12 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6e6f33bdc43f2cbab131a77825d92ce9.mp3 f84ed1b58756b452d14a5699d7b33ff9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:14 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56033">Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart</a> Subject LCSH Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Interview by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 26 April 1978 Dan: Well Slam, would you give me the—your life and working experiences starting with your date and place of birth? Slam: Well I was born, ah, born and raised in ah, Englewood, New Jersey, quite a few years ago—that goes back to 1914, and of course I, coming up, I went through at least got through High School and ah as far as ah my musical career, I may as well start out by saying that ah who, when I was about ah six years old seven years old, I started out playing the little violin—squeak box—and ah it lasted for a while until I ah got into my first year in High School and ah somehow I didn't care for too much for the little violin—I became interested in the ah big fiddle—the bull fiddle, which they happened to have in the school—in the music room at school and somehow I got around to the point of trying, trying this bass fiddle out and I had to have one of the ah violinists in the orchestra to show me how to even tune it—I didn't even have the ah, didn't have the ah knowledge of the big one so that's the way I started playing my ah bass fiddle—that's what started me ah in my bass fiddle car—well my career, you might say, playing music. After I got out of the High School I went to Boston Conservatory of Music—this was around 1934 and ah studied for a year or two in Boston. At the same time, I was getting quite a bit of experience playing to a couple of nightclubs in and around Boston and that was the beginning of ah, you might say ah my musical happenings. Of course while I was ah playing and working at music around Boston—I wouldn’t say that I wasn't, I hadn't really become a professional at that time until I ah left Boston a few years after I started up there and ah came back close to home around New York City, where I, I made my rounds ah getting into everything I could get into musically, that is ah jam sessions uptown and Harlem and what have you and ah I ah started working on ah 52nd Street. Of course before then—that came a little later 52nd Street—before then, I teamed up with ah a young man ah we ah called ourselves ah this other fella’s name was Slim, Slim Gaillard that is and of course I teamed up with Slim and ah we were trying to get a professional name for me—he'd already more or less had been a professional—so we were trying to get a name for me and ah that’s how I came upon the name of "Slam" ah playing with ah doin our act together "Slim and Slam" for me and so that was really the beginning of my ah professional ah career in, in music—playing the bass fiddle and during this time I, I had developed a style of playing the bass ah in a way that ah no other bass player really in the jazz field had played it. Matter of fact I, I studied ah a technique of humming my hot jazz solos and humming along with ah what I played an octave higher than what I was playing to make this ah, you might say, a unique ah jazz style of playing the bass and it became quite popular. So I kept that in and I’M still, still trying to do it today and enhance upon it of course. I'm always trying to learn something new and ah like I said that was the beginning of my professional career in ah music. After I was with Slim, Slim and I lasted about oh maybe two or three years—something like that. Then ah our team broke up because he had to go into the Army and ah— Dan: This was around the first World War: 1919, 1918? Slam: That's right—no not quite that far back. Dan: No let’s see, that would be 2nd World War. Slam: The second one, yeah. Dan: This goes back to ’41. Slam: ’41 - right. Dan: OK. Slam: Of course Slim and I, we collaborated upon the, a huge, a great big, big hit record which was ah called, everybody I know everybody will remember it, "Flat Foot Floogie (with a Floy Floy)." Dan: Ah that was a big hit. Slam: That was our, our big hit. Dan: Uh huh, in other words did you compose that yourself? Slam: Well Slim and I collaborated upon this, this ah number. Dan: The lyrics and the words? Slam: Yes that's right. Dan: Is that right—that was a big number—I can remember that myself. Slam: That was really it for us. Mrs. Stewart: They buried it in the time capsule at the World's Fair. Dan: Is that right? Slam: Buried in the time capsule—the World's Fair ah 1939. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Yes, in New York so anyway after I broke up with ah—we broke up and I went my way. I ah, I played with ah a couple of groups—that's when I started ah more or less working on the famous ah 52nd Street ah I ah before I went on the street that is, I joined, ah, Art Tatum—the great blind pianist. I joined Art Tatum out in California and ah, we, ah, did quite a few things out on the coast and worked our way back to ah to New York City, that is 52nd Street where I played with ah Art Tatum—this on ah at a place called the “Three Deuces” and that was really ah the beginning of a wonderful career. I ah played there with Art Tatum until, ah, see, ah, Art Tatum became ah, ill one night—he couldn't make our sessions, ah, so I tried to make ends meet by ah—I had heard of a wonderful ah pianist down the street at another club and ah his name was Earl, Earl Garner. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah I had been down to this club listening to Earl once in a while, he was workin’ about the same time on the Street—that's what we called 52nd Street, the street you know. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah somehow, ah, I got an idea—this place the “Three Deuces” where, where I was working ah—it was left upon me really. The manager of the place asked me to see what I could do to replace ah Art Tatum—he couldn't make it and thought for a minute, why didn't I run down the Street and see Earl Garner and see if he can kind of help us out—so that's what I did and ah he ah, his boss, Earl's boss, he was working a place called the Torondelaose an his boss—I asked his boss and Earl, could Earl help me out to play a couple of sets or so with me in the “Three Deuces” while Art couldn't, couldn’t make it and it, it was so nice of his boss to let Earl do this, ah, Earl with—here's what happened—Earl would play his couple of sets in his place and run down to my place the “Three Deuces,” our place and fill in and took Art, Art Tatum's place with what we call eventually my trio and we had on guitar John Collins at the time and so that happened for ah ah few nights. Art wasn't still able to make it. As a matter of fact ah we found out that Art was becoming very seriously ill so he had to go back to California so that ah left it up to me to keep things going at the “Three Deuces” which eventually ah Earl Garner’s boss let him join me ah permanently, you know—it was awfully nice of him to ah to have him to do that, you know—so Earl became a permanent, ah, member of ah my trio. Dan: And you called yourself what? Slam: The "Slam Stewart Trio." Dan: "Slam Stewart Trio." Mrs. Stewart: And you took him into the Strand Theater too. Slam: Yes and I ah I eventually we ah got ah hold of a drummer when made it a "Slam Stewart Quartet" and which my wife just said that ah we went, we played the ah quite a few theaters up and down the east coast especially the ah Strand Theater in New York City and that lasted for quite a while on and off ah let’s see around ’46. Mrs. Stewart: ’45. Slam: ’45 I got an offer from Benny Goodman, who was working down the street not too far from the ah “Three Deuces” on 6th Avenue at the ah theater which was, which was called ah “Seven Lively Arts” I believe it was and ah it was sort of a show that Benny and his sextet was doing at the theater. So I got a call from Benny if he asked me would I play the show with him, which I do it, which I did and ah it wasn't too hard on me because ah the show ah started at 9 o'clock, I think it went from 9 until approximately 10 to 10:30 and at the same time I went and did this show with ah Benny, Benny Goodman and at the same time I had to rush back to the “Three Deuces” to fulfill that ah gig there, you know—so that was the first time I had experience with ah Benny Goodman. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And during that time of course, Earl Garner left me and ah went his way with his own group and ah I stayed with Benny Goodman and that lasted for a year or so. Mrs. Stewart: Two years. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: You forgot to tell him that in the early ’40s you made a lot of movies. Slam: Oh yes I— Mrs. Stewart: You did a Broadway show too. Slam: I did a Broadway show with ah ah Lady Day, Billie Holliday and I also did I think another one—Broadway show, I forget the name of it but anyway I was— Dan: Was this when you were with Earl Garner? Slam: Ah— Dan: Or was this "Slam Stewart Trio"? Slam: Slam Stewart, ah, Trio. Dan: Yes, with Earl Garner. Slam: No, no I was in and out ah in other words it could have been when I was with Goodman. Dan: Yeah. Slam: But ah the one show that I did at the Strand Theater, I had Earl Garner with me then. Dan: I see. Slam: At that time but ah, ah when I went with ah Goodman I, that isn't all that I did, you know, I would ah do a little other things outside of playing ah ah Benny—I was recording, in fact I recorded quite a bit. Dan: Umhm. Slam: During the ’40s, I recorded on just about with everybody you can think of and I must have made ah, which included Benny Goodman Sextet, Lionel Hampton, Dizzy Gillespie—you name them, I— Dan: (laughter) Slam: I made so many recordings I must have made during the ’40s at least up to 200 or more 250 or more sides with ah different groups. Dan: Uh huh—any gold records in there? Slam: Any ah gold records? Mrs. Stewart: Most of it was classics. Slam: Ah most of them—not ah that one the for that I did with Slim—that was a gold record. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: “Flat Foot Floogie.” Dan: Yeah. Slam: And ah let’s see what others—I made so many recordings that I can't remember them. Dan: Uh huh—sure. Slam: You know it is kind of hard. Dan: Where have you been in your travels, Slam? Slam: Well I have, ah, I've been quite a few places in the world. I've been to Europe, ah, I've been to Australia—I've never been to Japan or China, but ah, most, ah, many places in Europe. Dan: Umhm. Slam: And I’ve been to ah not South America—what's the place—the island? Mrs. Stewart: Puerto Rico. Slam: Puerto Rico. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: Hawaii. Slam: Hawaii—that’s right. Dan: Now is this with a group, Slam? Slam: Well ah, ah, I ah, I joined a group on, ah, most of the places. Dan: I see, I see. Slam: You know. Dan: In other words you were a soloist and then you joined a group at each place that you went. Slam: That's right, yes. Mrs. Stewart: He's appeared about 20 times just since we've been in Binghamton. Slam: Oh sure, yes. Mrs. Stewart: And taking your own groups too. Slam: Yeah, well the years have passed and ah, oh, I've been through quite a, quite a few things. Say, for instance, I’ve ah, been with, ah, Benny Goodman again, my second time around with him, and— Dan: Were you with Duke Ellington at any time? Slam: No, I've never been with him—I've sat in with him. Dan: Cab Calloway? Slam: Ah no, I've never—the only large band that I've had experience with is, ah, Benny Goodman's large band. Dan: Yeah. Slam: Which I recorded with, mostly. Dan: Right. Slam: But ah most of my experience with Benny Goodman ever was just with the, ah, small group. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Sextet. Mrs. Stewart: One of the movies you made was with Cab. Slam: Yeah I made one movie with ah which Cab was in. Mrs. Stewart: Fats Waller. Slam: With Fats Waller. Mrs. Stewart: You played the sax in that one. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: But Cab's Band was in the movie—he made more than one movie though—this sounds like he made one—he made a lot of additional—still running too—see them on television. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: This one we’re talking about, ah, was called “Stormy Weather.” Dan: Umhm. Mrs. Stewart: Hellzapoppin’—you were in that. Slam: Hellzapoppin’—I was in that. “Oh Boy What a Girl.” Mrs. Stewart: “Red, White and Blue.” Slam: What have you—oh geez. Dan: Where were these movies made, were they made down in New York? Slam: No, in Hollywood. Dan: Hollywood, uh huh. Slam: A long time has passed. Dan: Well you’re still active, aren't you Slam? Slam: Yes I am, ah, fairly active—not as much as I used to be of course. I have, ah, played with ah symphonies, say for instance with the, ah, Indianapolis Symphony, the Binghamton Symphony of course and Toronto Symphony and I played with the Lincoln String Quartet, ah. Mrs. Stewart: Harpsichordist. Slam: Harpsichordist. Mrs. Stewart: Classical music. Slam: Classical, yes. Dan: Now when did you come to Binghamton, Slam? Slam: I came to Binghamton about 10 years ago. Dan: 10 years ago. Slam: Yeah. Dan: And for what reason? Slam: Well on account of the young lady whom I'm married to. Dan: Well that's about as good a reason as I can think of. (laughter) Slam: Yes indeed and I find it has been my most happy experience in life. Has been wonderful and very good to me all the way around. Dan: Yeah, well it's the—your life has been very rewarding—there’s a lot of memories and everything but you're on the go all the time. Slam: Well yes like I say not as much as I used to I— Dan: Not now but I mean in your prime you were pretty busy. Slam: Oh yes, I had been very busy, which I didn't mind at all you know. Dan: No, no, when you're younger why you can take it. Slam: That's for sure. Mrs. Stewart: Ah Marge Hinman was surprised—remember when you did the historic architecture—this house is in it. Dan: This house is in it? Mrs. Stewart: In the Broome County ah Historical Societies Architecture. Dan : Oh it is. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah and she said she was so shocked when she found out that Slam and I owned it. Dan: Oh is that right. There’s another gentleman, I’m going to Friday to Windsor, another gentleman, his name is English and his house is in the—that same book. Mrs. Stewart: Umhm. Dan: That house was built in 1823 and it also served as an underground railroad station. Slam: Oh yes. Mrs. Stewart: This is 1870. Dan: 1870, uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: And it's all ours. Dan: That’s wonderful. Slam: It's all ours. Dan: Well that’s great, that's great. So anyway you went to High School and you went to the Boston Conservatory of Music. Slam: That's right. Dan: And that’s where you took up the bass viol and, ah, specialized and from there on expanded. Slam: Ah. Dan: Have you been in England? Slam: I've been in England, yes. Dan: Have you played before the Queen of England? Slam: No I— Mrs. Stewart: Played at Royal Albert Hall though. Slam: Royal Albert Hall there and she may have been there during one of our performances there. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Oh I’ve been quite a few places, ah, Italy and Spain, Germany, Finland. Mrs. Stewart: Sweden. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Now is this a tour that you took yourself Slam? Slam: No I— Dan: A tour or was that mapped out for you? Slam: It was mapped out for us—in fact I was with Goodman on quite a few of them. Dan: I see. Slam: Ah tours when I played. I've been to France quite a few times on my own, ah I've done, ah, quite a bit of recording there in France, in fact I was, ah, part, I played part of, ah, background music for a picture or two that were made in, ah, France. Dan: I see—now have you done any more composing at all? Slam: Well not, ah really, no I haven't—I'm thinking very seriously about, ah, taking it a little more easier than I'm doing now and just do some ah some more composing—the Wife and I. Dan: Yeah. Slam: You know I think— Mrs. Stewart: He has a published book though… Slam: I have a book on, ah, bass. Dan: Oh, you have published a book on bass? Slam: The Technique on Bass. Dan: Is that right—when was that published? Slam: Oh that was published back in the ’40s. Dan: 1940s, yeah. Are you a musician too, Mrs. Stewart? Mrs. Stewart: Yes. Slam: Yes she is. Dan: That's wonderful. Slam: Plays a wonderful, ah, piano. Dan: Well that's great—you've got a lot in common. Slam: We've done quite a few things together. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Schools and what have you—in this area too. Mrs. Stewart: I play as little as I can get away with, Dan. Dan: (laughter) Mrs. Stewart: I think maybe if you read his biography in Who’s Who—it might help you. Who's Who in America—I have it right here. Dan: Ah he's been in Who's Who in America? Mrs. Stewart: He is in it and now he's in the next edition—they just sent me a copy of it. Slam: Well yes. Dan: It must make you very proud, Slam. Slam: Oh thank you. Dan: Honest to God it's remarkable. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's played major countries all over the world. Dan: Blessed to have a community like this to have such famous men. Slam: Ah it's wonderful. Mrs. Stewart: He goes out and plays and he's been every country all over the world he's played and he'll come home and I’ll say “How”—you know there's nothing out there—it’s all here. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Were you in service at all, Slam? Slam: No I didn’t make the, ah, service. Dan: Uh huh—well you kept yourself busy, though. Slam: Yes. Dan: Now do you belong to any organizations or anything like that? Slam: Well yes, ah, at the time, I belonged to the Sertoma organization here and outside of that ah— Mrs. Stewart: You’re a member of Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church. Slam: Yes. Dan: Oh you are—Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church? Slam: Yes. Dan: Is that here in Binghamton? Slam: In Endicott. Dan: Oh, it's in Endicott. Slam: Yes. Dan: Yeah—one of our girls belongs to that same church. Slam: Uh yeah. Dan: Yeah—well is there anything else you would like to tell me, Slam, before I turn off this machine? Mrs. Stewart: He has two fellowships—he has one from Newing here and one from— Dan: I think he's being very shy about his accomplishments. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah I always had— Dan: Now he's got these fellowships from where? Mrs. Stewart: He has from Newing College here at the University and he has one from the Yale University. Dan: Yale? Mrs. Stewart: Yeah, we just came back from Yale—he goes back all the time. We've just gotten back last Saturday in fact another beautiful session. He’s very involved in Yale University. Dan: Uh huh, well that's great. Mrs. Stewart: I saw him last week performing with the students and it was— Dan: I suppose you get quite a few requests from the students over at the University to perform. Slam: Oh yes, I have. Mrs. Stewart: You know it's funny—the young students decided themselves, with no help, that they wanted to play their Prom this year. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And he's going to Charleston to play this Filado Festival and that was the same date and about 3 days after they decided they could, I got a call from our University saying their students had decided the same thing. Yeah. Dan: Well you can’t be two places at the same time. Slam: That's right. Mrs. Stewart: No he couldn't be at either one of them, which was sad, because he would have liked to have done this, you know—but he was really thrilled that the kids came up with the idea themselves. Dan: Well I certainly appreciate this interview, Slam. Slam: Oh that's all right. I wish I could remember some more things. Dan: Well with all the places you've been, it's remarkable that you remember what you did. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's probably been to Europe twenty times. Slam: Oh sure. Mrs. Stewart: Closest he's been to Binghamton to Europe. Dan: Twenty times just since he's been here—that's in the last 10 years. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah. Dan: And that's not counting the number of times he's been to Europe. Mrs. Stewart: Before. Dan: Before. Mrs. Stewart: Since he began going in the ’40s. Slam: That's right, sure. Dan: Well that's great. Well I’ll ah turn this off and play it back for you if you like, Slam. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Subject The topic of the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Description An account of the resource Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart, born in Englewood, NJ, describes his young life and education. He studied the  bass violin in high school and after graduation attended the <a href="https://www.bostonconservatory.edu/">Boston Conservatory of Music</a>. He details his professional career, teaming up with <a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301254/">Slim Gaillard</a>, <a href="http://www.npr.org/programs/jazzprofiles/archive/tatum.html">Art Tatum</a>, and later Earl Garner to become "the Slam Stewart Trio." He went on to join the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Goodman">Benny Goodman Sextet</a>, traveling all over the world, developing a distinct style of playing and eventually publishing a book, The Techniques of Bass. He speaks about his big-hit composition "Flat Foot Floogie," which received a gold record and was buried in a time capsule at the World's Fair in New York in 1939. He also describes his numerous recordings and his work in film. He mentions his fellowships with SUNY Binghamton and <a href="http://www.yale.edu%20">Yale University.</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 58 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:14 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2e518e208d685ab02bf32ae0ed51a5a6.mp3 4ee989a8bf59c3494103a5622d242387 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tedeschi, Frank J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-01-31 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:52 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56036">Interview with Frank J. Tedeschi</a> Subject LCSH Tedeschi, Frank J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Grocers -- Interviews; Italians; Politics Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Frank J. Tedeschi Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 31 January 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Frank J. Tedeschi of 327 Hill Ave., Endicott, NY on Jan. 31, 1978. Well, Frank, will you start with some of the recollections when your mother and dad came from Italy and reasons for coming for coming here? Frank: Ok, my dad, Joseph, came from Albrobello which is the province of body Italy back in 1908—back to New York City, of course, and went to a small community called West Winfield, near Utica, New York. And there upon hearing about the Endicott Johnson factories there, they came to Endicott where he got a job in Endicott Johnson in the early 1900s. Prior to that, he married my mother who had come from Italy about one year after he did and they had their first child in West Winfield near Utica, my sister, Florence. She was approximately year old when they moved to Endicott. After being in EJ for number of years they opened up their first business on front of Oak Hill Ave. and at that time was called Green St. which is now known as Watson Blvd in 1907 er—1917. From there they moved to Odell Ave, 215 Odell Ave., had a store there and then they bought the property where it stands now—corner of Odell Ave. and Watson Blvd. 101 Odell Ave, that was back in 1919, has been there ever since. My dad had his trial and tribulations same as any immigrant at that time—not knowing the language—and few miss and miss—some of them stories being kind of in the rough—awful time can't get started in this country. The family grew, they grew with the business, of course. In 1946 he retired. At that time I took over with my sister, Florence as a partner. He was a partner, also, but he was an inactive partner, he is what you call today a silent partner in the business. Now I can stop there—you want something else— Nettie: Now, tell us what you said about trial and tribulations—some of trials he had when he first came to Endicott Johnson, here in Endicott. Frank: Of course, not knowing the language they were picked on by some of the colleagues called the big Irish people at that time. They picked on the Italians, Poles, Russians, Slavs and they used them as a kicking stick, you might say, for doing all the dirty jobs and got credit for them. He had three or four different jobs and finally decided he'd go into business for himself. One particular instance, he said he was going to bite one of the fellow's nose off, because he bugged him so much, he wasn't going to get violent to the degree where he was going to hurt him physically just to bite his nose. One particular instance. Just that time were many instances but I can't remember all of them, of course, it's hard to say. Meanwhile, he started a business, kind of hard for him he didn't know the language very sparingly at that time. Most of the people on the North Side were either from the Italian extraction, Slavish [Slavic], Polish or Greek. He got so he could speak a little of each language he picked up as he went along—having got by. He raised a family of ten kids—5 boys and 5 girls. I'm the oldest of the boys and the other brother of mine is in business also, in Vestal Center, my brother Marty. The time he retired he wasn't feeling too well, that's the reason why he got out of the business. He liked the business, he enjoyed meeting the people, talking to the people. And it's a pity that sometimes people don't appreciate what you do for them especially when they're in business because many many people took advantage of them. The details, of course, are too long and complicated to go into now, something like that. [to wife] —want to talk? (laughing). Nettie: You are doing well— Frank: Now since my sister and I took over the business in 1946, of course, the old time type of business we changed to a degree because my dad opened the store 7 o'clock every morning—closed at 9 o'clock at night—closed Friday night at midnight—closed Saturday at midnight—Sunday up to 1 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon. When we took over we closed early—we closed Sundays and holidays. We don't have that type of business. We feel it's not worthwhile sacrificing life. They had the business, they enjoyed it they worked, they enjoyed taking care of the people they knew as friends. Now our type of business today is also different what it was years ago, where it was strictly Italian, of course, now we take care of to specialities—to groups of people like Greek, Armenian, Lebanese, all types of people, Chinese, Italian, English— Nettie: Frank, can I interrupt right now? I know that's the thing I found interesting when I was in your store—I noticed you had so many different things in your store—I looked all over for a special kind of wheat and I found it in your store? What other things do you have in your store that the Armenians, Greek—specialty kind of things? Frank: The kind of wheat, I believe you wanted, was cracked wheat—called bulgur—OK—then we have buckwheat groats, also which for the Russian, Polish people, Slavic people, which not many people handling it in the area. Some of the other items that the Lebanese use is—mixture called—falafel which is a mixture of ground fava beans and spices—then there's the—tahini which is ground sesame oil and then there's the Greek shortening—called minerva—funny name for it—Greek shortening—came from Greece—special wild onions called—volvoí packed in oil and vinegar is Greek. For the Lebanese, also, we have the Lebanese spices called—mahaleb and za’atar—two special spices they’re always looking for. And pine nuts, of course, are the Greek and Italian—of course, they are going international now—pignoli nuts come from Spain. Some of the other foods, of course, are Greek cheeses—and and the Lebanese cheeses—are special cheeses in themselves. The Greek cheese is packed in brine—some of them—Lebanese cheese are a basket cheese—Russian cheese used at Easter time—used to put in their baskets to be blessed—yeah—ok—some of the other items I, of course, imported Italian foods that we have—which hard to find—the St. John bread, we used to call—dried bananas at one time, carobs—we call—real name—are from Portugal—3 or 4 varieties of figs—Turkish figs, Greek figs, California figs—dried form or string form—then we have a variety of many other foods such as dried garbanzo lentils, things like that are dried legumes. Mrs. Tedeschi: Greek pastries too. Frank: Yeah, of course, the Greek pastry—which are the phyllo leaves from the prepared Greek pastry, which is called tiropita, spanakopita. We have the dessert, the sweet stuff, baklava which is very delicious. We also have a variety of Far Eastern breads—leavened breads which is called ma’arouk—then we have sesame bread which is flat leavened bread which is Lebanese and Armenian type of bread—then we have the folded dough—folded dough used for pizzas. These are some of the items we have. We have some others, of course. Nettie: Sounds interesting! I didn’t realize you had that many. Frank: We have all types of imported kind of candy, spumoni, terrone—we have chocolates. We have imported cherries and brandy, butter cakes which are called qatayef—brandy or rum. Nettie: I didn’t realize you had all that. Frank: We also carry a variety of porcelain goods such as demitasse cups and sets (demitasse) and we have large spaghetti bowls of all sizes, have different type vegetable strainers, meat choppers and sausage makers for home use. Nettie: What are some of your recollections of the Italian People? You know, some of the customs—that would be interesting— Frank: As far as the eating habits are concerned? Nettie: Well, eating habits, maybe some of your customs—holidays— Frank: Well your Christmas Eve customs in the Italian line are the fact they have to eat, or not have to—but the custom to eat 21 different types of food. In other words—mostly non-meat items, Christmas Eve. Usually they have 7 or 8 or 9 varieties of fish, cooked different ways, different kinds of vegetables, nuts, cheeses, different kinds of wines, beverages of all kinds, of course, to get loaded—have to have alkaseltzer (Laughing). Of course, the traditional Italian fish which is a dried codfish, baccalà which comes whole, which it comes boneless or skinless which has to be freshened soaked day or two, soaked 3-4 days with the bone in—then there's a Swedish stockfish, also is original Italian dish mostly for people from Calabria—lower Italy—Calabria, town which is on lower end of the boot of Italy, they eat that fish—it is very expensive this time of year—$6.50 a pound—that what they asked for two weeks ago. Nettie: Is it a salty fish? Frank: Very strong aroma—some people call disastrous—has a very distinct odor to it. Those all traditional—people fish—that they eat—want. Also, there are English pilchard, called—aringa—which is a smoked dry sardine which is also a traditional type of fish and the dry smoked herring—(put a jug of wine) after you eat a couple fish which you would be thirsty. Something, like the Russian people have their pickled salt herring - the Italian people have their dry smoked herring called aringa. Of course, the Italian spaghetti sauces, numerous different kinds of spaghetti sauces with the Italian seasonings and cheeses from Italy, called romano pecorino— Nettie: What was that? Frank: Romano pecorino—which mean—made from sheep's milk—pecorino means sheep's milk—pecora means, means “sheep” in Italian. Now the people in northern Italy which are the Piedmonti's people, citizens of northern Italy they use the parmigiano cheese—parmesano—is strictly from cow's milk. They don't like the sharp violent cheese—that cheese is mostly for white sauces and cream sauces—types of spaghetti—made from piselli—for example use butter, use parmesano cheese, but to make piselli fettuccelle use romano cheese. Nettie: Never heard of those—that sounds good—though— Frank: Different types. And of course we have the variety of Italian olives—some consider Italian, some consider Greek, we used to have them in barrels, now they come in plaster tubs, about 30-40 each—they have a flavor of their own, don't compare with the ripe olive different taste to them—there is a Sicilian type, there is a Greek type. Nettie: Is that right? I didn't realize that. Frank: There are varieties of olives—those we specialize in them, also. Now the other strictly Italian food that we find in our place which I don't believe, of course, the English and American people, well I haven't seen the Russian or Slovak person buy, that's cornmeal—used for cornmeal mush, polenta—that's called in Italian. Nettie: I think I had that in Spain. Frank: It is cooked and boiled down in water and you put a sauce over it, with homemade meatballs or homemade sausage—my wife eats the corn and I eat the sausage—but that's also a strictly Italian. In this country they used to make, you know, muffins or fritters, things like that. There's strictly polenta—which is cornmeal mush—made with rich tomato sauce. Others, are of course, you know is pasta and beans and pasta and lenticchie which is lentils, pasta and ceci ceci which is chick peas. Nettie: All kinds of foods, I imagine you are a cook from what you are talking about— Frank: You know, I give lot of women a lot of recipes—I never cooked any in all of my life. Nettie: Is that right? Frank: I know the ingredients are and how to cook them, because I've seen them cook in our house. Alright, what else should we talk about? Mrs. Tedeschi: About hospitality— Nettie: I would say—all these things—all this is interesting. Mrs. Tedeschi: —the way they were. Frank: The way they are—they are—still are—the foreign people, the people coming from Europe, we also are a nationality, are a lot more hospitable—than the people of this country are. Nettie: Yes, yes. Frank: You walk in a Italian home, or Slavic home or a Greek home and if they are eating dinner they will insist you sit down and eat with them, otherwise they would be insulted. If they don't have anything, middle of the afternoon, they will insist on putting on a pot of coffee, take out some cookies or cake or something. Nettie: It's very true. Frank: Those are things we find that the active people, the Italian people, the Slavic, the Polish people are very, very famous for. They are also, very persistent, asking you to sit and join them. Nettie: Yes, very much so. Mrs. Tedeschi: Yes, they are. Frank: You know the traditions we had in the past every once in a while, I think about it. They're forgotten. The younger generation don't know anything about it.  Nettie: That's what I'd like to have— Frank: OK—back years ago, now we’re having Palm Sunday coming and Easter Sunday with Lent, our parish priest, at that time, would go around on Palm Sunday and bless the homes with his holy water—along and his assistant and a altar boy carrying the holy container to bless the homes. That particular priest that we had here, used to stop, how he did it I don't know to this day, stop and eat everyplace he went. He usually would go around, you know, at meal times, you know at about twelve to one o'clock, everybody—sitting at the table—eat something for about five or ten minutes—then they would question him all over again—you could tell by looking at him he enjoyed it. Those are some of the traditions that are gone—we miss—and back, even days before television, before radio, before restaurants, and beer gardens we have today—it used to be more of a family affair— Nettie: It's true. Frank: Families used to get together and enjoy themselves—sit, talk, chat, eat and drink, play cards—that was really happy occasions to play cards when you bring a bottle of wine—the old fellows, us kids used to watch and we were chased off to bed. Nettie: True. Frank: But those are missing now, now everybody has got their own new world, they live in. Now I come home, as tonight, watch television for two or three hours and go to bed. That didn't happen before—before you would talk with the family, I'd visit my sister, my brother would visit me—I'd visit my dad—that type of thing—that's missing today. Nettie: That's too bad, too. Frank: Then the old feast days are gone—the atmosphere is gone like when they celebrate St. Joseph's or St. Anthony's or St. Cosmo’s one of those things, St. Mary's. They'd have their procession down the street. Saints, bands—5 o'clock in the morning they'd wake you up with their fireworks—ups! it's time to get started you know, then they get end up for the affair, they had at night, food, drink and everything else involved. Those are all gone. Those are what everybody misses. As I say, things have changed, the world is changing, the people changing. I like to keep those traditions—I find, right now, though in our area here especially, we've got quite an influx of immigrants that had stopped for a while—there was a period for anyone to come in—they stopped for a while—they had quotas as they were strict to have anyone come in but the last few years they lifted—ooh—we have about 50 families, have come. Nettie: ls that right? Frank: Between the Italians, Slavic and some of the Russians—not too many of them—not too many Russians—guess they're not letting them out. (Laughing) They're keeping them there. But there's quite a few coming in—so traditions will remain as long as these people keep coming in the European tradition—they'll bring them here. I'm glad to see that. Nettie: I do too—I really like to see that. It's nice to be able to enjoy those things. Frank: Well, are there any other recollections—I do remember the parades collecting and all that—it was very interesting—of course, in those days, too, if you remember—you weren’t old enough— Nettie: Gee—thanks— Frank: Back, years ago before refrigeration—remember that? Nettie: Oh, yes, I remember. Frank: Before the 30th—the ice boxes? We had to open up the store—my dad had, in those days, anyhow, at 6 o'clock in the morning—for the factory workers who stopped to buy their lunch meat to put between two slices of bread, so that it didn't spoil during the day. They picked their lunch in the morning—that's right—walk down the street—were no such thing as cars in those days—nobody owned cars—very few people own cars—we'd walk—see all the neighbors, talked to the women—they'd have the coffee klatsches at 6 in the morning—got their washing done at 5—everybody greeted each other, everybody knew everybody else. I don't know my next door neighbors are now. Things are entirely different. Things were a lot calmer in those days. Now anybody screams—WHO CARES! Nettie: That's right. Frank: Before if you heard somebody yelling, you asked, “What is going on here?” So the comradeship is gone like it used to be. Now, this is what made it more interesting—seeing your neighbors—go out back—talk to them—make it interesting—get together—backyard—then you invite other neighbor—then the neighbors came over—I remember holidays—you got out—pay a visit to everybody and then you get home, you are ¾ loaded. (Laughing). Everybody has to give you a drink—all those relations are gone. Nettie: Well, Frank, now we can go into your political life— Frank: Well, my political life started by a fluke—really—I had no intention of ever getting involved in politics until 1956. And then again one of the village board came up with—which I thought very, very asinine idea of making the North Side—one way streets. Part being in business and being the fact we had the Fire Dept. next to the business, and the fact that our streets were narrow, I thought there isn't enough traffic to warrant one way streets. The other solution was to be—widen the streets one at a time—two at a time whenever we could afford it. Then one of the trustees came up to me and told me I was stupid—I didn't know what was going on—they were going to push it—they were going to push the one way streets. So at that time, I was head of a group of North Side Businessmen—there were roughly about 40 involved—40 Businesses. I happen to be President of the group so we went to the board meeting made—enough commotion and fussed—they forgot about the one way streets. But, directly after that, one of the fellows came home and asked me if I wanted to run for trustee—they needed somebody on the board to make a little noise occasionally. I said I was really green in politics, you know what I mean but they said I shouldn't worry about that, “we will take care of you. We'll do things for you." OK—do things.  Nettie: If you can have some help. Frank: Right. Then I appreciated my being in the primaries, something of 60-65 votes. The following year I ran again and I was successful in being elected—I was in for 14 years. Nettie: Is that right? I didn't realize it was that long— Frank: In 1968—I asked my party to run for mayor—ran against astute politician Mr. Caldwell—and I was beaten and then I ran the following year again for trustee and was elected two or three times. After that I decided I had enough politics—during the years—my wife was home alone—she missed her dolly—her husband. (Laughing). So that is enough for politics - 14 years is enough for any person to be a service to the community. Nettie: That's a long time—of course it takes you away from home too—quite a bit. Frank: Yes, home and away from the business, I didn't mind it—it was interesting work and I was instrumental in some of the changes in Endicott—successful ones— Nettie: Like what? Frank: Well, I pioneered originally for the soot control— Nettie: What was that—sud control? Frank: Soot control—air pollution. We were successful in getting that cleaned up. Then the pressures involved in the buying of the airport, the sewage treatment plants and some of the major improvements in the village, village parks—North Side park—swimming pool—those were all under my regime. I'm not satisfied or very happy with my regime—we made some good roads—I think the village is a good place to live. Of course, right now I could find some fault with it—some of the spots not too good—I'm used to that part of it. We've always enjoyed living in the village. In fact, we originally lived next door—next door to the store—when we first got married—my wife and I—like in 1935—we lived on 107—right over top of the EJ shoe store—at that time—we had two bedrooms—after the third child we didn't have enough room so we bought a place in Endwell—home on Hoover Street. We didn't like it up there—we came back down to North Side. After two years we sold it and bought this property right here. We're very happy with the North Side—own type of people—Italian people, Slavic— Nettie: It's right—once you've grown with your own— Frank: It's hard to get away from. Ever since—we will be married 43 years this year. Nettie: Is that right? Oh my goodness— Frank: Yep—five kids—oldest boy will be 40 years old—he's in the Post Office—second boy is out of town in Saratoga, teaching school—third girl—teaching school down here—she's married with 1 ½ kids—other daughter works in Endicott Trust Co.—Binghamton branch—youngest son is in school, yet. Nettie: Gee, you have a fine family! Frank: Yes, five very nice children— Nettie: Years go by fast. Frank: Well, in a couple of years—if you know anybody who wants to buy a good business—we'll sell it to them—I've been in it for most of my life—that's been quite a few years—will retire— Nettie: Looking forward to retire? Frank: Take a trip to Rotebella, maybe and see where our folks came from—where our roots began—OK. Nettie: That sounds interesting—Frank, do you have any more recollections that you would like to add to that? It’s very interesting—am really listening with awe. Frank: Really all I could say. Nettie: Well, this has been very enjoyable—and I want to thank you very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Frank J. Tedeschi Subject The topic of the resource Tedeschi, Frank J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Endicott (N.Y.); Grocers -- Interviews Description An account of the resource Frank Tedeschi speaks about his upbringing in Endicott, NY and later works as a local grocer, inheriting the business from his father. He describes the various types of exotic and imported foods sold at the grocery. He details traditions and recollections from Italian people, as well as, his political experiences on the Village of Endicott Board of Trustees. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 59 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0679fd5183c56f0e3a93eaff7f9bf3e9.mp3 52e24382258e130cb44e03fd7faa8c0a https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/87ef3c21a573d0ab7b2fef20f461b624.mp3 aa9b63d384f73252bca20899177233b2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d883ca1daa761ad52df58c07cb695190.mp3 effebd5b659aa58b01be01c9a9279639 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Titchner, Dorothy Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:54 Minutes ; 11: 28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56042">Interview with Dorothy Titchener</a> Subject LCSH Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. 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Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dorothy Titchener Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 15 March 1978 [Tape #1] Dan: Mrs. Titchener, will you tell me about your life and working experiences in the community starting with your place of birth? Mrs. Titchener: Well I was born, I do remember that and I had to look up ah I didn’t have to look up when because I’m 80 years old and that was a shock to me—I couldn’t believe it. I was born in Washington, D.C. in 1897, Washington, D.C., and ah my father was the 2nd cousin of ah Mark Twain—Samuel Clemens and so I presume I would be 3rd cousin because his mother, Mark Twain’s mother, was a Jane Lampton and that was my maiden name was Lampton. In England, they came from England, and it was spelled Lambton but with the nasal quality of the American voice why it was translated to Lampton. I went to school in Washington, D.C., a French school, and I majored in French and Dramatics and Writing. It had started in kindergarten—marched down and informed them that I was coming to school because it was on the street where I was born and the later went to ah Bennett Junior College for 2 years and graduated from there and I studied Drama under Charles M. Kennedy and ah Edith M. Mathewson. They were old time ah artists in that field and I was offered a part in The Blue Bird ah Betrothal which was a sequel to The Blue Bird really really to offer, whereupon my mother snatched me back to Washington. I’m very glad she did because I never would have met my husband Paul, who was in the Army then and came to Washington and it was there I met him and I have 3 children—James, my son is a psychiatrist and he is attached to the University of Cincinnati and he is a research psychiatrist and also he is lately by the Government—he’s a Fellow which is supposed to be as high as he can go. I know he gets $1000.00 every time he opens his mouth and I get $1000.00 if I shut mine, I think—I guess the general feeling of my family but anyway he’s done very very well and he was a rather shy child and I’m sorry that Paul didn’t know how famous he has become. He’s traveled all over the world because he is the head member of the disaster group and what they do is to go around and try to improve people’s morale when these terrible disasters happen, such as mine disasters and this horrible fire in Kentucky nightclub and so forth, and I have a daughter, Ann, and she is head of one ah private school in Maryland and was one of the first integrated schools in Maryland—she’s just recently become—she worked there as a teacher and they have a great many, ah, both Black and white students and teachers. It’s completely integrated and they say that any child can take any kind of course. They will offer anything the child needs or wants and so she has many of the Congressional children in the school. They bus them in—it’s outside in near her home in Maryland, and then I have a second daughter, Jean, and she lives in Salt Lake City and she works considerably in civic affairs there in Salt Lake and also she teaches in a Presbyterian kindergarten school both morning and afternoon with children. She perhaps is more like me. Ann is like her father—Ann has a good business head and I should say after Jean, is more like me. Well that about wraps up my family—oh I have eleven grandchildren—mustn’t forget all those and they’re ah they’re all—I only have one married—one girl married and ah this is kind of interesting because she was ah a very independent person and I’m very fond of her and they’ve decided, she married a man in the forestry service and they are now living in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, in a summer cabin 5 miles from Bonners Ferry with no utilities whatsoever, not even water and they think it’s wonderful and they’re trying to buy 20 acres of land there and grow all their own food and then she’s going to be ah she’s studying her biology and she’s going to be a doctor and heal everybody with herbs and she grinds all her own food. Now she was a girl who was brought up on New York City—her family moved to Salt Lake and then I have another daughter in New York, granddaughter who’s trying to go on the stage and naturally that’s a very difficult field to enter. I’ve tried to persuade her to do radio or something else and creep in but No she’s decided that’s what she wanted to do so that’s about, that takes care of the family, I guess. Now ah you asked me about different clubs I belong to. I had to list them because I couldn’t remember what I did belong to—what I didn’t. Some I think I just went and some I belonged to—anyway I belong to Monday Afternoon Club, the Civic Club, Shakespeare Club—this is local, the League of Women Voters—now that I had trouble with because they study everything and I’m a person of action because if somebody tells me I can’t do it—that’s the one thing I do. In, in civic work, I can’t wait for them to mess around with the red tape and so on and so I had trouble with them because they sent me out to do some speaking for a certain proposition that they wished to have the people know about and I thought I was supposed to get them to ah pass it. So I came back jubilantly to tell them that these three places I’d been had all voted on it and agreed to do it, whereupon ah they almost invited me out of the organization, because they were supposed to study it two more years or something. I think they’re one of the best clubs in the city, I really do, and think they do a great deal of good. It simply was not my nature to go along that way—I’m not criticizing them in any way. I belong to the American Civic Association, I’m an Honorary member of Zonta, I belong to the Business and Professional Women’s Club, where I have been very active and the Junior League, the Girl’s Club, the YMCA—I was on the Board of that, then the Children’s Services Society and the Girl Scouts Council and the Housing Authority ah for 20 years and ah I’m going into detail but these are the main and I was the first, one of the first, for three years the first organizing group of Opportunities for Broome, when it was first organized, I was on that Board, so I think that takes care of that part. Well now I have something that I say, this was personal and I think I’ll take that for last because I would like to go into what I have done, special events that I have done and I have to start probably with the Junior League because that’s the first organization I joined when I came here and we were—I was never President of the Junior League but I was on the Board because I was always ah was theater chairman and I wrote ah children’s plays and acting in it and then I directed several children’s plays that we had and then I think one of the most exciting things we did was we wanted to raise some money, when we took over the ah day nursery as a project. As you know, the Junior League is an all volunteer work and we took this over as a project. We wanted to raise some money to do some good work there and really improve their facilities—so we ah I suggested we take the Binghamton Press for one evening and ah sell the papers and do all the advertising and get the money from the advertising and so forth and I was editor of it and then with other members of the League, we did and we sold the papers on the street and Jim Farley happened to be in town that day and I sold him one for $10.00 and I said, “You mean your boss isn’t worth more than that?” but anyway he gave us $10.00 and we raised about $1500.00 to $2000.00 and incidentally, we paid the newsboys their regular fee—we didn’t cut them out of the money they received that day—so we did that for two years and I went down to Washington where I—because I knew more people still in Washington—I know many of the older ones now—the new ones I don’t know very well, but I did know because my father was interested in politics and really enjoyed it—he never was a politician—he was a sort of a politician at home but he wasn’t in politics but he loved them. So I got in to see President Franklin Roosevelt and he gave me a perfectly beautiful letter congratulating the Junior League on doing this which of course made the front pages of the Binghamton Press and the second year we did it, we couldn’t go back to him again so we went to Governor Lehman, he was Governor of New York State and we had a letter similar to the one ah Franklin Roosevelt wrote and so that enhanced the sale of the papers of course. These two letters were very important and we did make around $2000.00-$2500.00 each time. $1500.00 first and then money kept coming in and we did as I said get all the money from the advertising we solicited—so that was quite successful. So that was one thing in Junior League that had not in—also I, I like to add that several plays and I went to many conferences with this Junior League and I enjoyed it thoroughly and I won the first ah Silver Cup that Esther Couper, Mrs. Edward Couper, was then President of the Club but her mother gave a Silver Bowl—not a cup, it was a bowl—and it was given to the person who had done the most for the League in that year. I think probably Esther should have had it but because it was her mother’s cup, I fortunately won it and it’s still in existence and people are still winning it year after year. I think that it has so many names on it I thought they ought to give me the old one because I was the first but they didn’t do that. They bought another bowl and they’re going on with it so that was that and then let’s see, I think the next thing that I did was Scouting—that was really coincidental with the ah Junior League because I hadn’t been in town more than a month when Paul and I were both put on the ah Council—the Girl Scout Council and ah it seems that they needed a Commissioner, they called the President a Commissioner and ah so they appointed me—elected me I guess it was, about the month after I went on the Board so that was fun because I had always—I love the out of doors. I’ve been to girl’s camp, I taught dancing and was always for the outdoor things—hiking, swimming, and I loved the out of doors, so I liked Girl Scouting and I forced my two girls to naturally to go in. But they were trying to find a camp and they had been trying for 10 years to find a site. So one Sunday, Paul and I said, “Let’s go out and buy a camp”—so without telling anyone, we went out, we took a flat iron—we heard there was a little lake off out of Deposit in the hills there and we trudged up there and ah sure enough there was a lake and so we had an old leaky rowboat sitting there by the dock—we got in it and rode out and dumped this iron in—it went down so we said, “This is a beautiful lake, just beautiful, we’ll buy it,” so we went down to Deposit, found out who owned it and put a deposit on it, personal, and then came back and told the Council that we had bought this lake and it was perfectly beautiful. We built it up to the point where they couldn’t say it wasn’t. It was a very nice camp and they since enlarged it and to name it we ah both first how, how to build the thing, we had a cocktail party and we had it 3 days before the big blowup in the ah stock market and so we told everyone if they would give us $500.00 for a cabin, their names would go on the cabin and we raised $29,000.00 at that cocktail party and it was 3 days after that, that we took all their checks to the bank and they were all broke—not really but I mean everybody lost money as you know—so that’s the way we built the camp and then later they had enlarged it and they’ve done wonders with it—it’s beautiful. Dan: What was the name of it? Mrs. Titchener: We named it Amahami and this was funny too. Ah, Charles Curtis was Vice President of the United States and he was part Indian, so I wrote him a letter and asked him to sent us some Indian names—he was to come up the night we actually named it but he couldn’t make it, however we selected Amahami—much to my sorrow—because they always called it “I’M a mommy” and blamed it on me but anyway that’s just one of—it isn’t very and I, this is ah sort of an offshoot—the other night I spoke at the Business and Professional Women’s Club about past things and this very young looking girl steps up to the rostrum and she’s making a plea for the Girl Scouts and she said, “I don’t suppose any of you know much about them,” and I’m sitting next to her and I poked her and said, “Well I was Commissioner for 7 years,” then later she goes on to say, “Well at Carlisle Housing Project, sometimes the girls can’t pay their registration,” and so again I, she said, “I know none of you here probably know much about what Carlisle is—it’s a Public Housing Project.” I said, “Well I only ran it for 20 years, but that’s all—here’s 2 bucks for a kid for Carlisle,” but that has nothing to do with the work but anyway it was funny after all these years—of course she’s very young—she never heard of me. Anyway I was commissioner for 7 years and then I retired from that. Well then I guess the next thing that I did was to get into ah I didn’t from housing to that did I, Yes I guess I did. I think I was—I didn’t know there was such a thing as public housing in Binghamton—had no idea there was but all of a sudden one day the telephone rang and it was ah Mayor Kramer and he said, “Would I come on the ah Housing Authority as a member?” and I said, “What is it?” He said, “Well we have these housing projects and I’ll take you around and show them to you,” and I said, “Well I’ll come on,” so I came on and ah soon as I, again I always seem to fall under these things without anybody’s knowledge or desire but anyway all of a sudden they had no head of the housing, no commissioner there for head of the housing, so all of a sudden they had this meeting and Paul was sitting there and he said, “I don’t want Dorothy to do this”—they had both men and women on the council then. All right, all of a sudden I’m elected and I’m chairman of the Housing Authority. Well I think that was probably the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me because I loved it, I just loved it and they had just the two then—they had Saratoga Terrace which is on the south side and they had Carlisle which was at the East end. Dan: Moeller Street? Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, Moeller Street. Anyway, I went to a meeting at the—I was taken up there and looked at the place—it looks like a college campus because it’s quite pretty—it was and so I go. I come to this meeting and I had told everyone that I was to meet them all so please, if they could get off from work, I’d like to meet the men as well as the women, well come. Well the place was jammed. So I stand up there and I said, “I’ve come to give you some news,” and from the back of the room, rose this great burly guy and he said, “Who the blank do you think you are?” and I said, “Well that’s a good question and maybe I came here to find out.” Well that sort of settled them down. What I really came to tell them was, it seems that they had a painting cycle of the apartments every 3 years and they went down the north side in yellow and the south side in green—period. And I thought that was horrible because any woman who has a home, reacts to color and it isn’t theirs unless they can have what they want. So I had arranged with the State Division of Housing, that is the State operated ah housing—the Saratoga Terrace is and I had arranged with them early to try this—of picking out the number bedrooms and the number of colors they wanted from a chart that happened to be pastel colors and they said I was crazy but finally they agreed with me I could do it. So I told them I had come to really announce that—that they could but I had 3 weeks to get in all their colors—all of their choices and they couldn’t change them once they started because I would order X number of blue, be all of this stuff you see. So they came and in less than 4 days every member there—there were 254 apartments and everybody had come and picked out in 4 days the colors they wanted and the Division, New York State Division was just astounded and the painter said it was, it was the easiest job he ever had. Once in a while he got chicken and he did change some of the colors—well because he had some but that made a great difference. Well then I, well then I found myself an interior decorator because they all came and said, “Well look, ah, Mrs. Titchener, now we don’t know, we have this and that then we put this new color on, would you help us, we can get some.” So I went to the different stores and got bolts of material—I got somebody who knew how to sew, to come up and help them and we had meetings at night and they made new curtains and they made and they covered their furniture and they went at it in a big way and the material was all donated by various stores—bolts of material, not expensive but nice and clean. So the place really did look just beautiful and they were—well, from there on I had them, you know what I mean because I had been, I had done something unusual for them. Dan: You gained their confidence. Mrs. Titchener: Yes and I gained their confidence, and so there I was right on top of the heap and I really loved it and it was funny because it was the first time in my life I had seen like 50 kids all the same age playing together. We did put a little fountain in the front yard in memory of one of the ah managers who had died and when we put that in—it ran water, you know—constantly over and over the same and little Catholic children all came out and blessed themselves with it. It was a real cute little fountain but they, they didn’t pull up—we planted ah flowers, we had flower boxes and they didn’t pull them up, they really didn’t and we had a baseball team and we had it in our front yard because it was the only place we had that was level enough to have a field and we couldn’t buy them uniforms or anything and, ah, it was ah, I think Rockefeller when he was Governor, Nelson Rockefeller came down and came to visit it and he played ball with them and so instead of asking for his autograph, we gave him an autographed baseball of our team, which was a switch and they were thrilled with that and they were very excited and a very nice thing happened then. He went for coffee at a house, one of the apartments, a very nice girl and she had a child who had a growth on his eye and ah Nelson Rockefeller looked at it and he said, “I think that should be attended to.” She said, “Well I don’t know who to go to,” and he said, “Well I do and I’ll arrange for you to come up to Albany and see this man.” Well the child had a malignant growth there and it was removed and he was fine. So I like to tell that because it was such a nice thing for him to do and ah he noticed things like that. Well then also ah I think that, that’s about the only time he ever visited but we did many many things for them. We had art classes, we had dances, we had teas and when Jim Gaynor was then head of New York State Housing and he came up—we had a tea—and everybody was very much dressed up and I asked them please to wear their best clothes to serve the tea in the afternoon and I took all my stuff over—I had silver and napkins and lace cloth and all of my stuff and I lugged it over there. We fixed the place all up and we have a nice recreation room there, very nice, large and really very nice, so he said to me afterwards he said, “Who are all these girls, are they Junior League girls?” so I thought that was a nice compliment. We also had people come—Tony’s Hair Parlor, they came once in a while to show them how to do their hair and improve their looks, how to wash it. We had people come it—one thing that was very difficult when they went over, became over income and had to move—they would go out and get some well I would say fly-by-night realtor, someone who wasn’t expensive and he would just take all their money and end up it wasn’t what they wanted and then they’d lose it and then by that time, the place was full and they couldn’t come back. So we did start this, ah, evening course and we asked the Real Estate Board to send different people—I couldn’t pick out one realtor but they would come and give them some advice and then where they could get someone who would not mishandle them and it would be satisfactory. We had a banker come to teach them how to ah take care of their money—in fact one ah little girl who was married very young and her mother came and she brought all her monthly money in little packages. This was for this and this was for that and I was to give them out to her. Incidentally, I want to make it crystal clear that in the 20 years that I worked for Housing, I never was paid one solitary cent except for traveling that I did at their bequest and no one would believe that because I took the role of the Executive Director at many times and most of the time and I had ah that gave me a wonderful weapon because I could go to both the State and Federal Divisions and march in and say, “Now you owe me about $15,000 now and I’d like to put storm windows on,” or I’d like to fix this up and then I really had Mr. Gaynor blow a show when ah I asked was going to put—oh we built the second edition but that was the first thing that I had anything to do with the building and that was Saratoga Heights and ah up there we have, that’s up built on a hillside and I had to first I went to all this elderly groups here in town to say whether they, that we had one small group for the elderly, whether they would like to look at the parking lot or the beautiful view down the valley of the River. Well they chose the parking lot to have their, the community. They wanted to see what’s going on so that’s the way we built it but we did put a little garden that was walled off, not walled but had a fence around it and we had a greenhouse and Jim Gaynor said to me, “Dorothy, that greenhouse will not have a window in it 3 days from the day you put it up.” Well for 6 years, it was filled with flowers—we had one broken window by the wind—and it seemed that all the tenants used it. They came down—the elderly ran it and they’d come down and bring their plants they got for Christmas and that would be nice and they would put them in there and we went to all the greenhouses around in town and they have us seeds and plants and things and they were smart enough to go to all the funeral homes, because most of them used geraniums all through the summer and they’d go and get them and cut them and have slips and they had enough geraniums to cover their place and all three places, Carlisle and Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights—so that was very successful. I understand now that’s not in use but I don’t go there now. After I retired I just leave—I don’t want to talk about it at all. I mean I, I don’t feel I should say anything because people would simply comment that I was being bitter or something. Dan: What years were you— Mrs. Titchener: Well I was there in 1939 and 20 years, what would that be 20? Dan: ‘59. Mrs. Titchener: 30. Dan: ‘39 to ‘59 would be 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: ‘39 to, oh no no, I didn’t go in ‘39, what’s the matter with me—that’s when I ah yes it was, that’s when I was on the radio, I’m sorry. No I’m sorry that’s a mistake—I don’t know when I did go. Dan: When did you retire? We’ll go back 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: Well I went down, retired in ‘74. Dan: ‘74. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ok, so that would be ‘54. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, that’s better, that’s better, thank you. You can see I’m very good in arithmetic. No, 39, I, I had my profession with the very end what I did to make money—well that was really a great thing. Another thing they offered the Authority—we had 5 members—I had a marvelous Authority—there were 5 of us on it, including me and the State offered us ah, ah I think it was $1500 a year, if we wished, for traveling expenses and we turned it down every year because we felt that this was too good. People would want to come in to make that $1500. It would mean something to them and we refused it, although there were a couple of members on our authority who could well have used that money and I always felt they were so brave and fine not to take it because we felt it put us in a different category and this way we could say we are volunteering this—we were giving out time and energy. Another thing, it was a little difficult to run, in this respect, the people whom we hired could not make the going rate because we couldn’t afford to because our rentals were based on the person’s income and it wasn’t great I can tell you that, so we had to give them extra—I used to call them “bingebellet benefits” because we would let—we would close the office and all go to a party and go out for lunch and things like that and in some ways we were a very cohesive group and ah worked well together that way and it, a Bill Johnson, when he was the Master of Ceremonies when I retired and I always remember what he said—he said, “Dorothy would, her her opinion was—let’s do what we want to do, then tell them afterwards.” That’s about the way we did. We went on to, when we built the ah—the next thing we built after the Heights was the ah housing for the elderly on Exchange Street—the two high rise and I didn’t want them named because I though, I think that’s what some owner’s people know—Carlisle Hill you know instantly that’s public housing, I said, “Why shouldn’t they have an address just like I do?” Like Exchange Street and Isbell Street a number is the number of your apartment. So, after much consideration, I knew Ken McKenzie who has since died—he was on the authority and he said, “Well ah let’s call it the Senile Silo”—so we had a lot of bright ideas like that. Well we hired a man from New York because nobody had built high rise here—we had architects local for the other buildings but here no one had built high rises at that time. So ah a high rise built for ah one of the housing divisions was different from building it privately because you are, actually it is much better built than this building for instance because of the regulations and all the things that are there to help them—it’s very well built. Well anyway we had someone from and incidentally that was the day that we hired the contractor, the ah the ah architect I mean, for building of the high rise—it was a luncheon and ah that was the day my husband died that afternoon, very suddenly. Dan: What year was that Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Well when did he—don’t ask me dates like that—he died—he’s been dead 14 years. Dan: 14 years. Mrs. Titchener: February, 14 years this February so you can subtract that again. I flunked arithmetic, maybe you guessed that already. Dan: Well that’s all right— Mrs. Titchener: I’ll tell you 2 and 2 don’t make 4, especially if you have guinea pigs. Dan: For anyone who flunked arithmetic, you’ve certainly been successful. Mrs. Titchener: Well I ran, I often say that ah people didn’t realize what they were getting into because I ran about a 4, 5 or 6 million business you know with the total. Now I have something here that I’m going to read from because it does give you a really meaning account of what, what the public housing is and what I said about it and if you don’t mind I’m going to read it because I could go off on a tangent but this is when I went in ah took over the ah money raising for PAL and I didn’t really like that. I like PAL but I had nothing to say in that—it was all Tony Ruffo—wouldn’t—he ran it really. They used my name is what they did and any ideas they had why and unless I can—I’m not an artist but I’ve created, I have ideas and I put them through and I won’t I don’t stop until I finish them and this he didn’t like I think and so I didn’t enjoy that because and another thing I didn’t enjoy was that he went to the newspaper and he got my Obit and printed it—had it printed. It didn’t say I was dead but it did leave that off but the rest of it was pretty and this is what was taken from that really but it’s ah—I had many experiences in housing that were very exciting and very different. Incidentally ah once I ah was sitting there and ah we had an Executive Director there at that time, a woman and she was very good and I was sitting there when ah this Black man came in and he said he’d seen in the paper a Black woman had died there and he wanted that apartment and ah she very kindly told him that we had a waiting list and you had to put your name down and the gentleman that he brought in was very very inebriated—he was holding him up—so he finally looked at me and he said, “Oh I know who you are,” and I had a Cadillac at that time and he said, “I’m going to burn your Cadillac if you don’t give this gentleman this apartment,” and I called him by name and I said, I’ll say Joe but it wasn’t, I said, “Joe, go ahead,” and I flipped him some matches I said, “It’s right outside the door here and here’s the matches.” He disappeared with the gentleman immediately. That was one thing that happened and another night we had a meeting at Saratoga and I had two men there and we had tenants meetings once a month to make it—tell all their grievances and we had the various ones try and answer them and help them out and so forth and we had ah, ah, I had a word from the Society, oh, what do you call it? Ah, dope. What do you call ‘em—have names, I can’t think anyway. Dan: Narcotics. Mrs. Titchener: Narcotics—that’s what I’m trying, that’s the word I’m trying to think of, anyway the head of the Narcotics Division here called me and said he understood there was an apartment there that they were dispensing it and they didn’t know exactly where it was and asked me to try and find out. Well I had a suspicion so I did find out and they later proclaimed that that was right and the sister of this woman who lived in this apartment knew that I had found out and she came blazing in and her eyes were very red. She pulled a switchblade on me but fortunately it was across a card table—it was like that (referring to table in apartment) and it just got within about 3 inches and everybody ran out, we had elderly there, they all moved out when I said, “Please leave, just leave and be quiet,” and I turned to this woman, whom I liked very much and still do—I like her very much but she was really high on something, what, I do not know—could have been alcohol, could have been drugs—I don’t know that but she was high anyway so I got out of that all right but when I walked out of that room, she was still behind me and I can tell you right now, I felt that blade between my shoulder blades all the way to the door but the men, they disappeared, everybody disappeared but I’ve seen her lately and she’s a very fine woman and she’s completely all right and I, she’s a very pretty—she’s a Black woman but very nice woman and has done a great deal for the community. So it was, those were some of the incidents. Oh and one other, back at Carlisle which is similar. Ah, I put a woman out who had lived there and they had been trying to get her out and nobody had the courage enough to do it and I did put her out. So she had some of her relatives and her friends call me and say that if I came to this meeting, she would shoot me—that she had a gun, so I said to my husband, “What will I do?” and he said, “Well you either go or give up your job, you can’t let them do that to you. You have to accept it—now you do one or the other, that’s all.” Well I was furious, because I thought well that’s a fine thing so I got in my car and all the way up, I tried to decide what how I’ll leave Paul, you know, because he’s so mean and I got up there and get in the meeting and everything and the rest of the tenants cheered because they had wanted her out for a long time and nothing happened, so when I came out, this gentleman, police car came up to me and said, “Mrs. Titchener, we have been here all along—your husband called me,” so you see that spared me getting a divorce. (laughter) It was really funny though because I thought, well, dear me, what, what is going on? Well now I better get down to this because this I think does say something about—it says, “Dorothy Titchener is color blind, sympathetic and empathetic to be administrator of 612 housing units for which the Housing Authority has responsibility. She dislikes the term ‘Housing Units’ as a merciless, bureaucratic phrase which does not reflect the essential human factors which exist in 612 families from lonely old oldsters to 14 member households. She has the reputation among most of her tenants of being warm hearted, hard headed, fair and tough. Her principal problem is—there is always some 300 families seeking apartments which are not available. Mrs. Titchener feels that she administers a society of microcosms, a society embracing any society’s proportion of success, failure, love, hate, happiness, despondent, culture, and delinquency. She considers law enforcement of prominent importance in any society. She feels that many otherwise astute citizens do not understand the so-called housing under the edicts under the Housing Authority. A highly paid executive with 12 children, she said, can readily be considered a poor man but richer or poorer than the Viet, the Vietnam veterans with no skills, a wife and child. The State sets the income limits which must be instituted by an applicant’s payroll deduction forms. The authority counts the dependents. Mrs. Titchener and her colleagues must then measure all other human factors relating to their interest.” So that gives you a rather hard line view of what it is and I do feel that people misunderstand it because they used to say and this is why we didn’t name the other place and another thing we did when they moved in, we gave them one sheet of paper with their address in an envelope—it was in their apartment when they moved in a we moved in all the families in 2 days, who were eligible. Dan: That is for Isbell and— Mrs. Titchener: Yes, Isbell and Exchange Street. Dan: 45. Mrs. Titchener: Well then we made our Central Office there—that’s what it became and in a sense that was in a way more difficult because I saw less of the other 2 places because my office was down there and that seemed to be much more and I knew them all and when I retired, they gave me in dimes, nickels and dollars and quarters $375.00 from the elderly tenants down there and I didn’t know what to do with it. I could think of nothing I could buy that would be meaningful so I asked if anyone else wished to contribute to it, though I didn’t do it myself, but Mr. Johnson said if anyone wanted to. I came up with almost $1000.00 of additional money that was given and I gave that to the Fairview Home for fun parties. They were not to buy equipment—they were to bring movies in that were real, have sherry parties, they were to entertain with it and have fun because my life has been one of great enjoyment and fun. I just really love it. Well now to get to ah to go back on some of the things that I didn’t leave you—different awards that I’ve had ah some are in this room. I’ve had 18 scrolls or plaques or something in my life which I consider quite something because I don’t deserve hardly any of them but anyway I, I thoroughly enjoy them. I had a War Certificate for raising, this was when I had—well my profession was radio and television, as I told you and I was on radio then and I sold War Bonds. Dan: This was for WWI? Mrs. Titchener: Yes—no it must have been II, I think it was II—yes because I had moved. WWI I was still in school and I came here. This was in WWII. But we wanted to get—buy a bomber. They needed bombers and so ah we raised $310,000.00 in one night and ah Thomas Watson paid for a program for us so we didn’t have to pay for that and so and he gave me a check for $1000.00 because we had 20—this friend of mine, who was a public relations director later of Housing, but she helped ah she had 10 or 20 phones coming in with money coming in and she would bring out the money and Dottie Baker who was then, had been on WNBF as a commentator and she did the commentary for this program and then it was coming in so slowly that he had a fit because anything he was connected with, you know, must be successful, you know he had that feeling of success and that was it—so what was I doing and I kept sending back why, why get it—well the phones were clogged—it took us until the next day really so he gave me a check for $100,000.00—he had already purchased a $10,000 bond, so had Mrs. Watson and I took the check and tore it in pieces and dropped it in his hand, which was the biggest thrill of my life to do that and we did raise $310,000. We bought the bomber and we called it “Broome Sweeps the Air,” something like that. Well that was an award that I got from the Government, then I got the Girl Scout National Thanks Badge, which is a pin and I got a certificate for founding the Camp at a later date. Then the thing I liked the best is the American Legion Award, Post 80, because my husband got it just 10 years before I did and then after he was gone, why I received it and I and Dr. Mary Ross is the only other woman to ever receive this award and I’m the second women and of course she is not alive so I’m the only woman now who has received it and I—it was in 1967 that I got that and then I got a Senior Homes Plaque when we built the—from the Housing Authority—I got a plaque for that and then I got a certificate for that from the tenants themselves with giving them a home and so forth at Exchange Street and both of them I got in 1968, that was. Then Sertoma Club gave me an International Award for exceptional service to mankind—that sounds kind of big—I don’t know who mankind are but anyway this was in 1969 and then the Local Sertoma also gave me an award the same year and the Ladies of Charity for Exceptional Community Service in 1969, the New York State President of Housing and Urban Renewal in 1970. I got into that, I was State President of that and ah that was ah for outstanding work and then I got this one which pleases me greatly for outstanding management of Public Housing from the Management Association—I thought that was pretty good because I never considered myself a manager—I’ve managed but I always did it so, you know, iffy—I thought so, anyway that pleased me, that was in 1971 and a 20 year award for Housing and Renewal accomplishments in ‘72 and a New York State award of Good Management from the State Public Housing in New York in 1968 and then just recently in 1977 I was the Woman of Achievement award and that isn’t a plaque, that’s a I don’t know, it’s a scroll and then ah I told you about the newspaper and I got an award for that—doing the newspaper for the Junior League. Now in business and Professional Women, I have several offices. I was local Vice President—I never was President of my Club because they always said I didn’t fool around with little things so I went on—I was Regional Director and then I was State President, then I was National Radio Chairman and then I was International Radio and Television Chairman and as International Chairman of that, I broadcast from Canada on BBC to welcome a new club in England—welcome them into the Federation and incidentally along with that, the founder of the Business and Professional Women’s Club was a Lena Madison Phillips and she was going away and she asked me to take her place on the Security Council in ah United Nations Security Council in New York for one day so I had the thrill of doing that for her and she incidentally died on that trip so I never saw her again. She was a great friend of mine. Another great friend of mine among a woman who I admired greatly was Eleanor Roosevelt. I knew her very well and I, and she was very, very good to me and gave me a great deal of good advice—fine advice. I knew her in her late years after the President died. Then ah, I told you International—oh I opened, when I was State President of Business and Professional Women’s Club, I opened the first State Office here in Binghamton in my house of Riverside Drive and the first Secretary worked for me—we called her the Secretary of State, so we had a lot of fun with that. I was ah I told you TV and International Chairman, I opened office. I, also the first State magazine. I like to write and so ah a lot of my work has been done in writing—I’ve never done anything—I’ve never tried to publish anything because I don’t, I never wanted anyone to see it but I write a lot and I oh did write a pageant that we gave at the State Convention and that was I have that several other places too and ah then our big thing was when we put up Margaret Chase Smith as for Vice President and I didn’t know her then but I just called her and got her. Well, on the phone, I was astounded—it was like calling the White House, you know, sometimes you get ‘em, mostly don’t but I did get her and then Judge Hughes was, has been National President of BPW and she was in Texas and Margaret of course came from Maine. All right, we went to this Convention and it was a wow, because, I told you about taking the handkerchief back, there was just three of us, this is the Democratic Convention. [Tape #2] Mrs. Titchener: …but on the floor there it had been tried. I had to bull my way on the Democratic (fly) so I had a very good one. She called me, I didn’t go to the Republican Convention and she called me at home and it was all on TV, I could look at it and she said, “I think we have a winner here,” and we had ah, Clare Booth Luce to nominate and Margaret Chase Smith. Senator Smith couldn’t come because her mother was dying in a Maine Hospital and at the last minute she had to decline coming. So it was all set though that Clare Booth Luce was to nominate and she got up and she stood there when someone came up and handed her a small piece of paper, whereupon, she read, “Oh this is a great surprise, Senator Smith has withdrawn her name.” Well we all could have flopped—well you can imagine what her real manager did to me—he called me up and said, “What are you doing, she did not withdraw her name.” Now they, they’ve made an investigation of it and they know the two people who did it—I won’t tell them it’s none of my business but he really gave me Goddy because what was I doing to take her name and smear it all over. We ran it—we sold bricks at the National Convention—we called them bricks—a buck for a brick and we raised $1010.00— Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: —for that, and ah we divided that equally between, ah, between Senator Smith and Judge Hughes and so we ran that whole campaign and we had about 4 million dollars worth of publicity because it was such a unique thing for women to do then, you see, you couldn’t do it that way not of course but we were very naive about it and I happened to know Drew Pearson through my work in radio—I was a member of the American Women in radio and TV, I forgot that—I used to go with them once in a while—the men would come to that and we’d go to theirs, their convention—the men—so I knew him and he was going to run, they had 8 people running for Vice President of the Democratic ticket, among them F.D.R. Jr. and a lot of people were running. So I went down to see him and he said he was going to run a contest Sunday night and ask people to phone in their choice because he, he thought that would be [an] interesting feature. So ah, Leona Wallace, this friend of mine, ran a, a small advertising agency and she was running the publicity for our group so I called her and I said, “Get every State President and send to them this notice,” and said that to for them to get every club in their State to send in votes for Judge Hughes. So the whole thing ended with Judge Hughes getting 390 votes and the rest of them got 10, 11 and 12 and 14, like that and I went down the next day and poor Drew Pearson was all slumped over and he says, “Hey Dot what’s going on?” and I said, he says, “Who in blank is Sarah Hughes?” So that was quite an event anyway and she was nominated and the two reporters from ah it was Woody Fischette and ah who later wrote a very fine column about me which was in the Congressional Record—I’ve been in that twice—through Senator Smith’s efforts and anyway he was one and ah McManus who later worked with Rockefeller was the other one and they were furious because they were required to stay over the next morning and see Judge Hughes nominated for Vice President and we only had—they kept asking me how many votes I had. I said, “Oh a block.” Well we called, we called 12 a block see—anyway we ah—she withdrew her name, she just wanted to be nominated. Dan: What Presidential election was this, Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Ah when Eisenhower was running against Taft. Dan: All right. Mrs. Titchener: That was the reason we got all these things. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: That’s the reason the Republican people worked to embarrass them—the Taft people wanted to embarrass ah Eisenhower—they wanted to get someone in there to embarrass him if Taft was not going to win so that’s why we had such success there and we really, really got in on that. We had one funny incident because ah the Democrats put up that woman who had been a party worker for many years—I can’t think of her name now, but it doesn’t matter, anyway she had a big dinner and she didn’t invited Sarah Hughes as a candidate, so I went to her and said, “What are you doing? She’s a candidate.” “Oh,” she said, “I don’t think she is going to get anywhere,” and I said, “Well whether she gets anywhere or not, you invite her.” So she went but she was seated way down nowhere near the, the head table. So we went to a cocktail party, a huge one the Pennsylvania group were giving and the reporters, some of them were in there and this reporter said, “I hear some dame’s running,” another dame besides this one who was really well known and I said, “Yes,” I said, “She’s going to win, I’M telling ya so you want to meet her?” So I, we march in and so there’s one seat left at the head table—at the end of the head table so we march in—this girl with me was a reporter and we see Sarah. “Come on, Sarah, you have been invited up to the head table.” So she gets up to the head table, so he’s taking pictures of her and this other woman is raging and Vickie Levene, incidentally, Victoria Levene, was running this other woman’s candidate, was helping with it. She was furious too of course, because here I was with, just sashaying up there with, with Sarah. Well it all ended all right because Sarah finally gave up and didn’t do anything about it. So I told you about selling the bricks and ah I told you about the different things that we did for the tenants and all the places we had dances and teas and then finally I retired from Housing in 1974 and I worked briefly at Roberson Memorial Christmas Shop for a while and then I was on the ah lay Board of the State Hospital and there they didn’t care much for volunteers because they were, they felt that ah volunteers didn’t know anything and so I, I, I stayed on about a year and then I retired from that and then I was on the lay board of the Board of Education—that was even worse (laughter). NO, no they wouldn’t they didn’t want us—all they wanted us to do was to—they made me publicity chairman and all they didn’t want me to do any publicity unless it was saying how great they were. When I told the truth of things that I saw, they blacked it out—so that was useless. So now I have retired in grace and am having a wonderful time and I love my life and I do what I please now for a change. Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: And I think I told you about my profession was, and oh I acted as a Persia Campbell—was head of the consumer’s department for New York State under Harriman and I worked as a consultant for her. Now these are things where I had made money and I got $25.00 a day to go around to ah clubs in this county—nearby clubs and consult with them about consumer problems, knowing nothing about them. I, I’ve never been very good at that but anyway I can, I can falsify. Dan: Well most of your life has been volunteer work, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: It’s been entirely volunteer work except I did make money. I did teach dancing once—I did write a column for the Press once for which I received money and I got money for this and of course I had that radio program and I had very good money when i worked for—I worked for 8 years for McLean’s—I ran a contest there and I worked there 8 years and then I went to ah down to WENE and there I would not—I persuaded ah Tom Watson, Mr. Watson that he needed me very badly and that I didn’t want to go under the name of IBM because I would have to be so, you know, so strict about what I said so he just gave me a little note to Charlie Curtin and he says, “Give Dorothy what she wants for money,” and we put it under the Endicott Chamber of Commerce and I worked there almost 9 years and I made very good money there and I was sent all over doing things and ah then I told you about oh and I was also on this Empire State Housing and Renewal Board for 3 years that ah Rockefeller started and they built Ely Park, they were—I was on that Board for a while and I guess that’s all that I did and— Dan: Now when you ah took over ah the ah—you were Chairman of the ah Housing Board, is that right? Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Was that your title? Mrs. Titchener: Chairman of Housing Authority. Dan: Of Housing Authority. Now Carlisle and ah Saratoga Heights had already been built but you were instrumental in building 25 Exchange Street and Isbell? Mrs. Titchener: Yes, yes it’s 45 Exchange. Dan: 45 Exchange, yes. Now the funding of the housing units, is that ah on a percentage basis—so much by City, so much by the State? Mrs. Titchener: Well the State, the State furnishes ah moving for the State problems, the State division and the State ones are Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights are both State— Dan: Funded. Mrs. Titchener: Funded, but the funding is in this matter—you are the first year because you hadn’t made anything yet and you’ve got very low income and you can’t possibly pay all your debts so you were given a subsidy but then you cut that down every year. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And finally at the end we weren’t getting any subsidy—we were self-sufficient and when I left the Housing Authority, we owed $13.00 and I understand now from the papers that they owe some 37 or 47 thousand. Dan: You better get back in it. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, any day. Dan: Now the same thing is applied with Isbell and Exchange Street. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: So that was subsidized— Mrs. Titchener: And we cut it down every year and we do pay taxes to the City of Binghamton. Dan: In other words diminished ah diminishing subsidization. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, right and we do pay taxes but because we pay ah 10% of our rent with the utilities subtracted, because we give them utilities. We take the total cost of utilities at the end of the year, the telephone is not provided but their gas and their heat, electricity—that’s all provided. We take the cost of that and then what is left from that we take 10% of the balance and pay to the City in the form of a tax. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And I argued with ah always had my picture taken presenting them with a check for the newspapers because everyone said, “Oh we’re paying for all this.” Well now that is not necessary if you have good management. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: And I had such a marvelous board—it was not—I was the one who sparked them—who did things because I just can’t wait to unfurl about 20 yards of red tape—that annoys me so I just do it and tell them afterwards. That was really true, but the Board was so good. Dan: Isbell Street and Exchange Streets went so smoothly. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ah is so much so that in contrast with Woodburn Court—now everything has been torn down and— Mrs. Titchener: Now Woodburn Court, I really was against doing that. What I wanted in Woodburn Court and tried very hard to get it—in fact I had a personal check from a large industry in this community of $100,000 as seed money and I tried very hard to get them to make it—if you say Halfway House, you think of something alcoholic—I wanted an intermediary place where some of the elderly people who live in Exchange, who can no longer care for their apartments, could move with some care ah have ah have their meals prepared and have a dining room and have their meals prepared and have it a transition from that to going into some home which they ultimately have to go to or else a hospital or something of that nature. So that’s what I tried very hard to have Woodburn Court and they turned me down and of course I had to fight with City Council for everything we got. We had to put on a floor show and just ram it down their throats. Dan: Do you think the delay has been the lack of communication between the Mayor and City Council? Mrs. Titchener: I really don’t know that I have a—I did not fight for Woodburn Court because when I lost interest I had, I gave the check back to the organization because it was nearing the end of my time and I worked very hard and I’ve had fights and fights and fights with the City Council and I was expecting my paper, my picture in the paper upside down or something. Dan: There seems to be so much of wasted land there on Susquehanna Street with no provisions made for the future. Mrs. Titchener: I think that Woodburn Court probably will be successful but I think the Exchange Street is going to suffer by it because everybody from there who can go into Woodburn Court is going to move there. Dan: Yeah, will the tenants of Woodburn Court, ah, have to meet the same qualifications? Mrs. Titchener: No they have—that’s on another Federal program—that’s a Federal project and that’s on another program—I can’t tell you the number ah they’re always talking numbers to me and then I would have to go to my little Bible and look it up because I was too old something you know but they are being subsidized partially—their rent is being subsidized by the Federal people and they are paid for the for the ah the person who is building it—the builder can’t afford of course—things have gone up so now. Dan: Sure. Mrs. Titchener: If that had been built 7 years ago it would have been better but it wasn’t and I really don’t know why. I know there were all sorts of reasons probably but I never pushed it. I never, I had nothing to do with Woodburn Court, in fact I hoped it wouldn’t be built because i thought, I think that ah Exchange Street is having trouble enough now. Dan: Yeah. Mrs. Titchener: They’re always advertising for apartments and we had a waiting list of 300 people and they were so jealous of that waiting list, they’d call, you know, ask where they were on it and we really, we really stuck to that but I don’t know I, I really don’t know as I say I don’t go down there. I thought that I would have a lot of fun because I had many friends there and I would visit them but I was told to stay out and I have stayed out and I don’t know I think there may have been some sort of personal jealousy, I don’t know, but I know everything with my name on it, even little things that said, “Please don’t put your garbage in the hall,” even little notices like that have been destroyed—anything that had my name attached to it. That, I don’t know why but I guess I’m that controversial type of person and they didn’t want any part of it—that’s it—but I did love it and it gave me the greatest satisfaction next to my own children and then the last thing I have done is my book. I have to get that in because I’ve had so many, so many honors and so one day my daughter called me up one night and she said, “You know, Mother, you’re gonna die.” I said, “Are you figuring on tonight or something like that?” She said, “No, I thought you’re always writing poetry and you stick it around and we’re going to drop it all down the incinerator,” so that made me mad so I decided to do this and I’ve been trying to think of some way to repay this community for the wonderful things they have done for me so I dedicated my book—I call it Seasoning and dedicated it to Jim, Ann and Jean and their families who have seasoned my life with joy and then I said Foreword: “This small book is a gift. It is my way to say Thank You to the many agencies for whom I have worked, who have so graciously honored me in the past and hopefully will bring some pleasure to my countless acquaintances and warm personal friends.” So I didn’t sell the book—I had it printed at my expense and then gave it to these organizations to sell for their own charities and Sertoma took some and BPW and Zonta and the church had some and various other organizations asked for them and I ordered a hundred and I thought I could never get rid of a hundred and the printer said to me, “I have to do the whole thing alone”—my children were going to help me and they all left and so I had to pick out the design and I had to do the printing and the paper and you know, pick the whole thing out and put it all in and I had my children all in here—they had all done something—they’re all here in the back. Anyway I had a lot of fun doing it and then I have it and they had made enough money, lots of them, to do really fine things because they were selling them for $5.00 and I was not, at my age, going to start out selling books. So anyway this is the way I did it and I feel in a way that I had paid back some of the wonderful things that really I, I just can’t say enough about how much has been done for me. Dan: Well everything has been deserved, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: I don’t know, I don’t know. Dan: On one last note—the naming of Titchener Hall? Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes. Dan: At Broome Community College. Mrs. Titchener: That was wonderful. Ah Paul, of course, was the organizer, he was the founder and went to ah Governor Dewey and persuaded him that this would be necessary and that was fine and then he was the first Chairman of the Board there and he was Chairman for many years. So when he retired ah he asked to be able to name a successor—to name a couple of people and that’s when Darwin Wales went on as Chairman because he was a great friend of Paul and is a great friend of mine. So they gave this dinner and in the meantime they had a painting painted of Paul by ah ah, next door—what’s his name ah you know the man next door—the artist—his wife Mae, he runs Roberson? Dan: Martin. Mrs. Titchener: Martin, anyway he painted this portrait of Paul and he painted without Paul knowing it and they showed it at this dinner. Well it was very stern and ah Paul wasn’t too pleased with it nor I because—but he did allow us to make some changes and we did make changes and now it is very fine and so they named Titchener Hall for him and that was in January, that this party was in January. They had a big party and Paul was very happy but we were going around the world. We had our way paid all the way around and I like to tell this because of the kindness of people. We had reservations in almost every country we went to in several places because Paul liked very much—he was a very man who wanted everything right and he always had to just get it right. Dan: Uh huh—very methodical. Mrs. Titchener: Excuse me, the point was that ah I wrote to all of them when he died very suddenly, without any warning whatsoever on the Wednesday before we were to leave on Friday. So I wrote all these places and I received every cent of money back even from—the last ones to give it back were the fares from the who was here right in this country but Cooks was the last ones to pay back. They said, they called me said, “It’d have to be something final,” and I said, “Well if death isn’t final, would you kindly tell me what is?” and they sent the money and so I got— Dan: Isn’t that a shame? 3 days before you were ready to leave. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, we were all packed and everything else all ready to go but in a way he would have been miserable because he was a very active man. He had a job—he was going to run Housing for the City and he had a job in City Hall and when he came back he was looking forward to doing this—that’s one reason I went into this so wholeheartedly after he died because I thought maybe I’m left to do the things that he never had the opportunity to do. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: Because he really was, he was a very—some people were afraid of him because he had a rather severe, austere appearance but he had a great sense of humor and from, when I became President, nominated President of the State, I asked him if he wanted me to do it because it meant I would have to be away nights quite a lot to travel around to the various clubs for dinners and he said, “Well Dot, I’d rather have dust under my bed than dust in your head”—just was a cute remark. Dan: It ah it was a blessing in disguise that it didn’t happen while you were— Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes, not only that but he would have been, he had ah really a hemorrhage very similar to what ah Franklin Roosevelt had—it was completely devastating and he would have been a vegetable had he survived and that would have not been for such. Now this book is a very personal book—it’s simply about my family and about the things I love out of doors. It’s not anything that anyone although people have been very kind to say they like it but and I have ah something from Karen Schmitt—I have one from each family—something that they have written. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And ah that’s very nice. I have my own self portrait here and then I have something, mostly written to my family and ah things of that kind and that’s what I did with it and the BPW on my 80th birthday gave me a birthday party and they told me they had given all the money they have received from this book to the ah New York State Scholarship Fund which pleased me a great deal. Dan: From what was that? Mrs. Titchener: Received from this book—the Business and Professional Women’s Club. So they sent that, sent the money that they received from selling their books. So I thought that I had accomplished something for both of us that I have the pleasure of having done it and this is purely personal—I have my children, none of them live here, none of them so I’m always alone holidays. So I decided on my 80th birthday, I’d have it at Thanksgiving, which would be better weather and I brought them all here and I brought them from 7 states and they were here 4 days and I had to put some up in motels because obviously haven’t room here and I had them for 4 days and we had breakfast and lunch here and then dinners we went out. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And it happened to be my youngest grandson’s birthday on Thanksgiving, so we had his birthday party and mine at the ah restaurant and had a marvelous time. I don’t think I went to bed for 4 nights because we stayed up and talked and laughed and I have, I have a controversial family I say they have inherited more of me than their more conservative father and we just ripped the roof off—completely (laughter). So will that simple note unless you have something more to ask me. Dan: Well you’re a very remarkable woman Mrs. Titchener, I certainly appreciate your consenting to this interview. Mrs. Titchener: Well I’ve enjoyed it. I like to do things if it, it will be helpful. Dan: It certainly will be. Mrs. Titchener: And thanks loads. I’ve enjoyed, I’ve enjoyed doing it very much and I want to thank the Action for Elderly for thinking this up. Dan: Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dorothy Titchener Subject The topic of the resource Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity; Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Description An account of the resource Dorothy Titchener speaks about her life including her marriage to Paul Titchener, the founder of <a href="http://www1.sunybroome.edu/">Broome Community College</a>, and working twenty years as chairman of the Housing Authority. She mentions her affiliation with the Business and Professional Women's Club and their efforts to nominate <a href="http://www.aauw.org/2013/11/21/judge-sarah-tilghman-hughes/">Judge Sarah Hughes</a> as Vice President during the Eisenhower-Taft election. She lists among her acquaintances individuals, such as, President and Mrs. Franklin D. Roosevelt and <a href="http://www.hallofgovernors.ny.gov/NelsonRockefeller">Governor Rockefeller</a>. She also details her achievements with the Girl Scouts Council and purchasing a lake, named Amahami, as a camp for the Girl Scouts club.   She mentions her affiliation with the  Junior League and Business and Professional Women's Club, as well as other local organizations. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/m4a Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 61A ; Recording 61B; Recording 61C Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Titchener, Dorothy ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:54 Minutes ; 11:28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f04f940ad7b25d0c816d222a43dc4cd0.m4a d7ecc4c1ccd4f436a179e129b0ac3277 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f4576cb1911528e1dd7943c4b451f21b.m4a 1a0e1c7ca252b78bad7be9d213b59bf8 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f2403014ac9ed024b9da9ca54253ef75.m4a 618c7bd5ce4b6be7846d8334239e6cdf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Warski, John Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1977-11-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:22 Minutes ; 26:42 Minutes ; 4:42 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56047">Interview with John Warski</a> Subject LCSH Warski, John -- Interviews; Austria; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Jessup (Pa.); Endicott (N.Y.); Immigrants -- Interviews; Carpenters -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; House construction Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: John Warski Sr. Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 16 November 1977 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to John Warski Sr. of Cafferty Hill Rd., Endicott, New York on Nov. 16, 1977. Mr. Warski let us start at the beginning when you arrived in America. John: I came this country–-Beginning from little boy, something. Nettie: Yes, you can start at that time. John: Well when I was a little boy I was interested little bit in carpentry job. We had a little farm, not much. I can't make a living from that, my father dead in job, what they call Carpo now, he go to work over there they been 1907. Nettie: You came to this country in 1907? John: Yes I come in 1907. I come to this country in 1907. My father go to work over there and they kill him in job. I comes over here landed go through Bremen, Germany and landed in Baltimore. From Baltimore they bring us grandchildren, four or five, six people together they come to Pennsylvania, Olyphant. Nettie: Excuse me, did you come to Baltimore by train or boat? John: Oh, we came by boat—ship. Nettie: Did you go to Ellis lsland first? John: No, Baltimore they got Casa Garda in building. New York is different what they call Casa Garda, Baltimore is different. Comes over here brings in May 1907. We go together to Olyphant—those people they have father and cousin over there but I have address to my cousin in the Jessup next place over there. They get out of Olyphant. I go out with them too. I don't know nothing too much about it…how it goes. They go find those people their cousin and when they found out so I get different address I not belong to them. I take a walk about one mile from Olyphant they show me where to go up to Jessup. When I come to the Jessup I walk by the railroad tracks come to Jessup and sit on the bench between the bushes and grass—been thinking—what am I going to do? What am I going to ask for? You know what it is. Then I see man walking by the railroad track inspect the track they got hammer and wrench. I look over there well recognize he been from my village, he work on that track over there. He look on me that I sit over there he don't know me—he know me old country all right been me—been working for the priest been neighbor of the priest. Then after while he looked willow and I starting to call the name Mike! Mihal! Mihal! See I don't know the language, nothing. He stop, look, look stop and start to go again…I start holler again to by the name—he start I started to come to him and he started to come to me, we get together just been in front house where he been living—he rented house by the tracks. I told him who I am—he been surprised what I doing over here. I explain that few people they take up in Olyphant but my address been over here—they tell me to use what got address—I had address fellow been my mother's sister's husband his name Orayko. Well then comes there he takes me in a house he been married been village across river just like Susquehanna that woman been come from there… Well I take wash up every morning come from old country they have to wash themselves wash—all kinds of people, you know. She give me eat this, this. After while that cousin I have address to him he come from work. He live same house just other people rented boarding over there. When they come from work he find out I was over there and he come to me started to talk this, that—then he go to store, buy me some clothing—little bit cheap clothing so—I don't have just—what I had on myself, some shoes like that. Then in about 2 days he ask the boss about the job for me for the breaker, breaker that big building—so breaked the dumped coal in big lumps and when they break in pieces they screen it—they call it breaker, coal breaker. I get a job over there to pick slate—see they got of place. Sitting over there they keep the hands down—chute go down got little bench—piece board over there they keep their feet like that when (pold) roll down—see something—try they got another chute for the rock. I work there 10 hours a day I think so 9 hours a day. $1.00 on a day, yeah. I been working for little while and I ask that cousin, I come to him—figure like same job only different factory—dumped different type of rock. I ask him been needed man for the driver up the colander dump where they dump all rock they give me that job over there for the driver. I been working over there two to three years, maybe 2 years I don't know something like that before I started again to pick slate. I don't know how long that happened maybe one year something like that—I changed the jobs so on the rock. Then after while I don’t know how long I work the breaker burned down. No job. Been working at home. I have to do something. I have two guys been working in a paper mill near Watertown, Dexter, New York near Canada. I wrote a letter and they tell me come on up and maybe you will get a job there. So I come and two days later over there I look around I come later—I had friends and they take me on the board from my village and I wrote to him. I get up in the morning been living by the paper mill, by the factory. I just go there look it over how they make the paper so interesting. I asked them first should can I go inside—yeah, you go in there—nobody bother you. Take a look inside the shop. Then I saw some kind of guy—sport— well find out he been superintendent of that shop. He talk to me and asked—well that happened later, he talked to me and make ask—"You look for job?" Yeah. “Well come afternoon sometime tell me sometime in afternoon, then you come get your job.” I said, all right. Well then he go for a little while, well, half hour—well you better start tomorrow morning. All right—I come tomorrow morning ask—he look, look on me and don't say nothing. I ask him for what happened to my job you promised me yesterday? “Oh! I forgot it—” Well he give job to work down in the basement with water been in machine, lots to explain. Then after while l work I don't know how long I work, I been interesting been recognizing the building the fireman. I like look lots time how they work—Italian Jew boss engage on the boiler, that's all. Just the boss. Then I ask if you remember get the job get another boss in the same company, see. This factory where I go different building. They give me job, said you take the job if you want it. Well then—I want to wheel coal or ashes from the boiler—see they push cart inside boiler, they got regular tracks, open door coal run down, sometimes fireman when visit somebody gets close to boiler, if far away have shovel to them. Then clean fire, put ashes on pile—I have to take the wheelbarrow, my job to wheel like on a dump, other side of boiler. Then I work while I plan how the fireman throw the coal, how they look interesting. Then after a while been chance I ask the boss, I like fireman head per man—headman run all the business and helper get busy, too, work to do. Then after while chance coming somebody quit, something like that, they give me job, helper. I started fireman, started fireman work for little while, I don't know how long, I can't explain, never keep track of maybe year or something like that they been fireman, head man quit. They give me job—head man. So I have to know what start water pump, fill those tanks have outside the hill—they got lots of things, you know. They got to take care of boiler, clean the boiler inside. Every Sunday, I take every second Sunday you got to got go inside the boiler, drain water out, coal out, put cold water something like that… I been thinking this way—Well little while—two guys they telling that paper mill over there—they been working there—they quit—work Bridgeport, Conn.—Bridgeport, Conn.—the shipyard work. They wrote the letter—I think so I going to try it—maybe I'll get a job. I quit over there and go to Bridgeport, Conn. Well, I find some Russian lady from Russia, they board over there—I find board. Next day so I go to shipyards, well, when I come over there, there is a line people that with the tools, everything, carpenter, short wait for the job. Boss coming in the line just take maybe one or two, call us— look what he got, this and that and after while said—no job no more. Everybody pick up tools, mad, swear like hell. (chuckle) Well, I go out—he never ask me even and I go home where I been boarding over there—I think so no use staying over here. Might as well go back to Dexter. When I come back I remember it was like Decoration Day, I see it in Bridgeport—make the parade on Decoration Day. See I don't know what it been, I just know it was Decoration Day. And I come back to Dexter—I ask for job—they give me job for the other boiler room. The company have lot of factory not so far—maybe good size—the block away. They make a clear type of paper—the other one they make a rough paper—something like that. They give me the job for the helper—they wheel coal, yes, that's right, wheel coal just the same thing like before and said you going to get chance you going to get that job. And so some guy somebody going to quit job, helper, been quit, he don't want to work or something I don't know—he put me like helper. That fireman I before work in coal little bit I have change fireman sitting I took the shovel and I throw it, coal, shut the doors, I train myself. He show me how. He like me and he do something so he talked to night watchman been German ‘cause change every week, different shift, one week daytime and one week night time. He told something against those helpers say he don't want to work don't care much to working so he put me on there. One time the helper no come no more, they get fired. I don't know anyhow he no come no more. Last time I work with the helper, last time I work with the helper then those firemen get sick or something, I get head fireman. I been work 2 years or something like that. One time I get argument with the boss with the boiler room, ah, Jessup on account of big pipe—lift those clinkers what they call them they get banded too much to explain—I have on my mind to quit. To come to Endicott—then I quit them over there—I came to Endicott. In Endicott I got work with that carpenter. I don't know his name forgot his name he used to build those Burt Building contractor. So before that he work on houses living by the river, Susquehanna, few houses. After while we started build house get contract to build Cibulsky on Rogers Ave. See The Endicott Lumber Box Co. Make the contract The Box Co. make the contract on Saturday and about middle week U.S. declare war for the Germany. Nettie: What year was that? John: Oh, old country, yeah, U.S. declare war and they just start war business. Then I get job right away with the Box Co. He give me work he give me job carpenter so I work with Cibulsky house, Shefchuk house, and Prosmans… Besides working on other houses way up on other houses where the park (possibly Rabble Ave) pausing—thinking….That all right all right—somebody start talking about IBM—IBM they had just only had one building from that time had little building—supposed to be call ITR. I just try for the luck, so might get it job there. I ask for carpenter job there because IBM make clocks there. I go to office ask them there said maybe you get job but boss on vacation. Come back. You take the job, take anything to get inside, before boss come maybe they could show you job you ask for. I take the job where some kind of parts on machine on little machine they bend it you know. Work a little while then move (spare)—so IBM soon gonna pretty soon close it you know—no business—IBM—no IBM but I—well—Think so like that so I go to EJ—tannery. Before that I worked in the tannery too—forgot to mention see. But I get back the same job in tannery. Little by little IBM started to build up—but that too late. Nettie: Who was your boss in the Tannery? John: Where, EJ? Griffis just name I forgot but been old man but his son been boss too, foreman Lee Griffis I guess, I think so Lee. I work little while there sometime dinnertime had chance to go to boiler room over there to look around—I interesting in the fireman—all the time. I go over there to look around—been short U.S. take all men then for the war. Already they have been short. Asked boss about the job. He said here take this job, maybe few days, maybe so wheel ashes and coal and then I put you for regular fireman—they fire by the shovel at the time then after while they those put automatically. Then I started to work later two days or few weeks I don't know in the boiler room, one time I get sick a little bit—this had flu—start people get the flu— Nettie: Is that the influenza? John: Yes influenza, yes. I don't come to work—nobody been tell the boss, so I no show up—I been living at that new houses on Rogers Ave. See he come in the house—boss engineer room engine and the boiler, forgot his name. And said what is the matter? You sick? Yeah, feel been sick little bit not much well feel little bit. He said please if you can come to work—ain't got no men—all men been over there they take in the army be working on that job. Next day I come back to work. I came to work. I come back back to work until war was over. War was over that man on his job come back and put that man on his job on my place. They put me wheeling coal. I don't want it. Wheeling coal, I quit. I quit and then after a while I did not know what I did. Nettie: After the boys came back from service? John: From service yeah, same fella, they got job back. Nettie: So where did you work? John: I can remember—I guess I work spare time, carpenter and you know lots of steam heat-plumbing but I know little bit. Then I forget the track where I work. Nettie: Where did you live? Did you live with Cibulsky?  John: Yeah, I boarded up to Cibulsky—yeah—then war over—about year or year a half something like that—I take my wife over here and I move it up stairs—remember? Nettie: Yeah. John: I renter up there. Nettie: Your wife came from Europe. Did you get married here or over there? John: Ha! I got married in the old country. In old country before they said maybe I come second time over here—I forgot to mention—see when I come at 22 years—happen have 3 classes to join the army—Austria—I come from Austria. But then, after a while Poland taken—taken that—wife come from Poland because they Polish people, their country. So, I suppose to come before draft, last time, third time, two time no pass but third time pass—if no pass—you can marry—been low all the time. I couldn't come before third—finish it. They draft me to Army—Austria—well no call me—well I come I have to report to village right away. Next day I wait for call—they call me next year for doctor's like that. Nettie: You were in America when they called you? John: Over there old country. When time times got letter to go to doctor—to visit—they draft me that time and in fall or beginning spring. In the Fall they call me to doctor—to army. I been in army 12 months, no 12 weeks—you know why—the other way be 3 years. I make claim exemption—what they call—I make support—mother—They had village secretary they have to care few villages like that—she got voice—"a pull"—yeah, a pull—you just have to go for the training—something if happen bad you have to go just the same. They gave me release. When I come back—I marry after. I leave wife 9 months. Nettie: Then you came with Mrs. Warski to Endicott—is that right? Mrs. Warski and you came back to Endicott after married in Europe? John: Come to Rogers Ave. Nettie: How did you find the village there—not many houses in Endicott or buildings? John: Well, Cibulsky’s—North Side—no be many. Nettie: How about downtown, fire station—on Washington Ave.? John: They have State Bank—fire station—Endicott Trust Co.—fireman—fire— Nettie: Did they have many stores on Washington Ave.? John: When I come from Binghamton on a train—come from old country second time—I be mention to go back to paper mill—remember—yeah, after while I have little little argument with boss so I quit. I have in mind to come over here—I came to Binghamton—from Binghamton take street car to Endicott to Cibulsky’s—living up there. The street car—I told you I go old country back. In street car nothing—just street car—farms, farms, nothing—Johnson City—just little bit houses. I come to Endicott some places—lots of many have sidewalks from the boards—some places have no sidewalks, at all—No (greens). Come to Cibulsky’s rented house on Odell Ave.—they use have Greek Ice cream parlor, Trubach—they make a suit. Cibulsky—I lived up there—kitchen upstairs and two small rooms—Schuler live been with wife, have kids already—John been already there. (Chuckling) They put couch in the kitchen by the stove—he sleeping there, Cibulsky. When I got job with carpenter—I make in few different places—you know, Burt Store—you know they started before I worked there. Then we start talking about houses—Cibulsky, she say, “John, please talking maybe built house because he go away and spend money all the time.” “All right, I gonna try.” One time I talk to him, I say you make house, that no good. Well, if you want I help you. I told him—maybe give him money—I did not mention I gonna borrow money—but I help you. Then we start talk ‘bout plans and houses and lot. No place to build house. He work in Calfskin Tannery that time—I work in boiler room—no, I don't yet—that all right—I don't work in EJ yet—I work in Box Co. building houses—he said he didn't want go go to Sales Building to lawyer asking about lot—give it free. Nettie: Gave lots to workers free? John: Yeah. Sure! Well he says he don't want to go—just told me—just go take a lot—ask for lot. I go and they never ask me, “you work over here or not?” No lawyer ask me. They give me lot by the lot by the Miszaks—Squires Ave… When we start making contract—Box Co. ask for the lot. We give them deed told them where that lot is—he go Sales Building—Box Co. after we come back—later we get letter that lot somebody use it—ain't got no lot. They make plans for house already—just to build the house. They go ask Sales Building to ask to give you another lot. I go Sales Building—I told him—I told him something like that—you give lot to somebody else. They give Rogers Ave—They say Warski, you want that—that is the only place on all Rogers Ave.—they have no sewer but pretty soon they have sewers. We take that where house stands and they start to build that house and I get that job over there—I ask them—I work over there on that house. Nettie: When did you work in the tannery—after you built houses? John: Yeah, after while when they finish the building—something—Box Co. don't have no job—stop the building—so I go to tannery. Then I get fireman that man after while that man come from—I take his place—here I mentioned before. Well I go take—he take—to my job on machine inside tannery. Well, I work until—all you know how it happened—cut out—closed—no more tannery, there. Nettie: No more tannery? What? John: IBM they got.  Nettie: Now, but am I talking about before that?  John: I working ‘til pretty soon near finish—I go to retire—before— Nettie: Before you retired, you did not finish telling me about the time before you were building houses, all? When did your wife come— John: After that? Came from Europe.  Nettie: And you had your own home on Roosevelt Ave? John: My wife come in Rogers Ave. We live it already there—I rent upstairs and I paid board downstairs. Then I tell been in the hall—my wife—we live during winter time, we don't want to move it—people, see, I gonna move it out in spring, this people move out and I move it upstairs. Nettie: Did you have electricity, then, in the house? John: In Rogers Ave.—yes and then when I live it with Cibulsky come late—this and this—I don't want to talk over there about it—you know how it is—decided might as well build own house, have lot already. I hire contractor, dig cellar, put concrete wall, (petition), everythings I do myself, not myself, Cibulsky help me. Somebody else, somebody—some friend help me, plasterman—I have electricity, too well, all finishing work inside I do myself. I work in tannery, night time. Spare time I work house myself. I have no electricity that time like Rogers Ave. Nettie: What did you use for electricity? John: I use, borrow Pizur lamp go fishing before I get my electric. Then I put plumbing heat myself, some little help, myself. Nettie: What church did you attend? John: Well when I comes over to Endicott they have no church, they have Roman Catholic, I been board with Slavic people and they belong that Slavic church and she started, the lady, “What doncha come—to one time—big bunch of men go Sunday church.” Well, we say we try the church—we understand nothing—I do what they do, that's all. We come to here in Binghamton we go to Baxter Street one time and then I come to Endicott—they have there Cibulsky, was there—I started to go Endicott church.  Nettie: Many families or very few familes when you went there? John: Those (Hrodenski) they no like - you know. Nettie: Where they Carpo-Russians? John: No—from Russia—those from Hrodenski gubernia—no can explain—they don't like to go church much and they—we—mostly mostly those (oohorski)—Carpo-Russians—they ruin that church that time—the be boss that church that time—they after while they split. They call meeting, lawyer come, they make a splitting, they have 4 or 5 lots where school is—front of church and half cemetery—they’re take those lots. Nettie: Who took the lots? John: The Carpatho-Russians. See, they have safe—the Carpatho-Russians—those oohorski—like this something—they, Russian put make red ink. Nettie: When do they mean red mark? John: They mark something difference—last heard that, I never see that—they no explain they go to court, supposed to be go to court. That time, Russian priest been Borisoff—he had safe, small safe, in church now. He knows lock in safe and book, Bible, book record, by law. Nettie: Book of By-Laws? John: Yes, he look everything been side—Carpatho-Russian this side no good. Something like that. Take that book—destroy it—that priest—put someplace in the fire. They changed lock in safe and when come open it—you want to open it—try open—they open—they can't open—the leaders—they take those safe to court and courtroom open safe to show proof who boss. (Chuckling) And when come to court, open safe—hire somebody—I never been there—I don't know—then open it, was been surprised—nothing there—they find no record—no record—given to Russian—got be Russian, go away somewhere. After a while got to take safe back to church—I got motorcycle, side car, I take the safe in sidecar. Nettie: Did you put the safe in sidecar? John: I put safe in sidecar and was so heavy that pressed down and take back house. Nettie: Church was built—did they say—about monks built the church? John: Build church, like mostly cheap way, like shack, plaster like that—they don't have nothing much—have have (prestol)—built from the boxes like that—(this part in Russian—translation) lector reads below—the priest Rashtakoff had a book on instructions—he read up on it which told how the altar table should be built. That is difficult—this way, this way, put the top on (ha! ha!) make something like this—then monks hire from monastery—they build the bell and iconostasis—the iconostasis they build but posts—suppose to be—they make different—they have saw and hammer they got—they hire 2 men from Binghamton to make—do that—iconostasis—they just make post—no tsarski dverior royal doors—just opening—then I—left—they left—no finish, complain, don't make no money. Then I think to myself—I make the tsarski dveri—royal doors in garage Rogers Ave. Those posts—come plaster paris—those posts come—they design—they have to make hollow—that caps—lots of work—bottom have to be filled—inside cap hollow—some kind fit to even up—take time. Then I look around—new church—not much old church—repairs—bell—leaking around closet— Nettie: What year new church started? John: I think 1914—1916 been already. Nettie: When you talk of your house, how much to build your house fifty years ago? John: I never keep track because I do work myself—somebody help me—little bit I make checks to pay for material—just like that—pay cash—never keep track—never bother to keep track. One time have time to figure how much cost—I lost and forgot about it. Nettie: How many children did you have? John: Three children. When retire from EJ—66 years—I work—wait when my wife get pension—65 years old. Nettie: Did your wife work? John: No, she work in house—she get half—I had 66 years—77—89 years now. Nettie: After your wife died then you sold your home? John: I live there pretty near 10 years alone—sold 2 years ago. Nettie: Do you live with your son and daughter in law at present? John: Yes. Nettie: Were you glad you came here instead of living in Europe? John: I was glad to be get here what I have there—I got to work for somebody else just like I get eat twice a day—and 30 and 40 cents a daytime. Just like I come first like come go back to old country before—I try it I make one of those carpenter job business, in the house. I figure I work on the land for somebody—I want to make some money. Nettie: Where, here or there? John: Here. And where (spotty) work—I make those furniture—somebody in village give me make table, bed anything like that. I had neighbor work wagon make wheel—wagon—they call it—he know I handy—he need help. He said learn those things. He been good mechanic—hell of lot better than I, needs work on wagon—business then make table something, like that. Better come to help me—3 years—learn make wheel. Nettie: Like an apprentice? John: Yeah. This is better—you make table—something like that—he had store—little store, too—had a farm—little big farm—he can get—take so many jobs—he good mechanic—want to push for that thing it away—people waiting for—You learn it. You have better trade. Then I get neighbor—about block away—when come to work, eat sleep that's all—all right. I have my own bench. When I come to this country—I have been—brothers—they have somebody use—they need repair I make them new one—make new one—sometimes old one they throw away—bench take his house—he got his own if he have time—he got to work on farm—I come—first he show me—he give me job with a knife—to make a spoke. First thing plane on one end—scrape—then round it—give me—came from the farm—he been working farm. Well how wheels you make it on farm—look it over—I just finish it—look it over—I just been finish and he look over and said, “By gosh, you been make than I.” Then—this, this. I stay 3 months—finish my job—times come—I learn my job—I had just time—times come in—I go this country—have no change to work. Besides here I travel, Bridgeport. I forgot to mention—I don't like that job—I can't get into shipyards. I forget—I take walk in street—see sign “Wheel Wright”—make wagon repair. Like that sometime horses pull wagon—wheel go broke—take shop and repair it. They was one German and one Irish. I look them over—there they make ‘em body, first body they see just body of bus—school drived kids—before like taxi—bodies make there—Slovak work there on this body—Body like bus—like delivery—bus big one. We started talking with Slovak we mention—he asked me who I am—explain—what I did old country—this—this we need men like you over here—other man fixed wheel—sometimes broken wheel—sometimes he come to work and sometimes not. Those boss want to push him out but he afraid to push him out because no replace it—used to be got different job—see—like a regular school bus. Say, “Who want to take that job?” Said different work like old country but I fix you up—I show you—it easy—all right—you got a job. Come tomorrow—I have no clothes for that job—I loan you—you buy some. When I came those men no show up—get drunk—they never come. l work about 1 month—have no place to board—sleep like dog—any place—I no like it—I quit. I don’t want—I can’t eat, got to restaurant—something like that went—so many people in Bridgeport because they shipyard—so many workers over there. They say—I tell Slovak—try again—make me restaurant—boarding house—something like that—I take the boarding house—I have nothing left for me. What have nothing pay? I quit. I tell the boss—and he say, “MMMMMMMMMMMM—if I knew—I fire those men—what am I going to do now?” (Chuckle) Then I quit, go back to paper mill. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John Warski Subject The topic of the resource Warski, John -- Interviews; Austria; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Jessup (Pa.); Endicott (N.Y.); Immigrants -- Interviews; Carpenters -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; House construction Description An account of the resource John Warski talks about his interest in carpentry as a young boy after emigrating to the U.S. in 1907 from Austria, and going to Jessup, PA. He describes finding his way in a new country on his own and finding working in the boiler room at a factory where he shoveled coal into the boiler. He tells of leaving to go work in Endicott as a carpenter, and later at Endicott Johnson. He also discusses building his home. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 62 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6c3a5911be311ee7d89e4358271ce49f.m4a 80c9c9d748b5d9bf8b9d4788e565d48f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Weaver, Helene Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13:25 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56052">Interview with Helene Weaver</a> Subject LCSH Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America; House of the Good Shepherd; Broome County Office for Aging Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Helene Weaver Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 20 March 1978 Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could you tell us a little something about your early beginnings, your recollection of your childhood, where you were born, what your parents did and that sort of thing? Helene: Well, I was born in Binghamton on Miles Street in the year of 1897 and a my father and mother parted when I was very young and then he had a business in a what was called Lestershire and a he remarried and I lived with—in Lestershire and I had a stepmother who was very good to me and a all her—she was a family of ten children and a I thought a great deal of my aunts and uncles and my father had a business for a good many years. He had to run a meat market in Johnson—in Lestershire and then it was changed to Johnson City in about 1916 I think. And I left school the third year of high school and went to work in a E-J office and while I was there they changed the name from Lestershire to Johnson City and then they christened a boat down in New York—Johnson City and I was one of the delegates to go. There was a delegate from each department E-J's that was taken and there was the ones by Mr. George F. & Mr. Harry L. took the second ones—the second highest and we went to New York and christened this boat. Had a wonderful time. (chuckle) There was a four of us girls together and we had—we didn't get any sleep all the time we were gone because we were having such a wonderful time and I worked until I was married. Then in 1920 and a we had—we were—we were buying an E-J home and when the home was finished we went housekeeping. Susan: Do you recall how much you paid for that home? Helene: $4,000—$4,000 and each month—yes you paid your rent—you paid some on your principal. Well, we—we a lived there 7 years and a my daughter was born in 1927 and in 1928 we sold our home and moved to Binghamton because my husband’s work was in Binghamton then and he had been an E-J worker and then he was working for Crowley Milk Co. is why we moved to Binghamton and he worked there two or three years and then he was—he went to work for Stow Mfg. He worked there ‘til he died in 1955 and a well my father sold his business the year I was married and he retired and he died in 1954. He would have been 83 years old in about two months and he died. (clears throat) Pardon me, then a—and then after my husband died I went to work at the House of the Good Shepherd. I had charge of the dining room and I worked there 4 years and then I retired at 62—and then I was a—they called me in for extra work whenever they needed me and then I knew some different people that they needed some help with meals and I used to go out and help them with their meals and do little things for people and then I took care of my grandson which was—he was born in 1956. I took care of my grandson and did this work and took care of my own home all at the same time and a I had a couple roomers in my home. They helped me with my rent and a then after my grandson was big enough so he could be left—I didn't do that anymore and then about 1965 I stopped doing any work for money and I moved here in the highrise in ‘68 and I got into the—into different things into volunteer work when they started the a Serve the ones that started the volunteer work and I worked for them until the R.S.V.P. took it over and I worked—I worked at the hospital every other week for 7 years and I have worked at the United Way for volunteer work and I have worked for the Office for the Aging and I worked for the A.O.P. Office, The Lawyers Reference and I was a cashier for the nutrition sight at the Y.W. for oh 6 years and a I've had to give it up because I didn't feel able to get back and forth to—to the project and I—the highrise I—I came in here when the apartment was brand new and I have been very happy here and it has given me more a chance to get to meet people and get out to do things and gives me something to occupy my time and help others and a I don't know as I know of anything more that I can tell you unless you have any questions you'd like to ask. Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could we go back a little bit and a tell us a what life was like in Lestershire when you were a little girl growing up and the changes that you have seen in the community since the early days? Helene: Well, when I was growing up it was—it's Johnson City now—but it was then Lestershire and I went to the Hudson Street school and I left my third year high school and went to work in E.J. office but when I was small I had cousins and we—we a had a big family and we were always together. The family was always together. We had good times and a if we wanted to amuse ourselves we had popcorn or pulled taffy or—or something like that we would play the piano and sing and we weren't allowed out at night until I think the curfew rang at 9 o'clock and we were supposed to be in by 9 o'clock and I can remember when if I was up to my cousins’ and I didn't get started home quickly enough and the curfew rang I was scared to death for fear the policeman would pick me up (chuckle) but I never did get picked up but a I always tried to be home. My folks were very strict with me and they tried to give me a good home and I had to mind my parents and I was taught that I shouldn't tell stories—tell fibs and not to lie and I should—should be kind to people and well as I say the—the a those times were so different from now I think but we thought nothing of it. I think that we were happier in our younger days than some of the young people now because before they’re 12 years old they've seen and had everything and we didn't. We went gradually getting things and so that when—and when we grew up there was still more things to take up our mind and our time and to for our enjoyment and a I was brought up to go to church and Sunday school and I thought I couldn't ever miss that was—that was one thing I didn't think I could miss prayer meeting or church or anything. I was brought up to live that way and a then when I worked in the E-J office I worked 10 hours a day 5 days a week that was from 7 to 6 and then on Saturday from 7 ‘til 5 and I got $8.50 a week and I thought I was rich (chuckle) and I gave my people $5.00 a week for my room and board and I used to think that well I was being punished that way but as I grew older I realized that my folks wanted me to know the responsibilities of handling money which I am very thankful for now and a I enjoyed working in this office there was about 50 girls in the office where I worked and I had—I did different jobs. I learned different things. I never was a bookkeeper or anything like that but I did—I did filing and I did orders and I did sample work. They made out samples with shoes and a I used to help on the inventory and when the First World War—I went out in the factories and sold Liberty bonds and I did I don't remember how many I sold at the time but I did very well. I did very well at that time. And a now that I see that E-J's have gone I—I feel very sad at times to think that E-J factories are not working anymore because they did so much for Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson City and a George F. built the libraries and started the libraries and the dinners for people to eat—where they could go eat and they did so much for us and we had our E-J Chorus. I was in that some of the time and a but as I say it makes me feel very sad when I go down to Johnson City which I was down there a couple weeks ago and I see how Johnson City looked it just made me sick. I just said to my sister, “Oh I can't imagine what's ever happened to Johnson City.” But I think it’s just the idea that E-J's have just gone out because the Johnsons are all gone practically and a so though the times have changed so well I'm glad that I'm my younger days were filled with the way they were rather than the times now. I think that my life was—I've had a very sheltered life really because when I hear the things that go on that I never knew existed before and I'm glad that I never did know cause I don't like the thoughts like that (chuckle) so I guess that's about all I can tell you right off hand now of what happened. Susan: Thank you very much Mrs. Weaver, it's been very nice talking with you. Helene: Did I do all right? Susan: Fine. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Helene Weaver Subject The topic of the resource Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America Description An account of the resource Helene Weaver talks about her childhood in Binghamton, NY, her father's meat market in Johnson City. She worked in an office at Endicott Johnson until she married. After her husband died Helene finds employment with the House of the Good Shepherd, in charge of the dining room. After retiring she volunteered at organizations such as, RSVP, United Way, and Office for Aging. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 63 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1a6b3a1fc4fb3e45eeee0a1ea4f14205.m4a a5d10e9b168478abf7d6e2d2d51e5f0d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Woodward, Shirley Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-08-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 48:32 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56055">Interview with Shirley Woodward</a> Subject LCSH Woodward, Shirley -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Historians -- Interviews; American Revolution Bicentennial, 1976; Town of Maine (N.Y.) Historian; Nanticoke Valley Historical Society; Broome County Historian Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Shirley Woodward Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 16 August 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mrs. Shirley Woodward, Town of Maine Historian, in her home at Union Center and the date is the 16th of August, 1978. Shirley, why don't we start at the beginning and find out where you were born and how long you have lived in this town here, etc.? Shirley: Well you may wonder about that because I was born in Florida, Gainesville, Florida. My father was a teacher, university teacher, and for three years he taught in the Univesity of Florida and I happened to be born in Florida. But he actually is from upstate New York, went to Syracuse University and taught there and then came back—after I was born—they came back and taught there for a while—and now lives in Auburn. Runs a museum there, he’s a historian, he was historian for Cayuga County for 25 years. He's retired. So—a I met my husband at Cornell and that's how I came down here, after we were married I came to this area. His family is old pioneer settlers. They came in 1800s to settle—one of them 1794 to this area. Wanda: In the Town of Maine? Shirley: Umhmm. Town of Maine in Union Center. This half of Union Center is in the Town of Maine. So—that’s how I came here. Wanda: So you had a pretty good—a background for—a developing this interest in historical things. Shirley: I guess so. I grew up in a museum, you might say. Our life revolved around a museum… historical…artistic and facts in the museum. And—a well I'm trying to think when I got started in history down here. That's another story, too. When our first child was born I was given a little baby book and in the baby book here's a part in the middle of it says: Parents, Grandparents, Great-grandparents. So l started to fill his out and as I was talking with various relatives and they would tell me about their parents and their grandparents, it just, I guess you'd say the bug bit me. (laughter). From there on I couldn't stop. And so I got into his genealogy dealing and of course being history, interested in history… The previous town historian here in Maine was a cousin of—a Gordon's mother and he was an elderly gentleman. Wanda: And what was his name? Shirley: Ollie Ketchum. Oliver, they called him Ollie. Oliver Ketchum. They lived right in the village of Maine and he had all the information right in his head. Anybody wanted to know anything, they'd just go talk to him and he would know everything and he was in his 80s or 90s when he died, and they were looking around for a new historian and Dr. (Clement) Bowers, who lived up in Maine at that time, happened to be a great friend of my father’s and he knew that I came from a historical family, I guess, and he knew I was interested and, I, of course, was going to the historical society meetings in Binghamton and I knew him there, so he…suggested my name. That was way back in early sixties. It was either ‘60 or ‘61, I’ve been historian that long. But I had to start from scratch, because there were no records. Wanda: Oh, the man had kept it all in his head! Shirley: They were kept…all in his head, uh huh. Yeah. Well— Wanda: —wasn't much of a help to you, was it? Shirley: No, but it's been fun collecting…and people give things to me and they will go either in the historian's office or in the new historical building. You know we have a historical society here in the Town of Maine called the Nanticoke Valley Historical Society and we've bought a house and fixing it up…should be open either this fall or surely by next spring…it will be open. And so a lot of the artifacts that have been given to me will probably go there. The—a documents and historical things pertaining to the town and its development along with the town historian's office which will be in the new town building when they build it. Wanda: Ohh, that won't be connected with the, historical… Shirley: No. Actually they're two different things. That's where the town historian has to be very careful of things pertaining to the town and the development of the town that are given to them as town historians go into town records and the historical society usually collects artifacts. Now a town historian does not collect chairs and plows and spinning wheels and things like that. That is the historical society’s business. Wanda: They're two separate entities. Shirley: Yes. And like the town historian does not collect genealogies of the town people because this, these are the people that lived in the town; this would go in the town historical society. Wanda: Then your main duties are collecting records, actually. Shirley: Town records, yes, and caring for the town records. Wanda: But anything you might collect, that would go to… Shirley: That would go to the historical society, like an artifact. Like if somebody gave me—a an old spinning wheel or something. This would go to the historical society because this has nothing to do with town records, but is something they want to keep in the town and, and they want to donate it. Now this is, you have to be very careful. Wanda: It's good that you have… Shirley: Oh, there's a line there. Wanda: …a cooperative feeling between the two of you. Shirley: Some town historians, everything they get goes right to the historical society or it goes right to the town and the first thing you know the town has got a, a museum in its town building and that's…unless they really want it that way. In a rural town they could do it, but in our town we don't want that. We want it to be separated.  Wanda: But there's a lot of—a lot of history in the Town of Maine… Shirley: You have to work together. Oh surely, surely. You work together. Wanda: It's an old, old town for this section, isn't it? Sirley: Yeah. Umhmm, 1794...first settlers were in here. They came to Union Center here this—a right here…in Union Center in 1790 & ‘92. The first mill…right down there on the creek… right on the creek was built in ‘92. Wanda: Is that where the bar is now? The… Shirley: Oh, no, ahm— Wanda: …one by the bridge? Shirley: Oh, oh, the bar? (laughs) Where the bridge is. Wanda: Yeah. Shirley: Yeah. Wanda: That must have been where the mill was then? Shirley: Yeah. And there was a sawmill there and a grist mill…rake factory and they were all very a well, Brazil Howard ran them and a this is his table… Gordon's grandfather. That chair there is his. Wanda: Brazil? Shirley: Brazilai. Good Bible name. They called him Brazil, or they call him Zilla called him Zilla—Brazilai, that's an old, old Bible name. So, well, that's how I got started being town historian. Wanda: What do you actually have to do—what—I know you do a lot that isn't required— (laughter)—but what does a town historian have to do, by law? Shirley: It's just maintenance, or caring for the town records or any records or pictures, photographs and records—written records—pertaining to the town. And now with the newspapers and things, you collect articles from the newspaper and file them away in folders under their—a headings. Like churches would be in one folder and schools in another and highway development. If an old house is torn down you get a picture of the old house and there'll probably be a newspaper article. Things like this, but there's no rule that says that you have to write articles or write history, or—a in fact you don't even have to do genealogy or any of this type thing. You just do it because you like to. Wanda: You get hooked into it. Shirley: But it's just really…you, you maintain the records and possibly gather new records pertaining to the town, that's…when there's a special event in the town…newspaper write-up, why then you cut it out and file it away. Wanda: Now this is separate from the records that the clerk keeps, like births and deaths? Shirley: Oh yes. Those are vital records, they have nothing to do with the historian’s office. Wanda: Then your main interest is in—a genealogy, I gather. Shirley: Oh yes, starting way back with the little chart in the baby book. Yes, we've traced o family, Gordon's family, the immigrants, Mayflower.  Wanda: And you've been doing wonderful things for the county historian's office, too. Shirley: Oh yes, we've been… I've been indexing records—a there. Making them available… I mean, if somebody has to come from California, they've got three hours to spend. And it takes three hours to read one census if it's…just to find a family. It's, well it's time consuming. But if it's indexed and they can look in the index and, say their family's in a certain town, all they have to do is go right to that town and look, look at it 'n then they can copy the original record and that's it. Wanda: Then you get these records from what—cemeteries and clerks, town clerks and that sort of thing? Shirley: Well—a, now the county records would be the census records and the surrogate records and the deed records. These—a these are public property. In other words, I say public property, they're, people can go in and look at them and research 'em. The cemeteries—I have collected 'em because they are important, but they have nothing to do with being town historian or anything. It's—a the cemetery stones are there, you go to the cemetery associations and they have the records…hopefully. 'Course there's a lot of them that are no longer in existence and records are gone and—a… Wanda: But all this goes into that genealogical file… Shirley: This, then is genealogical—umhmm, and—a church records—you go in and copy out the names of people, when they joined the church, baptized, married, deaths. You go into the old newspapers, which are on file in the Binghamton library on microfilm or in the Endicott papers, you've got them in the Endicott library and you read the obituary notices and the marriages in these papers, that’s genealogical. you can read the papers and the histories. The papers then were just like they are now, they had the local history and they used to have columns…who would come visiting. They don't do that anymore in the papers, you know, and it's, it's really sad, 'cause to me that's what a newspaper is—your local history and so somebody's aunt and uncle from out west is visiting and, I mean, you may not see them, but it's nice to know they came and visited…and hundred years from now it gives you a clue as to… Wanda: Where they were at what time. Shirley: Yes. Yeah. Oh they're so valuable. Of course they have vital records now which they didn't have a hundred years ago and I suppose it isn't necessary anymore to read the newspapers to find out who, who is having a baby and who got married and—(laughs) Wanda: But think of all the leg work you save for people who are coming from far parts… Shirley: Well that's, that's the reason for doing it… Wanda: …and trying to find these records. Shirley: …that's part of my job, is helping people…find the material. And the best way to find it is by indexing. Wanda: When did you start? Did you start this genealogical file at the county historian's office? Did you start that work when you were county historian?  Shirley: No, no. I had these files started long before, because I started with the Town of Maine— 'course you can't just do one town—you start doing the surrounding towns—first thing you know you've got the whole county done. But when, I started just with the local records then I began to realize how important it was and then I indexed the county histories because I was always looking…trying to find a name and 'twas, about the third time you read an article and you say, “This is useless, to read the same thing over and over again just to find one name.” So, you index it…and I just got in the habit of getting a historical book and just, as I went along, indexing it on little cards, 3x5 cards, just the name and the page number, then, then I'd stamp each card with a reference, name of the book and file them alphabetical and then—a a year from now when I'm looking up a surname, why I can go back and here's all these cards…this book on page so and so has got information of that man and this census on a certain page there's family information. Ah—on another book there's a write-up about his farm. It's—a, it's all indexed. Wanda: It's like a computer system, isn't it? Shirley: It is. And the newer historians now, in fact the county historians’ meeting in, in September, one of our lectures is going to be on on should you put things on computer or not? Wanda: Well how do you feel about it? Shirley: I think it's great. It's just that I've done it this way. So there's no need for it now…in Broome County. But—a for counties that have not done this and there's an awful lot of historians. I have gone around to several county historians and got them started. And I started them with the 3x5 cards and I got them started, set their office up so that they would do the same as I…I mean they come to my office and it's just so well organized… Wanda: It is. Shirley: I mean I'm not boasting, but it's just, just the way I have it organized. I just impressed them so, and I've had...county historians from all over the state...come here, look at the thing and then I have helped them set up their office. And…because records are useless without an index. Wanda: And using the same system with each historian is good. Shirley: And it doesn't matter what system they use, whether they put all their cemeteries in one book and have a master index to cemeteries and census in another book, with a master index. It doesn't matter. I put everything together. And one county I started, they, they did everything separate until they got quite a large collection. One day one of the fellas, I was there visiting. And he was setting up and says, "You know, we finally did what you did—put everything together.” I said, "I told you in the beginning.” He says, "Yes, I know you told me, but,” he says, “'We wanted to keep everything separate 'n it got too big.” He said, "I was looking in fifteen places," he said. "That got to be a chore." So he put everything together, all surnames together, you got all fifteen references right there in one little pack. (Laughs). So—you know how it is. Wanda: And it won’t be that much more complicated for somebody in years to come, too. Shirley: Umhumm. That's right. But if you put everything together in one master index and have it…in a file where you can keep adding to it without…taking pages out and putting more pages in, that would be a loose file. Wanda: Well you started this before...now how long ago? Shirley: Oh, I'd say around fifteen years. Wanda: When did you become county historian? Shirley: I was county historian for seven years, so, it would be, what? ‘71. I was appointed in January of ‘71. I'd been deputy for a long time. I—Robert Spencer was the county historian and—a he didn't care for genealogy. He knew I did so I, he would pass all the letters on to me— genealogy—and I helped him with other things, but genealogy mainly and then when he died I just, just appointed me, historian.  Wanda: And I hear you…did marvelous things for the historian's, historian's office while you were there—in reorganizing things. Shirley: Yes, well when I took over as county historian, it was, it all came to me in cardboard boxes and filing cabinets. And—(laughs) I said, “Now wait a minute, I can't have all this valuable stuff in my house." And—a between you and I… Wanda: You mean you were expected to keep it in your house? Shirley: Yes. Bob Spencer kept it in his house…all those years. He had a study—a bedroom—a study and—a here was all these boxes and boxes of stuff and books and things and ‘course I had two children at home  then. Each one of my bedrooms was full with a child, you know, three bedrooms and so the spare bedroom of course I had—ended up with the stuff in it. And I just said, "This can't be." And according to the rules and regulations from Albany it should be in the county office building. The county historian should have his records in the county office building —same with a town. They should be in the town building. And a, so I—see Ed Crawford was the supervisor at that time and I talked to him. And they were in the process of building the new buildings. And then he promised me I'd have a room in the new building. Well they got that all made and everybo—a the floors were all used up—with other people wanting to move over there, so I got a room in the old building, which was just fine. That's where the historian should be anyway—in an old building. And I had a very small room, but it could be locked and I—it was files one side and the other. You just walked down through the middle—you couldn't open two drawers opposite. You just—had to walk in there—and my desk was outside. Wanda: Where was that now, what part of the building was that in? Shirley: Oh—it was the fourth floor of th—a, of the new, of the addition to the courthouse. It was—the old executive’s office, really if you know where that was. Wanda: Mmhum—yes. Shirley: And—a the lawyer’s reference girl was there and she had her desk there and I had my desk there and then the records were all in the room that was locked. But I, I left the key with her because if anybody came and wanted to look in them she would…watch them, if I wasn't there. And it was, it was a nice arrangement. I could use her phone and so it made a very nice arrangement. And I got all the stuff out of my house. Oh, you should…they moved it, the county moved it. They sent a truck to Robert Spencer’s—a county truck. And they brought it up here and put it in the garage, gradually I got it in the house. And—a then they came and trucked it…back and so that was quite a job. I didn’t want it in the house. Wanda: No. It was very— Shirley: If my house burned, why all those things would be lost. Wanda: Yes. Shirley: 'Course if the court house burns they will too, but I don't think that'll burn.  Wanda: So then you moved from there over to the old courthouse, right? Shirley: Yes. Ah—one of the judges wanted to have that floor because there was a hearing room there, a big room. Court hearing. And so we moved over to the old courthouse then on the third floor of the old courthouse into a larger room, which was very much better. I'd been asking for a larger room for a long time and here…so they fixed up this larger room for me. But the lawyer reference girl and I still shared the room. But they put the bookcases in, 'n we chose the colors 'n I mean they just put the—the rug in and everything for us. It was, they were fixing it up but the way we wanted it. Wanda: It has a nice atmosphere. Shirley: And—a with the bookcases there, and, I asked for a small bookcase about half that size and when they come in and put all those big bookshelves there I thought, "Oh where will I ever find books?" But you know, you've been in there so…they're filling up… Wanda: They’re nearly filled, aren't they? Shirley: ...they're filling up fast. And—a all the cabinets there, there’s no room now for all the cabinets. They really need a bigger room. Wanda: Well I understand they are going to move into a separate…place. Shirley: I, I have heard that they're going to get, that he's trying to move into a bigger room. And that's great because he really needs a work table, for people to work on. Needs a—there’s some desks there, but only one person can sit at a desk. Whereas if you had a table you could get three or four people in a room. Most historians’ offices I go into there'll be one desk, but there'll be one long table with chairs around it people can work on. Wanda: You had volunteers that worked with you too, in the county. Shirley: The C.E.T.A., the C.E.T.A. girls in the summertime. And I would teach them how to type…and I would…teach them how to file cards…file them alphabetically and there's a lot of things to learn. And it's just little things, but I’m sure that some of the girls went on to much better jobs and the typing skills I'm sure, were… They couldn't type when they came to me and they…by the end of the summer they were real good. Wanda: And they had to be accurate, too. Shirley: Uh huh. Well, if they made mistakes they either throw the card away or start over again, or…erase it. But after a few weeks…you learn not to make mistakes, because that's a waste of time. And the—a volunt…the RSVP, and I never can remember what…Retired Volunteer Services—a whatever it is…RSVP [Retired Senior Volunteer Program]...and I've had several people helping me there. They would come in in the wintertime and I would teach them how to type the cards an , so they could come in and just—a I would leave their little chart. They had to sign in and sign out the hours and—a this was returned to RSVP because they're, they're not monitored, but they're—a… Wanda: Credited. Shirley: Credited, or whatever it is…they do. And after I taught them, why then they would come in. I, I would always leave their box of cards there to be typed and they would come in, do their hours and leave. Sometimes I’d see them, sometimes it’d be two or three weeks before I’d see them…again…where…but they knew the days I was coming in and some would be there on the days. Others… I’ve had one girl working there all last winter. I’ve only met her once. Wanda: Is that a fact? Shirley: Yeah. She comes in on Monday for some reason and Monday's the day I stay home and do housework. It's the only day, I save that for the house. The rest of the time I spend all my time on history 'n… Wanda: Well we know we have a new historian. You still will carry on this genealogical work? Shirley: I'm doing just genealogical work now. I’ll show you the files later. We'll go upstairs and see my files. Wanda: Is there anything else you could—a tell about being a town historian, Town of Maine Historian? Ah—how, how did you make out during the bicentennial year? That must have been a busy, busy time. Shirley: Oh, that year was a blur. I remember it, going through it, but that's all I remember, is going through it. It was busy, being a town historian, county historian. I don't think I did any housework all that year. I got meals and occasionally did a little ironing but that's about it. Wanda: Those things you can do anytime. Shirley: Oh, anytime, that's right. But it, of course, county historian we started about three or four years ahead of time planning and we had… I was an ex officio, bicentennial commission ex officio, there were thirteen members to the committee and then two ex officio. The county historian was one and the—a curator at Roberson…the other…ex officio. And—a so there were fifteen people and we'd get just about everybody out…there were two or three…there was always some that couldn't come every time and we'd…plans and each one would do their own thing. I mean I had…certain things I was in charge of and then…we'd make all these plans and then we'd go to all these meetings and then come the bicentennial year, we just went to all these things and we had… Wanda: Sounds well-organized. Shirley: It was organized. It was very well-organized and the two chairmen that we had—a, Michael Vanuga and Shirley Hess. You ought to—a interview them. While it's still fresh in their mind, the bicentennial. That's a…I hadn't thought about that. You know, we talked, the bicentennial, talked about interviewing people concerning the bicentennial, and right afterwards … and then of course the funding was cut off by the county when the new administration came in and—a so we…that's one project we didn't get finished, is the tape—interviewing people, specially on the committee and—a so maybe that's something that your committee could do. Wanda: That was quite a historical event. Shirley: Yeah. And—a, let's see, oh we had the quilt. I had people here at the house quilting for six weeks. I moved all the furniture out of the dining room and had the quilt frame in there and they would come…when they could and work. I kept, I kept a record of all the names and, and the hours and—a so we did that quilt and then we gathered fifty or sixty quilts from the county that went to this show in August. And we also, one day was Broome County Day up there and of course you had to supply the people to guard the quilts that day. And boy do quilts have to be guarded! You have to have people standing right there. Wanda: And that was where? Shirley: Up to Ithaca. Wanda: Ithaca. Shirley: And—a that was an experience. That was one of the things I was in charge of. Wanda: And the quilts were antique quilts, were they? Shirley: Oh and the antique quilts—and the new ones too. There was prizes for the new quilts. Wanda: It's marvelous to see these old—a crafts being revived, isn't it? Shirley: Oh, it's great, great. And I worked… they had a quilt up there … everybody who submitted—a quilts, all the counties, had to send somebody up to work on a quilt up there, during the week. There was a whole week exhibit and so there's a Broome County square. Wanda: Ohh. Shirley: Up there. And I submitted a quilt square and then helped with the actual quilting we did. And I learned how to quilt—real fast. (laughter) Since then I've made one quilt and I've got material for two or three others but I made one for my granddaughter. I made a genealogy quilt. Her name is on the bottom, her parents, her grandparents, great-grandparents. Instead of a flower design I made the names the design. I think it's in California. I didn't tell my daughter I was doing it. I just told her I was… Wanda: You mean the names are actually quilted into the… Shirley: Instead of having a flower or a line or a design, which you usually have on a quilt I… wrote the names and so that was the quilt, that was the design—writing, writing the name and the dates, and the place of birth. And I put a little heart on the bottom with the date of the marriage of my daughter and son-in-law. Wanda: That's really one of a kind, that's going to be an heirloom, isn't it? Shirley: And I promised my son that he'll have one for his progeny when he gets married. So let's see—quilts. Oh the other thing I was in charge of in the bicentennial year was the—a town historians writing their little pamphlets. You know, that we… Each town historian wrote a eight page pamphlet with pictures—a brief history of their town. And I had them all printed exactly alike. Different colors of the paper but you know, the same format. And then we had a cover made, we furnished a cover and it was sold as a book. People could buy it as a book or they could buy just the town, and this was quite a success. Wanda: I should think so. Wonderful idea because it's so handy for… Shirley: And the little booklets are in, in this cover separately. Wanda: …school kids to use. Yeah. Shirley: You could take… it wasn't all bound together as one book. In fact the idea was copied by several of the counties when they saw what we were doing they, they did the same thing. Their town historians wrote the little history and then it was printed by the same printer in the same format with the same headings for towns. Yeah. Ahm, what else did we do? Oh of course there were so many things going on in the bicentennial year. I can't even remember them (laughs) there were too many of them. Wanda: I can't. Shirley: Like the Freedom Train was here and, and the Barge. We had a big thing going at the Barge. Broome County was part of that. That was a three-county affair—four-county actually—it was four counties. And Broome, Broome County was a part of that. And I was, seemed to be the liaison for that. I was running up to Ithaca every month and meeting, planning that for a year. So I, I had a busy year. Wanda: Well the Town of Maine… Shirley: And the Town of Maine, and I was busy there, too… Wanda: …had a tremendous celebration, didn't they? Shirley: We sure did, we did it in May. And we had a three-day… I guess it was Memorial weekend, so we had the three-day holiday. We had our tour of the houses and the booths and 'n everything one has at a centennial…celebration, and everything in costume, of course. And we had a ball earlier, in costume. Gordon and I won first prize with our costumes. I was so, you know (laughs) I just…I shouldn't boast. Wanda: Did you wear family clothes? Shirley: No, I made them. Wanda: Oh, you made them. Shirley: Yeah. I made him a colonial suit and had the little short pants and the knickers and the coat with the old braid on it, made out of that washable velvet and—a… kind of velvet that can be washed. And I got a little piece of old polyester, but it looked like brocade, and made a vest for him. And what a time I had finding stockings, white stockings? You know, like they used to wear in the old days? Wanda: For men? Shirley: For men. Oh, I tried several different things. I finally bought some polyester and made these stockings and then right after, you know, I made the first pair. They had a seam right up the back (laughs) 'cause I had to sew them. And—a then I found a pair of knee socks… from Sears… white knee socks. 'Course they were for girls, so I got a very large size and they stretched and… that… they turned out just fine…but they went up over the knees. And they had to…because the, the stocking goes over the knee and the knicker comes down. And then I had on a blue—we were both in blue—and that's probably because we were a pair. And I had…I got—a, well what I used was lining, acetate lining for coats. And that's washable, but it's, it's shiny and it looks like satin, so I made my dress outta that. And it really, I was just proud of it. And I was very surprised when we, we got a prize for it. Didn't expect that. So that was then that I was on the—a when Tioga County had their ball. I was one of the judges. And Gordon and I went to the ball over there. We went to two balls. (laughs) Oh there was just so many things and… Wanda: As you say, it's hard to remember, isn't it? The activities that were going on. Every weekend… Shirley: There was something and all the different towns. I tried… and we had the… as the county committee, we had to—or commission, I should say. It wasn't a committee—as the county commission we had to, to really our job was synchronizing everything so that all the towns didn't have their event on the same weekend. And so we managed. I think they were all different weekends. Some of them, even with the rain, were postponed, but they still … were scattered throughout the summer, the spring and the summer and the fall. So we were able to attend… most of them, or some of them. Yeah, there were just so many things… going on. Wanda: Well, now is here anything more you want to say about the duties of a town historian, or what you, how you handled this at the same time? Shirley: Well the duties of the county historian and the town historian… are the same thing… It's just, it's main…it's keeping track of the records and keeping them so they're available for people to look at. And it's just constant collecting… from newspapers and… a town historian doesn't have that much because there's just a small entity. The county, I used to cut the papers every day because there would be something, somebody would have something going on every day. Wanda: You'd have to be a very interested person and you have to be also organized, don't you? Shirley:Yes. I'm, I'm pretty well organized (laughs) I, I'm not too good a historian, really, but I'm organized. I do know how to organize and that's, that's very important. Wanda: Yes, I should think so. Shirley: And these projects that I'm starting for the county should, for the future, should be really, really great if they're carried through and finished up. Wanda: Do you hope to carry on with the town historian's job now? Shirley: Well I… Wanda: Is it appointive? Shirley: Yes it's appointed…every two years. And the county job—I think that had to be every year. I can't remember. You just go in and you sign your appointment for the year. And if he decides to appoint somebody else, why somebody else does it. (laughs) But that's—a… Wanda: Well I guess if, if you have nothing more to add. Do you? Have anything else? Shirley: No. I think we've talked about everything on the list here that you—a… scrapbooks, you have on the list. These are very important because in the older days, see, we don't have the newspapers. Wanda: Yes. Shirley: But people themselves would cut scrap, cut scraps! (laughs)... Cut articles from the newspapers, making a scrapbook. And—a people nowadays don't do that so much anymore. Wanda: That's true. Shirley: And—a so these old scrapbooks will have family information, or they'll cut out a wedding with—a you know, or an obituary, or something that's going on in the town and there'd be a nice write-up on something going on in the town and—it would be in that scrapbook. And these are valuable because they just aren't available, that information isn't available. Wanda: How about photographs? Shirley: Oh they're very important. Wanda: Do you have them donated? Shirley: Oh sure, they donate them. People have them and—a sometimes they don't even know what they are, so they'll bring them in and get them identified and then maybe—a building is now gone. Roberson Center really has got a, a much better collection of pictures, but they've been doing it for years. Historical society. And a lot of the pictures and things like this go to Roberson and this is where they should be, I think. I think the county historian should take care of the county records and the current events for future reference. And the old pictures and the old collections and the artifacts and the…oil paintings and the rocking chairs and things like this, they should go to Roberson. Wanda: You were telling me the other day about—a writing down some of these—a inscriptions on tombstones? Shirley: (laughs) Yes. Wanda: Do you have any interesting things you want to put on tape about those? Shirley: Ahm—I have, I really haven't done much of that kind of work myself. You see the D.A.R. went through and copied all the inscriptions in the 1920s, but they didn't copy the new ones, just the old ones and in the 1960s the Mormon Church decided that the cemeteries were disappearing, the stones were going, you know, breaking and pollution from being moved and so they, knowing that these were very valuable, and they sent their people out and each…they just, there were teams went right out and did all the cemeteries. And they would take the D.A.R. records and then work from there. Or they would do the cemetery and then we would compare the two because a lot of stones would be gone. The D.A.R. just copied the very early ones. They figured after Civil War there were census records and vital records and things, so the cemeteries weren't, records weren't quite as vital. But the Mormon people have copied them right up to current times. So… I don't have too many stories to tell about cemeteries, but I, I get all my fun out of the census records, indexing the census records…because the sense of humor of some of these people. They—a there's two or three favorites I have where the census record would write down the family, the mother and the father and then start with the children and they'd get down to about eleven or twelve or thirteen and the last one's name was Enough! Or… I found one that the last one's name was Last. So here's a little kid goin' through life with the name Enough. (laughter) And there's one I found in Binghamton on—he must have been very proud of the fact that he was in the War of 1812. He was, I think it was in the '70 or '75 census. He was in his 90's. No, it was the ‘65 census, that's right, because hey were—a, there was a whole separate category in the ‘65 census on…the—a Civil War…records. So, for the last five years any man that had been in the Civil War, why he, he wrote down what his regiment was and when he served and if he was wounded or not he told about his wounds and if he was killed in the service there was a record of where he was buried. I mean, he family knew this because it was taken in ‘65 right at the end of the war. And here was this one man in his nineties and he served in the Navy and I was reading along and I said, "Goodness, a 90-year old man serving in the Navy!”—because there were Navy people in the, that was in the Civil War. And I stopped in the very end there and his term of service was 1812 to 1813. (laughter) And then I had another man who served in the Mexican Wars and here it is that he told about his service in the Mexican Wars. And the Indian Wars, there was one man in the Indian Wars. Most of it they just got in the Civil War, but every once in awhile they'd strike somebody that was an older person and very proud of it and it was written right down—in the census. Wanda: Rank, name and serial number, eh? Shirley: Umhmm and then the one, the one man that—a I copied out of the '75 census… and the enumerator… had written, they put a star by his name or a asterisk, so I looked down at the bottom in the margin to see what he had written. The man was in his seventies and his wife was about forty and there were about ten or twelve children living in the family. So it says, “This man was the father of eleven children by his first wife and nine by his second and with the prospect of more.” Wanda: Oh no! Shirley: Right in the census records. Wanda: Twenty kids and the prospect of more. Shirley: And the good prospect of more. So you never know what you're going to come across. One census-taker, the last family in the book, it had, it had an eighteen year old girl in it and her occupation, see he put down their name and where they were born and their occupation. Her occupation was “my intended,” so evidently this was the girl he was going to marry. That was her occupation, was “my intended.” But there are, when you're copying records like this… and the names, too. I have a whole list of them upstairs I—in fact in the 1830 census I copied a couple off. His name was Jack, last name was H-a-m-e-r Hamer, jackhammer. (laughs) So I kept a…list of those things. Wanda: I should think so. Shirley: You just, you just never know what you're going to come across. And they weren't afraid to put in anything, either. If they were just living together it was right there. If they weren't married, they were just living together. Wanda: Yes, I remember coming across a census record where the man was called a thief. That was his occupation. Shirley: That's right, or a convict. That was his occupation. In all the copying I've been doing for the last fifteen or twenty years I have found one horse thief. Wanda: Admitted, eh? Shirley: Yeah. He was a convict and he was convicted for—a stealing a horse. Wanda: Did that happen right here in Broome County? Shirley: Umhmm. And you go through the Poor House records and the—a Asylum records. A—the—a… Wanda: Inebriate Asylum? Shirley: The Inebriate Asylum and all of…the occupations, everybody in there was doctor, lawyer, insurance agents. You go through the jail and they were all Irish and they were in there for, for brawling…for alcoh—or drunkenness… 'cause when the census-taker we—on that day, he had to do who was in the jail. ( laughs) Wanda: Monday morning was probably all drunkards. Shirley: Oh boy. And the hotels with the—a men and women—it's right there, you know, all… Wanda: There were so many things I wanted to ask… Hotel records, ahm are those ever preserved? Do you ever have anything like that, come down to you? Shirley: Well they should be. Ah, I found one in the county—a not too long ago. I was going through some things from a… a hotel. It was a ledger of the people who were in the hotel. It was rather brief, some of it was after 1900, but it should be saved. Wanda: Oh yes.  Shirley: Who knows, who knows where they are. I mean, maybe they are in Roberson, like the Arlington Hotel that’s gone. I have no idea where those… records are. Maybe the family has them. Wanda: Well you'd see some very famous signatures on some of them, I'm sure. Shirley: I'm sure there would be. But that… I mean it's nothing to do with the county historian's records, so that…this would be Roberson's job to… find out where they are, and get… kept… preserved. People are giving me, ah, old school books and the ledgers and the records of the old school places. And it's all right because—a they'll be saved, but if they gave me a desk or something like that I would say "no.” Wanda: Well, I hope you carry on with this wonderful job that you're doing. You're just exactly the right person for it, too. Shirley: Well thank you very much. Wanda: Thanks for the interview and your time. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Shirley Woodward Subject The topic of the resource Woodward, Shirley -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Historians -- Interviews; American Revolution Bicentennial, 1976 Description An account of the resource Shirley Woodward speaks about her  father's influence on her interest in local history, work as the Town of Maine historian and with the Nanticoke Valley Historical Society. She details the responsibilities of her work as the town historian. She discusses her years as Broome County Historian and her efforts during the bicentennial, as well as the nature of her work and how it impacted the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 64 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/b4d90ba1e9c94c5c2e6d1042172dc847.mp3 5c447201f92ca6814b58f595563085ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Templeton, Lena Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-02-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13:26 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56039">Interview with Lena Templeton</a> Subject LCSH Templeton, Lena -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pleasantmount (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Ansco Company -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers Dance class Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Lena Templeton Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 1 February 1978 Susan: Mrs. Templeton, could you tell us a little about your early beginnings, where you were born? Lena: I was born in Pleasantmount, PA, on a little farm. A–and I lived there ‘til I was about seven years old. I started school there and the school teacher used to live with us during the bad winter weather, which we had piles and piles of snow in those days. We lived down there and my father used to hitch the jackass up to a little sleigh and we would go to school through the woods and then he’d have to come and get us and it was a one room school house and uh just sometimes the fire was out and we would freeze ah it was really something. Well, I went to school there a couple of years and and–ah then ah–my family–we moved to Pleasantmount in the village. That was outside about 3 miles where I started school, so we moved to the village and my father was in the livery business–raced horses around to the fairs and ah–I went to school there–a–I went to high school–I was in the eleventh grade and my father he moved to New York State. Ah–was working for a realtor–oh Mr. Hoffman and they had a lot of land up to Conklin and they said they were going to fix it up and that lasted a few years and a when I was–a–18 years old I went to work to take care of twins and I stayed there nine months and then ah Dr. George Fox, a skin specialist in Binghamton on Main St.–ah–he wanted me to come and take care of the office for him. They had no nurses those days, you know. They they took care of their own. So, I went there and I was there for 5 ½ years. So, when I was 24 I was married and still around Binghamton and had four children–had twin girls and I a got married of course when I was 24 years old. And something interesting too, my father-in-law came over from Scotland, Ireland in a boat and I can't tell how many–a weeks or months they were coming over but just in an open boat. They came over from Scotland, Ireland and I never did see him but ah it is ah my father-in-law used to tell about what a rough time it was and that it was a miracle that they made it you know. At that time there was no transportation by water. That was a good many years ago. Well, I brought up my family and went to work at Ansco's. I was 42 years old and it was during the war and I ah loved my work. I did everything. I did packing. I took a man's job at one time as stock girl and I did perforating the film ah but the last 12 years there, I was a group leader and I enjoyed it and I missed it when I retired, very much. I enjoyed the friends I made and a it was a good place to work and it was those days a lot different than it is today. I started out at about $25 a week and when I finished up I was making better than a hundred clear. So–ah–that a was a very a interesting work and I made a lot of friends and I still have them so now I ended up retired and working here 8 years and I–really my life's not too interesting. (chuckle) Susan: Well, it’s nice to–to be useful and that you’re helpful keeping house for this gentleman. Lena: Oh and he appreciates it a lot. You know, one of his daughters is married to Dr. Gilmore. Susan: Oh, did she? Lena: Yes, that’s her coming in now. Susan: Where does he practice? Lena: Oh, he’s had a heart attack. He’s not practicing anymore. They’re in Florida, they’re just up here for business. That’s his wife. That’s his daughter—they don’t come too much. Susan: Mrs. Templeton, let’s continue when you retired from Ansco. What you did with your life? Lena: When I retired from Ansco the first year I was lost for something to do so I took up dancing took lessons for a year and I enjoyed it so much. It was something that I wanted to do all my life and a we traveled around and put shows on here and there and a it was very enjoyable and I use it now I feel so relaxed and free if I go out now, you know, I’m able to do most all the dances. And then I was–a–just a by myself and I thought there is something I can do. So I watched the paper–they wanted somebody to come in to take care of an elderly couple so I started down there and I enjoyed it and a I’m still there. It will be 8 years this month that I have been here and it gives me something to do and it’s very satisfying to think that you’re helping somebody each day. Susan: And now I don’t think you’d mind telling us how old you are? Lena: No. I’ll be 77 April 27th. Susan: Well, that is wonderful. Lena: Ha–ha–But those dancing lessons, I really got a lot out of them. You know my daughters were so happy when I did it. All my life I–I wanted to I could dance, but not really good you know. But a–we went all over Elmira and put on dances. We had a ball. We had dance frocks and I felt so elegant. And you know, if there is something a–a–if there is something in your mind that you’d like to do–you have the opportunity to do it, it’s good to do it get it over with because you’re so satisfied with yourself that you accomplished it you know. Susan: That’s right. Lena: You’d be surprised those senior citizens how beautiful they dance just marvelous and some of those old ladies they’re in their 80s, they can just step around there like a feather beautiful, do all the new dances, the Bump. They do everything not just the waltz and foxtrot and what have you. They do everything. You should see it would be worth it just to go over and see them. Once a month they have a dinner and a dinner dance and they have live music, you know and you’d be surprised to see them, it’s really marvelous. Susan: Well, I think I am going to make a point to go and watch some of the activities since I have been talking with people. Lena: Sure, you just enjoy watching them. I haven’t been up recently. I had a bad knee. I had bursitis in it and I didn’t get–I got into work and back but I didn’t take in any of the you know–activities. I went to the State Hospital every month like that, but a– Susan: Is that part of your voluntary work in the community? Lena: Yeah–uh ha–yeah. Susan: What did you do there? Lena: Where? State Hospital? Susan: Yeah. Lena: We took refreshments there were about five or six of us went up a and that was from the Moose Club. We were members of the Moose Club and we took refreshments, sandwiches and cake and we–a–played bingo ‘til nine o’clock and then Easter we gave them a party, Christmas we gave them a party and in July we gave them a big dinner–half a chicken, watermelon and baked beans and salads. You never saw such a happy crowd in all your life. And we have about 75-80 of them that are able you know enjoy it and play bingo and what have you. It was really–is satisfying when I first went up there it was kind of depressing but now, I wouldn’t miss it for anything because when I go home I feel so good. They are just such happy faces. When you go there they are all waving at you you know and if you have different jewelry on they’ll say where’s your cameo, where is this or where is that you know they really are–they really are so happy to see you and some of them they–they you know aren’t able to come but that picnic–they look forward to it. They are talking about it for weeks before we go up there. If it’s nice we have it outdoors, if not, we have it inside. But that’s a big job. We fix the chickens at the Moose Club you know and take them up in roasters and we fix salads and watermelon usually–they do love watermelon but they have a ball. They feed them good up there but there’s things that they don’t get you know. They get good substantial food you know but not–not any goodies up there that you ordinarily get at home. So, I really was busy before I came to work but it’s like my daughters say to me, you know they kid me a lot they say, “Mother you know what, it’s gotten to the point where we have to make an appointment with you in order to get you on the phone or anything,” because I’m never home. Susan: Tell us about how you go bowling with them. Lena: How I go bowling with them? Susan: At your age. Lena: Oh well I bowl once a week and I bowl with my twin daughters and two granddaughters and we have a ball. I look forward to it every week and I’d miss it if I didn’t go. It really is relaxing and no matter how tired I am when I bowl I feel relaxed. I go home and I feel like a new person. It’s always been that way. I bowled when I was at Ansco’s too you know so I don’t bowl as well as I used to but we’re second place we were last year so we don’t mind. Susan: Well, you certainly have been a very active woman in the community. Lena: Yes, thank you I have and I was active when I brought my family up too you better believe it. I had twins and I nursed them 8 ½ months without a bottle and did my own work and had one 2 years old at the time too so I had three babies. Susan: Well thank you very much for the interview Mrs. Templeton. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lena Templeton Subject The topic of the resource Templeton, Lena -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pleasantmount (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Ansco Company -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers Description An account of the resource Lena Templeton talks about her childhood growing up on a farm in Pleasantmount, PA and her early education, and eventually moving to New York state. She discusses early work taking care of the office of a skin specialist in Binghamton, NY then getting married and having children, and finding work at Ansco's during the war. She details working at Ansco's including tasks she performed. She speaks about her interests and activities (dancing) as a retiree and her volunteer work in the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 60 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/2d88dcbc075c3590201e5300ecb15684.mp3 45766cc8ea0ebe8f3f4b0c182e86cc23 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5c6c0986d64fd5fecbded9f85552e596.mp3 3d8d0b791a9349be14ef12b7b37ee24d https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e2d3bba7b9fa4fb6ba6a4ce9932fb2ed.mp3 2e9b32af2a2edf305b37e569cb4c31bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Alston, Matthew Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-30 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Alston, Matthew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Musicians -- Interviews; Orchestra; Jazz; Photographers; Discrimination; Arlington Hotel; Bennett Hotel Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:09 Minutes ; 12:25 Minutes ; 33:29 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56058">Interview with Matthew Alston</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Matthew Alston Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 30 January 1978 Wanda: Date is the thirtieth of January. Don't know quite where to start here, but I would like to have you tell me something about what your life has been like. Matthew: Yes. Well, in the beginning, the reason I tried so many things, and I worked at each one of those things to make a living—now—because at the time I was coming up, it was hard for a colored man, no matter how smart he was, to get into places, you know. And he had to be twice as smart as a white person to—ah—get a chance, you know. That's the only way he could get into some places. Well, now I figured that—ah—in school I would have to learn as much as I could, and if I had the same intelligence, you know, on the same level, as a white boy under the same conditions, I should be as good as him in learning something. And that's what I did, I—I learned to do pictures, I learned to paint houses, and I took interest in everything I did to do the best I could, you know. And then I—ah—there's a friend of mine that—who was in school, and he played a recital one day, on the violin. And he was about fourteen years old. Well, that got me for music. So I went home, I says to my Dad, I said, "Gee, Clinton can play good." I said, "I wish't I could take violin lessons."  “All right.” He bought me a violin. So then, ah—Professor—ah—from Owego there—what the heck was his name? Ah—Houck*—he, ah—he, ah—took—I took lessons from him. And I learned to play the violin, and then I, I after that developed into a, when I got older, into a—a leader of an orchestra I had. I went overseas and I came back after the First War and I had two boys I picked up over there that could play. Wanda: Were you in the Army then? Matthew: Oh yes. Oh yes, that was—in the First War. And so we—they wanted to stick together. They came from New York. So we formed an orchestra and—first five men and then ten. I played at the Arlington Hotel, the Bennett Hotel, and I played, ah—in Montrose every Thursday, for the college boys there. I played up in Ithaca and went all around like that and I grew up to ten men. And [laughs] that's what my violin lessons did for me. And then I wanted to take pictures. I found out something about pictures and— Wanda: Tell me how you started in photography. Will you tell that story? Matthew: Yeah. [chuckles.] Well, anyway, it's gonna be funny. I don't know whether I should let this out or not. I—uh—I never did see anybody take pictures, you know, and finish 'em before, and I thought it was quite a mystery about that. So I—ah—was working for some people. They had—ah—ah—ah, Barnum—it was Barnum's—they used to have a—a grocery store up on, ah, Chenango Street. And a little house, a little yellow house on the corner of Doubleday and Chenango was theirs, and then they'd go to Florida every winter—and they—and I was going to school too, up on Robinson Street at the time. They wanted me to—I mowed the lawn in the summer, so in the winter, when they went down there they wanted to keep the snow clean and keep the fire goin' so the place wouldn't freeze. And one day she wrote and told me to clean up the attic, and put things aside that I thought she might need and so they could be thrown out if she didn't. So I did and I came across a camera. First I came across a couple of boxes of negatives, and at that time they didn't have—ah—celluloid. They were glass negatives—glass plates, made outta glass, And there was no film around other than the glass. So a friend of mine, older than I was, he had been taking pictures and I took them up. And Brownie, he worked for the telephone company, you know. And I says, ah—"Ernie,” I says, “I found these up in the attic."  And he says, ah, "Oh yeah."  And I says, "Gee, this Mr. Barnum must know a lot of colored people in—in Florida."  He says, "Why?"  I said, "There's a picture. There's two girls standing up and an old man, and they all have black faces. And the girls have long black braids, you know."  And Brownie commenced to laugh. He says, "Yep," he says, "I'll make some tricks tonight." He says, "Come up to the house after supper." And I went up and he had an old-fashioned—printing, you know, and developing. You didn't have to have, ah—all these darkroom lights and everything, and had that open-faced—ah—open flame gas, no mantle, just those you turn up and down, you know. And he says—he took me up in the bathroom and he had some emulsion he put in that dish and he had a little, a little lamp, one of those stinkin’ little old lamps they used to burn oil. And you'd smother inside of a small place with it, and every now and then they'd burn an’ smoke up the place, you know? And he come out and he'd hold the—put the negative in the frame, put a paper over it, and then he'd close it up and he come up and bring it to his chest, and he'd turn it to the light and count so many seconds, then put it back and then go around and develop it. And he was developing, you know, and he says, "I want you to pay attention to this, Matt."  And I looked and he says—ah—I says, "What is it?"  He says, "Now watch it change," he says, "I'm a magician.”  And so it commenced to develop, y’know, and it commenced to come up, y’know, and it come up all white, so I says, "Hey Brownie," I says, "They're white!" He says, "Yeah," he says, "that's a positive,” he says. "Now—ah," he says, "this is a negative." Then he showed me the negative with black people on there like this, y’know.  So, I thought he tried to be nice to me. I thought he didn't want to say, “Negro,” or anything like that. He says, "Negatives." So I said, "You don't have to be so nice, just tell me what they are, see?" He says, "They're negatives." He says, "So, so when you put a negative to a positive—papers—positive,” he says, "and then you develop it," he says, "it's just reversed. What's black is white 'n what's white is black."  And I says—I studied that—I said, "Well, I just have to take pictures." So I started in doin' that and I learned a little of that—and then I wrote back and told them what I found. And I found a little Colony camera—that's, oh, it's worth a lot today. It's an old—one of the first Ansco cameras they made here. Wanda: Colony? Matthew: Yeah. C-O-L-O-N-Y, Colony. And, ah, it was made o’ wood and had a rubber bellows and it had a lens on there with a cap. You had to take the cap off and count and put it back. Quick—like that, y’know. Wanda: For the exposure. Matthew: Ayuh. Because the emulsion in those days was very slow—very slow acting—y’know, it wasn't fast and you'd just take it off, put it back on there like that. And, ah—then comes the—ah—flash light. Magnesium powder. And y’see, so you get out the first time with that and I take a little bit in a spoon and put an’ on the flash—a little spoon, little pan, y’know, and you hold it up with a handle, an’ there's a little wick, you hang down an’ light it an' wait a minute and it'd go BOOM and the explosion makes all o’ the—smoke up the room, y’know, and everybody used to jump outta their skins. And after you got through takin' ’em, y’know, you'd look at your pictures. If you had a group there'd be some with their eyes shut, some of them open, and some eyes starin' out—it was a mess. So you have to ca—take about a dozen pictures to get one good one. Because they were scared to death. And I says—I went to a dance one night, and these women had dolled the place all up. It was on the top o’ the old Herald building. You can put that down if you want to. Wanda: Herald? Matthew: In the old Herald building on the corner of State an’, an’, ah, Washington. I mean State an', and Henry. It's where the Army—no wait a minute, it isn't now. It used to be the post office? You know where the old post office—they call it old post office now. It's on the corner of— Wanda: You mean the Armory—where the Armory was? Matthew: No. No. This building is still up. It's that big building that they—that they have on—on the corner, you know, where Berger's is? Wanda: Mmhmm. Matthew: Just opposite Berger's. You know that big— Wanda: —Oh yeah.  Matthew: —Army or United States Post Office. There was another one, it was about four stories high and—it was, they used to, ah, they had—they printed a paper down in there, y’know.  Wanda: The Republican Herald? Matthew: Mmhmm. Right there, across, rather, on this side—where Berger's is. And right across there, where the Post Office is, there was another building almost like that. And they used to have dances in it. So this—these people, they had—they decorated—all the fancy stuff up in there, y’know—and drapes hangin' down. So I said to the boy that was gonna hold the flash, I says, "Get it away from those paper things." And I said, "Don't hold it too high. Just about that high." And he lit it. And it went phhht-BOOM and it hit one of those drapes and it went all over the—everything was burning on the ceiling at once, and the women were runnin’ out and they wanted to kill me. I said, "Oh, I gotta get my camera an’ stuff." Me an’ him, I was scared to go back. But I got some good pictures. And, ah, they said I was for damage and—I was in a heck of a fix, y’know. Well, that's the kind of pictures you took. So after that explosion comes from the flash, everything gets all foggy, and you had to let all the windows up an’ fan the smoke out— Wanda: —the smoke! Matthew: It'd take you ten or fifteen minutes before you could take another picture. Honest to God, that was something. And any time you held one up and says, "Look at that beautiful negative!” and you had to drop it on the floor, and bang, your negative's gone, see? Wanda: Of course. Matthew: All cracked up. So I—that's how I got in it, and then I sent to, ah—the, ah—the New York, ah—let's see—it was a photographic—ah—school in New York City at that time where, ah, you know—ah—you—a correspondence course. Wanda: Oh. Matthew: And it's still in business, I think—the American Photography, that was it—way back there, and I took a course in that to improve myself. Then I went, I took papers, at one time I took some papers—oh, a fellow that was a—a photographer on the Morning Sun. But they might’ve sold—in that same building there now. He, ah—he had to go away for a vacation, and they left me, wanted to know if I could take pictures, ‘cause I had the best equipment in town, y’know, at that time. And I met Mr. Kilmer an’ his horses an’ things, and I took some pictures and had them in the paper and, ah—Oskewanna. I think they had one horse there by the name of Oskewanna. He was a favorite, y’know, and I took a lot o’ pictures of him, see, that I took down at the old—ah, fairgrounds in—ah—Endicott. You know, where that, they had a race track down there an’ ball games an’ everything. It was—oh, I don't know, years ago.  And now to show you how they were, y’know. The guards was up against there, y’know, where you had to go across the track. An' the only place, the good place to get to the track at the finish was right on that side, right next to the—ah—judge's stand, as they came through. So I tried to work out a way to get over there. When I was young I was an athlete—I could jump, y’know, like that—and I had this big camera, and I went up an’ said, "Will you let me cross, please?" "What are you doin' here?" I says, "Look, I gotta get in to take pictures." I says, "I got a courtesy card from the Morning Sun." He says, "You aren't workin’ over here." So—all the other guys was goin' over, y’know—so I walked down that way and I jumped the fence and I run across the track, an’ the horses were comin' and they went, "Matt, get outta there—go back!" And you see, we had the cameras like this—a line of boys takin’ pictures, you know, and ah—three of us, tracks was here, so you would—ah—as soon as the horses'd come close to you, you'd take a picture an’ you'd swing back and let the guy behind you get a chance. I was the last one, see, back here, and the horses hadn't got up to the grandstand—I mean the judge's stand, y’know—so—huh—I swung over and I got—[laughs]. Well, they, they put that in the paper an' all that stuff, but—ah—so that's what prejudice did, y’know. It made me do things. And then I started to paint houses. No—I—I—drove a truck for Jameson-Boyce and, ah—and I get off from that and I started—when I was on it—to paint houses, and then I—that's the chance I had for—for playin’ my music, y’know. For dances. We got dances everywhere around here. The old—it was—we used to call it the Dixie Jazz Band, if anybody will remember that—y’know, and we put all the other guys out o’ business and they, they wanted me to join, y’see. I don't know whether I should—do I sound prejudiced? Huh? In the speech? Wanda: No. Because I can put myself in— Matthew: Well, anyway, like I'm tellin’ you—when I learned, that's how I came to do so many things. And I thought I was just as good as the next guy—if I had the opportunity. And I had to make a livin' because when I grew—I didn't know I was gonna get this old, but I learned I need to make more than a dollar a day, y’know, so ah—they had a union here and when I come, I said to the, ah—Dimmick—he's the one, the head o’ the union—music, Musician's Union—I says, "Look, I've got an orchestra," and I says, "It's gonna be good," and I says, "I want to be fair, everywhere," I says, "so I'd like to join your union," y’know. And he says, "Well, I’ll look about it." And it went on for two months. I'm still playing, you know. So one of the guys come to me, he says—one night—he says, "Matt, I'm sorry, but," he says, "you can't play around these places here unless you—” Wanda: —What?! Matthew: "—join the union." I says, “Don't tell me that." We were makin' more money than they were. We were gettin' a—ah—two dollars for the first hour and a dollar and a half each hour afterwards, and that's all they were getting, see. And we'd get more because we had more time, and sometimes we'd make as much as fifteen dollars a man a night, see. That was good money, in those days. So—ah—I had three boys, the piano player and the drummer and a boy that played a—a mandolin, see. Wanda: And it was jazz. Matthew: Oh, it was all—all, we had a fifth guy. 'Cause I was in New York City for about three years before the War, and I went from there to War and then I was—that's how I got to playin' good, y’know, with bands. And not—cut out the high-tone music 'cause I couldn't make no music—ah—no money. And when—so I went overseas and when I came back, I brought back—ah—one white boy and two colored boys. They lived in New York and they were in the same camp, y’know? And they came back and so we formed the orchestra. And then Bill Jeter, here—he, he died not so long ago. He was, ah, he was our piano player. And—ah—Marshal Moore, he was a drummer, so anyway we went, we played up to Greene, y’know, every week, and this night they wasn't givin' to the music. And I said, "Look, boys," I says, "These people pay as much as anybody else, and I don't care if you're so tired you can't keep your eyes open. You gotta play just as good for them as you could anybody else."  And ’e says, "Well, you know, we don't have to—play. In fact, we shouldn't play with you." They was all colored boys there, y’know. So one o’ the white boys down there that belonged to the union let ‘em in—one at a time, see—and told 'em not to say nothin' to me about it. And I says, "Whaddya mean?" He says "We belong to the union and, ah, they just let us play tonight." And I told them where to go. I—I was mean, y’know. I was tough, see, but I was tough as they. I told 'em just how fast they could get there without me helpin' 'em. And—ah—OK. Now here's where the trouble comes in. They played a month or so. And what you do—you've got an organization here, a union. Now you've got a band and he's got a band, and you call up and say, "I need a trumpeter." Well, one of the boys that's out of work gets the job. "I need a drummer." And so forth, y’know. Well, what happened, they was getting these—ah—drummers, y’know, and other guys from the white outfit, and the colored guys would be out o’ work, they wouldn't let you. So this one boy, one time, happened to be—ah—comin’ in, and he stood out in the hall waitin' a little while, y’know. And the doors was open, see—and, ah, let's see—and so one o’ the white boys says—whaddya call ‘em? He says, "I don't—-why you wanna hire them niggers?" he said. "Don't forget," he says, "There's more people in the orchestras. Them damn niggers, they're gettin’ all the jobs." So this boy gets mad. He told the rest of 'em. And I didn't know about it 'til later. So, I'm up on—I'm painting houses now, y’know, and I didn't work out of my trade, and so I'm up on the corner of—ah, Pearne and, ah—Chenango Street. Joseph's Brothers had a—had a—a store there. Wanda: Oh yes. Matthew: Remember? Wanda: Yes. Matthew: Well, I'm up there painting, y’know, and I look down on a hot summer day, and there was my orchestra down there, pushing those hot irons around with wooden shoes on and—and the sweat comin' off of 'em, and tar. That's the time—they used to have asphalt for roads and they didn't have the machinery. They'd do it by hand, y’know. So I looked down and I says, "Ah—hah-hah-hah," I says, "Look at the band down there." I says, "Whaddya doin'?" I says, "Boy, are you guys hot!" You know. Oh jeez, they all run and hid. They didn't want to—look this sorta thing, so, so I went down an’ I said to one of 'em, I said, "What happened?" "Well, like you said, they'd put us outta business, and they have." And then he told me. He says so, then they didn't have no work and they wanted me to come back, and I says, "No." I says, "No.” I didn't want to have nothin’ to do with it. Ah, my—my grandfather, see, on my mother's side—was a Cherokee Indian, see. I've got three bloods in me. I've got a—I'm Indian and English and, and Negro. My father was a dark man, see. And when those—you know—touchy bits up there like that, you get mad. I don't know anybody anymore. Anybody'd ever do me—and it's easy—anybody that ever done me dirty—I could forget them. You know I—I don't make up. Some of them I never made up, see. And they know it, see, so I told him, I says, "We got along fine an’ I told you that would happen, because," I said, "I know the, ah—ah—the ideas that these men have around here. They just wanted to get you out, see?" And I says, ah, "Serves you right." I said, "We get along." I said, "I went through it like a man." And I told 'im what was gonna happen and I says I have an idea, because we had the new jazz, everything that was comin' up from New York, y’know. This one boy had a clarinet and the other one played the piano, y’know, and they were hot stuff, and me—I was—doin' everything—[laughter]—you know, and we—we got all the jobs, y’know. I—I—had worked up to ten men then.  And here's a funny one. All o’ the pictures I took—everybody's in it but me. They say, "Where were you, Matt?" I took all the pictures, see. So this one girl that, ah—Bill Jeter died about a couple of months ago, and his daughter came from New York here, and she said she has quite a few pictures now that I took of the orchestra at that time, and she's going to send me a couple of 'em, see. Then I'll have my own, but I'm still not on them. [laughs.] So that's, that's one way that I had to learn everything. And I put an interest, now. If you see—you see that camera book there? Wanda: Um hmm. Matthew: Well, that's one I bought, oh, about four years ago. I take a book like that and I read it through. And nothin'. It's just like mud to me. You know— Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: I can't get it, read it through again. In the meantime I'm—I'm practicing with my camera. Wanda: Um hmm. Matthew: I put the book down about—maybe three weeks later, on Sunday or something, I pick it up and start to read—everything comes right out like that, you know, you can't—you can't learn things—in one day. Wanda: Right. Matthew: I can't. Well, when I get that done, then you ask me anything and I can tell you just what's on that camera, what it'll do. And then I go ahead an’— Wanda: It's up here. Matthew: Sure. Wanda: Your computer is OK, isn't it? Matthew: [laughter.] I think it is so far, but once in a while it changes, when it gets stuck there, y’know, and I go to think of something—it just don't function right away. After a while, if I wait long enough. Now like, like there's a young lady that I knew in New York City. This is way back in nineteen-hundred and, ah—well, just before the War I met her and—she was a very nice-looking colored girl, and her name was Catherine and I couldn't think of the other name. I just laid there—think—and think and think, this morning. I don't know what made me think of her, but anyway, I did, and ah—"Sullivan." Because she had a name, you know—that was an Irish name. She was a colored girl. So, as I said that—I put it together. I said it's nothing that I could call a Johnson or Jackson—now that's a name of another race. And so I just like to do—and that, that was over—since nineteen and—and sixteen, I guess. So you see, the function there, comes after a little bit. Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: Now there's a lady, you want to ask me about her. See that nice lady there on the table? Wanda: Oh yes. Matthew: I don't know whether she's dead or who she is or where she lives. I've had that for fifteen years. Now—here's what happened. I used to take a lot of portraits, right—I lived—I had two big rooms and I took all nice—portrait pictures, you know. My daughter's got all of the—junk over to her house. And I went lookin’ around. I used to go down to the Volunteers and Salvation Army to buy frames. 'Cause they were expensive. That frame—she was in that, y’know, and I took her home and she looked at me like that, you know. It—it just—I thought to myself. You take a look at it, take it up close. Wanda: It's beautiful, isn't it? Matthew: Uh- huh. And I said to myself, "Jesus, that nice lady, I can't just take her out of there and tear her up or throw her away." And everybody thinks she's my wife. [chuckles.] I said, "I don't know whether that's an angel or not." I said, "That lady might be dead for a long time," but I says—ah, I just couldn't throw her away. You know I didn't want—because that, ah, frame—I coulda used the frame, all right. But I says, "No." And she looked at me like that, y’know, and I said, "All right." Isn't that silly? Wanda: No, it's not silly. Matthew: Anyway, I got an aunt, two aunts, that—that—they're real Indian, y’know. And, but she—she looks like, like, like one o’ them. Aunt Lou, she's dead now. You see my, my grandfather William—now they're talking about the Roots,⁺ y’know. There's one of my cousins—I guess at the same time this guy started Roots—and he lives down in Jersey, so he came up and he, ah—his mother was my mother's sister. See? One of her sisters, she had five of ‘em. So he come up out of New York and he says, "Matt," he says, "What—ah—what—name some of the people." Well, he tried to find—so I named him some and he says—ah—he wanted to get 'em. Now, my mother's father, he came from England, and his people—cut him off, because they called him the black sheep. He—he was one of an Englishman that wanted to get out and come here and have, do things, y’know. Of course they had a—crockery ware. And, ah—his name—their names were Webb. His name was William Webb. Wanda: They had a crock—crockery? Matthew: Well—they had a—a—crock—like, like crockery wares, y’know, dishes and things like that. Wanda: Umhmm. Matthew: They have a—either wholesale, or they manufacture them. I don't know what it was. Mother used to tell it, y’know. And, ah—so—I—ah—their names were Webb. They were William Webb’s. Big tall man—he had this long mustache. He looked like those, ah—colonels that they have in England, y’know, those—ah, yeah, like that. [Laughs at the suggestion of a monocle.] And so they, they, they threw him. He—he said he didn't care whether he saw them anymore or not, because he came to this country and he turned out to be a carpenter, y’know. He liked that trade. And he must’ve learned when he was young and he grew up to be a—a good carpenter, and he, ah—oh, ah—came home and told my grandmother, one night, Mother said, that he thought he fell off the scaffold where he was workin', y’know? No, not him—the fellow that was his partner—fell off the scaffold—and died. And she said it was two weeks after that—that he fell off the scaffold, and when he went down he hit his back on—on one of those tombstones, y’know? And, and he died. Broke his back. Now maybe—these days they mighta been able to do something for him, y’know? He died. Well now, he left a son, my mother's brother. And he was a handsome guy, Junie. Tall and he looked just like his dad, y’know. And, ah—he, ah—was a fireman. Years ago, y’know, they didn't tell, they couldn't tell for sure who was—y’know—what he was, see? He was an Englishman, that's all. Ah, and my uncle, y’know, I wish I had some o’ those pictures to show you, he was a handsome man, And, ah, so that's how I got mixed up. So my—they—they got some, ah—some stuff in this tree. But I think they got it mixed up with an oak tree, or something, but anyway—they couldn't put some of the limbs back. So—that's some of those things that went around, y’know, and now to show you what a nice job—a different job I had—ah—I—you know—prejudice is an awful thing. You know, they had the medical depot up here— Wanda: Yeah.  Matthew: You know where that was? Wanda: Umhmm.  Matthew: OK. A man downtown that's supposed to hire you and send you there. Regardless, see. It was a government job. So I went up there two or three times and I filled an application out and he says, ah, "I'll let you know in—in a week." A week'd go by, and I'd get up there and I'd go up and I'd see him sittin' right in the office there. And, he was up in the, ah—now let's see if I can get this filled in right where he was. I think it was in the, ah—the—the building on, on Chenango Street where the, ah—the first, ah—Union—I mean, ah—not Union, but, ah—ya had to pay your taxes—where the taxes were—in that old—in that building where—where the, ah—gas company was, see? Over there. Well, anyway—no. It was across the street, where the—where the loan place is. They opened that up for government work, y’know. At the time, y’know? Right across? Well anyway, I got tired of being run around. So, I knew a girl that was a typist down there and I said to her, "Hey look, I made a mistake on my, ah”—you know, ah— Wanda: Application? Matthew: “Application.” I said, "Can I have a couple of them? Better give me two so if I won't make a mistake." Says, "OK," so she gave me two. I took them home that night. I'm married, too, now, you know. And I wrote on it. Filled them out. Front and back. And the next morning I says, "I'm going up there." So I went up, and you had to have a—ah—notice from his office before you could—y’know, they had everything guarded and you had to have it to get in. So I happened to go up to the picket. It was easy, y’know, and I'm walking around, and I walked up there "biggie" like—I thought I was gonna get throwed out, see, but anyway, I walked up there that morning, y’know. And so I says, "Hi, fellas," so he says, "What fella?"  I says, "Hi, Frank." He says, "Hiya, Matt. What are you doin' up here?" I says, "Well, I come up to go to work, but I just have a paper like that, y’know. Goin' to see if I can get a job up here and go to work." And, ah—he didn't even look at me, y’know. He says, "Go ahead," So I went in. So here was a little Frenchman. Up on the steps in the Administration Building. And, ah—he come up there and he says, "Can I help you?" I says, "I'm lookin' for a job, and I have my papers." He says, "You have?" And I says, "Yeah." "Well, what do you do?" And I says, "Here's my application." So down in there it says, ah—freelance photographer and experience in, ah—printing and developing and so forth, y’know?  "Ahh—just the man I want. I need a photographer," he says. "You gonna get a job."  I says, "Why?" He took me right in, you know, and he says, ah, “We got nothin' here, but we'll take care of ya." And I happened to have about seventeen hundred dollars worth of equipment, you know, of my own, see? And he says, ah, “Maybe you can't do no work right now,” but he says, "We—we can fix some way." So what I had to do, the first thing, was to take the pictures of—ah—thirty-six hundred people that worked there, y’know. That the—ah—numbers and everything. And I had a camera that could do that, y’know. And I brought it up. So that, and I had this—two bulbs that—hundred-watt bulbs, you know—put 'em there and I made a frame. Everybody'd sit there and I was workin' and I was developing them—every night. So the next morning I could have a string with the numbers on, see, that I took, And I got through with that, so—they finally sent down a couple of things and got my stuff in a truck, see? Brought it up. And this guy comes in there one day and he says, "What are you doin' here?"  I says, "Me?" I didn't know anything. "Me?" He says "Yeah." Says "I'm workin' here." "What are ya doin'?" I says, "I'm takin’ all the photographs here. Big ones and little ones." "Why, how'd you get that job?" I says, "Just on account of you not puttin' me through." I said, "I've got what it takes to do the job and the Frenchman is not prejudiced." And I says, "Right away, he was lookin' for me but I didn't know it," I said. "Where the hell did you get the papers?"  I says, "I stole 'em up there one day." I says, "I'm workin' now. What are you gonna do about it? I work for Uncle Sam and you can't fire me—for nothing—if I'm handy an’ I'm workin’ for Uncle Sam. I got the job—signed up," I says, "You're outta luck."  Wanda: This was government work, right? Matthew: Heh? Wanda: It was government work? Matthew: Yeah. And, ah—I had to fill the application and everything, y’know. If you work for the government, you've got five or six people that don't like you. They're trying to get rid of you. They do everything—they can't do it. You gotta come to a—you know—a court hearing to find out why. They can't just say, "Oh, kick him outta here." That's one thing about government work, you know. You've got to have a real good reason. Wanda: Civil Service. Matthew: Yeah, and I was so mad—y’know—I used to box and wrassle, see. It was so hard for me to keep off that guy, you know. And, and I didn't want to spoil it because I'm gonna beat him up, then you know, they—[laughter]. So I had to take that for a while, and so every time he'd come back—so the Colonel says to me, Colonel Dowitz, his name was, ah—and he says, "Matt," he says, "Tell ya something," he says, ah, "We haven't got the room that—that—ah—you want, but," he says, "here's a place you can fix up." He says, "I'll get the carpenters sent over." A carpenter come—"Whadda you want?" I had two big, big—I didn't need all the rooms. I had two rooms—as big as these two together, more there, and then the Monolith machine, y’know. Did you ever see them? Wanda: No. Matthew: Well they're, ah—they're machines that you work that, that run a lot of paper like a mimeograph machine. Wanda: What did you call it? Matthew: Monolith. Then, and, and so I made even plates for that. And, and, they had a big machine in there, that they—you know, you go downtown and they have, ah—records made of some papers. Years ago it cost 'em eighteen hundred dollars for the machine, you know, and I learned to work that. Wanda: Photostat machine? Matthew: Photostat machine. Wanda: I used to run one of those. Matthew: Did ya? How d’you like those things? Well, I'll tell ya, well, this, this one, I think it was eighteen hundred dollars or something like that one, and I got out on—this guy came down one day and he says, "Whaddya doin'? Now." I says, "I'm makin’ some—photostats." "Where'd you learn?" I said, "Look, Mister," I said, "I can't tell you all the colleges I've finished—" And I used to “bull” him until—[laughter]—he believed everything that I'd tell him. After that, you know. I said, "I can't begin to tell you how many colleges I went through—for this stuff." And ah—at the time, these were really the best of the things that I liked in my life. And I took pictures of my kids all the time, I had a little fella that big. His mother dressed him up nice one Sunday, so I says—he's my big son, one of my big sons now—he says, ah—I says, "Hey, Louie," I says, "Let Daddy put you on the table." Every Sunday I was takin' pictures like that. I got a lot of 'em in a box that my daughter's got—so—they wouldn't get lost, you see? Because—I had some kids break in my house—one time, and all the beautiful pictures I had—of street-cars—and everything—from way back—they just—gouged them all on the floor, you know. Well anyway, I says, "Daddy'll give you two cents for a picture."  “All right.” So he stood with his hands behind him, one foot out, you know, lookin' nice. I took one and I says, ah, "Well, now Daddy'll take another one," I says, ah, "because maybe that'll be good." "Daddy—two pennies? Two pennies?" That little rascal—he was six years old, and yet—he was toutin' me. Not ready for school yet, anyway, but, and he's tellin' me, "Two pennies, Daddy. Two pennies." [laughter] Sorry. I said even if he was panning—he was usin' his brains all the time, y’know, just like his father. Wanda: Did you—you do much landscape photography or scenic stuff, too? Matthew: Yes. I did a lot. I—I—wish't I—let's see—I—I—I've got everything put away, but I've got, ah—slides, you know. Wanda: Oh, we, we can go into that some other time. Matthew: Some other time. Yeah, I'll get some out then. That's all my daughter Charlotte and I'd do, we—ah—we went, ah, around every, ah—day that we had off, and we’d go and then there was one of the Foster grandmothers, she likes being out in the woods in the country, so we'd take her and a friend of hers, and she says—in the summer, ah—two years ago she says, "Matt," she says, "Beautiful day out," and I said, "Yeah," I says, ah, “We get out at twelve o'clock, y’know," I says. "Well, let's go down and get a hunk of bread and a baloney," and I said "We'll go out—I'll take pictures." And I took a lot of pictures. Oh, I—old broken-down barns, y’know, with the humpbacks. One of 'em fell down and, and I knew it was an old barn and I could see the pegs were in there holding it up—the—beams about that big, y’know, and, and all these years—it was over a hundred years old. And I had a feeling. "Matt," I says, "that's only about a hundred twelve—fourteen years old.” And—and there was no bolts in it. A great big barn, put up there with these—ah—pegs, wooden pegs, y’know. Wanda: Wooden pegs. Amazing. Matthew: Umhmm. And then I've got pictures of old folks, y’know. I'll pick out some slides, and then I'll let ya know and then you can come in and— Wanda: I'd love to. Mr. Newcomb is interested in—in seeing some of your— Matthew: But. That's all I'd do. You know I—did—oh, I'd spend a lot of money with different ones who didn't have nothin' to do and they had a car. Five, six dollars worth of gas and we'd ride, and then, ah—she used to say to me, "Where'll we go today, Matt?" And I says, "Just—just get goin'." And we'll stop and get this an’ that an’ the other, and then we'd come back here and it would be very, very—why, it would be night, y’know? And here I'd go down. I'd go north, here, and what do I see? The sun is shining on this side, see? And then I take all the pictures, on this side the river, we'll say, going all the way up to—to—ah—oh—ah—Oxford, there. Up that way. Now, in the afternoon, to get—I'd cross over and come down the other side, and the sun is in the west—start in on that side. And that's what I had to do. So I went in—the morning—and we'd go up and up until about two o'clock, anyway, and go one side and take, and then, then we would always go on the old roads—on the back roads, you know. Oh, I enjoyed that. We got fooled one time. I'll show you, maybe, someday. All right. I went to a place up—above Oxford, there—where they had a civilian camp, you know. And they had this fireplace which was wide as that machine [the stereo] and it went up like that, and off the ground was that big, where they had the fireplace, y’know. And, ah—they had great big stones, they were stones about that big and they were cemented in and there was nothin' but the chimneys left—with the fireplace in there. All the rest of the buildings had been cleared away. And I says, "Gee, I've run into something." I—got a lot of slides, y’know, and I came home and I had 'em finished up. Because I don't do that 35mm stuff, y’know. Not now. And, ah—so I had 'em all done, y’know, and I said, "Gee, I've gotta get the history of this." And—everything was gone, you know. It looked—and everybody said, "Where'd you ever get this? Gee, where'd you get this?"  I said "Oh, I don't know—it's some place George Washington fooled around in." I says, ah, "It's upstate here.” So—one of the guys—I went up there one day. I was deer hunting, y’know, and I went up there to see him and ask him if he wanted to go out and take me someplace. And I says, "By the way," I says, ah, "There's two big chimneys here, and,” I says, “a big fireplace." I says, "Boy, that must be over a hundred years old." He says "Huh?" He says, "Whadda you mean?" So I told him where. "Ah, man," he says, "Boys put that up during the Depression.” Wh—when they had the civilians, you know, had the boys planting trees. Wanda: C.C.C.? Matthew: Yeah. [laughter]. I says, "Boy!" But you see the hundred in, ah—ah, Latin, isn't it? Wanda: Yeah. Yeah. Matthew: So CCC would be three hundred years old. Wanda: Makes a good story, anyway. Matthew: Yeah. Well, I was excited. Wanda: Well, of course. Matthew: I says, "They must have—baked people in there when they got bad or somethin’.” So I was—the fireplace was—this long, you know, and then the chimney came way out and up like that, and out of this side—it was huge chimneys, y’know. But, but they, ah, wasn't built right down low, it was built up about that high. You know, with a fireplace you'd freeze to death. Y'ever been in a house that had a fireplace—years ago? Wanda: Yes. Matthew: OK. When I was in Jersey, my aunt had a house, so—one at a time we'd stand up there or sit up there—and your face burns up, y’know, and here and your back is—freezing. You turn around, put your back to it an’ you freeze your face. [laughs]. You know, I used to think, "Gee whizz.” I never have been in one before, y’know, but down there, they lived out in the country when I went to visit. Well, up here we always had stoves and ranges, and my aunt—"Well, Aunt Maria," I says, "How do you keep warm all around?"  She says "You keep turning around." I liked that place because they, they had a—ah, well, there was a kind of canal—nearby. About as far as from here—oh—halfway down the building, y’know. And ah—high w—the water come in there when the tide raised, y’know, from the ocean. And we could catch crabs in there at night— Wanda: Oh my. Matthew: —and—turtles that big, see. So one night we—ah—we heard ducks. Ducks are crazy, you know, they—on moonlit nights they, they walk all night long catching frogs and things, y’know. Wanda: I didn't know that. Matthew: Ducks, you can find ducks, ah—walkin’ around, you know, at night. And the lawn went down, sloped down to the river. So one night we heard, "Quack, quack, quack, quack." And I got up an’ looked out and there was a turtle—almost, about big around as a basket, there, ah, you know— Wanda: Bushel basket? Matthew: About that high, and he had this duck backin' and drivin' and the duck was just— [END OF TAPE. They caught the turtle and made steaks of it.] [BEGINNING OF TAPE #2] [Mr. Alston brought out some of his photographic equipment, and he and Wanda spent some time inspecting cameras, lenses, etc.] Wanda: This is your Speed—Graphic? Matthew: Yes. Wanda: B. and J. Press—that's an oldie. Matthew: Yeah. See, I can use this because I've got, ah—whaddya call it, plates. Ah—I ran that off the track. Wanda: Just let me look at it. Matthew: It's heavy. Wanda: Yes it is. Kalart? —Matic Rangefinder. That's a classic, isn't it? Matthew: Oh, it is. Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: And I got the lenses upstairs. You know, I never get—I can start talkin’ on cameras and I can spend a whole week.  Wanda: You never get tired of them. Matthew: No. Wanda: It's like some people like to play with cars. Matthew: Yeah. And there's a lens that's two hundred and fifty dollars, just for the lens. Wanda: Projection? Matthew: We can use that on—on a camera, too. See these lens boards they made? The—they're supposed to hold a 16mm Kodak. Oh, I've got three or four of these around. But you see, unless you can sell them to somebody that's got a camera like this, they're no good. Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: And it's better to use these now and then. Wanda: Oh, it is? Matthew: Oh yes. Because they, they get tired, y’know. I've got a few pictures here, I picked up when I took— Can you get it on? Wanda: No. Matthew: Well, pull it right out. Wanda: It's off the, the track. Matthew: Put it way back in there. Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: Now see if we can get it on the track. Leaning a little bit—easy—wait a minute. Now pull that in there—are they on the track? Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: There you are, now, y’see? That's a little extension bellows on there. And a lock there, see. Now— Wanda: Oh yeah. Matthew: That's—bring it all the way out, y’see? Wanda: And you could use these for copy work and everything. Matthew: Oh yes. And you see, you get the same size—as your picture, when you copied. I like to copy a lot, but now—you know—I never— And so then you take this and you lock it, see? Then it goes through, wait a minute, then this, then this. And there's a back on this, see? And, ah—this? See how it goes? Wanda: That's a beauty. Matthew: Umhmm. Wanda: Do you have a darkroom now? Matthew: Well—I make one out of the bathroom. I have a table to fit over my—a toilet bowl with legs on the side, and then it goes right across the wash basin, so it, ah—it comes in quite handy and I've got everything—that I need in there. Wanda: You can do a lot with a little space, can't you? Matthew: Oh yes. Wanda: What are your pictures there? Matthew: Here are some, ah—here's a couple o’ my, my daughters up at the park. Wanda: Nice. Matthew: And this is down at the old State Armory—ah, you know, the one on Washington Street at the time? Wanda: Oh—oh yes. Matthew: And this is Derek—that's my son. He looks just like that—you know—he was just that size when he said, "Two cents, please." Wanda: That's a cute little thing. Matthew: This picture I took up in Syracuse, it's a—one of the buildings there. Wanda: You said you had one of the last horse-drawn trolleys? Matthew: Here's three of my kids— Yeah, with the horses. I went down—I haven't got it there now, but I went down to a—I didn't go to the Traction Company. I went down where the—Exchange on Court Street, and they said all those pictures—somebody took 'em. Change the office, there you know—I gotta go down there and see. He said some of the guys, you know, put out word to see if I could get one for you. Wanda: Oh. Matthew: See, they've changed, that's—this is a— Wanda: How come people are so careless with things like that? Matthew: Yeah. This. Another one. And there's a—let's see. See, I took pictures of the kids all the time. Every time I'd turn around I had a picture of them. Now there's another one. Here's a pic—you want to got down to—oh—ah—oh, you know the one. Let's see what it says here. Wanda: The Speedex? Matthew: These, I just happened to grab while I was upstairs here. Wanda: Ah, I wonder if— Matthew: See, I did all these—I finished all these myself.  Wanda: Yeah. Well, how did you get your—job that you told me about? Working with the insurance company and the— Matthew: Well, I don't know, I got it. Every time I went downtown, you know when I go now, I gotta—one of those cases, y’know? Wanda: Like this? Matthew: No, not that thing. Oh ,it's like—like on the davenport, I guess. Well, anyway, I'll show it to ya. I—I'd go down and everybody took me for a veterinarian or a doctor, and honestly— Wanda: Because of your camera case? Matthew: Yeah, ‘cause I had it in my hand, see. And I had one guy, says, "You know, I see you all the time with that thing." It was never away from me. I always had it—in case of accidents and things, y’know. And he says, ah, "You always got it there. I thought you were some kind of a doctor or maybe a veterinarian." He wouldn't say a medical doctor, he had to put me in a vet—with the horses. Hah. So that's what you had to put up with, see? I'm not good enough to be a medical doctor, but I, I could work on horses. Ahah? Well, people are funny. I, it don't bother me, I get a kick out of it, things people say. And there's two ways to focus this, you see? Now you put that on a tripod, you see the footage here? And then, see this little marker? Right there? Oh, right here. Wanda: Yeah. Matthew: You wind it up there—focus—like that—without takin' it out. Wanda: Hmm. Did you have any connection with Ansco? Ever—did you do any work for them? Matthew: The only thing I did for them, I taught some of their workers how to enlarge or develop. Wanda: Hmm. Matthew: They came to me—it was just a short course of about a—maybe six weeks. One—one or two nights a week if you wanted to come. You see, to fill out an application there it says, ah, to get in this department—ah—“Did you ever have any experience in, a—enlarging or copying,” something, and "No." So they'd come to me and they get the experience, then they go back and fill out the application, they get the job. So I go down—after I'd been doin' it for quite a while, and I apply for a job with the office there. Got talkin'. And I told him, I says, "You know I—helped a lot of your—your workers out.” He says, "You're the man." I says, "Yeah." He says, "Well, gee, ya—did a good job on it."  I says, "Well, now I wonder if there's any place for me down here?" I says, "I've done most anything in that line." "Oh no," he told me. "How old are ya?" I says I was about 45, 50, ya know. He says, "Well," he says, "you're beyond the age. We don't take men over 35." There's always an excuse. I says, "I know a lot,” but he says I'm too old now. Y’know. Well, he says, "We—we might let you know," he says. "Anyway," he says, "You're willing to work?" He says, "There's a lotta room in the warehouse." I says, "Whaddya do?"  "Oh—move racks around and, you know—and sweep or—sweep up the place."  I said, "Go to hell, will ya?" I said, "I know more about this than half of your guys in here," and I says, "You want me to sweep?" I said, "I don't, don't do that for nobody." Wanda: Rug beater. Matthew: Yeah, sweep up—oh boy. Wanda: How can you laugh about things like that? Matthew: Huh? Wanda: How can you laugh? Matthew: Because it's funny. I go there, y’know, like anybody else, and then they give me that stuff, but—but they seem to, they seem to learn something. You see, now, in the Army—they had a little place up there—“If of African descent, tear this off." Nothing on the other three sides. That's to classify you. Without any trouble, see. So I left mine on. And I had trouble—tryin' to—get back to bein' a colored guy again. [laughter.] I didn't tear it off, see? That's a fact, see. Now my boys, they, they never had that. They're light, most of them, y’know. They're like their mother, y’know? And, ah—well, you see the youngsters here. So we never had much trouble in the family. But I'm telling you—my time comin' up, they was tough. Born in 1892, so you know, that's close to the Civil War finishing, and then the Spanish-American War come in, y’know, the Japanese war—years ago, see. And—I mean the Philippines—years ago—in the United States, and as I say, that just went on. When I first went in the Army—they had a—unit for colored boys. You know, I say “colored” because, ah—the Black man that's as black as—? An’ like that, that's all right for him—he's a Black man. But if he had—if he wasn't color-blind—there's all colors. Red, yellow, blue, green, orange. Wanda: That's right. Matthew: So—I—I—I just resent it when somebody says I'm a Black man. I says, "You're color-blind." "Whaddya mean?" I says, "Don't try to supply me with a Black man.” I says, "You call me ‘colored,’ and like it." "I see your point." I said, "Yeah, well, see my point," I says. "Just be a little, you know, ah, decent with these guys." Says, "You don't want to—?” I says, "I've known that since I was born," but I says, "Don't try to classify me like this, 'cause,” I said, "That guy, he's Black and he wants to beauti—he wants Black to be beautiful." I said "OK," I said, "If I was Black, OK, but," I said, "I'm not black." And I says, "What color are you?" And he says, "Well," he says, "you can see." I says, "Yeah. You're a white man, but do you know you're white?" I says, "You didn't follow your dad around, or your grandfather? You don't know what little Black sister you've got, or little Black brother you've got, somewhere in the world." I says, "Now, don't be so—quick to jump up and call somebody what they are." I says, "Look—I know a lot of people—that passes for white—nice people. And I don't blame them because you get a better—opportunity, see?" And I says, ah, "Your father and mother told you was a white boy. You're gonna remember that. And that's what you're gonna be, see? Nothin' against you, but,” I said, "a colored boy is born, they tell him he's a colored boy. So he knows that, and everybody else." So I said, "Whenever they—they mix them up so that you can't tell a white boy from a colored boy," I says, "then it's come time for you to go and study something, because you—you don't know who you look like, for an instance—that are runnin’ around this country." Some of 'em get mad and some of 'em don't, but I don't care. They don't want to belittle me, you know what I mean? God made me and He made them, and He chooses to make me different than them—that's why He give me a brain—I'm gonna use it. And that's whether you're white or Black, I don't give a darn. See I—I've got—look, I'm invited now into a party—or not a party, but a wedding—of a—white girl. Very nice, and ah—she's gonna get married in St. Paul's church on the eleventh. And I'm invited and I'm taking—Suzanne with me, and then the reception, it should be in—well—up in Chenango Bridge, I think they said. Wanda: Oh, the Country Club. Matthew: Yeah. And I'm always in places like that. Now when I was a kid, the firemen would have a—a dance. The colored guys—”Now—? They don't want you there." I says, "Look, you know a lotta people there. You know some firemen there." I says, “All right, get a ticket an’ go." My wife and I went to everything and there was no—as I said, it depends on who you are and that, you know. But you don't want to be timid. You know what I mean? Because there's somebody knows you there and you're gonna enjoy—yourself, see? So I'd buy a ticket and, ah—bought a ticket to the Italian, ah—the dance they used to give down to the Knickerbocker Hall. You don't remember that—that's down on the first—you know where Henry Street, way down towards the river? Wanda: Yeah.  Matthew: Well, you know that building right next to it—Knickerbocker? They tore that down now, see? Well, anyway—ah—these Italians—I used to have two or three Italian friends, and they hired the hall. So this one fella—Joseph—he, he had a girlfriend and she had a sister, and we were all in school together—so he says, ah, "C'mon, Matt."  So I says, "Sure." I wasn't married then, see. Well, I was a real Indian. I had paint on my face and I had a big Indian outfit, a—you know—ah—big feathers? And I had, ah—pants—you know—buckskin with fringe on like that, an’ moccasins? And I used to do an Indian war dance, so they—they—ah—we waltzed and waltzed and danced together, an’ I danced with everybody. They don't, they don't know me—I got war paint on, see, and Joe, he was a—oh, a—a warrior and I was the chief. His girlfriend was a—was a squaw, and this sister and I—she was Columbia—you know, dressed like Columbia, like that. So after the dance and the grand march was over, they took me aside, and Joe and the two girls, and we had to waltz around and then they took ya outta the bunch, y’know, and there was this guy up there, you see. [Impersonating an Italian accent] "I tell you," he says, "Indian man. Big-a Chief. He's-a got-a first-a prize for men. Little-a papoose, he's got a, he's got a, for a papoose he's got a, got a prize. He's—a girl, he's-a call um a squaw and she's got a prize, a second-a, and the Chief, his-a wife, she's got a nice-a prize." So everybody took off their masks. Says, “An’ everybody, now, take-a mask off, please." So I just kept a, I kept my bonnet on, y’know, and I didn't, ah, or didn't wipe my face off too good, and then after the first few—I wiped it off good and he says, "Aw look. Attsa nice-a boy," he says, “I know that's-a Matt-chew—a-Matt-chew." And everybody went, "Look!" and I got—they wanted to know how I disguised myself, y’know? So I got a—I got a shaving kit and a mirror off here and a stem down here and a base, and it had on here—a cup for—you know at that time we used that— Wanda: —Oh, shaving cream with a brush— Matthew: —a brush. I hated to fool them, but that was the only time it ever happened, and the firemen—they had a hall, and it got so everybody knew us, you know, when we went down. And the funny part—we used to waltz, see, they had waltzes on. They had prizes and like that. My wife says, "I know that man. I'll tell you why," she says, "Hey, would you look at that shirt? The poor man needs a button."  I said, "People are human," I says, "so—the farther you stay away from them the less they know about you." But I said, "You mingle with them and be around them, they come to know you. And if you're different than the other ones," I says. "Everybody has got to have fun," I says. “They sell me their tickets, and," I says, "I'd sue 'em if they didn't let me go up there and dance." Well, that's how we had our fun. My kids are the same. Wanda: You have a wonderful outlook on life. Matthew: Well—I have to have it if I'm going to be happy. And now I go to work, you know what I mean? They say, "How—how do you get along, going like that?" I says, "Look," I says, "I let the day take care of itself. Tomorrow I don't know what's gonna happen. When it comes, then I know what to do.” I says, "Why should I worry about what's gonna happen tomorrow?" I says, "So that's the way to do it," I says. "You don't have to do what I do, but," I says, "that's the way I figure it out." And that's a fact, because you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. You know today. Wanda: Thank heaven.  Matthew: [Laughter]. Wanda: Do you work with children all the time up at B.O.C.E.S.? Matthew: Yeah, I do want to tell ya. Instead of taking my vacation—I go up to the, ah—other place up there—to the Broome Developmental—those little ones up there, and they're—there’re some mongoloids up there and then there's a lot of, ah—deformed kids. They're all in wheelchairs. There's six hundred altogether—some young ones and up, old ones up to twenty years old there. They live there and they take a certain bus, go to—they're active and they can, ah, understand. They bring them up to school in buses, to B.O.C.E.S.—different grades. Wanda: And what do you teach them? Matthew: Well—the teachers up there, women, they teach, ah—ah, the little ones, ah—oh, ah—how to read and write and so forth, y’know. And once in a while we jump in if—they've got a few that we help out, that it's a little too hard for them, y’know. Bring 'em up and then, ah, we don't teach 'em a full course, y’know, but we teach them crafts. Something they can do with their hands, you know. And like—ah—I teach them to, ah—braid, you know, pocketbooks. [Matthew shows a hand-made wallet.] Wanda: Oh. Somebody did this for you, huh? Matthew: Yep. And, ah—they got spaces in there, you know, inside for the, oh—ah—well, you know—stuff there. And I, quite often the—I got the one there—the doctor—I gotta go to him tomorrow. Every now and then, when I get examined, see, I go to a regular doctor. I have to go to be examined now. After—tonight, after eleven o'clock you don't eat, and tomorrow morning you fast, and I go there and then they—draw the blood, y’know, and analyze that and then he tells me—he gives me a cup of coffee, ah—tells me to go ahead and— Wanda: Where do you find a doctor like that? Matthew: They do—down there, though, the girls. And he says, ah, and he says, "Well, go home and eat a—eat a horse!" He's a nice doctor. Doctor, ah—Grinberg. Wanda: Oh. Matthew: You know him? He's the best doctor in the world. Wanda: I would love to go to him. Matthew: He's nice. He's just like a brother since he's known me. He just pulled me through a—a bad sickness I had one time. So, ah—I fish and I bring him a fish like that, and I bring him squirrels and rabbits and things, y’know. I hunt a little bit, now. The boy does most of the heavy hunting. I, I just go to the—to the places that are close by, y’know. Wanda: Your family's around here, are they? Matthew: Well, not everybody. I, I've got a daughter in Michigan and I've got one in—in, ah, Dayton, Ohio, and I've got one in Chicago. I've got one in, ah—Los Angeles, and I have—how many's that make, four? Wanda: Yes. Matthew: And then I have two here. I have Peggy and Suzanne here. And then I've got a girl that's in—you know the grandchildren in—eleven, eleventy dozen grandchildren. [Laughter.] Wanda: Has this been home all your life? Matthew: Oh yes. It's, ah—since I was little. I came up from Jersey. Wanda: Oh. Matthew: When I was about nine years old. Yes. I like Binghamton. I—I knew most everybody here, and when they go fishing, you know, they—my son-in-law says to me one time—Jack is a, is, ah, is, ah, my son-in-law. He went fishing up to Afton. I know every place from here to Canada, you know? And he says to me, "Hey," he says, ah, "Dad," he says, ah, "I wish we could get up there where Jack was last week."  I says, "Where?" He says, "Up to Afton." I says, "What part?" He says, "I don't know, but," he says, "we crossed a bridge," and he says, ah, "I don't know, we went down by the bridge and got a boat." And I said, "Was it an old bridge or a new bridge?" And he says "A modern bridge." So we got in the car that time, you know, started, y’know. And he, ah, we got up to Afton. We crossed the bridge and I look down and I says, ah—ah, I says, "Is this the bridge you crossed?" "Yep." And I looked down to the end, and I looked down and I saw there was about ten or twelve PepsiCo bottles. He says, "That's the place! That's the place! You know how Jack is always drinkin’—big quarts, quarts of Pepsi-Cola." And there were all these bottles. So we went down and we caught fish. Went back and told Jack. And he says, "Jesus, can't get away from him." I says, "I know," I says, "I’ve fished every foot of this pond since I'm about seventeen years old." But, that's the way my, my wife and, and Johnny and his wife and Leo Payne and his wife—used to—travel together, you know? And, ah, they'd leave on Sunday. I said, "Oh, I don't think I'll go." And later on my wife says, "Let, let's go fishin'." I says, "For part of the day." So the first thing I'll say, ah, "Well, where would they go today?" "I don't know." So we go up to Afton. We go two places there, we don't see 'em. We go back, go to Whitney Point. We don't see ‘em there. So we finally go on up around Oxford and we come down. Every place we ever fished. And I find them—Whitney Point. They gotta be one of those places. [Laughter.] Wanda: Good a way as any, isn't it? Matthew: Oh yes—umhmm. But as I said, I know, I know Binghamton—way, way back.  Wanda: I think if, if you'd like, we could do this again, could we? Matthew: Anytime, sure. Wanda: I'm so grateful for the interview you've given. Matthew: Oh, I've enjoyed your company too. We had a lot of fun. We relaxed and— Wanda: You bet. Matthew: I'm not crazy, I'm just silly. [Laughter.] *[Correction: Professor Palze was the violin teacher.] ⁺ [Roots by Alex Haley.] [The introduction to this interview was accidentally erased. The subject is Matthew Alston, residing at 150 Moeller Street, Binghamton, NY.] Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Matthew Alston Subject The topic of the resource Alston, Matthew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Musicians -- Interviews; Orchestra; Jazz; Photographers; Discrimination; Arlington Hotel; Bennett Hotel Description An account of the resource Matthew Alston discusses his early interest in the violin and creating a small orchestra after returning home from World War I and then later a Dixie Jazz Band. He details how he became interested in photography, his first camera, which was a Colony, one of Ansco's first cameras and how it came into his possession. He discusses taking a correspondence course for photography. He speaks of taking photographs of Willis Kilmer's race horse, for the local newspaper, being hired by the government as a photographer, and taking photographs of buildings and landscapes in his free time. He talks about his photography equipment and film processing. He discusses his ancestors and family and the prejudice he suffered. He talks briefly about his work with handicapped children. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 65A ; Recording 65B ; Recording 65C Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Alston, Matthew ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-30 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:09 Minutes ; 12:25 Minutes ; 33:29 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fae5e8c3dc1101b635850789aeb00a19.jpg 48f954797628c95227b50d19fb635186 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5d45b2dac1e54b653beb17f29e3d9d41.jpg b719d032b5af087a359d7a56e9d24c7c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23f6e15657293bc2201a050d6512df91.jpg 58c11caf2deaba314563226eeb766ce2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1fbf0507d143257ccb7f6f9a44cfc07c.mp3 e5fe76f3b65d75f4bb4390a3fa6797f7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bloomer,Harry Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Bicentennial; Uncle Sam; Blinky the Clown Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:23 Seconds ; 33:45 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56063">Interview with Harry Bloomer</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interviewed with: Harry Bloomer Interviewed By: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 03/16/1978 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil, and speaking with Harry Bloomer. 263 Main Street, Johnson City. The date is March 16, 1978. This interview is being, taking place at Wilson Memorial Hospital in Johnson City, where Mr. Bloomer is a patient. Will you start out giving me the, the date and...where, the place of your birth, a little of your childhood days, why you came to Johnson City, and while in Johnson City or in this locale, how you earned your living? Harry: Well, well, I mean, I came to Johnson City when I was a small boy. I lost my Dad and my Dad put me away, and so, ah, my Mother didn’t want me. So, when I got to a certain age, after I got to a certain age, then I got transferred to another institution, and I ran away from that one. And then I, then...then the depression came on, so, I…depression come on, so I was, I couldn’t read, couldn’t write. It was just my own name, so I joined, ah, joined the Army. And, ah, and [cough] after I joined the Army, why, I come out with an Honorable Discharge, and…and I, four years and seven months, I was in the Artillery first, then from the Artillery, I went to, ah, I went to the Medical Corps, and from the Medical Corps, and then I got discharged. And then I come home, and I couldn’t buy a job, so I’ve been a clown all my life. Used to clown up to the soldiers and every day that I could, and after I clowned up and everything. And then one day, they wrote a, couldn’t find the guy that was, that was going to be the Santa Claus. And, ah, so they couldn’t find him, so after, so they’re, so after the Chamber of Commerce, ah, got ahold of me. And after they got ahold of me, said, “I’m gonna make a Santa Claus out of ya.” I said, “Whoa, wait just a minute - difference between a Santa Claus and a difference between Santa Claus, and, eh, difference between, and, ah…a clown is between day, day, ah, day and night. Dan: Right. Harry: So… Dan: Okay. Harry: So, I said, “The difference between day, a day and night,” and ah, “What do you mean, you like children?” Well, I knew how to handle ‘em. “You’ve been a clown. And, eh, you know what…how to act with ‘em.” Stuff like that. I says, “Yeah, I know I do. But it’s, difference between, ah…” I says, “Well, I’ll try it.” So, I says, “You got a suit?” He says, “No, I haven’t got a suit. But,” he says, uh, “we’ll get you one.” And he got me one, and it was the worst one I ever saw. It was handmade, and it was a rubber mask, with a, a hot cotton, batten beard on it. And it was the hottest thing I’d had ever got ahold of. And I begin to like it, and so, happen next year, so I says, “Well," I says, who’ll be it next year?” “Well, you did such a good job, we’re going to let you have it.” Then I found out where this school was in Albion, New York. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And, ah, so I went to Albion, New York, and I, I said, “Is this the place where you get your, your wig and beard?” He says, “Yes, this is the place. But I only got one left - I’m going to New York, but I guess I can wait on you.” So, he says, “You want that wig and beard real bad, don’t ya?” I said, “Sure, I really want it, no matter what the price is; I don’t give a care. I want the suit, and I want the wig and beard.” So, Charlie showed me how to put it on, and he said to me, ah, and he said, and Charlie says, I kept feeling my pocket, looking at the suit; feeling my pocket, looking at the suit. “You really want that,” he says. “Really want it?” “Charlie,” I said, “I’m not married and nobody has to bawl me out when I come home. ‘How much money did you spend?’ And, ah, ‘What kind of, what kind of good time, good time did you have?’ and stuff like that. And if I come home broke…well, that’s my business ‘cause I’m all by, I’m all by myself.” And so, I went then and bought the suit and brought it home. And Charlie says, “If you, if you’re gonna make it your professional out of it, I’d advise you to have two, two suits in case of an accident - the show, it gotta go on.” And I said, “By the way, Charlie, what do you use for your makeup for your face?” He says, “See, you’re a better salesman than I am. Well,” he says, “You, ah, need three things - your powder. Use, ah, a white lead pencil. And, uh…when you use rouge, and then you, then you use your mirror. Mirror. And you take your time putting it on, in mirror - you don’t plaster it on. When, when you take your…you put it over your eyes, you don’t plaster it on. You just go very, very lightly. Very lightly. Like you just come in, out of, out of the cold ‘cause your face been frostbitten or something. And then on your face, you put rouge. And after you rub that all off, you rub that all off because, uh, it makes you look pas- you come in with rosy cheeks. And so, uh…then, then...then I, ah, I floated around. I went 25 years to that school. And one year, 25 years [inaudible], and, well, I, I took sick. I didn’t want to miss the school, but my Doctor said I’d better, I’d better miss it this year, then I might be alright the next year. So, I said, “Okay, whatever you say, Doc.” So, I, I missed it. And the day the school opened, I cried like a baby [begins crying] because I never missed a year. Dan: 25 years? Harry: Yeah. My profession. Dan: And this was the school in Albion? Harry: Albion…it was in Albion, but it was- Dan: Pardon? Harry: It’s in Bay City, Michigan now because Charlie died, see. Dan: Now you talk about - what’s Charlie’s last name? Harry: Charlie W. Howard. Dan: How do you spell that last name? Harry: You know what? I never went to school, so I couldn’t tell ya. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah… Sue: Howard. Dan: Howard. Sue: H-O-W-A-R-D. [spelling] Dan: Okay. Harry: So anyway, through going up there, and he said, “Don’t worry, Harry. You’re not gonna lose any time for it because you’re, you’re a real goodness, professional Santa Claus. And when I mean you do it…you don’t come up here for thanks just to put it on to scare the kids or give them a lot of hooey or stuff like that; you tell ‘em the truth. And, and you’re willing to…what you learn.” So, I went up the year after I took sick and I said this really…I can’t remember her name, but anyway, she was my nurse and she took me all around, and she really stuck by me, and she still sticks by me. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And, ah, then I hear…ah, I called him up again this year one time, and I said, “They’re gonna make me again, Charlie.” “Well, no, you’re not gonna…you’re not gonna lose anything over it because you, you’re always…you know your business.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, anyway, come home…and, ah, when I come home from there, a guy comin’ over, a guy come over to my my house one night from the newspapers. And he wanted, ah, tape…tape a couple of tapes off how, how I got to be a Santa. “Well,” I says, “There’s all my books here, there’s over 35 books of pictures of everywhere I go, everything I take. And when I’m not playing Santa Claus, I’m playing Blinky the, Blinky the Clown at the Pairs.” I used to work at the grandstand and sell apples and peanuts and stuff like that. I sell ‘em, “Here, here comes the lousy peanut man, trying to get rid of them just as fast as he can.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And then one woman said to me one day, “What have ya got?” I says, “I’ve got candy apples; they’re dipped in glue; a couple of worm holes; it’s all up to you; sweet on the outside; sour on the in; the red gets all over your chin.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Then I’d come back the next day: “Hey, you’ve got nothing but popcorn.” “Oh, yes - I have,” says I, [inaudible] and I came to spend my rotten corn. “Last year a kernel, this year a pop; when we get to you, it won’t be so hot.” And, ah…one woman says, “Ya talk like that all the time.” And I says, “Yeah. If I don’t get ya, my voice will; I’ll get your money before you get over the hill.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: And she says, “See? You’re not only a poet like that,” and when you write it in the paper and it says, “He’s not only a poet, but he’s also a politician.” And so, the kids one day, says, “Hey, Santa. How’d you get here with no snow?” “I fly high and I fly low; and I find land; that’s how I go.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Now…[inaudible] And then this family says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I said, Yes, I brought Rudolph.” But I says, ah…hm, “He won’t want to go this year.” “Why not?” “Did you ever see a deer go why, why, without snow?” “No.” “Well, then Rudolph won’t go.” Dan: Hm. Harry: But, I…next year, I told ‘em I’d try to play it again as, as...as sick as I was. And so, ah, I put my outfit and suit on - played, ah, quite, ah…clubs, and the big clubs and stuff like that. And did my best. And then they says, “Hey, did you bring Rudolph this year?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “But I’m having trouble.” “What you mean?” I said, “Tricky Dick won’t give me no gas; I can’t get the helicopter off the grass.” Dan: [lightly chuckles] Harry: And I says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I says, “Yeah. I can’t use, use him, either.” “Well, why can’t ya?” “‘Cause,” I says, “Tricky Dick, he, he shut off the lights; can’t light up his nose…” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: “Can’t see which way he goes.” Dan: “Uh-huh.” Harry: “I, I hope Tricky Dick is out of the office ‘cause next time, everything will be, will be alright.” And this year I tried to play…I said, “Well, don’t gang me this year because Santa Claus is in tough shape.” One little boy came to me: “What do you mean, ‘tough shape’?” I says, “Yeah, I brought Rudolph, but he’s awful mean this year. Terrible mean.” Dan: Yeah. Harry: “What do you mean?” I says, “Awful mean.” I says, “I went up to feed him…when I went out to feed him, he hauled right off from me, and he kicked me. So, I can’t let nobody sit on my lap th-…for this year.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I said, “You’re not mad at Santa because you can’t sit on Santy’s lap?” “Oh, no.” I said, “We’ll find him just the same.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And like that. So, I went through my act the best way I could. And I got bleeding, and… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: …Sick again. And they… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And they put me back in. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And that was my Santa Claus days. Dan: Whe-where were you born, Harry? Harry: I was born in Cortland. Dan: Cortland? Harry: Uh, yeah. I was born in Cortland. Dan: Now, you mentioned your Dad put you away. Harry: My Mother put me away. Dan: Your Mother put you away…away, where? Harry: In a home in Cortland. Dan: In a home in Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Dan: For, for, uh, children? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see. Harry: And then, uh…I started a certain age, they put me up on the Hudson to a feeble-minded home, and people said, “What is that guy? Is he a nut?” “Well,” I says, “If I’m, if, if I’m not, if I’m a nut, I’m a tough nut if I was cracked.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And I said, “I make, what do you make?” I says, “You’re making a lot of noise.” I says, “I…I’m making a buck or two.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “So, make all the noise that’s…and call me anything that you want.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “‘Cause I’m making a buck between as a nut.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “And if you want to learn what I do, I’m a member of a trade.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And so… Dan: Mm-hm. Now, uh, you mentioned the Chamber of Commerce wanted you to play Santa Claus. What Chamber of Commerce? Harry: In, in Johnson City. Dan: In Johnson City - how did you happen to come from - uh, where was this? The…? Harry: This was after the War. Dan: Yeah, but you - where was it on the Hudson that you were…? Harry: Up on the Hudson. Dan: Yeah - how, how did you to-? Harry: That’s good news: I ran away from that place. Dan: You ran away from there, and how did you happen to come to Johnson City? Harry: Well, I worked my way toward home. Dan: Towards Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Yeah, ‘till I found my folks and then my folks didn’t want me. I couldn’t find a job, so I…I picked up my own work. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Mowing lawns, and anywhere I could pick up a penny here or a penny there, and try to make people happy. Dan: Right. Now, you appeared, of course, before a lot of groups and organizations as Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Now, did you go to individual houses? Harry: Mm-hm. Dan: Were you out for hire? Harry: Um-hm. Dan: And what was your busiest season? I mean, was it the week before Christmas? Harry: It…it was, ah, Christmas Eve night. Dan: Christmas Eve night. Now, you weren’t - you, you don’t drive a car, do you? Harry: No, I don’t drive. Dan: Now, how did you get from house to house? Harry: Well, I had a good driver. I decorated my sleigh all up, and I named, and I named him, “Rudolph.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I says, “Well, Rudolph is now all ready for a night.” Then, we keep the same addresses every year. Sometimes we get new ones, sometimes old, younger ones are growed out of it. And so, I always had new ones coming in. Dan: But, I mean, how did you get from one house to another? Harry: In the car. Dan: In the car? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see…uh-huh. And, ah, Harry, would you mind telling me, I mean, how much you got for each one of your performances - I mean, to go to a residence? You know, to play Santa Claus? Harry: Well, sometimes I got nothin’. Dan: Sometimes, you got nothing. Harry: I didn’t get a penny. Dan: Is that right? Harry: But it ain’t, it ain’t for the penny. Dan: It’s, it’s…that’s right - it’s self-satisfaction. Mm-hm. Ah, what awards have you had, geh, Harry? Harry: Well, the highest award I ever had was, ah, was, ah…Red Ruby. Dan: Red Ruby? Harry: Red Ruby. From the Santa Claus school - I went there for 25 years. Dan: That’s in Albion? Harry: Mm-hm. Yeah. Dan: Uh-huh…now, what is the Red Ruby award? Harry: Well, Red Ruby stands for everlasting fire that never goes out. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: For the, for the good deeds you did. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Towards other people. Dan: Uh-huh. Now, during the Bicentennial year, you, as I understand, you portrayed Uncle Sam. Harry: Yes. I went out, crazy enough. I went out, tried, bought myself an Uncle Sam suit. But, I didn’t have no beard at first. Dan: You’ve still retained the beard, haven’t you? [laughs] Harry: Yeah. Somebody, somebody said, “Hey, Uncle Sam’s supposed to have a beard.” I says, “I, I know that.” I says, I says, “Don’t worry about it.” I says, “I’ll put my razor away. And I’ll see what, then I’ll see what Uncle Sam will do.” First thing I know, it come out a perfect white and shaped right up - didn’t have to color it, tie it, or nothing. So, I said, “Here comes Uncle Sam; dirty old man; takes your money as fast as he can.” Dan: [laughs] Harry: “Takes your money and takes your dough - won’t give it back, where you go.” Hello. What do you want? [Interruption over Public Address system] Dan: Um, Harry, is there anything else that you’d like to tell me? You had a banquet here some time ago that the notables of the Triple Cities put on for you, honoring you for your- Harry: Well… Dan: -public service. Harry: Well, when I got out of the hospital. Dan: This was, what? About a year ago? Mm-hm. Harry: And I didn’t know nothin’ about it. Dan: It was a surprise party. Uh-huh. Harry: [crying; words inaudible] -light up the trees. And then they, they presented me with a live Christmas, Christmas tree. Dan: A live Christmas tree? Harry: Yeah, in the park. Dan: I see. Harry: So, then I told ‘em…I says, “Well, I tell you all,” I says, “When the tree gets big and tall, you can come in and decorate it all.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: So, I says, “Now, you’ve got a swing out there.” And I says, “When, uh…when the tree begins to, to grow,” I said…I said, “Out in the…out in my swinging, and now, and I’ll watch it grow.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I told ‘em. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And so, I always had little ditties, little poems here for different people- Dan: Uh-huh. Harry -and stuff like that, you know? Dan: Were there any other characters that you portrayed other than Santa Claus, Blinky the Clown, and Uncle Sam? Harry: Well, the real ones was the…see, I’ve been a clown all, all of my life. And then I came in, in on the Santa Claus deal…and then, then...then I was up, I was up to Albion. Charlie said to me, “You outta, you outta make a good, eh…Easter Rabbit.” “A rabbit?” I says. “Whaddaya mean, a rabbit?” He says, “You make such a good Santy Claus…" Dan: [laughing] Harry: “…And you know how to act…you know how to [inaudible] without breaking into them, and you know not to talk when you don’t have to. So, you outta make darn good Peter Rabbit.” And so, I got the business for, of playing, uh, the Peter Rabbit for, for the Schweiners, and help to count them egg hunt Easter eggs. Stuff like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Sometimes, they’d give me something for it, and sometime they wouldn’t. But it all come from the heart. Dan: Yeah. Well, you, you’ve managed to be self-sustaining over all these, all these years, uh, Harry. Harry: Yeah. Dan: In spite of the fact that you can’t read nor write, I mean, I think you’ve done remarkable. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Is there anything else you’d like to add at all? Harry: Well, let’s see, uh… Dan: Is there any other awards that you received outside the Ruby award at the Albion? Harry: No, not exactly. Uh…some of the boys didn’t like me coming up there quite so many times - it took me 25 years. And Charlie - before Charlie died - he said, “If I know you, you’re gonna be the first man to walk out of this school with that Red Ruby on.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: He says, I said, “No, Charlie.” He says, “I’m telling ya.” He says, “Harry, if you’re not here - if you’re gone before I am - you’re gonna be the first man to walk out.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he says, “It’s because you’re gonna make a good Santa Claus.” Dan: Uh-huh. Now, when you went up there during these 25 years, when you returned, Harry, what did you do - teach the other…? Harry: Well… Dan: Fellas that wanted to, uh…the trade? Harry: Well, I wanted, I wanted to, to portray like that. If I still live and I get better, I might exactly do that. But, I, I never take away anybody else’s trade. Dan: I see. Harry: Never. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: If they wanna learn, they can spend their money like I did. Dan: Yeah. Harry: I’ll always be glad to help ‘em, explain it to ‘em, and tell them where they make their mistakes. If they don’t like it, then they can save their money, and they can, they can go up to the school. Dan: How much did it cost for you to go that school? Harry: Well, when I first went to school there it cost me 20, $125.00. And then they cut it down to, ah, $75.00 - try to get more men to come. Dan: Yep. Harry: That was a refreshing course. Dan: Yeah. Harry: And then they cut it down to 50. And he left it that way - left it, left it down to 50. Dan: I see. Harry: And, ah…and Charlie says, “Don’t let anybody kid ya, Harry, at all: You did this alone.” Dan: Mm-hm. How, how, uh, many weeks was the original course when you went there? Harry: [inaudible] -cost. Dan: When you went, when it was- Harry: Hundred- Dan: $125.00? Harry: Oh, it was about…it was about two weeks, it started. Dan: Two weeks? Harry: Yeah. Because, see, the school was just startin’ to be... Dan: Yeah. Harry: He, he just started buildin’ it. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: It was between Charlie (W-H-I) and, and, ah…and, and May. Maple Jone. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he, ah…got them together. And he, he got them together. And he went to New York, helping him all over. We went to Macy’s, he says, “Oh, my God. I,” he says, “I can’t find better-lookin’ Santa Clauses than that.” Heaven bets. And Macy says, “Why in the world don’t you start a school? And put better-lookin’ men in this, in, in this school?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “Better-looking Santa Claus?” And so I go around and check ‘em. I see a boy – a fellow with brown shoes and black puttees, and I said, “By the way.” I says, “Did you ever go to Santa Claus school?” And he says, “No, why?” Well, I says...ah, “Don’t you want to go to school?” “Do ya have to?” I said, “No, you...you don’t have to. It costs ya money no matter where you go; you’re never gonna take a penny with ya when you go... Dan: Mm-hm. Harry:...But you’ll be...[begins sobbing] Dan: Okay, that’s alright, Harry...ah... Harry: He, he killed that. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: I says, “Please think.” I says, “Playing Santa Claus; there’s not many that are very nice.”  So, what point they need is: “How much money you make playing Santa Claus? I looked at him, and I says, “Is that what you came up here for?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Make a little thing like that – go right back. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, I says, “You’ll never make a Santa Claus.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Says, “You mean to tell me you see a Santa every three or four over there, and some over there, that you hadn’t, haven’t the opportunity to charge...” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “...then you’d never be a Santa Claus?” Dan: Yep; right. Not from the heart. Harry: Right. Dan: Not from the heart. Okay, Harry, you think that’s about all you’d like to tell me today? Harry: Well, you like - that’s how I got to be Santa Claus. Dan: That’s how you got to be Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And sold peanuts and popcorn at the ballpark. Harry: Yeah. And he says, “Come and get your stinkin’, rotten peanuts!”  Dan: [Dan laughing] Harry: And said, “The longer you wait, the rottener they get.” I used to tell them that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: [unintelligible] Dan: Well, for the sake of the archives, ah, Harry, why don’t we get your nurse’s name here on tape? Harry: Um... Sue: Sue Romanaski. Dan: Sue? Sue: Romanaski. Dan: Romanaski. Sue: Mm-hm. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And you’re a nurse, are you, Sue? Sue: Yeah, I’m an RN. Dan: You’re an RN? Sue: Yeah. Dan: At the hospital here? Sue: At Ideal Hospital. I’m- Dan: Oh, at Ideal. Sue: When Harry was having his operation last October, I was a student nurse. Dan: I see. Sue: And I went through the operation with him and everything. Dan: Mm. And you stuck with him. Sue: Yep. Harry: Good. Sue: I used to go over and read his letters to him, write his mail, and take him shopping, and things like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Well, God bless you. Well, Harry, would you like me to play this back for ya? Harry: Yeah. Dan: Okay. Article: Tribute Paid to memory of ‘Mr. Santa Claus’ By: George Basler "God knows the world needs more Harry Bloomers." This statement by Bernard Fionte, news director of WNBF radio, summed up the feelings of many today toward Harry Bloomer, who for 36 years played Santa Claus for thousands of Johnson City children. [Image Caption: 'Mr. Santa Claus'. Depicts Harry Bloomer in his Santa Claus outfit, looking down at a piece of parchment held in his two hands.] Bloomer, 71, who was nicknamed "Mr. Santa Claus" because he played the role for so long, died yesterday at Wilson Memorial Hospital after a long battle with cancer. "He was one of the most irreplacable people I've known," said Fionte, who emceed a tribute to Bloomer at Johnson City High School in 1976. "I think it's a dreadful loss to the community." Bloomer was sick for more than a year, but until the very end he never gave up fighting. Last January he was still looking forward to playing Santa Claus for local children next Christmas. But, for the last week or so, Bloomer knew the end was near, his friends said. "I saw him last Wednesday night, and he had put his trust in God. He said God knows best," said the Rev. Richard D. Christen, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Johnson City, which Bloomer attended for more than 30 years. "He was a man of good faith with respect to the community, and he was a man of real faith with respect to God," Christen added. Another close friend, Patricia Morse, said, "I'm glad it's over. He had suffered too long, and he was too good to suffer.” At his request, Bloomer will be buried in his outfit of Blinky the Clown – a character he created during his years as a circus vendor. He also played Peter Rabbit and in the summer of 1976 appeared as Uncle Sam at area parades and celebrations in honor of the Bicentennial. But, in a recent interview, he said, "Way down deep in my heart, I think my favorite character is Santa Claus. It’s a lot of headaches sometimes, but I like to meet kids." He identified with the role so much that at one time he thought about being buried in one of his Santa Claus costumes. But, he decided against it because he said simply, "Santa Claus lives forever. " Why was Bloomer so dedicated to playing Santa Claus? Christen theorized part of this dedication stemmed from his lack of parental love as a child. His childhood was spent in orphanages where, because of a stutter, he was overlooked by teachers and never learned to read or write. He finally ran away from an institution at the age of 15. "Maybe he felt what he lacked as a boy, he could give to others," Christen said. While Bloomer became a local legend during his years in Johnson City, an Evening Press article in July 1976 discovered that few knew the man behind the gaudy costumes and outrageous trappings. For the last 12 years of his life, Bloomer lived in a small $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. He never married and never had any children. Ironically, the man who brought joy to so many persons at Christmas time usually spent his holiday alone. But, Bloomer never became bitter. He called the testimonial that local residents organized in November 1976 a high point of his life, and added, ''I didn't think I had so many friends, but I have a lot of them.'' Louis Augostini, who organized the testimonial, said he saw Bloomer 10 days ago at the hospital, and "he was preoccupied with expressing thanks to people for everything that's been done for him. “Of course, the real truth is that Harry did a lot for us," Augostini said.  "He was a very unselfish person. Playing Santa Claus was never a money maker for him. Maybe it just gave him a sense of pride to do something for the kids," Augostini added. Bernard Brown, president of the Johnson City Businessmen's Association, said Bloomer was "synonymous with Johnson City." "That was his life[,] to keep people happy...He was terrific. He'll be missed." Jean Kavulich, a friend of Bloomer's for more than 30 years, said simply, "He was the children's idol." Funeral arrangements are being handled by the J.F. Rice Funeral Home in Johnson City. Director James Carey said the home is expecting large crowds during calling hours this afternoon and evening. This evening the Frank A. Johnson American Legion Post, to which Bloomer belonged, will provide a special honor guard. The Last Man's Club (veterans of World War II) will also hold a special service at the home. Bloomer's funeral will be Saturday at 10 A.M. at First Baptist Church in Johnson City. His body will then be taken by a grandnephew, Terrence McCullough, for burial at a cemetery between Marathon and Cortland. McCullough was with Bloomer at the time of his death yesterday. But even though he's gone, Bloomer's memory will live on, his friends said. Morse said, “There is some talk of donating to Roberson Center one of Bloomer's Santa Claus suits and the certificates he received from the Santa Claus School in Michigan (a training school for Santa) that he attended for many years.” [Image caption: Harry Bloomer. Depicts Harry Bloomer facing the camera, garbed in his Uncle Sam costume, and walking up a city street.] For his part, Richard Barrons, curator of history at the center, said he'd welcome this donation. "Harry was a great inspiration to many people," Christen said. Morse noted simply, "He didn't play Santa Claus - he was Santa Claus.'' Article: Blinky the Clown will get the epitaph he wished for By: George Basler Thanks to the efforts of a friend, Harry Bloomer's final wish has come true. For 36 years Bloomer enchanted thousands of area children as Blinky the Clown and Santa Claus. He made a career out of bringing good cheer to others, and in the process became one of Johnson City's most beloved residents. Before he died last April, after a long battle with cancer, Bloomer made two requests: To be buried in his Blinky the Clown outfit because, he said, "As long as I've been a clown there's no harm in going out that way. I just might want to entertain someone on the other side.” And, to have a tombstone placed at his grave, with the simple inscription: "Here lies Blinky the Clown. Doesn't know if he's going up or down. He just has to leave town.” After Bloomer's estate was settled, there was no money left for the tombtone. [Image Caption: Harry Bloomer...in 1976. Depicts a portrait shot of Harry Bloomer in his Uncle Sam costume in a city environment; the white top hat is of prominence.] [Image Caption: Linc Haller polishes the tombstone of his friend, Horry Bloomer. Depicts Linc Haller squatting next to Harry Bloomer’s tombstone in a cemetary, which depicts an artist’s rendition of the character alongside the inscription that Harry wished for.] [Image Taken By: Frank Woodruff] But Howard L. "Linc" Haller, the former owner of the Binghamton-Johnson City Monument Co., remembered a promise he had made to his friend. "For the past 20 years Harry would see me in the post office or on the street, and he'd say, 'Don't forget when I die what I want on my tombstone.' It got to be an old story,” Haller said. “When he had his last sickness, I went up to see him in the hospital and promised him he’d get his wish.” ln July, Haller and Robert Traver, current owner[s] of the monument company, wrote Bloomer's grand-nephew in Syracuse for a picture of Bloomer in his Blinky the Clown outfit so it could be engrav d on the tombstone. They then ordered the tombstone, just like Bloomer wanted it from their factory in Johnstown. The tombstone arrived last week, and next week Haller and Traver will move it to Virgil, where Bloomer’s grave is. Haller made it clear he's not doing this for publicity, but because of the promise he made to Bloomer. He seemed embarrassed by the notoriety. ''Don't play me up too much,'' he said. "I told Harry he would have a marker, and that’s all there is to it.” The granite tombstone has the Blinky the Clown poem and the engraving of Bloomer in his clown costume on one side. On the other side is the simple inscription, “Harry Bloomer. 1907-1978." Haller acknowledged that some people might think the poem is inappropriate for a tombstone, but "that's just what Harry wanted.” And anyone who thinks it's inappropriate didn’t know Bloomer very well. Every Christmas for more than three decades the portly man, dressed in one of his three red[,] velvet suits and a fluffy white beard, walked the village streets handing out candy to the children. He also played Santa Claus for village merchants and clubs[,] and every year visited the Wilson Memorial Hospital pediatrics ward. Besides Kris Kringle, Bloomer also played Peter Rabbit, Uncle Sam during the 1976 Bicentennial, and Blinky the Clown, a character he originated during his years as a circus vendor at fairs thoughout the Southern Tier. He became known as "Mr Santa Claus,” but his own life was far from a fairy tale. A lifelong bachelor, Bloomer worked as a laborer and carnival barker. He spent his early years in an orphanage and his last years in a dingy, $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. Those who knew him said he loved children so much because he was so neglected during his own childhood. Despite the bad breaks life dealt him, Bloomer was a man who enjoyed life, Haller said. “He certainly made a lot of other people enjoy it, kids especially.” Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harry Bloomer Subject The topic of the resource Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Description An account of the resource Harry Bloomer discusses joining the Army as a young man and entertaining the soldiers. Upon being discharged he began working as a Santa Claus for local organizations and continued to do this for the rest of his life. He talks about attending a Santa Claus school annually. He was also a clown and was known as Blinky the Clown. During the Bicentennial he portrayed Uncle Sam. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Universal Viewer / Rosetta Rosetta audio media Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gruss, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-01-05 Subject LCSH Gruss, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pennsylvania; Coal mines and mining; Endicott Johnson Corporation--Employees--Interviews; Cigar industry; Polish language; Russian language; Slovak language; Ukrainian language Binghamton Clothing Company; Dr. Mary Ross Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:20 Minutes ; 14:01 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56071">Interview with Michael Gruss</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Gruss Subject The topic of the resource Gruss, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pennsylvania; Coal mines and mining; Endicott Johnson Corporation--Employees--Interviews; Cigar industry; Polish language; Russian language; Slovak language; Ukrainian language Description An account of the resource Michael Gruss speaks of his youth in Pennsylvania and working in the coal mines there. He was a licensed black powder blaster and he describes what this entails. He moved to Johnson City in 1913 to work for the Endicott Johnson Corporation and acted as an unofficial labor mediator for the company. He reflects briefly on witnessing the overall factory [Binghamton Clothing Company] fire and trying to help the factory workers. He describes the cigar industry in Binghamton's First Ward and the workers' attempt to unionize. He worked with Dr. Mary Ross as her driver and assisted her on home visits. He was competent in Polish, Russian, Slovak and Ukrainian languages. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fa Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 67