74 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dad67ff6a8ab45eb55c2dfdc9160b72c.jpeg 3e5c2db4b3005940152cfcee0ca5b7e8 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1c387b9a74ccc054b9c304eda30d3b95.mp3 6c1cef810302b330b1594ad513b1a8b8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kurdish Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource In 2011, Binghamton University Libraries received the donation of the Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library and Museum Collection. The acquisition opened a dialog with the local Kurdish community in Binghamton, N.Y., which led to the creation of the Kurdish Oral History Project. These interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Kurdish culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Kurdistan. This growing collection holds interviews in English and/or Kurdish with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Kurdistan. The interviewees share remarkable stories of their migration, their persecution in Kurdistan, the resilience of their Kurdish identity in assimilating into the host culture, and the ties they maintain with their homeland in diaspora.<a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/sustain"></a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/76">Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library & Museum Collection Finding Aid</a> Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js) This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 15 April 2013 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Erdem Ilter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Halima Taha Language Kurdish Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format Audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Halima Taha https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/02cbf8029f4e475b0e1345450b2bcd14.mp3 f031159e3ee00a4e26ec44bbbe465bc9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kurdish Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource In 2011, Binghamton University Libraries received the donation of the Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library and Museum Collection. The acquisition opened a dialog with the local Kurdish community in Binghamton, N.Y., which led to the creation of the Kurdish Oral History Project. These interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Kurdish culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Kurdistan. This growing collection holds interviews in English and/or Kurdish with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Kurdistan. The interviewees share remarkable stories of their migration, their persecution in Kurdistan, the resilience of their Kurdish identity in assimilating into the host culture, and the ties they maintain with their homeland in diaspora.<a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/sustain"></a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/76">Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library & Museum Collection Finding Aid</a> Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js) This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 25 May 2013 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Erdem Ilter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Halima Zebari Language Kurdish Digital Publisher Binghamton University Digital Format Audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Halima Zebari https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/21aba41edbd6083cdabbd1e9de35a5f7.mp3 6dc71747fd45b780b50d04ec13a399d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Johnson, Harmon; Johnson, Harold Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-31 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:31 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55954">Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson</a> Subject LCSH Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Harmon and Harold Johnson Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 31 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Harmon and Harold Johnson on Airport Road in Chenango Bridge, and the date is the thirty-first of January, 1978. Now, you Johnson brothers have operated the Chenango Bridge Airport since the mid-thirties, and we'd like to know a little something about the history of the operation or any remembrances that you have which you'd like to put down on this tape. So who wants to start first? Harmon: I'll say that I got the flying bug in about 1930. I went for a ride in a an old Tri-motor Ford at the old Bennett Airport, and from then on decided flying was for me and a I saved my money and in 1932 learned to fly with Ed Link at the old Bennett Airport. He had a school there, I soloed out in about the first of May and got a private license in June. At that time it only took ten hours to get a license and the inspector never rode with you. He stood on the ground and watched you. I think he was afraid to ride with you. We didn't have that much time. Wanda: [laughter] That's funny. Harmon: Ah, only a joke, I guess, but, ah…they didn't ride with you. They stood on the ground and watched you. After that I flew along with Ed's airplane and got a limited commercial license, and then a couple of years later Harold and I went—my brother and I went in together and bought an airplane, and we brought it up to the Chenango Bridge Airport. There we carried a lot of passengers. Everybody wanted to ride, and we'd take 'em. I guess a dollar a head. Two at a time. They had the Italian field day over here at the old airport and when they had that these people would come from all over—like a big fair. We'd carry a lot of people—just ride around the field. Wanda: Italian field day here, at this airport? Harmon: Yeah. Umhmm. Harold: They'd have them across the river sometimes, too— Harmon: After that. Harold: —in the pasture there. It was like an island over there they used to have. Wanda: So then, Harold. You started to…fly? Harold: Yeah, I learned to fly on the old American Eagle biplane that we bought together in partnership. My dad helped us out. We didn't have money enough to buy it, so we—the three of us went in. Gave him his money back when we sold it. Harmon: Well I'd say this. We paid $600.00 for it, which was a lot of money then. Harold: I'd forgotten what we paid for it. Harmon: $600.00. Two hundred apiece. Harold: I learned to fly in that and soloed it, and took a private flight test. And I—the inspector came in to Endicott and I went down to take the flight test on that airplane to get a private license and I came in and he was riding with me. He thought I was too high to shoot for a spot-landing on the airport. He grabbed it away from me and slipped it. And I had to put the power right back on, and drag it in because it was gonna hit short of the field, you know. The inspector did that. I always remember that. He slipped it too much. It was down a hundred feet short of the end of the runway if I hadn't dragged it down, but he just laughed. He didn't say nothing. Gave me my license. I met that guy in Washington. Down there when I was flying in there for some—probably E.J. or somebody at Washington International Airport, and the guy came walking out and wanted to know if I was Johnson from Binghamton and talked with me for a while. He was one of the wheels in the F.A.A. at that time. Wanda: Oh, he went up the line. Harold: He's probably retired by now. Maybe he's dead, I don't know, but that was a good many years ago. I got the—I went about a year using a private license. I got the transport in ‘37. That was after we had our C-3 Aeronca. I took that to Ithaca for my transport license. Wanda: Oh yes, we want to put in here about some of the a—different planes that you've handled and owned and so forth here at Chenango Bridge. Harmon: We started out with the old Eagle and we sold that. Or Harold started out, actually—I'll take that back. After we sold the Eagle you bought the C-3 Aeronca,didn't you? Harold: The old Razorback. Harmon: On your own. I didn't have any money. Harold: That was about a 1930 or '31 model airplane. Harmon: And didn't have it any length of time at all and lost it in the fire over here—it burned up. Harold: Probably six months or something like that. Harmon: Yeah, we lost it. And then we went back together and Jesse Haskell, who was the owner of the airport, said, “If someone wants to fly, I'll build them a hangar.” So he knocked together a little 2x4 hangar out there—a cheap thing. Harold: For one airplane. Cheap. Harmon: For one little airplane. Wanda: Oh. Harmon: And nailed some contact supports together and that's—about what it was, a real cheap-built thing. And we started out then teaching students to fly on our C-3 Aeronca. Later on, we got the Aeronca dealership for the Aeronca K, which wasn't much of an airplane. And they changed over in a couple of years and came out with the Aeronca, what they called the Aeronca Chief, which was a good little airplane in its day. It was hard to beat. It was very comfortable riding, very quiet, and good performance for the horsepower that was on it. Wanda: And you paid how much for the first Aeronca Chief? Harmon: First Aeronca Chief was right around fifteen hundred—fifteen-fifty or something like that, if I recall. Wanda: And what are they now? Harmon: Today if that airplane was built, being built today, would be right around $10,000.00, just about. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Maybe even more than that. Maybe twelve? Wanda: So you had dealerships with the Aeronca and the—what's the other one? Harmon: Piper. Wanda: Piper. And then a—how about the students and the teaching part of it? You both were—have been instructors all this time. Harmon: Yes. We got commercial licenses that you have to have to have an instructor's rating and got our instructor's rating as we went along. And, uh, taught for many years. Seems like we always had about all the students we could carry. And I worked a lot of the time at another job, and was always kept pretty busy. Harold: Before we built that office building that's there now, we had a little shack out in back of there for an office. It had a phone in it and a little stove in it and a desk in it and Doris worked there. But we had appointments so far ahead that... There was so many students wanted to fly. You couldn't take care of them, you know. If you wanted a half-hour on a weekend you'd have to book it at least two weeks ahead. To get in a half-hour lesson. Harmon: And the weather was against us too, of course. We couldn't fly students when the weather was bad, and this really pushed them in together and— Harold: Them old airplanes was awful light, you know. You couldn't fly with very much wind with them, with a student. They flobbed around a lot. They was real light airplanes. Wanda: I want to say I admire you for flying with students anyway. There's a certain amount of risk involved there, isn't there? Harmon: Oh there's bound to be. Even if you don't get rattled, and stay with it while you're in trouble. Wanda: And this was mostly during, after the War that you were so busy? Harmon: Yes. Before the War and right up through the War and on beyond the end of it. And then as the economy—after the War everything let down, if you remember right, and— Harold: About '48 it started lettin'— Harmon: '48 it gradually went down. About '50 it was really bad and so I left. I couldn't make a living anymore and I left and went in industry and stayed there until I retired. And we ran the airport as a sideline after Harold left, about 1957 or '58. I continued on with three airplanes. Two Tri-pacers and an Aeronca Champ and it got too much for me. As I stayed and my duties got greater and greater and I got into supervision and I just couldn't handle so much. And I was getting older, too. So I sold one airplane after another and finally wound up with just one airplane that I've run now for the last ten or twelve years. And now I'm down to no students at all and my own airplane. I keep still, a lot of other people's airplanes. Still run the airplane, airport. Mow a lot of grass and plow an awful lot of snow—boy. For nothing, I guess. Wanda: And Harold, you, you tell a little about when you—a—flew for Endicott-Johnson. Harold: Yes. After things got quiet here, in order to help out, I, I flew for G.A.F. for about four or five years. That was just on a monthly retainer. I'd fly when they wanted me to. Sometimes I didn't hear from them for a month and then sometimes I'd make a trip to California and back with their airplane. They had two—a Beach Bonanza and a 180-Cessna. At other times they had Tri-pacers, different things I flew for them, but they kept those two for a long time. Then E.J.’s—Asa Dodge was the pilot for E.J.’s. Wanda: Asa Dodge? Harold: Yeah, and we knew him well—in fact I'd given him some dual years ago. And he was a—he'd been flying for several years for E.J.’s different airplanes. They bought a brand new Aero-Commander-680 with $20,000.00 worth of electronic gear in it. In them days, that was a lot. And they wanted to have two pilots. So I was, I left G.A.F. and went to work for them full time. Wanda: And you're a—are you teaching now at all? Harold: Hmm? Wanda: Are you teaching now at all? Harold: No. I haven't done any flying in ten years. Wanda: ls that a fact? Harmon: I've told him, "Hey, come around and fly my Tri-pacer,” but [he] don't want to do it. Harold: If I could afford a nice twin-engine airplane like a new Aztec or something like that for myself, and afford to operate it, I'd have one and fly it. Wanda: Yes. Harold: But, ah…I'm not much interested in flying little machines around locally. I did that too much. Many thousands of hours of it. Wanda: How many hours do you suppose you, both of you have got logged in this? Harold: I don't know. Got twenty-some thousand—I don't know what it was. Harmon: I have logged around ten-thousand and have flown probably many more than that I never logged. Wanda: Yes. Harmon: For years, I never bothered with log. Too much of a nuisance to make out a log book, I guess. At the end of the day you're tired out, 'n’ you go home…forget it. Harold: Yes, for the first ten-thousand I logged most all the time. Where if I didn't, my wife did it for me. She kept it up, you know.Then hit and miss. When I'd work for E.J.’s we had to—we had time to go to the airplanes, and the same way with G.A.F., they had to have the time, you know, but just—flyin' over here and half the time I didn't bother to log it. Wanda: And, and you've always done your, your own maintenance on these planes? Harmon: Pretty much, yes. Harold: When we weren't flying in the wintertime that's how we got by. We used to build airplanes for other people. We used to build wrecks, and overhaul the engines, fix our own up too, during the wintertime get 'em ready for to keep them during the summer, you know? That was the idea. We had a heated shop, heated to a certain extent, enough so that we could work in it you know.We'd have sometimes two or three airplanes torn apart. I remember one guy that bought a wrecked airplane. He bought pieces here and there. Remember Eddie Walker? Harmon: Yeah. Harold: He made an airplane out of it—and he flew it away. There was some pieces gone. I remember splicing wood spars that was broke right off—splice 'em and glue 'em, you know, clear 'em all up, get them inspected—flew 'em that way. We had the tail end off one airplane, and the front end off another, but as long as we could get 'em and make 'em fly— Harmon: The F.A.A. came in, you know. We had to take the airplane to the F.A.A. inspector and have it inspected by them. And they would approve it— Harold: They had to inspect it before, before it was covered, though, you know. Inside and then afterwards and— Harmon: We'd have to contact them, and they came here to the airport and checked—looked them over, and OK, and then we could cover them. Wanda: Mmm. There's probably a lot more rules and regulations than a—when you first started out. Harmon: Oh, it's terrible anymore. Wanda: Anything interesting there? Harmon: Anymore there's so many rules and regulations that the F.A.A. themselves don't know. They gotta go get the book and get it out and read the book on it. You couldn’t possibly remember them all. No way. It's got to be the most complicated thing that ever was, in my book. Harold: In fact, now I'm miles behind on the regulations. I don't even try to keep up with them. After ten years, the heck with it. Harmon: I'm sure a lot of it I'm not up on, but I, I go to school every two years ah—to a refresher—three days—24 hours of classroom and get my instructor's rating renewed and that—updates me again, to a certain extent, but I guess nobody can remember all the regs that you've got today. Harold: Requirements for a license have changed a tremendous amount since we learned to fly. Wanda: What were the requirements when you first flew? Harmon: In fact, that only—we had to have ten hours to be able to fly around the patch and that was it. Harold: You could carry passengers. Harmon: Yeah. They stood on the ground and watched ya. You took a little written test on the rules and regulations. Ten questions, practically nothing to it, and the— Harold: Write them out with pencil, and throw it away. Harmon: The inspector told you whether you passed that or not, and then he stood on the ground and watched ya. And you went out and did some—figure eights or—I took—I went down to the old Bennett Airport to take my flight test and the guy had, he busted the airplane. He landed so hard, it…that it had spread the landing gear, distorted th—some of the tubing on the bottom side—we couldn't fly it anymore. So my instructor said, "C 'mon, we’ll go to Tri-cities and catch the inspector. He's down there—or he's going there. We'll catch him this afternoon and get you a flight test on another airplane." Which I'd never flown. A pusher-type airplane, Curtis Pusher. So he checked me out in the airplane and we went down there and he let me go in that airplane, and I flew it around the patch and made a few landings and done some turns around the water tower there, where the railroad track went through and they had a little stop there where they put on water. I turned around that tank and something else and came back and landed and he gave me my license. Next day, I took you for a ride. [laughter] Harold: That's the only time I ever flew out of that field down there. I flew with him. Wanda: And that was the Tri-Cities Field—the old Tri-Cities Airport that you’re telling about? Harold: They didn't call it “Tri-Cities” at that time. Harmon: It was known as Endicott Airport. Harold: It was Endicott Airport at that time. It was right along the road—by the—between the Main Street and the railroad tracks on the west side of Endicott. Harmon: The Endicott owned it by themselves. Johnson City and Binghamton were not in on it. It was just Endicott Airport period. Then when they moved to where they are now, some years later— Harold: There was no true runway or anything. It was just a field, you know, just a grass field is all. Harmon: At that time they didn't do any flyin’—they didn't plow the runways or nothing—they just forgot it. Harold: Most airplanes was open airplanes then, you couldn't fly much in the winter anyway—couldn't stand it. They closed 'em. Wanda: Have you ever done any chartering flights? Harmon: Yes. When we were at the airport full time makin' a living, we bought ourselves a nice Stinson. We bought it from Dr. Moore in Endicott. It was almost new. It was $3,000. We did a lot of charter work with that airplane. Harold: We lost that in the fire. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Yeah, we failed to say that in nineteen fifty—five? Coulda been right—we burned out over here. Harold: Four. Harmon: Fifty-four. We burned out over here and lost—practically everything we had. We had no insurance. Harold: Labor Day weekend. Harmon: We don't know actually what caused the fire, but there was a man there working on his air lane and he started it somehow. He never would say and we never made him. Smoking or with a, not covering a light bulb. So we started up again, with one little airplane, built it up again to where I had three airplanes and did—a lot of students then but it got too heavy for me with my job. And I wasn't about to quit a pretty good job and try to make a livin' flyin' again. Not off that airport anyway, so—gradually sold them off to one. Wanda: This airport, after it started in 1923, it was—there was a lot of activity here, wasn't there? Harmon: Yes. As I remember it being a kid coming up here, at times when they had the—like the Ford Air Show and the fly-ins, there was a lot of activity there. And they did a lot of charter work with those old airplanes out of here. I've heard Mr. Haskell, who is long deceased, tell about it. And they were actually good pilots in those days. They had some pretty good airplanes, too. Some of the business men of the area, of Chenango Bridge and Port Crane, put the money in the field and a—do you remember the names? Harold: Macomber was one of them. Wanda: Yeah, Theodore Macomber. Harmon: And there was another one— Harold: There was a fellow by the name of Rowe, R-O-W-E. Carl Rowe. Harmon: He was manager of the airport. Harold: He run the—he was the instigator of it, really. Harmon: And there was a man from Sanitaria Springs who had a lot of money, a lumber dealer. Wanda: Cushman, was it? Harmon: I believe so. Something like that. If it wasn't his name, it was something like it. Used to hear Mr. Haskell— Harold: I don't remember that one. Harmon: —tell us about him, tell his name. Harold: Do you remember Myron Baird? Harmon: Yeah. Wanda: Well what were some of the other activities that you remember about—any special stories you want to tell about it? Harold: You didn't get about Ed Link's flying signs on there, probably. Wanda: No. Let's do that. You said he had a—designed a—an advertising sign that— Harold: A—he'd a—dreamed it up and made, on a high-wing airplane he made a low wing out of square frames, about 8 or 9 or 10 of 'em. Each one would make a letter. And he used a paper roller out of his player piano. He was in the player piano business, his father was, Link pianos they made. He had the holes in that paper set up so that it would make a sign light up any letters that he wanted on it. He'd fly around at night and it would light up. I remember he had a contract with Spaulding's. He had enough letters to make the word SPAULDING across it. He'd light up SPAULDING, when it would go off he'd light up CAKE, go off and he'd light up CRULLERS, and go off. And he’d fly low over the city, see? And he took contracts in Cortland and Syracuse, and Philadelphia, and all around the country. I don't know if he had one for New York or not. But he had three of those airplanes fixed up that way at different times. That's what he was doin' for, for an income. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: The piano business was pretty bad. They gradually closed it up, but then he dreamed up the Link trainer which was half a player piano too. He invented that. Had the bellows that they used out of player pianos. Some bellows that moved different things—he had 'em to push the trainers around. That's what moved them around. He used a vacuum pump with suction and pressure to push them trainers. Harmon: When I learned to fly with Link he still had the piano factory down on Water Street and in this factory he had a room set up where he had ground school. And two of the trainers that he'd built. And they looked a little bit like an airplane. They had wings on 'em and a little fuselage, tail assembly. All worked, and before we soloed out we had to have time in those trainers. And I had so much on the instrument trainer, so much on the—we called it the “bump” trainer. You'd get in and turn it on. It would sit there for a second or two and then it would dive off one way and you had to correct, and on the wall he had a light. And on the nose of the trainer was a—tatting [sic]—what would you call it? Harold: Gun sight. A gun sight. Harmon: Yeah, like a gun sight, or a ring. And you'd look through that ring at that light and keep it in the light. And it would duck off sideways and you'd control it and bring it back and this was how you—it helped you to control an airplane after you got in the air. Harold: You were fightin' rough air to keep this thing on the target. Wanda: Well was it essentially the same feeling that you had in a plane? Harmon: A little bit. Yes. It helped. It…it did. Harold: The nose went up or down and the wings went up or down. It rocked both ways on both axles. And turned also—three axles. Harmon: But it was from the pianos that he designed this. And this—like Harold said—later on was the C-3 'blue box' as the military called it, and they built a tremendous amount of 'em for all the countries in the world used them, that were in the War. Harold: They put a hood over the thing so you couldn't see out, with instruments in it. Simulated instruments. Harmon: I'm pretty sure, certain it was before World War II that Ed Link and his wife went to Japan and the Japs bought some of them. Harold: Yeah, they bought two or three of them. Herb Chamberlain went over there. Wanda: Might have had a pretty good market over there. Harold: It's just hearsay, but they said Herb Chamberlain went over there and the Japs had taken one of them trainers completely apart—every piece out of it, and they couldn't get it back together again. He went over there and worked on it to get it, to get to work again. Wanda: We could have lost the War. Did he make some of those early trainers in Cortland, did you say? Harmon: Yes. He sort of got disenchanted I think, with the city of Binghamton. They gave him a rough time, this area did. Mobil Oil was one of them. He wouldn't buy Mobil no how, for many, many years, because they gave him a rough time. I guess he owed them some money, couldn't pay it and they wouldn't go along with him. But anyway he left here, went to Cortland and was up there several years. He left this area while I was learning to fly and I followed him to Cortland and drove up there and flew his airplane for two or three years in completing what education I got from Link's school. And a—while there he progressed rapidly as we moved into World War Il and made many many trainers there and probably got his first financial footing there. Got really started there. Then— Harold: He moved back down here on the corner of Gaines and Front Street. Wanda: Gaines? Harold: Yeah, on the corner of Gaines St. and Front St. He had that factory in there and that was about—just before the War and they had a big contract. That Casey Jones in New York was involved in it. Sold them a military contract and they were instrument trainers. They were all instrument trainers, nothing else. They made a lot of improvements. They had a fellow by the name of Lokrantz. Gunnie Lokrantz was an electronics wizard and he was from I.B.M., but Link hired him and he had a lot to do with it. I used to go down there nights. I was a sign painter and I lettered their crates for them. Ship them all over the world. He had me put the letters on the crates by hand, you know, to send them out. They had big wood boxes, like piano boxes you know? Big ones with parts of the trainer in 'em. Harmon: That was the old Red Dot cigar factory on the corner. Wanda: Corner of Gaines and Front. Harmon: There's a bar and grill or something in now—now Front St. is off—you couldn't go that way. He moved from there over in—I guess it was the Hubbard, Eldridge and Miller furniture factory. Over on the Brandywine dump. It was built where the dump was or after the dump was in there. It used to go down through the hollow there across the creek and over to that factory. And it was a large flat brick building and he moved into that from Gaines St. and then from there he moved on up to the old—truck factory down here. Larrabee Truck in Hillcrest. Wanda: Oh, that's where Larrabee Truck was. Harold: I remember when they built Larrabee trucks there. I remember seein' 'em. They weren't much good, but they built quite a lot of them. Harmon: Well. We say they weren't much good, but for their day, they were…they— Harold: They had a chain drive on the rear wheel, some of 'em did. Chains—like a bicycle chain only a big one—on the side, you know? Sprockets on 'em. Gwenn [Mrs. Harmon Johnson]: Isn't that one sitting down here on the Brandywine? Harmon: No, that's a Lynn. That's a crawler-type truck. It has crawlers on the back and a—wheels in front. Lynn Tractor of Morris. Harold: World War II vintage, or something like that. Harmon: Lynn Tractor built quite a few of those in World War II and then they stopped. Wanda: Well then, to get back to this airport, have you covered just about everything on activities that went on around here? Do you remember any of the show pilots or stunt pilots, and that sort of thing? Can you speak about the Waco—that was Waco Taperwing? Harold: That Taperwing? Cy Bittner was traveling around the country with that one to all the air shows. Harmon: He was the airline’s pilot—or airmail pilot. Airlines weren't flying yet. He was the airmail pilot and he worked out of Albany. And on his time off he used to go around the country to the air shows doing aerobatics and he had this airplane all fixed up with chrome wires and real fancy. He was an expert pilot. He was—finished himself off long ago. Harold: There's some more of them pilots used to come here. I can't remember their names. I remember that one—with Harold Johnson with the Tri-motor Ford, that I saw perform in Syracuse, but— Wanda: Did you say something about Roscoe Turner—being here? Harmon: Yes. Back prior to our being over at the airport and I was up here on a bicycle, I guess—I was not old enough to even fly yet—they had the Ford Air Tour went across the nation. And it stopped at Chenango Bridge Airport. And it's possible at that time it was called the Binghamton Airport— Harold: Yeah, it was. Harmon: —because there was no airport at Bennett Airport or Tri-Cities either, this was it. It was the first airport around here. And a, Roscoe Turner was in the group flying a Gee-Bee. All of their airplanes were designed to fly out of small airports. Today our airport is awfully small. For the airports, or airplanes that are built, built today, our airport is too small, for most of them. They need concrete runways and a lot of it. Wanda: Yeah. How long are these runways now? Harmon: Twenty-one fifty is our longest runway. Wanda: Mmhmm. That's the East-West. Harmon: Yeah. Harold: You can't do much nowadays with less than Three-thousand or Thirty-five hundred. Minimum, ya know. That's what Tri-Cities is: Three-thousand. 3000. Wanda: There's no way to expand here any more is there, either? Harmon: No. It costs a lot of money. Unless you get Federal money or Federal help, it's pretty near impossible to run an airport today. Many, many little airports around the country are going by the wayside. They can't survive. Taxes are so high on the land and a—they get no help from anybody. It's open to the public but they don't want to put one dime in it, unless it's owned by the public. If it was a—a community-owned airport, like the—if Chenango Bridge or the town owned it, then you could get Federal aid. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: But we can't have—get one dime. And, uh, now that we don't operate it commercially…why, it's almost impossible to make it run. My buildings are in bad shape. My equipment is old and I'm gettin' old. Harold: Boy, how prices have changed on—like aviation gas. Wanda: Oh, yeah? Harold: Boy, we used to buy a barrel for what you can buy five gallons for now. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: Well, not quite that bad, but— Wanda: The gasoline itself has changed a lot, probably, too. Harold: Yeah. We used to buy an aviation-grade fuel. It came in steel, fifty-gallon barrels from Atlantic. Harmon: About $10.00 a barrel. Harold: $10.00 - $11.00 a barrel for 55 gallons. And it was very good gas, wasn't it? Harmon: It was. Harold: Never any water—I can't think what octane it was. Seems like it was 75, or something like that. Harmon: It was low. Harold: It was nothing like nowadays, but a, you could put your hand in it, take it out, it would dry it up white, right quick. Very volatile. It would evaporate fast, you know? Well we'd get it in fifty-gallon drums, and pour it through a chamois with a funnel into the airplane. Wanda: Yeah. Harold: Chance. Harmon: Gasoline today I'm getting 87 cents over here and I'm under some of the other airports around. I guess I'm about 5 cents a gallon under. Harold: Sure. I'm sure down around New York it would bring you a dollar a gallon for fuel. Harmon: Today it's pretty close to that. Wanda: Well, I'm trying to think what we haven't covered by now. Harold: I remember that guy at Atlantic. He, he was the one—Ziegler was his name or something like that? Harmon: Yeah? Harold: He'd order up two or three barrels of gas for us. They'd keep sending it up by truck and he'd set 'em off, ya know. The old big steel barrels. They were galvanized, rounded barrels. They were not like these you see now, that are straight sides, you know. They used to be rounded like a—they were galvanized, they were heavy barrels. But they were a gasoline barrel. I remember being up in Canada with a Sea-Bee and having to go get me one of them with a station wagon and bring it in—hundreds of miles. Back in— Wanda: Is that right? Harold: —for gasoline for a Sea-Bee, you know. Harmon: A good four place airplane today, equipped as it should be, minimum I'd call a good airplane about fifty-thousand. If you've really got the money you can go up—better than a hundred in a little four place airplane. So it's just got outta hand as far as the average man who is concerned to buy his airplane to fly unless it's business, something like that. And that's what the people that are doing most of the flying, I think, in buying airplanes today are small business or business people, because—they write that airplane off. Wanda: There's—there's not the fun for young people, either, to go into it. Harmon: No. No. Harold: So many restrictions in flying now. You gotta have radio gear. You can't even go into Broome County without a radio, you know? Wanda: Is that a fact? Harold: You can't get to New York or Washington or Chicago any more without a lot of radio gear. Wanda: When did you first start getting into the radio a—requirements? When did you—what kind of radio equipment did you— Harold: World War II, they got some of it. Wanda: Mm-hm. Harold: And I was teaching instrument flying on Army and Air Force programs, and the radio was the old-fashioned, low frequency radio. They had a, a radio beam and you, you made instrument approaches and everything with it. That's what I was teaching, you know. After the War they came out with the new UHF, or VHF it was at first. The OMNI which is very popular yet today. There's a lot of big improvements in it, but. That static created—the old ones, when you had a thunder shower your radio went out, ya know. It was real crazy 'cause the static would just drive it right out if you had a thunder shower. Harmon: A little trainer today, just coming out new by Piper and it looks like it was going to be pretty popular, two-place, one hundred and eight horsepower, low-wing, canopy top, nice visibility out of it, comfortable airplane to fly in—the minimum is $20,000.00. Harold: Just a two-place. Harmon: That's just two-place. And it's a very small airplane. Isn't fast. It isn't an airplane that you would buy to go somewhere with, it's strictly a training airplane. Or for someone to fly on Sunday or something if you want to go for a little ride around the airport. But to get up into a good four-place family airplane, fifty grand—about the cheapest. Harold: In about 1954—ah—G.A.F. got a new Bonanza. It cost what—eleven or twelve thousand? Harmon: Twelve thousand. Harold: And it was a beautiful airplane. I flew it four hundred hours, something, for them. I remember a trip to Los Angeles and back with it, but that airplane, today, would be at least fifty-thousand, wouldn't it? Harmon: Uh-uh. It's over a hundred. That airplane today is a hundred and nine thousand fully equipped. I've been reading about it recently. Harold: It was listed like—twelve—thirteen thousand or something when they bought it. It was brand new, they got it from up there to Rochester from a dealer. Harmon: So this is what's happened to the aviation industry. Harold: It's priced itself off the market. Wanda: Yeah, for a smaller operator like you are, you're just not going to be able to survive. Harold: You can't do it. You, you can't—have a hundred-thousand dollar airplane and rent it out. Wanda: Yeah. Just like everything else, it's getting too big. Harmon: You’ve gotta be big business today to—to make a go and we have an example of that. A fellow in Endicott at Tri-Cities Airport was an engineer in IBM Owego. Got interested in flying, got all the licenses and so on. He left—got a leave of absence for the year from IBM. He got money to back him, they built a big hangar at Tri-Cities Airport, he's got a—is a Cessna dealer today. He's doing real well, but he deals in big airplanes. He sells to corporations around. I don't know how he does it, but he—he sold a twin-engine airplane to someone in Washington, D.C.—a brand new one, a 410-Cessna, which runs $300,000. Harold: He's making it in sales, not the operation. Harmon: Right. He's not making it on the operating, strictly sales. He's a salesman, he's got people working for him and somehow he sells airplanes. Harold: An outfit in Reading there, did that and did real well. They—two brothers and I used to know 'em. Wanda: You—you a—rent space in your hangar now? Harmon: Yes. I have ten airplanes on the field, counting my own, and this is how it keeps running. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: If it wasn't for the hangar rent and the little sale of gasoline and so on it would fold up, and Haskell's would plant corn there. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: I have to give Haskell's, of course, more than half of what I take in and I—what's left over, it's pretty hard to make the thing run on that. I have to maintain the buildings and a they don't touch it. Wanda: Mmm. The overhead and all that is your responsibility. Well, I would hate terribly to see the Chenango Bridge Airport go out of business. It's been a landmark for a long time. Harmon: It's been here a long time, and ah— Harold: Sooner or later it's bound to happen. Harmon: Its days are numbered, I'm sure. As we know, Haskell's gave up the retail milk business this year. OK, how long they'll stay at the wholesale, let's call it, that they're in now, no one knows. Ah. They get pretty discouraged and I'm sure all farmers do and have over the years, as anybody else in business does, but a—who knows how long it lasts? Maybe I’ll give up before they do. I don't know. I get pretty exasperated, too, trying to run the place and— Harold: You don't make any money on it and it's foolish to be tied up to it. Harmon: We do an awful lot of work for nothing, you know, for that thing. Gwenn: Find time to go fishing spring and fall. Wanda: Right. But go by plane and enjoy that part of it anyway. Well, I want to thank you. Harold: You and Charlie don't go on fishing trips, do you? Wanda: Not much anymore but I—we're just about of time here. Harold: I just brought some pictures over to show Harm. Wanda: I want to thank you very much, and for your hospitality, and I hope we can maybe do this again. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson Subject The topic of the resource Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Description An account of the resource Harmon and Harold Johnson describe learning to fly in the early 1930s under the direction of Edwin Link. They operated the Chenango Bridge Airport. They discuss the requirements for licensing, and progressing to commercial, transport, and instructor's ratings. The brothers also discuss various aircrafts they have flown, working as pilots for corporate businesses, and how post WWII affected their operation. They operated a dealerships for Aeronca and Piper airplanes. They talk about changes in flying school, air shows and stunt pilots who visited Chenango Bridge, and how the airport's usefulness has declined due to modern developments in aviation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 36 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson, Harmon ; Johnson, Harold ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-31 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:31 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/61faf5adf2056a1ced09017b71a6f01e.mp3 5dbb208b0b28b1915ea19412d193e5d8 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e85ad2453c346fda2314bc68a0625e20.jpg ae8a1b6e44333c50901140cc497e4250 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral Histories Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories from 1960s Binghamton Alumni Description An account of the resource In 2019, Binghamton University Libraries completed a mission to collect oral interviews from 1960s alumni as a means to preserve memories of campus life. The resulting 47 tales are a retrospective of social, professional and personal experiences with the commonality of Harpur College. Some stories tell of humble beginnings, others discuss the formation of friendships; each provides insight into a moment in our community's rich history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Irene Gashurov Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-2018 Relation A related resource <a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/browse?collection=18">McKiernan Interviews : 60's collection of Oral Histories</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js) This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 2019-02-28 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Irene Gashurov Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Harold Magalnick Year of Graduation 1967 Biographical Text Dr. Harold Magalnick is a pediatrician in the Phoenix area. He is the co-owner of Pediatrix with his son, Dr. Michael Magalnick. He is a medical consultant for several school districts in Phoenix. He is a board member of Arizona’s Children Association. He is on staff with Phoenix Children’s Hospital. As a biology major at Harpur College, he worked at a Binghamton hospital for the mentally ill and attributes his sense of service to this formative experience. After graduating from Harpur, he completed his MD, cum laude, from SUNY Downstate. He served in the U.S. Navy as a staff pediatrician. He has an interest in special needs patients and school health. He has been involved in many community projects, including Make-A-Wish Arizona for more than 30 years. Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Keywords Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in medicine; Harpur College – Alumni living in Phoenix, AZ; Harpur College – Alumni who are pediatricians; Harpur College-Alumni who served in the U.S. Navy; Harpur College – Alumni in community service Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harold Magalnick Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Magalnick, Harold ; Gashurov, Irene Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Dr. Harold Magalnick is a pediatrician in the Phoenix area. He is the co-owner of Pediatrix with his son, Dr. Michael Magalnick. He is a medical consultant for several school districts in Phoenix. He is a board member of Arizona’s Children Association. He is on staff with Phoenix Children’s Hospital. As a biology major at Harpur College, he worked at a Binghamton hospital for the mentally ill and attributes his sense of service to this formative experience. After graduating from Harpur, he completed his MD, cum laude, from SUNY Downstate. He served in the U.S. Navy as a staff pediatrician. He has an interest in special needs patients and school health. He has been involved in many community projects, including Make-A-Wish Arizona for more than 30 years. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-02-28 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Harold Magalnick.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2019-02-28 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni Extent The size or duration of the resource. 43:47 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fae5e8c3dc1101b635850789aeb00a19.jpg 48f954797628c95227b50d19fb635186 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5d45b2dac1e54b653beb17f29e3d9d41.jpg b719d032b5af087a359d7a56e9d24c7c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23f6e15657293bc2201a050d6512df91.jpg 58c11caf2deaba314563226eeb766ce2 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1fbf0507d143257ccb7f6f9a44cfc07c.mp3 e5fe76f3b65d75f4bb4390a3fa6797f7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bloomer,Harry Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-03-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Subject LCSH Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Bicentennial; Uncle Sam; Blinky the Clown Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 00:23 Seconds ; 33:45 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56063">Interview with Harry Bloomer</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interviewed with: Harry Bloomer Interviewed By: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 03/16/1978 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil, and speaking with Harry Bloomer. 263 Main Street, Johnson City. The date is March 16, 1978. This interview is being, taking place at Wilson Memorial Hospital in Johnson City, where Mr. Bloomer is a patient. Will you start out giving me the, the date and...where, the place of your birth, a little of your childhood days, why you came to Johnson City, and while in Johnson City or in this locale, how you earned your living? Harry: Well, well, I mean, I came to Johnson City when I was a small boy. I lost my Dad and my Dad put me away, and so, ah, my Mother didn’t want me. So, when I got to a certain age, after I got to a certain age, then I got transferred to another institution, and I ran away from that one. And then I, then...then the depression came on, so, I…depression come on, so I was, I couldn’t read, couldn’t write. It was just my own name, so I joined, ah, joined the Army. And, ah, and [cough] after I joined the Army, why, I come out with an Honorable Discharge, and…and I, four years and seven months, I was in the Artillery first, then from the Artillery, I went to, ah, I went to the Medical Corps, and from the Medical Corps, and then I got discharged. And then I come home, and I couldn’t buy a job, so I’ve been a clown all my life. Used to clown up to the soldiers and every day that I could, and after I clowned up and everything. And then one day, they wrote a, couldn’t find the guy that was, that was going to be the Santa Claus. And, ah, so they couldn’t find him, so after, so they’re, so after the Chamber of Commerce, ah, got ahold of me. And after they got ahold of me, said, “I’m gonna make a Santa Claus out of ya.” I said, “Whoa, wait just a minute - difference between a Santa Claus and a difference between Santa Claus, and, eh, difference between, and, ah…a clown is between day, day, ah, day and night. Dan: Right. Harry: So… Dan: Okay. Harry: So, I said, “The difference between day, a day and night,” and ah, “What do you mean, you like children?” Well, I knew how to handle ‘em. “You’ve been a clown. And, eh, you know what…how to act with ‘em.” Stuff like that. I says, “Yeah, I know I do. But it’s, difference between, ah…” I says, “Well, I’ll try it.” So, I says, “You got a suit?” He says, “No, I haven’t got a suit. But,” he says, uh, “we’ll get you one.” And he got me one, and it was the worst one I ever saw. It was handmade, and it was a rubber mask, with a, a hot cotton, batten beard on it. And it was the hottest thing I’d had ever got ahold of. And I begin to like it, and so, happen next year, so I says, “Well," I says, who’ll be it next year?” “Well, you did such a good job, we’re going to let you have it.” Then I found out where this school was in Albion, New York. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And, ah, so I went to Albion, New York, and I, I said, “Is this the place where you get your, your wig and beard?” He says, “Yes, this is the place. But I only got one left - I’m going to New York, but I guess I can wait on you.” So, he says, “You want that wig and beard real bad, don’t ya?” I said, “Sure, I really want it, no matter what the price is; I don’t give a care. I want the suit, and I want the wig and beard.” So, Charlie showed me how to put it on, and he said to me, ah, and he said, and Charlie says, I kept feeling my pocket, looking at the suit; feeling my pocket, looking at the suit. “You really want that,” he says. “Really want it?” “Charlie,” I said, “I’m not married and nobody has to bawl me out when I come home. ‘How much money did you spend?’ And, ah, ‘What kind of, what kind of good time, good time did you have?’ and stuff like that. And if I come home broke…well, that’s my business ‘cause I’m all by, I’m all by myself.” And so, I went then and bought the suit and brought it home. And Charlie says, “If you, if you’re gonna make it your professional out of it, I’d advise you to have two, two suits in case of an accident - the show, it gotta go on.” And I said, “By the way, Charlie, what do you use for your makeup for your face?” He says, “See, you’re a better salesman than I am. Well,” he says, “You, ah, need three things - your powder. Use, ah, a white lead pencil. And, uh…when you use rouge, and then you, then you use your mirror. Mirror. And you take your time putting it on, in mirror - you don’t plaster it on. When, when you take your…you put it over your eyes, you don’t plaster it on. You just go very, very lightly. Very lightly. Like you just come in, out of, out of the cold ‘cause your face been frostbitten or something. And then on your face, you put rouge. And after you rub that all off, you rub that all off because, uh, it makes you look pas- you come in with rosy cheeks. And so, uh…then, then...then I, ah, I floated around. I went 25 years to that school. And one year, 25 years [inaudible], and, well, I, I took sick. I didn’t want to miss the school, but my Doctor said I’d better, I’d better miss it this year, then I might be alright the next year. So, I said, “Okay, whatever you say, Doc.” So, I, I missed it. And the day the school opened, I cried like a baby [begins crying] because I never missed a year. Dan: 25 years? Harry: Yeah. My profession. Dan: And this was the school in Albion? Harry: Albion…it was in Albion, but it was- Dan: Pardon? Harry: It’s in Bay City, Michigan now because Charlie died, see. Dan: Now you talk about - what’s Charlie’s last name? Harry: Charlie W. Howard. Dan: How do you spell that last name? Harry: You know what? I never went to school, so I couldn’t tell ya. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah… Sue: Howard. Dan: Howard. Sue: H-O-W-A-R-D. [spelling] Dan: Okay. Harry: So anyway, through going up there, and he said, “Don’t worry, Harry. You’re not gonna lose any time for it because you’re, you’re a real goodness, professional Santa Claus. And when I mean you do it…you don’t come up here for thanks just to put it on to scare the kids or give them a lot of hooey or stuff like that; you tell ‘em the truth. And, and you’re willing to…what you learn.” So, I went up the year after I took sick and I said this really…I can’t remember her name, but anyway, she was my nurse and she took me all around, and she really stuck by me, and she still sticks by me. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And, ah, then I hear…ah, I called him up again this year one time, and I said, “They’re gonna make me again, Charlie.” “Well, no, you’re not gonna…you’re not gonna lose anything over it because you, you’re always…you know your business.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, anyway, come home…and, ah, when I come home from there, a guy comin’ over, a guy come over to my my house one night from the newspapers. And he wanted, ah, tape…tape a couple of tapes off how, how I got to be a Santa. “Well,” I says, “There’s all my books here, there’s over 35 books of pictures of everywhere I go, everything I take. And when I’m not playing Santa Claus, I’m playing Blinky the, Blinky the Clown at the Pairs.” I used to work at the grandstand and sell apples and peanuts and stuff like that. I sell ‘em, “Here, here comes the lousy peanut man, trying to get rid of them just as fast as he can.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And then one woman said to me one day, “What have ya got?” I says, “I’ve got candy apples; they’re dipped in glue; a couple of worm holes; it’s all up to you; sweet on the outside; sour on the in; the red gets all over your chin.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Then I’d come back the next day: “Hey, you’ve got nothing but popcorn.” “Oh, yes - I have,” says I, [inaudible] and I came to spend my rotten corn. “Last year a kernel, this year a pop; when we get to you, it won’t be so hot.” And, ah…one woman says, “Ya talk like that all the time.” And I says, “Yeah. If I don’t get ya, my voice will; I’ll get your money before you get over the hill.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: And she says, “See? You’re not only a poet like that,” and when you write it in the paper and it says, “He’s not only a poet, but he’s also a politician.” And so, the kids one day, says, “Hey, Santa. How’d you get here with no snow?” “I fly high and I fly low; and I find land; that’s how I go.” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: Now…[inaudible] And then this family says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I said, Yes, I brought Rudolph.” But I says, ah…hm, “He won’t want to go this year.” “Why not?” “Did you ever see a deer go why, why, without snow?” “No.” “Well, then Rudolph won’t go.” Dan: Hm. Harry: But, I…next year, I told ‘em I’d try to play it again as, as...as sick as I was. And so, ah, I put my outfit and suit on - played, ah, quite, ah…clubs, and the big clubs and stuff like that. And did my best. And then they says, “Hey, did you bring Rudolph this year?” I said, “Yeah.” I said, “But I’m having trouble.” “What you mean?” I said, “Tricky Dick won’t give me no gas; I can’t get the helicopter off the grass.” Dan: [lightly chuckles] Harry: And I says, “Did you bring Rudolph?” I says, “Yeah. I can’t use, use him, either.” “Well, why can’t ya?” “‘Cause,” I says, “Tricky Dick, he, he shut off the lights; can’t light up his nose…” Dan: [chuckles] Harry: “Can’t see which way he goes.” Dan: “Uh-huh.” Harry: “I, I hope Tricky Dick is out of the office ‘cause next time, everything will be, will be alright.” And this year I tried to play…I said, “Well, don’t gang me this year because Santa Claus is in tough shape.” One little boy came to me: “What do you mean, ‘tough shape’?” I says, “Yeah, I brought Rudolph, but he’s awful mean this year. Terrible mean.” Dan: Yeah. Harry: “What do you mean?” I says, “Awful mean.” I says, “I went up to feed him…when I went out to feed him, he hauled right off from me, and he kicked me. So, I can’t let nobody sit on my lap th-…for this year.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I said, “You’re not mad at Santa because you can’t sit on Santy’s lap?” “Oh, no.” I said, “We’ll find him just the same.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And like that. So, I went through my act the best way I could. And I got bleeding, and… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: …Sick again. And they… Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And they put me back in. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And that was my Santa Claus days. Dan: Whe-where were you born, Harry? Harry: I was born in Cortland. Dan: Cortland? Harry: Uh, yeah. I was born in Cortland. Dan: Now, you mentioned your Dad put you away. Harry: My Mother put me away. Dan: Your Mother put you away…away, where? Harry: In a home in Cortland. Dan: In a home in Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Dan: For, for, uh, children? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see. Harry: And then, uh…I started a certain age, they put me up on the Hudson to a feeble-minded home, and people said, “What is that guy? Is he a nut?” “Well,” I says, “If I’m, if, if I’m not, if I’m a nut, I’m a tough nut if I was cracked.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And I said, “I make, what do you make?” I says, “You’re making a lot of noise.” I says, “I…I’m making a buck or two.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “So, make all the noise that’s…and call me anything that you want.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “‘Cause I’m making a buck between as a nut.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “And if you want to learn what I do, I’m a member of a trade.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And so… Dan: Mm-hm. Now, uh, you mentioned the Chamber of Commerce wanted you to play Santa Claus. What Chamber of Commerce? Harry: In, in Johnson City. Dan: In Johnson City - how did you happen to come from - uh, where was this? The…? Harry: This was after the War. Dan: Yeah, but you - where was it on the Hudson that you were…? Harry: Up on the Hudson. Dan: Yeah - how, how did you to-? Harry: That’s good news: I ran away from that place. Dan: You ran away from there, and how did you happen to come to Johnson City? Harry: Well, I worked my way toward home. Dan: Towards Cortland? Harry: Yeah. Yeah, ‘till I found my folks and then my folks didn’t want me. I couldn’t find a job, so I…I picked up my own work. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Mowing lawns, and anywhere I could pick up a penny here or a penny there, and try to make people happy. Dan: Right. Now, you appeared, of course, before a lot of groups and organizations as Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Now, did you go to individual houses? Harry: Mm-hm. Dan: Were you out for hire? Harry: Um-hm. Dan: And what was your busiest season? I mean, was it the week before Christmas? Harry: It…it was, ah, Christmas Eve night. Dan: Christmas Eve night. Now, you weren’t - you, you don’t drive a car, do you? Harry: No, I don’t drive. Dan: Now, how did you get from house to house? Harry: Well, I had a good driver. I decorated my sleigh all up, and I named, and I named him, “Rudolph.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I says, “Well, Rudolph is now all ready for a night.” Then, we keep the same addresses every year. Sometimes we get new ones, sometimes old, younger ones are growed out of it. And so, I always had new ones coming in. Dan: But, I mean, how did you get from one house to another? Harry: In the car. Dan: In the car? Harry: Yeah. Dan: I see…uh-huh. And, ah, Harry, would you mind telling me, I mean, how much you got for each one of your performances - I mean, to go to a residence? You know, to play Santa Claus? Harry: Well, sometimes I got nothin’. Dan: Sometimes, you got nothing. Harry: I didn’t get a penny. Dan: Is that right? Harry: But it ain’t, it ain’t for the penny. Dan: It’s, it’s…that’s right - it’s self-satisfaction. Mm-hm. Ah, what awards have you had, geh, Harry? Harry: Well, the highest award I ever had was, ah, was, ah…Red Ruby. Dan: Red Ruby? Harry: Red Ruby. From the Santa Claus school - I went there for 25 years. Dan: That’s in Albion? Harry: Mm-hm. Yeah. Dan: Uh-huh…now, what is the Red Ruby award? Harry: Well, Red Ruby stands for everlasting fire that never goes out. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: For the, for the good deeds you did. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Towards other people. Dan: Uh-huh. Now, during the Bicentennial year, you, as I understand, you portrayed Uncle Sam. Harry: Yes. I went out, crazy enough. I went out, tried, bought myself an Uncle Sam suit. But, I didn’t have no beard at first. Dan: You’ve still retained the beard, haven’t you? [laughs] Harry: Yeah. Somebody, somebody said, “Hey, Uncle Sam’s supposed to have a beard.” I says, “I, I know that.” I says, I says, “Don’t worry about it.” I says, “I’ll put my razor away. And I’ll see what, then I’ll see what Uncle Sam will do.” First thing I know, it come out a perfect white and shaped right up - didn’t have to color it, tie it, or nothing. So, I said, “Here comes Uncle Sam; dirty old man; takes your money as fast as he can.” Dan: [laughs] Harry: “Takes your money and takes your dough - won’t give it back, where you go.” Hello. What do you want? [Interruption over Public Address system] Dan: Um, Harry, is there anything else that you’d like to tell me? You had a banquet here some time ago that the notables of the Triple Cities put on for you, honoring you for your- Harry: Well… Dan: -public service. Harry: Well, when I got out of the hospital. Dan: This was, what? About a year ago? Mm-hm. Harry: And I didn’t know nothin’ about it. Dan: It was a surprise party. Uh-huh. Harry: [crying; words inaudible] -light up the trees. And then they, they presented me with a live Christmas, Christmas tree. Dan: A live Christmas tree? Harry: Yeah, in the park. Dan: I see. Harry: So, then I told ‘em…I says, “Well, I tell you all,” I says, “When the tree gets big and tall, you can come in and decorate it all.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: So, I says, “Now, you’ve got a swing out there.” And I says, “When, uh…when the tree begins to, to grow,” I said…I said, “Out in the…out in my swinging, and now, and I’ll watch it grow.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: I told ‘em. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: And so, I always had little ditties, little poems here for different people- Dan: Uh-huh. Harry -and stuff like that, you know? Dan: Were there any other characters that you portrayed other than Santa Claus, Blinky the Clown, and Uncle Sam? Harry: Well, the real ones was the…see, I’ve been a clown all, all of my life. And then I came in, in on the Santa Claus deal…and then, then...then I was up, I was up to Albion. Charlie said to me, “You outta, you outta make a good, eh…Easter Rabbit.” “A rabbit?” I says. “Whaddaya mean, a rabbit?” He says, “You make such a good Santy Claus…" Dan: [laughing] Harry: “…And you know how to act…you know how to [inaudible] without breaking into them, and you know not to talk when you don’t have to. So, you outta make darn good Peter Rabbit.” And so, I got the business for, of playing, uh, the Peter Rabbit for, for the Schweiners, and help to count them egg hunt Easter eggs. Stuff like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: Sometimes, they’d give me something for it, and sometime they wouldn’t. But it all come from the heart. Dan: Yeah. Well, you, you’ve managed to be self-sustaining over all these, all these years, uh, Harry. Harry: Yeah. Dan: In spite of the fact that you can’t read nor write, I mean, I think you’ve done remarkable. Harry: Yeah. Dan: Is there anything else you’d like to add at all? Harry: Well, let’s see, uh… Dan: Is there any other awards that you received outside the Ruby award at the Albion? Harry: No, not exactly. Uh…some of the boys didn’t like me coming up there quite so many times - it took me 25 years. And Charlie - before Charlie died - he said, “If I know you, you’re gonna be the first man to walk out of this school with that Red Ruby on.” Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: He says, I said, “No, Charlie.” He says, “I’m telling ya.” He says, “Harry, if you’re not here - if you’re gone before I am - you’re gonna be the first man to walk out.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he says, “It’s because you’re gonna make a good Santa Claus.” Dan: Uh-huh. Now, when you went up there during these 25 years, when you returned, Harry, what did you do - teach the other…? Harry: Well… Dan: Fellas that wanted to, uh…the trade? Harry: Well, I wanted, I wanted to, to portray like that. If I still live and I get better, I might exactly do that. But, I, I never take away anybody else’s trade. Dan: I see. Harry: Never. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: If they wanna learn, they can spend their money like I did. Dan: Yeah. Harry: I’ll always be glad to help ‘em, explain it to ‘em, and tell them where they make their mistakes. If they don’t like it, then they can save their money, and they can, they can go up to the school. Dan: How much did it cost for you to go that school? Harry: Well, when I first went to school there it cost me 20, $125.00. And then they cut it down to, ah, $75.00 - try to get more men to come. Dan: Yep. Harry: That was a refreshing course. Dan: Yeah. Harry: And then they cut it down to 50. And he left it that way - left it, left it down to 50. Dan: I see. Harry: And, ah…and Charlie says, “Don’t let anybody kid ya, Harry, at all: You did this alone.” Dan: Mm-hm. How, how, uh, many weeks was the original course when you went there? Harry: [inaudible] -cost. Dan: When you went, when it was- Harry: Hundred- Dan: $125.00? Harry: Oh, it was about…it was about two weeks, it started. Dan: Two weeks? Harry: Yeah. Because, see, the school was just startin’ to be... Dan: Yeah. Harry: He, he just started buildin’ it. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: It was between Charlie (W-H-I) and, and, ah…and, and May. Maple Jone. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: And he, ah…got them together. And he, he got them together. And he went to New York, helping him all over. We went to Macy’s, he says, “Oh, my God. I,” he says, “I can’t find better-lookin’ Santa Clauses than that.” Heaven bets. And Macy says, “Why in the world don’t you start a school? And put better-lookin’ men in this, in, in this school?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “Better-looking Santa Claus?” And so I go around and check ‘em. I see a boy – a fellow with brown shoes and black puttees, and I said, “By the way.” I says, “Did you ever go to Santa Claus school?” And he says, “No, why?” Well, I says...ah, “Don’t you want to go to school?” “Do ya have to?” I said, “No, you...you don’t have to. It costs ya money no matter where you go; you’re never gonna take a penny with ya when you go... Dan: Mm-hm. Harry:...But you’ll be...[begins sobbing] Dan: Okay, that’s alright, Harry...ah... Harry: He, he killed that. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: I says, “Please think.” I says, “Playing Santa Claus; there’s not many that are very nice.”  So, what point they need is: “How much money you make playing Santa Claus? I looked at him, and I says, “Is that what you came up here for?” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Make a little thing like that – go right back. Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: So, I says, “You’ll never make a Santa Claus.” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: Says, “You mean to tell me you see a Santa every three or four over there, and some over there, that you hadn’t, haven’t the opportunity to charge...” Dan: Mm-hm. Harry: “...then you’d never be a Santa Claus?” Dan: Yep; right. Not from the heart. Harry: Right. Dan: Not from the heart. Okay, Harry, you think that’s about all you’d like to tell me today? Harry: Well, you like - that’s how I got to be Santa Claus. Dan: That’s how you got to be Santa Claus. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And sold peanuts and popcorn at the ballpark. Harry: Yeah. And he says, “Come and get your stinkin’, rotten peanuts!”  Dan: [Dan laughing] Harry: And said, “The longer you wait, the rottener they get.” I used to tell them that. Dan: Uh-huh. Harry: [unintelligible] Dan: Well, for the sake of the archives, ah, Harry, why don’t we get your nurse’s name here on tape? Harry: Um... Sue: Sue Romanaski. Dan: Sue? Sue: Romanaski. Dan: Romanaski. Sue: Mm-hm. Harry: Yeah. Dan: And you’re a nurse, are you, Sue? Sue: Yeah, I’m an RN. Dan: You’re an RN? Sue: Yeah. Dan: At the hospital here? Sue: At Ideal Hospital. I’m- Dan: Oh, at Ideal. Sue: When Harry was having his operation last October, I was a student nurse. Dan: I see. Sue: And I went through the operation with him and everything. Dan: Mm. And you stuck with him. Sue: Yep. Harry: Good. Sue: I used to go over and read his letters to him, write his mail, and take him shopping, and things like that. Dan: Uh-huh. Well, God bless you. Well, Harry, would you like me to play this back for ya? Harry: Yeah. Dan: Okay. Article: Tribute Paid to memory of ‘Mr. Santa Claus’ By: George Basler "God knows the world needs more Harry Bloomers." This statement by Bernard Fionte, news director of WNBF radio, summed up the feelings of many today toward Harry Bloomer, who for 36 years played Santa Claus for thousands of Johnson City children. [Image Caption: 'Mr. Santa Claus'. Depicts Harry Bloomer in his Santa Claus outfit, looking down at a piece of parchment held in his two hands.] Bloomer, 71, who was nicknamed "Mr. Santa Claus" because he played the role for so long, died yesterday at Wilson Memorial Hospital after a long battle with cancer. "He was one of the most irreplacable people I've known," said Fionte, who emceed a tribute to Bloomer at Johnson City High School in 1976. "I think it's a dreadful loss to the community." Bloomer was sick for more than a year, but until the very end he never gave up fighting. Last January he was still looking forward to playing Santa Claus for local children next Christmas. But, for the last week or so, Bloomer knew the end was near, his friends said. "I saw him last Wednesday night, and he had put his trust in God. He said God knows best," said the Rev. Richard D. Christen, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Johnson City, which Bloomer attended for more than 30 years. "He was a man of good faith with respect to the community, and he was a man of real faith with respect to God," Christen added. Another close friend, Patricia Morse, said, "I'm glad it's over. He had suffered too long, and he was too good to suffer.” At his request, Bloomer will be buried in his outfit of Blinky the Clown – a character he created during his years as a circus vendor. He also played Peter Rabbit and in the summer of 1976 appeared as Uncle Sam at area parades and celebrations in honor of the Bicentennial. But, in a recent interview, he said, "Way down deep in my heart, I think my favorite character is Santa Claus. It’s a lot of headaches sometimes, but I like to meet kids." He identified with the role so much that at one time he thought about being buried in one of his Santa Claus costumes. But, he decided against it because he said simply, "Santa Claus lives forever. " Why was Bloomer so dedicated to playing Santa Claus? Christen theorized part of this dedication stemmed from his lack of parental love as a child. His childhood was spent in orphanages where, because of a stutter, he was overlooked by teachers and never learned to read or write. He finally ran away from an institution at the age of 15. "Maybe he felt what he lacked as a boy, he could give to others," Christen said. While Bloomer became a local legend during his years in Johnson City, an Evening Press article in July 1976 discovered that few knew the man behind the gaudy costumes and outrageous trappings. For the last 12 years of his life, Bloomer lived in a small $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. He never married and never had any children. Ironically, the man who brought joy to so many persons at Christmas time usually spent his holiday alone. But, Bloomer never became bitter. He called the testimonial that local residents organized in November 1976 a high point of his life, and added, ''I didn't think I had so many friends, but I have a lot of them.'' Louis Augostini, who organized the testimonial, said he saw Bloomer 10 days ago at the hospital, and "he was preoccupied with expressing thanks to people for everything that's been done for him. “Of course, the real truth is that Harry did a lot for us," Augostini said.  "He was a very unselfish person. Playing Santa Claus was never a money maker for him. Maybe it just gave him a sense of pride to do something for the kids," Augostini added. Bernard Brown, president of the Johnson City Businessmen's Association, said Bloomer was "synonymous with Johnson City." "That was his life[,] to keep people happy...He was terrific. He'll be missed." Jean Kavulich, a friend of Bloomer's for more than 30 years, said simply, "He was the children's idol." Funeral arrangements are being handled by the J.F. Rice Funeral Home in Johnson City. Director James Carey said the home is expecting large crowds during calling hours this afternoon and evening. This evening the Frank A. Johnson American Legion Post, to which Bloomer belonged, will provide a special honor guard. The Last Man's Club (veterans of World War II) will also hold a special service at the home. Bloomer's funeral will be Saturday at 10 A.M. at First Baptist Church in Johnson City. His body will then be taken by a grandnephew, Terrence McCullough, for burial at a cemetery between Marathon and Cortland. McCullough was with Bloomer at the time of his death yesterday. But even though he's gone, Bloomer's memory will live on, his friends said. Morse said, “There is some talk of donating to Roberson Center one of Bloomer's Santa Claus suits and the certificates he received from the Santa Claus School in Michigan (a training school for Santa) that he attended for many years.” [Image caption: Harry Bloomer. Depicts Harry Bloomer facing the camera, garbed in his Uncle Sam costume, and walking up a city street.] For his part, Richard Barrons, curator of history at the center, said he'd welcome this donation. "Harry was a great inspiration to many people," Christen said. Morse noted simply, "He didn't play Santa Claus - he was Santa Claus.'' Article: Blinky the Clown will get the epitaph he wished for By: George Basler Thanks to the efforts of a friend, Harry Bloomer's final wish has come true. For 36 years Bloomer enchanted thousands of area children as Blinky the Clown and Santa Claus. He made a career out of bringing good cheer to others, and in the process became one of Johnson City's most beloved residents. Before he died last April, after a long battle with cancer, Bloomer made two requests: To be buried in his Blinky the Clown outfit because, he said, "As long as I've been a clown there's no harm in going out that way. I just might want to entertain someone on the other side.” And, to have a tombstone placed at his grave, with the simple inscription: "Here lies Blinky the Clown. Doesn't know if he's going up or down. He just has to leave town.” After Bloomer's estate was settled, there was no money left for the tombtone. [Image Caption: Harry Bloomer...in 1976. Depicts a portrait shot of Harry Bloomer in his Uncle Sam costume in a city environment; the white top hat is of prominence.] [Image Caption: Linc Haller polishes the tombstone of his friend, Horry Bloomer. Depicts Linc Haller squatting next to Harry Bloomer’s tombstone in a cemetary, which depicts an artist’s rendition of the character alongside the inscription that Harry wished for.] [Image Taken By: Frank Woodruff] But Howard L. "Linc" Haller, the former owner of the Binghamton-Johnson City Monument Co., remembered a promise he had made to his friend. "For the past 20 years Harry would see me in the post office or on the street, and he'd say, 'Don't forget when I die what I want on my tombstone.' It got to be an old story,” Haller said. “When he had his last sickness, I went up to see him in the hospital and promised him he’d get his wish.” ln July, Haller and Robert Traver, current owner[s] of the monument company, wrote Bloomer's grand-nephew in Syracuse for a picture of Bloomer in his Blinky the Clown outfit so it could be engrav d on the tombstone. They then ordered the tombstone, just like Bloomer wanted it from their factory in Johnstown. The tombstone arrived last week, and next week Haller and Traver will move it to Virgil, where Bloomer’s grave is. Haller made it clear he's not doing this for publicity, but because of the promise he made to Bloomer. He seemed embarrassed by the notoriety. ''Don't play me up too much,'' he said. "I told Harry he would have a marker, and that’s all there is to it.” The granite tombstone has the Blinky the Clown poem and the engraving of Bloomer in his clown costume on one side. On the other side is the simple inscription, “Harry Bloomer. 1907-1978." Haller acknowledged that some people might think the poem is inappropriate for a tombstone, but "that's just what Harry wanted.” And anyone who thinks it's inappropriate didn’t know Bloomer very well. Every Christmas for more than three decades the portly man, dressed in one of his three red[,] velvet suits and a fluffy white beard, walked the village streets handing out candy to the children. He also played Santa Claus for village merchants and clubs[,] and every year visited the Wilson Memorial Hospital pediatrics ward. Besides Kris Kringle, Bloomer also played Peter Rabbit, Uncle Sam during the 1976 Bicentennial, and Blinky the Clown, a character he originated during his years as a circus vendor at fairs thoughout the Southern Tier. He became known as "Mr Santa Claus,” but his own life was far from a fairy tale. A lifelong bachelor, Bloomer worked as a laborer and carnival barker. He spent his early years in an orphanage and his last years in a dingy, $30-a-month basement apartment in Johnson City. Those who knew him said he loved children so much because he was so neglected during his own childhood. Despite the bad breaks life dealt him, Bloomer was a man who enjoyed life, Haller said. “He certainly made a lot of other people enjoy it, kids especially.” Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harry Bloomer Subject The topic of the resource Bloomer, Harry -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Johnson City (N.Y.); Cortland (N.Y.); Santa Claus Description An account of the resource Harry Bloomer discusses joining the Army as a young man and entertaining the soldiers. Upon being discharged he began working as a Santa Claus for local organizations and continued to do this for the rest of his life. He talks about attending a Santa Claus school annually. He was also a clown and was known as Blinky the Clown. During the Bicentennial he portrayed Uncle Sam. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 66 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d01c78979a6950ca89df1732559549b2.jpg 3ad84f24c1561a76c5d7c5f33c11f954 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/ada3be9b38cd77c8da1982e51793d24e.mp3 fb547a1e19123d6c2bd46c5ae496fabe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio interviews Title A name given to the resource McKiernan Interviews Description An account of the resource Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism. <h3>The McKiernan 22</h3> <div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div> <ul> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li> </ul> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stephen McKiernan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js) This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 1997-07-14 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Stephen McKiernan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Harry Gaffney Language English Digital Publisher BInghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp4 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data 2 Microcassettes Material Type Sound Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 112:37 Biographical Text <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Harry Gaffney is an educator, administrator, and Vietnam War veteran. He currently is the CEO of Strategic Leadership Management. Gaffney graduated from St. Joseph's University with a Bachelor's degree in English and Villanova with a Master's degree in Educational Administration. "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":769,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0}">Harry Gaffney is an educator, administrator, and Vietnam War veteran. He currently is the CEO of Strategic Leadership Management. Gaffney graduated from St. Joseph's University with a Bachelor's degree in English and Villanova with a Master's degree in Educational Administration. Keywords <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Baby boom generation; Civil Disobedience; Kent State University; Students for a Democratic Society; Anti-War Movement; Weather Underground; Lyndon Johnson; Robert McNamara; Women's Rights Movement; Decolonization; Black Panthers; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Drug Culture; Nonviolence; Class Privilege; Civil Rights Movement; Communal Movement; Woodstock; Folk Song Revival; Black Power; Separation; Malcolm X."}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":515,"3":{"1":0},"4":{"1":2,"2":16370588},"12":0}">Baby boom generation; Civil Disobedience; Kent State University; Students for a Democratic Society; Anti-War Movement; Weather Underground; Lyndon Johnson; Robert McNamara; Women's Rights Movement; Decolonization; Black Panthers; Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; Drug Culture; Nonviolence; Class Privilege; Civil Rights Movement; Communal Movement; Woodstock; Folk Song Revival; Black Power; Separation; Malcolm X. Subject LCSH Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Veterans; Educators; Gaffney, Harry--Interviews Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harry Gaffney Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gaffney, Harry ; McKiernan, Stephen Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/wav Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Veterans; Educators; Gaffney, Harry--Interviews Description An account of the resource Harry Gaffney is an educator, administrator, and Vietnam War veteran. He currently is the CEO of Strategic Leadership Management. Gaffney graduated from St. Joseph's University with a Bachelor's degree in English and Villanova with a Master's degree in Educational Administration. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1997-07-14 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.105a ; McKiernan.Oral.10.2016.105b Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2018-03-29 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. McKiernan Interviews Extent The size or duration of the resource. 112:37 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f3ff43e4ac9d8584476b56e21873f0ed.jpeg aa98ceced7d6ffe739379c9f2c323cae https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d25c47f78b1af5a7c68a379186da184f.mp3 f9809ed6d34f88e39966abfb8d6ba389 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kurdish Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource In 2011, Binghamton University Libraries received the donation of the Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library and Museum Collection. The acquisition opened a dialog with the local Kurdish community in Binghamton, N.Y., which led to the creation of the Kurdish Oral History Project. These interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Kurdish culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Kurdistan. This growing collection holds interviews in English and/or Kurdish with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Kurdistan. The interviewees share remarkable stories of their migration, their persecution in Kurdistan, the resilience of their Kurdish identity in assimilating into the host culture, and the ties they maintain with their homeland in diaspora.<a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/sustain"></a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/76">Vera Beaudin Saeedpour Kurdish Library & Museum Collection Finding Aid</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 23 April 2017 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aynur de Rouen and Marwan Tawfiq Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hawar Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 107:28 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio audio Biographical Text Hawar was born in Mardin where he witnessed the conflicts in his town and village, which forced him and his family to leave. Hawar is pursuing his graduate degree in the United States. Subject LCSH Keywords Kurdistan; Saddam Hussein; Mardin; Iraq; PKK; Binghamton; Broome County; Refugees; Turkish Camps; Kurdish Culture; Everyday life; Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Kurdish Oral History Project Interview with: Hawar Interviewed by: Aynur de Rouen and Marwan Tawfiq Transcriber: Marwan Tawfiq Date of interview: 23 April 2017 Interview Setting: Binghamton University -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:01 MT: Now it is on. 0:03 AD: Okay. So today is April 6, 2017, and we are interviewing with Hawar, and Marwan and I here to interview with you. 0:19 H: Okay. 0:19 AD: So, when were you born and where were you born? 0:22 H: Well I was born in Mardin, the city like in Northern Kurdistan and then the date was 1988, December 12. It is a nice one, 12/12. [laughter] 0:34 AD: 12/12, wow! 0:36 H: Yeah, 1988 yes. 0:39 AD: And is that where you grew up? I mean your house was in the city or outside the city? 0:47 H: Well, no. So we used to live in a village. So it is a village in Mardin but it is like South, not south, like the East part of the city. So it was really like far from the center. And when we came to, like in 1993, so we had to leave our village so because of like the conflict between PKK and then the Turkish Army. So basically, they came to our village and then they offered two options; so one is like take up the guns and fight against the PKK or you had to move your village in two weeks. So, it was just they gave you, gave the villagers two weeks, you know, and you do not know anyone in the town. So, Mardin, the province, the Kerboran or Dargeçit is the town and the village, you know. So, at that time we did not have any like relatives in the town. So, because we were like villagers, you know, we were there for a long time. So they offered two offers and then well we cannot live with guns, you know, and we do not want to kill anyone. And then we do not want to be killed. So my father and the other villagers decided to leave our place. It was 1993. so and then we went to town. So as I said we did not have any relatives and at that time, it was not, our village was not the only one. There were many other villages they had to come to this town, you know, and then it was really hard to place to stay because there were a lot of people and some people had the opportunity to make some money, you know, because a lot of, like, people wanted to rent rooms or a house. So finally, my father found a place and we stayed there. I think it was like for two years, three years and then after that during this time my father built his own house. So that time still we had some problem, you know, because the state or the army was thinking the people who left their places they are helping PKK [The Kurdistan Workers' Party; Kurdish: Partiya Karkerên Kurdistanê] from the town. So, one time my father’s name, his name was on a list, like the killing list [executions list], you know, it was 1996. Well, I mean we just heard that his name was on the list because I mean someone just said something bad to some soldiers or army, we do not know how exactly they got information. So that time and then there was a local election and then so we were really like– my father went to Konya because of this name, his name was on the list, like the killing list and then he said well it is probably will be better not being around the town and then he went to Konya, and then so finally at that time we had election, local election, and then one of the candidate visited, you know, the small town, the candidates like go to, like they visited every houses and they came our place and they said do you have any problem, you know, because it was election, they needed our votes and we said well, I mean he said where is the guy, where is the boss [laughter] and my mom said well he is not here. What happened? Why? And we said well his is on the list so– And the he said well if you collect like twenty votes I can go to the headquarter and talk to the commander and then I am going to say it was a mistake, this is not that guy. So and then my mom, she talked to uncles, aunts, finally we collected twenty votes, you know, and then this time I mean I have 9 siblings but that time they were small, I mean they are young, they did not have like the right to vote. So it was really hard to collect the votes. So finally we collected twenty votes and then we said here is, we said okay we promise, you know, when we said promise, I mean they are going to vote for you, and he said okay and finally, so he did something that my father at that time came back and he built his own place and then 2001 so my father and the two sisters and one brother they were living in Istanbul. They were sending money to town, I mean my mother, you know, it was hard to, they worked over there and we were spending money and then he said well this is not a good idea, I mean you can come to Istanbul. So, in 2001 we moved to Istanbul; village to town, town to province, I mean Istanbul, sorry to Istanbul and then from Istanbul to Alaska. [laughter] So yeah, twenty01 we moved to Istanbul, Tarlabaşı, Beyoğlu [neighborhoods in Istanbul] one like the richest place. It is really expensive place in Istanbul, yeah, any questions? [laughs] 6:34 MT: Did the government provide any support for the families when asked them to leave the villages? 6:43 H: Well no, even I mean they created some problems, you know. They said okay they are still supporting PKK, so for example, we had many animals, you know, goats and sheep and then we did not have place to put them, and then we had sell them really cheap price, you know, it was nothing. I remember it was horrible, you know, you have a lot of animals but you cannot make money. A lot of people wanted to get rid of their animals. No place to put them, you know, to refuge. It was no– We did not have any places. So, it was hard but the government aid, no. I do not remember. 7:24 AD: So, how many siblings do you have? 7:26 H: So, the total number is nine, yeah. 7:30 AD: So, you are number what? 7:33 H: Well, my number is four like from top. 7:38 AD: From top, and both of your parents are alive? 7:43 H: Yes, they, now they live in, well between Istanbul and Mardin. So now my father he is in Mardin. He goes to village and then like and just grow some vegetables, you know. He is happy in the village. He does not like the city life, like Istanbul, you know, it is a crazy city. And then you do not have any land to grow and there is we have like houses like boxes you know. They are really small and so he preferred to live in the village. 8:21 AD: And your mum stays in Istanbul? 8:22 H: Right now yeah she is because my siblings stay at school so she is like she is taking care of the kids but summer time, everyone goes to village and then they will come back when the school starts you know. 8:40 AD: Okay, so what was the language you were speaking at home growing up? 8:47 H: Yeah, well at home we, the Kurdish. I mean like I can say like 90 percent you know. In the village. The town it was 100 because you know, we did not know any Turkish. And still my mum and dad– I mean my dad he knows few words you know when he goes like government buildings he can do his work but he is, he cannot– He is not comfortable to make like a good conversation, you know, because he did not go to any school. 9:19 AD: So, when did you learn Turkish? 9:22 H: So, it was– Well, I can say even like the seventh grade I had like a hard time because like in the town, you know, everyone speaks Kurdish. I mean there is like no Turkish population, you know. 9:38 MT: Even in the village? 9:39 H: No, no the town. 9:40 AD: In Mardin, you mean? 9:42 H: Yeah, the town, yeah because we do not like have any Arabic or Turkish population. The whole town Kerboran is like Kurdish but we had some Assyrians but we killed them, you know, so now we do not have Assyrian population [laughter]. Yeah, I mean so now and then offices, like state, officers, Army but you know they are like scaring, they do not go to outside. Usually they stay at their own places like headquarters. Yeah we do not have like Turkish population. 10:15 AD: So, growing up in the village everybody was Kurdish? 10:21 H: Yeah, all the village. 10:23 AD: Every household? 10:24 H: Yeah, sure yeah. In the village, the whole village is Kurdish, yeah. 10:27 AD: Really? 10:28 H: Yes. 10:29 AD: So, but in the city– 10:31 H: The town. The town still no Turkish, I mean just like officers, like the soldiers, the people who like the teachers, some teachers, doctors; they came from like the Western part of Turkey but the population, the public only Kurdish. 10:47 MT: Are there schools in the villages? 10:50 H: It was a small one but I mean no, it was not a proper one. Just sometimes they had a teacher, just one, sometimes it was like the war, you know between the two sides. So the people they did not want to come to village, I can understand. 11:06 AD: Did you have electricity, running water, things like that? 11:09 H: So no, in village I think it was like the last two years we had kind of electricity. No water. We did not have water. You needed to go to what’s called the fountain and then bring water. 11:23 AD: Çeşme. [fountain] 11:23 H: Yeah. çeşme and then, but in the town yeah, I remember we had the water it was weird, you know, it was my first experience and my brother and I we played with the what it is called this thing, you know, the mechanism, so and then we broke it you know, because it was the first time and then we broke this thing and then my dad said– He was really angry. [laughter] 11:49 AD: Because it was a unique experience. 11:50 H: Yeah, it was a unique, we are– I know it just open the water is coming and close. It was– 11:57 AD: So, you started learning Turkish when you went to school? 12:02 H: Yeah, even we had like some Kurdish teachers. Well I mean they were even Turkish teachers, they were saying something but I mean the students I mean they did not understand anything. So, we had like some students like they are translators you know, they were telling us you know do that. Because I mean we were not able to understand the teachers. It was– Yeah, we had like some middle– Intermediary person, like students. 12:31 AD: So, obviously not in the village but when you lived in Mardin, the city– 12:39 H: Town. You know we never moved to Mardin province, I mean the center. We were in the town, you know. 12:45 AD: So outside of Mardin because I was kind of like surprised that– 12:49 H: Yeah, no not Mardin itself, like town, you know. Like Mardin is the province– 12:52 AD: Kasaba. [town] 12:54 H: İlçe. [district] 12:55 AD: İlçe, okay. 12:57 H: Navçe [area], yeah. 12:59 AD: Okay, so– 13:03 H: Yeah, not Mardin. 13:04 AD: Not in the city. So you never lived in the city of Mardin? 13:08 H: No, no never. Just in town and then from town to Istanbul. 13:12 AD: Okay. So, in the town while you were, uh– So how many years– So which education you completed in town? 13:25 H: So, it was until like sixth grade, you know. Basically the elementary I think. 13:31 AD: Okay, so do you remember like any newspapers published in Kurdish living in town, I do not think in village that would be the case? Do you remember? 13:44 H: Well no. 13:45 AD: No? So Kurdish was, can we say Kurdish was mainly like spoken language? 13:53 H: Well I mean at this time I was a kid, you know, maybe I mean they sell but I was not aware. I was just like my age was like twelve. 14:00 AD: Probably like newspaper you would know your father if he read newspaper right? 14:07 H: But I mean he cannot read, you know. 14:13 AD: Oh, he cannot read? H: Oh yeah, he is like no. AD: Oh, he cannot read in Kurdish either? 14:15 H: No. 14:15 AD: Okay, alright. So, but you guys all went to school, all of your siblings, he raised you and– 14:24 H: School no, like the older– I am the first person who had a chance to go to like higher education. So like my oldest brother and two older sisters they could not go to school because there was moving and then financially we had some like hard time. Like nine kids and then we were really small and then we could not work. So, yeah, I mean my oldest brother he just can read a little bit but he is not– 15:03 MT: So, there were no Turkish people in the neighborhood, in the town? 15:07 H: No, no the town was like full Kurdish. I mean some towns I mean like they are Kurdish we do not have like the Turkish. Some Arabs, maybe neighborhood but our is not, our town was a small one. It is not a town actually it is a big village, you know. It is like 15,000, now it is like 20,000 the population. This is okay but it is not a huge one. 15:41 AD: So, what did your father do as a living when you guys moved to the town? 15:46 H: So, he was working like in construction work you know, like building. He went to Konya a lot. Still I mean I do not know why, the Kurdish they go to like Konya in the middle of Anatolia and they work there. I mean the Kurds are very good at construction work, I mean and my father, my uncles they are very good, you know, they are like good constructors. They know how to build the places and houses, yeah. 16:20 AD: So, you never learnt how to do that kind of work? 16:23 H: Well no, because I– So, when we moved to Istanbul, I was working for like Textile Company or maybe workshop yeah textile. So, we were making some clothes like the ladies, the stuff but like the older people like my dad and then uncle they were busy with construction work, they went to somewhere and then– Yeah to help people in Istanbul. 16:56 H: Okay, so then you moved to Istanbul, so what do you remember about life? Do you remember anything from the village? 17:08 H: Oh, yeah, yeah. 17:09 AD: What do you remember? 17:10 H: Well I remember we were growing like tomatoes, you know, like the fruits and I remember we had like our house, we had like two floors, you know. I think our place was the only one like two floors building like at that time because maybe the tallest one. The tallest building in the village because my dad he went to Konya and then he built another floor, second one but we did not live in the second floor because we had to move. It was really sad, you know, I remember he bought some doors like the wood doors it was nice one probably you might have the same one, not like that one but it was nice I remember that yeah. 18:03 AD: So, did you sell your property? 18:05 H: No. 18:05 AD: You just sold the animals and moved out of the village. 18:10 H: In the town. So we sold our animals in town because in the village everyone has animals, you know. 18:19 AD: Okay, what I mean is so you kept the property, the farm whatever you had in the village, when you moved to the town, I am trying to understand. You did not sell your property? 18:35 MT: What happened to the animals? 18:37 H: I mean they were just there you know. I mean we could not we just left and– 18:40 MT: Everybody left? 18:41 H: Everybody, yeah sure. 18:43 AD: So, it was vacated completely. 18:44 H: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 18:45 AD: So, then when did you guys go back? 18:48 H: So, I mean recently, well not recently, so after 1995 so it was interesting. So, you could go grow or work in your land from 8 (am) to 5 (pm). So you go there, there is like, you need to like, give your ID to the soldiers and then you need to come between like from 8 (am) to 5 (pm), there was like a time you know. After 5 (pm) if you cannot come, you needed to go and then to the headquarters to get your ID, national ID. Yeah it was like some limits, you know. So it was, we did like two – three maybe four years. But sometimes they did not let us, they would say well no, there is fighting over there so you cannot go there. But you had to give your ID because there was one big road to go to the village. It was the only way and all the soldiers were there and then they say okay give me your ID from 8 (am) to 5 (pm). So you needed to come back at five, you know. It was interesting. 19:53 AD: Okay, so but your father can live there now? He is allowed? 19:57 H: Oh, yeah, yeah, he now they are fine. 20:00 AD: When did they allow people to move back to village? 20:02 H: Probably I think it has been at least like maybe ten between ten to fifteen years, yeah, I mean now we have twenty-five houses. Most of the old people you know. I mean they cannot leave in the big cities. And then summer time we– so more people go to village it will be around like maybe forty; you know, like permanent, twenty-five with temporary population is forty. But in 1993 we had like 150 houses, can you believe that. It was a huge, it was big village and it just was evacuated. 20:50 MT: What are the houses made of; I have not seen villages in Turkey? 20:54 H: It was like stone. 20:55 MT: Stone? 20:56 H: Yeah. 20:57 MT: Not, mud bricks? 20:58 H: No, no we use stone. We do not use mud bricks, we do not have it. Yeah it is like regular. It is like brown stones I think. 21:09 MT: Do you have like trees, farms? 21:11 H: Oh, yeah so the Tigris, our village is like really the nice one because we have like a river. So the Tigris is really close to. So we can grow whatever we want, anything. So that is why I mean– 21:31 AD: A fertile land– 21:32 H: Yeah, yeah. It is not like a dry land. Our village is really nice. If you want to see some pictures we can go– 21:34 AD: Yeah, we can look at it. Sure. 21:36 H: And then you might have some more questions. [laughs] 21:40 MT: And how about the land, is it like mountainous, is it like hillside? 21:45 H: Yeah it is. We have a lot of mountains and hilly you know. 21:49 MT: So it is not like a plain land? 21:50 H: No, it is not. Some part, if you go to Facebook, you know, there is a Facebook page yeah. 21:55 AD: Oh, on the Facebook? 21:57 H: Yeah. This guy he is sending some pictures about– 22:04 AD: On your page? 22:05 H: No, if you write DERECA and then yeah the first one. So, it is village, town and then– The first one, oh yeah. I shared something. Yeah. 22:28 AD: This? 22:28 H: Yeah, I mean yeah. It is our village. 22:31 MT: It is nice. 22:32 H: Yeah it is nice. 22:33 AD: It is nice. 22:37 H: So it is mountains, can you believe that? 22:40 AD: Where is the river? 22:42 H: So, it is, I mean you need to come to this– There is like the cemetery. 22:48 AD: Were there like Armenian or Assyrians in the village? 22:53 H: No, not here but like other– 22:55 AD: I know Midyat was full of them 22:57 H: Yeah, Midyat, there are– Well, I mean there are some other posts but ̶ There is like winter and then we have a lot of figs, you know, and then pomegranates. We have a lot of yeah.You know we sleep like summer time on these things, probably you have the same one. Or I mean our village like famous with its figs, you know. 23:41 MT: It is unripe. 23:42 H: It is what? 23:44 MT: It is not ripe. 23:46 AD: It is not ripe. [laughs] These are not yellow right? 23:49 MT: Still baby. 23:54 AD: What is this? Cucumber? 23:57 H: Yeah, not exactly but it is– 24:00 MT: It is a wild cucumber– 24:01 H: Yeah, you can call it that. 24:02 AD: Acur [kind of cucumber]? 24:03 MT: Trozi [kind of cucumber]. 24:05 H: Yeah, trozi. And then yeah, we have– Do you know anything like about the tunnel of Bitlis. So the Bitlis I mean they had this one, like tunnel and then like they got the Vehicle it could not go through, so it like destroyed the tunnel in the Bitlis, you know. It was a really famous but hopefully I mean we keep our tunnel. It is like natural. So is like my cousin. 24:34 AD: Really? It is really nice. 24:38 H: Yes, so. Probably my– Yeah, I do not know my dad might be around here. These are our villagers. I mean our neighbors, these guys. 25:00 AD: So, still only Kurds live in the village? 25:02 H: Yeah. So, she is, so basically her mom is my aunt. So, she is my cousin. I am her like uncle. There is like our school. It is a small school. 25:28 AD: Well it is nice. 25:31 MT: In the village right? 25:33 H: Yeah. 25:33 MT: Is it in Turkish? 25:34 AD: Yeah, that is right. What is the language? 25:35 H: So, I mean it is– So they– 25:36 AD: Both? 25:36 H: No, no, well I mean the teacher probably uses Kurdish a lot, you know, but I mean the textbooks are in Turkish. 25:47 AD: But did not they pass a law like you can also– 25:50 H: Selective course? 25:53 AD: Yeah. 25:53 H: But it does not work. They do not. 25:55 AD: No? They do not teach Kurdish at school? I thought– 25:58 H: So, some places it is about like the principal. You know, if the principal is okay, he said okay, the students can select the language but big part of Turkey they do not let it– Istanbul, I told my like niece and the nephews, they said oaky but the principal said no you cannot take it. It is about the principal you know, if he is okay, if he has like some sensitivity about language, he is going to be okay but most of– I mean my niece and nephews they are not able to take the Kurdish course. 26:33 MT: So, if the principal is Kurdish then it is okay? 26:37 H: Probably yeah, probably but we do not have a lot of like Kurdish principals, you know. It is hard to come to get a high position you know. 26:45 AD: Yeah, or open minded. 26:47 H: Yeah, maybe some like open minded– 26:49 AD: Exactly, it depends on the people. So, you remember– So now this is good that we visualized the village right. So now you– How was in the village? I mean like so you guys were kicked out of the village but was there any like shooting going on? Do you remember? 27:21 H: Oh, yeah. Well, I remember, I mean we had a lot of the militants, you know, they come to our village. I mean our places they stay there at the night time and then in the morning they just leave you know. 27:35 MT: So was it like that the PKK coming and going, using the village as a shelter and for food? 27:44 H: Yeah, yeah, they would come and I remember, so one of the– my cousin basically he is from our village. And then for my grandma always like leave some food on the tree. She knows that he will come and get that food. And then the one we said the PKK, I mean some of them are from our villager, you know, just imagine a mum, of course she is going to provide some food to her son and the other, you know. I remember my grandma always she like left some food and we said, oh the guy he will come and get his food. We always– She like leaves some the food over there. 28:33 AD: Yeah, so how about life in general, other than you know the PKK or– 28:47 H: Well, I mean so it is village, usually the people were busy with land, and you know, winter time they were busy with the animals and the summer like fruits, the land. They were like extraordinary busy, you know, the village life I mean you are going to have the weekdays you have to work, you know all of us we have animals, or you have to take care of your animals and land– 29:06 AD: But did you also like celebrate anything? 29:09 H: I mean so, we had a lot of weddings. You know, village and weddings, and then I remember my dad was like celebrating Newroz. You know, you can see we had a lot of hills. So, they knew the army will come and, what it is called? When they see like the fire they will come and then my dad and his friends they knew the army is coming they would go to another hill, they were going to make fire at that hill. I was like, the army or the soldiers were following the villagers you know, from the hills to the mountains, you know. So and they would have fire everywhere. It was like– 29:51 AD: So they were not allowing you to celebrate Newroz? 29:53 H: Oh, no, no. 29:54 AD: No? 29:55 H: No, it was like a political event, you know, I mean it was banned. 30:04 AD: How about religious like eids or bayram or whatever, were you celebrating those? 30:15 H: Oh, yeah, I mean they were like big events, like the two holidays, and the weddings, the Newroz– what else. Yeah– 30:30 MT: How about Turkish celebrations? 30:33 H: Well I mean so, we do not have them, because we do not have school. So usually these celebrations belong to school, Cumhuriyet Bayramı [Republic Day], you have to have principal, teachers, the students and you know they are going to read some poetry. 30:51 AD: But I think that is the biggest one but like right now I think they got away with it, so but when I was little in school. They were so many days, official days like celebrated now with each political party they eliminated them. 31:09 MT: Because in Iraq, like now so many holidays, celebrations connected to the Baath party, to the government. 31:20 H: Yeah, the foundation of the country, the leader, his birth on that day. [laughs] 31:27 AD: I know. 31:27 H: But the village, no we did not have this official, that is why we were not familiar with Turkish, like the official discourse, you know. Like flag or like the anthem because if we do not have school, I mean so I remember just I saw the flag, so when the soldiers came to the village you could see, you know, the flag and then there was still a flag on the hats and that is all I mean maybe some vehicles, you know, they put flag on the vehicles, yeah that is all. So one time we saw the flag, I mean we had to evacuate our village, you know, so we had some not positive feelings about flag. I mean personally I hated it because they came and we saw that and they say you had to leave your village, and then before that I mean so the villagers resisted, they said no we do not have place to go and then they like gathered people, villagers and they were like making fun of the people in front of the whole village and then they like beat people, you know, they took like my dad and then the villagers like to town before the process of leaving, and then they detained five, six days and then when they came back, I mean they were horrible, you know. They, like they got tortured and then it was really bad, yeah. 33:08 AD: But in town you were in school, so then you had to observe the national holidays right? 33:17 H: Yeah, that time, yeah sure. I mean the May 19th, you know. 33:22 AD: Yeah, the May 19th, April 23th but I think, are not they got away with that with AKP [Adalet ve Kalkınma Partisi; Justice and Development Party] now? 33:26 H: Right now I do not know. I do not know. 33:29 AD: I think AKP is like doing everything 33:32 H: You know like the anthem, what was it “andımız” [our pledge], no yeah, they do not do that anymore but the other like maybe the May 19th, the Republic holiday, Cumhuriyet Bayramı, I do not know. 33:49 AD: I think they still keep that because that is the biggest one. But I remember when I was a child, like 27th of May was a national holiday all because they killed the prime minister, you know, the Democratic Party, then after that they decided that was not a nice thing to do, so they eliminated that. You know, things like that, you know, people come and change things, so. 34:18 H: Yeah, probably it is about the place. So which place are you talking about. Yeah, the Ankara maybe with Istanbul, the Izmir, probably more– It is like really, like obviously visible but the village, the town, still the fighting, I mean still the PKK come to the town, they were fighting you know, you can see the bullets at the night, yeah, you can see, I mean, and in the morning so when you would go outside you can see a lot of donkeys and then horses being killed, you know. [laughs] 34:57 AD: Yeah. 34:57 H: Still I mean in the state, officers were not comfortable, you know, because always they come and bomb somewhere with gun, the militants but like other places you said Ankara, probably it is because no fighting over there, people and then you can see the state it is can like move. 35:21 AD: So, people were close to each other both in village and town? 35:25 H: Oh, yeah sure, the village, still I mean everyone knows each other and then in Istanbul we most of the people from our village they live around neighborhood, so still I mean the people wants to keep their like relationship because they are the only group they know each other. It is like in the diaspora you know much better, they want to keep their kinship and the relatives, the village, feelings, you know, over there. 35:54 AD: I was just going to ask if they keep like that– 36:01 H: Oh, yeah sure, two weeks ago I think, someone just passed away in Istanbul, it is interesting; so when we lose some one we do not bury that person in Istanbul. We got the body all the way back to Mardin; twenty-four hours. It is interesting, you know, still people do not bury their lost ones in Istanbul. It was really– I mean I was curious– It is really a good topic you know, I mean still the people are not comfortable and then I asked my mum, I said mum come on I mean twenty-four hours you got that body from all the way, and she said well, I mean this– We might go back, I mean they still, they do not feel comfortable in Istanbul, they think something might happen, at least our body, our people will be with us. So when you go to our village, or town, it is our land you know, they still have that feelings. It was really interesting. I thought I might go to like study anthropology or something after that conversation. It was really interesting because the body I mean you can like create some conversation on bodies– 37:03 MT: Actually, I think it is about people have this idea they tend to be buried where they were born so– Even in my city, my uncle died and he has been living in there forever but they buried him in his village, so. 37:23 H: This is a good point but I mean so for some villages they do not do that. Like three villagers they are like Kurds I mean everyone Kurds, but these three villagers they do not do that. They bury their people in Istanbul. We do not know why, these three or four village and the people from those villages they do not do that. Yes, I mean it was really interesting. Some do, majority do but the other people I do not know, one of the village they really had a bad time with the state you know, I mean the state destroyed the whole village, I mean the whole, it was really intense, it was really hard, but some, like our village we do, they take their bodies and go to Mardin all the way. 38:15 AD: So tell us, what is your experience in Istanbul, because that is when you really started living with other people, other than Kurds, right? 38:27 H: Sure, I am. 38:29 AD: So, were you like telling people I am Kurdish or were you hiding your Kurdish identity, I am curious? 38:38 H: Well, I mean the school life and the people I mean probably they knew we were not Turkish from our accent, you know. We were not like, we do not, we still, personally I do not have the Turkish accent, you know, people can tell that you are not like one hundred Turkish. So, probably they knew and when they ask where are you from, I would say I am from Mardin, you know, so the Mardin, so if you say like from Erbil, Mardin people know you are Kurd, you are not Turk you know, you might be Arab but most of the time you are the terrorist group, the Kurds, you know. [laughs] The school, yeah, it was really hard you know because they were like making fun of our clothes, but still I mean we have some hard time from the town and then come to the big city. So with the language, with the clothes our culture it was really hard and then I decided not go to high school. I did not go to high school, regular high school. 39:36 AD: Really? 39:36 H: Yeah, I went to, like night school, what it is called, probably. 39:38 MT: Yeah, night school. 39:39 H: Night school, So, I went to night school because like of this pressure, you know, I was not comfortable. So, okay I went to açık öğretim [open university] and then well I mean because of this pressure you know, I was– I did not want to be with these people you know. I did not want to spend four years, another four years with these people, then I said well okay, probably açık öğretim will be better, a good idea. 40:08 AD: So you did not have a good experience with school? 40:11 H: Oh, no. I mean at least I went to school in Istanbul two years, you know, like the 7th and the 8th grades. I mean my performance was not bad. I mean I got some like teşekkür, takdir [honor roll] stuff but still I mean the students, I can tell I have, I mean I learnt a lot from two years, you know I mean in town we did not have computer, you know. First time I experienced computer, I saw like the books, you know, we did not have books. So I can tell, my friends who stayed in town and then I can tell them their education experience were worse, you know, I mean I was able to go to University my first year, you know, so after high school, so I went to directly to University, you know it is enter exam, I mean I was good I got the good point, I mean the score I went to Istanbul University, it was not bad yeah. I can tell like these two years you can see, and then Istanbul this is a kind of like the largest, the biggest and then the most modern, the other places are, you know, not good. So, now I am telling my siblings stay in Istanbul, you know, I mean you can– it is much you have like more opportunity– 41:39 AD: You learn more stuff, yeah. So, did your siblings also experience similar things that you did or were you able to help them what you experienced– 41:49 H: Probably, so I was the first victim you know. Probably my younger brother had the same problem, I can tell. And then he stayed in Istanbul too. He went to Marmara Sosyal Bilgiler [Marmara University, Department of Social Science] and now he is making his own business. You know, he is making some like, what is called, the games to flash cards for the students. It is good. So but the other guys so they did not go to school in town, so I think they were fine and then well maybe my brother and I we had some hard time, you know. But the other guys they were, they all because they did not go, they did not know the differences, you know, between the town, Mardin and then the Istanbul. But we, I mean we saw and we had both experiences. Yeah, and It was interesting in town we were majority, you know, everyone was Kurdish, you know, I mean even at the school, I mean we speak Kurdish, you know, we did not care, I mean the Turkish, speaking in Turkish kind was not a good think, we would say what! Yeah probably you had the same experience in Arabic version, yeah. So, but in Istanbul is a new episode, new chapter. So, we became a minority and be honest I realized my Kurdishness in Istanbul because I mean I did not have any like any Turkish people when I was in town, no Turkish, you know just like a few teachers, doctors and then the other we usually we were with the Kurdish people but Istanbul, so I said oh, I am different you know. [laughs] 43:38 MT: So, and then of course you had like Kurdish friends in the university, right? 43:41 H: Yes, yeah– 43:42 MT: So, were you speaking Kurdish in the university? 43:45 H: Yeah, yeah, I mean not in class you know, but outside, like the coffee shop yes, we were, we were okay. Because my school and Aynur went to the same school, so it kind of has like leftist, like Kurdish tradition you know. We know we will be fine because we had a lot of Kurdish, leftist open-minded people but Marmara it is opposite, another school and Ghazi for example they had like bad reputation. They know like they are the racist, fascist you cannot speak, you cannot have long hair, you know. [laughs] 44:24 AD: Yeah, but, so were you also, so how was your relationship with Turkish people in Istanbul? I know you had a bad experience in high school but as you got older, like how was it? Did you feel, I mean were they still like treated badly when they figured out your Kurdish? 44:47 H: Sure, I mean, yeah after two years I mean I did not go to like high school, and at açık öğretim, night school you cannot make friends, you just study at home and then go to take your exam. That is all, I mean just like four months and you take exam, you know, you like study by yourself. So I was working at the like a textile company, the owner was from Mardin, you know. Still, I mean in Beyoğlu we have a lot of Kurdish people. So I mean I made some Turkish friend at the University, that is all. I mean still I have just a few, you know, maybe up, you like political opinion, what you do, I do not have a lot of Turkish friends. 45:36 AD: Yeah, you do not? 45:38 H: No, I do not. I mean on Facebook I had some and then they were not happy with my sharing, now we are not friend on Facebook. 45:49 MT: If you compare the University to the high school, which was one better in terms of your experience with the Turkish people? 45:54 H: Well, I mean so the university I was really Kurd, you know. I mean I knew, I realized, so our village because when you are a kid I mean, you do not, you cannot like see the whole picture, you know. So why we left our village you know. I mean but at the school and then now you are, you will become an activist or you want to change something or you want to improve something, you know. So I mean, high school yeah, I was Kurd, but I mean, so you are still like a kid and then but at the school we were active as a Kurdish group, we like organized like some lectures, you know, we were calling the people. I remember one time, Sebahat Tuncel, she came to our school, you know, our students, student union at like when you go to the language department, you remember, it is not a part of the Edebiyat [the College of Literature, Arts, and Social Sciences] it is far. 46:56 AD: No, I do not remember. 46:57 H: Maybe they built– 46:59 AD: Yeah, that was (19)90s, 47:02 H: What was the year, what is the year? 47:04 AD: You were not born– 47:05 H: Yeah, Oh my gosh– 47:07 AD: What you mean oh my gosh– 47:12 H: [laughs] It is like before Crisis, you know– 47:16 AD: Before the war. [laughs] 47:18 H: Before the war. 47:20 AD: Which World War, ask. 47:22 H: [laughs] Yeah so– 47:23 MT: So, in terms of University’s student/ treatment with you, were they more open minded than the high school? 47:32 AD: Sure, I mean, you know, being able to go to school, you know, it was like everyone equal, you know. So I mean if you go to the same school, it means you made a good job at the test, and then you were kind of, they cannot like treat you, you are Kurd, I am Kurdish, so yeah, we had like some more freedom I can tell and then we had, we had our own Kurdish group, always who work or go to archive together, write something. It was good. We had few Turkish friends still they, I mean they called our group PKK group. 48:09 MT: So, you had the presence– 48:12 H: What do you mean? 48:13 MT: I mean you were allowed to have a group– 48:15 H: Oh, yeah, yeah, sure to school yeah, we had our own group and then the people, I mean they labelled us as a PKK group, you know, so we did not go to some class they would say Oh, PKK group is not here today, can you believe that [laughs] and then we knew it and okay we are like Kurdish activist but, I mean and then some of us were sympathizers of PKK but everyone was not a PKK. We just wanted to be a Kurdish, civil Kurdish that is all. It was interesting. 48:46 AD: So, and then when you finished college, what did you do? 48:54 H: So, I graduated 2010. 48:59 AD: Oh, recently! 49:00 H: Yeah, recently from history and after that I said well I do not want to stay in Turkey you know. I had two options. So, I said well I go to Sulaimaniya to learn Sorani. And then I got some scholarship, I found a scholarship, they said okay if you go we might help you like Kurdish publishers like publishing, publisher DOS, so the DOS and the K.R.G. [Kurdistan Regional Government], they have some like connections, you know, like for students and then the other one I said well I might come to the U.S. So, I said I have two options, you know, first but my priority I said well I want to go to the U.S. for education, for my higher education. So, I mean I got visa, you know, but my like the second option was Sulaymaniyah. So, I came here I went to Alaska we had like student– 50:13 AD: Alaska? 50:13 H: Yeah, student program, work and travel, probably you know– 50:14 AD: I do not know. 50:16 H: So, there is a program, you can go outside the US for three months and then come back, you know to just have some experiences so I went to Alaska because that time I did not know any English, they said well okay in Alaska you do not need to use English because you know you are not going to speak with fish, [laughs] so I went to Alaska for three months. 50:27 AD: What did you do? 50:28 H: So, fishing. Yeah, really. So we were like cleaning fish and then the processing, you know, for three months and then I went to Chicago. 50:43 AD: Well who were you with in Alaska? 50:44 H: Well there were like some a lot of Students from everywhere, Turkey, from Romania, Russia, Ukraine, you know. 50:51 AD: Did you make friends? 50:53 H: Yeah, we– Yes, I made some. Still we had some Kurdish friends and then so I stayed in the US another guy he came to New York. So, I think I have three or four people decided to stay in the US. The plan was, they say okay, after the program, you had to come back. We said okay, we can stay here you know. We decided to stay. So, I went to– I found like a website, it is Chicago Kurdish Culture Centre. I send an email, and said guys I am in Alaska and then I want to come to meet you and then probably I will stay in the US, do you have any suggestion or what kind of, I mean what do you do, and then they said okay we are here and then I went to Chicago. 51:47 AD: Okay, so and then you started working over there. Do you have a green card or something? 51:56 H: So, no that time, so, I enrolled like for the language courses you know. So I went to school, I mean it was like really that school just it, just the purpose to have like a legal visa, you know. That is all. So, I went to that school for 1 and a half year and then after that, yeah, I got my green card you know and then every year I mean I applied and then I got green card and then I just stayed in Chicago for five years. 52:34 MT: Through Lottery Program? 52:35 H: Yeah. I mean it is really, and then if not– I am not the only one you know. Few other guys they got green card too. 52:48 AD: So, and in Chicago, you only have Kurdish friends? Do you also have Turkish friends? 52:53 H: Well, we have some Turkish friends. So, I was driving Taxi for a while and then– 53:03 AD: Uber– 53:04 H: Well, before Uber, regular taxi, yellow cab and then later Uber. Yeah we had like some Turkish, Kurdish friends. So, yeah when you are here, and then it is like you have to make some like friends you know, so because, you cannot find many people from Turkey. It is kind of necessary, you have to create great or say hi to Turkish people, but now we established a big center, Kurdish Center you know, a physical place to go and so when we, you can stay even there, you know. It is really big. I mean everyone and then now they offer some Kurdish courses like dancing and then they invite people from Academia. 54:05 AD: Yeah, maybe that is what we need to tell Mr. Koçak because that is what I think they are trying to do, to establish. 54:12 H: Well, a few years ago, I mean they had one, so and then the Koçak he paid a lot, he was the, what it is called, the main guy and then I think he decided, well I am not with you anymore and then they could not keep the center in New York. Yeah, but I know they are trying a new one. It is good to have a physical place, you know. I mean students, we, our Facebook page, all these people say hey I am coming to Chicago, do you have like any place, you know, or school or what you offer or what kind of work do you have– 54:53 MT: Guest house? 54:54 H: Yeah, guest house. So, it is good, I mean so that time we did not have that, I had a hard time. I was thinking a hotel, can you believe it. It was really far from Chicago– 55:06 AD: Because it is very expensive in Chicago. 55:09 H: Yeah, so there was no physical place like I was okay to stay at the center you know for like few months but that time we did not have it, and then we said okay how about to establish Kurdish Center. So now, yeah but they are doing a good job you know they are, they can collect money from their members. I am still not paying my membership you know. [laughs] 55:37 AD: Yeah, no but that I think that is a very good idea, absolutely. 55:41 H: Yeah, even I mean here you know, be honest with you, it is like, I am so sad to not have like a çayhane [tea house in Turkish] or like a restaurant, you know sometimes I mean just you want to go and meat people or just you want to have a conversation but here we have around I think around 100 families, yeah, between seventy– 56:05 AD: Really, did it grow that much? 56:07 MT: It is around seventy and seventy– Yeah new families. 56:10 AD: It was seventy-seven. 56:13 H: I mean all they are we having wedding, you know, [laughs] I mean the last one, the last year. I mean the Newroz I met the Zebari family, Botan, you know, so they were there. 56:28 MT: The thing is the families here; the Kurdish families are more assimilated because some families came in 1992, so it is almost two decades– 56:39 H: Yes, probably– sure, yeah, sure. In Chicago we just, we have like Kurdish-American generation coming, you know but here probably they are, so they had already they have some Kurdish-American generation, but I think still they think they are Kurdish at some extent, they can speak Kurdish. They know where they came from, yeah? Maybe they are not full Kurdish like one hundred but still they are not American, you know something is wrong with them, probably they know, you know! Or maybe their color, they are not white [laughs] or black. 57:22 AD: It depends on the person that is my understanding or my observation. Some, as Marwan said that they are like truly assimilated, I mean. Language is the first thing people lose and some of them, you know, even other things. It just depends on the person. By each generation, they are like so much into the host culture, and you forget about your homeland, you know. 57:53 H: Absolutely, absolutely. 57:55 MT: Another thing is that people do not hang out in the social places because they are busy; it is not like back in Kurdistan– 58:08 H: Well, I mean they are just driving Taxi, you know, [laughs] it is interesting I always meet them… few days ago– Just one, he asked me like, the other day I saw him I said “Kaka you are Kurdish,” he said oh, yeah. I knew he was a taxi driver, he was from Kirkuk or somewhere, just here on campus. 58:33 MT: I know him, his name is Salar. 58:35 AD: I mean the thing is, here at least it is like a small city, going one place to another place; you do not spend time. I mean in New York, God just going from one place to another you spend all that time and– 58:50 H: So, here I hope they are going to open or establish some institution or but it the Iraqi Kurds they are not like well-organized to be honest, you know. No, no it is ideologically because it is like not maybe PKK or maybe other Kurdish organizations, I mean we like, we want to come together and do something, you know– 59:18 AD: Cultural censor– 59:19 MT: I am not saying anything. [laughter] 59:20 H: Yeah, they are good like to keep their culture; you are much, much better you know, like your cloth, language. I mean like they are Kurdish, they can do like do anything about language, unfortunately they cannot speak– 59:33 MT: If you are talking about me, I am more Kurdish here than I was in Kurdistan– 59:35 H: Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, being outside of the homeland, you know it is really bias, you are right. 59:44 AD: Yeah, speaking of clothes, like your like, your mum, your dad, what kind of clothes are they wearing? I mean we know what you are wearing. 59:58 H: Well, I mean so my mum just like classic well I do not have her picture at home. So, she is like classic like scarf, you know, the white one, like classic Kurdish mother, at least in Mardin mothers they– 1:00:15 AD: Anatolian, you know like– 1:00:16 H: It is not, no. Like we can go and then I can show you– 1:00:19 AD: In Anatolia, you know köylü kadın [peasant woman)– 1:00:21 H: No, no, they are different– 1:00:23 AD: Really? 1:00:25 MT: Do you know the Iraqi Kurdish clothes, outfit? Is it like that? 1:00:29 H: It is kind of but you are more– 1:00:30 AD: Where I am going to go? 1:00:32 H: So if you go to google just write like the– like Mardin, yeah, okay, let us see. Well if you go not that far– No if you go to like images, so now– 1:00:58 MT: Is it like that? 1:01:00 H: So, like our old women they do it but I mean– It is like new– 1:01:07 AD: How about this? 1:01:09 H: It is maybe but if you can tell like between twenty to forty– 1:01:14 AD: This is Anatolian– 1:01:16 H: No, no, that is it– 1:01:18 AD: Do you see what I mean? 1:01:20 H: I know, if you go try to write Dayk in Kurdish word probably you will find it. Or maybe the Saturday Mothers– Can you write the Saturday Mothers– Yeah, there are many Kurdish mothers from Mardin, so every Saturday they go to like the center of– Yeah this is from Mardin, I mean from our town you know. She lost her like son or the husband and then he or she disappeared, you know, and then they go there and hold their picture. They want their bone you know. They want to have like a grave– 1:02:15 AD: Other than this needle work but that is how all women wear– 1:02:17 H: It is not old, I mean my mother is like not forty, I mean– 1:02:22 AD: Not old, all, all. I do not mean old, all this is very typical. 1:02:27 H: No it is not, you cannot, no. I mean in Turkey seeing hair is fine, no one cares. 1:02:34 AD: This is not typical for Anatolian village women? 1:02:38 H: No, if you go and write Anatolian, they do not wear the white one, and this is special fabric probably you know it, yeah. It is the old woman, and not the old woman– The women who married, they can have it for example my sister, she is not at that level, you know. There is like some age– So yeah. 1:03:03 AD: Okay, so what is so different than the other one? 1:03:07 H: Probably she is Kurdish, [laughs] but usually they are like that, you know. It is colorful but for example, Mardin region is white. 1:03:32 AD: Yemeni [in Turkish, a head scarf made of a loosely woven cotton material], yemeni. 1:03:35 H: Trhi, do you know trhi? 1:03:37 AD: We use the word yemeni, you know what I am talking about? 1:03:43 MT: Is it from Yemen? 1:03:45 H: Yeah. Of course, it is from Yemen. [laughs] 1:03:47 AD: Look, no that is the– If I want to purchase it– There you go that is your brother. 1:03:49 H: Yeah, Kurdish from Yemen, yeah. 1:04:00 AD: [laughs] Yeah, there you go. 1:04:03 H: They are like– 1:04:05 AD: Many different kinds, I do not know, I do not think I have ever seen this kind– 1:04:10 H: Simple white, you know, you do not spend a lot of– 1:04:14 AD: It has like needle work. 1:04:16 H: Yeah, they do some work. 1:04:18 AD: Yeah, I cannot see it here but it is like you go to, I mean I have it at home. My mom gave me some. I have it at home, you know? 1:04:35 MT: How about wedding, how is wedding? 1:04:39 H: In Istanbul, it is usually, I mean– 1:04:43 MT: In town, in village? 1:04:45 H: Yeah, we have like kemançe, do you know kemençe [small violin played like a cello]? 1:04:46 MT: I know kemençe. 1:04:47 H: So, in Mardin we have kemençe– 1:04:48 AD: Like this? 1:04:49 H: Yeah, but now the wedding they are kind of they usually seem like– 1:05:01 AD: Kemençe in Mardin– Is not that Greek I mean yeah from Greek. Kemençe is Black Sea I am sorry– 1:05:06 H: No, no. it is a Stereotype, you know, they just something and they label everywhere– No. 1:05:12 AD: It is not ̶ I thought kemençe is from Black Sea. 1:05:14 H: Well, I mean yeah, the Black Sea the people have too but Mardin we have it. 1:05:22 AD: No, no Greeks taught you. 1:05:24 H: Or maybe we taught them, how about that. [laughs] 1:05:28 MT: Is there singing or just kemençe? 1:05:32 H: Oh, yeah, there is singing. I mean if you go to, there is a really famous one, do you want me– Can I write– 1:05:34 AD: Yes please. 1:05:35 H: And it is from our town, you know. Oh my Gosh– 1:05:39 AD: So, I thought zurna [wind instrument] and davul [bass drum] I mean I am not stereotyping but I thought that was the culture. I never heard of kemençe of– There you go. 1:05:56 MT: We do not have kemençe in Kurdistan– 1:06:00 H: Yeah, it is some region, you know. You have some region, every region has their own special things so Mardin we have that guy. 1:06:06 AD: I never heard of that before. 1:06:10 H: Do we have like speakers? Oh no yeah? 1:06:18 AD: I do. 1:06:19 H: Oh, you do. So, this guy is– 1:06:20 AD: You need to plug it in I guess. 1:06:21 H: Oh, yeah. So, he is really I mean– [music playing] 1:06:28 AD: I would think this is a Black Sea music. No, here. 1:06:32 H: Oh, sorry. So, but I think like the makam [tune] is different. I mean the Kurdish and probably, it is really sad music, you know. 1:06:49 AD: But it is fast just like, oh come on. 1:06:52 H: The cancel is not working– 1:06:58 MT: I think this is lawk [a type of Kurdish song]– 1:06:59 H: Yeah, So I mean he is– 1:07:01 MT: This is Sorani? 1:07:03 H: No man– but anyway, we have that guy. He is really– 1:07:26 MT: But this is called rabab– 1:07:31 H: Yeah, it is the same thing, rabab. Yeah, do you have rabab? 1:07:34 MT: We do not have it but I think this is not kemençe. 1:07:38 H: Yeah, rabab– 1:07:39 AD: [speaking Turkish]– 1:07:51 H: It is a village really close to our village. So, yeah. 1:08:06 MT: So have you been back to Turkey since? 1:08:09 H: No, not yet. 1:08:11 AD: When did you arrive here? 1:08:14 H: 2010. 1:08:15 AD: And you have not been back? 1:08:17 H: No. 1:08:18 AD: Don’t you miss your mom? 1:08:19 H: I mean yeah, I do. I mean we speak on WhatsApp [laughs] or maybe Skype. Maybe not this summer, maybe the next summer I might go. And now Turkish is not a great country I mean at this time, so. 1:08:36 AD: Yeah, it is not. You are right. It is dangerous. I mean it is dangerous to travel everywhere. So it is not just. You never know when will they attack, how will they attack, so there is no time to relaxing anymore. You just like– That is the new normal but yeah, they did a lot of attacks and now we are really living Halabja in Syria right. 1:09:10 MT: You said when you were in the village, some people, some young people joined PKK forces– 1:09:16 H: Oh, yeah, yeah. 1:09:17 MT: So did government know about that and did put pressure on the families to get them back? 1:09:23 H: Yeah, yeah. Probably they knew I mean. They came sometimes like for like census or they ask like the army you know, or where is this guy, you know he just disappear or where he is and then they can get suspicious or they can ask someone. 1:09:40 MT: Because in Iraq when somebody would join Peshmerga, the Iraqi government would give the family two options, either bring them back or leave. So many people left like, they had to leave especially in Kirkuk. They had to leave the town or wherever they were residing. 1:10:03 H: Yeah, yeah. We had kind of the same problem. 1:10:06 MT: In many cases they were like bringing a truck, loading the stuff and take them out of the city. 1:10:25 AD: Yeah this is hard. 1:10:27 H: Yeah, this time between like 1990s and 2000 it was really harsh. 1:10:37 AD: Yeah, I think that was the worst, like after 1980 I mean although you were not born then but I think that was really like tough time for a lot of people not just Kurds particularly Kurds but I think a lot of people. I mean politically active people I should say. Yeah, that was unfortunately that time. So did you have like really bad experience with Turkish people, like discriminating you living in Istanbul? 1:11:20 H: Well, I mean even in Chicago, you know. So the first time I needed to find a job, you know, so the first thing I went to and found a restaurant, like Turkish-Kurdish restaurant like from the Turkish names. And then I called one I said hey do you need someone. He said oh, yeah we need someone. He is leaving tomorrow. So yeah, you can come and then work in the kitchen. I said okay. And then like the next day I went to the restaurant I said hey I just called you yesterday, Yashar. So this is a nick name I like bear. So yeah, I said I am the guy yesterday I called you, well and then he saw me and my accent– He said where are you from brother. I said from Mardin. He said well our guy he said he is not going to leave the position– 1:12:07 AD: You are kidding me! 1:12:09 H: Yeah. And then I said okay, that is fine. 1:12:13 MT: You should have said I am from Istanbul. 1:12:15 H: Well, I mean he can tell from your accent and then I was kind of naïve and then said I am from Mardin. 1:1:12:20 MT: How long did you live in Istanbul? 1:12:24 H: Well so after like 2001 to 2010, around ten years. Yeah. 1:12:31 MT: And you still have an accent! 1:12:34 H: Well not heavy but I mean people can tell you know. I mean from it is I mean like linguistically we do not have any problem but the accent you know it is– 1:12:44 AD: Even accent, but the thing is when, if I talk to you, I would not automatically think you are Kurdish not that it would matter to me but a lot of people speak Turkish with accent. I mean people from the city like Istanbul, Izmir, Ankara, you know in big cities they speak with no accent but other than that a lot of people speak with accent. And then so I mean you could come from the East, you would not be Kurdish, I mean I do not know it is not an automatic elimination, you know what I mean? 1:13:28 H: Yeah, but yeah, when you say, they see you and you say from Mardin. They say okay he is Kurdish. I mean even then if you are Arab or something, they know the Arab, they do not have any problem. They accept what the state tell them. So but the only problematic group is Kurdish, you know, they say well we do not accept, we are going to resist so this is the problem. So when you accept it you are fine, you can be like even the president, you would be a great Turkish but we have like a huge Kurdish population and then we do not want to be assimilated that is all, you know. We want to– we do not want to be Turks, you know. I mean now Arabs, they do not have anything, they cannot speak their language, I mean some of them they are like racist and Turkish they said because they are not Turkish they are pretending to be Turkish, you know because they want to be told oh, they are great Turkish citizen, you know because the flag or being Turkish is the only way to not being bothered, does it make sense? Like the other Chechen’s they are like racist you know, they are not Turkish but they are racist like the normal common Turks you know, [laughs] the outsider when you come from– When you are not from the original land, so I mean it is one way to keep, you know– to show you are like a good citizen. [laughs] 1:14:55 AD: Yeah, I was told about that like these Muslim– 1:14:57 H: Bursa, can you believe it, Bursa like they are Albanian, most of them Albanian from Bulgaria, from the Balkan area and then it is not a good city, not nice one. 1:15:12 AD: Muslim minorities for some reason they came from Balkan and they are more racist than the original Anatolian, you know, living there. I heard about that and I read about that too, yes. It is interesting because they themselves dealt with, you know, discrimination while living in those countries and all of a sudden they are in, you know, in the Turkish nation state and they just behave that way. 1:15:53 H: So, they cannot speak their language, keep their culture, you know. I mean if you ask like the Albanians or the Chechens, probably there is nothing, you cannot see the differences but this like the Kurds I mean at least we have our Newroz. When you go to wedding, you can tell this is a Kurdish Newroz, I mean the wedding or the– One time so my mum we went to hospital, like I think six months we needed to go to a hospital. So, one time she always like wearing this scarf you know, the white one and then so she does not know Turkish, we always speak Kurdish and then the person who is like at the front desk said oh what do you want, she realized we are not Turks and my mom, I mean when you look at her, oh she is not Turkish, not like great citizen and then she said oh well doctor is not here so you need to come here again you know. And we knew, at that time he or she was there we had an appointment you know. She said no come on another day, call the hospital, get another appointment and come back, you know, the hospital Şişli Etfal yeah, I mean, and then you can, mum said then– Yeah man I mean they can like hide their identity you know but women, mum generation yeah it is– One time we went to like a movie, a movie theatre. A Kurdish movie; Min Dit [The Children of Diyarbakır, 2009 by Miraz Bezar]. The movie was Kurdish and I said let us go to the movie. It was the first time, history, [laughs] my mum and she was so happy. It was weird, you know. She was always like. I said okay, come next to me so that we can have a conversation. Said no, you can go and then, there was like a distance like three or four steps, probably same thing, the women cannot like walk next to you. They are always, they come from the back, you know. I do not know, the poor mentality, you know, so it was weird so we talked but she was back and then I thought come on I am not your husband I am your son so we had conversation and then but she did not come next to me, you know. So, she [the monitor] was like checking around to see if she [my mother] is coming or not. [laughs] 1:18:22 AD: Are you serious? 1:18:24 H: Yeah. Well I mean even I mean probably the men and the women they do not eat like together sometimes, you know? 1:18:29 MT: Is that in Istanbul? 1:18:31 H: Yeah. 1:18:32 AD: In Istanbul? 1:18:33 H: Yeah, yeah. 1:18:35 AD: Segregation? 1:18:36 H: Sure, sure. 1:18:39 AD: I am shocked– It is like I am really– 1:18:42 H: You have to read more [laughter] and then probably the children, just imagine eleven people. It might be easier to eat six or eight you know, and then but usually I mean everyone has like some position, you know, the women and then men, still I mean we have these things– 1:19:03 AD: Separation? 1:19:04 H: Yeah, yeah. 1:19:05 AD: In eating? No, I understand that but like I thought– 1:19:10 H: Guest, I mean especially, you know, the guest, the woman they do not come like to the men’s room. They have their own room. 1:19:21 AD: Well, because it is still male dominated culture. 1:19:25 H: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean still I mean even I mean you know PKK says we cannot see differences between man and woman, no it is practically at home you did not do anything, you know. Okay I mean of course we have some female fighters but it is being in mountain and then the living city life totally different– 1:19:49 MT: Okay, I am curious, how is the role of religion in Kurdish populated areas? 1:19:57 H: In Mardin or Istanbul? 1:19:59 MT: In general. Let us say in the Eastern part. 1:20:06 H: So, I mean still the people are really religious, I mean Sunnis, even we are Shafi’i and Turkish are Hanafi. So, you can see that in Istanbul, so when we go to some Hanafi Mosque, so you know, we do that and then the Hanafi, the guy next to him was weird, looking at you, and then you are not comfortable you know, no tolerance you know. And then even when you do it they are like Allahuma Salli [peace be upon the prophet] it is like you know, he is doing something wrong, no it is like the Mazhab is nothing, you are doing that, nothing– 1:20:42 MT: I heard that people are not very religious in Kurdistan North. 1:20:47 H: It is about region, if you go to some region they are Alwais, they have like different agenda, the Alwais people, but like Van, Mardin this is Sunni, they are still Sunni. So the people go to the University, probably they are more open-minded and secular, but public life no. I mean in Friday, you cannot see like man outside, you know they are going to like through some stone, you know. [laughs] 1:21:13 MT: Like, I mean it is not about the sect, it is about commitment to religion, does everybody or the majority of the community pray five times a day, going to mosque? 1:21:26 H: Yeah, most of them. Yeah, absolutely. They do. 1:21:29 AD: Even the young generation? 1:21:33 H: So, yeah, like the people who live in Istanbul probably they do not, but in the Kurdish region, village to town, they still do it. 1:21:43 AD: Yeah, probably yeah but in the city– 1:21:46 H: Well, still I mean some religious people they keep doing that, you know. They tell their, still I mean my mum always she call me my dear son, pray, you know, like five times. Yeah, I mean she has this concern. She did the same thing to the other siblings too. So, yeah, this is about the family, you know. 1:22:07 AD: And how about you guys, your siblings, do they follow it? 1:22:12 H: Well, I mean they do. I mean they are maybe, I do not know, to be honest. But they are fasting, I know that, so the men they go to like Friday Prayers. 1:22:24 AD: They pray five times a day? 1:22:27 H: Well, I do not know that because it has been a long time I am here, I mean I cannot [laughs] check them but I can tell they do, this for my family they do that. They go to mosque, they pray like five times. Yeah, [it is] about family and about father you know. If the father is like secular or I mean maybe he is not okay with religion, probably his family and son, daughter, they do not and they are not care about this traditional or religion but this is I can tell about the family. 1:23:06 AD: Let me ask you a question. 1:23:07 H: Sure. 1:23:08 AD: So, like Dersim, a lot of Kurds live there, so and majority of them are Alevi– 1:23:21 H: Yeah, sure. 1:23:22 AD: So, like but they are still Kurds, Kurdish people. The only separation is in the religion– 1:23:28 H: Yes. 1:23:29 AD: So, how do you fell about that, you know? I am talking about because you are from, you know, Northern Kurdistan, like how people think about Alevi Kurds? 1:23:43 H: Well, I mean, from my family they are not aware be honest, they do not know what is Alevi [A group of people who are adherents of a specific Shi'a strand of Islam] or Kızılbaş [A wide variety of Shi’a groups (ghulāt) that flourished in Anatolia from the late 13th century onwards, you know. 1:23:52 AD: Really? 1:23:53 H: My dad and mom they do not know, they are, I mean, when you do not go to school, and when you do not travel, you cannot see the differences. So they still, but my siblings they are aware, you know. They said, they are Kurds, they are Alevi, we have Jewish, Ezidis, a lot of like Kurds but they are Kurds but for my dad, I mean they are not aware, you know, like the differences but the siblings they know. 1:24:16 AD: So, how do you I mean would you marry an Alevi Kurd? 1:24:21 H: Why not, if she is beautiful why not, I will marry her. [laughter] Yeah, yeah, that is fine. 1:24:27 AD: No problem? 1:24:28 H: No. 1:24:28 AD: Okay, alright. 1:24:30 MT: How about female’s role in the families in the Kurdish region? 1:24:36 H: Well I mean, so now many [of the girls] can go to school. I mean they have education but the girls who cannot go to, I mean they have like totally different life, you know. But I think it is much, much better than before, you know? 1:24:55 MT: But it is still not equal? 1:24:57 H: No it is not, it is nowhere I mean still I mean like layers you can see, like invisible layers between like female and male genders you can tell. I mean still I mean here you know, I mean the female they have lower salary in the US, you know that? 1:25:16 AD: Do not I know that! 1:25:17 H: Yes, I mean they are everywhere [not equals] unfortunately, so why we do not have like female president– The public or people are not ready or they do not want to– Clinton– [laughs] 1:25:27 AD: No, no. America is a very conservative country– I have always said that. 1:25:33 H: Yeah, absolutely yeah, they might look like, the students can be– Might be crazy, but yes you are right it is conservative so when you come to– 1:25:43 AD: Absolutely. 1:25:44 H: Yeah, but now it is like TV I can tell usually my family they watch the Kurdish channels and they see always the females, Garela’s they have like gun, they can see the female has a gun. So it is, they imagine totally different, you know. In the past I mean women they did not have that picture but now we have some female fighters. You know, I mean probably their imagination has been changed totally, you know I mean, they cannot beat their daughters– I mean there is the option that they [daughters] can go to the mountain. It is a good reason to go to the mountains. If you want to marry with someone, they say okay you are not allowed, okay, go to mountain. [laughs] You have many people they just go to the mountain because I mean they say life it is like not meaningful or the girl I love they did not give me but now it is most of the fighter’s like from school you know, education. I mean the university from our not from own class but, I know some the students who were studying like, held doctor, I mean medical they joined the PKK, many of them yeah. 1:27:07 AD: So, would you marry a Turkish girl? 1:27:11 H: No, [laughs] no I am kidding. Well, yeah but– why not– 1:27:17 AD: Why not! It depends on the person. So, what do you think about living in the United States, let us talk about the United States because you have been living here for seven years. So like did you deal with discrimination other than Ayyu [a person] or whatever his name? Like in, from America did you deal with any discrimination here? 1:27:48 H: Well, I think not really– They might have not– 1:27:56 AD: Not as a Kurd, as a foreigner– 1:27:59 H: As a foreigner, yeah– 1:28:01 AD: Because majority of the people probably do not know– 1:28:05 H: Well I think the Americans they know how to deal with immigrants. So I mean I did not feel it you know. I mean, maybe behind you they might say something but in the face to face I have not faced a bad experience or like Oh you are an immigrant go back to your country! 1:28:24 MT: Have you worked here? 1:28:26 H: Yeah, I mean I was driving you know. Taxi, limousine, Uber– 1:28:32 AD: Who were the employers? 1:28:38 H: Well I mean Taxi Company. So one of the guys was Jewish you know. And then the Uber it is like– 1:28:48 AD: I mean who was doing the hiring? 1:28:50 H: I mean so, yeah they were immigrants too, you know. So the taxi company about Uber I mean most of them were white American. So when you go to the office, when you are like you needed to update your phone or when you have some problem if you go to office, you would see like most of the employees they were like white Americans. 1:29:17 AD: Management staff. 1:29:19 H: Yeah, yeah. 1:29:23 AD: So what do you think about the life style here, in the United States? 1:29:34 H: Well I mean life, I mean be honest no one cares about the other. I mean it has been almost like one year I mean I do not know my neighbor. I know he is like Indian, so sometimes at the door we say to each other but it is totally different than home town, you know. Welcome to a new world, it is really different. 1:29:55 AD: Yeah, so do you miss anything about homeland? 1:30:00 H: Oh, yeah, yeah of course I mean the families especially now our town, you know, we have some like memories. Honestly and then all these, when you wake up the first thing to be honest in the bedtime I go check tweeter you know. So, do we have like bad news or no? The first thing to be honest our worries I mean because like few months ago like the Kurdish towns I mean like Cizre, Nusaybin, you know, like around ten cities and our towns too, Kerboran [Dargeçit] I mean it was curfew so the people were not allowed to go outside for twenty days. So than I was always calling my friends, they were teachers, they are teaching over there, they said yeah, we had really bad time. So we cannot go to outside and cannot meet our friends. Yeah, you of course miss your friends, your village. It is specially families and friends you know. 1:31:02 AD: Yes, and food of course, right? 1:31:06 H: Yeah, yeah I mean we can have like revani [syrupy semolina desert], you know here– [laughs] 1:31:11 AD: Or you can have some bulgur [cracked wheat]. 1:31:13 H: Yeah, I mean when I go to Chicago I brought some sawar, you know, bulgur. And by the way the Euro Market, they have it but their bulgur is not good. I do not know it is not nice– 1:31:26 MT: You can get Turkish bulgur in Ali’s Halal– 1:31:31 AD: Where is Ali’ Halal? 1:31:33 MT: He knows. 1:31:35 H: I mean the Ali kasap [butcher]– that guy– 1:31:39 MT: Yeah, it is near to the mosque. 1:31:40 AD: Oh, yeah, kasap– 1:31:41 H: She does not, she go to yeah– 1:31:44 MT: And the best number two– 1:31:47 H: Is what! 1:31:48 AD: [laughs] 1:31:49 MT: Number two. 1:31:51 H: What is number two? 1:31:54 MT: The coarseness. 1:31:55 AD: Bulgur has numbers like what grade it is. 1:32:00 H: Oh, really. I did not know that. 1:32:01 AD: See, there you go. Yea, see he figured it out, because he is a gourmet cook, I am telling you. 1:31:49 H: Oh, it is like some types of bulgur? 1:32:14 AD: There you go. 1:32:16 MT: Yeah. 1:32:16 H: Oh, so, and Chicago it is the big one. 1:32:24 MT: The big one is number three– Number two is perfect. 1:32:27 AD: Number one is probably for kısır [bulgur salad]. 1:32:30 H: Okay. 1:32:32 MT: So, he did not talk about food. Is your food different from the Turks or almost the same? 1:32:41 H: Well, I mean Middle East Kitchen is– 1:32:46 MT: But still like there are some differences– 1:32:48 AD: But regional differences, for example the kitchen of Mardin, Kitchen of Van, you know. And they’ve this Urfa Kebab or Adana Kebab, but what is like main dish, like what is the main dish your mum makes and you miss so much for example. 1:33:06 H: Yeah, so probably trshik, you know. Trshik probably the one ̶ 1:33:15 AD: What is the trshik? 1:33:17 H: So, it is like the combination, not combination– 1:33:20 MT: Trshik is just like kebbe but the outside is from fine bourghul the inside is like qeema [minced meat], onions– 1:33:29 AD: İçli köfte– 1:33:30 H: Yeah, probably– 1:33:32 AD: Right? 1:33:33 MT: What is içli köfte, it is uncooked? 1:33:36 AD: No, it is cooked– but do you fry it or boil it. 1:33:41 MT: No, boil it in soup, in like tomato soup. So, there is like vegetable, usually– 1:33:47 AD: Okay, so that is healthier version because I think the other one is from Adana or whatever, you fry it but people love that– People love that I never liked it, I am not fond of that. It is too heavy. 1:34:04 MT: Well, we say köfte– I knew that– 1:34:08 AD: Well, Armenians make that too because it is like common– 1:34:11 H: Yeah, sure, sure yeah. 1:34:13 MT: I did not know that it was called trshik until I came here then my wife told me– 1:34:18 H: Yeah, I mean for trshik there might be like some different kind so it is like vegetable you know. Our Trshik is like vegetable so we use like dried– 1:34:31 AD: So, this is what I was talking about– This thing. 1:34:35 MT: No, no this is– We call it kebbe. Let me write it. 1:34:41 AD: Well that is not, you know, I think that is the Arabic name for it– 1:34:56 MT: Yeah. Let me write it. 1:34:58 AD: What is the– Go ahead. 1:35:00 MT: [typing] 1:35:05 H: You could go to the images– 1:35:10 MT: Yeah, this is the one. 1:35:15 AD: Huh, that is köfte? 1:35:20 MT: Oh, yeah. but it is not round actually, this is round. 1:35:31 AD: So, what else? 1:35:33 H: Well, you know– 1:35:35 AD: I see. Yeah, this is like regional and I do not know this dish at all. I mean we have like Köfte but it is like smaller one than you make it like that, we call it sulu köfte, but this is like a little different I think. Yeah. So, what else? 1:36:03 H: Well, I mean you know, homemade food is different, you know. I mean you know when your mum makes it ̶ 1:36:08 MT: This food, you will never find it delicious in restaurant because women make it better– 1:36:18 AD: Absolutely, well there are like in Istanbul now the elite, they just– There are like people some women-built business and they make these home-made foods and then the elite people who do not cook they buy food from there but just like, you know, home-made except the other people bring and you know– 1:36:44 H: Yeah, probably there are some places– 1:36:47 AD: No, there are businesses like that. 1:36:49 H: But even, yeah, I mean when you like make food for money you just rush, you know, probably you do not like– 1:36:58 MT: It is never the same way when you make it at home– 1:37:04 H: And you know, the moms they know they make this food for their children and especially they want to like everything should be perfect– 1:37:11 AD: And like to me, I personally think the best cook in the world is my mom’s– 1:37:16 H: Yep, there you go, that is it! 1:37:15 AD: And I am sure you feel the same way– 1:37:17 MT: Because your taste buds has grown to like their food– 1:37:21 H: Yeah, there you go. 1:37:25 AD: That is right. Like my daughter when I took her to Marwan’s house. She fell in love with the rice and then she is like, when will you make, because she was like Marwan’s wife, she made the anneanne’s rice. Anneanne is grandmother [in Turkish]. Because the way they made the rice reminded her my mother’s rice so for her that is the best rice because I make it healthier, I cut down on butter whatever– So when she ate the rice she was like, oh my God that’s Nanny’s rice. When did she came here and make the rice [laughs]. Yeah, so. 1:38:16 H: Here we do not like have good place, restaurant– 1:38:20 MT: We do not have any Kurdish– 1:38:22 H: Even Mediterranean or Middle Eastern– 1:38:25 AD: Not here. No. 1:38:26 MT: If you are looking for a good restaurant that tastes like Turkish or Iraqi, then you should go to Michigan– 1:38:34 H: Oh, Michigan! 1:38:36 MT: Detroit– 1:38:38 H: Oh, Detroit, I think there are a lot of Arabs over there. 1:38:40 AD: I think New Jersey have some ̶ 1:38:42 H: New Jersey, yeah of course and New York. 1:38:45 AD: And then bakkal [small grocery store], Turkish bakkal I heard in New Jersey, so maybe when we go over there we stop at the bakkal. 1:38:55 H: When you go Nashville, there are like Duhok Tandoor, and it is not bad. Yeah, when I was there I got some like sandwich it was good. The mother is making some food, so when you go there probably you should try some. 1:39:15 MT: Hopefully I go. 1:39:17 H: I mean the boss is going to send you. Yeah, you are going to send him? [laughs] 1:39:22 AD: I am trying, I am trying. I really hope so. 1:39:26 H: Do you want to go? 1:39:27 MT: Absolutely. 1:39:28 AD: Yeah, why not. 1:39:29 MT: Very excited about it, actually. 1:39:33 H: Oh, really? I went too times but they do not have like centers, you know. 1:39:39 MT: The problem if you go there they do not have guesthouse– 1:39:41 H: They have mosque. They do not have it. 1:39:43 AD: All those people, they should create one guesthouse, seriously! 1:39:50 MT: Hotels are very expensive over there. 1:39:52 H: You know what! One time I went to– So, and my friend we were there– There was like a festival, art festival, like three, four years ago and then so we said okay we might. We stayed at a hotel because in the morning, we found the address and we did not know that they do not have anything, you know, and then we found the address and we went there. I mean we just knocked on the door and someone just waking up and said what is going on. I said are you Kurdish, the center, Kurdish Center. He said, oh well I think here. He was sleeping you know, it was so funny. And it was they did not have the center but they just put like a residential address to online. Yeah it was so– 1:40:41 AD: Yeah, I think they should have some– Marwan maybe you can initiate something– 1:40:49 MT: Yeah. I mean the people over there are very active actually, they have this Kurdish Professional Group on Facebook, recently there was some job openings so they were trying, encouraging young Kurdish people to apply. So they made a campaign in the mosque, I saw it on Facebook. 1:41:12 H: Yeah, Salahaddin. And there is like Kurdish police officer, you know in Nashville, the first one. You know that– 1:41:31 AD: Yeah, yeah. I read the article about it– 1:41:33 H: Yeah, it is about him. [laughs] 1:41:35 MT: I did not know that. 1:41:36 AD: So, anything else you can think of? 1:41:38 MT: Are you going to go home once you are done? 1:41:40 AD: Yeah, that was another question. 1:41:42 H: Oh, so now Turkey is not good and now this month I am going to apply for citizenship application. 1:41:54 MT: No, no I mean once you get your citizenship and PhD, are you plan to live in Turkey or Mardin? 1:42:01 H: Well, I mean it does not matter, I mean at this time. I can like serve the Kurdish people. It does not matter here. I might like go to the Iraqi Kurdistan, KRG at that time, they might like have some a stable and better economy why not, and then maybe Mardin University would not be bad ̶ 1:42:20 AD: And there are other universities in the Eastern part of Turkey. 1:42:24 H: So the Mardin one I think was the best one. There was a Kurdology and then they just, so now the people, the scholars over there they lost their jobs, you know, like Nilay was one of them and the other people– 1:42:42 AD: But they had a reason they lost their job, why– 1:42:46 H: So, I mean this one not for the petition you know. So, this one just after the government, I mean they just kicked many scholars out, you know, so Mardin– 1:42:59 AD: Yeah, but they all had some kind of connection with the petition– 1:43:03 H: No, no so the last one– 1:43:05 AD: The last one was like– I know five people graduated from here, lost their jobs one of them Kurdish, Nazan. 1:43:12 H: Nazan, I do not know. Is she here? 1:43:16 AD: from Van. 1:43:18 H: She is here now? 1:43:19 AD: I do not know where she is right now but she was in siyasal [School of Political Science, Ankara University]. 1:43:28 H: Siyasal [Faculty of Political Science at Ankara University] Ankara? 1:43:30 AD: Yeah. Her husband lost his job. So, he is not Kurdish but he is also– 1:43:36 H: Sure, yeah. There are many people, Turks, Kurds– 1:43:37 AD: That is what I am saying like being from East does not necessarily make you a Kurd and you will have an accent, I do not understand how people can be so judgmental and prejudice because you are coming from the East, you know what I mean? 1:43:57 H: Well and then, you know, so basically when you said Kurd, I mean the people just imagine oh the PKK, they want to divide this country, great country you know. Well I mean if you do not give me my like basic human rights, of course I need to like think the alternative option, you know, even I cannot teach Kurdish my children or my niece, nephew cannot take Kurdish courses, or it is not human being– 1:44:23 MT: Very basic human rights– 1:44:24 H: Basic, yeah, so the Turks I mean at least they can speak their language, teach their language give Turkish name to their children but on the other side the Kurds, I mean, no language, the people losing their culture, language, you know, and they like, we lost our village. I mean, so now the people do not want to go back because now they are, the village, they cannot be border because the families are bigger, the village, the houses are small and then it has been like ten, fifteen years you know the people have a different experiences. Yeah, I mean the Turkey side, I mean they can lose job but I mean the Kurds they cannot live as a Kurd, you know. So, you cannot make it. [laughs] 1:45:24 AD: Well, I think I want to make revani to go visit this 100 years old woman, so if some people join us– 1:45:30 H: No, how about first, before going there you can like, we should taste it and then if we said okay approve– 1:45:38 AD: Marwan tasted it before, that was the baking powder; so if some people join us, they can have it right? 1:45:44 H: Well, I do not want this woman– 1:45:47 MT: It is a good inducement– 1:45:49 H: I do not want this like ad experience with this 100-year-old-woman who you might kill her you know with revani [laughter] You know, we should try it first, you know– 1:46:01 AD: You know what, that is a little gesture, maybe she even has diabetic she cannot– If I make it to a 100-year-old, I would smoke, use drugs [laughs] eat whatever I want– Just kidding, but I mean I do not think I would like you know limit myself with anything, like what I am going to live another 100 years. [laughs] you know what I mean, yeah, give me more butter, give me more börek, çörek [sweet and salty pastry] or whatever– 1:46:35 MT: Well, Middle Eastern mindset– 1:46:40 AD: There you go. Yeah, so anyway, this is like our incentive package– 1:46:48 H: İnşallah [God willing]! 1:46:50 AD: For New Jersey trip, we are practically begging him to do this. 1:46:56 H: Yeah, I might come. 1:47:02 AD: So, anything else? Marwan? Do you have anything else to add? 1:47:05 H: Yeah, I can eat some more– [laughs] 1:47:08 AD: No, please that is for you, so anything else? Thank you for– 1:47:12 H: I mean so if you have any– 1:47:15 AD: If you remember any other questions we can always throw a second interview– 1:47:20 H: Oh, yeah, why not. 1:47:21 AD: Why not! Right? Okay, alright. Perfect. Thank you. 1:47:26 MT: Thank you very much. 1:47:29 H: You are welcome, sure. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Hawar Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/3aaa1cfb89929adb4eb795985740665f.jpeg f20548b3d85d7e41a81ecbf6ac5f8723 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio interviews Title A name given to the resource McKiernan Interviews Description An account of the resource Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism. <h3>The McKiernan 22</h3> <div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div> <ul> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li> <li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li> </ul> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stephen McKiernan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. 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Date of Interview 2010-12-02 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Stephen McKiernan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Heather Booth Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2:56:02 Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp4 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MicroCassette Material Type Sound Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Keywords Baby boom generation; Civil Rights Movement; Women's Rights Movement; War protest; Suffragettes; Activism; University of Chicago; Freedom; School boycotts; Free Speech Movement; Biographical Text Heather Booth is a civil rights activist, feminist, and political strategist. Booth started organizing in the civil rights, anti-Vietnam war, and women's movements of the 1960s. She also started JANE, an underground abortion service in 1965. Booth was the founding Director and is now President of the Midwest Academy. She became the Director of the NAACP National Voter Fund, which helped to increase African American election turnout in 2000. She was directing the founding of the Campaign for Comprehensive Immigration Reform in 2005. Booth became the director of the Health Care Campaign for the AFL-CIO in 2008. In 2009, she directed the campaign passing President Obama’s first budget. She was strategic advisor to the Alliance for Citizenship and has been a consultant on many other issues and with other organizations. Booth has a Bachelor's degree in Social Sciences, then in 1970, a Master's degree in Educational Psychology, both from the University of Chicago. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. 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Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Land, Helen Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-05-01 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:47 Minutes ; 26:22 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55966">Interview with Helen Land</a> Subject LCSH Land, Helen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Electrification; Citizenship; Trolley cars; Bennett Family; Recreation Park; Ross Park; Dance class Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Helen Land Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 1 May 1978 Anna: Mrs. Land, tell me experiences. Mrs. Land: I was born in Binghamton, NY, 20th of June 1897 at Mill St. I lived there for a few months because the landlord had stipulated that he won't have no children—I think I was very vocal, so then we were asked to find some other place to move. We moved to Walnut St. and there my mother died when I was one year and a half old (1 ½ years) and from there I moved to Lincoln Ave. where my father and I lived with my father's brother and his wife and three children. His wife was a saint to take a year and a half old child in there with her three children and bring me up. I lived on Lincoln Ave. until I was 18 years old, and at that time I had gone to St. John Ave. School up to the 4th grade—then I transferred to Laurel Ave. school which is now Horace Mann. I had gone there to the 8th grade and then I had traveled to Binghamton Central High School where I had my freshman, sophomore years—and from there I went over to my junior and senior years which were spent at the Washington St. School which is now the Police Station, I believe while they were building the new building, which is now the old building.  I just, guess I just led the normal life of a high school girl and everything was very, very circumspect in those days. We had street cars but we didn't patronize them—we walked back and forth—if you had only a couple miles to walk, you didn't bother with streetcars. Our entertainments were very mild. We had parties in the evening but they were strictly supervised—they were generally in homes of our friends, from eight ’til maybe ten o'clock at night. On weekends we were lucky—we could go to Ross Park and see the entertainment over there. They, it was sponsored by the Street Railway Company. It was a beautiful park, up there—they had benches all up in the woods and it was desirable to get there early so you would get a good seat. The benches would hold six to eight people—then there was another bench for our feet, everything was very comfortable. The vaudeville acts—there would be six or seven of them—and they were really very first class entertainment—it was things that people later on became prominent in movies and I think it was probably before any of them became television stars—but, they, we did get some of the movies, also, the Casino was under the sponsorship—was owned by the City Railway. That was a lovely place to go, but that cost more, it was twenty five cents round trip—to go to Ross Park it was only a nickel, one way and we, I was married quite young and we had very nice places to go then to eat. We had our, my friends and I would go to the various places for lunch. I remember Fowler’s had the most beautiful lunch for 60¢, you wouldn't believe it—there was no tipping there and you could go and you could go and get a chicken salad and homemade rolls and butter and homemade chocolate cake. Fowler’s was famous for Emily Napp’s chocolate cake. The Arlington Hotel had a lovely dining room—the Bennett Hotel had a very nice dining room and there was a very nice place known, as the Grill on Washington Street—it was upstairs over the Walter Miller Store. It was a very small place, but the food was excellent and the people use to like to go there after they’ve been to the theater at night.  We had very good entertainment here—it wasn’t every night—it wasn’t like a movie or anything like that. We had Sousa's band, would come here and Walter Damrosch's band—they appeared at the old Stone Opera House and it was quite a nice place to go and very well patronized. When I was in high school there was a dancing class conducted at the Monday Afternoon Club by Professor Lamoreaux and his wife on Thursday afternoon. The girls came with silk stockings on and they carried their dancing in bags because we didn’t dance in the same shoes that we had worn to school—but, you always knew when it was dancing lesson day because the girls changed from the Buster Brown ribbed lyle stockings to silk stockings, and that was a very nice to go—you bought a ticket from them, I think it was $6.00 for 12 lessons—you sat around the floor, there—Mrs. Lamoureaux saw that there were no wallflowers—you would sit there hoping somebody would ask you to dance, and he would be chasing after the most popular girl—Mrs. Lamoureaux would come after him and make him come and dance with you—he was a little reluctant to do—but as I say it was a very quiet period in which to live and there was no, as I remember, there was no vandalism, no anything, people sat on front porches at night—called back and forth across the street to the neighbors, there was no familiarity. We lived in the same neighborhood, as I say, I've lived these for 18 years, as I say there was no moving—everybody owned his own home there, but there was no familiarity, always addressed your neighbors as Mr. and Mrs.—never said, “Hello, Fred,” or, “Hello, Minnie”—it was always, “Mr. and Mrs. Barnum.” We also got in on all the church picnics because there was a very a large church membership, there was Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists and then, one family of Universalists moved in the neighborhood—they were looked down on because they mowed their lawn on Sunday, and that was not considered the thing to do. You mowed your lawn through the week—you did not mow it on Sunday—but we found out they were good Christian people. The father was a lawyer and he was President of the Board of Education so we decided that maybe mowing the lawn on Sunday was not a Cardinal Sin but we got in all on all the church picnics because we would interchange and you would go to the Lutheran Picnic and in turn you would ask them to come to your Presbyterian Picnic and that way our summers were very nicely taken care of. We played croquet in the afternoon and we went skating. There was a skating rink over on Conklin Ave.—it was called Lyons Skating Rink and although we lived on Lincoln Ave. that was probably a good two mile walk to Lyons Skating Rink, it might have been longer, but we always walked—we would never think of taking a streetcar and transfer going up there and sometimes we would go twice a day—we would go on Saturday—we'd go in the morning and for 15¢ you could get a very nice ham sandwich and a bottle of ginger ale, they also, the people who owned Lyons Skating Rink, ran the George Hull Ice Cream Company and Confectionery Store on Court St. but we seldom spent 15¢. We would walk home and get our dinner and then walk back again in the afternoon. Our entertainments were not expensive but they were really very enjoyable. I have one daughter and two grandchildren and one great-grandchild. I have enjoyed having them brought up in the same neighborhood that I was, for as I went to St. John Ave. School, that had turned into Alexander Hamilton, when they went there—they followed us by going to West Junior, which was not in existence when I was young. I had gone to Horace Mann, but then they went to Central High School and my daughter went to Sweet Briar College. My grandson went to Wittenberg College in Ohio. My granddaughter went to Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs and I have one great-grandchild. We are all living approximately the same area that we did when we were brought up and that is very nice because, I have forgotten the generation has gone by so quickly. I think, I really say, I knew your grandmother well, then I'd say it was your great-grandmother that I knew, that I was in school with. My husband died in 1948 and I had my own apartment until I just felt a little inadequate to coping with that. I was fortunate enough to be admitted in the Good Shepherd Fairview Home. I was still ambulatory and able to take care of my own room and make my own bed and change my own bed and I'm getting marvelous care and treatment here, I have a beautiful room, nobody could really find any fault with it. I am a very happy, 80 year old great-grandmother who’s about to be 81. It has not been a very productive life, but it has been an extremely happy one.  I used to go to my grandfather's in Greene. Father took me up there every Sunday on the Utica Train and we would leave here, early in the morning, sometimes very early in the morning, and I can remember traveling with the minimum of fare until I was about seven years old. One day the conductor said to my father, "How old is that child?” Father said, "Seven.” You'll have to pay, half fare for her now—then when I got to be 12 or 13 they discovered that I should be paying full fare. My maternal grandmother, grandfather lived on Wilson St. Father used to take me there Sunday afternoons to call on him. We used to have to cross the railroad tracks at Jarvis St. and I was terrified of those tracks. I don't know how many tracks there were—seems to me there were 8 or 10 of them there. I don't suppose there were that many, but there was a flagman there at Jarvis St., and he, if there was a train coming or going, he would come out with his little flag and wave it. I was not very speedy, I was bowlegged, and it was very hard for me to run and when we got half across I wanted to stay with the flagman until all the flags were clear. We went to Lily Lake which is now State Park—before the days of automobiles, you hired a horse and buggy from Seamon's or Sigler's Delivery Stables and sometimes, there were, I believe there were two four seated ones, but you had to get your name in early if you wanted the four seated ones—you took your whole family up to Lily Lake or a picnic and you took all equivalents for a beautiful picnic up there.  There were no colleges here in Binghamton, such as the Broome Community College and State University but Cortland Normal was near and Oneonta Normal wasn't too far. My mother was a graduate of Oneonta Normal—she taught school—my grandmother, my maternal grandmother taught school. My paternal grandmother went to Cazenovia Seminary and she never taught school. They must have given them a wonderful education in the little school they had then but I suppose the Cazenovia Seminary School was equivalent to a prep school—today a boarding school, because she was certainly a very literate woman and a very accomplished artist. I had no skills, whatsoever. I've always said that if my mother had lived I would have learned to cook and to sew and to do everything because according to legend, my mother was very clever. I always meet with the retort, “but I guess if you wanted to you could have learned how.” Apparently, I let someone else do it for me. I lived a good long life letting somebody else do things, and I'm continuing to do so. Anna: What did your husband do? Mrs. Land: He was the Secretary of Kilmer and Co-Secretary of Binghamton Press—also, he was a Canadian. I did have one jolting experience. I did not know, well in fact, it wasn't true when I married him I didn't lose my American citizenship, although he was a Canadian citizen. L went to be a character witness back in 1940, I guess for a Canadian who wanted to get her American citizenship. I found out I lost my citizenship in marrying an Canadian—I protested vigorously and I had stapled to my Marriage Certificate a notice in the paper that people marrying friendly aliens between April 1917 and October 1922 did not lose their citizenship. I had married at that time—I had been married in October 1917 which gave me a perfectly clear footing but that ruling had been rescinded so, I was voting illegally but I didn't it know it, so, I had to go and be repatriated to the hilarity of all my friends. I think they thought my husband was a Secretary of the Press, they thought it was a good joke to put great big headlines that I was repatriated and all of my friends came to me and said, "What do you mean? You were born here, how come you had to be repatriated?" Miss Eleanor Smith, who was the County Clerk at that time, said, "Don't feel so badly, there are many people voting illegally, they don't realize that the law was rescinded." I said, “Well, it certainly humiliated me very much,” publicized that, as I say I've had a very— At the time I was born was the one, I think McKinley had just come into the office. I remember, although I was between three and four, I think, he was assassinated in 1901. This was before I went to school but I can remember all the publicity about it. Of course, before the days of television and radio and things of that sort, but there were pictures in the newspaper and the assassin had worn his hands wrapped up in a handkerchief. We went around the neighborhood with our hands wrapped in a handkerchief and banged, banged at everybody around there before we went to school. I say, I've been a lifelong Republican, but I'm a kind of freelancer—I vote more for the man than I do for the party. I've been that way all my life. Anna: Can you think of anything else? Mrs. Land: My daughter has been active in all the things I didn't do, she seems to have done. I was on the board of the Girl's Club for many years and I enjoyed that—I was on the health board on YWCA and to the amusement of my family, I was also on the Municipal Recreation Board, they never could understand why I was on that. I was on the, that Family Children Services and I've enjoyed all of these because they were my friends, who were on the boards, and we all thought alike. I've seen many of the people come and go, and here I have many friends, there are 19 members from my church in this home where I live now, the West Presbyterian Church, there are 19 members here. The Circle came the other day and put out a lovely tea for us. I was surprised, to find there was so many members here, but we are really kind of like a family here, and didn't—people said, “It will take you a long time to adjust.” It wasn't a question of adjusting, because I knew many people in here, and I, just felt how lucky I was to have my meals prepared for me, and, cleaning and to have everything done for me. My daughter and grandchildren are very active in the church. They live here, my great-grandson is the 7th generation, in that, church and anyway my daughter is a member here at Fairview. Today, the receptionists came in and brought me a dear little wicker basket, saying, “Happy May Time, Dear Grandma Land,” from one of the Board members whom I love dearly, friend of my daughter’s, Mrs. Williams. Mrs. Williams always remembers to bring me little things, seasonal things. She brought me a beautiful bouquet of forsythias before anyone else got the snow off their bushes, and I watched that flower blossom. Father was born in Smithville Flats and although he had, apparently, only a—the schooling from the Village School, he was, an extremely literate man. He, I'm amazed because his formal education, must have been very limited, but he was an appreciative man. He would appreciate the art, and he always saw that I had the, very best reading material and also being an only child he indulged me, in my sartorial department. I always had beautiful clothes, I think he probably deprived himself to get me all decked out to go. He was 85 and you see he was only 30 years old when Mother died. And he had never remarried, he devoted his life to raising me. And he had the time when he and Mother were married, he was Superintendent of the Prudential Insurance in Oneonta.  I never did know why he came to Binghamton, they came, here before I was born. They were married in 1893 and 1897 I was born. After they came back here he was working for the Prudential as an sgent for, a while, but I think Father never found out what he really wanted to be. I think had Mother lived she would have stirred him more. He was a clerk in a grocery store. Oh I remember that—we never mentioned money, it seemed vulgar to talk about prices of things—but I remember my uncle saying to my father who was, 8 years his junior, “Fred, what did you pay for that coat of Helen’s?” And Father would say, “20 dollars.” My father at that time was making 12 dollars a week and then he got a raise for 14 dollars. He was always very thrifty, very. However when Walter Damrosch or Sousa's Band came here those tickets were 3 dollars, apiece, and he always took me to all the concerts that came along. How he managed it I don’t know but he was a wonderful thrifty man and he could not stand charge accounts, he thought those were the, invention of the devil, and all of my friends in school would go in, and said, “Charge it to Mr. So and So.” Father and I felt very humiliated. I think 14 and 15 year old girls are very sensitive and I felt that it was really very low class, to have to go and pay cash for anything, so I contrived a little system of my own.  The Credit man at McLean’s Department Store was a neighbor, of ours, Mr. Dennis, and he knew Father very well, so one day I went to the Credit Department, said to Mr. Bennett, “Father wants to open an account here,” and he said, “That would be very nice, Helen,” having known me—so he made out the account or put it on the book that Fred Paka of 7 Lincoln Ave. had an account. I knew that, that, wouldn't go over with Father, so I wanted to get some stockings, silk stockings, and Father thought that was an extravagance, all the other, girls wore silk stockings to Dancing School, but he thought the lyle were enough, those were Buster Brown stockings at 25¢ a pair. So I told him that I needed stockings, badly, that I, had to have 4 pair, he gave me a dollar, I had the dollar, I was, always very careful, I had the dollar in the drawer of my dresser, then I went with some friends into McLean’s and I ordered one pair, of silk stockings, which were a dollar, charged to Mr. Fred Paka, of 7 Lincoln Ave. The next day I came home and went to the Credit Dept. and I wanted to pay Mr. Fred's bill and they said, why, he had only been charged the day before, and I said I hadn't realized that but anyway I want to pay the bill, so I put down my dollar, and a couple of nights after, Father said, “Where were those stockings you bought?” And I said, “They’re in my room.” He said, “I’d like to see them.” I think he, was a little suspicious, and I said, “Well they’re like the, other, ones, that I always get.” He said, “Well let me see them,” and I said, “I wonder where which drawer I put them?” And he said, “You didn't by any chance buy a pair of silk stockings with the dollar?” and I said, “Yes I did, all the other, girls have silk stockings.” Well this went on for a year, my going in and charging, things. In fact up to the time when I was married, I went in and charged things to my father, but I always had the money before I charged it. And I think that the bookkeepers in McLean’s must have hated me, because, they would have to post it one day and the next day, I would go in to pay the bill. And I lived in such terror that the bill would be sent to my father, and he would find out that he owed money, because he had a regular sensation about owing money. A druggist neighbor of his—ah—Father lived on Crandall St. last years of his life, and around the corner Mr. Barnam had a drugstore and he told me that Father came in one night to buy a magazine and it was on a Saturday night and Mr. Barnam had locked up and didn’t have, any change, Father gave him a dollar and he says, “you can pay Monday or any time.” Father said, “No I don’t owe anybody overnight for anything,” and he said he wouldn’t take the magazine. Well that’s the way he was brought up, you either had it or you didn't. But I said my poor, father never knew that he had an account in McLean’s from 1911 to the time he died, 1915, so I was scheming. My aunt taught in Central High School and that embarrassed me, terribly, Mother’s sister, and I didn't want people to know, that she was my aunt, she was 17 years younger than my mother, only 11 years older than I was, but in a town like this, everybody knows who’s related to who, and finally people started asking me, if she was related, to me. I said, “No, no, not at all.” Well I was in her Biology class. I think that’s why she resigned and went to Brockport, and taught out there, because I gave her a very hard time, I’d become conveniently deaf and didn’t have my lessons prepared properly, I took full advantage of everything. In fact the principal called me to his, office, one day and said, “Your aunt”—I was very well behaved in everybody’s class but hers—he said, “Your aunt tells me she is, having a little difficulty here with you.”  “My aunt, what do you mean?” And he said, “Look don’t tell me that she is not your aunt, I know she is. I have a sister going to school in here and if you think it’s any, treat to us, to have our relatives going where we're teaching, you got another guess coming.” I don’t know why she should spread a story like that, but I never gave in that I was related to her and at the end, of the year, she resigned and went to Brockport Normal, where she, was very happy. Anna: Why did you deny her? Mrs. Land: Well because she was bossy and she was only ten years older than I, and I didn't think she had any right to push me around. And I was a brat, that was the whole thing, I never had any trouble with any of the other teachers, and, but I just wasn’t going to be pushed around. But I did, I do think that, scholastically what I learned that year, in the 4 years in the Central High, I can’t be grateful enough to the marvelous, teachers we had. Our English teachers, our Latin teachers, our German teachers. We were perfectionists. If your assignment wasn't done you jolly well stayed, after school that night. Anna: Do you remember some of the names? Mrs. Land: Oh yes I remember, them very well. Fraulein Meyer was my German teacher, and Professor Greenwood, Julius Greenwood, was my English teacher, and I owe, I owe him so much, because he was such a perfectionist. And my Latin teacher, I had a teacher that I referred to as Caesar Brown, and then later on I had Miss Rogers, and I had Professor Williams in American History and I had Elizabeth Bump in Ancient History, and Miss Frink in Geometry. I had Professor Dan Mills who was an excellent Mathematician. I had him. I loved German. I don’t know why it seemed to come easily to me, but I knew Fraulein Meyer. Anna: You never—I don’t know if she was teaching at the school then—Minka Beaukmann? Mrs. Land: Oh no, no, Minka Beaukmann wasn’t teaching there when I was there—she came after— Anna: But you, do you remember her? Mrs. Land: Oh yes, certainly— Anna: You do? Mrs. Land: I knew the, the whole Beaukmnann Family. Anna: You did! She was one of my best friends in the world. Mrs. Land: Well, do you know Kathryn Maloney, by any chance? Well Kathryn is one of my best friends in the whole world! It’s a small world, isn’t it? Anna: You could tell her— Mrs. Land: I will! Anna: —that I worked for Minka, and helped her out. She was wonderful— Mrs. Land: I will. Anna: Minka Beaukmann was a wonderful friend— Mrs. Land: When I was a little girl— Anna: —one of the best friends I ever had. Mrs. Land: Well Charlotte Beaukmann, her older sister, I had her junior Endeavor class at West Presbyterian Church— Anna: What school did she teach in? Mrs. Land: She didn’t teach in the school, she stayed home and kept house for Eda and Minka. Anna: Minka taught—what did she teach? Mrs. Land: I’m not sure of that—I didn’t cross their teaching horizons. But Charlotte Beaukmann, and Henry Beaukmann was the only boy, and they lived at 28 Lincoln Ave, and my daughter lived at 29 when she was married. They bought 29, and that’s where my little great-grandson was born. Anna: You knew Minka! Mrs. Land: Oh yes, I know the whole family. And Kathryn Maloney just loved her. Well it’s a small world. And dear Kathryn comes to see me now, and she brought me— Anna: She does! Please say hello to her. Mrs. Land: —I will. And she brought me two pounds of soft-center [inaudible] the other day, and I said, “Kathryn, you just must not do that.” Every time she comes, she’s bringing something, and I said, “It embarrasses me to have you.”  [intermittently inaudible, 39m10s-41m47s] Mrs. Land: When I was little, you see, Davis St. hadn't been cut through, that was the Bennett Estate, and Mrs. Bennett had been left a widow, and I read in the paper today, I didn't realize that her husband was killed in 1900 with one of the very first automobiles we had here in Binghamton. It got out of control, and his name was Fred Bennett, and he left this beautiful Estate which was between Lincoln Ave. and West Seminary Ave., and all of that going down as far as Laurel Ave. was part of the Bennett Estate. But the stipulation was that she was not to be married.  She was a very beautiful young woman, young widow. And she had many suitors, but this home was absolutely beautiful. And finally she succumbed to the wooing of Dr. Wagner, he was the head of our State Hospital here, and she left this home and went to live at the State Hospital with Dr. Wagner. And her children by that time were grown, she had 2 daughters and a son, and they were grown all the way, and that home was allowed to go in just a ruin, this beautiful brick home it was, facing Chestnut St. It was the top of Davis St., but the west side was on West Seminary Ave. You drove in there, and we were forbidden as children to go and play there. There was a picket fence that came down as Lincoln Ave. But we went there, we would go and peek in the windows, and these gorgeous windows and tier glass mirrors from the ceilings to the floor in there and they had a watchman type of man, who would control the Estate. But in those days there was no vandalism, nobody broke in, and nobody desecrated those things. And today kids would be in it, and as a child, when I lived on Lincoln Ave., 6 Lincoln Ave., up until Millard Ave., that was all green houses to show you the beauty of the Estate. Well there was a Mr. Davis here who was a friend of Fred Bennett. And his Father who was Abel Bennett and I believe he was the First Major Of Binghamton, I'm not sure about that. But Mr. Davis who was Paul Titchner’s, Titchner’s grandfather, maternal grandfather, was a great friend of Fred Davis, Abel Bennett’s, son. And they cut through Davis St. and named it for Paul Titchner’s, grandfather, and the other day one of the Paul Titchner’s daughters said to me, “Where was, did the Moreses used to live? What was the name of the street they used to live on?” And I said, “Jean, that street was named after your great-grandfather and don’t be saying, ‘What’s the name of that street?’”  “It was named after my great-grandfather?” I said, “It certainly was.” Davis Street was named for him, but when I was young Bennett Park was a place to go. There was no entertainment over there, like Ross Park, but it was beautiful, the woods were nice, over there and there were picnic tables and you could go over there and, have your picnic lunch and it was a very nice place, for families to go to, to go around, they would sit there at night , and it was a, nice place to go. I lived at Lincoln Ave., 7 Lincoln Ave. We had, wooden sidewalks then there were, were no cement walks then and, between 7 and 9 Lincoln Ave. there was a little lamppost out there and there was a little man, midget man that used to come down the street, every night with a little, ladder over his shoulder and a torch in his, hand, and he would put this little ladder up against this little, lamppost, and climb up on it and light that lamp. That was before, the days of arclights, electric lights or anything else. And I would look over the windowsill and watch for him to come, every night, cause it was really—I was afraid of him, there was something about him, he was as I say a malformed little fellow and he, carried this little ladder over his shoulder with his arm between it, and he'd put this against the lamppost, and I don't suppose the lamppost was more than 6 feet tall, but he would climb up on that and, light that lamp. And oh I could remember, when electric lights went in, that was considered something. We had only gas in the house, that was on the first floor, you used kerosene lamps on the second floor, very few families had them. Although I know that in 1912 some private homes, some families were fixed for electricity, but very few, most of them depended on gas. These Wellspot burners which were very perishable, and if you were sent to the store to get one you prayed you wouldn’t drop it on the way home, but in those days I had a, friend, who had electricity in the house, and you took a basket of burned out bulbs, and took them over to the Electric Light Company on Washington St., and they replaced them with new bulbs. That didn't last very long, that was the days you did things like that. I do remember that the trolley cars went out of existence in 1932—they were replaced by buses—because I was over in Canada for the Summer and I had a letter from my father saying they took a ride on the last trolley. Today we used to ride from Leroy St. and Chestnut St. We took a streetcar on a terribly hot night, it would take us to the State Hospital Hill for a nickel and you would go up there, and they would turn the seats, these were open air streetcars and they would turn, turn the seats, and you'd have to get out, and for another nickel, you would ride back, from the Hospital Hill, down to Chestnut and Leroy Streets. That would give you a real nice outing. Oh our entertainments were very inexpensive. My father was a bookkeeper for Grayson and Carr’s Groceries and Meats at the corner of Main and Edwards St., 106 and 108 Main. After Father died I was going through his desk and I found a statement, that he made up, he used to go to the store in the morning, when in summer the men came in with the produce, with berries, and vegetables like that. Father would go down half past four in the morning to meet them there and then he would ride around with a horse and buggy. Then he would take orders, and he would ride back to the store, and put up the groceries and meat, and go back and deliver it. And some of these people would pay cash, and some had weekly statements, and some had monthly statements. Father would come home at 6 o’clock at night, had his supper and go right up to his desk and sit down, make out these statements, he'd be working ’til 12 or 1 o’clock, the most beautiful penmanship you have ever seen, and he would be making out these, statements. Well I found a statement, I think it was in 1906, and, it had the prices of things there. A pound of butter, 12¢, and coffee was 28¢ a pound, rib roast of beef $1.12 for 2 or 3 pounds. Father was a great coffee drinker up to the day he, died, and all the give away things in those days. Here we have a this-and-that shop, Hershey Bars now, 20 cents I buy 5 of these bars, 5 for a dollar. My father is turning in his grave, oh I just can’t believe it, I do not see how they can feed their families, but that’s now. Anna: I go to the St. Patrick’s Cemetery, it’s near the Slovak Cemetery, and that’s where all my folks, my family are buried. My grandmother Anna Mrlak, my father Stephen Torony, and my dear brother Robert Torony who was injured playing football, he has a monument of his own features carved out of stone.  Mrs. Land: Who did it?  Anna: An old man in Barre, Vermont. He was only 24 years old, he was a wonderful, good boy, loved by all. When he died there were 150 cars at his funeral, and the whole city didn’t work that day—a Tribute to Bob Torony the Great Football Hero, died Jan. 1932. I never got over it. Mrs. Land: Oh no, you don’t. Well Rick Cooper, Edgar Cooper’s son— Anna: Ricky was in the next room to Bob’s in the New York Hospital. And they both died of the same sickness. We knew the Cooper family and we went to see them in New York. He, Rick is buried in the Chenango Valley Cemetery in Hillcrest. My daughter Irene lives near there.  Mrs. Land: That’s very interesting, because you can’t get Vermont granite today for your brother’s monument. Anna: The man that made it said the longer it stays, the more it will look like him (Bob). It sure was a tragedy.  Mrs. Land: Well you wonder why those things happen.  Anna: Thanks for a wonderful interview, Mrs. Land. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Helen Land Subject The topic of the resource Land, Helen -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Electrification; Citizenship; Trolley cars; Bennett Family; Recreation Park; Ross Park; Dance class Description An account of the resource Helen Land talks about her birth and upbringing in Binghamton, NY and how the town has changed over the years. She reminisced about growing up in Binghamton, and discusses taking dance classes, attending church picnics, family outings, and attending school. She talks about the Bennett Family, <a href="http://www.rossparkzoo.com/">Ross Park,</a> Recreation Park, old trolley cars, electrification in homes, local businesses, hotels, entertainment, and mentions various people of Binghamton. She also discusses her marriage to a man from Canada and losing her citizenship, and her difficulty in getting her citizenship back. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 40A ; Recording 40B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Land, Helen ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-01 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:47 Minutes ; 26:22 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/6c3a5911be311ee7d89e4358271ce49f.m4a 80c9c9d748b5d9bf8b9d4788e565d48f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Weaver, Helene Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-03-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13:25 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56052">Interview with Helene Weaver</a> Subject LCSH Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America; House of the Good Shepherd; Broome County Office for Aging Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Helene Weaver Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 20 March 1978 Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could you tell us a little something about your early beginnings, your recollection of your childhood, where you were born, what your parents did and that sort of thing? Helene: Well, I was born in Binghamton on Miles Street in the year of 1897 and a my father and mother parted when I was very young and then he had a business in a what was called Lestershire and a he remarried and I lived with—in Lestershire and I had a stepmother who was very good to me and a all her—she was a family of ten children and a I thought a great deal of my aunts and uncles and my father had a business for a good many years. He had to run a meat market in Johnson—in Lestershire and then it was changed to Johnson City in about 1916 I think. And I left school the third year of high school and went to work in a E-J office and while I was there they changed the name from Lestershire to Johnson City and then they christened a boat down in New York—Johnson City and I was one of the delegates to go. There was a delegate from each department E-J's that was taken and there was the ones by Mr. George F. & Mr. Harry L. took the second ones—the second highest and we went to New York and christened this boat. Had a wonderful time. (chuckle) There was a four of us girls together and we had—we didn't get any sleep all the time we were gone because we were having such a wonderful time and I worked until I was married. Then in 1920 and a we had—we were—we were buying an E-J home and when the home was finished we went housekeeping. Susan: Do you recall how much you paid for that home? Helene: $4,000—$4,000 and each month—yes you paid your rent—you paid some on your principal. Well, we—we a lived there 7 years and a my daughter was born in 1927 and in 1928 we sold our home and moved to Binghamton because my husband’s work was in Binghamton then and he had been an E-J worker and then he was working for Crowley Milk Co. is why we moved to Binghamton and he worked there two or three years and then he was—he went to work for Stow Mfg. He worked there ‘til he died in 1955 and a well my father sold his business the year I was married and he retired and he died in 1954. He would have been 83 years old in about two months and he died. (clears throat) Pardon me, then a—and then after my husband died I went to work at the House of the Good Shepherd. I had charge of the dining room and I worked there 4 years and then I retired at 62—and then I was a—they called me in for extra work whenever they needed me and then I knew some different people that they needed some help with meals and I used to go out and help them with their meals and do little things for people and then I took care of my grandson which was—he was born in 1956. I took care of my grandson and did this work and took care of my own home all at the same time and a I had a couple roomers in my home. They helped me with my rent and a then after my grandson was big enough so he could be left—I didn't do that anymore and then about 1965 I stopped doing any work for money and I moved here in the highrise in ‘68 and I got into the—into different things into volunteer work when they started the a Serve the ones that started the volunteer work and I worked for them until the R.S.V.P. took it over and I worked—I worked at the hospital every other week for 7 years and I have worked at the United Way for volunteer work and I have worked for the Office for the Aging and I worked for the A.O.P. Office, The Lawyers Reference and I was a cashier for the nutrition sight at the Y.W. for oh 6 years and a I've had to give it up because I didn't feel able to get back and forth to—to the project and I—the highrise I—I came in here when the apartment was brand new and I have been very happy here and it has given me more a chance to get to meet people and get out to do things and gives me something to occupy my time and help others and a I don't know as I know of anything more that I can tell you unless you have any questions you'd like to ask. Susan: Mrs. Weaver, could we go back a little bit and a tell us a what life was like in Lestershire when you were a little girl growing up and the changes that you have seen in the community since the early days? Helene: Well, when I was growing up it was—it's Johnson City now—but it was then Lestershire and I went to the Hudson Street school and I left my third year high school and went to work in E.J. office but when I was small I had cousins and we—we a had a big family and we were always together. The family was always together. We had good times and a if we wanted to amuse ourselves we had popcorn or pulled taffy or—or something like that we would play the piano and sing and we weren't allowed out at night until I think the curfew rang at 9 o'clock and we were supposed to be in by 9 o'clock and I can remember when if I was up to my cousins’ and I didn't get started home quickly enough and the curfew rang I was scared to death for fear the policeman would pick me up (chuckle) but I never did get picked up but a I always tried to be home. My folks were very strict with me and they tried to give me a good home and I had to mind my parents and I was taught that I shouldn't tell stories—tell fibs and not to lie and I should—should be kind to people and well as I say the—the a those times were so different from now I think but we thought nothing of it. I think that we were happier in our younger days than some of the young people now because before they’re 12 years old they've seen and had everything and we didn't. We went gradually getting things and so that when—and when we grew up there was still more things to take up our mind and our time and to for our enjoyment and a I was brought up to go to church and Sunday school and I thought I couldn't ever miss that was—that was one thing I didn't think I could miss prayer meeting or church or anything. I was brought up to live that way and a then when I worked in the E-J office I worked 10 hours a day 5 days a week that was from 7 to 6 and then on Saturday from 7 ‘til 5 and I got $8.50 a week and I thought I was rich (chuckle) and I gave my people $5.00 a week for my room and board and I used to think that well I was being punished that way but as I grew older I realized that my folks wanted me to know the responsibilities of handling money which I am very thankful for now and a I enjoyed working in this office there was about 50 girls in the office where I worked and I had—I did different jobs. I learned different things. I never was a bookkeeper or anything like that but I did—I did filing and I did orders and I did sample work. They made out samples with shoes and a I used to help on the inventory and when the First World War—I went out in the factories and sold Liberty bonds and I did I don't remember how many I sold at the time but I did very well. I did very well at that time. And a now that I see that E-J's have gone I—I feel very sad at times to think that E-J factories are not working anymore because they did so much for Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson City and a George F. built the libraries and started the libraries and the dinners for people to eat—where they could go eat and they did so much for us and we had our E-J Chorus. I was in that some of the time and a but as I say it makes me feel very sad when I go down to Johnson City which I was down there a couple weeks ago and I see how Johnson City looked it just made me sick. I just said to my sister, “Oh I can't imagine what's ever happened to Johnson City.” But I think it’s just the idea that E-J's have just gone out because the Johnsons are all gone practically and a so though the times have changed so well I'm glad that I'm my younger days were filled with the way they were rather than the times now. I think that my life was—I've had a very sheltered life really because when I hear the things that go on that I never knew existed before and I'm glad that I never did know cause I don't like the thoughts like that (chuckle) so I guess that's about all I can tell you right off hand now of what happened. Susan: Thank you very much Mrs. Weaver, it's been very nice talking with you. Helene: Did I do all right? Susan: Fine. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Helene Weaver Subject The topic of the resource Weaver, Helene -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Volunteers; Retired Senior Volunteer Program (U.S.); United Way of America Description An account of the resource Helene Weaver talks about her childhood in Binghamton, NY, her father's meat market in Johnson City. She worked in an office at Endicott Johnson until she married. After her husband died Helene finds employment with the House of the Good Shepherd, in charge of the dining room. After retiring she volunteered at organizations such as, RSVP, United Way, and Office for Aging. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 63