David Sanyshyn

Ukrainian Oral History Project

Interview with: David Sanyshyn

Interviewed by: Kevin DeLuca and Kayla Jermansky

Transcriber: Kevin DeLuca and Kayla Jermansky

Date of interview: 6 April 2016 at 10:00 am

Interview Setting: Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church, Johnson City, NY

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(Start of Interview)

Kevin DeLuca: Hello, my name is Kevin DeLuca, and this is Kayla Jermansky, and we are here today at Sacred Heart Ukrainian Catholic Church on April 6th to interview David Sanyshyn. David Sanyshyn is a 3rd generation Ukrainian immigrant. He has agreed to speak to us about his personal experiences growing up as a Ukrainian, and we are interviewing him in order to learn more his personal experiences and cultural identity. We will also be discussing his childhood, what he considers to be his national identity, what influenced his grandparents to come to America, as well as any other insight he chooses to share with us.

Kayla Jermansky: So, you said you were born here in Binghamton. Specifically, you were born in this community?

David Sanyshyn: Yes, I grew up two houses down from the church.

KD: Is everyone in this community a Ukrainian immigrant?

DS: When I was born it wasn't unusual to hear Polish, Slovak, Russian or Ukrainian anywhere in the community. There was a lot of households that actually spoke all of them.

KJ: Do you still hear those languages today?

DS: Not really, most of the immigration has moved out along with the jobs.

KJ: Is there a reason you chose to stay instead of leaving?

DS: I like the area and it's just a beautiful place to live.

KD: What do you like most about it?

DS: The scenery and the change of seasons. Also, the mountains. My grandparents came from a place very similar to this in geography.

KD: Do you know why your grandparents came here?

DS: Jobs. My mother's side came to work in Syracuse and actually went back to Ukraine which was uncommon at the time. Then he came here with the intent of working. This was around 1910 and she saw that changes in the political atmosphere was getting pretty bad. So, she wrote him a letter and said if you can work there and make enough money to live then maybe there is a better place to live. Then he sent her money to have her transported here. My other grandparents came during WW1 and settled in New Jersey.

KJ: For more background info, can you tell us when you were born?

DS: 1950.

KD: What do you do for a living?

DS: Right now, I'm a retired software engineer.

KJ: What is your educational background?

DS: I have a 2-year degree that I got after I got out of the service.

KJ: How old were you when you joined the Navy?

DS: 18.

KD: What influenced you to serve in the Navy?

DS: The draft. The war was going on; if I didn't join the Navy I would've been drafted in the Army.

KD: Can you tell us a little more about your experience in the Navy?

DS: I made 2 tours in Vietnam and learned electronics. I saw a lot of different sights, a lot of different places: Guam, Hawaii, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Japan.

KJ: So, you are very well traveled.

DS: Yes, well they say join the Navy, see the world. It was interesting to see all of the different cultures.

KJ: How long did you serve?

DS: 4 years.

KD: Do you have any children?

DS: Yes.

KD: How many?

DS: 3 children and 4 grandchildren.

KJ: Did you meet your wife here?

DS: No, she's from Utica.

KD: Is she also Ukrainian?

DS: Yes, she's also Ukrainian. She is 2nd generation, her parents came after WW2.

KD: When did you start coming to this church?

DS: Right from birth. I was baptized here. Actually, before this church was here, my grandmother used to have a little Chapel in her house and a Brazilian priest used to come around once in a while and have masses.

KJ: How religious would you say you are?

DS: Pretty religious.

KD: Would you say this church helped you acclimate to Binghamton?

DS: Yes, because we always had a very close tie to the Church and being Ukrainian we always had a close tie to the traditions also. We still carry out all of the traditions. I still host Christmas Eve at our house and we've had as many as 52 at a sit-down dinner for Christmas Eve.

KD: How many brothers and sisters do you have?

DS: I have 5 sisters and 2 brothers.

KJ: How was that growing up with so many kids around?

DS: There was always a lot of people around, so it was always good. Plus, both of my parents came from big families. There were 9 or 10 kids in both of my grandparents' houses so there were always a lot of festivities, a lot of music and a lot of get together.

KD: Do you think having a big family is a Ukrainian tradition?

DS: It was a tradition because back then you wanted more hands to work the fields. At the turn of the century that was how you lived; as soon as spring hit you were working from sun up until sundown.

KD: What kinds of games did you play as a child?

DS: You know, just the regular kickball or baseball or basketball. Some type of ball.

KJ: Are there any specific Ukrainian games that your parents brought over?

DS: Not really, my parents weren't big game players. There was always a lot of work to do with the farm.

KJ: What was it like growing up with your parents, were they strict?

DS: I wouldn't say they were strict. They helped instill important values. They always practiced what they preached.

KD: How do you think your experience would be different if you grew up in Ukraine instead of here?

DS: It definitely would have been more of an agricultural society. There would also be a lot of different cultures.

KJ: We have learned that Ukraine is known as a "melting pot".

DS: Yes, my mother's side of the family, I believe, are actually Ukrainians living in Poland. It actually used to be part of Ukraine at one point.

KD: Did your grandparents always identify as Ukrainian?

DS: Yes.

KD: What would you identify yourself as now?

DS: Ukrainian American.

KJ: Have you ever visited Ukraine?

DS: No.

KD: Did you ever plan to?

DS: I think it would be interesting just to see it. Of course, now you can just look on the internet.

KD: Is there a reason that you didn't?

DS: Well, for one thing, the border was closed for a long time. It wasn't until 1992 that they opened it up. We did have some visitors, though. My wife's cousin came from Ukraine.

KJ: Was it difficult for your grandparents to find work here?

DS: No, I don't think so. My mother's father worked here on the railroad and after he moved here the second time he was working in EJ. I don't know if you've ever heard the term "which way EJ".

Both: No.

DS: That was because Endicott Johnson employed people and he needed people to work in the shoe factory. So, that was the saying for immigrants once they got off the boat, they'd say "which way EJ". The idea was they were going to come here to work in this area; that's how a lot of people got settled here.

KJ: How would you say your grandparents' experience was first coming here?

DS: It was difficult but that's why they hung in different communities. My grandfather actually lived up on a hill here and he used to grow vegetables. They bought some farms up here and started farming, which is what they did best. They raised their kids and they all went off and did things.

KD: Do you have any remaining family members still in Ukraine?

DS: I'm not sure. From what I understand my grandfather was from a family of 16 and we haven't kept up with all of them.

KD: Has your family brought over any Ukrainian traditions that you still practice today?

DS: Oh yeah. Christmas Eve supper, a 12-course meal, and we put hay on the table. There's always a dish with barley or wheat and honey and nuts or raisins. Then, we had Barsch which is a type of fish. We had sauerkraut and some lima beans. And there are a couple of other smaller dishes.

KJ: Are there any other smaller traditions that you guys have?

DS: Well on Easter in Ukraine they would perform these dances and songs and the kids would all join in. They still do it around here but not as much, it's not as practical as it used to be. They also used to have water fights the day after Easter. The girls would go after the guys and the guys would go after the girls.

KJ: Have your parents passed down any traditions to you that you still do?

DS: We still do Christmas Eve dinner and on Easter we will have a big breakfast. There's eggs, ham, pasta, potato salad and stuff like that.

KD: Are there any daily traditions or just ways of living that could be different from someone that isn't Ukrainian?

DS: Well my kids have always told me that we were different because for one thing I have a large piece of land- I have 40 acres and I built my own house. Then they got to college and were surprised that nobody builds their own houses anymore. My father worked carpentry for quite a while and there are a lot of things that he showed me. As a matter of fact, when I got out of the service that is what I wanted to do. You know, build a house and sell it, build a house and sell it. I saved money up when I was in the service and then when I got out of the service my parents had built a house next to the one we have up here. My father came to me and said, "You see that house, you can't build it and sell it for enough to make money on it." So, I said, well I know electronics, so I got hired in GE and worked there for about a year then I worked for IBM for a while. They had this last layoff in 2009 and that's when I retired.

KJ: So, you would say you had a good career path?

DS: Yeah, it's interesting because now my sons are growing up now and working, and with all of the costs and student loans it's hard making ends meet. I don't mean to scare you but that's what a lot of people are experiencing.

KD: Where did your children go to school?

DS: Whitney Point.

KD: Is that in the community?

DS: Whitney Point is up I-81 about 20 miles.

KJ: So, they stayed local. Did they ever consider leaving?

DS: My son is still here, and my 2 daughters are back in Raleigh. Both of them are teachers down there. My older daughter was actually working at IBM when they started making the layoffs. So, then she went down there with my younger daughter.

KJ: So that's Raleigh, North Carolina, right?

DS: Raleigh, yes.

KD: Have you ever thought about leaving Binghamton?

DS: No, when I got out of the service I bought my aunt's share of my grandparents' farm and I got 33 acres out of that. Then my parents had more that they split up between me and my brothers and sisters.

KD: Did all of your siblings stay in Binghamton too?

DS: I have 2 sisters and 1 brother that stayed in the area. I have a brother in Ryder, New York and a sister in Queens. Then I have a sister in Cary, North Carolina, and I have another sister in Austin, Texas. My brother lives next door to me and my sister lives around the corner.

KJ: Very close family.

DS: Yes, we all experienced everything together. Even when we are apart we still remember our roots.

KJ: Do you have any particular memories from when you were a kid?

DS: Just the area. We used to go sledding around the roadside here, it's called Old Dale Hill Road. We would start up here at the Church and sled down the road. This area is loaded with fruit trees: plums, cherries, apples, peaches. Like I said my grandfather had tons of fruit, strawberries too. He would always get them out earlier than everyone else, like 2 weeks, and he'd always make out well on the strawberries with people, being the first one of the season.

KJ: That sounds like an interesting childhood.

DS: Yeah, I was a country boy because this is the outskirts here. This was all farm area around here still. I was an early riser, gone early morning, my mother would yell at me "Where'd you go?"

KD: Do you think if your parents had settled in a bigger city your childhood would have been different?

DS: Yes. We've had several different relatives that grew up in big cities and it seems like most of the kids got messed up. Maybe a couple of them were okay but most of them really had problems.

KD: What do you think the biggest difference is living in the city?

DS: It's hard to be as cultural in the city. You seem to have a lot less, I mean you have a small community here, where you knew the people and your parents knew who you were playing with and stuff like this, and in the city, you don't know where you're going.

KJ: That is true, yeah. I think you could consider us both city kids, right Kevin?

Do you consider yourself a city kid?

KD: Yeah.

KJ: Yeah, we grew up in the city.

DS: Where did you grow up?

KJ: I grew up in Brooklyn.

D. Brooklyn, okay. I had relatives in the Bronx.

KJ: Yeah, it's a different atmosphere.

D. Yeah, we visited down there, somewhere in Jersey City, and the others are in the Bronx.

KJ: It's a very different change coming to Binghamton from the city, I'll tell you that.

DS: Yeah from Whitney Point, where you're driving a tractor to work.

KJ: So, you said that there are/were multiple ethnic groups within the community, right? How would you say that affected your life growing up, or your perspective?

D. Well, we were always aware of who we are, of who we were and who they were. And it was something that was respected too, okay you're this, you're that, and people identified with what they were. Today, everybody wants to mold it to a mold; you're not this, you're not that, you're not anything.

KD: So, does that help you stay connected to your culture?

DS: Yeah, and also a lot of the same interests. Music was a common interest, and we had close ties to music. My grandfather actually when he came to this country was a musician and all my--he played the cimbalom and the sopilka. The cimbalom, I don't know if you've ever seen it, it's like a trapezoid instrument, it's played with two sticks. And the sopilka is a flute, so he used to play the flute, and all my mother's brothers and some sisters actually played instruments, so that's why you could say there was a lot of music around.

KJ: Are you a musician?

DS: I played the accordion. I used to play in an ethnic band, a Ukrainian band from Syracuse.

KJ: Do you still play it?

DS: When I can. When my arthritis doesn't hurt. My brother plays too, and my sister played piano, and my mom, actually, two of my sisters, played piano.

KJ: That's nice. So, music had a very big impact in your life then?

DS: Oh yeah.

KJ: Was that something that your parents brought over or was that just an interest of yours?

DS: I think it was an interest because of how I was exposed to it, because they played, and I mean, my uncle actually, Geraldine, my uncle, he would, he played the piano and the accordion. He could play the piano at the concert level, I mean he could do show panel, you know what I'm saying? He used to just show her off because he was an appliance repair man, and he'd go to somebody and fix their refrigerator and there'd be a piano there and he'd sit down, and it'd be a show. [Imitates show music] And his family was a big influence, he influenced, that's where I got the accordion interest from, and he also turned out to be our choir director in Church. And now his son is the choir director, he died a couple of years ago.

KD: How would you say your children's experiences have differed from your own here?

DS: The children's experiences? Well they grew up in a different time, there wasn't that much. I mean they were tied here locally at the Church, but not as you know, because you know when this was local, all the kids you went to school with were your neighbors here. And now as we moved out, now you're in a country area. My son was the first group to ride the bus on our road, because it was originally just a field access road, I think there was barely enough room to get the horse and wagon through. And then they finally widened it when they opened the park up there, because the Binghamton Greenwood Park, is right down the road from us. My grandparents' farm went right up to the park, actually my father used to, I used to go there in the wintertime for the milk house. And so, they, they weren't as connected there, they were more just connected in the Church, but they had a different time like I said. They kind of grew up in something different because of the property and the fact that I built my own house, did all my own work. But now they're out on their own.

KJ: So, you've seen Binghamton go through some pretty big changes from then, how would you say, what do you think are the biggest changes Binghamton's gone through?

DS: Loss of jobs. Loss of jobs and the moving out, you know the children moved out. The people that had left the area, and the industries had left the area all by design.

KD: So, if your grandparents were coming to America now, you don't think they would come to Binghamton?

DS: No, what would there be for them?

KD: Where do you think they would have gone instead?

DS: If they were coming now, I don't know what, well for one thing it'd be a different reason why they were coming, right? Okay, things were very, life was very hard there. There was this idea of hey jobs, you could get jobs, you could better yourself, that's why they came. You're coming now, I don't know why they'd come. I mean although there is, there are people that are coming now, but I'm not sure, I don't know that many from Ukraine that are coming.

KD: Is there anything about American culture that stands out to you? From all the places you've been when you were in the Navy?

DS: Well my answer's quite different between here and like the Philippines. Totally different. Philippines gets a lot of rain, actually I was in some of the same places my father was during World War II. It was on in that there, the people are totting rice paddies, flood's going on. They're standing there with their little Coke, Coca-Cola, on the corner. You know there's this much water up there.

KJ: That's really interesting. Is there anything specific that you remember from the War, like in any of the places that you've been to? Any good memories that you have?

DS: Oh, they were all good memories. The only thing, I made two Westpac cruises to Vietnam, and the squadron I had, I was assigned to, had just came off of their training cruise. And I wish I could've done both, because it sounded like they had a totally different experience, because we were always going into ports and there was a ship you know, carrier coming in every week, 5000 guys. They had been talking to some of the guys that had come off the Mediterranean Cruise. They went on a cruise that no American ship had been on in like 5 or 10 years. And he says you go in there and the people would invite you in, they'd invite you right in their house. Certainly, a suburb. You'd drink, it was just totally different. Barcelona, Mediterranean, area there. It was quite different.

KD: That's a really interesting experience. Most people, I would think, don't have as positive of an experience coming from the War.

DS: I was on ship, I worked in the radio pool and I was actually in the Navy for two hours. That was the only time I actually spent on the thing, but we had planes coming up shot up, stuff like that. So there was actually a fire on our carrier one time, plane came in and the main mount broke, so when it landed and the main mount broke it tilted up, and when it tilted up it came loose from the cable that catches it, cause when it lands it catches the cable, and when it did that it reared off and crashed against a bunch of planes on the bow and started a fire. But, they had the fire out in 20 seconds. They had this guy in his vest suit, and he has this nozzle with PKB powder, wet water they call it, and they just go in there and just gut the fire out and push the plane through the other side.

KJ: That's amazing. Was anyone hurt?

DS: They lost 5 people, 1 was the pioneer on the plane that crashed. He had ejected, but when he ejected he was at an angle, so instead of going up and going down, he fell off that way.

KJ: That's terrible. Are you still close to any of the men that you worked with during the War? Do you speak to any of them?

DS: No, the only one I ever met, and this was years later, was actually in Owego. I looked over and there was my Chief that was my Chief on ship. I had a bench across from his office, and I looked over and he remembered me. Chief Chancy. He was preparing a training manual for the helicopters that they build here. That was about the only one I've ever met.

KD: So, you weren't able to retain your ties with them?

DS: No, at that time, I mean, I am buddies, but we weren't that close to where we corresponded or anything. Course there wasn't e-mail or anything like this, you know, so you don't know where in a couple of years, you know they're someplace.

KD: So, you must have all came from different areas then?

DS: Yeah. George was from, George Brown was from Texas, another guy from Nebraska, and there was a guy from New York here, Utica area.

KJ: How do you think that changed your experience, meeting people from different areas?

DS: It was, it gave me a great deal of, what's the word I want to use, confidence. That I could be myself, be with all these other people, and still be myself and my identity. You knew this guy and what he did, and they knew you and what you did and where you were from, and nobody says well I can never associate with you because you're from here, or because you're that. So, in that sense it gave me a deep set of confidence, and also learning because I was in Old Giants program, the aviation. That was a tough one. Because I had the, where I went to school in Memphis, after I got out of boot camp, they had the top 20, they would give you a test, the top 25 guys would go on this accelerated course. Well there was me and another guy were the only 2 guys that only had a high school education. There was guys in there that had Masters in physics or a Masters in Math. One guy had a Masters in sociology. So, me and this other guy, we were, they lowered the score to get us in the same class. That was tough.

KJ: What would you say is one of your biggest life accomplishments?

DS: Biggest life accomplishments? Probably building my house. Making it through.

KJ: I would say that's a pretty big accomplishment.

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DS: And it continues on today now that I've retired, and I got a big orchard with over a 100 blueberry plants, 50 strawberries, not strawberry, blackberry and raspberry plants. Make my own wine, make my own sauerkraut.

KJ: That's amazing. Did anybody teach you how to do that, or you learned on your own?

DS: I looked online. I still can make some wine because I got all these blueberries, so I looked it up and okay, you know, they tell you to prepare it. Put these tablets in and you know here's the yeast, you got to get some yeast, you put the yeast in. Well I put the yeast in and it bubbled a few times and stopped. So, I said, oh, so I went online again, and it said 10 reasons why fermentation stops, and well, one thing was my temperature where I had the wine was too low. It's got to be between 70 and 75 so I kind of made this incubator so to speak, I had one of my electric thermostats, because I put electric heat around the house, I put it in there and plugged it all in. Set this for 75 and that blew up, then I also found out that the blueberries, or wild berries, everything about making wine is geared towards grapes. Grapes have natural enzymes and stuff, so I found out that you had to add these enzymes and also there isn't that much sugar, because you can't use just all berries, because you would get too much undesirables, so you diluted it. I think it was 5 gallons of berries that mashed down to about 2 gallons and I did the rest of it with water. So, you have to add these nutrients back in to get it to fermented. Once I did that and tried it again it took off and made a good batch of wine. So, every year for Christmas I have that wine.

KJ: Do you sell it ever?

DS: No, you can't sell it.

KJ: Oh wait, do you need the license?

DS: You'd need a license. In fact, in different years we have berries. I'm getting my own berries and so does my cousin, he has other plants too and the guy that lives across the street had 165 plants. But nothing had been done to them in 35 years, so they weren't able to grow. I mean his brother was 6 feet 6 and he couldn't reach them. He had to get in there and you couldn't walk through them. We actually, my cousin and I, went over there after season and we went in and trimmed them, where you couldn't even walk between the rows. We had them, so you could drive a tractor through. So that's, that I would inherit to my, well no I was going to say from a different point of view, that I attribute to my upbringing, doing don't worry about how to do it, go ahead and do it, you'll figure it out one way, some way or the other. I mean cause not only did I build my house; I did all of my own plumbing, all of my own electric, all the deciding, all that stuff.

KJ: That's very strong values to have.

DS: Yeah now my son's doing it. He's doing a little bit of stuff, actually I have a saw mill too, I cut my own logs. The addition I put on my house was all done in pine and I actually made the flooring for it too, done in ash.

KJ: That's amazing. All the houses I see are brick so that's quite a different perspective.

DS: Yeah that was an experience too because I had these logs and I had to get them cut up and then I saw an advertisement for a saw, but it was kind of small, so I expanded it after I bought it and then I expanded it again, so I could get a much bigger log out of there. But now I harvested quite a few trees and ran them through the still, not the still, the kiln. I had a solar kiln that I built, somehow, I had maple, ash, cherry, oak, spalted beech.

KJ: So, what else do you spend your time doing, other than all of that?

DS: I'm still doing some remodeling. I just finished the pantry and I'm getting ready to do hardwood floors on the rest of the house.

KD: So, do you see your family living here for a long time in the future?

DS: As long as they got something to do, some place to, you know, some place to, that's one of the problems you know as people move out, finding when they come back they have to have a place to stay, otherwise they won't visit. Okay it's like you, if you were back in your hometown and you could stay at your parents' house, you know even after you get married. Go visit them, you'd probably might visit them.

KJ: So, what would you say that you value the most in life?

DS: Value the most in life? My religion.

KD: So, would you say you're proud of identifying as Ukrainian?

DS: Yeah.

KD: In what ways does that make you most proud? Like what are the specific?

DS: Well I don't think it's a matter of pride, it's a matter of who I am. And I'm okay with that. You want to be something else, be something else. But you know this is what I am, you know I'm not, I'm not a mixture, somebody else is going to build their own house, plant berries, that's what I like to, that's what I do. Somebody else has different interests, that's them.

KJ: It seems like you have a very strong sense of identity. How would you kind of categorize what your identity means to you? Like what exactly does being Ukrainian mean to you?

DS: It's the Church practices, the religion, the traditions. There's many different, one of the things growing up as being Ukrainian is you have to know who you are and how you're different from everybody else. So, you have a more stronger sense of where you came from, why these things are your traditions, what they are. Why you have certain feelings, you know I have certain feelings. I mean one of them, I have a great love for mountainous area. I mean that was one thing when I went across country and you know everything's flat until you hit Ohio. When I drove home from the service, when I got out, being in flat land makes me nervous. It's like I'm on a big hill but I can't see the edge. But I love the mountains and you know when I look where my grandparents came from, my wife's father always talked about finding the mountains which are a lot taller than New York. But he also had the same thing, he loves mushrooms that was the other thing I, I have a dilemma when I go to the woods because I like to hunt, and I like mushrooms, and I did the logging. So, I'm in the woods and I go well that's a nice tree, I could make a, oh look at these mushrooms, oh wait you're hunting!

KJ: Sounds like you have a very busy life going on.

DS: Yeah, I just never was one to sit around and do nothing.

KD: So, you mentioned that you have a strong sense of who you are and how

You're different from other types of cultures. What would you say makes you the most different from any other culture?

DS: The most different from any other, I don't think there's that much difference, I think in every culture you have people who are stronger, people that value time and are always producing something. You know I wouldn't see myself as being different, different in a sense that I'm different from everybody else. I just have these values that I worked towards, and some people have other values that they worked towards.

KJ: So, we're coming towards the end of the interview. We have like 8 minutes left.

KD: How do you think your opinions would be different if you came here by yourself? Like if you were the one that came to America?

DS: How would my opinions be different? I don't know if my opinions would be different, what I would face would be different, and how I would have gotten here would be different. My grandparents faced what was going on in that time, and in this country isn't the same as it was 100 years ago when they came here. The situation's not the same as what they came under 100 years, it's a lot different from when I was born. I mean I could still remember my one channel on TV, no microwaves, and it was strange that we were cleaning out my mother's house, she died here on Easter, and we were cleaning her house and there was this thing. And my brothers and sisters didn't know what it was, and it was the floodlights they used to use for making video cameras cause your video camera now, you don't need it, but they used to have 4 big floodlights and they used to walk around to make a 50 minute, a 50-foot reel thing. So, there's a lot of things that are different there, but they're both different here and different from where I had come from, if I was to just come here by myself.

KD: Did your parents ever tell you anything about coming over, travel wise?

DS: My parents didn't come here, my grandparents, when you talked to them it was the equivalent of going from here to Philadelphia with whatever you had on your back or whatever you could carry. And maybe that trip to get to the boat and come over here, when you're on the boat.

KD: Did they ever go back after they came here?

DS: Well my grandfather did go back at the time, the one grandfather, my mother's father. The others they never went back. Of course, most of it was that they were from Ukraine, so it was closed up after World War I, after Stalin, Lenin, overtook Ukraine and they corresponded and it was very sporadic.

KJ: Did they have good experiences, like do they remember Ukraine fondly or is it more of a bittersweet memory?

DS: It's probably bittersweet. They liked some of the things, but life was hard over there, it was. You worked all year and all summer long, morning to night, to survive.

KJ: Yeah, it's a very difficult lifestyle. Did any of your grandparents fight in the war?

DS: I don't believe so. My father was in the war, my wife's father, he was in World War II. He actually fought in UFA, which was the Ukrainian army. He actually fought in most of the service, and the communists. Well they actually fought against the communists because Ukraine at the time saw communism just as bad, worse, than they say Nazism. There was a lot of guys that came over here that did fight for them and they were scared. They were scared for a long time that someone was going to come for them.

KJ: I can imagine. So, we have a couple minutes left, so is there anything that you would like to add to the interview that we didn't already discuss?

DS: It's good to see you doing this. I mean it's always good to share what you know. That's one of the things that I think, one of the worst things now is I built my own house, I have all these other things I've done, but there's not anybody really to take any of that knowledge. I mean either from there's nobody that has an interest, which is a problem. I mean we're looking at my parents' house and there's nobody that wants a fixer-upper. They want to go in, give me a TV and internet connection and let somebody else do the work. That's not a good attitude to have.

KD: So, have you had a chance to share your story with anyone else?

DS: Not directly like this, I mean I always shared with my kids, I mean they know a lot of the stories and stuff and they remember what they grew up with. And my son now, he's on his own, he's doing stuff to his house. He's picked it up and thought oh I want to do this and do that. So now he's doing it. He was just at my place making his own molding for his house. He told molding out and was exchanging it for pine molding.

KJ: That's nice. I mean you could consider this your legacy, which is pretty cool to have. You know you're going to go into the records, people will be able to see what your life was like. It's very interesting. Well, thank you for speaking with us.

KD: Thank you for your time.

KJ: This was very informative.

DS: Oh, you're welcome. There's lots of things that people used to have, even driving in this area and what used to be here and what isn't.

(End of Interview)