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Interview with Aristaks Kachadourian
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Transcription
Armenian Oral History Project
Interview with: Aristaks Kachadourian
Interviewed by: Jacqueline Kachadourian
Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty
Date of interview: 29 September 2017
Interview Setting: Binghamton
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(Start of Interview)
0:08
JK: This is Jacqueline Kachadourian with Binghamton University’s Special Collections library, Armenian Oral History Project. Today is September 29, 2017. Can you please state your name for the record?
0:21
AK: Aristaks Kachadourian.
0:24
JK: And where were you born?
0:27
AK: Johnson City, New York.
0:30
JK: And–
0:31
AK: –December 12, 1932.
0:34
JK: And who were your parents?
0:39
AK: Um, Alice and Parsec Kachadourian.
0:45
JK: And where were they born?
0:50
AK: In Harput, Turkey. My father was born in the s–village of Aşvan my mother was born in the village of ̶
1:06
JK: And, um, why did they imi– did– they immigrated to the United States, correct?
1:14
AK: Not directly. My father came by way of Ellis Island and my mother came by way of Canada.
1:25
JK: And–
1:29
AK: –Um and she came to the United States, um, from Canada, with her brother.
1:42
JK: And did they meet in the villages in Harper or they met?
1:49
AK: No, no. They met in Massachusetts. [indistinct] Right. Now my mother and father met in Massachusetts, in Providence, Rhode Island.
2:06
JK: Okay. And so what was the reasoning for emigrating to–what was their reasoning to come to the United States?
2:14
AK: I think primarily to, um, avoid the massacres that were occurring in, um, central Turkey.
2:31
JK: Now, were they directly associated with the massacres? Did it happen during their time–
2:36
AK: –No, but they had heard about–my father essentially, um, avoided being rounded up by the Turks in the village and he was able to escape, um, from the village by, uh, jumping into the water and swimming for his freedom. My mother, um, came by way of, um, Turkey to Lebanon where she met her uncle and she was able to save up enough money and afford passage to Marseilles, France and from Marseilles she went to Canada.
3:37
JK: And do you remember what time frame or year?
3:39
AK: Time frame was somewhere around 1927, 1927.
3:47
JK: Okay and, um, when your father was escaping the Turkish shoulder– soldiers, um, did they leave behind any family, uh, to escape, or–? Do you know of any stories?
4:06
AK: I really do not know the other circumstances by which he came over but the thing which attracted him to Binghamton, New York. He was staying in Worcester, Massachusetts with relatives. And from there he, um, came to visit his cousin in Binghamton and decided to stay after he was able to obtain a job working at the Endicot, Endicott Johnson shoe Corporation. That was what made him emigrate to the Binghamton area.
4:53
JK: And, um, while they, while your parents lived in the villages in Turkey, did they speak, what languages did they speak?
5:00
AK: They spoke Turkish and Armenian.
5:02
JK: Okay. And did that pass along to you and your siblings?
5:06
AK: Not the Turkish, although my Armenian is mixed with a lot of Turkish words. Um, I did not know the difference between the two. Neither did my brothers and sisters. Some words the– my parents would use, uh, that were Turkish, and I thought they were Armenian, but how was I to differentiate between the two?
5:35
JK: Um, do you recall any stories that your parents told about living in the villages?
5:40
AK: Oh, yeah, my mother, uh, the last she saw of her mother was, uh, when she was a child, she remembers being, uh, placed in a Protestant orphanage home and the last she saw of her mother was running down the street I assumed from the Turk– Turkish, uh, soldiers or police. And that was the last time she saw her mother. Her mother never came back to the orphanage to pick her up. She was about eleven, twelve years old.
6:21
JK: So, she was all by herself?
6:23
AK: She was by herself.
6:25
JK: Did she have any brothers or sisters?
6:29
AK: No. The only brother she had was the one that was being carried, uh, by her mother while she was running from the Turkish authorities. Her brother somehow came to the United States. She had one brother that I know that was living in, um, in Lowell, Massachusetts, and he, she had a father that had emigrated to the United States in nineteen ten. And he died of tuberculosis in the United States. Uh, in Lowell, Massachusetts. I know that he is buried there with my uncle, my mother's brother who came to Canada. I do not know if he was in contact with his father, who passed away with tuberculosis. But that is the only thing that I can remember. My uncle had a job. I think it was in the shoe factories in Lowell, Massachusetts. And he learned of my mother coming from Marcy, France to, um, Canada and he went to Canada and brought her. I do not know whether it was in Toronto that he went and got her or Montreal, I am not sure. I think it was Toronto. That, and this was about 1926, 1927.
8:21
JK: And so her brother came to America first, before she did?
8:24
AK: Yes, her father came first. Then her brother came here. The father had come here first to earn enough money to bring his family from Turkey to the United States. But she got the money that he sent to her to, um, come to the United States, but instead she used the money to buy a farm [laughs] and that is about all I know about it.
8:58
JK: And the farm was located in, uh, Turkey or America?
9:01
AK: No, that was, what was that?
9:06
JK: Was the farm located where? In Turkey or–?
9:10
AK: No, she did not bother to buy the farm. This was in the village of ̶
9:14
JK: Okay.
9:15
AK: In Turkey.
9:15
JK: Okay.
9:16
AK: That she was supposed to use the money.
9:19
JK: And so her father left before the genocide occurred
9:23
AK: Oh yes, he came about–he came about 1910. There was another genocide back in 1909 that, in fact those three genocides one in 1896, one 1909, in fact, the one in 1996, I mean 1896 was when my wife Adrian, her father came over as a child at three at the age of three around 1896. That was the first genocide. The second genocide was in 8– 1909. And that was when, uh, my mother's father emigrated to the United States to earn money to pay for bringing his family over. But her mother never bought the, bought the–uh, used the money to come to the United States, she bought a farm instead.
10:32
JK: And the two other gen–the two other genocides that–genocides that occurred beforehand, um, your fa ̶ your mother survived both of them?
10:41
AK: No, my mother, my mother survived the 1896 one. Uh, she was old, she was not born in when the genocide of 1909. But that was when her father came to the United States. In (19)– I am sorry 1909, he came to the United States. She did not come until much later around 1915 or 1916.
11:13
JK: And you remember what year she, do you remember what year she was born in?
11:18
AK: She was born in 19 ̶ give me a second– to the United States around 1915, 1916. She was born in 1909, 1904.
11:46
JK: Okay.
11:48
AK: Gee I should have to go look at the tombstone.
11:53
JK: And, um, for the past two genocides 9– 1896 and 1909, that was with Armenia and Turkey– and Turkey?
12:02
AK: Yes, that was between the Armenians and the Turks.
12:07
JK: Okay. And, um, it was, I am assuming it was with the villages in Turkey?
12:12
AK: –Yeah.
12:13
JK: –That they started in.
12:14
AK: Yeah. Yeah. It was in the–the state or province of ̶ and no, in, um, in Harput, Harput. Harput was the name of the province.
12:37
JK: Okay. And, um, was there mass killings in– during those massacres or–?
12:43
AK: There probably was, but that was much later.
12:48
JK: Okay. And, and for your father, did you experience any of these, uh, other two genoc– or other two massacres?
12:55
AK: He was a young boy at the time he was about twelve, thirteen years old. He was born around 1900.
13:06
JK: Okay.
13:06
AK: So he would have been about (19)14, (19)15 fifteen when that took place.
13:11
JK: And–
13:12
AK: –Brought him to Binghamton, of course, so his– he was able to get a job here at the Endicott Johnson shoe factory. And that was what– he was living with my cousin.
13:26
JK: And, uh, do you recall any stories about him living in Harput? Do you recall any sto– do you remember him telling you stories–
13:34
AK: –Any stories at Harput? Not really. I have forgotten a lot of them I would have to think about it. Some of the time when I can rehash some of these stories.
13:49
JK: Of course. Um, do you remember the escape, how he escaped?
13:58
AK: Here, the only– he, um, ran from the village with his older brother, but he remembers the story that his brother was captured. And he survived the, the, um, arrests that were going on in the village, and he remembers that his brother escaped by jumping in the river and he was wounded with a shot in the side of his head. But he was able to swim in the river and get away, escape. His, uh, brother escaped to France and remained there and yeah he never came to the United States. But he has a–his name was Minas Kachadourian and his family settled in Marcy, France and ultimately in Leone, Leone, Leone, um, France.
15:17
JK: And they leave any other family members back in, uh, the village of Harput or–?
15:23
AK: The only one I know about was my father's brother in– that, uh, escaped with him to France. My bir–my father ultimately wanted to come to the United States, his brother stayed in France.
15:45
JK: Now growing up, did your parents talk about what occurred in Turkey?
15:51
AK: They did not talk very much about the–the massacres only that they would mention them but they would not relay any definite stories because they were such sad stories that they tried to suppress the thoughts of these episodes.
16:18
JK: Okay, going back to the life in Binghamton, um, do you have any siblings growing up?
16:27
AK: Yes, I have, uh, four siblings. My sister Louise, um, Henry, Arslan, Garabed.
16:46
JK: And, um, growing up did, uh, your parents speak Armenian to you in the household?
16:54
AK: They spoke Armenian and bro– broken English. What–what they learned by their communication with people in the community, but mostly they spoke Armenian to us.
17:10
JK: And, uh, when–when they came to the United States, your parents, did–they did not know English, I assume, right?
17:16
AK: No, they did not have any English at all. They learned gradually by their contact with the American population.
17:26
JK: And from your stance, they want to keep the Armenian culture and your family strong?
17:34
AK: Oh, yes. We have an Armenian Church, which was acquired in 1927. But let us see my parents were married in 1927. They met in maybe 1925, 1926. And, uh, my father, when visiting– the way they had met was my father, when, uh, visiting to Massachusetts, I guess he was looking to marry an Armenian woman there. But he met my mother instead. And I think this way the story was but the Armenian woman did not want to marry, marry my father. He wanted, so that he had purchased a ring to get engaged with and, and he let us see. And she did not want him so he went looking for another woman and met my mother and she essentially, uh, wanted to get married and ended up meeting my father and he brought her back to Binghamton and got married in Binghamton at the Trinity Memorial Church in Binghamton which is located on the corner of Main and Oak Street.
19:22
JK: And the reasoning that they stayed in Binghamton is because your father had a job–
19:28
AK: Had a job here, and they were living on Colfax Avenue with my, uh, cousin. And they were living on the third floor of my cousin's home.
19:45
JK: And do you recall in Lowell, Massachusetts, did they have a big Armenian community from the–
19:51
AK: In Massachusetts. Oh, yes, there is a large Armenian community. The first Armenian Church in the United States is located in Worcester, Massachusetts. And then subsequently parishes were formed or built, uh, in Providence Boston, Worcester. The largest community at the time, I think was in Worcester, Massachusetts. But then they began to spread all over the northeastern United States.
20:29
JK: And in Binghamton, New York, where you grew up in, um, was there a large Armenian community? No it was small but it, it grew. The community gradually increased with the advent of Armenians being able to work in the shoe corporations in Binghamton. There were many shoe, uh, factories, uh, Endicott Johnson being the largest on the west side of Binghamton. Uh, Dunn McCarthy's, uh, on the south side was Gotham shoe factories so that Armenians on the south side began to live on the south side because they worked at the shoe factory on the west side of Binghamton, and the second and third wards and fourth wards and Binghamton. Uh, most of the Armenians work that the Dunn McCarthy shoe factory.
21:35
JK: Okay. And, um, from this area, did you have a– so were the Armenians living close by from one another?
21:44
AK: Oh yes, they all lived, all the Armenians lives within walking distance from each other. The– there was a large group of Armenians who lived in the first ward, second ward and third ward. And most of them went to the Protestant churches here because there was no Armenian Church in, at that time and the Armenian Church was not, uh, purchased–it was purchased from the Ross Memorial Church, Ross Memorial, um, Episcopal Church on the south side. My Armenians on the south side went to that church. On the west side, some of them went to the congregation church on the corner of, um, Main and Front Street. But, and also a large number on the, uh, west side went to the Main Street Baptist Church on the corner of Main and Chestnut Street. This is where the churches are still located.
23:00
JK: And, um, so you are–and when you were growing up as a child, you went to the Armenian Church?
23:08
AK: Well–
23:09
JK: –When it was–
23:09
AK: –Whenever they had service, whenever they could get a priest to visit the Armenian Church, um, which was about four or five times a year was when the, uh, parish council were able to get a priest to come up and perform service and baptize some of the children.
23:33
JK: So you guys did not have priests for regular service?
23:37
AK: We did not have a regular service, but we had a priest sent to us by the diocese. In fact, we, my brother and I, Arslan and I, um, were not baptized until we were about eleven, twelve years old
23:57
JK: Oh okay. And, um, so growing up, did you attend church every time there was a service?
24:05
AK: When, whatever there was a service here, yes.
24:08
JK: And–
24:09
AK: My cous– I remember my cousin, uh, picking us up and driving us to the church, because we did not have a car at the time.
24:21
JK: And, um, for the services, they were once every few months, or–?
24:28
AK: I would say about once every three, three–four months was when we had sort of church service. Transportation was difficult at that time. We used to see the priests coming, I believe, from New York City. And at that time, it took about six to seven hours, by car or by, uh, train, however they came.
24:58
JK: And once the church was built, um, do you think the Armenian community grew stronger in Binghamton?
25:06
AK: Yes, the community became closer together because that was the one, one and only time every two to three or four months, that they would get together and have a dinner after a church service so that they could prolong the time of contact together. But they became stronger as the children also grew in the area and attended the schools. The number of children, uh, multiplied tremendously.
25:44
JK: And, um, going to school, did you have Armenian friends or normal American–
25:52
AK: We would develop a friendship. We would know each other, uh, ultimately, by going to school and knowing them in school as well as seeing them, you know, every three or four months.
26:11
JK: Now, did you guys have any other events within the Armenian community?
26:19
AK: No, just, um, after church dinners. We used to have a picnic, an annual picnic, where everybody got together, uh, whenever there was a wedding or, or a social or baptism, something like that, they would bring the community together in these social functions.
26:43
JK: Do you think most of the families, uh, during that time have left Binghamton or stayed?
26:51
AK: No, they, they, uh, decided to stay here because work was, uh, here. That is the reason why they stayed. Plus the children began to go to school here. And they attached a, a reason for wanting to live here because they knew or had nowhere else to go. We did not have a car to go traveling anywhere. So we were pretty much set–like many of the Armenians were– they just maybe had one family car that they could afford. And it took an awful long time to travel from one city to another. Uh, traveling to Massachusetts used to take as much as five or six hours.
27:48
JK: Um, now going to school did you–was there an Armenian school that you could attend here or–?
27:53
AK: There were– there, there were Armenian schools set up. Uh, Louise, my older sister, um, ended up going to Armenian school. She learned to read and write it as well. But, uh, we did not my other siblings never had the opportunity to go to an Armenian school, uh, when we were, uh, younger, but, um, my, uh, when we have subsequently developed a priest coming here more frequently, we have had schools I will get into that much later. But, uh, when we had a full time priest for a period of time, we would have Armenian classes, um–
28:52
JK: And did that include Bible school or Sunday school or–
28:56
AK: We used to have Sunday schools. I mean, this is back, uh, much later, after I came back to Binghamton, uh, from medical school and my residency, we used to have a Armenian Sunday school, but we used to have church services more frequently.
29:21
JK: And, uh, when you were growing up in high school and, uh, secondary school, did you associate yourself with the other Armenians in the community or–?
29:33
AK: No not really, more became assimilated with everybody, but we knew each other. We knew each other but we happen to be, uh, in classes with other Armenian students. And, uh, but that was after, uh, well, for example, the high school in the first ward, uh, which was Daniel Dickinson. It does not exist [indistinct] there used to at least be one or two Armenians in, uh, our class that we knew, um, but that was because we knew each other from, uh, playing in the playgrounds before we went to school. We used to play in the, um, field on Jarvis street with other Armenians, but we play with a lot of, uh, Slavic children. Uh, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, we, um, had a close association with, with, um, them as we grow up, you know, from the age of five to the age of fifteen, uh, we played with each other, there were always some Armenians that we played with in the community.
31:06
JK: So, um, after, uh, school you went on to college. And, um, what school did you attend, after–
31:17
AK: What’s that?
31:18
JK: What University did you attend after?
31:21
AK: Well, I graduated from Binghamton Central High School. It was Binghamton Central High School at the time. It is now Binghamton High School. I went to, um, Syracuse University and graduated from Syracuse around 1955, (19)56 and I graduated from med–the medical school at Syracuse, which was the State University of New York College of Medicine. And then I went from there to New York City. Af–after spending eight years in Syracuse, I went to New York City to do my internship and a surgical residency in general surgery and my, um, Vascular Surgery at, um, Mount Sinai in New York City. I came to Binghamton in 1966 and went into a practice of surgery with Dr. Bowman and Dr. Peters. And I have been practicing ever since.
32:43
JK: And–
32:44
AK: –Since 1966, my partners have passed away.
32:50
JK: You are the only one left.
32:52
AK: I am the last.
32:54
JK: And what was your reasoning after traveling to Syracuse and New York City, uh, coming back to Binghamton, did you want to come back because your family or–?
33:03
AK: I was coming, I was coming back to my hometown. I practiced, um, for about two years. And I got drafted at the height of the Vietnam War. I ended up spending two years in the Army.
33:22
JK: And–
33:23
AK: –And, and after that, I came back to Binghamton–
33:27
JK: To practice, uh–
33:28
AK: To practice general and vascular surgery.
33:33
JK: And, uh, whilst you are in–when you were in Syracuse and New York City, was there a stronger Armenian community?
33:42
AK: Yes, I ultimately got married in nineteen–in nineteen sixty, and, uh, in fact that met my wife in 1960. We got married in 1960 and finished medical school at the same time. I went to, um, New York City and we used to go to the Armenian Church in Queens. We lived in– my wife and I lived in, um, Brooklyn at the time, and we went to the Armenian Church in Bayside, New York. And then I went into my residency of surgery. We lived in Jersey City and we went whenever I could get away from the hospital and get free we went to the Armenian Church in Union City, uh, New York, I am sorry New Jersey and, uh, lived there until we came to Binghamton.
35:00
JK: Uh, going back to when you were growing up with your family in Binghamton. Um, did you see Armenian, uh, presence in your family life? Or did you see more Americanized?
35:15
AK: No Armenians did not really have a opportunity to socialize, because there was no, uh, common activity that would bring them together like a church service–whenever they have church service. So the Armenians did not socialize that much they did not, um, they did not get together too frequently because there was not a good meeting place. There was an Armenian club on Jarvis Street. Uh, but I was too young to ever go there. My dad used to go there. There used to be an Armenian club on Jarvis Street, which was located near Main Street on Jarvis Street. Then there was another Armenian club on Main Street, which was near–the landmarks are now all gone. Um, there used to be a theater–the Jarvis Theater, which was located just about fifty yards from the, um, Clark Street and on Main Street, the–the Jarvis theater is gone. The furniture store is gone. The A&P across the street is all gone. But there was an army in club there and that was in existence even when I was up to the age of, uh, eighteen. And then that gradually fell apart as people begin to pass away, the old timers just did not keep it up.
37:15
JK: And what– do you recall what you are even though you were young, do you recall what they did at Armenian clubs? What kind of events? What–what did they do at the Armenian clubs? Just hang out or?
37:27
AK: No, no, the Armenian kids did not really– Armenian children did not really get together to play with each other maybe there was only one family that I remember the Avedisians, Avedisians, um, who lived on Jarvis street when we lived on the corner of Main of Clinton Street and, um, Jarvis street. It was probably the only Armenians that we played with, the Avedisians they were–Antony Avedisian, uh, Archie Avedisians and Michael Avedisians. Michael became an officer in the United States Army, then became a lawyer and practiced out in Paducah, Kentucky. Andy Avedisian, his younger brother became a lawyer. I know, I remember he went to NYU law school in New York. And Archie worked for the boys club. My brothers, my brothers are all self-employed. Go ahead.
38:51
JK: And, um, you are saying about the Armenian clubs, clubs that they had during that time. What did they do at the Armenian clubs?
39:00
AK: I never went to them because I was too young to go.
39:04
JK: Yeah did you hear any stories or anything or–? None.
39:07
AK: No. No, my dad did not, he just– all he did there was play cards [laughs]. That is all I can remember.
39:19
JK: And, um, going back to, uh, meeting your wife, did you want to marry an Armenian or did your parents? [cellphone rings]
39:31
AK: Yes. But I was not going to marry her while I was still in college or I was in medical school but in my very last year in medical school is when I met my wife at an Armenian dance that I was going to. I was in between clerkships in medical school. So I was free that weekend, and a group from Syracuse an Armenian group from Syracuse, um, decided they want to go to the Armenian dance in Springfield, Massachusetts. And I was going with a girl from Springfield, Massachusetts at the time. So, I joined them in going to the Armenian dance in, uh, Springfield, Massachusetts. And that is where I am instead of paying attention to the girl that I was going with, I met my wife, Adrian at the dance and decided to marry her. And while I was in Syracuse, I did become associated with the, uh, Armenian club, in– of you– young people in, uh, Syracuse and, uh, became affiliated with the Armenian Church in Syracuse, which ultimately purchased a Protestant Church and converted it to an Armenian Church. And I was very active with the Armenian youth in Syracuse while I was there in Syracuse for eight years. I was four years at the university and four years at the Medical School. So, I spent a great deal of time with a close friends that I developed in the Armenian community who were initially going to the university.
41:50
JK: Was–
41:50
AK: –And maintained that friendship. Even coming back to Binghamton. I have still had a close association with the Armenian peers my age at that time we have grown together as a community.
42:12
JK: And before they bought, bought the Protestant church was there another Armenian Church that you attended? While at–
42:18
AK: No there was no Armenian Church, they were using a, a, um, a, uh, meeting club that belong to a, um, a Protestant organization or there may have been a small compound that was used by the, by the, um, young people in, uh, in Syracuse. But they had a rented a Protestant facility, uh, in Syracuse and used to have their church service whenever they could get a priest come to the– come to the, um, community. I am going to get a drink of water.
43:18
JK: So, did your parents want you to marry an Armenian? Or was it your decision or–?
43:22
AK: No, I just never thought of marrying anybody but an Armenian. Since I had a close relationship with my parents, I just never put the idea or thought in my mind, because I was, number one, in school, in college. I never thought about wanting to get married before I finished college. Number two, uh, I did not think about wanting to get married even while I was in medical school. So the topic never came up or the thought never came up even to mention it to my parents. I met an awful lot of girls. It was just that, the desire to wanting [coughs] the desire to want to get married while I was in college and medical school until I was– reached the age of twenty-six. Then I started looking.
44:28
JK: And, um, what was the–so when you wanted to get married, it was only, you only focused on Armenians.
44:36
AK: I met a lot of Armenian girls, but I was not interested because I was still in medical school. But then when I was in my senior year, I thought this was a perfect opportunity to want to get married. So I started looking, but not really seriously but, and I did not meet Adrian until I was in my last six months of medical school.
45:13
JK: And, um, going to more generalized ideas about Armenian, uh, culture–what do you think makes you most Armenian?
45:24
AK: I think I am, I have always had a, a interest in [indistinct] a interest in the Armenian community, the Armenian Church, even though I had limited exposure to it. Because even in my serious years of education, which was between eighteen and twenty-six that I, that I thought, being more serious about it because of the history of the Armenian Church, uh, and what little I had learned about it without any formal education.
46:20
JK: And what does it mean for you to be an Armenian? What does it mean for you to be an Armenian?
46:28
AK: It means for me to be proud to be an Armenian. The fact that I am, uh, interested in as much as the history of the Armenian, Armenians– the history, the Armenian Church makes me feel that I am proud of my, um, not only my community, but the Armenian folkways its mores are all a–as rich as any other, other racial denomination. As a result of that, uh, desire of being proud of the fact that it is a, a history that if, every time I get an opportunity to read about the Armenian Church, the Armenian history, the Armenian Church and how intricate the Armenian Church has become to the history of Armenia itself. It has suffered many hardships, many massacres over the years that, um, it has survived, but the Armenian Church has still survived, in spite of all these, uh, tortures, genocide, massacres, that the church and the community and the people have still survived.
48:19
JK: And, um.
48:26
AK: He is probably asleep. [laughs]
48:30
JK: Uh, and how would you define yourself, uh, right now? Would you, would you–
48:35
AK: Demi– define myself in the Armenian–
48:41
JK: Uh would you be American-Armenian, Armenian-American or one hundred percent Armenian or–?
48:46
AK: Well, I would like to be a good Armenian-American– as proud as other ethnic groups are proud of their background whether they are, you are Irish, Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, these other religions and these other groups of people are as proud of their, uh, ethnic background as the Jewish people are, for example. They are proud of their historical background. I am very proud and put mine equal to them and equally strong as they are toward their religion and their faith that I am closely, I have a close feeling, deep feeling for my own ethnic background.
49:51
JK: And have you ever visited or went back to the villages or Armenia?
49:56
AK: I have been to Armenia twice and I have enjoyed the–both occasions, the first time I was able to go there with my parents. The last time I have been to Armenia, um, that I feel a, a sense of wellbeing in the Armenian nation itself, the very earth that my parents, and the reason I am so, um, so proud of it. I am, I am proud of the fact that, number one, that in spite of the, um, the, uh, the fact that the Armenia, Armenia up until 1991, was occupied by the Soviet Union. It was Soviet socialist Republic. But now Armenia is an independent nation. One can divide– devise it is, uh, exact location in the fact that it is between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. It was occupied by the northeast corner of Turkey, the southern border of the Republic of Georgia. Uh, it is, uh, north of Iran. It is even though it is a very small country, it was a– the smallest of all the Soviet Socialist Republics. But I was proud being there with its people, three million people. The capital is Yerevan, the capital city was as modern as populated. It is a city of one million people. Just traveling to various historical places in Armenia was very proud and made me proud of just being there. I would like to go again, if my health permits. And, uh, everybody that I went with over there, would like to go back again? I mean, that is how strongly they feel, they felt about the being proud of the fact that they were Armenian. And even those, those who married into the Armenian, uh, faith as a result of, um, marriage are also enthusiastic about wanting to go back again. I will think about it [laughs].
53:01
JK: Of course. Um, and do you think you can remain Ar– Armenian without the language or the church or the homeland?
53:09
AK: Many people, many Armenians who, uh, grew up Armenian may not have a file, a strong ability to speak the language, but they still want to remain or be Armenians. It helps a bit to be able to speak the language even more to be able to read it. I do not read it as well. I try to speak it the best I can.
53:46
JK: And what about the church?
53:48
AK: The church I feel very strongly about supporting the church, being a part of the church, going to the church as often as they have a, uh, religious service, if they had a church service, every Sunday, I would go to church every Sunday. At the present time, we have a visiting priest who comes to Binghamton, uh, twice a month, but I go to church or twice a month, because there is a service. And it gives a perfect opportunity to be together with people. And the closeness and bond is still there.
54:36
JK: And what about the homeland?
54:39
AK: I am st– I strongly support the home– homeland. As I said, I have only had the opportunity to go there twice. And I have enjoyed it. And I would love to go to back again.
54:53
JK: And did you ever visit the villages?
54:56
AK: Yes.
54:55
JK: Of your parents where they grew up?
54:57
AK: Oh no, no, those were in Turkey
55:00
JK: Okay.
55:01
AK: No, I, just, I would not want to go to Turkey. But I would want to go back to Armenia, because I feel that closeness, that adherence to the church, the people, their government. Very interesting that they have a democratic government in Armenia, and they are still in the midst of a upheaval around them. By that I made the Kurdish population in Turkey, want to become independent of Turkey. That is going to be an interesting problem.
55:46
JK: All right. I think that–
55:48
AK: Hope Arme–Armenia just does not get involved in that. But it is fortunate that the Armenian nation as it borders Turkey is protected by Russia–by the Russian government, the Russian, um, border guards the Armenian border guards are Russian that essentially tells Turkey that they are protecting them.
56:23
JK: And one last thing, what do you–what are your thoughts on, uh, America not supporting the Armenian genocide or not calling it Armenian–
56:33
AK: You mean our– America supporting Armenia?
56:35
JK: Or, uh, not recognizing that it is a genocide.
56:40
AK: That is a political thing. Political– I mean, we were promised that by presidents that they were going to do it, Bush, President Bush promised he was going to do it when he became president Obama promised he was going to recognize the Armenian Genocide but the Turkish Government has a very strong presence in Washington. But one of these days, they will have reco– they will recognize it, because many other countries have. In fact, in France, it is against the law to deny that the Armenian Genocide occurred.
57:21
JK: Is there anything else that you would like to add on this interview?
57:26
AK: No, I– get another opportunity where I can think more fully. I would love to have another conversation.
57:36
JK: Of course. Well, thank you so much.
(End of Interview)
Interview with: Aristaks Kachadourian
Interviewed by: Jacqueline Kachadourian
Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty
Date of interview: 29 September 2017
Interview Setting: Binghamton
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Start of Interview)
0:08
JK: This is Jacqueline Kachadourian with Binghamton University’s Special Collections library, Armenian Oral History Project. Today is September 29, 2017. Can you please state your name for the record?
0:21
AK: Aristaks Kachadourian.
0:24
JK: And where were you born?
0:27
AK: Johnson City, New York.
0:30
JK: And–
0:31
AK: –December 12, 1932.
0:34
JK: And who were your parents?
0:39
AK: Um, Alice and Parsec Kachadourian.
0:45
JK: And where were they born?
0:50
AK: In Harput, Turkey. My father was born in the s–village of Aşvan my mother was born in the village of ̶
1:06
JK: And, um, why did they imi– did– they immigrated to the United States, correct?
1:14
AK: Not directly. My father came by way of Ellis Island and my mother came by way of Canada.
1:25
JK: And–
1:29
AK: –Um and she came to the United States, um, from Canada, with her brother.
1:42
JK: And did they meet in the villages in Harper or they met?
1:49
AK: No, no. They met in Massachusetts. [indistinct] Right. Now my mother and father met in Massachusetts, in Providence, Rhode Island.
2:06
JK: Okay. And so what was the reasoning for emigrating to–what was their reasoning to come to the United States?
2:14
AK: I think primarily to, um, avoid the massacres that were occurring in, um, central Turkey.
2:31
JK: Now, were they directly associated with the massacres? Did it happen during their time–
2:36
AK: –No, but they had heard about–my father essentially, um, avoided being rounded up by the Turks in the village and he was able to escape, um, from the village by, uh, jumping into the water and swimming for his freedom. My mother, um, came by way of, um, Turkey to Lebanon where she met her uncle and she was able to save up enough money and afford passage to Marseilles, France and from Marseilles she went to Canada.
3:37
JK: And do you remember what time frame or year?
3:39
AK: Time frame was somewhere around 1927, 1927.
3:47
JK: Okay and, um, when your father was escaping the Turkish shoulder– soldiers, um, did they leave behind any family, uh, to escape, or–? Do you know of any stories?
4:06
AK: I really do not know the other circumstances by which he came over but the thing which attracted him to Binghamton, New York. He was staying in Worcester, Massachusetts with relatives. And from there he, um, came to visit his cousin in Binghamton and decided to stay after he was able to obtain a job working at the Endicot, Endicott Johnson shoe Corporation. That was what made him emigrate to the Binghamton area.
4:53
JK: And, um, while they, while your parents lived in the villages in Turkey, did they speak, what languages did they speak?
5:00
AK: They spoke Turkish and Armenian.
5:02
JK: Okay. And did that pass along to you and your siblings?
5:06
AK: Not the Turkish, although my Armenian is mixed with a lot of Turkish words. Um, I did not know the difference between the two. Neither did my brothers and sisters. Some words the– my parents would use, uh, that were Turkish, and I thought they were Armenian, but how was I to differentiate between the two?
5:35
JK: Um, do you recall any stories that your parents told about living in the villages?
5:40
AK: Oh, yeah, my mother, uh, the last she saw of her mother was, uh, when she was a child, she remembers being, uh, placed in a Protestant orphanage home and the last she saw of her mother was running down the street I assumed from the Turk– Turkish, uh, soldiers or police. And that was the last time she saw her mother. Her mother never came back to the orphanage to pick her up. She was about eleven, twelve years old.
6:21
JK: So, she was all by herself?
6:23
AK: She was by herself.
6:25
JK: Did she have any brothers or sisters?
6:29
AK: No. The only brother she had was the one that was being carried, uh, by her mother while she was running from the Turkish authorities. Her brother somehow came to the United States. She had one brother that I know that was living in, um, in Lowell, Massachusetts, and he, she had a father that had emigrated to the United States in nineteen ten. And he died of tuberculosis in the United States. Uh, in Lowell, Massachusetts. I know that he is buried there with my uncle, my mother's brother who came to Canada. I do not know if he was in contact with his father, who passed away with tuberculosis. But that is the only thing that I can remember. My uncle had a job. I think it was in the shoe factories in Lowell, Massachusetts. And he learned of my mother coming from Marcy, France to, um, Canada and he went to Canada and brought her. I do not know whether it was in Toronto that he went and got her or Montreal, I am not sure. I think it was Toronto. That, and this was about 1926, 1927.
8:21
JK: And so her brother came to America first, before she did?
8:24
AK: Yes, her father came first. Then her brother came here. The father had come here first to earn enough money to bring his family from Turkey to the United States. But she got the money that he sent to her to, um, come to the United States, but instead she used the money to buy a farm [laughs] and that is about all I know about it.
8:58
JK: And the farm was located in, uh, Turkey or America?
9:01
AK: No, that was, what was that?
9:06
JK: Was the farm located where? In Turkey or–?
9:10
AK: No, she did not bother to buy the farm. This was in the village of ̶
9:14
JK: Okay.
9:15
AK: In Turkey.
9:15
JK: Okay.
9:16
AK: That she was supposed to use the money.
9:19
JK: And so her father left before the genocide occurred
9:23
AK: Oh yes, he came about–he came about 1910. There was another genocide back in 1909 that, in fact those three genocides one in 1896, one 1909, in fact, the one in 1996, I mean 1896 was when my wife Adrian, her father came over as a child at three at the age of three around 1896. That was the first genocide. The second genocide was in 8– 1909. And that was when, uh, my mother's father emigrated to the United States to earn money to pay for bringing his family over. But her mother never bought the, bought the–uh, used the money to come to the United States, she bought a farm instead.
10:32
JK: And the two other gen–the two other genocides that–genocides that occurred beforehand, um, your fa ̶ your mother survived both of them?
10:41
AK: No, my mother, my mother survived the 1896 one. Uh, she was old, she was not born in when the genocide of 1909. But that was when her father came to the United States. In (19)– I am sorry 1909, he came to the United States. She did not come until much later around 1915 or 1916.
11:13
JK: And you remember what year she, do you remember what year she was born in?
11:18
AK: She was born in 19 ̶ give me a second– to the United States around 1915, 1916. She was born in 1909, 1904.
11:46
JK: Okay.
11:48
AK: Gee I should have to go look at the tombstone.
11:53
JK: And, um, for the past two genocides 9– 1896 and 1909, that was with Armenia and Turkey– and Turkey?
12:02
AK: Yes, that was between the Armenians and the Turks.
12:07
JK: Okay. And, um, it was, I am assuming it was with the villages in Turkey?
12:12
AK: –Yeah.
12:13
JK: –That they started in.
12:14
AK: Yeah. Yeah. It was in the–the state or province of ̶ and no, in, um, in Harput, Harput. Harput was the name of the province.
12:37
JK: Okay. And, um, was there mass killings in– during those massacres or–?
12:43
AK: There probably was, but that was much later.
12:48
JK: Okay. And, and for your father, did you experience any of these, uh, other two genoc– or other two massacres?
12:55
AK: He was a young boy at the time he was about twelve, thirteen years old. He was born around 1900.
13:06
JK: Okay.
13:06
AK: So he would have been about (19)14, (19)15 fifteen when that took place.
13:11
JK: And–
13:12
AK: –Brought him to Binghamton, of course, so his– he was able to get a job here at the Endicott Johnson shoe factory. And that was what– he was living with my cousin.
13:26
JK: And, uh, do you recall any stories about him living in Harput? Do you recall any sto– do you remember him telling you stories–
13:34
AK: –Any stories at Harput? Not really. I have forgotten a lot of them I would have to think about it. Some of the time when I can rehash some of these stories.
13:49
JK: Of course. Um, do you remember the escape, how he escaped?
13:58
AK: Here, the only– he, um, ran from the village with his older brother, but he remembers the story that his brother was captured. And he survived the, the, um, arrests that were going on in the village, and he remembers that his brother escaped by jumping in the river and he was wounded with a shot in the side of his head. But he was able to swim in the river and get away, escape. His, uh, brother escaped to France and remained there and yeah he never came to the United States. But he has a–his name was Minas Kachadourian and his family settled in Marcy, France and ultimately in Leone, Leone, Leone, um, France.
15:17
JK: And they leave any other family members back in, uh, the village of Harput or–?
15:23
AK: The only one I know about was my father's brother in– that, uh, escaped with him to France. My bir–my father ultimately wanted to come to the United States, his brother stayed in France.
15:45
JK: Now growing up, did your parents talk about what occurred in Turkey?
15:51
AK: They did not talk very much about the–the massacres only that they would mention them but they would not relay any definite stories because they were such sad stories that they tried to suppress the thoughts of these episodes.
16:18
JK: Okay, going back to the life in Binghamton, um, do you have any siblings growing up?
16:27
AK: Yes, I have, uh, four siblings. My sister Louise, um, Henry, Arslan, Garabed.
16:46
JK: And, um, growing up did, uh, your parents speak Armenian to you in the household?
16:54
AK: They spoke Armenian and bro– broken English. What–what they learned by their communication with people in the community, but mostly they spoke Armenian to us.
17:10
JK: And, uh, when–when they came to the United States, your parents, did–they did not know English, I assume, right?
17:16
AK: No, they did not have any English at all. They learned gradually by their contact with the American population.
17:26
JK: And from your stance, they want to keep the Armenian culture and your family strong?
17:34
AK: Oh, yes. We have an Armenian Church, which was acquired in 1927. But let us see my parents were married in 1927. They met in maybe 1925, 1926. And, uh, my father, when visiting– the way they had met was my father, when, uh, visiting to Massachusetts, I guess he was looking to marry an Armenian woman there. But he met my mother instead. And I think this way the story was but the Armenian woman did not want to marry, marry my father. He wanted, so that he had purchased a ring to get engaged with and, and he let us see. And she did not want him so he went looking for another woman and met my mother and she essentially, uh, wanted to get married and ended up meeting my father and he brought her back to Binghamton and got married in Binghamton at the Trinity Memorial Church in Binghamton which is located on the corner of Main and Oak Street.
19:22
JK: And the reasoning that they stayed in Binghamton is because your father had a job–
19:28
AK: Had a job here, and they were living on Colfax Avenue with my, uh, cousin. And they were living on the third floor of my cousin's home.
19:45
JK: And do you recall in Lowell, Massachusetts, did they have a big Armenian community from the–
19:51
AK: In Massachusetts. Oh, yes, there is a large Armenian community. The first Armenian Church in the United States is located in Worcester, Massachusetts. And then subsequently parishes were formed or built, uh, in Providence Boston, Worcester. The largest community at the time, I think was in Worcester, Massachusetts. But then they began to spread all over the northeastern United States.
20:29
JK: And in Binghamton, New York, where you grew up in, um, was there a large Armenian community? No it was small but it, it grew. The community gradually increased with the advent of Armenians being able to work in the shoe corporations in Binghamton. There were many shoe, uh, factories, uh, Endicott Johnson being the largest on the west side of Binghamton. Uh, Dunn McCarthy's, uh, on the south side was Gotham shoe factories so that Armenians on the south side began to live on the south side because they worked at the shoe factory on the west side of Binghamton, and the second and third wards and fourth wards and Binghamton. Uh, most of the Armenians work that the Dunn McCarthy shoe factory.
21:35
JK: Okay. And, um, from this area, did you have a– so were the Armenians living close by from one another?
21:44
AK: Oh yes, they all lived, all the Armenians lives within walking distance from each other. The– there was a large group of Armenians who lived in the first ward, second ward and third ward. And most of them went to the Protestant churches here because there was no Armenian Church in, at that time and the Armenian Church was not, uh, purchased–it was purchased from the Ross Memorial Church, Ross Memorial, um, Episcopal Church on the south side. My Armenians on the south side went to that church. On the west side, some of them went to the congregation church on the corner of, um, Main and Front Street. But, and also a large number on the, uh, west side went to the Main Street Baptist Church on the corner of Main and Chestnut Street. This is where the churches are still located.
23:00
JK: And, um, so you are–and when you were growing up as a child, you went to the Armenian Church?
23:08
AK: Well–
23:09
JK: –When it was–
23:09
AK: –Whenever they had service, whenever they could get a priest to visit the Armenian Church, um, which was about four or five times a year was when the, uh, parish council were able to get a priest to come up and perform service and baptize some of the children.
23:33
JK: So you guys did not have priests for regular service?
23:37
AK: We did not have a regular service, but we had a priest sent to us by the diocese. In fact, we, my brother and I, Arslan and I, um, were not baptized until we were about eleven, twelve years old
23:57
JK: Oh okay. And, um, so growing up, did you attend church every time there was a service?
24:05
AK: When, whatever there was a service here, yes.
24:08
JK: And–
24:09
AK: My cous– I remember my cousin, uh, picking us up and driving us to the church, because we did not have a car at the time.
24:21
JK: And, um, for the services, they were once every few months, or–?
24:28
AK: I would say about once every three, three–four months was when we had sort of church service. Transportation was difficult at that time. We used to see the priests coming, I believe, from New York City. And at that time, it took about six to seven hours, by car or by, uh, train, however they came.
24:58
JK: And once the church was built, um, do you think the Armenian community grew stronger in Binghamton?
25:06
AK: Yes, the community became closer together because that was the one, one and only time every two to three or four months, that they would get together and have a dinner after a church service so that they could prolong the time of contact together. But they became stronger as the children also grew in the area and attended the schools. The number of children, uh, multiplied tremendously.
25:44
JK: And, um, going to school, did you have Armenian friends or normal American–
25:52
AK: We would develop a friendship. We would know each other, uh, ultimately, by going to school and knowing them in school as well as seeing them, you know, every three or four months.
26:11
JK: Now, did you guys have any other events within the Armenian community?
26:19
AK: No, just, um, after church dinners. We used to have a picnic, an annual picnic, where everybody got together, uh, whenever there was a wedding or, or a social or baptism, something like that, they would bring the community together in these social functions.
26:43
JK: Do you think most of the families, uh, during that time have left Binghamton or stayed?
26:51
AK: No, they, they, uh, decided to stay here because work was, uh, here. That is the reason why they stayed. Plus the children began to go to school here. And they attached a, a reason for wanting to live here because they knew or had nowhere else to go. We did not have a car to go traveling anywhere. So we were pretty much set–like many of the Armenians were– they just maybe had one family car that they could afford. And it took an awful long time to travel from one city to another. Uh, traveling to Massachusetts used to take as much as five or six hours.
27:48
JK: Um, now going to school did you–was there an Armenian school that you could attend here or–?
27:53
AK: There were– there, there were Armenian schools set up. Uh, Louise, my older sister, um, ended up going to Armenian school. She learned to read and write it as well. But, uh, we did not my other siblings never had the opportunity to go to an Armenian school, uh, when we were, uh, younger, but, um, my, uh, when we have subsequently developed a priest coming here more frequently, we have had schools I will get into that much later. But, uh, when we had a full time priest for a period of time, we would have Armenian classes, um–
28:52
JK: And did that include Bible school or Sunday school or–
28:56
AK: We used to have Sunday schools. I mean, this is back, uh, much later, after I came back to Binghamton, uh, from medical school and my residency, we used to have a Armenian Sunday school, but we used to have church services more frequently.
29:21
JK: And, uh, when you were growing up in high school and, uh, secondary school, did you associate yourself with the other Armenians in the community or–?
29:33
AK: No not really, more became assimilated with everybody, but we knew each other. We knew each other but we happen to be, uh, in classes with other Armenian students. And, uh, but that was after, uh, well, for example, the high school in the first ward, uh, which was Daniel Dickinson. It does not exist [indistinct] there used to at least be one or two Armenians in, uh, our class that we knew, um, but that was because we knew each other from, uh, playing in the playgrounds before we went to school. We used to play in the, um, field on Jarvis street with other Armenians, but we play with a lot of, uh, Slavic children. Uh, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, we, um, had a close association with, with, um, them as we grow up, you know, from the age of five to the age of fifteen, uh, we played with each other, there were always some Armenians that we played with in the community.
31:06
JK: So, um, after, uh, school you went on to college. And, um, what school did you attend, after–
31:17
AK: What’s that?
31:18
JK: What University did you attend after?
31:21
AK: Well, I graduated from Binghamton Central High School. It was Binghamton Central High School at the time. It is now Binghamton High School. I went to, um, Syracuse University and graduated from Syracuse around 1955, (19)56 and I graduated from med–the medical school at Syracuse, which was the State University of New York College of Medicine. And then I went from there to New York City. Af–after spending eight years in Syracuse, I went to New York City to do my internship and a surgical residency in general surgery and my, um, Vascular Surgery at, um, Mount Sinai in New York City. I came to Binghamton in 1966 and went into a practice of surgery with Dr. Bowman and Dr. Peters. And I have been practicing ever since.
32:43
JK: And–
32:44
AK: –Since 1966, my partners have passed away.
32:50
JK: You are the only one left.
32:52
AK: I am the last.
32:54
JK: And what was your reasoning after traveling to Syracuse and New York City, uh, coming back to Binghamton, did you want to come back because your family or–?
33:03
AK: I was coming, I was coming back to my hometown. I practiced, um, for about two years. And I got drafted at the height of the Vietnam War. I ended up spending two years in the Army.
33:22
JK: And–
33:23
AK: –And, and after that, I came back to Binghamton–
33:27
JK: To practice, uh–
33:28
AK: To practice general and vascular surgery.
33:33
JK: And, uh, whilst you are in–when you were in Syracuse and New York City, was there a stronger Armenian community?
33:42
AK: Yes, I ultimately got married in nineteen–in nineteen sixty, and, uh, in fact that met my wife in 1960. We got married in 1960 and finished medical school at the same time. I went to, um, New York City and we used to go to the Armenian Church in Queens. We lived in– my wife and I lived in, um, Brooklyn at the time, and we went to the Armenian Church in Bayside, New York. And then I went into my residency of surgery. We lived in Jersey City and we went whenever I could get away from the hospital and get free we went to the Armenian Church in Union City, uh, New York, I am sorry New Jersey and, uh, lived there until we came to Binghamton.
35:00
JK: Uh, going back to when you were growing up with your family in Binghamton. Um, did you see Armenian, uh, presence in your family life? Or did you see more Americanized?
35:15
AK: No Armenians did not really have a opportunity to socialize, because there was no, uh, common activity that would bring them together like a church service–whenever they have church service. So the Armenians did not socialize that much they did not, um, they did not get together too frequently because there was not a good meeting place. There was an Armenian club on Jarvis Street. Uh, but I was too young to ever go there. My dad used to go there. There used to be an Armenian club on Jarvis Street, which was located near Main Street on Jarvis Street. Then there was another Armenian club on Main Street, which was near–the landmarks are now all gone. Um, there used to be a theater–the Jarvis Theater, which was located just about fifty yards from the, um, Clark Street and on Main Street, the–the Jarvis theater is gone. The furniture store is gone. The A&P across the street is all gone. But there was an army in club there and that was in existence even when I was up to the age of, uh, eighteen. And then that gradually fell apart as people begin to pass away, the old timers just did not keep it up.
37:15
JK: And what– do you recall what you are even though you were young, do you recall what they did at Armenian clubs? What kind of events? What–what did they do at the Armenian clubs? Just hang out or?
37:27
AK: No, no, the Armenian kids did not really– Armenian children did not really get together to play with each other maybe there was only one family that I remember the Avedisians, Avedisians, um, who lived on Jarvis street when we lived on the corner of Main of Clinton Street and, um, Jarvis street. It was probably the only Armenians that we played with, the Avedisians they were–Antony Avedisian, uh, Archie Avedisians and Michael Avedisians. Michael became an officer in the United States Army, then became a lawyer and practiced out in Paducah, Kentucky. Andy Avedisian, his younger brother became a lawyer. I know, I remember he went to NYU law school in New York. And Archie worked for the boys club. My brothers, my brothers are all self-employed. Go ahead.
38:51
JK: And, um, you are saying about the Armenian clubs, clubs that they had during that time. What did they do at the Armenian clubs?
39:00
AK: I never went to them because I was too young to go.
39:04
JK: Yeah did you hear any stories or anything or–? None.
39:07
AK: No. No, my dad did not, he just– all he did there was play cards [laughs]. That is all I can remember.
39:19
JK: And, um, going back to, uh, meeting your wife, did you want to marry an Armenian or did your parents? [cellphone rings]
39:31
AK: Yes. But I was not going to marry her while I was still in college or I was in medical school but in my very last year in medical school is when I met my wife at an Armenian dance that I was going to. I was in between clerkships in medical school. So I was free that weekend, and a group from Syracuse an Armenian group from Syracuse, um, decided they want to go to the Armenian dance in Springfield, Massachusetts. And I was going with a girl from Springfield, Massachusetts at the time. So, I joined them in going to the Armenian dance in, uh, Springfield, Massachusetts. And that is where I am instead of paying attention to the girl that I was going with, I met my wife, Adrian at the dance and decided to marry her. And while I was in Syracuse, I did become associated with the, uh, Armenian club, in– of you– young people in, uh, Syracuse and, uh, became affiliated with the Armenian Church in Syracuse, which ultimately purchased a Protestant Church and converted it to an Armenian Church. And I was very active with the Armenian youth in Syracuse while I was there in Syracuse for eight years. I was four years at the university and four years at the Medical School. So, I spent a great deal of time with a close friends that I developed in the Armenian community who were initially going to the university.
41:50
JK: Was–
41:50
AK: –And maintained that friendship. Even coming back to Binghamton. I have still had a close association with the Armenian peers my age at that time we have grown together as a community.
42:12
JK: And before they bought, bought the Protestant church was there another Armenian Church that you attended? While at–
42:18
AK: No there was no Armenian Church, they were using a, a, um, a, uh, meeting club that belong to a, um, a Protestant organization or there may have been a small compound that was used by the, by the, um, young people in, uh, in Syracuse. But they had a rented a Protestant facility, uh, in Syracuse and used to have their church service whenever they could get a priest come to the– come to the, um, community. I am going to get a drink of water.
43:18
JK: So, did your parents want you to marry an Armenian? Or was it your decision or–?
43:22
AK: No, I just never thought of marrying anybody but an Armenian. Since I had a close relationship with my parents, I just never put the idea or thought in my mind, because I was, number one, in school, in college. I never thought about wanting to get married before I finished college. Number two, uh, I did not think about wanting to get married even while I was in medical school. So the topic never came up or the thought never came up even to mention it to my parents. I met an awful lot of girls. It was just that, the desire to wanting [coughs] the desire to want to get married while I was in college and medical school until I was– reached the age of twenty-six. Then I started looking.
44:28
JK: And, um, what was the–so when you wanted to get married, it was only, you only focused on Armenians.
44:36
AK: I met a lot of Armenian girls, but I was not interested because I was still in medical school. But then when I was in my senior year, I thought this was a perfect opportunity to want to get married. So I started looking, but not really seriously but, and I did not meet Adrian until I was in my last six months of medical school.
45:13
JK: And, um, going to more generalized ideas about Armenian, uh, culture–what do you think makes you most Armenian?
45:24
AK: I think I am, I have always had a, a interest in [indistinct] a interest in the Armenian community, the Armenian Church, even though I had limited exposure to it. Because even in my serious years of education, which was between eighteen and twenty-six that I, that I thought, being more serious about it because of the history of the Armenian Church, uh, and what little I had learned about it without any formal education.
46:20
JK: And what does it mean for you to be an Armenian? What does it mean for you to be an Armenian?
46:28
AK: It means for me to be proud to be an Armenian. The fact that I am, uh, interested in as much as the history of the Armenian, Armenians– the history, the Armenian Church makes me feel that I am proud of my, um, not only my community, but the Armenian folkways its mores are all a–as rich as any other, other racial denomination. As a result of that, uh, desire of being proud of the fact that it is a, a history that if, every time I get an opportunity to read about the Armenian Church, the Armenian history, the Armenian Church and how intricate the Armenian Church has become to the history of Armenia itself. It has suffered many hardships, many massacres over the years that, um, it has survived, but the Armenian Church has still survived, in spite of all these, uh, tortures, genocide, massacres, that the church and the community and the people have still survived.
48:19
JK: And, um.
48:26
AK: He is probably asleep. [laughs]
48:30
JK: Uh, and how would you define yourself, uh, right now? Would you, would you–
48:35
AK: Demi– define myself in the Armenian–
48:41
JK: Uh would you be American-Armenian, Armenian-American or one hundred percent Armenian or–?
48:46
AK: Well, I would like to be a good Armenian-American– as proud as other ethnic groups are proud of their background whether they are, you are Irish, Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, these other religions and these other groups of people are as proud of their, uh, ethnic background as the Jewish people are, for example. They are proud of their historical background. I am very proud and put mine equal to them and equally strong as they are toward their religion and their faith that I am closely, I have a close feeling, deep feeling for my own ethnic background.
49:51
JK: And have you ever visited or went back to the villages or Armenia?
49:56
AK: I have been to Armenia twice and I have enjoyed the–both occasions, the first time I was able to go there with my parents. The last time I have been to Armenia, um, that I feel a, a sense of wellbeing in the Armenian nation itself, the very earth that my parents, and the reason I am so, um, so proud of it. I am, I am proud of the fact that, number one, that in spite of the, um, the, uh, the fact that the Armenia, Armenia up until 1991, was occupied by the Soviet Union. It was Soviet socialist Republic. But now Armenia is an independent nation. One can divide– devise it is, uh, exact location in the fact that it is between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. It was occupied by the northeast corner of Turkey, the southern border of the Republic of Georgia. Uh, it is, uh, north of Iran. It is even though it is a very small country, it was a– the smallest of all the Soviet Socialist Republics. But I was proud being there with its people, three million people. The capital is Yerevan, the capital city was as modern as populated. It is a city of one million people. Just traveling to various historical places in Armenia was very proud and made me proud of just being there. I would like to go again, if my health permits. And, uh, everybody that I went with over there, would like to go back again? I mean, that is how strongly they feel, they felt about the being proud of the fact that they were Armenian. And even those, those who married into the Armenian, uh, faith as a result of, um, marriage are also enthusiastic about wanting to go back again. I will think about it [laughs].
53:01
JK: Of course. Um, and do you think you can remain Ar– Armenian without the language or the church or the homeland?
53:09
AK: Many people, many Armenians who, uh, grew up Armenian may not have a file, a strong ability to speak the language, but they still want to remain or be Armenians. It helps a bit to be able to speak the language even more to be able to read it. I do not read it as well. I try to speak it the best I can.
53:46
JK: And what about the church?
53:48
AK: The church I feel very strongly about supporting the church, being a part of the church, going to the church as often as they have a, uh, religious service, if they had a church service, every Sunday, I would go to church every Sunday. At the present time, we have a visiting priest who comes to Binghamton, uh, twice a month, but I go to church or twice a month, because there is a service. And it gives a perfect opportunity to be together with people. And the closeness and bond is still there.
54:36
JK: And what about the homeland?
54:39
AK: I am st– I strongly support the home– homeland. As I said, I have only had the opportunity to go there twice. And I have enjoyed it. And I would love to go to back again.
54:53
JK: And did you ever visit the villages?
54:56
AK: Yes.
54:55
JK: Of your parents where they grew up?
54:57
AK: Oh no, no, those were in Turkey
55:00
JK: Okay.
55:01
AK: No, I, just, I would not want to go to Turkey. But I would want to go back to Armenia, because I feel that closeness, that adherence to the church, the people, their government. Very interesting that they have a democratic government in Armenia, and they are still in the midst of a upheaval around them. By that I made the Kurdish population in Turkey, want to become independent of Turkey. That is going to be an interesting problem.
55:46
JK: All right. I think that–
55:48
AK: Hope Arme–Armenia just does not get involved in that. But it is fortunate that the Armenian nation as it borders Turkey is protected by Russia–by the Russian government, the Russian, um, border guards the Armenian border guards are Russian that essentially tells Turkey that they are protecting them.
56:23
JK: And one last thing, what do you–what are your thoughts on, uh, America not supporting the Armenian genocide or not calling it Armenian–
56:33
AK: You mean our– America supporting Armenia?
56:35
JK: Or, uh, not recognizing that it is a genocide.
56:40
AK: That is a political thing. Political– I mean, we were promised that by presidents that they were going to do it, Bush, President Bush promised he was going to do it when he became president Obama promised he was going to recognize the Armenian Genocide but the Turkish Government has a very strong presence in Washington. But one of these days, they will have reco– they will recognize it, because many other countries have. In fact, in France, it is against the law to deny that the Armenian Genocide occurred.
57:21
JK: Is there anything else that you would like to add on this interview?
57:26
AK: No, I– get another opportunity where I can think more fully. I would love to have another conversation.
57:36
JK: Of course. Well, thank you so much.
(End of Interview)
Date of Interview
9/29/2017
Interviewer
Jacqueline Kachadourian
Interviewee
Aristaks Kachadourian
Biographical Text
Dr. Aristaks Kachadourian (1933-2019) was a general surgeon. Born in Binghamton, N.Y., to Armenian Genocide survivors, Dr. Kachadourian received his Bachelor's of Science degree in Chemistry from Syracuse University and his medical degree from the State University of New York College of Medicine in Syracuse, NY. He is survived by his wife and five daughters.
Language
English
Digital Publisher
Binghamton University
Digital Format
Audio
Interview Format
Audio
Rights Statement
This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information.
Files
Citation
“Interview with Aristaks Kachadourian,” Digital Collections, accessed May 16, 2025, https://omeka.binghamton.edu/omeka/items/show/1312.
