Interview with Varoujan Kabakian

Armenian Oral History Project
Interview with: Varoujan Kabakian
Interviewed by: Jackie Kachadourian
Transcriber: Cordelia Jannetty
Date of interview: 26 November 2017
Interview Setting: Phone Interview
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(Start of Interview)

0:01
JK: This is Jackie Kachadourian with Binghamton University Special Collection Library Armenian Oral History Project. Today is November 26, 2017. Can you please state your name for the record?

0:15
VK: Yeah, my name is Varoujan Kabakian.

0:18
JK: And where were you born?

0:20
VK: I am born in Beirut, Lebanon.

0:24
JK: And who are your ̶ Who are your parents and where were they born?

0:29
VK: Yeah, my father was born in. Um, Antep, the old Armenia and now it is Turkish area. My mother was born in Beirut, Lebanon.

0:45
JK: And, um ̶ Why did they ̶ Why did not ̶ How did you relocate from Canada or from Lebanon to Canada or from Antep, as well?

1:00
VK: Yeah, well, you know, from my father was born in just before the Armenian genocide. And so with the parents, they run down south on the map to Aleppo, Syria, because of the First World War. And after a while they move to Beirut, which is a bit southern and on the Mediterranean and where he met my mother, and they got married, and I have three brothers ̶ no, two brothers and two sisters. And what happened is I am born in Beirut and when I was eighteen, the Civil War breakup in Lebanon, the famous Civil War in Lebanon. So as we were Armenians and the Civil War was among the Arabs and Palestinians, you know, religion all mixed up. We were not involved in the Civil War. So what happened is we decided to move on. And then at that time, the Canadian Embassy was making it easy for us to immigrate to Canada. So we applied and we got accepted and we came to Canada. That was, that was what happened like we keep on moving and moving. But now Canada is, you know, more Christian countries. So as we are Christians, we find finally a country that is close to our customs on the origin.

2:59
JK: Hmm, do you recall the stories of your father who lived in Antep? What it was like in the village?

3:08
VK: Yeah, yeah, was ̶ What I heard like they used to talk a lot at that time, you know, because the memories were fresh when I was young. They kept on telling us the stories. It was a nice, very nice village, you know, like, more with the ̶ Um, surrounded with vineyards. And they were really the vineyards was the main agricultural aspect of the village, you know, like hills.

3:43
JK: Yeah. Yeah.

3:48
VK: And what can I say? Very nice place, very nice. The weather was very nice. I mean hot.

3:56
JK: Was it mostly Armenians?

4:00
VK: Dry, I guess. And they were in the vineyard business. And then with the war they moved on to, as I said to down south to Syria, which, which, which they welcome them and you know, the life continues.

4:16
JK: So they had to leave Antep.

4:20
VK: Yeah.

4:20
JK: Were they forced?

4:23
VK: Because after ̶ Like a civil war and the genocide as it turned to genocide, you know, it was a mixed with the First World War and again, was not far from so they had to run for their lives. Otherwise, I would not be here. That is what happens. You know, you have to sometimes you have to ̶ you know like get a ̶ you have to ̶

4:53
JK: What did, what did your father do and how old was he when he left? Do you remember? Was ̶ you?

5:03
VK: Oh yeah, he was like a baby when he left Antep, he was like two years old, two, three years old, newly born or I guess, something like that we never know the real age because you know, of the events there. You know, they did not kept record of the ̶ I do not know, I guess the real date but it was very it was very small.

5:30
JK: Did he have any? Did he have any siblings?

5:33
VK: The family they moved into Aleppo and the father, they survived that to do their work and to find other ways. Yeah.

5:45
JK: Yeah. Did he have any siblings growing up or was it just him?
5:54
VK: I did not get it. Sorry.

5:55
JK: Did he have any siblings growing up brothers or sisters?

6:01
VK: Yeah, for sure. Umm, he told me like you had the brother, an older brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was what the ̶ his brother helped him I guess survive and the ̶ I do not remember, I guess yeah one brother. Yeah.

6:27
JK: Okay. Both of your parents were Armenian correct, 100 percent?

6:33
VK: Yeah. 100 percent yeah.

6:37
JK: And growing up in Lebanon, did they keep the Armenian tradition or did you go to Armenian Church or school?

6:46
VK: Yeah, what happened is as a refugee like the number at that time was a huge you know, because it was a mass movement of people from Armenia to Syria, Lebanon. And Lebanon to ̶ So what happened is because of the number we were like we, we were elected. Kept all our tradition because, because of the number right. We were not like, one person, or one thousand ̶ At that time, I imagine was like, by ten out of ten thousands of them, you know, like they moved into Lebanon. So they lived together like as, as a community so and when you live together as a community, they build church, they build a school. What happens, we were lucky to keep our traditions and everything because we were not dispersed among other religions because you know, Lebanon, there are so many religions, there are no Muslims, different kinds of Muslims, different kind of Christians. You Name it. So, we live ̶ the neighborhood was we were all Armenians. You know the school was not far, the church was not far so I do not even remember I had ̶ a friend. All my friends were Armenian. I know my father because of the work, you know, you get involved with different people but me as a born in Beirut, it was as if I was in Armenia. [laughs] You know, like, all my friends were Armenian, the area was Armenian. That was how we kept our division.

8:37
JK: What are your parents do in Lebanon for work?

8:43
VK: Oh, my father, I think my father was very bright. So what happened is, he came to the States to study university and he graduated from Wyoming University. So, when he returned to Lebanon, he was in the textile business you know, like he was very talented in, in the field, the chemistry field. So he did a lot of things, dyeing textiles, coloring, textiles, printing, so he was in that business. So until the civil war he was he had his own place. He was producing different kind of textiles, silk, cotton um, you know.
9:42
JK: And, so, would you say all of your friends were mostly Armenian growing up?

9:48
VK: Yeah, yeah, Lebanon, we were mostly, like I said, I do not remember I had a friend or another ̶ Yeah, they were all Armenians because we were living in an Armenian neighborhood you know. As I said we had the numbers so we were in the neighborhood of Armenians. You know, when I was schooling when I finished I did not even finish the school so because of the Civil War, so I came I did not have the chance to go out for sure you go to the mountains you go somewhere else in Lebanon. For sure you see little, but that was only temporary ̶ time we spend like with Armenians.

10:34
JK: Did you learn Armenian growing up as a kid or did you speak in the household?

10:43
VK: Yeah, we use ̶ my mother, you know my mother language, my father language was Armenian with the house we used to speak Armenian. Of course in the school we learn Arabic, we learn French, we learn English, as well as Armenian. So ̶ But there is no problem with that.

11:04
JK: And so when you when you were with your siblings and your family would speak mainly Armenian?

11:10
VK: Yeah that time you love or not like, you will not see ̶ it was hardly only the older people they used to speak Turkish because of the back ̶ in their country you know like used to be only Turkish because it was forbidden to speak Armenian in Armenia. But in West Armenia, in eastern Armenia and nor was forbidden to speak Armenia, Armenian you know. You had to speak Turkish so the older people were speaking Turkish at home, but the younger generation somehow learn more Armenian than Turkish, yeah.

12:01
JK: Did your parents know Turkish or no?

12:05
VK: No, no, no. Yeah, my ̶ They used to speak Turkish. Yeah, but they are Armenian. They are Armenians born in eastern Armenia. Eastern Armenia? No, I mean western Armenia. Sorry. Western Armenia is more Turkish speaking because of the Turkish Empire you know? Yeah.

12:27
JK: Yeah.

12:29
VK: Yeah. History is, it is another aspect.

12:39
JK: When, um, when so when your father was in Antep, were your family forbidden to speak Armenian or was there Armenians in the area, would you ̶

12:51
VK: He was, he was forbidden to speak Armenian at home even at home. You know, if you Speak, you have to speak like you have to make sure that you speak there was no nobody hears because if somebody hears and they tell the government you know, they ̶ there were some penalties, big penalties. I do not want to go far. [laughs] But there were some penalties ̶ was very bad becoming in at that time.

13:19
JK: And, how did you ̶ Have you ever wanted to go back to the village or Armenia? Wherever? Have you ever been back?

13:29
VK: No, I have not been but my cousin went, like twenty years, like, I think, or fifteen years ago, she went and there were ̶ she said, there were still some Armenian homes left but with no Armenians, but they turn it to move museums. You know, like, you could tell me in names still you could see some, some history that ̶ it has still kept but now they are all Kurdish and some Turks, you know, because it is an area that Armenia is shared with the Kurdish people, you know, and Kurdish people were Muslim. So that is why they survived because of their religion and we as being a Christian, we had to move on, you know. We had to emigrate south.

14:26
JK: Yeah. And, um, when you move to Montreal, Canada, did you guys keep the Armenian traditions?

14:39
VK: A Yes. For sure. Because Canada, Montreal being a Christian city, you know, and it was easier, you know, religion side, at least more freedom of religious expression and everything. And the tradition. Yeah, there were ̶ As I said, in Beirut there were we had some numbers when we came to Montreal, there was an Armenian community already established here. So but not as much as in Lebanon you know, but still, if you want to keep your tradition you could keep your tradition because you have community which is still remembering the Armenian tradition.

15:29
JK: And um, in the house would you grew up in your household with your family? What kind of traditions did you guys keep that were Armenian like the food or holidays that you celebrated?

15:45
VK: The holidays especially the ̶ all the food for sure, because we were used to it that Mediterranean style food but for sure. We ̶ Canadian French food and Canadian Food is welcome too. Because it is not, it is not complicated as Armenian food so it's easier to make you cannot always make Armenian traditional food so you make Canadian of food which is more convenient. But holidays is the second thing that we respect and remember because of these three.

16:34
JK: Okay. And you attended church in Montreal to you said the community was big right?

16:42
VK: Yeah we have like two, three Armenian churches you know and we do not go as often as before, before we used to go every Sunday now we go like once in a while because you know, it is the cold weather, the way of life, the style of life is different now you do not have as much time to do the way you do things before, you know, but we still go for sure.

17:18
JK: And, it was it. Was it important for you to get married or to be married to Arme ̶ Armenian or?

17:27
VK: Because of the history, you know, like, we have to keep alive the history that we went through and remember where we came from? So, it was for me important maybe some people, they are not old, they do not follow as much as some others and everybody is different in it depends on your beliefs, you know, your beliefs if you forget, it is easy to not get married with an Armenian but if you believe that you have to get married with an Armenian you could get married with an Armenian. So it is all depend on you.

18:15
JK: And, was it important for your family as an adult to keep the Armenian traditions?

18:23
VK: Oh yeah for sure. Especially the closer you from the timing ̶ and close to the refugee time it is stronger the beliefs to stay Armenian to keep the tradition to get married to the Armenian. But now with as the generations move further and further, you see more people not marrying the same.

18:58
JK: And, um, finally, how would you identify or what would you say you identify yourself as in like your homeland? Are you a Canadian, Armenian or Armenian, Canadian or Lebanese, for example? How would you describe your identity?

19:20
VK: I am Armenian Canadian, now. I am naturalized Canadian. Also, I am Armenian Canadian.

19:29
JK: And, um finally, do you think it is important for the Armenian culture to have um the church or the language? What do you think is most important that comes with Armenian culture?

19:53
VK: Part of the Armenian history you know, we were very Christian or we believed in it and the religion is number one I would say number one reason being Armenian you know, and then the language for sure. But mostly the most important is religion because we are known to be very religious Christian. So I think as long as we have the religion we will stay Armenian.

20:29
JK: And, um, do you think you would ever want to go to Armenia?

20:35
VK: Yeah, for sure. I sent my daughter last year to Armenia. Me, it is hard a bit harder to go because of the work I cannot go that far and that longer because to go to Armenia still you have to spend like two three weeks a month you know, I do not have I usually do not take vacation. So maybe what I get tired I would love to go and visit my country.

21:05
JK: Okay, great. Thank you. Is there anything else you want to add about the Armenian culture, your family where they grew up?

21:17
VK: Oh, I know is a nice place that I like to be there. But for now, I cannot be. But the future will see. For now, we hope to visit and really see what kind of place was. Well now I cannot say anything. But we hope that one day we visit.

21:45
JK: Okay, great. Thank you so much.

21:48
VK: You are welcome. Thank you.

(End of Interview)

11/26/2017

Jacqueline Kachadourian

Varoujan Kabakian

Varoujan Kabakian is the son of a genocide survivor who immigrated from Turkey to Lebanon in the early 1900s. Varoujan was born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon. Later on, he moved to Montreal, Canada. He continues to live there with his family.

21:50

Engish

Binghamron University

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Armenians; Lebanon; Turkey; Beirut; Genocide; Survivors; Religion; Culture; Language; Family.