72 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f0e311fc930b98671ed9b4925b795b96.mp3 230a47a39051a06ef761d0e05b33eecc https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/658c9267362880e2e70d674158dd629b.mp3 dd5de00e982da20488acc88269486a77 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56941">Interview with Leo J. Payne</a> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:47 minutes ; 7:19 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Material Type Sound Subject LCSH Payne, Leo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview with: Leo J. Payne Interviewer: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 10 February 1978 Dan: Mr. Payne, will you please tell me about your life and working experiences in the community starting with the early days, including the place of birth, education and family life with emphasis on your working experiences? Mr. Payne: Well I, ah, of course was born in Towanda, Pennsylvania, ah, the family moved to Binghamton when I was two years old and ah, we, ah, my father went to work for Cyrus Clapp on ah Chenango Street–19 Chenango Street as a coachman and ah when I was five years old he ah went into trucking business for himself with a cart wagon and ah two horses and he moved to 25 Sherman Place. I was ah just as a small boy when ah he took me up to watch the ah ah the Courthouse burn down. We ah I saw that, that was quite a place and was up on quite a hill at that time. Now let’s see ah I ah I went to ah Carroll Street School until I was around 8 years old and then to ah Washington Street School–now the ah police station, where the Police Station used to be and ah when I was 12 years old, I went to to ah Central High School (Clock Chimes) and ah got my education there. After that I went to Riley's Business School that was oh can't think the name of that little street and ah from there I ah got a position as a Bookkeeper and Stenographer with ah Harry Doherty, who runs one of the first garages in Binghamton selling the Pierce Arrows and the White Steamers–not the Pierce Arrows, the Cadillacs and the Stanley Steamers. Ah business got bad and ah I was ah laid off. I went back to help my father then shovel coal–he used to have a contract with them and the Binghamton Cold Storage company. After about six months, a Professor Riley got me a position as a Bookkeeper and Stenographer at, ah, G.A. Glark Company in Sidney, N.Y. I stayed there until my–I worked too much inside–my Doctor told me I’d have to get outdoors or get a coffin–so the only thing I know what to do, I sold my house in Sidney and came down and bought out ah Rich ah Millard–he had that ah ah trucking business that people put him in business but he didn't want no business and so finally they ah put it up for sale but that was at the same time–so I came down and looked. He had two trucks & ah made a payment on them–I bought them. I went back to ah Sydney to get the ah ah additional loan so I could pay for it as my boss, my boss G.A. Clark's brother was President of the Sidney National Bank. Well I ah got along very good. After a couple years ah Mr. Clark came down, wanted to buy my trucks and ah have me come back to work and then my wife–I got married in between and ah at ah Cynthia Gifford, whose father was President of the ah People’s Trust Company in Sidney–he disowned her for you know ah marrying a colored man and ah we got, we got along very good. We came down to Binghamton and got married at the Centenary Church. I can remember at that time my people were living at 173 Henry Street in Binghamton. Had a, well, I got along very good by industrious working–I done a lot of work myself and I went around and worked up a very good business and finally connected with ah the Kroehler Manufacturing Company in 1930 and ah drawing furniture for them to different towns and ah I worked for them until around 1970, I think, in 1968 or 70 when I an gave ah a tractor and trailer one each to my two brothers, who were working for me and ah told them that they could go for their own as a gypsy as they had no rights–Interstate rights see, which I did have and I continued in a small way ah with a couple of moving vans doing moving jobs around ah near Binghamton as possible and in Binghamton and still doing it. Now that’s about all I ah had two children–one of my sons, Clark Payne, and we named him after my ah earlier boss in Sidney and ah he died here a short time ago and my daughter Doris is still with me and ah looking after me. I've had several heart attacks and ah two years ago I had two heart plants and ah, what you call it, pacemakers. Dan: Pacemakers. Mr. Payne: Put in and at the present time I'm feeling quite well. Dan: That’s fine. Mr. Payne: Now that’s about– Dan: How old are you, Mr. Payne? Mr. Payne: I’m 80–89 years old that 1st of February. Dan: Great, great, great. Now what year did you buy the Richard Millard Company? Mr. Payne: 1917. Dan: 1917 and when did you get married–what year? Mr. Payne: Oh dear, let’s see, 1913. Dan: 1913 Mr. Payne: Well I was married twice. Dan: I see. Mr. Payne: I was married in 1910 the first time. My wife died of childbirth. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: And they had ah close the operation. Dan: I see, did the baby die too? Mr. Payne: They died before. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: So they had to force the operation but they didn’t have no hospitals there in Sidney and they just ah a couple of Doctors and ah they ah charged an operation with car batteries like–yeah they were car batteries some way but ah she only lived two days afterwards. Dan: I see, I see. Mr. Payne: But the second time, I was married in 1913. Dan: In 1913 the second time and when did your wife die or is she still livine? Mr. Payne (to daughter Doris): Oh when did your Mother die, do you remember? Doris: December 7th ‘69. Dan: December 7th ‘69. Now you mentioned that you were kind of disowned by the family because ah of– Mr. Payne: Of racial– Dan: Of racial discrimination there, yeah. Now did you encounter any racial discrimination here, Mr Payne? Mr. Payne: I, I never ah ah had ah any ah racial ah ah trouble here in Binghamton at all–never. Dan: Never. Mr. Payne: I went any place anybody else could go and was received. Dan: Um hum. Mr. Payne: ‘Cause I always tried to live a life that people would respect me. I joined the Masonic Lodge as soon as I could join and I ah was very ah enthusiastic about Masonic work and I finally ah ah rose up until now I am a Past Grand Master of the State Prince Hall affiliation of Masonic work. Dan: What church do you belong to? Mr. Payne: Trinity M.E. Zion. Dan: OK, do you belong to any clubs there at all? Mr. Payne: What’s that? Dan: Do you belong to any clubs there at all? Mr. Payne: Clubs, no I never joined anything else because I’ve always been very active in my Church work. For 15 years I was Chairman of the ah ah church Board. I ah put the church and an apartment next to it in the ah church’s ah lap without investing a cent. Free and clear–I had to use my head a little. Ah the ah State took over the parsonage for forty ah ah they only offered $450.00 for it. Dan: Is that right? Mr. Payne: Thats when they started clearing out for the playgrounds on ah Sherman Place. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: So, being very active in church work, they ah the ah church association here ah heard that I was looking for a parsonage–so the Chairman of the Church Board here called me up said, "Mr. Payne, I hear you're looking for a parsonage.” I said, "Yes, but I can't get ahit [sic] for what the ah anything for what they want to allow me for ah my old parsonage because anything I looked at was from 10 to 12 thousand, 12 hundred dollars.” So I says, he says, "Well how would you like to buy a church and a parsonage?” I says, “I’ll tell you, Reverend, I haven’t got five cents to invest. We are $1100.00 in the hole.” He says, "Well, could you have a couple of your board members meet me at the church on the corner of Lydia & Oak at 2 o'clock?" Yes sir, so I got ‘em, cause I was very active then and ah I looked the place over and ah he said, "Now ah IBM ah not IBM, GAF wants to ah buy the corner and ah put ah ah watering place there and ah Kradjian wants it to tear down and put ah ah development there, he said, but we rather have it for a church–Now it'll have to go up for a bid–could you make me a bid?" I said, "Well listen Rev, the best I could do would he $20,000.00.” He says, "Well I’ll take your bid in–how could you pay for it?” I said, "Cash." He says "What? I thought you was broke.” I am so I says, "I'll take care of it. I'll get in touch with you just within the next couple days.” So I called my head Minister up and I told him I says "You go see the Priest at ah St. Mary’s on ah Hawley and Fayette Street and tell him ‘cause he had asked me once before for a price on my church which was in very bad shape and he offered me $10,000.00 for it." Well I said 10 then 4, all right. I called Mrs. Titchner up–she was the development ah Superintendent here at that time–and I says, “Mrs. Titchner, I've got a proposition–it’s only good for a week. I've got to have at least $8,000.00 for the parsonage." [She says,] “Oh, Mr. Payne, I could never get that much.” I said, "Well I'm going to tell you what I've got in mind. I said I have ah offered the Church to the ah St. Mary’s ah Catholic Church for $15,000.00. I've given them a week’s, ah, option, I said, otherwise I'm gonna rebuild it" and ah (Clock chimes) she said, "Well I'm going to tell you what I'll do, Mr. Payne. I, I, I appreciate what you're doing, I'll call the State and see what I can do for you. I'll tell them the situation.” About three days afterwards, she called back and said, "OK, you can have the $8,000.00"--so I got that $8,000.00. The, the Priest saw my Minister and told him he’d take it, so I got $15,000.00–so I got $23,000.00, see, without a dime invested no place and ah I don't know, it was transacted through ah the First City National Bank and I met there with them. Ah the President of the Bank at that time said, "I don't know I ah Mr. Payne, you' re marvelous, I ah wish we had a Chairman that could work it like you worked it." (Laughter) So I took the $20,000.00 ah ah to them to for the church, I mean to pay for it–I had $3000.00 left, I paid the $1100.00 off that ah we owed and ah cause the ceiling was falling down and ah I had that fixed and that’s what I owed and then I took a couple thousand dollars they ah they ah–the furnace was bad so I put a new furnace in or used one that was in very good shape I bought from Fred Kennedy–at that time he was in the ah ah used building ah business and ah used the rest of the money for decorating the inside and what we could on the outside painting he says and they didn't cost them a dime. (Laughter) Dan: Ah, now what you said, you went to Central High School–did you graduate from ah Central High School? Mr. Payne: I ah ah quit ah ah in the ah eleventh grade to go to ah cause my family was in a little bad shape to go to they had enough money to send me to Riley's Business College and so I, I didn't quite finish ah for that and went to Riley's Business College. Riley's son and I had been friends ever since we was small kids and ah he told me I've ah had enough education for what he can give me so I don't need no more and he'll see that I get a break cause there was a lot of prejudices you know at that time in Binghamton. Dan: Lot of what, lot of what? Mr. Payne: Prejudices. Dan: Oh, prejudices. Mr. Payne: Yeah, I can remember that ah Ralph Hackett was in charge of ah the ah G.F. Pavilion and ah he ah I don't know, I wanted to raise money for the Lodge, see if we could buy a place eventually, so I started ah ah giving some dances around and I went down to see Ralph cause we had been friends ah otherwise and ah I asked him if we could rent it. He says, "Oh, this is strictly ah ah company ah company place of amusement and it’s not for rent to anybody.” I says, “Well you tell ah George F. that I want it at least twice a year–once in the spring and once in the fall for a Masonic dance and I want to improve the colored people in Binghamton as much as possible," and ah so anyhow ah he said to tell Ralph to let me have it once or twice a year– once in the spring and once in the fall, so Ralph and I got to be quite friends. So they was ah bringing name bands here for their dances and ah so ah–oh, I'm trying to think of his name now, oh he was a good friend of mine. He just died. Oh colored ah band Leader–tops–what was his name? Oh dear, he was a composer as well as ah ah– Dan: Wouldn’t be Garner there, would it? Mr. Payne: What? Dan: Would it be Garner, Garner? Mr. Payne: No–Duke Ellington. Dan: Duke Ellington. Mr. Payne: Yeah, he came here. They wouldn't let him, they had 20 people. They wouldn't let his ah ah his group stay overnight in any hotel here. Dan: What year was this? Mr. Payne: Oh God, I don't quite remember the year, but anyhow, let’s see, Ralph called me up and wanted to know if I could find places for them to stay overnight among my friends because you know I you know because I was in top shape and had very good friends. I finally got 'em enough to room so I went back down–he come here on a bus with his band and ah I told him what I had done. He says, "Well listen, ah ah Mr. Payne, I'm I’m very thankful for what vou've done, but these white people in Binghamton do so and so, which I can't ever repeat.” Dan: In other words, in other words, there was discrimination. Mr. Payne: "From now on I'm going to play this engagement and I'm leaving afterwards and they'll get on their knees to get me back here again and they'll do it too.” And they really did and finally ah after many years they got him to come back. Dan: You know the Ku Klux Klan was very active at one time here in this city, wasn't it? Mr. Payne: All right - I had that, at that time when the Ku Klux Klan was active here in Binghamton, had a Convention here, I can't remember the date. It was in the 20s. Ah I was, ah, backed on Centenary Street with my truck, loading some furniture, and it blocked off the street and ah a guy come by with a pickup truck and wanted me to move my truck out of the street londside. Well I told him I couldn't do it because we was getting ready to put a piano in and ah he'd have to wait. Well I ain't waiting but he did ah went up on the sidewalk on the other side and he clipped the front of ah my truck. So I jumped out there boy and I let him have one. So he says, "We got an organization going to take care of you." I says, “Oh you have, well I've got an organization that says you can’t." I was very proud of proud to belong–I didn't belong of of to be a friend of the Mafia, that was here. That was ah at that time I had ah a associate business of welding on Collier Street, which was known at that time as Automobile Row and ah this one particular friend there was a liquor ah ah ah bar room on each side of where I was ah ah I had my welding shop and ah I this is where I met this one of the heads of the Mafia, who became a very good friend of mine. I told him about what this guy said ‘cause I know they was quite strong from talking with them before because there was a lot of Italian people down around that way, see. He says, ''All right, they're having ah ah big time here next year, Ku Klux Klan, I'm going with you and we're going up and see that parade and I want to tell them something anyhow." So we went up and stood on the corner of Chenango and Henry. All right, this ah parade come down and this big shot stopped right in front of us–so right away quick my pal says, "Listen you so and so, this is my pal Leo Payne, I heard that you was ah looking for him and here he is. If you touch one hair of his head, I blow your head off." And then he told me if I, I wanted him at that time, anybody put out of the way, for $125 .00 I could have it done and nobody would be the wiser who done it. Dan: Now you ah did you encounter any other prejudices as far as the white people in the community? Mr. Payne: Never had any trouble at all. Dan: No, no trouble at all. You're an old established family here, Mr. Payne. Mr. Payne: What? Dan: You’re an old established family here–respected family.. Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: You are. Now you said your dad was in business in the piano moving business before you? Mr. Payne: He was in the moving business. Dan: Moving business. Mr. Payne: Moved anything, cleaning out cellars and moving. Dan: How long was he in business? Mr. Payne: Oh dear, uh uh until he died. Dan: Until he died–what year would that be approximately? Mr. Payne: I think, let’s see, he's been dead about 16 years. Dan: lb years. Mr. Payne: Yeah, and my mother died right afterwards–the next year. Dan: About 1961 then, huh? Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: Uh huh, 62. Mr. Payne: They're buried in ah Chenango Valley Cemetery. So when my wife died, I bought five lots up there for my immediate family which I still own. Put a stone up there for both my wife and myself. Dan: Now you worked from 1917, when you started in business, right up until 67–did you say 1967 - 68? Mr. Payne: I quit work ah about ah oh about 4 years ago, myself that is, doing any labor. Dan: Oh you did. Did you that soon, huh? Just 4 years ago. Mr. Payne: Yes that’s all. Dan: Oh. Mr. Payne: I was good right up ‘til then. Dan: Who's carrying on your business now, Mr. Payne? Mr. Payne: Well I am. Dan: Oh, are you? Mr. Payne: Sure, I just answer the phone or have my daughter, if I can't hear–she answers for me. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: And I have a couple friends of mine that worked with me when I was ah ah driving myself years and years ago. Dan: Now what was the pay scale when you started out down in back in 1917. How much were you making - how much were you making yourself back in 1917? Mr. Payne: Ah, I was getting top pay $20.00. nan: $20.00 a week? Mr. Payne: Yeah. Dan: That’s out of your business? Mr. Payne: No, I ah ah that’s what I got up in Sidney. Dan : Oh, in Sidney. Mr. Payne: At the end. Dan: I see, but when you got in business for yourself? Mr. Payne: I just, whatever I made, I made and that’s it. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: And I improved my business as much as I could until finally I got tired and figured that I had enough. (Clock Chimes). I had a home up on South Washington Street which–when I, I got the first ah heart attack–everything was turned over to my daughter who has taken over since then. Dan: Yeah, how long have you lived here, sir? Mr. Payne: 4 years. Dan: 4 years Mr. Payne: About 4 years, maybe 5. Dan : Uh huh. Mr. Payne: It’s all paid for. Dan: Now ah this Henry Doherty that you spoke of–how do you spell his last name? Mr. Payne: D-O-H-E-R-T-Y.. Dan: Now you remember the Courthouse when it burned down? Mr. Payne: Yes. Dan: That was quite a few years ago, because that’s rebuilt. Mr. Payne: I think around, ah, I was about 5 years old. 1904, I think. Dan: 1904 is when it was built, I think, wasn't it or was it? Mr. Payne: Well it was just ahead. I was only just around about 4 or 5 years old. Dan: 4 or 5 years old. Mr. Payne: Yeah, because I know my Father, ah, we were living on Sherman Place only just below there a little ways. I seen so many changes. Dan: And you say you started out in the Cyrus Clapp– Mr. Payne: Yes, working for Cyrus Clapp. Dan: Did this, was the–you worked for Cyrus Clapp? Mr. Payne: That’s right–he sold out where the Press Building is. Dan: I see. Mr. Payne: And that’s where I lived in right behind there in the carriage house when we first moved here. Dan: Is that right? Mr. Payne: Yes, upstairs over the carriage. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: Where they kept the horses. Dan: You're 89 years old now, so it'd be 87 years ago that you lived in back. Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: Before the Press Building was built. Mr. Payne: Oh yes, yeah, there was quite a knoll there, yes. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: Which has all been distributed, I mean taken away, you know. Tommy, I think it was Tommy lived next door–he was rich too. I remember Conklin used to live on the corner of Exchange and Hawley Street and that was up on a hill where the YMCA is now and us kids used to ah get barrel staves and ah make skis (Laughter) and ride down there in the wintertime. Dan: So you were down in Sherman Place, ah, was where your business started or where you moved to–Sherman Place at one time. Mr. Payne: When I come? Dan: Yeah. Mr. Payne: My father was living on Exchange Street at the time. Dan: Yeah Mr. Payne: And I come down and, ah, lived with him for a few months when I moved over on ah ah 35 DeRussey Street. Dan: Is that where you started in business on DeRussey Street? Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: Uh huh. Mr. Payne: 35–I lived upstairs over Sam Katz. Dan: Uh huh, yeah, South Washington Street (to daughter) right right–I can remember when the DeRussey Street bridge went out. Mr. Payne: Oh dear. Dan: Uh huh. Well is there anything else you would like to add, Mr. Payne, before I– Mr. Payne: Well truthfully I can't think of anything of importance. Dan: You're a very successful business man. Very well respected in your community. Mr. Payne: I have been until just the last couple of months. Dan: Uh huh Mr. Payne: I had very bad luck from vandals–poured some water in the crankcase of my truck and it swelted such, the motor, and I had to have a new one put in and ah it cost me $1635.00 to get another motor put in. Dan: Gee. Mr. Payne: And then I burned up my Cadillac. Dan: Gee, everything comes at once. Mr. Payne: Right out here in the yard. Dan: Now when you first started your business, you got a loan from the Bank in Sidney–is that right? Mr. Payne: That’s right. Dan: And then you–how many trucks do you own now? Mr. Payne: l've only got ah the one I'm keeping now–I'm using. Dan: OK well, I certainly thank you very much, Mr. Payne–I'll play this back for you so you can hear how your own voice sounds. Date of Interview 1978-02-10 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dan O'Neil Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Leo J. Payne Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leo J. Payne Description An account of the resource Leo Payne speaks of his early childhood growing up in Binghamton and later working as a bookkeeper and stenographer. He owned his own trucking company in Binghamton in the early twentieth century. He discusses his inter-racial marriage and the death of his first wife in childbirth because there were no hospitals in Sidney, N.Y. where his wife had gone into labor. He was active in a Masonic Lodge and in his church, Trinity M.F. Zion, the latter for which he assisted in securing a new church building. He also discusses discrimination and discriminatory business practices in the area at the time, including an anecdote about Duke Ellington being refused a place to stay when he came to Binghamton to perform. He speaks about his experiences with the Ku Klux Klan and the Mafia in Binghamton. At the time of the interview, Payne was 89 years old and still running his trucking business. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Payne, Leo J. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 76A ; Recording 76B Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:47 minutes; 7:19 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1101a953fd5e698e3690c61fd46501f4.mp3 09234b1106b08dc37c58f39811a0f4d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. 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This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Boyd, Jeanette Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-02-10 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:10 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55868">Interview with Jeanette Boyd</a> Subject LCSH Boyd, Jeanette -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Social workers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service; Tuberculosis; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Boy Scouts of America; Medicaid; Clinics; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Castle; Conklin (N.Y.) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Jeanette Boyd Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 10 February 1978 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with Mrs. Jeanette Boyd, who lives at 2 Duffey Court, Binghamton, NY. The date is February 10, 1978. Mrs. Boyd, would you please tell us something about your early beginnings: where you were born, something about your parents, any of your recollections of your childhood? Jeanette: Well, I was born on Prospect Street in Binghamton in 1906, and ah, my father then was, ah, connected with the Broome County Humane Society and Welfare Association, and I went to Jarvis Street School, which is now closed of course, ah, and Laurel Avenue School and then to Helen Street School, which is now Thomas Jefferson. Graduated from high school in 1924 and—  We took street cars wherever we wanted to go, ah—to get to school I walked across, ah—ah, Glenwood Ave., where the trains would be stalled on the—on the crossings, and I would have to crawl through the trains to get to school on time and, ah, but we made it very nicely. I used to go skating down in Endicott. We had to walk to Main Street for a streetcar and go down to where Union Endicott School is now—we'd go skating and get all wet and come home on the streetcar and then walk home all the way in from Main Street. We had no cars then, and these days children would stay home and watch television rather than do all of that. And ah— When I graduated in ’24, ah, I went into the Humane Society and worked there for three or four years, and ah, my mother didn't think it was the place for an 18 year old, and I really had a very liberal education. I, ah—I learned much about the birds and the bees and how everything, ah, worked or didn't work, but I survived it, and I'm sure lots of other people would too, but ah, we ah, we housed at that time the Girls Club. Ah, in fact my father started the Girls Club in that building and, ah, bought a building on the same corner for the Boys Club, to house that, and ah, we had clinics in the building. We had the first eye, ear and nose clinic that Dr. Roe had there, and Dr. Bolt, and we had a tuberculosis clinic and a heart clinic, all kinds of clinics in—in that building, and doctors volunteered their time, they were not paid for it, and of course the welfare work was done by my father and with a lot of George F. Johnson's money. Susan: Give his name now. Jeanette: Ah, Sam Koerbel, and ah, we also had Children's Court in that building and on the top floor we had a children's detention. He would not put the children in the jail, so we made a jail up on the top floor and had delinquent children up there and we had a colored family, a negro couple who ah—who were the attendants up there and, ah, so that the children did not go into the big jails the way they do now with the adults or anything of this kind. They did not go into courts. They went into just their own small Children's Court and the welfare work, as I say, was done there, the ah—ah, people who—the separated couples, ah, the men had, ah, to come in and pay each week, and then the women would come in and get the checks and so that we could know that they were paying their alimony and the people, their families were not going hungry and— Down in the basement George F. Johnson had a—had a clothing bank, and the children came in after school with their sizes that the teachers had written, sizes of clothing, and ah, we would give them coats, underwear, at that time they were wearing long underwear, and they would come in so wet and bedraggled, but we'd fit shoes on them. Then at Christmas time, of course, the school sent in many lists of sizes and we would do them up in bundles and deliver them to the houses. We had an English investigator, a lady, Elizabeth, I don't know what her last—Anderson was her name, Andy, and ah, she would go out and check the families that wanted welfare and, ah, if they were dirty she wouldn't give them one thing. She'd come in storming and she'd say, "Don't give that family one thing. I gave them some soap powder and some soap. Those kids have got to be cleaned up, the house has got to be cleaned up. I'm going back tomorrow, and if they're clean they can have some food and clothing, otherwise they can't have a thing.” So, usually they were cleaned up, and I guess from that I say that families who are on welfare may not have much money, but they can be clean and I have not much use for—for dirty people, and I think maybe that Andy was at the bottom of that and, ah— Susan: I might say they need an Andy now. Jeanette: They do, oh, she was a little spitfire. She was English and she told those people what they could do and what they couldn't do, and they were scared to death of her.  [Telephone rings].  I, ah—I don't know just exactly what, ah—what, ah, you'd like to, ah, hear. We, ah, in the office we also did dog licenses. We had to go through the, ah—the books once a year and, ah, we had to send the men out. Of course we—we had the dogs under our jurisdiction too, dogs and cats, and my grandfather was dog catcher at one time. In fact the way my father got started in the Humane Society was to become the dog catcher, for the first time way, way back, and ah, he ran away from home when he was eleven years old in Waterville, NY, and ah, made his way to Binghamton and worked in a grocery store here, then became dog catcher and eventually was the Humane Officer here. [Telephone rings.] And another thing that might be interesting, ah, George F. Johnson had an office for my father down in the tannery office in Endicott, and out of that he worked welfare in Endicott. Or he would make arrangements for them to come to Binghamton for welfare work, then along in 1923 or ’24, I just don't remember, George F. Johnson had my father buy the Castle on the Conklin Road, and ah, at that time there was a lot of tuberculosis in the welfare families and, ah, July, for instance, they had girls and in August they had boys from these tubercular families, and ah, this was free, of course, and ah, in fact the first time that they had these, ah, little camps, my mother and an aunt had them right in our farmhouse there, where we used to go in the summertime, and ah, turned two or three rooms into dormitories—had the girls, ten or twelve, in July, and boys, and then out of these groups they, ah, had them stay all winter in this castle that they eventually bought, and the garage was made into a school and they had their own school teacher, and ah, there was an underground passage from the Castle to the garage that the children thought was wonderful, and of course the Castle has now been given by George F. Johnson to the Town of Conklin and it is town offices now, used for town parties and that kind of thing, but ah, it had, oh, a great big stove and, ah, of course they had a dining room with a lot of tables in there. It was a real school, and ah, one of the cooks used to bake angel food cakes on the ledge in the furnace and of course the children thought that that was wonderful. She said it was a nice, even heat, and she would put her cake tin right in there on that ledge and, ah, and then the—the, when the children were well and, ah, had been fed and fattened up a little bit, then they went home and the next summer another group would come in, and out of that they would choose the children that needed it the most and then they would stay a year, and this was all with George F. Johnson's money through the Humane Society and, ah, during the Depression. Oh, there, the Humane Society building was an old hotel and it had what used to be a ballroom and, ah, they had soup lines in there and we used to serve the people soup, mostly men as a rule would come, not families but men, and ah, then they—we would cook big—ah, big pots of pork and sauerkraut and, ah, then, of course as I said, they say, ah—they had the Girl Scouts there. They had showers for the girls, some of them never had baths any other time if they didn't take a shower then, and ah, the Humane Society originated, ah, in the City Hall, so I have been very interested in Alice Wales and her committee working to preserve the City Hall, because the policemen were on the first floor and I knew all of them by name when I was along, eight-nine-ten years old, and ah, the Humane Society offices were on the second floor and I used to stay there while my mother went shopping. I'd much prefer playing in that City Hall building so I have felt, ah, very interested in preserving that—that building, ’cause I think it's worth it regardless of the amount of money. I don't know if there is anything else that you'd like to know or not? Susan: Well, I think it would be interesting to compare how the people felt about receiving help in the old days? Jeanette: Well, of course they—they felt ashamed at that point to, ah—to have to go on welfare, although many of them had to during the Depression, but the men did work, uh, and were allowed to work even though they were receiving welfare. They were encouraged to work, which they are not, which doesn't happen these days. They don't encourage them to work at all. If they can get something for free, why, that's just great and, ah, but I think people have lost their—their sense of responsibility towards the public, to ah, they would rather go and collect their welfare checks and their food stamps and, ah, they have big cars and televisions, and in those days they were not allowed to drive up to get welfare with a car, neither did they come in taxis. They came on streetcars and they took their clothing home on the streetcars and, ah, they were given Christmas baskets from Volunteers and Salvation Army and the Humane Society, but they cooperated so that there were not duplicates and I—I think they try these days, but ah, not to have duplicates, but I think that the people are so grabby that they will take two or three baskets if it's handed to them, and I know I have taken, ah, families out just recently to buy things for Christmas, and it's amazing that some women are quite conscious of the price and what she buys for 50¢ or 75¢, while another woman, knowing that it's free, will ah, grab the highest price can of coffee off the shelf until I make her put it back. I don't buy that myself, but let’s buy something else instead of buying the best, you know, but they think they should have the best. Susan: So many of them buy so much junk food and do not cook good nourishing meals for their children. Jeanette: That's right, that's right. This family that I'm helping now is a family of twelve children. She never bakes her own cakes. She was getting a frozen pie and a frozen cake, and I said, "That's ridiculous, I don't buy those, they're too expensive. We'll buy a box cake,”—oh no, she wouldn't have anything to do with that, and I said, “Do you have a cake tin?” “No.” So I said, “Well let’s—let’s buy something cheaper, we'll buy cookies then,” and well, she didn't bake cookies either, and I—I just can't understand this. I—I never went hungry, but I always baked my own cookies and my own cakes and my own pies. Susan: Well nowadays the popular thing is to go to McDonalds as soon as they get their checks. Jeanette: Of course, of course. Susan: Burger King—yes—Kentucky Chicken. Jeanette: But I just couldn't believe it, that she didn't do any baking with twelve children. I said, “You can bake a cake for 50¢ plus two eggs.” Susan: Are you still active in—n some form of welfare? Jeanette: No. I just do—do some through the church. Susan: Oh, through the church. Jeanette: We have a used clothing bank there, and we send to four mission churches in the south regularly and help them at Christmastime, but it is also open to people on welfare in Binghamton, so that is, that's the way I became acquainted with this family of twelve children, that they had heard through the grapevine, I suppose, that we had clothing. Susan: Is she the one you were telling me about the birth control pill? Jeanette: Yes, yes, and she was quite upset—she wanted clothing too, and I offered her several coats but no, she wanted a short coat. She wanted a pants coat, you know, and I said, “Well, of course this is not a store, we have only, ah, what people bring in to us,” and I offered her some dresses and no, she, she'd rather have blue jeans, so she went away with nothing, and her husband did take some shirts and a coat, but ah, some of the things that I offered her, said, oh well, her children wouldn't like that, and I said, well, if it did keep her warm. Susan: They' re very choosy. Jeanette: I think that they should be very happy to have them, but I, they have a car and of course it's the only way that they can get around, I suppose, with twelve children. You do have to buy groceries. They live up on Front Street now, but they've moved four or five times in the two years that I've known them. Now I don't know whether they don't pay their rent or what happened to them. It’s most discouraging when you try to help somebody and, ah, then they—they turn you down with things that would keep them warm, at least. Susan: They're talking about welfare reform and we certainly need it. Jeanette: I'd like to sit on that committee, but I'm sure that I won't be asked, ha ha, but I—I do think that, ah—ah, maybe one with gray hair on that might do some good if they could go back to some principles, at least, and not feel that, well, these people have it due them—well, I don't think that they do if they don't work, I—I don't think that work ever hurt anyone, and I think that we should support ourselves as long as we can and as much as we can and, ah, these teenagers that get married and don't have jobs, I—I don’t think that they should be allowed to marry— Susan: —or live together. Jeanette: Ha. That's right, that's right, and ah, they go in with these food stamps ahead of me in line, college kids, and ah, I don"t think that's necessary, if ah—if they can't afford to go to college then there are loans, and I'm sure that some of their families, ah, are well to do, and yet the kids come up here and get food stamps, and I—I don't think that's right for our county or state to pay for this kind of thing. Susan: For out of state students. Jeanette: That's right, and ah, of course they go around looking like ragamuffins, so maybe that's the way they get their food stamps, but ah— Susan: I think it's a way of getting a little pocket money. Jeanette: It's a way of getting something, I'm just not sure what it is, but I—I think it annoys me because these college kids can get a job. They can work in the summertime, my grandchildren do and, ah, but why should they, when they can get food stamps and have it handed to them? Susan: Is there anything else that you would like to go back over? Jeanette: Well, I—I really can't think of anything else. Susan: Oh, they never gave any, ah, cash to the people when in the early days it was just food and clothing? Jeanette: That's right, we had—we had grocery stores that were available for this kind of thing, and of course they were independent grocery stores then, and food was, or we bought it, wholesale. There were wholesale, well, like Darling & Co., I don't know whether they were, I think they were still in business then, but at least we bought hams and turkeys and all of that kind of thing, wholesale potatoes, wholesale, and ah, then we would make up the baskets ourselves or, I mean at Christmastime, or we would just get an order at a store, and no, the people were not given cash and I don’t give cash to the people who help me—that I am helping. I go with them shopping, and I pay the bill, I—I don't trust them. I'm sorry but I, ha—I just don't. I—I think they would go out and buy beer and cigarettes, all that kind of thing. I don't think that's the way to help people. Susan: Well, the principle that the system is working under now is that they are trying to teach them how to manage their money, but they do not pay for the things that the money is given to them for. Jeanette: That's right. That’s right. Susan: And I would like to see some changes made there. Jeanette: Yeah. No. They won't, not the people these days.  Susan: The majority of them. Jeanette: I—I think before, we had a lot of foreigners, a lot of Slavić people over around the first ward, and I know when my husband died I—I sold real estate for a couple of years, and I went up on the hill, ah, back of Glenwood Ave., and there was an old German, I don't think she was German, at any rate she was foreign, and ah, the woman with me introduced me and she said, “I—I think you, ah, probably knew this woman's father, Sam Koerbel.” Oh, then the woman spoke very brokenly and, ah, she said, “Oh, Sam Koerbel, we just couldn't have lived through the Depression without him,” so you see, it was mostly first ward people that, ah, that we helped for some reason or another. We did others, too, but I—I think my memory is, is more of the foreign class that perhaps came over and couldn't get jobs, or couldn't get enough work for their big families, and ah, some of them were E-J workers and if they didn't have the work, why, then of course we helped them out, but ah, we were busy all day long with the people coming to the—to the, ah, windows there and taking their histories, and it would be all through a child's life until they were up to seventeen or eighteen years old. I know a lot of them now that we had on welfare, I see their names and they're in business and they've made names for themselves. Susan: Made names for themselves, not third and fourth generation welfare— Jeanette: That's right, that's right. Susan: —recipients. Jeanette: Yeah, they were willing to work, and I think, to go back to Andy, maybe her teaching of cleanliness— Susan: —cleanliness— Jeanette: You've got to be clean and you've got to help yourself or you don't have any welfare, and I think that just maybe, maybe they were taught the right way, I don't know, and being helped in the clinics and the delinquents. I know one, one in town who is in business now, was definitely a delinquent. He was on parole for, oh, two or three years. He'd come in every week to, ah—to sign in and tell us what he was doing, you know, but he learned his lesson the hard way. Yeah. Susan: Do you want to comment on the difference in the children in the old days as against the, ah, now generation? Jeanette: Oh, well, the children were disciplined, and they didn't find fault with their teachers and they didn't talk back to their teachers. If a teacher told you to do something, you did it. You, ah, you didn't question it, and it was the same with your—your parents, of course. The one reason that there was welfare, to talk about discipline, I—I think that the men would get their checks and they would go to the saloon and, ah, down on Glenwood Ave. there was a saloon that my father raided periodically and, ah, he would finally have the women come in, and the men would have to bring their checks in to us and then the women would come in to get them, but ah, the ah, I know my grandmother was helping a family right close to us, and they were Slavić and he was a drunk and didn't have any money for—for food, and my grandmother was so mad she went right down, and he was a little bit of a thing and she just shook him, she just shook him practically off—off the feet, ha ha. She came home laughing about it and she said, “Well, I don't think Pete's going to get drunk right away again because I shook so hard,” and he had been beating up his wife, and you know, I don't know whether it did any good, but I often think about seeing my grandmother shake this man, and you don't do that these days, if you went in and shook anybody and tried to make them behave you'd be taken into court. Susan: There are too many rights to be— Jeanette: That's right and that's too bad, that's too bad. I know one night my father had a telephone call around 10 o'clock and they said, “Sam, there is two or three young boys gone up into the cemetery in back of us and they've been trying to get into my house, but I saw them run up in the cemetery,” and my father just casually got out his gun and walked up the road and said, “You fellows come on out, I've got a gun on you,” and they walked out, and you know you wouldn't dare do that these days, you'd get the police force, the FBI, and everybody else out, but he just came down, he called the patrol and they came and got them and took them over to his—his, ah, detention, and the next day he had them in Children's Court. I—I believe they were scared to death of him. “I'm Sam Koerbel, come out, I've got a gun.” Everyone knew him. So they just, ah, they just did it as Sam Koerbel said, and even now my children will say, “Well, I'm sorry that those kids don't have a Sam Koerbel to put them right.” I—I just wish that he was around, I wonder what he'd do. Well, I think he'd put them to work first. I—I don't believe I have anything else. Susan: Well, I think it's been very enjoyable talking with you. We agree on a good many points, Mrs. Boyd. Thank you very much for the interview. Jeanette: You’re welcome, you’re welcome. Susan: Mrs. Boyd, could we go back a little bit and give us a little more information about, ah, after you left your father's office and went on with your own personal life? Jeanette: Well, I was married in 1927 to a man that I had, ah, grown up with from the sixth grade and, ah, they had been neighbors of ours, and ah, we had two children, ah, Richard and Shirley. Four years apart, and ah, shortly after we were married, six months, we discovered he was a diabetic, so for the thirty-five years that we were married, ah, we battled diabetes, but ah, he was the kind that said, “I've got it and we will not talk about it.” So, we never did, so we just lived with it, and of course we had our two children after that and we lived on Floral Ave. at that time, on the second floor of my father's house. During the Depression, ah, my husband was out of work so we went into the heating contracting business, and ah, we ah, eventually, well, he installed oil burners and stokers at that time, and ah, we eventually through the years had an oil fuel oil delivery service, and I did all of his office work and made all my children's clothes, of course. In those days you didn't go out to the store and buy things, and ah, he finally worked into just industrial work and school work within a hundred miles and, ah, in 1951 my mother sold that house, my father died in 1947 and in ’51 she sold the Floral Ave. house, and we built and we went over on Stone Road on the south side, we built a house and she had her apartment on the second floor, she became an invalid, and my children, ah, graduated from Central High and North High. Dick went on to RPI on a scholarship, and ah, he has been an electrical engineer for Stromberg Carlson in Rochester and, ah, for them went to Denver and worked on some government work and into California and back to Rochester, and then he went in with TRW Systems, and he has six children and he has moved ten times in twenty years and, ah, every time they move I go and babysit, since my husband died fourteen years ago. I go wherever they are and I babysit, and so that I've gotten around the country pretty well, and my daughter, ah, married a electrical engineer in Stromberg, went to Rochester and she still lives there and she has two children, and ah, they both have good jobs now, and he went into the printing business and lost a great deal of money, but we pulled out of there after three or four years, and I’ve—he’s had a sick mother, and I’ve gone up for a week or two at a time and helped take care of her and, ah, we are a very close family. Ah, if I hear of bad weather on the coast we call and if, Dick called me the other morning at a quarter after seven, his time, and of course my first question at that hour of the day is, “What’s wrong? When do you want me?” and ah, so that, ah, he's concerned about us too, and I have done Y.W. work. I was on the board with the, oh, Peg Prentiss, and oh, a lot of the women, you would know if I could name them, for twenty or twenty-five years, ah, on and off the board on all kinds of committees through reorganizations, ah, to conventions. I did Girl Scout work when Shirley was working—I, err, was growing up—I ah, had a Girl Scout troop, she didn't have a leader, so I went to their, ah, training sessions and had thirty-five girls for three or four years while she was growing up, and my husband and father-in-law were in Boy Scouts work, I, they made headdresses, and I had feathers all over my house because the boys would come there and work in the living room and in the kitchen and I, I just wondered if I'd turn into a Boy Scout myself, and of course they all went to Boy Scout and Girl Scout camp. Church work, I've done a little bit of everything in, in church work. I've been an elder and a deaconess in the Presbyterian Church and, ah, when Rick and his wife, ah, were in Rochester, they helped start a Presbyterian Church there in Kenfield and it’s still going, and Horky and I gave them their first Communion set, ah, for the church and ah, oh, I don’t know, we've done so many things and, ah, we did a lot of traveling after our children were grown up. We'd take the month of May and just travel, and then when my husband died I took a course in real estate and sold real estate for two years, but that was a little bit rough for me. I—I couldn't quite manage real estate and I answered an ad—a blind ad, of course, in the Press, and ah, got this job at the Herlihy Trucking Co., and I’ve been there now, well, it will be twelve years in September, and shortly after I was there, about a year after I was there, the only other woman in the office, the bookkeeper and everything, was found dead in bed, so I was sort of thrown into bookkeeping and I am still in it, only two and a half days a week, and I tell them I'm really not needed, but they say, “Who would boss us if you weren't here and who would keep us in line?” So I'm still going. Susan: At 72. Jeanette: At 72. Susan: You're going to be 72. Jeanette: I will be 72 next week, uh huh. Susan: Well that's wonderful. Jeanette: And I drive to Rochester, ah, when I feel like it, winter or summer, and people say, “You drove up?” and ah, when my son was in Virginia I drove down there, it was six hours and I’d just pack up and go. I—it never occurred to me that I couldn’t do it. I'd always done it and it just never occurred to me that I couldn’t do it, and ah, I don't know that there is anything else—my daughter is a busy in church work and she, ah, often says in some of her problems and she’ll write or call up and she'll say, “Well, I pulled a Jeanette Boyd today, I just told them what they were going to do.” (Chuckle.) And so I have a real reputation, I guess, even with the bowlers, ah, we bowl on the grandmothers’ team and, ah, one girl that I—I didn't know that she ever paid any attention to me, and ah, we got up from our coffee break and I said, “All right, let’s get going here, let’s get going,” and she said, “There she goes again on her soap box,” so I—I guess I have a reputation of being a boss, but I—l don't mean to be that way. Susan: You're a very active person and you can be very, very proud of yourself, Mrs. Boyd. Jeanette: Well, thank you. Susan: Thanks again, this gives us a better idea of the kind of person I have been interviewing. Thank you. Bye bye. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jeanette Boyd Subject The topic of the resource Boyd, Jeanette -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Social workers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Workers Medical Service; Tuberculosis; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Boy Scouts of America; Medicaid; Clinics; Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Castle; Conklin (N.Y.) Description An account of the resource Jeanette Boyd talks about her life in Binghamton, NY as an active social worker for the Broome County Humane Society and Welfare Association. She discusses the current welfare system, and the first clinics for ear, nose, heart and tuberculosis. She discusses the "Castle" in the Town of Conklin and its purchase by George F. Johnson to be used as a camp for children of tubercular families. She talks about her family's involvement with the Girls Scouts and Boy Scouts organizations. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 6 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Boyd, Jeanette ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-02-10 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:10 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/56ce5f2c788fdf9d73e62f12ae496f20.mp3 3e2c53337634d51aca368e593735ba3f https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/891a8806e0849d4530d520736ae203e1.mp3 1384271b0d6df0532d82cbd51cef6b8f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Oldwine, Barbara Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55985">Interview with Barbara Oldwine</a> Subject LCSH Urban League; Planned Parenthood; Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Barbara Oldwine Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 1 March 1978 Dan: Barbara, would you tell me something about your life and working experiences in the community starting from the time of birth—OK? Barbara: I was born in the City of Binghamton at Binghamton General Hospital and the first place that I could call home was 20 Front Street, which was on the corner of Front and Riverside Drive. It would be interesting to know that the old Memorial—the Memorial Bridge that we now know in 1978 was not up then, so in order to get to the west side, you crossed Court Street Bridge. I stayed there as a girl until I moved to 24, pardon me, 41 Broad Avenue, which is in the 12th Ward. My education began at Alexander Hamilton School—kindergarten—it was Miss Manning as the principal. In Junior High I went to West Junior. I there had a half a term at Central and graduated from North High in February, 1941—we had midterm graduations at that time. I left Binghamton then and went to Fisk University in Nashville, Tennessee where I earned my Bachelor’s Degree, magna cum laude. My degree was History and English and like many women at that time, I was married to a serviceman who was at many places never dreaming that we would live back in Binghamton. When it was his decision to go to school under the G.l. Bill, we moved back to Binghamton in the house of my parents at 41 Broad Avenue—stayed there until we bought the home on Gaylord Street. Following his education, my husband became associated with IBM. He was the third Black man ever hired by that corporation. My career began with the Department of Social Services ah then known as the Welfare Department. Lounsberry was the Mayor and Mr. Robinson was the Commissioner and our office then was at 71 Collier Street which is now a big City parking ramp in 1978. I worked continuously for the Social Services Department for some 32 years and it was merged with the County under the direction of Mr. Libous and Mr. Crawford. When we talk about what I faced in the community as a member of the group of Black Americans and what minority problems we might have had, it might be interesting to know that one of he first things to happen while I was a Field Worker in the Department of Social Services—an applicant recipient called the agency and decided that they did not wish to be interviewed—to participate in a cash grant—if the interviewer was going to be a Black American. Mr. Robinson informed them that the interviewer was fine, based on ability and they were needed in the program that they must be interviewed, and that ended that confrontation or that problem, handled directly by the Administration. The most difficult time Neil and I faced was a returning couple to the community needing a place to live, having made a decision to first live with parents while he was getting the Degree and Percy Rex was Rector of my church—Trinity Memorial Episcopal—corner of Oak and Main at that time and he appealed to landlords who had been people who owned property that were members of our church, to give an apartment to this young couple—returning G.I. and veteran and his wife and we wouldn’t be strangers because I had been baptized in Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church in infancy and gone to that entire church, to the church school—my husband and I had married there and it had been our first child—it had then been ah born ah baptized there but no one came forward to give us a house and that was rather scarring and very hurting. Our decision then that we would move into the Veterans’ temporary housing, which was on the McArthur Tract and these people will recall was just the old quonset hut—McArthur School is now standing there—but they were operated by the City of Binghamton and although discrimination had first been observed in Veterans' Housing ah the first group of veterans who tried to move into the housing over on the Webster Court area and I think if you would recalled one—the veterans had to pitch a tent on the Courthouse lawn—that man was John Scanks and he too had served in WWII but he had broken the barrier so when Neil and I moved into temporary housing for veterans on McArthur ah Tract, we did not face any problem at that point. Our then goal was to face sufficient money to use the G.I. Bill and get a loan and purchase a home since renting was not possible. Well it wasn’t an easy task to purchase the home—the small down payment that we had at Binghamton Savings—I'm sure the loan people or the people of the accounts there wondered what Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were doing because we kept drawing $500 out on one day and putting it back on the next. What was happening was we were taking the money in good faith when we had gone with the real estate broker to look at property to try to purchase a modest home and the owner would decide then that even though they were not going to reside in the home themselves, they were going to sell and move away, that their neighbors would not want to have a young Black American couple there and of course at that time we did not have the laws against discrimination on the books of the State of New York and this was exercised several times against Neil and I and I think I have to give credit to a man by the name of Mr. Balin, who was a real estate dealer in the locality who came upon a home which we now still occupy, that was in an Estate and we were able to purchase this modest home at 24 Gaylord Street without any difficulty and we were given the ah G.I. Loan though the Binghamton Savings Bank—Mr. ah Cornelius is the President and we faced no discrimination in getting the loan at that time. An interesting thing happened to us as we became residents of Gaylord Street, 12th Ward Bingahmton—had two small girls then—one 6 and one 4—oldest girl was Eileen, our youngest daughter was Valerie and I went to business and I had a wonderful woman, Mrs. Stringham, as my housekeeper who came each day to assist me with the children and part of her plan was to take our 4 year old at 10 o'clock in the morning—walk and entertain her and let her have fresh air and one of my neighbors across the street had a 4 year old, whose grandmother was the loving, caring person but when Mrs. Stringham would bring Valerie out to play, this other grandmother would take this other 4 year old back in and I thought badly about that because what do 4 year olds know? They probably would have just played dolls and pushed carriages and Mrs. Stringham, who was my trusted housekeeper, ah was really concerned about that because she was a white American who was helping me to care for my children and the neighbors who always took their children in, were also white Americans—but you know that soon passed ’cause the children started playing and it didn't matter how the adults felt. They transcended that misunderstanding. We've lived on Gaylord Street now approximately 20 years and I couldn’t have better neighbors or more caring people. We are doing things together now that all neighbors do—help with the snow, get cars unshoveled—particularly conscious of that in this weather, take collections when somebody dies, cook a cake when a baby is born and rejoice and those things that were so terrible for that neighborhood in 1952, when Black Americans first came, really passed. They found out that Cornelius and Barbara Oldwine were going to work, make a living, mow grass, raise children, have sadness and happiness, and we've really become a strong unit on Gaylord Street and with people loving and caring about each other. Dan: Fine ah now you mentioned that when you first got married you moved in with your ah parents? Barbara: Right. Dan: And ah did they own their own home? Barbara: Yes they did. Dan: Did they have any trouble acquiring that? Barbara: Unfortunately the story about my father and mother acquiring the house on Broad Avenue ah is rather gruesome. My father and mother ah came to Binghamton in 1920 and it’s an interesting story because ah they were living in Manhattan and had to catch the Ferry and had to go to Hoboken and get on the old D.L. & W. so indeed they were immigrants. They were coming from Brunswick County, Virginia, and had worked in Manhattan but after that, placed in the mail by Mrs. Dunn—Mabel Dunn ah guess it was Mabel Dunn Eggleston, because she had been married to Dr. Eggleston who was a psychiatrist that had passed. The plan was that my parents, Mary E. and William A. Harris, would be the caretaker and housekeeper for her at 20 Front Street, because she was going to go abroad and she made an interesting plan. She would pay the way from Manhattan to Binghamton—they would work the year—they were satisfied they could stay—if they were dissatisfied, she would give them the fare back to New York and they could seek other employment. Well, needless to say, my parents came in 1920 and my dear father passed in 1973 and my mother is still alive and they made Binghamton their home. Now when he took a job with Mrs. Welden, part of your wages was to have ah quarters as caretaker but my father was an ambitious man and knew this was a satisfactory plan but you needed to have your roots and roots were acquired by property. He had come from a farm family that owned ground in Brunswick County, Bracey, Virginia, and he was able to save and he sought to purchase the house on 41 Broad Avenue approximately in the year 1931 and everybody will remember Mr. Bauman as a great real estate dealer ah Sec—located in Security Mutual and his wife—his son is now the surgeon Dr. Bauman here locally and ah he found no harm in taking my father's hard earned money that had been saved and purchased 41 Broad Avenue—but it came to the attention of my father that the neighbors in that community wrote a letter to then Mr. Benjamin F. Welden, who was the President of Sisson Brothers, Welden Company. Mrs. Eggleston had been married to Mr. Welden and they had suggested that Mr. Welden would make certain that my father would cease and desist in purchasing the property on 41 Broad Avenue. Well, of course, Mr. Welden had no such plan as my father’s earnings and conserving his savings and ah Mr. Bauman had made the arrangement as a real estate dealer so my parents then did purchase the home. Now we did have some unpleasant circumstances in that neighborhood in that ah people again didn't wish to speak, and I don't know why that was, but when WWII came by—many young men left and went to the Service. My Father was called in the draft but not assigned and people found out what a wonderful man he was because when young sons and young husbands were away, he could help women that were left alone and ah this became very very important for his role in the neighborhood as a caring, loving person. My Mother was rather in a quiet, reserved woman and her whole life was her family and her home and she had it beautiful and that’s what women cared about and they found out that she was just like they were. She did all the things—she baked cookies and she got her daughter ready for Girl Scouts and she sang on the church choir and she went to the ah church association that women went to—the Altar Guild—and ah she my mother always was an employed woman as a team with my father—just so special and so and people had to learn to understand and love people being Black and they had not understood yet—maybe it was their fault. Dan: Umum—have you found things changed now? Barbara: You know, it is rather insidious the way there is still a great deal of misunderstanding for people and people are sort of scrambling for their own rights and not really understanding that you can't have human rights for yourself if you can't have human rights for everybody. I want to talk about having my ah children come to the Public School system of the City of Binghamton. I consider that they got an excellent education because they were both equipped and prepared to go on to the University. Ah my daughters ah both became ah part of the band at North High and Eileen was a Standard Bearer for the banner that said North High Standard Bearer and my daughter Valerie played in the band and came home one day—“I'm not going to do that anymore, I'm going to do that anymore, I’m going to carry the American flag, I'm 5’9”, I’M the tallest girl”—and that gave us great pleasure to see young Black American women walking in front of the band. That only began with the generation that was represented by my daughter. You heard me talking about Mr. Scanks—his daughter Constance really opened that up at North High for young Black women to be a part of that and then ah other young women that came by ah—Kennedy family had a wonderful young daughter that was in that and Mrs. McGill had a young daughter Carmine and these young women—generation with my daughter, just broke that down that at North High. At Central, it was a little different ah Allan Cave was our President or Principal at McArthur School—his sister June was one of the first gym Black women to be ever selected to be Queen of all the students like at the Senior High level ah and that’s a breakthrough. Now sororities, good or bad—young people have them - I don't recommend them because it excludes people but you know young people make that decision and my daughter Eileen pledged for a sorority and didn’t make it and that rather broke her heart because the sorority hadn't taken young Black women in but then they came along with Valerie and Valerie became Miss New York State Teenager and every sorority wanted Valerie. So what she did, she said, “I will pledge if you pledge my sister,” and then that broke that down and then all sororities started pledging and all fraternities started pledging. That passed with children in that generation which was about the year ah let’s see our children should have been pledged in sororities ah—late ’60s and ah it’s hard to understand why young people and older people can't relate—can’t really understand what our goals are which is to be human beings, seek jobs, live a fair honest life of quality, but there is ah some insidious, insidious discrimination in this community that can 't be controlled by Law. Give you an example—my husband going to work at IBM. Now here's a man who's been in the Army 5 years and he's been away at college and he's home with one baby and he wants to start his life again—he is ah 28 years old—not a boy. In the first year he worked at International Business Machines, other than his manager and setup man, men did not say, "Good morning," or ask about the ball scores or, “how is your wife and the baby?” Now that is pretty tough for a man to go do any assignment because you’re awake there more than you are at anyplace else and the way we face this as a team because Neil’s goal at IBM was a cross to bear. Everybody wishes to be liked but his was to do a good job, receive and advance in promotion to provide for his wife and child and that took some doing because Neil, probably if he went now with the opportunities that are at the International Business Machines and their fair employment practice, he would be a manager. He was born too soon for that but it afforded a good living, and later on they began to find out what a magnificent man Cornelius Oldwine was—how well he did his job and how he was always prompt and quiet and prepared and frank—willing to help another man—a caring person and now it’s really different. Dan: Is he still working there? Barbara: Yes—he hasn't retired yet. We started to work very early ah and ah Neil’s 58 but he feels that he will continue to work perhaps until he is 60 or 62 and he, God has been good to us—we are in fine health and he is at the lab in IBM and he loves his job. Similar to my job—now I have been with Social Services ah see if I went in ’46 and this is '78, I have to have 32 years. Dan: 32 years. Barbara: And you know with the Government, after 55 years of age, you can retire but I love my job. Dan : And how old are you Barbara? Barbara: 55. Dan: 55. Barbara: And I feel well respected. Mr. SanFillipo is our current Commissioner, Mr. Dimitri was our immediate past Commissioner and I feel very well respected by the people that I work for and people who work with me and that’s and that’s a privilege. Dan: What’s your, what’s your title with the Social Sec—Social— Barbara: Social Services Department—I'm a Supervisor. Dan: Supervisor. Barbara: But in Medicaid only. Dan: Just for Medicaid? Barbara: Only. Dan: That’s right, I see. Barbara: Big assignment—right? Dan: Sorry—you’re working. Barbara: Yes. Dan: Ah, now when you first went to work there 32 years ago ah how did the ah—Do you know how Social Services began and how it has changed up to the present date, for instance what services were available? Barbara: Well in 1932, under Mr. Robinson as the Commissioner, as I said, Mr. Lounsberry our Mayor, we had all categories which is known as Old Age, Aid to the Blind, Aid to the Disabled and Aid to Dependent Children and of course now you know man—a great deal of that has been transferred and is now in the Social Security system and of course the City of Binghamton was by itself at that time—the Town of Union was alone and Broome County was alone and we had three distinct offices—three distinct commissioners all serving the areas of the County as they did divide employees and then under the direction of Mr. ah Libous, our Mayor, and Mr. Crawford, it was found more at interest of the taxpayers and the serving of the County that we should merge and come under one head and that has been for approximately the past 6 years was one Commissioner and I think they are doing that a lot in Government now, trying to get one head so’s you don’t have it divided because it’s much more economical. Dan: So in other words the funding is under the Broome County. Barbara: It’s now called the Department—the Broome County Department of Social Services rather prior to that it was City of Binghamton, Town of Union and a small section—it was just the town was under Broome County. Dan: Now are you under Federal Regulations? Barbara: Oh yes ah Medicaid is a Federally sponsored program and ah we are reimbursed ah 80% and then 20% from the County and State and some titles are 60-40, 40 you know 60-40 which amounts 20 County 20 State. You know that, you're probably working for the Action for Older Persons—you know there’s quite a bit in the ah funding. Dan: Now have you noticed any change in the attitudes of recipients in the benefits? Barbara: Well I seldom see the applicant now because what has happened is I have been promoted and I'm in administration so I work, I work more with the Social workers than the Examiners but ah the right to receive Public assistance ah the mind of some people is changing all that and I think that came about from the 1937 Social Security Act and the Social Security has moved forward and we've gotten SSI and the people have been included but interesting though ah people still wish to have their right to maintain their own lives and the integrity of being an American citizen or citizen of the United States first—you can decide for yourself and I think respect is still commanded and I wish we were doing more for the older people ah there just doesn't seem to be time and that’s why at Social Services we're so grateful for organizations as Action for Older People and Services for the Aging because we may have the fund but sometimes we don’t have enough people to give the services. Dan: I see ah now could you—I don' t know whether this is outside of your realm or not but do you know how the relocation of the people of Susquehanna Street was accomplished due to Urban Renewal? Barbara: Disaster—absolute disaster. Dan: Absolute disaster—in what respect? Barbara: In the fact that they didn't care about people and l they made promises, promises, promises which you know have never been kept. Dan: Well where have they gone? Barbara: Well fortunately some families were able to buy small modest homes but the promise that they were going to rebuild that area which held many people has never materialized, you know, Woodburn Court, what is it going to have? A few houses now for Senior Citizens and they're not going to take that. Dan: Going to have a big parking lot. Barbara: Well I guess they need that. I feel— Dan: —someplace to put the snow. Barbara: I just feel that that’s devastating and urban renewal has done that throughout this country to minority persons and poor people and I they have warehoused them and ah we haven't been responsive as citizens to people who—the house might not have met the standards for somebody who was doing urban planning but it had roots and growth and love and care and the curtains may have needed to have been mended but it was starched. It was beautiful and you could sit around and have your coffee or your tea or your cakes and where we sat people—I think we are moving over to the mausoleums—don't start me on that—I feel terrible about it. Dan: OK, I won't pursue that any further ah now I think you will agree with me Barbara, that ah we're living in a promiscuous society today with ah young couples living together without regard for marriage. Barbara: Well I think that’s the at—you know my feelings are. Dam: No. Barbara: I—“promiscuous” is your adjective. Dan: Right. Barbara: Not one I would use because that says that I'm placing a value judgment on someone else’s decision. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And one of the things that has been a tenet in my life—that I may have a standard set for Barbara Oldwine and I may wish to keep that high—then it becomes a standard that Cornelius and I set together—a family standard and I wish to transfer that and the beauty of that in the growth of my Church and the love of my community to my daughters but I have never felt that I could place a value judgment on someone else's decision so I, I totally using that adjective. Dan: You don't like that. Barbara: No I can't use—well it's all right for you, I, I would defend with my life your right to use it. Dan: Uh huh—well the only, the only reason I asked is that in such an arrangement of two people living together and one—say the girl becomes pregnant and the boy figures that “I've had enough,” and he moves out—has this had a bearing on the welfare rolls? Barbara: I think a lot of people want to think that but I don’t think that’s ah been ah documented and we just want to look at that like that and are not really willing to look at why we have increased the people that have support and assistance in our society and the reason we have increased is that we are in such a high society of technology that people would, could come to America and not speak English but could become a farmer or do the hardest labor on the railroad or become construction people and not need all this refinement—they could go ahead and build from the bootstrap. All that has disappeared and it’s I think it’s the technology of this country that it constantly, you goad the simple jobs that people could get that didn’t have a lot of training and this is why we are in a great bit of difficulty of people not being able to find work and the other thing I think that I’m not sure that people still care about people, that we are really serving, want to help. We're a society that’s always proved ourselves, that always have to have someone as an underdog on the bottom—stepping on them. We proved that when we went to Vietnam, we proved that when we had the Civil War, so I really don’t want to talk about a person's decision to share their life with another person and create a life, which is an act of God, and then decide that they can’t face that responsibility means that the welfare rolls have increased, because I don't know that, because there are women who have been left alone where this decision has been made, have gone on and done great things and provided for that young life that they created and that they decided to keep. So we don't have the statistics. Dan: You don't have the statistics? Barbara: No and we mustn't draw that out as that’s the reason. I feel the welfare rolls have increased because technology of this country has moved simple jobs out of the contact for people, you know we are not educating people to get the technological jobs—there are more people than there are jobs. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And every time you, say, put it on a printout—use it on a computer, maybe you eliminate an individual who maybe could have done a simple job. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And we're starting to warehouse people and that’s very frightening and I don't think we should base it on what the moral decision is. The fact that as human beings, we can't cast the first stone against someone else's decisions because if we had done that ah God would never have been close to Mary Magdalene. Dan: Umum. Barbara: And He loved this woman and reminded us, be without sin ourselves before we cast the first stone. But when He went to the well for the water, the woman said to Him, “Why do you ask me to fill the pitcher to serve you?” because she was different in Gentile and Jew and He didn't care. He was going to drink from the pitcher that would be sweet because it had been blessed out. Dan: Umum—now what clubs have you belonged to Barbara? Barbara: OK—I feel very privileged to say that I am a Life Member of American Association of University Women and I have served as a Secretary for that organization and then I'm proud to say I’m a member of Semper Fidelis, which was founded by Mrs. Beccye Fawcett—this is part of the National Negro Conference of Women who are original founders with Mary McCloud McLew—a beautiful woman who established Bethune-Cookman College on nothing—what an inspiration—and then ah I'm a member and ah immediate Past President of Broome County Urban League Guild, a member of the Monday Afternoon Club—that was an exciting thing. The Monday Afternoon Club was 100 years old. These beautiful women decided that all women should have a right to belong to that organization and ah you know at Monday Club, you have to be sponsored by a woman and then two women cosponsored you and Mrs. Fawcett and I were both selected and I have loved my association with these women—there is so much beauty there and of course you know our home has been listed as ah one of the outstanding architectural homes in this country—in the State—it was owned by Mr. Phelps first and there is a lot of loving, caring there for women and we do a lot of great things there. Dan: It was owned by Mr. Phelps? Barbara: Yes. Dan: Is it the banker? Barbara: I'm not quite sure. Dan: E.Z. Phelps? Barbara: I think so—that’s in the history, all right and then ah lets see. Dan: You belong to—do you still belong to Episcopal— Barbara: Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church—oh I was baptized there and now it’s really wonderful. Neil and I were married there. Our daughter Valerie was married there and we baptized her first baby there. Dan: Yeah—how many children do you have? Barbara: I have just Eileen, my oldest daughter, who is associated with the ah State Department in Washington as a Foreign Service officer. Dan: Wonderful. Barbara: Really exciting job and of course we have our daughter Valerie Oldwine Barnes who is married to John C. Barnes with their little daughter Amera and of course you know the new baby is coming any day. Dan: Yes (laughter). Barbara: We were rather delayed with this and John and Valerie are both associated with IBM as her father is. Dan: Well that’s fine. Barbara: I must tell you about Valerie—she’s 29 and she’s a manager of Finance in the Lab and I’ll tell you a little about the girls’ education, if I may. Dan: Surely. Barbara: Eileen went to Fisk University. Dan: Your Alma Mater. Barbara: My Alma Mater so that’s always very important for Mother and then she went on to go to the University of Michigan to do her Masters in Public Health Administration. Valerie chose to go to Howard University, then she went on to do her Masters at the Wharton School of Finance at University of Pennsylvania. I’d like to point out here that my daughter selected the predominantly Black University for the undergraduate program. Having been raised in Binghamton, they had not had a great deal of opportunity to associate with the peer group because our population here you know is very small—approximately now about 3000, which is a small number in the total community and both girls needed that kind of identity and we feel very fortunate that they were able to obtain that in ’59 then when they were ready to go further into their development professionally. They then sought the University that would offer the ah choice Degree for which they settled and ah we're really excited when we say Valerie finished Wharton because it is—she was one of the first 10 Black women to receive her India World honor. Dan: I see—OK she went on for further studies at Wharton. Barbara: Yes the MBA Wharton School of Finance, University of Pennsylvania and it has been a great deal to her career and ah it’s interesting to know all industry is accepting women and men and giving them promotions based on ability and that’s what this is all about. Dan: So ah in Beccye Fawcett’s mind, anyone who has the education and the opportunity, can go out and get a job—no matter what the color of his skin is today—right? Barbara: Well I guess there you know—nothing can be overall and a lot of young Black people will feel that they may get in the door and that’s a very important step, getting in the door. Now we have to worry about where they're going once they're in the door—are they going to move up? We have to acknowledge that in bib business and in finance, we don't have too many Bank Presidents yet who are Black and we don't have too many high level managers ah who are Black and this is still the goal that young Black people are trying for—ah Patricia Harris, who is in the Cabinet with ah Mr. ah Carter—she’s an exception. Vernon Jordan directs the Urban League—outstanding man now—I can’t think of the young woman that was just appointed as the Executive Director for National Planned Parenthood—but she's 34, she’s from Dayton, Ohio and she’s going to earn $7,000 a year. She was a nurse first and then got her M.Ph in Ohio. Now our young Black people are having to really strive to get promotions and move into the top level of management. We’re faced with the Backey case for admission to the ah medical schools, which is being heard by the Supreme Court, because if they're talking about reverse discrimination, Civil Rights have to look at that. I believe in preparing but they're, they're still a fuzzy area. Ah I'm not satisfied that it’s a—besides it not all to a degree for anybody anymore—one is this technology that is requiring more and more training. Why don’t, why don’t white or black interests think of the number of teachers that are just not admitted to the school districts because we don’t have the money—we're cutting down, we're consolidating Junior children. Dan: We have declining enrollment at the moment. Barbara: Right. Dan: Right—well Barbara, is there anything else that you would like to add? Barbara: Well I would like to stress that I ah feel that education and preparedness should play a great part in the lives of people but there has to be a certain amount of human understanding and we have to transcend that and have people recognize people for the working people and it’s going to be very difficult in this society for what I call the dominant part of the society which is the white American male to understand that perhaps he is going to be threatened by the Black American and by women. He has always been the Chairman of the Board—that he is going to have to move over to make room. Dan: So you're an advocacy of women’s rights. Barbara: Oh definitely. Dan: OK, I’m not going to dispute that either. (laughter). Barbara: Thank you Dan—well what do you think? Dan: Fine—do you want me to turn it off and I’ll turn—play it back for you? Barbara: Oh to hear a little bit of it, I don't need to hear it all. [PAUSE ON TAPE] Dan: Can you tell me any special honors you have received as a citizen of the community, Barbara? Barbara: Well I think the most beautiful honor I have received was at the time of the Bicentennial and I was selected by the commission to be Woman of the Year for the City of Binghamton and that meant a great deal to me because it was based on my contribution to the community as a loving, caring person and I think it was afforded to me because of my work with ah the United Way—I've been on the Board of Directors there and ah I've been on the Board of Directors for Planned Parenthood and at the present time, I'm a national Board member for the YWCA of America—have 91 women on that governing Board and reach that plateau because the women of your own community nominate you for the work you have done and my work with the “Y” here. I was the President of the Board of Directors so none of these things would have been possible for me if the people of the community hadn’t respected me and knew that we cared about each other. Dan: Thank you Barbara. Barbara: OK. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Barbara Oldwine Subject The topic of the resource Oldwine, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Fisk University; African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Social workers -- Interviews; Race discrimination; American Association of University Women; Young Women's Christian Association Description An account of the resource Barbara Oldwine talks about her life in Binghamton, NY beginning with her childhood, her education at Fisk University, and her position with the Department of Social Services. She discusses her working experiences, the merger of welfare facilities, and her husband's experience at IBM. She discusses her views on racial discrimination in education and work fields, as well as the discrimination her family was subjected to. She discusses her community activity, such as the Urban League, American Association of University Women, Planned Parenthood and the YWCA. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 45A ; Recording 45B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Oldwine, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 37:47 Minutes ; 15:05 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0b036aa709027d62ffc94983e980e496.mp3 0a72b745cf136821f127f2341fc6852a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-03-03 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:02 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55919">Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus</a> Subject LCSH Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 3 March 1978 Jenny: I came here in 1914, I was about 12 years old and I came to Ellis Island. They kept me there for three days until my aunt put up a $500 bond for me— Anna: Go on. Jenny: —Then I came here, then I went to school for a while and I liked it, and I said, “I'm going to work for Endicott Johnson,” and I started working. I was 14 years old in E.J., then I went to the cigar factory for $2.00 a week, and I was doing a little housework for 50 cents a week and it was, kind of hard, so then—what do you want me to say? Anna: Where. Jenny: I worked in the shoe factory, then when the work was slow I went to the cigar factory. It wasn’t hard to get a job. When it was bad in the cigar factory we went back to the shoe factory and work like that, and I was young, I got married and then I had the children one after the other, but I was working in E.J. Anna: How many children did you have? Jenny: Four children, and well, we had to go to work for 8 and 9 dollars a week. That, and then my husband died, I was 28 years old and I had 4 small children, then I was working, and then I got so sick that the doctor put me out from the factory, and so I make a living home. I had baseball players, roomers, and took care of the kids on the street, and made a living like that, and everything. I was a widow for 14 years, and I got married again, and then I had operations, one after the other, and have half of my stomach out and all those things, and a Pacemaker, and now they took my both feet off, amputated, and I—one was maybe below the knee at two year ago. And a year ago they had to take the other one off, so I am in a nursing home paying $2500 a month. Is it going? Anna: Yes, go on. Jenny: It was kinda hard and it is hard now, I had one boy that was killed in 1942, in a car accident with another boy, and then my other son died, was 49 years old. I have one son in Arizona. A daughter is here living on Front Street, and she's not well either, she don’t come up to see me much, she can’t. And well, I'm in a bed most of the time, and in a wheelchair. They put me on about 1:30 and then I stay in the wheelchair about 2 hours or so, and then they put me back in bed, and so I'm in bed most of the time. Anna: You were saying that you liked sports. Jenny: Baseball. I used to have the baseball players living up to my house, and I used to cook for them and do their washing, and then they had a write-up about the baseball park, how they—once in a while I went to the ballgames, and they had fights there. And wrestling, I used to like to go and see that, and I play Bingo a lot. Even we play Bingo every Monday here. (Cough). Anna: And when you were young, what did you do for amusement? Jenny: I didn't have time, I had washing and then ironing to do all the time. Anna: Did you ever go dancing? Jenny: No, I didn’t. I would sneak out and I went to Bingo. Anna: Did you ever go to Ross Park, or to the band concert? Jenny: No, I didn't have time for that. I used to play Bingo. I used to take care of the children and the chickens, and garden and canning, all day. Anna: How much did you can every year? Jenny: About one thousand quarts, everything from the garden—pear trees, cherry trees. Anna: That’s the way people lived those days. Jenny: Yes, those days that’s the way you did. We didn't make much money. It was better for me to stay home than have somebody to take care of the children and I every way, different ways. Anna: Your children are all grown up, anyway. Jenny: Now, yes, one son is in Arizona, going to have open heart surgery, yes, and I don’t know when, maybe next week, someday. Anna: Could you remember, think of anything else? Jenny: No, was busy all the time with cooking and baking, and I worked in the Johnson City Legion for about seven years, had had charge of the kitchen there and I worked there for fifty cents an hour. Anna: Can you think of anything else? Jenny: No, that’s it. Anna: Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Subject The topic of the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Description An account of the resource Jenny Tokos Gaidorus talks about immigrating through Ellis Island and then moving to Johnson City, NY where she worked in a cigar factory and the Endicott Johnson Corporation. She discusses being a widow and raising her children alone. She supported herself by renting rooms in her house to baseball players. She discusses her medical conditions and operations she underwent, which resulted in moving into a nursing home. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 25 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-03 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 24:02 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8f7c008bfe576da0c3e5a436e77c9ca4.mp3 297878bc8dd73fafb2c5b74afa68be52 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56107">Interview with Dr. John P. Ayers, Veterinarian</a> Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ayres, John P. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-04 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Ayres, John P. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Veterinarians -- Interviews; Farmers -- Interviews; Corbettsville (N.Y.); Agriculture; Food Quality Control Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:16 minutes Biographical Text Dr. John P. Ayres talks about his upbringing in Corbettsville, NY, his interests in agriculture and animals in young age that led him to succeed in the fields of farming and veterinary work. He discusses his experiences in the Army, college, and his professional life. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Language English Material Type Sound OHMS Object URL https://omeka.binghamton.edu/viewer/viewer.php?cachefile=Ayers.xml Interview Format Video or Audio audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. John P. Ayres Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 4 March 1978 Susan: Dr. Ayres, could you start by telling us where you were born, something of your parents and, ah, your early childhood experiences, and then go on with your schooling and how you became a veterinarian? Dr. Ayres: I was born in, ah, Broome County, in Corbettsville, NY, Snake Creek Road, which in those days was a dirt road, and my father didn't own the farm that I was born on, so I presume that makes me a tenant farmer’s son, which seem to make for great relationships and rapport with some people. However, my father had the determination that someday he would own that farm, and he did own the farm and today I own the farm, which is the story that, ah, goes with the majority of people in this country. Ah, my mother was orphaned at—at sixteen and she had, ah, five younger brothers and sisters and, ah, she went to work and supported them and held her family together in turn, so I was therefore blessed with two people that were ideal for parents, because my father was a strong, steady, determined individual, in a rural atmosphere, and had a—had a very happy boyhood on the farm, perhaps the happiest days of my life, and again I emphasize, as a tenant farmer’s son, because ah, having lived 60-plus years I find out that the biggest asset is not being left with money, but being left with pride and responsibility to this government, that we live and enjoy and have the opportunity to develop ourselves to our maximum, and my parents strongly believed that and in those days the farm we had, ah, was primarily a dairy farm, a small dairy farm of a hundred seventy-five acres. Our house had at least four if not five bedrooms, as I recall, and we were, had none of the niceties that we reflect on today. We had three stoves that burned wood, that was our only source of heat and therefore, of course they went out at night and it was a question of my father getting up, perhaps at 4:30 in the morning, as I recall, and getting the first stove started, and then the rest of us coming down one by one and, ah, entering into it. Having no heat in the house, obviously we had no running water. The well for the house was thirty feet from the house, and that was partly the responsibility of us children, to bring the water in—in pails, and the warm water was heated on the tank on the side of the stove, as I recall, and that took care of the acid, of getting the water in. The waste material of the body, the toilet was the common standard privy at the time. It was located twenty feet from the rear of the house, and everything that James, ah, Whitcomb Riley, as I recall he wrote a piece of poetry on “The Passing of the Backhouse,” and that is, ah, one that certainly fills the bill and describes it as accurately as any farmer’s son could. We—ah, my brothers and I had—we were blessed with two brothers and two sisters. We all went to the Corbettsville school, which was a two-room schoolhouse—one floor above the other, and it still stands and is now a residence—and I think that was the first time I realized that I was handicapped. I was handicapped in being left-handed and had a schoolteacher who had one thought, that I would become right-handed and it was a question of wills, and I'm still left-handed today, but I well remember her hitting with the ruler, hitting my left hand with the ruler when I'd use it, and I lived long enough to tell her when I was a fairly successful doctor that—that was the only thing I regretted of that period in school, that she had many valuable assets, but her determination to break me was probably only exceeded by my determination that I wouldn't be broken. That was my first handicap, and there came a time, then, when we left there and moved into Binghamton and left the farm behind, and my father went to work because he couldn't buy that farm for another man at a dollar a day. I remember his wages were a dollar a day, and he was considered to work for that a minimum of ten hours each day, so it was about ten cents an hour he got. Obviously, living in Binghamton and working outside was something couldn't successfully for him, and so he located a job in Kirkwood and operated a feed and coal supply that, ah, took care of the people in the Village of Kirkwood and the farmers throughout there, and it probably was the best thing that period in my life, because again I mention I was blessed with a farmer who could be a businessman, who never thought this country owed him a living. He was grateful for what it offered and he imbued that to us, that we had the opportunity to achieve whatever we wanted. That was a period somewhere between 1925 and 1930 that we were there, and that, in that period, I had many friends there, and I want to emphasize that because I still have, ah, but the outstanding unfortunate thing that happened to me there was in the Kirkwood school, which again was a two room school. I went there and I was the only Catholic boy in eight grades when Al Smith dared to run for President, and I still carry one of the scars over my eye from the beatings I used to take because a Catholic dared to run for President. I laugh now when people tell about minorities and their problems. I don't know what they would do if they were the one in the entire school, ah, but the challenge was there, and today I say, “God Bless it,” because it's the challenges that makes us if we have the guts to rise above them, because of the ones that attacked me in those days, we all lived to forget, though—that period, most of us were kids, we were all kids. We really didn't know what the whole problem was about. It was only what, we were getting it at home and it was through ignorance that we were receiving it, and my side of the question wasn't, of course, was, ah, that someday there was going to be a Catholic President, and I've lived long enough to see one and I'd have to admit that I didn't vote for him when he ran. I—I was one that voted for Richard Nixon [in 1960], so you see, the years have worn off the antagonism that might have developed in my mind so that I would’ve blindly voted for the man of my religion, and instead I voted against him. And of many of those that perhaps were pretty unfriendly at that period, I lived to do their veterinary work, which I think is a challenge to many of us, to overcome the difficulties that we have in our youth. Then I went on from Kirkwood and my father bought the farm I was born on and we went back, we turned to the farm, and from there I—I gradually formed the opinion I would become a veterinarian those years, even when my father had this feed business. I was out working and I bought a horse for eighteen dollars—I bought a horse for eighteen dollars—and I agreed to work for the man eighteen days, and when my father looked over the horse he told me, as a good father should, “You got the horse in effect without my advice. It's not worth bringing it home.” The horse lasted a few months, lasted such a short time that I hadn't earned the payment on the farmer’s farm for it, and my father insisted that I go there after the horse was dead and work it out with the farmer. It was a humiliating thing, but it was the best thing happened to me. If you give a man your word, you keep your word. If you buy something, good or bad, you’re stuck with it. There is no whining, no whimpering or crying out, and I look back and I think that was my first real business transaction that was a complete flop, but I had two parents and neither one relented. I had to go there and pick potatoes in the fields in the fall after the horse was dead until I paid for a dead horse, and so I thoroughly understand the expression about buying a dead horse because I bought one almost dead, with that I formed my opinion on there ought to be a better way to do business that I had done, and I—I think it was a beginning of a challenge to me, because I think each one of these, ah, strengthens my determination to do more. I had dogs in those days, and cats, I always had them as a boy, and ah, we were impoverished, ah, not with the point of pity do I say, but it wasn't considered practical and it wasn't practical to take the dog to a veterinarian in, in those days. So I had a dog with distemper in that town of Kirkwood, and I went and talked with the man about it and he gave me some sulfur to give the dog and he knew it would cure the dog, and well, the dog would throw up, I guess every time I'd push the sulfur down the poor dog, and eventually the dog had fits—he had repeated fits in our home—and the man was corning along that I had talked to, and he was carrying his gun, and I remember as a boy him opening the bedroom window, saying, “That dog has rabies,” and shooting it and splattering the brains over the wall of the bedroom. Of course the dog had distemper and, ah, I guess that again fortified my there must be a better way than this, and— Then we went back to the farm and I raised rabbits. My brothers and I had, at one time, over a hundred rabbits, and we got into other things that—raising calves, and of course we had dairy cattle, and in that transition on the farm from being born there and then coming back years later, I reflect on what a vast difference, how things were changing—when we left that farm we had no running water, we had no inside toilets in the house. We were cold in the winter, we, ah, we had an old broken down car when we left the farm. It was a used car. In the winter when we needed water for the cattle we had a stream, there was a little stream, there was a pipe, brought water outside the barn. The cows would go out to drink, and the pipe would freeze in the winter, so you would have to go down to Snake Creek and cut a hole and drive the cows down through the snow, and they'd slide on the ice and I—I just can't remember any of our cattle breaking legs there, but how many, many cattle I saw afterward did break their legs on the ice trying to get out to drink water where the holes had been cut for them—then when we returned to the farm, all that had changed. We put in a heat within the house, got a new well, added inside plumbing so that my poor mother, for the first time on that farm ever, had running water. We had the same thing at the barn, a well, drinking buckets for the cows, metal stanchions, and the biggest thing of all from the standpoint of quality of milk—and even we could detect that—was, for the first time, we really had electricity and we had the means of quick refrigeration of milk so that we had quality milk. When we left the farm in the summer we had to get ice out of our icehouse that had been put there the previous winter, that we had put there, by cutting it off of the Susquehanna River and hauling it up on big sleighs with the horse. The farmers got together, pooled their efforts and brought this ice home, and then it was covered with sawdust, and then in the summer, piece by piece, it was taken out. It was cleaned off, as best one could, of the sawdust, and put in water to chill the milk down instead—in that period of time of change we had, it was the beginning of quality controlled milk and we had inspectors coming to the farm and the improvement in milk rapidly following. One of my memories there, however, was again the question of veterinary services and a dog I had that would never stay home. He was probably the stud dog of the town of Conklin, and at my end I guess I was sort of proud of him, ’cause he took on many a dog and whipped them. He also got into a bit of trouble, too, of course, got me in and therefore got my family in, and so my family made arrangements for me to take the dog with my oldest brother to this man—now long since dead, so I guess I could tell the story on how the operation, how that dog was castrated—and he took the dog into the barn and he wrapped a chain around the dog's mouth and he told my brother to hold that, and he took out his jackknife and then he deliberately sharpened while I was watching him, and then he just cut the testicles off. There was no tying off blood vessels or nothing, and that dog lingered along for perhaps three or four days before he finally bled to death at our home, and I watched it each day, and my parents didn't know but they thought there was something wrong, but they thought that man had more experience and he assured them that the bleeding would stop, well, it didn't fix it at all. The dog bled to death. So I think that was the final straw in in that aspect of my thinking there must be a better way to do this, and it sort of convinced me that, ah, I was going to do a little more with that, even though I would talk to people about becoming a lawyer, and in due time I went to Cornell, and then I was trying to get one year in and my father had a stroke. He was confined to a wheelchair from then on. The Depression was on us and there was no question about, ah, help in those days. There was no tuition assistance program and again I say, “Thank God there was no tuition assistance program.” I have little respect for the present-day college students who whine for extra money when there are jobs available all over the county for them. I was successful in the veterinarian college. I was given a room in the basement to live in, and I worked for 40¢ an hour and I used to have to sit up nights, watch the mares have colts, and I cleaned laboratory equipment and so forth, and I worked my way through college and I—I came home rarely, because as I say, I, my pride had then, I think, equalled my parents’. I wouldn't ask them for a penny, because I knew they had all the struggling they could trying to maintain the homestead, and with my father in a wheelchair and confined. I learned at that point in life when he had this stroke that—it was interesting, that everyone my father owed money to had it well-documented, people who owed my father, and I knew they did even from the days in the feed business, he didn't have it well-tallied, and many of the people I think owed him never paid him. I think, again, it sort of toughened me to realize life was that way. In fact, I remember one man, he said he owed my father and he said he wanted to work it out in plowing, and he came to our farm and he plowed until he thought the bill was square, and at that time, nor until the time he died, no one ever knew how much he owed my father, and he wouldn't tell us and we didn't know, but it was a question. My father was primarily a dairy man and a smalltime, ah, fellow in this market that we call this outside world, and he wasn't able to cope, so financially, we weren't in a good, ah, set of financial circumstances, not because he didn't work, but because he didn't realize that everything had to be documented. He was, at that point, not businesslike enough in case of catastrophe, which we've all learned we have to be, but it did provide a good basis for me to realize that if I was going to make it at Cornell, I was going to make it on my own, and I did, and I remember the high point of my life in that was when I came home and I gave my mother three hundred dollars, besides going through college, and then I went to New York and worked, and in due time I worked in dog and cat hospitals, and then I came back and went to work for the Dairymen's League—[Clock chimes]---which was a milk company, and I worked for them two years until the Army called me up, and I was five years in the Army. Then I came home and became City Veterinarian of Binghamton, and in that period I had seen the transition, the change that had gone on again, and of course I was then completely on the other side. I was no longer someone from off the farm. I was then a man that had become a doctor of veterinary medicine and served in the ranks of the Army in quality control of foods in general, from the state of Maine to Florida and as far west as Michigan. I served in ranks of Lieutenant and Captain and Major and Lt. Colonel—ah, in fact, when I came home from the Army I was Chief Veterinarian in the First Air Force and I was the youngest veterinarian in it, and the Chief, so I came home with that kind of background to bring about quality control of foods in general in the City of Binghamton and the farms that supplied milk to the city and the milk plants, and found myself pitted to some degree against many of my former acquaintances—I use “acquaintances” rather than “friends” because I, ah—some of them didn't accept change, men who get older, I guess many men don't accept change, especially coming from a younger person—but I remained a city veterinarian for fourteen years before I went with the State. I saw all the changes come about. I saw rabies so bad in Broome County in 1947 that we had over 50 cases of rabies in the city of Binghamton in July of 1947, and I can say in 1977 we didn't have a single case in the city, and the few cases that we do have outside of the city are generally attributed to wildlife, where I'm sure rabies will always exist, but by vaccinations we eliminate that, so that three quarters of the veterinarians in the county have never seen a case of rabies. They talk about it, and we know it's there in wildlife, but we just don't see it. That was accomplished by the use of vaccination, and the same thing is true with the dogs, but I've experienced—in treating my own dog in Kirkwood with distemper and using sulfur, it merely made the dog vomit and had him shot in the head in my bedroom—has changed now by the advent of vaccination, so that no dog need die of distemper, it's a question of, perhaps, our failure to get to the people that can do it. On the other hand, I do think there was a—a stronger character in the people then—if they couldn't afford a veterinarian, they said they couldn't—today many people want the dogs, or want the children, and yet they don't want what goes with them, and so it is part of the work and the responsibility that goes with having pets or having children, you have to have enough responsibility to be willing to sacrifice for them, and sacrifice isn't done by an expression of words, but by acts. Susan: Let's continue, Dr. Ayres, by telling us something about the women in your life. Dr. Ayres: Well, the women in my life start with my mother, and my mother was a school teacher, and in those days it took two short winter courses to become a school teacher and one stayed ahead of one’s students, I believe, and therefore she was the one that instilled into us education was the only way to get ahead in this country, that was the, ah, the best and logical course of events. I can remember when I would be losing the rounds while Al Smith ran for President, this mother of mine’d tell me at home how I could overcome them, and that was only one way, by education, and my mother was proud in the sense of real pride, but she knew that success for our family meant being a partner to my father, and she was that, and many a night and many a morning my mother was with us milking the cows, which today might sound degrading, but my mother, she was the best. Then the next woman in my life was my wife, and my wife, thank God, was a nurse. She was of the generation when the nurse had all the basic training that was needed to inculcate in her mind the willingness to, ah, take care of the patient in all events, so—so it really did never seem to me a difference whether the patient was a human or an animal, and I've been privileged, as a result of having such a partner, to have my practice always contiguous to my house. When I had a heavy practice and my wife could advise the owners of animals as well as I could, and many times, I've had to admit, much better. She had a charm that I didn't have, because I was of the generation that, ah, was pretty practical, and you had to tell someone very bluntly whether the animal would make it or not, and there was an economic value on animals in a large animal practice that there isn't on a small animal practice. My wife had the right background by becoming a nurse, and my wife is first generation from Lithuania. Her father came from Lithuania and crossed over the border and got away from the Russians who had engulfed, ah, Lithuania years ago, as they again did after World War II, and that little country, like the little country that my people immigrated from, Ireland, has stood the mistreatment of a larger power all the time, and my mother dwelt much on history and pride, family loyalty, and knew that her people had come from Nova Scotia and she carefully documented what little knowledge she had, sufficient that even though she never knew her relatives in Nova Scotia, nor did her father before her know the relatives in Nova Scotia, with what she had documented I was able, after a hundred-plus years, to locate relatives in Nova Scotia and develop a genealogy and have composed and written a twelve-page booklet on my relatives from the time that they appeared in Nova Scotia in about the year of 1800. Last fall my wife and I went to Ireland and tried to establish connections there, but in a country that, ah, 50% were either starved to death or forced into immigration by the horrendous laws of England, ah, it is very hard to establish much on genealogy—however, we are pursuing it and we'll follow along on that. But prior to that time, even before I retired and became, in the present-day terminology, the “double dipper”—because, ah, I did continue my Army career in reserve and I continued my work for New York State until I achieved a pension in both, ah, I have kept my private practice—but I did start with my children and, I have a boy and a girl and I started taking them, first to Puerto Rico, and I went on a group tour and promptly left the tour and took my children down to the most godforsaken areas that existed in old San Juan and so forth, where people were living in tin shacks under lean-tos, et cetera, that they had never seen before, and from there we continued taking various trips to Spain, Mexico and Italy, ah, primarily for the children by that time, and I thought back of, ah, when we stood at Rome—when my mother made one trip, and that was into Canada, she always asked me, sometime before I die, to make a trip to Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré Shrine in Canada, little thinking I'd get to the Vatican first—then, ah, my daughter followed the image of her mother, I think, and was inclined at times to become a nurse, but she went into Languages in the SUNY system and she went through college, and in the summer she has worked, just like my son that's in Pre-Med, he worked the last two summers at General Hospital, and again, thank God he started the first summer in the laundry room and I was pleased when his boss told me that fall—that fall he was through, he told me, that's where every doctor ought to start, down there where the towels came down with the blood and fecal deposits and pieces of bones and everything else that goes with a hospital come down, the laundry room, and I think too many people rise too fast out of the basement of life and not realize what's down there, so I was pleased when he got that job, and then last summer he worked as an orderly in General Hospital, and I think that he has now an awareness of, if he is gonna become a medical doctor, of the basic thing that goes with it, the understanding that goes with it, and of course he had all the years with me, because my practice being next to my home, he was able to render first aid, and both of my children helped me on caesarean sections and so forth—rubbed the little puppies and kittens, ah, from the minute they were brought life on into them, when they were overwhelmed with disease or need patrician or something, so they both had the opportunity to learn, and I look back at my life now and reflect on the terrible situation that so many children come up in—the terrible situation of not knowing how their parents make money—not knowing what makes this country tick—and I think they've have had that opportunity. I thank God that they've had as much as they have had, that they realize how money came in this house and how it went out of this house because the business was, ah, contiguous to it, and in so many lives today the check comes in once or twice a month and it has to do, therefore there is a price paid for it. The price is that while we probably have now the most intelligent people graduating from our schools, they may also be the most immature. Susan: That about sums it up, doesn't it? Dr. Ayres: In retirement I enjoy every day, and like any doctor I think I'll probably continue practicing until I cross the divide, if God gives me the strength. Susan: Well, thank you, Dr. Ayres, it's been nice of you to take time out from your busy life to talk with us. Thank you. Date of Digitization 2016-01-28 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John P. Ayres Subject The topic of the resource Ayres, John P. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Veterinarians -- Interviews; Farmers -- Interviews; Corbettsville (N.Y.); Agriculture; Food Quality Control Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 1 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ayres, John P. ; Dobandi, Susan Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-01-28 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:16 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f56fb6173268435ba1e46feb34826063.pdf 9ba50e40e7c67035e91ce2b86ff4452e PDF Text Text /1.ctio:1 for ,l.l�'...::r Pcr,;0:1:;, I.1c. j";roo:·'.2 Cou:1c,.- ,:curt :.o,r:,:, :'.:- .. Court . . rl 11:. 2 S •! 1, .11· 2 �i11":1:u1to!l, .:2·,· Yor·:: lJ '"l Tc:le:1irn:1c: (:,,J7) 72'.2-·1'2)1 Jf'Ju.. i.lSTO?,Y PJWG:'J1.: i Jurin� the -:-iast ye2.r, )'OU \/ere intervic,,c.! '.:>:• c1 !'erson froiJ our vr::il Li.story I'ro:_:;ram, so th£1t 2 tape r<Jcorcin:3 of vour recollections could be ::.1a<le. ·i·:1e t.:ircs Fill be c1vailablc for ye.:irs to co!'ie to per:,ons u::JcrstancJ nor2 about ,:;;.:it life uas like ::Jec.:1cJcs ;:i�o. 11:10 ·,->is11 to · ,_, :1re pL:i:1ni:1 n to place t:1esc tape rccordin::;s, along \·Jith 1.-rittcn Lr.:.1scri;)ts of ti1�1�, at tlic library of s 1 ·:r{/�in::;r1.1,.1ton anG at t!1c �rom1e Countv liistorical Sl)ciety. '..;ould you ;:indly si::;n and retur:1 to us the .:iutnoriz.::i tion i:or111 helon _ o that ,;e u;:iy co this, anC: �o t:1at ot:1ers P1ay benefit fro:J l1earin: t'.1cse il'lport;:int recon.lin�,s. Plense enclose tl1is s;1eet of paper in the return cnv�2.ope t:1::it 2.cco11:).Jnics t:1is letter. T'nan'.-: you a�ain for your '.:illin::;ness to pnrticipate in this pro�r.:1::1. ;', , ... I '.1crcu:' outhorize i'.ction for Older Persoi1S to nl2cc t·:1e recorJinG of TJ)' coi1versi:'ltion r.1.:1ue ,mJcr the Oral i:istory Pro3raE1 ;it local lil>r.:1ries, so that "j t ::1c1:• i)_ listcncC: to (or t:1e transcript read) bv persons uis:iin� to .�now ·.,\ire :10out Lie iiistory of our ar<:'.a. (Date) (,'\._ ·\\.,V\. [� J _1 ' • I �ACTION FOR OLDER PERSONS Broome County Oral History Project March 6, 1978 ABSTRACT Mrs. Anna Borsuk was born in 1891 in Pittsburgh Penn. Spent her early years growing up in Pennsylvania then came to Binghamton in 1915. She worked in hotels as a waitress and all around girl, i1ent to work in a hotel in New York City while there learned the beauty parlor business and opened one of the first beauty parlors in Bing hamton in the Press Building. Waving. Her salon was the first to have Marcel She also ran a tourist house. She mentions her poor health suffering from tuberculosis and her struggle to raise her son alone. She also mentions the help from welfare later in her life and the kindness of the people from urban renewal in relocating her in an apartment at the highrise for the elderly at 24 Isbell St., Binghamton, New York. �ACTION for Older Persons 1 Inc. Broome County Court House, Room 307 Court House Square, Binghamton, New York 13901 Telephone (607) 722-1251 BROOME COUNTY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interview Transcription Interviewer: Date: 3/6/78 Susan Dobandi Address: Person Interviewed: Address: Tape No.: 295 Front St., Binghamton N. Y. Miss Anna Horsuk 24 Isabell St., Binghamton N. Y. Date of Birth or approximate age: 87 This is Susan Dobandi interviewer and I'm talking with Miss Anna Borsuk who lives at 24 Isabell St., Binghamton, N. Y. The date is Mar. 6, 1978. ( Anna, Could you tell us something about your early beginnings where you were born, any recollections of your childhood? ) Anna: Yes, I can - I can remember bh from the age of 5 ·or 6 I guess I remember. ( Where were you born?) Anna: I was born in Pittsburgh Pa. - - We moved from there to Mayfair, Penn. and I was I guess I must have been 8 or 9 years old. From there we moved again to Carbondale, Penn. and I started to work in a hotel. I was there 5 years as a waitress and all around girl. - - I'm ahead of my story but lets see I got married before I started working at the hotel. �Anna Borsuk Page 2 I was married when I was sixteen years old and a I had my son, my son and then when he was a year and a half old I left and went to the hotel. I went to work as a waitress and I was there 5 years and I met some good friends there who were salesman - saw how hard D worked and how much money I was making and they felt sorry for me and I in the meantime my mothers and fathers home burned down and they lost everything and I felt very badly while I was working some of the guests noticed me that I felt badly and they asked why I was upset and I told them that we had lost our home. We lost everything and they said why do you stay here in Carbondale and work in this hotel ? You work too hard they used to tell me and a I really don't know whether too - ') 0 ., 1-< >I L ... h� Why don't you move to Lestershire? We'll see. W" �· '> So, Mr. Bennett ', a salesman for ladies hats and used to come around and show his hats around. In those days the salesman used to bring their stuff to different hotels. They didn't have it the way they do now and he travel- ed by train and then so I came home and,told my mother the good news and she was delighted to hear it and she said II Oh Anna please go to Binghamton. Your sisters are getting older now and they - they could work and help us. 11 Y,c l',n,u My father was a miner and he wasn't getting any money•ott�. So, mother had a garden and she had chickens and she had everything we lived off that rather my family lived of course I was working and I came to Binghamton and it was June 15, 1915. -l�n'<-' I'll never forget that was a rainy da�. I came here and I was soaked and raining very hard that day and I was soaken wet and my sister Julia which was next to me If you come with me I'll find you a job. So, while I was here - while I was here in Binghamton I did not know a soul nobody and I stopped at the Press building and I looked in the dictionary to find out where the Russian �Anna Borsuk Page 3 are - I thought wherever there are Russian Churches then there are some Russian people and they would help me and sure enough I - I took a street car and I forget an old factory a cigar factory people were in there and I could smell the odor from cigars and that was something new - and I got off at the church right on Clinton St. St. Michael's Church and across the street I noticed a Russian name and I went in there and I spoke to him in Russian and he answered me and I asked him that I'm a stranger and I'm looking for a house for my family and a he said well there is - I don't know anything about it he said to me I couldn't tell you but my wife is coming home if you'll wait she'll be here any minute and sure enough she came in and she ��d yes, I'll take you to the lady on the corner of Charles and Grace St. and the lady is giving up her apartment. So, I went in there with Mary Driscoll her name was Driscoll and she spoke to the lady for me and I told her and she said yes, I'm moving out right now but I thought who owned the property but I supposed that she was the landlord and she told me that Dr. Hutchings on Front St. so I went there all in one day I did all that. I went there and I met this doctor and I told him my story, my sad story and he was very kind and very helpful and he said a I'll rent you this house as soon as you can get here and I'll help you all I can. So, he a I said well we have nothing - nothing to bring over because everything was burned down. My mother was living with her sister and so I - I stayed here one day and then I went to the shoe factory Dunn McCarthy's and a I wanted to talk to the foreman or the superintendent and a I met a very nice man and I - I should remember his name because he was a wonderful to me. I was a child. He talked to me like He said " My dear girl he said you bring your sisters here and I'll give them a job and bring your father and I'll give him a job too." So, I felt I was delighted and a a I was on the verge to go back to the �Anna Borsuk Page 4 hotel because I know my manager there would be displeased that I left and a I said a I have to go back to Carbondale to my job and they gave me only one day off and a so we hurried, we hurried and hurried and I wanted to get off and anyway I had everything arranged and we said Dr.Hutchings I think that was a his name Dr. Hutchings - they used to live by up there it's hard to say up there you know from the corner the third house up there you know. I think probably it's still there. He said, 11 I won't charge you any rent I won't expect anything from you whatever you can do so I - I didn't have to pay any rent any - anway I didn't have any money and a see I dont know what to say. Yes - so this neighbor the next door neighbor from the house that we were going to move into they were Slovish people - I think they're name was Kusmach. I asked them if my sister could stay there all night with them - with them while I go home and break the news and my family would come here right away and then she stayed there she began to cry Julia did she thought she's among strangers you know and she was oh about 15 years old and a well anyway Julia you have a job and there are two girls in the family there and they have supported her too because they were working too so then I said goodbye to her and she cried and I cried too. I came to the station. on my way to the station in the rain the next day. I was I had to spend the night over in the neighbors house and a the next day I was going to the station and Mr. Hart and Mr. Bennett the two salesman that had told me to come here, I ran into them or rather they ran into me and he said what are you doing here Anna? And I said well Mr. Bennett you told me to go to Lestershire so I came to Lestershire and I have everything arranged and they were very surprised that I did it so quickly so then I said a and then Mr. Bennett and Mr. Hart said to me well where are you going? �Anna Borsuk What are you going to do? Page 5 I said well I'm going back to the American Hotel because Mr. & Mrs. Mccann will be cross with me that I'm taking off and they took me by the arm and they said you're not going back there you're working like a slave there and it's too much for you. We're going to intro duce you to a hotel manager here and they took me to the Bennett Hotel. That's the Bennett at that time and it was a very nice hotel at that time. They introduced me to the manager I think his name was Mr. Proseman and his beautiful wife and a Mr. Proseman said that I was a very fine girl and I was supporting my son and he told them the story and a they gave me the job right away and I was there for about a year and when some other friends that recognized me in the lobby some of the people who remembered me from Carbondale saw me there working there and a Mr. Bennett waiting on the table that I waited on the manager and his wife I just hadone table just the family and a so I felt kind of proud you know that they ch'ose me among all the others you know so I felt kind of well I was I was just a very happy about it that everything that I had so many friends that were helping me and I was they just a - they were so pleased I do whatever they suggested everything. I and a I a I called well anyway I said alright I'll have to go back to Carbondale and give my notice that I'm coming and I went back and the manager and his wife didn't want to let me go. They didn't want to pay me but they said you gotta stay here and I said I can't I promised I'm going there and I said my family is going there and my little boy was you know with my mother and my son was going to be a year and half old and a I said wherever he's gonna be I ought to be there too. reluctant to let me go. So they were very They didn't like it and a so as I said in the - I worked only one year at the Bennett and one of the other guests recognized me and they said we can find you a better place than this to work so �Anna Borsuk Page 6 they went to the Arlington Hotel and spoke to Mr. Turney the old gentleman Turney was in there you know there at that time. They spoke c.\� to him and told him about me and that I was a hard worker and,a very decent girl and all that and of course they were giving me all that recommendation I didn'thave to tell them all that about myself but a they all felt sorry for me that I had such big responsibilities and the guests were always very nice to me in every hotel whereever I worked and a finally a I got the job at the Arlington and I left the Bennett which was not a nice thing$ to do because they were nice to me I had no reason to leave to leave but a a they thought that I would do better at the Arlington which I did because they gave me more money and that helped. I had to give so much money to my mother to help her towards my son's support and his Ir r ,-i-, • r [, f>, - clothes and everything and a of course before that I was separated from my � husband but he wasn't supporting me. He was working on the railroad and he was drinking and he just didn't care about - about the baby or me or anything. He never gave me any money so I just - I just left him - I couldn't - I didn't want to continue living with him and have anymore I stayed at the Arlington for 5 years then I went to New York City and I started working at the Statler Hotel which was only there two years before and I a I was there only a year at this hotel and then I noticed they were opening up a beauty parlor on the mezzanine floor and I had an interview myself I kept thinking about my poor sisters working in the shoe factory and I thought what a wonderful idea it would be if they would take a beauty parlor work and a go into that kind of work. I couldn't afford to - to work at the salaries that the learners in those days they didn't have �Anna Borsuk Page 7 beauty - beauty schools like they have now cause we had to work in the beauty parlor as an apprentice and you only got $12.00 a week. A girl that just took up hair and keep the box filled and so I got my sister in New York and she got the job at the President at the they called it Pennsylvania the Statler Hotel and she was there for a while and I had to leave her because my mother had a big 12 family apartment in Binghamton and she thought that I should be with her that I that she couldn't get along without me being there to help her with the and she wrote me that I'm breaking up her home by taking my sisters away and I left the Statler Hotel to be with my mother to help her with that big property she got. And my sister liked New York so well she stayed and she had been modeling and - and a she made good money and she stayed about 2 years but while I was here trying to help my mother with that big 12 family apartment house and she came back - finally she came back and then I said well I'm going to look around Binghamton and see if we can find a little place where we can start a little beauty parlor. Of course my sister took up marcel waving we were the first people that had that method you know when we came here. She took that up in New York and of course Dorothy too was a manicurist and my second sister and so the two of them had a little training and so I found a location in a beauty parlor I ran around Binghamton and asked different people what to do with it. Get a good place and my lawyer my family lawyer Mr. Polletta told me to talk to Mr. Tyler which was the superintendent of the Press building at the time and I spoke to Mr. Tyler rather Mr. Polletta spoke to him first and he gave me a little room that had only 2 chairs and two dryers and 2 manicuring tables?course I had to buy my equipment in New York. They didn't have any equipment up here in Binghamton and so I had to order it there and mother came to New York an gave me the money for the equipment and begged me to �Anna Borsuk Page 8 come home with tears in her eyes and I agreed to come home and bring the girls back home and so they my sisters wanted to stay away because the found more opportunities and finally when I opened the beauty parlor and Martha and I were the first two that were working there. ( Can you recall any of the prices at that time?) Oh, yes the manicures were SO� and our shampoo was SO� and of course the only big item they were the highest was the permanent wave which I was doing that was my speciality I charged $6.00. I had the beauty parlor where I'd have to go to New York to the hairdressers show every six months take just take up the Eugene Wave by Mr. Eugene himself personally gave me the instructions. That was the Marcel wave, the permanent wave they used to call it a Marcel so then my sister Martha was lliss Martha she was giving a marcel with an iron you knowbut I was so we made a big hit in Binghamton and then we outgrew the beauty parlor it was too small for the business. It just boomed the first year that we were there. only a year. We were there I spoke to Mr. Tyler that - that I'd like to move into a larger room and he said that Judge Parson is moving away from - he's giving th•r up his position and he's right on a corner he has two rooms. he said I could take the partition down and you could enlarge it would be an L shaped beauty parlor for you but you could have as many boothSas you want so I said that would be fine so Mr. Tyler the superintendent was very nice to me. He suggested it and I - I thought of course it was a good idea so I said I'd appreciate it very much I think if you would do that because I have two cth!r sisters that are ready to come in with me and we wouldn't fit in this little room we have here. They did it in a hurray and they did special piping for us and 9lso drains from each booth from the shampooing booth. We had seven �Anna Borsuk Page 9 shampoo booths and 3 manicuring tables and one barber chair - hair cutting chair and I have some pictures of that and a we did very good business and and of course all my sisters were in by that time they all 4 of us - 5 of us and I - I was about I used to give six and seven permanents a day and I got terribly run down and I got a cold one day and I just thought well maybe I need a change I'll go to New York maybe I just need a change I thought you know because I had so much responsibility so I packed my little bag and I went. My mother didn't approve, my sisters didn't nobody approved of me going but I said I'm getting away from everything I can't take it I didn't realize I was sick although my doctor kept telling me that I'm going to get sick and he threatened me that I'm going to get sick. He told his wife was a customer of mine, his daughter was my customer and his aunt and they all saw how hard I worked. I used to work from 8 o'clock until lo every night and I never had time to eat my lunch and if I did I - I had indigestion and the doctor said before I go to lunch to lay down for a minute before I go - he said if you don't be careful you're going to get TB Dr. Arfonse said that to me and I said a no I said I'm not going to get TB I'll be alright so I just packed my suitcase and I went to New York and I went to Sacks Fifth Ave., N. Y. and I talked to the manager there about a and he gave it to me. job I was working there about 4 months when one day I had a spell while I was on duty and a there were two - four girls there they were Russian girls there they were from Russia and they were only shampoo girls they were really they came they were refuges from Russia here and they didn't know nothing about hair work but the only thing they could do was wash the hair and they saw that I looked sick and then they took me over to the clinic it was on the ninth floor and the doctor and the nurse said they had one room just like a hospital and they found that I had TB. They sent �Anna Borsuk Page 10 me away for a year and then I came back home cured and I couldn't go back to the beauty parlor because there was something about the cosmetics that I would cough and I - I thought well I'd sit at the desk and just get the appointments prepare the customers and let the girls do the rest. We had 13 girls working there by that time, colored girls too and we were teaching girls beauty work and I know my uncle came here from Pittsburgh and he 'd say I don't know why your teaching anybody they're ti h' .:I, going to take business away from you b�� they did but it - it didn't hurt us and a because the business kept booming and a so I a was managing it from the house and the girls would come home and tell my mother that Anna's coughing too much and they were trying to keep my condition secrete from my customers nobody didn't know so then my mother said why don't you stay home Anna and we have a big house a 22 room house on Court St. there why don't you do something with this you seem to know what to do so I said the only thing I could think of is start a ourist house now that I'm sick and can't work in the beauty parlor anymore for another year the doctor say I can't go to the beauty parlor for another year until they pronounce me arrested - my case arrested. I had to go to the doctor every month to be exrayed and questioned and so I started the trurist business and that business boomed you know and I ran that for 13 years. And talk about my mother got sick gall bladder and she she didn't get up in time she got this palsey you know so that when she got down here she needed me so I was a nurse I was taking care of my mother and I was running the tourist house. I used to have 30 people in my house every night during the summer and I had to show them the rooms go run outdoors and show them where to park the cars. I did that for 13 years and then my mother passed away and then you know she passed away and a then I had another breakdown �Anna Borsuk Page 11 after she died with pleursy on my bad lung and I was in the hospital 11 weeks and the doctor hollered at hlY doctor and he shook his finger at me that I'm not being fair to my self but he pulled me through - I - I - I had a 103 temperature for 11 weeks and he called my daughter-in-law by that time my son was married and he told my daughter-in-law the things that that I did but a by that the family wanted to sell the house they thought it was too much for me and they all wanted to get out and on their own they were getting married and I didn't want to sell it because I wanted a home I wanted something if I knew I was going to live to this age I would have fought it more I would have kept it but I thought I'm finished because my family gave me up so many times then I had a second breakdown after we sold the house I had another breakdown of my lungs and I was at Chenango Bridge and I'm still here and but I still didn't give up I got back on my feet and started working again and a I a the family pressed me so hard to sell sell sell that I finally gave up and I sold it. to do. So then I wasn't welcome anyplace I - I just didn't know what What am I going to do. I - I - - - ( So what year did you come to the high rise?) Well I came to the high rise in 1968 when they just opened it. I'm here 10 years and well well first I - I traveled with a suitcase I went all over you know and the money that I had from the property you know 17 years I was doing nothing just traveling with a suitcase trying to make myself live someplace. I didn't know where I belonged and a as for a job they said they didn't want anybody at my age which was around 40 and I was around 40 and a I no matter what I did I was a telephone operator, I worked on a switchboard worked at the New York City hotel and I worked �Anna Borsuk Page 12 at the switchboard in the front here and I had all this experience and they didn't want to give me a job because of my age so I said what am I going to do. I just retired. Well I lived off the few hundred - thousand dollars that I got for 17 years but then the money was gone so I was older and I said what am I goingto do now so I had another good friend at the Bennett Hotel and he and I told him my story and he and his wife and he was Mr. Lamb I guess everybody in town knows him and about my story and he says well I can help you all I can say is a good work for you to go on welfare so I said yes I will go on welfare but I didn't my family and my son didn't know anything about it that I was doing that I was very independent I never went to any of them for a dollar or a coin - - or anything I'm kind of independent and I was too spunky you know my mother and father used to say to me I never seen anything like you if you make up your min� your gonna do it I still do, but a so then people were very kind to me the urban renewal people a a Margarette a a what's her name she's in the office over here. I can't think of her name now, she was very kind to me and she said I was living at the Arlington I was on welfare already and of course welfare were giving me only $85.00 a month and I hadto pay $50.00 rent so what did I have left so I used to do - I used to help a lot of little old ladies take them someplace and they'd buy my meal and a or I used to sew I I was a dressmaker for 3 years and then my eyesight failed t-h�l \.I/., failed me and I managed n-i:-eet� ut I always meet nice people that were couldsew. always very helpful to me all the time not that I - I didn't go to them purposefully to tell them my sad story but a I- I wanted to get along as best I could so then a - a well we were living at the Bennett you know the place was condemned the Bennett hotel and we were living there - �Anna Borsuk Page 13 there were about 20 of us ladies living there and a I couldn't make - I couldn't make ends meet so I used to take care of another sick lady but a retired from Washington from the Pengagon and she - I used to escort her around and sheused to buy my lunches for me. I used to escort her around town and well after that we had to move out of there. We were there I was there about 6 years at the Bennett and then the urban renewal moved us to the Arlington. We were supposed to bethere only one year but instead of that we figured two years waiting for this to be finished so then a the'd moved me here they a urban moved my furniture and they bought furniture that I have here. It's from the Arlington they bought it for me through thewelfare I don't know who paid for it and some of the odd pieces were given to me that I have but a so I have been here ever since. ( Well Anna, I think that we can close by saying that you have a very lovely attractive apartment so that you are comfortable.) Well a lot of people say that to me but a when a I was runningthe tourist house you know the guests used to come in and say that I had the cleanest house that I used to have the cleanest rooms of any tourist house that they ever had and they always came. house. We used to have a lot of flowers around the I had a lot of boxes and I know I had a hairdresser from New York City stop and he said he had his family with him and he saidwe went all over Binghamton and my family wanted to go in that house where all the beau tiful flowers are so they would come in and they would come in and they saw - I must say so but I had the flowers and everybody that came in that had children they said that it was the cleanest neatest place and I had 15 rooms to rent sometimes I had 30 people in one night in the house and I had all that laundry to take care of and I had all those beds to make myself. I was �Anna Borsuk Page 14 doing it myself do and but then I did breakdown after my mother died. ( Well now let's finish the story by telling the people how old you are you've lived throygh a great deal. ) Yes, well I - I'm 87 years old now and I don't know how much longer I'm going to live because everybody tells me I don't look my age. ( You don't look your age you're a very very attractive woman. ) But a I have this a chest condition - chest pains now and I don't know lately it's been kind of they've been kind of although I have a very good doctor he shakes his finger at me. ( Well let's just hope for the best. Mrs. Borsuk.) Thank you very much for the interview � https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d14f8cd82f5d117973cebf43420452d1.mp3 7bb74e2c7b4d9165847b18fc84742e19 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Borsuk, Anna Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-06 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:55 minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55862">Interview with Anna Borsuk</a> Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Subject LCSH Borsuk, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pittsburgh (Pa.); Beauty shops; Tuberculosis -- Patients -- Interviews; Single mothers -- Interviews Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Miss Anna Borsuk Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 6 March 1978 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with Miss Anna Borsuk, who lives at 24 Isbell Street, Binghamton, NY. The date is March 6, 1978. Anna, Could you tell us something about your early beginnings, where you were born, any recollections of your childhood? Anna: Yes, I can—I can remember, oh, from the age of five or six, I guess, I remember. Susan: Where were you born? Anna: I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We moved from there to Mayfair, PA, and I was, I guess I must have been eight or nine years old. From there we moved again to Carbondale, PA, and I started to work in a hotel. I was there five years as a waitress and all-around girl. I'm ahead of my story, but let’s see, I got married before I started working at the hotel. I was married when I was sixteen years old and, ah, I had my son, my son, and then when he was a year and a half old I left and went to the hotel. I went to work as a waitress and I was there five years, and I met some good friends there who were salesmen—saw how hard I worked and how much money I was making and they felt sorry for me, and I—in the meantime my mother’s and father’s home burned down and they lost everything, and I felt very badly. While I was working some of the guests noticed me, that I felt badly, and they asked why I was upset, and I told them that we had lost our home—we lost everything—and they said, “Why do you stay here in Carbondale and work in this hotel? You work too hard,” they used to tell me, and ah, I really don't know whether to— “Why don't you move to Lestershire?”  “We'll see.” So, Mr. Bennett, you know, he was a salesman for ladies’ hats and used to come around and show his hats around. In those days the salesmen used to bring their stuff to different hotels. They didn't have it the way they do now, and he traveled by train and then, so I came home and I told my mother the good news, and she was delighted to hear it, and she said, “Oh, Anna, please go to Binghamton. Your sisters are getting older now and they—they could work and help us.” My father was a miner and he wasn't getting any money, you know. So, mother had a garden and she had chickens and she had everything, we lived off that—rather, my family lived, of course I was working—and I came to Binghamton and it was June 15, 1915. I'll never forget that was a rainy one. I came here and I was soaked and, raining very hard that day and I was soakin’ wet, and my sister Julia which was next to me— “If you come with me I'll find you a job.” So, while I was here—while I was here in Binghamton, I did not know a soul, nobody, and I stopped at the Press building and I looked in the dictionary to find out where the Russian are—I thought, wherever there are Russian Churches, then there are some Russian people and they would help me, and sure enough I—I took a streetcar and, I forget, an old factory, a cigar factory, people were in there and I could smell the odor from cigars, and that was something new—and I got off at the church right on Clinton Street, St. Michael's Church, and across the street I noticed a Russian name and I went in there and I spoke to him in Russian and he answered me, and I asked him that I'm a stranger and I'm looking for a house for my family and, ah, he said, “Well, there is—I don't know anything about it,” he said to me, “I couldn't tell you, but my wife is coming home. If you'll wait, she'll be here any minute,” and sure enough she came in and she said, “Yes, I'll take you to the lady on the corner of Charles and Grace Street, and the lady is giving up her apartment.” So, I went in there with Mary Driscoll, her name was Driscoll, and she spoke to the lady for me and I told her and she said, “Yes, I'm moving out right now,” but I thought, who owned the property? But I supposed that she was the landlord, and she told me that was Dr. Hutchings on Front Street so I went there, all in one day I did all that. I went there and I met this doctor and I told him my story, my sad story, and he was very kind and very helpful and he said, “Ah, I'll rent you this house as soon as you can get here and I'll help you all I can.” So he, ah, I said, “Well, we have nothing—nothing to bring over, because everything was burned down.” My mother was living with her sister and so I—I stayed here one day and then I went to the shoe factory, Dunn McCarthy's, and ah, I wanted to talk to the foreman or the superintendent, and ah, I met a very nice man and I—I should remember his name because he was, ah, wonderful to me. He talked to me like I was a child. He said, "My dear girl,” he said, “you bring your sisters here and I'll give them a job, and bring your father and I'll give him a job too.” So I felt, I was delighted, and ah, ah, I was on the verge to go back to the hotel because I know my manager there would be displeased that I left, and ah, I said, “Ah, I have to go back to Carbondale to my job and they gave me only one day off,” and ah, so we hurried, we hurried and hurried and I wanted to get off and, anyway, I had everything arranged, and we said, “Dr. Hutchings” —I think that was, ah, his name, Dr. Hutchings—they used to live by up there, it's hard to say up there, you know, from the corner, the third house up there, you know. I think probably it's still there. He said, “I won't charge you any rent, I won't expect anything from you, whatever you can do,” so I—I didn't have to pay any rent any—anyway, I didn't have any money and, ah, see, I don’t know what to say. Yes—so this neighbor, the next door neighbor from the house that we were going to move into, they were Slavish [Slavic] people—I think their name was Kusmach. I asked them if my sister could stay there all night with them—with them while I go home and break the news and my family would come here right away, and then she stayed there, she began to cry, Julia did. She thought, she's among strangers, you know, and she was, oh, about fifteen years old and, ah, well anyway, Julia, you have a job and there are two girls in the family there and they have supported her too, because they were working too, so then I said goodbye to her and she cried and I cried too. I came to the station. I was on my way to the station in the rain the next day. I had to spend the night over in the neighbors’ house and, ah, the next day I was going to the station, and Mr. Hart and Mr. Bennett, the two salesmen that had told me to come here, I ran into them, or rather they ran into me, and he said, “What are you doing here, Anna?” And I said, “Well, Mr. Bennett, you told me to go to Lestershire, so I came to Lestershire and I have everything arranged,” and they were very surprised that I did it so quickly, so then I said, ah, and then Mr. Bennett and Mr. Hart said to me, “Well, where are you going? What are you going to do?” I said, “Well, I'm going back to the American Hotel because Mr. & Mrs. McCann will be cross with me that I'm taking off,” and they took me by the arm and they said, “You're not going back there, you're working like a slave there and it's too much for you. We're going to introduce you to a hotel manager here,” and they took me to the Bennett Hotel. That's the Bennett at that time, and it was a very nice hotel at that time. They introduced me to the manager, I think his name was Mr. Proseman, and his beautiful wife, and ah, Mr. Proseman said that I was a very fine girl and I was supporting my son, and he told them the story and, ah, they gave me the job right away and I was there for about a year, and when some other friends that recognized me in the lobby, some of the people who remembered me from Carbondale saw me there working there and, ah, Mr. Bennett, waiting on the table that I waited on the manager and his wife—I just had one table, just the family, and ah, so I felt kind of proud, you know, that they chose me among all the others, you know, so I felt kind of, well, I was, I was just, ah, very happy about it, that everything, that I had so many friends that were helping me and I was, they just, ah—they were so pleased I’d do whatever they suggested, everything. I and, ah, I, ah, I called, well anyway, I said, “All right, I'll have to go back to Carbondale and give my notice that I'm coming,” and I went back and the manager and his wife didn't want to let me go. They didn't want to pay me, but they said, “You gotta stay here,” and I said, “I can't, I promised I'm going there,” and I said, “My family is going there,” and my little boy was, you know, with my mother, and my son was going to be a year and half old and, ah, I said, “Wherever he's gonna be, I ought to be there too.” So they were very reluctant to let me go. They didn't like it and, ah, so as I said in the—I worked only one year at the Bennett and one of the other guests recognized me and they said, “We can find you a better place than this to work,” so they went to the Arlington Hotel and spoke to Mr. Turney—the old gentleman Turney was in there, you know, there at that time. They spoke to him and told him about me and that I was a hard worker and a very decent girl and all that, and of course they were giving me all that recommendation, I didn't have to tell them all that about myself, but ah, they all felt sorry for me that I had such big responsibilities, and the guests were always very nice to me in every hotel wherever I worked, and ah, finally, ah, I got the job at the Arlington and I left the Bennett, which was not a nice thing to do because they were nice to me, I had no reason to leave to leave, but ah, ah, they thought that I would do better at the Arlington, which I did because they gave me more money and that helped. I had to give so much money to my mother to help her towards my son's support and his clothes and everything, and ah, of course at that time, before that, I was separated from my husband but he wasn't supporting me. He was working on the railroad and he was drinking and he just didn't care about—about the baby or me or anything. He never gave me any money, so I just—I just left him—I couldn't—I didn't want to continue living with him and have any more—- I stayed at the Arlington for five years, then I went to New York City and I started working at the Statler Hotel, which was only there two years before, and I, ah— I was there only a year at this hotel, and then I noticed they were opening up a beauty parlor on the mezzanine floor and I had an interview myself, I kept thinking about my poor sisters working in the shoe factory and I thought, what a wonderful idea it would be if they would take, ah, beauty parlor work and, ah, go into that kind of work. I couldn't afford to—to work at the salaries that the learners in those days, they didn't have beauty—beauty schools like they have now, ’cause we had to work in the beauty parlor as an apprentice and you only got $12.00 a week. A girl that just took up hair and keep the box filled, and so I got my sister in New York and she got the job at the President, at the, they called it “Pennsylvania,” the Statler Hotel, and she was there for a while, and I had to leave her because my mother had a big twelve-family apartment in Binghamton and she thought that I should be with her, that I, that she couldn't get along without me being there to help her with the, and she wrote me that I'm breaking up her home by taking my sisters away, and I left the Statler Hotel to be with my mother, to help her with that big property she got. And my sister liked New York so well she stayed, and she had been modeling and—and ah, she made good money and she stayed about two years, but while I was here trying to help my mother with that big twelve-family apartment house and she came back—finally she came back and then I said, “Well, I'm going to look around Binghamton and see if we can find a little place where we can start a little beauty parlor.” Of course my sister took up marcel waving, we were the first people that had that method, you know, when we came here. She took that up in New York, and of course Dorothy, too, was a manicurist and—my second sister—and so the two of them had a little training and so I found a location in a beauty parlor, I ran around Binghamton and asked different people what to do with it. Get a good place and my lawyer, my family lawyer, Mr. Polletta, told me to talk to Mr. Tyler, which was the superintendent of the Press building at the time, and I spoke to Mr. Tyler, rather, Mr. Polletta spoke to him first, and he gave me a little room that had only two chairs and two dryers and two manicuring tables—of course I had to buy my equipment in New York. They didn't have any equipment up here in Binghamton and so I had to order it there, and Mother came to New York and gave me the money for the equipment and begged me to come home with tears in her eyes, and I agreed to come home and bring the girls back home and so they, my sisters wanted to stay away because they found more opportunities, and finally, when I opened the beauty parlor and Martha and I were the first two that were working there. Susan: Can you recall any of the prices at that time? Anna: Oh yes, the manicures were 50¢ and our shampoo was 50¢ and of course the only big item, they were the highest, was the permanent wave, which I was doing, that was my specialty—I charged $6.00. I had the beauty parlor where I'd have to go to New York to the hairdressers’ show every six months, take, just take up the Eugene Wave by Mr. Eugene himself, personally gave me the instructions. That was the marcel wave, the permanent wave, they used to call it a Marcel, so then my sister Martha was Miss Martha, she was giving a marcel with an iron, you know, but I was, so we made a big hit in Binghamton, and then we outgrew the beauty parlor, it was too small for the business. It just boomed the first year that we were there. We were there only a year. I spoke to Mr. Tyler that—that I'd like to move into a larger room, and he said that Judge Parson is moving away from—he's giving up his position and he's right on a corner, he has two rooms. Then he said I could take the partition down and you could enlarge it, would be an L-shaped beauty parlor for you, but you could have as many booths as you want, so I said that would be fine, so Mr. Tyler the superintendent was very nice to me. He suggested it and I—I thought, of course, it was a good idea, so I said, “I'd appreciate it very much, I think, if you would do that, because I have two other sisters that are ready to come in with me, and we wouldn't fit in this little room we have here.” They did it in a hurry, and they did special piping for us and also drains from each booth, from the shampooing booth. We had seven shampoo booths and three manicuring tables and one barber chair—hair-cutting chair, and I have some pictures of that and, ah, we did very good business, and, and of course all my sisters were in by that time, they, all four of us—five of us, and I—I was about, I used to give six and seven permanents a day, and I got terribly run down and I got a cold one day, and I just thought, “Well, maybe I need a change, I'll go to New York, maybe I just need a change,” I thought, you know, because I had so much responsibility, so I packed my little bag and I went. My mother didn't approve, my sisters didn't, nobody approved of me going, but I said, “I'm getting away from everything, I can't take it.” I didn't realize I was sick, although my doctor kept telling me that I'm going to get sick and he threatened me that I'm going to get sick. He told his wife was a customer of mine, his daughter was my customer, and his aunt, and they all saw how hard I worked. I used to work from 8 o'clock until 10 every night and I never had time to eat my lunch, and if I did I—I had indigestion, and the doctor said before I go to lunch, to lay down for a minute before I go—he said, “If you don't be careful you're going to get TB.” Dr. Arfonse said that to me, and I said, “Ah, no,” I said, “I'm not going to get TB. I'll be all right.”  So I just packed my suitcase and I went to New York and I went to Sachs Fifth Avenue, New York, and I talked to the manager there about a job and he gave it to me. I was working there about four months, when one day I had a spell while I was on duty and, ah, there were two—four girls there, they were Russian girls there, they were from Russia, and they were only shampoo girls, they were really, they came, they were refugees from Russia here and they didn't know nothing about hair work, but the only thing they could do was wash the hair, and they saw that I looked sick and then they took me over to the clinic, it was on the ninth floor, and the doctor and the nurse said they had one room, just like a hospital, and they found that I had TB. They sent me away for a year and then I came back home cured, and I couldn't go back to the beauty parlor because there was something about the cosmetics that I would cough and I—I thought, well, I'd sit at the desk and just get the appointments, prepare the customers, and let the girls do the rest. We had thirteen girls working there by that time, colored girls, too, and we were teaching girls beauty work, and I know my uncle came here from Pittsburgh and he'd say, “I don't know why you’re teaching anybody, they're going to take business away from you,” which they did, but it—it didn't hurt us, and ah, because the business kept booming and, ah, so I, ah, was managing it from the house, and the girls would come home and tell my mother that “Anna's coughing too much,” and they were trying to keep my condition secret from my customers, nobody didn't know, so then my mother said, “Why don't you stay home, Anna, and we have a big house, a 22-room house on Court Street there, why don't you do something with this? You seem to know what to do,” so I said the only thing I could think of is start a tourist house now that I'm sick and can't work in the beauty parlor anymore for another year, the doctors say I can't go to the beauty parlor for another year until they pronounce me arrested—my case arrested. I had to go to the doctor every month to be X-rayed and questioned, and so I started the tourist business, and that business boomed, you know, and I ran that for thirteen years. And talk about, my mother got sick, gallbladder, and she, she didn't get up in time, she got this palsy, you know, so that when she got down here she needed me, so I was a nurse, I was taking care of my mother and I was running the tourist house. I used to have thirty people in my house every night during the summer, and I had to show them the rooms, go run outdoors and show them where to park the cars. I did that for thirteen years and then my mother passed away and then, you know, she passed away, and ah, then I had another breakdown after she died, with pleurisy on my bad lung, and I was in the hospital eleven weeks, and the doctor hollered at my doctor and he shook his finger at me that I'm not being fair to myself, but he pulled me through—I—I—I had a 103 temperature for eleven weeks and he called my daughter-in-law, by that time my son was married, and he told my daughter-in-law the things that that I did, but ah, by that the family wanted to sell the house, they thought it was too much for me and they all wanted to get out and on their own, they were getting married and I didn't want to sell it because I wanted a home, I wanted something, if I knew I was going to live to this age I would have fought it more, I would have kept it, but I thought, “I'm finished,” because my family gave me up so many times, then I had a second breakdown after we sold the house I had another breakdown of my lungs and I was at Chenango Bridge and I'm still here and, but I still didn't give up, I got back on my feet and started working again and, ah, I, ah, the family pressed me so hard to sell, sell, sell, that I finally gave up and I sold it. So then I wasn't welcome anyplace, I—I just didn't know what to do. What am I going to do? I—I— Susan: So what year did you come to the high rise? Anna: Well, I came to the high rise in 1968, when they just opened it. I'm here ten years, and well, well, first I—I traveled with a suitcase, I went all over, you know, and the money that I had from the property, you know, seventeen years I was doing nothing, just traveling with a suitcase, trying to make myself live someplace. I didn't know where I belonged, and ah, as for a job, they said they didn't want anybody at my age, which was around forty, and I was around forty, and ah, I, no matter what I did, I was a telephone operator, I worked on a switchboard, worked at the New York City hotel and I worked at the switchboard in the front here and I had all this experience and they didn't want to give me a job because of my age, so I said, “What am I going to do?” I just retired. Well I lived off the few hundred thousand dollars that I got for seventeen years but then the money was gone, so, I was older and I said, “What am I going to do now?” so I had another good friend at the Bennett Hotel, and he, and I told him my story and he and his wife—and he was Mr. Lamb, I guess everybody in town knows him and about my story—and he says, “Well, I can help you, all I can say is a good work for you to go on welfare,” so I said, “Yes, I will go on welfare,” but I didn't—my family and my son didn't know anything about it, that I was doing that, I was very independent, I never went to any of them for a dollar or a coin—or anything, I'm kind of independent and I was too spunky, you know, my mother and father used to say to me, “I never seen anything like you, if you make up your mind you’rer gonna do it.” I still do, but ah, so then people were very kind to me, the urban renewal people, ah, ah, Margarette, ah, ah, what's her name? She's in the office over here. I can't think of her name now, she was very kind to me and she said I was living at the Arlington, I was on welfare already and of course welfare were giving me only $85.00 a month and I had to pay $50.00 rent, so what did I have left? So I used to do—I used to help a lot of little old ladies take them someplace and they'd buy my meal and, ah, or I used to sew, I could sew. I was a dressmaker for three years and then my eyesight failed—failed me, and I managed that way, but I always meet nice people that were always very helpful to me all the time, not that I—I didn't go to them purposefully to tell them my sad story, but ah, I—I wanted to get along as best I could, so then, ah—ah, well, we were living at the Bennett, you know the place was condemned, the Bennett hotel, and we were living there. There were about twenty of us ladies living there, and ah, I couldn't make—I couldn't make ends meet so I used to take care of another sick lady, but ah, retired from Washington, from the Pentagon, and she—I used to escort her around and she used to buy my lunches for me. I used to escort her around town, and well, after that we had to move out of there. We were there, I was there about six years at the Bennett, and then the Urban Renewal moved us to the Arlington. We were supposed to be there only one year, but instead of that we figured two years waiting for this to be finished, so then, ah, they'd moved me here, they ah, Urban [Renewal] moved my furniture and they bought furniture that I have here. It's from the Arlington, they bought it for me through the welfare, I don't know who paid for it, and some of the odd pieces were given to me that I have, but ah, so I have been here ever since. Susan: Well, Anna, I think that we can close by saying that you have a very lovely attractive apartment so that you are comfortable. Anna: Well, a lot of people say that to me, but ah, when, ah, I was running the tourist house, you know, the guests used to come in and say that I had the cleanest house, that I used to have the cleanest rooms of any tourist house that they ever had, and they always came. We used to have a lot of flowers around the house. I had a lot of boxes, and I know I had a hairdresser from New York City stop and he said, he had his family with him and he said, “We went all over Binghamton and my family wanted to go in that house where all the beautiful flowers are,” so they would come in, and they would come in and they saw—I must say so, but I had the flowers, and everybody that came in that had children, they said that it was the cleanest, neatest place, and I had fifteen rooms to rent, sometimes I had thirty people in one night in the house, and I had all that laundry to take care of and I had all those beds to make myself. I was doing it myself, too, and, but then I did break down after my mother died. Susan: Well, now let's finish the story by telling the people how old you are—you've lived through a great deal. Anna: Yes, well I—I'm 87 years old now and I don't know how much longer I'm going to live, because everybody tells me I don't look my age. Susan: You don't look your age, you're a very, very attractive woman. Anna: But ah, I have this, ah, chest condition—chest pains now, and I don't know, lately it's been kind of, they've been kind of, although I have a very good doctor, he shakes his finger at me. Susan: Well, let's just hope for the best. Thank you very much for the interview, Mrs. Borsuk. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anna Borsuk Subject The topic of the resource Borsuk, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pittsburgh (Pa.); Beauty shops; Tuberculosis -- Patients -- Interviews; Single mothers -- Interviews Description An account of the resource Anna Borsuk talks about her early years, moving from Pittsburgh, PA, to Binghamton, NY, and working in hotels in NYC. She discusses opening one of the first beauty parlors in Binghamton, running a tourist house, struggles with failing health due to TB and raising her son alone. She remarks the help she received from welfare and the kindness of people working in urban renewal in her later years. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Borsuk, Anna ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-06 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:55 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/30acf4006690fcfa50433d0f8f30553d.mp3 ef6fdfd017245b6336e40e428f3a2bcc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Marie Nejame Freije Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Dates of interviews: 6 March 1978 and 6 April 1978 [Interview #1: 6 March 1978] Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Marie Freije of 60 Mathews St., Binghamton, NY, on March 6, 1978. Marie, do you want to start telling me about your recollections of your life when you came from Lebanon? Marie: OK—I was born in Lebanon and we lived most of our life in Egypt, and the winters, we spent our winters in Egypt and in the summer in Lebanon, up until and then we were caught in Lebanon during the First World War and we were spending our summer there. And from there, we spent the, spent the four years in Lebanon and in Arabia. We had to go to Arabia to get away from the war, that's from the Turks-dominated Lebanon. That's when my brother, Fred, was with Lawrence of Arabia who worked for the King of Arabia. And we finally came to Egypt before the war ended—four months before—and that's where I went to school—in French schools—private schools, and in 1922 we came to this country. I was 15 years old, entered schools here. We lived in Syracuse, where I attended high school and College of Music—that was a major in music. In 1932 we came to Binghamton, therefore I consider Binghamton my hometown, but I enjoyed life here in the community. In 1938, my brother and I went into business—opened up a ladies dress shop specializing in bridals in Johnson City. We carried the store for 38 years, enjoyed the many friends, the customers who I've made a lot of friends with. I belong to many clubs and do a lot volunteer work, Business and Professional Women's Clubs for, that's in Triple Cities, Johnson City Catholic Daughters, Civic Club, Our Ladies of Lebanon Club, American Civic Association, and was also President of Business and Professional Club and President, twice, Ladies of Lebanon Club. I have enjoyed being active in the community, made many, many, many friends. In 1972, I closed my business and went to Lebanon on two trips. It was very enjoyable because I never knew Lebanon too well, which is my mother country. Because we—little girls didn't travel too much at that time, so we would spend the summer months there and winter months in Egypt, as I said before. Therefore, it was a new experience for me, and I think it was the most beautiful country. It makes you feel sad that what has  happened to it during the past three years. Now, I was married in 1970 to Louis Frieje, and we've been very, very happy, and I still meet a lot of my friends. I belong, still, to all of the clubs. It is most enjoyable that part of my life and my business was making friends. Now, I don't know what else you’d like to know. I— Nettie: Marie, did your husband have a business of his own? Marie: Yes, he had but is retired. Nettie: What type of business did he have? Marie: He was in the restaurant business. Nettie: What restaurant was that? Marie: Freije Grill on Clinton St. That's where all his brothers had their businesses—Freije Electric, Freije Wall and Paint Store—and they have all retired, of course, and they are enjoying life very, very much. At the present time, there's something—may be of interest to you, being that we have no children, either him or I—we sponsored my husband's grandnephew from Lebanon to come here and live with us and put him through school. He came in 1976, December of '76. In 1977—January, we put him through Broome Tech, where he is a student now, studying Electric Technology and Computer and English. He will graduate in two years. In 1977 he had met a lovely Lebanese girl, who is a Lab Technician at Lourdes Hospital, and were married and living with us. They are a delightful couple. It is good to have young people around the house because I have always loved children—my nieces and nephews are like my own children. We are a very closely knit family—both the Freijes and my family by the name of Nejame. My brother, my younger brother who was in business, and his family is still running the business in Johnson City—which is called Hi-Fi Record and Tape Shop. They have had it for about 40 years, also. My brother is deceased, therefore, the children are running the business and have been very successful also, very well known through the area. Nettie: Oh, that sounds very interesting and I think that was very nice of you to sponsor someone like that, to make someone happy plus yourself. Marie: We're delighted to do that. Nettie: Marie, why don't you tell me more about the store—go into the store—I think it was fascinating. Marie: The gown shop—my gown shop, of course, after 21 years I gave up the bridals and went into sportswear—mainly as the sportswear business was flourishing and that was the thing to do. Besides, after my brother passed away in 1959—ah 1947, I beg your pardon—it was, you know, I have to run the business all alone, and of course, it was difficult to work nights and days, also. So, I turned it into a sportswear business and I loved it very much. I finally was getting a little too old to run it anymore. (Laughing). I'm 70 years old now—so I thought it was time to relax and pay attention to my music and to my wonderful husband, and we've done some traveling, of course.  We went twice to Lebanon since I was married, in 1970 and 1972. We were going back to Lebanon in 1974 and the war broke, so that took care of that. And—but—really—due to my—in regards to my business, thank God, we had a very successful business and as I see my customers, now, all over the Triple Cities when I meet them on the streets, markets, and in clubs which I am still very active, they—I'm almost ashamed to say it, but they do miss my store very much. Nettie: Yes, we all do, Marie. Marie: I certainly made many hundreds of friends, and in fact it, just about two weeks ago I had my, as a guest here, my first bride whom I outfitted—very, very first one. When I got married she sent me a prayer, in a picture—framed picture which I have in my kitchen, and I see her every morning, noon, and night. (Laughing). And she visited me last—two weeks ago, and we had a very good time altogether—reminiscence over friends and over old times and what have you. Nettie: Sounds interesting—Marie—I’m sorry—pardon me. Marie: When I came here, not knowing that we were to remain here in this country, and so—after I went to school—and we all loved it here, and my mother, father, and my three brothers—I'm the only girl and the youngest in the family—imagine me, 70 years old, the youngest in the family. (Laughing). So, but, my intention was to be a concert pianist, turned out to be in business. (Laughing). Nettie: In business—you did very well. Marie: Certainly. Nettie: We do miss you! Marie: But I still love my music. I follow it up—have time to practice— Nettie: Something you love— Marie: Yes, yes, I do! Nettie: Marie, will you tell me about the Lebanese people—their culture, traditions, maybe some foods? Marie: Well, yes, now, that's something of great interest—were that now—when I got married, I didn't know a thing about cooking—(Laughing)—because I never had the time for it, but since then I have became a gourmet cook—even in Arabic—in our Lebanese food—and I love it. Of course, now, you know they—the last few years, they’ve been talking so much about—[door bell rings]. That's all right. [pause] Nettie: Marie, we'll continue now. Marie: As I started to tell you before—the last few years they—been talking about health foods and health food stores opening up—even the markets are starting to carry health foods. Our Lebanese people—the culture—we’ve been raised on health foods since we were children, and we still do. Take, for instance, your wheat germ—that, they sell today and tell you how to do it—your lentils—it's all health food stores—health foods—and yogurt, which has become very popular, they are talking so much about it as being very healthy. This is something that we have lived on—all our life. Our bread is made with the health—what you call flour—is very healthy food. We—the Lebanese cook mostly at home rather than go out to eat, because we have such variety. Now, at our table you'll find three kinds of olives, two different kinds of cheeses that we make out of the yogurt—we make the hard cheese that looks like the American cream cheese, for instance, but a little bit tarty—we have oil on the side with it, our cheese, which I learned to make myself, and all this—so—all our preserves, jams—we make ourselves—and in our food you have, in one dish you could have a balanced meal. You have your sauté meat, which we use mostly lamb rather than beef—we use very little beef—except for roasts, you know—and have your meat—your vegetable—could be okra, could be asparagus, could be peas or beans, and with tomato sauce—that's your main dish, and cooked rice—on the side—not boiled—but it’s cooked so that it would have a flavor to it, you know—butter—and—so—and a salad. Therefore, you have a balanced meal right there, you see—but no Lebanese table is complete unless you have your olives and cheese on the table after you have your regular meal. That, you'll find that practically in every Lebanese home. And we have a tremendous variety of dishes—tremendous. I don't think you will find that in a, really, many European or American dishes—great variety. As I said before, it's all health food. Now in regards to our way of living—mode of living—we are very—Lebanese people are a very close-knit together—very friendly and really very highly educated. You never hear of any Lebanese, whether in this town or any town, that has gone wrong—that has gone to jail, that has done any destructiveness or anything—you hardly hear anything like that—good law-abiding citizens, and very friendly and very active. Most of the Lebanese people in this town, especially, in the area, are in business and are successful and have a good name—I'll vouch for that. Wherever you go, it really is the same thing—there—the ladies are very cooperative and friendly and take good care of themselves and their families—they dress very well. Nettie: Marie, you are a very good example of what you are saying. Marie: Thank you. Anything else you'd like to know? Nettie: Well, do you have any other recollections you would like to tell me? Marie: Well, you might like to have a little idea how we spent our years in Arabia—during the First World War. Nettie: That would be interesting. Marie: Excuse me, as I said before, we were in Lebanon and we couldn't get out because they closed the Mediterranean Sea, so we had to stay there. My uncle, that is my mothers's brother, who was a general in the, then Syrian Army, at the time. Because after the First World War Syria and Lebanon were divided—see—and so we—he sent us to Arabia—not Saudi Arabia—this Arabia is another section beyond Syria, and of course, I was only about six years old at the time, and over there, in Arabia, the Sheiks happen to be very dear friends of my uncle in Egypt, who was the Secretary of the Sudan. You hear a lot about Sudan these days—Sudan at the time was under the, both Egypt and Sudan was under the English government, and my uncle was Secretary to the Sirdar, like a governor—the government—you know—Sirdar, they call it. He was a very prominent man—in fact, was decorated by the Queen Victoria. And from there, my brother, Fred, who was only seventeen years old at the time, and my younger brother, Arthur, and my mother and I, we were there for three years. Through these Sheiks, my brother Fred, who was working for the Emir Faisal in the—means “Prince”—Faisal of Arabia, who later became King of a—ah—ah—Arabia (Iraq), and he was working with Lawrence of Arabia and was decorated by Emir Faisal, and through him we were able to get to Egypt on an English boat—English war boat—we—ah— Did you ever see the Lawrence of Arabia movie? Nettie: Yes, I did. Marie: Well, that's us—there. (Laughing). Yeah—that experience, I have pictures and see—but I forgot this part—where we're leaving Arabia—we went on camel back for nine days. The year before, I take this back, the year before, my brother Fred took my young brother, Arthur, too, and put him in school in Egypt and he came back. The following year, Mother and I and Fred we went to—we're going back to Egypt, and we stayed at Faisal’s in the Aqaba area—that's another part of the picture where—and we went on camel’s back for nine days and nine nights and he had, he was coming back—see, to Arabia to take the soldiers—we had 600 camels and 900 soldiers—and we—day before we're to arrive in Aqaba—where Emir Faisal was—he—we—had outlaws hitting us with a—that's which called machine—caravan—with sub-machine guns, and I was riding the dromedary—I made my brother valet, must as well call them valet, pulling them on the camel—you know—make him walk—and I went on dromedary—that's the one—the hump—you know—dromedary, and because where I was before—I was riding on the camel with my mother—made like a tent—see—my mother on one side and me on the other. You know how little girls, they get—(Laughing)—as flat as I was—I get fidgety—I wanted to drive by the dromedary so as we were riding, and these sub-machines came at us—the bullet just passed my face and he grabbed me and threw me down—luckily we were going down into a little valley—which is unusual in a desert, you know—and of course, of all crew came out with machine guns, and they—we escaped those outlaws, and then that night we were in tents and they're going to kidnap me—see, they had me dressed as a boy—and in fact, later on, King Faisal presented me with a dagger, which I still have, yet. And my brother, too, he took his own dagger, which only carried by royalty, was put here on display in Binghamton and Johnson City when we first came here—was written up in the Press. It was a really beautiful thing, which my nephew has now—Fred's son in New York. And it was really quite, quite an ordeal, to—well—especially after I saw the Lawrence of Arabia, I said, "Dear, if only my brother was here." Nettie: To see that— Marie: To see that, you know, he died but we had quite a fascinating life. Nettie: I think it is—what should I say, “exciting”? It was very exciting. Marie: Yes—yeah—yeah, but—The reason we came here, my brother Fred, who was, after the war—when we were in Egypt already—he was working for the French Embassy, through my uncle who was a doctor. He was in politics a lot, so he got him a job at the French Embassy. But what happened, we had to escape here, and because the King's entourage—they were all Muslims, and he was the only Christian amongst them, so—of course—there was that jealousy—they were after him—after his neck—that, for my uncle sent him over here, because my brother and my dad were here, see. My brother—was—my oldest brother was at Columbia University, and so—ah—we came here—we had to escape from these people who were after him—you know—so that when they came here for a year or so—maybe they'll, you know, forget all about him, and then my younger brother—we put him in school, so—went, let's see, on 1918-1922, and they were here—and the, so we thought we'd come, my mother and I, would come here—my aunts and uncles did not want us to come here at all. She said, “Even if I die on the boat, I want to go and see my children and bring them back, and my husband." So, we finally came in 1922, and we stayed here and we liked it very much that we never went back, our family was here. Nettie: Marie, that was exciting. Marie: See, my father came here before the war—because he came to visit his brother—he had his business here. He was a cabinet maker in Lebanon, and he came—his business was still going on—he came to visit his brother—then the war broke, so he didn't go back, and he stayed here throughout the whole war, then I didn't know my father until I came to this country, now my oldest brother— So it was an quite exciting life—a wonderful life together. Nettie: Guess so— Marie: Wonderful life together. We are a closely knit family—we all live together—we— Nettie: I thought the Lebanese were that way. I think it is very nice. Marie: Like the young lady from Harpur was interviewing me about the—our people—especially our old people. She said—I said, “We don't throw out our old people—we take care of them.” I said my mother was 92 years old, and my sister-in-law and I took care of her. None of our Lebanese people put our old people in nursing homes or forget about them—they always live with one of the children, they are well taken care of, which is something we are proud of—it is our background—we can't help it. Nettie: I think if some of our children, some of our people took heed on people like that—maybe they would turn their life around and make nice things, different for the elderly. Marie: Sure, they must remember that they, they're gonna be old someday. How would they like to be thrown out any old way in a nursing home or private home of some sort? Because, well, it just isn't right—that’s all, the fact that we’ll all get old, what’s going to happen to us. Nettie: You have to think ahead, too. Marie: This way your children would know how your grandparents were taken care of, and maybe they would learn a thing or two and just pass down the generations. Yes, that's something our generation of foreign extraction should never forget, their culture of their heritage. Nettie: I agree with you. Marie: They should be proud of it. There's a book written by Ted Roosevelt, and one of the passages is, "If you were not—uh—uh—this—you could only make a good American citizen if you don't forget your heritage.” Nettie: That's very nice. Marie: That's, we loved this country—that's why we remained here, and you can't beat this country anywhere in the world, but we still love our country, too. And we're proud to say we're Lebanese. You could be proud to say your own background from which your parents came from, should never forget it. Believe me, I think the American people—we're all American now, but outside of the Indians, naturally, they respect us more now because they understand us more, the world is getting smaller, you know, so—they appreciate the various cultures of the different nationalities of their background, you know, and all of us should be very proud of it and not be ashamed of. Nettie: I know I am. Marie: We make good citizens, even though we were not born here, we abide by the law, I'm sure all foreign extraction people do—so people are very interested. (Laughing). Nettie: Is that all you want to tell me? Is there anything you want to add to that? Marie: Well, let me see now. All I can say, I'm a little sorry I'm not a little younger so I could go back into business— Nettie: That's right—I know what you mean. And start all over again. Marie: Thank God I have my health, have my good husband, my comfortable home. I love my music, and I still am active in all the clubs and help people and everything else. Our Lebanese club is a small club, but active in the community, we hold a dance in the Fall always—and the proceeds go to St. Jude's Hospital for the children—retarded children, and then we hold a card party in the spring—that's for our scholarship fund—we give the three high schools and any student that school feels needs it—you know—give three, three scholarships—that's about it—you know. Nettie: Marie, that was very interesting, and I want to thank you very much for the interview. Marie: I want to thank you for asking me. I hope it's worth your while. Nettie: I'm sure it is. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55916">Interview with Marie Nejame Freije</a> Date of Interview 1978-03-06 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Freije, Marie Nejame Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:13 Minutes Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Freije, Marie Nejame -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Lebanon; Johnson City (N.Y.); Bridal shops; Businesswomen -- Interviews; Cooking, Lebanese; World War, 1914-1918 Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. 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Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marie Nejame Freije, Part 1 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Freije, Marie Nejame ; Politylo, Nettie Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Subject The topic of the resource Freije, Marie Nejame -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Lebanon; Johnson City (N.Y.); Bridal shops; Businesswomen -- Interviews; Cooking, Lebanese; World War, 1914-1918 Description An account of the resource Marie Nejame Freije talks about her upbringing in Lebanon, and her family's flight from the country to Egypt due to war and the grueling nine day journey that almost killed her. She discusses running a bridal shop in Johnson City, NY after coming to the United States. After 38 years, she retired and married. She details Lebanese culture and foods, as well as the fundraisers in which she participates that benefits St. Jude's Hospital and area high school students. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-06 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 24 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:15 Minutes ; 16:46 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/4d5bbd5ad44990c839605d73f46a2814.mp3 ab42272e6141cfd0065e2d1381398db2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56938">Interview with Mabel Quick</a> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:49 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Material Type Sound Subject LCSH Quick, Mabel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mabel H. Quick Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 13 March 1978 Susan: Miss Quick, could you tell us something about your early beginnings, where you were born and some of your recollections of your childhood? Miss Quick: Yes, I could. I’d be glad to. I was born in Scranton way back in 1893. I grew up in West Pittston where my father was a dentist. Later we moved to Nichols, NY, and I grew up in the West Pittston schools under the name of John but when I reached New York State I was told that if I had another name I should use it because I was going to take Regents so in this community where I am now I became known with my old name Mabel. I taught school after graduating from Cortland in Johnson City for 40 long years but we really taught then we had classes that we were proud to pass on they could read—they could write—and teaching was wonderful. We were only earning $500 a year but we could with our increments reach $1800 a year that was the limit that we could go. Well, I lived here in Johnson City came here in 1917 when I started my teaching and this was a lovely town then to be a part of to live in and it really was a pleasure. Things have changed here now—old buildings have disappeared and new ones in their place but it’s still a place I’d like to live a long long time. I came from good old English stock. The Quick name comes—a the Quicks really came from England although they say we have Irish and Dutch mixed in a little bit and my ancestors missed the Mayflower by 2 years. They went to Holland and I tell the girls we missed the Mayflower by two years and we’re missing things ever since but we get along the Quicks are kind of lively people and they settled—helped settle this country. I’m proud of that it’s a heritage that a lot of people don’t have and we do have old Tom Quick my ancestor the first one to come over from England, Holland bought Staten Island from the Indians for a bolt of cloth. The Quick silver is now in the Metropolitan Museum and a there’s an old chest desk in a museum in New Jersey made by old Tom was given to George Washington and signed. I wish I had that but of course I don’t but I have seen it and Tom’s oldest son got along beautifully with the Indians until they moved to Milford, Pennsylvania now. Another family came in and there was trouble over land grants and the Indians killed old Tom so Tom Jr. as we would say today sought revenge and he killed so many Indians that the government let him alone. He was not drafted for the Civil—a for the Revolutionary War and finally Tom got smallpox and died. The Indians couldn’t understand why he was put in the ground so they dug him up to see if he was dead and of course not having the techniques of medicine we have now the germs were still there the Indians caught the smallpox and Tom killed them even after he was dead. He is now—a the records we have in Cooperstown he is the character Natty Bumppo (clears throat) of ah (clears throat again) pardon me in James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales so I have a good line. I’m proud of it. I joined the D.A.R., the Daughters of the Founders of the Patriots of America, the Daughters of the Colonial Colonial Colonies of America and now I expect sometime to go further with the Huguenots of the Colonial days. It’s a privilege and an honor as I see it. Many people would like to join but can’t. Their line is not complete but I like the genealogy and am glad that I have the opportunity of being one of the early American families. In school well perhaps I shouldn’t get into that too much it was really good in the old days. I don’t know what they’re teaching them today but I am proud and glad that I taught in the early days when we could really see and know and have the experience of realizing that we had taught the children to pick up a book and read it and know what they read. Today I wonder what they are doing. I wouldn’t want to go back and find out. I see it all over I don’t think that they could pull me back with a hay rake but I’m glad that I have lived all these 85 years and had the experiences I’ve had. Susan: Could you tell us a little about your hobby? Miss Quick: Yes, I have a very wonderful hobby. You know when I was teaching when I first started to teach I’d come home from school and I’d—I’d go in the kitchen—I thought food dropped into position on the table and I thought if I would go in the kitchen well maybe they’ll (clears throat) teach me to do something. When I’d reach the kitchen my aunt and my mother both wonderful cooks would say now, “Enough good cooks in the kitchen—we don’t need you.” So I got so I wouldn’t go into the kitchen I wouldn’t even come home from school, I’d patronize the antique shops because I like old things and I walked in one day to an antique shop I saw a doll lying face down. The dress was open at the back and it said, “Remember who wrote this when far away.” Well, I was intrigued so that started a wonderfully good collection. I now have between well around 400 dolls with all related items such as doll carriages and hats and furniture and chests and beds, cradles, chairs everything that might have been played with years and years ago. I’ve written an article which is being published in the Federated Doll News Magazine. I belong to two doll clubs and I have sent colored slides of my carriage in an article entitled “A Buggy for Dolly.” In each of the 35 carriages I had a lot of fun putting in a da—a doll a period that would go with the carriage one has a Charity Smith Kitty Cat the other a teddy bear and it was well received. They said it was a delightfully different approach to doll collecting. I’ve met so many wonderful people through this hobby. I’ve had exhibits oh many exhibits and a right now presently there is an exhibit (clock chimes) of the Easter parade and—and a that Roberson wanted for their Easter attraction and they came down and selected the dolls for that a occasion. At Easter time they wanted a big exhibit for their Christmas Forest so I gave them—they also came and selected what they wished and it was they told me about 2,000 people saw that. I’ve been guests at various clubs, doll clubs around the state and as I said before you meet the most charming people and I’ve enjoyed it I think that’s what has kept me going of course the family was after a while different ones the family was large my aunt, my uncle, my mother were here my sister she was an invalid for 11 years and after they all went it was a—a well even during the time when they were ill it was a life saver it sort of keeps you going. You have something to look forward to something to do and even if you don’t do it one day it’s there for the future and it what I have I think will preserve and give people an idea of what really was played with what the children really had whether they played with them or no. It was right for the period in which these very very old ladies grew up with. Susan: Children formed more attachment to their a— Miss Quick: When have you seen a child wheeling a doll carriage? You might see one in a store but I wouldn’t call it a doll carriage. I have the little old wooden carriages made by Joel Ellison and signed by him in the sixties. I have many wooden box carriages some made by the Whitney Carriage Co. and I also have a chests that are signed 1846. These were usually homemade things the little chests and beds and you don’t see it anymore children are—well it keeps production going now. They buy it today the child plays with it tomorrow and the next day it’s out broken and they go back and get another production is— Susan: Everything is plastic now. Miss Quick: Everything is plastic. There will I don’t know it isn’t saying really goodbye to the old but it’s trying now these people who would like to collect. They just have to take from what is given today and decide whether or not it will ever be collectible and will really last as the old things of—of yesteryear have done but I’m glad I have what I have. It gives me great deal of pleasure and it also gives pleasure to others. Susan: Well, is there anything more that you would like to add? Miss Quick: I can’t think of anything more. I think that a we’ve about covered it. Susan: Well, thank you very much for the interview Miss Quick it’s been very interesting. Miss Quick: I’ve enjoyed it. I really have enjoyed it and as I say I meet such interesting people. Susan: We do. Thank you. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Quick, Mabel Biographical Text Mabel Quick speaks about growing up near Scranton and later in Nichols, N.Y. She discusses living and teaching in Johnson City. She discusses her ancestors coming to America from Europe, with particular focus on Tom Quick, her ancestor who purchased Staten Island from Native Americans. She discusses her membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution and related associations. She is an avid doll collector and has over 400 dolls with associated accessories; she discusses this collection and activities in which she participates related to this hobby. Date of Interview 1978-03-13 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mabel Quick Description An account of the resource Mabel Quick speaks about growing up near Scranton and later in Nichols, N.Y. She discusses living and teaching in Johnson City. She discusses her ancestors coming to America from Europe, with particular focus on Tom Quick, her ancestor who purchased Staten Island from Native Americans. She discusses her membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution and related associations. She is an avid doll collector and has over 400 dolls with associated accessories; she discusses this collection and activities in which she participates related to this hobby. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Quick, Mabel; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 77 Subject The topic of the resource Quick, Mabel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16:49 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0679fd5183c56f0e3a93eaff7f9bf3e9.mp3 52e24382258e130cb44e03fd7faa8c0a https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/87ef3c21a573d0ab7b2fef20f461b624.mp3 aa9b63d384f73252bca20899177233b2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d883ca1daa761ad52df58c07cb695190.mp3 effebd5b659aa58b01be01c9a9279639 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Titchner, Dorothy Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:54 Minutes ; 11: 28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56042">Interview with Dorothy Titchener</a> Subject LCSH Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dorothy Titchener Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 15 March 1978 [Tape #1] Dan: Mrs. Titchener, will you tell me about your life and working experiences in the community starting with your place of birth? Mrs. Titchener: Well I was born, I do remember that and I had to look up ah I didn’t have to look up when because I’m 80 years old and that was a shock to me—I couldn’t believe it. I was born in Washington, D.C. in 1897, Washington, D.C., and ah my father was the 2nd cousin of ah Mark Twain—Samuel Clemens and so I presume I would be 3rd cousin because his mother, Mark Twain’s mother, was a Jane Lampton and that was my maiden name was Lampton. In England, they came from England, and it was spelled Lambton but with the nasal quality of the American voice why it was translated to Lampton. I went to school in Washington, D.C., a French school, and I majored in French and Dramatics and Writing. It had started in kindergarten—marched down and informed them that I was coming to school because it was on the street where I was born and the later went to ah Bennett Junior College for 2 years and graduated from there and I studied Drama under Charles M. Kennedy and ah Edith M. Mathewson. They were old time ah artists in that field and I was offered a part in The Blue Bird ah Betrothal which was a sequel to The Blue Bird really really to offer, whereupon my mother snatched me back to Washington. I’m very glad she did because I never would have met my husband Paul, who was in the Army then and came to Washington and it was there I met him and I have 3 children—James, my son is a psychiatrist and he is attached to the University of Cincinnati and he is a research psychiatrist and also he is lately by the Government—he’s a Fellow which is supposed to be as high as he can go. I know he gets $1000.00 every time he opens his mouth and I get $1000.00 if I shut mine, I think—I guess the general feeling of my family but anyway he’s done very very well and he was a rather shy child and I’m sorry that Paul didn’t know how famous he has become. He’s traveled all over the world because he is the head member of the disaster group and what they do is to go around and try to improve people’s morale when these terrible disasters happen, such as mine disasters and this horrible fire in Kentucky nightclub and so forth, and I have a daughter, Ann, and she is head of one ah private school in Maryland and was one of the first integrated schools in Maryland—she’s just recently become—she worked there as a teacher and they have a great many, ah, both Black and white students and teachers. It’s completely integrated and they say that any child can take any kind of course. They will offer anything the child needs or wants and so she has many of the Congressional children in the school. They bus them in—it’s outside in near her home in Maryland, and then I have a second daughter, Jean, and she lives in Salt Lake City and she works considerably in civic affairs there in Salt Lake and also she teaches in a Presbyterian kindergarten school both morning and afternoon with children. She perhaps is more like me. Ann is like her father—Ann has a good business head and I should say after Jean, is more like me. Well that about wraps up my family—oh I have eleven grandchildren—mustn’t forget all those and they’re ah they’re all—I only have one married—one girl married and ah this is kind of interesting because she was ah a very independent person and I’m very fond of her and they’ve decided, she married a man in the forestry service and they are now living in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, in a summer cabin 5 miles from Bonners Ferry with no utilities whatsoever, not even water and they think it’s wonderful and they’re trying to buy 20 acres of land there and grow all their own food and then she’s going to be ah she’s studying her biology and she’s going to be a doctor and heal everybody with herbs and she grinds all her own food. Now she was a girl who was brought up on New York City—her family moved to Salt Lake and then I have another daughter in New York, granddaughter who’s trying to go on the stage and naturally that’s a very difficult field to enter. I’ve tried to persuade her to do radio or something else and creep in but No she’s decided that’s what she wanted to do so that’s about, that takes care of the family, I guess. Now ah you asked me about different clubs I belong to. I had to list them because I couldn’t remember what I did belong to—what I didn’t. Some I think I just went and some I belonged to—anyway I belong to Monday Afternoon Club, the Civic Club, Shakespeare Club—this is local, the League of Women Voters—now that I had trouble with because they study everything and I’m a person of action because if somebody tells me I can’t do it—that’s the one thing I do. In, in civic work, I can’t wait for them to mess around with the red tape and so on and so I had trouble with them because they sent me out to do some speaking for a certain proposition that they wished to have the people know about and I thought I was supposed to get them to ah pass it. So I came back jubilantly to tell them that these three places I’d been had all voted on it and agreed to do it, whereupon ah they almost invited me out of the organization, because they were supposed to study it two more years or something. I think they’re one of the best clubs in the city, I really do, and think they do a great deal of good. It simply was not my nature to go along that way—I’m not criticizing them in any way. I belong to the American Civic Association, I’m an Honorary member of Zonta, I belong to the Business and Professional Women’s Club, where I have been very active and the Junior League, the Girl’s Club, the YMCA—I was on the Board of that, then the Children’s Services Society and the Girl Scouts Council and the Housing Authority ah for 20 years and ah I’m going into detail but these are the main and I was the first, one of the first, for three years the first organizing group of Opportunities for Broome, when it was first organized, I was on that Board, so I think that takes care of that part. Well now I have something that I say, this was personal and I think I’ll take that for last because I would like to go into what I have done, special events that I have done and I have to start probably with the Junior League because that’s the first organization I joined when I came here and we were—I was never President of the Junior League but I was on the Board because I was always ah was theater chairman and I wrote ah children’s plays and acting in it and then I directed several children’s plays that we had and then I think one of the most exciting things we did was we wanted to raise some money, when we took over the ah day nursery as a project. As you know, the Junior League is an all volunteer work and we took this over as a project. We wanted to raise some money to do some good work there and really improve their facilities—so we ah I suggested we take the Binghamton Press for one evening and ah sell the papers and do all the advertising and get the money from the advertising and so forth and I was editor of it and then with other members of the League, we did and we sold the papers on the street and Jim Farley happened to be in town that day and I sold him one for $10.00 and I said, “You mean your boss isn’t worth more than that?” but anyway he gave us $10.00 and we raised about $1500.00 to $2000.00 and incidentally, we paid the newsboys their regular fee—we didn’t cut them out of the money they received that day—so we did that for two years and I went down to Washington where I—because I knew more people still in Washington—I know many of the older ones now—the new ones I don’t know very well, but I did know because my father was interested in politics and really enjoyed it—he never was a politician—he was a sort of a politician at home but he wasn’t in politics but he loved them. So I got in to see President Franklin Roosevelt and he gave me a perfectly beautiful letter congratulating the Junior League on doing this which of course made the front pages of the Binghamton Press and the second year we did it, we couldn’t go back to him again so we went to Governor Lehman, he was Governor of New York State and we had a letter similar to the one ah Franklin Roosevelt wrote and so that enhanced the sale of the papers of course. These two letters were very important and we did make around $2000.00-$2500.00 each time. $1500.00 first and then money kept coming in and we did as I said get all the money from the advertising we solicited—so that was quite successful. So that was one thing in Junior League that had not in—also I, I like to add that several plays and I went to many conferences with this Junior League and I enjoyed it thoroughly and I won the first ah Silver Cup that Esther Couper, Mrs. Edward Couper, was then President of the Club but her mother gave a Silver Bowl—not a cup, it was a bowl—and it was given to the person who had done the most for the League in that year. I think probably Esther should have had it but because it was her mother’s cup, I fortunately won it and it’s still in existence and people are still winning it year after year. I think that it has so many names on it I thought they ought to give me the old one because I was the first but they didn’t do that. They bought another bowl and they’re going on with it so that was that and then let’s see, I think the next thing that I did was Scouting—that was really coincidental with the ah Junior League because I hadn’t been in town more than a month when Paul and I were both put on the ah Council—the Girl Scout Council and ah it seems that they needed a Commissioner, they called the President a Commissioner and ah so they appointed me—elected me I guess it was, about the month after I went on the Board so that was fun because I had always—I love the out of doors. I’ve been to girl’s camp, I taught dancing and was always for the outdoor things—hiking, swimming, and I loved the out of doors, so I liked Girl Scouting and I forced my two girls to naturally to go in. But they were trying to find a camp and they had been trying for 10 years to find a site. So one Sunday, Paul and I said, “Let’s go out and buy a camp”—so without telling anyone, we went out, we took a flat iron—we heard there was a little lake off out of Deposit in the hills there and we trudged up there and ah sure enough there was a lake and so we had an old leaky rowboat sitting there by the dock—we got in it and rode out and dumped this iron in—it went down so we said, “This is a beautiful lake, just beautiful, we’ll buy it,” so we went down to Deposit, found out who owned it and put a deposit on it, personal, and then came back and told the Council that we had bought this lake and it was perfectly beautiful. We built it up to the point where they couldn’t say it wasn’t. It was a very nice camp and they since enlarged it and to name it we ah both first how, how to build the thing, we had a cocktail party and we had it 3 days before the big blowup in the ah stock market and so we told everyone if they would give us $500.00 for a cabin, their names would go on the cabin and we raised $29,000.00 at that cocktail party and it was 3 days after that, that we took all their checks to the bank and they were all broke—not really but I mean everybody lost money as you know—so that’s the way we built the camp and then later they had enlarged it and they’ve done wonders with it—it’s beautiful. Dan: What was the name of it? Mrs. Titchener: We named it Amahami and this was funny too. Ah, Charles Curtis was Vice President of the United States and he was part Indian, so I wrote him a letter and asked him to sent us some Indian names—he was to come up the night we actually named it but he couldn’t make it, however we selected Amahami—much to my sorrow—because they always called it “I’M a mommy” and blamed it on me but anyway that’s just one of—it isn’t very and I, this is ah sort of an offshoot—the other night I spoke at the Business and Professional Women’s Club about past things and this very young looking girl steps up to the rostrum and she’s making a plea for the Girl Scouts and she said, “I don’t suppose any of you know much about them,” and I’m sitting next to her and I poked her and said, “Well I was Commissioner for 7 years,” then later she goes on to say, “Well at Carlisle Housing Project, sometimes the girls can’t pay their registration,” and so again I, she said, “I know none of you here probably know much about what Carlisle is—it’s a Public Housing Project.” I said, “Well I only ran it for 20 years, but that’s all—here’s 2 bucks for a kid for Carlisle,” but that has nothing to do with the work but anyway it was funny after all these years—of course she’s very young—she never heard of me. Anyway I was commissioner for 7 years and then I retired from that. Well then I guess the next thing that I did was to get into ah I didn’t from housing to that did I, Yes I guess I did. I think I was—I didn’t know there was such a thing as public housing in Binghamton—had no idea there was but all of a sudden one day the telephone rang and it was ah Mayor Kramer and he said, “Would I come on the ah Housing Authority as a member?” and I said, “What is it?” He said, “Well we have these housing projects and I’ll take you around and show them to you,” and I said, “Well I’ll come on,” so I came on and ah soon as I, again I always seem to fall under these things without anybody’s knowledge or desire but anyway all of a sudden they had no head of the housing, no commissioner there for head of the housing, so all of a sudden they had this meeting and Paul was sitting there and he said, “I don’t want Dorothy to do this”—they had both men and women on the council then. All right, all of a sudden I’m elected and I’m chairman of the Housing Authority. Well I think that was probably the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me because I loved it, I just loved it and they had just the two then—they had Saratoga Terrace which is on the south side and they had Carlisle which was at the East end. Dan: Moeller Street? Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, Moeller Street. Anyway, I went to a meeting at the—I was taken up there and looked at the place—it looks like a college campus because it’s quite pretty—it was and so I go. I come to this meeting and I had told everyone that I was to meet them all so please, if they could get off from work, I’d like to meet the men as well as the women, well come. Well the place was jammed. So I stand up there and I said, “I’ve come to give you some news,” and from the back of the room, rose this great burly guy and he said, “Who the blank do you think you are?” and I said, “Well that’s a good question and maybe I came here to find out.” Well that sort of settled them down. What I really came to tell them was, it seems that they had a painting cycle of the apartments every 3 years and they went down the north side in yellow and the south side in green—period. And I thought that was horrible because any woman who has a home, reacts to color and it isn’t theirs unless they can have what they want. So I had arranged with the State Division of Housing, that is the State operated ah housing—the Saratoga Terrace is and I had arranged with them early to try this—of picking out the number bedrooms and the number of colors they wanted from a chart that happened to be pastel colors and they said I was crazy but finally they agreed with me I could do it. So I told them I had come to really announce that—that they could but I had 3 weeks to get in all their colors—all of their choices and they couldn’t change them once they started because I would order X number of blue, be all of this stuff you see. So they came and in less than 4 days every member there—there were 254 apartments and everybody had come and picked out in 4 days the colors they wanted and the Division, New York State Division was just astounded and the painter said it was, it was the easiest job he ever had. Once in a while he got chicken and he did change some of the colors—well because he had some but that made a great difference. Well then I, well then I found myself an interior decorator because they all came and said, “Well look, ah, Mrs. Titchener, now we don’t know, we have this and that then we put this new color on, would you help us, we can get some.” So I went to the different stores and got bolts of material—I got somebody who knew how to sew, to come up and help them and we had meetings at night and they made new curtains and they made and they covered their furniture and they went at it in a big way and the material was all donated by various stores—bolts of material, not expensive but nice and clean. So the place really did look just beautiful and they were—well, from there on I had them, you know what I mean because I had been, I had done something unusual for them. Dan: You gained their confidence. Mrs. Titchener: Yes and I gained their confidence, and so there I was right on top of the heap and I really loved it and it was funny because it was the first time in my life I had seen like 50 kids all the same age playing together. We did put a little fountain in the front yard in memory of one of the ah managers who had died and when we put that in—it ran water, you know—constantly over and over the same and little Catholic children all came out and blessed themselves with it. It was a real cute little fountain but they, they didn’t pull up—we planted ah flowers, we had flower boxes and they didn’t pull them up, they really didn’t and we had a baseball team and we had it in our front yard because it was the only place we had that was level enough to have a field and we couldn’t buy them uniforms or anything and, ah, it was ah, I think Rockefeller when he was Governor, Nelson Rockefeller came down and came to visit it and he played ball with them and so instead of asking for his autograph, we gave him an autographed baseball of our team, which was a switch and they were thrilled with that and they were very excited and a very nice thing happened then. He went for coffee at a house, one of the apartments, a very nice girl and she had a child who had a growth on his eye and ah Nelson Rockefeller looked at it and he said, “I think that should be attended to.” She said, “Well I don’t know who to go to,” and he said, “Well I do and I’ll arrange for you to come up to Albany and see this man.” Well the child had a malignant growth there and it was removed and he was fine. So I like to tell that because it was such a nice thing for him to do and ah he noticed things like that. Well then also ah I think that, that’s about the only time he ever visited but we did many many things for them. We had art classes, we had dances, we had teas and when Jim Gaynor was then head of New York State Housing and he came up—we had a tea—and everybody was very much dressed up and I asked them please to wear their best clothes to serve the tea in the afternoon and I took all my stuff over—I had silver and napkins and lace cloth and all of my stuff and I lugged it over there. We fixed the place all up and we have a nice recreation room there, very nice, large and really very nice, so he said to me afterwards he said, “Who are all these girls, are they Junior League girls?” so I thought that was a nice compliment. We also had people come—Tony’s Hair Parlor, they came once in a while to show them how to do their hair and improve their looks, how to wash it. We had people come it—one thing that was very difficult when they went over, became over income and had to move—they would go out and get some well I would say fly-by-night realtor, someone who wasn’t expensive and he would just take all their money and end up it wasn’t what they wanted and then they’d lose it and then by that time, the place was full and they couldn’t come back. So we did start this, ah, evening course and we asked the Real Estate Board to send different people—I couldn’t pick out one realtor but they would come and give them some advice and then where they could get someone who would not mishandle them and it would be satisfactory. We had a banker come to teach them how to ah take care of their money—in fact one ah little girl who was married very young and her mother came and she brought all her monthly money in little packages. This was for this and this was for that and I was to give them out to her. Incidentally, I want to make it crystal clear that in the 20 years that I worked for Housing, I never was paid one solitary cent except for traveling that I did at their bequest and no one would believe that because I took the role of the Executive Director at many times and most of the time and I had ah that gave me a wonderful weapon because I could go to both the State and Federal Divisions and march in and say, “Now you owe me about $15,000 now and I’d like to put storm windows on,” or I’d like to fix this up and then I really had Mr. Gaynor blow a show when ah I asked was going to put—oh we built the second edition but that was the first thing that I had anything to do with the building and that was Saratoga Heights and ah up there we have, that’s up built on a hillside and I had to first I went to all this elderly groups here in town to say whether they, that we had one small group for the elderly, whether they would like to look at the parking lot or the beautiful view down the valley of the River. Well they chose the parking lot to have their, the community. They wanted to see what’s going on so that’s the way we built it but we did put a little garden that was walled off, not walled but had a fence around it and we had a greenhouse and Jim Gaynor said to me, “Dorothy, that greenhouse will not have a window in it 3 days from the day you put it up.” Well for 6 years, it was filled with flowers—we had one broken window by the wind—and it seemed that all the tenants used it. They came down—the elderly ran it and they’d come down and bring their plants they got for Christmas and that would be nice and they would put them in there and we went to all the greenhouses around in town and they have us seeds and plants and things and they were smart enough to go to all the funeral homes, because most of them used geraniums all through the summer and they’d go and get them and cut them and have slips and they had enough geraniums to cover their place and all three places, Carlisle and Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights—so that was very successful. I understand now that’s not in use but I don’t go there now. After I retired I just leave—I don’t want to talk about it at all. I mean I, I don’t feel I should say anything because people would simply comment that I was being bitter or something. Dan: What years were you— Mrs. Titchener: Well I was there in 1939 and 20 years, what would that be 20? Dan: ‘59. Mrs. Titchener: 30. Dan: ‘39 to ‘59 would be 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: ‘39 to, oh no no, I didn’t go in ‘39, what’s the matter with me—that’s when I ah yes it was, that’s when I was on the radio, I’m sorry. No I’m sorry that’s a mistake—I don’t know when I did go. Dan: When did you retire? We’ll go back 20 years. Mrs. Titchener: Well I went down, retired in ‘74. Dan: ‘74. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ok, so that would be ‘54. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, that’s better, that’s better, thank you. You can see I’m very good in arithmetic. No, 39, I, I had my profession with the very end what I did to make money—well that was really a great thing. Another thing they offered the Authority—we had 5 members—I had a marvelous Authority—there were 5 of us on it, including me and the State offered us ah, ah I think it was $1500 a year, if we wished, for traveling expenses and we turned it down every year because we felt that this was too good. People would want to come in to make that $1500. It would mean something to them and we refused it, although there were a couple of members on our authority who could well have used that money and I always felt they were so brave and fine not to take it because we felt it put us in a different category and this way we could say we are volunteering this—we were giving out time and energy. Another thing, it was a little difficult to run, in this respect, the people whom we hired could not make the going rate because we couldn’t afford to because our rentals were based on the person’s income and it wasn’t great I can tell you that, so we had to give them extra—I used to call them “bingebellet benefits” because we would let—we would close the office and all go to a party and go out for lunch and things like that and in some ways we were a very cohesive group and ah worked well together that way and it, a Bill Johnson, when he was the Master of Ceremonies when I retired and I always remember what he said—he said, “Dorothy would, her her opinion was—let’s do what we want to do, then tell them afterwards.” That’s about the way we did. We went on to, when we built the ah—the next thing we built after the Heights was the ah housing for the elderly on Exchange Street—the two high rise and I didn’t want them named because I though, I think that’s what some owner’s people know—Carlisle Hill you know instantly that’s public housing, I said, “Why shouldn’t they have an address just like I do?” Like Exchange Street and Isbell Street a number is the number of your apartment. So, after much consideration, I knew Ken McKenzie who has since died—he was on the authority and he said, “Well ah let’s call it the Senile Silo”—so we had a lot of bright ideas like that. Well we hired a man from New York because nobody had built high rise here—we had architects local for the other buildings but here no one had built high rises at that time. So ah a high rise built for ah one of the housing divisions was different from building it privately because you are, actually it is much better built than this building for instance because of the regulations and all the things that are there to help them—it’s very well built. Well anyway we had someone from and incidentally that was the day that we hired the contractor, the ah the ah architect I mean, for building of the high rise—it was a luncheon and ah that was the day my husband died that afternoon, very suddenly. Dan: What year was that Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Well when did he—don’t ask me dates like that—he died—he’s been dead 14 years. Dan: 14 years. Mrs. Titchener: February, 14 years this February so you can subtract that again. I flunked arithmetic, maybe you guessed that already. Dan: Well that’s all right— Mrs. Titchener: I’ll tell you 2 and 2 don’t make 4, especially if you have guinea pigs. Dan: For anyone who flunked arithmetic, you’ve certainly been successful. Mrs. Titchener: Well I ran, I often say that ah people didn’t realize what they were getting into because I ran about a 4, 5 or 6 million business you know with the total. Now I have something here that I’m going to read from because it does give you a really meaning account of what, what the public housing is and what I said about it and if you don’t mind I’m going to read it because I could go off on a tangent but this is when I went in ah took over the ah money raising for PAL and I didn’t really like that. I like PAL but I had nothing to say in that—it was all Tony Ruffo—wouldn’t—he ran it really. They used my name is what they did and any ideas they had why and unless I can—I’m not an artist but I’ve created, I have ideas and I put them through and I won’t I don’t stop until I finish them and this he didn’t like I think and so I didn’t enjoy that because and another thing I didn’t enjoy was that he went to the newspaper and he got my Obit and printed it—had it printed. It didn’t say I was dead but it did leave that off but the rest of it was pretty and this is what was taken from that really but it’s ah—I had many experiences in housing that were very exciting and very different. Incidentally ah once I ah was sitting there and ah we had an Executive Director there at that time, a woman and she was very good and I was sitting there when ah this Black man came in and he said he’d seen in the paper a Black woman had died there and he wanted that apartment and ah she very kindly told him that we had a waiting list and you had to put your name down and the gentleman that he brought in was very very inebriated—he was holding him up—so he finally looked at me and he said, “Oh I know who you are,” and I had a Cadillac at that time and he said, “I’m going to burn your Cadillac if you don’t give this gentleman this apartment,” and I called him by name and I said, I’ll say Joe but it wasn’t, I said, “Joe, go ahead,” and I flipped him some matches I said, “It’s right outside the door here and here’s the matches.” He disappeared with the gentleman immediately. That was one thing that happened and another night we had a meeting at Saratoga and I had two men there and we had tenants meetings once a month to make it—tell all their grievances and we had the various ones try and answer them and help them out and so forth and we had ah, ah, I had a word from the Society, oh, what do you call it? Ah, dope. What do you call ‘em—have names, I can’t think anyway. Dan: Narcotics. Mrs. Titchener: Narcotics—that’s what I’m trying, that’s the word I’m trying to think of, anyway the head of the Narcotics Division here called me and said he understood there was an apartment there that they were dispensing it and they didn’t know exactly where it was and asked me to try and find out. Well I had a suspicion so I did find out and they later proclaimed that that was right and the sister of this woman who lived in this apartment knew that I had found out and she came blazing in and her eyes were very red. She pulled a switchblade on me but fortunately it was across a card table—it was like that (referring to table in apartment) and it just got within about 3 inches and everybody ran out, we had elderly there, they all moved out when I said, “Please leave, just leave and be quiet,” and I turned to this woman, whom I liked very much and still do—I like her very much but she was really high on something, what, I do not know—could have been alcohol, could have been drugs—I don’t know that but she was high anyway so I got out of that all right but when I walked out of that room, she was still behind me and I can tell you right now, I felt that blade between my shoulder blades all the way to the door but the men, they disappeared, everybody disappeared but I’ve seen her lately and she’s a very fine woman and she’s completely all right and I, she’s a very pretty—she’s a Black woman but very nice woman and has done a great deal for the community. So it was, those were some of the incidents. Oh and one other, back at Carlisle which is similar. Ah, I put a woman out who had lived there and they had been trying to get her out and nobody had the courage enough to do it and I did put her out. So she had some of her relatives and her friends call me and say that if I came to this meeting, she would shoot me—that she had a gun, so I said to my husband, “What will I do?” and he said, “Well you either go or give up your job, you can’t let them do that to you. You have to accept it—now you do one or the other, that’s all.” Well I was furious, because I thought well that’s a fine thing so I got in my car and all the way up, I tried to decide what how I’ll leave Paul, you know, because he’s so mean and I got up there and get in the meeting and everything and the rest of the tenants cheered because they had wanted her out for a long time and nothing happened, so when I came out, this gentleman, police car came up to me and said, “Mrs. Titchener, we have been here all along—your husband called me,” so you see that spared me getting a divorce. (laughter) It was really funny though because I thought, well, dear me, what, what is going on? Well now I better get down to this because this I think does say something about—it says, “Dorothy Titchener is color blind, sympathetic and empathetic to be administrator of 612 housing units for which the Housing Authority has responsibility. She dislikes the term ‘Housing Units’ as a merciless, bureaucratic phrase which does not reflect the essential human factors which exist in 612 families from lonely old oldsters to 14 member households. She has the reputation among most of her tenants of being warm hearted, hard headed, fair and tough. Her principal problem is—there is always some 300 families seeking apartments which are not available. Mrs. Titchener feels that she administers a society of microcosms, a society embracing any society’s proportion of success, failure, love, hate, happiness, despondent, culture, and delinquency. She considers law enforcement of prominent importance in any society. She feels that many otherwise astute citizens do not understand the so-called housing under the edicts under the Housing Authority. A highly paid executive with 12 children, she said, can readily be considered a poor man but richer or poorer than the Viet, the Vietnam veterans with no skills, a wife and child. The State sets the income limits which must be instituted by an applicant’s payroll deduction forms. The authority counts the dependents. Mrs. Titchener and her colleagues must then measure all other human factors relating to their interest.” So that gives you a rather hard line view of what it is and I do feel that people misunderstand it because they used to say and this is why we didn’t name the other place and another thing we did when they moved in, we gave them one sheet of paper with their address in an envelope—it was in their apartment when they moved in a we moved in all the families in 2 days, who were eligible. Dan: That is for Isbell and— Mrs. Titchener: Yes, Isbell and Exchange Street. Dan: 45. Mrs. Titchener: Well then we made our Central Office there—that’s what it became and in a sense that was in a way more difficult because I saw less of the other 2 places because my office was down there and that seemed to be much more and I knew them all and when I retired, they gave me in dimes, nickels and dollars and quarters $375.00 from the elderly tenants down there and I didn’t know what to do with it. I could think of nothing I could buy that would be meaningful so I asked if anyone else wished to contribute to it, though I didn’t do it myself, but Mr. Johnson said if anyone wanted to. I came up with almost $1000.00 of additional money that was given and I gave that to the Fairview Home for fun parties. They were not to buy equipment—they were to bring movies in that were real, have sherry parties, they were to entertain with it and have fun because my life has been one of great enjoyment and fun. I just really love it. Well now to get to ah to go back on some of the things that I didn’t leave you—different awards that I’ve had ah some are in this room. I’ve had 18 scrolls or plaques or something in my life which I consider quite something because I don’t deserve hardly any of them but anyway I, I thoroughly enjoy them. I had a War Certificate for raising, this was when I had—well my profession was radio and television, as I told you and I was on radio then and I sold War Bonds. Dan: This was for WWI? Mrs. Titchener: Yes—no it must have been II, I think it was II—yes because I had moved. WWI I was still in school and I came here. This was in WWII. But we wanted to get—buy a bomber. They needed bombers and so ah we raised $310,000.00 in one night and ah Thomas Watson paid for a program for us so we didn’t have to pay for that and so and he gave me a check for $1000.00 because we had 20—this friend of mine, who was a public relations director later of Housing, but she helped ah she had 10 or 20 phones coming in with money coming in and she would bring out the money and Dottie Baker who was then, had been on WNBF as a commentator and she did the commentary for this program and then it was coming in so slowly that he had a fit because anything he was connected with, you know, must be successful, you know he had that feeling of success and that was it—so what was I doing and I kept sending back why, why get it—well the phones were clogged—it took us until the next day really so he gave me a check for $100,000.00—he had already purchased a $10,000 bond, so had Mrs. Watson and I took the check and tore it in pieces and dropped it in his hand, which was the biggest thrill of my life to do that and we did raise $310,000. We bought the bomber and we called it “Broome Sweeps the Air,” something like that. Well that was an award that I got from the Government, then I got the Girl Scout National Thanks Badge, which is a pin and I got a certificate for founding the Camp at a later date. Then the thing I liked the best is the American Legion Award, Post 80, because my husband got it just 10 years before I did and then after he was gone, why I received it and I and Dr. Mary Ross is the only other woman to ever receive this award and I’m the second women and of course she is not alive so I’m the only woman now who has received it and I—it was in 1967 that I got that and then I got a Senior Homes Plaque when we built the—from the Housing Authority—I got a plaque for that and then I got a certificate for that from the tenants themselves with giving them a home and so forth at Exchange Street and both of them I got in 1968, that was. Then Sertoma Club gave me an International Award for exceptional service to mankind—that sounds kind of big—I don’t know who mankind are but anyway this was in 1969 and then the Local Sertoma also gave me an award the same year and the Ladies of Charity for Exceptional Community Service in 1969, the New York State President of Housing and Urban Renewal in 1970. I got into that, I was State President of that and ah that was ah for outstanding work and then I got this one which pleases me greatly for outstanding management of Public Housing from the Management Association—I thought that was pretty good because I never considered myself a manager—I’ve managed but I always did it so, you know, iffy—I thought so, anyway that pleased me, that was in 1971 and a 20 year award for Housing and Renewal accomplishments in ‘72 and a New York State award of Good Management from the State Public Housing in New York in 1968 and then just recently in 1977 I was the Woman of Achievement award and that isn’t a plaque, that’s a I don’t know, it’s a scroll and then ah I told you about the newspaper and I got an award for that—doing the newspaper for the Junior League. Now in business and Professional Women, I have several offices. I was local Vice President—I never was President of my Club because they always said I didn’t fool around with little things so I went on—I was Regional Director and then I was State President, then I was National Radio Chairman and then I was International Radio and Television Chairman and as International Chairman of that, I broadcast from Canada on BBC to welcome a new club in England—welcome them into the Federation and incidentally along with that, the founder of the Business and Professional Women’s Club was a Lena Madison Phillips and she was going away and she asked me to take her place on the Security Council in ah United Nations Security Council in New York for one day so I had the thrill of doing that for her and she incidentally died on that trip so I never saw her again. She was a great friend of mine. Another great friend of mine among a woman who I admired greatly was Eleanor Roosevelt. I knew her very well and I, and she was very, very good to me and gave me a great deal of good advice—fine advice. I knew her in her late years after the President died. Then ah, I told you International—oh I opened, when I was State President of Business and Professional Women’s Club, I opened the first State Office here in Binghamton in my house of Riverside Drive and the first Secretary worked for me—we called her the Secretary of State, so we had a lot of fun with that. I was ah I told you TV and International Chairman, I opened office. I, also the first State magazine. I like to write and so ah a lot of my work has been done in writing—I’ve never done anything—I’ve never tried to publish anything because I don’t, I never wanted anyone to see it but I write a lot and I oh did write a pageant that we gave at the State Convention and that was I have that several other places too and ah then our big thing was when we put up Margaret Chase Smith as for Vice President and I didn’t know her then but I just called her and got her. Well, on the phone, I was astounded—it was like calling the White House, you know, sometimes you get ‘em, mostly don’t but I did get her and then Judge Hughes was, has been National President of BPW and she was in Texas and Margaret of course came from Maine. All right, we went to this Convention and it was a wow, because, I told you about taking the handkerchief back, there was just three of us, this is the Democratic Convention. [Tape #2] Mrs. Titchener: …but on the floor there it had been tried. I had to bull my way on the Democratic (fly) so I had a very good one. She called me, I didn’t go to the Republican Convention and she called me at home and it was all on TV, I could look at it and she said, “I think we have a winner here,” and we had ah, Clare Booth Luce to nominate and Margaret Chase Smith. Senator Smith couldn’t come because her mother was dying in a Maine Hospital and at the last minute she had to decline coming. So it was all set though that Clare Booth Luce was to nominate and she got up and she stood there when someone came up and handed her a small piece of paper, whereupon, she read, “Oh this is a great surprise, Senator Smith has withdrawn her name.” Well we all could have flopped—well you can imagine what her real manager did to me—he called me up and said, “What are you doing, she did not withdraw her name.” Now they, they’ve made an investigation of it and they know the two people who did it—I won’t tell them it’s none of my business but he really gave me Goddy because what was I doing to take her name and smear it all over. We ran it—we sold bricks at the National Convention—we called them bricks—a buck for a brick and we raised $1010.00— Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: —for that, and ah we divided that equally between, ah, between Senator Smith and Judge Hughes and so we ran that whole campaign and we had about 4 million dollars worth of publicity because it was such a unique thing for women to do then, you see, you couldn’t do it that way not of course but we were very naive about it and I happened to know Drew Pearson through my work in radio—I was a member of the American Women in radio and TV, I forgot that—I used to go with them once in a while—the men would come to that and we’d go to theirs, their convention—the men—so I knew him and he was going to run, they had 8 people running for Vice President of the Democratic ticket, among them F.D.R. Jr. and a lot of people were running. So I went down to see him and he said he was going to run a contest Sunday night and ask people to phone in their choice because he, he thought that would be [an] interesting feature. So ah, Leona Wallace, this friend of mine, ran a, a small advertising agency and she was running the publicity for our group so I called her and I said, “Get every State President and send to them this notice,” and said that to for them to get every club in their State to send in votes for Judge Hughes. So the whole thing ended with Judge Hughes getting 390 votes and the rest of them got 10, 11 and 12 and 14, like that and I went down the next day and poor Drew Pearson was all slumped over and he says, “Hey Dot what’s going on?” and I said, he says, “Who in blank is Sarah Hughes?” So that was quite an event anyway and she was nominated and the two reporters from ah it was Woody Fischette and ah who later wrote a very fine column about me which was in the Congressional Record—I’ve been in that twice—through Senator Smith’s efforts and anyway he was one and ah McManus who later worked with Rockefeller was the other one and they were furious because they were required to stay over the next morning and see Judge Hughes nominated for Vice President and we only had—they kept asking me how many votes I had. I said, “Oh a block.” Well we called, we called 12 a block see—anyway we ah—she withdrew her name, she just wanted to be nominated. Dan: What Presidential election was this, Mrs. Titchener? Mrs. Titchener: Ah when Eisenhower was running against Taft. Dan: All right. Mrs. Titchener: That was the reason we got all these things. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: That’s the reason the Republican people worked to embarrass them—the Taft people wanted to embarrass ah Eisenhower—they wanted to get someone in there to embarrass him if Taft was not going to win so that’s why we had such success there and we really, really got in on that. We had one funny incident because ah the Democrats put up that woman who had been a party worker for many years—I can’t think of her name now, but it doesn’t matter, anyway she had a big dinner and she didn’t invited Sarah Hughes as a candidate, so I went to her and said, “What are you doing? She’s a candidate.” “Oh,” she said, “I don’t think she is going to get anywhere,” and I said, “Well whether she gets anywhere or not, you invite her.” So she went but she was seated way down nowhere near the, the head table. So we went to a cocktail party, a huge one the Pennsylvania group were giving and the reporters, some of them were in there and this reporter said, “I hear some dame’s running,” another dame besides this one who was really well known and I said, “Yes,” I said, “She’s going to win, I’M telling ya so you want to meet her?” So I, we march in and so there’s one seat left at the head table—at the end of the head table so we march in—this girl with me was a reporter and we see Sarah. “Come on, Sarah, you have been invited up to the head table.” So she gets up to the head table, so he’s taking pictures of her and this other woman is raging and Vickie Levene, incidentally, Victoria Levene, was running this other woman’s candidate, was helping with it. She was furious too of course, because here I was with, just sashaying up there with, with Sarah. Well it all ended all right because Sarah finally gave up and didn’t do anything about it. So I told you about selling the bricks and ah I told you about the different things that we did for the tenants and all the places we had dances and teas and then finally I retired from Housing in 1974 and I worked briefly at Roberson Memorial Christmas Shop for a while and then I was on the ah lay Board of the State Hospital and there they didn’t care much for volunteers because they were, they felt that ah volunteers didn’t know anything and so I, I, I stayed on about a year and then I retired from that and then I was on the lay board of the Board of Education—that was even worse (laughter). NO, no they wouldn’t they didn’t want us—all they wanted us to do was to—they made me publicity chairman and all they didn’t want me to do any publicity unless it was saying how great they were. When I told the truth of things that I saw, they blacked it out—so that was useless. So now I have retired in grace and am having a wonderful time and I love my life and I do what I please now for a change. Dan: Wonderful. Mrs. Titchener: And I think I told you about my profession was, and oh I acted as a Persia Campbell—was head of the consumer’s department for New York State under Harriman and I worked as a consultant for her. Now these are things where I had made money and I got $25.00 a day to go around to ah clubs in this county—nearby clubs and consult with them about consumer problems, knowing nothing about them. I, I’ve never been very good at that but anyway I can, I can falsify. Dan: Well most of your life has been volunteer work, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: It’s been entirely volunteer work except I did make money. I did teach dancing once—I did write a column for the Press once for which I received money and I got money for this and of course I had that radio program and I had very good money when i worked for—I worked for 8 years for McLean’s—I ran a contest there and I worked there 8 years and then I went to ah down to WENE and there I would not—I persuaded ah Tom Watson, Mr. Watson that he needed me very badly and that I didn’t want to go under the name of IBM because I would have to be so, you know, so strict about what I said so he just gave me a little note to Charlie Curtin and he says, “Give Dorothy what she wants for money,” and we put it under the Endicott Chamber of Commerce and I worked there almost 9 years and I made very good money there and I was sent all over doing things and ah then I told you about oh and I was also on this Empire State Housing and Renewal Board for 3 years that ah Rockefeller started and they built Ely Park, they were—I was on that Board for a while and I guess that’s all that I did and— Dan: Now when you ah took over ah the ah—you were Chairman of the ah Housing Board, is that right? Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Was that your title? Mrs. Titchener: Chairman of Housing Authority. Dan: Of Housing Authority. Now Carlisle and ah Saratoga Heights had already been built but you were instrumental in building 25 Exchange Street and Isbell? Mrs. Titchener: Yes, yes it’s 45 Exchange. Dan: 45 Exchange, yes. Now the funding of the housing units, is that ah on a percentage basis—so much by City, so much by the State? Mrs. Titchener: Well the State, the State furnishes ah moving for the State problems, the State division and the State ones are Saratoga Terrace and Saratoga Heights are both State— Dan: Funded. Mrs. Titchener: Funded, but the funding is in this matter—you are the first year because you hadn’t made anything yet and you’ve got very low income and you can’t possibly pay all your debts so you were given a subsidy but then you cut that down every year. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And finally at the end we weren’t getting any subsidy—we were self-sufficient and when I left the Housing Authority, we owed $13.00 and I understand now from the papers that they owe some 37 or 47 thousand. Dan: You better get back in it. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, any day. Dan: Now the same thing is applied with Isbell and Exchange Street. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: So that was subsidized— Mrs. Titchener: And we cut it down every year and we do pay taxes to the City of Binghamton. Dan: In other words diminished ah diminishing subsidization. Mrs. Titchener: Yes, right and we do pay taxes but because we pay ah 10% of our rent with the utilities subtracted, because we give them utilities. We take the total cost of utilities at the end of the year, the telephone is not provided but their gas and their heat, electricity—that’s all provided. We take the cost of that and then what is left from that we take 10% of the balance and pay to the City in the form of a tax. Dan: I see. Mrs. Titchener: And I argued with ah always had my picture taken presenting them with a check for the newspapers because everyone said, “Oh we’re paying for all this.” Well now that is not necessary if you have good management. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: And I had such a marvelous board—it was not—I was the one who sparked them—who did things because I just can’t wait to unfurl about 20 yards of red tape—that annoys me so I just do it and tell them afterwards. That was really true, but the Board was so good. Dan: Isbell Street and Exchange Streets went so smoothly. Mrs. Titchener: Yes. Dan: Ah is so much so that in contrast with Woodburn Court—now everything has been torn down and— Mrs. Titchener: Now Woodburn Court, I really was against doing that. What I wanted in Woodburn Court and tried very hard to get it—in fact I had a personal check from a large industry in this community of $100,000 as seed money and I tried very hard to get them to make it—if you say Halfway House, you think of something alcoholic—I wanted an intermediary place where some of the elderly people who live in Exchange, who can no longer care for their apartments, could move with some care ah have ah have their meals prepared and have a dining room and have their meals prepared and have it a transition from that to going into some home which they ultimately have to go to or else a hospital or something of that nature. So that’s what I tried very hard to have Woodburn Court and they turned me down and of course I had to fight with City Council for everything we got. We had to put on a floor show and just ram it down their throats. Dan: Do you think the delay has been the lack of communication between the Mayor and City Council? Mrs. Titchener: I really don’t know that I have a—I did not fight for Woodburn Court because when I lost interest I had, I gave the check back to the organization because it was nearing the end of my time and I worked very hard and I’ve had fights and fights and fights with the City Council and I was expecting my paper, my picture in the paper upside down or something. Dan: There seems to be so much of wasted land there on Susquehanna Street with no provisions made for the future. Mrs. Titchener: I think that Woodburn Court probably will be successful but I think the Exchange Street is going to suffer by it because everybody from there who can go into Woodburn Court is going to move there. Dan: Yeah, will the tenants of Woodburn Court, ah, have to meet the same qualifications? Mrs. Titchener: No they have—that’s on another Federal program—that’s a Federal project and that’s on another program—I can’t tell you the number ah they’re always talking numbers to me and then I would have to go to my little Bible and look it up because I was too old something you know but they are being subsidized partially—their rent is being subsidized by the Federal people and they are paid for the for the ah the person who is building it—the builder can’t afford of course—things have gone up so now. Dan: Sure. Mrs. Titchener: If that had been built 7 years ago it would have been better but it wasn’t and I really don’t know why. I know there were all sorts of reasons probably but I never pushed it. I never, I had nothing to do with Woodburn Court, in fact I hoped it wouldn’t be built because i thought, I think that ah Exchange Street is having trouble enough now. Dan: Yeah. Mrs. Titchener: They’re always advertising for apartments and we had a waiting list of 300 people and they were so jealous of that waiting list, they’d call, you know, ask where they were on it and we really, we really stuck to that but I don’t know I, I really don’t know as I say I don’t go down there. I thought that I would have a lot of fun because I had many friends there and I would visit them but I was told to stay out and I have stayed out and I don’t know I think there may have been some sort of personal jealousy, I don’t know, but I know everything with my name on it, even little things that said, “Please don’t put your garbage in the hall,” even little notices like that have been destroyed—anything that had my name attached to it. That, I don’t know why but I guess I’m that controversial type of person and they didn’t want any part of it—that’s it—but I did love it and it gave me the greatest satisfaction next to my own children and then the last thing I have done is my book. I have to get that in because I’ve had so many, so many honors and so one day my daughter called me up one night and she said, “You know, Mother, you’re gonna die.” I said, “Are you figuring on tonight or something like that?” She said, “No, I thought you’re always writing poetry and you stick it around and we’re going to drop it all down the incinerator,” so that made me mad so I decided to do this and I’ve been trying to think of some way to repay this community for the wonderful things they have done for me so I dedicated my book—I call it Seasoning and dedicated it to Jim, Ann and Jean and their families who have seasoned my life with joy and then I said Foreword: “This small book is a gift. It is my way to say Thank You to the many agencies for whom I have worked, who have so graciously honored me in the past and hopefully will bring some pleasure to my countless acquaintances and warm personal friends.” So I didn’t sell the book—I had it printed at my expense and then gave it to these organizations to sell for their own charities and Sertoma took some and BPW and Zonta and the church had some and various other organizations asked for them and I ordered a hundred and I thought I could never get rid of a hundred and the printer said to me, “I have to do the whole thing alone”—my children were going to help me and they all left and so I had to pick out the design and I had to do the printing and the paper and you know, pick the whole thing out and put it all in and I had my children all in here—they had all done something—they’re all here in the back. Anyway I had a lot of fun doing it and then I have it and they had made enough money, lots of them, to do really fine things because they were selling them for $5.00 and I was not, at my age, going to start out selling books. So anyway this is the way I did it and I feel in a way that I had paid back some of the wonderful things that really I, I just can’t say enough about how much has been done for me. Dan: Well everything has been deserved, Mrs. Titchener. Mrs. Titchener: I don’t know, I don’t know. Dan: On one last note—the naming of Titchener Hall? Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes. Dan: At Broome Community College. Mrs. Titchener: That was wonderful. Ah Paul, of course, was the organizer, he was the founder and went to ah Governor Dewey and persuaded him that this would be necessary and that was fine and then he was the first Chairman of the Board there and he was Chairman for many years. So when he retired ah he asked to be able to name a successor—to name a couple of people and that’s when Darwin Wales went on as Chairman because he was a great friend of Paul and is a great friend of mine. So they gave this dinner and in the meantime they had a painting painted of Paul by ah ah, next door—what’s his name ah you know the man next door—the artist—his wife Mae, he runs Roberson? Dan: Martin. Mrs. Titchener: Martin, anyway he painted this portrait of Paul and he painted without Paul knowing it and they showed it at this dinner. Well it was very stern and ah Paul wasn’t too pleased with it nor I because—but he did allow us to make some changes and we did make changes and now it is very fine and so they named Titchener Hall for him and that was in January, that this party was in January. They had a big party and Paul was very happy but we were going around the world. We had our way paid all the way around and I like to tell this because of the kindness of people. We had reservations in almost every country we went to in several places because Paul liked very much—he was a very man who wanted everything right and he always had to just get it right. Dan: Uh huh—very methodical. Mrs. Titchener: Excuse me, the point was that ah I wrote to all of them when he died very suddenly, without any warning whatsoever on the Wednesday before we were to leave on Friday. So I wrote all these places and I received every cent of money back even from—the last ones to give it back were the fares from the who was here right in this country but Cooks was the last ones to pay back. They said, they called me said, “It’d have to be something final,” and I said, “Well if death isn’t final, would you kindly tell me what is?” and they sent the money and so I got— Dan: Isn’t that a shame? 3 days before you were ready to leave. Mrs. Titchener: Yeah, we were all packed and everything else all ready to go but in a way he would have been miserable because he was a very active man. He had a job—he was going to run Housing for the City and he had a job in City Hall and when he came back he was looking forward to doing this—that’s one reason I went into this so wholeheartedly after he died because I thought maybe I’m left to do the things that he never had the opportunity to do. Dan: Right. Mrs. Titchener: Because he really was, he was a very—some people were afraid of him because he had a rather severe, austere appearance but he had a great sense of humor and from, when I became President, nominated President of the State, I asked him if he wanted me to do it because it meant I would have to be away nights quite a lot to travel around to the various clubs for dinners and he said, “Well Dot, I’d rather have dust under my bed than dust in your head”—just was a cute remark. Dan: It ah it was a blessing in disguise that it didn’t happen while you were— Mrs. Titchener: Oh yes, not only that but he would have been, he had ah really a hemorrhage very similar to what ah Franklin Roosevelt had—it was completely devastating and he would have been a vegetable had he survived and that would have not been for such. Now this book is a very personal book—it’s simply about my family and about the things I love out of doors. It’s not anything that anyone although people have been very kind to say they like it but and I have ah something from Karen Schmitt—I have one from each family—something that they have written. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And ah that’s very nice. I have my own self portrait here and then I have something, mostly written to my family and ah things of that kind and that’s what I did with it and the BPW on my 80th birthday gave me a birthday party and they told me they had given all the money they have received from this book to the ah New York State Scholarship Fund which pleased me a great deal. Dan: From what was that? Mrs. Titchener: Received from this book—the Business and Professional Women’s Club. So they sent that, sent the money that they received from selling their books. So I thought that I had accomplished something for both of us that I have the pleasure of having done it and this is purely personal—I have my children, none of them live here, none of them so I’m always alone holidays. So I decided on my 80th birthday, I’d have it at Thanksgiving, which would be better weather and I brought them all here and I brought them from 7 states and they were here 4 days and I had to put some up in motels because obviously haven’t room here and I had them for 4 days and we had breakfast and lunch here and then dinners we went out. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Titchener: And it happened to be my youngest grandson’s birthday on Thanksgiving, so we had his birthday party and mine at the ah restaurant and had a marvelous time. I don’t think I went to bed for 4 nights because we stayed up and talked and laughed and I have, I have a controversial family I say they have inherited more of me than their more conservative father and we just ripped the roof off—completely (laughter). So will that simple note unless you have something more to ask me. Dan: Well you’re a very remarkable woman Mrs. Titchener, I certainly appreciate your consenting to this interview. Mrs. Titchener: Well I’ve enjoyed it. I like to do things if it, it will be helpful. Dan: It certainly will be. Mrs. Titchener: And thanks loads. I’ve enjoyed, I’ve enjoyed doing it very much and I want to thank the Action for Elderly for thinking this up. Dan: Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dorothy Titchener Subject The topic of the resource Titchener, Dorothy -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Broome Community College; Titchener, Paul; Girl Scouts of the United States of America; Women -- Societies and clubs; Junior League of New York; Business and Professional Women/USA; Women -- Political activity; Amahami Girl Scout Camp; Girl Scout Council; Housing Authority; Politics Description An account of the resource Dorothy Titchener speaks about her life including her marriage to Paul Titchener, the founder of <a href="http://www1.sunybroome.edu/">Broome Community College</a>, and working twenty years as chairman of the Housing Authority. She mentions her affiliation with the Business and Professional Women's Club and their efforts to nominate <a href="http://www.aauw.org/2013/11/21/judge-sarah-tilghman-hughes/">Judge Sarah Hughes</a> as Vice President during the Eisenhower-Taft election. She lists among her acquaintances individuals, such as, President and Mrs. Franklin D. Roosevelt and <a href="http://www.hallofgovernors.ny.gov/NelsonRockefeller">Governor Rockefeller</a>. She also details her achievements with the Girl Scouts Council and purchasing a lake, named Amahami, as a camp for the Girl Scouts club.   She mentions her affiliation with the  Junior League and Business and Professional Women's Club, as well as other local organizations. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/m4a Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 61A ; Recording 61B; Recording 61C Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Titchener, Dorothy ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:54 Minutes ; 11:28 Minutes ; 30:07 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e3eb9f29a02cc9dc9384a5f8dc92dace.mp3 f29a67fd803f3ed3d85ca73c6a82b16d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Maxian, Stephen Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-03-28 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 26:17 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55975">Interview with Stephen Maxian</a> Subject LCSH Maxian, Stephen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Silver Lake (Pa. : Township); Accordionists -- Interviews; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); House construction Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mr. Stephen Maxian Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 28 March 1978 Stephen: I am Stephen Maxian born in Forest City 1888 November 17, I am 89 years old, I went to school in Forest City a year or so and when I came back, my folks moved here to Binghamton, that’s quite a few years back I was nine—years old I went to school, Clinton Street school a year or so, Jarvis Street school then I went to the St. Pat’s Parochial School, there my father took me out when I was 13 years old, went on the farm, I was growed up on the farm ’til I was 21 years, after I left the farm, I got a job at that time you get a job anyplace. Worked in Kroehlers, finally got married, had 2 children there on, we moved on to a farm, we had a farm in Silver Lake Township, 250 acres. Had a few head of cattle, we worked there for 30 years. The best we could do, the best we could do was to pay for the farm. When we had the farm paid for, we had nothing else—only just the farm and a few tools. I decided we would give up the farn, and get a job in the factory, I finally located a job, in Fairbanks Valve Co. I worked there 13 years, and we run the, farm all together 35 years, so when I got this job in the factory, we decided, we would move into the City. Then when we went looking, for a house, they were asking more for a shabby house in the city, compared to he one we had in the country and all the land, they wanted 6 thousand or 7 thousand, and 8 thousand for a house with water in the cellar, not very nice, so I built me a house home on, Ackley Ave. I decided that would be the best place, I went into my timber lot, I cut the timber, to specification to what we want it for, built the house on Ackley Ave. I was my own contractor, I hired my help, to do the electrical work, to hook up the gas, and put the walls, and I had my friends. Some from the factory, and some from the, sawmill, who sawed the lumber for me, and they helped me build the house.  Of course now I lost my wife 5 years ago. And I do music work, I play an accordion, I play this, I play this accordion quite a few times, as a volunteer, for the Senior Citizens, of the Triple Cities. We go as far as Deposit, we play for the Senior Citizens, in Windsor, Whitney Point, and all the others close by. It keeps us, pretty busy, and I'm not alone in this there's three of us in this. We always play together. Sometimes we get, now and then, a pay job, but not very often. As for my family, I have a daughter one in California, then I got one, in Lewiston, Maine, and I have a son, Stephen, lives on Conklin Rd., and I spent this Easter at his house, had dinner there and today, we played for Senior Citizens, Johnson City Nutrition Center. I got to go everyplace. They never say, “Don’t come back.” They also say, “Come again, we love your music,” of course. This lumber that this house was built, I cut the logs and the boards, and also I drawed the plans for the home on Ackley Ave. And the lumber sawmill that cut the logs, they knew just how to make it, and I had to buy very little lumber to finish the house, I had my own window trim, door casings made of Ash Lumber, which is a very good hard lumber, and the floors made also out of hard maple which is a very good floor and I lacked, a little bit of that, so I had to buy a few feet of lumber for part of my bedroom, which was a little different from my own lumber, it was more seasoned, mine wasn't, quite seasoned, then, my own lumber. Everything seemed to be all right as far as that goes. I'm living on Social Security in Johnson City for 30 years and I have no worries. I've been traveling quite a good deal, after my wife passed away. I’ve been down in Venezuela. Caracas, Venezuela, then in Hawaii, couple times and also down in Bermuda, Nassau, and in Virginia, Florida, different, a lot different places on Senior Citizens. Now I didn't think I would ever see in my younger days. My younger days, most of the time I seen lot of poverty. (Laugh). Now I'm making plans to visit my sister in Michigan, my daughter that lives up in Maine, State of Maine is coming down here in June, early in June and pick me up and maybe my son, and his wife and take us up to my sister in Michigan, Arlington, Michigan, the outskirts of Detroit and l'm looking forward to that, and I guess within a month or so I probably, will be, going to Maryland, visit my grandson and my grandchildren, some that I have never seen, and I'm looking forward to that. Also if I can get up, gumption enough to go I usually, when l travel, I travel with a group, and when you get to be 89 years old, it ain't easy to start out alone, you don’t know what might happen, and I'm supposed to bring my accordion, that I play, and my harmonicas down to my grandson’s because he writes, country music, and I play country music and other kind of music. This harmonica I'm going to play now it’s a key of C. I will play an Irish jig.  [Mr. Maxian plays it]. Now I will play a beautiful Slovak waltz. That was on my accordion. The name of this is “Orphan Child.”  [Mr. Maxian plays]. Now, I will play you on my harmonica, “Swanee River.” [Mr. Maxian plays. Anna claps.] There's one thing I forgot to mention, I have 10 grandchildren, great-grandchildren and I had to wait until a year ago, one whose name is Maxion. The rest is all on my daughter's side. (Laugh). Different names. Oh I'm glad I got one that’s a Maxian. My own family, my father’s family. I had one brother that was born in Slovakia, the rest of the family was all born in this country and when you count ‘em up there was 14 of us. There was 9 brothers and 5 sisters, up to now there's just 2 of us brothers left and 3 sisters, still hanging on. My father and mother they came from Slovakia, as my, wife did, and I can’t say just what year they, immigrated to this country around, about 1880, I guess something like that and when they came to this, country, they came from at that time it was Austria-Hungary, was Franz Joseph, was Monarchy of these two countries, two nations, nationality of these people, the Hungarians, Polish, Czechs, and the Slovaks and some people, who called themselves Russians, also there and there was some Germans, all in this one group in the Two Nations, Austria-Hungary. Today they all have their own nations, that’s about the best I can do. Anna: Thank you Mr. Maxian, thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Stephen Maxian Subject The topic of the resource Maxian, Stephen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Silver Lake (Pa. : Township); Accordionists -- Interviews; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); House construction Description An account of the resource Stephen Maxian talks about being brought up in Binghamton, NY. He tells of owning a farm in Silver Lake Township for thirty five years. He also discusses moving to Johnson City to take a job at a factory, and building a house for his family with the help of friends and electricians. He speaks about his later career of playing the accordion for local senior citizen groups. He talks of his parents immigrating to the United States circa 1880. He mentions his travels to other countries. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 42 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maxian, Stephen ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-28 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 26:17 Minutes