82 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/700d46c7b2085059bad4b15fbd0ab276.mp3 65c5acf1f8e2bc78b63b26283013f24c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Armenian Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource This collection includes interviews in English with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Armenia.  The interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Armenian culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Armenia.   Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright.  Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 3/29/2016 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gregory Smaldone Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lori Keurien Alonso Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:37 Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information. Biographical Text <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Lori grew up in Long Island with her younger brother and Turkish parents. As a child, she attended church regularly and spent her summers at Armenian camp, Camp Nubar. Currently, Lori is an attorney by profession in Manhasset, NY, and has two children. "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">Lori grew up in Long Island with her younger brother and Armenian parents. As a child, she attended church regularly and spent her summers at Armenian camp, Camp Nubar. Currently, Lori is an attorney by profession in Manhasset, NY, and has two children. Keywords <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Turkey; Armenian genocide; church; Camp Nubar; Sunday school; traditions; gender roles; Armenian language school; diaspora "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">Turkey; Armenian genocide; church; Camp Nubar; Sunday school; traditions; gender roles; Armenian language school; diaspora Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Armenian Oral History Project Interview with: Lori Keurian Alonso Interviewed by: Gregory Smaldone Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty Date of interview: 29 March 2016 Interview Settings: Manhasset, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:02 GS: This is Gregory Smaldone with the Binghamton University, Armenian Oral History Project, being worked on through the Special Collection’s Library at Glen G. Bartle Library, Binghamton University, Would you please state your name, age and a little bit about yourself for the record? 0:17 LA: Lori Keurian Alonso. I am fifty-seven years old soon to be fifty-eight. I am a resident of Manhasset, New York. I grew up in Long Island and have essentially been in New York my whole life. I am an attorney by profession. 0:35 GS: Wonderful, were your parents or their parents immigrants to this country? 0:40 LA: My father was born in Turkey, and came here when he was two years old. And my mother was born in this country? 0:49 GS: What about her parents? 0:50 LA: My grandparents, my mother’s parents were both from Sebastia which is known as Sivas in Turkey. So they were both from there and my father’s parents were also born and raised in Turkey. 1:05 GS: Were your mother’s parents fleeing the genocide when they immigrated? 1:09 LA: My mother’s parents definitely were fleeing the genocide and essentially both my grandfather and my grandmother lost virtually every member of their family. And, in fact, my grandmother is my grandfather’s second wife. My grandfather lost his first wife and a two year old infant son in the genocide. 1:30 GS: Can you tell us, and you said you grew up in long Island? 1:34 LA: Yes. 1:35 GS: Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood? Do you remember what your goals and aspirations were? 1:40 LA: Well I mean I grew up in Plainview, Long Island. It was a new community. There were not a lot of Armenians there. In fact I think there was maybe one Armenian family in Plainview. And I had you know my aspirations were to go to college and I was not sure if I wanted to work, own a bookstore, maybe be a nurse, maybe be a teacher, but you know grew up in a very sort of middle class environment in Long Island. 2:09 GS: Okay, you said there were not a lot of Armenians growing up, what was your kinship group mainly? Did you hang up with Armenians, with non-Armenians, or some combination of both? 2:17 LA: So, in my neighborhood my closest friends in my neighborhood were all non-Armenians. My parents started taking me to Holy Martyrs Armenian Church in Bayside which is about forty minutes away from where I lived with traffic when I was five years old. So I had a connection to Armenians from Sunday school, but then when I was 12 years old my parents sent me to an Armenian summer camp, sleep away summer camps. 2:46 GS: Camp Nubar I am assuming? 2:48 LA: Camp Nubar, AGBU camp Nubar up in Andes, New York. And from the time I was twelve, through the time I was eighteen I spent my summers up at Camp Nubar developed very, very close Armenian friendships. So I would say growing up although I had my non-Armenian friends in my, you know, immediate neighborhood, I did have a lot of Armenian Friends because of my camp connection. 3:12 GS: Okay, did you attend Armenian day school or Armenian language classes as a child? 3:18 LA: I attended Armenian language classes only for about a year when I was younger. My father was involved with it for a little bit of time and I did go but that stopped. We ended that and I really was just going to Sunday school every Sunday and I graduated from that Sunday school. 3:37 GS: Did your parent speak Armenian? 3:39 LA: My parents understood conversational western Armenian. They spoke it a little bit. They spoke it. They could speak it a little bit and interestingly, I think that my mother’s Armenian got better when she was older because we ended up having some relatives marry into the family who spoke Armenian and you know one relative was Greek. She was Greek Armenian and they could not communicate with her unless they spoke Armenian. So, and she married my uncle. So my mother’s Armenian actually got better when she got older. 4:17 GS: Did you have siblings growing up? 4:19 LA: I have one younger brother. 4:20 GS: Do you think it was important to your parents that you and your brothers speak Armenian growing up and it was an aspiration that never materialized or do you think that it was not something that was overly important. 4:31 LA: I do not think that speaking Armenian was overly important. It was very important for us, my mother and especially my mother wanted us to maintain our Armenian heritage and our Armenian religion but the language part was not as critical to her. 4:51 GS: Okay, you said you attended Sunday school weekly. Can you tell us a little more about that? 4:57 LA: So, the church that I went to, as I said was in Bayside, New York, and it was started, I think in the late fifties. And it was, it was started by you know a group of Armenians in the area and every Sunday we would go to Sunday school and there was a fairly large group of kids being brought there and we were segregated by grade and taught either there was a program, we would taught certain aspects of the religion. There was also some cultural aspects included in there. And you know it was a time really to connect with Armenians each Sunday. 5:40 GS: Where would you say was the main social space for the Armenian community growing up, that you grew up there? 5:45 LA: For me, for me my main social space was my family because my father had two brothers who married Armenian woman. And my mother only had one brother who never got married but, so we were primarily with my father’s family. They all lived within fifteen to twenty minutes of us. And we got together every week, every other week, so I had my Armenian relatives which were a big part of my growing up and also my camp Nubar friends were a big part and when I was not quite as interested in going to Sunday school until I started going to Camp Nubar Because once I started going to Camp Nubar then going to Sunday school became most like a camp reunion. So I got much more interested in the Sunday school after I started going to Camp Nubar. 6:32 GS: What kinds of Armenian Traditions did your parents try and bring in to the household to maintain the heritage? 6:40 LA: Well, first it was taking us to Sunday school, every Sunday. We had some traditions with the holidays, so on Easter my mother would always dye the eggs and we would play the egg-cracking contest and you know my mother was really forceful in to the extent she heard anything about Armenian throughout the world she would talk to us about it and bring it up to us and she told her family’s story often to us so that that was embedded in our memory ironically her father rarely talked about it. So my grandfather who suffered terribly was pretty quiet about by my mother was the voice was telling us what happened. 7:31 GS: Could you share with us a little of her stories? 7:34 LA: So, from my mom’s side Sebastia was where as I said my grandmother and grandfather were from, and that was an area very very hard hit from the genocide. And my grandparents as many ended up having to ̶ they called it the death march. They had to basically walk from Sebastia and ended up walking through the desert which my understanding is that my grandfather’s first wife and baby died somewhere in that and they ended up in Syria. And my grandfather actually met and married, became very close with my grandmother and married my grandmother in Syria. So she was his second wife. My grandmother says we heard a little bit more about my grandmother’s side. And it sounded like my grandmother pretty much lost her parents, her uncles and aunts pretty quickly but that there were six of the siblings on the death march. And in the end three died and three survived. So I think on the death March part the six siblings they lost half of them, but I think they lost everyone else. You know very early on the death march. And my grandfather lost everyone. The only person who survived in my grandfather’s family was his brother who had come to the United States years before. 9:00 GS: Can you tell us a little bit about your parents and what was their level of education, what were their occupations and how did they delegate roles to each other within the household? 9:09 LA: So, my father did not graduate high school. He ended up leaving high school a little early. And he was a printer by trade. You know part of it was that he needed to help support the family. My mother graduated high school in the Bronx but then went immediately to work as a legal secretary and my parents met and married a little later than people did during that time often in my parent’s time people married in their late teens and early twenties. My father actually ended up going into Arizona for seven years to help with his younger brother who was very, very sick with Arthritis. He moved with his brother to San Arizona for seven years to help my uncle got better so when my father came back that was when he met and married my mom so my mom was twenty-six, my dad was thirty-three when they got married. So they were a little bit older than the typical people getting married at that time. 10:18 GS: Okay, what were their roles in the household when you were growing up? 10:21 LA: So my mom was stay-at-home mom till I was about twelve. My father worked. He worked various shifts as a printer sometimes he worked they day shifts, sometimes he worked the night shifts, sometime he worked what we call the lobster shift which is midnight to seven in the morning. So his shifts varied depending on the needs of his company. My mother went back to work when I was twelve. She never worked more than, she worked full time but it was always within a few miles of the house. So she was always at home at five o’clock. You know basically put dinner, made dinner, put dinner on the table and was pretty traditional, a pretty traditional mom for that time. 11:07 GS: Okay, let us move on to as to your family now, can you tell us about your children’s, your husband’s etc.? 11:15 LA: Sure. So, I am married. I married a non-Armenian. I will tell you that I did try to marry an Armenian. It was important to me. And I spent time you know attending various Armenian events etc. to try to find somebody but it did not happen for me. So I ended up I did marry a non-Armenian. My husband was very open from the beginning that he was completely amenable to me raising our kids Armenian. And so, that we got married in an Armenian church. We did have our children, our children were baptized and christened in the Armenian Church. I have a boy and a girl. And I have, I took them to the same church that I grew up in and they attended Sunday school essentially from the time they were eighteen months old until seventeen. 12:04 GS: Did you ever have your children attend Armenian language classes? 12:08 LA: I did not have them attend Armenian language classes. I would have loved to have done that, but the truth of the matter is I really did not speak it and my husband did not speak it. I felt that it was a little, it was going to be difficult to have them go and require them to go when I could not contribute and help them learn it. The other thing was that I felt more comfortable with the Sunday school because that was what I had gone through. And it was very difficult to ask these kids go to school seven days a week. It was just very difficult to do. 12:43 GS: So it was important for you that they speak Armenian but it was not practical? 12:47 LA: I would say yes. I also thought it was a little unfair to me to say it is important to you to speak when I did not speak. I just did not think it was fair. 12:56 GS: Was it important for you to pass on your Armenian heritage to your children? 13:01 LA: It was very, very, very important for me to do that and it is not easy. It has not been easy. Part of the reason I moved to Manhasset was because there are a lot of Armenians in Manhasset. And I thought that would help make it easier and in some ways it made it a little easier because as I said when I grew up I was the only Armenian in my town. Here kids who say they are Armenian, the other kids are not looking at them and think it is a disease, they know what it is and in fact in my kids grade, my kids are now in the twelfth grade, they are graduating class of 2016. There are two hundred seventy-five kids and there is eleven of them are Armenians. So, it is actually a percentage of the graduating class is Armenian. 13:42 GS: That is wonderful. Other than Sunday school what are some ways in which you tried to pass on your Armenian heritage to your children? 13:51 LA: So, I did send them to Camp Nubar also which is the camp that I went to. I cannot tell you that they had the same affinity for it. They like it but, I loved it and it became really a part of my being. So I sent them to Camp Nubar. I also took them to Armenia. So I took them with my husband and another Armenian family. And we went to Armenia two…three years ago for two and half weeks during the summer at which time we did some touring and we did some service with the hope being that it would instill in them a true connection to Armenia even though my family was from Turkey, I feel a complete affinity towards Armenia. 14:41 GS: Okay, let us see ̶ what does, how would you define being Armenian both personally and in a general sense? 14:49 LA: So I consider being Armenian a privilege and a responsibility. I feel like it is something so special that connects me to an incredibly rich ancient past and the responsibility part of it is that I feel responsible to help keep that rich ancient past available and open for the future. So I, and I feel like it is a bit of icing on the cake. You know there is a culture in this country and there is a way of living and a way of thinking and this community and this identity has provided me with feeling a belong ̶ a sense of belonging that I have not felt in any other respect. 15:46 GS: Okay, what are your thoughts on the Armenian Diaspora? Do you feel like it has its own separate identity? Do you feel like it is an aberration of history? Do you think it is a permanent entity? 15:57 LA: The diaspora is something that concerns me a bit. I think that, I felt one way about it maybe forty years ago and a little bit different about it now. I am concerned that the Diaspora is not going to really thrive and survive within the next you know maybe two to four generations. I think that the assimilation is going to really decimate it. And so my view is that for the Armenian people to survive and thrive I think that it is incumbent on every Armenian diaspora to support the country of Armenia. 16:44 GS: Where do you see the Armenian Church’s role in maintaining the Diaspora? 16:48 LA: I think the Armenian Church’s role is important. I think it is very important. I have always considered it our government in exile but I am concerned that the church is not addressing, what I think are really the pressing issues and I am concerned that in the end although I think they really play an important, I am not sure they are going to end up doing what they need to do. 17:21 GS: Could you go back and talk about your parents a little bit, how have they been cared for as they aged? 17:26 LA: So, my ̶ I guess I wanna add one thing. We did not really talk about my father’s side too much and quite frankly he was the one that was born in Turkey. And the only reason I do not talk about him as much is that my grandfather who lived in Turkey actually worked for the Turkish railroad and he was the story in our family is that he was warned a head of time about what was about to happen and that he was able to get his entire family out. So brothers, sisters and his own mother, So my great grandmother, I mean it was unheard of to have somebody in that generation really survive but my grandfather got apparently whole family out without having to do the death march. I think they really ended up probably taking the train to Ankara and then went on to France and, you know, went then to the United States. So, my father’s side did not suffer in the way that my mother’s side suffered. They have to leave the homeland, they have to leave everything behind and they definitely lost some family members but they did not suffer in any way of the same way as my mother’s side who lived in more of the interior. So how are my parents taken care of? My father past away twenty years ago at the age of seventy-six. He died in his home in long Island and he got sick and passed away within six weeks. So there was really not you know my mom was able to take care of him and I was there and my brother all of us were there to care for him. My mother is now ninety years old and she lives on her own. And she lives by herself in an apartment and still drives. And is self-sufficient. So, quite frankly I have not had to take care of her. Yes. 19:19 GS: Would you say her independency is important to her? 19:21 LA: Her independency is critical to her wellbeing. 19:24 GS: Do you think that ̶ why do you think that is? 19:27 LA: Well, I think that she does not have a large family because you know her side most of them were killed and she only had the one brother who never married. She does not have a large family. She does not have a lot of friends, and her independence is what gets her out. So, she feels that if she were not, if she were not able to drive and get out that she would be in her apartment alone and that that would be something she would not wanna do. I do not live that close to her that I can just pop in and out. And my brother does not live anywhere near her. So she would be alone and she does not wanna, you know that is something that something she does not want to deal with. 20:18 GS: How is growing up with your parents altered your perception of traditional gender roles of society today? 20:26 LA: My mother, I would say, I feel like my mother was a really good role model for me. Although she was in some ways a traditional mom early on she did go to work. And so, that is really my recollection is of her working and being in the home. I also know that although I said my mom was a legal secretary from early on. She actually dabbled in several things. She probably would have been a slight rebel in her time, she worked on during the war, during World War II, she ended up working with radio transmitters and was doing that a little bit and you know she actually told me that if she could have she probably would have gotten in the motor cycling and driven out west because she wanted to see what the country was like and so she had a sense of adventure that I thought was fabulous. 21:23 GS: Okay, how do you feel about the way gender roles are structured today in the society? 21:30 LA: I think that, I think that they have changed somewhat for what I considered to be the good. I think that in the traditional Armenian home years ago you know you had the mom at home, the dad working. There was this, you know I think really set roles and that is certainly not in my family. I mean quite frankly in my family I was the major breadwinner. I recently left my job but for the vast majority of my marriage I have been the primary breadwinner. My husband works but I was as an attorney, making more money than he was. And my husband has been really great about sharing the responsibilities of child rearing, of taking care of the home. He worked fifteen minutes from the house I worked an hour and a half away from the house. So, if the kids were sick at school, he went and got them. He was the one who relieved baby sitter at night. So, I think it has changed tremendously. 22:36 GS: How do you feel that Armenian organization? Do you feel that there is a distinction within the Diaspora between Americans of Armenian decent and recently emigrated Armenians from Turkey or Armenia? 22:51 LA: Yes, and I think that part of it and I do not know if I am right or if I am imagining it but I sense that there is a feeling among the Armenians who have recently come from the other side whether it is Turkey or Armenia or the Middle East. I am jealous because they speak Armenian fluently whether it is Eastern or Western Armenian. They speak Armenian fluently. And I have a sense that there is a feeling that if you do not speak Armenian, you do not read Armenian, you do not write Armenian, I have a sense that the American Armenians who do not read, write and speak Armenian are not considered as Armenian as they are. And I think that this is something that is a little bit of a gap. 23:46 GS: What role do you see Armenian organizations in America they are trying to bridge that gap? Do you think they are doing a good job of doing that or do you think they are generally appealing to one or the other group? 24:00 LA: Um, I do not necessarily see them trying to bridge it, I am not sure it is even, I am not sure it is acknowledged. Again, I do not know if this is just my perception. So I am not even sure it is acknowledged. What I sense is that with the Armenian organizations that I am associated with I mean I think that there is you know just a thought ̶ I am not sure if it has been swept under the rug actually. It might be. I am not sure I see it being addressed. 24:31 GS: Okay, well. That is all the question we had, thank you so much for your time. We very much appreciate it. 24:36 LA: Thank you. (End of Interview) Armenian Oral History Project Interview with: Lori Keurian Alonso Interviewed by: Gregory Smaldone Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty Date of interview: 29 March 2016 Interview Settings: Manhasset, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:02 GS: This is Gregory Smaldone with the Binghamton University, Armenian Oral History Project, being worked on through the Special Collection’s Library at Glen G. Bartle Library, Binghamton University, Would you please state your name, age and a little bit about yourself for the record? 0:17 LA: Lori Keurian Alonso. I am fifty-seven years old soon to be fifty-eight. I am a resident of Manhasset, New York. I grew up in Long Island and have essentially been in New York my whole life. I am an attorney by profession. 0:35 GS: Wonderful, were your parents or their parents immigrants to this country? 0:40 LA: My father was born in Turkey, and came here when he was two years old. And my mother was born in this country? 0:49 GS: What about her parents? 0:50 LA: My grandparents, my mother’s parents were both from Sebastia which is known as Sivas in Turkey. So they were both from there and my father’s parents were also born and raised in Turkey. 1:05 GS: Were your mother’s parents fleeing the genocide when they immigrated? 1:09 LA: My mother’s parents definitely were fleeing the genocide and essentially both my grandfather and my grandmother lost virtually every member of their family. And, in fact, my grandmother is my grandfather’s second wife. My grandfather lost his first wife and a two year old infant son in the genocide. 1:30 GS: Can you tell us, and you said you grew up in long Island? 1:34 LA: Yes. 1:35 GS: Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood? Do you remember what your goals and aspirations were? 1:40 LA: Well I mean I grew up in Plainview, Long Island. It was a new community. There were not a lot of Armenians there. In fact I think there was maybe one Armenian family in Plainview. And I had you know my aspirations were to go to college and I was not sure if I wanted to work, own a bookstore, maybe be a nurse, maybe be a teacher, but you know grew up in a very sort of middle class environment in Long Island. 2:09 GS: Okay, you said there were not a lot of Armenians growing up, what was your kinship group mainly? Did you hang up with Armenians, with non-Armenians, or some combination of both? 2:17 LA: So, in my neighborhood my closest friends in my neighborhood were all non-Armenians. My parents started taking me to Holy Martyrs Armenian Church in Bayside which is about forty minutes away from where I lived with traffic when I was five years old. So I had a connection to Armenians from Sunday school, but then when I was 12 years old my parents sent me to an Armenian summer camp, sleep away summer camps. 2:46 GS: Camp Nubar I am assuming? 2:48 LA: Camp Nubar, AGBU camp Nubar up in Andes, New York. And from the time I was twelve, through the time I was eighteen I spent my summers up at Camp Nubar developed very, very close Armenian friendships. So I would say growing up although I had my non-Armenian friends in my, you know, immediate neighborhood, I did have a lot of Armenian Friends because of my camp connection. 3:12 GS: Okay, did you attend Armenian day school or Armenian language classes as a child? 3:18 LA: I attended Armenian language classes only for about a year when I was younger. My father was involved with it for a little bit of time and I did go but that stopped. We ended that and I really was just going to Sunday school every Sunday and I graduated from that Sunday school. 3:37 GS: Did your parent speak Armenian? 3:39 LA: My parents understood conversational western Armenian. They spoke it a little bit. They spoke it. They could speak it a little bit and interestingly, I think that my mother’s Armenian got better when she was older because we ended up having some relatives marry into the family who spoke Armenian and you know one relative was Greek. She was Greek Armenian and they could not communicate with her unless they spoke Armenian. So, and she married my uncle. So my mother’s Armenian actually got better when she got older. 4:17 GS: Did you have siblings growing up? 4:19 LA: I have one younger brother. 4:20 GS: Do you think it was important to your parents that you and your brothers speak Armenian growing up and it was an aspiration that never materialized or do you think that it was not something that was overly important. 4:31 LA: I do not think that speaking Armenian was overly important. It was very important for us, my mother and especially my mother wanted us to maintain our Armenian heritage and our Armenian religion but the language part was not as critical to her. 4:51 GS: Okay, you said you attended Sunday school weekly. Can you tell us a little more about that? 4:57 LA: So, the church that I went to, as I said was in Bayside, New York, and it was started, I think in the late fifties. And it was, it was started by you know a group of Armenians in the area and every Sunday we would go to Sunday school and there was a fairly large group of kids being brought there and we were segregated by grade and taught either there was a program, we would taught certain aspects of the religion. There was also some cultural aspects included in there. And you know it was a time really to connect with Armenians each Sunday. 5:40 GS: Where would you say was the main social space for the Armenian community growing up, that you grew up there? 5:45 LA: For me, for me my main social space was my family because my father had two brothers who married Armenian woman. And my mother only had one brother who never got married but, so we were primarily with my father’s family. They all lived within fifteen to twenty minutes of us. And we got together every week, every other week, so I had my Armenian relatives which were a big part of my growing up and also my camp Nubar friends were a big part and when I was not quite as interested in going to Sunday school until I started going to Camp Nubar Because once I started going to Camp Nubar then going to Sunday school became most like a camp reunion. So I got much more interested in the Sunday school after I started going to Camp Nubar. 6:32 GS: What kinds of Armenian Traditions did your parents try and bring in to the household to maintain the heritage? 6:40 LA: Well, first it was taking us to Sunday school, every Sunday. We had some traditions with the holidays, so on Easter my mother would always dye the eggs and we would play the egg-cracking contest and you know my mother was really forceful in to the extent she heard anything about Armenian throughout the world she would talk to us about it and bring it up to us and she told her family’s story often to us so that that was embedded in our memory ironically her father rarely talked about it. So my grandfather who suffered terribly was pretty quiet about by my mother was the voice was telling us what happened. 7:31 GS: Could you share with us a little of her stories? 7:34 LA: So, from my mom’s side Sebastia was where as I said my grandmother and grandfather were from, and that was an area very very hard hit from the genocide. And my grandparents as many ended up having to ̶ they called it the death march. They had to basically walk from Sebastia and ended up walking through the desert which my understanding is that my grandfather’s first wife and baby died somewhere in that and they ended up in Syria. And my grandfather actually met and married, became very close with my grandmother and married my grandmother in Syria. So she was his second wife. My grandmother says we heard a little bit more about my grandmother’s side. And it sounded like my grandmother pretty much lost her parents, her uncles and aunts pretty quickly but that there were six of the siblings on the death march. And in the end three died and three survived. So I think on the death March part the six siblings they lost half of them, but I think they lost everyone else. You know very early on the death march. And my grandfather lost everyone. The only person who survived in my grandfather’s family was his brother who had come to the United States years before. 9:00 GS: Can you tell us a little bit about your parents and what was their level of education, what were their occupations and how did they delegate roles to each other within the household? 9:09 LA: So, my father did not graduate high school. He ended up leaving high school a little early. And he was a printer by trade. You know part of it was that he needed to help support the family. My mother graduated high school in the Bronx but then went immediately to work as a legal secretary and my parents met and married a little later than people did during that time often in my parent’s time people married in their late teens and early twenties. My father actually ended up going into Arizona for seven years to help with his younger brother who was very, very sick with Arthritis. He moved with his brother to San Arizona for seven years to help my uncle got better so when my father came back that was when he met and married my mom so my mom was twenty-six, my dad was thirty-three when they got married. So they were a little bit older than the typical people getting married at that time. 10:18 GS: Okay, what were their roles in the household when you were growing up? 10:21 LA: So my mom was stay-at-home mom till I was about twelve. My father worked. He worked various shifts as a printer sometimes he worked they day shifts, sometimes he worked the night shifts, sometime he worked what we call the lobster shift which is midnight to seven in the morning. So his shifts varied depending on the needs of his company. My mother went back to work when I was twelve. She never worked more than, she worked full time but it was always within a few miles of the house. So she was always at home at five o’clock. You know basically put dinner, made dinner, put dinner on the table and was pretty traditional, a pretty traditional mom for that time. 11:07 GS: Okay, let us move on to as to your family now, can you tell us about your children’s, your husband’s etc.? 11:15 LA: Sure. So, I am married. I married a non-Armenian. I will tell you that I did try to marry an Armenian. It was important to me. And I spent time you know attending various Armenian events etc. to try to find somebody but it did not happen for me. So I ended up I did marry a non-Armenian. My husband was very open from the beginning that he was completely amenable to me raising our kids Armenian. And so, that we got married in an Armenian church. We did have our children, our children were baptized and christened in the Armenian Church. I have a boy and a girl. And I have, I took them to the same church that I grew up in and they attended Sunday school essentially from the time they were eighteen months old until seventeen. 12:04 GS: Did you ever have your children attend Armenian language classes? 12:08 LA: I did not have them attend Armenian language classes. I would have loved to have done that, but the truth of the matter is I really did not speak it and my husband did not speak it. I felt that it was a little, it was going to be difficult to have them go and require them to go when I could not contribute and help them learn it. The other thing was that I felt more comfortable with the Sunday school because that was what I had gone through. And it was very difficult to ask these kids go to school seven days a week. It was just very difficult to do. 12:43 GS: So it was important for you that they speak Armenian but it was not practical? 12:47 LA: I would say yes. I also thought it was a little unfair to me to say it is important to you to speak when I did not speak. I just did not think it was fair. 12:56 GS: Was it important for you to pass on your Armenian heritage to your children? 13:01 LA: It was very, very, very important for me to do that and it is not easy. It has not been easy. Part of the reason I moved to Manhasset was because there are a lot of Armenians in Manhasset. And I thought that would help make it easier and in some ways it made it a little easier because as I said when I grew up I was the only Armenian in my town. Here kids who say they are Armenian, the other kids are not looking at them and think it is a disease, they know what it is and in fact in my kids grade, my kids are now in the twelfth grade, they are graduating class of 2016. There are two hundred seventy-five kids and there is eleven of them are Armenians. So, it is actually a percentage of the graduating class is Armenian. 13:42 GS: That is wonderful. Other than Sunday school what are some ways in which you tried to pass on your Armenian heritage to your children? 13:51 LA: So, I did send them to Camp Nubar also which is the camp that I went to. I cannot tell you that they had the same affinity for it. They like it but, I loved it and it became really a part of my being. So I sent them to Camp Nubar. I also took them to Armenia. So I took them with my husband and another Armenian family. And we went to Armenia two…three years ago for two and half weeks during the summer at which time we did some touring and we did some service with the hope being that it would instill in them a true connection to Armenia even though my family was from Turkey, I feel a complete affinity towards Armenia. 14:41 GS: Okay, let us see ̶ what does, how would you define being Armenian both personally and in a general sense? 14:49 LA: So I consider being Armenian a privilege and a responsibility. I feel like it is something so special that connects me to an incredibly rich ancient past and the responsibility part of it is that I feel responsible to help keep that rich ancient past available and open for the future. So I, and I feel like it is a bit of icing on the cake. You know there is a culture in this country and there is a way of living and a way of thinking and this community and this identity has provided me with feeling a belong ̶ a sense of belonging that I have not felt in any other respect. 15:46 GS: Okay, what are your thoughts on the Armenian Diaspora? Do you feel like it has its own separate identity? Do you feel like it is an aberration of history? Do you think it is a permanent entity? 15:57 LA: The diaspora is something that concerns me a bit. I think that, I felt one way about it maybe forty years ago and a little bit different about it now. I am concerned that the Diaspora is not going to really thrive and survive within the next you know maybe two to four generations. I think that the assimilation is going to really decimate it. And so my view is that for the Armenian people to survive and thrive I think that it is incumbent on every Armenian diaspora to support the country of Armenia. 16:44 GS: Where do you see the Armenian Church’s role in maintaining the Diaspora? 16:48 LA: I think the Armenian Church’s role is important. I think it is very important. I have always considered it our government in exile but I am concerned that the church is not addressing, what I think are really the pressing issues and I am concerned that in the end although I think they really play an important, I am not sure they are going to end up doing what they need to do. 17:21 GS: Could you go back and talk about your parents a little bit, how have they been cared for as they aged? 17:26 LA: So, my ̶ I guess I wanna add one thing. We did not really talk about my father’s side too much and quite frankly he was the one that was born in Turkey. And the only reason I do not talk about him as much is that my grandfather who lived in Turkey actually worked for the Turkish railroad and he was the story in our family is that he was warned a head of time about what was about to happen and that he was able to get his entire family out. So brothers, sisters and his own mother, So my great grandmother, I mean it was unheard of to have somebody in that generation really survive but my grandfather got apparently whole family out without having to do the death march. I think they really ended up probably taking the train to Ankara and then went on to France and, you know, went then to the United States. So, my father’s side did not suffer in the way that my mother’s side suffered. They have to leave the homeland, they have to leave everything behind and they definitely lost some family members but they did not suffer in any way of the same way as my mother’s side who lived in more of the interior. So how are my parents taken care of? My father past away twenty years ago at the age of seventy-six. He died in his home in long Island and he got sick and passed away within six weeks. So there was really not you know my mom was able to take care of him and I was there and my brother all of us were there to care for him. My mother is now ninety years old and she lives on her own. And she lives by herself in an apartment and still drives. And is self-sufficient. So, quite frankly I have not had to take care of her. Yes. 19:19 GS: Would you say her independency is important to her? 19:21 LA: Her independency is critical to her wellbeing. 19:24 GS: Do you think that ̶ why do you think that is? 19:27 LA: Well, I think that she does not have a large family because you know her side most of them were killed and she only had the one brother who never married. She does not have a large family. She does not have a lot of friends, and her independence is what gets her out. So, she feels that if she were not, if she were not able to drive and get out that she would be in her apartment alone and that that would be something she would not wanna do. I do not live that close to her that I can just pop in and out. And my brother does not live anywhere near her. So she would be alone and she does not wanna, you know that is something that something she does not want to deal with. 20:18 GS: How is growing up with your parents altered your perception of traditional gender roles of society today? 20:26 LA: My mother, I would say, I feel like my mother was a really good role model for me. Although she was in some ways a traditional mom early on she did go to work. And so, that is really my recollection is of her working and being in the home. I also know that although I said my mom was a legal secretary from early on. She actually dabbled in several things. She probably would have been a slight rebel in her time, she worked on during the war, during World War II, she ended up working with radio transmitters and was doing that a little bit and you know she actually told me that if she could have she probably would have gotten in the motor cycling and driven out west because she wanted to see what the country was like and so she had a sense of adventure that I thought was fabulous. 21:23 GS: Okay, how do you feel about the way gender roles are structured today in the society? 21:30 LA: I think that, I think that they have changed somewhat for what I considered to be the good. I think that in the traditional Armenian home years ago you know you had the mom at home, the dad working. There was this, you know I think really set roles and that is certainly not in my family. I mean quite frankly in my family I was the major breadwinner. I recently left my job but for the vast majority of my marriage I have been the primary breadwinner. My husband works but I was as an attorney, making more money than he was. And my husband has been really great about sharing the responsibilities of child rearing, of taking care of the home. He worked fifteen minutes from the house I worked an hour and a half away from the house. So, if the kids were sick at school, he went and got them. He was the one who relieved baby sitter at night. So, I think it has changed tremendously. 22:36 GS: How do you feel that Armenian organization? Do you feel that there is a distinction within the Diaspora between Americans of Armenian decent and recently emigrated Armenians from Turkey or Armenia? 22:51 LA: Yes, and I think that part of it and I do not know if I am right or if I am imagining it but I sense that there is a feeling among the Armenians who have recently come from the other side whether it is Turkey or Armenia or the Middle East. I am jealous because they speak Armenian fluently whether it is Eastern or Western Armenian. They speak Armenian fluently. And I have a sense that there is a feeling that if you do not speak Armenian, you do not read Armenian, you do not write Armenian, I have a sense that the American Armenians who do not read, write and speak Armenian are not considered as Armenian as they are. And I think that this is something that is a little bit of a gap. 23:46 GS: What role do you see Armenian organizations in America they are trying to bridge that gap? Do you think they are doing a good job of doing that or do you think they are generally appealing to one or the other group? 24:00 LA: Um, I do not necessarily see them trying to bridge it, I am not sure it is even, I am not sure it is acknowledged. Again, I do not know if this is just my perception. So I am not even sure it is acknowledged. What I sense is that with the Armenian organizations that I am associated with I mean I think that there is you know just a thought ̶ I am not sure if it has been swept under the rug actually. It might be. I am not sure I see it being addressed. 24:31 GS: Okay, well. That is all the question we had, thank you so much for your time. We very much appreciate it. 24:36 LA: Thank you. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lori Keurian Alonso https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/05f31d951592db4ccf6479f943284720.mp3 793cde0fa5cbd7d3ad3d8a6526055461 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cole, Louie Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-07-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:28 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55892">Interview with Louie Cole</a> Subject LCSH Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Louie Cole Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 25 July 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Louie Cole, Beers Road, Castle Creek in the Town of Chenango, and the date is the 25th of July, 1978. Mr. Cole, will you tell us where you were born and what year? [Pause] OK. [Pause]. Where were you born? [Pause]. OK. Louie: Well, I was born in Chenango Forks on June 12th, 1889. (Chuckles). Wanda: That's—ah, eighty... [89 years]. Louie: My—ah…father and mother, they'd…had built the house the year before, and had moved down from the farm on the hill. Wanda: So you were born right in Chenango Forks? Louie: Well…the first farm coming west out of the Forks, it was, it was really right in the village, or on the edge of the village, you know. Ummm—and my father had another farm a mile west of that—ah, where they had moved from, down there. Wanda: Well, where did you go to school? Louie: At, ah, Chenango Forks. They had a union school there, Chenango Forks Union School. The—the fire station is right where the school used to be. It was a—a four room school…up to the eleventh grade. If you wanted to high-school-graduate the last year, you have to go somewheres else. Some people, ah, I know—ah, a few went to Whitney's Point…to graduate. My brother, ah, went to Binghamton, and I guess the people from Castle Creek area here, some of 'em went to Binghamton and some of ‘em went to Whitney Point for that last year, ya know. Wanda: So you were a farmer until when? Louie: Well, I was a farmer until I was elected Highway Superintendent for—well, I guess I was elected in the election of 1928 and took office in January 1st, 1929. Wanda: Well you've seen quite a few changes, then, haven't you? Louie: (Chuckles). Oh yeah. Yeah. I couldn't begin to…name ‘em. Wanda: Well, one thing that's changed for sure is the equipment for that department, isn't it? Louie: Oh yes. Yeah. As far as equipment is concerned, ah…what we had and what we, what they have now—we didn't have anything then. (Laughs). Wanda: Hand tools, eh? Louie: We had two—we had two old Dodge trucks and one…K.R. Brockway, and they were, they both were old and were all, well, three of them were old and worn out, really. I finally…after…a few years, got, began to get some new equipment or new trucks that we could work with, ya know. And—ah, drivers not only like to take care of a new truck and use it good, where when it got old, they… It couldn't get old fast enough then. Get rid of it. Wanda: But you probably always had—ah, somebody to maintain them, didn't you? Did you do it yourself? Louie: Do with what? Wanda: Did you maintain the trucks yourself? Louie: Well, mostly, mostly. Yeah, we did, we did all that we could do with them, but the, but the grinding of the valves and if they'd have to have new rings or something like that. Of course now they never change rings in a—in a motor, but—ah, back then that was the proper thing to do after...so many years. And—ah, we didn't have the equipment to do that. Wanda: You had a, a town garage, did you...to work out of? Louie: Well, we had a town barn. Wanda: Umhmm. Where was that? Louie: Well, right...where it's located now. Wanda: In Castle Creek, huh? Louie: The town garage is, yeah. Yeah, there was...it was an old barn with a plank floor...and…and the cracks in the floor. It was colder'n as if it had been outdoors, ya know. (Laughter). Wanda: You probably didn't have any coffee machines either, did you? Louie: (Chuckles). No, that's for sure, or instant coffee, we didn't have either... hoo! Wanda: Well when you started out you had—what, how many men did you have for a crew? Louie: How many men? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: Well there was about...in the...about four regular men that we had all the while. That is...but they only worked when they—ah, when there was work. That is they wasn't—ah, in the summertime they would work right along regular, but in the wintertime, when it come fall, why, then they wasn't any work… Wanda: Until the snow came, eh? Louie: ...until, until we got—ah—some snow equipment, removal equipment, ya know. And the, ah… Wanda: You were telling me you had an old Caterpillar snow plow—way back in those times. Louie: (Chuckles). Yeah, we got, we got a, a Caterpillar tractor with a snow plow on the front with a wing on each side—all hydraulic. That was, that was s'posed to be the...latest thing goin' then. We, we was pretty proud of it. As I said, it was all hydraulic and we, we...in the summertime we used the tractor to, to haul the grader and the hoe, so we could…we'd disconnect the—ah, hydraulic system and then back the tractor right out and we could use it anywheres. That's what we was doin' one spring, 'n’ I know we had it all ready to come out, and I don't know why, but...Roy Cole was a little anxious or somethin' and he poked his head around the, the door to look just as the operator started the motor and the hydraulic oil come out and hit him right square in the face and—(Laughter). Ayuh. Wanda: A good story. You had some, some men that stayed with you, probably the— Louie: All the way through. Wanda: —many years. All the way through! Louie: All the way through. Yeah. There was...there was Roy Cole, no relation, and Nelson Ross and—ah, Earl Jones…and then there's some other men that came on in the spring of the year, ya know, and worked during the summer and, and—ah, worked right straight through during the summer. And there was Howard Strickland and—ah, Les Fuller. Wanda: Umhmm. 'Course you had a lot of mowing to do in the summer, probably, didn't ya? Louie: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did most of the...roadside mowing we did...well, I used to hire a farmer to mow what he could with his mowing machine, along the roads, you know, and then we'd come along and finish it up to the fenceline or the bank. Wanda: With scythes? Louie: With scythes, yeah. Yeah, and of course in the spring of, of the year, to begin with, we, we cleaned the ditches. We pulled all the stone and the mud and the dirt into the center of the road and—(Laughs)—then we spread it out and waited for it to dry and then we, we had a regular drag—a farmer's heavy-duty drag, spring tooth drag. We went over and broke those sods and stones ‘n’ things up, ya know, ‘n’ then we had more men working for a while in the spring. And after we done that, why, they raked the stone out to the side of the road. And then we, we'd come along with our trucks and they'd shovel those stone into the road—into, into the truck. Well years before, well, you'd see places along the road where they'd just pulled off from the road and dumped those stone right off of the side of the road, or they'd... they'd—ah, maybe some farmer wanted some in his barnyard or something like that. And—ah, well, that was all right to give them to him if he...only I thought, “My gosh, why not drive them, draw them a little farther and put them right in the road where they'd do some good altogether, instead of dumping them on the side of the road?” So that's—ah, what we did, we didn't dump any more on the side of the road after that. Wanda: You filled in the soft places, you mean, and like that? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. There was lots of… Wanda: That makes sense, doesn't it? Louie: …places where they would—'course we had to sometimes draw 'em quite a little ways, but—ah, they helped out, and the next year when it got spring, you know, and soft and bad… Wanda: Then you, did you have a steamroller or any kind of roller? Louie: Yes, we had a...we didn't use it, only on those—ah, 320A roads that we used to build. Wanda: Oh, what were they? Louie: Well, they were paid by the...we built 'em for the county. Each town, as a rule, built a mile of road, or if they could they built more, built, say, two miles or something like that, each summer. Well that, that gave more people more work, and of course it helped out the, the towns. It built a better road for the towns. We—what we did—we, we opened up the road and spread the dirt out each way, then we filled it in with field stone... We broke those field stone up, broke 'em up by hand. And—ah, then we—ah, we drew, the dirt that we scraped out of the center we generally used for the shoulder or so on, on each side. And then, we put... We'd draw some finer gravel on top of those field stone, you know, and roll 'em down good. And then we, we—ah, put a layer of crushed...ah, sometimes we had—ah, we had a crusher, too, that we crushed some of those stones for the top and—ah, we'd put those on, 'n’ then put on a coat of oil, and another, another coat of finer stone 'n’ had three, three—ah, three courses of stone on a...they were built, if the base was good—the, the big stone on the bottom—they, they made a good road. They lasted good. They, the asphalt held 'em together, tar, whatever they called it then. Wanda: There's probably still some of those stretches of road around, aren't there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Wanda: So that's how a road is built. Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: And that was funded by the state? Louie: That, that was... they were mostly, mostly built by hand—(chuckles)—you might say. Wanda: The money came from the state and the county? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. They paid the town for the equipment that—ah, we used, and they also paid the labor. Wanda: Well I'd say they got a pretty good bargain, wouldn't you? Louie: Ayuh. Ayuh. It was a good...it was a good deal for the, for the towns, and it was a good deal for the county and state, too, as far as that goes. Wanda: But it's no longer that way now, is it? We have our own—a separate highway department. Louie: Oh, I think that went out in the—in '33 or ’34. We had started the Brooks road up here. We'd graded it and got about...on that road we was, for base we was usin' a gravel instead of the field stone because there, there wasn't field stone left enough around that we could get, ya know. And I think we were about...we had the base about half done on the Brooks road, when the county come along and took over themselves. And since then...well, since then there's been a, let's see—ah… Yeah, since then there's been a state project, the—ah, that was similar, was similar to the 320A project, and I still, I think they still have it now. That, that's called the Donovan Act or something like that. That... the—ah, towns can work that way, but it's—ah, the requirements are, are so much higher and they have to have—well, they have to have pretty good equipment 'n’...and, and you're under state supervision and—they are, I think, I think now the state pays the whole shot. The county, I don't think, enters into it. Wanda: Yeah. But it's all taxpayer's money, isn't it? Louie: (Chuckles). Ayuh. Wanda: Well, let's see—ah—you were telling me about some of these men that stayed with you so long and—ah— Louie: Oh yes, there was— Wanda: —I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me about any of 'em. Louie: Pardon? Wanda: I was wondering if you had any stories to tell me—any things that you remember about working with a crew like that? You must have worked well together to stay that long together. Louie: Well I don't know any, remember any specific... occasions or actions, particularly...more of 'em. They was these men that stayed with me so long. Well there's Roy Cole and Nelson Ross, 'n’ Earl Jones, 'n’ Clarence Shearer, Howard Strickland, Les Fuller 'n’ Lester Brooks 'n’... Seems as though there's another one that I...shouldn't forget. They were all, all good workers and would work regardless of whether I was there or whether I wasn't. Wanda: You said something about the wages being 35 to 40 cents an hour way back then? Louie: Ayuh. They was, they were 35 cents an hour and, and—ah, after a year or two we got it up to 40 cents. And then the Depression of '33 or '32 and '33 or something like that—ah, there was a delegation of farmers came to the town board and complained about their payin' so much to the labor, they couldn't hire anybody on the...to work on their farms. Wanda: To do the hayin', eh? Louie: We—ah, ah, we didn't lower the wages. Wanda: Ah, you told me about working with a...not with a chain gang, not for a chain gang, but with a chain gang, remember? Louie: Oh. Oh. Wanda: That was before you were— Louie: I don't know… This was a state project and...somethin' and they—ah, they brought a bunch of Negro convicts up from…somewheres in the South, and worked on the road, the old—whatcha call it? The old dug road between Chenango Forks and, and—ah, well, Itasca or Whitney Point—on that road. It run up along the Tioughnioga River. Wanda: It was dug right out of the side of the mountain, eh? Louie: They—ah, I worked there with a team of horses with a dump truck. They had a steam shovel and they'd load the…and they had some, they had a couple of trucks. The, they’d load the trucks and my wagon, and we'd drive out where they wanted the dirt and we'd dump it and the Negroes would—ah, would level it off, or maybe'd push it over the bank or widen it out or something and—ah, it was—ah... I don't remember where they, where they housed those Negroes at night. I, I don't seem to remember that. I don't know whether they had—a, a tent compound or not. I… Wanda: Probably wasn't the best of quarters, anyway. Louie: They—ah, I know the shovel operator, when he was swinging around with the bucket and he didn't pay any attention to whether there was a Negro in the way or not, he just kept right on goin', but I didn't see any Negro that got hit or anything, but— Wanda: That's a terrible thing. Louie: —it wasn't his fault that he didn't hit some of 'em. Yeah, that was, that was years before I was Superintendent. Wanda: Yeah. You were—just a real young man then, huh? Louie: Yeah. And I needed a little money and a little squanderin', spendin' money, and my father let me have the horses. Wanda: So you went back to the farm. Louie: Yeah. Wanda: You've always, always kept a farm, have you, so that— Louie: No, no, after I was, after I was elected I kept it one year 'n rented it, and then I traded it off for property in Castle Creek. And we lived, we lived there in Castle Creek until, until ’47. I bought this property here in...I don't know, ’44 or '45 or something like that, with the idea of building, ya know. In '47 we came down 'n’...and built it. Built the new house in…we built the new house in ’49 and we've been here…well... We haven't had, the wife and I only had one son. We had three children and only one survived. Wanda: You were telling me that you went to school in Chenango Forks? Louie: Yeah, I went to school at Chenango Forks. Wanda: What was the old school like? Louie: It was a, it was a union school. I don't…they don't have 'em anymore, I guess. They don't because they're all consolidated, but they...it was four rooms. They went from, went up to the eleventh grade, and if you wanted to graduate from high school you had to go to...some other school. Some went to Whitney's Point, some to Binghamton. My brother, I know, went to Binghamton. Wanda: Well, you didn't—ah, have any special education that helped you out in this job as Highway Superintendent, did you? You just… Louie: No. No. No. There was no, there was no, no school, only hard work and… Wanda: Common sense, eh? Louie: —and a little head work along with it, ayuh. No, it was, ah, I don't know of a superintendent that ever—ah, back then, anyway, that ever had any special construction knowledge. Wanda: Yeah, but you had to know a lot about engines and machinery 'n’... Louie: Well—ah, you say a lot. Yes...you had to have a lot of common sense 'n’ a little good judgement along with it. Wanda: And good health, I would think, too. Long hard hours, right? Louie: Ayuh. Long hard hours. Wanda: You remember any special problems you had from storms? From snowstorms or washouts and rain and all that? Louie: Well...just—ah—I don't remember any...real special washouts or anything. I know one year we had a terrible—it'd been hot a long time like it has this year, ya know? Wanda: Yeah. Louie: And I expected maybe we'd get a hard thundershower—gully-washers, as they call 'em—that washed, filled the ditches 'n’ washed the roads and filled the sluices, ya know. And, but that was just one of those things, it wasn't anything special. We had one one year, and in just about a week and ten days afterward, we'd just got cleaned up 'n’ we had the same thing right over again. That was a little bit discouraging. Wanda: Ohhh. Then snow, you've probably had some, some snowstorms to get through, haven't you? Louie: Oh yes, we always had snow, once in a while. I can remember one winter that—ah, I think it was '55 or '54, we were workin' over on Poplar Hill Road over there, cuttin' brush, widening it out and, and along in February, and you could work all day long without your jacket on, even. It was that...warm enough so if you were workin' a little you didn't get cold. Wanda: You were tellin' me how you, when you first, or way back after you were Superintendent of Highways, you shoveled the roads out by hand and in layers or something? Louie: Oh yes. See, where they…might be in a...a cut, or even in a...right in the open, where they'd drifted so deep that we'd have to shovel a layer off of the top and throw it over and then some men would stay up on top and the men down below would throw it up to them and they would throw it out. That was...that was back-breakin'...work. Wanda: And you had a, a shovel. You said something about having a shovel that was made of, ah— Louie: Yeah. It was a, there was a state project, ah—ah, “Get the Farmers Out of the Mud” was the, um… Wanda: That was the actual slogan? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was the, that was the slogan. So we, we had been, of course, putting gravel in the road where we, when we could and where we could, but we had to shovel it on by hand and, and dump it and work it over again by hand and, and I convinced the Board that we could...do more if we didn't have to do so much of it by hand—if we had a, a power shovel, and we got one. It had a, ah...all it was, was a farm tractor on caterpillar treads and the—ah—circle that let it swing had a boom and a, and a bucket and cables and shivs and—ah, it was a 3/4 yard—no, no, a 1/4 yard bucket. Yeah. And we could load the trucks even, even with that, with…three times as quick as you could by shoveling it on by hand, you know. And…we got, we drew a lot of gravel that fall after that. I remember we started it right in that little, that little creek down on Front Street—ah, that comes down off of the Dorman Road and goes up in the hills there off from… Wanda: Oh yes, Cooley's Falls Road? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Cooley's Falls Road, you mean? Yeah, Dorman Road. Louie: Dorman Road. Yeah. It comes down...years ago it used to be called the McKinney Hill Road. Yeah, Dorman Road. Wanda: And you dug the gravel out of there? Louie: Ayuh. Right down where the state highway is now. Ayeah. Wanda: You never had to buy gravel, did you? Louie: No. No. Not then. It wasn't...not many years before you had to. Wanda: Yeah. Do you remember what Castle Creek was like when you first came over here? Has it changed very much? Louie: Just about like it is now, only... only there was a good, good grocery store there then. They, what's the, what the fire station is now, was the school house. That was open at that time when we came over here 'n’ I think my boy went to school there the first...first year he went to school. Wanda: 'Course there weren't so many gas stations around. I thought—that was one of the first gas stations, wasn't it, on Route 11, up there at Castle Creek school—or store? Louie: Well there was two gas stations. There was one at, where the store is and there was one just down this way a little ways. And then there was another one…up above…well up above where the state...garage is now. Wanda: Oh yes. Right in the woods there, right? Louie: Hmm? Wanda: Right along in the woods there? Louie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Terrell. Terrells run it. And they'd—ah, Mrs. Terrell was an awful nice lady and, and a good cook, and she had a little restaurant there too, at one time. Wanda: Well, gas stations were kinda friendly places in those days, weren't they? Louie: Yeah. Wanda: My dad had a country store with a gas station, at one time. Well, can you think of anything else you want to put on here? I hope you aren't getting tired. Louie: Oh, probably after you're gone! (Laughter). Wanda: Well if you...think of anything you want to add, you could call me up and we'll do it again. Louie: OK. (Laughs). Wanda: I want to thank you very much, Mr. Cole. You've been patient and good. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louie Cole Subject The topic of the resource Cole, Louie -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Farmers--Interviews; Highway engineering; Chenango (N.Y.) -- Officials and employees; Castle Creek (N.Y.); Highway Superintendent; Chenango Forks School Description An account of the resource Louie Cole talks about working on his father's farm in Chenango Forks, attending the Union School, his election to Highway Superintendent for the Town of Chenango, the practices and equipment used during that time, as well as the people he worked with, roads built and various advents of the time, such as 'Get the Farmers Out of the Mud' project and the first power shovel. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 15 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cole, Louie ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:28 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/c5897692febfd46fafe935420556930a.mp3 d5b673e7ea27d945a275ec08ad822c09 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Armenian Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource This collection includes interviews in English with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Armenia.  The interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Armenian culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Armenia.   Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright.  Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 4/25/2017 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jacqueline Kachadourian Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Louise Kachadourian Kontos Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 43:46 Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Armenian Oral History Project Interview with: Louise Kachadourian Kontos Interviewed by: Jacqueline Kachadourian Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty Date of interview: 25 April 2017 Interview Setting: Binghamton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 00:03 JK: This is Jackie Kachadourian with the Binghamton University Special Collections Library Armenian Oral History Project. Today is April 25, 2017. Can you please state your name for the record? 00:15 LK: My name is Louise Kachadourian Kontos. 00:20 JK: Um, where were you born? 00:22 LK: I was born in Binghamton, New York. 00:27 JK: And where were your parents born? 00:29 LK: My parents were born in what is now Turkish Armenia but it is in, in Armenia, Turkey. It is today Turkey. 00:41 JK: Do you remember what city or town or a village? 00:45 LK: My mother ̶ My father was born in the village of Har[put], Anoushavan and, and my mother was born in Hoğe, the village of Hoğe. 01:03 JK: Uh did they live there their entire lives or they came to the United States. 01:09 LK: They lived them up until the time of the, the Turkish massacre. 01:13 JK: And when did they ̶ do you remember when they left or was it before after the Armenian genocide. 01:22 LK: My father must have been a teenager when they came to his village and they had to flee. And he, he, they were the Euphrates River was close by. So whether he fled in the Euphrates, I know his brother did. And his brother will ̶ lived with a bullet in his head. And they dared not take that bullet out. When because the fact that was so closest brain, so he lived entire life with that bullet in his head. That was his older brother. Minas, who lived most of his life in France, and then in in Yerevan, Armenia. And my mother was a teenager, no, she was maybe ten, eleven years old. When she was ̶ her mother has sent her to the or ̶ to the orphanage. She tried to get through the lines with her brother, but they would not let her through. So she brought him back home. And after that she never saw him and he must have been about, he must have been about five or six years old. She must have been about eight or nine years old. 02:39 JK: And they never found each other. 02:42 LK: They never found each other and they never, she never returned. She tried for years to find him to track him down because he must have been about as I said, about five years old. And he was a redheaded boy. Mama remembers and she wanted to find him she could not find him she, she called every time a priest came into town she would ask questions and hope that she some somehow the word Mardin, an area where they have taken him and people had said they had seen him but she never saw him never ever heard about him. 03:25 JK: Um did, did uh how did they hear about the ̶ what was happening and had to flee did they- 03:36 LK: Well they started coming to the villages apparently from what Mama said they started coming taking, um taking families and people and transporting them on a march and taking their valuables away from them. They would she said they ̶ in her village, they took her grandfather and peeled his skin because he would not tell them where he they had hidden their, their valuables. They would, and then they took a pregnant woman and slit her abdomen, for the fetus to fall out. You are going to hear all these uncomfortable things. I am telling you, you are not going to like them. These are stories my parents related it as we grew up. 04:30 JK: They would tell you? 04:31 LK: All the time, they always my mother always talk she kept telling me that I would be another Joan of Arc that I would do something for you. She did not realize what, what it entailed. But anyway, um these are stories she ̶ we were children. We could have been five, six years old and she Mama would sit and tell us the stories and we would we would sit and cry with her. 04:58 JK: And she experienced them like firsthand? She experienced them firsthand? 05:03 LK: She experienced she said the children were so hungry. They would eat the greens on this, um, and when they, they had no water they were urinate and drink the urine and because they had no water they were- 05:18 JK: This is on the march? 05:20 LK: No This, this was could have been on the march. I do not remember that part of it. Mama did not go on the march she was she went to the orphanage where the Danish Danimarka ̶ the Danish uh missionaries took the children off the streets. That was where many of the ̶ and that was why so many of the Armenians became Protestant Armenians because they were converted. They did not convert them. They just preached to them. And this is um, Mama was not on the march. Mama, Mama somehow fled through the mission ̶ through the orphanage. She went from the orphanage. She had an uncle in Beirut. Or I do not know how he got money to her somehow. But Mama remembers playing the stock market. She was only a little girl. She was high and low. And she I remember her relaying those stories about the stock market and how she wanted to make to make some money to come to America. I really it is, you know, as you bring these stories, these questions up. It is things that I have forgotten. I wish I had related these things earlier. I have a tape with my father, where he told me his stories about his escape and how he fled and how people from America sent money for him to come to America. And when he came to America, he worked. He paid them back. This is how most of them got came here. Let us see. Yeah. Mama from there. I remember from the orphanage, she said her hair. Her head was so full of lice that they used to scrub her head to get [indistinct] because they could not take ̶ they had no baths, they would not ̶ no bathing, nothing. These Danish missionaries would wash, wash her hair and scrub her hair to get the lice out of her head. [indistinct] I, I only know the Armenian terms. I am assuming it was lice because [inaudible] I have not used those words in years. I do not use them ̶ there is no reason for me to use it. But um from there, she went to Beirut, Beirut Mama went from Beirut to Marseilles. I know she talked about Mars ̶ Marseilles and then [inaudible], another place she ̶ went to but keep asking questions I do not know. 08:21 JK: So how did, did she ̶ did your mom separate from her parents? 08:26 LK: Her father was already here in America. Her father had fled. His father had sent him right away, because he was a teacher. He sent him to America because it ̶ the soldiers were after him. The Turks were after him because they were going to kill him because he had beaten up a Turkish soldier. And they were-the word was out that they were going to come after him. So his fa-his father in whatever way was ship him to America. And my grandfather that was my grandfather died here in America in um in Massachusetts. He died of consumption, tuberculosis because he worked here in the in the mills, no one to take care of him and neglected himself and he contracted consumption. So he died here in his, his Cemetery in Lowell, Massachusetts in it is the Edson cemetery. And my uncle Garabed is, um, is buried there right next to him. And he died here in America too but he, he came here after and that is about it, that is all. He came after his father and his father had left there must have been a small estate or something left some money for them. So they divided I guess the percentage the brother gets more money than this sister because I do not know their ̶ I do not know. Whatever. 10:10 JK: [indinstict] back then. 10:11 LK: Whatever. But whatever that was whatever money was sent to her. So that she could come. 10:21 JK: Um, what about your mother? Or your mother's mother, so your grandmother. 10:26 LK: She died as soon as she ̶ they took the boy away from her. She died out there in the field. That was all she heard Mama heard. They came in took a little Harutyun. His name was Harutyun that is why my brother or your grandfather was named after him. He, he was when they came to take him she, she died there the field in near her home. That is all I know. I remember Mama saying also, also my grandfather had sent money to her to come to America and bring the family to America when he worked here in America at the mills. He sent the money to her, I remember Mama saying this. And instead of instead of picking the family up, this is before the um genocide. She ̶ my grandmother bought a house thinking that her husband is coming back home. And the genocide started after that. 11:36 JK: And she lost everything? 11:38 LK: Well, she died along with it. 11:43 JK: And then that was how your mother got into the orphanage system? 11:48 LK: Well she went to the orphanage when she was trying to take her brother with her that her mother was sending them both together. When she got through the lines, the lines and they would not let her through with her brother. They would let her ̶ Because they were holding on to all the little young men, and he could not have been maybe five, five years old, four or five years old. She would march with him to take him too but she could not get ̶ She brought him back home. She never saw him after that. 12:20 JK: Terrible. Um, your brother, my grandfather, Harutyun Kachadourian you were saying how your father lived in the mountains in a village and- 12:33 LK: He, he fled, he fled, and I do not think with any family, except with his family members. And I do remember up in Worcester, Massachusetts when I spoke to some of the Armenians up there. They told me that they lived in one room four families, every one family had a corner. And they said my father was so ̶ he was the only one he would go and find food find bread and he would bring bread, whether he would whether where he would get it from he would bring it and feed his brother and his family. His brother and his brother had at that time, maybe two or three children. And um ̶ but I remember the, the village people from my father's village said, my father was so [speaking in Armenian], so clever. So, he was he would always find ways to come in, bring food to feed the family. He was only a young boy himself. 13:48 JK: And this is back in, uh, Harp- 13:51 LK: In Ashvan, Ashvan, Ashvan my father they call them Ashvanse my mother they called Hoğetse because they came from Hoğet, the village of Hoğet. Papa came from the village of Ashvan Ash-Anooshavan I think, I believe it was Anooshavan and we called it Ashvan. 14:14 JK: And were they close nearby the two towns? Or no? 14:17 LK: I do not think so. Ashvanse was near the village of Korpe. I know that Korpetse because my father's cousin, um, Ohanian was ̶ and his son is out in California. He is ̶ became a lawyer Ohanjan Ohanian. There was a judge in Washington and became a judge out in California. And he-his father was from the village of Korpe and Korpe was near Ashvan that I know but Hoğ was, I do not think was near-near my mother's village. No. 14:58 JK: So then how did they meet? They met in America or ̶ 15:02 LK: Here in America. My father was a single man he came here to Binghamton New York. He, he ̶ weekends he was one weekend he was going an Armenian from Binghamton by the name of Nigerian, Louis Nigerian was going up to Massachusetts. And ̶ 15:27 JK: So going back to how ̶ 15:29 LK: Oh my father was. So one weekend Louis was going up to Massachusetts. He asked my father if he wanted to go. And of course, these young men were looking for brides. So he went up there. And in Worchester, Massachusetts, my father I do not know whether it was Worchester ̶ he-somebody told him about this girl, and my mother worked in ̶ for the Biltmore Hotel. She was a salad girl and she worked in some other place too because in a mill or something, because he, he went to the shop where she was working and he saw her and apparently Papa had been engaged to another girl before that. And he and ̶ but that did not work out because that girl wanted this and this for her family and he wanted a diamond ring she wanted, she wanted fur coat she wanted this for her mother. And so my father broke it off and in then I then he saw my mother in the slipper shop. She was working as a slipper shop then, and, and they and she saw when she saw him she, she did not like him at first. She said she did not want it, you know, but I do not know where she was where, because my mother was in Providence, Rhode Island and how she got to Worcester. I cannot remember the story, but she was worked in the south Biltmore Hotel in Providence, Rhode Island. And when she went the orphanage, she was designated to, to work in the kitchen. Because of her size or something, whatever she was older that boy, girl and they wanted to, and she worked her way ̶ she, she went to the classes, she went to school. She did. And before they found out and they found out that you they wanted to put her back in the kitchen. She was already established in the classroom, but she did not do. She did not want to work in the kitchen. She wanted to work. She wanted to go to school. And that was why my mother was an avid reader. She would love to anything I brought her own books in Armenian you know, she was sit down all night long and I would go on a convention with her. And I brought a book about Antoni the general who fought against the Turks. She, she sat in the toilet in the bathroom, because she did not want to keep us awake. She sat there with a light there and she sat and read that book all night long. She was so she loved to read, she loved to study; she and she was very bright and my cousin John often says that my mother, he ̶ his mother never taught him anything is you another Armenian. My mother would sit down and make us before we could get money to go to the movies. She we had to every Saturday we sat on this couch I will never forget. And all she sits in the middle and the rest of us on each side of her. We had to read our Armenian lesson, before we could go to get ten cents. It was always ten cents to go to the movies. She made the bag of popcorn for us a big brown bag of popcorn did it guess. But that was ̶ oh and she had a teacher. Her name is Belle Mason. Her mother was a judge. They were through the American Civic Association or what she used to come in to, to my mother at home, teach my mother. They took a liking to my mother. And they used to we used to go to her ̶ there. What is now part of Leverson was one of their homes. And we weekends we always used to come with their electric car and pick us up and take us to their house. We used to play with their beanbags out in the backyard. I remember that; grandfather should remember that too. 19:47 JK: Yeah. 19:47 LK: And let us see. And that was, what else can I remember Mama was a reader and an educator. She loved it. Not that she had formal education herself, whatever she learned in school and the orphanage. They wanted her to do KP duty but she, she wanted. She wanted to go to school and learn. And she taught me. She came here and was teaching me about the executive body, the legislative body, the judicial body. She learned all this from being tutored here and going to class ̶ did not go classes because she had little children. She had one right after another, so she could not. So they used to come and teach her at home. 20:38 JK: And did she ever go to school in, in her village, or she was too young? 20:44 LK: She probably went to school Armenian school in her village. 20:53 JK: Do you remember if there was a church there or ̶ 20:54 LK: There was and, oh, yes, church. Mama went to my Mom went to the [inaudible] or the, the, the um [speaks in Armenian]. The Armenian church ̶ she went the Armenian church in the morning. Also went to the Paul [indistinct] which is Protestant church, because her father used to preach in there. She learned the Bible, Mama learned the Bible. And she was ̶ went to [inaudible] Church in the morning in the Armenian Church, and the [inaudible] Church. She went to both churches. Now whether she I do not remember her relating whether her mother went but her fa-father was a teacher and he was a teacher and he also was like a minister in the in the church. And that was, that was it ̶ I guess one night he was coming home and they were they went to attack this attack him and he beat a Turkish soldier up a Turkish boy up or somebody. And they were after grandfather found out they were going to kill him so that he got him ready shipped him to America to get him out of the village. 22:22 JK: Did they bring anything with them when they had to leave? Nothing? 22:27 LK: Nothing. Nothing photos. No nothing. No nothing. Oh, except I do have one photo at home with my grandmother with their faces, like half covered and that was there. We have one photo at home. Yeah, we do have one photo. Now where that came from maybe Uncle Charlie brought it because I do not remember my mother bringing many pictures with her. 22:52 JK: They had to leave everything. 22:54 LK: She came with her clothes on her back. That was it. 23:02 JK: Wow! When they ̶ maybe your parents were too young, but did they work ever in their villages or? 23:08 LK: I never heard my mom ever. I do remember this about her uncle. He was hunchback and he fell off the roof. There was no medicine over doctors are something to correct that. And he grew up in that my uncle Charlie was hunch-hunchback. They used to call them Quasi[modo], hunchback guy or something like that there was a nickname for him. But work there? No, there were two young each children, you know. And they work maybe in the fields in the fields, because that was where my grandmother must have been out there when they took her took forcefully took the boy away from Harutyun away from her. And she had they said a heart attack. They were on the field. Yeah. 24:09 JK: So growing up, were you more Americanized or did you have Armenian culture behind that? 24:15 LK: I grew up in a in a building where the every there was no Armenians. We were the only Armenians there. There were Russians and Slovaks and Polaks. And we grew up in that building. And so and we grew up across the street from a [indistinct] Hall, which was a Slovakia gymnasium type of thing and we grew. And when we grew up there, we used to learn teach they used to talk in Slovak and count in Slovak and we learn to count there. And I remember my mother used to send us send me send us to Armenian school. There was an Armenian school on Jarvis Street and it was an Armenian Club and the second floor they had classroom. And Mama used to send me to Armenian classes there. And I think she, she paid twenty-five cents a week, twenty-five cents a week or month I cannot remember. But I remember twenty-five cents. She used to pay. And we used to go I used to go to Armenian classes there. And then whenever I once I started going out of town and going in Armenian communities, I started going to Armenian classes, I found classes, schools where they, they were teaching Armenian. And there were classes at Harvard University that I went to Armenian classes with Dr. Ara Avakian was teaching and I remember I ̶ they were amazed at the amount of Armenian I knew what I had learned and how I had learned the army and alphabet so well and I said they could not believe that I had learned it at home and from my parents from my mother. 26:04 JK: And both of your parents spoke Armenian correct? 26:07 LK: Spoke Armenian very well. And they spoke Armenian very well with one another. If they wanted to say something that they did not want us to know, because we knew Armenian, they would talk rattle back and forth in Turkish. And as much as they, they ̶ the trouble they had with the Turkish that was their that was their second language or first language in were they in their village. 26:41 JK: And how-what was the reasoning behind that? Why did not they learn Turkish instead of Armenian? 26:45 LK: They, they spoke Armenian fluently it was not. It was that the children they grew up with. It was like you were here in America. You speak English. That was your mother tongue here. And Armenian is your second tongue. There is it they are, they are just like the those influx of the Russian Armenians that are coming in their mother tongue is Russian, because that is like American here. So they learn Turkish but, but as my mother got older, because she did not use the language, she could understand it, but it was a little difficult for her to speak it. I remember going to Worchester, Massachusetts in Boston amongst some Armenians and who spoke Turkish. She Mama had difficulty in communicating. She could understand it and she could, but to relay it back it was a little bit difficult. 27:40 JK: Did she know how to write Armenian? 27:42 LK: Oh, yes, Mama read and write very well. 27:45 JK: And did she teach you and your brothers uh- 27:51 LK: -To read and write in Armenian? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. In fact, right now I teach my grandchildren and I see-I sing it the ̶ I ̶ the alpha, beta which is alpha, beta ̶ that is in Greek. Ayb, Ben, Gim I sing it in Armenian Ayb, Ben Gim they start dancing to what they think that is cute. So they can go almost twelve letters they know Ayb, Ben, Gim, Da, Yeč, Za I really ̶ I sing it with them and they start dancing to it and they think that is cute. 28:23 JK: And so- 28:23 LK: And Dlouisa she learned to speak Armenian and Greek at the same time she speaks Greek with her father and Armenian with me. So anytime we want to say anything to each other. We talk in Armenian so Demos does not understand. 28:36 JK: That is funny. Did ̶ so you grew up in Binghamton, and you were born here, correct? Uh- 28:46 LK: Right on Clinton Street. 28:48 JK: And did you guys have any Armenian Church or anything to go to? 28:53 LK: We had Armenian churches I said the only way we could go if some ̶ if somebody picked us up and the church came about in 19 ̶ 1927 Vintage I think they, they bought the church and yes we had it but it was in the other south, south side of town It was too far away. And you had to either get a bus and take out and get passes and go and get transfers of downtown Binghamton to get to the south side. And maybe once or twice a maybe we did that I remember but that was it. Mostly the Armenian ̶ Harry Sarkisian used to come and pick us up. 29:32 JK: Do you, uh, did you enjoy when you could go to the church, did you enjoy going and learning about ̶ 29:39 LK: You know, I do not know I do not re ̶ it was not that I did not enjoy it. I did not know any different. And then on, on, on Sundays, Sunday afternoon, one o'clock or two o'clock. A Protestant Armenian Protestant Ministry used to come in from Syracuse Badveli Acemyan First, it was Hachadourian then by Acemyan he used to come here to Binghamton. And all the Armenians from the south side, the Protestant Armenians, they used to walk everybody walked to go to church ̶ go to hear him speak. You know ̶ 30:16 JK: That must have been nice to see. 30:18 LK: It was it was very nice. I remember. And my choir director, Lilian Bogdasarian used to play the piano when she stopped, I started playing for them. For them. That was, that was at the first congregation church here on the corner of Front and Main Street. 30:37 JK: Uh and did the priest come weekly or was it monthly? 30:41 LK: Oh, no, the priest if we at that time, if we had a priest, we used to have ̶ we were lucky if we had a priest every once every three months, something like that that came in from New York. 30:54 JK: Yeah. And other people I have interviewed. They seem to be like ̶ their family became more Americanized you any ̶ but your family seems that they were ̶ 31:04 LK: My mother became Americanized when started doing business work, but that was much later. 31:11 JK: Yeah. Well, it seems like your early childhood that you were very you were introduced to Armenian culture with learning the Armenian alphabet, speaking Armenian, going to church when you could ̶ 31:28 LK: Church, but any social events ̶ Oh, I do remember one social event on. We went in the hall that used to be across the street from St. Michael's Church. They used to have a building there. It is not there anymore. But anyway, I remember. They used to have presentations. And they used to have speakers that u-they called [unintelligible] used to come and speak to the Armenians. And I remember my mother teaching me some Armenian poet ̶ some poem and I was supposed to get up and spe ̶ and I got up in front. And I got scared and I started crying. And my father came in and, you know, put his arms around me and hugged me, but, you know, but I was afraid I was I had to do this poem I was only I could not have been maybe five, six years old at that time. 32:18 JK: Yeah. But why do you think your family kept the Armenian culture rather than hiding it away and becoming more Americanized growing up? Can you think ̶ 32:33 LK: Because they were Armenian-Armenian, you know, they were. They were and they, they. In fact, even in later years, my mother was reading the Armenian papers she would give it she would say, this is a good article, she would come and make ask me to read it, you know, and she that was how I learned my just listening to my father's reading the paper by phonetics. He was doing like you would do a be is ̶ 33:03 JK: Yeah phonetically. 33:05 LK: Phonetically when he was reading the paper that way and I heard it so much more and as I grew up. And I started putting it together that it was much easier to read in Armenian and I could. And when I read the liturgy in church, I read it every all the time in Armenian that makes my Armenian to be more fluent, not in speaking, more so in reading, you see. And the more I look at it and the closer I read the by ̶ the liturgy in Armenian than my-my Armenian gets better, not the converse-the conversation okay, but my reading and writing, so I can read and write in Armenian. My mother was amazed how much I because I was in Brooklyn amongst no Armenians at all. And until I met an Armenian family, whose mother was a patient of mine and she ̶ I used to go to their home and they were all very Armenian and they spoke Armenian fluently and they were very active in the church in New York City. So that, that was it. I, I ̶ they did not say you have to be Armenian they that was just around us. We it was part of our growing up. We did not know any differently. 34:26 JK: That is very interesting. 34:29 LK: And of course, my brothers also grew up. There was Armenian boys in the neighborhood. 34:34 JK: Yeah, yeah. 34:35 LK: Antranig was a little boy. We used to call him Antranig, Antranig ̶ Oh, that Antranig was a general you know and so. And we used to, they used they grew up with these Armenian boys and we used to go to the Main Street Baptist Church. Mama used to make us ̶ send us to the first is a Syrian church Armen-Syria [inaudible] Syrian Church for Sunday school. It was only a couple blocks away. After that, then when they moved away, we went to the Main Street Baptist Church. And we all, we all grew up in the ̶ it was not that my parents kept the American culture away from us. They we were always exposed to it especially once you go to school, you were all your friends are all different nationalities you grow up with. And they when they when they were part of the Baptist Church, all the Armenians in the neighborhood used to go there, all the Armenian boys, they had their own basketball team there, you know, and they're all the boys were Armenian boys there. 35:40 JK: Yeah. So growing up in your neighborhood, you had other Armenians to hang around with and ̶ 35:47 LK: Not in my neighborhood no they were all Slovak and Russian and Pol ̶ no Armenians in our neigh-except Antranig. Antranig was the only Armenian boy and um ̶ 35:58 JK: And did he go to high school with you or a school with you? 36:02 LK: Not with me with my brothers. He went with ̶ Antranig went to school with my brothers with who else was in- 36:11 JK: Was there any Armenian ̶ other Armenians in your high school or? 36:14 LK: Oh yeah, high school girls. And I you know palled around with the [indistinct] you know all these now they were the ̶ yeah we palled around we hung around with each other afterward not so much in school because we were all in-taking different courses you know, I,I was taking a college course they were taking commercial courses they were you know, 36:45 JK: Did you ever socialize ̶ well did you American friend-did you have Armer-American friends and Armenian friends, correct? 36:54 LK: I had American friends. My, my friend was a,an undertaker's daughter. They only live two doors away and they were ̶ they had a funeral home there. And I grew up with Julie. Julie. I grew up with her She was my only the, only girlfriend I had that I remember. 37:15 JK: And did your American friends, did they know about Armenia and like what was going on? 37:21 LK: Never talked about it. 37:22 JK: Never? 37:23 LK: Never discussed it never ̶ you know that-that maybe You know, I do not remember the they were even ridiculing me or anything like that. 37:34 JK: Mhm. If they ever came to your house, did they ever see anything Armenian that would stand out distinctively or do you recall anything in your home that showed Armenian culture? 37:46 LK: The only thing I remember, in my home that I ̶ my mother used to make a big chart and it had the alphabet. And it had she used to make it so that we would all learn and, and every time even when we move from there to Clark Street, she made the Ayb, Ben, Gim, Da, Yeč, Za she put the whole alphabet there and that was the only Armenian that I ̶ and also when they killed the bishop in, in New York City in 1936 time, time in vintage. There was pictures of him. And I used to be so scared of those pictures. Because at night that was all I could get from my bed room that I could-from there on the wall. I could see his picture. And what did we know about death? We did ̶ I did not know anything about death except when I was in school, a little boy classmate of ours. And in those days, they used to keep the bodies in the home and they used to put a big wreath in the front of the house. You know, there was somebody had died and there was a dead body in that house. There was no funeral homes ̶ funeral parlors at the time. That I know that of. If there was maybe people could not afford it. I do not know. 39:04 JK: You said you had brothers growing up could you name them and- 39:08 LK: My brothers? 39:09 JK: And put their relation to yours? How old they are? 39:13 LK: My brother Harutyun, my brother Aristaks and Arslan three brothers. 39:20 JK: And- 39:21 LK: And Arslan,Garabed came afterward. 39:24 JK: And do they have ̶ they have Armenian names correct? 39:29 LK: Harutyun, Aristaks. Aristaks is the name of St. Gregory the illuminator. His one of his sons Aristaks and they pray with every Sunday in church they pray for Aristaks. Yeah, his name is mentioned every time in the in the church Badarak ̶ the liturgy ̶ Badarak Armenian. Badarak means liturgy in Armenian. And Harutyun, they all went to college they all went to the Harutyun became more of a ̶ into my mother I will never forget ̶ she sent him to Wayne University and Aristaks was going there and they both went to Wayne State University because I guess, I do not know why they picked that school at that time ̶ they could tell you that, that story more than I can but Harutyun was upset with the dormitory [speaks in Armenian] he got up on the bus and came right back home and my mother shipped him right back on the next bus. [laughs] 40:49 JK: That is funny. 40:50 LK: Yeah. 40:51 JK: Why do you think ̶ I want to end off here-why do you think it was so important for your mother to teach her children you guys Armenian? 41:06 LK: Maybe it was something she wanted to carry on ̶ her heritage, you know. carry ̶ and, and it was just second nature to us we did not know any differently and it was it was if they said if our parents said jump we jumped we did not say how high we just said we jumped if they said lay down and die we died because that was what they said we, we obeyed our parents so we did not dare never never would, would we ever talk back to our parents never never, never I never remember any of ̶ even my brothers never. I remember my brother Harutyun ̶ we got ahold of some firecrackers and once firecracker did not go off and he went with his hand and put it in it and it blew up in his hand ask him about that firecracker. 42:05 JK: Oh my god. 42:05 LK: Yeah. I will never forget this. And then another time my mother wanted to send me to the bakery and I did not want to take Harutyun with me and he fell off the roof ̶ off the garage roof and, and yeah and they blamed me because I did not take him if I had taken him he would not have been home to fall off the roof. 42:25 JK: Is there anything else you would like to add about ̶ 42:30 LK: No I really do not know that right now. Maybe Harutyun or those-A-Aristaks why do not you ask them? They, they have a-they are, they are interpretation and their, their impression of what, what how they grew up what they grew up what they said to say. Because they were more outwardly, they went to the boys club they went to the YMCA. I could not ̶ I did not go anywhere I did not, I did not have anywhere to go to. You know my brothers went out to the field and they played they played football and baseball I had to stay home and do the house cleaning and you know I did the every Monday Mama washed clothes and that Monday I, I came home and I had to iron clothes. I did the ̶ and the and every Saturday I-morning we had to clean house so we that was my job to clean the legs of the dining room table. The dining room table is still at Clarke Street. And it had these grooves in it all these ̶ and it was my job to clean all these grooves. and I said to my mother one day I said Mama why did not you have more girls? Why did I have to do all the work. [laughs] 43:41 JK: That is funny. Okay thank you so much. (End of Interview) Biographical Text Louise Kachadourian Kontos is a daughter of genocide survivors. Along with her four brothers, she was born and raised in Binghamton. She keeps ties to the Armenian community and teaches Armenian traditions to her daughter and grandchildren. Louise and her husband, Demos continue to live in the Binghamton area. Keywords Armenian; Turkey; Binghamton; Armenian community; Culture; Genocide; Stories; Armenian church; Family. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louise Kachadourian Kontos https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e42f4e22150aeb27d56d119ae9263248.mp3 737882d320fccabacbf91dfdff4caed7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Petras, Louise Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-07-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 23:11 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55999">Interview with Louise Petras</a> Subject LCSH Petras, Louise -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Louise Petras Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of Interview: 14 September 1978 Anna: I am Anna Caganek, dating to viewer, talking to Mrs. Louise Petras. 234 Clinton St., Binghamton, New York. Date is September 14, 1978. Louise: Louise Petras. Louise Petras. Breginsky! [sic] Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: I came up here Anna: My mother and father, yes. Louise: My father came - 1900. My sister came - 1901. And my mother came - 1903. The youngest one. And my other sister, I came - 1905. And my other sister came - 1906. Came, we livin’ on Pennsylvania - that’s near Harrisburg. I was working, it was about, it was [unintelligible] Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: I was working at Good Samaritan Hospital six months, and then I went to Buffalo to my aunt, and I was working in a hotel. When I was 16 years old, I got married…like a crazy. You write that? Then I still was working houses all the time. Was working over and over…housework. I never work in a factory. And then I came to Binghamton. My husband, he was working up here, and I was cleaning houses for everybody. For Mrs. Hamlin, I was working 14 years; Mrs. Smith; Dr. Kane, John; Dr. Kane, Paul. I did - and Dr. Gregory. I can’t think if he was living on a, on a…knick…doctor, doctor…mm, I, I can’t think of his name now. Anna: Tell me what, though, when you came to Ellis Island what they did. Louise: And then I came here from the ship. So I went to…now [unintelligible] Anna: Ellis Island. Louise: Ellis Island. And I stay there overnight. Anna: They look you over…? Louise: They looked me over. Then next morning, I went on a tra, trantor [sic] living on Pennsylvania. Anna: What was the name of the - you came, the ship? Louise: Kaiser Willhelm. I came on Kaiser Willhelm. And [laughs] [foreign], we sleep over and [foreign]. Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: And I tell you, I never see so many people in a ship. And I got lice now. I tell you. [laughs] So when, when I came to, to Lebanon, my mother first was doing my hair. Clean my hair. So I didn’t have any no more. Anna: Do you know when you got married, or where you got married? Louise: Oh, I ain’t got married ‘till - ‘cause I was 13 years old. And then I went up to Buffalo and I was working up there in a hotel, in a kitchen. Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: And then I was - I have typhoid fever. I was, eh, for 11 weeks I was sick. And I thought, “I’m gonna go.” But, I guess they didn’t want me up there. So then, you know…I have kids after kids - kids after kids. So when I moved from Buffalo to Lebanon - back to Lebanon [Pennsylvania] - I still was working. And…[foreign] I wanna say something, you know…I was working in Buffalo, housework, every place. Then I went back again to Victor, Buffalo. And I was working up there, I don’t know how many years. That was my job. And here I was, working all over the doctors. I was working, I guess, 14 - 8, 16 years after Mrs. Hamilton, and she had the drug store. But, housework. And then for John Smith’s wife, I was working housework. Dr. Kane, John, I was working housework. Dr. Paul Kane, I was working…Mrs. - Dr. Marino, I was working up there year and a half. Then I went back… Anna: And what’s the name of the…was, uh, the doctor? So I didn’t even know…? Louise: Dr. Pollmak, over two years. I was working hard, you know. I never worked in a factory because I didn’t understand factory. So I was working housework. Anna: Hm. Louise: And you know how that is when you have kids after kids. I have 14 kids. I have 11 boys and, and 2 girl - 3 girls. Now, I got two boys left and one girl. They, all of them died when they was 15…22. Then I was on a farm. I liked it in a farm up on Chenango Forks. We was up there only 10 years, and then move again, [unintelligible] Anna: Well, tell ‘em how nice the people were in those days. Louise: And that not, that time, the people was very nice. They help each other. If you need help, the people help you; if they need help, you help them. We never fight. ‘Cause they, they always was nice. Nadda, not like nadda. Anna: No. Louise: You won’t get any help now for them. And everything was cheap. So my mother paid $3.50 rent - we had five rooms. But they had water water outside - you had to carry it. I tell you: The people so nice to you. God, if you need this - if you need money, they lend you. If you need help, something like, uh…do you know how much we pay for a pound of pork chops? We pays $0.10 pound of pork chops; $0.04 a hot dogs pound; and $0.06 of beef for soup. How you like that? $0.25 for dozen eggs. The, we used to buy 100 pounds of sugar for $4.00. And 100 pounds of flour because my mother used to bake bread. Now, see how, how people was that time? How they helped each other? But now, lookit: They don’t pay any attention to nobody. I can’t understand how that’s gonna come. And I tell you this much: My grand, grandmother was 96 years when I went here. And she told us what’s gonna happen. And it’s coming! And nobody gonna wanna believe it. And it’s gonna be worse than it is. Because people don’t care; they don’t help each other like they used to do. I can understand why. There are still the kids stealing, they are killing. That’s what my great-grandmother said, that that’s what’s gonna come, and this is the year [it]’s coming. Now, believe me or not. Too bad I am not up there so I can tell you the straight how is it. But, nah. We paid, you know how much we paid for shoes? $0.50 a pair and $1.50 for the good one[s]. And $0.03 a yard for good, for make new clothes. Now, isn’t it nice up there that time? Anna: That was probably the 19…eh, the 20s and 30s. Like that. Louise: Yeah. Anna: Like, uh…19, uh… Louise: That was, that was what? Anna: 1920s? Louise: Not 30…? Yeah. Anna: 1930s…and, yeah. Louise: Yeah. That’s, that…people helped each other. Anna: 30s. And up to 19…um, uh, 40s, wasn’t it? Louise: Yeah. Everything - believe me, if you buy coat? $75.00. $75.00, or that was, was the best one. And when the hairdre- when the lady made dresses, she charge you $0.50 for dress. $0.03 for pound; $0.03 a yard, we bought. And then we had everything like that. You don’t believe that, and that’s true. It’s too bad that I can’t do it right straight, you know. To tell them what it what - what we went through. And in the summertimes, you should see the people. They was, my sister’s husband [laughs] was playing accordion and, eh, was dancing outside. Help each other, no- not like now. This is, this is awful what they’re now. [unintelligible] Yep, that’s, that’s true. That’s a, that’s a thing that I can…’course, I went a few days to school. A school home - Mrs. Lee used to teach us. And Ms. Hess come up, you know. Anna: That’s when you got your paper [proof of citizenship]? Louise: That’s when I got my paper. Anna: 1934? Louise: 1934, I guess. Yep. All the people was nice each other that time. That’s, I don’t think that never gonna happen no more. No. ‘Cause now, you’re afraid to go out. Outside. Anna: No cars then, days, so no… Louise: They didn’t have any - so much cars. There was few of them, but… Anna: Mm-hm. Louise: Boy, I tell you… Anna: How did you go, get to the farm? On the car, then? They, uh… Louise: We, we have a car; we have a truck on a farm. Anna: What did you do on the farm? Louise: We wha-farmer, and we was selling milk. And potatoes…and I took eggs: $0.25 a dozen. So…then I pick up the white…I went in a field. Pick, pick up the mushroom - the white ones, the early one. Bushels. I went up there every morning; I went up there, I came up the Main Street, and I said, “Here: Divide it. How much you want? How much you want?” Now sometimes, I made butter. When the flood hit, we didn’t have any, any place to get the milk, so…I made butter. That’s, that’s the way was my life. So…and I liked it ‘cause there was people. Anna: Everybody was happy. Louise: Everybody was happy and there was a people nice. They appreciate you when you come up there, but now? Look at now. I can understand. And believe me or not, it’s gonna be worse. You say, “I can understand.” Anna: What year did your husband die? Louise: My husband? Oh, he was, uh… Anna: He used to build houses. Louise: He used to build…my husband was a builder - he used to build, uh, houses. Stucco houses and every kind of, uh…that’s why he built, uh…up here, up on the six- Anna: Sokolovna? Louise: Huh? Anna: Sokolovna? Louise: Yeah! This, this one. Anna: Tell ‘em, tell ‘em. Louise: This, this…or… Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: Well, they’re gonna, they’re gonna have to see this up there. My husband build that. Anna: Yeah, the Sokolovna. Tell ‘em. Louise: The Sokolovna up here, yes. Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: Yes. Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: My husband was good builder and everybody likes him. Even Father Cyril, when he was fixing something in a church. But, now? They won’t pay any attention to nobody. Anna: What did you go…? What did you do? Like, did you go out for a good time in Ithaca? Louise: Oh, no. Anna: No. Louise: We didn’t go for good time. We went with somebody got married - the wedding. But, we didn’t go to dance or something like that. Anna: Vacation? Louise: No, no. Never, no- Anna: But, you were happier, though? Louise: We was happy, I don’t care. But not, not like now. You gotta be scared now when you go out. Well, this is awful - everything. Believe me or not, and it’s gonna get worse. And believe me or not because I read the Bible - all Bible and there everything said. Anna: So, don’t…? Louise: Yeah, that’s true. That’s not, I’m not lying because I never lie, and I was working at rich people - doctors, everything. I never touched nothing. Anna: What church you go to? Louise: Uh, eh…what church we went? Anna: What church you go to? St. Cyril? Louise: St. Cyril, I’ll go. And then I was living on, uh, Rotary Ave., we went down, St. Thomas. Yes. And the people was happy. Now? Gosh. I don’t think take care of street, people across street on Rotary Ave. But now, you have to be afraid to go out. That’s why I don’t go out - because I’m afraid. One thing, um, [I’m] already 86 years and 6 months - 5 months. And I can’t see very good, so I have to sit in house. That’s…so there you are. That’s my story. Too, too bad I don’t know how to write. Because I went to school - we used to have the school home, you know. Twice a week, Mrs. Lee used to teach us. Anna: And what’s, eh…when you came to this country, you were how old were you when you came to…? Louise: I was 13 years old when I came here to this country. Nyet. Then I got a job down at Good Samaritan Hospital. Anna: Hm. Well, you came from Czechoslovakia, off, it was at that time Austria-Hungary. Louise: Yeah, that was, eh…it used to belong to Franz Joseph, that time. Anna: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Louise: But I, I came up here on, uh…what was the ship I told you? Anna: Yeah, you did. Louise: So not the way…well, be better for me if I sent somebody intact. Anna: Mm-hm. Could you think of anything else? Louise: I was in a hospital…I don’t know how many. The first, I was in that old, old hospital that was on a fifth floor, and we got out first. When was that? That storm? That, that come. Anna: Oh, you mean, like the…the big storm? Louise: Yeah, storm. And that, that building went like this. Anna: Shaking. Tell ‘em. Louise: Shaking [laughs]. Yeah. I used to tell the nurse how to supposed to clean and mass- Anna: You mean the City Hospital? Louise: And massage. Anna: City Hospital? Louise: No. Down, down…at City Hospital, I, uh… Anna: Wilson Memorial…? Louise: Wilson! Yeah. But, that was the old, old…that’s a long time- Anna: Uh-huh. Louise: -because I was up there. I don’t know how long. I used to massage the woman [sic]. You know? Anna: Yeah. Louise: And there was this one nurse, she said, “What are you doing?” I said, “So what? If she asks me, and her backs hurts, why not?” I used to help how much I could, and then I got so sick. Then I, five weeks. Fi- I think five weeks. Five weeks, I didn’t even talk to nobody, I didn’t even, any…just feed me by the, the tube. ‘Cause I have…wait a minute, what I did I have? Anna: Typhoid fever? Louise: No. Anna: Scarlet fever? Louise: Something I, I do know… Anna: I thought you had one of those. Louise: I forgot already. But, uh… Anna: Typhoid, didn’t you say? Louise: The, the first one…that was on my story - oh! I have ulcers. Anna: Oh, ulcers. Mm-hm. Louise: Yeah, the first one I was up there. And I used to, used to laugh at them, you know. I said, “Do you clean? Did you call this clean?” I said, “Gee, I could clean it for a few minutes and it look awful nice.” ‘Cause I’ve brought like that when I was in Europe, when I, when my mother left me, I was eight years old. And I started work, you know? And that’s why, that’s why I’m…if I clean, I clean. If I don’t, I don’t. I’ve been bragging, but everybody likes me. Especially when I make the home noodles. [clears throat] Anna: Tell ‘em. Louise: I used to make home noodles. Anna: Mmm. Louise: Up to Smiths? Boy, you should see. Anna: You ought to give me some if you’ve got ‘em so I can show the girls. Louise: You should see how they fight about it. God, I, for five eggs. I’ve, I made noodles for them. Anna: Mmm. Louise: Then I put hot butter on it? Oh, you should have seen them. No, I’m not bragging, but I tell you: Every place I was working, they likes me. Everybody, no matter who was. Yes. Anna: And that’s all? You can’t think of anything else? Louise: And that’s right, I can’t think of any-[laughs]. Anna: Are you sure? Louise: Yeah. But, don’t put me in a jail. Anna: Oh, okay. Louise: ‘Cause I don’t wanna go to jail now because there’s lots of- Anna: [chuckles] Louise: -bad guys up there. Anna: Well, you want me to stop it now? Louise: That’s okay. [foreign] Anna: [foreign] Louise: [foreign] Anna: [foreign] Louise: [foreign] Anna: Yeah, go on. Louise: 67…$67.00. 67 years old when I went for the first time for my Social Security. You know, when you get the money. Anna: So, Social Security? Louise: Social Security, something. I went in the court, and I asked the man, I said, “Are you sure this belongs to me?” I said, “I don’t wanna go jail.” And then he said, “Well, they need woman up there cook for them and clean.” I said, “Boy, if I go up there, they gonna be quiet.” [laughs] So the, two months later, they call me up. He said, “I got $280.00 for you.” I said, “No, I don’t, not want it. I don’t wanna go to jail.” And they started laughing. He said, “Don’t be afraid; that belongs to you.” ‘Cause I was 62 years, I didn’t went up there, asked, ‘till I was 57. Anna: 67. Louise: 67. So there you are. But, you know? It’s hard to talk now, this way. But, if I was with you? I, maybe I could have better one. Anna: No, that’s alright - you’ve said everything. Well, that’s it then, huh? I’ll shut it off now. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Louise Petras Subject The topic of the resource Petras, Louise -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms Description An account of the resource Louise Petras talks about emigrating to the U.S. from Czechoslovakia at the age of thirteen, her work cleaning houses for a variety of people, and living on a farm in Chenango Bridge. She also discusses obtaining her citizenship papers. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 49 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Petras, Louise ; Caganek, Anna Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-07-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 23:11 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/c7bcf9dd5fe09f60aefc42caaf0d0808.mp3 eb76b2f18458c9d1af812faa310f06e9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Armenian Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource This collection includes interviews in English with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Armenia.  The interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Armenian culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Armenia.   Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright.  Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 4/18/2016 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gregory Smaldone Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lynn Jamie Arifian Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:31 Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information. Biographical Text <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Lynn is a daughter of a genocide survivor and has become very active in her Armenian Church. She was a liason for the Parish Council and is involved with the ACYOA. She works as a school teacher and has two children. "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">Lynn Jamie Arifian is a daughter of a genocide survivor and has become very active in her Armenian Church. She was a liason for the Parish Council and is involved with the ACYOA. She works as a school teacher and has two children. Keywords <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"genocide; gender roles; Armenian language school; church; ACYOA; traditions; food; music; Christianity; Sunday school; diaspora; assimilation; generational gap; "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">genocide; gender roles; Armenian language school; church; ACYOA; traditions; food; music; Christianity; Sunday school; diaspora; assimilation; generational gap Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Armenian Oral History Project Interview with: Lynn Jamie Arifian Interviewed by: Gregory Smaldone Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty Date of interview: 18 April 2016 Interview Settings: Phone interview -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:02 GS: this is Gregory Smaldone with the Armenian Oral History Project being conducted at Binghamton University through the Special Collections Library. Will you please state your name for the record? 0:11 LJ: My name is Lynn Jamie Arifian. I am saying this for a reason. [laughs] 0:20 GS: How old are you and where were you born? 0:23 LJ: I am sixty-nine years old and I was born in Queens, New York. 0:29 GS: Is that where you grew up? 0:32 LJ: That is where I grew up. I grew up in Rego Park and Floral Park. 0:37 GS: Okay, can you tell me a little bit about your parents? 0:41 LJ: My parents– Oh yes– My mother was a genocide survivor. She went through a multitude of sadness and as a result of that and a lot of health issues as a result. She survived with half of her family. Unfortunately she lost her father, older sibling and actually younger sibling as well. She and her mother and two sisters walked what they call Deir ez-Zor which was a desert to– Actually a march, they were on a march that the Turks oversaw and of course it was a lot of unkindness during that march and they survived. They were able to eventually get to Aleppo in Syria where my grandmother had to put the girls in an orphanage and they went through a lot even there too. My mother became ill. She lost an eye. There were a lot of things that were really difficult for them but she survived as did the two sisters and two other brothers and my grandmother was able to get everybody to America eventually and with the help of relatives that had already come here years before and anyway, so that was my mother. My father's family escaped all of that thank God, because they knew things were not comfortable in Armenia, and they were able to leave and go to Cairo, Egypt. They kind of– the whole family, thank God, they all made it there and where my grandfather worked as a jeweler and my father's family because was educated there and then came to America and continued their education here. So a little bit different story thank God they did not suffer the way my mom's family did. 2:43 GS: What was the highest level of education each of your parents achieved? 2:47 LJ: Well, it was wonderful my father actually went to Columbia University and became an architect and my mother with the help of an older brother went to school and became a dental hygienist. So they went beyond the high school level you know, I believe it was three years of school for dental hygiene and my father went through four years of college. 3:12 GS: Okay, and so they were an architect and a dental hygienist, as their main profession? 3:19 LJ: At that time, yes, when they first came here and they were able to get jobs that was–yes, those were their careers. Then the depression came, things changed a little bit. It became a little bit difficult– 3:30 GS: What were their careers when you were growing up? 3:33 LJ: Growing up my mom became a home maker she did not work any longer and my father became a lithographer. He–architecture kind of–after the depression there was really no need to be building new buildings–there were doing other things that were more important, he was not involved in that so through Armenians in the photoengraving business he got a job as a lithographer which involved, you know this is where I am kind of ignorant, it had to do with the designs of the cards, with the printing and how to, you know, present the final draft whatever. I am not even sure what he did. It sounds terrible but I was never, I am not and I was not then either. So and he supported us, he worked for a company called Norcross Cards, you have probably never even heard of them but they were a big company like Walmart is today at that time. 4:28 GS: Was your mom a homemaker because your parents were conforming to traditional gender roles or was it more than equal partnership and they decided to delegate their responsibilities that way? 4:38 LJ: I think it was gender role, definitely with my father. It was an old world family. I think he felt the woman's place was home to make sure the food was on the table, the children were taken care of etc. 4:53 GS: Okay. I am assuming that both of your parents spoke Armenian? 4:58 LJ: Yes they did. 4:59 GS: Did they– 5:00 LJ: Interestingly enough, yeah go ahead Greg ask the question, I will tell you something, go ahead go ahead go ahead 5:05 GS: Did you and your siblings attend Armenian school; did you grow up speaking Armenian?? 5:12 LJ: Okay. I have a younger brother, alright, and in the very beginning when we were–when I was very little, when I was actually born through my, I guess, five-six years of age, they spoke Armenian which brought my brother to about two years of age. I had to enter school. There was a problem with language. So my father must have made the decision because they both spoke English. They were educated. They said you know hereafter we have to speak more English around the children so they do not have that problem when they go to school. So they began to then speak more English than Armenian. I kept the language meaning I still can understand a lot of it and can speak some of it. My brother ended up receiving nothing. Now as a result, when the Holy Martyr’s Parish was started, they decided to enroll us both in both Armenian school and Sunday school. We were made to attend both. 6:13 GS: An Armenian school was a Saturday school? 6:17 LJ: It was a Saturday school. It has always been a Saturday school, yes. 6:20 GS: And where was the school held and where was the bible school? 6:23 LJ: When I started Armenian school it was already in the church building, Sunday school was not–Sunday school they begin– 6:30 GS: Which church building? Is this Holy Martyrs? 6:32 LJ: –Sunday school earlier. I went to Flushing YMCA before the church was built for Sunday school. Then once the church was built and there was both schools we attended those in the church complex. 6:42 GS: You are referring to the Holy Martyrs Church in Bayside? 6:46 LJ: Yeah. Holy Martyrs Church in Bayside. Correct. 6:51 GS: Okay. So when you were growing up, would you say that your kinship group was mainly Armenians, mainly non-Armenians or did you have some mix of both? 7:01 LJ: Oh I had a mix. I had community friends–life was different then–everybody lived on streets where everybody was literally on top of one another [laughs]. And I had, you know, community friends as a result that you know went to my school, public school etc. and my junior high and my high school and I had Armenian friends, lot of them also because of my involvement with the church. I had– It was both and to this day remains that way. I hold friendships from my school years and my old community and we were very close. And Armenian absolutely, many of my Sunday school friends are my best friends you know so in ACYOA, there is the other thing, they started a youth organization and–my parents made sure we joined them as well. So, we were immersed Greg–we were immersed. 8:02 GS: Were your Armenian friends and your non-Armenian friends, two separate groups or were they intermingling? 8:07 LJ: You know, it was funny. I intermingled them. I personally brought all my friends together. If I had a party, everybody was there. If there was something going on at church I actually brought my non-Armenian friends as well. I had a Jewish girlfriend and a Greek girlfriend in particular that I was very close with and they came to a lot of the events with me and they actually dated some Armenians. I–well–I brought them all together–I liked it. It was fun. Everybody had a good– everybody got along, it was nice. 8:41 GS: What kinds of traditions if any, did your parents try and maintain in the household? 8:48 LJ: Um, traditions–certainly the foods you know, our table was Armenian influenced, was not anything else. 8:58 GS: In what way can you describe some of the foods? 9:00 LJ: Yeah, you know things like, I do not know if you are familiar with it, dolma which was, you know, a stuffed vegetable with meat and a rice, a börek which was a cheese pastry, çörek which was a bread, simit which was a cookie, I mean it goes on and on. You know, eggplant dishes, imam bayıldı, pilaki which is a bean type of dish. It was constantly on the table. I do not remember a meal without having some Armenian food. And very rarely did we eat out or bring in non–you know, I am saying any kind of thing that was non Armenian. Occasionally there would be a pizza on the table or maybe some Chinese food but very rarely. The other thing was music and dance–big in my family. Very big. We literally would party in our own living room as a family and turn on music and dance. Big in my family, very big. We literally would party in our own living room as a family and turn on music and dance. Very, very big. 10:02 GS: And did you listen to Armenian music? 10:03 LJ: –Father played piano by ear, and he played Armenian music, he played anything, he played anything that he could hear and repeat and we just–and we had a piano and we kind of just enjoyed it. 10:12 GS: Where would you say was the main social space for your Armenian community growing up? 10:19 LJ: The main social space? 10:20 GS: Where did the community conglomerate? Where was the community's– 10:24 LJ: It was the church, our church, Holy Martyrs at Bayside. It was really the Bayside Church 10:28 GS: Was it because of the religious aspect of it, was that– 10:34 LJ: Say that again sweetheart, I could not understand you. 10:36 GS: Was it the religion that tied everyone together or did the church serve a larger role? 10:45 LJ: Um, the religion was foremost, first and foremost when I grew up, okay? And that sort of progressed in a sense and brought the rest of it together or brought it into the community which was–when the church was built, it was built primarily, the church, to identify as is Christian because that was the problem, of course, in Turkey. So when they built the church, and I will never forget this, my father–I will never–do you remember above the altar in Armenian, I mentioned in Sunday school every year but kids forget I know. It says in Armenian, “sirel mimyants’ k’ani vor Asttsun ser e” that means "love one another for God is love” the one that looks like a five. Do you remember those letters? 11:36 GS: I do. 11:36 LJ: My father designed those for the church. My father was a bit of an artist too and he designed that and he designed the liturgy books. He did a lot of work then like I said religion was foremost, but as the church grew you know, sure they wanted to bring in you know, more culture too so they would have events you know, not only for the children but everybody which were bazaars and picnics and kaps, they used to call them kaps which really is a Turkish word but means like a party where you got together and it was more than just the faith it was– we were a family dancing together, singing together, breaking bread together. So –but it begins first as the church meaning the Christian peace. Of course what the Armenian peace you know meaning it was the church and Armenian liturgy. So– the answer to your question– I cannot remember. [laughs] Gregory, I am getting so old I cannot remember what I am saying anymore. 12:39 GS: No, no, that was perfect. I think we can move on a little bit to your adult life. Can you tell us about your family now? 12:47 LJ: My family now, well I ended up marrying somebody that I met through the church and my husband Jamie Junior was in my Sunday School it was in my ACYOA, whatever, um we socialized as many the same places meaning if he went to an event, dances into whatever we were you know not necessarily together but we knew each other and the relationship eventually became more than just friendship and we ended up marrying one another, and we–after periods of marriage we could not have children biologically so we got two children but they were baptized in our church and you knew they were raised in our church we brought them to the Sunday school certainly, ACYOA and we tried Armenian in school that did not work out really well. 13:45 GS: Was it important to you growing up that you marry an Armenian, was there pressure from your parents to marry an Armenian? 13:51 LJ: For me, now you going to think, this is crazy, from my parents yes, O-M-G yes. But for me, not as much. I dated other people, I did not just date Armenians because I am not going to lie to you, that was not well received at home, you know the family all the family; my grandparents, my aunts, my uncles, my parents; why, you know, why cannot you date an Armenian. I did not see it that way. I was assimilated quite a bit. You know like I told you I had friends every ̶ it did not matter. And I think it is because I just enjoyed people it did not matter as long as I felt the friendship was sincere. But I ended up you know this is the way it went, I did date Armenians still, you know, I mean I dated, non-Armenians, Armenians whatever, and, you know, because they were very happy he was an Armenian, and–I – you know it worked out ̶ Okay for me too and that we were both comfortable in the same community we both had you know same ideas as far as support of the community. So you know it has been a positive, not say it was a negative, it was a positive. 15:04 GS: Did your husband speak Armenian? 15:07 LJ: No. Hardly any. 15:08 GS: So, when you had children was it important for you that they speak Armenian and if so how did you try and teach them? 15:16 LJ: No, we did not, we really– I might– How did I try? I brought them to Armenian, well I brought my son, my daughter could not go to Armenian school. She had a learning disability and it was recommended that we not introduce a second language, so we did not with her. With him we tried. We brought him to Armenian school and tried a little bit. But it was so difficult, I was really kind of alone in it, Greg. So it really was too hard and he was just so miserable for few years so I stopped. I could not do it anymore. And then we just said it is not, that does not necessarily make you an Armenian, that is my argument about this awful time, being an Armenian to me something you feel within you, you know it is something that you feel is in your heart not so much in you know language and you know this physical pieces it is more in your heart you know ̶ 16:05 GS: So, how did you try? 16:06 LJ: Hard connection to the community. I am sorry. 16:10 GS: So how did you try and give your children a sense of Armenian identity? 16:15 LJ: Well, they came to the Sunday school, they both went and graduated. And you know how it is, not easy especially the first couple of years, it was a real trial. Like every other teenager we have been in the Sunday school, and then–I–ACYOA, they were both really involved in ACYOA. And I would invite ACYOA here for an event, you know I encourage the kids to come here and do things together here. They had other friends outside of church I mean do not misunderstand that was never discouraged, and you know I brought them you know to church activity that involved the family whether with the festival, [inaudible] ̶ time or picnics and then the festivals, you know whatever, if we had a bizarre you know they would present, I would drag my daughter and the stroller, if we were making some simit or burma something at church she would be sitting in her stroller, eating her pretzels and drinking her juice and I would be rolling at the table. I mean they were brought into the church a lot. They were physically there a lot so they got, they became very comfortable and they had many Armenian, friends. They still, my daughter still has Armenian friends you know to this day. Unfortunately, I do not see any of them in Church though [laughs], so, including my daughter. 17:32 GS: Do you think that it is important to go to church in order to maintain one’s individual Armenian identity or even the Armenian community as a whole or do you see the two is interrelated? 17:48 LJ: I see the church as, well, I see the religion, you are asking me do not forget and not everybody is going to say this, I see the religion as the first and foremost meaning and I am going to put it in an order. I see the Christian piece first, and then the Armenian next to that. So if I line them up I put the Christian and then I line up Armenian next to that, and the reason why is I feel it is more important that the Christian piece you know be in our life and I am not saying, I love my Armenian piece but I feel that living my life as a Christian is more important than identifying with my nationality. That is me personally and I think I tried to do that with my kids, and I think it is there, you know, even though my son unfortunately, my son passed away but before he passed away, and it was months before he registered his own child in the Sunday school so that the child could know some, Sunday school and see what the church is all about. The Armenian piece is important to me too. Do not misunderstand, that is why I continue, you know, to do my work through the Armenian Church because I am proud of that piece of my life as well. You know, my parents you know– 19:32 GS: If I could ask a question quickly, are you saying that Christianity is an important part of your Armenian identity or an important part of personal identity? 19:47 LJ: No, I think it is more my personal identity. I do not think– 19:49 GS: Do you think Christianity is an important part of being an Armenian? 20:00 LJ: I think it should be an important part of being an Armenian because, and now I am going back historically, and we were the first Christian nation, not the first Christians, the first Christian nation we accepted Christianity as a nation before any other nation in the world. Okay, and that was, I was taught that by everybody in my life. And I think that it is important for us not to forget that. And what is and also to identify what that is, you know that yes we– our culture is important, our food, our music, our art, our dance– see the Armenian arts all of it because there are all arts, the food, the music, dance actual you know whatever artist many type but I think that the Christian piece at least for me is also very important as far as identifying who we are because we died for that, do not forget too. When we talk about the genocide that was why many of them did die. They would not deny that piece and become you know Muslim and by the way I have no prejudice against Muslims but they did that for that reason many of them and I just feel it is very critical to continue to keep that piece powerful in our lives and I also think by the way the Christian piece helps us in whatever our challenges are, you know. And I think because the Armenians have been given many challenges I think it is help to keep us strong and keep us going and I want to say even vibrant you know, so I just feel it is critical– number one for me. 22:11 GS: Can you tell me a little bit about your involvement with the Armenian Church and how you feel that is important for making Armenian community. 22:18 LJ: [laughs] Greg do you have three hours for us. 22:20 GS: Tell us as much as you want. 22:23 LJ: Oh, Greg, Oh my God since I was eight years old I would go to the Armenian church since I went to Sunday school. You know I have been involved in every facet, except the men’s groups. I do not know [laughs] what to say. 22:39 GS: Tell us about your role as a leader in the church, you know as an adult. 22:44 LJ: As an adult, oh boy, well I found my way really by ̶ through my own education which was a teacher. I seemed to get involved with kids’ activities more than anything because that is my profession, I am you know a teacher. So, I would get involved with the kids whether it was Sunday school or the ACYOA, I am liaison to two schools, other schools in the building, night school and day school from the council. I have been, I am going to be, you know, retiring very soon. Um, that is my guess that is my first way in and then when I got married, my husband and I got involved in other areas there was a couples’ group then we got involved with that because the women’s guild and I never want to get involved in the politics but somehow I got convinced to run the council, I did. Did that for four years, it was okay. 23:57 GS: Which council are you referring to? 23:58 LJ: Parish Council, the Parish Council of our church, the leadership of our church. I liaisoned for that for at least four years. 24:05 GS: What kinds of responsibilities did you have on Parish Council? 24:08 LJ: I was reporting secretary and liaison like I said to various groups from the church and just do whatever what the council had to do, I took a part whether there was social or a meeting or where else you know I would try to be present and attentive to whatever was happening. 24:26 GS: What is the most important project you have worked on as a member of Parish Council? 24:33 LJ: Oh boy. What we called the renewal committee and it came out of a retreat that the council had. There has been concern that the community needed to expand a little bit more in its familial spiritual way. So, dead hard and I worked on putting together, represent a cross section of the community to come together and see what could come out of it and as a result an outreach team came out of it which is trying to help people in need or respond to a you know community members significant moments for example sending cards for significant moments whether it be good or bad, or giving help with, like we have family that has come from Armenia that we all trying to work on. We raise money for them to help them get an apartment and we were– That has been important, that came out of the renewal team, you now project and then we have, you know fellowship came out of that renewal project which is a spiritual fellowship. We have a couple, new couples group that came of out of it which is kind of of bringing families together. So, and we, I do not know, that to me I think probably was the most significant thing that I was involved in while I was in council. 26:03 GS: What are your views on state on the Armenian diaspora? Do you think that they are several different diasporas in different parts of the world? Do you see the community as one united diaspora? Do you think it is going stronger? Is it at risk of losing its identity? 26:22 LJ: No, the diasporas are very different, and it is the makeup of that diaspora meaning it had a lot to do with assimilation, how much is that diaspora has been assimilated into that country, meaning, you know, American-Armenian, French-Armenian, you know, whatever, they are all over the world, I mean South American Armenians, Canadian Armenians whatever, you know it depends upon the country it is in I think. That is my feeling, and you know how the people have been assimilated into that you know the melting pot of that country you know, like just like the people here–the American-Armenians and those coming from other countries now, it is– the needs are different, the focus can be different, I do not know, I will say this and I am probably going to get excommunicate this statement but I do not think our leadership in Etchmiadzin gets any of that, and I think that unfortunately that leadership needs to really evaluate what is happening in the diaspora. They really need to look and see and allow for the community there to do what is necessary to pull their people in whether it means incorporate, the language of the country they are living in or whatever else it might be. But I feel that, unfortunately, our hierarchy does not get that yet and that is a negative for the diaspora. 28:11 GS: So, you think that assimilation is important for the diaspora? 28:15 LJ: I think not that is important, I think it is part of survival. I think you have to assimilate a little bit. I think you have to blend, I think you, and yet you keep your identity. I am not saying you should not, I am not saying ̶ We have to bring that identity into the country that we are living in and share with the others and yet we are living in a country whether many different cultures and nationalities and we have to understand them as well. You know, I and if it means like I said, taking the language, for example, you know your children, you are not coming to church the way I would love. I mean nobody is from the younger generation and I am very–if you look at the church on Sunday, you really only see the older people there, and I am talking about older people and I am talking about most of people in their seventies, eighties and nineties. I think the church because we are being, we have been assimilated, we are assimilating whatever, and we have to understand that we have to kind of look at the life style of that country and say oh, we have to adapt. You know to keep ourselves alive and pull that country into the mix. You know the American culture into the mix. I do not know if you are getting what I am saying. You know, example, people would not work today; most women work today. It is not what my mother and the older generation. They work today, so they, for them to give that the whole half a day on a Sunday to be at church with their kids is a lot. So maybe we have to change things around. Maybe we have to make the liturgy shorter. Maybe Sunday school is to be shorter. Maybe we have to you know change things a little bit. Maybe we have to incorporate more English in the liturgy; maybe not all the time. Maybe once every couple of months in English liturgy. You know use the Armenian, not saying the Armenian is not important; some things you cannot change anyway for example; hymns cannot be changed but some things like literature can be set in English. So, you know and that would make it more understandable to the younger people. So, I do not know Greg I could go on and on about this. 30:37 GS: Do you see Armenian-American organizations doing a good job of bridging the gap between recently emigrated Armenians and multi-generational Armenian-Americans? Or do you even see a gap between them? 30:52 LJ: There is a lot of work to be done there. I do not see a gap; I think the gap is too large right now. 30:57 GS: Why is that gap there? 30:58 LJ: Say again. 30:59 GS: Why is that gap there? 31:03 LJ: Because, when you come from different countries all around the world, the cultures are different. Even though you are all Armenian, you still have that influence of that country you are coming from the culture is there. It is a different culture, for example, people from people from Highstan when they come to church their idea of going to church, and I have been in Highstan, I have seen it, their idea of going to church is they go in, they drop few dollars in a plate–they take about–they take a number of candles, you know whatever–comparable to their donation whatever it might be. They light the candles, they say the prayer, they stay in church for about five to ten minutes and they are out. That is their idea of worship. Okay, now, people come from Turkey, and their idea of worship is– it is you stay for the service, you do your thing and then you depart, okay, that is fine. And they have different views on service, you know meaning they should not pass around the plate, they should not do– People are coming from different parts of the world where the Armenian Church kind of adapted to that what surround them and they come here with those ideals that oh, no but in Lebanon we did this, no but in Syria we did this. Oh, no but in Turkey we did this, in Armenia we do that. You know, that is what is happening and people do not understand, just not getting it, people are not–no we are not blending well. I do not think we are blending well at all, me personally. 32:37 GS: What advice would you give to future generations of Armenians to maintain their identity and their heritage? 32:50 LJ: What advice would I give? Well here we go. I strongly feel that they should put the Christian piece first and then as they come together to do other things, you know I believe that they should communicate better, meaning they should take the opportunity to discuss more broadly you know what their ideas are, their opinions are whatever, with the leadership of the church community and try and figure out ways to welcome everybody and at the same time make everybody feel comfortable which way may mean compromise. You know, maybe we cannot all do it this way, we cannot all do it that way, but sit around the table and say–and do it as Christians, meaning no bearing, no ill-will, you know, keeping an open-mind, an open-heart and understanding that we are different and as the result of our differences that sometimes we have to be flexible and I guess I can communicate this better. Not yell at one another and not come and shake–point the finger and say you are doing this wrong, you are doing that wrong; not be so judgmental. 34:31 GS: Okay, do you think that the Armenian community could survive in a secular society? 34:42 LJ: Yeah, I think so. 34:45 GS: How it would have to adapt itself? 34:52 LJ: Well, it would have to accept others around them and what they– what others, how others are living and not be judgmental ̶ 35:02 GS: But it would have to maintain its own Christian identity within the secular society? 35:12 LJ: Well its part of the Armenian community that Christian piece ̶ 35:17 GS: Okay, all right, well thank you very much, that is all our questions, we really appreciate your help. 35:22 LJ: Oh, Greg it is my pleasure. Not hard to get me to talk Greg ̶ so. [laughs] 35:30 GS: All right, thank you very much. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lynn Jamie Arifian https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/23ac4353d0f294dc4c4ec7c642c9d908.mp3 11b1bc05c8e1b3572aed56648abdee86 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral Histories Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories from 1960s Binghamton Alumni Description An account of the resource In 2019, Binghamton University Libraries completed a mission to collect oral interviews from 1960s alumni as a means to preserve memories of campus life. The resulting 47 tales are a retrospective of social, professional and personal experiences with the commonality of Harpur College. Some stories tell of humble beginnings, others discuss the formation of friendships; each provides insight into a moment in our community's rich history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Irene Gashurov Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-2018 Relation A related resource <a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/browse?collection=18">McKiernan Interviews : 60's collection of Oral Histories</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 2018-04-04 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Irene Gashurov Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lynne Federman Year of Graduation 1974 Biographical Text For 30 years, Lynn successfully guided institutions under regulatory enforcement actions and helped create and implement anti-money laundering programs. At Harpur, she managed the student-run radio station, WHRW. Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Keywords Harpur College – Seventies alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in the law; Harpur College – Alumni in banking regulation; Harpur College – Alumni at WHRW; Harpur College – Alumni living in Boston Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Subject LCSH Harpur College – Seventies alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in the law; Harpur College – Alumni in banking regulation; Harpur College – Alumni at WHRW; Harpur College – Alumni living in Boston Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Alumni Interviews Interview with: Lynne Federman Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov Transcriber: Oral History Lab Date of interview: 4 April 2018 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) IG: 00:01 Okay, hello. This is Lynne Federman. LF: 00:06 Hi. My name is Lynn Fetterman. We are sitting here in South Boston, Massachusetts, and I am going to talk about my time at SUNY Binghamton. I am 64 years old. I graduated in 1974 I started in September 1970. IG: 00:29 Thank you, so, Lynn, maybe we can begin by your telling us where you grew up and who your parents were. LF: 00:41 I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. My parents were Anne and Murray Fetterman. We lived in Brooklyn my whole life, until we moved to Clifton, New Jersey, where I went to high school. But we had a house in upstate New York, so I was very familiar with upstate New York, and I wanted to go to Binghamton because I knew it was a great university and It was reasonably priced. IG: 01:16 Before we before we discuss your college years, tell us, give us a little bit of background about your family, what they did, where they were from, whether they encouraged your education. LF: 01:34 So my dad was he had his own little business. My mom stayed at home until we were in high school, when she went to work for Peugeot. Their parents, all four of my grandparents, emigrated from Poland, came through Ellis Island. My mom and dad both grew- well my mom grew up in the Lower East Side, and my dad grew up in Brooklyn. And education was greatly encouraged, though it is true that although they encouraged me to go to the best college I could go to, the money was really for the boys my younger brothers. So it was really understood that if there was money for an Ivy League college, that would be for the boys. IG: 02:31 Did they go through an Ivy League college? LF: 02:32 Um, let us see, yeah, my next brother went to Rochester, and my brother after that, I think, went to Hobart for a short time. I think. I do not know. I did apply to Cornell, maybe for scholarship. I did not get in to Cornell undergrad. So I do not know what would have happened if I had gotten in, because I know there was not money to go there, and Binghamton was so reasonably priced, and because we had the house upstate, I got the in-state tuition. IG: 03:03 Did you get a regent scholarship? Do you remember? LF: 03:05 I think I did. I do not remember exactly. IG: 03:09 So did you have a clear idea of what you wanted to study, or were you just attracted by the liberal arts? LF: 03:18 I like the liberal arts in general, but I distinctly remember not really knowing what I wanted to do, but thinking my choices were limited to law or medicine, for some reason, that was my choice for my family, and I did not really like medicine. So I remember distinctly standing in front of the post office boxes in Binghamton, where the student had their post, opening it up and getting my LSAT scores, and knowing that I could go to a good law school. And they did end up going to Cornell Law so I drove from Binghamton to Ithaca that summer to go to Cornell Law School. IG: 03:59 What-what-what are some memorable courses that you took at Harpur College? It was- LF: 04:07 Yeah, I went to Harpur College. I would say my coursework was not as memorable as my extracurricular activities, but I did love my psychology courses. IG: 04:18 Do you remember- LF: 04:19 I do not remember the professor's name, but I did some research for him with mice. That is what I remember, and that was a lot of fun. IG: 04:27 Do you remember what the research? LF: 04:29 I do not remember what we were looking at, but I felt like I was doing some kind of more advanced research for an undergrad. He was doing a lot with graduate students, but he let me do some work as an undergrad, but I really spent more time most of my career at Binghamton, in my memory, was at the radio station, WHRW, so I had a show, and it was a it was a soft rock show, folk rock and. I remember distinctly broadcasting, practicing in front of the mic, picking songs with albums. You had to play the albums like a DJ. I was a DJ, and then becoming more and more involved with the radio station, meeting my husband there, dating the guy who was the-the general manager before me, who is Eric Logan, felt he was the general manager. And then he graduated, I think, after my freshman year. But I started at Binghamton. I was 16, so that was young. I was very-very, young. And what I really remember is orientation, pre orientation, we went camping, which I do not think I had ever gone camping nearby, like maybe on the campus we had, we had pre orientation, camp out. IG: 05:54 Overnight camp ? LF: 05:56 Overnight, yeah, but in my memory, it was near-near the dormitories. Was it Hingham? Hingham? What is the name of the dorms up there? IG: 06:09 So what was, do you remember? What was the point of this- LF: 06:14 Orientation? IG: 06:15 Orientation, well, together and understand, but, but doing it outdoors? LF: 06:20 I think so you can make friends. IG: 06:22 I see, I see. And you did? LF: 06:24 And I did. I made friends. I made got met my first boyfriend there. So that was nice. So then I had a boyfriend, and I had my first roommate, who was so different from me, and you know, she was from the Midwest, she-she was from a military family and we are still friends today. Yeah, I am going to go see her in California. IG: 06:45 Oh, that is lovely. That is lovely. So it was, you know, a broadening kind of experience. LF: 06:55 It was completely different from anything I had ever experienced, but I was extremely diligent. I do not think I missed a class, and my view was, and still is, with my children, if you are paying for it, you might as well take all the classes. So I know I do not think I skipped a class the whole time I was there. Maybe I did, if I was really sick, and I was sick at one point, I was in the infirmary for a month with pneumonia, Yeah. But that, I think, is the only time I miss class. What? IG: 07:25 What was the campus like those days? Was it pretty rural, you know- LF: 07:33 In my mind it was rural. Yeah, I have not been back in quite a number of years, but I remember the last time I was up. I do not remember it. Possibly it was 30 years ago, when my son was little. We brought him back, we took him to the radio station, and he was a little baby. And I thought it was built up then, 30 years ago. So I cannot imagine what it is like. I am trying to get up there this spring. So it is much more built up. Yeah, I would say there was Woods everywhere surrounding the whole campus. IG: 08:07 There still are there. It is a very wooded area. They are peripheral campuses. So you know, what were your- how did you stumble into the radio station, not having had prior experience. LF: 08:23 I am trying to remember how I got there. I think I literally stumbled in looking for some activity to do. And, you know, hanging out at the Student Center was fun. And then I think I stumbled upon, I do not know, the first time I entered the radio station, but then it was my life, and I remember when I was running for general manager. I just remember, like, just roaming around various dormitories, trying not to pay attention while people were voting, and then someone, I guess we did not have cell phones, but somehow, I called in and I found out that I had become the general manager, and that was a big experience, really. IG: 09:06 How old were you? But what-what- LF: 09:08 It was my senior year. So I started when I was 16. [inaudible] so I was between 19 and 20. IG: 09:16 Very young. And how large was the radio staff? LF: 09:20 Dozens, in my recollection, were dozens of people. IG: 09:23 What kind of- LF: 09:23 And they were much more professional type of DJs, radio people at that time. But I think I was the only one who wanted to handle the business end and, you know, get the money work on the budget, deal with the people. But that really gave me a grounding in, you know, the huge budgets I handled later in my life and the amount of people I managed that, that was the grounding there. IG: 09:50 That is very much [inaudible] so, you know, it is, it is, it is actually very remarkable that you were attracted to that. End of the radio enterprise, right? Because most people want to be DJs. LF: 10:06 Yeah. I also had a little show, but it was very terrifying being on the air for me. So I did not, you know, I loved it, and I was scared of it. Yeah, some people are natural. They just love to talk on the radio. But that was not my was not my main thing. IG: 10:21 What is it then? LF: 10:23 Like now, I like the socializing. IG: 10:26 So what was your little show? You said- LF: 10:29 it was a folk it was folk rock. I am trying to remember the name of it, but my theme song, I think, was Brown Eyed Girl. I think that that was the theme song, and it was fun. But, you know, I was really into having people do the news and special projects and, you know, we did have a lot of classical programming. But again, I have not been back. You know, I stay in touch with some of the people, but have not been able to go to any of the reunions. Maybe I will go now. IG: 11:04 We hope you do. What was tell us a little bit about the programming and what, what role you played in deciding- LF: 11:14 Oh, we had meetings. We wanted to have public broadcast programming. We could bring in shows real and you know, NPR shows, right that time, we could import them and use them, but we tried to have our own reporting, if possible, campus reporting, local reporting, but it was hard, because she had to get kids who to be reporters, right? Well, mostly it was music. IG: 11:37 It was much music- LF: 11:38 Jazz, classical, rock. IG: 11:41 What kind of what kind of reporting did you do? It was so it was Binghamton, LF: 11:47 Yes, local campus. IG: 11:49 Campus. Do you remember stories? [crosstalk] Do you remember stories? [crosstalk] Do you think that what was- LF: 11:57 I think it lost Because we did not record any of it. IG: 12:00 You did not record any of it? LF: 12:01 Yeah, I do not think it occurred to us. Or if we did, I would have no idea where they are. No idea. Do you know the name Ron Drumm? Excuse me, Ron Drumm. IG: 12:11 No, that I have not encountered the name. LF: 12:13 Yeah, he, he was around for years in in my recollection, he possibly was- had graduated while I was there, and then stuck around for a long time in Binghamton. And I think they let him stay on the radio. Ron drum, D, R, U, M, M. I could try to find him for you. IG: 12:35 What were some of the issues in that you were talking about? What was in the air, politically, culturally. I mean, you were playing music, which is so much a part of the- LF: 12:46 Yeah, I think [crosstalk] focus, right, a huge focus. I do not remember being, you know, politically active in terms of any wars, or where we were in terms of overseas actions or the Vietnam War. I mean, in high school, I remember protesting the Vietnam War. I do not remember doing anything in Binghamton, trying to remember when it was over. When was the war over? IG: 13:16 In the early- LF: 13:18 In the (19)60s? IG: 13:19 No in the- LF: 13:20 (19)70s. IG: 13:20 No, the (19)70s. LF: 13:21 So we must have been doing some of that, but I really do not have a recollection. I remember working for McCarthy, but that was high school. IG: 13:31 Working for? LF: 13:32 McCarthy. IG: 13:33 The 20- LF: 13:35 No, when he was running for president, Gene McCarthy was running for President. IG: 13:40 That would make sense. LF: 13:41 Yeah, that is the political stuff. But I do not remember political we were a bit removed up there in Binghamton. I think we all felt it. It was such a- IG: 13:50 But you were New York City kids. LF: 13:52 All New York City kids, you know- IG: 13:54 With the exception of your roommate from the Midwest. LF: 13:57 Right-right. But these were New York City born and bred, kids. IG: 14:03 So, you know, you were kind of more in touch- LF: 14:06 And she, and she might have been, most recently from Long Island. IG: 14:09 I see. I see. LF: 14:10 That is my roommate. IG: 14:12 You know, you were in touch and, and I am just, I am just trying to get a-an understanding of the climate, of the cultural climate, what, you know, you were playing this music, and did you have any- LF: 14:28 We were, I think we were, we went to we went to class. I think there was a fair amount of marijuana. You know, I smoked a little bit, not a lot, but we were post Woodstock, right, just after Woodstock, so it was kind of, I think it was still kind of Hippieish. IG: 14:49 Yeah, you were caught up by that fervor of the late (19)60s. You know, the you were the tail end of that (19)60s generation. And all that it represented. Did you buy into it? LF: 15:03 Absolutely. IG: 15:04 So what-what- LF: 15:04 Absolutely. IG: 15:05 What did it represent to you? LF: 15:09 Really, a feeling of optimism that we could accomplish a lot if we just wanted to, and we could have fun at the same time. But for me, I felt like I had to work hard. We all felt we had to work hard. Pretty much everyone I knew got real jobs, good jobs, corporate, academic, teaching, medicine, law, these were the jobs we got. You know, I feel like the generation now, my kids, 50-50, you know, friends, you know, some of them really want good jobs. Some want to work off the grid now, but I felt like we all felt like we had to get real jobs with real paychecks. IG: 15:56 I think that is more true of Binghamton students, rather than the interim generation. And do you think that in some sense, you know you said that you were optimistic and-and was your kind of youth culture bound up in music? Was, was that your way expressing [crosstalk] LF: 16:20 I think [crosstalk] to find the music. IG: 16:22 Rebelliousness as well? LF: 16:24 Yeah, I think it was defined by music. Maybe start for me, starting with Woodstock, because I was so young at Woodstock. IG: 16:30 And we would love to hear about your experience at Woodstock. LF: 16:35 So that summer, the summer of (19)69 I was a rising senior in high school, and when I was a junior in high school, I was accepted to Cornell's summer program, and I took organic chemistry, which I passed, but it pretty much told me I was not going to medicine, but I remember being in Ithaca and hearing that the site of Woodstock had changed from Woodstock, New York, to White Lake, New York to Max Yasgur's farm. And my house, my parents’ house upstate, was right next to White Lake, and I knew Max Yasgur's farm. And I said, “There is no way I heard it on the radio, thinking, oh man, there is nothing there. It is a cow pasture. They cannot have a rock concert, and there is no access. And I said, “But good for me, I can go, because I can walk from my house to Woodstock.” And that is, that is what we did at the end of the summer, when I left Ithaca, I went to-to near Monticello, which is White Lake. And Small Wood was the name of the town right next to White Lake where our house was since I was a little girl, and we probably had 25 people sleeping on our property, camping out friends and friends of friends, and that road that you see in the in the movie 17 B was just jammed, but all of the local residents worked together to support the crowd in terms of water and food. And it was, it was an it was like an invasion. And I think my father prohibited me from going, but I went anyway, and I had my girlfriend was with me, but we did it in a very nice way, because we could go in the morning, listen to the music all day, and then go home and not have to sleep in the mud, slept in my bed, ate my mother's food, and that was a lot a lot of fun. But my brothers also went. My little brother, I think was if I was 15, maybe he was 11, and he went with my brother, who was maybe 13, unsupervised. So he has written something about that, which is hysterical. IG: 18:55 I would love to see it, actually. LF: 18:56 Yeah, let me see if I can get it for you. I have not seen it in a long time, but I do not know if he is publishing it, but he cannot believe that our parents let him go at 11 to Woodstock. IG: 19:07 And then there was no and there was no prohibition of your younger brothers going. But yet your father had [crosstalk] LF: 19:15 Right. He must have changed his mind because, because I was going no matter. IG: 19:21 And he had no way of anticipating what, what was going to happen, what it would be. So, what did you see? LF: 19:27 [crosstalk] I saw all of, you know, all of the acts I saw, Joe Cocker, I do not remember a lot of the actual songs, and I was very happy I did not have to sleep there. It was kind of yucky and rainy and muddy. IG: 19:41 Did you like the music? LF: 19:43 I love them. I love that. I still love them. You know, I am not the kind of aficionado that you know my friends are. I still, I still love it. IG: 19:54 So you saw Joe Cocker. Do you remember who- which other singers you saw? LF: 19:58 I do not remember, you know, when I watched the movie, I remember, you know, I did not prep for this interview, but it was really, really fun. I mean, generally- IG: 20:09 1000s of-of young people. LF: 20:12 Hundreds of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s. IG: 20:16 Hundreds of hundreds. LF: 20:17 I mean, have you ever, did you ever seen the movie? IG: 20:19 Oh, yes, yeah. LF: 20:20 So I think so it is half a million strong. IG: 20:22 Half a million strong. This- that is remarkable. And was this, LF: 20:26 And it was all very- [crosstalk] IG: 20:27 True. Well, I mean, you are from New York City, so you have seen crowds before. You did not shy away from a crowd. LF: 20:32 Yes, this was unbelievable. It was literally Unbelievable. How many people there were and- IG: 20:39 And they were all young. LF: 20:41 Everybody was young. There was no in my-my recollection, there was nobody old. IG: 20:45 Did was that a life changing experience to be amidst so many young people, and they all stood for something, even if it was- LF: 20:53 It was love of rock and roll IG: 20:55 Articulated. LF: 20:56 Yeah, but it was something else, but it was positive. There was no, there was none of this kind of negativity that we have now in public discourse. IG: 21:06 Right, which is dark and- LF: 21:08 Dark and horrible. [crosstalk] Yeah. So in my mind, it was much, much more positive. IG: 21:13 Was there an idea that music maybe could change the world to a better place? LF: 21:17 Yeah, yeah, because it was so positive and fun, and really, really fun. I mean, that is what I am remembering, is that we just had so much fun, and I went back for the second day. I am trying to remember exactly who I heard, but I cannot. But, you know, I think that also set me on a course of wanting to see rock and roll the rest of my life. You know, so that I did not do as much as I could, because I had the kids, right, but I always wanted to, and then when the kids were older, you know, I went to see the Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen, of course. But no, I can distinctly remember seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan that I have a clear memory of in the (19)60s in my parents’ bedroom and just being mesmerized. IG: 22:09 Yes. LF: 22:09 Why? I have no idea of a completely mesmerized. IG: 22:12 What was the reaction that your parents had to them? LF: 22:15 They were fine about it. I mean, we were very I think in (19)64, I was 11, so they were not worried, or concerned. IG: 22:23 They were not worried or concerned as well. LF: 22:26 They were concerned about Woodstock, just in terms of fearing panic and stampede, because there were so many people knowing. And here is I have also a distinct memory of standing with my mother. My mother was very friendly with the doctor in White Lake. And I remember she and I were standing in the-the parking lot of the school in White Lake, the middle school, I think it was and waving down helicopters who were medevacking people out. You know, people have been sick or overdosed or- IG: 23:00 Overdosed, yeah. LF: 23:01 So I know she was working closely with the doctor at the time, just thinking in terms of Woodstock. IG: 23:08 But that did not happen- LF: 23:10 During- IG: 23:11 -on the first day. LF: 23:12 No-no, it was like the second or the third- IG: 23:14 And then they-they probably did not let you return on the third day, or- LF: 23:19 No, I remember going two days, not- IG: 23:20 Two days maybe not the third day. LF: 23:23 But it was, I know it was not scary for me. It was a lot of fun. Now, maybe I would be scared to go into a big, big, big crowd. IG: 23:33 You know, you-you could not have anticipated- LF: 23:34 I should go to the Women's March. IG: 23:36 What-what was that like? LF: 23:38 The Women's March here in Boston? IG: 23:40 Oh, this is just recently. LF: 23:41 Yeah, no, the Woman's March in January after Trump was elected. And every time I am in a big crowd like that, which is not often, I will think, "Oh, this is reminds me of Woodstock" Absolutely, especially if it has a positive energy to it. IG: 23:57 Good for you. And so feminism was, you know, an incipient kind of movement in the early (19)70s that I know. What was that- did that affect you directly? Do you feel during those years? LF: 24:15 Did I benefit from it? Absolutely. IG: 24:17 Yeah. LF: 24:17 Absolutely. IG: 24:19 But were you [crosstalk] LF: 24:20 But I never, yes, I was aware of feminism, but I also felt, maybe from my parents, you know, except for the money issue and the money, you know, goes through the boys, otherwise, I could do anything I wanted, you know. And I felt I could do anything I wanted. And I did, you know, with my career, I just kind of cut through a lot of the crap, and- IG: 24:42 Well tell us about that, and especially how you cut through the crap, because I think that- LF: 24:48 I ended up going to law school from the time in front of the box off the post office boxes in Binghamton, and seeing that I had a good LSAT score, which with my good enough grades would get me into law school. And I did get into Cornell Law. I said, I remember opening. I am going, "Oh, I can be a lawyer." I had no huge interest in being a lawyer, but then I got it, I grew the interest. So then I yeah, and I went to, I must have worked that summer in Binghamton. What did I do? I stayed in Binghamton the summer after senior year. So I must have done something. IG: 25:28 Were you working? LF: 25:29 I must have been working, maybe for a professor. I cannot remember exactly, because I remember packing my stuff. I did not go back to Jersey, packing up, driving the hour from Binghamton to Ithaca. IG: 25:44 Was it a world of difference taking [crosstalk] LF: 25:48 [crosstalk] an Ivy League school? Yeah-yeah. It was. It had a different vibe to it, completely different. But it was also law school, so it was much more serious. You know, I do not remember classes being a focus in Binghamton. I know I went to all of them, but, you know, can I really remember them? Not that much. If I went back, would I, you know, I, you know, youth is wasted on the young. You have heard that. So I wish I can go to Binghamton now, take courses there now when I would appreciate them more. But when I went to Cornell Law School, it was so tough, you know, then I just worked all the time. I did not do any extracurricular stuff the first year. The second year was a little better, and I worked. I remember, I got a job at Willard Straight Hall, which is the Student Center, and I was the manager of the student center. So I could, you know, student manager at night, so I could study, and I was in charge of all the undergraduates who were working there. So that was fun. IG: 26:56 So you, you enjoyed this managerial you got the taste of managing, from- LF: 27:03 From being a manager in Binghamton, [crosstalk] But also, I could study, and it was very quiet at the Student Center. IG: 27:09 That is what appealed to you. LF: 27:10 Yeah. And there were undergrads actually staffing the desks and rooms and the various activities. And I would just wander around every once in a while, and I was there if there was a crisis, an emergency, but mostly I could stay in the office and study for law school, which was so much work and so much reading, a lot of reading. IG: 27:28 Yeah, I could imagine I have friends who come to law school. So you were there for three years and LF: 27:38 And then I went right to New York. IG: 27:40 You went right- and tell us a little bit about this trajectory of your career, but also with a view to maybe mentioning the instances where you cut through the bullshit and how you did that, because that is informative. LF: 27:56 Well, in terms of feminism or just being, you know, just- IG: 28:00 I think it- LF: 28:01 -doing- IG: 28:01 -it goes hand in hand, right? Feminism and, LF: 28:04 Yeah-yeah, I did not feel maybe just because I was in the perfect year when they were opening up, you know, the law school for women, and then law firms were looking for women. IG: 28:15 Cornell opened its law school for women. LF: 28:18 No opening up the classes. More and more women were, I was not the first woman at Cornell. IG: 28:23 Of course. LF: 28:25 But I was there. I do not think there were 50 percent women in my class by any means. I think they are up to 50 percent now. IG: 28:32 And at that time they had, maybe- LF: 28:35 I would have [crosstalk]s it was more than a handful. [crosstalk] was not 50 percent but there were a number of women, but I did not feel like I was owed the woman. There were other-other girls there. I had a great roommate, also from New York, upstate New York. I am still friends with her, but we were very-very different. IG: 28:55 What part of the law that you studied? LF: 28:57 I just studied everything. IG: 28:58 Everything. LF: 28:59 The general [crosstalk] and then I wanted to do litigation, and I got a job coming out of law school, with the help of my law professors, I could not- I do not think I could maybe get a job all by myself. I got a summer job with the help of my professor--came down to New York, lived in New Jersey with my parents. One summer, I stayed in Ithaca, and I did research with a law professor on gambling that was fun and esoteric. So, you know, I have pretty strong views on gambling, which is, you know, attacks on the poor, big tax, especially casinos and lotteries, just rips off poor people. Really. It is horrible. IG: 29:42 I would love to hear about that. I never thought I would never and I do not gamble, but, you know, it is but LF: 29:50 Especially underprivileged, poor people will take their last dollar and buy a lottery ticket. IG: 29:54 I see, I see, in that way. LF: 29:55 -in the hope- IG: 29:56 Yes, in the hope. LF: 29:57 Hit it big. IG: 29:57 Of course, of course. LF: 29:58 About my view about gambling, and maybe I learned this from my professors, that you should take the dollar, put it in the toilet, have some fun while it swirls around. Have fun watching it go down the toilet, because that is the same as buying a lottery ticket. Chances of winning. And, you know, casinos just suck money out of people. So he was pretty anti-gambling, but he was working on gambling laws, and that was a lot of fun. And then I got a really good job, because I went to Cornell Law School, not because I was that smart, and also, with the help of my law professors, and I went to be a litigator. That was (19)77 and I did a couple of law firm jobs, (19)77 to (19)81. IG: 30:44 Where were they? LF: 30:46 Yeah, I was with a firm called Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, which is very white shoe, waspy and had a lot of fun there. Learned a lot about big litigations. But, you know, I was a kid. I was a tiny little kid still friendly with those people. And then I went to a very small firm because I knew I would not be a partner there called Hertzog, Calamari and Gleason; I was there for a couple years. That was also a lot of fun, but a lot of work. And then I knew I want to get married and have children, so it would be better to be in a bigger firm which had better policies for that. So around (19)81 I got married and went to a big law firm, and then had my first kid in (19)8- IG: 31:32 What was the big law firm? LF: 31:35 I am sorry, I went in house. I was at a big law firm first, then a little law firm, and then I went in house. That is what I meant in house counsel, meaning I worked for Chase, Manhattan Bank. IG: 31:45 Oh wow. LF: 31:46 So I was in the legal department of Chase, and I remember my grandmother up near Woodstock right when I told her I was thinking about taking this big job in you know, would not be as much money, but it would be an in a big corporation as a junior person in the litigation area, and she said, it is good to hitch your wagon to a big horse. IG: 32:12 That is, I have heard variations [inaudible] LF: 32:14 It is good to hitch your wagon to a big horse. So then- IG: 32:18 That is a great expression. LF: 32:19 Yeah. So then I was at Chase Manhattan Bank, which became JP Morgan Chase, and I was there 24 years and three months, IG: 32:27 That is my bank. LF: 32:28 That is your bank. That is a good bank. IG: 32:29 It is a very good bank. LF: 32:31 And I went from being the junior-junior person in litigation, and then I had a team, and we did nothing but subpoena compliance, which means the bank would get subpoenas, we would have to supply the records and the witnesses. So I did that for years, and then I started to get interest interested in money laundering, and I described it as I was doing the main work I was given. But on the side of my desk, I was helping the bank with money laundering problems, and I was studying the money laundering laws on my own because they were so interesting. And then there reached a point in time, you know, I started doing that in the (19)80s and the (19)90s, and then the late (19)90s, I went to the general counsel before September 11. September 11 is definitely a sticking point. You know, it is a mark, it is a demarcation. It is before and after. But before September 11, I went to General Counsel and said, "We do not have anyone who does anti-money laundering compliance all the other banks do. Why do not we?" And he said, I said, "Let us go to Washington. Let us hire like the head of the SEC and he can become the head of money laundering here." And he looked at me and he said, "I want you to do it." I had no interest or thought that I would do it zero. But he looked at me and said, "I want you to do it." I said, "I do not want to do it," because at that time, there was a big difference between being a lawyer, which had prestige and money being a compliance officer. You needed a law degree to be a lawyer. You needed a BA to be a compliance officer. You could be a lawyer, but you could be a compliance officer with a law degree, but you could not be a lawyer without a law degree. I said, "I do not want to do it." He said, "I want you to think about it." I thought about it. I said, "Well, if he wants me to do it, maybe I should do it." I came back and I said, "I want a big raise. I want." And he was very strict. His name is Bill McDavid. I said, "I want a big raise. I want a big title, and I want a big bonus." He said, "No-no-no, but do it for a year, and then we will talk," yeah, so I trusted him. IG: 34:42 Yes. LF: 34:42 I did it. I never looked back. And I became the head of it is called AML, anti-money laundering and terrorist financing in around 2000 and then we had September 11, and I was at my at my office on September 11, and I-I was an initial user of the Blackberry. Do you remember the Blackberry? IG: 35:05 Yes. LF: 35:05 So I was what was called a beta user because of my ex-husband’s business. So I was running from the towers and typing messages to my husband at the time, and that is published in the New York Times. You can look it up if you Google me, portions of my transcript were published in the time, so we can look it up now. I can actually send you the full transcript. IG: 35:28 Yeah, I would love to see it. LF: 35:29 Yeah. Do you want to take a little tiny break? Because I do not do it now. I will forget but have never looked at. Can I send it to you privately? IG: 35:39 Yes. LF: 35:41 Okay. [crosstalk] IG: 35:44 We were at 9/11/(2001). LF: 35:49 Running-running and typing. IG: 35:50 But prior to that, you were a compliance officer for your bank. LF: 35:56 So I was a compliance officer, and that is what I have been since then. So I was very lucky in my career that I had a good mentor who told me to do it. I did it because I trusted him. And I worked at Chase until another bank was in trouble for money laundering violations, and then I went there to the other bank, which was ABN AMRO Dutch Bank, and they were in so much trouble, and I helped them. And because they wanted me to leave Chase after 24 years and three months, just short of a pension, they gave me a significant incentive so that I could retire. After I worked there for three years, that was my first retirement. Then then then I retired and traveled, and then I got bored, then I went back to work, then I retired, then I got bored, and I went back to work, and that is how I ended up in Boston. IG: 36:49 What-what are, you know, the most important, you know, abilities to become a compliance officer for big banks. What-what has served you in doing this work? LF: 37:07 Being able to pay attention to detail and IG: 37:10 To financial detail? LF: 37:12 Not even well, detail of all kinds. I am not so great. I am, you know, people think I know how- about bank accounts--I know a little bit. I do not know that much about money, but I do know about managing people. You know, it is really important to be a good manager once you rise up in these levels. And I was quite senior, not just by age. And, you know, I think I did learn a lot of that in Binghamton. I have to say. It is a direct line. IG: 37:40 It was a direct line, and it was your first exposure to being- LF: 37:41 To being a manager, being responsible for a budget, creating a budget, implementing a budget, creating a plan, implementing a plan, a work plan, you know to do it before. You know now it is far more complex with many programs that are supposed to help you, but you know, we really had to learn from the ground up. We did back then. And now, you know that I was doing it for several big banks. It became easier and easier IG: 38:16 Well, and the people skills, I think, remain the same, or they become more refined, of course, over time. LF: 38:24 I do think you need people skills, and that brings a lot of people down if they because they do not have people skills. And it is just dealing with people, you know, I used to call them my day family and my night family, and I think I was kind of the same with everybody. I tried to always be true to my basic self, and same with my kids, husband, workers, bosses, judges, lawyers, everybody, try to be the same. IG: 38:51 Well, you must have had a very strong sense of self. LF: 38:55 You know such a strong sense of self, but a good sense of maybe right and wrong and how you should be, . I think, I do not know. I think so. And now I retired again. I think it is third or fourth time in May, and I am just doing volunteer work now for José Mateo Ballet Theatre, which is something I wanted to talk about that, because at the ballet. We say everyone has a dance story. And my dance story started in Binghamton. So my first roommate in 1970 when I started was Linda Berry. Still friendly with Linda. I am going to go see her in the spring, and later in the spring, in California, where she lives, she might be a good person to talk to. also. She has had a pretty interesting career. She went, you know, West, but when we were kids in Binghamton, she was a dancer, and she was part of the first dance troupe with Bill T. Jones. Do you know Bill T. Jones? IG: 40:00 Yes, he is a graduate, is not he? LF: 40:03 He is a graduate, and he is, of course, extremely famous, and he is a MacArthur Genius. But in the beginning it was Bill T. Jones and Arnie Zane, his partner--Arnie, has passed away many years ago, but his company is still call Bill T. Jones and Arnie Zane and Linda and another woman whose name I forgot, they recently had a reunion in Binghamton, but it was kept very quiet because they did not want a lot of press. And I think Bill did show up, but again, it was quiet because if Bill shows up, then there is a lot of press, because he is quite famous, and if you have ever seen him dance, it is amazing. And his company, you know, he is older now, so I do not think he I do not know if he dances. I saw him, spoke to him recently at a performance, but that really started my love of dance. And watching them dance was so amazing, just amazing. So then I became, you know, consumer of dance. I would go to dance performances in New York, and again, not so much when the kids were little, but then I could really indulge my desire. And a year and a half ago, I met Jose Matteo, who is the choreograph choreographer for Jose Matteo Ballet Theater in Boston. But that was just random. I was not looking for him. I met him at a party. He graduated from Princeton in (19)74 like I graduated from Binghamton in (19)74 and I said, I am going to retire again. I want to work with you. So I am on the board, and I do a lot of work, and that is where I have to go today, because we are getting ready. I am putting together a big fundraiser for him. And so now I go to a lot of dance. I went to 27--I worked for Jose 27 Nutcracker performances during the Christmas season. I took a day off, and I know this sounds crazy, I went to see the Nutcracker at the Boston Ballet. So the Boston Ballet is our main ballet company in Boston, kind of like American Ballet Theater, and it has, it has much greater budget, and it is a much higher level than Jose, but Jose really provides accessible, inclusive ballet, which I love, really, really love. So that is, that is how I am spending a lot of my time. And I have a big party coming up Thursday, but tonight, Boston Ballet, that is tomorrow. I wonder what I am going to and also, so I do tend to overdo dance right now. Alvin Ailey was just here. You know Alvin Ailey? IG: 42:41 Yes, of course. LF: 42:42 So I run. I realized he comes to Boston and I have to go to New York. I go at least two times when he is here. Instead of having a season like a New York season, he has a week along. IG: 42:53 I see and-and your role is in fundraising. For them, you have parties, you have- LF: 42:58 Fundraising and behind the scenes and [inaudible] performances. IG: 43:01 How interesting. How interesting. So did this- LF: 43:03 It is fun. IG: 43:04 It is fun. So I know that we are running out of time. Are there any- LF: 43:10 I am happy to talk more [inaudible] with you. IG: 43:15 But for now, do you have any- you know what-what are some of the most important lessons that you have learned from your college years at Binghamton that you can share with our listeners who are most likely to be students that would help them in their careers? LF: 43:42 I would say, maintain optimism, kindness, right, being kind to people. I really, really try to be kind. And when I taught my kids, I know it sounds silly, it is nice to be nice. It was a pretty basic theme growing up, and I felt it in Binghamton also, you know, be nice to people. You want them to be nice to you. Be nice to them. It does not always work, but I think people, if you are steady, they see it and act accordingly, not always. You know, there is always going to be somebody at work that is horrible. But I was actually talking to a young person I met yesterday at a party, they are having a hard time at work, and the people are horrible. I said, "Well, try to let them just go over your head. Do not engage, right? Like water off a duck's back." Try to do that. Try to see their point of view. It is not always easy. I think I learned a lot of that being again, yeah, a lot of fun. And the other thing I want to tell you before we stop is that I spent a lot of time with Andy Plump. I do not know where Andy is now, but he was the editor of the pipe dream, and he was my boyfriend when I was at the radio station. So we had the radio station, and then his roommate was Michael Feigenheimer. Do you know that name? IG: 45:02 Yeah. LF: 45:04 Mike might have changed his name, but he was Mike Feigenheimer when he was in Binghamton, and he was the president of the student body. So between the president of student body, the head of pipe dream, and the head of we like controlled the media and the student body, but we all laughed about it, because there was no real any, no real power or control. There is no real anything. IG: 45:23 I think it is best to be president of body that has no control. LF: 45:30 And I also remember, I remember talking with who was the president at that time. He was really nice to me, the president of Binghamton. IG: 45:38 I think I know the name. LF: 45:39 Dean somebody, no, there was, I would have to come up [inaudible]. IG: 45:45 So there was a culture of niceness, you know. Not- LF: 45:48 My recollection- IG: 45:48 Not only intellectual- LF: 45:50 And generosity, sharing and all of that stuff, you know. And was it because we were all kind of hippies? I do not know. IG: 46:00 It might have been part of the (19)60s culture. LF: 46:04 I should ask my ex-husband, who was, you know, in Binghamton also with me. His name is Joe Korb, K-O-R-B but I can reach out to him and see if he wants to participate. IG: 46:17 No, I do not know. LF: 46:17 I am just throwing out these names- IG: 46:17 Right-right. IG: 46:17 Yes. LF: 46:17 I have no idea he does. He has also a very good memory of those years. And he graduated a year before me, I think, or a semester before me. So, you know, we started dating then, and we were together about 40 years, and we divorced, so we are still courteous. It was, it was a good period, you know it set the foundation for the rest of life. Maybe I will go back. Do you know Mike Needles? LF: 46:40 Now, Mike is, he was not, he is younger, a little bit younger. He was not there during that period. But I think he was on some-some committees. He was he was asking me to come up and visit. So maybe I will do that. IG: 47:00 Okay, I certainly will look up. So do we have any concluding remarks? Or do you think that we are done for now? LF: 47:07 Concluding remarks in terms of the influence of the (19)60s? IG: 47:12 In terms of the influence of Harpur College, you any words of advice, any life lessons that you would like to share you already spoke about- LF: 47:21 [crosstalk] great, but it was a nurturing, inclusive environment, and that set the tone for now. Living in the dorm was amazing. I had never lived away from home. Well, I have been away for some summer things, but not much, and then all of a sudden, you are totally free. You can do whatever you want. There was not, I do not remember storm restrictions. Felt like anybody could sleep with anybody or do anything they wanted. IG: 47:49 That that is a very different Harpur College than the one described by- LF: 47:54 The earlier (19)60s. IG: 47:55 The earlier (19)60s. LF: 47:56 By the time I got there in (19)70 things were changed. Maybe I am remembering wrong, but that is my recollection. IG: 48:03 That certainly is very different from the (19)60s graduates. LF: 48:07 Because they remember the- IG: 48:09 They were restricted, restrictive environment. Exactly LF: 48:12 No, I think I was just there at a good time. Really good time. So thank you. IG: 48:18 Well, thank you very much. LF: 48:19 Happy to talk more and- IG: 48:21 Okay. LF: 48:22 I will try to send you the World Trade Center document. IG: 48:26 I would love them. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lynne Federman Subject The topic of the resource Harpur College – Seventies alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in the law; Harpur College – Alumni in banking regulation; Harpur College – Alumni at WHRW; Harpur College – Alumni living in Boston Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Federman, Lynne ; Gashurov, Irene Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource For 30 years, Lynn successfully guided institutions under regulatory enforcement actions and helped create and implement anti-money laundering programs. At Harpur, she managed the student-run radio station, WHRW. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-04-04 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Lynne Federman.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2018-04-04 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni Extent The size or duration of the resource. 48:26 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/507981549ed7975e64bb7f91d5fb440c.mp3 5544de15fc704988f13922a3eb9e5574 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/fa0c602798e8bea6ea32b5c66446a70a.jpg 6825097cbca85f77b53c009858618a06 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral Histories Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories from 1960s Binghamton Alumni Description An account of the resource In 2019, Binghamton University Libraries completed a mission to collect oral interviews from 1960s alumni as a means to preserve memories of campus life. The resulting 47 tales are a retrospective of social, professional and personal experiences with the commonality of Harpur College. Some stories tell of humble beginnings, others discuss the formation of friendships; each provides insight into a moment in our community's rich history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Irene Gashurov Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-2018 Relation A related resource <a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/browse?collection=18">McKiernan Interviews : 60's collection of Oral Histories</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 2018-02-19 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Irene Gashurov Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed M. David Graubard Year of Graduation 1966 Biographical Text David was an attorney at Kera & Graubard, specializing in bankruptcy, insolvency, Chapter 11, and debtor and creditor rights. He grew up in Monticello, New York. Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Keywords Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Subject LCSH Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Alumni Interviews Interview with: David Graubard Interviewed by: Irene Gashurov Transcriber: Oral History Lab Date of interview: 19 February 2018 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) DG: 00:01 And now it is recording. IG: 00:02 Oh, it is recording. Fantastic-fantastic. DG: 00:05 Okay. IG: 00:07 So finally, sorry about that. [laughs] Okay, so um, for the purposes of this interview um, please state your name, your age and where we are and what we are doing. DG: 00:23 Sure. I am David Graubard, 73 years old, in my office at 7118 Main Street in Flushing, New York. 11367, we are here to work on an all an oral history of the 1960s. IG: 00:38 Yes. DG: 00:40 Right? IG: 00:40 Yes. DG: 00:41 Okay. IG: 00:41 Okay, so please tell me, David, where you grew up? Where were you born? DG: 00:47 Born and grew up in Monticello, New York. IG: 00:48 Oh. Um- DG: 00:49 Halfway between Binghamton and New York. IG: 00:54 Yes, yes. I know where it is exactly. So, who were your parents are they- DG: 01:01 My parents were- IG: 01:02 Where did they come from? DG: 01:04 They- my- they were both- I went to the same high school that my both my parents went to. IG: 01:09 Oh, really in Monticello? DG: 01:10 In Monticello. Most of them were raised in Monticello. Cannot say born, but they were raised in months in the Monticello area. My mother was raised in the formative years in White Lake, New York, my father from Monticello itself. IG: 01:25 And were they, you know, second, first, third generation Americans? DG: 01:33 My father was a second generation American. Actually, were first generation American. He was born in the Bronx. My grandparents were born overseas. My mother was actually born overseas. She came very as a one-year-old. IG: 01:48 May I ask, Eastern Europe, or Germany or DG: 01:52 Eastern Europe. My mother was born in a place called Barandovich, which was in Poland, White Russia depends upon the year. IG: 02:00 Right. DG: 02:00 And my father's family came from Romania. IG: 02:06 Very interesting. So um, did your parents go to college? DG: 02:13 No. IG: 02:13 What was their what was their occupation? DG: 02:16 My father was a salesman. He grew up- interesting. He wanted to go to college to become an accountant. And my grandfather, may he rest in peace, said, you have the family business to go into, which was a wholesale food line and in Monticello. And that is what he did. And my mother was a homemaker and a good one at that, and also bookkeeper in my father's business. And she came, later on, she came a dental assistant, and she works- IG: 02:42 Also, in Monticello. They stayed there? DG: 02:43 Oh, yeah. IG: 02:44 Okay, so were- what were their expectations for you about going on to- DG: 02:51 They very much wanted. Heard their children to go to college. An older brother who went to Ithaca college on a dramatic scholarship. He did not graduate, but he got into the computer business way back when, when it was in the early (19)60s, when the late (19)60s, when it was first coming into vogue. He worked for Bank of America. And my sister graduated, graduated from [inaudible] college. And my uncle, may he rest in peace, was a lawyer, and they wanted to- I wanted to be a lawyer like he was. IG: 03:22 The uncle was in Monticello or in New York City? DG: 03:25 No-no, in New York City. IG: 03:27 So, you had frequent contact with New York City. DG: 03:32 Oh, yeah, yes. IG: 03:32 So, education was valued in your family. DG: 03:36 Very much so. IG: 03:37 So, what were your reasons for going to Harpur rather than to City College or, you know, NYU- DG: 03:44 Uh, we had Harpur was I got a state scholarship, which covered the tuition. It was, you know, within a two-hour drive from my home in Monticello. That was it, basically. IG: 03:58 But why Harpur College rather than Albany or Buffalo? DG: 04:03 Harpur has a very, very good reputation, excellent reputation, and guys always fooled around you. If you slur that, people think you said Harvard, but [crosstalk] [laughter] IG: 04:18 [crosstalk] That is very funny. [crosstalk] DG: 04:21 Yes, that was really funny. IG: 04:24 So-so it had- and when did you graduate? Just for the purpose of the interview. DG: 04:29 1966. IG: 04:31 In 1966. So, the reputation of the College was established in the early (19)60s, or was it just- DG: 04:40 Very much so. IG: 04:41 Very much so. DG: 04:42 It was, it was, it was a pearl of the state system. IG: 04:44 And what was it known for Harpur College, before you went there? What-what-what-what did people say about it? It was a pearl of the state system. DG: 04:55 You got a good education. IG: 04:57 You got a good education. Did any of your friends from Monticello go there? Or did anybody that you know- DG: 05:04 Yes. IG: 05:05 -from New York City go there? DG: 05:06 Yes. IG: 05:06 So, you had friends who went there. DG: 05:07 Yes. I had a classmate, Robert Ethel, who went there. We roomed together- IG: 05:11 Uh huh. DG: 05:11 -for a year. IG: 05:12 from Monticello. DG: 05:13 Yes. IG: 05:13 Okay, good. So, when you first- DG: 05:15 [crosstalk] three rooms, we were two of the three. IG: 05:18 Oh. So-so when you first arrived to Binghamton, what was your impression that was there such a dramatic difference between Monticello and Binghamton? DG: 05:30 Well, now this, Binghamton was a city. Was still small townish. IG: 05:34 Yeah. DG: 05:35 But the college itself was off, you know, was investor offset, not offset, set off the highway, and it was a unit by itself. It was not within the city like you had NYU in the city. Was part of the New York City. IG: 05:49 Yes. DG: 05:49 This was a totally, total unit by itself. IG: 05:52 Yeah. DG: 05:53 That was a beautiful place. IG: 05:55 It was a beautiful place. Um, and so maybe, what was your first impression when you arrived there? Do you remember what it looked like to you? DG: 06:06 Remember it looked like. Yes. IG: 06:08 Yeah. So, describe that a little bit to us. DG: 06:10 [inaudible] came in there was the-the quad that they called it because they had the student center was in one place, and the science of science labs were off to the science was off to the right, as you looked at it. And then they had the- there was a there was a roadway that the left were all the dormitories and the luncheon hall. That is what I remember about the quad. And it had that walkway on top then, until you came down into the quad. DG: 06:44 So, it struck you as a beautiful place. DG: 06:49 Yes, physically, very beautiful. IG: 06:52 So um, just tell us you know about your early experience of the academics there. Did that make an impression on you? DG: 07:05 I think academics were very good. IG: 07:07 Very good. So, tell us a little bit more elaborate on that. What classes do you remember? Um- DG: 07:14 I can tell you. I will give you one, one thing that stands out in my mind. Okay, we took Spanish. Those who took- I took Spanish were the ones Spanish I and II, and there was a fellow there. I will not use a name, but he had, apparently, this is his third or fourth time taking this Spanish class, and he needed it to graduate. And he was a senior. IG: 07:35 Yeah. DG: 07:36 -and the professor, doctor, if I remember his name. I could picture his face. Just cannot remember his name. He had--called Rahman this on this, this senior, and when he-he we saw the test booklet of this particular student on this, on his desk after the after the exams, and it was a D with 19 minuses. And I do not think he counted minuses. I think he just gave him a D and then put the string of minuses so they could graduate. IG: 08:14 So, it was a generous place. DG: 08:16 Yeah, it was. IG: 08:17 It was academically a generous place. But it was- DG: 08:19 I mean, that is it was this particular thing, you know, I remember we had Melvin Shefttz. We had- was a very-very tough-tough history teacher, but it was very good. IG: 08:31 American history? DG: 08:33 No, world history. IG: 08:34 World history. DG: 08:35 World history and he gave me back a paper, and I remember it was I am sure it was a B minus or B plus. But he said to me, the comment was, you handled some very difficult material quite well, something along those lines. Think I still have that paper. I kept two or three to my papers that were interesting. IG: 08:58 Was that on your freshman or what- DG: 09:00 Freshman year. IG: 09:01 Freshman year, so you were encouraged in your academic. DG: 09:05 Yes, yeah. IG: 09:05 Did you know what you wanted to study? DG: 09:09 Yeah, I know I wanted to study--I loved American history. IG: 09:12 Yes. DG: 09:12 And I came to the point where I had to decide whether to do graduate work in American history or go to law school. I chose going to law school, which I probably regretted many years later. I really loved American history and, but I thought, but then, after my first year, they went to the trimester system. So, we were- IG: 09:30 After your first year. DG: 09:31 Yeah, after first year. So, we were a little thrown off on calendar wise, but nevertheless, we completed our academic studies within the trimester system. IG: 09:42 So um, just tell me a little- let us stay on the topic of academics and just tell us more about the faculty that made an impression on you, on your fellow classmates. DG: 09:55 Well, for American history, we had, we had one professor who took several times, whose name escapes me now, but yeah, that was the days of when you did your papers. He insisted that footnotes at the bottom of each page, and you had [inaudible] and any student because I typed the type, typing, I got back a paper from him in colonial history, and there was an A and some of the papers were wrinkled, and the only comment he made was, my apologies for the tea stains on your paper. IG: 10:28 Oh. DG: 10:28 I still have that one. IG: 10:31 Yeah, you still have that one. DG: 10:32 I still have that one. And, but I had a friend who was American, who was a history who was a history major, and he managed to avoid taking that professor, I remember, but it was interesting because he did. He- because that professor took- did the period histories mainly colonial and-and civil war, but he [inaudible] IG: 10:56 So, did you find the classes stimulating? DG: 11:01 Yes, yeah [crosstalk] IG: 11:02 You have discussions? DG: 11:03 I think the class were very good. And I remember it took- I had for history [inaudible] I had Professor, Colonel House [Albert House]. I remember that-that. And one thing he taught me, he says, he says, 'When you are middle of a project and you have to go to supper, or you are going to lunch or you have to do something else," he says, "Do not say, in your mind, wait until I get the end of something. Stop where you are. It will be much easier to pick it up and remember where you are we were from that point and go forward if you middle of something." And I have used that- I have used that quite-quite successfully in my professional career. You do legal research when they would have to go somewhere, stop in the middle of something. It is easier to pick up. IG: 11:44 It is easier to pick up than- DG: 11:46 Start and then stop and going to [crosstalk] IG: 11:48 It down to some symbol conclusion, or? DG: 11:52 Let us say, at the end attempt in the middle of a case, reading something. And instead of going to the end of the case, if I had to, have to go somewhere. I will stop there. I will come back, come back to it. I am coming back in the middle of something. It is much easier to pick up than they have said, "Oh, at the end of that case-" [crosstalk] IG: 12:08 How do you remember that where you left off? [crosstalk] Okay, that is very easy. Um, so describe your classmates. Where do you think that the majority, I know that the majority were from Long Island and New York City, and so who were, who were your friends at Harpur? Did you gravitate more to the people from New York City or from upstate? Did it make a difference? DG: 12:39 Well, I was, I was a member of the Adelphi men's club, so I had friends there. IG: 12:44 Yeah. DG: 12:44 Where I would say, mostly from the city, but there were from upstate, upstate as well. Not as many, but. IG: 12:52 Not as many. Do you, do you- did you feel any cultural differences because you were really straddling [crosstalk] DG: 13:01 Guys told me, "Graubard, we really consider you [inaudible] city guy." IG: 13:05 Yeah, because- DG: 13:07 I spent a lot of time in the city. DG: 13:09 My grandparents lived in Crown Heights, spent a lot of time as children. IG: 13:12 Exactly. IG: 13:12 So-so you were really comfortable in both cultures. DG: 13:16 Yeah. IG: 13:16 Do you feel that there were cultural differences between the- you know, students from the New York metro area versus the upstate students? DG: 13:27 [crosstalk] differences there were. IG: 13:29 And were these differences bridged, you know and- DG: 13:32 Yeah, I think there were guys who, guys who started, you know, going-going-going out with girls who had-had friends in, in the social clubs there. IG: 13:41 Yeah. DG: 13:42 That the-the Upstate downstate did not. IG: 13:44 Right. So, what did you do in this Adelphi club? What did you- DG: 13:48 It is just a matter of guys, yeah, they had social clubs there because they did not allow fraternities- IG: 13:55 Yeah. DG: 13:55 So, they allowed social clubs. So, it was- IG: 14:01 What did you do? DG: 14:03 I just had friends there. But not that- to me it was not a big deal. IG: 14:07 It was not a big deal. Where did you meet? At the Student Union? DG: 14:11 In the Student Union. IG: 14:14 So, who were your, you know this, this was a time of the, you know, the beginning of great change in America. And, you know, how did you really, how alive were you to the events outside of [crosstalk] So tell us about that. DG: 14:38 Well, being of draft age. It was Vietnam War. I remember at one point they offered they offered some in the geology department. They offered a course, a new course, aerial photography, which nobody wanted to take. They wanted to have it on their record- the draft board. IG: 14:57 That is very interesting. DG: 14:58 Yeah, I remember it, specifically. IG: 15:01 So, did you feel that the faculty sort of encouraged, or did it protect its students? Do you feel against being drafted to- DG: 15:13 I think there was one professor I remember who was willing to give, who's suddenly became more lenient with giving out A's. I think I remember that. IG: 15:26 Yeah. DG: 15:26 One-one particular problem, his name. I remember who he was, but I remember some discussion on that-that he was and that was to keep-keep students in school. IG: 15:37 Yeah, so-so. Oh, um, you know, so-so there was this encourage, there was, you know, a desire to protect, maybe this [crosstalk] DG: 15:50 I think [crosstalk] from that one professor. IG: 15:53 From that one professor. Did you feel that a lot of your classmates had the intention of going on with their study to avoid the war or? DG: 16:04 No-no, I think it was an academic- it was a state school was an academic place, so that most people intended to go on to further professional studies. IG: 16:13 Anyway. DG: 16:14 Yeah. IG: 16:14 Anyway. DG: 16:15 Yes. IG: 16:17 So, when you discuss the Vietnam War with your friends, what kind of things did you say, apart from being afraid of- DG: 16:24 You know, the most thing, it is terrible- the most thing I can remember is, you know, guys making comments like, "Okay, so I will take my master’s at Ho Chi Minh, university," or "University of Phnom Penh, " "Are you going next year to University of Phnom Penh? It became, not the joke, but- IG: 16:46 Yeah. DG: 16:47 -it was one way to alleviate the seriousness of the situation. IG: 16:51 What other ways did you alleviate the seriousness of the situation? DG: 16:54 I do not think there was any other way. I mean, I guess I was a little had a little less tension because my where I lived, there were a lot of guys who came out of high school and volunteered so that the quotas and my draft board were-were-were-were were filled up. They protected me a little bit more. IG: 17:17 Yeah. So, you know, but you do not remember any political discussions. Did you- do you remember whether, you know- DG: 17:29 Oh, listen, there were, there were a lot of, there was a lot, there were a lot of peaceniks, yeah, there were a lot of peaceniks on the campus. A lot of the peaceniks on the campus, you know, and they, and they had made banners, and they had sat ins and demonstrations. IG: 17:43 Tell me a little bit about that. DG: 17:45 Against-against the war. IG: 17:47 Yeah. So where did they sit in and do they go? DG: 17:51 They would have us not, not to obstruct. But you know, they were demonstration in around the campus. IG: 17:57 Around the campus, around the campus, and was this covered by the student papers or by local papers? DG: 18:06 Yeah-yeah. and what about the [crosstalk] of this covered by students, certainly by student papers. IG: 18:10 Did anybody march on Washington or- DG: 18:13 I think there were people. IG: 18:15 There were. So, did you participate in any of this? DG: 18:19 No. IG: 18:21 No. Why not? DG: 18:24 Because I was crazy. It was not for the war, but it certainly was. I thought it was something that unfortunately had to be done. It is unfortunate we had to get that with the way we got into it, with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and- IG: 18:35 Right. DG: 18:36 They expanded it. DG: 18:37 And that it turned to be a bog. It was me, a bogged down affair. IG: 18:37 Right. DG: 18:42 But it was, it was a sad situation, but, yeah, I guess I believed in the government and-and that is the thing that would was not from Harpur, but the thing that affected me most was at home. There was a fellow at the end of my block who wins in the army, and he came back, who was a changed person, and he would not go anywhere where his back was not against the wall. Or if he went into the restaurant, he made sure that he sat in a booth with his back again, and he was always protecting his back. IG: 19:15 You knew him after the war. Or when did he come back? DG: 19:19 He was younger than me, but I saw, I saw. IG: 19:22 What, when? During your college years. DG: 19:24 Yeah-yeah. IG: 19:25 What kind of impact did that have on you? DG: 19:28 It just brought home the reality of the-the unfortunate consequences of the war. IG: 19:40 Of the war. But it did not change your mind about America's involvement in the war. DG: 19:44 Not too much. I thought it was, I feel it was sad the way they ended, you know, that they could not come out, that they got bogged down and they could not it was, it was, it was, to me, it ended to be a useless event. IG: 19:58 A useless war. DG: 20:00 A useless war. IG: 20:01 But when did you realize that it was a useless? DG: 20:04 Halfway through. IG: 20:05 Halfway through. So, what year? Tell- remind me, were you in college or? DG: 20:12 I might have been in law school. IG: 20:13 In law school. Where did you go to law school? DG: 20:16 George Washington University Law school. IG: 20:18 So, and was that right after graduating from Harpur? DG: 20:23 Yes. IG: 20:24 So, what- how did you decide on that? Did you have encouragement from your direction- from your professors, or who advised you? DG: 20:33 No-no, I- we had to go to GW or? IG: 20:33 Yeah. DG: 20:35 Well, I applied to, I think eight law schools, got into four of them. I thought GW was the best. IG: 20:42 I see. I see. Did you have guidance from your professors or not much? DG: 20:47 I do not think much. IG: 20:53 What other courses did you take? You taught you took history courses, you know- DG: 20:59 Social science. IG: 20:59 -social studies, science. DG: 21:03 The one required science course, and then never walked into the science building after that. IG: 21:12 Any literature or language courses? DG: 21:15 English, literature, I remember a language of Spanish. I took two courses in Spanish. IG: 21:20 Do you feel that- DG: 21:21 And also, they introduced- Dr. Levin started a Hebrew course and Arabic course. It took Hebrew courses. IG: 21:29 When was it- there was a Semitic languages department. DG: 21:34 He started it. IG: 21:35 He started it. Uh- DG: 21:38 A language lab that they tested. And [crosstalk] IG: 21:44 I remember language lab. DG: 21:45 -tested with Dr. Levin. We took it seriously. Everyone else, it was a joke. IG: 21:51 Do you feel that you got a well-rounded education, or was there something lacking? DG: 21:56 No well rounded. IG: 21:59 How did that influence the future of your life, of your intellectual career? DG: 22:05 It broadened my horizons on how to approach things. IG: 22:13 Okay, so you know, how do you think- well, how do you think that Harper prepared you for your future career? DG: 22:22 A good academic basis. IG: 22:25 Uh, huh. Okay. So, we talked a little bit about the Vietnam War, and we talked a little bit about your involvement. You were not involved in any student activism? DG: 22:41 No. IG: 22:41 Really. Um, but around you, was there anything- what you know were, was there student activism about, you know, the civil rights movement? That was- DG: 22:53 Yeah, they, yeah, they had a [crosstalk] The Civil Rights was big at the time, and there was I mean, there were people who were active, who were active in the civil rights movement, I think. IG: 23:10 And how did that manifest? Was it on campus, or did they go to Washington? DG: 23:15 Both-both. I think, I think some guys might have gotten involved in the South. I am not sure. But, I mean, they had clubs, they had groups like that, that were [crosstalk] IG: 23:17 Was this sort of, you know, part of the conversation even, did it reach your circles? DG: 23:31 I do not think so. IG: 23:32 No, not so much. Were there any students of, you know, who were not from New York City and essentially white middle class, you know or upstate. Were there any people, any students of color or international? DG: 23:48 Yes. IG: 23:49 At the time? DG: 23:50 Yes. IG: 23:50 You remember? DG: 23:52 I remember one fellow from Nairobi, [hos phone rings] and he lost his-his hat in the winter. [he is talking on the phone] Hello. Yeah, okay, I am in the meeting now on and then have to go Lauren. So, I will be back at about 11:45 but then I have [inaudible] with my grandson, so I will have to speak to you about, you know, 12:30 or so. Okay, all right, okay, thanks. Bye. Bye. IG: 24:27 Okay-okay, so we were talking about a student from Nairobi. DG: 24:33 Yes, he was a short fellow, and he lost his-his hat. He had a hat with flaps, and I remember he drew a picture of it; he put his name underneath it, and he put lost, and he put it on the board. IG: 24:43 Was it ever found? DG: 24:48 So, I remember seeing it on the board IG: 24:51 Was-was, you know, you-you had traveled to New York City a lot. So, you know, seeing people of international, of different backgrounds [crosstalk] DG: 25:01 -was that much so also. IG: 25:03 You had that in Monticello, because Monticello was a summer resort, right? DG: 25:08 Summer resort, a lot of transients came through the and that was they opened up the racetrack, also [crosstalk] IG: 25:14 I see, I see. So-so that was not- um, but there were not any international or students of, you know, color, any Hispanic students that you remember? DG: 25:28 [inaudible] IG: 25:29 Yeah, no-no, not really. DG: 25:32 Hispanic? IG: 25:33 Hispanic, Black. DG: 25:37 Black, a few, a few. IG: 25:38 A few. DG: 25:38 Yeah. IG: 25:39 Yeah. DG: 25:40 But it is [inaudible] than I do not remember. IG: 25:43 No, okay, so did they, did they- did you have, you know, occasions to sort of mix as a larger group, or did you just stay in the class, you know. DG: 25:57 In the classes, and in the and in the student-student lounge, the cafeteria, not the dining hall, but the cafeteria in the in the Student Union. People are always getting together. IG: 26:12 How about, you know, women's rights, that probably was too early, [crosstalk] right? Do you remember that expectations for women at Harpur were different than they were for men? Were um- DG: 26:31 Nothing, no, nothing. I recall. IG: 26:32 Not that they were, you know, treated differently, necessarily, but were the women on campus? Did they aspire to the same sort of, you know, careers that- DG: 26:43 I think there was [inaudible]. I think there was no difference. IG: 26:46 No difference. DG: 26:47 There were a lot, here were a lot of women there. They were aspiring to the same thing the men were [crosstalk] IG: 26:47 They wanted to become lawyer [crosstalk] DG: 26:49 -education, yes, [inaudible] education. And professionals, yeah. IG: 26:57 And professionals. Okay, so, you know, tell us a little bit about your free time, free time on campus was- do you think that Harpur was a party school? DG: 27:11 I would not say it was a party- no, not a party school. I mean, there were, you know, the guys in geology, there was always a trip, a field trip. IG: 27:23 Right. DG: 27:24 You know and that was a that was always a big joke, because, you know, guys were buying beer, and that was always looked at as a as a fun thing to do, as opposed to an educational trip. IG: 27:33 Right. But you did not, you know, I mean, how did you spend your time socializing? You know, were there- did you just keep to your group of boys? DG: 27:45 They had- there were social events on campus. IG: 27:49 Like what? Describe for- DG: 27:52 I think, full weekend, spring weekend, [crosstalk] IG: 27:55 Yeah. So, what happened? I, you know, tell us. DG: 27:59 I was it was not I was not a big social guy. IG: 28:02 You were not a big- so you never attended any social events. DG: 28:05 I cannot remember most of what they were. But things changed at the end too. Trimester had a big effect on some of this stuff, I thin., IG: 28:13 Tell us about that. DG: 28:14 Well, through the calendars of Harpur were off the calendars of other college., IG: 28:19 Right. DG: 28:20 So, people who would want to go somewhere else, you know, find it difficult to synchronize, except-except for Thanksgiving. And for instance, we have right and then we weekend, those were the same all over. IG: 28:32 So-so these the trimester had a disruptive effect on your social life. DG: 28:37 I mean, when you if you had to interact with people, friends at other schools, in that in that manner. IG: 28:42 I see, I see. DG: 28:43 Internally, it was, you know, there was no difference. IG: 28:46 So, you know, after studying, did you spend time in your dorm room, or did you go to student union? Where would you spend your free time, even in your first year, you know. DG: 29:02 [inaudible] mostly just, I think, just staying the room sang about hanging around the student union. IG: 29:08 Did you date girls? DG: 29:10 Yes. IG: 29:10 Yeah. So, tell us, tell us, where would you go on these dates? Did you have a car? DG: 29:15 No, oh, I not, no, not the first year. Wait a minute. No, not the first I had the older Amber. I do not remember if I had that the first year. IG: 29:30 Well, maybe the second year you had a car. So-so, okay, so where would you go with your dates? DG: 29:37 There were not a lot of them. IG: 29:38 Yeah. laughs] DG: 29:39 For sure. That is for sure. There were not a lot of them. There were movies in Binghamton, Vestal. IG: 29:46 Yeah. So, you would go to a movie. Were there any cafeterias or restaurants that you would go to afterwards? Just to the movies? DG: 29:54 I did not do a lot of dating there. Anything was mostly geared towards, if the- towards events on campus [crosstalk] weekend. IG: 30:03 So, there were events on campus for students, like the whole, you know, I mean, but that is just once a year, right? DG: 30:10 Yeah, yeah. IG: 30:15 Were you were- what about the curfews? You know, a lot It has been said about the curfews for girls. DG: 30:23 You tell people, these days, students these days, you know, tell, I have. Tell my-my granddaughter is of college age now, and we talked about my-my wife tells she went to Stonehill College. And every single school in the country had curfews for women. You know, you said that you said it to girls now, and they look like you are crazy. IG: 30:46 Yeah, and the curfews were earlier than curfews for- DG: 30:50 Yeah, curfews were, I do not know if the men had curfews. I think that was when upon the contention. But I think the girl, I think the girls like the curfews. I really do, I think, because, again, it may, it gave them an excuse for being, being. IG: 31:10 They liked it. DG: 31:11 I think the girls liked it. IG: 31:16 That is very interesting, actually. DG: 31:18 During the week there was, I forgot what was, it was eight o'clock in the weekend, I think was 11 o'clock, maybe midnight. IG: 31:26 Would you go? How frequently did you go home during the semester? DG: 31:31 I went home for the Jewish holidays. I went home for if something happened. It was occurred in the family, a family event, it was easy to get home. So of course, before all the regular recognized weekend, holiday period., IG: 31:47 Right. Did you have anything like Hillel on campus? DG: 31:51 There was, there was a Hillel, yes, there was a Hillel. And I was a member of the Hillel and that was not, there was not a religious aspect to it. There was more social at that point. IG: 32:08 So, you know, where during the trimester period you had, you know, big breaks in the summertime, did you work? DG: 32:18 Yes. IG: 32:19 Did you pay for your school. DG: 32:21 Yes. IG: 32:21 Yourself. That is very impressive. So, what type of jobs did you have during this summer? And where were these jobs? DG: 32:28 Well, for two summers, I worked, I drove a bread truck for stomas bread, which is a bread company in the city, and in the summer there a lot of their customer base moved to the mountains. So, they had five routes in the mountains of two summers, I drove there. Oh, and then they worked in the men's store in Monticello, Jack brands men. So, he had the, he had the men's store there, and then the men's store at the Concord Hotel. Oh, so I worked in the two summers. I worked at the in the men's store in Monticello. IG: 33:10 Have you stayed in touch with any of your classmates from Harpur? DG: 33:17 Yes, one, particularly Martin Kera and you know, I became, became law partners after several years. IG: 33:22 Oh, wow. DG: 33:23 And to this day, to this day, we are in touch because we still have a common business interest. IG: 33:30 That is right, that is right. I think I reached out to him as well. So, were there any faculty that you stayed in touch with? IG: 33:40 How do you think your fellow classmates would remember you from that period? What would they how would they describe you? DG: 33:40 No. DG: 33:54 The Upstate Jewish boy, I guess you know. IG: 34:02 What does that mean, what does that mean? DG: 34:06 I was upstate, you know, came from Monticello. A lot of them knew Monticello had been up there in the mountains for the summers, worked in the summers. IG: 34:15 Okay, so that is one description. But would they have said that you are industrious, that you are funny, that you are the class clown. What? How [crosstalk] DG: 34:23 I think it is just maybe a nice guy. IG: 34:25 A nice guy. DG: 34:26 Always help, trying to help people. IG: 34:31 Any-any stories about how you help your classmates? DG: 34:33 One-one in particular, I do remember, and I tell my wife [crosstalk] there were guys who took, who would not take a Tuesday night class. In this in the in the spring, in the autumn semester, because they did not want that. They wanted to leave early for Thanksgiving vacation. I had a Tuesday night class, and I had an old Rambler, 1962 Rambler had to push button drive. And this was my-my, probably my sophomore year, I think. And you know these people around who would give rides home, and it was a bitterly-bitterly cold night, really cold. There was snow on the ground, and it was very-very cold by wind chill was probably close to zero, very cool. And I- the girl Beth, I forgot her last names. [inaudible] cut the back road. She was [inaudible] arriving. The [inaudible] was feeling a ride. We had a full car, I think Irene and a young couple with a baby who were going to Newburgh, so the car was full, and it was freezing cold, and it took a long time I let the car warm up even before I would let that baby in the car. So, it took a while, but we packed in. We all came to my house, and then they made calls as to where there were no cell phones in those days, as to people really picked them up at particular times. And my parents made sure they had something hot to drink, something to eat, until they all got picked up from where we were. IG: 34:34 That is very nice. So, um- DG: 35:20 Oh, one other time. IG: 35:48 Yes please. DG: 35:51 [crosstalk] Ronald Nathan, he was okay, and he called me in a panic that he-he had to do, finish off his social- a paper for a course, and he let it go to the last minute. "What should he do?" So, I typed with, if he, if he, if he wrote it out, could I type it right? I said, "I will be over in the minute." I was over this room with my typewriter. I sat down, I looked him and said, "Talk." He talked his paper. I said, “What are you doing?” I said, “You talk. I am going to type right." We did his paper that night, the whole time we finished, but he talked, and I typed. We got it done. IG: 36:43 That is fantastic. And you spend the whole night? DG: 36:46 Probably most of the night, doing that. IG: 36:48 until [crosstalk] DG: 36:50 Three in the ming. IG: 36:51 "That is great. Did you help organize his thinking? DG: 36:55 No. I just- IG: 36:55 You just typed. DG: 36:56 I just typed. IG: 36:58 Well, that is, that is still, that is a big help. What did you think? What lessons did you learn from this time in your life at Harpur College? I mean, you were at a very formative period, you know, then you stepped out into the adult world in the- in law school, I would think, in a different state and but so how did this form you? What were some of the lessons that you learned from this period? DG: 37:29 Well, that there are it just it built on what I learned in Monticello that went to public high school, that there were a lot of different people this world that have views and thoughts different than you, and you have to get along with them, and that you can build on your own strengths. I was on the swimming team, and I was not a stupid swimmer, and I remember judge-judge, trying to think the first, the first, the freshman year the coach, Dennis. Last name was Dennis, and he said, "You want to learn to dive?" I said, "Okay," so do it. I was not great at anything, but so he would try and say, when you, when you, when you went to a swimming meet, you had five required dives and then one optional. And they took the optional by putting the five categories in a hat, and they picked one out, and that became the optional dive. So, he, you know, we were not a big athletic school, and we did not go the big athletic schools. St Bonaventure was about the biggest name around from that we went. And he would always say, talk to the other coach and say, you know, you know, "Can we fix the optical dive at the at the easy one going forward?" So, some judges said, "Fine," it was okay. And I remember, one said "No." And I remember St. Bonaventure, the swimming pool was in, was in a downstairs area where the ceiling was, I think, lower than this. When you came off the board, you had to push your hands off the top in order to do certain dives. It was crazy, but-but I remember one particular time he said to me, he says, "David. "He said, "I am putting you in the individual medley." I said, "You know, I cannot." He said, "There were," he said "They are only put there were usually four swimmers, two from each side, and three got points. The fourth one got nothing. He said, "They only have one swimmer in the I am individual middling." He says, "All you have to do is finish and you get third place." He was, "Just finished," and it was, I remember, it was butter, back, breast, free. That was how they ran the butterfly stroke, breaststroke, the backstroke. And I could not do the backstroke to save myself, but I did, and it was, it was fun, but I remember, I swear I must have finished about three minutes after everybody, the second guy. IG: 39:54 So, what did that particular episode teach you? Did- DG: 40:01 Just perseverance. IG: 40:02 Perseverance-perseverance. So you know, and you know, for posterity, for the you know, future students and others listening-listening to these tapes, what do you think what-what were the most important lessons that you have learned in your life that you would like to share with these students who are considering Binghamton or who are at Binghamton? And maybe- DG: 40:37 I take a very different- I bring a very different perspective. I came from a very strong Jewish background, and I leaned more towards orthodoxy halfway through and I was going to transfer out, and things did not work. It just did not. And so that the last two years at Harpur, I restrict myself to a lot of things in within the Jewish religion that [inaudible] accomplish, such as not going out Friday night. I had a connection with Rabbi Bernard Brazil, who was the author the rabbi orthodox jewel in Binghamton. I told her son, he got me teach a Sunday school class there for a couple of years, which I did, and-and I connect with some of the people in the neighborhood who were, who were helpful to me. And so, I had a different ask- a different view of college the last two years that a lot most students that did not have. IG: 41:38 But that is wonderful. I mean, you really had a very full life and maybe a more adult life because you were so involved in the community- DG: 41:51 Yeah-yeah, I was. IG: 41:52 -in-in really ministering to this community. Could you talk a little bit more about this? Because this is very unusual, I think. DG: 42:01 Well, it became my own personal journey back to orthodox roots. And so, you know, I did not go out Friday night. I was a dorm counselor. If I had to be on duty on Friday night, I sat and I tried not to do things that would infringe. I restricted my diet there, even in the mess hall, very and supplemented it with my own food for cautious reasons. And just geared myself to going to guiding my life in the future based upon these religious attendance that became more important to me as I went along. IG: 42:46 And what- why do you think that that happened midway during your undergraduate career? What happened in your thinking? DG: 42:55 My brother got married, and he was not very you know, he did not have any religious influence. Had very little religious influence in his life. And I said to myself, I went to, went to the wedding in the Bronx. He said, "David, you can get married one day also." And, you know, thinking of my grandparents and their- my grandfather, Rabbi the [inaudible], who's a, I mean, who that is a ritual slaughter of animals. And I said, “You know what? They are really right. That is where I have to go,” and I did. IG: 43:31 So that is a very- so-so what? What would you tell these young people listening to your interview. What-what is important about that experience? DG: 43:45 Experience is that for me, as an Orthodox Jew religion, became a very paramount issue, and had to deal with it in the time constraints. I had a Harpur, and I did to the best-best I could. And then once I left and went to law school, I was able to broaden my religious life because I had a lot more freedom as to, as to where I was living, what I was eating, what I was doing. IG: 44:14 So do you think that the message might be, you know, sort of stick to your guns and do what you feel is important. DG: 44:22 That is if you want, if you want to generate, if you want to generalize it, yes, that would be a-a generalized comment. IG: 44:31 Where did you meet your wife? DG: 44:34 In synagogue in Washington, DC. IG: 44:36 Okay, that it was not at Harpur. DG: 44:38 Right. IG: 44:40 Have any of your children or grandchildren considered Harp- Binghamton? DG: 44:48 No, not in their scope. IG: 44:52 No, because it is- they are a different generation. DG: 44:54 Yeah, my three girls, my three girls, two went Stonehill College. One went to Queens. College. All went to seminary in Israel for a year. IG: 45:02 Oh, wow. IG: 45:02 Any of them- DG: 45:04 They are all married, and they are all really- IG: 45:07 Any rabbis in your family? DG: 45:10 I have two sons and [inaudible] the rabbi. IG: 45:12 Oh, wow-wow. DG: 45:12 Yeah, but-but they are not pulpit robbers. They are education rabbis. One is, one is head of a school in California, Los Angeles, the other is Dean of Students at Magen and David [Magen David Yeshivah School], which is a Sephardic school in Brooklyn. IG: 45:26 Wow. Well, do you have this is- it is, it is really a very interesting interview, and I think that we have gotten a very different perspective on Harpur College, you know, experience during the (19)60s, and anything that I have heard from other- DG: 45:48 I will tell you the-the one of the greatest things about Harpur College was not the college itself but was it stepping on the coat cement ceremony. IG: 45:58 Tell us about that [laughs] DG: 45:59 Because it was just wonderful. They had and Richie Walters, you know, and I, you know, to get up there to understand how they did things. Richie got up and he said, you know, we have this, whatever was that great Greek-Greek poet Testiclēs, and that is how that kind of stuff that they were. But it was, it was, it was a fun ceremony. It was the official end of winter, the beginning of spring. They stepped on the one with the coat they brought up ceremoniously up the stairs outside the Student Union, and they put it down. And Kestrel came over, and he stood up, you guys, very seriously, stepped on the coat. You look back and-and, yeah, people were laughing. It was fun, but it was nice. It was, it was a good hearted, fun thing to do that did not step on anyone's toes. You know, it was not, was not race oriented, it was not religion oriented. It was just something that someone thought of and carried out. IG: 46:56 And kind of brought unity to [crosstalk] DG: 47:01 Oh, everybody liked it. I you know the faculty too, though everyone, there was not anyone who did not like it. IG: 47:08 Yeah. Are there any concluding remarks that you have? Do you want to share anything? DG: 47:18 I can only say that there were turbulent times in the (19)60s. And, you know, we, as far as I know, we all survived. There were guys at Harpur, and I look back now, and there are people who took different directions, because some kind, some guy, some guys could handle being away, and some guys could not. Some guys could handle a breakup with a girl more than others. And was, there were turbulent times, you know, in the whole country, and Harpur was, was part of it. IG: 47:54 But just-just you mentioned something that, you know, some, some guys could handle breakups and these difficulties, others could not. You know, were there any support systems for this outside of, you know, maybe that that is why, you- DG: 48:15 I say that because I remember one particular guy, and I think he eventually, I do not think he graduated. I think he had difficult times. Eventually left school. I remember one situation, and he was having a very difficult time, because he was going out with a girl, and something happened, they broke up and-and he took a very-very difficult, very poorly. But, you know, there was no, was no, you know, support system. You know, some would say, of course, see the school psychologist. I guess there were some people. I do not think they had a system at that point, but there were people who felt closer to me, to some professors that they could talk to on a friendly basis, as opposed to academic basis. IG: 49:04 I see, I see. And maybe they did not have, they did not think of, you know, religion as a support system. Maybe. So- I David, unless you have some, some other gem that you want to share with us. I thank you so much- DG: 49:24 One thing I do remember Professor, I think his name was Roma. He had a baby face-face, yeah. And he was like a philosophy- philosophy professor, and he looked so young. And one thing he said in class was, you know there was some guys who did something about running, I do not know a woman's garment at the flagpole, but not on, not on campus. I think off campus somewhere. And he said, "Now, if someone like me did it, you know, they throw the book on them, but if the students do it is a prank." IG: 49:53 [laughs] DG: 49:53 Yeah. So, I will just leave my closing remarks are. Uh, make the best of your, of your, of your, of your education. Live with your convictions and go forward. IG: 50:08 Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. (End of Interview) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with M. David Graubard Subject The topic of the resource Harpur College – Sixties alumni; Harpur College – Alumni in law; Harpur College – Alumni from Upstate New York; Harpur College – Alumni living in New York City Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Graubard, M. David ; Gashurov, Irene Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource David was an attorney at Kera & Graubard, specializing in bankruptcy, insolvency, Chapter 11, and debtor and creditor rights. He grew up in Monticello, New York. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-02-19 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context David Graubard.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2018-02-19 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni Extent The size or duration of the resource. 50:12 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/9188b5a18f78ad90c188e0650897ad58.mp3 9edbb3625af9323648635dc62fe856b6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral Histories Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories from 1960s Binghamton Alumni Description An account of the resource In 2019, Binghamton University Libraries completed a mission to collect oral interviews from 1960s alumni as a means to preserve memories of campus life. The resulting 47 tales are a retrospective of social, professional and personal experiences with the commonality of Harpur College. Some stories tell of humble beginnings, others discuss the formation of friendships; each provides insight into a moment in our community's rich history. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Irene Gashurov Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-2018 Relation A related resource <a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/browse?collection=18">McKiernan Interviews : 60's collection of Oral Histories</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright. Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js) This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Date of Interview 2019-08-29 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Irene Gashurov Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mabel Payne Year of Graduation 1971 Biographical Text Mabel Payne is owner and president at Research, Analysis, and Development in Education (RADE) Associates, LLC. After graduating from Harpur College with a degree in history, she completed advanced degrees in education from SUNY Albany and in organizational psychology from Teachers College, Columbia University. She has extensive experience in designing and implementing professional development and train-the-trainer events; post-secondary career and educational group and individual counseling; grant proposal design; and report preparation and editing. Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Rights Statement Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mabel Payne Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Payne, Mabel ; Gashurov, Irene Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Description An account of the resource Mabel Payne is owner and president at Research, Analysis, and Development in Education (RADE) Associates, LLC. After graduating from Harpur College with a degree in history, she completed advanced degrees in education from SUNY Albany and in organizational psychology from Teachers College, Columbia University. She has extensive experience in designing and implementing professional development and train-the-trainer events; post-secondary career and educational group and individual counseling; grant proposal design; and report preparation and editing. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-08-29 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In Copyright Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mabel Payne.mp3 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2019-08-29 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Oral Histories from 60's Binghamton Alumni Extent The size or duration of the resource. 66:10 minutes IIIF Item Metadata UUID 287d99d8-f2b6-488b-a7a1-12ab7d7add1c https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/4d5bbd5ad44990c839605d73f46a2814.mp3 ab42272e6141cfd0065e2d1381398db2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE56938">Interview with Mabel Quick</a> Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:49 minutes Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Libraries Digital Format audio/mp3 Date of Digitization 2017-03-27 Material Type Sound Subject LCSH Quick, Mabel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mabel H. Quick Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of interview: 13 March 1978 Susan: Miss Quick, could you tell us something about your early beginnings, where you were born and some of your recollections of your childhood? Miss Quick: Yes, I could. I’d be glad to. I was born in Scranton way back in 1893. I grew up in West Pittston where my father was a dentist. Later we moved to Nichols, NY, and I grew up in the West Pittston schools under the name of John but when I reached New York State I was told that if I had another name I should use it because I was going to take Regents so in this community where I am now I became known with my old name Mabel. I taught school after graduating from Cortland in Johnson City for 40 long years but we really taught then we had classes that we were proud to pass on they could read—they could write—and teaching was wonderful. We were only earning $500 a year but we could with our increments reach $1800 a year that was the limit that we could go. Well, I lived here in Johnson City came here in 1917 when I started my teaching and this was a lovely town then to be a part of to live in and it really was a pleasure. Things have changed here now—old buildings have disappeared and new ones in their place but it’s still a place I’d like to live a long long time. I came from good old English stock. The Quick name comes—a the Quicks really came from England although they say we have Irish and Dutch mixed in a little bit and my ancestors missed the Mayflower by 2 years. They went to Holland and I tell the girls we missed the Mayflower by two years and we’re missing things ever since but we get along the Quicks are kind of lively people and they settled—helped settle this country. I’m proud of that it’s a heritage that a lot of people don’t have and we do have old Tom Quick my ancestor the first one to come over from England, Holland bought Staten Island from the Indians for a bolt of cloth. The Quick silver is now in the Metropolitan Museum and a there’s an old chest desk in a museum in New Jersey made by old Tom was given to George Washington and signed. I wish I had that but of course I don’t but I have seen it and Tom’s oldest son got along beautifully with the Indians until they moved to Milford, Pennsylvania now. Another family came in and there was trouble over land grants and the Indians killed old Tom so Tom Jr. as we would say today sought revenge and he killed so many Indians that the government let him alone. He was not drafted for the Civil—a for the Revolutionary War and finally Tom got smallpox and died. The Indians couldn’t understand why he was put in the ground so they dug him up to see if he was dead and of course not having the techniques of medicine we have now the germs were still there the Indians caught the smallpox and Tom killed them even after he was dead. He is now—a the records we have in Cooperstown he is the character Natty Bumppo (clears throat) of ah (clears throat again) pardon me in James Fenimore Cooper’s Leatherstocking Tales so I have a good line. I’m proud of it. I joined the D.A.R., the Daughters of the Founders of the Patriots of America, the Daughters of the Colonial Colonial Colonies of America and now I expect sometime to go further with the Huguenots of the Colonial days. It’s a privilege and an honor as I see it. Many people would like to join but can’t. Their line is not complete but I like the genealogy and am glad that I have the opportunity of being one of the early American families. In school well perhaps I shouldn’t get into that too much it was really good in the old days. I don’t know what they’re teaching them today but I am proud and glad that I taught in the early days when we could really see and know and have the experience of realizing that we had taught the children to pick up a book and read it and know what they read. Today I wonder what they are doing. I wouldn’t want to go back and find out. I see it all over I don’t think that they could pull me back with a hay rake but I’m glad that I have lived all these 85 years and had the experiences I’ve had. Susan: Could you tell us a little about your hobby? Miss Quick: Yes, I have a very wonderful hobby. You know when I was teaching when I first started to teach I’d come home from school and I’d—I’d go in the kitchen—I thought food dropped into position on the table and I thought if I would go in the kitchen well maybe they’ll (clears throat) teach me to do something. When I’d reach the kitchen my aunt and my mother both wonderful cooks would say now, “Enough good cooks in the kitchen—we don’t need you.” So I got so I wouldn’t go into the kitchen I wouldn’t even come home from school, I’d patronize the antique shops because I like old things and I walked in one day to an antique shop I saw a doll lying face down. The dress was open at the back and it said, “Remember who wrote this when far away.” Well, I was intrigued so that started a wonderfully good collection. I now have between well around 400 dolls with all related items such as doll carriages and hats and furniture and chests and beds, cradles, chairs everything that might have been played with years and years ago. I’ve written an article which is being published in the Federated Doll News Magazine. I belong to two doll clubs and I have sent colored slides of my carriage in an article entitled “A Buggy for Dolly.” In each of the 35 carriages I had a lot of fun putting in a da—a doll a period that would go with the carriage one has a Charity Smith Kitty Cat the other a teddy bear and it was well received. They said it was a delightfully different approach to doll collecting. I’ve met so many wonderful people through this hobby. I’ve had exhibits oh many exhibits and a right now presently there is an exhibit (clock chimes) of the Easter parade and—and a that Roberson wanted for their Easter attraction and they came down and selected the dolls for that a occasion. At Easter time they wanted a big exhibit for their Christmas Forest so I gave them—they also came and selected what they wished and it was they told me about 2,000 people saw that. I’ve been guests at various clubs, doll clubs around the state and as I said before you meet the most charming people and I’ve enjoyed it I think that’s what has kept me going of course the family was after a while different ones the family was large my aunt, my uncle, my mother were here my sister she was an invalid for 11 years and after they all went it was a—a well even during the time when they were ill it was a life saver it sort of keeps you going. You have something to look forward to something to do and even if you don’t do it one day it’s there for the future and it what I have I think will preserve and give people an idea of what really was played with what the children really had whether they played with them or no. It was right for the period in which these very very old ladies grew up with. Susan: Children formed more attachment to their a— Miss Quick: When have you seen a child wheeling a doll carriage? You might see one in a store but I wouldn’t call it a doll carriage. I have the little old wooden carriages made by Joel Ellison and signed by him in the sixties. I have many wooden box carriages some made by the Whitney Carriage Co. and I also have a chests that are signed 1846. These were usually homemade things the little chests and beds and you don’t see it anymore children are—well it keeps production going now. They buy it today the child plays with it tomorrow and the next day it’s out broken and they go back and get another production is— Susan: Everything is plastic now. Miss Quick: Everything is plastic. There will I don’t know it isn’t saying really goodbye to the old but it’s trying now these people who would like to collect. They just have to take from what is given today and decide whether or not it will ever be collectible and will really last as the old things of—of yesteryear have done but I’m glad I have what I have. It gives me great deal of pleasure and it also gives pleasure to others. Susan: Well, is there anything more that you would like to add? Miss Quick: I can’t think of anything more. I think that a we’ve about covered it. Susan: Well, thank you very much for the interview Miss Quick it’s been very interesting. Miss Quick: I’ve enjoyed it. I really have enjoyed it and as I say I meet such interesting people. Susan: We do. Thank you. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Quick, Mabel Biographical Text Mabel Quick speaks about growing up near Scranton and later in Nichols, N.Y. She discusses living and teaching in Johnson City. She discusses her ancestors coming to America from Europe, with particular focus on Tom Quick, her ancestor who purchased Staten Island from Native Americans. She discusses her membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution and related associations. She is an avid doll collector and has over 400 dolls with associated accessories; she discusses this collection and activities in which she participates related to this hobby. Date of Interview 1978-03-13 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mabel Quick Description An account of the resource Mabel Quick speaks about growing up near Scranton and later in Nichols, N.Y. She discusses living and teaching in Johnson City. She discusses her ancestors coming to America from Europe, with particular focus on Tom Quick, her ancestor who purchased Staten Island from Native Americans. She discusses her membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution and related associations. She is an avid doll collector and has over 400 dolls with associated accessories; she discusses this collection and activities in which she participates related to this hobby. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Quick, Mabel; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-03-13 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 77 Subject The topic of the resource Quick, Mabel -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2017-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 16:49 minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a1f5abbb69c821d2c895b03013821e38.mp3 463a4ba44c98aaaae85dfc9c04443859 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Armenian Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Aynur de Rouen, Ph.D. Description An account of the resource This collection includes interviews in English with informants of all ages and a variety of backgrounds from various parts of Armenia.  The interviews provide deeper insight into the history of the Armenian culture through personal accounts, narratives, testimonies, and memories of their early lives in their adoptive country and back in Armenia.   Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright.  Relation A related resource <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/oral-histories/index.html#sustainablecommunities">Sustainable Communities Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Madeleine Kachakjian Redjebian Date of Interview 10/22/2016 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jacqueline Kachadourian Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 17:28 Language English Digital Publisher Binghamton University Interview Format Video or Audio Audio Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information. Biographical Text <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Madelin was born in Lebanon to Turkish parents who were escaping the genocide. From an early age, she attended language classes, allowing her to become fluent in Armenian, Arabic, French and English. Duiring the civil war in Lebanon, Madelin and her family escaped to Canada. Currently, she has three sons and seven grandchildren. "}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">Madeleine Kachakjian Redjebian (1931-2020) was born in Lebanon to Armenian parents who were escaping the genocide. From an early age, she attended language classes, allowing her to become fluent in Armenian, Arabic, French and English. Duiring the civil war in Lebanon, Madeleine and her family escaped to Montreal, Canada. She is survived by her three sons and seven grandchildren. Keywords <span data-sheets-value="{"1":2,"2":"Lebanon; genocide; Armenian language school; church; Turkey; traditions; paintings"}" data-sheets-userformat="{"2":15105,"3":{"1":0},"11":4,"12":0,"14":[null,2,0],"15":"Calibri","16":11}">Lebanon; genocide; Armenian language school; church; Turkey; traditions; paintings Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Armenian Oral History Project Interview with: Madeleine Kachakjian Redjebian Interviewed by: Jacqueline Kachadourian Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty Date of interview: 22 October 2016 Interview Setting: Montreal, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Start of Interview) 0:04 Unknown: Would you like me to leave or ̶ 0:06 JK: Um, you can stay if you want to ̶ 0:08 Unknown: Okay, fine. 0:08 JK: Okay, my name is Jackie Kachadourian and I am interviewing with the Special Collection’s for Binghamton University Armenian Oral History Project. Today is October 22, 2016. Can you please start with some basic biographical information– your name and birth place? 0:28 MK: Yes, my name is Madeleine Kachakjian. And my birth place is Lebanon. My parents came from Turkey, from genocide, massacre. There was– 0:49 JK: What were your roles and responsibilities in the home when you were growing up? Or when you were raising your children what were those of your spouse? 1:01 MK: I preferred to grown up Armenian with heart with mind, everything–language. They grow up Armenian. 1:20 Unknown: [Speaking Armenian] 1:30 MK: [Speaking Armenian] 1:40 JK: What were your parent’s roles in the house and their occupations when they were growing up? For your parents? Your mom and dad. 1:56 MK: They ̶ my father was military from army Turkey. That is why they allow him to leave house and they did not massacre this family. They keep it because he is military from Turkey Army. They keep it my grandmother and all family, and they came to the Syria. From Syria they came Lebanon. 2:37 JK: Okay, did your parents go to school, high school or college? 2:40 MK: No, no. 2:43 JK: Did your parents both speak Armenian? 2:45 MK: Yes. 2:48 JK: Did you have any siblings if so what were their ages relative to yours? 2:55 MK: Yeah, in Bulgaria. My mother’s aunt, my mother’s sister family– They speak very well Armenian. They educated well and Armenian they speak at home. 3:15 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 3:19 MK: It is one family in France, my uncle. He has the four kids. Two boys, three girls. 3:35 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 3:40 MK: Yes. We were six sisters only. Grown up the same place, the same school, Armenian education. 3:54 JK: And can you name all your sisters? 4:00 MK: Sisters? 4:01 JK: And their ages? 4:02 MK: This one was Meline, the second Sirvart, the third Jacqueline, fourth is Madlen and Levontin, Alis, Anahit. Six sisters. Both of them go to high school, Alice and Anahit. And they learned very well English, French. We had the French School, French lesson. Oh my God. [laughs] 4:48 JK: Did you attend Armenian language school or bible school growing up? 4:56 MK: Bible, we take from school– Armenian school yes. 5:03 JK: And where was this? 5:05 MK: Religious? 5:07 JK: No, where was this? Location? 5:09 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 5:11 MK: Near our house. Lebanon. 5:20 JK: And this is in Lebanon, and did you attend language school specifically or just Sunday school? 5:27 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 5:31 MK: No, daily school. We learn French and English the same school– Armenian school. Yes. 5:40 JK: Did your parents speak Armenian in the house? 5:43 MK: Yes. 5:44 JK: Yes, and did you speak it with all your sisters and everyone? 5:48 MK: Yes, we speak all the time in Armenian with each other. 5:53 JK: Is that the first language you learned. Armenian? 5:58 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 5:59 MK: Oh, yes, mother language is Armenian but when we go to school we learn Arabic, French and English. Three, four languages we learn from school. 6:16 JK: How would you describe the Armenian community in Lebanon while you were growing up? 6:23 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 6:25 MK: Yeah, very active, very active. We had everything in those times. Very active. 6:47 JK: Did you guys have Armenian restaurants or churches–? 6:51 MK: Yes, there was very– because Armenians, the Arab people they like us, they say you are a smart people. We do not know nothing when you come here, we learn from you. Everything. 7:17 Unknown: [Speaks Armenian] 7:19 MK: Yea, they learn from us everything. 7:26 JK: Okay, so going back to your parents where was your mother born? 7:34 MK: In Turkey, Bursa. 7:36 JK: And your father? 7:38 MK: The same place, Bursa. 7:41 JK: And how did they meet? Where did they meet? 7:49 MK: In Turkey near Istanbul. One hour far from the Istanbul. 7:50 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 7:59 MK: Oh, they met each other in Syria because after massacre, people– kids they sent to the boarding school. Boarding school they met there. They choose each other and get married. 8:21 JK: Now, how did you end up in Montreal, rather than Lebanon? 8:27 MK: Oh, of course Montreal is much, much, much better. We like here. 8:36 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 8:45 MK: The reason– the first reason was it is war. We escaped from the war in Lebanon. Seventeen years civil war. We could not tolerate and we leave the country, come here to Canada. 9:05 JK: Okay, and did you attend church regularly? 9:08 MK: Before now, I cannot because I am sick. I cannot walk. 9:12 JK: When you were young, like– 9:16 MK: Yes. 9:17 JK: With your family? 9:18 MK: Yes. 9:19 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 9:20 MK: No, we were [speaks Armenian] Me and Jaqueline together we singing the church choir. 9:29 JK: And have you ever travelled to Turkey or Armenia? 9:43 MK: Yes, two times to Armenia and Turkey five times. But transit from Turkey to Holland because my husband works with Philip with Holland–always we go there. From Turkey we pass from Turkey. 10:08 JK: Now, do you have any children? 10:10 MK: Yes I have three sons and seven grandsons. 10:15 JK: Can you tell me their names and their ages? 10:19 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 10:22 MK: Oh, I know but Kegham of fifty-four, Agop is fifty-two and Evelyne is fifty. That is it. They grown up. 10:39 JK: Yeah, yes. Was it important for you to teach Armenian to them and pass it on the traditions? 10:45 MK: Oh, yes of course. Yes. 10:49 JK: In what ways did you share the Armenian culture with them? 10:54 MK: They like, they like to prefer. And they choose girls Armenian from Armenia they get married. 11:11 JK: Now, do all of them speak Armenian? 11:15 MK: Yes. 11:16 JK: And did they attend Armenian school? 11:20 MK: My sons, three of them, they attend first elementary was Armenian after they go to high school 11:30 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 11:31 MK: In Montreal. After, they study engineering. 11:40 JK: What was most of the community in your neighborhood– Was your community here, did they speak Armenian, in Montreal? 11:54 Unknown: [Translates into Armenian] 11:58 MK: Oh, yes, yes, of course. I was in Red Cross member. All Armenian, yeah. Every month, we had reunion, we go, give our memberships, we pay. Very good community, very good. They had for Armenia, what they have money they sent often to Armenia. 12:34 JK: Oh, very good. And what kind of Armenian traditions did you hold in the house that kept the culture, like food, or holiday events, what kinds of the things did you guys do? 12:47 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 13:00 MK: Holidays we get together all the time. We have some traditional table, many kinds, pastry or food, everything. 13:20 JK: And, do you have any memories from your parents about the Armenian Genocide? 13:28 MK: Oh, I have lots. I have lots my grandmother always told me. She always– she says what happened then, what happened to their country. When my father built a house for to get marry. He prepared himself to get married. Everything is new everything is good, the same day the Gendarme came to put them out ̶ [speaks Armenian with unknown] 14:14 Unknown: in Exile, deportation exile. 14:18 JK: Deportation, okay. 14:19 MK: Deportation. They put them out, everything they left there. Money, everything and they put in the railway. They reach to the Syria. 14:44 JK: And they left everything, nothing– 14:46 MK: Everything, nothing with them, nothing. 14:52 JK: And how did they get to Syria from where they lived? How did they travel? Your family? 15:08 MK: They came to Lebanon, they get marry and we are born there. But those times Syria is very good country. They liked Armenian people. They give them shelters, foods, dress everything the Syrian people. They are very, very good people, Syrian people. I know them. They are Muslim but they like Christian people, Armenian people especially. 15:49 JK: And when you were growing up in your house, did you have things decorated with Armenian culture, if so like what, like paintings or crosses or anything like that that represented the Armenian culture? 16:06 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 16:07 MK: No, after we went to school, nothing– 16:14 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 16:27 JK: In your house? 16:30 MK: I started here painting. There is and this, pillows, that is it. All mine. It is Mount Ararat. It is my job, this, yeah. 16:55 JK: Very nice. Okay, I think we are– Is there anything else you like to add? 16:59 Unknown: [Translates to Armenian] 17:00 MK: I have lots but I cannot– 17:04 JK: Yeah. 17:04 MK: I think that is enough. Because my language is very lentement, slow. 17:21 JK: [laughs] Yeah lentement– Français– thank you so much– Okay, thank you. 17:23 MK: You are welcome. (End of Interview) Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Madeleine Kachakjian Redjebian