Interview with Mark Kachadourian

Armenian Oral History Project
Interview with: Mark Kachadourian
Interviewed by: Jacqueline Kachadourian
Transcriber: Aynur de Rouen
Date of interview: 14 February 2019
Interview Setting: Vestal, NY
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(Start of Interview)

00:02
JK: My name is Jacqueline Kachadourian and I am interviewing for the Armenian Oral History Project for Binghamton University. Today is February 14 2019. I am interviewing Mark Kachadourian. What is your name? And where are you from?

00:25
MK: My name is Mark Kachadourian and I am from Vestal, New York.

00:34
JK: Tell us about your parents. What are they? Are they Armenian? Both Armenian?

00:45
MK: Yes, my both my parents are both Armenian. Um, my father's name is Henry Kachadourian and, and my mother's maiden name is Victoria Kerbeckian.

01:02
JK: And where are they from?

01:06
MK: My dad was born here in Binghamton, New York. And my mom was born in ̶ when she was younger, she grew up in Queens, New York um, and later moved to Philadelphia, at a young age.

01:28
JK: On both sides of your family or their median in both your parents’ side?

01:34
MK: Yes. Both their parents were Armenian as well.

01:41
JK: And where are they from?

01:44
MK: That, um, I have written down, I do not have it off the top of my head.

01:52
JK: Are they from Armenia? Or ̶ are from the United States?

02:02
MK: No, they were born, um, I a portion of what is known today is Turkey and part of it and the other is in Armenia. So as to specific locations I have written down I do not have it with me here.

02:22
JK: And why is the ̶ do you know what year they left Armenia?

02:29
MK: They left during the Turkish massacre. A number of their ̶ they escaped. But a lot of their family members were killed. So they were the ones that were able to escape.

02:44
JK: Do you recall any stories from that?

02:50
MK: Yes, I remember. My great grandmother, um escaped with my grandmother. When my grandmother was a baby, and there was a family that hit my grandmother in the garbage can so the Turks will not be able to find her. And then from my dad's side, my grandfather escaped by swimming, you know, in a river to escape ̶ being killed from the Turks. I remember him telling me those stories.

03:31
JK: From your father from your grandfather telling you

03:35
MK: From my grandfather telling me.

03:38
JK: So he was there, he personally escaped.

03:41
MK: Yes.

03:44
JK: And do you know or remember how they came to America?

03:48
MK: No, I think my grandmother and ̶ get up got this written down. And, you know, as I get older, my memory is not as good as it used to be. But I have got it written down. And I do not have that literature in front of me. But, um, my grandmother on my mom's side, it's my recollection, she came through Cuba, and, um, and my recollection with my grandmother on my father's side. She may have camped through Montreal, Canada,

04:28
JK: And ended up ̶ from Binghamton or other places in the United States.

04:35
MK: She may have wound up in the New England area and met my grandfather who I think was in this area. And so that was how they happened to settled in this area. But I am not ̶ Again, I have got it written down but that is my recollection off the top of my head.

04:55
JK: Did they tell you any other stories about living in Armenia before the genocide?

05:09
MK: You know, just to my great grandmother that all her children were killed except my grandmother. Um, and that's all I could remember, you know, as a child.

05:26
JK: Did they tell you like, before what it was like in Armenia?

05:33
MK: No, I, you know, it is not a subject I think they, you know, it was like it was a tragedy for them. So with most people, they, um, you know, I guess it is like soldiers that go to war, they just, you know, they come back and, you know, they really try to move on with their lives. And, you know, and do not dwell on the past. And, you know, it was a terrible time and a terrible experience, which, you know, they did not talk much about.

06:06
JK: Then, did they ever get returned back to Armenia?

06:10
MK: No. I do not ̶ Yes, I think my grandfather and I um, I cannot recollect you're going to have to talk to other members of my family. I know. My aunts and my aunt and uncle from my father's side, um, went to Armenia recently and I am not sure if they went back around in the mid to late (19)70s and may have taken my grandparents some um, that I do not have first-hand knowledge of this far as my mom's side. I do not think they ever went back, no.

06:59
JK: Okay, so going through your childhood, did you ever go to Armenian language school or learn Armenian or Bible school?

07:09
MK: Um, the church we went to had Sunday school which I attended and did have language school again you know, it is a number of years ago, but Armenian was the first language we spoke before actually before we spoke English my grandparents or great grandparents you know, they spoke Armenian and you know we were taught Armenian and then we were able to communicate with them and Armenian.

07:41
JK: Can you read and write Armenian?

07:43
MK: No, I cannot read and write Armenian but I could speak it and understand it.

07:51
JK: [inaudible]

07:51
MK: Pretty much so yes, you know, I ̶ it is ̶ of course English is my another language, but I could get I know enough to get by.

08:03
JK: And, did you have any siblings growing up?

08:08
MK: Yes, I did have one sister growing up.

08:11
JK: And what is her name? And how old is she?

08:15
MK: Um, her name is Corrine. And, um, I do not think I am at liberty to give her age.

08:24
JK: What's the age difference between you two?

08:31
MK: Um, I think it is exactly eleven months.

08:37
JK: And did she learn Armenian too? Or ̶

08:40
MK: Yes, she, you know, along with me. We both speak and understand it. And however again, we do not write or read. I mean, it is ̶

08:53
JK: And when you were a kid, where did you grow up?

09:00
MK: As a child ̶ they grew up ̶ Originally I was born in Binghamton and stayed in the Binghamton area until I was about maybe three or four and then I attended first kindergarten in Stamford, Connecticut. And then I attended first grade in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And then we move to back to Binghamton and then attended public schools and graduated high school in Binghamton, New York.

09:39
JK: Do you recall the Armenian communities in Connecticut or Philadelphia?

09:46
MK: I do recall Armenian communities in Philadelphia, vaguely but not in Connecticut. I was really too young to remember that.

10:00
JK: Was it bigger than the community in Binghamton today?

10:05
MK: Yes, it was. You know, Philadelphia is a metropolitan area. So of course, they had larger Armenian community and the community was very active in the church. And now and I remember attending church and Easter's, Easter Sunday, everybody would be dressed up. Um, so yeah, I do remember going to church in Philadelphia,

10:33
JK: Did you attend church regularly, as a kid?

10:38
MK: As a child, growing up, I would say yes.

10:44
JK: And when you came back to Binghamton, was there a big Armenian community or was it significantly smaller?

10:54
MK: It was significantly smaller than Philadelphia, but there was an Armenian community. However, as I got older, the, um, the parishioners of the church got older, and eventually many of them passed away and, um and a lot of the younger people moved away. So the church attendance steadily declined. And, um, you know, as a result of the older parishioners passing away and the younger ones moving away,

11:26
JK: And growing up, did you have any Armenian friends over there, mostly non Armenian?

11:36
MK: Um, I had a couple of Armenian friends but mostly non Armenian, you know.

11:43
JK: And the non-Armenians knew about Armenia or anything?

11:48
MK: Yes, they were. Yes. They were very aware of it. And, you know, um, yes, they were.

11:59
JK: So when you attended high school in Binghamton, did they ̶ was there a lot of Armenians in the school or no?

12:08
MK: No, I think there was one or two others, but no, that was it.

12:14
JK: And would you hang out with them and in school or only in church?

12:19
MK: Mostly at church.

12:28
JK: And so, did you ever attend any camps that would relate to the Armenian community? Or was it just Sunday school and church?

12:42
MK: Just Sunday school and church. However, growing up, we did attend, um, you know, the Armenian community in Philadelphia would have throughout the years, New Year's Eve dance either in Philadelphia or Atlantic City. Growing up for you know, either one, we were in junior high score high school, we would attend those dances with my parents.

13:11
JK: And they had a bigger Armenian community. Those ̶

13:15
MK: Yeah, those dances drew or get togethers drew from the communities of North Jersey, and Philadelphia in the New York City area. So they were well attended and often sold out.

13:32
JK: Did they ever have any events like that in the Binghamton area?

13:38
MK: Not really, I mean, there were a few years where they try to have Armenian dances and, you know, initially there was a lot of enthusiasm, but, um, but later on, it was hard to keep it going and getting heavy attendance. So they eventually, you know, canceled those. But growing up after high school and going into college, they had some dances in North Jersey or get togethers in North Jersey, where young professionals or young Armenians would get together, there will be dances or we can get togethers, which I attended a few times.

14:21
JK: And what were some consistent cultural themes within the Armenian community? When you were growing up, what type of food or events ̶

14:37
MK: Um, types of food you know, there were different types of food, ethnic foods. The most common I guess, that the general public is aware of is like pilav or shish kabobs and often look forward to those and, um, and something called lahmacun which is an Armenian type pizza, but instead of cheese and tomato sauce, it would be made with pink something along the lines of ground meat on a flat breath. And also, you know, from a cultural standpoint, you know, we were, I do not know it was in, I do not know if it was instilled in us but I always believe that due to the sacrifices that our grandparents or great grandparents went through, that it was important to keep the Armenian culture alive. And, you know, as part of that, you know, my goal was to marry an Armenian and have Armenian children.

15:41
JK: So it was important for you to marry in Armenian?

15:45
MK: Yes.

15:46
JK: Was that instilled by your parents, or you?

15:50
MK: I think I do not think they ever outright came out and said that, but I just, you know, having experienced or having seen what my net seen, but having been told what my ancestors at sacrifice, I think it was the least I could do to preserve our culture.

16:15
JK: Have you ever traveled to Armenia or Turkey?

16:18
MK: No.

16:19
JK: Would you ever plan to go to Armenia?

16:23
MK: I am not sure I, you know, I have thought about it. No, I, I am not sure. I had have thought about it, but I am not sure.

16:41
JK: Do you think there is differences between the Armenians who came to America and the people that are means stayed in Armenia?

16:51
MK: Oh, um, that I do not have the knowledge to comment on that. I do not, I do not. I mean, America's to me is the greatest country in the world. And we were very fortunate to be living in this country. And but I cannot I do not have enough knowledge or first-hand knowledge to come make, you know, to form an opinion on it.

17:14
JK: And what would you say you identify as your home? And ̶

17:21
MK: I am American first. And I consider America my homeland. And, you know, but I have got Armenian heritage. So ̶

17:33
JK: Do you attend church regularly today?

17:36
MK: I try to, because of our population decrease? You know, the church, we do not have regular services. So we do have visiting priest and, um, and I tried to attend when, when there are services.

17:57
JK: And how would you define Armenia or to be Armenian?

18:04
MK: To be Armenian is to be part of a culture that has suffered in its history, but has made great progress and contributed to the various countries that Armenians have settled in, for example, I will just try to go through some examples that I am aware of is like their Armenians who have settled in France. And one of those is Alain Prost [Alain Marie Pascal Prost], who is a world championship Formula One driver who has won CIF, multiple Formula One championships, and he is from Armenian heritage. And so he was able to go to a different country and succeed. Another one is, if you go down the list like Kirk Kerkorian, former owner, founder MGM Grand casinos, and theaters, and he was very successful in the business world, and he came to the United States and settled you know, and there are athletes as well, you know, former baseball players, tennis players, such as Andre Agassi, who were able to succeed in in the new homelands that they settled in.

19:22
JK: Then, what do you think is important to the Armenian culture, the language the church? What do you think?

19:31
MK: I think it is their faith in the church. You know, I think it is their faith and their beliefs and, you know, and, and I think their beliefs are driving force in the way they live their daily lives. And as a result, I think you will see many results and um, Armenians being driven to succeed. So in both the business world and, and I think they also contribute to the community as well. Another one of those was Alex Manoogian, who's whose family has given back to the Armenian community and he was very successful in the business world. And I think their faith drives them and it's a great contributor is it leads to their success and other facets of their lives.

20:31
JK: Is there anything else you want to add?

20:37
MK: No, I cannot think of anything else. At this point. I think you covered everything pretty well. Okay.

20:43
JK: Thank you.

20:45
MK: You are welcome. Have a good day.

(End of Interview)

2/15/2019

Jacqueline Kachadourian

Mark Kachadourian

20:47

English

Binghamton University

Audio

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Armenian; Armenia; Armenians; Turkey; Binghamton; Philadelphia; Family; Armenian community; Armenian Church; Dances; Food; Culture.