – eve r y Thursday MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
October – various d ates a n d ti m e s 3Penny Opera with the Theatre Department
and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters Theater, $$
Sa tu r d ay, O ctober 1 7 Paul Taylor Dance Company with the Binghamton University
Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Osterhout Concert Theater, $$
Saturday, O ctober 2 4 ” Family Weekend Concert {Harpur Chorale, Women’s Chorus
and Wind Symphony), 3:00 PM, Osterhout Concert Theater, FREE
:
Fri d ay, N ovember 6 Song of Silk (for school gmups grades 712), 10:00 AM,
Watters Theater, (for tickets, contact BOCES Arts in Education at 607. 766. 3773)
For ticket information, please call the Anderson Center B ox O ffice a t 777ARTS.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960's - present
Title
A name given to the resource
Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: PDF / Rosetta
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Original Format
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1 sound disc
Duration
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48:57
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152858">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152858</a>
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Thursday mid-day concert MM opera recital, October 1, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-10-1
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Held at 1:20 p.m., October 1, 2009, Casadesus Recital Hall.
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2009-10-01
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https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/452f0fe05e924e1a7221f51da635fbd2.jpg
8271af811647c16d2b6b6b9162071982
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/08465f1a4d3db4bce08cd1cc191cf17a.mp3
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McKiernan Interviews
Description
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Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
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Stephen McKiernan
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Binghamton University Libraries
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English
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
2009-10-10
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Rennie Davis
Language
English
Biographical Text
Rennie Davis (1940-2021) was a spiritual lecturer and an activist. Davis was an American anti-Vietnam war protest leader of the 1960s. He was one of the Chicago Seven defendants. He appeared on several shows, including <em>Larry King Live</em> and <em>Barbara Walters</em>, and provided business advice for Fortune 500 companies. Davis was an alumnus of Oberlin College.
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
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MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Duration
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125:41
Keywords
<span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Voting rights; Drug culture; Baby boom generation;Healing; Vietnam Memorial; Hippies; Yippies; Peace Corps; Trust; Mistrust of government; Kent State; Watergate; Richard Nixon; Democratic Convention; Weathermen; Students for a Democratic Society; Vietnam Veterans; Eugene McCarthy; George McGovern; Lyndon Johnson; John F. Kennedy; Robert F. Kennedy; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Malcolm X."}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":3,"3":{"1":0},"4":{"1":2,"2":13228792}}">Voting rights; Drug culture; Baby boom generation;Healing; Vietnam Memorial; Hippies; Yippies; Peace Corps; Trust; Mistrust of government; Kent State; Watergate; Richard Nixon; Democratic Convention; Weathermen; Students for a Democratic Society; Vietnam Veterans; Eugene McCarthy; George McGovern; Lyndon Johnson; John F. Kennedy; Robert F. Kennedy; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Malcolm X.</span>
Subject LCSH
Chicago Seven Trial, Chicago, Ill., 1969-1970; Political activists--United States; Davis, Rennie--Interviews
Transcription
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McKiernan Interviews
Interview with: Rennie Davis
Interviewed by: Stephen McKiernan
Transcriber: Carrie Blabac-Myers
Date of interview: 10 October 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
0:02
RD: That is probably worse than what happened to [inaudible] finding, you know, Christianity as a religion that did not really make any sense at all, so Tom kind of went through, what in the world? I mean, it was just, you know, I was viewed by myself too. I was a self-image, but other people too, just so stable in my politics and my consistency, what I believed and what I would do, you could count on me you know, and it was nice to have. Then all of a sudden you could not count on me anymore and I thought, oh what happened?
0:44
SM: How did you used to be for the record questions? I answered? How did you become who you became?
0:50
RD: In the (19)60s?
0:51
SM: In other words, experience? Yeah, when we when and when students on college campuses saw you and Tom. You know, a lot of us knew about Tom because of the Free Speech Movement and, and the poor Iran statement, and we were reading about that young man from Michigan. But where did you come from? How did you get? How did you get the 1968? Chicago? I mean?
1:16
RD: Well, my dad was the Chief of Staff of Truman's Council of Economic Advisers, and was a, had left University teaching when Roosevelt came in, you know, and but basically saw himself as supporting a government trying to do recovery with stimulation. And so he was pro Liberal government, you know, Liberal Democrat, I would say that it risen to the highest level of his profession. And I grew up in an environment, a climate, I mean, he lost a job when Eisenhower was elected president.
2:10
SM: Definitely a democrat.
2:12
RD: He had purchased this 500-acre farm about seventy miles west of Washington and decided because he had himself grown up on a farm in Sao Paulo, Ohio that he was, you know, from his perspective, black balled and Washington, he could not get a job, you know, in his profession, at least for a while. So he decided to make a go of it on the farm. It was the greatest thing that ever happened to us, you know. At first we were kicking and screaming, but so we all moved out to the farm and it looked like we were farmers. I mean, you know, the nearest neighbor was almost a half a mile away, it was a very isolated place, but beautiful place, but, and I went to, you know, a local high school and I guess I found myself about a year ahead of everybody, academically, just coming from the Washington School to a rural country Virginia School. But right away, started making good grades for me, you know? And then I got active in activities in the in the school too. I was president the student body, I was editor in chief of the school newspaper. I became kind of um, I won the state championship in 4H, poultry judging. I won the eastern United States poultry judging contest. Then I had a stolen from me in Chicago. That was my view, but it was not really. So I had the farming thing and I was, I suppose you could say I was high school activism and I was doing a lot of things in high school.
4:03
Unnamed speaker: You were telling me about a rally that you did in high school, didn’t you?
4:07
RD: Valley?
4:08
Unnamed speaker: A rally did not you do a rally in high school or something like a demonstration?
4:13
RD: Well, we had a dance thing that we moved off, you know, we rented a place I had a band, I played the piano, and we had a nightclub type of thing, you know, but there were not any chaperones. We were just doing it on our own, you know, and it was became a big controversial thing with the principle of the school. I would not call it too political but anyway, during this period, I asked my dad, you know, I had a worldview and thinking about issues I sort of you know, I was I went to an all-white high school. You know, I did not really fully glock segregation when I was in high school. I had a very high-grade point average, which, you know, I fortunately, got me into a decent undergraduate school, I went to Oberlin College in Ohio. And I, in the first year was terror of trying to catch up with everybody and then by the second year, I became roommate with a guy named Paul Potter, who was, who knew Tom. Tom was at the University of Michigan, we were at Oberlin. And it was it was very interesting. I mean, you were in January 1960, you really could not tell that it was not still the 1950s. There was no signs of anything really. It was my first intuitive moment, I would say, you know, I knew in January 1960, something immense and huge was about to happen. And I could not really say what it was other than it felt like the entire generation was going to come together and really make a difference in the world, you know, but there was there was zero, so I mean, there was nothing going on. I mean, before Kennedy was elected. Well, yeah, this would be maybe with Kennedy. Kennedy, what would have been a January 20, 1960. So the election was happening. I mean, you could say also the, you know, I mean, I watched the Stevenson campaign with Eisenhower. And we were drawn to the elegance of Stephenson, and his family and so on. But there was no civil rights movement. I mean, there were there were things let you know about now, historically, but not in the media. But it was just it was just entertaining. There was just like a vibration or something. I do not know that is probably not the right word, it was a knowingness that, that I was a part of something that was huge, you know. And I knew that really before the, right there at the end of (19)59, very early (19)60. And then, for me, the thing that launched everything was February 4, 1960. When four students that A&T college, you know, sat down in Greensboro. And you know, we watched this thing through the media. Now, Life magazine came out with this picture book story and it was mostly it was just shocking, you know, I mean, I mean, I grew up in an all-white school. And yet, for me, the idea that blacks had no justice, they could not have a hamburger, you know, there were two whites and negro toilets. And they, you know, it was just like, I did not know where I was, I mean, I did not get it, you know, before, but now I could see, you know. So it was a little bit of my father's values about justice, fair play and equality and you know, those kind of principles. Yet, you know, beating reality that was like, shocking and like oh, my God, you know. So, it was by February, early March, and by February, I would say we were full tilt 100 percent into a movement that really technically did not even exist, but talented kids, it was like, wow, here we go, you know? And from that day forward, I would say it was pretty much nonstop, twenty-four seven for thirteen years, was the only thing that was really our focus. Tom showed up. Well, I wound up organizing a political convention in Oberlin College, where students nominated a mock convention, you know, you nominate a presidential candidate. I was the campaign manager for Hubert Humphrey, who at that moment was considered kind of a liberal.
5:52
SM: Yeah. That must have been a great experience.
9:22
RD: Yeah, and then Tom showed up, you know, one spring day at school and basically, oh, and we from there we formed the political party called the Progressive Student League. And these are all unheard of concepts. Yeah. I mean, they were just seemed like we were ingrained with this or something it was weird, because nothing was telling us to do any of this was sort of natural. You know? So we so we ran up a slate of candidates for student government. I was the chairman of the party; I did not run as a candidate, but our slate swept the whole thing. So, we controlled every single seat on Student Government [laughter] Like all at one time. Now I was really powerful.
10:17
SM: You were empowered.
10:18
RD: I was empowered, yeah.
10:19
SM: Tom talks about them, you know, when he came to our campus, that our students were having a hard time. [inaudible] When you hear, when do you think the (19)60s and the (19)70s began? What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of that period?
10:47
RD: Well, that was what I was just sharing. I would say the sense of the (19)60s started around December 1959 and January (19)60. There were some events like Kennedy running for president. But quite honestly, what I said was not apparent. And what it was, was a sense of a generation, young people generation, who was going to make the world a better place? Really make a difference. And there really was not any objective, tangible evidence that I can, you know, that I noticed anyway, for that, it was just an internal sense. Then the external event for me was the February fourth sit in.
11:45
SM: Okay.
11:46
RD: So that launched me into a full time into a campaign to you know, the (19)60s movement.
11:56
SM: That would be, that was my next question here. Is there one specific event that shaped your life when you were young? What was that event?
12:02
RD: Well, that was the event that triggered everything, yeah.
12:08
SM: When did you sense that, not only within your group, but within the boomer generation and again, when we define the boomer generation now, because there have been books written about, they kind of define those individuals born between 1946 and 1964. And we know that a lot of people that were leaders in the anti-war, movement, civil rights, and a lot of these other movements were older than that. But when did you start sensing that the boomer generation, this post-war generation was-
12:44
RD: January 1960.
12:46
SM: That very same period.
12:47
RD: That is what I am talking about. That sense that there was a new generation that was going to change the world was internally sensed. Then the external launch was February 4th but they, you could say, well, that the SDS has not really got started, or there was not that much activity going on. But the mood shifted, the climate changed. I mean, the media was driving the sit-ins, and, you know, that was all happening, but to say that by - we organized this mock political convention, and it had the quality of the movement already, you know, occurring. And then then we formed the political party and it caught on. I mean it was, unheard of you know, probably, I do not know if any university ever really did that. I mean, maybe they did, but, you know, to us for the (19)50s. I mean, that was just, you know, I mean, we were you ran for student government over, you know, the right that visit women's dorms or things, you know, I mean, it was social issues locally. I mean, we were on it, we ran on our campaign of recognizing China as a government! Okay, that was one of our platform, plans, you know, civil rights for black people. It was all political. That was in the fall that was in the spring of well, I guess that would be (19)60. January (19)60? Yeah. Spring of (19)60. Then Tom Hayden shows up and basically is promoting a student organization nationwide. And he has already formed a political party in Michigan at the University of Michigan. It is almost identical, in concept of what we have just done at Oberlin, and we never talked about it, there was no communication about it. We just like, obvious to do this. And it had never been obvious before, you know. And so we were all excited. Yeah, let us go National and get things going and we were sending, you know, we were sending money, and support to students that were then forming themselves in, in the south. And so SDS emerged, Students for a Democratic Society and simultaneously at the same time, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee emerged. All of this, you know, in the spring of (19)60 and SDS was now a support system and a fan club for SNCC. You know, then basically, from there, we were starting to recognize that there was a national, I guess, you could say, leadership group sort of forming and we came together to produce a kind of a Tom Payne common sense pamphlet for the present time. And that became known as the Fourth Huron Statement. I mean Tom did, you know, a very elegant first draft, but a lot of people were involved in the writing of that, you know, quite a few. It was a group of people that, you know, emerged, Todd Giblin and,
16:29
SM: I did interview Todd.
16:30
RD: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there is a lot of people that, you know, contributed, Al Heber, myself, to the writing of that, you know, then that sort of caught on like wildfire on the campus, the Fourth Huron statement, and then we were looking for what are our next steps, and we felt like the next steps for us was to organize in communities, black communities, with a focus on voting rights, and also poor white communities with a focus on economic issues. And so, I became the director of something called the Economic Research and Action Project or ERAP in, let us see, I think we, we formalized that in the fall of (19)63 at a meeting in New York. Bob Dylan actually came to that meeting, sat in the back, you know, he was, and, you know, we were all thrilled with Bob Dylan you know! I mean, the immediate, he was similar, you know, he was just out of nowhere comes this voice that seems to be expressing something that we all, you know, aligned with, it was just like, it was all happening naturally. Without, I mean, there was a lot of work and organizing. But the thing that I do not think has ever been talked about, from anything I have ever read, was how self-organizing, it occurred. How the mood of young people just changed kind of overnight, in a flash and there was suddenly a base, where, you know, everywhere you went, there were people, you know, it is like two societies emerging, you know, a new nation just appearing overnight with I mean, yeah, it was organized to death and that made all the difference, ultimately, but what never really been understood or explained or talked about from, from what I have seen out there, maybe it has been, I just do not read everything, but just how this thing appeared kind of out of nowhere, you know, if you wanted to believe that human beings exist, after they die, or come in, you know, with a plan, not that you need to do that but just to be hypothetical for a minute, it was almost as if an entire generation chose to come in and do something. It was. It was just, it was weird, almost, you know. It was not, it was as, as if something had been pre-planned, you know, they all show up to be in this huge experiment of love and democracy and, you know, personal experimentation and breaking from society. Or it was it was just like a new culture, suddenly appeared overnight. And there were clearly two cultures, there was cultures of the fifties that still continued right into the (19)60s that was, you know, normal Americans, adults, you know. And then there was young people. And so, you know, you could, I did this many times I mean, I would just get a whim to go, I mean, I might be living here in Washington and decide to go to San Francisco. And so, you know, I would, you know, have a coat, I mean usually an army fatigue and put a toothbrush in my pocket, and probably nothing more, you know, and then just walk out onto the street, right in front of my house, and you did not have to be a main thoroughfare or anything. I would just stick out my thumb and the chance, I mean, within five minutes, there would be this painted van coming along, you know.
20:32
SM: I remember that.
20:33
RD: I mean, this was happening very quickly, you know. It is just like, suddenly we were everywhere. And it seemed like everywhere you turn around there was, you know, like minded people. I do not know how to describe them, free spirits, um, certainly doing some experimentation with pot. Yeah, you know, dressing you know, you know, not in a conventional way. I mean, not too careful. I mean, colorful and long hair. I mean the whole culture started to appear, you know, and appeared very quickly is what I am saying, you know. So we went into, from there, we went into community organizing and then I finally we worked with Bob Moses at a time later, Bob Harris, you know, and his project in Mississippi. And then, you know, we had a similar projects 150 students in ERAP that went into ten communities in the north. That was launched in 1965. The summer of (19)64 - (19)65 which is how it all started.
21:48
SM: How do you respond to in 1994, when Newt Gingrich came to power, he loved to make comments about the boomer generation and George Willis continued to do so with a lot of his writing and other political commentators, that the, the reason for the breakdown of American society goes back to that boomer generation: the reason why we had the divorce rate, the reason why we do not trust leaders, the reason why we have divisions between black and white, those who voted for the troops and against the troops, it was all for and against, for and against, and it created an environment that we have today where nobody talks to each other. They do not trust anybody. And Newt Gingrich and George Will, are two of the people that have written a lot on this. And actually, you know, Newt is a boomer, a lot of people think he is from Georgia, he is from Pennsylvania, born in Pennsylvania, until the age of twelve and of course, Ronald Reagan, when he became president, he made also comments: "We are back", you know, "We are back". You know, "America is back, love America", it was really a condemnation putting blame on that generation or those people that were linked to that generation, how do you respond to that? To those commentators?
23:12
RD: I think evolution, is, I can appreciate that. That point of view. I really can. But on the other side, would be on the other side. You know, taking the kind of shots at, I think maybe the better sociological study on this question with Paul Ray. With just doing a massive, one of the large probably the largest survey that has ever been done, recent, sort of recently about this society is Paul Ray's work where you know, it is, it is statistically scientific and try to actually measure the values of the whole society. And so, he finds that the smallest segment is the is the group that that Newt is talking about, that he describes this traditionalist, small town, rural, local, America first right or wrong, homespun values, you know, you, you trust the people you know, you do not trust, big government, Washington, farming roots, you know, agricultural roots, that sort of thing. And I forget the percentages, I mean, you can look those up. But then there was the rationalist which basically tended to include the modern big city, financially oriented. Rationalist meant that there really was not a guiding set of principles the way traditionalists had, they were more, doing what is practical. They were, you know, cosmopolitan and smart and, you know, they would, you know, they could create derivatives in a nanosecond, you know, or whatever was coming up, you know, that that kind of idea. They were not necessarily Democratic or Republican, but probably more democrats in general. They were not really that political, they were more practical, you know, pragmatist, that sort of idea, you know. And they were the dominant result in the study. But then there was this third group. That was actually this was the new emerging group, because the rationalists and the traditionalists had defined this country, historically, all through every generation. Now, suddenly, there was this new group that had this set of values that had reached critical mass. And they clearly had their roots in the (19)60s. They were oriented to environmentalism; they were curious about world events. They could take a position and study the point of view of another country about this country. And it was not America, right or wrong, it was like, they could see an international perspective. They tended to you know, favor participatory democracy kind of idea. And there was also within them, although they favored women, they favored blacks, they had all those kinds of things, but there was also within them a, an interest in spirituality, and not religion. But something else, you know, that never got clearly defined but it was more open ended, you know, seeking the truth, you know, answering the question, who am I, you know? Sitting quietly in nature, and just musing with yourself a little bit. Some of the things that happened after the drug explosion, when people went into nature and just tried to find themselves a little bit, and, you know, just be beautiful, and you know, love life, and that sort of thing, you know, kind of weird thing. I mean, if you are a farmer, where I grew up, you know, go and sit on a rock, and just adore of the sunset, I mean, he kind of do, but not really, you know, you work up until it is time to go to sleep, and then you get up and you work some more. And then you die, you know? It is a little more like that, where this idea of leisure time and introspection and finding out who I am, you got, a wa-wa things that I am putting into the rubric of spirituality. This was discovered by Paul Ray too, you know, that this was one of the components of this group, you know. And that this group was redefining the political landscape of this country. Now, all groups want to blame each other for you know, their misery and their problems. And that until human being changed their awareness stage and realize a little more about how the world really works, you know, that is going to be a natural thing. So people, people think that, you know, the republicans are doing it to me, I would say, though, that, that we live in the moment right now, where this basic, you could call it a fissure or separation is now intensifying, and peaking potentially, to the potential ending of the human species. Whether the human race will actually survive or kill itself off. This, the seeds of that question are planted right now in what we were seeing when you just turn on the television watching a talk show. I mean, all conflict is intensifying, all blame is intensified. I am not talking about which side to be on I am just talking about side-taking itself. Okay. So side-taking itself is intensifying, no one can hear anybody. And, you know, I mean, you can be Keith Oberlin or you can be Glenn Beck. You know, the point is that I am trying to make is that neither one can hear each other. They are both demonizing the other side, no one sees human beings anymore. They just see hatred for the opposition and blame everything that is wrong with, on the other side. We are actually moving now into a moment of the first what I would call the first stage of hysteria, the same kind of hysteria that is always been behind all wars. Okay. So war has officially ben the historic byproduct of this kind of hysteria. And what I just said, I do not see, I do not see in the right or the left, any understanding of this, okay. Everybody was so immersed in their position that the idea that you are attacking humanity itself, that it is not about which side you are on, it is about side kicking itself. Okay. It is reaching a level where this leads to war. Okay, civil war or international war? But that is where it ultimately goes. And then nobody say that everybody, you know, buttons down.
31:17
SM: Very good. Paul Ray. How do you spell that last name?
31:21
RD: R. A. Y.
31:23
SM: Has he written a book?
31:25
RD: Yeah, he wrote, he calls this third group Cultural Creative. It would be good for you to look at it because a lot of good, you know, statistical information about the very subject that we are talking about here. I think it is the best study so far really.
31:47
SM: If you look at the boomer generation, now, the seventy to seventy-five million, what would be some of the strengths of that group and what will be some of their weaknesses? As someone who not only worked with many of them, and inspired many of them, and I am sure you got frustrated with many of them, and as you look at them when you were younger, and when they were younger, and how you look at them now is there; now, first group has now reached I think sixty-two or sixty-three? Social Security, I think is the first group now right now, the sixty-two-year-olds.
32:22
RD: Uh huh.
32:24
SM: What do you see as their strengths and weaknesses, if you were to describe them as a group?
32:36
RD: I look at strengths and weaknesses, through the eyes of evolution. What furthers the growth of humanity? What allows humanity to come out of a very immature stage of awareness into a more mature stage of awareness, not, not as a judgment, but just as a trend, you know, where, and so from that point of view, humanity at an immature stage of awareness, has some of these qualities. They are very closed. Okay, their bodies are closed, their, their thoughts are closed, they are very, they have identities that protect whatever their belief system is. It is a little bit my way or highway kind of thing. And for humanity to mature, humanity needs to open and open is tied also to respect. When you disrespect, especially life, you close. You make judgments, you close, you do not really, you are not aware, you do not really see nuances or subtleties. So, from an evolutionary point of view of how the human race might survive, grow, and one day evolve into the magnificence that it actually could be, I am looking for human beings that can listen, human beings that can be rather than just be so caught up in their thoughts that they cannot really hear anything. The human being that is open, respectful of life, you know, recognizes that nature is living, not just an inanimate object, so you know that the only thing that is on this planet is human, and nothing else is really that important, really. So from that point of view, these guys have evolution. I would say that the boomer generation was on the whole, hopeful. The drug part of it is sort of good news and bad news in a way. I mean, the, what the, what the drugs did was to essentially remove inhibitors between the brain and the mind. You know, we all have inhibitors. We have inhibitors about sex, we have inhibitors about pretty much everything really, you know. So, you remove some of those inhibitors and if you are in a kind of a beautiful setting, you know, you might see your future, you might see a big picture, you know, you might get a little glimpse of how just beautiful you really are, you know. You might see yourself, as not just the human body, just things like that. So, the LSD, the peyote, though, you know, the hallucinogenic drug part of this, you know, caused many people do have an altering perspective on things, you know, that, you know, I am not defending drugs, I am just saying this was not a bad, you know, that did come out of this. Now, Newt Gingrich would be all upset that this happened, but it was expansive on the whole, there was also though a, the roots of, of humanity itself, were there too. And so, if you looked at the, say, the drug experience, you really could see, there were two levels. You know, there was the- what today would be the rave party experience, you know, just, you know party, you have no respect for anybody's space, while you are on this journey is there is no such thing as a sacred journey, you know. You know, you do not care about the clutter in the room as you do your trip. And, and out of that, inevitably really would have come bad trips, you know, you could actually scar your mind you, I mean, you see some things that you have repressed that, you know were sort of dark and upsetting, you know. Then there were those that, you know, went into nature and, you know, really cared about their environment and saw it as a sacred thing, and would set their intentions for what they hope would come out of. And you know, would actually have a pretty beautiful, expanded experience from it, you know, so within the drug experience, you had both groups going on within the boomer broad, broadly speaking. And you saw the same thing, too. I mean, there was a period in the (19)60s, where you really could just jump in a car, as a woman, travel across the country and feel really safe. I mean, you know, hitchhiking be safe, you know, you were not going to be raped, attacked, or anything you were really love, you know, happening, you know, for a little period of time, you know. You know, then you had, you know, the call the dark side, whatever were things that sort of, you know people turned on each other, you know, it was not safe anymore. And you know, and so, we kind of lost that innocence, you know. But there was a little moment of innocence in the cultural part of this equation, not so much the anti-war movement part, but in the cultural part. There was an innocence and that from an evolutionary, human evolutionary point of view, that is precious. That is very precious, you know, and so that was there. So within the strengths and the weaknesses, we brought as a group, our own strengths and weaknesses of humanity. And you know, the dark side came up, that repression came up, the hateful things came up, but also the innocence and the beauty and trust and the respect for life. And so there were there both things were present no different than the people themselves. Now, you know, when the whole thing closed, and everybody moved on, you know, then people when you know started or you know, money became important again, and having a household and, you know, family and children, you were going to pay rent now, and you know, it was not such a free carefree world anymore. The, sense is, though, that people were nevertheless affected by whatever it was, you know, there was an underlying beat river, to the whole thing. And it may be that that deep river appears again, you know, in another time, maybe this time, but not so much from the sixty-year-old but from younger people. It was, it was a life changing event. That would be really hard to find in this country's history any parallel.
40:08
SM: Good that brings me right into my next question and that is when I was on college campus there was this feeling of oneness even if you did not know a lot of the people there was a feeling. You hit it right on the point there about this innocence. Because I can remember specifically, because I did a lot of hitchhiking. Hitchhiked to Boston. Hitchhiked with my friends. I never was worried about it ever. And I remember some of the girls on the college campuses at that time were hitchhiking too then something happened in 1970-(19)71 school year, then all of a sudden, if the girls, the women are going into Binghamton you need if you have accompaniment, (19)71, (19)72, (19)73 things started change then. But the question that I want to ask is, there was this feeling that we were the most unique generation in American history. A lot of boomers felt they were very unique, because they wanted to change the world, they bring peace, that all kind of this utopia kind of feeling. And just you are thoughts on, on that. Just this feeling. And some a lot of boomers still feel it as sixty-year-olds despite all the criticisms, just your thoughts on whether they were the most unique or?
41:35
RD: Well, I would like to not turn it into self-aggrandizement for the generation you know, but you if you can kind of get out of self-importance about it because you happen to be one or something, I would say that I do not, the only generation that either remotely comes close would be the founding fathers. There you had a more of a leadership group, maybe similar to some of the people that were around SDS, and so on, that really carried an incredible legacy from kind of a controlling institutional world, whether it was a monarchy or a church institution. But all over the news, force and torture and so forth, to maintain a power base. Life was not safe, life was not really, you did not feel excited, you did not feel open, you watched your back, you know, your womb. And then coming into Europe comes so called enlightenment philosophers, John Locke, Descartes, you know, different, different writers who, you know, kind of set the stage. And the stage is all read by these founding fathers who follow what they were called. They, they envision, a- you know, a government that is really a new concept in the world, you know, it is it is very similar to SDS. It is not called participatory democracy. But it is democracy, you know, and it is, and it checks and balances over the excesses of egos of human beings. There is a lot of wisdom, you know, being expressed. And there is a country that, you know, has always been fine with Great Britain, that for a variety of reasons shifts and, gets motivated and inspired by philosophical visions. Especially the reading of Common Sense of Tom Payne. So suddenly, you have got a popular base that is buying very visionary concepts for that time you know. Well, when you look at all the other generations, Roosevelt, certainly, you know, had a had a gift for words and holding people together, not unlike Obama now, although Obama has his critics, Roosevelt did too, but it just was not the same. It is hard to see a group of people, creating a new vision, like a new humanity, a new vision of humanity with a mass base behind it that is trying to act and live and walk its talk as best it can and except for the founding time of the country, which is even there, it is a little bit of a stretch, I mean, you got certain elements to it. This, the (19)60s generation just is pretty unique. You know. From a point of view of personal growth, from the point of view of social change, from the point of view of freedom from stereotypes, moving away from racism, moving away from women oppression, you know, equality of all people, the very themes that the founding fathers are trying to say. I would say the (19)60s, grasped the vision, and had a mass constituency, attempting to do it.
45:51
SM: Hold on a second, make sure I turn this tape. Okay, its going.
46:02
RD: Ok, for a lot of people, and by a lot I mean, millions of people, it was the defining event of their life. It defined who they were as a person and it might spill in today into being a democrat rather than a republican or something but that kind of misses the point. It was more like founding father time, you know. Big, big thinking, big philosophy, inspiring humanity to its greatest potential. Freedom as an individual, not buying into authority concepts anymore. You know, society be damned! We are forming a new society! You know, we are democrat! We are a democratic society, you know, kind of thing. You had a mass base, that divided into two elements. One was sort of the political side, the other was the cultural side although they overlapped a lot. And taken together, they made for a time and a people that, you know, can have no parallels in American history.
47:20
SM: Very well put very well put. I wish I knew it Newt was here.
47:28
RD: I do not know; we might not be able to have our conversation then.
47:32
SM: I want to I am going to read this part here. Do you feel that boomers are still having problems with healing from the divisions that tore the nation apart in their youth? Divisions between black and white divisions between those who support authority and those who criticize. Division between those who supported the troops and those who did not. How has the wall, the Vietnam Memorial wall play in healing the divisions? Not just for veterans but beyond the veterans and their families. And do you feel that the boomer generation will go to its grave like senator Edmund Muskie said to our students, when we met with him before he passed away, that they will be like the Civil War generation not truly healing? Am I wrong in thinking this or has forty years made the statement "time heals all wounds" truthful? Just your thoughts about, have we healed as a nation since all the divisions back in the (19)60s, early (19)70s?
48:35
RD: Well, you know, healing like everything else is in the eye of the beholder. Do people who are baby boomers taken as an aggregate, walk around with a lot of hurt and scars over the divisions of the country that Newt Gingrich might say were caused by the baby boomers? Do they really have that sense of they really, you know, the divisions were there? You know, something that weighs heavy on them. Do the Traditionalists feel so deeply like Newt was expressing that the country is forever scarred and ruined by the (19)60s Boomer world? And so they can never go to the grave feeling they never healed the country back to the Reagan vision or something like that. Well, I, I think that if I you know, I do not know you maybe probably know that better than I do, really. But I would say for my main point is that I do not think the baby boomers have a lot of hurt and things to heal in themselves relative to this question. I really do not. I think that they may be disappointed that they did not achieve their agenda. They may wish they could go further. They may look to Obama as the current modern expression of what this is all led to. But they may be frustrated by, you know, the prejudice and the separation and the traditionalist value thinking but I do not think they are going to the grave hurt. I mean, Vietnam veterans coming back maybe pain our pain, many of them. There may be elements like that there might be somebody that had a bad trip that has psyche scars that, but I think those are the minority. I mean, I do not think those is defined the whole baby boomer world, you know. I think the baby boomers are kind of healthy on the whole, you know, relative this question. If, if there had to be an evaluation between the traditionalist and the baby boomers, it might be that the traditionalist is more hurting about this than the baby boomers. But I do not know that that is so deep, either. I mean, I think that they reject what is happening in the modern world, if you want to call baby boomers the modern world. They do not buy into it. But I do not think that they are hurt by it. I think what you have is two cultures, you know that and then in a certain way, Newt is on to something, you know, what you have got is a country that has really divided into segments, you know, two different cultures. The (19)60s certainly example of it had the stick, you know, the normal culture, and then you had the weirdos the (19)60s, hippies, yippies. You, you know, and but if you were a hippie, you did not, you were not upset about it. I mean, this was your life. I mean, this was great. This is far out. And this was American flag and apple pie and America right or wrong. That was fine, too. They were two different worlds. And they were not really exchanging ideas, interfacing with each other. They did not see each other as all human beings, it was very rare to see, in this modern time, a true coming together as humanity. The maybe the last time he saw it at all was the night of the millennium. In a very unexpected way, where all of humanity kind of came off without anybody blowing anybody up, killing anybody. Everybody just yeah, big time, you know, that, you know, the Olympics is it occasionally. But still the leading light, I would say in the world relative to seeing something that is, all humanity is participating in a great competitive sport. But it all comes together at the end, and we are all human beings. So, the thing that has been lost by the process that we are in apparently, it is too early to tell the outcome, is our humanity. So, baby boomers do not see humanity in traditionalists. They do not. They do not see humanity when they look at George Bush, they do not see humanity when they see Newt Gingrich, they do not see humanity when they hear Glenn Beck. They do not. And the same is true the other way you know, there is no humanity being felt for Obama. There is no humanity being felt for Rachel Maddow. You know, probably from the whether you call it the right or traditional equivalent, I call it you know, there are two cultures in this country. And the, the biggest group, which is the rationalist, but just make money, let us be smart, savvy, and sophisticated and all mature and grown up, do not really think deeply. You know, they are not really into philosophy, they do not really grasp the big picture. You know, they are more about the short-term gain that and those games get shorter and shorter and shorter. It used to be a quarter focus. Now it is daily, hourly, you know, kind of thing. It is very self-aggrandizement in its orientation. It is not really worried about global warming. Or, you know, the world situation. Or I mean, yeah, a little bit but, but that is still the dominant group. So yeah, Paul Ray was right, you still have these three major groups, the biggest group being the rationalist of the pragmatists in the middle, are almost tuned out to the main events that are going on all around them. And the main bent is basically the right wing and the left wing. Okay, the baby boomer thing, the left and the and the traditionalist and the Republican Party being the right.
55:38
SM: How do you deal with another criticism is given to the boomers. And that is that, again, oftentimes, I have read this, ah jeeze, there is seventy-five million people only 15 percent, were ever really involved in any kind of an activism. So that is, you know, for them 85 percent of seventy-five million, that is not, you know, that is not, that means a lot of people did not care, a lot of people were not involved in the generation.
56:06
RD: The baby boomers?
56:06
SM: The baby boomers.
56:07
RD: Uh huh.
56:08
SM: But the common I have always said, you need to talk about 15 percent of seventy to seventy-five million, that is a hell of a lot of people.
56:15
RD: Yeah.
56:15
SM: And secondly, I just like your thoughts, because it seems to me that the subconscious is just as important as the conscience here. And so, we might say that 15 percent were involved in activism, but the other 85 percent had to be affective somewhat because they were part of something. Unless they were closed in a room someplace away from, it really had to affect them in some way.
56:41
RD: Yeah.
56:41
SM: And, and, and I think, so I liked your thoughts on that. That is another criticism given to the boomers. And secondly, the influence of boomers have had on their kids, and now grandkids in terms of passing on this sense of activism, or lack thereof, just your thoughts on a two part question there.
56:59
RD: I agree with what you are saying, you know, 15 percent of a society is a huge number, quite honestly, 2 percent of a society produces critical mass. Critical mass starts to develop this mysterious thing that our science as an "envi" is the Hundredth Monkey Effect. I say our science because they, you know, it was WWII you know, they went on to an island where no human beings have been and monkeys watched, you know, the Americans doing their thing and pretty soon the monkey started washing their hands and peeling the bananas like humans did. And that was, you know, observed scientifically and noted. But then islands that were nearby that had no contact at all, the monkeys started to peel their bananas and wash their hands, as well. And so, there is a transfer of some, some mechanism is occurring, or at least it theorizes by the Hundredth Monkey Effect, that a small group of people reaching a certain critical mass can profoundly affect the entirety of humanity. And, you know, I could give you my own science on that, but that is not necessarily for this purpose, you know. You would have to come tonight for that.
58:26
SM: Right.
58:27
RD: But, you know, there is a science to it, there really is and so you are on to it, you know.
58:33
SM: Right.
58:35
RD: A relatively small group of people still reaching critical mass, but changing their awareness changing how they see the world, changing their perception can have a positive or a negative effect, depending on what the change is.
58:51
SM: Is not that was the Peace Corps was about?
58:53
RD: Well, I guess so, you know, that is the that is the vision of going out and, you know, creating examples and being an example of bringing your enthusiasm into an area where basically is- a little drudgery and hard work and suddenly, you have got creativity and excitement and new and a helping hand carrying some water buckets too. It is certainly the concept. The thing is, though, that what the baby boomers seem unable to see in their expanded awareness, is that the people that are opposed to them. Let me see if I can explain this. A lot of baby boomers today have moved from politics and the (19)60s into more of personal growth. They are still political, they still vote, they still do things. But when it really comes down to what they are doing, they are a little more aligned, many of them okay, to the works of Deepak Chopra, or Wayne Dyer. They would go to a workshop that proposes the concept that you create your own reality. You are not a victim in the world, you can get back your life, you can take the reins of your life and there is, you want a positive attitude. Taking care of your health is an individual responsibility, not a governmental responsibility. You know, let us, let us stop the blame a little bit and work on ourselves. Okay, so I would say there is a progression going on in the baby boomers from the (19)60s into the you saw it at the end of the (19)60s and the early seventies. I mean, John Lennon goes to India, you know, sits with Mahatma, you know, the transcendental meditation guy.
1:01:10
SM: He just died last year.
1:01:13
RD: Yeah. You know, you had you know, a spiritual thing occurring kind of you know, gurus, you know, it was not so much the gurus, it was just looking for a new spirituality and the inner world. Well, that now we are all grown up, and we all have jobs, and we can put on suits. And we can talk a little more so that people can hear us. But if we are doing something, somewhere, as a baby boomer, if you were really to look at it, there is one group of activity that is raising money for health care, supporting the Al Gore campaign in some manner. There is that side, but there is also a huge side in personal growth, personal development, Tony Robbins, Wayne Dyer, I mean, Wayne Dyer, you know make some amazing statements, when you think about it, and he is on NPR, or PBS or whatever, you know, he is a national
1:02:15
SM: Right.
1:02:15
RD: Speaker, you know, saying that, basically, if you want to change the experiences of your life, you have to change yourself. So, in the (19)60s, most people that were activists never thought about Mahatma Gandhi. If you want change the world, you have to change yourself. Okay. But John Lennon when he came into the movement, that is what he thought he did. He was coming into that and what I am trying to say is that there is a deep river underneath the baby boomers that you might want to take note of, okay, which is about, if you want to change the world, you have to change yourself. That is the concept. Now, it turns out, going way into the future, which is, you know, probably, uniquely, something I would do, but I do not know others will really want to do that. I would say that the greatest discovery in the history of the world, which is yet to be made, but it is still it right in front of us. It is not way off either. It is not, it could come from the cultural creatives, but maybe more likely, it is going to come from the field of particle physics, especially this new particle collider outside of Geneva. Okay, so what it is, is that here is the commonsense opinion of everybody on Earth, whether you are a cultural creative, a baby boomer, or a traditionalist okay? Bad things happen for no reason at all. Okay? Things outside myself are real.
1:03:51
SM: Right?
1:03:52
RD: The world outside myself is solid, objective, and independent of myself. This is the everybody okay? I do not care who you are. I mean, everybody operates as if that was the truth or the, the physics let us call it the physics of this world. Well, it turns out that that is not the physics of this world at all, is completely misinformed. The only comparison historically that you could find, I think, is in the sixteenth century. I mean, you got the earth is stable in space, and the sun orbits the Earth. And what I mean, just look out the window, those clouds are slow moving, the idea that the earth is hurtling through space at 67,000 miles an hour around the Sun is absurd. And you know, and then one man Nicholas Copernicus makes the argument that sorry, but everybody on earth is completely misinformed. Well, it is very similar today to the greatest discovery ever is that this world and this can come from a true understanding of the atom, The atom is operating on a mirror principle. It is simply reflecting back to you your own residual self-image. No one is doing anything to you. No one has ever done anything to you. The origin of everything you are experiencing is coming from 60,000 thoughts across your brain every twenty-four hours. That is the origin of everything. Now the baby boomers do not know that. And the traditionalists do not do that, and no human being on earth really understands that. But the baby boomers, especially this underlying river, about personal growth, you know, that sort of thing, are in a direction that is very similar to the field of particle physics. So, who is going to win the Nobel Prize for making the world's greatest discovery could be particle physics, understanding the mystery of the atom, or could be cultural creatives understanding the mystery of their self? Okay, either both basically produce the same discovery that it is all coming from you. Now, this is a devastating concept to every political system on Earth. That is that absolutely is rooted in the blame game. And, and it now makes mincemeat of Glenn Beck and Keith Olbermann, there is no, I mean what can you say.
1:06:21
SM: Did you go on TV and talk about this?
1:06:23
RD: No.
1:06:23
SM: Have you been invited?
1:06:25
RD: I do not know, I do not really seek out an invitation to this thing that I am doing right here today is a completely brand-new thing for me, you know, I mean, I am writing a book, is what I am doing, you know, and the book will, is profound for me just completely profound, and many, many subjects are addressed. And that is really my focus right now that would be my legacy. I would like to look, look away in the future and bring it right back to the present. But I do that, I mean, if you were to come tomorrow at the workshop, now, this is not an encouragement to come.
1:07:10
SM: Cannot go I have two winter meetings.
1:07:12
RD: What you will see is, not many people will come, you know, a few people will show up, but it will be the most impactful life changing event that they have ever had. I mean, they will feel like, their whole life has been waiting for this moment, that pretty much you know, if I do anything that is, and people can hang in there, you know, that is usually what it does.
1:07:35
SM: Right.
1:07:35
RD: It is quite a big deal, you know. But anyway, I see the baby boomers as being the seeds for a change of awareness. Ultimately, you know, starting with the (19)60s, going into nature, returning to the world, wanting to make the world a better place, environment, that sort of thing, keeping the spiritual side. And then the work to the extent that, you know, for a lot of people, Wayne Dyer, you know, he paused. It is a- it is not, I am just using them as archetypes. Not that they are the all that important. But inner work. You know, meditation is not weird or funny to a lot of these baby boomers, they may not talk about it. And they definitely think they are the only one who thinks this way. They do not recognize the collective, you know. I mean, they still think they are all by themselves. And it just even though there is 30 percent of the country is now makes up this group. They still think they are- no one thinks like me. But they are, they are the best possibility. Because what I understand is what is about to happen on earth. And what is about to happen on earth is you will never understand it unless you can understand evolution. So evolution is where an awareness change changes, okay? That- It is unheard of. We have no knowledge of it as a human race, okay? Because it is never here is the beginning of human, human there was there was something before human and then it was human. And then humans Marshall long. And now, this is the generation where human’s kind of come to a place where they are either going to evolve or they are not.
1:09:30
SM: Yeah, there is no.
1:09:32
RD: Right or wrong about it. There is just evolution is coming through with you or without you basically, yeah, so the, the baby boomers are, you know, may not make this jump. They may not, you know, because they fund the fundamental jump is partly even contemplated, or even considered by anybody, except those that are doing this inner work. They do not live it, but they understand it. They have been exposed to it; you know. So the awareness is that I mean, here would be the short version. The only power tool that you have as a human being is perception. So, the whole world, reflects your own perception. So how you see others is how you see yourself. How you see yourself is how you experience the world. This is not a philosophy, this is a physics, this is how it works. Okay? Now, it these details, a lot of information will defend that position, but I am able to defend it in detail to a science. Completely, you know, to the point where people will either think I am a great theoretician or run out of the room. But perception, it is all coming from ourselves from inside the world is not objective, real or solid. The world is a psychological construct whose origin is yourself. And the case is made by understanding the atom.
1:11:05
SM: That is going to be in that is going to be in your book.
1:11:07
RD: Yeah.
1:11:07
SM: When is the book supposed to be out? Are you going to go on college campuses? Because I think you need to.
1:11:13
RD: I would like to, you know, if I had good speaker’s bureau, and somebody who can you know, gets what I am a little bit. I think going back on campuses, which would be cool. You know, I am dabbling with that I have been, I kind of dropped out for fifteen years, I have not really talked to anybody you know.
1:11:28
SM: I think it would be really good on college campuses, there is just this whole-
1:11:34
RD: My answer to that, you know, the choice of birth, who chooses the parent? Does the child choose the parents or whose parents choose the child? The answer is the child chooses the parent every time to choose is the death? The Mack truck that runs out of control comes across the divide and is heading right your way. And the truck drivers little drunk to boot, you know? Is that the accident that was completely? Or are you yourself creating this whole experience? Meaning the truck coming right at you okay, or her? Okay? Well, it is, it is very challenging at this stage of awareness to even hear it, you know, because the fact is, is that she created her own timing her own death, her own way of going out. It was probably created before she was born. By herself.
1:12:29
SM: The drunk driver that killed her.
1:12:30
RD: I am sure there was, but I know. So, what I am saying is that the entire world of victim is self-inflicted. No one is doing anything to you. Therefore, everything I did in the (19)60s was a misunderstanding. As soon as you blame anyone for anything in your life, you turn your power over. And this is a huge, this is huge and you know.
1:13:03
SM: This is the change that Tom was asking you about? Right. Tom was?
1:13:07
RD: Yeah. I mean, Tom does not know about this but yeah, I mean, it was. So, you know, I have been on my own journey to kind of come around slowly to a point of view. And I have been the beneficiary of a lot of understanding not unlike Einstein got his information in waking dreams. You know, Einstein did not figure out the speed of light all by himself without any scientific instrumentation any more than Mozart wrote a perfect Sonata at age six. first draft and no changes, you know. He had help, you know. So I have help too you know. And that is fine. You know, I am not trying to be anything with it. You know, I have messenger. So to speak.
1:13:50
SM: I have a couple more questions that I just had some names here. Would you like to have some coffee now?
1:13:56
RD: I do not know. I am pretty good, actually.
1:13:59
SM: Sure, you do not want coffee?
1:14:01
RD: What time are we getting to here, ten to four. I do need a little bit of time to you know, get oriented.
1:14:07
SM: We have got about another twenty minutes.
1:14:09
RD: Okay, that sounds good. Yeah.
1:14:10
SM: I want to ask you, when did the (19)60s end, in your opinion when did the (19)60s end and what was the watershed moment that made it end?
1:14:19
RD: Well, for me, it is more how I would answer it, then some sociological understanding. You know, the big blowout event was the student strike in the spring of 1970 over Cambodia and Kent State right. Then comes Time magazine with the cover story "The Cooling of America" and basically for some people they would say that was the end right there. I mean, you could not get any you could not get SDS. SDS was now down to the hardcore was not like a big mass thing anymore. Nobody came. I wanted to go to Washington to do civil disobedience at that time. And I was the coordinator of the antiwar coalition at that time. And the coalition rejected my proposal, because they just did not see how it was possible and that it would fail. And so I actually went out on my own. Now, when I went on to a campus, everybody was still right there, everyone wanted to know what was happening, and personality showing up brought I mean, you know, the smallest group I had was 10,000 people anywhere I went, you know. Nobody could get twenty-five people in a room, but they would all come and hear me. And so, I realized, so when the- we had the opening day of the demonstration, I have 350,000 people, and one week later getting ready to be arrested 100,000 people. So then at that point when that was over, I thought, okay, this, it is over. You know, I mean, whatever that magic was, it is over. But then I was watching television and on comes John Lennon and Yoko Ono, okay, sitting in a bed in Canada, somewhere and they are clearly I mean, it is a little strange press conference, but I realized they are coming into the movement. And so pretty soon I am you know, I am in John Lennon's apartment, and we are planning to bring a million people to the republican convention. And our first we are going to tour the country. John's going to play. I am going to speak we will all have speakers and entertain, you know, we will have guests, entertainers and now we have gone to Ann Arbor first 25,000 seat venue, the show sells out in forty-five minutes. Stevie Wonder is the unannounced guest entertainer, my guest speakers of the Chicago Seven, you know, and we are High Five, you know this. So suddenly, John Lennon basically, individually breathes life right back into the whole thing again. And then Nixon comes down on Lennon and basically pulls the plug and starts deportation proceedings, and John has pull out. And so, I for me, that is where I was. Now I kept doing things I went to, the republicans changed their convention site to Miami, I went there. But you know, we had like, 10,000 people, we did not have a million people. I did a forty-two-day water fast to try to give a little, you know, oomph to the whole thing, you know, then, when Nixon was inaugurated, we did put 100,000 people on the ellipse or whatever, that the White House area. And then I went to Paris to be a part of the peace talks, or the signing of the Peace Accord. And I would say, I mean, to me when John Lennon left, that was it. We had 100,000 people at Nixon's inauguration. That was a little last fling, you know, and after that for me personally, it was over. I mean, there were subtle stuff going on things but not, you know, whatever it was, it was done.
1:18:31
SM: Just you are, this does not have to be an in-depth response. But all of those movements that happen that the antiwar movement, obviously in the civil rights movement, the women's movement, Chicano gay, and lesbian, environmental movement, they all came about around that time, how important were boomers and all those movements?
1:18:48
RD: Totally important.
1:18:49
SM: Because some people say, criticized the boomers as not being that important in the civil rights movement, because basically, it was already done, by the time they were eighteen years old.
1:18:59
RD: Yeah. Okay. Maybe? Well, it is true, maybe from a definitional point of view, see, I just see it all as one continuous thing. And I am not so fixated on these ages, the fact that people were in high school, when, you know, I was doing, you know, Cambodia stuff. You know, I just saw that whole spectrum as the same thing. You know, the, the civil rights movement had gone on for a long time. But it was the popular base, it was the country and that is now what do we want to call these? I mean, do you want to call the (19)60s generation the boomers? I mean, to me, 1960 up to 1973 is the period that we are talking about here. And for me, it was all one thing you know, now you are trying to do a book on the boomers and maybe the boomers are a more specialized element or component within that spectrum. And that is for you to sort out, you know, but for me, the sense that we are together, the sense that we are changing, the sense that we are experimenting, that we were open, we were, were exploring big picture thinking much like the founding fathers, were, we were about changing ourselves to change the world, we were going to change the world, we are going to make the world a better place. That was a thirteen-year window. That for me was one thing, the group that came in, you know, and did all this did not seem to quite fit the boomer age requirements or something, you know. It was 1960 college students, 1973, which included boomers, adults, you know, all kinds of people all through society, they've been brought along by that whole momentum, that entire constituency, is what turned on and then turned off.
1:21:06
SM: What do you think? You told me your story about with your dad and the farm and so forth in the 1960s but what happened in the 1950s, to these children during their elementary school years and beginning of junior high? They were given everything by their parents. Well, you know, of course, you are talking about, you know, you can talk about economics, that you talked about poor whites, and Appalachia talk about African Americans, the United States, their story, obviously, is quite different. But a lot of white students at that particular time were given a lot by their parents, because they've been through the Depression. Why did these young people who basically had everything rebel against like, I always think of that IBM image of five people of walking out of a house with a hat and going to work and everything. The IBM image.
1:22:00
RD: Yeah, well.
1:22:02
SM: They went to the university, and they, the multiversity.
1:22:06
RD: Well in, in the way that what you have been calling the baby boomers created a cushion and popular climate for black people, women and all these political movements to get a get a footing and get things going. The parents of the students, that it created a certain economic security, middle class life, that sort of thing. So that money, was not worried about, you know, money was not something, you grow up, just, you know, you know, you start farming when you are eight years old, and you know, it is day and night day and night. That, that sense of survival was removed. Thank you, Mom and Dad. And, and so it became possible to have a mindset in the, as a student, and particularly in the (19)60s, where you did not worry about it, you know. And you criticized the parents for being you, whatever, you know, put a spin on it. But the fact is, it created a base for. It is very similar to any society that begins to create a little bit of leisure, a little bit of relax. Time for a vacation, you know, an opportunity to go on a sabbatical and a retreat, you know. I think it can go degrade but also it goes creative, into philosophy and reflection and big picture thinking and, you know, positive human things. So, I, I do not see it as a negative at all, I see it as a steppingstone of evolution, I see humanity through the eyes of evolution. And I see that this whole (19)60s period as a precursor to something else that is coming. Call it change of awareness.
1:24:10
SM: One or two more questions that I just had and just quick responses, and we will finish here. This is the issue of trust, because you got into the issue of healing. One of the things I found in the, from the time I first interviewed Eugene McCarthy, just about every interview for Vietnam vets and activists like Tom Hayden is this issue of trust is something or lack thereof, many of the boomers had. Trust of leaders
1:24:35
RD: Of leaders yeah.
1:24:36
SM: And I say this because it is not just Lyndon Johnson in the Gulf of Tonkin. It is Richard Nixon and Watergate. It is as we bring you read and even the time we have learned about John Kennedy and what happened the Diem. We have learned we saw on national television, U2 the lie that Eisenhower. I mean, he lied to the American public on TV in 1959. And I know he went to his grave regretting it. But this ongoing there is no trust in religious leaders, no trust in university presidents, I know in our campus any administrator, no trusted anybody a position of responsibility no matter what they were, the question I am asking you basically is, is this a characteristic that has gotten within this group? And has this been passed on to their kids and their grandkids now? So that we have now three generations with lack of trust. And I can remember a psychology professor and my 101 class in college saying in the very beginning doctor Price at Binghamton he said, if you do not trust in your life, somebody, then you are going to have a pretty miserable life. You have got to be able to trust somebody. Just your thought on this trust businesses, even part of what we have been talking about here today.
1:25:55
RD: I do not think so, you know, I went to Vietnam, I saw Hanoi being bombed every day, I came back and made statements to the press about what I saw, the Pentagon came out and said, I had been brainwashed. And I was in shock, because I realized that this is a government agency, communicating to the public something that I absolutely know, from my own direct experiences is, is a lie. It is not, you know, there is a manipulation going on a public opinion, that I found at that stage of my life to be, you know, shocking, and startling, you know, because I did not think that really existed that way, you know. And so, there were many things like that that occurred in the (19)60s that sort of deepened that. I would say, though, that distrust of big government is also, you know, what you are seeing a lot with Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and Tea Parties. You know, it is, it is all over the place. The real question is, does a president let us say, if you do not trust the president or the government, that you elected, okay, is, what is the real relationship here? Is the is the trust inside yourself? That basically all that is really happening is you do not really trust yourself therefore, the, the government that represents you, you do not trust that either. It is a mirror principle; it is mirroring back to your own lack of trust. Now, lack of trust, from that perspective, seems to define every single generation of this country. It is hard to find a single generation that had trust, I mean, maybe periods somewhat better, but or, for that matter, the entire human condition of the whole of humanity has been. Here is the belief: bad things happen for no reason at all. If one thing does not get me something else will. And victim is the nature of this world. Bad things happen for no reason at all. And is this really the nature of our world? Well, the answer is, of course, it is the nature of this world, as long as this is our own residual self-image. Because the world reflects back to us whatever we however, we see ourselves as a physics principle. So will humanity at this stage of evolution run off the cliff and kill herself off? Maybe, you know, maybe, and will those contributing to it be the traditionalists are the baby boomer? Both. It is not about which side you are on. It is about side taking itself. It is about the attack of whatever you condemn is what you are going to experience. Let us put it that way. Whatever you fear is what you are going to attract. Let us put it that way. So this does not, this understanding does not presently exists in human awareness. You know, there has been little philosophy, seeds drop from time to time, but I am saying that this is the way it works. Okay. And that this will be discovered. And will the baby boomers be able to get it. Those that are basically doing this reflective work this inner work as personal growth would be the place that I would put my best hope right now, for a group of people being able to heroes. Oh, I will lay this out tonight. And this group will, you know, they will have a few people might have a problem because they came to hear about the (19)60s. But for the most part, even if it is a small group, everybody will be there. What they will appreciate is that I am so thorough, and I have such a commanding understanding of it. And I am so formidable in the details that it is a breath of fresh air. But the big thing is I create my own reality. If you want to change the world, you have to change yourself these themes, okay, are already there. They are very small. They are an underlying river of the group that we are talking about here. And this is really where humanity is going. Okay, one day, there will be no judgement at all of anybody. Humanity is currently in a stage of awareness that I would call the journey of good and evil. I am right, and you are wrong. ok? As opposed to whatever I am experiencing, I am creating myself, I do not like it, I change myself. That is a completely different way of thinking. A million years in the future, everybody will understand what I am talking about.
1:26:17
SM: I think a lot of people fear what is upcoming.
1:31:13
RD: Yeah, and the fear brings it off.
1:31:15
SM: I think, for example, last night on the news, because of the situation in Iran, and nuclear, ok? They are talking about another cold war now. I am saying another fifty years of Cold War [inaudible] Iran out because [inaudible] of course if they do, then who knows what could happen? So, we are really heading into a really.
1:31:38
RD: Absolutely. We are going into hysteria. That leads to war, that is the current direction. What I am trying to say to you, which if you will, really
1:31:52
SM: Testing 123 testing.
1:32:03
RD: This is a very, very-
1:32:05
SM: I have some questions for you to kind of respond, just insert responses and just your feelings. What does the wall mean to you? What does the Vietnam Memorial mean to you? And when you went to the Wall for the first time, what kind of effect would that have on you?
1:32:22
RD: Well, you know, I did not quite get caught up in the emotions, probably of the family that lost their son, or, you know, that that sort of thing. I have just as much regard for the, the, you know, the Vietnamese that lost their lives by maybe 1000 to one over with the Americans, I do not know what the ratio is, but you know, it was a lot, you know, so, you know. It was a tragedy, you know, there was no doubt about it. And to remember the fallen and those that died and sacrificed their lives, you know, seems to be, you know, appropriate. Quite honestly, in my picture, though, it is, I would, I would feel the same way about the wall that I would feel about all the monuments of World War II all the monuments in World War I, all the monuments of everybody that died in inquisitions in the Middle Ages, and all the way back. I mean, we are a warring species. I also know that people choose their own time of death. Okay, and so therefore, I do not get all guilt ridden and blame oriented over any death. Okay. In the history of the universe, no one has died so far. Which is quite a statement, you know, and so, so I do not really quiet, I do not mean to see callous, because I am not, you know, I would like to end the dead zone entirely. I think. Death is a human creation. You know, death is the issue, that humans have created that as a collective. And so what we need to do is to get out of our anti- life strategies in thinking and into a pro-life strategy. And I do not mean the life thing of the portion move right at all, you know, I mean, to the abortion people, I would say that all abortions are chosen by the child, not the mother. I mean, that would be blasphemy, you know, and there is reasons for it, you know, so the, the morality of the thing is just confused. People do not even understand the fundamentals of death and what happens, no one knows what happens when you die. Or the idea that the soldier chooses his own time of death, goes to Vietnam to do it is just wow, you know.
1:34:40
SM: I remember, Elisabeth Kubler Ross is the one that was very popular talking about death.
1:34:45
RD: Yeah.
1:34:46
SM: Then she finally died.
1:34:47
RD: Right. Yeah. That seems to happen everywhere.
1:34:50
SM: Yep.
1:34:50
RD: So, I have a little different thing with it, I guess.
1:34:52
SM: I guess. What does Kent State and Jackson State mean to you?
1:34:56
RD: Well, I mean, it was a trigger point, and it was shocking, you know, American citizens being shot by National Guard troops was amazing and Jackson State was another trigger point. So, I do not know, I do not really have much of a story about it. I mean, I was a part of the Chicago seven, we call for a nationwide student strike in response at Kent State and 90 percent of the universities in this country walked out of school. So I could say I was, I was involved. I remember it. But right now, what I care about is how can humanity survive? You know, so going down memory lane, okay, over a bunch of misunderstandings in the first place, you know, does not really draw me in, you know, I mean, it is, it is all fine. But
1:35:49
SM: What does Watergate mean to you?
1:35:51
RD: [laughs] Well, it is back to that trust issue, I suppose or back to, you know, my coming back from Vietnam being horrified that, you know, the Pentagon would actually issue misstatements about, you know, things that I knew better. It is, it is very easy to keep the blame on Nixon. Okay, and basically, that Nixon was a control freak, who abused his power as a president, and, you know, ruined the legitimacy of the office, by senseless act of burglary, you know, against the opposition party, is one of the great stains on the democratic tradition. I mean, everybody would probably say something along those lines, you know. I would say that Nixon was a reflection of the American people. The things that Nixon was doing, was basically being represented by the aggregate of thoughts inside the country. If you wanted to understand the petty theft, the burglary, the disrespect for other people's personal property, the horrors that you want to push on the Nixon, then just look at yourself, because the American people are the origin of Watergate. Nixon is merely a mirror. Nixon is merely a reason I am not, you know, saying he did not do it. I am not saying anything like that. I am just saying, what is the origin of the things that we get so upset about? Watergate - the origin is ourselves. So, and now, if we could ever understand that, that is a future world. Okay, that is what is going to transform this planet. And it is pretty hard to imagine, but one day, it will happen. Well, I
1:37:53
SM: Have right here because I know your name the year 1968. Yeah, just that whole year, and of course, the Democratic Convention and then, of course, Chicago eight and Chicago seven, could you reflect on what happened in Chicago that year and then the trial? How do you look at it now?
1:38:15
RD: Like a past life! I would say that, you know, I like the fact that when I go speak, I would get a large turnout, because people sort of thought that I was important to hear or something like that. And I had that pretty much from the get-go in the (19)60s. But then when Chicago started, everything was transformed. I mean, I was on I was doing a press conference, it was carried by all three networks, pretty much every single day from mid-July, through the convention. And then after that, I was indicted. And after that, I was, I was in a presidential size press conference for six months. And so that changed my relationship to the public. You know, when I came to Washington, DC, like we are right now, I would, you know, I could not really sit here like this. I mean, people would come up, you know, like, like a celebrity, like a Hollywood type of thing, you know, what my autograph or have something mean to say! Or, you know, everybody, I was a recognizable figure and that for me personally, that was more how things changed, okay for the trial and Chicago you know. And then May Day too. After that things sort of wore down a little bit and I like that, you know, looking back now it is interesting. You know, it is it is a part of my life, I grew from it and so forth. But I so love where I am now. And, and everything for me has been a steppingstone to right now. And so I feel I finally have maybe something to actually contribute for the first time in my whole life right now. So it is not so much. I look back and you know, get all teary eyed or, you know or nostalgia about how the great days in the past.
1:40:08
SM: I have always wondered how a person like you and Tom Hayden and a lot of the other, a lot of my friends were arrested too in smaller protests but, feelings of being arrested, going to jail, and you ever thought, even when you were young, this is going to have a negative effect on me when I am fifty?
1:40:30
RD: Yeah
1:40:30
SM: Which is what a lot of people are writing about today that the reason why young people are not like, people, the (19)60s or the boomers is that they want, they do not want anything on their record, and it will be on the record, and they will never be hired.
1:40:44
RD: Yeah, right. I can, I can understand how the nature of social consciousness sets in and so forth. It was just a different time. And especially for someone like myself, I mean, a lot of people went to jail, and you know, if some got beaten up and tortured, you know, for their protest against discrimination or racism. It was, was not that way with me. But when I went to jail after the trial, we went to jail for two weeks, basically, until we raised money for appeal got out on bond. I mean, the, that night, there were 30,000 people outside the jail. When I went in, it would be like being Al Capone. Okay. I mean, in a positive way, to me, the inmates saw me as a hero, you know, for standing up to the judge. It was not like it was some oppressive, terrible. I mean, no, I was like, they were the whole prison was a fan club. You know, it was the largest riot in American history. The night I went to jail. I mean, more people rioted okay. I mean, burned down banks. And you know, I am not saying that is a greatest thing. I am just saying, we produced the largest riot in American history. But when we look at it, you felt before and whenever I have gone to jail, it was more, theatrics and support, you know, it was not like, the way everybody else goes to jail. You know, it was not so I cannot really have I do not have any complaints about the times I have gone to jail. You know, it was all kind of cool. Really.
1:42:22
SM: Just real quick thoughts here. Your thoughts on hippies and yippies. Just a, because you knew Abbie, and you knew Jerry, just your thought on the whole yippie group.
1:42:34
RD: Well, there was a cultural phenomena going on, you know, dress, love, trust, you know, probably some pot in there too. You know, it was a cultural thing, young people. And you know, Abby and Jerry were a little bit more like me. They were political but their base was more the culture. And so, what they were trying to do is to politicize the culture a little bit, get them a little more into the issues, but at the same time, give voice and expression to the culture. And so, you know, I am sure in a drug induced night, you know, they came up with youth international party. And then they called it 'yippie' you know.
1:43:27
SM: Jerry Rubin in his book, "Do it." Remember that?
1:43:29
RD: Yeah. Yeah.
1:43:30
SM: He said that. They were they did not know what the name their group, and then somebody was yelling in the background, "yippie" and he was like, there is, the- we will name it the yippies. You know it is interesting. this is just an anecdote. If you knew Abbie. A lot of people make fun of him. And that really upsets me because I remember when he passed away, he committed suicide and it was over in Bucks County now apart from Philadelphia. And I remember they did a bigger article in the Philadelphia Inquirer about him. And he had left the note when he killed himself, and he supposedly had only $2,000 in the bank. And in the note that he left was "no one is listening to me anymore." How sad. Because when you, because I remember when you came on the Phil Donahue show, after he came out of hiding and changed his nose or whatever. He had been working on the Hudson River, saving the Hudson River for years, unbeknownst to the American public. And a lot of people said that worthless son-of-a-gun. You know, he just a, but in reality was a person of substance. I felt-
1:44:35
RD: Yeah.
1:44:36
SM: And it was sad that he killed himself.
1:44:38
RD: Well, I do not know. Sad, I mean, maybe. We create our own experiences out of, out of. So, you know, basically, his ego got inflated in the (19)60s and then when it went down to being a normal person again, his ego could not handle it. So let us check out. I do not have a judgment about it. I do not call it sad, but I do not call it egotistical either. I you know, it just the way he chose to unfold himself. What I would say about Abby that I truly appreciated it was that Abbie taught me the great value of humor. And I saw I mean, we were, he came out and supported me during the May Day demonstrations when no one else did in the coalition. And as a result of his support, it was the two of us that got indicted for that. And we got off, they dropped the charges, but we are facing twenty years in jail. And on the day of the big arrest, you know, I mean, it is the biggest arrest in American history. We were arrested and we were being taken into the Justice Department, by the FBI, a large number of the maybe twenty men, okay, and Abbie was behind me, and I was in front, and we were marching down this empty corridor. And I would say, it was a fearful environment where the, the level of seriousness and hatred for us, okay, although professional, okay, was just, you know, I mean, it was not time to crack jokes, okay. It was, it was more like being in a concentration camp. I mean, it was a pretty serious moment, we are facing twenty years, we have no idea what is going to be dropped or anything like that. It was a very serious moment, I thought. And Abby just started making jokes with the guys that were with him. And, and he was just, it was breathtaking. I mean, in no time at all, he had the entire group of FBI agents, just friendly, laughing. Just, I mean, he just disarmed the whole mood and tenor of the whole thing, you know. And I saw him do that quite a few occasions. And I, I found that part of him to be totally inspiring. I mean, I tried to do better in that department myself, but I could not I could never compete with him. He was the best. He was, he was great. He was funny. He was a funny guy. And he was full of love and life and joy.
1:47:19
SM: "Steal this book"
1:47:20
RD: Yeah, Steal this Book.
1:47:21
SM: A lot of people stole it!
1:47:22
RD: Yeah, I am sure they did!
1:47:25
SM: The Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Young Americans for Freedom, which were conservative, just your thoughts on those groups. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War kind of took over for SDS because SDS was waning, and they kind of took over the antiwar movement in those early seventies.
1:47:43
RD: I do not know, SDS was more to me, taken over by The Weathermen.
1:47:47
SM: Oh, yeah well, they kind of, violence.
1:47:50
RD: The vets, you know, the vets um, you know, everything kind of sort of went downhill a little bit as the ending occurred, you know. The, I mean, you had the John Kerry event, at the May Day demonstration with veterans to turning in their medals. You know, it was a pretty, you know, in a way, their way, a high minded thing, and bitterness and anger and that sort of thing, you know, as the dominant theme that came a little later, you know. And the Young Americans for Freedom was, you know, the current, I mean, sort of, you know, it was just a right wing group that, you know, were trying to hold on to traditional values. And, you know, use attack, and defend mode, it was a local thing, I do not really have a comment about that just side taking again you know.
1:48:44
SM: I am going to throw names, and then real quick responses and then, that is it. I am going start with Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubins.
1:48:52
RD: Well, I told you about Abby, I think Abbie was pretty cool. And, you know, and I know, he checked out and they went that way. You know, I guess, you know, would have been nice if I could have talked to him before that. But I did not so you know, it is what it is. I do not have any judgment about it. You know, Jerry, same thing he checked out, you know. I mean, Jerry went into trying to make some money, you know, and, you know, network marketing. He was kind of cool, but he fought a lot. Very analytical thinking, pretty intense, you know, this is broke, something was wrong.
1:49:26
SM: He was killed jaywalking.
1:49:28
RD: But he just, you know, he was not paying attention to the world that he was in and he- But, you know, it did not mean that he was wrong. It did not mean that he did not choose to die in that way. That is how he chose to leave. So that is fine.
1:49:43
SM: How about Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda?
RD: Well, I went on to a military base, I think it was in North Carolina, we had a coffee shop that I had helped organize to support GI's called SOS, Support our Soldiers. Jane came down and you know, came to the coffee house. She was with Tom at this point. I mean, and Jane said, well, let us go on to the base. And so, we went on to the base, and you know, and in a second, we were surrounded by 20,000 troops. And it was, it gave me an appreciation but I thought it took a lot of courage. You know, I mean, I, I had a lot of courage too but I never expected it from anybody else. Jane Fonda I mean you could have lost your life right there. You know, he was very intense. And so I like Jane, and I thought she stood her ground. And she was, you know, spoke what she believed and, you know, she has moved on like everybody else now. I tip my hat to her for her courage and courage is what stands out for me about Jane Fonda. Tom is a friend, you know, Tom, and I were partners all the way. You know, I, I know I disappointed him when I kind of took a turn on the road went inward. And that even today, and it is not really, you know, understood, you know what happened. And I do not understand it really about it. But I know that I disappointed him. But he was mature. And he has kind of moved on. So, when we see each other now from time to time, you know, he is beautiful, you know, I put on an event at the summit. And, you know, at 1992 I guess it was in Brazil and you know, Tom flew down to be a part of my event. It was really cool.
SM: He has gotten a brand-new book out to you know? "(19)60s Activism" yeah.
1:51:53
RD: So that is what it is called?
1:51:54
SM: He did the book "Reunion" which was very popular in paperback, then he wrote a book on Ireland because he loves the Irish.
1:52:01
RD: Yeah, he does.
1:52:02
SM: Then he has gotten involved with the gangs, talking about the guns in LA.
1:52:05
RD: Is that what his current book is on?
1:52:07
SM: No, no, no, this has nothing to do with the gangs, it is about the whole (19)60s movement, the (19)60s period. Putting it all in a capsule.
1:52:14
RD: He is a good writer, and a great speaker, and I you know, he is a smart guy.
1:52:19
SM: How about Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern.
1:52:24
RD: I like Gene McCarthy. I really did. You know, I was so surprised by what happened you know? I mean, I thought we would bring a half million people to Chicago. But you know, I also thought Linda Johnson was going to be the nominee.
1:52:37
SM: Oh, I know!
1:52:38
RD: Ben Johnson withdraws and then Gene McCarthy comes in second. And I mean, or wins I forget, when did it come in second, or win?
1:52:45
SM: Well, he came in second.
1:52:46
RD: Second, yeah so anyway, you know, it was just like, wow, you know, suddenly, you know, everything was moving back into power to electoral politics, you know, which was not where I was at, at the time. But, you know, I, you know, and then just recently we, in 1996, the Democrats went back to Chicago, and I was a hermit, you know, I was living in the Grand Canyon, and I had not talked to anybody, you know, and I did not talk to an adult for four years. And so, I was really inward, you could say, but I felt to go, and I did and, and, you know, immediately I am on Larry King Live, and there is Gene McCarthy, you know? And, you know, I thought he was a good man. Really. I liked him.
1:53:37
SM: How about McGovern?
1:53:38
RD: Yeah, well, I, you know, I liked him, too. I mean, he had the courage to make the run and the fact that, you know, it was an overwhelming, you know, point of view, different point of view by the country. What it takes to come to that level, I do not care who you are, I mean, you may be number two, but the when the party's nomination and the make a run for president is exhausting. It is exhausting. It takes everything to hold yourself together and articulate yourself over and over again, and, and make it credible. You know, I tip my hat to anybody who, you know, he attempts that and pulls that off. And so, you know, and then he and he stood for, you know, I thought good things. And so, yeah, I have nothing but fond memories for McGovern.
1:54:29
SM: The Kennedys. Certainly, Bobby and John and Martin Luther King, and Malcolm X. Could you get an interesting contrast between those four, just thoughts on those four gentlemen?
1:54:41
RD: Well, I thought Kennedy captured the spirit of the, of the of this group that I am talking about, you know? We ourselves may have not seen it that way. You know that. But he did. You know, he was the hope, he was the new generation. He was, you know, America trying to reach for its highest best philosophical side. And, you know, in that way, I think he is similar to Obama, you know, I do I thought for that time and everything. So you know, and he, I really respect the fact that he did so well, in the job that he had while going through so much physical pain. Pain is very tough to handle in any job. And as the President Roosevelt too, I mean, that is, that takes you know, as my admiration really does. Part of the king was a friend, I really thought highly of him. He also had the Mahatma Gandhi view, let us change yourself to change the world. You know, I met him first in Chicago, he had come to do an open housing march in Cicero. And he was very impressed that I was able to bring several thousand poor white people to that marsh. He went out of his way to; he just did not believe it was possible. But it was, you know! He kept hearing that we were coming and it was like, no way. And then when we showed up, and the people were cool, too. I mean, they were really there. Completely. They were not, you know.
1:56:26
SM: His Vietnam speech, too, was just incredible.
1:56:28
RD: Oh, it was incredible yeah, totally incredible. He was just one of those chosen guys. You know, mean, he really was. I never knew Malcolm X truthfully. So I mean, I followed his course and I did become good friends with Bobby Seale and sort of in a certain way, the Black Panther Party, and Malcolm X had a similar track. They were kind of on I guess.
1:56:55
SM: Your thoughts on the black power challenge of people like Dr. King and Byard Rustin and James Armour, Whitney Young, Roy Wilkins. There was a challenge to that group. Black Power all of a sudden, your time is past. Stokely Carmichael. There is a historic picture. We have only got five more minutes I know you are getting tired. But you probably remember that picture Stokely standing next to Martin and Martin was like this. Martin was pretty upset, because his time was passed.
1:57:25
RD: It is tough, you know, when you are when you are basically trying to build a nonviolent movement, and you know, within your own ranks there emerges, pick up guns, and, you know, let us, let us fight back and that sort of thing. You know, it is threatening your fundamental identity. And you try to put a good face on it, because, you know, they are important. They are young people; they are important to the movement. I mean, we had the same thing ourselves when I was trying to hold together a nonviolent coalition and in comes The Weatherman. And you know, and it was similar, you know, it was and these were friends and people I knew, and yet, there was a big disagreement on strategy and tactics. So you know, those are challenging moments and they are for anybody.
1:58:12
SM: I remember Dr. O'Neill from well, I interviewed the professor who wrote "Coming Apart" said he was the adviser to SDS at the University of Michigan. Then he went to Wisconsin, and he said, I did not know what I got myself into.
1:58:25
RD: Its very true.
1:58:27
SM: LBJ and Robert McNamara.
1:58:30
RD: What about it just reactions?
1:58:32
SM: To both Johnson and McNamara, Spiro Agnew, that whole group?
1:58:36
RD: Well, they are not all, to me they are all very different. You know, I think I was pretty judgmental about Lyndon Johnson in the (19)60s. But I do not feel like judgment today. I, you know, I think he was a hard working politician. Who just got over his head with Vietnam, as all Americans did? And, you know, it just more showed the lack of understanding of other cultures. You cannot win in Vietnam. You know, you could make the same argument. You cannot really militarily win in Afghanistan too. I do not know about Afghanistan, but I do know about Vietnam. And, you know, it was, I mean, the French were there fighting for 100 years, and then their military defeated at the Dien Bien Phu know, and when you study that, I mean, West Point studies that battle its brilliant. I mean, it is incredible. I mean, here is this, here is a society that can mobilize 3 million people at one time, you know, just no country can, you know overtake it. And when you understand their culture and how they have been doing this for 3,000, 2,000 years, you know, they defeated the nephew Genghis Khan in the thirteenth century, and people out in the rice paddies tell that story like it was yesterday or something. They just did not understand what they were dealing with.
2:00:01
SM: I think that Obama is going to find out the same thing about Afghanistan.
2:00:05
RD: I mean, that is the concern that people have. I do not know about Afghanistan. But so you know, and then Johnson, you know, withdrew. And, you know, I do not know, I never really, you know, what was interesting to me was McNamara who was so bright and, you know, groomed in the military way of thinking and everything, rises to the level of Secretary of Defense, you know, becomes certainly the architect of how to do it. And then basically has a reflection period and, you know, rewrites history and comes out, you know, criticizes himself with the whole [inaudible]. And I, you know, we were also superficial, in a way in our criticism of our archetypes, you know, for any human being to do that, we would all do well to reflect on doing that ourselves. Okay, that is to really look at yourself, and then let the whole world you know, see 180-degree shift, okay. And where you are, you know, you are basically saying that I was wrong, you know, on a matter involving 1000s and 1000s of lives, you know, it is pretty incredible, really. So I kind of feel inspired by McNamara, truthfully you know. I hated him in the (19)60s. I mean, he was the bad guy. But not now. I say that was pretty-
2:01:37
SM: When I interviewed McCarthy, it was right after "In Retrospect" came out, In Retrospect came out in 1995 and 1996 was when I interviewed McCarthy. In my first interview McCarthy says piece of garbage, and I will not read it. I mean, he was pretty critical of it.
2:01:52
RD: Then Spyro Agnew, I mean, he called me the most dangerous man in the United States on national television and from that point of view, I mean, he kind of made my career, you know, I mean, it was probably the best thing that ever got said about me. I do not really think it was an accurate statement, all things considered, but it certainly helped me with my base.
2:02:17
SM: The two last people are groups, the Barrigan brothers, just your thoughts on the Barrigan Brothers.
2:02:22
RD: They were, they made a real contribution. They brought a certain morality and spiritual religious side onto things. They were very courageous. They went to jail. And I, they were never really close into the coalition. It was interesting. They kind of did their own thing. They were always a part of it, but not quite what I, you know, I was about the coalition, and they were sort of there but really, you know, but I always tip my hat you know, I think well of them.
2:02:51
SM: The last, the last ones are the women leaders, Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Bella Abzug of the feminist movement. Because the thing is, when you read, the feminist movement came about because in the antiwar movement, it was run by men. And so women got sick of the men being dominated, dominating those movements, and then created the women's movement. Now, your thoughts on that statement number one, and just your thoughts on their effectiveness and their value?
2:03:21
RD: I think it is sort of the traditional role of a movement, you know, your social change movements tend to identify with a particular constituency, they then look around and see what is suppressing that constituency. They do not really say start off by let us change ourselves to change the world, they said, let us change, man, let us change the races, let us change them, you know. And that is, that is pretty standard and usually, it, it starts by trying to have some coalition building and conciliatory, you know, like, like, Obama would love to do get a bipartisan something going. But, you know, over time, I am more, you know, a more focused approach tends to emerge, you know, and his writer writes, it is like, the difference between King and Stokely Carmichael, that sort of thing. And so, Betty Friedan, kind of gives rise to Gloria Steinem. You know, and then from there it goes even more that way. I do not, I do not have a judgment about anybody's politics. That is right and this is wrong, you know, I do not really do that anymore. I used to but I do not buy it.
2:04:46
SM: You are evolving.
2:04:47
RD: I am evolving! That is it. Yeah.
2:04:49
SM: I think that is a word. I think it is a word we ought to use more too because some of the things you said, I have been in university for 30 years.
2:04:58
RD: Yeah.
2:04:58
SM: And I have seen things.
2:04:59
RD: Yeah
2:05:00
SM: I think you are right on. I think you can really appeal to a lot of the young people today.
2:05:05
RD: Yeah
2:05:06
SM: The spirituality is important.
2:05:08
RD: Yeah, yeah. it would be cool.
2:05:09
SM: Why am I here? What is my purpose and all of those kinds of things?
2:05:12
RD: I am very good at those kinds of questions.
2:05:15
SM: Was there any question I did not ask you that you thought I was going to ask you before we end?
2:05:19
RD: Not really, you know, I had no idea what we are going to do truthfully. I was all good. I thought you were well prepared. Well done. And I wish you all the really sincerely the very best with your effort. I know it has been a big effort. You have talked to a lot of people and, and, you know, wherever I fit in, it is completely up to you.
2:05:37
SM: No, you are going to be in there.
(End of Interview)
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Interview with Rennie Davis
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Davis, Rennie ; McKiernan, Stephen
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audio/wav
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Chicago Seven Trial, Chicago, Ill., 1969-1970; Political activists--United States; Davis, Rennie--Interviews
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Rennie Davis (1940-2021) was a spiritual lecturer and an activist. Davis was an American anti-Vietnam war protest leader of the 1960s. He was one of the Chicago Seven defendants. He appeared on several shows, including <em>Larry King Live</em> and <em>Barbara Walters</em>, and provided business advice for Fortune 500 companies. Davis was an alumnus of Oberlin College.
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2009-10-10
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eng
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McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.68a ; McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.68b
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McKiernan Interviews
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125:41
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9aa2779ef2f8a823755fe32e0eea3880.pdf
f2ba93441cce3fdb50e390e6d878525d
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Text
BINGHAMTON
UNI V ER SI T Y
STATE U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
,
o w dee
D E P A R T M E N T
THURSDAY
MIDDAY CONCERT
2
I
{
o
ZEmmfiy;Ohwer51&%%?
. ZZUpun. .
Casadesus Kecrial Hal
�TRANSLATIONS
PROGRAM
Concertino for Clarinet, Op. 26
Carl Maria von Weber
Adam Davis, clarinet
Margaret Reitz, piano
(17861826)
Three Songs from Shakespeare ....... Ralph Vaughan Williams
(18721958)
1. Take, O Take (from “Measure for Measure")
2. When Icicles Hang by the Wall (from “Love’s Labour’s Lost")
3. Orpheus with his Lute (from “Henry VIII")
Mark Rossnagel, tenor
ChaiKyou Mallinson, piano
from Concerto in E flat Major (1934) ....... Alexander Glazunov
(18651936)
Nathan Rose, alto saxophone
Margaret Reitz, piano
from L ’elisir d ’amore .................................Gaetano Donizetti
(17971848)
Come paride vezzoso
Julian Whitley, baritone
William James Lawson, piano
Vaghissima sembianza................................. Stefano Donaudy
(18791925)
from Don Giovanni ...................... Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
(17561791)
II mio tesoro
Michael Fries, tenor
Margaret Reitz, piano
Come paride vezzoso
As gracious Paris offered the apple
to the most beautiful woman,
my delightful peasant girl,
I offer you these flowers.
But I am more proud, more happy than he,
since in reward for my gift
I carry away
your beautiful heart.
I see clearly in that little face
that I’m winding my way into your breast.
That’s nothing surprising;
I’m gallant, and I’m a sergeant.
There is not a beautiful woman who resists
the sight of a military crest;
even the Mother of Love yields to Mars, the god of war.
Vaghissima sembianza
Most charming semblance
of my formerly loved woman,
who, then, has portrayed you with such a likeness
that l gaze, and speak, and believe to have you
before me as in the beautiful days of love?
The cherished memory
which in my heart has been awakened so ardently
has already revived hope there,
so that a kiss, a vow, a cry of love
I no longer ask except of her who is forever silent.
II m io tesoro
Go, meanwhile, to console my beloved;
and try to dry the tears from her beautiful eyes.
Tell her that I am going off to avenge her wrongs. . .
that I will come back messenger only of ravages and deaths – yes!
�Bingh amton Univer sity M usic Depart ment’ s
UPC OMI NG EVE NTS
Fr iday, October 16% 3Penny Opera with the Theatre Department
and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters Theater, $$
Saturday, October 1 7 ° 3Penny Opera with the Theatre
Department and University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Watters
Theater, $$
Saturday, October 1 7” Paul Taylor Dance Company with the
Binghamton University Symphony Orchestra, 8:00 PM, Osterhout Concert
Theater, $$
Sunday, October 18% 3Penny Opera with the Theatre Department
and University Symphony Orchestra, 2:00 PM, Watters Theater, $$
Thursday, October 22™ MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM —FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Saturday, October 2 4 ” Family Weekend Concert
(Harpur Chorale, Women? Chorus and Wind Symphony), 3:00 PM, FREE,
Osterhout Concert Theater
FREE
Thursday, October 29 ” MidDay Concert; 1:20 PM —
Casadesus Recital Hall
FREE
Thursday, November 5 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM —
Casadesus Recital Hall
Saturday, N ovember 7”' Master Class: Bruce Neswick,
guest organist, 10:00 AM – 12:00 NOON, First Presbyterian Church,
Binghamton, FREE
Saturday, November 7 Air Force Brass Quintet, 8:00 PM, FREE,
Casadesus Recital Hall
Sunday, November 8 ” Bruce Neswick, guest organist, 4. 00 PM,
First Piesbyterian Church, H A R P , $8
For ticket information, please call the
Anderson Center Box Office at 777ARTS.
�
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1960's - present
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Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
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Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
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Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
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1 audio disc
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35:29
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<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152849">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152849</a>
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Thursday mid-day concert, October 15, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-10-15
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Held at 1:20 p.m., October 15, 2009, Casadesus Recital Hall.
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Binghamton University Libraries
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2009-10-15
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sound
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0fc6b5b7cb12a30dbfed614a6f186020.pdf
67d43dc551744a11f746653f4ebbd5e4
PDF Text
Text
BINGHAMTON
EL N I V E R S I T Y
STAT E U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W YO R K
D E P A R T M E N T
THURSDAY
MIDDAY CONCERT
Thursday, October 22, 2 0 0 9
1. 2 0 p .m.
Casadasus Recital a z
�l
PROGRAM
l
Four Songs...
Allerseelen, Op 10, no. 8
Seitdem dein Aug‘ , Op. 17, no. 1
Heimkehr, Op. 15, no. 5
Zueignung, Op. 10, no. 1
Richard Strauss
(18641949)
Mary Burgess, soprano
Stephen Zank, piano
L’'Heure E x q u i s e
Nell, Op. 18, no. 1..
Adieux de I’ hotesse Arabe.
i
i
i!
l
{
!1
Ashley Maynard, mezzosoprano
William James Lawson, piano
i
1
Aria, “Dove sei, amato bene,” from Rodelinda ..George Frederick Handel
Aria, “Bel piacere,” from Agrippina
(16851759)
Susan Amisano, soprano
William James Lawson, piano
...Jean Sibelius
(18651975)
Julie Marie Williams, soprano
William James Lawson, piano
Aria, “Tornami a vagheggiar,” from Alcina............George Frederick Handel
(16851759)
Amanda Chmela, soprano
ChaiKyou Mallinson, piano
l
l
.. Reynaldo Hahn (18741947)
Gabriel Faure (18451924)
....Georges Bizet (1 8 3 8 1875)
Three S o n g s
Den forsta Kyssen Op. 37 no. “1”
Till Kvallen, Op. 17, no. 6
Flickan kom irfan sin alsklings mote, Op. 37, no. 5
TRANSLATIONS
:
Allerseelen
But now the sun departs,
(All Souls’ Day)
Place on the table the fragrant
And calm descends upon the
grove,
As long ago in May.
Give me your hand, that I may
secretly clasp it,
And if it is observed by others,
I will not mind;
Give me one of your sweet
glances,
As long ago in May.
Today each grave is flowering and
fragrant,
Once a year it is All Souls’ Day—
Come to my heart that I again may
Zueignung
(Devotion)
Ah, you know it, dear soul,
That, far from you, I languish;
Love causes hearts to ache—
To you my thanks!
Once, drinking to freedom,
I raised the amethyst cup,
And you blessed the drink—
To you my thanks!
You exorcised the evil spirits in it,
So that I, as never before,
Cleansed and freed, sank upon
your breast,
To you my thanks!
mignonettes,
Bring here the last of red asters,
And let us speak again of love,
have you,
As once again in May!
Seitdem dein Aug’
(Ever since your eyes)
Ever since your eyes looked into
mine,
And love, as if from heaven above,
Showered down upon me,
What more had the earth to offer?
It gave its best to me,
And with peaceful happiness of
the heart
My whole life was filled, because
of that one moment.
Heimkehr
(Homeward)
The tree boughs are waving softly,
Swiftly towards the shore moves
the boat,
Back to its nest flies the dove,
My heart returns home to you.
Too long on a bright day,
Surrounded by life’s turmoil,
On its fluttering wings,
It has been straying.
And it feels that near you is peace,
Near you alone is rest.
L ‘Heure Exquise
(The Exquisite Hour)
The white moon shines in the
forest, from every branch comes
forth a voice, under the foliage,
Oh beloved!
The pond, a deep mirror, reflects
in which the wind is crying. Let us
dream, ‘tis the hour! A vast and
tender calm seems to descend
from the firmament, which the orb
clads in rainbow colors;
‘Tis the exquisite hour!
Nell
Your purple rose in your bright
sun, O June, is sparkling as if
intoxicated; bend your golden cup
also toward me: My heart is just
like your rose.
Under the soft shelter of a shady
bough a sigh of pleasure rises up:
�More than one ringpigeon sings in
the remote wood, O my heart, its
amorous lament.
How sweet your pearl in the
flaming sky, star of the pensive
night! But how much sweeter is
the bright light that shines in my
charmed heart!
The singing sea, all along the
shore, will silence its eternal
murmuring. Before in my heart,
dear love, O Nell, your image will
stop blossoming!
Adieux de I’hotesse Arabe
Adieux o f the Arab Hostess
Since nothing holds you to this
happy land, neither the shade of a
palm tree, nor yellow corn, neither
rest, nor abundance, nor seeing
beat at the sound of your voice the
youthful breasts of our sisters,
whose dance, like that of a hive of
bees, crowns the evening hills.
Adieu, handsome traveler. Alas!
Oh, why aren’t you one of those
who limit their lazy feet to their
own roofs of branches or canvas!
Who, dreamers, listen to stories
without making any, and sit by
their door in the evening, dreaming
of flying away to the stars! Had
you wished it, perhaps one of us,
young man, would have liked to
serve you, kneeling, in our huts
that are always open.
She would have lulled you to
sleep, and made a fan of green
leaves to chase away the flies
from your brow. If you don’t come
back, think sometimes on the
desert’s daughters, softvoiced
sisters; dancing barefoot on the
dune.
Handsome young white man,
lovely bird of passage, remember.
For perhaps, oh rapid stranger,
your memory remains in more
than one of them!
Dove sei, amato bene?
(Where are you, beloved?)
Where are you, beloved?
Come to console my heart!
Come, come, beloved!
I am beset by sorrow,
And my harsh pains
I can only bear with you.
Bel piacere
(Great pleasure)
‘Tis great pleasure to enjoy,
To enjoy a faithful love!
This brings contentment to the
heart. Splendour is not measured
by beauty, if it does not come from
a faithful heart.
i
.
Den forsta kyssen
(The First Kiss)
On silver clouds there sat an
evening star, when through the
dusk a maid called from afar: “Oh,
tell me, star, will heaven think
amiss, when first I bless my Iov’d
one with a kiss?”
And heaven’s bashful daughter
thus did sigh: “A choir of angels
lifts their heads up high, and sees
their grace reflected in night’s
keep; so Death doth turn his eyes
away and weep.”
.
Flickan kom ifran sin alsklings
mote
(The Tryst)
The girl came from meeting her
lover, came with her hands all red.
Said her mother: “What has made
your hands so red, girl?” Said the
girl: “I was picking roses and
pricked my hands on the thorns.”
&
Again she came from meeting her
lover, came with her lips all red.
Said her mother: “What has made
your lips so red, girl?” Said the
girl: “I was eating raspberries and
stained my lips with the juice.”
Again she came from meeting her
lover, came with her cheeks all
pale. Said her mother: “What has
made your cheeks so pale, girl?”
Said the girl: “Oh mother, dig a
grave for me, hide me there and
set a cross above, and on the
cross write as I tell you:
Once she came home with her
hands all red...they had turned red
between her lover’s hands.
Once she came home with her lips
all red...they had turned red
beneath her lover’s lips.
The last time she came home with
her cheeks all pale...they had
turned pale at her lover’s
unfaithfulness.”
Till kvéllen
(To Evening)
Welcome, dark, mild and starry
evening! Your gentle fervour I
adore and caress the dark tresses
That flutter round your brow.
If only you were the magic bridge
that would carry my soul away,
No longer burdened by the cares
of life!
And if it were the happy day when,
overcome with weariness, I might
join you when work is over and
duty done,
When night unfolds its black
wings, and a grey curtain falls over
hill and dale, O evening, how I
would hurry to you!
Tornami a vagheggiar
(Return to Me)
Return to me so that I may look
upon you with love. My faithful
soul loves only you, Dear, my
beloved.
Already to you I gave my heart,
faithful will be my love. Never to
you will I be cruel, Dear, my hope.
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Sat urd ay, O ctob er 2 4 ” Family Weekend Concert y), 3:00 PM, FREE,
(Harpur Chorale, Women’s Chorus and Wind Symphon
Osterhout Concert Theater
Thu rsda y, Oct obe r 2 9 ” MidDay Concert; 1:20 PM —FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Thu rsda y, Nov emb er 5% MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM —FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
aster Class: Bruce Neswiok,
Sat urd ay, N ove m b e r7*" M
12:00 NOON, First Presbyterian Church,
guest organist, 10:00 AM —
Binghamton, FREE
Sat urd ay, N o v e m b e r Air Force Brass Quintet, 8:00 PM, FREE,
Casadesus Recital Hall
Sun day, N ove m b e r 8 ” B ruce Neswick, guest organist, 4:00 PM,
First Presbyterian Church, Binghamton, $$
Thu rsda y, Nov emb er 1 2 ” MidDa y Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Sat urd ay, N ove mbe r 1 4 ” Student Garinet Recital:
Sarah Fenster & Dan Fagen, 7:00 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
hamton Philharmonic and the
Sun day, N ove mbe r 1 5 Bing
Binghamton University Grorus: Songs o f Destiny by Brahms andO at
Beethoven, 3:00 PM, Osterhout Concert Theater, (for tickets, cal BP
607. 723.3931 )
PM,
S u n d ay, N ove m b e r 1 5% Concerto and Aria Competition, 6:30
Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Thu rsda y, Nov emb er 1 9 ” MidDay Concert; 1:20 P M FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
For ticket information, please call the
And erso n Cen ter Box O ffice a t 777ARTS.
�
Dublin Core
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Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960's - present
Title
A name given to the resource
Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: PDF / Rosetta
PDF with Rosetta audio/video link
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
1 sound disc
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
37:46
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152852">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE152852</a>
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Thursday mid-day concert, October 22, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-10-22
Description
An account of the resource
Held at 1:20 p.m., October 22, 2009, Casadesus Recital Hall.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-10-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/47f573ca0675c4676e3ab95b028b954c.pdf
0d4aba4ff9639cfb2c5de762a6abd45f
PDF Text
Text
BINGH AMTO N
R S 1 X
U N I V E
STATE U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W YORK
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D E P A R T M E N T
Saturday,
Featuring:
Harpur Chorale October 2 4
Womens’ Chorus
University Wind
Ensemble
3:00 p.m,
oc¢erhout Concert
Theater
�Tho Women
Christine Ryder, conductor
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William James Lawson, accompanist
William James Lawson and Peter Browne, pianists
Three Hungarian Folk Songs
The N
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Thomas Weelkes
(b.1955)
Raquel Rozner, Annie Ferro, and Meredith Collins, soloists
At the RIVEE
Zion’s Walls
Big Spender (from Sweet Charity)
Aaron Copland
(19001990)
i
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a
m Byrd
(1 5431623)
(19021986)
.. Thomas E. Benjamin
(1975)
eople. For his merciful
tions; praise him all you p
Praise the Lord, all you na
kindness is great toward us, and the truth of the Lord endures forever.
(Psalm 117)
Alison Metcalfe, Ayla Gordon, Joshua Setren, Joshus Darfler, quartet
Barbara and Conrad Chaffee
(2009)
It is that exquisite morning hour
Reddened by a sudden sun.
Through the autumn fog
The garden’s leaves fall.
l
l
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Their fall is slow. One can follow them
With one’s gaze, recognizing
The oak by its leaf of copper,
The maple by its leaf of blood.
The last, the rustiest,
Fall from stripped branches,
But it is not yet winter . . .
Aaron Copland
<eeeeee... Coleman
and Dorothy Fields
l
Maurice Duruflé
Matin D O c t o b r e . . . . .............
(c. 1 5751623)
FrobisherBay..............................................................James Gordon
1
Laudate Dominum...
(18811945)
g
W
Where charity and love abide, God is there. We are gathered as one in the love
of Christ; therefore let us rejoice and be glad. And as we hear and love God, so
let us in sincerity love all people.
{
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Ubi Caritas
(b.1953)
..........Béla Bartok
In the Village
Boatman! Boatman!
See the Roses
i
This is the day that the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. Alleluia.
(Psalm 118: 24)
..René Clausen
Psalm 100..
Haec D
Peter Browne, conductor
A blonde light saturates
Nature, and, in the rosecolored air,
You would think it was snowing gold.
(Frangois Coppee, 18421 908)
A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square................. Manning Sherwin
(1940)
Wade In the Wally
Traditional S piritual
Marc Silvagni, percussion
(arr. Norman Luboff 1970 )
�THE WOMEN’S CH ORUS
Robert G. Smith, Conductor
Kimberly Metaxas, Associate Conductor
Dedication Overture(1965).............................
Symphonic Dance No. 3, Fiesta (1964) .
The Free Lance March (1906)
Vittorio Giannini
(19031966)
..........Clifton Williams
(19231976)
:
1
John Philip Sousa
Soprano I
Meredith Collins
Catherine Cornell
Laura MacAvoy
Raquel Rozner
Ariel Schlesinger
Siobhan Sculley
Samantha Grieco
Yiting Liang
Dorothy Rota
Allison Timpson
Soprano II
Molly AdamsToomey
Rebecca Dinhofer
Kristina Dowling
Annie Ferro
Alto
Ilyssa Baine
Danielle Barbanell
Alicia Caruso
Tahnee Fallis
Samantha Ng
Melanie Young
(18541932)
T H E HARPUR CHORAL E
ABOUT T H E PERFORMERS
KIMBERLY METAXAS. a native of Vestal, NY, is a graduate student of conducting at
Binghamton University studying with Professor Robert Smith. Ms. Metaxas holds a Bachelor’s
Degree in Music Education from SUNY Fredonia, and a Bachelor’s Degree in Music Therapy from
Michigan State University. She is a music teacher for the Susquehanna Valley High School and
UnionEndicott High School marching bands, and BOCES summer school program. Most recently,
Ms. Metaxas has been a member of Binghamton University‘s Wind Symphony and Harpur Jazz
Ensemble, Vestal Community Band, and the Empire Statesmen Drum and Bugle Corps.
ROBERT G. SMITH is Music Director and Conductor of the Binghamton University Wind
Symphony and teaches advanced instrumental conducting and graduate wind conducting at BU. He
conducts the annual Triple Cities TubaChristmas and is former conductor of the Maine Community
Band, the oldest band of its kind in the United States. He has guest conducted allcounty bands
throughout New York State. Among other ensembles Smith has conducted are the Goshen College
(IND) Wind Ensemble and Orchestra, The United States Army Ground Forces Band(GA), the
Southern Tier Concert Band(NY ) and the Vestal Community Band(NY). An active performer, he
currently plays principal euphonium with the Southern Tier Concert Band and tuba with the Brass
Nickel quintet and the Crown City Brass sextet. Smith is past president of the Broome County
Music Educators Association and recipient o f the 2005 BCMEA Distinguished Service Award.
Professional memberships include The Broome County Music Ed ucators Association, the New York
State School Music Association, the Music Educators National Conference, The National Band
Association. The Association o f Concert Bands, The Conductors Guild, The World Association of
Symphonic Bands and Ensembles. The College Band Directors National Association and thc
International Tuba and Euphonium Association.
[
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Women
Men
Michele Aronson
Laura Demsey
Eliza EspinosaThomas
Tahnee Fallis
Eliana Frim
Ayla Gordon
Shaina Carmel Indovino
Brianna Jenkins
Alexandra Kirby
Sarah Kuras
Allison Metcalfe
Krystiana Resto
Samantha VanAdelsberg
Jaclyn Wallach
Thomas Blumenthal
Joshua Darfler
David Frey
Ariel Hausman
Jonathan Karlas
Gabriel Lotto
Michael Mechman
Glenn Parker
Mark Rossnagel
Joshua Setren
Alexander Turo
�WIND SYMPHONY MUSICIANS
Piccolo
Rachel Serwetz
Flute I
Rachelle Haddad (principal)
Emily Morris
Kathleen S pelman
Flute II
Kimberly Hom
Rebecca F alik
Raquel Goldsmith
Oboe
Kyle LaGrutta
Bassoon I, II
Daniel Bessel
Paige Elliott
E b Clarinet
Heather Worden (Grad Student)
Bb Clarinet I
Sarah Fenster (Principal)
Kyle Doyle
Kerry Goodacre
Mark DelloStritto
Bb Clarinet II
Kristin Hohn
Anthony Kwon
Abby Cohen
Bb Clarinet III
Stephen Collins
Greg Norman
David Morrissey
Melissa Klepper
Bass Clarinet
Zach Stanco
Brianna Palisi
F H o rn l l l l l l l V
Zack Arenstein
Zack Bimbaum
Kirstie Cummings (Principal)
Natalie Rivera
Leanna Verderese
Alexa Weinberg
T rombone I
Jay Bartishevich
Alto Saxophonel
Alex Horspool
Trombone II
Mogana Jayakumar
Alto Saxophone I I
John Tanzi
Tenor Saxophone
Dean Papadopoulus
Bass Trombone
Carter McGriff
Trumpet I
Nick Polacca (principal)
Kevin Hannon
T rumpet I1
Nick Quackenbush
Brian Lee
Trumpet ITI
Tim O’Brien
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�Bingh amton University Music Depart ment’ s
UPC OM ING EVE NTS
Thursday, October 2 9 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
T hursday, Nove mber 5 MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Satur day, November 7 ” Master Class: Bruce Neswick,
guest or ganist, 10:00 AM – 12:00 NOON, First Presbyterian Church,
Binghamton, FREE
Satur day, N ovember 7 ” Air Force Brass Quintet. 8:00 PM, FREE,
Casadesus Recital Hall
Sunday, November 8 ” Bruce Neswick, guest organist, 4:00 PM,
First Presbyterian Church, Binghamton, $$
T hursday, November 1 2 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Saturday, November 1 4 ” Student Clarinet Recital:
Sarah Fenster & Dan Fagen, 7:00 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Sunday, Novem ber 1 5 ” Binghamton Philharmonic and the Binghamton
University Chorus: Songs of Destiny by Brahms and Beethoven, 3:00 PM,
Osterhou t Concert T heater, (for tickets, call BPO at 607.723.3931)
Sunday, November 15% Concerto and Aria Competition, 6:30 PM,
Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Thursday, Nov ember 1 9 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Satur day, N ovember 21° Master Recital: Julie Williams, soprano,
8:00 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Sunday, N ovem ber 2 2 ” Master Recital: Ashley Maynard soprano,
3:00 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Sunday, November 2 2 ” Honor Recital: Nathan Rose, saxophone,
7:30 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
For ticket information, please call the
Anderson Center Box Office at 777ARTS.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960's - present
Title
A name given to the resource
Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: PDF / Rosetta
PDF with Rosetta audio/video link
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
2 audio discs
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
43:23
25:01
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE153819">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE153819</a>
Accessibility
Copy/Paste below:
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
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Single
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family weekend concert, October 24, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-10-24
Description
An account of the resource
Held at 3:00 p.m., October 24, 2009, Osterhout Concert Theater.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Harpur Choral
Women's Chorus
University Women's Ensemble
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009-10-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0a993d2f0fc04c14111da29af0f953bb.pdf
134f92c5c877a948159283704f616e49
PDF Text
Text
BINGHAMTON
U N I V E R S I T Y
S TAT E U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
wdc
D E P A R T M E N T
THURSDAY
MIDDAY CONCERT
Thursday, Ocgober 29, 2 0 0 9
L 2 0 p m . .
Casadesus Recital Hal
�PROGRAM
Zyczenie
Smutna Rzeka
Pose!
Leci liscie z drzewa
TRANSLATIONS
Frederic Chopin
(18101849)
Ashley Maynard, mezzosoprano
William James Lawson, piano
Liebst du um Schonheit
Das Veilchen
O weh des Scheidens
Mein Stern
Loreley
Clara Schumann
(18191896)
Franz Schubert
(17971828)
Mary Burgess, soprano
Timothy Perry, clarinet
Stephan Zank, piano
TRANSLATIONS
Zyczenie
(A Maiden’s Wish)
River, flowing from the mountains,
Tell me why your waters are swollen?
Is it the snow thawing
and flooding your banks?
The snow lies unmelted in the hills, and
flowers hold my banks firm. At my
source sits a mother
sorrowful and weeping.
Seven daughters she bore and loved,
seven now lie buried.
In death they know not night nor day,
they lie, facing east.
Waiting in pain by their grave,
she tells her sorrow to their spirits.
And her unceasing tears flow,
swelling my waters to a flood.
Pose!
(The Messenger)
Jana Kucera, soprano
ChaiKyou Mallinson, piano
Der Hirt auf dem Felsen, Op. 129
Smutna Rzeka
(Sad River)
If I were the sun in the sky,
I would shine only on you.
I would pass blindly over the meadows and grass,
but would shine in your window forever if I were the sun.
If I were a little bird from that forest, I wouldn’t sing in any foreign country.
I would pass over the meadows and grass, but would sing at your window forever
if I could change into that little bird.
Dew lies on the meadows,
the winter days are changing.
You, faithful bird, are again before us,
singing.
With you, the sun shines longer,
with you there is the pleasant spring;
Welcome from the journey, joyful singer!
Don’t go, wait!
Maybe you are begging for seed?
Maybe you bring a new song
from distant lands?
You run, you look around with your dark
eyes...
Don’t look so happy, she is not here!
She went after a soldier,
she threw him a hat by the roadside
shrine and said goodbye to her mother.
Maybe she was running away?
Tell me, bird, are they hungry,
is it good for them in the world?
Leci Iiscie z drzewa
(Leaves Are Falling)
Leaves are falling, where once the tree
grew free. Now there sits a wild bird
calling by a grave.
O forever and ever,
Poland is good.
Everything fades like a dream,
and your children are in the grave.
Cottages are burned, villages destroyed,
women lament,
homeless in the fields.
Men have fled from family and friends,
crops shrivel and die,
and are left untended.
Young men gather to defend Warsaw’s
walls; Poland begins to rise from the
darkness.
Fighting through winter and summer
heat. Then came autumn
to thin our ranks.
Now the war is over, our toil expended in
vain. The fields we once tilled remain
empty.
Some lie buried, some languish in
prison, some wander in exile
homeless and hungry.
Heaven has not helped us, and
neither did the hand of men.
The unsown fields turn to waste,
and nature’s gifts are nothing.
Leaves are falling, and more leaves thick
and black. Oh Poland, cherished land,
see how your sons are slaughtered for
you, They worked at guarding the land,
and now suffer and die for Poland.
Fight with all your strength, fight for your
freedom! There are traitors in this
country, but there are also those who are
faithful.
Fight with all your strength, fight in the
name of liberty! Poland belongs to those
who are devoted to this land.
Liebst du u m Schoénheit
(Do You Love Beauty)
Do you love beauty?
Oh do not love me!
Love thou the sun who wears her golden
hair!
Do you love youth?
Oh do not love me!
Love thou the Spring, it is young every
year!
�Do you love riches?
Oh do not love me!
Love thou the mermaid, she has many
pearls!
Do you love love? Oh yes, then love
me! Love me always, I will always love
you!
Das Veilc hen
(The Violet)
A violet in the meadow stood bowed to
itself and unknown; It was a tender
violet. Then came a young shepherdess
with light steps and cheerful spirit from
there, across the meadow singing.
Ah, thought the violet, if only I were the
most beautiful flower of nature, Ah, just a
little while, ‘til I were by my beloved
plucked, and on her bosom fainting,
pressed!
Ah only, ah only a short quarter hour
long!
But alas! The girl came by, and o f the
violet took no heed but crushed
underfoot the poor violet. lt drooped and
perished, and yet rejoiced, for if I die, yet
still I die through her, through her and at
her feet.
O we h des Scheidens
(The Sorrow o f Parting)
Oh the sorrowful parting that he took
when he left me in longing! Oh the
sorrowful pleading as he asked, his tears
and weeping!
He said to me: “Give up your grief!” Yet
he himself withdrew in sorrow. l was
dampened by his tears, so that it chilled
me to the heart.
Mein Stern
(My Star)
O thou my star! I behold you joyfully!
When the sun sinks quietly in the ocean
your golden eye so consolingly beckons
in my night.
O thou my star! From far beyond, if you
are a messenger with love’s greetings,
let your rays hungrily kiss me in the
uneasy night!
O thou my star! Linger willingly, and
smilingly carry on the plumage of light
the dreams of angels to my beloved
below, in his night.
Lorel ey
(Loreley)
I know not what it means that I feel so
sad; a tale from old times will not leave
my mind.
The air is cool; it is getting dark and
peacefully flows the Rhine. The summit
of the mountain sparkles in the evening
sunshine.
The most beautiful maiden sits up there,
wonderfully. Her golden jewels flash,
she combs her golden hair.
She combs it with a golden comb and
sings a song all the while; it has a
wondrous powerful melody. It
possesses with violent woe the sailor in
a little ship. He is seized with wild pain,
he sees not the rocky reef, he only looks
up in the end.
I believe the waves swallow and end
sailor and ship and that, with her singing,
The Loreley has done.
Der Hirt a uf dem Felsen
(The Shepherd on the Rock )
When upon the highest rock I stand, and
gaze into the deep valley below, and
sing, and sing, farm from out the deep,
dark valley resounds the echo from the
caverns. The farther my voice resounds,
the brighter it echoes from below. My
darling lives s o far from me, I long for her
so intensely, so far off.
In deepest grief I am consumed, Joy has
flown, no hope for me, I am so alone
here. So longingly my song rang
through the woods, throughout the night,
it draws the heart heavenward with
wondrous power.
The springtime will come, the spring my
joy, now I make ready for wandering
once more!
�
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Coverage
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1960's - present
Title
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Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
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1 audio disc
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39:09
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Thursday mid-day concert, October 29, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-10-29
Description
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Held at 1:20 p.m., October 29, 2009, Casadesus Recital Hall.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
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2009-10-29
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In copyright
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sound
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https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dc1ebb7be68e7b9a389d2f3415171a16.jpg
f835e42634b348075aba1aea8f014b5d
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7f8c1a18fe3ebfc74e4518673e2d8944
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Audio interviews
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McKiernan Interviews
Description
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Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
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Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Language
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English
Rights
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
2009-11-02
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Jonah Raskin, 1942-
Language
English
Biographical Text
<span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Dr. Jonah Raskin is a scholar and author. Dr. Raskin gave up his teaching position at a university in order to participate in the 1970's radical counterculture movement as a freelance journalist. Raskin returned to academics in 1981 and taught media law, history of communications, film noir, and writing for newspapers, magazines, radio, and movies. He received his Bachelor's degree and Master's degree in American Literature from Columbia University. Raskin received his Ph.D. from the University of Manchester with a dissertation on the mythology of imperialism. "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":7051,"3":{"1":0},"4":[null,2,5099745],"6":{"1":[{"1":2,"2":0,"5":[null,2,0]},{"1":0,"2":0,"3":3},{"1":1,"2":0,"4":1}]},"10":2,"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Arial"}">Dr. Jonah Raskin is a scholar and author. Dr. Raskin gave up his teaching position at a university in order to participate in the 1970s radical counterculture movement as a freelance journalist. Raskin returned to academics in 1981 and taught media law, history of communications, film noir, and writing for newspapers, magazines, radio, and movies. He received his Bachelor's degree and Master's degree in American Literature from Columbia University. Raskin received his Ph.D. from the University of Manchester with a dissertation on the mythology of imperialism. </span>
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
1 Microcassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
83:49
Keywords
<span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Music; Motown; Rock and Roll; Folk Newport Folk Festival; Jazz; Vietnam War; Thelonious Monk; John Coltrane; Bob Dylan; Beatles; Soul on Ice; Feminine Mystique; Counterculture; Berlin wall; Vietnam memorial"}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":515,"3":{"1":0},"4":{"1":2,"2":16370588},"12":0}">Music; Motown; Rock and Roll; Folk Newport Folk Festival; Jazz; Vietnam War; Thelonious Monk; John Coltrane; Bob Dylan; Beatles; Soul on Ice; Feminine Mystique; Counterculture; Berlin wall; Vietnam memorial</span>
Subject LCSH
Authors; Scholars;Journalists; College teachers; Counterculture;Raskin, Jonah, 1942--Interviews
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
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Interview with Dr. Jonah Raskin
Contributor
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Raskin, Jonah, 1942- ; McKiernan, Stephen
Format
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audio/wav
Subject
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Authors; Scholars;Journalists; College teachers; Counterculture;Raskin, Jonah, 1942--Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Dr. Jonah Raskin is a scholar and author. Dr. Raskin gave up his teaching position at a university in order to participate in the 1970s radical counterculture movement as a freelance journalist. Raskin returned to academics in 1981 and taught media law, history of communications, film noir, and writing for newspapers, magazines, radio, and movies. He received his Bachelor's degree and Master's degree in American Literature from Columbia University. Raskin received his Ph.D. from the University of Manchester with a dissertation on the mythology of imperialism.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Date
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2009-11-02
Rights
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In copyright
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.96
Date Modified
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2018-03-29
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McKiernan Interviews
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83:49
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https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fea3874f015691c70a746faada0685f5.pdf
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PDF Text
Text
BINGHAMTON
U N I V E R 3 1 T
Y
S T A T E U N I V E R S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
zedec
B E P A R T M E N T
THURSDAY
MIDDAY CONCERT
Tbursdsay, November 5 , 2 0 0 9
£ 2 0 p .m. .
Casadesus Recital Hal
�PROGRAM
Pensrero
r a n k Bridge
(18791941)
Roberta Crawford, viola
Michael Salmirs, piano
Concertino
University Symphony Orchestra
C on certo
& A ria
Ferdinand David
(18101873)
William Marsiglia, trombone
William Lawson, piano
;_ ‘
" S18
t
Concerto in G Major, K. 216...
Allegro
W. A. Mozart
(17561791)
Piano Concerto No. 3 in C minor, Op. 37.................Ludwig van Beethoven
Allegro con brio
(17701827)
P
E
—
'
i I e E
0 ' e r s
l
h
i
e
)
E
Imji Choi, violin
Michael Salmirs, piano
Jieun Jang, piano
Michael Salmirs, orchestra
p
E
R
N A5
‘
<<
s .
2
7
B e
e
e
e
C omp et it ion
®
0
Sunday, November 15 from 6:30 – 9:30 p.m.
Casadesus Recital Hall Free
T o a h d n fl l fl fl h h M M Q d fl a l fi fl O J M D W
�Binghamton University Music Department ’s
U P C O M I N G EVENTS
W
W
W
Satur day, N ovember 7 ” Master Gass: Bruce Neswick,
guest organist, 10:00 AM – 12:00 NOON, First Presbyterian Church,
Binghamton, FREE
Satur day, N ovember 7°" Air Force Brass Quintet, 8:00 PM, FREE,
Casadesus Recital Ha/l
Sunday, N ovember 8 ” 1 Bruce Neswick, guest organist, 4:00 PM,
First Presbyterian Church, Binghamton, $$
Thursday, November 1 2 ” MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
1 4 ” Student Clarinet Recital:
Satur day, N ovember
Sarah Fenster & Dan Fagen, 7:00 PM, Casadesus Redta/ Hall, FREE
Sunday, N ovember 1 5 ” Binghamton Philharmonic and the
Binghamton University Chorus: Songs of Destiny by Brahms and
Beethoven, 3:00 PM, Osterhout Concert Theater; (for tickets, call BPO at
607.723.3931)
Sunday, N ovember 1 5% Concerto and Aria Competition, 6:30 PM,
Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Thursday, November 1 9 ” MidDay Concert; 1:20 PM FREE
Casadesus Recital Hall
Satur day, N ovember 21% Master Recital: Julie Williams, soprano,
8:00 PM, Casadesus Recital Hall, FREE
Sunday, N ovember 22™ Master Recital: Ashley Maynard, soprano,
3:00 PM, Casadesus Redta/ Hall, FREE
FREE
Thursday, December 3 Jazz MidDay Concert, 1:20 PM —
Casadesus Recital Hall
Ensemble Concert (cosponsored
Thursday, December 3 ° Harpur Jazz
by the Harpur Jazz Ensemble and the Binghamton University Department of Music),
8:00 PM, Osterhout Concert Theater, $$ (FREE for students)
For ticket information, please call the
Anderson Center Box Office at 777ARTS.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960's - present
Title
A name given to the resource
Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
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In copyright.
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1 audio disc
Duration
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35:38
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
<a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE153178">https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE153178</a>h
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Thursday mid-day concert, November 5, 2009
Recital Tape 2009-11-05
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Held at 1:20 p.m., November 5, 2009, Casadesus Recital Hall.
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2009-11-05
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sound
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McKiernan Interviews
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Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
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Stephen McKiernan
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Binghamton University Libraries
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English
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
2009-11-06
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
David Harris
Language
English
Biographical Text
<span>David Victor Harris is a journalist, author, and activist. He was a leading opponent of the draft during the Vietnam War, which began during his college days at Stanford University. As a young college student, he became involved in the Civil Rights Movement where he joined students from all over the country in the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee's (SNCC) 1964 voter registration campaign in Mississippi. In 1966, he became president of the Stanford University student body, and as a leading critic of the draft, he formed a group called the Resistance. Harris was </span><span>the first person arrested for refusing to register for the draft in </span><span>1968. In his later years, Harris has received journalistic praise for his non-fiction books on his experiences in the sixties and seventies along with other books connected to personalities or issues in those times.<br /><br />Harris died from lung cancer at his home in Mill Valley on February 6, 2023, at the age of 76.<br /></span>
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
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1 Microcassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Duration
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86:58
Keywords
<span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Role models; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Assassination of John F. Kennedy; Cold War; Nuclear warfare; Saigon; Army reserve; Mason-Dixon line; Civil War; Slavery; Women's Rights Movement."}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":3,"3":{"1":0},"4":{"1":2,"2":14281427}}">Role models; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Assassination of John F. Kennedy; Cold War; Nuclear warfare; Saigon; Army reserve; Mason-Dixon line; Civil War; Slavery; Women's Rights Movement.</span>
Subject LCSH
Journalists; Authors; Political activists--United States; Harris, David, 1946--Interviews
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Transcription
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McKiernan Interviews
Interview with: David Victor Harris
Interviewed by: Stephen McKiernan
Transcriber: REV
Date of interview: 6 November 2009
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
SM (00:00:04):
Good. Are you ready to go?
DH (00:00:07):
I am ready.
SM (00:00:10):
Okay. When you think of the (19)60s and the early (19)70s, what is the first thing that comes to your mind?
DH (00:00:18):
Well, it is too much territory to really have a specific thing that comes to my mind, but being out there on the edge, as far as the feeling, I guess.
SM (00:00:37):
Is there a specific event when you were young, because you are the front edge of the boomer generation, as they define it, from 1946 to (19)64?
DH (00:00:47):
Pretty close to the first.
SM (00:00:50):
Yeah. And actually, I think some people are eligible for social security this year.
DH (00:00:56):
I was born in February of (19)46. So right there at the start of the curve.
SM (00:01:03):
What was it in your particular life, at what point in your life did you know that you had to speak up about something, whether it be in high school? Because a lot of people never had the courage to speak up, and they always followed authority, but was there one specific incident, the first time that you knew you had to speak up about an issue?
DH (00:01:26):
Oh, I suppose when I attended a public meeting during the fall of my freshman year at Standford, where they were recruiting volunteers to go down to Mississippi and help the-the Mississippi Project, fall of (19)63. At that point, I heard a call. I did not go to Mississippi right at that moment, but within a year I was in Mississippi.
SM (00:01:55):
Yeah. Talk a little bit about that experience in the South, and being around those other young people who had the same caring attitude that you had. Did you feel that they were a rare breed within the boomer generation?
DH (00:02:12):
Well, certainly. I mean, at the time, Mississippi was an extraordinarily influential moment for the entire generation, and certainly for me. I think you are absolutely right when you describe it as a caring response. There really was not an ideology at that point. People were there because they thought Black people had the right to vote without being lynched. I mean, it was as simple as that. It was really a value based proposition, far more than it was a politics based proposition. And I felt like, when I went to Mississippi, that I was participating in the great adventure of our time, and I did not want to miss it.
SM (00:03:07):
When you were young also, who would you consider to be your, this might be an overused term, role models or people that inspired you? But most importantly, someone who may have been older, who believed in you?
DH (00:03:22):
It is a different category. As a political figure, given when I started out in the Mississippi Project, the man was Bob [inaudible]. And to this day, I still have enormous respect for that. And he was slightly older than me, but I had no contact with him. I would follow fish to the circles that he read from afar. I thought he was enormously captivating, and a lot of what I first learned about organizing, just came from listening to him. And so, I would list him as a big influence. The older people who had faith in me, from my experience, were teachers. I had three teachers that I would put in that category. One, who I [inaudible] from in high school, one from my freshman year at Stanford, and one from my sophomore year on. Those were the big persons that supplied me not only with the intellect stuff, but...
SM (00:04:57):
You want to list those names, just for the record?
DH (00:04:59):
Sure. Well, in high school was a man named Alan Amond, who taught the honors humanities program and world history at Fresno High School, which was a three-year-high school. And I took his world history course my first year at high school, and I was in his honors humanity class [inaudible] and it was one of these five... English and history. It was a big deal at Fresno. And Amond was a guy who had been, during the great Red Scare, had inspectors from school board sitting in classrooms, monitoring what he said [inaudible], and that is what he was, Quaker. But in any case, he rooted all things in me. And then my freshman year at Stanford, a man named Richard Grafton, was instructor in our [inaudible] history of Western civilization, freshman fourth. And he was also the faculty president of [inaudible] and he has been a lifelong friend. And yeah, really hope he makes the transition to president.
SM (00:06:30):
And the third?
DH (00:06:32):
Pardon?
SM (00:06:33):
Was there a third?
DH (00:06:33):
A guy named Charles Breckmyer.
SM (00:06:35):
Okay.
DH (00:06:35):
He was in the poly-sci department at Stanford, and ran the special honors program in social processes.
SM (00:06:39):
Very good.
DH (00:06:39):
I studied with him the last years at Stanford.
SM (00:06:51):
You have seen this over the years, particularly in the 90s, Newt Gingrich would oftentimes, especially when the Republicans came into power in (19)94, Newt had a lot of comments about the (19)60s generation and the boomers. And George Willis, whenever he gets a chance, he gets a shot at writing about him as well, and really cutting him in many different ways, in a negative way. What are your thoughts on critics of the boomer generation, who say that all the problems that are currently happening in our society today, with the breakdown of the American family, the differences between people of color, the confrontational victim type mentality, be blaming this generation for all of the excesses, the drugs? And just your thoughts on this criticism.
DH (00:07:45):
Well I mean, I think they are way off the mark. I think quite the contrary. As far as I am concerned, saved the country from itself, at a time when it desperately needs. America has become a far better fight by virtue of our country. The problem here, was not our country. My question to a lot of these guys is what are you so goddamn upset about? What exactly is it that make you describe us as a syndrome? And I think the fact of the matter is, is that we exposed the way of doing business in the United States that contradicted everything the United States is supposed to stand for. And that they do not think that citizens ought to have the power to do that, and we did it. And come on, we are the ones that put the end to desegregation. And we stopped a war in which more than two million people were killed for no good reason. And none of these critics of us, have come up with a good reason for having done all that stuff. Not yet. Not after all these years, they have not come up with something. We stood up in the face of power when somebody had to do that, because we were engaging in wholesale madness, and that was immoral. For my generation, you have to remember, the formative intellectual experience was the Holocaust and the aftermath of the West judgment of Nazi Germany, and the Nuremberg prescient. And the intellectual issue when I was a freshman in Stanford, was framed by Hannah Arendt.
SM (00:09:34):
Oh, yes.
DH (00:09:34):
A philosopher who wrote a book called Eichmann in Jerusalem, which was supposedly an account of the trial of Adolf Eichmann after, and hiding in Argentina, and whisked away by the Israelis [inaudible] And the basic question that grabbed all of us in all that, was not, "What do you do about the Germans?" That they were clearly evil and had to be addressed to set. The issue was, "What do you do if you are a German?" And I think my generation spent a lifetime trying to answer that question. And I think that a number of us answered the bell when somebody in the country had to do so. And so obviously, I think the critics [inaudible] which continued to do so. And I would remind you, that these were largely guys who got through this entire period of history without having to pay any price. Say what you will about my position, I did not hide behind anything. I ended up in... Spent most of 20 months in prison in a maximum security institution. Four months in isolation cell. I paid my price, and I know my veteran friends paid their price. And where was Newt Gingrich's price in all this? How did he escape that, and how can he stand back now and call on us to endorse more innocent killing? Come on. By all the basic rules of the (19)60s, he passed, or failed to pass the debt. He did not stand up for what he supposedly was for. Fine, you like the war? Go fight it. They all had that option, and none of them took it. And so for me, a lot of that is just bullshit.
SM (00:11:55):
David, you raised a great point, because you paid a price. And if you remember, Dr. King would always say, when he was alive, that, "There is a price one has to pay for your beliefs." And he paid it by going to jail and everything. And a lot of people that had his side, he would say that, "Well, you may go to jail for this. You may have to stand up for what you believe in, and then pay a price." Do you feel that the boomer generation understood that there is a price one has to pay for standing up, and maybe this is why so few did in their adulthood? Your thoughts on some of your peers who may have, when they were young, stood up, but have not stood up since? And then the majority that may have never stood up.
DH (00:12:47):
Well, I think what to say about the generation, is that we were all, at the very least, witnesses to people paying prices. It is impossible to go through that historical experience without having encountered that information. There was just too much was being played out in too many places. And I am not in a business to make judgment about people's responses during the (19)60s, but I set out to be in a position so that when I got to 63 years old, I can look back on it and feel good about what I did, and I do. And I did something, and that shaped me for the rest of my life, and I am good with that. I am glad. But I do think the lesson we ought to have learned in all this, is that democracy goes no further than the citizenry will take it. And you believe in something, you have to act on it. [inaudible] is what you do. So either Andy up, or you are not a player, as far as I am concerned. I think that failure, on the part of America, to maintain that kind of intensity about their democracy, is one of the reasons we have got the load of band that we have got.
SM (00:14:28):
Is there one specific event that you think may have had the greatest impact on this boomer generation?
DH (00:14:34):
I think the most seminal and formative, was the assassination of John Kennedy. That turned the world on... For me, that is the day that [inaudible]
SM (00:15:01):
Do you feel that... When did the (19)60s begin, and when did it end?
DH (00:15:06):
Well, it ended, as far as I am concerned, there are two possible end dates. One is 1973 [inaudible] and one is 1975, when [inaudible] was evacuated, and Saigon fell for inmates. In the beginning, I think... I would begin the (19)60s maybe with the emulation of Buddhist Monk in Saigon, somewhere in [inaudible] kind of the Jeremiah, or teller of things to come. Unbelievable event coming from a place nobody imagined much about, would tell us all what was coming.
SM (00:16:16):
What was it about the 1950s? Because a lot of times, when we look at the boomer generation, we concentrate on the (19)60s and the (19)70s, and when they were in high school and college, and early adulthood and their twenties. What about those (19)50s? What role did that did? What was happening in the world at that time, shaped their lives? Because when you look at the... And I am only about a year younger than you are, and when I look at the (19)50s, I know we went through the fear of a nuclear attack all the time, and we heard all about the Cold War and the nuclear bomb destroying us all in one shot. But as children, we grew up watching Howdy Doody, Hop Along Cassidy, all the Westerns. We learned that Native Americans were always the bad guy. Mickey Mouse Club. It seemed like there was a lot of happiness going on in America, and whether it was hiding the bad things, we all knew what was going on in the South, what was going on with African Americans. And the civil rights movement was happening at that time. But what about the (19)50s, and its shaping of the psyche of this group of young people, that as they went into the (19)60s, everything changed?
DH (00:17:34):
Well, I was born two aspects of the (19)50s. And one is, I do not know that I would describe it as a lot of happiness going all around. There was a lot of formulaic living going on. I mean, remember, this is... America in 1956, the country with no options. So if you were a young man growing up in Fresno, California, who I was, who had a choice in John Wayne or John Wayne or John Wayne. It was a remarkably singular culture. And so part of the [inaudible] exploded out of my generation, was just the desire for options, that we had to go out and make ourselves. There was not just one way to live, and that there were lots of ways to live. Some people had lived thousands of different ways. And to continue to participate in a culture which assumed that there was only one way to live, was an enormous mistake. And I think that was the breakout. And there was that inner hook for a long time. People wanted something more. And I think the second thing, was the degree to which our generation believed in the (19)50s. My experience was, most people I was in the movement with, were people who got A's in high school. These were not people who did not buy in. These were people who bought in enormously. We believed that America would never go halfway around the world, to kill people to no good reason. No. I mean, that was an article of faith. I grew up watching people [inaudible] on television. My father was off in the army reserve the entire time I was a child, and my brother was a captain in the second air force, so I bought in. When I was in the fourth grade, I wanted to go to West Point. When I was in the eighth grade, I wanted to be an FBI agent. And I think my experience proved the entire generation. And it was the process of discovering that the bill of goods you had been sold, was a bill of good. We had been told, and believed, and placed our faith in an America that did not exist. I mean, for me, then I crossed the Mason Dixon line on my way to Mississippi, and saw my first black entrance and white entrance, and all that rigmarole certification. It was just, I mean, instantly clear to me that I had been fucking lied to. And I was somebody in my generation who had more contact with black people than almost all my peers, because my father had coached a little league baseball team on the black side of Fresno. Black Fresno, just anywhere West of that. And my father coached a team over there, and I went over for the baseball. And one of three whites. So I at least had a working relationship with black peers, though limited, but far more extensive than by other people [inaudible]-
SM (00:21:16):
Do you feel... Yes. Again, I am only a year younger than you, and I can remember when my dad won a trip to Florida. We went three straight years in (19)57, (19)58, (19)59, in April. Took two weeks off in school. And I remember, I lived up in the Ithaca Cortland area, and we all had nice homes, nice streets and everything. Then as we drove farther and farther South, we drove on these two-lane highways, that the roads that were... I saw all the poverty. I saw a different America, and it was kind of shocking to me. It was shocking. And so I am talking about, we were given a bill of goods. Do you think that many of these boomers had this false sense of security? And then when they got into the (19)60s, the reality of what America truly is, really hit them in the face, and that is why they wanted to make it better?
DH (00:22:11):
I think everybody that went through the (19)60s, had eye-opening experiences. I mean, of all different sorts, but they all amounted to seeing an angle on life, and on America, that we had never imagined growing up.
SM (00:22:33):
What if you were to list some of the strengths and weaknesses of the generation, some characteristics and qualities that you admire and maybe do not admire, what would they be?
DH (00:22:43):
Oh, well I think that we possessed courage and openness.
SM (00:22:55):
And David, could you speak up just a little bit too? Thanks.
DH (00:23:06):
I think on the list, on the plus list, I would put courage and openness, altruism, imagination, sincerity, curiosity. Negative list, I would put... Well, one of the things I would put, would be narcissism as an episodic piece. I think [inaudible] people got enamored.
SM (00:24:21):
Yeah. A lot of the boomers felt that they were the most unique generation in American history. I am sure you have heard this before. Some of my peers who were boomers, still feel they are. Your thoughts on just an attitude that many of the young people back in the (19)60s and (19)70s had, that they were the most unique, because they were going to change the world and make it better. No other generation ever did. And then some attitudes as they have grown older.
DH (00:24:48):
Well, I do not recall at the time, being caught up in making historical judgments about the generation. To me, that was part of overlay.
SM (00:25:07):
How important were the boomers in all the movements? We are going to get in a little bit more about the anti-war movement, and of course the civil rights movement was really happening as boomers were becoming in their late teens and twenties. But how important were the boomers in all of these movements, as it really came to fruition in the late (19)60s, early (19)70s, and have been ongoing today? And I say not... We are talking about the women's movement, the environmental movement and the Native American, Chicano, gay and lesbian movements. Just your thoughts on the issue of movements, and how important this generation was in their creation.
DH (00:25:48):
Well, I think it is one of our signatures.
SM (00:25:56):
Want to go into any detail?
DH (00:25:57):
Well, we were all tested by the notion of organizing. And organizing was one of the things people did in 1960, out of those that organized. But to me, the word boomer, is one of the things that defined the 1960s. For the entire time, I was part of [inaudible] state of political opposition, that at the beginning, had entered the civil rights. And full wide crane of uprising. So yeah, I think that... I suppose, if I try to look to how that inherited, the thirties were, of course, a big movement time as well. And that was our current generation.
SM (00:27:20):
There was obviously a very big generation gap going on at the time between boomers and their parents, the World War II generation. Your thoughts on the impact that the boomer generation has had on their kids, and their grandkids. And we are now dealing with two generations beyond the boomers. We had the generation Xers, that seemed to really have a problem with boomers, in many ways. I worked on university campuses, and we actually had programs where we brought them together. And then the millennials, which are currently today's students, seem to be very close to their parents, and there does not seem to be any generation gap at all. Just your thoughts on the generation gap at that time, and the impact that boomers have had on the lives of their kids and grandkids, if any.
DH (00:28:09):
Well, certainly I pulled things on my parents, as I was going to. And there was a generation gap on some level. It was a transition between worlds. So I felt bad. I did not feel it in much of a personal sense, although my father begged me not to do what I was going to do about that. [inaudible] taking on the government was easy, the hard part was telling your parents.
SM (00:29:02):
How about the influence that, what have boomers done with their kids? I am basically leaning toward the issue of activism, and whether they are...
DH (00:29:12):
Well, I have kids. One, who is currently 40, and one is currently 26 [inaudible] And while both of them have good politics that they care about [inaudible] neither of them became political organizers. Son is 40, my daughter is 26.
SM (00:29:36):
David, could you speak up just a little bit too, so I can catch? Okay.
DH (00:29:54):
Anyway, both my kids got good politics, but they did not become organizers and had no interest in it. And in fact, my daughter kind chose not to, kind of feeling it out for a while.
SM (00:30:14):
What do you think would be the lasting legacy of the boomers? They are now starting to reach senior citizen status, and so they got a lot of years left to have an impact on America. But what do you think history books will say about that era and that time, and that generation?
DH (00:30:33):
Well, I can only say what I think they ought to say, which is, I think they ought to give us credit for significant things. Not all of the same. First, is the end of segregation. For our generation, it was an enormous accomplishment that [inaudible]-
SM (00:31:06):
David, you are being cut off.
DH (00:31:08):
And has meant, I think more, to the shape of modern America than almost anything else. Second, I think that we opened up the university in ways that it was not before. Are now far and more open and original and imaginative way they approach learning, than they ever were at our time. And I think that was largely because of criticism that those... That era brought challenges to it. Third thing, I think that we gave America options. Certainly, if you look around us today, there are 400 television channels. They were all upstairs on my TV. Where we had basically three television options, they were now enormous. And we introduced the notion of spirituality, the notion of insight, of enlightenment, of a different kind of cultural approach that was responsible for making the lives of everyday Americans far more rich, fulfilling than they ever would have been otherwise. Fourth thing we did is, at a moment of the greatest challenge, the ethos of our democracy and one of the greatest abuses of power ever conducted by an American government, namely the Vietnam War, and something that stands out in our history as an obvious war crime, again, that, we stood up and stopped. Three enormous assumptions. And in so doing, changed the relationship between government and citizenry forever. Hey, that is a lot. That is a hell of a lot. And most of that was done before we were 30 years old. So there is something special about that, our particular relationship. But it was a generational thing, and that was not our choice. That was the society, defined by the fact that the only people who were ever asked, who were ever forced to pay a price for that war that demolished out generation, were all under 26. They were not going into anybody else's neighborhood, grabbing people and cocooning them into the military. I think that is a defining experience for the entire time.
SM (00:34:29):
That is interesting, David. I like your thoughts on this. When people of my age and your age talk about the Vietnam War in a college environment, with the current administrators or current students, it is as if... All we are trying to do, is we are nostalgic and we can never forget the times have changed, and let us move on, kind of an attitude. And what is interesting is, a lot of the people that run today's universities, are boomers who may have not been activists in their time, but they know what happened in those times and may fear the rise of activism again, on university campuses. I have experienced this at all the universities I have worked at. Move on. That was part of history, but it was not now. But just your thoughts on that kind of an attitude that seems to be prevalent in America today, that when they criticize-
DH (00:35:27):
The [inaudible] is that... The implicit assumption there, is that somehow caring about the lives lived by your fellow human being, involving yourself, trying to minimize suffering, somehow a commodity that limited a certain period of history. Come on. These are what the culture called eternal truth, when we were practicing them. And I think... I am sure nobody is trying to make the (19)60s happen all over again. Good God, no. I had enough of the (19)60s when I was in the (19)60s. The real point is, how to take those values that motivated us then, that motivated people for hundreds of thousands of years of history, and how to take those and act them out in ways that address the dilemmas facing us as a people, and a civilization. God. What we need to have happen now, is addressing a far different kind of phenomenon. We are about to lose the planet. Civilization is about to flop, and somebody has to be able to step out and start making a sacrifice. It will be required for this to survive in anything we recognize today, as meaningful. All of it is talked over the horizon, but there are serious scientists who are saying things like, by the end of this century, the Earth's population will have been reduced from 9 billion to 1 billion, as a function of climate. Well, I do not know whether that is accurate or not. Maybe he only got it half right, but that is still... I mean, try and visualize half the people in your neighborhood are not alive anymore. That is catastrophic.
SM (00:37:32):
Wow.
DH (00:37:33):
And we are staring down the barrel of that, and paying no attention to it at all. The enemy here, is denial.
SM (00:37:42):
Yeah. It is interesting, because when you bring that up, and when people talk about Al Gore now, they talk about all the money he is making. I read about it. Oh, he is flying an airplane. He is not living his principles. They find any way they possibly can, to destroy an individual who may be trying to put his name out there to try to save the universe, or for a cause. They always try to find the Achilles tendon and the person who is making a plea, or being different than others in their thinking.
DH (00:38:14):
And I think it is also a function of a larger thing. Whatever political, whatever [inaudible] And that happened left, right, and sideways.
SM (00:38:37):
Right. This next question I want to ask, really deals with the issue of healing within the nation. Jan Scruggs, who was the founder of the Vietnam Memorial, wrote a book on, to heal a nation. That was the title of his book, When the Wall was Built. I am going to read this question to make sure I get it all correct, so that you hear it. Do you feel boomers are still having a problem from healing from the divisions that tore the nation apart in their youth? Division between black and white, divisions between those who support authority and those who do not, division between those who supported the tropes and those who did not. You hear that all the time today. Of course, what roles the wall played in... And I know it has played a lot with veterans, but I am not sure if it was done much for the rest of the nation. And do you feel that the boomer generation will go to their grave, like many in the civil war generation, not truly healing from these divisions? Am I wrong in thinking this? Or has 40 years made the statement, time heals all wounds, the truth?
DH (00:39:46):
No, I think there is all kinds of outstanding accounts in this war that we have managed to sweep under the rug, by labeling it as a mistake. Mistake is a genius way to talk about it, because it can be a mistake, because it violated [inaudible] precedent, or it can be a mistake [inaudible] when we had the chance. It covers everything, and allows us to kind of fluff it off without ever taking moral responsibility for what happened, and about ever going through the exercise of trying talk to each other about what exactly did happen. And so I think there is lots of stuff out there. We let ourselves off, and not digest the experience. So there has never been a format for us to talk about it, except these kind shots fired off from the right wing every now and then, about the syndrome. There is no serious discussion about the war and what communications of it were. And so that means all the divisions are still out there.
SM (00:41:21):
I can remember, during Reagan's presidency, his whole effort was to bring America back to what it used to be. And then when George Bush Sr. became president, he was the one that proclaimed that the Vietnam syndrome is over.
DH (00:41:34):
Well I mean, Reagan was certainly frustrated. [inaudible] So there was one war we saved the country from. I think that, certainly George Bush Sr. [inaudible] I mean, what really happened there, was not about any syndrome being recovered from. Really here, it was the kind of balance of power in the society, in which the forces of the military were being held at bay by the experience of Vietnam War. And I think, certainly that those forces got empowered by George Bush Sr. And he did not make the mistake of trying to extend them in place [inaudible] But his son, I think is absolute triumph of that kind of [inaudible] And I think that filter is going to become increasingly correct, by virtue of the forces. It is how it should be.
SM (00:43:17):
Dave, let me change the side of my tape here. Hold on one second.
DH (00:43:20):
Sure.
SM (00:43:31):
All right, we are back. It is kind of a follow-up to that question on the healing. I took a group of students, about five, maybe six years ago, to Washington DC, before Senator Musky died. And he had just gotten out of the hospital, and these 14 students were some of the best student leaders on our campus. And we had a whole series of questions that we had picked to ask him. And many of them wanted to ask this question about the healing from the 1968 convention, because they had seen it on black and white tape and everything. And they wanted to know if we had healed as a nation from that. And we were waiting. And he had just gotten out of the hospital and he had been watching Ken Burns series on the Civil War. And when we asked the question, he kind of almost gave us a minute of total silence, and it was obviously a very emotional question for him. And then he finally answered, "We have not healed since the Civil War." And then he went on for about a 15-minute lecture on the Civil War and how the divisions in America at that time, were still part of the American scene. He was very upset for the loss of life, that over 400,000 people had died in that war, and was almost an entire generation of children that would never be born because of brother fighting against brother. Just your thoughts on that, as a person who was young in the early (19)60s, who went South and saw some of these terrible things of injustice in America in the 1960s. But if you go to Gettysburg, you still see a lot of things left at the tombstones. I go there four or five times a year, out of curiosity, just to see what is left. And on the confederate sides, there is still a love for the Confederacy. So just your thoughts on that.
DH (00:45:26):
Well, obviously that Civil War did not get resolved, because I was a 19-year old in order to try and clear that up again. That bondage has not ceased exist. And I resist strongly, the description of the Civil War, simply as brother fighting against brothers. Certainly that happened [inaudible] but not some random act where brothers felt they had to fight each other. This was because one set of people insisted on the right to buy and sell other people, as though they were cattle. That is why there was a Civil War. That is why 400,000 people died. And I consider it tantamount... I have been to South Carolina, where they fly that fucking stars and bars. As far as I am concerned, it is like walking in and seeing a swastika flag.
SM (00:46:34):
Yeah, you are right.
DH (00:46:37):
This is slavery we are talking about here. There is no great romantic Southern life. And I certainly feel that most retrograde parts of America are in the old Confederacy. And I am sure they do admire it, and I think that is much to the detriment of the country and the species of humanity. And I have a lot of friends South, who I certainly would not put in a lump with them, but that is what it was about. And let us not glorify this thing here. They have enough perspective to know now, just how obscene the jury segregation was, how much... We talked about terrorists. I mean, terrorists are people who walk into somebody's house, drag them out in the street and lynch them, because they are black. That is terrorism. And all those states South of the Mason-Dixon line, and a whole bunch of other ones who are not South, they try and nourish that and glamorize that. And they can go down to all the racetracks they want, with their stars and bars, but it does not make it any different than what it was.
SM (00:48:07):
Yeah. That is what is always intrigued me about when I go to Gettysburg, because I see so many cars from the South, and I know they love America and everything. But I drive on both sides, and the majority of the statues and monuments are on the Northern side. But it is the Southern side where things are left, and I am amazed there is still something going on here. And I think we know, even with President Obama in the White House, that we still got a long way to go in this country.
DH (00:48:42):
Well, it is not the jury segregation anymore. We have come a long way. But absolutely, I think that there are a lot of people still in the country, who cannot accept the notion that people who are not white, are just as valuable and just as important as people who are not.
SM (00:49:03):
One of the qualities... Another other big issue, beyond healing, is the issue of trust. There were so many leaders that lied to us when we were young, and of course, the leaders have lied probably throughout our history. But we all remember Eisenhower lying about the U2 incident on national television. We know about the Gulf and Tonkin with LBJ. We know about Watergate and all the lies and the enemies lists and everything that Nixon did. I have even read in recent years, about Kennedy and Vietnam, even though Sorenson's recent book basically states that he had nothing to do with the coup there. He encouraged the coup, but he did not want them to die. But still, there has been so many lies that come through, just about all the presidents. Just your thoughts on the shaping of the boomers as a not very trustful generation, and whether they have passed this quality of lack of trust onto their kids and their grandchildren. And I preface this question with one other item. I can remember being in... I went to Binghamton University, (19)66 to (19)70. And I can remember in my intro class in psychology, the professor saying to us in a lecture on trust, that if you cannot trust, you will not be a success in life. You have got to be able to trust somebody. Trust is a very important quality in a human being. Just your thoughts on whether maybe a quality within the boomer generation, is that they do not trust.
DH (00:50:37):
Well, I would not make that generalization. I think it is not that people lost their capacity to trust, it just became quite clear that, that trust was not an automatic. Issue is not whether we are willing to trust government, and somehow become a character flaw that cannot get around the issue of the process. No. I think what has happened, is what the process of trust is doing to trust. You do not get trust, simply because you have got a majority of people who would show up on November, the first Tuesday in November, in your congressional district. Simply because you do that, does not give some kind of automatic way over what the country is supposed to be. And they cannot simply hand over power. There is some things that you do not trust anybody, other than yourself, but that you have to trust yourself. So I would define it a little differently than that. I do not feel like I am not a successful person, but I think once burned... How many times do you have to go through that process, before you assume that it has a given, and not the other. So how many times do you have to be lied to before you start worrying that people are doing? I mean, I think it is a totally rational position, not the incapacity to trust. Trust each other [inaudible] some of my closest friends from those days.
SM (00:52:39):
As a history political science major, which I was years ago, I can remember that trust being a quality that... Not trusting your government is actually a good quality, because it keeps them on their toes. So that kind of feeling. I got a question here, because you are a great writer, by the way.
DH (00:52:58):
Thank you.
SM (00:52:58):
You are a great writer. I first came upon your writing when I bought the book Goliath, way back when it first came out. And then of one of your recent books, Our War. And of course Dreams, the one on Allard Lowenstein. Yeah, great books. And I wanted to ask a question on these three books. How do the three books, combined in your own unique way, define the boomer generation in their times, when you were young? Everyone has quality. And to me, when I have read them... And I have to reread your, Dreams Die Hard, because I read it years ago. But when I lived... Actually, I lived out in California, and I lived in Berlingame from (19)76 to (19)83. And I remember I bought the book, I think it was (19)82 when it came out. So I brought it there, and I read it there. And of course, I had Goliath already. But those books are really classics. They-they should be required reading, to me, in the classroom, some of them. Just your thoughts on how all three of them kind of define your generation.
DH (00:54:12):
Well, I think that they certainly... first, thanks for all the kind words. I feel that they are all great books, and I think they should be required reading. And each of them was, for me, an attempt at different times, and in different ways, to come terms with what that experience was. And so Goliath was obviously contemporaneous. That was me writing from the middle of it all. Basically, I wrote the book in the last three months before I went to prison. And Dreams Die Hard was a book that I could not-not write, when I got a phone call saying that Dennis Sweeny had shot Allard K. It was like, oh, God.
SM (00:55:20):
Yeah.
DH (00:55:21):
There was a kind of triangle, a life triangle there, between me and [inaudible] I write for a living, and there is no way I could pass that one off. And I felt the kind of obligation to do so, that it should come to this so many years later, needed an explanation. Only explanation was to go back to where it all started. And Our War was a kind of conscious effort, at age 50, to look backwards at the war that had defined my life, and try to talk about it as clearly as I could. And I think all of them framed part of the kind of overlap play, part of that experience of the generation. Absolutely.
SM (00:56:19):
Do you feel... I would like your thoughts on today's university. You made a comment on it, and I want you to respond to something that I feel very strongly about. And that is, that universities today, whether they be state universities or Ivy League schools or community colleges, or technical schools, I do not care where it is, are afraid of activism. They propose and love volunteerism, they love... And most students are in volunteer activities. But I have always felt that activism is the step beyond volunteerism. Activism is 24/7, whereas volunteerism may be a requirement, or doing something once a week or once every two weeks. And I say this, because we had an activist series at our campus, and Tom Hayden came, and we had the Bergen Brothers and we had a really good series. And people above us, said that this is not what our university's about, and encouraged us to stop the activist lecture series. From that point on, I figured there is something going on here. And I started thinking that maybe today's universities are run by boomers, or young people that are younger than boomers, that are afraid of a revival of what could happen again on university campuses, which is protests against the Afghan War, or any kind of an issue. They are afraid of them, of bringing back memories of disruption of classes and the university shutting down, students asking more questions than they should be asking. As Tom said when he was on our campus, understanding the difference between empowerment and power, and the students were shocked, but the administrator’s kind of said, oh, he should not have said that. And so just your thoughts on the universities today, and whether they fear activism.
DH (00:58:17):
Well, I think volunteerism, first, is an admirable activity. I probably would not want to come down against it, but I think that activism, I associate with more, rather than exercising altruism. It was obviously a good thing to do. It was really an attempt to exercise power, which is a very different kind of thing. And anybody who is in power, is going to have problems with the people who think that, that power ought to be shared out. Nobody likes to give it up. And I think certainly that most... I assume, amongst college administrators, there is this boogeyman, which is the 1960s. [inaudible] authority of college administrators, which shall never before. And the modern university has become increasingly incorporated. And so I think everything gets determined on the basis, largely, of how it is going to affect fundraising. And retired political organizers are not doing great a source of funding for-
SM (00:59:35):
Yeah, you are darn right.
DH (00:59:45):
And so I think it is a character of the modern university. And on one hand, it has become a far better and more responsive institution, in that it has opened its intellectual horizon in ways... Were not the case when I was... I mean, nowadays [inaudible] can basically write their own majors, on any subject they can make a case on. God, you would kill for that in my era. That was one of the things I spent hours with administrators, screaming back and forth about it, disagreeing back and forth, when I was student body resident at Stanford. And hey, when I got elected, part of my platform was equal rights for men and women students.
SM (01:00:35):
Go into that a little bit. Tell me a little bit about your student experience at Stanford.
DH (01:00:38):
Well, I was there as far as Stanford pushed to open itself to the middle class, to take a leap from finishing school for California [inaudible] to Harvard and West. And to do that, they made an opening for the middle class [inaudible] For example, at my high school in Fresno, California, public high school in Fresno, they took seven members of my graduating class. That is unheard of. You never heard of people going to Stanford the year before that. All of a sudden, they started opening up. I was part of it, had the scholarship on there. And I felt that the university at the time, was a real high bound kind of institution. My election as student body president of Stanford, was remarkable on many fronts. First of all, I did not want to run for president, and someone approached me to run for president, saying I had all these things about education [inaudible] why do not I run for student body president? [inaudible] they gave me a guarantee that I would not get more than 500 votes. And we went out and talked about student regulations, about the University of Scholars. And there were [inaudible] administrators and faculty [inaudible] And cooperation for Vietnam, to get the legalization of marijuana in there. But we had a whole list of things, and right at the top, was the rights for students. Woman stayed out all night, and men stayed out all night. [inaudible] And so I ran for student body president, I talked about some stuff, and if I had won the election in Berkeley, nobody would have noticed. But a place like Stanford, from conservative, for someone... They called me radical, was what I was called, in work shirt and Levis, vest mock, barrel in my ear. If I could feel like Stanford National News. And I spent the next year having discussions with faculty administrators who were bizarre, to say the least. I can remember in the discussion with a group of faculty administrators, [inaudible] five faculty, five students all met. And we started arguing about women having the same rights as men. Essentially, the English department... And basically said, "Hey, if we do this, do not start having sex." And I said, I am sorry to tell you this, but that horse is already out of the barn. It happened. But can you imagine that discussion today?
SM (01:05:10):
Geez. Oh my gosh.
DH (01:05:13):
We have learned something. But by and large, the issue of empowerment and who are the legitimate members of the community, and how should their interest represented the decision making, has basically progressed not one width. Lots more options available, but students still do not make great choices.
SM (01:05:45):
David, what were the books that students were reading when you were a college student, and maybe in the early part of the movement too? Were there books written by authors that really influenced you and some of your peers?
DH (01:06:01):
Yeah, it is funny. I mentioned Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem. Well, for entertainment, we all read Fonica.
SM (01:06:14):
Right.
DH (01:06:14):
And Richard Brodigan, he had a lot of [inaudible] civilization. Yeah [inaudible]-
SM (01:06:14):
Yeah.
DH (01:06:14):
A big one for me, and a lot of people I knew, was also Gandhi, an autobiography.
SM (01:07:20):
Do you remember the books, the Greening of America, by Charles Reich, and The Making of a Counterculture, by Theodore Roszak?
DH (01:07:26):
I remember Theodore Roszak's book, and that was [inaudible] around the time. Greening of America was never a book that...
SM (01:07:42):
Right.
DH (01:07:42):
If I recall, right at the end of the 1960s.
SM (01:07:49):
Yep.
DH (01:07:50):
Oh, Paul Goodman [inaudible]
SM (01:07:53):
Oh yeah, that is a big one. Yep. Who were the favorite musicians, and how would you define how music defined the boomer generation, or vice versa? Because when we are talking about the music of this period, we are not only talking about rock and folk, we are talking about the Motown sound. They are all kind of combined here. But when you think of the (19)60s and you think of the boomer generation, who are the musicians that you most admired, and you think had the greatest impact on the generation?
DH (01:08:29):
Well, there is one, hands down. [inaudible] Dylan was a poet at the time. Not like that.
SM (01:08:37):
Who was that now?
DH (01:08:41):
Bob Dylan.
SM (01:08:41):
Oh, yeah.
DH (01:08:42):
And he was poet at the time. And so what he came close to... Influence that Dylan had on everything. All of us have grown up in [inaudible] The first concert I ever went to see was when Ray Charles came to Fresno. And part of the identification people had with black people, was the music and all the big [inaudible]
SM (01:09:41):
Yeah. I tell you. Was there a rock group that was your favorite?
DH (01:09:45):
Well, there was... I love the Beatles. How could I not? They were phenomenal. And I was on more intimate terms with the San Francisco band. And so when I was a freshman at Stanford, [inaudible] right off campus, and [inaudible] and one of his regular acts was this Jerry Garcia.
SM (01:10:28):
Oh, yeah.
DH (01:10:29):
Then became Warlock [inaudible] and then became the Grateful Death.
SM (01:10:43):
Yeah.
DH (01:10:43):
And when I ran for student body president, we had a rock concert, a local stamp stand, and to get the amplifiers speakers that we needed to do the concert [inaudible]
SM (01:11:00):
Oh my gosh. Great slicks. Yep.
DH (01:11:05):
That was all done. That was 1966, for that stupid, going to San Francisco with a flower in your hair song.
SM (01:11:16):
That is Lee Hazelwood.
DH (01:11:19):
Haight-Ashbury got discovered.
SM (01:11:20):
Right.
DH (01:11:21):
And that little episode got [inaudible] But before that [inaudible] when I got into it, in my first kind of... At the same time I was listening Bo Diddley, I was also listening to Joan Baez.
SM (01:11:50):
Yeah, of course, you were married to her. Yep.
DH (01:11:52):
Yeah.
SM (01:11:54):
Yeah, I got a lot of her albums.
DH (01:11:58):
Yeah. So all the music passed through me, but Bob Dylan was the man. I mean, he is the only guy who I was waiting.
SM (01:12:12):
What was really interesting, is that three weeks ago, my brother went to physical therapy over in Bucks County, and I just accompanied him. And I am sitting out in the hallway, and there is this old couple, older couple, they were in their (19)80s, that came in. And the gentleman walked right in, and I got to talking to the lady, and I was wearing a Kent State shirt. And she started talking about Kent State in 1970. And then she said, "Oh, by the way, my son was married to Grace Slick." I did a triple flip. Her son was married to Grace Slick for I think 11 years. And he was the sound person for that particular group. And now, I guess he is the sound person for a hotel in Atlantic City and the Wacovia Center here in Philadelphia. But he was the first husband of Grace Slick. What a small world. She said, "Oh, Grace was so nice. We had her over to dinner." So it is a very small world at times. You have obviously been to the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, when you saw it for the first time, what feelings were going through your mind?
DH (01:13:27):
Say that again.
SM (01:13:28):
The Vietnam Memorial in Washington, what impact really, has that had on healing the nation, in your thoughts? And secondly, what was the impact when you first saw it for the first time, that it had on you?
DH (01:13:43):
Well, I do not think it healed anything, but the first step towards healing is recognition of what the experience was. And I think it is a remarkable memorial for that. Recognizing had a kind of fundamental [inaudible] I consider it beautiful, and extraordinarily impressive.
SM (01:14:19):
What does Kent State and Jackson State mean to you?
DH (01:14:24):
Well, probably less than they do to most people, because I was in the isolation cell block when Kent State happens. So word of it... And things like the Cambodia demonstrations and [inaudible] they were remote.
SM (01:14:54):
How about Watergate? And then when I say these terms, the influence you think they had on the boomer generation, you personally, but mostly the boomer generation.
DH (01:15:07):
Well, Watergate was enormous. And the experience of it, whether it impacted or not, is another question. But the experience of it, was that we had finally won one. [inaudible] And I was up, dealing with... Of course, tried for war crimes. And Henry Kissinger was one of the worst people ever.
SM (01:15:38):
How about Woodstock?
DH (01:15:42):
Another one of those really remote things to which I have become associated, basically because when my wife, in her song on Woodstock, dedicated to me off in prison. And that made... That cut made the movie. So to me, Woodstock was so far off, not a particular interest.
SM (01:16:07):
How about the year 1968?
DH (01:16:09):
The year (19)68? Well, I was here when things started to come apart. And that is when they really... Of course, dominated by the [inaudible] Particularly, Martin Luther King.
SM (01:16:31):
When you think of these two terms, what do you think of the hippies and the yippies?
DH (01:16:39):
Well, hippies, I think of Haight-Ashbury, and the first time I walked down Haight-Ashbury in late [inaudible] So that is what I think of hippies. Yippies, I think [inaudible]
SM (01:17:00):
Right. Students for Democratic society and the weatherman.
DH (01:17:08):
Well, I always have big feelings about SDS, on the one hand. And SDS is kind of an umbrella organization that was different at every campus [inaudible] But a lot of the SDS national organizers who operated in California at the time, had a real problem. [inaudible] So I have an unmixed feeling about the weathermen.
SM (01:17:52):
Could you speak up again, David? Because I cannot hear you very good.
DH (01:17:54):
The weatherman, I do not have mixed feelings about the weatherman. My feelings about them are very clear. I think the guys' full of shit. That they distorted the movement, and they represent... The worst part of that is, I resent them being somehow a symbol of any sort of the movement. It had nothing to do with it.
SM (01:18:26):
Yeah. Yeah, I know President Obama is getting criticized because of Bill Ayers and the links to him. The Vietnam veterans against the war?
DH (01:18:37):
Well, I organized with the PVA After I get out of prison, to put together several projects. One of our partners. I had a lot of close friends.
SM (01:18:55):
The Richard Nixon's enemies list.
DH (01:19:02):
Pitiful.
SM (01:19:05):
I have had some actual... A couple interviewees who said, "I am honored to have been on it."
DH (01:19:09):
Fine.
SM (01:19:15):
The last part of the interview is just responding to some of the personalities of the period.
DH (01:19:21):
Okay.
SM (01:19:21):
And some of the terms. Your thoughts on Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin.
DH (01:19:28):
Abbie Hoffman was one of the funniest guys I ever met, and I thought he was the real deal. Jerry Rubin, con-artist, phony.
SM (01:19:39):
Timothy Leary.
DH (01:19:41):
Another con-artist [inaudible]
SM (01:19:57):
How about Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern?
DH (01:20:04):
Well, I think they are both terribly flawed, but in the right place.
SM (01:20:12):
John Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy.
DH (01:20:17):
Well, John Kennedy was my childhood, so associated with him. And Bobby Kennedy, I associated with 1968.
SM (01:20:30):
How about Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew?
DH (01:20:38):
Despicable pairing.
SM (01:20:42):
How about the Black Panthers? Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Eldridge Cleaver, Kathleen Kay Leever, Angela Davis, that group.
DH (01:20:51):
Well, I have the advantage, having covered them as a journalist, when I started working [inaudible 01:21:03] and I think that they were also phonys. And not that they could back up some of what they did [inaudible] Yeah, so I am not a fan of the black panthers.
SM (01:21:30):
How about Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey?
DH (01:21:35):
Well, I think of Lyndon Johnson as a big mistake, with a capital M. Hubert Humphrey [inaudible]
SM (01:21:48):
Robert McNamara.
DH (01:21:50):
Tragic guy, on the one hand. [inaudible] But having said that, my other feeling [inaudible]
SM (01:22:08):
I did not quite get that last sentence.
DH (01:22:23):
A lot of kids went off to dive, because he did not speak up at the time.
SM (01:22:27):
Yep. George Wallace and Ronald Reagan.
DH (01:22:34):
Well, George Wallace [inaudible] Ronald Reagan, second coming of [inaudible]
SM (01:22:51):
How about Dr. Benjamin Spock and Daniel Ellsberg?
DH (01:22:56):
Well, I knew both of the guys, and I think both of them were right on, and both of them were played incredibly [inaudible] in turning the country around. Take my hat off to them.
SM (01:23:14):
Daniel and Phillip Berrigan.
DH (01:23:15):
[inaudible]
SM (01:23:16):
What about Barry Goldwater?
DH (01:23:27):
Looking back on him from this point, he seemed like such a benign conservative, that I wish [inaudible]
SM (01:23:35):
What about Dwight Eisenhower?
DH (01:23:35):
Everybody's daddy.
SM (01:23:42):
And then the other two presidents, Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.
DH (01:23:48):
Well, the last one was a loser from the get-go, and first one became more of a loser [inaudible] become a big winner as an expert.
SM (01:24:05):
How about the women leaders? Gloria Steinem, Bella Abk, Betty Friedan, leaders of the Women's Movement.
DH (01:24:18):
[inaudible] Yeah, of course.
SM (01:24:22):
Yeah. Couple other terms from that period, because they were important to youth. Tet.
DH (01:24:30):
Well, great moment. Revelation.
SM (01:24:46):
How about people like Walter Cronkite and the news media at the time? How important were they to the boomers?
DH (01:24:55):
Well, Walter Cronkite, of course, had all the information. [inaudible] As for the rest of them, they learned as they went along. By the time it came, printing [inaudible]
SM (01:25:30):
How important were the college students in ending the Vietnam War, and what do you think was the number one reason? I know the helicopters went off in 1975, and for all intents and purposes, in 1973, we were out of there. But what was the ultimate reason why the Vietnam War ended?
DH (01:25:56):
Because it became impossible to continue. That is why it did not. The combination of public sentiment and military collapse. Remember, [inaudible] one out of four were killed. [inaudible]
SM (01:26:26):
Right.
DH (01:26:26):
[inaudible]
SM (01:26:50):
If you were before an audience of college students today, and I am sure you probably still go out and speak.
(End of Interview)
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with David Victor Harris
Contributor
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Harris, David, 1946- ; McKiernan, Stephen
Format
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audio/wav
Subject
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Journalists; Authors; Political activists--United States; Harris, David, 1946--Interviews
Description
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David Victor Harris is a journalist, author, and activist. He was an anti-war activist and the first person arrested for refusing to register for the draft in the late 1960's. He was the student government president at Stanford University.
David Victor Harris is a journalist, author, and activist. He was a leading opponent of the draft during the Vietnam War, which began during his college days at Stanford University. As a young college student, he became involved in the Civil Rights Movement where he joined students from all over the country in the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee's (SNCC) 1964 voter registration campaign in Mississippi. In 1966, he became president of the Stanford University student body, and as a leading critic of the draft, he formed a group called the Resistance. Harris was the first person arrested for refusing to register for the draft in 1968. In his later years, Harris has received journalistic praise for his non-fiction books on his experiences in the sixties and seventies along with other books connected to personalities or issues in those times.
Harris died from lung cancer at his home in Mill Valley on February 6, 2023, at the age of 76.
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Date
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2009-11-06
Rights
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In Copyright
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.13
Date Modified
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2017-03-14
Is Part Of
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McKiernan Interviews
Extent
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86:58