8 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/05f31d951592db4ccf6479f943284720.mp3 793cde0fa5cbd7d3ad3d8a6526055461 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cole, Louie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-07-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:28 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55892">Interview with Louie Cole</a> Subject LCSH Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Louie Cole Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 25 July 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Louie Cole, Beers Road, Castle Creek in the Town of Chenango, and the date is the 25th of July, 1978. Mr. Cole, will you tell us where you were born and what year? [Pause] OK. [Pause]. Where were you born? [Pause]. OK. Louie: Well, I was born in Chenango Forks on June 12th, 1889. (Chuckles). Wanda: That's—ah, eighty... [89 years]. Louie: My—ah…father and mother, they'd…had built the house the year before, and had moved down from the farm on the hill. Wanda: So you were born right in Chenango Forks? Louie: Well…the first farm coming west out of the Forks, it was, it was really right in the village, or on the edge of the village, you know. Ummm—and my father had another farm a mile west of that—ah, where they had moved from, down there. Wanda: Well, where did you go to school? Louie: At, ah, Chenango Forks. They had a union school there, Chenango Forks Union School. The—the fire station is right where the school used to be. It was a—a four room school…up to the eleventh grade. If you wanted to high-school-graduate the last year, you have to go somewheres else. Some people, ah, I know—ah, a few went to Whitney's Point…to graduate. My brother, ah, went to Binghamton, and I guess the people from Castle Creek area here, some of 'em went to Binghamton and some of ‘em went to Whitney Point for that last year, ya know. Wanda: So you were a farmer until when? Louie: Well, I was a farmer until I was elected Highway Superintendent for—well, I guess I was elected in the election of 1928 and took office in January 1st, 1929. Wanda: Well you've seen quite a few changes, then, haven't you? Louie: (Chuckles). Oh yeah. Yeah. I couldn't begin to…name ‘em. Wanda: Well, one thing that's changed for sure is the equipment for that department, isn't it? Louie: Oh yes. Yeah. As far as equipment is concerned, ah…what we had and what we, what they have now—we didn't have anything then. (Laughs). Wanda: Hand tools, eh? Louie: We had two—we had two old Dodge trucks and one…K.R. Brockway, and they were, they both were old and were all, well, three of them were old and worn out, really. I finally…after…a few years, got, began to get some new equipment or new trucks that we could work with, ya know. And—ah, drivers not only like to take care of a new truck and use it good, where when it got old, they… It couldn't get old fast enough then. Get rid of it. Wanda: But you probably always had—ah, somebody to maintain them, didn't you? Did you do it yourself? Louie: Do with what? Wanda: Did you maintain the trucks yourself? Louie: Well, mostly, mostly. Yeah, we did, we did all that we could do with them, but the, but the grinding of the valves and if they'd have to have new rings or something like that. Of course now they never change rings in a—in a motor, but—ah, back then that was the proper thing to do after...so many years. And—ah, we didn't have the equipment to do that. Wanda: You had a, a town garage, did you...to work out of? Louie: Well, we had a town barn. Wanda: Umhmm. Where was that? Louie: Well, right...where it's located now. Wanda: In Castle Creek, huh? Louie: The town garage is, yeah. Yeah, there was...it was an old barn with a plank floor...and…and the cracks in the floor. It was colder'n as if it had been outdoors, ya know. (Laughter). Wanda: You probably didn't have any coffee machines either, did you? Louie: (Chuckles). No, that's for sure, or instant coffee, we didn't have either... hoo! Wanda: Well when you started out you had—what, how many men did you have for a crew? Louie: How many men? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: Well there was about...in the...about four regular men that we had all the while. That is...but they only worked when they—ah, when there was work. That is they wasn't—ah, in the summertime they would work right along regular, but in the wintertime, when it come fall, why, then they wasn't any work… Wanda: Until the snow came, eh? Louie: ...until, until we got—ah—some snow equipment, removal equipment, ya know. And the, ah… Wanda: You were telling me you had an old Caterpillar snow plow—way back in those times. Louie: (Chuckles). Yeah, we got, we got a, a Caterpillar tractor with a snow plow on the front with a wing on each side—all hydraulic. That was, that was s'posed to be the...latest thing goin' then. We, we was pretty proud of it. As I said, it was all hydraulic and we, we...in the summertime we used the tractor to, to haul the grader and the hoe, so we could…we'd disconnect the—ah, hydraulic system and then back the tractor right out and we could use it anywheres. That's what we was doin' one spring, 'n’ I know we had it all ready to come out, and I don't know why, but...Roy Cole was a little anxious or somethin' and he poked his head around the, the door to look just as the operator started the motor and the hydraulic oil come out and hit him right square in the face and—(Laughter). Ayuh. Wanda: A good story. You had some, some men that stayed with you, probably the— Louie: All the way through. Wanda: —many years. All the way through! Louie: All the way through. Yeah. There was...there was Roy Cole, no relation, and Nelson Ross and—ah, Earl Jones…and then there's some other men that came on in the spring of the year, ya know, and worked during the summer and, and—ah, worked right straight through during the summer. And there was Howard Strickland and—ah, Les Fuller. Wanda: Umhmm. 'Course you had a lot of mowing to do in the summer, probably, didn't ya? Louie: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did most of the...roadside mowing we did...well, I used to hire a farmer to mow what he could with his mowing machine, along the roads, you know, and then we'd come along and finish it up to the fenceline or the bank. Wanda: With scythes? Louie: With scythes, yeah. Yeah, and of course in the spring of, of the year, to begin with, we, we cleaned the ditches. We pulled all the stone and the mud and the dirt into the center of the road and—(Laughs)—then we spread it out and waited for it to dry and then we, we had a regular drag—a farmer's heavy-duty drag, spring tooth drag. We went over and broke those sods and stones ‘n’ things up, ya know, ‘n’ then we had more men working for a while in the spring. And after we done that, why, they raked the stone out to the side of the road. And then we, we'd come along with our trucks and they'd shovel those stone into the road—into, into the truck. Well years before, well, you'd see places along the road where they'd just pulled off from the road and dumped those stone right off of the side of the road, or they'd... they'd—ah, maybe some farmer wanted some in his barnyard or something like that. And—ah, well, that was all right to give them to him if he...only I thought, “My gosh, why not drive them, draw them a little farther and put them right in the road where they'd do some good altogether, instead of dumping them on the side of the road?” So that's—ah, what we did, we didn't dump any more on the side of the road after that. Wanda: You filled in the soft places, you mean, and like that? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. There was lots of… Wanda: That makes sense, doesn't it? Louie: …places where they would—'course we had to sometimes draw 'em quite a little ways, but—ah, they helped out, and the next year when it got spring, you know, and soft and bad… Wanda: Then you, did you have a steamroller or any kind of roller? Louie: Yes, we had a...we didn't use it, only on those—ah, 320A roads that we used to build. Wanda: Oh, what were they? Louie: Well, they were paid by the...we built 'em for the county. Each town, as a rule, built a mile of road, or if they could they built more, built, say, two miles or something like that, each summer. Well that, that gave more people more work, and of course it helped out the, the towns. It built a better road for the towns. We—what we did—we, we opened up the road and spread the dirt out each way, then we filled it in with field stone... We broke those field stone up, broke 'em up by hand. And—ah, then we—ah, we drew, the dirt that we scraped out of the center we generally used for the shoulder or so on, on each side. And then, we put... We'd draw some finer gravel on top of those field stone, you know, and roll 'em down good. And then we, we—ah, put a layer of crushed...ah, sometimes we had—ah, we had a crusher, too, that we crushed some of those stones for the top and—ah, we'd put those on, 'n’ then put on a coat of oil, and another, another coat of finer stone 'n’ had three, three—ah, three courses of stone on a...they were built, if the base was good—the, the big stone on the bottom—they, they made a good road. They lasted good. They, the asphalt held 'em together, tar, whatever they called it then. Wanda: There's probably still some of those stretches of road around, aren't there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Wanda: So that's how a road is built. Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: And that was funded by the state? Louie: That, that was... they were mostly, mostly built by hand—(chuckles)—you might say. Wanda: The money came from the state and the county? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. They paid the town for the equipment that—ah, we used, and they also paid the labor. Wanda: Well I'd say they got a pretty good bargain, wouldn't you? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. It was a good...it was a good deal for the, for the towns, and it was a good deal for the county and state, too, as far as that goes. Wanda: But it's no longer that way now, is it? We have our own—a separate highway department. Louie: Oh, I think that went out in the—in '33 or ’34. We had started the Brooks road up here. We'd graded it and got about...on that road we was, for base we was usin' a gravel instead of the field stone because there, there wasn't field stone left enough around that we could get, ya know. And I think we were about...we had the base about half done on the Brooks road, when the county come along and took over themselves. And since then...well, since then there's been a, let's see—ah… Yeah, since then there's been a state project, the—ah, that was similar, was similar to the 320A project, and I still, I think they still have it now. That, that's called the Donovan Act or something like that. That... the—ah, towns can work that way, but it's—ah, the requirements are, are so much higher and they have to have—well, they have to have pretty good equipment 'n’...and, and you're under state supervision and—they are, I think, I think now the state pays the whole shot. The county, I don't think, enters into it. Wanda: Yeah. But it's all taxpayer's money, isn't it? Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: Well, let's see—ah—you were telling me about some of these men that stayed with you so long and—ah— Louie: Oh yes, there was— Wanda: —I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me about any of 'em. Louie: Pardon? Wanda: I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me—any things that you remember about working with a crew like that? You must have worked well together to stay that long together. Louie: Well I don't know any, remember any specific... occasions or actions, particularly...more of 'em. They was these men that stayed with me so long. Well there's Roy Cole and Nelson Ross, 'n’ Earl Jones, 'n’ Clarence Shearer, Howard Strickland, Les Fuller 'n’ Lester Brooks 'n’... Seems as though there's another one that I...shouldn't forget. They were all, all good workers and would work regardless of whether I was there or whether I wasn't. Wanda: You said something about the wages being 35 to 40 cents an hour way back then? Louie: Ayuh. They was, they were 35 cents an hour and, and—ah, after a year or two we got it up to 40 cents. And then the Depression of '33 or '32 and '33 or something like that—ah, there was a delegation of farmers came to the town board and complained about their payin' so much to the labor, they couldn't hire anybody on the...to work on their farms. Wanda: To do the hayin', eh? Louie: We—ah, ah, we didn't lower the wages. Wanda: Ah, you told me about working with a...not with a chain gang, not for a chain gang, but with a chain gang, remember? Louie: Oh. Oh. Wanda: That was before you were— Louie: I don't know… This was a state project and...somethin' and they—ah, they brought a bunch of Negro convicts up from…somewheres in the South, and worked on the road, the old—whatcha call it? The old dug road between Chenango Forks and, and—ah, well, Itasca or Whitney Point—on that road. It run up along the Tioughnioga River. Wanda: It was dug right out of the side of the mountain, eh? Louie: They—ah, I worked there with a team of horses with a dump truck. They had a steam shovel and they'd load the…and they had some, they had a couple of trucks. The, they’d load the trucks and my wagon, and we'd drive out where they wanted the dirt and we'd dump it and the Negroes would—ah, would level it off, or maybe'd push it over the bank or widen it out or something and—ah, it was—ah... I don't remember where they, where they housed those Negroes at night. I, I don't seem to remember that. I don't know whether they had—a, a tent compound or not. I… Wanda: Probably wasn't the best of quarters, anyway. Louie: They—ah, I know the shovel operator, when he was swinging around with the bucket and he didn't pay any attention to whether there was a Negro in the way or not, he just kept right on goin', but I didn't see any Negro that got hit or anything, but— Wanda: That's a terrible thing. Louie: —it wasn't his fault that he didn't hit some of 'em. Yeah, that was, that was years before I was Superintendent. Wanda: Yeah. You were—just a real young man then, huh? Louie: Yeah. And I needed a little money and a little squanderin', spendin' money, and my father let me have the horses. Wanda: So you went back to the farm. Louie: Yeah. Wanda: You've always, always kept a farm, have you, so that— Louie: No, no, after I was, after I was elected I kept it one year 'n rented it, and then I traded it off for property in Castle Creek. And we lived, we lived there in Castle Creek until, until ’47. I bought this property here in...I don't know, ’44 or '45 or something like that, with the idea of building, ya know. In '47 we came down 'n’...and built it. Built the new house in…we built the new house in ’49 and we've been here…well... We haven't had, the wife and I only had one son. We had three children and only one survived. Wanda: You were telling me that you went to school in Chenango Forks? Louie: Yeah, I went to school at Chenango Forks. Wanda: What was the old school like? Louie: It was a, it was a union school. I don't…they don't have 'em anymore, I guess. They don't because they're all consolidated, but they...it was four rooms. They went from, went up to the eleventh grade, and if you wanted to graduate from high school you had to go to...some other school. Some went to Whitney's Point, some to Binghamton. My brother, I know, went to Binghamton. Wanda: Well, you didn't—ah, have any special education that helped you out in this job as Highway Superintendent, did you? You just… Louie: No. No. No. There was no, there was no, no school, only hard work and… Wanda: Common sense, eh? Louie: —and a little head work along with it, ayuh. No, it was, ah, I don't know of a superintendent that ever—ah, back then, anyway, that ever had any special construction knowledge. Wanda: Yeah, but you had to know a lot about engines and machinery 'n’... Louie: Well—ah, you say a lot. Yes...you had to have a lot of common sense 'n’ a little good judgement along with it. Wanda: And good health, I would think, too. Long hard hours, right? Louie: Ayuh. Long hard hours. Wanda: You remember any special problems you had from storms? From snowstorms or washouts and rain and all that? Louie: Well...just—ah—I don't remember any...real special washouts or anything. I know one year we had a terrible—it'd been hot a long time like it has this year, ya know? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: And I expected maybe we'd get a hard thundershower—gully-washers, as they call 'em—that washed, filled the ditches 'n’ washed the roads and filled the sluices, ya know. And, but that was just one of those things, it wasn't anything special. We had one one year, and in just about a week and ten days afterward, we'd just got cleaned up 'n’ we had the same thing right over again. That was a little bit discouraging. Wanda: Ohhh. Then snow, you've probably had some, some snowstorms to get through, haven't you? Louie: Oh yes, we always had snow, once in a while. I can remember one winter that—ah, I think it was '55 or '54, we were workin' over on Poplar Hill Road over there, cuttin' brush, widening it out and, and along in February, and you could work all day long without your jacket on, even. It was that...warm enough so if you were workin' a little you didn't get cold. Wanda: You were tellin' me how you, when you first, or way back after you were Superintendent of Highways, you shoveled the roads out by hand and in layers or something? Louie: Oh yes. See, where they…might be in a...a cut, or even in a...right in the open, where they'd drifted so deep that we'd have to shovel a layer off of the top and throw it over and then some men would stay up on top and the men down below would throw it up to them and they would throw it out. That was...that was back-breakin'...work. Wanda: And you had a, a shovel. You said something about having a shovel that was made of, ah— Louie: Yeah. It was a, there was a state project, ah—ah, “Get the Farmers Out of the Mud” was the, um… Wanda: That was the actual slogan? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was the, that was the slogan. So we, we had been, of course, putting gravel in the road where we, when we could and where we could, but we had to shovel it on by hand and, and dump it and work it over again by hand and, and I convinced the Board that we could...do more if we didn't have to do so much of it by hand—if we had a, a power shovel, and we got one. It had a, ah...all it was, was a farm tractor on caterpillar treads and the—ah—circle that let it swing had a boom and a, and a bucket and cables and shivs and—ah, it was a 3/4 yard—no, no, a 1/4 yard bucket. Yeah. And we could load the trucks even, even with that, with…three times as quick as you could by shoveling it on by hand, you know. And…we got, we drew a lot of gravel that fall after that. I remember we started it right in that little, that little creek down on Front Street—ah, that comes down off of the Dorman Road and goes up in the hills there off from… Wanda: Oh yes, Cooley's Falls Road? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Cooley's Falls Road, you mean? Yeah, Dorman Road. Louie: Dorman Road. Yeah. It comes down...years ago it used to be called the McKinney Hill Road. Yeah, Dorman Road. Wanda: And you dug the gravel out of there? Louie: Ayuh. Right down where the state highway is now. Ayeah. Wanda: You never had to buy gravel, did you? Louie: No. No. Not then. It wasn't...not many years before you had to. Wanda: Yeah. Do you remember what Castle Creek was like when you first came over here? Has it changed very much? Louie: Just about like it is now, only... only there was a good, good grocery store there then. They, what's the, what the fire station is now, was the school house. That was open at that time when we came over here 'n’ I think my boy went to school there the first...first year he went to school. Wanda: 'Course there weren't so many gas stations around. I thought—that was one of the first gas stations, wasn't it, on Route 11, up there at Castle Creek school—or store? Louie: Well there was two gas stations. There was one at, where the store is and there was one just down this way a little ways. And then there was another one…up above…well up above where the state...garage is now. Wanda: Oh yes. Right in the woods there, right? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Right along in the woods there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Terrell. Terrells run it. And they'd—ah, Mrs. Terrell was an awful nice lady and, and a good cook, and she had a little restaurant there too, at one time. Wanda: Well, gas stations were kinda friendly places in those days, weren't they? Louie: Yeah. Wanda: My dad had a country store with a gas station, at one time. Well, can you think of anything else you want to put on here? I hope you aren't getting tired. Louie: Oh, probably after you're gone! (Laughter). Wanda: Well if you...think of anything you want to add, you could call me up and we'll do it again. Louie: OK. (Laughs). Wanda: I want to thank you very much, Mr. Cole. You've been patient and good. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louie Cole Subject The topic of the resource Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Description An account of the resource Louie Cole talks about working on his father's farm in Chenango Forks, attending the Union School, his election to Highway Superintendent for the Town of Chenango, the practices and equipment used during that time, as well as the people he worked with, roads built and various advents of the time, such as 'Get the Farmers Out of the Mud' project and the first power shovel. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 15 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cole, Louie ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:28 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/68ca261648012e137edee964a29fc592.mp3 d4e17097acdb1f856103c9a8ef657a17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed DiVittorio, Angelo Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-11-28 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 14:58 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56955">Interview with Angelo DiVittorio</a> Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Angelo DiVittorio Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 28 November 1977 Dan: OK, Ang, to start out this interview, would you give me the date you immigrated to this country and the reason why you came? Ang: I arrive in New York April 29, 1921, the reason to better myself than I was in Italy. Dan: OK, and ah, you stopped at Ellis Island before you entered the country? Ang: Yes, and from there went right to Rochester, New York. Dan: OK, and what happened at Ellis Island? Ang: Well, it seems the doctor thought I was sick and he wouldn’t let me out. Finally my cousin who was with me could speak English, and he talked the doctor into letting me out because my brother would take care of me in the event I was sick, which I wasn't. Dan: OK, and you couldn’t speak any English? Ang: Not a word. Dan: Now what reason was it for you to come? Did you have a relative in the country? Ang: Yes, I had my brother in Rochester, NY. Dan: Your brother in Rochester. Ang: My father was also there. Dan: Oh, your father was also here. Ang: Yes. Dan: OK, so you went to Rochester, and then what did you do there? Ang: Well I was barbering—I took up barbering in Italy so I continued barbering—then one day I had a chance to come to Endicott, NY. Somebody asked me to come. I said, “Yeah.” I figured, make a little change, and I came to Endicott NY, then from Endicott, NY— Dan: OK, then you went to Endicott. Who did you work for there? Ang: I worked for James D'Adamo. Dan: James D’Adamo. In what year was that? Ang: 1922. Dan: 1922, OK. So you were only up to Rochester about a year before you came here? Ang: Just about a year. Dan: OK, now how many chairs were in that barbershop? Ang: Three. Dan: Three—OK, now at that time it was 1922. What was the price of haircuts then? Ang: 50¢. Dan: 50¢. Ang: At the better shops. Dan: At the better shops, yeah. What were they at the poorer shops? Ang: 35. Dan: 35. OK, now you worked for another gentleman who owns the shop, and haircuts were 50¢—did you work on a commission basis? Ang: Yes, 70%, I was getting 70%. Dan: You were getting 70% of the 50¢. OK, during that time were there any notables in anything whose hair you cut? Ang: Oh yes, George F. Johnson, all the time. Dan: You cut George F. Johnson's hair? Ang: All the time. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yeah, he was my customer. Dan: He was your customer, yeah—so in other words, you more or less established your own clientele there? Ang: Oh yes. Dan: Now how long were you there in Endicott? Ang: Oh, up to 1944. Dan: 1944. Ang: When I moved to Binghamton. Dan: Then you moved to Binghamton, and in Binghamton you went to work for who? Ang: I went to work for Mr. Ferrante, better known as G.G. Dan: G.G. Is that capital G capital G? Ang: Yes. Dan: OK, and how long did you work for him? Ang: I worked for him from 1944. Dan: Up until the time you retired? Ang: Up ’til the time I retired, yes. No, I worked for somebody else after that. Ah, I just can't remember what year G.G. sold out, ’cause he died and then I start working for Frank Battaglia, Frank's Barber Shop. Then from there went to work for Joe Trovalli—he's the last guy I worked for on Court Street. Dan: Oh, he was the last one you worked for. Ang: Yes. Dan: Oh, I thought maybe it was Frank. Ang: No, no, Trovalli was the last one I worked for. Dan: Now were the shops unionized, Ang? Ang: Ah, some was and some wasn't, but last one, no. But when I worked for Frank's Barber Shop it was. Dan: Frank was unionized. Ang: Yes. Dan: Yeah. Ang: But Joe Trovalli was never unionized. Dan: Now do you recall now, you retired when you were 62, is that right? Ang: 65. Dan: Oh, you were 65. Ang: Ah, 65. Dan: Did you notice at that time a decline in business due to the advent of the long hair and the full beards? Ang: Very very much. Dan: Very very much, huh? Ang: Matter of fact, a lot of the shops were closing because of that. Dan: Yeah, so in other words you got out just in time. Ang: Just in time—I have this little place here, a few old patients, customers. Dan: In other words, you built up your own clientele here in Binghamton. Ang: That’s right. Dan: That’s good. OK, now at the time you came to Binghamton, which was in 1922, or came to Endicott, rather, were there any tobacco factories in existence at that time? Ang: Yes, there was one in Johnson City. Dan: One in Johnson City—do you know anything at all about it? Ang: I didn't know nothing about it. The only thing I know, they were making cigars there. Dan: That’s the only thing. You don't know or remember where in Johnson City. Ang: Someplace on Main Street. Dan: Someplace on Main Street, OK. Ang: And off of Main someplace. Dan: All right, now when you came to Binghamton, your church affiliation was...? Ang: St. Mary’s the Assumption. Dan: St. Mary’s Assumption on Court and— Ang: Hawley and— Dan: —Hawley and Fayette Streets. Ang: Hawley and Fayette Streets. Dan: Right, and the pastor was? Ang: Father Pellegrini. Dan: He was the founder, I believe. Ang: He was the founder of that church. Dan: And some years later they merged with St. Mary’s on Court Street. Ang: Prior to that he left for Italy. Dan: He left for Italy? Ang: Father Pellegrini died there—then some years later they merged with the Irish church up there. Dan: Do you know anything about the Committee of Concern at all—how that came into being? Ang: Well I guess there was a bunch of fellows that thought they should have an Italian church built at the old place, but they blamed Father Conway—he wasn't to blame. Dan: In other words, they wanted their own national church—is that it? Is that the reason for it? Ang: Yeah, that’s it. Dan: That was the reason for it, yeah. How did you happen to have George F. Johnson as a customer? Was that right from the beginning in Endicott? Ang: Yeah, right from the beginning because we were already on Washington Ave., which was the Main Street in Endicott, and on his way to work he used to come by there, park his car diagonally there. If I call him in he'd come in—otherwise, if I say no, he kept right on going, see. Dan: In other words, you had to call him to come in? Ang: No, but you see if he didn't want to wait there very long, see. Dan: Oh, I see. Ang: If I call him it means— Dan: It means that you had a chair open. Ang: That’s right, or I be, I be ready in a few minutes—didn't want to wait too long. And then when he gets sick I used to go shave him home, cut his hair and all. Dan: Oh is that right? Where or how often did you do that? Ang: Well, whenever he call me, whenever. Dan: Oh, whenever he got sick he called you. You went right to the house and cut his hair. Ang: Right in his bathroom was all mirrors, all the way around the room. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yep. Dan: Any of the other Johnsons? Ang: Yes, George W. and his son Frank used to be my customers and once in a while, I don't recall the other Johnson—he used to be in a different kind of business. But anyway, the other brother, once in a while he used to come in, I don't recall, some kind of business up on North Street there. Dan: Yeah, yeah, how about the IBM? Anybody from the IBM? Did you know Tom Watson at all? Ang: I work on Tom Watson Jr. Dan: Oh, you worked on Tom Watson Jr.? Ang: I cut his hair and a few of the big boys over there like Don Ross and so many I can't think of them, but I work on a lot of those boys. Dan: Of course in those days they had facials too. Ang: Yeah, some days, yeah. Dan: How were tips in those days? Ang: Not too good. Dan: Not too good. Ang: Not too good in those days. Dan: In other words, if a haircut was 50¢, why, then the tip would be what? A nickel or a dime? Ang: Or nothing. Dan: Or nothing—George F. must have given you something. Ang: Oh, he always tipped—always. Dan: And you charged the same if you went to the house to cut his hair? Ang: Ah, no, we used to charge more, I forget how much—at the house we charge more. Dan: So you retired in 1965 and you have been working out of your home here? Ang: Yes. Dan: Ah, anything else you can tell me at all, Ang, about any notables whose hair you cut? Anything about the barbershops in the old, which are different than they are today, of course, outside of the fact that you've got just hairstylists today? Ang: That’s all, that’s all there is—the barbers are just broke. Dan: They're just going broke. Back in Italy you learned your trade? Ang: Yes, I started when I was nine years old. Dan: Nine years old. Ang: Nine years old. Dan: And learning it or— Ang: And learning. Dan: Like did you go to school? Ang: No, go right in the barbershop over there—it’s different. Dan: Sort of like an apprenticeship? Ang: That’s right, for three months I did nothing but leather faces. Dan: Leather faces. Ang: After three months I started giving haircuts and shaves. Dan: Is that right? Ang: Yeah. Dan: Where did you get the customers to practice on? Ang: Well, see, during the summertime over there, was so hot, everybody got their hair cut off, see, so I used to practice on first and then I would just clip them right off. Didn't make any different. Dan: Yeah. Ang: As far as shave, it came easy. Dan: Yeah, OK, now the barbershops, now, are operated under the Health Department—the NY State Health Department? Ang: Yes. Dan: And it had to be registered every year, or is it biennial registration? Ang: Every two years. Dan: Every two years. Ang: Every two years, had to have a license. Dan: Biennial, yeah, and did you have to take any exam when you came over here? Ang: No, no, I didn't. See, when the license bill came out, all the barbers who could prove they were barbers didn’t have to take exam. Dan: And how would they prove that? By just— Ang: Well, just tell them where they worked for year and that’s it—but those that didn’t, then they had to take a test. Dan: Then they had to take a test, I see. So in other words, it was either serving an apprenticeship for a year and being approved by the State or else you had to take a test, right? Ang: Well, you serve an apprenticeship for eighteen months. Dan: Oh, eighteen months. Ang: Then after they take a test. Dan: I see. Ang: If you're OK to go barbering, they let you go—otherwise you go to school again. Dan: In other words, this gentleman who owned the barbershop in Endicott, it was up to him to approve you as an accredited barber, is that it? Ang: That I was there over a year. Dan: For over a year. Ang: That’s all you needed. Dan: And then he said you were all right and then you got your license—and how about today? Is it about the same? Ang: About the same, yeah. Before you get through, I want to say something. Dan: Go ahead, Ang. Ang: This will be the last. It seems though, a lot of IBM salesmen came from all over the world, see, and one of these fellows was from Italy and he had a partner, roommate by the name of Smitty, see, and all the time Smitty was kidding him, trying to kid him, but he couldn't kid him—he was so smart, see—so one day they both came in the shop for a haircut, see, and Smitty, he was trying to kid him by calling him “Dago,” “Ginny,” all that, and this Italian fellow, he just laughed at him, see, and ah, so this Italian fellow says to me, “Io lo porto a passeggio,” which is a term we don't use in Italy, and Smitty asked me, “What did he say?” So I said, “Just a minute,” and I have to translate it in English, and I started to laugh, and I laughed and I laughed. He says, “What you laughing at?” “He says he's taking you for a ride.” He says, “And how he is.” He says, “I been trying to kid him since I been here, but,” he says, “I always get burned up instead of him.” Dan: That’s a good story, Ang. Ang: Yeah, very good. Dan: You didn't speak any English at all when you came over, did you? Ang: No, nothing. Dan: Did you have to pick it up as you went along? Ang: I went to school, night school, Rochester, for a year, yeah. School #9, Joseph Fallon, Rochester, NY. Dan: You know, it seems to be, quite a few of the barbershops that were around during the days they were flourishing seemed to have been run by Italians. Was that a very popular trade in Italy at that time? Ang: I guess they had most, a lot of Italians took the trade. Like for instance me, and my father was a bricklayer or a stone mason by trade, but I was very ill when, during the First World War, had malaria, flu and typhoid fever, so was too weak to learn his trade, so he had me learn the barber business. Dan: So you served in the First World War? Ang: No I didn't, I was too young when I got sick. Dan: Oh, I see. Ang: Then they had the flu, I also had typhoid and flu, typhoid and malaria. Dan: What part of Italy did you come from? Ang: Sicily. Dan: Sicily. Well, Ang, I guess that’s about it. Ang: OK, Danny. Dan: Thank you very much. Ang: Glad to oblige. Subject LCSH DiVittorio, Angelo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Barbers -- Interviews; Rochester (N.Y.); Endicott (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y); Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Religion Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Angelo DiVittorio Subject The topic of the resource DiVittorio, Angelo -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Barbers -- Interviews; Rochester (N.Y.); Endicott (N.Y.); Binghamton (N.Y); Johnson, George F. (George Francis), 1857-1948; Religion Description An account of the resource Angelo DiVittorio talks about emigrating from Italy and working as a barber in Rochester and Endicott, NY. He discusses working for 22 years in Endicott before moving to Binghamton to work until retirement and that George F. Johnson was a customer. He also speaks about his faith and religious figures in Binghamton and the changing pace of his business. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 16 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource DiVittorio, Angelo ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-11-28 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 14:58 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/f04a3c037b9a1fcc64928250a5bf6d5c.mp3 f57006a2d1a4f7c72e676727626b46cb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dryja, Walter Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1977-11-22 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 32:49 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55895">Interview with Walter Dryja</a> Subject LCSH Dryja, Walter -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Dairy farmers -- Interviews; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Coal mines and mining; Milk Delivery; Polish Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Walter Dryja Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 22 November 1977 Anna: I am Anna Caganek: the interviewer, talking to Walter Dryja of 22 Arthur Street, Binghamton, New York, on November 22, 1977. Walter, tell me about your life. Walter: This is the biography of Walter Dryja, who was brought into this world the ninth day of December many moons ago by my dear mother, Sophie, and father, John Dryja, to this address: 525 Washington Ave, Glendale, Carnegie, PA. My father and mother came from the part of Poland that was occupied by Austria-Hungary, ruled at the time by Franz Josef. My mother had three girls and four boys, that was the size of my family. I was the youngest. My father came alone to Baltimore, Maryland, in the first part of the 19th century [sic], looking for work. He lived in Baltimore, Maryland, only a few weeks, he got word from his friends that Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, had better working conditions and more pay. He came to Pittsburgh, PA, got a job at the Bell Coal Company mining soft coal, earned money and saved until he had enough to send to his wife. So, she took the three children with her, and one died in Poland, and one daughter she left in Poland with a good friend because there was not enough money for a ticket on the ship. My father got settled in PA, later sent money to Poland to bring the daughter that was left with the friends in Poland. My father worked very hard mining coal, saved his earnings, which at that time was paid in gold, silver, nickel and copper—no paper money. Pay was two times a month, about $22, all depended how many tons of coal a person could load by hand shovel into the cars. My father saved enough money to purchase a building lot, hired a man to build a two-family home. While all this was going on, my father increased the size of his family by having three boys, one every two years, and I was the ‘last of the Mohicans.’ By now, my oldest sister was about age sixteen, she had a friend of a family as a boyfriend. They got married and moved to Chicago, Illinois, and they raised a family of seven girls and one boy. They made their home in Chicago. The next to the oldest sister was Mary, got a job in a pottery abelline factory in Carnegie, PA, and then she decided to go to Chicago to live with Veronica, the oldest sister. Nora, the youngest of the girls, got married, age twenty, Syracuse, NY, and married Peter Ryznar—he got a job in a shoe repair shop—and I, Walter, was born December 9th. I attended a Catholic Parochial school in Glendale, PA, with two of my brothers, Stanley and Joseph. John was the oldest of the four boys. He was born in Poland, he worked in the coal mines, later got in Superior Steel Company, Carnegie, PA. Stanley graduated from the eighth grade grammar school, got a job as a clerk in Hardy’s Drug Store in Carnegie, PA. The first World War started, brother John quit his job at the steel company and volunteered into the Army, was trained as engineer and shipped to France. Stanley got typhoid fever and died at the age of sixteen in a Pittsburgh Hospital. About six months later, Father died and is buried in Glendale, PA, cemetery, next to Stanley, his son. I was about eleven years of age at that time, I watched or attended the neighbor's three cows during vacation for a dollar a week. At that time people were allowed to have cows in the villages and see milk to neighbors. There was no electric street lights, only gaslights. Each day, in the evening, a constable would come on foot with a small ladder and light the gaslights and in the morning come to put out the lights. All the homes and buildings had gaslights, no electricity, only streetcars were electric, and some of the automobiles were electric and gasoline and a few steam cars. People that were in a higher bracket owned horses and buggies, sleighs for local transportations. After died, Mother sold the home in Glendale, came with Joseph, my brother, to Binghamton to live with my sister. They had moved from Syracuse a few years ago, which was in Johnson City, NY, before that it was Lestershire. Endicott Johnson Shoe Company was good to these workers, provided low-cost housing, gave bonuses, provided medical services, legal services, recreation and other benefits to their workers. When my mother and a brother, Joe, came, Joe was about sixteen years, got a job in Burbank Foundry, Binghamton, NY. I attended Catholic Parochial School. I was chosen to play in school in vaudeville plays. About six months, my mother died. I was twelve years old, and my sister and her husband, Peter Ryznar, worked in E.J. shoe factory company. They had a son and two daughters. I was older than they were but we grew up. I helped as much, as much as I could with the housework and made myself useful. The first World War ended and my brother, John, that enlisted in the Army at Glendale, PA, at the start of the War, came to Binghamton and lived with us. Got work in E.J. shoe factory, he was restless, talked my sister and her husband, Peter, to purchase a dairy farm where the Broome County Airport is situated at the present time. He quit his E.J. shoe shop but Peter did not quit. I graduated from the eighth grade grammar school and we moved to the farm. My brother Joe stayed in the city, got work at E.J., and about two years of dairy farming, my brother John gave up farming, leaving me, age eighteen, on the farm, stranded on the farm. With my sister and her husband and three children children, no one wanted to work on the farm at that time, that's it. On the north side of Prospect Street near border of Johnson City and Binghamton is the Town of Dickinson line. The contour of the land is the base of Mount Prospect, on top is the BOCES. This is where the St. Stanislaus Kostka Church and school was started by Rev. Jolak. This land was purchased by two spinsters, Ann and Mary McNamara. They lived in a nice white farm homestead on Prospect Street, and it was lined with huge maple trees on both sides of the street in front of their home, the street looked like a tunnel with dirt road, mud in the spring and in the autumn of the year. A family by the name of Okonovsy had a bakery nearby on Glenwood Ave, Binghamton, NY. They migrated from Fulton, NY. They were Polish descent, had a large family. They baked the finest and most tastiest rye bread. They were friends of my brother-in-law, Peter, Mary, and my sister Nora. On Downs Ave., where the electric trolley had a franchise, came to a dead end at the boundary of Johnson City, Port Dickinson and Binghamton. A family of Polish descent by the name of Huzar, they also came from Fulton, NY, and friends of Peter purchased a creamery, which at that time the milk had to be delivered no later than six o'clock in the morning to the consumer because there were no refrigerators, only iceboxes, and the consumer wanted fresh milk on the breakfast tables, it so they could use it before going to work. This was the year of 1922—there was no truck deliveries, only horse and wagon, Spaulding Bakeries, Cutler Ice Co., and all creameries had stables to house the horses. As I come back to where I started to tell you about, the Huzar family purchased a creamery from Mr. Lott on Downs Ave., Binghamton. I, Walter Dryja, was a very young boy after my mother died. I started to help Tom Huzar, who was the son of Mr. Huzar—he was about age sixteen—to load 12 quarts bottles to a case of milk in the wagon. About two a.m. in the morning, deliver the milk to the consumer, this was year of 1922. There was no under-the-railroad passes, we had to go over the railroad tracks. There were safety or stop gates to stop traffic across the tracks. When a passenger or freight train was coming, it happened one early morning, Tom and I were driving a gray mare horse and wagon with a load of milk across Jarvis Street, Binghamton, NY. We got halfway between the two railroad, the Erie and Lackawanna, the watchman at the tower lowered the stop gates, so we’re caught between the train and the train came roaring through. Tom jumped out of the wagon, grabbed the horse by the bridle, and I stayed in the wagon holding the reins. The horse reared up on his hind legs, picking Tom off the ground as the train went by. The tower watchman raised, raised the top gates. Tom got in the wagon and no one was hurt. We went about the business of delivering the milk. Do not ask me if I was scared, I was too naive to know any better. This and a few other less exciting incidents happened in my life. After my dear mother went to meet her master—this also happened before I graduated from St. Stanislaus Kostka School and before I went to the farm to help my sister—on the farm Peter had about fourteen milk cows, a few heifers, calves and a sire, three horses which we used on the farm to work, also for transportation to deliver milk every morning to a creamery, about four miles each way, winter and summer, rain or shine. I recall when the snow was three or four feet deep on the ground, snowdrifts about six feet deep, even higher, on the way to the creamery with twenty cans of raw milk in forty quart cans on a big bobsleigh pulled by the team of horses that I was driving, the horse lost his footing on the hard snow-packed road and fell in the soft snow, deep, he could not reach the ground with his feet, I had to shovel him out out of the snowdrift and help him to get back on the hard snow-beaten path and proceed with the delivery of the load of milk, which I collected from some of the neighboring dairy farms. I got paid twenty cents for a hundred pounds of milk, which was about two pounds of milk to one quart of milk. This was supposed to be delivered to the creamery in Maine, NY, three miles away before nine o'clock every morning. Every day in the year, rain or shine. This happened sometime in the winter morning, I cannot recall in my memory the day or year as I was returning from the creamery. After I delivered the milk the sky was bright, the sun was shining, it gradually began to get dark, the roosters began to crow, this was about ten o'clock in the morning, this was the total eclipse of the sun. As we struggled on this farm to make a living, my brother in law, Peter Ryznar, owner of this 130-acre farm where Broome County Airport's north runway is laid and operated today, the year 1977. At the year 1922 it was dirt road, mud in the spring and fall of the year, and passable roads in the winter, big snowdrifts, the wind never stopped blowing. At Mt. Ettrick the air is clear and very cold in the winter, fifteen degrees colder at the top of Ettrick than it is in the city of Binghamton. On this farm there was no luxuries such as electric, indoor toilets or bathrooms, no heating system in the homes, except a huge cast-iron stove in the central part of the house to burn wood, which was dragged and hauled from the woods by horses during the autumn or winter seasons and cut into twelve- or fourteen-inch pieces so they would fit in the stove. The only running water was, as I can remember, is when we needed water in the house to take a bath or for cooking, and I would run to the well and pump it out of the well into a pail or bucket and run with it to the house, is what you can call—running water. Anna: Did you ever melt the snow? Walter: No, we never melted snow, only we used it for batteries in the truck and used it for washing—it was soft water we stored—it in an olden wooden barrel—fifty-gallon barrels, it saved soap—it was soft water. We had a small pond on the farm, stocked it with bullheads—fish in it. They grew fast because it was a lot of food such as frogs in the winter, the neighbors and I would cut the ice off this pond with large hand ice saws. We hauled these blocks of ice, from 175 to 125 pounds each, to our houses—ice houses packed in the sawdust. The sawdust around these outside walls, twelve to eighteen inches thick so the ice would not melt away in the summer. We used the ice to cool the milk we got from the cows at the evening milking, and it had to be cooled overnight so it would not sour before it was delivered to the creamery in the next morning. We also had a treat once in a while on Sunday, we made some homemade ice cream with a make-it-yourself kit—ice cream was made by cranking a handle like hell, until your throat went dry, and you would get homemade ice cream. What kind of a flavor would like, try and get it. We only have vanilla today while it lasts. Well my brother-in-law saved a few dollars working in EJ shoe factory in the summer, when the roads were passable he paid $20 a week to the neighbor had a 1924 Chevrolet four-cylinder car to drive Peter and the other neighbors to work in EJ shoe factory. In the winter when the roads got impassable, Peter got room and board in the city and only came to the farm Saturday and Sunday. I, Walter, had to hitch up the old dobbin and go for Peter and take him back to the city on Sunday after milking the cows. It was about eight miles one way by horse and sleigh. It took one-and-a-half hours one way. There was several instances I can remember after taking Peter to the city and return to the farm, half frozen, my hands and fingers were so numb that I could hardly unbuckle the harness from the horses. Peter purchased a Ford, a truck tractor, one of the horses got sick, we were told by the veterinarian to destroy or shoot the horse. Peter purchased a new one, Ford Model T truck, $195 at that time, which could not pull its own weight up a dirt road on a hill where we lived on the farm, this was in the autumn of the year. Barns were destroyed by fire, Peter sold all the cows and horses, and I stayed with Peter and helped with disposal of the cattle. Then I found a job on a farm on Route 12, near Greene, NY—the Golden Gurnsey farm, owned by lawyer John Marcey, who practiced law from the sixth floor of the Security Building in Binghamton, NY, and he resided in the winter on Davis Street in Binghamton, and summer at the farm he owned and had Mr. Tyler managing it for him. Anna: Did you ever do anything to enjoy yourself? Walter: Yes. Work from sunrise to sunset. Anna: Did you ever go, go to Ross Park? Walter: Never had time. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Walter Dryja Subject The topic of the resource Dryja, Walter -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Dairy farmers -- Interviews; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Coal mines and mining; Milk Delivery; Polish Description An account of the resource Walter Dryja talks about his family's life, beginning with his father's emigration from Poland to Maryland, and then to Pennsylvania to work in the coal mines. He talks about his family life, working on different dairy farms, his long hours and grueling nature of his work, as well as the economic fluctuations in the production and sale of dairy products. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 17 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dryja, Walter ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-11-22 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 32:49 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7f201b9276f460e0b26f2130470879bc.mp3 839ffc5658ae6bc3b06b306f0001baa6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elwood, Ann Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-09-08 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:43 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55898">Interview with Ann Elwood</a> Subject LCSH Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Ann Elwood Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 8 September 1978 Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we start this interview by having you tell us where you were born and any of your recollections of your early childhood and something about your parents? Ann: I was born in Jamison, Pennsylvania, and I lived there until possibly I was, ah, five or six years of age, and my father was in ill health and was told that he must go to the Walter Reed Hospital so we moved from there to Bridgeville, Delaware, where he purchased a fruit farm. And that was, ah, operated by a couple that, ah, operate farms—ah, professional farmers—and we stayed there for three years when, ah, it was decided that he had surgery and he wished to move back to Binghamton where he'd be close to his family, as he was born in—ah, he was a Canadian and ah, and then he moved back to his father's and mother’s home in Franklin Forks, Pennsylvania, and we came back to Binghamton in April 1911, and he went in the hospital on April 2nd and had his surgery and passed away on June 25th of that year. Now his business when he was living in Pennsylvania was a lumberman and he disposed of that at the time of moving south. What else? Oh, and I—I attended the Binghamton schools, and after graduation I went to Lowell School of Business and took a business course in stenography, and they placed me with Bradstreets at the time I finished, about the time I finished my course, and Bradstreets was a mercantile agency and from there I went with, ah, the insurance firm of Steel and Powell in the Press Building and operated an Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine and took over the credits in that office. And after operating—being taught the operation of the Elliott-Fisher bookkeeping machine, the company wanted me to, ah, go with them and make installation of machines where they sold them in various places, which I did. I installed—err, they installed the machine in the agriculture department in Ithaca at Cornell University and I taught the operator there, and also two firms in Elmira, an automobile concern and a big agriculture business and several other places. Then my mother didn't want me to be out of town so much, so I gave that up and came back and was employed in the County Clerk's office for six years, and I also did credit work in the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company for several years before I had the opportunity to go to this NY State Senate in Albany, being the first woman from Broome County to be an employee of the Senate, and that was in 1939 and I was there for 27 years. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us something of your duties as a journal clerk in the Senate? Ann: I went to the NY State Senate in 1939 and l—ah, was given an opportunity to be chosen as a person to study and familiarize myself with the various departments to perform in case of an emergency and my, ah—the principal job that I had was assistant journal clerk. Now, the journal is composed of all the activities of the Senate from the time that the legislature convenes until it adjourns, every action and performance in the Senate Chamber is on record in the journal that pertains to the introduction and the complete procedure of each and every bill until it is passed or—or defeated, or doesn't come out of committee, so to speak. Now the—the importance of that office is to keep the journal for the Senate and it's compiled at the end of the session and is composed of many thousands of sheets. I had to edit the journal to see that all, ah, procedures were followed and that each bill that passed had the proper procedure and, ah, then the committees had to be referred to see that it was properly referred to the committees, and ah, was properly sent to the Governor for signature and then it was returned as a signed bill with a chapter number, and the chapter number had to be noted in the journal when it was signed by the Governor. The, ah—the journal clerk’s office also is responsible for the publication of all journal documents and all of the forms used, which would be over a hundred. They have to be controlled in the journal clerk’s office as to proper procedure and information and data on each form. All, ah—all nominations come from the Governor to the journal clerk’s office and are referred to the Finance Committee before going to the Senate for passage, and after passage they, ah, are signed and returned to the Secretary of State’s Office, but the governor has to submit all his nominations to us first. This, ah, procedure is, ah, very important and it applies only to the top officials of each and every department and those that the governor has the authority to appoint. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, during this time, ah, do you want to tell us about you—you met Mr. Elwood and you were married? Ann: Oh yes, I met Mr. Elwood. He was, ah—he was, ah, in World War I, and I met him and was married, and he, ah—he was a, a deputy sheriff and ah, also in fact I met him through our office. He was employed in Bradstreet when I was employed there. There is where I met him, and he passed away from a—a disease contracted during World War I. He passed away in 1941 and we had a, one daughter, Constance Elwood, who is now Mrs. Herbert J. Wilk, and ah— Susan: Her husband is the physician? Ann: Her husband is a surgeon and, ah, operating in the Binghamton hospitals, the Binghamton General Hospital and Lourdes and of course he does work at Wilson. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you tell us now, ah, some of the interesting events that you attended or some of the important people that came into your life during this period? Ann: Well I met many important people, all of whom I just can't recall now, but some of the events that I attended, and I think I got now my invitation because of, my position up here was, I was invited to two inaugural conventions at, ah, in Washington and, ah, two inaugural balls, I mean, in Washington, and ah, I was a guest at an Electoral College, which is a very rare occasion for an outsider, but they're held when the New York Electoral College is held in Albany in the Senate Chamber under the auspices of the Secretary of State, and I had a— And when I was in Albany I also, was acted in the, ah, Red Cross in World War II. I was a member of the motor corps, and during my experiences there I made several convoys, two to Camp Dix, one conveying, ah, ten-ton trucks to Camp Dix and the other driving Jeeps, and we made two trips to Camp Devan—one conveying, ah, Packard Ambulances, and the other, Ford Ambulances, which was very interesting and something that we all enjoyed. You—you convey the vehicle to the camp and then a large bus meets you there and returns you to Albany. Ah, this work was very, ah, very interesting because it also took us to airports at night when secret airplanes were coming in with either injured soldiers or officers, transferring them from one place to another, and the Motor Corps was called on to respond with coffee and sandwiches and something for them to nourish their bodies, and ah, this was always a secret affair. We must never know only about five or ten minutes before we had to make a trip where we were going and what we were going to do, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could you recall, ah, for us some of your memories of how Binghamton was in the early days? Ann: Well, when I came here we used to have streetcars and we went to the park—to Ross Park, which was the most popular playground and place in Binghamton. Every Sunday they had a band concert there and the park was filled with people. Then we used to go to Ideal Park, it was another popular place, and during the summer we belonged to the Orange Circuit, Orange County Circuit of Races, and they had horse racing there each summer, which we attended and ah, the, ah—I know we used to go by streetcar down there, and I think it cost us a nickel, no more than a dime. I know to go all the way from Binghamton down to Endicott I think it was a nickel, and the price on our streetcars were a nickel and the—and now—and then we had the YMCA, which was a popular place for the men, and I remember that vividly because our Republican Headquarters were located for many years in the old Bennett Hotel, ah, then later known as the Hotel Bingham, which was right across the street—of course those places have been dismantled now and torn down and replaced by other types of business, ah—and the Arlington, we moved from the Bingham to, ah, the Arlington, and stayed there as long as they were on top and when they decided to dissolve, why, we moved out and that building was soon destroyed. I mean dismantled and, ah—it seems I have moved around and been in all the landmarks of Binghamton through one way or another and when I went to school we, ah—our school, for a two or three years while they were finishing high school, we went to, ah, the school building in the old police headquarters at the corner of Washington and Hawley Street, and then from there to the new Central High. Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go on and have you tell us some of the clubs that you belong to? Ann: Well, I belong to the Monday Afternoon Club and I'm an active member in the, ah, Zonta Club of Binghamton, of which we have now, I think, the first club in Binghamton, male or female club, that has an international officer, and we have the international president of the Zonta Club of Binghamton and we're honoring her on September 23rd, and that's ah, Evelyn Dewitt, and ah, I belong to the Republican Club, several Republican clubs, and ah, the American Legion Auxiliary. I'm a fifty-year member of the American Legion Auxiliary and also a member of the Eight and Forty and, ah, held all the offices in the Auxiliary American Legion, Post 80 Auxiliary, except the president, and I, ah, was unable to accept that because my mother had died and I had to stay home to take care of my daughter, ah— Susan: Mrs. Elwood, could we go back and review, ah, the part of your life where you mention you had gone to, ah, two of the inaugural balls? Who were the Presidents at that time? Ann: The President at that time was President Eisenhower—I went to his inaugural ball and also the one for Nixon, and while we're on the subject of presidential officials, I would like to say that it was my pleasure to meet Mr. Rockefeller previous to his being selected, selected as our candidate for Governor. He was chosen in the Senate while I was there as chairman of the Constitutional Convention Committee, and George Hinman brought him in during an intermission in my office so I could meet Mr. Rockefeller, and ah, I told him that I was very pleased because I—I read from the papers that he is going to be our next Governor and I also, and I did neglect to tell you that in November 1977 l was chosen as the Woman of the Year by the Status of Women Council in—in, ah, Binghamton. Susan: That's fine. You certainly have been a very active lady in this community, Mrs. Elwood. Ann: Oh! Thank you. Susan: And it's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you very much for the interview. Ann: Well, I've enjoyed this very much. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann Elwood Subject The topic of the resource Elwood, Ann -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Clerks of court -- Interviews; Bridgeville (Del.); Franklin Forks (Pa.); New York (State). Legislature. Senate; Binghamton (N.Y.); Businesswomen -- Interviews; Albany (N.Y.); World War, 1939-1945 -- War work -- Red Cross; Women -- Societies and clubs; Political clubs; Lowell School of Business Description An account of the resource Ann Elwood talks about her moves from Bridgeville, DE, to Franklin Forks, PA, and her final settlement in Binghamton, NY, in 1911. She attended the Lowell School of Business and worked in business before becoming an assistant journal clerk in the New York State Senate and working for 27 years. She also discusses living in Albany (NY) and her involvement in the Red Cross Motor Corps during World War II and several social and political clubs in the community. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 18 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Elwood, Ann ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-09-08 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16:43 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/25821fb6fe0c54b12f91d2f50edecd42.mp3 49f89e172981d85d2df3779883f51659 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed English, Charles Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-28 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:08 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55901">Interview with Charles English</a> Subject LCSH English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Charles English Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 28 April 1978 Dan: Charlie, would you start out giving me your life and working experiences in the community, ah, starting with your date and place of birth? Charlie: Well, I was born, ah, July 18, 1930 in Binghamton and, ah, ah, my father was E.C. English. My mother's name was, ah, Edna L. Zimmerman, maiden name—she was from Johnson City. Ah, I was brought up in Windsor and lived here more or less all my life except for the time I was in the service of the United States during the Korean War and, ah, my two jaunts at college—ah, I attended, ah, Harpur College after graduation from Windsor High School—graduated from Harpur in 1952 with an A.B. in Foreign Languages—Spanish, ah, was the Major—and shortly thereafter, of course, was drafted into the Army and, ah, was led to believe that I was going to be a Spanish interpreter, and you know how that goes. (laughter). Ah, ended up being an Infantryman—sent to Korea with a bunch of, ah, Puerto Rico soldiers at the time—my only interpreting was, ah, trying to translate orders from the American officers of these Puerto Ricans. Well after, ah, in Korea, I ended up in, ah, the Signal Corps and worked in the troop information and education and ah, ah, raising the, ah, educational level of soldiers after, when the war ended and we came back to the United States. My dad and I had a conference about the drugstore, ah, and I decided that I would go back to Pharmacy School, so we went four years to Albany Pharmacy and, ah, had our B.S. Degree in 1959, so I'm now the third generation of the pharmacists here in the English family in Windsor, and I believe probably we're the oldest, ah, pharmacy, ah, being in one family in Broome County. Dan: When was it first established, Charlie? Charlie: My grandfather took it over in April of 1900 and, ah, the same pharmacy had been operated prior to him by, ah, Dusenberry and Lyons for a few years, and prior to them, ah, by a man named T.V. Furman, who ah, also was a prominent local official, ah, politician, and ah, I don't know but what I remember, a Board, ah, member of the Board of Supervisors of Broome County, and I understand Mr. Furman, ah, went into business as a result of buying out Dr. A.B. Stillson. Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Doc Stillson's father. Dan: Um. Charlie: Doc. Stillson's. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: So, ah, it's been in the same locale—the drugstore’s been in the same location for about a hundred years and, ah, 78 of those years now in our family. Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Ah, then ah, along with this, ah, we, we bought the building—joint owners—Marine Midland Bank and myself (laughter), and ah, we rent out two apartments upstairs and we rent out another section on the ground level to, ah, the Government, for it's been a Windsor Post Office in that location for as long as I can remember. Matter of fact, ah, I guess that was the location of the Post Office way back in the 1830s—before that building existed it was still in the same spot, so ah, we haven’t changed too much. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: Ah then, ah, ah, I, ’cause, ah, I live here, ah, in what you call the Hotchkiss House or Old Stone House—I guess it’s the only stone house in Broome County, ah, to my knowledge. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And this was built sometime between 1823 and 1825 by a man named Stiles Hotchkiss. His grandfather, David, is an original pioneer for the, ah—let a tract of land here in the village of Windsor, that he received, ah, from the Government, and he came here in about 1789 and settled on this tract. He divided some of the tract up among his, ah, six or more sons—I forget how many right off hand, and of course they in turn subdivided among their sons. David Hotchkiss was, ah, credited with, ah, being the person who designed the Village of Windsor—laid out the streets, ah, much as they are today. Main Street, Chapel Street, Grove are all part of his original plan and, ah, also he's a founder of the local Presbyterian church, incidentally, the same Presbyterian church that's here today. He, his family also you might credit with the, ah, one of the families who helped found the first, ah, public school here in Windsor also. Well this stone house, incidentally, was originally built for the purpose of being a distillery, and up in back here they have a series of three falls on what is now known as Hotchkiss Creek—originally the Hotchkiss family called it Falls Creek. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And they had a mill over, ah, near the Village, ah, constructed by, ah, M. Raphael Hotchkiss, Stiles's father, and about 1825 they moved that, ah, mill over here and built here on the creek and, ah, well, according to the 1885 Broome County Histories on the purest whiskey, ah, known to man, was manufactured here, and sometime or another after that, the family did move into the house and used it jointly as both the business and as a residence. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: The house is, ah, I guess what you call typical, ah, Federal period. There's two or three houses around town here that were built by, built by the Hotchkiss family. All of them, although this one is stone, there is another house down on the corner of Kent and Main, which is a wood clapboard house built on the same style, and they were copied after patterns in the Hotchkiss family up in Connecticut. Dan: Uh huh, very interesting. Now, ah, Charlie, how did you get started in your special interest here—your Civil War memorabilia? Charlie: Well, ah, I guess probably that results from, ah, joining the American Legion, ah. L remember, ah, when I got home from Korea in '54, ah, I been traveling for off and on, I guess about 3 weeks before I finally was able to get from the west coast to east coast due to, ah, storms and poor airplanes, as a matter of fact. When I got home, why, I went to a local barber—had a haircut, and ah, right then and there he talked me into joining the Legion, and ah, the following Memorial Day—some of the World War I vets, who for years had gone around and put flags out on the veterans’ graves all on, asked some of us newer, ah, Legionnaires if we'd go along and assist. In a sense, that was a mistake, because that first year started me on a project I've been doing every year since 1954, but we’d go around to, ah, a lot of the cemeteries here in Windsor, of which I believe there are 17 and with the exception of about 4 or 5, all of them are so-called abandoned cemeteries the town takes care of. Ah, they, ah, tombstones of some of the old Civil War veterans were beginning to fade away and became hard to read, so I became interested in, ah, making a record, and I did visit each cemetery and start copying down these names. Ended up, though, before I got done, I compiled a list of all the war veterans in the town of Windsor from the American Revolution through Korea—I haven't tackled the Vietnam era yet—and, ah, ah, then I began to do a little research on the men because I couldn't help but notice that a goodly number of the men in the Civil War, for example, either belonged to the 137th New York Volunteers, the 89th New York Volunteers, the 29th Infantry, or the 16th Independent Battery, which made me, ah, come to the realization they must have joined as a unit. Then, ah, began the historical research, and ah, the interest continually, ah, snowballed of course. The Museum, I guess, started because I decided I needed a few artifacts that maybe some of the men carried, and as a result we've gone from, ah, a couple of muskets, which I originally purchased, to, ah, the 45 by 40 building we have now to have our museum. Dan: Uh huh—how many muskets do you have now? Charlie: Well, I— Dan: Just guessing, I mean, you don't have to be exact. Charlie: I don't know—probably, ah, oh, 50 or 60 or more. Dan: Yeah—so in other words, it's been within the last 24-year period that you have accumulated this? Charlie: Yes, and another thing, too, about it is that, ah, a lot of people—of course, ah, the collection here, ah, due to inflation and so on and so forth, has become quite valuable. Where you used to be able to pick up a Civil War musket maybe for $25, it's at least ten times that now. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And ah, I can't stress the point, ah, any stronger than that. Ah, yes, it does have monetary value, but that's not my interest—my interest is its historical value. Dan: Right. Charlie: I, ah, just like so many others I'm a temporary, ah, caretaker of these artifacts, and ah, after me, who knows who the next caretaker will be? But over there is a French and Indian War Brown Vest musket, for example, manufactured about 1765, and incidentally it has a Dublin Castle marking on it. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: Of interest to you people of Irish Descent (laughter), but I do know that musket was used in the French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, probably the War of 1812. It was converted from percussion, from flint to percussion, about 1840, judging from the age of the hammer, and ah, it's been here in Windsor for I don't know how many years and, ah, here it is, ah, well over 200 years old, and like I say, ah, it probably had six generations of temporary caretakers. Dan: That's terrific, that's terrific. Would you, would you, ah, hazard a guess as far as your—the monetary value today of your full collection here? Charlie: Well, I really can't. Dan: Have you counted it at all? Charlie: I probably could determine it. Dan: Just roughly. Charlie: Well, of course another thing—I don't usually divulge, ah, ah, the general public what I think it might be worth—for insurance purposes, let us say that, ah, it's insured for approximately $60,000. Dan: Is that right? It’s, it's wonderful. I was, I'm sure everybody that comes through here is very impressed with the extensive collection—I've never seen anything like it before. Charlie: Well, from—there, again from the historical standpoint, ah, we do receive visitors from ah, ah, many areas that come through here that have heard about it, ah, fact, ah, here's a communication from, ah, a gentleman that is affiliated with the House of Commons of Canada, in Canada, who happens to be, like myself, a Civil War nut—he was an over-the-weekend guest with us here a couple of weeks ago, and it's surprising, here's a gentleman from Canada who, ah, knows all about Windsor, NY. He's related to the McClure's, who of course took part in the Clinton-Sullivan expedition, and ah, ah, early settlers over here just, ah, three miles up the road. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: Revolutionary War veteran. We have people from, ah, Virginia visit us frequently—ah, this house, in the year 1828 a man by name of Jed Hotchkiss was born, of which we have a picture or two here on the wall. Jed Hotchkiss, ah, went to his, ah, went to school here in Windsor and graduated from Virginia Academy—the one which his folks helped, ah, found, and after graduation he, ah, became a school teacher. He didn't need a college education in those day's—a High School certificate. To make a long story short, he ended up being, ah, in, a Founder of a boys’ academy at Mossy Creek, Virginia, along with a gentleman who had been one of his professors here at school, and he also, ah, ah, started another boys’ academy down there, down there near Churchville, ah, which he called Lock Willow, of which there are some pictures in the Library of Congress and the University of Virginia. Civil War broke out and his boys all enlisted in the Confederate Army and, ah, Jed Hotchkiss himself was approached by, ah, the Southern forces, ah, ah, to join them. His hobby had been for years mapmaking—his whole family around Windsor here had been surveyors and mapmakers, and some of the original roads and so on are laid out by members of his family. He did join the Confederate Army, and ah, shortly thereafter he, ah, joined them, as a civilian incidentally, ah, he was assigned and worked with Stonewall Jackson, and most of his life in service, ah, with the Confederate Officers who, ah, defended the Shenandoah Valley and, ah, he became a close personal friend of General Robert E. Lee, General Jubal Early, so on and so forth, and ah, I guess you might also say he became the unofficial, ah, Historian of Virginia, ah, ah, part in the Civil War. After the War he wrote the volume for the Confederate history on the State of Virginia and also collaborated with several other Confederate Officers who wrote histories on that, but the fact is he was born here in this house like I say in 1828, and some of his avid fans from Virginia have to make a trip up here now and then, you know, to check out his birthplace. Dan: Uh huh. Now according to the, ah, information here about the architectural aspects of your home, it was also listed as an Underground Railroad, at one time. Charlie: That's true, that's true. Dan: Do you have any particulars on that at all? Charlie: They have been unable to determine who owned the house at the time the Underground Railway was here, ah, I don't know if the Hotchkiss family still owned it or not. There is no question that there was a tunnel in our cellar—the rear of the, ah, house is a, ah, laid stone entryway with a hewn beam for a header over it, and ah, that was the entryway to the tunnel. My wife's father, who used to be a miner, is the last one that was, that I know of, that was in that tunnel. It was unsafe, so they strung wire across the entryway and then boarded it up. The tunnel left, ah, the rear of the house and came out someplace up here, ah, on the creek and, ah, every year or so we find indentations in our back lawn where something caved in and we have to fill it in, but as far as the particulars itself, all I've been able to gather is hearsay from some of the older residents around town. Dan: Now was this—your museum—this building here, built the same time the house was? Charlie: No, I built the museum here in 1970, and I faced it with stone in order to match the house. Dan: That was a good idea, that was a good idea, yeah. Charlie: This collection used to be in our cellar and we sort of outgrew the cellar. Dan: Umhm, yeah. Of course this represents, ah, all purchases, or do you get some donations? Charlie: Oh no, no—purchases. A lot of the items are purchased, a lot of them are donated and a few of them are on loan. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And of course we carry insurance on everything regardless of whether it's ours or what, and ah, some of—it's surprising, when I first opened the museum, there was very little in here, but on the other hand, with some of the donations, when people saw it was going to be a serious venture, then they— Dan: Then they wanted a part of it—be a part of it. Charlie: They, they contributed. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: And ah, ah. Dan: What are the hours that you're open, Charlie? Charlie: Well usually, ah, since I have to be at the drugstore a good share of the time, ah, it's open mainly on weekends. Dan: Weekends. Charlie: And, ah, I advise a lot of the people who are interested in seeing it, ah, if they will contact me at the store, make an appointment, I will be glad to open it for them evenings or whenever it is convenient for both of us, but other than that I say, primarily during good weather—the weekends. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Ah, getting back to your pharmacy, ah, did you notice a, quite a change, as far as the dispensing of prescriptions from the date of your dad and your grandfather up to the present date? In other words, there wasn't the repackaged generic and, ah, packaging there is today, but you really had to mix your own drugs. Charlie: That's true, and ah, when I was a youngster, I used to help my dad and grandfather—we used to make up, ah, ah, liniment for the athletic squad at the school, you know, and it was done by hand and, ah, ah, there were very few things that were not compounded. I remember when things like achromycin and terramycin came out and what a marvelous thing it was to add a little water to a bottle, shake it up, but ah, ah, ‘course today, we have, ah, medicine you couldn't buy for any kind of money—some of it as long as ten years ago, and as granted, there isn't much compounding, but on the other hand I don't think my dad or my grandfather, either one, would be very happy with, ah, today's, ah, method of operating a pharmacy. Ah, a lot of that I blame on the government, but it's, ah, ah, there's as much paperwork or more than is the actual work that, ah, you do along the line of pharmacy, and ah, there’s a great deal of regulations that never existed even ten years ago that, ah, it may be good, I don't know, but ah, I personally feel there's too much government interference, not only in my business but everybody else—so some politician can perpetuate his job, you know. (Laughter). Dan: Right—ah, going up the road a little ways, ah, the road to Ouaquaga, are you acquainted very much with the Shaker Barn? Charlie: Yes. Dan: The Shaker Sect—how long ago were they, ah, active? Charlie: Ah, I would guess, ah, probably the latter part of, ah, the last century was their high point here in Windsor. Matter of fact this stone house, I find in some of the records, was ah, the mortgage was held by the Shakers when they were here. There's a man, I believe his name is Levi Shaw, who was a Shaker who operated a sawmill right down here, ah, near the river bridge, and ah, they all tied in together. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: Ah, the ah, Shaker Museum, incidentally, in ah, Chatham, New York, now, ah, Gary Hinman, ah, is, ah, working up there, and he's tied in a few strings that were loose here, regarding the Shaker history. Dan: Yeah, yeah—it's very interesting. Do you happen to know what the significance is of having an entrance and an exit to the Shaker Barn? Charlie: Matter of fact, I don't. Do you? (Laughter). Dan: No I don't. I saw it mentioned, you know, or ah, read about it mentioned someplace, and I just wondered what the significance was. It was probably part of their religious background, you know? Charlie: No I don't. Dan: Do you have any children, Charlie? Charlie: Oh yes, we have, ah, a boy who is eighteen, then we have a girl that is eleven and a boy that is, ah, ten. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: And of course the, ah, our oldest son's out on his own, so to speak, now—he went to BOCES and learned plumbing and heating, and ah, he’s doing quite well with that. Dan: That’s, that’s a good trade. Charlie: Then, ah, my younger ones here—they're my helpers, you know, here at the museum—yeah, when we need the glass cleaned. Dan: Do you hope to get a pharmacist out of one of them? Charlie: I don't know—to tell you truthly, I'd like to discourage it. Dan: You'd like to discourage it? Charlie: Uh huh. I can't, ah, I don't care if it's pharmacy or whether it's buying a new car or what—consumerism is a big thing today, and ah, I think it's nice that, ah, people are able to buy things as economically as possible, but on the other hand I think the—not only the American workman but the, I suppose the workmanship from our friends across the seas, is terrible. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: You, yourself, probably back in 1936—if you bought a new car, it lasted you ten years or twelve years, right. Dan: They're only built to last a couple of years. Charlie: They're built to sell, period, and the same way in, ah, the ah, pharmacy business, ah, everything is aimed at consumerism, not quality. Dan: Right, right—yeah, I know my, my car is rusting out and it's only a ‘73. Charlie: Oh that’s, I, ah, I don't think I would encourage my son to be a retail pharmacist—maybe if he wanted to be a pharmacist in another field. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: There's too much competition, too much junk for sale. Dan: Right, right, it's no longer a drug store—perfect example is Eynon—call themselves Eynon Drugs and sell everything. Charlie: Yeah, true. Dan: Well, is there anything else of interest that you think you would like to add on to this, ah, interview, Charlie, before I terminate it? Charlie: Well, I can't think of any. Dan: What clubs do you belong to? Charlie: Oh gee, let's see. I'm trying to get out of things instead of get in them, ah, always like that. I've been a member of the American Legion, member of Chamber of Commerce here, ah, I ah, worked with the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, in fact, I'm on the, presently on a Boy Scout committee here. I guess at one time or another I belonged to almost every organization we've had in town. Church groups, ah, and Civic and, ah, now they do have the museum. I try to, ah, spend a little more time here and a little less time out, ah, in some of the organizations, ah, and ah, along of course, Fire Company, and ah I'm still a part-time policeman here, we have a— Dan: Oh, are you helping out John Gray? Charlie: Yeah, I do that, and ah, ah, ‘course I've been Town Clerk, too, for—I've been in the Town Clerk's office, so to speak, as a Deputy or Town Clerk for 25 years now. That takes a little time also. Dan: Yes, yes. Charlie: So I limit my outside activities. I really enjoy the museum and, ah, especially the Civil War part and the part that Broome County men played, and ah, I can completely lose all my problems or cares I might then, I have had during the day by getting involved in this business of Broome County History. Dan: It’s wonderful, that's great, yeah. Well, I certainly appreciate your taking the time off, Charlie, to permit me to come up and interview you. Charlie: By the way, I was just going to mention it—we were talking a little while ago about, ah, the immigrants idea and so on, so forth, established here, and this is a tidbit of Civil War history you might not know. You know where the IBM homestead is now? Dan: Umhm. Charlie: Well, that belonged to my great-grandfather Eli Crocker. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: OK, that was his farm. Now the fellow he sold it to is the one that, ah, apparently bought the—sold the land to IBM for their Country Club, because Eli never got a thing out of it—my grandmother was born down that way. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: And, ah, if you recall, a couple of years ago Tom Cawley had an article in his column in the Binghamton Press here, the tree that was cut for the keel of the Monitor—that, ah, in the Battle of the Monitor and the Merrimac, came from this area. Well it was Eli's farm that shipped that lumber up the canal down the Hudson River to Brooklyn Navy Yard, you know, when the keel of the Monitor, but ah. Dan: Very interesting. Charlie: I just thought that was a little, little sidelight from there. Dan: Yeah that's great, great—those little sidelights you don't find in history books. Charlie: Eli, incidentally, you know he joined the 8th Regiment in Broome County, and he had a manservant, negro—you know, wasn't a slave, manservant. OK—they called him Old Bay Tom, and, ah, funny part of it was, Old Bay Tom enlisted too, and I have a picture of him over here in his Civil War uniform, Negro. I don't know what Regiment he belonged to, I've never been able to find out—that was never in the Family Bible or anything, right—I imagine probably the 54th Massachusetts—that was one of the first Negro Regiments, but ah, one ironic thing about Old Bay Tom was, after he came back to the Binghamton area, he ran for Mayor of Binghamton. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: He knew that he didn't have a chance of winning, you know, but ah, just the idea of, probably, it was the first case of a, of a negro, ah, taking a step forward, asserting himself, trying to get in something that was, ah, a white man's haven, you know, and he drew a lot of votes, believe it or not. Dan: You don't recall what year that was, do you? Charlie: I did know, but I can't recall right now. Fact, I think there is a painting of this gentleman either down at the Courthouse or down at Roberson Memorial now. Dan: Uh huh. Charlie: But very few people knew that he was a candidate for Mayor of Binghamton, I guess in the 1870s. Dan: 1870s—that’s great. Charlie: But, ah, we got a couple other—that picture up in the corner, incidentally, Colonel Walton Dwight—remember, heard of him? Dan: No, no. Charlie: Remember when, ah, a couple of weeks ago, they had an article about those, ah, buildings on upper Front Street? They’re falling down—they weren't fit for even the welfare families. Dan: Oh yeah—Dwight Block, you mean. Charlie: Dwight Block. Dan: Yeah. Charlie: Ah, this Walton Dwight was the Mayor of Binghamton, and that was his home up in there, see. That, oh gee, that was a fabulous place. Well, Walton Dwight originally came from Windsor, West Windsor, and he wanted to become an Officer in the Union Army, and ah, of course they appointed a lot of their Officers, right. So he applied to New York State, but they wouldn't give him a Regiment so he went down here below Great Bend, in Pennsylvania, and they—he went into the lumber business. Well, it ended up that he and a whole bunch of lumberjacks signed up to get in and they got a Commission off of Governor Curtin in Pennsylvania, and they went in as the 2nd Pennsylvania Bucktails. Mr. Dwight, ah, became, ah, almost an instant hero ‘cause shortly after he, ah, became an Officer, he got involved in the Battle of Gettysburg and he got shot in the arm on the first day of the Battle—so naturally he goes to the hospital and all this, and he comes back, wounded hero in the Battle of Gettysburg, big thing, he comes back to the Binghamton area and they have the parades and everything and parade him around, what a wonderful fellow he is, you know, and sooner or later, ah, he got talked into running for Mayor and he became the Mayor of Binghamton. According, there again, to some history books, ah, while he was Mayor of Binghamton he ran into a number of financial difficulties—some of it was public money and, ah, but the big thing he did when he was Mayor of Binghamton—it seemed the Great Chicago Fire occurred during his term. He's very famous for the amount of money he was able to raise in Binghamton to send to the fire victims out in Chicago. Dan: Is that right? Charlie: Umhm. Dan: That’s very interesting, and now the Dwight Block, they're thinking about tearing that down—moving all the tenants out of it. Charlie: That's right, and that was his, that was a very prominent place in Binghamton history at one time. Dan: Well, Charlie, can I play this back for you? Charlie : Sure. Dan: OK. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Charles English Subject The topic of the resource English, Charles -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Pharmacists -- Interviews; United States -- History -- Civil War, 1861-1865; Underground Railroad; Windsor (N.Y.); Korean War, 1950-1953; Harpur College; Hotchkiss Family; Jed Hotchkiss; Eli Crocker; Windsor, NY Town Clerk Description An account of the resource Charles English discusses his upbringing in Windsor, NY, graduating from Harpur College, and serving in the Korean War. He worked as a third-generation family pharmacist and served as the Windsor Town Clerk. He discusses the Hotchkiss home and this family's involvement in the founding of Windsor and their contributions during the Civil War. He expresses his deep knowledge of the Civil War, detailing the museum he operates and its Civil War artifacts. He discusses his grandfather, Eli Crocker, who, along with his manservant, enlisted in the Civil War. After his discharge, Crocker's manservant, ran unsuccessfully, for Mayor of the City of Binghamton, NY. He also mentions that his house was used as an underground railroad stop. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 19 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource English, Charles ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-28 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:08 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/da72ea754a74362c1913594f9f88b0cc.mp3 089c47ef19e54958e11e3bc3a885bcc0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fawcett, Beccye Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-01-05 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:55 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55904">Interview with Mrs. Beccye Fawcett</a> Subject LCSH Fawcett, Beccye -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; New Orleans (La.); New Orleans University; Key West (Fla.); Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Underground Railroad; Race discrimination; Binghamton Public Library; Trinity M.E. Zion Church Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Beccye Fawcett Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 5 January 1978 Dan: OK, now, Mrs. Fawcett, why don't you relate your life experiences from the time that you were born up until the present date? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, the daughter of the late Mr. and Mrs. Herbert Boyd Sr. I received my education in the public, early public education in the public schools of New Orleans. I graduated with a major in Education from New Orleans University. I married the late Reverend A. Luther Lightford, and he was assigned to the ministry of a church in Key West, Florida. We went there, he served as the spiritual leader of the church—I taught school for two and a half years. He was then transferred to the parish here in Binghamton, NY. His ministry here was rather short-lived in that he died after a year and a half of service. I was then ordained a local preacher to carry on the work which he had begun. I served the church from October 1933 to June 1934. In June of 1935, I took the Civil Service Examination for a worker in the Binghamton Public Library. I was the first Black person to take the examination and to be appointed by the City as a worker in one of the City departments. It wasn't easy even though, ah, I was here in Binghamton in the North. I ran into quite a bit of prejudice, quite a bit of discrimination, sometimes very disheartening. Ah, I remember so vividly, ah, the first check that I received after two weeks of work. I knew it wasn’t in keeping with the salary set by the Civil Service Commission, and when I received it I went into the secretary’s office and said to her rather meekly, because back in ’35, you had to speak meekly, believe it or not, even though you were in the North, and ah, I said, "I think something is wrong with my check," and she said, "Well I have nothing to do with it, you will have to speak with the librarian.”  So, believe it or not, I stood around trying to get to the librarian. When she came in—she was out to lunch, probably, but before I could get to her, the secretary had already gotten in to her, and she said to the secretary, “Well tell her she can take it or leave it—she doesn't have to stay." It was quite a blow to me, it was quite a shock. I went down to the Ladies’ Room—I shed bitter tears over such cruelty, over such a reaction, and I said, “Lord, should I stay, should I leave?" He answered me and said, "Stay, because if you leave, the feeling that exists will be there will never be another Black person employed in the Binghamton Public Library.” So, with all the courage that I had, I went to her, the secretary, and I said, "I am staying now," and I did, and in July of 1974, I finished 36 years of working as a servant of the public and community. I, ah, would like to make a quote because I think it is so apropos of the struggle that I had, and this quote is from a letter that I received from Mr. M. Charles Miller on July 2, 1974 when I was, ah, retiring, and he said, and I quote, "You overcame handicaps and finished your career with a significant position on the staff. In so doing, you not only served the library but you served the Black community as proof its members could and would take their places as leaders and doers in the fabric of our Social, Educational and Economic society," unquote. I have seen many, many changes in our community. I recall when the first Black girl tried to get into the school system. She went into the Superintendent’s office—spoke to his receptionist, who said to her, “The Superintendent is in a conference and you’d have to wait," and so she did. She waited all morning—she went out to lunch—she came back—she waited all afternoon—she left when the office closed. She went back the second day, same thing happened. She went back the third day and they decided this girl is determined, and so the Superintendent saw her. She was then employed and became the first Black woman to become a member of the Board of Education. She is still a member. That was back around in the early forties and she has served the school system well. But times have changed—today, I don't know the exact number of black teachers but it is quite a considerable number of teachers in the system. In 1954, when the New York State Commission came into being, of which I am a charter member, the pattern of thinking, ah, the community thinking was a bit changed, because up until that time, there was only one Black person employed at IBM, one at E.J. Shoe Factory, and this one was there because his great grandfather had worked for the Johnson family as a butler, so they kept him on as a token of appreciation of what his grandfather had done for the family. But all of that has changed now, ah, all of the industries and out of Broome County are employing large numbers of Black people. If you are capable, if you have the qualifications, if you have the training, I am very happy to say that today, 1978, Black people can find the job, the position wherever there is an opening that they meet the qualifications, and ah, I think of the housing situation—I remember very well that before the Urban League and the NAACP came into being into our community, I was one of the lone voices crying in the wilderness for people to open their hearts and, as Christians, to make way for Black people to live and to have decent places to live. Today, if a Black person has the money, he can buy and live anyplace in Broome County. And so, ah, through the 47 years I have seen so many changes, not only economic, educational, social, that you can barely think in terms that 40 years ago a Black person was as much discriminated against here in Binghamton as he was in the deep South. As a child growing up I frankly didn't, ah, encounter any discrimination. We lived in a mixed neighborhood. We were probably considered a middle-class family—my mother never worked outside of the home—she stayed in near her family. My father was the breadwinner of the family—he was an accomplished blacksmith and at that time horses and wagons and all were in style. So as a child, I grew up in a very well rounded Christian family. And so through my life, I have, after coming to Binghamton, experienced more discrimination and more segregation than I did as a child in New Orleans. Dan: Is that right? Now you speak of more segregation—in what respect? Down south were you not restricted to where you could ride on the bus, and etc.? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes. Dan: You know, in the public restrooms. Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes. Dan: Which you didn’t find up here. Mrs. Fawcett: Well no, we didn't find it here to a degree—it was more subtle. For instance, ah, you could get on the bus here in Binghamton and get your seat and you could ride all over the city, and no one, not a white person, would come and take the seat next to you, so you rode there alone, and, ah, Black people have a certain sense that they know when someone is deliberately discriminating against them. And, ah, so in the South there were signs saying “White People,” “Negroes Only,” “White People Only.” You saw those signs so you knew this is where you go, but here there were no signs, but you knew that they didn't want you. Dan: The inference was there. Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right, that’s right, and ah, even in restaurants, you probably could go in but if you didn't check, ah, make a very close check on the bill when it was handed to you, ah, you .would find that it had been upped—increased so that, ah, you realized, “I'm not going there, because on their bill of fare it was so much, but when I get my check, it’s a different price.” Those subtle ways of saying. Dan: At the time that you first got your paycheck, you said there was discrimination as far as the amount? Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right. Dan: Now wasn’t there a Labor Board or anybody that you could go to to complain rather than to your immediate supervisor? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah no, there was no Labor Board, and ah, I might clarify that, ah, in those years, the City fathers would make out a large check covering all of the expenses for the year of the Libraries—the book sales, the equipment and the supplies, the salaries, and then the librarian and the Board could sit down and say who’s going to get what and how much, and that is what happened in my case. And it wasn't ’til a year later, when I felt that I was on a little more solid ground, that I went in and spoke to the librarian and I told her that I had worked a whole year without receiving the salary that the Civil Service job called for, and she said "I don't think that was right," and I said, “Well, you have your canceled checks, though,” and I said, “I am going to go to the Civil Service Commission and find out why I am not receiving what I am supposed to get,” and she became very much upset and she said, ''Oh please don't do that, don't do that, ah, we will see that this is corrected.” Well then the following year, ’36 or ’37, I was then, my salary was then put on the basis for which the job called for according to the Civil Service. Dan: Were you ever paid retroactive to this? Mrs. Fawcett: I never was. Dan: Never paid retroactively? Mrs. Fawcett: There was a time when I thought, well, maybe I should, and then I said, No, ah, it would just merely create a feeling and a lot of unfavorable publicity, ah, for the library, for the librarian and probably for me. Dan: Now you, ah, when you retired, what position did you hold as far as the library? Mrs. Fawcett: I, ah, was principal clerk and head of the overdue department with a full-time assistant and two part-time assistants. Dan: This is the Binghamton Public Library? Mrs. Fawcett: This is in the Binghamton Public Library. Dan: Now going back to when you first came here, Mrs. Fawcett, you said your husband was—took a parish here in the city? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: But he only lived for a year and a half. Mrs. Fawcett: A year and a half. Dan: What church was he— Mrs. Fawcett: That was the Trinity M.E. Zion Church. At that time it was located on Sherman Place over in the 7th Ward, it has since moved in to the 1st Ward at Oak and Lydia. Dan: And he only lived a year and a half. Mrs. Fawcett: A year and a half, and ah, he had begun such a fine work in the community until he must have felt I was capable of carrying on his work until the end of his conference year, which was in June and, ah, which I did. Of course I had studied for the ministry. Dan: You were ordained to the ministry yourself? Mrs. Fawcett: I was ordained as a minister to carry on, and when we went to conference, the Bishop of the conference decided that there were other things that I could do and that he would send a man here. In the meantime I had taken the examination, ah, for the, this job in the Library, and so in leaving the church I went into this program. But my experience has been, and it probably still exists today, a Black person going into any new job or being the first one in that job, still has butterflies—still seems to be concerned as to whether he will be received appreciatively. Dan: Well do you think it is because of the color of their skin or their education? Mrs. Fawcett: It is definitely because he is a Black person. Dan: You have had, ah, a very sound background, educational background—you’re going to school and everything—more so than the average, I think today you will agree, no matter where you go, you could go right in and get a job. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh yeah. Dan: With your educational background. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: Whereas, ah, today of course things have changed. I mean that, ah, you are not required to have as much educational background. At the same time whereas the more you have the more opportunities prevail—the chances of getting a position, but ah, you certainly had a very—you were well educated before you came north. Now did you ever have any children, Mrs. Fawcett? Mrs. Fawcett: No, no children. Dan: No children—that’s too bad. Of course you were only married—how long were you married? Mrs. Fawcett: Well I remarried, now. Dan: You're remarried? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, we were married, ah, a year and a half, and we were in Key West, Florida, two years and a half. We were married around 4-5 years when he passed, and then I remained a widow until 1941, when I married my beloved husband Claude, and he was in the Service at that time, and ah, speaking of that, it reminds me of the attitude of people right here in Binghamton in 1941, when it was, ah, publicized in the, ah, newspapers that a troop of Black soldiers would be stationed at the Armory here, ah, on Washington Street, and the reverberations, the newspapers and the statements of the people and, ah, they just did not want a Black troop here, that it was going to destroy the community. Now these men were serving their country—they were in the Army to serve their country but there was quite, ah, quite, ah, disgusting to say the least of feelings among the white community, but they came, they proved themselves. Dan: Well I know when I was inducted—ah, not when I was inducted, but when I took my basic training—I think Dr. Dorsay was in at the same time, although I am not personally acquainted with the Doctor, but I knew that he was at the same base as I was—it was at Camp Lee, Virginia. Mrs. Fawcett, are you acquainted at all with, ah, Underground Railroad stations? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, to a degree I am. Dan: I mean, to your knowledge or hearsay. Mrs. Fawcett: Ah yes, because you see there is nothing in the history. Now when I did this documentary on Deep Are the Roots, I tried to trace many of the Underground stations in this area and, ah, I know that, ah, out in the town of Maine there was one and at the Gonzales home, and after doing much research through the library, I found this home. I contacted the Gonzales, and when WBNG did the shooting of this documentary, ah, most of it was done at her home, and ah, you see so many of, and, and this is going to be interesting because, ah, in the school system, so many of those of the young people do not realize that the Underground Railroad was not a railroad such as we know it. Dan: Not per se. (chuckle). Mrs. Fawcett: That’s right, but it was a sort of follow the drinking holes, ah, when these slaves would escape and, ah, through some way, they travel mostly by night and most of them by streams, and they would always be able to make some contact with some white family who would be on the lookout. Dan: They were more or less places of refuge. Mrs. Fawcett: Places of refuge. Now, ah, Montrose has a large home that was one of the Underground sites and, ah— Dan: Do you know of any in Binghamton? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, I understand that where the old Federal building is, there used to be a building there, a home there on that site that was one time, but this I have never been able to, ah, really make something that would be a fact. Dan: Of course that was quite a few years ago. Mrs. Fawcett: But, ah, I do know that this home in Maine, and from Maine into Lisle, there was one, and Owego there was another, and then into Ithaca, Elmira, and then we went on north into Canada, and you know, it is rather interesting, ah, how the terminology “Underground Railroad” came about. Ah, according to history, ah, in Virginia there was this large slave owner, and this particular day one of these men, a slave, jumped into the river to lead to the other side, and ah, he immediately called the other slaves and some of his help and they got into a boat, and by the time they got to the other side of the river, they searched the ground all around and they couldn’t find this slave, and when he went back, ah, to his plantation, when they said "Did you get him?" and he said, “No, he must have gone underground.” Dan: That’s how the term originated, huh? Mrs. Fawcett: That’s how the term originated. Dan: Now is Mr. Fawcett still living? Mrs. Fawcett: Oh yeah, ah, it’s funny you don't know him, because he was in the catering business here in Binghamton for over 25 years, matter of fact he still does some catering. Dan: Is that right? Mrs. Fawcett: Ah, but he is retired from this, ah, to a large degree, but he did catering for some of the finest families, weddings and what have you in this community, Montrose, Ithaca and all around. He is now working for the State at the new State Building. He is the night supervisor of the housekeeping department. He's been there since the building opened. Dan: So most of your time here in Binghamton was spent with the Library. Are you acquainted with Mr. Newcomb, who is a retired librarian from the University? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: You do know him? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: Well that’s fine, he's on vacation right now. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh he is. Dan: And I imagine he will be interested in this interview when he returns. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes. Dan: He is helping us out with this program. Mrs. Fawcett: Oh, marvelous. Dan: Yeah, so is there anything else you would like to add, Mrs Fawcett? You're affiliated with what church now? Mrs. Fawcett: Trinity M.E. Zion Church. Dan: The same church. Mrs. Fawcett: And, ah, I am a member of the Urban League and NAACP. I am the founder, which I am very proud of, of the Semper Fidelis Women’s Club. And it is the affiliate of the Empire State Federation of Colored and we do a very fine job, communitywise, on all levels of community life. I have received all types of plaques. Last year I was the first Black woman to be honored by the Broome County Statehood of Women, which I am quite proud to receive for my work in the community. Dan: Would you care to tell me how old you are, Mrs. Fawcett? Mrs. Fawcett: I am 74. Dan: 74—that’s wonderful. You've been retired just about two or three years? Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, three years. Dan: Three years. Mrs. Fawcett: I retired in 1974. Dan: I see—well that’s fine. Mrs. Fawcett: I thank the Lord I am still active and capable of carrying on. Dan: Well I certainly appreciate your calling us and consenting to this interview, and I've enjoyed it very much. Mrs. Fawcett: Well I've enjoyed doing it. I like to talk of—it’s rather encouraging to see the change that has taken place in our community. Dan: As long as it is a change for the better. Mrs. Fawcett: It is, it definitely is a change for the better. Dan: That’s good. Mrs. Fawcett: Because now people can go about living their lives. Black people can, ah, with a feeling of security with the, what shall I say, with a feeling you are definitely a part of the community structure, and that you're not just something standing on the sidelines waiting to be given a handout, and that is very reassuring to the Black people of the community. Dan: Well that’s wonderful. Mrs. Fawcett: And I might add this, that unlike, ah, most people think, white people in the community think that there is a dense concentration of Black people in the community—there isn't. Ah, the, ah, like to refer to the Susquehanna area and all, but you find as many white people in that area— Dan: Oh yes, definitely. Mrs. Fawcett: —as Black people. Even before they began to move them out, and now Black people are scattered all throughout Broome County, Binghamton, Endicott, Endwell, Vestal. Dan: I remember my grandparents—their first home was down on Tudor Street. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, yes. Dan: In fact years ago, it was Irish and just as many Jews down there. Mrs. Fawcett: Yes, because the Rosefakys were there. Dan: Sure, a lot of them originated down there. Mrs. Fawcett: And, ah, the Koffmans moved now, with the Loan Company I believe. Dan: Well I thank you very much, Mrs. Fawcett. Anything you'd like to add before I turn this off? Mrs. Fawcett: No, I think that is about it. Dan: Okay. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Beccye Fawcett Subject The topic of the resource Fawcett, Beccye -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; New Orleans (La.); New Orleans University; Key West (Fla.); Binghamton (N.Y.); African Americans -- New York (State) -- Binghamton -- Interviews; Underground Railroad; Race discrimination; Binghamton Public Library; Trinity M.E. Zion Church Description An account of the resource Mrs. Fawcett details her life from her upbringing in New Orleans, LA, through her education at the public high school, then getting her degree in education from New Orleans University, to her relocations with her husband, who was a Reverend that worked in New Orleans, then Key West, Fla. and finally in Binghamton, NY, where he passed away. She describes her work for the Trinity M.E.Church and her application to work at the Binghamton Public Library, as well as being the first Black woman to be appointed in one of the city departments. She discusses the discrimination she faced in the workplace and how she stood her ground for equal treatment, as well as the changes in treatment of Black people in the community during her years in Binghamton. She discusses her interest and knowledge of the Underground Railroad. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 20 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fawcett, Beccye ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-05 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 33:55 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/5a7ca79f6c28232519f43ea9ff3a60ea.mp3 2222f151915507ddbafbde6a29b56bcd https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fbba950c6bb0ca2b022b79349df76a43.mp3 b2654f72c2f3b97491557a5b0dc4fcb6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fenson, Mary Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-04-25 ; 1978-06-20 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55907">Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck)</a> Subject LCSH Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Interview with: Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Dates of Interviews: 25 April 1978 and 20 June 1978 [Interview #1: 25 April 1978] Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Mrs. Simon Fenson, 2121 Farm to Market Road, RD#2, Johnson City, NY, on Apr. 25, 1978. Mrs. Fenson, will you start telling me about your life and working experiences in the community, starting with your date and place of birth? OK—start. Mary: What shall I say? Nettie: Start—where you came from. Mary: I come from Austria. I was 16 years old. I come to this country 1906—September 28. My father was here. They take me to factory, then I got a job up there—then I work in a cotton mill. Nettie: When you came from Austria—where did you go first? What city or town did you go first? Mary: Oh, I come on the town called Crampton, but now they don't call that Crampton—they call it Warwick—but before, they call it Crampton, Rhode Island. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: I go to factory, I make—I work in machine, made thread—they call it spinning. Nettie: Do you remember how did the job—the procedure of the job? Mary: My father go and ask the boss, and they don't wanna take me in because I was still very young. I had to wait two months before I was the age of 16, then they took me in the factory to work. I worked on the machine, where they made thread—thread—that's all. Nettie: How did you make this thread? Mary: The machine did the work—the machine did the work— Nettie: Did you have to feed it? Mary: You have to take one thread and another thread and feed it into the machine—and out of the two twined together makes the one strand of thread. This is called a spinning machine. Nettie: After you left Rhode Island, did you come here? Mary: No, jobs were scarce, pretty strict, my husband had a friend in Taunton, Mass. He went there for a visit and they suggested he come here. There is work here. So, we went there—true, he got a job—and I got a job—all was pretty good. Nettie: Where was this? In Endicott? Mary: No, no, no—Taunton, Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Nettie: What did you do in Massachusetts? The same thing? Mary: Same thing, same thing—just a different company—same thing, same job on the machine. Let's see—and then we stayed there a long time. My husband got a job—was not the greatest job—just holding on—later on he got a job in the silk factory, he was an inspector looking over silk cloth and I was still working. Later, I had an uncle living in Binghamton. My uncle had written me a letter and told me to come to Binghamton—as “Here, we have the EJ factories, lots of people are working here and getting overtime pay. Come here.” We quit our job and came to Binghamton.  Nettie: What did you do? Did you work for EJ, too? Mary: No, I couldn't work - just my husband worked. I was looking for a job but couldn't find one—because—don't need it. I work in Dunn McCarthy five weeks. Nettie: Where? Mary: Dunn McCarthy. Nettie: What did you do there? Mary: Oh—when they were wearing shoes with the buckle on the side—I sewed the tongues onto the back. I worked 5 weeks but could not work any longer as our daughter was—let's see, about 6 years old and was about to enter school. We did not find living quarters so my husband bought a house. I had to stay at home—I was at home. We lived in this house—I cannot how long—I guess, from ’17 up to 1920. Then later, we traded the house for a farm. Nettie: Where's the farm located? Mary: Right over here. Nettie: What's this street? Mary: Oh—just next door! Nettie: What is your address? Mary: R.D. #2, Johnson City! Nettie: OK. Mary: Yeah, from 1920 we came on this farm, we were poor—hard life—dilapidated farm—ah little by little—my husband was working in the factory—there there wasn't much work so he had to quit—decided we would farm—he didn't know anything about farming and I didn't understand farming, but we were young so we figured we would get along. Nettie: You would learn. Mary: Yeah. I was in town occasionally and saw every once in a while, a farmer would come into town with his horse and wagon and bring in the different things to sell. I was thinking, I, too, will try—take the horse and wagon downtown and sell something, also. We owned three cows—so, I made cheese, butter and took it with me. Many customers bought these from me. One time, ah—people bought from me but few paid for it. Times were bad—we were poor—no money coming in from anywhere. Once as I was out delivering butter, cheese—I do not know the name of the street at this time—I was about to deliver some butter to a customer—to one of the Polish ladies—when this man, an insurance man named Bay—I didn't know his first name but last name was Bay, a John Hancock Insurance man—stopped me and asked, “Housewife, how is business?" (Laughing.) “Business is good—people are buying but nobody is paying anything.” Nettie: Free. Mary: Yes, they buy my cheese and butter but make—tell me will pay next week as now I have the electrical bill, all kind of excuses not to pay me. He told me, "Stish, why do you go and knock on doors to sell your wares? Why don't you go to the Johnson City Public Market?" Bay, I have never heard of that market—never had. He said, "Listen, I'll make a map for you." So he proceeded to take out his little book and on a piece of paper he drew a map with directions to get to the market. He said at the market people come to you, buy your wares and pay cash. I thanked him so next week not to go to my house customers, as I'll not receive any money, anyway. That night, I was telling my husband—the next week I will not go to my cheese and butter customers as Mr. Bay told me to go to the market—Johnson City Public Market. My husband replied, "Oh, you are foolish to listen to people—you got good customers—take care of them." I said, "What good are they? I never get paid for my labor—that's the business!” (Laughing.) Also, it just happened I was so fortunate to have a large crop of peas, such beautiful peas, that I picked two bushels, took along cheese, butter, etc., and was on my way to the market with my horse and wagon. I had no idea where I was going. I looked over the directions on Mr. Bay's map—up to Broad Street, Johnson City, straight through the tracks until I hit Main Street, Johnson City—there, directions continue—to ask someone for further directions to Johnson City Public Market. I rode, sure, as he instructed, not to Broad Street but Main Street—there I came upon a green light and stopped, not knowing which way to turn. A policeman across the road hollered for me to go on. I waved "No"—I really could not speak much of English. He came up to me and asked me, "What is the trouble? Why don't you go on?" I told him I didn't know where to go. He asked again, "Where are you going?" I said, "Johnson City Market." He then proceeded to tell me to go straight to the light—turn right—go a quarter block and then you will see the market. I did as he told me—arrived there—knowing it was the market when I saw the horses and wagons, as at that time we had no trucks or cars. I arrived at the front—seeing all the people—was a bit flustered—not knowing where to park my horse and wagon—as it was, here came Mr. Patterson, manager of market—he said, "Welcome, welcome new producer!" I didn't know what to tell him. He said, "Turn the horse around this way."  I said, "I can't, I don't know how." He said, "All right, you sit and I'll turn the horse around." I got down and waited. After taking care of the horse, he glanced at my wares and said, "Good! Good! Good!" Again, he asked, "Do you know how to sell?"  I said, "No." (Laughing.) He was very obliging—says, "Good.” He took some tags from his pocket—saw my peas and came around with a quart basket—says, "This basket is 18¢ a basket or 2/35¢.” All right, when I started selling—by Gosh! I couldn't believe the people at my stall—buying my wares—I couldn't keep up with all the customers—I didn't have to have bags as the people paid for my peas and told me to dump my peas into a basket they carried on their arm. I sold everything. The manager approached me and said, "Come again next week." "Good," I said, "I'll be back." I came back every week—brought anything I had to sell, and everything went and I received cash! I looked around and saw what people were selling to give me ideas. I just couldn't get over it—anything I brought in, it was sold for cash—nothing trust! I raised vegetables—vegetables, very little profit—yeah—too much work and not much good of it. I had vegetables like carrots, onions, beets, etc., on a bench—but being outdoors, they wilted in the sun. One summer day, a lady of 65 or more, who had a stall nearby came to chat with me. As we were talking, she pointed to my vegetables and said, "Lady, you had beautiful vegetables there but now they are wilted—people will not buy wilted vegetables.”  I answered, "What should I do?" "Forget the vegetables," she advised, "why don't you raise flowers?"  I replied, "Flowers! Who needs flowers?" I didn't believe her—she continued telling me that anyone who owned a home and had a small plot of land in back, they always grew vegetables for their own use, but flowers, they have no room to plant. If you sell flowers you will have a good business. I don't know how to go about this new venture. The lady proceeded to tell me that as soon as the snow melts in the Spring and the ground is not too wet—plant some sweet peas and they will grow nicely. I did just that. I wanted to buy flower seeds, my husband laughed and said, "Foolish lady, who is going to eat your flowers?"  I told him, “I'll try it.” (Laughing.) I spent one dollar on flower seeds. After a short time, I told my friend, “My sweet peas are growing so beautifully, such beautiful flowers, can't get over that. What shall I do with them? I don't know.” I had, at no time see arrangements of flowers. She replied, "What? Get scissors—cut them and make bouquets." I thought to myself—how do you make bouquets? The next time I went to the market, I cut some flowers, brought them in to the lady friend and again, asked her to show me how to make bouquets. She was very obliging—showed me the how to, and later said, “Use your head, too,” because if you make a beautiful bouquet you will have many sales, but if you just bunch them they will not be appealing and you will not have a sale. I tried the best I could—so, I continued to plant sweet peas—first a quarter pound, later one pound of seeds—I had flowers—but it was a job—especially the cutting and making bouquets. Now, I started to plant other flowers, even planted the flowers my customers requested. I tried. I noticed a seed catalog—I ordered flower seeds and had such a beautiful assortment of flowers. My customers were pleased—I had asters, zinnias, gladiolas, they didn't like the scent of marigolds. The glads—I had so many—but I sure found success with my flower sales. Many people did not believe me that I could earn more money at the market than the lady who works in a factory. I found if you have the will, strength, you can do very well. Nettie: Do you have to pay for your booth? Mary: Oh yes, we had a nice place now, the market was under cover—beautiful, lot of space, clean—we paid $12 a week but it was worth every cent—before that, we had a open market, that was free, then, they paid us $2.00 to come and sell—always reminded us to come back. As I said, after a while, George F. Johnson built a new market—we liked that very much as summer and winter it was a pleasure to be there. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, how did they sell meat? Did they come in with chickens, pigs? Mary: We sold many chickens—we never had less than 100-125 chickens sold on Saturday. We killed and defeathered chickens at home and at the market so dressed them as to customer's choice, whole—cut up—free service. Nettie: How much were chickens at that time? Mary: They were 35 cents—nice young fryers (4-5 pounds) at 48 cents a pound. Nettie: How was the meat business? Mary: I don't know—some brought in half a cow—cut into pieces—oh, yes, there was a Mr. Baxter, he had all kinds of meats—big place with about four people working there—all people lined up to buy—all sold by noon. Another man, Truman, sold lamb and calf. Nettie: Did you know to make change? Did you understand how to do that? Mary: Yes, Mr. Patterson showed me how—asked me where I would put the money and I told him in my pocketbook. He gave me a basket (quart), put a newspaper around—he said, "Don't put your money in pocketbook—put your money right here, because when people come up to you have chance to give change." He show me how, then I did like he showed me. He was a very nice man, nice person—he helped me—everything—he said, "When people buy from you, you have to be very nice to them. Always say, ‘Thank you.’” (Laughing.) He teach me—I don't nothing about anybody. (Laughing.) He said, "When anybody come to you—they buy from you—be very pleased—when you give change back—say, ‘Thank you—come again!’” That's what I did. But it was a nice place. Nettie: Any more interesting stories about the market? Mary: Lots of people come up—they find out market—little by little come up, lots of them. These days they was no cars—1921—they was no cars, everybody come up with team or one horse. Nettie: How did you get down in the winter? By sleigh? Mary: No, I just go with the market wagon—that's all—and wintertime, I go once a week. Nettie: Did you go, yourself or with your husband? Mary: No, he didn't want to go—I went myself. Nettie: You're the businesswoman. Mary: I did, sure! That's the first thing—you know. I say to my man, I say, the next week I go to the market because, I hear Mr. Bay, told me market people pay cash. He said, "Don't fool yourself, you got steady customers.” Yeah—those steady customers take everything but they got—nobody pay me a nickel. Well, I went like Mr. Bay told me, my man was so mad he no want to put—he no want to hook the horse to wagon. He put harness in—horse was a big one—I was short—I can't put harness—he put harness in—he don't want to hook horse to wagon because he said I should not leave my customers—but after that he don't say nothing—little by little— Nettie: He saw you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Yes, he find out I don't do nothing wrong. I know this Bay, he don't want me to go—I sell my peas—and for what I got them—I got the cash—I got $16—see, $16 I never see in years. I know my man, he was worrying—he got horses—they need—horses, when you go on field work—horses need oats—we had no money to buy oats. When I got this money I go home—farmer store and I stop and I ask the farmer store's man, I say, "Mister, I got one horse but want to buy a little grain for horses, anything I needed—can that not be too heavy for horse to go?" He said, "No." (Laughing). “How much do you want?" I say I want it, at least two bags—that's 200 horse feed. He said, "That's not heavy—at all—he can take a lots more." Then I take it—two bag horse feed, one bag cow feed, and I got myself pork loin, I like that, 12 cents a pound—he sliced for me, this storekeeper, then I pay everything cash and I come home. I got $4 cash—beautiful! Beautiful! When I got home, my man he said, "What you got in those wagon?"  I said, "Why don't you look over." He see, boy, he grabbed the bag—he said have to go on field—the horses don't have nothing to eat. Then afterwards, he don't say nothing to me. You wanna go—go—you wanna—go— Another thing, at old market there was a man from Owego, who sold all dressed chickens. I decided, I wanted to sell chickens, too. The next week I took with me a crate of live chickens—sixteen chickens in a crate. At the market, people went by, looked, said, "Nice chickens. Nice chickens," but were not buying my chickens—so, one of the following days, it was rainy weather and my husband could not work in the fields, told me he was going with me to the market, as company. He helped me bring out my wares plus the crate of live chickens. I am thinking all the time, I have such beautiful chickens, how can I make that chicken dead? (Laughing.) Nobody is buying my chickens. I am still thinking, thinking, and all of sudden, I got an idea. I looked around and saw my man talking, smoking, smoking—with a couple men. I took a market basket—they don't have that kind these days—and it, I put two roosters and a hen. I tied, covered the chickens so my husband would not see them. As I was leaving, I told my husband to take care of my business, and I'll be back soon. He told me to go—but asked "Where are you going?"  I told him I'm going to go on Main Street, but I didn't go on Main Street—I went to Mrs. Philipso. I arrived at Mrs. Philipso's and called, "Hey kuma, put a pot of water on stove." She then replied, "Do you want to take a bath?" (Laughing.) “No, just get a pot of water ready—I have some chickens here I want defeathered.”  She asked, "Who will kill the chickens?"  I replied, "I don't know," but we finally agreed that since both of us cannot do it, we asked the neighbor. She was obliging—"Get me the knife—I'll kill them." Finally the chickens were defeathered and I returned—to the market. I saw my husband as I left him talking with the men—I asked, "Did you sell anything?"  He replied, “No, no one stopped by." Now, I put my dressed chickens on the bench—still out in the open market. Before long, a Slovak couple come by and stopped to look at the chickens and asked if they were fresh—I said, "They are shaking—are warm." The lady answered, "My God, they are warm.” Man answered, "Oh, the sun warmed them." (Laughing.) I convinced them my chickens were fresh, so they bought the largest rooster for baking. I was beginning to worry if we’ll sell all the chickens, but as it was, another couple came along, another person came along, so within thirty minutes my dressed chickens were sold. I figured if they could sell dressed chickens inside the market I could sell outside, on the bench. Before long, the man from Owego—who had the dressed chickens—reported her to the manager—saying, “That lady is taking my business away—get rid of her.” In all fairness, Mr. Patterson replied, "Harry, you take care of yourself and she will take care of herself.” As time went by, my chicken business grew from twenty to thirty chickens every Saturday, also, kept growing to 120-125 chickens—at holiday time I included ducks, geese—at times we had to buy chickens to keep up. Finally, I had such a business, my husband wanted a picking machine but it cost $360—he figured if someone has one I'll have one—so with pieces of wood, metal, he made one of his own which worked beautifully. The chicken business was a lot of work and a lot of fun—so that was our life going to end—35 years at the market—from beginning to the last. Nettie: What was the year of the closing of the market? Mary: 1953. We sold our farm that year, as raising vegetables, chickens, glads were not necessary if I did not have a market to sell them at. When I sold glads—that alone was good money, but instead of selling each flower I made bouquets for $1.00—medium size 50 cents—people bought for cemeteries. I had beautiful flowers that I kept fresh in pails of water—people were standing in line to buy them. My flowers were sold every time but if had a few left, I gave it to people for their church. They were a good profit for me—I remember—year 1939—it was a fantastic year—sold so many chickens—assorted flowers—glads—gladiola sales alone, I made $135—was pretty good. I always kept track of my sales—always sold everything. Nettie: I must say—you were a good businesswoman. Mary: Oh yes. Nettie: How did you learn to be such a terrific businesswoman? Mary: I don't know! I had neighbors, Bobby, June, they grew many things in their garden. I like planting new things. I planted some new things that my neighbor planted. I don't see why I can't have new plantings even though my neighbor has. They asked me, "Where do you get all those things?"  I replied, "Where? In my garden—growing!" I saw different people asking at June's for rhubarb—I didn't want to invest in seeds, at first, so waited, thinking someone will give me some. One day my husband sent me to Union Center to buy seed because he was going to plant oats. I took my horse and wagon—along the way passed a farm that had a beautiful growth of rhubarb. A lady of the house was passing by—I called to her, "Hey, Mrs., I see you got very nice rhubarb." She answered in Slovak, "Oh, that thing—throw it out to the devil." I then asked, "Maybe, you could sell me some because I do not have any." The lady called her husband to dig out a clump. He did, put it in my wagon and told me to separate the roots, as they will grow thick. I had six plantings from that. Later on, I stopped at another farm—they, too, gave me rhubarb. I, sure, had a lot of rhubarb in my garden—by gosh—I had a lot of rhubarb. Boy! Oh boy! They call it strawberry rhubarb—the pink variety. When I saw the different interesting plants or vegetables—I always wanted to have them, too—I feel if I wanted to take the trouble to plant, take care of it—why not? I had everything! I loved to work—in Europe I remember when I was very young—I worked for a few pennies for this landlord—by gosh! Nettie: Did you sell jam at the market? Mary: No, no, no. At the beginning, I sold cookies—sugar cookies. Nettie: Did you bake them? Mary: Yes, you never believe it—25 pounds on Friday—I use everything for sugar cookies—they was 20¢ a dozen. (Laughing.) Honest to God—people stand in line—want a cookie—almost all lady in market, they ask me, "How soon you gonna have the sugar cookie?" That was lots of fun! Nettie: Did you make cakes? Mary: No, just cookies. They was not enough time—because every time our chicks were small—we had the small chicks, that needed attention, you have a little time so you have to work fast—we had the calves, chickens—so we had a lot of work—God knows. Nettie: Did you sell butter and cheese at the market? Mary: Oh—that just from in the beginning—because we had only three cows—we didn't have that much milk. Later, little by little we bought more cows—we had milk—the milkman picked it up—the milk—at beginning we didn't have that much—just enough to make cheese and butter. Oh yes, when I had her [daughter Nadine] 20th of May—Friday—I made 12 pounds butter and honest to God—20 pounds cheese—we had enough milk. My husband took it to the market—he sold it all. Nettie: You made a businessman out of him. Mary: Oh yeah, funny thing! Nettie: Do you have any more experiences? You did have many interesting experiences. Mary: Yeah. (Laughing). Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, Where did you go to school? Europe? Where did you get married? When you got married you probably went to work. Mary: When I was in Europe—we didn't have much schooling—my dad always said, "You'll never get bread to eat by going to school—you have to go out in the fields to work to have bread." I went to school—very little—they didn't give us a chance to go to school—Polish officials were against us—in attending school. Nettie: What did you learn? Mary: I learned Russian and Polish languages—we had to learn both languages. We attended school 8 to 11 in the morning. Later, work in the fields—that's all. [Interview #2: 20 June 1978] Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, will you continue telling me more about your life on the farm? Mrs. Fenson, let's go back to the flowers you used to raise on the farm—will you tell me more about it? Mary: Well, I raised just what I could sell at the market—see—various vegetables and anything that the customers requested, she accommodated them, and earned a good income. Nettie: You can go on. Did you ever have trouble with the disease that the gladiola had? Mary: No, never, because before you plant gladiolas you should soak them in the water at least 36 hours and then plant it. Nettie: Oh! first soak them— Mary: Oh, yeah—now people don't do that, but before, yes—uh—forgot what you put in the water—can't remember—-if gladiolas get the trips it is very hard to get rid of—just like if a person gets very ill and it is, is hard to get healed—from the trips— Nettie: Well, Mrs. Fenson, when you were on the farm, you told us the last time about how you used to drive the team of horses—did you ever learn to drive a car? Mary: No. Nettie: Did you ever try to learn? Did your husband teach you? Mary: Well, from the beginning we owned a truck. My husband said, "Why, the truck—let's buy a car.” He bought a car—Pontiac—nice car—brand new one. He told me, "Right away I will teach you and then you can drive a car.” All right, good—we bought a car—drove home to the farm and in the driveway—side of house—had to drive on the upgrade. He said, “Sit on this side, I'll tell you how to back out of the driveway.” I drove several feet—stalled the car—he said, “Oh! Oh! That’s all! You'll never learn to drive because if you gonna drive the car you gonna kill yourself—you gonna kill lots of people, you no good.” (Laughing.)  I was mad but they don't do no good—that's about how much I learned to drive the car. I asked, "All these years I used to go with the horses, now I can't go with the car.” He said, "You do not have any nerve to drive the car.” After that I just didn't want to learn anymore—there! As for being retired—we were not really retired that we wanted to—no—it was because my husband was very ill. What to do? Could not work in the fields or garden, noplace, because he was in the hospital most of the time. I got us thinking—to sell the cows and just live like that on the farm. So, we were going to live on the farm with nothing to raise, so we decided to sell the farm. We sold the farm, which is located across the road, and this land on which this house is built was empty—we decided to build a home on this land about the year 1953. Now we thought we could live fairly well, as they say, our business was in order, we saved a little money, no debts and just live—but then my husband started ailing—really ailing—and then just left me—passed away. Yes—it’s terrible—suffering—working—and then— [pause] He—if only he didn't smoke that much. He was a wonderful man—he wasn't a gambler, no drunk, no woman chaser, like they say, he was a wonderful man—he worked—did everything—did not have to have someone doing his work—just smoked endlessly since he was a young man. That's why he got emphysema and heart trouble, left everything. [Pause]. We also had a beautiful home in Florida—I thought that weather would agree with him—oh—but that did not help him. Nettie: Is the cigarettes that really got him? Mary: The cigarettes did that to him—the worst thing during the end, he had in the bedroom by the bed an oxygen tank—he had to inhale the oxygen in order to breathe—it was very difficult for me because he had to lie in bed and I had to apply this mask on him and see that he inhaled the oxygen, otherwise he would choke. That was really awful—God be with him—he just could not get well. Nettie: That's bad—cigarette smoking. I don't smoke—but many do and I don't think it is good for them. Mary: I have a daughter, Olga, I don't know if you knew her, she smokes constantly. I've talked, pleaded with her—nothing helps—just keeps on smoking—that's all. Nettie: Some people are like that. Mary: Yes, some men turn to smoking, some to drinking—you could live without this—live like God intended them to—but people don't look at it in that way. Nettie: I think if people want to indulge they can do so moderately. Mary: Oh—more I know—third of July will be 57 years that we came on this land—57 years. Nettie: Here on the farm? Mary: Yes—57 years. Here—the road—it was such a narrow road which was difficult to have two cars drive on it at one time—dirt road—no electricity—no, no, it was difficult living here. (Laughing.) We had kerosene lamps— Nettie: Where did you have the kerosene lamps? Mary: In the house. You put a kerosene lamp on a table and just sat around—there was no television, no radio, no nothing when we bought the farm, but we lived and everything was all right. Nettie: What did you do for water? Mary: Oh, we had a well near our house. We had to go out and pump our water when we needed water—see, in the house we did not have running water, only a well which you had outdoors to pump and get water. If I was in need of hot water, I had the stove with which I burned wood—that's how we got along. Nettie: That is a big change for people nowadays— Mary: Oh yes—nowadays—it is just like a day and night. People have all the conveniences—like washing machines, etc.—machines for everything—for people this is the life. I used a washboard. Nowadays, many people with conveniences tend to get lazy. Nettie: They don't want to work! No! Mary: I have an example. Look at my daughter, next door—she has a washing machine and dryer. Why does she have to pay for electricity for a dryer? Why, we have the beautiful outdoors where in no time her clothes can be dry and smell ever so sweetly—but no, she puts her clothes in one machine then another, that— (Laughing.) Nettie: This is an age of progress. Mary: Oh yeah, I didn't even have a decent electric iron to iron clothes—I only had a iron that you put on the stove, heated it and then did your, your ironing—heating constantly. Nettie: I had forgotten—how did you iron in those days? Mary: You took this iron—heated it—and with clamps you picked up the iron—then you iron. Nettie: This was a continuous heating? Mary: Yes, constantly. I had three of them heating—when one was cooled, you returned to the stove and took next one—you picked them up with a clamp that fitted on these irons. That's the way I ironed, but, you got used to it—that's all. Nettie: That's right. Mary: People have to get used to everything—if a necessity arises—people get used to it. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, did you ever do needlework? Mary: I did cross-stitch—oh, how I loved to do that. That is how I spoiled my eyesight—I always loved to do the cross-stitch. Nettie: What did you do? Mary: Oh, everything! Shirts—I worked cross-stitch on shirts which they used on theater plays on Baxter Street (St. Mary's Russian Orthodox Church). I really loved that type of needlework! Nettie: Yeah. Mary: Oh, needlepoint I didn't do that—crochet—I didn't do that. I didn't have enough nerve—you work, work, and nothing is appealing—but embroider-work, you have flowers, birds, etc. Nettie: Did you ever knit? Mary: No, cross-stitch is all I did—that was my life! Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, you must’ve been a pretty good baker. Did you make breads, cakes? Mary: Nothing much—I only made sugar cookies—cookies. Nettie: Oh yes. Mary: Other times—Friday was my day to bake cookies—I sold them on the market at 20¢ a dozen. Nettie: What kind? Mary: White sugar cookie—some people asked for molasses cookies, but it would not pay. I would make sugar cookies with lemon flavor—people sure loved them. I remember for a long time many elderly people would stop and ask, "When are you going to make cookies?" I told them, no more cookies—I had too much work in the fields. Later, we raised chickens, we had our own incubator for the chickens. When we came on the farm there was only one house and barn, no other buildings. Now we had a big new hen house, brooding house, raised own chickens, 3,000 of them, 14 cows. We had enough work—we had to milk cows— Nettie: Didn't you have any machinery? Mary: We had machinery at the time but did not have money to buy the machinery! All right—after a time we saved some money, were doing better. My husband said, "Now, let's buy a new machine." The machine cost $350—that is for a milking machine. It was wonderful—didn't need to milk by hand. All right, then came the harvest time—who is going to help you with the hay? My husband is older—cannot work—I could not do it—children scattered to many cities. So, again, who is going to work? At that point my husband decided, "Let us sell the farm." So, that is our retirement. There was no other way—before that, we were younger, able to work the fields or garden, milk cows, tend to the chickens, but after a person gets older, loses strength— Nettie: You should have had some help, right? Mary: My son-in-law worked in EJ until 4pm—later during daylight he would help my husband put the hay in bales, put it in the barn, and even on Saturdays and Sundays, he helped us. That's true, you can't find people to work on the farm, as industry is not too far off. They'd rather work in industry and not work such long hours on the farm. As I said, we finally sold the farm. My husband just did not want to along with the farm as, although we did get a nice sum for the farm, he started ailing. It was a constant procedure, to the hospital, home, operations, back and forth—back and forth. Must be that was our fate! It was bad, too—one of our daughters, Olga, had an operation—then the other daughter, Nadya, had an operation—they had appendicitis. Olga did not cost us too much but Nadya's operation cost quite a bit more as she had a rupture. She was in the hospital much longer. Nettie: Nadya—is that Nadine? I am Nadya, also. Mary: Yeah, that is Nadine. That is a beautiful name. When Nadya got ill they took her to the hospital. The doctor did not operate, at first, but told my husband it will cost you $500. We didn't have $500, so my husband went up to see his brother, Steve, for a loan. We paid the bill, doctor’s bill, at Lourdes Hospital. It was very hard for us to pay the hospital bill but the Sister of Lourdes Hospital were very sympathetic and made a deal. They told us, “You live on the farm, so try and pay us with produce, poultry and eggs—anything you can spare—in this way you can take care of the bill.” Nettie: This was a good deal because the hospital needs produce, chicken and eggs. Mary: Oh yeah, they always took 30 dozen eggs, 1 dozen cut up dressed chickens. They appreciated all this, as this is what they had to go out to buy, anyway. Nettie: This is a good example for this kind of barter now, since prices and taxes are so high. Mary: Oh no, not now—everything is different now—as day and night. People have changed—most are mixed up. (Sigh). Life has passed with all tribulations—as I said—times were tough, first one daughter had an operation, then the second daughter had an operation, and in 1940—all of sudden our house burned. Yeah, I was working with my daughter Olga in the garden and my husband was in the henhouse. I had not been in the garden very long when my husband yelled, "Ma, the house is on fire." Our garden was quite a ways from the house, therefore we did not see anything. Immediately, Olga ran up to the house and yelled, "Come on, come on!" I finally hurried to the house—by gosh, after we looked around the house was burning blaze. This was about 2pm. Nettie: What happened? Mary: Short circuit—what we had, everything perished. As for insurance, all we got was $500—because they had no fire stations, therefore we could not get more money. Nettie: What could a person do with so little as $500? Mary: That is right. We wanted to build a new home—but, what to do for money? Mr. Beckwith of Beckwith Lumber Company was also a person who was sympathetic to our needs. When he heard of our bad luck he came to see us. He asked, "Simon, do you have enough insurance?" My husband replied, "I hate to tell you we have only $500."  He said, “You can't too much with $500, but don't worry—find yourself a carpenter, have him measure how much lumber, etc., is needed and notify me. Everything will be taken care of.” That is exactly what we did, and the next day a truck from the lumber company arrived with the lumber. (Laughing.) We bought our lumber from Beckwith's during the years, whether to build a barn, henhouse, and paid our bills well. We eventually built our new home and paid our bills—somehow God sent us strength and business was good at the market—whatever we brought, we sold everything! It was just good luck—although everything was perished in the fire, but God gave us strength to work so that we came out—all right. Nettie: I think Mr. Beckwith was a good man to do that for you. You could see that he had a lot of respect for you—knowing you will pay your bills. Mary: Yeah, Yeah. Nettie: Nowadays situations are different. You would not find anyone who would trust a person like that. Mary: That is right, if you live a honest, clean life, people don't forget. Nettie: That is true, that is true. Mary: It will be 57 years that we lived on the farm—on July 3 or 4 was Sunday and people celebrated Monday. It was so cold— Nettie: 57 years ago? Mary: By gosh, when we moved up on the farm from Binghamton we had no lights, we could not see anything. I couldn't see my husband and he couldn't see me. (Laughing.) Here we wanted to connect our stove, but since we couldn't see what to do we decided to do just—wait until morning. The next morning we connected the stove, put the coal on the wood, and were warmed up—it was so cold that whole week that we thought we would have a frost—July 1920. Even with all of life's tribulations—if I had to relive my life, honest to God, I would relive it the same. Nettie: You would relive your life the same? Mary: I would relive it. If God told me to relive what I had been through, I would! Only give me back my strength—I just love to work in the fields, in the garden—that was my love, the outside, to work. I'm not like the ladies who get together for a coffee klatch or the ones who get together for bridge—theirs is a different life—I loved the outdoors. Sometimes, during the winter weather the snow was so high, you could not see very far, my husband would start off for the woods and say, "Do you think you could leave the children alone and go to the woods and help me?" (Laughing.) We had about 35 acres of woods—you could get a lot of lumber out of them—but some of the trees needed a cross-cut saw, so I would go with my husband and help to hold the saw as he cut the lumber. Nettie: Did you go out in the bitter weather? Mary: Sure, I'd put on boots and go in the deep snows. When you are out in the snow you don't realize you are cold—because you are working. When times are tough you get used to do everything. Nettie: I think when you are in the woods or working in the garden it gives you such a peace of mind—such a peaceful atmosphere! Mary: Yeah, while my husband is cutting the wood I'm piling the wood—helping him in any way I could. We worked all the time—we had enough of wood for our home use. We had a country schoolhouse down the way to which we sold several cords of wood, too. Nettie: Do you still have it? Mary: No, no, we sold it with the farm—that's all. We sold everything with the farm but two acres—there it lies dormant—I can't work it anymore—the land is idle—when I was able to work I had everything, raspberries, vegetables, etc.—even flowers. Here we get a lot of traffic passing our home, we were able to sell all of our produce and flowers. Now, I look at the idle land—I can't walk— Nettie: It must make you feel bad, doesn't it? Mary: It hurts. It pains me to know you have the land but I can't walk, I can't even bend—it's right there—you can't get to it—I see it—that's all. I've been to many doctors—upper body is fine but my feet and knees, arthritis. I have X-ray after X-ray, but it does no good because all they tell me is I have bad arthritis. I know all of this and it is frustrating. You could have all the money in the world, but, if you don't have good health—it is not good. My husband tried to see that all of our debts were paid, we saved a little money, and since our children have grown up, married and moved to distant places, we would just enjoy life together—but look what happened. He became ill—very ill—left this world—that's all—only I am here—left alone on this earth—that's all. (Laughing.) We came to live on this road 57 years ago—this road leading to the airport. No one is left—they have all passed away—only I am still living. Oh no, there is one man, a Slovak man who lives in a small white house near the school. His name is Valenta. Nettie: We were talking about the holy day called Troitsa. Do you recall how they celebrated that day? Mary: Our church parishioners go to the cemetery on that day to have services, memorial services for the deceased of the parish. Many of the people put branches on the graves to commemorate the day. Nettie: Do you remember how they used to decorate the homes on that day? Mary: Yes, Yes everybody had branches of trees on the doors, windows on that holy day, Troitsa. They also strewed large blades of greens—someone told us it is called cattails—on the floors. In Europe they used to bring large trees and dig them in the ground around the doors—greens everywhere—every niche in the house, roof, etc. Nettie: What was the reason for that? Mary: It was a such a holy day that they all did that and believed in it, I don't understand. (Day of the Holy Spirit). Also, on that day we used to go to the marshes to pick the cattails which grow there. This Troitsa (Pentecost) is a big holy day and I also, remember when I was a young girl in Europe we used to make bouquets of cattails, greens and May flowers. All girls of my age, we took the bouquets to church—filing in twos we would walk down the aisle and have our bouquets blessed by the priest. Also, another custom was celebrated 3-4 weeks later on another holy day was, we made wreaths and also took took them to church to be blessed and then, about a week later, about of August 19 we took fruits of all sorts to be blessed—thanking God for a good harvest of fruits. Nettie: What place did you come from, Mrs. Fenson? Mary: Austria. Nettie: Austria—that must have been on the border of Poland or Russia. Mary: Yes, on the border of—uh—Wolynskia Gubernia [Volhynian Governorate]. Nettie: Was the name of the town? Mary: Selo Wisosko was what it was called—we call it Brody. Nettie: My father was from that city. Mary: You mean it?! (Laughing.) The Wolynski boys used to come to our town, just to our neighboring selo [town]. They said they liked when the Wolynski boys came because they were nice gentlemen who brought candy, cigarettes, tobacco, and even brought liquor. (Laughing.) The Austrian girls made pirohys, so there was always a party. Nettie: Mrs. Fenson, thank you very much for telling me more of your life and experiences—I really appreciate it. Mary: You are welcome. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mrs. Mary Fenson (née Mary Pyluck) Subject The topic of the resource Fenson, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farms--Interviews; Johnson City (N.Y.); Pentecost; Beckwith Lumber Co. Description An account of the resource Mrs. Fenson continues to talk about her life on a farm in Johnson City, NY and the day a fire destroyed her home and how the Beckwith Lumber Co. assisted in rebuilding. She also discusses the customs of her culture on Pentecost (Troitsa). Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 21; Recording 22 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Fenson, Mary ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-25 ; 1978-06-20 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:56 Minutes ; 47:18 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0b036aa709027d62ffc94983e980e496.mp3 0a72b745cf136821f127f2341fc6852a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-03-03 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:02 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55919">Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus</a> Subject LCSH Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 3 March 1978 Jenny: I came here in 1914, I was about 12 years old and I came to Ellis Island. They kept me there for three days until my aunt put up a $500 bond for me— Anna: Go on. Jenny: —Then I came here, then I went to school for a while and I liked it, and I said, “I'm going to work for Endicott Johnson,” and I started working. I was 14 years old in E.J., then I went to the cigar factory for $2.00 a week, and I was doing a little housework for 50 cents a week and it was, kind of hard, so then—what do you want me to say? Anna: Where. Jenny: I worked in the shoe factory, then when the work was slow I went to the cigar factory. It wasn’t hard to get a job. When it was bad in the cigar factory we went back to the shoe factory and work like that, and I was young, I got married and then I had the children one after the other, but I was working in E.J. Anna: How many children did you have? Jenny: Four children, and well, we had to go to work for 8 and 9 dollars a week. That, and then my husband died, I was 28 years old and I had 4 small children, then I was working, and then I got so sick that the doctor put me out from the factory, and so I make a living home. I had baseball players, roomers, and took care of the kids on the street, and made a living like that, and everything. I was a widow for 14 years, and I got married again, and then I had operations, one after the other, and have half of my stomach out and all those things, and a Pacemaker, and now they took my both feet off, amputated, and I—one was maybe below the knee at two year ago. And a year ago they had to take the other one off, so I am in a nursing home paying $2500 a month. Is it going? Anna: Yes, go on. Jenny: It was kinda hard and it is hard now, I had one boy that was killed in 1942, in a car accident with another boy, and then my other son died, was 49 years old. I have one son in Arizona. A daughter is here living on Front Street, and she's not well either, she don’t come up to see me much, she can’t. And well, I'm in a bed most of the time, and in a wheelchair. They put me on about 1:30 and then I stay in the wheelchair about 2 hours or so, and then they put me back in bed, and so I'm in bed most of the time. Anna: You were saying that you liked sports. Jenny: Baseball. I used to have the baseball players living up to my house, and I used to cook for them and do their washing, and then they had a write-up about the baseball park, how they—once in a while I went to the ballgames, and they had fights there. And wrestling, I used to like to go and see that, and I play Bingo a lot. Even we play Bingo every Monday here. (Cough). Anna: And when you were young, what did you do for amusement? Jenny: I didn't have time, I had washing and then ironing to do all the time. Anna: Did you ever go dancing? Jenny: No, I didn’t. I would sneak out and I went to Bingo. Anna: Did you ever go to Ross Park, or to the band concert? Jenny: No, I didn't have time for that. I used to play Bingo. I used to take care of the children and the chickens, and garden and canning, all day. Anna: How much did you can every year? Jenny: About one thousand quarts, everything from the garden—pear trees, cherry trees. Anna: That’s the way people lived those days. Jenny: Yes, those days that’s the way you did. We didn't make much money. It was better for me to stay home than have somebody to take care of the children and I every way, different ways. Anna: Your children are all grown up, anyway. Jenny: Now, yes, one son is in Arizona, going to have open heart surgery, yes, and I don’t know when, maybe next week, someday. Anna: Could you remember, think of anything else? Jenny: No, was busy all the time with cooking and baking, and I worked in the Johnson City Legion for about seven years, had had charge of the kitchen there and I worked there for fifty cents an hour. Anna: Can you think of anything else? Jenny: No, that’s it. Anna: Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jenny Tokos Gaidorus Subject The topic of the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Johnson City (N.Y.); Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Medical care Description An account of the resource Jenny Tokos Gaidorus talks about immigrating through Ellis Island and then moving to Johnson City, NY where she worked in a cigar factory and the Endicott Johnson Corporation. She discusses being a widow and raising her children alone. She supported herself by renting rooms in her house to baseball players. She discusses her medical conditions and operations she underwent, which resulted in moving into a nursing home. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 25 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gaidorus, Jenny Tokos ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-03 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 24:02 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/d99e75132b2956762a3e55c4a95bf017.mp3 6f0dfd0c70baf7a6ee0a9c6f387b1f38 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gallagher, Susie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1978-05-18 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 20:57 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55922">Interview with Susie Gallagher</a> Subject LCSH Gallagher, Susie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Teachers -- Interviews; Gasoline pump industry; Automobile industry and trade; World War, 1939-1945; Blittzen Station Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Susie M. Gallagher Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 18 May 1978 Susan: Mrs. Gallagher, could you start telling us a little something about your parents, where they came from, and some of your earliest recollections of your childhood and, ah, continue with where you went to school and so forth? Mrs. Gallagher: Well, I was born in my great-great-grandfather’s home. Five generations of my family have lived in that house, and he came originally from Nantucket Island, from there to the city of Hudson and from there to the—to the Dunham Hill Road, and bought up a large tract of a timber land, virgin timber, because he knew all about ship building, and he had grown-up sons to help him cut the trees, and he hewed them out and had them shaped just ready to go into the ships that was being built, and he established a quite a business for himself making the shingles and the little things called shooks that they put together shipboard to put the whale oil in. And  when he first went there the neighbors around helped him build a log house because there had, nobody ever had lived there, and later on the land became cleared and he built a New England-style house—salt box shaped which was, ah, to me a very charming place, and ah, I feel that I had such a happy childhood. No Queen of England could have enjoyed it more than I did, but now it's all grown back up to timber again. It's all woods almost everywhere. The house is still there but it looks like a junk pile and there is another small house has been built in the rear of it and it's a place that I don't even like to look at anymore. That's what, ah, evolution has done to that place. Susan: Mrs. Gallagher, let's continue and tell us what it was like when you were a little girl growing up in that home on Dunham Hill Road that your hus—that your father built for you. Mrs. Gallagher: Well, I'll tell you what it was like in the wintertime. In the wintertime we practically lived in the kitchen. It was a large kitchen. It had a lounge in it. It had a built-in bookcase with drawers below that, and it also had a recess in the wall that the clock fit into. And we had a—to go down cellar, we had a, I guess it's called a trap door. There was a big iron ring in it, you pulled that door up and went down cellar that way, but also there was a—a cellar entrance outside that was called a cellar hatchway and, ah, that was used in the summertime. Now what else was there? Susan: About your summer kitchen. Mrs. Gallagher: Oh, then there was a walk led from the kitchen door out to a—a porch that went into a summer kitchen. It was quite a large building. It had, ah, in it, everything. It had a, a good iron range. It had a, almost like what we'd call a kitchen cabinet now, all made by hand where you put the—the cornmeal and the flour and the, all of those things, and the cupboard—a tall cupboard that stood on the floor. It had a long, ah, what's called a dry sink. It was wood but it was a long sink, you could set your dish pan and other things into it, and it had a spout that you could turn the water off if you wanted to and it would go outside if you'd want it to, it would go outdoors. We also had a grandfather clock in that summer kitchen, and just as soon it got warm at all, we moved out there to cook and eat there all summer long, and we put a carpet on the floor of the kitchen in the house and used that for a sitting room in the summertime. But we had a very nice parlor and it had small panes of glass, and when my son saw the picture he said, “Oh, we have twelve over twelve.” That means twelve panes of glass over twelve panes of glass, which was considered, ah, high class on the island of Nantucket. He was—he was so thrilled when he saw that, and well, there was a cupboard—a little bedroom, right near the head of the stairs there was a little bedroom. The roof slanted in it and you could go in there, turn around, in the corner there was a window and then there was a cupboard built in there of shelves and below that a cupboard with a door, and the handle on the door was made of scrimshaw. Scrimshaw is what the sailors made out of ivory when they were on the whaling voyages, and it's a hand that’s clasping a little, a round stick, and when our old home was sold I took that off and I now—it is now in my son Wendell's home on a corner cupboard that he has. Susan: Tell us what you did when you were a little girl. How many people lived in that house with you? Mrs. Gallagher: Well, when my mother was married and went there my great-grandfather had passed away, but his daughter who had lived with him was still there, so she had the parlor part of the house and the bedroom upstairs, and my mother had the kitchen and the pantry and a bedroom and the small bedroom upstairs, that part of the house, and I can't even remember Aunt Elizabeth because I wasn't old enough when she had a slight stroke and she went right back to Hudson because she wanted to be buried where her mother was and her—the rest of her family in Hudson. Susan: Now getting back to, ah, Broome County here on Dunham Hill Road. What was life like for you then? Mrs. Gallagher: It was a mile to walk to the school. You had to go up a hill and then it was a long stretch, it was nice and level, then you went down a little hill and up another hill, then there was a level stretch and you went up another hill, all that, on the way to school. The school house was a—a very nice building. It was one room, of course, but it had a separate hallway for the girls on the left side, on the right side was a hallway for the boys. Then there was a circle seat between those two closets or hallways, whatever you call them. Susan: How many classes did they have? Mrs. Gallagher: How many what? Susan: How many grades? How many grades did they have? Mrs. Gallagher: Oh—in a country school you had everything from the baby class to the graduation class, all grades in a country school, and 26 families sent their children to that school, and we had very very nice teachers and that is why I wanted to be a teacher. I admired those teachers so much I said, “I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a teacher,” and I stuck to it and I taught for six years in Johnson City and I taught a couple years in a country school and I didn't like the country schools—too hard to teach all those grades. Susan: Where did you receive your schooling? Mrs. Gallagher: I went to Binghamton Central one year. I went to Johnson City High School two years, and then I went to a teachers’ training school and then— Susan: Where was that located? Mrs. Gallagher: That was located in Whitney Point, and then I went to Cortland summer school and I had just passed Regents Examinations, until I obtained a State Certificate, the last one that ever was issued. I came in under the line. So, well—we, in our family there were two boys, then two girls, and then two boys, and we all left home, it seems, when we were about 18 years old, you know, when we left, and it's hard to keep young people on the farm. They had bigger ideas, but we all loved to get back there. There were so many nice things on that farm. There was a pond. There was a spring, and when my father was a young man he had made a terrace around, all around the edge of that, and we could sit on that and always put frogs in it. We always called it the frog spring. Then there was a fence, a cow pasture fence, and the spring continued on under that fence where the cows and horses came to drink. Susan: Well, can you remember what you did for your social life when you were a young girl growing up on the farm? Mrs. Gallagher: Well, then when I got older we went to Castle Creek. We had lots of parties in Castle Creek and we went to the Baptist Church in Castle Creek, but there were a lot of girls in the country school, you know, that we enjoyed, so we had plenty of social life. Susan: Well, now tell us about how you got into that business with your husband. Mrs. Gallagher: Oh, on the corner down here? Susan: Uh huh. Mrs. Gallagher: Well, if I even, when I passed by that old hotel on the corner of Front and Prospect St., which I always had to go by when I came to Binghamton, if I ever could have dreamed that I'd ever have lived in that place I would have said you’re out of your mind, but I lived there twelve years and a half in a very nice apartment over the business place which went from a used car business— Susan: Well, let's—let's mention here that it started out as an Inn before you had purchased it. Mrs. Gallagher: Oh, uh huh. It—it was a very old—a very old hotel. It was famous, you know, probably it was well over a hundred years old, you know. It was an old building—the only thing I remember hearing about it was there was a man there, a proprietor named Cap Hasley, and I guess “Cap” meant “Captain.” They always called him “Cap Hasley.” Maybe some people living that would remember—still remember something about it, but it had a “For Sale” sign on it, so Mr. R.J. Bump bought the place and set my husband up in business there. It was planned for selling used cars. They put in one gas pump in there, because people, ah, needed the convenience, and surprisingly they sold a lot of gas, and it, eventually they gradually went out of the used car business and put in more pumps and they were in the gasoline business. Susan: Well, then it prospered until the highway came along. Mrs. Gallagher: Then it was a very good business for a long time, until the highway was changed and they took the old Prospect St. out entirely and the service station was gone. Then my husband died and my son took over the business, but they—they built a smaller station because when the—when the government took over the property, they left a little piece of land in there shaped like a piece of cheese. No access to it in any kind of a way, but my son and I finally decided that the smartest thing to do would be to buy more land in there and build a smaller station there, which is what we did, which is now there at the present time. Susan: That's called the Blittzen Station. Mrs. Gallagher: Well, my husband named it the Blittzen Station years ago when he first started, the name has been kept. Susan: Well, tell us about your family. How many children did you have, Mrs. Gallagher? Mrs. Gallagher: Well, my father’s name was Robert Stevens Hall and my mother's name was Lucy Mirrah Howard and they met in the country school, and when they were married my great-grandfather had passed away and his daughter was still living there, so she had part of the house and my mother shared a part of the house with her and, ah, she had a stroke, a slight stroke, which worried her, and she just made plans to go as fast as she could, get there out to the city of Hudson, where her sister lived and where her mother was buried, and she died there. Then my father bought the place. Did I have my father's name in there? Susan: Hall, wasn't it? Mrs. Gallagher: And eventually they had six children. They had Harry and Claude, then they had Susie and Marjorie, and then they had William and Ray, and that was my family. Susan: Now how many did you and Mr. Gallagher have? Mrs. Gallagher: Well, I married Robert J. Gallagher and we had three sons. Our oldest son, Robert, was killed in the South Pacific in the Second World War, and my three sons were all in the War in 1942, all three of them, and one was crossing the Atlantic chasing subs, the other was over in the Pacific and he was stationed in Australia quite a while. Well, when it was all over and they came home my son Gordon decided he'd be a dentist, so he went to college in Scranton and five years in the University of Buffalo. And my son Wendell went to Syracuse University Art School. He graduated with the highest honors in the class, but he found that there wasn't much of any way to make a living in that line so he went to work for his father, and after his father passed away I inherited everything, but I finally gave the Front St. business to my son Wendell, which he is still carrying on. Susan: Well, thank you very much, Mrs. Gallagher, for the interview. It has been nice talking with you. Mrs. Gallagher: I've enjoyed it. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Susie Gallagher Subject The topic of the resource Gallagher, Susie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Teachers -- Interviews; Gasoline pump industry; Automobile industry and trade; World War, 1939-1945; Blittzen Station Description An account of the resource Susie Gallagher discusses her childhood and the family home she grew up in. She mentions becoming a teacher and taught school for several years. She and her husband purchased an inn and converted it to an automobile dealership and then to a gasoline station, known as the Blittzen Station. She also talks about her three sons who served in World War II. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 26 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gallagher, Susie ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-05-18 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 20:57 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/87ed9fdce623c4a63ee05dcd361a6d5f.jpg 07197e87f19bc3e6d8086a6f4f2bf605 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/cf046d8614425cdedfc4caedea4295e0.mp3 a1b73960d267b156d6d9784eb6ebfea7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gallo, Barbara Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-01-24 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:15 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55925">Interview with Barbara Gallo</a> Subject LCSH Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Barbara Gallo Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 24 January 1978 Dan: OK, Barbara, will you relate to me the life and working experiences of your father and uncle from the time of their immigration to the retirement in the community? Barbara: My uncle Nick Gallo came over here in 1889 at the age of 19 years and he landed in New York and stayed there for a few months and then went to Scranton, PA, where he went into the, ah, stone cutting business with Mr. Frank Carlucci, who did a lot of work like that, and ah, one of the buildings that they, ah, were contracted to build was the new, the Courthouse, which now stands, ah, since the old one was burned own and Uncle Nick was the foreman on the job and, ah, I'm not certain whether he did much of the cutting there, but ah, later on, ah, then, ah, my dad, who was also had the trade as a stonecutter, ah, worked on the Press Building. On the doorway, and also, ah, did the work on the lions’ heads that are way up almost to the top of the building there, and his pay at that in those days was around $7 a day, which was quite high, and Uncle Nick, ah, after, gave up the work of stonecutting and married, ah, my Aunt Gussie Arrigoni, who owned a small store in the Moon Block, which was across from the Arlington Hotel. Then in 1914 he started this bank which was chartered by the State of New York—it was more of a savings bank than a commercial bank, which we now know. Ah, it was primarily for Italian immigrants—they had, ah, great trust in my uncle and would ask him to hold their money for them, and so with this he formed this bank, and then I guess he had the bank for about 12 or 14 years, and in 1926 he retired to Italy and gave up most of his assets that he had here, with the idea of staying, remaining in Italy. Then he did return to, ah, the United States, into Binghamton—he was involved politically with, ah, Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the State of New York at the time, and he did much in the way of getting people to, the Italian citizens here to get out and vote so they would exercise their American citizenship, and he was, ah, a member of the Elks Club at the time and also ah Knighted by the King of Italy in, after, ah, World War I for his, whatever help that he contributed at the time towards—what would you say?—a better world, anyway, and then, ah, in 1930 or something he retired again. Dan: Did he do anything when he came back after— Barbara: No, he remarried. He was retired—it was only, you know, politically, ah, involved. Dan: Politically involved—in other words, in 1930 he just, ah, severed all relations entirely. Barbara: With the business. Dan: OK. Barbara: But he did have, also, at the time that he had the bank, he did have a wholesale grocery and, ah, this steamship agency, which, when he did retire, turned the steamship agency over to my dad, Michael. Ah, Michael came here in the later 1800s, around 1896 or so, and he worked, as I say, on the Press building there, but then— Dan: When did—he came directly from Italy to Binghamton? Barbara: No, he went to Scranton also. Dan: Oh, he went to Scranton and worked for the same contractor your uncle did? Barbara: Umhm. Dan: Then the reason he came to Binghamton was the Press building job? Barbara: Right, right, but because of the—he had to give that up because of, ah, physical, ah, ailments that he acquired through, I guess, ah, the dust from the stone there, I suppose. Dan: Right. Barhara: He then gave that up and, ah, returned to Italy for a matter of just probably a couple of years or so, and he came back here in 19, ah, 1915, I believe it was. He married my mother, Rose Arrigoni, and they together had this wholesale grocery, and after a few years he was able to, ah, put aside some money and built the building there on Fayette Street, and they moved their grocery store over to that building there and that’s where it remained for about 40-some years, and together with that he had this steamship agency and the money exchange, which was a great help to the Italian community at that time. Mother, although she was American born, was very fluent in the Italian language and, ah, was often used as an interpreter for a lot of these Italian people—especially like going to the doctor or for legal purposes. Many times she would go to the, ah, where they would get their citizenship and, ah, help them in that way and explaining things to them, and she was quite active in church too. Which, going back to my Uncle Nick, was instrumental in getting the Italian, ah, Church of St. Mary’s of the Assumption here, ’cause there was a need for it at the time, see, and this community was increasing and therefore they, ah, worked with some other Italian people and was able to get the church started here. Dan: Now you mentioned, ah, Barbara, that your Uncle Nick married your Aunt Gussie— Barbara: Arrigoni—there were two sisters married to two brothers. Dan: That’s what I was going to ask you—two sisters married two brothers, and was Gussie a native of the United States, or was she born— Barbara: She was, she was the only, ah, the only child that was born over there—all the rest of the Arrigonis. Dan: Oh, she was born over there. Barbara: Yes, but she came here like two years old or— Dan: Oh, I see. They got married here, though? Barbara: Yes, yes, they were married here. Dan: And Rose was your, ah, was your mother—ah, she had her own store, her own business, is that right? Barbara: No, no, my Aunt Gussie. Dan: Oh, Gussie, Gussie had it. Barbara: Gussie had a candy store—they made candies and things. That’s where I guess they used to see each other. Dan: But she gave that up when—ah, did she retain that when your uncle had the bank? Barbara: No, no. Dan: She gave that up? Barbara: Then they had a child. Dan: I see. Barbara: She was, you might say, more or less retired in that business there. Dan: I see. So your dad, primarily, outside of the job he did on the Press building, did most of his—most of his time in the wholesale, in the retail— Barbara: Eventually went into the retail business because he used to go around as a wholesaler, he used to supply, ah, some of the restaurants and even places out of town with Italian food. Dan: Uh huh. Barbara: Like macaroni, which were all imported, and he did have his own brand on the merchandise—tomatoes, macaroni, and oil—called Gallo brand, which represented the—the label was a rooster, which meant Gallo. Dan: I see. Barbara: And he used to have that for quite a few years. Dan: And your dad retired at what age, Barbara? Or what year, do you know? Barbara: He retired about the age of 82. Dan: About 82. Barbara: About 82, because he was sick for about 8 years. He was 90 when he died. Dan: And how old was your uncle when he died, remember? Barbara: My uncle was 83 and he died around 1954 in Italy—he retired, he was there when he died. Dan: Oh, he went back to Italy then. Oh, then he died over there. Barbara: Ah, in, after WWII, 1942 or 1943, when the war ended, his daughter, who had resided there in Naples, Italy, came back here and, ’cause they were on in years and, ah, ah, she was wanted her parents to be with her, and it was so logical for them to go there, so they gave up their home here and retired there, and the only—my aunt died the same year, I think. Dan: Oh, is that right? Barbara: Over there, and my uncle died the following year. Dan: Oh so your Aunt Gussie is, ah, and your uncle are buried over in Italy. OK, now you say your dad worked on the, your uncle worked on the Courthouse as a foreman, and of course I guess they, prior to that they had a fire at the Courthouse. Barbara: I believe it was sort of a wooden structure in the early times. Dan: Something like that—I saw a picture of it in the Susquehanna this past week or so, and ah, I suppose it had to be restored. Barbara: Like the columns and all are, see, are all stone, and they needed to be shaped. Things, I don't believe, in those days, were brought in already made. Dan: No—true, true. Barbara: ’Cause, ah, like I say, my dad always talked about the work on the Courthouse. ’Course he did other work, you know, in other places. This was one of his pride and joy, I guess, and ah, like grapes around the archway, and then up above are the lions’ heads, which are rather large and he had to do it up there from a solid piece of granite. Dan: Yeah. Barbara: And, ah, it was all done on scaffolding, which they had to put up. Dan: So it’s all by hand. Barbara: All by hand and chisel. Dan: Gee. Barbara: It was their trade from Italy and their reason for coming here was just, ah— Dan: How long did it take him to complete that archway on the Press building? Barbara: It took him about four months to complete that archway on the Press building. Dan: You don't know how long, as far as the lions’ heads—it probably took longer to do that. Barbara: Oh, it was longer than that, because like you say, they, ah, just, they were, if you could see them, their fangs or whatever they had are real long, like the length of an arm. Dan: Yeah, yeah, uh huh. Did he work on any other Kilmer property at all? Barbara: I don't recall—-ah, this was just, you know, what they would tell us from time to time. Dan: Uh huh. And your dad took over the steamship agency and the money exchange from your uncle after he retired, and the bank was just closed. Barbara: The bank had to be dissolved. Dan: Yeah, yeah, OK. Now the, in the building of St. Mary’s Church of the Assumption—ah, that, of course, was a National church, and your uncle was instrumental in getting that started. Barbara: In getting that started. Dan: As a fundraiser, or— Barbara: As a fundraiser and in other ways, you know. Dan: This is going back before your time, Barbara—you don't know who built the church, do you? Barbara: You mean, you mean, ah, the architect? Dan: Yeah. Barbara: No, I don't off hand. Dan: Yeah, Father Pelligrini was the first Pastor. Barhara: The first Pastor, and remained so until 1951, I believe. He was the one and only man and the Italian community used to, ah, hear Mass with him as Pastor down in the basement of St. Mary’s on Court Street until our church was finished—completed—but there was, way back, we used to have what they call the August 15th celebration, which for St. Mary’s, which was a fundraising thing. It was known throughout the Southern Tier. Dan: You mean the Bazaar? Barbara: Well, it wasn’t really so much a bazaar as it is now. Dan: It was the Feast of the Assumption. Barbara: It was a feast, but it was called a Field Day. Dan: Oh. Barbara: And it was done out and they used to have people from all over come, and fireworks and things, but it was primarily a fundraising to help complete the cost of the building. Dan: Is there any occupation in particular that the, ah, Italians indulged in more than anything else? Did they have a particular trade that they brought over with them? I mean, in other words— Barbara: You mean the Italians. Dan: The Italian community, in other words. Barbara: Most of them were contracting. Dan: Contractors. Barbara: Must have been the majority of them were contractors—that was what they knew best. Dan: Yeah, it seemed to be that barbering was quite a popular trade too in Italy, because a lot of the barbers that I know and acquainted with have all been Italians. Barbara: There were probably a lot of cities like, you know, they learned that trade, of course there’s a lot of roadways in Italy and they were good at it. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Barbara: As a matter of fact, like, ah, Dad’s uncle and his dad were, ah, worked on the Amulfi Drive in Italy, which is famous now. Dan: Where is that? Is that in Salerno? Barbara: It runs along the, along the coast of Italy. Sorrento all the way down, I don't know exactly where it starts—it’s below Naples somewheres it starts. Dan: I see. Barbara: And it’s all along the mountainside. Dan: I see, and you say it's famous, you say, for what particular reason? Barbara: Because of the way it’s built. Dan: Oh, I see. Barbara: It’s sheer mountainside and there isn't much room for cars to go through, especially the present day cars. If there are two cars coming, one will have to back down. Dan: In other words, it was built for a horse and buggy. Barbara: Probably, but it overlooks the ocean—you can see that. Dan: Now you spoke of an uncle—ah, how many brothers were there in the family? Barbara: Now I'm not certain of it, I thought there, ah, I thought they said there was ten brothers. Dan: Ten—large family—and were they all stonecutters? Barbara: Now are you referring to my dad's family itself, or just uncles? They started, but the uncles, his uncles. Dan: Oh, it started with his uncle, I see. Barbara: And his father. Dan: How many, how many worked on the roadway of the family, including not just brothers but also relatives of your uncle? Barbara: That I don't know. Dan: Yeah. Barbara: That goes back quite a way. Dan: But you say there was ten in your uncle’s family or your dad’s family. Barbara: My dad's father had quite a few brothers. Dan: Oh, I see, I see. Barbara: But my dad's family, there was three brothers and five sisters, and they all came, all but one, one brother, immigrated to the United States. Dan: Is that right? Barbara: And one to South America. Dan: Were they all stone masons, stonecutters? Did they all take up that same trade? Barbara: That was a trade there. Dan: Yeah, yeah. OK, well is there anything else that you can add, Barbara, looking over your notes, you might have overlooked? Barbara: This is all, like I say, just what we can remember from their talking about it at times. Dan: Now the bank was located where, ah? Barbara: Ah, at 168 Henry Street. Dan: 168 Henry, and ah, your dad's grocery store was on Fayette Street, right? Barbara: At two different locations. The final one was where he remained for forty-some years. Dan: In other words, the one that is standing now at 9 Fayette Street. Barbara: I think for the, ah, they did quite well, considering, you know, ah, you might say the handicap at first, you know—the language—but my Uncle Nick, ah, spoke English well. They were both educated, I mean, they had as far as high school in Italy. Dan: When your uncle was Knighted, that gave him a title? Barbara: Gave him a title of Cavalier, which at that time was quite something to have. Dan: Yeah, did you tell me what year that was he was Knighted, Barbara? I don't know whether I have that down here or not. Barbara: It was after World War, World War One.  Dan: WWI. Barbara : Umhm. Dan: So it was after 1918, 1919, yeah. Barbara: They had quite a banquet there for him—some of the civic leaders there, which was nice, but Uncle Nick was a great help to the, ah, as I say, the Italian community. Dan: Well that’s good, I mean when the immigrants came over, you know, and especially, you know, don't know the language, why it’s nice to have somebody they can fall back on. Barbara: Dad, during the Depression, was a great help to people, because they were in need and many, many times he, ah, would let them, you know, run up bills because they just didn't have the funds. Dan: Sure. Barbara: And people were very good—they trusted him and then they appreciated it, and ah, I have even people now that come, sometimes I meet them and they'll, you know, have a great fondness for my dad. Like I say, he helped them when they needed help, which is a sort of joy for me to hear that, you know, he is still remembered in that way. Dan: Right, right. Barbara: I think that was when he was 90, but I don’t know what else. Dan: OK, Barbara, well I certainly appreciate your taking your time out to be interviewed. Would you like me to run it back for you? Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Barbara Gallo Subject The topic of the resource Gallo, Barbara -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants; Italians -- United States; Binghamton (N.Y.); Stone-cutters; Grocery trade; St. Mary of the Assumption; Harvey Hinman; John Mangan; Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents; Press Building; Broome County Courthouse Description An account of the resource Barbara Gallo discusses her father's and uncle's emigration from Italy, their moves from New York City to Scranton, PA and their work as stonecutters on the Press Building and the Broome County Courthouse. Her uncle established a private bank primarily for other Italian immigrants and a steamship agency to aid immigrating Italians. She details her uncle's return to Italy and his later re-immigration to Binghamton, NY where he became politically involved with Harvey Hinman and John Mangan, Chancellor of the New York State [Board of Regents]. He worked with Italian immigrants assisting them with voting, and was instrumental in establishing St. Mary's of the Assumption. He later retired and returned to Italy. Gallo's father established a wholesale grocery store and later took over the steamship agency. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 27 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gallo, Barbara ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-24 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 34:15 Minutes