Interview with Edwin and Marion Link
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Broome County Oral History Project
Interview with: Edwin and Marion Link
Interviewed by: Wanda Wood
Date of interview: 18 September 1978
Wanda: This is Wanda Wood interviewing Mr. Edwin Link at 10 Avon Rd., Binghamton, NY. The date is the eighteenth of September, 1978. Mr. Link, we'd like to—a have you tell us some of your recollections of early aviation in Broome County, if you would.
Mr. Link: All right. I first started to fly down at the old Bennett's Field off DeForest St., which isn't a field anymore. And—a I soloed in 1926 and been flying ever since. There were previous flyers here in Binghamton that might been interesting to have on record, for instance Basil Rowe, Pan-American's first pilot, flew here of of Bennett Field years ago. Another very well-known pilot that's been in this vicinity and, and recently died in Waverly was Earl Southee. They were both ahead of me and—a then there was Dick Bennett, of course, as he was pretty well-known after those two.
Wanda: And he was the one the field was named for, right?
Mr. Link: Ahh—Dick Bennett—a probably gave me most of my instruction though I'd had some previous instruction in California by—a Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother, back in—in 1919 and 1920, but I didn't complete it. I was just going to high school then. I didn't have enough money to continue, and besides my father forbade me to fly at that time. So…
Wanda: But that was your first experience in flying—was in California?
Mr. Link: Yes.
Wanda: Do you remember what sort of plane you learned in?
Mr. Link: Well my first plane that I flew in was the old Curtis Jenny. It was a World War I training plane and—a the second plane I was training in—I had to get it at various places and this was at Binghamton—was a Curtis Oriole. It was really a, a newly-designed Jenny. It was like it but really a new one to take place. It was designed new in 1919, that was our Curtis Oriole plane. I took some instruction in that in California also in 1919. Now what more can I say?
Wanda: Well it takes a lot of imagination to—a try to think what it was like when you started flying. What was it like when you actually got into a cockpit in a plane? What did it look like?
Mr. Link: Well it didn't look like much. There was only a tachometer in the cockpit. That was the only instrument we had. It tells the revolutions of the engine.
Mrs. Link: No compass?
Mr. Link: Ahh—we didn't have a compass in some of 'em. Compass was a new-fangled—a idea. But—a that—an air speed and a compass were usually added. But the original planes first, only had a, they had the engine instruments—tachometer, oil gauge, oil pressure and—a oil temperature and water temperature because they were a water-cooled airplane then. And that was a out all and they were all at that time stick-controlled, not with the little wheel like most of the planes use today.
Wanda: And your two foot controls...?
Mr. Link: What?
Wanda: ...your two foot pedals?
Mr. Link: Two foot pedals. That's all they used to have—or rudder bar, actually they weren't pedals then. They had just a stick across and you could put your feet on each end of that. We called it a rudder bar—so that was all there was in an airplane in those earliest days. And then—a later when some of the other instruments were invented they were added, but it came along 19—a 30 before the other instruments, or instrument flying had even a remote start, that is, flying without vision.
Mrs. Link: Well in 1930 you had to have, by that time, you had to have an altimeter and a compass.
Mr. Link: I had a turn and bank indicator and that was just invented about then, the turn and bank indicator.
Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer…
Mr. Link: What?
Mrs. Link: When you equipped the first trainer it had those instruments in it.
Mr. Link: It had a... the first trainers had the essential instruments in of the day, which was the turn and bank indicator, the compass, the air speed and a rate of climb indicator. That was all of the instruments in the first… That was considered a well-equipped instrument flying airplane. And the first trainers had those instruments in it to teach them how to use them because there was quite a lot said in the day that you...didn't need instruments to fly. Most of those pilots died shortly. They said they could fly by the feel of the airplane better. As I say, most of them didn' live very long if they did that. As a matter of fact, before I invented the trainer a man out in Wright Field—this somewhat gave me some of the ideas to invent the trainer—a Major Ocker took a seat and put it on a stool that would revolve, and then he'd blindfold the people and twist them around in this seat a few times, then ask them which way they were turning. And they invariably said the wrong way. And that was one of the things that gave me the idea that you could make a whole airplane to train a pilot to do everything. He was merely demonstrating just what I repeated: that you couldn't tell where you were going by sight or feel. You had to have an instrument that told you where you were turning and whether you were flying straight or level and so forth, that we had no natural ability like a bird, to do so. And even birds haven't, it's been proved later, 'cause they sometimes fly right into a building and things by accident or at night when they scatter. So they don't have much either. That was the way the early flying was. And then, along in the thirties came in these instruments and—a people were beginning to learn how to use them, including myself, and then I thought that—a you could build a machine that would… a trainer that would teach you, rather than going out in the air which was expensive, and slow, and you had to have the weather to do it in—that you could learn most of it on the ground, which some…which most people wouldn't buy at that time. They just thought that was silly, but—a time has proved differently.
Wanda: It certainly has.
Mrs. Link: It might be interesting, Ed, if you'd tell about how flying was taught back when you learned to fly, and how much longer it took, and—a how much more difficult it was.
Mr. Link: Well it was taught, and of course it's still taught that way to a limited extent—but it's a very expensive way—is to get in a… Now they get into a small airplane with a pilot and—a try to fly the airplane…and fly it with the pilot until he—a takes it away from you for reasons of mistakes and so forth. And you can… They still don't know how to fly. And primary flying is learned that way. But there's very little flying, instrument flying, learned in the air nowadays, because you can't simulate the…some of the conditions of instrument flight which is done in bad weather and you've either gotta fly instruments or else. So that's why a trainer proved to be valuable—because you could fly anytime you wanted and the weather didn't have to be bad to get instrument training. It could be simulated in a trainer. That’s—a the main thing, in that I, of course, after we built the first trainer—which was built almost simultaneous to the time I was, had learned, after I'd learned to fly—'29, wasn't it? Or ’28-'29.
Mrs. Link: '29.
Mr. Link: And that was built at the old Endicott airport where I was flying—a commercially. Most of the money that I made flying, I used to help develop the trainer.
Mrs. Link: You built the first one down in the Link Piano Company on Water St.
Mr. Link: That was not an instrument-flying trainer.
Mrs. Link: Oh, you're talking about the instrument trainer.
Mr. Link: The first instrument, the first instrument-flying trainer we built in Endicott. The first primary-flight trainers were built in the old Link Piano Company factory on Water St., which has now been torn down.
Wanda: That's gone.
Mr. Link: It's interesting to note that the, that I've got one thing in common with IBM. Bundy Time Recorder Company started in the same factory that I started in—in the same building, which later turned out to be IBM, as you know.
Wanda: Well you both accomplished your purpose very well, didn't you?
Mr. Link: What?
Wanda: You both accomplished your purpose…
Mr. Link: Yeah. We were both, we both started in the same building anyway, which is interesting.
Mrs. Link: You know, it's the fiftieth anniversary next year of the Link instrument trainer and—a they will be celebrating next year.
Wanda: Good. Good. That's good to know. You had a sign, a plane that carried a sign for night flying, didn't you?
Mr. Link: Yes, I had several planes that—the main thing in the early thirties was to try to make a living to eat, because that was the time of the big crash of money and everything. So—a there wasn't any jobs of any other type and I was—the only thing I knew, other than piano and organ building which I'd learned in my father's factory, which was down there on Water St., was—a flying an airplane. So I—a used an airplane to earn a living with because that was one thing you could still—a sell, was rides in an airplane, what we called barnstorming in those days—go around to small towns in various places and fly over the town at about fifty feet and get everybody out. And then they'd come out to the field and then you'd sell 'em rides in the airplane. Most of 'em were…just cow pastures, ordinary cow pastures and—a…
Wanda: So you'd get your crowd that way and then…
Mr. Link: ...started that way, yes. Then the sign that Marion was speaking of—I thought there, there was coming along things that—a needed advertising. Advertising, there were still companies trying to sell products like Enna Jettick shoes, Dunn-McCarthy, and I sold them a…
Mrs. Link: Spaulding Bread and Utica Beer—Utica Club Beer—
Mr. Link: ...and so I constructed a sign that had—a what you'd call universal letters under the wings on an airplane. And I used a roll like a piano roll to—we'd call it a programmer nowadays, but we just called it a, a roll—that would form the different letters under the wings of the airplane and say, "Drink Utica Club Beer," or, "Enna Jettick Shoes are the most comfortable," and various things like that, short messages. Then I would fly it over town at night and earn better rates of pay than I could get riding a student around all the time. I put the students in the trainers and I took to the air, to teach them.
Mrs. Link: Well in those days they didn't have lighted airports and—a they had to put out these little pots along the runways that they put on areas of the road, you know, when there's a hole?
Mr. Link: Just open-flame pots, to mark it.
Mrs. Link: And that was all they had to take off and land.
Mr. Link: Well they were called cow pastures, practically, and you couldn't call Bennett Field more than a cow pasture. You couldn't call the old Endicott Airport—a, which is now built up completely with houses—previous to the field that they have there now—more than a, a cow pasture either. 'Course Broome County Airport wasn't built. Tri-Cities Airport wasn't built and Binghamton Airport—which is still in existence—is out in Chenango Bridge and that was actually a cow pasture. It belonged to a farmer by the name of Haskell.
Mrs. Link: Wanda took some flying lessons there, she said.
Mr. Link: Did you?
Wanda: Yes.
Mr. Link: Oh, from the Johnson brothers?
Wanda: The Johnson boys, yes.
Mr. Link: From the Johnson brothers, did you?
Wanda: Yes.
Mrs. Link: She said she lives just in back of Pete and Mildred Dougherty, out there.
Mr. Link: Oh. Oh. Well, we lived there, too, for a little while on the river bank, but our house floated away one time.
Wanda: Is that a fact? In the '35 flood, or the ’36?
Mrs. Link: Yes. Let's see...well we lived there in '31. That's the first year we were married and Ed was flying out of there. And—a, but the flood came after this, we weren't living there when the flood came.
Wanda: Oh, fortunate for you.
Mrs. Link: But it was a little cottage there on the Haskell farm that was on the river bank—lovely spot. And Ed had his—a, used to take up parachute jumpers there on that field and they'd put on the night shows.
Wanda: Well they had some marvelous air shows around here in that age, didn't, weren't there? Big—a…
Mrs. Link: They did a lot of things.
Mr. Link: Well, air shows were always an idea to make a little money flying, when you could get a crowd out, but Marion made more money selling hot dogs than I did flying airplanes…to the crowd.
Mrs. Link: That was when we were up in Cortland. Ed was renting the Cortland airport, after they closed the Endicott one.
Wanda: Well there were a number of small airfields around here, weren't there? Wasn't there one at Conklin when... people first started really getting—
Mr. Link: Oh, they were, they were, you couldn't call them an airport. They were really just cow pastures that they chased the cows off from.
Mrs. Link: Little strips, landing strips.
Mr. Link: But—a they were used as airports. We called them an airport.
Wanda: I suppose any place that you could sell gas from you could use.
Mr. Link: Yeah. Yeah, it was just a question of having it big enough to take off from. Those old airplanes didn't need very much room because there weren't airports. Aircraft were made to take off in short, small spaces. And of course they wouldn't go very fast either. If you had an airplane that went…80 or 90 mile an hour, that was quite a fast airplane.
Wanda: Well it must have been interesting taking cross-country flights in those times, too—when you first started out.
Mr. Link: Well there wasn't very much cross-country done for passenger work. There was a—start of the first airline in Binghamton was called the Martz Airline and they were, they started, it was by the Martz Bus people that started it. And they were flying from Bufflo to New York in an eight passenger airplane. And—a they were really the first airline there in New York. Mrs. Link: Did they have to have intermediate stops? Did they stop here?
Mr. Link: Oh yeah, they stopped at Elmira, Corning, and…
Mrs. Link: I don't remember that, even.
Mr. Link: Oh—it was before your day, I guess.
Mrs. Link: Oh—they really had an airline going that far back?
Mr. Link: Yeah...it was ticked as an airline.
Mrs. Link: That would have been in the twenties.
Wanda: Do you remember what kind of planes they were?
Mr. Link: Well, they were Bellanca, the same type that—a Clarence Chamberlain and Ruth Elder tried to fly across the ocean in. They were—when they didn't have…full of gasoline, you could carry eight passengers for a couple hundred miles before you had to get gas again.
Wanda: No overnight flights, I don't suppose, either.
Mr. Link: Oh no. No night flying at all 'cause there were no lighted fields. And then the government, to help these—there were a number of 'em started all over the United States—to help them find their way at night, to start at night, put in a system of beacon lights in between airports. So that's all you had to guide you from one airport or another, was a beacon light every twenty miles. If you couldn't see 'em you couldn't get there. So it was all...visual flying…with these beacon lights. So that's early aviation in Broome County.
Wanda: What—a, what about this—a Endicott Aero Club?
Mr. Link: Well it was the…
Wanda: Was that the first such thing around here?
Mr. Link: It was the first aero club formed in Broome County, which I was a member of and—a it was just a group of people that were interested in flying and probably a good share of the Aero Club was made up of my students that were...and it was just like any other club. It was because they were interested in flying. They'd meet once a month or something like that—what we would call “hangar fly.” They would talk things over, their flying and so forth.
Wanda: And that field was across from where the Enjoie Country Club was?
Mr. Link: What?
Wanda: Was that across from where Enjoie Country Club is now? Somewhere down in there?
Mr. Link: Well the original Endicott Airport was right across from the golf club there. It's built up now with houses. It was along the railroad tracks there. That was the...there were only two fields. The first two fields was that field and the Bennett Airport field—a down by DeForest St. Then a man by the name of Rowe started the, what he called the Binghamton Airport, and that was at Chenango Bridge. And later—while I flew out of all of them extensively, 'cause we were right around here for one reason or the other—later I based at the Binghamton Airport and then after that I based at the Endicott Airport, the original one, not the present one, and continued the work of developing the trainer there. I'd use my students, sorta, as guinea pigs on the trainer.
Wanda: Was that part of your flying—a lesson?
Mr. Link: What?
Wanda: Was the use of the trainer part of your course in flying?
Mr. Link: Yes. Yes. Actually one of the reasons I was so interested in teaching flying was because I felt that I, it was a good proving ground more to learn how to build a trainer, than teach, because I could teach them on the ground and then I took 'em up in the air and found out what they didn't learn and then maybe improve the trainer to take its place, make it better.
Wanda: Iron out the problems that way.
Mr. Link. Uh huh.
Mrs. Link: Well Ed had the whole school set-up and the whole course, including solo, for $85.
Wanda: Amazing!
Mrs. Link: And it was $35 for the ground school and the trainer.
Mr. Link: And $50…
Mrs. Link: And then when they had suffcient training time and he felt they were qualified to go in the air, then the other fifty dollars applied to the air time until they soloed. And it didn't make any difference how many hours it took them. $85 covered the whole thing, through solo.
Mr. Link: I'd guarantee to teach them to fly for $85 then. If they didn't, I'd refund their money. That's the deal I put on.
Mrs. Link: And he had one class a week at night in, in ground school, and they had to pass that before they qualified to go in the air.
Mr. Link: And I used the trainer in the class to, to find out. The reason I didn't have very many refunds is, I discovered when they cou—that they weren't able to fly in the trainer, so I'd kick them out of the school, I'd flunk 'em out. So if I hadn't…
Mrs. Link: Well, they were pretty, most of them qualified, though. It took a different…
Mr. Link: Well most any normal person can qualify to fly. It isn't…
Mrs. Link: —it might have taken them a longer time.
Mr. Link: —walking or riding a bicycle or driving an automobile.
Wanda: I think that's true.
Mr. Link: Sometimes we'd have—a people that are a little mixed up and they can't drive a car either. So, if they drove a car pretty well they could learn to fly an airplane.
Wanda: That's a wise way to do it. Umm... What else do we have down here?
Mr. Link: Is your recording machine working all right?
Wanda: Seems to be going.
Mr. Link: Let's don't do a lot of talking if it isn't.
Wanda: No. It's doing fine. I just wondered if there's anything you could think of that I didn't have down here on the, on the list.
Mr. Link: Well, let's see what you have here.
Wanda: Mrs. Link, you were part of this, all through the career—his flying career?
Mrs. Link: Well actually I met Edwin, I came to Binghamton in 1929. That was the year that the trainer was first completed. And—a, and I met him soon after that. We were married in 1931, and as he said, it was during the Depression years, so we, I worked with him all through those years. And I took care of the office work, and the typing and the, all the background things. [Telephone rings.] Excuse me.
Mr. Link: She learned to fly also.
Wanda: And she learned to fly?
Mr. Link: Yes. At that time, she learned to fly up there.
Wanda: She mentioned that she does the, the navigating, or did the navigating quite often for you.
Mr. Link: Yes. 'Course we didn't have regular air maps as they have—then. We just had an ordinary map, where now they have air maps, you know.
Wanda: You mean you, when you first started, you used like a road map?
Mr. Link: That's all. Yeah. [He is called to the telephone.] Trainer I mentioned is the Jenny. That's the JN-4. That was the World War I training plane. And then I flew a Sikorsky wing Jenny, which Igor Sikorsky—the inventor of the helicopter—decided that to make a training plane he could put a more modern wing on the, on the airplane. And so I flew that some. And then I flew OX-4 Waco, which was a biplane of early days. And then I flew the OX-10 Waco, which was a newer one that was brought out in about '35, considered a very wonderful airplane. It was…quite a laugh when you think of it now, but it was a biplane. And then I bought the Number'Cessna, the first Cessna that Cessna ever built that was eligible, that he could sell. He'd built a...couple of haywire models before, but this was the first one that was ever built that he, that would really...was engineered through. Number 1.
Mrs. Link: I said I thought it was one of the very first cabin-type monoplanes.
Mr. Link: Cantilever?
Mrs. Link: Ca—cabin-type.
Mr. Link: It wasn't the first, no.
Mrs. Link: One of the first then.
Mr. Link: One of the early, first.
Mrs. Link: And a monoplane.
Mr. Link: But it was Number One Cessna that—a flew, other than, you might say he built some rough, crude models of airplanes before that, but this was the first one that was really—of his airplanes—that was a complete airplane. And—a of course the Cessna company has been a very successful company and they've built thousands and thousands of airplanes since then. I went out in Wichita with Dick Bennett, who was flying here at Bennett Field, and we flew it back to Binghamton.
Wanda: Oh...that must have been an adventure.
Mr. Link: That was quite a long trip in those days. And—a then I had the OX—Travel—the OX is the old war-type motor that they used at that time mostly—Travelaire, and then later I got a Sieman's Halske, which was a German motor. We didn't build a suitable motor in this country at that time.
Wanda: What was the name of that?
Mr. Link: Sieman's Halske, it's the German electric…
Mrs. Link: H-a-l-s-k-e, S-i-e-m-a-n.
Mr. Link: Well there were no small engines built in this country at that time for us, suitable for us.
Wanda: Is that a fact?
Mr. Link: So we had, my Number'Cessna had an Anzani, which was a French engine, in it. And the OX5, it was an American-built engine, but it was built during the war, and it was not a modern engine as of...that day.
Mrs. Link: You said, when you were talking about the OX10 and you said 1935, you meant 1925, didn't you? Didn't you say there were two OXes?
Mr. Link: Well the Waco-9, OX5 engine, Waco-9 was built in about '25. And then afterwards Waco brought out a later model, which they called the OX10.
Mrs. Link: Mmm, but that was in the '20's, not in the '30's, wasn't it?
Mr. Link: In the late '20's, that was, yes.
Wanda: Well, how about this old Ford Tri-motor that you had?
Mr. Link: Then I had various other—I can show you a picture of it back here.
Mrs. Link: You had an Eaglet and you had a Curtis Pusher.
Mr. Link: Had—a various other planes, all kinds of planes in between.
Wanda: That Curtis Pusher, was it open, open cockpit?
Mr. Link: That was what they called the Curtis Jr.
Mrs. Link: Yes.
Mr. Link: Wacos, Travelaires—
Mrs. Link: —Stinsons.
Mr. Link: Swallows, Stinsons. Those were all early airplanes that I owned at one time and flew or—owned several because I was running a flying service then, and a school and I had—a more than one airplane.
Wanda: Now this Tin Goose that you owned, it, what was that used for? Passengers, mail?
Mr. Link: Passengers, yes and then I put a sky sign underneath it.
Wanda: Oh, that was one of 'em.
Mr. Link: One of 'em that I put the sign under. I'm trying to [leafing through a book on the Johnson Flying Service] Johnson book—82, I guess it is. I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service, that's how I happen to be looking up one, and then somebody got a picture of it in…
Wanda: And it's still being flown?
Mr. Link: So far as I know it's still being flown. The account of the Johnson Flying Service is here in this book.
Wanda: Must have quite a few hours on it. Well, this was one of the first…
Mr. Link: Here it is right here.
Wanda: ...passenger planes as such, wasn't it? Oh, my. [looking at the photo in the book]
Mrs. Link: Yes, for its size. The Tri-motor was a very unusual airplane.
Mr. Link: Afterwards I sold it to the Johnson Flying Service. I carried thousands of passengers in that plane.
Wanda: And where did you…
Mr. Link: It carried eighteen people, if you wanted it—sixteen to eighteen. We could crib a little bit and carry eighteen.
Wanda: Well, where did you fly that, out of Binghamton?
Mr. Link: Out of Binghamton, yes. And then I flew it, I barnstormed it around the country, too, taking it… They were a very high performance airplane. We call them STOL airplanes now, an airplane of that type, but—short take-off and landing airplane. They were sort of redesigned then.
Mrs. Link: And people got a real thrill out of flying in one of those big tri-motors.
Mr. Link: That was the biggest airplane of its day, the—a Tri-motor Ford. That was considered a huge airplane. It was an all metal airplane, too, one of the first.
Wanda: Oh, it was?
Mr. Link: Yes, one of the first.
Wanda: Did you have a regular route that you took passengers on?
Mr. Link: No, I didn't carry passengers then. Later I, because…
Mrs. Link: You had a pilot, too, that did a lot of the flying.
Mr. Link: I had a pilot working for me then. I had a whole flying service, too. I had four or five airplanes, including the Tri-motor Ford. Then I had mechanics working for me rebuilding aircraft and keeping my airplane up, or our airplanes up. I probably had as many as ten or twelve people, total, out in, in—a…that was at Tri-Cities Airport.
Wanda: Oh yes.
Mr. Link: The building's still there that—a I used.
Mrs. Link: That was after Cortland, that was after Cortland, wasn't it?
Wanda: You operated out of Cortland for quite a while, didn't you, too?
Mr. Link: Yeah, well they had, I was in at the Tri-Cities first. It wasn't Tri-Cities called then. It was called Endicott Airport. In a little wooden building, and that's the place where the houses are all built up now. And then because Cortland built a better airport and they had a, a hangar that you could even put a Tri-Ci, or a Tri-motor Ford in, I went there because I needed the hangar and I didn't have the money to build one. I built—
Mrs. Link: Oh, Edwin, remember the... that was when George F. decided he didn't want an airport there any longer, in Endicott.
Mr. Link: Well, we…
Mrs. Link: That's a good story for these Binghamton records.
Mr. Link: Well, what—we were flying there and George F. didn't believe in flying.
Wanda: Is that a fact!
Mr. Link: And George F. was—word was law around here at the time. But—a Charlie Johnson and—a—
Mrs. Link: George W.
Mr. Link: —George W. Johnson both liked to fly and they would—a usually sneak down in the, to the airport in the morning and fly with me. They were always good for an airplane ride and I was, I needed the money and they'd take a flight with me. And then George F. heard about this and he says, "You're not, my sons aren't going to fly and you're not going to fly out of Endicott—our field. I'm going to close it down." And I went to see Mr. Johnson to, I said, "Well, one of the difficulties is I've got about ten or twelve men working out there and if you close the field down it puts me out of business and it puts about ten or twelve people out of business." And I said, "There is a possibility I could move to Cortland but,” I said, “that's going to cost me—a some money, five or six hundred dollars that I don't have and can't afford to bear it.” He says, "How much is it gonna cost you?" And I said, "Five hundred dollars." And he sat down and wrote me a check and gave me five hundred dollars to move.
Wanda: Oh, that's rare!
Mrs. Link: So then in the years—
Mr. Link: So I went to Cortland.
Mrs. Link: In the intervening years while he was in Cortland, then the Tri-Cities Airport got its start, because the other flying that was occurring in this area had to have a place to go, too. And—a so they finally started the other airport.
Wanda: Well, but he didn't actually close the field, did he?
Mrs. Link: Yes.
Wanda: He really did.
Mr. Link: Yes he did—it's never been flown off since. Later they built the Tri-Cities, the village built the Tri-Cities Airport, but the field originally was his...property.
Wanda: Oh, I see.
Mr. Link: It was right alongside of the road across from the golf club. Oh yes, he closed the field and it's never opened, it's always been closed. But then later, they built the field—a the Tri-Cities Airport which is there now, but the original field—
Wanda: Well, it's probably just as well, this would have been…
Mr. Link: —but the original field, usually Chambers of Commerce pay people to come to town, but this, this time I was paid to get out of town. And I took most of my employees with me.
Mrs. Link: Well in Cortland, in Cortland they got a real start for the—a trainer, with the Army and all. And then when he came back here, the airport had been built down there at Tri-Cities, so he had a place to come to. And—a then he started manufacturing the trainer here because the war years were about to start, you know, and there was a lot of interest in training, training airplanes at that time. But not with the United States so much. It started in Japan and in Russia and in other outside countries. And it wasn't until after we got back here and settled on Gaines St. that they—
Mr. Link: Well the first six…
Mrs. Link: —started to have an interest in—a…
Wanda: That's where the first factory was for the trainer?
Mrs. Link: Mmm, Gaines St.
Wanda: Gaines St. You had a number of moves, too, didn't you?
Mrs. Link: Mmhmm.
Wanda: As the business expanded?
Mr. Link: Yes. And of course, we kept growing and we outgrew our buildings almost before we could move in.
Mrs. Link: There while we were on Gaines St., that flood of—was that 1936? I guess it was.
Wanda: The big one? Yes.
Mrs. Link: Yeah, that wiped us out there again.
Mr. Link: And fire, with it.
Mrs. Link: And what?
Mr. Link: And a fire occurred in it. That whole block burned up there.
Mrs. Link: So then we moved over to—a, what's the name of that—a?
Mr. Link: Montgomery St.
Mrs. Link: Montgomery St. Over there on, in back of the highway.
Mr. Link: And that was a big building for us then, but we outgrew that in a short time. Then we went up to Hillcrest, which was, had been the old Larrabee-Deyo Truck place, originally built by Nestle's during the war. Then Larrabee-Deyo took over the building, and then later we took it over and we still own it. We still build trainers there. But we have another factory, of course, in—a, up at—a
Mrs. Link: Conklin area.
Mr. Link: And another one in England, too.
Wanda: Mrs. Link said—a, while you were out, that you might have something to say about some of the old pilots that came around here, a—landed around in these airports and that you knew.
Mr. Link: Well, of course I being the principal aviator around this area at the time, any new people that came to—a town, I would meet and all, and some of them were well-known people of the day. Clarence Chamberlain was one of the first to fly the Atlantic; Billy Brock who was the first one to fly around the world in a land plane; and—a I also met Lindbergh at that time, when he landed down here in Choconut. And there were numerous other of those.
Wanda: He was forced down, wasn't he?
Mr. Link: What?
Wanda: He was forced down?
Mr. Link: Yeah—bad weather. He landed in a field down here, like we always did in those days. And he couldn't get his airplane started the next morning to get out, he and Major Lanphier. So I flew down with Dick Bennett to help him get it started, which we did. They got started eventually and left. There's a picture of, of that was in the paper with Lindbergh and myself.
Wanda: Yes.
Mr. Link: There’s also one over in the gallery of—a—
Mrs. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin.
Mr. Link: Scotch ‘n Sirloin, downstairs there they’ve got one someplace.
Mrs. Link: I also mentioned the women pilots, Ruth Elder and Amelia Earhart.
Mr. Link: Ruth Law was one of, was one of the first pilots here, and she came here before I was flying. And it must have been... oh, I can’t say, around 19—a ‘16, ‘18, and landed out here on what was Kilmer’s place there, then, the horse-training track. And she was one of the first pilots to—a ever fly out of Binghamton. [Tape'ends.]
[Tape 2]
Mr. Link: They put up a prize for the first airplane to fly from New York to Chicago, or Chicago to New York, I forget which way, and she flew an old Curtis Pusher there, where you sat out in front. There wasn’t any cockpit around it, but she and Lincoln Beachey were the first two pilots—Lincoln Beachey was the first one I know about. A—Ruth Law would be the second and then after that came Basil Rowe and those that I’ve ment—already mentioned, Earl Southee, you know. There was also Catherine Stinson. She landed someplace out in Chenango, not Chenango Bridge, but Hillcrest. And she cracked up three times tryin’ to, or while she was here—was here about two months rebuilding the airplane and then she’d crack it up again.
Wanda: Typical woman driver, right?
Mr. Link: Well it was the airplane’s fault, I think. She was pretty good to fly it.
Mrs. Link: What about Amelia Earhart? You came up from Washington, she came up with you, didn’t she?
Mr. Link: Yes. Amelia Earhart was just, recently had learned to fly and she was, wanted to learn to fly instruments. And I had one of the early instrument-equipped planes. I was down in Washington and some way or other I got connected, I don’t know, and she flew from…
Mrs. Link: I was thinking that it was—a, that it was Captain Weems. That she was down there getting some navigation instruction.
Mr. Link: No, that was another woman. I don’t remember just how I got connected there, but I was flying from Washington to New York City and she wanted to go up, and I said, “Well, come ahead and get in and I'll show you what l know about instrument pilots and instrument planes, what you need.” And so she did. And then she went out later, to Paul Mantz out on the west coast who—in the meantime these trainers were taking hold and people were buying trainers—and took instrument flying time to fly the instruments, from Paul Mantz in a Link trainer, to start with.
Wanda: Oh. So she originally had her instrument training from the…
Mr. Link: Well, I didn't, I couldn't exactly say I taught her anything about instrument flying, but I did show her how it was done.
Wanda: Yeah. What—a, what was she like?
Mr. Link: She was a very nice person. I was well-impressed with her. She was one of the most retiring of the women aviators. Others that came along afterwards, they were somewhat—a—
Mrs. Link: Careful.
Mr. Link: —noisier and so forth. Like there was this woman that…
Mrs. Link: Never mind.
Mr. Link: OK. Let's get off the women pilots. But I didn't have too much respect for most women pilots, at the time.
Wanda: Well, they were…
Mr. Link: But I did Amelia Earhart. She was a very nice woman, very modest, very quiet and very able.
Wanda: I always got the impression that she really loved flying.
Mr. Link: And she really loved flying, yeah.
Wanda: What was it fascinated you about flying? Do you remember your first incident with an airplane? Do you remember the first time you saw one, or…
Mr. Link: Well the first time I flew was out in California. I was out there—a and I flew and then started taking lessons with Sidney Chaplin, who was Charlie Chaplin's brother. Then I couldn't continue that because I didn't have money to and my family stopped me, when they heard about it, but I—a always enjoyed flying. I felt there was a future in it.
Wanda: And you were right.
Mr. Link: At that time there were no airlines, no—hardly anything for flying schools except something like Charlie [sic] Chaplin. He established it out there where the Ambassador Hotel is now, in California.
Wanda: Is that right?
Mr. Link: And—a the movie actors and actresses had more money than anybody else and they were a little more interested in learning to fly, so he started an aviation school out there. And that was the first flying lessons I took, was in 1920, but it was 1926 before I really got into flying and seriously went through it and soloed an airplane.
Wanda: Well, can you think of anything else you'd like to put on here for…
Mr. Link: I don't think of anything.
Wanda: I think I've taken up quite a bit of your time.
Mr. Link: And that was a long time ago.
Mrs. Link: You've got a lot of—record there.
Wanda: Yes, and I certainly want to thank you for all of your time and our recollections, both of you.
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