90
10
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' BINGHAMTON
U N I V E R S I T Y
S T A T E U N I V ER S I T Y O F N E W Y O R K
Ld
wdee
D E P A R T M E N T
TRANSATLANTIC JOURNEYS:
AN E VENING O F A FRICAN D ANCE FROM
W E S T A F R I C A AND T H E C ARIBBEAN
P resented by :
T he N u k porfe A fr ican Da n ceDru m m i n g
Ensemble, Binghamto n University
Directed by
J a mes B u rn s a n d E li kem Nya m ua me
FRIDAY, MAY 8, 2015
7:30 PM.
WATTERS THEATER
DINGHAHTON UNIVERSITY
�world, he is often depicted as a wild man from the bush, who is a
fierce warrior and defender of the weak.
Kpanlago (Ghana). Kpan logo is also a new form of traditional
music that was created by the Ga people, who reside in and around
the capital of Ghana, Accra. It uses a distinct rhythmic background
that is found throughout the Black Atlantic region in musics like
Samba, Calypso and Rumba.
X I.
Dance of Oshun (Cuba). Osh un is the goddess of sensuality and
beauty, which is tempered by an inner sadness due to the lack of
love and caring in the world. She is revered as a divine mother,
and also as the queen of the marketplace. ln Nigeria is associated
with the river Oshun, and is an im portant water spirit.
X1].
Baamaya (Ghana). Baamaya (the ground is soaked with water) is
one of the most popular social dances of the Dagomba people of
northern Ghana. The Dagomba originated within the old Mali
empire, and brought Islam and griot court music culture to Ghana
when they migrated there sometime during the 16th century.
Baamaya originated as a rain dance, where the men dressed as
women to entertain the spirits so that they would make it rain.
Xlll. Fumefume (Ghana). Fumefume is another new form of traditional
music among the Ga people. Mustapha Tettey Addey, a renowned
Ga drummer, is credited for having created Fumefume out of
earlier sacred dances that were performed during traditional ritual
events and ceremonies. This dancedrumming is now performed
during life cycle events such as birth, naming, initiation,
marriage/wedding and funerals among others.
X I V. Kinka (Ghana Kinka (Ghana). Kinka is a relatively modern style
of Ewe funeral music that became popular in the 1950s. It features
a distinctive body of songs and drum language phrases that
juxtapose images and themes from traditional Ewe culture with
modern li fe.
PERFORMERS
Songs Led by
Heno itoro Udo
Assisted by Stephanie Okpalor and Nana Nkansah Siriboe
Dances Directed and Choreographed by
Elikem Nyamuame, Departments of Theater and Africana Studies
BEGINNING DANCECLASS
Assisted by Nana Nkansah Siriboe and Rachel Nader
Deniz Akin, Dennis Asante, Oluwaseun Banjo, Adriana Caminero, Same]
Checo, Shi Quing Chen, Yue Chi, Danielle Schwarz, Alexa Dicken, Tyler
Downey, Robert Drante, Adrian Estrada, Deanna Feuerbach, Jessica
Forrnan, Yilan Fu, Shan Gao, Yuanhang Gao, Stephanie Gomerez,
Darlenne Goris, Dong Guan, Yiyang Hao, Nicole Jacobsen, Talia
Jacobsen, Kaddy Jaith, Shai Kanus, Avital Katz, Sandra Khalil, Jonathan
King, Kristina Klimek, Prince Kwashie, Isabel Liman, Ashley Lopez,
Nicolle Lu ftman, Jiayue Luo, Bernadette Machuca, Michelle Mandler,
Jash Mathuria, Adriana Morquecho, Maureen Mullarkey, Amanda
Niedfeld, Jasmine Oduro, Alicia Primus, Tiany Qian, Stephanie Ren,
Chris Santos, Danielle Sirota, Qiushi Su, Robert Tendy, Ningning Wang,
Xuefei Wang, Karly Weinreb, Jessica Wohlrob, Yihong Yu, Didi Zhang,
XuanJin Zhang
ADVANCED DANCECLASS
Assisted by Stephanie Okpalor & Taire Herasme
Samuel Addoh, Eunice Assibu, Alexandros Balili, Bimbola Bamgbose,
Trey Bonaparte, Woqian Chen, Zijie Chen, Wanying Cheng, Courtney
Edwards, Andrea Ekor, Aceneth Elliot, Sumin Eum, Qingyun Gao,
Unpyol Han, Steven Holguin, Joohee Jeong, Briana Jones, Ga Hee Kim,
Gabrielle Kim, Ki Young Kim, Kyeongtae Kim, Sumi Kim, Sunyul Kwak,
Gina Lee, Joshua Lee, Danielle Marsh, Regina Mathai, Melinda
Momplaisir, Melissa Morgan, Qianning Mu, Chioma Nwosu, Tosin
Olajuyi, Yuliza Pichardo, Briana Renois, Angelica Rivera, Danielle
Sequeria, Jialing Song, Kayla Starrner, Yaa Takyiwaa, Kathie Tejada,
Bradlee VasquezValdez, Xin Wang, Xiaowu Xiang, Xieyi Xu, Heng
Yang, Jae Young Yoon, Wei Zhang, KeHan Zhu, Claudia Wright,
lbrahima Balde
�NUKPORFE DANCERS
Robert Adusei, Dennis Asante, Bimbola Bamgbose, Krysten Barnes,
Andy Chan, Dominique Descorbeth, Courtney Edwards, Fatoumata Kane,
Bukola Kayode, Lola Kolade, Valerie Louis, Nana NkansahSiriboe, Akua
Nketia, Stephanie Okpalor. Georgia Sackey, Chelsea Satine, Courtney
Small, Yaa Takyiwaa, Kinnasia Wynter,
Drumming directed and arranged by
James Burns, Departments of Music a nd Africana Studies
NUKPORFE MUSICIANS
Allen Frimpong, Raffe Chesler, Megan K izer, Jingchao Lian, Josh
Schultz, Andrew Rappa, Jose Sinon, Keaton Rood, Nana Agycnim.
Santiago BarreraBums, Maritza Rodriguez.
If you like the music please follow our Facebook
page (Nukporfe A frican DanceDrumming
Ensemble) for upcoming performances.
All of the music and dance that you see today is performed by
students at Binghamton University, who are taking one o f the
following courses in the Departments o f Music, Africana Studies,
and Theatre Dance
If you are interested in learning the dancing please register for the
Beginning (THEA 289J/ AFST 289J) or Advanced (THEA389I/
AFST389J) sections of African Dance.
If you are interested in the drumming and singing, register for the
Beginning African Drumming class (M US l43B/AFST 188B).
�Ethnic Groups of Ghana
�
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Transatlantic journeys: a meeting of music and dance : traditions from West Africa and the Caribbean, May 8, 2015
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Concerts
Instrumental music
Live sound recordings
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Held at 7:30 p.m., May 8, 2015, Watters Theater, Binghamton University.
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Nukporfe African Dance-Drumming Ensemble
Burns, James
March, Marcel
Ny[a]muame, Elikem
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Binghamton University Libraries
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2015-05-08
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sound
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BINGHA MTON
U N I V E R S I T Y
S T A T E LVN 1 5 ; 5 T ! ’ O F N 5 ? ! Y O R K
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JOHN SIENBERG, PAINO
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SATURDAY, MAY 93,2015, 7:30PM
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�® PROGRAM ( I
L
Laudamus Te .
from the Mass in C minor, K. 247
W. A. Mozart
(17561791)
IL
Fnihlingsglaube.
Nacht und Traume
Liebe schwarmt auf allen Wegen
...arietta fro m Claudine von villa bella
. Franz Schubert
(17971828)
III.
Fra ncesco Paolo Tosti
Aprile.
(18461916)
ldeale
Preghiera
IV.
Il est dowc, il est bon.
...Salome’s a ria from Hérodiade
J ules Massenet
(1842191 2)
~Intermission
V.
Hermit Songs. Op. 29.
At Saint Patrick’s Purgatory
Church Bell at Night
St. Ita’s Vision
Samuel Barber
(19101981)
The Heavenly Banquet
The Crucifix ion
Sea Snatch
Promiscuity
The Monk and his Cat
The Praises of God
The Desire for Hermitage
Dream with Me.
...from Peter Pan
Leonard Bernstein
(19181990)
This program u offered in part ial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of
Bachelora DIMarc in Vocal Performance She is a student of Professor Thomas Goodheart.
�® Rejoice! ( U
I.
Th e details surrounding the unfinished Mass in C minor are unclear and
widely debated amongst music historians. The mass was written as a present for
his wife, Constanze; in one of her letters she mentions that Mozart promised to
write a mass as a celebration of her recovery from childbirth of their first son,
Raimund Leopold. Yet there is dispute as to whether this was the sole purpose of
the work. i t may have also served as a peace offering to his father, who
disapproved of his marriage to Constanze. Others say the Mass was merely an
experiment in the writing styles of Bach and Handel. For ins tance, one can hear
the famous Alcina aria “Tomnami a vagheggiar” quoted in the “E t incamatus est.” In
addition, the reason Mozart n ever completed the piece is also unclear. Perha ps
the association between the mass and his son deterred Mozart from finishing the
work after Raimund’s infant death. Others speculate that Mozart felt ltrle need to
complete the mass after his father rejected his peace offering, apparently not
impressed with Constanze’s performance. i t is also possible that he lost interest in
emulating Handel and Bach. The prem iere, which took place on October 26,
1 793 at the Salzburg Cathedral featured Constanze as a soloist. It is uncertain
whether the work was perform ed unfinished, or if other music was substituted, or
even if some of the texts were recited. Though the accepted style of liturgical
settings at the time was characterized by simplicity and brevity, the “Laudamus be”
setting heard this evening shows why the piece is referred to as the “Great Mass in
C Minor.” There is nothing reserved about it; it is florid, exuberant and full of
vocal acrobatics, which exude joy.
ll.
Austrian composer Franz Schu bert (17971828) is most noted for his large
output of Lieder, which range from simple srrophic melodies to dramatic
storytellings. Frithlingsglaube, firs t published in 1820, is one his most beloved lieder.
It is a deceivingly simple melodyl like so many of Schubert’s songs. Yet, it is full of
compositional and emotional complexity. The poetry, the only poem by Ludwig
Uhland ( 1 7871 862) set by Schubert, describes the beauty of spring’s arrival and
the excitement of the change which spring brings. i t also, however, expresses
nervousness and past agony. Schubert juxtaposes dotted, springlike rhythms with
harmonies such as the diminished seventh to express this mixture of emotions, as
well as the hope inherent in the poetry. Just as hope for spring is central to
Frithlingsglaube, hope for the night’s peace and the loveliness of dreams is central
to Nacht und Twiume. The poetry is an edited version of Matthaus von Collin’s
(17791824) poem “Nacht/eyer” (“Night Celebratio n.”) Published in 1825, a year
after the poet’s death, it is poss ible that this song is a tribute to Collin. who was a
good friend to Schubert. Schubert’s setting combines a gentle rocking figure in
the piano, a single dynamic ma rking of pp, and a sehr langsam tempo to create an
ethereal and som ber atmosphere. There is a mod ulation from B major to G major
towards the end of the piece as if to signify the transition from night to day.
Though famous for his songs, Schubert also wrote symphonies, sacred music,
cham ber and piano music, and operas. Liebe schwdrmt auf allen Wegen is from one
of Schubert’s experiments in opera, Claudine von Villa Bella, In 1815, Schubert set
the libretto written by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (17491832). It was around
this time that Schubert wrote several songs using Goethe’s texrs, including his
famous Gretchen am Spinnrade and Erlkinig. The opera never received a public
performance during Schubert’s lifetime, and today only the first act remains in
existence; the second and third acts were lost to a fire.
111.
Paolo Tosti (18461916) was born in Na ples, but established himself as a musician
in Rome, where he became singing teacher to the Queen of Italy. After settling in
London in 1 880, Tosti became singing teacher to the royal family, and in 1894,
he became a voice professor at the Royal Academy of Music. By 1908, Tosti was
knighted and his salon ballads had gained popularity in England. Because of
Tosti’s vocal background, his compositions are beloved by singers. This evening’s
selections include two of Tosti ’s most famous songs, Aprile and Ideale, and one of
his lesser known pieces Preghiera. These three pieces each exemplify different
aspects of the word “rejoice”: Aprile exalts spring as a season o f love, Ideale revels
in distant adoration, and Preghiera expresses the hope that God may ease all
suffering. All three are set strophically, and feature beautiful legato vocal
melodies, making it clear that Tosti himself was a singer.
I V.
The story of Salome has long been the source of inspiration for artists,
writers, and composers. 19th century France, in particular, was fascinated by this
story. Published in 187 7. G ustave Flaubert ’s (182 11880) Three Tales included the
story “Herodias.” This is the version that French composer Jules Massenet (1842
191 2) used for his 1881 opera, Hérodiade. in the opera, Salome was abandoned as
a child. In her quest to find her mother, she has met John the Baptis t and has
fallen madly in love with him. Th e selection heard this evening, “Il err dows, il est
ban,” is her passionate description of the prophet and his gentle, quiet nature. She
admits her love to Joh n, but he urges her to find a m ore chaste and spiritual love.
When John continually condemns the marriage of Herod Antipas and Herodias,
Herodias wants him executed. Herod, who is already an unpopular ruler, cannot
have him execured for fear of losing public favor. The Romans invade and capture
john. Herod is on his way to save him when Salome. desperately trying to save
John, admits that she loves hi m. Herod who has had lustful feelings for Salome,
becomes enraged. Urged by Herodias, he leaves John to be executed by the
Romans, and has Salome condemned as well. Salome continues to beg for mercy
for john. Feeling pity for her daughter, Herodias is about to give in when the
executioner enters with the axe covered in John’s blood. Salome, knowing that
Herodias is the reason behind his murder, draws a knife on her. Herodias pleads
for her life, announcing that Salome is in fact her own daughter. Salome, having
lost all faith, decides that if this is true, she has no more reason to live and stabs
herself.
�® Translations 3
V.
1.
Th e Hermit Songs, written by Samuel Barber (19101981) from 19521953,
are settings of texts written by Irish monks and scholars from the 8th13th
centuries. The song cycle received its premiere at the Library of Congress in 1953
Laudamus Te, Mass in C Minor, K. 247
featuring Leontyne Price as the soprano and the composer himself at the piano.
The songs in this thematic, (rather than narrative.) cycle range from charming to
pious to profound. They are all vocally gratifying: lyrical, and full of character.
Barber places great importance on the text; in his preface to the cycle he wrote:
“They are small poems, thoughts or observations. some very short, and speak in
straightforward, wit ty, and often surprisingly modern terms of the simple life they led – close
to nature, their animals and to God. Some are literal translations and others, were
translated (where existing translations seemed inadequate)"
In order to set the speech patterns, he has omitted time signatures and has used
mixedmeter throughout. He also has employed compositional techniques, which
refer to the medieval time period. Th e combination of quanal and quintal
harmony with chantlike vocal lines a nd modal melodies recalls Gregorian chant.
Harmonically, the songs contain a wide variety o f sonorities, but are primarily
tonal. Barber uses different modes and modal centers purposefully to reflect the
text. “The Heavenly Banquet,” one of the most lighthearted texts of the 10 songs
uses [onian and Lydian modes, which are referred to as the “lightest” modes. “The
Desire for Hermitage,” on the other hand, is the most reverent and somber, and
Barber primarily uses Phrygian, one of the darkest modes. The texts which
approach a variety of topics, continually juxtapose companionship with solitude,
promiscuity with piety, and joy with reverence.
VI.
Leonard Bernstein’s career was launched when he became Assistant
Conductor at the New York Philharmonic in 1943. Following his debut with the
NYPO, he worked as a successful conductor in the United States and across the
globe. The connections he made along the way introduced him to influential
musicians in ballet, opera, and musical theatre. Best remembered for his theatrical
successes, Bernstein is known for seamlessly incorporating many different genres
and styles o f music into his works. Always striving to communicate, he is known
for incredibly passionate conducting, and relatable and beautiful compositions,
such as West Side Story and Candide. The final song of this evening’s performance
is from Peter Pan, which opened on Broadway in 1950. Th e original production
did not include Dream with Me; in fact it only included five truncated versions of
Bernstein’s songs. Conductor Alexander Frey (b. 1972) restored the original score.
recording it in its entirety in 200 1. This recording led to several productions and
concert versions o f Peter Pan in the U.S. and Europe.
Laudamus Te,
Benedicimus Te.
Adoramus Te,
Glorificamus Te
We praise you,
We bless you,
We adore you,
We glorify you
1L
4
Fn’ihlmgsglaube, text by: Johann Ludwig Uhland (1787 1862)
Die linden Lufre sind erwache,
sie sauseln und weben Tag und Nacht.
sie schaffen an allen Enden.
O frischer Duft, o neuer Klang!
Nun, armes Herze, sei nicht bang!
Nun mu f sich alles, alles wenden.
The gentle breezes are awakened,
they rustle and blow day and night,
they work in all directions.
Oh fresh scent. oh new sound!
Now poor heart, be not afraid!
Now must everything change.
Die Welt wird schoner mit jedem Tag,
man weiG nicht, was noch werden mag,
das Bluhen will nicht endcn;
es bluht das fernste. tiefste Tal:
Nun, armes Hen, vergif§ der Qual!
Nun mu f sich alles, alles wenden.
The world grows more beautiful each day
one knows not, what still may happen,
the flowering will not end;
the most distant, deepest valley blooms:
Now, poor heart, forget the agony!
Now much everything change
Nacht und Traume, text by Matthaus Kasimir von Collin (1779 1824)
Heil’ge Nacht, du sinkest nieder;
nieder wallen auch die Traume,
wie dein Mundlicht durch die Raume.
durch der Menschen stille Brust.
Die belauschen sie mit Lus
rufen. wenn der Tag erwach
Kehre wieder, heil’ge Nachtl
Holde Triume. kehret wieder!
Holy night, you sink down;
low, too, float dreams
like your moonlight through space,
through the quiet hearts of men.
They listen with delight;
calling out when day awakens:
Return, holy night!
Fair dreams, return!
Liebe schwarmt auf allen Wegen,
Claudine ‘s arietta from “Claudine of Bella Villa” by Goethe
Liebe schwarmt auf allen Wegen,
Treue wohnt fifr sich allein ;
Liebe kommt euch rasch entgegen,
aufgesuchr w ill Treue sein.
Love swarms on all paths,
Faith lives for itself alone;
love approaches us so quickly,
faith needs to be truly sought.
�III.
Aprile, text by: Rocco E manuele Pagliara (1856 1914)
Non senti tu ne l’aria
7
il profumo che spande Primavera?
Non senti tu ne l’anima
i l suon de nova voce lusinghiera?
E l’April! E la s tagion d’amore!
Deh! vieni, o mia gentil
su’ prati’n fiore!
Do you not smell on the air
7
the perfume of Spring?
Do you not hear in your soul
11 pie tratrai fra mammole,
avrai su’l petto rose e cilestrine,
e le farfalle candide
t’aleggeranno intorno al nero crine.
E l’April! E la stagion d’amore!
Deh! vieni, o mia gentil
su’ prati’n fiore!
Your foot w ill tread along violets,
you will dress with roses and bluehells.
and pure white butterflies
will flutter around your black hair.
It is April! It’s the season of love!
Come! o my love,
into the blooming fields’
the tu n es of a new, en ticing voice?
It is April! It is the season of love:
Come! Come, my love,
into the blooming fields...
ldeale, text by: Carmelo E rrico (1848 1892)
lo ti seguii come iride di pace
lungo le vie del cielo:
Io ti seguii come un’amica face
de la notte nel velo.
E ti sentii ne la luce, ne l’aria,
nel profumo dei fiori;
e fu piena la s tanza solitaria
di te, dei tuoi splendori.
1 followed you like a rainbow of peace
along the paths of heaven;
1 followed you like a friendly torch
in the veil of darkness.
A nd I sensed you in the light, in the air,
in the perfume of flowers.
and the solitary room was full
of you and of your radiance.
In te rapito, al suon de la tu a voce.
lungamente sognai;
e de la terra ogni affanno, ogni croce,
in quel sogno scordai.
Torna, caro ideal, torna un isrante
a sorriderm i a ncora,
e risplendera, nel tuo sembiante,
eam
una novella aurora.
Absorbed by you, I dreamed of the sound
of your voice for a long time
and earth’s every anxiety, every torment,
I forgot in that d ream.
Return, dear ideal, for an instant
to smile at me again,
and in your face will shine for me
a new dawn
Preghiera, text by: G iuseppe Giusti (1809 1850)
My confused mind
of doubt and pain:
help it, oh my Lord,
with thy light of faith.
A lla mente confusa
di dubbio e di dolore:
soccorri, 0 mio Signore.
col raggio della fé.
che la declina al fango:
A te sospiro e piango,
mi raccomando a te.
Sollevala dal peso
Lift from it the weight
that makes it sink into the mud:
I send my sighs and tears to Thee,
I entreat Thee.
Sai che la vita mia
si struggle appoco appoco,
come la cera al foco,
come la neve al sol.
You know that my life
is melting little by little,
like the wax by the flame,
like the snow by the sunshine.
All’anima che anela
di ricovrarti in braccio
Rompi, Signore, il laccio
che le impedisce il vol.
Signor, pieta!
T o my soul, which yearns
to take refuge in Thy arms,
Break, Lord, the lace
that prevents it from flying to Thee.
Lord, have mercy!
IV.
I l est dolor, il est bon
Salome ’s aria from Hérodmde
Celui dont la parole efface toutes peines,
Le Prophéte est ici!
c’est vers lui que je vais!
11 est doux. il est bon, sa parole est sereine:
arle tout se tait
Ilp
Plus léger sur la plaine
L’air attentif passe sans bruit
I l parle
Ah! quand reviendratil?
7
Quand pourraije l’entendre?
Je souffrais...
j'étais seulc et mon coeur s’est calmé.
En écoutant sa voix mélodieuse et tendre,
Mon coeur s’est calme!
Prophete bien aimé, puis~je vivre sans toi!
C’est la! dans ce desert ou la foule étonnée
Avair suivi ses pas.
Qu’il m ’accueillit u n jour,
enfant abandon née!
Et qu’il m’ouvrit ses bras!
The one whose word wipes out all pains
The Prophet is here!
It is to him that I go!
He is gentle, he is good, his word is serene:
He speaks...all are silent...
Lightly over the plain
the air passes without sound
He speaks...
7
Ah! When w ill he return?
When will I be able to hear him?
I suffered...
1 was alone and my heart was calmed.
On hearing his tender. melodious voice
my heart was calmed.
Beloved prophert, can I live without you!
It is there! In this desert where the
astonished crowd followed his steps.
Le t h im meet me one day,
an abandoned child!
And let him open his arms!
�V.
A t Saint Patrick ’s Pu rga tory
Pity me on my pilgrimage to Loch Derg!
O, King of the churches and the bells
bewailing your sores and your wounds,
but not a tear can I squeeze from my eyes!
Not moisten an eye after so much sin!
Pity me, O King!
What shall I do with a heart that seeks only its own ease?
O, only begotten Son by whom all men were made,
who shunned not the death by three wounds,
pity me on my pilgrimage to Loch Derg
and I with a heart not softer than a stone!
Church Bell at Night
Sweet little bell, struck on a windy n ight,
I would liefer keep tryst with thee
than be with a light and foolish wom an.
St . I ta’s V ision, attributed to St. Ira. 8* cen tu ry
“I w ill take nothing from my Lord,’ said she,
“unless He gives me His Son from Heaven
in the form of a Baby that I may nurse Him".
So that Christ came down to her
in the form o fa Baby and then she said:
“Infant Jesus, at my breast,
Nothing in this world is true
save, 0 tiny nursling, You.
InfanrJesus at my breast,
by my heart every night,
You I nurse are not a churl,
but were begot on Mary the Jewess by Heaven’s light.
Infant Jesus at my breast,
What King is there but You who could give everlasting good?
Wherefore I give my food.
Sing to Him, maidens, sing your best!
There is none that has such right
to your song as Heaven’s King
who every night is Infant Jesus at my breast".
Th e H eave n ly Ba n q u et, attributed to St. Brigid, 10” century
I would like to have the men of Heaven in my own house;
with vars of good cheer laid out for them.
I would like to have the three Mary’s, their fame is so great.
I would like people from every corner of Heaven.
I would like them to be cheerful in t heir drinking.
I would like to have Jesus sitting here among them.
I would like a great lake of beer for t he King of Kings.
I would like to be watching Heaven’s family
drinking it through all eternity.
The Crucifixion
At the cry of the first bird
They began to crucify Thee, O Swan!
Never shall lament cease because of that.
It was like the parting of day from night.
Ah, sore was the suffering borne
by the body of Mary’s Son,
bur sorer still to Him was the grief
which for His sake came upon H is Mother.
Seasnatch
I t has broken us, it has crushed us,
it has drowned us, O King of the starbright Kingdom of Heaven!
The wind has consumed us, swallowed us,
as timber is devoured by crimson fire from Heaven.
It has broken us, it has crushed us,
it has drowned us, O King of the starbright Kingdom of Heaven!
Promiscuity
I do nor know with whom Edan will sleep,
but I do know that fair Edan will no t sleep alone.
Th e Monk and his Cat
Pangur, white Pangur, how ha ppy we are
alone together, scholar and cat.
Each has his own work to do daily ;
for you it is hunting, for me study.
Your shining eye watches the wall ;
my feeble eye is fixed on a book.
You rejoice when your claws entrap a mouse;
I rejoice when my mind fathoms a problem.
Pleased with his own art, neither hinders the other;
thus we live ever without tedium and envy.
Pangur, white Pangur, how happy w e are
alone together, Scholar and cat.
�8") ABOUT T H E P ERFORMERS 03
The Praises of God
How foolish the man who does not raise
his voice and praise with joyful words,
as he alone can, Heaven’s High King.
To whom the light birds with no soul but air,
all day, everywhere laudations sing.
The D esire for Hermitage
Ah! To be all alone in a little cell
with nobody near me;
beloved that pilgrimage before the last pilgrimage to death.
Singing the passing hours to cloudy Heaven;
feeding upon d ry bread and water from the cold spring.
That will be an end to evil when 1 am alone
in a lovely little corner among tombs
far from the houses of the great.
Ah! To be all alone in a little cell, to be alone, all alone:
Alone 1 came into the world
alone I shall go from it.
VI.
Dream with Me, text by Leonard Bernstein (19181990)
Dream with me tonight.
Tonight and ev’ry night, wherever you may chance to be,
we’re together, if we dream the same sweet dream.
And though we may be far a part,
keep me in your heart and dream with me.
The kiss we never dared we’ll dare in dreaming.
The love we never shared can still have meaning.
if you only dream a magic dream with me tonight.
Tonight and ev’ry night, wherever you may chance to be.
close your lovely eyes and dream with me.
The kiss we never dared we’ll dare in dreaming.
Th e love we never shared can still have meaning,
if you only dream a magic dream with me tonight.
Tonight and ev’ry night, wherever you may chance to be,
close your lovely eyes and dream with me.
Caitlin Gotimer, soprano, is from Malverne, New York. She is
currently pursuing a Bachelors of Music in V ocal Performance at Binghamton
University, where she is in her final year of study. She is a student of Professor
Thomas Goodheart. Caitlin has performed roles with TriCities O pera and at
Binghamton University. She has been the featured soprano soloist in Mozart’s
Requiem in D Minor at the Songe d'été Music Festival in Quebec, and in the
Bach Missa Brevis in F at Binghamton University. She was recently named the
winner of the NYS Biennial Student/Collegiate Competition run by the
National Federation of Music Clubs. Subsequently, Caitlin’s entry was
subm itted to the national round , in which she placed first nationwide. She
has won first place in her division o f the N A TS Regional Conference for two
consecutive years (2013. 2014.) and was the winner of Binghamton
University’s Concerto Competition in the 20 1 320 1 4 academic year. I n the
summer o f 20 1 4, Caitlin was selected to be a University Summer Scholar and
Artist, which allowed her to com plete a n a pprenticeship with Professor
Thomas Good heart in preparation for a summer at the highly competitive
Chautauqua Institute. At Chautauqua, Caitlin performed on masterclasses
with musicians and directors from the Metropolitan Opera, Engli sh National
Opera, and the Juilliard School. Caitlin was one of eight vocalists selected to
sing on a concert produced by Mikael Eliasen, head of the department at the
Curtis institute. That summer, she was the recipient of the Eleanor Pascoe
Award in Voice. At Binghamton University, she has been the recipient of
many prestigious honors such as the Provost Award for Excellence in
Undergraduate Research, awarded to two seniors in the graduating class, the
Stevenson Barrett Memorial Award for excellence in undergraduate Vocal
Performance. and has received the John and Marcella M. Green Scholarship
for the past three years. She recently was the National Anthem Soloist at a
speech held by President Obama. Outside of singing, Caitlin is a Resident
Assistant. Through this position, she has coordinated several initiatives
towards social justice and selfacceptance. Her most recent event has been
nom inated for a SUNYwide award. Next fall, Caitlin will begin her graduate
studies at the University of Cincinnati CollegeConservatory of Music, where
she was selected as a finalist in the annual Opera Scholarship Competition.
�John Isenberg, a native of Endicott, NY. holds Bachelor of Arts degrees
in Music and Italian. as well as a Master’s Degree in Italian Literature from
Binghamton University. He performs many different musical genres ranging
from Opera and Musical Theater to traditional Scottish and various sty les of
sacred music. From 20012012, John worked for the TriCities Opera in
Binghamton, NY, first as Accompanist, then additionally as Education
Outreach Coordinator and Chorus Master. During that time. he
accompanied over 500 outreach performances in schools throughout N ew
York State and northern Pennsylvania. H e has performed for WSKG public
radio broadcasts of opera preview performances including Puccini’s Madama
Butterfly, Verdi’s L a traviata and Mozart’s The Magic Flute. An active church
musician since childhood, John is currently the Organist/Pianist and Choir
Director at Sarah Jane Johnson Me thodist Church in Johnson C ity. H e has
served as Pianist/Choir Director for the high holy days of Rosh Hashanah at
Temple Concord in Binghamton. For the past two summers, John has also
participated in the Songe d’été Music Festival in Quebec (Canada).
An extraordinary singer, pianist, conductor, and cellist, Ms. U Le e has
performed around the globe. Contributing her talents to over thirty opera
productions, three hundred recitals, concerts, and other performances, Ms.
Le e has worked with Dolora Zajick, Margo Garrett, Thomas Muraco. Marilyn
Horne, Guido Lebron, Ron Raines , Catherine Malfitano, Victor DeRenzi,
Andras Ligeti, and more. The organizations Ms. Lee has collaborated with
include TriCities Opera, Sarasota Opera, Yard Dance CompanylMartha’s
Vineyard), C T Grand Opera, Pocket Opera o f N ew York, Mercury
Opera(Edmonton, Canada), Taipei Symphony Orchestra, National Theatre of
Taiwan, La Gitanita(a Flamenco Group in Taiwan), Institute for Young
Dramatic Voices, Opera Siena, Classical Revolution(Richmond, Virginia),
Binghamton University, Manhattan School o f Music, etc. Other than
Classical genre and traditional presentation, Ms. Lee is also an active
composer and a creative producer for charity and fundraising events. For
more information, please visit yu m use.com
�
Dublin Core
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Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
1960's - present
Title
A name given to the resource
Binghamton University Music Department Tape Recordings
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts ; Instrumental music ; Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Binghamton University Music Department recordings is an audio collection of concerts and recitals given on campus by students, faculty, and outside musical groups. The physical collection consists of reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, and compact discs. The recordings <a href="https://suny-bin.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Binghamton%20University%20Music%20Department%20tape%20recordings&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=MyInstitution&vid=01SUNY_BIN:01SUNY_BIN&mode=basic&offset=0&conVoc=false">have been catalogued</a> and are located in <a href="https://www.binghamton.edu/libraries/about/special-collections/">Special Collections</a>. In addition, the collection includes copies of programmes. <br /><br />The Libraries have begun making some of the collections available digitally on campus. These recordings are restricted to the Binghamton University Community. Please contact Special Collections for questions regarding access off campus.<br />Email: <a href="mailto:speccoll@binghamton.edu">speccoll@binghamton.edu</a>
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In copyright.
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Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
1 audio disc
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
40m 44s
OHMS Object
URL
https://eternity.binghamton.edu/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE74815
Streaming Audio
Streaming URL
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Title
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Rejoice by Caitlin Gotimer, senior honors recital
Subject
The topic of the resource
Concerts
Instrumental music
Live sound recordings
Description
An account of the resource
Works by Mozart, Schubert, Tosti, Massenet, Barber, Bernstein. Held at 7:30 p.m., May 9, 2015, Casadesus Recital Hall.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gotimer, Caitlin
Isenberg, John
Lee, Ü
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus, 1756-1791
Schubert, Franz, 1797-1828
Tosti, F. Paolo (Francesco Paolo), 1846-1916
Massenet, Jules, 1842-1912
Barber, Samuel, 1910-1981
Bernstein, Leonard, 1918-1990
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
5/9/15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/e098b1651e8a2d73a2031a352f7806c2.jpg
3b827fb28af26a03e3a3005d4894f762
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2f4821487265ee1d5255f8a7f677b938
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
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Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
ND
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dr. Ralph Young
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
1:26:32
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Keywords
1960s; Assassination of John F. Kennedy; Baby boomers; Activism; Vietnam; Society; Civil Rights Movement; New York City; Attitudes; Marriage; Sex; Changes in Society.
Biographical Text
Dr. Ralph Young is a history professor at Temple University where his expertise centers on dissent and protest movements in America, social history, and recent U.S. history. On-campus he runs a weekly teach-in series on historical content of contemporary controversial issues. He is the recipient of a Fulbright fellowship to teach Dissent in America at the University of Rome. He led seminars on Dissent and Protest Movements at Charles University, Prague, and Tubingen University, Germany. Most recently he was a "Scholar In Residence" at the Chautauqua Institution and the winner of six major teaching awards at Temple. He is the author of Dissent in America: The Voices That Shaped The Nation, and Make Art Not War: Political Protest Posters of the 20th Century.
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Dr. Ralph Young
-
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
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Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
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Date of Interview
27 July 2010
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sara Davidson
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
31:25
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Keywords
1960s; Berkeley; Sorority; Loose Change; Protests; Sexual revolution; Boomer generation.
Biographical Text
Sara Davidson is a journalist, novelist, screenwriter, radio host, and the New York Times bestselling author. She is the author of eight books, and has written for the New York Times, Esquire, Harper’s, Rolling Stone, and other magazines. Davidson created dramas for television and was co-executive producer of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Davidson graduated from the University of California, Berkeley and attended Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.
Accessibility
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sara Davidson
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js)
This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part.
Date of Interview
1997
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sam Smith
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
55:18
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
Microcassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Keywords
Baby Boomer; 1960s; Generation; Rights; Lyndon Johnson; Vietnam; Green Party; Vietnam War; Civil Rights Movement; 1970s; Race.
Biographical Text
Sam Smith is a writer, activist, and social critic who has been at the forefront of new ideas and new politics for more than four decades. The Harvard University graduate, class of 1959, has been editing alternative publications since 1964. He is an award-winning alternative journalist and currently is editor of Progressive Review. His activism helped organize the Association of State Green Parties-predecessor to the National Green Party and, in the 1970s, was a co-founder of the DC Statehood Party. He is the author of several books including his most recent titled Why Bother? Getting a Life in a Locked Down Land and a 1990's popular book titled His Shadows of Hope: A Free Thinker's Guide To Politics in the Time of Clinton. This native Washingtonian covered his first story in 1957 as a 19-year-old. He has served on the Board of the Fund For Constitutional Government; the DC United Black Fund; Project on Government Oversight and the DC NAACP Police & Justice Task Force.
Accessibility
Copy/Paste below:
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sam Smith
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js)
This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part.
Date of Interview
ND
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Dr. Paul Stoller
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
1:29:19
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Audio
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as: McKiernan Interviews, Special Collections, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries Special Collections for more information.
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Daniel Berrigan.mp3
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Collection
McKiernan Interviews
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Daniel Berrigan.mp3
Output Formats
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csv
dcmes-xml
json
omeka-xml
Bibliographic Citation
“Daniel Berrigan,” Digital Collections, accessed October 12, 2020, https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/admin/items/show/1904.
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Biographical Text
Dr. Paul Stoller is a a professor of Anthropology at West Chester University in Pennsylvania. He has been concussing anthropological research for 30 years. His early work concerned the religion of the Songhay people who live in the Republic of Niger and Mali in West Africa. Since 1992, Stoller pursued studies of West African immigrants in New York City. Stoller's work has resulted in the publication of 11 books. In 1994 he was awarded the prestigious Guggenheim fellowship. In 2013, he was awarded the Anders Retguis Gold Medal in Anthropology. Stoller lectures all over the world and has appeared on NPR as well as the National Geographic Network.
Keywords
Baby Boomer; Generations; Revolutionary; 1960s; Women's Liberation Movement; Race problems; Social change; Vietnam War; Vietnam memorial; Healing; Lyndon Johnson; John F. Kennedy; Protests.
Accessibility
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Dr. Paul Stoller
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js)
This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part.
Date of Interview
11 August 2011
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Pat Reuss
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
1:50:29
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Keywords
Communities; University of California; University life; 1960s; 1970s; Ronald Reagan; Women rights; Generations; Society; Baby boomers; Protests; Civil Rights.
Biographical Text
Pat Reuss is a longtime feminist with many leadership roles, both nationally and locally including the National Organization of Women. She is currently Acting Vice President for the Virginia NOW State Officers. Among the leadership positions, she has served: NOW Senior Policy Analyst-2002-present; Head of the Legal Defense and Education Fund-NOW; Legislative Director for the Women's Equity League NOW-1986-1990; Former Washington, DC NOW Office Director; President, Women's Equity Action League-1979-1980. Reuss played a major role as organizer of the National Task Force To End Sexual and Domestic Violence which was instrumental in passing the 1994 Violence Against Women Act.
Accessibility
Copy/Paste below:
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pat Reuss
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
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Stephen McKiernan
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Binghamton University Libraries
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English
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
10 August 2004
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Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
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Dr. Lois DeFleur
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1:22:41
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English
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Binghamton University Libraries
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Biographical Text
Dr. Lois DeFleur, native of Illinois, was the first female president at Binghamton University (1991-2010). She came to Binghamton after being provost at the University of Missouri. Before that DeFleur had served as a Sociology professor at Missouri State University and Washington State University. She has a Ph.D. in Sociology from University of Illinois.
Keywords
1960s; Women rights; Democracy; Baby boomers; Protests; Millennials; College students; Vietnam War Memorial; Communities; Minority groups; John F. Kennedy.
Transcription
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McKiernan Interviews
Interview with: Dr. Lois DeFleur
Interviewed by: Stephen McKiernan
Transcriber: Kimberly F Mourao
Date of interview: 10 August 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
00:06
SM: How is a- going there? I just interviewed last week, Arthur Levine. And what an interview, it was great.
00:15
LD: He is a phenomenal human being.
00:17
SM: When you think of the 1960s, and the early (19)70s, what is the first thing that comes to your mind? When you think of that period?
00:26
LD: It is a period of expanding voices and expanding rights for people who had been on the margins of society. Including women.
00:42
SM: Explain a little bit more about the, the women's aspect?
00:46
LD: Well, you see, I mean, I remember when I have been the first woman in all of my different positions, I was only the second woman who got a PhD from Illinois in my field. And I remember the difficulty and trying to get a job, and just working on my PhD, and they did not really take you seriously. And then they would have trouble. If you were a single woman, they would say, well, you just going to get married, or, and I had gotten married. And then they said, well you are not serious about your career, and you, we will hire you, but you can be the so called “Junior professor” who works for one of our stars. And, and then just, I mean, as a student, and then later as a professional, and then seeing other women come along in their, and, you know, I helped in the (19)70s, early, late (19)70s, early (19)80s, I helped the Air Force integrate women. So, what I see is I know it was a period of national divisiveness. But what I, I just see is so important to this whole society and to the people are all of these, you know, reaching out and having developing a more inclusionary society, even though we still are not. I mean, obviously. So, to me, it was not just about the political, but I guess that I just really felt that it was the key time for the social revolution.
02:42
SM: It is interesting that in recent years, I can even go back to when Newt Gingrich was in power, you can, George Will all the time when he writes, he likes to take shots of the, the boomers in that period of time. Your thoughts on you know, the criticisms of the boomers in terms of boomers are often defined as those born between (19)46 and (19)64. But anyone who knows what happened in the (19)60s knows, as a lot of the leaders of that particular era were born around 1940, (19)41, (19)42. But your thoughts on this concept of it, George Will and Newt Gingrich were the boomers responsible for the breakdown of our society of its values, because they you hear that criticism a lot from people like that?
03:33
LD: Well, if I look at the values of this society, we talk about equality, opportunity, openness, democracy, I mean, the we were not fully I mean, there were so many people who were not fully able to take advantage of the values. I mean, it was really you know, the gunner Murdock Murdock book, The American dilemma, which is here as your theory about equality opportunity. And here is reality. And the American dilemma is what do you do with a society where there is such a gap between theory and the reality. And to me, this was a period when we began to close some of that gap between theory and reality.
04:36
SM: I have the first edition of that book. I go into a lot of use bookstores, if you looked at the boomer generation, again, when as a university president, but also as a scholar and as a great sociologist to what, what has been the impact of the generation at that particular time on our society. As these as the boomers has evolved in the middle age, and now we were approaching old age, have they lived up? To this a lot of the things that they were involved in, in that group?
05:16
LD: I do not know. I mean, you could, I mean, many of the leaders of different movements have, I mean, they do not sustain a life of, of, you know, challenging and rebelling. In the society. I mean, very few people do, there are a few people who probably their entire lives are, you know, challenging and rebelling and, and really devoted to major change. I mean, I do not know how you would interpret that, I mean, you have got someone like a Ralph Nader, or, or you have gotten Jesse Jackson, or there is others, John Lewis, but I, in being a social scientist, I think it is more natural for people to evolve over time. And what was so phenomenal about that period is you had such large numbers, who came together, who were concerned about a whole range of social justice issues and the opportunity issues and, you know, the, the direction of our society. So, I would not expect those people to sustain that over a lifetime because that is not the course of natural, sort of, or the typical human development. I mean, what is, you know, as people, it is well known as people get older, they tend to become more socially politically. Con-, you know, you might say, quote, I do not know if it is conservative, I hate to use that label, because it now has different meanings. But people become, well, what people, people become less involved in social change themselves. Not I mean, as a general rule, and most people in social movements are younger people, there is less at stake, there, you are more of a risk taker, when you are younger.
07:38
SM: I always remember when we had Dave Dravecky, the baseball player on our campus, and then he is a conservative and not a liberal and we got into a conversation, he said “Steven in time, in time, you will be just like me.” No, I am not going to be like him politically, ever. But-
07:59
LD: But, but, you know, you are, there. People when their age and their concerns, and they change, and it makes it, that is why people really, I mean, there is some things that, you know, your general tendencies, I guess, remain the same, but your attitudes and values really do change over the decades of your life, because you are in different life circumstances.
08:30
SM: When you look at the-
08:33
LD: That was what was so funny, when I came to Binghamton, and I have met so many of the group who were here in the late (19)60s, (19)70s. And some, the bulk of them say, Oh, yes, I remember this. And here, you know, we were doing, we were protesting, we were in your office, we were doing that or that. But to, you know, many of them are in very ordinary and even extraordinarily capitalistic, you might say endeavors.
09:11
SM: They became part of the establishment-
09:13
LD: Well, right, that is not atypical-
09:17
SM: When you break down, if you were to list two or three or four qualities that you most admired in that generation, and, and qualities that you least admired. What would those qualities be?
09:31
LD: Well, I think the concern for the what I admire most is looking beyond yourself to other groups and other, you know, things happening in society and being concerned about it being willing to take action to express that concern. Today's students at least here at Binghamton, they are so focused on their individual life course, as opposed to, you might say the broader life, you know, life course of our society. I mean, they still are, there is more. Well, I think, I think that in the late (19)60s, early (19)70s, most students would say, here at Binghamton, they are liberal or to left to center. Today, when we do those same surveys, the students are distributed more on the normal curve. We have a good chunk of students who say they are conservative in their social values and in their attitudes, the bulk of them, of the students today describe themselves as moderate, very interested in their own personal futures. But they also I mean, they, they do worry about the environment, they worry about different things, and then we have a very few who say that they are left to center or they are liberal. And in fact, the women, the young women have no concept that they might not in some future date have legal rights to abortion. I mean, they just or that they might not, I mean, they do not understand that they, it was not easy for, you know, older women like to get loans to buy houses to get, there was open discrimination in jobs like, well, a woman, you are a woman, you do not need to apply. It is not to say everything is perfect now, but things you know, they are women like got, a lot of economic and social rights during that period, as well as other groups did too.
12:07
SM: We hear talking about the qualities question later on, but I am going to move right in here. When you think that today's college students are the sons and daughters of boomers, and now we are seeing the first sons and daughters of the generation Xers, the real, the ones that had children very young, so I cannot say they are all boomers. But what have, what have the boomer parents really done with their kids? I remember interviewing one person at Westchester University, she said, I am not going to bore my kids with the civil rights movement, because it does not. Oh, Mom, you are going back to your past. And I and I do not know how often that happens. I am curious as to have, have the boomer parents instilled in their sons and daughters a concept of service, a concept of caring about others, a concept of “we” as opposed to “I” and I, and then but then as to the some of the qualities you are talking about where their career oriented? Maybe this has not been instilled in their sons and daughters. And I want to know what your thoughts are.
13:14
LD: Well, I think it is a mixed picture. Because we have a much higher proportion of students who come here who have already done volunteerism participated in community service, and who are concerned about their communities. I guess what I would, they do not have I think they, they, believe in some things, and they have some causes. But they also, I think, they are more. At the same time. They are conflicted, because they really are very career oriented, very, very, particularly the students at Binghamton, a high proportion have double majors, they want to have internships, they want to get leadership experiences, so they have a competitive edge. At the same time, I would have to say that there are some that you could call are, you know, that their social and political views are more conservative, but the bulk of them say that they are, they described themselves as moderate. And actually, they all they just take it for granted. That for example, as a young woman, I have to tell you when I talk to young women they take for granted that whether they personally ever wanted to be able to have an abortion that it would be available, they take for granted that they will be able to have a full-fledged real high-powered career and through you know, whatever arrangement be able to do family. So they, they really want it all, but they are less, I guess they are less focused, focused on broad, you know, broad groups of people and trying to change things for like, even though we have a, you know, fairly active rainbow pride here, I do not see the students really talking to me about we are concerned because here is the group that like women or minorities, they do not, they know do not have all the rights, or they do not have the possibility of even the opportunities or taking full advantage of the so called rights in our system.
15:51
SM: There is a brand-new book out it's a fantastic book, I went to the ACPA conference and I went to force sessions on millennials. You know, my nephew's a millennial trying to understand them Bowling Green University has a tremendous staff there that has really studied this issue very hard. And there is a book out by Irving Howe and, and I would like your thoughts on his-, and I asked this to Arthur Levine as well, his premise is exactly what you are saying with today's college students. You cannot criticize the parents. Today's college students do care about a career. And in fact, a lot of the boomers have done very well in their lives. There is some very rich ones, the richest people in the world. And they were the ones that were antiestablishment. But one of the qualities that this young generation of millennials thinks about already is a legacy. Now, it is interesting Howe believes the millennials have no time, right? They want their career, they want to raise a family, they want to know, you know, their career and all these other things. However, they are thinking about giving back when they when they get older, and have the money to be able to do so and, and Howe basically states that the millennials are very close to the World War II generation in wanting to give back, and Arthur Levine said that, oh, wait a minute. He got right into what the boomers going to give back. So, I do not know if your thoughts on Irving Howe thoughts on today's students, but-
17:24
LD: I think they do what I think they are concerned about legacy. And I think they do, you know, to some extent want to give back. I think that varies. But what I do not see them doing is, you know, if we have a protest, we have occasionally still we have protests. But it only draws a few people.
17:50
SM: Christopher told me about a few that were here.
17:53
LD: I mean, but it only draws right 30, 40 people. But, you know, I think that is understandable because they are there for a variety of reasons. There began to be people who say, look, we have not been treated, right, we have been disenfranchised in a variety of ways. And then they are also at the same time going on in the society with the Vietnam. There was a sense that, you know, we had the draft, people were getting killed. I think having an all-volunteer army takes a lot of the wind out of the sails for some of these international issues.
18:43
SM: That could change next year.
18:45
LD: I do not think so knowing the military, they do not ever want to go back to that. They would rather use incentives and get people because they just I mean, they I know it may be challenging, but they it is just a much better situation for them.
19:07
SM: We have some activist students on our campus that are organizing a two day teach in, in October, about, about Iraq trying to-
19:16
LD: Well we had one here and we actually brought in some speakers. there We were out of we have about 13,500 students, and maybe a couple 100 participated and they had it over a period of a week.
19:38
SM: We have Bobby Miller coming in. And H. Bruce Franklin from the Newark campus of Rutgers and Dr. Radu from the Foreign Relations Council. So, it is an interesting group for and against. Do you think that, getting back to Vietnam, that the antiwar movements, particularly the college students, were responsible for ending that war? Or they were, what? How important were they in ending the war in Vietnam?
20:08
LD: They were very important. But I think it was a combination of things. It was not just the protests here, the simple fact was we were losing the war on the ground over there, we were fighting a war that we did not understand. And we did not understand the people, we did not understand that the Vietnamese have been, you know, what, they have had four different major powers try to invade and dominate them. And they are very proud of the fact that they beat back all of them. French, the Japanese, Chinese and, and Americans, I mean, they, you know, they are very proud people.
20:54
SM: Vietnam-
20:55
LD: There is that if you, you know, I went there with a group of educators before we had all the formal relationships, and we were looking at the universities, which were in terrible shape. And in talking to people, you know, you are friendly, do you know, what do you feel about the Americans and they said, we do not feel anything, we won the war. And now, America is in competition with Australia and Sweden and other countries trying to get, you know, opportunities over here. We have a long history, there is a wonderful museum in, in Hanoi, about the sort of the social cultural history of Vietnam. And it shows how they feel like they beat back all the foreigners who wanted to remake their society.
21:52
SM: That is, 80 percent of people live in Vietnam now were not even born when the war ended in 1975. It is amazing.
22:01
LD: See I think, I think that one of the big differences is that the young people do not face going off, being forced to go off, you know, fight really challenging or being, you know, a very, very distant and very, very foreign to most of them, they do not know and understand a lot about, you know, the Asian cultures, which are very different than the western one. And, you know, having all of that, and at the same time overlaid with, with minorities and women and others saying, look, we have been excluded from opportunities in this society. So it all came together.
22:52
SM: Yeah, the, the arguments right now, about if there is going to be a draft cause in Westchester, we have several individuals who are in the National Guard, and the Guard has been talking about there is talk behind the scenes, whether it will ever happen or not. I do not know, currently, Rangle has been one of the members of Congress has been kind of pushing for it. And the declaration and the talk at Westchester and data renew is going to bring this up from Foreign Relations Council that if it does happen, it is going to affect college students, but that was, they are going to make it, it would be totally different than it was before. College students that maintain a B or above average would not go would not be drafted. And the pressure to maintain a B would be pretty high.
23:35
LD: See I do not know how they could do to tell you the truth. I mean, the military needs a wide range of skills, and they need some of the people who are doing you know, different levels and different kinds of work. I just, I just do not you know, I just having worked with the Air Force for four or five years. I was on loan, I was not in the Air Force. And they just felt that when you look at all the other indicators, like getting the skill levels that they need, having people you know, really work together as a unit, having lower rates of AWOL, I mean, all of those things. I mean, what they have done of course is reached out to people and said look like women and women who go in like it a lot of them because it offers them the opportunity to get training that they cannot easily get whether it's pilot training, whether it is mechanics, training, whether it is military police training, whether you know, being you know, whatever. A lot of these jobs is too hard outside here to really go in. And they and the military is the only institution in this society where men and women and different racial groups get equal pay and equal benefits. The only one, the only one.
25:24
SM: Well it should be interesting. I also do not believe it is going to happen. But, but to hear discussions at National Guard, unit weekend gatherings is interesting because they do not want to, they feel they are going to have to take the brunt of it.
25:40
LD: Well they are.
25:41
SM: Yeah, well, they are not too happy-
25:44
LD: Yeah because I know-
25:47
SM: We have a couple of Westchester that ended up just getting off my interview. But we have a couple at Westchester that signed up and because of the fact that their college education is being paid for, but they did not think they would have to fight. So, this, this gets into the whole issue of trust. We all know people that live during that period young people at Watergate and Vietnam War it was full lies. We saw leaders like Johnson the Gulf of Tonkin was really a lie. I have even met-
26:19
LD: Oh, I am sure glad it is not going on today.
26:23
SM: Oh, oh you are darn right if the university-
26:26
LD: Oh, it is not going on today, there are not any liars.
26:29
SM: The next time you see Arthur Levine ask him about knee pads. What? How did you find out about that story about knee pads? Well, when you do see him, ask him just I will not tell you the story, knee pad. But the whole issue of trust. I think a lot I am seeing on my campus at Westchester is students are not trusting their leaders are not trusting national leadership. And that is why there is a question they think that they will sneak the draft in. And of course, we went through the boomers went through a whole period of not trusting their leaders. What, what influence as a sociologist in this society as a nation, what did that period do? The Boomer when boomers were young, to affect the concept of trust in this nation toward leaders toward, toward anything and is an ongoing?
27:23
LD: It still is, I mean, to some extent, I think that that people are, you know, they are not just passive and acceptive, accepting. But they, you know, I would say, yeah, I mean students, that was the whole era of student rights too, remember? I mean, and when we really lost the in loco parentis, the whole thing. And so, I do not think you ever go back to that period, where any group is willing to just sit back and say, oh, well, you tell me what is good for me. I just do not think any group in our society is willing to do that anymore. Maybe there are some that I do not see, because I am in academia, but you know, I just do not see in the workplace. I mean, are the workers here? I mean, I cannot just go out and say, okay, we are going to change, you know, the way you know, what people do in certain work, you know, place settings were going to change. I mean, they, they want to know why they want to know, you know, you know, what's happening why, and, and they are, I mean, this, of course, is a very open egalitarian organization compared to I think, to a lot of what should I say sort of traditional businesses compared to an IBM and all of that.
29:08
SM: When you look at you mentioned one of the qualities of students today well they want to be involved in leadership roles they want to get Marines. So how does that compare to the, the boomers who, in general, did not trust at least the people that were involved in the antiwar movement in any kind of activism did not trust and young people are striving to be leaders, but they do not trust leaders. Is not that an oxymoron or there is a conflict here. I want to be a leader but I do not trust them people who are leaders or is that the inspiration to become a leader is I am going to become a better leader.
29:43
LD: I think that I think through you know, our experience that people are, people are just more questioning and they are more skeptical. And I mean that. I do not think it has anything to do with saying I can do a better. I just think in general people are. They are more litigious, and they are more, you know, they are more assertive. Well, you see it in the university, the students and the parents, they are demanding, they are assertive. And I think that is because, you know, it is hard to take advantage of the so called, you know, opportunities in America it is still hard. It is very hard. Back then, probably harder than it was at other times. And so, people are, you know, God, they are questioning, they just do not, you cannot, I mean, they do not trust you. On the other hand, they are not. They are not ready to, like, say, the heck with most other things, I am just going to devote myself to these one or two causes. They are going to question they are going to demand their rights they are going to send, you know, our students were upset because the Provost changed the drop deadline. You know, itis the longest of any, it used to be, you could go, what, 10 weeks or 12 weeks. And so, we figured out that that was that was costing a lost opportunity of seats for students, other students, because they could, you know, you at the other. I mean, on the one hand, you could you could not drop, I mean, you could drop, but you could not add for all that time. And so, what happened is that people were taking this time, and others did not have the opportunity, like to get in courses and do that. And it's just so competitive, that, you know, they, they wanted to retain that. And so what did they do? A couple of students, the leaders, the SA passed resolutions, but more importantly, some of our students in our so called Honors Program, scholars, organized a giant like both petitions plus they got a listing of parents, I think, from the directory, and they do they sent they got money, they raised money themselves, plus the SA gave them some so they sent all of these letters to parents say, you right, you know, here is a letter they included a draft letter send this to the provost, and then it says, “We are never going to give any money to bring him to we are not going to do this or that and you are mistreating my students and all of this.” So, they are activists. But you see, it was over a very and they did it, it was some of our best students and they did it in a rather creative way I thought, I thought, within the system almost
33:28
SM: Right. It is a different type of an activism but it is not the Vietnam War, but it is-
33:34
LD: They were not willing I mean, to, like not go to their classes. That is the difference too. And they are they are not willing. In fact, they get mad if professors like canceled their classes.
33:47
SM: And heard of students going to protest and this is-
33:50
LD: No no.
33:53
SM: One of the things and I this is a general question you touched on it a little bit is I can remember even the students here people, a lot of the boomers will always think as a group that we are going to change the world. We are going to be the most unique generation in American history, and almost kind of an arrogance. Of being young the world's going to be a lot different. We are going to end racism, sexism, homophobia, all the -isms for bring peace to the world, nuclear arms are going to disappear. There was that attitude and a feeling when you think of that, was that all was it sincere. Your thoughts on that was it a sincere feeling at that time and have they lived up to it. Were, I guess basically I am saying were they the most unique generation in American history.
34:48
LD: I do not know that would be hard because when you go back in I think that is hard to say. They certainly but they are different. And they you know, but I do not know. I mean, there have been other generations where there is been tremendous social change. And only it has been done in different ways, in a different way, I would say. I mean, you know, I mean, the technological revolution, I mean, it is the students who are leading that the ones who were, you know, at the, at the cutting edge, in terms of all the computers, the technology, I mean, they are more at the cutting edge than most of our faculty, and so the students are out there on the cutting edge, and they talk about how they are going to change the society but not point in the same ways. I think, I think, I think this generation, they are so concerned about what is going to happen to them. What is going to happen to them when they are older? What is going to happen to them, when they you know, when they are middle aged, old age.
36:14
SM: If I was a, if I was my nephew today, I would be thinking, what is a college education going to be costing in 20 years? At the rate things are going. God what kind of a salary, am I going to have to make that and then you, then you have to think as we think of equality within our society, the concept of opportunity, making sure that minority students will continue to come, there is access to grants and monies to bring all students in and we are cannot forget that as, as prices go up.
36:46
LD: I mean, what, what they are seeing is a diminishment of that access, not only for some minorities, but for the lower socio-economic levels, we are seeing educational accesses has been curtailed. Because today, basically, although not for the really lowest income, I mean, most of the things today are need base, not, of course, merit based. And so, it is sort of the working class and the middle class that are feeling the real pressure, real pressure. Most of the parents I talked with here, when they are bringing their students they number one, both of them have jobs of some kind. Number two, it is often a merge sort of family. So, they would say, well, her daughters we are sending her daughter to this school, and my son is going here. So, they have multiple children to pay for. They have got you know, trying to do you know, their jobs, multiple jobs. Plus, in New York, we have a lot of immigrants we have, we still have a lot of students who are first generation college here a lot of more immigrants we have, what is it 20 some percent where English is not spoken in the home.
38:34
SM: Did not know that, how many Vietnamese students do you have here?
38:39
LS: Not a lot, some but you know, the Vietnamese I mean, there are some around this area and some in New York, but I do not think that New York was as big a resettlement area as some of the other places really
38:56
SM: Philly is a strong Vietnamese community. And I advise the AAAO. I am their advisor, I have gotten so close to them. They are. They are the sons and daughters of the boat people. And the stories about their parents met and when they were on an island camp waiting to come to United States, but it is just a tremendous story. Because they are such a successful group of people. I- it is amazing. It is a very sensitive issue. You know, I read a lot of sociology too. And a lot of books that have been written about the Korean community, about the African American community. They got the Latino community, and the African American community in Miami. And then and then in Philadelphia, the community of Vietnam. They started on a lot of businesses on the streets of Philadelphia selling glasses and, and then they work their way into businesses that have become very successful and their kids are going to school and they are doing real well. And it has become a very sensitive issue in the African American community. And so, there is a lot of tensions with a minority group. So yeah, and but what the university seems to bring people all together, you kind of get a family there. But then in society, they got to deal with all these issues.
40:13
LD: Well, you still, you know, we still have very segregated housing patterns.
40:20
SM: Now, that is still the same in Westchester too-
40:22
LD: It is everywhere.
40:23
SM: I wanted to ask this business about healing. A lot of the things that I have been working on deal directly with the Vietnam War, and the Vietnam Veterans and those who protested the war, the whole concept of healing. The Vietnam Memorial was built in 1982. It has been there now for 22 years. And we all know that the Vietnam Memorial was supposed to be a nonpolitical entity to heal the families and to heal the vets. It was done a pretty good job with the vets and their families. Although the question I am asking is what have, what has that wall really done with respect to healing the nation and this war? And have we as a nation healed as a society from that war? The healing processes?
41:17
LD: You know, I think the society is forever impacted by it.
41:22
SM: And I am referring to the boomer generation as they age, because you hear the stories about the, the sons and daughters being at the wall with their parents, what do you do in the war Daddy, and he was a protester or something like that. So, and the story is over, and over and over. So, I do not know. What is whether healing is an issue within the boomer generation.
41:47
LD: I think they have moved on, I do not know whether maybe for some it was the healing. I look at it more that most of them have gone on to different phase in their life. And they believe that our society has gone on to another phase in its life.
42:09
SM: You kind of believe what Senator, I interviewed Senator Nelson. And he said that people do not go around Washington, DC boomers that are in politics with on their sleeve with healing about the Vietnam War. But he said it has forever changed the body politic. It had that kind of an impact.
42:30
LD: Probably, I would say is true. Well, you saw it, as we start to go into any kind of conflict. Is this going to be quote, another Vietnam? You know, I mean, it. It raises questions about, again, about the US, and do we have the right to just go in anywhere? And I mean, it brings a lot of questions about our foreign policy, about our priorities about, you know, relationships.
43:13
SM: Civil Rights was the center core of the (19)50s and (19)60s and most people realized that all the movements use their example, the civil rights movement, the women's movement, and certainly the anti-war movement. Your thoughts on the civil rights movement, where it is today? Obviously, what the boomer, we talk about the boomer generation having a direct bearing on the civil rights movement. Well, they were the young people, the marches, but they were older people that were the leaders of the marches. They were not boomers. And just your thoughts on where we are with civil rights today, and the impact of that period had on civil rights.
43:49
LD: Well it was transforming. But again, if you look at what is theory in terms of our nation, our political theory, I mean, you know, women still make lists. And then, man, the bulk of the people who are in prison or African Americans, they, African American males do not finish school. The height of the unemployment is huge, the AIDS, HIV among you know, and each of these different, you know, minority groups has some different, you know, challenges that that it faces. And so, I think they are, I mean, there is still quote, an American dilemma. There still is a gap between what our theory says about how we run our society and what reality is, I mean, you just look at our older people, our healthcare or, you know, any of these social problems. And I will tell you, I mean, we still got a lot of, we have got a big gap between, you know, this so-called what America, it says in terms of our rights and our opportunity living up to living up to this theory. Yeah, living up to the dream.
45:28
SM: Yeah you cannot really blame the boomer generation because every generation has a responsibility. And including this new generation-
45:38
LD: Yeah it will be interesting to see if, in a few years, if, you know, we are in an era where they are not paying attention to social and a lot of economic issues. A lot of social, cultural and economic issues here in the US, they are not putting those at the top of the priorities. And it will be interesting to see. Particularly, the boomers come into the retirement and they need the health care, and they, they need the drug, the prescription drugs stuff, and, and, you know, a lot of surveys show that Americans really value having, you know, a good environment, open spaces, you know, and all of that, and that Americans are not necessarily behind the assault on a lot of these areas of our life. So, it will be interesting to see, not only what happens in the short term, but if, you know, there is sort of ups and downs like this. And I think we are at a point where there are a lot of people who are older, and they are. They are from a different generation, and they are willing to accept a lot more than the group coming up.
47:15
SM: I think a lot of the boomers refused to join AARP for many, many years. Either like, not admitting that they are, they are 50, or finally, in deciding when they get into their mid-50s, or late 50s. “Well gee there are some benefits.” Actually, definitely Levine was hilarious on this one, he refuses to join. Because it was the was the drug policy that happened this past year. That infuriated him, he said I will never that that particular organization-
47:48
LD: They sold out, they sold out. My poor mother who was in her nineties. I mean, she was gone, she and some of her friends. I mean, they are lifelong. I would say rather, not super conservative, but republicans a whole area, my whole family. And they have had it because they do not understand these new drug programs. They were losing different benefits. They have my mother lost finally, my dad's like executive pension. And so, they are getting to be, you know, like a gray Panther. And I said, well, Mother, what are you and your friends going to do? They are all women; the men had died. And she said, “Well, we may not vote.” And I said, “No.” She said, we cannot bring ourselves they are not they are not comfortable with carry. But do you know the way they are talking is back, you know, is really, that we have given and lived all these decades in this society. We have worked hard we have given you know, sweat and blood in different arenas, whatever it might be. And we have supported it. And like now, they are not going you know, we were we cannot make it on social, maybe on Social Security, the medical and the drugs. I mean, are scaring them to death, long term care.
49:19
SM: My dad had that. He was just so totally confused we had to help him. My dad was always smart. He was up to date on everything. He was in insurance sales but-
49:27
LD: But I you know what I was, I have been stunned to hear and I mean mother in her mind, she goes and volunteers that the old people's home, she is in her 90s these other people, she is taking care of them. But they are all so upset because they worry. You know, will they have to choose between paying the rent or paying, my mother said I am not going to renew my cable, because she has to take a couple of these drugs are so expensive and I do not want any charity, you know? So I say, Oh, well. So, I say, Okay, I am not going to pay for your drugs, you take care of that. But then I go there, and I pay for all the other stuff. And somehow, I guess that she sorts of pushed that out of her mind. But you know, they are upset. They are upset-
50:21
SM: Yeah, that organization disappointed a lot of people. And the ramifications on this are pretty substantially are pretty substantial because I believe the concept of trust, again, the faith within an organization, within a generation, and particularly if you know, the boomers and they question that either that either they will never join, or they will eventually join, but then revamp the philosophy and the leadership and the whole kinds of policies, and you know, and they may do it, because, I have one more question. All right. And then I have just some names that I want to ask you real fast. The last basic question is about referring to a couple of times as the concept of empowerment. We had Tom Hayden on our campus this past year, and Tom came into meet with our students before his lecture. It was a we have what we call active state. WC you and yours truly. Yeah. And we have had the Berrigans there. And we actually have Holly Near come in, the singer, and Randy Shaw from San Francisco works in the tenderloin, really good people who devote their lives to others. But Tom came in and sat down with the leaders of student government who were at the dinner and he said that you, you realize, I like to ask you, what does student power mean to you. And this is Tom Hayden. And student government of Westchester University, said, Well, we have we have power, you know, we give money out to student organizations we, we give we, you know, we are part of the decision-making process with Dr. Adler assets, we are involved in a lot of things, you know, we hand out monies and so forth. Tom is sitting there, and it looks like he is getting No, I mean, I am talking about student power. Well, and then I remember why just we just told you. And so already the tension was forming within the room between these students and Tom Hayden, do you understand that you have real power, do you want me to explain what real power is? And I do not know if they really liked him in the end, he gave a great presentation that evening. But what I am getting at here is the concept of student empowerment, the belief that students, students voices, and students can have a say in just about anything. And to and, and, like Tom did, he used the philosophy what life was like when he was young. And he was he had just come off a fellowship up at Harvard. And he had the same issue with Harvard students. And he had a class with about 300 students. And he said, he talked about power with them. And he said, they just did not get it, but they were brilliant.
53:06
LD: It is a different kind of power. I mean, that's why it's what the students are interested in today as a result of their life of their lives. I mean, to them, power means different things. It is partly what they experience, it is partly the circumstances under which they are, you know, growing up, and it all came together in that boomer generation. And it's, the whole circumstances are so different. They have, you know, that was coming off a relatively affluent time. I mean, these students today, they are so into competition, they are so worried about making it and making it not just for not just for material things, but also making it in terms of getting, whether it's a job, a good job in social work, or, you know, it is just a whole different, you know, they have been shaped by a whole different environment, a whole, you know, different set of situations because they, from their point of view, again, their power, they, I do not even think that they really want to run the university. Truthfully,
54:27
SM: I thought, you know, I think at that magic moment there at that particular time, there was a dead silence for a minute. And I said, this is another generation gap. They did not understand what Tom was getting. And Tom was saying, he was talking about the world, the War on Terrorism, the whole issues out there. crime in the streets, do not you get it in?
54:51
LD: They do, but it is different. They find it as they can make a difference. Like in Habitat for Humanity. tea or they can, you know, our students, we have the highest proportion in SUNY who have an international experience. And our students, they really are want seeking that out, because they do realize that whether it is economic, environmental, social, whatever political, the problems these days, just like global, instantaneous communication, they the problems are global. So, they are focused in a different way. And part of it has to do you know, with growing up with mass media, instantaneous communication, and, I mean, it is just, I mean, we are a product of our times, I mean, I get so tired of my mother telling me how she had to drive the horse and buggy, you know, and that, that changes that, that, you know, the environment as well as your immediate, whether it's family and friends, and then the, you know, the conditions you are going into that affects you, you cannot escape it. You cannot recreate your generation.
56:17
SM: You cannot recreate it. But also, I think that there is a big difference here to understand that issues that we face in this world today are complex, the complexities when you look at the World, War on Terrorism, it is understanding cultures, but it is much more, it is got a historic link goes back, like really everything. And maybe and I am starting to sense that maybe today's students have one up on the boomers. And that is they sense the complexities. And whereas it oftentimes sometimes the boomers did not, it was the we are going to end the war. And that was like, that was our goal and, you know, means justify the answer. There is a lot of things here.
56:58
LD: You know I think it is true that with the instantaneous communication, and you know, been in their lives this generation. I mean, can you imagine, I mean, they experience the world in such different ways than I did or you did, I mean, such different ways. I mean, and they are so sophisticated, these little tiny kids. I mean, they know about other parts of the world, they know that technology, I mean, it blows me away these little tiny kids are just so smart. In different ways.
57:44
SM: Christopher is a wiz the computer man, he knows everything. It is just I am waffling him around. It is just a few, just some brief comments when I list these names. Tom Hayden, these are all people from the era.
58:03
LD: What do you want me to say?
58:04
SM: Just any, just your immediate reaction, one or two sentence description, your thoughts on them as people or their impact on society or
58:18
LD: Well Tom had an impact at that time. I think he is still trying to have an impact, but he has not found the right way to do it. I mean, he clearly had an impact. He was the leader. But it does not mean that leaders appropriate in a different setting and in a different time.
58:39
SM: Jane Fonda-
58:41
LD: Jane Fonda, I do not know I mean, she has had so many different lives.
58:52
SM: Did you know that she donated money to Harvard and did not I she? She endowed some sort of scholarship there but did not want to win? No, but
59:00
LD: I know I mean, she has gone through a variety of transformations I you know, I do not I do not fault her, I, I am I think that she has, she has been able to pursue many, you know, a wider range of opportunities than most people. Because you know, when she was married to Ted Turner, I mean both of them they did phenomenal.
59:41
SM: Everybody knows what people say the ultimate mistake was being a gun. SO now she will deal with that for the rest of her life.
59:53
LD: She just she is a person who is gone through many more transformations. I think-
1:00:01
SM: This is your interview. So, I just want to bring this into this and be away from the tape, but I know one of her best friends, Torie Osborn. We had her here for Activists Days. She wrote Coming to America, which is a gay story of gays in America, and she runs the Liberty foundation out of Los Angeles. And I am sitting with her at Activist Days three years ago, and I was saying, she knows Tom, can we help me get Tom to our campus? And she said, Well, I know Tom, he has, he had open heart surgeries he is not doing too well. And I said, Yeah, I know a lot of vets that admire him even though he was against the war, but they would really dislike Jane and I started talking about Jane, and she is sitting there, keeping very quiet and I thought she was just going to make a comment about her. She says, Well, I was Jane’s roommate for a year. I lived with Jane after she divorced Tom Hayden. Before she linked up with Ted Turner, and you got to know her. She is a lifetime of causes. And she is really sincere in what she does. And she has made enemies but, but so it was it was, it was, I guess, for me and for all students. It was an it was an experience of not judging someone unless-
1:01:16
LD: I do not judge her as harshly because she you think about her environment, and the way she was raised, and the kinds of influences to Hollywood-ish, all of that. I mean, I mean, it has got to have an impact on you.
1:01:35
SM: Her mother just tried to commit suicide? Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, these are just these are all personalities from the ‘60s.
1:01:46
LD: Well, you know, I think they have pretty much gone a very different direction. You know, I guess as a social scientist, I understand that people change, and people go in different ways. And I do not I do not hold it against people because of that. Because I think that what was most important is people being able to, to change. And you know, whether you like the way I changed or not, is not the issue, but people being able to, you know, develop and change and then having the opportunity to do it. So, I do not begrudge these people, some of them who have gone on, they have made money or they have gone into the establishment. I think that is a natural part of your life cycle.
1:02:45
SM: The concept of development, lifelong, lifelong learning.
1:02:50
LD: Yeah, I think it is phenomenal.
1:02:53
SM: Some of the political figures, John Kennedy-
1:02:56
LD: Well, you know, he was he embodied sort of the American dream and ideals even though he really did and he came along at a time when he had charisma and he could you know, he was able to mobile, you know, I think inspire and mobilize people because he had ideas he had charisma I think Bill Clinton too, think Bill Clinton you know around Bill Clinton in one was you know, a leader in higher ed and Bill is a charismatic brilliant guy just did not know how to control certain excesses in his life.
1:03:52
SM: Bobby Kennedy
1:03:57
LD: Well, I mean, I, I guess I would say the whole all of the Kennedy’s, he did not have the ability to be as inspirational I think as JFK. Maybe it's JFK had lived he wouldn't have been as inspirational. You know, that is an important question.
1:04:20
SM: His greatest moment was that Cuban Missile Crisis. Because he was a good counsel. For his brother. Robert McNamara-
1:04:30
LD: Oh, god that is really fascinating because his recent, he was certainly had he certainly personified you know, the sort of organizational big business you know, aggressive foreign policy person, but yet in recent years he has come around. I heard an interview with him on NPR A few years ago, he, he went back to Berkeley and he gave some lectures there, where he said that these were wrong decisions. And I, you know, he, he basically said that he did not have good information, they were wrong decisions. I was stunned. I mean, I am I do not know why I should be stunned because people, you know that, to me the mark of a bright you know, inquisitive person, is you look back and say, you know, I believed this or I had these attitudes, I did these actions. But you know, now that I am in a different set of circumstances, I look back at it, and I have a broader perspective. That was wrong, I should not have done it. I mean, to me, that's part of growing and developing. And he has come around and come straight out on all of this.
1:06:02
SM: I interviewed Paul Hendrickson, who wrote the book on McNamara. And actually, this is kind of private, but he, Mr. Hendrickson, almost had a nervous breakdown after that interview, because he had done so much research on doing that book, and he well its quite an experience. I interviewed him on a lot of things. Lyndon Johnson,
1:06:31
LD: Lyndon Johnson's the ultimate politicians, politician. Shrewd. I mean, I guess I admire him for his political acumen, even though I mean, he, he made some decisions that clearly were not, well, it is hard to say. I mean, he made them based on information he had. But he also made them based on the political situation. I guess, that you got the feeling that Lyndon Johnson, to some extent would do what it takes to get the political outcomes. And I do not know, it's hard with, with JFK and Robert Kennedy. You did not see that as obviously with them, but you did not have as long a time to observe it.
1:07:36
SM: Richard Nixon-
1:07:41
LD: Oh god, Well, he, I think he was a I mean, it is, obviously it is coming out more and more, I mean, he was a, you know, a narrow thinking paranoid guy who probably did not have he is willing to do whatever it took, but in a different sort of way. I mean, he basically was a sort of cold, not trusting and non-optimistic sort of guy. Compared I think, I think people like, you know, Lyndon Johnson and others certainly, were had, you know, they just had a different sort of personality. When I mean, some of the things you read or hear about Nixon, I mean, he must have been just not an easy person to be around.
1:08:42
SM: He was, this campus. The night he gave a Cambodia speech. This place erupted. And of course, there were I think two things he said. Arthur Levine told me about the number of college campus that were not even affected by the war was amazing the numbers. Yeah, but he, I think 270, I think the number was 272 schools were so affected by that Cambodian invasion-
1:09:10
LD: And that is out of over 3000. So, you know, it was pretty concentrated.
1:09:17
SM: Well they had here. They have the they have a concert here. The Grateful Dead. They performed here, right after the invasion. And I believe it was because I know I had tickets to the concert I broke my arm. So, I was in the hospital. And but the Grateful Dead concert was here. They were supposed to have the band concert and they were supposed to be within two to three days of each other in 1970. And it is historic right now because the Harper College concert is now you know, they have a they have a CD of that Harper College, which I have in my office and if I ever want to get a there is a- There is a tension there, but they consider one of the top three or four concerts in their history. Because that it was the gym. The West Gym, all the history and I happened right at the right here at this campus. A few more names and then we will be done, Timothy Leary.
1:10:20
LD: I think Timothy Leary was. I mean, he started what I guess I would call sort of a cult, a social movement. And he continued throughout his life.
1:10:34
SM: His ashes are in heaven, not in heaven. That was a Freudian slip. Dr. Benjamin Spock?
1:10:46
LD: Well, that is an interesting man who was influential in his, his specialty, and, you know, but yet, he, he, he was determined to be an activist leader outside of this field. And I do not think you find that anymore. Very much because our fields are so I mean, our fields have become so specialized and so demanding. But I think that there were people who use their status and their knowledge in one field to try to have transference to another. I think he did.
1:11:37
SM: How about the Berrigan brothers? Barragan brothers, Philip and Daniel.
1:11:40
LD: I sort of remember them. I do not remember a lot about them it seems.
1:11:46
SM: Daniel Ellsberg.
1:11:48
LD: You know, I have met him actually heard him talk. And I know one of my sociological colleagues had an affair with him. He, he was, he was a, he was more of an intellectual. And he, I think he saw a broader picture. And he, he took advantage of it. And I think we still have people who do that, where they are not maybe out on the frontlines, you know, doing things with others, but they are trying to expose, they are trying to bring situations to the forefront, whether it is nuclear or whatever, I see him in the same vein, as that, that there, that there is like scientists, like scientists for social responsibility, some groups like that. And I think that I think those groups are really important. There is also it is called Business Leaders for Fiscal Responsibility. And they are, there is some really big heads of some big corporations that are trying to, I guess, redirect more of our resources toward, you know, have a good safe mili- have a good sound military, but also try to also address some of our, you know, our social our health problems, our environmental problems, did you see it was in Sunday's New York Times? Where they said the cost today, it was a whole page on the editorial section. So, the cost today of the Iraq War 144 billion, and that that went on this side. Then it said, “What could that well, how could that money have been spent?” was on the other side-
1:14:05
SM: Can you imagine coming into education that money?
1:14:09
LD: Well they had college, they had education, they had an environment, they had drugs, they had elderly, they had homeless, they had HIV, and they showed how much you could tackle social and health and economic and, you know, environmental, 144 billion, and that is before this next allotment, and what they say that after, if Bush wins the election, he is going to come back for another 80 billion. But it was a you know, it was a whole page. To me, that's people like Ellsberg. They draw attention to some of the disjunctures in our society-
1:14:58
SM: Is he, you know that whole Pentagon Papers, Ellsberg that he is there, he is a direct link of why the Watergate happened. Because, you know, there was a leak, called Nixon call it a leak, you know, and leaks and so, so he so he is trying to go in Well, you know, history of Watergate.
1:15:18
SM: But you see we have some groups, we have some groups like that. I mean, they are they may not be quite as numerous or have quite the depth of the money with them. But you know, there are these business men for something rational priorities. There are, you know, these groups. Well, the so- the Physicians for Social Responsibility, there is a whole set of them that are still really and then then the major environmental groups. They are still out there. I mean.
1:16:04
SM: Physicians for Social Responsibility ended up with the Medal of Freedom Award in Philadelphia, about six years, six, seven years ago-
1:16:12
LD: Was under the Democrats.
1:16:13
SM: Right, right. Actually, Mayor Rendell was the mayor then. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale, the Black Panthers.
1:16:26
LD: Well, I have very mixed feelings. Yes, ma'am. We are just finishing. Yeah, I know. Okay, thanks. I mean, I have mixed feelings because of the intersection. I have read enough about sexism and racism. I mean, obviously, they, they took a different tack on the racism and fighting it. But also, I mean, apparently, they were not fighting for women. It was awful the things you read. I mean, they were I mean, I think in a social movement, you need people that are, you know, radical, reformist. And that was a part of that whole social movement, from, you know, the Martin Luther Kings-
1:17:12
SM: Yeah that is my next person. Martin Luther King and comparing him to these individuals.
1:17:18
LD: They serve different roles. Not all social movements. I think a current social movement would be different, particularly with the, you know, with the instantaneous, sort of world global communication. I think it would be different.
1:17:38
SM: Well I know you got your next appointment, but I'll try to end with Gloria Steinem, Muhammad Ali, and Spiro Agnew, quite a combination.
1:17:52
LD: Well, you know, I, Gloria Steinem. I mean, she was she and Bella Abzug and oh, what is her name? Betty Friedan. I mean, they were major figures in, in opening up rights and opportunities for women. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, they took, you know, they took different approaches. And, but god they really, they changed the lives. I mean, for me, even though I was all I was older, but they still I never would be a president, if they had not really, you know, pushed on, on, you know, major rights for women, owning a house. I mean, you know, women could not on their own get credit. If you were married, you could not readily sign up and just buy your own house. I mean, you could not, you just could not do a lot of stuff. You try. I remember trying to get I had an independent job. And I was trying to get a credit card and they said, well, we will give it in your husband's name, but not in yours. I mean, you know, so many things have changed, you know, whether it's no fault divorce, you know, community property. I mean, the whole range of opportunities and thinking about women in new ways. Spiro Agnew, I do not know. I mean, he was a, I do not know.
1:19:24
SM: And then Muhammad Ali.
1:19:27
LD: Well, you know, poor, I guess I see. The boxing world is a pretty awful world. And he tried to bring a sense of humanity to it. But I think that whole thing is a pretty awful, awful world. Pretty uncivilized part of our society. And this poor guy got swept up in it.
1:19:58
SM: There is more names, but I’ll end it with this one final question that is, if you, if you had a room of 100 boomers, and you were to ask them, what was the single event in your life that had the greatest impact on you when you were young? What do you think they would pick? You might try this sometime with the Alumni Association.
1:20:28
Well, you know, we have actually, and they, they say that it was the, I do not know of a single event, but they all talk about sitting around the social and political consciousness. And, you know, that even there in their classes, they spent a lot of time on, you know, sort of social, political, that's what they say, they say that that was, you know, it permeated their- you might say, their personal and their private in a way that I think, you know, today that most young people, they have sort of got their sort of professional, you might say, you know, their student, and they want to make sure they fill in all of the checks, the categories at the same time, then they sort of separate out the, the public and their private. And I think and what amazes me is to listen to them talk about how sort of their public and their private came together during this era. Then, when they thought of themselves, you know, that is making a difference doing these things, and they thought they just thought of their future and what their priorities were in the same way that you know, these broad, you might say public and, and national priorities, and you do not I know you get that separation today, you get the separation, and like, Oh, I am concerned maybe about Iraq but that but first and foremost, I do not have time, I have to worry about getting a double major, getting an internship, you know, so I think people have, you know, separated those more and more in in in succeeding generations.
1:22:33
SM: Very good. I thank you. I wanted to talk to you but I do not have time now.
(End of Interview)
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Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
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Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
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Binghamton University Libraries
Language
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English
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In copyright.
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Date of Interview
October 2011
Interviewer
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Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
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Jeff Gibbs
Duration
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1:09:19
Language
English
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Binghamton University Libraries
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audio/mp4
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MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Biographical Text
Jeff Gibbs, born in Flint, Michigan, is a filmmaker, composer, scorer, film producer, and director. Gibbs has lived in Michigan all his life. He worked with Michael Moore on Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11. Gibbs released his own film, Planet of The Humans with the executive producer, Michael Moore in 2020. Gibbs' full length documentary is about the environmental movement’s battle against climate change and how some favored solutions come with their own set of problems.
Keywords
1960s; Cold War; Boomers; John F. Kennedy; Vietnam War; Anti-war movement; Protests; Ronald Reagan; Michael Moore; School shooting.
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Transcription
Any written text transcribed from a sound, or alternative text from a visual medium
McKiernan Interviews
Interview with: Jeff Gibbs
Interviewed by: Stephen McKiernan
Transcriber: REV
Date of interview: October 2011
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
SM (00:00:00):
Testing 123. There you go.
JG (00:00:05):
You are in near Philly?
SM (00:00:05):
Pardon?
JG (00:00:12):
Where are you right now? Near Philly?
SM (00:00:14):
Yeah, Westchester, Pennsylvania.
JG (00:00:17):
Yeah.
SM (00:00:17):
Is where I live. Just a couple more questions and I will get right to the point of how you became a documentary person.
JG (00:00:30):
Okay.
SM (00:00:30):
One question I wanted to ask is, and actually this is just, these are major events from the period of the (19)60s, (19)70s and maybe the (19)80s too. This is just quick responses to when you hear these terms what is your first reaction. When you think of these events during the past 65 years what did they mean to you and possibly to your generation? And it does not have to be long, it is just real fast. The first one is the atomic bomb.
JG (00:01:04):
Just by radiation.
SM (00:01:08):
The Cold War.
JG (00:01:11):
Headache.
SM (00:01:13):
The election of Kennedy, 1960.
JG (00:01:22):
I... Oh.
SM (00:01:29):
Okay.
JG (00:01:31):
Confusion. My mother was a Republican, but I convinced she was Kennedy was a nice guy. I was little.
SM (00:01:42):
How about the assassination of JFK?
JG (00:01:48):
Heart-wrenching. What you mean? Just one word?
SM (00:01:51):
Give you heart-wrenching or just what do you think it meant to you plus the nation?
JG (00:02:01):
Loss of innocence, I think. It was like watching a funeral on television, but it was also a collective sense of we were out together too.
SM (00:02:12):
The Cuban Missile Crisis, I think you have already talked about that a little bit.
JG (00:02:21):
Yeah, just, sorry it was like the moment when you realized it could all actually end.
SM (00:02:29):
The rise of Barry Goldwater, which actually is the beginning of the conservative movement, really.
JG (00:02:47):
Barry Goldwater. That would be a nightmare.
SM (00:02:54):
Gulf of Tonkin, 1964.
JG (00:03:03):
See some of these things I only remember in retrospect because I was not that old, but there was a movie made about it. I remember watching that and think it was just very painful to think to such a small event supposedly led to all that.
SM (00:03:27):
Right. Led to 58,200 plus American dead. God knows, close to 2 million wounded, and the 3 million Vietnamese killed. The Vietnam War itself.
JG (00:03:53):
Apocalypse. Now, can I answer just in a sentence, what you had said earlier that I did not answer?
SM (00:04:03):
Yes.
JG (00:04:04):
Without interrupting you, is that the reason I do not really have an answer is could we have won or lost. We attack small nations as a great empire. We attacked them. It is not a war, called evil, and so how do we win? Do not win that. You win when somebody attacks you, so there is never a chance we could win because we were just decimating people that did not deserve it.
SM (00:04:37):
The year 1968, everything that took place that year.
JG (00:04:44):
Duck and too young to... And that is not an excuse, that is just I remember sitting there (19)68, (19)69 thinking stuff is happening that I cannot go. Too young.
SM (00:05:03):
1970 Kent State and Jackson State.
JG (00:05:06):
Maybe jealous is the word. Some ways were a couple years older. They got the food for $5. I got the food for 50. Go ahead. What were you saying?
SM (00:05:17):
Kent State and Jackson State, 1970, May 4th.
JG (00:05:33):
Soldiers are gunning us down.
SM (00:05:38):
And then I just had a general one here called The Beatles coming to the United States in 1964.
JG (00:05:52):
Realizing I did not understand girls. Girl about them and I was like, "Okay, well they are all right."
SM (00:05:59):
Well, they were screaming for The Beatles.
JG (00:06:03):
Well, at that time, the music was not as what it is.
SM (00:06:09):
Right. Now, you were only one year old or three years old when I had this next one, but Sputnik in 1957, along with Elvis Presley in (19)57. Now obviously you would know what they were all about.
JG (00:06:19):
No, I remember that. See, I was an assigned [inaudible] from the day I was marked, I remember Sputnik. I remember all that getting going. I think it was, I usually all the stereotypical words, but it is true for a reason. It is just wonder.
SM (00:06:44):
I think personally, it played a role in the rise of higher education, and that was already rising from the GI Bill.
JG (00:06:55):
It was in a science fiction, but here is the dilemma. It is that the very, I have been thinking about this a lot. When you were a Roman citizen in Rome before the fall, you would be saying we have democracy at first, we have roads. We have sanitation, we have dust, we have fresh water. We have heated rooms. Charcoal was brought in from a deforested area to heat the rooms, heat the bath. We have culture, statues, theater, spectacle. Rome is a very good thing. How could anybody want Rome to fall? And so in Rome you were not aware of all the things that an empire amassed, and so for me is that we want to think of the empire being the corporation or push or breaking, but it is all of us. It is all of us together. Liberal offense. We make the system. It was actually help us out to compete with Soviets, right?
SM (00:08:12):
Yes.
JG (00:08:13):
They have an environmental movement so they fucked it up. They did not have the discourse that we have had, so they were less effective. Anyways, I do not know how that, but-
SM (00:08:27):
Earth Day 1970. Now obviously it has been celebrated every year since, but if you compare Earth Day 1970 and Earth Day 2010, we are talking 30, well 70. We are almost talking 41, 40 years. What is the difference?
JG (00:08:49):
Take care of them. I was at Earth Day 2010, and I would say Thursday 1970s was soulful. At least 2000.
SM (00:09:10):
What about in 2010, it is less soulful? Still there?
JG (00:09:20):
Yep.
SM (00:09:21):
Okay.
JG (00:09:21):
That was a scam.
SM (00:09:28):
Okay, the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980?
JG (00:09:32):
You had is, what is his name? The Avatar director was in... James Cameron is a baby Boomer, right?
SM (00:09:43):
Yes.
JG (00:09:44):
He made the movie Avatar we are supposed to care about the trees and the blue native people?
SM (00:09:48):
Mm-hmm.
JG (00:09:49):
So yes, Earth Day 2010 was dominated by NASA and they were passing out tree seedlings. Passing out tree seedlings is what the company that chopped down all the forests of the world do to make it okay the damage that they did in destroying the planet. James Cameron sponsored the exhibit where they were passing out little tiny baby tree stumps. I cannot think of anything more symbolic of the sellout of the environmental movement than instead of somebody trying to save the forest, here they are passing out the seedlings to the sugar companies want you to pretend to plant, replace forest.
SM (00:10:30):
To replenish and of course, we all know how important the trees are for breathing every day air.
JG (00:10:38):
Maybe you are aware of this, when you cut down a forest, the forest you cut down never returns and planting seedlings, whatever comes up has nothing to do with the forest that was there before. It is like raising the prairie and finding corn and saying, "Hey look, something's growing." Well, it is not what was there before. Let us see, sorry.
SM (00:11:03):
The election of Ronald Reagan.
JG (00:11:11):
All right, you may hit the election of Ronald Reagan?
SM (00:11:15):
Mm-hmm.
JG (00:11:18):
We got the daddy we wanted.
SM (00:11:19):
You got the what?
JG (00:11:24):
The Reagan was the first new age president.
SM (00:11:31):
That is not really good.
JG (00:11:34):
No, that is terrible. You think about the confluence of these things is right in Reagan because, and instead of Carter's message of use last put on a sweater and turned down the heat, sorry to change his minds. If they, all right, never mind. We were going to send our army's resourceful. Reagan gave us the first new age lingo, "We are a shin city on a hill. It is morning in America." He was a new age president.
SM (00:12:10):
He kept saying, "We are back. We are back."
JG (00:12:14):
We are back and secretly we love hearing that. Now we did not like what he did in terms of El Salvador and politically and keep the empire going, but see that is how it always works, is that Cartalita does not like what Tony Soprano does. She is not going to give up the house and the nice things. Carmella, and that is who we are, we are Carmella.
SM (00:12:44):
He supposedly was one of the main reasons that the wall went down. Actually some people think it should have been Gorbachev. The last two of the Gulf War and 9/11, and I think actually in Watergate. Watergate was crucial too.
JG (00:13:09):
The Gulf War. That is when I was ashamed of myself because I too enjoyed watching King after that war and I realized how insidious the joy of empire was. I was enthralled by the senior recovery and it should have been the same.
SM (00:13:30):
And how about 9/11? 10th anniversary coming up.
JG (00:13:34):
Yeah, it is coming up. Missed opportunity. I understand why we are headed.
SM (00:13:42):
And then the other one is Watergate.
JG (00:13:48):
My political education watched it on TV.
SM (00:13:53):
And you already talked about Woodstock and Summer of Love. My last question before I get into really stuff about you, some more stuff on your career is, and I want to mention this too, because I asked you why we lost the war in Vietnam, but how important do you feel these groups were in ending the war? I am just going to read them off and I think they all played a role, but if there is one that you think stands out. College students, Vietnam veterans against the war, the failure of our military to go all out, bad military leadership, weak leadership in Vietnam, including the inability to, you get the ARVN, which is the South Vietnamese army to really do what we did. Congress ended all the funding and then the Paris Peace Courts and the ineptitude of our leaders, including Johnson and the misinformation that was given to him by McNamara and McGeorge Bundy and others. They all played a role here. Is there anyone that you feel played the biggest role?
JG (00:15:02):
Ending the war, you mean or up top winning it or?
SM (00:15:05):
Oh, in the poly groups for ending the war?
JG (00:15:15):
No, I do not think any of those did. I think the Vietnamese, north Vietnamese won. I think they defended, successfully defended their homeland. I am not sure what winning would have looked like. We won against the Native Americans, right?
SM (00:15:32):
Yes, we did.
JG (00:15:32):
Because we killed them all. Between killing and disease, they went down to 300,000. What does it mean for the whole paradigm? I do not know how we could possibly have we won Iraq. I do not think we have won. Have we won in Afghanistan? I do not think it is... We have the wrong paradigm.
SM (00:15:53):
I would agree. Yes.
JG (00:15:55):
And we are the aggressor and these guys are not going to beat us because they were willing to die for the last person does not have a-
SM (00:16:05):
Do you feel that one of the problems we have as a nation is the fact that the Boomer generation of 70 million may be going to their graves like the Civil War generation, not truly healing from the tremendous divisions of divided America during the time they were young and growing up into adulthood. I would talk about the war between Black and white, male and female, gay and straight, the environmental battles and certainly the war in Vietnam. Those who support the war, against it, those who served, those who did not. Do you think we as a nation, Jan Scruggs wrote to book the Vietnam, be it Vietnam War founder and it was called To Heal a Nation. It was geared toward healing the vets and their families and being non-political, but in a sense he hoped it helped a little bit with the healing of the nation too, from the tremendous divisions of those times. Do you feel that we as a nation and as a generation have a problem with the issue of healing?
JG (00:17:11):
No, I think we have a problem with the issue of narcissism. The opposite. Who are we to feel sorry for ourselves? Now I knew a World War II aged guy that had escaped. He and his family were taken to the concentration camp and he hid in a bus and was able to sneak out. It is weird the stories you hear, and he snuck back in because he was starving to death outside the concentration camp. He came here and opened up the laundromat, experiment with the disco laundromat and was a very nice guy. That guy has a right to ask the question to be healed from his problems. We have experienced more wealth and abundance privilege than other any ever, ever, ever and that is going away, and we have used it all up. Our responsibility is to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and before we die, to get back to our original values, which were the right ones, which is the military and industrial complex, expanding human population and pollution are means that the human race is soon going to go away because it is over, and we have pretty much blown the opportunity. Now in fairness, nobody else has done it either and in fairness, the very education that we had and the wealth that we had gave us the opportunity as 15-year-old and 25-year-old in the (19)60s to see the truth of what Eisenhower said. We knew that, but we too succumbed to this deduction of the abundance, but we have used the lie that we are sensitive, that we care about the planet. The generation, I cannot tell you the people we are talking about. We are the people that have been in the upper one 10th of 1 percent of humans in terms of our impact on the planet. Our tomatoes come in from Mexico and Israel, our lettuce comes from around the world. Our organic grains for our vegans come from peasants everywhere. Our shoes, our Nike shoes come from slave labor, oil that we fly around the world on to go see the Africans to give them arms comes from Africans that are dying in Black resources because our empire and empires around the world, America, Europe, Japan, Australia, take those resources to ourselves from those people through Shell oil and BP, fly to visit them, their environment decimated by the climate change we caused by burning the fossil fuels and we run around there thinking, "Oh, is not it nice the Black people are kissing our feet or we are building this school for them?" We are the most spoiled generation that is ever been and we have hid behind having good value system just like Christians do, do very narcissistic things. We have a chance, we still have a chance to change that. The only wounds that we have to heal are guilt over using more resources. We have used more resources than will be available for all generations at the human's future.
SM (00:20:53):
Wow. That is one of the best responses I have ever had to that question.
JG (00:20:58):
Well, I have been thinking about this for 10 years and including sitting there having worked on Fahrenheit and the boss was beaten up and having everybody cry for Clinton. I am like, "Why are you crying for Clinton? He opened up free trade to China. He signed the globalization stuff. All this stuff is happening now with the environment being decimated faster and free trade destroying peoples around the world. Clinton brought that in." You do not intend to play the weakest in New York, in Philadelphia and Traverse City and you have a nice party, pretend our wealth came from the magical place. Did not have to do with that. I will shut up, but that is just, I sat there and I am like, "Bush is evil, but you guys we are not getting the evil that is what we are doing as an empire."
SM (00:21:50):
As we are celebrating Dr. King's the opening of his memorial in Washington this week, 28th, and actually people are down there now for activities all week. He believed in the non-violent protest way and he also believed in paying a price for one's beliefs and he also agrees with you and you brought it up before about the willing to stand up and protest, be arrested and so forth for causes you feel that are unjust. Then we had this period in the late (19)60s and early (19)70s where in the anti-war movement or some of the other movements, they became much more confrontational and more violent. Not necessarily trying to kill people, but more violent, whether it be the weatherman, the weather underground. Some people question whether the Black Panthers were violent. I do not think. Some say they were not. And then even at the American Indian movement in (19)73 there was violence there. There was a lot of reasons for this, but there seemed to be a sense of frustration then because things were not happening or they were not being listened to, and for African Americans, Black Panthers was about, well, the only people that are going to protect us are ourselves. What was your thought of that whole change in philosophy from non-violent protests to more violent aspects?
JG (00:23:16):
I think we have a systemic problem as the country is that we are too big and geographically too big, and so in Egypt or in Libya, somewhat reasonable to put yourself on the line. In Egypt certainly it is not a done deal, but they could go home at night or run back home or run to their friends. It is hard to have a revolution, a non-viral revolution when we all come from places that we take six months to walk to, because in a day or a week to drive to.
SM (00:23:57):
Well it is-
JG (00:23:59):
It has been a real problem and what I am getting to is that I think the violence was a mistake, but I think we have a hard time being humans. I think that is what King had was vehement, relentless vehement. I think that is what we lack and that is where it is human nature. I know in some ways I am not blaming us, but we are narcissism. V for vendetta: A Revolution Without Dancing Isn't Worth Having. Well, revolution without... I think we were not clear that we all needed to do what Gandhi had done and sit there and until it changed non-violently.
SM (00:24:49):
One of the things too is that in 1970, I can remember seeing posters or signs from all the other movement groups, the Women's Movement, the certainly Civil Rights Movement and Chicano Movement, Native Americans. They were all there. Nowadays, it seems like all the movements are isolated. Am I wrong in this? They do not work together. They are all isolated in their own, they are more interested in their own issues and not combining issues.
JG (00:25:19):
I have thought about that, but I think you are right, but there was something weird and confusing about that. You are right. There was a protest anti-nuclear there would be everything there. I think it is a little, it was probably exposing an error in our thinking. I will not say it was a mistake because who is deciding? But in an error in our constitution that if you believe what Paul Ehrlich said in Population Bomb or what we were saying about nuclear and stuff. We are talking about the extinction of life on earth and perhaps the demise of the human race. To come and carry signs, however well-intentioned and important cause about social issues, those are relatively unimportant comparison to destroying the whole planet or our complicity in wars that are killing out the people. They are important. You see what I am saying?
SM (00:26:29):
Mm-hmm.
JG (00:26:29):
But my personal, that is why I was so happy in Fahrenheit. We did not really go over aboard with the Patriot Act. It is chilling and crucial evil, but in the end, it is all about us and the special media issue. I want to be free. The larger evil is that we are attacking these nations to try and dominate resources.
SM (00:26:55):
It is interesting that when I talked to a feminist leader and she said, "Steve, we are working together, except you do not see it. It is on legislation that is being proposed in Congress. Various organizations are working together, they are just not protesting in public together." Well, I do not know if that is true or not, but that was a comment. And also Gaylord Nelson, who I did know, founder of Earth Day, who I interviewed before he passed away for this book project and I worked with him on 10 leadership programs down in Washington, so he was a good man. Even he, when you read his statements on Earth Day, one of the things that he was proposing and talking about he does not seem like anybody is talking about anymore, and that is the population boom. That he talked about the fact that if we overpopulate the planet, we are not going to have enough food to feed everyone. Then of course then all the environmental issues come up. I often think of Gaylord because I think even when Earth Day 40 was happening in Wisconsin, there were people there saying they were co-founders of Earth Day. Well, Gaylord Nelson, that was his idea. He was the man that made that happen and he was also-
JG (00:28:10):
He was Republican.
SM (00:28:10):
Huh?
JG (00:28:13):
Was not he a Republican?
SM (00:28:14):
Oh no, he was a Democrat. He was a Lyndon LaRouche democrat, two term governor of Wisconsin and two term senator from Wisconsin, and of course he worked for the Wilderness Society until he died, but did not seem like people were even listening to his thoughts on population. I do not know if you sense that, but I do. All the other issues are being brought up about the environment, but they are not talking enough about overpopulation and that is an issue.
JG (00:28:44):
It is the story of our issues that I was just thinking about how open my thumb and the whole complex issue of humanity in the planet. Humans have two stories. Do we have a story that is scientific and technical and that gets us bows and arrows and gets us started, gets us tabs and cell phones. We also have a story that is cultural and social and comforts us against whether it is the leopard that might eat us or the infinity of outer space that is so huge and we are so small. That is religion or myth or culture. Both those stories go together and that is why right now we are in confusing time because people are not understanding everything is perfectly explained that is going on in the world by the predictions of the (19)60s. I just want to affirm we were very, very ripe, but we got away from it. We let the addiction that is this culture get to us and we cannot blame the corporation because I cannot sit here with the iPad and jet pick up my pocket and then cry about the corporations. It is like who is going to give me that stuff? The Amish? I do not think so. But the story were as a species is the story that we started to get and then we moved away from that and those Paul Lake, Gaylord Nelson, those people were in tune with that story.
SM (00:30:25):
Christopher Lash wrote that book, the Culture of Narcissism in (19)79.
JG (00:30:29):
I remember.
SM (00:30:31):
And that was a big seller, and of course he was basically saying that a lot of the Boomers had gone into becoming yuppies or what he making a lot of money and that kind of stuff in their late twenties and early thirties, but then he was also talking about the next generation too, which I believe is the Generation Xers, which were the sons and daughters of Boomers. In fact, today's colleges, 15 percent of the college students centering this year are from parents who are Boomers and 85 percent are the children of Generation X. Where did that... And I am going to get in your background, but where do these two succeeding generations fall in this guilt? In terms of Generation X, which was a generation that I feel had deep problems with the Boomer generation and they were being reared at the time that Reagan was president and many of them took his way of thinking that we did programs out of the university and the programs we did, two main themes came out of it. Number one Generation X was tired of the nostalgia, the thinking that many of the Boomers had about the going back to those times, they were thinking about their music and rock and roll and the protest and all the times. Those are great times and some of the students were tired of hearing about it from Boomers. Then there were those who envied Boomers because they had no causes like the Boomers had except they did have the Anti-Apartheid Movement in the (19)80s, which was a big one on college campuses, but there was really nothing after the (19)70s, late (19)70s and the (19)80s and the (19)90s, nothing. So gen-
JG (00:32:19):
I told her that.
SM (00:32:21):
Generation X has some responsibility here too and I think part of them, they wanted to make a lot of money early and I do not know if they ever had the concept of helping humanity. Then you got today's millennial students, which I think are fairly comparable in some respects to the Boomers in terms of they want to leave a legacy but they want to leave it later on in life and not, they want to get married, have families in their twenties and thirties, but they do care about the world and they want to leave a legacy, so they do have some of those same traits. I am studied to hire Ed a long time, and so I do not know if your thoughts on where these two succeeding generations fall and the guilt and the problems we face today.
JG (00:33:08):
Sure. Well, and in fairness, reason for invoking guilt is that we do believe we have free will. The earth of the material upon us of the human race is what undoes our efforts to be good is that it is so powerful and productive, that is why it works so well. In fairness to us, we just failed to perceive how deep we were into this game and it was like everybody else, but we had the greatest opportunity because we... I was working with young people right after college in social services, doing social work, doing alcohol and drug treatment, doing therapy, doing retreats, all those things. Then I started working at the university of Maryland. Employment was not like the early (19)80s and no, the mid (19)80s. I noticed something changed profoundly that in the (19)70s for eager for these personal growth activities and they eagerly did them and they revealed very important things. It was just a mind-blowing time with people opening up. Fast-forward to the (19)80s and that feeling gotten worse and worse. I remember going into a social work file. I had been doing teaching group process and social work classes for a long time, but just practicing social work students. I did the same activity that I have been doing for 15 years to share something. What was it like when somebody came home from work and five or six o'clock? If you cannot remember, it was a very piggyback exercise, but you were practicing listening too, so you did not care if somebody was listening. One of them was, what was it like at bath time? Did you have a rubber duck, [inaudible] stove? Did you have the bathtub, whatever? Well, so that was one of these different sharing things. When it came time of the bathtub thing, I remember this woman freaked out the social work file, got up and ran from the room and the discussion went around. It is like, "How dare he asked people to share something like that in a class." Wow. I was in some sort of trouble. Then I had a client who we were doing some visualization, relaxation stuff and he came home from his foster family and they were like, "Oh, you were doing devil worshiping." And I am like, "What the hell is going on out there?" But I do not see this and I do not know if you felt this way, but what we failed to recognize when I came to understand that this somewhat anything goes thing, structured thing that we all had flattened was a mistake. It was a mistake. Definitely it is a clear mistake, and what we failed to perceive is what my speech teacher told me, I was a freshman in college. I came in the speech class and I was like, "Oh, I am going to do all this, blah, blah, blah, blah." And he is like, "Okay, here is what we are going to do. I am going to teach you the right way to do a speech and then you can do it your way, but first thing I am going to teach you the right way. Oh, okay, I am going to teach you the structure first, classical speech, and then you decide how to bury it." We had an incredible education. Everybody I knew, most of the students were taking math, physics, everybody was reading. We had this fantastic structured education and then we arrived at the (19)60s and we are all creative. Now, why did we think that unstructured education and chaos, and we were raised by generation that made us feel good about ourselves by being organized and behaving, and then we rebelled when we were teenagers or in college. We misperceived where we came from. We thought it was because we were special and that had burst the balance of repression. No, we were so creative because we had a damn conservative upbringing and we learned the basic of geography, science, math, English, social studies. That makes any sense. I am rambling, so then we were shocked when this generation that we gave a somewhat much more unstructured upbringing to working pharmacist are not creative.
SM (00:38:17):
It is interesting.
JG (00:38:21):
All she had to do with the was understand what we were doing wrong was to go back and look. See, we did not want to admit that because we were like the guy that did not want to continue the interview, that did not want to admit there was something good about the business.
SM (00:38:32):
Well, a lot of students did not want to be carbon copies of the multi diversity that Clark Kert talked about in his book and right after the, just before the Free Speech Movement, he talked about that the university was a multi diversity that students come to a university, prepare for a career and this is the way you get to your career and this is the way it is. The students did not want to be carbon copies of what their parents were in the (19)50s. The IBM mentality, which is the husband leaving the front door, kissing his wife, putting his hat on with his suit, walk into the car and having two children by her side and going off to work. They did not want it, so they were really rebelling against the status quo.
JG (00:39:24):
We were well-prepared to decide that having had all the basics covered through a nice conservative education. We all knew math. We all knew how to divide and multiply. We all knew the planets and geography, and so does that make any sense or should we-
SM (00:39:52):
Yeah, and see right now-
JG (00:39:53):
We had prepared us to make more choices, but to then go to a kindergartner, what would you like to do today? What would you like to learn? That is ridiculous. It is not going to... They do not know that they need to do every day for about eight years. Learn a little math and that is the only way you can have advanced math skills is every day do a little bit of work. I was part of that too. I thought, "Yeah, if we only trust the kids, they will puzzle it out." Well no, that was wrong.
SM (00:40:25):
I want to get into your background now. From that point that you were, you have talked about those early years in high school and what you did after high school, then you were in college working for a while. How did you go from college work and student affairs to the rest of your career?
JG (00:40:47):
Yeah, so working on the, well you want me to just... I will just give you the summary of how I got to that. How I actually started the film career was I was working, I had three kids and got divorced and had this blog house in the woods and I was on the Hippy Dream Organic Gardens. We were home birthed. The whole had winded off, fell apart. Do know I had taught college. 21 I wound up having to just work jobs to both support the kids when they were with me and then send her money and to support them when they were with her. It is a nightmare, so I wound up doing just menial social work jobs in a way, because everybody else was getting degrees. Well, I was just working without a degree, so I was really behind the eight-ball. I was working, supervising foster homes and more doing direct [inaudible] like I had done in the (19)70s and for an agency that was getting more and more paperwork. I was always been a writer my whole life. I was trying to break back into writing on the side and written out a book and some articles and publishing some newspaper and stuff, but knew Michael was getting ready to work on Bowling for Columbine. We talked about it a little bit, but I asked if I could tag along with them. When they were filming in Flint, not realizing you could not tag along with the film crew. Again, I had never been around anything as far as movie credentials. I am sitting in Traverse City, and this some message just started and Michael comes on the computer, he is like, "What are you doing?" I am like, "Oh, I have a doctor's appointment. I took the day off." He is like, "Oh, well we are going up to St. Helen where Charlton Heston was born St. Helen, Michigan, about an hour north of Flint, hour and a half. You want to meet us there?" Like, "Sure." "Actually, you see if you can get there ahead of us and see if you can find out where the house he grew up in is." I am like, okay. "Oh, see if you can find out where the bug pole is." All right. "The school where he went to, see if you can find out where that is." Yeah. All right. "Oh, here is a list of some people. If you happen to find out where these people that knew him are, that is great." And it is like one this list of 12 things, "But if you cannot meet us there, that is fine." It is the opening day of hunting season, it is slush on the road. I am like, "Okay, all right. I cannot see what he does and join up with them." So I go from Traverse City through the slush, went into some store, "Does anybody know anything about Charlton Heston?" I did not know how to do this, so somebody said, "Oh, go to the library. There is a Charlton Heston thing there." So I went to the library and the librarian, it turns out later, did ask for money for their most famous citizen to help build the library and he had never given it, but he still has a display so I said, "Michael Moore sent me to Tommy wants all this stuff and I do not know what to do and can you tell me where the stuff is?' So she is like, "Sure." She went and got a township map, put a little mark on the map where all these things were. Right around that time they pull up in this big white van and I run out there and I hand in this map with all this stuff on it. Now if you know anything about producing, if you have a list of things like that, you might spend a lot of time researching that more than 10 minutes. They are like, "Oh, okay." Then Michael said, and again he had not really asked me to help, he just said can you meet us there? Then he says, "Oh that is great. Well, why do not you go up to Oscoda because we are going to be there later and see if you find anybody who knew Eric Carroll. One of the Columbine shoots who lived there for five years." I drove up to Oscoda, it was a couple hours away and nobody would talk. "No, no, we do not want to talk." I went into a gas station there was a guy that booked pretty young, so I said, "Did you know Eric Carroll?" Said, "Well, I did not know him."
SM (00:45:45):
Is he the baseball player?
JG (00:45:47):
Eric Car-
SM (00:45:49):
Eric Carroll.
JG (00:45:49):
Fine shooter.
SM (00:45:50):
Okay.
JG (00:45:52):
One of the kids did the Columbine Massacre was from Oscoda.
SM (00:45:54):
Oh, okay.
JG (00:45:57):
So this kid said, "Well no, I pulled a gun on somebody at school and got kicked out though." So I told Michael, I said, "Well, nobody will talk, but this one kid pulled a gun on somebody and do you want to interview him?" So they are like, "All right, we will come over there later." About 11 o'clock at night, they made it over there, got dinner, the kids get off work, he was working at a gas station. His relief comes on. I asked him, I said, "Did you happen to know Eric Carroll?" He said, "Well, yeah I went to school with him." I said, "Oh, well Michael Moore is coming over here." And so they set up the bowling alley next door, the two boys went over and one is, one is with the bandana you see in the film that sells guns up north and sells in Detroit. The other one was Bomb Boy who sets off bombs in his backyard, and so by the time of those interviews, it was about three in the morning and Michael, so he was riding with me now in my car, we were going to Flint and he is like, "Well, maybe you should stick around with us." I actually drew up my resignation, faxed it in to the social work job, I quit and the next day was leading the film crew around Flint to get there a lot of shots, see with the in Becher. You there in Flint?
SM (00:47:17):
Mm-hmm.
JG (00:47:19):
We filmed the next day. Me never having lead a film crew before, did not know what a DP was, did not know anything, but my heart was into it and I knew what to find differently.
SM (00:47:40):
You then... Yep.
JG (00:47:41):
Well, the bank thing I was involved with, setting that up, the Barber shop gives you bullets. The dog shoot hunter. I am sitting there watching the movie and I am going, "Michigan militia, James Nichols." I am like, "This is interesting. The first fifteens I either found or had something to do with." My first effort ever that is not too bad.
SM (00:48:04):
No.
JG (00:48:06):
Just before the movie was wrapped up, they lost their deal with their composer fell through and Michael knew that I played keyboard. They were like, "Can you come to New York and work on the music a little bit, see what you can come up with? And oh, by the way, we have only got about five days and we have to deliver for cans." All right, so I packed my keyboard in a box. Got my one little keyboard, flew to New York, and I was able to come up with about 15 of the music that they used. Never have not been to New York.
SM (00:48:47):
Wow.
JG (00:48:47):
So-
SM (00:48:57):
Still there? Still there? Hello?
JG (00:49:06):
Hello. I was scoring, doing most of the other score music for the film on five days and checking the sound mix. Tell me if it is too much detail, but I am sitting in the sound mix and everybody else left and I am the composer. I am sitting there, ask the guy, "Well, when was the last time you worked out?" He is like, "Oh, well Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." I am like, "Okay." I say, "Well, can you put a little bit more of this in the surround? And I cannot hear that." It is just this weird thing where I fell into it and everything seemed to work and I wound up being strangely comfortable with every part of it. I was in a technical screening I remember for Fahrenheit and there were 30 people there and they had done something in one line of resolution, was listening to the film and I was the only one that caught it. I do not know why I was so instantly tuned into this stuff except the writing background, the social work background, but like many of us, I do not know if you were, but when I was a kid, we went... Movies is what we did instead of sitting at home.
SM (00:50:26):
Every Saturday morning. Saturday morning was the cartoons normally where I grew up and then the afternoon was all the Cowboys and Indians and Army movies.
JG (00:50:37):
But even when I was into science fiction and I would wait, my dad was gone when I was little and was in the Big Brother program, and I remember how old was I must have been? Nine. My big brother from the Big Brother program said, "Well, what movie do you want to go to?" And I was like, "Doctors Club."
SM (00:51:02):
Yeah, it is interesting. There were a lot of dinosaur movies back then.
JG (00:51:08):
I liked real science fiction, I liked Kubrick first. I did not even realize who he was at that point and then 2001, I waited for that movie was like the second coming and I just-
SM (00:51:22):
Wow. Yeah.
JG (00:51:25):
I was in college. Michael and I took film appreciation courses. We never took film courses, but we would draw scripts in high school from Ann Arbor. We would dive in to Steve Moore movies and foreign films and that is what we did. Movies and music, and you know.
SM (00:51:44):
You have been doing it, how long now? Total of how many years?
JG (00:51:47):
Probably 10 years.
SM (00:51:49):
And you have been involved how many movies?
JG (00:51:55):
Bowling for Columbine was the first and then that turned out okay, so they asked me back to work on Fahrenheit and I was co-producer, the film's composer. In between we worked on Michael's Book, Stupid White Men in Due Place, my Country. Then I did the filming that was Foundation Fortune Workshop and saint. Me and Megan, my hero touring with The Dixie Chicks for a couple weeks. Shot the concert footage for that film in the protest footage, and then I worked on one on Paul Watson and Steve Shepard composer, producer, and then Capitalism.
SM (00:52:39):
Yeah, that was-
JG (00:52:40):
But not so many films, because I am in a weird zone where if somebody was asking me to put my name on a film, a friend of mine in New York could trying to get some money for, I am like, "It sounds good but I cannot really put my name on a film that is not in the zone of these other."
SM (00:53:01):
Yeah, definitely. You are working on, and now you are working on your own film and what is the name of this film?
JG (00:53:12):
Planet of the Human.
SM (00:53:13):
Wow. When do you hope to be done?
JG (00:53:18):
As soon as possible. This year, by the end of the year.
SM (00:53:26):
It is good.
JG (00:53:26):
About to do the last round of filming, but it is all connected. Well, some days somebody will have to do, my client has not done it yet. Maybe he will do it, but the inside, sorry, how films were made, but quite a great the teams of people to work with together and great journey. We had the sound mixers from Skywalker Ranch.
SM (00:53:58):
Wow.
JG (00:53:59):
Take a break from, in fact, when we were mixing Fahrenheit, we had to pack up all the drives. Sound mix was a huge deal and the end of the film is the most complex part of all. We had to pack up the drives and pack up everybody and fly off to San Francisco and then get in cars and drive up into the Skywalker Ranch because they had to start to mix to Polar Express and we were bumping into that schedule, so they had to do Polar Express by day and Fahrenheit by night for a couple of days.
SM (00:54:39):
Wow. Well, when you look at your life's journey, then from growing up in Michigan and a very poor family, but a very rich family because in terms of pride in your background and so forth, the experiences you have gone through throughout your life, leading up to being a movie producer, director, you name it. A lot of messages in your movies and a lot of messages that probably people do not want to hear but need to hear.
JG (00:55:16):
Is the place where you grew up still intact?
SM (00:55:19):
Pardon?
JG (00:55:20):
Is the place where you grew up still intact?
SM (00:55:23):
Oh yeah. Cortland, New York. I grew up in Cortland. I do not know if you have ever heard of it.
JG (00:55:30):
Oh.
SM (00:55:30):
Yeah, I grew up in Cortland. I lived there until 1959 and then my dad transferred and then we moved down toward Binghamton, New York. We lived in a small community called Lyle, which I went to Whitney Point High School and it was a small school. I was looking forward to going to Cortland High, which was a big school, but my dad transferred. He was Prudential Insurance. I went, that is my background. Cortland is an interesting story too, because in the 1950s, Cortland was a very successful community and they had a college there because State and Rever Cortland, which was a teacher's college, but a lot of businesses, the downtown was very successful. Brockway Trucks was from there, and then around late around 1960 Brockway left and a lot of businesses left and it really went downhill. It is recuperated quite a bit to this day, but that begets because the college is so big. College is about 14, 15,000 students. That is where the Jets practice now in the summer. They did not this year and brings about four to 7 million dollars in income. Just time there, but it is not the same. Nothing's just been the same since it was in the 1950s.
JG (00:57:02):
I think it is different about Michael grew up on the edge of all this, he imagined it, but I think for me, Bowling for Columbine, that is where that exact place that you see is where I grew up and I cried the first 30 times. We watched all the way through. Every time we would reach out somebody we had watched it through and I could not stop crying at the end.
SM (00:57:27):
How have you been-
JG (00:57:31):
I think the foundation that is different is when you come from a place is risen and fallen and it is basically been destroyed. You understand that it is not a given that the world that we live in, can you? And I think people do not, because we move away from the places that are falling apart and we do not really feel in our guts. We know in our heads population thing and all this stuff that I think the interest between Michael and I, most people is when you come from Flint, Detroit, some part of you knows, you know this deep in your bones all things can change and go away.
SM (00:58:20):
Yeah. Well it is interesting because even though when I moved from starting seventh grade in this new community, I never considered it my community. My best years were my elementary school years and my college years. I never could adjust really to the changes that took place because Cortland was a much bigger place than being in Whitney Point in that area. We had a nice home and everything, had a good job, but we had some tough times too throughout the time. It was part of America, you have your ups and downs and how you deal with roadblocks and life and everything. I have always seen, when my parents were alive, I would always drive with them back to 10 Hamlin Street, which is where I grew up, the home my parents bought in 1946 after my dad came home from the war and they renovated it and then all of a sudden, we moved. On that street, Hamlin Street is still the same as it was back in the 1950s. It is families raising kids and most of the community has gone downhill, but that street has stayed almost and the houses, actually, the people live in the house now were the children of the people that bought the house from my parents. When I drove up a couple years ago, I was in front of the house, I never stopped, but they were painting it and I thought they might have moved. I said, "Is this house for sale?" And they said, the lady came out and said, "Who are you?" Said, "I am Steven McKiernan and I grew up here." And he says, "Ah, you are one of the three kids that grew up in this house." "Well, do you know me?" And I said, "Yeah, my parents bought the house from your parents." And I noticed downstairs in the cellar, somebody had written it, we had a bathroom downstairs. Somebody had written in the cellar, Steven McKiernan, Christine McKiernan and James McKiernan, and that was me. I wrote it when I was going to the bathroom one time. She said, "We never painted over it because it always reminded us of the children that were in this house before we came here." And she said, "And I got to tell you something else." She took me upstairs and they were renovating the upstairs area because her father was ill and needed a place, but he said, "I and my sister grew up in this room and we knew this was you and Jim's room." I could not believe it. Here she was revealing this. 30 some years later, it is just so I am very pleased with that they have taken care of the house, but I have always gone back to Cortland when I visit my sister in Binghamton because it brings back great memories of my childhood. I loved it in Cortland, so anyway.
JG (01:00:55):
Whatever, much has to be evil to adjust to these social things, but not the baby with the best mother, but that continuous upbringing where you stand a chance to have a teacher that your parents had and that I could walk to school and require people around the corner store where we got our bread and candy and meat. They live two doors down and their daughter babysit us, and that connected community-
SM (01:01:29):
Is no more.
JG (01:01:31):
Is the foundation of and stable education with great stable teachers. That is what allowed us to be so amazing as young people, and we misunderstood and thought that it was us tossing off the oppression that made us so creative. No, it was the gift that we were given.
SM (01:01:52):
That is very good.
JG (01:01:56):
And Steven that gift still means that we have a responsibility to understand the story we are in. Maybe the thing I will close with if you want is to-
SM (01:02:06):
No, you want to keep... You can go ahead.
JG (01:02:10):
I will just say one thing. Woodstock, the part of Woodstock, and I am using this as a metaphor as much as the actual attempt.
SM (01:02:26):
You got your answer on healing should be, it is going to be a very important part of your interview. That was a great response.
JG (01:02:35):
Well, one of the things I have learned is you feel good about yourself through doing good things and good work, and not because I am a specialty. We have gotten too far with the... Are you still-
SM (01:02:58):
Yeah, I am taping. I am back.
JG (01:03:01):
The thing that I wanted to be clear about is that, and this is what my movie will be about as soon I can get it done, is that we almost had it right, but we were confused because we wanted to live simply, we want to toss out the military industrial complex and we want to grow our own food and have home birth and travel again many of us. That was the correct vision for how humans should be living. What we failed to understand is that we are in a mess. It has got to take many generations to get back to the point where humans can live simply like that. Our mission though is to hold that in mind, not for ourselves, for seven to 10 generations from now. When we have got our population under control, people can be living in harmony with nature again. We have that vision, and that is my hope we can return to that before we die. That clarity, humans have to get back and down to the planet, and it was not for us, or it is not even for these children now, someday if there are survivors who would be living like people at Woodstock, except very simply and maybe with a little technology. I think there is a lot of hope in what was talked then. It is just we did not understand that our whole doing of that was contained in those years too. The partying and the narcissism.
SM (01:04:38):
You write your movie, I cannot wait for it. If it comes to Philly, I hope you come there for the premiere, because at the Ritz Theater, they do a lot of premieres there and they have actually producers that come and talk. They had one last week for a movie that I went to, and I hope that the Boomer generation is reaching 65 and maybe they need to reflect more. If you are talking 13,500 a day turning 65 for the next, God, 19 years, or excuse me, 15 years, that is a lot of people. If they can be talking and asking these same questions, conservatives, liberals, independence, no matter where they stand politically, they still got one fourth of their life still ahead of them. Many are going to have to continue to work because unfortunately we are living in a tough economy, but that does not mean they cannot work on some of these issues. And certainly those that, I hope they change retirement because retirement really is not retirement anymore. I hope it is not just about rich people moving to Florida and Arizona and taking six trips a year around the world. I know I cannot do that and most of the people I know cannot do that, but that is the dream that you see on TV, but in reality, this same generation that we were talking about that had such promise in your words, still is alive, still has a chance to do something to help correct what you are talking about.
JG (01:06:15):
What happened, understanding that my, if I could afford a dream house somewhere and to cruise around the world in my senior years. You know what? When we were 18, did not we know that that meant that somebody else was not having the resources to even be comfortable? We have got to get back into balance and take control again, and I think we could do that.
SM (01:06:42):
Any final thoughts you have on anything like the final thought on the legacy of this generation called Boomer? Do not forget too, that one thing I have found through this project is the Boomers are between 1946 and (19)64, but those Boomers in the first 10 years are much closer to a lot of the older members of what I call the silent generation. Those born between (19)40 and (19)45. Many of them were mentors and role models and leaders of the Anti-War Movement and all kinds of movements. And Richie Havens told me, he said, "When you talk about the spirit of the (19)60s, I may not be a Boomer within the terms of that sociologists and higher ed people label them, but I am a Boomer in spirit." So I have learned, and even Todd Gitlin told me that he cannot stand generational terms, he cannot stand the word Boomer generation, the greatest generation, Generation X, millennials. He cannot stand all that because he said we need to be more reflective of the times we live in and the events that shaped our lives and we do not have to be put into a nutshell, and so in some respects-
JG (01:07:58):
Yeah, I do not-
SM (01:07:59):
In some respects the people that were born safe from (19)38 to (19)45, or even closer to those Boomers of who were born between (19)46 and say (19)56 than those within the generation who were born in the first 10 years in the second 10 years.
JG (01:08:24):
If we were to talk for a while, my perspective is so different than so many people. The reason we kept this versions of the (19)50s is that we were the first generation that had the material wealth. Some are our dudes instead of our elders. It is not because the (19)50s were so horrible that we rebelled it. It is because we lived in such luxury that we had the privilege to rebel it.
SM (01:08:40):
We had the time to do it too.
JG (01:08:42):
The time to do it. You could live on very, very little in (19)66 to (19)97.
SM (01:08:47):
Right. Well, I do not have any anymore questions unless you want to add one? Any final thoughts?
JG (01:08:56):
Yeah, no, I think you are right. You understand how much the gift the (19)60s was from those that mentor did and thought things like what you got for you.
SM (01:09:13):
Oh yes.
JG (01:09:13):
Take care and we will-
SM (01:09:14):
Yeah. What I will need from you, Jeff, I am going to need two pictures-
(End of Interview)
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jeff Gibbs
-
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/8970244ceff5c67af8982e4508e9de32.jpg
a567404766718819f4ae581e25790925
https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/files/original/bf7aa9efca47d690bb47e9e02aa70609.mp3
f8f5b07883c9226c6090a7d6a4af0ab9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Audio interviews
Title
A name given to the resource
McKiernan Interviews
Description
An account of the resource
Stephen McKiernan's collection of interviews includes more than two hundred interviews with prominent figures of the 1960s, which were collected between the mid-1990s to 2023 The collection provides narratives of people who were actively involved in or witnessed events in the 1960s, an era which spurred profound cultural and political transformation in the twentieth century. Interviewees include politicians, artists, scholars, musicians, authors, and veterans who delve into the decade’s most prominent issues and events, including the civil rights movement, the free speech movement, the anti-war movement, women’s rights, gay rights, segregation, the Vietnam War, Woodstock, Hippies, Yippies, and individualism.<br /><br />
<h3>The McKiernan 22</h3>
<div>Stephen McKiernan interviewed legends of the 1960s. When asked in 2021 where one should start when sifting through his vast collection, he provided the following list:</div>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/854">Julian Bond</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1866">Bobby Muller</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1175">Craig McNamara</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/910">Dr. Arthur Levine</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/837">Diane Carlson Evans</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/942">Dr. Ellen Schrecker</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/876">Dr. Lee Edwards</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/841">Peter Coyote</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1233">Dr. Roosevelt Johnson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/899">Rennie Davis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1222">Kim Phuc</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/917">George McGovern</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/833">Frank Schaeffer</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/840">Rev. Dr. Frank Forrester Church </a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1240">Dr. Marilyn Young</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/842">James Fallows</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/835">Joseph Lee Galloway</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/911">John Lewis</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/839">Paul Critchlow</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/888">Steve Gunderson</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1159">Charles Kaiser</a></li>
<li><a href="https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/2407">Joseph Lewis</a></li>
</ul>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Stephen McKiernan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Binghamton University Libraries
Language
A language of the resource
English
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
In copyright.
Template: Simple Audio Player (Amplitude.js)
This template displays an audio player with the first attached image file as the 'cover image'. For its audio source, the template looks for the first attached audio file. If additional audio files exist, they should be combined using audio editing software, or a separate Omeka item should be made for each part.
Date of Interview
ND
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
Stephen McKiernan
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
James Humes
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
1:49:12
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University Libraries
Digital Format
audio/mp4
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
MicroCassette
Material Type
Sound
Interview Format
Video or Audio
Audio
Biographical Text
James Humes (1934 - 2020) was an author, lawyer, profesor, politician, and former presidential speechwriter. Humes earned his Bachelor's degree from Williams College and his Law degree from George Washington University. He was elected as a Republican to the Pennsylvania House of Representatives in 1962 and served as a speechwriter for Presidents Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan. Humes, a professor of Language and Leadership at the University of Southern Colorado, was the author of numerous books, including Nixon's Ten Commandments of Leadership and Negotiation, Confessions of a White House Ghostwriter, and The Wit and Wisdom of Winston Churchill.
Keywords
1960s; Anti-war protest; Richard Nixon; Class of people; War; Student protests; Vietnam; Vietnam War; Media; Protests; Generational gap; Baby Boomers.
Accessibility
Copy/Paste below:
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Binghamton University Libraries is working very hard to create transcriptions of all audio/visual media present on this site. If you require a specific transcription for accessibility purposes, you may contact us at <a href="mailto:orb@binghamton.edu">orb@binghamton.edu</a>.
Rights Statement
Many items in our digital collections are copyrighted. If you want to reuse any material in our collection you must seek permission, or decide if your purpose can qualify as fair use under the U.S. Copyright Law Section 107. If you think copyright or privacy has been violated, the University Libraries will investigate the issue. Please see our take down policy. If using any materials in this online digital collection for educational or research purposes, please cite accordingly.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
James Humes