73 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e65665eed6ed35f6286cba4d12321c71.mp3 653fdadaff9cc49f99cc326501fff782 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d6601a42a405c0d053949439a9b06b52.mp3 1e6b427f181b9becca22bf0cd4e3f0a1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Macko, George J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-03-30 Subject LCSH Macko, George -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Czechs--United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Politics; Broome Community College; Broome County (N.Y.). Supervisors, Board of; Binghamton Glass Co.; Olum's Furniture Co.; Glassblowing; Clinton Street neighborhood; First Ward; Interpreter; Broome County Airport; St. Michael's Church Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:03 Minutes ; 10:20 Minutes Collection Broome County Oral History Project Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56083">Interview with George J. Macko</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: George J. Macko Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 30 March 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to George J. Macko of 36 LaGrange Street, Binghamton, NY, on March 29, 1978. Mr. Macko, will you tell me about the experiences of your people coming here from Europe—coming here—etc.? George: Ready? Nettie: Yes. George: My dad and mother was born in what they call now Czechoslovakia, a good many years ago. Dad came here to the United States—he landed in Philadelphia in about the year 1888. He walked—he didn't have money enough to pay railroad fare from Philadelphia to Scranton, so him and another man that came over with him, they walked the railroad track from Philadelphia to Scranton—and they got—because lot of our friends is living there—so he stayed there a while and worked in the mines. He stayed at the mines a while—and he come back—he moved into Binghamton in 1890. He got his first citizen papers before that and he worked—hard job, to get a job them days—was putting sewer going down through Clinton Street. They hired you for two days and the next two days you was done—you didn't have a job, and you had to struggle along to get a job—so then he went to work and he got a job with Roberson Lumber Co. He had a job working outdoors piling lumber—when they comes in the cars and get piling it—he worked there, oh, ’til about 19—1907—no, 1906—he worked there 1896—he left there—he had a very bad case of asthma—had it tough. But he used to like to take his drinks, and he worked, but sometimes when it comes Friday or Saturday—boy—that was bad! But it’s one of them conditions—like the old timer used to be—that was nothing new to them. And Mother come to this country about 18—1890. She was a hard worker—she used to keep house. They used to have boarders come to live with us—they had good ones and they had bad ones—they had to make both ends meet to get along the best they could. About the year 1907—Dad come home from work one day and I come home from school, he said, Dad, “I'm not going to work anymore, I'm done—I can't work no more ’cause my asthma got me so I can't do anything." So he died. I was ten and a half years old then when he died, and two years later, Mother was in bad shape—she fell down on the ice in the wintertime on the sidewalk, hit the back of head—she went into a coma. She died two years after Dad died. That left us—I was twelve and a half years old at that time—so what happens—so after they both died—I went to live—my sister, my brother and I—went to live with my uncle, Mr. & Mrs. George Tatich. I lived with them. When I was fourteen years old, I had to quit school to go to work—so I started to work for the Binghamton Glass Co. as a mold boy and snapping-up boy. In 1913 I started apprenticeship of being a glassblower—learning the trade, glassblower. I stayed, worked in the glasshouse until 1924. I quit there in '24 and I went to work and started to work at Olum Furniture Co. on Clinton Street. Mr. Jacob Olum was the owner and proprietor of the business, and I worked for him, and I been working for him continuously until I retired after 51 years working. I come up the hard way with ’em—I met all kinds of people, good and bad—we managed to get along the best I could. I used to talk, go out to be a witness for, witness for people to be a citizen of this country—and used to go out to work selling furniture and go out, help a whole lot on different things—being sort of an interpreter for things for to help them along when they would buy homes, etc.—which we did—and they got going good—and I got to be working in the store. We got in the Slovak people, Polish people, Czechoslovakian people, Ukrainian people—and you meet them all—I could understand them and I could talk with them all—I had no difficulty at all. So, I worked ’til 19—19—after forty years of working for the store—I retired after I was 69 years old on social security. After I retired Mr. Olum wanted me to come back to work two or three nights a week, so I decided—I went back to work three times a week with a salary of $30.00 for twelve hours, and I stayed there, I put in eleven years doing that and I worked there ’til I was taken sick—and with doctor's orders, I decided to give up work, so I haven't been working since. So, my political help, I started to get in politics about in the year 1928. I was elected Secretary of the Roosevelt—Roosevelt Victory Democratic ticket—Secretary of the First Ward Group that we had here—and I kept being in politics, and went along and here of 19—1934—or ‘35, I run to be supervisor for the First Ward—and I was elected to that office, and I was elected continuously to that office from 19—1936 to 1955. In the 1955 election I got beat and that ended my career as a politician. Nettie: Well, tell me more about your politics—exactly what your job was. What was your—trustee, councilman, supervisor—? George: Supervisor. Nettie: Supervisor of what? George: I was county supervisor for twenty years. I was on different committees—I was on a whole lot of important committees on the Board of Supervisors—I spent nine years on the Finance Committee that made up the finances and the budget for the county for the year. I was on that for nine years. I was on the law Legislative Committee about nine years. I was on the Airport Committee from the time we started it, ’til I got beaten in the election. I was on the construction of the airport, and after the airport was finished—then I was on the committee that started when they started going to work on building a new college in Binghamton. The Board of Supervisors elected twelve members to be on the committee about getting a college in Binghamton. We decided to do that and the Board of Supervisors voted to appropriate one million dollars for that new college that we were supposed to have. Things went along smoothly, then all of a sudden things turned around. Lt. Governor—er—er—Lt. Governor of the state, he came down, we had a meeting with the Board of Supervisors. He wanted us to go to work and start another college in the city and at one million dollars that we wanted to appropriate for the state college—to go to work, to put that toward the new community college that, they called it at that time—it wasn't community college, at that time, it was the School of Science. So they took—they—they split the committee of the twelve men—they took three men, Harry True, myself, and Hugh Wheeler to be on the new school that we wanted to open up—which today is Broome Technical School. And I been on that school from the time they started it ’til I got beaten in the election. I still have a lot of faith in that school and I think it is one of the Godsends of our County for having a school like that. That is a very good school. Nettie: Mr. Macko—how about telling me more the airport—how it started—how did it get around? I know it had something to do with the Johnsons—I'm not sure. George: Johnsons? Johnson—what's-his-name was on the committee. Nettie: Charlie Johnson? George: See, they had an airport in Endicott, but they wanted to have a bigger airport because the government would not put any money into that airport because of circumstances in the airport that they didn't think would be feasible to do it. So they appointed a committee—Johnson was on that—ooh—President of the Ansco Co. was on that—quite a few real business people were on that committee. So they come before the Board of Supervisors to see what we can do, if we would be—interested in building the airport—so we had a meeting, and this group of people come and explained to us why we should have a new airport here and so forth, like that. And, ah, ’course I was interested in aviation because my son was a flier. My son is a flier in the Navy. After they got through talking, we heard all sides of the story and the Board was kind of quiet, so I said to this—I can't think of his name now, he used to be a big wheel here—I said, “You people—now you sell up a idea, this here airport, now you should go out, and go out and canvas the city and different parts of the city, kinds of different parts of the county, then come back to us with the report—see what you made on it.” And it went along like that, and they came back and then the board decided that we go along building the airport. Nettie: How did you find that site? Why not another site? George: This committee that was working on it, they had that all located. They showed us the site before we started to do it. We all saw it. It's a good site, but still, it’s a condition of Broome County—when you get fogged, you get fogged in—you can't help it, it's a situation we have here. Nettie: A sort of pockets there, too. George: That's right. The airport did a good thing for the community. Nettie: Yes, business. George: Everything. Everybody. A lot of people come back, come back and objected to me, come up, a lot come up, he said, “George, we gave you the devil for being for the airport, but we're sure happy you done it." Nettie: That's right, that's right. George: I said that's all right—that's the way you got to take it—some good and bad. Nettie: That's right. George: I says I always manage—oh, when—I always manage, when I even voted—when I even voted for anything in the county, on the different budgets, I always went to work—I went to court [inaudible], hard concepts, I listen to ’em—I'm talking—if it's a good thing and they satisfaction me, I voted for it. And if I wasn't satisfied, I'd question them about it—and after I questioned, if the question come out to my satisfaction, I voted for it, if not, I voted against it—and that was always my motto when I voted for anything. Nettie: Other words, you voted, you went along as though it was something of your own, as though that was your private thing. George: Well, the benefit of the people, for the benefit of the people. Nettie: That's right. Your heart was really in it. George: That's right. I didn't want to hold up anything that wasn't, that wasn’t—anybody that was detrimental to the city, I didn't like. Nettie: Did you ever know the Kilmers? Did you ever know anything about the Kilmers? George: I've known of them, but I never had any contact with ‘em. Nettie: How about the Link people? Do you know the Links? George: I know Ed Link, but, ah— Nettie: Just through business? George: Just through business, that's right. Nettie: Nothing personal. Well, how about telling me—where was this Olum's located? On Clinton Street, or was it located— George: —Clinton Street. Nettie: Clinton Street. At that era, say fifty years ago, I know that they had, probably, many stores and probably, I think Jewish people had stores, and things like that. Will you tell me something about that? Other people you got involved with? George: Well, there was different people had businesses there, mostly grocery stores—why, mostly—there were two or three Jewish places had grocery stores. Then they had a dry goods store that they have, that they used to have on Clinton Street, people by the name of Smock’s. They used to have children—children's—and baby dressing, and dresses for the ladies. They was in business for quite a while, but then he died off, she died off—that closed that business up—and then they had a lot of people running the hotel—saloon, drinking places, that so many of them had, some in and some out. Nettie: Wasn't there a Lincoln Hotel at one time? George: Yeah—Lincoln Hotel. Nettie: That's before Ann Kolota had it. George: Well, Lincoln Hotel, Mr. Torony owned it—he used to have a corner on, a hotel on the corner of Charles and Clinton Street. He was doing business there, but he had to get out of there, so then he went to work—took the Lincoln Hotel over. And he’d run that for quite a while—and went along, got along good—we used to go there and I used to meet him quite often—every week, my wife and I’d go there every week. They used to have dances, there’d be dancin’, we'd meet different people and we'd have a glorious time there. So Mr. Torony got down to the point, he says, "George,” he says, “I want to give up—I want to sell.” He says, “I want to sell it to you."  I says, "Steve! Sell it to me?” I says, "I haven't got the money to pay for that."  He says, "What do you care? I'll take a mortgage."  Yes, but I said, "I don't want to worry about a mortgage." But it went along, and a fellow by the name of Maxim come along, he bought it. Maxim had it for quite a while, and he sold it—and I don't know who had it now since the Kolotas had it. I don't know who runs it now. I used to go out, and people who come from the old country had to go, they all had to go and order up cit—get citizen papers. I used to go out, I can't tell you even how many people I went to be—ah—be a citizen, put in for citizen papers for. Well sometimes, ah—they used to make me mad—they wouldn’t come and tell me, "Will you go for me?” but they’d come up and tell me, “You gotta go for me.” And it’s the night—the day before they got to go to court, they’d say, “You got to go with me." So I turned a few of them down. Anyone—anybody that wanted me to be a witness for ‘em and I didn’t like their character, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't go for everyone, because one time I went for a witness with another fella—both of the fellas are dead—one was a witness and one was the man running for citizen paper. We went up—I never had to worry about what I said or done, but I wasn't—I wasn’t—I didn't hear what the other guy had to say, so I was going to be honest—so this examiner, when we got through, he said, he says, "All right,” he said, “I will rest your case, but,” he said, “when you come before the judge and get citizen papers,” he says, “I will put perjury charges against you.” Nettie: Put what? George: Perjury charges. Nettie: Oh, perjury. George: So we had to go from one office to another to sign up. Someone—but this thing was bothering me all the while. And I said to the guy, I says, "Come on back." Ah, he said, "Where?" I said, "We're going back to the examiner, again." He said, "Why?" I said, "He said something I didn't like as far as myself is concerned—I don't know about you, but I'm fighting for myself." So I went in there and saw him. He said—I think his name was Smith—I says, "Smith, did I understand you say that you passed us all right but when it comes to court—before the court to get the papers, you’ll go put perjury charges against us?"  He says, “Yes,” so I says, “Let me tell you, Smith, right now.” I said, "You want to make damn sure that the perjury charges you're going to put against me, that they’re gonna be good, or I'm gonna sue you.” I said, "I will not go to work and stand up to anybody accusing me of perjury when I haven’t perjured myself." Well, we come to court, he never mentioned a thing about it—he just said to the judge, "Pass the guy." But I'm telling you, so—you had some of them couldn't write their names, you know, hard workers—they never wrote in their lives [inaudible]. I had one guy in particular, Harry Terre—Harry Tatiliba. He's [inaudible] junkyard [inaudible] iron all day long—how do you expect a guy to write a letter when he never wrote a letter before? So he had it in there and the examiner called me in and he said, "George,” he says. he says, "I like this guy and all that, but he says he can't sign his name.” I said, "Let me talk to him in his language.” I said, “He'll sign it.” I said, “he'll do it, just let me talk his language.” So I told him in his language, I said, "If you don't sign your name, you're not going to get the citizen papers, so take your time—try to write as plain as you can. Take your time, don't rush it." He did. (Laughing.) Nettie: They have to have someone interpreting for them. George: That's right. I had—I had to ask permission to interpret for him. So—I’d never done that. Nettie: That was interesting. George: Another time I went up for a witness for a man. He was born here—in Scranton—well, he goes outside of Scranton. When the war come along they took him in—pushed. He said he wouldn't go and fight because he wasn’t going to fight against his brothers over there, his father and brothers in the old country. And he was born here, they took him in, but when he got discharged from the Army he got his citizen papers. So I went up to be a witness for his wife for papers, and this examiner—she took her husband's citizen paper with her—and he questioned her, he says, "This is your husband?" She says, "Yes”—and he was born in, near Scranton, and was baptized in Scranton—she said, "Yes."  Well, he said, "He didn't need no citizen papers—he's a citizen in the first place." Well, he said, "The government gave it to him when he discharged, so that's it." So, you see there was wrong in there, too. Nettie: That's right. George: So, she got her paper without a bit of trouble. But most of the people, I never had none of them turned down that I went to be witness for—because I was careful who I went for. I went for Slovak people, I went for American people, I went for Italian people—those that I knew they was all right, I went for ‘em, no trouble at all. And I never tried to charge any of them any money for going—although losing time at work, but never charged any of them—but some of them would give me a donation once in a while. And a friend of mine, I went for citizen’s papers for him and his wife—and they both got it. And I was running for election that year, and he went to work, he said, to some people he said, "Don't vote for George. George has been there long enough,” he said, "get somebody else to run." I said, "That's what I get paid for being his witness." (Laughing.) Nettie: People are comical, aren't they? George: You got ups and downs, I'm telling you. Yeah. Nettie: Since we're on Clinton Street, how about telling me something about that Horvatt Bank that was closed— George: Horvatt Bank was closed by the State Dept. of Banking—they closed it. There was a discrepancy or something, something like that. I don't want to bring in the bi—the other part of it. But it, ah—It hurt the people of the First Ward and hurt the business of the First Ward when that bank went under. There's no question about it. It’s just too bad that it happened. Nettie: Mr. Macko, what kind of people went to that bank? Why didn't they go to Binghamton Savings Bank? Why did they go to Horvatt Bank? George: They went to the Horvatt because he's one of our kind, and he used to have a good reputation. His dad used to run the beer business, which, my dad used to go there every week—had a grand time—and the family was well known, so the people had a lot of confidence in him so they went to the bank. Now, you take all the churches—all the churches had money in banquet—er—Horvatt's Bank. I was elected Treasurer in St. Michael's Church in the July. When the half year was up they elected me for a full year, so, a year and half as Treasurer in St. Michael's Church. After that I was elected for President of the Board from 1923 to '29. In '29, after the year 1929, I didn't want to be on it any longer, so I—I was elected but I refused it, wouldn’t be swore in, so that stopped it. Then, I didn't get elected—got elected again in 1934. In 1934 I took it again amidst a lot of turmoil—church fight was starting in there—which I didn't like, didn’t need in the first place, because I knew the law says, when you got membership laws to go by, that's all you got to worry about—membership laws. Well, St. Michael’s Church was dedic—er—elected—er, appointed by 27 families. They got the charter for St. Michael’s Church in 1920—er, in 1904, and when I was there I tried to keep within the law on everything was done, and the people had confidence in me and they always wanted me in there. So after I served in 1920, er, ‘34, this church fight got started, harder, hotter and hotter, and I tried to calm it down the best I could. I used to tell ‘em, he says, "Look at this—why do we have to fight? Don't go to the left, don't go to the right, but stay in the middle of the road,” and I said, “If you stay in the middle of the road, you're gonna win. And if you don't stay in the middle of the road, you don't win.” Well, it just happened, they wasn’t under membership laws in New York State. Well, the law, the charter said we should have the Greek Catholic Church—Greek Catholic Church rites. That was in the charter. But that was, that was the fight about Greek Catholic Church religion, fighting, that didn't help ‘em any. But if I say, there wasn’t no law to take ‘em out of the—they even sent two lawyers to the old country to check up on the history of the church and everything—Bernie Chernin and another guy. That was a vacation for them. Who paid—and who paid for it? The poor people. So—is there anything else? Nettie: When you were telling me about—you were working—your dad was a glassblower? George: I was a glassblower. Nettie: You were a glassblower. George: I was a glassblower. I was seventeen years old when I started blowing glass. Nettie: Mr. Macko, will you tell me the procedure of blowing glass? I think it is quite interesting—can you explain it? Or if you can’t, you have to show it, is that it?  George: (Laughing.) You know, we used to have thirty-three glassblowers working at the glassworks, but every year they allowed, they’d usually allow them to put one apprentice—to put an apprentice on, so, every year there's men put in for ‘em. I went in for a four-year apprentice—they used to have a five-year apprentice, but when l went in it was a four-year apprentice. We used to have old glass—sand, soda, lime, and potash—and we used to melt it, and we used to have about a hundred tons of glass melted just like molasses, day and night. And you’d have a long pipe, a pipe about that long [about 24”], and you’d put a [inaudible] on the end of it, and you'd go to work and gather that glass, take it and roll it on the stone or iron, and you had a form for the bottle, and you'd go to work and before you closed the bowl you’d blow the bottle out. So they used to make bottles from—anyway, I used to make a bottle from one half ounce up to sixteen ounces—but then, they used to make bottles up to five gallons, but that I couldn't do because that was too big a job for me. Nettie: Is that only bottles, or did you make vases and other things? George: Bottles. Nettie: —just bottles— George: Just bottles. So, in 1923, the year—we closed for the season, and then '24, I started work for Olum. That was the end of my glassblowing business. But that was hard work. In wintertime, half a side you were burning and the other side of you was freezing, and blowing glass all day long was no picnic. You had to go clear round the—you had to work in union—unison. And if you didn't—if you happened to stop—the thing didn't work out for you when you was on, on the kneading board. To divide it, you'd have to holler, “Look out!” because the man would come around with the hot glass and hit you in the rear with it—burn your pants if you didn't holler. So you had to be watchin’ all the time. Had to go day round, day round and round and round. Nettie: Did this have something to do with your respiration after many years? George: Didn't bother me. I used to play in a band, even! Blow glass, play in a band. Oh, no. We, ah—back in 1912, we started a band from St. Michael’s Church. Nettie: Just a few men? George: Oh, there were the few of us—then there was quite a few of them, wound up, but the band went along, gone along good. Nettie: What did you do in the band? How many in the band, and what part did you play in it? George: I played the cornet. I played the cornet, but then I quit that band, and guys asked me to go to work, get a saxophone—and I start blowing, training on the saxophone and I went to work, went to first work for the Slovak Citizens Band. I played in that afterward. But St. Michael’s band—they had a nice band, but they broke up. Nettie: Where did you play? At picnics, things like that? George: Yes. Nettie: Did you have high school? George: My education—I went to school when I was seven years old and I quit when I was fourteen—I got up, er, finished the seventh grade and graduated the glassblower. (Laughing.) Yeah. Nettie: Your education was experience throughout life, right? George: That's right—but thank God I struggled along all right. I can't complain. Nettie: Did you have a son in service? George: Yeah—my older boy. Nettie: Will you tell us about your family? George: I got two sons—and they’re both high school graduates—-and then he started—the War come along—he went to work and started to take night school in Endicott High School to be a pilot, and he went along. They picked ten men out of the class to go to work and take flying lessons in the Endicott Airport—so, he was one of the ten—so then he went to work after that certain length—-certain courses to go through. Then they took, out of the ten—they picked out five others to go for another course of flying, and he went along—he won every one of them because—so things come along, and the report come out from Washington that all the civilians in pilot training have to join the service—and there's ten of them up in Endicott. There were some from Massachusetts, some from New York in the class—so they got together and, “We got to join, we got to join the service”—so they went to the Navy-Army recruiting station here. They wanted to enlist as pilots in aviation in the government—they wouldn't take them, so they decided to go to New York and got the Navy Department up there to see if they could take them in. Well, they had a meeting there, the twelve men, and they said, “We will.” He says, “Gonna take a couple of you, two of you is gonna pass. One is perfect—he's in from right today—he's in.” That was my son. They take him for this one. “From today on, you're a Navy man. Go out and buy a uniform and the government will pay for ‘em—and the government will pay for ‘em.” And the other boy, he's a boy from Owego—they gave him thirty days to fix up his teeth and report back in New York in thirty days, and he was appointed after that—so my son was in there. He trained pilots for the Navy for I think, for two and a half years. So then they went to work—so, they kinda closed down on that after, they went to work—they send them out to be instructed to be fighter pilots, so my son, the older boy, is a Navy fighter pilot, and they laid him off and he got through with the rank of Commander—from Ensign to Commander is quite a step without a big education—so he came back home, and he wanted—to put in full time and part time. He's got 27 years in as a Navy pilot. Nettie: Is he living here—in the Triple Cities? George: He's living here—he's living up above us on this street. He's got two boys, both college graduates. Both work for American Airlines—one works out of the super—vice president's office—the older one works out of the vice president's office as a troubleshooter or something, and the other one, the younger one, works in the accounting office, and my younger boy, Joe, he works, lives with me here—and he's been working ever since he graduated college—er—high school, for GAF for 34 1/2 years, and he got laid off. Nettie: That was sad. George: Yeah. He can't get a job—to get a job for $2.65 an hour—but when you’re making more money than that, try and get a job. Try and get a job. Nettie: I know. It is very hard. George: Them are the situations. Nettie: Mr. Macko, when you worked at Olum's, what kind of wages did you get—years ago, compared to wages now? George: I started there at $25.00 a week—you work from 8 o'clock to 9, 10 o'clock at night. Nettie: Every day? George: Every day, every day. Nettie: How did they deliver furniture? Must have had buggies? George: They had a truck—truck. Nettie: They always had trucks? George: Yeah, I was a salesman, I was a salesman—help uncrate the stuff, crate the stuff, polish the stuff, truck driving. I done everything, even swept the floor in the store. Nettie: For $25.00 a week? That was when? How long ago? George: That was back about 1924-1925. Nettie: Now the wages are different, right? George: Then we got a raise. Then, when Horvatt Bank went under in 1929, we had to take a cut in wages again. Nettie: Oh. George: The boss lost his money—so them are the things. Nettie: How about the charge accounts? Will you explain? George: They have charge accounts—which is a good account—good charge account. They'd have—before, they didn't use to have a charge account, and especially when we had floods. The people that were born here and they owed him more, more. Mr. Olum didn't crowd them—anything—he asked them to go along, “Pay a little as you can,” he said [inaudible] and you work along with ‘em. Then after that, he'd take the furniture and have it fixed for repairs—stuff like that—and then he started a Red Circle Credit Bureau, which you can have—buy furniture—without paying a carrying charge on it for a year. After a year there is a carrying charge, but the carrying charge is about—at that time was, I think, about 10%—that was made on the schedule, that average was 10%. On the electrical end of it, they used to give them ninety days without a carrying charge to pay for it. If they didn't pay for it, then you had to pay a carrying charge—and the carrying is the same way they are today in the store—you're doing business directly with the store, not with outsiders. See, it is a company-owned store. Nettie: Sounds like Mr. Olum was a very nice man to work for. Sounds like he had a lot of compassion for people, the way you tell me. George: He was very good to the people, very good. That's why all the people used to go to him, because he was so nice to ‘em—he was a Jew but he was like one of us, as far as that goes. Nettie: Is he still living? George: Oh yes, he'll be coming home from Florida in April. He's going to be 84 years old and I'll be 83—the same day—yeah. He was a very nice man to work for—-because I lived there—er, worked there that long. Nettie: He sounds like a very nice man. George: Yeah. Nettie: Going back to Clinton Street, do you remember any people or characters who were colorful—someone comical—something outstanding about certain people? George: Well— Nettie: Maybe someone prominent? George: There weren't any too prominent. They was all congenial—all happy, jolly, full of jokes, etc. Nettie: Well, do you want to tell me anything else, Mr. Macko? George: I don't know— Nettie: What social life did you have? George: My social life was very good. My wife—we're married 62 years, will be 62. We got along good—we raised a family of two boys—getting along right now—getting along good right now, thank God. As far as social life, we can't complain—as long as we are healthy and well, that's the main thing, the rest will come gradually. Nettie: Do you belong to any clubs? George: Just the First Ward citizens. Nettie: Do you go out there? Do you have your meals there? George: I haven't been in there quite a while. Look, all winter long I haven't drove my car—from the day—all winter long. The boy, younger boy stayed home, he said, "Stay home. Never mind driving the car, roads are so bad—get off of them," so I stayed home and didn't drive. Nettie: It was a bad winter, wasn't it? George: Oh, it was awful. Nettie: Is there anything you have interesting for our tape? Something on your mind? George: Say, there is one thing. You go down to First Ward Library, there is a library book in Slovak that was made by Mr. Mazar and Paul Sasinek. I saw it four years ago—has the history of the Slovak people in the Ward here. If you get a chance to look it up, you'll see it. Nettie: I think it will be very nice. George: I think you'll get a whole lot out of that. Nettie: Well, Mr. Macko, it was a pleasure of you giving us information for our tape. Thank you very much. George: You’re welcome, I assure you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with George J. Macko Subject The topic of the resource Macko, George -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Czechs--United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Politics; Broome Community College; Broome County (N.Y.). Supervisors, Board of; Binghamton Glass Co.; Olum's Furniture Co.; Glassblowing; Clinton Street neighborhood; First Ward; Interpreter; Broome County Airport; St. Michael's Church Description An account of the resource Macko talks about his father immigrating from Czeckoslavia and settling in Binghamton, NY. Both his parents died when he was young and he and his siblings lived with a relative. At fourteen he left school to work for the Binghamton Glass Co. where he learned the glassblowing trade. He details the operation of the glassblowing. He left there after ten years to work for Olums Furniture Co. on Clinton Street. He worked there for fifty-one years. He describes the Clinton Street neighborhood and the businesses located there. He served as an interperter and assisted immigrants in the community with paperwork for mortgages and citizenship. After retiring he became involved in politics. He served as a County Supervisor for twenty years representing the First Ward. He speaks of being on several committees during his time as a County Supervisor and was involved with the creation of Broome Technical School [Broome Community College] and the Broome County Airport. He also served as a board member of St. Michael's Church. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fa Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 71 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Macko, George J. ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-30 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:03 Minutes ; 10:20 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/b0beeb664da950ecb8ffee504e48b7b5.mp3 640c6746647c65abe515d55ec0b1c7a6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Marie Nejame Freije Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Dates of interviews: 6 March 1978 and 6 April 1978 [Interview #2: 6 April 1978] Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Marie Freije of 60 Matthews St., Binghamton, NY, on April 6, 1978. Marie, we will go back to the interview you had the last time, and tell me more about the camel trip you took across the desert in nine days and nights. Marie: I'll be glad to—try to recollect everything that we went through. To begin with, we were living in the—what they call the Arabian Mountains, and my brother, Fred, who was at the time 18 years old, and that he joined the First World War, and he was associated with Prince Faisal of Arabia, who later became King of Iraq. The Prince sent him to the mountains to fetch about 1000 soldiers, but they were pro-French and they were fighting against the Turks. My brother was taking my mother and I back to Egypt where we lived—so, my mother and I traveled along with the caravan of 600 camels and about 1100 soldiers, most of them, naturally, on foot. The trip to Aqaba, where Faisal was, took us nine days and nine nights through the Arabian desert. Now we, my mother and I rode the camel. They built a basket—big basket on top of the camel for us to lay in and they had a cover (net) to protect us from the sun and the sand. Fortunately, we did not come across any sandstorms at that time of the year—so, and—we were at times running short of water, as there was very little water in the desert—just what come across probably two or three oases where there would be a pond of water, dirty water with scum and what we to—mother would use her veil—thin veil—put it over the water so we could drink from it—take water and carry it ’til the next stop that we will find another oasis. On the way, about two days before we reached Aqaba, we came across outlaws that are in the distance. They started shooting on us with submachine guns, but fortunately we—that was about the first time that we were down in the valley, because usually the sand—I mean—the desert is all flat—mostly, and the whole caravan started to go down—before that—I wanted to ride the dromedary, which, it would be a young camel—which is the one hump. I made my brother's valet go down so I could ride his dromedary. I was about six years old—six and a half—and—so was riding it—that's when the outlaw was shooting at us, and the bullet just about passed my ear. He grabbed me and got me down—if that hit me, I would not be here to tell the story. So, we went down and then the great big horde of men, Arabs, went up with machine guns, singing and hollering and they started shooting back at them—so, when the outlaws—so that—we are overpowering them, they took off but we have to be on the cover all the way to hold up the train—you might say—so that night we arrived at this Sheik's domain—in the desert. They lived in the tents there. This Sheik is under the governorship of the Prince, so we were treated royally, and they gave my mother, I, and our maid a tent by ourselves, and they had guards. So, when the guards were not there during the evening—now before going to sleep, the maid was combing my hair, which was way down to my hips, and then one of the Arab boys started to peek through the tent and one would tell the other, "Didn't I tell you this was a girl, and it's not a boy?” because they had me dressed as a boy to be disguised, because it wasn't safe for a white girl to be dressed in a dress, and below the ear and stood it top of the head—(supposedly hair) would kidnap her—so the maid heard them—and she ran out to my brother's tent and told him. So, the Sheik got hold of these boys, tied them up, and he put other guards around our tent for the night. The next day we traveled one full day to reach Aqaba, and we arrived and the Prince had accommodations for the women—meaning, my mother and I, and our maid who’d take care of us. We were there one week. My brother was commended by Prince Faisal for doing such a fine job and accumulating all these soldiers to be—he took the—dagger, which only royalty wear, which was solid gold, dagger with all precious stones—and put it on my brother's waist. We still have this dagger, which is very beautiful. As a matter of fact, the Prince gave me a dagger—black onyx, like with mother of pearl, and I was dressed with this Arab-like costume until we reached Egypt. It really was quite an experience. Oh, I forgot to tell you, after we were attacked by these captives, by the outlaws, we ran across another attack—and this time was a boa (constrictor)—these huge snakes that stands up, all black, stands up in the air—it—well—it just could kill anybody—in the path, stand up like a pole, you know, and the men then shot with—several men shot with submachine guns and killed her. That was another bad, very bad and horrifying experience, that's why I’m afraid of snakes all my life, due to that experience. Nettie: Are there many snakes like that out in the desert? Marie: No, not too much, but those that are there are huge and deadly—they're deadly, yes, very much so. Nettie: Marie, when you were going across the desert, you slept in the tent. How about the others? Marie: They slept just on the sand—yes, oh yes, sitting up, sleeping any way they can find a little comfort—you call it comfort. Nettie: What did you say that you had for food? Marie: Food, they had to prepare, ’cause we had bread and cheese and hard-boiled eggs and other—some wheat germ that is cooked—you know—that you can eat cold, you know, with bread to last it for nine days. We were lucky to have enough food and water so that we didn't really starve or died of thirst—yes—we survived that—and then from there we went on an English boat—you know, to Alexandria, Egypt. We got—arrived there four months before the war ended. We stayed there ‘til 1922, when we came to this country. Nettie: Marie, at one time you told me you took a trip with someone to Egypt, and I think it would be interesting to know about Egypt, plus telling us about Pyramids there. Marie: Oh yes, I made my first trip back to Egypt and Lebanon in 1964, and my uncle was a doctor there—he took us all over, of course. I was a young girl when I left there, about fourteen years old, when I left Egypt to come to this country. It was a new experience again for me. Naturally, we went to the Pyramids and they're really something to see. It was beautiful, I got our pictures there. Nettie: Marie, how would, say, the height of a pyramid would be, according to a—maybe a building around here? Marie: Perhaps, if I can recollect , it could be something like to be probably, to be forty stories, that the highest one, then you have the middle one, then you have the small one, then you have the—then you—the middle one, the only one that has the tombs inside, where some of the Pharaohs and Princes and Queens are buried there—you have guards to take you in—is—rather frightening, I never went in—really—‘cause— (Laughing). They are all man-made—as you know—in those—you, the Pharaohs—thousands of people died building it, and they carry all these stone on their backs all the way up, many of them would fall or get killed. Nettie: They say they are made so perfect, is that right? Marie: Well, perfect for those days, yes—they are not made putting with cement with each other, just— Nettie: Isn't there anything else you want to tell us, or experiences you can tell us— Marie: They had beautiful museums there that are really beautiful to see, and the mosques—Mohammed mosques that are very beautiful. The walls are—at least of couple of them that were there were made of alabaster—all the chandeliers are gold filigree, and this is another thing, when anybody has to go into the mosque you cannot go with your shoes—you take your shoes outside and the guard gives you linen slippers to tie on your feet to go in and see the mosque. Nettie: That's what they call their Holy Place, isn't it? Marie: Yes. Nettie: I think at one time you told me something, the Pyramids—about a certain record that was made. Marie: Oh yes, yes—they have—this is something that the Frenchman invented and wrote the book and developed a record—also, it is what they call "Light and Sound." It is done at night, because they—it's done in French, English, and Arabic at different nights—they have chairs like a theater, you know, and there's the commenter who commentates, you know—the narrator, I should say—and the light would be thrown on the, let's say, on the Sphinx, say, for an instance, and the voice would come out from the Sphinx and they would tell the history of Egypt and the Pharaohs and Queens, etc. It was beautiful—very beautiful. In fact they were thinking—it was written up here in the U.S. papers that they were trying to see if they could do it on Washington, D.C., but it never went through. It was something to see—fascinating—very interesting—they are talking about the certain one of the Pyramids, and then the light would go on and the sound would come out, as if it was coming from inside. It was beautiful. Nettie: I don't recall anything else. Marie, do you have anything else to tell us? Marie: No, I just wish that my brother was living at when they made the picture of Lawrence of Arabia, because him and Lawrence were together with King Faisal—they worked with King Faisal. Did you ever see the movie? Nettie: Yes, I did, Marie. Marie: Well I lived it—I lived it again—because that was, we were mixed up in it—you know. (Laughing). Nettie: To you—it’s more interesting since you lived it than it, more than it would be to us. Well, Marie, I appreciate you telling us more about this. Thank you very much. Marie: Thank you too. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55916">Interview with Marie Nejame Freije</a> Date of Interview 1978-04-06 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Freije, Marie Nejame Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:46 Minutes Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Freije, Marie Nejame -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Lebanon; Johnson City (N.Y.); Bridal shops; Businesswomen -- Interviews; Cooking, Lebanese; World War, 1914-1918 Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marie Nejame Freije, Part 2 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Freije, Marie Nejame ; Politylo, Nettie Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Subject The topic of the resource Freije, Marie Nejame -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Lebanon; Johnson City (N.Y.); Bridal shops; Businesswomen -- Interviews; Cooking, Lebanese; World War, 1914-1918 Description An account of the resource Marie Nejame Freije talks about her upbringing in Lebanon, and her family's flight from the country to Egypt due to war and the grueling nine day journey that almost killed her. She discusses running a bridal shop in Johnson City, NY after coming to the United States. After 38 years, she retired and married. She details Lebanese culture and foods, as well as the fundraisers in which she participates that benefits St. Jude's Hospital and area high school students. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-06 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 24 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:15 Minutes ; 16:46 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/600a1e85c69a527c1c0afe6b6c3e812f.mp3 86f7bca1c9b7fb3660e28cf5af15bd6a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Celeste, Daniel Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-11 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:12 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55880">Interview with Daniel Celeste</a> Subject LCSH Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Daniel Celeste Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 11 April 1978 Dan O’Neil: OK, Danny, if you will tell me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting from where you were born. Daniel Celeste: Where I born, I born in Faeto, it’s in the town of Faeto, Province of Foggio–that’s the province of the, like the state, like you say, the— O’Neil: In Italy. Celeste: Yeah, in Italy, and then we—Dad came here because he was here before, and ah, he brought me and my brother with him. We emigrate then from Faeto to Naples, and from Naples we come right into United States. O’Neil: What year was that, Danny? Celeste: 19—1908. O’Neil: 1908. Celeste: 1908, and we came to Binghamton. We had some relatives here—some cousins and relations, so Dad went, ah, laboring around whatever, he got a job and I went to school for a couple of months that, that year, and then I went, we went on, ah, on, ah, construction work, and took me along with him and I was waterboy there. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And ah, in Fabius—Fabius, NY, that’s where we—first job, ah, I really worked, and ah, we lived in a shanty, was in the camp, you know what I mean, about a couple hundred people that were in there—Christ, camping outside—and Dad didn’t want to stay in the shanty. We built a little setup there under the tree and, ah, we slept outside. (Laughter.) Well, then as I’d grow older I would come back, and, and he used to take me down to Pennsylvania and he used to work in the mine in the wintertime, had some cousins there, and ah, I used to go to school—I’d go to school for a couple of months of the winter, and ah, in the spring we’d come do the same thing, go construction work, and I was waterboy. Finally I got a job as in a transfer, trucking, freight, things like that. I stayed home with—we lived on Henry Street, we came on Henry Street and, ah, I then went to work in the freighthouse, and trucking, that’s about, oh, about two years I work in the freighthouse. O’Neil: What freighthouse, Danny? Celeste: The Lackawanna. O’Neil: The Lackawanna. Celeste: Yeah, Lackawanna Transfer, they used to call it. Transfer, Lackawanna Transfer, and ah, from there I went to the, I went to Dunn McCarthy. I got a job in Dunn McCarthy and worked there for a little while, 1914, 1915. I went away for a little time—I went to Chicago—I spent six months there, stayed with a friend of mine. I couldn’t get a job then, then hard times, them days. Came back home, I got a job in a shoe factory afterwards, ah. O’Neil: E.J. [Endicott Johnson]? Celeste: No, not E.J. O’Neil: Dunn McCarthy. Celeste: Dunn McCarthy. I worked there for about a year, then I went to E.J.’s, got a job in E.J.’s. Then 19—late 1915, I joined the Battery C, National Guard. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: The following year we got called in the service and went to the Mexican border in 19—1916, and ah, after we come back from the border, we were home for about three or four months, then the War was declared. O’Neil: This was the First World War. Celeste: First World War. Then we went on active service in ’17, May ’17. ‘18 we come home, we got home in March, March 12 from overseas duty. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: After I come home from service, I started the restaurant in, ah, I think it was in June—I opened up that restaurant Henry Street and I spent the rest of my life in the restaurant business. O’Neil: Now this, what year was it you started up in, ah—? Celeste: 1919. O’Neil: 1919, OK. Celeste: 1919. Then of course we didn’t have no license them days, you know—just the restaurant, but we did bootlegging at first—(laughter)—sold a little wine, a little whiskey. O’Neil: Did you make your own wine, Danny? Celeste: Yeah—oh God, yeah. O’Neil: Was it the “Dago red” wine? Celeste: “Dago red,” what they called “Dago red.” One year I made 100, 107 barrels of wine. O’Neil: Is that right? Where did you get the grapes for all that? Celeste: California. O’Neil: California. Celeste: A fella used to, John Morelli, used to bring it in from California, and he was a cousin of mine so I made all this wine, and a short time later, got it made—I put a little here, a little there. They raid me—they took about thirty barrels away from me but I got a lot more left. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: So I followed up that business and stayed right in the business—when the License came back, why, ah, I got the restaurant and liquor license and beer license and got in the right business and was there until 1919-1960 when the State bought Henry Street out, you know, to put that overhead. O’Neil: Yeah, right, Brandywine. Celeste: Bought part of Henry Street and they had to take me down. O’Neil: Right, right. Celeste: Goddamn thing, my, my poor wife got sick over it. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Then she, ah, we were doing good business. O’Neil: Oh, you did a fine business down there. Celeste: Did a good business down there, and I had the whole family—my daughter was married and living upstairs and we live on the second floor—had all the accommodations we want and we lived fine and, ah, no complaint. Came here on Court Street—we bought the place and remodeled. O’Neil: What was it called then, Danny? The place on Court Street? Celeste: What was it called? O’Neil: Yeah, was there a restaurant there before? Celeste: It was a grocery store. O’Neil: Oh, a grocery store. Celeste: It was Buck’s Grocery. O’Neil: Oh, Buck’s—-yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Celeste: And then, ah, so we torn down everything inside and built it up new and everything. I put in over $100,000 in the goddamn place. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Why, I wanted to buy my son-in-law a liquor store, but he liked the restaurant business. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: That’s bad today, like the restaurant business. That’s all right—the hell, one thing is as good as the other. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: He liked the work and poor Bill had to get sick. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Of course when Bill give up and I stayed a little while myself—I couldn’t take care of it, know what I mean, then. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Got in trouble with my eyes and started putting me down a little bit. After my wife died in ’68, I hang around the place a little bit with other boys, you know that I—-it wasn’t just right, I didn’t feel just right. O’Neil: Right. Celeste: So when I sold the place—the first time I sold it— O’Neil: What year was that? Celeste: ’60—1960, sold the restaurant on Court Street. O’Neil: ’60—1960. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: OK. Celeste: And, ah, 1960, and then I stood around town—didn’t do too much. I used to hang around the restaurant, help Jim—-I can’t think of his last name now. Was Jim—oh God almighty, Jim, Jim— O’Neil: No matter. Celeste: Just ah, well, he spent, Jim spent about three years in there then and left his son in there, and his son run the business himself and then, ah, somebody else took it over then there. O’Neil: Was that LaMonica? Celeste: Jim—no, not LaMonica. He’s from Endicott. Jim, ah, Capullo, Jim Capullo. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: And he’s in there for about three or four years, and boy did and then they run the place down—then they sold it. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: And, ah, get started again, and that’s the end of it for me. That’s when these other guys come in, laid around and operated a Greek restaurant. O’Neil: The Retsina now. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Now when did you—now from the time that you were—your place was torn down on Henry Street, didn’t you go to the Community Lounge? Celeste: Yeah, yeah. O’Neil: What year, what year did you go there? Celeste: Oh, I had still run on Henry Street at the time. O’Neil: Oh, you still had the place on Henry Street. Celeste: Yeah, yeah, I went in there with Bill Viglione. Remember Bill? O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah— O’Neil: What year was that, Danny? Celeste: ’47. O’Neil: ’47. Celeste: I just spent a couple of years there—I didn’t stay there. I went back to Henry Street there, came back to Henry Street and stayed there until after we sold—changed over then, you know. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: ’47 or ’48, ’49, I forgot who, then somebody else went in there—well, they operated, anyway. O’Neil: Now, who was the prior owner of the Community—he had an Irish name—what was his name? You took it over from him—he died, do you remember his name? Celeste: Just can’t think of his name now. His brother used to run the place on Water Street. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: Remember those places—one on Chenango Street, used to run—took Yannuzzi’s place? O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Oh God, I forget. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Quite a nice fellow. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Yeah, we took it from this fella—I can’t think of his name now. O’Neil: Why did you, why did you leave the Community, ah, Danny? Celeste: I, ah, I didn’t like too much confusement with, with other confusement. O’Neil: Yeah. When you were working there, did Liberace, was he—did he come? Celeste: Oh yes, yes, Liberace played there. Sure, sure, the Community. O’Neil: In what year was that, did you recall? Celeste: Well, I say Liberace played there in ’47, ’48. O’Neil: ’48—about a year or so after you took over. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Any other, ah, ah, big names play there in the Community that you can recall? Celeste: I can’t just, ah, geez—you remember more than I do. (Laughter.) No, I don’t, to tell you the truth—we always had a band there. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah, of course, Liberace was quite an entertainer there. O’Neil: Yeah—do you remember what he was paid a week at that time? Celeste: Oh, couldn’t have, about $100, not more than $150 a week. O’Neil: Is that right? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: He’s a multimillionaire today. Celeste: Right, yes—well, we passed it. O’Neil: Now, what were some of the main restaurants in town, Danny, during your era? What would you say were the main restaurants in town? We had quite a few of them. Celeste: Garvey’s. O’Neil: That was up on the north side. Celeste: No, Garvey’s was on Chenango Street. O’Neil: On Chenango Street, but on the north side, though, wasn’t it? Celeste: Yeah, towards the—no, not on the north side—right on the, near the bank. O’Neil: Oh, was he? Celeste: Yeah, Garvey’s and Hodge. O’Neil: Steve Hodge. Celeste: Steve Hodge—on State Street was a nice restaurant. O’Neil: Pitch’s. Celeste: Pitch’s. O’Neil: Pitch’s Oyster House. Celeste: Well, Pitch’s was on State Street, I think. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Pitch’s on State Street, yeah, I think they got State Street. O’Neil: And then they had a restaurant in the Bennett Hotel. Celeste: Oh yeah, the Bennett Hotel, they had a restaurant. O’Neil: Yeah—San Souci Grill. (Laughter.) Celeste: You tell me, you remember all those things—I should remember, but anymore. O’Neil: How old are you, Danny? Celeste: I’ll be 80 in July. O’Neil: 80 in July, OK, and how old were you when you emigrated from Italy? Celeste: I was 10 years old. O’Neil: 10 years old, uh huh, so your education is—what would you say was the highest grade that you went to? Celeste: In the third grade in Italy. O’Neil: Third grade in Italy, and over here you went to school. Celeste: I went to school about four or five months over the time. O’Neil: All the time? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Is that right? Celeste: And I went to night school later in the years, you know. I took up a little night school. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: That’s nights I went to school. O’Neil: Uh huh—now, when you started on Henry Street, ah, did you buy a building to start your restaurant? Celeste: We lease it first, but I put the business, we bought the building, in 1919 we bought the building. O’Neil: But you leased it at first. Celeste: Yeah, we leased it first—we rented from, hooo, geez—a good Irish name, too, Irish family, very nice, ah, the boy’s still walking around—Danny—I can’t think of his last name now. O’Neil: But you leased it when you came back out of service after World War I? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: After World War I, so about 1918. Celeste: 1919. O’Neil: And started in business for yourself? And you leased the building, is that right? Celeste: Oh, we used to live there. O’Neil: Oh, you used to live there. Celeste: We moved in there in 1911. O’Neil: Oh, but was it a brick building then or did you remodel it? Celeste: We remodeled the front. O’Neil: Oh, I see. Celeste: I put the—I remodeled the front. O’Neil: Umhm. Celeste: It was around 1930, ’31 that I remodeled the front. O’Neil: I see. Celeste: Just before, before the beer came back. O’Neil: Yeah, but from the time you opened up until the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment, why, you made your own wine, is that right? Celeste: Yeah, oh yeah, made—Christ, made all kinds of wine. (Laughter.) O’Neil: Probably made more money on the wine than you did on the spaghetti, huh? Celeste: Oh God, yes—-well was 25¢ a bottle. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: 25¢ a bottle, $1.00 a gallon. O’Neil: Uh huh. Well, they raided you when—raided you one year and took thirty barrels? Celeste: They raided me the year they took thirty barrels away from me. O’Neil: Left you better than seventy barrels left, huh? Celeste: That Slocum son of a bitch—they still call him a son of a bitch. O’Neil: Slocum? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: What was he, ah— Celeste: He was, ah, squad, ah, him and, ah, a Polish fella they got—he’s still, ah, retired now. I see him once in a while. O’Neil: Yeah—it don’t matter. Celeste: Yeah, ah, Barvinchak. O’Neil: Barvinchack. Celeste: Yeah, they come in and said they just wanted to see the place, you know, just, ah— O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And, ah, they had a party upstairs—well, this was upstairs, well, you know, before had some upstairs and downstairs—ah, they come upstairs, they wanted to see what was in there, and Christ, I had a supply of beer for the night, you know, stuff, wine and things like that—said, “We’ll have to take it, you can’t drink.” They took it all with them, broke it later—I don’t know if they broke it. O’Neil: Did you make beer too? Celeste: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Christ, beer. Boy, my wife used to make beer and she made a damn good beer. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: One lady came up to me—show her how to make beer. My God, and she improved every time she made beer. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: She made a damn good brew. Very, a lot of people used to come up for that brew. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And, ah, up to 1929-30, we had our own beer, our own wine, you know how it is. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But we got the [inaudible] back of beer, when the regular beer came back, then I took everything out—give it away, most of the stuff was left. Whatever was left I give my, “Why here, here’s a case of beer.” I didn’t want to be implicated in, ah, you know, mean, find fault for coming back and say, “He’s still bootlegging,” and things like that. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: So I started to live a very clean life from that time on—nice business. O’Neil: I know you had a real good business. Celeste: Had a nice business. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Had a good chef—couple of chefs, used to put on a good feed. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: And I helped in the kitchen lots of the time. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: Used to get in the kitchen, and then after my daughter got married and my son-in-law took over, I just hanged around the place—I didn’t have much to do. O’Neil: Yeah, Yeah. Celeste: That’s how I happened to go in the Community that time. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But I was glad to get back home again. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: I had a place on Henry Street right next to the morning Sun—you know there used to be a morning Sun and used to be on the corner of State.  O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And just that building next door, there, and ah, on the second floor we had the, we had a restaurant there, had a— O’Neil: What year was this? Celeste: In 1928 or ’29. O’Neil: So you had two of them going at the same time, and ah, how long were you in that business, or how long had you retained that? Celeste: Oh, was in there—this friend of mine, John, he was quite a card player—he liked to gamble and he used to go out. Well, we broke up—we didn’t. You know, lot’s of times you came in and bought a drink and I took the money, I ring the money, “No sale.” O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: And, and put the money in there, ’cause I didn’t want those people to think marked “Liquor” on the register, and John said, ah, “Why don’t you ring the—?” I say, “John,” I say, “lots of time the inspectors come in—the food inspectors, and they like to check.” I didn’t want to show what we sell because we wasn’t supposed to have any beer. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: But anyway, we broke up—we couldn’t get along no more—I couldn’t trust him no more, he didn’t trust me, and I, I had to quit. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: When a person don’t trust me, I don’t like to be involved, to think that I was gypping him and other things. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: Finally applied for—used to work up up at the tax office in the city—it’ll come to me sometime when I don’t want to— O’Neil: Hennessy. Celeste: Not Hennessy, no. O’Neil: Sheehan. Celeste: Ah— O’Neil: What awards have you had in—had any awards at all, Danny? Militarily or in the restaurant business or anything like that? Celeste: No, no. O’Neil: Any clubs you belong to? Celeste: Oh, I belong to the Eagles, belong to the Elks for quite, ah—joined, belonged to the Eagles, the Moose them days—I used to join them and get acquainted with the people. O’Neil: Right. Celeste: Used to go down to the Veterans’ Clubs, you know, VFW and Legion. O’Neil: Uh huh—were you pretty active in the Legion affairs? Celeste: I was very active, yeah. O’Neil: Uh huh, did you hold any offices in the Legion? Celeste: No no, was a Sergeant in the Drum Corps and that’s all when it first started, and then, ah, I done a lot of work that I should have done that I used to go to the Legion a lot. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: Help the Legion out that way. O’Neil: Is there anything else of interest, Danny, you would like to tell me? Can you think of anything else? Celeste: God, I think I’ve told you everything you wanted to know. O’Neil: Uh huh. Celeste: You can ask me, I mean, if I can— O’Neil: Yeah. Yeah, ah, when you went into service, of course you had already been in the service—you joined up so you weren’t, you didn’t have to go through any Draft Board or anything in World War I? Celeste: No, no. O’Neil: Yeah, yeah. Celeste: No—was in Battery C. O’Neil: Yeah—in Battery C. Celeste: I joined them in 1915, just before 1916. Then the War broke out and they organized it—they called the guards out—they shipped us down to the Mexican border there in (McClellan trucks) and we were down there for five or six months and, ah— O’Neil: Now the Retsina building—you still own it, don’t you now, Danny? Celeste: Yeah, I still own it. O’Neil: So you just lease it to the— Celeste: Lease it. O’Neil: And it’s a Greek restaurant, I guess, now. Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I got that parking lot over on the corner of Pine and Carroll Street. O’Neil: Oh, do you lease that out to Dietzsch, Dietzsch Pontiac and Cadillac? Celeste: Yeah. O’Neil: That’s good, that’s good. Celeste: Yeah, I want to sell it. I got a little mortgage still going on, but I want to sell the restaurant—get rid of it. O’Neil: Yeah—Giant made you any offer or anything else, or are they interested at all? Celeste: Well, I don’t think those boys there got any money. I don’t know who’s backing them up, but, ah— O’Neil: Well, they’ve got a lot of money. (Laughter.) Celeste: Think so. I hope so, I hope so. O’Neil: ’Course, there’s quite a bit of property between you—well, not an awful lot—not an awful lot. Celeste: I think someday that, that corner will be torn down for a little hotel. You know, that’s a fine sport for a little hotel right in center part of the city. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I wish somebody would start it and promote, I mean, I’m not in the real estate business, but I mean, I can see a hotel on that corner better than I can see where the hell, down out of the way where transient is, not, you know, I mean, like on Water Street, where the ah—what’s the hotel there on—the big hotel they got? O’Neil: You mean the Treadway? Celeste: Yeah, the Treadway. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: That’s out the way and you can’t even see it. Here’s one in the center of the city where traffic, transient business all, all the way around. O’Neil: Yeah. Celeste: And I think that it’d make a swell spot for a hotel. O’Neil: OK, and what church do you belong to, Danny? Still belong to— Celeste: St. Mary’s Church. O’Neil: St. Mary’s—still go there. Yeah, OK, well if there isn’t anything else that you can think of, Danny, why— Celeste: Just ask me. O’Neil: Well, we’ll terminate it on this note. Celeste: Anything, anything that you like to. O’Neil: Well, I think we’ve covered everything that I, we want to—I mean, I can think to ask you. you’ve been in the restaurant business all your life and been very successful at it. You retired in what year? Celeste: ’60, ’69—1970. O’Neil: 1970, OK, well would you like me to play it back for you, Danny? Celeste: (Laughter.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Daniel Celeste Subject The topic of the resource Celeste, Daniel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Restaurateurs -- Interviews; Prohibition; National Guard; Community Lounge; Security Mutual Building Description An account of the resource Dan Celeste talks about his emigration from Italy at age ten, his various jobs before joining the National Guard, and opening a restaurant in post-WWI Binghamton. He discusses raids and difficulty with business during the depression and prohibition age, then his acquisition of the Community Lounge in the Security Mutual Building. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-11 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Celeste, Daniel ; O'Neil, Dan Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:12 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9671ac1c2c5282310cd827553c8f51a0.mp3 0253d71a205ff05105f5180224e433f2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ondrako, Fred Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-04-19 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:43 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55989">Interview with Fred Ondrako</a> Subject LCSH Ondrako, Fred -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Forest City (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Dunn & McCarthy cigar factory; St. Cyril & Methodius Church Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mr. Fred Ondrako Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 19 April 1978 Susan: Mr. Ondrako, could you start by telling us where you were born, something about your parents, and how you happened to settle here in Broome County? Fred: I was born in Forest City, Pennsylvania May 24, 1905. I went to school in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania schools there. My father worked on a railroad for about two dollars an hour. I mean two dollars a day and they're emigrated from Czechoslovakia. Well I never saw my grandmother or grandfather either. Susan: A lot of us haven’t—so continue. Fred: Well I don't know now where to go to.  Susan: Where did you go to school? Fred: I went to school in Forest City— Susan: —talk up. Fred: I went to school in Forest City to school in Pennsylvania at the No. 1 School. Susan: How many years? Fred: Well I just finished 8th grade then I went to work in a grocery store. I worked in a grocery store while I was attending school and from the grocery store I went a to work in a to help out in a silk mill for a couple hours in the evening and I was old enough to go to work in a in the mines in a breaker in the mines. I worked there for 10¢ an hour. That's about what I had there we a— We moved to Binghamton, NY, at 1920. I started I looked an ad in the paper, I got a job trying to sell some salves—salves and medicine which I worked there one day I couldn't make no sales and a I got a for that sale I made I come—I made that—I made that money I picked up for they sent me out for something to deliver that day when I got through there I quit that day. I got 10¢ for that one pick up there and then a I went—I went to work in a cigar factory on Wall St. in Binghamton, NY. I worked there and had a branch office at a by the theater—that theater over there— Susan: Continue, it's all right. Fred: I can't think of that street. I was transferred to a cigar factory up on upper Clinton St. and from there I got a job in Dunn McCarthy’s and I worked there for fifty-one years and one day and that was hard work. I a put on, I had a clock on me on my belt. There was days I walked 18-19 miles a day. I started out with 25¢ an hour and when I built myself up to 40-45¢ an hour I was the happiest man in the world. That was something that's the tops I thought I was doing good which everyone wanted to get that 45¢ an hour an average. That was something we a had slow times during the Depression and I worked about 2 or 3 days a week there made nine-ten dollars for a week for the two or three days we worked and I—I was married I had one daughter. We had a to get along with $9-10 a day (meant to say week). If it wasn't for a break from my mother-in-law, why I could never make it. Susan: Tell us what you did as a child for fun? Fred: When I was a youngster a boy this was when I was just a kid we used to go for in a—we used to go for strawberries first that was strawberry season we have to go for strawberries that was about a few miles out in the woods there get strawberries and then a blueberry season come in we used to go to get up I was seven years old we used to get up about 5-6 in the morning walk up the blueberry mountain there with our pails and a—a the mountain was pretty well infested with rattlesnakes there. Susan: I was going to say that there was a danger. Fred: There was danger there where a we went to when I'd kneel down and tried to pick some berries up I'd make sure I didn't see no snakes around and after we got through why we had to take a bath and a a take our buckets or pails about 2 ten quart pails—2 ten quart pails and take a street car it used to cost us 5¢ to go about 10 miles to try to sell them. We used to take the berries and leave them in a hotel there we asked them if we could leave them there and a we left them there and we tried to get some sales first before we went to pick and see how many quarts they want why we left them there by time we come back we there was a lot of berries missing—there was quarts of berries missing some people stole them on us we'd come back home again we didn't have enough money. My mother would say where the money was well I said, “a I don't know,” I said, “I come back there wasn't all my berries weren't there someone must have stolen them,” so then I—I got a 5¢ for all that work for going up berry mountains, washed up, take a bath and tried to sell some berries. I come back and then I got 5¢ to go to the Nickolet. About the way my parents were— Then a when we done anything—anything wrong my parents a punish us for that. We didn't get away with anything and my father was the protector. My mother wanted to hit us but my father (chuckle) said, “No don't hit them,” after my father didn't want to so my mother hit us—hit me and she a she pushed him on the side and I really got it. We had to obey just what we were taught. We had to obey that if not we got a licking for it. We didn't get away with nothing them days. Susan: How how about your children how did you raise your children? Fred: And a my children I raised my children up I think pretty good. They obeyed good they listened a to what I told them then a when I gave them an allowance. I knew the allowance I was getting. Some other kid might have been getting a dollar or so over a dollar a week and I was only giving my children only 25¢ a week. Susan: And they worked for it. Fred: They done the work my son done the cleaning of the house when we were working me and my wife were working they a my son cleaned the house there he took care of the house. Susan: What is he doing today? Fred: Oh now today he's got a real job. All he went was through high school and a he got a job in Vail Ballou and a they were all picking on him stuff like that. He didn't like the way they were picking on him because they told him he was too young to have the job he had. He was a printer there that was one of the best jobs you can get in a printing place so he had a man that worked in a Vail Ballou. He was a pretty well off there and he was a big boss there so he asked him to come to Vermont to try to get him up there so he went up there for a few months. He was going up there back and forth trying to get that job. He got that job up there and a he as soon as he come up there he—he a came back to see his wife and his two children. He come back to Binghamton here and he got sick so he had been in the hospital for a few weeks there and he wasn't even working and really you know he didn't do any work in that place where he was supposed to start and they paid his hospital bill without even working over $2,000 hospital bill. Then when he came back there well he started to work and they gave him a good job, a guaranteed job. They signed him up with a contract for a job. He got a really good job out of it. The man that gave him the job up there he was a the Vice President of the company. He was the general manager and he gave my son this a job as a superintendent of the place.  Susan: Why don't we go back a bit and tell us what you can remember about that a Mr. Kilmer’s medicine that we were talking about earlier. The Swamp Root, wasn’t it? Fred: Yeah but I didn't work for him. Susan: No but you knew of it when they were selling it? Fred: Yeah. Susan: Do you recall how much it sold for? Fred: No I don't, think it sold for about 10¢ or 12¢ something like that. It was there I remember I got to that was in the paper advertised. I went there before that was near a someplace—near a Symphony Theater, the place near Symphony Theater— Susan: —Symphony Theater— Fred: —there was— Susan: What other changes do you remember that have happened since you have been living in the community? You've been here a long time. Fred: Oh the changes here. Ah there was nothing I knew there was street cars here. Susan: Were you around when they had that big fire on a—? Fred: That was just before we came here. Susan: Just before you came here. Fred: About 1918 or ’19, we came here in 1920. Susan: Have you enjoyed living here in the Triple Cities? Fred: Oh yeah—yeah and I worked hard. Susan: Fifty one years you said. Fred: Fifty years and one day. Well I saved everything I could to have something.  Susan: Well you have a lovely home to show for it. Fred: I was buying bonds there I started first a buck or two for a week then I went up— Susan: Did you—did the war affect your life in any way? Fred: Oh I signed up for the draft but they didn't call me. Susan: They didn't call you. Fred: They didn't pick my number you see. They didn't pick my number. They didn't call me. —Clears as things oh I had this place changed everything is changed here. There used to be street car tracks. Susan: What about here on Clinton St.? Do you remember when they used to call it Russian Broadway when they had all the lights, those beautiful lights that they had? Fred: Oh they did call it—I think they called it Slovak Blvd. or something like that. Susan: Slovak—I always heard that it was Russian Blvd. Fred: I think they call it Slovak. There is more Slovaks down here I think than Russians. In our church why down in Pennsylvania we started going to church in Pennsylvania. We didn't have our own church. There was a Polish church a Polish church a— Susan: What church do you attend now? Fred: St. Cyril’s. Susan: St. Cyril’s. Fred: I've been an usher for 44 years. Susan: Forty-four years. Fred: Yeah Forty-four years. That's a lot of years 51 and now 44 years as an usher I quit, every week every Sunday for 44 years. Susan: That's a long time. Fred: Yeah. Everything is—you can't think of everything that I went through. Susan: No I realize that it is difficult. Fred: I went through and all that stuff I saw, my God, there was, we went down there, was around Easter, Palm Sunday it was. We went by the river. We went down to play baseball. It was nice and warm already and we were playing ball and there was a little girl on the bridge must have been about 5 or 6 years old on the swings you know kind of swings with plans to cross it so she said a little girl fell off the bridge there so we started running around along the side of the river. We saw her going down. We were going to catch up with her but the water was too fast and a that was in spring see so we're looking and looking around there and pretty soon we spotted that dress was caught on oh the limb in the river there you see and that's where we found her. Susan: And that saved her life, or was she drowned? Fred: Oh we didn't save her and we pulled her out and then we put her on the grass there and the way she laid on that grass where her hand and thing was. That grass where she laid down that all dried up— Susan: Strange. Fred: The poor little girl she laid on that grass that grass all they took her away that grass was just like she was like just the way she was laying on it one arm out and we couldn't save her going too fast and we didn't find her maybe about a half an hour later but we saw her dress stuck on the limb there then we got her out that way. Quite a while, I don't know this is a sometime—a you could get going and going with this sometime you're not in order you don't know what to start where to start there are so many things. Susan: Right—it's hard to cover a lifetime in a short while. Fred: Oh, I got more funny things I could tell you. Susan: Well Mr. Ondrako I—I want to thank you for giving us this time for the interview and perhaps— Fred: Well if you want anything else I can think of different things you want me to talk about maybe we'll do it again see like— Susan: Maybe we will when you have a little more time. Fred: This is - all this isn't too much and oh a lot of pranks and stuff we pull off but you can't do that they don't want this on there—(chuckle). We done so many things how we used to used to have wagons buggies you delivered your groceries by wagon—horse and wagon see— Susan: By horse and wagon.  Fred: Yeah—their—everybody had their things behind their store there—they had things where they put their wagons and their horses in there—Halloween we'd take the wagons out—we'd take this wagon from this—this grocery store place put it in and took the other one— Susan: —confuse them. Fred: Turn them around sometimes we let it go down the bank—we were good boys. Oh there’s different things right sometime when you get going it's like when I was talking to you but that's different here and there a part of this and part of that. If you can get it right in rotation everything in rotation— Susan: Right. Fred: That's nice, that's what I was thinking of. Susan: Well thanks for talking to us. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Fred Ondrako Subject The topic of the resource Ondrako, Fred -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Forest City (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Dunn & McCarthy cigar factory; St. Cyril & Methodius Church Description An account of the resource Fred Ondrako talks about his short early childhood in Forest City, PA. He discusses working in a silk mill and a coal mine while living in Pennsylvania. After moving to Binghamton he went to work at the Dunn McCarthy cigar factory and remained there fifty-one years. He also mentions serving many years as an usher for St. Cyril & Methodius Church. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 46 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ondrako, Fred ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-19 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 29:43 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1a93a8bf3d94a88f594aec0084cf81f4.mp3 3c21d429fe7be76e0d9020d2d3ded61c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bower, Marjorie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-04-21 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:09 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55865">Interview with Marjorie Bower</a> Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Subject LCSH Bower, Marjorie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Nurses -- Interviews; World War, 1939-1945; Public health; Chenango Valley, (N.Y.); Chenango Valley Central Schools Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Marjorie Bower Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 21 April, 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood, interviewing Marjorie Bower of Highover Road, Chenango Bridge. The date is the 21st of April, 1978. Marge, you've recently retired from, ah, the nursing profession, and we'd like to know something about your early years of nursing and, ah, on up through until your retirement. Marge: Well, nursing has been—ah—was my choice of professions from the time I was a little girl—ah—having had a mother who was, ah, chronically ill, and I had some knowledge of the medical profession through, ah, the doctor who took care of her, and through taking care of her myself at home. So I was rather anxious to become a nurse and, ah, to do it in a professional manner. So I was able to, ah, get in training at, ah, Binghamton General Hospital. Wanda: Where did you—what was your early schooling, before that? Marge: I graduated from Union-Endicott High School and, ah, I graduated in 1934 and went—ah—I was only 18 then, or 18 shortly after I graduated, so then I went immediately into training. And training was quite different in those days than it is today. We, ah, planned on, ah—our first six months of training was what we called the probationary period, and we were hazed, ah, quite a bit by the upperclassmen, and—ah— Wanda: Do you remember any incidents about that? Marge: Well, we were—I can't remember specific instances except being told to go get a—different kinds of instruments which, of course, didn't exist. And everybody always got a big charge out of the “probies” coming and asking for these strange instruments that were nonexistent. So they had quite a few laughs on us, but of course when—when we got to be juniors and seniors we did likewise to the probies. But, ah, it was a very strenuous training. We had to be up and have our breakfast by six—by six o'clock, and then by six-thirty we had inspection. We wore big black ties and white aprons and starched uniforms, black stockings and black shoes. And if everything wasn't perfect, we were sent back to our rooms to make it perfect—that is, our bow tied right and our apron exactly, ah, pristine white, and if—if it wasn't in that condition we—we were sent back, and we were still expected to be on the ward at five of seven where we had transfer. And during the day, we were supposed to have two hours off during the day. We were very fortunate if we got it, because the head nurse always seemed to—it seemed to us—to delight at finding some extra duty for us to do. That extra duty could be cleaning medical cabinets, cleaning up utility rooms, straightening up, ah, bath trays. I might say that the bath tray—that every patient had a bed bath because patients stayed in bed a long time. In my early period we had, ah—that was before penicillin and before the antibiotic drugs, so nursing care was extremely important for medical patients and for surgical patients too, because we had nothing really to combat, ah, infections. And some of it was sad times because we saw many people die, that today would have been back working in ten days, from pneumonia or from a post-op infection. But we lived through it and—ah— Wanda: What were the hours? Marge: The hours were, ah, seven to seven, with supposedly two hours off during the day. Now we had class time, and if our supervisor on the floor could arrange it, she made sure that our two hours off was our class time. But sometimes she couldn't do that, so we might have an extra hour when we could sit comfortably in class. And in class we—had a—nurse's training had advanced to the point where we had a great deal of Anatomy and Chemistry. We had laboratory work. We had Nursing Ethics and—ah, I'd like to say something about nursing ethics in those days, because that was the day when—ah, if you were on a ward and a doctor came anyplace within your presence, you stood, and although you didn't salute, you were at attention. And you stayed that way until the doctor left the floor, and—ah, I was quite surprised several years later to, ah, be accompanying a physician friend on a floor and have her, ah, looking at a chart and see a student nurse come over and say, "I am sorry, Doctor, but I need this chart," and remove the chart from the doctor's hands. And I—I was astounded because—ah, we—ah, couldn't think of that in our time, if we had to stay on duty an extra hour to do our chart, we would have stayed and not dared to even approach the doctor who was reading a medical record. But, ah, that's a change in the times, and when I think sometimes back to—ah, the way—when we were, felt that we were so subservient, that I, I, I’m glad of the progress, really. Wanda: And that's just been a few short years, really. Marge: That's just been a short—it seems like a few short years—I suppose it's been quite a few, really. But—I graduated from training in, ah, 1937 and went immediately to work as a night nurse at General Hospital. And the hours then were—ah, twelve hours, seven to seven. My pay was—ah—eighty-five dollars a month. If you worked days it was eighty, but because I worked nights it was, it was eighty-five. They gave us a stipend of five dollars for working the night shift. Wanda: And did you live—did you live in the hospital? Marge: We lived in—we lived in the, what we called the dorm, and had a—had a small room. It, it was, it was adequate and—ah, the living conditions were good, but we were still under the strict supervision of, ah, nursing ethics, and in those, you didn't go overtown unless you, ah, wore gloves and a hat—at all times. And I remember distinctly, one time, my mother had bought me a—a quite expensive hat. It was real nice, and I was coming back from overtown across the Washington Street bridge, and the wind came up and my beautiful hat blew into the river. Wanda: Oh no. Marge: I got back to the nursing home and one of the supervisors saw me walk in without a hat on. And this was the time when I was a graduate nurse, but I was still called on the carpet for having been overtown in unladylike apparel, because I lacked a hat. And no explanation that my hat, which had cost so much, had blown into the river, would suffice. So I, ah, of course, was a little bit beyond the area where they could dole out punishment, but I did feel reprimanded and made sure I wore a hat for the next few years. Wanda: With a hat-pin! Marge: Well, I—I never got one with a wide brim after that. Or else took it off going across the bridge. And then my mother became quite ill because—ah—so I quit, ah, nursing at the hospital and took care of her for a year. And after her death I went back into public—into private duty. And I found that quite satisfying, I—through all of this period I really—there is a great deal of satisfaction in nursing because—ah, during my—during my night period of nursing I—I really would like to mention some of that because, ah, I think some of the nurses today perhaps don’t see it because it is gone, become such a technical field, but it was—ah—a real great, ah, feeling to have somebody who had come in in the middle of the night in a bad accident and then have them several days later, ah, tell you that it was your presence and your smile that really helped see them through a difficult period of life when they had no family around for a few hours and things were so rough. And with the roads the way they were, General Hospital was in the area where we saw many tragic accidents coming down Conklin Avenue and Vestal Avenue, and of course they were admitted at General. And the comfort you could give parents and relatives when they came in after somebody was hurt—and I don’t think there’s any other field—professional field—where you really have this satisfaction of really being close to a person in their hour of need and fulfilling that need. And no matter what the other circumstances of nursing were, you did have that special and personal satisfaction, even though the pay was low. And I—I did private duty for about three years and then I decided to go on into an area of specialization, so I went to Syracuse University and, ah, did work in Public Health. And I worked for a year and a half in Public Health in Onondaga County. And that, too, had its special compensations in going into homes and dealing with families as a whole unit, from childhood to the old-aged. Wanda: How did it differ in Syracuse? Were you connected with a hospital up there? Marge: No. I was not connected with a hospital. I was in— Wanda: —an agency? Marge: No. I was in Syracuse University and after I finished my special preparation for Public Health, ah, we had student experience there. I worked in schools for a bit—for school—for student experience as a Student Public Health Nurse and then I worked with, ah—what they called the VNA. That was a Visiting Nurse Association in Syracuse who did home nursing, where in that period of time we went into homes and—ah, gave—ah, maybe gave a bath and taught parents and family to take care of elderly people who were bed-ridden and might go in for shots. And this was during the War and doctors were very scarce, so our services were in great demand. And it was a very busy time for me—both as a student and then when I finished my training I worked for the Onondaga County Nursing Association. Worked out of the Town of Marcellus and the Town of Tully. And the—of course the War was still going on, so that we really were very—we were very busy and yet it was very satisfying to, ah, do this, and of course it was much different. You didn't have the close supervision that you'd had in the hospital. And because of the lack of doctors, nurses were called upon to do a great deal more. We did a lot in pre-natal work, and checking the parents and in instructions. It was—Public Health is mainly a preventative and a teaching program. And it was interesting. Then I came back—my Dad was sick and I had to resign from that position and I spent a year at home with him. And after that—ah, I decided to go in—I had an opportunity to do school nursing for the Broome County—ah, is it County Board of—the Broome County Board of, ah, Services [Broome County Board of Extension Services]. Anyway, they provided school nurses for the schools in Broome County who did not have their own school nurse-teacher. Then, because after I’d worked for them a while, I could see that this required further specialization, I went back to school and took nurse—courses in school nursing—school nurse-teaching. Wanda: At Syracuse? Marge: I took some at Syracuse, but I started with—a Syracuse Extension at Harpur, and I took some at Harpur and through the next—ah—because I stayed in school nurse-teaching from then until my time of retirement three years ago, I, ah, took courses at Cortland and Oneonta and, ah, did get my Bachelor's degree from Oneonta. So that I would be fully qualified for doing school nurse-teaching. Wanda: That must have been quite a new branch of nursing at that time, wasn’t it? Marge: It—it really wasn’t a new branch of nursing. There had been the school nurse-teachers, but just a few, but—ah, during the next few years from 1947 on, school nurse-teaching grew because there was a need for it in the schools. There was a need for people—nurse-teachers who understood and could put the nursing profession really into the teaching situation, where you had children and you could teach Health along with giving the necessary care and preventative medicine. It was—it was a combination of public health and teaching in a—almost a captive, ah, audience group. Wanda: Was this with young—ah—all ages? Marge: This was with all ages. When I started, I was covering Broome County. I was doing school nurse-teaching in the Town of Binghamton, and Chenango Forks, and in Harpursville and in Port Dickinson. I covered all of those areas at, ah, various times. And of course this—this cut your time—it was a lot of travel time. We did immunization clinics in all of the schools. We did hearing tests and vision tests and tried to cover all the children in all of these schools. And although we didn't have the time for teaching then, as we would have liked to, I—I think we fulfilled a great need because many of these areas, I—for instance, areas like the Harpursville area, they only had one doctor in the town and, ah, that was Dr. Torrence and he was a wonderful man to work with. He was a G.P. and did general surgery. And also there—he was Health Officer, so all in all we—ah, between the school doctor and yourself, you did a great deal of medical work and preventative work among the children. Wanda: Now how many other teachers—what was the staff in this—ah—? Marge: Four. There were four of us in this, ah, when we started. Then that was phased out in 1950, ah, 1 [1951], and I went to Harpursville for a year and after going to Harpursville I, ah, had the opportunity to come to Chenango Valley Central Schools—they had just centralized and I spent the rest of my, ah, working days as school nurse-teacher at Chenango Valley. And this saw—it—it’s a great deal of satisfaction. There isn’t any area of nursing, whether it’s specialization or general practice, that there isn’t—ah, satisfaction there. It has its, ah, shortcomings, or had times when—ah, when things don't go right, or, ah, you—you can’t get something corrected that you know needs to be, because of perhaps the financial situation of the parents, they’re not able to have the child’s eyes corrected or surgery that the child may need, but by working through various agencies in the county you usually can help the parents get some help. And, ah, it—ah, I—I think it fills a need and I hate to see the trend now where school nurse-teachers are being phased out, because it is an area of specialization and you can’t put—ah, I saw the need when I went into it, that I needed more education to—to do the job, but at the present time, school nurse-teachers are being phased out and either R.N.s or clerks being hired to take their place and they, ah, put in—children of our county are being—or of our state or maybe across the nation—are being short-changed because of this. They’re not getting counseling to help counsel them in their need and—ah, also the—the mental health counseling that, ah, a school nurse-teacher can give. And I really would like to—put in a plug for that. That—ah, it's the wrong direction to take, which many of our schools are taking. Our school boards and our school administrations are, ah, not being far-sighted enough. And I realize it's because of financial reasons that— Wanda: Is that a fact, really? Marge: This, this, this is a real fact—that so many schools have phased out their school nurse-teaching programs and have hired R.N.s. Legally the R.N. cannot do as much and it is because we are living in a technical age, in an age of specialization. Unless the people who are fulfilling their job have the know-how, the job is not going to be done as it should be done. And in the end it's the student who is, ah, short-changed. And the student is the future parent and the future citizen of our country. And we are not doing enough in the area of, ah, sex education; we’re not doing enough in the areas of drug education in the way that it should be done; we're not doing enough in just plain health education, consumer education. Our students are being bombarded with all of these—ah, aspirin ads and medical ads on television where they’re not getting, really, the health education in school to, ah, combat this trend. And I think—ah, too many people are still saying education should just be the three Rs and feeling, because of the financial reason, that they are going back to that, and that's not preparing our children—our future parents—for the world it is. Because they’re coming up into this world, as it is. Wanda: Do you think—do you feel that parents are bowing out of their responsibilities in that way? In educating their children on these problems that you mention? Marge: Well I—I feel that in—in some ways parents are bowing out, but let’s face it, the parents haven't had the education themselves. What—ah, unless they have some help, how are they going to educate their children? I mean, it, it’s, it's a fast race and it's—it's just as hard for parents to keep up with it as it is for teachers. That's why we need, ah, people who are really specialized in this field. We had—ah, the State has mandated health education teachers in the schools, but, ah, some boards are getting around that by trying to have a school nurse-teacher do a school nurse-teaching job and go in the classroom too, and, ah, some are bowing out of it because, ah, they get one or two parents who, ah, object to the—the health education in the schools, and when I say health education, I mean, we know that venereal disease is, ah, on the uprise in our nation, and we, ah, conveniently may say that it's being covered in our health education classes, but ah, I think if somebody went in and observed some of the health education classes, they would find the teachers are afraid—to teach about it. Be—because of parents—a few parents' repercussions. They really feel that this isn't the thing for the school to do, but where are the boys and girls going to learn about it? Wanda: On the streets, right? Marge: Well, on the streets or after they have it. I—I think that, ah, our State is trying. They have passed laws so that, ah, boys and girls who feel they have—might have a venereal disease can go in and be checked for it, and it will be kept confidential. And that's a—a big plus. That's been done by the legislature. And of course they—the legislation has tried to say that we will have these things covered in school, but ah, our school administrations are, ah, reluctant to take the big step. We had a good case of that when Sue Crouse—when she went into, ah, some of the schools and with some of the Girl Scouts, where parents—ah, well, the Letters to the Editor were pretty rife in the papers for quite a few months. And, ah—this is getting maybe off the subject of nursing, but, ah, it’s something that's a community need. And I think the school nurse-teachers have been some of the first ones to see it. To try to, ah, fight for it and arrange for programs in the school. I don't know, maybe this is one of the reasons we're being phased out! But I think the big reason is financial, because I know that all of the people in education are there for the good of the children or there wouldn't be any education, or most of them. But altogether it has been a very satisfying career, and I—ah, there are many specializations in nursing and, ah, allied fields of medicine, so nursing is taking on a new dimension in—ah, the nurse-practitioner now, in which they are becoming a closer doctor's assistant in that they are going away and taking specialization in—ah, examinations. They are doing this in schools where the school pract—school nurse-practitioner will be examining children under the close supervision of the pediatrician or school physician. They are also taking specialization in working in doctors’ offices and doing initial examinations to—ah, shorten—ah, well, to assist the doctor and to maybe give him a little more time on the—ah, the—ah, critical aspects of the patient care. Wanda: It sounds like a wonderful career for some children that don't want to go into extensive education. Marge: That’s right. And, and it has taken such a turnabout. I mean, it has become so technical now that even in the hospitals where—ah, where in my period of training we practically stood up and saluted and bowed when the doctor came in, the nurse now is more of a co-worker with the doctor. And, ah—her, ah, place in patient care is being given more recognition, as it should be, because she is doing a great deal more and is much better trained to do it. So it's, it’s a great career and it brings you close to people—if you, if you like people and you want to help them, you want to be close to them and do as much for your community as you can, you can’t go into any better profession than nursing. Wanda: Well, you certainly have proven that and I know you’re much admired in this community for what you’ve done. Marge: Well, thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marjorie Bower Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 5 Subject The topic of the resource Bower, Marjorie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Nurses -- Interviews; World War, 1939-1945; Public health; Chenango Valley, (N.Y.); Chenango Valley Central Schools Description An account of the resource Marjorie Bower talks about her motivations for becoming a nurse and her work in the field; nursing ethics, working as a night nurse as a post-grad, public health training in schools and in the public sector, work during WWII, and her experiences as a school nurse-teacher, and her views on the expanding field of nursing. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Bower, Marjorie ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-21 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:09 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dac5f0fada90b2e755d0c73b1c136734.mp3 f8587b4f1077c176261a6b0630deb715 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hallahan, William A. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:13 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55938">Interview with William A. Hallahan</a> Subject LCSH Hallahan, William A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Groton (N.Y.); Baseball players -- Interviews; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball team); World Series (Baseball); General Aniline & Film Corporation, Division of Ozalid; Little League baseball Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: William A. Hallahan Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 25 April 1978 Dan: Ah Bill, would you tell me about your life and working experiences in the community, with emphasis on your baseball career? Bill: Do you want my birth record and so forth? Dan: Just your date and place of birth. Bill: I was born in Binghamton. Dan: Mhmm. Just go right ahead, Bill. Bill: August 4, 1902. Dan: OK. Bill: Which makes me a senior. Dan: A senior citizen, right. Bill: Then I went to, ah, Robinson Street School. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And for baseball, I went to Groton, New York—do you know where that is? Dan: I know where that is, yes, outside of Cortland. Bill: They had a good team. In those da , the plant, the factory supported a ball team and John Hadlik was the manager—he was a former Binghartton player with the New York State League and National League—and I was there for two years. That would be in 1922 or '23, so, ah, 21, 21 and 22. Dan: How old were you at that time? Bill: 18 l think, ah, so ah I did pretty well—pitched pretty well up there, and Syracuse was a Cardinal farm, of course, it was a farm then and also Hadlik was scouting for the Cardinals, so I signed with the Cardinals in 1924 at Bradenton, Florida. I remember getting into the hotel and asking where the ballpark was—clerk told me, “Go up the street a ways and turn to your right, and keep going just a few miles.” So I walked, walked it carrying your baseball suit and so on, and I got there. Ah, Herbie Sanders was our trainer at that time, and I asked him where Mr. Rickey was, you know—”find the fellow with the slouched hat near the batting cage.” I went out and introduced myself to Mr. Rickey. He called one of the catchers, Joe Sutherland—he was a veteran—and he said, "Joe," he said. I just got off the train, you might say, and I was getting ready to go on up to pitch batting practice—so I pitched batting practice. It was unheard of in those days, nobody does it, but it worked out all right, and I never saw so many ballplayers because they had played from several of their farms. The Cardinals at that time had something like 25 farm teams that were players that they owned outright for important games. Dan: But the closest was Syracuse, right? Bill: Syracuse, right. For here, so I, ah, thought, “how are you ever going to get noticed? Who is ever going to see you with all those fellows?” So all you could do was, ah, keep moving. Oh, I'd run, run, run—chase the ball, run back with it and then hit it, and they were noticing, because on the last day of training, had us all in the big ballroom of the hotel talking. Finally he said, "Well, there's one young,” said, “there’s a fella here that hasn't stopped running since he got here.” So I had to stand up and take a bow, so it did show, if you, ah, keep moving, somebody's going to see you. Dan: Right. Bill: And so, ah, I came back north with Syracuse, back up to Syracuse and stayed at Syracuse for a month, I believe, and then I went to Fort Smith, Arkansas. That was another farm, and in Fort Smith, I made all the places I never heard of before: Okmulgee, Muskogee, all those in Oklahoma and, Paron, Topeka, Kansas. I was there about three weeks, and I moved again to Kalamazoo in Michigan—Ontario League, which was beautiful, nice and cool—and, ah, I was there until the season ended, and I was doing pretty well, and I was called back to St. Louis and finished the season with St. Louis. There was quite a bit of traveling that year and we got to see all the large cities in the National League, and traveling on the trains, which was wonderful—beautiful hotels. Funny when I had never been out of Binghamton—never—so kind of a trip, you know. Well the next year, ‘25, we trained in, in Stockton, California, so there was more nice traveling. I come back and was with St. Louis, oh, ‘til June, I think, and then sent to Syracuse again. So after the season was over in Syracuse, why, I returned to St. Louis the following year, 1926. We trained in San Antonio, Texas—Roger Hornsby was the manager. Dan: What part of Texas? Bill: San Antonio. Dan: San Antonio—OK. Bill: And Roger Hornsby was the manager. I was living, I was on the trip around the circuit, as I say, when Hornsby hit .424. That's a terrific batting average. Dan: It sure is. Bill: So, ah, I started in spring—I stayed the full season—and it was the first Pennant and the World Series with the Cardinals won period, and the next year I returned to Syracuse and I finally went back to St. Louis ‘cause in those days the, ah, clubs could do all they wanted to. Could send you out for two years prior—call you back, keep you a year, send you out for two more, and if anybody else wanted you, why, the Cardinals were deep in players. They had the ah, the ah, farm system and it was great, so you just had to wait—so I won 19 games in Syracuse and we finished second, and they didn't have room for me in the Cardinals, so they wanted to go to Houston, Texas, because they promised me a pennant down there. So I didn't care much about going, but the ah, the, ah, General Manager of Houston came up to Binghamton during the winter to, ah, try to coax me into going down there. I thought it would be a bit too warm for me, but finally decided to go and, ah, I had a good year. I won something like 24 games, and we won the pennant and we won the Dixie Series and I, ah, went up to St. Louis that Fall for the World Series—the manager of Houston took me up. So then I talked with Mr. Rickey—I signed for the following years. Dan: For the following years—that was what year now? Bill: That would be 1929. Dan: 1929, and so in other words, ah, they were in the World Series in 1928? Bill: Yeah, but I wasn't with them. Dan: You weren't with them but they won, they won the Series. Bill: No—they got beat four straight. Dan: Oh, they got beat four straight. Bill: I went up to see them— Dan: Oh, I see, OK. Bill: But in 1929, ah, Billy Southworth was the manager and I didn’t get to play too much—I won 4 and lost 1 game. In 1930 Gabby Street came in and then I started out pretty good. We won the pennant that year and played the Athletics. We didn't win, we didn't win the Series, but ah I pitched a shutout—I won one and lost one. Dan: This was in the Series? Bill: 1930. Dan: 1930, against the Athletics. Bill: Mhmm, in 1931, we played the Athletics again—we won the pennant. I won 2 games, won 2 games and saved the 7th in that Series, and then in '32, '33, '34 we won the pennant and played Detroit. I started the second game in Detroit, and it was a good game and I was relieved in the 8th—pitched 8 and two thirds innings, I think. The score was tied and a man on First, and they brought in Bill Walker. He picked the man off 1st base, and the game went 12 innings—we lost 3 to 2—there was no decision. So then I stayed with the Cardinals until '36, and then I was with Cincinnati a year and with ah Philadelphia a year, and those were ah, years you like to forget, you know. In the last years, everything was downhill, but ah, ah then when I came back home, I was worked with the Atlantic baseball school—they used to have, Atlantic Oil used to have a baseball school they run the summer. Whitey Anderson was the head of the baseball school. Dan: That's here? Bill: Mhmm, in Binghamton, and that would be in 1940 and in 1941—the War started in December 1941. Dan: Right. Bill: I was in the Army in August 1942 up at Fort Niagara. They had a good ball team up there too—I didn't play—I coached a little. We played, ah, pretty good teams, and ah, I stayed up there ’til—see, March the following year in '43, I think, and we had, ah, we were over 38, you see, you get out of service—they released us. Dan: I see. Bill: So that's how I got out. Dan: So in other words you just went up to Fort Niagara and you stayed there and coached baseball? Bill: I worked in the records and assignment. Dan: Records and assignment—but you, ah, did coach some teams up there? Bill: Yeah. Dan: And then you were discharged in '43. Bill: In '43 of March, went to Ozalid, and I was with Ozalid for 20 years. Dan: Until ‘63. Bill: ’Til ‘63. Dan: Uh huh, and you retired from Ozalid, and in what capacity did you work for Ozalid? Bill: I was a foreman. Dan: A foreman—in what department, Bill? Bill: I was, ah, warehousing, receiving, receiving warehousing and supply clerk. Dan: Mhmm. Bill: And so that one time it was on Clinton Street—ah, that big warehouse that Ansco has now. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill; We had that when it was first built. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: So that about takes care of it. Dan: Now getting back to your baseball career—at the height of your career, which would be with the St. Louis Cardinals when you pitched in the, ah, let’s see, the World Series against the Athletics that you won—you won 2 pennants in the 2 World Series. Bill: We won 3 World Series out of—we was in 4 World Series—we won 3. Dan: Yeah, pardon me just a minute Bill. (Wife turns on TV too loud). OK. Bill: Won 2 out of 4. Dan: Won 2 out of 4? Bill: 3 out of 4. Dan: 3 out of 4, OK. Now at the height of your season, what was your salary per year, Bill? Do you mind telling me? Bill: No. I think it was around 7 or 6—I got more than most of the fellas—it was around $7,000. Dan: $7,000—quite a difference from what they get today. Bill: I mean, that was when I got first started. I ended up getting $13,500. Dan: $13,500 at the height of your career—that would be pitching with the Cardinals. Bill: Regular pitching. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Yeah, regular pitching. Dan: What was the best year you had in the, ah— Bill: '31, when I won 19 and lost 9, I think, then won 2 games in the World Series, saved the 7th and deciding game—led the League in strikeouts. In 1930, I played, I led that both years, I led the League in strikeouts. Dan: You led the league in strikeouts? Ball: I won in walks too, probably. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Branch Rickey used to say that if you can strike out more than you walk, why, you have some advantage. Dan: How did you get the nickname "Wild Bill"? Bill: (Gesturing) Dan: That's it—by walking. Bill: By in and low, which you call it—control—in the early days, but ah, ah, a power pitcher always has a little more trouble with control than a— Dan: Uh huh—now, did you ever pitch against the Yankees? Bill: Oh, in spring training, yes. Dan: Spring training, but not in the regular season. Bill: No, because they're— Dan: Same league. Bill: They're in a different league. Dan: Different league—yeah. Bill: I pitched against some—quite a few of the Yankees, in fact. I started the first All-Star game in 1933—Babe Ruth hit a home run. Dan: Off of you? Bill: Yeah, so that's one reason. Dan: Who were some of the other members of your team that, ah, that ah won the Series? Bill: Oh, ah, in the thirties, '30, '31, Jim Dowling, Frankie Frisch, Pepper Martin, ah, Chick Hafey and Charlie Delbert and Jess Haines, Burley Grimes, and in ‘34 it was the Dean brothers, Paul and Dizzy Dean, Pepper Martin, Joe Medwick, Vern Lasabe—Frankie Frisch was the manager, Leo Durocher was shortstop, Rip Collins, Jim Collins was first base. Dan: This is on the— Bill: The ‘34 team. Dan: ‘34 team. Bill: '34 team. Dan: The Cardinals. Bill: Yeah, we beat Detroit then. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Mickey Cochron caught and managed Detroit, but ah, I roomed with Jim Bottemly and Joe Medwick. Bill Christy and an awful lot of those fellas who were on those both teams are in the Hall of Fame. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Yeah—quite a few of them. Dan: Have you ever been considered for the Hall of Fame? Bill: Oh, gee, they're standing in line waiting. Dan: Standing in line. Bill: They's so many of them. Dan: Yeah—any highlights stand out in your mind at all, as far as your baseball career? Bill: Well of course the, ah, World Series games, and in 1930 I pitched a game in Brooklyn, we went, we went into Brooklyn 1/2 game out of first place for a 3 game series, and I pitched against Dazzy Vance, who was quite a pitcher. Dan: Yeah. Bill: So I pitched the first game and won—it went 10 innings and I beat him 1 to 0, and they said that was the game that won the pennant for us, because we won the next two games against Philadelphia, and we came back to St. Louis and the season was over at St. Louis, so ah that was quite a one that I remember, you know, especially against a pitcher like Vance—he was one of the real power pitchers in my days. Dan: Yeah, uh huh—have you received any awards at all, Bill? Bill: Oh nothing for, ah— Dan: Any honors or anything like that? Bill: Nothing, only what all the other fellas would get for being on the team—you got a World Series ring. [Shows it to Dan on finger] Dan: Is that your World Series Ring? Bill: That's a 1934 World Series Ring. Dan: Uh huh—I've never seen one. Don't take it off, Bill—leave it on—don't take it off. Bill: You can see a little better, and when we were out, ah, in— Dan: You must have received, you must have received 3 of these. Bill: Yeah—we got this. [Shows Dan his watch]. Dan: This is a wristwatch. Bill: Yeah, in '76 we went to St. Louis for a reunion of the team that won the first pennant and World Series in St. Louis history. Dan: Is that right? Bill: And, ah, each got Longines Wittnauer from that reunion, and then I have a picture upstairs, a painting, from a photograph I got in '73—a reunion of the fellas in the first All-Star game. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And, ah, you get a lot of, quite a few. Dan: The fact you got three World Series rings—that's really something. Bill: Well it is, because it has to have some measure of luck, you know, to be on the teams that are—I know a lot of the fellas that were great players that didn't even play on one team, not on our team. That's the way I happened to, ah, and at that time all the players would come up through the farm system. Today they, they come free agents and so on—we didn't have any of that. Dan: Yeah—what do you think about the salaries that they're getting today, Bill? Bill: Well I think— Dan: Do you think they're worth it? Bill: Well of course nothing is, ah. Dan: Everything is inflation, you know, today. Bill: It isn't what you're worth actually, it's, ah, if they can pay them, if they can make enough money. Dan: In other words a drawing card, right? Bill: If they can hit, why, they must deserve it—they couldn't get it, that's true. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Things are different today, ah, in everything, is different. Dan: ‘Course you've got to consider the fact that when, ah, when the height of your career there wasn't any television. Bill: No. Dan: Which is, ah, a big item. Bill: Oh, that’s made the—ah, television and, ah, night games. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: They didn't have that—why I played most of my, ah, ah, during the Depression. Dan: Right, right. Bill: And every city you'd see, there'd be people hadn't seen anything ’til they see the soup lines. Those people were really hungry. Dan: Uh huh. Now when you, ah, got out of service you went right to Ozalid—you worked there for 20 years and you're getting a pension from them, of course. Did you do any coaching at all in the 20 years that you worked? Bill: No, the only thing I coached was the Little League when they first had the Little League team—League in Johnson City. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And, ah, they asked me if I’d take over, and ah, we, ah, spent a lot of time with them because the kids wanted to play. We played twice a week, ah, but they wanted to have another game on Saturday, and so we used to play and, ah, we won the pennant—went as far as Liverpool, we played some of the finals—the semifinals in Liverpool. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: We got beat in Liverpool 2 to 1, but we had a good time. Dan: You mentioned when Branch Rickey was watching you in batting practice, was that in Syracuse or was that out in St. Louis? Bill: No, that was in Bradenton. Dan: Bradenton. Bill: Florida, spring training. Dan: Oh, in spring training. Bill: Spring training. Dan: I see, I see. Bill: But, ah, today everything is different of course. Dan: Oh, sure. Bill: In those days you'd know who, ah, one of the stars were, but today you wouldn't know—they all come out together at once—you wouldn't know who's the star and who's the rookie. The rookie is liable to have a good big a car as the stars—maybe he got a bonus for signing or something like that, and ah, everything was different—even the ballparks are all tremendous today. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Ah, the ballparks you knew, the ballpark in Philadelphia in the National League was so small they called it "Baker Bowl.” It was, ah, very small—the seating capacity was nothing. The Shibe park was a much better park, that was in the American League park. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But today everything—in St. Louis is a big beautiful locker room, wall to wall carpeting all on it. Dan: Oh, sure. Bill: Beautiful showers. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And the trainer has a room with all of his equipment. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And the equipment manager, the only fellow I know on the team, Butch Yatheman—and he was a bat boy when I was there—now he is the equipment manager, so he's been there 50 years and, ah, all that, ah, ah, of course the traveling is different, everything is by plane today. Dan: Right, right. Of course they play, probably, ah, more games per season too, now? Bill: 160, 160—they used to play 154. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: 160 or 62. Ah, I don't think there's as much togetherness now as there were at that time, ‘cause we were together on on the train and fellas had time to talk, and you'd talk baseball even in the lobbies of the hotel in the evening, it was great for down in and hear the veterans talk, you know. Dan: Sure, sure. Bill: I don't know how they do that as much now, because, why, they go from St. Louis to Chicago in a couple of hours and, you know, didn't have much time to speak—you're just in the ballpark and when you're in the clubhouse. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But, ah, sometimes we'd go from St. Louis, ah, at least once a year to Boston—Reds back too. Dan: Mhmm. There was so much publicity over Maris breaking, ah, Ruth's homerun record that one year, but he played in more games than Ruth did. Bill: Oh yes, they all did so, do— Dan: Actually it isn't, it isn't a fair comparison, is it? Bill: Well, ah, you shouldn't—it wouldn't be, because and then you'd have to look at how many walks did each get—intentional walks? Dan: Yeah. Bill: You can't hit if you're walked—that's for sure, and the same with Hank Aaron. I mean they keep in more games. Dan: Yes, yes. Bill: But if you ever checked the number of times they were walked intentionally—but that's the difference. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: In my, my—those fellows deserve all the credit, you know, they— Dan: Oh sure. Bill: —A lot of credit, but I always thought, ah, ah, the home run hitter—I will always remember—Babe Ruth. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I mean he looked so much the part. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: He looked, ah, ah, when he was at bat—everything stopped—came to a standstill, you know. Everybody wanted to see him swing, but he did swing because he was one that say, he looked good striking out. Dan: Yeah. (Laughter). Bill: You know, aren't many that said looked that good. Dan: Right, right. Bill: That's quite a compliment when they say you look good striking out, and oh, when we came north we always played exhibition games—now they go direct from the, ah— Dan: Spring training. Bill: Spring training, right, back, ah, their home base. Dan: Right. Bill: But we used to play all over the south—if we ever come in, ah, for instance, some of our fellows would hit a long ball. Gee, they say some native here said, “Oh, the Yankees were in here last week and he hit one, he hit one that far, you know. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Way over there, 500 feet. Dan: What was your best pitch, ah, Bill? Bill: I had a fastball and a curve. Dan: Fastball and curve, uh huh. Bill: Yeah, and I wasn't quite as tall, as big as some of those fellows, but we had a fellow on the team—Paul Derringer, he was 6’3" or 4". Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But I could throw as hard, so you make by. Dan: You lack one thing—you make up on another. Bill: Yeah, I could be, ah, throw hard and ah, have a terrific curve. Dan: Uh huh—well you've got a lot of nice memories, Bill. Bill: Oh the nice part about it, be able to look back and— Dan: Reminisce. Bill: When we, ah, like in ‘76 we went to St. Louis, there was 7 then out of the 27—there'd be 27 on the team. Dan: Only 7 left out of 27? Bill: Right. Dan: Is that right? Bill: Out of the first Pennant winning team—7. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: So they, they fade away. Dan: You look good, though, Bill. Did you just get back from Florida? Bill: That’s right—I had a little tan. Dan: Good. Bill: But, ah, we missed a good winter here, I guess. Dan: (Laughter) You picked a dandy. Bill: Well, it was bad all over the country. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: It was, it was the wind every day and a chill. Dan: Right, right. Bill: But the sun was warm. Dan: Uh huh—now you belong to St. Patrick's Church, Bill. Bill: Yes. Dan: Uh huh, but do you belong to any clubs, any fraternal organizations or anything like that? Bill: Let’s see, I belong to the Elks, Knights of Columbus 4th Degree, ah, Veterans, Clinton Street—the 1st Ward Legion. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Let’s see what else—the, ah, Baseball Players’ Association. I guess that's it. Dan: That's it—now do you have a reunion every year? Bill: Oh no—just for certain special things. Dan: Just, just, yeah—‘course, just being 7 of you left, why— Bill: Oh, that's first time we ever got together. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: But ah, well, I've been out to Houston a couple of times—in New York too—the Stadium, and I’ve been out to St. Louis 6 or 7 times. Dan: Is that right, yeah? Bill: Because they'd have a reunion for all the different teams— Dan: Right. Bill: —that won a pennant. It's all been great. Dan: Yeah—did you ever pitch at any old timers’ games down in Yankee Stadium? They usually have an old timers. Bill: That's when I was out there, it was 1962 or 3. Dan: 1962 or 3. Bill: Yeah, but I didn't care about going out to pitch, because some of the fellows were coaching and so on, and they were in better shape than some of the older players. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Some of the players would get, ah, what's the use if you didn't get injured during your playing days? Why do it when you're a senior? Dan: Right, right—you never had any serious injuries, did you, playing, Bill? Bill: No, I was fortunate. Dan: Oh, you were lucky. Bill: Yeah, yeah, I was able to go through all that without. Dan: Right. Bill: And, ah, we don't get a pension—it didn't start until ‘45. Dan: No pension plan? Bill: Now they get a pension in 5 years. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I played about 11 years. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I have a lifetime pass. Dan: Uh huh. Bill : A silver lifetime pass—I've never used it. I hang on to it. I'd go, ah, but I don't know any of the players now. Dan: No, no, you're going back quite a few years. Bill: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Bill: If I lived a lot closer I'd go, but I'd drive down for overnight or something like that just for— Dan: Well, is there anything else you'd like to tell me, Bill, or anything you can think of? Bill: No, before I got hit with a respiratory ailment in ‘69. Before that I used to play once in a while with Bishop Harrison when he was Monsignor. Dan: When he was known as McGee. (Laughter). Bill: Oh, I saw him down to the Broome Open last year, you know, when he was playing with Bob Hope and, ah, what's his name? The Merry Mex, ah, Lee Trevino. Dan: Lee Trevino, yeah. Bill: And ah, I followed him around for awhile—they had some fun—you know, they're all, and ah— Dan: You mentioned you played with Father Harrison now. Bill: Playing golf, yeah. Dan: Oh, playing golf, yeah. You know he used to be Assistant Pastor—no, was it? Yeah, he used to be over at St. Mary's and he used to play with Father O'Brien, and it came out in the paper, of course it wouldn't be Father Harrison but he'd be playing under the name of McGee. Bill: Yeah, but he taught me, he said he played out to Notre Dame—he was on the ball team out there, but he had a chance to go and really try in Minor League if he had a chance to go up, but he was going to do something else, but he used to be around the ballpark up there when I was playing up in Syracuse—old Star park. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I used to live up on Tipperary Hill when I was in Syracuse. Dan: Tipperary Hill. Bill: Yeah. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Up on, I think it was Hamilton Street—sometimes I forget, rather I stayed with people named Hamilton—it sounds like it was a street. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Up on Tipperary Hill. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: The green was always on top. Dan: What was this farm team, this St. Louis farm team called up at Syracuse? Bill: Stars. Dan: Stars. Bill: St. Louis Stars—the Syracuse Stars. Dan: Syracuse Stars, yeah. Bill: Shanks Shaughnessey was the manager one year up there and then Barney Shotten was the manager in '27 and he—we had quite a good team. He went to Philadelphia after and managed for a few years—he managed Brooklyn. Dan: Now who was managing when you won the series—those 3 years? Bill: Oh, Hornsby was managing them in ‘26. Dan: That was the farm league. Bill: No. Dan: Wasn't that the farm league—when you were down in Texas? Bill: No, oh, that was Snyder, Frank Snyder was managing the Houston team. Dan: I see. Bill: In St. Louis then, in ‘26, Hornsby was the manager. Dan: I see. Bill: And in ’30 Gabby Street, and in ’31 Gabby Street, and in ’34 Frankie Frisch. Dan: Frankie Frisch, uh huh. Bill: And he was killed a few years ago, coming north when a train came. Dan: Yes, yes, I read about that. Bill: Car accident—he was quite a ball player, he was. Dan: Yeah. Bill: God, he was a good one. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And Medwick, 2 years ago I think he died. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Had a heart attack, and he was working with the Cardinals—he was the batting instructor. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Well I think I've covered pretty well, haven't I, ah? Dan: Oh that's fine, Bill. I'll, if you like, I'll play it back for you. Bill: OK. Dan: Now Bill, you mentioned that you, ah, played in the 1st All Star game in 1933. Bill: Right. Dan: Now could you name the members of the team? Bill: No, I don't think so, I— Dan: The National League team. Bill: Yeah, I may be able to name most of those fellows, but ah, ah, to go through to name the American League, I don't. Dan: No, just your own team, your National League All-Stars. You were pitching, right? Bill: Yeah, and Gabby Street was catcher—I mean this is the starting, because they kept entering. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Gabby Street catching, Bill Terry was playing first, Frankie Frisch second—now if I can get the shortstop, ah, skip that for a minute. Pie Traynor was playing third, ah, Chick Hafey, Paul Waner, Mel Ott I think. Dan: Mel Ott. Bill: Mhmm, I know they played sometime during the game. Dan: Yeah, right, but that was the first World Series. Bill: All-Stars. Dan: All-Stars, rather, first All-Star game. OK, well thank you very much, Bill. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with William A. Hallahan Subject The topic of the resource Hallahan, William A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Groton (N.Y.); Baseball players -- Interviews; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball team); World Series (Baseball); General Aniline & Film Corporation, Division of Ozalid; Little League baseball Description An account of the resource William A. Hallahan talks about his upbringing in Binghamton and the start of his baseball career in Groton, NY at the age of 18. He discusses playing for the<a href="http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=stl"> St. Louis Cardinals </a>and winning 3/4 of the World Series games in which he pitched. He also notes his time as the starting pitcher for the National League in the first All Star game in 1933. He details friendships with some of the big names in baseball of the time, including Babe Ruth. He later worked for Ozalid as a foreman and also as a coach for Little League baseball. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 30 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hallahan, William A. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:13 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5a7ca79f6c28232519f43ea9ff3a60ea.mp3 2222f151915507ddbafbde6a29b56bcd https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fbba950c6bb0ca2b022b79349df76a43.mp3 b2654f72c2f3b97491557a5b0dc4fcb6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fenson, Mary Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-04-25 ; 1978-06-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55907">Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck)</a> Subject LCSH Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Interview with: Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Dates of Interviews: 25 April 1978 and 20 June 1978 [Interview #1: 25 April 1978] Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Mrs. Simon Fenson, 2121 Farm to Market Road, RD#2, Johnson City, NY, on Apr. 25, 1978. Mrs. Fenson, will you start telling me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting with your date and place of birth? OK—start. Mary: What shall I say? Nettie: Start—where you came from. Mary: I come from Austria. I was 16 years old. I come to this country 1906—September 28. My father was here. They take me to factory, then I got a job up there—then I work in a cotton mill. Nettie: When you came from Austria—where did you go first? What city or town did you go first? Mary: Oh, I come on the town called Crampton, but now they don't call that Crampton—they call it Warwick—but before, they call it Crampton, Rhode Island. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: I go to factory, I make—I work in machine, made thread—they call it spinning. Nettie: Do you remember how did the job—the procedure of the job? Mary: My father go and ask the boss, and they don't wanna take me in because I was still very young. I had to wait two months before I was the age of 16, then they took me in the factory to work. I worked on the machine, where they made thread—thread—that's all. Nettie: How did you make this thread? Mary: The machine did the work—the machine did the work— Nettie: Did you have to feed it? Mary: You have to take one thread and another thread and feed it into the machine—and out of the two twined together makes the one strand of thread. This is called a spinning machine. Nettie: After you left Rhode Island, did you come here? Mary: No, jobs were scarce, pretty strict, my husband had a friend in Taunton, Mass. He went there for a visit and they suggested he come here. There is work here. So, we went there—true, he got a job—and I got a job—all was pretty good. Nettie: Where was this? In Endicott? Mary: No, no, no—Taunton, Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Nettie: What did you do in Massachusetts? The same thing? Mary: Same thing, same thing—just a different company—same thing, same job on the machine. Let's see—and then we stayed there a long time. My husband got a job—was not the greatest job—just holding on—later on he got a job in the silk factory, he was an inspector looking over silk cloth and I was still working. Later, I had an uncle living in Binghamton. My uncle had written me a letter and told me to come to Binghamton—as “Here, we have the EJ factories, lots of people are working here and getting overtime pay. Come here.” We quit our job and came to Binghamton.  Nettie: What did you do? Did you work for EJ, too? Mary: No, I couldn't work - just my husband worked. I was looking for a job but couldn't find one—because—don't need it. I work in Dunn McCarthy five weeks. Nettie: Where? Mary: Dunn McCarthy. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: Oh—when they were wearing shoes with the buckle on the side—I sewed the tongues onto the back. I worked 5 weeks but could not work any longer as our daughter was—let's see, about 6 years old and was about to enter school. We did not find living quarters so my husband bought a house. I had to stay at home—I was at home. We lived in this house—I cannot how long—I guess, from ’17 up to 1920. Then later, we traded the house for a farm. Nettie: Where's the farm located? Mary: Right over here. Nettie: What's this street? Mary: Oh—just next door! Nettie: What is your address? Mary: R.D. #2, Johnson City! Nettie: OK. Mary: Yeah, from 1920 we came on this farm, we were poor—hard life—dilapidated farm—ah little by little—my husband was working in the factory—there there wasn't much work so he had to quit—decided we would farm—he didn't know anything about farming and I didn't understand farming, but we were young so we figured we would get along. Nettie: You would learn. Mary: Yeah. I was in town occasionally and saw every once in a while, a farmer would come into town with his horse and wagon and bring in the different things to sell. I was thinking, I, too, will try—take the horse and wagon downtown and sell something, also. We owned three cows—so, I made cheese, butter and took it with me. Many customers bought these from me. One time, ah—people bought from me but few paid for it. Times were bad—we were poor—no money coming in from anywhere. Once as I was out delivering butter, cheese—I do not know the name of the street at this time—I was about to deliver some butter to a customer—to one of the Polish ladies—when this man, an insurance man named Bay—I didn't know his first name but last name was Bay, a John Hancock Insurance man—stopped me and asked, “Housewife, how is business?" (Laughing.) “Business is good—people are buying but nobody is paying anything.” Nettie: Free. Mary: Yes, they buy my cheese and butter but make—tell me will pay next week as now I have the electrical bill, all kind of excuses not to pay me. He told me, "Stish, why do you go and knock on doors to sell your wares? Why don't you go to the Johnson City Public Market?" Bay, I have never heard of that market—never had. He said, "Listen, I'll make a map for you." So he proceeded to take out his little book and on a piece of paper he drew a map with directions to get to the market. He said at the market people come to you, buy your wares and pay cash. I thanked him so next week not to go to my house customers, as I'll not receive any money, anyway. That night, I was telling my husband—the next week I will not go to my cheese and butter customers as Mr. Bay told me to go to the market—Johnson City Public Market. My husband replied, "Oh, you are foolish to listen to people—you got good customers—take care of them." I said, "What good are they? I never get paid for my labor—that's the business!” (Laughing.) Also, it just happened I was so fortunate to have a large crop of peas, such beautiful peas, that I picked two bushels, took along cheese, butter, etc., and was on my way to the market with my horse and wagon. I had no idea where I was going. I looked over the directions on Mr. Bay's map—up to Broad Street, Johnson City, straight through the tracks until I hit Main Street, Johnson City—there, directions continue—to ask someone for further directions to Johnson City Public Market. I rode, sure, as he instructed, not to Broad Street but Main Street—there I came upon a green light and stopped, not knowing which way to turn. A policeman across the road hollered for me to go on. I waved "No"—I really could not speak much of English. He came up to me and asked me, "What is the trouble? Why don't you go on?" I told him I didn't know where to go. He asked again, "Where are you going?" I said, "Johnson City Market." He then proceeded to tell me to go straight to the light—turn right—go a quarter block and then you will see the market. I did as he told me—arrived there—knowing it was the market when I saw the horses and wagons, as at that time we had no trucks or cars. I arrived at the front—seeing all the people—was a bit flustered—not knowing where to park my horse and wagon—as it was, here came Mr. Patterson, manager of market—he said, "Welcome, welcome new producer!" I didn't know what to tell him. He said, "Turn the horse around this way."  I said, "I can't, I don't know how." He said, "All right, you sit and I'll turn the horse around." I got down and waited. After taking care of the horse, he glanced at my wares and said, "Good! Good! Good!" Again, he asked, "Do you know how to sell?"  I said, "No." (Laughing.) He was very obliging—says, "Good.” He took some tags from his pocket—saw my peas and came around with a quart basket—says, "This basket is 18¢ a basket or 2/35¢.” All right, when I started selling—by Gosh! I couldn't believe the people at my stall—buying my wares—I couldn't keep up with all the customers—I didn't have to have bags as the people paid for my peas and told me to dump my peas into a basket they carried on their arm. I sold everything. The manager approached me and said, "Come again next week." "Good," I said, "I'll be back." I came back every week—brought anything I had to sell, and everything went and I received cash! I looked around and saw what people were selling to give me ideas. I just couldn't get over it—anything I brought in, it was sold for cash—nothing trust! I raised vegetables—vegetables, very little profit—yeah—too much work and not much good of it. I had vegetables like carrots, onions, beets, etc., on a bench—but being outdoors, they wilted in the sun. One summer day, a lady of 65 or more, who had a stall nearby came to chat with me. As we were talking, she pointed to my vegetables and said, "Lady, you had beautiful vegetables there but now they are wilted—people will not buy wilted vegetables.”  I answered, "What should I do?" "Forget the vegetables," she advised, "why don't you raise flowers?"  I replied, "Flowers! Who needs flowers?" I didn't believe her—she continued telling me that anyone who owned a home and had a small plot of land in back, they always grew vegetables for their own use, but flowers, they have no room to plant. If you sell flowers you will have a good business. I don't know how to go about this new venture. The lady proceeded to tell me that as soon as the snow melts in the Spring and the ground is not too wet—plant some sweet peas and they will grow nicely. I did just that. I wanted to buy flower seeds, my husband laughed and said, "Foolish lady, who is going to eat your flowers?"  I told him, “I'll try it.” (Laughing.) I spent one dollar on flower seeds. After a short time, I told my friend, “My sweet peas are growing so beautifully, such beautiful flowers, can't get over that. What shall I do with them? I don't know.” I had, at no time see arrangements of flowers. She replied, "What? Get scissors—cut them and make bouquets." I thought to myself—how do you make bouquets? The next time I went to the market, I cut some flowers, brought them in to the lady friend and again, asked her to show me how to make bouquets. She was very obliging—showed me the how to, and later said, “Use your head, too,” because if you make a beautiful bouquet you will have many sales, but if you just bunch them they will not be appealing and you will not have a sale. I tried the best I could—so, I continued to plant sweet peas—first a quarter pound, later one pound of seeds—I had flowers—but it was a job—especially the cutting and making bouquets. Now, I started to plant other flowers, even planted the flowers my customers requested. I tried. I noticed a seed catalog—I ordered flower seeds and had such a beautiful assortment of flowers. My customers were pleased—I had asters, zinnias, gladiolas, they didn't like the scent of marigolds. The glads—I had so many—but I sure found success with my flower sales. Many people did not believe me that I could earn more money at the market than the lady who works in a factory. I found if you have the will, strength, you can do very well. Nettie: Do you have to pay for your booth? Mary: Oh yes, we had a nice place now, the market was under cover—beautiful, lot of space, clean—we paid $12 a week but it was worth every cent—before that, we had a open market, that was free, then, they paid us $2.00 to come and sell—always reminded us to come back. As I said, after a while, George F. Johnson built a new market—we liked that very much as summer and winter it was a pleasure to be there. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, how did they sell meat? Did they come in with chickens, pigs? Mary: We sold many chickens—we never had less than 100-125 chickens sold on Saturday. We killed and defeathered chickens at home and at the market so dressed them as to customer's choice, whole—cut up—free service. Nettie: How much were chickens at that time? Mary: They were 35 cents—nice young fryers (4-5 pounds) at 48 cents a pound. Nettie: How was the meat business? Mary: I don't know—some brought in half a cow—cut into pieces—oh, yes, there was a Mr. Baxter, he had all kinds of meats—big place with about four people working there—all people lined up to buy—all sold by noon. Another man, Truman, sold lamb and calf. Nettie: Did you know to make change? Did you understand how to do that? Mary: Yes, Mr. Patterson showed me how—asked me where I would put the money and I told him in my pocketbook. He gave me a basket (quart), put a newspaper around—he said, "Don't put your money in pocketbook—put your money right here, because when people come up to you have chance to give change." He show me how, then I did like he showed me. He was a very nice man, nice person—he helped me—everything—he said, "When people buy from you, you have to be very nice to them. Always say, ‘Thank you.’” (Laughing.) He teach me—I don't nothing about anybody. (Laughing.) He said, "When anybody come to you—they buy from you—be very pleased—when you give change back—say, ‘Thank you—come again!’” That's what I did. But it was a nice place. Nettie: Any more interesting stories about the market? Mary: Lots of people come up—they find out market—little by little come up, lots of them. These days they was no cars—1921—they was no cars, everybody come up with team or one horse. Nettie: How did you get down in the winter? By sleigh? Mary: No, I just go with the market wagon—that's all—and wintertime, I go once a week. Nettie: Did you go, yourself or with your husband? Mary: No, he didn't want to go—I went myself. Nettie: You're the businesswoman. Mary: I did, sure! That's the first thing—you know. I say to my man, I say, the next week I go to the market because, I hear Mr. Bay, told me market people pay cash. He said, "Don't fool yourself, you got steady customers.” Yeah—those steady customers take everything but they got—nobody pay me a nickel. Well, I went like Mr. Bay told me, my man was so mad he no want to put—he no want to hook the horse to wagon. He put harness in—horse was a big one—I was short—I can't put harness—he put harness in—he don't want to hook horse to wagon because he said I should not leave my customers—but after that he don't say nothing—little by little— Nettie: He saw you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Yes, he find out I don't do nothing wrong. I know this Bay, he don't want me to go—I sell my peas—and for what I got them—I got the cash—I got $16—see, $16 I never see in years. I know my man, he was worrying—he got horses—they need—horses, when you go on field work—horses need oats—we had no money to buy oats. When I got this money I go home—farmer store and I stop and I ask the farmer store's man, I say, "Mister, I got one horse but want to buy a little grain for horses, anything I needed—can that not be too heavy for horse to go?" He said, "No." (Laughing). “How much do you want?" I say I want it, at least two bags—that's 200 horse feed. He said, "That's not heavy—at all—he can take a lots more." Then I take it—two bag horse feed, one bag cow feed, and I got myself pork loin, I like that, 12 cents a pound—he sliced for me, this storekeeper, then I pay everything cash and I come home. I got $4 cash—beautiful! Beautiful! When I got home, my man he said, "What you got in those wagon?"  I said, "Why don't you look over." He see, boy, he grabbed the bag—he said have to go on field—the horses don't have nothing to eat. Then afterwards, he don't say nothing to me. You wanna go—go—you wanna—go— Another thing, at old market there was a man from Owego, who sold all dressed chickens. I decided, I wanted to sell chickens, too. The next week I took with me a crate of live chickens—sixteen chickens in a crate. At the market, people went by, looked, said, "Nice chickens. Nice chickens," but were not buying my chickens—so, one of the following days, it was rainy weather and my husband could not work in the fields, told me he was going with me to the market, as company. He helped me bring out my wares plus the crate of live chickens. I am thinking all the time, I have such beautiful chickens, how can I make that chicken dead? (Laughing.) Nobody is buying my chickens. I am still thinking, thinking, and all of sudden, I got an idea. I looked around and saw my man talking, smoking, smoking—with a couple men. I took a market basket—they don't have that kind these days—and it, I put two roosters and a hen. I tied, covered the chickens so my husband would not see them. As I was leaving, I told my husband to take care of my business, and I'll be back soon. He told me to go—but asked "Where are you going?"  I told him I'm going to go on Main Street, but I didn't go on Main Street—I went to Mrs. Philipso. I arrived at Mrs. Philipso's and called, "Hey kuma, put a pot of water on stove." She then replied, "Do you want to take a bath?" (Laughing.) “No, just get a pot of water ready—I have some chickens here I want defeathered.”  She asked, "Who will kill the chickens?"  I replied, "I don't know," but we finally agreed that since both of us cannot do it, we asked the neighbor. She was obliging—"Get me the knife—I'll kill them." Finally the chickens were defeathered and I returned—to the market. I saw my husband as I left him talking with the men—I asked, "Did you sell anything?"  He replied, “No, no one stopped by." Now, I put my dressed chickens on the bench—still out in the open market. Before long, a Slovak couple come by and stopped to look at the chickens and asked if they were fresh—I said, "They are shaking—are warm." The lady answered, "My God, they are warm.” Man answered, "Oh, the sun warmed them." (Laughing.) I convinced them my chickens were fresh, so they bought the largest rooster for baking. I was beginning to worry if we’ll sell all the chickens, but as it was, another couple came along, another person came along, so within thirty minutes my dressed chickens were sold. I figured if they could sell dressed chickens inside the market I could sell outside, on the bench. Before long, the man from Owego—who had the dressed chickens—reported her to the manager—saying, “That lady is taking my business away—get rid of her.” In all fairness, Mr. Patterson replied, "Harry, you take care of yourself and she will take care of herself.” As time went by, my chicken business grew from twenty to thirty chickens every Saturday, also, kept growing to 120-125 chickens—at holiday time I included ducks, geese—at times we had to buy chickens to keep up. Finally, I had such a business, my husband wanted a picking machine but it cost $360—he figured if someone has one I'll have one—so with pieces of wood, metal, he made one of his own which worked beautifully. The chicken business was a lot of work and a lot of fun—so that was our life going to end—35 years at the market—from beginning to the last. Nettie: What was the year of the closing of the market? Mary: 1953. We sold our farm that year, as raising vegetables, chickens, glads were not necessary if I did not have a market to sell them at. When I sold glads—that alone was good money, but instead of selling each flower I made bouquets for $1.00—medium size 50 cents—people bought for cemeteries. I had beautiful flowers that I kept fresh in pails of water—people were standing in line to buy them. My flowers were sold every time but if had a few left, I gave it to people for their church. They were a good profit for me—I remember—year 1939—it was a fantastic year—sold so many chickens—assorted flowers—glads—gladiola sales alone, I made $135—was pretty good. I always kept track of my sales—always sold everything. Nettie: I must say—you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Oh yes. Nettie: How did you learn to be such a terrific businesswoman? Mary: I don't know! I had neighbors, Bobby, June, they grew many things in their garden. I like planting new things. I planted some new things that my neighbor planted. I don't see why I can't have new plantings even though my neighbor has. They asked me, "Where do you get all those things?"  I replied, "Where? In my garden—growing!" I saw different people asking at June's for rhubarb—I didn't want to invest in seeds, at first, so waited, thinking someone will give me some. One day my husband sent me to Union Center to buy seed because he was going to plant oats. I took my horse and wagon—along the way passed a farm that had a beautiful growth of rhubarb. A lady of the house was passing by—I called to her, "Hey, Mrs., I see you got very nice rhubarb." She answered in Slovak, "Oh, that thing—throw it out to the devil." I then asked, "Maybe, you could sell me some because I do not have any." The lady called her husband to dig out a clump. He did, put it in my wagon and told me to separate the roots, as they will grow thick. I had six plantings from that. Later on, I stopped at another farm—they, too, gave me rhubarb. I, sure, had a lot of rhubarb in my garden—by gosh—I had a lot of rhubarb. Boy! Oh boy! They call it strawberry rhubarb—the pink variety. When I saw the different interesting plants or vegetables—I always wanted to have them, too—I feel if I wanted to take the trouble to plant, take care of it—why not? I had everything! I loved to work—in Europe I remember when I was very young—I worked for a few pennies for this landlord—by gosh! Nettie: Did you sell jam at the market? Mary: No, no, no. At the beginning, I sold cookies—sugar cookies. Nettie: Did you bake them? Mary: Yes, you never believe it—25 pounds on Friday—I use everything for sugar cookies—they was 20¢ a dozen. (Laughing.) Honest to God—people stand in line—want a cookie—almost all lady in market, they ask me, "How soon you gonna have the sugar cookie?" That was lots of fun! Nettie: Did you make cakes? Mary: No, just cookies. They was not enough time—because every time our chicks were small—we had the small chicks, that needed attention, you have a little time so you have to work fast—we had the calves, chickens—so we had a lot of work—God knows. Nettie: Did you sell butter and cheese at the market? Mary: Oh—that just from in the beginning—because we had only three cows—we didn't have that much milk. Later, little by little we bought more cows—we had milk—the milkman picked it up—the milk—at beginning we didn't have that much—just enough to make cheese and butter. Oh yes, when I had her [daughter Nadine] 20th of May—Friday—I made 12 pounds butter and honest to God—20 pounds cheese—we had enough milk. My husband took it to the market—he sold it all. Nettie: You made a businessman out of him. Mary: Oh yeah, funny thing! Nettie: Do you have any more experiences? You did have many interesting experiences. Mary: Yeah. (Laughing). Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, Where did you go to school? Europe? Where did you get married? When you got married you probably went to work. Mary: When I was in Europe—we didn't have much schooling—my dad always said, "You'll never get bread to eat by going to school—you have to go out in the fields to work to have bread." I went to school—very little—they didn't give us a chance to go to school—Polish officials were against us—in attending school. Nettie: What did you learn? Mary: I learned Russian and Polish languages—we had to learn both languages. We attended school 8 to 11 in the morning. Later, work in the fields—that's all. [Interview #2: 20 June 1978] Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, will you continue telling me more about your life on the farm? Mrs. Fenson, let's go back to the flowers you used to raise on the farm—will you tell me more about it? Mary: Well, I raised just what I could sell at the market—see—various vegetables and anything that the customers requested, she accommodated them, and earned a good income. Nettie: You can go on. Did you ever have trouble with the disease that the gladiola had? Mary: No, never, because before you plant gladiolas you should soak them in the water at least 36 hours and then plant it. Nettie: Oh! first soak them— Mary: Oh, yeah—now people don't do that, but before, yes—uh—forgot what you put in the water—can't remember—-if gladiolas get the trips it is very hard to get rid of—just like if a person gets very ill and it is, is hard to get healed—from the trips— Nettie: Well, Mrs. Fenson, when you were on the farm, you told us the last time about how you used to drive the team of horses—did you ever learn to drive a car? Mary: No. Nettie: Did you ever try to learn? Did your husband teach you? Mary: Well, from the beginning we owned a truck. My husband said, "Why, the truck—let's buy a car.” He bought a car—Pontiac—nice car—brand new one. He told me, "Right away I will teach you and then you can drive a car.” All right, good—we bought a car—drove home to the farm and in the driveway—side of house—had to drive on the upgrade. He said, “Sit on this side, I'll tell you how to back out of the driveway.” I drove several feet—stalled the car—he said, “Oh! Oh! That’s all! You'll never learn to drive because if you gonna drive the car you gonna kill yourself—you gonna kill lots of people, you no good.” (Laughing.)  I was mad but they don't do no good—that's about how much I learned to drive the car. I asked, "All these years I used to go with the horses, now I can't go with the car.” He said, "You do not have any nerve to drive the car.” After that I just didn't want to learn anymore—there! As for being retired—we were not really retired that we wanted to—no—it was because my husband was very ill. What to do? Could not work in the fields or garden, noplace, because he was in the hospital most of the time. I got us thinking—to sell the cows and just live like that on the farm. So, we were going to live on the farm with nothing to raise, so we decided to sell the farm. We sold the farm, which is located across the road, and this land on which this house is built was empty—we decided to build a home on this land about the year 1953. Now we thought we could live fairly well, as they say, our business was in order, we saved a little money, no debts and just live—but then my husband started ailing—really ailing—and then just left me—passed away. Yes—it’s terrible—suffering—working—and then— [pause] He—if only he didn't smoke that much. He was a wonderful man—he wasn't a gambler, no drunk, no woman chaser, like they say, he was a wonderful man—he worked—did everything—did not have to have someone doing his work—just smoked endlessly since he was a young man. That's why he got emphysema and heart trouble, left everything. [Pause]. We also had a beautiful home in Florida—I thought that weather would agree with him—oh—but that did not help him. Nettie: Is the cigarettes that really got him? Mary: The cigarettes did that to him—the worst thing during the end, he had in the bedroom by the bed an oxygen tank—he had to inhale the oxygen in order to breathe—it was very difficult for me because he had to lie in bed and I had to apply this mask on him and see that he inhaled the oxygen, otherwise he would choke. That was really awful—God be with him—he just could not get well. Nettie: That's bad—cigarette smoking. I don't smoke—but many do and I don't think it is good for them. Mary: I have a daughter, Olga, I don't know if you knew her, she smokes constantly. I've talked, pleaded with her—nothing helps—just keeps on smoking—that's all. Nettie: Some people are like that. Mary: Yes, some men turn to smoking, some to drinking—you could live without this—live like God intended them to—but people don't look at it in that way. Nettie: I think if people want to indulge they can do so moderately. Mary: Oh—more I know—third of July will be 57 years that we came on this land—57 years. Nettie: Here on the farm? Mary: Yes—57 years. Here—the road—it was such a narrow road which was difficult to have two cars drive on it at one time—dirt road—no electricity—no, no, it was difficult living here. (Laughing.) We had kerosene lamps— Nettie: Where did you have the kerosene lamps? Mary: In the house. You put a kerosene lamp on a table and just sat around—there was no television, no radio, no nothing when we bought the farm, but we lived and everything was all right. Nettie: What did you do for water? Mary: Oh, we had a well near our house. We had to go out and pump our water when we needed water—see, in the house we did not have running water, only a well which you had outdoors to pump and get water. If I was in need of hot water, I had the stove with which I burned wood—that's how we got along. Nettie: That is a big change for people nowadays— Mary: Oh yes—nowadays—it is just like a day and night. People have all the conveniences—like washing machines, etc.—machines for everything—for people this is the life. I used a washboard. Nowadays, many people with conveniences tend to get lazy. Nettie: They don't want to work! No! Mary: I have an example. Look at my daughter, next door—she has a washing machine and dryer. Why does she have to pay for electricity for a dryer? Why, we have the beautiful outdoors where in no time her clothes can be dry and smell ever so sweetly—but no, she puts her clothes in one machine then another, that— (Laughing.) Nettie: This is an age of progress. Mary: Oh yeah, I didn't even have a decent electric iron to iron clothes—I only had a iron that you put on the stove, heated it and then did your, your ironing—heating constantly. Nettie: I had forgotten—how did you iron in those days? Mary: You took this iron—heated it—and with clamps you picked up the iron—then you iron. Nettie: This was a continuous heating? Mary: Yes, constantly. I had three of them heating—when one was cooled, you returned to the stove and took next one—you picked them up with a clamp that fitted on these irons. That's the way I ironed, but, you got used to it—that's all. Nettie: That's right. Mary: People have to get used to everything—if a necessity arises—people get used to it. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, did you ever do needlework? Mary: I did cross-stitch—oh, how I loved to do that. That is how I spoiled my eyesight—I always loved to do the cross-stitch. Nettie: What did you do? Mary: Oh, everything! Shirts—I worked cross-stitch on shirts which they used on theater plays on Baxter Street (St. Mary's Russian Orthodox Church). I really loved that type of needlework! Nettie: Yeah. Mary: Oh, needlepoint I didn't do that—crochet—I didn't do that. I didn't have enough nerve—you work, work, and nothing is appealing—but embroider-work, you have flowers, birds, etc. Nettie: Did you ever knit? Mary: No, cross-stitch is all I did—that was my life! Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, you must’ve been a pretty good baker. Did you make breads, cakes? Mary: Nothing much—I only made sugar cookies—cookies. Nettie: Oh yes. Mary: Other times—Friday was my day to bake cookies—I sold them on the market at 20¢ a dozen. Nettie: What kind? Mary: White sugar cookie—some people asked for molasses cookies, but it would not pay. I would make sugar cookies with lemon flavor—people sure loved them. I remember for a long time many elderly people would stop and ask, "When are you going to make cookies?" I told them, no more cookies—I had too much work in the fields. Later, we raised chickens, we had our own incubator for the chickens. When we came on the farm there was only one house and barn, no other buildings. Now we had a big new hen house, brooding house, raised own chickens, 3,000 of them, 14 cows. We had enough work—we had to milk cows— Nettie: Didn't you have any machinery? Mary: We had machinery at the time but did not have money to buy the machinery! All right—after a time we saved some money, were doing better. My husband said, "Now, let's buy a new machine." The machine cost $350—that is for a milking machine. It was wonderful—didn't need to milk by hand. All right, then came the harvest time—who is going to help you with the hay? My husband is older—cannot work—I could not do it—children scattered to many cities. So, again, who is going to work? At that point my husband decided, "Let us sell the farm." So, that is our retirement. There was no other way—before that, we were younger, able to work the fields or garden, milk cows, tend to the chickens, but after a person gets older, loses strength— Nettie: You should have had some help, right? Mary: My son-in-law worked in EJ until 4pm—later during daylight he would help my husband put the hay in bales, put it in the barn, and even on Saturdays and Sundays, he helped us. That's true, you can't find people to work on the farm, as industry is not too far off. They'd rather work in industry and not work such long hours on the farm. As I said, we finally sold the farm. My husband just did not want to along with the farm as, although we did get a nice sum for the farm, he started ailing. It was a constant procedure, to the hospital, home, operations, back and forth—back and forth. Must be that was our fate! It was bad, too—one of our daughters, Olga, had an operation—then the other daughter, Nadya, had an operation—they had appendicitis. Olga did not cost us too much but Nadya's operation cost quite a bit more as she had a rupture. She was in the hospital much longer. Nettie: Nadya—is that Nadine? I am Nadya, also. Mary: Yeah, that is Nadine. That is a beautiful name. When Nadya got ill they took her to the hospital. The doctor did not operate, at first, but told my husband it will cost you $500. We didn't have $500, so my husband went up to see his brother, Steve, for a loan. We paid the bill, doctor’s bill, at Lourdes Hospital. It was very hard for us to pay the hospital bill but the Sister of Lourdes Hospital were very sympathetic and made a deal. They told us, “You live on the farm, so try and pay us with produce, poultry and eggs—anything you can spare—in this way you can take care of the bill.” Nettie: This was a good deal because the hospital needs produce, chicken and eggs. Mary: Oh yeah, they always took 30 dozen eggs, 1 dozen cut up dressed chickens. They appreciated all this, as this is what they had to go out to buy, anyway. Nettie: This is a good example for this kind of barter now, since prices and taxes are so high. Mary: Oh no, not now—everything is different now—as day and night. People have changed—most are mixed up. (Sigh). Life has passed with all tribulations—as I said—times were tough, first one daughter had an operation, then the second daughter had an operation, and in 1940—all of sudden our house burned. Yeah, I was working with my daughter Olga in the garden and my husband was in the henhouse. I had not been in the garden very long when my husband yelled, "Ma, the house is on fire." Our garden was quite a ways from the house, therefore we did not see anything. Immediately, Olga ran up to the house and yelled, "Come on, come on!" I finally hurried to the house—by gosh, after we looked around the house was burning blaze. This was about 2pm. Nettie: What happened? Mary: Short circuit—what we had, everything perished. As for insurance, all we got was $500—because they had no fire stations, therefore we could not get more money. Nettie: What could a person do with so little as $500? Mary: That is right. We wanted to build a new home—but, what to do for money? Mr. Beckwith of Beckwith Lumber Company was also a person who was sympathetic to our needs. When he heard of our bad luck he came to see us. He asked, "Simon, do you have enough insurance?" My husband replied, "I hate to tell you we have only $500."  He said, “You can't too much with $500, but don't worry—find yourself a carpenter, have him measure how much lumber, etc., is needed and notify me. Everything will be taken care of.” That is exactly what we did, and the next day a truck from the lumber company arrived with the lumber. (Laughing.) We bought our lumber from Beckwith's during the years, whether to build a barn, henhouse, and paid our bills well. We eventually built our new home and paid our bills—somehow God sent us strength and business was good at the market—whatever we brought, we sold everything! It was just good luck—although everything was perished in the fire, but God gave us strength to work so that we came out—all right. Nettie: I think Mr. Beckwith was a good man to do that for you. You could see that he had a lot of respect for you—knowing you will pay your bills. Mary: Yeah, Yeah. Nettie: Nowadays situations are different. You would not find anyone who would trust a person like that. Mary: That is right, if you live a honest, clean life, people don't forget. Nettie: That is true, that is true. Mary: It will be 57 years that we lived on the farm—on July 3 or 4 was Sunday and people celebrated Monday. It was so cold— Nettie: 57 years ago? Mary: By gosh, when we moved up on the farm from Binghamton we had no lights, we could not see anything. I couldn't see my husband and he couldn't see me. (Laughing.) Here we wanted to connect our stove, but since we couldn't see what to do we decided to do just—wait until morning. The next morning we connected the stove, put the coal on the wood, and were warmed up—it was so cold that whole week that we thought we would have a frost—July 1920. Even with all of life's tribulations—if I had to relive my life, honest to God, I would relive it the same. Nettie: You would relive your life the same? Mary: I would relive it. If God told me to relive what I had been through, I would! Only give me back my strength—I just love to work in the fields, in the garden—that was my love, the outside, to work. I'm not like the ladies who get together for a coffee klatch or the ones who get together for bridge—theirs is a different life—I loved the outdoors. Sometimes, during the winter weather the snow was so high, you could not see very far, my husband would start off for the woods and say, "Do you think you could leave the children alone and go to the woods and help me?" (Laughing.) We had about 35 acres of woods—you could get a lot of lumber out of them—but some of the trees needed a cross-cut saw, so I would go with my husband and help to hold the saw as he cut the lumber. Nettie: Did you go out in the bitter weather? Mary: Sure, I'd put on boots and go in the deep snows. When you are out in the snow you don't realize you are cold—because you are working. When times are tough you get used to do everything. Nettie: I think when you are in the woods or working in the garden it gives you such a peace of mind—such a peaceful atmosphere! Mary: Yeah, while my husband is cutting the wood I'm piling the wood—helping him in any way I could. We worked all the time—we had enough of wood for our home use. We had a country schoolhouse down the way to which we sold several cords of wood, too. Nettie: Do you still have it? Mary: No, no, we sold it with the farm—that's all. We sold everything with the farm but two acres—there it lies dormant—I can't work it anymore—the land is idle—when I was able to work I had everything, raspberries, vegetables, etc.—even flowers. Here we get a lot of traffic passing our home, we were able to sell all of our produce and flowers. Now, I look at the idle land—I can't walk— Nettie: It must make you feel bad, doesn't it? Mary: It hurts. It pains me to know you have the land but I can't walk, I can't even bend—it's right there—you can't get to it—I see it—that's all. I've been to many doctors—upper body is fine but my feet and knees, arthritis. I have X-ray after X-ray, but it does no good because all they tell me is I have bad arthritis. I know all of this and it is frustrating. You could have all the money in the world, but, if you don't have good health—it is not good. My husband tried to see that all of our debts were paid, we saved a little money, and since our children have grown up, married and moved to distant places, we would just enjoy life together—but look what happened. He became ill—very ill—left this world—that's all—only I am here—left alone on this earth—that's all. (Laughing.) We came to live on this road 57 years ago—this road leading to the airport. No one is left—they have all passed away—only I am still living. Oh no, there is one man, a Slovak man who lives in a small white house near the school. His name is Valenta. Nettie: We were talking about the holy day called Troitsa. Do you recall how they celebrated that day? Mary: Our church parishioners go to the cemetery on that day to have services, memorial services for the deceased of the parish. Many of the people put branches on the graves to commemorate the day. Nettie: Do you remember how they used to decorate the homes on that day? Mary: Yes, Yes everybody had branches of trees on the doors, windows on that holy day, Troitsa. They also strewed large blades of greens—someone told us it is called cattails—on the floors. In Europe they used to bring large trees and dig them in the ground around the doors—greens everywhere—every niche in the house, roof, etc. Nettie: What was the reason for that? Mary: It was a such a holy day that they all did that and believed in it, I don't understand. (Day of the Holy Spirit). Also, on that day we used to go to the marshes to pick the cattails which grow there. This Troitsa (Pentecost) is a big holy day and I also, remember when I was a young girl in Europe we used to make bouquets of cattails, greens and May flowers. All girls of my age, we took the bouquets to church—filing in twos we would walk down the aisle and have our bouquets blessed by the priest. Also, another custom was celebrated 3-4 weeks later on another holy day was, we made wreaths and also took took them to church to be blessed and then, about a week later, about of August 19 we took fruits of all sorts to be blessed—thanking God for a good harvest of fruits. Nettie: What place did you come from, Mrs. Fenson? Mary: Austria. Nettie: Austria—that must have been on the border of Poland or Russia. Mary: Yes, on the border of—uh—Wolynskia Gubernia [Volhynian Governorate]. Nettie: Was the name of the town? Mary: Selo Wisosko was what it was called—we call it Brody. Nettie: My father was from that city. Mary: You mean it?! (Laughing.) The Wolynski boys used to come to our town, just to our neighboring selo [town]. They said they liked when the Wolynski boys came because they were nice gentlemen who brought candy, cigarettes, tobacco, and even brought liquor. (Laughing.) The Austrian girls made pirohys, so there was always a party. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, thank you very much for telling me more of your life and experiences—I really appreciate it. Mary: You are welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Subject The topic of the resource Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Description An account of the resource Mrs. Fenson continues to talk about her life on a farm in Johnson City, NY and the day a fire destroyed her home and how the Beckwith Lumber Co. assisted in rebuilding. She also discusses the customs of her culture on Pentecost (Troitsa). Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. 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Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6e6f33bdc43f2cbab131a77825d92ce9.mp3 f84ed1b58756b452d14a5699d7b33ff9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:14 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56033">Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart</a> Subject LCSH Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. 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Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Interview by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 26 April 1978 Dan: Well Slam, would you give me the—your life and working experiences starting with your date and place of birth? Slam: Well I was born, ah, born and raised in ah, Englewood, New Jersey, quite a few years ago—that goes back to 1914, and of course I, coming up, I went through at least got through High School and ah as far as ah my musical career, I may as well start out by saying that ah who, when I was about ah six years old seven years old, I started out playing the little violin—squeak box—and ah it lasted for a while until I ah got into my first year in High School and ah somehow I didn't care for too much for the little violin—I became interested in the ah big fiddle—the bull fiddle, which they happened to have in the school—in the music room at school and somehow I got around to the point of trying, trying this bass fiddle out and I had to have one of the ah violinists in the orchestra to show me how to even tune it—I didn't even have the ah, didn't have the ah knowledge of the big one so that's the way I started playing my ah bass fiddle—that's what started me ah in my bass fiddle car—well my career, you might say, playing music. After I got out of the High School I went to Boston Conservatory of Music—this was around 1934 and ah studied for a year or two in Boston. At the same time, I was getting quite a bit of experience playing to a couple of nightclubs in and around Boston and that was the beginning of ah, you might say ah my musical happenings. Of course while I was ah playing and working at music around Boston—I wouldn’t say that I wasn't, I hadn't really become a professional at that time until I ah left Boston a few years after I started up there and ah came back close to home around New York City, where I, I made my rounds ah getting into everything I could get into musically, that is ah jam sessions uptown and Harlem and what have you and ah I ah started working on ah 52nd Street. Of course before then—that came a little later 52nd Street—before then, I teamed up with ah a young man ah we ah called ourselves ah this other fella’s name was Slim, Slim Gaillard that is and of course I teamed up with Slim and ah we were trying to get a professional name for me—he'd already more or less had been a professional—so we were trying to get a name for me and ah that’s how I came upon the name of "Slam" ah playing with ah doin our act together "Slim and Slam" for me and so that was really the beginning of my ah professional ah career in, in music—playing the bass fiddle and during this time I, I had developed a style of playing the bass ah in a way that ah no other bass player really in the jazz field had played it. Matter of fact I, I studied ah a technique of humming my hot jazz solos and humming along with ah what I played an octave higher than what I was playing to make this ah, you might say, a unique ah jazz style of playing the bass and it became quite popular. So I kept that in and I’M still, still trying to do it today and enhance upon it of course. I'm always trying to learn something new and ah like I said that was the beginning of my professional career in ah music. After I was with Slim, Slim and I lasted about oh maybe two or three years—something like that. Then ah our team broke up because he had to go into the Army and ah— Dan: This was around the first World War: 1919, 1918? Slam: That's right—no not quite that far back. Dan: No let’s see, that would be 2nd World War. Slam: The second one, yeah. Dan: This goes back to ’41. Slam: ’41 - right. Dan: OK. Slam: Of course Slim and I, we collaborated upon the, a huge, a great big, big hit record which was ah called, everybody I know everybody will remember it, "Flat Foot Floogie (with a Floy Floy)." Dan: Ah that was a big hit. Slam: That was our, our big hit. Dan: Uh huh, in other words did you compose that yourself? Slam: Well Slim and I collaborated upon this, this ah number. Dan: The lyrics and the words? Slam: Yes that's right. Dan: Is that right—that was a big number—I can remember that myself. Slam: That was really it for us. Mrs. Stewart: They buried it in the time capsule at the World's Fair. Dan: Is that right? Slam: Buried in the time capsule—the World's Fair ah 1939. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Yes, in New York so anyway after I broke up with ah—we broke up and I went my way. I ah, I played with ah a couple of groups—that's when I started ah more or less working on the famous ah 52nd Street ah I ah before I went on the street that is, I joined, ah, Art Tatum—the great blind pianist. I joined Art Tatum out in California and ah, we, ah, did quite a few things out on the coast and worked our way back to ah to New York City, that is 52nd Street where I played with ah Art Tatum—this on ah at a place called the “Three Deuces” and that was really ah the beginning of a wonderful career. I ah played there with Art Tatum until, ah, see, ah, Art Tatum became ah, ill one night—he couldn't make our sessions, ah, so I tried to make ends meet by ah—I had heard of a wonderful ah pianist down the street at another club and ah his name was Earl, Earl Garner. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah I had been down to this club listening to Earl once in a while, he was workin’ about the same time on the Street—that's what we called 52nd Street, the street you know. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And ah somehow, ah, I got an idea—this place the “Three Deuces” where, where I was working ah—it was left upon me really. The manager of the place asked me to see what I could do to replace ah Art Tatum—he couldn't make it and thought for a minute, why didn't I run down the Street and see Earl Garner and see if he can kind of help us out—so that's what I did and ah he ah, his boss, Earl's boss, he was working a place called the Torondelaose an his boss—I asked his boss and Earl, could Earl help me out to play a couple of sets or so with me in the “Three Deuces” while Art couldn't, couldn’t make it and it, it was so nice of his boss to let Earl do this, ah, Earl with—here's what happened—Earl would play his couple of sets in his place and run down to my place the “Three Deuces,” our place and fill in and took Art, Art Tatum's place with what we call eventually my trio and we had on guitar John Collins at the time and so that happened for ah ah few nights. Art wasn't still able to make it. As a matter of fact ah we found out that Art was becoming very seriously ill so he had to go back to California so that ah left it up to me to keep things going at the “Three Deuces” which eventually ah Earl Garner’s boss let him join me ah permanently, you know—it was awfully nice of him to ah to have him to do that, you know—so Earl became a permanent, ah, member of ah my trio. Dan: And you called yourself what? Slam: The "Slam Stewart Trio." Dan: "Slam Stewart Trio." Mrs. Stewart: And you took him into the Strand Theater too. Slam: Yes and I ah I eventually we ah got ah hold of a drummer when made it a "Slam Stewart Quartet" and which my wife just said that ah we went, we played the ah quite a few theaters up and down the east coast especially the ah Strand Theater in New York City and that lasted for quite a while on and off ah let’s see around ’46. Mrs. Stewart: ’45. Slam: ’45 I got an offer from Benny Goodman, who was working down the street not too far from the ah “Three Deuces” on 6th Avenue at the ah theater which was, which was called ah “Seven Lively Arts” I believe it was and ah it was sort of a show that Benny and his sextet was doing at the theater. So I got a call from Benny if he asked me would I play the show with him, which I do it, which I did and ah it wasn't too hard on me because ah the show ah started at 9 o'clock, I think it went from 9 until approximately 10 to 10:30 and at the same time I went and did this show with ah Benny, Benny Goodman and at the same time I had to rush back to the “Three Deuces” to fulfill that ah gig there, you know—so that was the first time I had experience with ah Benny Goodman. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And during that time of course, Earl Garner left me and ah went his way with his own group and ah I stayed with Benny Goodman and that lasted for a year or so. Mrs. Stewart: Two years. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: You forgot to tell him that in the early ’40s you made a lot of movies. Slam: Oh yes I— Mrs. Stewart: You did a Broadway show too. Slam: I did a Broadway show with ah ah Lady Day, Billie Holliday and I also did I think another one—Broadway show, I forget the name of it but anyway I was— Dan: Was this when you were with Earl Garner? Slam: Ah— Dan: Or was this "Slam Stewart Trio"? Slam: Slam Stewart, ah, Trio. Dan: Yes, with Earl Garner. Slam: No, no I was in and out ah in other words it could have been when I was with Goodman. Dan: Yeah. Slam: But ah the one show that I did at the Strand Theater, I had Earl Garner with me then. Dan: I see. Slam: At that time but ah, ah when I went with ah Goodman I, that isn't all that I did, you know, I would ah do a little other things outside of playing ah ah Benny—I was recording, in fact I recorded quite a bit. Dan: Umhm. Slam: During the ’40s, I recorded on just about with everybody you can think of and I must have made ah, which included Benny Goodman Sextet, Lionel Hampton, Dizzy Gillespie—you name them, I— Dan: (laughter) Slam: I made so many recordings I must have made during the ’40s at least up to 200 or more 250 or more sides with ah different groups. Dan: Uh huh—any gold records in there? Slam: Any ah gold records? Mrs. Stewart: Most of it was classics. Slam: Ah most of them—not ah that one the for that I did with Slim—that was a gold record. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: “Flat Foot Floogie.” Dan: Yeah. Slam: And ah let’s see what others—I made so many recordings that I can't remember them. Dan: Uh huh—sure. Slam: You know it is kind of hard. Dan: Where have you been in your travels, Slam? Slam: Well I have, ah, I've been quite a few places in the world. I've been to Europe, ah, I've been to Australia—I've never been to Japan or China, but ah, most, ah, many places in Europe. Dan: Umhm. Slam: And I’ve been to ah not South America—what's the place—the island? Mrs. Stewart: Puerto Rico. Slam: Puerto Rico. Dan: Uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: Hawaii. Slam: Hawaii—that’s right. Dan: Now is this with a group, Slam? Slam: Well ah, ah, I ah, I joined a group on, ah, most of the places. Dan: I see, I see. Slam: You know. Dan: In other words you were a soloist and then you joined a group at each place that you went. Slam: That's right, yes. Mrs. Stewart: He's appeared about 20 times just since we've been in Binghamton. Slam: Oh sure, yes. Mrs. Stewart: And taking your own groups too. Slam: Yeah, well the years have passed and ah, oh, I've been through quite a, quite a few things. Say, for instance, I’ve ah, been with, ah, Benny Goodman again, my second time around with him, and— Dan: Were you with Duke Ellington at any time? Slam: No, I've never been with him—I've sat in with him. Dan: Cab Calloway? Slam: Ah no, I've never—the only large band that I've had experience with is, ah, Benny Goodman's large band. Dan: Yeah. Slam: Which I recorded with, mostly. Dan: Right. Slam: But ah most of my experience with Benny Goodman ever was just with the, ah, small group. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Sextet. Mrs. Stewart: One of the movies you made was with Cab. Slam: Yeah I made one movie with ah which Cab was in. Mrs. Stewart: Fats Waller. Slam: With Fats Waller. Mrs. Stewart: You played the sax in that one. Slam: Yeah. Mrs. Stewart: But Cab's Band was in the movie—he made more than one movie though—this sounds like he made one—he made a lot of additional—still running too—see them on television. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: This one we’re talking about, ah, was called “Stormy Weather.” Dan: Umhm. Mrs. Stewart: Hellzapoppin’—you were in that. Slam: Hellzapoppin’—I was in that. “Oh Boy What a Girl.” Mrs. Stewart: “Red, White and Blue.” Slam: What have you—oh geez. Dan: Where were these movies made, were they made down in New York? Slam: No, in Hollywood. Dan: Hollywood, uh huh. Slam: A long time has passed. Dan: Well you’re still active, aren't you Slam? Slam: Yes I am, ah, fairly active—not as much as I used to be of course. I have, ah, played with ah symphonies, say for instance with the, ah, Indianapolis Symphony, the Binghamton Symphony of course and Toronto Symphony and I played with the Lincoln String Quartet, ah. Mrs. Stewart: Harpsichordist. Slam: Harpsichordist. Mrs. Stewart: Classical music. Slam: Classical, yes. Dan: Now when did you come to Binghamton, Slam? Slam: I came to Binghamton about 10 years ago. Dan: 10 years ago. Slam: Yeah. Dan: And for what reason? Slam: Well on account of the young lady whom I'm married to. Dan: Well that's about as good a reason as I can think of. (laughter) Slam: Yes indeed and I find it has been my most happy experience in life. Has been wonderful and very good to me all the way around. Dan: Yeah, well it's the—your life has been very rewarding—there’s a lot of memories and everything but you're on the go all the time. Slam: Well yes like I say not as much as I used to I— Dan: Not now but I mean in your prime you were pretty busy. Slam: Oh yes, I had been very busy, which I didn't mind at all you know. Dan: No, no, when you're younger why you can take it. Slam: That's for sure. Mrs. Stewart: Ah Marge Hinman was surprised—remember when you did the historic architecture—this house is in it. Dan: This house is in it? Mrs. Stewart: In the Broome County ah Historical Societies Architecture. Dan : Oh it is. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah and she said she was so shocked when she found out that Slam and I owned it. Dan: Oh is that right. There’s another gentleman, I’m going to Friday to Windsor, another gentleman, his name is English and his house is in the—that same book. Mrs. Stewart: Umhm. Dan: That house was built in 1823 and it also served as an underground railroad station. Slam: Oh yes. Mrs. Stewart: This is 1870. Dan: 1870, uh huh. Mrs. Stewart: And it's all ours. Dan: That’s wonderful. Slam: It's all ours. Dan: Well that’s great, that's great. So anyway you went to High School and you went to the Boston Conservatory of Music. Slam: That's right. Dan: And that’s where you took up the bass viol and, ah, specialized and from there on expanded. Slam: Ah. Dan: Have you been in England? Slam: I've been in England, yes. Dan: Have you played before the Queen of England? Slam: No I— Mrs. Stewart: Played at Royal Albert Hall though. Slam: Royal Albert Hall there and she may have been there during one of our performances there. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Oh I’ve been quite a few places, ah, Italy and Spain, Germany, Finland. Mrs. Stewart: Sweden. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Now is this a tour that you took yourself Slam? Slam: No I— Dan: A tour or was that mapped out for you? Slam: It was mapped out for us—in fact I was with Goodman on quite a few of them. Dan: I see. Slam: Ah tours when I played. I've been to France quite a few times on my own, ah I've done, ah, quite a bit of recording there in France, in fact I was, ah, part, I played part of, ah, background music for a picture or two that were made in, ah, France. Dan: I see—now have you done any more composing at all? Slam: Well not, ah really, no I haven't—I'm thinking very seriously about, ah, taking it a little more easier than I'm doing now and just do some ah some more composing—the Wife and I. Dan: Yeah. Slam: You know I think— Mrs. Stewart: He has a published book though… Slam: I have a book on, ah, bass. Dan: Oh, you have published a book on bass? Slam: The Technique on Bass. Dan: Is that right—when was that published? Slam: Oh that was published back in the ’40s. Dan: 1940s, yeah. Are you a musician too, Mrs. Stewart? Mrs. Stewart: Yes. Slam: Yes she is. Dan: That's wonderful. Slam: Plays a wonderful, ah, piano. Dan: Well that's great—you've got a lot in common. Slam: We've done quite a few things together. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: Schools and what have you—in this area too. Mrs. Stewart: I play as little as I can get away with, Dan. Dan: (laughter) Mrs. Stewart: I think maybe if you read his biography in Who’s Who—it might help you. Who's Who in America—I have it right here. Dan: Ah he's been in Who's Who in America? Mrs. Stewart: He is in it and now he's in the next edition—they just sent me a copy of it. Slam: Well yes. Dan: It must make you very proud, Slam. Slam: Oh thank you. Dan: Honest to God it's remarkable. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's played major countries all over the world. Dan: Blessed to have a community like this to have such famous men. Slam: Ah it's wonderful. Mrs. Stewart: He goes out and plays and he's been every country all over the world he's played and he'll come home and I’ll say “How”—you know there's nothing out there—it’s all here. Slam: Yeah. Dan: Were you in service at all, Slam? Slam: No I didn’t make the, ah, service. Dan: Uh huh—well you kept yourself busy, though. Slam: Yes. Dan: Now do you belong to any organizations or anything like that? Slam: Well yes, ah, at the time, I belonged to the Sertoma organization here and outside of that ah— Mrs. Stewart: You’re a member of Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church. Slam: Yes. Dan: Oh you are—Sts. Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Church? Slam: Yes. Dan: Is that here in Binghamton? Slam: In Endicott. Dan: Oh, it's in Endicott. Slam: Yes. Dan: Yeah—one of our girls belongs to that same church. Slam: Uh yeah. Dan: Yeah—well is there anything else you would like to tell me, Slam, before I turn off this machine? Mrs. Stewart: He has two fellowships—he has one from Newing here and one from— Dan: I think he's being very shy about his accomplishments. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah I always had— Dan: Now he's got these fellowships from where? Mrs. Stewart: He has from Newing College here at the University and he has one from the Yale University. Dan: Yale? Mrs. Stewart: Yeah, we just came back from Yale—he goes back all the time. We've just gotten back last Saturday in fact another beautiful session. He’s very involved in Yale University. Dan: Uh huh, well that's great. Mrs. Stewart: I saw him last week performing with the students and it was— Dan: I suppose you get quite a few requests from the students over at the University to perform. Slam: Oh yes, I have. Mrs. Stewart: You know it's funny—the young students decided themselves, with no help, that they wanted to play their Prom this year. Dan: Uh huh. Slam: And he's going to Charleston to play this Filado Festival and that was the same date and about 3 days after they decided they could, I got a call from our University saying their students had decided the same thing. Yeah. Dan: Well you can’t be two places at the same time. Slam: That's right. Mrs. Stewart: No he couldn't be at either one of them, which was sad, because he would have liked to have done this, you know—but he was really thrilled that the kids came up with the idea themselves. Dan: Well I certainly appreciate this interview, Slam. Slam: Oh that's all right. I wish I could remember some more things. Dan: Well with all the places you've been, it's remarkable that you remember what you did. Mrs. Stewart: Well he's probably been to Europe twenty times. Slam: Oh sure. Mrs. Stewart: Closest he's been to Binghamton to Europe. Dan: Twenty times just since he's been here—that's in the last 10 years. Mrs. Stewart: Yeah. Dan: And that's not counting the number of times he's been to Europe. Mrs. Stewart: Before. Dan: Before. Mrs. Stewart: Since he began going in the ’40s. Slam: That's right, sure. Dan: Well that's great. Well I’ll ah turn this off and play it back for you if you like, Slam. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart Subject The topic of the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Englewood (N.J.); Boston Conservatory; Musicians -- Interviews; Goodman, Benny; Benny Goodman Sextet; Slam Stewart Trio; Garner, Earl; Tatum, Art; Gaillard, Slim; State University of New York at Binghamton; Yale University Description An account of the resource Leroy Elliott (Slam) Stewart, born in Englewood, NJ, describes his young life and education. He studied the  bass violin in high school and after graduation attended the <a href="https://www.bostonconservatory.edu/">Boston Conservatory of Music</a>. He details his professional career, teaming up with <a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0301254/">Slim Gaillard</a>, <a href="http://www.npr.org/programs/jazzprofiles/archive/tatum.html">Art Tatum</a>, and later Earl Garner to become "the Slam Stewart Trio." He went on to join the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Goodman">Benny Goodman Sextet</a>, traveling all over the world, developing a distinct style of playing and eventually publishing a book, The Techniques of Bass. He speaks about his big-hit composition "Flat Foot Floogie," which received a gold record and was buried in a time capsule at the World's Fair in New York in 1939. He also describes his numerous recordings and his work in film. He mentions his fellowships with SUNY Binghamton and <a href="http://www.yale.edu%20">Yale University.</a> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 58 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Stewart, Leroy Elliott (Slam) ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:14 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/97c02042ed74f06130a242024fe5d37e.mp3 d3bcb433718454073e81d409357d62e7 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/faf1d380697d97db773ca15507e3ff25.mp3 0e5b4abcee1e8e7e7aa2e49fd4426c8d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sargent, Clealand A. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-26 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56011">Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent</a> Subject LCSH Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. Clealand A. Sargent Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 26 April 1978 Dan: Doctor would you give me ah your life and experiences, working experiences in the community, starting back to when you were born and where you were born? Dr. Sargent: Well I was born in Richford, Vermont. R-I-C-H-F-O-R-D, Vermont—it's right on the Canadian border. My father was took before the Customs, that's how we happened to be there. I graduated from Richford High School in 1912, June 1912 and entered the University of Vermont that fall in 1912 and I graduated in Medicine there in June, yeah in June 1918. Served my internship at the Mary Fletcher Hospital in Burlington, and ah that was during the War, I came—then I started in private practice at Orwell, Vermont. Orwell, Vermont, which is on Lake Champlain. They asked the college to send a physician there because they had lost two, so I went there and had 5 towns to cover in the practice, practice of medicine and ah I certainly enjoyed it and expected to stay there but in December in 1923, I had pneumonia and it was a very bad case with many complications and eventually from December 11 to April, I didn't do anything and then discovered I had pulmonary tuberculosis so I didn't—I had to quit private practice entirely. I received a fellowship with the Rockefeller Foundation. Now briefly, the Rockefeller Foundation was started in 1919. John D. Rockefeller gave 200 million dollars for public health service from the advice of his minister. He read the Bible and said the next time he came to Heaven—what did I do, so he told him just start out—do good with your money and that's your home. So he established the Rockefeller Foundation with 200 million dollars ah and also with that they named, they established a training station for physicians to go into preventive medicine. They built a medical school in Peking, China—they built the finest Medical College in University of Chicago and ah this fellowship I started on my birthday, January 13, 1925. I started as a fellow of the Rockefeller Foundation in Andalusia, Alabama ah my first I was there under training by men who had, doctors who had worked various stations throughout the world from the very beginning—in fact, in fact they had the United States. My first experience was with the control of malaria. For a boy born in Vermont, we didn't see very much malaria. I, we were thoroughly trained by men who very well experienced it. Ah as an illustration we started out in the morning - we were given a dose of Atabrine then we were given a thing to put on our wrist like a wristwatch but it had no bottom to it. You were supposed to catch mosquitoes—crawl under houses and what not, get mosquitos and put them under here (pointing to wristwatch) have ‘em eat. Dan: Incubate? Dr. Sargent: Feed on your, feed on your skin to keep them alive until you get back to the laboratory because they had to determine what type of infection they had and ah after malaria experience, I was taught to control the hookworms disease and hookworm disease starts by a worm that burrows through the soles of the feet goes up into the bloodstream coughed up and swallowed and attaches itself to the intestinal tract—causes slow hemorrhage. We have taken, while I was there, we as a team—a nurse, a doctor, a nurse and a clerk and go in this school and we got feet for examination and ah if found hookworms, got permission to advance and treat these children and we have taken away as many as 2000 hookworms from one individual. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Sargent: And it is a very serious affair. Well from that, the State passed, they assigned somebody to help establish school health programs in the northern part of the State of Alabama. I was sent up there with a very well trained public health nurse—Rockefeller Foundation and then there was an outbreak of diphtheria at Muscle Shoals and I was sent up to work at Florence, Tuscumbia, Columbia, Sheffield, Ford City in control of diphtheria and while I was there we let the water through the flues to start with—the electric power for the State of Alabama—it was very interesting work there. Well ah we did some roundworm control later and then I was assigned to the City of Montgomery, Alabama diphtheria control and while I was doing that, there was an outbreak of smallpox at Columbus, Ohio and I was sent to Oberlin to establish a control program for the outbreak of this smallpox and we were there about 6 weeks because after we vaccinated several thousand people ah against smallpox and things bought under control, they asked me to stay and help the Health Officer with diphtheria control program. Well being nice about it—children against diphtheria and then they asked me to go to the State of—well they gave me a choice of either going to to Panama or to West Virginia—black lung disease area or Springfield, Ohio or to the State of Delaware and in checking the various areas I chose Delaware because they had several serious and interesting health problems—one of the most interesting was infant mortality. Nearly, at that time, nearly a fourth of all the babies died before they got to be a year old and when we—course the first thing to do when we got there was to study the situation and find out why this occurred and we found that outside of Wilmington, 90% of the babies were delivered by illiterate midwives. Most of them could not read or write. They were either colored or from the southern borough, whatnot. Well after we made our study and got the information we needed, we went to the State Legislature and asked for authority to establish a code and ah they gave us that authority and we examined and tested all the midwives and as a result, we eliminated about 50% of it. They couldn’t read nor write and every midwife was under the direction of one of our public health nurse—she had to report to us when she was engaged on a case. The public health nurse followed the case until the delivery and we brought the infant mortality down to 20-25 per thousand we brought it down to 20 but while we were doing this, the State Health Commissioner asked me if I would do something about diphtheria control because they had it typed over 400 for 1000 population—so we set up clinics—I have a picture of one of them right there where I was working (points to photo) Wilmington, Delaware and we immunized 80,000 against diphtheria—practically eliminated it. Then they had a bad typhoid situation and we started in on a sanitation program—building pit privies and whatnot—sanitarians to control typhoid. Well it was all very interesting ah but I had an opportunity then to go to Johns Hopkins with the Rockefeller Foundation and take some courses in public health that was the school of hygiene and I have two Diplomas from Hopkins besides one I have from the University of Vermont. Well then I, after leaving, got a ride into New York State and I didn't know it at the time but Commissioner Moses of the Parks—State Park Commission was working with Canada to establish the seaway, St. Lawrence Seaway and I had charge of syphilis control along Erie, Lake Erie from Canada to Pennsylvania. Had headquarters in Buffalo and ah it was the most interesting experience. We eventually had about 70,000 blood tests which were recorded by Russel Soundex. We worked at all the hospitals—blood donations and things like that. I worked at Erie County penitentiary which was as large as most State prisons—worked with the Doctor there with control among the prisoners. Then and I also worked at Attica prison every Wednesday—Erie county every Tuesday—only had a day but Wednesday. Attica was most interesting because ah at that time the United States Public Health service had a representative in 150 different foreign cities and if we found a ah sailor or another person there from jail who had syphilis and could name the prostitute or contact in any city of the world, we would notify the State Health Department who would notify the Public Health Service who would notify his representative and we found active cases a far away as Hong Kong. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Sargent: Then ah—I can't remember what happened then, I ah, Oh there's a series of disease known as titseal. They're caused by a bug that burrows in the skin and ah causes a disease like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Well there’s a disease known as "tutsi magutsi" which is a titular disease imported from Japan and it appeared on Long Island and ah I was taken out of, well we've been about 5 years in the census control program and we had clinics well established so on and so forth. I thought my assistant could carry on so they put me down on Long Island and we hired hunters to kill rabbits so we could get the ticks out of the ears of the rabbits and we hired donkeys to roam the countryside, then we catch the donkeys at night and get the, get somebody to get the ticks out of the donkey's ears to bring to our laboratory. Dan: That was the source of the disease? Dr. Sargent: To determine what kind of ticks we had. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: There's different kind of diseases caused by various ticks. Well, while I was there ah the man who, the Doctor who had charge of the State Regional office in New York City retired and they asked me to take it over—the State—that’s how I came to being employed by the State of New York and I had supervision over all of Westchester County and all of Long Island and also a $400,000. The State paid New York City for its child health clinics—we had to check that to see if it was spent properly. Well then I got, I got some requests for training assignments and the State gave me permission to take and it was extreme interesting because I think I learned more than I gave my students. I, because on Wednesday nights I went to University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, gave a 2 hour lecture every Wednesday night and many of the students were from foreign countries and they had a lot of experience—I had run into that at Hopkins so that I was made aware of some of the problems of foreign countries. Well then on Thursday mornings I gave a 2 hour lecture at New York University Medical School out there. Thursday evenings I gave a 2 hour lecture at the school of Administration and that was interesting at Washington Square. Then Friday morning I gave a 2 hour lecture for University of Columbia and I had my area covered—everything from Montauk Point top of Westchester County and it was farther from Montauk to my office than on up to Albany, so I had all city driving—I lived in Ossining and commuted 6 days a week in the worst traffic in the world. 9 o'clock in the morning to 5 o'clock at night.  Dan: Gee. Dr. Sargent: And ah I thoroughly enjoyed it but then I got tripped up—I got a coronary. an: Uh huh—what year was this Doctor? Dr. Sargent: That was in 1921 and ah I didn't work from August until April at all ‘cause I had other complications along with other complications and when I had pneumonia, I got collapse of the lower lobe of my right lung and this is tuberculosis—so everything stacked up against me. So the State assigned me, after I could get back to work, they assigned me to the City of Syracuse. First as District Officer which included 5 of the counties upstate. Simply—supervision over the work of the local health officer. Well then the Mayor of the City of Syracuse asked me to take over the job as Commissioner of Health of Syracuse—I didn't want any part of it and said I wouldn't take it. Dan: A little too strenuous? Dr. Sargent: Pardon? Dan: A little too strenuous? Dr. Sargent: No—too much politics. Dan: Too much politics. (laughter). Dr. Sargent: And ah I said I’d have no part of it at all. When I left his office—came out on television that (I have a hiatal when I talk too much—it chokes me) ah it came out on television that I was going to be the next Health Commissioner and ah I said I didn't want it—so I called the Mayor said, "I'll do it as long as I'm in it because my son is in college; when he gets through, he and I are going to run our apple orchard up in Vermont and I'll do it until he gets straightened around," because I thought I’d last just about that long. He's got some real problems and I wasn't going to stand for it. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: Now somebody watching it—straighten out some of their problems. Well I took the thing over and found out that first of all—well I wrote to the census bureau and Syracuse has 32 census tracts and in my work you have to know conditions before you can have any programs or do anything. Well I had heard rumors—I knew roughly what the situation was but I wanted facts. So I wrote the Census Bureau and I got the last 5 census figures for the 32 census tracts and asked to name the population as of that date. Then we figured the various for date mortality rates by census tracts and we centered all of our working 10 census tract 5 all downtown—all bunched by downtown and ah first thing which we did was start a housing program which had not been done in this State except in the middle of New York City. I went to Washington and discussed it with them and they assigned a man by the name of Traboney, who had a lot of experience in that field and he came to Syracuse and established a school in the health department to teach sanitary units how to do good building inspections—home inspections and of course we trained our own inspectors—we had several men from other cities come there so we did quite a bit in housing and then they—we got some trouble with food outbreaks, which we didn't like at all and we traced it largely to a salmonella infection from poultry. Then we went at the poultry business ah after the poultry business and ah as a result we were the only place in the State which barred New York dressed poultry and New York dressed poultry in those days all they did was kill the bird and pick the feathers off. Sold it to you with the intestines and everything in. Well that was where we were getting in trouble, so we stopped the sales of New York dressed poultry and then salmonella stopped ah but ah we then, they had a tuberculosis case funding program in which each year they x-rayed all employees of various factories over and over again year after year and it cost about $4500 to find a case of tuberculosis that way—so we went into the tuberculosis problem and we studied very carefully by census tracts, by age groups, by occupation and we found that the bulk of our cases were in the middle age group among food handlers and bartenders—so we stopped examining the factories—we required all food handlers to have chest x-rayed at our expense every year and we, our case load then was quite heavy to find new cases cost us less than $500 against $4500 other way. We also x-rayed all the people once a month at the Onondaga Penitentiary because they had drifters from everywhere. When we found a case that didn't belong to us we notified their Health Officer and we worked our local jail, x-rayed people down there for the same reason. We picked up people we had and gotten away from us and weren't under treatment—so we had intensive tuberculosis control program and housing program. Then we went into air pollution control and again working with Washington, set up an air pollution control program—I think we were the first in the State outside of New York City that was doing that and ah I tried to get rid of meat inspection because they weren't inspecting meat for anything—that we'd be infected by—I couldn't, there's too much influence through the meat people I couldn't—there's some big ones up there.  Dan: This is all in Syracuse now? Dr. Sargent: Yeah and ah there's an interesting thing—I don't want to take your time though. Dan: No, you're not taking my—I've got all the time in the world so you go right ahead Doctor. Dr. Sargent: Well let me illustrate what I meant by wanting to get rid of meat inspection. We had eight slaughterhouses when I worked there and I went to the mayor—was Costello and ah said, "I don't want anything to do with meat inspection—that's Ag and Markets business." I said, "Don't look for anything that infects human beings anyway"—it was just a lot of headaches. The meat men had too much influence and too much money, I couldn't do it. But anyway, I found that every inspector in every plant was working for the guy he was supposed to be inspecting. Dan: Is that right? In cahoots with the slaughterhouse.  Dr. Sargent: So, I, I started raising hell about them, said, "Well if you don't pay me enough money so I can live"—I’ll cite one instance—a burly fellow came to me one day—he need, now we needed another inspector because one of them quit so he asked for the job and I gave it to him and he had a little experience and one of the sanitarians came one day and he says, "You know what your inspector is doing up at such and such slaughterhouse he's a buyer." Well he had only seen me once—he didn't know me very well so I thought I'd go up and see if it was true. I went up—instead of being on the kill floor watching the slaughtering like he was supposed to, he had a straw hat on and a long white coat and was in this little cubby hole—so I recognized him, he didn't recognize me. I went over to him and said, "If I had a load of pigs to sell, who would I see?" He says, "See me, I'm the buyer." Well I said, "I'm your boss—now you don't have a job." Well he hemmed quite a ruckus anyway. Finally I got that straightened. I got, fortunately, there was a Doctor Jackson who had worked for public health for the Ag. and Markets in Washington for years as Veterinarian and ah he was retired. He lived in Syracuse—people lived there—so I asked him if he'd come back to work for us. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: And ah first he said "No,” said, "I worked in Syracuse." Well he did eventually come back to work for us. But anyway we had a rendering plant in Syracuse that made an awful lot of smoke and bad odors and so forth and so the inspectors said, "We can't do a thing with them." So I always followed up inspection work and I went down to this particular rendering plane and I told them we had a lot of complaints and ah asked if they wouldn't stop it—they would do something to stop it but he didn't so I went back again about a couple months, I said, "Now if you don't stop it we’re going to have to close the plant," and he kind of smiled, said, "I'd like to see that."  "Well,” I said, "I don't think you would."  "Well what I mean,” he said, "I'd like to see you try it." Said, “Do you know who owns this plant?" I said, "I don't give a—"  “Well,” he said, Swift and Co owns it."  I said, "Well I've already arrested Swift and Company's men 2 or 3 times a year for bumping meat.” Now do you know what bumping means? They get federally inspected meat—they have a stamp on it - beet juice stamped. Circulars going up to Newark to an uninspected slaughterhouse and buying quarters of beef—bringing them down—bumping them against the one that was federally inspected—now you couldn't tell which one, both marks were smeared. Dan: You mean, you mean transferred from one carcass to the other? Dr. Sargent: Yeah and hang two together like this—just put the good one with the bad one and bump them together and this would come off on the bad one and you couldn't tell which was which so we arrested them for that and then another time they sold 1800 pounds of pork shoulders and shaved off the Federal mark and my inspector called on a Sunday morning, he says, “What'll I do?” I said, "Tell the storekeeper he has a choice of one of two things—one, he can pour kerosene on them in his store or out in the yard.” So he said he thinks he wants it done out in the yard so he had to do that but ah I'm glad. Dan: Pretty rough. Dr. Sargent: And the milk inspection was even worse, so when they had change of change of administration ah they didn't want me around anymore. Dan: How many years was now that you spent up there—you went there in 1941? Dr. Sargent: Well I was up there from ‘41 to ‘54. Dan: ‘54. Dr. Sargent: But part of the time I was with the State and part of the time as Health Officer. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: Well I wanted to go to the farm and work with the boy but I—my orchard wasn't developed to the point where I—I wanted to be the guy to solve the problems—let the boy run the farm but they hadn't reached that point—later it did, we were shipping 20,000 boxes of apples but then it didn't so I was mulling things over and ah Dr. Dickson, he's dead now, used to be here. Remember him?  Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: He was acting Health Officer—Dr. Tudor had left and we were at a meeting in Syracuse and Dickson said ah, "Well if you aren't going to stay in Syracuse, why don't you come down to Binghamton—we need somebody badly." Well I looked things over and came down. I think I better do something, I can't go to the farm, I’m too young to sit around and do nothing, so I came down and saw Kramer and he ah offered me the job and I took it. Dan: He was Mayor at that time? Dr. Sargent: Umhm. John Burns was his assistant. Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: Well we had some of the same problems as we had up there ah but ah it wasn't as bad. The thing that we did have down here—I came here in ‘54 and ‘56 had a bad outbreak of polio and I had quite a lot of experience in polio because the City Hospital in Syracuse and had a lot of cases up there—so we started a vaccination program here—we got excellent cooperation from everybody. We had two former school teachers who came in and offered their services as clerks at teen clinics—my wife went down to help them file away the records and all of our nurses, not exception, volunteered to work on our clinic teams. Every Monday and every Thursday night we had a polio clinic—vaccination clinics. We didn't use the—I never liked the, in fact I used Salk vaccine which you had to inject instead of a drop on sugar for this reason—Salk vaccine was a killed virus and would do no damage. Sabin vaccine was a live virus and had started as epidemics. In institutions, they would give it to kids and in the sewer system the live virus would come through and they'd get trouble. The Sabin never has done that so I stuck to polio Sabin vaccine. Dan: You stuck to Sabin? Dr. Sargent: Oh, No, no. Dan: To Salk. Dr. Sargent: Salk—I wouldn't touch the Sabin with a ten foot pole. Dan: Now which one is it you have on a lump of sugar? Dr. Sargent: Sabin. Dan: Sabin. Dr. Sargent: Salk is the one. Salk came out originally—it is a killed bacteria. Dan: Yeah—were you Health Officer at the time that they had that testing program? I think you were? Dr. Sargent: Sure. Dan: Where all of the ah ah participants—the children were vaccinated and they were vaccinated they didn't know whether they were getting the real vaccine or a placebo. Dr. Sargent: No I don't think I was here that time. Dan: You were never here then? Dr. Sargent: I probably. Dan: ‘Cause I know that my oldest daughter participated in that program—now she's 31 now and— Dr. Sargent: I think it must have come after we left because we vaccinated—oh gosh I forget how many but we used to do 15 to 1700 a night and nobody was barred. A third of our cases came from Pennsylvania and we had some we had one family came from Wales—we had some families from California and we never barred anybody because clinical disease doesn't know any boundaries for one thing. Dan: Right. Dr. Sargent: Another thing was I was under State aid—in other words the State paid half of my salary and half of all my nurses' salaries. All the city had to pay was one half of what it cost and all vaccine was paid for by the Red Cross so I didn't hesitate taking anybody. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: So we did that and ah we had oh so many requests from school people and ah people under unemployment for the vaccination records that people asked us—we had very complete records. In fact it stopped it—we haven't had a case since. So that was interesting and then—remember the salt? Dan: General Hospital, yes. Dr. Sargent: I don't like to— Dan: It's all right it's confidential. Dr. Sargent: I'll say this—I had a director of nurses and her assistant I had an agreement with them—one of them stayed there all day long watch that nurse—all day—the other would stay all night and watch her. Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: What we saw and learned—I asked the State Health Officer—I had no authority to do anything better—I asked the State Health authority we wished to be privileged—they wouldn't take away that person. Dan: They wouldn't? That made—that was nationwide publicity it got—Life magazine and everything. Yeah, that was a terrible thing. Dr. Sargent: Yeah, of course what happened—they disobeyed all regulations and the colored maid went down to the kitchen—instead of getting the sugar in the sugar barrel, she got into the salt barrel. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: They got the salt—it wouldn't have happened if they had helped me out but they wouldn't. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: Everywhere you turn you have to deal with (tarb) Dan: Umhm. Dr. Sargent: And sometimes if you get the cooperation of the community, you can get along very nicely. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Sargent: Ah Tom Corcoran, in Syracuse, was one of the nicest men I ever knew and he never turned me down on anything I wanted to do and when I wanted to stop the sale of New York dressed poultry ah I told him among other things I said, "These poultry people are putting water into the breasts of turkeys and freezing it so they'd weigh more but they aren't too careful and are infecting the turkeys and people who cook them take care of them—now I want to stop salmonella infection I've got to stop that too. Well he hardly believed me he told me afterwards he was taking his daughter up to Rochester to a party. Her boyfriend was with them—he was telling him this as a joke cause that's no joke, "That's my job, why I inject turkeys with it.” So Tom helped me in every way to bring this end about. It was very interesting but we did air pollution control. First we started out we hired a young lad with a tractor to mow all of the vacant lots in town—we asked to mow them all down. We mowed so to get rid of the ragweed and then we had the ah physician in town to cooperate with us to do pollen counts—published everything in the papers and ah I think our best bet was the centering our problems right in the central part of the city the 10 census tracts and our nurses concentrated their efforts there. When I went there, a nurse visited every home where there was a newborn baby, regardless of whether they got a million dollars or no money—so we stopped that. We had them visit people in 10 census tracts then we sent postcards to other people saying if you want the nurse, all you have to do is let us know. But it let the nurses concentrate their work in the 10 census tracts where our problems were and ah it had its effect very definitely and very interesting. Dan: How about the mortality rate as far as the infants were concerned—did that go down? Dr. Sargent: Yes it went down and then wasn't awfully high but it was higher we wanted. It’s always too high. Dan: Yeah, that’s true. Dr. Sargent: But the thing that concerned us the most in Syracuse ah was the sloppy way the inspectors were operating and the tuberculosis control program wasn't wanted at all and this salmonella infection thing in poultry gave us a lot of things to—in other words, in my field of work, there are plenty of problems to look for but sometimes it's difficult to get the authority to handle it. Dan: What year did you retire Doctor? Dr. Sargent: ‘63. Dan: ‘63 so outside of the ah few years you were in private practice, all your life has been devoted to public health service. Dr. Sargent: That’s right. Dan: And in your private practice days, I suppose you made house calls. Dr. Sargent: Uh absolutely—I was the local health officer. Dan: (Laughter) So what would you say would be the difference in the practice of medicine today as compared to when you first started out? Dr. Sargent: Please—don't. Dan: Please don't get you started, huh? (laughter) It's the age of specialization. Dr. Sargent: Well I could show you some—I've kept information every few days at Johns Hopkins and University of Vermont and so forth—publications and the older men I think are pleading, pleading so as to teach medicine. Pleading with them. This one fellow graduated at same time I did at Johns Hopkins—he had a letter in recent publications says, ''Why can't you go back to teaching medicine?" Dan: Yeah—wasn't it true though in your day too that you had your own pharmacy—no such thing as drugstores? Dr. Sargent: Well there was drug stores. Dan: There weren't too many of them though. Dr. Sargent: We dispensed a lot of medicine. Dan: Dispensed a lot of it yourself. Dr. Sargent: And we didn't have—I have a nephew who is the Vice President of (inaudible) Drug Company. They started, they were American boys and they went to London because they were the first ones to put powders in paper and wrap them up but these boys put them in custom made pills and they went to London to do that and were very successful so they came over here and started a branch station New York Burroughs Co. Well he went to work for them when he was a young pharmacist just out of Temple—he's now Vice President. His job is to fly to Switzerland where all this monkey business comes from through drugs—I don't have the faintest what it is today, I'm taking drugs I haven't the faintest idea what the devil they are—I don't think the Doctor knows either. But ah when there's something new they think is startling comes out. He thinks company policy goes over to Switzerland and talk and see if he thinks it's any good but I guess he's a pretty good pharmacist because he goes over and he twists an arm to find out really ‘cause my job depends on what I tell my people. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: So if he thinks it's good then he goes to London, where the headquarters really are for his offer and he gets their approval to go on with it. Then he flies to Washington to get approval down there to OK to make it—then he has to fly to his home office here and tell everything is OK to go ahead and make the pills. But ah he tells me—I asked him one day I said, "Why can't you do something so the Doctors know what they're giving their medicine—more about it," said, ''Why we spend a million dollars a year putting into every package of tablets we send out just exactly how we spend our money and how it comes out." Dan: You know I think the public today are getting so confused that every day it comes out in the paper that no matter what you're eating, soft drinks or anything else, it's causing cancer. Now I've got sugar myself and I 'm not supposed to eat sugar but I'm substituting saccharin—now they come out and say saccharin is going to cause cancer so what am I supposed to do—crawl in and cover up? (laughter). Dr. Sargent: Well this cancer thing is ah humm. Dan: Now what medical school did you go to Doctor? Dr. Sargent: University of Vermont. Dan: University of Vermont Medical School and the University of Vermont. Dr. Sargent: For pre-medical work. Dan: Uhhuh and how old are you now Doctor? Dr. Sargent: I was born in 1893 Dan: 1893. Dr. Sargent: 85 years old last January. Dan: And how many children do you have? Dr. Sargent: Two. Dan: Two—boy and a girl and the boy is up in Vermont. Dr. Sargent: No the boy is in Watertown—he and his wife have quite a busy ceramics business. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: And the girl lives in Fairport and teaches in East High School in Rochester. Dan: I see. Dr. Sargent: She's married and has three daughters and ah she has—I've asked her to quit many times. She has a class, I think they're idiots—they're assigned to her by the Courts—they can't get along in school or anything else and they kick them out of school so the court makes them go to our daughter's school. Well she's been hit in the face by them, she’s had her foot broken by stomping on her feet. Dan: My God. Dr. Sargent: But she—I think she enjoys it because she gets hold of these—most, a lot of them are colored and she says she had one big bruiser the other day, I think 18 or 19 years old and ah he threatened to haul off and paste her—if he did he might have killed her but ah she likes it because she thinks that's worthwhile. All of them can't read a thing as high as 18, 19 years old—that's about the limit. So whatever she does is clear gain and she has to visit their homes and ah she thoroughly enjoys her work—she's going to retire in June. Dan: That is good—so you never got the farm up in Vermont with the apple orchard? Dr. Sargent: No, no so sold it—no we sold it ah my wife, my son's wife came from Syracuse and she got kind of homesick up there in the country—she lived there 16 years. She wanted to go back to Syracuse so they left for Syracuse and I sold the farm but ah it got to be a very productive farm—sold 20,000 boxes of apples a year. Dan: Gee. Dr. Sargent: And they—the man we sold it to told me 1st summer, told me, "I was offered twice what I paid for it." Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Sargent: And ah it's 150 acres and said for 70 acres he was offered $100,000 no buildings, but it is a very good productive orchard. But the kids, my wife didn't want to stay there and I'm too old to handle it. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Sargent: Sold it. Dan: Have you received any awards in your work through the years Doctor? Dr. Sargent: Yes, I've got one from Syracuse, honorary, ah fraternity from Syracuse School of Medicine, Maxwell School in Citizenship and I'm an honorary come out and I’ll show you (goes out on side porch and shows Dan diplomas) Dan: Is there anything else you'd like to tell me? Dr. Sargent: If you shut that off, I'll tell you. (meaning tape recorder) Dan: Ah well for the record I'll shut it off, sure but I mean is there anything else that you can think of as far as your career is concerned before I shut it off? Dr. Sargent: Yes I had some wonderful opportunities. In the State of Oregon, when I was doing syphilis control work in Rockwell County. State Health Commission asked me to go to New York City at the annual meeting for the entire country and sell our program, with our nurses and all—so what we were doing. Twenty-three States asked for our records and so forth and the State of Oregon asked me to come there. They said they'd give me a month’s salary—they'd pay all my expenses and so forth if I'd come up and set up a program there. They wouldn't let me go because I was—had nobody to replace me and ah they called Remington Rand—the stinkers patented my records and one day six or eight months afterwards, a young lad came into my office—spread out some records looked very familiar to me and he says, "Of course you can use these all you want to," says, "I am using it," says, "You can't let anybody else use it—they're ours—they're patented." They patented my own records. Dan: (Laughter) My God. Well would you like me to play this back for you Doctor? Dr. Sargent: No. Dan: No. Dr. Sargent: No. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. Clealand A. Sargent Subject The topic of the resource Sargent, Clealand A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Richford (Vt.); University of Vermont; Orwell (Vt.); Physicians -- Interviews; Health officers -- Interviews; Syracuse (N.Y.); Food adulteration and inspection; Vaccination Description An account of the resource Dr. Clealand A. Sargent speaks about his upbringing in Richford, Vermont, premedical and medical education at the University of Vermont, and his private practice in Orwell, Vermont and why he had to give it up. He discusses entering the public health field, relating his experiences with different diseases and control programs in states in which he was a health officer. He also describes taking advanced courses at Johns Hopkins Medical School and teaching classes at various New York universities, and notes the differences in medical practices from the start of his career to the current day. He discusses his position and experiences as the Health Commissioner in Syracuse, NY. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 52A ; Recording 52B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sargent, Clealand A. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-26 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:49 Minutes ; 17:02 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7fcf306abba8625049aecb011e883118.mp3 1db667c6348d5691415fdc3994fda77b https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dd6195e9c010d10fcbb8bc10a2ed354d.mp3 accd3d49c918dd10514dfe25dfc6e6eb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed McNamara, Regis C. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:54 Minutes ; 14:35 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55981">Interview with Regis C. McNamara</a> Subject LCSH McNamara, Regis C. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); University of Notre Dame; University of Notre Dame -- Football; Rockne, Knute, 1888-1931; World War--1939-1945; Engineers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; International Business Machines Corporation; Binghamton City Engineer Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Regis C. McNamara Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 27 April 1978 Dan: OK, Reggie, would you start out telling me about your life and experiences and working experiences in the community starting with your date and place of birth? Reggie: Well I was born in ah Pittsburgh, PA, February 2nd, 1908 and ah I lived, I lived there very shortly and I came to ah Binghamton, NY, during ah the First World War, about 1918 and ah all my preliminary education was in the Binghamton School system—I went to Thomas Jefferson School, grade school, and Binghamton Central High School and ah— Dan: Pardon me. [checks tape recorder] OK, go ahead. Reggie: I played ah ah I played ah football for the Binghamton Central High School and then from Central High School, I went to the University of Notre Dame and ah at that time ah Notre Dame had a ah worldwide reputation as a ah football school as well as a good educational school and I, I matriculated at the University of Notre Dame ah I can remember I paid ah my first year’s tuition out there which took care of my board, room and tuition was $800. I’d earned the $800 ah myself ah working as a newsboy for the Binghamton Press and as workin summers on various laboring jobs. Laboring jobs were mostly to keep in shape for football, were in the fall seasons. Ah while at Notre Dame ah my course was, I took up Civil Engineering and ah by playing football at Notre Dame, I played in two National Championships football teams in 1929 and 1930—that was under Knute Rockne. Dan: And who were some of your teammates, Reggie? Reggie: Ah the team ah some of my teammates were ah ah Frank Carrideo— Dan: Right. Reggie: —who was ah an All American and was one of the ah ah best ah place kickers and punters that I've ever seen in my career of watching football. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: Better than professional football like and ah I don't say that just because ah I knew Frank but for a long time in professional football they never believed in kicking out of bounds. Now, professional football has got back to kicking out of bounds but Carrideo had perfected it while he was at Notre Dame and he was a real professional when it came to kicking the ball out of bounds. Ah Marchie Swartz was another ah ah one of my players on that team. Marty Brill who was the ah—Swartz was the left halfback and Brill was the right halfback and ah we had a center was Tim Monahan and we had a couple of ends by the name of Cord and ah Marty Beezy and ah then ah I also played with what they called the shock troops during those days. Rockne had introduced the shock troops to football which was something new ah to football. The idea of the shock troops was that they would go in and play the first half, the shock troops, and try and wear down the opposition—then the other team would come in and try to score on the opposition. The shock troops were back in the third quarter with and the same idea in mind was to wear them down and then the other team would come in the fourth quarter with the hopes of scoring. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And it worked successfully for ah two seasons because we were National Championship in 1929 and 1930. Dan: Uh huh—they didn't have the platoon system at that time? Reggie: No, there was no platoon system, you played ah both ways. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: You played on offense and defense. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah one of the things that ah I really believed in those days and I think they should change in the ah back to it and that was the leather helmet. The ah leather helmet was safe and it gave you plenty of protection to any blows to the head.  Dan: Umum. Reggie: As a matter of fact, in those days, they used to allow the opponents to hit you on the head. Today you can't hit your opponent on the—it's been ruled out and still they have these ah plastic helmets which do more damage than do good. The point of ah the opponents use the plastic helmets to ah to hit your opponent on the arms or legs or in the stomach and oftentimes you can bruise a muscle that would put a player out for maybe a month or two or even break an arm or so with a plastic helmet and to me I see no reason why they should use a plastic helmet today, ah. Dan: What position did you play, Reggie? Reggie: I played left tackle. Dan: Left tackle. Reggie: Left tackle and ah the other player that played right tackle on the shock troops was Frank Leahy, who later became ah the coach of Notre Dame and was the second coach ah in the history of football that had a record similar to Rockne's. Rockne, as far as I'M concerned and it maybe ah it may be a football record—Rockne was the first coach and then I believe Leahy was the second, had the best record in football. I'm not sure of that but ah that's my recollection remembrance ah Frank was ah ah a fella that got hurt very easily. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: He ah I believe his first year at Notre Dame he was a center and he ah got hurt—he got hurt and was out most of the season and when he played ah tackle, he got hurt too and ah ah and when his football days were over, he spent some time at Mayo Clinic with Rockne and they were both in the hospital at the same time and ah I believe that’s where Leahy got the desire to become a coach and also got a lot of Rockne's ah secrets. Dan: Now Rockne died in 1931. Reggie: It was 1931. Dan: 31. Reggie: Yeah when Rock— Dan: And who succeeded him? Reggie: Hunk Anderson. Dan: Hunk Anderson. Reggie: Succeeded Rockne—Hunk at the time was the ah was the ah was one of the assistant coaches that coached the line. Dan: I see. Reggie: And then he succeeded Rockne and they had another player there—was a backfield coach, Jack Sheven, who was later killed in the World War II ah Jack was a great player and also a great coach at Notre Dame. Dan: Uh huh—what kind of a man was Rockne, personally? Reggie: Rock was a, he was, he was a nice guy to ah, ah to meet. Matter of fact everybody, everybody liked him when they met him but he was a real tough man when it came to teaching young guys on the football team—in other words you were only out there for maybe an hour and a half or two hours practicing and it was all, all work—there was no such thing as play—it was all work. Dan: Now you spoke of your first year—it cost you $800 room and board, did they have such a thing as scholarships in those days? Reggie: They had scholarships in those days but not, not too many. I can remember ah—I didn't have a scholarship when I went out there—I went out there because I heard of Notre Dame's reputation—well I thought I'd take a chance. Dan: I see. Reggie: And ah the first day when we were supposed to report to football, it was on a Sunday and to get our uniforms and so I think there was something like ah a thousand guys in line to get a football suit and ah I finally, I was, was told to get over there early and ah I was about 50th in line and ah—No, I was about 10th in line. I, I and then the coach, Rockne, came over with the Freshman football coach and ah he said, now ah our Freshman football coach that year was Bo Poliski—he had been a tackle on the Notre Dame team the previous year and he told Bo, he says, “Bo, you go up and down this line and pick out some fellas you think can ah make your Freshman football," and ah Rockne picked out one guy himself and says, "Some guys like this," and then ah Bo started to ah pick the men out and ah there must have been 50 guys in the next line. Bo finally picked me out—I think that's the only way I got a uniform because he picked me out. Dan: Yeah—you played football all four years you were there? Reggie: Ah yes, yes I did—I played Freshman and my 3 years as Sophomore, Junior and Senior, then I was later—ah I didn't graduate when I was supposed to in '32 so I had an extra year and ah I was, I helped coach the Freshman team out there. We ah we taught, we had in those days—the Freshmen used to play just one game—it’s like a reward for them ah efforts of being banged around by the Varsity all year long. Today I think they do play a schedule—in those days, they just played the one game. Dan: Umum. Now after your graduation from Notre Dame, where did you go, Reggie? Reggie: Well ah I went ah, my father was living in Pittsburgh at the time and I went home to Pittsburgh. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And ah that was in 1932, ‘33, 1933 and that was at the height of the Depression and ah I had no, I had no job or anything—no prospects of getting any job ah but at about that time the ah the professional team of the Pittsburgh Steelers was formed and ah I ah I had a tryout with the Steelers. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah I didn't, I didn't make the team but—[Wife reminds him of 3 o'clock appointment]—I didn't, I didn't make the team but ah ah I remember the salaries that they paid. They used to pay $50 a game. If you had made it, of course you'd get paid $50 a game and they had I think they had three stars on the team that were under contract—what they got I don't know but the rest of the fellows, it was $50 a game. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And ah course today the Pittsburgh Steelers is quite a team. Dan: Oh they are, they are. Reggie: But ah then I, I as I say, I couldn't, I couldn't get ah work in Pittsburgh, I finally came back to Binghamton and my first job was ah working for ah IBM and ah as I say I was a graduate engineer from the University of Notre Dame. I couldn't get a job as an engineer and there was a, I was able to ah talk my way in with the assistance of some friends and I got a job with IBM for $20, or what did I tell you I was getting. Dan: 50, 40 or 50. Reggie: Ah let’s see now, $2.00, I was getting $2 an hour, that was it. Dan: $2.00 an hour. Reggie: $2.00 an hour, yeah I think that’s what I got, I think. Dan: Was it a forty hour week? Reggie: Yes it was a forty hour week. Dan: So you were getting $80 a week? Reggie: Something like that. Dan: Yeah—that was what year, about '34 or '35, Reggie? Reggie: Ah I think it was around '34. Dan: '34. Reggie: ‘34 or ‘5. Dan: Was—what job did you do down there? Reggie: Oh I was what you call a pickup boy—I picked up material, putting them on a truck and delivering to one department and delivering them to another department. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Reggie: It wasn't my profession as an engineer. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: Well I finally the ah I got a job in the ah the New York State Department at Chenango Valley State Park as an engineer.  Dan: What year was that? Reggie: That was about 1935, I believe. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: I worked along with the CCC boys. Dan: Oh yes. Reggie: Teaching them surveying and then also doing design work for the Parks Department and then ah after that ah I would ah—I'd some work for the Army engineers and then after that I worked for the City of Binghamton. Dan: What year did you start with the City? Reggie: Ah I think it was 1922 that I first started. Dan: Ah, no. Reggie: Oh wait a minute, not ‘22 ah was just before the War, 1942. Dan: 1942. Reggie: 1942, yeah—I worked for the City as Deputy City Engineer and then ah later on I became the City Engineer. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And I was 16 years City Engineer of the City of Binghamton. Dan: Umum. Now all told how many years were you with the City? Reggie: I think it totaled up something like 22 years. Dan: 22 years. Reggie: 22 years I was with the City. Dan: Uh huh. Did you go into Service at all? Reggie: Yes, ah ah I left the, I left the City when I was Deputy City Engineer to ah join the Navy and ah I took my indoctrination at Harvard University and ah I was assigned to Corpus Christi ah flying aviation field and ah from there I ah, I, I wasn't in what they call a construction battalion at that time but later joined up with the construction battalions and from there ah from Corpus Christi I was sent overseas as a Lieutenant in charge of what they call a CBMU, that's a Construction Battalion Maintenance Unit, that was five officers and 200 men and ah I was the Commanding Officer, and I spent time in the Pacific area in Wallace Island and ah ah British Samoa. Then after I came out of the Pacific, I spent time with ah ah down in New Orleans ah as a Public Works officer down there. Dan: Umum. Reggie: And then I was honorably discharged and ah I came back to Binghamton and ah I started a consulting engineering business and I worked at that for a while and then I was ah I became a City Engineer. Dan: City Engineer. Reggie: City Engineer of the City of Binghamton. Dan: Uh huh, but you were an assistant at first—right? Reggie: I was the Deputy City Engineer. Dan: Deputy. Reggie: Yes. Dan: Uh huh and that was prior to the War and right after—you got a leave of absence to enter the War? Reggie: That’s right, yeah. Dan: OK, yeah, and what was your salary starting out as a Deputy, Reggie, if it's not too personal? Reggie: No, it's not too personal. I'm trying to think ah it wasn't very much ah it seems like it was around maybe $8000 a year, something like that. Dan: And then as a Civil Engineer at the time of your retirement, what had it gone to? Reggie: Well ah as a even as City Engineer I think I only made ah as high as 12 or $13,000. Dan: Is that right? Now was this a Civil Service position? Reggie: No. Dan: You didn't have to take— Regrie: No it was an appointive position. Dan: And you were appointed by who? Reggie: I was appointed by Don Kramer who was the Mayor at that time. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: And I think that was in 19, 1955, I believe. Dan: 1955 and you retired—what year? Reggie: Ah well I didn't retire—I was the ah the ah opposition party that had control of ah City Hall I think it was in 1960. That would make it about 16 years anyhow or ‘66, something like that, ‘66, 1966 and ah they appointed their Engineer so then I went back to my consulting engineering business. Dan: I see, yeah. Reggie: And then I worked at that for a while and from there I ah I had various positions ah with the New York State—I worked in the New York State Office of General Service. I worked on the, as an engineer, on the Municipal or State Office building over here in the center of Binghamton and from there I ah worked on various ah ah buildings like the new Post Office building—I worked for an architect on that and then I worked on for the Broome ah up here on Glenwood Avenue. Dan: Oh yeah, the retarded to the Broome Developmental Center. Reggie: No. Dan: Or was it BOCES? Reggie: No not BOCES, it’s the school for the— Dan: The retarded. Reggie: The retarded children. Dan: Yeah—that's Broome Developmental. Reggie: Oh is that what it is? Dan: Yeah. Reggie: Well I worked on that ah for one of the contractors I guess and then later after that I worked for the New York State Housing and Community Development ah ah as a Code Engineer. Dan: I see—did you work in conjunction with Dorothy Titchner at all? Reggie: No. Dan: You didn't? Reggie: No. Dan: Because she was the Housing Authority. Reggie: She was the Housing Authority and ah no my, you see my area working for the housing ah people were in the Code Sections. Dan: Code Sections. Reggie: Yes and I used to travel the ah western section of New York State to visit building inspectors to ah answer any questions they may have concerning the New York State building code. Dan: I see. Reggie: And then after that I ah, I retired. Dan: Uh huh—that was in what year would you say? Reggie: Well let’s see about 3 years now ah. Dan: 3 years—'75. Reggie: About '75. Dan: Yeah but as a civil engineer, what was your duties—the City Engineer? Reggie: Well as City Engineer you were responsible ah to see ah that the streets were properly paved, new sewers were put in ah repairs of ah of ah structures and also the building of new structures, the letting of contracts for incinerators, water filtration plants, sewage disposal plants. D an: Uh huh so you worked probably with ah Charlie Costello. Reggie: No ah ah at that time the Water Superintendent was Cy Carmen. Dan: Oh is that right? Reggie: Yeah Cy Carmen was the Water Superintendent and I worked a lot with Cy. Dan: I see. Reggie: But ah— Dan: Did you have anything to do with the downtown urban renewal? Reggie: Oh yes ah as one of the officers in the City Administration ah the City Engineer was on the ah board—it was called the Urban Renewal Board and there was the City Engineer, the Mayor first, the Mayor was the chairman and the City Engineer, the Corporation Counsel, the Comptroller and ah I believe there was one other—there was 5 altogether that was on that board and ah we had to, we had to make certain decisions for urban renewal and ah I remember at the time ah the ah, ah the regional man, I can't remember his name now, he wanted me to take over the urban renewal and I, I turned it down. I didn't want any part of it although some engineers in other cities throughout the State did have both jobs—the City Engineer and also the Head of the Urban Renewal. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: I think Bill Green was the one that got the job—he took it over as Head of Urban Renewal. Dan: Yeah but you were in office when the ah Urban Renewal built the new Post Office. Reggie: Ah. Dan: That is the Brandywine Highway and new Post Office and all of that. Reggie: Well I was in office when all the ah I would say a great, a great ah majority of the construction was done during my 16 years. The arterial highways were all built during that time, ah the new Water Works was built, incinerator was built, the sewage disposal plant was built, the intercepting sewers were all built during my time as we built the ah we built a couple—we built one fire station, we built the Ely Park ah clubhouse up there so ah I remember it was a very active building time. Dan: It was because since then, it has been dormant. Reggie: “It has been dormant,” is correct. Dan: And what do you think of the prospects of Mondev—do you think that's going to go down the tube? Reggie: I really believe so. Dan: You really believe so. Reggie: I believe so, I think. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: I ah I don't think Mondev is sincere and ah the reason I say that is because ah Mondev has been trying to get every possible inch that they can and of course if I was in Mondev's shoes and was a builder, I would ah maybe do the same thing because they are trying to get every possible thing that they can get. Dan: Yeah. Reggie: And I think it's about time the City of Binghamton realizes that is all they're interested in and if they don't get everything that they want they'll just drop it like a hot potato. Dan: Well of course they have diminished the plans to the extent now that it doesn't make much difference whether they take it or leave it. Reggie: That's correct, that's correct. Dan: Of course in the meantime all the business has gone out to the Mall. Reggie: Right, right. Dan: Ah Reggie you mentioned that you were born in Pennsylvania. Reggie: Pittsburgh, PA. Dan: Pittsburgh, PA, and you came here in 1918 and for what reason did you come to Binghamton? Reggie: Well my father was connected with ah ah a tire company. Dan: Oh I see. Reggie: He ah it started out in Gallipos, Ohio, this tire company, and then it moved to Binghamton—it was called Achilles Rubber and Tire Company—it was located at the north end of Floral Avenue. Dan: Uh huh. Reggie: Matter of fact it was the first tire company in the world or in the country that guaranteed their tire to go 10,000 miles. (laughter). Dan: So, so he stayed here then. Reggie: He stayed in Binghamton. Dan: And then you went, you went to Central and all your grammar school and everything. Reggie: Right. Dan: Your education was here in Binghamton. OK and do you belong to any clubs at all Reggie? Reggie: Yes I belong to the New York State Professional Engineers ah Society and also belong to the Knights of Columbus and of course the Notre Dame Alumni and also the Notre Dame Monogram Club. Dan: Umum. Reggie: I think that’s about the extent. Dan: That’s about the extent and you're married and how many children? Reggie: Married and I had two boys ah my youngest son was ah killed in an automobile accident and my oldest boy, John, is a professor at the University of Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. Dan: I see. Reggie: He's a clinical psychologist. Dan: Oh. Reggie: Doctor of Clinical Psychologist. Dan: Wonderful, wonderful, fine and you had your first grandchild this ah— Reggie: Just ah, let’s see, just a couple of weeks ago. Dan: Just a couple of weeks ago. (laughter). OK now is there anything else you would like to include in this interview Reggie before I terminate it? Reggie: No I don't think so. Dan: I think you have covered your working experiences quite well. Reggie: Yes I think I have. Dan: Uh huh but you were in office during the height of the building ah development of downtown. Reggie: Right, right. Dan: And since you left, why, it's and it was a politically appointed position. Reggie: I was, yeah, uh huh. Dan: OK fine—well thank you very much Reggie—would you like me to play this back for you? [Pause] Dan: Reggie you mentioned you wanted to make some corrections in the interview especially starting now with the starting salary you got when you first went to IBM. Reggie: Yes ah I mentioned I got $2.00 an hour well that was a mistake, I got 20 cents an hour at that time. Dan: OK and then you ah at Notre Dame. Re ie: Yes the other player I would like to mention I played with out at Notre Dame was ah ah Jumping Joe Savoldi who was an All American at Notre Dame and later he played with the Chicago Bears as a football player and then after that he went into wrestling and became the World's heavyweight champion wrestler and ah he defeated ah Strangler Lewis for the championship and that ah and in those days ah that was a regular championship match—as you know today wrestling is more of a— Dan: —a show. Reggie: —a show more than anything else but not in those days, they were championship matches. Dan: Right, right. Thank you Reggie. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Date of Interview 1978-04-27 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Regis C. McNamara Subject The topic of the resource McNamara, Regis C. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); University of Notre Dame; University of Notre Dame -- Football; Rockne, Knute, 1888-1931; World War--1939-1945; Engineers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees -- Interviews; International Business Machines Corporation; Binghamton City Engineer Description An account of the resource Regis C. McNamara talks about his education at the University of <a href="http://www.nd.edu">Notre Dame</a> and playing football under Knute Rockne.  During World War II he was a Lieutenant in the Construction Battalion Maintenance Unit. He worked for IBM and then as an engineer for New York State at Chenango Valley Park. He held the position of Deputy City Engineer for Binghamton before being appointed City Engineer by the then-mayor of Binghamton, Donald Kramer. He later held various positions with the State of New York and also as a private consultant. He discusses construction projects he worked on, such as, the Brandywine Highway, post office, a sewage disposal plant and a new water plant. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 44A ; Recording 44B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource McNamara, Regis C. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-27 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 35:54 Minutes ; 14:35 Minutes