Interview with Sam Hagopian

Armenian Oral History Project
Interview with: Sam Hagopian
Interviewed by: Jackie Kachadourian
Transcriber: Aynur de Rouen
Date of interview: 11 March 2019
Interview Setting: Phone interview
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(Start of Interview)

00:02
JK: My name is Jackie Kachadourian. I am interviewing Sam Hagopian for Binghamton University's Armenian oral history project. Today is March 11, 2019. Can you please start with some basic biographical information, your name birthplace?

00:19
SH: Sure. My name is Samuel John Hagopian. I was born July 7, 1981. I have lived in the suburban Philadelphia region all my life.

00:31
JK: Great. And can you tell me a little bit about your parents’ your background? Were they both Armenian, your parents? What's their names?

00:41
SH: Sure. My father was Jack Hagopian. He obviously was Armenian. My mother, Eleanor Hagopian, was not. My father passed away in September of 2012.

00:58
JK: Okay, and I am ̶ So you said your father was Armenian? Was he 100 percent Armenian?

01:05
SH: Yes, he was. My grandmother and my grandfather obviously on my father's side were both Armenians. I believe my grandfather was born in America. However, my grandmother was born in [indistinct] in Turkey.

01:21
JK: Okay. And she was, I am assuming, was she born around or during the Armenian massacre?

01:29
SH: Yes. Yes, she was. She was a survivor.

01:32
JK: She was and do you recall any stories or the ̶ how she travelled from that region to America or wherever she ended up?

01:41
SH: Yeah, I mean, she was and I will be bluntly honest, she was put on mother's death marches. She was actually saved by a Turkish general. Who knew the family because my, my grandmother's family was ̶ he was a mayor. She, she stayed with them for a while she moved to Syria, spent some time in Versailles. Meanwhile, some OF the older ̶ she was the youngest one in her family and the older relatives or her brothers and sisters had come to America. And they kept in contact and eventually they brought her to New York.

02:24
JK: Okay, wow. So she traveled a lot. Yes, your journey did. Uh, did you have any siblings with her while she was in the death march besides her brothers who were in the States?

02:39
SH: The one or two one or two of her. One or two of them.

02:44
JK: So she ended up going by herself?

02:47
SH: Yes. Yeah.

02:48
JK: Okay. And on your grandfather's side, was there any others ̶ in a particular stories that you remember from that you can recall?

03:00
SH: Nothing really that I can recall. I actually never met my grandfather he died before I was born. And by the time I came along, we really ̶ the two sides, were not talking between my, my on my father's side.

03:21
JK: Okay. And growing up in the household, was it interesting having an Armenian
side versus a ̶ non-Armenian side and how did the culture influence each other?

03:37
SH: Um, that is actually a really good question. I mean, my ̶ I would say that my mother adapted to the Armenian culture very well. Um, you know, the food and the traditions. Um, you know, it was just it was, it was it was part of who we were. I mean, really, to me. No big deal and we were Armenian. And we were proud to be Armenian.

04:04
JK: And growing up in the Philadelphia area, I know there is a few Arme ̶ It is a popular Armenian spot to grow a family and attend church and stuff like that. Did you have any Armenian friends growing up or ̶

04:19
SH: No? Would they really where I grew up? There were not too many Armenian kids. Um, the schools I went to would have one or two Armenian families in it, but never, never many.

04:32
JK: Okay. And was there an Armenian Church around you when you were growing up or no?

04:39
SH: Yes. Yeah. There were two, there was, there was Holy Trinity in Cheltenham and St. Gregory.

04:47
JK: Okay. And did you ̶ Did you guys attend church regularly as a child?

04:53
SH: As a child? No. After my grandmother passed away, we did go to Holy Trinity some.

05:00
JK: Okay. And did you have any siblings growing up?

05:06
SH: Yes, I have one older sister,

05:08
JK: One older sister. Okay. And um, growing up do you guys ̶ I know you said prior that you are aware of that you are meaning that you are proud to be Armenian. But were there any specific things that you guys would do that connected your Armenian traditions in pass?

05:28
SH: You know, it is funny, I do not know how after you have gotten this answer, but I always remember the food. You know, it was always that was that was the main thing the food. You know, and, you know, as you got older, you know, I know I was ̶ I have managed to read Peter Balakian’s Black Dog of Fate, I believe it is. So, you know, there was always that, you know, and learning, you know, famous Armenians, you know, so I think that is the answer you are looking for there?

06:01
JK: Yeah. Do you recall ̶ did you ̶ did your father cook a lot or your grandmother when she was alive? Did she cook a lot? Like ̶

06:12
SH: Yeah, my grandmother always cooked a lot and she was an excellent cook. My father did cook a little bit he enjoyed cooking. I mean my mother in ̶ you know, shared responsibilities a lot. But yeah, my father liked to cook too, but my grandmother was the best book I ever, ever know.

06:34
JK: Yes. And did ̶ when you were around your grandmother and your father in that side. Did you guys speak Armenian when you were around them or did you guys speak English?

06:49
SH: I spoke English. My grandmother could speak Armenian. My father could speak some Armenian. I have never learned other than the occasional profanity.

07:02
JK: Oh, yes. And did you ̶ So growing up you never learned Armenian or learn how to write Armenian, correct?

07:06
SH: Yeah, I did not go ahead. My sister did take some lessons on on learning how to write learning ̶ how to write and speak Armenian.

07:16
JK: Okay and growing up, did you go to Armenian like Sunday school at all when after you started going to church or?

07:28
SH: I did I was in my late teens at that point.

07:29
JK: Yeah. Um, so do you ever ̶ do attend church regularly now?

07:40
SH: I do not, no.

07:41
JK: Okay. But you still ̶ do still believe that you have like a strong Armenian presence within you and you still want to spread that Armenian culture?

07:52
SH: Yes, yes, I do, yeah I mean, it is, it is you know I know ̶ It is you know, the funniest thing about Armenians is the last three letters of our names. And, you know, when you when you explain to someone, you know, how it breaks down, you know, the, the word, I am looking for the etymology of the word, you know the name, you know, and how it means and what it means and they learn live their life. So anytime I see an IAN an YAN, and I should ask if they know you, yeah, pretty much you know, but that is, you know, more just, you know, you know, I can it goes back to the food. I know, I am sorry. But, you know, you are teaching people Armenian food and those customs and you know, how people, you know, always take to it, and how much they love it.

08:46
JK: Mm hmm. Exactly. And It is really true. I am on your mom's side was ̶ what cultural background did she have?

09:01
SH: She was ̶ her, her father was Scots Irish. Her mother was Swedish.

09:06
JK: Okay. And did you guys which do you think mostly prevailed in the culture ̶ Did you mainly learn about mostly like Armenian stuff? Or also like the Irish Swedish side as well?

09:22
SH: I would say we learned about both equally. You know, we always ̶ you know, the traditions of the family you know, what they did growing up and, and that sort of thing.

09:36
JK: Yeah, exactly. And, and ̶ to you now is, let us see. Um, so, going back to, I am jumping around here going back ̶ Was there any memories that your grandmother shared of her living in Armenia, or the Ottoman Empire agent before the genocide occurred?

10:13
SH: Not really. And when it came to talk about that. I can only remember her ever doing that once. And it really took a lot convincing from my father to have her open up and talk about that. I do not think she really wanted to talk about that. Too much. It was, you know, I mean, she saw her mother and father killed right in front of her.

10:47
JK: Okay, so her grandparents, I mean, parents never made it to the United States.

10:55
SH: No.

10:57
JK: Okay. And do you know how her brothers ended up, u p in the United States.

11:02
SH: They ̶ not really I mean, they were managed to, to, to to ̶ I think some of them had come over already. And they had kept in touch. Okay.

11:20
JK: When your grandmother came over here, was it? Did you sense that it was important to her for to keep the Armenian traditions alive? And ̶

11:31
SH: Yes. I do not mean to interrupt you there, but yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. 110 percent. You know, it was not that she ̶ you know, was showing her path. She just did not want to talk about that.

11:44
JK: Mm hmm. Yeah, that's very understandable. And I am sure it was her very horrific. The circumstances that she went through ̶

11:55
SH: And I should also say ̶ she was only ̶ she was a very young girl. She was probably nine or ten years old.

12:03
JK: Oh, wow. That is crazy. Um, and so it must have been hard prior before the massacres occurred to really remember anything at all.

12:20
SH: Yeah, I mean, I know she had some memories. But yeah, I think it was more important. You know, coming to America.

12:28
JK: Yeah. And starting the new life and when she came over she settled in Philadelphia or ̶

12:40
SH: She actually settled in New York and then she moved. She, she married my grandfather and came down to the Philadelphia region.

12:49
JK: Okay. And um, what ̶ Growing up half Armenian 50 percent Armenian ̶ Did you guys ever celebrate ̶ like Armenian traditions? Like, I know we have our own Armenian Christmas? Or do you guys celebrate both?

13:09
SH: I mean, we mainly celebrated the main ̶ you know, Christmas, Christmas and Christmas and, you know, there was always, you know, phone call that day from my grandmother and you know, even now as we move on in our extended families you know, we kind of we always have like ̶ It seems like it works out for and when I say extended family meaning not blood, blood relatives ̶ Yes, just family, the people that you consider family, it always works for us to get together on our meaning Christmas ̶ to have a Christmas celebration. So in some ways it lives on.

13:54
JK: Yes, exactly. And going off of that have you ever traveled to Turkey or Armenia?

14:04
SH: I have not.

14:08
JK: And would you, would you have a desire to do that in the future?

14:12
SH: Yes. Yeah, I think I would. I would like I would like to go there.

14:15
JK: Okay. And like learn about the culture more.

14:19
SH: Yeah.

14:20
JK: Great. And, uh, what would you identify ̶ say you identify as your homeland? Like ̶

14:29
SH: America. You know, I do have Armenian roots, but I was born here in America.

14:36
JK: Yes. And so you would, and how would you identify yourself like Armenian American, American Armenian, or just American?

14:47
SH: I would probably be American Armenian.

14:53
SH: But I would also be an American, you know, Irish Americans. You know, I mean, you know, I would like that Am I selfish who I am and what I, what my past is as well?

15:03
JK: Yes. And now that you are older ̶ rather than looking now at today, do you see yourself holding on to those Armenian traditions? And if so, why and why is it important to you? If it is ̶

15:25
SH: I do hold on to a lot of them. You know, just you know, I keep coming back to the food I am sorry, Jacqueline. You know, it is, it is, you know, recreating those memories of growing up and then you know, having shish kebab and having, you know, all this great food and you know, talking with people ̶ It is, it is something that I always enjoyed, and I, I do not want to see that go away.

15:56
JK: Mm hmm, exactly. And did you ever learn how to cook these foods from your grandmother or your father?

16:02
SH: Um, not so much for my grandmother. You know, I watched her, I learned some from my, you know, through my sister, who, you know, my grandmother taught some things to. Learn a little bit from my father. Um, but you know, a lot of it is just been, you know, reading on Armenian culture online and watching you know, you know if there is a documentary, they always mentioned the food and, you know, just, just watching that and learning from there.

16:36
JK: Yes, exactly. And I am going back to the idea of the church. Do you think Christianity plays an important role in being Armenian? If so, why or why not?

16:55
SH: I do believe so. You know, when you had, you know, all these people coming to America It gave them an identity and something to, you know, for lack of a better term, you know, stay together and, you know, be surrounded by people, you know.

17:15
JK: Yeah, exactly. And what do you think is the most important part of being Armenian? Is it the language you talk to a lot about the food? The church, what do you think are the most important aspects of the Armenian culture?

17:39
SH: There is ̶ I cannot give you one answer. Jacqueline, I would have to almost say almost everything you mentioned. I mean, you know, the church being the first Christian nation. You know, when you tell someone that they, they, they almost are taken aback because so many people have never heard of Armenia, Armenians. The food because that is you know, that is how we always identified that it was, you know, our family would come down from New York and it would be, you know, this big party and there would be tons of food and, you know, everyone telling stories and laughing and joking. You know, the language I mean, there is, there is no language, like, the Armenian language in the Armenian alphabet that I know of. You know, you cannot, you know, it is it is, it is almost often ̶ It is like, own area. So I think there is, you know, you cannot just put one thing down us.

18:49
JK: Yes, yeah. As Armenian. Um, that is true. And as you grow older I forgot to mention, are you married at all?

19:02
SH: I am not, no.

19:04
JK: If growing up, was it ever pressured for you to like bury in Armenian or?

19:11
SH: No.

19:11
JK: So you could. Okay, that is, that is good to hear. And if very when you have children, if you do, do you want to teach them about the Armenian culture and keep that alive? Or do you think it's going to be more of an Americanized way of living?

19:33
SH: No, there will be Armenian culture and where they came from. I mean, they would they would have to know that ̶ to know who they are, and I am probably jumping around here but like to, you know, what my grandmother always taught me was, you know ̶ Let me let me rephrase this. To ̶ You know, every day, you know, when I think of I had a bad day or something went wrong, you know, I think of what she went through and the sacrifices she made to get to America. And if I did not ̶ If she did not make those sacrifices, I could not have the life I live now. You know, I own my own home, I work I have a successful job. You know, that is ̶ she made those sacrifices for me. So, you know, me having a child at some point of my life would be some extension of her dream. You know, to have, to have you know, grandkids and great grandkids. So, I know I am rambling here but that is essentially what I you know, why would teach them where they have been?

20:59
JK: Yeah I know, that is super important I completely agree. So I think that is it. Is there anything else you would like to add?

21:10
SH: No, thank you very much for contacting me. I think this is an amazing thing you are doing so important to who we are.

21:18
JK: Yeah, I completely agree. Really documenting the history.

21:22
SH: Yes.

21:23
JK: Yeah. All right. Well.

(End of Interview)

3/11/2019

Jacqueline Kachadourian

Sam Hagopian

Sam Hagopian was born and raised in Philadelphia.  His father was the son of the son of immigrants who escaped the Armenian genocide.  Sam learned about the Armenian culture from his grandmother and father.  He still resides and works in Philadelphia.

21:25

English

Binghamton University

Audio

This audio file and digital image may only be used for educational purposes. Please cite as Armenian Oral History Project, Binghamton University Libraries, Binghamton University, State University of New York. For usage beyond fair use please contact the Binghamton University Libraries for more information.

Armenians, Family, Genocide, Food, Traditions, Culture, Church, Sacrifices, Generations.