53 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8892c6b47cdd0d2658b7f099024f0a03.mp3 eaa2f5d07ca1ac61d80fe39c8b07156a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kurdish Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource In 2011, Binghamton University Libraries received the donation of the Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library and Museum Collection. The acquisition opened a dialog with the local Kurdish community in Binghamton, N.Y., which led to the creation of the Kurdish Oral History Project. These interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Kurdish culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Kurdistan. This growing collection holds interviews in English and/or Kurdish with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Kurdistan. The interviewees share remarkable stories of their migration, their persecution in Kurdistan, the resilience of their Kurdish identity in assimilating into the host culture, and the ties they maintain with their homeland in diaspora.<a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/sustain"></a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/76">Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library & Museum Collection Finding Aid</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interview Format Video or Audio audio Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 43:46 minutes Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Erdem Ilter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Amin Amin Date of Interview 22 March 2013 Language English Biographical Text Amin Amin fled his hometown, which was located north of the Kurdish city of Duhok, to escape Saddam Hussein’s violence towards Kurds. He arrived in the United States with his family in 1992 and settled in Johnson City, NY, where he grew up among a Kurdish community. Although his primary language is Kurdish, he became fluent in English and was able to blend in within the American society and culture. Amin has a master’s degree from Tennessee State University (TSU). Digital Publisher Binghamton University Keywords Kurdish; United States; Diaspora; Kurdistan; Saddam Hussein; Duhok; Iraq; Binghamton; Johnson City; Broome County; Refugees; Turkish Camps; Kurdish Culture Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Kurdish Oral History Project Interview with: Amin Amin Interviewed by: Erdem Ilter Transcriber: Marwan Tawfiq Date of interview: 22 March 2013 Interview Setting: Binghamton University -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:02 EI: So, let us start with your full name, okay. 0:07 AA: Amin Amin. 0:08 EI: Amin Amin. Birth place? 0:12 AA: Um, Iraq. 0:13 EI: Iraq. What is it? 0:14 AA: Like northern Iraq, like Kani Balave. 0:17 EI: Okay, I mean the city? 0:19 AA: Kani Balave, like that is the area. 0:21 EI: Duhok or? 0:22 AA: Yeah, north of Duhok. 0:24 EI: North of Duhok, part of Duhok right? 0:27 AA: Yeah. 0:27 EI: Okay. Okay. Is it a village or a small city? 0:30 AA: I mean I was born right about when we ran away from Saddam Hussein and stuff, so it was like in¬¬– 0:36 EI: When did you born? 0:37 AA: (19)87, 1987. 0:39 EI: Do you remember anything? [laughs] 0:43 AA: Nah, not much, not much– 0:46 EI: Okay, good. You are originally Kurd and Sunni? 0:51 AA: Yes. 0:52 EI: Are you married? 0:54 AA: No. 0:56 EI: How many siblings do you have? 0:58 AA: I have four brothers and four sisters. 1:00 EI: Okay, Mashallah. What is your education level? 1:03 AA: Getting my master’s in a month. 1:07 EI: Okay, in BU [Binghamton University] or– 1:08 AA: No in uh, TSU [Tennessee State Univeristy] in uh Tennessee. 1:15 EI: Ah, okay, okay, good. Uh your native language is Kurdish. Other languages you know? 1:24 AA: I know some French but not too well. 1:27 EI: Uh number of years in the United States? 1:32 AA: Um I came here in 1992, so it is going on twenty-one years. 1:36 EI: Okay, 1992 you came here. 1:38 AA: Yeah so going to twenty-one almost. 1:42 El: Yeah ok, so when you came here you were three years old right? 1:45 AA: Yeah just about. 1:47 EI: Okay. 1:48 AA: I was turning five, probably four. 1:51 EI: Yeah, (19)87. Do you remember anything, when you came here? 1:59 AA: What was the question? When I came here? Not much I have like visual memories here and then but nothing like too specific. You know. Maybe some images, you know, but nothing too uh– 2:12 EI: So, how was your childhood? 2:16 AA: I mean it was uh– 2:18 EI: What do you remember? 2:19 AA: When I came here I did not go to school the first year, so I was mostly around my family, you know, just you know– 2:27 EI: Do you remember anything at that time? I mean how was it? 2:30 AA: When I first came here? 2:32 EI: Yeah. 2:33 AA: I mean to me it just seemed normal. 2:35 EI: Not, like the last years, you were just– 2:38 AA: We were in Turkish camps and we came here as refugees. 2:43 EI: Do you remember anything from Turkish camps? 2:44 AA: No, I mean like I got images– 2:47 EI: And when they tell, I mean your family? How they tell, did they tell you anything about it or? 2:54 AA: I mean we were there for about four years almost. 3:00 EI: Four years in Turkey? 3:01 AA: Yeah, Turkish camps. 3:03 EI: Where? 3:06 AA: Diyarbakır. 3:09 EI: Diyarbakır, Okay. Did they tell anything, did you ask them that what happened– 3:11 AA: I mean it was a hard life style, you know it is like you just got maybe couple loaves of bread and maybe like some soup for the whole family for the whole day, you know. And It was you could not really do any work, you know, so my dad tried to do some jobs, but most of the time it was illegal if you like hop the border or something like that, but he would try to do some jobs inside the camps and stuff like that, like tried to make some extra money. But it was hard to do any jobs they tell us that I mean it was a hard life style you know. 3:49 EI: Yeah, I mean, maybe your mum told you were sick like we were taking of you. Do you have any stories like that they told? 4:00 AA: Yeah, I mean, we would always like get sick and my brother would need medicine sometime and my dad would have to go you all the way to Iran and to get medicine, my brother is one year older than me but my dad would have to walk, you know he had to get medicine, and he had to do whatever he can you know, make money, however but it was like we were in camps so it was like very hard life style but um- 4:23 EI: What was his job in Duhok. 4:27 AA: When we first came I mean he was like a veterinarian for like animals and stuff like that we take care of them, but then he also did like, he did a lot of different jobs, you know, his family had farm land that was in Iraq but in Turkey, there was really like no jobs, just in refugee camps– 4:51 EI: Was it tent or constructions, the camps? 4:57 AA: No, it was tents. All the stories they told it was tents. Like one family would get a big tent but you get eleven, because my family and my uncles’ family we lived, probably back then it was fifteen or sixteen of us in that tent that is enough for like two three rooms, like two rooms. 5:15 EI: Okay, and for, for you sister– 5:16 AA: I think after like the second year they gave them another tent so they moved out, it was a little more space, you know. 5:23 EI: Yeah, Actually. It should be difficult for you I mean you are still alive because a long way if they have told you, I do not know. How long have been they have walked to come there? 5:36AA: To come to Turkey? 5:40 EI: Yeah. 5:40 AA: Um, I would estimate like probably like over fifty-sixty miles or close to a hundred and you know on their way they had a lot of problems, a lot people would throw their kids because they could not walk no more, they were just leave their kids, a lot of times like, or the planes would be shooting at them, and you are looking for your kid you do not know where they are at, everybody is running away and a lot of people lost their kid, one of my sisters, she was on my grandmother’s house when that happened and we left and my grandparents went another way, so she went with them, she did not come to America until like (19)96-(19)97. We did not see her. She was with them but at that time we did not know but you know later on they called, they got information that she was with them. So, like a lot of people just lost their kids, and a lot of people on their way they could just walk any more, if you did not have you know transportation like donkeys or whatever, you know stuff like that, a lot of people would just fall on the ground and just die right there. 6:44 EI: How did they tell stories about life in Kurdistan before war? 6:51 AA: Before war, I mean our family had ups and down do you know like financially, you know. Sometimes it would be rich and then over there is no insurance like my dad had a store, it burned down– 7:04 EI: Why? 7:05 AA: Huh? 7:06 EI: Why? 7:07 AA: Like they had farms and stuff like that, sometimes, one time he told us that the farm got on fire and they lost like everything, there is no insurance, no nothing, so you are done for the year. 7:16 EI: The fire you said, is it just accidental? 7:19 AA: Yeah, that was before we run to Turkey. I mean this is he telling me stories like the (19)70s and (19)80s, but there is no, you never know, it might not rain that year, you do not get crops you going to live bad that year you know. 7:35 EI: Yeah, exactly. It should be difficult on you. Especially in camps– 7:43 AA: Yeah, in the camps even one of my uncles because I had two uncles one of them died like twenty-seven and a lot of people, I mean a lot of the people and even like my parents and my uncle and my dad still believe that you know, because sometimes they would send bread maybe expired or um no good and they would eat it, you know, because he had stomach problem and stuff like that and he eventually died from it. So, I mean over there you know you get whatever you get, whatever they give you, you eat. 8:21 EI: No choice. 8:22 AA: Yeah, you basically you live in the mud too. You sleep on that a lot, you are breathing in it. 8:30 EI: Is your dad still alive? 8:31 AA: Yeah, my father. 8:33 EI: Okay, great. So, from which part you remember your childhood? I mean when you started school here or before? 8:46 AA: Yeah, right when we got here, my uncle he knew like alphabet, numbers and stuff like that, right then when I was four years old you know he showed me the alphabet and he showed me numbers and I started reading like little words, like cat, dog, before I even went to school and all of us Kurdish people we were like in some buildings over the main street in Johnson city like in those two big buildings they burned down recently, but we all lived there, there was like seven or eight of us, of our families, and we always go out and see each other, you know. 9:23 EI: All the families were there? 9:24 AA: Yeah, we were the original, it was my family. There was about seven families like came here in 1992. There was only one guy in 91 he came here before us and he brought most of us, did our paperwork and brought us here. You know and um we all lived in those apartments and you know, we would go and see each other every night and you know the refugee people would help us you know. I guess it is probably the American Civic did stuff like that, they helped us, they took us to stores, and you know they showed us how food stamp worked and stuff like that. 9:58 EI: Yeah, okay. So, what were you doing, I mean you just play with the other Kurdish children or? 10:05 AA: Yeah, Yeah, Mostly we were just like, you know we had a big family, so we would hang out just with the family and there was other Kurdish people would walk to the park, you know there is a park about a quarter mile down the road, you know we would walk there and have fun over there, do stuff around– just like stuff kids would do and then I went to school there elementary of Abraham Lincoln, I went there. 10:32 EI: Yeah, you started school, here right? 10:35 AA: Yup, Kindergarten, I went to Kindergarten, I mean I learned the language in like two three months you know– 10:39 EI: English? 10:40 AA: Yes, I was so young I learnt it quick, um I was just mostly with them, and then we just do what kids do, you know. 10:48 EI: Yeah, exactly. Was it difficult to learn, I mean not to learn in a short period, how was it? 10:55 AA: I mean it was easy, it was easy for me to learn, and I mean to be honest I think my, because I mean we are very cultural, like Kurdish people, like after I was done with like, I think my English was best when I was eighth or ninth grade, because I was hanging out with both American and Kurdish people, but as I got older I started hanging out more with Kurdish people, we are cultural you know, so probably my English got worse, believe it or not. 11:25 EI: [laughs] Yeah, you should be right. So, what you were doing in school? 11:29 AA: I mean in school, like right when I started I was really good at school because you know my uncle prepared me and I mean they always pushed me to do good at school so I mean you just go to school, do all my school work, and you know, made friends here and there like American friends to, and you know I would come home but like I would never like go out with them, it was just school time I would be with the American people and when I got home we would just be home, my dad would go to work and come home and we just hang out stuff like that. 12:01 EI: What was his job at that time? 12:03 AA: Um he did mostly um like uh a custodial work, you know like uh, janitor and stuff like that. Maintenance for buildings and yeah, he did mostly that type of work. 12:14 EI: Your mom, she is a housewife? 12:17 AA: Yeah, she is at home. I mean she had eight kids you know [laughs] at the time there was six of us at that time, but- 12:25 EI: Are you all studying or I mean are you all went to college or? 12:29 AA: Yeah, I mean I am getting my masters, two of my sisters had their associates another one of them is working; she is trying to get her nursing degree. My other brother has Bachelors in business; he is working for like a research company. He is doing pretty well. My other brother is going to get associates in civil engineering, and then my younger brother he is working for his associates in civil engineering too. 12:57 EI: Why all civil engineering and engineering? 13:00 AA: I do not know I did it, I started out with computer science but– 13:06 EI: No social science? 13:08 AA: No, I do not know the job market over here is civil engineering it is called whether it you got concrete, expanding and contrasting you got concrete break and you got asphalt um, you know the roads are horrible, there are always going to be bad because of the snow, so there is a lot of civil engineering jobs you know. There is not that many like if you do business. My brother did business but now I mean it was hard for him to find a job here, so he is in Tennessee right now and he found a good job over there, so you going to go with the job market. So, I think that is why everybody doing civil engineering. That’s what I think. 13:43 EI: It is interesting, yeah, okay. So after, you continued school here in Binghamton, right? 13:55 AA: Yes, well, we lived in Johnson City until about probably um (19)96 – (19)97 and then we moved to Binghamton, and then we stayed in Binghamton until– 14:05 EI: Was there any difference between them? 14:07 AA: Johnson City and Binghamton? Uh, Not really, not too much, um– 14:13 EI: You went to another school, you changed school? 14:15 AA: Yeah, changed schools. I went to um Theodor Roosevelt over in Binghamton. 14:19 EI: How was it that time? 14:21 AA: It was pretty good, but um it was pretty good. Not too many changes really. And then I went to the middle school over there. 14:32 EI: How was life there in middle school? Still hanging out with uh Kurds or– 14:37 AA: Yeah, in middle school it was mostly. It was a mix, it was probably fifty-fifty. You know as many Kurdish friends as American friends. But we still– the Kurdish people hang out together you know. We still did not, most of us hang out together, uh during even like lunch time or after school, we would definitely just be together we would go, we lived in like basically in um like housing, it is like projects, we would go play basketball, you know after school and we would do that for two, three hours or we go play soccer and it was just sports, we were mostly into sports, yeah, we did a lot of sports. It was either school or sports. 15:18 EI: So how was the life for your family at that time? I mean, they just tried to survive or uh what was the general– 15:29 AA: I mean yeah, I mean it was not too good, we were living in projects. If you live in projects your life style is not too good you know– 15:37 EI: What do you mean? 15:38 AA: Like projects is like housing when you have a lot of apartments together, and all the apartments look alike, that is like a project you know. And I mean it was mostly like a ghetto basically. Yeah it was a ghetto and we lived in there but we made it, our parents always got us what we wanted and stuff like that, but we were not living in the best style you know but because our dad like my parents they always pushed us towards education, they were like do not worry about work, do not worry about money, do not think about money, my parents always they said that to us, just worry about education and they were right you know. 16:18 EI: And they always supported you for your education. 16:21 A: For the education all the time. And never, never for like for money, they told us do not think about money, [laughter] you know because if you start thinking about money a lot of people they send their kids to work at sixteen and seventeen full time, they will not be able to do school you know. 16:38 EI: Yeah exactly. 16:39 AA: A lot of people, a lot of even Kurdish families even other families did that and yeah, they had nice cars then but now they barely making it and the people who went for education they have nice cars and nice houses, you know. It catches up to you. 16:55 EI: Yeah, exactly I mean it is guarantee for wanting you. Yeah it is good I mean, same with my family, they always supported us to just go to school, just get your education, like graduate from university. So yeah, it is good they have this idea. Okay good, and then high school or? 17:20 AA: Yeah, then Binghamton High School um. 17:23 EI: Where is it? 17:23 AA: Binghamton High School, it is in downtown Main Street in Binghamton. 17:29 EI: How was it? 17:30 AA: It was pretty good, it was pretty average, same thing, mostly, after that I went towards like mostly Kurdish friends, it was probably 80 percent, like 80 to 90 percent of my friends were Kurdish or Bosnian, you know we associate with the Bosnian people a lot. 17:53 EI: Uh how was it different, I mean why, yeah it is cultural but were there any tension between you and others or? 18:01 AA: No I would not say tension, we just knew other families we just go to each other’s houses, we grew up together, we had the same religious background and then we had the same culture, and we understood each other like, you know people, because we tend to stay away from like parties or like drinking, or like going out, that’s what a lot like the other culture they all talked about, parties– Because we did not do any of that stuff, so it was not comfortable for us to hang out with them you know, um and then, we were just comfortable with Kurdish people. 18:42 EI: Yeah, so that is why. Okay, uh were you fighting? [laughs] 18:49 AA: Yeah, I mean there was fight here and there. We had good amount probably through high school three – four fight. [laughter] It happens but you know I mean we grew up in, we understood, I mean it was not– 19:07 EI: What was the main reason behind it? 19:09 AA: I mean mostly it was, um it was mostly just like if we got picked on or something like that, some of us stand up for you know, or some of us just be like whatever but it was me and my brothers and my cousins and stuff like that, there was enough of us that we stand up for ourselves, you know. We would not take. Because I mean we grew up in the environment like we knew if you stand up for yourself they will leave you alone, if you do not stand up for yourself it is going to happened every day. We understood that, so we did not let anybody push us around, we were not crazy but we would stand up for us, and then we got respect for that. We grew up in that environment; we knew how it was– 19:55 EI: Yeah culturally, I mean you should be from Saddam– 19:57 AA: Yeah, yeah, I mean there would never be fights among like us Kurdish people though, rarely like I do not remember ever a Kurdish person fighting a Kurdish person, but I mean if there was another like group of people that wanted to fight us, we would always stand up for ourselves. 20:13 EI: Yeah, okay. So, what do you think about, uh let us back. Have you been in Kurdistan? 20:26 AA: Yeah, after 2003, but my family they go a lot, my parents– 20:32 EI: Why? They miss it or? 20:33 AA: Yeah, they miss it and I mean they got direct family over there– 20:38 EI: Yeah, still got relatives there. 20:41 AA: Yeah, so they go for visit. But for me like they are my relatives and stuff but I do not really know them that well you know. So yeah, I got feelings for them but some of my friends here became my family and they become my friends even when my family in Kurdistan. You know what I am saying. [laughter] It is hard to have that feeling for somebody you never met. 21:03 EI: Yeah, so in 2003 you went there? How was it, what do you remember? 21:10 AA: I mean, it was pretty good, but um like the people over there, they have a different mindset than the people grew up here, you know something we find it funny is not funny to them you know, or something they find funny. [laughter] I am like that is not funny you know. So, it is like two different people you know. Because I grew up over here I like to watch basketball or American football, over there they go crazy about soccer, you know? I like soccer too but for me American football or basketball is more of my type, but if I talk about a basketball player with them they are like what are you talking about who cares, [laughter] and if I talk about American football they going to be like so what, and then we were– it is different mindset stuff, I can definitely tell I was not a 100 percent comfortable over there. 22:01 EI: Yeah okay, just game things were different for you and them? Or– 22:09 AA: No, I mean just even- 22:12 EI: Have you been talking about politics or something– 22:15 AA: Yeah, I mean even like politics, what we are exposed to is different than they are exposed to, what I see on TV, they might not see, but what they see in the country I will not see, you know. 22:26 EI: So, what was the main difference for example? 22:27 AA: Um let us say like, I do not know even, let us say I talked about um North Korean politics or something like that or what is going on in North Korea. They probably did not know that much about North Korea, you know, they did not have when they grew up, they did not have that, they did not really care, I do not know if they did not care or they did not look into like the news stuff like that you know. Over here you are exposed to all the news from all different countries you know, you got Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen all those places you know, for them I do not think they were exposed to that many, that much news or they did not or might not care, but um. I do not know just the stuff I would find fun like going to a movie or something like that, they did not go to movies over there. Very rarely, maybe in the last for-three years they built movie theaters over there. So, for me it would be fun to go watch a movie or you know– 23:27 EI: Actually, maybe it was not possible for them because it is a new established country and- 23:31 AA: Yeah, so for me the fun doing something going for a movie for them something fun is go on the top of a mountain and grill and dance and stuff like that, it is different you know. 23:45 EI: [laughs] Yeah, exactly, exactly, so what is the country for you, I mean, [clears throat] what is Kurdistan for you? 23:57 AA: I mean for me it is, we are really cultural so for us it is always home, you know. That is always home. Every Kurdish person you ever talk to they have intentions to go back sometime you know– 24:12 EI: What about you? 24:13 AA: Huh? For me I mean I want to, but it just going to depend on the situation what I am doing at that time, for me right now I am doing my education and I cannot just get up and leave. I will be working soon. I cannot just get up and leave, but I plan to but it is going to be really hard to find the right time you know. 24:33 EI: Yeah, for the future you are planning or– 24:36 AA: Yeah, like I always had that in the back of my mind but I also know it is going to be very hard because my brothers and sisters are here and I go there it is just going to be hard, and you know. We want to but it is going to be tough, but I mean if the economy, I mean they had a lot to do with the economy, if the economy still gets worse here, because still gets worse and the economy over there is booming right now. You know if it keeps on progressing, I think a lot of us going back and a lot of Kurdish people had already gone back for good. Like there is a good amount of Kurdish people that going back for Kurdistan for good. 25:14 EI: They are going back? 25:16 AA: Yeah, they have. 2517 EI: Really? 25:17 AA: Yeah, over the last eight or nine years like a good amount expressly [especially] from Europe. 25:22 EI: I mean because of job opportunities? 25:24 AA: Yeah, like jobs and um I mean the life style is hard here now, it is not like used to be. You know you use to able to find, you know a lot of people would work here and they just quit their job and the next they go to a different job that is how, in the nineties that is how was Binghamton. 25:43 EI: Yeah. 25:43 AA: You know you can leave job and go to a better job the next day, right now people would never their job you know, you will never find another job if you leave it. So, a lot of people going back. 25:58 EI: Yeah, could you follow, are you following the news in Kurdistan? Like watching TV? 26:04 AA: Yeah, we have Kurdish satellite at the house, you know Kurdish satellite, so we keep up with that here and there. 26:11 EI: What do you think for the recent developments or in general for the country? 26:17 AA: I mean, from what I hear and what I see, I mean if you are talking financially, you the economy is like booming or they are doing really well, and I mean a lot of people over there if you show them a 2006 car they will never drive it, they get I do not want to drive this, they are all driving 2011, 2012 over there, everybody is. So it has changed dramatically but at the same time yeah they are good and wealthier but everybody who goes back there come back and say there is no more, I do not know how to say it in English, you know rahm, like rahm, emotion there is no like connection with the families stuff like that, so yeah they are getting richer but their affection for each other like their love for each other is getting worse. So, the money might be there, but everybody goes back and comes back you know they say there is no more rahm, there is no more affection for each other. 27:21 EI: Yeah, the cultural emotion, yeah, I do not know. 27:26 AA: Yeah it is getting weaker– 27:28 EI: Maybe it is strong in Binghamton, I do not know because there is a good Kurdish community here, their relation is good because for that, I do not know. 27:33 AA: Yeah, it is good here but when they go back to Kurdistan, every year they get richer in Kurdistan but the emotion gets less. 27:45 EI: Yeah good. So, what is the United States for you? 27:46 AA: The United States, I mean that’s, this is where I grew up with at too you know, at the same time it is also home believe it or not. [laughter] so like two homes, it is like having two homes but never feeling like fulfilled, you never full it is like um– 28:07 EI: Both sides maybe you go there you will have the same feelings– 28:13 AA: Yeah, I tell a lot of my friends. 28:15 EI: You miss something here or if you are here you miss something there. 28:17 AA: I tell a lot of my friends I am like you know we are not American and we are not Kurdish, you know it is hard for us– 28:26 EI: Just in between– 28:27 AA: It is really tough because we cannot get along, we get along with American but you cannot live their life style, their life style is different than you know, our life style is different than a regular American you know. I am not going to go out and party, I am not going to out and drink, I just do not like that, you know it is against the religion I do not like it, where I am not going to you know stuff that they find fun I do not find fun you know, I do not want to go on the beach, you know have naked run for no reason, but then if I go back to Kurdistan, we do not, we were not like them either you know, they are different you know, I am not going to go on a mountain and dance for no reason, [laughter] or they like that yeah, or I am not going to go and talk about somebody or like over there it is about power you know, if somebody is more powerful than me I am not going to be like yes sir yes sir, I am not going to be his servant, you know we are not like these people we are different, you know. 29:24 EI: Yeah, exactly. New generation– 29:27 AA: Yeah, we are mixed, we are not like the American, and we are not like the Kurdish people. 29:32 EI: Yeah, what about your father and mother, do they want to go back or? 29:38 AA: I mean sometimes they say yes, but sometimes like over the last time that they have gone, they see that the affection is not the same, it is different you know. Yeah it is better to live but I mean also you over here you got the best doctors you know, over here you never have to worry about corruption, you never have to worry about it really you know, I mean you have your um laws as a citizen, you know, nobody can take your laws [rights] away from you. 30:06 EI: What do you think about corruption, do you believe that there is corruption now or? 30:10 AA: Where? 30:11 EI: In Kurdistan? 30:12 AA: Oh, yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt. It is tough though– 30:17 EI: What kind of corruption? 30:20 AA: Like let us say you want to meet with somebody, you know let us say like a congressman but not even a congressman like a just let us say like a doctor or something, you have to go to a doctor, if you know somebody, you going to be in the waiting room maybe for like six, seven hours and then somebody would walk in and he will go straight to see the doctor, and he will yell at the doctor, if I go and yell at the doctor, they will never see me again, they might even arrest me. There is other people that walk in and yell at the doctor and maybe even give the doctor a smack, and the doctor cannot say anything to them so I mean that is corruption to me or if you want to do your paperwork, if you know people it is going to be easier for you to see the person to do your paperwork. 31:08 EI: Okay, is it so common or in some places? 31:12 AA: Like I have not been there but I mean you hear stories, I do not think, it is not like it is not like horrible but it could be better, it could always be better. I mean it is like over here too, but it is very minimal over here. Like if you know somebody there is a better chance you going to get a job, but it is minimal here, over there it is a little more but hopefully it is going to get better. 31:38 EI: Still I think maybe could not establish a bureaucracy? 31:42 AA: It is tough you know, I mean– 31:44 EI: Still there is family relations, tribal relations– 31:48 AA: And then the older generation has a different mindset, it is going to take maybe a hundred-two hundred years for the mindset to change. The older generation yeah, because– 31:59 EI: But– I think you had different ideas from that so, maybe one or two generation will be– 32:04 AA: Yeah, one or two generation that is probably a hundred years you would say? 31:16 EI: No, maybe ten to thirty years– 32:19 AA: Oh really? Okay. 32:20 EI: Yeah, but okay we do not know what happen because it is not easy to even to talk about one people so for one country for one nation, you do not know that– 32:32 AA: I think it will take some time. 32:35 EI: But you said lots of people are going back to Kurdistan, so– 32:39 AA: Yeah, there is people going back, I think it has to do with both economy– 32:43 EI: And there is a lot of students here as I know outside– 32:46 AA: Yeah, they do send them, they send them but I think a lot of people going back just because of the economy you know, both the economy been bad here and the fact that the economy is still good over there. People go where the money is you know. We came here because of the economy too. You know the economy was horrible there and you know, we were been oppressed we came here for that too. 33:16 EI: Yeah. Not just economy of course– 33:21 AA: Like war. 33:29 EI: Exactly. So yeah, the war, do you think the tension will increase again between Arabs and Kurds there, or? 33:44 AA: Um, to me I think if there ever is going to be a problem is going to be over Kirkuk. That is me personally. 33:52 EI: What? 33:53 AA: Kirkuk, Kirkuk. 33:54 EI: Kirkuk okay. 33:55 AA: I think it is going to be because of that. It is all rich and it is right in the middle. So, I think if they resolve that somehow, you know if they say we split it or something like that I think they resolve that, I do not see why there would be a tension, but I think if there is ever going to be a problem it is going to be over Kirkuk between the Arabs and the Kurdish people and then between Kurdish and the Turkish government I think that is over land you know, if everyone, draw a map you know Turkey is not going to give up their land so but I think between Arabs it is only going to be over Kirkuk that is how see it. 34:36 EI: Do you believe in independence or is it good now for you? 34:40 AA: Um, I mean. 34:40 EI: I mean the recent condition of Kurdistan– 34:45 AA: Oh no, we are not satisfied, Kurdish people are not satisfied with just right now just because there is peace because unless you have your own borders you are not going to feel complete. You want your own property. 35:00 EI: Is it security or just? 35:02 AA: No, you feel more comfortable, like right now if you live in an apartment but you know it is not yours. Once you buy your house, you feel complete, you are like this is my house, this is my stuff. So, I think that is what the boundaries are going to do. So yeah, right now they are living in an apartment but you want your lands, you want to be able like this is mine I control it. 35:26 EI: So, I mean if there is like a referendum or something, you will vote for independence, is it right? 35:32 AA: Yeah, if they even let us vote over here sometimes, even for their stuff over there like we will drive to Washington and we will vote for presidency and stuff like that for Iraq. 35:47 EI: You are citizen of both countries, right? 35:49 AA: Yes. 35:49 EI: Okay, good, double citizenship. 35:52 AA: Yeah. 35:52 EI: Yeah. Do you need to serve in army or something is there anything like that? 35:59 AA: No. 35:59 EI: No? You do not need to. 36:01 AA: No. 36:02 EI: Yeah, okay Good. Yeah, perfect. So, in the United States I mean another identity is Islam, Muslim as you said. So, did you have any difficulties here? 36:16 AA: No, not– 36:18 EI: In school, in college, in work, in your job, in your environment– 36:23 AA: Um. I mean if ever there was, it is not that they would come in person and say, if there ever it was they kept it inside they might tell somebody else but– 36:33 EI: Do you feel something? 36:35 AA: Very rarely. Um I am trying to think of it, any moment– 36:39 EI: Especially after like 9/11. 36:41 AA: No. I never really thought, just because the way I dress the way I act I think it is not like I dress with the Islamic traditional cloth or the way, I mean my English is not like, you can tell it is not I just came to the country or something like that. So, I think that helps. But um– 37:08 EI: If it was not, would it be difficult or? 37:14 AA: I think it might be, yeah, if I dressed up in Muslim clothes and I went to Walmart, I am sure people look at me differently than right now I am dressed up as it Nike or North Face in I wear Adidas and I just go the store, people look at me differently like I am dressed casual. I think dressing has a lot to do with it. And then um I think dressing has a big impact on it and you know just the style of my hair or stuff like that. 37:44 EI: But for example, in school or something when you said like I am Muslim, it is not problem right? 37:48 AA: No. it was not a problem. Really was never a problem because I grew up in a school very diverse, you know it is very diverse. I mean probably white people are the minority in my school, you know it was like pretty, it was almost like that. But other schools I have heard stuff like that, especially in Nashville like the richer areas like in Brentwood because Nashville has about fifteen to twenty thousand Kurdish people. 38:16 EI: Oh, that much? 38:17 AA: Yeah, and they would say the richer school that is like a Republican state, Tennessee is and there is a lot, there is racist people there. And they would have a lot of problems over there. You know kids would get picked at because they were Muslim and stuff like that so in the South it happens a lot more and the North to be honest I cannot remember ever happening to me. 38:50 EI: Yeah, okay. Will you visit next time Kurdistan– 38:54 AA: Oh yeah, for sure. 38:55 EI: When? 38:57 AA: I have been over the last six years extremely busy with my school and work and stuff like that. 39:05 EI: You went in 2003 you said right? 39:07 AA: Yeah, in 2003. So, I mean I came back and I started college a couple years after that so– 39:11 EI: How was the physical conditions when you went there? 39:15 AA: What do you mean by that? The environment– 39:19 EI: I mean service sector, the buildings, the roads– 39:22 AA: I mean they were– 39:23 EI: It is now much better, right? Completely different. 39:25 AA: Yeah like, I mean over there when I use to go there, there is a couple areas I used to walk to the market you know, and I would walk to the market and for about half mile like to almost a mile on both sides was a rural, like it was not established it was just like dirt roads and stuff like that, and my sister was telling me now, telling me about that and she is like the whole mile is all store now, two three buildings, she is like if you go there you will not recognize it. And have like a Domino’s Pizza and they have a lot of like American restaurants, just to give you like the price of property, in that area you could probably buy a piece of a good amount for let us say ten thousand dollars, right now it would be worth a hundred twenty thousand dollars, same spot just ten different years you know so it is like you know I ‘ve known people who bought property for nine thousand dollars and they sold the property for ninety-five thousand like last year, I mean the economy is like it is going crazy over there. 40:38 EI: Do you think it will continue like that or? 40:42 AA: Personally, I have no idea– EI: Actually, it is oil rich country– 40:48 AA: Yeah, it is like Dubai, I mean Dubai climax too though, you know right now if you go to a lot of their buildings are empty you know the skyscrapers there is a lot of, and Dubai they were one worse hit you know, but so you never know when it is going to stop, it is going to eventually stop but it might not be for another ten or fifteen years, you know. 41:09 EI: Oh, not near future. 41:10 AA: I do not see it no. There is just so much money in the country right now. There is so much business and there is, it is really incredible. 41:16 EI: Is there any investment like factories or industry? 41:22 AA: See that is another problem, when we are talking about corruption I mean it is hard for normal person to go there let us say open up a factory without somebody else being like you have to give me 25 or 30 percent. That is one of the thing– that is one of the biggest things I do not like about it. And I mean I do not know I hope that changes because I am not going to go open up a factory if they take 30 percent for no reason, if they tell me okay, it is tax, I will be like you know, but that is a thing over here they do the same thing, you know if you have a multi-million company they take 40 percent from you, you know. They do that over here but over there they do not say it is for tax, they just say you have to give it to me so I think the people over there get upset you know, if they say it is for tax and this and that, maybe they work around it, that is what they do here, but over there they really do not have tax you know, so they just take it from the people, so it is like I do not want to do that. 42:22 EI: Yeah, oaky. Yeah, I hope they will all comment. Okay, so your relation with Americans is still same or still you are more integrated or hang out more with Kurds? 42:34 AA: I mean right now, I am not at a point if I would say 95 percent of my, the people I affiliate with are either Kurdish or like I got some Ukrainian friends or Bosnian friends, like rarely I do not really associate with any Americans to be honest. 42:53 EI: Will you marry with Americans? Is it possible? 42:57 AA: No. 42:57 EI: Why? 42:58 AA: No, I mean just one is religion, that is the number one thing. And then also to be honest it is culturally, we tend to like marry in our culture. 43:13 EI: It will be a Kurd. 43:14 AA: Yeah, it will be a Kurd. It is going to be a Muslim you know. But most likely like 95 percent it is going to be a Kurd if not, it has to be a Muslim. 43:32 EI: Okay, Yeah. Good. Thank you so much. It is almost forty-five minutes. 43:40 AA: I talk fast, so that is why. 43:42 EI: No that is fine. I mean uh- (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Amin Amin https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d82085e642543d7b607856f43e46f572.mp3 9a9e1b8f7e53a7ae62d90a0d11fcca42 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Biographical Text Anastasiya Lyubas is a PhD candidate in the Department of Comparative Literature at Binghamton University. She is originally from Lviv, Western Ukraine. After graduation, she wants to teach in Europe. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Maria Shulga and Sulim Kim Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Anastasiya Lyubas Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:14 minutes Date of Interview 2015-03-30 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Lyubas, Anastasiya. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian;  Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History Ukrainian; Identity; Culture; Education; Americanization. OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=AnastasiyaLyubas.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Graduate students, Foreign; Translators; Ethnic identity Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Anastasiya Lyubas Interviewed by: Maria Shulga and Sulim Kim Transcriber: Maria Shulga and Sulim Kim Date of interview: 30 March 2015 at 12:00 PM Interview Setting: Bartle Library, Room 4520A at Binghamton University -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Maria Shulga: Hello Anastasiya. Again, my name is Maria and this is Sulim and we are going to ask you some questions today. Sulim, would you like to start with your question? Sulim Kim: Sure. Anastasiya, we just wanted you to introduce yourself to the audience. Anastasiya Lyubas: Great. First of all, thank you so much for interviewing me, it's a pleasure. My name is Anastasia and, as you know, I am a PhD student here at Binghamton. To tell you a little bit about myself, this is my third year in the US, I've come here as a Fulbright grantee to do my Master's at Binghamton University. Primarily, I came here to study at the Translation and Research program. They have a very good program here and I was considering applying for PhD. I ended up joining a PhD program in Comparative Literature, but did my Master's in Translation. My Master's entailed taking courses with translation workshops that would allow me to get both Master's in Comparative Literature and a certificate in Translation, which was Russian-English translation in that case. I am originally from Lviv, which is Western Ukraine. I know that in your course [HIST-381D: "Borderlands of Eastern Europe"] you study Galicia as a region, so that might be of some interest to you. When I talk about my identity, my city is very important to me. So, whenever somebody asks me where I'm from, I wouldn't say, "I'm from Ukraine," I would say, "I'm from Lviv, Ukraine," because that city identity shaped me, and who I am, and how I view the world in many different ways. I don't know what else you need to know about me. Should I talk about my family background? MS: Yes, we are interested in you childhood stories, how you grew up, what kind of family you had, what languages you spoke in your household-- AL: Yes, so I was born in 1989, which was when the USSR was still around. But I grew up in the 90s, which was the period right after Ukraine gained its independence. It was a very interesting time to grow up in, a very challenging time, because there were all kinds of transitions going on. I was born in the city and I lived in one of these residential districts that you probably see with the Soviet-block-type of buildings. So I grew up in a huge apartment building in a family that had all kinds of different linguistic and ethnical backgrounds. My father's family (his parents, my grandparents) was moved from Poland during the operation called "Wisła," in which ethnical Ukrainians were moved from Polish territories where they used to live. It happened in the 1947, so my grandma was Ukrainian and my grandpa was Polish, but they still got moved to Ukraine and they lived in a small town near Lviv, so that part of the family is Ukrainian- and Polish-speaking. My mother's side of the family is also very diverse, because my grandpa comes from a family, who was German but they lived in the Soviet Union and had to in a way hide their identity. For the most part, that side of the family spoke Russian and they lived in Volyn region, which is a region in the North of Ukraine. They took on Russian names, so, for instance, my great-grandma was called Berta, which is a German name, but then she called herself Vera, which is a very Russian name. The fact that they were German was never mentioned for obvious reasons, for the reason of living in the Soviet Union. So my grandpa came to Lviv to study in a university and he met my grandma, whose family used to live in the region of Galicia. This is how they met. My parents both lived in the city; my mother was originally born in the city and my father was born in a small town of the Lviv region, but then came to Lviv to study, which was a very typical move -- to go the city from smaller towns and villages. So they stayed and my sister and I were born in Lviv. A couple of interesting stories that I remember from my childhood-- So, Soviet industry was dissolving at the time with the emergence of new markets and capitalism. In the 90s there was this very strange barter economy, which I'll try to explain the best I can. It is actually a funny story. My grandpa studied chemistry and he worked at a glass factory in Lviv, which was one of the factories that were established during the Soviet times. They had a lot of problems with the workers not getting paid. Factories in different industries had ties that existed during the Soviet Union, so, for instance, his glass factory was in cooperation with a sugar-making factory. What happened was that his factory instead of paying salary to the workers would give them salary in glass. Then they had to trade these glass products or sell them and get something else in return. So my grandpa would give someone a set of glasses and they would then give a bag of sugar in return. [Laughing] This is what I remember from my childhood. It is important to also say that we lived in an apartment with an extended family, so it wasn't just my family, which was my mother, father, sister, and me, but also my grandparents, so this is why I remember all these stories. My grandparents were involved in bringing up their grandchildren, so we lived in more of a communal situation. All my life I've lived in apartments, and I think this is interesting in American context, where public housing is not as common. You would usually be brought up in a family house, in a family home, apartment is seen as a temporary space, temporary residence. But in my case we moved from one apartment to another and all my life I spent in apartments, I never had a house. I think my notion of a home for myself looks more like an apartment. MS: So you would prefer an apartment to a house even if you had a choice? AL: I think so. Also because when I lived in this apartment building there were obviously a lot of kids my age and we used to play outside all the time, which is something that doesn't really happen anymore as much. I mean, the apartment buildings are still there and most of the people who live in the city still live in these residential districts with huge apartment blocks, but of course kids play video games now or they are on their computer all the time, so nobody plays outside as much. For me, playing outside and staying up late, especially in the summer, with the neighbor kids was a very fun part of my childhood. MS: That is very interesting. Did you mostly speak Ukrainian at home? AL: Yes, my parents are Ukrainian-speaking, but I grew up with different languages. Obviously, I was also growing up with Russian because of the television and the books. In Western Ukraine, Russian was not taught at schools as widely after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, so schools started taking out Russian and Russian literature as courses from their curricula. I went to a Ukrainian school, so I was not officially schooled in Russian language or literature until my family actually moved to Kiev, where I went to elementary school. This is where I learned Russian in an actual school setting. In my school in Lviv, I learned Ukrainian and World Literature, of which Russian Literature was just a part. However, my World Literature teacher was a former teacher of Russian Literature, so that was an interesting change. But as I said, I grew up with Russian informally, I guess. And while we spoke Ukrainian at home, my great grandpa's side of the family spoke Russian to me. I also watched a lot of Polish cartoons, because of the proximity to Poland, so that was the kind of background I was growing up with. I think it was also important that my mother as a student worked as a tour guide with Yugoslav tourists who would come to the Soviet Union. She worked in a bureau, the name of which I cannot remember exactly, but it was something along the lines of "intourist," ("интурист") which meant "иностранный турист," translated as "foreign tourist" bureau. She was trained in Serbo-Croatian and she gave tours of my city mostly to the students who would come from Yugoslavia. I am not sure about Kiev, but I know for sure she gave tours of Moscow and St.-Petersburg or Leningrad at the time. This is why we had a bunch of Serbo-Croatian books, for children as well. I grew up with all these different languages because I was looking at Serbo-Croatian children's books, watching Polish cartoons-- SK: Could you read and understand them? AL: I wouldn't say that I know Serbo-Croatian, but when my mom read the books to me, I would understand. I guess I have a certain linguistic talent in Polish, since I figured out Polish on my own early on, and then I learned Polish grammar and actually went to Warsaw to study Polish later. By learning Polish I could understand Czech a little bit, since Czech and Polish are very similar to each other, sort of like Russian and Ukrainian. So if a Czech person was speaking Czech to me, I would probably answer in Polish, but I would understand what they had said in Czech, although I would not be able to speak Czech. I suppose that was my linguistic background. SK: That's amazing! MS: Yes, that is fascinating. You said that your mother used to be a tour guide, meaning that she was probably interested in history and arts, but your grandfather was a chemist. What inspired you to go into the field of translation and comparative literature? AL: Let me start by saying that even in high school I was really into languages. We learned English from the first grade and I also took German a little later when I was in seventh grade I think. We had courses of Latin, so I learned Latin as well and I also really enjoyed World Literature. It was all subconscious at that point, because I was still trying to figure out which university to enter and which program. I decided to major in English language and literature and I entered a university at my hometown and my program also provided translation studies training, both practice and theory. That became my main focus -- English-Ukrainian and English-Russian translation. After I got my degree, I worked for a while and got my Master's in simultaneous interpreting there, which was a one-year program. After that I worked a little bit as an interpreter and a translator at my hometown. By deciding to apply for Fulbright, I was looking at translation research programs in the US, which are not many. There were probably five programs that I was considering and Binghamton was one of them. It is actually one of the oldest programs they have here in translation research. This is how I ended up coming here. My interest in languages was really strong throughout my school years and later as a student when I took on all these other languages like Polish, and even studied Swedish for a little bit. Even here at Binghamton I took a course in Yiddish, partially as a hobby, but also as a professional linguistic type of thing. MS: With all of this background, what is it that you expect to possibly study in the future? What would be your "dream job"? AL: I am doing my PhD in Comparative Literature right now and what I'm interested in is the interwar period in the XX century, and all kinds of writings, which are usually seen as minor literature from Eastern and Central Europe that articulate ideas of alternative modernity as opposed to Western narratives of modernity. I am using my languages to look at these literatures and I see myself teaching in the future and doing research, so I would hope to work at a university. I really enjoy academia and I think this is pretty much the path I have chosen for myself even when I was still doing a more practical kind of training. For instance while doing the Master's in interpreting I was still hoping to not just enter the professional field as a translator and interpreter, but be in academia. Being an academic also allows you to do translation if you'd like, so you can still translate literary texts, but I see that more as my side interest at the moment. I want to do more with translation than just translate texts. SK: Before we go further, I wanted to ask you about your city. You said that national identity is a city identity for you. Why is Lviv so significant to you? Has it influenced you in choosing your career or other aspects of your life? AL: Thank you for the question. Lviv is an interesting city because it used to be very multicultural and it still is, but not in the same way that it used to be, especially before World War II. It is one of the cities where we had one of the biggest Jewish populations back in the times of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which unfortunately disappeared for tragic historical events that we all know of, like Holocaust. Later, the remnants of the Jewish population that were still there during the Soviet times immigrated to Israel when it was established as a state. Many people immigrated to other countries as well. It is very tragic to know that history, but still at the time when I was growing up not having many Jewish communities (religious and schools). The city also has a strong sense of Polish past. Galicia was a very contested territory because there were Western Galicia and Eastern Galicia. Western Galicia is now a part of Poland, while Eastern Galicia is a part of Ukraine with Lviv being in Eastern Galicia. There were multiple claims to Lviv being a Polish city and not a Ukrainian city. There is a lot of heritage of tourism going on from Poland: many tourists coming and exploring their heritage, their roots. There were multiple wars and conflicts, so it is very hard to reconcile historical memory in that sense. Living in the city really exposes you to all of these different influence; linguistic, historical, ethnic. You grow up with a sense of history, because you can see the different architecture that dates from XIII century and different periods in architecture, so it's a good city to learn your architectural styles too. It has a very strong cultural element. For instance, we have this coffee culture. When you come to Lviv, you have a sense that you come to a city that is very much like Krakow or maybe a little bit like Prague, so it has a Western sensibility, but at the same time it finds itself in the reality of Ukraine and it's unlike many other places in Ukraine. If somebody wanted to see something that reminds them of Europe, but is not quite Europe, they would go to Lviv. That is why I think it determines me a lot as I think it would if somebody said that they are from, let's say, Donetsk or somewhere in Eastern Ukraine that place also shapes who you are and your outlook. I think this is very visible. These kinds of divisions are also visible in the recent conflict and everything that is going on in Ukraine right now. I would affirm that it is more complex than just seeing the East versus the West because there are very strong regional identities that are more pluralized than just this dichotomy of the East versus the West, which we see with places like Odessa. It is a port city near the Black Sea, it is in the South and it is close to Crimea, the territory that was contested. Odessa is predominantly a Russian-speaking region with a very strong Jewish sensibility as well. Their sympathies do not necessarily lie with the sympathies of people in Western Ukraine, but neither do they lie with Russia that easily. I guess what I'm trying to say is that all these regional identities influence the larger picture. MS: Yes, most of the time people just think that there is the East and the West and they are fighting against each other, but it is very important to remember that there are many more ideological groups involved. SK: Yes, absolutely. You also just mentioned something about Lvivian culture. Could you expand a little bit and tell us something interesting about it? AL: Yes, something interesting-- I haven't been to Lviv for three years now, but I am going to go this summer, which I think will be interesting for me to see all the new things that emerged when I was not there. Now there is this move in placing Lviv on the map of the world in terms of tourism and global capital flows, in a way, because it is not a city that is as well known as Prague, for instance. In Prague tourists are already capitalized upon in such a great way: you have all these souvenirs, places you have to visit, things you have to see and try, and they are "commodified". In Lviv now they are also trying to do the same; trying to develop tourism and infrastructure to a large extent. I mentioned the coffee culture, and indeed the city is trying to capitalize on its multicultural heritage. There would be this Jewish restaurant where you would have to bargain for the price of the food that you are getting. Or there would be this café that is seemingly a café of free masons where you would have codes of initiation. Or there would be a café dedicated to masochism where you could get whipped by the waiter if you liked, because, you know, the writer Masoch (Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch, 1836 --1895) was born in Lviv. It changed from the places that were authentic to the tourist attractions, which of course every city in Europe capitalizes on. Like, where do you go in Paris to find "real" Paris and not "tourist" Paris? So I see this move to a large extent in Lviv. SK: Do you like it? AL: I think it's problematic in many ways. It does draw people in and there's more interest, but it is a part of the global market culture, which is problematic. You get places like American restaurants, which are everywhere else in the world. Therefore, a little bit of authenticity is lost there. MS: You said you haven't been to Lviv in three years now. How did your relocation affect your family? And what do you miss most about home when you are here? AL: I think largely what you miss once you move from a place is that of course the kinds of ties, meaning family ties and relationships that you've had there, in a way they go to the background, because it is very hard to keep these relationships when you are not physically there. It's hard but at the same time you move here and you have a circle of friends that you are creating for yourself. While there you have all these family ties that are in the way you haven't chosen, they were imposed on you. You have to communicate with your extended family but also in here you don't have to go to family events. Instead, you pursue these elective affinities and ties with your friends here who do come from both upstate New York and from other countries in the world, you have friends from Tunis or Hong Kong, and different places. You think on the personal and interpersonal level, that's the major change and there is also for preparing for going back after three years and seeing things differently where there is culture shock when you come here. There is also the reverse culture shock that happens after sometime abroad. SK: We are all international student so we know about that story. MS: Yeah. AL: So you guys also go back and forth. SK: Yeah, I have been here like two years and I will go back in Korea during the summer. Speaking of which, have you experience that you have to compromise in a way in terms of your culture since you are live in America currently? I personally, in Korea, when you have to say hello to older people, like your professor, you have to bow to them. Here, I have to stop myself because professors here are not use to it. [All laugh] AL: You also notice these things about yourself that you become Americanized in certain ways! Yes, It happened. So for instance, what I found about American culture is definitely more informal. In terms of relationships you have. The relationships at the workplace or at a university there are levels of formality, Ukraine and Russia, too, and it is different how the students treat the professors. To have the versions of the pronoun you is honorific and you in the plural that you address to the professor or anyone who is older than you or has a higher social standing. No distinction here but I couldn't call my professor by their first name for the first year at least [in America]. I am still more formal when I talk to professors than my American peers just because of the cultural difference. MS: So when you came here first did you encounter any stereotypes about your culture or have you had any stereotypes that disappeared or like otherwise strengthened as you came here? AL: Stereotypes about America you mean? MS: Yeah and otherwise or Americans about you? AL: Okay. When I was looking at Binghamton as a university, I only see the university itself, nothing others. However, if you guys might not notice about but Johnson City is a huge eastern European community which something surprised me that there are communities like Ukrainians, Russians, Polish, Slavs and etc. in Binghamton! Diasporas there has to be some sort of center around which you structure your community life. You can see even when you driving in Clinton St, for instance, you see all these so many of eastern churches specifically on every block. There is Ukrainian restaurant here, so there's a little bit of Ukrainian culture present in this town. I don't necessary interact with diaspora as much and I think its for all kinds of reasons. Once you live in the diaspora, I think my encounters especially from with me and some of the Ukrainian diasporans in New York City. In the diaspora, they always try to prove to you as someone who is actually coming from Ukraine that they are more Ukrainian than you are and that usually means like you are sticking to traditions in terms of the food that they eat wearing traditional clothes they even one person ask me if I still speak Ukrainian and they try to make me. So, I went into this shop in east village. There is Ukrainian community and I went into this store where they sold all kinds of meats and the owner of the store, I think maybe he is the fourth generation. He actually asked me if I read and write in Ukrainian and he made me read something in Ukrainian which was very strange. So, with the diaspora the way they project certain kind of identity it's you have to say well you know I don't necessary have the same preferences because diaspora identity already incorporates with some sort of stereotypes about the kind of religion or the kinds of food and things like that. Which are of course the kinds of food and the kinds of attractions within the community that also become Americanized so it is a little strange once you only come to states and you see Ukrainians diaspora here. You come from Ukraine there is obvious differences. And they think there is. In the diaspora, sort of distrust, I don't know how to explain it, the diaspora try to say that they are Ukrainian although they are not in many ways. Being part of the academic community you are not necessarily. I didn't encounter as much stereotypes people would not ask me, "You are from Ukraine"--. I don't know they wouldn't invoke a certain type of stereotype when trying to find of course they wouldn't ask me how is over there and I think they ask me more now other than what happens in Ukraine other than and limited knowledge I can also perceive through media coverage and also talking to friends there, but still there is a media account. As for the stereotypes that I have for Americans-- I don't have strong stereotypes about Americans. I can think of right now-- I am-- SK: How about just different characters, culture or different habits between America and Ukraine? Did you find out while you studied in here? For instance, Asian said American are too open compare to Asian culture-- AL: I didn't have a stereotypes that they were too opened, but I think there is definitely the way the people Americans relate to others is very different than I relate to people. So for instance, in general, I can't call my friend to anyone. But I feel like-- in America, where people are just acquaintances they "oh this is my friend" and for me as a Slavs, I have six friends that I know for ten years that be able to call them friends. So I guess, there are enjoyable differences between Ukraine and America. MS: So onto the next questions, the news in US, I don't know if I mention it yet, but I am from Moscow and for instance whenever I talk to my parents or my friends and I tell them about the news I hear they tell me that is drastically different from what they hear on the news from so for instance like, if I watch CNN or what main channels that we have here is different to what is heard back at home. Is that similar for you have you encountered stuff like that? AL: Yes. Are you referring to the coverage of the current crisis? MS: Yeah. AL: Current Crisis--definitely-- I am try to get my news from variety of sources. I would watch Ukraine channels. You can't get a lot channels in TV, but we have online stream. Or I watch and read some Russian news but also I get some news from western European sources from Austria and Germany. Because I found western European covered over the conflicts better than America Medias. In America, there is very reputable sources, mainstream, such as New York Times which you would guess that they are unlimited coverage. However, they are sometimes too dramatic. For instance, current the downing of the airplane, you know that happened in-- SK: In Germany? AL: Yes, exactly. Things like that. You would get these kinds of events but not others. That is very disconnected because of opinion pieces and there are political bias that are influenced by political divisions in this country. The more conservation pieces versus the more progressives. Something like that. I find that interesting and that's why I'm trying to follow informal channels of communication through talk to my friends in Ukraine and also in Russia or any other countries. Because you have to be very proactive and seeking out to get this information. SK: That is so true!  Since we're talking about media representations, did you remember any description of Ukraine in American media that interests you? Or vice versa-- AL: That interests me-- yes, I want to talk about--What I notice in American media, their interests in trying to explain where Ukraine is or why does it find itself in current conflict. Therefore, in media, there is articles written about the current crisis with a lot of references to history or a lot of tracings of how the Ukrainian map used to look in different times. I recently read this article in Washington Post where it was trying to explain different territories that Ukraine used to occupy in the nineteenth century from the empires that Russian Empire and then Austro-Hungarian Empire, and you know like the Poland occupied history. And later the USSR added Ukraine in 1954 and then now it partially part of Russia again. I find that many of the articles are much more sensitive to explaining that kind of historical and cultural knowledge just because you need to gather understand before you are able to? I think they judges what is happened. If especially someone who were not even expert of Ukraine history or east European history or Russian history, it would be really difficult to do so.  So definitely notice that. I follow publication, I really like N+1 magazines. They actually had a very nice articles talked by Keith Gessen. I believe that this journalist come from Moscow, his parents were come from Moscow, but they all immigrants to United States. He talks about Putin Russia and Ukraine current crisis and he's trying to explain it. Obviously, his perspective is related to immigrants' eyes and someone who has the Russian background as well. So, he's trying to make some balance what people think Russia and the current conflicts in Ukraine which was a good talk. So, yes, I read a lot of articles from N+1 and also magazines such as Jordan Russian Center. I visit this website frequently and I found that they have some pretty good articles and analytical information about Ukraine conflict. As I said, if you trying to find it, you can find decent article in here, too. However, you 'have' to seek it out. SK: If my understanding was right, it was happened to me, too. If I want to know something deep information about current issues in Korea, I am searching Korean journals along with American Medias. Because when it comes to Korea related issues, Korean journals have more amount of information-- more importantly, they have better explanation mostly, because they understand and know much well about situation. AL: Yes, exactly. Yes. MS: So I got one last question, with all of these influences you had in your life, and especially lived in Lviv and Polish and any other Eastern European experiences, and you move into America and living in here. How do you identify yourself? What are you more? Like Ukrainian, or Polish-- SK: Maybe Lvivian? MS: Doing in a percentage way, what would you be? AL: That's a very difficult question. Because I think that moving into different place, definitely, messing with you in certain ways. I wouldn't say that. I did not choose to move into America. I am not an immigrant. I can't say I am not Ukrainian-American. I am not a second generation of immigrant family. That's not my identity. I am just a Ph.D. student who studying in America. You know, I have this displace identity. For instance, I don't necessarily see myself who only have to working in Ukraine. I like to keep that open for me. Once, I get my Ph.D. I am considering maybe going and working in Central European University in Budapest, Hungary because they have a really good program. I love to work in such place like that. Or I wouldn't mind to working in Poland and teaching there. Of course, I would say that I am Ukrainian. But when I'm saying that I am Ukrainian, it doesn't explain something. For me, it doesn't really determine that kind of-- how should I put it. I am struggling how to say this right-- Let's say, it doesn't define my political sympathy. Let's say, when I say that I am Ukrainian, I am not saying that I am "Ukrainian" in a very nationalistic way. Because, personally, I don't identify myself who is a patriotic and nationalistic person in that way. Whenever somebody wants to speak in Russian to me, I would never say, I am not going to speak to you because I am Ukrainian. So, yes, I am a Ukrainian. But--. MK: Yes, but not the strong kind of.. AL: Yes. Actually I never was. This emerging of nationalistic, far-right wing policy-- this emphasizing national proud thing-- kind of scared and warn me. Because I would see that this kind of nationalistic souvenirs like t-shirts with Ukraine flags or anything could appealing Ukraine's. It is something I would expect to happen in this states, because you commonly fetishize your identity a lot in diaspora society. Anyways, I was never identify myself with them. My parents never emphasized those sayings that you have to proud of your country. Once I see that, I can explain, the rise of nationalism. You know, of course, those conflicts people made antagonized to certain extends, but it does seem a little foreign to me. MS: Do you think it wouldn't be different if you were still there? AL: Well, I mean obviously, if you are in the middle of conflicts, you will be more tangled. And those conception of news will be on much bigger and larger basis than what you are hear in here. You don't have to experience the war under level of--. People have to see that soldiers and soldiers are dead and buried-- and the large number of refugees. This is not something what I see on the daily basis. So it is hard for me to tell how I would react in that situation. But I have my own strong opinion about something that I dislike and like toward to Ukrainian at this moment. For instance, it pains me to see that in my city there were many people who wear opposing side to refugees who have been in Eastern Ukraine and starts the moving. They were moving to western Ukraine but also to Russia and any other countries. And many people who wear engaging with other and displace people, people saying that 'oh, you don't have a job.' Why do they have to move here, and take our job, we don't have enough housing, and they change a city a lot that kind of thing. That kind of fear-- it is really hard to move and trying to understand other person and where they come from and what they are bring. I have privilege to looking at that of perspectives as an outsider. I am not saying that it makes me more objectives perspectives. But I see discontents. I'm seeing things in this very reductive way. SK:  I see-- but you said you will go back to Ukraine in this summer and your family have been lived there. Therefore, about the current or any past conflicts, could it be a personal as well to you--perhaps? AL: First, how my family was affected by conflicts--yes, they were affected it to economic situation. You know, Ukraine economic is in really bad shape, right now. And the currency rate is horrible. For instance, when I left there, you can change the Hryvnia, Ukraine currency, to US Dollar in 80 Hryvnia to 1 Dollar. And there were a part time of conflict to recently where it reached to 30 hryvnia to 1 dollar which was really dramatic. You can see the price rise of daily basic goods as well. I think that's how my family is affected because they have no money for that much. They hasn't been that place long-- And also we have no experiences like some member of our family were killed. And also they lived in western Ukraine which is relatively a shelter from the conflicts of Ukraine. So, they mostly not see that in person. They could see in media, but they are not experienced that themselves. So, I would say that I would not need to expose to violence. SK: So, there are several scenery in current Ukraine besides the physical violence aspects. AL: Yes. SK: Thank you. I guess that was our last question. Because now we already reached the 1 hour-- MS: Yes, I believe so. Thank you so much sharing. It was really productive. SK:  It was! MS: Thank you for your time and efforts-- SK: --and good luck with the last of your semester. AL: Thank you. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anastasiya Lyubas Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Lyubas, Anastasiya ; Shulga, Maria ; Kim, Sulim Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Anastasiya Lyubas is a PhD candidate in the Department of Comparative Literature at Binghamton University. She is originally from Lviv, Ukraine. After graduation, she wants to teach in Europe. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-03-30 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AnastasiyaLyubas.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2018-04-09 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 58:14 Subject The topic of the resource Lyubas, Anastasiya. --Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Russians--United States; Diaspora, Ukrainian;  Ethnic identity; Borderlands -- Poland -- History Ukrainian; Identity; Culture; Education; Americanization. https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a66cc6f81cf3ba6948485673c63474c0.mp3 b8b2610fe141e666742058268804bf32 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Goida, Andrew Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-01-02 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 46:03 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55928">Interview with Andrew Goida</a> Subject LCSH Goida, Andrew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Ansco Company; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Housing Program Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Andrew Goida Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 2 January 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Andrew Goida at 713 Dickson St., Endicott, NY, on January 2, 1978. I understand you worked in a cigar factory here in Binghamton some years ago. We are especially interested in this industry because we don't know much about it. Why don't we start with the time you started work there? Just tell me how you got the job, what you did, what other people did to prepare the tobacco and make the cigars and just everything you remember about the operation of the factory. Andy, do you want to start talking? Andy: Well, I'll give the—when I got started—about in 1927, and what, we went, I got a job—what the stop—the tobacco—then we used to lay it out to dry—a little bit—we didn't wet it too much—just lay it out to dry a little bit—then we—it was our job to give it to the women on the machine so they would roll the cigars—so they would have to stretch it in the drum—the leaf—and they used to use the other—the ones we didn't wet the tobacco to the inside—break that and roll that one leaf on a drum and just roll—wrap the cigar up and then would cut them so long. And there were lots of women—young and old, different kind were working. Nettie: What was exactly your job? Andy: My job was supposed to wet the tobacco—in our room where I worked—there were 3 vats of water and we used to dip them in the water a little bit and shake them around so the tobacco would get nice and soft—it wouldn't crack up or anything like that. And they were making White Owl cigars and what other cigars, I don’t know—and that was the name of the factory on Emma Street there. Nettie: What was the name of the factory? Andy: White Owl. Nettie: No, what was the name of the factory? Andy: Well, it was on Emma Street and that was the name of the factory at that time—what they called it was the White Owl factory, as far as I know. Nettie: They did? About what year did you go to work? Andy: About 1927. I worked for two years there. Nettie: How old were you when you started working? Andy: Fourteen years. Then the boss, I don't know what his name is, I had—he was an old fellow, he come from the South with the company when they come up, and bought the factory or rented it or something to make the cigars. Nettie: Now this tobacco came from the South? Andy: Yup. Nettie: Do you have any idea where it came from? Andy: No. It came from there, someplace. Nettie: Now, when it came here, do you know how it came? Was it transported by truck or rail? Andy: Railroad. Yes. That boss of mine, he was an old guy when I come there, he must’ve been in his 60s then, but he, I guess must’ve been with the company all his life, pretty near. Nettie: When this tobacco came in they had to store it someplace— Andy: Oh yeah, they had the big upstairs, second floor was filled with tobacco, all over the place there. Nettie: How did they store it, in bins? Andy: In bins, yeah, yeah. They had a lot of workers up there—unloading the thing and stocking them up there— Nettie: How was it up there? Windows closed? Andy: Yeah, you just had to have so much air in there—it couldn't be too dry—had to be a little damp, was dusty as heck, you know—that's how they had to keep it, damp so that the tobacco would not dry up and crumble, them leaves, you know. So, leaves, they had them like in the bins, where they were hanging them up, you probably seen them on television now, when a walks—to a cigar factory where they have tobacco hanging up—and he walks and gets a leaf and spreads it out, he will taste or test it out or he'll put a cigar under it to light the tobacco, and he smells it to see if it is the right smell, so that's what they used to do there. Nettie: So, before the tobacco was distributed to the different people, they first had to be dipped in the water which was in the vats? Andy: Yeah, everybody had their job to do. You wouldn't put all of it. Nettie: No, but do you have any idea of the other jobs? Andy: No, not too much, because you were not allowed to go all over the factory, at that time—they were pretty strict, you know, they tried to keep all in one room where you were working, you know. Nettie: Is this all you did, was dip this tobacco in the water? Andy: Yes—well, we had that job and we had to sort it—them out to the women. Nettie: How did you sort it out? Andy: Well, so many bunches to each one, you know, so we made sure they had enough to work with for eight hours. Nettie: When you sorted it out to the women, what kind of a job did they have? Andy: Their job was just to roll the cigars, you know. They were rollers—they were rollers—just to roll the cigars. Nettie: How was the procedure to roll the cigar? Andy: Well, they had a drum, I don’t know, it was about 10 inches long or wide, you know—and they just put that leaf on that roller—and made sure it was spread out so when it goes in there it is flattened out so that it cut the leaf right in half—the knife was in the middle so they, so that one half a leaf rolled the cigar up and the other half of the leaf would roll the other cigar up, then slice it up, push it on the side. Then it was— Nettie: Was this work done by hand? Andy: No, it was done by machine—they roll the cigars by machine—and then they had somebody else come and go around where the women were working by their machine and picking up all them cigars and taking them along to the packing room, so they could pack them up. That's the only thing I know of. Nettie: How were you paid? How were your wages? Andy: Oh, we were paid in cash at that time, but the wages were, at that time, were 25 or 30¢ an hour—so we were not making too much, nobody was making that much money in them days, anyway. Nettie: That's true. Andy: And it was paid in envelopes, in cash. Nettie: You were paid by so many pieces or so many bundles? Andy: No, we were paid by the hour, hourly wages—25¢ or 30¢ an hour, something like that—probably 10-11 dollars a week for 8 hours a day. Nettie: Where you had worked—were there only men? Did they have ladies working there? Andy: No, in our room there were just men. In our room there were 4 men—3 besides me in that room where we were working. In this room—in this other room—you had to bring in the tobacco for the ladies to work on. Yes, in the other room there was about 100 women, some men on jobs. Nettie: Were they foreign women? Andy: Well, lot of them couldn’t talk by they done their work anyway. And there was some young ones too, so— Nettie: These ladies, were they mostly from Triple Cities? Andy: Yes, from Triple Cities: Binghamton, Johnson City and Endicott. Nettie: Probably most of them were foreign people. Andy: Yes, most of them, they were, they couldn't talk too good English. Nettie: How did they talk to the boss? Andy: Well, some of the women—they interpreted. Nettie: Now, some of the jobs were called rollers, bunchers— Andy: In that room where they were working, that's what they called those ladies—rollers. Then they ended up as being inspectors. Yes, they had inspectors, too. Not the women on machines—they had a couple of inspectors—I think the girl that was my brother's secretary—she was secretary and inspector there too, you know. So— Nettie: Your brother was a foreman, there? Andy: Yes, he was an assistant. Yes. Nettie: What was his job? Andy: Well, he had to see that the women had their work—we put out the tobacco in good shape where they can roll the cigar, because if it were too dry you couldn't roll the cigar right—had to have a certain moisture. Nettie: You did say your mother worked here. What did she do? Andy: Oh, she was a roller there. Nettie: This machine started the cigar, then they sliced the stem of tobacco? Andy: Yeah, on the roller in the middle there is a knife and that stem, that tobacco was just, goes in between that knife and slices it off—cut right off—the stem, the middle. Nettie: After it was sliced, you started the procedure of the cigar? Andy: Yeah. Nettie: Did you have any strikes in your time? Andy: No—no strikes at that time. Nettie: How were they to work for at that time? Andy: The company were all right to work for—they treated everybody good—as far, as long as I worked there. I know I was treated all right—a job at that time was a job, and you had to have a job. You had work—so that— Nettie: How were the conditions? Did you have coffee breaks? Andy: Oh no, at that time, no coffee breaks at that time—no, no you got there in the morning and worked until dinnertime, then went back to work. Nettie: Did you have to dress any specific way? Andy: No, no. Nettie: I understand the ladies had to wear certain aprons. Andy: Aprons, yeah. I'll tell you in that wet room we had to wear rubber aprons and boots—rubber aprons and boots, because we were always in that water. Nettie: How about overtime? Was there work for overtime? Andy: Well I know some of them did, but I never did—just 8 hours—no overtime. Nettie: How many floors did they have? Andy: Just three floors—just like it is now, Ansco. Nettie: You worked on the first floor? Andy: I worked on the first floor—that's where the tobacco came in, and that's—the second floor—that's where they stored all the tobacco—that's where they hung all the tobacco up there where they got from the boxcars—and what they had on the top floor, I don't know. Maybe another part of the factory, I never saw it. Nettie: Therefore, most people were working on the first floor. Andy: No, they had a lot of people on the second floor too, like putting on that tobacco—when we needed tobacco—they would send it down to us. Nettie: How did they hang this tobacco? Andy: Well the tobacco comes in bunches, 3-4-5 pieces together, and separate it and hang it on the wire—hand it down so it would stay—it would stay that way. Nettie: After you dipped it? Andy: Yes—so— Nettie: How long did this tobacco have to dry before you can use it? Andy: Oh, not too long—not too long after we dipped it—maybe because we didn't put too much water on it—just barely touched the water and get it up quickly— Nettie: Just dipped it into water or spray it? Andy: Dipped it—yes, on the bottom, and tipped it over in a hurry so just a little bit of water was on it, rolled down because if you had too much water on tobacco it would turn tobacco black. Nettie: Is that right? Andy: Too much water on it—then we would leave it there, shake it off good so all the moisture would be off—then we would hand it up on the wire until the women were ready for it. Too much water, it—the thing would turn it black right away. That means—they're no good—well—not good—but they would have to wait 6-8 hours before they dried up good before they can be used—you have to be very careful with the tobacco. Nettie: Imagine—because it is so thin— Andy: Yes, because it is so thin and fine—that's— Nettie: Supposing that the ladies worked on the cigar and they found a defect—what would they do about it? Andy: Oh, if there was a leaf with a rip on it or something, they would throw it out—yeah—put it on the side— Nettie: What would they do? Make a cheaper cigar? Andy: They would probably have it dry out and use it for the inside, because the outside has to be nice and smooth—have a perfect leaf—but the inside, you can put any kind of leaf. Nettie: Who would know? Andy: That's right—you would crumble it. Nettie: When you do see a cigar, you do see a hole through the center. How is that—is that the way it was rolled? Andy: I don't know—that the way it is rolled—hole is not— Nettie: There is a man who works with me, and I noticed the hole in his cigars— Andy: I don't know. I never seen them roll it, but I don't know how that hole gets there—I think it is the inside tobacco—how it rolls there—you fold that tobacco leaf and you get that hole there. Nettie: Did they use a mold? Machine— Andy: Well, they didn't use a mold at that time. There was no mold—just a thing you just rolled around the thing, you laid your tobacco on it here—like a ridge—yes, like a ridge—little ridge—your tobacco went under that and kept rolling around. Nettie: Was it a machine that was rolling it? Andy: Yes, that's the machine what kept it tight, leaf on top. Nettie: I was told when there was a reject in a cigar—you had to put a piece on the cigar—paste a piece on a cigar— Andy: I don’t know, I never done that. Nettie: Must be you never got to end of the line. Andy: See, we were only in our room most of the time. What they were doing, patching it up—I don't know how they done it. Nettie: You just know the first part of it? Andy: We were just starting it off—getting it ready for the—like I said, we were not allowed to run around the factory, just had to stay in our own department. Nettie: Did you know of any other factories around? I understand they had several cigar factories around Binghamton. Andy: I don’t know. I didn't pay too much attention—I don’t know if they had any other factories around or not. Nettie: Did you have to commute to work? Did you live in Endicott? Andy: Oh yes. Streetcar—streetcars—going all the way up. Nettie: How much did they charge for a fare? Andy: I forgot. It wasn’t much—it wasn't much. The streetcar took you to Emma Street, then catch it on Emma Street to Endicott. Nettie: When did you start working? Andy: Seven o’clock. Nettie: And you worked ’til when? Andy: Four o'clock—yeah. Nettie: Did you bring your own lunch? Andy: Yeah, brought your own lunch. They had no cafeteria then at that time. Nettie: You cannot recall any other kind of cigar beside White Owl and William Penn that were made? Andy: I don't know what kind of cigars were made. I guess they made a lot of different kinds, put different names on them. Nettie: Was one better than the other? Andy: No. Nettie: Was your boss a nice man to work for? Andy: Oh yeah, he was a nice man. Nettie: Did he look over your shoulder when you were working? Andy: No, no. Any time you wanted to ask him a question, he always told you what to do and everything. He was older—he was about 60 years old at that time—he was with the company—he always, tobacco—always got a tobacco leaf, put it in his mouth and chewed it. Heck of a nice fellow. I guess he came up here when they moved up here. Nettie: He was a good advertiser, right? I heard from several people that they were very good to their workers. Andy: They were, they were. Nettie: The workers did not seem to complain about bosses as they do now. Andy: They were—especially our boss—never bawled you out for anything, even if you done wrong—like once in a while you put too much water on it, he would come over and tell us to forget about it. Next time, watch what you are doing—take it—put it over here and let it dry out. Nettie: That was nice—no pressure, really— Andy: No, really there was no pressure—was nice working for them. Of course, that time anyway, you had to work someplace. There wasn't much work anyway. Nettie: You had to work—wasn't there other places you could work beside the cigar factory? Andy: Well, yes— Nettie: What was the reason people went to work for the cigar factory? Was it better paying? Andy: No, you couldn't get a job nowhere else. You had to look wherever you could get a job. Nettie: Jobs were that scarce. Andy: Jobs were that scarce, yeah. So after I worked there a couple of years I started to go looking around for another job—well the Depression came after that, so that there was no job for nobody. Nettie: How was it during the Depression? Andy: Terrible. Nettie: Let's talk about it. Andy: I was walking the streets for days, froze my ears looking for jobs, went to IBM—hundred time a week—thrown out of IBM— Nettie: Really? Andy: Oh yeah, locked the door, wouldn’t let me come in no more. Nettie: What reason? No work? Is that it? Andy: No work. Then I go to EJ’s—I was back and forth to IBM—that was that time it was the International, small factory up there that was just making cards on McKinley Ave. What the heck did they call it then— Nettie: Was it Time recorder? Andy: They made time clocks and cards, punch cards, there. Nettie: They were manufacturing clocks? Andy: At that time, I was back and forth—EJ and IBM—trying to find jobs, then I went to Collingwood’s and found a job there. Nettie: Endicott Johnson? Andy: That was different—that was a part of George F. [Johnson]'s brother-in-law, running Collingwood's. Nettie: What were they doing there? Andy: Shoes, they were making shoes for Endicott Johnson. Nettie: I thought they were doing something else down there? Andy: No, they made shoes all the time—then George F. wanted his brother-in-law to sell it to him. The brother-in-law said, “No, I can make a go of it.” You know, George F. used to come down there 2 or 3 times a week. Nettie: Was he friendly with the workers? Andy: Oh yes, I put in 19 years there and 28 years more in EJ. Nettie: Where did you work in EJ? Andy: All over—West Endicott, Johnson City, and Binghamton. Nettie: What was your first job at EJ? Collingwood? Andy: Wetting outsoles, to soften them. Nettie: How did you do that? Andy: Put them in the water, let them soak for 15 or 20 minutes, and then take them out and put them on the rack. Nettie: And then they were distributed to the workers? Andy: Right. Nettie: What were your other jobs? Explain the procedures. Andy: From wetting soles I went in the mauler—hang up uppers—that's the leather—for a while—from there to tacking insoles. Nettie: How did you tack insoles? Andy: They put them on a wooden shoe—insole on top of a wooden shoe, and tack it with tacks on—a machine put leather over that, and that is how they made a shoe. After that I went to toe lasting—then I was toe lasting ever since until I retired. Nettie: Was this at Collingwood? Andy: No—part in Collingwood, part in EJ—for 28 years lasted toes for plastic shoes for EJ. Nettie: Was that at Fine Welt? Andy: No, I was up to Binghamton, up—hecks, Christ, they took that bridge and they put that road in there now, up on Susquehanna Street—had a shoe store— Nettie: BB Factory? Andy: Yes. From there I come to Pioneer Factory in Johnson City and then they started to close them up, and I went to Endicott there to Johnson Welt, then from there I come down to Fairplay Factory, now Alpine, now, where I retired. Nettie: What did you do, the same thing, bed lasting? Andy: Yes, bed lasting. Nettie: Explain the procedure of bed lasting. Andy: Well, they put the shoe—well now, you put the shoe in the machine and the machine does all the work. Nettie: Is that right? How was it done before? Andy: Before, you had to put the shoe in upside down, pull your wipers in and get that leather nice and smooth around and put the wire around it—to hold the leather over the shoe until the toe trimmer gets it—trims it off—guy sews the welt on—welt is sewed right around the shoe. Nettie: Uppers next? Andy: No, uppers are already on. The welt is sewed on, then it goes up to other guys to put sole on the sole—another job, sew leather onto sole to welt, and that's how your shoe is made. Nettie: You really had quite a few jobs. Andy: Oh yeah, I had quite a few shoe jobs. Nettie: I'm sure you would be a good representative for Endicott Johnson. Andy: Oh yeah, I went all over—done everything in a shoe factory. I could start a shoe and finish it right off—right on through. Nettie: Certainly, because you have had the experience of working in EJ and Collingwood for 47 years. Do you have any recollections of the shoe and cigar industries? Andy: Well, that's about it—what I went through my lifetime working in the cigar factory and shoe industry. Nettie: Going back to the cigar factory—did they not make cigarettes, pipe tobacco? Maybe in another factory? Andy: Yeah, I think they had another factory down south. Nettie: Was it a subsidiary of this factory? Andy: Yeah, they probably made something else down there. Nettie: Do you have any idea when the factory on Emma Street was closed? Andy: Well, it closed about one year or two after I left. Nettie: You started to work around 1927, and about Depression time it was closed— Andy: Yeah, I think so, around the Depression time—sometimes—because there were no jobs to be had by nobody at that time. I would still have been working there if they had not closed. Nettie: What do you remember during the Depression times? Andy: Well, it was tough—nothing to be had. Nettie: Maybe you can tell us something of your home life during Depression times. Andy: Well, there wasn't much of a home life during Depression times. Everyone was looking for jobs and had to get along with what we had. Nettie: Where did you live? Here or on a farm? Andy: I lived on McKinley Ave. Endicott. In the factory, them guys that had jobs in EJ—why, half times they had work and half they didn't. They played pinochle or rummy or something just waiting for work to come around. Yeah, some of the guys make 5-6 dollars a week—$10 a week, depends on what kind of job you had. Nothing is going. Nettie: Gosh, how did they survive if they had big families? Andy: They got around, they made it somehow. I don’t know how they made it, somehow. Nettie: How did you manage with a big family? Andy: We had a big family, but there was some in the family who were working too. We didn't cook steaks, anything like that, but we had at home, like potatoes and buttermilk, like that haluski, she made her own bread, and everything like that. Of course you could’ve gone down to EJ—they had a restaurant—and buy a loaf of bread for 3¢. EJ gave shoes to the family that worked for EJ, for their kids. At one time, they gave fruit away. EJ gave lots of stuff away—anything they thought was good, why, they gave away. Nettie: Your home here—is this an EJ home? Andy: Yes. Nettie: Did you buy this home through EJ? Andy: Yeah, through EJ. Nettie: Did you get a cheaper mortgage? Andy: Yes. For this one here I paid $9,200. Nettie: How did you finance it? Andy: They took it out of my pay—$10 a week they were taking out of my pay for the house. We had to put a little down payment that I saved after I came home from service—then you put $1000 down—rest was $1 a week—then they raised it up to $15 a week after a few years, up until it was paid for. Nettie: You didn't have to pay carrying charges. Andy: No, that’s it. You didn't have to pay that interest. Nettie: What else did EJ do? Did they have a credit union? Sort of deduction of wages for saving? Andy: Not that I know of. All I know is mortgage on the house. EJ used to do a lot for this town. They had those Labor Day things at the park, carnival and things, and everything for people in Endicott, had banquets about every week. He was certainly very good to their workers, were good to the workers—yeah—that is why they couldn't get a union here—because EJ was too good to them. They tried about 100 times but couldn’t get in. Nettie: I guess they had faith in Mr. George F. Andy: Yes, up until Frank took over. He's the one who ruined the company— Nettie: Frank was his son— Andy: No, he was Charlie's son. So after that, the company was going downhill after Frank took over—that went all to pieces, then I guess he didn't have that compassion. He didn't care for the company in the first place. He was one of these guys—well, he had it made, so he didn't care. He wasn’t paying attention to the workers. Everybody was doing whatever they wanted to—right. Nettie: The boss wasn't there to take care of the store. Andy: He didn't know how to run it, anyway. He didn’t know nothing about the business—he didn't even try to learn about the business. Nettie: I heard he started from the bottom to learn the business. Andy: He started. He was in the factory, trying—he didn't care for it. He didn’t pay any attention to it—so. Nettie: It was a shame because it is a nice business. Andy: That's it. He got in the hole so much, they had to start selling factories to pay all the creditors. Nettie: Andy, do you have any more recollections? Andy: I'm trying to think. All I can say, I enjoyed all these years anyway—work was bad or work was not bad—I had good times. Nettie: Where did your father work? Endicott Johnson? Andy: No, he died in Pennsylvania during World War I. I was a kid—probably about a couple years old. Nettie: Did he work in the mines? Andy: Oh yeah, he had the flu—he died from the flu. Nettie: Well, tell me about your family. Let's see, you had four children— Andy: Yeah, two boys and two girls. Five grandchildren—they are all in good health as far as I know. Nettie: Your son is working in IBM? Andy: Yes, IBM—manager in IBM. And the other son, he is a boss in Berwick, PA—where they’re building that nuclear plant down there. That's a mammoth building. Nettie: What is he, an engineer? Andy: No, he was a plumber. He took up plumbing and air conditioning while in the service, in the Air Force. So he was a plumber for 2 or 3 years—finally he heard of this job down there, so he went down there four years ago and was hired because they needed plumbers down there, and he was doing a heck of a good job. His work was good, every time they inspected it he was A-1 all the time—this past year they made him a boss down there, ’cause he knew what was going on and knew his job good. Nettie: This nuclear plant—a lot of people are against this nuclear plant being around here, aren't they? Andy: They are—but will be for the future—that's what he says—that's one of the coming things. They are going to have them and they are going to build them. Nettie: Is this something we should have, as many are against them in our area? Andy: Yeah, they are talking about it—but he says that's the thing that is gonna be built. That one there, that he was working on for 3 years or 4 years, and he says they have 6-7 more years’ work on it. That's what he said. Nettie: How big is a plant like that? Andy: Oh—Christ—that's a mammoth thing. He brings pictures home once in a while to show it to me. The last one he brought home, the plant was only 1/3 built and he said there were some people down there on the grid and they were only that high (explanation was comparable as to 1 inch of a picture of a person) compared to that plant—just a big mammoth thing. Nettie: Does it take up a large area? Andy: Oh yeah, big area. Nettie: What is this going to be for? Energy? Andy: Yeah, that's what they are building it for, energy. Nettie: In other words this is something we will be having— Andy: Yeah, he says there is no danger of that thing blowing up or anything like that. Nettie: How come they say there is? Andy: Well, if they do something wrong or something, or don't hook it up right, something—then that way—but he says if you hook up everything right there's no danger to it. I think he ought to know, he works there. He knows what to do. Nettie: It sounds interesting. Andy: Oh, that kind of work is interesting. Nettie: I think a lot of these boys who had gone into the service, picking up or learned a trade—when they got out of the service they got good jobs. Andy: That's what my son did. He didn't want to go to college—well my other son, Andy, he didn’t want to go to college—he joined the service, Air Force too. He spent 3-4 years and then he came out. He didn’t take up anything, though he was in there, but he went to school. He came home, then he said, “Geez, I better go to college and learn something.” So he got a job and started going to night school. After that he went to IBM—he's good now—he’s a good manager of IBM. My other son, there, took plumbing and heating, like I said, in the service for 4 years, like that's what he done while he was there. Nettie: Tey teach them a trade? Andy: Oh yes, that’s what he did. They taught him a trade in there. Nettie: What do your daughters do? Are they in school? Andy: No, they're working for EJ, office work. Nettie: And your wife works for GE? Andy: GE. Nettie: Are you retired? Andy: I'm retired. Taking life easy—play golf every day in summertime, bowl in wintertime. I'm enjoying life now. Nettie: Getting your exercises? Andy: Right—enjoying life now—so that is the way it should be. Nettie: Andy, it sounds like you had a full life— Andy: I did, I did. I enjoyed every bit of it. I had some bad times, I had some good times. Mostly good times. Nettie: Have to forget about the bad ones, right? Andy: Forget about the bad ones. That's life—just think about the good times. Nettie: Andy, anything else you want to tell me? Andy: That's about it. Nettie: Well, Andy, thanks a lot. I appreciate very much your giving me your time. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Andrew Goida Subject The topic of the resource Goida, Andrew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Ansco Company; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Housing Program Description An account of the resource Andrew Goida talks about working in a cigar factory in Binghamton, NY. He mentions that his brother and mother both worked there and details his specific job as a leaf-wetter at the cigar factory, which was in the building later owned by Ansco Company. He discusses the Great Depression and how it affected his ability to work and job availability around Binghamton. He found work at the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company. He also discusses his children's employment. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 28 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Goida, Andrew ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-02 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 46:03 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5f0b3a3d0182b54c3f9d80b09fda00b1.mp3 b27683d2906df67530a566d8ce410b09 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cinotti, Angelina Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-05-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:47 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55886">Interview with Angelina Cinotti</a> Subject LCSH Cinotti, Angelina -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cider industry; Family-owned business enterprises; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cider Mill; Cider Mill Playhouse; Italians Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Angelina Cinotti Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 26 May 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Angelina Cinotti of 600 Oak Hill Avenue, Endicott, NY, on May 26, 1978. Ang, will you tell us something about your life and experiences in the community? Ang: Well, my parents came from Chicano, Italy—that's a little town near Rome. They were very poor peasant people—so, Pa said he wasn't going to bring up his family to live as poor as he was. So, he heard about America, so he got some money, enough money together for just his trip to come and see what it was like. So, he went first to Scranton, PA, and worked on the railroad, I think, it was—I'm not too sure—and he stayed, he worked long enough to make enough money to send for my mother and my three brothers, who were born in Chicano, Italy, too: Tony, Philip and Lawrence. I think Tony was something like 10, Philip was 8, Lawrence maybe was 7, or 6 or 7, they were—maybe over, I'm not sure—but they came with my mother. It took them, I think, twenty days on the ship—it's a long trip—nothing like it is now, eight hours—and they went to Scranton. My mother hated it. She didn't unpack her trunk for a year because she was going back. Well, anyway, things weren't that great in Scranton. They heard about this Endicott where you could work, I think in the shoe—some of the shoe factory— Dominick [Ang’s husband]: —shoe factories— Ang: You could work in the shoe factories and tannery there and make a better living there—so they came here and they liked it—so they built a house on Squires Ave. and there were seven of us altogether. Ah—my sister Mary was the first one born in America—then there’s Louis, me and Angelo—that's five boys and two girls. So, they all grew up and worked in EJ—that was the only place that—language barrier, you know—you couldn't get jobs except if you could work with your hands. And, after the boys grew up and learned a little more, the language—and Tony was the first one to go out and get into the coal business—from there, he bought some property on Nanticoke Ave., and on this property was an old cider mill that wasn't being used. And—ah—he took that out, cleaned it up, and started to make cider. The farmers used to come down on Saturday and bring their own apples and they'd make the cider—they charged something like 5 cents a gallon, put it in barrels, and the business grew and grew—and then they invested in a larger press because the one they had was, you know, real old-fashioned, ah—not very efficient—and it got better and better every year and it was going along fine, then Tony died in an accident. The boys took over the business. They got into the oil business and the boys kept up the cider business—Orlando, especially, is the one that, ah—that was more interested in it. He had remodeled and it's going fine, and then one year, there was a bad fire and it burned down—all the old-fashioned—you know, all the nice atmosphere—yeah—but ah—they didn't know what to do—whether to just close it down, but then, the man from the New York State, ah—that have, you know that they have the Places of Interest—came down and asked if they wouldn't keep it open—because it was something unusual to have a cider mill around, you know, so they rebuilt it and I guess, you know, it was going fine. One day—I don't know if it was a student or one of the people from SUNY—came, looked around. He said, “Gee, it was a nice place to have a summer theater." Orlando showed him the big warehouse space, way in the back, and when they saw that, they knew. That's how the summer theater started there. They came down, fixed it all up, and that's how they got the summer playhouse. Nettie: Ang, going back to the cider mill—can you tell me the procedure, how they made the cider there? Ang: Yeah, let's see, I used to see them—there's like a conveyor—the apples go up this conveyor, and all while the apples are going up the conveyor, there's water running down, washing the apples—they had to be washed. [Chimes ringing.] Then the apples would be, would be dumped into a grinder, big grinder, after that's ground up, just like, almost like, ah—a food blender that you have, and then they would open up that container and let that mash fall on onto these big cloths that were under the press—no—this would be the press—this cloth—and they would let this pulp fall on there, and there would be a press that would squeeze the juice, and the juice would be gathered into a barrel. That's how you make your apple cider. Nettie: That was very interesting! Ang: Very simple. And nothing—you know—that 's what's nice about it—pure apple juice—yeah. Nettie: I also noticed you sold vegetables. Did you—doughnuts? Ang: For a while we tried the vegetables—oh! Doughnuts was the big thing. They decided to try the doughnuts for one year—and that really was a big success. The people would come in—we couldn’t keep up—I used to work there—and we couldn't keep up with the customers, they would be—three and four deep—wanting those hot doughnuts. They tried vegetable produce, that didn't go over so well— Nettie: They had supermarkets for that. Ang: Yes—well—that was a nice thought, but— Nettie: Did you get involved in the actual making of the doughnut? Ang: No, no, I never did. You could see them make it—you know—if you go down there—the machine does most of the work. Nettie: You had a, quite a variety. Ang: Yeah—cinnamon, plain, sugared—then they’d make the candied apple—they’d make them right there. Yeah. Nettie: How were the prices? Ang: Oh, I haven't worked there for about five years—I don't know. Nettie: How about the prices then? Ang: The apples were two for 25 cents—I think. The donuts were like $1.20 a dozen—but gone up a lot now. Cider, about 80 cents a gallon—now, a lot more. Nettie: Ang, when your brother first bought the original cider mill, were they making cider? Ang: They were not using it anymore—they—ah. He wasn't actually selling the cider—no, we never sold any—all it was, only customer milling—all it was, the farmers came in on Saturday and made their own. That’s all it was. Nettie: It was a big business— Ang: No, no. I remember once we had an idea. My brother Tony said, "I wonder if we'd sell some cider here—you know, if people would buy it.” I said, “Let's try putting some out." When we did, I then sold two gallons that day. After, you know, when it got, you know, when it got fixed up and everything, I think, too, how many gallons they did sell a day? I can't even—a lot. Nettie: It was really prosperous—was very nice. Ang: Yeah, it was funny because two gallons— Nettie: Yes, from two gallons you got up to many thousands, right? Ang: I think so. I'm sure they sold thousands of gallons in a day—easy. Nettie: Did you tell me, this Chicano is where your people came from? Ang: Uh—huh. Chicano. Nettie: What year? Ang: 1912—maybe. I could look on the passport—it's around that time. So that's all. Nettie: Well, you went to the high school in Endicott, right? Ang: Yeah, Union Endicott. Then my brother, Angelo went into business—he had the Endwell Motel in Endicott. Philip has always been an electrician, besides working in the factory. I don't know what else. Nettie: You're involved in—how about telling me about the North Side? Do you have anything interesting to tell about—a long time ago? Ang: Maybe. Dom [her husband] can tell you a lot about that. Just the side from how it has grown—this used to be a farm, where we live now, right here. Now we are in the middle of town—where all those houses are, we used to have cows—we used to take them to the pasture —now they’re filled up. When we moved up to this house they said, “You are up on a farm.” There was nothing here—this was the only house except Ketchak's. Nettie: Ang, do you belong to any clubs? Ang: Not really—church clubs. Choir. Nettie: What church was that? Ang: St. Anthony's. I was in the church choir for years—I always like to sing. Nettie: Is there anything else you want to tell me? Ang: Right now, I can't think of a thing. Nettie: Ang, thank you very much for what you have told me. I appreciate it very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Angelina Cinotti Subject The topic of the resource Cinotti, Angelina -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cider industry; Family-owned business enterprises; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cider Mill; Cider Mill Playhouse; Italians Description An account of the resource Angelina Cinotti talks about her family and her parents emigration from Chicano, Italy and the family's service for Endicott-Johnson after settlement. She discusses her siblings' professions and the development of the family's business - The <a href="http://www.cidermillendicott.com/index.html">Cider Mill</a> - which is still a prominent historical spot for locals and schoolchildren. It now also hosts the SUNY theatre in the Cider Mill Playhouse. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 13 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cinotti, Angelina ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 29:47 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/68ca261648012e137edee964a29fc592.mp3 d4e17097acdb1f856103c9a8ef657a17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed DiVittorio, Angelo Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-11-28 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 14:58 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56955">Interview with Angelo DiVittorio</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Angelo DiVittorio Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 28 November 1977 Dan: OK, Ang, to start out this interview, would you give me the date you immigrated to this country and the reason why you came? Ang: I arrive in New York April 29, 1921, the reason to better myself than I was in Italy. Dan: OK, and ah, you stopped at Ellis Island before you entered the country? Ang: Yes, and from there went right to Rochester, New York. Dan: OK, and what happened at Ellis Island? Ang: Well, it seems the doctor thought I was sick and he wouldn’t let me out. Finally my cousin who was with me could speak English, and he talked the doctor into letting me out because my brother would take care of me in the event I was sick, which I wasn't. Dan: OK, and you couldn’t speak any English? Ang: Not a word. Dan: Now what reason was it for you to come? Did you have a relative in the country? Ang: Yes, I had my brother in Rochester, NY. Dan: Your brother in Rochester. Ang: My father was also there. Dan: Oh, your father was also here. Ang: Yes. Dan: OK, so you went to Rochester, and then what did you do there? Ang: Well I was barbering—I took up barbering in Italy so I continued barbering—then one day I had a chance to come to Endicott, NY. Somebody asked me to come. I said, “Yeah.” I figured, make a little change, and I came to Endicott NY, then from Endicott, NY— Dan: OK, then you went to Endicott. Who did you work for there? Ang: I worked for James D'Adamo. Dan: James D’Adamo. In what year was that? Ang: 1922. Dan: 1922, OK. So you were only up to Rochester about a year before you came here? Ang: Just about a year. Dan: OK, now how many chairs were in that barbershop? Ang: Three. Dan: Three—OK, now at that time it was 1922. What was the price of haircuts then? Ang: 50¢. Dan: 50¢. Ang: At the better shops. Dan: At the better shops, yeah. What were they at the poorer shops? Ang: 35. Dan: 35. OK, now you worked for another gentleman who owns the shop, and haircuts were 50¢—did you work on a commission basis? Ang: Yes, 70%, I was getting 70%. Dan: You were getting 70% of the 50¢. OK, during that time were there any notables in anything whose hair you cut? Ang: Oh yes, George F. Johnson, all the time. Dan: You cut George F. Johnson's hair? Ang: All the time. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yeah, he was my customer. Dan: He was your customer, yeah—so in other words, you more or less established your own clientele there? Ang: Oh yes. Dan: Now how long were you there in Endicott? Ang: Oh, up to 1944. Dan: 1944. Ang: When I moved to Binghamton. Dan: Then you moved to Binghamton, and in Binghamton you went to work for who? Ang: I went to work for Mr. Ferrante, better known as G.G. Dan: G.G. Is that capital G capital G? Ang: Yes. Dan: OK, and how long did you work for him? Ang: I worked for him from 1944. Dan: Up until the time you retired? Ang: Up ’til the time I retired, yes. No, I worked for somebody else after that. Ah, I just can't remember what year G.G. sold out, ’cause he died and then I start working for Frank Battaglia, Frank's Barber Shop. Then from there went to work for Joe Trovalli—he's the last guy I worked for on Court Street. Dan: Oh, he was the last one you worked for. Ang: Yes. Dan: Oh, I thought maybe it was Frank. Ang: No, no, Trovalli was the last one I worked for. Dan: Now were the shops unionized, Ang? Ang: Ah, some was and some wasn't, but last one, no. But when I worked for Frank's Barber Shop it was. Dan: Frank was unionized. Ang: Yes. Dan: Yeah. Ang: But Joe Trovalli was never unionized. Dan: Now do you recall now, you retired when you were 62, is that right? Ang: 65. Dan: Oh, you were 65. Ang: Ah, 65. Dan: Did you notice at that time a decline in business due to the advent of the long hair and the full beards? Ang: Very very much. Dan: Very very much, huh? Ang: Matter of fact, a lot of the shops were closing because of that. Dan: Yeah, so in other words you got out just in time. Ang: Just in time—I have this little place here, a few old patients, customers. Dan: In other words, you built up your own clientele here in Binghamton. Ang: That’s right. Dan: That’s good. OK, now at the time you came to Binghamton, which was in 1922, or came to Endicott, rather, were there any tobacco factories in existence at that time? Ang: Yes, there was one in Johnson City. Dan: One in Johnson City—do you know anything at all about it? Ang: I didn't know nothing about it. The only thing I know, they were making cigars there. Dan: That’s the only thing. You don't know or remember where in Johnson City. Ang: Someplace on Main Street. Dan: Someplace on Main Street, OK. Ang: And off of Main someplace. Dan: All right, now when you came to Binghamton, your church affiliation was...? Ang: St. Mary’s the Assumption. Dan: St. Mary’s Assumption on Court and— Ang: Hawley and— Dan: —Hawley and Fayette Streets. Ang: Hawley and Fayette Streets. Dan: Right, and the pastor was? Ang: Father Pellegrini. Dan: He was the founder, I believe. Ang: He was the founder of that church. Dan: And some years later they merged with St. Mary’s on Court Street. Ang: Prior to that he left for Italy. Dan: He left for Italy? Ang: Father Pellegrini died there—then some years later they merged with the Irish church up there. Dan: Do you know anything about the Committee of Concern at all—how that came into being? Ang: Well I guess there was a bunch of fellows that thought they should have an Italian church built at the old place, but they blamed Father Conway—he wasn't to blame. Dan: In other words, they wanted their own national church—is that it? Is that the reason for it? Ang: Yeah, that’s it. Dan: That was the reason for it, yeah. How did you happen to have George F. Johnson as a customer? Was that right from the beginning in Endicott? Ang: Yeah, right from the beginning because we were already on Washington Ave., which was the Main Street in Endicott, and on his way to work he used to come by there, park his car diagonally there. If I call him in he'd come in—otherwise, if I say no, he kept right on going, see. Dan: In other words, you had to call him to come in? Ang: No, but you see if he didn't want to wait there very long, see. Dan: Oh, I see. Ang: If I call him it means— Dan: It means that you had a chair open. Ang: That’s right, or I be, I be ready in a few minutes—didn't want to wait too long. And then when he gets sick I used to go shave him home, cut his hair and all. Dan: Oh is that right? Where or how often did you do that? Ang: Well, whenever he call me, whenever. Dan: Oh, whenever he got sick he called you. You went right to the house and cut his hair. Ang: Right in his bathroom was all mirrors, all the way around the room. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yep. Dan: Any of the other Johnsons? Ang: Yes, George W. and his son Frank used to be my customers and once in a while, I don't recall the other Johnson—he used to be in a different kind of business. But anyway, the other brother, once in a while he used to come in, I don't recall, some kind of business up on North Street there. Dan: Yeah, yeah, how about the IBM? Anybody from the IBM? Did you know Tom Watson at all? Ang: I work on Tom Watson Jr. Dan: Oh, you worked on Tom Watson Jr.? Ang: I cut his hair and a few of the big boys over there like Don Ross and so many I can't think of them, but I work on a lot of those boys. Dan: Of course in those days they had facials too. Ang: Yeah, some days, yeah. Dan: How were tips in those days? Ang: Not too good. Dan: Not too good. Ang: Not too good in those days. Dan: In other words, if a haircut was 50¢, why, then the tip would be what? A nickel or a dime? Ang: Or nothing. Dan: Or nothing—George F. must have given you something. Ang: Oh, he always tipped—always. Dan: And you charged the same if you went to the house to cut his hair? Ang: Ah, no, we used to charge more, I forget how much—at the house we charge more. Dan: So you retired in 1965 and you have been working out of your home here? Ang: Yes. Dan: Ah, anything else you can tell me at all, Ang, about any notables whose hair you cut? Anything about the barbershops in the old, which are different than they are today, of course, outside of the fact that you've got just hairstylists today? Ang: That’s all, that’s all there is—the barbers are just broke. Dan: They're just going broke. Back in Italy you learned your trade? Ang: Yes, I started when I was nine years old. Dan: Nine years old. Ang: Nine years old. Dan: And learning it or— Ang: And learning. Dan: Like did you go to school? Ang: No, go right in the barbershop over there—it’s different. Dan: Sort of like an apprenticeship? Ang: That’s right, for three months I did nothing but leather faces. Dan: Leather faces. Ang: After three months I started giving haircuts and shaves. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yeah. Dan: Where did you get the customers to practice on? Ang: Well, see, during the summertime over there, was so hot, everybody got their hair cut off, see, so I used to practice on first and then I would just clip them right off. Didn't make any different. Dan: Yeah. Ang: As far as shave, it came easy. Dan: Yeah, OK, now the barbershops, now, are operated under the Health Department—the NY State Health Department? Ang: Yes. Dan: And it had to be registered every year, or is it biennial registration? Ang: Every two years. Dan: Every two years. Ang: Every two years, had to have a license. Dan: Biennial, yeah, and did you have to take any exam when you came over here? Ang: No, no, I didn't. See, when the license bill came out, all the barbers who could prove they were barbers didn’t have to take exam. Dan: And how would they prove that? By just— Ang: Well, just tell them where they worked for year and that’s it—but those that didn’t, then they had to take a test. Dan: Then they had to take a test, I see. So in other words, it was either serving an apprenticeship for a year and being approved by the State or else you had to take a test, right? Ang: Well, you serve an apprenticeship for eighteen months. Dan: Oh, eighteen months. Ang: Then after they take a test. Dan: I see. Ang: If you're OK to go barbering, they let you go—otherwise you go to school again. Dan: In other words, this gentleman who owned the barbershop in Endicott, it was up to him to approve you as an accredited barber, is that it? Ang: That I was there over a year. Dan: For over a year. Ang: That’s all you needed. Dan: And then he said you were all right and then you got your license—and how about today? Is it about the same? Ang: About the same, yeah. Before you get through, I want to say something. Dan: Go ahead, Ang. Ang: This will be the last. It seems though, a lot of IBM salesmen came from all over the world, see, and one of these fellows was from Italy and he had a partner, roommate by the name of Smitty, see, and all the time Smitty was kidding him, trying to kid him, but he couldn't kid him—he was so smart, see—so one day they both came in the shop for a haircut, see, and Smitty, he was trying to kid him by calling him “Dago,” “Ginny,” all that, and this Italian fellow, he just laughed at him, see, and ah, so this Italian fellow says to me, “Io lo porto a passeggio,” which is a term we don't use in Italy, and Smitty asked me, “What did he say?” So I said, “Just a minute,” and I have to translate it in English, and I started to laugh, and I laughed and I laughed. He says, “What you laughing at?” “He says he's taking you for a ride.” He says, “And how he is.” He says, “I been trying to kid him since I been here, but,” he says, “I always get burned up instead of him.” Dan: That’s a good story, Ang. Ang: Yeah, very good. Dan: You didn't speak any English at all when you came over, did you? Ang: No, nothing. Dan: Did you have to pick it up as you went along? Ang: I went to school, night school, Rochester, for a year, yeah. School #9, Joseph Fallon, Rochester, NY. Dan: You know, it seems to be, quite a few of the barbershops that were around during the days they were flourishing seemed to have been run by Italians. Was that a very popular trade in Italy at that time? Ang: I guess they had most, a lot of Italians took the trade. Like for instance me, and my father was a bricklayer or a stone mason by trade, but I was very ill when, during the First World War, had malaria, flu and typhoid fever, so was too weak to learn his trade, so he had me learn the barber business. Dan: So you served in the First World War? Ang: No I didn't, I was too young when I got sick. Dan: Oh, I see. Ang: Then they had the flu, I also had typhoid and flu, typhoid and malaria. Dan: What part of Italy did you come from? Ang: Sicily. Dan: Sicily. Well, Ang, I guess that’s about it. Ang: OK, Danny. Dan: Thank you very much. Ang: Glad to oblige. Subject LCSH DiVittorio, Angelo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Barbers -- Interviews; Rochester (N.Y.); Endicott (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y); Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Religion Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Angelo DiVittorio Subject The topic of the resource DiVittorio, Angelo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Barbers -- Interviews; Rochester (N.Y.); Endicott (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y); Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Religion Description An account of the resource Angelo DiVittorio talks about emigrating from Italy and working as a barber in Rochester and Endicott, NY. He discusses working for 22 years in Endicott before moving to Binghamton to work until retirement and that George F. Johnson was a customer. He also speaks about his faith and religious figures in Binghamton and the changing pace of his business. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 16 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DiVittorio, Angelo ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-11-28 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 14:58 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7fcf63ae9b0cccacc9c02bdbbb3ee648.jpeg 94011bbc9d5d917b17e3f3aee3dae364 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e70ddf94bb04a33ea7b6aeba1cb94dba.mp3 5298a9a7b94af78800b6c70923e24c24 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ukrainian Oral History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Heather DeHaan, Ph.D., Associate Professor in History Description An account of the resource The Ukrainian Oral History project consists of a collection of undergraduate student interviews with immigrants from East Central Europe, particularly the lands of what is now Ukraine. Four interviews took place in New York City and record the memories of Jewish immigrants. A few interviews testify to specifically Russian identity and experiences, while the rest of the collection is comprised of interviews with members of Binghamton’s Ukrainian immigrant community. Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ann B. Czebiniak Biographical Text Ann B. Czebiniak is a first generation Ukrainian American who was born in Johnson City, NY, and worked for IBM. She is not married but has a large extended family.She is a member of Ukrainian Catholic Church and resides in the Southern Tier with her family. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 62:00 minutes Date of Interview 2016-04-10 Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound Collection Ukrainian Oral History Project Subject LCSH Czebiniak, Ann.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Russian; Poland; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) Interview Format Video or Audio audio OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=AnnCzebiniak.xml Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Keywords Interviews; Ukrainians; Ukrainian diaspora; Immigrants; Ukrainian Americans; International Business Machines Corporation; Ukrainian Catholic Church; Ethnic identity Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Ukrainian Oral History Project Interview with: Ann B. Czebiniak Interviewed by: Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus Transcriber: Briana Comuniello and Drew Tenbus Date of interview: 10 April 2016 at 10:15:00 AM Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) Briana Comuniello: Alright, so good morning. Ann Czebiniak: Morning. BC: We will be doing an hour interview with you today. Umm, just to start off, can you state your full name and maybe a little bit about yourself? AC: Uhh, my name is Ann Czebiniak and I am one of uhh eleven children. Two of my sisters died before I was uhh born and right now there's only my one sister and a brother. All the rest of them are gone. BC and Drew Tenbus: Wow AC: So, and as I say, I was born in America, and in fact it's only, not far away from where we are up on the hill. I was born there, and I went to catholic school. I went twelve years. Uhh, St. Stanislav which no longer is here and then I moved to Saint Patrick's for twelve years on that and they were taught by the nuns both and they were very strict, and they were good, excellent teachers, and they were very good. And when I started, my first job was in a grocery store, and then one day at the clothes store I was fortunate, I got a job when I worked in IBM, I retired. BC: Oh wow, that's very interesting AC: So, I was very fortunate DT: What did you do at IBM? AC: Oh, I used to work for engineering and I was not an engineer but thank god for a lot of brothers, they were electricians, everything and all electrical things I understood, so I used to, uhh when computers first came out, those big things on there, we were the ones that, I was the one that they failed, I was the one that had to find out why they failed. BC and DT: Ahh! AC: That was my job. So, I, it was very good, and then it was very, and as I say the engineers were good but they only had everything on paper. AC: Paperwork DT: Before paperwork AC: But I grew up with it. My brothers did those things, so I knew, I understood, electricity was easier for me to find the defects. And I was very, very, I was very fortunate at IBM, they used all my talents that I had. I have to say. It was very, very profitable and I'm grateful for that. BC: That's amazing. Umm, do you wanna talk about, uhh your parents? You said they came here-- AC: Well, you ask the questions. Well, what do you want to hear? BC: Yeah, we'll take it back a little bit. Uhh, your parents are from Ukraine? AC: No, they were from Poland. BC: Oh ok. AC: Let me explain that. They originally under Franz Josef and that was Austria and when they had the Austrian divide the section where they lived ended up in the Polish area. DT: Ok. AC: So, they originally and when I was visit in uhh 1985, I went to visit the village my parents came from and they still, uhh there was a Ukrainian church that-- a Ukrainian church there. AC: So, that's how we got from Poland.  BC: That's interesting. Umm, when did your parents come here? AC: Uhh, I started to tell you before. My dad came here in 1905. My dad was born in 1880. And he came here on a work visa in 1905. He worked for five years and my aunt came. My, there was only two of them- there was three but my uncle died, and my aunt came with my dad but she got sick over here and she went back and died. But my dad was here for five years and he worked partly on, in EJs (Endicott-Johnson) that they long time ago on there, they worked things. DT: Oh ok. AC: So, originally, he started to work on the trains with the trains but then he got a job in EJs and that's where he was. After five years he went back to uhh Europe, you know, and he got married and my oldest brother which is Adrianna's great grandfather (referring to her great-great niece who was also being interviewed on the other side of the room) was born there. And he was only like four, five months when they had, and my dad decided we bought property and no money because in the area where there was, you know, just farming you don't, so my dad came to the United States in 1914 and it was late part of 1914 just before World War I. He got here WWI broke out and my dad was in America here and my mother was in Poland and for four years it was illegal, you could not even write letters. They had no idea anything about each other. So, after the war was over, they communicated, and my dad was, he paid the property, you know. My mother was very smart and- not smart, wise and she figured that if my dad could make a living in America and pay half the property there, things are better here than they are there. And other thing that my mother did not like is that after the war things got political and unfortunately that the Catholic Church in Poland, the Ukrainian Catholic Church was pulling. My mother used to call them- didn't call them Russians, they called them Muscovites so they're going towards Russia and my mother didn't like that so that was one of the other reasons why she came to this country. So, they got here, and they, my dad, he built a property that's for all but my two brothers that were my oldest brother and my other brother, we were all born there. All of us. All 8, 9 of us. So, and I say that my dad got sick and he was truck farming and then my oldest brother, I says my oldest brother Mike, that's his name, he was very smart. Not knowing the language at all when they came here to America, they started a Catholic School St. Stanislav and that was just beginning on there and he went to school, and he was six years old when he came here but he was so smart that he skipped to grades in school. BC AND DT: Wow. AC: He was very, too bad he couldn't finish like, go on to college and that he could've had, at that time there was things, but he finished and then he got job. He had job as a meat cutter and that at that time meat cutters were making more money than the factory people, so he was the one that helped my dad to raise the farm, the family on there. So, until we got old enough to you know, the older ones came and we all had our turn to keep our mother and father, we had to do our turn for. And the fact that I was the last one I kept the house up and all and I supported them until they died. BC: Wow. How was it growing up with such a big family? AC: Excellent. You know what, you don't, if you have a problem, there's always someone to ask and in a big family, no matter what your problem is you're gonna find somebody who's had that problem. And that is big because you don't have to decide on yourself, you can make a judgement on what they lived through.  I found it very beneficial and I (stutters) now I miss them because I used to depend on the brothers and all because, and they're gone. And I say five of my brothers are, they're gone you know. And they did a lot, and we were a very close family. As you see over here, family's all together. DT: (Laughing) Everyone's still here (referring to Ann's extended family who came to church with her). AC: So, I say, we enjoyed family life and it was very good on there. When we uhh, this was just before World War II, my brother, oldest brother, he bought a farm and the reason why he bought the farm was that they had a little building on the corner and my brother wanted to have a little, like we had, the 9/11 little store over there. And he did have it during WWII. And then, as I say, we had chance the man that he worked for in town, the meat cutter, he had two stores, so he, my brother, has chance to buy one of the stores.  BC AND DT: Wow. AC: But during the war times, he couldn't work out in the store because they would've all been drafted. I have five (brothers) you know. So, what they did is that my brother worked on the farm from Monday till Friday and then Friday; Monday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday they worked in the store. My sister, my oldest sister, she was the one that took care of the store and my brother Andy also was attending, he knew how to cut meat. So, they took care that during the week. So, for that and then, and see, my oldest brother, my brother Pete, I said (stutters) four of my brothers were in the service. So, they had, they go, they all went at different times because they were younger. And then nephews, Adrianna's uncle, he was in Vietnam and I says I have, what's his name, nephews that were all, one that was in Germany, I had like six or seven nephews that were in the service, so.  BC: Wow. Were they all from different branches or--? AC: Yah, I have a nephew, my one brother and nephew were in the Air Force, and one nephew was in the Navy, and he was on the ship in Midway, and I have nephews, and the nephews were in different (stutters), served in the army. One of, her uncle (referring to her great-great niece) had a good job. He was in the army. He was drafted but he was drafted already after he went to college. And he had a nice job because he used to be a chauffeur for Air Force generals so that was a nice job. But I unfortunately, I lost a brother-in-law in WWII. BC: Really? AC: My sister Pauline, there's only three of us sisters. The two sisters died way, way back but three of my sisters that lived, and my middle sister, uhm she got married like four months before she was 18 and her husband went to war, and he was killed in the Battle of the Bulge if anybody knows that. And my sister, she has two girls, she lived with her husband only 35 days. Could you imagine? DT: Wow! AC: And the two times they had, as she saw, she got pregnant, and the youngest one, the youngest girl was only four months when he was killed. BC AND DT: Oh wow! AC: And his uncle- his brother tried, he was in the service also and tried to find out how he died but his whole outfit was killed. They were at the position where they had to keep the place because if they, that area in the Battle of the Bulge, if they gave in, it could've been, the war could've gone another way. So they had to, and they had, and it was a bad time. He died in December in 1944. So that was about the things. And I say, other brothers are very unfortunate, they were very good in the service, no problems. BC: Were your parents, uhm happy that they joined the service or-- what was their feeling towards--? AC: My mother and father-- I gotta tell you about my brother Andy. No, my mother, they did not, that's part because in Europe people had to go in service too. My brother Andy was in the Korean War and he went into the service and my mother prayed very, very hard that he would not go to Korea. So he was stationed in Texas and the place of demarcation was St. Louis, Fort Lewis in Washington State, so they moved my brother up to Washington State. He was supposed to go to Korea. Well, they lost his records. They lost his records for three months. DT: (Laughing) AC: It was in the back of the, you know drawer, in the back, and when they found that, it was already, they could not send anybody overseas unless they had (served) a year, and it was less than a year, so my brother did not go. And my mother, it was through her prayers. DT: So, all those prayers-- (Laughs) AC: And for that, you could talk about that, my mother made a sacrifice, that she would never have any alcoholic beverages as long as she lived, and she didn't as thank you for not brother not going in there. BC: That's crazy! AC: They say have faith up there or something. A lot of people have faith, you find out that a lot of people here came from Ukraine, and if you talk to every one of them, you find out that each one has a unique story and frightening. It is terrible what they went through. It's a wonder that they are mentally ok. So DT: So, going back a little bit, both your parents are from Poland or Ukraine or around there? AC: My mother was born in 19- 1888. They were born there. My father was all Ukrainian and my mother's great grandmother- my mother's grandmother, my great grandmother, was Polish on her mother's side. So that was a thing that they were-- And I have to tell you, it's tradition in the country that if your mother was like Polish, you are Polish, you're not another thing. My mother was baptized and everything in the eastern, in our church, but they always considered them as Polish because they're with the mother. That was-- other countries had that too. They called them Polish more than Ukrainian.  BC: What did your parents identify as? AC: Pardon? BC: What did your parents identify as? Uhh, Polish, Ukrainian--? AC: No, they were Ukrainian, they were because they on that, they had to come in on a Polish visa because if you were born in America, you know, I don't know what nationality you are, but your nationality is yours. But where you're born, that's where your country is. But they were not born there, but since they lived in there, and you get a visa, if you get to go out, if you go from America, I don't care, you (stutters) you could be Irish or whatever, you're still an American. When you're born here you're still in America. And we, as we say that, we respect our background, but we love America. We [stutters] had nothing against them. Even like my brothers' serving, all my parents, nobody had. And, my mother and father, as many times, as long as they've been here, they've never even had the desire to go back to visit.  DT: Really? AC: I was fortunate, I went but they [her parents] didn't. I went in 1985. It was still under communism, and the area, and I'll tell you something, you don't realize that, when, you know, we're free over here and all, but when drove into Warsaw, and you see guys on the steps with guns up there, it doesn't make you feel very comfortable. Everywhere you look there's guns and eyes and that's not what we have here. DT: Right. AC: So. BC: Wow. That's very interesting. AC: So, ask whatever, you know, you ask whatever you want. AC: I don't know what you want to know DT: Uhh, so what language did you speak at home? AC: I spoke Ukrainian DT: Ok. AC: We all, my mother did not speak very good English, in fact, she tried to get her citizenship and she couldn't speak well enough. My dad became an American citizen. DT: Oh, ok. AC: He was an American citizen, on that. But they loved America. BC: Your first language was Ukrainian? AC: Well they spoke at home, my mother didn't speak (English), and when we went to school, in fact (stutters), I knew English because the older ones already (knew it). Because they taught in school. BC AND DT: Oh wow. AC: You know, they start in school in English but we at home, we had to speak our language. I hate to say it, my mother that is used to say, "Jews, are you Jews that you talk another language?" You know.  AC: They used to pick on us, but we had at home (stutters) and actually it was an asset because when we had any kind of a problems or anything where people had to talk to my parents, I would translate. I had no problem. In fact, that one of our professors from church here many years ago asked me if I think in Ukrainian when I speak it, or do I translate it into English and I never thought about it but I have to say that for me and my brother the same thing. We don't have no difference, we think in whatever we're talking. You don't even know that we're changing thoughts in a different--We don' translate. We just know two words for the same thing. BC: Do you dream in both languages? Have you noticed? AC: Huh? BC: Do you dream in both languages? AC: Depends (coughs). Depends on what the dream is. If I dream of like my parents, and you had. And one other thing that I'll tell you that lot of people don't know, Americans, is that one time when I was working in the grocery store a lady come in that I knew but she didn't speak very good English, so I spoke to her in Ukrainian. And one of the guys who were there was telling me that they should speak English but I told him, and I'll tell you, now if you go to France and you live there for fifty years and you meet an American, you're not gonna talk to him in French, you're gonna talk to him in English because that is natural for you. To the people that you speak, talk in that language, and you, and American, I mean you speak American and all that, but people from other nationalities you're gonna find out you're gonna speak in different language. Where you, what you know, what you grew up with.  BC AND DT: Interesting. AC: And you don't think that but I was confronted with it so I know. BC: Have you ever been either discriminated against because of speaking a different language or anything? AC: No. DT: So, you felt very comfortable because there was a lot of Ukrainians here, obviously, in Binghamton? AC: Pardon, I didn't hear you. DT: Did you feel comfortable growing up here because, did you feel there was a lot of other Ukrainians here that it was like kind of-- AC: Uhh, it didn't matter because there was an awful lot of other people. There was Polish, Slavic, ehh Slavic people, Czechs, uhh Italians. We grew up there was an awful lot of different. It did not make [Stutters]. I think that now unfortunately they make this racist, that, and we didn't even know what anything like what race has been. That was not and that thing, I think they make bigger issue now than they used to. We grew up, it didn't matter. I say, Blacks didn't matter to us. BC: Because everyone back then was very heterogeneous? AC: Because everybody was, most everybody was from another place, you know? What they did respect was they, I think more for what you really are. I worked, when I worked in IBM, I worked with people--the lady from Laos, lady from Korea, and she in fact, she was from the Chinese dynasty, that she was from Korea. And the only reason why got to America is because her husband worked for the army. And once the army left southern, all the people that worked for the army, they took them out because the communist would've been taken amnesty against them because they were working for the Americans. So, they were sent to either America or Australia, other countries. They would not leave them there. And she had, and [stutters] we understood each other because she was talking to other people, they didn't believe it. But in North Korea, they had all the houses bugged. You couldn't talk even in your own home. And you say something they already knew, and I only knew because they did the same thing in Ukraine, so I understood. But regular people that never was come from something like that don't understand.  BC: Do you have any specific memories of your time working for IBM? AC: I was very fortunate, that's all I says. I was very fortunate, I was very well-liked. They liked my work. In fact, they didn't like that I was gonna retire. In fact, I met a man that was a manager after I retired, and he asked me to go back. To go for temporary but I-- I had other things. I'm very active at church. DT: Did you go to school to learn all about the electricity or anything? AC: I grew up with brothers and it was natural for them. I did, although, my brother, my youngest brother was in the service and he learned electricity in the service, and he was here, he's upstairs, they're singing on that [referring to church choir upstairs during mass]. He was fortunate because he was in Florida after he got out of the service and he was in a lot hot and he worked on the first missile that went up to the moon. [Stutters] Because he was working on the electrical parts of that. DT: Wow, that's crazy. AC: He used to in the Air Force, his job was, he was named, since he was the one that fixed the planes, that take care of them. When the service. This was already-- And believe it or not, that he still is what they call it, you can't say that quarantined, that's not the word for it, you can't tell what you were doing. He can't talk about the things, even today, and he was in the service in the fifties, so you talk about, so he, the things that he did, he can't talk about.  DT: Wow! BC: Now you said you're very active in the church community, you went to catholic school. Did you always have a strong presence of religion in the household? AC: I had, my parents were faiths. We had a situation with my parents because my, for my parents, religion came first, nationality comes second. And many years ago, I was real small, I don't remember. But my mother was saying, they started the Orthodox Church- Ukrainian. And they and so my relatives are there. And they wanted my mother and dad to go, and my mother and dad were Catholic, and we don't go there. And, it was so bad that they were even shooting at the house. In fact, my mother says that one time the bullet came almost, almost hit, and it was by her leg, by her foot. And they came to the house because they were-- But my parents knew that religion came first. Uhh, don't get me wrong, my mother and father were, they're very good people. They enjoyed life, they were not the ones that prayed all the time, you know. AC: They lived life. They had a good time, they enjoyed, my dad enjoyed the holidays, and they did things happy. We enjoyed, and happiness on that. But we had certain things that we had, just like [stutters]. Things are a little looser now than we did. When I was, when we were young, you, they did not use an ironing board, iron on Sunday. That was that. No washing, no nothing. We had on that, and my folks would not put up with that. No way.  BC: Were all the stores closed on Sundays back then too? AC: All the stores were closed on Sunday, and the only, even-- the only thing that were open is that movie theaters, you could go to the movies. There was nothing really. And long time ago, they used to visit, Sundays. We used to go visiting with the family, go visit. You just spent Sunday visiting other parts of the relatives. You became closer because everybody knew each other, and it became like one family, you know. DT: That's nice. AC: So, we used to go, in fact when my brothers and all lived here, we used to go from my house to the other then we have-- In fact, yesterday, we had a party. My great niece sixteenth birthday. We had a big party in the hall for her. So that's a lot of people who didn't make it to church this morning for the first one (Laughing).  BC: That's so nice. So, would you say religion and family are tied? AC: Very much. And one of the things that i have to say is we always had at least one meal together. BC: That's so nice. AC: You work all day but usually supper time you had one meal together.  DT: So, would you say you passed on, you know, this love for religion to your own children? AC: Pardon? DT: Would you say religion's important with your own family and your own children and stuff? AC: I says, I am. I say I'm very, with all the things. I have just three of them left. And my, all of them that died, they all received their last rights before they died.  AC: So, whatever they did on there. And then I have a brother-in-law that-- I have several brothers-in-law that died on that because, I says, my, I say five-- I have sister. My sister had two husbands that, Pauline. Her first husband was killed, and she was married again, and she had six children after that, and then my sister that's in California, her husband also died. So out of the things, I have sisters-in-law, but [stutters] brothers-in-law, I don't really have any.  BC: Did you teach Ukrainian to your own children? AC: I have no children. I'm the only one that's not married. BC: Oh wow! AC: But I'm gonna tell you something. I'm glad. First of all, I was able to do things that they (her siblings) couldn't. I am very artistically inclined. And I used to do things that they couldn't and so-- In fact, the Easter eggs, I was the one that taught them in the parish how to make them. And I learned from books. I'm very good from learning-- I don't have that now, but I can, but I could, I read books I could do. I did a lot crochet. In fact, my wedding bread, my sister-in-law came to me. She wanted a wedding bread for my niece, for her daughter. I never seen one. She brought me pictures and I, God gave me a gift that I was able to do those kinds of things. But I have, I had forty-two nieces and nephews, and I only have one nephew and one niece that died. All the rest of them of them are living. That's not counting great and great-great. She's a great-great already. And I don't even know how many great-greats that I have because there's so many.  BC: God Bless. Do you have any family back in Europe or-- AC: Yes. BC: Ok. AC: Yes, there's cousins over there, on, right there. And then I have some cousins that are in Ukraine because they were kicked out of Poland during WWII, that they ended up in Ukraine. And we had a special privilege. Uhh, my brother, my oldest brother in, and there was seven of us that went. My nephew's wife's sister was getting married and they were in Poland, so he went with his two children, my sister-in-law and my brother, the parents, and I went. We went to the wedding over there, on there. So, as I say that, uhh, it was a very privileged to see this was during, I told you during the communist times on there. And we find out (coughs) the difference in the families in all that we were very grateful on that. See how people live there. And I says I, they were shown things that were different from what they had. We were very fortunate because they already at that time had, like a, bathrooms. They had bathrooms in the house. They had bottled gas, which was on the stoves. The only thing they had were the outhouses and the worst part that we had is that where we stayed, they, the wedding was, they had to hire a cook to do that. He was cooking right next to a whole pile of manure (Stutters). And working in the grove, and they had a make-shift kitchen. Between the barn and the house. It was-- things out. And I got-- I don't have the pictures now, my nephews got it. I took pictures in there and the one wall was so full of flies that you would, you would think that it was pepper. I'm not exaggerating.  BC: Wow! AC: And what they did which we didn't like is that they used to make soup, but they didn't bring it in a pot to the house. They brought it in their bowls, two flies in that one, one fly in that one (Laughs). They brought them in there. I had a difficult time on that. And the water, as I said, the part with the water-- We couldn't use the water because the water was from the wells that right next to-- they had manure piles and that all went down. They--you know what, we don't appreciate the laws we have in this country.  DT: Yeah. AC: Because you can't have uhh pump, a water pump next, water by the well, by uhh well there's things, you know, there's any kind of, all those you have to be so far away. We didn't appreciate until we went there. And then in the towns it was worse, don't forget. I worked in a grocery store. Everything was, you know, things you have to be very careful. You come over there to store, they have the doors wide open and then there's a table, like a double stand. They had beef there, pork there, everything. The same flies that visited the privy visit the food. And I had a very difficult time with that because, I gotta say, because I grew up, we had beef, you know, clean. In America, we're very fortunate for that. DT: Mhmm, wow! BC: Have any of your relatives come to America? AC: Oh! I started to tell you when we came back from America I have a cousin that was here, he died already but he was going because that's my mothers, my mother's son, my mother's sister's son and he was going back to the village where we were. So, he called my brother up, my brother mike, and he asked if we wanted to give money. So we went through the list of all the people that we met down there, and we made a list get money both my brother and I went together and he gave it to the people, then he got a letter back and they did a very nice thing cause they sent that money with an invitation to all the relatives that they had in there, in Ukraine because they didn't have back and forth all the time so they did not see those relatives, that means first cousins and all, they didn't see them since World War II. SO that money we were very grateful that they used to get the family together. That was the first time that they've seen it. We felt very good for that. BC: That's amazing! Nice happy ending. DT: So what year exactly were you born? AC: I was born in 1933. My oldest brother was born in 1913 so 20 years difference. Almost, we're only a couple of weeks apart. He was born November 16 and I was born December 7th. DT: Wait so your dad came in 1914, you said. AC: Pardon? DT: Your dad came in 1914, you said? AC: Yeah, the second time yeah. DT: So, was your brother born in Ukraine? AC: Yeah, he was four months old. See that's right. And my dad did not take my mother he wouldn't take my mother. First time he came here he was like a year almost without a job we had relatives here that said I used to wash dishes and stuff like that but for him to get a job he was afraid to bring family on that to come here. So that was why he came back the second time and that's my dad. But my mother had house was there my aunt the one that we went to when we went back to Poland and we saw my mother's sister that was the last one of the relatives we went to see her and she lived in that house where my dad was, but right on the hill my mother she had her own house so she lived with my mother while my dad was married to her. BC: Now, would you say your parents identify themselves more as Americans? AC: They never have, they considered them, I was considered themselves, yes but they had respect. Let me explain another way. You're born in America and you live here for 20 years just an example. So, when you move to France you're not going to talk about childhood in France because you didn't live it there, so you have to live it where you were born. So, they talk about old things, but because they were born there, and they think of it, but as for that I told you that they had no desire to go even and visit. They liked America. Very, very, very content here. DT: Do you have any interesting stories from Ukraine that you remember? AC: I Umm I have to think about for that--Well I will say that I find that the people and we went, and this was in Poland when we went there, my sister in law had two sisters that were in Ukraine. DT: Ok. AC: My, her great grandmother was born in America here in, in, in Oliver, that's by Scranton. And when she was 3 years old, her parents moved back to Europe. So, when she was there she was there until she was 19 and then she came to America she was American born she had no problems on that. The part is it that she already she had difficulty in American language and my brother was born there but he had better in the English language. But things were kind of bad, she had 2 sisters in Ukraine and she did not when we were there did not there go to Ukraine because it was still under communism this was before this was 1985 before communism broke-- DT: Right. AC: And we had 2 children with us and my nephew's wife was from there. She just got her uhh papers that she was American they call it the card that she's American citizen which she's American citizen now. She got her citizen thing, but we got the papers on Friday, and we had to make the decision on Monday that we are going because we had to make the you know your plane reservations and all? And I say that we didn't there go because she was afraid that if we went visit and they're not gonna start World War 3 again you know for something like that. It was scary and one of the things we had people were kind of livery of Americans over there at the wedding. But on the last night that we were there we all, they had people there must have been like 15/20 people that came to the house where we were, that was strange of all. One of them was my sister in laws half-uncle and he was in prison for 10 years for things that were going on and they were talking about things how it was bad over there and they told it on the last day because they knew that nobody would hear it because the next day we are leaving because you know what we went one of my, my, my, my nephews wife's god parents were there and they owned the bakery. DT: Ok. AC: And they asked us not, we spoke, when we were there, when we were in public, we spoke only English. And she asked us not to speak in Ukrainian in there because they're gonna take reprises on that because they were Ukrainian you had. DT: Wow! AC: Yes, it was bad, it was bad on that. My mother says that before 1918 the Ukrainians and the polish people got real got along good. They used to celebrate according to Christmas according to the Julian calendar. So, they used to come to ours and on the 25th ours used to go back and the intermarriages you know there was no problem. But once world WWI came, then politics came in. And see and politics that come in and that's when the trouble start. Ukrainians had it very bad in Poland at that time. They're not that now, they're better now, but at that time under communism it was bad. You could not admit that you were Ukrainian. You had to speak, and they had a say at just how bad it was there was a Ukrainian church and it wasn't even catholic, it was orthodox and my nephew's sister in law was getting married. And she was getting married in a church there. But they had to go in because they used to use it as a barn they had all the things, they had to clean everything out, they did not let us have any electricity or anything while were having the marriage. So, you're talking how bad things were, you had to be very careful on that. And when we went to visit my sister in laws 2 aunts, we went to visit one and uhh her son in law was polish, and he didn't know that we understood Polish, so he was coming in saying "What are they doing over her? What do they want here?" and all that. And after we stayed a while they found out that we are relatives and we that's not the way we are changed attitude but they're and it was afraid, you could not do on the street on that thing and a lot of stuff this food was bad, and everything was on the black market you know, you had to get things on there. And if you wanted to go we were, the bride, that was a funny part there. Bride and groom get married in America you go on a honeymoon, right? Not there. They drove us all around Poland visiting everybody, he had a van and his job he was a mechanic but they he lived now came to America but hat another story I have to tell you. They're in America now and they're in -- can't think -- in Tennessee, I think, it is my nephew's sister-in-law, she's a professor, she teaches Russian in a college and he is a mechanic, but he has but he has the thing that most expensive cars what are they? I can't think of the name. BC: A sports car? AC: Pardon? BC: Like a sports car? AC: The name of it the real car that they have, he was the one that works on them because that's what he did over there, he was a mechanic, so he got a good job. But how they got to America. Things were very bad, they went on a tour, and they went visiting another country and they did not stay they did not go back with the filler they went to Germany and they were on a thing, and they didn't know for 2 weeks they didn't know how they were gonna get because they had to find out to get away they had to go underground to get things, my nephew sent money that they were able to get but they had 2 weeks where it was very bad, they didn't think they were gonna live. But they had to sneak out of the country because they didn't allow going to America. DT: Wow! BC: That's so crazy! AC: Well you can't believe it unless you live it. I said that I find going there has made a complete different opinion of what I thought it was. My parent's-- oh, funny thing. We went there, and my dad used to talk about a beer garden. They talk about it, so we came over there and we saw that beer garden; it looks like an American outhouse. It was so small! I said you wouldn't think it was, so you think something, and you picture, and it was completely different. I'm fortunate that we went to see the places that my parents used to talk about. We were next to it, we had a bad thing happen to us when we were in Poland is because my friends don't live too far away from the San River. And we were going to see some relatives on the other side and there, very few places have bridges only in the big towns, and they have these floats that you drive on, and they wait on there and the drive you over on your car and everything, they pull you over on the other side so you can go. That's most places how you cross. Yeah! You don't know. BC: Is it like a ferry? DT: For one car? AC: Flat thing and you have that floats, wood on that, so you have on there. And what was bad, it was very dry that year in Poland and one of the guys that was swimming near this nest thing, he tried to go underneath the thing while we we're going on and he didn't make it out, he drowned. So, we went to visit the relatives, we came back, and we couldn't use it because they had it closed off. And I hate to say it; his body was still there on the side because we had to go like 15/20 miles down on a bridge to go across on that. So those were the things on there. When we went what was an interesting part since you are catholic it will be interesting, there was a miraculous church, the first one, a Ukrainian church that was built in Poland, and it was, and my sister in law lived not too far away from there and we went there, and you couldn't believe. You think this hill is bad? I have a heck of a time walking. You can't drive up there, I had a stick we were all walking and the beautiful church there, there were no services at the time there, and on that. And they had one of the, we have icons in the church as you see. And one of the icons in the altar was missing, and they said that when the icon comes back, that the church will reopen. Well that church now is reopened but it is the oldest church in Ukraine. DT: Wow! AC: And what happened during WWII, that church used to have a copper roof on it, and when the Germans came, they wanted the roof, copper. So, they asked some of the villagers, thinking nobody would but they got somebody from another village, a couple of guys on there to take the roof off. Well, they start taking the roof off, and they died. Not only did they die, but their families did too. So, they got written in a thing on that, and they went into the cornerstone of that, what was written in there. The government had to go and replace the roof because it was in the thing that they couldn't touch that. I'm not telling you, but I knew the people that it happened to you know, you go there. So, things used to happen like you don't really realize, on that. But the church was beautiful, icons. Would you believe I took pictures and I wish I could show you because I have a lot of pictures, but they had icons on all the frescos, and they're still there. And they were good enough that I was able to take pictures on that. They had no lighting in the church or anything. But in the dark, no sunlight or whatever it was up on the hill, in the woods like, beautiful place where it was on that. But that was I think the most interesting thing we were able to go see. BC: Can you speak a little bit about the church here? You said you were one of the oldest members-- AC: Ok then--We belong to a church which now is Holy Spirit, part of it. Well, got to go further. A bad thing happened. We came to America and my dad came the first time, they were blessing St. Michaels over the church -- it's still there. But, they built the church in 1904. We had no eastern right bishops in America, so the attorneys didn't know how to legalize it. So, what they did is they made it a corporation; president, secretary, and treasurer had to be in church. So, they had it ok on that. But see, in that church it was not only Ukrainians, it was mostly Ukrainians and then there was Ruthenians, like Holy Spirit. They had the same liturgy we had, but their customs-- that's just like English, England and America they're different. So, we wanted our own on that. So, what happened is that after WWII, after WWI, Russia started having communism, and they started having influence and some of the people, especially the ones that were Ruthenians, they were for the Russians. So, what happened is that they had an election of the new officers for the church, they got there people, and they had a filibuster. The Sunday after that, they talked and talked until the people got sick and they went home, and then they elected their own people into that. So then they confronted the priests and they wanted to do things their way and the priests could not accept it that way, so they took them to court. So, just one step backwards. In 1905, the first bishop, eastern right came to United States. His name was Ortynsky (Stehen Soter Ortynsku), he was Ukrainian. He blessed the church, everything, it was legally everything complete. But, when they went to court, because it was under laws of corporation, they lost. So that's why that church, I was baptized there on that. In 1939, and my mother said it was a very sad day because when they lost they had to, there's a little building on the corner of Glenwood avenue and --Downs avenue. It was a building, it was like a cellar and my mother says that they had a precession with the communion from St. Michaels. I'd say it's about 10 blocks, they preceded it to that church. So we had the two churches together. So during, this was 1939, it must have been like 1941 I think around there. We had a mission in that church, but the mission that we were given were Brazilian fathers, which was Ukrainian. So they had it and we had a man that used to be a letter writer. He used to write to the bishop everywhere he went, we wanted the Ukrainian church here. So when they came in for the mission, he talked to them, and they said "well we're gonna look into that." So, in 1944, and I remember the date it was in September of 1944, he came to my brother's house. Now, mind you during the war, my entire family lived up to my brother's house. My brother had house, in fact that she lives in there (referring to her great-grandniece that was also getting interviewed at the time) has twenty-two rooms! Both: Wow! AC: It's a grid so nineteen of us lived there. So the priest, he came with the priest and he said that we have a priest, we have a church, and this is our pastor. And what got me is that when he spoke, he spoke the same way we did in the house. It was not dialect on that. So we had a protestant church that they bought in the hall that they bought that they had on there. And as I say, we going on, and after the war there was not that many, like sixty families to start with, but then when WWII was over, the people started coming, this was the only Catholic Ukrainian church in the area so they came here. We have in fact an awful lot of people who are from Europe-- even the younger ones, I mean they got remarried but they were from Ukraine. So, it was around 1970 we already had enough money to start building the church. I remember in the old church they used to, in fact the fathers got the architectural sketch and what the church is supposed to look like. So it was as you entered it that church was there for five years. So it came time that we had enough money we're gonna build a church--can't build it. Because there was a steel crunch. No can build, everything was all steel. So, they're making they had the church committee, in fact and my brother was one of them that was on the church committee on the building committee so they going "what should we do?" So one of the other men that was on the committee says "well how about a wooden church?" So that's the alternative. So, I went I was one of them that went to Glen Spay, they're a small church there's hunter, there's two churches that were wooden. So my brother, my oldest brother Mike he used to work for a lumber company and he wanted to go and see a church because he wanted to find out what are the problems of a wooden church you know? You don't know. So we come in there and we were very impressed and they --we had to find an architect that was from Europe, and we had his name was Osadca (Apollinaire Osadca, [1916 - 1997], Ukrainian-American architect) and he come in there and we had a, I can't remember all of the names of the architects and all that that worked with that but he had he drew the plans and then, the inside of the church we had local guy that had--local umm what's the name, builder that had people that were crafty they were specialists and things, in fact they didn't even belong to the union and the union could not do anything because they didn't have the workers that could do this kind of work. So they got the things on there, and then we had one man that was from Europe that built the inside, the icons, the screen and all he was sick, and in that he built the icon screen for that, so we were very fortunate. But if he did not--there never was a steel crunch in the United States as I remember and it never--since before then or since then, but it was just at that time. And if it was not for that, our church would not have been here, this would not been here. So it was like a--the church, god wanted our church here. And we've had people here from all over the world we have a ledger in church and it's not very big but this is already like the second one they had from that place and our church opened in November of 1977. A strange part about our church is that our church started in 1944, this one was built in 1977, and our hall was built in 1988 so it seems that the double numbers are all for our church on that. BC: Maybe it worked out for the best because this church is very beautiful. AC: We're very happy on it. When I remember they were building the Orthodox Church, its down I don't know if you could see it you can see it if you go down the street this way. When I went there inside naturally we went to see it because it was Ukrainian of course you'll go see it. And I was thinking "boy, we could not, we could never get anything that would be nicer than that." And turns out, that we got the thing, and our church has been on television, and newspapers you name it, all over the world if you'd have that. We've had people come down here in fact, one day I came in because I was working in the church I used to, when I was young do a lot of cleaning and stuff that was you know a job. Came in and a guys out here and I said "What are you doing here?" he says he was from Ohio and he wanted to ask if he could see the inside of the church. He says well I'm looking into, we want to build a wooden church he'd like to see the church. So people all over are very interested. And as I say they've been from all countries, you can't believe the countries that we've had, people that come to visit us. BC: Maybe you're starting a trend! AC: Well you know what, well the first 15 years when the church was thing, they used to have busloads. My sister lived down the street and anytime they used to go down there and my brother in law had to open the church if father wasn't here to open the church for them to see. But we had busloads of people that came to see the church. BC: That's impressive! Now umm I see there's a lot of umm decorations around here so it's not just the church services that bring people together there's more parts of it? AC: Well, we have where the project is that we're active, we have dancers. So they have on that, so they have -- all the traditions. Our weddings are traditional I says that on that things on there. So everything is on and they are, and we have to work, we are very fortunate because one of our pastors went to Florida church and they said they had Friday dinners. So he came up here and festivals, not festivals, bazaars. So he came up, and that's when we started, we started to have making, first it was only the pierogis on that they sold. And then he got Friday dinners, and we in fact we just had the festival was just-- day before Palm Sunday the day before and on that. We made very very good, we wouldn't be able to keep the church without that, God's very good to us because we're making very good money to be able to upkeep. We can't--we had to replace the roof on that. And we were able to pay for it full, they did all driveways, everything they had to do we had the money, but we had to work on it. We don't have money out of our own pockets but we worked for it. And they did too! Because when we come in there--if you come in there on when they have Friday dinners, the young ones are serving just like the things they have to do just like they got their job we got schedules everybody does their jobs. I come in on Tuesday because I come in Tuesday we make the golabki. On Wednesday morning I come in and make the pierogis. We have a schedule for everything for the whole week. We have a group that comes in there that hard boils the cabbage. We have a group come in there a guy come in there, couples that peel the onions, and we have a group that have to get the eyes out, chop the potatoes up for the pierogis on that. We have somebody that has to see that all the stuff is brought there on there. Then we have a guy that comes in a couple of them that come in they pack the golabki and the pierogis they pack them on it. We got everything all situated for everyday for that. DT: What is golabki? AC: Pigs in a blanket. Both: Ahh! AC: Golabki, that's what it is. BC: And everyone does this in their free time? AC: This all for volunteer, and they do it for all that. And I say that they come in and then they have on Tuesdays they come in the young people they and father has catechism and they have dance practice on Tuesdays. And then a lot of times they've been, dancers have appeared in a lot of other places so they have to have extra dancing on that. We've been fortunate we've had dancers from all. It was fortunate for us that when the people start coming from Ukraine and they were in concentration camps, you know in camps? All the Ukrainians came in there so what they did is what were they gonna do? There was professors and stuff on there, so people went to school. We had, they had choirs, they had dancing and everything and people learned! Things on it in there. My sister in law, my sister in law her father was a school professor a--the head guy in the school-- the principal in a high school that's what he had in Europe on that so, and then so we were fortunate on things like that. So anything else you need to know, on that? BC: Well our time is running out, is there anything else you want to tell us? AC: Well I think we about covered whatever on that, everything on there. I can't think of anything that would be on there--as I said we're very fortunate we can keep up in there and we're very fortunate to have father, father is very good if not for father, father's a business man. AC: He goes on television, you'd be surprised--one of my niece's brother in-law says that he would make a good politician because when he goes, he goes to TV station they love him over there, he very good with people on that and things. So we're very fortunate. And what's very good to is we do get along with all the other churches like there's not a lot of things. I don't know if they have it anymore, but they used to have--in the city they had a group that used to go visit the golden dome churches. So they used to go from church to church to see all the different. In fact they didn't come every year but they would come over here and father would explain things on it. And what happens when we have a--our bazaar, father has to go and people come they want to see he has to go to church and explain that the different things we have in church on there. I understand-- like your point because you're Latin rite? I grew up in the Roman Catholic because I went on that. We didn't know I was already on 12th year when the church started. So mostly, I went to first holy communion on the Latin rite because there was no place for us to go, it wasn't here. And I know more about the Latin rite than I do about our rite on that, so-- BC: Well, thank you so much for your time. AC: Hey, you're welcome. (End of Interview)    Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann B. Czebiniak Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Czebiniak, Ann B. ; Comuniello, Briana ; Tenbus, Drew Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Ann B. Czebiniak is a first generation Ukrainian American who was born in Johnson City, NY, and worked for IBM. She is not married but has a large extended family. She is a member of Ukrainian Catholic Church and resides in the Southern Tier with her family. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-04-10 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AnnCzebiniak.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-07-07 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Ukrainian Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 62:00 Subject The topic of the resource Czebiniak, Ann.--Interviews; Ukrainians--United States; Diaspora, Ukraine—History; Russian; Poland; Migrations; Church; Ethnic identity; Manors and customs; Ukrainian cooking; Broome County (N.Y.) https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7f201b9276f460e0b26f2130470879bc.mp3 839ffc5658ae6bc3b06b306f0001baa6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elwood, Ann Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-09-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:43 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55898">Interview with Ann Elwood</a> Subject LCSH Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Ann Elwood Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 8 September 1978 Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we start this interview by having you tell us where you were born and any of your recollections of your early childhood and something about your parents? Ann: I was born in Jamison, Pennsylvania, and I lived there until possibly I was, ah, five or six years of age, and my father was in ill health and was told that he must go to the Walter Reed Hospital so we moved from there to Bridgeville, Delaware, where he purchased a fruit farm. And that was, ah, operated by a couple that, ah, operate farms—ah, professional farmers—and we stayed there for three years when, ah, it was decided that he had surgery and he wished to move back to Binghamton where he'd be close to his family, as he was born in—ah, he was a Canadian and ah, and then he moved back to his father's and mother’s home in Franklin Forks, Pennsylvania, and we came back to Binghamton in April 1911, and he went in the hospital on April 2nd and had his surgery and passed away on June 25th of that year. Now his business when he was living in Pennsylvania was a lumberman and he disposed of that at the time of moving south. What else? Oh, and I—I attended the Binghamton schools, and after graduation I went to Lowell School of Business and took a business course in stenography, and they placed me with Bradstreets at the time I finished, about the time I finished my course, and Bradstreets was a mercantile agency and from there I went with, ah, the insurance firm of Steel and Powell in the Press Building and operated an Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine and took over the credits in that office. And after operating—being taught the operation of the Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine, the company wanted me to, ah, go with them and make installation of machines where they sold them in various places, which I did. I installed—err, they installed the machine in the agriculture department in Ithaca at Cornell University and I taught the operator there, and also two firms in Elmira, an automobile concern and a big agriculture business and several other places. Then my mother didn't want me to be out of town so much, so I gave that up and came back and was employed in the County Clerk's office for six years, and I also did credit work in the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company for several years before I had the opportunity to go to this NY State Senate in Albany, being the first woman from Broome County to be an employee of the Senate, and that was in 1939 and I was there for 27 years. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us something of your duties as a journal clerk in the Senate? Ann: I went to the NY State Senate in 1939 and l—ah, was given an opportunity to be chosen as a person to study and familiarize myself with the various departments to perform in case of an emergency and my, ah—the principal job that I had was assistant journal clerk. Now, the journal is composed of all the activities of the Senate from the time that the legislature convenes until it adjourns, every action and performance in the Senate Chamber is on record in the journal that pertains to the introduction and the complete procedure of each and every bill until it is passed or—or defeated, or doesn't come out of committee, so to speak. Now the—the importance of that office is to keep the journal for the Senate and it's compiled at the end of the session and is composed of many thousands of sheets. I had to edit the journal to see that all, ah, procedures were followed and that each bill that passed had the proper procedure and, ah, then the committees had to be referred to see that it was properly referred to the committees, and ah, was properly sent to the Governor for signature and then it was returned as a signed bill with a chapter number, and the chapter number had to be noted in the journal when it was signed by the Governor. The, ah—the journal clerk’s office also is responsible for the publication of all journal documents and all of the forms used, which would be over a hundred. They have to be controlled in the journal clerk’s office as to proper procedure and information and data on each form. All, ah—all nominations come from the Governor to the journal clerk’s office and are referred to the Finance Committee before going to the Senate for passage, and after passage they, ah, are signed and returned to the Secretary of State’s Office, but the governor has to submit all his nominations to us first. This, ah, procedure is, ah, very important and it applies only to the top officials of each and every department and those that the governor has the authority to appoint. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, during this time, ah, do you want to tell us about you—you met Mr. Elwood and you were married? Ann: Oh yes, I met Mr. Elwood. He was, ah—he was, ah, in World War I, and I met him and was married, and he, ah—he was a, a deputy sheriff and ah, also in fact I met him through our office. He was employed in Bradstreet when I was employed there. There is where I met him, and he passed away from a—a disease contracted during World War I. He passed away in 1941 and we had a, one daughter, Constance Elwood, who is now Mrs. Herbert J. Wilk, and ah— Susan: Her husband is the physician? Ann: Her husband is a surgeon and, ah, operating in the Binghamton hospitals, the Binghamton General Hospital and Lourdes and of course he does work at Wilson. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us now, ah, some of the interesting events that you attended or some of the important people that came into your life during this period? Ann: Well I met many important people, all of whom I just can't recall now, but some of the events that I attended, and I think I got now my invitation because of, my position up here was, I was invited to two inaugural conventions at, ah, in Washington and, ah, two inaugural balls, I mean, in Washington, and ah, I was a guest at an Electoral College, which is a very rare occasion for an outsider, but they're held when the New York Electoral College is held in Albany in the Senate Chamber under the auspices of the Secretary of State, and I had a— And when I was in Albany I also, was acted in the, ah, Red Cross in World War II. I was a member of the motor corps, and during my experiences there I made several convoys, two to Camp Dix, one conveying, ah, ten-ton trucks to Camp Dix and the other driving Jeeps, and we made two trips to Camp Devan—one conveying, ah, Packard Ambulances, and the other, Ford Ambulances, which was very interesting and something that we all enjoyed. You—you convey the vehicle to the camp and then a large bus meets you there and returns you to Albany. Ah, this work was very, ah, very interesting because it also took us to airports at night when secret airplanes were coming in with either injured soldiers or officers, transferring them from one place to another, and the Motor Corps was called on to respond with coffee and sandwiches and something for them to nourish their bodies, and ah, this was always a secret affair. We must never know only about five or ten minutes before we had to make a trip where we were going and what we were going to do, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you recall, ah, for us some of your memories of how Binghamton was in the early days? Ann: Well, when I came here we used to have streetcars and we went to the park—to Ross Park, which was the most popular playground and place in Binghamton. Every Sunday they had a band concert there and the park was filled with people. Then we used to go to Ideal Park, it was another popular place, and during the summer we belonged to the Orange Circuit, Orange County Circuit of Races, and they had horse racing there each summer, which we attended and ah, the, ah—I know we used to go by streetcar down there, and I think it cost us a nickel, no more than a dime. I know to go all the way from Binghamton down to Endicott I think it was a nickel, and the price on our streetcars were a nickel and the—and now—and then we had the YMCA, which was a popular place for the men, and I remember that vividly because our Republican Headquarters were located for many years in the old Bennett Hotel, ah, then later known as the Hotel Bingham, which was right across the street—of course those places have been dismantled now and torn down and replaced by other types of business, ah—and the Arlington, we moved from the Bingham to, ah, the Arlington, and stayed there as long as they were on top and when they decided to dissolve, why, we moved out and that building was soon destroyed. I mean dismantled and, ah—it seems I have moved around and been in all the landmarks of Binghamton through one way or another and when I went to school we, ah—our school, for a two or three years while they were finishing high school, we went to, ah, the school building in the old police headquarters at the corner of Washington and Hawley Street, and then from there to the new Central High. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go on and have you tell us some of the clubs that you belong to? Ann: Well, I belong to the Monday Afternoon Club and I'm an active member in the, ah, Zonta Club of Binghamton, of which we have now, I think, the first club in Binghamton, male or female club, that has an international officer, and we have the international president of the Zonta Club of Binghamton and we're honoring her on September 23rd, and that's ah, Evelyn Dewitt, and ah, I belong to the Republican Club, several Republican clubs, and ah, the American Legion Auxiliary. I'm a fifty-year member of the American Legion Auxiliary and also a member of the Eight and Forty and, ah, held all the offices in the Auxiliary American Legion, Post 80 Auxiliary, except the president, and I, ah, was unable to accept that because my mother had died and I had to stay home to take care of my daughter, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go back and review, ah, the part of your life where you mention you had gone to, ah, two of the inaugural balls? Who were the Presidents at that time? Ann: The President at that time was President Eisenhower—I went to his inaugural ball and also the one for Nixon, and while we're on the subject of presidential officials, I would like to say that it was my pleasure to meet Mr. Rockefeller previous to his being selected, selected as our candidate for Governor. He was chosen in the Senate while I was there as chairman of the Constitutional Convention Committee, and George Hinman brought him in during an intermission in my office so I could meet Mr. Rockefeller, and ah, I told him that I was very pleased because I—I read from the papers that he is going to be our next Governor and I also, and I did neglect to tell you that in November 1977 l was chosen as the Woman of the Year by the Status of Women Council in—in, ah, Binghamton. Susan: That's fine. You certainly have been a very active lady in this community, Mrs. Elwood. Ann: Oh! Thank you. Susan: And it's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you very much for the interview. Ann: Well, I've enjoyed this very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann Elwood Subject The topic of the resource Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Description An account of the resource Ann Elwood talks about her moves from Bridgeville, DE, to Franklin Forks, PA, and her final settlement in Binghamton, NY, in 1911. She attended the Lowell School of Business and worked in business before becoming an assistant journal clerk in the New York State Senate and working for 27 years. She also discusses living in Albany (NY) and her involvement in the Red Cross Motor Corps during World War II and several social and political clubs in the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 18 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Elwood, Ann ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-09-08 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16:43 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f56fb6173268435ba1e46feb34826063.pdf 9ba50e40e7c67035e91ce2b86ff4452e PDF Text Text /1.ctio:1 for ,l.l�'...::r Pcr,;0:1:;, I.1c. j";roo:·'.2 Cou:1c,.- ,:curt :.o,r:,:, :'.:- .. Court . . rl 11:. 2 S •! 1, .11· 2 �i11":1:u1to!l, .:2·,· Yor·:: lJ '"l Tc:le:1irn:1c: (:,,J7) 72'.2-·1'2)1 Jf'Ju.. i.lSTO?,Y PJWG:'J1.: i Jurin� the -:-iast ye2.r, )'OU \/ere intervic,,c.! '.:>:• c1 !'erson froiJ our vr::il Li.story I'ro:_:;ram, so th£1t 2 tape r<Jcorcin:3 of vour recollections could be ::.1a<le. ·i·:1e t.:ircs Fill be c1vailablc for ye.:irs to co!'ie to per:,ons u::JcrstancJ nor2 about ,:;;.:it life uas like ::Jec.:1cJcs ;:i�o. 11:10 ·,->is11 to · ,_, :1re pL:i:1ni:1 n to place t:1esc tape rccordin::;s, along \·Jith 1.-rittcn Lr.:.1scri;)ts of ti1�1�, at tlic library of s 1 ·:r{/�in::;r1.1,.1ton anG at t!1c �rom1e Countv liistorical Sl)ciety. '..;ould you ;:indly si::;n and retur:1 to us the .:iutnoriz.::i tion i:or111 helon _ o that ,;e u;:iy co this, anC: �o t:1at ot:1ers P1ay benefit fro:J l1earin: t'.1cse il'lport;:int recon.lin�,s. Plense enclose tl1is s;1eet of paper in the return cnv�2.ope t:1::it 2.cco11:).Jnics t:1is letter. T'nan'.-: you a�ain for your '.:illin::;ness to pnrticipate in this pro�r.:1::1. ;', , ... I '.1crcu:' outhorize i'.ction for Older Persoi1S to nl2cc t·:1e recorJinG of TJ)' coi1versi:'ltion r.1.:1ue ,mJcr the Oral i:istory Pro3raE1 ;it local lil>r.:1ries, so that "j t ::1c1:• i)_ listcncC: to (or t:1e transcript read) bv persons uis:iin� to .�now ·.,\ire :10out Lie iiistory of our ar<:'.a. (Date) (,'\._ ·\\.,V\. [� J _1 ' • I �ACTION FOR OLDER PERSONS Broome County Oral History Project March 6, 1978 ABSTRACT Mrs. Anna Borsuk was born in 1891 in Pittsburgh Penn. Spent her early years growing up in Pennsylvania then came to Binghamton in 1915. She worked in hotels as a waitress and all around girl, i1ent to work in a hotel in New York City while there learned the beauty parlor business and opened one of the first beauty parlors in Bing hamton in the Press Building. Waving. Her salon was the first to have Marcel She also ran a tourist house. She mentions her poor health suffering from tuberculosis and her struggle to raise her son alone. She also mentions the help from welfare later in her life and the kindness of the people from urban renewal in relocating her in an apartment at the highrise for the elderly at 24 Isbell St., Binghamton, New York. �ACTION for Older Persons 1 Inc. Broome County Court House, Room 307 Court House Square, Binghamton, New York 13901 Telephone (607) 722-1251 BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview Transcription Interviewer: Date: 3/6/78 Susan Dobandi Address: Person Interviewed: Address: Tape No.: 295 Front St., Binghamton N. Y. Miss Anna Horsuk 24 Isabell St., Binghamton N. Y. Date of Birth or approximate age: 87 This is Susan Dobandi interviewer and I'm talking with Miss Anna Borsuk who lives at 24 Isabell St., Binghamton, N. Y. The date is Mar. 6, 1978. ( Anna, Could you tell us something about your early beginnings where you were born, any recollections of your childhood? ) Anna: Yes, I can - I can remember bh from the age of 5 ·or 6 I guess I remember. ( Where were you born?) Anna: I was born in Pittsburgh Pa. - - We moved from there to Mayfair, Penn. and I was I guess I must have been 8 or 9 years old. From there we moved again to Carbondale, Penn. and I started to work in a hotel. I was there 5 years as a waitress and all around girl. - - I'm ahead of my story but lets see I got married before I started working at the hotel. �Anna Borsuk Page 2 I was married when I was sixteen years old and a I had my son, my son and then when he was a year and a half old I left and went to the hotel. I went to work as a waitress and I was there 5 years and I met some good friends there who were salesman - saw how hard D worked and how much money I was making and they felt sorry for me and I in the meantime my mothers and fathers home burned down and they lost everything and I felt very badly while I was working some of the guests noticed me that I felt badly and they asked why I was upset and I told them that we had lost our home. We lost everything and they said why do you stay here in Carbondale and work in this hotel ? You work too hard they used to tell me and a I really don't know whether too - ') 0 ., 1-< >I L ... h� Why don't you move to Lestershire? We'll see. W" �· '> So, Mr. Bennett ', a salesman for ladies hats and used to come around and show his hats around. In those days the salesman used to bring their stuff to different hotels. They didn't have it the way they do now and he travel- ed by train and then so I came home and,told my mother the good news and she was delighted to hear it and she said II Oh Anna please go to Binghamton. Your sisters are getting older now and they - they could work and help us. 11 Y,c l',n,u My father was a miner and he wasn't getting any money•ott�. So, mother had a garden and she had chickens and she had everything we lived off that rather my family lived of course I was working and I came to Binghamton and it was June 15, 1915. -l�n'<-' I'll never forget that was a rainy da�. I came here and I was soaked and raining very hard that day and I was soaken wet and my sister Julia which was next to me If you come with me I'll find you a job. So, while I was here - while I was here in Binghamton I did not know a soul nobody and I stopped at the Press building and I looked in the dictionary to find out where the Russian �Anna Borsuk Page 3 are - I thought wherever there are Russian Churches then there are some Russian people and they would help me and sure enough I - I took a street car and I forget an old factory a cigar factory people were in there and I could smell the odor from cigars and that was something new - and I got off at the church right on Clinton St. St. Michael's Church and across the street I noticed a Russian name and I went in there and I spoke to him in Russian and he answered me and I asked him that I'm a stranger and I'm looking for a house for my family and a he said well there is - I don't know anything about it he said to me I couldn't tell you but my wife is coming home if you'll wait she'll be here any minute and sure enough she came in and she ��d yes, I'll take you to the lady on the corner of Charles and Grace St. and the lady is giving up her apartment. So, I went in there with Mary Driscoll her name was Driscoll and she spoke to the lady for me and I told her and she said yes, I'm moving out right now but I thought who owned the property but I supposed that she was the landlord and she told me that Dr. Hutchings on Front St. so I went there all in one day I did all that. I went there and I met this doctor and I told him my story, my sad story and he was very kind and very helpful and he said a I'll rent you this house as soon as you can get here and I'll help you all I can. So, he a I said well we have nothing - nothing to bring over because everything was burned down. My mother was living with her sister and so I - I stayed here one day and then I went to the shoe factory Dunn McCarthy's and a I wanted to talk to the foreman or the superintendent and a I met a very nice man and I - I should remember his name because he was a wonderful to me. I was a child. He talked to me like He said " My dear girl he said you bring your sisters here and I'll give them a job and bring your father and I'll give him a job too." So, I felt I was delighted and a a I was on the verge to go back to the �Anna Borsuk Page 4 hotel because I know my manager there would be displeased that I left and a I said a I have to go back to Carbondale to my job and they gave me only one day off and a so we hurried, we hurried and hurried and I wanted to get off and anyway I had everything arranged and we said Dr.Hutchings I think that was a his name Dr. Hutchings - they used to live by up there it's hard to say up there you know from the corner the third house up there you know. I think probably it's still there. He said, 11 I won't charge you any rent I won't expect anything from you whatever you can do so I - I didn't have to pay any rent any - anway I didn't have any money and a see I dont know what to say. Yes - so this neighbor the next door neighbor from the house that we were going to move into they were Slovish people - I think they're name was Kusmach. I asked them if my sister could stay there all night with them - with them while I go home and break the news and my family would come here right away and then she stayed there she began to cry Julia did she thought she's among strangers you know and she was oh about 15 years old and a well anyway Julia you have a job and there are two girls in the family there and they have supported her too because they were working too so then I said goodbye to her and she cried and I cried too. I came to the station. on my way to the station in the rain the next day. I was I had to spend the night over in the neighbors house and a the next day I was going to the station and Mr. Hart and Mr. Bennett the two salesman that had told me to come here, I ran into them or rather they ran into me and he said what are you doing here Anna? And I said well Mr. Bennett you told me to go to Lestershire so I came to Lestershire and I have everything arranged and they were very surprised that I did it so quickly so then I said a and then Mr. Bennett and Mr. Hart said to me well where are you going? �Anna Borsuk What are you going to do? Page 5 I said well I'm going back to the American Hotel because Mr. & Mrs. Mccann will be cross with me that I'm taking off and they took me by the arm and they said you're not going back there you're working like a slave there and it's too much for you. We're going to intro duce you to a hotel manager here and they took me to the Bennett Hotel. That's the Bennett at that time and it was a very nice hotel at that time. They introduced me to the manager I think his name was Mr. Proseman and his beautiful wife and a Mr. Proseman said that I was a very fine girl and I was supporting my son and he told them the story and a they gave me the job right away and I was there for about a year and when some other friends that recognized me in the lobby some of the people who remembered me from Carbondale saw me there working there and a Mr. Bennett waiting on the table that I waited on the manager and his wife I just hadone table just the family and a so I felt kind of proud you know that they ch'ose me among all the others you know so I felt kind of well I was I was just a very happy about it that everything that I had so many friends that were helping me and I was they just a - they were so pleased I do whatever they suggested everything. I and a I a I called well anyway I said alright I'll have to go back to Carbondale and give my notice that I'm coming and I went back and the manager and his wife didn't want to let me go. They didn't want to pay me but they said you gotta stay here and I said I can't I promised I'm going there and I said my family is going there and my little boy was you know with my mother and my son was going to be a year and half old and a I said wherever he's gonna be I ought to be there too. reluctant to let me go. So they were very They didn't like it and a so as I said in the - I worked only one year at the Bennett and one of the other guests recognized me and they said we can find you a better place than this to work so �Anna Borsuk Page 6 they went to the Arlington Hotel and spoke to Mr. Turney the old gentleman Turney was in there you know there at that time. They spoke c.\� to him and told him about me and that I was a hard worker and,a very decent girl and all that and of course they were giving me all that recommendation I didn'thave to tell them all that about myself but a they all felt sorry for me that I had such big responsibilities and the guests were always very nice to me in every hotel whereever I worked and a finally a I got the job at the Arlington and I left the Bennett which was not a nice thing$ to do because they were nice to me I had no reason to leave to leave but a a they thought that I would do better at the Arlington which I did because they gave me more money and that helped. I had to give so much money to my mother to help her towards my son's support and his Ir r ,-i-, • r [, f>, - clothes and everything and a of course before that I was separated from my � husband but he wasn't supporting me. He was working on the railroad and he was drinking and he just didn't care about - about the baby or me or anything. He never gave me any money so I just - I just left him - I couldn't - I didn't want to continue living with him and have anymore I stayed at the Arlington for 5 years then I went to New York City and I started working at the Statler Hotel which was only there two years before and I a I was there only a year at this hotel and then I noticed they were opening up a beauty parlor on the mezzanine floor and I had an interview myself I kept thinking about my poor sisters working in the shoe factory and I thought what a wonderful idea it would be if they would take a beauty parlor work and a go into that kind of work. I couldn't afford to - to work at the salaries that the learners in those days they didn't have �Anna Borsuk Page 7 beauty - beauty schools like they have now cause we had to work in the beauty parlor as an apprentice and you only got $12.00 a week. A girl that just took up hair and keep the box filled and so I got my sister in New York and she got the job at the President at the they called it Pennsylvania the Statler Hotel and she was there for a while and I had to leave her because my mother had a big 12 family apartment in Binghamton and she thought that I should be with her that I that she couldn't get along without me being there to help her with the and she wrote me that I'm breaking up her home by taking my sisters away and I left the Statler Hotel to be with my mother to help her with that big property she got. And my sister liked New York so well she stayed and she had been modeling and - and a she made good money and she stayed about 2 years but while I was here trying to help my mother with that big 12 family apartment house and she came back - finally she came back and then I said well I'm going to look around Binghamton and see if we can find a little place where we can start a little beauty parlor. Of course my sister took up marcel waving we were the first people that had that method you know when we came here. She took that up in New York and of course Dorothy too was a manicurist and my second sister and so the two of them had a little training and so I found a location in a beauty parlor I ran around Binghamton and asked different people what to do with it. Get a good place and my lawyer my family lawyer Mr. Polletta told me to talk to Mr. Tyler which was the superintendent of the Press building at the time and I spoke to Mr. Tyler rather Mr. Polletta spoke to him first and he gave me a little room that had only 2 chairs and two dryers and 2 manicuring tables?course I had to buy my equipment in New York. They didn't have any equipment up here in Binghamton and so I had to order it there and mother came to New York an gave me the money for the equipment and begged me to �Anna Borsuk Page 8 come home with tears in her eyes and I agreed to come home and bring the girls back home and so they my sisters wanted to stay away because the found more opportunities and finally when I opened the beauty parlor and Martha and I were the first two that were working there. ( Can you recall any of the prices at that time?) Oh, yes the manicures were SO� and our shampoo was SO� and of course the only big item they were the highest was the permanent wave which I was doing that was my speciality I charged $6.00. I had the beauty parlor where I'd have to go to New York to the hairdressers show every six months take just take up the Eugene Wave by Mr. Eugene himself personally gave me the instructions. That was the Marcel wave, the permanent wave they used to call it a Marcel so then my sister Martha was lliss Martha she was giving a marcel with an iron you knowbut I was so we made a big hit in Binghamton and then we outgrew the beauty parlor it was too small for the business. It just boomed the first year that we were there. only a year. We were there I spoke to Mr. Tyler that - that I'd like to move into a larger room and he said that Judge Parson is moving away from - he's giving th•r up his position and he's right on a corner he has two rooms. he said I could take the partition down and you could enlarge it would be an L shaped beauty parlor for you but you could have as many boothSas you want so I said that would be fine so Mr. Tyler the superintendent was very nice to me. He suggested it and I - I thought of course it was a good idea so I said I'd appreciate it very much I think if you would do that because I have two cth!r sisters that are ready to come in with me and we wouldn't fit in this little room we have here. They did it in a hurray and they did special piping for us and 9lso drains from each booth from the shampooing booth. We had seven �Anna Borsuk Page 9 shampoo booths and 3 manicuring tables and one barber chair - hair cutting chair and I have some pictures of that and a we did very good business and and of course all my sisters were in by that time they all 4 of us - 5 of us and I - I was about I used to give six and seven permanents a day and I got terribly run down and I got a cold one day and I just thought well maybe I need a change I'll go to New York maybe I just need a change I thought you know because I had so much responsibility so I packed my little bag and I went. My mother didn't approve, my sisters didn't nobody approved of me going but I said I'm getting away from everything I can't take it I didn't realize I was sick although my doctor kept telling me that I'm going to get sick and he threatened me that I'm going to get sick. He told his wife was a customer of mine, his daughter was my customer and his aunt and they all saw how hard I worked. I used to work from 8 o'clock until lo every night and I never had time to eat my lunch and if I did I - I had indigestion and the doctor said before I go to lunch to lay down for a minute before I go - he said if you don't be careful you're going to get TB Dr. Arfonse said that to me and I said a no I said I'm not going to get TB I'll be alright so I just packed my suitcase and I went to New York and I went to Sacks Fifth Ave., N. Y. and I talked to the manager there about a and he gave it to me. job I was working there about 4 months when one day I had a spell while I was on duty and a there were two - four girls there they were Russian girls there they were from Russia and they were only shampoo girls they were really they came they were refuges from Russia here and they didn't know nothing about hair work but the only thing they could do was wash the hair and they saw that I looked sick and then they took me over to the clinic it was on the ninth floor and the doctor and the nurse said they had one room just like a hospital and they found that I had TB. They sent �Anna Borsuk Page 10 me away for a year and then I came back home cured and I couldn't go back to the beauty parlor because there was something about the cosmetics that I would cough and I - I thought well I'd sit at the desk and just get the appointments prepare the customers and let the girls do the rest. We had 13 girls working there by that time, colored girls too and we were teaching girls beauty work and I know my uncle came here from Pittsburgh and he 'd say I don't know why your teaching anybody they're ti h' .:I, going to take business away from you b�� they did but it - it didn't hurt us and a because the business kept booming and a so I a was managing it from the house and the girls would come home and tell my mother that Anna's coughing too much and they were trying to keep my condition secrete from my customers nobody didn't know so then my mother said why don't you stay home Anna and we have a big house a 22 room house on Court St. there why don't you do something with this you seem to know what to do so I said the only thing I could think of is start a ourist house now that I'm sick and can't work in the beauty parlor anymore for another year the doctor say I can't go to the beauty parlor for another year until they pronounce me arrested - my case arrested. I had to go to the doctor every month to be exrayed and questioned and so I started the trurist business and that business boomed you know and I ran that for 13 years. And talk about my mother got sick gall bladder and she she didn't get up in time she got this palsey you know so that when she got down here she needed me so I was a nurse I was taking care of my mother and I was running the tourist house. I used to have 30 people in my house every night during the summer and I had to show them the rooms go run outdoors and show them where to park the cars. I did that for 13 years and then my mother passed away and then you know she passed away and a then I had another breakdown �Anna Borsuk Page 11 after she died with pleursy on my bad lung and I was in the hospital 11 weeks and the doctor hollered at hlY doctor and he shook his finger at me that I'm not being fair to my self but he pulled me through - I - I - I had a 103 temperature for 11 weeks and he called my daughter-in-law by that time my son was married and he told my daughter-in-law the things that that I did but a by that the family wanted to sell the house they thought it was too much for me and they all wanted to get out and on their own they were getting married and I didn't want to sell it because I wanted a home I wanted something if I knew I was going to live to this age I would have fought it more I would have kept it but I thought I'm finished because my family gave me up so many times then I had a second breakdown after we sold the house I had another breakdown of my lungs and I was at Chenango Bridge and I'm still here and but I still didn't give up I got back on my feet and started working again and a I a the family pressed me so hard to sell sell sell that I finally gave up and I sold it. to do. So then I wasn't welcome anyplace I - I just didn't know what What am I going to do. I - I - - - ( So what year did you come to the high rise?) Well I came to the high rise in 1968 when they just opened it. I'm here 10 years and well well first I - I traveled with a suitcase I went all over you know and the money that I had from the property you know 17 years I was doing nothing just traveling with a suitcase trying to make myself live someplace. I didn't know where I belonged and a as for a job they said they didn't want anybody at my age which was around 40 and I was around 40 and a I no matter what I did I was a telephone operator, I worked on a switchboard worked at the New York City hotel and I worked �Anna Borsuk Page 12 at the switchboard in the front here and I had all this experience and they didn't want to give me a job because of my age so I said what am I going to do. I just retired. Well I lived off the few hundred - thousand dollars that I got for 17 years but then the money was gone so I was older and I said what am I goingto do now so I had another good friend at the Bennett Hotel and he and I told him my story and he and his wife and he was Mr. Lamb I guess everybody in town knows him and about my story and he says well I can help you all I can say is a good work for you to go on welfare so I said yes I will go on welfare but I didn't my family and my son didn't know anything about it that I was doing that I was very independent I never went to any of them for a dollar or a coin - - or anything I'm kind of independent and I was too spunky you know my mother and father used to say to me I never seen anything like you if you make up your min� your gonna do it I still do, but a so then people were very kind to me the urban renewal people a a Margarette a a what's her name she's in the office over here. I can't think of her name now, she was very kind to me and she said I was living at the Arlington I was on welfare already and of course welfare were giving me only $85.00 a month and I hadto pay $50.00 rent so what did I have left so I used to do - I used to help a lot of little old ladies take them someplace and they'd buy my meal and a or I used to sew I I was a dressmaker for 3 years and then my eyesight failed t-h�l \.I/., failed me and I managed n-i:-eet� ut I always meet nice people that were couldsew. always very helpful to me all the time not that I - I didn't go to them purposefully to tell them my sad story but a I- I wanted to get along as best I could so then a - a well we were living at the Bennett you know the place was condemned the Bennett hotel and we were living there - �Anna Borsuk Page 13 there were about 20 of us ladies living there and a I couldn't make - I couldn't make ends meet so I used to take care of another sick lady but a retired from Washington from the Pengagon and she - I used to escort her around and sheused to buy my lunches for me. I used to escort her around town and well after that we had to move out of there. We were there I was there about 6 years at the Bennett and then the urban renewal moved us to the Arlington. We were supposed to bethere only one year but instead of that we figured two years waiting for this to be finished so then a the'd moved me here they a urban moved my furniture and they bought furniture that I have here. It's from the Arlington they bought it for me through thewelfare I don't know who paid for it and some of the odd pieces were given to me that I have but a so I have been here ever since. ( Well Anna, I think that we can close by saying that you have a very lovely attractive apartment so that you are comfortable.) Well a lot of people say that to me but a when a I was runningthe tourist house you know the guests used to come in and say that I had the cleanest house that I used to have the cleanest rooms of any tourist house that they ever had and they always came. house. We used to have a lot of flowers around the I had a lot of boxes and I know I had a hairdresser from New York City stop and he said he had his family with him and he saidwe went all over Binghamton and my family wanted to go in that house where all the beau tiful flowers are so they would come in and they would come in and they saw - I must say so but I had the flowers and everybody that came in that had children they said that it was the cleanest neatest place and I had 15 rooms to rent sometimes I had 30 people in one night in the house and I had all that laundry to take care of and I had all those beds to make myself. I was �Anna Borsuk Page 14 doing it myself do and but then I did breakdown after my mother died. ( Well now let's finish the story by telling the people how old you are you've lived throygh a great deal. ) Yes, well I - I'm 87 years old now and I don't know how much longer I'm going to live because everybody tells me I don't look my age. ( You don't look your age you're a very very attractive woman. ) But a I have this a chest condition - chest pains now and I don't know lately it's been kind of they've been kind of although I have a very good doctor he shakes his finger at me. ( Well let's just hope for the best. Mrs. Borsuk.) Thank you very much for the interview � https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d14f8cd82f5d117973cebf43420452d1.mp3 7bb74e2c7b4d9165847b18fc84742e19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Borsuk, Anna Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-06 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:55 minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55862">Interview with Anna Borsuk</a> Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Subject LCSH Borsuk, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pittsburgh (Pa.); Beauty shops; Tuberculosis -- Patients -- Interviews; Single mothers -- Interviews Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Miss Anna Borsuk Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 6 March 1978 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with Miss Anna Borsuk, who lives at 24 Isbell Street, Binghamton, NY. The date is March 6, 1978. Anna, Could you tell us something about your early beginnings, where you were born, any recollections of your childhood? Anna: Yes, I can—I can remember, oh, from the age of five or six, I guess, I remember. Susan: Where were you born? Anna: I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We moved from there to Mayfair, PA, and I was, I guess I must have been eight or nine years old. From there we moved again to Carbondale, PA, and I started to work in a hotel. I was there five years as a waitress and all-around girl. I'm ahead of my story, but let’s see, I got married before I started working at the hotel. I was married when I was sixteen years old and, ah, I had my son, my son, and then when he was a year and a half old I left and went to the hotel. I went to work as a waitress and I was there five years, and I met some good friends there who were salesmen—saw how hard I worked and how much money I was making and they felt sorry for me, and I—in the meantime my mother’s and father’s home burned down and they lost everything, and I felt very badly. While I was working some of the guests noticed me, that I felt badly, and they asked why I was upset, and I told them that we had lost our home—we lost everything—and they said, “Why do you stay here in Carbondale and work in this hotel? You work too hard,” they used to tell me, and ah, I really don't know whether to— “Why don't you move to Lestershire?”  “We'll see.” So, Mr. Bennett, you know, he was a salesman for ladies’ hats and used to come around and show his hats around. In those days the salesmen used to bring their stuff to different hotels. They didn't have it the way they do now, and he traveled by train and then, so I came home and I told my mother the good news, and she was delighted to hear it, and she said, “Oh, Anna, please go to Binghamton. Your sisters are getting older now and they—they could work and help us.” My father was a miner and he wasn't getting any money, you know. So, mother had a garden and she had chickens and she had everything, we lived off that—rather, my family lived, of course I was working—and I came to Binghamton and it was June 15, 1915. I'll never forget that was a rainy one. I came here and I was soaked and, raining very hard that day and I was soakin’ wet, and my sister Julia which was next to me— “If you come with me I'll find you a job.” So, while I was here—while I was here in Binghamton, I did not know a soul, nobody, and I stopped at the Press building and I looked in the dictionary to find out where the Russian are—I thought, wherever there are Russian Churches, then there are some Russian people and they would help me, and sure enough I—I took a streetcar and, I forget, an old factory, a cigar factory, people were in there and I could smell the odor from cigars, and that was something new—and I got off at the church right on Clinton Street, St. Michael's Church, and across the street I noticed a Russian name and I went in there and I spoke to him in Russian and he answered me, and I asked him that I'm a stranger and I'm looking for a house for my family and, ah, he said, “Well, there is—I don't know anything about it,” he said to me, “I couldn't tell you, but my wife is coming home. If you'll wait, she'll be here any minute,” and sure enough she came in and she said, “Yes, I'll take you to the lady on the corner of Charles and Grace Street, and the lady is giving up her apartment.” So, I went in there with Mary Driscoll, her name was Driscoll, and she spoke to the lady for me and I told her and she said, “Yes, I'm moving out right now,” but I thought, who owned the property? But I supposed that she was the landlord, and she told me that was Dr. Hutchings on Front Street so I went there, all in one day I did all that. I went there and I met this doctor and I told him my story, my sad story, and he was very kind and very helpful and he said, “Ah, I'll rent you this house as soon as you can get here and I'll help you all I can.” So he, ah, I said, “Well, we have nothing—nothing to bring over, because everything was burned down.” My mother was living with her sister and so I—I stayed here one day and then I went to the shoe factory, Dunn McCarthy's, and ah, I wanted to talk to the foreman or the superintendent, and ah, I met a very nice man and I—I should remember his name because he was, ah, wonderful to me. He talked to me like I was a child. He said, "My dear girl,” he said, “you bring your sisters here and I'll give them a job, and bring your father and I'll give him a job too.” So I felt, I was delighted, and ah, ah, I was on the verge to go back to the hotel because I know my manager there would be displeased that I left, and ah, I said, “Ah, I have to go back to Carbondale to my job and they gave me only one day off,” and ah, so we hurried, we hurried and hurried and I wanted to get off and, anyway, I had everything arranged, and we said, “Dr. Hutchings” —I think that was, ah, his name, Dr. Hutchings—they used to live by up there, it's hard to say up there, you know, from the corner, the third house up there, you know. I think probably it's still there. He said, “I won't charge you any rent, I won't expect anything from you, whatever you can do,” so I—I didn't have to pay any rent any—anyway, I didn't have any money and, ah, see, I don’t know what to say. Yes—so this neighbor, the next door neighbor from the house that we were going to move into, they were Slavish [Slavic] people—I think their name was Kusmach. I asked them if my sister could stay there all night with them—with them while I go home and break the news and my family would come here right away, and then she stayed there, she began to cry, Julia did. She thought, she's among strangers, you know, and she was, oh, about fifteen years old and, ah, well anyway, Julia, you have a job and there are two girls in the family there and they have supported her too, because they were working too, so then I said goodbye to her and she cried and I cried too. I came to the station. I was on my way to the station in the rain the next day. I had to spend the night over in the neighbors’ house and, ah, the next day I was going to the station, and Mr. Hart and Mr. Bennett, the two salesmen that had told me to come here, I ran into them, or rather they ran into me, and he said, “What are you doing here, Anna?” And I said, “Well, Mr. Bennett, you told me to go to Lestershire, so I came to Lestershire and I have everything arranged,” and they were very surprised that I did it so quickly, so then I said, ah, and then Mr. Bennett and Mr. Hart said to me, “Well, where are you going? What are you going to do?” I said, “Well, I'm going back to the American Hotel because Mr. & Mrs. McCann will be cross with me that I'm taking off,” and they took me by the arm and they said, “You're not going back there, you're working like a slave there and it's too much for you. We're going to introduce you to a hotel manager here,” and they took me to the Bennett Hotel. That's the Bennett at that time, and it was a very nice hotel at that time. They introduced me to the manager, I think his name was Mr. Proseman, and his beautiful wife, and ah, Mr. Proseman said that I was a very fine girl and I was supporting my son, and he told them the story and, ah, they gave me the job right away and I was there for about a year, and when some other friends that recognized me in the lobby, some of the people who remembered me from Carbondale saw me there working there and, ah, Mr. Bennett, waiting on the table that I waited on the manager and his wife—I just had one table, just the family, and ah, so I felt kind of proud, you know, that they chose me among all the others, you know, so I felt kind of, well, I was, I was just, ah, very happy about it, that everything, that I had so many friends that were helping me and I was, they just, ah—they were so pleased I’d do whatever they suggested, everything. I and, ah, I, ah, I called, well anyway, I said, “All right, I'll have to go back to Carbondale and give my notice that I'm coming,” and I went back and the manager and his wife didn't want to let me go. They didn't want to pay me, but they said, “You gotta stay here,” and I said, “I can't, I promised I'm going there,” and I said, “My family is going there,” and my little boy was, you know, with my mother, and my son was going to be a year and half old and, ah, I said, “Wherever he's gonna be, I ought to be there too.” So they were very reluctant to let me go. They didn't like it and, ah, so as I said in the—I worked only one year at the Bennett and one of the other guests recognized me and they said, “We can find you a better place than this to work,” so they went to the Arlington Hotel and spoke to Mr. Turney—the old gentleman Turney was in there, you know, there at that time. They spoke to him and told him about me and that I was a hard worker and a very decent girl and all that, and of course they were giving me all that recommendation, I didn't have to tell them all that about myself, but ah, they all felt sorry for me that I had such big responsibilities, and the guests were always very nice to me in every hotel wherever I worked, and ah, finally, ah, I got the job at the Arlington and I left the Bennett, which was not a nice thing to do because they were nice to me, I had no reason to leave to leave, but ah, ah, they thought that I would do better at the Arlington, which I did because they gave me more money and that helped. I had to give so much money to my mother to help her towards my son's support and his clothes and everything, and ah, of course at that time, before that, I was separated from my husband but he wasn't supporting me. He was working on the railroad and he was drinking and he just didn't care about—about the baby or me or anything. He never gave me any money, so I just—I just left him—I couldn't—I didn't want to continue living with him and have any more—- I stayed at the Arlington for five years, then I went to New York City and I started working at the Statler Hotel, which was only there two years before, and I, ah— I was there only a year at this hotel, and then I noticed they were opening up a beauty parlor on the mezzanine floor and I had an interview myself, I kept thinking about my poor sisters working in the shoe factory and I thought, what a wonderful idea it would be if they would take, ah, beauty parlor work and, ah, go into that kind of work. I couldn't afford to—to work at the salaries that the learners in those days, they didn't have beauty—beauty schools like they have now, ’cause we had to work in the beauty parlor as an apprentice and you only got $12.00 a week. A girl that just took up hair and keep the box filled, and so I got my sister in New York and she got the job at the President, at the, they called it “Pennsylvania,” the Statler Hotel, and she was there for a while, and I had to leave her because my mother had a big twelve-family apartment in Binghamton and she thought that I should be with her, that I, that she couldn't get along without me being there to help her with the, and she wrote me that I'm breaking up her home by taking my sisters away, and I left the Statler Hotel to be with my mother, to help her with that big property she got. And my sister liked New York so well she stayed, and she had been modeling and—and ah, she made good money and she stayed about two years, but while I was here trying to help my mother with that big twelve-family apartment house and she came back—finally she came back and then I said, “Well, I'm going to look around Binghamton and see if we can find a little place where we can start a little beauty parlor.” Of course my sister took up marcel waving, we were the first people that had that method, you know, when we came here. She took that up in New York, and of course Dorothy, too, was a manicurist and—my second sister—and so the two of them had a little training and so I found a location in a beauty parlor, I ran around Binghamton and asked different people what to do with it. Get a good place and my lawyer, my family lawyer, Mr. Polletta, told me to talk to Mr. Tyler, which was the superintendent of the Press building at the time, and I spoke to Mr. Tyler, rather, Mr. Polletta spoke to him first, and he gave me a little room that had only two chairs and two dryers and two manicuring tables—of course I had to buy my equipment in New York. They didn't have any equipment up here in Binghamton and so I had to order it there, and Mother came to New York and gave me the money for the equipment and begged me to come home with tears in her eyes, and I agreed to come home and bring the girls back home and so they, my sisters wanted to stay away because they found more opportunities, and finally, when I opened the beauty parlor and Martha and I were the first two that were working there. Susan: Can you recall any of the prices at that time? Anna: Oh yes, the manicures were 50¢ and our shampoo was 50¢ and of course the only big item, they were the highest, was the permanent wave, which I was doing, that was my specialty—I charged $6.00. I had the beauty parlor where I'd have to go to New York to the hairdressers’ show every six months, take, just take up the Eugene Wave by Mr. Eugene himself, personally gave me the instructions. That was the marcel wave, the permanent wave, they used to call it a Marcel, so then my sister Martha was Miss Martha, she was giving a marcel with an iron, you know, but I was, so we made a big hit in Binghamton, and then we outgrew the beauty parlor, it was too small for the business. It just boomed the first year that we were there. We were there only a year. I spoke to Mr. Tyler that—that I'd like to move into a larger room, and he said that Judge Parson is moving away from—he's giving up his position and he's right on a corner, he has two rooms. Then he said I could take the partition down and you could enlarge it, would be an L-shaped beauty parlor for you, but you could have as many booths as you want, so I said that would be fine, so Mr. Tyler the superintendent was very nice to me. He suggested it and I—I thought, of course, it was a good idea, so I said, “I'd appreciate it very much, I think, if you would do that, because I have two other sisters that are ready to come in with me, and we wouldn't fit in this little room we have here.” They did it in a hurry, and they did special piping for us and also drains from each booth, from the shampooing booth. We had seven shampoo booths and three manicuring tables and one barber chair—hair-cutting chair, and I have some pictures of that and, ah, we did very good business, and, and of course all my sisters were in by that time, they, all four of us—five of us, and I—I was about, I used to give six and seven permanents a day, and I got terribly run down and I got a cold one day, and I just thought, “Well, maybe I need a change, I'll go to New York, maybe I just need a change,” I thought, you know, because I had so much responsibility, so I packed my little bag and I went. My mother didn't approve, my sisters didn't, nobody approved of me going, but I said, “I'm getting away from everything, I can't take it.” I didn't realize I was sick, although my doctor kept telling me that I'm going to get sick and he threatened me that I'm going to get sick. He told his wife was a customer of mine, his daughter was my customer, and his aunt, and they all saw how hard I worked. I used to work from 8 o'clock until 10 every night and I never had time to eat my lunch, and if I did I—I had indigestion, and the doctor said before I go to lunch, to lay down for a minute before I go—he said, “If you don't be careful you're going to get TB.” Dr. Arfonse said that to me, and I said, “Ah, no,” I said, “I'm not going to get TB. I'll be all right.”  So I just packed my suitcase and I went to New York and I went to Sachs Fifth Avenue, New York, and I talked to the manager there about a job and he gave it to me. I was working there about four months, when one day I had a spell while I was on duty and, ah, there were two—four girls there, they were Russian girls there, they were from Russia, and they were only shampoo girls, they were really, they came, they were refugees from Russia here and they didn't know nothing about hair work, but the only thing they could do was wash the hair, and they saw that I looked sick and then they took me over to the clinic, it was on the ninth floor, and the doctor and the nurse said they had one room, just like a hospital, and they found that I had TB. They sent me away for a year and then I came back home cured, and I couldn't go back to the beauty parlor because there was something about the cosmetics that I would cough and I—I thought, well, I'd sit at the desk and just get the appointments, prepare the customers, and let the girls do the rest. We had thirteen girls working there by that time, colored girls, too, and we were teaching girls beauty work, and I know my uncle came here from Pittsburgh and he'd say, “I don't know why you’re teaching anybody, they're going to take business away from you,” which they did, but it—it didn't hurt us, and ah, because the business kept booming and, ah, so I, ah, was managing it from the house, and the girls would come home and tell my mother that “Anna's coughing too much,” and they were trying to keep my condition secret from my customers, nobody didn't know, so then my mother said, “Why don't you stay home, Anna, and we have a big house, a 22-room house on Court Street there, why don't you do something with this? You seem to know what to do,” so I said the only thing I could think of is start a tourist house now that I'm sick and can't work in the beauty parlor anymore for another year, the doctors say I can't go to the beauty parlor for another year until they pronounce me arrested—my case arrested. I had to go to the doctor every month to be X-rayed and questioned, and so I started the tourist business, and that business boomed, you know, and I ran that for thirteen years. And talk about, my mother got sick, gallbladder, and she, she didn't get up in time, she got this palsy, you know, so that when she got down here she needed me, so I was a nurse, I was taking care of my mother and I was running the tourist house. I used to have thirty people in my house every night during the summer, and I had to show them the rooms, go run outdoors and show them where to park the cars. I did that for thirteen years and then my mother passed away and then, you know, she passed away, and ah, then I had another breakdown after she died, with pleurisy on my bad lung, and I was in the hospital eleven weeks, and the doctor hollered at my doctor and he shook his finger at me that I'm not being fair to myself, but he pulled me through—I—I—I had a 103 temperature for eleven weeks and he called my daughter-in-law, by that time my son was married, and he told my daughter-in-law the things that that I did, but ah, by that the family wanted to sell the house, they thought it was too much for me and they all wanted to get out and on their own, they were getting married and I didn't want to sell it because I wanted a home, I wanted something, if I knew I was going to live to this age I would have fought it more, I would have kept it, but I thought, “I'm finished,” because my family gave me up so many times, then I had a second breakdown after we sold the house I had another breakdown of my lungs and I was at Chenango Bridge and I'm still here and, but I still didn't give up, I got back on my feet and started working again and, ah, I, ah, the family pressed me so hard to sell, sell, sell, that I finally gave up and I sold it. So then I wasn't welcome anyplace, I—I just didn't know what to do. What am I going to do? I—I— Susan: So what year did you come to the high rise? Anna: Well, I came to the high rise in 1968, when they just opened it. I'm here ten years, and well, well, first I—I traveled with a suitcase, I went all over, you know, and the money that I had from the property, you know, seventeen years I was doing nothing, just traveling with a suitcase, trying to make myself live someplace. I didn't know where I belonged, and ah, as for a job, they said they didn't want anybody at my age, which was around forty, and I was around forty, and ah, I, no matter what I did, I was a telephone operator, I worked on a switchboard, worked at the New York City hotel and I worked at the switchboard in the front here and I had all this experience and they didn't want to give me a job because of my age, so I said, “What am I going to do?” I just retired. Well I lived off the few hundred thousand dollars that I got for seventeen years but then the money was gone, so, I was older and I said, “What am I going to do now?” so I had another good friend at the Bennett Hotel, and he, and I told him my story and he and his wife—and he was Mr. Lamb, I guess everybody in town knows him and about my story—and he says, “Well, I can help you, all I can say is a good work for you to go on welfare,” so I said, “Yes, I will go on welfare,” but I didn't—my family and my son didn't know anything about it, that I was doing that, I was very independent, I never went to any of them for a dollar or a coin—or anything, I'm kind of independent and I was too spunky, you know, my mother and father used to say to me, “I never seen anything like you, if you make up your mind you’rer gonna do it.” I still do, but ah, so then people were very kind to me, the urban renewal people, ah, ah, Margarette, ah, ah, what's her name? She's in the office over here. I can't think of her name now, she was very kind to me and she said I was living at the Arlington, I was on welfare already and of course welfare were giving me only $85.00 a month and I had to pay $50.00 rent, so what did I have left? So I used to do—I used to help a lot of little old ladies take them someplace and they'd buy my meal and, ah, or I used to sew, I could sew. I was a dressmaker for three years and then my eyesight failed—failed me, and I managed that way, but I always meet nice people that were always very helpful to me all the time, not that I—I didn't go to them purposefully to tell them my sad story, but ah, I—I wanted to get along as best I could, so then, ah—ah, well, we were living at the Bennett, you know the place was condemned, the Bennett hotel, and we were living there. There were about twenty of us ladies living there, and ah, I couldn't make—I couldn't make ends meet so I used to take care of another sick lady, but ah, retired from Washington, from the Pentagon, and she—I used to escort her around and she used to buy my lunches for me. I used to escort her around town, and well, after that we had to move out of there. We were there, I was there about six years at the Bennett, and then the Urban Renewal moved us to the Arlington. We were supposed to be there only one year, but instead of that we figured two years waiting for this to be finished, so then, ah, they'd moved me here, they ah, Urban [Renewal] moved my furniture and they bought furniture that I have here. It's from the Arlington, they bought it for me through the welfare, I don't know who paid for it, and some of the odd pieces were given to me that I have, but ah, so I have been here ever since. Susan: Well, Anna, I think that we can close by saying that you have a very lovely attractive apartment so that you are comfortable. Anna: Well, a lot of people say that to me, but ah, when, ah, I was running the tourist house, you know, the guests used to come in and say that I had the cleanest house, that I used to have the cleanest rooms of any tourist house that they ever had, and they always came. We used to have a lot of flowers around the house. I had a lot of boxes, and I know I had a hairdresser from New York City stop and he said, he had his family with him and he said, “We went all over Binghamton and my family wanted to go in that house where all the beautiful flowers are,” so they would come in, and they would come in and they saw—I must say so, but I had the flowers, and everybody that came in that had children, they said that it was the cleanest, neatest place, and I had fifteen rooms to rent, sometimes I had thirty people in one night in the house, and I had all that laundry to take care of and I had all those beds to make myself. I was doing it myself, too, and, but then I did break down after my mother died. Susan: Well, now let's finish the story by telling the people how old you are—you've lived through a great deal. Anna: Yes, well I—I'm 87 years old now and I don't know how much longer I'm going to live, because everybody tells me I don't look my age. Susan: You don't look your age, you're a very, very attractive woman. Anna: But ah, I have this, ah, chest condition—chest pains now, and I don't know, lately it's been kind of, they've been kind of, although I have a very good doctor, he shakes his finger at me. Susan: Well, let's just hope for the best. Thank you very much for the interview, Mrs. Borsuk. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anna Borsuk Subject The topic of the resource Borsuk, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pittsburgh (Pa.); Beauty shops; Tuberculosis -- Patients -- Interviews; Single mothers -- Interviews Description An account of the resource Anna Borsuk talks about her early years, moving from Pittsburgh, PA, to Binghamton, NY, and working in hotels in NYC. She discusses opening one of the first beauty parlors in Binghamton, running a tourist house, struggles with failing health due to TB and raising her son alone. She remarks the help she received from welfare and the kindness of people working in urban renewal in her later years. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Borsuk, Anna ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-06 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:55 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/082bc68a6590dc2a5cf37818e5368a0b.mp3 d8f45daa81e327bdd2d0a3a254724a48 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jewell, Anna Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1977-12-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:48 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55951">Interview with Anna Jewell</a> Subject LCSH Jewell, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Motorcycle industry; Typists; Port Dickinson (N.Y.); S. Mills Ely; Dairy Farms; Pickle factory; Honey Bee Dairy Farm Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Collection Interview with: Mrs. Anna Jewell Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 27 December 1977 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood, interviewing Anna Jewell of 171 Robinson Street, Binghamton. The date is December 27, 1977. Mrs. Jewell, you have lived around— Anna: That was when we lived over on the other side of the river. I told you over the phone - I was just a little bit of a girl, but I remember when we went to school. We lived over there about eight years on that farm, and that was owned by—then—by E.W. Conklin. And, uh...um, my father superintended that farm. 'Course there was no Sunrise Terrace then—that was all farmland through there. And, uh, then he fell into a better job—the same kind of job—with Mr. Ely, who was a wholesale grocer. Wanda: Was that Mills Ely? Anna: S. Mills Ely. Here in Binghamton. And he owned that Honey Bee Farm—what was then the Honey Bee Farm. 'Course he's dead years ago...and we lived there - as I said, I lived there, I guess about eleven years—ten or eleven—then I got married. Ah. [clears throat] Wanda: That was quite a showplace, wasn't it? Anna: We lived in that big house up there and that—the house—there used to be a water tank there between the two houses, but I guess that's gone now. I think I didn't remember seeing it the last time I was up that way. And there was—let's see—one, two, three, four, five—five houses that belong on that farm. The big one where we lived and then the hired men, then in the—a what used to be the old pickle factory—years—'course I—it wasn't when I was up there. It was before that—ah—my father had a man—married man living in there—a hired man and he lived in one end of that. The other end was the creamery where they made—they made the first pasteurized milk that was ever sold in Binghamton. And—um—I think he sold it for something like ten cents a quart and people thought that was terrible—(laughter)—imagine buying a quart of milk today for ten cents.  Wanda: That was in the building down over the hill there that's gone, wasn't it? Anna: That was what? Wanda: That was in that building that was down over the edge of the hill? Anna: Yes—yes—that used to be—the end toward Chenango Street used to be a pickle factory. Wanda: Oh. Anna: They made pickles there, in fact there was some there when we first moved there—big vats of them—and uh—but it wasn't running when we moved there. And he had a man that did the creamery work. Made—churned butter and pasteurized the milk and bottled it and everything like that—milk and cream. And they ran two milk wagons and they had a lot of customers in Binghamton that bought it. They used to sell mostly to the lawyers and doctors and professional men. And uh—oh they used to think it was a terrible price—ten cents a quart. Wanda: Delivered. Anna: An awful price. Wanda: How long did you live there? Anna: My folks lived there—um—lemme see—gee I don’t remember—oh my father bought a—he lived there in a—oh I can't tell you the year now—and uh he went down to what was then called Union—it's West Endicott today—and bought a farm. And he didn't know anything but farming. He farmed it all his life. Come from a family of farmers. He had four brothers and they were all farmers. And uh—good ones, too, I might add. Wanda: They must have been. Anna: And uh well, he used to help in the creamery some himself but they had all kinds of machinery there to—in those days you know it was really quite something ya know, ‘cause you didn’t find that very many places.  Wanda: The machinery, you mean? Anna: Yeah, to bottle the milk and all of that. Oh, I don't know as there's anything else of any great interest. This Mr. Ely—they used to be a tower up on uh, I think they called it Mount Prospect in those days. You know the big tall tower up there that he owned. It was—they called it Ely tower and now they have converted it into a—places to rent—they have apartments and I guess maybe some people have bought places there but it was quite a job to get up there. I have a granddaughter that's living there—she just moved there a few months ago and she likes it. Wanda: That's what became Ely Park later? Anna: Yes. That was—it's called Ely Park now—her address is—ah—apartment something or other, Ely Park—Ely Park Apartments and uh I think the government owns some of them. I just don't understand about it but uh—I know she did live over at Chenango Bridge and she had quite a nice apartment there but she had to move because—the man wouldn’t do anything. He kept raising the rent, he wouldn't do anything and uh the toilet was 'bout ready to go through the floor and the water leaked and oh my she had an awful time, so she got a place up there. Wanda: Well this Mr. Ely was quite an influential man in Binghamton at that time, wasn't he? Didn't he own lots of— Anna: He had a big wholesale store—groceries. He was a wholesaler in addition to owning this farm and I guess—he lived on Henry Street. I don't know whether he owned any property in Binghamton or not. I never did know about that, but my father liked him very much. He was awful good to him. Wanda: What was it like growing up on a farm when you were a little girl? What did you have to do? Anna: Well, I didn’t know anything else then. I wouldn't want to go back to it today but—uh—I liked it. When we lived on the other side of the river I was just a little bit of a kid. I was only two and a half when my people come here and of course I—later on when I got old enough to go to school I went to Oak Street School. The kids today, ya know, think they're killed if they can’t—can't have a bus to ride on. If they have to go half a mile or so they have to get on a bus, but— Wanda: How did you get to school? Anna: I walked it. Wanda: To Oak Street? Anna: Except when it was stormy and bad weather my father would take me because—uh—and you spoke about that hotel on the corner of Prospect Street. It's still there as far as I know but it's a gas station today. But in those days it was a—a—a saloon. And uh—I used to be scared to death to go by there when I was afoot and alone, 'cause I was the only one—well they was a boy that lived about a half mile below me that used to go to school, but uh—he didn't very often go with me. Once in a while he would, but uh—most of the time I walked it and I remember one night I was goin' home and I always was delighted to get by that place because if there was anything that I was deathly afraid of it was a drunken man. And this one night—that's the only time I ever knew it to happen—he came out and uh—he saw me coming and he started for me and I—didn't know a soul there, not—well I did when I got up a little farther—I knew a couple of people then, but I thought if I'd just make that house up there I'll run in there until he gets out of sight but he saw me go the other way and he was so drunk he couldn't hardly stand up, so he didn't bother me at all. But you know when they're drunk like that you never know what they will do and uh I thought now if I can just get up to that house I knew the people that lived there. My uncle and aunt lived there in one side of it and uh—two elderly ladies lived in the other part but—uh finally I guess he decided he'd go on and wouldn't molest me. So I waited 'til he got pretty near out of sight and then I started home. I had another half mile to go. Wanda: Boy that's scary. Anna: I don't know what ever become of him but I didn't see any more of him. Wanda: Remember that pond that was Cutler's Pond? That was part of the Conklin farm, wasn't it? Anna: What— Wanda: The pond that became Cutler's Pond? Anna: Oh Cutler's—that was on the Cutler property. Wanda: Oh that wasn't part of your farm? Anna: That was just above where we lived there—the next farm. Yes, I used to a—I think it was John Cutler that lived up there. Ah—and he had a brother that lived across the street and um kids used to skate on that pond. ‘Course I was never allowed to skate. My mother was afraid the ice would break and I'd drown. She almost drowned when she was a little young girl and she was—never—she would never let my sister or I swim or skate or be around the water at all. So—we never knew what those pleasures were. I used to love to watch other people do it. Wanda: Then—a—you finished your schooling at Oak Street, did you? Anna: I went to Oak Street fo—’til I was in the fifth grade I think about—well they didn't have any kindergarten in those days, you know. It was calls the first grade when you started. I was probably six when I started because I was sick a lot when I was a little youngster and I think I was around six when I was there. And they called it the baby class—no kindergarten—baby class—and uh—I think I can remember the teacher I had—I think her name was—what was her name? What was it? But a—the Principal of the school, her name was Morey and they were—she was very very—she was a stickler to have everybody vaccinated in the school and my father would not have my sister or I vaccinated. He just, I don't know why, but he just wouldn't have it. So she came in about once a—every week or two—wanted to know if I'd been vaccinated. I said, “I've told ya every time you've been in here that I'm not vaccinated and I probably won't be,” but she'd still come and ask me. Wanda: Did you ever get vaccinated? Anna: Oh yes, yes, when I got to be a teenager. Then my sister and I both—oh and did mine work—oh I had the sorest arm and I was sicker'n a dog, but it sure did work, but 'course that was—I was all through at Oak Street then. I was probably about 13 or 14 and I was living in Port Dick and uh going to Port Dick School. Wanda: Where was the school then in Port Dick? Anna: Up on a—I believe it was River Street. You know I don't know how long you've been— Wanda: Toward the mill? Anna: Down toward the Mill Street—that way? Anna: Yeah. Yeah. The first street this side of the mill. The other side from here—is called Grant. And uh—the school was just about at the head of that street—off to that direction—school was at that time and uh—it was just two rooms was all there was of the school—one big room and a smaller room where the primary children went but of course I went into the fifth or sixth grade when I got up there because I'd already done—I would think I was in the fifth grade when I left Oak Street and went there. Wanda: Do you remember what you studied then? Anna: In Port Dick? History—physiology—they call it “hygiene” today but in those days it was physiology and I hated it. English—arithmetic ah—ah—that was about it, I guess. I don't remember anything else. I love arithmetic. I was never any good in it but I loved it—oh it was my favorite subject, but I hated physiology. I hated history. Oh geography—yes I loved that. I was always good in geography. Geography and English were—and spelling—were my best subjects. I could spell anything. Still can. (chuckles). Wanda: Good for you. Anna: I think it's worth quite a bit to be a good speller. A lot of people are smart otherwise but can't spell. Anna: That's true. So you got married when you were living in Port Dick? Anna: I was about—oh past twenty-one when I got married and my people still live up there in Port Dick and uh—we got married and lived—we went to housekeeping up on what is now Blanchard Avenue above here. It was called Fremont in those days. That's seventy-some years ago. Wanda: Were there many houses around there then? Anna: Not near as many as there are now. There was—that big house on the corner was there. And there was a—three or four on the side. We lived on the side toward town but they've built up an awful lot since we were here. That—we only lived there about three months. We didn't like it—so we got an—you could get an apartment in those days. But today you can't hardly find one, but we heard of this one on Green Street. We moved down there and we lived there 3 years and probably would have lived there a lot longer, but the man that owned it wanted the rooms for his son. And uh—he waited ‘til I got my housecleaning all done (laugh) and then he come over and told me one day he wanted me—he wanted to—he would like to have the rooms. I said, "Thanks a lot. That’s very nice of you." (laughter). Oh I never—I never was so provoked with anybody in my life. He knew I had cleaned that house. We had a garden too—we had a garden growing. We had that partly planted. And uh—then we moved over on Sturges Street. Wanda: What did your husband do then? Anna: Hmm? Wanda: What did your husband do when you were married? Anna: He worked in a—let me see—when we were married he worked to Babcock’s then late in years he went in business for himself—motor—outboard motor business. He had a store and uh—had a store up here on Chenango Street for a long time and they outgrew that and they moved over up here on Upper Court and that's where they were when he died in ‘61. Wanda: He was connected with Babcock's for many years, wasn't he? I think Al told that. Anna: Yes quite a few—I can't tell you just how many now. I don't remember, but he worked there quite a while before we were married. And then after we were married he was there quite a while—probably seven, eight, nine years something like that—I guess—before he went in business for himself. Oh—he sold motorcycles first. He went in a—had a motorcycle store in State Street right across from the old Bennett Hotel and 'course they kinda went out, you know—not so many people were riding them. Then he got into this motor and boat business. He did pretty good with that—sold Johnson motors and boats. Wanda: Do you remember the old motorcycles? Did you ride with him? Anna: There was a man—a guy by the name of Carver that sold another type of motorcycle and if he could knife my husband he'd do it, every time. He'd get around people, you know, and tell them just how much better his machine was and oh he was—he'd even lie to sell something. He was that type. And then he got in the boat and motor business and there was another guy did the same thing to him. They seemed to be after him for some reason. But he did pretty good with that. Oh I don't know—we lived in several different places before we finally bought a place on Judson Street and we lived there forty, forty-one, let's see—we moved there in, ah, ‘21. In 1921 we moved there and I left there a year after my husband died and he died in ‘61 and I stayed 'til the following July in ‘62. And then I went up on Bevier Street and my, ah, this son—and—uh—three—three of his children. Wanda: Well let's see what can we—uh oh I was wondering if you would ah—if you can remember contrasts about keeping house and keeping your—cooking and doing your household duties. What was it like? Anna: Well I kept it just like anybody else would, I guess. Wanda: What did you have to work with when you were young? Anna: Oh you mean machinery? Not much of anything at first. Ah—'course that was—ah—when I was first married, we never heard of electric cleaners, you know, we didn't have such things. But I finally had one of those—wore one out and got another one. And uh I guess that's about it. I never had anything like an electric dishwasher or…I washed my dishes by hand all my life and still am. Ah—I can't think of anything else. I got tired of sweeping—oh I swept with a broom a good many years, before I got a sweeper. We didn't have too much money, you know. And I had to go kinda easy. But soon's we could afford it we got a cleaner. In fact I had two or three. I'd wear one out 'n’ have to get another one. Wanda: How many children did you have? Anna: Just two. Two boys. The one that lives in Florida and this one here. Wanda: Well I imagine Binghamton has changed quite bit since you used to shop downtown—I say I imagine Binghamton's changed quite a bit downtown? Anna: Oh yes. You know I don't know where I am—I haven't been down—I couldn't tell you when I've been downtown. I can't remember. But anytime I have been down I didn't know where I was. It's all so different where the Arena is there and the Marine Midland Bank and all those buildings. It looks so different some way to me. It don't look natural. And I s’pose when they get this—uh—mall—if they ever do—it'll look very different then than what it does now. I think it'd be a fine thing. Just because I'm old I can't have a—I try to keep up with the times. I don't let my brain wither away. (laughter).  Wanda: Good. good. You don't live in the past, do you? Anna: No. No. What good does it do to live in the past? The past is gone. I have very pleasant memories, but a, other than that I—I had a very good husband. He was always very good to me. They wasn't anything he wouldn't get for me, and trouble with him he couldn't always afford it. (chuckle). We had to do without. Wanda: Well that doesn't hurt sometimes, does it? Anna: His people lived up at Chenango Bridge. Wanda: Now that was the Jewell that lived in the old Macomber house, right? Anna: No. Brick. The old brick house that used to be up there. I don't know how long you've lived up around there, but— Wanda: All my life. Anna: Oh, have you? Wanda: Most of it, yeah. Anna: Well do you remember the brick house then just this side the railroad bridges there? Wanda: Oh yes yes. Anna: That's where they lived. Wanda: Oh yes. Anna: They used to come down 'n’ get my older son, he was their first grandchild and did they worship him. Oh boy he could do no harm now I'm telling you. But this one they never—well his grandfather died when he was only—he don't even remember him. He say he can faintly remember him, but I doubt that he would—just a little past two when he died but the other boy was three years older and he of course remembers him. And uh—his grandfather used to come down and get him, take him up there. He was the only grandchild they had, the first and only, and boy you think they didn't worship and adore him. And he was so good—he was an awful good kid so—ah—he used to have—used to drive a wagon. They called it “Pickle Wagon.” I don't know where they ever got that name for it, but the seat was high and he'd get that little fella, he was about three at the time. I didn't—I didn't like to have him come up and go up there but—uh—his grandfather and grandmother wanted him—so I couldn’t be mean, you know. I'd let him go. So they'd be driving out the street and he was such a little fellow and my father-in-law was big—he weighed 280-some pounds before he was sick, and you can imagine, and the seat was high like this, you know, and that little fellow sittin' beside him—now if that wasn't a picture. Wanda: What was your maiden name? Anna: Haney, H-A-N-E-Y. That—you don't hear it very often. I guess there's one or two here in town, I don't know whether they're related, if they are I don't know, very distantly. My relatives all lived in Pennsylvania. 'Course I don't have many left anymore. I've got two cousins that live up in Elizabeth Church Manor. I've got another cousin that lives on the south side—on Park Ave—and I've got one in Vestal and one in Ithaca and that's the extent of my relatives. So I'm glad I've got a big family. Wanda: Yes, it's a blessing. Anna: That kind of keeps me going, ya know, I'd probably if I didn't have anybody like that around I'd probably just lay down and die. (laughs). Wanda: They keep you sharp, don't they? Anna: Oh—I love to have them come. And those kids are such good kids—awful good kids.That little Chrissy is something. Boy am I crazy about him. He talks to me over the phone once in a while. Wanda: He talks like an old man. Anna: And Allan, if Allan’s home, and if he isn't Sandy usually gets him, and the last time I called up I think I talked to Allan and he said, “Wait a minute, Gram,” he said, “You wanna talk to Chrissy?”  I said, “I'd love to.”  So he came to the phone and he said ah, “Hello Grandma.”  I said, “Hi, Chrissy,How are you?' “Fine.” So just before he left the phone he said, “I love you,Grandma.” I said, “Well that's nice to know. I love you, too.” (chuckle). I think his father put him up to it. (laughter). Wanda: He's so smart. Anna: Aw he's a cute little thing. Wanda: Did you ever work before you were married? Anna: Hmm? Wanda: Did you ever work before you were married? Anna: Yes—I worked in a—oh I worked in Barrett Brothers’ music store for about 2 or 3 years and every winter I worked in the City Treasurer's office in getting out the tax bills. Typing them. I worked there fourteen years. Just a couple of weeks in the wintertime when the—January, you know. Coldest part of the year of course, always. Wanda: That was where? In the courthouse? Anna: That was about it, I guess. Oh, I worked in the church office up here. I'm a member of the North Presbyterian Church and I worked there in the office about 8 years, I think. Just afternoons, but that was it. And—my father and mother came and lived with us after—oh—after we bought the place on Judson Street. So of course I had a place to leave my two boys. But they were quite a good size by that time. And a—I'd go down and take—the minister lived on the same street—he lived there on Judson Street and I'd stop in there and take dictation and then I'd go down and get out the letters or whatever he had for me to do. Wanda: Well you were a secretary then? Where did you learn to do that? Anna: Oh, I took a course in Lowell Business School years ago. Wanda: Oh. Anna: When I was about eighteen, I guess I was then. And that's a long time ago. Wanda: That's something that's changed a lot over the years, isn't it? Anna: Oh yes, 'course there's none of them alive that was in there then. Mr.—the Bloomer—Mr. Bloomer was the Principal or whatever you call him. And a—his daughter was one of the teachers—and seems to me he had a son that was in it too in some—he had quite a family. He had two or three daughters and a couple or three sons. Five or six children he had. They're all dead and gone, I guess. Wanda: What kind of typewriters did you have then? Anna: Remington. Wanda: Big—tall things? Anna: Yeah. Remington mostly. That's what they had mostly there in the school. And—um—I think maybe a few Royals and—a—what's that other one? Ah—it begins with “S”—can't think of the name of it now. That's an old make. They had some of those but I never—I always worked on a Remington because I was—they were easier to operate and I got used to them and I liked them. Wanda: Did you do—a—bookkeeping? Or anything else? Anna: No, I never had any bookkeeping. I just did the—I took shorthand and typing, was all I took. I was always kinda sorry I didn't take bookkeeping because in those days you could get a better job. I mean more money if you could do both, but I never took it up. Wanda: Do you remember how much you worked for in those days? Anna: How much what? Wanda: How much your pay was, the week or a month. Anna: I think in Barrett's—I think it was—ah, something like twelve dollars a week. And—a—when I was at the church—ah—I was paid by the hour. I don't remember what I got there. Wanda: But that was a pretty good wage for a woman, wasn't it—then? Anna: Well it was—nothing today. It'd be nothing today—you couldn't even live on it and when I—when I typed tax bills ah—'course I never was the speediest of them, but I tried to be accurate and not make too many mistakes, because that's really what counts in that business, y'know. Those tax bills have to be absolutely all right. And mine were. I made very few mistakes because they put me in Checking. The last two or three years I was there. They have—all have to be checked to make sure they're absolutely correct 'fore they're ever mailed out. ‘Course now they have—a—machines, I guess that—uh—put them out. They don't have the extra help anymore. Wanda: Was that—did you work in the old courthouse then? Anna: No, I worked at City Hall up—ah—up on the second floor it was. Yeah. Oh I loved it there. I used to look forward to that—just like a party to me. Got me out, ya know, and away from home and I'd go to lunch with the girls and—which I couldn't do when I was home. And it was a change 'n’ I really looked forward to it every year. The only part I didn't like was getting out so early in the morning and waitin' around for streetcars. I've forgot what year I went there. I had a niece that worked there, and she had a steady job there. She worked there quite some time. But I think I was there before she was. I think I—I had a friend that had charge of the typists and the checking and all that kind of work and so she got—uh—put in a good word for me and I got in there. I worked there fourteen years so I guess my work was all right. Wanda: I guess so. Anna: 'Bout two or three weeks every winter. Coldest part of the winter—in January—uh—no it was in December 'cause they had to get their taxes out by the first of January, you see. Wanda: And that was the County tax office? Anna: No, the City. It was all City. Then—uh—I think the last couple years I was there I checked. So that give me a little longer job. I was there an extra week or so in that. They put me in that. I love typing. I just used to love it. I couldn't—I'd—today I'd have to do what they call the hunt and peck system. (laughter). Hy son's got a typewriter here and—I—well, haven't tried it but I know I wouldn't have any speed. I haven't touched a typewriter in years. Wanda: Well, if you were accurate once you probably would still be just as accurate. Anna: Well I couldn't do any other way. I can't do anything slipshod when I know figures, ya know, have to be accurate. Tax bills had to be right to the penny. And—uh—filing—I did filing too. And if you think that isn't something—the First Ward over there on Clinton Street, names this long, ohhh—what names—terrible—and they've got to be alphabetically filed and let me tell you, you've got to stop to study—you've got to know your alphabet good. (laughs). Oh I used to love—I used to love it down there. I hated to—I hated to see the time come when I was through and didn't have any more work ’til next year. It would only be about two or three weeks. Well, when I checked and filed and did that I had more work to do. I was there maybe a week or two longer then, but just typing—we were all through in a couple of weeks. 'Course they'd have about—probably eight girls typing all the same time, and let me tell you it was something to hear those typewriters all buzzing around there. Wanda: Then your work at the music store was secretarial stuff too—writing letters and that? Anna: Well I guess that was what you'd call it. The church work was more on that order. And they got out a letter every once a month. They used to have a big men's class up there. They had about a hundred members in those days. That’s back in the twenties—and uh—I had all those letters to mail out. I got the—oh they had a mimeograph—so it wasn't so bad to get the letters out, 'cause I'd put them right through that in no time. But I had the envelope to address and that took quite a while. But I liked it—I—was very happy with it, I worked for two different ministers. The one man left or got another charge somewhere else, or didn't he retire? I've forgotten which now. Then this other younger man came, I worked for him a while too. Wanda: Did you help with your husband's business too? Anna: Yes. I used to write letters for him, but at home—I had one of those little folding typewriters at home he bought me, and uh—I used to write his letters quite often for him. Wanda: Well you were quite a career girl, weren't you? Anna: Well I don't know as you'd call me a career girl. We moved around a lot until we bought that place on Judson Street. We were married in 1908 and we didn't buy that place till ‘21. And in those thirteen years I wanna tell you, we moved a few times. Oh my—I never got so sick and tired of moving in my life. We lived on—well as I told you—started on Fremont Ave., Green Street, and then Sturges, and Ogden. Then we moved on Chenango Street. My uncle bought a two-family house up there on Chenango Street and we lived downstairs there when my boys were small. And uh—let's see, I don't know where else we lived—oh Moffitt Ave., two years. Oh my—I tell you I was glad to get a place where I could stay and I stayed there 41 years on Judson Street. And I probably would still a’ been there, but they took the street, you know, and put an overhead through there. And why they took that street I'll never know, because Sturges Street is a much older street. The houses on that street are all—almost all old. Cary Street is old. But no, they had to take Judson. Wanda: So you had to sell then? Anna: Hmmm? Wanda: Is that why you had to sell your house? Anna: Did I what? Wanda: You had to sell your house because of the road? Anna: Ahm—they took the—they take you for your property. The State. Or whoever put the road through, or overhead. But ah—I said I don't know why they had to go through this street. Oh dear I hated to leave there. After you live in a place forty years, ya know, it begins to seem like home. That's the longest I ever lived anywhere. Went right straight through from 1921 to 1962, and that's 41 years. Oh I loved it and I knew everybody there and they's lovely people. I— awful nice ones—over here you—I don't know a living human being to speak to except my landlady on the other side. There’s nobody around here. They don't neighbor—this is a bridal shop on this side—a dentist across the street—church on this corner 'n’ the chicken house and the shoe repair shop down here. Now there's nothing around here, it's really a business section and I said to somebody not long ago, I said, “I never lived in a place where I just couldn't neighbor with people and didn't know anybody, as this place.” There used to be a lady that lived next door here that was very friendly—very nice—but she got—uh—I think she developed arthritis or something and doctor told her she'd have to go where she didn’t have to go up and down stairs. But she had the duplex—she's on the second floor over here. But she lived there. Now—now they rent the two top floors. There’s two floors up there. And uh—the downstairs is all the wedding shop. I guess they cater more to bridal gowns than anything. Wanda: How old are you now, Mrs. Jewell? Anna: How? Wanda: How old are you now? Anna: How old am I? I was 91 last October. Wanda: Yeah? Well you've had quite a life so far, haven't you? Anna: Oh I—well I—I can't tell. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anna Jewell Subject The topic of the resource Jewell, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Motorcycle industry; Typists; Port Dickinson (N.Y.); S. Mills Ely; Dairy Farms; Pickle factory; Honey Bee Dairy Farm Description An account of the resource Anna Jewell discusses her childhood living on the Honey Bee Dairy Farm owned by S. Mills Ely in Port Dickinson. This farm also was the site of a pickle factory. She talks about her local education, getting married, her husband's business selling motorcycles, the homes they lived in and taking care of them, her grandchildren and her jobs. She describes working as a typist for the City of Binghamton Treasurer's Office assisting with typing tax bills and later as a secretary at the North Presbyterian Church for several years. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 35 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jewell, Anna ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-27 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:48 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f22785769b9e8e1d7e6184e4684d09da.mp3 575777f9ad8e5f3d5542a5ecef88f30a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kern, Anna; Jennings, Marguerite Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-01-19 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:34 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55960">Interview with Anna Kern and Marguerite Jennings</a> Subject LCSH Kern, Anna -- Interviews; Jennings, Marguerite -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); World War, 1914-1918; Teachers -- Interviews Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Miss Anna Kern and Miss Marguerite Jennings Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 19 January 1978 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with two retired school teachers, Miss Anna Kern and Miss Marguerite Jennings, who live at 386 Main St., Johnson City, NY. The date is January 19, 1978. Miss Kern, could you tell us a little something about where you were born, what your parents did, about your early beginnings and things like that? Anna: Well I was born in 1893 in Herkimer, it was a village fifteen miles east of Utica in the Mohawk Valley and as—as I grew up—uh um—I don’t know what to say uh—my father was a doctor and in those days of course there were no automobiles. We had to go by carriage in the summertime and sleigh in the wintertime and the sleigh was an open vehicle and temperatures used to get much lower and we used to have much more snow than they do now, even this storm would have been a simple storm at home in those days because as we'd sit in the window and look out we couldn’t see people walking by on the street because the snow had been piled up so high from shoveling and we could see the ears of a horse going by but you couldn't see the cutter and of course they went on top of the snow and at one time Father had to go up into the country. It was ah about 18 below zero. He always—and he wore what they call a Russian vest, which was a padded vest but this one night because it was so cold Mother put newspapers under the Russian vest and a then put on his coat and his overcoat and he had a little charcoal stove in the foot of the—a little charcoal heater under his feet and of course just an open cutter and he had to have his hands be—he had a big heavy fur robe and he had his heavy fur gloves but he had 8 miles to drive that night. And one time, this was several years later, when his driver was ill for the winter and Mother had to go with him in the morning and then my job was to come home after school to go with him when he made the rest of his calls after his afternoon office hours—and this one—in Saturday morning I always had to help him and that morning I frosted my left hand so that I've always had trouble—it would get cold and turn white ever since then and I guess that's enough about our winters. I grew up in a normal school and we had outdoor—we were very much interested in all outdoor activities, skating, coasting. As we grew older there was a—one of the boys had a bobsled that held ten people and we would go after school. There was one particular hill, it was a mile long. We just couldn't start at the top because we would get going so fast that we couldn't make the curves and a couple of times we spilled but we could only go once after school. But we would go out after supper and we had to have a chaperone with us and one of the teachers in school, she was a peach and she didn't know how to teach very well but she was such a good sport. She went with us every evening and one time the bob overturned and her face scraped along on the ice but she came to school the next day with burns on the side of her face, her face all scratched but the next time we asked her to go, she was ready, she went with us just the same. I graduated from high school in 1910 and I wanted to go to kindergarten training school which was in town. My sister had gone to Pratt Institute in Brooklyn and a—Father said yes, I could go there if I would go somewhere else afterwards and of course—courses were all two years. In the normal schools, any of the schools were only two years and I promised, thinking that he'd forget it, but he didn't, so after I had been in two years they arranged for me to go to school in Syracuse. Ah—there were very few ah kindergarten, purely kindergarten training, as far as I know there were only two—one in Boston and one in New York. In the normal schools they taught kindergarten along with the grade schools and but—this a school where I wanted to go, they had a kindergarten course, so I spent my two years there in Herkimer and a—Syracuse at that time was training their own kindergarten teachers and the principal of the school was a friend of Mother’s so that they thought that that would be a good place for me to go. Father didn't forget that I was to go away somewhere so they arranged for me to go to Syracuse and I was there—a—from the first of September to the middle of October and I was asked if I would take a class. Well, I was home at the time for my brother’s wedding and of course he told me there and Father said no, I had to continue my schooling. So, when I went back to Syracuse the principal talked for a half an hour just steadily telling me I was wasting my own time and my father’s money so I called him on the phone and he said, well, he'd leave it up to me. I could take it, so, that’s how I happened to come to Lestershire. I was—a—that was Columbus Day and the principal—well the principal came up to school to interview me first and that was Professor Smith, he was the principal—the Superintendent of the school and I came down here the 12th on the train from a Syracuse—from Utica, and Marguerite, who was teaching here two years ahead of me, had come down on the Syracuse train. Well Professor Smith told me at the time that he had made arrangements for me to sleep that night at a boarding house and then I could look for a room the next day. So my train got in five minutes ahead of Marguerite's. Professor Smith met me and we came down on the trolley car and stopped. He took me down to the house on the next corner and a I—when Marguerite came in, the landlady told her I was going to sleep with her that night but she didn't think much of that arrangement, so we weren't very good friends for a while, but uh the next day I did go and look for a room and stayed there two years and before I went to another room, of course this was Lestershire, that I came to. Susan: How much did you say you paid for your room at the time? Anna: I, my salary was $425 per year but I didn't earn quite that much because I didn't come until the middle of October and that was deleted from the salary and they had increments of $25 a year. The second year that I was here I gained my $25, but Marguerite was given an extra $25 because she was only a $25 ahead of me and she should have been $50 ahead of me in salary and a— I remember when we first came to Lestershire the pavement went from just down to the E-J shoe store and a out here in front between street, Charles Street, Baldwin Street all along through there it was just a mud hole and the road was very narrow through this section right here. They had to fill in before they could pave it. It was a hollow. I started in what they call the old Hudson Street School. Later it was named the Franklin Smith School, named after the Superintendent, and I stayed there until ‘25 and then in ‘25 I went over to the Harry L. School on the north side of town and I taught there, well I taught altogether 41 years and—ah—talk about salaries, at the end of 41 years I got $4,600 and now the starting salary is about $8,000 so you get that difference in just these few years since I retired. I retired in 1954 and I did some substituted in kindergarten and also in the grades in all of the schools at one time or another and—Is there anything in particular that you want me to talk about? Susan: Well, why don't you mention the ethnic background of the children that you first taught? Anna: Oh yes, well when I went to the Harry L. School, that was not in the Johnson City limits. When that school was built it was in the Town of Union, but the people—E-J was just beginning to build, ah, opening up streets up the hill, back of the school, and well, to go back 2 years there was a need for a kindergarten and a first grade over in that section so a little building was rented. I think it was a little chapel of some kind. They rented that for the week and had a kindergarten and a first grade there for the two years while they were building the school. It was an eight room school at the beginning and two years later they put on a twelve room addition and then of course still later I don't remember just, let’s see, it must have been in 1952 or ‘53 they put on this last big addition and that’s the way that section grew. I don't remember just when they went into the ah Johnson City—when the limits of Johnson City were extended. When I first went there, there were no sidewalks or anything you had to plow through the snow and through the mud and ah well—  Susan: The point— Anna: There were in the school—we had a ah—there were Russians, Polish, Czechoslovakian, ah, no Italian happened to move in at that time, I don't know whether or not they did later on, but at that time it was mostly the Slavic, Czech people and very, very nice families, very nice people, anxious to get along and so interested in their children. And I remember one time, of course we didn't have PTA meetings at the beginnings, it was organized after I had been teaching quite a few years, but there was a PTA established soon after the school was built, the Harry L. School was built, and Miss Clark announced at one time they were beginning to have trouble in the Binghamton schools with the children, and she made the remark one time that the schools in Johnson City, there was the least trouble in that school because the parents disciplined their children and there were other children—sometimes the children were brought in in the middle of the year right from the boat, a couldn't speak English and sit down in a chair and—a—the majority of them were ready to go into the first grade along with the rest of the children. They learned English very quickly, learned the customs very quickly, and I had the least trouble with discipline with those children that had come from the old country. Very seldom did we—did I have any trouble in kindergarten. I don't know about any of the other grades but a they were lovely children, lovely families. I used to like to go to visit, we had to make calls on—all of the homes of all of the children. We had in class every year and of course I had two classes so that meant quite a bit of walking and—a—climbing the hills. I used to love to go at Easter and Christmas time because I always had such delicious kolaches and different cookies to be treated. And—a—some of course—some of the homes the mother couldn't speak English. The children hesitated about—a—what is the word I want?—interpreting, I couldn't think of the word—they were hesitant about it. They didn't seem to want to show that they could speak the foreign language. They wanted to show they could speak English. Susan: Now it's an advantage these days, the more languages that you know. Now it’s an advantage. Anna: Oh yes, of course it is and I know at school we try to impress upon the children that it would be very, very valuable for them to keep up with their original language and I think that some of the older children have found that out but I—the smaller children I was dealing with, they didn't want to speak their native language. Well uh um—Any more questions? Susan: Well,you might want to mention some of the things you did during the War. Anna: Oh yes, of course, I was here at the time of the First World War and we started knitting before the United States went into the War. We were helping sending things over to Britain—a—knitting scarves and sweaters and things of that sort and then a so Mrs. Harry L. Johnson a started a, and Miss Jeanette Johnson also worked in it later, started what they call the gauze class and they made dressings to be used in the War, this was after we had gotten in the War, and that met once a week over in the third floor of the fire station and they had a very, very big class, lots of people from the factories and married people at home. They were women, the Red Cross had charge of it but Mrs.—the Johnsons were the ones that started the class and then a—one thing during the War, the Johnsons wanted to have their people that were here have some activity, so they used to have noted—a—dance bands and orchestras come, they had different entertainers, singers, and I remember there was one man who played the accordion beautifully. We didn't know anything about him at the time, but he turned out to be a quite a noted artist. I can't remember his name and a— Susan: Do you remember some of the things he did? Anna: I know they had a dance once a week up there in this hall. Susan: You’re talking about the pavilion, the George F. Pavilion? Anna: No, no, the fire station, the third floor of the fire station. No, the pavilion wasn't built, that wasn't built for a long time afterwards, and I can't remember the year that they changed the name to Johnson City but I know there was a big parade and all the people in Johnson City—a—besides working in the gauze class and the knitting—a—we met the trains as the—a— Susan: —the troops came through. Anna: —a—the trains that carry the soldiers, I can't think, that’s what they call it. As they came through they would stop here in Binghamton and we would take candy, cigarettes and things of that sort to them and the boys going through and then they'd leave off letters for us to mail and—a—we worked on the bond drive. They had several bonds, a E bonds that people worked on several bond drives with big parades and the Endicott Johnson people turned out very well. IBM workers in IBM also paraded and the time that the War ended there was a big parade and a great, great celebration, that was the first World War. We didn't do too much in the Second World War then, didn't seem to be the need of it. But uh— Susan: I think that you wanted to bring out good manners. Anna: Oh. Susan: About the children. Anna: About the children, well, that was one thing in kindergarten, if I could teach the children to get them to realize—a to share was one of the things, and to respect the rights of the other children, they could do what they pleased as long as it didn't interfere with the other children doing what they wanted to do, and if I could get that across I felt that I had been successful with the children, and of course there were many things that we did have to teach, words and sounds a a help quite a lot for the first grade. In fact I had to do more than Marguerite had to do for her 1st grade. The teachers asked us to teach the vowels learning these different words. Marguerite: We had to teach vowels. Anna: Yes, vowels. The sound of vowels.  Marguerite: The sound of vowels. Right and a we had to put in a new reading system.  Anna: Oh yeah of course when kindergarten first started—a—each child they were all doing the same things together and it wasn't for several years that we began letting—a—the children choose what they would like to do. That came several years later. Very formal at the beginning, what they call the Froebelian Method. I don't think that anybody now days would even know who Froebel was, but he was a German educator and the one who originated the kindergarten idea, and that was the training we received, the Froebelian method, when we were going to school. Marguerite received the same thing. And I think discipline of the children is so much harder now than it was then. Once in a while there would be a child that needed a little extra help but most of them—as I look back I had very little trouble with discipline in the class. Of course a few weeks if some child got too obstreperous, why trying different ways to get him to settle down, and the child and the children learned there were certain things they could do, certain things they could not do. We didn't have too much trouble like that. But uh—can you think of anything else? Susan: Well, how about you, Miss Jennings? Marguerite: I can't add anything that she has added. Anna: You could start with where you were born. Marguerite: Oh I don't feel like it, Ann. Susan: Well, I think it would be interesting for these people to know how long you two have been together. Anna: Oh well, uh—this was back in 1913 uh—as I said I slept with her the first night and we didn't think too much of it at that time but we became friends and the second year she got a room in the same house where I was and then the third year we moved down on Main Street across from St. James Church, and we lived there for 30 years and before we came here to this apartment, we came here. Susan: And now if you ladies wouldn't mind giving your ages? Anna: No, Marguerite is 88 and I'm going to be 85 in a couple of weeks. Susan: You're two remarkable ladies, I can tell you. Anna: Marguerite was born in Homer. I was just a little bit— Marguerite: I was born in Cortland and later moved to Homer. Anna: Her father, I just don't know what his title would be, he does beautiful, beautiful iron filigree work. Marguerite: He was a blacksmith but he didn't— Susan: An artistic blacksmith. Marguerite: Yes ah he just worked on very expensive wagons, and if you ever drive through Homer, right near the end of the walk, you come from the Congregational Church, you look up and you'll see a iron and that is a showing of the oh wagon—western wagon. Anna: That's all iron filigree. Marguerite: And he cut every bit of that out. He was excellent in cutting out iron. Anna: He did beautiful work. Marguerite: If you go through you want to look up at it. It's a big, big picture iron. Anna: She went to Cortland Normal for a few years and then came directly here. We both started teaching. Marguerite: We both took classes. Anna: And oh yes all through—all through our teaching. Susan: You updated your education. Marguerite: Yeah. We read the magazines, which were not cheap then either. We had very, very large classes. Now one class I had at Roosevelt, I think it was 45 in one class and 35 in the other class, and you had the two classes in one day.  Anna: And one time before I went over to the Harry L. School, I had 34 children in one class and 43 in the other and we didn't have enough equipment for the 43 to be in one class, so they divided it. I had to have three classes for a, a short time but finally they did get a teacher to come in and help me.After that she took a grade. Susan: Didn't you say something about being a shortage of books for the children too? Anna: Well yes. In the other kindergartens the books were—a—furnished for kindergarten, and we both had subscribed to a educational magazines, and then afterwards a list of the new books and a description of them, and so when I—the list was made out once a year and we put in asking for certain books for the library in Harry L. They thought the kindergarten shouldn't have sole possession of these new books, they should be in the library so that they could be shared. Marguerite: They didn't look them up, Ann. They didn't find out what to get. Anna: When I'd go to get the books, especially the seasonal ones I—some first grade teacher would have them and I wouldn't be able to get them, so after that I didn't order any books. I bought all the books myself that I wanted to, best as I can. Marguerite: We had two different principals. I think mine cooperated a lot more. Yes, yeah her name was Jennie Frail, she was an outstanding principal, of course Miss Clark was very good too. Anna: Yes, we both had very, very understanding principals, very understanding principals. A ha—we enjoyed working under them both and a— Susan: And having retired here, you have lived to see your pupils grow up and have children of their own? Anna: Yes. Even now as late as this I meet people on the street. I did just the other day—a, “Did you teach school?” and I said, “Yes.” “A were you in Harry L?” “Yes.” “Well then you were my teacher.” And I had the doctor’s assistant that I went to last Tuesday was one that I had, Novesky, and a by the way I can say that I had the lady that is interviewing me, I had her in kindergarten. (chuckle) Susan: I was going to close with that, Miss Kern, that you were my teacher too. (chuckle—ha ha ha) Marguerite: Dr. Harold Maddi the osteopath, of course he's dead now. He was in the first class that I had here. Uh ha— Anna: Speaking of people I had, George Krutz is now Chief of Police in Johnson City. I had John Cenesky, who is a lawyer here in Johnson City, and many others, then I had Edward Sabol who became a President of a university and many others, but I just can't recall their names right now. Marguerite: And I had Bob Fisher and his brother and then the Connerton boy, well he's a practicing lawyer now in Binghamton. Susan: They are all prominent businessmen. Anna: I had Robert Eckelberger, he is a lawyer—a local lawyer. Marguerite: And then I had quite a few that became outstanding teachers. Anna: And as pupils I had some of the future Johnson City teachers who themselves are now retired (ha ha). It's been a long time. Anything else? Susan: Do you have anything more that you'd like to say to whoever may be playing this tape a hundred years from now? Marguerite: Well tell them we enjoyed every minute of it—teaching. Anna: We had very fine Superintendents to work under. Marguerite: A ha. The Board of Education. Anna: A fine Board of Education, ah they did everything they could for us except give us big salaries. (ha ha) Marguerite: $25 a year increments. And uh yeah— Susan: Well thank you very much, ladies. I certainly have enjoyed talking with you and it certainly has been nice seeing you again, Miss Kern. Anna: It's been nice talking with you. Susan: Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anna Kern and Marguerite Jennings Subject The topic of the resource Kern, Anna -- Interviews; Jennings, Marguerite -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); World War, 1914-1918; Teachers -- Interviews Description An account of the resource Anna Kern and Marguerite Jennings talk about their upbringings and how technology has changed since their childhoods. Anna Kern discusses attending kindergarten training school in Syracuse, NY and teaching in several Johnson City schools during her years as a teacher. She met Ms. Jennings upon her arrival to Johnson City. She also discusses the expanding limits of Johnson City and how it affected the school districts, the demographics of families living in the area, and establishment of the PTA, as well as her involvement with local groups in supporting the war effort during WWI. The two describe the changing curriculum and how their friendship has grown since meeting. They also name some students they taught who grew to have notable professions. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 38 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern, Anna; Jennings, Marguerite ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-19 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 31:34 Minutes