75 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23179c8a8baf3cc960bdbca0d862d340.mp3 67bde3bbfe236be6f80e1051611c3ced Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Burns, John B. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-06-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:34 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55877">Interview with Dr. John B. Burns</a> Subject LCSH Burns, John B. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Elmira (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Immunization; Vaccination; Medicaid Pediatrician; Vitanza, Dr. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Dr. John B. Burns Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 16 June 1978 Dan: Doctor, why don't we start out with the—you tell me your date and place of birth and the reason that you came to Binghamton and your life and experiences in the community. Dr. Burns: OK let’s see, I was born on June 9th 1903 in Elmira, New York and ah my Mother died 3 weeks after I was born and the reason I mention that is because she died with an embolism which is quite unusual at this day and age to have that happen. Ah I went to the schools in Elmira and graduated from Elmira Free Academy in 1922 and then I went from there I went to the University of Buffalo in the College of Arts and Science and the Medical College and I graduated from there in 1928 with an M.D. Degree and a Bachelor of Science in Medicine. Ah I interned at the Myer Memorial Hospital which at that time was called Buffalo City Hospital and ah after leaving there, I went to New York to the New York Nursery and Child's Hospital which is the oldest children’s hospital in America and it was Cornell's Pediatric Department and that’s where I did my pediatric training and after I left New York I went to Baltimore to Johns Hopkins and finished my pediatric training there at Hopkins and it was from there that I came to Binghamton in 1931. Ah you wondered why I came to Binghamton—well when I was in high school at Elmira Free Academy I used to come here to Binghamton to play football and basketball against Binghamton Central and ah I always, when every time I was at Binghamton, I always was quite impressed with the city. Ah at that time the big rivalry was between Elmira and Binghamton—ah Endicott, Vestal and Johnson City, of those weren't in it at all—it was between Binghamton Central and Elmira Free Academy. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And as I say that's the reason that I happened to come here or to think about it. When I was finishing at Hopkins, Dr. Park, who was the Professor of Pediatrics there asked me where I was going to practice and I told him I was thinking of Binghamton and he knew a Dr. Chittenden here ah who had taught him when he was a medical student at P. and S. in New York so he said, "Well I'll write to him and see what the prospects are." Of course this was at the bottom of the Depression. Dan: Uh huh Dr. Burns: And he wrote to Dr. Chittenden and I think it was Chittenden who suggested that I come up and see him and talk with him—so I came up one holiday I, I can't remember whether it was the 4th of July or Memorial Day or when it was and ah visited with him and he ah referred me to four different doctors here that I should go around and see and I went around to each one of the four of them but I didn't get any encouragement from any of them—not one. They all said, "Well if you can wait 6 years why you can probably make a go of it or not," but anyway ah I decided to come here to try it out anyway and we had some exciting times at that particular period. I tried to borrow some money from a bank in Elmira and they wouldn't loan me any and ah I finally borrowed $1500 from an uncle of mine and I went to the bank in Elmira to deposit it before transferring it to Binghamton and ah I asked them about what bank I should go to here and they said, "They're all all right, go to any of them," so the man that we rented the apartment from here at 124 Murray Street said the bank, I think it was called the Citizens Trust ah was a bank that would give you a loan easier than anybody else—so I figured that's for me, that's what I want—so I, I went down to the Citizens Trust and made arrangements to have the money transferred from Elmira and then we went to visit Marion's brother over the weekend and came back on Tuesday—was a notice on the bank that it had failed—it had gone under and ah so it's a wonder I didn't have a heart attack right there. Anyway I called Elmira and ah Elmira said that ah that they had gotten wind of it and they had held it up. We, as I mentioned, we lived at 124 Murray Street—rented an apartment there, we paid $55.00 a month and that included a garage and ah all the utilities and everything and ah Mrs. Burns finally got them to cut the rent down to $50 a month because our money was going pretty fast. At that time that I started here in Binghamton, you couldn't put an announcement in the paper that you were opening an office—it was unethical to do it nor could you—that you were moving your office anywhere I mean. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: And now of course you can put it in which they should have allowed it anyway but you couldn't then and also we had another ah bad situation and that was that the ah telephone book had just come out so I couldn't get my name in the telephone book and of course it was ah as I said, the bottom of the Depression ah anyway I opened an office on the 25th of September 1931 and I never had a patient for the first 6 weeks and the interesting thing is that the first patient that I had came from Hancock—didn't come from from Binghamton at all. I never had more than one patient a day until the first of April, 1932 and on that day, I had four patients call me in the morning and from there on it began to break and to build up. Ah there are several interesting things about Binghamton at the time that I came here—as a matter of fact there were very few specialists—there was no one who did pediatrics exclusively—there were 3 or 4 doctors who were general practitioners who did a lot of pediatrics but none of them that just did it exclusively and other than the nose and throat men and ah the surgeons, although a great many of the surgeons ah did general practice too ah there were no specialists—they had a dermatologist here before I came but he died just before I came here. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: We had no urologist and no neurosurgeon, no dermatologist at all and no child had ever been cystoscoped here before I came here and I finally got one of the young surgeons to buy a child cystoscope and that was the first one that was ever cysticoped in this area. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns : Now of course we've got lots of urologists and ah the specialty that you need. Ah we, they had a situation at the City Hospital at that time when if you had a patient with say meningitis or scarlet fever or polio, you send it into the hospital, you lost control of it completely because this one doctor, who was a General Practitioner ah had charge of that contagious hospital.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And that irritated me quite badly because I mean I didn't see any reason why I shouldn’t be able to take care of my own ah patients with contagious disease because I’d had special training in it—so after I had been here about a year, I got ahold of this doctor one morning and I told him that ah I was going to get a lawyer and if necessary, I was going to go to court to see why it was that I couldn't go in and take care of my own patients. I think that upset him a little bit because he said, "Now if you ah just don’t say anything about it, I’ll let you take care of your patients when they go in.” Well of course it was just a question of time when the other doctors saw that I was going in, that they went in too. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And the arrangements that they had was that they had—the door was locked and the nurse had the key to it and she was the only one that could let you in or out so she knew those that had permission to go in, see, and ah but that, that was overcome. Had another interesting situation in Binghamton and that was ah the it was a great center for certified raw milk, which was ah a very excellent milk but it was raw.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And of course I had been ah brought up in the hospitals where I was in using pasteurized milk. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Ah I was even accused of using dirty milk in my patients ah when using pasteurized milk—anyway eventually this dairy who did the, made the certified milk did pasteurize their milk too so that they finally had a certified pasteurized milk and then of course eventually why pasteurization took over completely but ah, ah, ah let’s see here—Oh I one ah factor that was ah helped me quite a lot when I came here was that I did have an opportunity to give some anesthetics for ah nose and throat men and for surgical patients ah I fortunately had had some experience at that at Nursery and Child’s so while I never enjoyed giving anesthesia, I mean it did help to keep me going.  Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: I also used to do quite a little lab work here ah for example if a doctor thought he had a child with an appendix and wanted a blood count done why I would go out and do the blood count for him of if they thought a child has polio, I would go out and do the lumbar puncture and examine the spinal fluid and call him back and give him the report on it.  Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And I remember one very interesting ah ah day—I don't know whether this was would be interesting or not but ah there was either the 4th of July or Memorial Day ah that one of the doctors had a little girl in Lourdes that had a bloodstream infection and of course in those days you didn't have any sulfa or penicillin or any of those things, see and she had to be transfused or rather they tried to transfuse her but they didn't have anyone apparently available at that time that could do typing and crossmatching so I don't know how many hours I spent typing and crossmatching ah donors until finally we got one that they could use on the girl but it didn't do any good, she, she didn't survive anyway. Dan: Umum—would that be the what they call the RH factor? Dr. Burns: No—that one was not RH. This was a septicemia bloodstream infection with a strep infection. No, the RH factor of course when I started we didn't know that RH factor—we used to call it Icterus Gravis in the newborn. We knew that it was a very serious condition and a lot of them were deaf afterwards and a lot of them were mentally defective afterwards and a number of them died. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And it wasn't until the RD factor was discovered that we could really do something and Dr. Vitanza and I did the first exchange transfusion on one of her patients here in the city ah whether it was done, others done in the area or not, I do not know but ah it took us 7 hours to do the first exchange transfusion—now after that we got so that each individual could do it in an hour or hour and a half. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But this child survived anyway even though it took that length of time to do it ah it was interesting in being able to practice before the advent of sulfa and penicillin because practice of medicine is entirely different after the advent of those drugs—it just made it entirely different. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Let’s see what else—in 19, I spent even three years in the service from 1942 to 1945 and ah then when I came back, there was already another pediatrician that had come in. Dan: But you were the first pediatrician in the area. Dr. Burns: I was the first ah pediatrician first one that did it exclusively and first one that was certified by the American Board of Pediatrics. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: Especially ah as you probably know, because you had to have it done when you were young, had to be vaccinated against smallpox before you could go to school—you also had to be protected against diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus and I think one of the most interesting things today is the fact that it's no longer—you do not have to be vaccinated against smallpox—smallpox has been eradicated throughout the world. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: And the same thing will probably happen with polio if they can only get the people to cooperate well enough. Now of course you not only have to be inoculated against whooping cough and diphtheria and tetanus but you also have to be immunized against measles and rubella, that's 3 day measles ah mumps ah those three. Yes, measles, mumps and rubella ah they have to be done before they could go to school now. So there’s been a big advance in the immunization ah let’s see what else is there? Dan: Now you spoke it took you almost a year to get ah started. Dr. Burns: That's right. Dan: You went from what, 6 patients or something like that you had at the end of the year. Dr. Burns: Well, I don't, I had after my first patient, I say I never had more than one a day until April Fools Day—the last day of April.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And then I had four and from then on I didn't keep track of them. I—know one thing that when I filed my first income tax return that the Federal Government got after me and wanted to know why it was I hadn't previously filed it—they thought that there was something funny about it. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: When they found out that I had just started in practice I mean why it turned out to be all right. Dan: Uh huh—Now when you retired, how many, how many patients did you have approximately, Doctor, that is in a year? Dr. Burns: Oh gee I haven't any idea how many I had. Dan: Can you figure just a guess?  Dr. Burns: In a year—in the course of a year? Dan: Yeah in the course of a year when you knew—just, just round figures. Just give you an idea how you built up your practice from nothing. Dr. Burns: Well I know I used to work ah in the morning from—I’d give anesthetics from eight o'clock, from seven o'clock until about 8:30 and then start in the office at nine and work in the office all day and then go out and make house calls from about 8 o'clock at night ‘til midnight but I can't remember the ah when I look back now I don't see how I did it. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Gee I—Marion? Marion: Yeah. Dr. Burns: Do you have any idea—what do you mean a day how many I saw in a day or— Dan: No about—you know how many patients you had in about a year’s time, you know. Marion: I don't have any idea. Dr. Burns: Do you have any idea how many patients I had a year before I had to retire. Marion: Oh Lord no—how are you this morning? Dan: Good, Mrs. Burns. Marion: Did you have a nice trip? Dan: Very nice. Marion: No, John, I haven't to be honest. Dan: How many patients did you see on the average a day, Doctor? Marion: Oh— Dan: Would you know that? Marion: Get out one of your books and I'll count them up just for fun. Dan: No, no, just, just a guess. Dr. Burns: Well we'd see them every fifteen minutes from 9 o’clock in the morning and take about a half hour out for lunch and finish up at 6 o'clock at night. Marion: If you were lucky—it usually was later than 6 o'clock at night. Dan: You saw one every fifteen minutes? Dr. Burns: Yes but we worked others in between—emergencies we would have to bring in between too and inoculations I mean that we gave in between, see, so even with that, we figured 15 minutes but we had others coming in also. Dan: Yeah—I know you were awfully busy—your office, your waiting room was packed—we used to try and ask for the first appointment after lunch so we could get in a halfway decent hour, otherwise we had to wait 2 or 3 hours. Marion: (laughter) Sit there and wait—how true. Dr. Burns: Well. Dan: Now the—I think Doctor there's something that you ah left out—we'll see. Ah polio vaccination program, immunization program when they introduced the Salk vaccine—you participated in that program—could you tell me a little about that? Dr. Burns: Well ah it was just the fact it was ah it was a killed vaccine and it was given by injection.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: In contradistinction to the Sabin vaccine which was given by mouth and ah course when the Salk vaccine first came out as I remember correctly, I think we discontinued our regular practice for several days and did nothing but immunize the children against polio. Dan: Yes, I know that Alice, our oldest daughter participated in that program and in other words in administering that in order to see how effective it is was or get a control on it, why you kept either they didn't know whether they were getting the real vaccine or else a placebo. Dr. Burns: Oh we, that must have been done experimentally because we always gave the regular vaccine. Dan: Yeah but this was when it was first introduced. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: To see how effective it was. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: But Sabin—there was a Sabin vaccine but that was a live virus wasn’t it?  Dr. Burns: Sabin is still live and it's a live vaccine and is given by mouth and ah of course they're both two good vaccines. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But the Sabin is probably a little superior and much easier to administer too. Dan: The Sabin is. Dr. Burns: Yes, of course just given by mouth. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But there have been some cases of polio resulting from the Sabin vaccine. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: They're rare but there have been cases discovered and there's been just recently a case of a father who picked up polio from after his child was immunized with Sabin vaccine. Dan: Umum, yeah, so ah you of course didn't always make house calls did you—you had to terminate those as your practice advanced didn't you? Dr. Burns: Well I made house calls right up until after I came back from the service and of course when I came back from the service, the practice of medicine had changed considerably because the doctors weren't able to make house calls and people got in the habit of going to the doctor' s office. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: So I continued to make house calls up until I quit practice on certain instances. I mean sometimes I mean just obligated. Dan: Yeah. Dr. Burns: But ah ah before I went into service I mean, I'd make house calls from the NOB down in Endicott up to Chenango Bridge and I've been even to Sayre, Pennsylvania to make a house call. Dan: Gee. Dr. Burns: Ah but I remember one down near Chemung one Sunday, of course we used to tie these up going out for a ride or something on Sunday too—we thought, “kill two birds with one stone.” Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: But Bingharnton has been very good to me ah I'm glad that I came here to practice—I've enjoyed it—I think Binghamton is an excellent city. Dan: That's good. Dr. Burns: And ah I think I would do over again. As I say I'm certified by the American Board of Pediatrics; member of the American Academy of Pediatrics; Central New York Pediatric Club; of course the Broome County Medical Society and the State Society and the AMA. Happen to be a life member of those—also the Academy of Pediatrics ah I don't know much else that ah. Dan: Now when you retired didn't they honor you by over to Lourdes Hospital by the Maternity section over there? Dr. Burns: Yeah, they donated ah ah incubator in my name over there it's one of the latest incubators and not only that but they gave Mrs. Sabini a pearl necklace and then they gave me this (pointing to mantle piece) over here which is worth over $300—that thing, that there. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And in addition to that they had $300 left over and ah they called and wanted to know what to, what to do with that so I suggested that they give that to Lourdes too.  Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Which they did—to the pediatric department. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: When I came here of course Lourdes Hospital had no pediatric department at all. It really wasn't until after I came back from the service that Lourdes had any pediatric department to amount to anything and the one at the General is when I came here was very unsatisfactory—I mean it wasn't a good setup at all but I have in the past been head of the Pediatrics Department at both the General and at Lourdes and I did work at the General probably 90% of my 25 years over there. Now they both have excellent pediatric departments—very well run, excellent nurses and everything. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: It’s entirely different from what it used to be. Dan: Umum. Now of course I have to transcribe this and some of this spelling here I’d like—this Icterus Gravis, how do you spell that? Dr. Burns: I-C-T-E-R-U-S. Dan: I-C-T— Dr. Burns: —E-R-U-S G-R-A-V-I-S. Dan: Gravis, OK, and in your internship, what ah what school was it in Elmira—you went to some school there in Elmira. Dr. Burns: Well just the Elmira Free Academy. Dan: But there was an intern— Dr. Burns: No—interned in Buffalo. Dan: In Buffalo. Dr. Burns: At Myer Memorial Hospital. Dan: That was it, what was it, Elmira? Dr. Burns: No no Myer—M-Y-E-R. Dan: Myer, OK. Dr. Burns: It was Buffalo City Hospital is what it was then—now it's the Myer Memorial Hospital. Dan: Umum and you retired in what year Doctor? Dr. Burns: 1942.* Dan: ‘42. Dr. Burns: September 13th. Dan: Umum. Dr. Burns: Not by choice. Dan: Not by choice. Dr. Burns: No. Dan: Unfortunately—OK well is there anything else that you’d like to add? Dr. Burns: Well I was just trying to think whether there’s ah I’ll have to admit one thing and that is that I am sure in the 41 years that I was in practice that I saw a few miracles.  Dan: You saw a few miracles. Dr. Burns: I think, I think most doctors will tell you that they've seen some miracles too. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: Great. Dr. Burns: Of course we got credit for a lot of things and all that ah the Lord took care of. Dan: Oh sure, well we know that we got to work together. Dr. Burns: Yeah. Dan: OK Doctor, well if there isn't anything else why I’ll turn this off. Would you like me to play it back for you? Dr. Burns: I can 't—do you have any other questions that ah. Dan: No I think you've covered it very well. Dr. Burns: At least I told you all the hard luck that we had (laughter) that you wanted, history, that's history. Dan: Oh that, that makes it interesting because it gives you an idea in other words most of our interviews why the people starting out you know were making $3.00 a week and when people realize that you try and raise a family on $3.00 a week why they're squeaking on 20 or 30,000 incomes a year why you wonder how they ever made it. Dr. Burns: Well, I had patients, one I’ll never forget, used to bring me a chicken. Poor old fellow he was a dirt farmer from out near Montrose and he’d bring in the skinniest, scrawniest chicken that there was but his heart was in the right place. Had another one bring in a rabbit—I’d never eaten rabbit before in my life but we were glad to get ‘em. Dan: Oh sure. Dr. Burns: Well another thing that we did which, I, I’m kind of sorry it isn’t that way today and that is we took care of the charity patients for nothing—like I would serve 6 months on and 6 months off at the General Hospital and ah I’ll say one thing that those charity patients got just as good care as your wealthiest patients got. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: Wonderful care. See, now with Medicaid and Medicare and all of that, that’s a thing of the past and I think sometimes it's too bad. We never got a penny for taking care of any of the charity patients from the City of Binghamton and the Town of Union used to pay us a dollar a day for the hospital calls that we made and that was the only thing that we ever got. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: I think ah sometimes it's just too bad that they didn't, the way it was of course welfare is so—Marion—can she listen to this when you play it back? Dan: Sure. Dr. Burns: I think it's too bad the way welfare is today, I mean it’s not like it used to be. Dan: No, no. Marion: Well he used to be on call for all the welfare, so-called “welfare patients.” Dr. Burns: That's what I said. Marion: There was no pay given at that time a t all. Dr. Burns: That's just what I told him. Marion: The doctors took care of them free of charge. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Marion: And he used to be on seeing them at a time. Dr. Burns: 6 months. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Marion: Never less than 4 months out of the year. Dan: Yeah, yeah, well things have changed an awful lot with the Medicare and Medicaid—some of them have gotten rich. Marion: They sure have. Dan: Yeah when you read about some of them that are collecting a quarter of a million dollars a year just from Medicare. Marion: It's ridiculous isn't it? Dan: Isn't it? Dr. Burns: I have one other interesting thing that I feel pretty proud of and that is I have the smallest baby that ever lived at Lourdes—she only weighed one pound and 12 oz when she was born and she went down to one pound and 7 oz and she's graduating this June as a Registered Nurse in North Carolina. Dan: Is that right? Dr. Burns: I feel pretty, pretty proud of her. Her mother— Marion: She's a beautiful girl. Dr. Burns: —was convinced, was convinced she was going to live and I was convinced as much that she wasn't going to make the grade but she did. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And the best part is she is right mentally. Dan: Uh huh. Dr. Burns: And that’s the nice part, she writes to me 2 or 3 times a year and she's going to send me an invitation when she graduates. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Burns: But those are things that make the practice of medicine worthwhile. I can't think of anything. Dan: Well if you can't think of anything else, Doctor, I'll turn this off and play it back for you. Dr. Burns: OK, maybe I better not listen to it. [PAUSE] *Dan: Dr. Burns would like me to make a correction in this interview—he retired in 1972, not 1942 as stated. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dr. John B. Burns Subject The topic of the resource Burns, John B. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Physicians -- Interviews; Elmira (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Immunization; Vaccination; Medicaid; Pediatrician; Vitanza, Dr. Description An account of the resource Dr. John B. Burns talks about his birth in Elmira and how he later opened the first certified pediatrician's office in the city of Binghamton, NY. He discusses his professional achievements in exchange transfusion combatting the RH factor, how sulfa drugs , penicillin, vaccination and immunization affected the practice of medicine. He also describes the evolution of his practice and struggles with accepting little or no payment before the advent of Medicare and Medicaid. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 10 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Burns, John B. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-16 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 30:34 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/3d73c341e8f198d0ac3aa4e95f354756.mp3 9d7a36a2fde45db28cbdf7dfaafe5444 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Goundrey, Eunice Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-06-22 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 42:08 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55931">Interview with Eunice Goundrey</a> Subject LCSH Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Eunice Goundrey Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 22 June 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Miss Eunice Goundrey of 17 Esther Avenue, Binghamton[, New York]. The date is 22 June, 1978. Eunice, you've, um, been a dancer most of your life. And we'd like to, ah, hear some of your viewpoints and experiences in that line. Also, anything else that you want to put on tape for this historical project. To begin with, where were you born, and what was your family background? Eunice: I was born in Binghamton, ah, in the old city hospital which is now General Hospital. Ah, my mother and father were both Binghamtonians. Ah, my mother's family was the, ah, S.J. Kelley engraving company and my father's family…ah, my granddad was Glen Goundrey. And, ah…at one time, he was a blacksmith in the area. And he went into building custom truck bodies and eventually, as he got older, was in charge of the Spaulding Bakery, ah, garage. And that's where he retired from. Wanda: Did he have his own business, this truck building? Eunice: Yes. On Noyes Island. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The Goundreys were originally from the Elmira area—Watkins Glen—and then they, they moved to Binghamton. Wanda: So your early years were spent right here on Esther Avenue, were they? Eunice: Yes. Wanda: And you've been here ever since? Eunice: I think I'm one of the very, one of the very few people that is still living in a home that she was brought to as a baby. [laughter] Wanda: That's true, in this day and age. Eunice: I've gone away and come back and decided this is where I wanted to stay. Wanda: Well how did you get started with, with, ah, dancing? What was your, who influenced you the most on that? Eunice: My mother. Wanda: Your mother. Eunice: My mother was a dancer. Ah, she had had dance training, and though she didn't go on professionally with it, everybody that I have ever talked with, ah, said that, ah, she…had that something extra special that, ah… I never saw my mother dance. And I'm sorry I didn't, but by the time I came along, you see, she had retired and had started to teach, but I—ah, there were no movies at that time for us to capture her, but, ah, she apparently was the darling of Binghamton as far as dance was concerned, and, ah, not so much now because most of her contemporaries are gone, but, ah, people while I was younger would say, "Oh your mother was absolutely, you know, just a beautiful dancer." So she started to teach, anyway, and as my sister and I came along she felt that dance was very much a part of every person's education—whether you used it or not—you benefited from it. So when we were three, four, five years old she had ballet classes and we were expected to take them. So we, ah, did our duty. And you know, Mommy was the teacher and, ah…as we got older, she felt that we should have other training besides just what she could give us. Wanda: Was she mainly a ballet dancer? Eunice: Yes. She did very little tap dancing, but, ah, some people come to town—ah, Lou Fields and Jack Evans, which she felt—um, were of good caliber and so she enrolled us in their school for the tap dancing and continued the ballet with us and from then on, you know, we went on. But she—ah, Mommy was the biggest influence. She never pushed either of us into the dance, but she encouraged us, and I think there's a difference. Wanda: And did your sister continue…to dance? Eunice: Through high school she did, but she didn't care anything about going on further with it. And, ah, when I was in high school, I was teaching for Fields and Evans and had made up my mind I definitely was never going to be a teacher. I was off to New York to perform and that's all there was to it. Well, I knew I had to go to school, you know, to get added training and so forth, but, ah, I never dreamed I would come back and be a teacher and find the fulfillment in it that I have found. Wanda: That's marvelous. So, so where did you continue with your dance lessons after you…? Eunice: I went to the—um, Ballet Arts School in Carnegie Hall for ballet and I also went to the Roy Dodge school, for tap. Jazz was just, just beginning to come in, so that it was just one of those things, you don't know whether it's going to take hold or not and my interest was in the tap and, and the ballet anyway, so that was where I fitted. [Interruption from a motorbike] Wanda: Then—ah, how long—did you live in New York while you were going to these two different schools? Eunice: Yes—um, Shirley Lewis was a former neighbor of mine and she was at NYU at the time, and she was looking for a roommate at the time that I was looking for a place to stay. And—ah, so our mothers got together and decided that the two of us should be roommates. Wanda: And how old were you at the time? Eunice: Eighteen. [laughter] Wanda: Whee—alone in the big city, eh? Eunice: Yes. Yeah. So I went to school and—ah, for a year. Just about. Yes. And then I took the audition at...well, I decided it was about time I made some money and that was a laugh. Um—I—but I wanted to do theatrical work as opposed to nightclub work. So I took an audition at—ah—the Latin Quarter, and also at Radio City Music Hall. And the Music Hall audition came first but—ah, they said they would let us know, which is normal, and then I got a recall from Music Hall. There were about a hundred girls in the first call—in audition—and then they asked a few of us to come back again. And out of that there were another hundred that were all there for audition. And out of—well, what turned out to be about two hundred girls, six of us were chosen. And at the time that acceptance came through, ah, the day before the acceptance had come from the Latin Quarter and I was really upset because I, I didn't really want to do the nightclub work. And I thought—but, you know, I really should do something. And then the Music Hall acceptance came, so I—that's the one I took—and I've never been unhappy. Nightclub work is different than theater—ahm—it's very often—ahm—at the time—ahm—a case where you, ah, must sit down with the customers and, you know, mingle a little bit. Nothing beyond that, but…ah, between shows, I wanted the time to myself. And, you know, I wanted to be a dancer, period. And in the theater you get that—ahm, in nightclub work, you're not so apt to. Wanda: The Latin Quarter has folded, hasn't it? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: And Radio City Hall has nearly folded. Eunice: Yes, it's on its last legs. Yes. Yeah. Ahm—this, ah, last season. Where as I understand it, the state has taken over the payroll and will keep it open at least for another year. Wanda: And with the Rockettes. Eunice: Yes. And the Rockettes now are being starred as they ought to be. Wanda: Good. Eunice: Ahm—I had a notice from the alumni association saying that in this last show that they're doing, the girls are doing three different numbers instead of just one appearance, as they usually do. So the girls—I'm sure they're not getting any more money—but they are at least, you know, coming into their own. Because whenever anybody speaks about Radio City, ahm, Music Hall, it's the Rockettes that come to mind. Wanda: Naturally. Eunice: So, ah…but they were always kind of played down as part of the production. And now they are the featured ones. Which is good. Wanda: So the publicity hasn't been bad. Eunice: No. No. It's a shame, though. Now the last show before the supposed closing, the crowds were around the blocks again and, you know, people were standing in line two and three hours to get in, waiting to get in the way it used to be years ago. And since the reprieve (chuckle) has been given—ahm—the crowds are down again and, ah, so I don't know whether it's the fact that, ah, Music Hall has outlived itself. I know other large theaters in New York…got to that point, but, ah, if it has outlived itself, I will feel better that they have had a year to think it over. Ah—I was told that in December they had gotten all their union contracts signed and were breathing a sigh of relief because that gave them all another two years, you know, before this hassle would start again. And then in January the management announced that the Hall would close. So everybody was panic-struck. And—ah, you know, to me they, they were going to make a major decision with not enough time to think about it. They, to me they will never be able to replace a building like that. The—ah, it was built during the Depression when labor was cheap. Ah—it has facilities in it that probably never could be re—ah—produced, you know, this day and age. Ah—so—to have it torn down and then three or four years from now say, “Gee, you know, we don't have any facility like this." I feel in a year's time they will have at least had a chance to think it over. If then they decide to do it, I will—I will not be happy, but at least I'll feel that they have followed through. Wanda: Do you remember the physical layout? Was it built especially for the theater? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: It was probably quite revolutionary at the time, then, wasn't it—when it was built? Eunice: Yes. That stage, Wanda, is half of the size of a football field. And—ah, you know, beside all the mechanical things that I, I don't know anything about, you know, but—just to lift that huge—big—ah, front curtain took systems that were almost unheard of at the time that that was built in ‘32. So it's, uh, it was… Wanda: What were the living facilities like in the—in the theater? Didn't you have a place— Eunice: No, you never lived in the theater. There was an infirmary and there was a—well, like a, a den sort of thing for the girls to relax in. There was a cafeteria downstairs. That was for all the Music Hall force. Ah, anyone employed there was, you know, could eat there. Ahm…but it was, it was a glorified backstage life. Ahm—primarily dressing rooms and rehearsal halls. There is a rehearsal hall above the theater, ahm, that is, has the same dimensions as the stage. So that the 36 Rockettes, for instance, could, could get in the rehearsal hall, you know, to do a complete rehearsal…with no problems…with spacing and everything else. Wanda: Were there backup girls to—ah, in case somebody couldn't go on? Eunice: There were always thirty-six on stage and twelve on vacation. So if there was a problem then one of the girls on vacation would be called back in. Now you were called—ahm—it was three weeks on, three weeks on stage and one week off, but of that one week off you had to rep—I think—as I recall the week went from Wednesday to Tuesday. So you were required to be back in there on Sunday to find out your spacing from the week that you were coming in. So you didn't really have a full week off. You weren't dancing on stage, but you were, you know, required to be around. Ah—no—many a girl went on stage feeling—very badly, but ahm, the shoes went on and costume went on and the dance went on and you went off and you laid down between shows and you started all over again [chuckles] for four or five shows a day. Wanda: And how often did they change the theme of the, the show? There was always a terrific thing about the Easter show and the Christmas show and the seasonal— Eunice: Well, the holidays—ahm—governed the change of that particular—of the holiday shows, but basically it was the attraction of the movie that governed the stage show. If people were not coming to see the movie then we might run three weeks. If they were piling in, we might do the show for five weeks, because the, the stage show never changed unless the movie changed. So…and then, ah, we would have a week's notice because the, the planning—the preliminary work—is done far in advance for a show, but for staging it, it's all done within a week's time. So Mr. Markert, the Director of the Rockettes at the time, said that if you couldn't learn a routine in a week he couldn't use you. So you're learning one routine while you were dancing on stage doing another one, and—ah, it's an experience but it's, it's, ah… Wanda: Must have been a fast pace. Eunice: It was. I enjoyed it very, very much. I was also very glad to get out of it. [laughs] Wanda: What do you suppose the average, ah, time was that a girl would stay with the Rockettes? Eunice: I don't know the average. Ahm—some of the girls were there for years, and years and years. Ahm—one of the girls, I know, opened the Music Hall and she retired about ten years ago, you know, and I'm sure that was the exception, but—a lot of the girls stayed for a long, long time and there were others that didn't, and I was one of them. Wanda: Do you keep in touch through this alumni association that you have? Eunice: Yes. Ahm—during all this furor of Music Hall closing, ahm—of course there was a lot of publicity in all parts of the country. And, ah, I made a couple of phone calls to girls that I had…I knew their names but I, you know, had long since lost touch with them...but—ahm—when they wanted to interview me here on the radio, I wanted to be sure my facts were up to date, so I got in touch with one and she put me in touch with another one and—it was very interesting. There is a bond from having worked at Music Hall .. that is lasting. It doesn't make any difference whether you knew that particular person at the time or not. Ahm—the fact that you were somebody that worked in the, in the Hall, that, that makes it. So—I have a great big family that's spread all over the country. Wanda: A very exclusive club, I would say. Eunice: Yes. Yes. We're all very proud to have worked there and been part of it. 'Cause it's—ahm—well, it's unique. Ahm, there's no other house in all the world like that. The seating capacity is, think it's 6200. That's a lot of seats to fill every day—four times a day, and that's what it really should be doing, you see. And that's the problem now, that, ah, they're not filling those 6200 seats. Wanda: Well, New York itself has changed so much and so people are a little reluctant to go, just for— Eunice: I am a little reluctant to go, even—these days, ahm. If I am in the City for a dance convention or something of the sort I always go to Music Hall. I, you know I like to go and I know that's one place I can take any of my students and not have to worry about what they're going to see, but we used to always go to the last show—the nine o'clock show—and then go back to the hotel. Now we never wait for the last show, we go to the early evening, you know, six-thirty, seven o'clock, so I can get those kids in off the street. Wanda: Sad. Eunice: It is. So—and I know the people around the New York area itself are worse than I am. They won't, and they won’t go on the streets of New York after dark. So if that's the feeling in the metropolitan area, nothing's going to…I don't think, you know, be a great big moneymaker until the climate of the city changes. People going to theaters will get a hotel and—ah, take a cab and get a cab outside the theater and go back to the hotel. They're—ah, very much afraid to be on the streets. And when I was living down there I felt just as safe as anything. No qualms at all. I walked the streets completely by myself and—no worry at all, but I, I don't have that feeling now. And I don't think it's all me, having gotten older and looking at things differently. Ahm—when my brother-in-law was alive, ahm—and Dick was Assistant Chief of Police here, and he used to warn me, and when he and my sister were first married he never said a word. But he would say, you know, "You just—be careful where you go," and from him that was enough, because, that was enough warning. He was not an alarmist. Wanda: So you're very lucky to be there at the time that you were, weren't you? Eunice: I think so. Yes. Yeah. Wanda: It would be an entirely different thing now. Eunice: I don't really encourage my kids—ahm—to think theater and professional dance. Wanda: Your students. Eunice: Mm-hm. If they want to, you know, I would not discourage them, but at one time, you know, the only reason you danced was so that you could be on stage or—or—ah, continue with the dance part of it in some way and, ahm, I have felt or a long, long time and perhaps because of my mother's influence again, ah—dance should be a part of everybody's education. If, if you dance you will appreciate it, you'll also understand it better and you gain from the discipline that is required from it, as well as the grace and the poise that comes, you know, from having pursued it a little bit longer. But, ahm, I think more and more people now are looking at it that this will add to a child's education. From…as they get older what they do with it is their own business, but it's still, it's like taking piano or an instrument or it's part of the artistic education…for the youngster. Wanda: It builds confidence. Eunice: It does. It does. Wanda: And poise, as you say. Eunice: I…one of my favorite stories is, um…a dear little girl that I had years ago. Her mommy, ahm…she was a preschooler and this was such a shy child. Just, she would not come out of her little shell for anything. And we had her in class—we started in the fall, and by springtime that child was flower girl in a wedding, and the mommy said she just pranced down that aisle and nothing bothered her. And she said, "I have to thank you, because it's the dancing class that has done it." So it, you know…little things like that, ah, make it worthwhile. Wanda: Not a little thing, really. Eunice: Well, no. If you can bring a child out...yes, it's…it's a good feeling. You know that you've done something. Wanda: Have you dealt with, ah, children with physical problems that dancing has helped? Eunice: One of the reasons that I am in business right now is that, ah, when I first came back from New York, my mother got a call from a friend of hers saying that—ah, the lady's grandchild had been run over by a car and both her legs had been broken. Her doctor had taken her as far as he could, and now she needed some exercise—supervised exercise. And he recommended dancing. And would, this lady asked my mother if she would take this child. And Mommy said, "No.” She had hung up her dancing shoes for the last time. But she said, "Eunice is home and maybe she would do it." Well, when I came home I didn't want to teach. That was not—I didn't know what I was going to do, but I wasn't going to teach. So I thought it over and I thought, “Well, I'll take this child with the idea that, you know…if I decide I'm not going to do this, ahm, I will warn the grandmother ahead of time.” Well, that was perfectly Okay. So I took the child, and we began to see the improvement in her. And she was with me for quite a while, and then they moved away, and— Wanda: How did you start with her? What did you do to begin with? Eunice: Basic ballet exercises because the ballet will tone all muscles, and it makes them work, and…ah, with this youngster I had to be careful that she, ah…we didn't push the muscles too hard, because they were in a weakened state to begin. But, ah, she gave me back as much as I was giving her. And I found this reciprocation was apparently what I needed. The applause was not enough - performing, and I knew. I would sit in the dressing room...there had to be more to life than applause and backstage dressing rooms, and so forth. And, ah…so the more I got involved with the kids, the more satisfied I was. Wanda: And from that one student you started taking others? Eunice: Uh huh. And I started that child right here in the living room right in front of the fireplace. We used a dining room chair as a bar, you know, for support for her. And, ah, then the following year, ahm, I sub-leased space in the Masonic Temple from another teacher, and the year after that I was on my own. Still in the Masonic Temple, and I'm still there. Wanda: Oh, still there? Eunice: Yep. We did twenty-ninth year this year. In March I was teaching twenty-nine years. Wanda: How many recitals is that? Eunice: About twenty-eight. Wanda: Yeah? Eunice: Mm-hm. And I have no idea the number of children I've handled, you know, in that length of time. Ahm…I would say probably close to 3,000. That doesn't seem possible! (laughter). But I'm getting, now, some children of—of students of my own, you know, that I had when they were young. It, ahm— Wanda: Amazing. Eunice: Yes, it it's very amazing to me because I don't feel that much older. You know, how can  these girls have babies of their own that they're bringing to me? [laughter] Wanda: Well, it's been good for you physically, too - this sort of work, hasn't it? Keeps you young. Eunice: I've been very happy in the business. Yes. I think anybody dealing with children...stays young. And of course the dance business is an active profession. I'm not one that can sit in a chair and teach. I'm up working with the kids and—ahm, so that does keep me physically active and I hope physically young. Wanda: When do you start with them, what ages? Eunice: I don't take them before they're three and a half. There are, there are teachers that will take them younger than that, but I feel that's glorified babysitting. Wanda: Oh. Eunice: I want them to have an attention span where I can work with them. Ahm—they are not going to be ballerinas or tap dancers—well, I don't put them in tap classes 'til they're five—but they aren't going to be little ballerinas, ahm, by the time they're four and a half. But they will at least know what it is to take a—a dance lesson, and they know that, ahm, we work for a while and we also play, but we work first and then we play. And it's, it's very nice to see these children, ahm, learn the patterns that are expected of them. And I find even with the older ones that...maybe some of the problem in today's society is that kids are not given enough responsibility. When we did recital last weekend, I had no adults backstage at all. And I never have had to have. I ask my teenagers if they will take over a group of younger children and be responsible for them so they are where they're supposed to be. And when the teenagers dance, then the little ones have to stay and watch and—ah, no hitches at all, and I have never had any problems. The older ones assume the responsibility and they know I expect it of them and, ahm…they don't let me down. So I—ahm—I wonder if, if maybe we're doing too much for our kids, rather than… Wanda: I agree. Eunice: …rather than, you know, making them, ahm, letting them grow up and do the things that they ought to do as young people, if we are not trying to do too much for them ourselves. Wanda: And accept the responsibilities as they grow into it. Eunice: Mm-hm. Wanda: Then—ah, have you had—ah, some special students that you'd like to talk about—that made a career of it or anything like that? Eunice: No, ahm—one of my students—ah well, we had two of the girls…audition for, ah, one of the Roxy Theater lines. That was for one of the touring lines, and they both made it, and I was naturally very proud and the kids were pleased. So they were to go to New York for rehearsal and, ah, I think they worked for maybe three or four weeks. Ah—that's the way it was when I was working for them—and then they would go on tour. And the girls were there one week and one of them got homesick, and the other one wouldn't stay without her and so that was the end of that. (laughter). But none of my other kids have been really professionally inclined. My niece is a fine little dancer, but she has done it and completely enjoyed it, but doesn't want to follow it. She thought when she started in at Harpur last year, she might want to be a lawyer—ahm—she's not so sure she wants to do that now—ahm—she's, you know, just taking a liberal arts course, but it's—ah, there again, it's her life. She must do what she wants to with it that will satisfy her, not her mother or me or anybody else. Wanda: The dancing has been a good discipline along the way. Eunice: Very good...very good. Ahm—and she has a real flair for it. Ahm—it's—you know, I think she could do something with it if she decided she wanted to, but apparently that's not going to fill her life for her. She wants something different. And she has taught with me, you know, on a part-time basis, and she has a great way with the kids, so—um, if she ever decides, you know, that she wants to teach as a sideline for whatever profession she chooses, she can do that and, and still, you know, enjoy her dancing. But she continued this, this year even though she has been to college and, and I have no reason to think that she won't stick with it another year or two. So it's—ah, there's a lot of self-satisfaction that comes out of it as well as satisfying somebody else. It's, it's…I, I think it's, it's a two-way street. Wanda: Do you have any preference for, for teaching ballet or tap? What other types of dancing? Eunice: There is modern jazz, too. Twenty years ago I would have said yes, very definitely, that I had a choice—ahm—the tap was always my favorite, but if, now, if somebody said, "You may teach one or the other," I would feel that I had lost one arm or the other if I couldn't do, you know, everything. Ah—it becomes—each is a different expression and you're able to bring different things out of different people with different types of dance. Wanda: Modern music seems to fit in with the jazz type of dancing. Eunice: Yes. Now...the...young teenagers—they love the jazz, and, ahm—that—a ballet background helps in that. And a little bit of tap doesn't hurt either, but—ahm—the jazz is, is an expression for the young people. Wanda: More than an interpretive thing, isn't it? Eunice: Well—uhm—interpretive to a point. When you're doing modern jazz you're always interpreting somebody else's choreography. In my studio it's my choreography. Ahm—the way I would choreograph a routine. I do encourage the kids to, you know, to give to me what they're feeling with what I'm also giving to them, and—ah, it's very interesting—you get different styles coming out. But I—now there are other schools that there is one style and if you study there, you know, you must have—everybody looks alike…like they came out of a machine. And I, I, I feel that—ah, you know, the kids should be encouraged to express themselves, too. If I see something I don't like, I'll tell them. But I also, if I see something I do like, I tell them. Wanda: Do you teach—a precision routine in your classes? Eunice: Yes. That is...I have two precision lines. The junior line I call the Goundrey Girls and the senior line are the Eunettes. And—a—so that the younger kids are working to make a place for themselves in one of these two lines. So we always close the recital with the Eunettes. That has been forever and ever and ever, and it probably will be until they roll me out in a wheelchair. [laughter] Wanda: With a high kick, huh? Eunice: But it's—you know we all have our, our own thing that we do, and our studio crowd now expects the Eunettes to close the show and so we do. The thing that is difficult these days is to find music for a line routine. Now that sounds strange, but the disco beat is not a precision line beat, and it's very difficult. And this year we went back to—ah, a version of “In The Mood” for the Eunette number. Wanda: Is that a fact! Eunice: It was a new recording, but it was in the old style and it worked beautifully. In fact the Boston Pops recorded it and so we had a fine orchestra behind us...(laughter) by recording—yep. (Phone rings) Excuse me. Wanda: Um—could you tell us something about the connection with the Roxy road shows? Eunice: Yes. After I left Radio City Music Hall…ehm, I, you know…went back to school for a while and—um, I decided that I still had to make some money. I was also working at Wanamaker’s in New York and—ah, I—so I took the audition and—at the Roxy—and at the time they were hiring for dancers that they sent out on the road to do State and County Fair work. And so I—they were hiring, you know, like a hundred girls. There was no competition there, not really. And so I went out on the road the first year and during the summer and, ah, thoroughly enjoyed it. However, my family was not very happy at all. When I said I was going to work in the fairs all they could see was a 'girlie' show. And—I—my grandfather, who was very influential in my life, and when I told him, he just had a fit. And I said, "Grandpa, we will play Elmira," and we were playing in front of the grandstand, which would be an arena-type—today an arena-type show. And, ahm—the Roxyettes did five numbers in the show and then there were vaudeville acts in between. It, it was a very lovely stage show—outdoor presentation. So, ahm, I knew what I was doing, but my grandfather was far from convinced, I'll tell you. And when I came, got to Elmira, he was there waiting. (Laughter). I had made the agreement with him that he would see the show and see the set-up, and if he did not approve then I would leave, I would give my notice. Well he was there—we played Elmira for the week, and he was there the first day and he met the company manager and approved of him, which was one step, and he met everyone else and I think he was there three—or four times during that week, really checkin' this thing out for his grandchild. And—he was there to see us leave on our way to Ottawa then, which was our next stop, and he kissed me and he said, "You have a good time sweetness, you're, you're in good hands." So I got back in after, off that tour—we got back in on a Sunday, and on Monday the theater called and said, "We are doing one of the routines that you did on the road and we need a replacement. Will you please come in?" So I was there then, ahm, you know, for the rest of the time that I was in New York. So, you know, that was a case where they—ahm—apparently had had good reports on me, you know, so I walked right into that—into the theater line, there was no problem. And very much enjoyed it there, but it was there that I began to wonder, you know, is there something more to this life than applause and dressing rooms and what have you? Wanda: Was that four or five shows a day? Eunice: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. And then you rehearsed the one you were going to do, you know, prior to that, in the morning and between shows. But I made some awfully good friends there and I'm, I'm so glad I had the opportunity for those things. And then when I did come home and started to teach, ahm, the Roxy called me back and wanted to know if I wouldn't work summers for them. So I really had the very best of the two lives that I was leading. During the summer I would do the professional work for the Roxy, and I would come back home and open the school in October and work through until June and go into New York and do the same thing over again. And I did that for about seven years. So I finally decided, you know, you must make your choice—one way or the other—and the teaching meant more to me than the performing. And of course when, these days when you're teaching you can still perform with the kids. And so I, I've ended up doing exactly what I wanted to do. I'm so glad somebody didn't say to me, "You must work in an office the rest of your life." (Laughter). Maybe there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to teach dancing, but— Wanda: Well, how about the costumes? Um—I happen to know that you're a pretty good girl with a sewing machine. Ah—have you always been involved in making and designing the costumes for these recitals? Eunice: Yes. When I first started to teach we had to make all the costumes and—ah, the years have gone by, so costume business has become very commercial, and by sending measurements to various companies we are now able to buy most of the costumes at a fairly reasonable price. By the time you would figure materials and labor and, you know, having to have someone make them, ahm...at least when you order them they come...they're all alike. There are very few alterations have to be done on them. They are done with elastic backs or elastic sides, you know, for the heavier child and the slimmer child—to compensate. Ahm, and from the standpoint that I am doing the direction o the show, then I choose the costumes to go with what I feel, you know, is needed. Ah—the parents all pay for the costumes and then the youngsters have them. Ah—there are always a few that I make each year. Ahm, I think I did eight or nine of them this year that—ah, well I wanted a certain thing and I didn't find it, and in one case I had three little boys in, in a tap class, and they were going to be cowboys. And the girls’ costumes that I had found were white and they were trimmed in blue and white gingham. And they were to wear the little white western hats and, you know, have a few blue spangles. So I asked the mommies of the boys to find some gingham shirt. And they scoured this town. And one of the mommies said, "The only thing we have found is a size 8 for twelve dollars." And I said, "No way." So I made them. And we came out much better financially—ahm—and I had exactly what I wanted them to have and—ah, you know, but it, it's a rare case like that, these days, that you can't really find what you're after. Ahm—but there are so many costume houses now that there's usually a pretty good variety, and I purposely don't order from one house because then it gets to be all the same style. But, ah, costuming is a lot easier now than it was twenty years ago. Wanda: How fortunate! You'd have to have an attic overflowing. Eunice: Yes. Ohhhh. I do have one set of Santa Claus outfits that I made for my Eunettes, and—ah, that was to be an extra number at one time, so I, I made the big coats, and the girls wear red tights, you know, because for a dancing girl you have to be able to see their legs, so—ah, the Santa Claus jackets and caps I kept myself. And at Christmas time when we go around to the nursing homes and so forth, then I bring these out and whoever happens to be in the line at the time wears them—there's no real fit to them—and, ah, that makes a very nice closing to our Christmas program, see. But—ah—yes, there are many things in my attic! [both laugh] Wanda: Well, and a lot of memories in your head, too, and I thank you very much— Eunice: I've enjoyed this. Wanda: —for telling us about it. Eunice: It's fun to reminisce! Wanda: It certainly is. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eunice Goundrey Subject The topic of the resource Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Description An account of the resource Eunice Goundrey talks about her family's past and her mother's encouragement of her dance career from her childhood through her training at Ballet Arts School (New York, N.Y.) and the Roy and Jane Dodge school and her career as a Rockette at Radio City Music Hall. She discusses the impact of being a Rockette and later touring with the Roxyettes, a travelling dance group. She discusses her years teaching dance to children, methods of teaching, dancing as therapy, and highlights specific people and students that affected her in particular. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 29 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Goundrey, Eunice ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-22 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 42:08 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d70193fa64eba7966d0f5bde51a60dd1.mp3 d6c758aaf2037b7083f54c97eac3da93 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Burbank, Sarah Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-07-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 15:52 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55874">Interview with Sarah Burbank</a> Subject LCSH Burbank, Sarah -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Home economics teachers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Drexel University; Radio programs; Radio stations; Cooking School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Sarah Burbank Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 12 July 1978 Susan: Mrs. Burbank, could we begin this interview by having you tell us something about your early beginnings? Where you were born? Something about your parents, what they did, and your early life in the community? Sarah: Well, let’s go back a little further to my mother. Ah, Mother was ah, one of twelve children, Welsh, all Welsh, and ah, she went to, ah, Bloominburgh to a school to be a teacher and ah, my grandfather and grandmother were very interested in the Church, Congregational Church, and they used to entertain the, ah, minister, you know. Well, one day they had him at the house for dinner and, ah, he said to my grandfather, he said, "Oh, Mr. Jones, you have a wonderful family,” and my grandfather said, "But you haven't seen our Gertie." That was my mother, and as soon as Gertie came home he married her—I mean, not as soon, but they—they fell in love and he married her. Well, he was a Minister from Wales. He, ah, got his degree from Yale and ah, he got very sick. He died before I was born, and so mother of course went back to my grandmother's and, ah, she taught school and so my grandmother raised me. So that was the beginning, of course, of a spoil, because there were a lot of aunts and uncles and, ah, I loved my grandmother. I didn't like my mother much because she did discipline me. She wouldn't have me spoiled when she was home but grandma used to teach me things, and one thing—this table, which is a marble top table, she taught me how to dust it. I was dusting it, you know, just back and forth any old way and she said, "Oh look, you must go into those little holes there and dust it thoroughly,” that's one thing, and then she let me iron but I had to get the—the handkerchief straight and iron them straight, fold them perfectly straight, and I remember those things and I think they've stuck by me. Maybe made me a little prissy, I don't know, but I don't see the youngsters doing it nowadays, but ah, anyway mother married again and took me away from my grandmother, and at the time I didn't like it one bit but I can see now that it was better for me, and so ah, my father—I called him “Father”—stepfather was as good and better than some fathers I know. He was a wonderful man but, ah, Mother took out an insurance policy for me to go to school ’cause she had gone to school, and if I remember what she told me, it cost her $500 to go at her time. You're smiling. It doesn't seem possible, and then when I went she took out this policy for $1,000, which would come due when I was of age to go, and I went down to Drexel when I went to school. Susan: Drexel. Sarah: Drexel, Philadelphia to take Home Economics. At that time, I went in ’18 and I think—1918—that was a new course, and it wasn't thought too much of right then, cooking and sewing, you know, you could learn that at home. Well anyway I went there, and ah, I don't know whether I got through, ah, for a thousand dollars or not, but I know I helped to wait on table, ah, to make a little more money, and in those days I made $4.00 a week but it seemed like a fortune to me and, ah, well, that was in 1919. I had two years and then I went to teach in Pennsylvania, and Cockinville was the name of the place, down there near Philadelphia, and ah, I went for $1,000 a year, that's what I was paid, nine months, and then I moved up to, ah, Brooklyn, Pennsylvania, which was another little small, but then I taught this Home Economics, that was three years, and then I came to Binghamton, and I taught one year here, but then I was married and our daughter was born and I stayed home. Susan: What did Mr. Burbank do? Sarah: He was an insurance man for Prudential and ah, I, ah—I stayed home about five years, I think, until one day Mr. Maston, who was manager of WNBF here, the only radio station we had then, ah, called and asked me if I'd be interested in doing a cooking school of the air. I didn't know what it was all about, but you know youth, well I say, they're brash but they don't have any nerves and they're not afraid of anything. I wasn't then, but I said, "Well we'll try it," and we had to go through voice tests and reading tests and things like that, and finally we started. I thought it would be for, oh, a few weeks, because they had cooking schools in the schools. I mean they would have a woman come—Home Economics, and she would do it for two or three days, I don't know if you knew that or not, but then ah, I started and went on for a year and, ah, then they decided to just have it radio, and so from then on, well, I think I was doing that for twenty-one years. Susan: That long? Sarah: I thought it would be for about two years, but in the meantime of course my daughter was growing, but I was very fortunate to have a woman come in and take care of her when I was gone, you know, and I was able to do the work, ah, for the week. I mean, she would come clean through, you know, and if Rachel, my daughter, was sick, why, she would come over and stay with her while I was gone, but I wasn't gone too long doing radio, you know. Ah, well, the Cooking School of the Air finally went into television, and I didn't want to do that. I'd had—that's a lot of work. (Chuckle.) I don't want to do a lot of work, but you know—- Well, did you ever do any? Susan: No. Sarah: Well, you know what you have to do. I did it because I wanted everything to come out right. I had a girl helping me on the cooking school, and she'd help me here. We'd make something what we were going to do that day. We'd do it, oh, quite a few weeks ahead, because ah, we made a recipe folder to give out and they had to be printed and I had to try them first, then ah, we'd go down there the morning of the school—go down to the store. It was in McLean's Silver Salon up on the fifth floor. I'll bet you don't remember that either? Susan: No. Sarah: Well, they had their fashion shows and all sorts of things there, and then we'd do that in the morning again so the women could have it to taste, and then in the afternoon we'd do it in front of everybody, so it was too much work for the few of us who were doing it, you know, but of course we had sponsors, too, and we had to, well, we had to give them quite a bit of time. I think some days I'd have as many as seven or eight. Susan: You did your own commercials? Sarah: Yes, yes, and they would send them to me, the material, and then I could do it whichever way I wanted to, and that went through all the time I was on radio, but ah, it was very interesting. I enjoyed it very much meeting the people, you know, and I had guests on the—on the air, I had them on the cooking school, too, but it was a lot of fun. Susan: What was the name of your program? Sarah: The Sarah Burbank Show. Well, Mr. Maston thought that was best. I left it all up to them, I just did what they thought would be better, and that was, I can see now that was better, because we changed time, sometimes it would be fifteen minutes, and again they'd make it twenty minutes and change the format a little bit, but during that time my daughter, ah, grew up, graduated and from high school and from college. She went to St. Lawrence and then she married. Susan: What did she study? Sarah: Well, she studied business—business administration, but, but never did work at it, she got married, ah, she graduated in June and was married the next February, and ah, has two children, and I enjoy them so much, the grandchildren, they’re wonderful. We've had a very full life, my husband and I—we, ah, didn't do extensive traveling, but we went to Florida after we both retired, out to California, Canada, and just have a cottage, and so it's been a very full life—very enjoyable, and it's been wonderful. Susan: Are you active with any of the local clubs? Sarah: Not now, I was, ah—I was on the board of the YWCA for a while, and on the board of the Civic Club, too, and of course PTA when Rachel was in school, but ah, no others and not now, not too much now. Well, you know, you give over to the younger people and let them do the work now. It's only fair. Susan: True. Sarah: Yes, I think so, and ah, I don't feel as though I could do very much, that is, to keep on, you know, like I used to for the different clubs. Susan: Mrs. Burbank, it's been very nice chatting with you, and if you don't have anything more to add to this, why, I think we'll close the interview. Sarah: Fine. Susan: Thank you very much. Sarah: Thank you for coming. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sarah Burbank Subject The topic of the resource Burbank, Sarah -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Home economics teachers -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Drexel University; Radio programs; Radio stations; Cooking School Description An account of the resource Sarah Burbank talks about her childhood and her fathers death prior to her birth, her education at Drexel University in Philadelphia, PA, and her experience teaching home economics in Binghamton, NY. She discusses her project 'Cooking School of the Air' by Mr. Marston, the manager of WNBF radio station that lasted 21 years. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 9 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Burbank, Sarah ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 15:52 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f47d0e5b73bb5d65fe2d0e3fbaa7fd5f.mp3 386f7e04bf514426c5a9cfafac14db1c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/45ec1e7f01012ee3ed7ec53d4c179a4e.mp3 633094c42297d285387d7a16a60e1c3c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Perhach, Michael M. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-07-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:51 Minutes ; 6:25 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55995">Interview with Michael M. Perhach</a> Subject LCSH Perhach, Michael M. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pharmacists -- Interviews; Albany College of Pharmacy; National Association of Retail Druggists (U.S.); New York State Board of Pharmacy; Junior High Pharmacy; Binghamton Exchange Club; Binghamton Recreation Commission; Kalurah Temple; Russian Orthodox Religion Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael M. Perhach Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 12 July 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, talking to Michael M. Perhach of 17 Crary Ave., Binghamton, NY, on July 12, 1978. Michael, will you tell us about your life and experiences in the community? Michael: Where do you want me to start? Do you want me to start with my mother and dad, where they were born and everything? Good. My father was born in Varinov, Austria-Hungary on March 4, 1877 and he came to America in May 4, 1894a—went to American schools—went right to Wilkes-Barre and became a choir director in Wilkes-Barre in 1896—at the salary of twenty dollars a month. I happen to see some old notes here that he wrote about 65 or 70 years ago and I translated. It is written in the Russian language, very nice handwriting, and I translated it from the Russian to the English. He was ordained a Reader in 1905 by the late Patriach Tihon—ordained a deacon May 22, 1909—and the following day, May 23, 1909 he was ordained a priest by Metropolitan Platon of New York City in New York City. The reason he waited until 1909 he was serving with Archpriest Toth who was one of the first who accepted Orthodoxy in America. Father Toth was a priest in the Wilkes-Barre parish, at that time, and he made the remark at one stage, I know, my dad used to tell me that he said, "I don't want you to be ordained a priest until after I die." Well, Father Toth wanted him to remain to be as his psalomshchik or his choir director and reader. But, Father Toth died on May 9 and sure enough, two weeks later my father decided then to be ordained a priest. He received many many nagradi or promotions what we call for his services to the Orthodox Church. His first parish up in Canada—Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba. In fact, at the time he was ordained he had three children, my oldest sister, Alexandra, Nicholas and John - and my sister, Lydia, was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba and then from there we went to Jacob's Creek, PA. That's where I was born—that's some 66-65 years ago and from Jacob's Creek we went to Brownsville, PA. He had parishes at, then, at Bayonne, NJ, and finally in Binghamton, NY, where he had his last parish—when we came to Binghamton, NY, why, that is the reason why I am in here. I came to Binghamton back in 1927. My mother, however, was born in America—was born in Wilkes-Barre Sept. 26, 1887. She just passed on last November at the age of ninety. My dad passed on will be 25 years this August, August 29. I started to talk about my dad's various promotions, now he received the Bereda, soft Bereda in 1916, then the hard Bereda or the kamilavka, as we call it, in 1917 and became an Archpriest in 1925 and he received a Palitza in 1938. The Palitza is one of the great honors given typical profound zeal for faith and for work for Orthodoxy and is conferred on the record, more or less on the record of honor. I told you, I have two brothers and two sisters and I am the youngest of all of them. We came to Binghamton, of course, because of this parish. My dad then retired. I went to grammar school in Brownsville, PA, then we went to Mingo Junction. I skipped Mingo Junction, Ohio, where I went to grammar school—then we went to Bayonne, NJ—we were there for a period of nine months. I went for one year of high school then came to Binghamton in 1927. I had two years of high school here, graduated from Binghamton Central in the year of 1930. I stayed out of school a year—in fact, I worked at the Carlova Perfume Factory and while working at the perfume factory—why—my dad wanted me—first he asked—if I wanted to become a priest. I said, "No," I said, "I'll think about it"—although I was close to the church—and all—I was directing the choir at the church when I was fifteen years old and I had a fairly good voice, so, I was singing in the choir, also. My dad said, "All right, stay out of school a year and then decide what you want." In the meantime, my uncle, John Yosack, in Wilkes-Barre was a undertaker. He wanted me to be an undertaker, so, I was to choose between an undertaker and a priest. Well, I stayed out of school a year—got a job with Carlova Perfume Factory and going to work at 7:30 o'clock in the morning till 4. One morning (winter) when I was going to work in the snow I decided, I said, “Well, this is not for me.” So, I came home told my dad–well, incidentally, my brother, Nick, was a pharmacist—”I think I will go into—pharmacy.”  The following September I went to Albany College of Pharmacy. In that time that was a three year course and I graduated Albany College of Pharmacy in 1934. I was born in Jacob's Creek, like I said, I was graduated from Albany College of Pharmacy in 1934. I came to Binghamton, naturally. I was living in Binghamton. I worked for one year and a half at the Junior High Pharmacy, at the time it was owned by Everett Crone—Crone Pharmacy and after year and half I bought the store, that's in 1936 in February. I've been in business—since 42 years or 43 years. I've been very active in the pharmacy profession. I was a member of Alpha Theta Chapter of Phi Delta Chi Fraternity. In 1949 I took a partner, Charles Jakaitis, we call him, Chick, as a junior partner. One time we had two stores, then three stores, then two stores and now, we just have one store, Junior High Pharmacy. I was president of the New York Pharmaceutical Society in 1953 and 1954, I think it was, and was member of the Executive Committee for about 12 years, and then decided to go to the National Pharmaceutical Politics so, I was a member of the National Association of Retail Druggists Executive Committee became its president 1968-1969. The National Association Retail Druggists is a organization composed of independent pharmacies, some 32 to 35,000—which took me away from the business for a while—for a whole year—was making trips to various pharmaceutical state conventions and also to other meetings and all with the association. The headquarters are in Chicago—at the present time the headquarters are in Washington, D.C. I'm past president, I've also active with the Federated Russian Orthodox Clubs, commonly known as the "R" Club. I was president of the Federated Russian Orthodox Clubs in 1941-1942 for two years. I was also about three or four years later a member of the Metropolitan Council which is the council of the composed of a priest and three lay persons in the Orthodox Church of America. At that time, the late Metropolitan Theophilis was the Metropolitan. I was also active with the Exchange Club and a past president of Binghamton Exchange Club, past Exalted Ruler of the Elks No. 852 in Binghamton. In the city, I was on the Recreation Commission appointed by the late Walker Lounsberry some 30 years ago—I served on that commission for about 24 years, and four different times I was its chairman, active in many of the civic and community projects. I’m a member of the Binghamton Lodge Masons #177, Otsiningo Consistory and the Kalurah Temple (Shrine). Also, this marks my 50th year singing in our choir in the St. Mary's Assumption Church on Baxter street. Also, I sang with the Otsiningo Quartet for 10 years. I found in addition to this, I found time to run my business and all and I might say a very successful business. I have one son who is 26 years old now, like his dad, also, went to Albany College of Pharmacy—graduated in 1975—he's a licensed pharmacist and he is taking over most of the management of the business, now. Nettie: Michael, I think you wanted to add something to this— Michael: Yes, I married the former Julia Sabol on February 27, 1949. I mentioned we have one son, 26 years old. The story goes—I was married on February 27, 1949 and our son was born on February 21—that was three years later—I am happily married. Is there anything more you want to hear? Nettie: I was asking you what you think of the generics they are talking about these days. Michael: Well the generic substitution law, I think you mean, that went into effect April 1st. Nettie: Yes. Michael: Well, the generic substitution law was a law that was supposedly, a consumer-oriented law, hoping to save the consumers—pharmacy, drug—consumers—money. But, really, it doesn't work out that way. It is added a burden on a lot of pharmacies because they have to duplicate the inventory and it's true, some of the drugs you might be able to buy some of the drugs for $7.50 per 100, you can get a generic for $2.50. But there are good and bad generics. There are some generic houses, in fact, the health department came out with a book—a green book—about 30-40 pages, in which they said these drugs are permissible to substitute and yet, they are not obtainable. Manufacturers, we never heard of, some of the manufacturers—some of the "bathtub"—so-called "bathtub" manufacturers—now some of the drugs don't even dissolve in the system—they’re not absorbed in the system. And the reputable stores, like our own, we handle about 20-25 of the most commonly generic drugs. For example on the diuretic which would be Diuril—hydrochlorothiazide. We handle Park Davis, which is a reputable company, and there is a saving of about 1/3 on what you would pay for your regular brand of the Diuril. The same is true on Librium—chlordiazepoxide. We do have generics on that, and which is quite a saving—where the physician now on all these blanks he has a permission granted for generic substitution or not—if he signs on the left—you must dispense as written and if he signs on the right—then we must substitute. The physician is supposed to discuss this with the patient, of course, physicians are busy. A lot of them do, some do and some don't. However, if they do sign on the left we must dispense as written—if he signs on the right it's not our choice, it's not the customer, patient's choice, we must substitute—if its substitutable and if we don't have it in stock we just have to give the prescription back and have to go to a store where they can obtain it.  It brings to my mind, a man came in with crutches just got discharged from a hospital—he had a chipped bone in the ankle or so. He came in with prescription for a pain pill—the doctor said to substitute—at that time I didn't have a generic—cheaper generic—he said, “I'm in PAIN, I don't care what it is—I want my medicine—I'm not going to go from store to store." Well, I had him sign on the prescription, which is illegal, sign on the prescription, he said, "I’m in pain,” said, “I told the pharmacist to give me the brand drug"—which I did. It only cost him $2.50, how much could he have saved when the man is in pain? So, the generic law, really, isn't all what it ought to be—it has its good points and but it also has its bad points. Now there are some ah—ah—pharmacies, I don't think we have them in our county—somewhere in New York City and other cities who will use the cheapest drug and they still charge for expensive drug—that has been happening—we find that out time and time again. I'm a member of the New York State Board of Pharmacy appointed by Board of Regents. We had many many cases that come before us when we have—5%, maybe less than that, who ruin a profession like just like it’s true of any profession. There are less than 5% of the doctors are bad and 98% are good and that's true with the dentists or any profession—and it’s too bad that is true but it's happening—to be a fact way of life. But as far as the generic law—then the interpretation of the law when it was first passed, April 1st—the Board of Pharmacy interpreted the law to mean in the event we did not have the drug we can could give another, we can give the brand name. Well, Rosemary Pooler who was very consumer oriented, in fact, she is on the payroll, and a fellow by the name of Haddad who was on Assemblyman Stinegood's payroll and consumer oriented—they said, the Board of Pharmacy is trying to protect the pharmacist and not the public. So, with all of the ballyhoo they said it was not the intent of law, Assemblyman Stinegood said it was not intent so it was not written in the law right so, as long as it was not the intent—why we then interpreted that in the event we have a pharmacist does not have the generic—why then of course, they have to refuse the prescription which is a hardship on the consumer, themselves. But that is the way they want us to interpret. Now, if you have any questions on the law itself— Nettie: Michael, I think you covered pretty much about everything I asked you to. Is there something you want to add? Michael: Well, as I said I'm on the Board of Pharmacy and my term expires next June 1979. It is very interesting work and we have hearings in New York City and Buffalo—most of them are in New York City. It is very interesting—talking about three or four days a month. Incidentally, since the first of January, why we have two consumer members on the Board of Pharmacy and one of them happens to be Jim Staley, Legislature right here in Broome County and the other consumer member is a lady from down Long Island. They sit in with us, except they sit in with us on the Board of Pharmacy everything except with the Board Examination and all, which is of course they know nothing about. They, Board of Pharmacy, we do give exams for candidates, I think, this last June we had, it would be a shot in the dark, they had 800 candidates for Pharmacy. Pharmacy is now a five year course and after a pharmacy student, after third year they apply for internship and he had to have three months between his third and fourth year, three months between his fourth and fifth year at which he will be eligible to take State Board. The State Board is divided into three parts—Part 1-2-3. Part 1 is a written examination—a lot of it is multiple choice—that is made out by the State Education Department of Testing. Part 2, combination of laws and also pharmacy and pharmacology, and that is made up by members of the State Board. Part 3, practical application which you are actually in a laboratory all and it also has to deal with interaction—drug interaction, telephone prescriptions, anything pertaining to the practice, itself. Parts 1 and 2 can be taken without before you can take internship, immediately after graduation, but Part 3 you have your 6 month internship. If you pass your exam, you of course become licensed in the State of New York. Being licensed in the State of New York you, then after practicing for one year you can reciprocate with any state in the United States except Florida, Alaska, Hawaii or California—those are the four states. However, someone, like myself—I took the Florida board ten years ago—I'm licensed in the State of Florida, also by examination. Examinations are according to the candidates—seemed to be rather tough, but they're not—a lot of them pass and a lot of them don't. After all we have to—Board of Pharmacy, of course, for the protection of the health citizenship state—not for the protection of the pharmacist or for the students. Have you any other questions? Nettie: No, that's quite interesting, I think very much so. Michael, I just have one more question—I'd like to have you explain the differences in pharmacy, say 20 years ago or so and now.  Michael: Yes, it was quite different when I went into business some 42 years ago. At that time we used to make our own capsules and pills and powders. I used to make a lot of different solutions—some stores even made their own citrate magnesia—we'd make our alexo-phenobarbatal and all, and now of course we buy those in gallons—capsules and tablets in the hundreds or in thousands. We depend on manufacturers on these. At the time, of course, there weren't the number of drugs that we have now. Now we do have so many drugs and with all the new ones coming up chances of interaction is greater—what I mean of interaction is that you taking one drug and if the physician prescribes another drug why either will inhibit the action of this one drug and might in some cases cause death or bleeding. An example is coumadin, which is blood thinner—one person cannot take aspirin with coumadin because they will bleed more. There are cases on record where they have taken aspirin with coumadin where they bled to death. So, there's other interaction between various drugs that we have to know, the more drugs that we have the more naturally there is a possibility there are of interactions, that what our pharmacologists in various laboratories and various manufacturers have to contend with. When they come out with a new drug, the pharmacologists have to test it against all the drugs that are out to see whether there will be any interaction or any danger in taking the drug in conjunction with another one. Of course, the pharmacy itself is a pharmacist’s—the old drug stores, we knew it was a common meeting place where all people meet and everything and they carried all their first aid supplies in addition to lot of sundry items. Nowadays, of course, your larger pharmacies especially our chain stores they have everything, even paint, pickles and everything which, of course, I don't approve of—but we do have a lot of pharmacies that just do stick to the first aid supplies, prescriptions and over the counter items, drugs—but they do have good nice cosmetic outlets—also, good card section, good candy sections, boxed candy and all which of course goes with a neighborhood pharmacy, especially in all. So, the difference of course, in the practice of pharmacy is really changed, we counsel patients now where we did not before. Prescriptions, forty years ago, cost 35¢—you just ring it up, say goodbye, and that was it—and now the same prescription cost is $1.85 in all, but the pharmacists in most good pharmacies talk to the patient and ask them if they are taking any other drugs and warn them for example—tetracycline—you should not stay in the sun too long when you take any tetracycline, which is Achromycin—any tetracyclines. Also, penicillin should be given on an empty stomach either 1 hour before meals or 2 hours after meals—should not take any milk or any dairy product with tetracycline—least 1 or 2 hours apart and all these things—we counsel the patients and customers what to do where years ago that was never done. We’d talk to them and ask how the family is—but as far as discussing the drugs itself, why—it was not done, of course, with Labeling Act we have to label all our prescriptions now and everything is labeled and everybody knows the name of the drug that they are taking—so years ago why when we made four or five ingredients to make one preparation, one powder, why we could not label the drugs and say what was and all. That's about the difference then and now. Nettie: Thank you, Michael. Michael: You’re welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael M. Perhach Subject The topic of the resource Perhach, Michael M. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Pharmacists -- Interviews; Albany College of Pharmacy; National Association of Retail Druggists (U.S.); New York State Board of Pharmacy; Junior High Pharmacy; Binghamton Exchange Club; Binghamton Recreation Commission; Kalurah Temple; Russian Orthodox Religion Description An account of the resource Michael M. Perhach talks about being involved with the church during his youth as his father was an Archpriest in the Russian Orthodox church. He talks about the many places his family lived before moving to Binghamton.  He graduated from Albany College of Pharmacy and operated the Junior High Pharmacy in Binghamton. He speaks of his involvement in the community organizations such as the Binghamton Exchange Club, Binghamton Recreation Commission, and the Kalurah Temple.  He speaks of professional organizations he is a member of, such as, the National Association of Retail Druggists and N.Y.S. Board of Pharmacy. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 48 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Perhach, Michael M. ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 25:51 Minutes ; 6:25 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e42f4e22150aeb27d56d119ae9263248.mp3 737882d320fccabacbf91dfdff4caed7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Petras, Louise Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-07-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 23:11 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55999">Interview with Louise Petras</a> Subject LCSH Petras, Louise -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Louise Petras Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of Interview: 14 September 1978 Anna: I am Anna Caganek, dating to viewer, talking to Mrs. Louise Petras. 234 Clinton St., Binghamton, New York. Date is September 14, 1978. Louise: Louise Petras. Louise Petras. Breginsky! [sic] Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: I came up here Anna: My mother and father, yes. Louise: My father came - 1900. My sister came - 1901. And my mother came - 1903. The youngest one. And my other sister, I came - 1905. And my other sister came - 1906. Came, we livin’ on Pennsylvania - that’s near Harrisburg. I was working, it was about, it was [unintelligible] Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: I was working at Good Samaritan Hospital six months, and then I went to Buffalo to my aunt, and I was working in a hotel. When I was 16 years old, I got married…like a crazy. You write that? Then I still was working houses all the time. Was working over and over…housework. I never work in a factory. And then I came to Binghamton. My husband, he was working up here, and I was cleaning houses for everybody. For Mrs. Hamlin, I was working 14 years; Mrs. Smith; Dr. Kane, John; Dr. Kane, Paul. I did - and Dr. Gregory. I can’t think if he was living on a, on a…knick…doctor, doctor…mm, I, I can’t think of his name now. Anna: Tell me what, though, when you came to Ellis Island what they did. Louise: And then I came here from the ship. So I went to…now [unintelligible] Anna: Ellis Island. Louise: Ellis Island. And I stay there overnight. Anna: They look you over…? Louise: They looked me over. Then next morning, I went on a tra, trantor [sic] living on Pennsylvania. Anna: What was the name of the - you came, the ship? Louise: Kaiser Willhelm. I came on Kaiser Willhelm. And [laughs] [foreign], we sleep over and [foreign]. Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: And I tell you, I never see so many people in a ship. And I got lice now. I tell you. [laughs] So when, when I came to, to Lebanon, my mother first was doing my hair. Clean my hair. So I didn’t have any no more. Anna: Do you know when you got married, or where you got married? Louise: Oh, I ain’t got married ‘till - ‘cause I was 13 years old. And then I went up to Buffalo and I was working up there in a hotel, in a kitchen. Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: And then I was - I have typhoid fever. I was, eh, for 11 weeks I was sick. And I thought, “I’m gonna go.” But, I guess they didn’t want me up there. So then, you know…I have kids after kids - kids after kids. So when I moved from Buffalo to Lebanon - back to Lebanon [Pennsylvania] - I still was working. And…[foreign] I wanna say something, you know…I was working in Buffalo, housework, every place. Then I went back again to Victor, Buffalo. And I was working up there, I don’t know how many years. That was my job. And here I was, working all over the doctors. I was working, I guess, 14 - 8, 16 years after Mrs. Hamilton, and she had the drug store. But, housework. And then for John Smith’s wife, I was working housework. Dr. Kane, John, I was working housework. Dr. Paul Kane, I was working…Mrs. - Dr. Marino, I was working up there year and a half. Then I went back… Anna: And what’s the name of the…was, uh, the doctor? So I didn’t even know…? Louise: Dr. Pollmak, over two years. I was working hard, you know. I never worked in a factory because I didn’t understand factory. So I was working housework. Anna: Hm. Louise: And you know how that is when you have kids after kids. I have 14 kids. I have 11 boys and, and 2 girl - 3 girls. Now, I got two boys left and one girl. They, all of them died when they was 15…22. Then I was on a farm. I liked it in a farm up on Chenango Forks. We was up there only 10 years, and then move again, [unintelligible] Anna: Well, tell ‘em how nice the people were in those days. Louise: And that not, that time, the people was very nice. They help each other. If you need help, the people help you; if they need help, you help them. We never fight. ‘Cause they, they always was nice. Nadda, not like nadda. Anna: No. Louise: You won’t get any help now for them. And everything was cheap. So my mother paid $3.50 rent - we had five rooms. But they had water water outside - you had to carry it. I tell you: The people so nice to you. God, if you need this - if you need money, they lend you. If you need help, something like, uh…do you know how much we pay for a pound of pork chops? We pays $0.10 pound of pork chops; $0.04 a hot dogs pound; and $0.06 of beef for soup. How you like that? $0.25 for dozen eggs. The, we used to buy 100 pounds of sugar for $4.00. And 100 pounds of flour because my mother used to bake bread. Now, see how, how people was that time? How they helped each other? But now, lookit: They don’t pay any attention to nobody. I can’t understand how that’s gonna come. And I tell you this much: My grand, grandmother was 96 years when I went here. And she told us what’s gonna happen. And it’s coming! And nobody gonna wanna believe it. And it’s gonna be worse than it is. Because people don’t care; they don’t help each other like they used to do. I can understand why. There are still the kids stealing, they are killing. That’s what my great-grandmother said, that that’s what’s gonna come, and this is the year [it]’s coming. Now, believe me or not. Too bad I am not up there so I can tell you the straight how is it. But, nah. We paid, you know how much we paid for shoes? $0.50 a pair and $1.50 for the good one[s]. And $0.03 a yard for good, for make new clothes. Now, isn’t it nice up there that time? Anna: That was probably the 19…eh, the 20s and 30s. Like that. Louise: Yeah. Anna: Like, uh…19, uh… Louise: That was, that was what? Anna: 1920s? Louise: Not 30…? Yeah. Anna: 1930s…and, yeah. Louise: Yeah. That’s, that…people helped each other. Anna: 30s. And up to 19…um, uh, 40s, wasn’t it? Louise: Yeah. Everything - believe me, if you buy coat? $75.00. $75.00, or that was, was the best one. And when the hairdre- when the lady made dresses, she charge you $0.50 for dress. $0.03 for pound; $0.03 a yard, we bought. And then we had everything like that. You don’t believe that, and that’s true. It’s too bad that I can’t do it right straight, you know. To tell them what it what - what we went through. And in the summertimes, you should see the people. They was, my sister’s husband [laughs] was playing accordion and, eh, was dancing outside. Help each other, no- not like now. This is, this is awful what they’re now. [unintelligible] Yep, that’s, that’s true. That’s a, that’s a thing that I can…’course, I went a few days to school. A school home - Mrs. Lee used to teach us. And Ms. Hess come up, you know. Anna: That’s when you got your paper [proof of citizenship]? Louise: That’s when I got my paper. Anna: 1934? Louise: 1934, I guess. Yep. All the people was nice each other that time. That’s, I don’t think that never gonna happen no more. No. ‘Cause now, you’re afraid to go out. Outside. Anna: No cars then, days, so no… Louise: They didn’t have any - so much cars. There was few of them, but… Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: Boy, I tell you… Anna: How did you go, get to the farm? On the car, then? They, uh… Louise: We, we have a car; we have a truck on a farm. Anna: What did you do on the farm? Louise: We wha-farmer, and we was selling milk. And potatoes…and I took eggs: $0.25 a dozen. So…then I pick up the white…I went in a field. Pick, pick up the mushroom - the white ones, the early one. Bushels. I went up there every morning; I went up there, I came up the Main Street, and I said, “Here: Divide it. How much you want? How much you want?” Now sometimes, I made butter. When the flood hit, we didn’t have any, any place to get the milk, so…I made butter. That’s, that’s the way was my life. So…and I liked it ‘cause there was people. Anna: Everybody was happy. Louise: Everybody was happy and there was a people nice. They appreciate you when you come up there, but now? Look at now. I can understand. And believe me or not, it’s gonna be worse. You say, “I can understand.” Anna: What year did your husband die? Louise: My husband? Oh, he was, uh… Anna: He used to build houses. Louise: He used to build…my husband was a builder - he used to build, uh, houses. Stucco houses and every kind of, uh…that’s why he built, uh…up here, up on the six- Anna: Sokolovna? Louise: Huh? Anna: Sokolovna? Louise: Yeah! This, this one. Anna: Tell ‘em, tell ‘em. Louise: This, this…or… Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: Well, they’re gonna, they’re gonna have to see this up there. My husband build that. Anna: Yeah, the Sokolovna. Tell ‘em. Louise: The Sokolovna up here, yes. Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: Yes. Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: My husband was good builder and everybody likes him. Even Father Cyril, when he was fixing something in a church. But, now? They won’t pay any attention to nobody. Anna: What did you go…? What did you do? Like, did you go out for a good time in Ithaca? Louise: Oh, no. Anna: No. Louise: We didn’t go for good time. We went with somebody got married - the wedding. But, we didn’t go to dance or something like that. Anna: Vacation? Louise: No, no. Never, no- Anna: But, you were happier, though? Louise: We was happy, I don’t care. But not, not like now. You gotta be scared now when you go out. Well, this is awful - everything. Believe me or not, and it’s gonna get worse. And believe me or not because I read the Bible - all Bible and there everything said. Anna: So, don’t…? Louise: Yeah, that’s true. That’s not, I’m not lying because I never lie, and I was working at rich people - doctors, everything. I never touched nothing. Anna: What church you go to? Louise: Uh, eh…what church we went? Anna: What church you go to? St. Cyril? Louise: St. Cyril, I’ll go. And then I was living on, uh, Rotary Ave., we went down, St. Thomas. Yes. And the people was happy. Now? Gosh. I don’t think take care of street, people across street on Rotary Ave. But now, you have to be afraid to go out. That’s why I don’t go out - because I’m afraid. One thing, um, [I’m] already 86 years and 6 months - 5 months. And I can’t see very good, so I have to sit in house. That’s…so there you are. That’s my story. Too, too bad I don’t know how to write. Because I went to school - we used to have the school home, you know. Twice a week, Mrs. Lee used to teach us. Anna: And what’s, eh…when you came to this country, you were how old were you when you came to…? Louise: I was 13 years old when I came here to this country. Nyet. Then I got a job down at Good Samaritan Hospital. Anna: Hm. Well, you came from Czechoslovakia, off, it was at that time Austria-Hungary. Louise: Yeah, that was, eh…it used to belong to Franz Joseph, that time. Anna: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Louise: But I, I came up here on, uh…what was the ship I told you? Anna: Yeah, you did. Louise: So not the way…well, be better for me if I sent somebody intact. Anna: Mm-hm. Could you think of anything else? Louise: I was in a hospital…I don’t know how many. The first, I was in that old, old hospital that was on a fifth floor, and we got out first. When was that? That storm? That, that come. Anna: Oh, you mean, like the…the big storm? Louise: Yeah, storm. And that, that building went like this. Anna: Shaking. Tell ‘em. Louise: Shaking [laughs]. Yeah. I used to tell the nurse how to supposed to clean and mass- Anna: You mean the City Hospital? Louise: And massage. Anna: City Hospital? Louise: No. Down, down…at City Hospital, I, uh… Anna: Wilson Memorial…? Louise: Wilson! Yeah. But, that was the old, old…that’s a long time- Anna: Uh-huh. Louise: -because I was up there. I don’t know how long. I used to massage the woman [sic]. You know? Anna: Yeah. Louise: And there was this one nurse, she said, “What are you doing?” I said, “So what? If she asks me, and her backs hurts, why not?” I used to help how much I could, and then I got so sick. Then I, five weeks. Fi- I think five weeks. Five weeks, I didn’t even talk to nobody, I didn’t even, any…just feed me by the, the tube. ‘Cause I have…wait a minute, what I did I have? Anna: Typhoid fever? Louise: No. Anna: Scarlet fever? Louise: Something I, I do know… Anna: I thought you had one of those. Louise: I forgot already. But, uh… Anna: Typhoid, didn’t you say? Louise: The, the first one…that was on my story - oh! I have ulcers. Anna: Oh, ulcers. Mm-hm. Louise: Yeah, the first one I was up there. And I used to, used to laugh at them, you know. I said, “Do you clean? Did you call this clean?” I said, “Gee, I could clean it for a few minutes and it look awful nice.” ‘Cause I’ve brought like that when I was in Europe, when I, when my mother left me, I was eight years old. And I started work, you know? And that’s why, that’s why I’m…if I clean, I clean. If I don’t, I don’t. I’ve been bragging, but everybody likes me. Especially when I make the home noodles. [clears throat] Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: I used to make home noodles. Anna: Mmm. Louise: Up to Smiths? Boy, you should see. Anna: You ought to give me some if you’ve got ‘em so I can show the girls. Louise: You should see how they fight about it. God, I, for five eggs. I’ve, I made noodles for them. Anna: Mmm. Louise: Then I put hot butter on it? Oh, you should have seen them. No, I’m not bragging, but I tell you: Every place I was working, they likes me. Everybody, no matter who was. Yes. Anna: And that’s all? You can’t think of anything else? Louise: And that’s right, I can’t think of any-[laughs]. Anna: Are you sure? Louise: Yeah. But, don’t put me in a jail. Anna: Oh, okay. Louise: ‘Cause I don’t wanna go to jail now because there’s lots of- Anna: [chuckles] Louise: -bad guys up there. Anna: Well, you want me to stop it now? Louise: That’s okay. [foreign] Anna: [foreign] Louise: [foreign] Anna: [foreign] Louise: [foreign] Anna: Yeah, go on. Louise: 67…$67.00. 67 years old when I went for the first time for my Social Security. You know, when you get the money. Anna: So, Social Security? Louise: Social Security, something. I went in the court, and I asked the man, I said, “Are you sure this belongs to me?” I said, “I don’t wanna go jail.” And then he said, “Well, they need woman up there cook for them and clean.” I said, “Boy, if I go up there, they gonna be quiet.” [laughs] So the, two months later, they call me up. He said, “I got $280.00 for you.” I said, “No, I don’t, not want it. I don’t wanna go to jail.” And they started laughing. He said, “Don’t be afraid; that belongs to you.” ‘Cause I was 62 years, I didn’t went up there, asked, ‘till I was 57. Anna: 67. Louise: 67. So there you are. But, you know? It’s hard to talk now, this way. But, if I was with you? I, maybe I could have better one. Anna: No, that’s alright - you’ve said everything. Well, that’s it then, huh? I’ll shut it off now. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louise Petras Subject The topic of the resource Petras, Louise -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms Description An account of the resource Louise Petras talks about emigrating to the U.S. from Czechoslovakia at the age of thirteen, her work cleaning houses for a variety of people, and living on a farm in Chenango Bridge. She also discusses obtaining her citizenship papers. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 49 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Petras, Louise ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 23:11 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/05f31d951592db4ccf6479f943284720.mp3 793cde0fa5cbd7d3ad3d8a6526055461 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cole, Louie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-07-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:28 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55892">Interview with Louie Cole</a> Subject LCSH Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Louie Cole Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 25 July 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Louie Cole, Beers Road, Castle Creek in the Town of Chenango, and the date is the 25th of July, 1978. Mr. Cole, will you tell us where you were born and what year? [Pause] OK. [Pause]. Where were you born? [Pause]. OK. Louie: Well, I was born in Chenango Forks on June 12th, 1889. (Chuckles). Wanda: That's—ah, eighty... [89 years]. Louie: My—ah…father and mother, they'd…had built the house the year before, and had moved down from the farm on the hill. Wanda: So you were born right in Chenango Forks? Louie: Well…the first farm coming west out of the Forks, it was, it was really right in the village, or on the edge of the village, you know. Ummm—and my father had another farm a mile west of that—ah, where they had moved from, down there. Wanda: Well, where did you go to school? Louie: At, ah, Chenango Forks. They had a union school there, Chenango Forks Union School. The—the fire station is right where the school used to be. It was a—a four room school…up to the eleventh grade. If you wanted to high-school-graduate the last year, you have to go somewheres else. Some people, ah, I know—ah, a few went to Whitney's Point…to graduate. My brother, ah, went to Binghamton, and I guess the people from Castle Creek area here, some of 'em went to Binghamton and some of ‘em went to Whitney Point for that last year, ya know. Wanda: So you were a farmer until when? Louie: Well, I was a farmer until I was elected Highway Superintendent for—well, I guess I was elected in the election of 1928 and took office in January 1st, 1929. Wanda: Well you've seen quite a few changes, then, haven't you? Louie: (Chuckles). Oh yeah. Yeah. I couldn't begin to…name ‘em. Wanda: Well, one thing that's changed for sure is the equipment for that department, isn't it? Louie: Oh yes. Yeah. As far as equipment is concerned, ah…what we had and what we, what they have now—we didn't have anything then. (Laughs). Wanda: Hand tools, eh? Louie: We had two—we had two old Dodge trucks and one…K.R. Brockway, and they were, they both were old and were all, well, three of them were old and worn out, really. I finally…after…a few years, got, began to get some new equipment or new trucks that we could work with, ya know. And—ah, drivers not only like to take care of a new truck and use it good, where when it got old, they… It couldn't get old fast enough then. Get rid of it. Wanda: But you probably always had—ah, somebody to maintain them, didn't you? Did you do it yourself? Louie: Do with what? Wanda: Did you maintain the trucks yourself? Louie: Well, mostly, mostly. Yeah, we did, we did all that we could do with them, but the, but the grinding of the valves and if they'd have to have new rings or something like that. Of course now they never change rings in a—in a motor, but—ah, back then that was the proper thing to do after...so many years. And—ah, we didn't have the equipment to do that. Wanda: You had a, a town garage, did you...to work out of? Louie: Well, we had a town barn. Wanda: Umhmm. Where was that? Louie: Well, right...where it's located now. Wanda: In Castle Creek, huh? Louie: The town garage is, yeah. Yeah, there was...it was an old barn with a plank floor...and…and the cracks in the floor. It was colder'n as if it had been outdoors, ya know. (Laughter). Wanda: You probably didn't have any coffee machines either, did you? Louie: (Chuckles). No, that's for sure, or instant coffee, we didn't have either... hoo! Wanda: Well when you started out you had—what, how many men did you have for a crew? Louie: How many men? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: Well there was about...in the...about four regular men that we had all the while. That is...but they only worked when they—ah, when there was work. That is they wasn't—ah, in the summertime they would work right along regular, but in the wintertime, when it come fall, why, then they wasn't any work… Wanda: Until the snow came, eh? Louie: ...until, until we got—ah—some snow equipment, removal equipment, ya know. And the, ah… Wanda: You were telling me you had an old Caterpillar snow plow—way back in those times. Louie: (Chuckles). Yeah, we got, we got a, a Caterpillar tractor with a snow plow on the front with a wing on each side—all hydraulic. That was, that was s'posed to be the...latest thing goin' then. We, we was pretty proud of it. As I said, it was all hydraulic and we, we...in the summertime we used the tractor to, to haul the grader and the hoe, so we could…we'd disconnect the—ah, hydraulic system and then back the tractor right out and we could use it anywheres. That's what we was doin' one spring, 'n’ I know we had it all ready to come out, and I don't know why, but...Roy Cole was a little anxious or somethin' and he poked his head around the, the door to look just as the operator started the motor and the hydraulic oil come out and hit him right square in the face and—(Laughter). Ayuh. Wanda: A good story. You had some, some men that stayed with you, probably the— Louie: All the way through. Wanda: —many years. All the way through! Louie: All the way through. Yeah. There was...there was Roy Cole, no relation, and Nelson Ross and—ah, Earl Jones…and then there's some other men that came on in the spring of the year, ya know, and worked during the summer and, and—ah, worked right straight through during the summer. And there was Howard Strickland and—ah, Les Fuller. Wanda: Umhmm. 'Course you had a lot of mowing to do in the summer, probably, didn't ya? Louie: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did most of the...roadside mowing we did...well, I used to hire a farmer to mow what he could with his mowing machine, along the roads, you know, and then we'd come along and finish it up to the fenceline or the bank. Wanda: With scythes? Louie: With scythes, yeah. Yeah, and of course in the spring of, of the year, to begin with, we, we cleaned the ditches. We pulled all the stone and the mud and the dirt into the center of the road and—(Laughs)—then we spread it out and waited for it to dry and then we, we had a regular drag—a farmer's heavy-duty drag, spring tooth drag. We went over and broke those sods and stones ‘n’ things up, ya know, ‘n’ then we had more men working for a while in the spring. And after we done that, why, they raked the stone out to the side of the road. And then we, we'd come along with our trucks and they'd shovel those stone into the road—into, into the truck. Well years before, well, you'd see places along the road where they'd just pulled off from the road and dumped those stone right off of the side of the road, or they'd... they'd—ah, maybe some farmer wanted some in his barnyard or something like that. And—ah, well, that was all right to give them to him if he...only I thought, “My gosh, why not drive them, draw them a little farther and put them right in the road where they'd do some good altogether, instead of dumping them on the side of the road?” So that's—ah, what we did, we didn't dump any more on the side of the road after that. Wanda: You filled in the soft places, you mean, and like that? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. There was lots of… Wanda: That makes sense, doesn't it? Louie: …places where they would—'course we had to sometimes draw 'em quite a little ways, but—ah, they helped out, and the next year when it got spring, you know, and soft and bad… Wanda: Then you, did you have a steamroller or any kind of roller? Louie: Yes, we had a...we didn't use it, only on those—ah, 320A roads that we used to build. Wanda: Oh, what were they? Louie: Well, they were paid by the...we built 'em for the county. Each town, as a rule, built a mile of road, or if they could they built more, built, say, two miles or something like that, each summer. Well that, that gave more people more work, and of course it helped out the, the towns. It built a better road for the towns. We—what we did—we, we opened up the road and spread the dirt out each way, then we filled it in with field stone... We broke those field stone up, broke 'em up by hand. And—ah, then we—ah, we drew, the dirt that we scraped out of the center we generally used for the shoulder or so on, on each side. And then, we put... We'd draw some finer gravel on top of those field stone, you know, and roll 'em down good. And then we, we—ah, put a layer of crushed...ah, sometimes we had—ah, we had a crusher, too, that we crushed some of those stones for the top and—ah, we'd put those on, 'n’ then put on a coat of oil, and another, another coat of finer stone 'n’ had three, three—ah, three courses of stone on a...they were built, if the base was good—the, the big stone on the bottom—they, they made a good road. They lasted good. They, the asphalt held 'em together, tar, whatever they called it then. Wanda: There's probably still some of those stretches of road around, aren't there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Wanda: So that's how a road is built. Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: And that was funded by the state? Louie: That, that was... they were mostly, mostly built by hand—(chuckles)—you might say. Wanda: The money came from the state and the county? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. They paid the town for the equipment that—ah, we used, and they also paid the labor. Wanda: Well I'd say they got a pretty good bargain, wouldn't you? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. It was a good...it was a good deal for the, for the towns, and it was a good deal for the county and state, too, as far as that goes. Wanda: But it's no longer that way now, is it? We have our own—a separate highway department. Louie: Oh, I think that went out in the—in '33 or ’34. We had started the Brooks road up here. We'd graded it and got about...on that road we was, for base we was usin' a gravel instead of the field stone because there, there wasn't field stone left enough around that we could get, ya know. And I think we were about...we had the base about half done on the Brooks road, when the county come along and took over themselves. And since then...well, since then there's been a, let's see—ah… Yeah, since then there's been a state project, the—ah, that was similar, was similar to the 320A project, and I still, I think they still have it now. That, that's called the Donovan Act or something like that. That... the—ah, towns can work that way, but it's—ah, the requirements are, are so much higher and they have to have—well, they have to have pretty good equipment 'n’...and, and you're under state supervision and—they are, I think, I think now the state pays the whole shot. The county, I don't think, enters into it. Wanda: Yeah. But it's all taxpayer's money, isn't it? Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: Well, let's see—ah—you were telling me about some of these men that stayed with you so long and—ah— Louie: Oh yes, there was— Wanda: —I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me about any of 'em. Louie: Pardon? Wanda: I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me—any things that you remember about working with a crew like that? You must have worked well together to stay that long together. Louie: Well I don't know any, remember any specific... occasions or actions, particularly...more of 'em. They was these men that stayed with me so long. Well there's Roy Cole and Nelson Ross, 'n’ Earl Jones, 'n’ Clarence Shearer, Howard Strickland, Les Fuller 'n’ Lester Brooks 'n’... Seems as though there's another one that I...shouldn't forget. They were all, all good workers and would work regardless of whether I was there or whether I wasn't. Wanda: You said something about the wages being 35 to 40 cents an hour way back then? Louie: Ayuh. They was, they were 35 cents an hour and, and—ah, after a year or two we got it up to 40 cents. And then the Depression of '33 or '32 and '33 or something like that—ah, there was a delegation of farmers came to the town board and complained about their payin' so much to the labor, they couldn't hire anybody on the...to work on their farms. Wanda: To do the hayin', eh? Louie: We—ah, ah, we didn't lower the wages. Wanda: Ah, you told me about working with a...not with a chain gang, not for a chain gang, but with a chain gang, remember? Louie: Oh. Oh. Wanda: That was before you were— Louie: I don't know… This was a state project and...somethin' and they—ah, they brought a bunch of Negro convicts up from…somewheres in the South, and worked on the road, the old—whatcha call it? The old dug road between Chenango Forks and, and—ah, well, Itasca or Whitney Point—on that road. It run up along the Tioughnioga River. Wanda: It was dug right out of the side of the mountain, eh? Louie: They—ah, I worked there with a team of horses with a dump truck. They had a steam shovel and they'd load the…and they had some, they had a couple of trucks. The, they’d load the trucks and my wagon, and we'd drive out where they wanted the dirt and we'd dump it and the Negroes would—ah, would level it off, or maybe'd push it over the bank or widen it out or something and—ah, it was—ah... I don't remember where they, where they housed those Negroes at night. I, I don't seem to remember that. I don't know whether they had—a, a tent compound or not. I… Wanda: Probably wasn't the best of quarters, anyway. Louie: They—ah, I know the shovel operator, when he was swinging around with the bucket and he didn't pay any attention to whether there was a Negro in the way or not, he just kept right on goin', but I didn't see any Negro that got hit or anything, but— Wanda: That's a terrible thing. Louie: —it wasn't his fault that he didn't hit some of 'em. Yeah, that was, that was years before I was Superintendent. Wanda: Yeah. You were—just a real young man then, huh? Louie: Yeah. And I needed a little money and a little squanderin', spendin' money, and my father let me have the horses. Wanda: So you went back to the farm. Louie: Yeah. Wanda: You've always, always kept a farm, have you, so that— Louie: No, no, after I was, after I was elected I kept it one year 'n rented it, and then I traded it off for property in Castle Creek. And we lived, we lived there in Castle Creek until, until ’47. I bought this property here in...I don't know, ’44 or '45 or something like that, with the idea of building, ya know. In '47 we came down 'n’...and built it. Built the new house in…we built the new house in ’49 and we've been here…well... We haven't had, the wife and I only had one son. We had three children and only one survived. Wanda: You were telling me that you went to school in Chenango Forks? Louie: Yeah, I went to school at Chenango Forks. Wanda: What was the old school like? Louie: It was a, it was a union school. I don't…they don't have 'em anymore, I guess. They don't because they're all consolidated, but they...it was four rooms. They went from, went up to the eleventh grade, and if you wanted to graduate from high school you had to go to...some other school. Some went to Whitney's Point, some to Binghamton. My brother, I know, went to Binghamton. Wanda: Well, you didn't—ah, have any special education that helped you out in this job as Highway Superintendent, did you? You just… Louie: No. No. No. There was no, there was no, no school, only hard work and… Wanda: Common sense, eh? Louie: —and a little head work along with it, ayuh. No, it was, ah, I don't know of a superintendent that ever—ah, back then, anyway, that ever had any special construction knowledge. Wanda: Yeah, but you had to know a lot about engines and machinery 'n’... Louie: Well—ah, you say a lot. Yes...you had to have a lot of common sense 'n’ a little good judgement along with it. Wanda: And good health, I would think, too. Long hard hours, right? Louie: Ayuh. Long hard hours. Wanda: You remember any special problems you had from storms? From snowstorms or washouts and rain and all that? Louie: Well...just—ah—I don't remember any...real special washouts or anything. I know one year we had a terrible—it'd been hot a long time like it has this year, ya know? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: And I expected maybe we'd get a hard thundershower—gully-washers, as they call 'em—that washed, filled the ditches 'n’ washed the roads and filled the sluices, ya know. And, but that was just one of those things, it wasn't anything special. We had one one year, and in just about a week and ten days afterward, we'd just got cleaned up 'n’ we had the same thing right over again. That was a little bit discouraging. Wanda: Ohhh. Then snow, you've probably had some, some snowstorms to get through, haven't you? Louie: Oh yes, we always had snow, once in a while. I can remember one winter that—ah, I think it was '55 or '54, we were workin' over on Poplar Hill Road over there, cuttin' brush, widening it out and, and along in February, and you could work all day long without your jacket on, even. It was that...warm enough so if you were workin' a little you didn't get cold. Wanda: You were tellin' me how you, when you first, or way back after you were Superintendent of Highways, you shoveled the roads out by hand and in layers or something? Louie: Oh yes. See, where they…might be in a...a cut, or even in a...right in the open, where they'd drifted so deep that we'd have to shovel a layer off of the top and throw it over and then some men would stay up on top and the men down below would throw it up to them and they would throw it out. That was...that was back-breakin'...work. Wanda: And you had a, a shovel. You said something about having a shovel that was made of, ah— Louie: Yeah. It was a, there was a state project, ah—ah, “Get the Farmers Out of the Mud” was the, um… Wanda: That was the actual slogan? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was the, that was the slogan. So we, we had been, of course, putting gravel in the road where we, when we could and where we could, but we had to shovel it on by hand and, and dump it and work it over again by hand and, and I convinced the Board that we could...do more if we didn't have to do so much of it by hand—if we had a, a power shovel, and we got one. It had a, ah...all it was, was a farm tractor on caterpillar treads and the—ah—circle that let it swing had a boom and a, and a bucket and cables and shivs and—ah, it was a 3/4 yard—no, no, a 1/4 yard bucket. Yeah. And we could load the trucks even, even with that, with…three times as quick as you could by shoveling it on by hand, you know. And…we got, we drew a lot of gravel that fall after that. I remember we started it right in that little, that little creek down on Front Street—ah, that comes down off of the Dorman Road and goes up in the hills there off from… Wanda: Oh yes, Cooley's Falls Road? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Cooley's Falls Road, you mean? Yeah, Dorman Road. Louie: Dorman Road. Yeah. It comes down...years ago it used to be called the McKinney Hill Road. Yeah, Dorman Road. Wanda: And you dug the gravel out of there? Louie: Ayuh. Right down where the state highway is now. Ayeah. Wanda: You never had to buy gravel, did you? Louie: No. No. Not then. It wasn't...not many years before you had to. Wanda: Yeah. Do you remember what Castle Creek was like when you first came over here? Has it changed very much? Louie: Just about like it is now, only... only there was a good, good grocery store there then. They, what's the, what the fire station is now, was the school house. That was open at that time when we came over here 'n’ I think my boy went to school there the first...first year he went to school. Wanda: 'Course there weren't so many gas stations around. I thought—that was one of the first gas stations, wasn't it, on Route 11, up there at Castle Creek school—or store? Louie: Well there was two gas stations. There was one at, where the store is and there was one just down this way a little ways. And then there was another one…up above…well up above where the state...garage is now. Wanda: Oh yes. Right in the woods there, right? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Right along in the woods there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Terrell. Terrells run it. And they'd—ah, Mrs. Terrell was an awful nice lady and, and a good cook, and she had a little restaurant there too, at one time. Wanda: Well, gas stations were kinda friendly places in those days, weren't they? Louie: Yeah. Wanda: My dad had a country store with a gas station, at one time. Well, can you think of anything else you want to put on here? I hope you aren't getting tired. Louie: Oh, probably after you're gone! (Laughter). Wanda: Well if you...think of anything you want to add, you could call me up and we'll do it again. Louie: OK. (Laughs). Wanda: I want to thank you very much, Mr. Cole. You've been patient and good. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louie Cole Subject The topic of the resource Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Description An account of the resource Louie Cole talks about working on his father's farm in Chenango Forks, attending the Union School, his election to Highway Superintendent for the Town of Chenango, the practices and equipment used during that time, as well as the people he worked with, roads built and various advents of the time, such as 'Get the Farmers Out of the Mud' project and the first power shovel. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 15 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cole, Louie ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:28 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/137134ed55d700a93f9f06ef171f748a.mp3 6ca72646c329d32f82d13afcd4932890 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/4d956c0161c37f66750e6f48cb63a05c.mp3 3d403180cca00615621c6586362fc382 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/85d33821d20ae8651bb0036fde35ef0a.mp3 2822a9d7a5ef6cb03d9ccf004c940a6e https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/70a4d035ccc30f397276258c6bde9685.mp3 b3629bcb161497d458c00affb8a43cd5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Planck, Elodia de Hoyos Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-08-14 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:06 Minutes ; 4:11 Minutes ; 14:48 Minutes ; 36:19 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56002">Interview with Elodia de Hoyos Planck</a> Subject LCSH Planck, Elodia de Hoyos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees - -Interviews; Cigar industry; Nearly New Shop; China Painting; Patronesses Ladies of Charity; Mexican culture Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Elodia de Hoyos Planck Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 14 August 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Elodia de Hoyos Planck of Glenwood Road, Binghamton, NY, on August 14 ,1978. Elodia, will you please tell me about life and experiences in the community? Elodia: I came to the United States in 1931 with my parents, two brothers and sister and we came to San Antonio, Texas. We lived there three years and then a friend of my father's that lived in Endicott asked him to come here because he thought, that during the Depression, and he thought it would be better for us to be here and we, he sent a taxi, a limousine taxi after us. We started to work, my sister worked as a nurse's aide, I started to work in the cigar factory and my brother worked in the restaurant. My dad worked wherever he could, and of course, he worked for EJ for a while. I met my husband in 1933 and we got married in 1936, and since then I have been living here in Binghamton, for, since 1931. What would you like to, what else would you like to ask me, Nettie? Nettie: At this point, I would like to ask you, you say you had worked in the cigar factory, what did you do there? Elodia: I used to be spotter—they used to call them spotters. I used to spot the bad cigars and, then, throw them out and see that they were perfect. Nettie: How did that procedure go about? Elodia: They had boxes with trays on them, and each tray consisted of so many cigars, 24 cigars, and then I would see that every one was perfect and then they, of course, would send to different parts of the world, you know, United States and even out of the United States. Nettie: I mean, what would you do if you saw something wasn't just right? Elodia: I throw it away—we usually, they would sell them for as not perfect, imperfect. Nettie: All you would have to do is to spot them if they are good or bad, right? You didn't actually have to fix the cigar? Elodia: No, no. Nettie: Just have to spot them. Elodia: Just to spot them. Nettie: Where was that located? Elodia: That was on Emma Street where later on—ah—ah—Ansco took over because the cigar factory—ah—ah went out of business. Nettie: What was the name of the cigar factory? Do you remember? I asked several people and they just cannot remember the name. Elodia: I could find out for you from a friend, her father was a foreman there—I can't remember the name of it. I go back and look at my records. Nettie: Did you work there very long? Elodia: No, I think I worked there three years and then, of course, when they closed why then I went to work for EJ. Nettie: I think most people did that, didn't they?  Elodia: Yes, that was a Godsend—EJ was a very good place to work for, at those times. I worked at different jobs—stitching and different jobs. Then let me see—I was going to tell you—I went to school in Endicott—night school for a year and after that I taught myself to read and write. My mother and dad lived in Binghamton, then, of course, when I got married and lived in Binghamton, since then. Nettie: How many children did you have? Elodia: I have three children. One is in Ann Arbor and he is an engineer, and then, I have one is in Mexico City who work for—sh—someone some company who is connected with United States they sell hospital things—he's like a market researcher and my youngest son, Ernest, is an engineer—he worked for Ansco. He was laid off and now works for Universal Instrument. He has two children, also and let's see I became involved after—I became involved after my children left home. I became involved with the Ladies Patronesses—Ladies of Charity is an organization that helps the community—especially the First Ward—and we do various things like—ah—we have a store, clothing store, that we help the poor with also we give good to the needy, and we do eye exam—not examinations—but it's the—ah—we go and test the children in schools for eye defects, among other things, that's we do we help—we are associated with Catholic Charities. I was president in 1972 and then I became involved with china painting and I do that as a hobby, also, sometimes I sell it in order to get more china. I enjoy that very much. Nettie: Elodia, how did you get involved in this china painting? Elodia: Well—friend of mine asked me if I would like that. There was a teacher in Hillcrest, Mrs. Gregory of Gregory Avenue and she is 87 years old. She is one of the best in the country. I took probably between four and five years with her and she is unable to paint now but she's one of the best. Nettie: What is the procedure of your china painting? How do you go about this china painting? Elodia: OK—china painting—I get the green china—it is not the green china—I get the china from the different factories—stores, rather out of town. First, I put my pattern on with a special pencil, then proceed with painting. Some patterns you have to fire them three or four times or more and china is getting very high price now—of course, gold is very expensive, so we are trying not to paint with gold—the way they used to do years ago. It is very intricate work and of course, we like to say that we are porcelain artists not china painters—we are porcelain artists because we do it—on porcelain. I go to seminars, you know, in different places like Syracuse or wherever they are near once a year to see other teachers paint and it is a very lost art which is coming back quite rapidly, which is quite interesting. Nettie: Elodia, where was this started this art from England—the history about this? Elodia: Well, as far as I remember it was started in England in 1500s—I think it was (if you could give me a minute I can look it up). Nettie: No, we do not need to know exactly. Elodia: All right—what they used to do—they used to be very secretive about it—they didn't want anyone to know about it and they started to do china painting mostly with decal and then they would gold it or paint shadows on it and they they would gold it—and then there was one vase that Louis XV had—even when he died it was worth like $2200 and that has been—since then, of course, there had been lot of painters that have come mostly from England and France, Germany, but we are rapidly becoming one of the first in this business—Americans, we are really going strong on that. Nettie: Now, when you make your paintings, do you do this free hand or—? Elodia: I can—most of the times I do—lot of times—sometimes if I want to copy some very old pattern—I can—put some, you know, from that pattern I want. I rather have my own patterns because then it is so much easier than if I am trying to copy it—copying is much harder than doing it yourself. Nettie: When you do it yourself, it is more you, right, or it is original. Elodia: Yes, yes—authentic. I am very interested in doing lamps. I'm trying to match old lamps, painting the globes. I have had very good success with making four of them and I find that some of the colors are very hard to copy—there isn't the color as they used to be—because some of those red colors require lot of gold in them so they are very hard to fire—if you fire them to a higher degree than your cone specifies you can have a disaster—they'll melt with even 50° over it—so it is very complicated when it comes to glass. Nettie: When you are painting—are the paints made out of vegetables? Years ago they did— Elodia: No, the paints are—isn't that funny I read it when I was studying—it's gotten away from me but they are in powder form—then we have a special oil that we mix it with then we paint with oil and turpentine along. Ah—let me see what I can tell you anything else about it—painting— Nettie: Is this lady, Mrs. Gregory, originally from England? Elodia: No, Mrs. Gregory was born here, right on Gregory Ave. They had a farm there—her and husband—and let me see—she started when she was 14 years old and she's 87 years old now—so, she painted up to about two years ago when her heart—she had a heart attack but she still paints. Every once in a while—she still paints and she took lessons from—ah—ah—Mrs.—again I have to look in my notes—anyhow this woman that she took lessons from went to NY and took lessons from Mrs. Provost, her name was, she took lessons from a woman in NY—she stayed a week and it cost her $500—at that time—which was about 65 years ago, something like that. When he came to Binghamton, Mrs. Gregory took two year lessons and she is—she is just an artist—a very gifted person and could draw very good without getting any education. The same teacher had her paint—you know—whole sets of dishes, painted a whole lot of sets—now she put patterns on two of my set of dishes. One is in—the boy in Mexico City has it—he had it—now it’s for 7 er 8 place setting and of course, platters sugar, creamer, etc. He had it appraised and they offered him $8000 in Mexico. He was so proud, he wanted to insure it and but he wanted to know just what it was worth and he insured it—they told they would gladly give him $8000. So I'm very proud of that. I have three sets myself—you know, of course my other son has a set that I did for him. Nettie: Sounds interesting. Elodia: It is—and of course it is very relaxing like some people relax with crochet and others with you know, knitting, you know and I relax with china painting. Nettie: Elodia, since you came from Mexico it is always intriguing to me to ask something about the customs of Mexico. Elodia: Well, let's see we have three—uh—three kinds of people—elite, middle class and poor. Even today, they still have the same customs and I know some foreigners, some people, think we are cruel because we had maids—but we always take care of the maids—my mother never had less than three maids—of course, at the time when we were there—why they were very cheap to have—like $20 a month plus room and board—but my mother always saw that they were taught to read and write and she always gave them a day off—she clothed them—she made clothes for her whenever she could or bought clothes for her—at those days most of them were done by hand—the sewing and that’s one of the customs—they are much harder to get now because they are going to factories—but the factories are taking advantage of them because knowing they are ignorant—you know—they take advantage of them and really they are much better off being a maid in people's houses. Now, my son has a maid—she made the mistake by having a child out of wedlock but my son built a little room for her with a shower and, you know, shower and bedroom—he takes care of the child—same time she is—maid in his home. So, you know, some of the poor are alleviated that way—now you know, people go to Mexico and they say, "Oh, there is so much poverty,'' but it isn’t true because in a sense this government cannot instruct them or get through to them that they will help them if they need help. They'd rather beg than accept government help. Now in the past 20 years Mexico has progressed in education very well—the universities in Mexico are free—like universities—like the college here like SUNY and Broome—and they are free but naturally they have to still pay room and board but free tuition. Now—there still—especially in the small cities they're still ten years behind United States. Of course, we have imitated you in a lot ways because of course, your ways are better. I find Americans are very willing to help us—to help the Mexican people. One of the things—I admire about the Americans they are not selfish—they are very unselfish and well we have learned a lot from you and I think—I—we have a lot better relationships than we had years ago. Customs—let's see we still have the elite—still marry with the high class of people—sometimes for convenience, not all time—I think they're changing too—where the girls couldn't go out without a chaperone, now they could go—alone—now and they're no more lenient towards that—but we still have a lot the customs we had before—like we still wear black if someone dies for two or three months according to relative—we are very close families—we always have uncles, aunts, cousins, second cousins, third cousins—we are very close together—we keep track of each other—usually when we have gatherings, we—it’s usually just the family—because it’s so big—because we always say, “oh well, it’s the third cousin—we have got to have him.” Now let me see—Northern Mexico is very arid—very hot—the middle part which is Mexico City and up to the coast of Acapulco is very lush—then you have Yucatán and Degalt, also very arid—is very hot and lot of poverty—a lot of poverty in that region—they're trying to—you know—make life better for them—well, it takes years and years especially, the Indians, they still live in little huts, you cannot make them change because they think the hut since it is made with palm hedged roofs—why they think it is much cooler and they go through the same thing that their grandfather, their great grandfather taught them to do and they till the land with such primitive tools. You just can't change them—they just don't want to change—some do come to the city, they're miserable when they come to the city—people will say, "Gee, look at those poor things”—they're not poor—they like to be themselves—this is the way they were taught by their parents—they just don't know any other way. If they have enough to eat and a roof over their heads they don't care for anything else. Nettie: Elodia, tell me something about the social life. Elodia: Of the government or of the people? Nettie: The social life of the people. Elodia: Well we have, of course, the fiestas like you have—like the 4th of July—this comes in which is 16th of September, there. We have fireworks, we have parades, we have almost the same things that you have. Our most important time is Christmas time, of course, Easter time too. They are two special events for us. They are, Christmastime 16th to 24th, we have a custom that we go from—different families get together and we go to Mass at 6 o'clock—we have special ceremonies and then after that we have a late supper—a 12 o'clock supper—like a 12 o’clock supper—that goes on until the 24th and on the 24th we have, of course, have a big feast like we have here. Now we have trees but before we had altars because it was hard to come by. It is very religious time. Even now they have about 80% are Catholics—there is quite a few Protestants now but predominant are Catholics. We have—in the part that I come from they have a little celebration 5th of May—it is the beginning of the crops—and all the Indians or the poor people there's a group of people, just like the Knight of Columbus, they get together, dress like the Indians used to, they have a Mass—in fact my mother donated like a little grotto to the out of town so they could have their feast there—and they still dance all those dances—they are colorful—this is only for the 5th of May and they bring their bread and some of the legumes, some of their crops to be blessed by the priests. All day long they have different dances—they have like a carnival atmosphere—you know, this is very important—they have mariachis which—a mariachi is a fellow—is group of young men or men who play different tunes of Mexico—usually they are primitive dances, you know, primitive dances—primitive music. They still are going on with all that. Nettie: For social life— Elodia: We still have dances at home or in halls, always with music. They still have serenades. They still serenade their girlfriend and if they are engaged why they bring three or four musicians and they sing under the window. Then of course, is is the custom the parents ask the young man and the musicians in for chocolate or something like that. Nettie: It Is romantic! (Laughing). Elodia: It's romantic—and it's always two or three o'clock in the morning because by then they had two or three drinks and are, of course, feeling gay and romantic and sing to them. Of course, we have the bullfights. Some people think it’s very cruel—but those bulls are trained just for that—they trained them—they bring them from Spain, sometimes—they train them to be very ferocious—a man has to know what he is doing in order to defend himself from the bull—of course, it is customary to kill the bull. The meat is always sent to the prisons which if there is another— (interruption). So anyhow the custom—oh—the meat goes to the jails—which is another thing another disgrace in Mexico—the jails are bad—but in each nation something has to be bad, that is one of the things that are bad in Mexico which has been in the papers lately, you know, how bad they are but I tell you they don't have the vandalism, murders that they have here—because when they say that they—shoot them if they find them in an act of vandalism or act—like abducting somebody—or stealing or killing somebody—they kill them on the spot, they don't have a trial for them—in this way America is very lenient. I'm very sorry, it is a very bad mistake—so, we have very bad conditions in the jails but believe me they think twice before they go to jail. Before, they, you know, commit something like when they started here to rebel, all those student started to rebel in Mexico City—also they wanted to do the same thing they did here. The President said, “OK, if you do that we'll start with cannons we will not fool around—we'll start fighting right away and they did—and they killed a few of the protestors and there never was another demonstration. It isn't that Mexico has a dictatorship—yes, they had quite a few presidents, bad presidents—that is the one of the reasons why we came here—the government was corrupt—my father got into politics—that's another story but they have had a very bad governmentship—how do you say—government and we have had ups and downs, past history revolutions and all that—what is better? To be strict with the people and show we have authority or let people get away with things? Nettie: That's right. Elodia: I may be wrong but now the politicians here are not any more corrupt than in other countries—in fact, I think that they are not as corrupted as in other countries. They are doing the best they can—I find that people demand too much from the politicians—they're human beings like we are—sure, they get big salaries but on the other hand look at the risk they—taking—they are our leaders, they should be able to make more money—as they are the leaders—they take a lot responsibility—oh well, so they find this politician that politician took a little money from this or that—well, maybe they don't get enough money to represent the people like the people want to represent them—like, for instance, it takes money to be dressed the way supposed to be dressed, to live in luxurious homes—they have to live in luxurious home—they are the representatives of United States. I do think they should be—the people that have beautiful homes so that other countries will say—well look—all right, I think they should be treated equally in some instances but they also are to be treated with respect because we are the people who elected them so, they should have a certain kind of aura towards them, you know, something like, not that they are better than we are but they do have a better position because that's the way we want them to be—they have to be. Is there anything else? Nettie: Well, Elodia, I'm always interested in foods and recipes of Mexico. Elodia: In the first place, the Indians taught us to use the maize—the corn that is the staple in Mexico—they would, the kernel of the corn, they would grind, now, years ago, they used to grind by hand in a stone made for that purpose with, sort like a rolling pin but made of stone. Now, of course they have machines that grind the corn and make into dough—that dough is made into a tortilla, like a pancake, and is cooked like a pancake and from the tortilla we make, we stuff them we call it a taco because, “let's call it a bite to eat"—the tortilla can be cut into 5 or 6 or 8 pieces—could be used as like a piece of bread to eat with a meal. Now the tortilla is very essential in Mexico. The scientists have found out that Mexicans have very good teeth because the corn when is eaten does not leave a residue that is left by bread—so, that is why they think the Mexicans have good teeth. Now, beside the tortilla, like I said, we have chili which is very hot, we use them in sauces. We don't—the restaurants cook very spicy with very hot peppers but the people don't have that hot stuff—they make a sauce, of course, it is up to each individual to use it—now we have the tacos—tacos are fried, beans are fried, the meat is made into a like a stew—you put in tortilla and you then roll it—you call it a taco—also, we use that for an enchilada. The enchiladas have another procedure—we put them through with a sauce made of chili powder which is not hot—chili is made with dry peppers for that purpose and then sometime we use it as they are but it's ground to the powder—the tortillas pass through the sauce and then you put the fried onions with cheese, roll them and bake in the oven 10 minutes—you call them enchiladas. The tamales are a very long—intricate procedure—it takes a long time, it’s not complicated but takes a long time. The tamale is made into ah—right—the meat is cooked with garlic and spices and ground and then the dough is made with meat juice—broth—soup. You make it into a stiff dough and then you make it into a corn husk and then put your meat in the middle, roll it, and then you cook it—probably for one half hour because the meat has been cooked already. The masa, which is the dough, is cooked in about 20 minutes—which is called the tamale because it is cooked in the cornhusk—and it is a tradition which comes from years and years. We eat very little pastry. They do now, in Mexico City, you find the most famous bakeries in the world—they use a lot of pastries, but only at night. The Mexicans have a very good breakfast which consists of sausage, eggs, sometimes pork chops and even steak. Then the meal, main meal, between 2 and 3, they have a big meal first comes the soup, then comes rice—we fry our rice—then comes the meat, it’s either made into roasted charcoal or in the oven. After the meat comes the vegetable or the salad and we very seldom have pies or cakes—we have fruit piece for dessert, it’s plentiful there. This is 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock now at night when people come to visit you it is usually between 4 and 6 and the custom is to serve chocolate and little bit hojarasca—which is a cookie made very rich—that's what we offer them, you know, between 4-6—now the supper which we call dinner here is very light usually is a sweet roll and hot chocolate or milk or coffee—it is always 8-9 o'clock—a very light meal, of course, they have their meal at noon. That's it. The spices we use are entirely different than the Italian or Americans use. We use cilantro—which is cardamom seeds—no—I can't think of the name in English—we have cumin seeds—we use in rice or meats—we use a lot of almonds to cook with our meats which is cooked into a paste, thickened like meatballs or like in stew. The chili con carne which is so popular is not done as it is done here—probably it is Americanized. The way I was brought up I was cutting tiny little pieces of pork or beef, we fry that then of course, we cook the pinto beans which is cooked ahead of time and then when the meat is done we put the pinto beans along with chili powder, garlic & onions and then we simmer for a long time and that is our chili con carne, which is a little different than they make here. It's good here too, but I mean, but it has been changed some, but that was the original chili con carne. We use pork in our tamales—when we make our tamales—or we make like you would call a stew with green peppers and sauce of green peppers entirely—for pies and cakes there are few recipes, we use flan, quite a bit, which is like a custard only is a little bit sweeter, it’s almost like a custard, we have it at night, sometimes, when we do that. We also make, here we go again, buñuelos—it's a very thin like a pancake—put one over our knees—put on knees—proceed to pull—until it becomes very, very thin—and we fry that out—sprinkle with sugar and cinnamon. This is the custom that we usually make them at Christmas because the weather is hot—now Christmas it is cooler so we make them that time of year so we call them buñuelos. What else could I tell you about Christmas? We take a roast beef—you know—you say, “what am I going to do with a roast beef?”—so you make it into a loaf, hash, or meat patties. Our meat patties or croquettes as you call it, we use them different, we take the leftover meat, grind it—then put into—eggs with peaks—beaten egg whites with a tiny bit of flour—then we fry and using leftovers we make a sauce with tomato, garlic and onion—put sauce on top of croquettes—(meat patties leftovers with)—we always have—most of our meals are with rice, meat and beans—even on the hottest day we have soup. The soup consists of a bone with meat, throw in whole carrots, a half cabbage, cut into quarters, pear, apple, tomato and onion. We don't use garlic on soup—soup of the day—sometime—we have corn soup and cream soups—but this is our popular one. Nettie: Elodia, this sounds interesting—sounds like a cookbook. Is there anything else you want to add to this? Elodia: No, unless you want to go into custom dress— Nettie: That would be interesting to know. Elodia: I'm, all right, making too many ahs—I've got to make my thoughts together. We, every state in Mexico has different custom—costume. The custom of the whole country, whole republic, is embroidered blouse which is white, very pretty embroidery—skirt is made of green—because the flag is green, white and red and we have an eagle in the middle of our flag—usually custom of the whole country—colors are exactly like the flag on we painted by hand or embroidered by beads and very colorful—as I say, each state has their own costume—towards the Yucatán Peninsula—they have entirely different like a muumuu—not too white—like a muumuu embroidered on top, then they have a skirt embroidered with white and then they have another with lace and that is the custom of Indians—they usually, even now, they dress all the time. Now—toward the Tampico—Veracruz—which is another port is near the Gulf—they have all white made of very tiny plants—and is in layers—one after another. We have folklorico—a group of dancers—dance of every state—it's different—when it comes to New York, if anyone hears about it should see it—it's beautiful, colorful being handed down from generation to generation—it's authentic—from the primitive stage to now. The poor people of Indian people still have a custom to put their shawl around their shoulder and then cross it and they carry babies on their back. Now I can see the Americans with their carriages on their back—carriers, almost like that—child sleeps and is  comfortable because next to mommy or when carried in her stomach when they're tiny—that's only the poor people. Naturally, rich people have maids to carry babies like that in a carriage. Now we are clothes conscious—now we might not have a beautiful furniture or the house elegantly furnished—but we are careful how we dress, for instance, like in the afternoon when we go to the plaza which is a circle, its middle made of concrete. The middle of plaza there is a band concert—always a band—since we have hot days, at night we go and listen—government pays for that. Gee, I have been getting away from everything, Nettie—I have told you so much and yet I didn't accomplish as much as I wanted to—my mind goes from one thing to another thing. Nettie: You told me quite a few things. I understand you belong to a charity—sounds quite interesting. Elodia: Patroness Ladies of Charity that is a group of ladies of charity that—uh—is an association of charity of ladies of the United States. It was formed in 1960 and became one of the 43 countries in the world to have its own association. We—the Patronesses are devoted to do good for the community—right here in Binghamton. We have a store on the corner of Jeanette and Clinton St. Anybody in need of clothing can come with a letter or note from either their priest, minister or social worker. Even though we are Catholics we serve everyone that comes or anyone that come and says, "Look, I am in need of clothing," or, "I'm in need of groceries—because either my husband is sick or is not working,” and we try to help all we can. We have—we also sell clothes and other articles—with the money that we acquire from sale we put back in to buy shoes for the needy children as they start school. Sometimes, we help people in need that have no money—we help them for one week or so until they can go to their own church or social services or go to Catholic Charities to be helped. We have done this quite often—we have a Sister Genevieve who works with us—she is tremendous help—she goes to houses when she finds out they are in need of something—sometimes we pay the electric bill so the electricity is not turned off—or the gas bill or other necessities or we buy their drugs because, maybe they haven't gone through Medicare and like that for them.  Nettie: I say you have an interesting project that you are in. What was the name of the store? Elodia: Patroness Lady of Charity, Nearly New Shop, Clinton Street, 797-2033. If you have no way to come down, sometimes we can delegate someone to come after you and you can pick out clothes you need. They, also, take you home—it has to be—people who can't get there—we try not to emphasize this because so many people have a cousin, nephew or a niece who can bring them down. Now we have certain hours—we close Saturday in the summer. Other days, Tuesday and Thursday 10-3 o'clock. Now if by some reason or other you have to have clothing, as I say, you can call the shop and we'll send someone after you and we'll get you there, somehow. Nettie: That's wonderful work you're doing for the people. Well, Elodia, I must say that was a wonderful interview. Thank you very much. Elodia: You're very welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elodia de Hoyos Planck Subject The topic of the resource Planck, Elodia de Hoyos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees - -Interviews; Cigar industry; Nearly New Shop; China Painting; Patronesses Ladies of Charity; Mexican culture Description An account of the resource Elodia de Hoyos Planck talks about her birth in Mexico, arriving in the U.S. with her family and eventually arriving in Binghamton, NY. She discusses working in the cigar factory as a spotter, in the Endicott-Johnson Corporation as a stitcher, getting married and having three sons who became engineers. She speaks about her hobby of china painting, her volunteer work in the community, membership in the Patronesses Ladies of Charity and as an volunteer in this organization's store, the Nearly New Shop. She also explains customs, dress and food of the Mexican culture. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 50A ; Recording 50B ; Recording 50C ; Recording 50D Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Planck, Elodia de Hoyos ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-08-14 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:06 Minutes ; 4:11 Minutes ; 14:48 Minutes ; 36:19 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8aa1b23d7d3bdd596d3f5c460a77d70a.mp3 2a0260da93d78c3b9951300fc4d08294 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Parsons, Elsie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-08-21 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:51 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55992">Interview with Elsie Parsons</a> Subject LCSH Parsons, Elsie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; LeRayville (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Teachers -- Interviews; Funeral homes; Women -- Societies and clubs; Titus-Parsons Funeral Home Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Elsie (Atwood) Parsons Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 21 August 1978 Susan: Mrs. Parsons, could we begin this interview by having you tell us where you were born and something about your early childhood, your parents and what they did? Elsie: I was born in Le Raysville, Pennsylvania, and came to Binghamton at the age of three and at that time of course a IBM was International Time Recording where my father worked and my mother was a wife and homemaker. I had one sister. I went to the public schools of Binghamton. I graduated from Binghamton Central High School and a my last year in high school I worked at Cornell Dibbles Funeral Home just answering telephone and helping as sort of a receptionist then I went to a Potsdam State Normal School. When I came back I was hired by Dr. Daniel J. Kelly whom we all loved in the 5 & 10 to be exact well I suppose that everything had been taken care of at the board meeting naturally but that was the first announcement before the letter came to tell me that I had been hired as a kindergarten teacher in the public schools. I taught in Benjamin Franklin School and in later years I came over to teach in Horace Mann because the principal of Horace Mann School was the one I went to when I entered kindergarten and he asked Dr. Kelly if I might come and teach for him so my friends all said, “Oh no, they won't transfer you.” But somehow I found out they did so, I came over ‘cause a people thought I wouldn't want to leave a new building to come to an old building because that was before the new one was put up, Horace Mann, but a I enjoyed my life very much. I taught until—I taught half days after my first child came and then I taught a I had stopped teaching entirely when the boy came so that a I could stay home all the time and just be a housewife and help with the business here. Susan: Do you recall how much you made when you first started teaching? Elsie: I think it was $1,100 and I thought that was an awful lot of money and my parents did, really, today it doesn't sound like very much but a I think that's about what I got, that or $1200, somewhere around that neighborhood when I first started in but after three years of course I didn't marry until after the three years were up although I did meet Mr. Parsons before that time but I wanted to be sure that I had my permanent certificate for teaching so if I wanted to go back and teach and I did teach until the children came so I had quite a long career as a public school teacher in Binghamton but a my husband went in business in 1928.  Susan: ‘28. What did he do before he got into this business? Elsie: A he worked for E-J before that.  Susan: Oh did he? Elsie: Uh huh. Susan: That's interesting. Elsie: And in 1928 he went in business with a Mr. Titus and we had the Titus Parsons Funeral Home on the southside and then we bought—we moved over here to the westside of Main St. so that we were across the street at 86 Main for four or five years. Then we bought this house.  Susan: It's a beautiful home. Elsie: Yes, J. Stewart Well owned it but he wouldn't sell. We wanted to buy it sooner but he lived here all alone with just one servant which wasn't enough to properly take care of a home and he just wasn't interested in selling. We had sent people to inquire of him but he said, “What would he do with the money if he did sell?” So, we couldn't buy the house next door which was the carriage house, the white house with the red blinds at that particular time, but my husband bought it later for a friend of ours who is single and wanted a place in this area so she could be close to us. Her father was a minister and she doesn't have any close relatives so we bought the house as soon as it was make use of to a nephew. Susan: Can you recall some—some little things that you did when you were growing up that you did that was many years ago? Elsie: Yes, I agree with you. I a, well skating was what I enjoyed the most, I think. Of course I did all the other things too. But I think skating and playing tennis were my favorites when we were in high school and ice skating course I did rollerskate. Susan: What were some of the biggest changes that you saw in the community as you were growing up? Elsie: Well you mean in the buildings or the business or what? I know when we moved to this funeral home and went in business here I think a great many people besides myself we did it in all due respect we used to call Monsignor "Father" McLean and I can see even today the gorgeous arrangement of flowers that he sent when we had our opening and he was always very nice to us. And we had a girl in every room when we had the opening to tell people about the room. We'd give them a little history of the house because of course it is a—a very beautiful building and that added, I think, a great deal to our opening and the girls who did it enjoyed it and a they were always very very nice to us. We enjoyed a lovely friendship between the sons and Father McLean of course that dates back a good many years which you can't remember I'm sure but a and— I don't know, I think that I enjoyed even grade school as well as high school a lot more than people do today. It seems to me we had good times and we had more parties and things like that when we got together in groups and sororities and things like that—that we enjoyed it. Some of the youngsters today don't get quite the pleasure out of it that we did, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. They want a little extra to have what they call a good time from what people did when I was young. Susan: How many children did you have? Elsie: Two. Susan: Two. Do you want to tell us about your daughter? Elsie: Oh my daughter lives in California and her husband works for Farm Food Machines Co. He is a comptroller and she is a wife and homemaker and they have three lovely children. My son is single. He's a bachelor by choice and so I don't think he is going to give me any grandchildren, I don't know. He's in Denver, Colorado. Susan: Where did your daughter study her painting? Elsie: She studied in he local schools and then she went to college and took it up in a—oh I'm sorry—but she does do nice work, I think, I enjoy it very much. Susan: Do want to go into your activities with the local clubs here in town? Elsie: Well, I'm the past President of the Civic Club of Binghamton, an organization that of course was for many years ago and is for the interest of the community and of course I am also a past officer of Monday Club but of course Monday Club has a different object. It's more of a lecture club and I also belong to Zonta Club International and I'm active still in that and that is for businesswomen, of course, Zonta Club International, and I enjoy that very much. I belong to West Presbyterian Church and I'm active there still. Susan: You’re active in the business, which we know with all these phones ringing. Elsie: Yes, Yes I still am active in the business—stay active in that and I really enjoy it. If there is something you can do for people when they are going through three of the most difficult days of their—maybe first time they've met with death and it's very difficult to accept and if you can do something to help guide them and help them out a little bit over those three days, I think it's well worth while. Susan: There has been a lot of talk about how old fashioned we are in the way we take care of our loved ones. Do you see any a improvement of that in the foreseeable future? Elsie: Now I don't quite understand the work improvement—a you know at the time of death a one in the past has always wanted to have a funeral service and have the friends come and some people like to have their friends view the body—others like to have a closed casket, others like to have the casket open for the calling hours and closed for the funeral service which of course I think is the natural way to do things but a there is a change the younger people of today. Susan: They have—they have been cutting the hours. Elsie: That's right.  Susan: Which makes it easier on the family. Elsie: Yes, it does make it easier on the family and I notice a considerable difference because we used to have at least three sessions of calling hours and now we have not more than two and a I think that if you have a notice in the Binghamton Press and the Binghamton Sun your friends always make it a point to find time to come at the time you stated in the paper. If they really are a good friend and they want to come they make it their business to get here whenever the family sets the time so that it is easier on a family to have only two hour sessions of calling hours rather than three or four but some people particularly, Armenians and Polish people still insist on about three or four.  Susan: The old fashioned way. Elsie: Uh huh. But now some people have only one. A few people and a if there is sufficient notice in the Binghamton Press and the Sun I think that covers it very nicely for a family. Susan: Let's get on to something else. Is there anything more that you would like to a— Elsie: I haven't given it much thought a—I've told you where I've taught, of course I taught Sunday School too. Susan: Are you concerned? Are you concerned for your grandchildren that there are so many articles written about “why Johnny can't read” and “what's wrong with our school system today?” Elsie: I'm very concerned about that, yes, and I think it's going to be corrected. I think people are becoming aware of it but it has taken a long time for the general public to wake up that children have been pushed on from the second to the third, fourth, fifth and sixth grade and through high school without really properly covering the work that should be theirs to do during that period of time. I'm very concerned about it, yes. Susan: And it is sad when we have so much to work with these days than we had when you were teaching school. Elsie: Very true. Very true and there is more to cover too than there was when I was teaching a—a great deal more to cover and children should become aware of it in the early years of schooling. I formed the habit of doing things and doing them and earning their promotions—not having them just passed on which is really what has been happening and the general—I think we’re really just waking up to the fact, I think other than teachers it hasn't been very well recognized. Susan: And really the teachers haven't had too much to say about what— Elsie: That's very true, they haven't a they have been sort of promoting this let them go in the next grade. Susan: So that people in years to come will know that a lot of us haven't been satisfied with the way things have been going bu we have to go along with— Elsie: And on the college level it's too bad they are no longer held to cutting classes. It's just that they cut them there is nothing really serious happens about it. They just go when they feel like it, do as much work as they care to and sometimes even when they have four years of college they just go on for a year or two if dad and mother want to support them which is tragic really. It’s a, children should grow up to know that they're going to be responsible for themselves at a certain age. Take care of themselves that way.  Susan: Well, thank you Mrs. Parsons, it's been very nice talking with you. Elsie: Well I've enjoyed talking with you. It's been a pleasure I assure you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elsie Parsons Subject The topic of the resource Parsons, Elsie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; LeRayville (Pa.); Binghamton (N.Y.); Teachers -- Interviews; Funeral homes; Women -- Societies and clubs; Titus-Parsons Funeral Home Description An account of the resource Elsie Parsons talks about her birth in LeRayville, PA and her move to Binghamton, NY at the age of 3. She received her education at <a href="http://www.potsdam.edu/">Potsdam Normal School</a>, and was a schoolteacher for a short time. She speaks about her husband's funeral business, Titus Parsons Funeral Home. She also mentions her memberships in several civic clubs. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 47 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Parsons, Elsie ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-08-21 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:51 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7f201b9276f460e0b26f2130470879bc.mp3 839ffc5658ae6bc3b06b306f0001baa6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elwood, Ann Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-09-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:43 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55898">Interview with Ann Elwood</a> Subject LCSH Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Ann Elwood Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 8 September 1978 Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we start this interview by having you tell us where you were born and any of your recollections of your early childhood and something about your parents? Ann: I was born in Jamison, Pennsylvania, and I lived there until possibly I was, ah, five or six years of age, and my father was in ill health and was told that he must go to the Walter Reed Hospital so we moved from there to Bridgeville, Delaware, where he purchased a fruit farm. And that was, ah, operated by a couple that, ah, operate farms—ah, professional farmers—and we stayed there for three years when, ah, it was decided that he had surgery and he wished to move back to Binghamton where he'd be close to his family, as he was born in—ah, he was a Canadian and ah, and then he moved back to his father's and mother’s home in Franklin Forks, Pennsylvania, and we came back to Binghamton in April 1911, and he went in the hospital on April 2nd and had his surgery and passed away on June 25th of that year. Now his business when he was living in Pennsylvania was a lumberman and he disposed of that at the time of moving south. What else? Oh, and I—I attended the Binghamton schools, and after graduation I went to Lowell School of Business and took a business course in stenography, and they placed me with Bradstreets at the time I finished, about the time I finished my course, and Bradstreets was a mercantile agency and from there I went with, ah, the insurance firm of Steel and Powell in the Press Building and operated an Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine and took over the credits in that office. And after operating—being taught the operation of the Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine, the company wanted me to, ah, go with them and make installation of machines where they sold them in various places, which I did. I installed—err, they installed the machine in the agriculture department in Ithaca at Cornell University and I taught the operator there, and also two firms in Elmira, an automobile concern and a big agriculture business and several other places. Then my mother didn't want me to be out of town so much, so I gave that up and came back and was employed in the County Clerk's office for six years, and I also did credit work in the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company for several years before I had the opportunity to go to this NY State Senate in Albany, being the first woman from Broome County to be an employee of the Senate, and that was in 1939 and I was there for 27 years. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us something of your duties as a journal clerk in the Senate? Ann: I went to the NY State Senate in 1939 and l—ah, was given an opportunity to be chosen as a person to study and familiarize myself with the various departments to perform in case of an emergency and my, ah—the principal job that I had was assistant journal clerk. Now, the journal is composed of all the activities of the Senate from the time that the legislature convenes until it adjourns, every action and performance in the Senate Chamber is on record in the journal that pertains to the introduction and the complete procedure of each and every bill until it is passed or—or defeated, or doesn't come out of committee, so to speak. Now the—the importance of that office is to keep the journal for the Senate and it's compiled at the end of the session and is composed of many thousands of sheets. I had to edit the journal to see that all, ah, procedures were followed and that each bill that passed had the proper procedure and, ah, then the committees had to be referred to see that it was properly referred to the committees, and ah, was properly sent to the Governor for signature and then it was returned as a signed bill with a chapter number, and the chapter number had to be noted in the journal when it was signed by the Governor. The, ah—the journal clerk’s office also is responsible for the publication of all journal documents and all of the forms used, which would be over a hundred. They have to be controlled in the journal clerk’s office as to proper procedure and information and data on each form. All, ah—all nominations come from the Governor to the journal clerk’s office and are referred to the Finance Committee before going to the Senate for passage, and after passage they, ah, are signed and returned to the Secretary of State’s Office, but the governor has to submit all his nominations to us first. This, ah, procedure is, ah, very important and it applies only to the top officials of each and every department and those that the governor has the authority to appoint. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, during this time, ah, do you want to tell us about you—you met Mr. Elwood and you were married? Ann: Oh yes, I met Mr. Elwood. He was, ah—he was, ah, in World War I, and I met him and was married, and he, ah—he was a, a deputy sheriff and ah, also in fact I met him through our office. He was employed in Bradstreet when I was employed there. There is where I met him, and he passed away from a—a disease contracted during World War I. He passed away in 1941 and we had a, one daughter, Constance Elwood, who is now Mrs. Herbert J. Wilk, and ah— Susan: Her husband is the physician? Ann: Her husband is a surgeon and, ah, operating in the Binghamton hospitals, the Binghamton General Hospital and Lourdes and of course he does work at Wilson. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us now, ah, some of the interesting events that you attended or some of the important people that came into your life during this period? Ann: Well I met many important people, all of whom I just can't recall now, but some of the events that I attended, and I think I got now my invitation because of, my position up here was, I was invited to two inaugural conventions at, ah, in Washington and, ah, two inaugural balls, I mean, in Washington, and ah, I was a guest at an Electoral College, which is a very rare occasion for an outsider, but they're held when the New York Electoral College is held in Albany in the Senate Chamber under the auspices of the Secretary of State, and I had a— And when I was in Albany I also, was acted in the, ah, Red Cross in World War II. I was a member of the motor corps, and during my experiences there I made several convoys, two to Camp Dix, one conveying, ah, ten-ton trucks to Camp Dix and the other driving Jeeps, and we made two trips to Camp Devan—one conveying, ah, Packard Ambulances, and the other, Ford Ambulances, which was very interesting and something that we all enjoyed. You—you convey the vehicle to the camp and then a large bus meets you there and returns you to Albany. Ah, this work was very, ah, very interesting because it also took us to airports at night when secret airplanes were coming in with either injured soldiers or officers, transferring them from one place to another, and the Motor Corps was called on to respond with coffee and sandwiches and something for them to nourish their bodies, and ah, this was always a secret affair. We must never know only about five or ten minutes before we had to make a trip where we were going and what we were going to do, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you recall, ah, for us some of your memories of how Binghamton was in the early days? Ann: Well, when I came here we used to have streetcars and we went to the park—to Ross Park, which was the most popular playground and place in Binghamton. Every Sunday they had a band concert there and the park was filled with people. Then we used to go to Ideal Park, it was another popular place, and during the summer we belonged to the Orange Circuit, Orange County Circuit of Races, and they had horse racing there each summer, which we attended and ah, the, ah—I know we used to go by streetcar down there, and I think it cost us a nickel, no more than a dime. I know to go all the way from Binghamton down to Endicott I think it was a nickel, and the price on our streetcars were a nickel and the—and now—and then we had the YMCA, which was a popular place for the men, and I remember that vividly because our Republican Headquarters were located for many years in the old Bennett Hotel, ah, then later known as the Hotel Bingham, which was right across the street—of course those places have been dismantled now and torn down and replaced by other types of business, ah—and the Arlington, we moved from the Bingham to, ah, the Arlington, and stayed there as long as they were on top and when they decided to dissolve, why, we moved out and that building was soon destroyed. I mean dismantled and, ah—it seems I have moved around and been in all the landmarks of Binghamton through one way or another and when I went to school we, ah—our school, for a two or three years while they were finishing high school, we went to, ah, the school building in the old police headquarters at the corner of Washington and Hawley Street, and then from there to the new Central High. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go on and have you tell us some of the clubs that you belong to? Ann: Well, I belong to the Monday Afternoon Club and I'm an active member in the, ah, Zonta Club of Binghamton, of which we have now, I think, the first club in Binghamton, male or female club, that has an international officer, and we have the international president of the Zonta Club of Binghamton and we're honoring her on September 23rd, and that's ah, Evelyn Dewitt, and ah, I belong to the Republican Club, several Republican clubs, and ah, the American Legion Auxiliary. I'm a fifty-year member of the American Legion Auxiliary and also a member of the Eight and Forty and, ah, held all the offices in the Auxiliary American Legion, Post 80 Auxiliary, except the president, and I, ah, was unable to accept that because my mother had died and I had to stay home to take care of my daughter, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go back and review, ah, the part of your life where you mention you had gone to, ah, two of the inaugural balls? Who were the Presidents at that time? Ann: The President at that time was President Eisenhower—I went to his inaugural ball and also the one for Nixon, and while we're on the subject of presidential officials, I would like to say that it was my pleasure to meet Mr. Rockefeller previous to his being selected, selected as our candidate for Governor. He was chosen in the Senate while I was there as chairman of the Constitutional Convention Committee, and George Hinman brought him in during an intermission in my office so I could meet Mr. Rockefeller, and ah, I told him that I was very pleased because I—I read from the papers that he is going to be our next Governor and I also, and I did neglect to tell you that in November 1977 l was chosen as the Woman of the Year by the Status of Women Council in—in, ah, Binghamton. Susan: That's fine. You certainly have been a very active lady in this community, Mrs. Elwood. Ann: Oh! Thank you. Susan: And it's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you very much for the interview. Ann: Well, I've enjoyed this very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann Elwood Subject The topic of the resource Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Description An account of the resource Ann Elwood talks about her moves from Bridgeville, DE, to Franklin Forks, PA, and her final settlement in Binghamton, NY, in 1911. She attended the Lowell School of Business and worked in business before becoming an assistant journal clerk in the New York State Senate and working for 27 years. She also discusses living in Albany (NY) and her involvement in the Red Cross Motor Corps during World War II and several social and political clubs in the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 18 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Elwood, Ann ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-09-08 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16:43 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23842505feefe51458d3dce4f3d537d9.mp3 9079349578dde0823149fc7574b3ff10 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d40ccc2a4e5cf0143d1136749f4b477c.mp3 2c7a09830f8fdfb27e02507cd08f78b7 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/76b3edbaf863909cb6f59e259ec9cc69.mp3 6a9bf4b3e39f278bc1ba461dcd923665 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a423f2f60a67f06de5336aa1819db4c8.mp3 02418e6b9cfccb47f506f28ab133cf82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 ; Link, Marion Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-09-18 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:35 Minutes ; 33:15 Minutes ; 16:07 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55970">Interview with Edwin and Marion Link</a> Subject LCSH Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 -- Interviews; Link, Marion -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Cortland (N.Y.); Aeronautics; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974; Earhart, Amelia, 1897-1937; Link Aviation; Cortland Airport; Billy Brock; Clarence Chamberlain Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Edwin and Marion Link Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 18 September 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Edwin Link at 10 Avon Rd., Binghamton, NY. The date is the eighteenth of September, 1978. Mr. Link, we'd like to—a have you tell us some of your recollections of early aviation in Broome County, if you would. Mr. Link: All right. I first started to fly down at the old Bennett's Field off DeForest St., which isn't a field anymore. And—a I soloed in 1926 and been flying ever since. There were previous flyers here in Binghamton that might been interesting to have on record, for instance Basil Rowe, Pan-American's first pilot, flew here of of Bennett Field years ago. Another very well-known pilot that's been in this vicinity and, and recently died in Waverly was Earl Southee. They were both ahead of me and—a then there was Dick Bennett, of course, as he was pretty well-known after those two. Wanda: And he was the one the field was named for, right? Mr. Link: Ahh—Dick Bennett—a probably gave me most of my instruction though I'd had some previous instruction in California by—a Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother, back in—in 1919 and 1920, but I didn't complete it. I was just going to high school then. I didn't have enough money to continue, and besides my father forbade me to fly at that time. So… Wanda: But that was your first experience in flying—was in California? Mr. Link: Yes. Wanda: Do you remember what sort of plane you learned in? Mr. Link: Well my first plane that I flew in was the old Curtis Jenny. It was a World War I training plane and—a the second plane I was training in—I had to get it at various places and this was at Binghamton—was a Curtis Oriole. It was really a, a newly-designed Jenny. It was like it but really a new one to take place. It was designed new in 1919, that was our Curtis Oriole plane. I took some instruction in that in California also in 1919. Now what more can I say? Wanda: Well it takes a lot of imagination to—a try to think what it was like when you started flying. What was it like when you actually got into a cockpit in a plane? What did it look like? Mr. Link: Well it didn't look like much. There was only a tachometer in the cockpit. That was the only instrument we had. It tells the revolutions of the engine.  Mrs. Link: No compass? Mr. Link: Ahh—we didn't have a compass in some of 'em. Compass was a new-fangled—a idea. But—a that—an air speed and a compass were usually added. But the original planes first, only had a, they had the engine instruments—tachometer, oil gauge, oil pressure and—a oil temperature and water temperature because they were a water-cooled airplane then. And that was a out all and they were all at that time stick-controlled, not with the little wheel like most of the planes use today. Wanda: And your two foot controls...? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: ...your two foot pedals? Mr. Link: Two foot pedals. That's all they used to have—or rudder bar, actually they weren't pedals then. They had just a stick across and you could put your feet on each end of that. We called it a rudder bar—so that was all there was in an airplane in those earliest days. And then—a later when some of the other instruments were invented they were added, but it came along 19—a 30 before the other instruments, or instrument flying had even a remote start, that is, flying without vision. Mrs. Link: Well in 1930 you had to have, by that time, you had to have an altimeter and a compass. Mr. Link: I had a turn and bank indicator and that was just invented about then, the turn and bank indicator. Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer… Mr. Link: What? Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer it had those instruments in it. Mr. Link: It had a... the first trainers had the essential instruments in of the day, which was the turn and bank indicator, the compass, the air speed and a rate of climb indicator. That was all of the instruments in the first… That was considered a well-equipped instrument flying airplane. And the first trainers had those instruments in it to teach them how to use them because there was quite a lot said in the day that you...didn't need instruments to fly. Most of those pilots died shortly. They said they could fly by the feel of the airplane better. As I say, most of them didn' live very long if they did that. As a matter of fact, before I invented the trainer a man out in Wright Field—this somewhat gave me some of the ideas to invent the trainer—a Major Ocker took a seat and put it on a stool that would revolve, and then he'd blindfold the people and twist them around in this seat a few times, then ask them which way they were turning. And they invariably said the wrong way. And that was one of the things that gave me the idea that you could make a whole airplane to train a pilot to do everything. He was merely demonstrating just what I repeated: that you couldn't tell where you were going by sight or feel. You had to have an instrument that told you where you were turning and whether you were flying straight or level and so forth, that we had no natural ability like a bird, to do so. And even birds haven't, it's been proved later, 'cause they sometimes fly right into a building and things by accident or at night when they scatter. So they don't have much either. That was the way the early flying was. And then, along in the thirties came in these instruments and—a people were beginning to learn how to use them, including myself, and then I thought that—a you could build a machine that would… a trainer that would teach you, rather than going out in the air which was expensive, and slow, and you had to have the weather to do it in—that you could learn most of it on the ground, which some…which most people wouldn't buy at that time. They just thought that was silly, but—a time has proved differently. Wanda: It certainly has. Mrs. Link: It might be interesting, Ed, if you'd tell about how flying was taught back when you learned to fly, and how much longer it took, and—a how much more difficult it was. Mr. Link: Well it was taught, and of course it's still taught that way to a limited extent—but it's a very expensive way—is to get in a… Now they get into a small airplane with a pilot and—a try to fly the airplane…and fly it with the pilot until he—a takes it away from you for reasons of mistakes and so forth. And you can… They still don't know how to fly. And primary flying is learned that way. But there's very little flying, instrument flying, learned in the air nowadays, because you can't simulate the…some of the conditions of instrument flight which is done in bad weather and you've either gotta fly instruments or else. So that's why a trainer proved to be valuable—because you could fly anytime you wanted and the weather didn't have to be bad to get instrument training. It could be simulated in a trainer. That’s—a the main thing, in that I, of course, after we built the first trainer—which was built almost simultaneous to the time I was, had learned, after I'd learned to fly—'29, wasn't it? Or ’28-'29. Mrs. Link: '29. Mr. Link: And that was built at the old Endicott airport where I was flying—a commercially. Most of the money that I made flying, I used to help develop the trainer. Mrs. Link: You built the first one down in the Link Piano Company on Water St. Mr. Link: That was not an instrument-flying trainer. Mrs. Link: Oh, you're talking about the instrument trainer. Mr. Link: The first instrument, the first instrument-flying trainer we built in Endicott. The first primary-flight trainers were built in the old Link Piano Company factory on Water St., which has now been torn down. Wanda: That's gone. Mr. Link: It's interesting to note that the, that I've got one thing in common with IBM. Bundy Time Recorder Company started in the same factory that I started in—in the same building, which later turned out to be IBM, as you know. Wanda: Well you both accomplished your purpose very well, didn't you? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: You both accomplished your purpose… Mr. Link: Yeah. We were both, we both started in the same building anyway, which is interesting. Mrs. Link: You know, it's the fiftieth anniversary next year of the Link instrument trainer and—a they will be celebrating next year. Wanda: Good. Good. That's good to know. You had a sign, a plane that carried a sign for night flying, didn't you? Mr. Link: Yes, I had several planes that—the main thing in the early thirties was to try to make a living to eat, because that was the time of the big crash of money and everything. So—a there wasn't any jobs of any other type and I was—the only thing I knew, other than piano and organ building which I'd learned in my father's factory, which was down there on Water St., was—a flying an airplane. So I—a used an airplane to earn a living with because that was one thing you could still—a sell, was rides in an airplane, what we called barnstorming in those days—go around to small towns in various places and fly over the town at about fifty feet and get everybody out. And then they'd come out to the field and then you'd sell 'em rides in the airplane. Most of 'em were…just cow pastures, ordinary cow pastures and—a… Wanda: So you'd get your crowd that way and then… Mr. Link: ...started that way, yes. Then the sign that Marion was speaking of—I thought there, there was coming along things that—a needed advertising. Advertising, there were still companies trying to sell products like Enna Jettick shoes, Dunn-McCarthy, and I sold them a… Mrs. Link: Spaulding Bread and Utica Beer—Utica Club Beer— Mr. Link: ...and so I constructed a sign that had—a what you'd call universal letters under the wings on an airplane. And I used a roll like a piano roll to—we'd call it a programmer nowadays, but we just called it a, a roll—that would form the different letters under the wings of the airplane and say, "Drink Utica Club Beer," or, "Enna Jettick Shoes are the most comfortable," and various things like that, short messages. Then I would fly it over town at night and earn better rates of pay than I could get riding a student around all the time. I put the students in the trainers and I took to the air, to teach them. Mrs. Link: Well in those days they didn't have lighted airports and—a they had to put out these little pots along the runways that they put on areas of the road, you know, when there's a hole? Mr. Link: Just open-flame pots, to mark it. Mrs. Link: And that was all they had to take off and land. Mr. Link: Well they were called cow pastures, practically, and you couldn't call Bennett Field more than a cow pasture. You couldn't call the old Endicott Airport—a, which is now built up completely with houses—previous to the field that they have there now—more than a, a cow pasture either. 'Course Broome County Airport wasn't built. Tri-Cities Airport wasn't built and Binghamton Airport—which is still in existence—is out in Chenango Bridge and that was actually a cow pasture. It belonged to a farmer by the name of Haskell. Mrs. Link: Wanda took some flying lessons there, she said. Mr. Link: Did you? Wanda: Yes. Mr. Link: Oh, from the Johnson brothers? Wanda: The Johnson boys, yes. Mr. Link: From the Johnson brothers, did you? Wanda: Yes. Mrs. Link: She said she lives just in back of Pete and Mildred Dougherty, out there. Mr. Link: Oh. Oh. Well, we lived there, too, for a little while on the river bank, but our house floated away one time. Wanda: Is that a fact? In the '35 flood, or the ’36? Mrs. Link: Yes. Let's see...well we lived there in '31. That's the first year we were married and Ed was flying out of there. And—a, but the flood came after this, we weren't living there when the flood came. Wanda: Oh, fortunate for you. Mrs. Link: But it was a little cottage there on the Haskell farm that was on the river bank—lovely spot. And Ed had his—a, used to take up parachute jumpers there on that field and they'd put on the night shows. Wanda: Well they had some marvelous air shows around here in that age, didn't, weren't there? Big—a… Mrs. Link: They did a lot of things. Mr. Link: Well, air shows were always an idea to make a little money flying, when you could get a crowd out, but Marion made more money selling hot dogs than I did flying airplanes…to the crowd. Mrs. Link: That was when we were up in Cortland. Ed was renting the Cortland airport, after they closed the Endicott one. Wanda: Well there were a number of small airfields around here, weren't there? Wasn't there one at Conklin when... people first started really getting— Mr. Link: Oh, they were, they were, you couldn't call them an airport. They were really just cow pastures that they chased the cows off from. Mrs. Link: Little strips, landing strips. Mr. Link: But—a they were used as airports. We called them an airport. Wanda: I suppose any place that you could sell gas from you could use. Mr. Link: Yeah. Yeah, it was just a question of having it big enough to take off from. Those old airplanes didn't need very much room because there weren't airports. Aircraft were made to take off in short, small spaces. And of course they wouldn't go very fast either. If you had an airplane that went…80 or 90 mile an hour, that was quite a fast airplane. Wanda: Well it must have been interesting taking cross-country flights in those times, too—when you first started out. Mr. Link: Well there wasn't very much cross-country done for passenger work. There was a—start of the first airline in Binghamton was called the Martz Airline and they were, they started, it was by the Martz Bus people that started it. And they were flying from Bufflo to New York in an eight passenger airplane. And—a they were really the first airline there in New York. Mrs. Link: Did they have to have intermediate stops? Did they stop here? Mr. Link: Oh yeah, they stopped at Elmira, Corning, and… Mrs. Link: I don't remember that, even. Mr. Link: Oh—it was before your day, I guess. Mrs. Link: Oh—they really had an airline going that far back? Mr. Link: Yeah...it was ticked as an airline. Mrs. Link: That would have been in the twenties. Wanda: Do you remember what kind of planes they were? Mr. Link: Well, they were Bellanca, the same type that—a Clarence Chamberlain and Ruth Elder tried to fly across the ocean in. They were—when they didn't have…full of gasoline, you could carry eight passengers for a couple hundred miles before you had to get gas again. Wanda: No overnight flights, I don't suppose, either. Mr. Link: Oh no. No night flying at all 'cause there were no lighted fields. And then the government, to help these—there were a number of 'em started all over the United States—to help them find their way at night, to start at night, put in a system of beacon lights in between airports. So that's all you had to guide you from one airport or another, was a beacon light every twenty miles. If you couldn't see 'em you couldn't get there. So it was all...visual flying…with these beacon lights. So that's early aviation in Broome County. Wanda: What—a, what about this—a Endicott Aero Club? Mr. Link: Well it was the… Wanda: Was that the first such thing around here? Mr. Link: It was the first aero club formed in Broome County, which I was a member of and—a it was just a group of people that were interested in flying and probably a good share of the Aero Club was made up of my students that were...and it was just like any other club. It was because they were interested in flying. They'd meet once a month or something like that—what we would call “hangar fly.” They would talk things over, their flying and so forth. Wanda: And that field was across from where the Enjoie Country Club was? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: Was that across from where Enjoie Country Club is now? Somewhere down in there? Mr. Link: Well the original Endicott Airport was right across from the golf club there. It's built up now with houses. It was along the railroad tracks there. That was the...there were only two fields. The first two fields was that field and the Bennett Airport field—a down by DeForest St. Then a man by the name of Rowe started the, what he called the Binghamton Airport, and that was at Chenango Bridge. And later—while I flew out of all of them extensively, 'cause we were right around here for one reason or the other—later I based at the Binghamton Airport and then after that I based at the Endicott Airport, the original one, not the present one, and continued the work of developing the trainer there. I'd use my students, sorta, as guinea pigs on the trainer. Wanda: Was that part of your flying—a lesson? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: Was the use of the trainer part of your course in flying? Mr. Link: Yes. Yes. Actually one of the reasons I was so interested in teaching flying was because I felt that I, it was a good proving ground more to learn how to build a trainer, than teach, because I could teach them on the ground and then I took 'em up in the air and found out what they didn't learn and then maybe improve the trainer to take its place, make it better. Wanda: Iron out the problems that way. Mr. Link. Uh huh. Mrs. Link: Well Ed had the whole school set-up and the whole course, including solo, for $85. Wanda: Amazing! Mrs. Link: And it was $35 for the ground school and the trainer. Mr. Link: And $50… Mrs. Link: And then when they had suffcient training time and he felt they were qualified to go in the air, then the other fifty dollars applied to the air time until they soloed. And it didn't make any difference how many hours it took them. $85 covered the whole thing, through solo. Mr. Link: I'd guarantee to teach them to fly for $85 then. If they didn't, I'd refund their money. That's the deal I put on. Mrs. Link: And he had one class a week at night in, in ground school, and they had to pass that before they qualified to go in the air. Mr. Link: And I used the trainer in the class to, to find out. The reason I didn't have very many refunds is, I discovered when they cou—that they weren't able to fly in the trainer, so I'd kick them out of the school, I'd flunk 'em out. So if I hadn't… Mrs. Link: Well, they were pretty, most of them qualified, though. It took a different… Mr. Link: Well most any normal person can qualify to fly. It isn't… Mrs. Link: —it might have taken them a longer time. Mr. Link: —walking or riding a bicycle or driving an automobile. Wanda: I think that's true. Mr. Link: Sometimes we'd have—a people that are a little mixed up and they can't drive a car either. So, if they drove a car pretty well they could learn to fly an airplane. Wanda: That's a wise way to do it. Umm... What else do we have down here? Mr. Link: Is your recording machine working all right? Wanda: Seems to be going. Mr. Link: Let's don't do a lot of talking if it isn't. Wanda: No. It's doing fine. I just wondered if there's anything you could think of that I didn't have down here on the, on the list. Mr. Link: Well, let's see what you have here. Wanda: Mrs. Link, you were part of this, all through the career—his flying career? Mrs. Link: Well actually I met Edwin, I came to Binghamton in 1929. That was the year that the trainer was first completed. And—a, and I met him soon after that. We were married in 1931, and as he said, it was during the Depression years, so we, I worked with him all through those years. And I took care of the office work, and the typing and the, all the background things. [Telephone rings.] Excuse me. Mr. Link: She learned to fly also. Wanda: And she learned to fly? Mr. Link: Yes. At that time, she learned to fly up there. Wanda: She mentioned that she does the, the navigating, or did the navigating quite often for you. Mr. Link: Yes. 'Course we didn't have regular air maps as they have—then. We just had an ordinary map, where now they have air maps, you know. Wanda: You mean you, when you first started, you used like a road map? Mr. Link: That's all. Yeah. [He is called to the telephone.] Trainer I mentioned is the Jenny. That's the JN-4. That was the World War I training plane. And then I flew a Sikorsky wing Jenny, which Igor Sikorsky—the inventor of the helicopter—decided that to make a training plane he could put a more modern wing on the, on the airplane. And so I flew that some. And then I flew OX-4 Waco, which was a biplane of early days. And then I flew the OX-10 Waco, which was a newer one that was brought out in about '35, considered a very wonderful airplane. It was…quite a laugh when you think of it now, but it was a biplane. And then I bought the Number'Cessna, the first Cessna that Cessna ever built that was eligible, that he could sell. He'd built a...couple of haywire models before, but this was the first one that was ever built that he, that would really...was engineered through. Number 1. Mrs. Link: I said I thought it was one of the very first cabin-type monoplanes. Mr. Link: Cantilever? Mrs. Link: Ca—cabin-type. Mr. Link: It wasn't the first, no. Mrs. Link: One of the first then. Mr. Link: One of the early, first. Mrs. Link: And a monoplane. Mr. Link: But it was Number One Cessna that—a flew, other than, you might say he built some rough, crude models of airplanes before that, but this was the first one that was really—of his airplanes—that was a complete airplane. And—a of course the Cessna company has been a very successful company and they've built thousands and thousands of airplanes since then. I went out in Wichita with Dick Bennett, who was flying here at Bennett Field, and we flew it back to Binghamton. Wanda: Oh...that must have been an adventure. Mr. Link: That was quite a long trip in those days. And—a then I had the OX—Travel—the OX is the old war-type motor that they used at that time mostly—Travelaire, and then later I got a Sieman's Halske, which was a German motor. We didn't build a suitable motor in this country at that time. Wanda: What was the name of that? Mr. Link: Sieman's Halske, it's the German electric… Mrs. Link: H-a-l-s-k-e, S-i-e-m-a-n. Mr. Link: Well there were no small engines built in this country at that time for us, suitable for us. Wanda: Is that a fact? Mr. Link: So we had, my Number'Cessna had an Anzani, which was a French engine, in it. And the OX5, it was an American-built engine, but it was built during the war, and it was not a modern engine as of...that day. Mrs. Link: You said, when you were talking about the OX10 and you said 1935, you meant 1925, didn't you? Didn't you say there were two OXes? Mr. Link: Well the Waco-9, OX5 engine, Waco-9 was built in about '25. And then afterwards Waco brought out a later model, which they called the OX10. Mrs. Link: Mmm, but that was in the '20's, not in the '30's, wasn't it? Mr. Link: In the late '20's, that was, yes. Wanda: Well, how about this old Ford Tri-motor that you had? Mr. Link: Then I had various other—I can show you a picture of it back here. Mrs. Link: You had an Eaglet and you had a Curtis Pusher. Mr. Link: Had—a various other planes, all kinds of planes in between. Wanda: That Curtis Pusher, was it open, open cockpit? Mr. Link: That was what they called the Curtis Jr. Mrs. Link: Yes. Mr. Link: Wacos, Travelaires— Mrs. Link: —Stinsons. Mr. Link: Swallows, Stinsons. Those were all early airplanes that I owned at one time and flew or—owned several because I was running a flying service then, and a school and I had—a more than one airplane. Wanda: Now this Tin Goose that you owned, it, what was that used for? Passengers, mail? Mr. Link: Passengers, yes and then I put a sky sign underneath it. Wanda: Oh, that was one of 'em. Mr. Link: One of 'em that I put the sign under. I'm trying to [leafing through a book on the Johnson Flying Service] Johnson book—82, I guess it is. I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service, that's how I happen to be looking up one, and then somebody got a picture of it in… Wanda: And it's still being flown? Mr. Link: So far as I know it's still being flown. The account of the Johnson Flying Service is here in this book. Wanda: Must have quite a few hours on it. Well, this was one of the first… Mr. Link: Here it is right here. Wanda: ...passenger planes as such, wasn't it? Oh, my. [looking at the photo in the book] Mrs. Link: Yes, for its size. The Tri-motor was a very unusual airplane. Mr. Link: Afterwards I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service. I carried thousands of passengers in that plane. Wanda: And where did you… Mr. Link: It carried eighteen people, if you wanted it—sixteen to eighteen. We could crib a little bit and carry eighteen. Wanda: Well, where did you fly that, out of Binghamton? Mr. Link: Out of Binghamton, yes. And then I flew it, I barnstormed it around the country, too, taking it… They were a very high performance airplane. We call them STOL airplanes now, an airplane of that type, but—short take-off and landing airplane. They were sort of redesigned then. Mrs. Link: And people got a real thrill out of flying in one of those big tri-motors. Mr. Link: That was the biggest airplane of its day, the—a Tri-motor Ford. That was considered a huge airplane. It was an all metal airplane, too, one of the first. Wanda: Oh, it was? Mr. Link: Yes, one of the first. Wanda: Did you have a regular route that you took passengers on? Mr. Link: No, I didn't carry passengers then. Later I, because… Mrs. Link: You had a pilot, too, that did a lot of the flying. Mr. Link: I had a pilot working for me then. I had a whole flying service, too. I had four or five airplanes, including the Tri-motor Ford. Then I had mechanics working for me rebuilding aircraft and keeping my airplane up, or our airplanes up. I probably had as many as ten or twelve people, total, out in, in—a…that was at Tri-Cities Airport. Wanda: Oh yes. Mr. Link: The building's still there that—a I used. Mrs. Link: That was after Cortland, that was after Cortland, wasn't it? Wanda: You operated out of Cortland for quite a while, didn't you, too? Mr. Link: Yeah, well they had, I was in at the Tri-Cities first. It wasn't Tri-Cities called then. It was called Endicott Airport. In a little wooden building, and that's the place where the houses are all built up now. And then because Cortland built a better airport and they had a, a hangar that you could even put a Tri-Ci, or a Tri-motor Ford in, I went there because I needed the hangar and I didn't have the money to build one. I built— Mrs. Link: Oh, Edwin, remember the... that was when George F. decided he didn't want an airport there any longer, in Endicott. Mr. Link: Well, we… Mrs. Link: That's a good story for these Binghamton records. Mr. Link: Well, what—we were flying there and George F. didn't believe in flying. Wanda: Is that a fact! Mr. Link: And George F. was—word was law around here at the time. But—a Charlie Johnson and—a— Mrs. Link: George W. Mr. Link: —George W. Johnson both liked to fly and they would—a usually sneak down in the, to the airport in the morning and fly with me. They were always good for an airplane ride and I was, I needed the money and they'd take a flight with me. And then George F. heard about this and he says, "You're not, my sons aren't going to fly and you're not going to fly out of Endicott—our field. I'm going to close it down." And I went to see Mr. Johnson to, I said, "Well, one of the difficulties is I've got about ten or twelve men working out there and if you close the field down it puts me out of business and it puts about ten or twelve people out of business." And I said, "There is a possibility I could move to Cortland but,” I said, “that's going to cost me—a some money, five or six hundred dollars that I don't have and can't afford to bear it.” He says, "How much is it gonna cost you?" And I said, "Five hundred dollars." And he sat down and wrote me a check and gave me five hundred dollars to move. Wanda: Oh, that's rare! Mrs. Link: So then in the years— Mr. Link: So I went to Cortland. Mrs. Link: In the intervening years while he was in Cortland, then the Tri-Cities Airport got its start, because the other flying that was occurring in this area had to have a place to go, too. And—a so they finally started the other airport. Wanda: Well, but he didn't actually close the field, did he? Mrs. Link: Yes. Wanda: He really did. Mr. Link: Yes he did—it's never been flown off since. Later they built the Tri-Cities, the village built the Tri-Cities Airport, but the field originally was his...property. Wanda: Oh, I see. Mr. Link: It was right alongside of the road across from the golf club. Oh yes, he closed the field and it's never opened, it's always been closed. But then later, they built the field—a the Tri-Cities Airport which is there now, but the original field— Wanda: Well, it's probably just as well, this would have been… Mr. Link: —but the original field, usually Chambers of Commerce pay people to come to town, but this, this time I was paid to get out of town. And I took most of my employees with me. Mrs. Link: Well in Cortland, in Cortland they got a real start for the—a trainer, with the Army and all. And then when he came back here, the airport had been built down there at Tri-Cities, so he had a place to come to. And—a then he started manufacturing the trainer here because the war years were about to start, you know, and there was a lot of interest in training, training airplanes at that time. But not with the United States so much. It started in Japan and in Russia and in other outside countries. And it wasn't until after we got back here and settled on Gaines St. that they— Mr. Link: Well the first six… Mrs. Link: —started to have an interest in—a… Wanda: That's where the first factory was for the trainer? Mrs. Link: Mmm, Gaines St. Wanda: Gaines St. You had a number of moves, too, didn't you? Mrs. Link: Mmhmm. Wanda: As the business expanded? Mr. Link: Yes. And of course, we kept growing and we outgrew our buildings almost before we could move in. Mrs. Link: There while we were on Gaines St., that flood of—was that 1936? I guess it was. Wanda: The big one? Yes. Mrs. Link: Yeah, that wiped us out there again. Mr. Link: And fire, with it. Mrs. Link: And what? Mr. Link: And a fire occurred in it. That whole block burned up there. Mrs. Link: So then we moved over to—a, what's the name of that—a? Mr. Link: Montgomery St. Mrs. Link: Montgomery St. Over there on, in back of the highway. Mr. Link: And that was a big building for us then, but we outgrew that in a short time. Then we went up to Hillcrest, which was, had been the old Larrabee-Deyo Truck place, originally built by Nestle's during the war. Then Larrabee-Deyo took over the building, and then later we took it over and we still own it. We still build trainers there. But we have another factory, of course, in—a, up at—a Mrs. Link: Conklin area. Mr. Link: And another one in England, too. Wanda: Mrs. Link said—a, while you were out, that you might have something to say about some of the old pilots that came around here, a—landed around in these airports and that you knew. Mr. Link: Well, of course I being the principal aviator around this area at the time, any new people that came to—a town, I would meet and all, and some of them were well-known people of the day. Clarence Chamberlain was one of the first to fly the Atlantic; Billy Brock who was the first one to fly around the world in a land plane; and—a I also met Lindbergh at that time, when he landed down here in Choconut. And there were numerous other of those. Wanda: He was forced down, wasn't he? Mr. Link: What? Wanda: He was forced down? Mr. Link: Yeah—bad weather. He landed in a field down here, like we always did in those days. And he couldn't get his airplane started the next morning to get out, he and Major Lanphier. So I flew down with Dick Bennett to help him get it started, which we did. They got started eventually and left. There's a picture of, of that was in the paper with Lindbergh and myself. Wanda: Yes. Mr. Link: There’s also one over in the gallery of—a— Mrs. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin. Mr. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin, downstairs there they’ve got one someplace. Mrs. Link: I also mentioned the women pilots, Ruth Elder and Amelia Earhart. Mr. Link: Ruth Law was one of, was one of the first pilots here, and she came here before I was flying. And it must have been... oh, I can’t say, around 19—a ‘16, ‘18, and landed out here on what was Kilmer’s place there, then, the horse-training track. And she was one of the first pilots to—a ever fly out of Binghamton. [Tape'ends.] [Tape 2] Mr. Link: They put up a prize for the first airplane to fly from New York to Chicago, or Chicago to New York, I forget which way, and she flew an old Curtis Pusher there, where you sat out in front. There wasn’t any cockpit around it, but she and Lincoln Beachey were the first two pilots—Lincoln Beachey was the first one I know about. A—Ruth Law would be the second and then after that came Basil Rowe and those that I’ve ment—already mentioned, Earl Southee, you know. There was also Catherine Stinson. She landed someplace out in Chenango, not Chenango Bridge, but Hillcrest. And she cracked up three times tryin’ to, or while she was here—was here about two months rebuilding the airplane and then she’d crack it up again. Wanda: Typical woman driver, right? Mr. Link: Well it was the airplane’s fault, I think. She was pretty good to fly it. Mrs. Link: What about Amelia Earhart? You came up from Washington, she came up with you, didn’t she? Mr. Link: Yes. Amelia Earhart was just, recently had learned to fly and she was, wanted to learn to fly instruments. And I had one of the early instrument-equipped planes. I was down in Washington and some way or other I got connected, I don’t know, and she flew from… Mrs. Link: I was thinking that it was—a, that it was Captain Weems. That she was down there getting some navigation instruction. Mr. Link: No, that was another woman. I don’t remember just how I got connected there, but I was flying from Washington to New York City and she wanted to go up, and I said, “Well, come ahead and get in and I'll show you what l know about instrument pilots and instrument planes, what you need.” And so she did. And then she went out later, to Paul Mantz out on the west coast who—in the meantime these trainers were taking hold and people were buying trainers—and took instrument flying time to fly the instruments, from Paul Mantz in a Link trainer, to start with. Wanda: Oh. So she originally had her instrument training from the… Mr. Link: Well, I didn't, I couldn't exactly say I taught her anything about instrument flying, but I did show her how it was done. Wanda: Yeah. What—a, what was she like? Mr. Link: She was a very nice person. I was well-impressed with her. She was one of the most retiring of the women aviators. Others that came along afterwards, they were somewhat—a— Mrs. Link: Careful. Mr. Link: —noisier and so forth. Like there was this woman that… Mrs. Link: Never mind. Mr. Link: OK. Let's get off the women pilots. But I didn't have too much respect for most women pilots, at the time. Wanda: Well, they were… Mr. Link: But I did Amelia Earhart. She was a very nice woman, very modest, very quiet and very able. Wanda: I always got the impression that she really loved flying. Mr. Link: And she really loved flying, yeah. Wanda: What was it fascinated you about flying? Do you remember your first incident with an airplane? Do you remember the first time you saw one, or… Mr. Link: Well the first time I flew was out in California. I was out there—a and I flew and then started taking lessons with Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother. Then I couldn't continue that because I didn't have money to and my family stopped me, when they heard about it, but I—a always enjoyed flying. I felt there was a future in it. Wanda: And you were right. Mr. Link: At that time there were no airlines, no—hardly anything for flying schools except something like Charlie [sic] Chaplin. He established it out there where the Ambassador Hotel is now, in California. Wanda: Is that right? Mr. Link: And—a the movie actors and actresses had more money than anybody else and they were a little more interested in learning to fly, so he started an aviation school out there. And that was the first flying lessons I took, was in 1920, but it was 1926 before I really got into flying and seriously went through it and soloed an airplane. Wanda: Well, can you think of anything else you'd like to put on here for… Mr. Link: I don't think of anything. Wanda: I think I've taken up quite a bit of your time. Mr. Link: And that was a long time ago. Mrs. Link: You've got a lot of—record there. Wanda: Yes, and I certainly want to thank you for all of your time and our recollections, both of you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Edwin and Marion Link Subject The topic of the resource Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 -- Interviews; Link, Marion -- Interview; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Cortland (N.Y.); Aeronautics; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974; Earhart, Amelia, 1897-1937; Link Aviation; Cortland Airport; Billy Brock; Clarence Chamberlain Description An account of the resource Edwin Link talks about pilots in Binghamton before and during the time when he learned to fly, flight instruction under Sidney Chaplin and Dick Bennet. He details the beginnings of instrument flying, his invention and development of the instrument-flight trainer, and the invention and use of the sky sign.. He talks about night flying, early years of aviation, the beginning of airlines in the 1920s, and the many airplanes he has flown over his lifetime. He also discusses his reasoning for initially  basing himself at the Cortland Airport and recounts stories of male and female pilots who came to work in the area, including Billy Brock, Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 41A ; Recording 41B ; Recording 41C ; Recording 41D Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981 ; Link, Marion ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-09-18 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 0:35 Minutes ; 33:15 Minutes ; 16:07 Minutes