9 10 1775 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/a66cc6f81cf3ba6948485673c63474c0.mp3 b8b2610fe141e666742058268804bf32 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. 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Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Goida, Andrew Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Politylo, Nettie Date of Interview 1978-01-02 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 46:03 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55928">Interview with Andrew Goida</a> Subject LCSH Goida, Andrew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Ansco Company; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Housing Program Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Andrew Goida Interviewed by: Nettie Politylo Date of interview: 2 January 1978 Nettie: This is Nettie Politylo, interviewer, talking to Andrew Goida at 713 Dickson St., Endicott, NY, on January 2, 1978. I understand you worked in a cigar factory here in Binghamton some years ago. We are especially interested in this industry because we don't know much about it. Why don't we start with the time you started work there? Just tell me how you got the job, what you did, what other people did to prepare the tobacco and make the cigars and just everything you remember about the operation of the factory. Andy, do you want to start talking? Andy: Well, I'll give the—when I got started—about in 1927, and what, we went, I got a job—what the stop—the tobacco—then we used to lay it out to dry—a little bit—we didn't wet it too much—just lay it out to dry a little bit—then we—it was our job to give it to the women on the machine so they would roll the cigars—so they would have to stretch it in the drum—the leaf—and they used to use the other—the ones we didn't wet the tobacco to the inside—break that and roll that one leaf on a drum and just roll—wrap the cigar up and then would cut them so long. And there were lots of women—young and old, different kind were working. Nettie: What was exactly your job? Andy: My job was supposed to wet the tobacco—in our room where I worked—there were 3 vats of water and we used to dip them in the water a little bit and shake them around so the tobacco would get nice and soft—it wouldn't crack up or anything like that. And they were making White Owl cigars and what other cigars, I don’t know—and that was the name of the factory on Emma Street there. Nettie: What was the name of the factory? Andy: White Owl. Nettie: No, what was the name of the factory? Andy: Well, it was on Emma Street and that was the name of the factory at that time—what they called it was the White Owl factory, as far as I know. Nettie: They did? About what year did you go to work? Andy: About 1927. I worked for two years there. Nettie: How old were you when you started working? Andy: Fourteen years. Then the boss, I don't know what his name is, I had—he was an old fellow, he come from the South with the company when they come up, and bought the factory or rented it or something to make the cigars. Nettie: Now this tobacco came from the South? Andy: Yup. Nettie: Do you have any idea where it came from? Andy: No. It came from there, someplace. Nettie: Now, when it came here, do you know how it came? Was it transported by truck or rail? Andy: Railroad. Yes. That boss of mine, he was an old guy when I come there, he must’ve been in his 60s then, but he, I guess must’ve been with the company all his life, pretty near. Nettie: When this tobacco came in they had to store it someplace— Andy: Oh yeah, they had the big upstairs, second floor was filled with tobacco, all over the place there. Nettie: How did they store it, in bins? Andy: In bins, yeah, yeah. They had a lot of workers up there—unloading the thing and stocking them up there— Nettie: How was it up there? Windows closed? Andy: Yeah, you just had to have so much air in there—it couldn't be too dry—had to be a little damp, was dusty as heck, you know—that's how they had to keep it, damp so that the tobacco would not dry up and crumble, them leaves, you know. So, leaves, they had them like in the bins, where they were hanging them up, you probably seen them on television now, when a walks—to a cigar factory where they have tobacco hanging up—and he walks and gets a leaf and spreads it out, he will taste or test it out or he'll put a cigar under it to light the tobacco, and he smells it to see if it is the right smell, so that's what they used to do there. Nettie: So, before the tobacco was distributed to the different people, they first had to be dipped in the water which was in the vats? Andy: Yeah, everybody had their job to do. You wouldn't put all of it. Nettie: No, but do you have any idea of the other jobs? Andy: No, not too much, because you were not allowed to go all over the factory, at that time—they were pretty strict, you know, they tried to keep all in one room where you were working, you know. Nettie: Is this all you did, was dip this tobacco in the water? Andy: Yes—well, we had that job and we had to sort it—them out to the women. Nettie: How did you sort it out? Andy: Well, so many bunches to each one, you know, so we made sure they had enough to work with for eight hours. Nettie: When you sorted it out to the women, what kind of a job did they have? Andy: Their job was just to roll the cigars, you know. They were rollers—they were rollers—just to roll the cigars. Nettie: How was the procedure to roll the cigar? Andy: Well, they had a drum, I don’t know, it was about 10 inches long or wide, you know—and they just put that leaf on that roller—and made sure it was spread out so when it goes in there it is flattened out so that it cut the leaf right in half—the knife was in the middle so they, so that one half a leaf rolled the cigar up and the other half of the leaf would roll the other cigar up, then slice it up, push it on the side. Then it was— Nettie: Was this work done by hand? Andy: No, it was done by machine—they roll the cigars by machine—and then they had somebody else come and go around where the women were working by their machine and picking up all them cigars and taking them along to the packing room, so they could pack them up. That's the only thing I know of. Nettie: How were you paid? How were your wages? Andy: Oh, we were paid in cash at that time, but the wages were, at that time, were 25 or 30¢ an hour—so we were not making too much, nobody was making that much money in them days, anyway. Nettie: That's true. Andy: And it was paid in envelopes, in cash. Nettie: You were paid by so many pieces or so many bundles? Andy: No, we were paid by the hour, hourly wages—25¢ or 30¢ an hour, something like that—probably 10-11 dollars a week for 8 hours a day. Nettie: Where you had worked—were there only men? Did they have ladies working there? Andy: No, in our room there were just men. In our room there were 4 men—3 besides me in that room where we were working. In this room—in this other room—you had to bring in the tobacco for the ladies to work on. Yes, in the other room there was about 100 women, some men on jobs. Nettie: Were they foreign women? Andy: Well, lot of them couldn’t talk by they done their work anyway. And there was some young ones too, so— Nettie: These ladies, were they mostly from Triple Cities? Andy: Yes, from Triple Cities: Binghamton, Johnson City and Endicott. Nettie: Probably most of them were foreign people. Andy: Yes, most of them, they were, they couldn't talk too good English. Nettie: How did they talk to the boss? Andy: Well, some of the women—they interpreted. Nettie: Now, some of the jobs were called rollers, bunchers— Andy: In that room where they were working, that's what they called those ladies—rollers. Then they ended up as being inspectors. Yes, they had inspectors, too. Not the women on machines—they had a couple of inspectors—I think the girl that was my brother's secretary—she was secretary and inspector there too, you know. So— Nettie: Your brother was a foreman, there? Andy: Yes, he was an assistant. Yes. Nettie: What was his job? Andy: Well, he had to see that the women had their work—we put out the tobacco in good shape where they can roll the cigar, because if it were too dry you couldn't roll the cigar right—had to have a certain moisture. Nettie: You did say your mother worked here. What did she do? Andy: Oh, she was a roller there. Nettie: This machine started the cigar, then they sliced the stem of tobacco? Andy: Yeah, on the roller in the middle there is a knife and that stem, that tobacco was just, goes in between that knife and slices it off—cut right off—the stem, the middle. Nettie: After it was sliced, you started the procedure of the cigar? Andy: Yeah. Nettie: Did you have any strikes in your time? Andy: No—no strikes at that time. Nettie: How were they to work for at that time? Andy: The company were all right to work for—they treated everybody good—as far, as long as I worked there. I know I was treated all right—a job at that time was a job, and you had to have a job. You had work—so that— Nettie: How were the conditions? Did you have coffee breaks? Andy: Oh no, at that time, no coffee breaks at that time—no, no you got there in the morning and worked until dinnertime, then went back to work. Nettie: Did you have to dress any specific way? Andy: No, no. Nettie: I understand the ladies had to wear certain aprons. Andy: Aprons, yeah. I'll tell you in that wet room we had to wear rubber aprons and boots—rubber aprons and boots, because we were always in that water. Nettie: How about overtime? Was there work for overtime? Andy: Well I know some of them did, but I never did—just 8 hours—no overtime. Nettie: How many floors did they have? Andy: Just three floors—just like it is now, Ansco. Nettie: You worked on the first floor? Andy: I worked on the first floor—that's where the tobacco came in, and that's—the second floor—that's where they stored all the tobacco—that's where they hung all the tobacco up there where they got from the boxcars—and what they had on the top floor, I don't know. Maybe another part of the factory, I never saw it. Nettie: Therefore, most people were working on the first floor. Andy: No, they had a lot of people on the second floor too, like putting on that tobacco—when we needed tobacco—they would send it down to us. Nettie: How did they hang this tobacco? Andy: Well the tobacco comes in bunches, 3-4-5 pieces together, and separate it and hang it on the wire—hand it down so it would stay—it would stay that way. Nettie: After you dipped it? Andy: Yes—so— Nettie: How long did this tobacco have to dry before you can use it? Andy: Oh, not too long—not too long after we dipped it—maybe because we didn't put too much water on it—just barely touched the water and get it up quickly— Nettie: Just dipped it into water or spray it? Andy: Dipped it—yes, on the bottom, and tipped it over in a hurry so just a little bit of water was on it, rolled down because if you had too much water on tobacco it would turn tobacco black. Nettie: Is that right? Andy: Too much water on it—then we would leave it there, shake it off good so all the moisture would be off—then we would hand it up on the wire until the women were ready for it. Too much water, it—the thing would turn it black right away. That means—they're no good—well—not good—but they would have to wait 6-8 hours before they dried up good before they can be used—you have to be very careful with the tobacco. Nettie: Imagine—because it is so thin— Andy: Yes, because it is so thin and fine—that's— Nettie: Supposing that the ladies worked on the cigar and they found a defect—what would they do about it? Andy: Oh, if there was a leaf with a rip on it or something, they would throw it out—yeah—put it on the side— Nettie: What would they do? Make a cheaper cigar? Andy: They would probably have it dry out and use it for the inside, because the outside has to be nice and smooth—have a perfect leaf—but the inside, you can put any kind of leaf. Nettie: Who would know? Andy: That's right—you would crumble it. Nettie: When you do see a cigar, you do see a hole through the center. How is that—is that the way it was rolled? Andy: I don't know—that the way it is rolled—hole is not— Nettie: There is a man who works with me, and I noticed the hole in his cigars— Andy: I don't know. I never seen them roll it, but I don't know how that hole gets there—I think it is the inside tobacco—how it rolls there—you fold that tobacco leaf and you get that hole there. Nettie: Did they use a mold? Machine— Andy: Well, they didn't use a mold at that time. There was no mold—just a thing you just rolled around the thing, you laid your tobacco on it here—like a ridge—yes, like a ridge—little ridge—your tobacco went under that and kept rolling around. Nettie: Was it a machine that was rolling it? Andy: Yes, that's the machine what kept it tight, leaf on top. Nettie: I was told when there was a reject in a cigar—you had to put a piece on the cigar—paste a piece on a cigar— Andy: I don’t know, I never done that. Nettie: Must be you never got to end of the line. Andy: See, we were only in our room most of the time. What they were doing, patching it up—I don't know how they done it. Nettie: You just know the first part of it? Andy: We were just starting it off—getting it ready for the—like I said, we were not allowed to run around the factory, just had to stay in our own department. Nettie: Did you know of any other factories around? I understand they had several cigar factories around Binghamton. Andy: I don’t know. I didn't pay too much attention—I don’t know if they had any other factories around or not. Nettie: Did you have to commute to work? Did you live in Endicott? Andy: Oh yes. Streetcar—streetcars—going all the way up. Nettie: How much did they charge for a fare? Andy: I forgot. It wasn’t much—it wasn't much. The streetcar took you to Emma Street, then catch it on Emma Street to Endicott. Nettie: When did you start working? Andy: Seven o’clock. Nettie: And you worked ’til when? Andy: Four o'clock—yeah. Nettie: Did you bring your own lunch? Andy: Yeah, brought your own lunch. They had no cafeteria then at that time. Nettie: You cannot recall any other kind of cigar beside White Owl and William Penn that were made? Andy: I don't know what kind of cigars were made. I guess they made a lot of different kinds, put different names on them. Nettie: Was one better than the other? Andy: No. Nettie: Was your boss a nice man to work for? Andy: Oh yeah, he was a nice man. Nettie: Did he look over your shoulder when you were working? Andy: No, no. Any time you wanted to ask him a question, he always told you what to do and everything. He was older—he was about 60 years old at that time—he was with the company—he always, tobacco—always got a tobacco leaf, put it in his mouth and chewed it. Heck of a nice fellow. I guess he came up here when they moved up here. Nettie: He was a good advertiser, right? I heard from several people that they were very good to their workers. Andy: They were, they were. Nettie: The workers did not seem to complain about bosses as they do now. Andy: They were—especially our boss—never bawled you out for anything, even if you done wrong—like once in a while you put too much water on it, he would come over and tell us to forget about it. Next time, watch what you are doing—take it—put it over here and let it dry out. Nettie: That was nice—no pressure, really— Andy: No, really there was no pressure—was nice working for them. Of course, that time anyway, you had to work someplace. There wasn't much work anyway. Nettie: You had to work—wasn't there other places you could work beside the cigar factory? Andy: Well, yes— Nettie: What was the reason people went to work for the cigar factory? Was it better paying? Andy: No, you couldn't get a job nowhere else. You had to look wherever you could get a job. Nettie: Jobs were that scarce. Andy: Jobs were that scarce, yeah. So after I worked there a couple of years I started to go looking around for another job—well the Depression came after that, so that there was no job for nobody. Nettie: How was it during the Depression? Andy: Terrible. Nettie: Let's talk about it. Andy: I was walking the streets for days, froze my ears looking for jobs, went to IBM—hundred time a week—thrown out of IBM— Nettie: Really? Andy: Oh yeah, locked the door, wouldn’t let me come in no more. Nettie: What reason? No work? Is that it? Andy: No work. Then I go to EJ’s—I was back and forth to IBM—that was that time it was the International, small factory up there that was just making cards on McKinley Ave. What the heck did they call it then— Nettie: Was it Time recorder? Andy: They made time clocks and cards, punch cards, there. Nettie: They were manufacturing clocks? Andy: At that time, I was back and forth—EJ and IBM—trying to find jobs, then I went to Collingwood’s and found a job there. Nettie: Endicott Johnson? Andy: That was different—that was a part of George F. [Johnson]'s brother-in-law, running Collingwood's. Nettie: What were they doing there? Andy: Shoes, they were making shoes for Endicott Johnson. Nettie: I thought they were doing something else down there? Andy: No, they made shoes all the time—then George F. wanted his brother-in-law to sell it to him. The brother-in-law said, “No, I can make a go of it.” You know, George F. used to come down there 2 or 3 times a week. Nettie: Was he friendly with the workers? Andy: Oh yes, I put in 19 years there and 28 years more in EJ. Nettie: Where did you work in EJ? Andy: All over—West Endicott, Johnson City, and Binghamton. Nettie: What was your first job at EJ? Collingwood? Andy: Wetting outsoles, to soften them. Nettie: How did you do that? Andy: Put them in the water, let them soak for 15 or 20 minutes, and then take them out and put them on the rack. Nettie: And then they were distributed to the workers? Andy: Right. Nettie: What were your other jobs? Explain the procedures. Andy: From wetting soles I went in the mauler—hang up uppers—that's the leather—for a while—from there to tacking insoles. Nettie: How did you tack insoles? Andy: They put them on a wooden shoe—insole on top of a wooden shoe, and tack it with tacks on—a machine put leather over that, and that is how they made a shoe. After that I went to toe lasting—then I was toe lasting ever since until I retired. Nettie: Was this at Collingwood? Andy: No—part in Collingwood, part in EJ—for 28 years lasted toes for plastic shoes for EJ. Nettie: Was that at Fine Welt? Andy: No, I was up to Binghamton, up—hecks, Christ, they took that bridge and they put that road in there now, up on Susquehanna Street—had a shoe store— Nettie: BB Factory? Andy: Yes. From there I come to Pioneer Factory in Johnson City and then they started to close them up, and I went to Endicott there to Johnson Welt, then from there I come down to Fairplay Factory, now Alpine, now, where I retired. Nettie: What did you do, the same thing, bed lasting? Andy: Yes, bed lasting. Nettie: Explain the procedure of bed lasting. Andy: Well, they put the shoe—well now, you put the shoe in the machine and the machine does all the work. Nettie: Is that right? How was it done before? Andy: Before, you had to put the shoe in upside down, pull your wipers in and get that leather nice and smooth around and put the wire around it—to hold the leather over the shoe until the toe trimmer gets it—trims it off—guy sews the welt on—welt is sewed right around the shoe. Nettie: Uppers next? Andy: No, uppers are already on. The welt is sewed on, then it goes up to other guys to put sole on the sole—another job, sew leather onto sole to welt, and that's how your shoe is made. Nettie: You really had quite a few jobs. Andy: Oh yeah, I had quite a few shoe jobs. Nettie: I'm sure you would be a good representative for Endicott Johnson. Andy: Oh yeah, I went all over—done everything in a shoe factory. I could start a shoe and finish it right off—right on through. Nettie: Certainly, because you have had the experience of working in EJ and Collingwood for 47 years. Do you have any recollections of the shoe and cigar industries? Andy: Well, that's about it—what I went through my lifetime working in the cigar factory and shoe industry. Nettie: Going back to the cigar factory—did they not make cigarettes, pipe tobacco? Maybe in another factory? Andy: Yeah, I think they had another factory down south. Nettie: Was it a subsidiary of this factory? Andy: Yeah, they probably made something else down there. Nettie: Do you have any idea when the factory on Emma Street was closed? Andy: Well, it closed about one year or two after I left. Nettie: You started to work around 1927, and about Depression time it was closed— Andy: Yeah, I think so, around the Depression time—sometimes—because there were no jobs to be had by nobody at that time. I would still have been working there if they had not closed. Nettie: What do you remember during the Depression times? Andy: Well, it was tough—nothing to be had. Nettie: Maybe you can tell us something of your home life during Depression times. Andy: Well, there wasn't much of a home life during Depression times. Everyone was looking for jobs and had to get along with what we had. Nettie: Where did you live? Here or on a farm? Andy: I lived on McKinley Ave. Endicott. In the factory, them guys that had jobs in EJ—why, half times they had work and half they didn't. They played pinochle or rummy or something just waiting for work to come around. Yeah, some of the guys make 5-6 dollars a week—$10 a week, depends on what kind of job you had. Nothing is going. Nettie: Gosh, how did they survive if they had big families? Andy: They got around, they made it somehow. I don’t know how they made it, somehow. Nettie: How did you manage with a big family? Andy: We had a big family, but there was some in the family who were working too. We didn't cook steaks, anything like that, but we had at home, like potatoes and buttermilk, like that haluski, she made her own bread, and everything like that. Of course you could’ve gone down to EJ—they had a restaurant—and buy a loaf of bread for 3¢. EJ gave shoes to the family that worked for EJ, for their kids. At one time, they gave fruit away. EJ gave lots of stuff away—anything they thought was good, why, they gave away. Nettie: Your home here—is this an EJ home? Andy: Yes. Nettie: Did you buy this home through EJ? Andy: Yeah, through EJ. Nettie: Did you get a cheaper mortgage? Andy: Yes. For this one here I paid $9,200. Nettie: How did you finance it? Andy: They took it out of my pay—$10 a week they were taking out of my pay for the house. We had to put a little down payment that I saved after I came home from service—then you put $1000 down—rest was $1 a week—then they raised it up to $15 a week after a few years, up until it was paid for. Nettie: You didn't have to pay carrying charges. Andy: No, that’s it. You didn't have to pay that interest. Nettie: What else did EJ do? Did they have a credit union? Sort of deduction of wages for saving? Andy: Not that I know of. All I know is mortgage on the house. EJ used to do a lot for this town. They had those Labor Day things at the park, carnival and things, and everything for people in Endicott, had banquets about every week. He was certainly very good to their workers, were good to the workers—yeah—that is why they couldn't get a union here—because EJ was too good to them. They tried about 100 times but couldn’t get in. Nettie: I guess they had faith in Mr. George F. Andy: Yes, up until Frank took over. He's the one who ruined the company— Nettie: Frank was his son— Andy: No, he was Charlie's son. So after that, the company was going downhill after Frank took over—that went all to pieces, then I guess he didn't have that compassion. He didn't care for the company in the first place. He was one of these guys—well, he had it made, so he didn't care. He wasn’t paying attention to the workers. Everybody was doing whatever they wanted to—right. Nettie: The boss wasn't there to take care of the store. Andy: He didn't know how to run it, anyway. He didn’t know nothing about the business—he didn't even try to learn about the business. Nettie: I heard he started from the bottom to learn the business. Andy: He started. He was in the factory, trying—he didn't care for it. He didn’t pay any attention to it—so. Nettie: It was a shame because it is a nice business. Andy: That's it. He got in the hole so much, they had to start selling factories to pay all the creditors. Nettie: Andy, do you have any more recollections? Andy: I'm trying to think. All I can say, I enjoyed all these years anyway—work was bad or work was not bad—I had good times. Nettie: Where did your father work? Endicott Johnson? Andy: No, he died in Pennsylvania during World War I. I was a kid—probably about a couple years old. Nettie: Did he work in the mines? Andy: Oh yeah, he had the flu—he died from the flu. Nettie: Well, tell me about your family. Let's see, you had four children— Andy: Yeah, two boys and two girls. Five grandchildren—they are all in good health as far as I know. Nettie: Your son is working in IBM? Andy: Yes, IBM—manager in IBM. And the other son, he is a boss in Berwick, PA—where they’re building that nuclear plant down there. That's a mammoth building. Nettie: What is he, an engineer? Andy: No, he was a plumber. He took up plumbing and air conditioning while in the service, in the Air Force. So he was a plumber for 2 or 3 years—finally he heard of this job down there, so he went down there four years ago and was hired because they needed plumbers down there, and he was doing a heck of a good job. His work was good, every time they inspected it he was A-1 all the time—this past year they made him a boss down there, ’cause he knew what was going on and knew his job good. Nettie: This nuclear plant—a lot of people are against this nuclear plant being around here, aren't they? Andy: They are—but will be for the future—that's what he says—that's one of the coming things. They are going to have them and they are going to build them. Nettie: Is this something we should have, as many are against them in our area? Andy: Yeah, they are talking about it—but he says that's the thing that is gonna be built. That one there, that he was working on for 3 years or 4 years, and he says they have 6-7 more years’ work on it. That's what he said. Nettie: How big is a plant like that? Andy: Oh—Christ—that's a mammoth thing. He brings pictures home once in a while to show it to me. The last one he brought home, the plant was only 1/3 built and he said there were some people down there on the grid and they were only that high (explanation was comparable as to 1 inch of a picture of a person) compared to that plant—just a big mammoth thing. Nettie: Does it take up a large area? Andy: Oh yeah, big area. Nettie: What is this going to be for? Energy? Andy: Yeah, that's what they are building it for, energy. Nettie: In other words this is something we will be having— Andy: Yeah, he says there is no danger of that thing blowing up or anything like that. Nettie: How come they say there is? Andy: Well, if they do something wrong or something, or don't hook it up right, something—then that way—but he says if you hook up everything right there's no danger to it. I think he ought to know, he works there. He knows what to do. Nettie: It sounds interesting. Andy: Oh, that kind of work is interesting. Nettie: I think a lot of these boys who had gone into the service, picking up or learned a trade—when they got out of the service they got good jobs. Andy: That's what my son did. He didn't want to go to college—well my other son, Andy, he didn’t want to go to college—he joined the service, Air Force too. He spent 3-4 years and then he came out. He didn’t take up anything, though he was in there, but he went to school. He came home, then he said, “Geez, I better go to college and learn something.” So he got a job and started going to night school. After that he went to IBM—he's good now—he’s a good manager of IBM. My other son, there, took plumbing and heating, like I said, in the service for 4 years, like that's what he done while he was there. Nettie: Tey teach them a trade? Andy: Oh yes, that’s what he did. They taught him a trade in there. Nettie: What do your daughters do? Are they in school? Andy: No, they're working for EJ, office work. Nettie: And your wife works for GE? Andy: GE. Nettie: Are you retired? Andy: I'm retired. Taking life easy—play golf every day in summertime, bowl in wintertime. I'm enjoying life now. Nettie: Getting your exercises? Andy: Right—enjoying life now—so that is the way it should be. Nettie: Andy, it sounds like you had a full life— Andy: I did, I did. I enjoyed every bit of it. I had some bad times, I had some good times. Mostly good times. Nettie: Have to forget about the bad ones, right? Andy: Forget about the bad ones. That's life—just think about the good times. Nettie: Andy, anything else you want to tell me? Andy: That's about it. Nettie: Well, Andy, thanks a lot. I appreciate very much your giving me your time. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Andrew Goida Subject The topic of the resource Goida, Andrew -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Cigar industry; Depressions -- 1929; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Ansco Company; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Housing Program Description An account of the resource Andrew Goida talks about working in a cigar factory in Binghamton, NY. He mentions that his brother and mother both worked there and details his specific job as a leaf-wetter at the cigar factory, which was in the building later owned by Ansco Company. He discusses the Great Depression and how it affected his ability to work and job availability around Binghamton. He found work at the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company. He also discusses his children's employment. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 28 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Goida, Andrew ; Politylo, Nettie Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-02 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 46:03 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/3d73c341e8f198d0ac3aa4e95f354756.mp3 9d7a36a2fde45db28cbdf7dfaafe5444 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Goundrey, Eunice Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-06-22 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 42:08 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55931">Interview with Eunice Goundrey</a> Subject LCSH Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Eunice Goundrey Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 22 June 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Miss Eunice Goundrey of 17 Esther Avenue, Binghamton[, New York]. The date is 22 June, 1978. Eunice, you've, um, been a dancer most of your life. And we'd like to, ah, hear some of your viewpoints and experiences in that line. Also, anything else that you want to put on tape for this historical project. To begin with, where were you born, and what was your family background? Eunice: I was born in Binghamton, ah, in the old city hospital which is now General Hospital. Ah, my mother and father were both Binghamtonians. Ah, my mother's family was the, ah, S.J. Kelley engraving company and my father's family…ah, my granddad was Glen Goundrey. And, ah…at one time, he was a blacksmith in the area. And he went into building custom truck bodies and eventually, as he got older, was in charge of the Spaulding Bakery, ah, garage. And that's where he retired from. Wanda: Did he have his own business, this truck building? Eunice: Yes. On Noyes Island. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The Goundreys were originally from the Elmira area—Watkins Glen—and then they, they moved to Binghamton. Wanda: So your early years were spent right here on Esther Avenue, were they? Eunice: Yes. Wanda: And you've been here ever since? Eunice: I think I'm one of the very, one of the very few people that is still living in a home that she was brought to as a baby. [laughter] Wanda: That's true, in this day and age. Eunice: I've gone away and come back and decided this is where I wanted to stay. Wanda: Well how did you get started with, with, ah, dancing? What was your, who influenced you the most on that? Eunice: My mother. Wanda: Your mother. Eunice: My mother was a dancer. Ah, she had had dance training, and though she didn't go on professionally with it, everybody that I have ever talked with, ah, said that, ah, she…had that something extra special that, ah… I never saw my mother dance. And I'm sorry I didn't, but by the time I came along, you see, she had retired and had started to teach, but I—ah, there were no movies at that time for us to capture her, but, ah, she apparently was the darling of Binghamton as far as dance was concerned, and, ah, not so much now because most of her contemporaries are gone, but, ah, people while I was younger would say, "Oh your mother was absolutely, you know, just a beautiful dancer." So she started to teach, anyway, and as my sister and I came along she felt that dance was very much a part of every person's education—whether you used it or not—you benefited from it. So when we were three, four, five years old she had ballet classes and we were expected to take them. So we, ah, did our duty. And you know, Mommy was the teacher and, ah…as we got older, she felt that we should have other training besides just what she could give us. Wanda: Was she mainly a ballet dancer? Eunice: Yes. She did very little tap dancing, but, ah, some people come to town—ah, Lou Fields and Jack Evans, which she felt—um, were of good caliber and so she enrolled us in their school for the tap dancing and continued the ballet with us and from then on, you know, we went on. But she—ah, Mommy was the biggest influence. She never pushed either of us into the dance, but she encouraged us, and I think there's a difference. Wanda: And did your sister continue…to dance? Eunice: Through high school she did, but she didn't care anything about going on further with it. And, ah, when I was in high school, I was teaching for Fields and Evans and had made up my mind I definitely was never going to be a teacher. I was off to New York to perform and that's all there was to it. Well, I knew I had to go to school, you know, to get added training and so forth, but, ah, I never dreamed I would come back and be a teacher and find the fulfillment in it that I have found. Wanda: That's marvelous. So, so where did you continue with your dance lessons after you…? Eunice: I went to the—um, Ballet Arts School in Carnegie Hall for ballet and I also went to the Roy Dodge school, for tap. Jazz was just, just beginning to come in, so that it was just one of those things, you don't know whether it's going to take hold or not and my interest was in the tap and, and the ballet anyway, so that was where I fitted. [Interruption from a motorbike] Wanda: Then—ah, how long—did you live in New York while you were going to these two different schools? Eunice: Yes—um, Shirley Lewis was a former neighbor of mine and she was at NYU at the time, and she was looking for a roommate at the time that I was looking for a place to stay. And—ah, so our mothers got together and decided that the two of us should be roommates. Wanda: And how old were you at the time? Eunice: Eighteen. [laughter] Wanda: Whee—alone in the big city, eh? Eunice: Yes. Yeah. So I went to school and—ah, for a year. Just about. Yes. And then I took the audition at...well, I decided it was about time I made some money and that was a laugh. Um—I—but I wanted to do theatrical work as opposed to nightclub work. So I took an audition at—ah—the Latin Quarter, and also at Radio City Music Hall. And the Music Hall audition came first but—ah, they said they would let us know, which is normal, and then I got a recall from Music Hall. There were about a hundred girls in the first call—in audition—and then they asked a few of us to come back again. And out of that there were another hundred that were all there for audition. And out of—well, what turned out to be about two hundred girls, six of us were chosen. And at the time that acceptance came through, ah, the day before the acceptance had come from the Latin Quarter and I was really upset because I, I didn't really want to do the nightclub work. And I thought—but, you know, I really should do something. And then the Music Hall acceptance came, so I—that's the one I took—and I've never been unhappy. Nightclub work is different than theater—ahm—it's very often—ahm—at the time—ahm—a case where you, ah, must sit down with the customers and, you know, mingle a little bit. Nothing beyond that, but…ah, between shows, I wanted the time to myself. And, you know, I wanted to be a dancer, period. And in the theater you get that—ahm, in nightclub work, you're not so apt to. Wanda: The Latin Quarter has folded, hasn't it? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: And Radio City Hall has nearly folded. Eunice: Yes, it's on its last legs. Yes. Yeah. Ahm—this, ah, last season. Where as I understand it, the state has taken over the payroll and will keep it open at least for another year. Wanda: And with the Rockettes. Eunice: Yes. And the Rockettes now are being starred as they ought to be. Wanda: Good. Eunice: Ahm—I had a notice from the alumni association saying that in this last show that they're doing, the girls are doing three different numbers instead of just one appearance, as they usually do. So the girls—I'm sure they're not getting any more money—but they are at least, you know, coming into their own. Because whenever anybody speaks about Radio City, ahm, Music Hall, it's the Rockettes that come to mind. Wanda: Naturally. Eunice: So, ah…but they were always kind of played down as part of the production. And now they are the featured ones. Which is good. Wanda: So the publicity hasn't been bad. Eunice: No. No. It's a shame, though. Now the last show before the supposed closing, the crowds were around the blocks again and, you know, people were standing in line two and three hours to get in, waiting to get in the way it used to be years ago. And since the reprieve (chuckle) has been given—ahm—the crowds are down again and, ah, so I don't know whether it's the fact that, ah, Music Hall has outlived itself. I know other large theaters in New York…got to that point, but, ah, if it has outlived itself, I will feel better that they have had a year to think it over. Ah—I was told that in December they had gotten all their union contracts signed and were breathing a sigh of relief because that gave them all another two years, you know, before this hassle would start again. And then in January the management announced that the Hall would close. So everybody was panic-struck. And—ah, you know, to me they, they were going to make a major decision with not enough time to think about it. They, to me they will never be able to replace a building like that. The—ah, it was built during the Depression when labor was cheap. Ah—it has facilities in it that probably never could be re—ah—produced, you know, this day and age. Ah—so—to have it torn down and then three or four years from now say, “Gee, you know, we don't have any facility like this." I feel in a year's time they will have at least had a chance to think it over. If then they decide to do it, I will—I will not be happy, but at least I'll feel that they have followed through. Wanda: Do you remember the physical layout? Was it built especially for the theater? Eunice: Yes…yeah. Wanda: It was probably quite revolutionary at the time, then, wasn't it—when it was built? Eunice: Yes. That stage, Wanda, is half of the size of a football field. And—ah, you know, beside all the mechanical things that I, I don't know anything about, you know, but—just to lift that huge—big—ah, front curtain took systems that were almost unheard of at the time that that was built in ‘32. So it's, uh, it was… Wanda: What were the living facilities like in the—in the theater? Didn't you have a place— Eunice: No, you never lived in the theater. There was an infirmary and there was a—well, like a, a den sort of thing for the girls to relax in. There was a cafeteria downstairs. That was for all the Music Hall force. Ah, anyone employed there was, you know, could eat there. Ahm…but it was, it was a glorified backstage life. Ahm—primarily dressing rooms and rehearsal halls. There is a rehearsal hall above the theater, ahm, that is, has the same dimensions as the stage. So that the 36 Rockettes, for instance, could, could get in the rehearsal hall, you know, to do a complete rehearsal…with no problems…with spacing and everything else. Wanda: Were there backup girls to—ah, in case somebody couldn't go on? Eunice: There were always thirty-six on stage and twelve on vacation. So if there was a problem then one of the girls on vacation would be called back in. Now you were called—ahm—it was three weeks on, three weeks on stage and one week off, but of that one week off you had to rep—I think—as I recall the week went from Wednesday to Tuesday. So you were required to be back in there on Sunday to find out your spacing from the week that you were coming in. So you didn't really have a full week off. You weren't dancing on stage, but you were, you know, required to be around. Ah—no—many a girl went on stage feeling—very badly, but ahm, the shoes went on and costume went on and the dance went on and you went off and you laid down between shows and you started all over again [chuckles] for four or five shows a day. Wanda: And how often did they change the theme of the, the show? There was always a terrific thing about the Easter show and the Christmas show and the seasonal— Eunice: Well, the holidays—ahm—governed the change of that particular—of the holiday shows, but basically it was the attraction of the movie that governed the stage show. If people were not coming to see the movie then we might run three weeks. If they were piling in, we might do the show for five weeks, because the, the stage show never changed unless the movie changed. So…and then, ah, we would have a week's notice because the, the planning—the preliminary work—is done far in advance for a show, but for staging it, it's all done within a week's time. So Mr. Markert, the Director of the Rockettes at the time, said that if you couldn't learn a routine in a week he couldn't use you. So you're learning one routine while you were dancing on stage doing another one, and—ah, it's an experience but it's, it's, ah… Wanda: Must have been a fast pace. Eunice: It was. I enjoyed it very, very much. I was also very glad to get out of it. [laughs] Wanda: What do you suppose the average, ah, time was that a girl would stay with the Rockettes? Eunice: I don't know the average. Ahm—some of the girls were there for years, and years and years. Ahm—one of the girls, I know, opened the Music Hall and she retired about ten years ago, you know, and I'm sure that was the exception, but—a lot of the girls stayed for a long, long time and there were others that didn't, and I was one of them. Wanda: Do you keep in touch through this alumni association that you have? Eunice: Yes. Ahm—during all this furor of Music Hall closing, ahm—of course there was a lot of publicity in all parts of the country. And, ah, I made a couple of phone calls to girls that I had…I knew their names but I, you know, had long since lost touch with them...but—ahm—when they wanted to interview me here on the radio, I wanted to be sure my facts were up to date, so I got in touch with one and she put me in touch with another one and—it was very interesting. There is a bond from having worked at Music Hall .. that is lasting. It doesn't make any difference whether you knew that particular person at the time or not. Ahm—the fact that you were somebody that worked in the, in the Hall, that, that makes it. So—I have a great big family that's spread all over the country. Wanda: A very exclusive club, I would say. Eunice: Yes. Yes. We're all very proud to have worked there and been part of it. 'Cause it's—ahm—well, it's unique. Ahm, there's no other house in all the world like that. The seating capacity is, think it's 6200. That's a lot of seats to fill every day—four times a day, and that's what it really should be doing, you see. And that's the problem now, that, ah, they're not filling those 6200 seats. Wanda: Well, New York itself has changed so much and so people are a little reluctant to go, just for— Eunice: I am a little reluctant to go, even—these days, ahm. If I am in the City for a dance convention or something of the sort I always go to Music Hall. I, you know I like to go and I know that's one place I can take any of my students and not have to worry about what they're going to see, but we used to always go to the last show—the nine o'clock show—and then go back to the hotel. Now we never wait for the last show, we go to the early evening, you know, six-thirty, seven o'clock, so I can get those kids in off the street. Wanda: Sad. Eunice: It is. So—and I know the people around the New York area itself are worse than I am. They won't, and they won’t go on the streets of New York after dark. So if that's the feeling in the metropolitan area, nothing's going to…I don't think, you know, be a great big moneymaker until the climate of the city changes. People going to theaters will get a hotel and—ah, take a cab and get a cab outside the theater and go back to the hotel. They're—ah, very much afraid to be on the streets. And when I was living down there I felt just as safe as anything. No qualms at all. I walked the streets completely by myself and—no worry at all, but I, I don't have that feeling now. And I don't think it's all me, having gotten older and looking at things differently. Ahm—when my brother-in-law was alive, ahm—and Dick was Assistant Chief of Police here, and he used to warn me, and when he and my sister were first married he never said a word. But he would say, you know, "You just—be careful where you go," and from him that was enough, because, that was enough warning. He was not an alarmist. Wanda: So you're very lucky to be there at the time that you were, weren't you? Eunice: I think so. Yes. Yeah. Wanda: It would be an entirely different thing now. Eunice: I don't really encourage my kids—ahm—to think theater and professional dance. Wanda: Your students. Eunice: Mm-hm. If they want to, you know, I would not discourage them, but at one time, you know, the only reason you danced was so that you could be on stage or—or—ah, continue with the dance part of it in some way and, ahm, I have felt or a long, long time and perhaps because of my mother's influence again, ah—dance should be a part of everybody's education. If, if you dance you will appreciate it, you'll also understand it better and you gain from the discipline that is required from it, as well as the grace and the poise that comes, you know, from having pursued it a little bit longer. But, ahm, I think more and more people now are looking at it that this will add to a child's education. From…as they get older what they do with it is their own business, but it's still, it's like taking piano or an instrument or it's part of the artistic education…for the youngster. Wanda: It builds confidence. Eunice: It does. It does. Wanda: And poise, as you say. Eunice: I…one of my favorite stories is, um…a dear little girl that I had years ago. Her mommy, ahm…she was a preschooler and this was such a shy child. Just, she would not come out of her little shell for anything. And we had her in class—we started in the fall, and by springtime that child was flower girl in a wedding, and the mommy said she just pranced down that aisle and nothing bothered her. And she said, "I have to thank you, because it's the dancing class that has done it." So it, you know…little things like that, ah, make it worthwhile. Wanda: Not a little thing, really. Eunice: Well, no. If you can bring a child out...yes, it's…it's a good feeling. You know that you've done something. Wanda: Have you dealt with, ah, children with physical problems that dancing has helped? Eunice: One of the reasons that I am in business right now is that, ah, when I first came back from New York, my mother got a call from a friend of hers saying that—ah, the lady's grandchild had been run over by a car and both her legs had been broken. Her doctor had taken her as far as he could, and now she needed some exercise—supervised exercise. And he recommended dancing. And would, this lady asked my mother if she would take this child. And Mommy said, "No.” She had hung up her dancing shoes for the last time. But she said, "Eunice is home and maybe she would do it." Well, when I came home I didn't want to teach. That was not—I didn't know what I was going to do, but I wasn't going to teach. So I thought it over and I thought, “Well, I'll take this child with the idea that, you know…if I decide I'm not going to do this, ahm, I will warn the grandmother ahead of time.” Well, that was perfectly Okay. So I took the child, and we began to see the improvement in her. And she was with me for quite a while, and then they moved away, and— Wanda: How did you start with her? What did you do to begin with? Eunice: Basic ballet exercises because the ballet will tone all muscles, and it makes them work, and…ah, with this youngster I had to be careful that she, ah…we didn't push the muscles too hard, because they were in a weakened state to begin. But, ah, she gave me back as much as I was giving her. And I found this reciprocation was apparently what I needed. The applause was not enough - performing, and I knew. I would sit in the dressing room...there had to be more to life than applause and backstage dressing rooms, and so forth. And, ah…so the more I got involved with the kids, the more satisfied I was. Wanda: And from that one student you started taking others? Eunice: Uh huh. And I started that child right here in the living room right in front of the fireplace. We used a dining room chair as a bar, you know, for support for her. And, ah, then the following year, ahm, I sub-leased space in the Masonic Temple from another teacher, and the year after that I was on my own. Still in the Masonic Temple, and I'm still there. Wanda: Oh, still there? Eunice: Yep. We did twenty-ninth year this year. In March I was teaching twenty-nine years. Wanda: How many recitals is that? Eunice: About twenty-eight. Wanda: Yeah? Eunice: Mm-hm. And I have no idea the number of children I've handled, you know, in that length of time. Ahm…I would say probably close to 3,000. That doesn't seem possible! (laughter). But I'm getting, now, some children of—of students of my own, you know, that I had when they were young. It, ahm— Wanda: Amazing. Eunice: Yes, it it's very amazing to me because I don't feel that much older. You know, how can  these girls have babies of their own that they're bringing to me? [laughter] Wanda: Well, it's been good for you physically, too - this sort of work, hasn't it? Keeps you young. Eunice: I've been very happy in the business. Yes. I think anybody dealing with children...stays young. And of course the dance business is an active profession. I'm not one that can sit in a chair and teach. I'm up working with the kids and—ahm, so that does keep me physically active and I hope physically young. Wanda: When do you start with them, what ages? Eunice: I don't take them before they're three and a half. There are, there are teachers that will take them younger than that, but I feel that's glorified babysitting. Wanda: Oh. Eunice: I want them to have an attention span where I can work with them. Ahm—they are not going to be ballerinas or tap dancers—well, I don't put them in tap classes 'til they're five—but they aren't going to be little ballerinas, ahm, by the time they're four and a half. But they will at least know what it is to take a—a dance lesson, and they know that, ahm, we work for a while and we also play, but we work first and then we play. And it's, it's very nice to see these children, ahm, learn the patterns that are expected of them. And I find even with the older ones that...maybe some of the problem in today's society is that kids are not given enough responsibility. When we did recital last weekend, I had no adults backstage at all. And I never have had to have. I ask my teenagers if they will take over a group of younger children and be responsible for them so they are where they're supposed to be. And when the teenagers dance, then the little ones have to stay and watch and—ah, no hitches at all, and I have never had any problems. The older ones assume the responsibility and they know I expect it of them and, ahm…they don't let me down. So I—ahm—I wonder if, if maybe we're doing too much for our kids, rather than… Wanda: I agree. Eunice: …rather than, you know, making them, ahm, letting them grow up and do the things that they ought to do as young people, if we are not trying to do too much for them ourselves. Wanda: And accept the responsibilities as they grow into it. Eunice: Mm-hm. Wanda: Then—ah, have you had—ah, some special students that you'd like to talk about—that made a career of it or anything like that? Eunice: No, ahm—one of my students—ah well, we had two of the girls…audition for, ah, one of the Roxy Theater lines. That was for one of the touring lines, and they both made it, and I was naturally very proud and the kids were pleased. So they were to go to New York for rehearsal and, ah, I think they worked for maybe three or four weeks. Ah—that's the way it was when I was working for them—and then they would go on tour. And the girls were there one week and one of them got homesick, and the other one wouldn't stay without her and so that was the end of that. (laughter). But none of my other kids have been really professionally inclined. My niece is a fine little dancer, but she has done it and completely enjoyed it, but doesn't want to follow it. She thought when she started in at Harpur last year, she might want to be a lawyer—ahm—she's not so sure she wants to do that now—ahm—she's, you know, just taking a liberal arts course, but it's—ah, there again, it's her life. She must do what she wants to with it that will satisfy her, not her mother or me or anybody else. Wanda: The dancing has been a good discipline along the way. Eunice: Very good...very good. Ahm—and she has a real flair for it. Ahm—it's—you know, I think she could do something with it if she decided she wanted to, but apparently that's not going to fill her life for her. She wants something different. And she has taught with me, you know, on a part-time basis, and she has a great way with the kids, so—um, if she ever decides, you know, that she wants to teach as a sideline for whatever profession she chooses, she can do that and, and still, you know, enjoy her dancing. But she continued this, this year even though she has been to college and, and I have no reason to think that she won't stick with it another year or two. So it's—ah, there's a lot of self-satisfaction that comes out of it as well as satisfying somebody else. It's, it's…I, I think it's, it's a two-way street. Wanda: Do you have any preference for, for teaching ballet or tap? What other types of dancing? Eunice: There is modern jazz, too. Twenty years ago I would have said yes, very definitely, that I had a choice—ahm—the tap was always my favorite, but if, now, if somebody said, "You may teach one or the other," I would feel that I had lost one arm or the other if I couldn't do, you know, everything. Ah—it becomes—each is a different expression and you're able to bring different things out of different people with different types of dance. Wanda: Modern music seems to fit in with the jazz type of dancing. Eunice: Yes. Now...the...young teenagers—they love the jazz, and, ahm—that—a ballet background helps in that. And a little bit of tap doesn't hurt either, but—ahm—the jazz is, is an expression for the young people. Wanda: More than an interpretive thing, isn't it? Eunice: Well—uhm—interpretive to a point. When you're doing modern jazz you're always interpreting somebody else's choreography. In my studio it's my choreography. Ahm—the way I would choreograph a routine. I do encourage the kids to, you know, to give to me what they're feeling with what I'm also giving to them, and—ah, it's very interesting—you get different styles coming out. But I—now there are other schools that there is one style and if you study there, you know, you must have—everybody looks alike…like they came out of a machine. And I, I, I feel that—ah, you know, the kids should be encouraged to express themselves, too. If I see something I don't like, I'll tell them. But I also, if I see something I do like, I tell them. Wanda: Do you teach—a precision routine in your classes? Eunice: Yes. That is...I have two precision lines. The junior line I call the Goundrey Girls and the senior line are the Eunettes. And—a—so that the younger kids are working to make a place for themselves in one of these two lines. So we always close the recital with the Eunettes. That has been forever and ever and ever, and it probably will be until they roll me out in a wheelchair. [laughter] Wanda: With a high kick, huh? Eunice: But it's—you know we all have our, our own thing that we do, and our studio crowd now expects the Eunettes to close the show and so we do. The thing that is difficult these days is to find music for a line routine. Now that sounds strange, but the disco beat is not a precision line beat, and it's very difficult. And this year we went back to—ah, a version of “In The Mood” for the Eunette number. Wanda: Is that a fact! Eunice: It was a new recording, but it was in the old style and it worked beautifully. In fact the Boston Pops recorded it and so we had a fine orchestra behind us...(laughter) by recording—yep. (Phone rings) Excuse me. Wanda: Um—could you tell us something about the connection with the Roxy road shows? Eunice: Yes. After I left Radio City Music Hall…ehm, I, you know…went back to school for a while and—um, I decided that I still had to make some money. I was also working at Wanamaker’s in New York and—ah, I—so I took the audition and—at the Roxy—and at the time they were hiring for dancers that they sent out on the road to do State and County Fair work. And so I—they were hiring, you know, like a hundred girls. There was no competition there, not really. And so I went out on the road the first year and during the summer and, ah, thoroughly enjoyed it. However, my family was not very happy at all. When I said I was going to work in the fairs all they could see was a 'girlie' show. And—I—my grandfather, who was very influential in my life, and when I told him, he just had a fit. And I said, "Grandpa, we will play Elmira," and we were playing in front of the grandstand, which would be an arena-type—today an arena-type show. And, ahm—the Roxyettes did five numbers in the show and then there were vaudeville acts in between. It, it was a very lovely stage show—outdoor presentation. So, ahm, I knew what I was doing, but my grandfather was far from convinced, I'll tell you. And when I came, got to Elmira, he was there waiting. (Laughter). I had made the agreement with him that he would see the show and see the set-up, and if he did not approve then I would leave, I would give my notice. Well he was there—we played Elmira for the week, and he was there the first day and he met the company manager and approved of him, which was one step, and he met everyone else and I think he was there three—or four times during that week, really checkin' this thing out for his grandchild. And—he was there to see us leave on our way to Ottawa then, which was our next stop, and he kissed me and he said, "You have a good time sweetness, you're, you're in good hands." So I got back in after, off that tour—we got back in on a Sunday, and on Monday the theater called and said, "We are doing one of the routines that you did on the road and we need a replacement. Will you please come in?" So I was there then, ahm, you know, for the rest of the time that I was in New York. So, you know, that was a case where they—ahm—apparently had had good reports on me, you know, so I walked right into that—into the theater line, there was no problem. And very much enjoyed it there, but it was there that I began to wonder, you know, is there something more to this life than applause and dressing rooms and what have you? Wanda: Was that four or five shows a day? Eunice: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. And then you rehearsed the one you were going to do, you know, prior to that, in the morning and between shows. But I made some awfully good friends there and I'm, I'm so glad I had the opportunity for those things. And then when I did come home and started to teach, ahm, the Roxy called me back and wanted to know if I wouldn't work summers for them. So I really had the very best of the two lives that I was leading. During the summer I would do the professional work for the Roxy, and I would come back home and open the school in October and work through until June and go into New York and do the same thing over again. And I did that for about seven years. So I finally decided, you know, you must make your choice—one way or the other—and the teaching meant more to me than the performing. And of course when, these days when you're teaching you can still perform with the kids. And so I, I've ended up doing exactly what I wanted to do. I'm so glad somebody didn't say to me, "You must work in an office the rest of your life." (Laughter). Maybe there are a lot of people who wouldn't want to teach dancing, but— Wanda: Well, how about the costumes? Um—I happen to know that you're a pretty good girl with a sewing machine. Ah—have you always been involved in making and designing the costumes for these recitals? Eunice: Yes. When I first started to teach we had to make all the costumes and—ah, the years have gone by, so costume business has become very commercial, and by sending measurements to various companies we are now able to buy most of the costumes at a fairly reasonable price. By the time you would figure materials and labor and, you know, having to have someone make them, ahm...at least when you order them they come...they're all alike. There are very few alterations have to be done on them. They are done with elastic backs or elastic sides, you know, for the heavier child and the slimmer child—to compensate. Ahm, and from the standpoint that I am doing the direction o the show, then I choose the costumes to go with what I feel, you know, is needed. Ah—the parents all pay for the costumes and then the youngsters have them. Ah—there are always a few that I make each year. Ahm, I think I did eight or nine of them this year that—ah, well I wanted a certain thing and I didn't find it, and in one case I had three little boys in, in a tap class, and they were going to be cowboys. And the girls’ costumes that I had found were white and they were trimmed in blue and white gingham. And they were to wear the little white western hats and, you know, have a few blue spangles. So I asked the mommies of the boys to find some gingham shirt. And they scoured this town. And one of the mommies said, "The only thing we have found is a size 8 for twelve dollars." And I said, "No way." So I made them. And we came out much better financially—ahm—and I had exactly what I wanted them to have and—ah, you know, but it, it's a rare case like that, these days, that you can't really find what you're after. Ahm—but there are so many costume houses now that there's usually a pretty good variety, and I purposely don't order from one house because then it gets to be all the same style. But, ah, costuming is a lot easier now than it was twenty years ago. Wanda: How fortunate! You'd have to have an attic overflowing. Eunice: Yes. Ohhhh. I do have one set of Santa Claus outfits that I made for my Eunettes, and—ah, that was to be an extra number at one time, so I, I made the big coats, and the girls wear red tights, you know, because for a dancing girl you have to be able to see their legs, so—ah, the Santa Claus jackets and caps I kept myself. And at Christmas time when we go around to the nursing homes and so forth, then I bring these out and whoever happens to be in the line at the time wears them—there's no real fit to them—and, ah, that makes a very nice closing to our Christmas program, see. But—ah—yes, there are many things in my attic! [both laugh] Wanda: Well, and a lot of memories in your head, too, and I thank you very much— Eunice: I've enjoyed this. Wanda: —for telling us about it. Eunice: It's fun to reminisce! Wanda: It certainly is. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eunice Goundrey Subject The topic of the resource Goundrey, Eunice -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Rockettes (Dance company); Dancers -- Interviews; Radio City Music Hall (New York, N.Y.); Ballet Arts (New York, N.Y.); Roxyettes (Dance company); Dance teachers Description An account of the resource Eunice Goundrey talks about her family's past and her mother's encouragement of her dance career from her childhood through her training at Ballet Arts School (New York, N.Y.) and the Roy and Jane Dodge school and her career as a Rockette at Radio City Music Hall. She discusses the impact of being a Rockette and later touring with the Roxyettes, a travelling dance group. She discusses her years teaching dance to children, methods of teaching, dancing as therapy, and highlights specific people and students that affected her in particular. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 29 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Goundrey, Eunice ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-06-22 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 42:08 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/dac5f0fada90b2e755d0c73b1c136734.mp3 f8587b4f1077c176261a6b0630deb715 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hallahan, William A. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1978-04-25 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:13 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55938">Interview with William A. Hallahan</a> Subject LCSH Hallahan, William A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Groton (N.Y.); Baseball players -- Interviews; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball team); World Series (Baseball); General Aniline & Film Corporation, Division of Ozalid; Little League baseball Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: William A. Hallahan Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of Interview: 25 April 1978 Dan: Ah Bill, would you tell me about your life and working experiences in the community, with emphasis on your baseball career? Bill: Do you want my birth record and so forth? Dan: Just your date and place of birth. Bill: I was born in Binghamton. Dan: Mhmm. Just go right ahead, Bill. Bill: August 4, 1902. Dan: OK. Bill: Which makes me a senior. Dan: A senior citizen, right. Bill: Then I went to, ah, Robinson Street School. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And for baseball, I went to Groton, New York—do you know where that is? Dan: I know where that is, yes, outside of Cortland. Bill: They had a good team. In those da , the plant, the factory supported a ball team and John Hadlik was the manager—he was a former Binghartton player with the New York State League and National League—and I was there for two years. That would be in 1922 or '23, so, ah, 21, 21 and 22. Dan: How old were you at that time? Bill: 18 l think, ah, so ah I did pretty well—pitched pretty well up there, and Syracuse was a Cardinal farm, of course, it was a farm then and also Hadlik was scouting for the Cardinals, so I signed with the Cardinals in 1924 at Bradenton, Florida. I remember getting into the hotel and asking where the ballpark was—clerk told me, “Go up the street a ways and turn to your right, and keep going just a few miles.” So I walked, walked it carrying your baseball suit and so on, and I got there. Ah, Herbie Sanders was our trainer at that time, and I asked him where Mr. Rickey was, you know—”find the fellow with the slouched hat near the batting cage.” I went out and introduced myself to Mr. Rickey. He called one of the catchers, Joe Sutherland—he was a veteran—and he said, "Joe," he said. I just got off the train, you might say, and I was getting ready to go on up to pitch batting practice—so I pitched batting practice. It was unheard of in those days, nobody does it, but it worked out all right, and I never saw so many ballplayers because they had played from several of their farms. The Cardinals at that time had something like 25 farm teams that were players that they owned outright for important games. Dan: But the closest was Syracuse, right? Bill: Syracuse, right. For here, so I, ah, thought, “how are you ever going to get noticed? Who is ever going to see you with all those fellows?” So all you could do was, ah, keep moving. Oh, I'd run, run, run—chase the ball, run back with it and then hit it, and they were noticing, because on the last day of training, had us all in the big ballroom of the hotel talking. Finally he said, "Well, there's one young,” said, “there’s a fella here that hasn't stopped running since he got here.” So I had to stand up and take a bow, so it did show, if you, ah, keep moving, somebody's going to see you. Dan: Right. Bill: And so, ah, I came back north with Syracuse, back up to Syracuse and stayed at Syracuse for a month, I believe, and then I went to Fort Smith, Arkansas. That was another farm, and in Fort Smith, I made all the places I never heard of before: Okmulgee, Muskogee, all those in Oklahoma and, Paron, Topeka, Kansas. I was there about three weeks, and I moved again to Kalamazoo in Michigan—Ontario League, which was beautiful, nice and cool—and, ah, I was there until the season ended, and I was doing pretty well, and I was called back to St. Louis and finished the season with St. Louis. There was quite a bit of traveling that year and we got to see all the large cities in the National League, and traveling on the trains, which was wonderful—beautiful hotels. Funny when I had never been out of Binghamton—never—so kind of a trip, you know. Well the next year, ‘25, we trained in, in Stockton, California, so there was more nice traveling. I come back and was with St. Louis, oh, ‘til June, I think, and then sent to Syracuse again. So after the season was over in Syracuse, why, I returned to St. Louis the following year, 1926. We trained in San Antonio, Texas—Roger Hornsby was the manager. Dan: What part of Texas? Bill: San Antonio. Dan: San Antonio—OK. Bill: And Roger Hornsby was the manager. I was living, I was on the trip around the circuit, as I say, when Hornsby hit .424. That's a terrific batting average. Dan: It sure is. Bill: So, ah, I started in spring—I stayed the full season—and it was the first Pennant and the World Series with the Cardinals won period, and the next year I returned to Syracuse and I finally went back to St. Louis ‘cause in those days the, ah, clubs could do all they wanted to. Could send you out for two years prior—call you back, keep you a year, send you out for two more, and if anybody else wanted you, why, the Cardinals were deep in players. They had the ah, the ah, farm system and it was great, so you just had to wait—so I won 19 games in Syracuse and we finished second, and they didn't have room for me in the Cardinals, so they wanted to go to Houston, Texas, because they promised me a pennant down there. So I didn't care much about going, but the ah, the, ah, General Manager of Houston came up to Binghamton during the winter to, ah, try to coax me into going down there. I thought it would be a bit too warm for me, but finally decided to go and, ah, I had a good year. I won something like 24 games, and we won the pennant and we won the Dixie Series and I, ah, went up to St. Louis that Fall for the World Series—the manager of Houston took me up. So then I talked with Mr. Rickey—I signed for the following years. Dan: For the following years—that was what year now? Bill: That would be 1929. Dan: 1929, and so in other words, ah, they were in the World Series in 1928? Bill: Yeah, but I wasn't with them. Dan: You weren't with them but they won, they won the Series. Bill: No—they got beat four straight. Dan: Oh, they got beat four straight. Bill: I went up to see them— Dan: Oh, I see, OK. Bill: But in 1929, ah, Billy Southworth was the manager and I didn’t get to play too much—I won 4 and lost 1 game. In 1930 Gabby Street came in and then I started out pretty good. We won the pennant that year and played the Athletics. We didn't win, we didn't win the Series, but ah I pitched a shutout—I won one and lost one. Dan: This was in the Series? Bill: 1930. Dan: 1930, against the Athletics. Bill: Mhmm, in 1931, we played the Athletics again—we won the pennant. I won 2 games, won 2 games and saved the 7th in that Series, and then in '32, '33, '34 we won the pennant and played Detroit. I started the second game in Detroit, and it was a good game and I was relieved in the 8th—pitched 8 and two thirds innings, I think. The score was tied and a man on First, and they brought in Bill Walker. He picked the man off 1st base, and the game went 12 innings—we lost 3 to 2—there was no decision. So then I stayed with the Cardinals until '36, and then I was with Cincinnati a year and with ah Philadelphia a year, and those were ah, years you like to forget, you know. In the last years, everything was downhill, but ah, ah then when I came back home, I was worked with the Atlantic baseball school—they used to have, Atlantic Oil used to have a baseball school they run the summer. Whitey Anderson was the head of the baseball school. Dan: That's here? Bill: Mhmm, in Binghamton, and that would be in 1940 and in 1941—the War started in December 1941. Dan: Right. Bill: I was in the Army in August 1942 up at Fort Niagara. They had a good ball team up there too—I didn't play—I coached a little. We played, ah, pretty good teams, and ah, I stayed up there ’til—see, March the following year in '43, I think, and we had, ah, we were over 38, you see, you get out of service—they released us. Dan: I see. Bill: So that's how I got out. Dan: So in other words you just went up to Fort Niagara and you stayed there and coached baseball? Bill: I worked in the records and assignment. Dan: Records and assignment—but you, ah, did coach some teams up there? Bill: Yeah. Dan: And then you were discharged in '43. Bill: In '43 of March, went to Ozalid, and I was with Ozalid for 20 years. Dan: Until ‘63. Bill: ’Til ‘63. Dan: Uh huh, and you retired from Ozalid, and in what capacity did you work for Ozalid? Bill: I was a foreman. Dan: A foreman—in what department, Bill? Bill: I was, ah, warehousing, receiving, receiving warehousing and supply clerk. Dan: Mhmm. Bill: And so that one time it was on Clinton Street—ah, that big warehouse that Ansco has now. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill; We had that when it was first built. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: So that about takes care of it. Dan: Now getting back to your baseball career—at the height of your career, which would be with the St. Louis Cardinals when you pitched in the, ah, let’s see, the World Series against the Athletics that you won—you won 2 pennants in the 2 World Series. Bill: We won 3 World Series out of—we was in 4 World Series—we won 3. Dan: Yeah, pardon me just a minute Bill. (Wife turns on TV too loud). OK. Bill: Won 2 out of 4. Dan: Won 2 out of 4? Bill: 3 out of 4. Dan: 3 out of 4, OK. Now at the height of your season, what was your salary per year, Bill? Do you mind telling me? Bill: No. I think it was around 7 or 6—I got more than most of the fellas—it was around $7,000. Dan: $7,000—quite a difference from what they get today. Bill: I mean, that was when I got first started. I ended up getting $13,500. Dan: $13,500 at the height of your career—that would be pitching with the Cardinals. Bill: Regular pitching. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Yeah, regular pitching. Dan: What was the best year you had in the, ah— Bill: '31, when I won 19 and lost 9, I think, then won 2 games in the World Series, saved the 7th and deciding game—led the League in strikeouts. In 1930, I played, I led that both years, I led the League in strikeouts. Dan: You led the league in strikeouts? Ball: I won in walks too, probably. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Branch Rickey used to say that if you can strike out more than you walk, why, you have some advantage. Dan: How did you get the nickname "Wild Bill"? Bill: (Gesturing) Dan: That's it—by walking. Bill: By in and low, which you call it—control—in the early days, but ah, ah, a power pitcher always has a little more trouble with control than a— Dan: Uh huh—now, did you ever pitch against the Yankees? Bill: Oh, in spring training, yes. Dan: Spring training, but not in the regular season. Bill: No, because they're— Dan: Same league. Bill: They're in a different league. Dan: Different league—yeah. Bill: I pitched against some—quite a few of the Yankees, in fact. I started the first All-Star game in 1933—Babe Ruth hit a home run. Dan: Off of you? Bill: Yeah, so that's one reason. Dan: Who were some of the other members of your team that, ah, that ah won the Series? Bill: Oh, ah, in the thirties, '30, '31, Jim Dowling, Frankie Frisch, Pepper Martin, ah, Chick Hafey and Charlie Delbert and Jess Haines, Burley Grimes, and in ‘34 it was the Dean brothers, Paul and Dizzy Dean, Pepper Martin, Joe Medwick, Vern Lasabe—Frankie Frisch was the manager, Leo Durocher was shortstop, Rip Collins, Jim Collins was first base. Dan: This is on the— Bill: The ‘34 team. Dan: ‘34 team. Bill: '34 team. Dan: The Cardinals. Bill: Yeah, we beat Detroit then. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Mickey Cochron caught and managed Detroit, but ah, I roomed with Jim Bottemly and Joe Medwick. Bill Christy and an awful lot of those fellas who were on those both teams are in the Hall of Fame. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Yeah—quite a few of them. Dan: Have you ever been considered for the Hall of Fame? Bill: Oh, gee, they're standing in line waiting. Dan: Standing in line. Bill: They's so many of them. Dan: Yeah—any highlights stand out in your mind at all, as far as your baseball career? Bill: Well of course the, ah, World Series games, and in 1930 I pitched a game in Brooklyn, we went, we went into Brooklyn 1/2 game out of first place for a 3 game series, and I pitched against Dazzy Vance, who was quite a pitcher. Dan: Yeah. Bill: So I pitched the first game and won—it went 10 innings and I beat him 1 to 0, and they said that was the game that won the pennant for us, because we won the next two games against Philadelphia, and we came back to St. Louis and the season was over at St. Louis, so ah that was quite a one that I remember, you know, especially against a pitcher like Vance—he was one of the real power pitchers in my days. Dan: Yeah, uh huh—have you received any awards at all, Bill? Bill: Oh nothing for, ah— Dan: Any honors or anything like that? Bill: Nothing, only what all the other fellas would get for being on the team—you got a World Series ring. [Shows it to Dan on finger] Dan: Is that your World Series Ring? Bill: That's a 1934 World Series Ring. Dan: Uh huh—I've never seen one. Don't take it off, Bill—leave it on—don't take it off. Bill: You can see a little better, and when we were out, ah, in— Dan: You must have received, you must have received 3 of these. Bill: Yeah—we got this. [Shows Dan his watch]. Dan: This is a wristwatch. Bill: Yeah, in '76 we went to St. Louis for a reunion of the team that won the first pennant and World Series in St. Louis history. Dan: Is that right? Bill: And, ah, each got Longines Wittnauer from that reunion, and then I have a picture upstairs, a painting, from a photograph I got in '73—a reunion of the fellas in the first All-Star game. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And, ah, you get a lot of, quite a few. Dan: The fact you got three World Series rings—that's really something. Bill: Well it is, because it has to have some measure of luck, you know, to be on the teams that are—I know a lot of the fellas that were great players that didn't even play on one team, not on our team. That's the way I happened to, ah, and at that time all the players would come up through the farm system. Today they, they come free agents and so on—we didn't have any of that. Dan: Yeah—what do you think about the salaries that they're getting today, Bill? Bill: Well I think— Dan: Do you think they're worth it? Bill: Well of course nothing is, ah. Dan: Everything is inflation, you know, today. Bill: It isn't what you're worth actually, it's, ah, if they can pay them, if they can make enough money. Dan: In other words a drawing card, right? Bill: If they can hit, why, they must deserve it—they couldn't get it, that's true. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Things are different today, ah, in everything, is different. Dan: ‘Course you've got to consider the fact that when, ah, when the height of your career there wasn't any television. Bill: No. Dan: Which is, ah, a big item. Bill: Oh, that’s made the—ah, television and, ah, night games. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: They didn't have that—why I played most of my, ah, ah, during the Depression. Dan: Right, right. Bill: And every city you'd see, there'd be people hadn't seen anything ’til they see the soup lines. Those people were really hungry. Dan: Uh huh. Now when you, ah, got out of service you went right to Ozalid—you worked there for 20 years and you're getting a pension from them, of course. Did you do any coaching at all in the 20 years that you worked? Bill: No, the only thing I coached was the Little League when they first had the Little League team—League in Johnson City. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: And, ah, they asked me if I’d take over, and ah, we, ah, spent a lot of time with them because the kids wanted to play. We played twice a week, ah, but they wanted to have another game on Saturday, and so we used to play and, ah, we won the pennant—went as far as Liverpool, we played some of the finals—the semifinals in Liverpool. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: We got beat in Liverpool 2 to 1, but we had a good time. Dan: You mentioned when Branch Rickey was watching you in batting practice, was that in Syracuse or was that out in St. Louis? Bill: No, that was in Bradenton. Dan: Bradenton. Bill: Florida, spring training. Dan: Oh, in spring training. Bill: Spring training. Dan: I see, I see. Bill: But, ah, today everything is different of course. Dan: Oh, sure. Bill: In those days you'd know who, ah, one of the stars were, but today you wouldn't know—they all come out together at once—you wouldn't know who's the star and who's the rookie. The rookie is liable to have a good big a car as the stars—maybe he got a bonus for signing or something like that, and ah, everything was different—even the ballparks are all tremendous today. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Ah, the ballparks you knew, the ballpark in Philadelphia in the National League was so small they called it "Baker Bowl.” It was, ah, very small—the seating capacity was nothing. The Shibe park was a much better park, that was in the American League park. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But today everything—in St. Louis is a big beautiful locker room, wall to wall carpeting all on it. Dan: Oh, sure. Bill: Beautiful showers. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And the trainer has a room with all of his equipment. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And the equipment manager, the only fellow I know on the team, Butch Yatheman—and he was a bat boy when I was there—now he is the equipment manager, so he's been there 50 years and, ah, all that, ah, ah, of course the traveling is different, everything is by plane today. Dan: Right, right. Of course they play, probably, ah, more games per season too, now? Bill: 160, 160—they used to play 154. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: 160 or 62. Ah, I don't think there's as much togetherness now as there were at that time, ‘cause we were together on on the train and fellas had time to talk, and you'd talk baseball even in the lobbies of the hotel in the evening, it was great for down in and hear the veterans talk, you know. Dan: Sure, sure. Bill: I don't know how they do that as much now, because, why, they go from St. Louis to Chicago in a couple of hours and, you know, didn't have much time to speak—you're just in the ballpark and when you're in the clubhouse. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But, ah, sometimes we'd go from St. Louis, ah, at least once a year to Boston—Reds back too. Dan: Mhmm. There was so much publicity over Maris breaking, ah, Ruth's homerun record that one year, but he played in more games than Ruth did. Bill: Oh yes, they all did so, do— Dan: Actually it isn't, it isn't a fair comparison, is it? Bill: Well, ah, you shouldn't—it wouldn't be, because and then you'd have to look at how many walks did each get—intentional walks? Dan: Yeah. Bill: You can't hit if you're walked—that's for sure, and the same with Hank Aaron. I mean they keep in more games. Dan: Yes, yes. Bill: But if you ever checked the number of times they were walked intentionally—but that's the difference. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: In my, my—those fellows deserve all the credit, you know, they— Dan: Oh sure. Bill: —A lot of credit, but I always thought, ah, ah, the home run hitter—I will always remember—Babe Ruth. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I mean he looked so much the part. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: He looked, ah, ah, when he was at bat—everything stopped—came to a standstill, you know. Everybody wanted to see him swing, but he did swing because he was one that say, he looked good striking out. Dan: Yeah. (Laughter). Bill: You know, aren't many that said looked that good. Dan: Right, right. Bill: That's quite a compliment when they say you look good striking out, and oh, when we came north we always played exhibition games—now they go direct from the, ah— Dan: Spring training. Bill: Spring training, right, back, ah, their home base. Dan: Right. Bill: But we used to play all over the south—if we ever come in, ah, for instance, some of our fellows would hit a long ball. Gee, they say some native here said, “Oh, the Yankees were in here last week and he hit one, he hit one that far, you know. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Way over there, 500 feet. Dan: What was your best pitch, ah, Bill? Bill: I had a fastball and a curve. Dan: Fastball and curve, uh huh. Bill: Yeah, and I wasn't quite as tall, as big as some of those fellows, but we had a fellow on the team—Paul Derringer, he was 6’3" or 4". Dan: Uh huh. Bill: But I could throw as hard, so you make by. Dan: You lack one thing—you make up on another. Bill: Yeah, I could be, ah, throw hard and ah, have a terrific curve. Dan: Uh huh—well you've got a lot of nice memories, Bill. Bill: Oh the nice part about it, be able to look back and— Dan: Reminisce. Bill: When we, ah, like in ‘76 we went to St. Louis, there was 7 then out of the 27—there'd be 27 on the team. Dan: Only 7 left out of 27? Bill: Right. Dan: Is that right? Bill: Out of the first Pennant winning team—7. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: So they, they fade away. Dan: You look good, though, Bill. Did you just get back from Florida? Bill: That’s right—I had a little tan. Dan: Good. Bill: But, ah, we missed a good winter here, I guess. Dan: (Laughter) You picked a dandy. Bill: Well, it was bad all over the country. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: It was, it was the wind every day and a chill. Dan: Right, right. Bill: But the sun was warm. Dan: Uh huh—now you belong to St. Patrick's Church, Bill. Bill: Yes. Dan: Uh huh, but do you belong to any clubs, any fraternal organizations or anything like that? Bill: Let’s see, I belong to the Elks, Knights of Columbus 4th Degree, ah, Veterans, Clinton Street—the 1st Ward Legion. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Let’s see what else—the, ah, Baseball Players’ Association. I guess that's it. Dan: That's it—now do you have a reunion every year? Bill: Oh no—just for certain special things. Dan: Just, just, yeah—‘course, just being 7 of you left, why— Bill: Oh, that's first time we ever got together. Dan: Yeah, yeah. Bill: But ah, well, I've been out to Houston a couple of times—in New York too—the Stadium, and I’ve been out to St. Louis 6 or 7 times. Dan: Is that right, yeah? Bill: Because they'd have a reunion for all the different teams— Dan: Right. Bill: —that won a pennant. It's all been great. Dan: Yeah—did you ever pitch at any old timers’ games down in Yankee Stadium? They usually have an old timers. Bill: That's when I was out there, it was 1962 or 3. Dan: 1962 or 3. Bill: Yeah, but I didn't care about going out to pitch, because some of the fellows were coaching and so on, and they were in better shape than some of the older players. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Some of the players would get, ah, what's the use if you didn't get injured during your playing days? Why do it when you're a senior? Dan: Right, right—you never had any serious injuries, did you, playing, Bill? Bill: No, I was fortunate. Dan: Oh, you were lucky. Bill: Yeah, yeah, I was able to go through all that without. Dan: Right. Bill: And, ah, we don't get a pension—it didn't start until ‘45. Dan: No pension plan? Bill: Now they get a pension in 5 years. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I played about 11 years. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I have a lifetime pass. Dan: Uh huh. Bill : A silver lifetime pass—I've never used it. I hang on to it. I'd go, ah, but I don't know any of the players now. Dan: No, no, you're going back quite a few years. Bill: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Bill: If I lived a lot closer I'd go, but I'd drive down for overnight or something like that just for— Dan: Well, is there anything else you'd like to tell me, Bill, or anything you can think of? Bill: No, before I got hit with a respiratory ailment in ‘69. Before that I used to play once in a while with Bishop Harrison when he was Monsignor. Dan: When he was known as McGee. (Laughter). Bill: Oh, I saw him down to the Broome Open last year, you know, when he was playing with Bob Hope and, ah, what's his name? The Merry Mex, ah, Lee Trevino. Dan: Lee Trevino, yeah. Bill: And ah, I followed him around for awhile—they had some fun—you know, they're all, and ah— Dan: You mentioned you played with Father Harrison now. Bill: Playing golf, yeah. Dan: Oh, playing golf, yeah. You know he used to be Assistant Pastor—no, was it? Yeah, he used to be over at St. Mary's and he used to play with Father O'Brien, and it came out in the paper, of course it wouldn't be Father Harrison but he'd be playing under the name of McGee. Bill: Yeah, but he taught me, he said he played out to Notre Dame—he was on the ball team out there, but he had a chance to go and really try in Minor League if he had a chance to go up, but he was going to do something else, but he used to be around the ballpark up there when I was playing up in Syracuse—old Star park. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: I used to live up on Tipperary Hill when I was in Syracuse. Dan: Tipperary Hill. Bill: Yeah. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Up on, I think it was Hamilton Street—sometimes I forget, rather I stayed with people named Hamilton—it sounds like it was a street. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Up on Tipperary Hill. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: The green was always on top. Dan: What was this farm team, this St. Louis farm team called up at Syracuse? Bill: Stars. Dan: Stars. Bill: St. Louis Stars—the Syracuse Stars. Dan: Syracuse Stars, yeah. Bill: Shanks Shaughnessey was the manager one year up there and then Barney Shotten was the manager in '27 and he—we had quite a good team. He went to Philadelphia after and managed for a few years—he managed Brooklyn. Dan: Now who was managing when you won the series—those 3 years? Bill: Oh, Hornsby was managing them in ‘26. Dan: That was the farm league. Bill: No. Dan: Wasn't that the farm league—when you were down in Texas? Bill: No, oh, that was Snyder, Frank Snyder was managing the Houston team. Dan: I see. Bill: In St. Louis then, in ‘26, Hornsby was the manager. Dan: I see. Bill: And in ’30 Gabby Street, and in ’31 Gabby Street, and in ’34 Frankie Frisch. Dan: Frankie Frisch, uh huh. Bill: And he was killed a few years ago, coming north when a train came. Dan: Yes, yes, I read about that. Bill: Car accident—he was quite a ball player, he was. Dan: Yeah. Bill: God, he was a good one. Dan: Yeah. Bill: And Medwick, 2 years ago I think he died. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Had a heart attack, and he was working with the Cardinals—he was the batting instructor. Dan: Uh huh. Bill: Well I think I've covered pretty well, haven't I, ah? Dan: Oh that's fine, Bill. I'll, if you like, I'll play it back for you. Bill: OK. Dan: Now Bill, you mentioned that you, ah, played in the 1st All Star game in 1933. Bill: Right. Dan: Now could you name the members of the team? Bill: No, I don't think so, I— Dan: The National League team. Bill: Yeah, I may be able to name most of those fellows, but ah, ah, to go through to name the American League, I don't. Dan: No, just your own team, your National League All-Stars. You were pitching, right? Bill: Yeah, and Gabby Street was catcher—I mean this is the starting, because they kept entering. Dan: Yeah. Bill: Gabby Street catching, Bill Terry was playing first, Frankie Frisch second—now if I can get the shortstop, ah, skip that for a minute. Pie Traynor was playing third, ah, Chick Hafey, Paul Waner, Mel Ott I think. Dan: Mel Ott. Bill: Mhmm, I know they played sometime during the game. Dan: Yeah, right, but that was the first World Series. Bill: All-Stars. Dan: All-Stars, rather, first All-Star game. OK, well thank you very much, Bill. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with William A. Hallahan Subject The topic of the resource Hallahan, William A. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Groton (N.Y.); Baseball players -- Interviews; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball team); World Series (Baseball); General Aniline & Film Corporation, Division of Ozalid; Little League baseball Description An account of the resource William A. Hallahan talks about his upbringing in Binghamton and the start of his baseball career in Groton, NY at the age of 18. He discusses playing for the<a href="http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=stl"> St. Louis Cardinals </a>and winning 3/4 of the World Series games in which he pitched. He also notes his time as the starting pitcher for the National League in the first All Star game in 1933. He details friendships with some of the big names in baseball of the time, including Babe Ruth. He later worked for Ozalid as a foreman and also as a coach for Little League baseball. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 30 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hallahan, William A. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-04-25 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:13 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/7de22e694bb21a5f6e7a43dfcb9a779d.mp3 bce9c63c7d9128252c4e4bf8abefc29e https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8881fcd0ab9d15c042aaef388c0b889e.mp3 544e6fe8a1a040be96df98f7592d9782 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hanifin, Michael J. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-12-13 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45:25 Minutes ; 40:27 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55934">Interview with Michael J. Hanifin</a> Subject LCSH Hanifin, Michael J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Police -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Prohibition; Endicott-Johnson Corporation; Willis Sharpe Kilmer; Binghamton City Mayor; Charles Kress; Stickley Furniture; Crandall, Stone & Co. Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael J. Hanifin Interviewed by: Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 13 December 1977 Dan: This is Dan O’Neil: interviewer. And I am interviewing Michael J. Hanifin. 95 Murray St, Binghamton, New York. Mike is a former police chief here in the city of Binghamton. The date is December 13, 1977. Mike, being a retired police chief in the City of Binghamton, tell me about your life and experiences in the community. Michael: Well, I was born on Pine St. At the age of one year, my parents moved to Liberty St, where I lived and went to the Robinson St school. I graduated from the Robinson St school. The high school, but did not go all, went to work instead at Crandall Stone's on Court St at the salary of $4.50 a week. I got a raise, I believe at $6.00, before I left there and went to Stickley’s and Grant Chair Factory, where I took a job as stock clerk and in a little over a year I was superintendent of the finishing department. Well I was making $1500 a year then, straight time, but the police department was the only place where they had a pension system, and thinking of the old days, I decided to take the examination. I turned the job down three times because I'd have to take a cut in pay of about 50%, and also work seven days a week. So in 1917 I decided to apply and was appointed. I worked six years as a patrolman on duty and two years on a motorcycle when I was appointed Sergeant, and a couple of years later, I was appointed Captain, and, ah… the title was changed to Assistant Chief at a later date, and then finally in 1942 I was appointed Chief of Police. In regard to my appointments, the examinations I took, I passed first for Detective, first for Sergeant, first on the list for Lieutenant, and first for Captain, and of course the only three jobs I was appointed to was Sergeant and Captain. The wages of a patrolman was $65.00 a month, and they deducted, ah, your pension payments from that amount. You had to work a year in order to get two weeks vacation. In other words, I worked 17 months before I was entitled to pick a vacation due to the old men picking first. That, as I say was, in 17 months that was the first night I had off duty—all night work and the only assistance you had was a police whistle. If you got in trouble you had to handle it yourself—no police boxes, no radios or any of those things they have today. The most important case that I was involved up—involved in, rather—was a holdup of the streetcar place on the upper State Street, when three holdup men with guns held up the place around 3 o'clock in the morning and got part of the day’s receipts. So I was just getting through duty when the call came in and, ah…I, ah, ordered them to get four or five officers from their posts and I—one officer earlier had seen a car parked on ah Thorpe Street, so with the other officers I went down there and I went to the door. There was a light in the house, it was a twin house and I ah rapped the door. The lady came and she said, I asked her, "Is there any trouble around here?” and she said she was setting up with a sick baby, but she insisted on me going up and see the baby, which I did. I asked her who lived in the other part of the house and I believe it was her father-in-law. So then we started knocking at that door—it was a bitter cold morning, December 15th and, ah, I had the officers placed around the house at important points, and all of a sudden I went out to see if there was any footmarks in the snow leading into the house, when all the lights in the house went on and the officers called from the side to me to come around, and as I was going by, I saw they had one of the holdup men in the kitchen sitting in the chair and the officer standing over him with a gun, and then I went around to the rear and here's two more of the holdup men coming out of the cellar with their hands over their heads. So, in my opinion, it was a very very important arrest. There was two unsolved holdups in the city—the Kroehler Manufacturing payroll and the Gotham Shoe payroll—and out of that arrest, they cleaned up both of those incidents, and, ah, while the officers was going by the cellar window where the men were, they saw them with their guns in their hands and they hid three revolvers in the cellar. So I took them to the Police Station, where I questioned them at some length and they, they sent two officers over to search the cellar and they found the three guns up in the rafters of the cellar, and, ah, in the course was locked up and, ah, District Attorney Gold was elected to take office the first of the month, and that morning he started on December 15th, and the men were tried and convicted, but in my opinion in my 46 years in the Police Department and I believe in the history of the Police Department, that was probably one of the most important arrests that was ever made. Dan: That was in what year, Mike? Michael: 1933, I believe. Dan: 1933. Michael: Yeah. Dan: That was…you mentioned a streetcar holdup. Michael: Yeah, but the streetcar—they had the day’s receipts. Dan: Oh, I see. Michael: That, the barns up there and they, you know where the streetcars started out, where State Street, up there by the garbage place, and, ah, as I say, in those days when I was appointed Sergeant, there was no such things as cars like they have today. The Sergeant went to work at eleven thirty at night and the particular night shift, the officers went to work at eight and got through at four. Well, as a Sergeant, they used to take a different route each night, but the only assistance I'd get was a ride when I’d take the streetcar up to the East End to start and get out near East Junior High School, see the officer in that area, then I'd have to walk over to Chenango Street up as far as State and Chenango Streets, then I'd see them between there and the viaduct. I had to see two there—they alternated on the corner there, one would walk around his post one hour while the other stayed there, then the other would do the same thing the next hour. Then I'd have to walk over to Clinton Street, see two officers over there, and then from there down to Glenwood Avenue and Clinton Street, see the officer there, then across the Main Street and walk up and generally see the officer there at ah Main and Jarvis, and then from there up to Main and Front Street where they alternated there, one walking around his post one hour while the other one was on the corner, then I'd have to go over town, walk over into the 5th Ward, see the officers there, then up to the 6th Ward, see one there near Crowley's Milk Plant or in that area generally, and from there over to Liberty and Court and see the officers there, and down through Court Street and see the officers on the different corners. Then I'd have to do that before 3:30 in the morning and then I'd have to take the officers that was going out to their posts, while there wasn't too many then, maybe a dozen officers—the most of them were on nights. Then I would have to go around and see them on their posts before reporting off duty. If I had a car like they do today, I could do most of it in an hour and a half. Dan: Did you have to walk all that distance? Michael: Walk it. Dan: Didn’t you even have a bike? Michael: No, no, walk it. And seven days a week. Dan: No days off? Michael: No, no days off. You got two weeks vacation and you had to work a full year before you got it. Now, today they allow you so much for so many months you work, you know, in that first year. And they get a month and a week for holidays or so as I understand it—why, there’s no comparison. One of those, why and I must say that officers in those days demanded respect. There’s no young hoodlums walking around up to them and saying, “Oink, oink,” like there is today and getting away with it. No wonder there's no discipline. Dan: You were Sergeant at the time you had to go make all those calls? Michael: Yes, yes. Dan: And that was what year, Mike? Michael: Oh, I was appointed Sergeant in 1925. Dan: 1925. Michael: And I passed First for Detective, but the, the Commissioner has a choice of the first three, and, ah, a fellow named Casey got it but—which was all right, he was on a long time—he was friends of, to pick any of the first three. Then I passed First for Lieutenant, but in the meantime they were changing Chiefs when Hunt was Chief, and, ah so they ah appointed Abel to Captain, Chief, and to my surprise they sent for me one day and said, “We might as well do this all at once—we're making you the acting Captain.” I was first on the Lieutenants list, but they didn't appoint me because they intended to appoint me Captain, and as a matter of fact I was working as an acting Captain drawing a Sergeant's pay, and I was over the Lieutenants was drawing more pay than I was. That’s the way it was—you had to be appointed permanently before they gave you the money—today they make you acting, they pay you the money. So as, ah—was appointed Chief in 1942, and, ah, Chief Abel took a position with Remington Rand when they came here and started a plant in Johnson City, and he took over the protection duties down there, and, ah, then I worked from then until I was 70 years old, when I retired. Then of course in those days, ah, ah, we had of course naturally the petty little places where workers used to go to gamble, but never know that gambling as they’d try to make it out one time, and, ah, I know places where the so-called big shots were gambling, but you never hear any complaints about that—but the poor working man, why, they raided the place, you put the players in too in those days. And then as far as disorderly houses, there was one on Wall Street, and I wouldn't want to mention some of the guests that they had there cause it would surprise most of the people in the city. Dan: Was that run by Dora Warren? Michael: Yes. and, ah, I used to have to question them after we marked the bills and give them to what we call the stool pigeon to go up, to go in there, and then the police matron would take money from the girls when they'd be brought to the Police Station, and when you showed them the numbers on the bills, they knew they were sunk and they'd generally admit. Dan: Were you on the force, Mike, when there was a troop? The troop was here from either the CCC or else they were training here for some reason or another, and they, one of the fellas robbed Dora and they had to call the Police. Could you tell me about that? Michael: I don’t remember too much about that. They raided it while they were here, I know, but the details—why, it’s been so long ago. They were camped up there, I believe up near Deforest Street for a while, but ah, at the time I know there was, you know, an interesting story, but I cannot for the life of me remember the details. But, ah, to me that was one of the most disgusting things that I had to do, was to be questioning those, because I could not see them at all—no how. Dan: Now, during Prohibition days, Mike, what about—did you have to conduct many raids or anything? Michael: Yeah, ah, they had a vice squad that would raid now and then, but, ah…they always had places, naturally. That was a law that never should have been passed, the Volstead Act—and get arrested, but they would be right back in business again. Dan: What are your recollections about the Chapman Hotel? Are you acquainted with that? Michael: Well, ah, that was quite a place, ah, but ah it was just working people went there—they, you know, at the corner of Liberty and Henry Streets. And then later one of the Chapman boys owned the hotel, it was the old McDonald Hotel on Lewis Street. Dan: That’s the one I have reference to. Michael: and, ah, as I understand it, they did pretty good, but I cannot remember anybody that was in the bootlegging game as they called it—even those who was supposed to make quite a sum of money—that didn't die broke. Not a one. I can’t remember one that really, you know, so there must be some curse to the liquor. and, ah, also there were several of them on the North Side—their wives died young. It seemed that there was a curse to it. I don't know what it is, but ah I’ve known too many cases, you know, where they all had hard luck. Dan: I know they used to refer to it as 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock Mass up at the Chapman Hotel, and they thought the Irish used to go to church up there. Michael: Yeah, years ago, too, you know, when—well, even before Prohibition, they had a ladies’ entrance, you know, to most, you know, “high class places,” they'd call them that—ah, the lady would look up and down the street for 5 minutes and then duck in. You know, she'd be so ashamed to go in there—today they go right in and push the men away from the bar. Well I, in those days it was a rare thing even to see any promotions in the Police Department. The superior officers, they'd work until they were ready to drop dead, and they were all fine husky men and as I say you work all night on the post—wherever you lived, you had to walk home in the morning at 4 o'clock, so you got plenty of exercise, and as I said before, the only real protection you had was a whistle. If you got in too much trouble you might blow that, somebody might hear you—and phones were scarce. There wasn't too many in a particular neighborhood, but somebody might call the police station and ask for help, but that’s the only way. Today they have radio, walkie-talkie and all the different communications. Dan: When were firearms first introduced for the policemen? What year? Do you know, Mike? Michael: Oh, of course they were. They had always…I imagine they always had firearms. Dan: Well you mentioned that all they had was whistles on the beat for protection. Michael: Oh, they had firearms too. Yeah, I mean like having another officer there like they do now, come in the car and what have you. Oh they always had firearms, always you had the firearm, but I mean that without using your firearm, I mean the only protection you had for the calls for assistance would be a whistle. Dan: I see. Now you had an affiliation with Bob Stephenson on the Detective Bureau? Michael: Well, Bob had retired a year, I think. I knew him real well before I got there. Yeah, he was quite a detective. Dan: Now you, ah, mentioned Crandall & Stone, where your first job. What were conditions there? What did— Michael: They made automobile hardware. Dan: Automobile hardware. Michael: Yeah, I finally got a job, that is what they call a promotion there. They have about 2 days a week, or 2 afternoons, rather, where you would, ah, what they call Japan, ah, brass nuts what were on bolt sockets—they had touring cars. You got a cent and a half for doing a gross, on piecework. And as I say you really had to work—the boss was right over you all the time—although I enjoyed it. I used to see how much I could do, but ah, how strict they was at night. The whistle blew and I forgot my cap. There was another young fellow named Griffin that lived near me on Liberty Street, and he was in the packing room, and I used to run out and get him and walk across the tracks home, but forgetting my cap, I had to go back after it and here's this big boss standing there and I'm running on my own time, and he gave me the devil. He says you run here in the morning the same way when the whistle blows. I said if they did that to an employee today, they'd have him locked up. Dan: Now what about Stickley’s? Now they were manufacturing what? Michael: Furniture. Dan: Furniture. Michael: Yeah. Dan: Is that a forerunner of Kroehler’s, now? Michael: No, no, Kroehler’s came later. They were up at Abbott Street. Levinsons bought Stickley’s out, but they later went out of business, and— Dan: What did you do at Stickley’s, Mike? Michael: Well at Stickley’s I thought I’d learn upholstering, but then this job came up, ah, stock clerk, and they asked me if I’d like to take it, and I did, and in no time at all I was superintendent of the finishing department. I was boss over fellows that was working there before I was born, at the age of 19. Dan: But the reason you went on to the Police Department was because of the pension plan— Michael: The pension, yeah. Dan: —and you were appointed in 1917? Michael: Yes, yeah. Dan: Were there Civil Service Exams then? Michael: Oh yes, yeah, yeah. The Commissioners then, I can remember Bennett, Brown, and Barnes—the three B's—and Frank Truitt was Mayor, and, ah some people thought he was narrow-minded, but he was one of the finest fellas that ever was. That Truitt—you know, that Truitt Shoe Company?—a very fine man. In those days, the people that worked officially at City Hall like Councilmen—they were generally businessmen. They didn't do it for the money, they did it for the good of the City, but at one time on the Common Council was Tom Behan, President of the 1900 Washer; Ed Sweet, ah, who with his brother owned Sweet Foundries; Romey Whiting, East End, who owned the feed mill; John Delavan, who operated Titchner Iron Works; Michael Sweeney, who owned half of Davie & Sweeney Laundry; Dr. Maddi. Them type of men, you know, were Councilmen. Dan: Very prominent. Michael: And when you went up there to spend 10¢, you better show them you were going to get 11¢ in return—not like today. Dan: Now you, ah, recall the Overall Factory Fire? Michael: Oh, yes. That happened on my 20th birthday. And, ah, I let the fellas go home early that day. Ah, a fella named Benchley was Treasurer of Stickley & Grant, and he came back at once, told us about the terrible fire downtown. My sister at the time was working at Hull's Cigar Factory—she was what they called a roller, you know, roll the cigars. That was about a block away. She saw some of the poor victims falling from the fire escapes—you know, the blazing, the fire blazing around them. It was horrifying, but I didn't see it ‘til after. You know, when the fire was out. I went down later. Dan: That was located where, Mike? Michael: On Wall Street. Dan: On Wall Street. Michael: Next to the Post Office. Dan: Post Office. Michael: The Post Office was on the corner in those days. It was a terrible thing, happened on my 20th birthday. Dan: You were…let’s see, on the Police Department at the time? Michael: Oh, no. I was a boss in the chair factory. Dan: Oh, you were a boss in the chair factory. Michael: Yeah. And, ah, as I say, I let the fellas go home early,. They wanted to go down because it was something unusual. Yeah, and it was a terrible, warm day. Terrible…I can remember that. Dan: Now you mentioned your sister. Now, which sister worked in that tobacco factory? Michael: My oldest Sister. She's a year older than I am and her name's Conrad. She lives in our old homestead on Liberty Street yet. Dan: On Liberty Street. We're trying to find out as much as we can about the tobacco factory. Were you acquainted at all with her job in the Hull's tobacco factory? Michael: No, that was there at the corner. This was quite a tobacco center in those days. Dan: Oh, it was the tobacco center of the world at one time. Michael: They had General Cigar on Wall Street, they had Hull’s at the corner of Water and Henry, they had Kent’s on Chenango Street—my father worked there, next to where the Greyhound Bus is today—and they, ah, had another one, I can't remember the name, up at the corner of State and Chenango Street, and then on Water Street they had Barnes, that later got the Red Dot Cigar out, and they built an addition or rented a place over on Clinton Street. They did such a business there, but it all seemed to fade away, you know, at once, and also the furniture factories. The only thing left around here, they had Stickley & Grant where I worked, they had Binghamton Chair on the other side of the factories, and they had cine or two small ones down at the end of Carroll Street there, and there’s nothing around today, and as I say, in those days and then EJ had two trains leaving the Erie Depot every morning taking employees to Johnson City and Endicott. They’d make stops on the west side, at Oak Street and Jarvis, and then they'd come back every night at 6 o'clock and they'd park all the railroad cars down near Liberty Street and, ah, jeepers. One night, this same fella that worked over later—the Griffin fellow, we both were selling even newspapers then, and we used to take the EJ train down as far as Liberty Street and walk up to our homes. And there was a train #14 that was late this night, and the kids was fooling around, and he thought he was getting on the EJ train. Gets on and he's laughing away that he got away from the other kids, and they went by Liberty Street, hell bent for election—took him to Susquehanna! and, ah, as I say, EJ at that time was employing around 20 or 25 thousand people, and how those people used to get up early in the morning to be down there and then late at night, and I believe they worked 6 days a week—I worked 6 days a week at Stickley’s. 10 hours a day. Dan: You don't know what year Stickley’s went out of business, do you, Mike? Michael: No, no. I really can't. Dan: But they were furniture manufacturers. Do you suppose Kroehler’s bought them out? Michael: No, no, I remember when Kroehler's came here…and, ah, when they built it. There was, ah, a fellow in charge of the finishing department, you know, came over to see me—I was working at Stickley’s, you know, and I knew him. They were quite an outfit there for a while. ‘Course a lot of things have been improved upon, like at Stickley’s. One thing about Stickley’s, the furniture was 100%—if it was oak, it was 100% oak. It wasn’t veneered. And of course naturally they had to get a price, you know, we couldn't with their costs and their profits, and the other factories’d come out and put a veneer on the front. To the ordinary purchaser, one looked just as good as the other, but one was much cheaper, so that competition got pretty tough—that was the Mission furniture and, ah, the brothers, the Stickley Brothers up in East Syracuse. They were quite an outfit, and then later, ah, Stickley out of there, his son has the Stickley photograph place there on Carroll Street. Dan: That’s still going. Michael: Yeah, yeah. Dan: They moved over, of course, to the Vestal Plaza. Michael: You remember Carl Stickley? Dan: No, no I don't. Michael: He was a cripple or something—I forget what was the matter with him, but he did all right, he certainly did alright. Dan: Mike, if you worked seven days a week, what did you do for recreation? Michael: Oh boy, I’m telling you, you didn’t go out nights running around like they do today, don't you know. What a change, that's what I say, of course, ah, the inventions and everything, they'd make things easier to build and manufacture. Some of these persons I say, a lot of people I talk to, I wish for 6 months that this entire country could be put back to those early days and have them work the way they had to work, save the way they had to save like the other things, and then they would appreciate, you know. Now of course, when I was a kid, I thought the only time they had eggs was at Easter. As I say, if you got up in the morning— [interruption—someone at the door] Dan: You were born, brought up on Pine Street? Michael: I was only a year old when they moved up, ah, on Liberty Street. Dan: Oh, from Pine Street to Liberty Street. Michael: Yeah. Dan: And how was Pine Street in those days? Of course, you were a little young at the time. Michael: They were fairly nice neighborhoods, you know, for ordinary folks like my parents, were immigrants from Ireland, hard working, and one thing I'd like to say—all the people were alike. They were just ordinary people, and someone, once in a while, would have hard times, be out of work or in debt, have you. There was no such thing in those days as relief, and I'm just as sure as I'm sitting here, if there was such a thing as relief, they wouldn't accept it because they'd think it’d be a stigma for the rest of their lives. And in addition, then what they would do, they would take in washings and wash and iron clothes—a large basket for a dollar and a quarter, and there was no electrical appliances then, like electric washers or—it didn't make much difference how much money you had, and they would scrub those clothes on a washboard, and boil them, and then hang them out to dry, and then iron them, and they'd do, as I say, a large basket for a dollar, or a dollar and a quarter. That’s what some of these people should be made to do today, also. Dan: Right. Michael: They could learn the value of the dollar. Dan: That’s right. Now, were there mostly Irish up there on Liberty Street at the time? Michael: Yes. It seems peculiar—like on Pine Street and Henry, there was almost all Irish extraction at one time, and, ah…then the Italians came and they moved in there, and the Irish moved up on Liberty Street. They got along all right, they were all fine people, both the Italians and the Irish, but that’s the way. Then over in the First Ward all the Slavic, Lithuanian and other ethnic groups moved over there, very fine people, and always kept their homes up nice, you know, worked hard, and worked, most of them in the shoe factory, and they made real good citizens. But I don't know, the way things are today, and then there was Jewish people would be down around, ah, Susquehanna Street and South Street. They'd be rag pickers, they'd have a horse and truck going around picking up bones and everything, and some of them men were the fathers of some of the finest lawyers that was ever, you know, in the City of Binghamton. Dan: Sure, sure. Michael: And, ah, there was Jake Smith that I could remember him—he was a fruit peddler and he'd tell the policemen he'd leave his cellar, he'd leave the door open, he says, “If you want something during the night,” he says, “you go down and help yourselves.” About 3 o'clock in the morning sometimes you could go down, get a piece of pineapple and stand at the corner of South Street all by your lonesome nippin’ on it. Oh I'm telling you, believe me, when that Sergeant came around in those days you’d better be there. Dan: Was Charlie Kress in office at the time that you were on the Police Department? Michael: Oh, Charlie Kress, you know, ah, he was a peculiar individual, but he was a very bright fella and he thought at one time that I was giving news to the Scrantonian, which used to write him up once in a while, and, ah, so one time he changed me—I was Assistant Chief then—he put me in from midnight ‘til eight in the morning. He couldn't take me out of circulation entirely. He told Abel he'd have to work from eight ‘til four, and Sheehan from four ‘til midnight. I went looking for him one night when he was Mayor. Had a little Model T Ford in the Police Station then, and the first two times I went around in front of City Hall, I could see him in there, he'd even be in there at night, and there was cars parked, so I couldn't stop and I kept going around the block, and the third time around, it was in darkness and I looked over and I see him walking up the street—no hat, you know—in front of Resnick’s. I pulled up in front of the Courthouse—that Model T, I don't know, somebody knows if it stopped when I got out of it, because I couldn't, and I went over and said, “I want to see you.” Well him and I went at it, he walked away from me, you know, and over to the Courthouse, and me right after him, he finally threw up both hands—says, “Work any hours you want.” And, ah, from that time on, I never had a better friend. Oh, I had a great letter out here, but some way the Chief'd read it, boy could he write a letter. And, ah, one time he was running, and of course some of the politicians didn't like him too well. And, ah, of course the Sun supported him but the Press was against him, and, ah, he put a piece in the Sun one morning—he says if there was a skunk under a porch and you threw the Binghamton Press in there, the skunk would come out. He was a smart cookie, believe me. Dan: Yeah, he was. Michael: And he got more, in my opinion, for every dollar spent out of City employees than any Mayor in my memory, and I remember a lot of them. He had a way about him, and down in Washington, he had friends in both parties. He was really clever. Dan: Now, the Police Department at one time used to wear the uniforms like the Bobbies in England. Michael: You mean with the helmets? Dan: Yeah. Michael: They got rid of them just before I went on. That's one thing I didn't want to wear, that large helmet. Yeah, they just got rid of them just before I went on. But boy, not bragging, maybe with an exception here and there, policemen in those days were real, good, dedicated, and believe me they commanded respect. There was nobody went up to them and said, “Oink, oink,” and got away with it. Dan: That’s very interesting, Mike. Michael: In fact, I got a book here, not in 1925—it was just before I was appointed Sergeant. Get that off for a minute, I just want you— [Michael leaves the room to get a book] Dan: I want to watch this [tape recorder] for a minute, so it won't run down. [tape resumes] Dan: Do you remember Willis Sharpe Kilmer and the Sun Briar Court on— Michael: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Dan: Could you tell me a little about that? Michael: Well, nothing. Only it was quite a place where they bred horses and what have you. And, ah, I know I was on the motorcycle—they invited me down there one day, but ah, yes, I remember when George Ely was the Secretary. Yes I remember Willis Sharpe’s father. He'd come—the Press was printed right up at the corner in the Swamp Root building—and he'd come out of there night, and I'd used to sell papers a penny apiece. You get two for a cent and sell them for a penny apiece. He'd always give you a nickel for the paper, and he could have picked it up right in his office, don't you know. Dan: Right, right. Michael: He was a short fellow, but—Willis was a big strapping fella, but the father was short, and, ah they used to say they got the business away from the father's brother. [Tape #2] Michael: He was supposed to be the one that had the ingredients that went into swamp root, but don't know how the Father got it away but they manufactured up there, but then over in England also, but after a while over in England they made, you know, like you know in advertising, what have you, change their methods, and they finally sold out. I think some outfit that took it up in one of the New England states. But during Prohibition, some people used to drink that instead of the other stuff they used to be able to get. There was some Palmatier fellows, nice fellows, up there around Deforest Street that were bosses there—I remember my sister-in-law worked there. They made a pretty good dollar out of it, you know, when it was going. They used to tell the story, I don't know how true it is, that he was a good friend of mine, too, real good, gave me my first plane ride. I was always scared to death to ride a plane, and, ah, there was a local contractor here named Lawrence Kane, was a friend of mine, he was a friend of this Ralph Sweet and, ah, had Sweet’s plane up there at upper Glenwood Ave. He had that airport, and, ah, he offered me to take a ride and, ah, finally they asked me so much, I was a Captain then, and, ah, I said to Lawrence, I says if he wants to take me up to see my boy at Notre Dame, I'll consider taking a ride, thinking that'll be the end of it. So in a couple of weeks, he calls me and says, “You got a pencil?” I thought he was giving me a riddle or something, and I said, “Yeah.” He says, “Mark this date down: June 26th.” I says, “What about it?” “It's the day you're leaving this earth.” I pretty near left then. “He's taking me out to Notre Dame to see your boy.” Well we told Father Lynch, who was at St. Patrick’s, and, ah, “Gosh,” he says, “I'd like to take a ride.” Well Lawrence says, “I'll see if there'll be room enough,” and they told him yes. He told his mother and his mother put her foot down—no. “Well,” I says, “if I'm up there with a clergyman I'll be all right,” but when his mother said no, I thought sure we were going to come down. So I started out that morning with him—Lawrence picked me up, I didn't even tell my wife—I told her I was just taking a ride with Lawrence Kane. Then I went up to see my mother, Lord have mercy on her, and, ah, she said, “Where are you going so early?” I said, “just take a ride.”  We drove around Front Street and a black cat, and I made him stop the car and turn around–go around another street. So when I got up to the airport, the Sweet airport, all that feeling had left me, and he had his own private pilot. So we get in, he said to me, “We might come down in Cleveland to stretch our legs.” I said, “If we get me up there, stay there until I get out to something,” but after I got up there it got so monotonous, you know, going along, I was glad to come down in Cleveland. So we went out and we met—oh, ah, what’s his name?—Father Connerton, I think, and, ah, he took us around the University and showed it, and that afternoon, in the morning rather, my boy finished his studies for the year, so he asked Ralph, how about bringing him back home? So he asked the pilot if, you know, he'd be too heavy a load or anything. He said no, it'd be all right, so we brought him home with us. We left here around 7 o'clock or 8 o 'clock in the morning—I forget which. I went out there, we had lunch, went around the University, started back around 4 in the afternoon and, ah, left there, brought my son with me, and was to work that night at 7:30. So that was my experience, and Sweet always got a great kick out of, you know, telling of how he gave me my first plane ride. After that I’d have taken off right in the middle of the road out here, you know, the, I overcame that fear. Dan: That was quite an experience, Mike. That Sweet…what business was he in, Mike? Michael: Well he was, he worked in the Shoe factory originally, and I don’t know how he got in there. Several fellows around, they used to—they had medicine of some kind too over there, but I can't tell you what—but they used to tell the story, but I don't know how much truth there's in it. He used to have an ad in the paper—you could advertise anything in those days—says, “Send 10¢ and get a yard of silk.” They'd send ‘em a yard of silk thread. Whether that was true or not, I was never able to find out. But he, he really would, at times his knees was through his trousers when he’s going to work, but he was a millionaire afterwards. Dan: Yeah. Michael: And, ah, I was one of his pallbearers when he died. But he really got a great kick thinking of—oh, and then later he got a plane, was a Beechcraft, and, ah, I think he sold his to the Government. Then later, the wings was falling off some of them. Oh boy, was I scared then. Then he got a new one out, a smaller one, and he called me up one afternoon and he says we might as well go up, and we went around Watkins Glen and then we came down in Ithaca. It snowed or something, I forget now, but that day I got airsick, it was bouncing around like a rubber ball up there. Dan: Now he ended up in what business, was it Swamp Root? Michael: No, no. No, I don't know, I don’t know what he was interested, but he had, he had a lot of money. Dan: Dabbled into a little bit of everything, huh? Michael: I guess so, yeah. Dan: Was it his daughter that married one of the Johnsons? One of the Sweets married a Johnson. Michael: No, no. I'll tell you, where he lived at one time was in that red house on Walnut Street that sets back in with the big fence around there, for years there. And, ah, to tell you the truth, I really don't know exactly, but you know it was lots of businesses like Swamp Root, and didn't advertise anyway like that, but later on, they started tightening up later, but he had a lot of money all right, there was no question about that. Dan: Do you know of any reason why the cigar manufacturers kept dwindling down and eventually went out of business? Michael: I really don't know, I really don't know, unless it was like the General Cigar Factory came here and everything was like things are, like the machines, don't you know. Well you see, they made what they call bunches—that’s the inside of the cigar. It took two of them to keep my sister going. She was real fast—what they call a roller. They rolled, you know, the outside, and it was all done by hand, but the General I understand, you know, more mechanical, and I would imagine like everything else, making things by machines instead of by hand. Dan: Now your sister, Mrs. Conrad you said—where does she live? Michael: She lives in the old homestead, 99 Liberty Street. Dan: 99 Liberty Street. Do you suppose she would mind giving me her experiences in the Cigar Factory? Michael: Oh, no. Dan: You see we have very scant information about—we know about the cigar factories, but not the people that worked in them. 99— [interruption] Michael: Yeah, yeah, 99 Murray. Dan: 99 Murray—that would just be up the street here. Michael: No, 99 Liberty. Dan: Oh, Liberty. Michael: She's 86 years old. Dan: 86. Michael: Now I'm 84; I'll be 85 in July. Dan: Well, you're going strong, Mike; keep that lamp on. Michael: Oh, I got the back separated back there, and it’s, and it’s causing—last year I didn't feel any older than I was when I was 50. Now I feel like 150, and the doctor that operated on me, Dr. Gold, he said, “You're going to make 95.” I said, “Geez, I think he made a mistake.” I think he meant 9:00 that night. Do you know Dr. Gold? He's in with Wescott. Dan: Not personally. I've heard of him. Michael: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Well is there anything else you would like to tell me about the Police Department that sticks out in your mind at all? Michael: Well there's some things I could tell you, but they'd think I'd be bragging though—this isn't on, is it? Dan: This is on, yeah, but as far as bragging is concerned, this is not going to be published—it’s not for publication. Michael: No, no, but they’re different today than—it’s easier to find a law abider today than it is not, to tell you the truth. I get more complaints here than I did when I was working. Believe it or not, I know every move they make. Dan: Yeah, ought to get a police scanner so you can get all their calls. Michael: No, anything that plays, anything on television, I turn, I says, “I seen enough,” that—they tell us about three being in, down, two of us got to be in violation of the rules and regulations. Anyway, when you left the Police Station, you walked in those days, of course, you had to go directly the shortest distance to your post, as fast as possible. Stop in—ah, what’s that place? Woolworth’s—have coffee. I was there, too, when three of them would be on their way home, but especially two would be off their post, even. One of them of course would be working their post about 2 o’clock in the afternoon. They'd see three coming out of the building there on Court Street, where the bus starters have their room. Boy I’m telling ya, they're getting great money today really. Did you ever hear of any of them quitting and getting another job? Dan: No I think they’re starting out at 10 or 11 thousand dollars today, and a very good pension plan after 20 years. Michael: Oh yeah. Without bragging, the best, Sullivan, Gillen, O’Dea—his sister is married to my son. I bet I did more work than the three of them put together. Dan: Yeah. Michael: Sullivan, he sat around newspaper men, what have you—his wife’s more of a man, acts more like one, walks more like one. When in church, he'd be behind her like a little kitten. She’s put him into the pew. Fact, she was designed the uniforms, and after she got through, they threw them out, as I understand, around the locker room over there, ‘cause, like an Eisenhower Jacket. The taxpayers paid for that. When I went on you had to pay for your own uniform, you had it made by a tailor. You had to buy the cloth from the City, and I was the first one that got them a uniform allowance, $50.00. They'd have to grain that uniform, that’s their part, if it’s that’s replaced—into their Assistant Chief, and have them see it, get his permission, go and have it made and come back before he'd send it up there. Now I understand they're getting around $150 in January and $100 in July. I haven’t, I’m going to check up to see it. The taxpayers and the, eventually the renters too, had to pay that time then. Taxes for things like that, now like that. It's terrible, absolutely terrible. Dan: Well, back in the…after the repeal of the 18th Amendment, you used to get quite a few winos. Could you tell me something about when you used to take and, ah, put them up for the night at the Police Station down in the basement—the old Police Station? Michael: Oh they used to, the fellas came in like, ah—”lodgers,” they called them. Take their name down and release them in the morning. The poor fellas would go out and the first thing, they'd be looking for cigarettes and, you know, stubs that was thrown away. I’d have them even stop me in the street when I would be going to the office, you know, extend me for a quarter. Then I'd tell them who I was and some of them would pretty near drop dead. But I’d give the poor devils a quarter, don't you know. Dan: Didn't they have boards downstairs where they could—? Michael: Yeah, they slept on them, yeah, on the boards—even the prisoners slept on boards. Boy, I’m telling ya, and then as I say, not bragging, I'll bet you I got more statements out of more law violators for felonies than anyone in the 42 years that I was working there. Of course I wouldn't get away with it today. Dan: What were some of the principal violations in those days—breaking the law as far as Prohibition was concerned? Michael: Well, no, burglary and things like that, and you know, felonies. You know, if they could outtalk them it was OK, but the minute they started giving me snide remarks… The only time that I really come close to, ah, getting into difficulty—ah, Abe Gold, Dr. Maddi, and myself were like three brothers. Abe was District Attorney at the time, but they got a call one night over on the south side, and, ah I don't know whether it was a drugstore or what was being burglarized. When they caught the young fella, 24 years old, and, ah they brought him in to talk to me to question, to try to get a statement out of him. Finally he turned his rear end to me, then I got up and turned him around and I forgot my ring, and gee, I cut him over the eye here and couldn't take him to court for three days. Took him over to the hospital there. Dan: [laughs] Michael: When he got there, Richardson was the judge, and you know his southern accent. He says, “What happened to you?” Given his due, he says, “I was chopping wood and a piece came up and hit me,” but when he went home, he told his mother the true story, so she goes to the District Attorney. Abe says to her, “You’re lucky your son is not on his way to Attica.” So she was satisfied then, but that's the closest I’ve ever come. But you bet your life they generally signed faster, you give them, as I say, you couldn't get away with it today. Like some of these decisions—and they're split decisions too, 5 to 4—the Supreme Court made a short time ago. There was two officers went after a fellow in a neighboring state where they picked him up, and, ah he had killed a young girl, and on the way back, they were very nice to him, but they didn’t tell him that he didn’t have to say nothing unless he had a lawyer and all that. and, ah I’ll be darned, a 6 to 5 decision—I think it was that they threw the statement out, you know. I was going to write ‘em that time, but I didn't. I was going to say if I was in charge of a Police Department in the district where you're living, I'd leave orders there, if you or any member of your family called up and said that you were being attacked by these thugs, to tell you that we’re were busy and to take care of it yourself—making heroes out of them and that Kuntsler, that lawyer. Dan: You mean of the American Civil Liberties Union? Michael: Yeah, boy. I don't mind giving a person a break or two breaks, you know, if they’re entitled to it or something like that, but some of those thugs that’s out there that’s— Dan: Well they're protected, you know, with the Miranda. Michael: Well, they kind of doctored up that decision now, you know, it’s not as strict as, you know, just because they didn’t rap on the door or something. Dan: Yeah. Michael: They're sitting on the old perches out there, up there. They're not out there taking, you know, this stuff from these thugs. Dan: You were on the force when George Weslar was killed, weren’t you? Michael: Yes, yeah, I was acting Chief that time. Charlie Kress was Mayor. They called me here, ah, and went over there on Water Street, and I think that was the first time we ever used gas, and poor George, he was, he wasn't working, but this fella, I don’t know, was having trouble with his wife or something, but anyway, so George goes over and goes to go up the steps, and he was up there with a shotgun—killed him. Some other fella that was going with him, and he killed him too. Dan: That boy was going to school with me, I forget his name right now—he was from St. Mary’s. Michael: Is that so? And anyway, they called me over there, and finally Joe Varsick, the detective, you know, we shot the gas up in there so we figured, well, can’t be that he was escaping then because wasn't getting any response or from out back. Charlie even climbed the pole out there, Charlie Kress, and Varsick went up and he shot himself—the fellow, you know. Dan: Committed suicide? Michael: Yeah, yeah. But there was enough gas up there that he had been immobile, anyway. Yeah, I can remember that right well. Oh, there’s probably a lot of other places, but they don't come to my mind fresh now but ah, I see once in a while they put in the paper something I can never remember. They said, ah, Captain Abel and Sergeant Hanifin, how they raided a disorderly house on Court Street—I can never remember a thing about it, said later we both became Chiefs, you know, like that. Another time they had up there about me chasing kids off the ice near Rogan’s Mill up there, tell them if I catch them out again they'd go to jail. I couldn't remember it at all, didn't you know. You know, a lot of interesting things if a person could remember them. Dan: WelI remember the Chapman Hotel. They used to call 11 or 12 o'clock Mass down there—that used to be a scream, ‘course they'd be going down there. Michael: Yeomans—that’s how they appointed Casey, to tell you the truth. In those days they thought that they was—I have no definite proof, you know, of any acts of these—they used to call the little Brothers. But if you was a Catholic, you know, and Yeomans was Commissioner, see. Dan: Commissioner of what? Michael: Of safety. So ah, he ah, we had an examination in those days, they'd detail you to a job and they'd give you an allow for experience but they don't allow you today, or go in there either. So Casey got so many points on the examination for experience. “Oh,” he says, “so I am going to take it anyway.” I beat him by 5 points, even with his number first, so Helen Brick—do you remember her? Dan: No. Michael: Lived on Pine Street, she was a Commissioner's Secretary, and I'm on a motorcycle and I dropped in the office early on a Monday morning, and Kress didn't like me much—he had quite a piece. He got the tipoff on a Saturday’s paper that Yeomans was out of town, trying to put him in the middle. I knew Casey’d get it, even if he was, he had the right to appoint the first three anyway, and he told him about the civil service commission found me to be the best qualified and all this—a lot of blarney, not so much for me, just a lot of politics. So I came in on the motorcycle at half past nine Monday morning and Helen Brick walked down the hall to the main office. She says, “Congratulations.” I says, “Yeah, that’s all the good it'd do me.” She says, “Oh, he didn't appoint him already did he?” That’s what burned me up. I come over here and I never felt anything, but Dr. Day had me come in—my stomach was upset and he cured it, you know, upset stomach. I came over here and got a little drink, stick of gum in my mouth, back I'd go and I go into his office, and he says, “Mike, I was going to send for you,” and I says, “I came in to see about that job that I know the appointment was made upstairs.” Now he says, “I haven't got a thing against you, Mike.” ‘Course there was two or three made, well I always promised Frank that I would make him a detective and, ah I promised him, you know, he was a great one. [interruption] Michael: Before I got off these places, he was a death on boozer’s driving. Had me in front of Chapman's on Henry Street to make arrests if they had signs out, but never arrested anybody. They took me out of there and put me up to the Arlington Hotel and put Casey down there, you know, so to patrol something. Said to him, “Now, Commissioner, you tell me if it’s anything I've done, and I'll try to correct it—if you tell me if it’s anything I'm doing, it’s wrong and I'll stop it, but if it’s my religion, I'm doing nothing.” He says, “Here, here, here, and, ah so ah, you knew that,” says there'll be other examinations. I says, “You can't expect me to be passing first,” and it was, generally in those days there wouldn't be an exam. The guys would stick in there ‘til they dropped dead, you know, the old fellows, and, ah Kelly, this Sergeant, you'll see his picture in there, he was just able to shuffle along, you know—wouldn't have an examination. So I took it, and, ah Tommy Broughton was working in front of the Courthouse there, corner Chenango and Court traffic, when I'd go by in a motorcycle—stopped me one day. John McDonald, don't know whether you knew him or not, he was President of the Civil Service, and, ah he's got a kid that’s a lawyer with IBM, I guess he's down in Washington. One of his sons now is City Assessor. Dan: Oh, I know him. That McDonald, yeah. Michael: and, ah so ah, Ralph New, he was with McTighe’s grocers—the founder—and he stopped me, wanted to know if the papers been marked. ‘Course he took it too, so ah, yeah, said they're marked, but he wouldn't tell him who was ahead. He says it’s a smart redhead, he says was ahead. That’s all he told him, so Tommy stopped me, I said—of course his brother's hair was pure red, but my head was, you know, was never red—got a blond in it. I says, he says, “By God I think you're the one that’s on top,” and l sure enough I was. Jeepers, I got an old paper up there somewheres, you know there’s so much discussion about the thing right across the Sun, used to get out the Bulldog at night. Big headlines across: “Hanifin Sergeant.” You'd think I was President of the United States. Dan: The Bulldog was out on Saturday nights, wasn't it? Michael: Oh, every night. Dan: Oh, every night—a Special. Michael: Yeah, and I made him talk so much that day. I never, with my right hand up, I don't believe theres another one in the Police Department could say they never asked a politician or anybody to intercede for me in any way for any job. I knew they did, but not by asking them for me. They did it on their own or somebody else asking for them—I don't know, and, ah as I say, every examination I took, I passed first. Sergeant—first was Detective, Sergeant, Lieutenant, and Captain. Dan: When did they first introduce motorcycles in the beginning when you first went on the force? Michael: I think they were there before, I couldn't tell you, but they used to have horses when I was a kid. Had three horses, and, ah Lewis, Bucky Lewis was a cop then, Hillegas, and God I can't think of the other one. In fact, there was a murder up on Liberty Street one day, they was a couple of Italians, he was a nice fellow too, I often wondered, everybody thinks, it might have been named Maggio because he left here, he went out. I think that was his name, and he lived down near the Patch Pond, what they called it. There was a block there near Liberty Street, you go down the hill and there’s a little house down back, and he lived there and he worked on the railroad. But he had an argument with another Italian, and the Italian kept following him up to get rid of the party. He kept telling him to go back, and he showed him the gun—he had it, and the Roundhouse was there at Liberty Street near Eldridge, and just as they got there, he turned around and let him have it. Killed the guy. Up he comes and he’s coming up the street on a Sunday afternoon. The kid that lived in the neighborhood with me—I was 12 years old—his name was Dow, and there was a cemetery there on the corner of Eldridge and Liberty and it took in all of Wales Avenue all through there, and we run up in the cemetery when we see him coming up the street. It was a hot one. Pretty soon them mounted cops come, they drove the horses down the hill in to that house, but the guy was a nice citizen, you know, as far as that was concerned, but he got out of it. They didn't convict him, and when he left here shortly afterwards, he went to California. Lot of people thinks, you know, maybe he was one of Maggios or offspring from out there but I don't know, and that cemetery, we used to go down there as kids, pick coal along the tracks—people were poor in those days, you know. And there was an icehouse down there, and they used to cut, jug cut the ice in a patch pond, and they'd be taking the big cakes out and some pieces would fall, you'd put in your little cart and take ‘em home, and as I said before, there was no electric refrigerators. The rich people had to buy ice the same as the poor, but we only had those little chunks to put in ours, and the kids would pick up bones and sell them to the rag pickers. Oh, but the way things are today, why those people, as I, without being repetitious, I do not believe that anybody that lived on Liberty Street those are, if there was such a thing, which there wasn't in those days, as relief, that they would accept it. They'd think it would be a stigma the the rest of their lives, but today those people knock you out of the way up the stores coming out them, having a cab outside to come home in. So there is no incentive to work and save today, and if you do work and save then the government wants to take the money away in taxes. I just got a nice dividend from General Motors and I had to give $600 to the Government. They declared a nice fat dividend this year. Dan: Taxes amounted to 600 dollars? Michael: Yeah, they, years ago I had 200 shares, and God, I had to sell it, coming down. They kept calling me over to Baches and I finally had to sell 100 at a loss, and it went down, was only 100 I had left. I borrowed money off Mike Reardon, my brother-in-law, my mother, Lord have mercy on her, to keep that 100 I had left. I was in the hospital with a broken hip, was the only thing that made me feel good. It had split 2 for 1 before that and later, for every 20 you had, you could buy a share for $75, so I bought 10 shares which I was entitled for $750, and at that time it was selling for $94 so had 220 later, it split 3 for 1. No, 210 I had, split 3 for 1, so then I had 630 and I still held on to it. I'd have 1260 if I didn't have to sell that other. This past year, last year they paid 85 cents and they only made a nickel a share—they cut it down to 60 in one of the quarters, but the end of this year, they gave a dollar, which was 630 for regular dividend, two and a quarter extra. I got a check the other day for $2047.50. Dan: Wonderful, wonderful. Michael: Took me out of the red. Dan: How long have you lived here, Mike? Michael: Oh, I've lived here since I was married. I only lived in the three places—where I was born on Pine Street, on Liberty, and then over here, and when George was District Attorney, he was the one got me to buy this place. Dan: Dad was Assistant District Attorney. Michael: Assistant, yeah, and do you know what I paid down on this? $1300, and I gave, was it fifteen something? Dan: Now you say, Mike, you paid $1300 down on this. Michael: Yeah, and, ah the Binghamton Savings Bank had the mortgage five something, and then when ah Andrews was Commissioner, he liked me, you know, even to Frank Newell it take it over for five, and they they want to reduce the Savings Bank at that time, but he made arrangements with Newell to take it over, and, ah of course I paid it off some time ago, but I don't get within $30 or $40 of what I should be getting. ‘Course I get a break on the Veterans, but I should, like $135 is the highest I get here. About three years ago my gas used to cost me $800 a year, now they want $1848 to get it on the budget. Dan: ‘Course, the higher you put the rents, the more turnover you're going to get. Michael: Well that’s it, but you know at one time I had 5 widows, only one of them, your pardon, and the two of us—seven. Now there's, they're up there, and she has a lady taking care of her there and a man up on the top floor, he’s pretty good, used to take care of the apartments somewheres—he does a lot of work around here. Dan: Well, Mike, I certainly appreciate your taking your time. I’ll play this tape back for you if you'd like to hear it. I'd like to ask you one more question. You mentioned about a cemetery on the corner of Eldridge and Liberty—what ever happened to it? You were twelve years old at the time. Michael: Yeah, they dug the graves up, and a fellow named Lloyd, he lived on Liberty Street, old Lloyd had two sons—I forget their names now—and, ah when I was going to school at Robinson Street and I used to stand around. Some they only get a few bones out of there—everything had deteriorated and gone, you know what I mean, even the box. Dan: Do you know where they moved it to? Michael: Yeah, over to Spring Forest. Dan: Oh, Spring Forest. Michael: Yeah, they took everything out of there, and my uncle bought a lot at the corner of Liberty, and my father…Lord have mercy on both of them. My father bought a lot there, where the Bus company later had built a garage, and my uncle, he was ah, he was…ah, Jack Hanifin, they used to call him. There was three brothers, Mike lived on Henry Street—I was named after him—he was a grandfather to the Fire Chief that got drowned, and, ah he got wind they was interested in the garage, and he comes up and buys my father's lot off him, you see. And there was a murderer, I forget his name now, that was buried in the part where it was, up in the area where my uncle owned. Of course when they dug it down even with Liberty Street and all that dirt, but there was a murderer buried there, and, ah as I say, they made Water Ave and sold the lots out. There was only one row of houses on Robinson Street, and then there was two or three on Emmett, then all the rest of that area was cemetery. We'd go up there, as I say, and see it in little boxes, they put whatever they got in and then they took them over and buried them in Spring Forest. Dan: Right. A common grave, then? Michael: Yeah. Dan: I think over in Spring Forest is where all of the victims of the fire in the overall factory are. Michael: Yeah, they had services over at the Stone Opera House on a Sunday. Unidentified, don’t you know, after that fire. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael J. Hanifin Subject The topic of the resource Hanifin, Michael J. -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Police -- Interviews; Cigar industry; Prohibition; Endicott-Johnson Corporation; Willis Sharpe Kilmer; Binghamton City Mayor; Charles Kress; Stickley Furniture; Crandall, Stone & Co. Description An account of the resource Michael J. Hanifin talks about his upbringing, neighborhood he lived in while growing up in Binghamton, local businesses, cigar industries, and Endicott Johnson Corporation. He worked at Stickley Furniture and Crandall, Stone & Co., before applying to join the City of Binghamton Police Department. He worked as a patrolman, Sergeant, Captain, Assistant Chief, and in 1942 became the Police Chief. He describes his experience working through the ranks in the police force. He discusses important arrests and cases that were particularly memorable to him. He mentions notable people such as Willis Sharpe Kilmer and Binghamton City Mayor, Charles Kress. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 31A; Recording 31B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hanifin, Michael J. ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-13 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 45:25 Minutes ; 40:27 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/c4e1b2f45a3538a0a3df2c8127d6b867.mp3 cfb3d3213cf049b88dfaa6613f77705d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Harendza, Michael Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna ; O'Neil, Dan Date of Interview 1977-12-15 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 48:03 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55941">Interview with Michael Harendza</a> Subject LCSH Harendza, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Musicians -- Interviews; Organists; Slovak Americans Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Michael L. Harendza Interviewed by: Anna Caganek and Dan O’Neil Date of interview: 15 December 1977 Anna: This is Anna Caganek: the interviewer. I am talking to Professor Michael L. Harendza. 69 Colfax Ave, Binghamton, New York. The date is December 15, 1977. Uh, Professor? Tell me about your life and experiences in the community. Professor Harendza: Well, my mother brought me here from, ehm, Austria. It’s now Czechoslovakia. The name of the town that I was born in was, uh…Storcin [Stojčín]. S-T-O-R-C-I-N. Storcin. It’s in the northwestern part of Czechoslovakia, in the small Carpathian Mountains. My father died—he traveled extensively, he came to America about four times. He traveled to South America. And, uh, he came back home, and my mother got pregnant again. And I popped out. [chuckles] I was born on June 29, 1901. My father died, so we buried him. And we stayed there. I had an older sister: Rose Harendza. She came to America—I don’t know how, I don’t know what year, around 1904 I think—and she married John Kukol and they had twelve children, they kept on coming. Then we came, and I shall never forget, I was very happy on that boat. Mother said we naturally got bad steerage, they couldn't afford to get us a better class ticket and—but I got acquainted with the Captain and the attendants on the boat. They let me run around, and I always had a feeling then that I had a good voice. I would sing Hungarian folk songs and Slovak folk songs. And I would get a lot of loose change—I brought home that and I gave it to my mother. They also gave me a lot of fruit, which Mother appreciated very much, because being down in that steerage, as a matter of fact she was sick all the while. It took us two weeks to cross from Hamburg, we went on this boat [for] two weeks. We arrived in Ellis Island sometime in the early part of November, and we had to go through all the various requirements—shots and medicine, everything else. And then good physical procedure to see that you were alright, and so they let me pass. Mother was sick all the while. And then they took the address and put a tag on my mother, and a tag on me: Binghamton, New York. [laughs] And they brought us down here, and the train arrived at about 5 o’clock in the morning, and my brother-in-law John Kukol met us there, and we couldn't get a taxi or anything, so we had to trudge all the way from the old station down to the other folks there. We stayed around—our first Christmas and first Thanksgiving was that year here, as far as I know now—not too much, rather hazy, because I was just past five years old—and I did things a boy would do. [chuckles] Anna: My bad habit— Michael: As I said, when I got to the school, then they—in January I went to the Jarvis Street School, there is an office building now. I went there and I’ll never forget Miss Perkins, the first grade, I went, and, ah, Miss Stone—a saintly woman, a wonderful woman, she did an awful lot for the Slovak people of this neighborhood and Slovaks in general. I got in a little jam one time, my mother had to come down to prove something. Well it wasn’t so, I just tried to get away from being punished after school, and she brought an interpreter with her—I never thought Mother would be that fussy—and so Miss Perkins and I and my mother and Helen Takac and Miss Stone. I lost a pair of shoes, and she knew—they cost a lot of money, these shoes—and she knew the other children going to school without shoes—I didn’t see why I shouldn’t go, they were clumsy on me anyway. So I used to take them off and then hop to the corner house on Grace and Jarvis—remember, Anna, where Connie lives now? There were some people there, a place where I could put my shoes during school, and you know I got away with it for quite a while, but when I—one time, when I came from school for my shoes, they weren't there, somebody stole them. And so naturally Miss Stone and they wanted to know everything, in the school, and Mother wanted to know too, because two or three dollars was an awful lot of money to her—she had to work in Dunn McCarthy almost a week for it, for it. Of course I tried to earn some a little bit later, sold papers and things to help out every possible way. She went along and somehow—I took—found out they didn't steal my shoes, because my, I put my shoes in there, and—they did steal them, but it was really my fault for leaving my shoes there. And also after I got the whole interview through, she came from Miss Stone. [Imitating his mother] “Please, give me stick.” You know, like a little pussy willow. Wooo! I got a good royal licking. She said, “Michael”—in Slovak, she said to me, “I'm not punishing you for the shoes—they’re lost, they’re lost—but the shame that you gave me, that I had to come here to this good woman and show my son was a liar.” I shall never forget that, and when she went and left Miss Stone took me upstairs to her office. “Michael,” she says, “you have a very, very wonderful mother.” Imagine it, five years—fingers stay on my head all the while. She said, “I don’t have to worry about you because you will make your way in the world all right.” I shall never forget, they were always so nice to me, everybody. And I went through—when I got to the 5th grade, St. Cyril School was built and they opened up in 19—it was built in 1910, but they couldn't get any Slovak Sisters to teach there, so they rented out to St. Patrick’s, and they used it for high school for girls there for about two years, and then in 1912 got four Sisters from Danville, Sisters of St. Cyril & Method. And from there I went to the 5th grade—6th, 7th, 8th grade I put in there, and everything went very nicely. And in the summer I would get a job somewhere else—remember Deyo Farms? I would go there picking cherries and strawberries, and weeding, you know, earn a little extra money, because naturally, poor Mom couldn't go alone and do everything. She gave me everything, l never had to be ashamed about my dress or anything. Imagine—I was the only one that used to wear shoes, and that’s why the shoe subject was such an important thing. And l went to St. Cyril’s School, and l stayed there until l graduated in 1916, from the 8th grade. Then l went down to St. Patrick’s, the high school there, and did my regular work. l took care of the paper route in the summer, in summer the Press, and in the morning I would get up early enough to go and pick up the Herald—remember the old paper? I’d be around the corner there, so—and we got along pretty good. My brother was a very fine [inaudible], like on the wall, like on the— Anna: Plastic— Michael: Plastic. And he was very good to us, especially to mother, and I know l got my first shoes from him, and he was good to me. We stayed up to my sister’s—she was very nice too—I roomed with my brother, and she had her own. And then he had to go to Albany, they had a big hotel or something. ‘Cause he was flying to meet—he took me to hear Paderewski in the old high school. Anna: What? Michael: Paderewski—the pianist, Ignacy Jan Paderewski, the world’s greatest pianist. And that was my first contact with coaching. They took me over to the State Armory over there, John McCormick sang—an enormous amount of people came, they got across to that old State Armory, where the Forum is now, that old big State Armory. l was just as big a rascal as anybody, let me tell you that l was no angel but l didn’t know better things, and then l went to high school, and l went for two years, after that Mother got very sick. After that l got work in Dunn McCarthy's as office boy, taking the cripples around the room and and later on got 15 dollars a week, then got 20 dollars a week, which could carry us on very nicely, and l worked there and kept on singing. Then we had a little money and l asked mother if I could go and study voice, I had a lot, l had two years of piano with Katherine O’Brian—you remember her—she used to give piano lessons by the Post Office. Bill Danek and a few others took piano lessons, l had two years of piano, and when I was working and had a little money I went to see Cecil Masten. Cecil was an awful good teacher, he was a very fine baritone and he used to do a lot of State work. He was on the corner of Main St. and Crestmont Rd., and it went along pretty good and, but my brother again went out and we didn't have too much of an income, and she got sick so I had to quit school. I was already 17, and I would sing in different choirs every time I got a chance to get in some hotel or something, I would get 4 or 5 dollars Saturday & Friday but we, I didn't know other things, so I continued my piano and after a while—St. Joseph Rangers were still here, and Miss Katherine Vinceyas, she was the organist. She had to have an operation on her appendix and she had to be out quite a while, so Father Scripo called Father Casmir, said, “Michael, you can play while she is out. Take over the job while she is out.” And that would give me 25 dollars a month, but that was pin money for me because I had my regular job. I went on and on, and after a while I was playing there on one second Easter, I was playing. And then they tore down the old church and built another one, and it wasn't painted or anything, and they had a mobile organ there, I was singing there and then Father Martincek—remember him? He left, and the Franciscan Fathers came to Father Cyril and Father Florian Billy, and I sang once in a while, but I sang in a little church which was Lithuanian, made a little money there, so I did this and Easter 8 o’clock mass, I played and sang in Lithuanian. I was very active in Languages, I sang, Father Scripo came from the altar, so Father Cyril was going to have the next mass, each had one mass because a lot of people in St. Cyril, Glenwood Ave., our Parish extended to Stella Ireland Road. He said to Father Cyril, “Who is that boy? He has a good voice, plays nice too but very good.” I went home and he shot right up to my house, which was right up the hill, and wanted to know why I didn't go to St. Cyril’s. I said, “Well, Father, they pay me and every penny counts, cost money, I like to study and it costs money, voice lessons and piano lessons. Father send Father Billy to ask me to take the job, then I said, “I know what, I’ll play for three months during the summer, I'll play and be an organist when school starts, 30 dollars a week.” The organist said he will pay the most, 75 dollars a month, 5 dollars for funerals, 3 dollars for weddings and 1 dollar Requiem mass—getting 75 dollars, that would bring the total to 150 dollars a month. All summer long I played, then when school started, I said to Father, “I got my old job in the factory, I was sample operator in the office, I was my own boss, I had to do them, nobody else could do them but me. That’s when I was making 35 to 40 dollars a week then,” I told them. “$75 a month,” Father Florian said. “How about it, Mike?” he said, “We will give you the job,” and on New Year’s Day $75 a week, 75 dollars. All the while I got active in the chamber of the concert staff, singing of concerts Dan: You said you studied under Cycil Masten, but you also heard Ignacy Paderewsky? Michael: Paderewsky, yeah. And also John McCormick, and also Anna Pavlova, and also the New York Philharmonic, Dr. Walter conducting. I took them all in, I took them water as favors, and I saw one thing, I would have to advance my education if I will get anywhere, and also keep on studying with Cecil Masten. I would take a lesson, once in a while, then Dr. Harold M. Neiber, organist in Christ Episcopal Church years ago—well anyway, he was the organist there, so I studied first organ with him, then I studied piano. Then he got a good job in New York, in a cathedral. I went to—Francis— [pause] He lived on, Saint, St. Mary’s Church—after 30 years I can’t think of his name. He lived on—what’s that street, on the corner of Main, where that church, that St. Mary’s church is? Dan: Fayette. Michael: Fayette. On the third house down. He had two daughters that were teachers. Dan: It wouldn’t be O’Brian, would it? Michael: No, no. I know Mr. O’Brian. Dan: He had two daughters. Michael: Yeah. Well he taught piano and his daughters [inaudible]. Well I went and studied with him, piano. I had two years with Dr. Harold Neiber, and then I had four years with—mmmmm—Francis? Frank? He was a very famous man in the ward. Right in your territory. [laughs] Dan: Right in my territory and I can’t remember it. It was probably before my time. Michael: No, that was about 1927. Dan: I was pretty young then. Michael: Francis, Francis. Dan: I remember Casey. Michael: Casey, he was an organist at St. Mary's Church, and he took Francis’s place, then he played in Endicott in St. Andrew’s, and Mr. Johnson paid for it. Well anyway I studied with him. And then— Mrs. Harendza: Mr. O’Connor. Michael: Francis O'Connor. [laughs] Thank you, Mama, very much. You best see him, you probably know more about it than I do. Then summer came along, I told Father Cyril, “I am going, Father. I am going to be an organist.” Sacred Heart in Manhattan. I’d spent four years and five summers—all summer courses—I came twice for my examination to get my certification, my license. And we got along very nice, [inaudible], I specialized in that. We got along fine, I was able to do a lot of nice things, we organized a nice choir at St. Cyril’s. We had, ah—I can show you all kinds of pictures, where are they? I continued working. I joined the American Field of Organists, and I was 16 in 1933 to 1936, we put on several concerts. We also, on Civic Music, over for the Board at the Chamber of Commerce. [inaudible] So we all worked together. There were very nice women there, and so I went. [inaudible] And ever since then I have been very active, even to this day [inaudible] and I tell Helen, I said, “Helen, I'm not working and I’m not doing anything or teaching.” I said, “They gave me my bread and butter, and they made me the man that I am, and I got a good reputation.” I think you know that. Dan: I do. Michael: I don’t have to tell them. I always admire the Opera—the Tri-Opera Chorus and Symphony, the Ballet at Roberson I love, and also all the cultural things, I like them, they seem to do things for me. I went there for three summers, I got my supervisor thing down for three years, twice each, time down in St. Cyril’s, then I am going up in June ‘til the end of August. I took my examination and I got my first certificate, which was for teaching from 1st to the 5th grade, and I earned the 2nd year certificate, from 6th to 9th grade. That’s as far as I am going, because I didn't go to high school much. Dan: Where did you get these Certificates from? Michael: Pius X school in Manhattanville and Pius X . ‘Course we know these colleges, they know these schools, and this was connected with Manhattanville College in New York. This was Catholic, down all from Rome, and later on could earn [inaudible]. That was, I kept on working right along. Gave concerts, gave numerous concerts. I was active. [inaudible] And now that I am 76 years old I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, but I still, as you can see how my hands are, but I still, every Sunday at 7:30 I play the mass—by the altar I got a little Conn organ—and I sing with the people. The old Slovak hymns. And they sing and I love it. Dan: Where is this? Michael: St. Cyril’s, even now. Then Monday and Tuesday we have Novena's, and I play the 12 o’clock mass, and then we have the Novena's for Blessed Virgin Mary. Tuesday I play the 12 o’clock mass and Novena to St. Anthony. That’s the amount of work I do now, but before— Mrs. Harendza: You play the funerals, too. Michael: Huh? Mrs. Harendza: You play the funerals. Michael: [inaudible] Can you think of anything else? Anna: What do you think of the changes in the church? That’s what I wanted to ask you. Michael: The changes…well, I’ve been brought up on the very, very strict rules. If I dared and played the songs that we are singing now, I'd be excommunicated, but now it’s perfectly all right. What they want, the Church wants them to participate, [inaudible]. In some churches the Priest goes up and down, and that way they all do a little bit of it, but I got a good strong voice. [inaudible] I don’t agree to a lot of things on that score, because I am a Gregorian chant man all the way, and to me there's no music more beautiful than Gregorian chant. And these hymns—some of these Hymns are very beautiful, and I enjoy playing them, and these people never heard of—they’re practically all taken from the Methodist Hymnal, and all through the Presbyterian Hymnal and the Lutheran Hymnal. [inaudible] Dan: At what age did you come over, did you immigrate, Professor? What age? Michael: 5 years old. June 29th 1901, and 1907 we came. Dan: And now do you carry the ethnic customs in everyday life that you brought over from the native land? Michael: Yes, I think so. The younger generation, they don’t—there is no question of that—but where the family is…and they think of their past heritage, what they had in Europe…you can’t take that out of them. Dan: No. Michael: Any more than we could take the Irish out of you. Dan: That’s right, that’s right. Michael: And we feel the same way. And that is the reason that I’m playing there yet. You can’t get anybody that can sing and play the Slovak languages at the same time. Dan: Right, right. Michael: That’s about the only reason. I love my work very, very much. Dan: Well, I’m glad that you are keeping active. Anna: You still go to the old customs of Christmas and everything? Michael: Yes, [inaudible]. And my daughter, she teaches in MacArthur School, and she graduated from Marywood. Her Bachelor’s Degree, and her Masters Degree was from Ithaca College. She teaches 7th and 8th grade in MacArthur School, and Michael, my son, he is studying in Catholic University. Here is his picture when he was in the Navy—pianist for the Navy, and accompanist, and also a concertmaster. So he's got his B.A. in—the, ah, Catholic University. He got his Masters in Composition, and now he is working for his Doctorate. But he’s got— Mrs. Harendza: Perpetual student Michael: He’s got maybe one or two visitations left, and maybe one or two concerts. [pause] Well, I told you. Well I got a couple of nice sins I have [laughs], and I won’t admit that to nobody. Dan: We are not in a position to forgive you those, so you better tell those to a priest. [laughs] Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to add? Michael: Did I cover the ground pretty good? Dan: Very, very good. What ethnic customs do you carry on in your everyday life, Professor, you still carry on in your life? Anna: Yeah. Mrs. Harendza: Well, like Christmas Eve, and things like that. Michael: We have the traditions. Anna: You still go for the old tradition over the, ah— Michael: We have the old tradition. We say our Grace in Slovak for each meal, and—naturally, being here so long already, they are more Americanized. They haven’t the love of the past that I have, because I was born there, and that’s why I am so loyal to that. But I want you to know that the people of St. Cyril’s treated me wonderful. They gave me a chance. Now I had the chance to go to St. Patrick’s as organist, and several other good prominent churches, but I couldn't—Father said, “You would get three times as much as I give you.” “Father, when I was as green as green could be, you accepted me, the Franciscan Fathers accepted me, and our Slovak people accepted me also,” because I had a good voice and I was able to sing anything. I said, “Now that I got my credentials, I could go flying wherever I want.” Anna: Professor, you know what I wanted to tell you. When I told somebody that I am going to interview you, they said, “Please tell the professor that there'll never be another one like him.” Michael: Well, you see— Anna: That’s right—I agree. Michael: [inaudible] Mrs. Harendza: Yeah, but you don’t really meet that kind of organist these days. Dan: No you don’t. Not one that is dedicated, that—you got fine memories. Michael: We used to have five hundred children in the school, they would march in every morning to the school—you’ve seen them, Anna. Anna: Yeah. Michael: [inaudible] We had those big masses, you know, and they’d get all the schools together, and I was the district manager and director. [inaudible/crosstalk] This would happen once every month. Anna: Thank you, Professor Harendza. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Michael Harendza Subject The topic of the resource Harendza, Michael -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Immigrants -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Musicians -- Interviews; Organists; Slovak Americans Description An account of the resource Michael Harendza talks about his family's emigration from Storocin, Czechoslovakia and the conditions of the boat they took from Hamburg to Ellis Island and then their experience after arriving in America. They were placed in Binghamton, NY where he and his family learned to make do with little money. He talks about his first piano teacher, Cecil Masten, dropping out of school to take care of his mother, and singing in choirs and playing the organ to make money. He discusses his continued training as an organist and the variety of church jobs he held, as well as, concerts he participated in and the students he taught music to. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 32 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Harendza, Michael ; Caganek, Anna ; O'Neil, Dan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-15 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 48:03 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/1aeb294c91bee71a0ca670da812d0913.mp3 afae3c031339f9f4a3ca708a4be26075 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hladik, Elizabeth Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caganek, Anna Date of Interview 1978-02-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:59 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55944">Interview with Elizabeth Hladik</a> Subject LCSH Hladik, Elizabeth -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cigar industry Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Elizabeth Hladik Interviewed by: Anna Caganek Date of interview: 27 February 1978 Anna: I am Anna Caganek: the interviewer. I am talking to Betty Hladik. 24 Isabel Street, Binghamton, New York. The date is February 27, 1978. Elizabeth: Take your boots off. Anna: Tell me, tell me about your experiences. Elizabeth: Yes. Anna: Uh, Betty…in the community. Elizabeth: Okay, is it here? Is it started? I don’t know. I’m Elizabeth Hladik. Eh, born in 1910 of immigrant parents, Frank and Mary Konecny. They came here from Gbely, Czechoslovakia, in 1904 to Ellis Island in America, bought a home on Berlin Street in the First Ward and lived, uh…let’s see, lived there all their lives. They bought it for $2400 in 1912. And I lived there most of my life…ah, ha-married, had two children and two grandchildren. My father at 15 [years] was an apprentice to a shoe cobbler, and lived in Vienna two years. So he naturally went to Endicott-Johnson area here to find work after trying out in the coal mines in Lansford, Pennsylvania, he decided he wouldn't spend his life underground even if the pay was higher. He was content with making shoes and raising a family of six children. Yeah. He inspired me to do domestic work for good families, which he claimed would be more rewarding than to take a homemaking course in high school. I never went to school higher than the 8th grade, and I was quite content, but at times frustrated. The pay wasn't ideal at the time. At least I got around and got an insight of how people of worth live. Why did you have that around? Oh, I see. So at least I got around. At 15 and a half, I started as a domestic with Mrs. Murray, 206 Main Street in Binghamton. She was the widow of an Admiral, and she entertained elegantly, having a Swedish cook, and I learned a lot early in life. Also worked for the Chamberlains of Lathrop Avenue—he was an editor of Binghamton Press—and the Gails—butter and egg people, and meat. Then a Mr. Clement Bowers, dad who was an inventor, lived on Main Street—I worked for them. Mrs. Daniel Dickinson of South Mountain—her husband was an ambassador of United States to Turkey. Then for a while I worked for a Mrs Frank Harris, he was in the extract business and also the 5-cent doughnut shop on Court Street. And the Edwin Link family, the inventor. And also for a time did restaurant work: the G & H Diner, helping with many chores: the dishes, counter work, and also the diet kitchen in the old Broome County Infirmary on Front Street, and Vail-Ballou book bindery. Then I worked in E.J.’s in the very early years in the Jigger Factory on Willow Street making tennis shoes. And also in Dunn McCarthy Factory as [chuckles] fancy stitcher. Then for a time I went to New York, worked on 5th Avenue and Park Avenue. I didn’t like the cockroaches. Even in wealthy homes, the bugs appeared now and then in old buildings. I had $75.00 a month pay and room and board. That was in 1939, about. I always liked Binghamton—I think it’s nice to travel around, but here is where I like to hang my coat. Especially [laughing] I’ll always remember our great neighbors. Minnie and John Murphy of 3 Berlin Street, who helped mold my childhood. Actually, Mrs. Murphy, who had no children, was a great help to my mother. She taught my mother the American way of life and came over to show her how to make pumpkin pie, custard puddings, and beef vegetable style, and corned beef and cabbage, and doughnuts. She had been a cook in the Waterfleet New York Hotel in her days, and she was quite a cook. And of course my mother exchanged apple strudel and kolachky for some of her cooking. She used to bring over, to us kids when we came home at lunchtime, some hot meals. Not many people do that today to help out. She was a great neighbor. My mother worked in the cigar factory, couldn't be home to get our lunches. Mrs. Murphy brought over many times, how I remember. Baked potatoes, especially, and creamed cod fish—I loved that. Anna: What did your mother do in the cigar factory? Elizabeth: She was a bunch maker, and she rolled cigars—that’s what she did, and sometimes she made more than my father did in the shoe factory [laughs]. And Mrs. Murphy made real molasses cookies, and mince pie with beef in it, and she inspired my parents to go to night school, and both my parents learned to read. Mrs. Murphy was not a habitual churchgoer, but she was a respected individual and will always live in the hearts of all who knew her, because to live in hearts we leave behind is not to die, and God will always bless America as long as there are people like the Murphys and the Konecnys that can help each other and set a good example for generations to come. And in the face of the high cost of living today, a good word and a helping hand will create the necessary boost we need to encourage us to go on, no matter what life holds. Anna: Did you ever, what did you do for amusement? Elizabeth: Oh, well. When I was very young I used to go out to pick berries up in Ely Park, that was our favorite pastime—when we were kids, that is. And, ah, after I grew up to be a teenager, I did a little dancing in the Pavilion, and met—and saw some of the great band leaders and all. Anna: What were some of the—could you remember some of the band leaders? Elizabeth: Well, of course Benny Goodman, and all those. I didn’t I go too much but I saw some of the greats: Johnny, Johnny Greene, and his band, and—oh dear, who is it? Now that I can’t think. Anna: Did you ever go to the Woodrow Wilson alumni— Elizabeth: Yes, I went to the Woodrow Wilson School here in Binghamton, up to the 8th grade, and we had wonderful teachers there as I remember. Miss, ah—Miss, ah…she taught us English—oh dear, she’s dead now. Mrs., Miss Stone was the principal, of course. Anna: Miss Berzel? Elizabeth: No, Miss Merzel was in Jarvis Street School. I went part-time to Jarvis Street School too. And Woodrow was very nice but we had to come home from school every lunchtime. It took us an hour, I mean, to get back home and eat and do the dishes up and then go back to school. We had an hour to walk all that distance and then go back again. Snow, raining, or shine, no buses, no cafeterias, but we made out [laughs] because as I say, Mrs. Murphy always gave us a lift there—she had no children. Her husband was a blacksmith here on Hawley Street where the old police station used to be—yes. He was one of the last of the, ah, last of the blacksmiths in town, and he died in 1930. So he was a great man. He also bought an old Ford, old Tin Lizzie [laughs]. He never had electricity in his house, he didn't believe in it—they used kerosene oil. Although we had electricity in our house next door to him. And, ah, our childhood was much different than today, yes it was, and we did more chores around the house than kids think of today. We had all the chores to do because our parents worked—we had to scrub clothes on a washboard, and I remember standing on a little stool just so I could reach the washboard and do my stuff, because my older sister did housework outside. And I had to carry on and do the cooking at 12—I was quite a cook—so I learned, because our parents were both working. That’s how it is today too, both parents are working, but the children, I guess, do not do much cooking. aside from (laughs) hamburgers they can get around the corner, and potato chips and Coca-Cola. I was raised up on different type of food and I'm glad I have that to remember, and I try to keep up as much as I can. Maybe that’s what keeps people young in their outlook on life, and what they've had in the past makes up for a good life. You have to eat good, sensible food in order to live a long life and be healthy—and do your share of work. It’s all fun in the long run. But it can’t be all play in life, you can’t expect to be loafing around and playing games or cards—I wasn't much for card games, it’s a waste of time, or bingo [laughs]. I suppose that’s all amusement, but I have a simple way of life, and I like to walk an awful lot and see nature. That’s my amusement–and my grandchildren now. Anna: Do you like to do anything by hand? Elizabeth: Oh, I used to do a little crocheting and patchwork and embroidery, and some painting pictures on the side. That was my hobby. Oh, but I have not been so interested in it lately, it’s too much hard work. I don’t like the idea of being gummed up with paint and get my house all plastered up, I just don’t care for it anymore. But it’s a great hobby; they told me I did well. I have a few pictures I did, but I don’t expect to sell them for a great deal, so I [laughs] keep them. And don’t have them hanging on the walls, either. But someday, I’ll get back to it and enjoy painting once again. Because—maybe when I get older [laughs]—I’m too young—I’m too young to get old. Anna: You’re retired now? Elizabeth: Now I’m retired, I’m 67, yes. And I expect I’ll like to live to be 85, at least. And if I keep going the way I have and no setbacks, no real ill health, why, then I’ll probably make it and try to help other people that are in worse condition than I am, or—here in the building where I live, there’s some that need help and don’t have too much money to pay for a nurse. Why, you could give a little of your time, but don’t be taken advantage of to the full length. Just a little here and a little there, it’s good to help people along the way, and that’ll make your day. So I am glad to have had this opportunity to talk and tell a little about my life. But at any rate—well, I think I missed out on saying all of the places I worked at. I worked in E.J. Jigger factory and in Dunn McCarthy, I said that before, and the Links—oh—Broome County Infirmary, did I mention that? And Vail Ballou in the book bindery, and—I think I mentioned that, yes. But anyhow, it pays—my father gave me a good example in life, always not to be money mad but to do a job where your heart is in it and to like your work, no matter how much you got paid. Of course, my trouble was I never got much money, but I think I was happy in life, and that’s the main thing. Thank you. Anna: Oh, thank you, Betty. Thank you. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Elizabeth Hladik Subject The topic of the resource Hladik, Elizabeth -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Children of immigrants -- Interviews; Household employees -- Interviews; Endicott Johnson Corporation -- Employees -- Interviews; Cigar industry Description An account of the resource Elizabeth Hladik talks about her parents' emigration from Czechoslovakia and being the only one of six siblings to attend school, up until the 8th grade, after which point she was employed as a domestic. She worked at Vale Ballou, Dunn McCarthy, Endicott Johnson, and in New York City. She speaks of a Mrs. Murphy who was very helpful to her mother in adapting to the American lifestyle. She also discusses how her parents attended night school to learn the language, her mother's employment at the Cigar Factory, and her father's employment at the Endicott Johnson Corporation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 33 https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/0f2f717588a27b8de477567116398046.mp3 e70149249db6fe61300777d462564aab https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/479dab3c16426a44282d18dd17d3af4f.mp3 ccbc935f875e9dcb33bd2613988ee3fd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Isenburg, Florence Parsons Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-12 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 49:06 Minutes ; 10:58 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55947">Interview with Florence Parsons Isenburg</a> Subject LCSH Isenburg, Florence Parsons -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms; Teachers -- Interviews; Cortland (N.Y.) Normal School Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mrs. Florence Parsons Isenburg Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 12 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood: interviewer. And our respondent is Mrs. Florence Isenburg of 1216 Poppy Avenue, Warrington, Florida. The date is 12 January, 1978. Florence: I have been asked to record some of my memories of my early life. I was born May 14, 1889, so I will soon be 89 years old. Marge [Florence’s daughter]: Go. Florence: —to a farm family living at Chenango Bridge near the Chenango River. Our family consisted of my father and mother Herbert and Emma Parsons and one sister. The house we lived in is still standing and occupied, but is very old as it was owned by my grandparents and perhaps built or partly built by my grandfather, as he was a carpenter. My father loved the farm, which he purchased from his mother when he married. He raised vegetables, including potatoes, sweet corn, tomatoes, onions, beans, melons, berries and had many fruit trees.This produce he carried to market with a team of horses and wagon to sell to the grocery stores, hotels and hucksters or street peddlers. On the farm we also raised pigs, cows, chickens and had two horses to do the farm work. With all of these vegetables and animals we had plenty of good, nourishing food. We had a grocery store but were not able to buy any baked goods or fresh fruits or vegetables, so we practically lived off the farm. Mother made butter from the cows’ milk. After straining it in the milk cans, it was set in the cellar until the cream came to the top, when it was skimmed off into a large pail. After a few days it was poured into a wooden churn with a dasher by plunging the dasher up and down for a few minutes until the butter was separated from the sour milk, which was then called buttermilk. The butter was taken out in a wooden butter bowl, washed, salted and packed in jars. Most of it was sold, but we used all we needed. Mother worked very hard as she had no household appliances, no running water, no electricity. She made all of our clothes, washed using a rubbing board after heating the water on the stove. We had a refrigerator cooled by large blocks of ice which was stored in an ice house after being cut on the river in the winter and stored for summer use. The refrigerator didn't keep the food very cold, so most of it was carried to the cellar. But one advantage of having the ice was that we had homemade ice cream, which was delicious. It was a good life. We did not miss the things we had never had. Everyone did his share of the work. Summers were very busy, but in winter we had time to sit around the fire, or visit with a neighbor, occasionally. Of course usually when we went to the neighbor's home in the evening they popped corn and brought big red apples from the cellar for our refreshments. Mother canned and pickled hundreds of jars of fruits and vegetables which were stored in the cellar for winter. Dad butchered a hog, making sausage and ham for our own use. There was always a ham for Sunday dinner or for company. People now are complaining about their utility bills which are high—are high. We had no utility bills as we had no electricity, no gas, no telephone, no garbage collection, no running water, no mail delivery. And yet, we did not feel depressed or poor. The church was the center of social life. We looked forward to Sunday when we could wear our one best dress and see all our friends. Occasionally there was a church supper when everyone took a covered dish and enjoyed a meal with friends. There were also simple church socials in the summertime. The principal event of summer was the Sunday School picnic, which was held at either Ross Park in Binghamton or at Lily Lake. At the park were animals in cages and a merry-go-round. At the lake were boats and we could go bathing but the water was so cold so the children all preferred to·the park—to go to the park. A bountiful dinner was supplied by all who attended. The one-room rural school which I attended from ages 6-14 was on a lot adjoining our farm. My sister and I had only to walk across the garden to get to school. That had advantages and disadvantages. It was very easy to get there even in winter when the snow was deep, but in good weather Mother insisted that we come home for lunch, which in our house was called dinner, the main meal of the day. That took too much of our noon hour when we wanted to play with the other children. There were usually 15-25 pupils of all ages and grades from 1-8 with one teacher. This teacher was also the janitor, sweeping the floor, hanging the flag, getting the pail of water, building the fire unless she engaged one of the boys to do it. She received about $8.00 per week and usually boarded with one of the families. In earlier days the teachers boarded around, that is, stayed a week in a place with some of the parents where they paid no board. Then when they paid board it was $2.50 per week. We sometimes boarded—we sometimes boarded a teacher. There were two doors at school—they were two doors—two doors from a hall—one for the boys, one for the girls. In the center of the room was a large pot-bellied stove, which burned wood in summer and coal in winter. There were four rows of double seats in graduated sizes. The teacher's desk faced these with a large recitation bench between. As the class recited they left their seats and sat on the recitation bench. While one class recited the others were supposed to be preparing their own lessons. With so many classes they were necessarily short and pupils had to do much of the work for themselves without the teacher's help. That had some advantages. Teachers were allowed to punish the disobedient ones—and usually did so to keep order. I well remember several of my teachers and know I had a feeling of fear and admiration for them. They believed in the adage “spare the rod and spoil the child,” so they didn't spoil the child. It would seem that under these conditions education would have been poor, but we were obliged to memorize tables, to memorize spelling, to study maps and to learn many facts from our reading which are not required today. [Parents] were obliged to furnish the children's books, pencils, and papers. Some slate pencils were used to save paper. Every year the teacher was allowed to borrow 25 books from the state library for use during the year. It was an exciting day when the books arrived to see what we were getting to read. There was a bookcase in our room but very few books. Our blackboards were boards painted with black paint which soon wore off. After a time, one progressive trustee had some real blackboards installed. In the rear of the building—on either side—was a small outhouse or privy, as they were called. One for the girls, one for the boys, with a very high board fence between. In the hall, on a high shelf, was a water pail and dipper from which everyone drank—no fear of germs in those days! I credit my 8th grade teacher in preparing me to take the Regents Exams which must be passed in order to enter High School. They came from the State and were uniform, used in all schools. I had to go to Chenango Forks on the train to take them, and as I had never been to a strange school, I was frightened. There were exams in all subjects which took two days, but I passed them all due to my very good teaching. Now I had finished our rural school and there was no high school nearby—what was I to do? The high school in Binghamton was the nearest, but we had no way of getting back and forth. We found that there was a train service going north to Whitney Point 15 miles away, so my parents decided to send me there. The train returning at 4 P.M. was a freight train with a small coach for passengers in the rear. It was slow, but it allowed us to do our homework. The D.L. & W. Railroad issued special monthly tickets to students. I well remember my first day at high school in Whitney Point. The building looked very large to me. The lower grades were on the first floor and high school on the second floor. I climbed the stairs and straight ahead of me was the large auditorium where pupils were sitting. Mother had made me a new dark blue dress and I had a dark blue hat. Everyone wore hats in those days. I did not notice the cloakroom at the left, so walked right into the room with my hat on my head. I was so embarrassed as the others laughed, so I have never forgotten about it. High school in those days did not provide so many subjects as they do today. There were no easy subjects like Shop, Bowling, Homemaking, etc. Everyone must take Math, English, History and a foreign language or two—later Geometry, Physics, Science, etc. I remember we had a small laboratory where we dissected several small animals. I did not enjoy that. On finishing a course we were obliged to pass a Regents Examination sent by the State, and after completing a certain number of subjects we were graduated. I was then 18 years old in 1907. Someone asked me recently why I became a school teacher. I really had not thought about it before. I believe there were several factors which brought it about. My grandmother Parsons had nine children, and sometime during their life, eight of them taught school. I also had several cousins who taught. As I have said our home was the old farmhouse where the nine Parsons children were brought up. In the upper hall and attic were shelves of books they had used and left. I used to enjoy looking at them and reading them. I think these things influenced me to become a teacher, besides I always have loved school. There were several Normal schools in New York State. They are now 4 year colleges. Cortland was the nearest to us and I had some cousins living there.Today it is an easy drive on a good road of about 40 miles. In 1907 it was a long journey on a train. My parents bought me a trunk, which I still have to pack my clothes, as I didn't expect to come home often. I got a room near the college building and took my meals at a home nearby with about 20 other girls. Our studies consisted in methods of teaching, psychology, and review of all other grade subjects. Later we had observed model teaching using students from the grades who attended school here. During one last term we did the teaching under supervision of the Normal teachers. This was the most difficult, as we knew we were being criticized. I joined the sorority Clionian. We had a meeting room in the building and had many good times, however I was very homesick much of the time I was here. Nowadays a student could drive home every week if they desired. My first teaching experience was in a small rural school similar to, in many ways, to the one I had attended as a child. It was on Upper Front Street, then called Christian Street. I had 12 or 15 pupils in several grades and received $10 per week and did the janitor work. As it was about 2 ½ miles from home, I often drove a horse and buggy in summer or a horse and sleigh in winter. If Dad needed the horse I walked. Sometimes the snow was about to my knees, so I arrived very wet and had to build a fire in the pot-bellied stove before I could get dry. As the children arrived they were also cold and wet, so they sat or stood around the stove much of the forenoon. I can still smell the wet mittens and scarves as they were drying. We opened the school in the morning by a Bible reading and repeating the Lord’s Prayer. Books were hard to come by, but many times some second-hand ones were to be found by an older child who had used them. By using the blackboard it was possible to start work in Arithmetic and Spelling, supplemented by books I had selected. Most parents were willing to provide supplies for their children. The teaching was largely individual as the children were all at different levels of learning. A few subjects could be taught to the whole group at one time, such as Writing, Health and Physiology. I do not remember having any problems with the children as to discipline. In those days children respected their teachers and looked up to them. What the teacher said was right. How different it is today! At noon we used to go out and ride downhill—there was a hill nearby—and then in the evening, after school was out, we used to go skating. That was great fun. Most of my 20 years of teaching was done in my home district where I had attended school. For several years I taught in the same small one-room building until the population grew—until there were about 40 pupils, just too many for one teacher. A new building was erected and two teachers hired. The salary had greatly advanced from $10.00 per week to $40.00. I taught grades 5 to 8 in the new school. It seemed that this would be sufficient for many years, but in a short time the town had grown so that a larger school was necessary and also a high school. I will tell you a little more about our neighborhood. We had a few near neighbors whom we saw often in the evening, or if anyone was sick. We seldom called a doctor, but neighbors came to help and always brought food. There was a doctor who made house calls, so in that way we were more fortunate than people are today. Midwives delivered the babies, doctors were not needed. My grandmother delivered dozens of them.The threshers came once a year to thresh the grain and we always had husking bees in the evening which were lots of fun. Mother always had a big dinner for the husk—or for the threshers. At the end of the bridge—farther end of the bridge on the right was a blacksmith shop where Dad took the horses to be shod. I used to go along and watch. On the left was the tollhouse where the man lived who collected the toll from the Chenango Canal, which ran along close to the river. I do not remember when the canal was being used but in winter it froze and made a wonderful skating pond. Hiram Johnson had a small grocery store near the depot and railroad. Near the door on the left were about 30 boxes for mail. That was our post office. He also sold stamps. We had no daily paper, but a weekly Binghamton Republican came once a week. Dad liked to go to the store in the evening to sit around the stove and hear the news. His excuse was to go for the mail. Nearly every home had a hitching post and horse block in front at the roadside. Callers usually came with a horse and wagon, so the hitching post was necessary. The horse block was a large stone or else a lot of little stones piled up. It was necessary because the wagons were much higher from the ground than our cars are today. Women wore long skirts so it was quite difficult to get into them. By standing on the horse block and taking a step that extended from the wagon, they could climb into the wagon seat. Our kitchen was the most important room of the house. It was a large room with a hard pine floor which Mother cleaned and oiled to keep it shiny. A black iron cook stove kept us warm and cooked and baked much delicious food. There was a reservoir attached to one side which we kept filled with—to provide the hot water. It was all the hot water we had except for the tea kettle, because we had no bathroom. A large extension table had many uses. We ate on it often, although Mother liked to set the table in the dining room. The table also provided a place for us to study, to read, and to sort beans in the winter. Dad raised shell-beans, but before he could sell them they had to be looked over to remove any poor ones and shells. The table was lighted by a kerosene lamp. Often in the evening we had to help Mother sew carpet rags. The only carpets we had were woven on looms—made of rags. They were woven in strips about one yard wide, and sewed. Aunt Celia had one room where she had a large loom. She wove carpets for us and for many other people. At the end of the room was a black iron sink and pump—which—the pump raised water from a cistern. Our drinking water came from a well and bucket in the backyard. Behind the stove was a shelf which held a row of kerosene lamps, which had to be cleaned and filled frequently. On the shelf was a very old clock with wooden works and two heavy iron weights. Father wound it every night as he went to bed. Bedrooms were very pleasant in summer but very cold in winter. Our house was heated by two stoves—cook stove in the kitchen and a parlor stove in the parlor. As we had no bathroom, bedrooms had a wash bowl and pitcher and a washstand which in the bottom had a little door which held the chamber pot. We had to be sure no water was left in the pitcher in winter as it would freeze. Some of the older beds were called cord beds—instead of springs, a heavy rope was woven across between the side rails to hold up the mattress. The mattress—the mattress was a pad and then ticking filled with corn husks or dried straw and on top of that a feather bed—filled—a bed filled with feathers. Sheets were not bought ready-made—as they are today. Some were made of muslin, often unbleached muslin which was a yard wide, so the sheet always had a seam down the middle. When they began to wear thin women turned the sheet sewing the outside edges together so that they would last longer. Other sheets were made of linen. Linen is made from flax—stems of the flax plant. This was another task that colonial women had to do. There was a small flax wheel and a larger spinning wheel which made the fibers into threads. The thread was then woven on a loom to make linen cloth. Sheets and pillow cases, tablecloths and napkins were made of the linen cloth. The sheets also had a seam down through the middle. I think sometimes the linen was used for fine underwear, such as for a bridal outfit. Sheet-blankets made out of cotton or wool were also used in winter with many bed quilts. Quilting bees were another social activity. When a quilt top was finished the neighbor women were invited in to help put it on the quilting frame and to quilt it with many fine stitches. There are many quilt patterns. Some of the most popular were Wedding Ring, Double Irish Chain, Dresden Plate, Necktie, and Log Cabin. A bedspread or coverlet called a counterpane was woven on a loom using white cotton warp and navy blue, or occasionally red wool for the woof. There were many beautiful patterns. They were reversible and often had the weaver's initials woven in the corner. They also were seamed through the center. People dressed differently in those days. I have already stated that women's skirts were long. They were also full, covering two petticoats. In winter everyone wore long underwear, that is the long legs and long sleeves of heavy knitted cotton. In summer the underwear still covered much of the body, but was of a lighter weight. Women wore corsets laced in the back and it was the style to lace them tight to have a small waistline. Over these was worn a corset cover, a garment without sleeves and low neck to cover the corset. Bras and shorts had not been invented. Some men working outside in the cold weather wore felt boots extending to the knees and over them a rubber arctic with buckles. My father wore rubber boots with sock slippers inside. Blue jeans did not have the popularity they have today. They were worn by farm laborers and those doing menial jobs. It was unheard of for a girl to wear pants of any kind. Children’s clothing was somewhat like their parents’. Girls’ dresses were well below the knees. I had one best dress for winter made of wool, and one summer best dress for Sunday. The winter dress just before—was made just before Christmas and the summer dress for Children's Day, which was celebrated with a program in our church on the second Sunday of June. Of course we had several other dresses for school but not too many. We were—we wore them until they were—we grew out of them or they were worn out. Bathing suits have made the greatest change of all. How shocked my mother would be to see a present day, bather! Ladies' bathing suits were bloomers to the knees, often with black stockings and sneakers below. The blouse often had a sailor collar. They were made of a material called brilliantine. Oh yes, we also wore a cap to cover our hair. Children wore an old dress and a pair of underpants. Men's shorts—men’s suits were knitted cotton which came to the knees and covered most of the body. We really went “bathing” instead of “swimming,” as it was difficult to swim with so many clothes. The first sewing machine we had was a Howe, propelled by a pedal, but much sewing was done by hand. Ladies would not think of making bed quilts on a machine. They were all sewed by hand and quilted. Only one home in our town had a bathroom. It was very different from today's bath—baths. The tub was zinc—in a wooden case like a coffin. The water to flush the tub—the toilet—was in a wooden box near the ceiling with a chain extending from it, which was pulled to release the water. Marge: I don't know what happened here, Wanda, but there's more, so just let it continue to play. Florence: In summer quite often we had the company of bees and in winter our stay was short because of the cold. Father's farm lantern made a cheery light if necessary to make an evening call. These were called backhouses or privies, and on Hallowe'en it often happened that the backhouse was overturned by celebrators. Speaking of baths—the rest of us who had no baths—bathrooms, used the wash bowl and pitcher in our bedroom in summer, but in winter we filled a washtub half full of water and bathed in front of the kitchen stove on Saturday night. Father planned an ambitious project to have running water in our house. Our farm extended on the north up a very steep hill where here was a natural spring of water. In order to pipe the water down a ditch had to be dug through a very stony hard soil. It also had to cross over a, quite a long—a big hill which we called the knoll. To avoid freezing, this ditch must be at least 4 or 5 feet deep. Today it would be done by machinery, but at that time it had to be dug with pick and shovel, and with lots of muscle and perseverance. A small lead pipe was placed in the ditch and although the pressure was weak—we at last had cold running water in our kitchen sink. It was several years after that before we had a bathroom. As population increased, telephone and mail service became necessary. A stock company was formed called the Chenango Valley Company, in which interested people bought stock and a line was constructed with a central office in the little village—at first in a private home. By calling through central we were able to talk to Binghamton. Eventually a rural mail delivery—R.F.D. #4—was inaugurated, but we still, even today, have a post office in Chenango Bridge. Electricity came later, when I was about 25 years old, as I remember giving up my kerosene lamps and having electric lights put in the house. We finally had radio. It was an Atwater-Kent, the first one we had. The program I remember best was Amos and Andy. Here is a little more about my school-teaching days. You may be sure with 15 or 25 pupils in about 5 or 6 grades, the teacher was very busy and classes had to be short—about 15 minutes each. About the time of World War II some department in education hierarchy decided that Physical Training should be taught in all the schools. In order to teach it, the teachers were obliged to take lessons. So we had several classes where we learned to give the commands for daily drills similar to those given to the soldiers. These we were obliged to do at least twice a day. This was required for several years and then discontinued. I am sure the children got all the exercise that they needed at recess and noon hours. Most of them had a long walk home—there were no school buses in those days. There have been many changes in schools since my school days of 80 years ago, not in just the buildings, but in the many other ways. There's no doubt that the present buildings are much finer, more convenient, conducive to the health and welfare of the children. Also there is no comparison in the cost of the two buildings, and in the cost of their upkeep. A teacher today may receive in one day what a teacher in an early rural school received in a month. But are the results in proportion to the cost? Are children today so much better educated? I grant that young people are now better informed than in early days, but I attribute that partly to the various ways that news is disseminated, such as radio, television, magazines, newspapers and not entirely to their formal education. Perhaps I'm not qualified to judge the education of today as I have not taught in nearly thirty years, but I have grandchildren who have gone through the grade schools, through high school and two have been to college, so I have had some contact with present day schools in Florida. I know schools differ from state to state, so perhaps what I say about our Florida schools may not apply in Broome County. However I think in a general way all states have their problems in education. There has been a universal complaint that high school students and even some college students cannot read as they should. Recently all students here about to graduate from high school, had to take a literacy test in order to receive a diploma. What is the cause or causes of this deficiency? It cannot be laid to the teachers entirely, as it is so widespread. I may be wrong, but I think I can see at least partly the causes. About twenty or twenty-five years ago the word method of teaching reading in the primary grades, was introduced. A child was taught word for word by repetition of that word in the stories he read. He was helpless to learn new words until they appeared in his reading lessons. Formerly, children were taught phonics, learning the sounds of the letters so that when he encountered a new word, he had the ability to sound it out and pronounce it. The textbooks used were written to teach the word method, so unless the teacher taught it on her own, they did not learn phonics. Many teachers did use the sound method, and that—pupils became better readers. I saw examples of this in my own grandchildren. At last the phonics method is being taught in many schools, so hopefully there will be an improvement in the reading ability of pupils. As I see it, another cause of poor readers is the fact that with the popularity of TV children do not read for themselves. Many children haven't read such classics as Black Beauty, Gulliver’s Travels, Prince and the Pauper, Alice in Wonderland and so forth. It is easier to watch a TV program than to exert oneself to read a book. TV has its place and children learn much from it if they watch the right programs, but not for several hours every day to the exclusion of exercise and reading. I discussed the school situation with one of the teachers. She informed me that one of the problems was the lack of interest of the parents. Parents, in many cases, consider that they have no obligation to see that the children are doing well in school or doing their homework or if they have—that they do not have any duty to help the teacher. Instead of taking an interest in the homework, they prefer to watch television. Many children need the encouragement of the parents to do their best work. As a teacher is not allowed to use any physical means of discipline, and pupils know this, the discipline becomes a problem. In olden days we were allowed and expected to give a child a sharp slap with our hand or ruler, if they deserved it. Now a teacher could be sued or brought to court if she did such a thing. Consequently, like the doctor, she needs to carry insurance to protect herself. And very often a child reports an injury was—caused by the teacher when she had no part in it. One example: a boy was angry with his teacher for correcting him. He had some scratches on his arm, which he told his mother was done by the teacher. After a conference by those involved in the principal's office, the boy finally confessed that the cat had scratched him. In olden days many parents told their children, “If you get a whipping at school, you’ll get another at home.” That was going too far the other way, but it was a help to the teacher. Some teachers sent their children out in the backyard  to get a switch off from a bush out there to bring in to whip themselves. They tried real hard to find a real small switch. The subject of English also includes grammar. Most teachers require the reading of books and the writing of book reports, but some neglect the teaching of grammar, which I consider very important. How can a person use good English if they do not know the parts of speech, and the declensions, parsing and diagramming of sentences? This may not be true of all high schools, but ours here have had what I consider too many fancy specialized courses, which take time that should be devoted to something more important. Under the name of Physical Education they take pupils on school buses to bowling alleys, golf courses, roller-skate rinks, swimming pools for exercise. So much time is consumed in going and returning that very little time is left for the activity. Also parents are required to pay for their children's use of the equipment. If a child does not have the money for these things, he gets a failing mark on Physical Ed. Homemaking and Woodworking are two other easy courses which are good in their place, if they do not detract from the basic academic subjects. Girls are required to take the Homemaking, but boys are not. A few years ago a subject called New Math, complete with new textbooks, was introduced in the schools. I have examined the books and have talked with interested people about the subject, but I am not able to intelligently criticize it. I think I understand the underlying principle. It is to give pupils the real meaning of a number. Five is not just a symbol, but means five articles, and “five times five equals twenty-five” is not just an equation, but means five groups with five articles in each group. In other words, to understand what numbers stand for, some of the methods to prove it are time-consuming. So after demonstrating the real meaning of a number, I think tables should be memorized. Ah—now some teachers are combining the old methods with the new. I understand that the New Math carries over into Algebra and Geometry and perhaps makes the three subjects— I well remember the first automobile I saw. One of the progressive farmers, Eugene Chamberlain, bought it. It looked much like a farm wagon on wheels. It was very high up—it even had a whip-socket. The wheels were hard—no rubber tires—and it traveled rather slowly. My sister and I ran along beside it and had no trouble keeping up with it. It was several years before my father felt that he could afford a car, which was then a Ford. As he has always driven horses, so when he tried to drive the car, he was looking both sides of him to see what was going on along the roadside and when he wanted to stop he said, “Whoa, whoa back," just as if he was talking to the horses. Marge: And then he went in the river! [laughter]. All right, go ahead. Florence: Only one home in our town had a bathroom. It was very different from today's bath. The tub was zinc in a case like a coffin. Water to flush the toilet was in a wooden box near the ceiling with a chain extending from it, which was pulled to release the water. The lavatory was of real marble. The rest of us had to visit a little building at the rear of our houses. These contained three holes, one smaller than the others for small children. Instead of toilet paper, which had not been made yet, we used Sears-Roebuck catalogs. That made a trip interesting, as there was always something to look at in the catalog. In summer quite often we had the company of bees and in winter our stay was short because of the cold. Father’s farm lantern made a cheery light if necessary to make an evening call. These little buildings were called backhouses or privies. Now on Hallowe’en it often happened that the backhouse was overturned by celebrators. Husking bees was another chance for neighbors to get together for a social evening. Corn had to be husked so it could be fed to the chickens. On a warm evening young and old gathered at one of the neighbors' barns, and as they visited and told stories they husked the corn. If a man found a red ear he could kiss any girl he pleased. Usually the hostess served some refreshments, perhaps homemade doughnuts and cider. As I said before the husks were dried and used to fill the bed-ticks. After the corn was husked, it had to be shelled and the corn cobs made wonderful kindling to start the fires in the kitchen stoves. So nothing was wasted. Bands of gypsies traveled around the country in summer and I remember once when they came to our town. In those days they had covered wagons, gaily colored and drawn by fine-looking horses. Now they travel with cars. They stopped and set up camp on a river flat where there were no houses nearby, but the neighbors were alarmed, fearing what they might do. So the man who owned the property was asked to have them moved on. They unharnessed the horses, started a fire to cook a meal, and several women in gay dresses, lots of beads and long braids, with very dark skins, ah—came knocking at doors asking to tell our fortunes. If they did not move that—as they did not move that night, everyone locked doors and shut up the chicken coops, as they had a reputation of stealing anything they could find. They left the next day. Gypsies originally wandered around—were wandering tribes in Europe, but now they have come to this country and there are quite a few tribes of them around. Dad had a sleigh with a long box. Once he took our school for a sleigh ride. We had a string of bells on the horses. He covered the floor with a—of the sleigh with straw to sit on. Some of the boys got out and threw snowballs at the ones in the sleigh. Riding downhill on our sleds was great fun, and also skating. Skates in those days were fastened on by straps around the toes and ankles. They did not stay on very well. Later we had skates fastened to our shoe—our shoe soles, but most people couldn't afford them. Skating was my favorite sport. When the young couples had sleigh—sleigh rides they usually went to a hall for an oyster stew supper and then square-danced and played such games—kissing games. Those days are gone forever, for even if there were any horses and sleighs, the snowplows have cleared the roads of snow. Of all the seasons, perhaps winter was the one most enjoyed by the young people. The first snowflakes were hailed with delight. It meant sliding downhill, skating on the ponds, sleigh rides, parties, and best of all—Christmas. Preparations for Christmas were made well in advance as there was little money to spend and even if people were able to go to the stores there was not much—so much—in—ah—many inviting things to buy as there are today. At school, with the teacher's help and suggestions, pupils made gifts for their parents such as pot-holders, needle books, pen-wipers and so forth. Also soon after December first the school began preparation for a Christmas program to be given on the Friday before Christmas when school was out for vacation. First they began practicing Christmas carols and songs of which “Jingle Bells” was perhaps the favorite. The teacher was busy hunting up Christmas poems and plays as every one must have a part, either to speak a piece or sing. Then for busy work on cold stormy days, colored paper was cut in strips and pasted together to make paper chains for decorations. Stars were pasted on the windows and snow scenes were drawn on the blackboards. On the last day of school, everyone cleaned his desk to be ready for the guests to arrive. The mothers came to hear the program. Small gifts, mostly from the ten-cent store, were exchanged. Teachers received handkerchiefs, writing paper and pretty—maybe a pretty dish or some homemade article or candy. She gave each child a gift—perhaps something they could use in school, like a box of colored crayons or a pad. Everyone went home happy and the teacher was relieved that it was over. Christmas is celebrated today in the schools, but in a very different way. One thing is— [TAPE 2] Marge: On. The main thing that's lacking—in the schools. Florence: The meaning of Christmas or any religious reference, is forbidden by law. If children do not go to Sunday School, many of them never know what Christmas is all about. Our town had one church, the Methodist, and there was always a Christmas tree and program—some evening just before Christmas. The Sunday School teachers were responsible for preparing the program, so the children were assigned parts and met after school and on Saturday to practice. Parents brought presents for their children so that, so when Santa arrived he could call each child's name. The tree had no electric lights, but was decorated with the packages which the parents had brought and strings of popcorn and cranberries. Santa always presented each child with a bag containing an orange and some ribbon candy. Oranges were quite a treat as we seldom had any in winter. The best part of Christmas was that spent at home or with our families. I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, but my sister and I hung our stockings and always found something in them in the morning. Dad went up on our hill where there were many trees and brought us a lovely hemlock which we decorated with paper chains, popcorn and hung all small packages on the branches. Some people used candles, but Mother thought they were too dangerous. As we had two families of relatives, aunts and uncles and children living nearby, we all got together at one of the houses for a big Christmas dinner. After the dinner, gifts were distributed. Gifts in those days were different than today. They didn't cost so much and they were a surprise. Nowadays everyone tells what he or she wants and expects to get, even if it is too expensive. I liked the old gifts much better. One Christmas I received a Bible and on another a gold ring. Mother always made us doll clothes for our dolls, and they were beautifully made of scraps of material and lace left from her sewing. Marge: One thing that Mom didn't bother writing about that—or talk about the church is that—oh—the church was a very important part of our lives. Oh—you didn't just graduate from one department to the next just 'cause you got that age. Ah—my group, when I was comin' up through, we had to go to Viola Noye's and we had to learn the Beatitudes and the books of the Bible and a lot of other memory work and then we had to go during the eleven o'clock service and recite all this in order to get promoted to the next department. And a—I think this is something that children nowadays aren't expected to do in school or Sunday School and that is to do memory work. And that—is a real shame because it doesn't prepare their mind to remember things. Florence: When I was a child, a lady by the name of Ada Hall had all the young people come to the church, on Sunday afternoon, where she taught us many, many facts about the Bible and we memorized many things in the Bible. These things have always stood by me and been a great help to me in teaching Sunday School class, which I have done for many, many years. I have tried to recall how our life many years ago differed from our life today. It was a good life and had some advantages over life today. I shouldn't have repeated there. People tried to live within their means. They rarely bought things they did not have the money to pay for. There was not so much worry about debts as there is today. Installment buying was unheard of. Old people were cared for in their ho—children's homes. There were no nursing homes. Very poor people had to go to the poorhouse, which was supported by taxes. Neighbors were more neighborly. If anyone was sick they did not go to the hospital, but were cared for in the home. Doctors made house calls. There is no comparison in the cost of living today and that of eighty years ago, and although wages are much higher today, expenses have increased proportionately. Of course people today buy things that in olden days would not be considered, even if they were available. Luxuries have become necessities. I have criticized the schools and some phases of education, but school buildings of today are beautiful, teachers are well-educated, much money is spent on the educational system. Children are required to attend school. Much of the material used is furnished, so, on the whole, I think we can be proud of our school systems. One thing I didn't mention about schools was the writing. As far as I know most teachers do not have any formal penmanship classes. Some children write well, but many do not. Our teachers were obliged to take lessons with Palmer Method writing and have regular penmanship classes in school every day. Palmer Method involves using the muscles of the arm while holding the pen or pencil with the fingers, instead of using the fingers to guide the pencil. On my father's farm is a peat bog which I believe is the only one in Broome County. Peat represents the first stage in the development of coal, from vegetable matter under pressure. It consists of a brown substance, fibrous and woody, saturated with moisture and can be cut easily. My father cut it out in square blocks, dried them on a rack and ground them up. He then sold the peat for horse bedding. In those days there were many horses in Binghamton and peat moss made a desirable bedding material. Today people buy it as a mulch around shrubbery. Where the peat had been cut out, a little pond formed where we used to skate in the winter. Occasionally the peat area would accidentally get on fire. It burned with an acrid smoke that was very annoying to everybody living nearby. It burned very deep and we had no way of quenching the fire. Finally it burned itself out. Women's apparel has changed greatly. Just imagine a well-dressed woman walking to church on Sunday morning. She has on a hat or bonnet and shawl or cape for a wrap, a long dress, high-bottomed shoes and black cotton stockings. Her hands were covered with hand-knitted mittens or gloves. Little girls were a small edition of their mothers. Mother's hair was long and twisted in a knot on her head, while the child's was in braids down her back—no bobs or short hair in those days. There are many other things I could tell you about the good old days, but I think I've done pretty well to remember as much as I have, so I think we'll call this finished. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Florence Parsons Isenburg Subject The topic of the resource Isenburg, Florence Parsons -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Farms; Teachers -- Interviews; Cortland (N.Y.) Normal School Description An account of the resource Florence Parsons Isenburg talks about her family farm in Chenango Bridge, NY and the crops they raised, social activities, and her upbringing. She describes how things were done on the farm, including tasks and chores, methods of cleaning, cooking, and farming and what the neighborhood was like. She discusses how farming changed with the advents of installed water systems, bathrooms from outhouses, mail delivery, the first telephone, and electric service. She describes her education and notes that she attended the Cortland Normal School. She discusses her first teaching positions, how the local school system changed while she was there. She details how methods of teaching changed over the years, as well as, how lifestyle changed over time. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recordings 34A; Recording 34B Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Isenburg, Florence Parsons ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-12 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 49:06 Minutes ; 10:58 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/082bc68a6590dc2a5cf37818e5368a0b.mp3 d8f45daa81e327bdd2d0a3a254724a48 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jewell, Anna Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1977-12-27 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47:48 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55951">Interview with Anna Jewell</a> Subject LCSH Jewell, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Motorcycle industry; Typists; Port Dickinson (N.Y.); S. Mills Ely; Dairy Farms; Pickle factory; Honey Bee Dairy Farm Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Collection Interview with: Mrs. Anna Jewell Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 27 December 1977 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood, interviewing Anna Jewell of 171 Robinson Street, Binghamton. The date is December 27, 1977. Mrs. Jewell, you have lived around— Anna: That was when we lived over on the other side of the river. I told you over the phone - I was just a little bit of a girl, but I remember when we went to school. We lived over there about eight years on that farm, and that was owned by—then—by E.W. Conklin. And, uh...um, my father superintended that farm. 'Course there was no Sunrise Terrace then—that was all farmland through there. And, uh, then he fell into a better job—the same kind of job—with Mr. Ely, who was a wholesale grocer. Wanda: Was that Mills Ely? Anna: S. Mills Ely. Here in Binghamton. And he owned that Honey Bee Farm—what was then the Honey Bee Farm. 'Course he's dead years ago...and we lived there - as I said, I lived there, I guess about eleven years—ten or eleven—then I got married. Ah. [clears throat] Wanda: That was quite a showplace, wasn't it? Anna: We lived in that big house up there and that—the house—there used to be a water tank there between the two houses, but I guess that's gone now. I think I didn't remember seeing it the last time I was up that way. And there was—let's see—one, two, three, four, five—five houses that belong on that farm. The big one where we lived and then the hired men, then in the—a what used to be the old pickle factory—years—'course I—it wasn't when I was up there. It was before that—ah—my father had a man—married man living in there—a hired man and he lived in one end of that. The other end was the creamery where they made—they made the first pasteurized milk that was ever sold in Binghamton. And—um—I think he sold it for something like ten cents a quart and people thought that was terrible—(laughter)—imagine buying a quart of milk today for ten cents.  Wanda: That was in the building down over the hill there that's gone, wasn't it? Anna: That was what? Wanda: That was in that building that was down over the edge of the hill? Anna: Yes—yes—that used to be—the end toward Chenango Street used to be a pickle factory. Wanda: Oh. Anna: They made pickles there, in fact there was some there when we first moved there—big vats of them—and uh—but it wasn't running when we moved there. And he had a man that did the creamery work. Made—churned butter and pasteurized the milk and bottled it and everything like that—milk and cream. And they ran two milk wagons and they had a lot of customers in Binghamton that bought it. They used to sell mostly to the lawyers and doctors and professional men. And uh—oh they used to think it was a terrible price—ten cents a quart. Wanda: Delivered. Anna: An awful price. Wanda: How long did you live there? Anna: My folks lived there—um—lemme see—gee I don’t remember—oh my father bought a—he lived there in a—oh I can't tell you the year now—and uh he went down to what was then called Union—it's West Endicott today—and bought a farm. And he didn't know anything but farming. He farmed it all his life. Come from a family of farmers. He had four brothers and they were all farmers. And uh—good ones, too, I might add. Wanda: They must have been. Anna: And uh well, he used to help in the creamery some himself but they had all kinds of machinery there to—in those days you know it was really quite something ya know, ‘cause you didn’t find that very many places.  Wanda: The machinery, you mean? Anna: Yeah, to bottle the milk and all of that. Oh, I don't know as there's anything else of any great interest. This Mr. Ely—they used to be a tower up on uh, I think they called it Mount Prospect in those days. You know the big tall tower up there that he owned. It was—they called it Ely tower and now they have converted it into a—places to rent—they have apartments and I guess maybe some people have bought places there but it was quite a job to get up there. I have a granddaughter that's living there—she just moved there a few months ago and she likes it. Wanda: That's what became Ely Park later? Anna: Yes. That was—it's called Ely Park now—her address is—ah—apartment something or other, Ely Park—Ely Park Apartments and uh I think the government owns some of them. I just don't understand about it but uh—I know she did live over at Chenango Bridge and she had quite a nice apartment there but she had to move because—the man wouldn’t do anything. He kept raising the rent, he wouldn't do anything and uh the toilet was 'bout ready to go through the floor and the water leaked and oh my she had an awful time, so she got a place up there. Wanda: Well this Mr. Ely was quite an influential man in Binghamton at that time, wasn't he? Didn't he own lots of— Anna: He had a big wholesale store—groceries. He was a wholesaler in addition to owning this farm and I guess—he lived on Henry Street. I don't know whether he owned any property in Binghamton or not. I never did know about that, but my father liked him very much. He was awful good to him. Wanda: What was it like growing up on a farm when you were a little girl? What did you have to do? Anna: Well, I didn’t know anything else then. I wouldn't want to go back to it today but—uh—I liked it. When we lived on the other side of the river I was just a little bit of a kid. I was only two and a half when my people come here and of course I—later on when I got old enough to go to school I went to Oak Street School. The kids today, ya know, think they're killed if they can’t—can't have a bus to ride on. If they have to go half a mile or so they have to get on a bus, but— Wanda: How did you get to school? Anna: I walked it. Wanda: To Oak Street? Anna: Except when it was stormy and bad weather my father would take me because—uh—and you spoke about that hotel on the corner of Prospect Street. It's still there as far as I know but it's a gas station today. But in those days it was a—a—a saloon. And uh—I used to be scared to death to go by there when I was afoot and alone, 'cause I was the only one—well they was a boy that lived about a half mile below me that used to go to school, but uh—he didn't very often go with me. Once in a while he would, but uh—most of the time I walked it and I remember one night I was goin' home and I always was delighted to get by that place because if there was anything that I was deathly afraid of it was a drunken man. And this one night—that's the only time I ever knew it to happen—he came out and uh—he saw me coming and he started for me and I—didn't know a soul there, not—well I did when I got up a little farther—I knew a couple of people then, but I thought if I'd just make that house up there I'll run in there until he gets out of sight but he saw me go the other way and he was so drunk he couldn't hardly stand up, so he didn't bother me at all. But you know when they're drunk like that you never know what they will do and uh I thought now if I can just get up to that house I knew the people that lived there. My uncle and aunt lived there in one side of it and uh—two elderly ladies lived in the other part but—uh finally I guess he decided he'd go on and wouldn't molest me. So I waited 'til he got pretty near out of sight and then I started home. I had another half mile to go. Wanda: Boy that's scary. Anna: I don't know what ever become of him but I didn't see any more of him. Wanda: Remember that pond that was Cutler's Pond? That was part of the Conklin farm, wasn't it? Anna: What— Wanda: The pond that became Cutler's Pond? Anna: Oh Cutler's—that was on the Cutler property. Wanda: Oh that wasn't part of your farm? Anna: That was just above where we lived there—the next farm. Yes, I used to a—I think it was John Cutler that lived up there. Ah—and he had a brother that lived across the street and um kids used to skate on that pond. ‘Course I was never allowed to skate. My mother was afraid the ice would break and I'd drown. She almost drowned when she was a little young girl and she was—never—she would never let my sister or I swim or skate or be around the water at all. So—we never knew what those pleasures were. I used to love to watch other people do it. Wanda: Then—a—you finished your schooling at Oak Street, did you? Anna: I went to Oak Street fo—’til I was in the fifth grade I think about—well they didn't have any kindergarten in those days, you know. It was calls the first grade when you started. I was probably six when I started because I was sick a lot when I was a little youngster and I think I was around six when I was there. And they called it the baby class—no kindergarten—baby class—and uh—I think I can remember the teacher I had—I think her name was—what was her name? What was it? But a—the Principal of the school, her name was Morey and they were—she was very very—she was a stickler to have everybody vaccinated in the school and my father would not have my sister or I vaccinated. He just, I don't know why, but he just wouldn't have it. So she came in about once a—every week or two—wanted to know if I'd been vaccinated. I said, “I've told ya every time you've been in here that I'm not vaccinated and I probably won't be,” but she'd still come and ask me. Wanda: Did you ever get vaccinated? Anna: Oh yes, yes, when I got to be a teenager. Then my sister and I both—oh and did mine work—oh I had the sorest arm and I was sicker'n a dog, but it sure did work, but 'course that was—I was all through at Oak Street then. I was probably about 13 or 14 and I was living in Port Dick and uh going to Port Dick School. Wanda: Where was the school then in Port Dick? Anna: Up on a—I believe it was River Street. You know I don't know how long you've been— Wanda: Toward the mill? Anna: Down toward the Mill Street—that way? Anna: Yeah. Yeah. The first street this side of the mill. The other side from here—is called Grant. And uh—the school was just about at the head of that street—off to that direction—school was at that time and uh—it was just two rooms was all there was of the school—one big room and a smaller room where the primary children went but of course I went into the fifth or sixth grade when I got up there because I'd already done—I would think I was in the fifth grade when I left Oak Street and went there. Wanda: Do you remember what you studied then? Anna: In Port Dick? History—physiology—they call it “hygiene” today but in those days it was physiology and I hated it. English—arithmetic ah—ah—that was about it, I guess. I don't remember anything else. I love arithmetic. I was never any good in it but I loved it—oh it was my favorite subject, but I hated physiology. I hated history. Oh geography—yes I loved that. I was always good in geography. Geography and English were—and spelling—were my best subjects. I could spell anything. Still can. (chuckles). Wanda: Good for you. Anna: I think it's worth quite a bit to be a good speller. A lot of people are smart otherwise but can't spell. Anna: That's true. So you got married when you were living in Port Dick? Anna: I was about—oh past twenty-one when I got married and my people still live up there in Port Dick and uh—we got married and lived—we went to housekeeping up on what is now Blanchard Avenue above here. It was called Fremont in those days. That's seventy-some years ago. Wanda: Were there many houses around there then? Anna: Not near as many as there are now. There was—that big house on the corner was there. And there was a—three or four on the side. We lived on the side toward town but they've built up an awful lot since we were here. That—we only lived there about three months. We didn't like it—so we got an—you could get an apartment in those days. But today you can't hardly find one, but we heard of this one on Green Street. We moved down there and we lived there 3 years and probably would have lived there a lot longer, but the man that owned it wanted the rooms for his son. And uh—he waited ‘til I got my housecleaning all done (laugh) and then he come over and told me one day he wanted me—he wanted to—he would like to have the rooms. I said, "Thanks a lot. That’s very nice of you." (laughter). Oh I never—I never was so provoked with anybody in my life. He knew I had cleaned that house. We had a garden too—we had a garden growing. We had that partly planted. And uh—then we moved over on Sturges Street. Wanda: What did your husband do then? Anna: Hmm? Wanda: What did your husband do when you were married? Anna: He worked in a—let me see—when we were married he worked to Babcock’s then late in years he went in business for himself—motor—outboard motor business. He had a store and uh—had a store up here on Chenango Street for a long time and they outgrew that and they moved over up here on Upper Court and that's where they were when he died in ‘61. Wanda: He was connected with Babcock's for many years, wasn't he? I think Al told that. Anna: Yes quite a few—I can't tell you just how many now. I don't remember, but he worked there quite a while before we were married. And then after we were married he was there quite a while—probably seven, eight, nine years something like that—I guess—before he went in business for himself. Oh—he sold motorcycles first. He went in a—had a motorcycle store in State Street right across from the old Bennett Hotel and 'course they kinda went out, you know—not so many people were riding them. Then he got into this motor and boat business. He did pretty good with that—sold Johnson motors and boats. Wanda: Do you remember the old motorcycles? Did you ride with him? Anna: There was a man—a guy by the name of Carver that sold another type of motorcycle and if he could knife my husband he'd do it, every time. He'd get around people, you know, and tell them just how much better his machine was and oh he was—he'd even lie to sell something. He was that type. And then he got in the boat and motor business and there was another guy did the same thing to him. They seemed to be after him for some reason. But he did pretty good with that. Oh I don't know—we lived in several different places before we finally bought a place on Judson Street and we lived there forty, forty-one, let's see—we moved there in, ah, ‘21. In 1921 we moved there and I left there a year after my husband died and he died in ‘61 and I stayed 'til the following July in ‘62. And then I went up on Bevier Street and my, ah, this son—and—uh—three—three of his children. Wanda: Well let's see what can we—uh oh I was wondering if you would ah—if you can remember contrasts about keeping house and keeping your—cooking and doing your household duties. What was it like? Anna: Well I kept it just like anybody else would, I guess. Wanda: What did you have to work with when you were young? Anna: Oh you mean machinery? Not much of anything at first. Ah—'course that was—ah—when I was first married, we never heard of electric cleaners, you know, we didn't have such things. But I finally had one of those—wore one out and got another one. And uh I guess that's about it. I never had anything like an electric dishwasher or…I washed my dishes by hand all my life and still am. Ah—I can't think of anything else. I got tired of sweeping—oh I swept with a broom a good many years, before I got a sweeper. We didn't have too much money, you know. And I had to go kinda easy. But soon's we could afford it we got a cleaner. In fact I had two or three. I'd wear one out 'n’ have to get another one. Wanda: How many children did you have? Anna: Just two. Two boys. The one that lives in Florida and this one here. Wanda: Well I imagine Binghamton has changed quite bit since you used to shop downtown—I say I imagine Binghamton's changed quite a bit downtown? Anna: Oh yes. You know I don't know where I am—I haven't been down—I couldn't tell you when I've been downtown. I can't remember. But anytime I have been down I didn't know where I was. It's all so different where the Arena is there and the Marine Midland Bank and all those buildings. It looks so different some way to me. It don't look natural. And I s’pose when they get this—uh—mall—if they ever do—it'll look very different then than what it does now. I think it'd be a fine thing. Just because I'm old I can't have a—I try to keep up with the times. I don't let my brain wither away. (laughter).  Wanda: Good. good. You don't live in the past, do you? Anna: No. No. What good does it do to live in the past? The past is gone. I have very pleasant memories, but a, other than that I—I had a very good husband. He was always very good to me. They wasn't anything he wouldn't get for me, and trouble with him he couldn't always afford it. (chuckle). We had to do without. Wanda: Well that doesn't hurt sometimes, does it? Anna: His people lived up at Chenango Bridge. Wanda: Now that was the Jewell that lived in the old Macomber house, right? Anna: No. Brick. The old brick house that used to be up there. I don't know how long you've lived up around there, but— Wanda: All my life. Anna: Oh, have you? Wanda: Most of it, yeah. Anna: Well do you remember the brick house then just this side the railroad bridges there? Wanda: Oh yes yes. Anna: That's where they lived. Wanda: Oh yes. Anna: They used to come down 'n’ get my older son, he was their first grandchild and did they worship him. Oh boy he could do no harm now I'm telling you. But this one they never—well his grandfather died when he was only—he don't even remember him. He say he can faintly remember him, but I doubt that he would—just a little past two when he died but the other boy was three years older and he of course remembers him. And uh—his grandfather used to come down and get him, take him up there. He was the only grandchild they had, the first and only, and boy you think they didn't worship and adore him. And he was so good—he was an awful good kid so—ah—he used to have—used to drive a wagon. They called it “Pickle Wagon.” I don't know where they ever got that name for it, but the seat was high and he'd get that little fella, he was about three at the time. I didn't—I didn't like to have him come up and go up there but—uh—his grandfather and grandmother wanted him—so I couldn’t be mean, you know. I'd let him go. So they'd be driving out the street and he was such a little fellow and my father-in-law was big—he weighed 280-some pounds before he was sick, and you can imagine, and the seat was high like this, you know, and that little fellow sittin' beside him—now if that wasn't a picture. Wanda: What was your maiden name? Anna: Haney, H-A-N-E-Y. That—you don't hear it very often. I guess there's one or two here in town, I don't know whether they're related, if they are I don't know, very distantly. My relatives all lived in Pennsylvania. 'Course I don't have many left anymore. I've got two cousins that live up in Elizabeth Church Manor. I've got another cousin that lives on the south side—on Park Ave—and I've got one in Vestal and one in Ithaca and that's the extent of my relatives. So I'm glad I've got a big family. Wanda: Yes, it's a blessing. Anna: That kind of keeps me going, ya know, I'd probably if I didn't have anybody like that around I'd probably just lay down and die. (laughs). Wanda: They keep you sharp, don't they? Anna: Oh—I love to have them come. And those kids are such good kids—awful good kids.That little Chrissy is something. Boy am I crazy about him. He talks to me over the phone once in a while. Wanda: He talks like an old man. Anna: And Allan, if Allan’s home, and if he isn't Sandy usually gets him, and the last time I called up I think I talked to Allan and he said, “Wait a minute, Gram,” he said, “You wanna talk to Chrissy?”  I said, “I'd love to.”  So he came to the phone and he said ah, “Hello Grandma.”  I said, “Hi, Chrissy,How are you?' “Fine.” So just before he left the phone he said, “I love you,Grandma.” I said, “Well that's nice to know. I love you, too.” (chuckle). I think his father put him up to it. (laughter). Wanda: He's so smart. Anna: Aw he's a cute little thing. Wanda: Did you ever work before you were married? Anna: Hmm? Wanda: Did you ever work before you were married? Anna: Yes—I worked in a—oh I worked in Barrett Brothers’ music store for about 2 or 3 years and every winter I worked in the City Treasurer's office in getting out the tax bills. Typing them. I worked there fourteen years. Just a couple of weeks in the wintertime when the—January, you know. Coldest part of the year of course, always. Wanda: That was where? In the courthouse? Anna: That was about it, I guess. Oh, I worked in the church office up here. I'm a member of the North Presbyterian Church and I worked there in the office about 8 years, I think. Just afternoons, but that was it. And—my father and mother came and lived with us after—oh—after we bought the place on Judson Street. So of course I had a place to leave my two boys. But they were quite a good size by that time. And a—I'd go down and take—the minister lived on the same street—he lived there on Judson Street and I'd stop in there and take dictation and then I'd go down and get out the letters or whatever he had for me to do. Wanda: Well you were a secretary then? Where did you learn to do that? Anna: Oh, I took a course in Lowell Business School years ago. Wanda: Oh. Anna: When I was about eighteen, I guess I was then. And that's a long time ago. Wanda: That's something that's changed a lot over the years, isn't it? Anna: Oh yes, 'course there's none of them alive that was in there then. Mr.—the Bloomer—Mr. Bloomer was the Principal or whatever you call him. And a—his daughter was one of the teachers—and seems to me he had a son that was in it too in some—he had quite a family. He had two or three daughters and a couple or three sons. Five or six children he had. They're all dead and gone, I guess. Wanda: What kind of typewriters did you have then? Anna: Remington. Wanda: Big—tall things? Anna: Yeah. Remington mostly. That's what they had mostly there in the school. And—um—I think maybe a few Royals and—a—what's that other one? Ah—it begins with “S”—can't think of the name of it now. That's an old make. They had some of those but I never—I always worked on a Remington because I was—they were easier to operate and I got used to them and I liked them. Wanda: Did you do—a—bookkeeping? Or anything else? Anna: No, I never had any bookkeeping. I just did the—I took shorthand and typing, was all I took. I was always kinda sorry I didn't take bookkeeping because in those days you could get a better job. I mean more money if you could do both, but I never took it up. Wanda: Do you remember how much you worked for in those days? Anna: How much what? Wanda: How much your pay was, the week or a month. Anna: I think in Barrett's—I think it was—ah, something like twelve dollars a week. And—a—when I was at the church—ah—I was paid by the hour. I don't remember what I got there. Wanda: But that was a pretty good wage for a woman, wasn't it—then? Anna: Well it was—nothing today. It'd be nothing today—you couldn't even live on it and when I—when I typed tax bills ah—'course I never was the speediest of them, but I tried to be accurate and not make too many mistakes, because that's really what counts in that business, y'know. Those tax bills have to be absolutely all right. And mine were. I made very few mistakes because they put me in Checking. The last two or three years I was there. They have—all have to be checked to make sure they're absolutely correct 'fore they're ever mailed out. ‘Course now they have—a—machines, I guess that—uh—put them out. They don't have the extra help anymore. Wanda: Was that—did you work in the old courthouse then? Anna: No, I worked at City Hall up—ah—up on the second floor it was. Yeah. Oh I loved it there. I used to look forward to that—just like a party to me. Got me out, ya know, and away from home and I'd go to lunch with the girls and—which I couldn't do when I was home. And it was a change 'n’ I really looked forward to it every year. The only part I didn't like was getting out so early in the morning and waitin' around for streetcars. I've forgot what year I went there. I had a niece that worked there, and she had a steady job there. She worked there quite some time. But I think I was there before she was. I think I—I had a friend that had charge of the typists and the checking and all that kind of work and so she got—uh—put in a good word for me and I got in there. I worked there fourteen years so I guess my work was all right. Wanda: I guess so. Anna: 'Bout two or three weeks every winter. Coldest part of the winter—in January—uh—no it was in December 'cause they had to get their taxes out by the first of January, you see. Wanda: And that was the County tax office? Anna: No, the City. It was all City. Then—uh—I think the last couple years I was there I checked. So that give me a little longer job. I was there an extra week or so in that. They put me in that. I love typing. I just used to love it. I couldn't—I'd—today I'd have to do what they call the hunt and peck system. (laughter). Hy son's got a typewriter here and—I—well, haven't tried it but I know I wouldn't have any speed. I haven't touched a typewriter in years. Wanda: Well, if you were accurate once you probably would still be just as accurate. Anna: Well I couldn't do any other way. I can't do anything slipshod when I know figures, ya know, have to be accurate. Tax bills had to be right to the penny. And—uh—filing—I did filing too. And if you think that isn't something—the First Ward over there on Clinton Street, names this long, ohhh—what names—terrible—and they've got to be alphabetically filed and let me tell you, you've got to stop to study—you've got to know your alphabet good. (laughs). Oh I used to love—I used to love it down there. I hated to—I hated to see the time come when I was through and didn't have any more work ’til next year. It would only be about two or three weeks. Well, when I checked and filed and did that I had more work to do. I was there maybe a week or two longer then, but just typing—we were all through in a couple of weeks. 'Course they'd have about—probably eight girls typing all the same time, and let me tell you it was something to hear those typewriters all buzzing around there. Wanda: Then your work at the music store was secretarial stuff too—writing letters and that? Anna: Well I guess that was what you'd call it. The church work was more on that order. And they got out a letter every once a month. They used to have a big men's class up there. They had about a hundred members in those days. That’s back in the twenties—and uh—I had all those letters to mail out. I got the—oh they had a mimeograph—so it wasn't so bad to get the letters out, 'cause I'd put them right through that in no time. But I had the envelope to address and that took quite a while. But I liked it—I—was very happy with it, I worked for two different ministers. The one man left or got another charge somewhere else, or didn't he retire? I've forgotten which now. Then this other younger man came, I worked for him a while too. Wanda: Did you help with your husband's business too? Anna: Yes. I used to write letters for him, but at home—I had one of those little folding typewriters at home he bought me, and uh—I used to write his letters quite often for him. Wanda: Well you were quite a career girl, weren't you? Anna: Well I don't know as you'd call me a career girl. We moved around a lot until we bought that place on Judson Street. We were married in 1908 and we didn't buy that place till ‘21. And in those thirteen years I wanna tell you, we moved a few times. Oh my—I never got so sick and tired of moving in my life. We lived on—well as I told you—started on Fremont Ave., Green Street, and then Sturges, and Ogden. Then we moved on Chenango Street. My uncle bought a two-family house up there on Chenango Street and we lived downstairs there when my boys were small. And uh—let's see, I don't know where else we lived—oh Moffitt Ave., two years. Oh my—I tell you I was glad to get a place where I could stay and I stayed there 41 years on Judson Street. And I probably would still a’ been there, but they took the street, you know, and put an overhead through there. And why they took that street I'll never know, because Sturges Street is a much older street. The houses on that street are all—almost all old. Cary Street is old. But no, they had to take Judson. Wanda: So you had to sell then? Anna: Hmmm? Wanda: Is that why you had to sell your house? Anna: Did I what? Wanda: You had to sell your house because of the road? Anna: Ahm—they took the—they take you for your property. The State. Or whoever put the road through, or overhead. But ah—I said I don't know why they had to go through this street. Oh dear I hated to leave there. After you live in a place forty years, ya know, it begins to seem like home. That's the longest I ever lived anywhere. Went right straight through from 1921 to 1962, and that's 41 years. Oh I loved it and I knew everybody there and they's lovely people. I— awful nice ones—over here you—I don't know a living human being to speak to except my landlady on the other side. There’s nobody around here. They don't neighbor—this is a bridal shop on this side—a dentist across the street—church on this corner 'n’ the chicken house and the shoe repair shop down here. Now there's nothing around here, it's really a business section and I said to somebody not long ago, I said, “I never lived in a place where I just couldn't neighbor with people and didn't know anybody, as this place.” There used to be a lady that lived next door here that was very friendly—very nice—but she got—uh—I think she developed arthritis or something and doctor told her she'd have to go where she didn’t have to go up and down stairs. But she had the duplex—she's on the second floor over here. But she lived there. Now—now they rent the two top floors. There’s two floors up there. And uh—the downstairs is all the wedding shop. I guess they cater more to bridal gowns than anything. Wanda: How old are you now, Mrs. Jewell? Anna: How? Wanda: How old are you now? Anna: How old am I? I was 91 last October. Wanda: Yeah? Well you've had quite a life so far, haven't you? Anna: Oh I—well I—I can't tell. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anna Jewell Subject The topic of the resource Jewell, Anna -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Binghamton (N.Y.); Farmers -- Interviews; Farms -- Interviews; Motorcycle industry; Typists; Port Dickinson (N.Y.); S. Mills Ely; Dairy Farms; Pickle factory; Honey Bee Dairy Farm Description An account of the resource Anna Jewell discusses her childhood living on the Honey Bee Dairy Farm owned by S. Mills Ely in Port Dickinson. This farm also was the site of a pickle factory. She talks about her local education, getting married, her husband's business selling motorcycles, the homes they lived in and taking care of them, her grandchildren and her jobs. She describes working as a typist for the City of Binghamton Treasurer's Office assisting with typing tax bills and later as a secretary at the North Presbyterian Church for several years. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 35 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jewell, Anna ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-27 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 47:48 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/21aba41edbd6083cdabbd1e9de35a5f7.mp3 6dc71747fd45b780b50d04ec13a399d6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Johnson, Harmon; Johnson, Harold Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wood, Wanda Date of Interview 1978-01-31 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:31 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55954">Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson</a> Subject LCSH Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Harmon and Harold Johnson Interviewed by: Wanda Wood Date of interview: 31 January 1978 Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Harmon and Harold Johnson on Airport Road in Chenango Bridge, and the date is the thirty-first of January, 1978. Now, you Johnson brothers have operated the Chenango Bridge Airport since the mid-thirties, and we'd like to know a little something about the history of the operation or any remembrances that you have which you'd like to put down on this tape. So who wants to start first? Harmon: I'll say that I got the flying bug in about 1930. I went for a ride in a an old Tri-motor Ford at the old Bennett Airport, and from then on decided flying was for me and a I saved my money and in 1932 learned to fly with Ed Link at the old Bennett Airport. He had a school there, I soloed out in about the first of May and got a private license in June. At that time it only took ten hours to get a license and the inspector never rode with you. He stood on the ground and watched you. I think he was afraid to ride with you. We didn't have that much time. Wanda: [laughter] That's funny. Harmon: Ah, only a joke, I guess, but, ah…they didn't ride with you. They stood on the ground and watched you. After that I flew along with Ed's airplane and got a limited commercial license, and then a couple of years later Harold and I went—my brother and I went in together and bought an airplane, and we brought it up to the Chenango Bridge Airport. There we carried a lot of passengers. Everybody wanted to ride, and we'd take 'em. I guess a dollar a head. Two at a time. They had the Italian field day over here at the old airport and when they had that these people would come from all over—like a big fair. We'd carry a lot of people—just ride around the field. Wanda: Italian field day here, at this airport? Harmon: Yeah. Umhmm. Harold: They'd have them across the river sometimes, too— Harmon: After that. Harold: —in the pasture there. It was like an island over there they used to have. Wanda: So then, Harold. You started to…fly? Harold: Yeah, I learned to fly on the old American Eagle biplane that we bought together in partnership. My dad helped us out. We didn't have money enough to buy it, so we—the three of us went in. Gave him his money back when we sold it. Harmon: Well I'd say this. We paid $600.00 for it, which was a lot of money then. Harold: I'd forgotten what we paid for it. Harmon: $600.00. Two hundred apiece. Harold: I learned to fly in that and soloed it, and took a private flight test. And I—the inspector came in to Endicott and I went down to take the flight test on that airplane to get a private license and I came in and he was riding with me. He thought I was too high to shoot for a spot-landing on the airport. He grabbed it away from me and slipped it. And I had to put the power right back on, and drag it in because it was gonna hit short of the field, you know. The inspector did that. I always remember that. He slipped it too much. It was down a hundred feet short of the end of the runway if I hadn't dragged it down, but he just laughed. He didn't say nothing. Gave me my license. I met that guy in Washington. Down there when I was flying in there for some—probably E.J. or somebody at Washington International Airport, and the guy came walking out and wanted to know if I was Johnson from Binghamton and talked with me for a while. He was one of the wheels in the F.A.A. at that time. Wanda: Oh, he went up the line. Harold: He's probably retired by now. Maybe he's dead, I don't know, but that was a good many years ago. I got the—I went about a year using a private license. I got the transport in ‘37. That was after we had our C-3 Aeronca. I took that to Ithaca for my transport license. Wanda: Oh yes, we want to put in here about some of the a—different planes that you've handled and owned and so forth here at Chenango Bridge. Harmon: We started out with the old Eagle and we sold that. Or Harold started out, actually—I'll take that back. After we sold the Eagle you bought the C-3 Aeronca,didn't you? Harold: The old Razorback. Harmon: On your own. I didn't have any money. Harold: That was about a 1930 or '31 model airplane. Harmon: And didn't have it any length of time at all and lost it in the fire over here—it burned up. Harold: Probably six months or something like that. Harmon: Yeah, we lost it. And then we went back together and Jesse Haskell, who was the owner of the airport, said, “If someone wants to fly, I'll build them a hangar.” So he knocked together a little 2x4 hangar out there—a cheap thing. Harold: For one airplane. Cheap. Harmon: For one little airplane. Wanda: Oh. Harmon: And nailed some contact supports together and that's—about what it was, a real cheap-built thing. And we started out then teaching students to fly on our C-3 Aeronca. Later on, we got the Aeronca dealership for the Aeronca K, which wasn't much of an airplane. And they changed over in a couple of years and came out with the Aeronca, what they called the Aeronca Chief, which was a good little airplane in its day. It was hard to beat. It was very comfortable riding, very quiet, and good performance for the horsepower that was on it. Wanda: And you paid how much for the first Aeronca Chief? Harmon: First Aeronca Chief was right around fifteen hundred—fifteen-fifty or something like that, if I recall. Wanda: And what are they now? Harmon: Today if that airplane was built, being built today, would be right around $10,000.00, just about. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Maybe even more than that. Maybe twelve? Wanda: So you had dealerships with the Aeronca and the—what's the other one? Harmon: Piper. Wanda: Piper. And then a—how about the students and the teaching part of it? You both were—have been instructors all this time. Harmon: Yes. We got commercial licenses that you have to have to have an instructor's rating and got our instructor's rating as we went along. And, uh, taught for many years. Seems like we always had about all the students we could carry. And I worked a lot of the time at another job, and was always kept pretty busy. Harold: Before we built that office building that's there now, we had a little shack out in back of there for an office. It had a phone in it and a little stove in it and a desk in it and Doris worked there. But we had appointments so far ahead that... There was so many students wanted to fly. You couldn't take care of them, you know. If you wanted a half-hour on a weekend you'd have to book it at least two weeks ahead. To get in a half-hour lesson. Harmon: And the weather was against us too, of course. We couldn't fly students when the weather was bad, and this really pushed them in together and— Harold: Them old airplanes was awful light, you know. You couldn't fly with very much wind with them, with a student. They flobbed around a lot. They was real light airplanes. Wanda: I want to say I admire you for flying with students anyway. There's a certain amount of risk involved there, isn't there? Harmon: Oh there's bound to be. Even if you don't get rattled, and stay with it while you're in trouble. Wanda: And this was mostly during, after the War that you were so busy? Harmon: Yes. Before the War and right up through the War and on beyond the end of it. And then as the economy—after the War everything let down, if you remember right, and— Harold: About '48 it started lettin'— Harmon: '48 it gradually went down. About '50 it was really bad and so I left. I couldn't make a living anymore and I left and went in industry and stayed there until I retired. And we ran the airport as a sideline after Harold left, about 1957 or '58. I continued on with three airplanes. Two Tri-pacers and an Aeronca Champ and it got too much for me. As I stayed and my duties got greater and greater and I got into supervision and I just couldn't handle so much. And I was getting older, too. So I sold one airplane after another and finally wound up with just one airplane that I've run now for the last ten or twelve years. And now I'm down to no students at all and my own airplane. I keep still, a lot of other people's airplanes. Still run the airplane, airport. Mow a lot of grass and plow an awful lot of snow—boy. For nothing, I guess. Wanda: And Harold, you, you tell a little about when you—a—flew for Endicott-Johnson. Harold: Yes. After things got quiet here, in order to help out, I, I flew for G.A.F. for about four or five years. That was just on a monthly retainer. I'd fly when they wanted me to. Sometimes I didn't hear from them for a month and then sometimes I'd make a trip to California and back with their airplane. They had two—a Beach Bonanza and a 180-Cessna. At other times they had Tri-pacers, different things I flew for them, but they kept those two for a long time. Then E.J.’s—Asa Dodge was the pilot for E.J.’s. Wanda: Asa Dodge? Harold: Yeah, and we knew him well—in fact I'd given him some dual years ago. And he was a—he'd been flying for several years for E.J.’s different airplanes. They bought a brand new Aero-Commander-680 with $20,000.00 worth of electronic gear in it. In them days, that was a lot. And they wanted to have two pilots. So I was, I left G.A.F. and went to work for them full time. Wanda: And you're a—are you teaching now at all? Harold: Hmm? Wanda: Are you teaching now at all? Harold: No. I haven't done any flying in ten years. Wanda: ls that a fact? Harmon: I've told him, "Hey, come around and fly my Tri-pacer,” but [he] don't want to do it. Harold: If I could afford a nice twin-engine airplane like a new Aztec or something like that for myself, and afford to operate it, I'd have one and fly it. Wanda: Yes. Harold: But, ah…I'm not much interested in flying little machines around locally. I did that too much. Many thousands of hours of it. Wanda: How many hours do you suppose you, both of you have got logged in this? Harold: I don't know. Got twenty-some thousand—I don't know what it was. Harmon: I have logged around ten-thousand and have flown probably many more than that I never logged. Wanda: Yes. Harmon: For years, I never bothered with log. Too much of a nuisance to make out a log book, I guess. At the end of the day you're tired out, 'n’ you go home…forget it. Harold: Yes, for the first ten-thousand I logged most all the time. Where if I didn't, my wife did it for me. She kept it up, you know.Then hit and miss. When I'd work for E.J.’s we had to—we had time to go to the airplanes, and the same way with G.A.F., they had to have the time, you know, but just—flyin' over here and half the time I didn't bother to log it. Wanda: And, and you've always done your, your own maintenance on these planes? Harmon: Pretty much, yes. Harold: When we weren't flying in the wintertime that's how we got by. We used to build airplanes for other people. We used to build wrecks, and overhaul the engines, fix our own up too, during the wintertime get 'em ready for to keep them during the summer, you know? That was the idea. We had a heated shop, heated to a certain extent, enough so that we could work in it you know.We'd have sometimes two or three airplanes torn apart. I remember one guy that bought a wrecked airplane. He bought pieces here and there. Remember Eddie Walker? Harmon: Yeah. Harold: He made an airplane out of it—and he flew it away. There was some pieces gone. I remember splicing wood spars that was broke right off—splice 'em and glue 'em, you know, clear 'em all up, get them inspected—flew 'em that way. We had the tail end off one airplane, and the front end off another, but as long as we could get 'em and make 'em fly— Harmon: The F.A.A. came in, you know. We had to take the airplane to the F.A.A. inspector and have it inspected by them. And they would approve it— Harold: They had to inspect it before, before it was covered, though, you know. Inside and then afterwards and— Harmon: We'd have to contact them, and they came here to the airport and checked—looked them over, and OK, and then we could cover them. Wanda: Mmm. There's probably a lot more rules and regulations than a—when you first started out. Harmon: Oh, it's terrible anymore. Wanda: Anything interesting there? Harmon: Anymore there's so many rules and regulations that the F.A.A. themselves don't know. They gotta go get the book and get it out and read the book on it. You couldn’t possibly remember them all. No way. It's got to be the most complicated thing that ever was, in my book. Harold: In fact, now I'm miles behind on the regulations. I don't even try to keep up with them. After ten years, the heck with it. Harmon: I'm sure a lot of it I'm not up on, but I, I go to school every two years ah—to a refresher—three days—24 hours of classroom and get my instructor's rating renewed and that—updates me again, to a certain extent, but I guess nobody can remember all the regs that you've got today. Harold: Requirements for a license have changed a tremendous amount since we learned to fly. Wanda: What were the requirements when you first flew? Harmon: In fact, that only—we had to have ten hours to be able to fly around the patch and that was it. Harold: You could carry passengers. Harmon: Yeah. They stood on the ground and watched ya. You took a little written test on the rules and regulations. Ten questions, practically nothing to it, and the— Harold: Write them out with pencil, and throw it away. Harmon: The inspector told you whether you passed that or not, and then he stood on the ground and watched ya. And you went out and did some—figure eights or—I took—I went down to the old Bennett Airport to take my flight test and the guy had, he busted the airplane. He landed so hard, it…that it had spread the landing gear, distorted th—some of the tubing on the bottom side—we couldn't fly it anymore. So my instructor said, "C 'mon, we’ll go to Tri-cities and catch the inspector. He's down there—or he's going there. We'll catch him this afternoon and get you a flight test on another airplane." Which I'd never flown. A pusher-type airplane, Curtis Pusher. So he checked me out in the airplane and we went down there and he let me go in that airplane, and I flew it around the patch and made a few landings and done some turns around the water tower there, where the railroad track went through and they had a little stop there where they put on water. I turned around that tank and something else and came back and landed and he gave me my license. Next day, I took you for a ride. [laughter] Harold: That's the only time I ever flew out of that field down there. I flew with him. Wanda: And that was the Tri-Cities Field—the old Tri-Cities Airport that you’re telling about? Harold: They didn't call it “Tri-Cities” at that time. Harmon: It was known as Endicott Airport. Harold: It was Endicott Airport at that time. It was right along the road—by the—between the Main Street and the railroad tracks on the west side of Endicott. Harmon: The Endicott owned it by themselves. Johnson City and Binghamton were not in on it. It was just Endicott Airport period. Then when they moved to where they are now, some years later— Harold: There was no true runway or anything. It was just a field, you know, just a grass field is all. Harmon: At that time they didn't do any flyin’—they didn't plow the runways or nothing—they just forgot it. Harold: Most airplanes was open airplanes then, you couldn't fly much in the winter anyway—couldn't stand it. They closed 'em. Wanda: Have you ever done any chartering flights? Harmon: Yes. When we were at the airport full time makin' a living, we bought ourselves a nice Stinson. We bought it from Dr. Moore in Endicott. It was almost new. It was $3,000. We did a lot of charter work with that airplane. Harold: We lost that in the fire. Wanda: Mmm. Harmon: Yeah, we failed to say that in nineteen fifty—five? Coulda been right—we burned out over here. Harold: Four. Harmon: Fifty-four. We burned out over here and lost—practically everything we had. We had no insurance. Harold: Labor Day weekend. Harmon: We don't know actually what caused the fire, but there was a man there working on his air lane and he started it somehow. He never would say and we never made him. Smoking or with a, not covering a light bulb. So we started up again, with one little airplane, built it up again to where I had three airplanes and did—a lot of students then but it got too heavy for me with my job. And I wasn't about to quit a pretty good job and try to make a livin' flyin' again. Not off that airport anyway, so—gradually sold them off to one. Wanda: This airport, after it started in 1923, it was—there was a lot of activity here, wasn't there? Harmon: Yes. As I remember it being a kid coming up here, at times when they had the—like the Ford Air Show and the fly-ins, there was a lot of activity there. And they did a lot of charter work with those old airplanes out of here. I've heard Mr. Haskell, who is long deceased, tell about it. And they were actually good pilots in those days. They had some pretty good airplanes, too. Some of the business men of the area, of Chenango Bridge and Port Crane, put the money in the field and a—do you remember the names? Harold: Macomber was one of them. Wanda: Yeah, Theodore Macomber. Harmon: And there was another one— Harold: There was a fellow by the name of Rowe, R-O-W-E. Carl Rowe. Harmon: He was manager of the airport. Harold: He run the—he was the instigator of it, really. Harmon: And there was a man from Sanitaria Springs who had a lot of money, a lumber dealer. Wanda: Cushman, was it? Harmon: I believe so. Something like that. If it wasn't his name, it was something like it. Used to hear Mr. Haskell— Harold: I don't remember that one. Harmon: —tell us about him, tell his name. Harold: Do you remember Myron Baird? Harmon: Yeah. Wanda: Well what were some of the other activities that you remember about—any special stories you want to tell about it? Harold: You didn't get about Ed Link's flying signs on there, probably. Wanda: No. Let's do that. You said he had a—designed a—an advertising sign that— Harold: A—he'd a—dreamed it up and made, on a high-wing airplane he made a low wing out of square frames, about 8 or 9 or 10 of 'em. Each one would make a letter. And he used a paper roller out of his player piano. He was in the player piano business, his father was, Link pianos they made. He had the holes in that paper set up so that it would make a sign light up any letters that he wanted on it. He'd fly around at night and it would light up. I remember he had a contract with Spaulding's. He had enough letters to make the word SPAULDING across it. He'd light up SPAULDING, when it would go off he'd light up CAKE, go off and he'd light up CRULLERS, and go off. And he’d fly low over the city, see? And he took contracts in Cortland and Syracuse, and Philadelphia, and all around the country. I don't know if he had one for New York or not. But he had three of those airplanes fixed up that way at different times. That's what he was doin' for, for an income. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: The piano business was pretty bad. They gradually closed it up, but then he dreamed up the Link trainer which was half a player piano too. He invented that. Had the bellows that they used out of player pianos. Some bellows that moved different things—he had 'em to push the trainers around. That's what moved them around. He used a vacuum pump with suction and pressure to push them trainers. Harmon: When I learned to fly with Link he still had the piano factory down on Water Street and in this factory he had a room set up where he had ground school. And two of the trainers that he'd built. And they looked a little bit like an airplane. They had wings on 'em and a little fuselage, tail assembly. All worked, and before we soloed out we had to have time in those trainers. And I had so much on the instrument trainer, so much on the—we called it the “bump” trainer. You'd get in and turn it on. It would sit there for a second or two and then it would dive off one way and you had to correct, and on the wall he had a light. And on the nose of the trainer was a—tatting [sic]—what would you call it? Harold: Gun sight. A gun sight. Harmon: Yeah, like a gun sight, or a ring. And you'd look through that ring at that light and keep it in the light. And it would duck off sideways and you'd control it and bring it back and this was how you—it helped you to control an airplane after you got in the air. Harold: You were fightin' rough air to keep this thing on the target. Wanda: Well was it essentially the same feeling that you had in a plane? Harmon: A little bit. Yes. It helped. It…it did. Harold: The nose went up or down and the wings went up or down. It rocked both ways on both axles. And turned also—three axles. Harmon: But it was from the pianos that he designed this. And this—like Harold said—later on was the C-3 'blue box' as the military called it, and they built a tremendous amount of 'em for all the countries in the world used them, that were in the War. Harold: They put a hood over the thing so you couldn't see out, with instruments in it. Simulated instruments. Harmon: I'm pretty sure, certain it was before World War II that Ed Link and his wife went to Japan and the Japs bought some of them. Harold: Yeah, they bought two or three of them. Herb Chamberlain went over there. Wanda: Might have had a pretty good market over there. Harold: It's just hearsay, but they said Herb Chamberlain went over there and the Japs had taken one of them trainers completely apart—every piece out of it, and they couldn't get it back together again. He went over there and worked on it to get it, to get to work again. Wanda: We could have lost the War. Did he make some of those early trainers in Cortland, did you say? Harmon: Yes. He sort of got disenchanted I think, with the city of Binghamton. They gave him a rough time, this area did. Mobil Oil was one of them. He wouldn't buy Mobil no how, for many, many years, because they gave him a rough time. I guess he owed them some money, couldn't pay it and they wouldn't go along with him. But anyway he left here, went to Cortland and was up there several years. He left this area while I was learning to fly and I followed him to Cortland and drove up there and flew his airplane for two or three years in completing what education I got from Link's school. And a—while there he progressed rapidly as we moved into World War Il and made many many trainers there and probably got his first financial footing there. Got really started there. Then— Harold: He moved back down here on the corner of Gaines and Front Street. Wanda: Gaines? Harold: Yeah, on the corner of Gaines St. and Front St. He had that factory in there and that was about—just before the War and they had a big contract. That Casey Jones in New York was involved in it. Sold them a military contract and they were instrument trainers. They were all instrument trainers, nothing else. They made a lot of improvements. They had a fellow by the name of Lokrantz. Gunnie Lokrantz was an electronics wizard and he was from I.B.M., but Link hired him and he had a lot to do with it. I used to go down there nights. I was a sign painter and I lettered their crates for them. Ship them all over the world. He had me put the letters on the crates by hand, you know, to send them out. They had big wood boxes, like piano boxes you know? Big ones with parts of the trainer in 'em. Harmon: That was the old Red Dot cigar factory on the corner. Wanda: Corner of Gaines and Front. Harmon: There's a bar and grill or something in now—now Front St. is off—you couldn't go that way. He moved from there over in—I guess it was the Hubbard, Eldridge and Miller furniture factory. Over on the Brandywine dump. It was built where the dump was or after the dump was in there. It used to go down through the hollow there across the creek and over to that factory. And it was a large flat brick building and he moved into that from Gaines St. and then from there he moved on up to the old—truck factory down here. Larrabee Truck in Hillcrest. Wanda: Oh, that's where Larrabee Truck was. Harold: I remember when they built Larrabee trucks there. I remember seein' 'em. They weren't much good, but they built quite a lot of them. Harmon: Well. We say they weren't much good, but for their day, they were…they— Harold: They had a chain drive on the rear wheel, some of 'em did. Chains—like a bicycle chain only a big one—on the side, you know? Sprockets on 'em. Gwenn [Mrs. Harmon Johnson]: Isn't that one sitting down here on the Brandywine? Harmon: No, that's a Lynn. That's a crawler-type truck. It has crawlers on the back and a—wheels in front. Lynn Tractor of Morris. Harold: World War II vintage, or something like that. Harmon: Lynn Tractor built quite a few of those in World War II and then they stopped. Wanda: Well then, to get back to this airport, have you covered just about everything on activities that went on around here? Do you remember any of the show pilots or stunt pilots, and that sort of thing? Can you speak about the Waco—that was Waco Taperwing? Harold: That Taperwing? Cy Bittner was traveling around the country with that one to all the air shows. Harmon: He was the airline’s pilot—or airmail pilot. Airlines weren't flying yet. He was the airmail pilot and he worked out of Albany. And on his time off he used to go around the country to the air shows doing aerobatics and he had this airplane all fixed up with chrome wires and real fancy. He was an expert pilot. He was—finished himself off long ago. Harold: There's some more of them pilots used to come here. I can't remember their names. I remember that one—with Harold Johnson with the Tri-motor Ford, that I saw perform in Syracuse, but— Wanda: Did you say something about Roscoe Turner—being here? Harmon: Yes. Back prior to our being over at the airport and I was up here on a bicycle, I guess—I was not old enough to even fly yet—they had the Ford Air Tour went across the nation. And it stopped at Chenango Bridge Airport. And it's possible at that time it was called the Binghamton Airport— Harold: Yeah, it was. Harmon: —because there was no airport at Bennett Airport or Tri-Cities either, this was it. It was the first airport around here. And a, Roscoe Turner was in the group flying a Gee-Bee. All of their airplanes were designed to fly out of small airports. Today our airport is awfully small. For the airports, or airplanes that are built, built today, our airport is too small, for most of them. They need concrete runways and a lot of it. Wanda: Yeah. How long are these runways now? Harmon: Twenty-one fifty is our longest runway. Wanda: Mmhmm. That's the East-West. Harmon: Yeah. Harold: You can't do much nowadays with less than Three-thousand or Thirty-five hundred. Minimum, ya know. That's what Tri-Cities is: Three-thousand. 3000. Wanda: There's no way to expand here any more is there, either? Harmon: No. It costs a lot of money. Unless you get Federal money or Federal help, it's pretty near impossible to run an airport today. Many, many little airports around the country are going by the wayside. They can't survive. Taxes are so high on the land and a—they get no help from anybody. It's open to the public but they don't want to put one dime in it, unless it's owned by the public. If it was a—a community-owned airport, like the—if Chenango Bridge or the town owned it, then you could get Federal aid. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: But we can't have—get one dime. And, uh, now that we don't operate it commercially…why, it's almost impossible to make it run. My buildings are in bad shape. My equipment is old and I'm gettin' old. Harold: Boy, how prices have changed on—like aviation gas. Wanda: Oh, yeah? Harold: Boy, we used to buy a barrel for what you can buy five gallons for now. Wanda: Is that right? Harold: Well, not quite that bad, but— Wanda: The gasoline itself has changed a lot, probably, too. Harold: Yeah. We used to buy an aviation-grade fuel. It came in steel, fifty-gallon barrels from Atlantic. Harmon: About $10.00 a barrel. Harold: $10.00 - $11.00 a barrel for 55 gallons. And it was very good gas, wasn't it? Harmon: It was. Harold: Never any water—I can't think what octane it was. Seems like it was 75, or something like that. Harmon: It was low. Harold: It was nothing like nowadays, but a, you could put your hand in it, take it out, it would dry it up white, right quick. Very volatile. It would evaporate fast, you know? Well we'd get it in fifty-gallon drums, and pour it through a chamois with a funnel into the airplane. Wanda: Yeah. Harold: Chance. Harmon: Gasoline today I'm getting 87 cents over here and I'm under some of the other airports around. I guess I'm about 5 cents a gallon under. Harold: Sure. I'm sure down around New York it would bring you a dollar a gallon for fuel. Harmon: Today it's pretty close to that. Wanda: Well, I'm trying to think what we haven't covered by now. Harold: I remember that guy at Atlantic. He, he was the one—Ziegler was his name or something like that? Harmon: Yeah? Harold: He'd order up two or three barrels of gas for us. They'd keep sending it up by truck and he'd set 'em off, ya know. The old big steel barrels. They were galvanized, rounded barrels. They were not like these you see now, that are straight sides, you know. They used to be rounded like a—they were galvanized, they were heavy barrels. But they were a gasoline barrel. I remember being up in Canada with a Sea-Bee and having to go get me one of them with a station wagon and bring it in—hundreds of miles. Back in— Wanda: Is that right? Harold: —for gasoline for a Sea-Bee, you know. Harmon: A good four place airplane today, equipped as it should be, minimum I'd call a good airplane about fifty-thousand. If you've really got the money you can go up—better than a hundred in a little four place airplane. So it's just got outta hand as far as the average man who is concerned to buy his airplane to fly unless it's business, something like that. And that's what the people that are doing most of the flying, I think, in buying airplanes today are small business or business people, because—they write that airplane off. Wanda: There's—there's not the fun for young people, either, to go into it. Harmon: No. No. Harold: So many restrictions in flying now. You gotta have radio gear. You can't even go into Broome County without a radio, you know? Wanda: Is that a fact? Harold: You can't get to New York or Washington or Chicago any more without a lot of radio gear. Wanda: When did you first start getting into the radio a—requirements? When did you—what kind of radio equipment did you— Harold: World War II, they got some of it. Wanda: Mm-hm. Harold: And I was teaching instrument flying on Army and Air Force programs, and the radio was the old-fashioned, low frequency radio. They had a, a radio beam and you, you made instrument approaches and everything with it. That's what I was teaching, you know. After the War they came out with the new UHF, or VHF it was at first. The OMNI which is very popular yet today. There's a lot of big improvements in it, but. That static created—the old ones, when you had a thunder shower your radio went out, ya know. It was real crazy 'cause the static would just drive it right out if you had a thunder shower. Harmon: A little trainer today, just coming out new by Piper and it looks like it was going to be pretty popular, two-place, one hundred and eight horsepower, low-wing, canopy top, nice visibility out of it, comfortable airplane to fly in—the minimum is $20,000.00. Harold: Just a two-place. Harmon: That's just two-place. And it's a very small airplane. Isn't fast. It isn't an airplane that you would buy to go somewhere with, it's strictly a training airplane. Or for someone to fly on Sunday or something if you want to go for a little ride around the airport. But to get up into a good four-place family airplane, fifty grand—about the cheapest. Harold: In about 1954—ah—G.A.F. got a new Bonanza. It cost what—eleven or twelve thousand? Harmon: Twelve thousand. Harold: And it was a beautiful airplane. I flew it four hundred hours, something, for them. I remember a trip to Los Angeles and back with it, but that airplane, today, would be at least fifty-thousand, wouldn't it? Harmon: Uh-uh. It's over a hundred. That airplane today is a hundred and nine thousand fully equipped. I've been reading about it recently. Harold: It was listed like—twelve—thirteen thousand or something when they bought it. It was brand new, they got it from up there to Rochester from a dealer. Harmon: So this is what's happened to the aviation industry. Harold: It's priced itself off the market. Wanda: Yeah, for a smaller operator like you are, you're just not going to be able to survive. Harold: You can't do it. You, you can't—have a hundred-thousand dollar airplane and rent it out. Wanda: Yeah. Just like everything else, it's getting too big. Harmon: You’ve gotta be big business today to—to make a go and we have an example of that. A fellow in Endicott at Tri-Cities Airport was an engineer in IBM Owego. Got interested in flying, got all the licenses and so on. He left—got a leave of absence for the year from IBM. He got money to back him, they built a big hangar at Tri-Cities Airport, he's got a—is a Cessna dealer today. He's doing real well, but he deals in big airplanes. He sells to corporations around. I don't know how he does it, but he—he sold a twin-engine airplane to someone in Washington, D.C.—a brand new one, a 410-Cessna, which runs $300,000. Harold: He's making it in sales, not the operation. Harmon: Right. He's not making it on the operating, strictly sales. He's a salesman, he's got people working for him and somehow he sells airplanes. Harold: An outfit in Reading there, did that and did real well. They—two brothers and I used to know 'em. Wanda: You—you a—rent space in your hangar now? Harmon: Yes. I have ten airplanes on the field, counting my own, and this is how it keeps running. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: If it wasn't for the hangar rent and the little sale of gasoline and so on it would fold up, and Haskell's would plant corn there. Wanda: Yeah. Harmon: I have to give Haskell's, of course, more than half of what I take in and I—what's left over, it's pretty hard to make the thing run on that. I have to maintain the buildings and a they don't touch it. Wanda: Mmm. The overhead and all that is your responsibility. Well, I would hate terribly to see the Chenango Bridge Airport go out of business. It's been a landmark for a long time. Harmon: It's been here a long time, and ah— Harold: Sooner or later it's bound to happen. Harmon: Its days are numbered, I'm sure. As we know, Haskell's gave up the retail milk business this year. OK, how long they'll stay at the wholesale, let's call it, that they're in now, no one knows. Ah. They get pretty discouraged and I'm sure all farmers do and have over the years, as anybody else in business does, but a—who knows how long it lasts? Maybe I’ll give up before they do. I don't know. I get pretty exasperated, too, trying to run the place and— Harold: You don't make any money on it and it's foolish to be tied up to it. Harmon: We do an awful lot of work for nothing, you know, for that thing. Gwenn: Find time to go fishing spring and fall. Wanda: Right. But go by plane and enjoy that part of it anyway. Well, I want to thank you. Harold: You and Charlie don't go on fishing trips, do you? Wanda: Not much anymore but I—we're just about of time here. Harold: I just brought some pictures over to show Harm. Wanda: I want to thank you very much, and for your hospitality, and I hope we can maybe do this again. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Harmon and Harold Johnson Subject The topic of the resource Johnson, Harmon -- Interviews; Johnson, Harold -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Aeronautics; Chenango Bridge (N.Y.); Link, Edwin A. (Edwin Albert), 1904-1981; Airplanes; Air pilots -- Interviews; Link Aviation; Chenango Bridge Airport Description An account of the resource Harmon and Harold Johnson describe learning to fly in the early 1930s under the direction of Edwin Link. They operated the Chenango Bridge Airport. They discuss the requirements for licensing, and progressing to commercial, transport, and instructor's ratings. The brothers also discuss various aircrafts they have flown, working as pilots for corporate businesses, and how post WWII affected their operation. They operated a dealerships for Aeronca and Piper airplanes. They talk about changes in flying school, air shows and stunt pilots who visited Chenango Bridge, and how the airport's usefulness has declined due to modern developments in aviation. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 36 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Johnson, Harmon ; Johnson, Harold ; Wood, Wanda Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978-01-31 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 44:31 Minutes https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/08ced4d8cdc31e0cd93ce3e47961f098.mp3 8b9701fadd1e1901cf95eda113bf885a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Broome County Oral History Project Subject The topic of the resource Broome County -- History Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Description An account of the resource The Broome County Oral History Project was conceived and administered by the Senior Services Unit of the <a href="http://www.gobroomecounty.com/senior">Office for the Aging</a>. Funding for this project was provided by the Broome County Office of Employment and Training (C.E.T.A.), with additional funding from the Senior Service Unit of the National Council on Aging and Broome County government. The aim of this project was two-fold – to obtain historical information about life in Broome County, which would be useful for researchers and teachers, and to provide employment for older persons of a limited income. The oral history interviews were obtained between November 1977 and September 1978 and were conducted by five interviewers under the supervision of the Action for Older Persons Program. The collection contains 75 interviews and transcriptions, 77 cassette tapes, and a subject index containing names of individuals associated with specific subject terms. One transcribed interview does not have an accompanying audio recording. In 2005 Binghamton University Libraries’ Special Collections Department participated in the New York State Audiotape Project which undertook preservation reformatting of the audiotapes, and the creation of compact discs for patron use. Several interviews do not have release forms and cannot be reviewed. See the <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">finding aid </a>for additional information. Acknowledgment of sensitive content Binghamton University Libraries provide digital access to select materials held within the Special Collections department. Oral histories provide a vibrant window into life in the community. However, they also expose insensitive, and at times offensive, racial and gender terminology that, though once commonplace, are now acknowledged to cause harm. The Libraries have chosen to make these oral histories available as part of the historical record but the Libraries do not support or agree with the harmful narratives that can be found in these volumes. <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/collections/digital/">Digital Collections</a> are created for educational and historical purposes only. It is our intention to present the content as it originally appeared. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright  Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ben Coury, Digital Web Designer Yvonne Deligato, Former University Archivist Shandi Ezraseneh, Student Employee Laura Evans, Former Metadata Librarian Caitlin Holton, Digital Initiatives Assistant Jamey McDermott, Student Employee Erin Rushton, Head of Digital Initiatives David Schuster, Senior Director for Library Technology and Digital Strategies Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1977-1978 Relation A related resource <a href="https://archivesspace.binghamton.edu/public/repositories/2/resources/44">Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections, Broome County Oral History project</a> Template: Simple Audio Player with Transcription This template displays an audio player by Amplitude.js with a scrollable transcription which is loaded from the "Transcription" metadata field. 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Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Keeney, Mary Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dobandi, Susan Date of Interview 1977-12-16 Collection Broome County Oral History Project Date of Digitization 2016-03-27 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:22 Minutes Streaming Audio Streaming URL <a href="https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE55957">Interview with Mary Keeney</a> Subject LCSH Keeney, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Mechanicsburg (Pa.); Pennsylvania Dutch; Nurses -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Dry goods store Accessibility Copy/Paste below: Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>. Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium Broome County Oral History Project Interview with: Mary Keeney Interviewed by: Susan Dobandi Date of Interview: 16 December 1977 Susan: This is Susan Dobandi, interviewer, and I'm talking with Mary Keeney, who lives at 150 Chapin St., Binghamton, NY. The date is December 16, 1977. Mary, I'd like you to tell me something about your life in your early beginnings. Could you start with where you were born? Mary: Yes, I was born in southern Pennsylvania, in York county in the country, and we lived there for about three years, then we moved to a little old town, Mechanicsburg—this was across the river from Harrisburg, about nine miles west in the Cumberland Valley which is a beautiful valley about 20 miles across where I lived. The land was—ah—limestone country, very ah productive, and the fields were acres and acres of wheat and corn and not—not large dairy ah herds but more farming. We lived in, usually, lived in about a six room house that was common for the poorer people and we had these six rooms, very comfortable but no conveniences, no hot water, cold water, no bath. No heating except with a range or cook stove and a heater if you wanted to heat the rest of the house. Bedrooms were pretty chilly. We got along without bathrooms but it wasn't as bad as what one would think having that outside toilets because, being the limestone land, there was plenty of drainage underneath the town. It seemed like there were underground streams that carried off anything that would be—would sink down. To have an outside toilet they would dig down until they found a rock, underneath that rock there would be an opening. Many times they turned the firehose in there and flushed it out then built the outside toilet, which of course made the danger of wells, so they had to close up the wells. They were not used, they couldn't be used any more because of this underground sewage. The sewage system only carried of the surface water. They—the town was—the people were very much under the influence of the Pennsylvania Dutch, which are not really Dutch but from Germany. The people came from different parts of Germany and they were different as they came from different parts of Germany. They would differ, as they came and for a long time I thought it was real Pennsylvania Dutch but I found out that it was not—not the true Pennsylvania Dutch as it's called now. Not so much. Susan: Mary, did this influence your upbringing? Mary: Yes. Susan: Did this influence the way your parents raised you? Mary: Yes. Susan: And affected your schooling? Mary: It did. Susan: Tell us how. Mary: Because they brought with them the German ways. Oh. And while it wasn't too marked difference they—but they were very class conscious, and so as you grew up there you were kind of classed—that what street you were living on—whether you lived on this side or that side of the tracks, if you mingled with this class or that class. And if you got in that class, you never got out of it no matter how successful you were. You were always considered that class. In school as you grew up, you were just kind of, ah, classed in the poorer class or the better class and it stayed that way. I went to school and I liked it. I liked school very much, but it seemed pretty hard. We didn't have—we didn't have any playgrounds. We were always kept off the grass. Many times we were blown and reproved and scolded if we got on the grass. We had no recess, we had morning and afternoon session, hurried home at noon and right back. We had no half terms or two terms in the year. It was a whole year. Mine were nine months work, solid work, and when examinations time came in the spring, we had nine months work to review for our examinations. We had very little vacation. Work—our school opened in September and by Memorial Day, we were out. We didn't go after that. I went to the high school, finished the first year and attended the second year until I was ready for my examinations. My father was ill and I had to help out in taking care of him. I was not at home, at that time. I was living with a lady as a companion, going to school, so I went home and helped take care of him and I got back with my lessons. The principal said, “You pass; take your examinations. If you pass in three studies, I'll put you over in the junior class,” but I knew he meant harder study and the doctor had just told me that I was studying too hard, that I should not try to finish high school. So I figured I had better not try. So I dropped out. I couldn't take up any work—I wasn't strong enough, but I did have a friend that was living, working in Atlantic City. When I was eighteen and she was doing work among girls who would go down to Atlantic City expecting to pick up work almost overnight, then be stranded, needed a home, needed advice, needed protection and so there were reading and restrooms for these girls and, but the doors had to always be open. So this friend of mine who was working there who was a graduate nurse asked me to go down and work with her, which was very interesting work. No salary promised, but all my needs were supplied and I had a very interesting life which I enjoyed so much. While there the lady who was the national president of this Florence Crittenton Association came there to look over the work in Atlantic City. She met me. She liked me. She liked my work and gave me a scholarship to go to their training school in—in Washington, D.C. So without any money (ha) I started and I found my way down there alone, not being used to traveling, but I—I found my way and began my work there. They claimed that it was a year’s work crowded into six months. It was a specializing on obstetrical nursing but it included general lectures on general nursing, children’s diseases, ethics of nursing and two Bible studies. We just had day and night duties and many times I was on duty more than a half of that time because I had to fill out for a nurse to be off one day a week, so I got very tired, but the lectures that I received and the and the practical work which we jumped into immediately, instead of cleaning floors and so on as they did in those days, I did crowd in quite a little ah training. I think I was just naturally…I, I liked nursing, and so after I came home I didn't start nursing but people kept asking and I gradually worked into practical nursing in private homes. What? Susan: Then you came to—talk about when you came to Binghamton and started raising your family, and what were things like then. Mary: I came in 1907, but I went back, and then I had a friend who wanted me to nurse her when she was expecting her third baby. I came then; I was on the case, and when the doctor came he was asking some questions and he wanted to be sure, how did I know this or that, and I showed my chart and he said, “Oh, I can give you work most any time.” From that I went—I stayed on and kept working, and I got more calls than I could fill. I, I worked at that about four years and a half. I met my future husband and we got married when I was 34. Susan: What neighborhood was this in, Mary? At the time, here in Binghamton? Where did you live at that time? Mary: At West Windsor— Susan: Oh. Mary: —with this friend. They had a grocery store, and instead of resting when I would go off a case, I would go up there. I worked in the house, I worked in the store, and the man who owned the store was Treasurer of the Telephone Company. Had the books, so I would catch up on the books, so I never got a great deal of rest. Susan: Tell us about when you were here in Binghamton. Mary: Then when I got married I first went to Vestal for a few years but then we moved back to—we moved to Binghamton. That was, oh, about ‘25—1925. My hou—my life was my home life. Susan: Your home was your life. Mary: Yes, I didn't want to work, a doctor begged me to do work for him, but I said I was—I wanted my home life. I enjoyed it. I was happy. Of course, those days we were living comfortably. Susan: Your husband was in business here in Binghamton? Your husband was in business? Mary: Yes, he was…well, a carpenter. At first he was working—he had worked for E-J a good many years, but he was gifted. He was a carpenter and he went into business for himself, so he was building homes, and of course during the Depression he was doing a great deal of repair work because they we were glad of any kind of work during the Depression. Susan: Can you tell us anything about the change in the city from the time you first came as against now? Did they have the trolley cars when you were here? Mary: Yes, they had trolley cars and I can remember when they last—they made the last trips. They draped some of the trolleys with crepe and that was the last trip that they made when the buses came. Oh. I…the War - the First and Second War - they didn't affect me a great deal. I was working at nursing during the First World War. The Second World War, of course my husband didn't have to go. My stepson didn't have to go. He didn't pass the physical and my son didn't get—he wasn't old enough to go until the last end, so that he enlisted twice but he wasn't in—a—he didn't get overseas. Susan: Now, I know that you’re not very much up on the Feminist Movement, but can you tell us anything about the Suffragette Movement in your days? When you were growing up? Mary: No, I didn't seem to get into contact with that. I think it was because I was so satisfied with my home life, and I thought that being a housewife and a mother was just about the height of happiness, and I thought to be a mother, to be able to be queen of your own house and home, you had to learn how to cook well. You had to learn how to sew. You had to learn how to take care of the children when they were sick. I thought it was very challenging and I liked it. I think I would not trade for any—ah—outside interests, if I just could have…be queen in my own home. Susan: You were telling me the other day about some of your experiences when your mother sent you to the dry goods store. Could you describe one and a little trip that you made to the store so that people will have some idea? Mary: Yes. Susan: And your experience with that little…at? Mary: The dry goods stores. They—they sold a great many things, of course. All kinds of yard goods on the first floor. On the second floor they had furniture and furnishings for the home. Window shades, curtains and things like that. The people did a great deal of sewing in those days and one day we came home from school. Mother had been to this store and when we came into the house she said, “Girls, I want you to go up to—up to Allcott’s,” that was the name of the dry goods store. She said, “They have something there that's very interesting,” and she tried to describe it. We couldn't imagine. We went up—we went into the back of the store on the first floor. And there they had a gramophone, with the records and a great big horn and the sounds coming out of this horn were unbelievable. We couldn't imagine where they came from. Some of the kids said, “Oh it must be down in the basement coming up some way,” and that was my first experience with the gramophone, and of course those were the days before radio and those were the days before many things. We had no refrigeration, electric refrigeration. They had cut out, they would cut the ice from the river during the winter months. It seemed we had very cold weather at that time. Then they would pack this ice in sawdust in buildings and would sell it during the summer. It was always amazing to me how that ice would stay from winter until summer and still not melt away. Those who could afford it, the ice wagon drawn by horses came through every day. You could buy a 25 block piece or 50, but most of the people depended on their cellars. We didn't call them basements - they were cellars with dirt floors, and perhaps because of the underground waters or streams, they kept cool. We kept our milk and butter and things down in the cellar. No, there was no heat in there, just our canned goods. Everybody canned because you couldn't get fresh fruits and vegetables. You either had them canned or you buried them and they buried cabbages, carrots, parsnips and so on—and would dig them out and we canned fruit and preserved a great many. We had to get along from one season to another that way. Fire engines were drawn by horses too, and I'd like to tell you a story. After they, the fire engines did not need horses anymore, they, somebody who owned a great big wagon or, we didn't call them trucks, would haul coal. They were heavy which needed two horses, one of the owners bought two fire horses to draw the—this wagon of coal and it, I heard that if they would hear a little gong ring, they would run. Just why they started this day I don't know. I was sitting, looking out the window where an alley came up into a dead end, not actually a dead end but a jog, and they were coming right straight for my window, and I knew they were coming too rapidly to make the turn and got up and ran to the far end of the room and held my face, waiting for the crash, when they made the turn it would hit our house but I didn't hear it—so—I went out. They did make the turn by coming up the sidewalk, and one horse’s shoe mark was left on the step but they made the turn, went down about half a block, turned into Main Street and stopped at a fire hydrant. But—I went out rather shaky. A doctor from the corner came up and looked over to see what they had done. He said, “They left a shoe mark right on your step; if you had your door open they'd have walked right in.” [chuckles] But our coal was delivered that way, just like the ice. It went down the chute in the cellar. We didn't have gas. We had, we had to cook on a cook stove, but they had—many of the houses had what they call a chimney corner instead of a fireplace. It was a chimney corner that you could shove your cook stove or range inside, do your cooking and a little—it was a little—it was ah, er…awkward. But you could do it, and then afterwards close the doors and that heat would stay. It was not…you wouldn't need to bear the heat from the stove. Sometimes, they had a little summer kitchen they could move into. Rights Statement This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mary Keeney Subject The topic of the resource Keeney, Mary -- Interviews; Broome County (N.Y.) -- History; Mechanicsburg (Pa.); Pennsylvania Dutch; Nurses -- Interviews; Binghamton (N.Y.); Dry goods store Description An account of the resource Mary Keeney talks about her early life in York County and Mechanicsburg of Southern PA with her family. She speaks of the influence in the town of the Pennsylvania Dutch people, who were from Germany and brought many German ways and traditions to the town. She also describes her childhood experiences, such as delivery of goods, the dry goods store and how they preserved their food. She received a scholarship to attend the <a href="http://www.florencecrittenton.org/content/">Florence Crittenton Assoc</a>. and began training as a nurse. Later she moved to Binghamton, NY, married and retired from nursing. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Binghamton University Libraries Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: Broome County Oral History Project, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Recording 37 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keeney, Mary ; Dobandi, Susan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1977-12-16 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2016-03-27 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Broome County Oral History Project Extent The size or duration of the resource. 30:22 Minutes